I didn’t want the month of August to go by without mentioning this. The year 410 has always been electric to me, as has the name Alaric the Gaul although I can’t say I ever knew the specific date.
As has been reported, but not very widely, August 24 was the 1,600th anniversary of one of the turning points of European history – the first sack of Imperial Rome by an army of Visigoths, northern European barbarian tribesmen, led by a general called Alaric.
I continuously find that significant dates go by without much attention. The 65th anniversary of the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima went by at the start of the month without much notice as well.
On Alaric and the sack of Rome, the BBC has a full report.
Steve,
Maybe the first sack of Rome is a specialist date, but I have to agree that the Hiroshima bombing dropping out of relevance is a sad trend.
It seems to me that the fall of the Berlin Wall was the death of widespread historical interest and relevance.
They who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Myrddin Seren
29 Aug 10 at 10:46 am
A dark day in history
Samuel J
29 Aug 10 at 11:09 am
Rome was cactus long before 410. This idea that Rome “fell” in 410 is nonsense.
Peter Patton
29 Aug 10 at 11:16 am
They who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
“Short Memories … ”
There, I did it, I quoted Garrett. A first for Catallaxy.
John H.
29 Aug 10 at 12:12 pm
They who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them
The problem is figuring out what the lesson was.
To take the case in point, why did Rome fall? There seem to be lots of interesting theories but no consensus. Inflation, stagnation, cost of maintaining a large mercenary army, lead in the water, and so on.
daddy dave
29 Aug 10 at 12:18 pm
Daddy Dave, Why did Rome fall? absent from most of the studies of this and the collapse of other civilisations is the role of climate.
One example – the LIA is well known in Europe but not well known is the documented records of the Korean Choson Dynasty for the same period that described climate catastrophes involving meteorites and all sorts of extra-terrestrial inputs. It’s almost as if the Earth passed through a meteorite swarm for a period of time that then caused havoc on Earth.
One of the irritations with reconciling history is the tendency for the leftists, who dominate this discipline, to rewrite it, ignoring some obvious observed facts. (Windschuttle’s efforts in correcting Aboriginal history in Australia is a case in point).
Mike Bailley’s work on dendro and his accounts of a climate catastrophe around 400 AD etc (dating is very loose) suggests Rome collapsed from a global climate catastrophe.
Same thing happened circa 1500 CE when the Ming Dynasty collapsed in the Pacific arena.
It’s an area of exegis that needs far more imput than what its getting now.
Louis Hissink
29 Aug 10 at 12:35 pm
This idea that Rome “fell” in 410 is nonsense.
The idea it fell is nonsense. It’s had it’s good times and it’s bad times too. But it’s still got its arse.
I think that the UN should force France to issue an apology to the Italians. Why is a Visigoth also a Gaul?
Adrien
29 Aug 10 at 1:01 pm
One example – the LIA is well known in Europe but not well known is the documented records of the Korean Choson Dynasty for the same period that described climate catastrophes involving meteorites and all sorts of extra-terrestrial inputs.
Great idea. A book about how aliens are responsible.
It’d sell.
Adrien
29 Aug 10 at 1:02 pm
JohnH
Please refer to Garrett by his correct name in future.
“Lurch”
JC
29 Aug 10 at 1:05 pm
Alaric was a Goth not a Gaul.
Peter Whiteford
29 Aug 10 at 1:54 pm
It’s almost as if the Earth passed through a meteorite swarm for a period of time that then caused havoc on Earth.
Unfortunately Louis, that or any other climate phenomenon is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain the fall of Rome. Besides that, a new theory that ‘climate change’ brought down Rome seems, well, suspiciously trendy.
daddy dave
29 Aug 10 at 1:58 pm
Hirioshima (and Nagasaki) anniversary was all over the news.
Boris
29 Aug 10 at 2:32 pm
Beat me to it Peter.
Someone needs to bone up on their Asterix.
FDB
29 Aug 10 at 2:34 pm
“Alaric was a Goth not a Gaul.”
How on earth did a bunch of moody teenagers, dressed in black from head to foot, manage to knock over Rome?
boy on a bike
29 Aug 10 at 3:26 pm
What next? London was razed by e-ing ravers?
Peter Patton
29 Aug 10 at 3:28 pm
All that separates us from the living standards of the poorest Africans are a couple of hundred years of capitalism induced productivity gains.
The number of people subject to the incentives that created these productivity gains were for the vast bulk of the period far less than now. Most inventions were the product of the UK, US France and Germany. These countries had much smaller populations in the past. Furthermore most of these much smaller populations were also effectively “outside” the capitalist incentive system – domestic servants, tenant farmers, housewives … etc with little knowledge or opportunity to create new productivity improving knowledge.
There are now vastly more people subject to some form of capitalist incentives in India, China, ASEAN, South America and Eastern Europe …etc. Thanks to the internet they are also far more likely to have access to the latest/best way of doing things. Again thanks to the net improvements they create will be dissipated through the global economy far faster than ever before.
Most productivity gains result from the tinkering of existing process or doing something new with old/existing product knowledge. There has been and is a massive and ongoing increase in the discrete items/knowledge/process that can be manipulated to create something new. The number of ways discrete “knowledge”, be it tangible or intangible, can be recombined grows hugely as the number of items increases i.e. if there were only 16 discrete items then there would be 16 × 15 × 14 × 13 … = 20,922,789,888,000 potentially productivity increasing combinations.
Therefore there are vastly more people operating under the incentives to make vastly more possible permutations and combinations of productivity increasing opportunities. Productivity and hence our standard of living will increase. This holds even if Europe and America “re-tribalise” or otherwise stop being an initiator of productivity gains.
Europeans and Americans will still benefit from the productivity gains developed elsewhere in the world as after a lag they will be implemented in Europe and America. Just as over the last 50 years US initiated productivity gains have been copied in Europe, effectively “yanking up” their productivity levels. This also makes a farce of the literature comparing GDP per head between the US and Europe. Of course the latter will increase in line with initiatives generated or spread by the former. This can not be used to argue that the US should adopt European pseudo-socialist structures. Someone has to be the initiator of new ways of doing old things or old ways of doing new things. People operating under capitalist incentives with access to tangible or intangible “knowledge” are the key.
Unfortunately the Productivity Commission in focusing on academia rather than the market when examining productivity in Australia missed the point. As did its cop out on climate change. I guess it was unrealistic to expect that bit of government to be immune to government failure – particularly given developments in Treasury.
Robert Carruthers
30 Aug 10 at 12:46 pm