Australia's leading libertarian and centre-right blog
Barnaby Joyce has an op-ed in the Australian.
Debt is less of a problem when it is backed by an asset that is readily exchangeable to restore the wealth of the public coffers. However, I do not know how exchangeable the ceiling insulation will be when we need to repay the debt.
Previous posts on Joyce and debt are here and here.
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time.
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yes, Barnaby still doesn’t understand the subject.
does he still think we or the State will default?
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 11:31 am
Debbie:
Barn door hasn’t at any stage confused sovereign default with personal bankruptcy, so your question is quite stupid in fact.
Here’s the thing though: people living in crystal houses shouldn’t be throwing stones.
Defending Mark Latham use of the term skanke ho suggesting it meant an Asian warlord’s wife and your disturbingly emotional defense of Nazi economics would cause a sane person to think that you ought to be laying low every time someone’s comments come’s up for criticism.
If we took a national poll matching your comments with Barn door or fact any other stupid comment you would be national champion for years on running.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 11:39 am
Forrest lie you is an idiot who doesn’t understand basic economics.
As an accountant he should understand the budget uses accrual accounting. He also should know that the government has financial assets.
Perhaps he could ask himself why the first projects gross debt figure of almost $300b will probably be revised to around $200b.
Oh yes you still say Mark Latham knew the rap version of Skanky Ho but what evidence do you provide apart from of course Statman’s infamous trendy Eastern Suburbs dinner party joke.
This is contradicted by the Latham diaries and by both of Lawrence’s staffers at the time.
Yes evidence and our Forrest are two different things.
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 11:47 am
Forrest lie you is an idiot who doesn’t understand basic economics.
Homer lie you is an idiot who doesn’t understand basic English.
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Debbie:
from now on you will be dealt with severely for incoherent drivel. we’ve had more than enough of this shit.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 12:09 pm
Barnaby has announced that Rudd’s “insulation” stimulus is the biggest lemon since the P76.
LOL!
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 12:11 pm
CL – Hasn’t Joyce also tripped over his own tongue on several occasions? Why do the Hokum Right always produce verbal idiots? And seem to think it a virtue?
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Shall we list Dubya’s long list of unintentional stand-up routines? The guy’s a genius, in an idiot savant kinda way.
Adrien
25 Feb 10 at 12:18 pm
Shorter Adrien: It’s Bush’s fault barn door tripped up.
Ever listened to Controy?
JC
25 Feb 10 at 12:20 pm
Bush? Bush is a Martin Luther King Jr of articulacy compared to the doofus who carts a teleprompter around with him to address sixth graders. He’s the man who promised in 2008 to make the oceans go down. His Veep said he watched President Roosevelt on television in 1929. Barnaby’s opposite number recently said he doesn’t bother crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s when it comes to spending billions of dollars.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 12:28 pm
Look Adrien, I’m not an unquestioning fan of Barnaby by any means but I do detest the urban-latte snobbery about him. How anyone even notices his colourful utterances when we’ve got a government full of epic bone-heads like Peter Garrett, Joel Fitzgibbon, Wayne Swan and Stephen Conroy beggars belief.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 1:05 pm
Speaking of debt and the culture of Rudd:
PM, Gillard in $1800 canapes bill spat.
And these are the people who mock Joyce?
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 2:00 pm
hooly Dooley the bloke doesn’t know the difference between public and private debt.
Who is advising this goose? Forrest
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 2:04 pm
“I’m scared. Catholic in chief Cardinal Conroy is trying to censor the internet and slow it down. I don’t want a direct line to the Vatican from the Crazy Cardinal’s Communications Ministry!”
We never hear this know-nothing BS about the ALP, only the Libs?
Are Catholic ALP voters self hating?
I think we all know the answer to that. Why else would Keating be so grumpy?
Semi Regular Libertarian
25 Feb 10 at 2:06 pm
“hooly Dooley the bloke doesn’t know the difference between public and private debt.
Who is advising this goose? Forrest”
Actually Barnaby explictly said he doesn’t have a problem with private money holes. Lefties however make this conflation ritually. But it’s evil.
More self hating from the ALP.
Semi Regular Libertarian
25 Feb 10 at 2:07 pm
At least the bug-eyed fuckwit seems to have dropped the line that we face imminent sovereign default. but obviously the country has a long way to go before sovereign debt is a problem and he is a complete tool if he wants to ramp up concerns about private foreign debt as a political issue.
Pedro
25 Feb 10 at 2:09 pm
Homer:
Can you point to the exact passage where he shows he doesn’t know the difference?
Point to it, or STFu and apologize, you miscreant.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 2:09 pm
“he is a complete tool if he wants to ramp up concerns about private foreign debt as a political issue.”
Unfortunately, Parliament is dominated by tools.
Semi Regular Libertarian
25 Feb 10 at 2:10 pm
Yes, it should be called the shed.
Pedro
25 Feb 10 at 2:14 pm
We actually face imminent champagne and canapes default.
Brought to you by the same people who burned down 96 houses.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 2:15 pm
err the first three paragraphs deal with what?
Then he talks about what?
Doesn’t he understand public debt has been projected to fall and by the next estimates it will probably be a 1/3 lower than first projected.
Golly gosh why is that
Wow what a ballooning. He should be buying Italian bonds
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 2:16 pm
…and he is a complete tool if he wants to ramp up concerns about private foreign debt as a political issue.
Actually he isn’t. In fact he really makes a decent point, which is if you want to ensure Australians continue servicing their individually large debt levels, the government shouldn’t do anything to re-regulate the labor market in case it causes a serious load of unintended consequences…. like unemployment -where servicing debt becomes a moot point when you’re earning the centrelink payment.
Here’s the thing Pedro. Barn Door sounds a little bumbling etc. But I’d much rather a bumbler with words, that understands the connection with potential problems associated with high debt servicing levels and freer labor markets (which he supports), than a smooth talking economic ignoramus like Rudd , Swan or Gillard that doesn’t.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think Barn Door is a super genius wiz or anything like that ,as I too wince when he talks. What we’re talking about here is choosing the least bad rotten tomato sitting at the bottom of the carton.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 2:20 pm
Okay so you’re saying these three paras are what gives it away that Barn Door doesn’t understand the difference between
between public and private debt.
Let’s take a lookse, shall we:
AUSTRALIA’S gross foreign debt, taking into account both the public and private sectors, is more than $1.232 trillion.
The net foreign debt is about $638 billion. It is one of the highest net debt to gross domestic product ratios in the developed world.
As Treasury official David Gruen told a Senate estimates committee recently, it is higher than the US, Japan and Britain. The only country that could be confirmed as higher than ours, at the latest estimates hearing, was New Zealand.
It doesn’t seem to me that you’re correct, Homer. Again…….
JC
25 Feb 10 at 2:24 pm
I don’t care about how he talks jc, only that he says lots of things that are dumb however they are expressed. I’m glad that he’s moved away from the Hanrahan mode and sensibly talking about the fact that public debt is a drag on growth. However, whether a given level of public debt is a good or bad idea is not principally dependent on the level of private debt and our loons and morons of both sides have form at different times when it comes to beating the private debt drum.
I think it looks like someone sensible wrote an outline for him and Barnaby then St Georged it up a bit. Any man who spent the first part of his political career suckling at Bob Katter Jnr’s teat won’t suddenly grow a brain on elevation to the front bench.
Pedro
25 Feb 10 at 2:29 pm
Forrest you idiot.
The first three paragraphs are about which debt.
The rest of the rot is about what debt. Are you blind as well as stupid?
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 2:55 pm
Is he worse that then the other three bozos, Pedro?
JC
25 Feb 10 at 2:55 pm
Debbie:
The first three paragraphs are about which debt.
Here homes, he in fact says:
AUSTRALIA’S gross foreign debt, taking into account both the public and private sectors, is more than $1.232 trillion.
The rest of the rot is about what debt. Are you blind as well as stupid?
No Homes I’m not.
I’m simply pointing out that your original assertion:
hooly Dooley the bloke doesn’t know the difference between public and private debt.
Is wrong……. again. That’s all, Homer.
Who is advising this goose?
What we really want to know is whom are you advising when you recently made this frankly horrifying suggestion that almost led me to a heart attack. I developed a fast heart rate when I read that Homer. Don’t do this shit okay.
Fess up.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 3:01 pm
If Joyce didn’t care about private foreign debt he’d have left the figures of total net debt aside and jumped to the 125b gross public figure, or even used the the net one (Which is about 53b if I’m reading the ABS’s reports right, a fair whack lower than the 1.2 trillion intro figure). But Joyce never even mentions that the govt is only responsible for 10% of the big scary figures he starts off with, nor does he ever says he doesn’t care about private debt as many here are claiming.
And his glibness about the country needing to instantly cash in HECS/School buildings someday show’s he thinks either the international financial system is about to collapse, or he doesn’t know the difference between a company and a country financially. And esp for the private debt making up most of Australia’s foreign debt is going into industries like Coal/Gas. Ie productive industries.
Though it’s odd to see the libertarians here embracing Joyce. He doesn’t support your financial positions, and like Howard in 1995 he’s only focusing on foreign debt as the biggest number on hand (that’s what the debt truck was about). As soon as the libs got in office in 1996 they switched to talking about budgetary debt and let foreign debt blow wide open.
Thats not to say it’s not an issue, (I’ve been advocating improving our high-tech industries to address this shortfall for years) I just don’t want to see you guys getting dumped and your hearts broken, should *god forbid* joyce/Abbott ever get near the Treasury offices.
Andrew Carr
25 Feb 10 at 3:03 pm
The Treasury offices were doing fine under the Liberals before Kevin and Wayne arrived and blew $42 billion on toilets and house fires.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:07 pm
Andrew – if you read through the thread you’ll find a range of views about Joyce, mostly negative. If you follow the links I provided you’ll also see that the private v public distnction has already been made. Nonetheless his views that public debt is a problem is correct.
Sinclair Davidson
25 Feb 10 at 3:08 pm
Oh dear just for our forrest.
The first three paragraphs care about Foreign Debt.
The rest of his claptrap is about public debt.
Err they are not the same.
Actually there were more housefires under Howard
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 3:11 pm
Debt settled:
Julia Gillard pays late $1800 bill for Parliament House party.
Sounds like deadbeat Kev and company they were really worried about the “Global Financial Crisis.”
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:11 pm
Actually there were more housefires under Howard.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Pete the Torch ignores 25 warnings, gets four people killed, burns down 96 houses, potentially electrifies 160,000 others and allots over $50 million to clean up another one this government’s epic bungled.
Homer’s take?
It was Howard’s fault.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:14 pm
I would hope so, he was in office for 11 years. This mob have only being two years.
Sinclair Davidson
25 Feb 10 at 3:14 pm
yeah his views are sooo correct that Deutsche Bank are forecasting “…the stock of commonwealth and semi government debt will almost certainly be insufficient for bank liquidity purposes. It is inevitable, in our view, that Supra and agency debt will be included in the pool of high quality liquid assets as a consequence. But even this will not provide a large enough pool of liquid assets for the banks, in our view, unless the liquidity buffer is kept relatively small.”
gosh that BALLOONING debt is such a problem!
Hey Sinkers given that the OZ CDS are a tad higher than the US CDS does that mean you think the government is going to default?
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 3:16 pm
Homer, can you give us one example of you criticising this government FOR ANYTHING?
Just one thing.
Go!
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:16 pm
Gee CL that is always your problem.
the Facts never fit your spin
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 3:17 pm
They fired Latham.
That would be Debbie’s only criticism.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 3:18 pm
gosh CL I was the First to really criticise their first budget mind you that has more to do with the lack of understanding of fiscal policy amongst Catallaxian crackpots
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 3:19 pm
Andrew Carr discovers politicians are “glib”.
That’s a thesis topic.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 3:22 pm
Gosh, last week I caught out Homer the critic of crackpots verballing Ian McFarlane and bungling post-war economic growth analysis. Now he’s blaming Howard for Pete the Torch’s electrocution stimulus.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:22 pm
“Though it’s odd to see the libertarians here embracing Joyce.’
If there was a perfect consensus here about any politician it would be amazing. Of the blogs I read – across the political spectrum – this one has a greater range of views about most things and people.
Of course, if you say something really dopey you are likely to get yelled at but some seem to enjoy being yelled at.
ken n
25 Feb 10 at 3:23 pm
Hey, Homer: did Jimmy Scullin or Joe Lyons have a champagne-and-canapes party during the Great Depression?
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:24 pm
Actually CL I was perfectly correct about SuperMac.
We had poor Mark attempting to forrest an equation whilst you were all washing egg off your faces.
That is the thing about your crackpots. you don’t read.
gosh fancy CL lying about what I said about howard’s record.
I did say there more fires under his reign than now.
Possum has shown that clearly.
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 3:30 pm
I’m certainly not embracing Joyce.
If you’re in an idiot gallery, you naturally choose the one least afflicted.
By signing up to freer labor markets policy, Joyce is actually seeing the danger that the present union inspired re-regulation could cause in terms of private consumer debt servicing…. in addition loading on government debt that is pushing up real rates and he’s worried.
He should be. The rest of the idiot gallery aren’t.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 3:31 pm
I for one don’t embrace Joyce. He can never live down the Birdsville amendment to the TPA. The only person I can think of whom I’d rate as a worse potential Treasurer than Joyce would be Graeme Bird.
However I suspect Abbott may be using the ‘give him enough rope to hang himself’ strategy by making him Shadow Treasury early. At least I hope so.
jtfsoon
25 Feb 10 at 3:31 pm
Barnaby also wants a prohibition on geographic price discrimination. I wrote a submission to the Senate last on this, but haven’t heard anything since.
Sinclair Davidson
25 Feb 10 at 3:34 pm
Shadow Treasury early
Is there something I don’t know? Has he been promoted from Shadow Finance? Perish the thought; is this the measure of the influence of “Catallaxian crackpots”.
dover_beach
25 Feb 10 at 3:35 pm
sorry I meant Finance
doh!
I blame Joe Hockey for being such a bloody non entity
jtfsoon
25 Feb 10 at 3:37 pm
“We had poor Mark attempting to forrest an equation whilst you were all washing egg off your faces.”
What was that idiot? Was that like when you said fiscal stimulus is contractionary?
Semi Regular Libertarian
25 Feb 10 at 3:51 pm
Actually CL I was perfectly correct about SuperMac.
Homer, you were perfectly wrong about what McFarlane actually said in the Boyer lectures about population and economic growth – as I demonstrated here.
Your lying is truly shameless.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 3:52 pm
No I thought it was the Boyer lectures it was actually much earlier as I showed. It was made in a speech in Perth when he was deputy governor.
As yes as usal you completely vchanged what I said but nevermind you wouldn’t be CL if you didin’t.
Yeah Mark, The OECD, IMF, Treasury RBA all think fiscal policy is contractionary but of course as usual you right.missed that lecture did you
Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop
25 Feb 10 at 4:10 pm
Rafe:
Homer:
I’ve found the transcript of McFarlane’s Boyer lecture. He said the exact opposite of what Homer attributed to him. He did not say economic growth dropped with population growth but, rather, that the only reason it was as high as it was is attributable to our unusually high rate of population growth.
Oops. Caught quote-doctoring, verballing Ian McFarlane and now outright lying.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 4:14 pm
CL – you left out ‘Again’.
Sinclair Davidson
25 Feb 10 at 4:19 pm
JC – Shorter Adrien: It’s Bush’s fault barn door tripped up.
.
Probably. But he is a Maxi-Dweeb who wears shoes on his tongue.
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I try not to listen to Conroy. I usually succeed. See The Australian this morning? very kool Konroy kartoon on the kover.
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CL – I’m not an unquestioning fan of Barnaby by any means but I do detest the urban-latte snobbery about him.
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Actually despite our vast differences I quite like the guy. He stands up for himself and isn’t afraid of being unpopular. But I do wonder if he’s a fiscal authority.
Adrien
25 Feb 10 at 4:20 pm
I thought his comments on the various “art” works in Parliament House were hilarious.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 4:22 pm
Re Homer’s quote doctoring:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity
jtfsoon
25 Feb 10 at 4:25 pm
“Yeah Mark, The OECD, IMF, Treasury RBA all think fiscal policy is contractionary but of course as usual you right.missed that lecture did you”
Thank fuck, I dodged a bullet.
Semi Regular Libertarian
25 Feb 10 at 4:28 pm
“Mr Squiggle’s last stand”
tal
25 Feb 10 at 4:40 pm
Barnaby on Gillard’s boyfriend was also funny.
C.L.
25 Feb 10 at 4:48 pm
Jason says:
Re Homer’s quote doctoring:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity
Great work Jase. You managed to find Occam Razer’s derivative.
Your new scientifically established finding will now be referred to as Homer’s Razor, not to replace Occam but to enhance it.
JC
25 Feb 10 at 5:23 pm
“Is he worse that then the other three bozos, Pedro?”
Maybe. It’s hard to say when you’re assessing such an array of dopes. Yes, at least barnaby can be funny.
pedro
25 Feb 10 at 7:48 pm
I’m with Adrien, Barnaby Joyce is a brainless bogan. I thought he was fun when he had some power, but now he is just a nauseating advertisement for retrospective abortion. Nevertheless, he is what the democratic process has legitimately thrown up. He has a constituency. I wish him all the very best. But preferably as the Ambassador to Lord Howe Island than as Minister for Finance.
Peter Patton
25 Feb 10 at 8:08 pm