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	<title>Comments on: Did Howard cut health spending?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/</link>
	<description>Australia&#039;s leading libertarian and centre-right blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 00:03:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21680</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21680</guid>
		<description>&#039;There were some longstanding and quite
deep-seated reasons for the predominantly
pessimistic outlook, and others which were
based mainly on the experience of the mid
1980s. I will start with the former.
The long-run decline argument
A feeling that we have declined relative to
other countries has pervaded a lot of our
thinking. The most common form of this
argument is based on long-run comparisons
of income per head among developed
countries, which showed Australia at number
one at the turn of the century, but now back
in the middle of the field. There is a feeling of
disappointment that ‘we used to be number
one, but look how far we have slipped’.
The immediate response to this line of
argument is to ask whether we were really that
good, or was there a large element of luck. It
does not take a great deal of historical
knowledge to realise that there is more
substance in the latter explanation than the
former. In a sense, we were the Kuwait of the
1890s in that we had a lot of land and a small
number of people, and we were able to
produce commodities that were relatively
highly valued.&#039;

go back to school and do the ESL classes.

you have have knocked out of the ring.
At present you are arguing black is white.
you are merely confirming you are both ignorant and idiots</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;There were some longstanding and quite<br />
deep-seated reasons for the predominantly<br />
pessimistic outlook, and others which were<br />
based mainly on the experience of the mid<br />
1980s. I will start with the former.<br />
The long-run decline argument<br />
A feeling that we have declined relative to<br />
other countries has pervaded a lot of our<br />
thinking. The most common form of this<br />
argument is based on long-run comparisons<br />
of income per head among developed<br />
countries, which showed Australia at number<br />
one at the turn of the century, but now back<br />
in the middle of the field. There is a feeling of<br />
disappointment that ‘we used to be number<br />
one, but look how far we have slipped’.<br />
The immediate response to this line of<br />
argument is to ask whether we were really that<br />
good, or was there a large element of luck. It<br />
does not take a great deal of historical<br />
knowledge to realise that there is more<br />
substance in the latter explanation than the<br />
former. In a sense, we were the Kuwait of the<br />
1890s in that we had a lot of land and a small<br />
number of people, and we were able to<br />
produce commodities that were relatively<br />
highly valued.&#8217;</p>
<p>go back to school and do the ESL classes.</p>
<p>you have have knocked out of the ring.<br />
At present you are arguing black is white.<br />
you are merely confirming you are both ignorant and idiots</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21586</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21586</guid>
		<description>Homer:

Again you were found doctoring quotes and cheating. It really is offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Homer:</p>
<p>Again you were found doctoring quotes and cheating. It really is offensive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21583</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21583</guid>
		<description>I said no such thing.
I said what Supermac said the major reason why we had a high income per capita was a low population.
what in the hell do you think Kuwait of the 1890s meant you clueless idiot.
his Boyer lectures weren&#039;t about why we had the highest income per capita during the 19th Century!
I would have thought 1950 /60 would have said something to you about that but apparently not.

This is just another subject in which you show profound ignorance and keep on despite all the data showing you are wrong.

funny about that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said no such thing.<br />
I said what Supermac said the major reason why we had a high income per capita was a low population.<br />
what in the hell do you think Kuwait of the 1890s meant you clueless idiot.<br />
his Boyer lectures weren&#8217;t about why we had the highest income per capita during the 19th Century!<br />
I would have thought 1950 /60 would have said something to you about that but apparently not.</p>
<p>This is just another subject in which you show profound ignorance and keep on despite all the data showing you are wrong.</p>
<p>funny about that!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: C.L.</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21559</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21559</guid>
		<description>Nobody has mentioned 1890, Homer. Rafe mentioned &quot;circa 1900.&quot; There was a depression in the 1890s - which apparently you&#039;re unaware of. Australia was wealthier in real terms circa 1900 than it was after the dirigiste Settlement got fully underway. This was Rafe&#039;s point. You claimed McFarlane scotched that idea by saying population was the only factor swinging prosperity our way circa 1900. McFarlane made no such claim in the Boyer lecture. He said the EXACT OPPOSITE about the role of population vis-a-vis prosperity - using the two periods comparatively. You bungled the whole subject from start to finish and verballed McFarlane.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody has mentioned 1890, Homer. Rafe mentioned &#8220;circa 1900.&#8221; There was a depression in the 1890s &#8211; which apparently you&#8217;re unaware of. Australia was wealthier in real terms circa 1900 than it was after the dirigiste Settlement got fully underway. This was Rafe&#8217;s point. You claimed McFarlane scotched that idea by saying population was the only factor swinging prosperity our way circa 1900. McFarlane made no such claim in the Boyer lecture. He said the EXACT OPPOSITE about the role of population vis-a-vis prosperity &#8211; using the two periods comparatively. You bungled the whole subject from start to finish and verballed McFarlane.</p>
<p>You ought to be ashamed of yourself.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21543</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21543</guid>
		<description>yawn,
Cl does not know the difference between 1890 and the 1950/6-s. Supermac called us the Kuwait of the 1890s.
Stop it you are simply embarrassing yourself.

However it is entirely appropriate given everyone here has yet to get any actual data on hospital expenditure by States and Federal Governments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yawn,<br />
Cl does not know the difference between 1890 and the 1950/6-s. Supermac called us the Kuwait of the 1890s.<br />
Stop it you are simply embarrassing yourself.</p>
<p>However it is entirely appropriate given everyone here has yet to get any actual data on hospital expenditure by States and Federal Governments.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: C.L.</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21537</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21537</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve already dealt with that, Homer, but as you continue to lie about it, here we go again:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/02/12/a-leftie-look-at-the-mont-pelerin-society/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rafe&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The workers were doing well in Australia circa 1900. Visitors were impressed by the fact that ordinary folk could afford to regularly eat meat. We had possibly the highest per capita income in the world but that was before the “Austrlian Settlement” between the labour movement and others, resulting in the White Australia Policy, tariff protection and central wage fixing. And a downward trend in our relative economic performance.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/02/12/a-leftie-look-at-the-mont-pelerin-society/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Homer&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The major reason we had such a high per capita income was the LOW population. Ian McFarlane talked about this in his Boyer lectures. It was always going to fall as population increased.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I found the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/rn/boyerlectures/stories/2006/1769918.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;transcript&lt;/a&gt; of McFarlane’s Boyer lecture. He said the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Homer attributed to him. He did not say economic growth dropped with population growth but, rather, that the only reason it was as high as it was must be attributed to an unusually high rate of population growth.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I realise, looking back at what I have said, that I could be accused of over-glamourising the 1950s and 1960s. To remedy this impression, I want to bring up two other considerations. 

First, Australia did not stand out at this time in comparison with other countries. While in absolute terms our performance was good, we did not grow as fast as the OECD average. In the era before the Golden Age, that is the 80 years prior to 1950, our average growth rate of 2.9% exceeded the OECD average of 2.3%, but in the period from 1950 to 1973, we slightly underperformed, growing at an average of 4.7% compared with the OECD average of 4.9%. &lt;b&gt;A close examination shows that the main reason we got so close to the OECD average was that our population and work force grew much faster than in other countries&lt;/b&gt;. This was of course the period of the great post war immigration programs. &lt;b&gt;If we take out the effects of our faster population growth by looking at the growth in GDP per capita, the underperformance by Australia is more apparent&lt;/b&gt;. In the 1950s GDP per capita in Australia rose by 1.7% per annum compared with 3.3% in the OECD area. In the 1960s we did better, with GDP per capita rising by 3.2% per annum, but still a little lower than the 3.9% for the OECD area. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Caught quote-doctoring and verballing Ian McFarlane.

No recovery is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve already dealt with that, Homer, but as you continue to lie about it, here we go again:</p>
<p><a href="http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/02/12/a-leftie-look-at-the-mont-pelerin-society/" rel="nofollow">Rafe</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The workers were doing well in Australia circa 1900. Visitors were impressed by the fact that ordinary folk could afford to regularly eat meat. We had possibly the highest per capita income in the world but that was before the “Austrlian Settlement” between the labour movement and others, resulting in the White Australia Policy, tariff protection and central wage fixing. And a downward trend in our relative economic performance.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/02/12/a-leftie-look-at-the-mont-pelerin-society/" rel="nofollow">Homer</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The major reason we had such a high per capita income was the LOW population. Ian McFarlane talked about this in his Boyer lectures. It was always going to fall as population increased.</p></blockquote>
<p>I found the <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/boyerlectures/stories/2006/1769918.htm" rel="nofollow">transcript</a> of McFarlane’s Boyer lecture. He said the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Homer attributed to him. He did not say economic growth dropped with population growth but, rather, that the only reason it was as high as it was must be attributed to an unusually high rate of population growth.</p>
<blockquote><p>I realise, looking back at what I have said, that I could be accused of over-glamourising the 1950s and 1960s. To remedy this impression, I want to bring up two other considerations. </p>
<p>First, Australia did not stand out at this time in comparison with other countries. While in absolute terms our performance was good, we did not grow as fast as the OECD average. In the era before the Golden Age, that is the 80 years prior to 1950, our average growth rate of 2.9% exceeded the OECD average of 2.3%, but in the period from 1950 to 1973, we slightly underperformed, growing at an average of 4.7% compared with the OECD average of 4.9%. <b>A close examination shows that the main reason we got so close to the OECD average was that our population and work force grew much faster than in other countries</b>. This was of course the period of the great post war immigration programs. <b>If we take out the effects of our faster population growth by looking at the growth in GDP per capita, the underperformance by Australia is more apparent</b>. In the 1950s GDP per capita in Australia rose by 1.7% per annum compared with 3.3% in the OECD area. In the 1960s we did better, with GDP per capita rising by 3.2% per annum, but still a little lower than the 3.9% for the OECD area. </p></blockquote>
<p>Caught quote-doctoring and verballing Ian McFarlane.</p>
<p>No recovery is possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21492</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 05:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21492</guid>
		<description>1890 with 1950/60</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1890 with 1950/60</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Semi Regular Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21484</link>
		<dc:creator>Semi Regular Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 05:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21484</guid>
		<description>&quot;you confuse 1890 with 950/60&quot;

???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you confuse 1890 with 950/60&#8243;</p>
<p>???</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21477</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterfield, Bloomfield &#38; Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21477</guid>
		<description>umm if the Feds used to fund hospitals 50/50 and then it is changed 40/60 then tell me what is happening.

Research isn&#039;t really a skill here at catallaxy is it!

go away CL. you confuse 1890 with 950/60 and then say half of the deficit which is due to the economy is all Obama&#039;s fault.

you are a first class dolt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>umm if the Feds used to fund hospitals 50/50 and then it is changed 40/60 then tell me what is happening.</p>
<p>Research isn&#8217;t really a skill here at catallaxy is it!</p>
<p>go away CL. you confuse 1890 with 950/60 and then say half of the deficit which is due to the economy is all Obama&#8217;s fault.</p>
<p>you are a first class dolt.</p>
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		<title>By: C.L.</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/03/08/did-howard-cut-health-spending/comment-page-1/#comment-21457</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 04:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=8498#comment-21457</guid>
		<description>First the US deficit denialism, now this.

Shame on you, Homer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First the US deficit denialism, now this.</p>
<p>Shame on you, Homer.</p>
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