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	<title>Comments on: My Mises Presentation</title>
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	<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/</link>
	<description>Australia&#039;s leading libertarian and centre-right blog</description>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say Taya)</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40797</link>
		<dc:creator>TerjeP (say Taya)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 17:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40797</guid>
		<description>If recessions are caused by too much production in one area relative to another then it stands to reason that those producers suffering the most pain are going to be very open to the idea that their pain is caused by a lack of demand, because in fact it is. However every business has at some time or another suffered this pain and it is part of what keeps producers focused on what people actually want. The most that a government can do is dampen some of the social consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If recessions are caused by too much production in one area relative to another then it stands to reason that those producers suffering the most pain are going to be very open to the idea that their pain is caused by a lack of demand, because in fact it is. However every business has at some time or another suffered this pain and it is part of what keeps producers focused on what people actually want. The most that a government can do is dampen some of the social consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40630</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 06:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40630</guid>
		<description>WFC,
I am not an economist either, but I think I can help. The classical theory of recessions essentially states that recessions are not due to demand deficiencies, but because supply has become disconnected from demand - in other words what is being supplied is different (but no greater than) what is being demanded.
Under this theory, all that demand stimulus does is to both perpetuate the disconnection between the demand and supply (i.e. store up trouble for later) and to crowd out genuine supply changes. In simple terms it messes up the pricing signals that direct both demand and supply.
Perhaps an omniscient government &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; redirect the pricing signals more quickly and efficiently than the market could through demand management if it were able to know exactly how to move it (both in terms of direction and amount), do it early enough and strictly limit it to the correct amounts.
In practice, though, the government is the same as any other market participant - logically precluded from having this information (like JC with GS above) and so cannot act in that way. Hayek showed that (IMHO) in a conclusive way. All that is likely to happen is that the government will act in a politically expedient way to try to pick winners - and borrow to do so. This will just make the recession worse and longer lasting than it would otherwise have been.
If any of the economists here feel like correcting me I would be interested in hearing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WFC,<br />
I am not an economist either, but I think I can help. The classical theory of recessions essentially states that recessions are not due to demand deficiencies, but because supply has become disconnected from demand &#8211; in other words what is being supplied is different (but no greater than) what is being demanded.<br />
Under this theory, all that demand stimulus does is to both perpetuate the disconnection between the demand and supply (i.e. store up trouble for later) and to crowd out genuine supply changes. In simple terms it messes up the pricing signals that direct both demand and supply.<br />
Perhaps an omniscient government <em>could</em> redirect the pricing signals more quickly and efficiently than the market could through demand management if it were able to know exactly how to move it (both in terms of direction and amount), do it early enough and strictly limit it to the correct amounts.<br />
In practice, though, the government is the same as any other market participant &#8211; logically precluded from having this information (like JC with GS above) and so cannot act in that way. Hayek showed that (IMHO) in a conclusive way. All that is likely to happen is that the government will act in a politically expedient way to try to pick winners &#8211; and borrow to do so. This will just make the recession worse and longer lasting than it would otherwise have been.<br />
If any of the economists here feel like correcting me I would be interested in hearing it.</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40623</link>
		<dc:creator>TerjeP (say tay-a)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 05:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40623</guid>
		<description>A great presentation by Steve Kates. Thanks for sharing it. 

Australia had a currency tied to the british pound. In 1925 the british pound returned to the gold standard having left it in WWI. The gold price at which they returned was at the pre war level, much below the prevailing rate. This was highly deflationary. Australia leaving adjusting the fix price to the british pound was a reaction to this deflation. And it was a quite rational response. I don&#039;t discount the merits of cutting public spending but I think Australias monetary adjustment was also necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great presentation by Steve Kates. Thanks for sharing it. </p>
<p>Australia had a currency tied to the british pound. In 1925 the british pound returned to the gold standard having left it in WWI. The gold price at which they returned was at the pre war level, much below the prevailing rate. This was highly deflationary. Australia leaving adjusting the fix price to the british pound was a reaction to this deflation. And it was a quite rational response. I don&#8217;t discount the merits of cutting public spending but I think Australias monetary adjustment was also necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Habler</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40602</link>
		<dc:creator>Habler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 03:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40602</guid>
		<description>&quot;As a non economist may I ask when a recession hits are there then no methods that can be used to stimulate the economy to come out of recession quicker without causing further harm? Must we simply ride it out after taking steps which may in the short term increase the severity of a recession eg by increasing unemployment?&quot;

There are very many things you can do. But you better ask for the economist by name or he&#039;ll evade the question.  We have an economy in disrepair. With some areas facing overinvestment and others underinvestment. Supposing we were a nation of small businesses, just to make this clearer. People will have invested in all sorts of things that are not justified by the real capital resources available and the market demand. 

Beehives, chicken coups, Kiwifruit orchids. Some of these will have to be sold and more investments made to bring them to positive cash flow in much their current form. Other investments of this sort will need to be transformed to more viable FORMS of business.

So the failed Kiwifruit place gets bought by the neighbouring winery, but it takes more resources to transform a failed investment unto a winning project.

The goal would be to make all investments cash flow positive. But to bring forth the resources for this transformation you need government spending cuts, and mass-sackings as well in the overblown financial sector.

Sound monetary policy involves more cash and less ponzi-money. Should overall monetary expansion be too high you will justify bad investments. Should it be too low you will wipe out the good investments along with the bad. But the resources to fix matters up have to come from massive spending cuts and some well-chosen tax cuts. 

You will see that there is no rightful way to avoid pain. You can avoid monetary implosion but not pain, Since it must be understood that the damage was done by the prior policy, and not by the onset of the recession. But if the pain is borne by the taxeaters and the bankers, and some proportion of businesses, then the rest of us can be back to work quick-smart. Particularly if we could all be persuaded to take an 18 month pay cut, or something of this nature. 

People think that this is contentious stuff. But its not. Those that don&#039;t understand this are ignorant or lying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As a non economist may I ask when a recession hits are there then no methods that can be used to stimulate the economy to come out of recession quicker without causing further harm? Must we simply ride it out after taking steps which may in the short term increase the severity of a recession eg by increasing unemployment?&#8221;</p>
<p>There are very many things you can do. But you better ask for the economist by name or he&#8217;ll evade the question.  We have an economy in disrepair. With some areas facing overinvestment and others underinvestment. Supposing we were a nation of small businesses, just to make this clearer. People will have invested in all sorts of things that are not justified by the real capital resources available and the market demand. </p>
<p>Beehives, chicken coups, Kiwifruit orchids. Some of these will have to be sold and more investments made to bring them to positive cash flow in much their current form. Other investments of this sort will need to be transformed to more viable FORMS of business.</p>
<p>So the failed Kiwifruit place gets bought by the neighbouring winery, but it takes more resources to transform a failed investment unto a winning project.</p>
<p>The goal would be to make all investments cash flow positive. But to bring forth the resources for this transformation you need government spending cuts, and mass-sackings as well in the overblown financial sector.</p>
<p>Sound monetary policy involves more cash and less ponzi-money. Should overall monetary expansion be too high you will justify bad investments. Should it be too low you will wipe out the good investments along with the bad. But the resources to fix matters up have to come from massive spending cuts and some well-chosen tax cuts. </p>
<p>You will see that there is no rightful way to avoid pain. You can avoid monetary implosion but not pain, Since it must be understood that the damage was done by the prior policy, and not by the onset of the recession. But if the pain is borne by the taxeaters and the bankers, and some proportion of businesses, then the rest of us can be back to work quick-smart. Particularly if we could all be persuaded to take an 18 month pay cut, or something of this nature. </p>
<p>People think that this is contentious stuff. But its not. Those that don&#8217;t understand this are ignorant or lying.</p>
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		<title>By: Habler</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40597</link>
		<dc:creator>Habler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 03:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40597</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve posted 1 comment twice rather than both comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve posted 1 comment twice rather than both comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40580</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 02:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40580</guid>
		<description>Graeme Bird is trying to post a comment. Graeme is permanently banned from catallaxy, but here is the comment nonetheless.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Great comments by some people here, but this is a very important youtube. Everyone should watch it many times and make sure they resolve all outstanding issues. Don’t just go on faith. There is very few more important issues around. Note how the lecture contains a great bibliography. Even the supportive comments tend to be made by people who only understand this subject about 40% of the way through. 

“The 1930s proved those pre-Keynesians wrong. Letting an economy in deep financial crisis sink is the road to hell.”

You cannot get more ahistorical then this. With a fiat currency there is never any reason to let the money supply collapse in any case. 

The main reason that Keynesianism took hold when it did is simply that the size of government had grown to a certain critical size after World War I. Also the idealistic socialists had just become disillusioned with fascism because the Germans were such a distasteful bunch. They had earlier become disillusioned with communism but that turned out to be a temporary thing. 

Though Kates doesn’t say this, there is some problem with letting the money supply collapse, but this is more to do with the compounding effect it tends to have on already overpowering debt levels than anything else. This is often neglected even by sound economists, who tend to think that the only problem is downward stickiness in prices and wages. 

Of course bankruptcy is the quickest way to clear these debts.

Great comments by some people here, but this is a very important youtube. Everyone should watch it many times and make sure they resolve all outstanding issues. Don&#039;t just go on faith. There is very few more important issues around.  Note how the lecture contains a great bibliography. Even the supportive comments tend to be made by people who only understand this subject about 40% of the way through. 

&quot;The 1930s proved those pre-Keynesians wrong. Letting an economy in deep financial crisis sink is the road to hell.&quot;

You cannot get more ahistorical then this. With a fiat currency there is never any reason to let the money supply collapse in any case. 

The main reason that Keynesianism took hold when it did is simply that the size of government had grown to a certain critical size after World War I. Also the idealistic socialists had just become disillusioned with fascism because the Germans were such a distasteful bunch. They had earlier become disillusioned with communism but that turned out to be a temporary thing. 

Though Kates doesn&#039;t say this, there is some problem with letting the money supply collapse, but this is more to do with the compounding effect it tends to have on already overpowering debt levels than anything else. This is often neglected even by sound economists, who tend to think that the only problem is downward stickiness in prices and wages. 

Of course bankruptcy is the quickest way to clear these debts. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graeme Bird is trying to post a comment. Graeme is permanently banned from catallaxy, but here is the comment nonetheless.</p>
<blockquote><p>Great comments by some people here, but this is a very important youtube. Everyone should watch it many times and make sure they resolve all outstanding issues. Don’t just go on faith. There is very few more important issues around. Note how the lecture contains a great bibliography. Even the supportive comments tend to be made by people who only understand this subject about 40% of the way through. </p>
<p>“The 1930s proved those pre-Keynesians wrong. Letting an economy in deep financial crisis sink is the road to hell.”</p>
<p>You cannot get more ahistorical then this. With a fiat currency there is never any reason to let the money supply collapse in any case. </p>
<p>The main reason that Keynesianism took hold when it did is simply that the size of government had grown to a certain critical size after World War I. Also the idealistic socialists had just become disillusioned with fascism because the Germans were such a distasteful bunch. They had earlier become disillusioned with communism but that turned out to be a temporary thing. </p>
<p>Though Kates doesn’t say this, there is some problem with letting the money supply collapse, but this is more to do with the compounding effect it tends to have on already overpowering debt levels than anything else. This is often neglected even by sound economists, who tend to think that the only problem is downward stickiness in prices and wages. </p>
<p>Of course bankruptcy is the quickest way to clear these debts.</p>
<p>Great comments by some people here, but this is a very important youtube. Everyone should watch it many times and make sure they resolve all outstanding issues. Don&#8217;t just go on faith. There is very few more important issues around.  Note how the lecture contains a great bibliography. Even the supportive comments tend to be made by people who only understand this subject about 40% of the way through. </p>
<p>&#8220;The 1930s proved those pre-Keynesians wrong. Letting an economy in deep financial crisis sink is the road to hell.&#8221;</p>
<p>You cannot get more ahistorical then this. With a fiat currency there is never any reason to let the money supply collapse in any case. </p>
<p>The main reason that Keynesianism took hold when it did is simply that the size of government had grown to a certain critical size after World War I. Also the idealistic socialists had just become disillusioned with fascism because the Germans were such a distasteful bunch. They had earlier become disillusioned with communism but that turned out to be a temporary thing. </p>
<p>Though Kates doesn&#8217;t say this, there is some problem with letting the money supply collapse, but this is more to do with the compounding effect it tends to have on already overpowering debt levels than anything else. This is often neglected even by sound economists, who tend to think that the only problem is downward stickiness in prices and wages. </p>
<p>Of course bankruptcy is the quickest way to clear these debts. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40477</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 13:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40477</guid>
		<description>The thing that gets me about this charge against Goldsack is that the other side of the bet knew the securities were sythetics which by defintion means someone has to be short on the other side.

These idiots kinew ecactly what this crap was, what were the componets and now they&#039;re complaining?
WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that gets me about this charge against Goldsack is that the other side of the bet knew the securities were sythetics which by defintion means someone has to be short on the other side.</p>
<p>These idiots kinew ecactly what this crap was, what were the componets and now they&#8217;re complaining?<br />
WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: sdfc</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40474</link>
		<dc:creator>sdfc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 13:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40474</guid>
		<description>Hi JC, I&#039;m done packing for today.  The big move is tomorrow.  My missus is packing up her office but that&#039;s her problem so I thought I&#039;d jump on.

I understand that this whole episode, especially the Senate subcommittee hearing probably hasn&#039;t done their reputation any good but can&#039;t see how any charges would stick.

What judge is going to understand synthetic CDO&#039;s anyway.

I&#039;m not on top of the ins and outs, all I really know is what I&#039;ve ready on Reuters, but someone at work was saying Golman&#039;s sold the stuff to banks.  If that&#039;s the case then stiff shit.  Anyone with half a brain should have known the US housing market was headed for trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi JC, I&#8217;m done packing for today.  The big move is tomorrow.  My missus is packing up her office but that&#8217;s her problem so I thought I&#8217;d jump on.</p>
<p>I understand that this whole episode, especially the Senate subcommittee hearing probably hasn&#8217;t done their reputation any good but can&#8217;t see how any charges would stick.</p>
<p>What judge is going to understand synthetic CDO&#8217;s anyway.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not on top of the ins and outs, all I really know is what I&#8217;ve ready on Reuters, but someone at work was saying Golman&#8217;s sold the stuff to banks.  If that&#8217;s the case then stiff shit.  Anyone with half a brain should have known the US housing market was headed for trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: WFC</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40396</link>
		<dc:creator>WFC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 06:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40396</guid>
		<description>As a non economist may I ask when a recession hits are there then no methods that can be used to stimulate the economy to come out of recession quicker without causing further harm? Must we simply ride it out after taking steps which may in the short term increase the severity of a recession eg by increasing unemployment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a non economist may I ask when a recession hits are there then no methods that can be used to stimulate the economy to come out of recession quicker without causing further harm? Must we simply ride it out after taking steps which may in the short term increase the severity of a recession eg by increasing unemployment?</p>
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		<title>By: ken n</title>
		<link>http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/04/30/my-mises-presentation/comment-page-1/#comment-40301</link>
		<dc:creator>ken n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 01:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=9256#comment-40301</guid>
		<description>Where&#039;s Homer?
I thought he had an alarm over his bed that woke him up whenever anyone said &quot;Keynes&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where&#8217;s Homer?<br />
I thought he had an alarm over his bed that woke him up whenever anyone said &#8220;Keynes&#8221;.</p>
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