Censorship at the Oz?

Glenn Milne has an op-ed in The Australian talking about Julia Gillard’s involvement in a fraud with a fraudster many years ago. I think it was very clear from the article that she herself had also been a victim of the conman. Yet it seems the Australian has backed away from the story.

It’s very hard to get excited about this story that has been appearing in dribs and drabs over the past few days. Everyone has been at pains to say she didn’t know about the fraud and was only involved to the extent that she acted under instructions in her capacity as a lawyer.

Update: The Australian has issued an apology.

THE AUSTRALIAN published today an opinion piece by Glenn Milne which includes assertions about the conduct of the Prime Minister.

The Australian acknowledges these assertions are untrue. The Australian also acknowledges no attempt was made by anyone employed by, or associated with, The Australian to contact the Prime Minister in relation to this matter.

The Australian unreservedly apologises to the Prime Minister and to its readers for the publication of these claims

Not a good look.
Update II: CL emails a better form of words so I’ve modified the post to better reflect what happened.

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247 Responses to Censorship at the Oz?

  1. Karl Kessel

    You can read the article here. It’s actually hard to see how it’s caused so much excitement.

    [Sorry Karl – have to break the link. I’m advised that republication constitutes defamation. Given that somebody has threatened the Australian it’s probably wise to be overly cautious. Sinc]

  2. Woolfe

    Links to the article are all over twitter for those who have not seen it.

  3. coz

    I think the paranoia levels are running pretty high in Gillardworld.

  4. johno

    I read the article before it got pulled and I agree with Karl that it is hard to see what all the fuss is about.

    That is has caused such a fuss suggests there is some truth to the deeper problems in the ALP and union movement alluded to in the article.

  5. I wonder if Michael Smith is confident of his legal advice.

  6. daddy dave

    The Australian is apologising for running an article about the Prime Minister’s personal dealings with a corrupt union official? This is nuts.

  7. Sinclair Davidson

    dd – I suspect there is a factual error in the article.

  8. JC

    I think it was very clear from the article that she herself had also been a victim of the conman.

    Two things

    1. how does anyone know she was a victim?

    2. If she was a victim of a con not much has changed since then… how does it go.. Full me once

  9. On a technical point – isn’t Bolt leaving up the extract with the new information which may well be the factual error in dispute (and we have good reason for believing it is, as we are told in the article that the lawyers did not let it be included in 2007) also re-publication?

    Does Bolt simply saying “by the way, I am not sure that that bit is really true” save him from being a re-publisher too?

  10. Sorry Karl – have to break the link. I’m advised that republication constitutes defamation.

    Sinc, that sounds more like the UK situation to me. Our law is entirely black letter and not really comparable. Since you closed comments about Thomson I’ve been wondering if you are up to speed on Australian defamation or assuming you are based on the UK or South Africa.

    [Several years ago my employer sent me on media training that included a segment on defamation and I had a refresher in 2008.

    This morning I received a text message from someone I trust saying that the post was sailing too close to the wind. Sinc]

  11. JC

    Does Bolt simply saying “by the way, I am not sure that that bit is really true” save him from being a re-publisher too?

    Dunno Steve, but I guess seeing he’s an AGW sceptic he’s also fair game according to you.

  12. Infidel Tiger

    I wonder if the words “Government advertising” were entioned to News Ltd today?

  13. Token

    Its nearly midday, got a meeting so I’ll miss the 2UE interview. I trust the information Mr Kernohan reveals will be repeated later.

  14. Gab

    Great, now we have to disinfect the place. Thanks heaps, Steve 😡

  15. C.L.

    Pure Poison – home of trusted, moderate journalism.

    Good source, Steve.

    You idiot.

  16. JC

    Well you did Steve and you also lied about it previously admitting anyone that doesn’t agree with AGW is fair game. Nice double standards.

  17. It’s a legal question pure and simple – maybe Bolt is legally “safe”, but I have my doubts. (It is different from reporting what the defamation was once a defamation action is started.)

    I would for one would not be upset if Bolt is sued over it, if he is trying to sleaze his way around defamation laws.

  18. daddy dave

    I wonder if the words “Government advertising” were entioned to News Ltd today

    Of course not. That would be corrupt.

  19. Gab

    Bolt owns you mentally, Steve.

  20. Well, the only reason you’re apparently entirely comfortable with the tactic, Gab, is because Gillard is the target.

  21. Gab

    And he owns you emotionally too, Steve.

  22. Sinclair Davidson

    Steve – you are in no position to label anyone a ‘sleaze’. Just not.

  23. JC

    I would for one would not be upset if Bolt is sued over it, if he is trying to sleaze his way around defamation laws.

    You mean like yourself Steve , peddling sex stories about Abbott before the election because- in your words- anyone and anything is far game if people don’t believe in AGW.

    I noticed you were too gutless to post the comment at your blog for obvious legal reasons perhaps, or because no one reads it?

  24. boy on a bike

    So maybe teh Evil Murdoch Kochopus is not as all powerful as the lefties would make out?

  25. JC

    Steve – you are in no position to label anyone a ‘sleaze’. Just not.

    Lol.

  26. JC

    I think highly of you too, Sinclair.

    Who gives a shit Steve?

  27. Tillman

    Has the pro-molestation Washington Post covered the story?

  28. JC – before the election, didn’t you once refer to a rumour a media mate of yours said they had about Gillard, but they weren’t sure if they should run with it?

  29. Tillman

    Stephen Mayne will have a field day with this.

  30. JC

    Yea I did.

    However it looked like it wasn’t true and said so. No hypocrisy there.

    Further, I’ve never said people that don’t agree with me are “fair game” like you have several times.

  31. Tillman

    Glenn Milne needs to change his migraine meds.

  32. JC

    Stephen Mayne will have a field day with this.

    He’s just a bitter, bitter man, that’s all. It will give him further license to advocate for stronger censorship along the lines he was doing on Q&A recently and destroy da Murdoch.

  33. JC

    Can someone explain what was actually so wrong with the Milne piece, as I don’t really get it. He never made any serious accusations that Duck Bum was involved in any corruption directly. In fact he was very specific about this.

    All he suggested was that her judgement shows some big fault lines.

  34. Tillman

    Apparently Milne reported that Julia was having a sexual relationship with a NASA scientist who was involved in the cover-up of the hollowing-out of one of the moons of Venus.

    Pretty damning stuff, if true.

  35. C.L.

    Has the pro-molestation Washington Post covered the story?

    For those not in the know, Tillman is referring to the Washington Post posting two columns by leading WaPo writers defending or expressing synmpathy for child rapist and leftist icon, Roman Polanski.

  36. Tillman

    This of course is Milne’s finest performance.

  37. C.L.

    I agree, JC. It isn’t defamatory to say where you think somebody used to live. Kevin Rudd used to live in a Morris Minor.

  38. JC

    This of course is Milne’s finest performance.

    Wasn’t Mayne a first rate wimp? Milne was obviously pissed and could have flattened but he turned chicken shit.

    What a wuss.

  39. JC

    oops.. and could have flattened him…

  40. He didn’t say “he thought”; he reported it as “the fact”.

  41. C.L.

    That was a good performance by Milne. The vision of Mayne cowering – terrified of inebriated chubster Glenn – was priceless.

  42. Gab

    This of course is Milne’s finest performance.

    Lemeguess: he’s been caught using his corporate credit card for intimate services?

  43. C.L.

    So what, Steve? I state here and now that Nicola Roxon used to live with Colonel Sanders. Sue me.

  44. Rafe

    It is good for Sinc to play safe, the issues at stake are too important to risk distractions of legal action. As Judith pointed out we are starting to get some public revelations about the underbelly of the trade union movement, things that have been common knowledge in some circles for decades. Responsible reporters have to keep digging and people in the Trade Union Party who care about the governance of the nation had better take notice and also speak up for a change.

  45. JC

    I state here and now that Nicola Roxon used to live with Colonel Sanders. S

    Really? Did she? Then it’s obvuous what happened to the fried chicken he used to take home every night then.

  46. Tillman

    Mayne’s a lover, not a fighter. What’s wrong with that?

    Although I do admit it’s unfortunate we missed the opportunity of seeing a dude with Marfan’s punch on with an angry, drunken dwarf on live TV.

    Mayne of course wins on reach but Milne’s lower centre of gravity and superior pain resistance might have given him the edge.

  47. You’re an idiot CL, and your interest in the care with which to report other people’s words is on a par with the Pope’s interest in Pokemon.

  48. Tillman

    It probably would have ended up like this.

  49. JC

    Mayne’s a lover, not a fighter. What’s wrong with that?

    Please. The two are not mutually exclusive. He’s first rate wimp. He could have decked live on TV but instead ran off the stage until security slowly walked up.

    Although I do admit it’s unfortunate we missed the opportunity of seeing a dude with Marfan’s punch on with an angry, drunken dwarf on live TV.

    Lol. That alone would have been worth a Walkley.

    Mayne of course wins on reach but Milne’s lower centre of gravity and superior pain resistance might have given him the edge.

    Bull. All it would have taken was a good punch to the side of Milne’s head and he would have been taken out on a stretcher.

    He wimped out and now he’s calling on the government to ban da Murdoch.

  50. C.L.

    Steve, are you still angry about being held accountable for your sickening “fair game” comment?

  51. jtfsoon

    Are Milne and lambert related?

  52. JC

    Of course he is, although i wouldn’t call it angry. Steve only gets upset and cries.

  53. I just dropped in to listen to Michael Smith on 2UE. Sounds like his lawyers have pulled him back and his planned interview and revelations of today are not happening.

  54. JC

    Could be, although Milne seems to have the genes that allow more hair in middle age. Shiny seems to have lost his in his teens.

  55. JC

    I just dropped in to listen to Michael Smith on 2UE. Sounds like his lawyers have pulled him back and his planned interview and revelations of today are not happening.

    Oh but they they. There’s something you need to keep in mind. Motivation.

    Smith wants this story real bad and the lawyers want a fee equally as bad. So the lawyer will be instructed to structure the story in a way that won’t get him in hot water.

    Be assured of one thing. There’s perhaps 1/2 dozen lawyers skipping lunch and by the end of the day a secretary will be sending out a fee notice with a few zeros.

  56. C.L.

    What a mess this government is.

    A complete, unsalvageable mess.

  57. papachango

    A complete, unsalvageable mess.

    Indeed. Even the Age is finding it hard stick up for Gillard. The best they could do on Sunday was an editorial that basically said, ‘yea but Abbott’s just as bad with his Relentless Negativity(tm)’

  58. Nic

    Interesting. I think Bolta said that Milne’s initial claims in 2007 had a lot of legal input from the Australian before the matter was reported. Surely they would be just as cautious now? I wonder what slipped through the net? Perhaps because they hadn’t actually asked Gillard for her rsponse?

  59. badm0f0

    Perhaps because they hadn’t actually asked Gillard for her rsponse?

    That seems to be a central element in the apology & withdrawal of the original article.

  60. RodClarke

    I Just bought the “hard copy” newspaper – its on pg 14.

    I dont understand why a fraudster would have a senior partner open bank accounts for them.

    Doesn’t make sense.

  61. papachango

    I wonder what slipped through the net?

    I think it was the bit that Milne said that the lawers told him not to publish in 2007 but that he revealed in this article. An assertied fact that Bolt thinks isn’t true. I’m assuming we can’t talk about it directly.

    It does seem strange that Milne would reveal it now, especially given that, whether true or not, it’s not particularly dammning of Gillard. There are lots of other proven facts in the public domain far worse.

  62. RodClarke

    Bolts story from Saturday has also been edited.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_tip_on_something_that_may_force_gillard_to_resign/

    (STATUTORY DECLARATION EXTRACTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED ON INSTRUCTION)

    Someone needs to track down this Bruce Wilson bloke.

  63. boy on a bike

    Maybe they should have simply reported what was said in the Victorian parliament in 1995.

  64. badm0f0

    Someone needs to track down this Bruce Wilson bloke

    Someone needs to edit your comments as you’re trying to make similar imputations as were made in the potentially defamatory material in question.

  65. papachango

    I dont understand why a fraudster would have a senior partner open bank accounts for them.

    I think he got her to set up a new legal entity, not just open a bank account.

  66. Tillman

    Whatever Julia’s lawyers said to News certainly freaked them out.

    The apology / retraction is on the front of dailytelegraph.com.au and heraldsun.com.au, which are of course completely separate newspapers from the Oz.

    Amazing that the offending lines stayed up on Bolt’s blog until so recently.

  67. boy on a bike

    I think he got her to set up a new legal entity, not just open a bank account.

    I wonder if the new legal entity, which had a very similar name to the original (and legit) legal entity had a different address? If so, wouldn’t you be just a tiny bit suspicious as to why the new entity was located somewhere else?

  68. papachango

    Whatever Julia’s lawyers said to News certainly freaked them out.

    They’re probably a little bit over cautious with all this talk of ‘media reviews’

    the new legal entity, which had a very similar name to the original (and legit) legal entity

    Oh that old trick. Like the (fictitious) admin officer for the London council – Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, who sets up a non-profit called the Regional Board of Karate Coaches. It would take about six months of intercepting rates cheques made out to ‘RBKC’ before you were discovered by which time you’d be in the Caribbean.

  69. Token

    I dont understand why a fraudster would have a senior partner open bank accounts for them.

    Doesn’t make sense.

    I agree RodClarke. Why would a lawyer made partner of Slater & Gordon be setting up bank accounts? That is the work for a junior (though a cynic might think a legal firm may charge at a higher rate if they can get away with it).

    The senior or partner is only called in to ensure the account meets rules for specific legal structures.

    Another question, who is stupid enough to think that a lawyer who has worked their way up to partner could be “young and naive”? If they were so naive, they would’ve been exposed in legal cases on their way up. How would a “young and naive” lawyer survive working on union briefs at Slater and Gordon?

    If I didn’t know them better, you’d think Gillard thinks the electorate is stupid.

  70. Rafe

    Whatever turns up regarding the actions of particular people, the core of the scandal is the legislation that is put in place by the Trade Union Party to benefit a small fraction of the population at the expense of everyone else. That, and the tactics that the small proportion can use to exploit everybody else.

  71. Token

    That’s ok Rafe, this scandal is growing on multiple fronts, JC’s cockroach theory is live and well.

    The next scandal in the queue has come. The master contractor on a large number of BER projects in NSW has gone bust – Project Kendall & Pearl Constructions.

    The effect is a large number of small builders & tradeys who are owed truck loads of money for work done on the BER project are going bankrupt.

  72. RodClarke

    Someone needs to edit your comments as you’re trying to make similar imputations as were made in the potentially defamatory material in question.

    BadMOFO I have tweeted the catallaxy file owners asking them to delete the post. I dont know how else to get in contact with them.

  73. daddy dave

    The article’s been deleted, the Australian has apologised, the Australian has declared the Milne article to be false, the documents have been removed from Bolt’s blog.

    The story’s over. Everyone has agreed to bury it.

  74. daddy dave

    BadMOFO I have tweeted the catallaxy file owners asking them to delete the post.

    Why? what you said wasn’t defamatory. Won’t happen though.

  75. RodClarke

    Why? what you said wasn’t defamatory. Won’t happen though.

    who knows – look at what Bolta’s been thru

  76. coz

    LADY MACBETH Out, damned spot! out, I say!–One: two: why,
    then, ’tis time to do’t.–Hell is murky!–Fie, my 40
    lord, fie! a soldier, and afeard? What need we
    fear who knows it, when none can call our power to
    account?–Yet who would have thought the old man
    to have had so much blood in him.

  77. coz

    ignore the ’40’ in that quote, i think it was a line number.

  78. JC

    The story’s over. Everyone has agreed to bury it.

    Not the Smith Story I bet. That has legs and will reappear in a different format. It has legs bigger than a giraffe.

  79. Nic

    Fie, now there’s a word that desrves a comeback. “Mr. Nic? This is Jasmine calling on behalf of Greenpeace” Fie foul strumpet, fie I say before i rent both my toe and my rheum upon ye.

  80. Sinclair Davidson

    Rod – check your email.

  81. C.L.

    Well, it beats me. I read the article when it was published and it didn;t say anything that wasn’t and isn’t already on the public record – except a minor detail about hearth and home. That could be right or wrong, factually, but hardly defamatory.

    Part of me thinks The Australian made a big deal of scrubbing it online as a reverse kind of advertisement of it. It was pulled so early today that sales and readership of the hard copy must have syrocketed.

  82. benson

    I saved a copy of the article before I hit the sack last night; I re-read it just then and I can’t see anything defamatory in it.

  83. C.L.

    Folks, I think The Oz is promoting the story.

  84. Nic

    Not only that CL, to show that they aren’t as ‘biased’ against Gillard as accused. Imagine if News had first raised the Thomson allegations?

  85. RodClarke

    Yeah I couldn’t see anything in it – but in the current environment its hard to know.

  86. DrBeauGan

    Thanks Gab for the most informative links. Will duckbum have to return the outfits to Town Modes, do you think?

    Thanks everbody for some great entertainment. Am chock full of popcorn.

  87. Bill

    For the sake of saving one of Australia’s finest governments, I fervently pray that this Wilson fella keeps his mouth shut.

  88. Gab

    I’m sure he won’t show his face anywhere, Bill, let alone speak up.

  89. JC

    Who are you praying to Bill?

  90. Bill

    I’m praying to Gaia of course.

    If Abbot and his reactionary, lickspittle running dog denialists get into office, life on earth is in peril.

  91. Tillman

    Is Gab suggesting Dr Beau is sando?

    Wasn’t he nominated for a swag of Walkleys the night the angry drunken dwarf shoved Australia’s most sued Marfan’s sufferer off the stage?

    Speaking of which, maybe Mayne can hook the angry dwarf up with a good defo lawyer.

  92. If the PM is unhappy with suggestions that she was shacked up with an unsavoury character in a house purchased with ill-gotten gains, she can clear the air by releasing her credit card statements, taxi statements, mobile phone bills, home phone bills and car log books that I’m sure will show that she was in fact sleeping most nights in her own house during the period in question.

    Is that too much to ask?

  93. JC

    Steve

    Did you think about placing a statute of limitations when you were peddling the lies about Abbot’s sex life too?

  94. As Crikey is suggesting – the scandal here is that Michael Smith and Andrew Bolt have been re-processing old news to try to make it into a new story to help their obvious desire to shove Gillard out of the PM’s chair.

  95. JC

    Steve;

    why you were peddling that dishoenst story about abbott, were you also hoping ti would catch on help your “obvious desire to shove Gillard Abbott out of the PM’s chair”.

  96. boab – this was 16 years ago.

    So what? The magical thing about everything being computerised these days is that we have these things called electronic records that can be recalled pretty easily. I’m sure you’ve heard of them. I had to ask my bank for some old bank statements recently – I had them within 10 minutes.

  97. JC

    oops…. when you were peddling…

  98. C.L.

    I guess Labor won’t go there on questions pertaining to finance, hearth and home again…

    Remember when Swan, Albanese and others mocked Tony Abbott for taking out a second mortgage – drawing conclusions from this about his economic management credentials?

    Here’s (the lately moralistic) Craig Emerson:

    It does suggest that Mr Abbott wants to lead Australia and run a trillion-dollar economy but there are some questions about his capacity to do so.

    There are some questions, are there Craig?

    Bring ’em on, champ.

  99. Gee, JC, you may be causing some readers of Bolt who may be here via his link to this post to think there was actually a juicy rumour about Abbott posted here sometime, when in fact there wasn’t.

  100. Gab

    LOL. Crikey – and Steve – suggest the REAL scandal is Bolt and Smith. Not illegal credit card usage, not diverting union members’ funds to the ALP, not the cover ups, not the threats against a female who spoke out against a union, and there’s so much more…

    No. According to Crickey and Steve, Bolt and Smith are the scandal.

    Really Steve, I do so hope you get a job in Gillard’s press office, please and soon.

  101. Gab – we’re talking the Smith and Bolt tactics of the last few days, which are not about the things you just listed at all, but all about revisiting a story that has been done many times already.

  102. JC

    Gab – we’re talking the Smith and Bolt tactics of the last few days, which are not about the things you just listed at all, but all about revisiting a story that has been done many times already.

    But is that similar to the story you were posting here about Abbot and getting all excited over?

  103. Infidel Tiger

    WHat’sn the satute of limitations in your mind, Steve?

    I’d imagine it’s 24hrs for a leftist and one or two millenia for a centre-right politician?

  104. boab – if the question is how many nights you were spending in a lover’s house 16 years ago compared to how many nights you were in your own – how many people do you honestly think could come up with the type of documents to prove that.

    Get real. (A challenge at this blog, I know.)

  105. Infidel Tiger

    I’m surprised Gillard was once rumoured to be a lesbian. There’s no shortage of men in her past.

  106. Gab

    Steve, all this started when Thomson answered Smith’s question on radio. No one had a gun to his head – or a shovel – to answer the question.

    but all about revisiting a story that has been done many times already.

    How many times before Steve? And why is that relevant given the investigations into the many aspects have not been completed and were almost shelved into obscurity. But then I guess that’s your preference, eh? No matter what it takes, just protect this abortion of a government, that’;s your motto Steve.

  107. Piett

    God damn you Steve, you are such a frakking tease. Just lay down this ‘rumour’ you have. Put it on the table for all to see.

    Sinc’s a wealthy man on a 6-figure income. He could afford to pay a defamation settlement just out of his monthly budget for whiskey and hookers.

    I want to know the ‘truth’ pertaining to this rumour, and no pecuniary consequences for you or Sinc should deter you from making it public!

  108. JC

    Steve:

    Would you have thought, at the time those same questions you’re denying now about DuckBum would have been been “fair game” if it were Abbott?

    The story about the Duck Bum is that as a partner she was opening bank accounts for the dude she was sleeping with or at least that is the account being given? Why? And why didn’t she ask any questions?

  109. Gab

    She didn’t ask questions, JC, because she was young and naive – at 35 years of age at the time and working for that very soft core outfit S&G – and because she was in love, your honour.

  110. LaRouchite

    “Is anyone at News monitoring Andrew Bolt’s Blog?”

    The Australian publishes a story by Glenn Milne, then removes it from their website, replacing it with this apology.

    Meanwhile, over at the Southbank Jester’s blog the assertions that The Australian has declared “untrue” are republished verbatim, covered by the tiniest of fig leaves. {No, I’m not going to link to the post. Rules on linking and defamation are murky, so I’ll play it safe}

    I’m sure that Bolt’s post will be edited soon enough to remove the allegedly defamatory material, but the bigger question remains, if Bolt didn’t think that Milne’s information was correct, why republish what he’d written in the first place?

    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2011/08/29/is-anyone-at-news-monitoring-andrew-bolts-blog/

  111. Sinclair Davidson

    Sinc’s a wealthy man on a 6-figure income.

    I give all my money to Mrs D.

  112. Let me summarise the recent exchange with Gab:

    Me – it’s disgraceful how Smith and Bolt have been re-visiting a long discredited and denied story from 16 years ago as if this was something new (even doing teaser bits for what was coming over 3 days)

    Gab: ha. The real scandal is Thomson.

    Me: I am talking about the 16 year story, Gab.

    Gab: Thomson started it and the investigations into it had not been completed.

    Me: I am talking about the 16 year old story, Gab,.

    Repeat.

  113. Sinclair Davidson

    LaRouchite – where are the weekend TV ratings? You’re getting slack.

  114. LaRouchite

    “Milne debacle: how a 16 year old story was spiked by The Oz”:

    Glenn Milne has egg all over his face after the re-hired columnist filed an error-filled op-ed reviving discredited allegations that Prime Minister Julia Gillard had somehow been an accomplice to her one-time partner Bruce Wilson’s alleged fraud.

    The piece rehashed 16-year-old claims?—?vociferously denied by the Prime Minister whenever they are dredged up?—?suggesting Gillard had lived in a house with Wilson bought using illegal cash.

    Milne had previously written about the saga in 2007. But this morning the Walkleys brawler went further, stating that “Gillard shared a home in Fitzroy bought by Wilson using the embezzled funds.”

    Crikey understands that this sentence, removed by News Limited lawyers four years ago, is false.

    Now, the entire piece has been deleted from The Australian’s website, with the newspaper forced to issue a grovelling apology acknowledging that the “assertions are untrue”. Damningly, Milne had failed to ring the PM’s office for comment.

    The Australian’s editor, Clive Mathieson, issued the following statement to Crikey this morning: “We’re investigating the Prime Minister’s claim of inaccuracies in the story. As the correction points out, we regret that the PM was not given any chance to respond to the allegations.”

    Asked whether Milne would be sacked, Mathieson said “he remains a contributor to The Australian.”

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/08/29/milne/

  115. Gab

    You still have not explained the relevance of 16 years, Steve. despite a number of people asking you to do so.

  116. LaRouchite

    Sinclair, On the Open Forum 😉

  117. Gab

    LaRatchit why do you keep posting articles already posted by Steve?

  118. daddy dave

    the re-hired columnist filed an error-filled op-ed reviving discredited allegations

    Where have the allegations been discredited? Honest question.

  119. C.L.

    Crikey – working hard to muzzle the press on behalf of the ALP. What a snivelling, cowardly collection of sycophantic baby nazis.

    I still think this is a piece of brilliant promotion from The Australian. Hardly any columnists get read much these days – Milne’s column is the talk of the country and sales of the paper must be up everywhere.

  120. daddy dave

    LOL. Crikey – and Steve – suggest the REAL scandal is Bolt and Smith

    Yes, just like the real scandal in the Thomson affair is how much the Coalition are pursuing it.

  121. daddy dave, even Bolt says he doesn’t believe Gillard did anything illegal.

  122. LaRouchite

    LaRatchit why do you keep posting articles already posted by Steve?

    Gob, I didn’t know the article had already been posted, Crikey has been down for most of the day.

  123. Infidel Tiger

    Crikey has been down for most of the day.

    Public servants everywhere furious.

  124. LaRouchite

    I still think this is a piece of brilliant promotion from The Australian. Hardly any columnists get read much these days – Milne’s column is the talk of the country and sales of the paper must be up everywhere.

    lol The Australian loses money hand over fist and has a tiny readership. It will disappear as soon as Rupert does.

  125. Gab

    Well perhaps you should read the comments here before posting the same articles. A quick Ctrl+F could also be used if you can’t be bothered reading/scanning this thread.

  126. d-d your memory is too feeble to remember the Nick Sherry story, I suppose.

    You were surprised and asked me when I had first heard of the Gillard/Wilson story – when Bolt had even extracted the 2007 report about it.

    The Crikey link shows how many times it’s been dealt with in the media before, but apparently it was all news to you.

  127. Infidel Tiger

    d-d your memory is too feeble to remember the Nick Sherry story, I suppose.

    This latest attempt to censor the debate because the poor little whoremonger might top himself is pathetic. If he wants to avoid the scandal, be a man, fess up and go home to your long suffering pregnant wife.

  128. Gab

    It’s interesting the last time a Thomson scandal erupted was when his wife was pregnant with their first child.

  129. daddy dave

    daddy dave, even Bolt says he doesn’t believe Gillard did anything illegal.

    Neither did I. Everyone says she didn’t and I accept that. However, Crikey used the word “discredited” and so I was merely curious where and when this discrediting occurred.

  130. Sinclair Davidson

    d-d your memory is too feeble to remember the Nick Sherry story, I suppose.

    That’s just bullshit.

  131. JC

    Lol Lyndon says:

    Gob, I didn’t know the article had already been posted, Crikey has been down for most of the day.

    He knows that, Gab as he’s been furiously clicking on the site for that entire time while downing Xanax because of it.

  132. Gab

    Neither did I. Everyone says she didn’t and I accept that. However, Crikey used the word “discredited” and so I was merely curious where and when this discrediting occurred.

    Good point, Daddy Dave.

  133. John Comnenus

    A stat dec is signed and published in the media and the shutters of the whole ruling class elite come crashing down. Not knowing the facts and only seeing the allegations I have three questions:

    1. Has Julia Gillard ever directly rebutted the allegations – not dismissed them with claims that she was a 35 yr old partner at a major law firm while somehow still young, naive and smitten, has she ever directly said the claims are not true? Surely if it’s old news, there’s an old denial;

    2. Did Bill Shorten refer the alleged theft of a million dollars to the Police? If not, why not?

    3. Why did fellow Victorian Left luminary, Lindsay Tanner, so strenuously oppose Julia Gillard’s pre selection? Did it have anything to do with these claims?

  134. C.L.

    It’s clear from what’s emerging that Australia’s union leaders are thieves and more of them should be jailed. It actually seems incredible now to learn of what’s been going on. Abbott should call for a Royal Commission into union finances and accountability.

  135. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I am so pleased to hear that Julia Gillard was just a bright-eyed naive little thing when she was a Partner at Slater and Gordon and set up accounts for her lover without even questionning what they were for, or what he was on about. I am quite familiar with these sorts of firms. Thus I know that partnerships in top tier law firms are so easy to get for dewey-eyed little girls in their early thirties. I know lots of girls who are in that position; the halls of top tier law firms are full of naive young women who have very quickly achieved partnerships and nobody ever checks on what they do. I’m sure that despite their high quality double Commerce/Law degrees and all the experience of their twenties, it would never enter the pretty little heads of these high achieving girls to smell a rat, especially if they were physically in bed with their client. So that’s why I think this is all so unfair on Gillard and nobody should be questionning her at all about this period in her life. No-one wants to hear about this sort of thing. Our impressive Prime Minister was obviously very naive and very easily taken for a ride by a conman. All of these girls in their early 30’s who have attained partnerships in top tier law firms are a bit dippy and I hope they all try to become Prime Minister some day, because Julia Gillard is such a good example to them, showing that it doesn’t matter if you are a bit dippy because naivity is its own excuse. And its own reward.

  136. daddy dave

    Naivety is a standard, respectable defense for lawyers in their mid-thirties. If you think otherwise you’ve clearly never watched “Sex and the City.”

  137. JC

    Liz

    If she’s stupid an naive at 35, why would she be any smarter at 48?

    As for little girls in their mid 30’s? Please, that’s offensive.

    I think you’re making a parody.

  138. Infidel Tiger

    I think you’re making a parody.

    Ya think!

  139. JC

    lol

    IT, you’re right but you never know with lefties. They’ve posted stupider comments intended to be serious.

  140. twostix

    lol The Australian loses money hand over fist and has a tiny readership. It will disappear as soon as Rupert does.

    Which is of course is why it is constantly a target of deranged spittle-flecked diatribes by the likes of you and Bob Brown.

    All targeted towards a newspaper with “a tiny readership”.

  141. JC

    The Australian’s editor, Clive Mathieson, issued the following statement to Crikey this morning: “We’re investigating the Prime Minister’s claim of inaccuracies in the story. As the correction points out, we regret that the PM was not given any chance to respond to the allegations.”

    Asked whether Milne would be sacked, Mathieson said “he remains a contributor to The Australian.”

    But while the article has been removed, the line continues to fester on fellow News Limited columnist Andrew Bolt’s blog. Interestingly, Bolt has written the following disclaimer directly after it:

    “I am not sure that Gillard did share a home with Wilson. My own understanding is that she maintained her own house.”

    Late this morning, the Ten Network talk show host issued an “update”, acknowledging The Oz had pulled the story.

    While a popular topic in the right wing blogosphere, the allegations are rarely taken seriously by professional journalists.

    May be this is the dumb question. If a couple are an item they would mostly likely be staying at each others place and one home would become the center of gravity.

    Are we to believe Gillard or her boy friend at the time went home after a night of carefree love making and candle lit baths/ sensuality?

    Honest question.

    Now crikey say that the allegations aren’t taken seriously by professional journalists. That’s fine, but why shouldn’t other people take the allegations seriously especially about the cheques and bank accounts?

    These questions are obviously pretty silly so there must be some ready answers.

  142. JC

    oops… that quote is from Crikey.

  143. John V K

    Lizzie B is that B for Borden perhaps.

    I like bed time stories got another one.

  144. twostix

    If she’s stupid an naive at 35, why would she be any smarter at 48?

    Considering she was still running around with commies in the Socialist Forum until 2002 age 39 and was involved in the publication of such gems as:

    “The Greening of the Red, a recipe for left-wing totalitarian control via environmental activism”

    One really should wonder about her judgement overall.

  145. C.L.

    Crikey’s self-description:

    We expose the intellectual dishonesty, the flimsy arguments and the distorted data wherever they appear in the mainstream media. We challenge the punditocracy, and provide an alternative forum for discussing the day’s events. We welcome debate about politics and society, but constructive debate needs to be based on reason and facts. We’re doing our bit to hold the opinion-makers to these standards.

    Crikey Apologises to Tim Blair.

  146. C.L.

    …the allegations are rarely taken seriously by professional journalists.

    LOL.

  147. daddy dave

    These questions are obviously pretty silly so there must be some ready answers

    Of course there are, JC. We’ll be getting those answers any moment now and this silly, baseless matter will be put to rest.

  148. Sinclair Davidson

    If a couple are an item they would mostly likely be staying at each others place and one home would become the center of gravity.

    Are we to believe Gillard or her boy friend at the time went home after a night of carefree love making and candle lit baths/ sensuality?

    At that time Mrs D and I were starting out and we had separate places and I’d say we each would have spent one or two nights a week at each other’s place. But I’d be hard pressed to say where and when and how after all this time.

  149. Infidel Tiger

    Julia believed all property was theft back then, so it didn’t belong to anyone.

  150. Get real.

    I worked on the aftermath of a multi-million dollar fraud some years ago. The above documents were exactly what the fraud squad and ICAC seized and subpoenaed, along with diaries. They proved conclusively that people and equipment were not where they claimed they were when submitting invoices for work allegedly completed. Those investigators managed to get their hands on them lickety-split.

    I’ve also seen staff sacked where they submitted timesheets saying they were in the office when toll statements showed them to be on their way home.

    Credit card statements are pretty simple to work with – was she buying groceries in Fitzroy or in the suburb where she had her abode? Was she eating out in Fitzroy or somewhere else? Was she refuelling in Fitzroy of somewhere else? Was she buying weekly train tickets at the local station or somewhere else? Was she paying any utility bills in Fitzroy?

    All you have to do is ask the bank to supply a copy if you’ve lost the originals.

    So what if it’s 16 years ago? The computer doesn’t care whether a transaction happened 5 minutes ago or 5 years ago – it just spits out the records.

  151. Tiny Dancer

    Steve bores me. Over at his shite blog he’s still banging on about the Abbott arse joke. Completely oblivious to the crisis in the government.

    Steve, that a crisis of confidence and integrity let alone policy.

  152. By the way, not long after this episode, this “young, naive” woman scored a job as Chief of Staff to John Brumby, then Opposition Leader.

    I’m sure Brumby put out a job ad seeking a “naive, foolish young woman” to fill the role. Yes, he wouldn’t want a tough, hard headed, road tested, experienced person to take on the most important job in his office.

  153. JC

    sinclair:

    That’s fine, but I fail to see how where she lived most of the time is core to this story. She opened bank accounts under the union name and didn’t ask for any proof that the accounts were approved at the board level and why he was the only signatory to the accounts, which in of itself ought to be an immediate red light to a lawyer.

    That’s where the real story is, not where she lived.

  154. JC

    Let me re-prharse that… she helped facilitate opening bank accounts under the union name…

  155. Infidel Tiger

    The Gillard story is a distraction. There is a whoremongering liar guilty of grand larceny living in Dobell. Coincidentally the member for Dobell seems to be in the news lately.

  156. THR

    The Gillard story is a distraction. There is a whoremongering liar guilty of grand larceny living in Dobell.

    Now now. There’s no evidence of Mr Bird whoremongering.

  157. Sinclair Davidson

    JC – I don’t know what the usual processes are within the union movement. As I indicated in the other post today there do appear to be corporate governance problems in the union sector and bear in mind this was the mid-1990s. Not that long ago, but still a different world.

  158. Sinclair Davidson

    There’s no evidence of Mr Bird whoremongering.

    Philomena.

  159. Token

    I know something else that happened in 1996 that faux conservatives like Steve are not willing to forget, even though it did happen 15 years ago.

    If I remember right, every time the other red head shows up lefties go feral…referring to this speech as if it happened a short time ago…

  160. Token

    She opened bank accounts under the union name and didn’t ask for any proof that the accounts were approved at the board level and why he was the only signatory to the accounts, which in of itself ought to be an immediate red light to a lawyer.

    The dubiousness of the story she was young and naive is the question, her judgement is the question. The fact she was doing legal work for a person she was intimate for is the question

    Whether she was shacked up with the fraudster is only irrelevant if someone gets that hand written receipt and chases whether it is kosher.

  161. JC

    Sinclair:

    Unions i presume are incorporated entities, no? If so, as a lawyer why didn’t she ask for any comfort as to why the then boyfriend was the only signatory to those accounts? Being an only signatory is a red freaking flag.

    Generally speaking Lawyers are meticulous when it comes to paying out money to a specific account to ensure it goes into the right one. They are meticulous because they could be held liable if say a spouse runs away with the loot, as a result of a payment going to the wrong account.

    I’m pretty shocked the union didn’t claim damages from the law firm.

    Possibly and I’m just speculating here, this may be the reason why she left the firm perhaps?

  162. That’s where the real story is, not where she lived.

    It’s a story if she makes a big deal out of denying that she ever lived with the bloke. If proof turns up that she was shacked up with him, it’s another JuLiar moment.

    There are a number of incremental steps.

    1. Having your own toothbrush
    2. Being granted space in the closet
    3. Insisting toilet seat be left down
    4. Two razors appear in the bathroom
    5. Re-arranging furniture

    The last one is the kicker – when a woman starts re-arranging your stuff, you know she’s taken a proprietary view of your manpad. The big question the MSM should be asking is this – “PM, did you ever move any of the furniture to create a more appropriate ambience and style?”

  163. Rafe

    What JC said. Focus on the key issues – the practices of trade union officials, the legislation put in place by the Trade Union Party, the undue influence of trade union reps in the party. The financial dependence of the Greens on three particular unions who fund them. The influence of the Greens on the Government.

  164. JC

    The dubiousness of the story she was young and naive is the question, her judgement is the question. The fact she was doing legal work for a person she was intimate for is the question

    Yep all those… and who gives a shit she was at 35, young and impressionable. No one with an ounce of grey matter would buy that codswallop

    Whether she was shacked up with the fraudster is only irrelevant if someone gets that hand written receipt and chases whether it is kosher.

    Actually being shacked up is incidental as there could be a case that you could be living with a fucking ax murderer and not know. Living with him or not I think is immaterial.

    It’s the bank account and the related shit that is interesting I think. I wonder if there was a claim by the union against the firm for professional negligence? Unless I’m mistaken she kinda left the firm not long after that.

  165. JC

    Boy, living with the dude is neither here not there, i reckon.

    Yep Rafe. Particularly the disgusting Greenslimers who preach against special interests when really those scum are up to their necks in it with union relationships. That also goes for the Liars Party in spades too.

  166. Rafe

    What JC said (again) [just call me a JC groupie] being the sole signatory to the account should be the biggest red flag for any lawyer, and especially one in a firm like Slater and Gordon where business and commercial law is a specialty.

  167. Token

    The Gillard story is a distraction. There is a whoremongering liar guilty of grand larceny living in Dobell. Coincidentally the member for Dobell seems to be in the news lately.

    As we’ve discussed before IT, unless some magic new information comes forward, this government will limp on for as long as possible to avoid all the legal double dissolution dates.

    Antony Green did a good article on this back on 30/6/11 noting the key dates. I

    Under the provisions of the Constitution, the last possible date for a double dissolution in the current term is 27 March 2013, which probably means the Coalition would need to take government by around the middle of 2012 to give itself time to arrange a double dissolution trigger…

    …One other point to make is that if the Labor government makes it through to the end of its term in the second half of 2013 and the Coalition won that election, then the Coalition would probably find it impossible to hold a double dissolution until the first half of 2015…

    …While it is not explicit in the Constitution, I believe it is implicit in the fixed terms of the Senate that a double dissolution trigger can only apply to legislation first blocked by a Senate in place after 1 July 2014. The Constitution states the Senators take their place on the 1 July after their election. Any double dissolution triggers attempted before new Senators take their seats would not allow the new Senators to vote on the legislation.

    An attempt to create a double dissolution trigger before the new Senators took their seats would attempt to terminate the terms of 108 Senators rather than the 72 implied by the Constitution.

    This stinking bloated incompetent mob will seek to live through the scandal surrounding the Member for Dobell and the scandal after that, and the scandal after that until these dates are past. Then all bets are off.

  168. Sinclair Davidson

    Unions i presume are incorporated entities, no?

    I suppose so.

    A related story – in the late 1990s I had a PhD students researching non-profits. She wanted to analyse financial statements and went to the appropriate regulatory agency to get them only to discover that a significant sub-set were not compliant with their disclosure obligations. The agency didn’t follow up because it didn’t have the man-power or the budget and they reckoned that it didn’t really matter because they were non-profits.

    Point of the story – there is a lot of slack.

  169. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Hey Daddy Dave, sex in the city is a bit different to sex and the city. Now whereabouts IN the city of Melbourne did most of that eye-wide-shut sex and those delicious post-sex sleeps of that naive little lawyer take place? Her place, or his? Or was it let’s toss a coin on it tonight sweetie-pie ‘cos as we know, we’re both doing renos?

  170. Rafe

    BTW what are the Larvae saying about all this? I am not prepared to look.

  171. Token

    Boy, living with the dude is neither here not there, i reckon.

    One part of the story involved Gillard paying for renovations to the amount of $17k I believe, where she produced a hand written receipt for the work. I was saying that I’ve not seen any details on whether anyone checked whether it was kosher.

    Otherwise the question is why a partner at S&G who was in a relationship with a union official was doing work of a junior?

  172. C.L.

    Young and Naive:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCYwcObxl78

    Karen: What do you do?
    Henry: What?
    Karen: What do you do?
    Henry: I’m in construction.
    Karen: They don’t feel like you’re in construction.
    Henry: Ah, I’m a union delegate.

  173. Gab

    lol.
    And cute little background song in that clip, CL.

  174. nic

    Rafe, let me think about what is probably being said. Lefty Kim is angry about the right of a woman to sleep in whichever house she chooses, she isn’t a chattel for the mere use of men (but silent about other women), Maaaark will invoke Howard for creating a free market economy that led to the growth in prostitution and that his labor mates tell him that………

  175. big dumb fu

    This is just so damn grubby. Nice find CL! Henry wasn’t lying!

  176. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    John V K – hmmm. Lizzie Borden eh? Wasn’t she the chick who was somewhat handy with an axe?

  177. Lazlo

    Umm.. call me naive, but wouldn’t the Law Society (an oxymoron, possibly) be interested in (hypothetically)someone professionally acting on behalf of someone with whom they have an interest?

    But I could be very stupid..

  178. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    $17 grand and only one handwritten receipt? I just had my computer fixed for $150 and the handwritten receipt ran to two pages. Even so, I’m expecting the ATO to be very, very suspicious. They do not look kindly upon handwritten receipts on plain forms from guys they’ve never heard of with no fixed address. So much for my friends. Now, Ms. Gillard, about yours …????

    Nighty night all.

  179. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    $17 grand and only one handwritten receipt? I just had my computer fixed for $150 and the handwritten receipt ran to two pages. Even so, I’m expecting the ATO to be very, very suspicious. They do not look kindly upon handwritten receipts on plain forms from guys they’ve never heard of with no fixed address. So much for my friends. Now, Ms. Gillard, about yours …????

    Nighty night all.

  180. Gab

    Perfectly reasonable question, Lazlo. Conflict of interest issues, my guess. But then I don’t know how all this lawyering stuff works.

  181. Lazlo

    Yes Gab, we might believe in standards, accountability, rule of law etc. But to naive young partners it seems to be different rules..

  182. John V K

    Yer one of the first female Butchers, broke the glass ceiling a few times. Had people issues not a good people person.

    Night mate.

  183. Lazlo

    Good to see the hollow men on night duty JVK. But as per Fair Work Australia (delaying enquiries as long as my rulers want), are you on overtime rates?

  184. John V K

    I just came in because I was intrigued.

    I know a lawyer bluff when I see one. Had hundreds of Lawyers and Accountants sooled on me back in the day. Came with the territory. Done a bit of audit time to time, this is the first card in the three trick play.

    Just intrigued that’s all. No hollow man though often mistaken, used to look like the Drummer for Black Sabbath in me youth about as close to politics and revolution I ever came, me I recommend reconstructing the establishment from time to time not burning it down.

    Do not mistake me for V. Just a letter in me name.

  185. Lazlo

    Someone has persuaded me that I might be misinterpreting you JVK. Apologies if so..

  186. Lazlo

    PS Do you really mean (or have you ever been) a look-a-like for a Black Sabbath drummer? Appropriate answer please, else I will get irresponsibly rude again.

  187. coz

    …for people who are concerned about Nick Sherry’s health, he’s fully recovered and indulging in typical labor party behaviour – this story is from about a year ago.

    http://www.theadvocate.com.au/news/local/news/general/sherrys-party-asked-to-leave-top-restaurant/1989675.aspx?src=rss

  188. Gab

    The Age has all the dirt, apparently, being in the inner circle of a certain office:

    But then Milne added a startling detail about Ms Gillard and Mr Wilson. ”What the lawyers would not allow to be reported was the fact that Gillard shared a home in Fitzroy bought by Wilson using the embezzled funds. There is or was no suggestion Gillard knew about the origin of the money,” he said.

    This was one for the Prime Minister’s personal attention, her staff decided. Ms Gillard made a furious early morning phone call to John Hartigan, the chief executive of News Ltd, which publishes The Australian.

    Another call went to The Australian’s editor Chris Mitchell. Both calls demanded an immediate retraction and apology amid threats of legal action.

    Shortly after 9.30am, Milne’s column disappeared from The Australian’s website and was replaced by a short and sharp apology, headlined ”Correction”.

    It’ seems it’s all legal for the Age to print the offending and alleged defamatory content, but not for the Oz.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/gillard-calls-murdoch-paper-sorry-20110829-1jig6.html#ixzz1WQcxkHHG

  189. Gab

    I should say Fairfax, not just the Age.

  190. C.L.

    Bizarre. Is that why Bolt has posted a mysterious statement of withdrawal on his blog? Miffed with News?

  191. Gab

    It’s very cryptic, CL. I didn’t sense miffed, sounded depressed and fed up with all the curtailing of free speech in general.

  192. JC

    you know what happened?

    Duckbum sees the Milne piece early in the morning after one of her staffers tells her. She flips out and calls those dudes and says..

    we had that make nice meeting where you guys said you’d change the color of some of your stripes and I now see this. You aresholes, you total asresholes. I’ll see you in court.

    Those two fuckers get really scared and pull the piece. That’s what happened.

    Next time fellas, man the fuck up for a change. If you run a piece and have doubts, run it by a lawyer and then stick with it if you get the okay, otherwise give the job away.

  193. C.L.

    Relatively unbowed, The Australian reveals more about the rotting Labor/union nexus:

    Donations, deals and declarations: how the HSU’s money flowed to Labor.

    National HSU president Michael Williamson – a close friend and mentor of Mr Thomson, who is now a federal Labor MP – said last night the omission was “a genuine oversight and the return is being amended now that it has been brought to our attention”.

  194. Gab

    But how is it that Fairfax can print the same information on Gillard’s love nest and get away with it but the Oz has to pull the story?

  195. JC

    There’s an easy way to stop this ALP/Union money grab.

    Demand through legislation that union dues are to be broken up and the members vote if they want part of their money sent to the ALP, in which case they have to pay more per month.

    That ought to set things straight once and for all.

    Listen to Labor screaming.

  196. JC

    But how is it that Fairfax can print the same information on Gillard’s love nest and get away with it but the Oz has to pull the story?

    Because Labor won’t sue Fairfax. Everyone knows that 🙂

    It’s their only hold.

  197. C.L.

    Nicka Savva brutally slams Gillard and her ‘government – as well as “attack puppy” Crag Emerson.

  198. Gab

    Okay that’s two articles you’ve pipped me at, CL. Stop it, please 🙂

  199. Entropy

    JC, I wouldn’t be too hasty on speculating on the departure from a law firm of the politically inclined. Plenty of them, just like think tanks and certain lobby groups, can sometimes serve as locations for parachuting ex pollies and officials of the political party to which they have an alignment until the next opportunity arises. Kind of like the reserve bench.

    It can be a handy guide to the political alignment of the organization.

  200. I think the most likely explanation for Bolt’s mystery post is that he had a fight yesterday with News Ltd and/or their lawyers to tell him to pull the offending extract from Milne’s article, and he refused.

    As I said in the morning, it seems a dubious exercise to repeat the allegation and then merely say (to paraphrase) “I’m not sure that’s right.” The other media outlets who have published the allegation and retraction are clearly reporting it as a false and defamatory allegation. Bolt noted the apology and retraction, yes, but left up his personal view that he was not sure: it’s a fine line, but I think the lawyers would be much happier with actual withdrawal of the extract of Milne article – especially as many media outlets were linking to Bolt to get what was said after The Australia pulled the column.

    Incidentally, the reaction of people here (referring the “love nest” etc) shows why the allegation was defamatory.

  201. Entropy

    What’s defamatory about referring to a “love nest”? Are you saying the relationship was platonic?

  202. Sinclair Davidson

    Are you saying the relationship was platonic?

    Now that would be defamatory. 🙂

    Steve – Is there some subtlety that we’re all missing here? The man was a conman, Gillard has admitted to being conned.

  203. Well that’s funny: Bolt and Smith run with a lot of words that the old story will raise such serious doubts about Gillard’s judgement that it will likely kill her politically, and no one at Catallaxy can see how an allegation that she not only was this conman’s girlfriend, but she lived with him in his house which he had used her to help fund, is not defamatory.

    The lawyers thought it was defamatory in 2007. It’s a mystery whether News Ltd has changed lawyers, or whether Milne’s column somehow by passed legal review this time, but in the absence of Milne having reliable information that backs up his claim, the original legal decision obviously hasn’t been invalidated by any of the events of the last few weeks. If anything, the general story of union officials and corruption would make it all the more likely that anything false said about Gillard’s old relationship with a corrupt union official has much more potential to harm her reputation.

    By the way – I see that Bolt’s blog has all of his posts relating to this story removed – which I take as further confirmation that this is all about arguments he is having with News Ltd over his control of his blog.

  204. Sinclair Davidson

    Steve – we’re asking you to explain why you think it is defamatory. She has admitted to being in a relationship with the person and that he was a conman who had conned her as well as other people. The claim that she lived in his house is either true or false but even if it were true, why is it also defamatory?

  205. Didn’t I just explain that? Because the closer a conned person is to a conman, the easier or more likely it is for the general public to think that she has poor judgement, or even that she might be in on the con. From a website:

    That the words were capable of a defamatory meaning as understood by ordinary members of society. Defamatory meaning could be anything which harms the person, in their reputation, their business or in the way other people treat them. The law does not say that the plaintiff must show actual proof of being harmed; it is enough that the false statement could have led to harm.

    I am making a judgement as to what the ordinary member of society would make of it; you’re free to disagree, but as you know, Catallaxians’ judgement is something that I routinely think is off the planet anyway.

  206. Sinclair Davidson

    I would have thought it to be an open question. By definition conmen are very persuasive but at the same time it must always raise questions about judgement at the time. Regrettably having been taken in by a conman isn’t a rare event and it happens to a lot of people. The first question to ask is, ‘What did you learn from this experience?’ and so on. She has admitted to being naive at the time. It seems to me that the best argument you can raise is the Keynesian beauty contest – it’s not what you think but what you think others will think.

    Anyway – I can see we’re simply going to talk at each other, so enjoy your planet.

  207. Rafe

    Bolt removing his posts is a bit like the WW2 newspaper revolt against the censorship at the time which people like Penton and his boss Packer thought had gone too far. Some major papers appeared with big blank spaces so the public could see how much material was getting cut. I think the authorities gave in and commonsense prevailed.

  208. Someone should listen to what Bolt said on his radio show this morning and report back. I can’t do it where I am right now…

  209. Sinclair Davidson

    I did – they spoke about windmills and a gay museum.

  210. Sinclair Davidson

    Rafe – the AFR operates behind a paywall. You have a subscription and can see the article. Most here don’t and get caught.

  211. I am guessing that there may well be contractual issues involved – the extent to which Bolt is free to run his blog without interference, whether he indemnifies News Ltd for any defamation action he causes to be taken against them, whether he has to follow instructions of News Ltd lawyers to remove material, or is he entitled to rely on his own legal advice.

  212. Rafe

    Thanks Sinc, I will terminate the trial, I wanted to take some block quotes out of a couple of articles but they block that by filling the text with rubbish that appears when you cut and paste.

  213. C.L.

    …Catallaxians’ judgement is something that I routinely think is off the planet anyway.

    Remember when you excitedly claimed that Tony Abbott would be frogmarched out of his position because of a ‘bribery scandal’ in the Northern Territory, Steve? Somebody in the Liberal Party had done something wrong up there and you thought he was connected in some personal way to the Opposition Leader.

    How’d that work out?

  214. Sinclair Davidson

    Rafe – that is a deliberate strategy by the AFR to prevent cutting and pasting.

  215. CL, I believe I made about a one line reference to it, and if I recall correctly I said it “sounds serious”. You are simply doing your routine exaggeration and misrepresentation again.

  216. tiny dancer

    “open slather” Stevie. Your words. What’s changed your mind?

  217. Nic

    Just a thought, News pulling the story has led to it getting an even bigger run, newspaper ads, Fairfax is reporting it with glee. Perhaps its just the prince Machiavelli in me, I wonder if Gillard has fallen into a trap. Far from hushing up the allegations………

  218. Pure Poison’s post on this has some interesting additional theories in comments, including Bolt being sounded out by the Liberals to run against Gillard.

    I think it’s being said a serious rumour.

  219. Infidel Tiger

    including Bolt being sounded out by the Liberals to run against Gillard.

    In her seat?

  220. Yes. Are you too afraid of catching cooties if you visit Pure Poison to read for yourself?

  221. As I say, it’s not entirely clear if it is being reported seriously.

  222. Scott

    Would be somewhat difficult when he has a blog post entitled ‘I’d vote Labor in Lalor‘.

  223. Nic

    Pure Poison? Gee, it must be true then /sarc.

  224. I doubt it myself too. I think it is more likely just a case of Bolt being told to pull material he didn’t want to, and even if he accepted that they legally had the right to force him, he’s gone on “strike” as a response.

    It would be good to know what the true story is, though.

  225. C.L.

    Steve, you’re a proven liar and hypocrite on the “fair game” and numerous other matters. You’re ‘CL’s a poo-poo head’ retort won’t work, sorry.

    You thought Abbott was a goner for his (as it happens, non-existent) connection to an obscure (non)-bribery ‘scandal’ in the Top End.

    But you’re OK with Gillard setting up mystery bank accounts for a union mobster she also happened to be rooting at the time.

  226. C.L.

    Has Pure Poison had to withdraw and crawl to Tim Blair for forgiveness this week?

  227. Nic

    How can I believe anything about Bolta coming from a blog that is linked to a number of in my opinion, creepy sites, that critique every minutae of the man’s life and words? Hardly the voice of any reason.

  228. Token

    I’ll take your word about what they are saying at Pure Poison Steve. After all, to paraphrase someone, Catalaxians’ Pure Poison’s judgement is something that I routinely think is off the planet anyway.”

  229. I am no fan of Pure Poison: people may note that I have never, to my recollection, linked to their comments before.

    But this is an unusual and intriguing story as to what Bolt is up to, and unlike people here, I don’t live in fear of somehow being covered in excrement if I visit a blog I don’t generally like.

  230. stevec

    steve @10.56
    The Lalor comment sounded pretty tongue in cheek to me.

    Bolt is having a massive tanty, I assume steve from brisbane is correct about Bolt being told to pull material.

    You can listen to him (not) explaining himself on 2GB linked on Bolt’s blog under the post titled “The clash”

  231. C.L.

    I am no fan of Pure Poison…

    LOL.

  232. Infidel Tiger

    and unlike people here, I don’t live in fear of somehow being covered in excrement

    Weirdo.

  233. For a person who usually shows all the sense of humour of a Gerard Henderson, you like to bung on a laugh on the stupidest of pretexts, CL.

  234. terry

    I think its a matter of can anyone trust the word of someone who has lied so much, climate gate busted the scam but they still flog it , read the emails and computer code it was fraud alright.

  235. Nic

    Hey, mock as ye may, Gerard Henderson is a legend. Gnome like perhaps, but there’s a great deal of commonsense in what he says.

  236. He’s not the worst commentator in the land, but he hardly gives the impression of being a barrel of laughs at a dinner party. But get a few drinks into him, and he might share hilarious, lewd and entertaining stories of politicians he has know – who knows.

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