Open Forum March 27, 2010 at Catallaxy Files

Open Forum March 27, 2010

443 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

March 27th, 2010 at 3:14 am

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443 Responses to 'Open Forum March 27, 2010'

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Obama refuses to dine with Jewish leader.

A good article at TNR on anti-semite Obama’s deliberate provocation of an intifada against Israel out of spite.

Understandably, The Australian reports that Netanyahu chose not to hold meetings in his Washington hotel this week. For security reasons, key talks were held in the “secure room” of the Israeli embassy.

Bows to Muslims.
Won’t dine with a Jew.

Still the loyal son of Jeremiah Wright.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 4:14 am
The big geopolitical question of the year. Now that North Korea has blown up a SK ship, whose side will Obama take?

The betting in the US is that Barry will take Kim’s side and attack South Korea.

JC1

27 Mar 10 at 6:43 am
Bows to Muslims.
Won’t dine with a Jew.
.
That’s fckin incredible. The guy is a class A prick.

daddy dave

27 Mar 10 at 8:37 am
A judge who should be celebrated

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-judge-defence-lawyers-try-to-avoid-20100326-r31n.html

Jason Soon

27 Mar 10 at 10:53 am
Jason, it’s a pity that judge wasn’t able to preside over this NT case: woman jumped off balcony with her baby to escape a torturer who had imprisoned them both.
The guy got 5 years, which means that in five years he’ll be out doing the same stuff to someone else.

daddy dave

27 Mar 10 at 11:46 am
typical of CL and our old mate Credit crunch Forrest.

Israel can do no wrong even when pinching other people’s territory.

most people who actually think have condemned Israel in their move. The timing is interesting but not our two

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

27 Mar 10 at 12:10 pm
More power to Justice Finnane.

We need more judges like that – people scumbags are scared shitless to encounter in court.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 12:37 pm
Jerusalem isn’t ‘other people’s territory’, Homer, you historically illiterate, evangelical brown shirt.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 12:40 pm
Nice work coppers. World’s best driver charged:

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2010/03/27/Formula_One_star_car_impounded_444699.html

Infidel Tiger

27 Mar 10 at 12:48 pm
Jim Hoft has a photographic reminder of people Obama is happy to dine with.

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/obama-refuses-to-dine-with-jewish-leader/

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 12:48 pm
Jim Hoft has a photographic reminder of people Obama is happy to dine with.

Jim Hoft is obviously a dishonest turd, claiming that academic Edward Said is an ‘anti-Israel activist’.

And merely talking to people is not ‘bowing’ to them.

All aid to Israel should be cut immediately, or made conditional on good behaviour.

THR

27 Mar 10 at 1:30 pm
The second-worst president in American history (thanks Barry), anti-semitic hillbilly Jimmy Carter, weighs in:

Carter Wants Obama to Remove Hamas from Terror List.

“Hamas leaders want peace and they want to have reconciliation not only with their Fatah brothers but also eventually with Israelis to live side by side, with two nations, both sovereign nations recognized by each other and living in peace,” Carter said.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 1:39 pm
Good column from Sheridan on “Barack Obama’s anti-Israel jihad.”

Obama’s anti-Israeli hysteria dangerous and destructive.

Sheridan notes that Rudd should follow the leadership provided by Tony Abbott and resist emulating the concocted vapours of the Brown government in the UK.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 1:46 pm
Is that your feet I can see sticking out from Abbott’s pink lycra suit legs, CL?

By the way, how’s this story grab you?:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/a-very-modern-military-partnership-1928748.html

steve from brisbane

27 Mar 10 at 2:22 pm
Looks like Steve Heffernen is going to continue his anti-homosexual dog-whistling jihad for a second day.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 3:12 pm
How’d you like to be stuck in a shout with these wankers.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 4:48 pm
“I’ll have a beer the ladies will have Shirley Temples thanks, barkeep.”

Infidel Tiger

27 Mar 10 at 4:52 pm
Tyler Cowan on AD stimulation:

“There is an asymmetry between layoffs and rehires. If an economy starts heading into recession, robust aggregate demand may limit the number of layoffs. But once those workers are laid off, robust aggregate demand won’t necessarily lead to their rehiring. The employer already has figured out how to do without those workers and the production process has “moved on,” so to speak. Few employers are looking to recreate the status quo ex ante.”

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/03/why-aggregate-demand-stimulation-becomes-less-effective-as-a-recession-continues.html

pedro

27 Mar 10 at 7:23 pm
One of the many different ways to express absolute wankerdom:

“I think green sex is having its moment right now. I think it is the next big thing in green. People are realizing that their every day, most intimate habits, are deeply connected to this horrible crisis we are in,”

Found on Marginal Revolution http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62M2WR20100323

pedro

27 Mar 10 at 7:25 pm
Green sex is good.

Sinclair Davidson

27 Mar 10 at 7:33 pm
I find this pretty hilarious. CL is now Mr Sensitive on gay stories because, well, his hero is so sensitive now.

steve from brisbane

27 Mar 10 at 8:00 pm
Oh Dear

tal

27 Mar 10 at 8:01 pm
No Steve, I’ve never had any real interest in the pretend “marriage” ceremonies that homosexuals may choose to celebrate. They can jump over broom sticks in parks or at the beach and I really couldn’t care less. Like Abbott, I know they’re not actually married – which is what the Opposition Leader was condemned by a gay rights group for repeating 24 hours ago.

What’s hilarious is that you started off condemning Abbott for being anti-modern and now – having had your talking point spoiled (yet again – see also the ETS) – you’ve spent two days running a gay hatred dog-whistling campaign that would embarrass Bill Heffernan.

Incidentally, outwardly acknowledged sodomy in the British army isn’t exactly a new development – wedding cake and Liza Minnelli tunes notwithstanding.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 8:15 pm
The Obama intifada escalates.

Worst president ever.

C.L.

27 Mar 10 at 10:20 pm
Really great piece at EU referendum how the warminist agenda has basically hijacked environmental issues and sucked the life out of dealing with really serious environmental problems such as localized pollution.

Look at the pic in the piece.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/03/environmentalism-has-been-hijacked-by.html

JC1

28 Mar 10 at 12:44 am
EU Referendum is damned right. Third world countries like India are getting off the hook easily by blaming the white man for AGW and deliberately ignoring serious environmental issues in their country that could make huge differences to the population if they were dealt with instead of allowing buddies to make a quick buck.

JC1

28 Mar 10 at 12:53 am
Really great piece at EU referendum how the warminist agenda has basically hijacked environmental issues and sucked the life out of dealing with really serious environmental problems such as localized pollution.
.
I’ve been saying that for ages.
My pro-AGW friends explain that even if I’m right, and AGW is a crock, that it’s still a good vehicle for reducing pollution.
But they’re wrong. The opposite is true.
AGW has swallowed the entire portfolio of envrionmental concerns. They have invested too heavily in this issue.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 10:21 am
Buzz growing for Paul Ryan.

Watch the clip of Ryan humiliating Obama at the health summit.

http://trueslant.com/williamdupray/2010/03/26/people-who-know-paul-ryan-say-he-will-be-president-one-day/

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 11:55 am
CL guess how many people lived in Jerusalem that were purely Palestinian christians in 1922 you twit.

Stop being a propagandist for the Israeli government.

Tyler Cowen is wrong.

the employer has a certain number of employees with his expected level of demand.
if demand increases and it is expected to further increase more employees are put on the payroll.

the only time they wouldn’t be if they though the increase in demand was temporary

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

28 Mar 10 at 12:08 pm
Homer thinks Jerusalem was founded in 1922.

Did you get that from Possum or Joe Biden?

And don’t try playing the Palestinian Christian card, Mr Boyer. Your friends in Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah are responsible for the exodus of Christians from the Middle East.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 12:17 pm
Keynesian fail watch:

The local version ended with four deaths, 120 incinerated houses (so far) and constitutes the worst public policy debacle in Australian history. The New York Times is now forced to report that the weatherisation scheme in the US stimulus has also been a complete failure.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 12:20 pm
Who is talking about when Jersualm was founded.

on your absurd logic the aboriginals must own all of Asutralia.

oops how many homes were burnt down before out of how many that got insulation.

gool old Circa strikes agian

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

28 Mar 10 at 12:25 pm
oh and only a complete idiot would say Palestinian Christians have been driven from Jerusalem by Hamas, Hizbollah and Fatah or a person who had no understanding who has lived in Jerusalem for the last 100 years

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

28 Mar 10 at 12:28 pm
CL, could you imagine anyone in our pathetic piss weak excuse for a government ever speaking like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwk1aHU-pms

Michael Sutcliffe

28 Mar 10 at 12:51 pm
Homer, Christians are exiting the Middle East because of Islamist extremism.

Only an anti-semitic evangelical lunatic would claim they were fleeing from the Jews.

Jerusalem wasn’t founded in 1922 – which appears to be the advice you’ve received from house fire expert, Possum.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 1:07 pm
American history’s worst deficit bum:

CBO estimates $9.8 trillion in deficits over 10 years.

Also, under the president’s budget debt held by the public would grow from $7.5 trillion or 53 percent of GDP at the end of 2009 to $20.3 trillion, or 90 percent of GDP, at the end of 2020.

Thanks, Barack!

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 1:13 pm
Talking point fail:

Health Minister Nicola Roxon says she admires Mr Abbott’s willingness to compete in the triathlon.

But she told the ABC’s Insiders program the time he has spent training might have been better spent on developing policy.

“It is a lot of time,” she said.

“I think it’s a fair question to say, does that amount of time actually have an impact on the lack of policy development that we are seeing for the Opposition?”

Reported today:

Federal Health Minister Nicola Roxon says she is horrified by reports of an increase in assaults and sexual assaults in aged care nursing homes.

Fairfax newspapers say health department figures show assaults are up by 50 per cent and sexual assaults are up by 36 per cent.

Nice policy work, Nicola. Perhaps if she worked on this crisis rather than appear on Sunday television, we might have a solution.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 1:20 pm
CL, all this week the government has been concerned about Abbott going for a jog….meanwhile schools don’t get built and homes burn down.Great.

tal

28 Mar 10 at 1:33 pm
BBB

I don’t know why you bother with the apologists for Israeli oppression of the indigenous population of Palestine. Only a religious nutter would believe the Palestinians don’t have claim to Jerusalem.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 1:46 pm
Only a religious nutter would believe the Palestinians don’t have claim to Jerusalem
.
It’s about race, huh? Why does a certain RACE have claim to a city where people not of that race currently live?
riddle me that one, sdfc.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 1:55 pm
Only anti-semites believe the Jews shouldn’t build homes in Jerusalem. That includes evangelical hillbillies like Jimmy carter and Jeremiah Wright disciple Barack Obama whose deliberately incited intifada has already caused several deaths.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 2:00 pm
Okay, I did my homework and watched some footage of both Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. I can see why Romney has been the front runner until now but Ryan is the better candidate. He has, what’s that old expression? “Fire in the belly.”
He really is dynamic. Romney’s not old by any means, but he’s in his sixties, while Ryan’s in his forties. You can see the difference in energy.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 2:04 pm
Romney’s a robotic bore. He addressed the RNC convention in 08 and the whole audience nearly fell asleep.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 2:55 pm
The intellects of the AFL.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 2:58 pm
Granted a few of those players have room temp IQs, but a good percentage of them were also taking the piss. Bolt’s famous Dutch sense of humour wouldn’t be able to see that.

Infidel Tiger

28 Mar 10 at 3:11 pm
DD

I didn’t think race (why the capitals?)came into it. Or are the Palestinians no longer olassified as Semitic? As far as I know there is only one group currently being evicted from their homes in Jerusalem. Your question kind of turns in on itself.

The religious nutters think it is quite alright to evict a certain group from their homes in Jerusalem based purely on their religion.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 3:41 pm
I didn’t think race (why the capitals?)came into it.
.
The capitals were because I was lazy and couldn’t be bothered italicising.
Anyway to the main point; you introduced race by asserting that Palestinians had the right to Jerusalem.
As for the evictions, I really wish you lefties would stop using that example, it really does show bad faith. Yes, some Palestinians are being evicted from their homes as the result of a high court ruling. It’s not rooted in any race-based government policy or military action, which someone not familiar with the situation might reasonably assume.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 4:06 pm
Only anti-semites believe the Jews shouldn’t build homes in Jerusalem

Here’s the kernel of the problem. One side of the debate argues by way of nothing more than slander, in the last resort. In reality, no US government of recent times could seriously be called anti-semitic, given that Israel is the biggest recipient of US aid in the world. The only President who could come close would be Nixon, who did reportedly hold some crank views on Jews.

Contra CL and DD, when the Israelis build settlements in Jerusalem that expand into Palestinian territory, it’s a little more complex than Delphin homes setting up shop. Large sectors of the Israeli people have no support for the settlements, and the settlements tend to attract only the most rabid, racist, proto-fascist fringe of the settler movement. In addition, each expansion is accompanied by repression by the Israeli state, in addition to widespread destruction of Palestinian lives and property.

By asking Netanyahu to refrain from further expansion, Obama was not baing an ‘anti-semite’, he was merely asking the Israelis to act in good faith to bring about peace. It’s a mild and reasonable request, and one that, if honoured, would not harm the Israelis in any way. In response, Netanyahu has showed only contempt for his US benefactors, (without whom Israel would be another backwater for camel jockeys), and should be treated accordingly.

THR

28 Mar 10 at 4:26 pm
sdfc

The phrase “anti-Semitic” was neither invented or used to refer to Arabs. It was invented by 19th century German Jew-haters, at just the time when European (particularly German) philologists were mastering the interconnections between and uniqueness of language family groups. Hebrew was part of the Semitic family, which included Arabic. So the sophisticated German leaders of Jew-hating used “Semitic” as wink-wink for “Jew.”

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 4:28 pm
Only anti-semites believe the Jews shouldn’t build homes in Jerusalem.
.
I guess that makes me anti-Semitic then. Jews should not build houses in Jeruselem. Everyone knows that’s what the Irish and the Italians are for. Jews should run the banks and the entertainment business.

Adrien

28 Mar 10 at 4:29 pm
Contra CL and DD, when the Israelis build settlements in Jerusalem that expand into Palestinian territory, it’s a little more complex …in addition to widespread destruction of Palestinian lives and property.
.
Shortr THR: Contra CL – Reason. C’arn you know that won’t work.

Adrien

28 Mar 10 at 4:31 pm
Here’s a serious question about settlements.
At face value, what you’ve got is people (not Jews/Moslems/whatever) building homes and living in them.
In any other country, with any other race – criticism that activity would be rightly labelled as bigotry. Imagine someone in Australia objecting to some particular ethnic group building houses on vacant land and living in them. And imagine that there’s no pretense: people simply object because of the race of the people involved.
.
So how does it differ from any other scenario in any other part of the world? Serious question.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 4:32 pm
Then what are the evictions based on DD. I would love to believe it wasn’t religion based but it sure looks that way.

By the way, I never introduced race you did. As far as I know they are the same race.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 4:37 pm
Dave, people in Australia do object to foreign ownership of real estate. Recently, there’s been plenty of kerfuffle regarding the alleged effects of FIRB policy changes.
Secondly, it isn’t merely housing that the Israelis bring with them, but repression from every State apparatus under the sun, roadblocks, oppression, and all the rest of it. Israeli settlers can only have their homes on the pre-condition that Palestinians are brutalised.

THR

28 Mar 10 at 4:37 pm
Mark Webber: Australia a Nanny-State.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/mark-webber-says-victoria-becoming-a-nanny-state/story-fn2mvbvx-1225846516940

Infidel Tiger

28 Mar 10 at 4:59 pm
The European soft-socialist justice system at work:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/28/2858167.htm?section=justin

As their unsustainable system continues, soon there’ll be free healthcare for all, they’ll just chase you for costs when you get out (or take it from your estate when you die). Surprisingly, despite this, they’ll still tax to the hilt in the name of ‘social justice’!

Michael Sutcliffe

28 Mar 10 at 5:01 pm
Infidel, I love the second commenter’s description of the Nanny State:

“If it’s not compulsory, then it’s banned”

Michael Sutcliffe

28 Mar 10 at 5:03 pm
“If it’s not compulsory, then it’s banned”

The most succinct appraisal of Australia ever. Should be on the coat of arms.

Infidel Tiger

28 Mar 10 at 5:12 pm
DD

Where to start with your latest example of uninformed bigotry? For starters the West Bank is not part of Israel unless of course you believe lebensraum is justifiable. Each new settlement reduces the likelihood of the Palestinians ever being able to establish a viable independent state.

To compare the settlements to a housing estate shows you are either being disingenuous or are grossly out of touch with the reality of the situation. I think such settlements would be illegal here anyway.

I think it’s quite ironic that the very people who defend Israel’s right to persecute the Palestinians are likely to have been applauding the painting “Jude” on Jewish businesses if born in another time and place.

Peter

I agree the term anti-Semitic was a convenient way to refer to the treatment of Jews in Europe, however it loses all meaning in the Middle-east where the population is overwhelmingly Semetic.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 5:25 pm
Yeah, you’re right, Tiger. Two or three of the players were clearly being deliberately silly (George Bush as prime minister) etc. But I get the feeling that even the jokesters were were covering up their actual inability to answer the question.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 5:48 pm
…when the Israelis build settlements in Jerusalem that expand into Palestinian territory…

Nonsense. It isn’t their territory.

Obama ginned up this intifada to look the big man to the Muslim audiences he loves impressing – as well as the Democrat Party’s very large anti-semite wing. His treatement of Netanyahu would have made Ribbentrop proud.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 5:51 pm
sfdc
As far as I know they are the same race
.
Now I know you’re not debating in good faith.
.
think it’s quite ironic that the very people who defend Israel’s right to persecute the Palestinians are likely to have been applauding the painting “Jude” on Jewish businesses if born in another time and place.
.
again, bad faith. Or to paraphrase, “it’s ironic that Israel’s supporters are such bigots.”
fuck off.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:01 pm
Jews should not build houses in Jeruselem.

If that’s what you believe, Adrien, then – yes – you are an anti-semite. Being a lefty, you’re even proud of it. This comes as no surprise. The European left is now the chief cause behind the huge growth of anti-Jewish discrimination and violence. It must make them so proud to take the torch from an earlier incarnation of (national) socialism.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 6:05 pm
That’s the bottom line. Jews should not live in location X, Y, Z. Oh, it’s not just that they want to build homes and live in them, it’s a sinister plan, because by living in those houses and watching TV at night and working at day… they are persecuting Palestinians!
How fiendishly clever, to persecute simply by existing!
And sfdc has the gall to accuse us of bigotry.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:08 pm
Secondly, it isn’t merely housing that the Israelis bring with them, but repression from every State apparatus under the sun, roadblocks, oppression, and all the rest of it.
.
But isn’t that because the settlers’ lives are at risk, and therefore they are in need of protection? It’s a kind of chicken and egg thing, but it seems that the emotional core of the issue is that Jews are living on land that the Palestinians believe is theirs.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:21 pm
Dave and CL, you guys are the gold medalists of ‘bad faith’.

The settler movement is over-run with extremists, and violence and abuse against Palestinians is widespread, and conducted with the blessing of the authorities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settler_violence

If you don’t like Wiki, there are plenty of other sources reporting the same thing.

Israeli human rights group B’Tselem considers the settlements illegal, and has, along with pretty much everybody else apart from the loopiest wingnuts, called for them to be stopped.

Pretending that Israeli expansionism is some kind of AV Jenings operation is like pretending Al Capone was a property developer.

THR

28 Mar 10 at 6:24 pm
DD

You obviously think the Palestinians have no rights. If you are going to make bigoted comments you shouldn’t get upset when called on it.

If the Jews and the Palestinians aren’t the same race then you plainly think one is an interloper. Given the Palestinians have been living there for quite a few thousand years, you obviously think the interlopers are the Israelis.

The DNA and historical evidence suggests you’re wrong on this point however.

The Jews can live in x, y and z as long as the Palestinians can live in a b and c. But we know it doesn’t work like that don’t we.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:25 pm
But we know it doesn’t work like that don’t we.

Yes, because the Palestinians’ leadership groups are doctrinally committed to exterminating the Jews.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 6:28 pm
But isn’t that because the settlers’ lives are at risk, and therefore they are in need of protection? It’s a kind of chicken and egg thing,

This is beneath contempt. There’s nothing ‘chicken and egg’ about it. The Israeli state was founded on mass murder and ethnic cleansing, a fact that pro-occupation historians readily admit. The violence in the settlements is primarily by settlers against Palestinians. The settlers have the backing of IDF troops on every corner, the Palestinians do not. The day you support Palestinians and their armed forces building houses wherever they like in Israel is the day you can accuse others of intellectual dishonesty.

THR

28 Mar 10 at 6:29 pm
You obviously think the Palestinians have no rights. If you are going to make bigoted comments you shouldn’t get upset when called on it.
.
1. no, I don’t think Palestinians have no rights.
2. Please quote something “bigoted” that I’ve said, as I deny being a bigot of any stripe.
3. Mate, race is at the core of the issue. If you don’t understand that then you aren’t even at square one. Google Farfur the Mouse for a brief introduction to the level of racism against Jews that permeates Palestinian society.
4. …but apart from that quick google tip, your devious efforts to suck us into a black hole of arguing over the DNA of jews versus arabs won’t work. I’m not taking the bait.
.
THR,
Thanks for the pointer on settler violence – I wasn’t aware of much of that stuff. I understand that it’s more complicated than AV Jennings, however given the documented rabid anti-semitism in the Palestinian community, we’d be fools to take all their objections at face value. And on face it does look unreasonable.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:33 pm
I take your point CL but I don’t think anybody truly believes the Israelis would allow unfettered Palestinian return to Israel proper regardless. Brutalising a population is a sure way of turning them to extremism in ever greater numbers.

What do you think is the solution to the problem? Do you think the Palestinians have a right to a viable state?

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:35 pm
The Israeli state was founded on mass murder and ethnic cleansing, a fact that pro-occupation historians readily admit.
.
That’s news to me. Who committed mass murder against who? Got a link?

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:39 pm
Let me make it plain to you DD, being an apologist for Israeli eviction of Palestinians from their homes is bigoted. Being an apologist for building more Israeli settlements and so making a viable Palestinian state even more unlikely is bigoted.

You seem to think religion relates to race, that is quite obviously incorrect. What differentiates the Palestinians and Israelis is religion not race.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:41 pm
okay, in answer to THR and sdfc.
The day you support Palestinians and their armed forces building houses wherever they like in Israel is the day you can accuse others of intellectual dishonesty.
.
You can’t mix and match armed forces within one nation state, that doesn’t work. So I would support it, but they would need protection from the same armed forces, ie the IDF. Under those conditions, yeah, I’d support it. Build away.
.
Do you think the Palestinians have a right to a viable state?
.
Yes. Two state solution is the answer. Cut the umbilical cord. Build a massive wall between the two of them and just have nothing to do with each other.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:43 pm
In fact there is a good argument that they are practicing the same religion and the difference is one of theology.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:44 pm
What differentiates the Palestinians and Israelis is religion not race.
.
So how do you explain Farfur the Mouse?

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:44 pm
CL

The presence of the settlements means the Palestinian state would not be viable. In other words such a plan would only work with a dismantling of the majority of the settlements.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:45 pm
The following maps should give a hint of what I am talking about.

http://www.ccmep.org/delegations/maps/palestine.html

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:47 pm
I guess I would not support settlements that make a 2 state solution not viable.

daddy dave

28 Mar 10 at 6:50 pm
That’s news to me. Who committed mass murder against who? Got a link?

Benny Morris is the key historian who to trawled the archives on this issue, and his conclusion was that the Israeli military was responsible for creating hundreds of thousands of refugees through expulsion, and through fear. Fear was generated by events like this:

The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 120 fighters from the Irgun and Lehi Zionist paramilitary groups attacked Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, a Palestinian-Arab village of roughly 600 people.[1] The invasion occurred as Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.[2]
Around 107 villagers, including women and children, were killed. Some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.[3] Several were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.[4] Four of the attackers died, with around 35 injured.[5] The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah, the Jewish community’s main paramilitary force, and by the area’s two chief rabbis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Deir_Yassin

I suspect there’d be a lot more material online for anybody willing to do the googling.

THR

28 Mar 10 at 6:54 pm
Fair enough DD.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 6:58 pm
US stimulus: Epic Fail. The double dip recession is upon us.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/299937.php

Infidel Tiger

28 Mar 10 at 7:41 pm
With crowds cheering Abbott, Rudd abandons politics of personal denigration and pretends to be magnanimous.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/28/2858216.htm

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 8:11 pm
Labor member for the seat of Treasury, Ken Henry, touts warmenism, waxes lyrical on the spotted owl and the yellow-footed wallaby.

And here’s a sentence that should reassure the nation that the Commonwealth’s coffers are in the very best of hands:

The senior economic chief wore a shirt with the slogan, “Hairy-nosed wombat only 115 left”.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 8:23 pm
sdfc

Actually the conflict is common garden variety ethnic conflict. The primary cultural descriptor of the Palestinians is “Arab,” which is itself the essence of Sunni Islam.

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 8:27 pm
sdfc

The ancient linguistic roots of the Arabic language matters not a jot to the meaning of “anti-Semitism.” For god sakes, how many Arabs do you think have a clue about philology?

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 8:29 pm
The best way forward would be for Jordan to assume sovereignty over most of the West Bank. I have no idea what to do about Gaza.

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 8:32 pm
Peter

Race is not culture, it is not linguistics, it is DNA, this is what makes both the Israeli Jews and the Palestinian Muslims Semitic. You can call the extremists anti-Jew if you like, but labelling them anti-Semitic is a lazy catchphrase.

sdfc

28 Mar 10 at 10:09 pm
No sdfc, “Semitic” is a linguistic term, not a DNA grouping. From reading this thread, it is clear you need to go away and read a LOT more.

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 10:17 pm
Staunch defender of all things stimulus, Mr Homer Pxton takes careful aim at Tyler Cowan and blasts own foot to smithereens.

“Tyler Cowen is wrong.

the employer has a certain number of employees with his expected level of demand.
if demand increases and it is expected to further increase more employees are put on the payroll.

the only time they wouldn’t be if they though the increase in demand was temporary”

Well done Homer, top shot that. Now explain to us the permanent nature of the stimulus.

pedro

28 Mar 10 at 10:31 pm
“Homer thinks Jerusalem was founded in 1922.”

CL has road to damascus moment about land rights and invites murri people to move into his place.

pedro

28 Mar 10 at 10:32 pm
“Actually the conflict is common garden variety ethnic conflict.” I think that is a good description, but there is a substantial sectarian aspect as well. The current complaint is the jewish settlements are being built on the side of jerusalem outside of israel and they are doing it because of a crap historical claim.

pedro

28 Mar 10 at 10:43 pm
Nothing ‘road to Damascus’ about my support for legitimate Aboriginal land rights in Australia, Pedro. I thank you for comparing Aborigines to the Jews, whose suzerainty pre-dates the recently invented Islamic religion by millennia.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 10:47 pm
Hmmm. so jews can kick palestinians out of their homes based on a 2 thousand year old claim, but just 200 years has Bennelong out on his ear. Okey dokey, nice to see the consistent approach.

pedro

28 Mar 10 at 11:03 pm
No, Palestinian terrorists (aka the Palestinian ‘government’) cannot have a party platform that requires the Jews to be exterminated – which they do.

You disagree, obviously – being a rohipnol-entranced fascist zombie.

I’m not sure what Bennelong has to do with it. You’re again comparing Jews to the orioriginal tribal suzerains of Australia. Thank you.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 11:27 pm
American Chavez: Caterpillar, Medtronic, AT&T, Deere & Co and Verizon have pointed out to the public how much the Obamacare disaster will cost them. Congressional Democrats have now requested that their CEOs appear before the Energy and Commerce Committee and produce internal analyses and emails related to their statements.

Chilling.

C.L.

28 Mar 10 at 11:51 pm
Jews have been in Palestine just as long as the Arabs. Maybe not in the numbers to form a nation, but they’ve always been there.

Michael Sutcliffe

28 Mar 10 at 11:57 pm
Actually I doubt any Arab has been in Palestine for 100 years, let alone 2,000 years!

Peter Patton

28 Mar 10 at 11:59 pm
Why is that? Arabs were in the area, they just weren’t known as Palestinians. Correct me if I’ve got something wrong.

Michael Sutcliffe

29 Mar 10 at 12:02 am
Well given that the longest any human being has ever lived is about 120 years…

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 12:05 am
Got you now.

Michael Sutcliffe

29 Mar 10 at 12:09 am
Cl:

They should simply refuse to attend the meetings and see if they would actually try to jail for refusing to comply with the subpoena.

If these CEO’s had any balls that’s what they ought to do.

As far as I can tell, he won’t be getting a second term.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 1:08 am
The New York Times editorial on recess appointments, January 9, 2006:

It is disturbing that President Bush has exhibited a grandiose vision of executive power that leaves little room for public debate, the concerns of the minority party or the supervisory powers of the courts. But it is just plain baffling to watch him take the same regal attitude toward a Congress in which his party holds solid majorities in both houses.

The New York Times editorial on recess appointments, March 27, 2010:

President Obama, making a muscular show of his executive authority just one day after Congress left for spring recess, said Saturday that he would bypass the Senate and install 15 appointees, including a union lawyer whose nomination to the National Labor Relations Board was blocked last month with the help of two Democrats. Coming on the heels of Mr. Obama’s big victory on health care legislation, Saturday’s move suggests a newly emboldened president who is unafraid to provoke a confrontation with the minority party.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/11470

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 2:11 am
Another Rudd debacle on the way:

PM gets ahead of himself with talk of support.

KEVIN Rudd is facing accusations he exaggerated support for his hospital reform, after more than half the expert groups he claimed had backed the plan said they could not yet endorse it.
During last week’s debate with Tony Abbott, the Prime Minister said the “profession right across the country is getting in behind what we are saying”, and the government “was backed” by nine groups.

But five of the groups — the Australian Medical Association, the Australian Healthcare and Hospitals Association, the Australian Nursing Federation, the Rural Doctors Association of Australia and Catholic Health Australia — say while they support the general direction of reform, there are still too many holes for them to sign up to it at this stage.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 10:26 am
I wonder if BBB would agree with this analysis of previous US recessions?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/01/26/business/economy/20090126-recessions-graphic.html

Capitalist Piggy

29 Mar 10 at 10:37 am
Quod erat demonstrandum:

Police anger over Webber’s nanny state jibe.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:11 am
Wow. Obama administration trashes Rudd’s plan to censor the internet.

Another failure.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:46 am
More on the nanny state. World’s best driver put lives at risk by spinning wheels!:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/australian-grand-prix/officials-f1-guns-collide-over-nanny-state-road-rules-20100328-r4qj.html?autostart=1

Are these tin pot dickless nazis for real?

Infidel Tiger

29 Mar 10 at 11:52 am
http://twitter.com/wingedmenace

Does anybody have evidence that Cambria WASN’T in Acropolis Now? No? Right. That’s one nailed then.

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 12:16 pm
Thanks for that Jase.

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 12:39 pm
Ooh a new one!

Just did the political compass test. Turns out I’m more of a Khmer Rouge libertarian.

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 12:45 pm
err Pedro if you looked at the National Accounts you would see the stimulus has led to a permanent increase in demand. the Capital expenditure numbers back this up.
that is the point of the policy.

Cowen has obviously never worked in a company before.

Peter I doubt if any Arab has lived in Palestine for over 2000 years. They would be very old

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 1:10 pm
Cowen has obviously never worked in a company before.,.,.

You idiot. You complete idiot. Cowen is an economist, a real one, unlike you, you dolt.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 1:16 pm
Yes he is as stupid as you are and says things which companies do not do as we observe from economic statistics

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 1:26 pm
Show some freaking respect for the readership, you goofball.
Proof read the stuff to post.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 1:31 pm
show some respect for normal idiots

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 1:32 pm
The MSM demonstrates its counting skills. Dozens of people at Tea Party Rally:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/cnn-on-size-of-todays-searchlight-tea-party-rally-hundreds-of-people-at-least-dozens/

Infidel Tiger

29 Mar 10 at 1:39 pm
Birdy offers to tutor Abbott

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/aint-no-keynesian-whores-goldand-you-wouldnt-want-to-look-for-it-even-if-there-were/#comment-28122

I’m not against him spending two hours a day on aerobics. I was after all a swimming coach. But he ought not waste all his inspiration through his joints, when he could have me, Kates and Jackson learning him how to be the true statesman of the quarter century

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 2:06 pm
Dozens of people at Tea Party Rally.

That’s hilarious.

Looks like Possum did the crowd estimate.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 2:21 pm
Maybe Tone could appoint him shadow Finance minister Jason.

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 2:28 pm
Hey, welcome!

Christmas Island welcomes 40 more asylum-seekers as 99th boat surprises authorities.

Why isn’t lazy Rudd solving this problem?

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 2:39 pm
Three men escape Villawood. Gillard blames contractors.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 2:41 pm
CL relentlessly refuses to understand a point, as usual.

“No, Palestinian terrorists (aka the Palestinian ‘government’) cannot have a party platform that requires the Jews to be exterminated – which they do.”
Perhaps so, but what has that got to do with Israel’s border and the construction of settlements on the otherside thereof?

“You disagree, obviously – being a rohipnol-entranced fascist zombie.”
Say what?

“I’m not sure what Bennelong has to do with it. You’re again comparing Jews to the orioriginal tribal suzerains of Australia. Thank you.”

You’re welcome. But I’ll try and spell it out again. 2000 years ago a bunch of jews, among others, lived in an area that had been their homeland for quite a bit. Then they got into stife with the Romans and had to move away. Recently, a bunch of jews took over a part of the old homeland and then a whole bunch of them moved back in.

There is nothing in that scenario to justify building settlements on the land next door. They lost their title, just like the aborigines. If you think that the jews did not lose their title to East jerusalem then you must also think that the aborigines have not lost title to any of australia.

Pedro

29 Mar 10 at 3:01 pm
Gallop: post health-care vote, Obama’s approval rating collapses.

Rasmussen: more Americans trust Tea Party movement than Dem Congress.

Presidential selections for the NCAA tournament:

Obama comes up empty with Final Four picks.

President Barack Obama went 0 for 2 in the NCAA tournament Saturday when Kentucky and Kansas State lost in the regional finals, knocking out his two remaining picks for the Final Four.

In his ESPN.com bracket, Obama predicted that Kansas, Villanova, Kentucky and Kansas State would reach the Final Four. Kansas and Villanova were upset in the second round, then Kentucky and Kansas State went down Saturday.

Kentucky, the top seed in the East Regional, was beaten 73-66 by second-seeded West Virginia. Kansas State, the No. 2 seed in the West Regional, lost 63-56 to No. 5 Butler.

Obama’s bracket ranked 1,154,792nd on the Web site’s leaderboard, putting him in the top 75.8 percent of users who entered picks.

The commander in chief also lost a Final Four pick in his women’s bracket when top-seeded Tennessee lost to No. 4 Baylor 77-62 in the round of 16. Stanford, his Final Four pick for the Sacramento regional, routed fifth-seeded Georgia 73-36.

The kiss of death.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 3:06 pm
The land next door?

WTF are you talking about?

The point is that Palestinian terrorists don’t have a right to advocate and pursue the extermination of the folks next door. When they verifiably, unqualifiedly abandon that doctrine, they might make some progress. Until then, they deserve nothing.

And no, what the rabidly anti-semitic “United Nations” pretended to decide about East Jerusalem in 1967 does not rise to the dignity or authority of the High Court’s Mabo decision.

What happened in East Jerusalem in 1948?

Upon its capture, the Jordanians immediately expelled all the Jewish residents of the Jewish Quarter. All the main synagogues were destroyed, and the Jewish Quarter was bulldozed. The ancient Jewish cemetery on Mount of Olives was desecrated, and the tombstones there were used for construction and paving roads. Jordan also destroyed the Jewish villages of Atarot and Neve Yaakov just north of Jerusalem…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 3:19 pm
The Jimmy Carter of Australia – Robert Mugabe admirer, Malcolm Fraser – attacks Israel, calls for Jewish diplomats to be expelled.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 3:24 pm
circa is being misleading as usual.

Palestinians aren’t very good at terrorism ( like say the Irgun or the Stern Gag or even the Haganah) as they haven’t killed anywhere near as many people as these organizations did.
And they did have a policy of extermination of palestinians which they pursued vigorously.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 3:41 pm
pedro

The Jews might well have “lost their title” but they bought new title from 1890-1947, and then clinched the deal by actually being able to defend that title from 1948 onwards. I can’t imagine many property rights being more solid than that.

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 3:52 pm
Palestinians aren’t very good at terrorism.

Hey, that’s alright Dr Quote. Israelis aren’t very good at losing their country to Islamist lunatics.

Just think of Israel’s humiliation of its enemies in 1967. What a bunch of Marys they were.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 3:53 pm
pedro. Oh and between the Romans and 1948, every empire and ethnicity on earth had trampled through, occupied, and owned that bit of dirt.

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 3:54 pm
Palestinians aren’t very good at terrorism ( like say the Irgun or the Stern Gag or even the Haganah) as they haven’t killed anywhere near as many people as these organizations did.

Good point Homer. Like you’ve mentioned a number of times about the Nazis not being good killers of Jews until 1936 or whichever arbitrary year you normally pick.

Those suicide bombers were terrible at killing kids in pizza parlors.

And they did have a policy of extermination of palestinians which they pursued vigorously.

If the jews wanted to exterminate the palis they wouldn’t find it hard to achieve you nincompoop.

However the Israelis don’t seem to be cut of the same cloth as your believed Nazis.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 4:02 pm
hey lets compare people killed by Jewish terrorists and palestinian terrorists.oops Jews win.

Circa wrong AGAIN.

no Peter the Jews didn’t have tile at all. They didn’t recognise land title held principally by Palestinian Christians. Still don’t.

Can someone tell us all how ant loony organisation can ‘destroy Israel.

Israel can certainly destroy them but how can they destroy Israel?

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 4:05 pm
listen idiot it takes a lot of pizza parlours to even get near the number of people massacred in Deir Yassin.

that is but one ‘incident’.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 4:09 pm
BBB

110 people died at Deir Yassin. Big deal!

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 4:13 pm
No Peter a lot more than that. I would have thought it was a big deal.

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

29 Mar 10 at 4:14 pm
Homer:

If the Israelis wanted to wipe out the Palis, they could do it in a week, which is a longer time that your beloved nazi took to wipe out all the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.

Try and think at times, you goose.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 4:17 pm
oops than

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 4:18 pm
BBB

No, you are wrong. That is how many people who died at Dier Yassin, and it is not even remotely a big deal.

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 4:18 pm
The chief cause of the Christian exodus from the Middle East is Islamic extremism.

Homer supports the Islamists.

What a Judas.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 4:33 pm
Homer arranges peace talks:

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/hitler_mufti.jpg

Infidel Tiger

29 Mar 10 at 4:41 pm
Too beautiful:

“It happens now and then that some gibbering loon makes a persistent appearance somewhere on the blog, and the ensuing wrangle goes on and on and on. We’ve had just such an occurrence on this thread, which is bloating up to almost 700 comments now. Graeme Bird is an Australian wanna-be politician of the crank variety, a global warming denialist, anti-vaxer, anti-evolutionist and fan of ID, birther, truther, and like your typical obsessive kook, he just can’t let it go, even though he’s getting laughed at rather cruelly (and deservedly).”

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/the_graeme_bird_memorial_threa.php

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 5:07 pm
I think he’s an absolute hoot. A real living National Treasure!

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 5:10 pm
“He’s not just crazy, he’s flamboyantly crazy.”

That’s a very nice description.

Infidel Tiger

29 Mar 10 at 5:15 pm
Bird deserves a wider audience.

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 5:15 pm
Ronald McDonald asked to retire:

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Health/2010/03/29/Ronald_McDonald_asked_to_retire_445488.html

Infidel Tiger

29 Mar 10 at 5:17 pm
Pharyngula is a good sport for a lefty handing over a thread for Bird to play in but the question is can his server handle it?

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 5:18 pm
jtfsoon

He is a first class prose stylist, incredibly knowledgeable, outrageous, and quite possibly mad as a hatter.

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 5:19 pm
Tiger I honestly thought that was a joke

tal

29 Mar 10 at 5:23 pm
Peter, Graeme writes fantastic film and music reviews

tal

29 Mar 10 at 5:24 pm
fiction reviews too.

I am planning to buy Blood Meridian on the strength of one of Birdy’s comments.

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 5:26 pm
Does he rehash posts he’s made over the years? Because no matter what topic or what opinion, within 15 minutes, he’s posted as essay in rejoinder!

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 5:31 pm
Actually the party got started here at around comment #76.

The thread went for over 650 comments before it had to be shut down:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/these_guys_are_dangerous_nuts.php

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 5:32 pm
Classic Birdism

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/the_graeme_bird_memorial_threa.php#comment-2386215

You be far more comfortable dressing up in sheila’s clothing then applying the scientific method.

jtfsoon

29 Mar 10 at 5:33 pm
Some of the comments are brilliant:

“You know what’s fun? Singing Graeme Bird’s posts out loud. They’re even more hilariously batshit-insane when they’re songs.”

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 5:48 pm
When he wants to be, Bird is the best writer of English prose in the Australian blogosphere, bar none.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 6:08 pm
OK, maybe excepting Professor Bunyip.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 6:08 pm
I must respectfully disagree, CL. Spewing hundreds of words at random over the page like so much vomit in the vain hope that some of them will somehow make sense hardly constitutes.

But, hey. Each to their own.

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 6:13 pm
Hu jailed for ten years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/29/2859384.htm

Major credit to Julie Bishop for speaking out:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/29/2858824.htm

Mr Mandarin AWOL.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 6:19 pm
come on Birdlab

you’re telling me Bird’s writing is worse than Homer’s?

Jason Soon

29 Mar 10 at 6:32 pm
By weight and volume, possibly. But it’s in a whole different class of worst. I don’t think Homes is in the major leagues, yet.

BTW, have I introduced you to Lame Cherry? I think you’ll find some striking similarities:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 6:35 pm
CL, your point missing is inexorable.

What has palestinian terrorism got to do with the Israelis permanently annexing land outside their borders? Please note I’m not saying that they shouldn’t occupy areas needed for legitimate self-defence, like the Golan, but that argument does not wash for East Jerusalem which was never part of modern Israel.

“What happened in East Jerusalem in 1948?”

“The war of 1948 resulted in Jerusalem being divided, with the old walled city lying entirely on the Jordanian side of the line. A no-man’s land between East and West Jerusalem came into being in November 1948: Moshe Dayan, commander of the Israeli forces in Jerusalem, met with his Jordanian counterpart Abdullah el Tell in a deserted house in Jerusalem’s Musrara neighborhood and marked out their respective positions: Israel’s position in red and Jordan’s in green. This rough map, which was not meant as a an official one, became the final line in the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which divided the city and left Mount Scopus as an Israeli exclave inside East Jerusalem.[83]”

The part of the wiki entry the CL left out.

Peter Patton:

“Oh and between the Romans and 1948, every empire and ethnicity on earth had trampled through, occupied, and owned that bit of dirt.”

Well Durr! But how is that relevant to the Israeli settlement scheme? West Papua has had a few rulers too. Would it be justifiable for us to kick out the Indos and then send in Aussie settlers.

Pedro

29 Mar 10 at 6:45 pm
No, because Indonesia is a sovereign state.

Peter Patton

29 Mar 10 at 6:53 pm
Oh my god. Jason, the winged-loon is everywhere:

http://lol.ianloic.com/feed/graemebird.wordpress.com/atom.xml

BirdLab

29 Mar 10 at 6:59 pm
The part of the wiki entry the CL left out.

I didn’t leave anything ‘out’. I don’t quote entire pages from Wiki. The quoted passage demonstrates what happens when Islamic lunatics get their hands on Jerusalem. It happened in 1948 and would most assuredly happen again. Doctrinally – as an ineluctable corollary of their party platforms and religious worldview – Hamas and associated terrorist groups are in fact obliged to liquidate Jews and destroy the cultural heritage of Judaism, qua the Taliban in Afghanistan.

And no, I’m not missing any ‘point.’ The point is that the denizens of Gaza are dogmatically committed to exterminationism and until they verifiably, meaningfully, credibly jettison that exterminationism permanently, they’re entitled to nothing. As for what they are entitled to in a best case scenario, they have no particular right to East Jerusalem. Arrangements have been made in the past to give them the statist enclave they supposedly crave but they preferred to wage generational war for the whole shooting match instead. They lost.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 9:16 pm
Robert Hughes: The Mona Lisa Curse
They didn’t come to look at the Mona Lisa, they came in order to have seen it. And there is a crucial distinction, since one is reality and experience, and the other one is simply a phantom.

daddy dave

29 Mar 10 at 9:23 pm
Doctrinally – as an ineluctable corollary of their party platforms and religious worldview – Hamas and associated terrorist groups are in fact obliged to liquidate Jews and destroy the cultural heritage of Judaism, qua the Taliban in Afghanistan.

And no, I’m not missing any ‘point.’ The point is that the denizens of Gaza are dogmatically committed to exterminationism and until they verifiably, meaningfully, credibly jettison that exterminationism permanently, they’re entitled to nothing.

This is the standard, slippery reasoning of those who seek to defend colonial slaughter:

1. Pretend Hamas is ‘doctrinally’ committed to slaughter, despite this being demonstrably false.

2. Pretend that Hamas stands for all Palestinians, who are ‘dogmatically committed’ to genoice, despite the fact that most Gazans who support Hamas do so for reasons other than Israel (i.e. anti-corruption, minimal program of health and welfare, etc) and despite the fact that Hamas have nothing to do with the West Bank, and therefore Jerusalem.

3. Throw in dubious use of ‘qua’, perhaps to add rhetorical colour to the argument.

In psychoanalytic terms, it’s a commonplace of European colonialism for the colonisers to employ projection. (Israel is, after all, merely another example of naked European colonialism). So we see ethnic cleansing, mass slaughter, expropriation, and every other kind of injustice instigated by the Israelis, but yet it’s the natives who are branded as ‘barbarians’, ‘savages’, ‘genocidal’, ‘bigoted’, etc. It’s a familiar pattern, repeated around the world over the past couple of hundred years, and anybody who can’t recognise it by 2010 is either being wilfully obtuse or is simply stupid.

THR

29 Mar 10 at 10:08 pm
THR:

Erskine Bowles was one Clinton’s White House senior operatives that was really quite supportive of the palis until he saw the machinations of the Camp Davids negotiations between Clinton, Arafat and the then Israeli PM.

There wasn’t much else the Israelis could have given the Palis to secure a lasting peace according to Bowles without Israel dismembering itself.

Being involved in the negotiations he saw Arafat entering the negotiations with dishonest intentions and came away from the the process as a supporter of israel after realizing that the only thing that was important to Arafat was the complete destruction of Israel. Nothing else would quench his thirst.

Almost every nation on earth has borders created through blood and steel. The UN actually tried to create a situation that tried to avoid that by putting the borders around where the bulk of the two people resided. Israel was attacked on the very first day it became a nation and the Arabs haven’t stopped since.

If there ever was a long period of sustained peace the living standards of the surrounding Arabs would be basically indistinguishable and the borders basically porous.

JC1

29 Mar 10 at 10:37 pm
Gosh, what a surprise.

Bolt is right. This could get pretty bloody. The Russians don’t do the whole surgical, gently-gently proportionate response thing.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:04 pm
Gear up the Righteous Ones CL

tal

29 Mar 10 at 11:09 pm
Indeed.

>:——–/

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:26 pm
Worst Box Office Bomb Ever:

“A film about a stressed-out mother, featuring the Hollywood superstar Uma Thurman, has been withdrawn from show after just 11 cinema goers turned up to see it in its opening weekend. Motherhood managed to gross £9 from the lone viewer who turned up on the debut Sunday. Takings for the full weekend hit £88.”

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:27 pm
From the people who demonise Israel:

Nazi scandal engulfs Human Rights Watch.

By day, Marc Garlasco was HRW’s only military expert, the person that its Emergencies Division would send to conflict zones to investigate alleged war crimes. He wrote reports condemning the dropping of cluster bombs in the Russia-Georgia war, the alleged illegal use of white phosphorus by the Israeli army in Gaza and coalition tactics that he said “unnecessarily” put Iraqi or Afghan civilians at risk. An enthusiastic source of quotes for the media, he was incessantly on the phone to journalists.

But by night, Garlasco was “Flak88”, an obsessive contributor to internet forums on Third Reich memorabilia and an avid collector of badges and medals emblazoned with swastikas and eagles.

A lavishly illustrated $100 book he compiled and self-published is dedicated to his grandfather, who served in the Luftwaffe. On members-only sites such as Wehrmachtawards.com he was writing comments like “VERY nice Hitler signature selection”; “That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!”

London Times expose: RTWT.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:31 pm
LOL!

Japanese “We Are the World” Remake.

http://viralfootage.com/?p=6456

The Boss, Michael Jackson and Cindy Lauper as you’ve never imagined them.

C.L.

29 Mar 10 at 11:48 pm
“putting the borders around where the bulk of the two people resided”

I think you need to read more about the pre-1948 demographic situation.

Jarrah

30 Mar 10 at 12:19 am
Which version, Jarrah, the arabist centric one or the real version?

You may also want to explain how most important borders were created around the world where different people lived on either side and if they were created in a fairer way than the UN’s attempts in the 48 resolution.

Are you actually suggesting there has never been ethnic cleansing and if not why are the Israelis always signaled out?

With a million arabs living in Israeli borders- at times up to 33% of the population- one would have to argue that Israeli ethnic cleansing was possibly the worst failure of this practice in human history.

There are disturbing number of people who seem to show lots of sympathy for the dead Jews rather than the ones that are alive today.

JC1

30 Mar 10 at 12:37 am
“Which version, Jarrah, the arabist centric one or the real version?”

Not sure what you mean. There’s only one set of numbers that I know of. Perhaps you can clarify?

“if they were created in a fairer way than the UN’s attempts in the 48 resolution.”

That other borders were set arbitrarily or unjustly or without regard for the residents is immaterial if you wish to claim that these ones were done fairly in an absolute (rather than relative) sense.

“Are you actually suggesting there has never been ethnic cleansing and if not why are the Israelis always signaled out?”

Interesting segue. It’s as if you really don’t like settling one question before you rush off in another direction.

Jarrah

30 Mar 10 at 12:50 am
Back to local politics.

The latest Newspoll is 56-44, in favour of the ALP.

The Morgan Poll from 26/3 is 56.5-43.5 in favour of the ALP.

Essential Research from 22/3 has ALP at 56-44.

Maybe it’s time for Abbott to publicise his policies (wildly generous maternity scheme, revival of Workchoices) as much as his sporting prowess and pseudo-gaffes.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 1:32 am
Polls, schmolls. Rudd has created some new smoke and mirror effects around health “reform.” True to form, this will lead into a brick wall within a month or so.

Interesting that our resident communist is suddenly against a corporate levy for a welfare initiative.

Anything for band camp boy, hey THR?

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 2:17 am
I’m actually suggesting that your frequent focus on Israeli borders and the way in which the nation was set up- there was a ton more legal input from the UN there than pretty much everywhere else- suggests to me that (the focus) is really nothing more than soft anti-semitism or thoughtless anti-semitism where one standard applies for live jews and another for everyone else. I think you really need to deal with this than pretty much anything else first.

As for the last part. I’m glad you consider it an intriguing question and perhaps you need to devote more time to the fact that ethnic cleansing which was really on a very small scale is very much different to what has happened in human history and why the Jews are signaled out for giving up land.

Seems to me that you too have fallen for demonstrating the same old thing I always see….. which is to show a great deal of sympathy for dead jews compared to the plight of the ones that are alive now encircled by nations and terror organizations that want to see its destruction.

JC1

30 Mar 10 at 2:18 am
THR – Hamas’ founding charter called for the extermination of Jews, enthusiastically quoting a Hadith to that effect. You can read it here:

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

It says:

“The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Hamas are an organisation that advocate, and have carried out when able, mass murder and exterminationism. They are supported by a worryingly large number of Leftists.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 2:30 am
They are supported by a worryingly large number of Leftists.

Say you’re going to provide free hospital and schooling and you can kill as many Jews as you want.

Build a 300 bed hospital and that equals 3000 (Hamas orchestrated) dead jews according to some lefties.

JC1

30 Mar 10 at 2:36 am
CL – don’t forget it was the Nazi war criminal Kurt Waldheim who presided over the “Zionism is a form of Racism” UN Resolution.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 2:37 am
Anything for band camp boy, hey THR?

Actually, CL, I’m surprised you don’t see the similarities between Abbott and Rudd. Both are professional media tarts, and both are trying to second-guess a cynical public. Despite all that, Abbott’s policies are absolute rubbish, detested by the majority of Australians.

And yes, I support paid maternity leave, but there are far better ways of dividing up the pie than those demonstrated by the middle-class welfarism of Abbott and Howard.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 2:43 am
Fisk, before you reach your characteristic levels of giddy, self-righteous excitement, please allow me to point out that this aspect of the Hamas charter is only supported by a minority of Hamas members. The others tolerate it as a (misguided) way of thumbing their nose at Israel. The charter is merely a symbolic gesture, of precisely the sort that you dismiss when it comes to Aborigines. It would be idiotic for Hamas to ‘recognise’ Israel, since this would never be reciprocated, and since such recognition would be tantamount to giving a blessing to decades of ethnic cleansing. In practice, even Hamas has shown more good faith than the right-wing, arrogant, loony PM that Israel is currently lumbered with, and who is disliked by a majority of Israelis.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 2:47 am
I don’t know how many members of Hamas support their nakedly genocidal platform, and it doesn’t really matter. I personally would not under any circumstances sign up to a political party that had called for genocide in its platform. And anyone who does sign up to such a party is morally depraved. This isn’t “Clause IV” of the British Labour Party’s Constitution that we are talking about here – it’s an open call for the murder of Jews. And their rhetoric has already been put into action – Hamas have deliberately murdered Jewish civilians, which was put to a stop by the construction of the security wall.

THR considers all this to be merely “symbolic”.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 3:00 am
To summarise: the BNP is “fascist” and UKIP is “reactionary”, while Hamas are merely “misguided”. Says it all, really.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 3:03 am
To summarise: the BNP is “fascist” and UKIP is “reactionary”, while Hamas are merely “misguided”. Says it all, really.

More projection, Fisk. The BNP didn’t have over a thousand civilian members murdered last year, as did the Palestinians. Which isn’t to say that Hamas are a leftist party – they aren’t – but their symbolic positions vis-a-vis ‘recognition’ of Israel are perfectly understandable.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 3:11 am
THR – Hamas’s position on Jew murder has existed since at least 1988. They have murdered Jewish civilians, particularly school-children, during periods of relative “peace” vis-a-vis Israel. A list of such actions can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hamas_suicide_attacks

They are literally a fascist party who have targeted hundreds of civilians for murder, on religious grounds no less. But the BNP or UKIP are much worse!

I might also add – to provide a little context here – that there are a lot of ethnies around the world who have lost many a thousand of their co-nationals to war (the Dinka in South Sudan have probably lost hundreds of thousands of people, for example). Only one group of people that I am aware of thinks that genocide is the appropriate “response”. Hamas are murderous savages who must be annihilated root and branch.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 3:26 am
sorry that should be “even during periods of relative peace”

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 3:27 am
Palestinians, like everybody else, have the right of self-defense, even if it comes in the form of reactionary parties, a la Hamas. Palestinians should not have to wait until they elect a libertarian government for their lives to be given any sanctity by the Israelis.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 3:38 am
Despite all that, Abbott’s policies are absolute rubbish, detested by the majority of Australians.

Really? Heard of the ETS lately? What about the insulation scheme? How about those $1 million tuckshops? Abbott has dominated every policy arena since he was elected leader. What’s frustrating the hip disciples of the ear-wax eater is that Abbott is taking a leaf out of his book and keeping his election policies close to his chest.

Apart from promising to secure Australia’s borders and end the horror of detention for asylum seekers (LOL), Rudd’s only policy in 2006-07 was to appear on Sunrise with Mel and Kochy.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 4:13 am
That stands to reason, Michael, re Kurt Waldheim. On Jews, today’s Western left has effortlessly taken the torch passed to them by their (national) socialist forebears.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 4:14 am
“Abbott has dominated every policy arena since he was elected leader.”

Which must explain why today’s Newspoll has Labor as better at handling both the economy and health. (As well as Labor getting 4 points back on primary vote.)

Truly, I can only see the Putin effect as the reason why you could be excited about Abbott’s performance over the last week.

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 7:44 am
forgot the link:

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2010/03/29/1225847/179050-100330-newspoll.pdf

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 7:45 am
Bird assassinated after 507 comments:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/the_graeme_bird_memorial_threa.php

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 10:56 am
Fake Bird sent the following twitter to what I think is Abbott’s official twitter account

http://twitter.com/wingedmenace

TonyAbbottMHR Tone, you get on the phone you ever need any economics advice, okay?

jtfsoon

30 Mar 10 at 10:57 am
There were quite a few accurate psychological assessments in there, too, methinks.

Too much fun.

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 11:13 am
THR You international socialists just cannot help but throw your hat in with every single genocidal gig that’s offered, can you? Fixated on finding a substitute bourgeoisie you can overthrow, you project proletarian holiness onto every squalid nutty outfit going.

Peter Patton

30 Mar 10 at 11:28 am
Its always marvellous to see Bird thrown into a new forum and having him go crazy there as the members come to terms with the fact that in every field of knowledge bird will argue for some extreme view.

Steve Edney

30 Mar 10 at 11:31 am
Aboot has dominated every debate, Steve, as the 1800 comments you’ve made about your homo-erotic love interest clearly demonstrate.

Amusingly, you’ve completely jettisoned “climate change,” having predicted a double dissolution election on the topic before Abbott crushed the ETS.

It is no longer the Great Moral Challenge of Our Time.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:39 am
Ricky Martin has finally come out
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100329/ap_en_ot/us_people_ricky_martin_18

tal

30 Mar 10 at 11:41 am
The worst public policy catastrophe in Australian history – Rudd’s insulation and incineration scheme – is going from ~~bad to worse~~ worse to indescribably shocking.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:42 am
These threads also show how much less used to robust language Americans are. Some of the people on that thread seem genuinely distressed by Bird’s language whereas we’re laughing our heads off even when we’re abused by him.

jtfsoon

30 Mar 10 at 11:44 am
With all due respect CL, this isn’t indescribably shocking, this is the Keynesian multiplier in action.

dover_beach

30 Mar 10 at 11:45 am
Hell Jason we copy most of his “salty” expressions

tal

30 Mar 10 at 11:47 am
Let’s hope Ricky Martin’s courage emboldens steve from brisbane to leave the moth balls in the closet and walk proud.

Infidel Tiger

30 Mar 10 at 11:48 am
No, it’s not from The Onion:

Global Warming Activist Freezes to Death in Antarctica.

Famed global warming activist James Schneider and a journalist friend were both found frozen to death on Saturday, about 90 miles from South Pole Station, by the pilot of a ski plane practicing emergency evacuation procedures.

“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing”, recounted the pilot, Jimmy Dolittle. “There were two snowmobiles with cargo sleds, a tent, and a bright orange rope that had been laid out on the ice, forming the words, ‘HELP-COLD’.”

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:53 am
jtfsoon

That is another way the LP crowd slavishly defer to American cultural norms.

Peter Patton

30 Mar 10 at 11:56 am
ALAS, no, it was too funny to be true.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:57 am
Yes Jason. I was mildly amused by the accusations of sexism and homophobeism (though I don’t subscribe to either).

But, you know, when you’re dealing with a narcissistic psychopath, it pretty much goes with the territory.

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 11:58 am
Yes, the best you lot can come up in response to a poll showing that, under Abbott, the Coalition now trails in economic credibility, is to make gay jokes.

Seems to me that’s a pretty big deal, that part of the polling. If Abbott doesn’t sound credible in his talk today, things will be looking dim for the Coalition.

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 12:00 pm
What can we do about Steve, Graeme has offered his advice now the balls is in Abbott’s court

tal

30 Mar 10 at 12:03 pm
goodness me.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/redefining_gender/

jtfsoon

30 Mar 10 at 12:11 pm
…in every field of knowledge bird will argue for some extreme view.

And this, of course, is the problem. Corner-cutting. Admirably voracious but ultimately phony intellectual polyglotism tempts him to drive straight across the meticulous lawns of the disciplinary status quos in a road grader. He should concentrate on what he knows and deploy his impressive general knowledge like a novelist: as colorful buttresses only.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 12:11 pm
well as the heading goes

Dearest blog. Cheapest Thinktank. Deepest Philosopher. Most Holistic Prophet

jtfsoon

30 Mar 10 at 12:20 pm
Ford seems to be hitting their straps. Not sucking on the tax payers teat has produced the best Mustang in decades:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/2011-ford-mustang-gt-first-drive/

Infidel Tiger

30 Mar 10 at 12:22 pm
Steve (aka Heffo), you’re the one who has been making anti-gay comments, you dishonest clown. You’ve been abusing Abbott for wearing the pink of the McGrath Foundation and for not condemning homosexuals who choose to pretend to get married.

Rudd’s modus operandi still works – which is what I’ve been saying for a year. Australian electorates will tend to give the benefit of the doubt to a first term prime minister. It’s extremely unlikely that they’ll ever dump the incumbent. And what is Rudd’s modus operandi? Constant movement from one Big Idea to the next; none of them working, all of them driving the country broke but all coming across to survey respondents as Action. Throw in the common thread of Free Stuff – which is a Rudd leitmotif – and, more likely than not, a first term prime minister will get the 5 or 6 percent he needs to stay ahead. All the headlines driven by a television worm – which recorded the feelings of bussed in university lefties and unemployed loiterers – also helped immensely last week.

What is remarkable, therefore, is that Abbott has dominated and shaped all major debates since being elected Liberal leader. Even Rudd’s health “policy” was pulled from his bottom as a distraction from the ably attacked BER and electrocution disasters. Rudd was out by 20 or more under Turnbull.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 12:27 pm
Canadians say The Queen is to old to walk up 17 steps
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7079592.ece

tal

30 Mar 10 at 12:31 pm
Nicely put, CL.

Personally I blame an over-indulgence of pies.

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 12:32 pm
She looks like an effeminate man in a wig.

Peter Patton

30 Mar 10 at 12:35 pm
Good old Canada. If it weren’t for them and those limp wristed Brits, we Australians would be the biggest poofs on Earth. Good on the Queen for telling those OH&S nazis to shove their safety booklet in their Khybers.

Infidel Tiger

30 Mar 10 at 12:39 pm
Isn’t walking across some Oxbridge lawn or other forbidden to undergraduates or something? Whenever I think of Bird in these discussions, I always remember that custom and picture him traipsing across the grass anyway, throwing down Coke cans and burger wrappers, nude sunbathing, perhaps camping for a few days, telling the Tudor bonnet-wearing Masters they’re lying and to fuck off, doing whatever he likes.

That encapsulates Bird’s respect for disciplinary boundaries.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 12:40 pm
At least he’ll always have Phil, his one and only acolyte.

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 12:44 pm
Tiger I’d love to hear what The Duke said about the Canadians

tal

30 Mar 10 at 12:45 pm
James Lovelock calls for the suspension of democracy to combat “climate change.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/29/james-lovelock-climate-change

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 1:01 pm
“The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

So, how are those Gharkad trees getting on? To be honest, after reading that I have grave fears for the survival of the species….

Tim Quilty

30 Mar 10 at 1:06 pm
Climate Change got them Tim

tal

30 Mar 10 at 1:35 pm
“What is remarkable, therefore, is that Abbott has dominated and shaped all major debates since being elected Liberal leader.”

You must be a big admirer of the climax of Life of Brian, CL, always looking on the bright side as you do. The fact that (on current evidence) he may be positioning the party for even greater electoral defeat isn’t all that important, as long as we’re talking about him and his flakey policies, I suppose.

[insert comeback by CL about Rudd's flakier policies]

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 1:49 pm
The section in Lovecock’s interview CL linked to, about suspending democracy is bizzarely at odds with the rest of his comments which would be damned by many as a skeptic.

From the article:
“I respect their right to be sceptics. Nigel Lawson is an easy person to talk to. He’s more like a defence counsel for the sceptics than a right-winger banging the drum. His book is not a diatribe or polemic. He tries to reason his case.

There is one sceptic that everyone should read and that is Garth Paltridge. He’s written a book called the Climate Caper. It is a devastating, critical book. It is so good. This impresses me a lot. Like me, he’s convinced that if you put a trillion tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, which we will have done in 20 years’ time, it’s going to have some nasty effects, but what we don’t know if how nasty and when. If you look back on climate history it sometimes took anything up to 1,000 years before a change in one of the variables kicked in and had an effect. And during those 1,000 years the temperature could have gone in the other direction to what you thought it should have done. What right have the scientists with their models to say that in 2100 the temperature will have risen by 5C? There are plenty of incidences where something turns on the heat, but temperatures actually go down perversely, before eventually going up. A cold winter may mean nothing, as could 10 cold winters in a row.

The great climate science centres around the world are more than well aware how weak their science is. If you talk to them privately they’re scared stiff of the fact that they don’t really know what the clouds and the aerosols are doing. They could be absolutely running the show. We haven’t got the physics worked out yet. One of the chiefs once said to me that he agreed that they should include the biology in their models, but he said they hadn’t got the physics right yet and it would be five years before they do. So why on earth are the politicians spending a fortune of our money when we can least afford it on doing things to prevent events 50 years from now? They’ve employed scientists to tell them what they want to hear. The Germans and the Danes are making a fortune out of renewable energy. I’m puzzled why politicians are not a bit more pragmatic about all this.

We do need scepticism about the predictions about what will happen to the climate in 50 years, or whatever. It’s almost naive, scientifically speaking, to think we can give relatively accurate predictions for future climate. There are so many unknowns that it’s wrong to do it.”

and

“I’ve always said that adaptation is the most serious thing we can do. Are our sea defences adequate? Can we prevent London from flooding? This is where we should be spending our billions. If wind turbines really worked, I wouldn’t object to them. To hell with the aesthetics, we might need them to save ourselves. But they don’t work – the Germans have admitted it. It’s like the [EU] Common Agricultural Policy which led to corruption and inefficiencies. A common energy policy across Europe is not a good idea. I’m in favour of nuclear for crowded places like Britain for the simple reason that it’s cheap, effective and exceedingly safe when you look at the record. We’ve had it for 50 years, but I can understand the left hating it because it was Thatcher’s greatest weapon against the miners because we were then getting 30% of our electricity from nuclear. We could build a nuclear power station in five years, but it’s the legal and planning stuff that makes it take 15 years. If governments were serious they would undo this legislation that holds it back.

I don’t know enough abut carbon trading, but I suspect that it is basically a scam. The whole thing is not very sensible. We have this crazy idea that we are setting an example to the world. What we’re doing is trying to make money out of the world by selling them renewable gadgetry and green ideas. It might be worthy from the national interest, but it is moonshine if you think what the Chinese and Indians are doing [in terms of emissions]. The inertia of humans is so huge that you can’t really do anything meaningful.”

Steve Edney

30 Mar 10 at 1:55 pm
Yes, Lovelock is often very thoughtful and sensible.
His “gaia” was a metaphor – and not a bad one – it was never meant to be taken literally in the way that some greens have done.
I’m sure he is right about adaptation: it is what we have always done and it is what we will continue to do.

Ken Nielsen

30 Mar 10 at 2:00 pm
The ABC reports on Tony Abbott’s economic headline speech:

“In a speech that was light on policy detail but strong on attacks against Government “waste”, Mr Abbott said the overriding priority of the Coalition was to return the budget to surplus.

“Just as Bob Hawke was prepared to argue for floating the dollar and John Howard was prepared to argue for the GST, the next Coalition government must be prepared to argue for necessary reform against the power of vested interests and people’s mistrust of change,” he said.”

Nothing to see here folks.. Move on.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/30/2860225.htm

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 2:34 pm
TA: “Reform can’t be avoided if prosperity is to be secured.”

Hopefully he’s paving the way for a mssive overhaul of our tax system.

Infidel Tiger

30 Mar 10 at 2:37 pm
Meant to say “headland”, not “headline”…

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 2:38 pm
You must be a big admirer of the climax of Life of Brian, CL, always looking on the bright side as you do.

That’s quite a stretch coming from the man who was only removed from the ETS train wreck with the jaws of life.

[insert comeback by CL about Rudd's flakier policies]

I always love it when my more insecure interlocutors pre-emptively kneecap themselves for me. Not only has Abbott dominated politics (and your mind) since being elected Liberal leader, he has also exposed Rudd’s “policy” modus operandi for what it is: all talk and no action with a new Greatest Moral Challenge of Our Time every week.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 2:39 pm
iWe could build a nuclear power station in five years, but it’s the legal and planning stuff that makes it take 15 years. If governments were serious they would undo this legislation that holds it back.

All that planning arose out of the needs for the original reactors. The 3rd generation reactors are virtually failsafe and 4th generation reactors can use the fuel from those reactors and reduce total volume to 1% of total. So I suspect we could do away with a lot of these planning laws.

Many countries are planning more nuke plants and many of these are are leftist. Here in Aus the Left clearly dislikes nuke power as a policy statement but many leftists I know believe nuclear power is now inevitable and welcome it. I’m one of those, I have always considered nuke power to be inevitable with the exception there was a period when I believed we may be able to leap frog to fusion power. Too late to wait for that.

John H.

30 Mar 10 at 2:40 pm
Steve is still talking about Tony Abbott.

He dominates Australian politics.

Thanks for that ABC “report” too, Steve. Very authoritative.

Abbott’s doing a little better than Rudd, whose only policy in 2006-07 was to appear on Sunrise. He once requested a fake Dawn Service – which was a high point.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 2:42 pm
John,

the Report which Ziggy Switkowski, on behest of John howard, headed found that nuclear power needs a carbon tax or similar to be viable here

Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

30 Mar 10 at 2:43 pm
Another Rudd milestone:

100th asylum boat intercepts navy patrol.

Note that the headline writers of The Australian are now taking the piss out of Kevin’s spin.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 2:47 pm
We better get a bigger island CL

tal

30 Mar 10 at 2:50 pm
Joe, if you’re out there, the wings satyed on!

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=13&item=1072

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 2:52 pm
Silly little game you’re playing CL. Local train wrecks “dominate” the evening news too, but no one thinks they’re a good thing.

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 2:57 pm
LOl Yea I saw that, which is why the stock is up another 4% odd today. I think we’re going to have the $100 dollar pop soon. You jut gotta love “the $100 ” as you more often have that magic number as some sort of magnet. It’s not 74 bucks.

JC1

30 Mar 10 at 2:57 pm
The game was all the warmenists’, Steve. They tried to con the Australian public into believing kevin’s ETS would cool the planet. Abbott destroyed all that.

Heard of Penny Wong lately?

They should put a picture of her on milk cartons because she’s apparently a missing person.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 3:04 pm
Hey JC how’d your medical go?

tal

30 Mar 10 at 3:05 pm
Speaking of Bird and reading the PZ Meyers thread he seems to have got a fair bit of publicity for the LDP, even internationally.

Steve Edney

30 Mar 10 at 4:31 pm
I don’t think it was necessarily good publicity Steve.

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 4:39 pm
Now that HUMPHREYS! leader of the homosexual leftist part of the LDP has left will Bird want to represent them again in Dobell?

Steve Edney

30 Mar 10 at 4:45 pm
by an interesting coincidence, an article in the Times on triathlons (spotted via Lew Rockwell today)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article7065354.ece

jtfsoon

30 Mar 10 at 5:13 pm
More evidence of right wing loonies in the US:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1033537/us-christian-militia-members-charged

THR

30 Mar 10 at 5:53 pm
No, THR, I can’t see that they are right wing.
As they are described as “radical” more likely from your side.

Ken Nielsen

30 Mar 10 at 5:55 pm
THR how’s your girl?

tal

30 Mar 10 at 5:58 pm
Hey tal,

She’s going great. Gorgeously cute. She’s alert and chatty, and starting to roll around.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 6:02 pm
That’s awesome, THR.
I have to say that my firstborn (a boy) changed my life, utterly.

daddy dave

30 Mar 10 at 6:08 pm
Thanks DD. (And tal). As frightening as it was to contemplate parenting, it’s been pretty good so far. Adolescence may be less enjoyable…

THR

30 Mar 10 at 6:09 pm
“Adolescence may be less enjoyable…”
Ah, yes, there is that. But on the other side they become genuinely good adult company.

ken n

30 Mar 10 at 6:11 pm
And you can borrow money from them

tal

30 Mar 10 at 6:16 pm
Haven’t got to that stage yet, tal

ken n

30 Mar 10 at 6:23 pm
Stay in their good books Ken

THR is she getting an Easter Egg on Sunday?

tal

30 Mar 10 at 6:24 pm
She’s not yet on solids. However, the last time I ate a chocolate cake with her on my lap, she was literally grasping at the plate. She does the same with all foods. Milk isn’t as exciting as risotto.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 6:31 pm
Another good look for the Coalition under T Abbott:

“Just days after being moved from the finance portfolio, the Nationals senator has told a business lunch he used Productivity Commission reports “when I run out of toilet paper”.

It was a knock for Mr Abbott as he tried to reassure business leaders that the Coalition was serious about the economy in his first major speech on the nation’s finances.”

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/barnaby-joyce-undermines-tony-abbott-on-the-economy-again/story-e6frfku0-1225847647306

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 6:35 pm
Yep, you can count on good old Barnaby

ken n

30 Mar 10 at 6:38 pm
That’s a stupid thing for Barnaby to say. The Productivity Commission are one of the most useful public institutions we’ve got.

daddy dave

30 Mar 10 at 6:40 pm
Just for laughs – look at the headline of this article, then look at the name of the author:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

THR

30 Mar 10 at 6:54 pm
He’s from the bush, dd. The PC is hated out there.

dover_beach

30 Mar 10 at 7:00 pm
THR – That is hilarious!

Infidel Tiger

30 Mar 10 at 7:07 pm
Why is Barnaby being so uncharacteristically understated?

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 7:15 pm
I shall never understand the English:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/timesarchive/2010/03/the-times-goes-topless.html

BirdLab

30 Mar 10 at 7:19 pm
Erm, THR, Hamas don’t do self-defense, as I’ve taken pains to point out. They have attacked far more soft targets, such as pizza shops and ice cream parlours, than they have IDF (I would have absolutely no problem with them if shooting at IDF was all they had done). Murdering Jewish civilians and exalting in exterminationism is not “resistance”. It’s genocide. Hamas deserve to be squashed like insects.

On a more “meta” point. Would it really kill the Left to harshly condemn Actually Existing Fascism just once in a while, when we’re not holding their feet to the fire? I mean, really. It’s bad enough that they simply won’t, ever, say anything negative about Hamas on their own. It’s particularly concerning that after being forced into a position where condemnation would be the only honourable option, they still have to be brought kicking and screaming to the point of denouncing a murderous non-resistance fascist organisation like Hamas – and even then it will often be on grounds of “tactical utility”, not morality. There is something seriously wrong here.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 8:02 pm
They have attacked far more soft targets, such as pizza shops and ice cream parlours, than they have IDF

This hasn’t been true for several years. The few terrorists attacks that have occurred in Israel have been from fringe groups.

There is something seriously wrong here.

Yes, there is. You seem to think that people are entitled to self-defense if their government (and said government doesn’t even control the West Bank) meets the Fisk standards of moral purity. It doesn’t work that way.

THR

30 Mar 10 at 8:12 pm
That’s right, the Israelis built a security fence, which brought Hamas’ campaign of genocidal terrorism to an end. Otherwise, the only standard I have for a resistance group is that they target non-civilians. That’s a pretty lax standard I must confess, but there you have it.

In other news, THR still supports Hamas, despite being nominally on the “Left”. I am simply not well-read enough in the field of psychology to be able to explain how this is possible.

Michael Fisk

30 Mar 10 at 8:17 pm
Why don’t you likewise insist that the IDF target non-civilians? Why do you only apply these standards to Hamas, who, as I said, are not even in charge of the West Bank?

THR

30 Mar 10 at 8:19 pm
To say that Hamas is engaging in “genocide” is just silly.

Peter Patton

30 Mar 10 at 8:53 pm
Yes, I think the term “genocide” should be retired.
It happened once and there has been nothing since done to earn the term.

Ken Nielsen

30 Mar 10 at 8:55 pm
If “genocide” were retired, 75% of our Arts faculties would close.

Peter Patton

30 Mar 10 at 9:08 pm
Another good look for the Coalition under T Abbott.

Steve left out the part where Joyce comments on the houses Labor has burned down.

Incinerated houses of Working Australians: not a good look for K Rudd.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 10:24 pm
Chris Uhlmann’s summary on 7.30 Report tonight:

It’s hard to imagine that Senator Joyce ran a single word of this speech by his leader’s office before stepping up to the lectern and it’s hard to imagine any of it assists in rebuilding the Coalition’s economic credentials.

steve from brisbane

30 Mar 10 at 10:31 pm
“…ran a single word of this speech by his leader’s office.”

Hey, who ran the incineration scheme past the Labor leader’s office?

Answer: nobody. It was Kev’s idea. And it’s the worst public policy disaster in Australian history.

“…rebuilding the Coalition’s economic credentials.”

Best avoid the word (or any variation of the word) ‘building’ given the debacle Julia’s made of the BER. $1 million shade structure anyone?

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:28 pm
Very funny clip: hate-mongering Obama zombie and MSNBC “commentator” Ed Schultz gets destroyed when he suggests all of the extremism in current US politics is coming from TEH right. Watch as he’s proved wrong with examples (and his own words) and then becomes a spluttering, hysterical, angry lunatic.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/300005.php

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:34 pm
The ultimate luxury: the island boat.

C.L.

30 Mar 10 at 11:38 pm
HeHeHe “Round Mound of Sound” that’s funny

tal

30 Mar 10 at 11:59 pm
Not exactly a stranger to the bottom of the barrel, Abbott decides to take the low road this campaign with a beat-up of asylum seekers:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opposition-leader-tony-abbott-to-do-whatever-it-takes-to-stop-boat-people/story-e6frf7jo-1225847691654

What next? A Sarkozy-style campaign to ban the hijab?

THR

31 Mar 10 at 12:52 am
THR:

He’s not really beating up on boat people. He has a legit concern that.

1. we lose control of the borders
2. it’s unsafe for these people to be traveling on these rickety boats.

I’m in favor of even higher immigration levels and political asylum, however the current situation really does look like it’s problematic.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 1:05 am
JC, surely it’s the pathetic, Howard-era dog whistling of old. It’s also a sure sign the guy has no ideas whatsoever, and he’s banking on xenophobia to get him elected. I note that he’s also backflipped on hospitals, and is now described as ‘conciliatory’ with respect to Rudd’s ‘health reform’ policy.

THR

31 Mar 10 at 1:08 am
THR:
What dog whistling? Howard raised immigration levels to record levels. So how do you suggest xenophobic intentions with that sort of stat?

The concern has always been about the fact that we decide who comes here.

I’m sure he’s being conciliatory about the so-called “health reforms” which is really just pushing the control of dollars from the state to the federal level and if you call that reform the term has lost its meaning. He’s being as conciliatory as labor was when Costello announced the tax cuts before the election and labor matched it.

He’s a politician after all.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 1:18 am
I’m completely shocked! Shocked!

THE Kimberley’s peak indigenous body has attacked the “disgusting” tactics of green groups and out-of-town celebrities opposed to industrial development near Broome, accusing them of fundamental dishonesty and abusive, dirty politics.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/greenies-damaging-aborigines-over-kimberley-development/story-e6frgczf-1225847689507

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 2:33 am
Abbott decides to take the low road this campaign with a beat-up of asylum seekers.

What an incredibly daft and dishonest comment. Thanks to Kevin “Dietrich Bonhoeffer” Rudd’s “compassion,” 53 boat people have been killed and there are six times more people in detention now than when he was elected.

Lefties are OK with this.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:37 am
One band member burns down people’s homes and electrocutes others through implementation of bad policy while another is fucking up aboriginal lives.

Good one Midnight Oil.

Celebrities such as John Butler, Midnight Oil drummer Rob Hirst and Missy Higgins have joined retired Federal Court judge Murray Wilcox in pushing to stop the gas hub, accusing the Barnett government of riding roughshod over the rights of local Aborigines.

Arse hole music, arse hole band members.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 2:37 am
Bolt [ad homs away!]:

More boats, deaths, bills and detainees.

While Steve and the creme brulee set criticise Abbott for exercising, Rudd’s death toll – asylum seekers and insulation workers – is now 59.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:40 am
Tea Party in Griffith!

Humiliating:

Parents hijack $3m school plans in Kevin Rudd’s electorate.

PROTESTING parents have hijacked plans to spend $3 million of taxpayers’ money building a duplicate library and hall at a school in Kevin Rudd’s electorate.

Nine months after Education Minister Julia Gillard told federal parliament that Holland Park State School was “delighted” with the “once-in-a-lifetime enhancement of its facilities”, her department has quietly agreed to let the school swap the unneeded buildings for eight new classrooms.

The switch was made after lobbying by the school’s Parents and Citizens Association, which warned the Prime Minister repeatedly last year about potential rorting of his government’s $16.2 billion spending spree.

I’ve said it before: this is the worst government in modern Australian history, there’s no question about that now.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:44 am
Yeah, I’m shocked too, JC.

Actually, no I’m not.

We’ve seen in Queensland (rivers) and in the Territory (nuclear waste) the most grotesque racism from the left against Aboriginal people. The message is clear: you have property rights, darkies, provided you toe white fella lefty’s line. Otherwise, no blankets, beads and mirrors for you.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:48 am
I note that he’s also backflipped on hospitals, and is now described as ‘conciliatory’ with respect to Rudd’s ‘health reform’ policy.

Not at all. It was plain that Rudd’s emphasis on local control of hospitals was similar to what the Coalition proposed before the 2007 election in Tasmania so I’m not surprised that Abbott favours this aspect of Rudd’s plan. Recognising a point of agreement is not a backflip.

dover_beach

31 Mar 10 at 9:01 am
Hilarious new tweets from fake Bird

http://twitter.com/wingedmenace

So I figure that if I put copper wire in my microwave, I can prove that the speed of light is breakable. #modernphysicsisbullshit

So that Ray Martin fella has been outed as gay? I knew that journo lefty was a Humphreys style homosexualist

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 9:33 am
I wonder how Lewandowsky would characterize the following peer-reviewed paper?

Masahiro Ohashi and H. L. Tanaka, 2010: Vol. 6A (2010) : Data Analysis of Recent Warming Pattern in the Arctic. Special Edition -Special Edition of the Fourth Japan China Korea Joint Conference on Meteorology- p.1-4

In this study, we investigate the mechanism of the arctic warming pattern in surface air temperature (SAT) and sea ice concentrations over the last two decades in comparison with global warming since the 1970s.

According to the analysis result, it is found that the patterns of SAT and sea ice before 1989 are mostly determined by the Arctic Oscillation (AO) in winter. In contrast, arctic warming patterns after 1989 are characterized by the intensification of the Beaufort High and the reduced sea-ice concentrations in summer induced by the positive ice-albedo feedback.

It is concluded that the arctic warming before 1989 especially in winter was explained by the positive trend of the AOI. Moreover the intensified Beaufort High and the drastic decrease of the sea ice concentrations in September after 1989 were associated with the recent negative trend of the AOI. Since the decadal variation of the AO is recognized as the natural variability of the global atmosphere, it is shown that both of decadal variabilities before and after 1989 in the Arctic can be mostly explained by the natural variability of the AO not by the external response due to the human activity.

dover_beach

31 Mar 10 at 10:02 am
Jase:

how do you know it’s the fake bird. He sounds pretty real to me.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 10:15 am
I liked the winged menace tweet

“Just did the political compass test. Turns out I’m more of a Khmer Rouge libertarian. “

Steve Edney

31 Mar 10 at 10:25 am
anyone checked out Bird’s bog lately?

he has found some new victims, er commenters

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 10:39 am
Yes I had a look last night Jason, Graeme seens to be enjoying himself

tal

31 Mar 10 at 10:41 am
I think I may know who’s doing the tweets, Jason.

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 11:30 am
who is it BirdLab?

I’m guessing one of the bloggers Birdy has tangled with. Maybe someone from Pure Poison?

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 11:31 am
the copper wire references always made me suspect Tillman.

Steve Edney

31 Mar 10 at 11:42 am
Yes Jason, that was my guess too.

Anyway, this is going to shit the lunatic no end:

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/sci-tech/collider-team-make-huge-leap-in-solving-mystery-of-the-big-bang-20100331-rbrx.html?autostart=1

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 11:46 am
Would the pure poision people know who Fyodor was? – That could actually scratch my guess as well. The tweeter seems to concentrate on catallaxy commenters.

Steve Edney

31 Mar 10 at 11:48 am
I don’t think bird takes the results made by these science workers seriously.

Steve Edney

31 Mar 10 at 11:49 am
Birdy seems to think it’s me. Alas no. I used to think it was JohnZ but JohnZ has confirmed it wasn’t him.

One thing I noticed was that Pure Poison is on his list of followers.

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 11:51 am
I can only conclude it is someone who has been here at Catallaxy for a long long time since the early FRB threads of doom.

Steve Edney

31 Mar 10 at 11:52 am
Hilariously the narcissistic twat is now claiming to be a “scientist.”

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/pz-myers-tick-tick-tick-fucking-tock-motherfucker/

About 11 pars down.

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 11:57 am
Ponytail fail.

Charles Johnson scans a tea party crowd and breathlessly announces a fresh scandal:

“I’m fairly sure this is a neo-Nazi flag, but haven’t found the exact logo yet.”

But this bloke has identified it.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 11:57 am
Bird is a phenomenon. He doesn’t just have followers, he has obsessors.

He should release an aftershave. At least half the commentors on this blog would bathe in it.

Infidel Tiger

31 Mar 10 at 12:24 pm
I say, this lack of respect for Obama is a bit subversive. You must all be extremists (see link):

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/complicated_politics_explained/

Abu Chowdah

31 Mar 10 at 12:30 pm
Peter Hartcher: Pinstriped Ponce.

As Superintendent Chalmers once said: “Good lord! The rod up that man’s butt must have a rod up its butt!”

Infidel Tiger

31 Mar 10 at 12:35 pm
Another funny clip. As the Obama networks in the US faithfully publicise the “extremist” talking point laid out for them by Robert Gibbs, Chris “Tingles” Matthews brings on two guests to discuss the matter. One is a lefty Obama zombie from Princeton talking in Larvatus Prodeo sociological terms about how the Tea Party is a RACIST conspiracy. Less well known Dana Loesch – a tea party organiser – responds and destroys Tingles and the Obama zombie. Great dig at the end when she reminds the viewers that the Democrat Party filibustered the Civil Rights Act and that one of the men who did that is still in politics. His name: Robert Byrd. Tingles looks heartbroken that his set-up totally failed.

http://www.therightscoop.com/dana-loesch-fights-back-as-chris-matthews-paints-the-tea-party-as-racists/

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 12:38 pm
Too bloody right, Tiger. I remember Hartcher asking his one question during the Howard-Rudd election debate:

“P-p-p-p-p-p-p-prime Mah-muh-muh-mu-inister…”

I thought he was going to have a stroke he was so nervous. But, by god, the man can issue a divine ruling on Obama and his critics with fearless courage from the safety of his laptop.

Abu Chowdah

31 Mar 10 at 12:39 pm
Famously funny PM manages to make Australia look like a nation of humourless dickheads and then insult the US at the same time:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/kevin-rudd-hits-back-at-robin-williams-australian-jibe-on-us-talk-show/story-e6frf7jo-1225847893804

FFS. Imagine what state we’d be in if this guys speciality wasn’t foreign affairs.

Infidel Tiger

31 Mar 10 at 12:58 pm
Speaking to Eddie McGuire on his Triple M radio show this morning, Mr Rudd said: “First of all, I think Robin Williams should go and spend a bit of time in Alabama before he frames comments about anyone being particularly redneck.”

Great. We now have a PM that gets down and dirty with a comedian and insults another country.

This guy is a fucking idiot.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 1:09 pm
Graeme Bird: Ricky Martin fan

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/continuation-of-the-now-blocked-pz-myers-thread/#comments

But I’ll tell you what. If all the singers in the world could carry off a love-duet as good as the one I posted below!!!!!! …….. I wouldn’t care if every male singer in the world was a pillow-biter.

Matter of fact I’d welcome the trend and be happy for the eventuality. Ricky Martin has done sensational work like in the example below. He has nothing to apologise to anything about his personal life. Except for the specific sodomites whose heart he broke. And for all those girls that he lead on and failed to satiate.

Lets hear it from Ricky. Ricky. My general good impression of you is undiminished.

See the brother there. He’s smouldering. The sister too. I think it might be that he was a CONSERVATIVE gay man. A repressed gay man, That really helped with this excellent interpretation, though he was no trained actor.

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 1:15 pm
See he is a great writer,though he’s a bit cranky with you Jason

tal

31 Mar 10 at 1:17 pm
And you call me weird, Jason.

steve from brisbane

31 Mar 10 at 1:26 pm
Thought so Jason. Bird is totally gay.

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 1:31 pm
Holy Shit! Palin and LL Cool J to share the stage!:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/03/30/palin-to-host-first-special-on-fnc-special-guest-star-ll-cool-j/

Infidel Tiger

31 Mar 10 at 1:49 pm
I think the redneck jibe probably hit close to home for the man who says he lived in a Morris Minor as a child.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:28 pm
Peter Costello memorialises and ridiculues The Greatest Moral And Economic Challenge of Our Time.

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 2:30 pm
Some nice hires pics of Lardulous’s Tubes on Mars, which actually turn out to be – sand dunes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/mars-tree-photo-nasa-hiri_n_421507.html

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 5:22 pm
jesus
Lew Rockwell.com has well and truly been taken over by the nutters. Mises would be turning in his grave to see someone so closely associated with the Mises Institute promoting this rubbish

http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/was-hw-bush-part-of-jfk-conspiracy.html

jtfsoon

31 Mar 10 at 5:28 pm
The Martian highways aren’t really highways.

A real gotcha moment, hey BirdLab?

C.L.

31 Mar 10 at 5:46 pm
THR

Your reduction of the public debate over boat people during the 1990s and beyond is very simplistic – wrong actually – in its reduction to simple “Howard dog-whistling.” Howard was far from the ‘tail wagging the dog.’ He was responding to very clear and loud demands from the polity to take action. Had he refused, he would never have become Australia’s second longest serving PM.

Peter Patton

31 Mar 10 at 5:51 pm
He’s apparently on the hootch this afternoon, CL, so I hope the dope sees it.

BirdLab

31 Mar 10 at 5:56 pm
Memo to Steve. Another exciting blogpost on web 2.0 and the Government 2.0 taskforce by Nick Gruen

http://clubtroppo.com.au/2010/03/31/hoisted-from-archives-abc-2-0/

Jason Soon

31 Mar 10 at 6:51 pm
Thanks Jason, I occasionally need a cure for insomnia.

steve from brisbane

31 Mar 10 at 8:05 pm
This is hilarious. A software engineer admits he doesn’t want to be a geek anymore and advises other geeks to get out, get a girlfriend and join the human race.

Shiny, are you listening?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdxSL3RrPZM&feature=related

But he’s still a geek though.

JC1

31 Mar 10 at 11:47 pm
From the Labour police state of Britain:

Grandmother fined, tagged and on curfew for selling goldfish to minor.

A BRITISH grandmother has been heavily fined and electronically tagged for selling a goldfish to a child, triggering criticism of over-zealous use of animal protection laws.

Pet shop owner Joan Higgins, 66, was fined £1000 ($1640) also given a dusk-to-dawn curfew for selling an animal to a person under the age of 16, but her 47-year-old son Mark – also ordered to do community service – slammed the ruling as a farce.

The pair were prosecuted after the local council sent a 14-year-old boy to buy a goldfish in a “sting” operation following reports that their shop, Majors Pets, had sold a gerbil to a teenager with learning difficulties.

The shopkeepers sold the fish without asking his age or how the fish would be cared for, prosecutors said.

Coming soon to a Labor-led country near you.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 2:29 am
Heh heh. A long, long piece of Guy Rundle political psychoanalysis from a distance on Tony Abbott is up at Crikey.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/2010/04/01/save-a-space-in-the-sepulchre-abbott-is-85-over/

Of course, because it is close to being a political obituary for Abbott, I find it all very cogent and convincing.

steve from brisbane

1 Apr 10 at 8:15 am
Inflamed by the constant hammering by steel drum bands JC’s psychosis takes a firmer grip

We now have a PM that gets down and dirty with a comedian and insults another country.

This guy is a fucking idiot.

When it comes to insults JC is your man.

rog

1 Apr 10 at 8:36 am
Here’s Emo in the Oz today talking about california:

“Here’s a dreadful thought: California is the natural evolution of modern capitalism. In the early years a market system enables enormous wealth creation based on reward for effort, risk-taking and entrepreneurship. Affluent, articulate and electorally powerful citizens, as beneficiaries of market-based wealth creation, begin demanding more state-provided services and regulations whose burden is carried by low-skilled workers losing their jobs.”

Now do you think he is really talking about the evolution of capitalism or of democracy?

pedro

1 Apr 10 at 8:52 am
Rog:

Does Geoffrey get you to wear condoms over your head? Just asking.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:15 am
Steve:

You’re now posting links to Guy Rundle (“Melbourne writer”) as an authoritative reference on Abbott that right wingers should read and find credible?

No kidding but were your brains aborted.

That idiot has the credibility of Homer on a bad day.

You really are freaking annoying, Steve.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:20 am
Yeah, JC, and I find all your comments an absolute pleasure for their erudite and well argued positions.

steve from brisbane

1 Apr 10 at 9:27 am
Steve, you sort of gave the game away by beginning with “Heh heh”.

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 9:31 am
Steve:
You’re really an annoying troll. Honestly, are you that freaking dumb that you would think anything, anything the twerp would ever write have any weight with right wingers?

I’m asking you a serious question, so try to answer it for a change.

You’re even stupider that Rog and Homer at times and just as freaking irritating.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:32 am
d_b, maybe I agree whole heartedly with 60% of it as a guess, and qualified agreement with another 20%. (Just rough figures.)

steve from brisbane

1 Apr 10 at 9:36 am
Oh I get it. Steve is playing an april fools joke by pretending to post a link to Rundle. That’s funny Steve.

(Recently the Guyster had a play on in Melb. that lasted perhaps all of one week. From what i heard it was a resounding failure.)

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:37 am
I’m 63.87% in disagreement, 22.36% qualified, 4.57% in agreement.

You turkey

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:41 am
JC, you got to agree, don’t you, that his background and recent controversies (his silly “threatened” slip,eg) does make Abbott a particularly choice target for amateur psychoanalysis of this type? And as I’ve said before, no one is completely wrong all the time.

steve from brisbane

1 Apr 10 at 9:43 am
And as I’ve said before, no one is completely wrong all the time.

Yea? Like Rundle?

Yea, he’s 60% right. LOL

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 9:47 am
In other April fools jokes, Tim Lambert posts his comments on the treatment and goings on about a supposedly rejected research paper ( I say supposedly as you never know the truth with him).

Lambert ought to be the last academic on earth talking about rejected peer reviewed papers seeing his cupboard on that score is about as filled as an anorexic’s food pantry.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 10:01 am
Speaking of fools. And gullible ones at that:

“The skull is 900 years old. And it proves that we have been visited by aliens as recently as that. Now I would have assumed that we would have interstellar travelers. But I just went on the apriori basis that since the distances were so vast, that this would probably be a once every several million years type of deal. Its pretty shocking to find that this has happened within the last millenia. Not only that. The aliens had a breeding project somewhere in the Mexico region.”

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/congratulations-to-lloyd-pye-why-on-earth-would-aliens-come-here/

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 10:20 am
…his background and recent controversies (his silly “threatened” slip,eg) does make Abbott a particularly choice target for amateur psychoanalysis.

I’d rather psychoanalyse the husband of a Howard-made millionaire who jeers at New York crack whores, verbally assaults women and has had six personal assistants resign from his office since being elected.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 10:23 am
it’s convergent evidence, Lab.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 10:24 am
More “policy” triumph:

Rudd hands over another $500 million for rorts.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 10:24 am
Birdlab, who’s the lady in your avatar?

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 10:27 am
CL, if anything, this government will redefine the meaning of ‘success’.

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 10:29 am
That’s Guy Rundle on the right:

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/01/18/fidler_narrowweb__300x430,0.jpg

No wonder he’s insecure.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 10:30 am
The psychosis seems to be getting worse, JC. But since he’s now declared himself to be a “scientist”…

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 10:34 am
No wonder he’s insecure.

His ‘eyes’ betray him.

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 10:34 am
Good question DB. In the absence of any specific knowledge I think i’ll just declare her to be Lady GaGa.

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 10:35 am
Methinks Guy needs to go for a bit of a jog

tal

1 Apr 10 at 10:50 am
Ross McKitrick:

This is the story of how I spent 2 years trying to publish a paper that refutes an important claim in the 2007 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). The claim in question is not just wrong, but based on fabricated evidence. Showing that the claim is fabricated is easy: it suffices merely to quote the section of the report, since no supporting evidence is given. But unsupported guesses may turn out to be true. Showing the IPCC claim is also false took some mundane statistical work, but the results were clear. Once the numbers were crunched and the paper was written up, I began sending it to science journals. That is when the runaround began. Having published several against-the-flow papers in climatology journals I did not expect a smooth ride, but the process eventually became surreal.

http://sites.google.com/site/rossmckitrick/gatekeeping.pdf?attredirects=0

You cannot read the full story and believe that climate science is worthy of great respect.

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 11:19 am
Video Flashback: When Dissent Was Legal.

Stick with it until the last soundbite.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 11:28 am
That’s Guy Rundle on the right:

Happy looking little thing, isn’t he? He’s proof positive of Hives Hamilton’s “unhappiness” theory.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 11:35 am
Guy is a bit of a loser, as Tim Blair noted back in 2006.

Vulture, an ABC arts program produced by leftoid Guy Rundle, was recently cancelled following eight months of development and only seven weeks of actual shows. Rundle and his tax-funded friends didn’t take this news very well: “Insiders report screams echoing down the corridors as the team behind it was informed.”

After that, Guy went off the rails well and truly – concluding hysterically in 2008 that “society has collapsed.”

Now he’s taking a leaf out of his fellow fatso Bob Ellis’s book and making stuff up. Barnaby Joyce – the former president of his St Vincent de Paul Society branch – is a League of Rights man, he casually lies today. Rundle also lied about the interview regarding Abbott’s family and daughters. And the virginity mockery is strange coming from the man who attacked Bristol Palin for being a slut.

Pamela Bone’s demolition job of Rundle the coward still has the zing it had when it was written.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 11:38 am
Wasn’t Pamela great? May she rest in peace

tal

1 Apr 10 at 11:43 am
The private sector delivers laptops.

Includes loveliest news pic of the week:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/joy-as-computer-power-comes-to-yirrkala/story-e6frgakx-1225848236378

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 12:59 pm
Border protection:

80 aboard as 101st asylum-seeker boat arrives undetected at Christmas Island.

Lucky for us Kevin is working on ‘policy’ and not exercising like Toy Abbott!

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 1:01 pm
Here’s a pic of a child who waited for Kevin’s laptop promise to be delivered:

http://news.cnet.com/i/ne/p/2005/0803mummy_500x381.jpg

Infidel Tiger

1 Apr 10 at 1:05 pm
The late Pamela Bone:

However, I may be old, weak and sick, but I have one thing Mr Rundle will never have: guts.

Lol. And the Guyster was heard screaming when his show was cancelled. Screaming… hahahahha.

No surprise that Steve links to this loser.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 1:07 pm
Here’s a pic of a child who waited for Kevin’s laptop promise to be delivered.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 1:10 pm
OK, this is funny. I anticipate Lambert running defence for this bloke any day:

Democrat Congressman Hank Johnson: Guam could ‘tip over and capsize’.

Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) is afraid that the U.S. Territory of Guam is going to “tip over and capsize” due to overpopulation.

Johnson expressed his worries during a House Armed Services Committee hearing on the defense budget Friday.

Addressing Adm. Robert Willard, who commands the Navy’s Pacific Fleet, Johnson made a tippy motion with his hands and said sternly, “My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.”

Willard paused and said: “We don’t anticipate that.”

Clip here. Johnson seriously appears to be retarded.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 1:15 pm
Anyone in Melbourne wanting to check out some comedy might want to see Dr Brown Behaves. Saw him the night before last. Hilarious.
.
Warning: confronting humour. And don’t sit in the front row.

Adrien

1 Apr 10 at 1:17 pm
Prime Mincer makes Instapundit… for all the wrong reasons. What a cock.

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/96820/

Infidel Tiger

1 Apr 10 at 1:28 pm
Clip here. Johnson seriously appears to be retarded.

It was embarrassing to watch. Surely it was part of some sort of fillibuster?

dover_beach

1 Apr 10 at 1:38 pm
Who’s that lesbian next to Rundle? Looks like a young Helen Clarke.

Peter Patton

1 Apr 10 at 2:34 pm
Might be life in the old thread yet:

http://sickofpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/low-iq-kills/#comment-877

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 2:46 pm
I’ve just added more evidence for Bird over there.

convergent evidence.

Steve Edney

1 Apr 10 at 3:00 pm
Jason, I appear to be stuck in moderation over there. Wrong email address or something.

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 4:23 pm
Someone tell Graeme I have a bridge I’d like to sell him:

http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/congratulations-to-lloyd-pye-why-on-earth-would-aliens-come-here/#comment-28398

BirdLab

1 Apr 10 at 4:28 pm
Vive l’Anarchy!

Communications minister Stephen Conroy has defended Australia’s proposed internet filter by arguing that allowing websites to remain uncensored is a “recipe for anarchy”.

In an interview with Fairfax Media, Senator Conroy said that the internet was not “special” and should be censored in the same way as books, films and newspapers.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/1034842/internet-without-laws-a-recipe-for-anarchy

What a prick this Conroy is. It’ not just child pornography that’s being targeted, but satirical sites likes Encyclopedia Dramatica.

THR

1 Apr 10 at 5:24 pm
‘Teabonics’:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pargon/sets/72157623594187379/

THR

1 Apr 10 at 5:30 pm
It’s actually anything he says it is – including the blacklist itself.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 5:31 pm
I hope a few ALP voters have the sense to preference Conroy last next time around. The Firewall is one of the stupidest ideas to have emerged from any Australian pollie in the last few years. Sadly, I doubt it will get any traction.

THR

1 Apr 10 at 5:34 pm
My personal favourite in the protest banner spelling stakes.

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 5:36 pm
CL remember Mother Sheehan and co? They loved Mercedes Benz

tal

1 Apr 10 at 5:40 pm
THR I say we get medieval with Conroy

tal

1 Apr 10 at 5:43 pm
Tal, I remember!

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 5:43 pm
Had an interesting conversation with a plugged in technology dude this evening.

H thinks Wimax/wireless will carry 10 times the traffic of fiber. Thinks cable lines will be made redundant by wireless. We would be wasting $43 billion with a fiber line in 7 years time.

The Iphone is even a serious competitor to Google which is why google was desperately trying to bring a phone to the market. People will do their stuff over the iphone or an applet. Hard to see how $25 billion of ads will hold up with open sourcing iphone applications.

Iphone will change the world.

eg.
Buy a movie ticket over an Iphone which you will pay for there an then and the Iphone will show a ticket on the screen that you will be able to use to get to your assigned seat.

Movie theatres will be able to sell the best seats for more money thereby increasing their return on assets.

More later.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 5:47 pm
Former “dilomat,” Kevin Rudd, creates an international incident with Alabama.

Honestly, is there anything this idiot can’t screw up?

C.L.

1 Apr 10 at 7:09 pm
JC,
Fibre will always (technically it must) have more capacity than WiMax. That is not to say, though, that WiMax will not provide enough capacity in a very flexible format to do all that we need it to do.

Andrew Reynolds

1 Apr 10 at 7:24 pm
Its the Easter Weekend, and the mandatory petrol prices story appears:

Professor wants his two cents back
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/100401/2/2c4f4.html

Capitalist Piggy

1 Apr 10 at 10:29 pm
Stallone, Lundgren, Rourke, Willis, Li, Shwarzenegger, Statham… if you’re not excited, check your testicles:

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/31/trailer-the-expendables-god-guns-and-guts/

Infidel Tiger

1 Apr 10 at 10:31 pm
I don’t agree Andrew. At least i don’t agree we need to spend $43 billion when the larger data carry will be done through wireless.

JC1

1 Apr 10 at 11:40 pm
Man, that movie looks good, Tiger.

No Leonardo DiCaprio, though?

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 1:03 am
With anti-Catholic fanatic Tony Jones beclowning himself on Lateline about Benedict XVI (you knew he was in trouble when he wheeled out professional pope hater Paul Collins), the actualy story has passed him by. T

he hitherto somewhat anti-papal New York Daily News calls bullshit on the latest invented attempt to slander Benedict XVI. George Weigel unpacks The Big Lie. Meanwhile, NBC invents a quote and headline to (literally) slander Benedict – which it has apologised for and withdrawn. An internal investigation is now underway but the incident eloquently exposes the true agenda at play.

Damien Thompson – a hardline clerical abuse activist – points out that the New York Times has “seriously screwed up its coverage of the Pope” and also publishes the key witness the NYT deliberately failed to consult – leading inevitably to this latest journalistic disaster. Parishioners at

So now the why. Mary Ann Glendon suggests a liberal get-square against the Church for the opposition from the Catholic bishops to the Obama administration’s abortion-enabling health care “reform.” In any case, what is clear is that liberals see Benedict as an enemy of their failed worldview and judge him to be someone who must be assassinated, morally, in the public square – from which they hope the Church flees.

They failed.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 2:58 am
Cardinal Levada finishes of the NYT. The paper’s journalist for this story, Laurie Goodstein, ought to be fired. But I’m guessing her editors will simply move her to another assignment as if nothing had happened.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 4:11 am
Rudd’s international incident vis-a-vis Alabama escalates and now Robyn Williams is mocking Kev.

“Nice comeback, way to go K-Rudd. How’s the food on the plane? Good day,” Williams said on Australian radio.

“I was just there for two weeks; every time I’ve been in Australia it’s been wonderful. I love it down there. Helloooo!”

Williams offered this apology: “Mr Rudd, I apologise, it’s linguistics; I would like to modify my terminology and say: English Good Old Boy.

“If the term redneck is offensive forgive me sir …

“Please let me come back to Australia without a cavity search, and if not I’d love to go to a strip club with you in New York.”

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 11:26 am
So who says he still hasn’t got it? LOL!!

Capitalist Piggy

2 Apr 10 at 1:25 pm
Why has there been so little comment around the traps about Tim Blair suing Pure Poison? Goes right to the heart of what blogs and the blogosphere are all about – free flow of ideas, vigorous debate and its free for all culture. Does seem odd, a journalist taking on a journalist, something Blair himself has opposed in the past. Then there is the issue itself – accusing Blair of using a sockpuppet is hardly damning attack on his character. Hasn’t he done the same himself? Perhaps skepticlawyer could give us her take on the issues, legal or otherwise.

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 2:23 pm
It’s just a well Williams has backed off. KRudd would be way out of depth against Williams and end up making Australians look like witless fools unable to produce a decent comeback.

Michael Sutcliffe

2 Apr 10 at 3:11 pm
Could you imagine Downer (in full form) or Costello against Williams? Now that would be entertaining!!

Michael Sutcliffe

2 Apr 10 at 3:11 pm
Spiegel, “Climate Catastrophe
A Superstorm for Global Warming Research”

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,686697,00.html

dover_beach

2 Apr 10 at 4:05 pm
I don’t know if CL is familiar with the work of Andrew Sullivan, a conservative Catholic, but he is calling it for the New York Times, “The Vatican Spins; the NYT wins”
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/04/father-brundage-is-wrong.html

“But the NYT’s coup de grace against the Vatican comes with the theocon chief witness, Father Brundage. Brundage had claimed he had been misquoted in the NYT, and that the trial was indeed ongoing at the time of Murphy’s death. Brundage, now seeing documents he had not seen before, reverses himself”

I think it too soon to call. We have some way to go before the truth emerges, but on top of what has been uncovered in Germany, this is not good for the Holy Father. And to think it involved deaf children, 200 of them no less. Sickening. There is no end to the wickedness of this world, perpetrated by a man of God in this case.

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 4:37 pm
C.L.,
Are you aware of the practice of moving people on as if nothing had happened when they make egregious error? I seem to have heard of that happening before.

Andrew Reynolds

2 Apr 10 at 5:47 pm
Sorry, nice try, but Andrew Sullivan is not a “conservative Catholic.” He is an ultra-liberal gay “marriage” fanatic and a lockstep pro-”choice” adherent. He loathes Benedict XVI because he won’t alter Tradition to suit the HIV-positive Sullivan’s personal sexual preferences (which run to advertising for unprotected anal sex on the internet under the pseudonym “Milky Loads”).

Especially spectacular as EPIC FAIL was the NYT’s attempt to wedge people from bishops. From the pulpit, New York’s Archbishop Timothy Dolan called out the paper yesterday for lying and viciousness and received a standing ovation from the entire congregation.

Brundage had claimed he had been misquoted in the NYT.

No, he pointed out that he wasn’t interviewed by the Times at all. If he was, the newspaper could have spared itself a lot of embarrassment. As it happens, though, in failing this badly the NYT has achieved at least one worthwhile thing: proved once again that it is now the house journal of the lunar left (including Palin fake pregnancy truther, Andrew Sullivan).

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 5:58 pm
My goodness CL you are an excitable fellow. And all worked up over this issue I see. I am not as familiar with Sullivan’s sexual proclivities as you appear to be, but I’ve always taken the view that what a chap does with his genitalia is none of my business. Nor does it address the intellectual arguments he makes. In any event it does not appear to have stopped Sullivan from becoming one of the most influential voices around, thanks to his blog and his columns, including one for The Sunday Times. I’m afraid CL this means he has more clout than you and I put together, many times over, and he does take a different view of it. As for his conservative credentials, I know from my professional circles that his work on Oakeshott and “The Conservative Soul” are well regarded.

As to his views on the Pope and his handling of the world-wide child torture allegations levelled against his priests and bishops, Sullivan is not alone, even among more conservative commentators, for exampleRod Dreher and various writers at Commonweal such as Paul Moses:
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=7601

And you cited Cardinal Levada earlier, but of course he was the man who shielded the sexually predatory founder of the cult, theLegionaries of Christ, Marcial Maciel. A tawdry business all around I’m afraid.

For myself, I prefer to keep an open mind and await further developments. But I do think that Ross Couthat offers some sensible advice: “But Catholics — and especially Catholic leaders, from the Vatican to the most far-flung diocese — should welcome it (criticism), both as a spur to virtue and as a sign that their faith still matters, that their church still looms large over the affairs of men, and that the world still cares enough about Christianity to demand that Catholics live up to their own exacting standards.”

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 7:25 pm
ooops, should have been Ross Douthat. Link here:
http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/the-position-of-the-church/

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 7:29 pm
Perhaps we can agree that the Vatican has shown commendable compassion in forgiving the children ultimately responsible for this whole regrettable business: “As Jesus said, ‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,’” the pope continued. “We must send a clear message to these hundreds—perhaps thousands—of children whose sinful ways have tempted so many of the church’s servants into lustful violation of their holy vows of celibacy. The church forgives them for their transgressions and looks upon them not with intolerance, but compassion.”
http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-forgives-molested-children,101/

Ahem to that.

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 7:34 pm
My goodness CL you are an excitable fellow. And all worked up over this issue I see.

That’s pretty funny coming from someone who has now written four hysterical posts on the subject and who has never bothered to comment here before. It seems the epic failure of the New York Times has struck a nerve and brought the Sullivanesque loonies out of the woodwork. Once again – just for the record – Andrew Sullivan is not a “conservative Catholic.” He’s a well-known Benedict-hating oddball who believes – amongst other things – that Sarah Palin wore a rubber pregnancy suit in 2008 to fake a confinement on behalf of her daughter. Sullivan has become such an international laughing stock that serious questions have been raised about the possibly deleterious side-effects on his health from the cocktail of HIV drugs he takes, perforce.

Douthat is right about the “halo of hatred”.

The Catholic Church is not unique among large institutions in having a problem with sexual abuse. The American public school system is rife with sexual misconduct, and the same is presumably true of most religious denominations, Boy Scout-type groups and so forth. Any organization devoted to the care and education of the young is going to attract would-be abusers, and provide settings for misconduct and criminality. Nor was the Catholic Church unique in misunderstanding the scope of the crisis it faced from the early 1960s through the 1980s: Catholicism’s abuse problem wouldn’t have spiraled so far out of control if a host of American professions — psychiatrists, policemen, lawyers, judges, etc. — hadn’t been similarly inclined to downplay the risks of abuse and overstate the ease with which the problem could be managed. Nor, finally, is the archbishop wrong to see a certain amount of anti-Catholic and anti-religious animus motivating the media’s often-obsessive coverage of the priest-abuse scandals, and the level of scrutiny that the church receives relative to other institutions.

I prefer to keep an open mind and await further developments.

Well again, sorry, but the horse has bolted. The NYT’s story was false and is now unrecoverably smashed. They went too far with their nineteenth century Know-Nothingism this time and it has further undermined what little remains of their reputation. They ahave ttempted to drive the Church and the pope from the public square. They failed.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 8:10 pm
In the Lutheran journal, Logia, John Stephenson defends the pope and brilliantly demolishes the New York Times for its “barefaced lie”.

Devastating.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 8:15 pm
Paul Krugman supports Death Panels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aogCaGv9i78

Capitalist Piggy

2 Apr 10 at 8:15 pm
I don’t know if CL is familiar with the work of Andrew Sullivan, a conservative Catholic, but he is calling it for the New York Times,
.
Sullivan is not conservative. Period.
Okay, sure he may have been conservative once upon a time, but on all the key issues of today, he is on the left.
The only people who call him conservative are ideological warriors who think that this is some kind of rhetorical weapon, quoting far-left opinions coming from a nominal “conservative.”
Writing “conservative” on a business card or a blog bio doesn’t make it so.

daddy dave

2 Apr 10 at 9:08 pm
And Jesus said unto his disciples, “Whom do men say
that I am?”

And His disciples answered unto Him, “Master,
thou art the supreme eschatological manifestation
of omnipotent ecclesiastical authority, the absolute,
divine, sacerdotal monarch.”

And Jesus said, “What?”

Capitalist Piggy

2 Apr 10 at 9:13 pm
My dear Mr CL, I’m beginning to think you “have a dog is this fight” as the saying goes. Could it be that you are a papist, to invoke a somewhat provocative term? As for the Times attempting “to drive the Church and the pope from the public square”, I think you may be making rather too much of a couple of news reports and columns. Settle dear fellow. And I believe I’m right in thinking that it was newspapers in Germany that carried the first reports of the Popes connections with priestly child rapists there? This whole business is about much more than one newspaper – the media world wide have been flooded with this stuff for years now. Have you turned your mind to why it is that the Catholic Church, in particular, seems to have such a proportionally large number of predatory child molesters in its ranks, and why it has been so slow to deal with the issue over a very long period. That surely is the important question here?

As for Sullivan, say what you will about his veiws on various current issues, but he is influential and he is in good standing with conservative intellectuals. He argues that he is approaching these matters from a genuinely conservative intellectual position and that it is mainstream conservatism that has lost its way – given itself over to ratbag populism, cultural tribalism and the politics of resentment in the mere pursuit of power. It simply won’t do to dismiss him with simplistic rants about his sexuality or because you don’t like the stance he takes on particular issues of the day. And, he has done much more than stamp “conservative” on his business card … there is a substantial body of work behind him, which is rather more than you can say for yourself I suspect, daddy dave? A few blog posts on Catallaxy echoing boilerplate right-wing talking points does not a conservative thinker make.

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 9:31 pm
But in fact I’m not terribly interested in the latest travails of the Catholic Church (apart from wanting them to stop ruining the lives of children with torture and abuse).

I am rather more interested in the matter of Blair v Crikey, and am at a loss to understand why a veil of secrecy, rather like that which the church tried to throw over its pederast priest problem, has decended over it. This surely should excite the interest of Catallaxy, being as it is, a blog, and a libertarian blog at that. Surely the authors and commenters here are offended by the very notion of a blogger suing another blog over what seems on the surface of it to be a fairly innocuous remark. Having a sockpuppet is not a hanging offence (way down the scale from kiddy fiddling).

But that is beside the point. Australia’s defamation laws have long been regarded severe, and an impediment to free speech, to openness and transparency, to a robust exchange of views. The idea that a blogger – one with his own bully pulpit to protect and defend himself – would rush to the courts to punish another blogger, is surely offensive to everything Catallaxy stands for? Aside from the damage Blair does to his calling, there is the damage he does to his own brand. It has been pointed out in the popular press that he was against litigation before he was before it. And as someone who has played it hard himself, does he not make himself look foolish and thin-skinned by taking this action?

I think that in his own best interests and in the wider interest of free speech he ought be dissuaded from this course of action. There are important principles at stake here. His actions have a tendency to promote self-censorship, never a healthy thing. It is a cause Catallaxy should take up – perhaps by writing an open letter to Blair signed by all the authors and invite commenters to put there names to it?

[This is the first I have heard of any lawsuit. We do not presume to know Tim's interests better than he does. Sinc]

The Dirty Digger

2 Apr 10 at 10:03 pm
Have you turned your mind to why it is that the Catholic Church, in particular, seems to have such a proportionally large number of predatory child molesters in its ranks.

Your beloved New York Times reported on the massive sexual abuse crisis in the protestant denominations (US alone) in 2007. Because there is no institutional unity for these diverse ‘churches,’ no newsworthy scandal ever gets legs. Newspapers don’t care if Pastor Chuck Smith of the First Really and Truly Independent Baptist Church of Reno, Nevada, is caught molesting a child. Much less do they care that hundreds of Chuck Smiths are so caught in any given year. So you’re being dishonest again. Most children who are abused, of course, are abused in non-Christian institutions by married men (most of whom, statistically, are non-believers). It’s also true to say that no institution on earth educates, clothes, feeds, medically treats and saves more children than the Catholic Church.

Sullivan, a laughing stock, is not in the least bit “influential,” except to the lunar left. He has been widely condemned recently for anti-semitism and – as I said – some commentators saw his Palin rubber pregnancy suit conspiracy theory as possible evidence of psychiatric problems. I’m not coming down on either side of that theory but let’s just say that he has significant personal issues that appear unresolved.

In any case, the take-home story about the NYT’s attempt to silence and wound Benedict XVI is that they’ve failed.

And how. Lapsed Lutheran and atheist, Hans-Ludwig Kröber, is Germany’s most influential criminal psychologist. A specialist in child sexual abuse, he has dismissed – with significant prejudice – the phony talk of a crisis engulfing the Church in Benedict’s native Germany.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 10:12 pm
No, the New York Times case against Benedict XVI has now collapsed unrecoverably. And no, Sullivan is not a “conservative” and is not particularly influential. It wouldn’t matter terribly if he was influential (like, say, Rush Limbaugh) anyway. He’s hitched his nutty Trig truther star to a three-wheeled wagon.

On the other matter:

Please CL, I have no interest in a personal stoush with a fellow I do not know.

Didn’t you just call for a PETITION against Tim Blair?

Anyway, I had to Google what you were talking about because I hadn’t heard about it. First: libertarians are not opposed to defamation proceedings. Second: Blair is arguing – with a pretty high degree of confidence, obviously – that Crikey lied when it accused him of falsifying his own comments thread. In journalism, that’s a serious charge. Crikey did, in fact, apologise (unsatisfactorily) for the claim.

C.L.

2 Apr 10 at 10:38 pm
As for Sullivan, say what you will about his veiws on various current issues, but he is influential and he is in good standing with conservative intellectuals.
.
The entire conservative movement has disavowed him.
.
Why has there been so little comment around the traps about Tim Blair suing Pure Poison? Goes right to the heart of what blogs and the blogosphere are all about – free flow of ideas, vigorous debate and its free for all culture.
.
The blogosphere isn’t some hippy-trippy bastion of freedom and love where anything goes. The laws of the land still apply. There’s no such thing as a “free for all culture”. If such a culture were to arise it would quickly be overrun by tyrants, who would by definition face no resistance since their actions, like all actions, are okay.
.
There’s a growing catalog of civil and criminal proceedings now for the internet. Why is this one remarkable? Because it’s a “blogger?”

daddy dave

2 Apr 10 at 10:48 pm
Keep in mind also, pure poison was the successor to blairboltwatch, it’s original mission being to attempt to take down Blair and Bolt, using a range of tactics. This detailed inspection of Blair’s IP address wasn’t a one-off in a fun-loving blog that covers all manner of issues. The very purpose of the blog – not just that post, but the entire blog ffs – was to attempt to find instances of wrondoing by Blair and Bolt. This instance not withstanding, a lawsuit is unsurprising.

daddy dave

2 Apr 10 at 11:44 pm
Incidentally, don’t be surprised if all our comments on this topic get nuked. Just sayin’.

[Funny you should mention that. Sinc]

daddy dave

2 Apr 10 at 11:51 pm
[THR - please no comments like that. Sinc]

THR

2 Apr 10 at 11:59 pm
Okay. Emails arrive to tell me that Tim Blair is suing somebody. This was the first I had heard of this. I have edited the thread; some comments are somewhat changed, others are gone.

Sinclair Davidson

3 Apr 10 at 10:21 am
wow, this thread really got a haircut. Probably a smart move.

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 12:19 pm
It’s disappointing, but obviously a blog isn’t worth the threats and harassment.

Maybe Conroy will help out our friend by including an ‘immeasurable hurt’ option as part of his net filter package.

THR

3 Apr 10 at 12:46 pm
I’ve ended up cutting more than I would have liked, but was stuggling to keep some coherence in what was left over. That combined with an early meeting meant the blunt axe approach.

Sinclair Davidson

3 Apr 10 at 1:23 pm
Sinclair, you may have been right to err on the side of caution in adopting the “blunt axe approach” to censoring this discussion, but the understandable pressue you felt in doing that only serves to make my point. Once the heavy-handed threat of writs start flying around, fear and self-censorship set in, and the free flow of information suffers. Of course as daddy dave says, blogs should not be an arena in which anything goes, I’d never advocate that. But as a long-term lurker, I’ve always enjoyed the robust, yet generally sensible approach adopted at Catallaxy. It would be sad to see that go.

There is a middle ground, and a starting point ought to be the long-standing unwritten media rule … journos don’t sue journos, since both parties have access to a forum from which to respond; and particularly since journalism is meant to be dedicated to the free flow of ideas, information, argument and analysis. Similarly I’d argue that it ought be part of the creed of the blogoshpere that blogs don’t sue blogs (unless exceptional circumstances require it – that is to say, the nuclear option is there as a deterrent to ensure some semblance of fair play).

Since to my knowledge this is the first instance of a blog suing a blog in Australia, over what seems to me to be a trivial matter, then the blogosphere would do itself and free speech a huge favour by rising up and saying: “Hell no, this is not on!” I have made that argument here first because of my fondness for Catallaxy’s robust approach, and because it styles itself as “Australia’s leading libertarian …. blog”. I will also make it elsewhere.

And it should be clear, in doing this I’m not takng sides in the Blair v Crikey matter: I simply say, let them argue it out in the public domain and let readers make up their own minds. From blog to blog across the land, let freedom ring!

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 1:42 pm
And like you Sinclair I had no idea this was happening until I saw an article in the Sydney Morning Herald afew days back. I have no knowledge of the background behind it, apart from what I’ve picked up from a couple of other blogs, and I make no judgement about the issues, other than to say: this is not right.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/bloggers-weird-decision-to-sue-20100331-rexk.html

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 1:47 pm
journos don’t sue journos
.
That assumes good faith all round. Blair might have once thought the same thing, but obviously he sees things differently now. Most journos don’t have other journos writing almost exclusively about them with hostile intent.
.
Since to my knowledge this is the first instance of a blog suing a blog in Australia, over what seems to me to be a trivial matter
.
Is it trivial? That’s for the court to decide, not us.
.
I have made that argument here first because of my fondness for Catallaxy’s robust approach, and because it styles itself as “Australia’s leading libertarian …. blog”. I will also make it elsewhere.
.
Sounds like you are on a crusade. I simply don’t believe you when you say you have no personal interest in the matter. You just admitted you are on a mission to visit many blogs and stir up antipathy towards this particular legal case.

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 2:25 pm
“Sounds like you are on a crusade. I simply don’t believe you when you say you have no personal interest in the matter. You just admitted you are on a mission to visit many blogs and stir up antipathy towards this particular legal case.”

You are both right and wrong all at once, daddy. Yes, I am on a crusade, yes I do want to stir up antipathy towards this particular case … but no, I don’t have a personal interest in the matter so far as the parties are concerned. They are both well able to argue their case in the court of public opinion. Legal action is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and has a deadening effect on open discussion everywhere, something Sinclair has had first hand experience of here.

This ain’t right.

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 2:30 pm
. Legal action is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut
.
Again, that’s your judgement. But you’re mistaken.
It’s not a nut, Dirty Digger. Pure Poison, and related sites, have been engaged in a protracted online campaign against Blair for years. Either you know all the history and are so hopelessly partisan you can’t see the forest for the nuts, or you’re a naif wandering around in a daze, commenting on things that you don’t understand.

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 2:46 pm
Since you don’t want to disclose why this topic is so close you your heart Dirty Digger, I’d remind you that “intellectual dishonesty is pure poison.” Something you might want to keep in mind. Now run along, you random, impartial observer of blogs.

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 2:49 pm
I tend to agree with TDD. The blogoshpere will not be the same again… But then, we can’t do much about it, can we? Even if all blogs are against the ‘nuclear option’, how does it help?

Boris

3 Apr 10 at 2:57 pm
But who’s doing the whining? Aren’t these dedicated anti-Blair/Bolt websites run by gun-totin’ tough guys? Blair hits back and they suddenly cry civility. And, oddly, Labor-sympathising blogs in this country aren’t exactly going after Conroy, are they? Another double standard.

As for Catallaxy, the very name of of a certain leftist blogger has been filtered here for a year of more to ensure he doesn’t threaten legal action against its owners.

C.L.

3 Apr 10 at 3:05 pm
One of the good things about the blogosphere is that anybody can get online and share their opinion. That’s now under threat, as it’s all too easy for wealthy media outlets (like News Ltd) to make legal threats to shut down part-time or amateur bloggers.

It’s not a nut, Dirty Digger. Pure Poison, and related sites, have been engaged in a protracted online campaign against Blair for years.

One could just as easily say that Blair has been engaged in a years-long campaign against Margo Kingston, Ant Loewenstein, Lefty Kim from LP, et al. Unlike Timmeh, Pure Poison and related blogs tended to play the issue, not the man.

THR

3 Apr 10 at 3:07 pm
daddy, I don’t understand your antipathy. I have disclosed why this issue is so “close to my heart” – I’m a citizen in a free-ish country concerned to defend those freedoms. Yes, I’m aware of the history between the parties involved, but so … they both have platforms from which to continue that feud in the court of public opinion. Yes one party has campaigned against the other … although both have given as good as they’ve got from my reading of it, and both have a history of campaigning against others.

You miss the point. I choose deliberately to remain impartial to all of that because frankly, it is beside the more significant point. Which is, the impact resorting to litigation will surely have, has had here already, on the blogosphere and freedom of speech.

I notice that Catallaxy and many of its commenters are no fans of Conroy’s proposed internet filter (damn right too!), so why not similarly oppose a litigation filter which will censor discussion just as surely? In fact, in a more direct and immediate way so far as Catallaxy is concerned.

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 3:09 pm
Blair hits back and they suddenly cry civility.

Rubbish, CL. He hasn’t ‘hit back’, rather, the glass jawed girly-man has called in the News Ltd legal team.

And, oddly, Labor-sympathising blogs in this country aren’t exactly going after Conroy, are they? Another double standard.

This defies belief. Practically every leftist blog in the country has denounced Conroy, in most cases, repeatedly. In any case, these ridiculous attempts to change the subject will not and can not mitigate the sniveling nature of the above girly-man.

THR

3 Apr 10 at 3:10 pm
One of the good things about the blogosphere is that anybody can get online and share their opinion. That’s now under threat…

From Professor Kwiggin.

C.L.

3 Apr 10 at 3:10 pm
One of the good things about the blogosphere is that anybody can get online and share their opinion. That’s now under threat, as it’s all too easy for wealthy media outlets (like News Ltd) to make legal threats to shut down part-time or amateur bloggers.

That’s very true. Blogging has done great things to advance political knowledge and awareness of the general population and make available information that would have been too difficult or expensive to get, since I don’t know when,….the widespread adoption of television? Not to mention what it’s done in terms of keeping politicians honest.

Michael Sutcliffe

3 Apr 10 at 3:11 pm
And Boris, I’m not sure exactly what can be done, nor exactly how it will help. But, if you don’t fight, you lose, and you haven’t lost until you give up.

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 3:13 pm
I agree, Michael.

Try arguing a vigorous case over at Larvatus Prodeo – a website with a blacklist longer than the title of Mark Bahnisch’s doctoral thesis.

C.L.

3 Apr 10 at 3:14 pm
THR raises a point I’d not considered with his reference to the fact that the litigant here is backed by the world’s largest media company. Do we want to see a situation where bloggers linked to mainstream media outlets dominate because they have deep pockets, while the small time amateurs have to play by stricter rules because they can neither fight back nor defend themselves for fear of losing in court, perhaps on a techincality, only to be hit with a massive legal bill. That would mean a return to the bad old pre-net days when the MSM had it all their own way.

This is wrong on so many levels, and it is an important moment for the blogosphere here. At the very least this needs to be watched, thought about and discussed. At least.

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 3:28 pm
THR raises a point I’d not considered with his reference to the fact that the litigant here is backed by the world’s largest media company.
.
I was wondering how long till Teh Evil Corporation would be mentioned.
,
Which is, the impact resorting to litigation will surely have, has had here already, on the blogosphere and freedom of speech.
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It will have zero impact on the blogosphere, or on freedom of speech. Litigation laws have been around for ages.
This is the very definition of “Concern Trolling.” Dirty Digger, you’re clearly a left-wing guy attempting to mount a right-wing argument to garner sympathy, but it rings hollow.
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We’re talking about a current legal case. You’re trying to put a moral dimension on it (freedom of speech, intimidation, blah blah blah), but there’s only one moral dimension I can see here: all citizens have right of access to the courts to seek redress.
,
THR’s argument seems to be (to summarise) “I don’t like Blair and he deserves whatever he gets, the law be damned.”
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Dirty Digger’s argument seems to be: “Someone is suing someone else for defamation! What an infringement on free speech!”

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 7:16 pm
Hmmm…let’s see, News Corp or the Pure Poison kerb crawlers? Nah, too easy.

Peter Patton

3 Apr 10 at 7:31 pm
Perhaps skepticlawyer could give us her take on the issues, legal or otherwise.

We wrote about this way back when it was first mooted, providing a free guide to defamation law. In sum, no we don’t like the law as it stands, but standing athwart litigation and yelling ‘stop’ at it is not terribly useful either. More here:

http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/01/defamation-for-dummies/

skepticlawyer

3 Apr 10 at 8:12 pm
THR’s argument seems to be (to summarise) “I don’t like Blair and he deserves whatever he gets, the law be damned.”

I have no comment to make on the legal aspects of the case, since firstly, I’m not a lawyer, and secondly, the matter is yet to be dealt with. My point was rather than Blair is a glass-jawed hypocrite, who is spinelessly hiding behind the skirts of the judiciary in an attempt to covr his foibles.

In any case, my final point on this topic is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

THR

3 Apr 10 at 9:01 pm
Thanks sceptic, for a thorough canvassing of the legal issues. Which still leaves the practical and ethical concerns. According to daddy there will be zero impact, which seems to overlook the fact that Sinclair immediately did some quick housecleaning to address his concerns about Catallaxy’s possible legal exposure.

And yes, citizens have always had access to the courts for redress, but that has 1) always favoured those with deep pockets and access to the best lawyers; 2) and has often come at a cost to free speech (this being the reason that journalists and media outlets have long campaigned for less draconian defamation laws. In any event, we are not talking here about a citizen seeking redress, we are talking about a blogger, one with the backing, reach and clout of a big media company behind them, who already has their own platform from which to rebut accusations, expose malice or ulterior motives and to respond in kind. No legal redress needed – leave that to the powerless in cases of real need.

In a practical sense, this case could mean that powerful blogs will hector, bully, attack and criticise others, while smaller blogs (even if they are targets themselves), are likely to feel intimidated to respond. This case is likely to be an ugly precedent and to have a deadening impact on free speech.

In the case of daddy – who has introduced this whole left versus right element – it seems that because he is sympathetic to the politics of the litigant, he is prepared to overlook the wider implications and principles involved. May I remind you daddy of Larry Flynt said after having been sued by the Rev Jerry Falwell: “if they’ll protect a scumbag like me, they’ll protect all of you”.

And of what the US Supreme Court said in agreeing to hear the case: “The freedom to speak one’s mind is not only an aspect of individual liberty – and thus a good unto itself – but also is essential to the common quest for truth and the vitality of society as a whole.”

In short daddy, just because you see this matter is politically partisan terms, don’t project that tawdry take onto the actions of others. It may not fit with your world view, but it is nonetheless true that some people are able to overlook such comparatively trivial motivations for the sake for important principles, up to and including taking up the cause of a “scumbag”.

And I notice that sceptic paraphraces William F Buckley’s famous phrase in order to argue against doing or saying anything. May I remind you sceptic that when Buckley uttered that phrase, the cause of the right seemed pretty hopeless, even more so through the ’60s and ’70s. That did not deter him, and ultimately he and his ilk were able to have great social and political impact, merely by what they had to say. That is, by yelling “stop” in endless ways.

Trouble here seems to be that not even a robust libertarian blog is prepared to say “stop” to a blogger prepared to litigate when rational argument would more than adequately deal with the matter at hand. Handling it that way would enhance, by example, the power of freedom of speech, not diminish it as litigation will.

The Dirty Digger

3 Apr 10 at 9:38 pm
I am now going to paraphrase THR (and no doubt reveal one reason why Sinclair erred on the side of caution in his deletions): it would not be appropriate for me to make comments on this case (or the parties), since I am a lawyer and the matter is yet to be dealt with.

skepticlawyer

3 Apr 10 at 10:35 pm
In short daddy, just because you see this matter is politically partisan terms, don’t project that tawdry take onto the actions of others.
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I don’t see it that way. I see it as a citizen exercising his right to redress through the civil courts. The merit of the case will be decided there.
Period.
There is no moral dimension to this and it has nothing to do with free speech. And stop quoting conservatives and libertarians at us. Liberty includes free speech and access to the courts.

daddy dave

3 Apr 10 at 10:39 pm

Catallaxy Files

Open Forum March 27, 2010

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