Larvatus Prodeo closing down

Mark Bahnisch is closing LP.

As of today, Larvatus Prodeo will cease publishing.

After a couple of test posts, the blog began to wend its way through the online world on March 17, 2005, so it’s a very old beast in internet years.

We collectively feel seven years is enough.

We have come to the conclusion that while we’d like to reorient our perspective as writers and analysts, LP is not the place to do it. The blog has its own momentum (and its own inertia), and it’s not an easy thing to turn around.

I think the authors have lost interest in the project – over the last while it has been slow to update and the comments haven’t been as lively as in previous years. There is recognition of this point.

I don’t think it’s appropriate to the history and spirit of this blog to just keep it ticking over while our energies are directed elsewhere (and it does take a lot of energy to do this sort of work).

It is always sad when a familiar part of the landscape disappears but given their contempt for free speech (see here and here) that can’t be a bad thing.

Another part of the story, I suspect, is the intellectual exhaustion on the left. They just don’t have a story to tell. Snarky comments can fit into twitter but full argument cannot. I think this is very much a retreat from the front-line in the market for ideas. The new(er) social media complement a blogging presence, while the LP crowd are substituting.

What particularly pleases me is that we at the Cat have managed to renew ourselves and survive the retirement of the founder (Jason Soon – for all the newbies). We have a story to tell and authors to write up our arguments.

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174 Responses to Larvatus Prodeo closing down

  1. kae

    No lavatory paper?

    How sad. /sarc

  2. Jacques Chester

    This came as news to me.

    It’s a pity. I quite liked the fun of being the man behind the curtain for sites as different as LP and the Cat. I’ve got Quiggin on the roll, but he’s a one-man band.

    LP was also for me a refreshing cold breeze of unreality. Every time I’d need to know what is buzzing in the coffee houses of Melbourne and Sydney (and thus governing the fate of the Northern Territory by elaborate proxy), I could pop over to LP and get a taste.

    Oh well.

  3. ar

    “Intellectual exhaustion of the left”… Sounds beautiful.

  4. The site became irrelevant when they started banning all non-greens from commenting there. Echo chambers don’t last that long.

  5. Gab

    Perhaps the strict and restrictive moderation had something to do with the “inertia”.

  6. Big dumb fu

    Does that mean all their regulars will be posting swill here?

  7. brc

    One by one the over-moderated fact-free sites are failing. Seems a free market for ideas and comments is the right way to go, after all. Funny that.

  8. Thumbnail

    But Fran Barlow used such big words.

  9. Peter Patton

    However, LP bloggers, I think, became increasingly uneasy about this focus, wondering whether we weren’t inadvertently feeding the media cycle beast.

    How fitting that the fat lady sings in precisely the same key as she started:

    1. The 21st century leftist mind is still the mind of paranoia.

    2. Academics and self-styled intellectuals still think it is their job to lead and represent the proles.

    3. 80% of LP was always just one long simulacrum of bloated syntax and discursive torture by adjective.

  10. It’s all Tony Abbott’s fault!

  11. sdog

    I didn’t even know Lavatory Rodeo was still a thing.

    Isn’t that the blog Tim Blair used to link to in a point-and-laugh kind of way back on his old site?

    Oh well. #TheirABC will no doubt find sinecures for the most devout of them.
    Team Tupperware FTW.

  12. Peter Patton

    The site became irrelevant when they started banning all non-greens from commenting there. Echo chambers don’t last that long.

    Imagine how much space must be taken up by the list of names they have banned, and/or put into ‘auto-moderation’!?

  13. Peter Patton

    The Australian will be disappointed, as LP was always just one long letter to the editor of The Oz anyway.

  14. Rabz

    Good riddance to banal rubbish.

    Pompous posuers.

  15. John Mc

    Another part of the story, I suspect, is the intellectual exhaustion on the left. They just don’t have a story to tell. Snarky comments can fit into twitter but full argument cannot. I think this is very much a retreat from the front-line in the market for ideas. The new(er) social media complement a blogging presence, while the LP crowd are substituting.

    I think that nails it. After seven years you’d be tired as well, considering what Teh Left is going through ideologically.

    The Cat is important in what it adds to the ‘political watcher’ scene (especially in terms of rebutting Keynsianism). There’s plenty of good blogs out there, but in the Australian context, I think the Cat’s niche is top shelf and unique.

  16. larrikin

    the intellectual exhaustion on the left

    heh, the intellectual fitness of the left wouldn’t even get you to the end of the street.

  17. JC

    What’s Fran Barlow going to do now. Her writing was my only reason for living.

  18. JC

    Harry Could always take their place now.

  19. blogstrop

    Leftists seem to prefer trolling around all the successful conservative-leaning blogs than running their own.

  20. Boy on a bike

    They’re just angling for a big taxpayer funded handout – in the name of “media diversity”. Any bets on how many millions will be thrown their way?

  21. OnTheBus

    Ha Lav Pro is finished.

    Well no surprises really, how long can a blog last where everyone agrees with everyone else and any alternate view is slapped down by the multitude of lefty hand-wringers.

    They ban anyone with an alternative view.

    I remember being banned through one IP address i was using.
    Then creating another ID and lending a lefty, agreeable slant to my posts.
    Yet as soon as I disagreed on one green topic, I was sworn at and abused and banned.
    I tried this little experiment a number of times and everytime the result was the same.

    So no surprises it is finished, it drew no new blood, not to mention the fact they are all living in a dream world.

    Oh and does anyone else ever wonder how Fran Barlow found so much time in everyday to be blogging in Lav Pro as well as twitter and other media when she is suppossed to be at work as a teacher?

    I would hate her to be on my pay-roll.

    It would be fun if she came back to the Cat, shredding such self-rightiousness is fun.

  22. Anna Winter

    Woo, get out the tap shoes, its time for some grave dancing!

  23. Occam's Blunt Razor

    Well, they’de put me on full Moderation for the last couple of months simply because I continually pointed out their errors and they could not cop it. I never defamed anyone or attacked anyone personally – just pointed out how (insert multiple words here) their politics and policy prescriptions were.

    I suspect they did that to many who were thorns in their side instead of being able to argue their own case effectively.

  24. C.L.

    The high point of LP’s joy-da-viver was the rise of then hero Kevin Rudd and the ousting of Howardhitler.

    And then everything started to go embarrassingly wrong.

    There’s an exhaustion on the left now that looks to be systemic and debilitating. They have nothing to say on the topics du jour and those issues about which they could posit honourable leftist takes are of no interest to them. The Labor/Green attempt to ban free speech in Australia being the most egregious and shameful example.

    LP’s closure confirms the Fisky Thesis: to wit, that the left now has nothing to say and must stay out of public affairs for a considerable period.

  25. Infidel Tiger

    They’re just angling for a big taxpayer funded handout – in the name of “media diversity”. Any bets on how many millions will be thrown their way?

    The irony is that taxpayer funded sites like The Drum and The Conversation ruined LP, which was funded privately. Kind of sad really.

  26. Token

    The irony is that taxpayer funded sites like The Drum and The Conversation ruined LP, which was funded privately. Kind of sad really.

    SNAP

    Seriously, how can sites like Crikey, etc survive when the government is funding alternatives at the ABC, Conversation, etc?

    I get a bit of schadenfreude knowing that the greatest fans of government intervention are finding their most treasured non-government institutions are being destroyed by the competition set up on the public teat.

    Now the lefties are becoming dependent on that government teat we can expect they will scream the house down when Abbott to follow Newman’s example and removes public funding.

    I trust David Marr, etc will “re-discover” free speech as the lefties scream for the subsidies to remain.

  27. Gab

    Wow. I didn’t realise CL was banned from LP. I just thought he couldn’t be bothered with the site.

  28. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I only went to LP once, quite recently, via a Bunyip link. It was really horrible, so boring and constrained and entirely predictable in its opinions. Like sitting in an academic tea-room with no escape from the censorious groupthink. I crept out, unobserved. The left are so very dull these days, except for Brendan O’Neill.

    Whereas, I’d pay to stay on the Cat.

  29. C.L.

    I was never formally ‘banned,’ Gab. I was just given the famous LP ‘moderation’ brush-off and – like everyone else – lost interest.

  30. Well no surprises really, how long can a blog last where everyone agrees with everyone else and any alternate view is slapped down by the multitude of lefty hand-wringers.

    Bus
    That should be a warning to some of the attack dogs on this site to be a bit more polite to the lefties or the same fate may await. But at least it seems pretty hard to be banned from here.

  31. Gab

    Oh, I see, CL. Oh well, I’ll now have to stop thinking of you in terms of the ‘James Dean of politics’. :)

  32. Tal

    Oh the old Mohamed is a pedophile vs smelly dead Jesus thread what a farce that was

  33. Tal

    Where’s Evil Pundit Lad? I love to get his take on this

  34. C.L.

    Look, I guess you could call it a ban.

  35. C.L.

    Don’t know if Evil is still around, Tal.

    Remember his brilliant photoshops?

    He was very talented.

  36. Tal

    He was clever and one of the best shit stirrers

  37. pete m

    Those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them – and then you destroy yourself. Richard Nixon.

    To me, the difference between those with a leftist bent and those of the right is the leftist hates with a passion, while the rightist does not. And it galls the leftist even more that their hate and vile is not responded in kind.

    The more you respect a person, the less an impact they have on you, until they eventually realise the meaningless of their existence.

    LP was only of interest when Lefty Kim decided that FGM wasn’t all that bad and Tim Blair made a mockery of her. Not all the back pedalling in the world could save her credibility or shame.

  38. Tal

    pete m that was a shocker of a thread

  39. thefrollickingmole

    The problem with lavatory rodeo is they got eactly what they wanted, good and hard..

    First female PM… fuckup
    Got rid of Howard.. fuckup
    Got rid of refugee laws…fuckup
    Aboriginal apology.. fuckup
    Got rid of workchoices…fuckup

    And there is a list a mile long ofothers, they got thier dream list filled, and had it turn to shit while they watched. They found what they stood for was nothing, compared to what they were against.
    They wont be the same until theyve got “da Abbott” to rail against.
    I posted a few times on refugee issues, being called a nazi got a bit twee after a while.

  40. Gab

    Look, I guess you could call it a ban.

    In that case image restored.

  41. Timely comments Sinc. It’s sad to see LP go, but the Cat’s and a number of other blogs are still going strong. Long may it continue.

  42. papachango

    To a large degree, LP was a victim of its own success, adopting a role as a sort of ‘blog of record’ where the daily political news could be analysed and dissected. I think this was an important thing for some time, particularly during the last of the Howard years.

    (my italics)

    I never really bothered with LP, but I suspect this is the key issue. Lefty blogs and commentariat only really get fired up when there’s someone in power that they can collectively hate.

    It’s also why the Melbourne comedy festival has been dull as ditchwater for the last four years.

    Maybe the’re pulling the plug prematurely, as PM Abbott would give them loads of material to get upset about.

  43. brc

    I trust David Marr, etc will “re-discover” free speech as the lefties scream for the subsidies to remain.

    Not that they ever understood free speech, of course. It doesn’t mean equal access to taxpayer funds for everyone with an opinion.

    Classic example at the comments in Bolts blog the other day. One of the usual trolls posted something along the lines of ‘the Finkelstein review actually improves Free Speech’.

    It will never dawn on the likes of Marr that Free Speech ‘is’ and can never be improved, only taken away.

    The fact that Marr and his ilk have been silent on the constant repression of opinions wherever the Heiss book pops up shows their opinions aren’t worthy of consideration in the future.

  44. Maybe the’re pulling the plug prematurely, as PM Abbott would give them loads of material to get upset about.

    Yep Abbott as PM would be a veritable elixir of life for the lefty blogosphere.

  45. wreckage

    Woo, get out the tap shoes, its time for some grave dancing!

    Yes, because the left are the very model of sobriety when someone they disagree with gets it in the neck. Honestly. Grow up.

  46. My mistake about CL being supposedly ‘banned’ from LP. I do seem to recall he got a distinctly cold treatment to the end.

    During the Howard era we witnessed the rise and fall of a right-wing blogosphere, which was slowly replaced by the frustrated lefty-blogosophere. Arthur Chrenkoff’s blog got a lot of traffic at one point (partly thanks to Tim Blair), but that folded.

    Could be the end of LP may portend a rise in right-wing blogs and sites again – Menzies House doesn’t look like folding anytime soon, and Catallaxy will continue to have an influence for a long time.

  47. Fisky

    Another part of the story, I suspect, is the intellectual exhaustion on the left. They just don’t have a story to tell. Snarky comments can fit into twitter but full argument cannot. I think this is very much a retreat from the front-line in the market for ideas. The new(er) social media complement a blogging presence, while the LP crowd are substituting.

    Yes, that’s right. And I think a growing sense of shame and embarrassment at the Alliance’s appalling behaviour. There are no excuses this time about a “Right Wing ALP” supposedly not running real Leftist policies. This government, a Far Left ALP-Greens betrothal, is exactly what they have always fantasised about. So there’s no escape for them.

  48. OK, I thought that the whole “intellectual exhaustion on the left” thing was a joke, but you guys are serious? Yes, the end of one blog is a sign of the death of an entire political movement.

    *tears up hivemind membership card*

    You know, perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties, it’s a comment on the places that you are hanging out. I understand that the existence of morons at the Cat doesn’t mean that Jason Soon, Helen Dale, or Sinclair Davidson are not worth listening to. Maybe you might want to read a bit more widely also?

  49. Fisky

    During the Howard era we witnessed the rise and fall of a right-wing blogosphere, which was slowly replaced by the frustrated lefty-blogosophere.

    There was really a consolidation – the Cat, Bolt and Blair.

  50. Fisky

    Oh the old Mohamed is a pedophile vs smelly dead Jesus thread what a farce that was

    The Left haven’t been doing much Islamic apologism for years now. It’s too embarrassing.

  51. Feral Abacus

    And this is the sweetest victory of all…

  52. ar

    Any hint yet what Lavatory Rodeo actually means?

  53. brc

    perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties,

    It’s hard to see most for anything apart from what they are.

    Anyone who goes on about the glories of Keynes, pretends well financed illegal immigrants are downtrodden refugees, fantasizes about government muzzling of critics and pines for the day they can pay a carbon tax is very hard to describe as anything other than one who has a male member for a head.

    Being subject to the occasional accidental reading of George M at the Australian is enough for me, I’m afraid. And he at least gets the occasional coherent thought down on paper.

  54. Oh come on

    perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties

    Please be more specific.

  55. Oh come on

    Oops, there’s one now. Who are the others, Anna?

  56. OK, I thought that the whole “intellectual exhaustion on the left” thing was a joke, but you guys are serious? Yes, the end of one blog is a sign of the death of an entire political movement.

    Obviously not but LP was a particularly influential lefty blog, a kind of place for the ‘gathering of the clans’, as it were. And it is possible to interpret its end as a significant milestone for the blogosphere. There are plenty of other moribund lefty blogs I can think of. Of course it’s not the end of the left-wing blogosphere as a significant intellectual force – but it is a moment of some importance in blog history.

    It is sad news – I did have good times over at LP, and remain friends with a number of bloggers who I became acquainted with on places like LP. I really hope that I am not gloating about their end: the more voices in the blogosphere, as far as I’m concerned, the better. (Some of the other Cat commenters probably don’t agree with me though…!)

  57. Gab

    A very sad day.

    Hammy’s back, yay! Please don’t let this event tip you over the edge, okay? JC would be bereft.

  58. Token

    You know, perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties, it’s a comment on the places that you are hanging out.

    Anna, please advise where we can find a Lefty intellectual blog where the participants stick to an ethical framework.

    From my wide reading I find the rules are Lefties make the rules, therefore while they can blithely ignore the shopping list of gripes and entitlments they will shrilly screech if conservatives / libertarians infringe on the list by one iota.

    I’m happy to have my opinion changed with some evidence.

  59. Oh come on

    Well, it was a Margo Kingston thread, but Marylin Shepherd made a memorable cameo.

  60. Oh come on

    Ooops. I meant to post that in the derailed thread, not the one where it might be somewhat relevant with further context.

  61. Rococo Liberal

    You know, perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties…

    Dickhead lefty, now there’s a great tautology for you.

  62. wreckage

    You know, perhaps if all you ever see are the dickhead lefties, it’s a comment on the places that you are hanging out.

    Dunno. I know some non-dickhead lefties, but I rarely encounter any in the media, as it were.

  63. Gab

    People, please be a little sensitive in your comments today towards the lefties. A handful of them a grieving.

  64. C.L.

    My mistake about CL being supposedly ‘banned’ from LP. I do seem to recall he got a distinctly cold treatment to the end.

    Yes and no.

    I was always fond of Mark and Kim.

    Incidentally, personally I wouldn’t play the ‘free speech’ card against LP’s comments policy. It was their private blog and nobody had a ‘right’ to comment there.

  65. Tiny Dancer

    Very sad. It was such good comedy.

  66. Frank

    Peter Patton

    3. 80% of LP was always just one long simulacrum of bloated syntax and discursive torture by adjective.

    No, it was no simulacrum, they were the real deal. Distended shallow pseudery made manifest. The sort that when offered a stick had the unerring ability to grasp it from the wrong end. At length.

    Personally I was waiting for all those posts on the sociology of climate change denialism to be quietly disappeared.

    And yet, Mercurius and his one man campaign to stamp out the evils of ableism will be sorely missed. As an example of po faced chin pulling that one was priceless.

  67. Paul

    Keep it coming Sinclair – as a “newbie” myself, I have made the cat a daily read and have kick started my fascination with economics!

  68. Token

    Hmmm, interesting list you’ve provided for us Anna. We’ll make sure we visit those sites…

  69. Rob

    I got banned from LP about two years ago. To be honest, I have to admit I was asking for it by attacking Brian B somewhat personally. It’s a pity it’s gone; at various times there were some lively and even interesting debates, but it’s been pretty moribund and predictable for quite some time. I greatly missed EP and CL when they were banned, which left me pretty much the only non-lefty still standing. Liam was always good value, though.

    Vale LP.

  70. Rafe

    Thanks for the reminder, I forgot about LP years ago. Who will notice the difference?

  71. Boy on a bike

    I blame the Carbin Tax.

  72. Thanks, Rob, for the thought.
    I’ve obituarised: well, sort of.

  73. H B Bear

    The Labor swamp is draining pretty fast.

    Even the ACTU is dumping the unions now.

  74. Yeah – there was very little incentive to comment on LP if you didn’t share the leftist sentiments of the majority of readers. There were so many of them that it was very difficult to make any headway with an argument; and the commentariat tended (through various means) to discourage any right-of-centre readers from commenting. Either through banning, comment moderation, or that valuable political skill of being able to ignore inconvenient facts for as long as possible.

  75. Rafe

    Liam, you had to have a stronger stomach than mine to persist with LP.

    How much longer before Troppo goes the same way if they can’t come up with anything new and helpful to say? It took me a long time to realise how solidly they are rusted onto the sinking ship of social democracy and the ALP. Not to mention Kenyes and climate alarmism. Call me a slow learner!

  76. Alex Pundit

    Long live the Cat!

  77. Samson Agonistes

    LP was a very soft, culturally leftist forum for those not very interested in the ‘harder issues’ of politics and economics.

    Given the time and effort it takes to get a ‘brand name’ in the blogging world, and given that all of the main protagonists are starting their own blogs, which will surely disappear into anonymity, it seems a strangely petulant decision by MB.

    While its true that the blog seems exhausted, the fact is that the management of it was never up to the task of renewal.

    Given the ravings that Web 2.0 elicited from the blog itself, its disappearance shows that the political enthusiasm for this medium was always unfounded.

  78. Rob

    OK, Rafe, I basically agree with you; but it’s their view and their site, and it is (or was) theirs to run according to their lights. Just as this one is, on the other side of the street.

  79. wreckage

    and it is (or was) theirs to run according to their lights

    Agreed, but it can be asserted without contradictory logic that while they were exercising their legitimate rights, they did so poorly or against the blog’s corporate self-interest.

  80. wreckage

    Liam, above, links his own blog. In the comments section there Anna Winter notes that LP got big enough that the right saw it as The Place to go lefty-bashing and the left saw it as a place to whine that LP wasn’t covering their own personal Very Important Thing; much like the Not A Proper Conservative stick that anyone big on the right gets bludgeoned with.

    From other comments there it seems that perhaps for a lot of the audience it really was linked with Howard, a sense of doing something cyber-subversive right under the nose of Jackboot Johnny.

    But then, what to do now? The ALP has declared war on the blogosphere and invoked all the soft-left shibboleths in doing so, whilst also being (to my eyes at least) a very major disappointment to the Left in a great many areas.

    The fight was fought, the battle won, victory has been at best boring, and now blogging isn’t excitingly subversive anymore, it’s officially Bad And Insensitive.

  81. Jumpnmcar

    The biggest problem with LP IMO was that it allowed itself to be infected with sanctimonious,condescending school teachers ,(ie people that never left school), never experiencing ” work harder= earn more”&”non- essential spending= waste” . It erks me that these people, so laking in this experience, have a huge influence on our kids.
    I’ve personally spent many an hour combating the sense of entitlement issues that my kids gleaned from such cockheads educators with hard facts from life experience.

    I must say, Brian was, in my view, the fairest person there.

  82. Jumpnmcar

    I must say, Brian was, in my view, the fairest person there.

    OK yeah yeah, i accidentally left an opening for ” mirror mirror ” jokes, don’t bother they won’t be funny now. :-

  83. I understand that the existence of morons at the Cat doesn’t mean that Jason Soon, Helen Dale, or Sinclair Davidson are not worth listening to. Maybe you might want to read a bit more widely also?

    The difference between the Cat and LP is that there was never a single author at LP worth listening to, they were all terrible from the get go.

  84. Jumpnmcar

    Yobbo
    Am i wrong to interoperate that both the majority of LP and Cat commenters agree that drugs prohibition is counterproductive ( for different reasons of course)?

    A rare occurrence if i’m correct.

  85. I wouldn’t know. Like everyone else here, I haven’t bothered visiting LP since I got hit with the moderation stick a few years back. It’s pretty hard to participate in a conversation when the people you are arguing with have their comments appear instantaneously while yours have a 12 hour lag time if they appear at all.

  86. Rafe

    Rob I dont deny anyone the right to set up a blog and say practically anything they like but if they want to be taken seriously they have to be prepared to learn, to try get on top of some issues and to listen to challenges and criticism and then respond without abuse and ad homs.

    By the way I appreciated your efforts in attempting to maintain dialogue on LP because I think the only hope for the future lies with civil dialogue between rival parties. You did you best on LP.

    I think the Cat has become quite special since Sinc built up the roster. With Steve, Sinc, Judith, Henry, and others, there is breadth and depth to match any local blog. Others can decide how we rank on the international scale. There is no comparison with LP, all the Cat contributors are masters of at least one area of competence and several have huge practical experience as well.

  87. JamesK

    Where are the loons gonna go?

  88. Rafe

    And some of us are masters of more than one area of competence, like the work of the most important philosopher of the 20th century, the mechanical properties of plant roots and cricket history. Not to mention the strata titles legislation of Australasia (circa 1982).

  89. One of the nice things about Catallaxy is the commenters are always up for an argument. Few minds get changed, and the insults can fly thick and fast, but contention and serious discussion of ideas has never been abandoned here. Some days at LP it seemed debate was abandoned in favour of furious agreement.

  90. Winston Smith

    I ended up at LP several times because I clicked on one of SoBs links.
    What a cesspit.
    Thanks to all you blokes and sheilas who swam in that stuff and saved us others from a fate worse than dross.

  91. Tal

    We don’t argue TimT God forbid

  92. JC

    Where are the loons gonna go?

    wm is the first Lavatory pronto boat refugee to visit the Cat’s shores today.

    We sending him either to the Malaysians or Gitmo. We haven’t decided which yet. We’re in negotiation with him.

  93. Winston Smith

    JamesK, they are coming here.
    Prepare to repel boarders!

  94. JC

    Even Hammy the self terminator made and appearance here telling us he was saddened by the lavatory closing. I had a tear in my eyes when I read his short comment.

    It makes it almost 100% cert he’s going any day now.

  95. Rafe

    What TimT said. He is just so right. And he said it very well too!

    What a fantastic blog this is, and such great comments. It makes me proud…to be Australian.

  96. Gab

    Does this mean Fran is coming back here? I’ll have to get an updated thesaurus then and bone up on the latest “isms”.

  97. JC

    Gab,

    Fran’s a cutey. She gets an automatic pass any time, she shows up here, no matter what drivel she spews out during her work days.

  98. Peter Patton

    I think the Cat and LP can be sharply distinguished. LP was simply a new distribution channel for views/agendas, which were already foundational among a particular segment of middle class white people, right across the country, especially in the education/allied-health/public sector industries.. To that extent, LP was an efficient ‘hub’ for basically neo-marxist university types.

    OTOH, ‘libertarianism’ – let alone catallaxy – could have been Zoroastrianism to all but about 37 people back in 2005. Despite our huge proportion of university graduates, very few Australians had ever been exposed to these ideas/discourses. I certainly hadn’t – or only when I deliberately went hunting – despite working in mega-economic rationalist environments and a couple of university degrees.

    It is quite extraordinary in 2012 to see how ubiquitous this style of thinking has become everywhere from ABC blogs and programs to every blog in the country, commercial media, even universities increasingly.

    The same upward trajectory can not be said for the paranoid identity-politics manipulating and recrudescence of 1970s Communists in school-teacher drag that was LP.

    May peace be with the luvvies.

    HREOC willing.

  99. Gab

    lol sure JC. You want to believe that photo Graeme put up is Fran. That’s okay.

  100. Tal

    Joe is a bit of a softy in that department Gab

  101. Rob

    Rafe,

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the principal bloggers at LP – Mark, Kim, Brian, Kate,et al – never fought anything but clean, even if they did say some dopey things sometimes (like Kim on FGM). But that’s only my opinion. They’d say the same thing about me, I daresay. Some of the commenters were slush, but you have to expect that.

    The problem was they shut down on dissent, these past few years, and that degraded the site and made it boring. A strategic mistake they have maybe learned from.

    But I wish them well in their new endeavours, individual or collective, even if I expect to disagree with them as vehemently as I did in the past.

  102. entropy

    my exposure to pre catallaxy libertarianism was via Tom Clancy novels.

  103. Samson Agonistes

    I think the Cat and LP can be sharply distinguished. LP was simply a new distribution channel for views/agendas, which were already foundational among a particular segment of middle class white people, right across the country, especially in the education/allied-health/public sector industries.. To that extent, LP was an efficient ‘hub’ for basically neo-marxist university types.

    OTOH, ‘libertarianism’ – let alone catallaxy – could have been Zoroastrianism to all but about 37 people back in 2005. Despite our huge proportion of university graduates, very few Australians had ever been exposed to these ideas/discourses.

    In other words, both cultural leftism and libertarian rightism are products of middle class white people with university educations.

    Moreover, they did both come into fashionability in the late seventies and early eighties. On the right, Milton Friedman and supply-side economics were the point of reference. Terminologies and theories may have shifted slightly, but that’s all.

  104. entropy

    I think we all know that poor old LP has had to close due to the relentless negativity of Tony Abbott.

    But, be of good cheer, in not too many more sleeps the relentlessly negative Tony Abbott will be in charge, wantonly destroying all the good policies but in place by that Clever Julia (version #34), so a revival of LP to fight the good fight is surely on the cards.

  105. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    Praise be. Look at how oppressed we have been by these scheming leftist filth. We sit here so abused that we are grateful towards Mark for finally closing this disgusting travesty down. Nary but one or two of you are furious-angry at him for not closing this Nazi site down years ago. This is how much we have all been oppressed by Prodeo. One of the many variants and gradations of Stockhold Syndrome.

  106. JC

    Bird:

    Is that you under santa’s beard? Xmas is over get from under that crap bird.

    What was the other name you gave the lavatory as it was great.

  107. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    The terminology has now turned general on the internet. I would describe it as fascist-lite. An airbrushed fascist site, and so forth. Put that in the google now and its part of the general argot.

  108. JC

    Oh Yea, that’s right….. an airbrushed fascist site.

  109. sdog

    Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past
    10 Apr 12 at 11:10 pm

    What’s the Australian equivalent of the Baker Act?

  110. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    Tell me about the Baker act in its country of origin? I stopped reading the newspapers.

  111. It helps protect the deranged from themselves, and society from the deranged.

  112. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    “Woo, get out the tap shoes, its time for some grave dancing!”

    Anna no individuals have died its only an institution. Well actually only a blog. All the individuals are doing okay. We always asked you particularly to come over to the bright side of the road. I suppose it would be more dignified if you had come on over before your ship had sunk, but we all like you over here in any case, so you should hang out and try and civilise these boys.

  113. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    Right thanks for that Dog. Is it important?

  114. Gab

    Good lord, Graeme, you’ll smooch up to any female that comes along. You can’t help yourself can you.

  115. JC

    Bird:

    You haven’t been here for two secs and you’re now directing traffic at the Cat? ….Who should come over and who should stay. That’s some chutzpah as the Chileans would say :-)

  116. Ghost Of Midyear Christmas Past

    Sure.

  117. Brian

    Just a word to Rob. I can’t remember being attacked by you.

  118. FaceLift

    Did someone say ‘intellectual exhaust fumes of the left’?

    There must be something else in the air.

  119. .

    thumbnail tried

    But Fran Barlow used such big words.

  120. .

    wreckage tried

    The biggest problem with LP IMO was that it allowed itself to be infected with sanctimonious,condescending school teachers ,(ie people that never left school), never experiencing ” work harder= earn more”&”non- essential spending= waste” . It erks me that these people, so laking in this experience, have a huge influence on our kids.
    I’ve personally spent many an hour combating the sense of entitlement issues that my kids gleaned from such cockheads educators with hard facts from life experience.

    I must say, Brian was, in my view, the fairest person there.

  121. .

    Yeah – there was very little incentive to comment on LP if you didn’t share the leftist sentiments of the majority of readers.

    “Adrian” was a bigot who thought that the Government should pick on rich people. Except sitting ALP and Greens MPs (even ones who get their bankruptcy cases paid off by wealthy malthusian cranks).

    The rot set in when the scum of the epically failed leftwrites were invited in.

  122. selen234

    Like Nikki Savva there are conservative lefties…,

  123. Samson Agonistes

    The problem was they shut down on dissent, these past few years, and that degraded the site and made it boring. A strategic mistake they have maybe learned from.

    I doubt that this crackdown on dissent was intentional.

    Like editing a student newspaper, LP was a stepping stone for other perhaps greater things, and who wants to edit a student newspaper for life?

    Vanity began it and vanity kept it going, so it was easier to turn it into a club lounge for like-minded people while you thought of something better to do.

  124. .

    I prefer the catallaxy approach, kill your idols, then hang yourself in the ladies with your necktie.

  125. JC

    The rot set in when the scum of the epically failed leftwrites were invited in.

    What a sick, envy ridden bunch of fucks they are.

  126. Thumbnail

    Mercurius at his hypocritical best in this discussion on the Boat People Tragedy:
    http://larvatusprodeo.net/archives/2010/12/15/boat-people-tragedy/

    I have clearly stated my claims are based on the United Nations own Human Development Index.
    You have clearly stated that, but in fact your claims are based on bigoted, ignorant, hypocritical, imperialist, supremacist beliefs, and you are just using the UNHDI as a convenient stalking-horse for your views.
    I have no issue with the UNHDI, but I do take issue with your abuse of it to fit your own bigoted, ignorant, hypocritical, imperialist, supremacist agenda.
    I am not a Christian, so therefore am no hypocrite.
    You have stated upthread that as a ‘predominantly Christian’ nation (itself a highly contestable claim) we should encourage Muslims to go elsewhere, which is absolutely the antithesis of what a ‘predominantly Christian’ nation ought to do. You seem want to have your predominantlyChristian cake, but not to eat it — and that is what makes your argument hypocritical.
    You don’t know what ‘Ad Hom’ is. I am not making Ad Hominen claims. Ad Hominem would be suggesting there is something wrong with your argument because of some personally deficient qualities you possess. What I am saying is that there is something wrong with your arguments because your arguments are bigoted, ignorant, hypocritical, imperialist and supremacist.
    If you think that other countries are just as good as our country, perhaps you should go and live amongst them for awhile.
    Been there, done that. All were better, in some ways. All were worse, in some ways. On the whole, I didn’t feel it necessary to make comparisons, just made a go of it wherever I found myself. So what?
    You seem bigoted by what seems to be extreme intolerance of my opinion.
    Stop weaseling around. You are making truth-claims, not stating opinions. You are making truth-claims about Muslim cultures and civilisations that are both untrue and offensive. Truth-claims can be wrong, and deserve to be called out when they are wrong. You don’t get to play the “it’s just my opinion” card when you purport to make truth-claims by pointing to external sources and saying “see…my opinion is true!”
    This is the typical tactic of the postmodern troll — go to every length to substantiate ridiculous and disgusting claims, and then retreat, all hurty, with the “it’s just my opinion” card. Ain’t gonna wash around here, matey.
    By the way, you are aware, I take it, that your position is based on religious discrimination. You are stating we should discriminate on who we let into the country based on their religion, despite all the treaties and Australian and international statutes which specifically outlaw religious discrimination. Your “opinion” is that we should deliberately ignore our own laws, and international laws, and engage in religious discrimination. How do you plead?

  127. Alice

    Tim above says
    “Obviously not but LP was a particularly influential lefty blog, a kind of place for the ‘gathering of the clans’, as it were. And it is possible to interpret its end as a significant milestone for the blogosphere. There are plenty of other moribund lefty blogs I can think of.”

    You know, this whole lefy righty thing is so tired now. Its the internal war we must play out until we realise that government isnt exactly working miracles for any of us when they are busy know towing to the oligopolies and the by now obvious wealthy who have managed to regulatory capture governments whilst they defraud everyone else. Yes, we are all too busy fighting oir lefty righty wars on the streets to even notice crao economic policy playing oit around us. Anyone have a job for Gillard yet in a bank because she is nsure angling for one?

    I wouldnt mind a few more polarised blogs shut down so we can get on with things we agree on. Im really over the left right split in most political blogs (who cares? they may play act one way but once in the game etc) and both left and right ordinary people have more in common than most people can even comprehend.

  128. Christian Kerr

    The junior common room for the most common of junior left thoughts is gone. Somoneone had better craft a “History Man” videogame script around its demise or the true cultural significance of this seminal wank will be lost forever.

  129. Fisky

    You know, this whole lefy righty thing is so tired now.

    No it isn’t, and nobody believes your pseudo-non-partisanship.

  130. Alice

    Sorry to say but Fran isnt coming back anytime soon. She has joined that left blog (Quiggers) and is busy changing her spots this year and keeping up her frequent posters points elsewhere.
    Thats the end of Fran.

  131. Christian Kerr

    PS I hear that Mark is hitting up the ARC for few mil in funding for a multimedia presentation entitled “Why I try to look like Tom Waits… more than a generation after he developed the look.”

    The soundtrack will be “The Vice-Chancellor’s been drinking, not me.”

  132. Alice

    Oh and Fisky – even you couldnt believe my non partisanship but when it gets down to feeling you are part of the distracted braying crowd at the Colisseum while Rome burns well thats how it is..

  133. JC

    Yea Christian , what’s with the silly hat he wears?

  134. Alice

    and it is tired this lefty righty thing

  135. .

    Alice tried:

    Sorry to say but Fran isnt coming back anytime soon. She has joined that left blog (Quiggers) and is busy changing her spots this year and keeping up her frequent posters points elsewhere.
    Thats the end of Fran.

  136. JC

    Fran was always good a laugh though Alice. She used to post perfectly written humungously long stuff here and when you finally got through it all, it basically meant nothing and said even less. It was like well written spam, which was refreshing in a way because the spam that tries to sell stuff like penis enlargement supplements are terribly written and usually don’t make sense. Perhaps that’s a line of individual endeavor Fran should think about getting into, to supplement her income…. writing ads for penis enlargement spam ads. I think she’d be great at it.

  137. Gab

    and it is tired this lefty righty thing

    Poor Greenies. They always feel so ignored.

  138. .

    JC tried:

    Fran was always good a laugh though Alice. She used to post perfectly written humungously long stuff here and when you finally got through it all, it basically meant nothing and said even less. It was like well written spam, which was refreshing in a way because the spam that tries to sell stuff like penis enlargement supplements are terribly written and usually don’t make sense. Perhaps that’s a line of individual endeavor Fran should think about getting into, to supplement her income…. writing ads for penis enlargement spam ads. I think she’d be great at it.

  139. Rafe

    I agree that the left vs right thing has been overdone, mostly because there is no such thing as “the right”. We mostly avoid that distraction on the Cat by talking about specific policies. That is one of the reason that a lot of people who drop in tend to stay because they can learn stuff. Blame Sinc for that if you like but it was there from the beginning (I think, it was such a long time ago).

  140. Infidel Tiger

    and both left and right ordinary people have more in common than most people can even comprehend.

    I don’t even consider left wingers to be people, so this is a load of poop.

  141. Abu Chowdah

    Some classic Larvatus celebrated at Quadrant today. Includes this comment by Fran Barlow, which really demonstrates her lack of any fucking clue:

    Fran Barlow: Between “worst PM since Whitlam” and “one of the best PMs ever” there is a lot of ground. Personally, I’d rank Whitlam as Australia’s best PM ever, with daylight to second. I’m not even sure who number 2 would be he’s so far back. It could be Rudd. Howard would almost certainly be the worst, all things considered.

  142. .

    Fran tried:

    Between “worst PM since Whitlam” and “one of the best PMs ever” there is a lot of ground. Personally, I’d rank Whitlam as Australia’s best PM ever, with daylight to second. I’m not even sure who number 2 would be he’s so far back. It could be Rudd. Howard would almost certainly be the worst, all things considered.

  143. .

    Fran tried. She never quoted anyone. They simply tried.

  144. Abu Chowdah

    [scratches head] Hmmm. I see. [/scratches head]

  145. .

    Abu that is how she quoted everyone. She assumed a B Ed gave her superior knowledge in engineering, political science, economics, science, law and ethics. She would then write a disjointed, rambling piece of crap about how you were wrong, based on no evidence and come to a condescending and unsupported conclusion.

  146. C.L.

    You know, this whole lefy righty thing is so tired now.

    LOL.

    As I said yesterday on the Great Sinc/Satan thread:

    I’ve always called it ‘lefty panhandling.’

    Whenever the left is being drummed out of the public square they plaintively beg: “Hey, can’t we agree that now – more than ever – we need ‘non-partisanship’ and ‘civility’?”

    No.

    As Ronald Reagan said of the then extant USSR:

    “My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple…

    It is this: We win and they lose. What do you think of that?”

  147. JC

    Abu that is how she quoted everyone. She assumed a B Ed gave her superior knowledge in engineering, political science, economics, science, law and ethics. She would then write a disjointed, rambling piece of crap about how you were wrong, based on no evidence and come to a condescending and unsupported conclusion.

    lol

    She’d be perfect at writing spam copyright for penis enlargement ads. Perfect.

  148. .

    LP last post nos 284 and 290. lulz

    Casey
    April 11, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Permalink
    Oh no you loved him Jinmaro. He just didn’t return your ardour. Even when you were parading your fat lips on that avatar and calling yourself Phil. And lest everyone suspect my powers have waned, behold: I extracted you out of Joseph.Carey.

    Fran Barlow
    April 11, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Permalink
    Winston tried:

    I will also miss your long winded pieces of rubbish, particularly the ones where you correct everyone and tell them what they are really thinking.

    .

    It’s nice that you acknowledge that even what you regard as my “longwinded rubbish” is enlightening to you. Such candour on the web is the exception rather than the rule.

    Some people are pretty transparent so it’s not hard to work them out — people such as you for example. Still, tidiness and all that.

    Thanks once again for your feedback.

  149. .

    Seriously if Fran Barlow ever taught my kids I’d be pretty adamant in getting so much compensation that the school would be shut down and sold off to cover costs along with the principal and her never being employable again.

  150. Abu Chowdah

    Dot, if she had referred to everyone as dear, LP would have been the world’s centre for patronizing behavior. Missed opportunity, leftie losers!

  151. “Hey, can’t we agree that now – more than ever – we need ‘non-partisanship’ and ‘civility’?”

    No, you censorious liars – we’re going to put you down publicly with a stake through your heart, an axe through your neck, and high-temperature incineration of the remains. Not literally, you understand; but by the time we’re done with you, your foul, arse-backward way of running a country is going to be as dead as the fucking dodo.

  152. .

    The socialist, anti civil liberties vampire ought to be staked with four kinds of oak, decapitated, drowned in holy water, garlanded with garlic, cut up with silver knives, cremated and shot to the centre of the sun.

  153. JC

    The socialist, anti civil liberties vampire ought to be staked with four kinds of oak, decapitated, drowned in holy water, garlanded with garlic, cut up with silver knives, cremated and shot to the centre of the sun.

    I’ve basically had it with the Left, Dot. Even more than I did , after the Finkelstians came out of the sewer. This is a bare knuckle fight to the finish with them until we see total defeat. No more Mr Nice Guy. Fuck’em and their DNA.

  154. Fisky

    I’ve basically had it with the Left

    I have nothing to say to them. I do have plans for them, though.

  155. Oh come on

    Soylent Green never tasted so good!

  156. Oh come on

    That’s right, Eat The Rich Left

  157. dover_beach

    I have nothing to say to them. I do have plans for them, though.

    Mockery and derision?

  158. Alice

    “The socialist, anti civil liberties vampire ought to be staked with four kinds of oak, decapitated, drowned in holy water, garlanded with garlic, cut up with silver knives, cremated and shot to the centre of the sun.”

    Well while we all may agree that petty government regulation and government structures are in our faces – inventing ever more fines, fees, regulation and spying and ever more incursions into people’s (little lefties and little righties) lives – it would appear to me that some are more fortunate than others at getting the government out of their faces especially but not limited to financial sector fraudsters.

    Is de-regulation a user pays thing? ie who has the means to pay gets to pay the government to nick off?

    Whats with the incarceration rates going up in the United States? Oh I forgot that Corrections Incorporated gave a few big donations so pollies petty bureaucrats to change laws and oenalty times so people (read product) get to reside in their US taxpayer subsidised privatised jails longer and hey its so profitable for them if their annual report to shareholders was anything to go by.

    De-regulation for some. More regulation for others?

    LOL at JCs comment on Fran.

    I wish I was a happy Greenie but have more in common with Katter and any major party in this country is the same as the major parties in the US – wheel out the left right divide – let us all squabble and then act in concert anyway… Give most people more regulation and their favoured grafting mates who need more regulation, less.

  159. .

    Whats with the incarceration rates going up in the United States? Oh I forgot that Corrections Incorporated gave a few big donations so pollies petty bureaucrats to change laws and oenalty times so people (read product) get to reside in their US taxpayer subsidised privatised jails longer and hey its so profitable for them if their annual report to shareholders was anything to go by.

    Don’t blame me, you’re the damned fool who wants more and not less intervention in the economy. Only a naif believes that Government operated law and order and prisons don’t lobby to keep draconian drug laws etc either. You can’t blame privatisation. If we deregulated a lot of bureaucrats would be out of a sinecure. Abolishing drug laws or granting amnesty for non violent drug offenders would likely see half of operational prison staff out of a job as their “client base” disappeared.

  160. Alice

    “you’re the damned fool who wants more and not less intervention in the economy.”

    Well thats your own unique interpretation – and you can live with it.

    and your the damned fool who thinks that blindly de-regulating everyone is going to work (except in this age of “de-regulation” do you actually see de-regulation coming the way of small business and the great majority? – I damn well dont. I see it increasing and I dont like it?)

    ..and I dont think government jails go around lobbying for ever more draconian laws for the simple reason that they dont have the profits to do so, but I do think private correctional corporations do and how does that fit with your personal liberty aspirations?

    It doesnt. There is no one size, one mantra, one ideology, one silver bullet, one cure that fits all and unless lefties and righties start getting smart about the failures of narrow views on both sides …..I guess we just continue to squabble all over town at election times.
    Thats really helpful (not) because nothing useful gets done.

    yes it is a tired thing this left right war.

  161. .

    Well thats your own unique interpretation – and you can live with it.

    No it is correct.

    and your the damned fool who thinks that blindly de-regulating everyone is going to work

    It does.

    do you actually see de-regulation coming the way of small business and the great majority? – I damn well dont. I see it increasing and I dont like it?)

    You’ve never seen or worked for a going concern.

    There is no one size, one mantra, one ideology, one silver bullet, one cure that fits all

    That’s why you need to deregulate. Let everyone make the best choice for them. Not have a bureacrat choose from a variety of plans THEY have drawn up.

    Thats really helpful (not) because nothing useful gets done.

    No, you are being useless.

    I guess we just continue to squabble all over town at election times.

    Prepare to lose. Badly. Prepare for the conservatives to be invigorated by libertarianism.

  162. Alice

    And what if Im one of them and believe in more liberty for businesses but yet when large rent seeking businesses are dominating the rewards from de-regulation by demanding increasing regulation on other businesses and individuals (and a great mass of them) and you dont even notice that?

    I would say thats a definite attack on a lot of peoples liberty. I, for one am one of the disgruntled taxpayers and Im am going to read the post on that and yes I would like the great mass of taxpayers who actually pay their tax to have a greater say in parliament.

    Prepare for a surge in infighting invoking the tedious lefty righty war…

    oh…please not more of the same?

  163. duncan

    Fran is one seriously idiotic teacher.. I wouldn’t want her anywhere near my kids:

    In my experience the behaviour is common in students who feel that they are out of their depth — that they are expected tp work outside their personal comfort zone. Wrecking the lesson aids cognitive dissonance, replacing pain and angst with reward. That may help explain Jumpy‘s conduct as well.

    Jees.. do you think that maybe some of these kids are way ahead of the dross you’re teaching and are bored out of their brains?

    (.. or more likely they’re lost in the obtuse language and can’t extract anything useful).

  164. Alice

    No some kids ARE way ahead of their teachers…because some kids are bright and some teachers are just plain stupid and teachers are renowned for not recognising bright bored students from a younf age.
    Now venture into unis and you do really find some great teachers but you also find arrogant, narcissistic lazy teachers who somehow have the job of running course for uni students but think they are too “important a researcher” to answer tedious first years questions.
    Ask me – I teach in unis and some lecturers in charge are just mean and useless when it comes to teaching.
    As for Fram – I have no doubt she tongue twisted her students into total confusion and cognitive dissonance no matter unintentionally. Fran has a problem with not being able to cut the crap and get to the point.

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