Midweek Forum: April 11, 2012

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591 Responses to Midweek Forum: April 11, 2012

  1. Tiny Dancer

    Shorten is just so negative

  2. Jarrah

    “Unless you can point to a failure in logic the conclusion stands.”

    Are you serious? He says ‘must’. But then says that only applies up to a certain point, because God (by definition) doesn’t have that ‘must’ apply to it. So it isn’t actually ‘must’, but ‘mostly’ or ‘normally’ (because it has an exception). That turns what should be a logic chain into a paradox. Or a circular argument.

  3. Gab

    Bob Brown has resigned his seat in the Senate.

    Good riddance.

  4. JC

    Shorten is just so negative

    It’s Abbott’s fault.

  5. JC

    Bob Brown has resigned his seat in the Senate.

    Good riddance.

    Don’t slam the door on your way out fuckknuckle.

  6. Matt

    Bob Brown has resigned his seat in the Senate

    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

  7. Sinclair Davidson

    I have opened a thread on this.

  8. JC

    Don’t cheer for too long, their next candidate from the Greek isle of Tasmania could make repugnant Rhiannon look like Hayek.

    I’m not at all optimistic about the petulant fuckhead’s resignation because it could mean he’s losing control of the party to the Leninist and Stalinst wings and wants out. In some ways Brown was actually the moderate I reckon.

  9. dover_beach

    No, it’s about a first mover. First, as in, before all others. Not here and now.

    Still beclowning yourself, Jarrah. Open up a book on Aquinas’s First Way and acquaint yourself. You continually berate JC for not reading your comments with care and attention and yet here you continue to opine on Aquinas’s First Way without offering him the same courtesy. This might be a start, particularly p. 5.

    Sure, but it doesn’t follow from the premise. It’s not actually a conclusion at all. It’s an assumption.

    Actually, it does, and no, it isn’t.

  10. jtfsoon

    Oliver Hartwich is leaving Australia and the CIS to take up a new position in NZ. His final piece for the CIS with thoughts on Australia

    http://www.incise.org.au/2012-04-12/losing-sight-of-the-lucky-country/

  11. C.L.

    Australians unjust and stupid, says Dr Keating:

    “The government is doing the very thing that we have to do to deal with the mitigation of carbon in the atmosphere,” the former prime minister said yesterday, after receiving an honorary doctorate at Sydney’s Macquarie University.

    “You can’t hope to mitigate it unless it’s priced properly. And yet there seems to be no reward in Australia for a conscientious government doing this very tough thing.

    “This is both unjust and unwise on the part of the community.”

    Paul Keating: moron.

  12. dover_beach

    He says ‘must’. But then says that only applies up to a certain point, because God (by definition) doesn’t have that ‘must’ apply to it. So it isn’t actually ‘must’, but ‘mostly’ or ‘normally’ (because it has an exception). That turns what should be a logic chain into a paradox. Or a circular argument.

    Dear, oh dear. Less talking and more reading, Jarrah. No, he says that the premise must apply to anything moved, again, “whatever is moved, must be moved by another”. The first mover, logically, must itself be unmoved. So it remains a “must” and never becomes a “mostly” or “normally” at all. The whole point of the demonstration is to show that the first mover (Pure Act) is unlikely all other movers (combinations of act and potency) and that this follows from the premise and related concepts.

  13. Gab

    “This is both unjust and unwise on the part of the community.”

    Keating sounds like he’s five minutes away from calling all Earthians to announce the aliens have landed..

  14. JC

    Gab

    I don’t think Keating believes a word of what he’s saying. He’s gutless to come out and say what he really thinks.

    He’s just saying it to keep in good with the party, that’s all.

  15. Winston SMITH

    Total Commonwealth Government Securities
    on Issue – $239,341m consisting of:
    Treasury Bonds – $207,543m
    Treasury Indexed Bonds – $15,679m
    Treasury Notes – $16,100m
    Other Securities – $19m
    As at 13 April 2012.

    $16 Billion so far this year, and $11 Billion away from the National Credit Card Limit.
    Time to start asking Tony if he’s going to let these bastards have an extension.

  16. Oliver Hartwich writes:

    I wonder whether Australians take their good fortune too much for granted. Instead of celebrating the resources boom, Australians only wonder how they can tax it.

    How exactly do you “celebrate” a mining boom, I wonder.

    Instead of celebrating their multi-ethnic success story, Australians spend a disproportionate time discussing illegal arrivals.

    Well, he’s right there.

    Instead of appreciating its position close to booming Asia, Australians behave more and more like old Europeans.

    Not sure about that one either. We’re eating more Thai food and less schnitzel as the years pass.

  17. Token

    How exactly do you “celebrate” a mining boom, I wonder.

    Simple, ramp up the wages and number of taxes to an uneconomic level, then install a government that spends the receipts from the bevy of new taxes before they have been collected…

    Hold on…

  18. He obviously means something different. Having Gina and Clive over for dinner more often?

  19. Jarrah

    ““whatever is moved, must be moved by another”. The first mover, logically, must itself be unmoved”

    Those two contradict each other. There’s nothing ‘logical’ about it. You keep complaining that I’m not understanding Aquinas, but nothing you say shows how that is true. The simple fact is, Aquinas believed in God, and wanted to find a way to ‘prove’ His existence, and so tortured logic into giving the result he wanted, including making baseless assumptions, and trying to disguise assumptions as conclusions.

  20. JC

    Instead of celebrating their multi-ethnic success story, Australians spend a disproportionate time discussing illegal arrivals.

    Well, he’s right there.

    No he’s not. He’s a fucking liar and a general moron. Australians have a right to be concerned about issues such as porous borders and the government’s response seeing that it is the government’s prime responsibility to secure our borders and the fact that the Lying slapper said she would prior to the election.

    I’ll take it as given that undertaking is shelved right next to ” there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead”.

    Tiny Dancer is not harsh enough on you Stepford.

  21. JC

    ““whatever is moved, must be moved by another”. The first mover, logically, must itself be unmoved”

    Those two contradict each other.

    A first for an Australian blog.

    Jazzabelle methodically disproves Thomas Aquinas. The obvious conclusion is that Jazzabelle is a superior thinker to Tom. What a day for Ozblogdom.

  22. C.L.

    This week’s indicted Democrat:

    Former Missouri governor admits guilt in campaign contributions case.

    Former Missouri Gov. Roger Wilson has pleaded guilty this afternoon in connection with indictments late Wednesday on allegations of laundering campaign contributions to the Missouri Democratic Party through a St. Louis law firm.

  23. JC

    I think they’ve become a nation of stepfords from Brisbane.

  24. jtfsoon

    there’s also this

    http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_sweden_s_new_gender_neutral_pronoun_causes_controversy_.html

    One Swedish school got rid of its toy cars because boys “gender-coded” them and ascribed the cars higher status than other toys. Another preschool removed “free playtime” from its schedule because, as a pedagogue at the school put it, when children play freely “stereotypical gender patterns are born and cemented. In free play there is hierarchy, exclusion, and the seed to bullying.

    It’s like an entire country was brainwashed by Larvatus Prodeo

  25. badm0f0

    What the hell happened to the Vikings?

    They swapped pillage for ready-to-assemble furnishings and eco-friendly designer knick-knacks.

  26. Gab

    Many preschools have hired “gender pedagogues” to help staff identify language and behaviour that risk reinforcing stereotypes, while at the taxpayer-funded Egalia preschool in Stockholm, staff avoid using words such as “him” or “her” and address the 33 children as “friends” rather than girls and boys.

    Oh dear. “Him” and “her” are stereotypes?

  27. JC

    Bad news for Odumbo

    Rasmussen also has them 45 45.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/12/fox-news-poll-romney-edges-obama-as-approval-president-drops/

    No wonder Odumbo is picking on Romney’s wife.

  28. Token

    It’s like an entire country was brainwashed by Larvatus Prodeo

    Is there any wonder Julian Assange found it so easy to score in Sweden. He is an alpha male when compared to the locals.

  29. This blog badly needs some Swedish influence. Off to the sauna, the lot of you.

  30. Token

    True extent of our weak asylum laws revealed
    Ray speaks with an immigration whistleblower and Opposition Immigration Spokesman Scott Morrison

    Ray Hadley talks to caller Robert about the new asylym seeker laws that took effect from 23 March.

    This has excluded serious crimes as a reason to exclude applicants.

    Fascinating listening as we should expect a rush once news gets out overseas how easy the new rules are.

  31. Rafe

    Gerard Henderson’s Media Watchdog is on the street, don’t miss Robert Mannne’s ride to Canberra to meet Malcolm.

  32. Gab

    Islamic ‘Adult Breastfeeding’ Fatwas Return

    * Sheikh Nazim Misbahi, head of the Fatwa Committee of the Islamic Heritage Revival Society in Kuwait, supports the decree, agreeing that “it is not forbidden [haram] for a man to breastfeed from his wife.”

    * Sheikh Bassam al-Shatti, a Sharia professor, specifies: “If the husband deliberately sucks to obtain milk from the breast of his wife, this is forbidden; however, if it happens unintentionally during foreplay with his wife, then there is no problem—though it is disliked according to the four schools” of Sharia.

    * Sheikh Sa’d al-Anzi stressed that “if the man, while being intimate with his wife, sucks her nipples, it is nothing, considered foreplay; but if the milk reaches his mouth, he should spit out—even if goes down in his stomach,” i.e., vomit.

    Consider for a moment the significance of these Islamic edicts: whether women “breastfeeding” coworkers (Egyptian fatwa, 2007), whether men drinking female breast-milk in a cup (Saudi fatwa, 2010), or whether Kuwaiti minutiae concerning bedroom foreplay—all these fatwas are reminders of the inescapable strictures of Sharia law; while these sheikhs offers various circumstances and interpretations concerning “adult breastfeeding,” they are all confined to the words of the prophet of Islam.

    This is precisely why, despite all the claims that Islam is perpetually being “misunderstood”—by terrorists, by “Islamophobes”—understanding what Islam commands and forbids is actually quite a simple matter: along with the Koran, determine what the prophet said in canonical hadiths.

    It is, after all, no coincidence that the above mentioned Kuwaitis, like Sheikh Misbahi, were members of the delegation that recently went to ask Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti about Islam’s position on churches in the Arabian Peninsula: the same source that compelled the Grand Mufti to declare that all churches must be destroyed, is the same source that advocates “adult breastfeeding”: Muhammad and his teachings. All very straightforward, really.

  33. Token

    Gab, the Religion of Peace is very complex.

  34. Gab

    I’m just glad I don’t work in Egypt, Token.

  35. Peter Patton

    Sweden also passed a law making it an offence to leave the toilet seat up.

  36. Tal

    Have you read Ask the Imam Gab? It’s a hoot

  37. Gab

    I hadn’t seen it, Tal. Just had a peek – is it for real? Wow. Just wow.

  38. Sinclair Davidson

    Gab – you’re doing this to provoke Steve?

  39. Gab

    I was just amazed at the practices, Sinclair. Can you imagine it? Females having to breastfeed their male colleagues so that they can work together without the female needing to cover her hair?

    Provoke Steve? Hadn’t thought of it, but now that you mention it, an added bonus.

  40. John Mc

    Females having to breastfeed their male colleagues so that they can work together without the female needing to cover her hair?

    Yeah, I mean, that seems perfectly logical. Why would anyone question it?

  41. Jarrah

    “Jazzabelle”

    Considering there is a commenter called Jazza, and a commenter called Anabelle, you’ll probably have to come up with a different schoolyard-bully putdown, you cantankerous syphilitic dullard.

  42. Sinclair Davidson

    Can I imagine being breastfed? :)

    Seriously though I can’t imagine too much of it actually going on. I suspect you’ll find many strange practices and beliefs in most religions that simply get ignored and atrophy over time.

  43. Infidel Tiger

    you cantankerous syphilitic dullard.

    Nice!

    You two need to have a patch up lunch. JC can pay since you are uni student.

  44. Gab

    Seriously though I can’t imagine too much of it actually going on

    I suspect you are correct. But I’ll consult “Ask the Imam” site to be certain. :)

  45. JC

    Considering there is a commenter called Jazza, and a commenter called Anabelle, you’ll probably have to come up with a different schoolyard-bully putdown, you cantankerous syphilitic dullard.

    Not slightly over the top there? And the answer is no, it won’t be changing, jazzabelle, you lopsided chip on your shoulder moron.

    I’m wondering if you have that stuff sorted out where you peddling Cuba’s healthcare was better than US, you dickhead jazzabelle?

    I’ve noticed you’re slowly bringing this to a personal level in the sense that you have introduced stuff like what you think is my age as a result of meeting. i suggest you ought to stop it now as you’ll end up losing and just stick to stuff brought up on the blog.

  46. JC

    I never get angry IT. Ever. I escalate until the other side drops out. Jazzabelle has been broken before and turned into the furry little house pet. It can be done again. One more age reference (I really don’t give a shit about) and Jazzabelle will be put back in his proper place.

    It’s scientifically proven that lefties never win and generally leave here mentally damaged, some permanently.

  47. There is no doubt at all that JC has been OTT cranky the last day or two.

    Prune juice, JC. Try prune juice.

  48. Jc

    Stepford

    I think I’ve been pretty even keel, especially with you. I’ve been just as harsh, condescending and loathing as pretty much all the time.

  49. Jarrah

    “One more age reference (I really don’t give a shit about) ”

    If you don’t give a shit about it, why are you all het up about it?

    So just shut up, old man.

  50. Jc

    Jazzabelle

    I’m not in the least het up, as you suggest dickhaed. You were the one that went all nasty out of the blue with that bit of crap about why I shouldn’t call you jazzabelle and then adding that turgid stuff.

    Youre a clown at times jazzabelle.

  51. Jarrah

    “You were the one that went all nasty out of the blue”

    The irony, IT BURNS.

  52. JC

    Well buy some burn cream then, Jazzabelle.

    Look doofus, you start a debate about US healthcare citing some ridiculous stat that the US is 37th in the world after Croatia.

    You demonstrate extreme levels of self-absorption bordering on stupid by suggesting to Dover that you have somehow refuted a noted scholar’s comments about matters that can’t be ever proven.

    And we never get an apology from you for gross level of stupidity.

    You demand not to be called jazzabelle and then suggest you don’t really care if it escalates.

    You’re really pathetic.

  53. candy

    “Sweden also passed a law making it an offence to leave the toilet seat up.”

    well that’s just ridulous
    but is’a shock to the system to sit down on the toilet without noticing the seat is up and just about fall into the stupid bowl.

  54. Jarrah

    “is’a shock to the system to sit down on the toilet without noticing the seat is up”

    What is it with you women? Do you approach the toilet with your eyes closed or something?

    “You’re really pathetic.”

    Third-degree irony burns now.

  55. kae

    Because I respect the guy immensely and I’m sick to death of the lobotomised leftist trolls (free range faeces flinging howler monkeys™) assuming they own the place.

    Rabz, they do.

  56. Rabz

    kae,

    Not any more. The ‘Reconquista‘ has commenced…

  57. Infidel Tiger

    What is it with you women? Do you approach the toilet with your eyes closed or something?

    You need to reverse the argument on women who try this baloney and start complaining that they leave the seat down. You’ll sleep on the couch for a while, but still.

  58. Tal

    I’ve never sat on the bowl is it common?

  59. candy

    “I’ve never sat on the bowl is it common?”

    it’s in the bowl if you don’t expect it. a cold and swallowing type of weird feeling.

  60. Rabz

    it’s in the bowl if you don’t expect it.

    Only someone with a very small/taut backside would be likely to experience that feeling.

    You hinting at the ‘primeness’ of your rump again, candy?

  61. dover_beach

    ““whatever is moved, must be moved by another”. The first mover, logically, must itself be unmoved”

    Those two contradict each other.

    I see you’re just going to brazen it out. There isn’t any contradiction, certainly none you’ve put forward.

    You keep complaining that I’m not understanding Aquinas, but nothing you say shows how that is true.

    I’ve already demonstrated you’ve misunderstood Aquinas, for instance, when you suggested “he assumes there is no infinity” (and elsewhere where you conflate his Fifth Way as no different to an ID argument). But that would be too kind; to misunderstand someone’s work suggests that you’ve actually read their work and you’ve yet to demonstrate this. It would be more accurate to say that you’ve assumed he “he assumed there is no infinity” (and assumed that his Fifth Way was no different to an ID argument).

    The simple fact is, Aquinas believed in God, and wanted to find a way to ‘prove’ His existence, and so tortured logic into giving the result he wanted, including making baseless assumptions, and trying to disguise assumptions as conclusions.

    Not at all; you’re simply cheering yourself up here. It’s instructive, for instance, that Aquinas does not include an argument like Anselm’s ontological argument as one of his Five proofs. Certainly this suggests that he is not the sort of person to “torture logic” in order to simply find a way to prove His existence (This is not to say that Anselm “tortures logic”, it is merely to say that Aquinas thought the argument in some way inadequate and thus better set aside). And its particularly instructive that you shamelessly accuse him, not merely of making baseless assumptions, but of disingenuously presenting assumptions as conclusions.

  62. candy

    “You hinting at the ‘primeness’ of your rump again, candy?”

    Yes dear Rabz, my rump and i are quite cheerful as usual.

  63. Tal

    Well I cherish my ignorance on that subject

  64. Infidel Tiger

    It’s Friday night fashion time – Quite fetching.

  65. C.L.

    Speaking of countries where oestrogen has poisoned the male population…

    Canadian police let burglar off, arrest restauranteur for throwing spices at him.

    A portly and obviously useless little female police chieftain then also arrests a mannequin for being “inappropriately” naked.

    For real: Video.

  66. Infidel Tiger

    How can a country like Canada have ice hockey as its national sport? Maybe it’s a release from acting like complete girly men the rest of the week.

  67. Rabz

    It’s Friday night fashion time

    How did you miss this pulchritude?

    Disclaimer – I am generally not a fan of blondes, despite at least half of my goilfriends (and most recent) being just that…

  68. Peter Patton

    candy

    well that’s just ridulous
    but is’a shock to the system to sit down on the toilet without noticing the seat is up and just about fall into the stupid bowl.

    Oh god, that takes me back to living in shared houses, and endless arguments over toilet seats! :)

  69. A portly and obviously useless little female police chieftain…

    “That’s not APPROPRIATE!

    The call of the fat fugly perpetually-outraged PC leftoid.

  70. “Sweden also passed a law making it an offence to leave the toilet seat up.”

    South Park had an episode on this important issue recently…

  71. I wonder if I could go a whole day with my only three responses to anything being either

    (1) No you’re lying

    (2) That’s not APPROPRIATE

    or

    (3) Quite so

    I may try it this weekend.

  72. I may try it this weekend.

    No, you’re lying.

  73. A quick ask from Legal Insurrection’s Professor Jacobson: Can someone provide me with a link to Obama’s statement about the crime and murder spree in Chicago?

    I’m not saying Obama hasn’t made a statement recently about the crime and murder spree in Chicago.

    Murders are up 60% in the past three months, and there has been a daily rampage of shootings, including 7 shot overnight last night, and a mother and baby girl in their home the day before.

    I’m not saying Obama hasn’t issued a statement about the crime and murder spree in Chicago, it’s just that Google News searches for “Obama murder Chicago,” “Obama killings Chicago,” “Obama homicides Chicago” and “Obama shootings Chicago“ don’t turn up anything, at least not recently. A search of Whitehouse.gov also turned up nothing.

    Again, I’m not saying Obama hasn’t issued a statement about the crime and murder spree in Chicago, but if he did, the media has been pretty quiet about it.

    So would someone help out a blogger who is short of time and needs a quick link.

  74. kae

    Dog, Fleeced, that’s not APPROPRIATE!

  75. kae

    I have been unfortunate to sit on the naked porcelain – usually I’ve forgotten that the loo is soaking and raced in (usually in the dark) and been caught. It’s not pleasant, especially in winter.

    Though it’s equally annoying to find someone has put the lid down in a house where the lid is never put down (in the ensuite), and in the dark…

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I have been unfortunate to sit on the naked porcelain

    Agree Candy and Kae, this is a sinking feeling.

    But ladies, don’t you mostly just ‘hovver’ in unknown situations? Knickers down, hold onto them around the knees, tilt the backside backwards over the bowl, and exercise the thighs in a paragon of balance and tinkling accomplishment. I think there are research studies showing that this is what mostly happens outside the home. In Turkey recently, and re-acquainted with the the squatting type, I grant that they allow for greater stability, but there is a much more concerning possibility of contamination and dropping the knickers from around the ankles and into the abyss.

  77. Rabz

    Knickers down, hold onto them around the knees, tilt the backside backwards over the bowl, and exercise the thighs in a paragon of balance…

    Lizzie!

  78. Peter Patton

    Knickers down, hold onto them around the knees, tilt the backside backwards over the bowl, and exercise the thighs in a paragon of balance…

    Lizzie, let me guess. You’ve been listening to Beethoven’s Violin Concerto again! :)

  79. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Sorry Rabz. It is Ladies Day for ladies eyes only at the end of this Forum. Where is the next half-week’s worth? Sinclair is late.

  80. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    You guys! This is just how we do it, part of our daily existence. We do not have those convenient little spouts… and this is the real meaning of penis envy.

  81. Rabz

    You guys!

    Stop it, you temptress – this is a public forum!

  82. kae

    Lizzie
    Hovering is the way you don’t realise the lid is shut until you feel splashback.
    Annoying as it’s usually the middle of the night.
    As I get older hovering is harder.
    Though public toilets are very conducive to hovering.

    (Boy’s don’t get it, hovering I mean. Though in all my years I still haven’t worked out why it is that men are equipped with a spout and still manage to miss and get the seat and drip on the floor.)

  83. SteveC

    I think I’ve been pretty even keel, especially with you. I’ve been just as harsh, condescending and loathingsome as pretty much all the time

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