Open Forum January 30, 2010 at Catallaxy Files

Open Forum January 30, 2010

533 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

January 30th, 2010 at 9:11 am

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533 Responses to 'Open Forum January 30, 2010'

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A new blog/news service site has started up today. Menzies House is touting itself as ‘The number one Australian site for conservative, centre-right and liberatarian thinkers’. Well, we’ll see. In the meantime I have agreed to post some stuff over there as has John Humphreys.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:15 am
I only recently noticed the top banner that says “Australia’s leading libertarian and centre-right blog.” What is that based on? Just wondering.

Capitalist Piggy

30 Jan 10 at 9:41 am
Preemptive competition. inter alia

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:43 am
I’m thinking of adding the word “Still”

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:45 am
Well, with it’s featuring a Monckton video and Patrick Michaels, it’s not off to an encouraging start as far as I’m concerned.

steve from brisbane

30 Jan 10 at 9:51 am
What’s wrong with Michaels?

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:53 am
The long list of Rudd failures continues:

Government green loans scheme ‘close to collapse’.

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 11:22 am
Menzies House is up and running.

Michael Sutcliffe

30 Jan 10 at 11:23 am
Menzies House is up and running.

Michael Sutcliffe

30 Jan 10 at 11:24 am
That’ll teach me not the read the thread first!!

Michael Sutcliffe

30 Jan 10 at 11:25 am
“The long list of Rudd failures continues.”

Does such a list actually exist? And is it being regularly updated? Would be fun to read and reminisce, my memory not being what it once was.

Capitalist Piggy

30 Jan 10 at 11:39 am
We would like to think of ourselves as not being in competition, but rather a coalition with excellent sites like Catallaxy Files! Thanks John and Sinclair for your contributions so far, look for your site on our new blogroll that will go up in a day or two…

Cheers, Chris Browne
Editor-in-Chief of Menzies House

Menzies House

30 Jan 10 at 11:40 am
Rudd jumped the shark to me when he tried to get the alcopops tax enforced extra constitutionally.

Not a fine moment for Governance. This from a man who doesn’t think it’s his role to preach to young people either…

I’ll jump on the Menzies House bandwagon when it and the Liberal party produce a liberal policy.

Semi Regular Libertarian

30 Jan 10 at 11:47 am
I don’t know who wrote the possible responses to Menzies House illegal immigration poll, but they suck.

Infidel Tiger

30 Jan 10 at 11:58 am
Does such a list actually exist? And is it being regularly updated?

Good idea. Something for CL is start on. We can all contribute.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 12:00 pm
Fascinating:

Popular Mechanics: How to Fall 35,000 Feet—And Survive.

I didn’t know there was anyone who actually did this for real:

The ultimate learn-by-doing experience might be a lesson from Japanese parachutist Yasuhiro Kubo, who holds the world record in the activity’s banzai category. The sky diver tosses his chute from the plane and then jumps out after it, waiting as long as possible to retrieve it, put it on and pull the ripcord. In 2000, Kubo—starting from 9842 feet—fell for 50 seconds before recovering his gear.

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 12:03 pm
From my perspective (as another Menzies House editor), MH and Catallaxy have different audiences, and different aims. Catallaxy is undoubtedly Australia’s best free market economics blog, and we certainly wouldn’t wish to compete there. MH is structured a lot more broadly in terms of issues, as well as has a much more liberal editorial policy – essentially anyone can submit posts. Plus, we seek to be probably more political in terms of content, like conservativehome in the UK. So it’s quite different to Catallaxy, and rather than being in competition, I think is quite complimentary.

(Also, @Semi Regular Libertarian – MH is not affiliated with the Liberal Party, it’s quite independent – there are quite a few posts coming in the next few days that will be highly critical of Liberal Party policy, and we’ll also be having posts advocating for the LDP etc).

Essentially MH intends to be a very very broad centre-right ‘movement’ type blog. Hopefully we’ll succeed.

Tim Andrews

30 Jan 10 at 12:04 pm
Didn’t we start on a Rudd list in December?

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 12:08 pm
Yeah, we did here but the comments aren’t working.

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 12:11 pm
Here is CLs list from December
The GroceryWatch debacle.
The FuelWatch debacle.
The Friday parliamentary sitting debacle.
The unlimitd bank deposit guarantee debacle.
Promising to arrest Japan and save the whales.
Promising to help end the nuclear arms race.
Offending India on multiple occasions.
The Asian EU debacle.
Pink batts introduced, three dead.
Julia Gillard Memorial Toilets.
The $900 pokies and prostitutes hand-out.
The ETS/Copenhagen debacle.
The Bush telephone leak debacle.
Stalking Barack Obama.
Giving press conferences outside church.
The Mary Mackillop bandwagon debacle.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 12:19 pm
Mick of Wiley Park has written this and posted it at Bolt’s place. Its very good.

You know that it would be untrue
The IPCC would be a liar
If they said ‘its peer-reviewed’
And try to fool all the deniers
Come on, don’t you lie for Gaia
Come on, don’t you lie for Gaia
Climategate should get them fired

‘The time for a debate is through
The planet’s gonna catch on fire
Climate Change is real and true’
But its their teeth they’re lyin’ through
Come on, don’t you lie for Gaia
Come on, don’t you lie for Gaia
Don’t you know we’re sick and tired?

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 12:30 pm
Bolt goes a step further than Rafe did in December.

“…Kevin Rudd may be our most disastrous Prime Minister since even before Whitlam.”

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 1:01 pm
You know that it would be untrue
The IPCC would be a liar

Appropriate, it is based on “Light my Fire”, The Doors.

John H.

30 Jan 10 at 1:10 pm
Crazy Krugman: Obama a “deficit peacock,” US needs much more spending, much bigger deficits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/opinion/29krugman.html

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 1:19 pm
Show trial off:

9/11 trials to be moved from NYC.

“White House abandons plans to try alleged mastermind in Manhattan.”

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 1:25 pm
Sinclair: what’s wrong with Michaels? The Sourcewatch article on him is enough for me:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_J._Michaels

If its first posts means that Menzies House thinks it’s now “conservative”, “Centre Right” or “libertarian” to disbelieve AGW, I’ll pass thanks.

steve from brisbane

30 Jan 10 at 2:11 pm
If Pachauri survives it will be a remarkable achievement:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7009081.ece

BTW, Steve from B, where do the first posts “disbelieve AGW”? Are you now conflating AGW with catastrophic AGW? This smells of desperation.

dover_beach

30 Jan 10 at 2:56 pm
Paulson: Russian and China plotted 2008 GSE collapse.

Mmm.

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 3:12 pm
Cuckoo: “If the Greens had their way, that’s what we’d all be living in. Except, without the toilet.”

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 3:43 pm
“Russia proposed to China that the two nations should sell Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bonds in 2008 to force the US government to bail out the giant mortgage-finance companies, former US Treasury secretary Hank Paulson has claimed.”

“The allegation is in his memoir On the Brink in which he also suggests that Alistair Darling, the UK chancellor, blocked a rescue takeover of Lehman Brothers by Barclays Bank when he refused to support special treatment by UK regulators.”

Paulson is deluding himself. The US and Europe had a productivity crisis, precipitating as early as March 2007, which saw the onset of falling labour demand, and hence, the inability to service risky loans etc.

Semi Regular Libertarian

30 Jan 10 at 4:24 pm
SourceWatch is hardly a credible source of information.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 6:33 pm
Sinc – do you have a copy of what you wrote on Fair Trade? It’s something I’ve been meaning to look at.

ken nielsen

30 Jan 10 at 7:33 pm
Menzies House reads like a young Libs frat party.

Pass the chockies someone

rog

30 Jan 10 at 7:50 pm
Ken – the lastest thing I wrote with Tim Wilson is here. More generally look here.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 8:08 pm
They ate chocolates at “frat parties” in the 30s did they, Rog?

C.L.

30 Jan 10 at 8:41 pm
Menzies House reads like a young Libs frat party.
.
because they’re live-blogging a young libs event? Cheap shot, rog.

daddy dave

30 Jan 10 at 9:11 pm
Dave – live blogging a young libs conference?? FFS. Live blogging the tennis I could understand.

Let me add to that. Live blogging the LDP conference would be interesting, but the young libs are too mainstream and would be covered by the MSM. Not edgy enough.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:18 pm
I guess it is kinda lame.
rog I take it back. as you were…

daddy dave

30 Jan 10 at 9:32 pm
On that note Serena Williams won the womens singles. The game was closer than the final score line suggests IMHO.

Sinclair Davidson

30 Jan 10 at 9:53 pm
People by now are more than aware that Homer keeps referring to a so -called liquidity trap in the US .

Here’s Barron’s economics editor putting the kabosh on that crap.

?i?IF CONSUMER CREDIT IS DEAD, why doesn’t it lie down? The stock of consumer credit declined in November for the 10th straight month. Data due out Friday will no doubt confirm another decline in December. But then, why have recent months shown an increase in the sale of such big-ticket items as cars, furniture and jewelry?

Consumers could hardly be acquiring these durables on an all-cash basis, a neat trick when cash is short. But the decline in the stock of credit has been taken as self-evident proof that credit can’t be flowing. As already explained in his space, however (see “Economic Beat,” Dec. 14, for the latest review of the “bathtub analogy”), this confuses stock with flow. The retirement of old debt from the relative boom of a few years ago has been causing an unusual amount of credit to flow out. This factor has mainly driven the decline in the stock of consumer credit. And that’s hardly evidence that consumers are starved for credit, even though it’s been used as such.

But now that the sale of durables has been showing signs of life, purveyors of the credit-crunch myth should start asking themselves a challenging question: If consumers are starved for credit, why aren’t we seeing weakness in the sale of consumer durables?

In fact, we are seeing a certain amount of strength. The stock of consumer credit in fourth quarter ’09 was noticeably below the same quarter a year ago. If that truly was evidence of a decline in new extensions of credit, we’d expect to see a decline in the purchase of consumer durables over the same period. But according to the fourth-quarter GDP report, consumer spending on “durable goods” was up 2.9% from the same quarter a year ago in nominal dollars. Similarly, economist Jason Benderly tracks consumer spending on durable goods that adds to the estimate both the full value of used-car sales and the retail purchase of building materials for home improvement. Given the steady decline in consumer credit through the second half of last year, you’d expect to find a decline in spending on consumer durables. But instead Benderly finds a 6.1% annual increase through the second half.

When the December figure on consumer credit gets released Friday, might lamentations finally cease about a credit crunch on consumers? Don’t hold your breath.?/i?

JC1

30 Jan 10 at 11:05 pm
Let me add to that. Live blogging the LDP conference would be interesting, but the young libs are too mainstream and would be covered by the MSM. Not edgy enough.

I can’t believe that anybody would seriously live blog a Young Libs conference, unless it’s to support Abbott’s point and prove that his side very obviously take their virginity seriously.

THR

31 Jan 10 at 12:02 am
I would think the only two worse things live blogging Young Libs would be blogging Young Lab and most certainly the Greens Party conference when Christine Milne imparts her knowledge.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 12:45 am
Come on JC, what the Young Libs expound on is an Andrew Bolt column translated by Google into Portuguese, then translated back into English, and then written up as a speech for Australia’s most illiterate and committed virgins. They’re living proof that mental retardation and social repulsivity is possibly much higher in private schools.

THR

31 Jan 10 at 1:12 am
1:49pm – Menzies House just sat through a rendition of God Save the Queen by the Young Liberals before they passed a motion supporting a four day weekend to celebrate the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee in 2012.

Why, it’s like Woodstock, this thing…

THR

31 Jan 10 at 1:14 am
All the stuff on Rudd is still pretty small beer. He’s a damp squib and a mediocrity to be sure, but still not a train wreck. To arrive at Whitlam levels of lunacy he’d have to do something like send someone from the League of Rights on a loan-seeking mission to Tehran, which is basically what Saint Gough did when Saddam was still in charge of Iraq.

Michael Fisk

31 Jan 10 at 1:17 am
Really? They passed the resolution? What happens if she dies before the date?

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 1:17 am
Live blogging the LDP conference would be interesting

Only if Bird were participating. The MSM would surely take notice of THAT.

Michael Fisk

31 Jan 10 at 1:18 am
But I hope nobody would seriously suggest that the Labor Party of Conroy’s Opus Dei pals and Kevin Rudd is any groovier than the Young Liberals.

I wouldn’t call $42 billion blown on a useless “stimulus” small beer, though, Fisk. That’s a yard glass of catastrophe even in Whitlam’s terms.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:10 am
There will be a post on Menzies House about the LDP conference and why so many people are joining the LDP up shortly – unfortunately, it was before we launched so we couldn’t live blog it – but if anyone wants to in the future, please do!

Tim Andrews

31 Jan 10 at 7:43 am
So Tim, when will Malcolm Turnbull be writing for the Menzies Centre?

rog

31 Jan 10 at 9:32 am
JC – you’re missing the point a 4-day weekend in 2012 in honor of the queen works too . In previous years the young libs have passed motions to have Malcolm Fraser expelled from the party and called for legislation that drivers over the age of 70 have a big G stcket on the car to war other drivers.

Sinclair Davidson

31 Jan 10 at 9:44 am
Menzies House
.
What is the least bit libertarian about Menzies? He tried to ban a political party, kissed the Queen’s arse and squandered the, up ’til then, longest boom in world history with pro-Squatter protectionist bollocks. I’m going over there. I want to find me the protestant Currency Lad.
.
And bring back Plantagenet I say. He’s the rightful heir and true. His kids aren’t mongies… and he’s a Republican.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 10:30 am
In previous years the young libs have passed motions to have Malcolm Fraser expelled from the party

Oh. Well my opinion has changed. They can’t be all that bad if they can pass resolutions like that.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 11:09 am
What do you have against Fraser? Just curious.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 11:17 am
“And bring back Plantagenet I say. He’s the rightful heir and true. His kids aren’t mongies… and he’s a Republican.”

Yea…Prince Michael of Jerilderie. I suggest that we support the true King as he would turn over his prerogatives to his “subjects”.

God Save the King!

I am very uncomfortable with the LDP being marketed as centre right. George W Bush was “centre right”, which was slightly economically more right wing than Gore and and being uncomfortable about gays having the same rules as everyone else on inheritance.

Semi Regular Libertarian

31 Jan 10 at 11:55 am
Adrien:

He was the first breed of conservatives given the chance to reform their economy in the 70′s but he was too gutless to move ahead so we basically wasted 7 years until Hawke showed up and did the heavy lifting for the fucker.

Showing he has no anchor in his beliefs he’s now the epitome of a doctor’s wife.

I find him despicable.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 12:00 pm
Kissed the Queen’s arse? No prime minister in Australian history has smooched buttocks with more passion than Paul Keating French-kissing General Suharto’s butt. And isn’t there a lefty think tank named after Curtin – the man who loved White Australia, introduced conscription and became Douglas Macarthur’s personal poodle?

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 12:39 pm
From the politically correct capital of the world, the UK:

City council issues ‘inclusive’ taxi driver licence applications… in BRAILLE.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 12:47 pm
The UK seems to be really fucked up. I don’t see much hope for it any more when you read shit like this…. it doesn’t seem to be infrequent either as there’s stuff like this happening too often to make it an outside thing.

It’s like a 1/3 of the country is populated by Homer wannabes.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 12:53 pm
Epic fail:

Cold keeps Minnesota wind turbines from spinning.

Wind turbines placed in cities across Minnesota to generate power aren’t working because of the cold temperatures.

The Minnesota Municipal Power Association bought 11 turbines for $300,000 each from a company in Palm Springs, Calif.

Special hydraulic fluid designed for colder temperatures was used in the turbines, but it’s not working, so neither are the turbines.

There is a plan to heat the fluid, but officials must find a contractor to do the work.

I guess they’ll need some electricity to heat the fluid to make the propellers work to save on electricity.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 12:54 pm
All roads lead to Bush Was Right Ville:

Guantanamo eyed for 9/11 trial.

The trial of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed won’t be held in lower Manhattan and could take place in a military tribunal at Guantanamo Bay, sources said last night.

Military tribunal at Gitmo, hey?

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 1:01 pm
Credit where credit’s due. The My School thing is his first positive accomplishment. Seems to be working just as it should:

PARENTS rocked by the My School website have already begun pulling their children out of poorly performing schools.

At the same time, principals from Sydney schools that rate highly on the Federal Government website have received dozens of calls from parents wanting to transfer their children…

Public School Principals Forum chairperson Cheryl McBride said parents were already removing their children from schools that recorded poor numeracy and literacy results.

Now the crappy schools have to lift their game or else.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 1:24 pm
I’m not at all sure school testing is a workable proposition and in fact could actually distort decision-making and hinder better outcomes.

I reckon that a badly run public school even with shitty teachers could have a better outcome than a very well run school in the western burbs in melb or Sydney. The fact is that say Melbourne or Sydney high will do better than western burb school even if Melb/Syd high are worse run.

Now the western burb school could have better teaches, but humans being what they are (with differences not stopping at the neck) amy not show up in the raw results and cause worse outcomes with everyone being unhappy.

This is why vou need voucherization, as it’s the parents that would be able to best gauge how the school is performing in getting the best out of little Johnny who could be really smart or as thick as two short planks.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 1:39 pm
Has anyone heard of Rosegate?

Tim Lambert is trying to start this up by head-kicking some poor journalist.

The journalist’s name is David Rose. David should be made aware just who Lambert is……. was referred to as an intellectual hoon and at various sites.

David simply needs to google Lambert and see what other sites say about the poisonous cherub.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 1:51 pm
there’s stuff like this happening too often
.
It seems like every week there’s some new PC-fascist outrage from Britain. Swirls on ice cream banned because it looks like allah in arabic… children taken from their parents and put in foster homes because they’re fat… it’s never ending. Someone should be compiling a list.
At some point they’ll stop reporting this stuff because it will be Dog Bites Man. Standard operating procedure.

daddy dave

31 Jan 10 at 2:07 pm
I’m not at all sure school testing is a workable proposition and in fact could actually distort decision-making and hinder better outcomes.
.
maybe, but since we have a highly regulated education system, a market with contrived, artificial indicators is better than no market at all.

daddy dave

31 Jan 10 at 2:10 pm
JC, vouchers and better info would obviously be the best combo, I agree. But look, this is a minor breakthrough and the fact that Labor did it means the trajectory has been established and it’s up to the Libs to take it to the next level.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 2:12 pm
That’s possibly true, Cl. Good points. I only hope it works out that way

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 2:33 pm
Good piece by David Brooks in the NY Times about political populism mentioning how America was built by anti-populists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/opinion/26brooks.html?em

As he says, it’s easy to blame Goldman Sachs for your itchy toe avoiding the complex interplay of forces that caused the GFC.

JC1

31 Jan 10 at 2:36 pm
Hide the corrections to the Stern Report:

http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-quiet-post-publication-changes-to.html

dover_beach

31 Jan 10 at 2:36 pm
Climate stasis continues according to HadCRUT data:

The HadCrut least squares trend computed starting Jan 2001 remains negative (-0.08C/decade) but if positive if computed beginning in Jan 2000 (+0.03C/decade).

http://rankexploits.com/musings/2010/hadcrut-december-down-from-november/

dover_beach

31 Jan 10 at 2:40 pm
This stuff has no end:

UN climate claims based on student’s essay: report

Michael Sutcliffe

31 Jan 10 at 2:45 pm
He was the first breed of conservatives given the chance to reform their economy in the 70’s
.
Menzies? Why not? Unfashionable economics?
.
but he was too gutless to move ahead so we basically wasted 7 years until Hawke showed up and did the heavy lifting for the fucker.
.
Whitlam tried lowering tariffs remember? Fraser represented the Squatters. I think they were the basis of the Protectionist Party.
.
Showing he has no anchor in his beliefs he’s now the epitome of a doctor’s wife.
.
Yeah that’s the nice part of liberalism.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 3:09 pm
On the MySchool issue, I think most parents have a lot of data about their local schools, but it is often incomplete, anecdotal, or contains black spots. For me, the website is a great way to track any worrying outliers, or to validate any ‘hunches’ or suspicions a parent might have, or gossip that is going around. Most of the concerns about the site are valid, but can best be allayed by more and more information.

Peter Patton

31 Jan 10 at 3:10 pm
Actually, the epitome of a doctor’s wife is er, another doctor.

Peter Patton

31 Jan 10 at 3:13 pm
Warmenism is pretty much finished. It’s time now for people like Kevin Rudd, Ross Garnaut, Tim Flannery etc to formally apologise to the Australian people.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:15 pm
Warmenism is pretty much finished.
.
Unless we are cooking the planet and then it ain’t. AGW was a viable theory, I believe, before the IPCC came into existence.
.
But never mind.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 3:18 pm
No prime minister in Australian history has smooched buttocks with more passion than
.
I think Bob’s up in heaven (the Protestant bit) feeling a little hurt Currency Lad.
.
Paul Keating French-kissing General Suharto’s butt.
.
Egad man! I’m to luncheon momentarily. Are you determined to destroy my appetite? Yikes!

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 3:21 pm
Global coldening was a “viable theory” in the 1970s.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:21 pm
And apparently the idea that this meagre rock was the centre of the Cosmos was viable c.1600 for some reason.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 3:24 pm
Adrien, a few years ago Lefty Kim argued that Mild Colinial Boy was the protestant Currency Lad.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:24 pm
Colonial.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:25 pm
That’s the trouble with the Protestants, they’re too mild, like.
.
Personally it’d be good if AGW was a crock. It’s a drag.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 3:26 pm
From MCB’s self-description:

He is a Reactionary Queenslander, a Fervent Monarchist, an Anglophile, a Pessimist, a Sectarian Protestant (Lutheran), an Anti-Egalitarian Elitist, a Traditional Conservative, a Male Chauvinist, a Modern-day Luddite, an Intolerant Prig, a Terrible Snob and, on occasion, a Pompous Oaf with the unfortunate habit of speaking about himself in the third person.

His interests include: Fearing God and Honouring the King, Being Intolerant and Judgemental, Keeping a Stiff Upper Lip, Playing the Game (and with a Straight Bat), Setting High Standards, Having Fine Discriminating Tastes, Knowing One’s Place, Giving Foreign Johnnies Some Stick, Looking Down One’s Nose at the Hoi polloi (?? ??????), Deferring to One’s Betters, Noblesse Oblige, Declaiming “O Tempora! O Mores!”, Bemoaning the Decline of The West, Defending the British Empire, Defending The Permanent Things, Opposing Popery and other Heresies, Repealing Female Suffrage, Repealing Universal Male Suffrage, Condescending to the Fair Sex, Fighting the Red Menace, Applauding Privilige & Elitism & Inequality, and Restoring the Gallows & the Gibbet & the Lash.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 3:27 pm
AGW was a viable theory, I believe, before the IPCC came into existence.
.
That’s true; but since then the debate has been frozen; the conclusions rigged. If it wasn’t for the IPCC, the theory may have fizzled out a decade ago. We don’t know. The corruption is not consequence-free in terms of where the science stands today.

daddy dave

31 Jan 10 at 3:29 pm
I have no clue about where the temperature is headed, but for my family I am going with it is US who have to adjust, not the biosphere.

Peter Patton

31 Jan 10 at 3:34 pm
We have been checking out digs in Tasmania. It is amazing what equity in Sydney property will buy down there.

Peter Patton

31 Jan 10 at 3:37 pm
@rog – Malcolm Turnbull is certainly welcome to write for MH if he so wishes.
@Adrian – the point of naming the site after Menzies was not that he was a libertarian, but rather that he unified the non-left forces in Australia together; hence the point of the site is to bring together disperate non-left people

And if anyone else here thinks the articles we have up so far suck, there’s a great way to change that – submit something yourself! We’d love more critical articles!

Tim Andrews

31 Jan 10 at 3:47 pm
Excuse my scepticism:

“Individual enterprise must drive us forward. That does not mean that we are to return to the old and selfish notions of laissez-faire. The functions of the State will be much more than merely keeping the ring within which the competitors will fight. Our social and industrial obligations will be increased. There will be more law, not less; more control, not less.” Robert Menzies ‘The Forgotten People’ (1943)

Semi Regular Libertarian

31 Jan 10 at 3:57 pm
With the IPCC repeatedly using junk science to promote global warming, the sad consequence of all this will be the discrediting of science generally. Thanks to these zealots, if there really is a cause for environmental concern requiring urgent action in the future, it will be much harder than usual to get the public and politicians on board. They will recall what happened the last time a group of wild-eyed “scientists”, waving scary graphs and research papers, prophesised doom. Heckuva job, IPCC.

Michael Fisk

31 Jan 10 at 3:59 pm
And if anyone else here thinks the articles we have up so far suck
.
I don’t think your site sucks. In fact I wish you well.

daddy dave

31 Jan 10 at 4:10 pm
MCB’s self-description
.
No wonder he’s pessimistic. I’d be downright suicidal.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 4:35 pm
essentially anyone can submit posts
.
Except Graeme Bird approx 3 mins after he finds out about you.
.
Good luck Tim.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 4:37 pm
There will be more law, not less; more control, not less.
.
So he’s a Keynsian like everyone else in the early 40s bar the Soviets and the Nazis (Homer don’t). Something about luck and mediocrity from some book what some latte sipping pinko comes to mind. I forget exactly what.
.
I reckon the libs in the Livs’ll have to wait to get a less socialistic conservative to name their blog. After all the Young Libs only started admitting libertarians exist 5 minutes ago.

Adrien

31 Jan 10 at 4:40 pm
The YL’s (and liberal students especially) have a much stronger libertarian streak than most people give them credit for…

Tim Andrews

31 Jan 10 at 4:54 pm
Does Bird, the libertarian support industry planning?

In a word yes, as long as industry policy he approves. Any other form he disapproves and you could very well end end up being “mass sacked” which is really a euphemism for mass executions commie style.

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/the-new-world-order-communist-conspiracy-is-far-more-prosaic-than-you-think/#comment-27158

JC

31 Jan 10 at 5:35 pm
Actually JC it’s worth Googling “Joe Cambria” for a few laughs.

[Edited. Let's not start an blogging war or legal disputes. Sinc]

rog

31 Jan 10 at 5:51 pm
JC – I told you stop reading that. You’ll go blind.

ken nielsen

31 Jan 10 at 6:26 pm
Googling Rog is a hoot. Rog, do you still maintain that “100 percent” of Labor party members are Jew-hating Nazis?

Yes or no?

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 7:01 pm
CL, JC, rog – please no more of this. Let’s move on. Let each thread be its own debate.

Sinclair Davidson

31 Jan 10 at 7:05 pm
Sinclair:

I’m not starting any of this and have carefully avoided talking to him for the past few days. Take a look.

It seems as though he gets off his medications and then goes crazy. He’s just a crazed troll.

JC

31 Jan 10 at 7:24 pm
So how are we this evening?

tal

31 Jan 10 at 7:44 pm
IPCC fraud, Pachauri, has published a sex novel:

In breathless prose that risks making Dr Pachauri, who will be 70 this year, a laughing stock among the serious, high-minded scientists and world leaders with whom he mixes, he details sexual encounter after sexual encounter.

The book, which makes reference to the Kama Sutra, starts promisingly enough as it tells the story of a climate expert with a lament for the denuded mountain slopes of Nainital, in northern India, where deforestation by the timber mafia and politicians has “endangered the fragile ecosystem”.

But talk of “denuding” is a clue of what is to come.

By page 16, Sanjay is ready for his first liaison with May in a hotel room in Nainital.

Yeah, when people think of ‘climate experts’ like Al Gore, the Kama Sutra comes to mind every time.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 8:38 pm
Good Tal. Just having a quiet night, tending to the elephants. How are you?

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 8:38 pm
Same same CL,I can see them stomping Dr Pach any day now.

tal

31 Jan 10 at 8:46 pm
Oops, just refreshed the main page and saw that Sinclair has already referenced Pachauri’s ~~bodice~~ sari ripper.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 8:46 pm
Same same CL,I can see them stomping Dr Pach any day now.

No no, Tal. I would like to see Doc. Pach holding in there for a few years at least.

JC

31 Jan 10 at 8:49 pm
OK JC we’ll see what we can do about that,but it`s the elephants that run the show

tal

31 Jan 10 at 8:56 pm
I tell you now CL if May and Sandjay have a cocktail with ICE at this hotel all bets are off

tal

31 Jan 10 at 9:09 pm
I just hope Patch’s fellow warmenist scammer, Al Gore, doesn’t read the book and get any ideas. If he tries some of the gear in the Kama Sutra, he could end up squashing Tipper.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 9:26 pm
Tipper was a MILF in her day…

Sinclair Davidson

31 Jan 10 at 9:28 pm
Tipper was a “let’s censor everything” gal Sinc.Oh how you males will set your principals aside for a pretty face or a nice body

tal

31 Jan 10 at 9:37 pm
Males have no principles on some matters, Tal, alas. I myself would join the ALP and become a climate change protester for Kate Ellis.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 9:43 pm
Shallow gits

tal

31 Jan 10 at 9:46 pm
Heard her talk, CL. Talk about valley girl. She’s a bit of an airhead.

She studied international relations at Flinders University where she was General Secretary of the Students Association and an editor of Empire Times, although she did not finish a degree. A member of the Australian Labor Party, she worked as a research officer for state and federal parliamentarians. She was a ministerial adviser to South Australian state minister Rory McEwen and then for the Deputy Premier of South Australia, Kevin Foley.

How does one study “internatal” relations? Moreover how the fuck do you not finish that degree especially if you’re a leftie as it’s made for cliche ridden drivel.

JC

31 Jan 10 at 9:48 pm
Joe, CL is thinking with his d**k,now Lad I love ya but you would join the ALP and beleive in GW ????

tal

31 Jan 10 at 9:54 pm
Naaaaah, not really, Tal. I might put in a sullen appearance at a party barbecue and wear a polar bear t-shirt but that’s about it.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 9:58 pm
Thank the Lord CL oh Bless

tal

31 Jan 10 at 10:03 pm
Tal Tal, ye of so little faith.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 10:25 pm
Amusing: latest from Andrew Klavan…

‘Liberal Fantasies vs. Reality: Can You Spot The Difference?’

http://viralfootage.com/?p=5369

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 10:27 pm
Incredible video: “A dump truck driver in Turkey forgets to drop his truck bed and obliterates a pedestrian bridge over a highway. Two people were injured, but everyone survived.” Even that person on the left of the bridge – who stops when he realises what’s going to happen.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 10:45 pm
I don’t much like Mild Colonial Boy’s politics but I like his style, and i have to admit, some of his values.

Jason Soon

31 Jan 10 at 11:16 pm
I always assumed that Mild Colonial Boy was an elaborate hoax.

THR

31 Jan 10 at 11:17 pm
Bird’s ‘national planning’

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/the-new-world-order-communist-conspiracy-is-far-more-prosaic-than-you-think/#comment-27158

“I also have a thing about canals and the partial reversal of the enclosure movement” (!!!!)

Jason Soon

31 Jan 10 at 11:24 pm
The leftist conspiracy for global control continues unabated

Data collected by the Bureau of Meteorology indicate that Australia’s annual mean temperature for 2009 was 0.90°C above the 1961-90 average, making it the nation’s second warmest year since high-quality records began in 1910. High temperatures were especially notable in the southeast during the second half of the year, with Australia, Victoria, South Australia and NSW all recording their warmest July-December periods on record.

rog

31 Jan 10 at 11:29 pm
Phil Done is (again) trying to muddy the waters, the fact remains that “..for 161 consecutive days to 20 April 1924 the temperature in the town (Marble Bar) never dropped below 100F (37.8°C)”

Also the record for highest recorded temperature was at Cloncurry,53ºC 1889.

For the states NSW is 50.0°C at Wilcannia 1939 and 50.7°C at Oodnadatta SA 1960. Bourke recorded 52.8°C in 1877 but the recording method has been questioned.

——————–

1.10 EXTREME MAXIMUM TEMPERATURES

New South Wales Wilcannia 50.0°C (11.1.1939)

Victoria Swan Hill 49.4°C (18.1.1908)

Queensland Cloncurry 53.1°C (16.1.1889)

South Australia Oodnadatta 50.7°C (2.1.1960)

Western Australia Mardie 50.5°C (20.2.1998)

Tasmania Bushy Park 40.8°C (26.12.1945); Hobart 40.8C (4.1.1976)

Northern Territory Finke 48.3°C (1 & 2.1.1960)

Australian Capital Territory Canberra (Acton) 42.8°C (11.1.1939)

Source: Bureau of Meteorology.

——————-

- Rog, ridiculing warmenists for their preoccupation with selected temperature “records,” March, 2006.

C.L.

31 Jan 10 at 11:48 pm
Steve Edney:

This guy says he can get energy from salt water by using radio waves.

You’re the resident physicist…. Is this bullshit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zwIVGbVOLU&feature=player_embedded#

The real question is to determine how much energy is being used and if it’s all from the salt water, right?

JC

1 Feb 10 at 2:14 am
“- Rog, ridiculing warmenists for their preoccupation with selected temperature “records,”

I have no problem with the latest BOM advice, what is yours?

rog

1 Feb 10 at 6:44 am
Actually, if you had read the comments at Marohasy, there is this from RC on statistics and this from a BOM person on weather records

rog

1 Feb 10 at 7:04 am
Now I see the link – Pell endorses Plimer who endorses Monckton.

Plimer says that vineyards in old Britain are evidence that it was warmer then than it is today whereas the evidence is that vineyards were always in Britain

Wild vines have grown in Britain for over 50 million years. Only in the Ice Age of the last 2 million have vines retreated from Britain during the glacial maxima, returning during warmer interglacials, such as the present one. The ‘Winelands of Britain’ uses a database of some 500 vineyards ancient and modern, to map the ebb and flow of viticulture correlative with temperature across the British Isles since Roman times.

rog

1 Feb 10 at 7:33 am
rog – how does this help your case? If there have always been vineyards in Britian, then it has always been warmer there than it is now? Is this what you’re suggesting?

Sinclair Davidson

1 Feb 10 at 7:38 am
It appears that it is getting warmer (from the link)

Since the publication of the first edition in 2004 the northern limit of English vineyards has advanced from Mount Pleasant, Lancashire, to Accomb, Yorkshire, within 5km of Hadrian’s Wall.

English Wine note that the only period of non production was during the war years

The period from the end of the First World War to shortly after the end of the Second World War may well be the only time in two millennia that vines to make wine on a substantial scale were not grown in England or Wales. Doubtless, during that time, there were some vines being grown on a garden scale by amateur growers, but for more than 25 years there was a total cessation of viticulture and winemaking on a commercial basis.

rog

1 Feb 10 at 8:20 am
no genetic modiications on the vines allowing them to survive in cooler climates?

Sinclair Davidson

1 Feb 10 at 8:26 am
Tim:
The YL’s (and liberal students especially) have a much stronger libertarian streak than most people give them credit for…
.
There’s a blog post, right there.

daddy dave

1 Feb 10 at 9:06 am
dear god i thought that was a joke, they actually are liveblogging from the YL conference.

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 9:23 am
Climate stasis continues; NODC revise ocean heat content data:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/31/nodc-revises-ocean-heat-content-data/#more-15879

dover_beach

1 Feb 10 at 10:00 am
Predictable green/left approach to private property, confiscate it in the name of “the environment.”

- Rog, March 30, 2006.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 11:15 am
Kudos to Obama for one good policy decision – Arms for Taiwan.

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 11:16 am
“The YL’s (and liberal students especially) have a much stronger libertarian streak than most people give them credit for…”

Yep, then they see the brass ring and give it up.

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 11:18 am
Now I see the link – Pell endorses Plimer who endorses Monckton.

“Go Archbishop Pell.”

- Rog, November 13, 2004.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 11:20 am
Kudos to Obama for one good policy decision – Arms for Taiwan.
.
yes. stripping funds from NASA was another.
although with Taiwan, he’s such a wimp on the foreign policy stuff that he might have squibbed if he knew it would make the Chinese so angry. His knees are probably shaking as we speak.

daddy dave

1 Feb 10 at 11:32 am
I don’t blame people for making big decisions with trepidation.

Bravery is about handling your fears. Stupidity is pretending that risks do not exist.

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 11:35 am
Evidence to warmenists: Tim Lambert shows how it’s done.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 11:36 am
Lambert Watch:

hahahahahahahhaahaahaha

Drawn into dispute at fact-challenged fact-checker Tim Lambert’s scientism site, UK Daily Mail journalist David Rose comments:

I realise that nothing I write here will make a scrap of difference to you.

Lambert – a university lecturer (true!) – responds:

David Rose admits that he has no credibility … in a comment left here David Rose has admitted that he has no credibility, conceding that “nothing I write here will make a scrap of difference”.

This is incredible. The dwarf has the ethics of a pole cat.

In the old days he would have been a pick pocket.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 11:49 am
He’s lamely calling it “Rosegate” – a name which isn’t exactly taking the media by storm.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 12:20 pm
Of course there are researchers and writers in the mainstream of climate science who are of higher stature than Lambert.

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 12:23 pm
paging JC. Bird has written another article dedicated to you

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/lying-filth-joseph-cambria-strikes-againindustry-planning/#comment-27171

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 12:24 pm
Yea I saw it Jason.

The commie lard is pretending he didn’t write about his support for industry policy…. It’s a different kind of policy he says…. this time.

It’s all lies he says… lol.

Funny thing is that we both caught it independently. I think I mentioned his Kim Carr impersonation further up-thread before you wrote about it.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 12:28 pm
Rosegate…. LOL

Of course I alerted Rose to some of Lambert’s ethics which of course is the right thing to do in these situations.

Rose doesn’t know who he is obviously.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 12:30 pm
Oh dear Joe. It looks like Bird’s gone into a full-blown paranoid-schizo psychosis.

BirdLab

1 Feb 10 at 1:48 pm
The YL’s (and liberal students especially) have a much stronger libertarian streak than most people give them credit for
.
When I was a student the ALSF members tended to come in two flavours: Born To Rule stereotype in Country Road shorts (boys) and pearl chokers and scrunchies (girls) and then there was the Heinrich Himmler’s wet dream SS types. There was only one libertarian in the whole bunch. His favourite movie was Mad Max. He thought that’s how the roads should actually work and had an infringement list three metres long to prove it.
.
The rest of ‘em didn’t like him much.
.
I will say the Libs respected free speech more than the ALP generally. But then Kim Jong-il probably does too.

Adrien

1 Feb 10 at 4:37 pm
Graeme Bird’s found the Menzies House site and asks: What’s with the censorship here? After all, we are not communists.
.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Adrien

1 Feb 10 at 4:40 pm
Graeme is going to flip his lid when he finds out that HUMPHREYS is an editor at Menzies House

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 4:44 pm
hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahha.

He’s always had this ,even for him…. this very disturbing sense of jealously against John as John is everything he isn’t.

Can’t you just feel the nuclear fission getting to meltdown stage.

Watch how he’ll attack him now.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 4:53 pm
John…. if you’re reading this good luck with the project and hope it goes well for you.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 4:54 pm
Why are people deifying Menzies in 2010? If he were alive today he would be tarred and feathered as an authoritarian socialist. Though our public discourse would improve immensely.

One of my favorite Menzies rejoinders to a town hall heckler:

Heckler: ‘Ere. Whatta ya gunna do ’bout ‘ousing?

Menzies: Well madam, the first thing I am going to do is put an ‘h’ before it!

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 4:54 pm
Here we go again.

The Greens want immigration cut. They’re up in arms about skilled migration but want humanitarian immigration sustained i.e. to be cold blooded about it let’s take in all the no hopers who have been traumatised by war and are probably going to be welfare dependent but no, we can’t have skilled people ‘buying a place’

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/greens-want-immigration-cut-20100201-n8f8.html

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 4:54 pm
jtfsoon

But are refugees necessarily ‘no hopers’?

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 4:59 pm
This has always been the Greens’ policy. They want to create a significant underclass that will tend to vote Greens, and create social problems that will be managed by Greens-voting social workers and bureaucrats. At the same time, they want to shrink the economy, and as skilled workers have the opposite effect they are thus of no use to the Greens.

Michael Fisk

1 Feb 10 at 4:59 pm
I really find the immigration argument Brown is pushing to be almost obscene.

I would argue this place could hold 300 million people and still not be “full”.

I can’t wait to here Christine Milne chime in as she always adds to the debate in the most unique way.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 5:01 pm
PP
No of course not but statistically they are less likely to do well in the job market compared to the skilled intake. There could be refugees who would qualify for the skilled intake but that’s my point. You don’t close down the skilled intake and replace it exclusively with ‘humanitarian’ arrivals.

Another less politically correct consideration – we’re not talking Einstein fleeing from Nazi Germany here. We’re talking that silly Sheikh Hilaly who was a political refugee from Egypt where his fundie preaching wasn’t tolerated by the authoritarian govt (of course we’re also talking Tamils who might well be a higher quality of refugee)

jtfsoon

1 Feb 10 at 5:02 pm
Yes, I was going to say that the last time our immigration program was handed over to refugees was during the Hawkeating era’s Lebanese Muslims for Votes scandal.

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 5:09 pm
I don’t blame people for making big decisions with trepidation.
.
fair enough; I was making fun of him but my point was that he is overly deferent to dictators, not that he shouldn’t take big decisions seriously. I guess that didn’t come across.

daddy dave

1 Feb 10 at 5:10 pm
They want to create a significant underclass
.
Mission already accomplished.
.
that will tend to vote Greens, and create social problems that will be managed by Greens-voting social workers and bureaucrats. At the same time, they want to shrink the economy, and as skilled workers have the opposite effect they are thus of no use to the Greens.
.
Methinks you see too much method in the madness. From what I’ve seen they don’t think their policies thru that far.

Adrien

1 Feb 10 at 5:24 pm
I have to agree 100% with Adrien! I have this image of Christine Milne and Bob Brown standing around a table covered in black and white photographs of refugee camps in Pakistan, Jordan, Sudan, gleefully rubbing their hands together saying “one day, all these votes will be OURS”!!

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 5:29 pm
Peter,
Unfortunately for the Greens, those people are probably the least likely to vote Green. They know what damage centralised control can bring.

Andrew Reynolds

1 Feb 10 at 6:58 pm
Andrew

That is so right. What few people realize is that the entire history of the ALP (which, by the way, I sometimes vote for, myself) is a history of racism against Asians.

From the White Australia Policy to Calwell’s “two Wongs don’t make a white” to Whitlam’s “Vietnamese Balts” to Keating’s “Mandatory Detention”. That is why Keating chose inbred Lebanese Muslims to stack ALP branches; he knew there was no way he could do that with Asians. So he locked the Asians up in the desert.

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 7:09 pm
Peter,
If you ever get a chance, take a read of David Day’s biography of Andrew Fisher. While Fisher was a good man (and despite Day’s attempts to rationalise it) he was racist to the core and it makes it plain that the ALP was really the driving force behind the early racial legislation of the Commonwealth – insisting upon it as a condition of doing any deal. It just makes me laugh when any ALP (or other Left) functionary tries to say that the racism came from the political Right.

Andrew Reynolds

1 Feb 10 at 7:13 pm
They know what damage centralised control can bring.
.
People from these places have such an in-depth understanding of modern political economy? Wow! My dad knew the damage centralized control can bring. So he voted for Joh. Again and again and again and again.
.
Gerrymander, jury tampering, police state tactics, his own secret police. Didn’t matter. What mattered is the man said he hated socialism.

Adrien

1 Feb 10 at 7:36 pm
Adrien,
Like father, like son?

Andrew Reynolds

1 Feb 10 at 7:40 pm
Peter,
Unfortunately for the Greens, those people are probably the least likely to vote Green. They know what damage centralised control can bring.

haha lol.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 7:44 pm
Like father, like son?
.
In certain ways yes. In others no. He was an engineer, I’m allergic to maths.
.
The last time we discussed politics it was a heated debated about Luke Shaw, the foreman of the Bjelke-Petersen trial. My dad said he was a nice guy and misrepresented in the papers. I knew the guy and the people who set it up to get him on that jury. Didn’t matter. The old man was a clod when it came to anything that didn’t involve numbers.

Adrien

1 Feb 10 at 7:46 pm
Bravery is about handling your fears. Stupidity is pretending that risks do not exist.

And politics is blaming someone else if the risks are realised.

John H.

1 Feb 10 at 7:47 pm
Gerrymander, jury tampering, police state tactics, his own secret police. Didn’t matter. What mattered is the man said he hated socialism.

True but this quintessentially Queensland modus operandi was inaugurated by Labor well before Joh (as was the gerrymander). What Joh really hated was the blocking of progress by NIMBYs, Greenies and urban lay-abouts. He dragged Queensland into the twentieth century and was hated for it by the same St Lucia lefties who praised Stalin in their lecture theatres for modernising Russia.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:16 pm
Fisher’s racial views were pretty much in line with every Prime Minister up to Robert Menzies. The reason he isn’t demonised (despite being the PM when allegedly “genocidal” policies were being carried out against Aborigines) is that he stayed loyal to the ALP throughout his life. Contrast his treatment with Billy Hughes and Joe Lyons. Hughes was of course a warmonger and a nutcase, but Lyons successfully steered Australia out of the Depression, and was praised by none other than John Maynard Keynes. For this he is called a “rat” by ALP court historians.

Michael Fisk

1 Feb 10 at 8:16 pm
Another praiseworthy thing about Menzies that has been officially disappeared – by the house historians of the Humphrey McQueen left as well as the camp followers of historically illiterate former council clerk, Paul Keating – is the extraordinary leadership the Bobster played in building relationships with Asia and re-building a relationship with Japan. This presaged the greadual demolition of the White Australia Policy – which occurred on his watch and with his imprimatur. He was at least two decades ahead of the racist neanderthals of the Labor Party in this respect. Decades later, Keating liked to claim he invented “engagement” with Asia. Menzies was doing that when little Paul and his mates, Leo and Laurie, was in short pants and rocking the roof of some Chinaman’s laundry shop in Bankstown.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:27 pm
were

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:30 pm
PP: I agree about Menzies. See my comment here:

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/01/30/open-forum-january-30-2010/comment-page-4/#comment-9912

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 8:32 pm
Barack Obama deploys the full powers of his professorial intellect and oratorical giftedness to analyse one of the world’s most intractable crises:

“The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries.”

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:34 pm
Menzies was instrumental in developing the SEATO organisation, the lynchpin of South East Asian prosperity. Paul Keating thought that Bangkok, Singapore, KL etc were the “places you flew over on the way to Europe”.

Michael Fisk

1 Feb 10 at 8:35 pm
Saw that, SRL. Note the date: 1943. There wasn’t exactly an audience in those days for freewheeling devolution. People wanted certainty and protection. Can you think why that might have been?

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:36 pm
“The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries.”

Ha ha ha ha! Over to you Keith Olbermann. Keith?

Michael Fisk

1 Feb 10 at 8:36 pm
anyone caught Menzies and Churchill at War on ABC? great doco which presented a not unfavourable view of Menzies’ prescience about not abandoning Singapore, etc in WW2

Jason Soon

1 Feb 10 at 8:39 pm
Jason Soon

I am no expert, but from what I have read about that era, both Menzies and Curtin has some serious long nights of the soul over our geostrategic security in the mid 20th century, in a way no leader during my lifetime has faced.

Peter Patton

1 Feb 10 at 8:45 pm
C.L.,

There is no need to be a prick about things, there is only one person on this blog who has a very altered reality of WWII (we know who he is). It ain’t me but I’ll overlook your unnecessary condescension.

Menzies just doesn’t represent what Menzies house say they are.

The conservatives need libertarians. The reality is the Greens have given the ALP a Senate majority on hard left policies since the 1980s.

“The Dry John Stone Wall Foundation” “Building a Better Society”

Obviously not but there has to be something out there more appealing to libertarians that the conservatives can put up with.

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 8:48 pm
Jason,

Yes I thought it was fairly good. I am more sympathetic to Menzies now. He wasn’t kowtowing to Churchill. He was just too nice to the jerk. Like a wife who thinks their husband “can change”…

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 8:49 pm
There is no need to be a prick about things, there is only one person on this blog who has a very altered reality of WWII (we know who he is). It ain’t me but I’ll overlook your unnecessary condescension.

F. Me.

That’s your response to my polite rebuttal?

To wit: “Saw that, SRL. Note the date: 1943. There wasn’t exactly an audience in those days for freewheeling devolution. People wanted certainty and protection. Can you think why that might have been?”

And who’s the mysterious one person with “a very altered reality of WWII”?

What are you talking about?

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:53 pm
““Saw that, SRL. Note the date: 1943. There wasn’t exactly an audience in those days for freewheeling devolution. People wanted certainty and protection. Can you think why that might have been?””

How the fuck is that polite?

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 8:56 pm
You seem to be getting hysterical.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 8:58 pm
Do you honestly believe in a written conversation with another adult Australian, inferring that they forgot or did not know the Second World War happened/was still raging in 1943 is “polite”?

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 9:03 pm
These things have to go:

Man catches alight after police tasering.

It’s getting to the point where smug and/or overwrought police officers are unwilling or incapable of physically arresting anyone without trying to electrocute them.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 9:05 pm
SRL, you’re the only one being impolite. You’re swearing like Bird and sliming a blog site for using the name of Robert Menzies. You’ve twice argued that your major reason for dismissing Menzies from the pantheon of doctrinally acceptable heroes is that he said something of a robust law and order kind in the middle of a world war.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 9:08 pm
It’s getting to the point where smug and/or overwrought police officers are unwilling or incapable of physically arresting anyone without trying to electrocute them.

Dead right but here’s the big sleeper. I checked out some data on electric shocks and neural damage. Sure enough, the voltage ranges in tasers are certainly sufficient to cause neural damage. Here’s the rub, it is the sort of neural damage that can only be measured with very invasive techniques so it would be almost impossible to prove in court. But it is very well established that minor neural insults can induce a host of symptoms, it just takes 20+ years to become apparent. Tasers should be illegal period.

John H.

1 Feb 10 at 9:09 pm
C.L.,

Do you personally know any cops or security guards?

Physically handling someone is a nightmare. The closer you get, the more risky it is. Cops don’t want to get close, you can get their firearm. Get close to someone of the opposite sex and sexual harassment is a minefield. Patting someone down is extremely risky in terms of edged weapons. Is it worth it getting close? Mundine’s sister got no conviction recorded for assaulting a cop who was trying to arrest someone else who was violent in a pub.

I think you’re right (there are too many brainless authoritarian thugs [take how the Star Hotel riot started for instance] in both groups, the tasers probably are dangerous) but these guys have more pressure on them then what is fair – and they are not all stupid arseholes. It is because the good guys that exist get collectively punished for the mistakes of the stupid arseholes.

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 9:13 pm
“You’re swearing like Bird and sliming a blog site for using the name of Robert Menzies. ”

I swore because you were being incredulous (please answer the question), and Menzies is not a libertarian.

There would be no slime if Menzies himself didn’t say those things.

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 9:15 pm
Got a really big shock today. I hadn’t paid too much attention to this Rockefeller murder in Melbourne over the past week. I was having lunch at a cafe down the down reading the Oz and then the name hit me like a bolt of lightening.

The guy was a client of the firm I worked for years ago in the 80′s and vaguely recall having lunch with him and doing the odd deal when the salespeople weren’t around.

Fme dead. Lord almighty. What a way to go.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 9:33 pm
JC,

What do you reckon about this “Wolf of Wall Street” character?

Semi Regular Libertarian

1 Feb 10 at 9:44 pm
I’m not sure what question you want me to answer, SRL, just as I’m agog about your mysterious reference to “one person” here with “a very altered reality of WWII”?

What are you talking about?

And yes, I do know police officers and I know that police officers of old had to know how to physically arrest somebody. If they can’t do that or want to whine about it, they shouldn’t become police officers. There have always been riots – the ones during the war years, the Depression, the conscription referenda of 1916-17 make the Star Hotel fracas look like a tantrum at the gay mardi gras.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 9:50 pm
SRL:

He sounds as though he worked in a bucket shop that peddled shitty stocks to people guaranteed to lose money as they were hyped sky high.

Didn’t know anything about him until you mentioned it and read a little bit about him.

He worked in a firm based in “Lonk” Island? That’s an almost dead giveaway it was a bucket shop operation. I don’t doubt he made a lot of money as in those days with the tech boom you could sell a trash can that had a electronic device on it for $100 million in an IPO.

I/we could never participate in the tech boom as there was an SEC ruling precluding anyone that worked on Wall Street wasn’t allowed to buy in IPOs.

The firm I worked for also had a 30 day holding period which meant you couldn’t sell stock before 30 days and that was a restriction that could send you to the poor house as some of those stocks moved 50% a day at times.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 10:07 pm
yeah that Rockefeller case is one weird one. done in by some swingers? WTF

Jason Soon

1 Feb 10 at 10:10 pm
Mmm:

‘Iran will deliver telling blow to global powers on Feb. 11?.

US raises stakes on Iran by sending in ships and missiles.

C.L.

1 Feb 10 at 10:19 pm
Bird talking about his 3rd favourite topic – not Cambria, not banking, but Humphreys

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/lying-filth-joseph-cambria-strikes-againindustry-planning/#comment-27213

He tends to live frugally so he doesn’t have to work hard. When he used to come to Sydney he’d doss on Jason’s floor. We went out drinking and you want to be able to kick back and guzzle a bit. And the narcissist drinks almost nothing and talks flat out, not listening to ones point, never allowing one to get these points out, and filling the room with words. He may as well be moderating his blog the way he does it. I was an observer of this rather than being crowded out myself. But even when talking to people about being an agnostic versus an atheist its all the same.

Its a menace to the LDP that he controls the main LDP discussion site, even though he has managed to wash his hands of the hard yards in the party. This is why I have grown remote from the party. Because of the influence he still yields in this way.

Oh the loss! That Bird has grown remote from the party

Jason Soon

1 Feb 10 at 10:27 pm
Is it just me, or do an inordinate number of swingers get offed?

Infidel Tiger

1 Feb 10 at 10:31 pm
Jason;

It could be that some sex thingi they were doing that went awry and the poor dude died while in the act.

Meanwhile the partners panicked chopped him up and barbecued him.

Who knows, it’s really freaking weird. The guy was a big swinging dick in the market trading sense. He had a huge set and was the biggest client currency trader for a time before Kerry Packer moved in and took the title for while.

Kerry said to people that currency trading was the biggest casino in the world at the time. As usually happens, they make some money, get a huge ego, think they know it all and then get their balls handed to them on a silver platter (like Kerry).

Herman was pretty smart though by all accounts.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 10:37 pm
How come a guy who was so rich had to have sex with such ugly scum bags? Couldn’t high priced whores fill his void?

Infidel Tiger

1 Feb 10 at 10:41 pm
There would be no slime if Menzies himself didn’t say those things.
.
during world war two.

daddy dave

1 Feb 10 at 10:44 pm
A small edit and himself could be talking about himself.

And the narcissist drinks almost nothing and talks flat out, not listening to ones point, never allowing one to get these points out, and filling the room with words.

And the narcissist drinks almost the entire out talks flat out, not listening to ones point, never allowing one to get these points out, and filling the room with words.

The last para is Bird. I think he made a typo and was really talking about himself.

This is why I have grown remote from the party. Because of the influence he still yields in this way.

The LDP’s loss is the CPA’s gain me thinks.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 10:44 pm
Rog and Steve, please call your mental health professional. Abbott closes the gap:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/tony-abbott-closes-gap-to-kevin-rudd-newspoll/story-e6frg6n6-1225825683416

Infidel Tiger

1 Feb 10 at 10:51 pm
Dunno Tiger.

Wealth doesn’t mean taste. Take a sqizz at some of the better streets in the cap cities and look at the horror some of the wealthy have created in terms of architectural trash.

look at this for instance…

just picked it out randomly

http://www.kayburton.com.au/index.php?page=Page&load=properties&do=view&id=1540280

The architect and the owners should be sent to Saudi for the regular Friday beheading ritual.

In fact the Saudis could change their death sentences to Australian and Californian architects and clients with horrific taste.

JC

1 Feb 10 at 10:52 pm
Coalition overtakes Labor in Newspoll.

Now we know why Rudd has distanced himself from the “climate change” debacle. His internal polling was telling him to drop it as so much otherwordly blather. It also explains his pep talk to Labor MPs yesterday about the possibility of losing the next election. (Which remains unlikely). Abbott has spooked the government.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 2:37 am
Not the UN?

As food distribution improves, Haitians want U.S to ‘take over’.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 3:10 am
Man, here’s some fine dining right here.

$15,820 for a meat pie. Looks and sounds good too.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 3:20 am
No no no, C.L. The US has stolen Haiti because it has oil and the US wants to use it as a base to attack Venezuela where Chavez is doing a wonderful job, unrecognised by the world’s media.
It’s all explained here by John Pilger
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=564

ken nielsen

2 Feb 10 at 4:58 am
Infidel Tiger: I see that the move in primary vote towards the Liberals came from “other”. From who, I wonder? Labor and Greens primary hasn’t budged, and it’s completely unlikely to as well, given Mr “virginity is a gift”‘s upcoming pronouncements on environmental policy.

If you ask me, this blip is a result of Rudd being on holiday and Abbott having a lot of airtime to himself to look like he’s a go-getter.

steve from brisbane

2 Feb 10 at 8:33 am
“And yes, I do know police officers and I know that police officers of old had to know how to physically arrest somebody.”

Okay C.L., did they operate under the same level of liabilty as officers do now?

In the 1960s etc, just to make sure you know when you’re talking about.

“during world war two.”

Maybe you can also tell me if the Germans or the Japanese were the immediate threat. Because we need more condescending, superfluous sarcasm here…

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 9:30 am
JC: No eaves. I think that is a high architectural crime, if you’re going “conventional”.

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 9:40 am
Also: I don’t think white minimalism and parquetry go particularly well together.

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 9:43 am
An “imposing French provincial family residence” in Toorak JC?

Dear god.

BirdLab

2 Feb 10 at 10:14 am
Oh. I’ve just caught the exterior.

The horror.

BirdLab

2 Feb 10 at 10:15 am
You’re an odd “libertarian,” SRL. You slime Robert Menzies as the anti-Christ but passionately defend police torture of citizens.

C,L.

2 Feb 10 at 11:36 am
New scandal engulfing Phil Jones:

Leaked climate change emails scientist ‘hid’ data flaws.

Phil Jones, the beleaguered British climate scientist at the centre of the leaked emails controversy, is facing fresh claims that he sought to hide problems in key temperature data on which some of his work was based.

A Guardian investigation of thousands of emails and documents apparently hacked from the University of East Anglia’s climatic research unit has found evidence that a series of measurements from Chinese weather stations were seriously flawed and that documents relating to them could not be produced.

The Guardian? That’s it, folks. Warmenism is dead.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 11:40 am
Speaking of lists, Bolt slams Ratty Rudd’s $100 billion private health insurance lie.

I don’t think many people can yet believe that a man who seems so churchy can lie so desperately when under pressure. Yet Rudd’s list is long – the sleeping-in-cars story, kicked off the farm, the false Anzac dawn, Scores, the “sick girl” excuse for sending the Oceanic Viking boat people to Indonesia, the “reckless spending must stop” promise, the dumping of our “non-German-speaking” diplomat, the “no special deal” claim for the Oceanic Viking Tamils, FuelWatch, the no-responsibility-for-the-boat-surge claim, formalising the “stolen generations” myth, the 750,000 homes will drown claim (among all the other warming deceits), the I-haven’t-read-the-IPCC-draft-treaty excuse…

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 11:44 am
“passionately defend police torture of citizens”

Please show where I’ve done this.

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 11:50 am
You’ve defended police officers randomly trying to electrically zap people they’re too smug, incompetent or cowardly to make a physical arrest.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 12:04 pm
“You’ve defended police officers randomly trying to electrically zap people they’re too smug, incompetent or cowardly to make a physical arrest.”

Please quote me or show how what I said was materially equivalent to that.

What I was inferring was that the law is so shit and poorly administered at the moment that police have less contingent legal liability if they electrocute someone rather than physically restrain them. This of course leads to bad policing and abuse of power and excessive force.

Please tell me if I am wrong.

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 12:18 pm
Your comment here was dripping with sympathy for the police. No sympathy for the man who oversaw the demolition of the White Australia Policy, though. I think that’s an odd combo.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 1:12 pm
Crims should compensate victims in NSW?

Attorney General Rob Hulls says the Government has reinstated compensation for pain and suffering that had been taken away by a previous government.
But he said there are some disadvantages to the current system. Victims often find the process of seeking compensation too distressing.
As a result, he said the Government is looking at ways to simplify the system with the imposition of a levy.

.
There’s another disadvantage to the system: It creates an incentive to make false accusations. This may seem incomprehensible to the learned law-makers in Macquarie St, but with the prospect of victim’s compensation, every deadbeat has a reason to figure out what rich person they can plausibly accuse of a crime against them.
.
My take: if you want to get tough on law and order, then put more cops out there and increase sentences. Don’t go raiding the savings account of a perp and use it to write a cheque to the victim. This is victim-mentality legalising at its most extreme.

daddy dave

2 Feb 10 at 1:30 pm
Swedan now a toilet:

Jews Flee Swedish Town in Wake of Anti-Semitism.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 1:34 pm
There’s another disadvantage to the system: It creates an incentive to make false accusations.

You’d still need police to believe the false accusations. At this stage, they often disbelieve/ignore real claims, let alone false ones.

THR

2 Feb 10 at 1:37 pm
they often disbelieve/ignore real claims, let alone false ones
.
probably right… however it’s still putting an exploitable mechanism into place, that probably will never get removed.

daddy dave

2 Feb 10 at 2:02 pm
I think the way it works currently is that some victims already get certain kinds of compensation from the Victims of Crime Fund. If the crim is made to pay to the fund, rather than directly to the victim, it’d be no more dodgy than the current system. It still wouldn’t do much WRT crims who don’t have two coins to rub together.

THR

2 Feb 10 at 2:03 pm
THR, I know it already exists and this is just going to “streamline” the system. I don’t like it and never have. There should be no financial outcome attached to your testimony in someone else’s criminal trial. It just seems like lowest-common-denominator law-and-order fascism, quite frankly.

daddy dave

2 Feb 10 at 2:14 pm
There should be no financial outcome attached to your testimony in someone else’s criminal trial.

I agree, but my understanding is that the compo goes to counselling, medical bills, etc.

THR

2 Feb 10 at 2:17 pm
Struth. Interest rates kept the same. Didn’t see that coming.

Infidel Tiger

2 Feb 10 at 2:45 pm
So The EU is now funding the WWF?

WWF – another fake charity
DateFeb 1, 2010 CategoryClimate CategoryFake charities CategoryGreens

John Rosenthal has taken a long hard look at where WWF gets its funding. Afficionados of the Fake Charities projects will not be surprised to learn that they huge swathes of their income is derived from the EU.

According to European Commission data, WWF was awarded nearly €9 million in EU support in 2008 alone. In 2007, the figure was over €7.5 million. Most of this support came in the form of ostensibly project-linked grants to WWF-International or its national affiliates.

This is gobsmacking.

JC

2 Feb 10 at 3:00 pm
Regarding the tazer. Isn’t it ironic that if an assailant breaks into your house and you subdue them with “unnecesary” force (as if there could be such a thing in your own castle) then the police will charge you. Yet, they are allowed to subdue unarmed crims with electric shock therapy.

Infidel Tiger

2 Feb 10 at 3:15 pm
Mercy case from the Third World:

Canadian Premier comes to U.S. for surgery.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 5:04 pm
“Your comment here was dripping with sympathy for the police.”

Sympathy for the good ones. They still act under incentives. I suggest we give them a better set of incentives at every stage of their career. Then the “(list of insults) police” you don’t like will be a very small minority that get punted when they screw up.

I thought the WAP existed until 1973. I applaud any watering down of such a policy however.

Semi Regular Libertarian

2 Feb 10 at 5:12 pm
thought the WAP existed until 1973.

You thought wrong. It wasn’t ‘watered down’ under Menzies. It was poleaxed under Menzies. Whitlam did away with the mere remnants.

We weren’t talking about incentives. We were talking about tasers – which should be banned – and the inreasing recourse had to them by incompetent, smug and cowardly police officers.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 5:17 pm
Here’s a first.

Coral in Florida Keys suffers lethal hit from cold

You never would have thought you’d be reading that, would ya?

Given the depth and duration of frigid weather, Meaghan Johnson, marine science coordinator for The Nature Conservancy, expected to see losses. But she was stunned by what she saw when diving a patch reef 2.5 miles off Harry Harris Park in Key Largo.

Star and brain corals, large species that can take hundreds of years to grow, were as white and lifeless as bones, frozen to death. There were also dead sea turtles, eels and parrotfish littering the bottom.

“Corals didn’t even have a chance to bleach. They just went straight to dead,” said Johnson, who joined teams of divers last week surveying reefs in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. “It’s really ecosystem-wide mortality.”

http://www.physorg.com/news184044612.html

Let’s hope like hell a cold spell never hits our reef or it could be curtains in weeks for such a unique resource.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed now.

JC

2 Feb 10 at 7:30 pm
not listening to ones point, never allowing one to get these points out, and filling the room with words.
.
HAHAHA
.
he has managed to wash his hands of the hard yards in the party
.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.
Here’s Graeme hard at work on ’07 LDP campaign trail. He’s got it all: fear and loathing.

Adrien

2 Feb 10 at 8:14 pm
Do we allow TelePrompters in Parliament? I fear Obama is not going to enjoy addressing Federal Parliament on his Oz visit.

Infidel Tiger

2 Feb 10 at 9:19 pm
Good question, Tiger.

I’ll also be watching in great anticipation for the Australian left to hector and hiss the President for his brutal war against the peaceful tribesmen of Afghanistan, for his horrific drone strikes against civilians there, for his loathsome commitment to Guantanamo Bay – the American Auschwitz – and for such other stomach-churning crimes against humanity as calling for a new generation of nuclear power stations and sending Patriot missiles to stymie the so-called “threat” of an “exterminationist” and “extremist” Iran. Reporters will mock Laborite poodles for the loving looks they share with Barack and Bob Brown will yell at BarryHitler in the chamber and probably be thrown out. Surely.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 9:44 pm
Unwittingly JC provides evidence of climate change.

rog

2 Feb 10 at 9:46 pm
Yes, Rog it is evidence that there is climate change. The fucking reefs off the Florida coast froze up and died in the matter of weeks.

JC

2 Feb 10 at 9:53 pm
This poor freaking trader in the background is in real trouble.

Golden rule to all young traders. Never, ever check out porn in the trading room, as the bonus could be imperiled

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhIu7qp5vo8&feature=player_embedded

JC

2 Feb 10 at 10:28 pm
Unwittingly JC provides evidence of climate change.
.
LOL! and not in a good way rog, as far as you’re concerned.

daddy dave

2 Feb 10 at 10:29 pm
Hilarious: I just watched former Whitlam staffer Kerry O’Brien accuse Tony Abbott of dishonesty over carbon abatement costs because, after all, most households will pay less under Rudd’s “plan” after being “compensated” by the government. That is, households will be “compensated” by themselves as taxpayers on top of the increased bills they’ll pay directly. Kerry hasn’t forgotten his Whitlam 101: gubbermint money is free money.

C.L.

2 Feb 10 at 11:53 pm
Dave, get with the program: global warming causes global coldening.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 12:04 am
Kerry’s red-faced (and entirely predictable) bias aside, I actually winced during the Abbott interview, to be honest. He’s at his weakest talking about this now notorious warmening baloney. I ended up being as irritated with him as I was with Turnbull’s monotonous environmental ramblings.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 12:31 am
Pretty funny. Banker dude caught out in the background of a TV report perving on Miranda Kerr.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 12:35 am
I’m not sure why Abbott – or any other member of the coalition – bother with the 7.30 Report and Kerry O’Brien. I’d speak to Chris Uhlmann, but the rest should be told to take a holiday involving sex and travel.

Regarding Global Frauding, Abbott should simply say “The coalition has no position on this matter until the recent criminal investigations into the IPCC are resolved”. That should turn Kezza’s head into a caldera.

Infidel Tiger

3 Feb 10 at 12:42 am
“Macquarie takes matters such as the unacceptable use of technology extremely seriously,” it said. “Macquarie has strict policies in place surrounding the use of technology and the issue arising from today’s live cross on 7 News is being dealt with internally.”

Hopefully the punishment involves being shouted a huge round of drinks on Friday night.

Infidel Tiger

3 Feb 10 at 12:48 am
Interesting solution:

Teacher tells kids to fight with fists in class.

A NEW YORK teacher turned his classroom into a boxing arena for two feuding students, telling the boys to settle their beef with their fists.

Their stunned classmates watched the bizarre spectacle, the New York Post reported today.

To make sure no one found out his teaching technique, the instructor, Joseph Gullotta, 29, allegedly supplied the kids with excuses for the nurse to explain away any injuries.

In one corner was a 10-year-old. His opponent was a year younger.

Before beginning the match at the impromptu fight club at PS 65 in Ozone Park, Queens, Gullotta instructed a girl to close the classroom door.

He ordered the rest of his pupils to make way for the battle, Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said yesterday.

It was wrong to coach the boys to lie, though.

I wonder how many school-ground trouble-makers would shut the hell up ASAP if told they had to put their dukes where their mouths are.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:55 am
“Macquarie takes matters such as the unacceptable use of technology extremely seriously,” it said. “Macquarie has strict policies in place surrounding the use of technology and the issue arising from today’s live cross on 7 News is being dealt with internally.”

Oh please. They were cheesecake semi-nude pics of a professional model. The nose art of Allied planes in WWII was more risque.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 2:14 am
Out of interest, I just Wikied fighter plane nose art. The entry concludes on this depressing (but wholly expected) note:

The British MoD banned the use of pin-up women in nose art on Royal Air Force aircraft in 2007, as commanders decided the images (many containing naked women), were inappropriate and potentially offensive to female personnel, although there were no documented complaints.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 2:31 am
Greece “Discovers” $40 Billion Of Previously Unknown Debt, CDS Gaps

No kidding, but isn’t this basically fraud?

JC

3 Feb 10 at 3:00 am
No kidding.

Goldman Alumni Launch Gay-Focused Hedge Fund

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/clusterstock/~3/m7yQIf0t3yU/goldman-alumni-launch-gay-focused-hedge-fund-2010-2

JC

3 Feb 10 at 3:33 am
A rare man emerges in the Orwellian dystopia of England:

Britain’s most gloriously un-PC supermayor.

Within a week of his election, Mr Davies had slashed his own salary from £73,000 to £30,000, scrapped the mayoral limousine and abolished the council’s free newspaper.

He has written to the Electoral Commission asking them to scrap two-thirds of Doncaster’s 63 council seats in order to save the town £800,000 a year.

‘If Pittsburgh can manage with nine councillors, why do we need 63?’ he asks. ‘They each get a basic salary of £12,590 and we have only eight council meetings a year anyway.’

Deeply sceptical of ‘green claptrap’, he must be the only mayor in Britain who wants more traffic in his town. He says it will boost business and has just announced plans for more parking spaces and an end to bus-only routes. ‘Like it or not, we live in the age of the car,’ he says.

He wants to cut all ‘non-jobs’ in his 13,500 workforce – such as platinum-pensioned ‘community cohesion officers’ – and aims to shrivel future pay deals for council executives.

Much as he likes his chief executive, Paul Hart, he says his £175,000 salary is ‘a joke’ and that any successor can expect half.

‘Don’t believe that stuff about “having to pay the best to get the best”. It’s arrant nonsense – look what it did to the City,’ he says.

And he is in the process of ‘de-twinning’ Doncaster from its five twin towns around the world. Twinning, he says, is all about free holidays for councillors and their staff. On taking office, he was amazed to discover that the council had agreed to pay a £2,800 hotel bill during next month’s St Leger race meeting at the local racecourse.

The money is for entertaining councillors from Herten, Doncaster’s (soon-to-be-ex) twin town in Germany. It was too late to cancel the reservations, but Mr Davies will ensure the exercise is not repeated.

‘Racing happens to be my passion, but I don’t expect the taxpayer to fund it,’ he says.

While these preliminary cuts may be local government heresy, what has really marked out Mr Davies for liberal opprobrium is his gratuitously provocative assault on what he calls ‘the culture of political correctness’.

He has scrapped all future funding for Doncaster’s annual Gay Pride event. ‘I’m not a homophobe, but I don’t see why council taxpayers should pay to celebrate anyone’s sexuality,’ he says.

He has scrapped funding for council translation services on the grounds that people should be encouraged to learn English. And he has scrapped the word ‘diversity’ from his list of cabinet portfolios.

‘Going on about diversity causes racial tension, it doesn’t improve it,’ he says. ‘The Government has just admitted that gipsies should be given special treatment and that only makes people angry. I want every citizen of Doncaster to be equal.’

Mr Davies is certainly setting himself up for demonisation – by Labour, Tory and Liberal alike. And the twice-married father-of-three hasn’t even hit the 100-day mark. His critics are quiet for now, but I dare say Labour HQ has recruited a team of smear merchants to trawl through his past and his bins. He certainly speaks his mind, which is always a godsend for enemy spin doctors.

Here’s Davies on climate change: ‘I’m not green and I’m not conned by global warming.’

On women in the workplace: ‘Why do we expect pregnant women to work?’

On council affiliations: ‘I don’t want to join things; I want to unjoin them.’

Bit of a nutter on some issues – the Taliban can teach us something about “family values” – but still, wow.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 4:12 am
Well that went well. Abbott & Joyce’s walk while straddling a barbed wire fence has managed to get a fail from Mark Bahnisch, Andrew Bolt, and CL. Trifecta!

steve from brisbane

3 Feb 10 at 8:30 am
CL is wrong as usual.
Holt as Immigration minister wanted to get rid of WAP but Menzies vetoed it.
He still tried by ‘assisting’ the Immigration minister when Treasurer.
WAP mostly disappeared when Holt became PM.

Whitlam merely dotted the is and crossed the ts

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 9:11 am
“I’m not sure why Abbott – or any other member of the coalition – bother with the 7.30 Report and Kerry O’Brien.”

Abbott needs the 7.30 report to confirm that he is as good as John Howard and the 7.30 report needs Abbott for the comedy

rog

3 Feb 10 at 9:20 am
“Out of interest, I just Wikied fighter plane nose art.”

Well, while I’m quite a fan of nose art CL, I’d say the RAF has every right to tell aircrew what to do with millions of quid of government kit.

BirdLab

3 Feb 10 at 9:54 am
The racist attack on the Indian student………..

A man suffered burns when he tried torching his own car in an insurance scam, police say

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/a-man-suffered-burns-when-he-tried-torching-his-own-car-in-an-insurance-scam-police-say/story-e6frf7kx-1225826185503

JC

3 Feb 10 at 10:46 am
Doc Evatt II: Rudd’s government really was compromised by a Chinese communist. Gillard also compromised. She must resign if she cannot explain her silence on the matter.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 10:48 am
A man suffered burns when he tried torching his own car in an insurance scam, police say

Ha! serves him right if true. a liar, a lawbreaker AND a candidate for the Darwin awards

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 10:49 am
All warmenism gets a fail from me, Steve, because a) it’s junk science foisted on the world by people we now know to be embezzlers and frauds; and 2) nothing Australia does will ever make any difference to the temperature of the planet. But comparatively speaking, nothing Abbott does will come close to the epic fail and humiliation of Kevin Rudd’s laughable ETS “plan” or the hilarious collapse of the COP15 hysteria-fest. And nothing will be more satisfying than watching Kevin “The Great Moral Challenge Of Our Time” Rudd run away from warmenism like it some kind of boogey man after his ear wax.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 10:55 am
No Homer, I’m not wrong. The White Australia Policy was effectively demolished by the Mezies government and then the Holt government. The Labor Party and Arthur Calwell remained opposed to these reforms well into the 60s. Nothing but technical remnants remained by the time Whitlam was elected. That’s the same Gough Whitlam who hated the Vietnamese. Your ignorance of history is as breathtaking as your ignorance of how the Parliament works.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 11:03 am
South Australia goes fascist

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/confound-this-orwellian-act/story-e6frg6zo-1225826105725

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 11:10 am
“…I’d say the RAF has every right to tell aircrew what to do with millions of quid of government kit.”

You mean the PC Fred Niles of Whitehall, not the RAF.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 11:11 am
Healinethat sends lefties totally apeshit… like wanting to ban Murdoch and/or doing voodoo charms with his image.

Murdoch speaking about the CEO of Fox News:

MURDOCH: ‘Roger Ailes has done remarkable job building world’s most influential network’…

lol

It’s actually a remarkable story about having the smarts to enter what looked like a pretty saturated business and then carve out a huge part of the market.

MarkB from LP however thinks Murdoch doesn’t really get the media business as he’s said a few times.

Perhaps MarkB from LP ought to go and buy some crow and cook it.

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Media conglomerate News Corp posted better-than-expected quarterly results on Tuesday thanks to a recovery in local advertising sales and the blockbuster 3-D movie “Avatar.”

News Corp, which also raised its dividend by 25 percent, said fiscal second-quarter net income was $254 million, or 10 cents a share. A year earlier, it posted a net loss of $6.4 billion, or $2.45 a share, before items.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 11:12 am
oops Headline.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 11:12 am
I notice Mark B has piped down lately with his free business and strategy advice. Perhaps he’s disappointed that McKinsey didn’t come knocking on his door? LOL

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 11:16 am
Rudd’s government really was compromised by a Chinese communist. Gillard also compromised.
.
This goes beyond day-to-day Canberra politics and is an actual crisis.

daddy dave

3 Feb 10 at 11:17 am
Jase:

The moron backed down as of last night saying he’d not prosecute and would change the law after the election.

Adelaide’s AG Atkinson….

“The AdelaideNow website is not just a sewer of criminal defamation, it is a sewer of identity theft and fraud,” he said yesterday. “There is no impinging on freedom of speech; people are free to say what they wish as themselves, not as somebody else.”

Who says free speech requires someone to put up their name and details to criticize the government. What a despicable little clown he is.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 11:23 am
CL, air forces around the world have had regulations governing nose-art going back to at least the 1960s. It’s nothing new.

And as I said, those aircraft are there for a purpose, not as the personal playthings of crew. What next? Bogan racing-stripes and strip-club stickers? Would a nice leatherclad gay-boy be acceptable to you? Or how about something flashing a bit of dick for the lady pilots?

BirdLab

3 Feb 10 at 11:35 am
From News Corp. short-seller, McKinsey Partner, and John Bates Clark Medal winner, we have this:

And in the economic sphere, Abbott, who knows nothing much of economics…

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 11:35 am
Surely, it is high time the Victorian police started protecting Victorians from the racist Indian crime wave that is terrorizing Victorians at present?

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 11:37 am
Holt put up proposals to liberalise immigration but Menzies always stopped them.

It was Holt who actually liberalised immigration.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 11:41 am
those aircraft are there for a purpose, not as the personal playthings of crew.
.
I hope you’re not serious.

daddy dave

3 Feb 10 at 11:44 am
I’m never serious DD.

BirdLab

3 Feb 10 at 11:45 am
hahhahahahah

MarkB from LP is accusing Abbott of not knowing anything about economics…. Not to defend Abbott one way or another….. like err he and Rudd both have the Nobel in economics. Lol.

It’s really irritating reading that swill Peter.. Please use discretion when linking such crap again

JC

3 Feb 10 at 11:49 am
No Homer, you’re hopelessly, stupidly wrong.

Just one example: the hated dictation test – called the heart and soul of the WAP – was abolished in 1958 under Menzies. Holt and Downer played leading ministerial roles in demolishing the WAP from the 1940s onwards. Holt continued the reforms after Menzies’ retirement. Labor remained opposed or indifferent to the entire movement well into the 60s.

From the Australian Government’s own timeline (Department of Immigration and Citizenship):

After the outbreak of hostilities with Japan, Prime Minister John Curtin reinforced the philosophy of the ‘White Australia’ policy, saying ‘this country shall remain forever the home of the descendants of those people who came here in peace in order to establish in the South Seas an outpost of the British race’.

During World War II, many non-white refugees entered Australia. Most left voluntarily at the end of the war, but many had married Australians and wanted to stay. Arthur Calwell, the first immigration minister, sought to deport them, arousing much protest.

Minister Holt’s decision in 1949 to allow 800 non-European refugees to stay, and Japanese war brides to be admitted, was the first step towards a non-discriminatory immigration policy.

The next major step

The next major step was in 1957 when non-Europeans with 15 years residence in Australia were allowed to become Australian citizens.

The revised Migration Act of 1958 introduced a simpler system of entry permits and abolished the controversial dictation test.

The revised Act avoided references to questions of race. Indeed, it was in this context that the Minister for Immigration, Sir Alexander Downer, stated that ‘distinguished and highly qualified Asians’ might immigrate.

After a review of the non-European policy in March 1966, Immigration Minister Hubert Opperman announced applications for migration would be accepted from well-qualified people on the basis of their suitability as settlers, their ability to integrate readily and their possession of qualifications positively useful to Australia.

At the same time, the government decided a number of ‘temporary resident’ non-Europeans, who were not required to leave Australia, could become permanent residents and citizens after five years (the same as for Europeans).

The government also eased restrictions on immigration of non-Europeans. The criterion of ‘distinguished and highly qualified’ was replaced by the criterion of ‘well qualified’ non-Europeans, and the number of non-Europeans allowed to immigrate would be ‘somewhat greater than previously’.

A watershed

The March 1966 announcement was the watershed in abolishing the ‘White Australia’ policy, and non-European migration began to increase. Yearly non-European settler arrivals rose from 746 in 1966 to 2,696 in 1971, while yearly part-European settler arrivals rose from 1,498 to 6,054.

In 1973 the Whitlam Labor government took three further steps…

The first and most difficult of the post-war reforms occurred on Menzies’ watch and with his imprimatur.

You’re a dishonest, partisan hack, Homer.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 11:53 am
You’re a dishonest, partisan hack, Homer.

You’re kidding, right?

The historian (homer) is going to be very busy today.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 11:56 am
CL, air forces around the world have had regulations governing nose-art going back to at least the 1960s. It’s nothing new.

Much further back than the 1960s, actually. But the regs were overlooked because the designs were considered good for morale – which they were. Your comment about pilots flashing their dicks to women is, of course, symptomatic of the Fred Nile age of moral panic and PC exaggeration that I’m lamenting.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 11:58 am
err CL this completely agrees with what I said.

only minor changes which Holt got his successor to do with the major changes under Holt.

You simply cannot read. what was the most important changed.what Holt had proposed as Immigration minister but Menzies rejected.

you are like Forrest. You never read what you copy.

wow

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 12:07 pm
“But the regs were overlooked because the designs were considered good for morale”

A situation that will probably continue according to the whim of local officers.

And just to clarify, my comment wasn’t about pilots flashing their dicks to women, it was a reference to where you draw the line regarding artwork in an organisation where women are also senior aircrew, so why shouldn’t they be allowed to have pin-ups as well?

Look, of course the RAF is going to have regulations governing everything from paperclips to bowel-movements. You can choose to see as the outrageous imposition of PC moral panic, and fair enough if that’s your view.

From my perspective it’s probably a case of someone saying ‘Fuck it, too hard.’

And just for the record, some visual relief:

http://psychorockabilly.tumblr.com/page/11

BirdLab

3 Feb 10 at 12:23 pm
partisan hack in saying Holt was the main person behind liberalising Immigration.not Menzies not Whitlam.

only CL could say something so stupid no wait Forrest could

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 12:45 pm
Homer earlier:

“Holt as Immigration minister wanted to get rid of WAP but Menzies vetoed it.”

Wrong. The White Australia Policy was gutted on Menzies’ watch – throughout the 50s and into the early 60s. Holt continued the reforms from 1966 onwards.

Homer now:

“CL this completely agrees with what I said.”

You’re simply a hack, Homer. No longer funny in many respects because you’re now lying just to entertain yourself.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:03 pm
wow

Bird just told Michael Kinsley to ‘hang yourself in the women’s toilet’

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/How-to-Think-About-Jewish-Bankers-2352#comment-32439310

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 1:04 pm
read what you copied and pasted clown.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 1:08 pm
‘Fuck it, too hard.’

An apt motto for modern Britain, to be sure.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:09 pm
jc

I’ve just spent a few hours looking at that blog. jesus, I never knew there were so many angry people in Australia!

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:14 pm
PP
I’d say that Bird’s anger more than dwarves everyone on LP’s

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 1:16 pm
jtfsoon

Well that just increases the amount of anger in this country I was unaware of!

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:24 pm
I did, Homer. It demonstrates that you’re wrong. That’s not exactly a surprise coming from someone who predicted triumph for Mark Latham.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:27 pm
Does Bird have an equally icky obsession with Tony Abbott’s body!?

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:28 pm
Bird told Kingsley to go hang himself in a ladies loo!!!!!!!!!

LOl
Good one Bird… Another fine mess you’ve got yourself into. This time though don’t ask Jason or I to get you out of it, as we’re not lifting a finger.

————–

Peter:

Yea it’s a very angry site, (However, as Jason pointed Bird doubles it)

I think LP has a deep structural problem they haven’t dealt with, which I have mentioned in the past. It’s a conglomeration of top hens and Beta males with arts degrees making for a very unhappy, angry bunch of people.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 1:28 pm
Does Bird have an equally icky obsession with Tony Abbott’s body!?

No, Bird is a very militant, angry heterosexual. I think he just loves fat chicks wih very large back sides, that’s all.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 1:31 pm
The WAP was dismantled gradually from about 1949 onwards. By the time Whitlam came to power it was over; just like the Vietnam War many wrongly think he extricated us from.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:31 pm
jc they all also appear to be childless.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:32 pm
Another good call from Homer last year was that there was nothing to see here about the affairs of Joel Fitzgibbon. Oops.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:35 pm
I reckon that’s one of Birdy’s best through most inappropriate insults. The full one was when he told Mark B to hang himself in the ladies’ loo with his necktie.

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 1:35 pm
Peter:

What would you expect? If you have a bunch of aggressive top hens, they’re not exactly rushing to mate with mostly out-of-work-no-prospects-betas. If I were a gal I’d stay childless too with that sort of choice.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 1:36 pm
What’s LP been up to, JC? I missed it.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:37 pm
That whole blog is drowning in androphobia.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:37 pm
from Said government department on
Immigration.

The March 1966 announcement was the watershed in abolishing the ‘White Australia’ policy, and non-European migration began to increase. Yearly non-European settler arrivals rose from 746 in 1966 to 2,696 in 1971, while yearly part-European settler arrivals rose from 1,498 to 6,054.

Actually Calwell created the first minor changes which Holt acknowledged. Holt then changed these a tad further but was frustrated by Menzies but maintained his interest when becoming treasurer.

He bolstered Downer to change and the legislation was little different from what he proposed.

The MAJOR changes were in 1966.
This part CL copied and pasted CL cannot read

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 1:39 pm
Our warmenist nitwit of a prime minister takes another hit:

Report undercuts Kevin Rudd’s Great Barrier Reef wipeout.

KEVIN Rudd’s insistence that the Great Barrier Reef could be “destroyed beyond recognition” by global warming grates with new science suggesting it will again escape temperature-related coral bleaching.

The Prime Minister yesterday put the reef at the centre of political combat over climate policy, telling parliament it would be obliterated in the worst-case scenario that “temperatures went through the roof”.

So he lied. And his ETS “plan” would do nothing about the temperature anyway.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:42 pm
Oh Jeezus! I’d say this guy is childless!

Waxing for men’s been big among straight kids for quite some time!… where I live, there are lots of shopfronts offering discounts on permanent laser hair removal.

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/03/tony-abbott-youre-no-mark-latham/#comment-855169

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:43 pm
BBB

Ah, Calwell’s major contribution to ending the WAP was his sublime

Two Wongs don’t make a White.

Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:44 pm
After the outbreak of hostilities with Japan, Prime Minister John Curtin reinforced the philosophy of the ‘White Australia’ policy, saying ‘this country shall remain forever the home of the descendants of those people who came here in peace in order to establish in the South Seas an outpost of the British race’.

During World War II, many non-white refugees entered Australia. Most left voluntarily at the end of the war, but many had married Australians and wanted to stay. Arthur Calwell, the first immigration minister, sought to deport them, arousing much protest.

Minister Holt’s decision in 1949 to allow 800 non-European refugees to stay, and Japanese war brides to be admitted, was the first step towards a non-discriminatory immigration policy.

The next major step

The next major step was in 1957 when non-Europeans with 15 years residence in Australia were allowed to become Australian citizens.

The revised Migration Act of 1958 introduced a simpler system of entry permits and abolished the controversial dictation test.

The revised Act avoided references to questions of race. Indeed, it was in this context that the Minister for Immigration, Sir Alexander Downer, stated that ‘distinguished and highly qualified Asians’ might immigrate.

After a review of the non-European policy in March 1966, Immigration Minister Hubert Opperman announced applications for migration would be accepted from well-qualified people on the basis of their suitability as settlers, their ability to integrate readily and their possession of qualifications positively useful to Australia.

At the same time, the government decided a number of ‘temporary resident’ non-Europeans, who were not required to leave Australia, could become permanent residents and citizens after five years (the same as for Europeans).

The government also eased restrictions on immigration of non-Europeans. The criterion of ‘distinguished and highly qualified’ was replaced by the criterion of ‘well qualified’ non-Europeans, and the number of non-Europeans allowed to immigrate would be ’somewhat greater than previously’.

A watershed

The March 1966 announcement was the watershed in abolishing the ‘White Australia’ policy, and non-European migration began to increase. Yearly non-European settler arrivals rose from 746 in 1966 to 2,696 in 1971, while yearly part-European settler arrivals rose from 1,498 to 6,054.

The White Australia Policy was gutted on Menzies’ watch – throughout the 50s and into the early 60s. Holt continued the reforms from 1966 onwards.

Homer is again wrong.

For his part, Whitlam carried through some minor additions to the change before going on to express his hatred for the Vietnamese and greenlighting a genocide in East Timor.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 1:46 pm
everything about Mark B screams metrosexual.

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 1:52 pm
Peter do not be ignorant Calwell was rsponding to an intejection from liberal one Mr White.

yes in black and white but CL ignores it
The March 1966 announcement was the watershed in abolishing the ‘White Australia’ policy, and non-European migration began to increase.

tough CL wrong AGAIN

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 1:59 pm
More like [Old] Spice Girl.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 1:59 pm
BBB

I am hardly being ignorant. I am merely quoting the man himself.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 2:06 pm
After the outbreak of hostilities with Japan, Prime Minister John Curtin reinforced the philosophy of the ‘White Australia’ policy, saying ‘this country shall remain forever the home of the descendants of those people who came here in peace in order to establish in the South Seas an outpost of the British race’.

During World War II, many non-white refugees entered Australia. Most left voluntarily at the end of the war, but many had married Australians and wanted to stay. Arthur Calwell, the first immigration minister, sought to deport them, arousing much protest.

Minister Holt’s decision in 1949 to allow 800 non-European refugees to stay, and Japanese war brides to be admitted, was the first step towards a non-discriminatory immigration policy.

The next major step

The next major step was in 1957 when non-Europeans with 15 years residence in Australia were allowed to become Australian citizens.

The revised Migration Act of 1958 introduced a simpler system of entry permits and abolished the controversial dictation test.

The revised Act avoided references to questions of race. Indeed, it was in this context that the Minister for Immigration, Sir Alexander Downer, stated that ‘distinguished and highly qualified Asians’ might immigrate.

After a review of the non-European policy in March 1966, Immigration Minister Hubert Opperman announced applications for migration would be accepted from well-qualified people on the basis of their suitability as settlers, their ability to integrate readily and their possession of qualifications positively useful to Australia.

At the same time, the government decided a number of ‘temporary resident’ non-Europeans, who were not required to leave Australia, could become permanent residents and citizens after five years (the same as for Europeans).

The government also eased restrictions on immigration of non-Europeans. The criterion of ‘distinguished and highly qualified’ was replaced by the criterion of ‘well qualified’ non-Europeans, and the number of non-Europeans allowed to immigrate would be ’somewhat greater than previously’.

A watershed

The March 1966 announcement was the watershed in abolishing the ‘White Australia’ policy, and non-European migration began to increase. Yearly non-European settler arrivals rose from 746 in 1966 to 2,696 in 1971, while yearly part-European settler arrivals rose from 1,498 to 6,054.

The White Australia Policy was gutted on Menzies’ watch – throughout the 50s and into the early 60s. Holt continued the reforms from 1966 onwards.

Homer is as wrong here as he was on Mark Latham being swept into The Lodge.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 2:08 pm
Arthur Calwell was a thuggish turd on WAP matters, his decision to forcibly deport the O’Keefe family in 1949 because the mother was a war-time refugee from Ambon and the several children half-cast acting as a catalyst for Menzies’ move away from the system of old and earning a rebuke from Ming in Parliament.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 2:20 pm
I think C.L. is over egging the pudding, but I don’t get how Butters can defend Calwell.

Why does Butters defend Calwell?

1. Butters supports preferential racism.

2. Butters will die in a ditch to defend anyone and anything from the ALP.

How then does Butters feel about Hawke and Keating changing the ALP charter so they could reform the banks? I await a brutal and messy mental breakdown.

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 2:28 pm
I think it’s time BBB was putt in 24 hour moderation. That way we will have moved on from his bullshit by the time it’s posted. His syntax deeply offends me.

Infidel Tiger

3 Feb 10 at 2:46 pm
Channelling BBB:

inFIdl Tiger
look up pp 61-77 of yhe Journl OF ZMbabwean monetary economics before you make a ‘contribution’ here again.

You simply ary not well wersed in schoolership.

CL epeats homself

whst a surprise!!!!

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 2:49 pm
No over-egging of anything, SRL, just me being right:

“The White Australia Policy was gutted on Menzies’ watch – throughout the 50s and into the early 60s. Holt continued the reforms from 1966 onwards.”

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 2:55 pm
whst a surprise!!!!

er thats not a surprise soon
fo course fiscal policy will override monetary policy. havent you heard of the GFC?
oh dear.
for once do your homework. Germany in the mid 80s is a prime example.

daddy dave

3 Feb 10 at 2:59 pm
I forgot to add:
/BBB

daddy dave

3 Feb 10 at 3:00 pm
Oh dear, Barrack Obmaa contRIButed what to eth deficit? Thta’s righht – nothing. Mark and statman should read some Neville Shute.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:02 pm
I fail to see the point of this pissing contest. Judging immigration policy in eras before we born by today’s standards is beyond pointless. The point is how the state relates to people within its jurisdiction, not beyond it.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 3:03 pm
Peter you are kidding you said the remark without knowing he was actually replying to an interjection from the said Mr White.

You clearly meant Calwell was making a racist remark.

Mark still crying about making a goose of yourself about Posen. I was defending his remark in parliament. You obviously didn’t know that despite your proudly boasted research abilities.

Statmen I can say when I read something I read it. Unlike you and Tooze when you made a goose of yourself in attempting to make a joke about the Gestapo being the equal of the Gallup organisation in understanding a nation’s mood.

Funny how at Catallaxy there is rarely ever any evidence to back up crackpot opinions and then when it is shown the evidence actually shows those opinions are wrong nothing is said.
alleged stimulus in japna or alleged defaulting of US Government for starters

Cl said You thought wrong. It wasn’t ‘watered down’ under Menzies. It was poleaxed under Menzies
except the facts differ of course as they always do with CL

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 3:05 pm
Yes but SRL’s original claim was that the WAP was abolished by Whitlam. We can now all agree that this is indictably egregious nonsense.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:07 pm
I was defending his remark in parliament
They allowed you into Parliament, Homer? To testify???

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 3:08 pm
The above is proof that nobody can out Homer, Homer. Absolute torture to read.

Infidel Tiger

3 Feb 10 at 3:09 pm
“…crackpot opinions…”

Homer believes Obama and the Democrats have contributed nothing to the present US deficit.

The WAP was poleaxed under Menzies – its epicentre of blatant discrimination being the notorious dictation test – which was abolished in 1958. Moreover, it was Menzies who built and/or re-built Australia’s relationships with Japan specifically and Asia more generally. Decades later, failed council clerk Paul Keating claimed he invented the idea.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:11 pm
What’s LP been up to, JC? I missed it.

It started with Peter mentioning Mark’s thread suggesting Abbott doesn’t understand economics which is thought was a bit rich coming from him and the fact he supports Rudd. It then went on from there.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 3:11 pm
The above is proof that nobody can out Homer, Homer. Absolute torture to read.
.
Indeed I had to take my own eyeballs out and rinse them under cold water after that effort.

daddy dave

3 Feb 10 at 3:18 pm
the WAP was poleaxed by Menzies.

He (Downer) may have presided over a minor liberalisation of the White Australia policy, but Downer was determined to preserve Australia’s `predominantly homogeneous population’. He remained unmoved when the Student Action movement—formed just before the 1961 Federal election—harassed him at political meetings.

well CL wrong AGAIN.

oh dear not only can CL not state the policies by Obama that has led to the tripling of the deficit he doesn’t even remember me telling him of ARRA and how much it contributed to the deficit!

IT can read!

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 3:19 pm
interestingly if you google one Homer P, you find he used to be on the Board of Robert Menzies College.

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 3:23 pm
IT can read!

Yep. And until now I never thought it would be a curse.

Infidel Tiger

3 Feb 10 at 3:24 pm
The WAP was gutted under Menzies and this trajectory was followed through by Holt. At the time, thuggish turd Arthur Calwell was making racist jokes in Parliament and describing advocates of change as “Presbyterian long hairs.” Later, Whitlam added minor technicalities before pronouncing his hatred for the Vietnamese in Cabinet and greenlighting a genocide in East Timor.

It was Menzies, moreover, who built and/or re-built Australia’s engagement with Asia – an achievement later claimed by former council clerk and failed one-term prime minister Paul Keating.

“…crackpot opinions…”

Homer “Deficits Don’t Matter” Cheney still believes that Obama and the Democrats have contributed nothing to the present US deficit. That would be the deficit that for all time marks Barry as the worst fiscal lummox in US history.

Obama = $1.6 trillion.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:29 pm
BBB

I said nothing about who Calwell was responding to. My point was merely that quote of his has been iconic ever since, and perfectly encapsulated the immigration policies and ideas he had cherished and championed his entire life – public and private. Is that clearer?

And for the record, I do not regard “two Wongs don’t make a white” as “racist”. I think it was a very amusing play on the context of the moment – Messrs. Wong and White, an old aphorism – “two wrongs don’t make a right” – and the reality of a government policy of the day. All in all, very amusing I’d say.

Now, if you want a racist remark, there are plenty around that deal with monkeys, bankers running the world, gas chambers, nooses, etc.

Peter Patton

3 Feb 10 at 3:31 pm
Now, if you want a racist remark, there are plenty around…

“I’m not having hundreds of fucking Vietnamese Balts coming into this country with their religious and political hatreds against us!”

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:43 pm
Wrong Statman still am.

Yeah CL he gutted the WAP so much there were demonstrations against his Immigration minister so the policy would be liberalised.

That is a big hole you are falling into.

Oh CL I did mention ARRA. you can’t mention any others.

CL who never criticised Reagan or Bush for creating deficits in their time and for being the only Presidents to increase debt without a war or major economic catastrophe now berates Obama for having the temerity of having a deficit in the worst times since the Depression.

Okay Peter that is fine however if you really believed that you would have said it previously.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 3:44 pm
“still crying about making a goose of yourself about Posen. I was defending his remark in parliament. You obviously didn’t know that despite your proudly boasted research abilities.”

I’m crying that they let you within 500 metres of any institution that can make orders with legal effect.

Posen is probably crying as well, given how when yet again, when someone actually read your flavour of the month, they came to a totally different conclusion – and highlighted the egregious errors you had made.

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 3:57 pm
Once again:

The WAP was gutted under Menzies and this trajectory was followed through by Holt after 1966. At the time, thuggish bone head Arthur Calwell was describing advocates of change as “Presbyterian long hairs.” Later, Whitlam added minor technicalities before pronouncing his hatred for the Vietnamese in Cabinet and greenlighting a genocide in East Timor.

It was Menzies, moreover, who built and/or re-built Australia’s engagement with Asia – an achievement later claimed (hilariously) by Paul Keating.

I note above (3.19 pm) that Homer has plagiarised a passage from the Australian Dictionary of Biography without quotation marks, a citation or a link. If you were a student of mine, you’d be failed for that alone (to say nothing of your myriad other incompetencies).

As for the WAP vis-a-vis the activities of the Student Action movement in the 1961 election campaign, Homer might like to peruse this article. Read what Calwell has to say about Asians and Africans. Money quote: “These are the last people Australia should wish to welcome.”

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 3:58 pm
Semi-regular

Whoever let Homer testify in Parliament should be sacked …

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 4:07 pm
“I note above (3.19 pm) that Homer has plagiarised a passage from the Australian Dictionary of Biography without quotation marks, a citation or a link. If you were a student of mine, you’d be failed for that alone (to say nothing of your myriad other incompetencies).”

Butters always points out that he’s a better researcher than anyone here. (Despite recently arguing that Australia didn’t have low inflation in 2001 when we were in a near recession – and being quite incorrect). Surely the “Master” can’t be slipping? That’s like saying he consistently writes illegibly or with very poor grammar.

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:16 pm
yeah Mark all those errors you cannot point out.

you claim Japan had stimulative policies in the 90s. He says not.

you good at saying people say the opposite of what they say when you haven’t read them and when they are quoted to you.

Eliminating the dictation was fine and good but by no means gutted the WAP as demonstrations during the 1961 against the hapless Downer showed.

you now think balts is a racist remark!!

Err CL the invasion of East Timor was premeditated by the fact certain pollies in Asutralia was saying the Eat timorese Government was Communist.

It was Holt that got rid of the AWP no-one else. If CL could read he might know that

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

3 Feb 10 at 4:16 pm
Hey libertarians, let me know your take on this:

“The internet will potentially lose one of its main sources of bestiality videos under a ban approved by the upper house of the Dutch Parliament.

The new law bans human sex with animals, including in private situations where the animals are not injured, a summary of the law posted on the upper chamber’s website said.

Sex with animals had been legal in the Netherlands, as long as it could be proven the animals were not injured.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/03/2808870.htm?section=justin

(Any topic is more edifying than the current one)

steve from brisbane

3 Feb 10 at 4:16 pm
CL who never criticised Reagan or Bush for creating deficits in their time and for being the only Presidents to increase debt without a war or major economic catastrophe now berates Obama for having the temerity of having a deficit in the worst times since the Depression.

I apologise for not criticising Reagan for his economic policies, Homer, but I was in primary school at the time. Reagan was required to re-build the military after the Carter catastrophe. Leaving that aside, your new crackpot claim that Bush didn’t have a war to fight not only takes the cake for stupidity but gobbles it up and vomits it forth in technicolour for you to return to like the OCD-afflicted old dog that you are.

Despite inheriting the Clinton recession, a war against Al Qaeda that Clinton walked away from for seven years, the attacks on 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, stock market scandal and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Bush Administration reduced the deficit from $412 billion in 2004 to $162 billion dollars in 2007, a 60 percent drop. There followed the financial crisis (largely brought on by Democrat policy) and the associated costs which we all lament.

But Obama has tripled the deficit since Bush’s last year, thus becoming the worst fiscal hobo in US history.

The figure now is $1.6 trillion.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 4:20 pm
Steve:

How do you feel about the Dutch law. Would it cramp your style?

JC

3 Feb 10 at 4:24 pm
“yeah all those errors you cannot point out.”

I didn’t point out your mischaracterisation of Posen, someone else did – as I said before.

“you claim Japan had stimulative policies in the 90s. He says not.”

Our intrepid researcher (Sinclair, DB, JC, Jason…not me) says that you’re wrong…and they provided some fairly solid quotes that make your argument look like piffle.

“you good at saying people say the opposite of what they say when you haven’t read them and when they are quoted to you.”

I could say the same about you, the shame being that you, the poor witless gull that you are, have actually read the source. You just get it 100% wrong.

“you now think balts is a racist remark!!”

Most people are over-sensitive, but “Abos” “Chinks” “Balts” and in the context of *fucking Vietnamese Balts…with their hatred etc* was racist – and incorrect, considering most were South Vietnamese or fled the regime – they didn’t hate Australia for fighting in Vietnam. It was probably partly why they came here.

“It was Holt that got rid of the AWP no-one else. If CL could read he might know tha”

Your chronology of history is confused and nonsensical. It offends my sense of pride that I have being a university educated Australian. If you had any understanding of the Australian system of Government, you’d know that Menzies was Holt’s PM for a very long time, and there were other Ministers, and ultimately Whitlam who swept away the vestiges.

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:26 pm
Steve,

Animals can’t consent and it doesn’t cultivate good behaviours – other than being really fucked up.

I don’t take the Singerian view where you can fuck your cat than eat it in a hot pot. Virtually no one does.

Now, like JC says, would this cramp your style? Do you need to refund your one way ticket to Holland?

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:29 pm
Hey Homer:

You mentioned you testified to parliament? WTF?

Posting useless drivel on the web is neither here or there.

However if you’re testifying before parliament on economic matters, that’s a whole new ball game. Our fucking national interest is at stake.

Straight away I’m panicked and I never panic.

Who the help allowed you, homer as that person ought to be impeached if it were possible here.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 4:31 pm
I can read, Homer, which is how I discerned that a passage you used above was suspiciously literate and therefore unlikely to be your work. A Google search confirmed that you had indeed plagiarised the entire paragraph from the Australian Dictionary of Biography.

As if that isn’t bad enough, you dishonestly implied that the Student Action movement was hounding Alec Downer in 1961 whereas its members were, in fact, protesting politicians from both major parties – with an especially vituperative emphasis on crazy WAP hold-out, Arthur Calwell.

On East Timor, Whitlam backed the invasion not because he wanted to stymie communism but because he adhered to a foreign policy realpolitic according to which Indonesia had a Darwinian ‘might is right’ claim to geo-political suzerainty. That is also why he recognised de jure the incorporation of the Baltic States into the USSR in the same year, thus bolstering the most homicidal regime in human history and honouring the Nazi-Soviet Pact. He later denied the historical veracity of the Killing Fields.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 4:32 pm
No, JC, the story is just noteworthy because (a) I didn’t know the Dutch held this distinction, and (b) I would like to know if libertarians differ from Peter Singer, who wrote in semi-support of non harmful bestiality a few years ago, I think.

steve from brisbane

3 Feb 10 at 4:36 pm
Steve,

Please tell me if you’ve stopped beating your wife because I’d like to smear you in a really stupid and transparent manner.

“I would like to know if libertarians differ from Peter Singer”

Well duh. Have you seen the rest of his philosophy?

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:41 pm
steve
we already have animal cruelty laws. you’d think anti bestiality laws are just a logical extension of this. yes, there is an anti-’yuck’ element to such laws but I’m not so libertarian that I’m going to die in a ditch in opposition to something just because there isn’t a coherent rights based position against it. I’m not a rights based libertarian anyway.

jtfsoon

3 Feb 10 at 4:44 pm
Steve:

I think the matter was once discussed here on libertarians grounds and one person, I can’t recall whom, suggested that because animals aren’t able to communicate their desires it would be wrong to have sex with them as they can’t really be thought of as having the ability to contract. Therefore illegality is fine. It would be similar to the issue with adults and children and why that’s wrong also on libertarian grounds.

I think most libertarians here are not extreme unless you think say Reason magazine writers are extreme. I can’t ever recall diagreeing with anything Reason ever came up with. The exception of course is that they tend to give far too much cred to the demolition party treating them as mentally capable adults whereas I wouldn’t be that far reaching.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 4:48 pm
“I’m not so libertarian that I’m going to die in a ditch in opposition to something just because there isn’t a coherent rights based position against it”

I believe there is.

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:50 pm
Steve:

In other words keeping “zoo sex” illegal here is not going to cause libertarians to get to the streets to protest against government oppression.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 4:52 pm
Steve,

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Semi Regular Libertarian

3 Feb 10 at 4:54 pm
Blog post card from Harold.

Talking about Holland, Harry sent everyone a post card from Paris. He’s on some sort of fact finding mission for the OECD. I can’t imagine what it is.

He’s whining about the fact that it was a trip from hell however that issue was “abated” by the fact that he got to talking to a nice young lady on the plane.

He hates his hotel room but is looking forward to fine dining and lots of drinking (of course). He’s also complaining about the bitter cold.

I’m just wondering… can someone do a calc to figure out how much Co2 he’s dumped in the atmosphere as a result of the trip? Perhaps do it on a cow fart equivalent… Like money cow fats would it take to equal a trip to Paris (also add in a short haul flight from London to Paris as a result of his missed connections).

JC

3 Feb 10 at 5:00 pm
Jealous, JC? Harry carries on about some topics sometimes (don’t get him started on sex) but I didn’t think there was anything objectionable in that post.

steve from brisbane

3 Feb 10 at 6:58 pm
So Harry’s abroad killing Gaia with his jet fumes and attendant wastages. This is the bloke who berated me last year for making fun of the warmenist sheep burping scare.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 9:38 pm
“Is he dangerous”?

Reporter’s question tonight on the 7.30 Report.

David Hicks, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Joel Fitzgibbon?

No, silly.

Lord Monckton.

C.L.

3 Feb 10 at 9:41 pm
No at all jealous, Steve. Why the fuck would I want to go to an OECD meeting?

I just find his concern with AGW even the point of worrying about cow farts and incessant jet travel demands a little incoherent. Don’t you?

I honestly can’t keep up with his jet setting. If he keeps this up the uni ought to buy hims a private jet.

JC

3 Feb 10 at 9:45 pm
Oh duh CL where ya been buddy Lord Monckton is the new satan

tal

3 Feb 10 at 9:46 pm
Sorry CL forgot to put sarc signs in my post.

tal

3 Feb 10 at 9:51 pm
So Uncle Ahmadindejad’s deadline is Feb 11th?Sorta puts the Global Warming stuff on hold yeah?

tal

3 Feb 10 at 10:39 pm
CL, assuming for the moment that AGW is true, why shouldn’t Harry use exactly the same line you do as to why Australia shouldn’t start reducing emissions. (“Whether or not I fly to Paris is not going to make one iota of difference to global warming”?)

steve from brisbane

3 Feb 10 at 11:25 pm
more Caribbean music. Like the beat. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZgqwE6NZQ8

JC

4 Feb 10 at 12:33 am
Harry should use that argument, Steve. Well done. Instead the daffy old twerp stumbles into comments threads uttering obscenities because someone made fun of “scientists” who are alarmed about burping sheep.

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 12:42 am
Tolerance of diverse of opinions has never been what I would call one of his strengths.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 12:57 am
Great Hitchens piece on the North Korean regime:

http://www.slate.com/id/2243112/

Michael Fisk

4 Feb 10 at 3:42 am
but I’m not so libertarian that I’m going to die in a ditch in opposition to something just because there isn’t a coherent rights based position against it.

One would think that the lack of a coherent rights-based position against bestiality, incest, etc. indicated a problem with a rights-based morality. BTW, I accept that you’re not a rights-based libertarian, Jason.

dover_beach

4 Feb 10 at 9:52 am
who’s harry?

daddy dave

4 Feb 10 at 9:52 am
Sex novelist, train fancier, embezzler and weirdo Rajendra Pachauri:

“They are people who say that asbestos is as good as talcum powder – and I hope they put it on their faces every day.”

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 11:29 am
Quick call PETA Iran is launching animals into space
http://www.sfexaminer.com/world/iran-unveils-domestically-built-light-booster-rocket-to-launch-satellites-83422057.html

tal

4 Feb 10 at 11:34 am
“who’s harry?”

Maybe Harry Hutton:

http://chasemeladies.blogspot.com/

BirdLab

4 Feb 10 at 11:43 am
Harry Clarke methinks DD

tal

4 Feb 10 at 11:58 am
Widely loved Democrat, John Edwards, who was protected by the liberal media, bashed his cancer-stricken wife.

Lefty reporters were busy at the time rifling through Sarah Palin’s wheelie bins.

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 12:41 pm
Reagan’s “It’s Morning in America Again” ads were the best political ads ever, but we may have a new contender. It gets really freaky around the 2.20 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7HiQRM7BA&feature=player_embedded

Infidel Tiger

4 Feb 10 at 1:00 pm
Utterly brilliant ad! That FCINO critter is scary!

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 1:14 pm
Barry Brook absolutely nails the debate;

http://media.mytalk.com.au/4bc/podcasts/prof_barry.mp3

Worth a listen to.

The answer to mitigation is simple. R&D to make energy that’s cheaper than than carbon based energy.

Barry’s basically the best advocate for the mitigation debate in the country bar none.

He doesn’t out it in moral/religious terms and attacks the issue as a risk management one which he argues is hugely different from the precautionary principle.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 3:57 pm
Wow, Tiger, what a great ad! The music is so good too.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 4:02 pm
…does anyone remember the 1970s ad in a US local election of two rhinos humping and a voice-over from the challenger?

Beats “Morning in America” hand down!

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 4:14 pm
This is really interesting..

PA, another North Eastern state seems to be lurching to the right, however the right seems to mean strong fiscal conservatism and pretty mainstream views.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/rising_revolt_in_pennsylvania_1jtDhkjhBZbA6yLj3eVYZI

Is a decent part of the North East heading the GOP’s way? It isn’t known as the stupid party for nothing, but if they can manage to put up decent candidates and show some mettle when it comes to the issue of taming government spending they could pull this off.

I was inexcusable that they lost the virtually the entire North East.

Carly Fiorina will beat Barbara Boxer in California in the mid terms and could end up being a serious contender for the VP slot come 2012 if she’s given the all clear with regard to breast cancer.

The GOP make-over could really be an interesting thing to watch as it also seems to be attracting candidates with a libertarian/small government bent.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 4:53 pm
another nice debunking from Andrew Carr.

http://andrewcarr.org/?p=1728

jtfsoon

4 Feb 10 at 5:20 pm
though I wish he would learn to use the apostrophes properly

jtfsoon

4 Feb 10 at 5:21 pm
Jason, the only problem I see with Carr’s post is that he suggests the Indian media ” has a duty” to report responsibly.

I don’t buy this duty thing as it sounds like a call demanding higher authority.

The Indian media duty is to is the sell newspapers along with other media.

Media always overreacts and then when the truth comes out it’s usually buried away, as it isn’t as interesting.

However he’s right that it never seemed to get much traction here as no one really believes there is deep racism in the community.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 5:28 pm
Carr was also suggesting the other day that it’s fine for Rudd to fund (bribe) Clinton’s and Doc Pach’s charities as it buys us influence on the world stage.

Why not go the whole hog and just bribe all these fuckers then and try to get a UN seat.

He needs to grow up.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 5:31 pm
The Australian headlines about the Indian ambassador being recalled are clearly misleading because of the implication that she is being recalled because of the attacks. That’s his point.

jtfsoon

4 Feb 10 at 5:37 pm
oh, okay. I messed that part sorry.

Carr still needs to grow up a little and stop being so partisan.

That charity/bribe thing was in Homer territory for intellectual integrity, which is not suggesting he’s at the point of no return.

He’s still young enough to avoid the rakes in the paddock unlike Homer.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 5:42 pm
While on the subject of rakes in the paddock,

Australia’s answer to mini-me (Lambert) was peddling the biggest story so far this year which he titled “Rosegate”.

Mini-me posted a comment by a journalist and omitted the last part in a deliberate, dishonest attempt to deceive people by trying to change it’s meaning.

I’ve looked everywhere, but as yet I haven’t seen Rosegate make in into the MSM.

Does anyone know if the NyTimes, WaPo or the Gordian are carrying the story as Lambert thought it was big…. (not his dishonesty through omission of course).

JC

4 Feb 10 at 5:57 pm
On the subject of political advertising, you might like to check out some of the campaign ads by New Mexico governor Bill Richardson.

BirdLab

4 Feb 10 at 7:21 pm
Tex is the fucking man!

http://whackingday.com/permarch_sep08/22sep08.htm#usa

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 7:34 pm
You gotta love Tex. He really puts things ins such a clean , clear perspective.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 7:38 pm
anyone know where tex is nowadays?

Jason Soon

4 Feb 10 at 7:41 pm
He’s at http://whackingday.com/new/

Infidel Tiger

4 Feb 10 at 7:44 pm
jtfsoon

Curiously, The Extremely Angry Blog has been dead silent on these recent revelations of the real race of the attacks on Indians. Despite having posted three separate threads recently, attracting over a 1,000 posts denouncing the “structural racism” of white Australians, not a peep today.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 7:59 pm
Though one thing I will compliment them on, and that is the blog’s filing system.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 8:02 pm
I will compliment them on, and that is the blog’s filing system..

You don’t need a filing system to file trash, Peter. What you need is a bin.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 8:10 pm
jc

I have become quite transfixed by the place. I take it it is run by some sort of young academics into all that post-whatever mumbo jumbo.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 8:16 pm
It’s an estrogen soaked site run by young “academics” in the soft “sciences”.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 8:19 pm
It’s the “narrative”

Newspoll Labor 52-48: Watch the political narrative shift

JC

4 Feb 10 at 8:22 pm
Comment over there advising on male beauty treatment for that special beta male look.

male body hair depilation has a lot of admirers outside the gay community now, Paul! Waxing for men’s been big among straight kids for quite some time!

There’s all sort of shit you can get from there.

JC

4 Feb 10 at 8:27 pm
jc

Oh the reason I am transfixed is that the whole site and the “discourse” it feeds off confirms a long held – and not very hopeful – suspicion of mine. And that is that the quality of intellectual is very much restrained by IQ. After a while, you can’t get blood out of a stone.

I have been poring over that site just stunned – and saddened – at the obviously significant numbers of people in our education system who just do not have a hope. I’d say it would be impossible to describe to somebody else what they discuss, as they do not know, either. Their recourse to all that trendy gibberish is inversely related to their IQs. They use it as a crutch.

I think it was John Hewson, during the 1993 election campaign, who lamented the seeming decline of the ‘dead-end job’, by which he meant unskilled work that the not so genetically blessed could still earn an honest living, provide for themselves and their family, and be proud of themselves in their community. I imagine it was The Angry Ones Hewson had in mind.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 8:32 pm
Well guys, at the cost of introducing some more heat into this thread, I’m going to claim a bit of vindication regarding our discussion here about this time last year regarding the IDF’s actions in Gaza:

Israeli commander: ‘We rewrote the rules of war for Gaza’

The officer, who served as a commander during Operation Cast Lead, made it clear that he did not regard the longstanding principle of military conduct known as “means and intentions” – whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon – as being applicable before calling in fire from drones and helicopters in Gaza last winter.

Anybody still prepared to argue that movie scripts are a suitable model for determining what is, and what is not a war crime?

Didn’t think so.

JM

4 Feb 10 at 8:54 pm
“whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon”

So when the RAF strafed Rommel’s staff car, they were committing a war crime?

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 8:57 pm
JM

The laws of war, eh? What a load of bullshit.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 8:59 pm
First off you’re taking the opinion of an officer at face value and accepting that without much more evidence. Great sleuthing JM. Remind me to hire you if I ever need a decent defense lawyer.

First sentence from your link…

Civilians ‘put at greater risk to save military lives’ in winter attack – revelations that will pile pressure on Netanyahu to set up full inquiry

Being hypothetical for a moment, if you were an officer in the IDF you would have no problem with putting your own people at greater risk than the civilians of your enemy.

I certainly hope you never have anything to do with our military, JM. I would advocate that no one ever serve under you.

Perhaps though you’re expecting higher standards from the Israelis than you would of our own military as I would be shocked that any reasonable Australian citizen would think proper military procedure is to put your own soldiers lives first.

What you also fail to mention is the crap coming from the other side prompted the IDF to take further action, as they were blending in with a fully complicit civilian population.

Want to try again?

JC

4 Feb 10 at 9:06 pm
Anybody still prepared to argue that movie scripts are a suitable model for determining what is, and what is not a war crime?
.
I hereby retract that long and impassioned defense I made last year of using movie scripts as a model for defining war crimes. That was wrong.
I now see that movies are not real, but are merely a fictional portrayal of what the scriptwriter and director imagine might have happened under similar circumstances, and are designed for entertainment, not for establishing international precedent.
I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

daddy dave

4 Feb 10 at 9:15 pm
on a more serious note JM: they were fighting people who have no regard for the rules of war, and never had. What’s your opinion on the tactics of the Palestinians in that same war?
(I’m not holding my breath for an answer)

daddy dave

4 Feb 10 at 9:17 pm
JC: Perhaps though you’re expecting higher standards from the Israelis than you would of our own military as I would be shocked that any reasonable Australian citizen would think proper military procedure is to put your own soldiers lives first.

Well there’s two things there. First I hold the IDF to the same standards as I hold the Australian defense forces.

Second, “proper military procedure” is to place the lives of the unarmed above the lives of your soldiers.

Sorry, JC (and others), but that is a fact. No matter how much war porn you’ve watched.

And I would be horrified if any Australian officer ordered his troops to fire on people who were unarmed. In fact I think I’ve argued this point almost annually here over the last 2-3 years, and every time I get the same tendentious sable-rattling responses.

But if you believe this trash – enlist and do it yourself. You’ll then have the pleasure of arguing your “point” with the judge.

JM

4 Feb 10 at 9:17 pm
Two wrongs make a right heh Dave? Sorry, don’t agree, I expect better of state actors.

JM

4 Feb 10 at 9:18 pm
JM,

Cut the bullshit and answer my question about Rommel.

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 9:18 pm
First I hold the IDF to the same standards as I hold the Australian defense forces.

What an idiotic remark. The point is you don’t hold the IDF to the same standards as gaza terrorists, do you, you nong?

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 9:24 pm
Second, “proper military procedure” is to place the lives of the unarmed above the lives of your soldiers.

JM, this is true to some extent; but it is not an unqualified prohibition. Last year you argued that a Hamas militant could employ a human shield, fire upon an IDF soldier and the IDF soldier had no right to return fire taking reasonable steps to avoid harming the human shield. In other words, you argued that the IDF soldier had no right to defend himself which is plainly nonsense. It was nonsense then and it is nonsense now.

dover_beach

4 Feb 10 at 9:26 pm
JM

And I would be horrified if any Australian officer ordered his troops to fire on people who were unarmed.

Oh come off it. When has any ADF officer ever had to live and breathe the toxic military life an Israeli soldier has to? Our ADF has to deal with José Ramos-Horta. The IDF officers have had to deal 24/7 with Yasser Arafat, Hamas, suicide bombers, and whatever else its hostile neighbours throw at them, and all less than 100 km away.

I have always maintained that had Australia found itself in a similar situaton to the Israelis, the Palestinians would have been dealt with a long time ago.

Peter Patton

4 Feb 10 at 9:38 pm
The IDF officers have had to deal 24/7 with Yasser Arafat, Hamas, suicide bombers, and whatever else its hostile neighbours throw at them, and all less than 100 km away.

Arafat’s been dead for some time. And you can count on one hand the number of suicide bombers since 2005. The IDF has never had any excuses for its behaviour, but by now, its even run out of pseudo-excuses.

THR

4 Feb 10 at 9:44 pm
Two wrongs make a right heh Dave?
.
Were there two wrongs? Is that an admission that the Palestinians committed war crimes?

daddy dave

4 Feb 10 at 9:46 pm
“And you can count on one hand the number of suicide bombers since 2005.”

This is why I say the wall worked.

“The IDF has never had any excuses for its behaviour, but by now, its even run out of pseudo-excuses.”

Huh? Have you stopped beating your wife?

JM said:

“whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon”

So…

When the RAF strafed Rommel’s staff car, they were committing a war crime?

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 10:10 pm
“whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon”
.
I’m not an expert in these matters. Is that really a rule of war? It seems very restrictive. Those drones the US uses don’t seem to adhere to it at all.

daddy dave

4 Feb 10 at 10:17 pm
DD, I think this principle only applies in situations were civilians may be confused for combatants and so “hav[ing] a weapon and show[ing] signs of intending to use it” would indicate that you are in fact a combatant.

SRL, Rommel was a uniformed combatant in a marked vehicle and so would have been fair game for any Allied aircraft in the vicinity.

dover_beach

4 Feb 10 at 10:26 pm
Keynesian policy:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/news/economy/jobs_outlook/index.htm

“SRL, Rommel was a uniformed combatant in a marked vehicle and so would have been fair game for any Allied aircraft in the vicinity.”

Not under JM’s rules.

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 10:32 pm
Same for Reinhard Heydrich. Apparently, today’s “progressives” believe the SS kingpin’s assasins must now be regarded as war criminals.

C.L.

4 Feb 10 at 10:39 pm
SRL, why are you taking JM seriously? He’s here to provide the comedy.

dover_beach

4 Feb 10 at 10:43 pm
Huh? Have you stopped beating your wife?

Is this what passes for a comeback in Hayek land?

THR

4 Feb 10 at 11:30 pm
Well THR, please establish that the IDF needs to apologise for virtually everything they’ve ever done, and that JM’s whacky ideas about the rules of war are correct. After all you said:

“The IDF has never had any excuses for its behaviour, but by now, its even run out of pseudo-excuses.”

*please explain*

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 11:40 pm
The IDF are thugs, who’ve spent the past 40 years or so terrorising a civilian population, by way of murder, assassination, bombings, and a thousand daily lesser insults and humiliations. All of this is well-documented for those who care to read up about it. Some of it was done on a pretext of ‘self-defence’, but this ought not to convince anybody, since it’s perfectly clear that there is almost nothing to defend against.

THR

4 Feb 10 at 11:43 pm
No propaganda, how about an explanation? You’ve smeared every IDF member (conscripts) who didn’t support or refused to carry out orders that did more than defend Israel, and oppressed the Palestinians.

Semi Regular Libertarian

4 Feb 10 at 11:58 pm
How the hell is conscription a mitigating factor here? It arguably makes things worse.

You’ve smeared every IDF member (conscripts) who didn’t support or refused to carry out orders that did more than defend Israel, and oppressed the Palestinians.

Roughly this time last year, there were plenty of credible reports of IDF soldiers brutalising civilians, spraying racist slogans all over the place, defecating on the floors of civilian houses, etc. This is in addition to decades of road blocks, extrajudicial executions, bombings, and all the rest of it. No, not every single IDF soldier behaved thus, but I don’t feel any reservations in criticising the IDF as a whole.

THR

5 Feb 10 at 12:05 am
the demon drink:

“It’ll blow your head off,” said James Grimson, smoking a cigarette outside a pub near the center of Coatbridge recently, speaking of Buckfast.

“It’s why a lot of fights happen around here on Saturdays,” said Umair Ansar, who works at a newspaper store in town.

The drink is favored by young, rowdy men with a taste for making trouble — “neds,” they are called in Scotland. Hard-core aficionados drink two or three bottles in succession, right down. “They say it doesn’t taste the same out of a glass,” explained a passer-by, Martin Rooney, 48.

“It goes straight to your head,” he said, “but it’s not my cup of tea.” (Mr. Rooney noted that his cup of tea is half a bottle of vodka a night.)

Buckfast comes in an attractive bottle illustrated with a friendly looking bunch of grapes. It would seem to be an acquired taste. To the neophyte sampler, it evokes a thick, sweet wine — sherry, perhaps — fortified with cola and Vivarin. (!! Lol!! — ed.)

“Have you ever tried Benalyn cough syrup?” asked Sharon Macauley, a sales assistant at G & B’s Newsbox general store, which does a brisk business in Buckfast.

In walked 30-year-old John Miller, ready to procure his daily dose, a bottle and a half.

Mr. Miller was hard-pressed to articulate what he likes about Buckfast. “You get used to it,” he said.

ROFL!

JC

5 Feb 10 at 3:05 am
More on the IPCC’s tendentious reporting:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204575038742717786422.html

dover_beach

5 Feb 10 at 8:21 am
Good story in the Speccie detailing how climate blogs where the vanguard in the battle to destroy the stifling Consensus:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/spectator/thisweek/5749853/the-global-warming-guerrillas.thtml

dover_beach

5 Feb 10 at 8:44 am
this is ridiculous. We should bring back the gullotine for Carolos the Jackal, not allow him the ability to sue anyone

http://www.smh.com.au/world/notorious-terrorist-sues-film-company-to-protect-image-20100204-ngaf.html

jtfsoon

5 Feb 10 at 10:27 am
“the demon drink”

I’ll have you Jimmy.

BirdLab

5 Feb 10 at 10:46 am
Jason it’s a trend,Uncle Joe’s grandson is in on it too
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8296902.stm

tal

5 Feb 10 at 10:54 am
Tal, submit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kjdrill/4314024511/

BirdLab

5 Feb 10 at 11:29 am
what a ridiculous beatup. the picture of Miranda Kerr wasn’t even from a porn site

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/feel-sorry-for-kiely-but-pity-more-his-female-colleagues-20100204-ng33.html?autostart=1

For a start, male workers who think that viewing these kinds of images at work won’t influence the way they perceive and interact with their female colleagues are probably mistaken. Consider a study that showed one group of men a series of ads portraying women as sex things, and compared their behaviour with that of men shown instead advertising material without sexual imagery. Later, each man was asked to interview a female job candidate, and their behaviour was carefully observed.

Men who had recently seen women portrayed as sex objects sat closer to the interviewee, flirted more and asked the candidate a greater number of sexually inappropriate questions. These men also rated her as less competent, and remembered a great deal about the woman’s physical appearance but less information that would help them decide her suitability for the job

jtfsoon

5 Feb 10 at 11:47 am
I agree Jason.

BirdLab

5 Feb 10 at 11:51 am
“Roughly this time last year, there were plenty of credible reports of IDF soldiers brutalising civilians, spraying racist slogans all over the place, defecating on the floors of civilian houses, etc. This is in addition to decades of road blocks, extrajudicial executions, bombings, and all the rest of it. No, not every single IDF soldier behaved thus, but I don’t feel any reservations in criticising the IDF as a whole.”

If you back this up, I will believe you 100%. The fact that you don’t believe in justification also means you’re more likely to see credibility in a weasel word than an actual legitimate course of action.

Semi Regular Libertarian

5 Feb 10 at 12:13 pm
SLR, my sources for this stuff are mostly Ha’aretz.

Due to the two-link limit here, I’ll have to stagger things in bits and pieces.

The Israel Defense Forces is investigating incidents of racist graffiti scrawled by its soldiers on Palestinian property the Gaza Strip, foreign media outlets say.

A series of slogans in both Hebrew and English were left on a house in the Gaza City neighborhood of Zeytun, including “Arabs need 2 die,” “Make war not peace”, and “1 is down, 999,999 to go,”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059513.html

THR

5 Feb 10 at 12:23 pm
Then there were the t-shirts having a laugh about murdering babies, and raping Arab women:

http://lacomplaintedupartisan.blogspot.com/2009/03/demographic-warfare.html

THR

5 Feb 10 at 12:24 pm
In the department for the encouragement of children’s art, the soldiers had dirtied all the walls with gouache paints they found there and destroyed the children’s paintings that hung there.

In every room of the various departments – literature, film, culture for children and youth books, discs, pamphlets and documents were piled up, soiled with urine and excrement.

There are two toilets on every floor, but the soldiers urinated and defecated everywhere else in the building, in several rooms of which they had lived for about a month. They did their business on the floors, in emptied flowerpots, even in drawers they had pulled out of desks.

They defecated into plastic bags, and these were scattered in several places. Some of them had burst. Someone even managed to defecate into a photocopier.

The soldiers urinated into empty mineral water bottles. These were scattered by the dozen in all the rooms of the building, in cardboard boxes, among the piles of rubbish and rubble, on desks, under desks, next to the furniture the solders had smashed, among the children’s books that had been thrown down.

Some of the bottles had opened and the yellow liquid had spilled and left its stain. It was especially difficult to enter two floors of the building because of the pungent stench of feces and urine. Soiled toilet paper was also scattered everywhere.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=159923

THR

5 Feb 10 at 12:26 pm
Here are some eyewitness accounts of how Gazan civilians were treated by IDF soldiers last year:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1068989.html

THR

5 Feb 10 at 12:28 pm
That’s all disgusting and should be punished as poor conduct by professionals, but your bias is truly a long tail event.

1. They aren’t professionals as such, they are conscripts. “It doesn’t matter that they are conscripts”. Rubbish.

2. “extra judicial murder” is beyond the pale. How many Israelis have been killed by Hamas etc? How on earth are these killings justified? If Israel targets the military head of Hamas, good luck to them.

3. Bombings – Hamas and Hezbollah operate as an occupation force for Syria and Iran. They beldn in with the civilians during ground operations. You blame Mubarak because he mistreats unionists. Have you got a bigger red herring?

Semi Regular Libertarian

5 Feb 10 at 12:36 pm
Wow. Israeli soldiers at war don’t use port-a-loos.

War crime!

In the department for the encouragement of children’s art…

LOL. Children’s art.

Some images of Palestinian child abuse. Hamas terrorists take a crap inside their children’s brains – they don’t bother with the plastic bags.

C.L.

5 Feb 10 at 12:42 pm
a nice birthday present for Birdy

http://www.amazon.com/Brink-Inside-Collapse-Global-Financial/dp/0446561932/ref=sr_tr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265332484&sr=8-1/marginalrevol-20

jtfsoon

5 Feb 10 at 1:25 pm
Chaining up a kid seems cruel but the little fella looks happy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1248252/Chinese-boy-chained-lamp-post-dad.html

tal

5 Feb 10 at 2:40 pm
Freaked out about sovereign debt?

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-15-countries-at-the-greatest-risk-of-default-2010-2#bulgarias-cds-spread-2416-bps-1

JC

5 Feb 10 at 6:21 pm
any relation to someone we know?

http://www.theage.com.au/national/man-in-court-over-darwin-explosion-20100205-nhnn.html

Handcuffed and wearing a spitting gag, a man charged with attempted murder over a Darwin firebombing sat in court today restrained by two police officers.

The 45-year-old, known only as Bird, appeared in Darwin Magistrates Court charged with nine counts of attempted murder, one count of unlawfully setting fire to a building, one count of intending to cause serious harm by causing an explosion, and one count of recklessly endangering life.

The charges follow the firebombing of the TIO Insurance and Banking office in Darwin’s CBD on Wednesday morning, in which 19 people were injured.

The man’s lawyers did not apply for bail.

Police allege the man entered the TIO office at about 11am (CST) on Wednesday and lit jerry cans of fuel and firecrackers in a shopping trolley, causing an explosion and fire.

He then drove to Darwin police station where he handed himself in, police say.

Wearing a full-face mask to cover his mouth and with fly-screen mesh over his eyes, ‘Bird’ sat silently in the dock as his matter was briefly mentioned.

Jason Soon

5 Feb 10 at 6:26 pm
Oh no. He’s finally getting even with the fractional reservers.

Wouldn’t it be amusing if he started a cult around the world attacking banks AQ style.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 6:30 pm
Oh no Jason

tal

5 Feb 10 at 6:31 pm
Birds are going off everywhere
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1248233/Locals-fall-fowl-pheasant-terrorises-small-village.html

tal

5 Feb 10 at 6:36 pm
jftsoon

There is something quite corrupt about how this whole MacBank skin-flicker to-do has been framed. Call me old-fashioned, but I’d be much prouder of my child the investment banker, than my child the quasi-sex worker. The complete silence on the low-rent Miranda Kerr is very puzzling.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 6:52 pm
Peter

He’s is just an idiot who should have been more aware of his surroundings. I don’t see a problem with him being raked over the coals for embarrassing his employer through sheer stupidity.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:02 pm
He’s is. Talk about stupidity.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:02 pm
He should have eyes at the back of his head, SDFC? You always know what’s going on behind you?

http://www.maniacworld.com/eyes-in-the-back-of-his-head.jpg

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:07 pm
SRL

That revision should come as no surprise. The births and deaths adjustment is just dodgy when you get a turn in business conditions. It says nothing about Keynesian policy.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:12 pm
sdfc

I am not connected with the company, so it is none of my business how they react. What is the issue is the media treatment and subsequent civic discourse.

Why has nobody commented on the actual bad-guy here, which is a slapper who quite cheerfully works in the sex industry? If it weren’t for Miranda Kerr’s cheesy choice of work, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

It is such cognitive dissonance for the knee-length skirt-wearing, pearl-choker donning old biddies to get outraged, but what about the fact of an Australian girl proudly airing her jewels for money on the Internet for the globe to ogle?

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:12 pm
JC

Yes you should.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:12 pm
Peter – I’m all for her cheesy choice of work.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:14 pm
sdfc

Fair enough. So why do you condemn those who similarly enjoy?

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:16 pm
I was forced to sack a young dude for watching porn over the web who caught by a female doing do. It was pretty bad shit to do, but that’s how it it.

House rules.

You’re told not to mess around with inappropriate sites which means you run the risk if you do.

No tears.

SDFC.

Your argument is different though. You’re suggesting he’s an idiot for getting caught as a result of not knowing what’s going on behind him. That’s patently silly.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:17 pm
Peter

I’m not condemning him for looking just for stupidity.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:18 pm
For the record I found out about it via email and I thought it was hilarious.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:19 pm
JC when I view inappropriate images in the office I first check what’s going on around me.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:21 pm
sdfc

‘Stupid’ is selling shares in a company, which your wife is on the board of directors, after having advised your clients for the past three month to buy. There is nothing ‘stupid’ about reading GQ.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:22 pm
How about doing he right thing for the firm, which doesn’t want you to be looking at inappropriate should over the web.

That’s really the right thing to do.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:23 pm
sdfc

Oh dear. Unfortunately, you are another one of these zombies who has skulled the “inappropriate” Kool-Aid. Packing only thongs, shorts, and t-shirts is “inappropriate” for a skiing holiday; reading GQ is not.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:24 pm
Peter – there is if you are going to get busted for it.

I’m not sure what incident you are referring to but I would call that dishonest, which in my book is far worse than what the Mac guy was doing.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:25 pm
Sorry Peter didn’t see your last comment. Mac guy embarrassed his employer on national television did he not?

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:27 pm
Peter:

Trust me, but boeard members are the last people to know which way a stock is heading.

I would bet that more money has been lost trading on insider information than made.

Most board members are fucking useless. I’ve been given lots of what I would consider inside info over the years and I just let it go and not act on it. These almost always small firms.

one reason is that it’s a serious infraction that could end up getting you in the soup. If you’ve been told, how many other people are going to get dragged in the net.

These guys are almsot always bullish and think their stock is heading to the moon, so most times it’s useless information.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:28 pm
SDFC:

How are you feeling about the global stimulus programs now seeing everyone’s going broke? They worked, you reckon?

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:30 pm
JC

Board members are quite good as a source for planned acquisitions, divestments, and so on.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:33 pm
sdfc

I have not changed my opinion on Macquarie Bank as a result of this, have you?

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:34 pm
“Mac guy embarrassed his employer”

No. They’re traders. They need to walk into interviews with their tackle out and spouting how they would eat the next guys kids. I’d expect nothing less. I bet the Macquarie chicks are equally red blooded.

It was free publicity. Is anyone going to say…”I’m not going to become a private wealth client with Macquarie because their employee was looking at pics that usually grace the Sunday Telegraph”? or are they going to look at their total return on managed funds and think “maybe these guys are o.k”?

Truth be told, he should be whipped for idleness. When he was gratifying himself, he could have made major cash with a short on the SPI.

Semi Regular Libertarian

5 Feb 10 at 7:37 pm
Yea, which is exactly the stuff yoo never ever want to touch with the 10 foot pole as you can easily get found out and end up in jail.= in addition to a couple of million dollars in legal bills.’

there are so many better ways to make money.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:37 pm
JC I have to admit I don’t know what stimulus packages the PIIGS and others have implemented, but I suspect their budget positions were shit going into the crisis.

Australia is not going broke and the majority of the US stimjulus package is yet to be implemented, they when into the crisis with a structural deficit, the huge increase in the US deficit has been largely cyclical courtesy of Mr Bush.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:38 pm
jc

Which is what I said above. Such insider trading is stupid, whereas reading GQ – in which, by the way, MacBank advertises – is not.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:40 pm
So if Barry Brook “absolutely nails the debate” why do you deny AGW and support Abbott, Minchin, Plimer, Monckton and CL?

rog

5 Feb 10 at 7:44 pm
What do you make of it. SDFC. IT looks to me that the market doesn’t believe the “Grecians” as Bush would say.

It looks like pretty bad shit to me.

I keep maintaining that the only way out for Japan and Europe is to QE is large licks as their economies are too inflexible otherwise.

————–

I head a very depressing tale about Japan recently. Someone I dude I know was visiting a Japanese plant and was shocked at how backward they appeared in terms of the technology they were using. This wasn’t a small bananas firm either.

The Japanese manager told the guy that they were basically living on borrowed time and that they had no money to update.

———–

The PIGS are basically telegraphing the beginning of the end of the welfare state as far as I’m concerned.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 7:45 pm
Director buying is not a good guide however some directors have made a mozza by buying during a down turn.

But using it as a general guide? – nah

rog

5 Feb 10 at 7:47 pm
jc/sdfc

I think the reason why I have a flea in my ear about this, is the speed and ferocity with which the screeches of “inappropriate”, “misogyny”, “sexism” etc. were so reflexively hurled.

This sort of unthinking angry response might have served political purposes decades ago when women were quite rightly trying to get page 3 girls from The Sun taken down from the tea room. But in 2010, young professional women – well all young women and men – were not born into that world.

If you have any connection to teenagers and kids in their twenties nowadays, they are relatively androgynous compared to our burping, farting, and balls-scratching youth. And their knowledge and exposure to sexual images, conversation, acts, makes our generation look like a sad bunch of 19th century Victorians.

I think it is time for some grown-up reflection of how ‘appropriate’ – indeed healthy – this censoriousness and reflexive outrage at revelations of an uncovered table leg really are for the evolved realities of 2010.

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 7:48 pm
No Peter I haven’t changed my opinion of Mac but that is not the point. They saw the publicity as negative and quite rightly “counselled” him about it. That counselling may just have been a “don’t do it again” I don’t know. But to expect them not to make noises about at least counselling him is just plain naive.

And yes he was stupid to not be aware of his surroundings. Who knows maybe his clock was wrong. I don’t care. He needs to wake up.

SRL

Maybe he made a mistake but if any trader/dealer was that inattentive on a regular basis I’d be concerned.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:52 pm
Is he a trader?

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 7:54 pm
Rog:

I like Barry Brook because his intellectual honesty is faultless.

He believes the issue of AGW is serious (so do I actually) however he doesn’t douse it in religious terms. He intellectualizes it in the same way i approach it or like to see it being approached which is through cold hard science and economics.

He also argues that the way to get to zero emissions is to develop technology… more then likely nuclear- that will produce energy abundantly and cheaper than coal. That is potentially doable , you know, over the next 20 years.

The Koreans, using Westinghouse technology, are building two reactors in Abu Dhabi where the cost of energy output is is around $3200 per unit from memory, whereas ours is around 2400 per unit with coal.

These are the first of the 3rd generation plants and through scaling and standardization the cost ought to fall dramatically over the years.

Now back to your questions:

So if Barry Brook “absolutely nails the debate” why do you deny AGW and support Abbott, Minchin, Plimer, Monckton and CL?

1. I don’t “deny” AGW and as I said I think it’s serious long term.

2. I mentioned why I said i side with Brook. I also think he is about as close to being the foremost academic to speak about the subject in the country.

3. I like Monckton as I think that although he may be wrong he’s also on the side of the angels in terms of not wanting to do harm to poor people. As Barry said in the linked debate, Monckton actually agreed with a lot of his views especially about replacing existing energy with a cheaper alternative and the AGW is a risk management problem.

4. I think Plimer’s book is crap and changed my mind about him.

5. I like Abbott’s approach more than I like the Rudd’s as I think the ETS is a shitful policy. Both Rudd and Tanner have also admitted that they are using it as a redistribution policy. I also like Abbott because he is unapologetic about freer labor markets.

6. I like Minchin because he has guts, conviction
and is pro-market. I don’t agree with him on the issue of AGW.

7. I like a number of sceptics because they’re not behaving like cult members and people like McIntyre for instance are very smart and provide a useful service inn terms trying to cull the creeps out of the debate.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:05 pm
jc

I used to have some money invested in financial securities, but I liquidated it all to put into my house, early 2007. I didn’t strictly need the cash, but I was convinced of the disaster awaiting the Coalition due to Workchoices, and the economic uncertainty that would follow, especially with Labor’s inevitable rolling back.

I decided the opportunity cost was on average very low of switching the wealth to residential property – my place of residence – and a bit for some spit and polish on some investment property. Anyway, I had no financial assets left by about 2007.

My timing was all luck, and no cleverness. My wife was at first very uncomfortable with transferring all our worth into property, which she thought was going to go down with the inevitable popping of the US property bubble. I won the argument, ultimately. THANK GOD!

Peter Patton

5 Feb 10 at 8:10 pm
Director buying is not a good guide however some directors have made a mozza by buying during a down turn.

But using it as a general guide? – nah

Yea but that’s the trouble, how and when do you know when to buy.

Look at Goldman’s results. They busted out when they reported early this month for the last quarter. The fucking stock never saw daylight from that point. IF you had bough the stock because Blanfien told you of their great result you’d be in the shit now.

That’s why I said earlier that the last people to listen are senior guys as their always bullish.

I still maintain that more money has been lost than made trading on insider information… I reckon.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:10 pm
oops Blankfien…

Bird will have a heart attack over this….

Birdie I think they are the best firm in the world at the present time…. by far.

Watch him go apeshit.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:12 pm
JC I don’t know aboout Japan and Europe and QE.

Their banking systems are carrying loads of bad assets, QE hasn’t really worked in Japan.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:13 pm
I keep maintaining that the only way out for Japan and Europe is to QE is large licks as their economies are too inflexible otherwise.
.
JC, I would like to hear more. Could you explain this remark?
.
The PIGS are basically telegraphing the beginning of the end of the welfare state as far as I’m concerned.
.
That one was pretty cryptic, too.

daddy dave

5 Feb 10 at 8:14 pm
SDFC.
I think the Japanese are being very stingy with QE. I saw a Morgan Stanley report recently charting the levels of QE and japan has been the least aggressive.

I basically think they’re fucked. I have a smallish core short Yen position that I will only get rid of below 85 as I think the yen is heading to 150-200 over the next decade. I’ll stay short a long time. I also shorted JGB’s. I hope to suitably retire once I get going with this trade and raise the bet as (if it comes my way).

I think it’s the bet of the decade.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:19 pm
never mind I found everything I needed to know with the help of google.

daddy dave

5 Feb 10 at 8:20 pm
“Maybe he made a mistake but if any trader/dealer was that inattentive on a regular basis I’d be concerned.”

I recommended a particularly antediluvian personnel policy to be enforced, didn’t I? Or is a whipping too lenient for you?

Semi Regular Libertarian

5 Feb 10 at 8:23 pm
I haven’t looked at the Japanese money figures for a while so I’ll take your word for that.

I wasn’t talking about during the GFC, the Japanese were the pioneers of QE and its never really worked for them because their banking system is shit.

A decade? How far out is the expiry of your option? I think your bet is going to end up way out of the money?

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:31 pm
SRL – Are you trying to tell me some employers whip their employees?

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:35 pm
Dads:

PIGS is the acronym in the markets for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Funny hey. I think Goldman’s first coined it. hahahahahha

————-

QE means quantitative easing, which is central bank, speak for printing money. It has a nicer ring to it than that raw action .. money printing.

Money printing doesn’t actually happen unless there is demand for notes. It happens by the central bank buying bonds either from the market or the Treasury of the government. Either way money flows in to the system.

I think that Europe and Japan need to print money, as I honestly can’t see how on earth they can get of their problems. The PIGS with Italy being a lesser exception owe billions of Euros and have chronic budget deficits. Their economies (in fact the economies of Japan and Western Europe) are basically inflexible and can’t adjust say wages and prices downward to the extent required, so the only way they can ‘adjust” I believe is to inflate the value of the debt.

The EU can of course throw the PIGS out of the union, which can end up being a likely scenario of the decade if they don’t repair their budgets.

Japan is a special case. It has appalling demographics and a debt to GDP ratio of 230%. The standard rule for countries veering off into the never land is a GDP ratio of 90%. Japan has been able to hold on primarily because they are self -financing and have internal rules directing their pension system buy bonds.

This is where it gets interesting. In about 2 years time the Japanese pension system will be required to beginning selling bonds as they begin to meet retirement demands as more leaves than is coming in from younger savers. The end result is both the pension scheme and the government will be sellers of bonds while the domestic savings rate heads to negative territory.

The only alternative for Japan will end up being that they hyper inflate or default which both actions sort of amount to the same thing.

This is the first clue that the welfare state is heading for the rocks.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:39 pm
I keep rolling the bet as I don’t have them as option plays. The costing of financing isn’t that heavy anyways. Both US and Japanese rates are close to zero so it doesn’t matter much.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:43 pm
Well any option betting on 150 to 200 yen to the dollar is bound to be cheap.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:46 pm
I wasn’t talking about during the GFC, the Japanese were the pioneers of QE and its never really worked for them because their banking system is shit.

They actually did very little at the time and not enough to overwhelm their rigidities.

Japanese QE at the beginning of the decade is almost a myth as the amount they did didn’t count for crap.

the gambled on the fact that they could get away with it and the economy would repair itself and take off. They actually did repair the banking system but didn’t do any real reform of the economy and the budget position.

I think its too late even for reform now. They’re road kill.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:46 pm
thanks for indulging me with that enlightening and cogent summary JC.

daddy dave

5 Feb 10 at 8:48 pm
Well any option betting on 150 to 200 yen to the dollar is bound to be cheap.

Cheap? Depends what you call cheap. Timing is against you for option plays.

Look I’ve always hated options because not only do you have to get the right direction but you also need to be pretty good with timing.

It doesn’t mean I don’t play them.

The most depressing trading I ever had was buying a call option on the aussie struck at 90 cents when volatility was dirt cheap and got out too early.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 8:53 pm
So JC your saying the 600 odd percent increase in bank current account balances wasn’t big enough. What is the difference (apart from a bias against government spending) between that and those people who say fiscal stimulus hasn’t been enough?

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:58 pm
Big enough if you didn’t guess.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 8:59 pm
If I recall correctly the Japanese QE amounted to about 3% over a 2 year period.

It’s hardly what I would call big, SDFC. In fact they were downright stingy as they believed that it would hurt the retirees, forgetting that it’s the national growth rate trajectory that means everything.

They tried lots of bridges to nowhere and underutilized airports with the end result being an enormous debt problem and no growth prospects as the economy is literally choking under debt.

Japan is exhibit A in not doing any stimulus spending and that a lot of the hurried infrastructure spending ends up being wasted… totally wasted.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 9:07 pm
Current account balances went from 5 trillion to around 33 trillion in three years.

http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/trends/2008/1208/01intmar.cfm

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 9:14 pm
Yes, but demand for money was in a recessionary state and the policy basically assumed that by raising balances demand would follow.

In other words I believe it was a very flawed policy of QE. The BOJ didn’t really try to expand it’s balance sheet through asset buying programs and they didn’t enact an inflation target preferring instead to continue with it ad hoc policy.

In my mind what they did was the equivalent of leaving $100,000 nicely packed in the letter box and hoping someone would find and take it.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 9:20 pm
So we’re in agreement, QE doesn’t work when the supply and demand for credit is in a dysfunctional state.

I’ve made this point on several occasions on this blog and have been poo-pooed every time. The reason for central banks buying securities is to increase high powered money, the Japanese did this.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 9:30 pm
No we are not in agreement, SDFC. A dysfunctional state is not defined by alack of demand for balances, as all that does is simply indicate there is a recession out there.

You won’t borrow if you see there’s no demand for your goods or services and you won’t borrow if you still think the price of real estate is going to continue to fall.

This is why there are other ways of working around zero interest rates.

The CB can go out and buy private assets… non government bonds etc. It can also put an inflation target into place. The Japanese didn’t do this.

Incidentally they are now even more fucked as their one prime corporate name is in real fucking trouble with various mechanics of the cars they produce. Toyota is basically fucked. Combined with that the Yen is strengthening.

Toyota known for its quality control is now in serious deep water as they just lost their one major part of their franchise… great quality control.

Now they are

JC

5 Feb 10 at 9:39 pm
Your totally in agreement with me in terms of the demand for credit during a recessionary period. The deeper the downturn the more depressed the demand fro credit. This excacerbated if the supply of demand is tight.

The Fed is having a similar problem to the BOJ.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 9:49 pm
You’re – I’ve really have to start proof reading.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 9:50 pm
I’m not in agreement with you as I think the BOJ enacted the wrong methods and was too stingy.

I have already explained the reason why.

Of course demand for credit is low in a recession depending on its severity.

The fed isn’t having the same problems as they purchased a large quantity of assets and vel is now turning around…. though I rally think v is just a marker signaling recession.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 10:19 pm
So QE would have worked if only they’d tried harder?

Base money up 600%, not enough?

The Fed’s purchsing MBS from Fannie, Freddie and Ginnie to keep to housing credit flowing. And you’re against nationalisation?

It gets better and better.

sdfc

5 Feb 10 at 10:29 pm
Anyone want to donate to the peace blimp?
http://www.peaceblimp.com/

tal

5 Feb 10 at 10:37 pm
SDFC:

<iThe Fed’s purchsing MBS from Fannie, Freddie and Ginnie to keep to housing credit flowing. And you’re against nationalisation?
It gets better and better.

Get off your donkey and listen harder and learn.

Fred and Fan were basically nationalized institutions anyway. How the fuck do you think they could have managed to secure financing at basically the bond rate while each leveraged at 125:1 if there wasn’t an implicit guarantee and people didn’t believe it was there?

So how is that basically nationalization to take over the assets or parts there of?… Keep in mind that equity holder were basically wiped out.

i>So QE would have worked if only they’d tried harder?
Base money up 600%, not enough?

“Not enough” is not the point, which you seem unable to understand for some reason. The banks were prepared to lend after they were cleaned up, however there were little takers, so it wasn’t a point that the financial system was “dysfunctional”. As I said there other things the CB can do around ZIRP such as introduce an inflation target and buy private assets which they didn’t do.

You really are obssessed with building stupid toilets aren’t you?

JC

5 Feb 10 at 10:41 pm
I just shot a few dollars at the Peace Blimp, Tal.

C.L.

5 Feb 10 at 11:07 pm
When we’ve ended the war we’ll get a End Poverty blimp

tal

5 Feb 10 at 11:19 pm
CL:

Lambert is at this blog calling people obsessive and turning himself into the eternal victim again.

http://jarrahjob.net/?p=411#comment-6389

He’s very upset at being caught out again for lying. He hates that.

He’s now saying that he was only parodying Rose. He didn’t lie about him.

JC

5 Feb 10 at 11:30 pm
“6. I like Minchin because he has guts, conviction and is pro-market. I don’t agree with him on the issue of AGW.”

Minchin is known as a nice guy (meaning he has the numbers) but hasnt a clue otherwise. He was behind Workchoices which was a total failure. He testified that smoking wasnt addictive or harmful, which was rejected by the senate. On telcos Coonan was a far better Minister than Minchin could ever hope to be. Plimer has the ear of Minchin and Abbott which doesnt say much for their intellect.

rog

6 Feb 10 at 12:03 am
Man, this is a long thread, #518.

Anyway, given that the US share market looks like its about to tank, and given how interventionist the govt is, what are the odds they will start buying up shares to prop up the stock market?

And another thing, doesnt the US Govt have a conflict of interest in this Toyota recall business?

Capitalist Piggy

6 Feb 10 at 12:03 am
The US won’t buy stocks. Cap. It’s simply not going to happen. The crisis now seems to be shifting over the Europe and it’s a real problem as I’m not at all confident the structure of the EU can support it. Let’s wait and see.

You see the US conflict as a result of government ownership of GM?

I’m not sure the US government has been that involved in this and that a lot of the initiatives have been taken by Toyota. Isn’t that right?

Rog:

1. look, I never really knew much about Minchin until I saw him hold back on Turnbull and refusing to sign up. He obviously realized that the ETS is a dreadful policy. He doesn’t seem to be against this current one proposed by Rudd which also promises to limit emissions by the same amount without the money merry-go round and which Rudd and Tnanner have said gives out more to lower income earners making it a redistribution policy. I thought it was supposed to be about emissions, No?

2. Workchoices was bungled but I don’t think all the blame should accrue to Minchin as the PM was also involved. It was certainly better policy than what these trogs have offered up.

3. Coonan was fucking terrible as the comm minster. She was absoltuely shocking. Not as bad as Controy but still up there. I can’t comment on Minchin’s time in the portfolio as I really don’t remember him in it.

4. Do you have a link to what Minchin said about cigs as I don’t know anything about it.

5. Ok, so Minchin is listening to Plimer. They are both sceptics so it wouldn’t surprise me.

6. Abbott is simply a better PM potential than Rudd. I want Rudd gone. As I said earlier I like Abbott despite disagreeing with him on things.

In retrospect I like Turnbull, but he always seemed to be agreeing with the government on big issues. He signed up to dismantling workchoices without even whimper. Turnbull would make an excellent Treasurer and eventually PM but he’s not there yet.

You need to give Abbott a little more time, as he seems to be getting there.

A 2% uniforms swing against Rudd would see him gone. It’s not likely but it’s doable.

JC

6 Feb 10 at 12:30 am
oops
He doesn’t seem to be against this current one proposed by Abbott which also promises to limit emissions

JC

6 Feb 10 at 12:34 am
“He also argues that the way to get to zero emissions is to develop technology… more then likely nuclear- that will produce energy abundantly and cheaper than coal. That is potentially doable , you know, over the next 20 years.”

And he also argues that to do that you need to put a price on carbon. Without a price on carbon we are bogged down as nukes is an expensive option which will make the politics very hard. I know that he says that nukes can be or are cheaper but most if not all his evidence is anecdotal not actual. Costings from the US put quite a different slant to the picture.

As you say, it all boils down to the economics however it must have a convincing political argument and the Abbotts, Plimers, Moncktons and Bolts of the world are doing their damnedest to put the argument back not forward.

Barry Brooks agrees with JQ that we need 5 years of intensive investigation and debate to nut out all the issues before nukes have a chance in this country. However debate does not mean saying “nyet nyet nyet” whilst banging your shoe on a table.

I have read Brooks opinion on a CPRS however at the end of the day no-one has put forward a better alternative to putting a price on carbon, one that is internationally recognised and is market based.

rog

6 Feb 10 at 12:42 am
Minchins views are in the Senate records

rog

6 Feb 10 at 12:45 am
“A 2% uniforms swing against Rudd would see him gone. It’s not likely but it’s doable.”

Only if you get rid of the Lib front bench

rog

6 Feb 10 at 12:47 am
Whatever you think of Conroy and Coonan, Minchin was worse. Both Conroy and Coonan worked for the national interest, Minchin only works to undermine policy for political gain.

rog

6 Feb 10 at 12:52 am
Rog:

Re the cig issue.

That was 15 years ago when he said that. I recall fairly big debates in the US a little before then questioning if second-hand smoke was in fact harmful as people said.

People make mistakes. However I’ll say this. He was against further regulation and higher taxes on cigarettes which seems to be the better if less apparent policy.

Higher taxes on cigs have led the poor into smoking heavier cigarettes which simply are much worse for you as they manage to get a bigger bang per draw. There’s a decent argument to suggest that the present stance of taxing cigs at a much rate is causing more problems with people’s health.

————-

I yes we could put a price on carbon. Why not infinite. Why not push for zero emissions which i think is where we’re heading anyway over time. My hunch is that Abbott would prefer to introduce nuclear at some stage if he could.

As you say, it all boils down to the economics however it must have a convincing political argument and the Abbotts, Plimers, Moncktons and Bolts of the world are doing their damnedest to put the argument back not forward.

Ultimately Abbott will need to listen to the voters. However I despise the ETS under its current form and I’m glad Turnbull was rolled. Have you seen the Penny Wong interview with Lateline. She hasn’t got any fucking idea about the consequences of an ETS. They don’t even now themselves it seems. So we’re going to have $120 billion swirling around the economy and Wong can’t even explain her policy.

Barry Brooks agrees with JQ that we need 5 years of intensive investigation and debate to nut out all the issues before nukes have a chance in this country. However debate does not mean saying “nyet nyet nyet” whilst banging your shoe on a table.

The problem with the current debate about nuke is that we approach it with a jaundiced eye. We subsidize bullshit technology like solar and wind etc. and we look for ways to regulate nuke to the point of overkill. That’s hardly a level playing field. Nuclear will dramatically drop in price as long as people are prepared to give it a chance and not regulate to death, which is where a huge portion of the costs come from.

Look solar or wind will be gone in 20 odd years. They’re both a deplorable alternative. Extracting energy from those two technologies is problematic as the input source is weak and transient. No matter how much we try to improve them the wind is what it is and so is the sun. Furthermore they destabilize the grid.

I have read Brooks opinion on a CPRS however at the end of the day no-one has put forward a better alternative to putting a price on carbon, one that is internationally recognised and is market based.

Well yes there is a better alterative to the ETS. Simply adopt Humphreys proposal of taxing carbon and giving it back as tax cuts.

JC

6 Feb 10 at 1:14 am
Conroy wants to control the web and effectively censure it.

No one is as bad as that fucker.

Controy wants to spend $43 billion on a turkey when the US is already implementing 4G wireless networks.

Are you kidding? Controy is a disaster.

JC

6 Feb 10 at 1:16 am
Dennis Shanahan outlines why Rudd’s failed ETS scheme has become a train wreck.

C.L.

6 Feb 10 at 2:20 am
so 1/2 the the voters will be compensated for the hits taken in the ETS.

1. Whats the point of the ETS if 50% receive full compensation as Combet suggests?

2. Why are the other 1/2 having money indirectly taken from their pocket and redistributed to the other 1/2?

3. They don’t even know their own policy.

Rudd’s basically fucked it.

JC

6 Feb 10 at 2:27 am
Top economist says Obama even gets Keynes wrong.

if Keynes were alive today, what would he think of President Obama’s fiscal policies?

He would roll over in his grave if he could see the things being done in his name. Keynes was opposed to large structural deficits. He thought that they chilled rather than stimulated the economy. It’s true that we’re stuck with large deficits now. The goal should be to reduce them, not to take on new spending that makes them worse.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/news/economy/meltzer_keynes.fortune/index.htm?section=money_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_latest+%28Latest+News%29

JC

6 Feb 10 at 2:52 am
JC: You see the US conflict as a result of government ownership of GM?

I’m not sure the US government has been that involved in this and that a lot of the initiatives have been taken by Toyota. Isn’t that right?

CP: There has been govt involvment:

CHICAGO — The US transportation chief’s public rebukes of Toyota’s handling of a massive safety recall have raised eyebrows, given the US government’s major stake in rivals General Motors and Chrysler.

“The optics are terrible because — and this is what happens when a government owns a company – the two companies that are going to gain the most out of this are General Motors and Chrysler,” said Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland’s business school.

“But their behavior is consistent with the general policy of the US government, whether it’s dealing with coffeemakers or cars.”

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5im7AzPBsRb2Q_qT0FXa8DxrjjLwA

Capitalist Piggy

6 Feb 10 at 7:21 am
After re-reading the article, I noticed a second conflict of interest:

Weston Konishi, an expert on Japan at the Mansfield Foundation think-tank, said he doubted either Washington or Tokyo wanted the Toyota flap to escalate.

“Toyota is now a real stakeholder in the US economy — think of its auto plants and jobs — so trying to score points against it would be somewhat self-defeating,” he added.

Capitalist Piggy

6 Feb 10 at 7:25 am
I’ve opened up a new open forum thread.

Sinclair Davidson

6 Feb 10 at 8:16 am

Catallaxy Files

Open Forum January 30, 2010

533 Responses to 'Open Forum January 30, 2010'

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