Open Forum: June 2, 2012 at Catallaxy Files

Open Forum: June 2, 2012

886 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

June 1st, 2012 at 3:26 pm

Posted in Open Forum

886 Responses to 'Open Forum: June 2, 2012'

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Firsties

Ooh Honey Honey

1 Jun 12 at 3:27 pm
Second!

Fisky

1 Jun 12 at 3:31 pm
America Lost 129,000 Millionaires in 2011

America’s millionaire population declined last year for the first time since the financial crisis, according to a new report.

The population of U.S. millionaire households (households with investible assets of $1 million or more) fell to 5,134,000 from 5,263,000 in 2011, according to The Boston Consulting Group’s Global Wealth study.

Total private wealth in North America fell by 0.9 percent, to $38 trillion.

The ultra-rich were the largest losers in dollar terms. Households in North America with investible assets of more than $100 million saw their wealth decline 2.4 percent. Their population declined slightly to 2,928 from 2,989.

The main reason for all this wealth loss? Stocks.

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 3:33 pm
A nice relaxing Friday drink.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 3:34 pm
The (UK)Independent: The Cable News Nightmare: CNN (and Piers Morgan) in audience crisis

Viewers are turning off in droves, lured by brash rivals and popularity of internet news sources

Stories aren’t the only thing that high-profile studio anchors at CNN apparently know how to break. Judging by the latest TV ratings, they also seem to be uncannily successful at destroying the loyalty of viewers.

Figures from ratings agency Nielsen show that America’s most famous rolling news brand has just experienced its worst month for almost 20 years, parting company with more than 50 per cent of its audience in 12 months.

The development follows years of unrelenting decline for the network, which pioneered 24-hour news in the 1980s, and was for years the top-rated news channel. It has in recent years suffered intense competition from Fox News and MSNBC, which both now outperform it in almost every time slot.

LOL

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 3:36 pm
isn’t the general loss of ‘pettifogging’ a sad thing for the English language?

I have tried to keep alive the use of the words ‘mountebank’ and ‘bamboozle’

Not enough is made of prig; the opportunity for use abounds on the cat.

Peter Patton

1 Jun 12 at 3:40 pm
Doomlord declares an end to the first day of winter.

He owns the date. My browser is very happy about that.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

1 Jun 12 at 3:42 pm
See how quick it is now!!!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

1 Jun 12 at 3:42 pm
Come on in everybody, the water is fine!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

1 Jun 12 at 3:43 pm
Ninth!

Abu Chowdah

1 Jun 12 at 3:43 pm
America Lost 129,000 Millionaires in 2011

To lose one millionaire, Mr. Obama, may be regarded as a misfortune. To lose 129,000 looks like carelessness.

Splatacrobat

1 Jun 12 at 3:47 pm
For those of you who missed it on the old thread…Rabz brings us

Hi Alan

Token

1 Jun 12 at 3:48 pm
Military Moms Breastfeeding in Uniform Stir Controversy

Two photo of hot momma soldiers in the story would bring me to attent.. HUT!

Scott suggests that the issue might have less to do with the uniform and more to do with our own internal conflicts. “I think a lot of people think that you can’t be a mom and be a soldier,” she says. “This is not something that’s out of norm for them. They breastfeed in uniform all the time — it’s just not something that’s usually captured on film.”

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 3:49 pm
I don’t know about CNN in the US, but when I had Foxtel, the Australian version was just as dull as dishwater. I just never saw anything worth watching on it. (Or actually, I might have seen Dick Quest – the guy arrested in Central Park in highly unusual circumstances – do one show on religion.)

BBC News wasn’t great, and Skynews was very repetitive, but both had much more to watch than CNN.

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 3:50 pm
The juxtaposition is unintentionally amusing

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/05/31/syria_is_not_a_problem_from_hell

Syria Is Not a Problem from Hell
But if we don’t act quickly, it will be.
BY ANNE-MARIE SLAUGHTER

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 3:50 pm
Thanks, Tokes!

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 3:52 pm
I think we should attack Syria. We should get rid of these regimes on the cheap, not in Iraq style conflicts.

.

1 Jun 12 at 3:54 pm
The Jerusalem Post: ‘Israel’s creation worst catastrophe to hit world’

Head of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood Badie reminds followers of movement’s “sacrifices” in efforts to destroy the Jewish state.

“On this day, like every year, the Arab and Islamic nations remember the worst catastrophe ever to befall the peoples of the world,” Badie wrote in the text, translated by The Jerusalem Post. “We demand the international community rectify the historic injustice [of 1948] and pressure the government of the Zionist entity to withdraw from the land of Palestine.”

The statement portrays the Arab revolts of the last 18 months as part of an inexorable process to “liberate” land now in the State of Israel.

“We have toppled the most repressive regimes with purpose and determination,” Badie wrote. “We have begun the era of liberation of all peoples, first of all the Palestinian people, [suffering from] the worst occupation known to man – the Zionist occupation.”

Uriya Shavit, a lecturer in Tel Aviv University’s Department for Arabic and Islamic Studies, said those acquainted with the Brotherhood’s history will find the message unsurprising.

Thank God for twitter and the ‘young brave people’ of the Arab spring, eh?

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 3:55 pm
I expected better from you, dot.

Read this

Frankly I don’t know why we should go all sentimental about Syria just because *children have been killed*. Children will be killed and worse if the tide goes the other way and religious hicks overrun the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/27/magazine/the-syria-paradox.html?_r=2

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 3:57 pm
So the Syrian Free Army are controlled by the MB or not?

Egypt are probably going to elect the old PM and Airforce General as their President.

Don’t be scared.

.

1 Jun 12 at 3:58 pm
See how quick it is now!!!

That isn’t what you said before.

Sinclair Davidson

1 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
SOON

It actually looks like it might turn into a decade long civil war with no winner.

Can you tell me if the SFA (heh) etc are MB aligned or not? I dunno.

.

1 Jun 12 at 4:00 pm
Thank God for twitter and the ‘young brave people’ of the Arab spring, eh?

Another Obama success story.

Irving J

1 Jun 12 at 4:00 pm
Amazing that 1 billion Muslims are so obsessed with a country smaller than New Jersey.

It’s the Middle East’s verison of AbbottAbbottAbbott.

Feral Abacus

1 Jun 12 at 4:00 pm
there are conflicting reports. they may not be controlled by the MB but there are other nasties.

I don’t know.

I still prefer a secular through brutal westernised dictator in charge.

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:01 pm
Twenty-sixth!

Gab

1 Jun 12 at 4:02 pm
it is revealing though that the Syrian urban middle class aren’t enthusiastic about the rebels

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:03 pm
We need a brutal westernised dictator in Australia.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 4:03 pm
A handbag, Mr. Worthing?

Peter Patton

1 Jun 12 at 4:04 pm
it is revealing though that the Syrian urban middle class aren’t enthusiastic about the rebels

Not to be a smart arse but isn’t this where the SS and other middle level agents of the Nazis were recruited from?

.

1 Jun 12 at 4:06 pm
Actually Gab you were comment #494925.
Who will be magic #500,000?

( everyone now looking at top of screen, hehee. )

Jumpnmcar

1 Jun 12 at 4:07 pm
Who cares, dot?

Sunni fundamentalist hicks vs a dictatorship made up of people considered heretics by other Muslims who have an interest in a forced cosmopolitan tolerance in return for a cut

take your pick

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:09 pm
We need a brutal westernised dictator in Australia.

stevefb™ has the psychological profile that would fit the bill

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 4:10 pm
Jeebus. I was just looking to see if the Calvin Coolidge biography had been released on Kindle. Instead i found My Horny Indian Wife by Calvin Coolidge.

I bought it any way.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 4:12 pm
anyway I’m not advocating we fight alongside Asaad,

just stay out of the fucking mess and continue as before.

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
Thanks, Tokes!

It is worth watching for the shirt and glasses, if not for the great dialogue

Token

1 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
may not be controlled by the MB but there are other nasties

Exactly, it is imperative according to islam for muslims to gain political control, doesn’t matter where they are or how they do it. Even if it takes 50 years they will breed like flies and work towards it.

Obama has let the genie out of the bottle and it ain’t a benevolent genie, either they are idiots or that was the plan all along. Like all socialist crap the distinction between deliberate and accidental vandalism becomes obscure and irrelevant.

Irving J

1 Jun 12 at 4:18 pm
this is quite funny – thanks to CFact
Morano and Monckton attempting to engage Heartland protestors in debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-fEvtXMag&feature=youtube_gdata_player
why do you believe in AGW
answer from 1 – because Jesus told me

val majkus

1 Jun 12 at 4:19 pm
Assad is a prick, but he is sorta westernized and certainly not a religious nut ball. And anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.

Jc

1 Jun 12 at 4:20 pm
funny and sad too

val majkus

1 Jun 12 at 4:21 pm
I don’t know about the demonstrators but I really think the SFA are good guys.

.

1 Jun 12 at 4:22 pm
anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.

As usual JC zeroes in on the crux of the matter.

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:23 pm
I have tried to keep alive the use of the words ‘mountebank’ and ‘bamboozle’

MWD this week notes Robert Fisk is rather fond of the word mountebank as well.

Robert Fisk described Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton as “mountebanks and liars”.

Token

1 Jun 12 at 4:24 pm
Jason is probably right but I see no harm in being opportunistic if the right opportunity presents itself.

.

1 Jun 12 at 4:24 pm
On Scott Walker, the man who faced the hurricane and is still standing.

The serious-minded legislators elected in 2010 recognized that business as usual was ruining the state. Wisconsin’s business climate was worsening. Jobs were leaving. Budget deficits were growing.

The leaders stepped up and adopted reforms they knew might not be popular at first, but would — over time — put the state on sound fiscal footing. Facing serious fiscal challenges, they made the hard decisions and took the tough votes. So far, it looks like they were right.

Is Barry O’Farrell cut from the same cloth as Scott Walker? Ted Bailleu?

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 4:25 pm
WTF is Homer blubbering on about

JB Cairns on June 1, 2012 at 12:19 pm said:

er no it doesn’t.

Using the better labour market data and of course the RBA underlying inflation data we are at the lowest we have seen.

gosh Fyodor you can’t even remember saying at this blog the elephant in the room about 2008 was the cut in rates.

I said at the time you made that stupid statement it would mean the shortest lag in the history of the world.

Why people with a mortgage would splurge out in only two months you never fully explained

JB Cairns on June 1, 2012 at 1:38 pm said:

up to the 70s that is when there is no RBA underlying rate only a headline CPI to work with.

kinds misses the point , just like your vacuous argument!

your stupidity is all over the place. you said it not me and here .

Gee your memory loss is always convenient

anmyone else miss the guy?

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:25 pm
anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.

She’ll be torn limb from limb by those maniacs one day.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 4:26 pm
Dot

How does anyone know who is planting the bombs and shit. Everything gets blamed on Assad, but after all the Paliwood bullshit that goes on in that region you really don’t know.

Assad is not lke saddam I think. I’m not at all sure a change in government is in western interests, so we just stay the hell out of it.

And wtf is the undertaker getting involved for.

Jc

1 Jun 12 at 4:27 pm
Jason,

minty is declaring that Abbot Abbot Abbot will gift the Pilbara to Chinese miners and Gina Rinehart on the other thread.

I actually do miss Homer now.

.

1 Jun 12 at 4:28 pm
Assad is a prick, but he is sorta westernized and certainly not a religious nut ball. And anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.

Thirty two dead children were shot at point blank range JC.
and in a separate incident:

In the city of Daraa, schoolchildren were detained and tortured for scrawling graffiti expressing opposition to President Bashar al-Assad.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 4:29 pm
Adam, far worse shit will happen once the muzzie bros get a whiff of power.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 4:31 pm
anyone else miss the guy?

Honestly , only about a month after I haven’t read him. The minute I set eyes on any of his swill I start getting annoyed at him and the perversity of free Ed. No parent in his right mind would have paid for it.

Jc

1 Jun 12 at 4:31 pm
anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.

Does that include Adolf’s piece of ass ?

Splatacrobat

1 Jun 12 at 4:32 pm
what are you talking about, splat?

Adolf was a pervert who was shacking up with his own niece.

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:33 pm
Time for the obligitory 5 minute hate over at the ABC…

Unemployed sidelined in debate over guest workers

The comments are a scream.. I left one but it was apparently moderated out.. no swaeing or abuse, down the memory hole.

Heres my pick for comment of the day.
Angry :

Why should I have to work 12 hour shifts in extreme heat?

They’re OUR minerals, not the fat cat mining billionaires.

It’s about time I got my share.

Up the workers!!

You couldnt make it up.

thefrollickingmole

1 Jun 12 at 4:38 pm
Amazing that 1 billion Muslims are so obsessed with a country smaller than New Jersey.

Not to mention several million deraged leftists in the West.

papachango

1 Jun 12 at 4:41 pm
dot has calmed down. Must have had his afternoon hit of a 1l Coke.

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 4:41 pm
Adam, far worse shit will happen once the muzzie bros get a whiff of power

Maybe. But he’s the one in power now and he’s a monster. He’s gotta go. And that hot wife of his? She’s the best that money can buy.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 4:42 pm
Must have had his afternoon hit of a 1l Coke.

Maybe…

…but as he is an adult, maybe he didn’t need the threat of prison to chose not to.

Token

1 Jun 12 at 4:44 pm
Amazing that 1 billion Muslims are so obsessed with a country smaller than New Jersey.

Whereas Syria, where they execute children, is a big yawn.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 4:45 pm
Steve, as a nanny-state loving nancy boy, do you feel that government health/safety/scare programs are personally useful for you, or that they are primarily for others?

Answer the fucking question or tomorrow you’ll write out Wealth of Nations in Latin.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 4:47 pm
He is a monster. But what to do?

one of two things:

a) seal the borders and let them sort it out themselves – monster versus fundies. Ya never know – liberal democracy may emerge.

b) invade, occupy and colonise – not of this Iraq crap about helping them to build a new consititution based on sharia law.

Given how the rest of the Muslim world would react to b) I’d go a) – though it is distressing when you hear of the slaughter that happens

papachango

1 Jun 12 at 4:49 pm
That’s kind of a vague question, IT. I do, for example, actually look at the safety card in the pocket in front of me whenever I fly. And work out which is the nearest exit and try to count the number of rows to it. I like to wear a leather jacket too, as I consider them likely to be more fireproof, and would never fly in other than good footwear, but not of a kind which I can envisage being too heavy if I was floating in water.

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 4:50 pm
If you want to go on about the children, Adam, think of the schoolgirls having acid thrown on them in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile, the Russian church opposes Syrian intervention for good reason

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/world/europe/russian-church-opposes-syrian-intervention.html

jtfsoon

1 Jun 12 at 4:52 pm
I noticed a throw away reference to the fact the Russians sell a shite load of weapons nad its navy can use the Syrian ports on the Mediterrainean

…its longtime partner and last firm foothold in the Middle East.

Token

1 Jun 12 at 4:58 pm
Liar does way too much ‘envisaging’ for starters.

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 5:03 pm
and would never fly in other than good footwear, but not of a kind which I can envisage being too heavy if I was floating in water.

Seriously – forget about all this ‘in the event of a water landing’ crap. In the event of a water landing you will be toast – the plane will break up on impact and goodnight irene.

Yeah, yeah, i know – that guy on the Hudson river, but that was the one in a thousand execption. he’d just taken off so didn’t have the massive airspeed you normally would, he was lucky it was a dead calm day on a relatively protected bit of river, and he was a damn good pilot to boot.

papachango

1 Jun 12 at 5:03 pm
Splat

It was a throw away line so no need to go all Adolph on me.

However the reality is that there are no angels in the shithole part of the world excepting Israel of course.

As I said we don’t really know who is setting off all the explosions and killing people and we certainly don’t know who the other sides are.

Take your pick.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:05 pm
If you want to go on about the children, Adam, think of the schoolgirls having acid thrown on them in Afghanistan.

Are you serious? Crimes in far away Afghanistan make Assad less of a monster? The fate of schoolchildren in another country somehow excuses him?

Meanwhile, the Russian church opposes Syrian intervention for good reasonz

Well, they have a reason, whether it’s “good” is another question.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 5:08 pm
jtfsoon

Depressing but probably accurate, Islam needs to see minorities subjigated, not just citizens.

thefrollickingmole

1 Jun 12 at 5:08 pm
Adam

How do you know all Assad’s side is responsible for all the killing going on? How are you certain when there have been strong suspicions the other side is doing it to garner sympathy from the rest of the world.

And quite frankly out of a religious nutballs or Assad, Assad wins hands down in my book.

Here’s the other reason I am deeply suspicious.

Assad was a western trained doctor and lived a decent part of his life in London. His wife is western to all intents and purposes who worked as an I-banker at JPMorgan. Now I’m not suggesting he/they can’t be be thorough monsters, but there’s never been any evidence of that say like the Gaf’s or saddam’s kids that he was off his head with power. He seemed pretty western to me in some ways.

Now he’s no Lincoln but he’s no Saddam or the Gaf either. We need to tread carefully here not like the undertaker Bob Carr is doing. That’s all I’m saying.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:15 pm
For 10 points, Who founded the Muslim Brotherhood?

And for 50 points, What was his/her (just kidding) occupation ?

Timing from…now!!. tick tick t….

Jumpnmcar

1 Jun 12 at 5:18 pm
Yep I know it is that lunatic from AQ who was also Bin Laden’s number two and now is number one.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:22 pm
For 20 points, what was the religion of Mohammed’s first wife (the older, wealthy woman)?

coz

1 Jun 12 at 5:26 pm
That isn’t what you said before.

True, Doomlord. But if I am the one in a hurry, it is an entirely different matter.

Anyway, it was Steve we are talking about here. He is his own problem.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

1 Jun 12 at 5:28 pm
People are very selective when they prate about resources being precious because they’re finite.
Well here’s another often over-looked, precious, finite resource, that each of us must allocate as wisely as we can: the shit we give about child welfare.
I cannot find it in me to get all serious about deaths in foreign lands when I think about layers of perverse policy and ideology that keep indigenous children illiterate, abused and riddled with STDs right here in our country.
Fuck the Middle East.

Ooh Honey Honey

1 Jun 12 at 5:31 pm
Jason. You have been taken in by the russians. They are the major arms supplier and have a naval port there.

If we fuck the mid east, I wanna say fuck russia as well.

.

1 Jun 12 at 5:33 pm
What the fuck is going on in the US.

Morgan State Univ. Student Charged With 1st-Degree Murder In Cannibalism Case

Why are people eating other people?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/05/31/man-denied-bail-after-dismembered-body-parts-found-in-home/

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:41 pm
A tribute to bath salts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-mLIdLZZeI

.

1 Jun 12 at 5:44 pm
You can’t presume it’s voluntary, maybe someone slipped something in a drink, nomesayin.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 5:47 pm
Keep it doing it Democrats. Keep saying this exact same thing.

Maybe he’s not running for the presidency of the United States, maybe he’s running for the presidency of ‘Caucasia-stan’ or some place that doesn’t have anyone of color in it,” MSNBC contributor Karen Hunter said, referring to a mock-country made up entirely of caucasians.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/05/31/msnbc_contributor_is_romney_running_for_presidency_of_caucasia-stan.html

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:50 pm
lol.. it was the bath salts, Dot. This time too.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 5:52 pm
America sort of is Caucasia-stan after Europe. 72.4% white.

Maybe the DNC think he’s running for PM of Canada.

.

1 Jun 12 at 5:53 pm
Hey! Let’s introduce some more regukatory fascism!

ONLINE shoppers face “severe” penalties if they are caught taking advantage of loopholes to avoid paying tax on foreign goods.

Overseas retailers are offering Australian buyers fake invoices so that purchases appear to cost less than the $1000 threshold in order to avoid paying GST and import duties.

But under the customs act, shoppers face fines of up to $110,000 if they are caught undervaluing goods.

Infidel Tiger

1 Jun 12 at 5:55 pm
Bwahahahahaha!

Pickering’s in fine form.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 6:06 pm
JamesK, so the Communist News Network is dying?

I’m so sad I could just about party for the rest of the night.

JC – on Syria the choice is between bad, worse and very worst. The ‘bad’ outcome is that the regime survives and Syria stays a standard authoritarian Arab state.

The ‘worse’ outcome is that the regime does not survive and becomes a totalitarian theocracy which brutally oppresses hundreds of thousands of Maronites, Melkites, Chaldean and Assyrian Christians, as well as slaughtering tens of thousands of the Alawite muslim minority.

The ‘very worst’ outcome is the one the west’s leftards are eagerly promoting. That the regime does not survive, and the country becomes a dystopian nightmare like Somalia is and Libya is becoming, broken up, with armed gangs and warlords running a shifting mosaic of petty fiefdoms, with endless communal violence and massive bloodletting.

We will see.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 6:20 pm
A tribute to bath salts:

Bath salts are just the start DOT. All around the world people are designing drugs of much greater potency that will make ice and crack seem like ice cream. We know so much more now, right down to the particular set of atoms in a huge molecule which are crucial to a receptor-ligand interaction thereby allowing the creation of much more potent drugs. This is why I am against a complete lift on prohibition. Some drugs for sure but realistically when we are now at the stage of designing drugs will incredible psychoactive potential(eg. Hu211 has x100 affinity for CB1 than THC). Hell, even ensuring correct chirality alone can very much increase drug potency.

John H.

1 Jun 12 at 6:25 pm
Who knows what’s going on in Syria. I wouldn’t be surprised if the free Syrian Army are behind the massacres, just like the Kosovars fitted up the Serbs in Kosovo. Whatever comes after al Saad will be worse than what is there now.
The unpleasant truth is that crazy is the default setting in the Arab Islamic world. They can’t be helped, and they will resent us for trying and then blame us for everything that goes wrong afterwards. They aren’t worth the effort, we should leave them to kill each other.

John Comnenus

1 Jun 12 at 6:32 pm
They aren’t worth the effort, we should leave them to kill each other

Exactly, just ensure no sect of this cult ever comes out on top

Irving J

1 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
The ‘very worst’ outcome is the one the west’s leftards are eagerly promoting. That the regime does not survive, and the country becomes a dystopian nightmare like Somalia is

Nobody is promoting that outcome, “leftards” or anyone else. They are promoting the removal of a despicable, evil autocracy. You, on the other hand, are promoting said autocracy, apologising for it, and offering hypotheticals as fact.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 6:48 pm
how many more children will be executed in their beds in Syria before it is decided who is doing it and what to do. a few thousand perhaps?

candy

1 Jun 12 at 6:53 pm
It’s Assad, candy. It’s that simple. I’ll tell you why.

1. It’s consistent with Assad regime’s past treatment of the populace; they have lots of form. There’s no reason to think that “this one time” is different from all the other times when he did do it.

2. Assad claims he’s innocent but the Americans basically called bullshit. Now they got the weapons thing wrong in Iraq but even so the US intelligence have a lot of resources and usually know what’s going on.

3. Torturing children that painted anti-Assad graffiti would essentially mean torturing their own children!!! Given the parameters of this situation it just isn’t plausible. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

4. There’s no f—ing evidence that Assad didn’t do it, except that he said so.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 6:58 pm
Let’s not forget that Syria has been a State sponsor of terrorism for years. The Sunni majority had no compunction in helping Al Qaeda in Iraq murder lots of children. Killing children, women and unarmed groups is what both sides specialize in.

If the Sunni win there will be another genocide against Christians just as there been in Kosovo and Iraq and a more slow motion effort in Bosnia.

Unfortunately Adam, MK50s point is that no one is pushing for a Somali type outcome, but it is what you arelikely to get anyway. Leave them be, let them kill each other, its what they do and it keeps them occupied amongst themselves rather than focus on us.

John Comnenus

1 Jun 12 at 7:04 pm
thanks Adam, well Assad has the reputation as a dictator and monster, it’s almost common knowledge. i feel confused as to why US and NATO don’t act but i know nothing of this sort of stuff,

but the world sees massacres of civilians incluidng children every every week in Syria.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 7:05 pm
If the Sunni win there will be another genocide against Christians just as there been in Kosovo and Iraq and a more slow motion effort in Bosnia

Well, I hope not. It’s a possibility but not a certainty.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 7:08 pm
i feel confused as to why US and NATO don’t act but i know nothing of this sort of stuff

Because they might get bogged down in another long, drawn out war in the middle east, and because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the West has no appetite for that right now.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 7:09 pm
Because they might get bogged down in another long, drawn out war in the middle east, and because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the West has no appetite for that right now.

Oh bullshit. There’s the Libyan example of air support etc. They aren’t getting involved because deep down they are aware their most recent interference has caused a bigger fucking mess then before.. Libya. The Egyptian spring has turned out just dandy, right?

JC

1 Jun 12 at 7:26 pm
I was reading about a young boy about 10 or so, in the latest massacre whose family were done but he was missed but because he was so scared he covered himself in his dead brother’s bloody clothes to look like he was dead too in case the murderers checked.

poor kid, how do you go on after that. but what a smart lad.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 7:32 pm
i feel confused as to why US and NATO don’t act but i know nothing of this sort of stuff

Want to feel more confused? Ask yourself why Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar or any of the other members of the Arab Union don’t do anything about it. After all, it’s their co-religionists being slaughtered and several of those countries have large, capable armed forces and share borders with Syria.

The LAST thing any Western country needs to do is get involved. They will instantly be termed the enemy by both ‘sides’ and will be in a total no-win situation. When, if, the gunsmoke finally settles and the blood dries in the sand there will still be a government in place who hates the west no matter who ‘wins’.

This is one of those situations where the bleeding hearts put pressure on us to “do something”, right up until we do. Then they riot in our own streets. No thanks.

Zatara

1 Jun 12 at 7:32 pm
Sorry. make that Arab League. They haven’t switched back to a Union quite yet.

Zatara

1 Jun 12 at 7:37 pm
Don’t believe everything you see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJxqlNEtbA

coz

1 Jun 12 at 7:41 pm
oh I don’t believe anything i see on youtube ever about anything.

I just read google news and those massacres are happening.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 7:46 pm
uh huh.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 7:47 pm
Ground hog day. The more it changes the more it stays the same.

Turning to Egypt, where the first round of the
Presidential election was held last week and where the leading two candidates shall face each other in a run-off on the 16th of June, the leading candidate, Mr. Mohamed Morsi, the candidate of the Muslim Brotherhood, has said that he will try to appeal more openly to both women and Christians in order to achieve the majority he hopes to assemble. Morsi is running against Mr. Ahmed Shafiq, who is an old guard hold-over from the Mubarak regime, who ran on what is essentially a “law and order” platform.

So we have a reasonably radical Islamist on one side and an old guard defender of the regime ancien on the other, leaving many voting citizens in Egypt angry and dismayed, for they now believe they are facing the prospects of either an Islamic state or the return of the old order… neither of which they wish to participate in.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 7:52 pm
i feel confused as to why US and NATO don’t act

Simply, Syria doesn’t have a strategic asset like oil that can affect the economic functioning and wealth of the West. Therefore, Australia, the US and Western Europe don’t have a dog in the fight, so the do-nothing option is the safe option, bearing in mind the alternative is another Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan in which thousands or tens of thousands of Western troops die. The West pioneered a new strategy in Libya: deployment of strategic military assets to the anti-Gaddafi forces without boots on the ground, with good and bad consequences. Assad is a barbarian in an Armani suit who is simply applying the tried-and-true formula of Middle East despots (some supported by the West) over decades and centuries: Arabs are dumb peasants who need to be herded like sheep with force if necessary. Liberating Syria from itself would also risk delivering the country to fascist theocrats as is happening now in Egypt where the West backed “democracy”. Hope this helps, Candy.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 7:55 pm
Another worthy read from Victor Davis Hanson. Some of the comments indicate that leftist revision of history is well along. Scary.

Zatara

1 Jun 12 at 7:59 pm
thank you Tom.
there is something very sly and barbaric and very planned about these massacres.

it certainly seems remarkable ‘cos it’s ordered by a man in an Armani suit. weird and grotesque, a West type fellow but an absolute barbarian at heart. see him on TV and he looks normal.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 8:07 pm
Not exactly a neutral source, but who is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-LYWHn6L4Y

coz

1 Jun 12 at 8:26 pm
Liberating Syria from itself would also risk delivering the country to fascist theocrats as is happening now in Egypt where the West backed “democracy”.

Too soon to put scare quotes arond it. Just because we don’t like the outcome of the elections doesn’t make it undemocratic.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 8:41 pm
AK:

Nobody is promoting that outcome, “leftards” or anyone else.

of course they are, via hesitancy, timidity, wishful thinking and incompetence. Only a fool could mistake it – or assume this outcome is a matter of deliberative or mature policy. It is not, it is how we got the unfolding humanitarian disaster in Libya and the even worse unfolding humanitarian disaster in Egypt. This is an inevitable outcome of very poor, timid policy derived from wishful thinking and a touchingly stupid belief that politically divided city-dwelling, educated, westernised secular moderates who do not have kids can somehow prevail over a much larger rural population of less divided but ill-educated, religious poor population that is also more fecund.

Leftards tend to base public policy on wishful thinking. It did not work in Iran (Ayatollah Khomeini is a moderate, they said, and the Shah a totalitarian: this won Carter’s policy debate and it was dead wrong as history has proven most vividly), it did not work in Libya, it did not work in Egypt, so why will it work in Syria?

They are promoting the removal of a despicable, evil autocracy.

So what? Of course it’s a despicable, evil autocracy, it’s also a bog-standard Arab government of the postwar nationalist-socialist era and they are all like that (except in Iraq – and the left fought Bush’s efforts to nationbuild Iraq into a semi-democracy tooth and nail, no?)

The only liberal western democracy in the Levant is Israel. And leftards hate Israel with an evil passion.

The problem is one leftards are not able to comprehend because their (and your) world-view is based on fantasy and delusion: you refuse to understand that the outcomes will be worse than the existing situation. The actual choice is between bad, worse, and very worse.

There is no actual possibility of a ‘unicorns gambolling in the fairy floss fields’ option as you leftards insist. There never is.

If I am wrong on that score, then do you care to explain the current situation in Libya?

You, on the other hand, are promoting said autocracy, apologising for it, and offering hypotheticals as fact.

This is the bog-standard canard which leftards who are unable to understand reality always come up with. Every single ill-educated, dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks leftard says the same thing every time this occurs. You are merely and mindlessly parroting what other idiots said in the 70s about Iran, or last year about Libya. They were all wrong, but that fact never affects a fabulist who simply does not understand what is going on.

So your comment is merely your projection of your own ignorance, fantastical thinking and bigotry, nothing more.

You cannot afford to accept the reality that you cannot pick up a turd by the clean end. Nor are you able to comprehend that often in human affairs there is no good solution, only a range of increasingly bad solutions.

Your world-view cannot accept that, if you are a bog-standard leftard.

Because if you could, you’d have to acknowledge that your world-view is wrong.

And that is one thing a leftard will never do irrespective of objective reality.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 8:46 pm
Not exactly a neutral source, but who is?

Then we have this from Jo Nova

Not the same subject but “reporting” for own gain.
“Spot the conflict: GE owns NBC, the Weather channel and lots and lots of wind turbine factories” = “news”

Rudiau

1 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
Wish i had your word skills MK50
Well said

Rudiau

1 Jun 12 at 8:54 pm
This is the bog-standard canard which leftards who are unable to understand reality always come up with. Every single ill-educated, dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks leftard says the same thing every time this occurs.

Firstly, Mk, I’m not a leftist. Hating Assad doesn’t make me a leftist.

Secondly, the canard you refer to is at face value, true. If you think a brutal dictator shouldn’t get the sack but should keep his job, then you need a really good reason why. Hypotheticals about what might or might not happen in the aftermath of his downfall aren’t enough.

For instance during and after WWII, the Russians moved into Europe. That was not a reason to sit on our hands and do nothing about Germany. We opposed Hitler anyway and it was the right thing to do, even though the communists exploited Hitler’s downfall.

The default position should be “oppose evil.” Well, Assad’s evil.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:03 pm
i feel confused as to why US and NATO don’t act but i know nothing of this sort of stuff
Because they might get bogged down in another long, drawn out war in the middle east, and because of Iraq and Afghanistan, the West has no appetite for that right now.

……… and they’re broke ??…..

hzhousewife

1 Jun 12 at 9:05 pm
Firstly, Mk, I’m not a leftist. Hating Assad doesn’t make me a leftist.

I admire your compassion, AK. Can you share with us your action plan that solves the problem?

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 9:15 pm
Steve, no large airliner has ever made a successful water landing. All the safety precautions and procedures you sit through are a complete waste of time. The plane would explode on contact and you’d be dead.

All the successful ditchings in history have been in planes the size of an A300 or smaller.

Yobbo

1 Jun 12 at 9:18 pm
A320 or smaller, to be more accurate.

Yobbo

1 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
Just to spell it out: we still have a moral duty to oppose Assad. Also, it’s not clear that the Islamists will be triumphant.
For instance

Ryan Mauro: How can the U.S. and other countries help non-Islamists, like yourself, compete against the Islamists?

Kamal Labwani: In simple ways, they can support us with diplomacy, politics, media, facilities in neighboring states, also by financing, tools and communication. They can forward that support not to the Muslim Brotherhood, but to the liberal opposition.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
it would help if US and NATO were concerned about the massacre of civilians.

I just cannot see why they are not – so US is broke – but surely Mr Obama must have something to say is he deaf and dumb and about it all?

candy

1 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
Steve, no large airliner has ever made a successful water landing.

Capt.’Sully’ Sullenberger: ‘Miracle on Hudson’

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 9:21 pm
Yes, that was a narrow-body A320. Much smaller than a 747.

Yobbo

1 Jun 12 at 9:23 pm
So an Airbus A320 is small in your books Yobbo?

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 9:24 pm
TT next week delves into the power rip-offs.

Millions of dollars spent for alternatives and they don’t work. They’re looking at the massive power bill increases.

Bugger me. I think the AGW scare has really, really died.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/video/watch/29527401

kae

1 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
AK:

If you think a brutal dictator shouldn’t get the sack but should keep his job, then you need a really good reason why.

Because the alternatives are worse and will lead to greater loss of life. Historical fact.

Hypotheticals about what might or might not happen in the aftermath of his downfall aren’t enough.

What is hypothetical about what happened in Iran after the fall of the Shah?

What is hypothetical about what happened in Somalia after the fall of Siad Barre?

What is hypothetical about what happened in Libya after the fall of Gaddafi?

All three were ‘bad’ solutions. All three ran quite vile dictatorships. What happened after they were gone was much, much worse.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
Yes James, it’s about 1/3rd of the size and capacity of a 747 or A380, which is what you are going to be flying in for any flight into or out of Australia.

Yobbo

1 Jun 12 at 9:28 pm
I’m sorry but I am scpetical on this “don’t invade Syria” stuff because it is just a reversal of the John hoWARd and GW Bush = Hitler crap.

.

1 Jun 12 at 9:30 pm
All three were ‘bad’ solutions. All three ran quite vile dictatorships. What happened after they were gone was much, much worse.

Sure. But extending that to Syria is a hypothetical. The future is not fixed. As an aside I’d also suggest that Assad is worse than those guys were. But we need to, as that guy says, support the non-Islamists. You can’t say there’s nothing we can do to help the moderates.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:32 pm
Candy:

it would help if US and NATO were concerned about the massacre of civilians.

I am curious. Why? Why should we do anything to intervene in this civil war?

There is a civil war going on in Syria and has been for weeks. Hundreds are dying.

There is a civil war going on in Congo and has been for decades. Millions have died. Massacres of civilians in job lots – tens of thousands – have occurred. The media has ignored it. Every government in the world has ignored it.

I am actually curious as to why people are so vociferous re Syria, and just don’t care about something three orders of magnitude worse in Congo.

Is a bit of colour footage really that powerful?

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 9:35 pm
I’m sorry but I am scpetical on this “don’t invade Syria” stuff because it is just a reversal of the John hoWARd and GW Bush = Hitler crap

I was just saying that’s a reason, not endorsing the reason. If the US did invade they could learn a lot of lessons from Iraq and do it differently. Invade, set up a new local government, get out.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:35 pm
I do, for example, actually look at the safety card in the pocket in front of me whenever I fly. And work out which is the nearest exit and try to count the number of rows to it. I like to wear a leather jacket too, as I consider them likely to be more fireproof, and would never fly in other than good footwear, but not of a kind which I can envisage being too heavy if I was floating in water.

Yobbo reminded me. Steve, if you’re reading the safety card because you think it may extend your miserable existence, you have chosen the wrong airline. Pay $20 more and fly Qantas, you retard.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 9:39 pm
I am actually curious as to why people are so vociferous re Syria, and just don’t care about something three orders of magnitude worse in Congo.

Because, if it wasn’t for domestic politics, we could influence the outcome in Syria a lot more than we can in the Congo. Also they’re asking for help!
From Israel! Which did their cause no favors in other quarters. Not exactly your typical Islamists.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:40 pm
This is what Obama has done. He has sold out the Syrian rebels to the Islamists.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:43 pm
But extending that to Syria is a hypothetical.

No, the ‘extension’ is an evidence based inevitability.

There will be a much bigger bloodbath in Syria if baby assad is deposed.

Anyone who attempts to argue otherwise is, quite frankly, being stupid.

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 9:45 pm
“I am curious. Why? Why should we do anything to intervene in this civil war?”

i have limited understanding of it, but i don’t think it’s a civil war, like tribe against tribe in the African places.

it would seem to me to be a systematic murder by the Syrian goverment of civilians who have not done anything, ie. what did the murdered chldren do to be killed? that’s not a civil war.

it’s murder of innocent civilians for a purpose of the government.

A civil war is tribe against tribe isn’t it?

candy

1 Jun 12 at 9:45 pm
also, here’s Krauthammer on Obama’s cowardice.

In the year since, the government of Syria has more than threatened massacres. It has carried them out. Nothing hypothetical about the disappearances, executions, indiscriminate shelling of populated neighborhoods. More than 9,000 are dead.

Obama has said that we cannot stand idly by. And what has he done? Stand idly by.
…
Obama’s other major announcement — at Washington’s Holocaust Museum, no less — was the creation of an Atrocities Prevention Board.

I kid you not. A board. Russia flies plane loads of weapons to Damascus. Iran supplies money, trainers, agents, more weapons. And what does America do? Supports a feckless U.N. peace mission that does nothing to stop the killing. (Indeed, some of the civilians who met with the peacekeepers were summarily executed.) And establishes an Atrocities Prevention Board.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:46 pm
Invade, set up a new local government, get out.

Then sit back and watch the islamists set up an even newer ‘gubberment’.

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 9:46 pm
Yobbo: well, OK. Except that the last few holidays have involved flights within Australia, in smaller planes that, conceivably, might ditch in water.

Call me a crazy optimist, but as I slip off my sneakers so as to tread water better in Botany Bay, I’ll think “ha! what do those people at Catallaxy know!”

On a different topic: that new Shaun Micallef show wasn’t all that great, I thought. Just mildly diverting. But I suppose everyone here was busy solving the Middle East by swearing at each other.

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 9:48 pm
It’s not inevitable. It wasn’t, anyway.
It’s a three cornered contest, and Obama has sold out the good guys.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 9:49 pm
amen.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 9:50 pm
^ amen to Rabz, I meant.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 9:51 pm
yuman rights is a euphemism.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 9:52 pm
It’s not inevitable.

No, you are lying.

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 9:52 pm
On a different topic: that new Shaun Micallef show wasn’t all that great, I thought. Just mildly diverting. But I suppose everyone here was busy solving the Middle East by swearing at each other.

Week 1 was good.

Maybe you’re just a clown who doesn’t like a comedy thing on ABC that puts shit on this woeful Government?

.

1 Jun 12 at 9:53 pm
…the creation of an Atrocities Prevention Board.

Yeah, that’ll work…

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 9:54 pm
i don’t think it’s a civil war

Candy, it’s Syrian versus Syrian: that’s a civil war; there are no different ethnicities involved apart from the usual regional tribalisms like Qld vs NSW. It’s heart-breaking, but it’s the truth.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 9:54 pm
GayBC comedies always veer hard left at some stage.

coz

1 Jun 12 at 9:56 pm
But I suppose everyone here was busy solving the Middle East by swearing at each other.

Not ‘everyone’, semenblogger.

What is it with lobotomised middle aged leftists and hyperbowl?

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 9:58 pm
AK:

But extending that to Syria is a hypothetical

.

No, it’s an assessment based on current best data and on the religious, tribal and ethnic make-up of Syria. DO you seriously believe that the country will not dissolve into fratricide? How do you justify that view?

Look at the facts. 74% are Sunnis who are repressed by the 13% who are Alawites, Ismailis and Twelvers combined. 3% are Druze,while the remaining 10-12% were Christians, who have been co-opted by the Alawites to repress the Sunni. But not all the Sunnis are Arabs. The Kurds make up 10% of the population and are officially Sunni but they hate the Arab Sunni and also hate the Sunni Turks 3% of the population. Then there’s the geographic disposition. Most Christians live in Damascus, Aleppo, Al-Hasakah Province, Tartus and Latakia. 90% of the Alawis live in Latakia Province/Jabal an Nusayriyah. Jabal al-Arab/Jabal al-Druze is the rugged mountain pocket the Sunni forced the Druze into after a genocidal war a couple of centuries back. 120 villages there are exclusively Druze. They get on really well with the Israelis and the Christians, and hate the Sunni too. Twelvers Shia are concentrated between Homs and Aleppo. Ismaili Shia are concentrated in Hamah and Latakia’s mountains (forced there by Sunni genocidal impulses a few centuries back) Province. Most of the remaining Shia live around Aleppo.

What keeps the lid on ancient communal hatreds is a repressive regime. it has ever been thus.

Why do you think these groups will not unleash their ancient and bitter communal feuds like that have all through history when permitted to by a weak central or imperial Turkish power?

What has happened this time, in your view, to change the pattern of the last 1,500 years?

The future is not fixed.

Beware your corollary – that the past is no guide to the future. It’s wrong.

As an aside I’d also suggest that Assad is worse than those guys were.

Khomeini slaughtered tens of thousands to secure power, then as many more every few years to maintain it, then fought a war with Iraq in which a million died and gas was routinely used. Assad is nowhere near his league in the ‘blood-soaked tyrants’ stakes. Your suggestion has zero merit.

But we need to, as that guy says, support the non-Islamists. You can’t say there’s nothing we can do to help the moderates.

What moderates? Who are they? Where are they?

This is the old song carried by the BBC etc. There are no moderates, there is merely a westernised English-speaking urban elite with absolutely no real ability to take power or keep it if they did. Supporting them might feel nice, like it did in Libya last year. Where are these guys now? Dead or fled is the answer in Libya.

Why support people who cannot possibly succeed in doing what they claim, and who merely open the path to a much worse situation?

It’s just wishful thinking and it leads to a much worse mess and much worse rulers.

It’s a dreadful thing to say that the most sensible policy currently on display here is that of the benighted Russians. They understand the reality of the situation – it cannot get better, only worse.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 10:01 pm
Mk50, that quip about turds having no clean ends was gold.

dover_beach

1 Jun 12 at 10:05 pm
Thanks Mk – an extraordinary exposition of the reality.

Needless to say, elsewhere, fingers are being inserted into ears, hands are being held over eyes and mouths are being geared up to start squealing….

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
Well done, Marko.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
What moderates? Who are they? Where are they?

I’ve provided answers to that question upthread. They do exist. They are there. People who love freedom can be found all over the world, even in the most repressive cultures.

Look, let’s call a truce. You may well be right and the Islamists may well take over, but that’s not because of any inevitability. It’s because in this three way contest the west (especially Obama) have sat on their hands, while Russia and Iran fund the other two sides of the triangle.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
Needless to say, elsewhere, fingers are being inserted into ears, hands are being held over eyes and mouths are being geared up to start squealing….

Um, I’d just like to point out that I’m the only one here who’s provided any evidence to back up my claims, and I’ve provided lots of it, including I might add, a Krauthammer editorial. Everyone else is talking through their arses. But do go on. Continue to assert that I’m wrong, based on vague historical parallels.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:10 pm
Mk50′s response to the Arab Spring: Winter is coming.

dover_beach

1 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
Adam, as I said earlier, I admire your compassion. I now want to hear about how you’re going to run the operation to get rid of Assad. Not good enough to pontificate on what should happen.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 10:12 pm
Continue to assert that I’m wrong, based on vague historical parallels.

No, our assertions are based on current reality, which you can’t accept we have pegged.

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:14 pm
Yeah Steve you hate it because half of the Micalef programme is basically a sledge about Craig Thomson.

.

1 Jun 12 at 10:15 pm
The Middle East like every thug paradise in the world needs an adult in the White House.

Thw single biggest foreign policy disgrace of the present godawful incumbent is the support for the mullahs over the green revolution in Iran in 2009.

Syria’s resistance should nebe given moral and material supprt.

This fucking woeful administration described Assad as a ‘reformer’ in public by the highest levels as late as 2010.

Obummer stinks to high heaven.

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 10:17 pm
Yeah Steve you hate it because half of the Micalef programme is basically a sledge about Craig Thomson.

And the implication that Wayne Swan’s advisors kept having him pose with economics textbooks to make him look like he was smart.

Quentin George

1 Jun 12 at 10:19 pm
AK:

I’ve provided answers to that question upthread. They do exist. They are there. People who love freedom can be found all over the world, even in the most repressive cultures.

The sense you seem to imply for ‘moderate’ is westernised and secularised. Sure they exist, and so what? They are irrelevant. They cannot obtain power or retain it if they could. All they can do is die.

The word ‘moderate’ does not mean what the BBC thinks it does in the Levant. A moderate Levantine Arab is one who wants to forcibly convert all others to Islam but who thinks that there is a bit of wiggle room in how the koran says how to do this.

Extremists are also not what the BBC thinks. They are not a small majority of terrorists at all, they are better described as koranic literalists, and they are the majority of both Sunni and Shia in the Arab world. Why? Because they are the ill-educated urban and rural poor. Their role is to be preyed upon by the power-elites and diverted by directed communal violence: think ‘the Roman mob on steroids’.

This is the problem of perception you have. You do not understand that the data on which you are making your assessments is distorted.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 10:24 pm
I now want to hear about how you’re going to run the operation to get rid of Assad. Not good enough to pontificate on what should happen.

Cut off support for the Muslim Brotherhood.
Reform or replace the Syrian National Council.
Use the council to establish deeper connections inside Syria with moderates to assist with intelligence, logistics and supplies.
Encourage Israel to start playing a more aggressive role at the Western border.
Locate and target Iranian supply lines.
To ramp it up a bit more, bomb the palace and other institutional seats of power.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:24 pm
And establishes an Atrocities Prevention Board.

Atrocity Watch?

The ALP have just created a Jobs Board.

Migrant Worker Watch?

Viva

1 Jun 12 at 10:24 pm
OK, so what’s the consensus on Shaun M?

I’ve always found him mildly to extremely amusing – he has a fabulous sense of the absurd, one of the bedrocks of the best comedy.

His new show sounds promising, but the luvvy yaartz collective will not be happy…

Long memories, they have…

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:25 pm
oh wait a second… *slaps forehead* the French already hatched a plan to bomb the palace, but Obama nixed it.
sad face.
Oh well. I guess he knows what he’s doing.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:26 pm
And establishes an Atrocities Prevention Board.

The Slapper was whispering in his ear just recently

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 10:27 pm
Tiggers 121
Saints 113

Bloody beeeyoodifull!

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:27 pm
What would Jobs board do that Job seeker does not?

do peope have to go two different places to look for work and apply twice then or the jobs all different on Jobs Board.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 10:29 pm
I’ve always found him mildly to extremely amusing – he has a fabulous sense of the absurd, one of the bedrocks of the best comedy.

Agree. He’s at minimum okay, and sometimes pretty good. I wouldn’t call him brilliant, but on the plus side, he’s not a nutball like so many Australian comedians.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:30 pm
Encourage Israel to start playing a more aggressive role at the Western border.

A leftist wouldn’t advocate such heresy…

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:31 pm
There are no moderates, there is merely a westernised English-speaking urban elite with absolutely no real ability to take power or keep it if they did. Supporting them might feel nice, like it did in Libya last year. Where are these guys now? Dead or fled is the answer in Libya.

The interim Head of Government in Libya was Mahmoud Jibril, a guy with a PhD in politics from the University of Pittsburgh, who was a professor there for several years.

The current PM is Abdurrahim El-Keib, an electrical engineer, who was a professor at North Carolina State University and the University of Alabama.

The current deputy PM is Mustafa A.G. Abushagur, another engineer, PhD from Caltech, who was also a professor at Alabama.

It would appear they are not all “dead or fled”.

Piett

1 Jun 12 at 10:31 pm
Didn’t realise you were cursed with that affliction, Rabz.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 10:33 pm
The actual choice is between bad, worse, and very worse.

There is no actual possibility of a ‘unicorns gambolling in the fairy floss fields’ option as you leftards insist. There never is.

THIS.

And the rejoinder comes: “But wouldn’t it be pretty to think so?”

Yes, dear. Yes, it would be.

~sigh~

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 10:34 pm
I think we should attack Syria. We should get rid of these regimes on the cheap, not in Iraq style conflicts.

That’s what Obambi tried in Libya. In contrast, Bin Laden was nailed by troops going in on the ground (The Afghanistan/2nd Iraq war Bush method, which also worked against the Nazis and the Kaiser).

If you’re going to settle disputes like this with air power alone, you have to be willing to bomb an entire nation back into the Stone Age, lace the wreckage with pork-greased white phosphorus cluster bombs, and not care about how many children you kill. On the whole, I’d rather do things the way W did them (whilst trying to avoid the mistakes the Yanks made in the reconstruction phase).

perturbed

1 Jun 12 at 10:37 pm
Holy $%(#

Jobs report: Only 69,000 jobs added, jobless rate rises to 8.2%

Alex Pundit

1 Jun 12 at 10:37 pm
That was not a typo.

Alex Pundit

1 Jun 12 at 10:37 pm
Didn’t realise you were cursed with that affliction, Rabz.

Thanks Tom, I’m not.

The last micallef I actually watched was welcher and welcher, back in 2003.

I rarely, if ever, watch the ALPBC, SIS*, or commercial TV.

*specious idiot services

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:38 pm
No, the rejoinder is that lovers of FREEDOM can be found everywhere. THey exist in Syria. We know how to find them. Obama has sold them out. And for love of God, don’t ask me to provide evidence when I’ve sprayed this fucking thread with links.

It is absurd to argue that people in Syria don’t want to be free because, oh I don’t know, they’re too backward or some fucking bullshit you’ve all got in your head.

You’re all too stupid to argue with. I provide evidence, I provide detailed arguments, I provide data, and you all keep repeating the same tired, bigoted crap that started the discussion.

“Mussies. Grunt. Too stupid to want freedom. let em kill each other. Snort.”

I thought this place had a higher collective IQ, but clearly…. I was mistaken. Good night.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:40 pm
That second last paragraph was a parody of the arguments on this thread, by the way, not my own opinion. Just thought I’d spell that out for the dimwitted among you.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:41 pm
Rabz, I was talking about the Tiges! Congratulations, man! It’s so much fun to see the emo army misbehaving again.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 10:42 pm
You’re all too stupid to argue with.

You will live to cringe at that statement, mark our words…

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:43 pm
I didn’t see the first Micallef show last week, but read it was good.

So my view of this week’s show, which didn’t spend much time on this week’s politics, is uninfluenced by the things dot thinks it was.

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 10:45 pm
Not all of you. I take that back. I got pissed off and was venting. But seriously guys, either back up with some fucking analysis to contradict mine, or lay down your fucking cards and fold.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:46 pm
I’m right, I’ve proved I’m right repeatedly, and you all need to eat humble fucking pie.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:47 pm
Addit: This is of course why Japan found itself able to capitulate at the end of WW2 without a formal invasion: for the first time, it was shown that one nation really could annihilate another without having to send troops in, even if the US did not then and would not for some time possess enough A-bombs to do it.

But even then, an army of occupation was required to enforce the peace.

perturbed

1 Jun 12 at 10:48 pm
Rabz, I was talking about the Tiges!

Ah Ha!

Tommy, I’m a Sydneysider born and bred and the Tiggers are my second team – Richmond being a frequent domicile of mine when in Melbourne.

Rabz

1 Jun 12 at 10:51 pm
You’re all too stupid to argue with.

Adam, it took us about four hours to get it out of you that you are a dumbo zombie leftist in spite of your protestations. I’ve no doubt you will return when you’ve learnt to reason and deal with reality. It’s not too hard.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 10:51 pm
Adam, it took us about four hours to get it out of you that you are a dumbo zombie leftist in spite of your protestations.

Evidence please? This should be good.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 10:53 pm
If you’re going to settle disputes like this with air power alone, you have to be willing to bomb an entire nation back into the Stone Age, lace the wreckage with pork-greased white phosphorus cluster bombs, and not care about how many children you kill.

I would have agreed with you until recently, but PGMs are evidently getting better and better …

Human Rights Watch is claiming 72 civilians died, including 44 women and children, in NATO air strikes last year. …

NATO carried out some 26,000 sorties including some 9,600 strike missions and destroyed about 5,900 targets before operations ended on October 31.

Only 72 civilian dead from 9,600 sorties (!!) strikes me as amazingly low.

Piett

1 Jun 12 at 10:56 pm
Adam, you disagreed with them. That’s enough evidence that you’re a dumb crazy leftard. Haven’t you worked out how this blog works yet?

steve from brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 10:57 pm
Mike Kelly and Arthur Sinidinos debated on Lateline.

Arthur just shook his head and laughed a Kelly’s denial of reality Labot are better economic managers rant.

He just said we should leave it at that tather than demolished eack of Kelly’s lunatic asseretions.

He’s astute.

It shoulder shrug and laugh reflected better on him and the Liberal Party

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 10:58 pm
If you’re going to settle disputes like this with air power alone, you have to be willing to bomb an entire nation back into the Stone Age

Normally yes, but not in this case. Assad’s grip is tenuous. Bomb a few well chosen buildings and it will seriously damage his leadership capacity. Also it sends the strong message to his inner circles that he and they are not invulnerable. Then, once he’s in hiding he loses starter’s advantage and he’s just another contestant for the prize.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 11:01 pm
No, the rejoinder is that lovers of FREEDOM can be found everywhere. THey exist in Syria. We know how to find them.

Yes, they’re all in the streets of freedom-loving Muslim countries celebrating the great all-singin’ all-dancin’ victory of the liberal freedom won in the Arab Spring conflicts doing June Is Bustin’ Out All Over now. Love them their Rogers & Hammerstein, them freedom-loving Muslim Brotherhood types.

See also unicorns, fairy floss.

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:04 pm
“Mussies. Grunt. Too stupid to want freedom. let em kill each other. Snort.”

Well hey.

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:07 pm
Adam, you think that, in an election year, Obama is going to devote an air force fleet wing to knock out Assad, with ground troops supplied by the EU in the middle of its (probably terminal) existential crisis. I would like to be more tactful, but, as I said, dumbo zombie leftist.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 11:08 pm
sean micallef looks dumb in that circular desk.

candy

1 Jun 12 at 11:12 pm
Take your pick.

I know JC, mine was a throw away line too. Personally I couldn’t care if they fought each other down to the last rock in that shithole they call the middle east. I say a fence should be erected around the whole lot of them and they can go at it hammer and tongs until the only thing left standing are the pyramids.

If you know anything about bible prophesy wars and rumours of wars are on the increase so worrying about one more dictator won’t add a day to your life. They are savages…always were, always will be.

splatacrobat

1 Jun 12 at 11:13 pm
AK:

It is absurd to argue that people in Syria don’t want to be free

No one has said this except you.

You can’t say that with any meaning until you define what freedom means to each Syrian grouping. It means something completely different to the Druze and Melkites as compared to the Sunni Arabs.

You are also making no allowances for the culture: oversimplifying outrageously, it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

Why? Because the clan is the smallest entity or structure that can offer security, backup and social support. This is quite normal in cultures where the only people who can be fully trusted are blood relatives. These cultures are by far the majority in human history.

If you do not understand this sort of really basic, fundamental thing about the cultures of the region and why they are as they are, then you cannot really say anything meaningful, because you do not understand the basics.

I completely reject your racist caricature :

“Mussies. Grunt. Too stupid to want freedom. let em kill each other. Snort”

Melkites, Chaldeans, Maronites and Assyrians (as well as Druze) are not muslim.

However, I understand from your posts that you are completely ignorant of just how the culture is structured and why it functions the way it does. For individuals, it’s actually a better cultural structure than ours in many ways. However, for a civilisation, it is much inferior as bonds of mutual trust and fidelity cannot easly exist above the clan level. That is why Arab countries are (by our standards) dysfunctional in terms of governance. They do not have a cultural fabric able to support a post-Westphalian nation-state.

You do not appear to understand this.

Mk50 of Brisbane

1 Jun 12 at 11:14 pm
The Kenyan’s finished. Stick a needle in him.

US economy adds a disappointing 69000 jobs in May

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fiw-jobs-20120601,0,1813895.story

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:21 pm
I already posted that JC. Everybody here was busy arguing about God knows what.

Get used to President Romney is what they’re saying over at Daily Kos right now.

Alex Pundit

1 Jun 12 at 11:25 pm
ok, sorry ,. didn’t look. thanks.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:26 pm
Yeah, the most important news story of the day seemed to be not so important to people here.

Alex Pundit

1 Jun 12 at 11:27 pm
Well done, JC. You picked this a long time out.

Tom

1 Jun 12 at 11:28 pm
This about finishes him. And to be honest the administration has the small of death about it too. He would have been finished anyway.

Add the SCOTUS destroying Kenyancare this month and Romney may as well take the summer off and spend it with his family before the big job starts.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:30 pm
oops …smell..

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:30 pm
Yep, “the numbers are in and they’re awful, leading to growing concern that we’re slipping into another recession. This is terrible news for President Obama, but even worse news for the country.”

Various reactions being added to that link.

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:33 pm
The Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act (PRENDA), H.R. 3541, was defeated in a 246-168 vote. While that’s a clear majority of the House, Republicans called up the bill under a suspension of House rules, which limits debate and requires a two-thirds majority vote to pass. In this case, it would have required more support from Democrats.

Twenty Democrats voted for the bill, while seven Republicans opposed it. The bill would have needed 30 more yeas to pass.

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 11:35 pm
The stock market will either crash today or Monday next week. US bloggers/traders are also getting a really bad whiff of this too.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:35 pm
By the way, super-genius Obama put out yet another “motivational poster” on Twitter today.

He never learns. I’m really starting to think that whoever is directing his social media campaign hates him.

“A heartfelt plea to the Obama campaign: please keep creating those motivational pictures. They are very fun.”

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:36 pm
You are also making no allowances for the culture: oversimplifying outrageously, it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

No. Wrong.
Yeah, I read your caveat that you’re simplifying but you’re still wrong.

Adam Kane

1 Jun 12 at 11:36 pm
New Yorkers Leave Like East Germans Fled Communism

New York thinks of itself as the place to be, but its high taxes have made it a place to flee. Those who have escaped the Empire State tax man could fill a major city.

From 1949 to 1961, more than 2.6 million of East Germany’s 17 million population escaped to West Berlin or West Germany, a hemorrhage of humanity that led the Communists to construct the infamous Berlin Wall in 1961.

The state of New York, with about 19.5 million people, has no known plans to erect concrete barriers or barbed wire fences. But from 2000 to 2010 it suffered an exodus of some 3.4 million New Yorkers — nearly a million more people than in Germany’s post-war experience and more than that of any other state.

And the outflow hasn’t stopped. The income loss for the state is $45.6 billion, the Tax Foundation says.

Granted, it’s not just one-way traffic. New York has plenty of immigration from abroad; its more than 4 million foreign-born residents give it the second-biggest immigrant population in America.

So net outward migration is about 1.3 million.

Most New York refugees are in sunny, zero-income-tax Florida. The Sunshine State, along with its rays, offer big relief from New York’s state tax on income, which starts at almost 6.5% and reaches nearly 9% for the overly successful.

On top of that are high sales taxes that approach 9% in New York City, but 7% in some other areas.

JamesK

1 Jun 12 at 11:37 pm
Ed Schultz says that if Obama loses he will be the last member of the Democratic Party to be elected president. For once, I hope Schultz is right.

Alex Pundit

1 Jun 12 at 11:39 pm
Ed Schultz says that if Obama loses he will be the last member of the Democratic Party to be elected president. For once, I hope Schultz is right.

I hope he thinks that’s a good thing. Lol

You what too, I think there could be chance the GOP increases it’s seats count in the house. They could end up getting everything, presidency, senate, house and a couple of resignations on the SCOTUS over romney’s term.. This could turn out to be a clean sweep.

JC

1 Jun 12 at 11:42 pm
http://twitchy.com/2012/06/01/crappy-economic-news-bad-for-our-country-but-great-for-bondholders/

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:43 pm
ONLINE shoppers face “severe” penalties if they are caught taking advantage of loopholes to avoid paying tax on foreign goods.
Overseas retailers are offering Australian buyers fake invoices so that purchases appear to cost less than the $1000 threshold in order to avoid paying GST and import duties.
But under the customs act, shoppers face fines of up to $110,000 if they are caught undervaluing goods.

Many guitars and amps are bought this way. You can save $4000 on a Les Paul this way.

Abu Chowdah

1 Jun 12 at 11:44 pm
Nobody wants to live in New York anymore, JamesK.

About 17 percent of the African-Americans who moved to the South from other states in the past decade came from New York, far more than from any other state, according to census data.

The Rev. Floyd H. Flake, pastor of the 23,000-member Greater Allen African Methodist Episcopal Cathedral in Jamaica, Queens, said he was losing hundreds of congregants yearly to Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia.

“For decades, Queens has been the place where the African-American middle class went to buy their first home and raise a family,” Mr. Flake said. “But now, we are seeing a reversal of this as African-Americans feel this is no longer as easy to achieve and that the South is more benevolent than New York.”

The Black middle class telling the NYT “the South is more benevolent than New York” … Whoops, there goes the narrative.

sdog

1 Jun 12 at 11:53 pm
I’m right, I’ve proved I’m right repeatedly, and you all need to eat humble fucking pie.

lol. Who is this neophyte?

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:06 am
I just got off the blower with a trader friend of mine in the US. We were shooting the breeze about the markets and elections.

He reckons that he’s still worried because the kenyan has a lock on the social media. Apparently he was reading somewhere the the Kenyan has 16 million twitter accounts while Romney has 600,000.

But to be honest I don’t see the importance of that. Does anyone else?

Sure it means that he is able to get to people through the social networks, but how exactly does that help him win the election? To me it’s just another form of advertising in a way.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
lol. Who is this neophyte?

He’s Adam. Kane’s dad.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:12 am
John Podhoretz op-ed in the New York Post: What is O’s case?
It’s sure not the economy

The Obama team must know that they can’t prevail solely with a negative assault on Mitt Romney, but really, what is the positive case?

Ordering the mission to kill Osama bin Laden isn’t a case; it could be an important element of a larger argument about his stewardship if it connected to anything larger. But he hasn’t done that, and it’s hard to see where it fits in.

There’s an element of bad political luck here for the president, especially when it comes to Europe. And he’s just not used to bad political luck.

In 2004, running for US Senate in Illinois, he got an enormously lucky break when an unprecedented judicial ruling made public some ugliness from child-custody proceedings that caused his strong Republican rival, Jack Ryan, to withdraw and left Obama to face an absurd GOP challenger.

In 2008, he enjoyed good fortune in the Democratic primaries in large measure due to the shocking incompetence of Hillary Clinton’s political team, which didn’t actually understand the rules governing delegate selection. Winning the presidency with three years of national political experience under his belt was probably the luckiest event in the history of American politics.

He needs a lucky break of some kind between now and November. Hard to say what it could be, since it would by definition be unexpected. But without it, he’s not going to win a second term.

Not under these conditions.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:15 am
JC, I saw an article somewhere the other day (and I will dig it up), that 40% of social media accounts are spam. So that amounts to nothing.

Alex Pundit

2 Jun 12 at 12:19 am
It’s like the argument I was having with a Paulbot a couple of weeks ago, who said that Ron Paul is going to be the Republican nominee because he draws crowds of 10,000. Large crowds yeah, but so what.

Alex Pundit

2 Jun 12 at 12:21 am
Apart from spam Alex mentioned, I’d say a heckava lot would be kids below voting age. I mean Bammy is the Celebrity Prez after all.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:21 am
Yea I read that too somewhere alex. But lets say he does have 16 million live accounts. That to me sounds like the equivalent of annoying drop ads you get when you’re just about to read something, so I don’t see how that helps him. Unless of course I’m not understanding something about the dynamics.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:22 am
Marc Thiessen Wa-Po: The Obama-Bush doctrine

Most conservatives support Obama’s drone strategy. And apparently so do most liberals. A Post poll earlier this year found that 77 percent of self-described liberals support drone strikes, and 55 percent approve even if the targets are American citizens. This may be the greatest bipartisan achievement of Obama’s presidency: He has secured broad liberal support for the key elements of the Bush doctrine. That is an accomplishment that was unthinkable when Bush was in office — and one I suspect Obama will leave out of his remarks at the White House today

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:23 am
I mean would you go out to vote because you received a comment from the Kenyan over Facebook?

I’m not sure that would convince me.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:24 am
By the way, super-genius Obama put out yet another “motivational poster” on Twitter today.

He never learns. I’m really starting to think that whoever is directing his social media campaign hates him.

Obama says: “Ready to go.”

LOL.

Look, I’m convinced that the Obama campaign has been infiltrated with Republicans.

Check this out: the Obama team’s latest ad:

It’s every little girl’s dream.
Free birth control and taxpayer-funded abortions.

Video.

Coming in the week that saw the Democrats back the killing of girls.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 12:24 am
It’s every little girl’s dream.
Free birth control and taxpayer-funded abortions.

That’s disgusting! Look how young they are. Is this the sort of stuff Obama would say to his girls?
I suppose Malia and Sasha will be writing their own Dreams of My Father as therapy, in the future..

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:28 am
One of Tim Blair’s commenters observes that what George W. Bush said doesn’t mean what Obama thinks it means:

But then, isn’t this a sly dig at Obama at the same time? After campaigning on opposing and/or reversing so many of W’s policies he seems to have grown to see their virtues now that he’s responsible for more than a legislator’s office staff.

You can guarantee it would have gone straight over the Kenyan’s head.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 12:28 am
Newt Gingrich has 1,462,937 twitter followers.
Mitt Romney only has 525,458.

Having more people follow you on Twitter does not necessarily lead to electoral success.

n.b. Justin Bieber has more followers than Obama – 22,635,437. So does Lady Gaga. Just sayin’.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 12:28 am
Look, I’m convinced that the Obama campaign has been infiltrated with Republicans.

Shhhhh….. we’re not supposed to talk about that in the clear. You’ll anger Karl.
#VRWC

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 12:31 am
Thanks dog, that’s what I think too. It doesn’t matter.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:32 am
Yeah, I’m sure Ron Paul’s twitter followers are in the millions too. Times that by the amount of clone accounts that he probably has along with the followers of each of those as well.

And the guy couldn’t even win a state after Santorum and Gingrich dropped out.

Alex Pundit

2 Jun 12 at 12:33 am
I don’t get the angle they’re trying to push with the ad. Yea I know it’s supposed to be convincing women but Romney’s support has gone up with the ladies.

Also why remind them of non-planned parenthood and the recent goings on especially that those little gals could have been rubbed out.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 12:37 am
Is this the sort of stuff Obama would say to his girls?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Obama 2008:

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” he said. “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 12:38 am
Bill Clinton: ‘Yeah, banning soda is a good idea.’

Defends Bloomberg’s Soda Ban: ‘These Are Very Serious Problems’.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 1:01 am
DRUDGE:

MAY MESS: JOBS +69,000 …
WHITE HOUSE BLAMES BUSH…

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 1:03 am
At least they didn’t blame Abbott.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 1:05 am
Bill Clinton: ‘Yeah, banning soda is a good idea.’

Shut the fuck up, you fat vegan c**t.

You know as an Australian the soda ban sounds just plain ridiculous. Just imagine what the denizens of Texas must think?

What a stupid, stupid, stupid world we live in.

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 1:07 am
#Presstitutes.

CNN on jobs report: ‘Republicans blame Obama for poor job numbers’

Some Twitter users are predicting how the media will further cover this.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 1:20 am
Piett and Adam, I get your point – I suppose the question is whether you are trying to topple one man with little care for what follows or frighten a whole nation (and arguably its neighbours) into behaving decently when the shocked survivors are eventually pulled out of the rubble.

e.g. if you wanted to fortify Israel’s position in the ME without sending in ground troops, you would have to conduct yourself as I’ve suggested – conduct a merciless area bombing campaign in the first and most troublesome nation to hand (be it Egypt, Lebanon, Syria or Palestine, for example) with the object of causing as much human misery as possible, and then warn that the next nation which was perceived to be acting as a base for operations against Israel would get more of the same without warning.

perturbed

2 Jun 12 at 1:39 am
This woman is dangerous even to herself let alone the electors.

throws grand parents under a bus.

And asked why she said last month that she knew about Harvard listing her as a Native American only after the Boston Herald first broke the story, she responded, “I misunderstood the question.”

Still, Warren continued to argue that her Native American ancestry is an important part of her family history.

“My father’s family so objected to my mother’s Native American heritage that my mother told me they had to elope,” she told the Globe. “This was real in my life. I can’t deny my heritage. I can’t and I won’t. That would be denying who my mother was, who my family was, how we lived, and I won’t do it.’’

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/76946.html#ixzz1wYgDxfmj

JC

2 Jun 12 at 2:08 am
JC, she’s digging a hole for herself so hard that Gina Rinehart could put her to work in the mines and productivity would triple.

perturbed

2 Jun 12 at 2:48 am
Perturbed

This fraud and freaking lunatic ran the regulatory agency responsible for setting up an entirely new set of consumer regulations against the banks and hobbled them even more.

There’s no words to describe how rotten to the core the arsehole is.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 2:52 am
Bill Clinton: ‘Yeah, banning soda is a good idea.’

I wish these Democrat idiots and the sheep who vote for them could hear themselves talk. Let’s ban this, that and the other inoffensive thing… while simultaneously complaining about the the Republican dictatorship that will ensue if Romney gets in.

They are the same people who whined all the way to the election how worried they were that Bush was going to suspend the Constitution at the 11th hour to keep himself in. And they’d like to think they are educated and intelligent. Maybe so, but they are so short on common sense as to make that count for nothing.

perturbed

2 Jun 12 at 3:16 am
Company lackeys excuse Fairfax’s shambolic performance:

the company’s fortunes have been pummelled by unprecedented levels of change in the media industry.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 3:28 am
“My father’s family so objected to my mother’s Native American heritage that my mother told me they had to elope,” she told the Globe. “This was real in my life.”

So she’s just damned half her grandparents as racists – under the bus with YOU, gran & gramps!

Say, does that make her 1/4 Bigot-American then?

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 3:38 am
You know it’s true: Mitt Romney is a racist polygamist. Faifax and the Guardian are alarmed that he could actually win in November.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 3:38 am
Wm. Jacobson: Elizabeth Warren needs an intervention.

Quite so.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 3:41 am
How do you know all Assad’s side is responsible for all the killing going on?

I know I’m coming into this kinda late, but this is a good question. I’ve heard in several media reports that many of the victims had their throats slit. One man was shown on BBC International with missing hands, apparently severed in the attack.

Yet every heavy diplomatic hitter from Hillary Clinton to Kofi Annan is on every news channel stating that this attack has the regime’s fingerprints all over it due to evidence of the use of heavy weaponry such as tanks and artillery. Clearly the government was responsible – look, fresh tank tracks.

Tanks and artillery don’t slit throats or cut off hands.

I’m not saying Assad isn’t behind this. I’m saying we shouldn’t be jumping to any conclusions at this point, as critical elements of the It Was Assad Wot Dunnit narrative being pushed by most of the world’s governments and their assorted media don’t add up.

The fact is that the people opposing Assad aren’t particularly nice guys, and I wouldn’t put it past them to murder a few hundred innocents for political expediency, as I wouldn’t put it past Assad to do the same.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 3:52 am
Tom, that piece in today’s Age is just regurgitated rubbish straight from Wednesday’s Guardian (it’s got 285 comments there already).

One question several people have been asking the author: “So Romney’s church is an issue but Obama’s church shouldn’t be?” *cough*

Ah well. As if the Guardian and the Age really need to remind us which side they’re on, or that their ugly prejudices and bigotry are never very far below the surface.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 3:57 am
Another shot fired in the New York “right to bear Big Soft Drinks” battle:

RT @McDonalds: .@MikeBloomberg We trust our customers to make the choices that are best for them.

McBeatdown.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 4:07 am
Adam Kane arguing with MK50 over specifics is kind of like Les arguing with Mark – both Adam Kane and Les claim victory but clearly are arguing from viewpoints they feel are rational but the factual foundations underpinning their opinions are scanty; whereas Mark has complete and detailed command over his subject matter and argues his position accordingly.

Hm. Who you gunna believe? It’s a toughy.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 4:11 am
the company’s fortunes have been pummelled by unprecedented levels of change in the media industry.

That would be the customer base getting tired of the mushroom treatment, I suppose.

perturbed

2 Jun 12 at 4:16 am
Potemkin’s Village

If Women Ruled the World… here

Grigory Potemkin

2 Jun 12 at 4:56 am
You have to question whether the republicans believe their own austerity rhetoric.
By holding the administration to ransom and extracting spending cuts, perhaps the republicans knew exactly what they were doing. Job growth stalling as the austerity kicks in.
Then blaming Obama for a stalled recovery and using their own miserable policies as a rod for Obama’s back.

Mark P

2 Jun 12 at 6:23 am
So, MarkP is running CNN’s narrative exactly.

He’s either one of their two dozen remaining viewers, or he buys his memes from an Australian media outlet which is.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 6:55 am
I have been following australia’s aggressive pursuit of climate change legislation despite the costs and whatever the temps here for months. I have been tracking australia’s education policies as well as australia seems to be aggressively adopting the various UN and OECD ed policies designed to ultimately push a Green Growth economy. Which of course would be centrally planned and managed and a terrible idea for prosperity.

If you are interested in tracking the bad global ed policies being pushed by the UN and OECD pursuant to the Education for Sustainable Development decade initiative that started back in 2006, here’s a link to a story I did yesterday. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/if-facts-wont-cooperate-there-is-always-pedagogy/

I am just getting started but if taxpayers in other countries in the Western developed world remain unaware of all this coordinated activity behind our back for a common goal, we are screwed.

And stuck with the tab. And wondering why the schools do not work. And out the diminished prosperity from stupid economic policies.

If the bureaucrats and politicians are pushing this behind our back and with our money on their dedicated networks, we have to rely on blogging to get the word out.

The media sure isn’t going to help.

Robin

2 Jun 12 at 7:44 am
Simon Crean telling people that the live cattle ban was taken in haste and without regard for the financial consequences.

So we have Marn, Gray, Bowen & Crean. Labor needs a forward pack of 8 to survive as a party. They’re halfway there.

Pickles

2 Jun 12 at 8:22 am
You can watch Stephen Colbert’s segment on the Great Soda Crisis of 2012 via Mediaite.

Pretty funny.

steve from brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 8:23 am
fmd
Worried MPs are reluctant to judge Thomson

Rudiau

2 Jun 12 at 8:42 am
In the piece you linked to, Steve:

On the other hand, food and beverage companies and restaurants have been conditioning Americans, for years, to consume larger and larger portions as a way to eke a few extra bucks out on their per-check average. That’s why you can order a half-rack of ribs for $20, or you can get double that for another five bucks. Who buys the half-rack? Now, who would buy the half-rack if it was $12?

Okay, so we need to set more legislation to solve this sort of “problem”, to make sure Teh Stupid People don’t get fooled into eating more than they really “need”, right?

As IT has asked you a few times now, and I’ll ask again:

Steve, as a nanny-state loving nancy boy, do you feel that government health/safety/scare programs are personally useful for you, or that they are primarily for others?

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 8:54 am
BusinessWeek: The U.S. Economy Slips Below the ‘Mendoza Line’

The U.S. economy has “slipped back under the Mendoza line,” JPMorgan Chase (JPM) Chief U.S. Economist Michael Feroli said Thursday, before the jobs report came out but after another discouraging report—the news that the U.S. economy grew at an annual rate of just 1.9 percent in the first quarter. The Mendoza line is baseball lingo that has made the jump into business. It’s a reference to Mario Mendoza, a shortstop for Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Texas in the 1970s and 1980s whose batting average (below .200 in five of his nine seasons) has come to stand for the dividing line between mediocrity and badness.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 8:57 am
They could always impose a gluttony tax instead of banning soda. A gluttony tax on all supersized meals would modify eating behaviours. Oh wait!!!….maybe this would also work if we had a carbon tax? and a shagging tax to reduce sexual disease, and a conservative tax to make us think differently.
A fat tax
thin tax
ugly tax
beautiful tax

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 9:02 am
Another excellent article from Conrad Black: Strategic, Economic Crises Edging Closer in a World Without Leadership

Following the greatest, most bloodless strategic victory in the history of the nation-state, when the Soviet Union disintegrated and international Communism collapsed without the chief protagonists’ ever having exchanged a shot, the quality of American leadership, in the public sector and in industry, academia, the media, and the bar and bench, has eroded and the greatest and wealthiest nation in history has become, in conventional parlance, insolvent, financing colossal federal deficits by a shell game of issuing Federal Reserve notes to the Treasury, its own parent, to buy federal-government bonds representing mountainous deficit spending with all the characteristics of money-supply increases.

The administration has done absolutely nothing even to suggest a method of reducing these deficits in 40 months of profligate incumbency, and the Republicans haven’t done much better.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 9:04 am
beautiful tax

As Michael Corleone said: “Just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in”

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 9:07 am
They do not have a cultural fabric able to support a post-Westphalian nation-state.

Yes. You are right. They are fundamentally still clan and war-lord oriented societies, interacting and contextualising each other only through a tribal Dark Age religious foundation text/s that has achieved no Reformation, let alone an Enlightenment (despite some useful Arabic medieval science, Islamic scholasticism prevailed). And we are rapidly shredding our own cultural fabric too. Gramsci’s long march through the institutions and back to serfdom.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 9:11 am
Whoa,

Oh my: Obama now below 50% against Romney — in California

Alex Pundit

2 Jun 12 at 9:14 am
President Obama Shuns Lech Walesa
The Polish Solidarity leader is “too political” for the administration.

The likelihood is that President Obama didn’t want Walesa in the White House because Walesa has made critical remarks toward the president’s policies and in 2010 warned that the United States was slipping toward socialism. But rather than taking the mature and diplomatic path and respecting Walesa’s right to have a differing perspective, Obama chose to shun his lifetime of achievements.

A devastating takedown by Rory Cooper.

Well worth a read.

Obummer is a small man.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 9:17 am
whereas Mark has complete and detailed command over his subject matter and argues his position accordingly.

Lol.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 9:36 am
Strange that no one here has commented on the fact that the Cat’s hero, George Zimmerman, has had his bond revoked for lying to the court.

Of course that won’t be enough to cause anyone here to question his version of events, not when the other guy is a black kid who smoked pot.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 9:37 am
What is hypothetical about what happened in Iran after the fall of the Shah?

What is hypothetical about what happened in Somalia after the fall of Siad Barre?

What is hypothetical about what happened in Libya after the fall of Gaddafi?

Iraq / Saddam doesn’t get mentioned much around here, although CL insists “Bush won”.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 9:42 am
If it came out that Trayvon Martin had an overdue library book, the mob here would be all over it as proof of his degeneracy.

But Zimmerman lies to the judge and it goes unnoticed here, let alone does it cause anyone to query his version of events.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 9:46 am
A bit shitty today Les?

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 9:49 am
Gee, Les, if I were you I wouldn’t bother with this mob.

blogstrop

2 Jun 12 at 9:50 am
Neither has Les commented on Zimmerman having his bond revoked apart from “lying to court”.

Send an email to Alan Dershowitz, Les and ask him for a retraction of his scathing criticism of Florida’s DA for even proceeding with this case.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 9:54 am
Rub some bacon on it, Les. It’ll come good.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 9:55 am
How about those atrocious job numbers out of the US, Les? That dog eating, cock gobbling, carpet kissing, clusterfuck Obama is toast.

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 9:57 am
You have to question whether the republicans believe their own austerity rhetoric.

By holding the administration to ransom and extracting spending cuts, perhaps the republicans knew exactly what they were doing. Job growth stalling as the austerity kicks in.

Ahahahahahaha.

Job growth stalling as the austerity kicks in.

It wasn’t stalling beforehand, of course. LOL.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 9:58 am
SCOAMF. Use his full proper title, IT.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 10:04 am
IT, for a person who likes to point out a distaste for the idea that laws are now letting men who “put anything in their mouth” get married, as you said to me the other day, you do seem to have quite the obsession with talking about Obama as your imaginary “c**ksucking” president.

Too much, I say. The humour, such little as there anyway, has worn off, and it is showing more about your imagination than anything else.

steve from brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 10:05 am
Sorry, I misquoted you: it was “gobbling” not “sucking”; at least it was today.

steve from brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 10:06 am
So the wacko prosecutors have pulled a bond stunt re Zimmerman – the same prosecutors Alan Dershowitz compellingly proved had lied in the original indictment for the second degree ‘murder’ of burglar, drug dealer, gang banger and fight club lout, “No_Limit_Nigga.”

Wow. What a surprise.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 10:09 am
Member of British Parliament Schools Paul Krugman: ‘I Find His View Reckless’

On Wednesday, appearing on a broadcast of BBC’s Newsnight, Krugman got a much-needed education from a conservative member of the British parliament who said she found his view of governments spending their way out of deficits “reckless”

As the segment began, Krugman was offering his normal nonsense about how austerity isn’t working in Europe, and that the key to getting the British economy going again is for the government to spend a lot more money it doesn’t have.

The host then said to conservative MP Andrea Leadsom, “I don’t know why you’re shaking your head. This is a Nobel Prize-winning economist.”

Leadsom responded:

I can’t believe that somebody as, you know, incredibly highly regarded could honestly think that the answer is to go and borrow more money. I mean, it is very simple mathematics, isn’t it? If you are in a hole, if you’ve overspent and overspent, spending more is simply not going to help. It’s going to make things worse. And you talk about austerity, but in reality, this is very, this is austerity lite as Ruth Lee was saying from the IEA. If you really wanted to sort our economy, you’d be doing it far faster – a much shorter, sharper hit to get us back rebounding much sooner than we can.

LOL

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 10:09 am
Apparently UNESCO is upset with our port developments adjacent to the Barrier reef. They have given us eight months, and then no doubt it will send us a strongly worded letter.

entropy

2 Jun 12 at 10:09 am
How’s your manscaping injury from the other day going there, Steve?

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 10:10 am
Too much, I say.

This is from a bloke who posts links to genital warts websites.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 10:11 am
Some great recent posts at Jo Nova
http://joannenova.com.au/

And the Media Watchdog
http://www.thesydneyinstitute.com.au/media-watch-dog/

Rafe

2 Jun 12 at 10:11 am
They are fundamentally still clan and war-lord oriented societies, interacting and contextualising each other only through a tribal Dark Age religious foundation text/s that has achieved no Reformation, let alone an Enlightenment

Two things. Firstly, no, there is little to no relationship between their being “clan and war-lord oriented societies” and their “religious foundation text/s”. Their problem is that they have never gone through what the Greeks and Romans, for instance, went through when they unified their clans/ tribes and managed to transform themselves into civil associations. Strangely, the appearance of Islam did nothing to diminish the authority of the clans in the Middle East and Central Asia. Secondly, sorry, but the Reformation was a call to literalism (and thus fundamentalism) in the interpretation of religious texts.

(despite some useful Arabic medieval science, Islamic scholasticism prevailed)

Again, two things, firstly, I would have thought that “Arabic medieval science” contributed to Scholasticism. Secondly, what is Islamic scholasticism?

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 10:12 am
Corruption from Gillard in the name of Gough Whitlam.

Well at least it fits.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 10:18 am
Sorry if i offended your delicate sensibilities, steve. For the record I have no desire to regulate “cock gobbling”.

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 10:19 am
Narrative derailed…

Politico reports: Bill Clinton: Mitt Romney’s business record ‘sterling’.

President Bill Clinton veered sharply off message Thursday, telling CNN that Mitt Romney’s business record at Bain Capital was “sterling.”

“I don’t think that we ought to get into the position where we say ‘This is bad work. This is good work,’” Clinton said. “The man who has been governor and had a sterling business career crosses the qualification threshold.”

Clinton also went on to say that Romney’s time at Bain Capital represented a “good business career.”

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 10:22 am
Simon Crean telling people that the live cattle ban was taken in haste and without regard for the financial consequences.

Hmmm. I read that yesterday and my reaction was ‘I don’t believe him’. This is not like Crean to come out and say such things against his pals. And why didn’t he say something at the time? Then I read further in the article that Crean won’t comment on “private conversations’ and neither confirms nor denies the statement.

Okay, but that was yesterday. Today he may come out and say something to the contrary.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 10:55 am
AK: You are also making no allowances for the culture: oversimplifying outrageously, it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

No. Wrong.
Yeah, I read your caveat that you’re simplifying but you’re still wrong.

That’s it?

OK, them please explain why you think I am wrong, given that I have lived in this sort of society and that is how they explained to me what I observed around me.

The corollary of your denial is that they are much more like our society: vertically structured Judaeo-Christian hierarchy states with only broad class bands and without a horizontally layered nested hierarchy of clans.

Now, that’s gonna be a heck of a shock to any passing Druze,…

So mind explaining what you think their societies are?

OCO @ 0352

Good point and one which went right over the head of AK. Sure there’s a civil war going on (regime vs ‘free syrian’ forces.

That’s not the only conflict. Watching the BBC report night before last it was obvious that the removal of central government power had loosed local communal violence as well. The villagers in the valley hated and had feuds against the villagers in the hills (who appear from the demograhic data I have available to be Kurds).

So you have, in that valley, at least once civil war and one communal war (and probably several more, plus inter-clan communal violence).

Sorting out who’s responsible for what is not easy and may not even be possible. But the locals will know.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 11:00 am
How about those atrocious job numbers out of the US, Les?

They are pretty bad.

And if you might recall my position has always been that Barry will win, unless employment is in the shitter. Employment is in the shitter, so the soulless, gaffe-prone, management consultant c___ with the magic underpants has a chance – although god knows what idiocies he will pronounce between now and November to screw himself.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:02 am
Good stuff, Les.

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 11:04 am
Look I don’t completely disagree with Iq49 re: Syria, although god knows the Assads weren’t the best friends of the Christians in Lebanon, and Lebanon certainly gives the lie to the Assads’ argument that they are decent folk trying to keep the lid on a tough situation.

the Syrians through Hezbollah largely created the civil war which they then stepped in to suppress, and they have done everything they can to stop a proper civil society and democracy arising in Lebanon. And Lebanon is a place where western style freedoms had a chance, but the Syrians screwed it.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:05 am
So the wacko prosecutors have pulled a bond stunt re Zimmerman

No, you moron.

The prosecutors make their case to the judge.

The JUDGE revoked his bond, not the prosecutors. The judge said Zimmerman “materially misled” the court. The judge has made no such judgments regarding the prosecutors.

Of course, CL, you have previously argued that US federal judges run “show trials”, which demonstrates your ignorance of, and contempt for, the US judicial system.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:12 am
Let me summarise, Les:

When Obama looks like losing, leftists will focus on obscure crimes in Florida.

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 11:15 am
If Obama had a son, he’d sound like Les.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 11:16 am
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced a $7 million grant to refurbish one of Australia’s oldest buildings, which will be used to house the Whitlam Institute, the Whitlam Prime Ministerial Library and a public art gallery named in honour of the late Margaret Whitlam.

hey should fund his lefie exravagance by selling Blue Poles which is now repued o be worh $40 million.

Splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 11:36 am
damn my 2eeee is broken

Splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 11:38 am
Watching the BBC report night before last it was obvious that the removal of central government power had loosed local communal violence as well.

Marko, that’s obvious to anyone with reasonable intelligence who’s studied insurgencies in the past half-century: Loosen the grip of an authoritarian regime and you have a bloodbath of score-settling and the revival of ancient feuds, the best recent example being the Balkans.
But no, the brain-damaged, infantile, starry-eyed left thinks the reality can been squeezed into a fairytale of human redemption with music by U2.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 11:38 am
Marko, that’s obvious to anyone with reasonable intelligence who’s studied insurgencies in the past half-century: Loosen the grip of an authoritarian regime and you have a bloodbath of score-settling and the revival of ancient feuds, the best recent example being the Balkans.
But no, the brain-damaged, infantile, starry-eyed left thinks the reality can been squeezed into a fairytale of human redemption with music by U2.

Hahhahahahahahahahhaah.

So G W Bush, Rummy, Cheney, Bill Kristol and rest of the Iraq war boosters – I’m looking at you, Currency Lad – are the “brain-damaged, infantile, starry-eyed left”.

Well, if the shoe fits I guess… fair enough.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:42 am
I mean Tom, you fucking moron, do you not recall that it was “teh left” that was making your exact argument against Bush et al in 2003?

You stupid twat.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:43 am
the best recent example being the Balkans.

No, the best recent example is Iraq post-2003 you brain-dead muppet. Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:44 am
This Tom is a real dummy. A blockhead. He just doesn’t understand the material.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:45 am
I also recall Bill Kristol et al accusing the left of “racism” for not accepting that the Iraqis, just like Texans and Vermonters etc, have a craving for “freedom” and “democracy” and will welcome the “liberators” with roses.

But now that piece of recent history has been white-washed… instead it is “teh left” that is brain-dead and advocating intervention… and we can all pretend Iraq never happened.

Un-fucking-believable.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:47 am
And so apparently Charles Krauthammer is one of the “brain-damaged, infantile, starry-eyed left [who] thinks the reality can been squeezed into a fairytale of human redemption with music by U2″.

Who knew.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:50 am
Why would we want to pretend Iraq didn’t happen?

We removed the late twentieth century’s worst socialist mass murderer.

And we won.

What’s really amusing is watching the left’s Good War in Afghanistan be lost by Obama and Gillard.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 11:50 am
Amusing for what it says aboyut their grotesque hypocrisy and incompetence vis-a-vis war victors Bush and Howard, that is.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 11:52 am
What’s really amusing is watching the left’s Good War in Afghanistan be lost

Really? You think it’s “amusing” to see allied troops killed and the taliban resurgent?

It’s “amusing” to you?

Spoken like the bludging parasitical chicken-hawk that you are.

Steve finds it amusing when planes crash into mountains and horses kick little girls.

You find it “amusing” when we lose wars.

Despicable.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:53 am
The judge has made no such judgments regarding the prosecutors.

That’s the jury’s job, WTC insurance boy.

But yes, the prosecutors ginned up a nonsense bond stunt because their case is widely acknowledged as being hopeless.

Zimmerman’s lawyer points out that his client believed his online defence fund was not his personal money. Sounds true. Is true.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 11:55 am
That’s the jury’s job

Bullshit. If the court thinks the prosecution has withheld exculpatory material, it has extensive powers to make remedial orders, including dismissal of charges and sanctions against the individual prosecutors personally.

You don’t know what you are talking about.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 11:57 am
Really? You think it’s “amusing” to see allied troops killed and the taliban resurgent?

No no. You’re the one who laughs at orchestrated mass murder and rape – as well as incinerating Japanese women and children, omelette boy. Remember?

Obama touted Afghanistan as the Good War.

He lost.

He’s probably relieved the pretence is over, though. After all, the man hated by SEAL Team 6 regards US troops in Afghanistan as murderers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrW4fOGIMVY

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 11:59 am
Ladies please. Remove the bricks from the handbags and remember it’s the weekend, a time for quiet contemplation.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 11:59 am
Mike Kelly invokes the Widow Thomson. Just back from another night looking for husband Craig through the knocking shops of Surrey Hills, she knees gently by the freshly dug grave. A tear falls softly on the young orphan at her feet.

Albo and Michael Williamson lean on shovels, talking quietly to themselves.

THE END.

H B Bear

2 Jun 12 at 11:59 am
Fuck off Cambria.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:00 pm
Les summarises Obama’s achievements in Afghanistan:

…allied troops killed and the taliban resurgent.

Heckuva job.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 12:01 pm
Let’s summarise the Currency Lad’s views on foreign policy:

- Churchill, FDR and Truman were war criminals
- Losing Afghanistan is “amusing”
- the traitor Campion is actually a miracle-working saint

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:02 pm
All class, all the time:

As Unemployment Jumps to 8.2%… Obama Holds Chicago Fundraiser With Poop-Chucking Cop-Hating Commie.

One of the fundraisers tonight is being hosted by liberal radical and Obama pal Marilyn Katz. This woman is a close friend of terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. She also is known for hurling nails and human feces at cops in the 1960s.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 12:02 pm
One of the fundraisers tonight

I can just imagine those fancy-pants leftists chowing down on their satay poodle skewers, dachshund carpaccio and great dane liver paté while America starves. Disgusting.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:06 pm
As the Obummer hopeychangey hotair balloon hisses, splutters and stalls leftists the world over seeing the writing on the wall mene, mene, tekel, parsin become even more deranged than usual.

It’s fun to watch

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
And they’d probably wash down their roast breast of labradoodle with a 36-oz Dr Pepper (non-diet) that any regular American would be put into prison for possessing.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
‘Tis good to be a Celebrity Prez. Man of the people.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:11 pm
It’s fun to watch

So CL thinks losing in Afghanistan is “amusing” and JamesK thinks ordinary Americans losing their jobs is “fun to watch”.

The truth comes out…

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:12 pm
Les didn’t you once fantasise about pushing elderly Jews in front of trains?

Infidel Tiger

2 Jun 12 at 12:15 pm
Les didn’t you once fantasise about pushing elderly Jews in front of trains?

No, you must be confusing me with someone else.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:16 pm
Bad News: Gitmo Prisoners Forced to Listen to Sesame Street Songs

Wimps. They shoulda been subjected to Gillard screeching in QT. Continuously.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:17 pm
JamesK thinks ordinary Americans losing their jobs is “fun to watch”.

No you lie

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:18 pm
Les exploding – (get off the metho) and Stevefb Liar banging on about cock. Nothing unusual there.

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 12:24 pm
Hey db

When do you jet off to NY? Are you getting married in the City, or out in the country? I went to wedding at St. Pat’s on 5th Avenue once. Extremely grand. Hope you’re not going in August – TOO f4ING HOT!

Peter Patton

2 Jun 12 at 12:24 pm
And Tiny Prancer prancing.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:24 pm
What’s wrong Les? Got piles?

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
Who sent us into Libya? The left. Who wants us to go into Syria? The left. Who loves the fascist theocracies of the Middle East? The left. Who supports the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt? The left. Who supports Islam as a way of destroying Christianity? The left. Who is importing boatloads of muslims into Australia? The left.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
Tom, did you agree with The Age and Clive Hamilton in opposing the war in Iraq?

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
Who wants us to go into Syria?

Charles Krauthammer, G W Bush’s go-to ideologue.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:30 pm
Rabz

Encourage Israel to start playing a more aggressive role at the Western border.

A leftist wouldn’t advocate such heresy…

A proper leftist would. Once upon a time a lot of them believed in progress. Now they believe that Muhammadanism is leftism. Poor dears.

Peter Patton

2 Jun 12 at 12:30 pm
Les just needs a hug.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:30 pm
Who sent us into Libya?

Ronald Reagan.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:32 pm
Les needs a doughnut cushion. Stevefb Liar needs testosterone

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 12:32 pm
Who wants us to go into Syria?

Charles Krauthammer, G W Bush’s go-to ideologue.

No you lie

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:33 pm
No JamesK you are the liar.

Krauthammer says we should not stay out of Syria:

If Obama wants to stay out of Syria, fine. Make the case that it’s none of our business. That it’s too hard. That we have no security/national interests there.

In my view, the evidence argues against that, but at least a coherent case for hands off could be made.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
Caveman Blogger Fights for Free Speech and Internet Freedom.

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/144140/

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
Are you going to host a muzzie bomb thrower in your house to further the cause, Les?

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
Uh-oh.

Meltdown imminent.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:38 pm
In my view, the evidence argues against that,

Les that quote proves my point not yours.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:38 pm
OK, them please explain why you think I am wrong

No, I already won the thread. How many times do I have to win it? This is like Groundhog Day.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 12:39 pm
No James I don’t know what your first language is but if you are going to continue posting here you should take the effort to learn how to read the English language.

Krauthammer said that the evidence argues against staying out of Syria. That is completely consistent with his ideology of “democratic realism” that he has expounded at length.

Admit that you were lying.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 12:42 pm
Les, blow the pillow up before you sit on it. I’m told it works better that way

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 12:46 pm
Dear oh dear.

Les the racistkiddie is back with more commentary from the shallow end of the intellectual pool, I see.

…brain-damaged, infantile…fucking moron… stupid twat…brain-dead muppet…. Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket…real dummy…. blockhead…brain-dead …
Un-fucking-believable…bludging parasitical chicken-hawk … kick little girls…Despicable…Bullshit…fuck off…satay poodle skewers, dachshund carpaccio and great dane liver paté …America starves. Disgusting

Well, let us talk about Iraq. let us talk about why it is not an example of the society collapsing because the repression was lifted.

Firstly, the Allies used the clans and tribes exactly as the Turks did, once they figured out what they needed. They recognised (just like the Turks did) their ‘patch’ and gave them control of it and most of its revenues. This enabled the clans and tribes to cut deals with each other to mutual benefit, so they all made money and earned the honour of being in control of their own areas. In return, the Americans enlisted the clans and tribes against a common enemy – in Iraq’s case foreign Jihadi and AQ.

These were crushed by having every man’s hand turned against them (local intel from the clans and tribes) while the clans and tribes avoided adding fuel to communal fires because it was the Allies who killed them in most cases. Where the clans and tribes did kill, they mostly killed foreigners. Where they killed a local jihadi from another tribe, they could square that because the Allies recognised the problem and provided them the necessary blood money.

The result is that Iraq now has the best governance of any self-ruled Arab state. Even better, mostly-foreign jihadi are still attacking them, which keeps the clans and tribes focussed on avenging their dead not against each other, but by funnelling information to the central government, which either does the killing or blesses the clan or tribe to do it or for having done it.

So what is now evolved is something remarkable. The Allies have turned the normal outcome of honour/clan/tribe from being something which degrades effective governance into something which supports it.

That’s the Bush administration’s doing, and it is an excellent outcome.

The reason I have not mentioned Iraq is simple, anyone who actually knows anything substantive about it already knows that Iraq is the exception that proves the rule.

Which also explain’s our pet racist troll’s pitiful caterwauling above.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 12:46 pm
No James I don’t know what your first language is but if you are going to continue posting here you should take the effort to learn how to read the English language.

Sad to see Les play stupid when he’s lost.

Krauthammer doesn’t want to go into Syria.

Your quote is of his critique of Obummer’s internal inconsistencies and hypocrisy.

Syria of strategic importance and america has many options other than “going in”.

Krauthammmer again:

First, a total boycott of Syria, beyond just oil and including a full arms embargo. Second, a flood of aid to the resistance (through Turkey, which harbors both rebel militias and the political opposition, or directly and clandestinely into Syria). Third, a Security Council resolution calling for the removal of the Assad regime. Russia, Assad’s last major outside ally, should be forced to either accede or incur the wrath of the Arab states with a veto.

Force the issue. Draw bright lines. Make clear American solidarity with the Arab League against a hegemonic Iran and its tottering Syrian client. In diplomacy, one often has to choose between human rights and strategic advantage. This is a rare case where we can advance both — so long as we do not compromise with Russia or relent until Assad falls.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 12:51 pm
Well, let us talk about Iraq. let us talk about why it is not an example of the society collapsing because the repression was lifted.

Heh. Nice wheel spinning. Iraq proves you wrong, and you know it. Anyway, don’t change the subject. Syria isn’t Iraq, it’s not Libya, it’s not Afghanistan.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 12:51 pm
JC:

Remove the bricks from the handbags and remember it’s the weekend, a time for quiet contemplation.

We are, JC, we are.

We are contemplating the little gobbets of squished troll sliding down the walls as a result of another enjoyable ‘Les pile-on’. He likes having the regulars beat seven kinds of crap out of him.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 12:53 pm
LEAVE LES ALONE.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 12:55 pm
Iraq is the exception that proves the rule.

“the exception that proves the rule.” I’ve always thought a dumb expression. Exceptions don’t prove rules. And anyway, what rule? The rule of yours that says brown skinned people are too tribal to understand FREEDOM?

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 12:56 pm
LEAVE LES ALONE.

I quite like Les’s contributions on Syria today. He’s got a clue. People who make sense shouldn’t be left alone.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 12:58 pm
AK:

No, I already won the thread. How many times do I have to win it? This is like Groundhog Day.

Oh, the usual lefty unilateral declaration of victory. How banal.

I told you all that the one thing AK cannot possibly do is change his worldview to accord with the facts.

Iraq proves you wrong, and you know it.

Oh, really? How so, oh titanic sage of the left? What does your brobdignagian intellect say?

We got ourselves a live one here, boys!

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 1:01 pm
with more commentary from the shallow end of the intellectual pool

Hey, I’m not got the guy who just derailed an entire thread and got wiped with (apparently) a lengthy exposition on the technical aspects of manlove.

The Allies have turned the normal outcome of honour/clan/tribe from being something which degrades effective governance into something which supports it.

That’s the Bush administration’s doing, and it is an excellent outcome.

The reason I have not mentioned Iraq is simple, anyone who actually knows anything substantive about it already knows that Iraq is the exception that proves the rule.

What? that makes no sense.

The Christians have all pissed off out of Iraq because they were being massacred.

I do not know why you would consider that an “excellent outcome”. Perhaps you were unaware this had happened.

And there is no “effective governance”. Whichever Shi’ite faction is most powerful rules, Maliki’s for the time being.

Iraq actually supports your argument about Syria, but you can’t admit it.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:03 pm
This is part of what Iq49 considers an “excellent outcome” thanks to Bush:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2010/11/al_qaeda_in_iraq_cla.php

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:06 pm
AK:

And anyway, what rule?

The rule that once a repressive regime is removed from an Arab state, it collapses into communal violence.

You missed point this how? Room temperature IQ, or profound ignorance?

The rule of yours that says brown skinned people are too tribal to understand FREEDOM?

Again, I reject your openly racist comment.

I have already stated very clearly that the interpretation of what the term freedom means in a non Judeao-Christian clan based society is different from that of individual liberty.

Seriously, how old are you, twelve?

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 1:06 pm
The rule that once a repressive regime is removed from an Arab state, it collapses into communal violence.

Iraq is not an exception to that rule.

How many Christians are left in Iraq?

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:07 pm
Les the racistkiddie:

What? that makes no sense.

Child, you can’t go through live both stupid and ignorant.

But at least you admit that you can’t understand even a point as simple as the one I made. And recognition of ones own intellectual limitations is the first step to overcoming them.

Even ones as mountainous as yours.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 1:11 pm
Who left the iraqis to their own devices saying the job is done folazy base political purposes Les?

And who is gonna leave the righteous battleground in Afghanistan after hobbling his very own surge idea?

Tell us again.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 1:13 pm
49

I do not understand why you consider Iraq an “excellent outcome” when there has been appalling communal violence, as evidenced by the imminent extinction of the Christian community there.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:17 pm
Who left the iraqis to their own devices saying the job is done folazy base political purposes Les?

“Base political purposes”? Because the American people didn’t want to support a permanent army of occupation to prevent the IRaqis from murdering each other on tribal, religious and ethnic grounds?

But Iq49 just told us Iraq was an “excellent outcome”, even though the Christians have been purged.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:19 pm
Again, I reject your openly racist comment.

You dunce, I was mocking your position not offering it as my own.
But you knew that, didn’t you? You’re not really that stupid but you pretended to not understand. You played stupid to derail the discussion and shunt me off the main track. That’s trolling.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 1:19 pm
You’re not really that stupid

Actually, he is that stupid.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:21 pm
But Iq49 just told us Iraq was an “excellent outcome”

Well it was until Dems do what Dems have always done.

Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

It’s what the did to Vietnam and Cambodia and as a result millions were slaughtered.

Leftist policies = Heaps more dead bodies Les.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 1:23 pm
I have already stated very clearly that the interpretation of what the term freedom means in a non Judeao-Christian clan based society is different from that of individual liberty.

Freedom’s a universal thing not just a Judeo-Christian fetish. Cultural relativists like you, all you end up doing is offering excuses for tyrants.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 1:23 pm
Cultural relativists like you, all you end up doing is offering excuses for tyrants.

Actually it’s interesting that 49 does have a strong cultural relativist and post-modern streak to him. I’ve commented on this before. For him, everything is relative and words never have a fixed meaning.

He is extremely right wing, but he also spent many years pushing paper in the public service, and that desk-bound naturally leftist mentality has infected his ways of thinking, if not his retrograde Colonel Blimpish political views.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:29 pm
From the wiki on Colonel Blimp:

Blimp would issue proclamations from the Turkish bath, wrapped in his towel and brandishing some mundane weapon to emphasize his passion on some issue of current affairs. Unfortunately, his pronouncements were often confused and childlike.[2] His phrasing often includes direct contradiction, as though the first part of a sentence of his did not know what it was leading to, with the conclusion being part of an emotional catchphrase.

Yep, that’s our Iq49 alright.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 1:30 pm
Two things. Firstly, no, there is little to no relationship between their being “clan and war-lord oriented societies” and their “religious foundation text/s”

DB – of course there is a relationship. A religion like Islam is the essence of dogmatic simplicity, it arose from tribal culture and is still fine for tribes and clans. This is why war-lords and clans like it. It doesn’t get in their way with a centralised hierarchical prieshood etc. The clan system can just proceed as usual. You say it is ‘strange’ that Islam didn’t diminish clan authority. It’s not strange, its what Islam is. Tribal in viewpoint.

Their problem is that they have never gone through what the Greeks and Romans, for instance, went through when they unified their clans/ tribes and managed to transform themselves into civil associations.

Well, duh. That’s is what I was suggesting, i.e. a clan society not a contractual civil society.

Secondly, sorry, but the Reformation was a call to literalism (and thus fundamentalism) in the interpretation of religious texts.

The essential points of the Reformation was that it was about the development of the separation of Church and State. Roman Catholics still haven’t much got over this. Yes, the Reformation was a textually fundamentalist movement as far as religious belief was concerned, you are right there, but it also diminished the social significance of the hierarchy of the Church and rreduced its role in society in general, allowing secularism, which Islam has never done.

I said – (despite some useful Arabic medieval science, Islamic scholasticism prevailed)

Dover-Beach said – “Again, two things, firstly, I would have thought that “Arabic medieval science” contributed to Scholasticism. Secondly, what is Islamic scholasticism?

No, for instance, the importation of the Arabic use of zero, hardly Scholastic stuff, and other empirical advances, e.g. in medicine. Very simply, scholasticism is ‘angels on the head of a pin’ sorts of argumentation. Islamic scholars still do it with their limited ability to interpret their texts, with their suppression of dissident sects and theologians, and with the emphasis they place in their educational systems on rote learning of texts. I believe Thomas Aquinas finally helped the Roman Catholic Church to evade some of the theological pitfalls of the worst of scholastic approaches in Christian theology – but CL would be the expert here.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 1:36 pm
Les has come out swinging with rapid fire posts like he’s on ‘roids’.

Oh no, Les has knocked himself out again!

John Comnenus

2 Jun 12 at 1:36 pm
Pity that running the USA wasn’t like fund raising? If it was Obama would be the greatest President of all time.

But even in that there’s a ‘teachable moment’ as Obama might say, and the lesson is this: When Obama raises money for his own private electoral purposes – he raises money easily. But when Obama and his government try and raise money for the country, through the public sector, they fail miserably.

And the lesson is that private enterprise aligned to personal goals does better than a public sector aligned to public goals.

John Comnenus

2 Jun 12 at 1:40 pm
AK:

You dunce, I was mocking your position not offering it as my own.

Which is the standard cop-out racists use when called on it.

Freedom’s a universal thing…

No, it is not. It is a concept which has to be interpreted , and is, by individuals and groups. Everything from their own values to their own culture and their perceptions of moral behaviour influence their interpretation. You seem to have just one interpretation and think that everyone else has to share it.

Aside from the hubris displayed, this is simply false. In a reality where the smallest entity which can offer protection, stability and security is a large clan the individual and his freedom is irrelevant, subservient to the clan’s freedom. Insisting on individual freedom can only weaken the clan.

You have never lived in such a culture, have you?

Cultural relativists like you, all you end up doing is offering excuses for tyrants.

Me, a cultural relativist?

No, I am an Imperialist. By definition, I cannot be a cultural relativist. I know that the cultures which have developed and implemented western liberal democracy are superior to every other culture on Earth.

And they agree with me, which is natural. After all, the flow of people is one-way only.

You are not too flash at this ‘basic understanding’ stuff, are you?

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 1:59 pm
Newman to UN: Drop dead.

We won’t shut down ports: Newman.

His comments come as the UN’s environmental arm UNESCO released a report that says rapid coastal development is threatening the health of the reef.

The report warns the reef could be listed as a World Heritage site in danger unless substantial changes are made to its management, sparking calls from green groups for the government to put a moratorium on massive coal port developments.

Mr Newman told reporters on Saturday that his government was committed to protecting the reef and the environment.

But he made it clear halting port and infrastructure development connected to the coal and liquified natural gas industry was not an option.

“We will protect the environment but we are not going to see the economic future of Queensland shut down,” Mr Newman said.

Later he added: “We are in the coal business. If you want decent hospitals, schools and police on the beat we all need to understand that.”

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 2:00 pm
Newman to Canberra.

Jc

2 Jun 12 at 2:07 pm
Newman for PM I tells ya.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 2:08 pm
he’s ours and he’s not going to Canberra. so there.

candy

2 Jun 12 at 2:10 pm
Greg Withers resigned Friday.

kae

2 Jun 12 at 2:11 pm
It’s Mabofest again, and once more all the true believers are glossing over the hard fact that the case was based on an islander culture where keeping plots of land identified to family groups had evolved. This is as opposed to mainland hunter-gatherer culture where walkabout was still necessary to find game in the next or further districts when it had been hunted out in the current one. Land and women were the two chief causes of inter-tribal warfare – that is, the land and the women they were using over time could vary.
As for terra nullius, it appears to have been the equivalent in legalese to a straw man in a cat argument – not real, but useful for the purpose of argument.

It’s arguable that most of the problems aborigines suffer from are the result of being between two worlds. They are no longer hunter-gatherers, but are not assimilated into the modern world. In quite a few ways, the model prior to the Wave Hill walk off, where they coexisted with graziers and had jobs around those properties as jackaroos or stockmen, served better as a halfway house than what now has replaced it. That destruction of a working model was down to the unions too!

Settlements which are too remote, too small, lack employment and lack coherent management have proven to be pits of degradation and despair. The Australian taxpayers have funded this disaster now for decades, while still being told by every visiting UN Rapporteur and Amnesty Big Noter that it is all just not good enough.

At some point there are hard decisions to be made how to rescue them from this blind alley. Noel Pearson’s vision for Cape York is a start, but will not fit everywhere. Like the mythical Green Jobs, employement for remote people isn’t going to happen in places that have no mining or tourism. Once again, it is evident that the “stolen” ones were in fact more often “rescued”, and they are now the most eloquent and effective communicators for their people. But the slur against Bess Price by Behrendt illustrates perfectly the division between those who simply want to improve the lot of their people and those who will continue to push an ideological cart with square wheels.

blogstrop

2 Jun 12 at 2:11 pm
Hey, is Thommo still alive?

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 2:14 pm
Very well said blogstrop

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 2:16 pm
Withers quit?

If he quit, he does not get the ~$400,000 payout sacking him would have triggered!

Newman, you magnificent bastard. The QLD taxpayer and ratepayer thanks you.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 2:17 pm
Which is the standard cop-out racists use when called on it.

So Les was right. You really are that dumb.

You’re the one who thinks brown people, er, “Arabs”, are incapable of understanding freedom and democracy. You’re the one who thinks that it’s better that they are oppressed by tyrants, because if they try to run the show, they’ll only make it worse for themselves. That’s the opinion that I was parodying.

No, I am an Imperialist. By definition, I cannot be a cultural relativist.

It’s possible to be both. You are both.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 2:18 pm
DB – of course there is a relationship. A religion like Islam is the essence of dogmatic simplicity…you say it is ‘strange’ that Islam didn’t diminish clan authority. It’s not strange, its what Islam is. Tribal in viewpoint.

Not at all. Ever heard of the terms ‘caliphate’, ‘ummah’, etc.; as I said, even Islam was unable in the end to diminish the authority tribal culture.

The essential points of the Reformation was that it was about the development of the separation of Church and State.

Absolute rubbish. The Reformation lead to the establishment of Protestant principalities, etc. for pete’s sake. The Treaty of Westphalia had nothing to do with the separation of Church and State. What the Treaty achieved was hermetically sealing what was done witinh a nation’s territory from international intervention, whether secular or ecclesiastical. In other words, minorities therein could no longer appeal to the Church or nearby Protestant principalities for assistance when persecuted. That is why international institutions like the UN, etc. rub-up against the post-Westphalian consensus.

No, for instance, the importation of the Arabic use of zero, hardly Scholastic stuff, and other empirical advances, e.g. in medicine. Very simply, scholasticism is ‘angels on the head of a pin’ sorts of argumentation.

What a caricature of Scholasticism. It wasn’t at all that sort of argumentation. Are you familiar with any of schoolmen of that era? Abelard? Anselm? Scotus? William of Occam? Aquinas? I’m sorry, Lizzie, but you seem to have swallowed the ‘Enlightenment’ caricature of medieval philosophy without even chewing.

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 2:20 pm
Lol

A recently discovered video shows Elizabeth Warren telling another tall tale about her family. The day after she announced her candidacy for the U.S. Senate, Democrat Elizabeth Warren told the convocation at the University of Massachusetts-Boston: ”My grandmother drove a wagon in the land rush to settle territory out west. It was 1889, she was 15 years old…She lived to be 94, to see her youngest grandchild–that’s me–graduate from college…”. The only problem with this story is that it’s not true.
Warren’s maternal grandmother died in 1969, the year before Warren graduated from college, and her paternal grandmother was only 2 years old in 1889.

Conserative bloggers…god bless’em

Jc

2 Jun 12 at 2:21 pm
Methinks Squaw Warren speaks with forked tongue.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 2:23 pm
AK:

You’re the one who thinks [standard lefty/racist projection follows]

Yawn. Another banal, bog-standard leftard cop-out. Put words into the other person’s mouth and pretend to be outrageously! outraged!

On this planet, the concepts of Imperialism and cultural relativism are mutually exclusive. How can one be both a cultural relativist and an Imperialist on your planet?

Again, you have just clearly demonstrated that you do not understand basic concepts.

This is quite entertaining.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 2:28 pm
Warren uses Da Slapper tried and tested technique of continuing to dig.

Scott Brown I’m sure, can hardly believe his luck.

JamesK

2 Jun 12 at 2:29 pm
Put words into the other person’s mouth and pretend to be outrageously! outraged!

I didn’t put words into your mouth. I summarized what you said. If there are differences, if there are misunderstandings, by all means highlight them.
There aren’t. I got it right. I accurately summarized your position.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 2:37 pm
Leftists are generally shallow people with no morals, so lying comes naturally to them. And they won’t be put off if one of their candidates is found to have lied about everything. That’s not a problem for them.

Fisky

2 Jun 12 at 2:43 pm
How can one be both a cultural relativist and an Imperialist on your planet?

Good point. Only a stupid and incoherent person could be a cultural relativist and an imperialist.

Only someone like Iq49.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 2:45 pm
Leftists are generally shallow people with no morals, so lying comes naturally to them. And they won’t be put off if one of their candidates is found to have lied about everything. That’s not a problem for them.

No you are lying.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 2:45 pm
On this planet, the concepts of Imperialism and cultural relativism are mutually exclusive. How can one be both a cultural relativist and an Imperialist on your planet?

They go well together. It’s a cousin of nihilism, which is a convenient philosophy if you’re into conquest. Cultural relativism justifies realpolitik and expedience. It says that there are no universal values. LIBERTY is just another cultural dimension to the relativist, a dot on the cultural landscape.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 2:50 pm
I support FREEDOM and LIBERTY for all. Nobody should live under the crushing boots of tyrants.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 2:52 pm
Nobody should live under the crushing boots of tyrants.

Ok, but you have only two choices. Assad or the Muslim brotherhood. Choose.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 2:59 pm
It must be said that in Australian terms, Gillard, Swann, Shagger etc, etc, have taken luvvie lying to an incredible new high.

Tiny Dancer

2 Jun 12 at 3:05 pm
Ok, but you have only two choices.

There are three choices, not two.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 3:17 pm
MK
Will in Brisbane on Wednesday.
Check your email.

Pickles

2 Jun 12 at 3:23 pm
AK:

I summarized what you said. If there are differences, if there are misunderstandings, by all means highlight them.

game on, then

You’re the one who thinks brown people,

Comment: Terminology not used in any post on this thread except yours. certainly not used by me.

er, “Arabs”, are incapable of understanding freedom and democracy.

Comment: False as stated. I have repeatedly said that Middle eastern Muslim and Christian cultures have a different interpretation of what ‘freedom’ means. I have not said at any point that their interpretation of ‘democracy’ is different (although it is). Your use of the words ‘incapable of understanding’ is merely a slur.

You’re the one who thinks that it’s better that they are oppressed by tyrants

Comment: A false assertion. I have said that the current situation in Syria is ‘bad’ and the Assad regime ‘vile’. I have then said that the situation which would follow removal of the regime would be worse.

, because if they try to run the show, they’ll only make it worse for themselves

Comment: false as stated. I have said that removing the regime will unleash communal violence exactly as it has in Libya and Egypt and lead to a worse situation, . You have denied this.

My exact words were: ‘It is not, it is how we got the unfolding humanitarian disaster in Libya and the even worse unfolding humanitarian disaster in Egypt. This is an inevitable outcome of very poor, timid policy derived from wishful thinking and a touchingly stupid belief[s]‘

and the criticism in that is of idiotic policies which result from the wishful thinking of people like you.

So you in no way summarised what I said. You made up a load of utter codswallop and ascribed it to me. Then you attempted to criticise me for it, and unilaterally declared some pathetic little ‘personal victory’ on that basis.

You apparently have no idea just how many times this banal, boring, bog-standard trick has been used by fourth-rate left-wing trolls on this site. les the racistkiddie, Steve the penis-obsessed semenologist from Brisbane, Handyspanker, THR of the low brows, Maxie the Squealboy… the list of such pitiful drones is very long. And now it includes you.

And dude, that’s hilarious.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 3:24 pm
Is there some way we can put Christians in charge of Syria? There is always this stupid debate over which brand of Muslim government we would like but it never seems to occur to anyone that we could just install a Christian government instead. Certainly Christian governments are always better than Muslim governments (and better still than Communist governments) so its weird that this option is never canvassed.

Fisky

2 Jun 12 at 3:25 pm
There are three choices, not two.

Nope, you’re either lying or delusional. There are only two.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 3:26 pm
Pickles, not on home system, work?

Yer on, anyway, I am in town.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 3:28 pm
Comment: Terminology not used in any post on this thread except yours. certainly not used by me.

Correct.

Iq49 uses different terminology.

He once stridently argued that he was free to use the word “n*gger” as much as he wants, because only “bed-wetters” would complain.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 3:29 pm
ahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

LATimes. Ya just gotta love’em.

Daum: Too brainy to be president?
Obama’s intellect doesn’t have much currency in the political climate of extreme partisanship and pandering to a very low common denominator.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-daum-obama-love-letters-maraniss-20120510,0,2453306.column

JC

2 Jun 12 at 3:31 pm
MK & Pickles
You want me to email the regs? Email me, not my work one as I don’t always access it at home.

kae

2 Jun 12 at 3:35 pm
The polite word for a black gentleman, especially one whose ancestors gratefully received the gospel and brand new surnames upon arrival in America, is ‘negro’. M50 should be aware of this.

Fisky

2 Jun 12 at 3:35 pm
Kae – yep, why not!

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 3:37 pm
Fisky, here is the response which got poor little Les the racistkiddie so discombobulated:

Racistkiddie’s thesis is that as various loons on hate sites (which he seems to know a disturbing amount about) use the term as one of racist abuse, then any use of the term must be racist abuse.

This is the oldest, and simplest fallacy in logic. Here’s how to prove this observation correct:

Premise 1: If A = B, Premise2: and B = C Logical connection: Then (apply principle of equivalence) Conclusion: A = C

In order for an argument to be considered valid the logical form of the argument must work – must be valid. A valid argument is one in which, if the premises are true, then the conclusion must be true also. However, if one or more premise is false then a valid logical argument may still lead to a false conclusion.

Now examine racistkiddie’s premises:

Premise 1: term ‘paleosimian’=a racist term (A=B)

and

Premise 2: use of a racist term = user is a racist (B=C)

Conclusion: any use of term ‘paleosimian’ = user is a racist (A=C)

Let us now use the rules of logic and examine racistkiddie’s premises.

Premise 1. This premise is false. How can a term (one word) be racist in and of itself?

Let us examine this issue. The most well known racist term is the word ‘nigger’ (A=B). By racistkiddie’s ‘argument’, any use of this term must mean one is a racist (B=C). Yet, Frederick Douglass, in his excellent ‘Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass: An American Slave ’, contains the following sentence: “”Now,” said he, “if you teach that nigger (speaking of myself) how to read, there would be no keeping him. It would forever unfit him to be a slave.”

According to racistkiddie’s ‘argument’, Frederick Douglass was a racist! (A=C) Frederick Douglass!

This is ridiculous on its face. Racist kiddie’s Premise 1 is therefore false. Therefore his ‘argument’ is false and anyone can easily prove that for themselves. …

So, what does makes the use of that or any word offensive? Continuing this example, if one turns to Professor Randall Kennedy’s book ‘Nigger: The Strange Career of a Troublesome Word’ (2002), it quickly becomes clear that the answer lies in the context in which it is used. This is true of every word, of course.

So I can certainly use the dreaded N word freely and clearly, without hint of any offence to anyone (except racistkiddie and similar trolls and bedwetters). Here is an example: “Last night I finished reading Conrad’s allegory about loneliness, his 1898 novella ‘The Nigger of the Narcissus’ “ or “When he was a slave, Frederick Douglass said his owner referred to him in the following manner “…that nigger (speaking of myself)…”

Even the lowest and most ingrained racist like Les will be hard pressed to impute adverse motives in these examples.

So it’s just Les doing his usual low-brow racist trolling. No huhu.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 3:44 pm
Nope, you’re either lying or delusional. There are only two.

Take it up with Krauthammer and the National Review, buddy. Hey why not ask for right of reply? I’m sure they’d love to know why they’re wrong.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 3:49 pm
Anyone interested in a Brisbane get together on Wed evening next pleae email me.

Anyone interested in a gathering at Toowoomba one evening next week – Spotted Cow or Dan Murphy (Federal?), please email me at Bloodnut Blog contact.

kae

2 Jun 12 at 3:50 pm
MK
Will in Brisbane on Wednesday.
Check your email.

You people actually choose to hang out with this bloviating fool? And have drinks and stuff?
Wow. Words fail. It takes all sorts, I guess.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 3:51 pm
I would be honored to have drinks with Marko. We need to discuss the looming transfer of the ruling class from Adam’s zombie children’s government back to the adults. Alas, not possible this week.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 3:57 pm
mk50, you goose, here’s what you said.

it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

This is cultural relativism, plain and simple.
Second. You have said, in your words, our concept of freedom does not apply to their culture. It blows that I have to remind you what you said.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
hahahahahaaa..

…bloviating fool…

He’s finally descended to the lower pit of squished troll Hades, and there’s the proof.

They all use that same term after their first squishing.

Stick a fork in him, he’s done like a dinner.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 4:02 pm
Adam, you’ll be delighted to learn that it’s not compulsory to socialise with blog commenters.

It is interesting.

kae

2 Jun 12 at 4:11 pm
mk50 There seems to be a cult of personality surrounding you here. Every time you get criticized, others either defend you directly or run interference. I think they believe you are smarter, and more connected, than you are. You have clearly run a snow job on the readers on this blog.

But for the record.
1. I’m the one who is advocating a standard neocon policy approach.
2. I’m the one who is using sources like nationalreview and debka.com to support my position.
3. I’ve provided extensive links to analysis to explain my arguments
4. you have not provided a single link. Instead, you just blow forth words that ‘sound right.’ This is the skill of an experienced bureaucrat, which Les claims you are. If you had provided any links it probably would have been to side-tracks anyway, like wikipedia listings of Arab tribes or some shit like that
5. I claim freedom is universal; you say it doesn’t apply in some cultures.
6. You are philosophically an imperialist; I am philosophically a libertarian;
7. you argue by ad hom (‘racistkiddie’)
8. you argue from authority (your own)

so not only do you closely resemble a left-wing totalitarian (ie culturally relativist imperialist whose support for liberty is soft); not only am I the authentic conservative in this discussion; it’s also fair to say that I’ve demolished your arguments. That people keep making statements that I refuted by linking to authoritative sources speaks volumes about the pathetic beta cult of mk50 that I find here.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
Oh dear. Mr Kane now insulting the discerning blog community. “You’re too dumb to know what’s good for you” he cries.
Tell us, are you related to Bob Brown or Finkelstein?

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 4:21 pm
Is there some way we can put Christians in charge of Syria? There is always this stupid debate over which brand of Muslim government we would like but it never seems to occur to anyone that we could just install a Christian government instead. Certainly Christian governments are always better than Muslim governments (and better still than Communist governments) so its weird that this option is never canvassed.

Damascus is prophesied to be destroyed in da bible, so naw, I don’t think Christians would be interested. I think Christians should get out.

coz

2 Jun 12 at 4:24 pm
I (am) the authentic conservative in this discussion

Hahahahaha!!! That’s good. Breathtaking, in fact.

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 4:29 pm
I’ll repeat for the slower among you, like Tom.

My position is consistent with national review and debka. Mk50 is not.
I’m a libertarian. mk50 is not.
I believe in freedom as a universal value. mk50 does not.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 4:33 pm
AK:

It’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

This is cultural relativism, plain and simple.
Second. You have said, in your words, our concept of freedom does not apply to their culture. It blows that I have to remind you what you said.

Oh dear. Standard banal lefty tactics again. This time, the cherrypick-and-twist.

I think you forgot the context. Funny that.

Here it is in full.

AK: It is absurd to argue that people in Syria don’t want to be free

No one has said this except you.

You can’t say that with any meaning until you define what freedom means to each Syrian grouping. It means something completely different to the Druze and Melkites as compared to the Sunni Arabs.

You are also making no allowances for the culture: oversimplifying outrageously, it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

Why? Because the clan is the smallest entity or structure that can offer security, backup and social support. This is quite normal in cultures where the only people who can be fully trusted are blood relatives. These cultures are by far the majority in human history.

I especially like the dishonest sneakiness of the way you changed part of a sentence to alter its meaning. I am obviously advancing your education as a troll.

So the full extract reveals your ‘twist’ to the cherrypick: You have said, in your words, our concept of freedom does not apply to their culture.

In fact, I did not say that at all, did I? I said that you have to look at how they interpret the meaning, and then have to make allowances for their culture.

Now that will all sail miles over your poor little head of course, so I’ll simplify it for you.

Before you bloviate on what other people think, troll, you should understand their point of view and why they think the way they do.

That’s obviously something you can’t understand, but give it a go, eh?

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 4:34 pm
Before you bloviate on what other people think, troll, you should understand their point of view and why they think the way they do.

Oh I understand you, buddy.
Don’t worry about that for one tiny second.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 4:38 pm
Take it up with Krauthammer and the National Review, buddy. Hey why not ask for right of reply? I’m sure they’d love to know why they’re wrong.

But I’m asking you, not them. Ball up and answer the question Adam.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 4:40 pm
I hope there are smarter Aussy conservatives around than you lot. Nice country but no wonder its going to crap.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 4:43 pm
I’m not a conservative, but I will align with them to throw these beasts out.

Stop insulting people and call victory to yourself, as it low rent and sounds stupid. Grow up.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 4:46 pm
AK:

But for the record.
1. I’m the one who is advocating a standard neocon policy approach.

Bully for you, and so what? What on earth does the ‘ideology’ assigned to a policy have to do with the real-world value of that policy?

2. I’m the one who is using sources like nationalreview and debka.com to support my position.

So what? We all use facts. Links are nice, but you can easily check the other guy’s facts.

3. I’ve provided extensive links to analysis to explain my arguments

fair enough, but again so what? If your premises are false, then your argument can’t be valid. And you did not first validate your premises (let alone your assumptions). There be dragons, oh troll.

4. you have not provided a single link. Instead, you just blow forth words that ‘sound right.’ This is the skill of an experienced bureaucrat, which Les claims you are. If you had provided any links it probably would have been to side-tracks anyway, like wikipedia listings of Arab tribes or some shit like that

Again, so what? Did you actually choose to validate any of the facts presented? You apparently think that link-counting is important. Why?

5. I claim freedom is universal; you say it doesn’t apply in some cultures.

No. You claim that YOUR interpretation of the philosophical concept of freedom is the only valid one. I say that people have different interpretations and that these are affected by culture (among other things).

6. You are philosophically an imperialist; I am philosophically a libertarian;

I doubt the latter.

7. you argue by ad hom (‘racistkiddie’)

No, I insult that odious individual who has revealed himself many times to actually be a racist. I have deliberately insulted you to test your mettle, skill at this repartee, and educational level.

Please note that I have NOT imputed racist motives to you (although I regard some of your pronouncements as dodgy) or issued you with an insulting nickname.

8. you argue from authority (your own)

You mistake argument from earned reputation for argument from authority.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 4:53 pm
DB – certainly I’ve heard of the Caliphate and the Uumah. Where are they now, except fantasies in the minds of essentially tribal-thinking people like Al Quaeda and the increasing number of Islamic believers who take these fantasies to heart within their tribes/clans still loosely aggregated into a ‘modern’ nation state? Historically, when a state system and Islam collided, they accommodated to each other (thus the Caliph or Akbar or a Sultan or whatever), but the non-contractual nature of the social systems, the strong Islamic ‘gemeinschaft’, which in origins and its essence is TRIBAL, still existed, survived, and restricted essential modernisations. It still does. Which is my point, and MK50′s which started this discussion.

DB – get a bit of historical perspective. As Jared Diamond elaborates, contractual social movements such as Protestantism (objectively, a facilitating ideology of independent personal thought not tied to the Roman Catholic Church) facilitated further development of small and independent principalities, which competed with each other, thus driving technological changes, particularly in weaponry, but also driving trade, without centralised interference. See also the extended Weberian debate on protestantism and the development of capitalism. However, your most telling omission in terms of the development of a contractual model of the state is to neglect completely the major Protestant split of the early modern period, that of Henry VIII with his Pope, marking the beginning of the slow movement to parliamentary democratisation and demystification of ‘the Anointed Royal’ that arguably began then in Britain. Separation of Church and State cannot be ignored when discussing the Reformation. It wasn’t just the Treaty of Westphalia that developed the modern independent nation state system. That Treaty merely clarified and assisted the situation. Give Henry his due, and live with it.

DB – not everyone on this blog is acquainted with such as Abelard, Anselm and Acquinas. Yes, I do know of these three thinkers in particular, have read some of their work and tried to look at secondary commentary on their theological significance. I am entirely self-taught in this, merely an interested wanderer in theological gardens especially with regard to some theories I have concerning Arianism, the European conversion from paganism, and the complex debates in the early Church concerning ‘homoussios’ and that strange emergent structure known as The Holy Trinity. So, I am not a complete novice in all of this. I have certainly ‘chewed’ on this philosophy, unafraid too to recognise some of its essential indigestibility. Note also that I’ve also read some of Roger Bacon, who was onto something, as well as a fair sampling of the Enlightenment philosophers, with whom many more are familiar than have tackled scholasticism: again, I am self-taught and not claiming deep academic expertise, but I am definitely not taking any easy path to acceptance of received opinion about historical processes. I am no more blinkered than thee, my friend, who is wearing some horse blinders at time, methinks. I often distrust experts, and I am wary of people who tend to castigate some commenter because they have a vested interest in something DB. I used a simple (and popular) example to show the extent to which bowdlerised scholastic thought impeded empirical work in science, as indeed did the real scholastic thought. You cannot deny that it did. Tell us more of Acquinas’s breakthroughs if you wish. We may learn something, and you may beware of the sin of Pride.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 4:53 pm
This is cultural relativism, plain and simple.

No, Adam, it is not. MK50 was referring to the cultural disposition of these societies to see freedom as something belonging to the wider group, not the individual.

There is nothing relativist about that. It is recognising the power of the group in determining how an individual may live.

It is not approving of that power as equal to the Western concept of ‘freedom’. THAT would be relativism.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 5:28 pm
I have deliberately insulted you to test your mettle, skill at this repartee, and educational level.

Classic.

Les Majesty

2 Jun 12 at 5:32 pm
Ah, Les, but you failed that test.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 5:38 pm
DB – certainly I’ve heard of the Caliphate and the Uumah. Where are they now, except fantasies in the minds of essentially tribal-thinking people like Al Quaeda

The fact that these ideas failed suggests that they couldn’t overcome the tribalist ethos of the peoples that were converted to Islam.

the strong Islamic ‘gemeinschaft’, which in origins and its essence is TRIBAL,

Look, I don’t think much is gained by importing European terms to describe communities that are not even feudal.

DB – get a bit of historical perspective. As Jared Diamond elaborates…

You are kidding; Jared Diamond? I really can’t stand these grand ‘historical’ perspectives.

such as Protestantism (objectively, a facilitating ideology of independent personal thought

Yes, we all saw this in Calvin’s Geneva, for instance.

However, your most telling omission in terms of the development of a contractual model of the state is to neglect completely the major Protestant split of the early modern period, that of Henry VIII with his Pope, marking the beginning of the slow movement to parliamentary democratisation and demystification of ‘the Anointed Royal’ that arguably began then in Britain.

C’mon Lizzie, if Henry VIII’s actions indeed mark such “a slow movement”in this direction, it was certainly inadvertent, since he combined in his office temporal and ecclesiastical authority.

Separation of Church and State cannot be ignored when discussing the Reformation

Did I say it could?

I used a simple (and popular) example to show the extent to which bowdlerised scholastic thought impeded empirical work in science, as indeed did the real scholastic thought. You cannot deny that it did.

Yes, a “simple (and popular) example” most probably invented by polemicists in the 17th C. And, no, medieval philosophy actually gave rise to modern science. See, for instance, this and God and Nature by Lindberg and Numbers

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 5:53 pm
‘Buddy’ Franklin kicks a bakers’ dozen. Brilliant!

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 6:05 pm
whereas Mark has complete and detailed command over his subject matter and argues his position accordingly.

Lol.

Face facts, Les. You’re the class clown. Often you’re good at it. But often you don’t know shit. And this is at its most glaringly obvious when you go up against MarkL on substantive geopolitical issues.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 6:08 pm
Paging JC

Hi JC, did you ever see the movie Too Big To Fail? If so, was it more fact than fiction or another lefty fantasy?

Thanks.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 6:14 pm
Naaa, same old crap Gab.

Funny how the US basically band-aided its banking system on a weekend and these absolute morons, these idiots and clowns in euroweenie land are still bumbling around for the past 3 1/2 years.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 6:17 pm
And this is at its most glaringly obvious when you go up against MarkL on substantive geopolitical issues.

Please provide an example of Les being schooled on geopolitical issues.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 6:19 pm
Well I’m outvoted, JC. Apparently we’re watching the movie anyway. I tried to tell ‘em. ~sigh~

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 6:20 pm
Don’t forget I was a star on PBS’s Frontline about the meltdown… or at least my nose and specs were. Note i was wearing a decent pair of Oliver People’s at the time too.

Recently received calls from Hollywood agents who saw my appearance, but of course I knocked them back.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 6:21 pm
Adam… Kane

Stop jumping over questions that were left for you to answer as though they are there. As I said ball up and stop being a fucking coward.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 6:22 pm
Recently received calls from Hollywood agents who saw my appearance

Do they want you to play Danny in the Life of DeVito?

~runs away very quickly~

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 6:23 pm
Look I don’t completely disagree with Iq49 re: Syria

Oh you don’t entirely disagree? How terribly magnanimous of you. It’s such a relief to know that you don’t entirely disagree with MarkL’s highly detailed assessment of the sectarian cleavages in Syria; a subject which I’m certain you had prior mastery over. No doubt MarkL will be incredibly flattered at your partial concurrence.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 6:24 pm
DB – ‘couldn’t overcome’ the tribalist ethos, or were actually in tune with the tribalist ethos? I go for the latter.

Theorisers such as Jared Diamond cannot be merely dismissed with the wave of a hand, especially when they get particularist, as with the development and geography of small kingdoms. There are many different ways of making a valid analysis.

I’ll grant you ‘gemeinschaft’, let’s just call it tribalism/clans? You admit these societies ‘weren’t even feudal’. They still aren’t in their basic social institutions, which are aligned to tribalism and Islamic tribal formulations.
My point stands.

Protestants were as rigidly oppressive as Roman Catholics could be. No-one denies this. But the EFFECT of protestantism was to promote independence of thought in many arenas, not just in religion.

Re our friend Henry V111. Just because an effect is ‘inadvertent’ does not mean it did not take place. I do point out that it was merely initiating a long and slow process.

Re separation of Church and State in the Reformation. Sin of Omission for you DB. You did not mention it.

On Scholasticism and early science, I have already ceded you Roger Bacon. Sorry, but I can do no more in a short discussion and I have to go cook and pacify an Ape. I will however admit that it is a complex area that is worthy of, indeed requires, more analysis and discussion by historians. Islamic ‘scholasticism’ is I will admit a bit like ‘gemeinschaft’, a transference of a concept where the language may produce unintended consequences that do not assist discussion, because red herrings start swimming. Would you disagree that Islamic theology seems rather stuck in a rut and has not yet found its Aquinas, at the very least (no insult intended by my earlier mispelling of Aquinas by the way)? Perhaps not a great blog topic unless on a separate thread with expert witnesses.

I trust you realise I was making a theological joke about the Sin of Lucifer. Not everyone is always on my wavelength.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
Do they want you to play Danny in the Life of DeVito?

Lol

No, just my left eye and specs. hahahaha

JC

2 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
mk50, you goose, here’s what you said.

it’s a clan-based honour culture and ‘western’ views of freedom as ‘an individual liberty’ do not apply. Freedom in such a society applies not to individuals but to the clan.

This is cultural relativism, plain and simple.
Second. You have said, in your words, our concept of freedom does not apply to their culture. It blows that I have to remind you what you said.

Aren’t you embarrassed to have such a risibly unsophisticated point of view?

Please provide an example of Les being schooled on geopolitical issues.

Look, if you aren’t paying attention it isn’t my fault. Just read up. There are several comments on this thread where Les has been schooled. What’s galling he thinks no one notices when pretends he knew it all along with his “well I don’t entirely disagree with you” schtick.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 6:35 pm
Well, good to see Greg Withers (aka Mr Anna Bligh) is now the former head bureaucrat of QLDs climate change Dept. Well done CanDo.

I bet this bloke Blair Comley is busily trying to “negotiate” a new longterm contract. Hope Abbott does a CanDo on him, but Abbott needs to be careful as Comley is a man with an impeccable record.

Blair was awarded the Public Service Medal in the 2012 Australia Day honours list for his outstanding contribution to public policy, particularly in the areas of carbon pricing and emissions trading, tax policy design and debt management.

LOL ,should be on top of abbotts ” TO GO!! ” list.

Jumpnmcar

2 Jun 12 at 6:46 pm
highly detailed assessment of the sectarian cleavages in Syria

Another member of the cult of mk. Dude, he listed some Syrian ethnicities that he found on wikipedia. Nothing he said was a “detailed assessment”.

No doubt MarkL will be incredibly flattered at your partial concurrence

I guess you mean mk50. Anyway narcissists enjoy flattery so you’re probably right. But it’s a mystery why Les or me or you would care what he thinks.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 6:49 pm
There are several comments on this thread where Les has been schooled.

There isn’t a single one.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 6:53 pm
You’re rather stupid, Adam Kane. I don’t think I’m going to waste my time on you anymore.

Oh come on

2 Jun 12 at 6:53 pm
I can understand that. After all I won this thread hours ago and we’re just engaging in a mopping up operation now. Think I’ll call it quits myself.

Adam Kane

2 Jun 12 at 6:57 pm
DB, read the review of Hannam’s book in your link. Nothing new for me there, as I have read quite a few of the more recent popular historical works that are busy re-interpreting medieval life to correct some old saws about it, such as that everyone believed the earth was flat, or that nothing new was invented.

I may get Hannam’s book on Kindle to look at what it says specifically about theological treatments though. I think the wriggle room may be more limited there, but am prepared to keep an open mind about it.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 6:59 pm
Answer the question Adam.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 7:00 pm
After all I won this thread hours ago

We have a adolescent in our midst. I won, I won, I won.

FFS.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 7:01 pm
Does Adam like olive oil?

Tal

2 Jun 12 at 7:05 pm
JC
I didn’t realise that the open thread was for winning.

kae

2 Jun 12 at 7:09 pm
Adam Kane is very silly. Can we arrest and execute him please?

Fisky

2 Jun 12 at 7:10 pm
But the EFFECT of protestantism was to promote independence of thought in many arenas, not just in religion.

This is mere assertion. It is probably the case, for example, that independence of thought was more readily exercised in medieval universities than in universities during the 17th C (I’ve heard historians of science certainly make this claim).

Would you disagree that Islamic theology seems rather stuck in a rut and has not yet found its Aquinas, at the very least (no insult intended by my earlier mispelling of Aquinas by the way)?

Herein lies my principal disagreement with you, your use of historical short-hand, which themselves are almost caricatures even of European history, to interpret the history of Islamic thought, etc. Islamic thought will not develop the same way in which Christian thought did because they are different traditions situated in differing intellectual settings. I, however, would like to see the development of a distinction between civitas and ecclesia within the Islamic tradition (Scruton’s recent book, The West and the Rest makes some excellent points regarding this point), something which Christianity has had from the very beginning.

I have to go cook and pacify an Ape.

AbbottAbbottAbbott

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 7:16 pm
DB, read the review of Hannam’s book in your link.

Lizzie, try also Lindberg’s classic, The Beginnings of Western Science, 600 B.C. to A.D. 1450 (1992)

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 7:21 pm
It’s the standard uncomprehending narcissists hold themselves to, Kae. They think it’s all about them.

That’s why they just do not get the flavour of the Cat community.

Sources, AK? UN, fragilestates.org, CIA world fact book, world bank data etc etc. All the normal ones. It does not surprise me that this data also appears in wiki, the country stuff in there is nearly all from the CIA World fact Book site. You did not know this?

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 7:21 pm
For example, look at things like this (http://www.fragilestates.org/2012/02/20/syrias-ethnic-and-religious-divides/) then look at land use and population density distributions.

A glance at the religious demography, for example, explains the Alawite interest in Lebanon, and why the Druze are so very important.

You did not know any of that, did you?

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 7:25 pm
Adam Kane, you are doing what the mainstream media does and looking at the conflict in Syria though Western eyes. As Mk50 says, what is happening in Syria is a continuation of a long running conflict between the Sunni Muslim majority and the Alawite minority (Assad and the military). The Alawite sect is a branch of Islam, but Alawites are not evened regarded as being proper Muslims by many Sunni, they resent being ruled over by those they see as non-Muslim. To understand the basis for the conflict you need to understand that.

There were similar major uprisings in the 70s/80s against Assad’s father by the Muslim Brotherhood in which tens of thousands were killed. It was not about Western ideas of ‘freedom’ then, it’s not likely to be much different now. Be sure that if Syria achieved democracy it would just turn the tables – it would be Alawites being persecuted and slaughtered (not to mention the Christians). There are no easy answers.

To quote Daniel Pipes (from 1989):

The Islamic religion reserves a special hostility for ‘Alawis. Like other post-Islamic sects (such as the Baha’is and Ahmadis), they are seen to contradict the key Islamic tenet that God’s last revelation went to Muhammad, and this Muslims find utterly unacceptable. Islamic law acknowledges the legitimacy of Judaism and Christianity because those religions preceded Islam; accordingly, Jews and Christians may maintain their faiths. But ‘Alawis are denied this privilege. Indeed, the precepts of Islam call for apostates like the ‘Alawis to be sold into slavery or executed.

…

The widespread opposition of Sunnis – who make up about 69 percent of the Syrian population – to an ‘Alawi ruler has inspired the Muslim Brethren organization to challenge the government in violent, even terroristic ways. Although unsuccessful until now, the Brethren have on several occasions come near to toppling the regime.

It appears inevitable that the ‘Alawis – still a small and despised minority, for all their present power – will eventually lose their control over Syria. When this happens, it is likely that conflicts along communal lines will bring them down, with the critical battle taking place between the ‘Alawi rulers and the Sunni majority. In this sense, the ‘Alawis’ fall – be it through assassinations of top figures, a palace coup, or a regional revolt – is likely to resemble their rise.

Andreas

2 Jun 12 at 7:40 pm
JC
I didn’t realise that the open thread was for winning.

I know, but the shorts wearing adolescent seems to think so.

I won I won. Look mummy I won.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 7:40 pm
JC, I meant to point this out earlier, but the Catallaxy participant who absolutely puts Adam in the shade in the matter of claiming himself victorious in absolutely every argument he has ever engaged in over the last 8 years is your buddy CL.

Yet, somehow, CL’s triumphalism does not attract your attention. Funny, that.

steve from brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 7:44 pm
Douchebag Obama leaked Stuxnet details – claiming credit, of course – and is rightly condemned for it by John McCain.

What he wanted: headlines like the Herald Sun’s:

Stux to be you: Barack Obama behind Stuxnet virus – report

Pardon? Who was behind the Stuxnet virus?

US President Barack Obama was behind the Stuxnet cyber attack on Iran’s nuclear enrichment facilities last year.

Obama accelerated the attacks – codenamed “Olympic Games” – that began during the Bush administration, even after the Stuxnet virus escaped the plant and caused cyber destruction around the world, the New York Times reported.

AP:

The operation, begun under president George W. Bush and codenamed “Olympic Games,” is the first known sustained US cyberattack ever launched on another country, employing malicious code developed with Israel, according to the Times.

So on top of waging and winning the Iraq War and exterminating Al Qaeda worldwide, George W. Bush launched Stuxnet on Iran.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 7:52 pm
Yet, somehow, CL’s triumphalism does not attract your attention. Funny, that.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, Stepford.

Is spite the worst trait in a beta male? Passive aggressiveness mixed in with spite is a fucking awful trait combo. Have it seen to.

Adam Able has no fucking idea what he’s talking about. I put this reasonable question to him, which was, if there was just Assad’s regime and the religious nutballs, which one would he choose to run Syria.

The cowardly little runt answered the question by sending me to some US columnist suggesting he agreed with Cane&Able thereby avoiding it. He’s as cowardly as you are step.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 7:53 pm
The difference, Steve, is I actually won.

C.L.

2 Jun 12 at 7:54 pm
Douchebag Obama leaked Stuxnet details – claiming credit, of course – and is rightly condemned for it by John McCain.

What a fucking first rate prick. So he leaked details of a mission like that to someone garner approval of the electorate? He really has to fucking go. Despicable turd.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 7:55 pm
“This is mere assertion”
So is your claim. There is a lot of scholarship around portestantism, independent thought and the rise of capitalism which you ignore.

“Islamic thought will not develop the same way in which Christian thought did because they are different traditions situated in differing intellectual settings.”

Well, duh. No kidding.

“I, however, would like to see the development of a distinction between civitas and ecclesia within the Islamic tradition”

Me too. With bells on, as I have made clear. The rise of the West is founded on the old Roman civitas. And you talk about the transference of traditions and MY use of historical ‘shorthands’ out of context!! You do it too. In my view, there is NO islamic ecclesia yet to speak of. And the lack of civitas is what the argument started with; nothing but tribal and clan affiliations.

“have to go cook and pacify an Ape.

AbbottAbbottAbbott”

Well, you come and do it then. He’s getting rather vocal. I wouldn’t vouch for your safety though, calling me names like that.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 7:55 pm
ps, DB. I’ve actually shown willing to read further and keep and open mind to new scholarship if it is on topic. You haven’t removed the blinkers much. Live and let live, sweetie, as academic twerpiness doesn’t do well with me.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 7:59 pm
I think tonight is the first time I have ever tried to cook anything with filo pastry.

It’s rather fiddly, all this brushing with butter.

It’s a spinach and cheese pie (like the type you can buy in every cafe/deli in Australia). Never tried to cook my own before, though. It’s currently resting, as the recipe indicates it should.

steve from brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 8:00 pm
Thanks for letting us know Stepford. I was wondering when you’d finally get around to cooking some filo-pastry, as it’s very delicate. I was sure you could handle it though.

JC

2 Jun 12 at 8:05 pm
Not just a musical genius
http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2012/05/25/what-jack-white-can-teach-us-about-economics/
ht mankiw

Pedro

2 Jun 12 at 8:05 pm
Ah yes, Andreas.

The Hama Rules.

Mk50 of Brisbane

2 Jun 12 at 8:13 pm
Too right Pedro, fuck the lazy greedy whining middle men.
Leaches they are.

Jumpnmcar

2 Jun 12 at 8:28 pm
Those lovely veal chops are almost ready and the vegies including some smoke-fried zucchini are ‘resting’ in the oven. The air extraction system doesn’t work well and we’ve been having a tea-towel waving competition to stop the smoke alarum going off. But rest assured, my mind is on medieval scholasticism!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 8:30 pm
… back to the cuisine grindstone.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 8:31 pm
So is your claim. There is a lot of scholarship around portestantism, independent thought and the rise of capitalism which you ignore.

Yes, I’m aware of it, Lizzie, it’s just that quite a bit of that scholarship uncritically accepted the polemical writings of Protestants following the Reformation. So my remarks are not ignoring it so much as responding to it.

ps, DB. I’ve actually shown willing to read further and keep and open mind to new scholarship if it is on topic. You haven’t removed the blinkers much. Live and let live, sweetie, as academic twerpiness doesn’t do well with me.

Having myself had similar views to yourself only a decade or more so ago, the blinkers have been off for a quite a long while because of subsequent reading.

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 8:34 pm
Lizzie,
(Sorry for the cooking lesson boy’s)
gotta know, how do you smoke fry zucchini, sounds delicious.

Rudiau

2 Jun 12 at 8:41 pm
Just popping in. Dover and Lizzie arguing it out expertly. Now that’s what I like to see, some high-brow dueling at 30 paces.

Carry on.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 8:43 pm
Ah yes, Andreas.

The Hama Rules.

Yeah, not a pretty event (imagine the leftists’ squeals if that happened again). And yet that massacre was itself a response to a bunch of Alawite military cadets being massacred by Sunnis. And so it goes on.

For insight into the Sunni/Alawite divide in Syria there’s a good article on the division in Tripoli here: ‘Ali the Muscle‘

A quote:

A young man called Amr was sitting near me on a plastic chair, getting a shoulder rub from his friend. When he learned who I was and where I had been, he spat on the ground.

‘The Alawi are dogs. In fact, that’s an insult to dogs,’ he said. ‘We are going to deal with them. Soon.’

His massaging friend told me he’d just come home from a long stretch living in Sydney.

So someone who has spent time in the West speaks in those terms. Really makes me believe every-day Syrians are going to frame their conflict with Assad as being about Western-style freedom and not at all about the continuation of a long-running sectarian conflict.

Andreas

2 Jun 12 at 9:10 pm
The Hama Rules.

Harsh but effective

Irving J

2 Jun 12 at 9:13 pm
What annoys me.
Listening (briefly) to talking heads on morning TV summarising Asange’s extradition as “They’re doing it because he published the video of the X attack in which the journos were killed.” And the noddies and chorus of agreement that Asange hasn’t done anything wrong and it was all a set up to nab him for something.

Where do these morons get their ideas from? They are stating it as fact. It is not. It is their supposition and that of the luvvie media.

Arrgh!

kae

2 Jun 12 at 9:15 pm
Val, Splat
Anyone else interested in a meet in T’womba next week, evening?

kae

2 Jun 12 at 9:22 pm
Have we not had a Saturday Night dog video yet?

SALSA DOG

…or as Obama calls it, LA BOTANA.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 9:29 pm
The rule of yours that says brown skinned people are too tribal to understand FREEDOM

Yes, Mark. Why do you hate Latinos so?!?!

#FreePuertoRico!

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 9:35 pm
I’ve heard of the Caliphate and the Uumah. Where are they now, except fantasies in the minds of essentially tribal-thinking people like Al Quaeda and the increasing number of Islamic believers who take these fantasies to heart within their tribes/clans still loosely aggregated into a ‘modern’ nation state? Historically, when a state system and Islam collided, they accommodated to each other (thus the Caliph or Akbar or a Sultan or whatever), but the non-contractual nature of the social systems, the strong Islamic ‘gemeinschaft’, which in origins and its essence is TRIBAL, still existed, survived, and restricted essential modernisations. It still does. Which is my point, and MK50′s which started this discussion.

Lizzie, the ummah is the global community of muslims. Muslims here in Melbourne are a part of the ummah, as are muslims over in the ME, and in the US and in Europe. While there may not be a caliphate at the moment, that is not for the lack of effort on the part of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Hizb ut Tahrir if you want to have a look closer to home.

With respect to a state system and islam ‘accomodating to each other’, the only accommodation is of the state to islam. It goes in one direction, and that is down.

While the islamic population is miniscule, it keeps its collective head low. As it builds up a presence, so it also builds up in noise, with requests for concessions, leading to demands and then threats.

We have seen this all over the place, and it’s not going to change any time soon, since it’s been working for over a thousand years.

Lebanon used to be a christian country, for example, and look at it now. Heck, Egypt was a christian country for centuries, and now where is it?

Next time there’s a Hizb ut Tahrir seminar in your neighbourhood, I highly recommend you check it out. I attended one of their Khilafah conference things a few years back (only lasted half a day – I’m a wuss, I admit) but that was enough to get the picture.

nilk

2 Jun 12 at 9:45 pm
F#&k the bombers!

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
Mighty Demons!
About time we got a soft game.

Rafe

2 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
Tough luck, Sinc. We feel your pain. Hahahahahahah!!!

Tom

2 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
Now the are doing as well as my team in Sydney, the mighty Eels.

Rafe

2 Jun 12 at 10:12 pm
I’m with Nilk – welcome to Melbournistan

Carpe Jugulum

2 Jun 12 at 10:14 pm
OK, DB. Truce. For the time being. Because belief in the Holy Trinity is not important to me, although I am interested in the development of the concept, we probably approach the scholastic material from rather different perspectives as to what is significant and valuable let alone what is deemed to be a convincing argument in that particular theological literature. It is the Trinitarian material that I’ve mostly read this stuff for though, so I will leave it open that I could be convinced the scholastics were more useful on other issues and in other ways.

Now – about smoke-fried zucchini.

I had these in a waterside restaurant on Lago di Como. The recipe is my interpretation of how they did it.

Thin slice lengthways the zucchini.
Salt lightly, and after a few minutes use a paper towel to wipe away excess moisture which will seep out. (If you want them less salty, swill them too).
Disable your smoke alarm.
Heat a griddle pan to lightly smoking with a small amount, not a swamp, of olive oil. (Alternatively, and probably better, use an open grill).
Whack on the zucchini and fry under heat, turning as they char up in stripes on the griddle.
Best served immediately, a bit crispy, but can be allowed to sog up keeping warm in the oven, as they are still smokey and tasty, just a bit softer.

Can be garnished with flakey medieval scholasticism or powdered unicorn horn. A useful incantation prior to eating is AbbottAbbottAbbott, just in case things don’t cook up as expected.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 10:16 pm
Lizzie, reconnect smoke alarm, don’t forget that.

Jumpnmcar

2 Jun 12 at 10:22 pm
Lizzie,
Thank you, will try next Saturday night. Much appreciated.

Rudiau

2 Jun 12 at 10:23 pm
.
.
.
Disable your smoke alarm.
.
.
.

Wait, what? This is SOP at FBD (Forward Base Dog) no matter what I’m cooking.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 10:23 pm
With respect to a state system and islam ‘accomodating to each other’, the only accommodation is of the state to islam. It goes in one direction, and that is down.

Too true, Nilk, especially when it is Western states with large internal muslim populations. In the quote from me, I was referring to the historical emergence of of “Islamic” states, which I argued were still fundamentally tribal in nature, because so is Islam. The Ummah is merely the tribal identity in a sort of very loose ideological confederation, where Islam is the binding force in a network of affiliations rather than relating to a defined and bordered entity. It defined the areas of muslim conquest and influence, and has been seized on by Islamic radicals to muster the troops to the cause.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 10:33 pm
Kae.
I’m at farmfest mon-wed. Could do monday night or tuesday night.

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 10:34 pm
Sdog,
lol
Yeah, they are a pita located in the kitchen.

Rudiau

2 Jun 12 at 10:35 pm
Thanks Jump. A useful reminder. I am have no desire to be char-grilled myself when asleep in my bed.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 10:42 pm
Thanks Jump. A useful reminder. I am have no desire to be char-grilled myself when asleep in my bed.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 10:42 pm
.. oops, I have, not I am

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 10:42 pm
The Ummah is merely the tribal identity in a sort of very loose ideological confederation, where Islam is the binding force in a network of affiliations rather than relating to a defined and bordered entity.

But the Ummah can’t be tribal because tribal societies are bound by kinship networks, and it purports to be religious confederation based on religious authority. As you say: Islam is the binding force in a network of affiliations. Now, if Islam is the binding force then kinship is not which it must be if the Ummah itself were tribal.

dover_beach

2 Jun 12 at 10:47 pm
Splat, if time permits, Scott Bridal has some great stuff.

Jumpnmcar

2 Jun 12 at 10:48 pm
I’m wondering when Gillard will do the humanitarian thing and donate some of her excess earlobes to the burns unit at RNS.

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 10:49 pm
Just out of curiosity, has Steve answered this several-times-posed question yet?

Steve, as a nanny-state loving nancy boy, do you feel that government health/safety/scare programs are personally useful for you, or that they are primarily for others?

If not, could y’all remind him next he pops his head above the parpet? Ta.

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 10:50 pm
parapet

sdog

2 Jun 12 at 10:50 pm
I’ll take a look Jump. I usually find a bit of time to skive off in between flogging stuff to farmers.

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 10:51 pm
Splat!!! Good Lord enough of that talk we don’t need The Sisterhood here

Tal

2 Jun 12 at 10:53 pm
No, Spot, the weasel is renowned for not answering questions.

Gab

2 Jun 12 at 10:55 pm
Hey! Its not like I am asking her to donate a heart or something.

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 10:55 pm
What heart?

Tal

2 Jun 12 at 10:58 pm
the Ummah can’t be tribal because tribal societies are bound by kinship networks

Tribal societies are full of classificatory extensions based on an imputed not necessarily a real kinship connection. A similar thing happens with the Ummah. The imputed commonality is mediated by religious affiliation but the sense of an organic ‘belonging’ is there, and this is tribal in nature. It is the imputed commonality that is essentially tribal; somewhat similar to the ‘tribalism’ of the Germanic Volk. The term has explanatory power if used in this way to describe the Ummah, especially given the tribal origins and elemental ‘organic’ simplicity of the belief system itself.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

2 Jun 12 at 11:22 pm
Just been having a look at the Getup blog . My My for a political organisation boasting 600,000 members they sure are a shy lot when it comes to active blogging.

Of the five threads posted on May 24th three were comment free, one had a complaint about a 504 error on a link and the other one had a compliment on the site. The only thread that had comments was the UNESCO report (three posted today). Two out of three were right leaning.

I think Getup’s influence over issues is over exagerated.

splatacrobat

2 Jun 12 at 11:22 pm
Yeah, yeah. Melbourne still to win the wooden spoon.

Sinclair Davidson

2 Jun 12 at 11:30 pm
Splat, influence over issues isn’t measured in comments on threads. If that were the case, Catallaxy would rule Australia.

Jarrah

2 Jun 12 at 11:51 pm
.. oops, I have, not I am

By itself that sounds very Comrade Bogan Broadasks, Lizzie!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

2 Jun 12 at 11:53 pm
What heart?

LOL.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 12:00 am
Obama could not possibly be accorded Yankee White status – an incredible thing given that he’s the President.

Why?

CNN: Why can’t the White House keep a secret?

The level of detail spilling out through media reports about crucial national security operations is raising the question of whether President Barack Obama’s administration can keep a secret – or in some cases even wants to.

In just the past week, two tell-all articles about Obama’s leadership as commander-in-chief have been published, dripping with insider details about his sleeves-rolled-up involvement in choosing terrorist targets for drone strikes and revelations about his amped-up cyber war on Iran.

Each article notes the reporters spoke to “current and former” American officials and presidential advisers, as well as sources from other countries.

“This is unbelievable … absolutely stunning,” a former senior intelligence official said about the level of detail contained in the cyberattack story.

The official noted that the article cited participants in sensitive White House meetings who then told the reporter about top secret discussions. The article “talks about President Obama giving direction for a cyberweapons attack during a time of peace against a United Nations member state.”

The article follows on the heels of what many considered dangerous leaking of details about a mole who helped foil a plot by al Qaeda in Yemen. The revelations of the British national threatened what was described at the time as an ongoing operation.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 1:17 am
http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1061136010

Elizabeth Warren, who has railed against predatory banks and heartless foreclosures, took part in about a dozen Oklahoma real estate deals that netted her and her family hefty profits through maneuvers such as “flipping” properties, records show.

A Herald review has found that the Democratic U.S. Senate candidate rapidly bought and sold homes herself, loaned money at high interest rates to relatives and purchased foreclosed properties at bargain prices.

Fisky

3 Jun 12 at 2:01 am
Warren claims she was the first nursing (that is, lactating) mother to ever sit the New Jersey bar exam. Note the familiar bullshit-on-bullshit tactic when officially challenged:

“I was the first nursing mother to take a bar exam in the state of New Jersey,” Warren told an audience at the Chicago Humanities Festival in 2011, in a video posted on the CHF website. When asked how Warren knows that, her campaign said: “Elizabeth was making a point about the very serious challenges she faced as a working mom — from taking an all-day bar exam when she was still breast-feeding, to finding work as a lawyer that would accommodate a mom with two small children.”

Winnie Comfort of the New Jersey Judiciary, which administers that state’s bar exam, said there’s no way to verify Warren’s claim. Comfort said women have been taking the New Jersey bar exam since 1895, but she’s not aware their nursing habits were ever tracked.

Question: bigger pathological liar – Warren or Gillard?

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 2:10 am
Potemkin’s Village

Moral courage is… here

Grigory Potemkin

3 Jun 12 at 2:17 am
This fraud of a person was responsible for creating that fraudulent crap about countless Americans rendered bankrupt as a result of the medical/insurance system.

We even had silly leftist Jazzabelle posting about it recently either aware or oblivious to the fact that it was found to be a pack of lies.

Absolute vermin.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 2:35 am
Former Obama backer becomes a Republican

Oh, my.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 4:18 am
Warren claims she was the first nursing (that is, lactating) mother to ever sit the New Jersey bar exam

Warren is pathological, and needs an intervention.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 4:21 am
“We face the very real threat of a triple disaster. Europe in utter chaos, the US in recession and a Chinese economy that’s run out of steam.”
Terry McCrann

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 5:04 am
I suppose Warren was the real inspiration for Forrest Gump as well.

Blogstrop

3 Jun 12 at 6:33 am
But a scholarship (in my little traditional head, at least) is intended to enable people of merit…but less than adequate means…to be…wait for it…SCHOLARS! Traditionally, they involved a means test.

So if you are born to the wrong type of parent, you are not allowed to claim the prize you rightfully won?

Have you never heard of the Rhodes scholarship?

I know someone who was born to a single mum and brought up in council flats who scored one, and also someone born into quite well-to-do family who scored one. What they both had in common was that they were extraordinary students who had both worked very hard and had earnt their prize by merit.

But from an American viewpoint, the young woman who had the misfortune to have been born to the “wrong” sort of parents [well-to-do] should have been disqualified?

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 6:37 am
Prick With A Fork fills in for the Bunyip on Adele Horin

Mentioned to the Missus that she should start up a complimentary sister blog to the Prick.
Something called C**t With A Spoon, but she’ll have none of it.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 6:43 am
Apologies for that last out-of-context comment. I was using this box for formatting purposes for something else and accidentally hit “submit”

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 6:46 am
I love Prick with a Fork, Rudiau. For any of you on Twitter, follow at
http://twitter.com/pwafork/
Really good value.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 6:49 am
@KRuddMP keeps tweeting about his pussy. It’s like “Are You Being Served” for the digital age. #mrsslocombeforpm— Prick With A Fork (@pwafork) June 2, 2012

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 6:51 am
Any other takers for meeting in Toowoomba on Monday or Tuesday or other night next week?

I’ve got a pressure pump issue at the moment. Bloody thing seems not to be sensing a loss of pressure to switch on or a build up to switch off.

And my normally full water tank is scarily low.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 6:56 am
Sdog,
following @pwafork, thanks.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:03 am
I like how Mrs Rudd spells her name with John Howard eyebrows in it.
Thérèse.
How cute.

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 7:13 am
Cool – and I’ve just followed you back as well, and listed you.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 7:18 am
Sdog,
Do you follow Geoffff’s Joint, Bar and Grill blog, he has some good articles on the plight of Israel and the ME.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:21 am
Sdog,
Been following you since your lesson on Twitter a couple of weeks back. I am in IT but cannot work out how the relaying of tweets to mobiles work. Says a lot about my IT prowess, ay!

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:27 am
“A cute puppy walked up the hill ´ and fell ` to its grave.”
The mnemonic device I still remember for which accent is which. lol.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 7:27 am
Rudiau, @TweetSmarter has a blog with lots of tips and tricks. Maybe you’ll find what you’re looking for there?

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 7:34 am
mnemonics is based on the observation that the human mind much more easily remembers spatial, personal, surprising, physical, sexual, humorous, or otherwise meaningful information, as compared to retrieving arbitrary sequences.
A women always remembers her first.
A man always remembers his last and/or a hole in one.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:37 am
Thanks sdog, I must admit I didn’t pursue it much, other events intervened will make a project of it today.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:40 am
Rudiau

Aren’t they the same thing?

kae

3 Jun 12 at 7:42 am
Golf,kae,golf. lol

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:44 am
Oh, okay.

Some would say that.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 7:47 am
kae

3 Jun 12 at 7:47 am
Most golf clubs give a small trophy or some recognition for the achievement, sadly not for the other.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 7:52 am
Speaking of Mitt, Vanderluen has a video which is most enjoyable.

nilk

3 Jun 12 at 8:38 am
Speaking of golf, last round of my clubs championships today and Jump is B grade clubhouse leader.
Prepare yourselves for either a victory speech or a tale luckless self pity.

(updates at 5;30pm)

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 8:42 am
Albosleazy on sky – what a horrid little man.

Carpe Jugulum

3 Jun 12 at 9:01 am
Speaking of golf, where is the Good Professor Bunyip. Surely he is on his way back home from Italy or wherever by now?

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

3 Jun 12 at 9:04 am
If I place runner-up, I will do a deal with 3rd, 4th and 5th to snatch the trophy and declare myself as ” minority Club Champion “.
If that is unpopular with the other players, I will blame the righteous winner and his ” destructive relentless negativity “

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 9:05 am
Speaking of golf, where is the Good Professor Bunyip. Surely he is on his way back home from Italy or wherever by now?
Bunyip was on the Cat four or five nights back, said he still had a few things to do and would back blogging in a fortnight or so.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 9:24 am
Another congressman joins Fast and Furious charge against Holder as contempt proceedings loom on horizon

California Republican Rep. Tom McClintock has joined scores of his House colleagues in pushing for Attorney General Eric Holder to be held accountable for his role in Operation Fast and Furious.

McClintock’s signature on Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar’s official House resolution of “no confidence” in Holder over Fast and Furious makes him the 129th House member to demand Holder’s resignation, sign the resolution or both. Presumptive GOP presidential nominee and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, three U.S. senators and two sitting governors join those members in demanding Holder’s removal from the Department of Justice because of Fast and Furious.

JamesK

3 Jun 12 at 9:30 am
Warren as Lie-awatha LOL

John Comnenus

3 Jun 12 at 9:32 am
Thank god for Nikki Sava. Just flipped over to Playskool to see her batting for commonsense in the face of the AbbottAbbottAbbott virus, represented this morning by excreble Malolm Farr and the insufferable Lenore Taylor, who looks this morning like she has just been discharged from the nunnery.

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 9:39 am
⊂(º⊥º)⊃

AbbottAbbottAbbott.

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 9:43 am
Burned by the solar swindle

So am I understanding this correctly.The power providers paid 60c/KWH for feed in solar power and jacked up everyone else’s power bills to cover the costs.
Then under O’Farrel they are only paying 8c/KWH and not passing on any savings.
Green ~~schemes~~ scams aren’t they wonderful.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 9:45 am
“Complaints from solar consumers to the energy ombudsman have soared 94 per cent in the past year.”

Not surprised.

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 9:48 am
⊂(º⊥º)⊃⊂(º⊥º)⊃⊂(º⊥º)⊃

AbbottAbbottAbbott.

FIFY

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 10:01 am
Good, Jump.

Better, Rudiau.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 10:03 am
Remember Gillard’s speech to the miners? She said this:

In infrastructure.

Projects vital to your industry, like the long-deferred Maldon to Dumbarton freight line linking resource fields in New South Wales to Port Kembla.

and

You build something.

hahahahah

That line was cancelled in 1988 because it was a waste of money. Bits of tunnels and bridges had been built when Greiner scrapped it.

Estimated cost to complete now? $550 million.

How much has Gillard committed to it?

$3 million for a pre-feasability study and:

preparation of detailed design work for civil, structural, geotechnical and track work necessary for the future construction of the project

finalisation of a realistic construction timetable and cost estimate for the project.

The additional $25.5 million in Federal Government funding will ensure that this important project is “shovel ready” for the Illawarra.

Shovel ready – means it will never be fully funded and built.

At least when the miners set out to build a railway, they actually see the thing right through to completion.

boy on a bike

3 Jun 12 at 10:12 am
Gillards CO2 tax will ensure the freight line is never needed.

Abbott warns Port Kembla on carbon tax

Rudiau

3 Jun 12 at 10:20 am
Reagan was really funny.

Humor is really important I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oskP72Xqoio&feature=related

JC

3 Jun 12 at 11:46 am
Reagan was also a professional actor, JC. The worst thing Mitt can do is to make out like he’s a fun guy. That’s why TA sticks to the small target script: he is determined to avoid mistakes and fakery. He will mature as a leader. For Presidents and PMs, they don’t make the office; the office makes them. That’s especially so in the USA.

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 11:55 am
Tom

There were no lessons I thought needed to be learnt by putting up the Reagan link. I linked to it because I thought he was funny.

Jc

3 Jun 12 at 12:00 pm
Banora Point pensioner Tom Hawkes gets a lesson in regulatory risk.

Now he knows how BHP Billiton, Rio and the other miners feel. Welcome to the big end of town Tom.

H B Bear

3 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
WTF is this SHIT!?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/australians-face-huge-fines-for-speaking-ill-of-new-carbon-tax.html

Surely this and this alone means that the combined ALP and Green primary vote should drop to less than 5% with no representation after the next election?

.

3 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
OK, all you Cat economists, give it your best shot. Why is Martin Wolf wrong?

Mother Hubbard's Dog

3 Jun 12 at 12:32 pm
Criticising the carbon dioxide tax is a crime, Dot.

Didn’t you know that?

We have an unelected government led by a thrice-unelected ‘prime minister,’ kept in power by two dogs who overruled their electorates, trying to ban free speech and overseen gubernatorially by Bill Shorten’s mother-in-law.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 12:33 pm
Because he is lying.

.

3 Jun 12 at 12:34 pm
The Lying Slapper and her criminally minded cohort have legislated fines for any firm they say speaks negatively about the Carbonic Tax.

Didn’t you know Dot?

This is why I have been so pissed off to such an extent I think the Fisk Doctrine should be imposed for payback and retribution. The Australian Left needs to be taught a lesson they will never forget…. for a decade. They need to know that anything like this will cause escalation of the kind that scares the shit out of them to ever try again.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 12:35 pm
New York Times: ‘Re the economy, leave Obama alone!’

His hands are tied!

Weak Economy Points to Obama’s Constraints.

WASHINGTON — The bleak jobs report on Friday predictably had heads snapping toward the White House, looking to President Obama to do something. Yet his proposed remedies only underscore how much the president, just five months before he faces voters, is at the mercy of actors in Europe, China and Congress whose political interests often conflict with his own.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
I have an implied right to political communication C.L., per Australian Capital Television v Commonwealth (1992) 177 CLR 106, which the Federal Government cannot revoke.

The fact that they are trying to simply ignore the basic law of the nation means they should be dismissed, failing that, whacked into the wilderness for four decades.

.

3 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
Go for it Dot. Or ask Clive Palmer. We need a test case on this edict.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

3 Jun 12 at 12:40 pm
The NYTimes. What a bunch of jokesters.

‘re-elect the Kenyan because he’s a miserable failure”.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 12:40 pm
You have a right, but Firms do not have a right to free speech, Dot. They are basically attempting to gag firms from publicizing any negative impact from the Carbonic Tax. What they did was just cancerous. This is why there needs to be serious retribution that either sends them to jail or confiscates their net worth or both. Don’t use fucking gloves.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 12:44 pm
One of the tings the Libs must do is to dismantle APS unions with 100% prejudice. Make it illegal to unionize against the benevolent taxpayer to gain more money or extra benefits.

Fuck them off out of Canberra and stick departments in way off places like Darwin. Turn Canberra into a bear fucking rump and remove those two labor seats.

Campbell Newman is just starting a version of that in QLD. My concern is that Abbott wants to be loved by luvvies once he’s in power in order to show that he’s not not sort of mean ogre.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 12:49 pm
My concern is that Abbott wants to be loved by luvvies once he’s in power in order to show that he’s not not sort of mean ogre.

Exactly.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 12:53 pm
Some good advice for any company facing a falling share price.

Also, from the same shareholder;

Details of Proposal: The total amount of executives’ compensation determined by the Compensation Committee should be subject to a maximum amount determined by “Stock price at the end of the fiscal year X Work hours X Number of executives.” However, it should be stipulated in the Articles of Incorporation that if the amount of compensation for a full-time executive calculated by the Compensation Committee is lower than the minimum wage prescribed by the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare, such executive shall be subject to disciplinary punishment but shall be paid the amount calculated as the minimum wage, and such evaluation by the Compensation Committee shall be respected and said director shall be regarded as “disqualified,” and be dismissed on disciplinary grounds.

Needless to say;

• Opinion of the Board of Directors: The Board is opposed to this proposal.

Eddystone

3 Jun 12 at 1:00 pm
So they are allowed to hold directors personally responsible for actions but directors are considered not responsible for such anti carbon tax actions except for having to administer the firm to pay the fine?

Absurd. This is a denial of natural justice. The law effectively cuts off the directors right to appeal the law on constitutional grounds and treats them selectively as people and non people. This is against the Human Rights convention we have signed up to as well.

I think Leeth v Commonwealth (1992) 174 CLR 455 is instructive.

any attempt on the part of the legislature to cause a court to act in a manner contrary to natural justice would impose a non-judicial requirement inconsistent with the exercise of judicial power

Also see the obiter of Deane, Gaidron and Toohey JJ

discriminated in such a way which was inconsistent with doctrine of the underlying equality of the people of the Commonwealth under the law and before the courts

All are equal before the law. And the concept of equal justice…is fundamental to the judicial process

.

3 Jun 12 at 1:03 pm
My concern is that Abbott wants to be loved by luvvies once he’s in power in order to show that he’s not not sort of mean ogre.

Yes, he’s already prone to the odd case of softcockery.

Fleeced

3 Jun 12 at 1:04 pm
Abbott will be a terrible PM and the LNP a disastrous government and yet they will be 100 times better than the current mob.

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 1:07 pm
oops Bare, not bear…

JC

3 Jun 12 at 1:08 pm
I hold that Abbot ought to repeal everything Rudd and Gillard have done and legislate Fightback! to the extent that Howard and Costello did not make it invalid.

What we need is to pressure the Libs into having good tax reform. We need a TABOR and sunset clauses on legislation. Our taxes need only compose of a 10% VAT, 4% LVT on UCV and a 6% royalties rate. Apply royalties to quotas if possible.

.

3 Jun 12 at 1:09 pm
Dot

The amusing thing about Lefties showing up here is that they think we’re like them.. that we’ll softcock against the libs like they do with the Alliance, once their in power in 16 months or sooner. They’re fucking delusional.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 1:13 pm
Nothing short of public executions will really satisfy me.

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 1:16 pm
You’re hard to please IT.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 1:22 pm
I’d be happy with the stocks and tarring and feathering.

nilk

3 Jun 12 at 1:33 pm
The Left must be punished big time for removing quaint democratic concepts like freedom of speech and equality before the law.

Now Nanny Roxon wants to regulate the family. These anally retentive control freaks must be stopped, and then punished very hard for the small minded nasty contempt they show to everyone outside their ruling claque.

The Left are a terminal danger to our democracy and democratic capitalist culture.

John Comnenus

3 Jun 12 at 1:36 pm
The Left are a terminal danger to our democracy and democratic capitalist culture.

Much more so than radical islam and their terrorists, John.

When are people gonna wake up?

JamesK

3 Jun 12 at 1:40 pm
James,

I agree to a point. The left are the demolition charge in our cultural superstructure, and they are happy to use Islam to push their cause. The problem is that once they detonate that charge Islam will be waiting, patiently ready to pounce. They Left and Islam work hand in glove, its just that much of the Left doesn’t understand that they will be used by Islam the way the Ayatollah used the Iranian lefties, and the Muslim Brotherhood used the facebook liberal youth in Egypt and Tunisia.

John Comnenus

3 Jun 12 at 1:45 pm
Now Nanny Roxon wants to regulate the family.

Please explain. This sounds positively evil.

.

3 Jun 12 at 1:48 pm
Because of the Left we are seen as a the ‘weak horse’ by radical islam John.

They’d be back in their box if the Left were appropriately squashed.

JamesK

3 Jun 12 at 1:50 pm
WTF?

Domestic violence redefined to include cutting off money from a deadbeat teen:

New domestic violence laws target emotional abuse.

New domestic violence laws will make it an offence to harm pets, cut people off from their family or withhold financial support.

The changes to the Family Law Act were passed in December but come into effect this week.

They expand the definition of domestic violence to more than just physical harm, such as denying a family member financial autonomy or the money required to meet reasonable living expenses.

The changes also include emotional abuse and preventing a person from maintaining contact with family, friends or their culture.

The Salvation Army’s Major Andrew Craib says the changes recognise that it is not just physical acts of violence that can harm children.

“They might see a perpetrator constantly putting people down. Often people hear that enough and they begin to believe that for themselves and that’s unacceptable in our society,” he said.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 2:16 pm
Yep… keep marrying guys. Keep marrying and then get absolutely keelhauled on the 50% chance there’s an exit.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 2:18 pm
The new Family Law provisions are promulgated by a lesbian and a childless marriage-wrecker.

What could possibly go wrong?

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 2:22 pm
Dot,

what CL posted. There are holes you can drive a 747 Airbus through for the Left to interfere in a families affairs.

Neither Abbott or the Libs are going to vote in favour of greater violence for the family, so we are stuck with this.

Unfortunately, and once again, the Christian Churches and leaders have helped the Left sow the seeds that destroy the Christian religion and the nuclear family.

Honest guys like Jim Wallace, who was easily my best ever Brigade Commander, are just taken to the cleaners by the Left’s deceitfulness. Christian leaders never learn until the Leftist politicians want to shut them down entirely – as in Obama and Catholic hospitals.

Note I deliberately used a moronic Douggie Cameronism.

John Comnenus

3 Jun 12 at 2:25 pm
Nothing short of public executions will really satisfy me.

Quite so.

boy on a bike

3 Jun 12 at 3:01 pm
Any other takers for meeting in Toowoomba on Monday or Tuesday or other night next week?

Kae, Where and when? I’m good monday or tuesday night

Splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 3:02 pm
Yeah Splat,someone else has already contacted me thru email at my blog. Trying to see if there are any other takers.
I won’t put the where and the when on the web, I’ll use email off blog.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 3:06 pm
I’ve been working my way through a three month backlog of Spectators – just found this gem from Mark Latham:

One of the delusions of the nanny state is that laws made in the distant chambers of Parliament House can impact, command-and-control style, on the lives of ordinary citizens. Take this self-congratulatory serving from Bob the Blogger on 5 January:

One of the happiest campaigns I devised after leaving ‘the job’ [as NSW Premier] was in getting regulations to force fast-service food outlets to post calorie information on their menus. It came into effect on 1 January. It means a harried mum picks up information that enables her to make healthier food choices for her kids when she shepherds them into a McDonalds or Kentuckys [sic].

Ever curious about the claims of Carrism, I recently tested the effectiveness of this ‘reform’ with some field research at McDonald’s Narellan, in south-west Sydney. When I asked for a menu, however, the schoolgirl behind the counter looked at me like I had just bumped off Justin Bieber. ‘Menus?’ the diminutive toughie barked. ‘It’s all on the board, mister.’ I was left feeling as inadequate as the chubby chap on the TV advertisements who took his girlfriend to McDonald’s for a fancy night out.

On the display board behind the counter were gargantuan pictures of each food item, blown out of proportion in a manner reminiscent of Malcolm Turnbull’s head. Below the big hamburgers, in print finer than a Michael Clarke leg-glance, were the kilojoule counts: Big Mac 3,550 kJ, Quarter Pounder 3,790 kJ, McChicken 3,200 kJ, Choc Whirl Frappé 2,160 kJ and so on. Macca’s marketing ploy is to entice its customers through pictures, not by numbers.

Praying that little tough-nuts was not related to Bev Waugh or Penny Sexton and that this ‘incident’ (Weight-gate, perhaps) would not end up in the Sunday Telegraph, I tried another line of Carresque inquiry. ‘Does anyone talk about the kilojoules before ordering?’ Her reply of ‘What da?’ was instructive enough. Anyone looking for a healthy feed for their kids would not go to McDonald’s in the first place. Those that do go are not interested or concerned by the true meaning of 3,550kJ.

Carr’s reform has made the nanny state bigger, filling extra pages of bureaucratic regulations and paperwork. Its fat bloated carcass is hauntingly familiar. There it sits, hanging out with the really Big Macs, on the backing board of McDonald’s Narellan — a boomba marriage made in heaven.

When you’ve lost Latham, you’ve really lost Sydney’s western suburbs.

boy on a bike

3 Jun 12 at 3:10 pm
One day I’ll read through my backlog of Spectator…. and Quadrant.

I selectively read Quadrant, but Spectator comes out weekly and there’s sooooo much to read!

kae

3 Jun 12 at 3:13 pm
Greetings all.

Laptop refusing to work.

Not happy, Jan.

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 3:15 pm
It’s OK, Mark Latham.

Kids pick their meals in Maccas and I doubt they can count that high to add up the numbers anyway.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 3:18 pm
WTF?

Domestic violence redefined to include cutting off money from a deadbeat teen

These people cannot possibly understand how evil their ideas are.

They are just stupid.

This is why universities must be made for profit. To basically wipe out all of the losers and idiots.

.

3 Jun 12 at 3:34 pm
Dot, the problem with social experiments are that they can damage people and society.

And the damage tends to be long-lasting.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 3:35 pm
I wonder if the leftists who back Bloombergs soft drink ban also favour drug legalisation?

Alex Pundit

3 Jun 12 at 3:45 pm
Today is the 20th anniversary of the Mabo decsion. Only one comment yesterday on the profound impact of Mabo on the understanding that Australian Aborignes owned the land prior to European settlement, and their rights were not simply extinguished when the British crown claimed ownership.

Of course it hasn’t helped much in the short term to improve the generally disastrous lot of Aborigines.

However in the longer term I think it helps change attitudes, similar to the slow change since the 1967 referendum.

SteveC

3 Jun 12 at 4:03 pm
I think Native Title is a gyp.

Look at Eddie Mabo.

He had a form of old system title to his land. he could recite ownership back many generations! He had a good root of title!

The right thing to do would have been to grant him and the other rightful proprietors of the land as joint owners (the form of which declarable by the owners) with alloidal title.

.

3 Jun 12 at 4:12 pm
Do we have such a thing as alloidal title in Australia?

SteveC

3 Jun 12 at 4:23 pm
Mabo is rubbish law that was pushed by the Brennans (Fr Frank and his Dad, the Chief Justice). It’s the pre-eminent example of our elitist everyman-hating judges making up law to suit themselves and their favoured audiences. (In this case, Aborigines whose culture is unrelated to Eddie Mabo’s, legally, and – more important – white luvvies).

Interestingly, Eddie Mabo had to drive 3000 km to Canberra from Townsville for the HC’s decision. His big-noting luvvie lawyers couldn’t have been bothered spruiking for a plane ticket. But then, they were never interested in him personally.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 4:26 pm
CL for high court judge!

SteveC

3 Jun 12 at 4:29 pm
Let state supply drugs: Cowdery
I’m totally with Cowdery. The current “war on drugs” has been a dismal failure

SteveC

3 Jun 12 at 4:30 pm
Do we have such a thing as alloidal title in Australia?

Well, we never had native title before Mabo so I am only saying what the HC should have done.

.

3 Jun 12 at 4:32 pm
Public-Sector Austerity vs. Private-Sector Austerity

Irving J

3 Jun 12 at 4:52 pm
Don’t know about alloidal. We have adverse possession. Just ask Terry Nullius.

blogstrop

3 Jun 12 at 5:21 pm
If you’ve lost Maureen Dowd for being a wuss , then who’s left? The Kenyan in more trouble as Dowd drops him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/dowd-dreaming-of-a-superhero.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

JC

3 Jun 12 at 6:28 pm
Liarwatha warren?

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
CL, I don’t know where you got the idea that Eddie Mabo had to pay for his own ticket to hear the High Court’s Mabo decision. He died a few months before the decision was announced.

Ronaldo

3 Jun 12 at 6:39 pm
Liarwatha Fauxcohontas Warren!

Mk50 of Brisbane

3 Jun 12 at 6:56 pm
Let state supply drugs: Cowdery

Only if the state can do it cheaper and more efficiently than the Mexicans, Lebs and bikies.

Somehow I doubt the man from the government bureau is going to be able to dispense an 8 ball of primo blow at 2am on Saturday night.

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 6:56 pm
CL, I don’t know where you got the idea that Eddie Mabo had to pay for his own ticket to hear the High Court’s Mabo decision. He died a few months before the decision was announced.

You don’t know where CL got the idea?

It’s easy.

His wife and children drove from Townsville to hear the judgement because they had no money to fly.

It was in a documentary of Eddie Mabo’s story.

JamesK

3 Jun 12 at 7:09 pm
Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream…

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 7:34 pm
What the f**k?!??!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=PXJce_rIV9A

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 7:36 pm
WTF?

Domestic violence redefined to include cutting off money from a deadbeat teen:

The changes also include emotional abuse and preventing a person from maintaining contact with family, friends or their culture.

37% of the “substantiated” reports out of the two hundred and eighty nine thousand child welfare reports in 2009 were allegations of “emotional abuse”.

Consider that witnessing domestic violence is considered “emotional abuse” of a child.

Then consider what the new laws expanding domestic violence to include “emotional abuse” are going to mean knowing that kids who “witness” this “emotional abusive” domestic violence are now considered to have been abused themselves.

twostix

3 Jun 12 at 7:39 pm
“Let state supply drugs: Cowdery
I’m totally with Cowdery. The current “war on drugs” has been a dismal failure”

We’ve got to find any number of ways to undermine both drug trades. The legal drug trade, and the illegal one. Both drug trades take something that costs a few cents a kilo to manufacture, and finds complicated ways to sell them to the public at many thousands of dollars per kilo. Both pay off a lot of middlemen in the process. The main difference is that the legal racket kills far more people and is associated with a great deal more misinformation.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 7:45 pm
Let state supply drugs: Cowdery

Is he pro- or anti-drug?

If he were anti-drug, I could see his preference for having the State take over production, regulation and distribution. They’d munt it up in no time.

Within months you’ll only be about to get one joint of non-hydro weed and half a tab of E a fortnight, and only on alternate Thursdays from 10am-2pm, and only after having made your way through the 3-month waiting list.

It’d probably be more effective than prohibition.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 7:46 pm
37% of the “substantiated” reports out of the two hundred and eighty nine thousand child welfare reports in 2009 were allegations of “emotional abuse”.

Consider that witnessing domestic violence is considered “emotional abuse” of a child.

Then consider what the new laws expanding domestic violence to include “emotional abuse” are going to mean knowing that kids who “witness” this “emotional abusive” domestic violence are now considered to have been abused themselves.

In the future, everyone will be a Victim for 15 minutes.

Go the Victim-Industrial Complex!

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 7:49 pm
Well sdog, they could supply drugs through licensing of local sole traders or something like that. If we just opened it up to the free market we’d still be in the hands of both drug trades, that are expert at working through the various governments to purvey their rip-offs. See do we really want the CIA to be our localised dope-dealer? I don’t think so. I think we want local people providing both streams of drugs. People we can hold accountable.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 7:50 pm
I don’t think so. I think we want local people providing both streams of drugs. People we can hold accountable.

That’s a problem. Unless we can start growing china white and bolivinan marching powder keeping it local is going to be hard work.

The current system is very good. Everyone but the government is getting what they want. Leave it be.

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 7:53 pm
Oh come on. Its a terrible terrible system. Prices for both streams of drugs are at the 1000-to-1 level more expensive then they ought to be. The legal stream is killing people in an incredible way. The legal stream is notorious for its lack of standardisation and quality control. All-in-all its a disaster which is costing us all, and not a little bit by us having to support old people who are being prescribed several types of this junk as a norm.

Some gullible people are so full of fear they even take up their doctors urgings to take Statin drugs; Surely one of the great ripoffs of the modern era.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 7:58 pm
“That’s a problem. Unless we can start growing china white and bolivinan marching powder keeping it local is going to be hard work.”

We can grow anything we like. Not only that it would be a revenue stream to build up our agricultural capital goods more generally.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 7:59 pm
CIA conspiracies. ‘Big Pharma’ conspiracies. Oogga booga.

Go the big tin foil hat! And who says illegal drugs cause paranoia anyway, hmm?

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 8:11 pm
It you thats got to get with reality. The CIA have always been drug-dealers. It was only natural that they would be drug dealers since the OSS was set up by the British, whose aristocracy were big-time drug-dealers. In any case, despite your fantasy approach to the issue, CIA drug-dealing was reaffirmed very recently by the fast-and-furious affair.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:14 pm
ID

See do we really want the CIA to be our localised dope-dealer?

NO, but according Bird, Queen Elizabeth has not been proved not to be the biggest drug overlord in the world.
Or some such.

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 8:14 pm
Is anyone else here going to take the sdog fantasy approach to the international drug trade? Or is this just an sdog childhood thing?

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:15 pm
The CIA aren’t competent to be drug dealers. They don’t have the acumen. Only statists can believe this nonsense.

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 8:16 pm
Queen Elizabeth is head of the Anglican Church as well. It doesn’t mean she’s out writing sermons. Its more a question of when did the English get out of drug-dealing? Does anyone know what year that was?

So the political families in the US used to be drug-dealers. The Delano’s and so forth. When did they get out of the business? What year was that?

In any case we don’t want to go down this fantasy route of pretending that the CIA is not a massive drug dealer. We are supposed to be adults here. Why go into a kind of fetal make-believe position?

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:17 pm
Wrong Fred, Bird.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 8:19 pm
“The CIA aren’t competent to be drug dealers. ”

Well they do it nonetheless. So why the childish and childlike denial? Its not that hard if you are allowed to do it and your competitors aren’t.

See you are saying that you need to be clever to deal drugs? Why? Because you have to evade the CIA and other agencies. But those agencies themselves don’t have to evade themselves? So its not a hard job at all. Its a supported monopoly.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:20 pm
So Infidel, you are coming out of the closet as a childish denialist on this issue? What is your understanding of the history of this? Where did the bigshot families exit from the drug trade?

Take the Roosevelts? Dope-runners. The American wing of the Chinese opium trade. The Harrimans too. Harriman was so up to his eyeballs in dope that he was able to end-run immigration and get all these Chinese coolie dope-addicts to build his railways.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:22 pm
Drugs are bad, mkay!?!!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JWDmnWjsvo

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 8:25 pm
Also, CHEMTRAILZ! Amirite, Iggy?

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 8:28 pm
Here is a lot of video information on CIA drug trafficking. But if you don’t want to believe it I don’t suppose anything can convince you. What I want to know is when people imagine the drug-dealing of American and British elites stopped. What year was that? If you don’t have a year, or a phase-out period, then why allege its stopped when all evidence suggests otherwise?

https://www.google.com.au/search?rlz=1C1CHFA_enAU484AU484&sugexp=chrome,mod=14&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=CIA+drug+trade#q=CIA+drug+trade&hl=en&rlz=1C1CHFA_enAU484AU484&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=PDvLT63XHaWSiAeGwK3mBg&ved=0CHcQqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=842cee285d004457&biw=1724&bih=1030

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:29 pm
Hi Graeme!

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 8:29 pm
Take the Roosevelts? Dope-runners.

Lots of lovely honest money to be made from Crimestoppers.
If only we had PROOF.

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 8:30 pm
What is the chemtrails childishness all about? You can get your own film of this behaviour. Its not crop-dusting, and its happening in NATO countries.

So we have a sort of 360 degree childishness and fantasizing going on here. Sdog. Are you in childish denial of the American TSA as well?

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:31 pm
Hey Iggy!

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 8:31 pm
Jumpncar. Are you denying that the Roosevelt fortune was made in the Opium trade?

This is really amazing. A group of adults dedicated to obsessive ignorance.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:32 pm
In case people haven’t seen it in 2004 there was a report into the family in Australia done by the Australian Institute of Family Studies which contains many, many interesting, damning, and disturbing statistics.

70% of people think it’s too easy to get a divorce.

If partner becomes mentally or physically disabled you should stay in marriage regardless:
Men: 48% agree
Women: 39% agree

Think spousal support should be paid:
Men: 43% agree
Women: 62% agree

Who files for divorce:
Men: 30%
Women: 48%

Isn’t there this narrative that it’s women who are the caring, loyal, often betrayed by cruel, indifferent men victims in our society?

The stats very much say otherwise.

http://192.135.208.240/institute/pubs/diversity/DiversityAndChange.pdf

twostix

3 Jun 12 at 8:35 pm
I’m not an adult Ig, I’m 13 . Wanna buy some copper?

Jumpnmcar

3 Jun 12 at 8:36 pm
Gillard will be mopey this week – Bulldogs got flogged!!

Mike of Marion

3 Jun 12 at 8:37 pm
Now you’ve done it, Iggy. We’ve just put your name on our CIA surveil list. You’re being tracked to your physical location eve as we speak.

Look, out your window! Black helicopters! Look again, SQUIRRELS!

I’d get offline and hie meself to a more secure location NOW if I were you, buddy. #Protip

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 8:38 pm
Well you sound 13, based on your assumption of knowledge about the drug trade, coupled with incredible ignorance, and compounded by an attitude of not wanting to know. I myself have no idea about the royal families role in the drug trade. I suspect that Elizabeth would be shielded from all of that. But it remains the case that it was rich families in the US and Britain that dominated this trade, and its very hard to figure out when and if that ever changed. It seems like they have merely managed to make a lot of the operation that they benefit from, taxpayer-supported.

We see this in both drug trades. The illegal and the legal. The idea that you can get more and more subsidy from the taxpayer.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:40 pm
You are being an idiot sdog. I’m not on any CIA list. But that isn’t going to change the fact that these guys are known and massive drug-dealers. They are dealing out of Afghanistan and out of Columbia just for starters. They take military measures to close down competitors, but you note that since the CIA got their fingers into Afghanistan the supply has gone up.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:43 pm
Ignatius has descended like a fog.

blogstrop

3 Jun 12 at 8:47 pm
I think I could claim emotional abuse after listening to Albo, Kelly & co defend the suicidal shagger.

Splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 8:47 pm
Ignatius has descended like a fog, or perhaps a miasma.

blogstrop

3 Jun 12 at 8:48 pm
Thicker, blogstrop.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 8:49 pm
I’m not on any CIA list.

Graeme, you are selling yo’self short, there, Squire – The Bird, international avian of mysterah!

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
Hmmm. That first attempt has reappeared now I did the second. Oh well, no more repetitive than most of the time-rich interlopers …

blogstrop

3 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
Whose thick here kae? What we’ve seen here is a group denial and ignorance. Yet you can go anywhere and explain the CIA involvement in drug-dealing and people know this to be old hat. They would probably be amazed at the scope of it, but they wouldn’t be in denial as you kids seem to be in denial. I would say that you guys are the thickos here.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:51 pm
No, not thicker.

Completely batshit crazy with ill-fitting tin-foil hat.

Chemtrails. Good God.

I suppose, iggy, that you know, KNOW, that 9/11 was an inside job.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 8:53 pm
Here’s Ron Paul talking about CIA drug-dealing back in 1988. What happens is since the same network controls the media, this issue blows up from time to time, and then these people forget about it, then it blows up again, and people forget it again and so forth. But the CIA were drug-dealers from the start, and they never stopped their drug-dealing operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vZEBx7tlA

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:55 pm
Well of course it was, Kae. At the risk of sounding callous, the planes ended up in the buildings.

More seriously, though, I still find it difficult that so many people could watch what happened and jump to completely the wrong conclusion.

nilk

3 Jun 12 at 8:56 pm
“Its more a question of when did the English get out of drug-dealing? Does anyone know what year that was?”

that’s one really bizarre statement?

i can’t make heads or tails of that?

I just hope it’s not derisive of the Queen, who is 80 and a very moral woman who has worked very hard in her job and still does.

candy

3 Jun 12 at 8:57 pm
But Nilk, they weren’t planes as we know them.

They were powered drones.

*gag*

kae

3 Jun 12 at 8:57 pm
Yes KAE. I know for a fact that 9/11 was a shadow government job. This is known from straight physics. This is a simple and prosaic historical fact and it can be no other way.

Again: Chemtrails are proven. You can go see footage yourself. They don’t happen HERE. They are a NATO country phenomenon. I don’t know what they are doing. I don’t know what is coming out the back of these jets. But that they are spraying something is a simple fact.

So is this all about denying stuff that cannot be denied in terms of factual reality?

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 8:57 pm
Say no more, iggy whateveryournameis.

You are a simpleton, unable to think for yourself.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 8:59 pm
iggy whateveryournameis

iggy bird, kae.

JamesK

3 Jun 12 at 9:01 pm
Here’s Ron Paul talking about CIA drug-dealing back in 1988.

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:01 pm
“that’s one really bizarre statement?”

Not its not a bizzare statement. Its just a simple matter. We know British and American elites were running the international drug trade. We know that the CIA still has a hand in that. But somehow people THINK THEY KNOW that these elites have some time or other got out of the drug trade.

So if you think you know this …… What year was that? What year did they get out? And how on earth would you wind up such a trade when even the suggestion to do so by an individual could get you killed?

The presumption and the evidence suggests that they are STILL involved in the drug trade. Of course I know nothing about the royal families connection to this. But there is good reason why huge quantities of drugs pass international borders. Its because its the most powerful countries getting the job done.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:01 pm
I suspect that Elizabeth would be shielded from all of that.

I take it you mean Queen Elizabeth the 2nd Ignatius?

Elizabeth the 1st had a different drug problem that she was well into……Tobacco

Stuart King James I wrote a famous polemic titled A Counterblaste to Tobacco in 1604, in which the king denounced tobacco use as “[a] custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse.” In that same year, an English statute was enacted that placed a heavy protective tariff on every pound of tobacco brought into England.

Depending on the drug, Royals have either been trying to stamp it out or getting off on it….Just ask Prince Harry

Splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 9:02 pm
Queen ER II is actually 85!

amazing.

i’m sure she’s not a drug dealer if that’s what ignatious is insinuating?

candy

3 Jun 12 at 9:02 pm
No, you don’t.

Enjoy your crack pipe.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:03 pm
No kae YOU are a simpleton. Completely unable to think for yourself. Clearly you aren’t much for science for starters. If you want to have some sort of Arab fantasy, at least have an Arab fantasy that could be physically possible. Like Arabian nights fantasies or something. Fantasies about Rudi Valentino with a cloth on his head.

But two planes bringing three buildings down at almost g-1 acceleration is not physically possible, so you ought not fantasize about such things and pretend you have some sort of knowledge as to what happened on that day. You aren’t that bright you know.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:04 pm
CL, I don’t know where you got the idea that Eddie Mabo had to pay for his own ticket to hear the High Court’s Mabo decision.

The ailing Eddie Mabo had to take a bus (36 hours) when the case first went to the High Court for consideration – not, as I said, when it was decided.

That’s where I got the idea.

I recall reading an article in which the episode was told in a way critical of his allegedly humane backers – including far left-wing historian Henry Reynolds.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 9:04 pm
Iggy, Iggy, Iggy.

This will all end in tears.

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 9:06 pm
No kae YOU are a simpleton. Completely unable to think for yourself.

Wrong. The University of YouTube is for real dim bulbs.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
I wasn’t specifically talking about the Queen candy. I don’t suppose when she is headed for the races, that she ducks out to some seedy neighbourhood to push junk, beat up her agents, or this sort of thing.

But the drug trade is most definitely co-ordinated by factions within the most powerful countries. The four security council countries have people involved for example.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
Queen ER II is actually 85!

This message brought to you by Graeme ‘teh Avian’ Bird!

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
The ailing Eddie Mabo had to take a bus (36 hours) when the case first went to the High Court for consideration

Lucky the case was not happening in this day and age as he probably wouldn’t have been able to afford the ticket, let alone the bus actually being on time.

Splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
“Like Arabian nights fantasies or something. Fantasies about Rudi Valentino with a cloth on his head:

the name “Rudi Valentino” certainly conjures up some kind of hot Arabian exotic sex appeal.

candy

3 Jun 12 at 9:09 pm
No kae is a simpleton. She is not interested in reality or evidence.

I mean its 11 years now. A bit too long for any grown-up to be believing in physically impossible Arab fairy-stories.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:09 pm
I wasn’t specifically talking about the Queen candy. I don’t suppose when she is headed for the races, that she ducks out to some seedy neighbourhood to push junk, beat up her agents, or this sort of thing.

I suppose she needs to be a street level crack dealer when she owns a large chunk of blue chip shares and real estate, plus the civil list?

Imbecile.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:09 pm
This is different.

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 9:10 pm
You don’t know where CL got the idea?

It’s easy.

His wife and children drove from Townsville to hear the judgement because they had no money to fly.

It was in a documentary of Eddie Mabo’s story.

Also true. But they only made it to Parramatta and missed the big event. The lawyers and luvvies didn’t care, though. It was about socking it to the evil Queensland Gubbermint. They couldn’t have given a hoot in hell about the Mabos.

http://www.mabonativetitle.com/info/weWon.htm

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 9:10 pm
For iggy, some reading.

http://www.911myths.com/indexold.html

http://www.debunking911.com/

http://sydney.edu.au/engineering/civil/wtc.shtml

kae

3 Jun 12 at 9:10 pm
Lucky the case was not happening in this day and age as he probably wouldn’t have been able to afford the ticket, let alone the bus actually being on time.

“Carbon” “taxes” – what a bummer, eh?

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:11 pm
I mean its 11 years now. A bit too long for any grown-up to be believing in physically impossible Arab fairy-stories

No. Every competent engineer and physicist says you are wrong. Combustion in intense situations gives different results to burning 1 mole of compound X in a lab.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:11 pm
“But the drug trade is most definitely co-ordinated by factions within the most powerful countries. The four security council countries have people involved for example.

i tend to think just your usual drug warlords with tenuous links to regular normal law-abiding society.

not sure about paedophilia. they may have tenticles throughout all levels of society?

candy

3 Jun 12 at 9:13 pm
burning 1 mole

Why dost you hate Moles so, dot?

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:17 pm
Yes technically you write it as Mol.

He is probably laughing his arse off at bird. What freaking lunatic.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
Inarguable Proof the Queen of England is Better Than President Obama: CLICK

“So awesome. She’s like a British Sarah Palin.”

I love chicks with guns.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 9:20 pm
You could burn 5 moles in a lab and still find Shagger’s DNA.

Splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 9:21 pm
It is great that he’s back.

Utterly unhinged, industrial grade lunacy at zero cost.

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:21 pm
Is that a SA-80?

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:22 pm
This is different.

No you are lying.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 9:23 pm
“No. Every competent engineer and physicist says you are wrong. ”

No they don’t. You are a liar. Not one competent engineer would contradict me on this matter unless lying under duress. The fact is that this is physically impossible, since the acceleration was at near free-fall. So that defies the laws of physics, since the upthrust from the steel and concrete would have meant massive divergence from free-fall acceleration as opposed to more minor divergence as photographed. Don’t tell lies. You get found out straight away.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:24 pm
37% of the “substantiated” reports out of the two hundred and eighty nine thousand child welfare reports in 2009 were allegations of “emotional abuse”.

Consider that witnessing domestic violence is considered “emotional abuse” of a child.

Then consider what the new laws expanding domestic violence to include “emotional abuse” are going to mean knowing that kids who “witness” this “emotional abusive” domestic violence are now considered to have been abused themselves.

Exactly. We’ve seen this kind of thing before from the society and family-wrecking left. It’s EXTREMELY important for them that domestic violence be not only very very bad (as it is) but also very very intractable. More bad publicity for evil traditional families, men (of course), more government money, more social workers etc.

What to do, what to do?

Too easy Campese. Just “redefine” what domestic violence violence is and sit back and watch as more and more traditional families are seen for what they truly are: evil, dysfunctional, in need of compulsory state intervention, and so on.

Something similar occurred a few years ago when the Victorian “human rights” agency found that its staff had next to nothing to do. The edict came down that they were to drum up business by broadening the definition of what a human rights abuse was and soliciting “victims” for a gig.

This is how the left rolls.

It’s why you have to destroy what they did when you win government; not play the loveable centrist game of keeping all of their social and cultural shit to avoid controversy – which has been the modus operandi of Coalition governments for decades.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 9:24 pm
Now its 11 years. Its morally unacceptable and embarrassing that you mental delinquents have not owned up to this crucial fact of history.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
Yes they do.

There will be no lying on this blog.

.

3 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
No you lying. Now you cannot find a competent engineer who would contradict me on this matter. Its just physics.

Ignatius Donnelly

3 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
Is that a SA-80?

Yes.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 9:27 pm
The towers did not fall at freefall rate. That is a myth, a lie, propagated by those who want you to believe that 911 was an inside job.

It. Is. Not. True.

But I know I’m wasting my time with this. So I won’t bother any more.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 9:30 pm
This is different.
No you are lying.

Admit it, Spot: This has been the best night for fruitcakery at the Cat for ages.

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 9:34 pm
Iggy, Iggy, Iggy.

This will all end in tears.

I’m not crying.

Sinclair Davidson

3 Jun 12 at 9:35 pm
This has been the best night for fruitcakery at the Cat for ages

How would you know. Fuck off.

Les Majesty

3 Jun 12 at 9:35 pm
Cut it out, Sinc!

Stop laughing.

kae

3 Jun 12 at 9:36 pm
It just got better! Les is here!

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 9:36 pm
Only someone allied with the shadow government would make that claim, Tom.

:: raises eyebrow meaningfully ::

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 9:37 pm
Daily OT needed?

Two days in and this one’s buggered.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 9:37 pm
It’s why you have to destroy what they did when you win government; not play the loveable centrist game of keeping all of their social and cultural shit to avoid controversy – which has been the modus operandi of Coalition governments for decades.

Agreed.

Implement the Fisk Doctrine, forthwith…

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 9:37 pm
This is how the left rolls. It’s why you have to destroy what they did when you win government…

Indeed. Sinistra delenda est.

dover_beach

3 Jun 12 at 9:38 pm
Sinistra delenda est.

Sinclair Davidson

3 Jun 12 at 9:40 pm
I’m not on any CIA list.

That what everyone on secret CIA surveil lists thinks.

Until it’s too late.

Mind the squirrels, sport.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 9:44 pm
Daily OT needed?

Agreed, CL – one each Monday to Friday, plus one for the weekend. We’re already logging around 2000 comments for the two weekly OTs. Six would give us 300-400 per thread – much faster loading. Unsure what effect that would have on the workload in what I assume is already a labour of love.

Tom

3 Jun 12 at 10:00 pm
Agreed, CL – one each Monday to Friday, plus one for the weekend. We’re already logging around 2000 comments for the two weekly OTs. Six would give us 300-400 per thread – much faster loading.

Teh Cat roolz.

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 10:06 pm
Perhaps if one asks Doomykins really sweetly, he’ll give us more Open Forums through the week..

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
The only down side to daily opens, I think, is that they detract from some of the truly excellent work posted by Catallaxy’s writers. Some of the work put into those posts is considerable but we’re here debating the collapse of the World Trade Centre.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
but we’re here debating the collapse of the World Trade Centre.

Debating? Looks more like people were amusing themselves.

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
His wife and children drove from Townsville to hear the judgement because they had no money to fly.

and

The ailing Eddie Mabo had to take a bus (36 hours) when the case first went to the High Court for consideration

These statements I have absolutely no trouble in believing, particularly having met some of the luvies involved.

Ronaldo

3 Jun 12 at 10:13 pm
Is open thread munificence really a problem?

Of all my devices they only evah load slowly on the toys – like the iPod.

Everything else is fine – having said that, more frequent threads may derail important discussions and/or abuse fests, like when MK50 lays into teh lobotomised Leichhardt lezzo…

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 10:18 pm
like when MK50 lays into teh lobotomised Leichhardt lezzo…

and gets his ass handed to him.

Adam Kane

3 Jun 12 at 10:31 pm
Give it a rest Iggy, or I’ll launch the black helicopters in 5 minutes.

boy on a bike

3 Jun 12 at 10:34 pm
and gets his ass handed to him.

Never yet – and more frequent open threads won’t increase the likelihood.

Rabz

3 Jun 12 at 10:35 pm
Never yet – and more frequent open threads won’t increase the likelihood.

Oh Come On said there were several examples of Mk schooling Les on this thread. But that’s not true. There aren’t any. It seems that neither you nor anyone else can provide an example of Mk winning an argument.

Adam Kane

3 Jun 12 at 10:48 pm
Heed BoaB’s advice, Iggy. The Rangers have specially genetically modified killer African honey badgers which look exactly like common ground squirrels but are every bit as deadly, and the 160th SOAR will airdrop them wherever they are required. I understand the SAS has a similar programme but with koala bears, and they are not afraid to deploy them against civilians (hence the occasional “drop bears” story that gets out).

I’m worried about your safety, Iggy. That’s why I think you need to get offline now.

I care.

sdog

3 Jun 12 at 10:48 pm
Am I reading this right? Megan Gale and Jennifer Hawkins are lezzos who want to marry each other? Sweet!

Infidel Tiger

3 Jun 12 at 10:49 pm
Am I reading this right? Megan Gale and Jennifer Hawkins are lezzos who want to marry each other? Sweet!

When did happen and is there a sex tape?

JC

3 Jun 12 at 10:54 pm
Why is it easier for some people to believe in conspiracies than reality?

splatacrobat

3 Jun 12 at 10:54 pm
Adam,

Will you please stop annoying everyone. It’s past your bedtime and it’s school in the morning.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 10:56 pm
George W. said some dumb things.

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 11:02 pm
What George Costanza once called a “lesbian sighting”?

Wait, what?

Where?

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 11:07 pm
Inarguable Proof the Queen of England is Better Than President Obama

Pity they didn’t get a shot with her wielding one from the hip. Although I understand that on Prince William’s most recent trip Down Under, the Aussie soldiers who watched him shoot with an LMG thought he was pretty good.

perturbed

3 Jun 12 at 11:09 pm
I see they’re making – or have made – a movie on Eddie Mabo. I wonder if they’ll show Henry Reynolds and the white luvvies dropping the sick old man off to the bus stop for his 3000 kilometre trip home.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 11:11 pm
Will you please stop annoying everyone. It’s past your bedtime and it’s school in the morning.

Nice interference you’re running there. That’s what I’m talking about, Mr Beta.

Adam Kane

3 Jun 12 at 11:23 pm
Interference for whom? Lol I have no idea who you;re scraping with tonight only that you need to get to school in the morning and it’s past your bedtime. Now run along.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 11:26 pm
Interference for whom?

mk50. Happens any time he is criticized or under threat.

Adam Kane

3 Jun 12 at 11:27 pm
OMG. You are sooooo boring, Adam.

And Mk50 owns you mentally.

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 11:33 pm
mk50. Happens any time he is criticized or under threat.

Really? Point to a few direct examples where that’s happened, after which you need to get to bed.

Look Dickhead, yesterday I asked you a simple question, which was that if there are only Assad and the lunatic Muslim Botherhood or their supporters in Syria which would you choose.

You were too fucking cowardly to answer the question and ball up.

You lying little shit. Get to bed.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 11:33 pm
OMG. You are sooooo boring, Adam.

Isn’t he. He’s the dullest newbie I’ve seen for a while.

JC

3 Jun 12 at 11:34 pm
GREEN SCAM: 80% of Green Energy Loans Went to Obama Donors – 19 Companies Went Bust.

News at 11.

Gab

3 Jun 12 at 11:40 pm
Little Australia, punching above it’s weight again. WTF?

One of the least examined but most influential bodies in Australia is the Academy of Science. Its Fellows such as Kurt Lambeck, Mike Raupach, Graeme Pearman, John Church and John Zillman are big contributors to Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports, and Academy committees are full of IPCC authors and reviewers.

In the 2007 IPCC Working Group 1 (Science) report, analyst John McLean has shown how Australian official scientists and bureaucrats made 362 review comments, second only to the US with 689, and leaving UK (49), Canada (51) and even Germany (179) looking like slackers.[1]

What is going on here. We made 362 submissions second only to the US. How freaking embarrassing.

http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2012/6/our-planet-saving-science-lobbyist-the-integrity-of-the-australian-academy-of-science

JC

3 Jun 12 at 11:46 pm
Kurt Lambeck, Mike Raupach, Graeme Pearman, John Church and John Zillman

Never heard of them.

C.L.

3 Jun 12 at 11:49 pm
We really are moving into a dystopian nightmare:

Australian Early Development Index

We are providing $28 million every three years to continue the Australian Early Development Index (AEDI); a world-first in the collection of information about childhood development. The AEDI provides us with a snapshot of how children in different communities have developed by the time that they start school.
This data will be collected every three years (2012, 2015, 2018, etc) and provides information on physical health and wellbeing, social competence, emotional maturity, language and cognitive skills (school-based), and communication skills and general knowledge of children in their first year of full-time schooling.

That is, every three years children will be subjected to a compulsory government psychological evaluation, where the government will record every persons “social competence” and “emotional maturity” from age five onwards.

http://acecqa.gov.au/storage/A%20great%20start%20in%20life%20for%20Australian%20kids%20booklet%20171111.pdf

twostix

4 Jun 12 at 12:01 am
Never heard of them.

They’d be on the league table. Same place you’ll find Sarah Hyphen-Hyphen’s “Australia’s Top Scientists”.

Toxic

4 Jun 12 at 12:03 am
They’d be on the league table. Same place you’ll find Sarah Hyphen-Hyphen’s “Australia’s Top Scientists”.

You know Tim Flannery is now a member of the academy. If he is I’m expecting my membership to be in the mail at any time now. Birdie is getting his membership too.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:08 am
the government will record every persons “social competence” and “emotional maturity”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VJVw32EkIM

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
FMD. This is the first time I’ve read this:

A new book by Hoover Institution fellow Peter Schweizer details the startling extent of the cronyism that has pervaded President Obama’s “green jobs” push. According to Schweizer, 4 out of every 5 renewable energy companies backed by the Energy Department was “run by or primarily owned by Obama financial backers.”

So Australia will do the poor-man’s version of this with Tubbsie Milne’s slush fund, which was passed by parliament last week as far as I know. There’ll be enough work to keep a battery of investigative journalists busy for years. But half the media will be trying to suppress it!

Tom

4 Jun 12 at 12:11 am
For anyone who thinks the LNP government will be superior to this one: flashback 2006:

March 2006 – New Government plan for compulsory preschool education

Julie Bishop has proposed that all children in Australia should attend a compulsory preschool year. The intention is that a common program across all states and territories will ensure that early education is provided by qualified staff in an accredited environment.

Yes the freedom loving Liberals want parents to be forced to send their kids for another year of government schooling – meaning in NSW that would be 14 years in institutions to learn how to read and write poorly.

The only thing stopping such a thing so far is the lack of pre-school teachers and infrastructure. That is being rectified right now:

Early childhood education should be available for everyone, regardless of location, background or family income. But at the moment there are Australian families missing out due to a lack of facilities or not enough places where they live.
To help fix this, the Australian Government is providing $970 million over five years to achieve universal access to early childhood education by 2013 for all children in the year before school.
Universal Access is a commitment made by all states and territories to give all kids access to a quality early childhood program, delivered by a university trained educator, for 15 hours a week, 40 weeks a year, in the year before full-time schooling.
These programs are accessible to all Australian children (but not compulsory) and will be delivered in child care centres, standalone preschools and school-based preschools.

Not compulsory…LOL, for about a second.

twostix

4 Jun 12 at 12:12 am
For God’s sake, Australian women – look after your own children.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:26 am
Exclusive in The Australian:

Rudd/Gillard lost $12 billion.

They should be jailed. Why not?

$12m lost in BER school closures.

TAXPAYERS have spent $11.7 million sprucing up 33 schools that were shut down after being given federal grants for new buildings and renovations.

While the Gillard government has managed to claw back $4.5m in grants from 12 of the closed schools, and is still looking at the others, it will have to write off $865,702 spent on repairs, painting or renovations.

Every primary school in Australia was given funding for a new building and refurbishment work under Labor’s $16 billion Building the Education Revolution.

But the federal Education Department has told the Senate that 12 per cent of funding approved for 10,472 projects still had not been spent, three years later. And 225 projects had been axed due to school closures or amalgamations.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:29 am
The Kenyan’s nostalgic wants McCain as the nominee.

Later Friday, at a fundraiser in Chicago, Obama made much the same point about his 2008 opponent. “The last time we ran, we had a Republican candidate who — I had some profound disagreements with him, but he acknowledged the need for immigration reform, and acknowledged the need for campaign finance reform, acknowledged the need for policies that would do something about climate change,” Obama said. “Now, what we’ve got is not just a nominee but a Congress and a Republican Party that have a fundamentally different vision about where we need to go as a country.”

A few days earlier, when the Obama campaign attacked Romney for declining to disavow Donald Trump, White House spokesman Jay Carney again invoked McCain. “You’ll recall that in the 2008 race, Senator John McCain…made a decision not to ally with extreme elements in his own party,” Carney said. At about the same time, the Obama campaign released a web video that also featured McCain nostalgia. “John McCain stood up to the voices of extremism in his party,” the video said. “Why won’t Mitt Romney do the same?”

The last week, more than any in the campaign so far, has shown Team Obama that Romney and his aides are prepared to fight as hard as needed to win in November. The Romney-organized shouting-down of top Obama aide David Axelrod in Boston; the Romney sneak event at the old Solyndra headquarters in California; Romney’s refusal to give in to Democratic demands to repudiate Trump; and Romney’s determination to avoid side controversies while remaining singularly focused on the economy all revealed a candidate who has resolved to battle Obama on his own, and not Obama’s, terms. It’s no wonder Obama has become nostalgic for the relatively comfortable days of 2008.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:30 am
How.

Elizabeth Warren yesterday: ‘If elected, I’ll be first Cherokee senator from Massachusetts.’

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:32 am
Ahahahaha.

One of those animations of a story du jour:

Elizabeth Warren’s proud heritage is discusses by a Native American and Indian.

The reaction shot at 0:43 made me laugh out loud.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:38 am
Pyne was good today on Bolts show.

Dude’s improving markedly.

twostix

4 Jun 12 at 12:40 am
‘If elected, I’ll be first Cherokee senator from Massachusetts.’

No you won’t, you delusional twit.

Fisky

4 Jun 12 at 12:45 am
“The last time we ran, we had a Republican candidate who — I had some profound disagreements with him, but he acknowledged the need for immigration reform, and acknowledged the need for campaign finance reform, acknowledged the need for policies that would do something about climate change.”

Waah waah, why won’t the Republicans give us another 10 million Leftist voters, ban Republican political advertising, and tax the air???

Fisky

4 Jun 12 at 12:50 am
The last time we ran, we had a Republican candidate who — I had some profound disagreements with him, but he acknowledged the need for immigration reform, and acknowledged the need for campaign finance reform, acknowledged the need for policies that would do something about climate change.

Ahahahahaha.

The old Democrat classic. Yesterday’s Republican is always the good guy. Today’s ‘extremist’ Republican is the bad guy.

No no, lefties. Your old tricks are not going to work.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 1:00 am
Romney aides believe that cooperating with Democrats and media figures who are demanding a Trump disavowal would most certainly lead to more calls for more disavowals of other figures in the future — leaving Romney spending as much time apologizing for his supporters as campaigning for president. Team Romney views it as a silly and one-sided game designed to distract voters from the central issue of the race, which they remain convinced will be President Obama’s handling of the economy.

Yep. Mitt should remind them about The Kenyan’s defense of “Pastor” Wright when he said: Wright was like a father to him.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:03 am
Romney has the focus of someone like I’ve never seen before.

Another reason Romney is wary of such concessions is that John McCain tried them, and they didn’t do him any good. …………..
So the bottom line is, Romney is determined to stay away from anything that distracts him from the main issue of the campaign. In the end, the thinking goes, the heart of the campaign will always be the economy and Barack Obama’s stewardship of it. Repudiating, or not repudiating, Donald Trump won’t change that.

Fuck’em. Don’t back down for a second, as it won’t help.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:07 am
Not Wright, JC. Bill Maher.

Romney must fight back like Sununu did the other day against Solepanel O’Brien. Only now he should start demanding that Obama hand back Maher’s $1 million and apologise to America’s women.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 1:11 am
Mark Steyn’s brilliant latest:

Twilight of the West.

The Eurovision Song Contest doesn’t get a lot of attention in the United States, but on the Continent it’s long been seen as the perfect Euro-metaphor. Years before the euro came along, it was the prototype pan-European institution, and predicated on the same assumptions. Eurovision took the national cultures that produced Mozart, Vivaldi, and Debussy, and in return gave us “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” (winner, 1969), “Ding-Ding-a-Dong” (winner, 1975), and “Diggi-Loo-Diggi-Ley” (winner, 1984). The euro took the mark, the lira, and the franc, and merged them to create the “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” of currencies.

His point is serious and I agree with it:

That’s to say, the unsustainable “bubble” is not student debt or subprime mortgages or anything else. The bubble is us, and the assumptions of entitlement. Too many citizens of advanced Western democracies live a life they have not earned, and are not willing to earn.

RTWT.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 1:15 am
Lol… CL

Let surrogates do the dirty work of making the Kenyan’s campaign eat a shit sandwich every day. We want president Romney to focus on the economy.

President Romney is above all that, as be explains to people what needs to be done to repair the damage left to him to solve.

I really think it’s starting to dawn on the dipsticks they are losing. I get the same feeling the Rudd deflation is going on here and the more desperate the Kenyan becomes the more errors they make.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:19 am
Fairfax poll:

- Gillard three points more unpopular than Abbott.

- Labor drops to 26 percent primary – equal to its record low last year.

- Coalition leads Labor by a massive 57 to 43.

- More people want Rudd to replace Gillard than want Turnbull to replace Abbott (by 2 points).

Now wait for it… Playing the pox on both their houses trick, the SMH leads with all this as bad for Abbott:

Abbott and Gillard both on the nose: poll.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott’s disapproval rating has risen to a record high to be just three points behind the prime minister’s, according to the latest Fairfax/Nielsen poll.

Mr Abbott’s disapproval rating rose five points of 57 per cent.

But that is of little consolation for Prime Minister Julia Gillard, whose disapproval rating remains steady at 60 per cent.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 1:22 am
Let surrogates do the dirty work of making the Kenyan’s campaign eat a shit sandwich every day. We want president Romney to focus on the economy.

Yeah, OK. Good point. You’re right.

Send out the Sunami.

Rick Perry is doing his bit too:

Rick Perry: Electing Barack Obama Was Our National “Oops” Moment.

“Three and a half years, nearly 100 rounds of golf. Barack Obama has exploded the debt in this country. He has passed a stimulus program that grew government and not the economy. He socialized health care and he armed Mexican drug cartels,” Perry said.

“Admit it America, 2008 was our national “oops” moment,” he added — a reference to his infamous debate gaffe.

Perry, a one-time “yell leader” at Texas A&M, put his sports knowledge to use firing up the base, closing his speech by invoking the local team colors.

“And whether you are Tar Heel blue or Blue Devil blue, we all agree that this next election we need North Carolina to be Wolf Pack red,” he said, as the audience rose to their feet. “Let’s get it right, let’s win this election. Let’s go do everything that we have to do to deliver North Carolina for Mitt Romney and the Republican Party.”

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 1:28 am
No shit Sherlock

Rendell: Recalling Scott Walker Was A “Mistake”

Fmr. Gov. Ed Rendell (D-PA): “And conversely, our guys made a mistake by not — at that point — raising the victory flag. They’d accomplished a lot of what they wanted to accomplish, declare victory. Don’t get an election that’s divisive, that may have an influence on the presidential election. We made a mistake doing that.”

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:39 am
I wouldn’t mind Perry as VP. I think even the American people could stomach him after what they’ve been through recently. I visited Texas last year and the atmosphere there compared to California was like night and day in difference.

As we go through GFC Mark II, the voters are going to be stampeding toward President-Elect (it sounds more realistic to me JC) Romney.

Alex Pundit

4 Jun 12 at 2:18 am
Lol… CL

Let surrogates do the dirty work of making the Kenyan’s campaign eat a shit sandwich every day. We want president Romney to focus on the economy.

Indeed. Our motto is “punch back twice as hard.”

#TeamPitbull

sdog

4 Jun 12 at 2:35 am
“And whether you are Tar Heel blue or Blue Devil blue, we all agree that this next election we need North Carolina to be Wolf Pack red”

Quite so. The only times my home state has gone blue in my lifetime have been for Jimmy Carter, and then for Barack Obama. Let it be another 35 years before we ever go blue again.

sdog

4 Jun 12 at 2:38 am
Hilarious Obama campaign ad gaffe:

No, this wasn’t a Romney send-up. It’s real.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 3:15 am
I have to hand it to Rick Perry for his humility and self-deprecation. Great line!

Fisky

4 Jun 12 at 3:19 am
Potemkin’s Village

We consider it a good principle to… here

Grigory Potemkin

4 Jun 12 at 5:35 am
Re Recalling Walker a mistake. Let’s hope Walker wins big and that represents the high tide of big union, big vested interest, big spending, big debt America.

Let Walker win and make it the political Stalingrad in the war to end the age of entitlement. After all they chose Wisconsin and they sent all their people into the State to try and force out a guy repairing the state’s balance sheet and it’s economy. Let them politically die in the snowy wastes of Wisconsin.

And then in November – Romney!

John Comnenus

4 Jun 12 at 7:01 am
The left has been trying desperately all day to pin this “Walker’s Illegitimate Love-Child from the Girlfriend He Knocked Up And Then Abandoned!!!!” smear on him, John… hilariously, it just blew up in their [collective] face.

So. much. fail.

sdog

4 Jun 12 at 8:14 am
Devastatingly accurate portrayal of the european crises by Walter Russell Mead in The Australian (well done da Oz)but weak in his assessment of the US.

THE European monetary crisis is like a botched root canal: painful, expensive, interminable. Years go by and the world helplessly sits in the chair as the incompetent dentists poke, scrape, bicker and endlessly drill.

From time to time there are shots of novocaine – usually in the form of liquidity from the European Central Bank -. that reduce the pain to a dull throb, but there are no signs of improvement, no signs that the long and futile European process is coming to any kind of successful conclusion

We are frightened and bored; we can’t look away but we can’t bear to master the details of this most tedious of world crises.

rtwt

JamesK

4 Jun 12 at 8:26 am
smear on him, John… hilariously, it just blew up in their [collective] face.

The world really needs to fear the Obummeer October surprise especially if he’s 10 points behind.

JamesK

4 Jun 12 at 8:29 am
seems hard to believe that polls find m. turnbull more favoured than Mr Abbott. who even remembers him except as some kind of dill over an email thing?

how could Coalition lead 57:43 otherwise today’s poll.

carissa

4 Jun 12 at 8:41 am
anna wintour!

FFS, how clueless can they be?

Edie and Patsy would have been better value…

Rabz

4 Jun 12 at 8:45 am
Thanks for providing your links Grigory, they are always good for a laugh

Token

4 Jun 12 at 8:45 am
Abbott and Gillard both on the nose: poll.

For a laugh, I had a quick listen to the Green-activist and Grattan this morning on RN and after avoiding the Labor primary in the mid 20′s & breezing past the fact the 2PP is so shite they focused on the real story from the poll…

…Turnbull is ahead of Abbott.

You can hear in their voices they are on their knees praying to the great AGW idol that the carbin tax will work.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 8:50 am
Candy
You’ve used your other name again.

kae

4 Jun 12 at 8:59 am
Guys which site would you recommend for etrading? Only a few trades for investment – or would I be better off with a broker? Very little volume.

Thanks

Helen Armstrong

4 Jun 12 at 9:03 am
Looks like the best Defense Minister evaaaa is looking to throw another couple hundred members of the ADF under the bus in an effort to distract attention from this fetid government.

DETAILS of more than 1000 “plausible” allegations of abuse by military and defence personnel collected by an inquiry set up by the Defence Minister, Stephen Smith, are under wraps while senior ministers decide how to handle them.

You can bet the Liars Party will return to the pre-Shagger Thomson standard of justice and hand the people named out as if they are guilty before any matter hits the court.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 9:08 am
That is, every three years children will be subjected to a compulsory government psychological evaluation, where the government will record every persons “social competence” and “emotional maturity” from age five onwards.

Wow, think of all the new epidemics of self esteem and new forms of abuse they will be able to develop with this data!

Token

4 Jun 12 at 10:25 am
Julie Bishop has proposed that all children in Australia should attend a compulsory preschool year. The intention is that a common program across all states and territories will ensure that early education is provided by qualified staff in an accredited environment.

This is why I believe in engaging in politics and paying your dues etc but also “going off the grid”.

I am sure as hell I could educate my children better than Julie Bishop.

Libertarians should co opt churches etc and set up rivalrous charities competiting with welfare agencies etc.

That clever little fucker Rudd knew this was a threat to Statism and changed the philanthropy rules. What a sociopathic little c**t.

.

4 Jun 12 at 10:36 am
Fairfax Media Ltd. (FXJ.AX)
-ASX

0.61 0.03(3.94%) 10:11

Mike of Marion

4 Jun 12 at 10:38 am
Guess who?

In my youth I was a left-wing member of the Labor Party who came from a working class background and who flirted with Marxism without ever taking it very seriously. Apart from the litany of Cold War Stalinist atrocities I had read Das Capital as an undergraduate and I could see the problems and the narrowness in Marx’s class-based analysis. I supported an increased role for government in the economy during the Whitlam years but also greatly applauded the sensational 25% tariff cut that Whitlam introduced. This was one of the most profound economic changes ever to impact on the Australian economy and a change that initiated decades of on-going microeconomic reform. My dissatisfaction with Labor reflected my view that Labor comprises incompetent managers and intellectually low-level people who have sentimentality but often not a lot of administrative intelligence. In my original home state of NSW the Labor Party comprise third-raters who cloak their incompetence with hypocrisy and dishonesty. Generally I have maintained this negative view of Labor for decades. I think that, whatever the transparent failings of the Coalition – there are many – they will be better economic managers and generally smarter when it comes to making policy judgements. For this reason I have voted for the Liberal Party for more than 2 decades.

At the last election however I voted for the Greens and at the next election I will vote for Labor mainly because of the criticality I see in the climate change issue. I see it as a long-term priority issue potentially impacting on the survivability of the human species.

Now that I earn a reasonable income and live quite well I guess I can afford the luxury of being less narrowly focused on economic imperatives. But I just find the more strident varieties of libertarianism illogical and narrow-minded.

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 10:38 am
They won’t token. Blame Brendan Nelson. Do seven year olds really need to be ranked? Education isn’t competitive. Ranking kids at that age totally fucks their “self esteem”. It isn’t about never having kids lose or never miss the cut, they have sport and other things to learn from that. Let’s rank kids academically, but not let them lose at sport? Revenge of the nerds at it’s finest. Entrance exams may be competitive, and sensibly so.

All children and adults learn at different rates. Compulsory pre school is going to achieve what? parents can stop reading to their kids? Lazy arseholes. My intel in the system tends to indicate the best thing for kids is to get a tutor and ignore the State system once they have passed the objecive standards for their stage or age, or have been trained in how to maximise HSC results. Give them a well rounded education without becoming a “Tiger Mum”.

.

4 Jun 12 at 10:43 am
The estimable Joel Pollack at Breitbart:

As investors panic over the debt crisis in Greece, Italy, and Spain, Germany has emerged as a safe haven for investors–so much so that the interest rate on ten-year German government bonds dropped below zero on Friday. That means investors are so desperate for security that they are willing to accept less money at the end of ten years than they invest today; they will pay the German government to take their money.

Based on negative 2-year bond yields for German bonds:

The German two-year yield slid to as low as minus 0.002 percent, the first time the rate on the securities has been negative, according to data compiled by Bloomberg, and was at 0.005 percent as of 9:03 a.m. London time. The price of the zero percent note due in June 2014 was at 99.99.

A yield below zero means investors will receive less in repayments on the German securities through maturity than the amount they paid to buy them.

JamesK

4 Jun 12 at 10:45 am
I don’t know Jason. They sound like a protectionist arsewipe.

Anyone hate those patent trolls at AAPL?

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/apples-mind-bogglingly-greedy-and-evil-license-agreement/4360

.

4 Jun 12 at 10:45 am
Interesting James.

The Fisher hypothesis looks like it is starting to break down.

Woe to you, France and Germany.

.

4 Jun 12 at 10:48 am
Dear old Harry, dot.

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 10:53 am
Toowoomba meet, Tuesday nite 6 onward email me via my blog for more detials.

Is that OK with you, Splat?

kae

4 Jun 12 at 10:53 am
Someone voting for the “earthians” thinks we’re narrow minded?

I wonder if he’ll retire to Croomistan and become another one of their liabilities we pay for. That hard working miners, smokers and drug users will pay for.

What a leech.

.

4 Jun 12 at 10:55 am
As investors panic over the debt crisis in Greece, Italy, and Spain, Germany has emerged as a safe haven for investors–so much so that the interest rate on ten-year German government bonds dropped below zero on Friday. That means investors are so desperate for security that they are willing to accept less money at the end of ten years than they invest today; they will pay the German government to take their money.

Why wouldn’t they just put their money outside the EU? Or do people think that the whole world is going to be fsked in 10 years?

twostix

4 Jun 12 at 10:56 am
Accompanying picture to this story proves Obama is gay.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 10:57 am
Paul Krugman in a staggering fact defying denialist spiel on ABC’s “This Week”: ‘We’re talking as if a billion dollars was a lot of money’ and ‘It’s Terribly unfair Obama’s being judged on the failure of the economy’

JamesK

4 Jun 12 at 11:03 am
Who knew a motion to elect a committee chairman could get out of control like this?

http://www.policymic.com/articles/9163/ron-paul-delegates-arrested-as-they-win-a-majority-at-louisiana-gop-convention

Jarrah

4 Jun 12 at 11:03 am
Stix – the FX rate could seriously go against them so hard you’d be willing to cop -.5% p.a rather then a permanent depreciation of 45% or so.

.

4 Jun 12 at 11:05 am
I actually like most of Harry’s work and regard him as a sincere convert to reluctantly voting Left since I used to read him before climate change and he was always a crusty old Tory. However his bitterness against libertarians is almost as bad as New Gold Dreams and the fact is what Australia does about climate change will mean bugger all for ‘the survivability of the human species’

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 11:06 am
Fatty Roxon to ban FOI access to government spending:

PETER SLIPPER’S new coat and tails cost taxpayers $1248. His total travel bill in his first six months as Speaker of the Parliament was more than $18,000. He has spent more than $8500 on catering…

But the Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, has said the government will shield remaining MPs from such scrutiny by moving Parliament outside the reach of FOI.

Her office said she was considering a bill to ensure the perks Parliament paid or administered – as well as the $230 million a year its departments managed – remained secret. ”It has been long-accepted practice that the parliamentary departments are exempt from FOI,” her spokesman said in a statement. ”The government is considering its options to correct this anomaly.”

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 11:07 am
Harry is a far left-wing lunatic who occasionally masqerades as an economic rationalist – usually to paint fanciful pictures of Labor superiority in micro-economic reform. An example is his laughable nonsense about Whitlam’s tariff cut. Gough only did that to bash the business class he and his taxeater father always loathed. The singe most difficult, most courageous and most important micro-economic reform of the past 50 years was Howard and Reith’s war on against the thieves and communists on the waterfront. Nothing else comes close.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 11:12 am
I would have said GST.

.

4 Jun 12 at 11:14 am
Melbourne lord mayor advocates flowers to fight crime.

One of Melbourne’s top police officers, Supt Rod Wilson, made a telling statement to me about city safety some time ago: “We can’t arrest our way out of this.”

Commenters set them straight.

Eddystone

4 Jun 12 at 11:22 am
Asylum gangs wise up to policy change

People smugglers are deliberately crewing asylum-seeker boats to Australia with teenagers, knowing that recent policy changes make it nearly impossible for authorities to establish the age of new arrivals.

Australian Federal Police admit they have almost no way of proving an accused crew member is an adult after doubts were raised about the use of wrist X-rays to determine age.

Police say the criminals who organise asylum vessels are aware of the situation and now recruit Indonesians who look young.

No. The criminals are Gillard et al.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 11:27 am
Profligacy, thy name is Labor Greens.

RENT for the Canberra building that will house the carbon cops responsible for policing the carbon tax has jumped $1.3 million a year to cover a variety of factors, including car parking, electricity and rising rent costs.

The Clean Energy Regulator is due to move into the building after the Department of Climate Change signed a $25.2 million five-year lease last month.

Just 330 regulator staff are moving to the office block in Farrell Place, Canberra, a regulator spokeswoman said, with the rent bill coming to $15,000 per employee.

The building is one of five Canberra offices currently leased by the Department of Climate Change.

It had previously paid $3.7 million a year but department staff are preparing to move to the six star energy rated building Nishi, at a cost of $6.4 million a year.

How long before Roxon places a ban on all FOI requests including those to do with APS activities?

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 11:38 am
Look Dickhead, yesterday I asked you a simple question, which was that if there are only Assad and the lunatic Muslim Botherhood or their supporters in Syria which would you choose.

You were too fucking cowardly to answer the question and ball up.

They’re not the only two choices, dumbass, as I explained already. So the question is based on misinformation. Anyway I already answered a very similar question from Tom.

Mk50 owns you mentally.

LOL. I’m not the one who brought him up, water boy.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 11:42 am
Accompanying picture to this story proves Obama is gay.

No wonder he keeps the wookie around.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 11:44 am
Guess who?

Young Harry of course. Who else would be so self absorbed.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 11:46 am
“We can’t arrest our way out of this.”

The entire concept of law enforcement is that you can arrest your way out of it.

Criminal codes work because they change the calculus of the decision. If crimes are never punished, then the only thing stopping you from breaking the law is your own conscience. That’s not strong enough glue on its own to create civil society. It might work for a village but not for a metropolis.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 11:47 am
mk50. Happens any time he is criticized or under threat.

Adam Kane

3 Jun 12 at 11:27 pm

LOL. I’m not the one who brought him up, water boy.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 11:42 am

Lying liar who lies.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 11:48 am
Adam
I don’t know why you’re going on about this issue. We already stuffed up twice in Egypt and Libya.

Asaad denies that the massacre was carried out by his forces but even assuming this is false, another possibility is that the military action went out of control. It’s what happens during periods of instability like the one you want to further forment in Syria.

As to the relevance of Afghanistan, it’s the fact that Syrian children by and large aside from the political repression have not fared badly under the Asaad government. They are well educated and not oppressed by backward mullahs who keep girls out of school. This would possibly change under a change of government.

The appropriate conservative/libertarian response is wait and see realpolitik.

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 11:49 am
People smugglers are deliberately crewing asylum-seeker boats to Australia with teenagers, knowing that recent policy changes make it nearly impossible for authorities to establish the age of new arrivals.

…which moves “Fresh-Air” Carr’s deal with Indo over the Corby case for stupidity squared to stupidity cubed.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 11:50 am
They’re not the only two choices, dumbass, as I explained already.

You’re the resident foreign Affairs department expert on Syria now, you moron?

So the question is based on misinformation.

No it’s not because so far into the Arab Spring I’m yet to see a Jefferson arise. All I’m seeing are beards.

Anyway I already answered a very similar question from Tom.

Look dickhead, there are no saints in the middle east. Only devils with the exception of Israel of course.

Stop talking about stuff you have no fucking idea about, you laughable clown.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 11:53 am
I don’t know why you’re going on about this issue. We already stuffed up twice in Egypt and Libya.

Asaad denies that the massacre was carried out by his forces but even assuming this is false, another possibility is that the military action went out of control. It’s what happens during periods of instability like the one you want to further forment in Syria.

Are we doing this discussion again this week?

We understand your point that Assad is an A-class monster…but as has been noted so many times:

1. Is it realistic to think the autocrats in Moscow will allow Assad to fall, and thereby lose access to that warm water Med Sea port

2. Will the alternative by worse, whereby the sectarian / religious / cultural rivalries explode

3. Will Turkey be forced to invade to protect its minorities…

etc.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 11:54 am
SNAP JC

Token

4 Jun 12 at 11:55 am
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201221794018300979.html

The US intelligence chief says al-Qaeda’s branch in Iraq may have carried out recent bombings in Syria and infiltrated armed opposition groups fighting President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

Bombings in Damascus and Aleppo since December targeting intelligence buildings “had all the earmarks
of an al-Qaeda-like attack”, James Clapper told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday.

“And so we believe al-Qaeda in Iraq is extending its reach into Syria.”

Syrian state media said “suicide bombings” on December 23 in Damascus killed dozens of people and the government blamed al-Qaeda for the attacks. The opposition claimed that authorities had carried out the attacks.

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 11:56 am
I don’t know why you’re going on about this issue. We already stuffed up twice in Egypt and Libya.

I disagree we stuffed up in Egypt. They’re having elections and if they have Islamics in power, inside the scaffolding of democracy, then that’s their business. That they’re electing religious nuts doesn’t mean the thing was a failure.

Libya was mismanaged from the outset, but the major tactical error was that we didn’t have the lines running into the country, didn’t know enough about who we were supporting, and it turns out that we were supporting Islamists. Well, we’re doing the same thing now in Syria, but knowingly. But it’s soft support so that any criticism is like “don’t get involved.” We’re involved.

There are many groups vying for power in Libya, there are more secularists than in either Libya or Afghanistan and there is absolutely no guarantee that the worst case will occur.

Plus okay I admit it: I am absolutely sickened by Assad’s sadism and cruelty. it’s moved out of realpolitik for me and it’s a moral issue.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 11:57 am
He’s skipping class at school to annoy and bore people shitless, Token.

Adding the sanctimony and he’s like Jazzabelle’s mini-me.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 11:57 am
Stop talking about stuff you have no fucking idea about, you laughable clown.

fuck off water boy.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 11:59 am
It is not worth liberating Syria if we have to fight Russia to do so.

Let Israel sort them out. It’s cheap.

.

4 Jun 12 at 11:59 am
Lying liar who lies.

You deleted the first half of the exchange Gab. It was with Rabz and OCO.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 12:00 pm
Deleted nothing, schoolboy. You’re the one with an unhealthy interest in mk50.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:02 pm
I disagree we stuffed up in Egypt.

Of course not. supporting the ouster of that callous prick without even giving the Egyptian liberal left a chance to organize themselves was a great fucking idea by the Kenyan and the rest of the stupid western left.

They’re having elections and if they have Islamics in power, inside the scaffolding of democracy, then that’s their business.

Are you a fucking moron or what dickhead. This is the Muslim botherhood we’re talking about bearded fucking freaks who will let you vote. Once.

That they’re electing religious nuts doesn’t mean the thing was a failure.

Lol. Oh fuck off and stop boring everyone, you clown. Of course it was a failure. In any event it’s not our concern and if they continue to supply Hamas and their other clients with rockets etc to attack Israel, the Israelis should simply nuke them into the bronze age.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:04 pm
fuck off water boy.

Lol. That’s it.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:05 pm
JC on Assad: “anyone with a wife that hot can’t be all bad.”

I don’t think anything else needs to be said.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 12:06 pm
“THE navy has ~~intercepted~~ greeted another boat carrying ~~suspected asylum seekers~~ illegal immigrants – the fourth in four days – off Australia’s northwest coast.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/navy-intercepts-fourth-boat-in-four-days/story-e6frfku0-1226382824229#ixzz1wmnuFLBp

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:07 pm
It is not worth liberating Syria if we have to fight Russia to do so.

True. But arm the good guys though like the Christians etc.

Let Israel sort them out. It’s cheap.

Always is.

Dot I have no interest in that shithole, except to say things aren’t clear over there and the west needs to be careful it isn’t being duped.

Just arm the Christians to the teeth and then put your feet up and watch.

The school boy here thinks it has potential as a libertarian paradise.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:08 pm
Plus okay I admit it: I am absolutely sickened by Assad’s sadism and cruelty. it’s moved out of realpolitik for me and it’s a moral issue.

We respect that point. No-one could object the natural anger that comes from seeing the millions endlessly screwed over in that region.

Who didn’t get the same feeling the same about monsters and thieves in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.

Considering the experiences in those countries, unless the West is willing expend Blood & Treasure to occupy the country like it did in Iraq, when it comes to Syria we should watch and wait.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 12:09 pm
I don’t think anything else needs to be said.

‘sactly.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
Gab

People are always going to come to Australia.

Why does it bother you so much they are boaties?

We didn’t have mandatory detention before 1994.

Was it really that bad before then?

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:12 pm
Who didn’t get the same feeling the same about monsters and thieves in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.

The Shah of Iran used to torture lots of people too.

But the ME would be in a better state today if he’d remained in power. Iran would be a powerhouse today,

jtfsoon

4 Jun 12 at 12:13 pm
You’re the one with an unhealthy interest in mk50.

I’m interested in the fact that so many people here worship everything that comes off the keyboard of a non-libertarian homophobic racist. I have to admit it’s kind of perplexing. but no… you deleted this:

Rabz:like when MK50 lays into teh lobotomised Leichhardt lezzo…
Adam: …and gets his ass handed to him
Rabz: never yet…
Adam: Oh Come On said there were several examples of Mk schooling Les on this thread. But that’s not true. There aren’t any.

etc. So don’t fucking call me a liar, just because you’re too stupid to follow a conversation.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 12:14 pm
Why does it bother you so much they are boaties?

There a few reasons it bothers me a great deal, Dot.

They cost a great deal of money and there’s a fucking industry developing behind them. I recall reading that 5 years after they have been here a large number are still receiving welfare.

They are a perfect constituency for left side voting and I want to see that number brought down to zero.

These aren’t the same people that arrived back in the 70′s. The Viets were always a good add because those that came here were anticommie, didn’t receive much welfare as they were resourceful and were a natural constituency for the right.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:18 pm
I’m interested in the fact that so many people here worship everything that comes off the keyboard of a non-libertarian homophobic racist.

Really? There is? May a bolt of lightening strike me down if I’ve read more than three or so comments he’s ever posted here.

You really are a fucking moron, Able.

Just because he posts comments here, doesn’t mean people agree with him or even read his stuff.

Go away and get back to class.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:20 pm
The Shah of Iran used to torture lots of people too.

But the ME would be in a better state today if he’d remained in power. Iran would be a powerhouse today,

That’s very depressing to think of it that way.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 12:21 pm
RENT for the Canberra building that will house the carbon cops responsible for policing the carbon tax has jumped $1.3 million a year to cover a variety of factors, including car parking, electricity and rising rent costs.

Gab, Tim Blair has christened the building Carbon Heights.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:22 pm
Oh Come On said there were several examples of Mk schooling Les on this thread. But that’s not true. There aren’t any. It seems that neither you nor anyone else can provide an example of Mk winning an argument.

Again, more evidence that Adam Kane is rather stupid. I did not say MK “won an argument” – that would require a concession from the opposite side, and Les is more likely to vote for Tony Abbott than to concede he was wrong – no, I said there were several examples of MK schooling Les on the situation in Syria. You too, as it happens.

It’s not my fault you’re too dimwitted to realise when this is taking place.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 12:22 pm
It bothers me because they’re economic refugees. It bothers me because before Rudd/Gillard we didn’t have this flotilla of illegal immigrants. It bothers me most because they are queue-jumpers encouraged by Gillard who shrieked for years at Howard: “another boat. another policy failure”. It bothers me because GillardRudd’s softening of policies encourages people to risk their lives. It bothers me because we have no control over who comes here. It bothers me because the asylum seeker quota should be increased but the Welcome Package they receive courtesy of the benevolent taxpayer should be decreased, but it’s not. It’s an incentive. It bothers me because Australians are being treated as mugs. It bothers me because a lot, quite a lot, of these “asylum seekers” are running away from their own country instead of staying and fighting, something our troops are doing for them.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:22 pm
I think the scepticism of Libya and Egypt is unwarranted.

al Qaida are not in charge, the MB will lose the next election.

It is simply a reversal of the BDS.

You can support regime change all you like, but remember, you are basically gambling and nation building.

Supporting Israel would be the cheapest way to keep the crazies in line. I would support the removal of the Assads but I don’t think NATO has the cash to do this properly. As a libertarian, I support the “new world order” except 1. Bush didn’t really fight a “global war on terrorism” as promised and 2. As Russia is an integral part of the NWO and supports Assad – this is nearly impossible.

I would consider bribing Assad into exile and inviting an interim Government overseen by Turkey, Israel and Jordan with peacekeepers from Ireland (can’t afford it), Germany, Thailand etc.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:23 pm
That’s very depressing to think of it that way.

Lol. Able believes there’s plenty of Mohamnad Jeffersons ready to rise up in that sandpit. That’s what his geography teacher told him.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:23 pm
It bothers me because they’re economic refugees.

Why?

Should we shun foreign capital?

It bothers me because a lot, quite a lot, of these “asylum seekers” are running away from their own country instead of staying and fighting, something our troops are doing for them.

Hmmm…they are unarmed and at the same time we are under-funding our military.

Yes, Gillard is a inveterate liar and has imposed a shameful, abusive policy with Malaysia.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:25 pm
I think the Melbourne Comedy Festival would get so many more people to attend if it sacked the list of local C listers and replaced them with people reading out Mark Steyn’s articles:

The Eurovision Song Contest doesn’t get a lot of attention in the United States, but on the Continent it’s long been seen as the perfect Euro-metaphor. Years before the euro came along, it was the prototype pan-European institution, and predicated on the same assumptions. Eurovision took the national cultures that produced Mozart, Vivaldi, and Debussy, and in return gave us “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” (winner, 1969), “Ding-Ding-a-Dong” (winner, 1975), and “Diggi-Loo-Diggi-Ley” (winner, 1984). The euro took the mark, the lira, and the franc, and merged them to create the “Boom-Bang-a-Bang” of currencies.

How will it all end? One recalls the 1990 Eurovision finals in Zagreb: “Yugoslavia is very much like an orchestra,” cooed the hostess, Helga Vlahović. “The string section and the wood section all sit together.” Shortly thereafter, the wood section began ethnically cleansing the dressing rooms, while the string section rampaged through the brass section pillaging their instruments and severing their genitals. Indeed, the charming Miss Vlahović herself was forced into a sudden career shift and spent the next few years as Croatian TV’s head of “war information” programming.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 12:26 pm
Pasquale Barbaro got a 30 year minimum for importing ecstacy.

Today:

Man who murdered 12-year-old girl gets 15 years.

A MAN who murdered a 12-year-old girl and tried to kill her grandmother has been sentenced to at least 15 years imprisonment.

Renzo Da-Pra, 48, was last month found guilty of murdering his neighbour Emma Wighton, whose throat was almost severed, and causing grievous bodily harm to her grandmother, Vivienne Wighton, 77, with intent to murder her on December 18, 2009.

He was also found guilty of the manslaughter of his father, Gino Da-Pra, 77, on the grounds of substantial impairment.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
I have no issue with economic refugees. None.

Yes, Gillard is a inveterate liar and has imposed a shameful, abusive policy with Malaysia.

Oh yes, the humanity of the left. Amazing fucking dishonesty from that side. And notice how most supported this abomination or remained silent…. which is why the Fisk doctrine needs to be imposed through their own finkelstien laws.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:28 pm
…and he comes home with an effective summary of why the European “crisis” will not be resolve soon.

That’s to say, the unsustainable “bubble” is not student debt or subprime mortgages or anything else. The bubble is us, and the assumptions of entitlement. Too many citizens of advanced Western democracies live a life they have not earned, and are not willing to earn. Indeed, much of our present fiscal woe derives from two phases of human existence that are entirely the invention of the modern world. Once upon a time, you were a kid till you were 13 or so; then you worked; then you died. That bit between childhood and death has been chewed away at both ends. We invented something called “adolescence” that now extends not merely through the teenage years but through a desultory half decade of Whatever Studies at Complacency U up till you’re 26 and no longer eligible for coverage on your parents’ health-insurance policy. At the other end of the spectrum, we introduced something called “retirement” that, in the space of two generations, has led to the presumption that able-bodied citizens are entitled to spend the last couple of decades, or one-third of their adult lives, as a long holiday weekend.

The bit in between adolescence and retirement is your working life, and it’s been getting shorter and shorter. Which is unfortunate, as it has to pay for everything else. This structural deformity in the life cycle of Western man is at the root of most of our problems.

Token

4 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
Should we shun foreign capital?

lol if only that were true. Once they get here the majority stay on welfare, as the figures from the last five years have shown. Not much foreign capital being invested here by that lot.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
al Qaida are not in charge, the MB will lose the next election.

What next election, dot? If the MB get control, there won’t be anymore elections*. How many elections did Hamas hold after they won at the ballot in Gaza?

No, Egypt’s going to hell in a handbasket. Sorry, but it’s true.

*or they’ll be Iranian-style elections whereby people get to vote candidates into ineffectual offices.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
It bothers me because they’re economic refugees.

Why?

Because almost all of them are on the dole?

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:30 pm
And are thus ALP clients. There’s method in this madness. Plenty of it.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 12:32 pm
The Shah of Iran used to torture lots of people too.

But the ME would be in a better state today if he’d remained in power. Iran would be a powerhouse today,

That’s very depressing to think of it that way.

It is, but you know it is true, don’t you.

Considering both countries are both run by women hating religious zealots – does you average person in Saudi or Iran live a better life?

Token

4 Jun 12 at 12:34 pm
Because almost all of them are on the dole?

My dad arrived here in a boat.. well ship actually.. on a Friday. He had a job lined up on the following Monday and started work.

That’s an economic refugee.

I’m not saying anyone should be out there getting a job in two of three days in this modern age. However still scoring welfare after 5 years is a little of the overdoing side I think, no?

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:36 pm
Pasquale Barbaro got a 30 year minimum for importing ecstacy.

Today:

Man who murdered 12-year-old girl gets 15 years.

Drug laws create injustice.

I don’t know how manslaughter, murder and GBH doesn’t get 25+ to life. He didn’t plead guilty/

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
I got no problem with open borders. Just as long as the arrivals realise they have to hit the ground running and there are no welfare handouts available for them.

People who come to Australia seeking a better life in such circumstances are, by definition, high-initiative people who will contribute enormously to our society.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
If you want to break the ALP’s serfdom, I recommend we install sortition, sunset clauses on legislation and the power of referenda to strike down laws.

As well as scrap a heap of occupational licensing, wage regulation and reform the tax and welfare system to end welfare to work disincentives.

…and encourage the accumulation of capital. Which the MRRT and carbon tax obviously don’t do.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:39 pm
Hmmm…they are unarmed and at the same time we are under-funding our military.

We pay for our troops to fight in Afghanistan. We pay our troops to train Afghani police/military. We pay “asylum seekers” to come to Australia illegally. Our troops lay their lives on the line while mostly, mostly, young male Afghani “asylum seekers” run. Why are their women left behind? Is the journey too perilous for their women but not too dangerous for them to be left behind?

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:41 pm
OCO,

I think we are better spending money on welfare for refugees than giving money to the UN.

Restricting welfare to non citizens isn’t a bad idea though.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:41 pm
A US Traders view on the Euroweenie clusterfuck.

Supporters of Germany’s moral high ground say “why should the hard working, industrious, Germans pay for the sloth of its neighbors?”

Is it really that simple?

When the euro was created, the architects encouraged European institutions to buy the sovereign debt of all members countries, including Greece, Italy, Spain Ireland etc. The Germans knew they’d benefit because the euro would ensure that no one could undercut them via currency devaluation. They had successfully stripped Europe of its independence and locked members–and the institutions who bought sovereign debt– into a currency prison.

Aside from Greece, there aren’t any cash calls in Spain and Italy. The panic is spreading, forcing yields up, and giving the perception that everything is about to unravel. Confidence is everything. As money flees troubled states, it swarms into German banks, pushing their borrowing rates to record lows.

It’s quite nice to be a German today, no?

On top of that, the Germans refuse to monetize troubled states debt, instead forcing them into austerity. The result is a downward spiraling economy for the austerity stricken, crippled by an overvalued currency and inability to provide stimulus for their beleaguered economies. Is this simply a case of Germany taking the moral high ground, drawing a line in the sand in an effort to protect their tax payers?

Fuck no.

The Germans know what they are doing and it has nothing to do with taking the moral high ground. They are creating this crisis in order to maintain German manufacturing superiority and to finance their own mountains of debt at extraordinarily low interest rates.

How can you have a common currency with 16 other nations and fail to guarantee their debts? Is it preferable to see the entire Eurozone collapse, eliminating the idea of credit and prosperity, just so Merkel and co. and say “we took the moral high ground?”

THEY SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS SHIT BEFORE THEY ENTERED THE EURO!!!

If the euro collapses, forget about stocks even trading. How could they, if they won’t have a currency to denominate into? Markets will crash, then close. Eurozone GDP will fall by at least 25%, taking Asia and America with it. Unemployment will soar and Germany will be able to borrow money for free.

Those fuckers may finally get to win a world war.

Congrats.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:43 pm
If asylum seekers won’t accept jobs in the Pilbara, Western Queensland or the Northern Territory, they’re not economic refugees and should be sent home.

What they like to do is create comfortable ghettos in Sydney and Melbourne, get on the rock ‘n roll and elect Labor MPs and alderman who’ll keep the cash flowing.

Compare and contrast to the Italians who built the sugar industry in Queensland and the Poles who went bush for the Snowy Mountains project.

Today’s boat arrivals are economically useless leeches, most of them, and they have no respect for this country whatsoever.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:43 pm
Gab

Men have died on the front of every war. Women have been spared that luxury to a large extent since the Crimean War.

Don’t get snippy about this.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:43 pm
I don’t think you understand what I said, dot.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:44 pm
If asylum seekers won’t accept jobs in the Pilbara, Western Queensland or the Northern Territory, they’re not economic refugees and should be sent home.

They need to pay some sleazy little RTO $600 to learn how to be ticketed in a “shovel safety course” or some other wank.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:45 pm
If asylum seekers won’t accept jobs in the Pilbara, Western Queensland or the Northern Territory, they’re not economic refugees and should be sent home.

That’s an interesting thought. There’s a 1000 or so arriving every week, so it wouldn’t be hard getting them the 1,700 jobs thing the lying slapper fucked up last week.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:48 pm
Germans play the long game. They are masters of it.

I think you’ll find JC that central europe and Germany are more or less political and economic allies. Germany has obvious historical and political links to Poland. I think Poland, Hungary, Czechs, Slovakia, Austria all support Germany. Even to some extent the Swiss and Fennoscandis do as well.

The Hohenstaufens and Habsburgs rise again!

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:49 pm
Today’s boat arrivals are economically useless leeches, most of them, and they have no respect for this country whatsoever.

I don’t blame them. Look at the Gillard incentives – $90k package as a start and plus plus plus all the other benefits.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 12:49 pm
Send them to the Pilbara to do the grunt work.

No you can’t have the dole.

No you can’t pray five times a day.

No you can’t sell drugs.

No you can’t support the Canterbury Bulldogs.

Take this offer or fuck off.

C.L.

4 Jun 12 at 12:52 pm
Fifteen years? They really are callous bastards.

dover_beach

4 Jun 12 at 12:52 pm
The promise of instant welfare can’t be the honey that attracts migrants, dot. It’s a terrible idea.

Migrants need to be attracted to the promise of a level playing field, fair governance and rule of law, and limited restrictions to trade.

If you haven’t read it, I recommend Anh Do’s book “The Happiest Refugee” regarding this issue. It’s hardly a scholarly tome – more of a not enormously well-written feel-good story about multicultural Australia that some might feel a bit out of touch with the reality in some parts of western Sydney and other areas.

However, he describes his life fresh off the boat in Australia. Of course none of them spoke English. They were given clothes and helped in other material ways by Catholic nuns. They needed to work, so they borrowed money to buy a sewing machine and ran that sucker 16 hours a day. They paid it off, then bought another. They took with gusto to the concept that the harder you worked, the more money you could get, and soon they had a bunch of sewing machines all , operated by a steady flow of relatives who joined them in their enterprise. And it supported several families, got their kids into school and so on.

Oh sure, we’d call what they set up a sweatshop, but compared to what they’d come from? It was fucking paradise. Australians really are blind about such things, we and our soft flabby arses, completely unfamiliar with genuine poverty, high-mindedly taking out the bottom rungs of the ladder of development and replacing it with the welfare slippery slope.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 12:54 pm
Germans play the long game. They are masters of it.

I thought Merkel came up with a reasonable solution over the weekend. She said she would support joint issue and other stuff if the other economies begin to reform and make their economic systems more like Germany’s.

Germany isn’t exactly a free market paradise either, so it shouldn’t be be that difficult …. unless of course you’re France who has already baulked at the idea of retiring at 67.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:55 pm
No you can’t support the Canterbury Bulldogs.

Take this offer or fuck off.

I insist this also says “nor South Sydney, nor can you ever live in Surry Hills”.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:55 pm
No you can’t support the Canterbury Bulldogs.

Huh? Explain that one?

JC

4 Jun 12 at 12:56 pm
OCO,

See my comments elsewhere why I strongly dislike Rudd.

He tried to legislate philanthropy out of existence.

What a turd. Making people dependent on the State.

.

4 Jun 12 at 12:57 pm
I don’t blame them. Look at the Gillard incentives – $90k package as a start and plus plus plus all the other benefits.

Has anyone got a link for this?

John Mc

4 Jun 12 at 12:59 pm
WTF? $90,000 to get over here? This can’t be fucking serious?

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:01 pm
They needed to work, so they borrowed money to buy a sewing machine and ran that sucker 16 hours a day. They paid it off, then bought another. They took with gusto to the concept that the harder you worked, the more money you could get, and soon they had a bunch of sewing machines all , operated by a steady flow of relatives who joined them in their enterprise. And it supported several families, got their kids into school and so on.

Can’t happen any more. The textiles industry used to be almost completely run by refugees. But they never paid themselves and their family members award wages or award conditions so the Left have done everything they can to shut it down.

Adam Kane

4 Jun 12 at 1:05 pm
envirofax deathwatch.

Rabz

4 Jun 12 at 1:05 pm
Must be to pay back your people smuggler. Imagine the conversation at the dock in Pakistan

“sahib here are all my worldly goods to pay for my passage to Australia, the promised land of free everything”

“no probs, just jump on board, you can have it on tick. When you get to Oz just give me the $90,000 their stupid government gives you when you get off the boat”

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 1:07 pm
Can’t happen any more. The textiles industry used to be almost completely run by refugees. But they never paid themselves and their family members award wages or award conditions so the Left have done everything they can to shut it down.

I’m well aware of this tragedy, Adam Kane. Another successful battle fought by the left in their ongoing War On The Poor.

Oh come on

4 Jun 12 at 1:09 pm
I’ve opened a new open forum.

Sinclair Davidson

4 Jun 12 at 1:10 pm
Rabz

But Bolt is an idiot. He’s suggesting Gina should go out and dump her holdings. In today’s environment for that stock it would get it down to 30 cents or so.

Why would she want to do that? It’s a stupid idea.

Gina needs to play the longer game here as she’s the only one with the loot.

JC

4 Jun 12 at 1:10 pm
The asylum seeker mess was created by Labor in order to bring in as many Labor voters as they can. There is nothing more to it than that.

Fisky

4 Jun 12 at 1:12 pm
Welcome package is $10,000, so my mistake on the $90k. (Sorry, that was the amount we would pay for each asylum seeker refused under the Malaysia Solution.)
Plus rent is paid for, utilities connections paid for, free doctor, education, pharmaceuticals, dental, dole.

Gab

4 Jun 12 at 1:20 pm
Rabz

But Bolt is an idiot

I think he’s sending them a signal on behalf of Gina

JamesK

4 Jun 12 at 1:23 pm

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