Open Forum: June 16, 2012 at Catallaxy Files

Open Forum: June 16, 2012

957 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

June 16th, 2012 at 12:01 am

Posted in Open Forum

957 Responses to 'Open Forum: June 16, 2012'

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Bleep!

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 12:01 am
Il seconde!

Abu Chowdah

16 Jun 12 at 12:19 am
More on that assault on the rights of a woman who refused to photograph a homosexual ‘wedding.’

New Mexico Courts Stomp Religious Freedom – Order Christian Couple to Pay Gay Fine.

In its desire to prop up the same-sex-marriage agenda, though, the court has… established a shocking precedent: Not only photographers but writers, videographers, graphic designers, and a host of others who market their services can now be legitimately forced by the government to work on behalf of causes with which they disagree.

The case is ripe for hypotheticals: An atheist web programmer asked to create a megachurch’s Internet site? A Muslim graphic designer asked to create an advertisement for a hot-dog stand? According to the court’s decision, the government has the right and the responsibility to force each to participate, despite his conscience objections.

All of this was predicted by conservatives and dismissed by libertarian statists.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:30 am
Romney campaign destroys Obama’s economic address….

This is devastating:

http://youtu.be/RIL5xmSYj1o

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:32 am
The “Stimulus” is a masterpiece of spin really, when you think of what it used to be called, and how it used to be regarded..

From the first, Jack fought the Depression on his own terms and in his own way. He refused implacably to take the dole or have anything to do with “sustenance work”. “If you think I’m going to stand there holding my hand out like a flamin’ beggar you’ve got another bloody think comin’!” he would say. Or: “Catch me linin’ up for a hand out with all those bloomin’ black crows!” It was not bravado. He genuinely believed it was the “The Susso” that was the crushing evil of the times, that the very fact of living on an artificial succour would rip the spirit out of a man, that by donning the dyed black coat you gave in, and accepted the humiliation of defeat without “giving it a go”.

From “My Brother Jack” by George Johnston.

I worry about our future in the West in the 21st century..

Ooh Honey Honey

16 Jun 12 at 12:36 am
CL… that Obama speech ad is unreal.

Abu Chowdah

16 Jun 12 at 12:37 am
Don’t you just love that new Open Thread smell, and quickly and crisply it refreshes?

Alas, it never lasts long…

Token

16 Jun 12 at 12:38 am
I’m no lawyer but the Roxon action against Slipper accuser Ashby smells and looks like a shocking abuse of Commonwealth power and a dishonest attempt to conflate unrelated office politics and, more importantly – advice given by Liberals to a Liberal – with the actual allegations of sexual sleaze. In fact, what’s interesting is the absence of any attempt to portray those allegations as false.

But the SMH seems very excited.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:41 am
Unfortunately, the stimulus in the US was the facade for the worst form of crony capitalism. Seriously, with Solyndra et al falling, how many billions were pocketed?

Token

16 Jun 12 at 12:41 am
This is hilarious! On Tim Blair’s #CashForYou hashtag fail post, apparently one lone troll has submitted a dozen or more comments all under different screen names to make it look like there’s a huge army of anti-Abbott pro-Gillard peeps out there. And he’s pinged “the” (him or her) for it.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/taxes_from_us/

Go #TeamJG! lol

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 12:47 am
In fact, what’s interesting is the absence of any attempt to portray those allegations as false.

Spot on. This too shall blow up in Labor’s face.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 1:02 am
Obama finally decides to spend some time with ordinary Americans:

President Obama visits Sarah Jessica Parker’s Manhattan brownstone for elaborate fund-raiser.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 1:02 am
Spot on. This too shall blow up in Labor’s face.

They’re full on going to bat for Slipper. In the publics mind Slipper will be just as much a product of Labor as Thompson is.

And for what? A couple of piss weak immediately forgotten headlines?

twostix

16 Jun 12 at 1:06 am
Charles Krauthammer in the Wa-Po: Silly Season, 2012

Mitt Romney vs. Barack Obama is not exactly Jefferson-Adams or Lincoln-Douglas. No Harry Truman or Bill Clinton here, let alone FDR or Reagan. Indeed, it’s arguable that neither party is fielding its strongest candidate. Hillary Clinton would run far better than Obama. True, her secretaryship of state may not remotely qualify as Kissingerian or Achesonian, but she’s not Obama. She carries none of his economic baggage. She’s unsullied by the past 31 / 2 years.

Similarly, the Republican bench had several candidates stronger than Romney, but they chose not to run. Indeed, one measure of the weakness of the two finalists is this: The more each disappears from view, the better he fares.

I think the analysis was right 2 months ago but I have actually been impressed with Romney’s campaigning thus far.

And the massive MSM liberal anti-mormon campaign hasn’t yet started to any great degree.

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 1:09 am
I’m no lawyer but the Roxon action against Slipper accuser Ashby smells and looks like a shocking abuse of Commonwealth power

Such abuses are not really shocking anymore.

One day we’ll find out the real story of what has gone on during this administration and it make what we know has gone on look like nothing.

twostix

16 Jun 12 at 1:13 am
One day we’ll find out the real story of what has gone on during this administration and it make what we know has gone on look like nothing.

Why else do you think they are so frantic to cling to power, so desperate to keep Abbott out? Hypothesis: what he discovers when he gets in could put some of them behind bars, and at the very least it would – if discovered before an election – lead to a completely annihilatory result at the polls.

perturbed

16 Jun 12 at 1:24 am
Disgusting. If solar is so damn successful as the greenies and Labor want is to believe, why make the taxpayer prop it up?

SUBSIDIES for rooftop solar panels will cost consumers about $2.3 billion over the next year as the combination of a federal government solar subsidy program and state government feed-in tariffs add about $140 a year to household power bills.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
And I should add – I think we will find that much the same is true of Obama. There will be things which, if known now, would see him turfed out in such a walkover as had never been seen before and would never be seen again.

perturbed

16 Jun 12 at 1:28 am
In some USA states, being an atheist means being banned from public office.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/12/15/which-states-ban-atheists-from-holding-public-office/

John H.

16 Jun 12 at 1:40 am
In some USA states, being an atheist means being banned from public office.

No, it doesn’t.

The US Constitution trumps State laws in that regard. Sure, the States should probably take those laws off their books, since they are patently unenforceable, but it’s not really the BFD the atheist lobby is making it out to be.

As someone else pointed out, South Carolina and Alabama didn’t repeal their anti-miscegenation laws until 1998 and 2000 respectively, but that didn’t mean they could stop interracial marriages. The 1967 Supreme Court decision in Loving v. Virginia made them irrelevant.

There are a lot of now-unenforceable or irrelevant ‘laws’ on the books of any state – even in Australia I’d guess. They’re only a BFD when someone tries to make them a BFD.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 1:59 am
A feelgood story for a change – or how cartoonists can deal with the legal profession.

“I’m completely unfamiliar really with this style of responding to a legal threat — I’ve never really seen it before,” Carreon explains. “I don’t like seeing anyone referring to my mother as a sexual deviant,” he added, referencing the drawing Inman posted.

Frank

16 Jun 12 at 2:01 am
Interesting doco on the Australia Network about legalising the trade in Rhino horns. Unlike ivory, rhino horn can be safely harvested from living animals – and grows back.

Rhino breeders regularly de-horn their animals to deter poachers and are sitting on huge stockpiles of the stuff. But the black market demand is driving the price so high now that they are still worth killing just for the stump.

Yobbo

16 Jun 12 at 3:54 am
Independent economic modeling conducted by the Centre for International Economics has found that new housing already incurs a taxation burden of well over 40 per cent of its purchase price. As more taxes are placed on the residential building sector, it is Australian families who are invariably disadvantaged. HIA has estimated that the Carbon Tax will add $35 per month to the repayments on an average new home mortgage and $10,000 over the term of the loan.

Housing less affordable ;
Construction industry slower ;
Rents up ;

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 6:26 am
I was gobsmacked to see the Nation’s first law officer, attorney general ~~Nanny~~ Roxon announcing that Ashby’s claims were wrong.

If the Commonwealth is going to countersue Ashby then this should be run by the relevant Department not the politicians. The politicians should scrupulously make sure that they have no public involvement in the case.

Then again we have seen the ACT attorney general and Federal cabinet ministers lining up to publicly tell the Police how they could charge the ADFA cadet over the Skype issue and no one complained about a Ministerial level pogrom hunting down an 18 year old goose.

The Roxon intervention over the Slipper – Ashby case is a disgusting and naked attempt at interfering with the independence of the judiciary. Nothing is sacred to these ALP barbarians. They will destroy anything and everything to stay in office so that they can continue to destroy anything and everything whilst in office.

Hopefully they will be destroyed at the next election as comprehensively as their ALP cousins were in the NSW and QLD state elections.

John Comnenus

16 Jun 12 at 6:27 am
Potemkin’s Village

There’s a sucker born every minute… here

Grigory Potemkin

16 Jun 12 at 6:44 am
I noticed that Les on the earlier thread was quibbling over semantics. He thinks the pedantic parsing of details of a seminal issue; that Obama allegedly plams to use the prospect of dope legalisation as a strategy in certain key states as revealed by The Atlantic – a source one would assume Les considers credible – and not the Daily Mail.

Oh come on

16 Jun 12 at 6:48 am
Potemkins village
Good to see you here Grigory!

Daisy

16 Jun 12 at 7:16 am
Thanks Daisy. Great to be here and nice to hear from you

Grigory Potemkin

16 Jun 12 at 7:24 am
Cracker, Grigory.

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 7:25 am
LOL Grigory.

John Comnenus

16 Jun 12 at 7:37 am
As I noted earlier, activist judges will find plenty of ways to construe case law precedent as a means to push a Left wing cause, and just as many ways to impede laws that should protect the rights of Conservatives and Christians (and only Christians).

I can’t remember whether it was the Cat or Bolt where an old Ron Merkel opinion piece decried those who were worried about the scope of hate speech laws to impede on free speech.

John Comnenus

16 Jun 12 at 7:55 am
Ooh Honey Honey

It is now too late I’m afraid, but if My Brother Jack and A Fortunate Life by A B Facey had been read by all youth there might be some hope.

Roy

16 Jun 12 at 7:56 am
That’s why Judge Nicholson’s push to punish the parents of bullies should be resisted. No doubt not believing in AGW and saying so at school will become classified as bullying and punished. We need fewer laws and more freedom, not more laws and less freedom.

John Comnenus

16 Jun 12 at 7:59 am
Can we please designate Grigory the Official Cartoonist of the Cat? Cartoonist-in-Residence? Cartoonist Laureate?

I hereby nominate; who seconds?

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 8:02 am
Followed Grigory for along time and can vouch for his humorous insanity.
I second the motion.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 8:06 am
Proof read Rudi!!!

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 8:09 am
Roxon’s attack on Ashby must come very close to contempt of court in the sense prejudicing the conduct of the trial. Greater latitude is tolerated where the trial is by judge alone, but there limits. The concern must be that if Rares J now finds in favour of the Commonwealth, some may see this as a result of Roxon’s attack. That the attack is by the Attorney-General aggravates the matter, for the courts look to this officer to play a role in enforcing the law of contempt.

Roxon may respond in terms that Ashby was doing something similar earlier. The Commonwealth is supposed to act as a model litigant (although it is true this is widely regarded as a sick joke).

rafiki

16 Jun 12 at 8:43 am
Far out – I scored 100+ new Twitter followers overnight. How the effing eff did THAT happen?!

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 8:44 am
Geoffff goes to war with the local chapter of greenslime.

Not content with the the paper decided to put on display its “non-anti-Semitic but anti- Zionist” credentials by publishing this choice little editorial titbit. I reproduce it in full.

“An Australian delegation will join the international Freedom Flotilla 2, which will set sail next month to break the blockade of Gaza and end Israel’s illegal collective punishment of the people of Gaza. The Australian contingent includes Sylvia Hale, former Greens member of the NSW Parliament, Vivienne Porzsolt of Jews Against the Occupation, Alex Whisson of Australians for Palestine, and youth worker Michael Coleman. The boats will carry humanitarian aid and medical supplies. Our experience with the pro-Israel lobby suggests that the delegation will be accused of anti-semitism, along with Backburner for reporting it.”

Excuse me while I vomit.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 8:53 am
Far out – I scored 100+ new Twitter followers overnight. How the effing eff did THAT happen?!

Congrats. 100 ALP conversions?, bit by bit whittle down the remaining 30%.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 8:57 am
Sdog, after you played the media whore yesterday, is it a surprise your profile lifted;)

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:03 am
Essential reading for all conservatives – Jonah Gdberg on the old/new trick – The Myth of the Good Conservative

Local examples will quickly jump to mind… Ted, Barry, Malcolm…Joe, Tony et al, you are on notice…

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:06 am
Obama getting precious because a reporter dared to ask a question during a Presidential statement.

Mike of Marion

16 Jun 12 at 9:07 am
Corrupt former judge appointed as administrator of the HSU East Branch by Justice Flick.

KangarooCourt not frightened to put it out there. Kudos.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 9:11 am
Local examples will quickly jump to mind… Ted, Barry, Malcolm…Joe, Tony et al, you are on notice…

Wouldn’t include MT with the rest, he is true red labour.

Mr Hawke said yesterday he remembered the conversation clearly. Mr Turnbull told him: “Bob, the only thing I can do now is join the Labor Party.”

Mr Hawke said he replied by telling Mr Turnbull “he could be accommodated” and that “the Labor Party was a broad church”

The former senior ALP staffer David Britton, who founded the Labor lobbying firm HawkerBritton, said Mr Turnbull told him at the time of the referendum he was “deeply p….. off with Howard” – and that he had a “very different social agenda” to the then prime minister.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 9:44 am
Wouldn’t include MT with the rest, he is true red labour.

Sorry should have linked.

Rudiau

16 Jun 12 at 9:47 am
Off overseas for five weeks. Might check in occasionally from Blightly and La république populaire démocratique de la France.

However comments will be short as they’ll either be from the iPad or a French keyboard with the AZERTY layout.

When I get back I expect the following:
– A new government, maybe with Campbell Newman as PM
– Labor Green alliance members on trial for crimes against the Australian people
– the Carbin tax was just a joke – good one fellas. You’ll get lighter sentences due to your sense of humour.
– Shagger and Slippery Pete and in pillocks in the town square
– Gina’s taken control of Fauxfacts, and JC’s done the mass sackings. Actually wait till I get back for that.

…see to it will y’all?

papachango

16 Jun 12 at 9:55 am
Rudi, Goldberg notes the Limp left ‘Good’ conservatives, unfortunately Baz’s work on bale laws means he is as useless MT & Red Ted

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:56 am
Gina’s taken control of Fauxfacts, and JC’s done the mass sackings.

You’ll be able to hear the Leftist heads exploding from your arrière-cour if that’s the case

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 10:02 am
Token: #Unfollowed

lol

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 10:03 am
Another article on dental health in the age complete with dreadlocked dental victim…
Why is it that paying for a dental visit for preventative health is so much of a problem? People pay for everything else in their lives, food, refrigerators, Auskick lessons, I just don’t understand why it is assumed that dentistry of all things has to wait for a government handout.

rob

16 Jun 12 at 10:15 am
People pay for everything else in their lives, food, refrigerators, Auskick lessons

Indeed. Food could be argued to be a ‘basic human right’, even more so than good teeth. So why not socialised food, rationing etc? Lattes for all, except there’s not enough FairTrade coffee to go round so everyone gets instant instead.

papachango

16 Jun 12 at 10:20 am
media whore

Yes, Dog, now that you’re in the media business, everyone hates your guts as a default position.

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 10:27 am
Joe Biden: Chinese cities better than American ones.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 10:28 am
Except for a few issues like wisdom teeth growing in at odd angles and needing extraction, or broken teeth from an accident of some sort, most dental problems are self-inflicted through a lack of basic oral hygiene (often compounded by bad diet, i.e. sugary breakfast cereals, fruit straps and “sports drinks” for kiddies).

Nobody is so poor that they can’t afford a toothbrush, some toothpaste and a coil of dental floss. And cleaning your teeth regularly – and making sure your children do too – is not rocket science. Just a tiny dose of self-discipline (and self-respect).

While ever we have people who need regular blood tests through no fault of their own being forced to fork out for their own path labs, and older people with cataracts also through no fault of their own being placed on 2-year waiting lists, and cancer patients waiting 6 weeks or more to get a “slot” for life-saving radiotherapy, the government has no business throwing billions at removing the moral hazard for lazy dimwits who can’t be bothered brushing their own fucking teeth.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 10:32 am
Dentists seem to be better at running businesses than doctors from day 1, and they won’t allow any Denticare system to be created, a fact that the pollies are determined to ignore.

rob

16 Jun 12 at 10:33 am
Chinese abortion scandal…

Andrew Bolt points out that the Gillard ‘government’ has just given the country’s highest honour to a man who fully supports the killing of babies.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 10:39 am
US media react to that Daily Caller reporter interrupting Obama with a question in the Rose Garden…

Headlines at DRUDGE:

WH press corps ‘startled’…
MSNBC: Would a white president get heckled?
CORRESPONDENTS’ ASSOCIATION SCOLDS…

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 10:41 am
Essential reading for all conservatives – Jonah Gdberg on the old/new trick – The Myth of the Good Conservative

Token, funnily, I mentioned this same trope to Sinc and JC yesterday over lunch.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 10:44 am
Politico calls Rose Garden questions “heckling.”

While it’s not unusual for Obama to be interrupted by occasional hecklers at big public events, the fact that a reporter brought Obama’s speech to a halt startled members of the White House press corps.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 10:44 am
Andrew Bolt points out that the Gillard ‘government’ has just given the country’s highest honour to a man who fully supports the killing of babies.

That’s not a person, CL. Move along.

BTW, have a look at the unpixelated photo and tell me what has been done isn’t monstrous.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 10:50 am
Yes, Dog, now that you’re in the media business…

LOL. As if!

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 10:59 am
It’s the new PoMo morality, along with prostitution being just another job. No wucken furries.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:59 am
BTW, have a look at the unpixelated photo and tell me what has been done isn’t monstrous.

I dunno how the husband could take that. I would rip the docs insides out with my bare hands for doing that to the woman.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:02 am
Will Ashby become Abbott’s Godwin Gretch?
Slipper’s staffers leaked claims to hurt him

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 11:02 am
CL: Here was my reaction to that. Also this.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 11:02 am
You can’t keep a good blogger down… even for a nine year old.

Martha Payne, from Argyll, got more than two million hits on her NeverSeconds blog in just a few weeks.

Argyll and Bute Council said press coverage of the blog had led catering staff to fear for their jobs.

But council leader Roddy McCuish later told the BBC that he had instructed senior officials to lift the ban immediately.

She’s raised quite a bit of money for charity too… what a top kid!

Fleeced

16 Jun 12 at 11:03 am
Emily’s list women support any abortion even full term of healthy babies. how disgusting is that.

candy

16 Jun 12 at 11:03 am
Slipper’s staffers leaked claims to hurt him

So he’s not actually saying the claims are untrue then? Just complaining that his staff tattletaled?

Fleeced

16 Jun 12 at 11:05 am
So while sdog, Irving and I were working hard, heaping scorn & humiliation on Labor’s latest pap PR campaign, one tweet at a time, the Cat old boys were living it up with brandy and cigars…LOL

I’ve noted before I’ve listened to Jonah Goldberg talk about his new book which pulls apart the tricks and canards. It sounds like a cracker, easy to bring to Oz perspective.

Keep an eye out as we have some more material for your next brandy & cigar session.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 11:09 am
Staffers “leaked information to politicians, media”

Wikileaks good; Laborleaks bad. Amirite?

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 11:10 am
So while sdog, Irving and I were working hard, heaping scorn & humiliation on Labor’s latest pap PR campaign, one tweet at a time, the Cat old boys were living it up with brandy and cigars…

Yes, but at least we have our 6-figure cheques from the Koch brothers, the toba to console us.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 11:12 am
Ah, SteveC is back.

Steve, can you tell us by how much Gillard’s carbon tax is going to reduce the increase in global temperatures due to anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions?

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 11:13 am
Yes, but at least we have our 6-figure cheques from the Koch brothers, the tobacco industry and Big Oil to console us.

Sorry, accidentally hit “submit” too soon. Damned iPad.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 11:14 am
Token: these are the latest two books on my Kindle:

The Tyranny of Cliches: How Liberals Cheat in the War of Ideas

Rules for Radicals Defeated: A Practical Guide for Defeating Alinsky Tactics

“Punch back twice as hard.”

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 11:19 am
Emily’s list women support any abortion even full term of healthy babies. how disgusting is that.

Should have applied to them, Candy. The world would have been better off.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:24 am
Dandy, you may have missed that discussion on the relevant thread, “How is that modelling working II”

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 11:25 am
Also, for all those following what is happening at Fairfacked, the last couple of paras of Terry McCrann’s column in today’s Aus are well worth reading.

Just a matter of time now, until the natural consequences of years of unrestricted hippydom come crashing down on the SMH and the Age.

JC – please put Nitwit Gittins and his useless protege Irvine at the top of your ‘mass sackings’ list.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 11:27 am
Steve, your answer to my question mentioned the reduction in national carbon emissions to 5% below 2000 levels. It didn’t mention global temperature.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 11:28 am
JC – please put Nitwit Gittins and his useless protege Irvine at the top of your ‘mass sackings’ list.

They’re both getting firemen hosed outta there, Dandy. It’s something new I’ve got at the development stages with the producer and Gina.

Gina and I walk in a huge fucking hose in the newsroom. We’re of course wearing our firemen attire and we point it on say Gittins, Farrelly, Cubby or Jessica. We turn on the hose while screaming out “you’re fired” as they get washed outta there onto the street.

The producer reckons it’s a huge idea. Huge!

We’re trying to figure how we get around occupational health and safety.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:32 am
Firehosing sounds good, JC – but just a little tweak: Do it from the top floor, and send them flying out the window.

Fleeced

16 Jun 12 at 11:34 am
Very dramatic this firehosing idea, JC. Good visuals, but to ensure it’s a ratings winner, as your Head of Wardrobe, I suggest the firemen be appropriately attired. Something like this?

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:38 am
Great JC! Can’t happen soon enough!

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 11:39 am
What’s Mccrann getting at with that last comment on the Times and Fairfax?

rob

16 Jun 12 at 11:40 am
Why not, Fleeced? We could have those huge airbeds at the bottom surrounding the building adding a little drama to the show.

Imagine the suspense. Gina and I hose say Gittins out of the window of the top floor and we go to commercial just at that point. The viewers will go crazy with suspense.

We then come back from commercials and show Gittins falling into the air mattress physically unhurt but feeling a little sorry for himself. You need to be creative, dude and not allow small details to get in the way of the big picture.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:41 am
The producer thinks we can’t point it on any of the gals wearing a dress for obvious reasons. Let hope they’re coming wearing pants suits or jeans.

[OTT. Sinc]

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:45 am
Rob – essentially, he’s saying that Fairfax is in play, and that the company may be considering stopping printing some of its titles.

I couldn’t get through the firewall a second time, so this is from memory.

How are you going with that answer, SteveC?

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 12:04 pm
I couldn’t get through the firewall a second time

Clear browser cache; delete cookies. There ya go.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 12:07 pm
Okay, now it’s 157 new followers since last night. And a lot are Poms and Yanks, not Aussies. Something weird is going on.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
Sent out on twitter

Julia Gillard: any chance of starting a race riot from your office next week. There’s always the London option if caught…

JC

16 Jun 12 at 12:14 pm
Re Slipper, anyone disturbed by this?

Ms Roxon said Commonwealth lawyers had obtained ”a vast amount of material”, including text messages and phone records, which are contained in an affidavit filed with the court.

So the government is bugging Liberals.

Love media: ‘hey, look over there – MURDOCH!’

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:40 pm
Isn’t Roxon doing exactly what she is accusing the Libs of doing? Leaking? Running a campaign to discredit Ashby et al?

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 12:45 pm
CL, I would assume it was normal legal discovery process. Remember Ashby did sue the Commonwealth so they are exercising their normal rights as a defendant.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 12:47 pm
LOL. The Labor Party is the real respondent – not “the Commonwealth.”

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:48 pm
I see, SteveC.

Yet another carbon tax supporter refuses to answer the question of what effect the tax, of which Steve is so proud, will have on global warning.

Julia would be so proud, Steve.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 12:50 pm
Mark Steyn makes an excellent point. I’ve always thought this American custom was bizarre and ridiculous:

I’m with Kevin and the president in preferring “Mr. Romney” over “Governor Romney.” The primary debates were all “Governor”, “Senator” and “Mr. Speaker”, even though there wasn’t a single governor, senator, or speaker on the stage. What’s the point of a republic if a guy can serve one term in the House of Representatives in the early Seventies and be addressed as “Congressman” until he keels over half-a-century later? Turning offices into titles of nobility is, to my mind, even more unrepublican than having a bunch of marquesses and viscounts queening it up because “Senator”, “Governor” et al. are titles that by definition are in the gift of the people and, when the people are no longer willing to bestow said title or the office-holder declines to submit himself to their adjudication, the use thereof should cease.

Lest I be accused of being anti-American in respect of the above, I may add that, as a subject of Her Canadian Majesty, I think “Mr.” and “Mrs.” can be pretty cool in monarchies, too. Just about the only advice I ever had the temerity to offer Mrs. Thatcher was not to accept a peerage, because “Mrs. Thatcher” was a far greater title than anything the Sovereign could bestow. I still think I was right on that, and can never quite bring myself to say “Lady Thatcher.” In fact, the only guy who makes it work is Larry King, who liked to introduce her on CNN as “Margaret the Lady Thatcher”, which makes her sound like she’s running the south side numbers racket with Sammy “The Bull” Gravano.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:51 pm
Ahahahahaha.

Slippergate like Watergate: Albanese.

He sticks up for Nixon. Or the Plumbers? WTF?

Mr Albanese likened the case on Saturday to the Watergate scandal, in which evidence about President Nixon’s administration was passed to journalists and subsequently appeared in the Washington Post.

“What occurred during Watergate was that people attempted to obtain information in a way that wasn’t legal and wasn’t appropriate,” he told reporters in Sydney.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:56 pm
“What occurred during Watergate was that people attempted to obtain information in a way that wasn’t legal and wasn’t appropriate,” he told reporters in Sydney.

Albanese said this two days after the prime minister’s chief political strategist resigned for running a secret dirt unit.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 12:58 pm
Hahahahaha, the lefty femo-nazi’s can’t help putting their hands back into the same fire:

1% Wives Are Helping Kill Feminism and Make the War on Women Possible

Being a mother isn’t a real job — and the men who run the world know it.

…Hilary Rosen would not have been so quick to be so super sorry for saying that Ann Romney has never worked a day in her life if we weren’t all made more than a wee bit nervous by our own biases, which is that being a mother isn’t really work. Yes, of course, it’s something — actually, it’s something almost every woman at some time does, some brilliantly and some brutishly and most in the boring middle of making okay meals and decent kid conversation. But let’s face it: It is not a selective position.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 1:01 pm
He’s a government staffer, Dandy, so JG wouldn’t be “proud”. He’s being paid to do a job.

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 1:02 pm
Ms Roxon said ‘there are a large numbers of Queensland LNP identities which are going to be brought up in the course of these hearings and Mr Brough is one of those’

that sounds like 10 or 20 or does she mean 3. i don’t understand what she’s geting at there.

candy

16 Jun 12 at 1:02 pm
Ahahahahaha.

Slippergate like Watergate: Albanese.

He sticks up for Nixon. Or the Plumbers? WTF?

OMG, Albo is stupid enough to say that. Hahahaha.

His understanding of history is as bad as his teeth.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 1:03 pm
After refusing the Libs’ nine nominations for Speaker, after dumping a perfectly reputable Speaker, after pointing the bone at the Libs over Slipper’s “expenses”, I’m so glad Gillard decided Slipper was the best choice for the Labor party as Speaker. Roxon’s trial by media, her abuse of the position to which she has been floated, this current campaign of distraction, all of this will backfire. Unknowingly, they’ve hoisted their own petard.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 1:04 pm
But let’s face it: It is not a selective position.

And yet, it’s up there with the most important work done in our society. Go figure.

John Mc

16 Jun 12 at 1:04 pm
Dandy, the objective of limiting global CO2 concentration to 450ppm is to limit the increase in global mean temperature to 2 degrees Celcius. Australia’s carbon pricing scheme is designed to achieve Australia’s target, as part of the Kyoto agreement, to reduce our emissions by 80% below 2000 levels by 2050.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 1:06 pm
Thanks for that Steve.

The obvious follow-up question is: what effect will our contribution to this goal have on global temperature?

I mean, that’s the ultimate purpose, yes?

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 1:16 pm
SteveC, that’s nice but how about answer Dandys question.

Here it is,

Steve, can you tell us by how much Gillard’s carbon tax is going to reduce the increase in global temperatures due to anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions?

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 1:19 pm
Remember all that talk about how everyone should SHUT UP about Craig Thompson because it’s all in the hands of the authorities?

The Federal Opposition has criticised Ms Roxon for commenting in the media about the case, accusing her of trying to intervene in Mr Slipper’s case.

“That looked to me that they were trying to put pressure on the court and I think they should desist from that,” Liberal Senator Arthur Sinodinos said.

“I’m not making comment on the case because it is now before the court and I think the Government should do the same.

“The Attorney-General’s press conference yesterday afternoon on this I thought was very strange in that context. I thought it was opportunistic and I think they should desist.”

But senior Labor frontbencher Anthony Albanese supports the public airing of the latest developments.

Mr Albanese says people should make up heir own minds about the alleged involvement of senior Liberal figures in the case.

“I think it’s in everyone’s interest given the way that the allegations were made so publicly, that there be full transparency in this and that all the information be out there in full public view so people can make their own decisions about exactly what the involvement was,” he said.

Roxon says Slipper case politically motivated.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 1:21 pm
Remember all that talk about how everyone should SHUT UP about Craig Thompson because it’s all in the hands of the authorities?

There is one rule for them and a different one for the rest of us.

Just watch Labor’s Love Media lap this one up.

johno

16 Jun 12 at 1:26 pm
Even the Google algorithm is conspiring against Faux-cahontis Warren’s senate bid.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 1:27 pm
Dandy,
quite correct, if Australia acted alone, then our contribution would effetctively be zilch. But we are not acting alone, and as I said on the other thread, I expect large emitters like USA and China will make significant contributions over the next decade.

The “my contribution is too small to bother” argument doesn’t wash with me. You could apply that logic to almost anything. My contribution to MSF doesn’t count for much, but added to all the other contributions it adds up to a lot.

My single vote doesn’t count for much, but at least it will counteract one vote from a Climate change skeptic on this blog.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 1:27 pm
This man is only one heart-beat away from being the next post-racial president.

Biden Mocks LA Mayor Villaraigosa’s Name

Token

16 Jun 12 at 1:28 pm
..our contribution would effetctively be zilch…

Thank you.

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 1:37 pm
If Roxon had a son, he’d look like Slipper.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 1:38 pm
I expect large emitters like USA and China will make significant contributions over the next decade.

Do you also expect ambrosia to squirt from your bottom and your poop to be a collectors item?

Infidel Tiger

16 Jun 12 at 1:40 pm
SteveC,

The idea that we can get a nice climate – for everyone between Lapland and Dunedin – by tweaking some sort of CO2 adjustment knob is completely absurd, for anyone over ten.

For starters, the positive feedbacks you people have simply assumed into being will still be unproven, at best, and fraudulent at worst.

Then there will still be the CO2 sources over which we do not have any control. Like 97 per cent’s worth.

Then there will still be the far more powerful greenhouse effect of H2O vapour. Good luck tweaking (or taxing) that.

There will still be a giant ball of fire in the celestial neighbourhood, belting out both heat, and magnetic rays to affect cloud formation on earth.

Lastly, the Late Ordovician Ice age will still have occurred, with CO2 levels about 20 times what they currently are. (Hint: the geological time scale is a bit of a problem for you guys.)

You can take your florid psychosis back to the next GetUp meeting.

James in Melbourne

16 Jun 12 at 1:40 pm
Thanks James, I’ll stick to getting my science from reliable sources. Like the Australian Academy of Science, rather than a blog

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 1:44 pm
LOL

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 1:45 pm
Since when did the AAS go back into the science business? I thought it had decided there was more money in political brown-nosing … sorry, lobbying.

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 1:49 pm
Obama to Celebs ‘You’re the Ultimate Arbiter of Which Direction This Country Goes’.

Obama spoke these creepy words at a $40,000-per-plate fundraiser that raked in a total of $2 million and took place in Sarah Jessica Parker’s home. Obama spoke these creepy words to the most out-of-touch crowd in the history of out-of-touch crowds. I know people who are out-of-touch who would look at this crowd and say, “Boy, are these people out-of-touch.”

—————————————-

Somebody mentioned here the other day the strange parallelism between Gillard and Obama. In the same week, Obama’s ‘major economic address’ a disaster; Gillard’s ‘economic forum’ a disaster. So no, yeah.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 1:49 pm
if Australia acted alone, then our contribution would effetctively be zilch.

Yes it would. And if we acted in concert with every other nation, then our contribution would still effectively be zilch.

The bottom line is that the CO2 tax is an utter waste of money. It will not alter the climate by any measurable amount.

I expect large emitters like USA and China will make significant contributions over the next decade.

In which case you are a gullible fool. Check out this graph and tell me at which point China will begin lowering emissions.

My single vote doesn’t count for much, but at least it will counteract one vote from a Climate change skeptic on this blog.

Correct. However your vote, while being small when measured against total votes, is still a measurable quantity. The effect of the CO2 tax on global temperature is not. It is an absolute waste of money and effort.

jupes

16 Jun 12 at 1:52 pm
SteveC

I can’t be bother to count them, but maybe you would.
From the list of AAS fellows, what percentage of them are ” climate scientists”?

Oh, and name them, just so we can verify.

Thanks in advance.
Jumpy.

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 2:01 pm
Tightrop walking Niagara was impressive, sure.

But nothing tops Phillipe Petit illegally walking between the Twin Towers, 1974. Greatest stunt ever, “artistic crime of the century”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpQCUXNo5GI&feature=fvwrel

He walked the wire for 45 minutes, making eight crossings between the towers, a quarter of a mile above the sidewalks of Manhattan. In addition to walking, he sat on the wire, gave knee salutes and, while lying on the wire, spoke with a gull circling above his head.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 2:02 pm
He’s got nothin’ on the ping-pong baby, CL.

sdog

16 Jun 12 at 2:08 pm
Ping-pong baby was the greatest entertainment-for-others link posted in the history of the Australian internet.

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 2:10 pm
Ping-pong baby was..

ho-hum.

Happy Dog was the greatest link posted evah.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 2:16 pm
Effectively zilch. Thankyou.

It’s not that ‘my contribution is too small to bother’.

It’s that these measures impose real costs on the economy.

What cheeses me off, and many others who follow Catallaxy, is that these costs are being imposed for no benefit at all. At all.

Moreover, we also believe that, if global warming is occurring, then the best response is to grow the economy as fast as possible, carbon dioxide emissions notwithstanding, in order to generate the resources to adapt to a warmer world – or indeed any climate change which might occur, warming or cooling.

I also expect China and the US to make buggerall contribution over the next decade. They ‘got the joke’, mate. Julia and friends didn’t. And their obtuseness is going to cost us a lot.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 2:18 pm
these costs are being imposed for no benefit at all.

Not true. Think of the (ha ha) budget surplus.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 2:19 pm
Why would you expect China And the USA to do anything?

Tiny Dancer

16 Jun 12 at 2:25 pm
I expect large emitters like USA and China will make significant contributions over the next decade.

Don’t feel too disappointed Dandy. What do you expect from a child who lives with this delusions?

This is the same week we see the shocking and real images of Chinese official forcing a late term abortion upon a woman. Keep in mind we only saw it because the husband somehow got it broadcast on the internet, a miracle which will not be repeated.

Yet our unicorn loving lefty believes the same regime will be “doing the right thing” on glow-ball warming.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 2:27 pm
Do you also expect ambrosia to squirt from your bottom and your poop to be a collectors item?

IT, you magnificent bastard.

But nothing tops Phillipe Petit illegally walking between the Twin Towers, 1974.

The doco for that was brilliant. You can’t help gasping in awe having seen such a thing. It reminds me of that moment in The Shawshank Redemption when the inmates are stopped in their tracks by the voice of a soprano playing over the sound system.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 2:46 pm
Token, you might have that the wrong way around. Which is what happens if you rely on Tea Party commentators for your information.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa appeared to make fun of Vice President Joe Biden Friday before the vice president’s speech at the U.S. Conference of Mayors meeting in Orlando, Fla.

“Villaraigosa, can you pronounce it? That’s what he’s telling me here,” Biden said when he reached the podium, pointing at the mayor.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 2:48 pm
Thanks Token.

Am not disappointed. Just interested in what the hell goes on in these people’s minds.

Yes Gab, ok, I forgot. The surplus that will never appear.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 2:48 pm
What would you expect from poxon ,another bloody Ambulance Chaser
Like the bitch jooLiAR giLIARd .Get rid of this corrupt Pack of Liars .
Jail the Bastards.

Borisgodunov

16 Jun 12 at 2:52 pm
based on the above contributions, I’ve decided Jumpy’s vote is the one I will cancel out.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 2:53 pm
If steve from brisbane is around maybe you could choose another vote to cancel.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 2:54 pm
Somebody mentioned here the other day the strange parallelism between Gillard and Obama.

The tracking has been evident for a while:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-campaign-for-class-resentment/2011/12/08/gIQApYDagO_story.html

Ivan Denisovich

16 Jun 12 at 2:58 pm
based on the above contributions, I’ve decided Jumpy’s vote is the one I will cancel out.

Excellent, Now you and yours only need to come up with about 4 million more.

(oh, and what moniker did you go by on LP. i’ve got it to 3 possibilities but i don’t want to insult 2 of them by guessing?)

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 3:01 pm
I don’t think I did, what’s LP?

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 3:03 pm
Jumpy, did you actually want an answer? You can use CTRL-F to do amazing things with a web page. You should try it.

I stopped after a few minutes:

Professor Patrick De-Deckker
Mawson Medal awarded by the Australian Academy of Science in May 2010 for outstanding contribution to Earth Science in Australia

Budd, William Francis, PhD, FAA
Professor Emeritus, University of Tasmania.
Honorary Professor, Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies.
Speciality: Antarctic research and global climate.
Year of election: 1993

Chappell, John Michael Arthur, PhD, FAA
Honorary Professor, Research School of Earth Sciences, Australian National University.
Speciality: Long-term dynamics of landscape, coasts, coral reefs and climate.
Year of election: 1992

Farquhar, Graham Douglas, PhD, Dr hc (Antwerpen), FAA, FRS
Distinguished Professor and Head, Environmental Biology Group, Research School of Biology, Australian National University.
Website: http://www.rsbs.anu.edu.au/Profiles/Graham_Farquhar
Speciality: Plant physiology; growth in relation to water use; stable isotopes of carbon dioxide; climate change.
Year of election: 1988

Frederiksen, Jorgen Segerlund, PhD, DSc, FAA, FAIP
Chief Research Scientist, CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research.
Website: http://www.csiro.au/people/Jorgen.Frederiksen.html
Speciality: Atmospheric and climate dynamics; climate change; turbulence; complex systems.
Year of election: 2005

McDougall, Trevor John, PhD, FAA
CSIRO Fellow, CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research.
Speciality: Oceanic mixing and thermodynamics; ocean’s role in climate change.
Year of election: 1997

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 3:12 pm
SteveC, your credibility is totally trashed, nobody here wants to read any more of what you have to say, apart form a few other Steves, so your continued presence simply confirms my thesis that you guys are in the wrecking ball business.

blogstrop

16 Jun 12 at 3:14 pm
what’s LP?

OK then, fair enough (wink/nod) you weren’t there.

But given Jupes graph, what difference will the tax make if we implement it?

Except for removing one little competitor of theirs and moving us to a lower standard of living.

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 3:19 pm
True blogstrop, I shall refrain from feeding it.

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 3:23 pm
The Steves aren’t going away, Strop. They’re paid spoilers trolling the strongest conservative blog in the country in the delusion that it will make more than .0000001% difference to next year’s annihilation. Zombie trolls are the carbon dioxide of the political system.

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 3:26 pm
Maybe I should be on LP as well. What is it?

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 3:32 pm
Happy Dog was the greatest link posted evah.

I prefer the classics, like charlie or Star Wars kid.

Fleeced

16 Jun 12 at 3:39 pm
sdog – you also got a link via T Blair, who certainly has wide readership.

pete m

16 Jun 12 at 3:42 pm
SteveC – LP went the way that Fairfacked’s SMH and Age are about to tread.

Sic transit gloria hippy publications.

Dandy Warhol

16 Jun 12 at 3:48 pm
SteveC

quite correct, if Australia acted alone,
then our contribution would effetctively be zilch. But we are not acting alone

Yes we are.

daddy dave

16 Jun 12 at 3:58 pm
A leading judge made an impassioned defence of the state’s right to keep people alive against their wishes as he ruled that a former medical student suffering from severe anorexia should be force-fed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9335222/Woman-who-wants-to-die-must-be-force-fed.html

Viva

16 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
Euthanasia should be persons right to choose. Need lots of safeguards, but it’s her life.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 4:14 pm
She doesn’t want to be euthanised.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
Seriously, it’s all these fucking lefties talk about. Glimate fucking change is like a religion to them.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 4:19 pm
Seriously, it’s all these fucking lefties talk about.

Except for SteveC who, it appears, comments on every fucking topic posted.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 4:20 pm
Brett Stevens explains why the left are like “angry small children”.

http://www.amerika.org/politics/personal/?doing_wp_cron=1339698109.7819750308990478515625

Viva

16 Jun 12 at 4:27 pm
re climate change Dandy warhol asked a specific question to me, on this thread (Owhich he carried over from the specific thread,so I answered it. Which is only polite. And surprise surprise I have thoughts on other topics as well. It’s pretty funny you think the only people who disagree with you are “paid lefty trolls”. I did mention once before – “troll” does not mean “disagree”.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 5:17 pm
Except for SteveC who, it appears, comments on every fucking topic posted.

unlike Gab, of course

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 5:18 pm
She doesn’t want to be euthanised

Fair enough – assisted suicide then. Either way, she wants to be allowed to die. And she should be allowed to do so.

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 5:23 pm
Stevc. How do you know what the yanks and the Chinese are going to do? Are you that smart or just full of luvvie shit?

Tiny Dancer

16 Jun 12 at 5:31 pm
unlike Gab, of course

Exactly. At last we agree on something.

She doesn’t want to be euthanised

Fair enough – assisted suicide then.

One and the same thing.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 5:35 pm
It was gutsy for Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein to come out against Washington’s recent rash of dangerous intelligence leaks last week; she made criticism of the leaks bipartisan. Flanked by the House Intelligence Committee’s ranking Democrat, Dutch Ruppersberger, and GOP committee leaders, Feinstein declared: “This has to stop. When people say they don’t want to work with the United States, because they can’t trust us to keep a secret, that’s serious.”

Wow, another echo between Gillard & Obama.

I saw you some discussion on this earlier in the week, but seriously, the Sun King is in trouble. Based upon a very reliable source it is said a cabinet member in his White House has been leaking National Security information…

…which he directly denied in the famous “Private Sector is Doing Fine” press conference.

This investigation will stretch into his 2nd term, and if Holder falls the Republicans could get an independent special prosecutor.

Two recent New York Times stories hyped President Barack Obama’s “will,” “pragmatism over ideology” and hands-on role in drone strikes over Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia. Those stories also revealed telling details about a computer worm that targeted Iranian nuclear centrifuges and the process used to cull the “kill list.”

Former CIA spokesman Bill Harlow told me the two Times stories “left a trail that Helen Keller could follow,” one that leads to “a small universe of people.” National security adviser Thomas E. Donilon talked on the record, while other officials spoke on condition of anonymity.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 5:36 pm
Fair enough – assisted suicide then.

Not that either.

Either way, she wants to be allowed to die. And she should be allowed to do so.

But it seems she lacks the capacity to make such a decision, according to the presiding judge.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 5:37 pm
Anyone hear Christine Nixon bleating that Joan Kirner should get a government pension on the ALPBC this morning?

It’s not enough that Kirner and Cain bankrupted Victoria – it seems she can’t even run her own finances either. Nixon was going on about all the public good Kirner has done – you would have thought Bracks and Brumby could have thrown a few QANGOs her way if she was a bit short. Maybe the next Labor government can come up with something unless Red Ted starts to get his act together.

H B Bear

16 Jun 12 at 5:39 pm
H.B.

Maybe Kirner should ask CanDo for it.
Bligh grovelled for a few extras and was met with glorious “relentless negativity “

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 5:49 pm
there is a phrase for that HB

Fuck em all

dan

16 Jun 12 at 6:07 pm
d-b,
yes it does say that too. I don’t know how that coexists with the earlier statements. The problems with only having a newpaper report I guess

The judge said it was the first time he had dealt with a case in which providing life-sustaining treatment might not be in the “best interest” of a patient who was “fully aware” of their condition.

She twice signed forms last year saying she did not want to be given treatment to keep her alive. She told the judge through a senior barrister that she felt her life was “pure torment” and that all her efforts to recover had failed. She now wants a “peaceful death”.

“life-sustaining treatment not being in the best interests of a person who, while lacking capacity, is fully aware of her situation,” the judge said

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 6:12 pm
I prefer the classics, like charlie or Star Wars kid.

And this is easily the best of the Charlie bit me remakes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rkhbvm5YOo

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 6:14 pm
Fair enough – assisted suicide then. Either way, she wants to be allowed to die. And she should be allowed to do so.

This is where euthanasia will lead – requiring medical professionals to aid mentally ill people to kill themselves.

Matt

16 Jun 12 at 6:26 pm
Those people who support assisted euthanasia must surely believe medical professionals who revive or prevent the deaths of people who attempt suicide are acting unethically.

After all, the patient wants to die – and should be allowed to, no?

Matt

16 Jun 12 at 6:30 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Coercion is the practice of… here

Grigory Potemkin

16 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
“Seriously, it’s all these fucking lefties talk about. Glimate fucking change is ~~like~~ a religion to them”

TIFIFY

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 6:36 pm
Grigory: http://caribflyer.com/carib/wp-content/uploads/thumbs-up.png

C.L.

16 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
Listening to SBS – PBS Newshour this Saturday afternoon – Commentators are beside themselves with glee that MITT Romney has been sidelied by Obama over Obama’s announcement that illegal immigrant youngsters won’t be deported but allowed to stay.

Reckon that Romney has been trumped.

Mike of Marion

16 Jun 12 at 6:50 pm
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Now THAT’S an invitation.

Jumpnmcar

16 Jun 12 at 7:04 pm
Reckon that Romney has been trumped.

What?!!

And the Constitution and legislative branches haven’t?

This will be a huge loser for Obummer.

He’s shat on the Constitution often but this is too egregious.

Besides unemployment is effectively 16% plus.

It’s not the right environment to play holier than thou.

I predict it will be yet another deadweight around Obummer’s neck.

The DREAM act by decree.

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 7:14 pm
Reckon that Romney has been trumped.

In your dreams chuckles

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jun 12 at 7:25 pm
After all, the patient wants to die – and should be allowed to, no?

Matt – that is an interesting point, in all the years i spent in military medicine such a point of view was never considered.

My thought is that i was taught to preserve life not to hasten its end.

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jun 12 at 7:30 pm
I scored 100+ new Twitter followers overnight.

157 and counting – sdogue, twatter grand master!

JC – wielding the fire hose with extreme prejudice!

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 7:52 pm
Those people who support assisted euthanasia must surely believe medical professionals who revive or prevent the deaths of people who attempt suicide are acting unethically.

Is it tenuous link week at the Cat?

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 8:00 pm
Is it tenuous link week at the Cat?

Got an actual counter argument?

Matt

16 Jun 12 at 8:11 pm
I opened a twitter account seems like a coupla years ago, never posted anything but got 3 followers. I get these occasional messages to my email address saying people are following me, but for what, since I’ve never posted anything. Multiply that by the number of shills and spammers inhabiting the site and you can easily get hundreds.

coz

16 Jun 12 at 8:11 pm
Obama, 28 March 2011. White House Press Release

“With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed—and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.”

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 8:15 pm
You’re comparing suicide victims with terminally ill people.

What makes you think that a dying person is not able to make a rational decision? Suicides are generally not thinking rationally.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 8:17 pm
All day, hiding from the Sun…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 8:19 pm
“Romney Trumped”. By an obvious attempt to steal the election by creatIng about a million potential Democrat voters?

Yeah, in your dreams Maid Marion.

This will have conservatives turning out in droves. Not to mention a big thumbs down from 90% of the American public. Illegal immigration I discovered whilst in the US recently is a bipartisan issue in that people from all sides hate that there is downright anarchy on the borders.

Alex Pundit

16 Jun 12 at 8:24 pm
I’m almost ashamed to admit it, but before Polka Dot Joan I was a committed ALP voter; every election, good as gold – Labor – just as my family had done for 60 or more years.

Joan finished me, and I’ve never gone back.

I wonder how many of the current crop of natural Labor voters Gillard will finish off, for good?

James P

16 Jun 12 at 8:36 pm
SCOTUS will rule on Obamacare in the next few days – rumour is it might even go 8-1 against – so the Consitutional Lawyer, become Sun King, is going to need one hell of a sh*t fight underway to keep people distracted from that abject humiliation.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 8:36 pm
‘Romney trumped’ Mike?

I think you better wait for the rest of the cards to fall. Or would you care to bet on how long it takes for that Obama quote I posted to find its way onto a Romney commercial?

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 8:36 pm
Suicides are generally not thinking rationally.

No suicidal people think that taking their own life is a rational decision, a solution to a problem that makes sense.

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jun 12 at 8:41 pm
In some USA states, being an atheist means being banned from public office.

“No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

The Constitution is very clear on this point, so clear that even near-sighted Lefties could read it.

But then again, so is the Second Amendment…

alexnoaholdmate

16 Jun 12 at 8:44 pm
Jumpnmcar

That ‘invitation’ was inscribed by the French on a statue they gave to the United States.
Ellis Island, where some of my ancestors spent weeks trying to get through the paperwork to be legally admitted, lies in its shadow. As does the courthouse where, after they had learned english and passed a written exam regarding U.S. history and government, they were sworn in as natualized citizens.

The differences between that and the current situation are anything but subtle.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
Jumpnmcar

That ‘invitation’ was inscribed by the French on a statue they gave to the United States.
Ellis Island, where some of my ancestors spent weeks trying to get through the paperwork to be legally admitted, lies in its shadow. As does the courthouse where, after they had learned english and passed a written exam regarding U.S. history and government, they were sworn in as natualized citizens.

The differences between that and the current situation are anything but subtle.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
even near-sighted Lefties could read it.

That would have to be some serious coke bottle glasses.

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jun 12 at 8:51 pm
bugger.. blackberry double post

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 8:51 pm
It is indeed sad to see a former Premier of Victoria in such dire straits in her declining years. But in an act of public relations mastery reminiscent of her astute management of the affairs of state all those years ago, her enlistment of Christine Nixon will glean alms no doubt.

I cannot think of a woman held in higher regard than Christine Nixon. Perhaps as a fundraiser they could get the band back together?

Julia could wriggle into a tight short leather mini and do a bit of pelvic gyration and Joan could dribble into a microphone. Christine could sell t shirts and pies out on the footpath.

It’d be a winner.

Pickles

16 Jun 12 at 9:02 pm
Carpe

The mentally ill are likely to have a distorted view of what’s rational.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 9:03 pm
I cannot think of a woman held in higher regard than Christine Nixon

Lol

Daisy

16 Jun 12 at 9:13 pm
The mentally ill are likely to have a distorted view of what’s rational.

That is not what i am questioning. A lot of people who are serious about taking their own life (as opposed to self harm or attention seeking) see their actions as a perfectly rational decision to solve their problem.

I agree that their rationale is distorted to a rational person but that does not detract from the fact that they see their solution (suicide) as a rational decision to a problem.

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jun 12 at 9:15 pm
Many suicides who are saved go on to lead long lives. Not many terminally ill people do.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
Tonight’s quiz, guess who said this?:

…with his long-time support for nuclear power and his hatred of wind power (he has a picture of a wind turbine on the wall of his study to remind him how “ugly and useless they are”), he is now coming out in favour of “fracking”, the controversial technique for extracting natural gas from the ground. He argues that, while not perfect, it produces far less CO2 than burning coal: “Gas is almost a give-away in the US at the moment.

…says the political fallout from the Fukushima disaster in Japan last year means that the chances of a surge in nuclear power generation are dramatically reduced. “The fear of nuclear is too great after Fukushima and the cost of building plants is very expensive and impractical. And it takes a long time to get them running. It is very obvious in America that fracking took almost no time to get going.

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
[H/t Tim Blair]

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:20 pm
The mentally ill are likely to have a distorted view of what’s rational.

Lol the left even have to divide and conquer people who want to kill themselves “no, no the reason you want to kill yourself isn’t valid, only the pre-regulated reasons as determined by us are valid”.

You people are absolutely insane.

twostix

16 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
Romney has been trumped by a 3, wow. I reckon unemployed working class Americans might not be happy with that decision.

John Comnenus

16 Jun 12 at 9:27 pm
I cannot think of a woman held in higher regard than Christine Nixon. Perhaps as a fundraiser they could get the band back together?

Why don’t the Emily’s Listers give a bit back to the woman who started it all. You know, pitch in from their own pockets instead taking even more coins from other people?

LOL, I know, as if!

Token

16 Jun 12 at 9:30 pm
Zatara,

I only wrote what I heard those Journos saying – I’m a Romnety fan

Obama is a one hit wonder

Mike of Marion

16 Jun 12 at 9:31 pm
I didn’t realise that Christine Nixon’s comments came from the Victorian 730 Report. It seems Kirner did not serve the required 15 years because of “… you know the change of government.” Well that’s democracy at work.

I expect a few more federal Labor Emilys Listers might be finding themselves dealing with a you know change of government shortly.

Christine Nixon should just borrow a line from the Who and ffffffffade away.

H B Bear

16 Jun 12 at 9:40 pm
Yeah that’s right twostix its all a lefty plot. Can’t get anything past you.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 9:46 pm
passed even.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 9:46 pm
Yeah a lefty plot to not allow people to kill themselves…. not sure how that’s left-wing, but there you go.

wreckage

16 Jun 12 at 9:52 pm
Yeah that’s right twostix its all a lefty plot. Can’t get anything past you.

What plot?

I was just commenting on the average leftists inate need to divide every group, even people who want to kill themselves into favoured and unfavoured status.

One person who chooses to die under their own initiative is an “irrational” “victim” who should be stopped, someone else who chooses to die under their own intiative is righteous because they happen to fall into your favored group.

twostix

16 Jun 12 at 9:55 pm
Many suicides who are saved go on to lead long lives. Not many terminally ill people do.

This has to pass as one of the most asinine comments I read in a long while.

BTW, the unfortunate lady in question is mentally ill.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 9:56 pm
Many suicides who are saved go on to lead long lives. Not many terminally ill people do.

While that’s true, not all voluntary euthanasia cases in Australia were terminally ill.

Eddystone

16 Jun 12 at 10:00 pm
You’re getting sillier by the comment twostix.

Dover you are incoherent as usual.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 10:00 pm
passed even.

“Can’t get anything past you” was correct. I think past is a preposition here, not a past participle.

Dangph

16 Jun 12 at 10:01 pm
“Past” used as an adverb seems correct in that sentence.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:06 pm
Dang,

Give ‘im a break, Squire, it’s Saturday Night…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
You’re getting sillier by the comment twostix.

As usual you’ve got nothing.

You just called a summary of your last five posts “silly” – that should tell you something about the inherently schizophrenic nature of your views.

Or to really paraphrase you: “People don’t have the right to commit suicide, but they do have the right to have a doctor kill them”

twostix

16 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
Fair enough Dangph.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
Dover you are incoherent as usual.

In what way have I been incoherent? You made an ridiculous statement, and you’ve failed to notice that the lady in question has been judged to lack capacity.

dover_beach

16 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
Many suicides who are saved go on to lead long lives. Not many terminally ill people do.

This has to pass as one of the most asinine comments I read in a long while.

SDFC has certainly outdone himself with this one. I’m blaming it on the weekend boozing he’s afflicted with.

Hey SDFC. Not many terminally ill? Dude, how about none do, you idiot. By definition if one has a terminal illness you;re not going to be around for long.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:10 pm
Mike

“Reckon that Romney has been trumped.”

That is exactly what you said. Not ‘they’ reckon. Poor writing on your part? Ok.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 10:12 pm
“Past” used as an adverb seems correct in that sentence.

Yes, interesting (sort of) – however, a ball for example, could get ‘passed’ by an individual.

Which is slightly different.

Time for some songs…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:13 pm
It’s the sort of thing Homer would say.. idiot he is.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:13 pm
In which case Rabz, it would be a transitive verb.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:15 pm
Actually no. They don’t have a right to do either.

What you are saying is that a terminally ill person does not have the right to end their lives on their own terms.

To argue this case you’ve thrown in a proposition that suicides should not be saved. Many suicides are mentally ill. It’s a red herring.

sdfc

16 Jun 12 at 10:18 pm
One direction?

Only way to go…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:19 pm
Who reckons the Romnster has been trumped? They’re morons. Americans care about the economy and everything else is simply a side show.

I do however agree with the Kenyan’s action as I think it was a decent one although it was done for purely cynical reasons to shore up his latino vote. If kids have been there all their formative lives they are basically American and should not live in fear of say that terminal prick Sheriff Aprio hunting them down and throwing them over the border. Those that arrived as adults are of course a different story.

This isn’t going to impact the Romnster though.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:21 pm
Another Dimension…

Another Dimension…

Another Dimension…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:26 pm
SDFC

There is really nothing stopping a person ending their life now. If you try to terminate your life but fail the attempt, you don’t go to jail nor are you placed in long term psychiatric care.

The only people making a huge song and dance over it are of course left wingers, as they seem enthralled with death for some reason, particularly by the hand of the state.

Frankly the idea of the same party paying my health bill and figuring out ways of terminating me isn’t an attractive proposition as the conflict of interest is huge.

Lets look at it from this angle… lets say that the Lying Slapper, Shane Wand in consultation with sturmfehrer Frauline Von Roxon found that there was a way to save money and demonstrate a surplus in the forward years by terminating people under the guise of “caring”. Who the fuck would trust these three with their lives? Would you?

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:30 pm
Those robotics guys at Cornell are doing some amazing stuff.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:31 pm
Peter Hitchens relays reports from Syria highlighting the atrocities committed by the anti Assad activists, many of whom are apparently foreigners.

She says she has spoken to a man who took part in a march at Hama last summer. He ‘was worried for his safety, but was given a red rose to carry and assured the whole thing would be calm and orderly, and seeing many other men from the mosque joining in with their small sons, he agreed. They walked for a very few minutes, the unarmed police watching them from the wayside, then a man next to him pulled out a gun and shot the nearest policeman dead.’

A riot followed, reported by foreign TV stations as a police attack on peaceful marchers.

Eddystone

16 Jun 12 at 10:32 pm
Ever wondered how an atomic clock works and it’s use in GPS? Yeah? Well wonder no more.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:39 pm
Evidence of Peak energy continues to mount.

Apache finds massive Canadian shale-gas field

http://tinyurl.com/6v868g3

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:39 pm
“Past” used as an adverb seems correct in that sentence.

I don’t agree that it’s an adverb. We are not actually getting anything as such. I think to get X past Y is a phrasal verb, and past here is a preposition.

Dangph

16 Jun 12 at 10:39 pm
Oh bleep – grammar nayzees on teh march!

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:41 pm
I disagree. ‘half past two’ – in this case ‘past’ is a preposition.
To get something past someone, in this sense it’s an adverb.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:43 pm
We are not allowed to talk about grammar?

Dangph

16 Jun 12 at 10:43 pm
JC, Gab, Rabz, does this zombie troll invasion have historical precedents at the Cat or is the leftist klepocracy starting to bawl like babies about their impending political doom, having spent all our money?

Tom

16 Jun 12 at 10:45 pm
I do however agree with the Kenyan’s action

POTUS is a dictator JC.

DREAM didn’t pass the Senate.

Obummer can’t just announce policy.

Legislation has to be passed.

This is serious over-reach and it means people with kids <15 yo need to gain illegal entry to the US now as a matter of urgency.

Their kids future will be guaranteed.

It actually is amnesty

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 10:46 pm
so you say you’ve lost your baby…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:46 pm
‘people’ = South Americans

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 10:46 pm
We are not allowed to talk about grammar?

Of course you are – I’m an inadequate grammarian and can’t participate, that’s all…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:48 pm
I’m only a teenager in Blog years, TOm. JC has been here much much longer. In blog years he’s the great-grandpappy.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 10:49 pm
this zombie troll invasion

End of Days, Tommy.

Witness Timbo Blair’s last evening – the post about Mr Dogue goes to Canberrrrraaaaaaa….

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 10:52 pm
JC, Obama doesn’t GET to make that call, as he clearly stated here:

Obama, 28 March 2011. White House Press Release

“Those that arrived as adults are of course a different story.”

Yeah? What if they are the parents who illegaly crossed the border and brought the kiddies with them? That’s just one of the issues Congress is dealing with in trying to form new law. Obama doesn’t get to bypass them and make that decision unilaterally. Not under the US system of government.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 10:53 pm
I’ve always used an electric fly squatter, Tom. The zapping sound when you hit them is great.

They’ve been around for ages, but I must say the recent invasion is amusing, as they all seem to have lost the spring in their step. It’s all defensive crap and sneering now. They know that death is approaching though. … an awful, painful death at the next election. Don’t under any circumstances demonstrate any mercy though as they’ll simply take advantage of you.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 10:58 pm
Gab, I guess past you in I can’t get anything past you could be an adverbial phrase. That seems to work. I prefer my analysis though

Dangph

16 Jun 12 at 11:01 pm
Blimey, discussing past vs passed. And to think of the shit I got into for pointing out the difference between imply and infer!

SteveC

16 Jun 12 at 11:04 pm
Zatara, James:

I’m not really privy to what’s been going on in the Congress over this issue.

I really can’t see how how they can throw the kids out. They’re basically Americans.

look, my first kid was a year old when we arrived there and 15/16 or so when we left. He was was basically American. Throwing a kid out in those circumstances is basically is really bad shit.

Just don’t allow them to be citizens for a very long time and ensure they simply can’t be added to the Demolition party’s voter base.

I agree though, that the Kenyan shouldn’t be making these sorts of laws as it has to be agreed to with the Congress.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:04 pm
When you kiss the base of my spine…

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 11:04 pm
STFU steve C. Go away. Go comment on GetitUp’s blog or something, but just go away.

Go tell Simon S he looks really masculine.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:05 pm
Flying high upon the gallows

Too messed up to step out of the shadows…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJu6vG64C2M

Rabz

16 Jun 12 at 11:06 pm
Interesting. America’s Friendliest Places for Starting a Business.

The top eight are all red states, and ranking is based on “overall for low taxes, regulatory environments that are easy for small businesses to navigate and ease of hiring employees”.

The lowest ranked four (or least business-friendly) are blue states.

Bonus: interactive map.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:06 pm
And to think of the shit I got into for pointing out the difference between imply and infer!

Only because you were wrong.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:11 pm
Very unfortunate news today, the sudden death of the ABC broadcaster Alan Saunders.

He ran The Philosophers Zone, a wonderful program, and others as well.

Alan Saunders joined Radio National in 1987 and presented The Food Program, Screen, By Design and most recently The Philosopher’s Zone. His programs have always been popular with audiences, with The Philosopher’s Zone one of RN’s most frequently downloaded programs.

He was a qualified philosopher and on top of that he was a highly professional and multitalented writer and presenter.

Poor Old Rafe

16 Jun 12 at 11:14 pm
The Karate Kunt part 1 – Welsh Karate Kid

Warning, very stupid.

Dangph

16 Jun 12 at 11:14 pm
Well, we both agree that ‘past’ was correct in the original sentence, Dangph. So there’s that..

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:26 pm
Look at the sheer beauty of this price chart for US natural gas. Go back as far as 1990 and take a looksee.

This is living proof there is a God. We’re now basically back to 2 bucks a unit which is the same dollar price from 20 years ago and there’s more supply coming on! While I think the price won’t go much lower and could rise, it will do so as people begin to think of ways to use this wonderful new technologically driven resource. This essentially means that the US not only moves towards energy independence but also become a large exporter.

Oil doesn’t know what’s going to hit it as transformation gets going.

Pennies From Heaven –

And yes Gab I went back into WNR, but nowhere near as big -) The story of my freaking life.

Elect Romney and the US is back in business in the huge way. We could actually see uninterrupted growth for decades with this tailwind. Sure, there will be bumps along the way, but the long term arrow will be pointing up.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:29 pm
I was only yesterday checking up on WNR, it’s steady as she goes.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:31 pm
Can’t get enough revenue from traffic fines? No problem, just impose more.

RIGHT-lane road hogs will be the target of a sweeping new police crackdown.

Under the blitz, selfish motorists caught refusing to move to the left will be punished with an on-the-spot $122 fine and the loss of two demerit points.

What could go wrong?
Gotta love Victoria.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:35 pm
I really can’t see how how they can throw the kids out.

Gingrich basically said that it has to be decided on a case by case basis.

Most GOP’ers and Americans are sympathetic.

Rubio was trying to garner Dem support (apparently with some support) for a bill to cover this without laying sugar on the table for more illegal immigration.

Obummer is playing nakedly political games.

He doesn’t actually give a fuck about those kids.

He’s been hemorrhaging Latino votes

The real story here is that he thinks he can rule by decree. What he did is unconstitutional.

Don’t fall for the Kenyan’s games.

The question is whether Latino voters who were going to leave him will fall for this dross.

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 11:38 pm
JC, presumably you were in the US legally, as was your kid. The people in question aren’t and the fruits of a poisoned tree argument is valid here. If the parents are illegal the kid is.

Booting the kid out is bad shit? Tough shit. The US didn’t make that choice for them. Their parents rolled that dice for them by being there illegally in the first place. They KNEW it was a matter of time before they got caught. The kids can hate their parents, it’s part of growing up anyway.

However, if we stipulate that the kid is ok to stay it still leaves the big problem, what to do with with their parents who broke the law. Reward them with a green card? I think not. How about the kid can stay but the illegal parents get the boot?

Final alternative, enforce the damn law and boot them all. If the kids are such upstanding citizens as Obama claims, Mexico can certainly use them.

Forcing this issue at this time is Obama racist divisionist diversionary policy writ large.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 11:39 pm
To clarify something said earlier, you can be “basically” American all day long but when the man says show me your passport you either are or are not.

Zatara

16 Jun 12 at 11:43 pm
My man Rubio said:

“Today’s announcement will be welcome news for many of these kids desperate for an answer, but it is a short term answer to a long term problem. And by once again ignoring the Constitution and going around Congress, this short term policy will make it harder to find a balanced and responsible long term one.”

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:50 pm
I was only yesterday checking up on WNR, it’s steady as she goes.

Steady? there’s nothing steady with that freaking stock. It frightens the living shit out of me. I think it gets taken over.

The CEO has a huge shareholding in the firm. If it gets taken over he walks away with a cool couple of billion.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:50 pm
Yes, steady, since March.

Gab

16 Jun 12 at 11:53 pm
James

I’m pretty sure the GOP will come up something fair . And as I said at the beginning, The Kenyan was obviously playing to the Latino vote.

In any event the GOP is not going to throw these kids out.

Sorry Zatara but you comments are far too harsh for my liking. And in any event no matter who the president is those kids aren’t going to be chucked out. It’s just not happening.

JC

16 Jun 12 at 11:55 pm
Not just JC:

NRO Corner: Romney Screws the Pooch on Immigration

The problem with the president’s amnesty decree is not that it “makes it more difficult to reach that long-term solution because an executive order is, of course, just a short-term matter — it can be reversed by subsequent presidents.” The problem is that it’s u-n-c-o-n-s-t-i-t-u-t-i-o-n-a-l. You would expect Allen West and Steve King to be forceful in denouncing this usurpation, but even Amnesty John McCain and Rick “you don’t have a heart” Perry were strong. Heck, Lindsey Graham — Lindsey Graham — denounced the move as “possibly illegal.” And the fact that Romney didn’t answer when asked if he’d reverse the order is an especially bad sign.

I know all those who’ve been accusing me of being in the tank for Romney will say “I told you so,” but my distress isn’t really about his views on the policy issue at hand — he seemed to endorse Rubio’s as-yet-not-introduced revision of the DREAM Act, which I’m pretty sure I won’t like. I’m appalled because this is a fundamental matter of our political order. The precedent that would be set if the president gets away with this can — and will — be applied to other areas of law, upsetting the checks and balances that are essential to our republic. In effect, President Obama and his cheering squad are saying that representative democracy no longer works and that we need to preserve its forms but replace it with a system in which the august first citizen of the republic makes the laws

JamesK

16 Jun 12 at 11:58 pm
Gab, yea, I’ve been watching the price action since about then. They through the kitchen sink at it and it could get through 18 and hold below there despite the world looking like it was going to shit.

Over the past two weeks or so, it’s been toying with going over 20 bucks and each time it went back through, but then it came back and niggled at it. Last night it finally broke through convincingly, so this time I think it will break higher. They are just printing the cash, but what really worries me is that with the possibility of Romney winning the Keystone gets built so they will lose their great advantage. On the other hand though refineries are look okay as it’s impossible to build nee ones in the US.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:00 am
Fair enough James… As I said, I didn’t really know the background of the story, so yea the executive order is fucking bullshit. These are laws the president can pass by himself. I guess it will end up in court somehow?

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:03 am
oops… they threw

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:03 am
Thanks, JC, Am always happy to read your informed opinion on the subject. Me, i just go by feel lol. So, you know, I’ll always defer to your wise counsel.

I think it will go back down to 20 this week, maybe 19.82 even.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
CBS’ 60 Minutes pushing Islamist propaganda.

Israel to blame for the decline of Christianity in the Middle East.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:12 am
WALLABIES 25 (Horne try; Barnes 5/6 (penalties), 1/1 conversions; Harris 1/1 penalty)d WALES 23 (North, Davies tries; Halfpenny 2/2 (conversions), 3/3 penalties)

Another boring, disgraceful exhibition of what remains of rugby union tonight. Whoever gets the most penalty goal chances wins. Soccer with scrums.

In one breakdown, a Welshman was penalised for clearing out a Wallably with his shoulder (you can only use your arms now).

Now the world’s stupidest football code.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 12:18 am
I guess it will end up in court somehow?

Congress has standing to take Obama to court but that would play into his hands.

He would demagogue the issue too preserve his 70:30 advantage from 2008 Hispanic vote

No Romney needed to attack Obummer actions as u-n-c-o-n-s-t-i-t-u-t-i-o-n-a-l.

He tripped at the first important opportunity.

Santorum wouldn’t have made that mistake.

Rubio’s statement:

There is broad support for the idea that we should figure out a way to help kids who are undocumented through no fault of their own, but there is also broad consensus that it should be done in a way that does not encourage illegal immigration in the future. This is a difficult balance to strike, one that this new policy, imposed by executive order, will make harder to achieve in the long run.

Today’s announcement will be welcome news for many of these kids desperate for an answer, but it is a short term answer to a long term problem. And by once again ignoring the Constitution and going around Congress, this short term policy will make it harder to find a balanced and responsible long term one.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 12:19 am
Another big builder goes belly up.
Reed Construction.

Interesting that state government is blamed, seams like a Fed BER fuckup.

Jumpnmcar

17 Jun 12 at 12:22 am
I can’t believe anyone is even analysing Obama’s teen amnesty stunt.

a) the vast majority of Americans don’t care;
b) they’ll hate the idea when told about it.

Romney win/win.

So why did Obama do it?

Because he’s tanking so badly across all demographics now that he has to do something just to get out the base.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 12:23 am
And people whine about the comments not being published, taking too long to publish etc etc…

And by the way: a reader miffed at an interaction on this blog is threatening to take me to the Press Council. Anyone with such a thin skin and such an itch to call in the cops is advised not to participate in discussions here. Anyone issuing similar threats will risk a ban to save both them and ourselves the aggravation and cost. This is prudent risk management on our behalf. We don’t need the grief.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:25 am
James

I don’t think that now is the time for Romney to act or react on this one. Let it ride a bit and let the blogosphere and talk radio hang this usurpation of the Constition on Obama because it changes nothing on the ground today or tomorrow. Don’t give Obama the polarization he wants.

And JC, for what it’s worth I agree with you and Rubio that it needs to be dealt with eventually in a humane manner, but I bristle every time I hear about “those poor kids” which is leftist code in the US for “it’s all the white man’s fault”.

Zatara

17 Jun 12 at 12:28 am
Constitution… argh

Zatara

17 Jun 12 at 12:31 am
It was all orchestrated from the White House. So it was basically transparent bullshit.

The fucking Kenyan will stop at nothing in order to get re-elected. He’s absolute fucking poisonous and needs to get turfed out.

A group of undocumented immigrants has occupied President Barack Obama’s campaign office in downtown Oakland, refusing to leave until his administration stops deporting students.

“We’re going to stay here as long as we can,” said Luis Serrano, 24, speaking by cell phone Thursday evening from inside the Telegraph Avenue storefront where he and other students were staging a sit-in.

Serrano, three other illegal immigrant students and a supporter walked into the Obama for America office on Thursday afternoon pretending to be campaign volunteers.

“They said they were going to do some phone banking and donations,” said activist Krsna Avila of the National Immigrant Youth Alliance, which organized the protest.

Soon after arriving, however, the students plopped down, put graduation caps on their heads and informed local campaign workers they would not leave until Obama changed his deportation policy.

“We’re asking him not to deport these students,” Avila said.

The Obama campaign has not yet sought to kick them out, and instead hired a local security firm to keep watch over the students and the office overnight. Security guards could be seen in a heated discussion with the protesters inside the building on Thursday evening.

On the front door of the office the protesters put up a sign: “Closed due to deportations.”

The sit-in is part of a national campaign to disrupt Democratic campaign offices. Protesters want an executive order from Obama halting deportations of young people brought to the country illegally when they were minors.

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/pandering-obama-to-stop-deporting-younger-illegals-to-grant-them-work-permits/

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:33 am
@CL.

Hispanics are ~20% of the electorate and Obama is losing them(two thirds voted Obama in 2008.

Rubio a Republican and possible running mate of Romney was on the cusp of getting suitable legislation thru’ the Senate.

Certain important voting bloc Americans do care

Rush Limbaugh:

The president is in full panic mode. He’s not keeping his powder dry until the fall. He’s not. Why? Because people are paying attention, and we don’t like what we are seeing or what we are getting from Obama.

First the churches, then women, then Bain Capital, then gays, and now this. They’re just throwing everything up against the wall, hoping something’s gonna stick out there. He’s getting killed in the media over this speech yesterday. (We’ve got the audio sound bites.) I mean, he’s being literally reamed over the speech. And I’ll tell you what’s coming next. Here we go. We just went through the brief overview. First, War on Churches. Second, create (as part of it) a phony Republican War on Women. And then go after Mitt Romney and Bain Capital. Then come out for gay marriage.

And now: Don’t deport the young illegals; give ‘em work permits.

What’s that gonna do to the unemployment number? Are we gonna count ‘em looking for work or not? If we don’t, the number won’t drop. If we do, the number will go up. What’s it gonna do for those of you trying to get work to learn that 800,000 new illegals are in the job market who will work cheaper than you do? And what’s next is home mortgages and student loans. Those are the next two things that are gonna fall. They’ll throw it all up against the wall. You watch.

Audio sound bites. I warned everybody of this. Let’s go back to July 30th, two years ago, almost. Two years ago on this program, this is what said I…

RUSH ARCHIVE: [T]he issue here is the dictatorial nature of this regime and Obama’s willingness to do anything to advance his agenda. They’ve been caught. They are looking at ways to grant amnesty en masse without legislation if they can’t get it done, and they’ve been caught. Memo’s been seen and now they say, “Oh, no, no, no! We would never do that. We would never.” They’re looking at it … and if they could find a way to do it, if they can find a way to do it, who knows? With this bunch you just don’t know. You have to assume, based on everything else we’ve seen ‘em do, that they would do it.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 12:33 am
First it was bacon sundaes, now it’s bacon doughnuts, in Melbourne. Sounds awful.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:34 am
No, I don’t think so, James.

Obama’s stunt credit card is maxed out.

Latinos are abandoning Obama over his war on Catholicism and the fall-out for that is not going away.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 12:39 am
James

I don’t think Rush is being accurate here over the issue of the jobs number. I don’t think they would be counted in the payroll numbers if they were documented as you can’t apply for the dole.

I’m sure the White House has figured this out because a bubble that size suddenly hitting the payroll stats would kill them even more.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:39 am
Crispy bacon donuts?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 12:39 am
Also, I’ve seen stats in the past that actually show documented Latinos aren’t too friendly with the idea of more coming over as they obviously believe it impacts on their work potential.

I’m sure it help the Kenyan with the most radicalized of them, but I’m not sure it does with the great bulk of Latinos. They are just as worried about job security and availability as anyone else.

It’s the economy stupid. And as CL says people are getting pretty sick with his disgusting stunts now.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:43 am
Video: Biden Says Cities in China Are Better Than in America

Btw, subscribe to that dudes channel. Lots of great material.

Alex Pundit

17 Jun 12 at 12:44 am
Limbaugh: “Are we gonna count ‘em looking for work or not?”

800,000 legal job hunters are now in the market and unemployment is high.

It won’t go down well whether officially unemployed or not.

I think this is another bad move by Obummer politically but even worse for those people.

He’s the President.

His party control the Senate.

He could have done a permanent fix the right way.

He merely decided a short term hit to rescue his dreadful week was the go.

This was in the bottom drawer for 2 years

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 12:46 am
James

the points you bring up are quite good. I’m sure the GOP will begin to hammer him for the transparent arsehole he is.

Gaining 5% of the Latino vote is not going to compensate for losing 1% of the white vote.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:52 am
The short version is the Obama is a jerk.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 12:58 am
How is the executive order going to change this perception.

(Reuters) – With President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney delivering dueling visions for the U.S. economy in speeches on Thursday, a majority of independents said that Obama’s policies have made it harder for Americans to gain employment, a Reuters/Ipsos poll showed on Friday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/15/us-usa-campaign-poll-idUSBRE85E1CO20120615

“It’s the economy stupid”

It makes it worse for him, because if I was sitting there I’d be thinking this fucker is out on the White House making a big speech about illegals and shows absolutely no fucking interest in my plight, looking for a job and not finding one.

He’s cooked.

Every time he deviates away from the economy, it’s worse for him. Every time he tries to talk about the economy he reminds people he’s done nothing about it and spent time adding to the deficit by cooking up more spending with KenyanCare.

Put this in ” the Kenyan is rooted” bin.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:58 am
oops missed the quote markers

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:59 am
Get the U-Haul truck as he’s outta there.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 1:00 am
If Obama goes from 2/3rds to 1/2 of the Hispanic vote that’s 3-4 points less for Obama and worse potentially 3 points better for Romney

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 1:04 am
I had thought that Obama’s vote could disintegrate 2-4 weeks away from the election but it now looks like could happen a lot sooner.

That’s why the Dems are in panic mode

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 1:07 am
Also, I’ve seen stats in the past that actually show documented Latinos aren’t too friendly with the idea of more coming over as they obviously believe it impacts on their work potential.

This ‘don’t swamp the Titanic raft’ phenomenon is well known in immigrant communities.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 1:08 am
Steyn goes in the for the kill…

Take, for example, the attempt at soaring rhetoric: “That’s how we built this country — together. We constructed railroads and highways, the Hoover Dam and the Golden Gate Bridge. We did those things together,” he said, in a passage that was presumably meant to be inspirational but was delivered with the faintly petulant air of a great man resentful at having to point out the obvious, yet again. “Together, we touched the surface of the moon, unlocked the mystery of the atom, connected the world through our own science and imagination. We haven’t done these things as Democrats or Republicans. We’ve done them as Americans.”

Beyond the cheap dissembling, there was a bleak, tragic quality to this paragraph. Does anyone really believe a second-term Obama administration is going to build anything? Yes, you, madam, the gullible sap at the back in the faded hope’n’change T-shirt. You seriously think your guy is going to put up another Hoover Dam? Let me quote one Deanna Archuleta, Obama’s deputy assistant secretary of the interior, in a speech to Democrat environmentalists in Nevada:

“You will never see another federal dam.”

Ever.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 1:08 am
They should bring Axelrod out again, as a distraction lol.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 1:09 am
I think Romney heard you talking
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/16/romney-back-to-economy-after-immigration-detour/

Jumpnmcar

17 Jun 12 at 1:12 am
This ‘don’t swamp the Titanic raft’ phenomenon is well known in immigrant communities.

Remember this?

When Mohammed Qurban stood outside the Jamia mosque in the heavily Muslim Bury Park district on Tuesday and spoke anxiously about Britain’s record-high levels of immigration, he was reflecting a powerful undercurrent that could help tip victory in dozens of constituencies in Thursday’s general election to the main opposition groups vying with the governing Labour Party for power, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats.

“I think this country is coming overpopulated, too many people coming in from everywhere, especially Europe,” Mr. Qurban said, as fellow worshipers nodded in assent. In particular, he said, thousands of Poles in Luton were taking jobs from the children and grandchildren of a previous generation of immigrants like himself, those who arrived from Pakistan in one of Britain’s early waves of migration in the 1960s.

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/05/05/immigration-irony/

Fisky

17 Jun 12 at 1:15 am
If anyone ever wants a really good market economist on their blog roll, they can’t go past this dude.

I read quite a bit of research from the i-banks on the macto side, especially now because everything is so macro.

But this guy is as good as there is and he’s free!

http://scottgrannis.blogspot.com.au/

JC

17 Jun 12 at 1:19 am
I don’t think they would be counted in the payroll numbers if they were documented as you can’t apply for the dole.

Yes, you can only access unemployment insurance (note: it’s called insurance for a reason) if you have worked a certain number of quarters and thus had SSI (social security insurance) premiums deducted from your pay. If you worked illegally, you wouldn’t have had a valid social security number, and thus wouldn’t have any credits built up.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 1:39 am
“You Don’t Speak For Me” — Hispanic Americans Against Illegal Aliens

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 1:46 am
I like this dude’s music. It’s pretty cool. Some hip hop is good to listen to.

Anyway I checked TI’s wiki and sure enough there’s the necessary weapons charge. It’s part of the right of passage for a hip hop artist. TI wasn’t kiddin around…

On October 13, 2007, federal authorities arrested T.I. four hours before the BET Hip-Hop Awards in Atlanta.[30] He was charged with two felonies — possession of three unregistered machine guns and two silencers, and possession of firearms by a convicted felon.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 1:51 am
Potemkin’s Village

You are condemned by your silence… here

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 2:34 am
Two other views now that the dust is settling

Illegal Amnesty

Lawless President

Zatara

17 Jun 12 at 4:36 am
Two other views now that the dust is settling

Illegal Amnesty

Lawless President

Zatara

17 Jun 12 at 4:36 am
Yesterday’s SMH had Peter Hartcher doing mental contortions. In relating the story of Julia’s appearance on Q&A, he managed to cast two of the questioners as examples of rampant “entitlement” thinking out there in the ungrateful electorate.
One asked why it was that the hard working middle class always seemed to cop a pasting from Labor, while the other, on a low wage but no benefits, asked why, when people were only just coping (for some reason including her daughter on a student allowance in the city that only just covered rent) they shouldn’t be concerned about the extra imposts of the carbon tax.
I would have thought a treatise on the entitlement attitude, something that the media seemed rwluctant to engage with or even agree existed when Joe Hockey brought it up recently, could have been built on a firmer foundation than that one.

Blogstrop

17 Jun 12 at 7:01 am
Anyone issuing similar threats will risk a ban to save both them and ourselves the aggravation and cost.

The Left will do anything to bring Bolt down, Gab, because he’s so good at what he does: he exposes their hypocrisy and the very tactics he’s talking about here, he makes them look like the angry, irresponsible children they are. I’m just waiting for the idiots in Canberra to try to Finkelstein him, after sikking Mordy onto him. Any further attempt to silence Bolt will cost Labor another 1-3% of its primary vote as ordinary people will react with even more revulsion than they have now. There will also be industry-wide media civil disobedience, IMO. So I’m torn: I want the fascists to bring on the fascism to help destroy them, but I don’t trust the Liberal Socialists to act swiftly to undo the damage to free speech in this country, including repealing Finkelstein (if it goes ahead) and Lavarch’s changes to the Racial Discrimination Act.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 7:05 am
Amnesty International always gets a good run from the media when it goes looking for problems in remote “communities”. This week’s iteration featured one in the NT, north of Alice, which had had no running water for nine months, and where the homes are overcrowded.
This, they said, was just appalling in a rich country like Australia.
Listen up, Amnesty. Stop wasting your supporters money on beatups like this. There are far greater problems in the world for you to ferret out and to highlight.
How about suggesting to the Australian government that they give up on subsidising unviable communities where the kids have no hope of progress, or even basic education and upbringing. How much money has been wasted for how many years paying sit-down money to people to be degraded living museum, a monument to wrong thinking elites?
And everybody, stop the Stolen talk, recommence the Rescued talk.

Blogstrop

17 Jun 12 at 7:13 am
Can someone tell me: is there a website where I can upload photos from my own laptop/PC private files so I then have a linkable URL address for the image?

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 7:31 am
Tom

Try flickr or photobucket

Carpe Jugulum

17 Jun 12 at 7:51 am
Or directly from Google’s picasa.

blogstrop

17 Jun 12 at 8:12 am
There was a time when Amnesty International was worth supporting. Back in the day it had a clear moral purpose of supporting political prisoners, regardless of their politics, who had not advocated violence.

Unfortunately for AI that precluded lots of high profile favourites, such as Mandella.

Nowadays AI has become just another tedious left wing squawk promoting the latest fashionable left wing causes. It’s a shame really, I use to enjoy getting letters back from various nasty governments telling me how wicked AI was and that the people they had locked up and tortured really deserved it.

johno

17 Jun 12 at 8:13 am
January 20, 2013, a reelected President Barack Obama gives his inaugural address.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 8:24 am
I just want the image, not an advertisement for the host surrounding the image like Flickr. I’ve seen others using URL picture files/libraries I’m not familiar with and assume they offer this service.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 8:28 am
Tom
postimage.org

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 8:48 am
OOPS
postimage.org

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 9:01 am
In its desire to prop up the same-sex-marriage agenda, though, the court has… established a shocking precedent: Not only photographers but writers, videographers, graphic designers, and a host of others who market their services can now be legitimately forced by the government to work on behalf of causes with which they disagree.

The case is ripe for hypotheticals: An atheist web programmer asked to create a megachurch’s Internet site? A Muslim graphic designer asked to create an advertisement for a hot-dog stand? According to the court’s decision, the government has the right and the responsibility to force each to participate, despite his conscience objections.

All of this was predicted by conservatives and dismissed by libertarian statists.

It will also get knocked down by a higher court, rejected out of hand by bed wetting conservatives.

.

17 Jun 12 at 9:02 am
Thanks, Rudi, but postimage.org also reproduces the image on a postimage.org template like Flickr does – not on its own as I require. Finnicky technical bullshit, I know.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 9:04 am
All of this was predicted by conservatives and dismissed by libertarian statists.

Does not matter what the agenda, the slippery slope, tip of the iceberg, foot in the door doesn’t figure in the left’s reasoning.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 9:07 am
Mr Schiff returns to Washington.

Believe it or not they invited him back, first video was posted on the Cat here

Round two is not pretty.

Apologies if it’s been posted before.

CraigS

17 Jun 12 at 9:13 am
Tom, that post by Bolt is interesting as it helps explain:

1. The flood of indignant lefties on Bolt, Blair and sites like the Cat
2. Why these and the regular lefty trolls support the Pinki Finki report.

From my understanding, Bolt & Blair are vulnerable to a campaign of endless vexatious claims to the press council, in order to silence them, whereas blogs like the Cat is not.

It is amazing how hard those non-profits who are funded by donations of the endlessly expanding public services & gov grants to subvert our democracy.

Token

17 Jun 12 at 9:15 am
Tom
I think the only alternative then is your own website with photo gallery/album software.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 9:20 am
Tom: Why not just open a free blogger or wordpress blog and choose a template specifically customized for ‘togs (photographers) (I’ve seen a few) and post your photos there?

Or if you insert the image into a post in WordPress, then you can link to just the image.

Example: a post; just the image from that post.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 9:34 am
Bolt & Blair are vulnerable to a campaign of endless vexatious claims to the press council, in order to silence them, whereas blogs like the Cat is not.

There’s no reason the Cat would be exempted, except that it has only 10-15% of Bolt’s traffic (3m pageviews p.m.).
The newspaper industry thought it could gain appeasement by installing a whingeing leftwing statist like Julian Disney as chairman of the Press Council. The chairman/woman of the PC needs to be someone who defends freedom of speech, not a partisan who’s happy to see the press muzzled to advance a political cause.
The whole ugly Finkelstein attack needs to be angrily swept away by an incoming government, but the Libs have hardly uttered a squeak. And if there is going to be an effective Press Council, it needs to: a) speed up its processes; b) make a stand against vexatious litigants attempting to clog up the system with point-scoring politically motivated complaints.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 9:40 am
i wonder if A. Bolt is actually a Labor supporter if there was a change of leadership and carbon tax policy. his site favours the ALP posters and seems heavily censored in respect of conservative posters

candy

17 Jun 12 at 9:40 am
Are you say the Cat is currently covered, or would be under the regressive anti-liberty totalitarian legislation Finki & Rickety put together for Conroy?

If the former is true, Sinc will be in for merry hell from the astro turf organisations the left have created as shells for this activity.

Token

17 Jun 12 at 9:49 am
Sorry, Toke, I misunderstood one of your points. You’re right: I understand the PC doesn’t currently cover websites like the Cat, but there has been recent talk of the PC extending its reach to cover online media. Currently it covers only “websites of publishers which are constituent bodies of the council”.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 9:50 am
there has been recent talk of the PC extending its reach to cover online media

Any news-related website which gets 15,000 pageviews a year will fall under the new media council’s purview.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 10:03 am
Zatara: You are being extremely harsh. This is one thing Jug Ears has called right.

When I lived in the States our apartment was cleaned weekly by a little Puruvian woman. She was an illegal (although later took advantage of an amnesty) but represented everything that America is supposed to be about. She worked her dot off, built a network of other immigrant women to handle all the work she was getting via customer referrals and ended up with a thriving small business. She had three kids and sent each to a parochial school — every one of them a hard worker like their mum and all bound for college.

People like that are any country’s future. As far as I know, neither she nor her kids ever made a claim against the public purse. Her kids were American in everything but official papers and so was she in her desire to work and get ahead.

Obama is an incompetent disgrace, but he fluked the right response on this matter.

areff

17 Jun 12 at 10:09 am
sorry if it’s been mentioned but here’s Mark Steyn on Obama
a bit of cut and paste

Round about this time in the election cycle, a presidential challenger finds himself on the stump and posing a simple test to voters: “Ask yourself — are you better off now than you were four years ago?”

But, in fact, you don’t need to ask yourself, because the Federal Reserve Board’s Survey of Consumer Finances has done it for you. Between 2007 and 2010, Americans’ median net worth fell 38.8 percent — or from $126,400 per family to $77,300 per family. Oh, dear. As I mentioned a few months ago, when readers asked me to recommend countries they could flee to, most of the countries worth fleeing to Americans can no longer afford to live in.
…
Self-pity is never an attractive quality, and in an elected head of state even less so. Obama whines that his opponents say it’s all his fault. One can argue about whose fault it is, but not, as my colleagues at National Review pointed out, whose responsibility it is: It’s his. He’s the only president we have. And he made things worse. He increased the national debt by some 70 percent, and what do we have to show for it? No dams, no railroads, no moon shots. Just government, and bureaucracy, and regulation, unto national bankruptcy.

“Fly me to the moon / Let me play among the stars . . . ” Who needs another moon shot? Obama’s already up there, soaring ever more unmoored from reality. Pity us mere mortals back on Planet Earth, living in the land he made.

He’s on fire!

val majkus

17 Jun 12 at 10:14 am
Which will cost you more in fines, getting your jetski too close to a whale -

A RASH decision has led to an expensive lesson for Hallett Cove man Joshua Philip.

Mr Philip, 35, was fined $15,000 this month for returning to get close to the pod of five whales he came across off Encounter Bay in July last year.

The father of two was just the second person to be fined in South Australia for breaching whale exclusion zones around Victor Harbor.

-or running over and killing a cyclist and leaving the scene of the accident?

HIT-RUN lawyer Eugene McGee lunched with friends yesterday as Attorney-General John Rau closed the final avenue of justice his victim’s family sought.

Mr Rau said he would not refer the 2003 incident, in which McGee hit and killed cyclist Ian Humphrey, to the Legal Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal for further action.

McGee hit and killed Mr Humphrey on Kapunda Rd between Kapunda and Gawler, fled the scene and then evaded police and alcohol testing before handing himself in hours later. He was fined $3100 for driving without due care.

Eddystone

17 Jun 12 at 10:27 am
From my understanding, Bolt & Blair are vulnerable to a campaign of endless vexatious claims to the press council, in order to silence them

They kicked off with the campaign on Bolt a year ago and now, sadly, my observation is the estimable Tim Blair’s blog is being closely vetted by the kiddies from Grabbit and Run or someone (for fabulous fees from News). The number of posts has reduced, the postings are en bloc about twice a day and very late, and the posters are fewer.

Several hitherto innocuous comments by me are not getting past the keeper – this is how I recall the decline of Bolt’s commencing. It’s a bloody shame because I’ve got a ton of time for Tim Blair, an amused and amusing articulate professional and a gentleman with it (in a couple of private exchanges we’ve had). Friend kae speaks well of him personally as a decent bloke and that’s good enough for me.

I don’t have the same regard for Bolt who, in my estimation, would jump to the other side with only a little of his characteristic hand wringing anguish if he thought that would deliver greater popularity.

They have no mandate but the Left’s thought police are bloody relentless and that gives me the ships. There are too many like minded kiddies attending finishing school at Fox and News (awaiting a cruisy ministerial staff job where they get paid lots for doing not much) for these organisations to effectively mount a counter atttack.

Thus we have a disaggregated, weaker rear guard action by the small independent blogs. I fear the Left will ultimately succeed because the Right’s leaders such as Baillieu and Abbott make no determined case against them even now.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jun 12 at 10:27 am
Yes, Dog, it gets confusing if you’re not following closely. The Australian Press Council is beefing itself up to head off the Finkelsteining of the media by a proposed new government News Media Council, which would be the only statutory media regulator in the democratic world at the behest of the the Australians Greens and all their extremist mates.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 10:33 am
I don’t have the same regard for Bolt who, in my estimation, would jump to the other side with only a little of his characteristic hand wringing anguish if he thought that would deliver greater popularity.

I don’t agree. Bolta has been a conservative columnist since 1998 (at least). I remember the shock when I first read his column, it was very rare to see conservative opinion pieces back then. I didn’t expect him to last, given the overwhelming bias of the media, which was much worse then, IIRC.

He’s never been very popular with the luvvies, but he also has to criticise policies and character no matter what side of politics is involved, not just be an anti-Gillard attack dog.

Eddystone

17 Jun 12 at 10:38 am
a.Bolt was very partial to Ms Gillard tho wasn’t he, in the beginning.

perhaps he sees himself as a kingmaker or queenmaker and if the queen doesn’t work out he’ll look for a new king or queen.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 10:45 am
Tom: re pics.

http://imageshack.us/

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 11:01 am
Sarah Hanson-Young channels Dot, launches attack on Christian churches for preaching Christianity.

Churches ‘scaremongering’ on same-sex marriage, say Greens.

THE Greens have accused church leaders of blatant scaremongering after congregations across Sydney were warned against same-sex marriage.
Top Anglican and Catholic clergy have penned statements to be read out or distributed at Sunday services, warning a change to the Marriage Act allowing gay or lesbian couples to wed would be inconsistent with religious teachings.

The Greek Orthodox Church wrote a similar statement in May that is expected to be read out this weekend.

“It’s sad that in churches this morning they will only be presented with one view,” Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young told reporters on Sunday.

“Frankly, it’s scaremongering at its most blatant.”

And this… LOL:

Australian Marriage Equality national convenor Alex Greenwich appealed to the church leaders for respect, saying same-sex marriage wouldn’t impinge on heterosexual rights.

“I’d like to send a message to the priests and parishioners that we come in peace, and we share your respect for the institution of marriage and … for freedom of religion,” he told reporters in Sydney.

How long before it’s proposed that churches must present “both views”?

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 11:11 am
This is what desperation looks like:

SF Chronicle reprints 2006 article as breaking news — because it contained flattering Obama tidbit

Why in the world would a major newspaper reprint a 6-year-old article as if it was fresh and new? Is there a shortage of writers and content in 2012? The whole things seems odd and inscrutable.

Until, that is, you encounter the little Obama tidbit at the end. Suddenly it all becomes clear: They were trying to find some way to remind the public of how selfless and humble Obama is (or was, at least), and the solution was to reprint an old article nonchalantly, as if was new. Except someone forgot to update “Illinois Senator” to “President” in the editing process. Ooops.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:31 am
Can someone tell me: is there a website where I can upload photos from my own laptop/PC private files so I then have a linkable URL address for the image?

blogger.com won’t mess with your image and you’ll have a linkable url (although it will be quite long).
There are tons of free blogging platforms, for example,
wordpress.com
tumblr.com
blog.com
etc. Experiment away but most of these should provide some kind of linkability for images.

daddy dave

17 Jun 12 at 11:44 am
Potemkin’s Village

These”Ladies” from Emily’s List want… here

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 11:47 am
Potemkin’s Village

These “Ladies” from Emily’s List want… here

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 11:48 am
“These”Ladies” from Emily’s List want… here”

i like that better than your other stuff, Mr Grigory.
doubt you’ll get on Mr Bolt’s site but! not allowed to mention Emily’s List over there.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 12:00 pm
Thanks Candy, more to come. Used to be on Bolt’s but was punted

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 12:02 pm
Sarah Hanson-Young channels Dot, launches attack on Christian churches for preaching Christianity.

Fuck you.

.

17 Jun 12 at 12:02 pm
“You are condemned by your silence” – Grigory that one upthread was exceptionally well done, to my mind. You have a deft hand at subtlety with a hidden punch lol.

Your Emily’s List one is powerful.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:03 pm
Curious.

Less than two weeks after the Gillard Labor government declared that higher education had been “spared” from cutbacks in its 2012 budget, a new round of job losses has been revealed at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) in Sydney. The sackings at UNSW are the latest in a series of cuts taking place to departments and jobs at universities across Australia, with the complicity of the National Tertiary Education Union (NTEU).

At least 10 positions have been eliminated in UNSW’s Computer, Science and Engineering (CSE) school, according to the NTEU. The Student Representative Council at UNSW told the World Socialist Web Site that the real number of jobs shed is 30, including voluntary redundancies that were agreed to one week prior to the announcement.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
Thanks Gab

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 12:15 pm
Video: The powerhouse that is Farage. Always worth the watch.

“The euro Titanic has hit the iceberg and there aren’t enough lifeboats” said Nigel Farage in Strasbourg today (13th June). During a debate where the EU President Hermann Van Rompuy was notably absent after assuring MEPs that the crisis had turned a corner, Mr Farage revealed the disastrous policies which have now been implemented to stop Spain defaulting.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:17 pm
PAGING JC

Hi JC. Do me a favour will you, please? Remind this idiot Emerson that despite being asked on numerous occasions, he has never accepted an invite to appear on the Bolt Report. Perhaps it’s too “dangerous” for him? So who is he to slur Barnaby?

Yes Barnaby ran from MTP to have a cuppa with Bolt. Weak. Abbott won’t do Q&A. Weak. Pathetic political cowards.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
Sure gab.

Jc

17 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
To be honest, gab, can’t understand why they’re scared of bolt. He’s really very easy on them. I’d be throwing chairs and cameras at them when they started lying.

Jc

17 Jun 12 at 12:30 pm
I think the Chinese will likely be the first people to reach Mars.

CHINA has sent its first woman into space on a mission to dock with an orbiting station, the latest step in an ambitious programme to go to the moon and on to Mars.

The Shenzhou-9 capsule lifted off smoothly at the Jiuquan launch centre, set in the arid wastes of north China’s Gansu province, commanded by an air force colonel, Jing Haipeng, 46.

Alongside him was the pioneering female astronaut, Liu Yang, a 33-year-old major married to a fellow air force officer. The third crewman was another colonel, Liu Wang, 43.

The trio are among a breed of “superbeings”, said state media, a cadre of astronauts who will one day be able to endure the 56 million km journey to Mars…

Their training was run by the military but can be pieced together from Chinese specialist magazines and army journals. Physical and psychological resilience are put to extreme test in the so-called “58 ladders” that Chinese astronauts must “climb” to qualify for national fame – and there are no concessions to women.

They face discipline that civilian astronauts in the West would find unacceptable. One astronaut, Li Qinglong, told how he was taken to a remote location in Russia and dumped outside in subzero temperatures for 48 hours, wearing only a thin coat and allowed to eat only a piece of biscuit every few hours.

In another test, candidates have to overcome dizziness and G-forces in a centrifuge before being made to sleep hanging by straps for five nights.

Mental sharpness is honed in more than 50 specialised classes including higher mathematics, systems engineering, electronics, psychology and English.

NASA is no longer tough enough to compete.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 1:45 pm
NASA is no longer tough enough to compete.

That’s not fair CL.

President Obama told NASA that its highest priority should be “to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering.”

There are no muslims on Mars so there’s no point.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 2:02 pm
One astronaut, Li Qinglong, told how he was taken to a remote location in Russia and dumped outside in subzero temperatures for 48 hours, wearing only a thin coat and allowed to eat only a piece of biscuit every few hours.

If that was the main selection criteria then 5 million Siberians would also probably pass.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 2:03 pm
Mental sharpness is honed in more than 50 specialised classes including higher mathematics, systems engineering, electronics, psychology and English.

Good old English. Always throws out a few curly ones to keep the mental faculties alert.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jun 12 at 2:16 pm
Seriously, has Craig Emerson had some sort of breakdown?

[Mal Brough- says he has nothing to hide and has told his lawyers to contact the government's lawyers and hand over the text messages and emails immediately to expedite the case.

Uh-oh. He doesn’t sound very worried, right?

Brough seeking speedy Ashby text handover.

Somebody is angry about this:

Labor frontbencher Craig Emerson said it was “rubbish, absolutely rubbish,” that Mr Brough had nothing to hide.

“He had plenty to hide,” Dr Emerson told the Ten Network on Sunday.

“Why did he seek to hide it, why did he tell the media it was nonsense the suggestion he’d ever met with Mr Ashby? He met with him three times.

“He organised and worked on the preparations of the allegations against Mr Slipper.”

This turd – along with Albanese and Roxon – are using Commonwealth powers to pervert the course of justice.

This is corruption.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 2:36 pm
Jeebus, STEVEC, you have absolutley no sense of irony.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 2:50 pm
jc ‏@jca12345

Albanesegate and roxongate “Albanese and Roxon – are using Commonwealth powers to pervert the course of justice.” http://tinyurl.com/77c6r4f

jc ‏@jca12345

emersongate”This turd along with Albanese and Roxon are using Commonwealth powers to pervert the course of justice. http://tinyurl.com/77c6r4f

JC

17 Jun 12 at 3:03 pm
jc ‏@jca12345

Craig Emerson:”Weak. Abbott won’t do Q&A. Weak. Pathetic political cowards.” Weak dishonest Gillard won’t do Bolt. Why Craig, why?

16h jc jc ‏@jca12345

Ant Albanese says investigate slippergate as it’s like Watergate Albanese says don’t investigate Creeper Thompson because he’ll self harm.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 3:04 pm
Gab at 2:50. I assume you are referring to my posts on the Climate change thread. In which case I applaud your move, to bring what could have become a tedious thread derailment over here instead!.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 3:10 pm
From my understanding, Bolt & Blair are vulnerable to a campaign of endless vexatious claims

That’s what happened to Sarah Palin and actually drove her from the governorship of Alaska – she was bombarded with spurious ethics claims that could have driven her broke to defend.

Viva

17 Jun 12 at 3:16 pm
Anyone can do what Emo does: Looksee

jc

LNP grassroots demand full investigation into Gillard’s riotgate. Seek return of instigator from UK labor to answer quest of PM involvement.

jc

New Lib government must demand full investigation with subpena powers in ALP Riotgate

JC

17 Jun 12 at 3:26 pm
SteveC. Wy wony you tell us how you know what China and the US are going to do or do you just make that shit up?

Tiny Dancer

17 Jun 12 at 3:32 pm
JC,
Add the #auspol hash tag to your tweets and your message will reach a larger audience (ok a lot will be the undead though).

Woolfe

17 Jun 12 at 3:33 pm
Ok thanks wolfe

JC

17 Jun 12 at 3:34 pm
New proposed ” biker laws” for NSW are just wrong.

The new offence makes it clear that:
(a) habitual consorting requires the defendant, at a minimum, to have consorted with at least 2 convicted offenders and to have consorted with each of those offenders on at least 2 occasions.

If this came to QLD I’d get arrested for talking to concreter s at work ( which i try to avoid anyway).

Jumpnmcar

17 Jun 12 at 3:34 pm
Jeebus, STEVEC, you have absolutley no sense of irony.

Gab, amoebas don’t do irony or humour. It’s a struggle for them to do even human empathy. SteveC is a particularly tragic case. He’d like to be like us, but, as a staffer, he’s pledged to betray us for the greater good of the Zombie Nation.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 3:36 pm
Gillama has gone rogue

Remarkably, President Obama has gone rogue, running as no other Democrat before him, openly declaring war on America. The opposing armies are Obama’s entitlement-minded-social-justice-zealots vs. hardworking Americans — patriots who love their country and respect our Constitution.

Destroying our economy is a part of Obama’s re-election campaign — make life so horrible that voters will turn to big government via Obama to be their savior. Yes, I said it. Obama is destroying our economy on purpose.

American household wealth dropped 39%. Forty-five million Americans are on food stamps and that number is growing.

Obama still blames our horrific economy on Bush. Bush left office with America $5 trillion in the red. Obama has tripled Bush’s spending, putting us a whopping $15 trillion in debt. Economists say once Obama’s entitlements are fully implemented, America will be $211 trillion in the hole.

I say it again: Obama is destroying America’s economy on purpose. With pride, he is the welfare/food stamp president. Obama believes that the Constitution and capitalism are unfair and must be replaced with social justice.

We are definitely in for “you ain’t seen nuthin yet” from our Juliack Gillama.
How much more of our economy will she destroy in 15 months.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 3:53 pm
Australian Local Government Association basically calls for nationalisation of Australian mining.

The 151-page report was released on Sunday ahead of the start of the ALGA’s annual national general assembly in Canberra and appears to support the federal government’s claim the benefits of the boom are not being felt by most Australians.

Unlike Norway, which set up a sovereign wealth fund to invest excess proceeds from its massive petroleum reserves and uses some of the capital gains for government projects, Australia had failed to extract the most out of its boom.

‘Norway adopted a comprehensive planning process to maximise the long-run benefits of its resource expansion and endowed this process with resources sufficient to make a difference,’ the report said.

‘Australia did not and still has not.’

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National/2012/06/17/Mining_boom_benefits_for_few_report_761883.html

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 3:56 pm
We are definitely in for “you ain’t seen nuthin yet” from our Juliack Gillama.
How much more of our economy will she destroy in 15 months.

They will enact as much of a left plan as they can get away with. It’s scorched earth policy from now on.

Watch next budget how they re-impose death and gift taxes above a threshold that won’t impact their constituency. all in the name of “fairness”

JC

17 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Cockroaches use just two pieces of information… here

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
#auspol Lib grassroots demand outside ombudsman with firing powers to counter ABC ALP/Greens bias. No employee rep at board level

JC

17 Jun 12 at 4:24 pm
Anthony Albanese ‏@AlboMP

Extraordinary that @Tony_Burke is being denied a pair to attend Rio+20 Conference as Environment Minister #somuchforparliamentaryconventions

4m jc jc ‏@jca12345

@AlboMP @Tony_Burke Yep. Hardly requiring his attendance when the entire Climate Change Dept including janitor and dept masseuse are going.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 4:32 pm
Good old English. Always throws out a few curly ones to keep the mental faculties alert.

The reality of them having a good grasp of English is so when the mission fails Apollo 13 style the Wongmanauts can call on NASA technicians (not known for their grasp of Mandarin or Cantonese) to bring them home safely.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 4:40 pm
They will enact as much of a left plan as they can get away with. It’s scorched earth policy from now on.

Yep, and they are scaring the shit outa me.

Biota 12th June 7.38pm made me sit up as well.

It concerns me that the Labor/Green/Union alliance could have some scheme to effectively make null the democratic process before the next election. Maybe?

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 4:43 pm
Tiny at 3.32
I don’t know what China and the USA will do about carbon emissions over the next 5-10 years, any more than you, or anyone else knows. I said what I expect they will do. My expectation is based on the agreement at Durban, China’s current 5 year plan, and the current USA policy. If Obama wins he has said he regards Climate Change as an important policy area. Romney is a bit more difficult to read, as he seems to have started to flip/flop since he was Massachusetts governor. (a bit like Abbott).

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 4:50 pm
Wongmanauts?

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 4:52 pm
It concerns me that the Labor/Green/Union alliance could have some scheme to effectively make null the democratic process before the next election. Maybe?

Maybe you have seriously lost the plot?

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 4:55 pm
Why would that be SteveC.

They are attempting to finkelstein free speech. They banned any firm reporting prices increases in energy as a result of da carbon tax. They started a race riot.

You seriously think they would not attempt to null democratic processes?

You idiot, SteveC.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 5:05 pm
Trasury Modeling again:

I said the Tony Bourke on Twitter:

jc ‏@jca12345

@Tony_Burke Tony, ban all fishing around Oz and be done with it. Why stop here. Any of u economic illiterates considered impact on seafood?

23m Tony Burke Tony Burke ‏@Tony_Burke

@jca12345 the plan affects 1-2% of the gross value of wild catch production.

Then my reply to him:

jc ‏@jca12345

@Tony_Burke same lies we get from treasury’s models, Tony? Who audited the figs? Add in the food price increases and the compensation?

I would bet my net worth they have fiddled around with the figures. Anything.

They’re basically lying their heads off.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 5:07 pm
You seriously think they could have some scheme to effectively make null the democratic process before the next election?

You sad-case, JC

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 5:10 pm
They banned any firm reporting prices increases in energy as a result of da carbon tax.

Obviuosly not including the actual energy companies.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 5:11 pm
“@AlboMP @Tony_Burke Yep. Hardly requiring his attendance when the entire Climate Change Dept including janitor and dept masseuse are going.”

that’s a really good one JC!
don’t forget to helpfully mention his teeth sometime.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 5:12 pm
At least Bourke has increased business for Thai and indo fishermen. Fish we will need to import due to lack of fishing industry in Oz.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 5:12 pm
Don’t forget, JC, Gillard and Bourke (and possibly Emo) will be going to Brazil talkfest.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 5:14 pm
So your expectations are based on cheap talk and no action. You are stupid. Just like SfB

Tiny Dancer

17 Jun 12 at 5:15 pm
Obviuosly not including the actual energy companies.

NO
Energy companies are not allowed to itemise/report the CO2 tax, unlike the GST.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 5:35 pm
Anti-abortion bible thumpers taking over the cat bit by bit. Soon there will be no place for libertarians in Oz blogging.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 5:45 pm
Anti-abortion bible thumpers taking over the cat bit by bit.

So there’s only room for pro-abortion atheists on the Cat? Only one-sided view on the Cat? Yes, perhaps this is no longer a libertarian blog in that case.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 5:48 pm
So I can’t be catholic and anti-abortion, sorry.
I’ll piss-off now, don’t want be an inconvenience.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 5:53 pm
Rudiau,
http://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/Home/Industries/Electricity/Reviews/Retail_Pricing/Changes_in_regulated_electricity_retail_prices_from_1_July_2012

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 5:55 pm
Rudi, apparently only “bible-thumpers” are anti-abortion. No one else.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 5:56 pm
Yobbo, we could vote to rename it TeaPartyFiles.com ?

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 5:58 pm
Gab,
that’s how it would appear on this blog

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 6:04 pm
Yob, Gab, Rudi, calm down, you three. Fuck off, SteveC, you self-righteous time-server. You’re about to be unemployed.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 6:05 pm
SteveC
I was soooo wrong what can I say.

Bracing for power bill hit

“The Federal Government’s plans to include a one-off insert on the impact of the federal carbon tax on electricity for inclusion in all electricity bills in Australia from July 1 is all very well, but that is it, just a one-off event.”

just a one-off event: why, what do they want to hide, the savings?

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 6:13 pm
So there’s only room for pro-abortion atheists on the Cat?

Sure, why should we waste our time arguing with retards.

If you aren’t an atheist, you’re as gullible as a small child. Deal with it.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:17 pm
I’m an atheist and I think late term abortions are fucked up.

Can I still post here?

Abu Chowdah

17 Jun 12 at 6:19 pm
What about traditional Buddhists? Are they retards too? Does this mean they cannot post at the Cat either?

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:22 pm
Anti-abortion bible thumpers taking over the cat bit by bit. Soon there will be no place for libertarians in Oz blogging.

Fme but you’re a pig ignorant turd Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 6:22 pm
FMD Yobbo, missus knock you back? Deal with it.

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 6:23 pm
Why take the risk and piss the big guy off if he exists, yobbo.

You never buy insurance in a poker game? You’re being risky and very silly.

Jc

17 Jun 12 at 6:24 pm
They can post Gab, but as far as I am concerned it’s open season on god-botherers and their ilk here. I don’t want to see the best blog in Australia taken over by people who believe in fairy tales.

Be prepared to defend your childish beliefs.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:24 pm
Be prepared to defend your childish beliefs.

It’s quite evident who the emotional retard is here.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 6:26 pm
but as far as I am concerned it’s open season on god-botherers and their ilk here.

as it has always been.

Silly me, I thought this blog was the last bastion for all opinions and views.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:29 pm
You never buy insurance in a poker game? You’re being risky and very silly.

There’s no insurance in poker, and no, buying in insurance in Blackjack is always a losing proposition.

Why take the risk and piss the big guy off if he exists, yobbo.

It’s obvious he doesn’t JC. Unless you think he is a racist old goat who only revealed himself to white people.

Asian and African people obviously aren’t part of god’s plan since he restricted his activities on Earth to a small area of the levant.

It’s a fairy story made up by primitive people. If you believe that, why do you not believe in Unicorns, fairies, Santa Claus and leprechauns?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:30 pm
Silly me, I thought this blog was the last bastion for all opinions and views.

Stupid opinions and views have never been tolerated here. It’s time that stupid religious beliefs met the same fate.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
Bolt’s mockery of Tony Burke today was gold.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 6:31 pm
What makes me laugh is time and time again those who have no religious faith are the one who constantly bring up religion. They’re the ones who seem to preach what can and cannot be written here.

Children.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:33 pm
Gab, it’s only religious people who want abortion outlawed, since it’s only religious faith that enables them to ignore the science involved. When you are using scriptures from the bible to justify government policy you are a step away from the loony bin.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:40 pm
I’m staggered by your ignorance, Yob. And especially by your all-knowing smugness about how the system works.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 6:40 pm
The right to life is not a stupid religious belief Yobbo.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 6:42 pm
it’s only religious people who want abortion outlawed,

Absolute fallacy. But keep talking as you make me laugh.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:43 pm
Yobbo a nasty git with an obviously limited IQ can apparently deride some of the greatest minds in human civilization past and present as “god botherers” and “primative people”

What break-taking delusional stupidity.

Yobbo’s problem isn’t that he’s an atheist.

I have no problem with that.

It’s that Yobbo is a turd.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 6:44 pm
It’s a fallacy is it Gab? How many “pro-life” atheists do you think there are?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:45 pm
You know, I’ve never actually listened to Kristina Keneally before. Watched her on Bolt – didn’t realise how dumb and vacuous she was.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 6:45 pm
Would your opinion be different if your mother aborted you Yob? I know silly question but then again not as stupid as your attitude towards killing ~~babies~~ human beings.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
You can’t even spell “primitive”, despite it being written a few posts up.

You are the prime example of a god-bothering imbecile, this site has been much worse for your presence.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
How many “pro-life” atheists do you think there are?

I know of five, so it’s a good bet there are more.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
last post directed at JamesK obviously.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:47 pm
It’s a fallacy is it Gab? How many “pro-life” atheists do you think there are?

Christopher Hitchens was one.

Yet another superior intellect who happened to be an atheist just not a mouth-foaming ugly radical secularist thug like Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 6:48 pm
Look at them all coming out of the woodwork.

This is what I am talking about when I say that this site has become infested with god-bothering paleoconservatives and is rapidly losing its Libertarian identity.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:49 pm
didn’t realise how dumb and vacuous she was.

She’s no different to Sarah HY, or roxon or Gillard. It’s not like any of them operate rationally or even think ahead of the curve.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:49 pm
You are the prime example of a god-bothering imbecile, this site has been much worse for your presence.

*yawn*

What a sick puppy you are Yobbo.

I’m actually enjoying watching you vomit your pet delusional and emotional mouth-foaming hatreds yet again for all to see.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 6:50 pm
Look at them all coming out of the woodwork.

LOL Yobbo sees the religious everywhere. Under your bed too?

and is rapidly losing its Libertarian identity.

Is the “identity” so easy to loose? I thought Libertarians were made of sterner stuff than that.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:52 pm
i find most people seem very respectful here about religious beliefs or non-beliefs (other stuff may be not so much!)

apart from P.patton who kept saying Xianty and for some reason i felt upset by that.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 6:55 pm
this site has become infested with god-bothering paleoconservatives

Libertarians are forbidden from belonging to a religious faith? Even Judaism?

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 6:55 pm
The very word “faith” means an antipathy to scientific evidence. They are free to believe it if they want, but we’re also free to regard them as imbeciles.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 6:58 pm
The very word “faith” means an antipathy to scientific evidence.

Well, of course you’re correct. Never in the history of mankind has there ever been a scientist who had religious faith.

You’re a scream. Does Sinclair pay you for this comedy routine?

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 7:01 pm
Libertarians are forbidden from belonging to a religious faith? Even Judaism?

The irony is that the greatest group of practical libertarians ever on the face of the planet – the founding fathers of the USA – to a man were theists.

Most religious but the rest with private faith in a universal principal driver at the least.

I’d normally wish good luck to an atheist.

The problem with Yobbo is his nasty bigotry.

I’m not going to tolerate it.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:04 pm
Yobbo is just another one of Richard Dawkins’ ~~love~~ hate children.

Your hate for anyone who talks about religion is very obvious.Were you abused by a priest when you were young? Failed the catechism exam? The JW’s knocked on your door too early one morning? Your first girlfriend dropped you because you couldn’t speak in tongues?

Your a sad man Yobbo. Get over it.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 7:05 pm
The very word “faith” means an antipathy to scientific evidence

Show us that definition blockhead

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:05 pm
This is what I am talking about when I say that this site has become infested with god-bothering paleoconservatives and is rapidly losing its Libertarian identity.

It’s definitely taken a swing in that direction over the last couple of years. I’m comfortable with it, as I”m sure much of the rest of the occasional readership is as well. However, we show a lot of respect and tolerance to the Christian element, generally leaving abortion, marriage and faith-based stuff alone. Conservatives should appreciate this, and perhaps acknowledge and reciprocate a little. Libertarianism is certainly a minority but it gets traction. Paleoconservatism isn’t clearly defined from what I can see. I think both sides would benefit from a synergy between he two rather than conflict, but probably moreso the Paleoconservatives.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 7:10 pm
So Ron Paul is a conservative is he John Mc?

Show me where I’ve advanced a religious barrow?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:12 pm
OMGaia! Look at all these pro-life atheists!

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 7:12 pm
Does Sinclair pay you for this comedy routine?

I’m just eating popcorn like everyone else.

Sinclair Davidson

17 Jun 12 at 7:12 pm
“faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things unseen”

Scientists exercise faith everytime they conduct an experiment or hypothesise a theory.

I have faith that science can prove Yobbo is a dickhead.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 7:17 pm
Your hate for anyone who talks about religion is very obvious.Were you abused by a priest when you were young?

No Splat, but lots of people were.

In case you hadn’t noticed, the world has been in a state of religious war for the last 11 years. Why would any reasonable person defend it?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:18 pm
The irony is that the greatest group of practical libertarians ever on the face of the planet – the founding fathers of the USA – to a man were theists.

Sure they were. But they were also very practical, rational ones.

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. – Thomas Jefferson (1781)

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 7:19 pm
Why would any reasonable person defend it?

Are you so utterly delusional that you believe yourself to be “reasonable” Yobbo?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:20 pm
Sure they were. But they were also very practical, rational ones.

Presumably you thought I thought they were unreasonable John Mc?

Is that it?

I ask again show me where I pushed a religious barrow.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:22 pm
Are you so utterly delusional that you believe yourself to be “reasonable” Yobbo?

I believe myself to be far more reasonable than anyone who believes that there is a fairy in the sky who created the universe, yes.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:23 pm
I believe myself to be far more reasonable than anyone who believes that there is a fairy in the sky who created the universe, yes.

Good luck, Yob.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 7:27 pm
I believe myself to be far more reasonable than anyone who believes that there is a fairy in the sky who created the universe, yes.

Tell us all about people who have faith in “a fairy in the sky who created the universe” Yobbo, you sad pathetic fuck.

Which religion?

Name it and give evidence that that is that particular religion’s theology.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:27 pm
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvGene.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:31 pm
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:32 pm
perhaps Yobbo is sorting through the religious stuff and ideas, just like everyone does at some stage and trying to make sense of chaotic world, it’s hard going

candy

17 Jun 12 at 7:32 pm
Every time i read quotes by Jefferson I’m overwhelmed by his brilliance. The American dream for which those patriots risked their lives has been corrupted to such an extent that it’s only the brilliance of the Founding Fathers through the words of the American constitution that keeps the show on the road:

To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. . .I place economy among the first and most important of republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. – President Thomas Jefferson

(and maybe just a bit of the independent spirit that still lives in the American heart).

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 7:35 pm
the world has been in a state of religious war for the last 11 years.

The world? I take that to be a teeny tweeny bit of an exageration Yob. Perhaps some despots who use religion as a cloak but the whole world engaging in religious warfare I think not.

You say for the last 11 years? Is that a reference to 9/11? If so can you explain how your hate towards ‘God botherers’ over their concern for aborted humans fits in with the war on terror?

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 7:36 pm
Yobbo-the-Dimwitted hyperlinks a copy of Genesis by way of reply.

Genesis says nothing about “a fairy in the sky”.

Are there further hyperlinks to be expected from the dimwitted one p’haps?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:37 pm
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What’s this got to do with “a fairy in the sky”, Yobbo?

Give us an acoount of the Big Bang Yobbo, you nasty twerp.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:39 pm
What’s the difference between a fairy and a god, James?

Ancient celts considered fairies to be gods and goddesses. Are you saying their religion was wrong?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:40 pm
hahahahaha! the atheist obsessed with religion. I wish I was as devout.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 7:42 pm
So God is in the sky now Yobbo?

How do you know that’s where it lives,(you utter fool)?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:45 pm
Yes, how ridiculous to be wary of and interested in an ideology that has resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of people.

Do you reserve similar disdain for people who studied communism?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 7:46 pm
You quoted biblical scripture Yob not Celtic folkfore when you compared God to a fairy in the sky.

Don’t weasel your way out of the question.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 7:48 pm
I love Sundays, golf in the mornin, beer and cooking in the arvo, a bit of footy on the teev and now THIS!!

This truly is a magnificent country.

Jumpnmcar

17 Jun 12 at 7:48 pm
The ideology of those that cause the death of at least 100,000,000 non-combatants in the twentieth century alone was atheism Yobbo.

Aren’t you ashamed of your fellow atheists, Yobbo?

How could you even pretend to be an atheist?

You genocidal murderer

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:49 pm
Are you in Asia at the moment Sam?

Tal

17 Jun 12 at 7:50 pm
Gab, it’s only religious people who want abortion outlawed, since it’s only religious faith that enables them to ignore the science involved. When you are using scriptures from the bible to justify government policy you are a step away from the loony bin.

Ron Paul is against abortion, as is Judge Napolitano. According to you they’re not welcome in your little “libertarian” club.

I think the Libertarian movement being hijacked by born again Nu-Atheists is a far bigger danger than a few noisy catholics and conservatives.

twostix

17 Jun 12 at 7:50 pm
Liked you heaps until now, Yob. But you’ve become a laughing stock.

Tom

17 Jun 12 at 7:51 pm
Hey a religious argument.

I’m in.

What’s this got to do with “a fairy in the sky”, Yobbo?

Well James, the fairy in sky is the god who reportedly created heaven and earth. Do you really believe that Genesis is an accurate account of the beginning of the universe?

Seriously?

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 7:57 pm
I think the Libertarian movement being hijacked by born again Nu-Atheists is a far bigger danger than a few noisy catholics and conservatives.

I have been very quite eating my popcorn,thank you!

I love Sundays, golf in the mornin, beer and cooking in the arvo, a bit of footy on the teev and now THIS!!

lol

Rudiau

17 Jun 12 at 7:58 pm
reportedly

Who ‘reported’ the nonsense that “the fairy in sky is the god who reportedly created heaven and earth” jupes?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 7:59 pm
I believe your disdain for theists outweighs any I have for people who believe differently. Funny thing is, you’re a believer too! If you didn’t believe then why are you so obsessed? lol

So to sum up, Yobbo has declared:

1. There are no scientists who are also theists
2. Only atheists are pro-choice
3. Libertarians literally dissolve when those “bible-thumpers” express an opinion on this here blog.
4. The “religious” will ban abortions.

All this relgious hoo-ha started today with Yobbos remark about abortions. With well over 40 million abortions per year for 30 years (these are conservative figures), I’d say the “religious ones” haven’t a hope in gaia of banning abortions.

The hilarity is the atheists are the ones who continually remark here on the subject of religion.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 7:59 pm
5. Theists are the only ones pro-life.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:02 pm
an ideology that has resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of people.

Words from a former athiest that Yobbo should read.

To deny that every human – every human – went through the prenatal stages of human life including the division of cells and all embryo stages can be seen as nothing short of dishonest. To claim the moral authority to determine which stage of human life they think is acceptable to kill is an onerous claim. The idea that Atheism is more empathetic is absurd, unless the value of human life is discounted in advance, and the Atheist is elevated beyond his actual position as just another human, not a moral judge or determinor of life and death for other innocent humans.

No excuse can defeat the fact that human life always starts with cell division and that killing those cells kills a human life at that particular stage. This is not defeated by any appeal to the condition of the mother, the ability of the embryo to feel pain, or any other rationalized permission to kill the human at that stage, and only in a triage situation can such decisions be made which would kill the embryo or mother with moral impunity.

The much vaunted Atheist “empathy” has not been extended to the more than 50,000,000 humans killed by abortion in the United States.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 8:04 pm
Who ‘reported’ the nonsense that “the fairy in sky is the god who reportedly created heaven and earth” jupes?

Good question.

Who wrote Genesis? I know it was inspired by God (aka the fairy in the sky) but who actually wrote it?

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:06 pm
reciprocate a little. Libertarianism is certainly a minority but it gets traction. Paleoconservatism isn’t clearly defined from what I can see. I think both sides would benefit from a synergy between he two rather than conflict, but probably moreso the Paleoconservatives.

The best agreement is to get the government the hell out of our lives.

Once we privatise schooling, decomission our soviet health system, abandon the ABC, reduce spending by half, secure the freedom to speak, clear out the corrupt leviathan bureaucracies in Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne, etc get our guns back, get our property rights back, secure contract law…

Once we achieve all of that to some degree then we should start bickering about the finer points of libertarianism vs conservatism.

I’ll note though that the items that many twenty something internet libertarians seem driven to tear up any agreement with conservatives over just happen to also be the top two leftist causes du-jour.

twostix

17 Jun 12 at 8:07 pm
There’s no insurance in poker, and no, buying in insurance in Blackjack is always a losing proposition.

A dude I know trades potential hands of others and sells/shorts the hands. He’s making around 5k a week from it he said as that part of the market is hugely skewed to buying and not selling. He tried to go in with me on a 50/50 split if I loaned him some money, but I didn’t think it was true. He’s still doing it though.

I was going to ask you about it.

It’s obvious he doesn’t JC. Unless you think he is a racist old goat who only revealed himself to white people.

He could be, Yobs. How the fuck do i know. I’m not taking the bet on the other side as Pascal was right. There’s nothing in on the side not to believe. You wouldn;t get punished not to believe.

It’s actually a form of free insurance.

Asian and African people obviously aren’t part of god’s plan since he restricted his activities on Earth to a small area of the levant.

Could be too. How do you know? For all you know he may actually only like white people. He doesn’t have to answer to anyone, right?

It’s a fairy story made up by primitive people. If you believe that, why do you not believe in Unicorns, fairies, Santa Claus and leprechauns?

You’re being ridiculous, yobs.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 8:12 pm
Good question.

Who wrote Genesis?

Are you suggesting that God is a fairy in the sky jupes?

If so, how on earth do you know this?

And how can you know that a god/fairy that you don’t believe can apparently live in the sky?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:16 pm
Once we privatise schooling, decomission our soviet health system, abandon the ABC, reduce spending by half, secure the freedom to speak, clear out the corrupt leviathan bureaucracies in Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne, etc get our guns back, get our property rights back, secure contract law…

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

This is what I say to the Austrian economists and their anarchy-capitialist followers. There is absolutely, positively nothing tangible to be gained by disowning each other over a lack of ideological purity. The key is to all pull in the same direction, one little step at a time.

If we all manage to get halfway to where we think we should be, it’s better than going nowhere and feeling smug that you didn’t compromise to those statist moderate/conservative/classical liberal/ types. This is a situation where something really is better than nothing.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 8:17 pm
You’re being ridiculous, yobs.

That’s not an answer to the question I posted, JC.

What is it about god that makes him more believable than unicorns or fairies?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:17 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Just for a change of pace… here

Grigory Potemkin

17 Jun 12 at 8:18 pm
Albert Einstein famously wanted “to know God’s thoughts…the rest are details”

He didn’t want to know the thoughts of any unicorn.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:20 pm
Could be too. How do you know? For all you know he may actually only like white people.

Then why would he make people he doesn’t like?

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:21 pm
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

AC/DC?

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 8:22 pm
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” – Albert Einstein

Again… no mention of unicorns.

Albert wasn’t really interested in unicorns no matter how hard unicorns endeavoured to catch his attention

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:23 pm
What is it about god that makes him more believable than unicorns or fairies?

I never really get into these discussions, Yobs.

I think cause and effect offers some explanation, but it’s really all based on faith. I can’t prove the existence of God in the same way I can’t disprove it.

I’ve never see the north pole either, but I’m more than pretty sure it’s there.

Can you for instance prove to me the earth is round. I don’t want you to send me back to a mathematician that solved the puzzle, but I want you do it yourself in your own words by proving to me the earth is round.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 8:26 pm
What is it about god that makes him more believable than unicorns or fairies?

When unicorns and fairies come out and claim to be God then we can have a discussion about believability Yob. Your lack of understanding faith knows no bounds.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 8:26 pm
JamesK, it’s a bit lame. Do you think Einstein read the Bible to understand the universe or prayed to God for insights into physics?

It’s perfectly acceptable to refer to ‘God’ when referring to the order in the universe, or the common human experience. Doesn’t mean you’re not an atheist. Plenty of us do it all the time. Religion was humanities first attempt at philosophy.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 8:27 pm
Are you suggesting that God is a fairy in the sky jupes?

Not really.

I’m suggesting that God is a figment of an ancient human’s imagination.

The fairy in the sky refers to the fact that he is something that can’t be seen – like a fairy – and he lives in a place called heaven – which according to Genesis is above the earth .e. in the sky.

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:27 pm
make that humanity’s

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 8:28 pm
JC: Here’s my problem with Pascal’s Wager…

Surely an omniscient god isn’t going to be fooled by someone who is only professing belief in him in order to hedge his bets on the afterlife.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:29 pm
I’ll note though that the items that many twenty something internet libertarians seem driven to tear up any agreement with conservatives over just happen to also be the top two leftist causes du-jour.

I’ll note that this is bullshit.

I don’t tell people if they pass my libertarian purity test or not. Everyone would fail for myself and (possibly) John Humphreys. I try however, to be inclusive and encourage social democrats and conservatives to see that liberty is the answer.

The level of bullshit spewing forth out of conservative commentators here right now is simply too much to bear. I normally do not talk myself up or even sell myself well but this is an outrage.

As someone who at a high personal expense on an unimpressive income in their mid 20′s (heh not any more) has helped organise people to run for the Senate and House of Reps in the most economically right wing party in the country, the only party that is for the list of things which you desire, I’d like to know exactly what you have done to think you have earned any sort of moral authority to slur me as a left wing operative. What you have said is disgusting, deeply hurtful and mind-blowingly wrong.

I’m shocked and chagrined. This is more insulting and damaging then when C.L said that I’m the inspiration for the green left to dictate on what terms religious celebrants will marry anyone who demands it against their will.

Please – despite having social democrat views from 15-19, if anyone can show me evidence that I am affiliated to any left wing movement, please show it and then slag me off.

If not, please cut the bullshit because you’re afraid to see a couple of homosexuals tonguelash each other.

Go ahead and slag me off. I’m not asking for people to break anonymity. I am asking for people to tell me where they get off before the denunciatory harangue begins.

.

17 Jun 12 at 8:29 pm
Not to mention that simply believing in God is not, in itself, enough to grant someone entry into heaven upon death (according to the gospels). So Pascal’s Wager is fundamentally flawed in its assumptions.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:31 pm
It’s perfectly acceptable to refer to ‘God’ when referring to the order in the universe, or the common human experience. Doesn’t mean you’re not an atheist.

‘Acceptable’ to who and says who?

So you don’t believe in God or more correctly you don’t believe in your conception of God.

How can you not believe in your own conception?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:32 pm
Then why would he make people he doesn’t like?

For the same reason he made people like Yob who don’t like him. Its called free will.

The only difference is that God still loves Yob but Yob hates him.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 8:34 pm
When unicorns and fairies come out and claim to be God then we can have a discussion about believability Yob

Are you saying that the reason you believe in god is that someone once said that they are god, and someone wrote that down?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:35 pm
He could be, Yobs. How the fuck do i know. I’m not taking the bet on the other side as Pascal was right. There’s nothing in on the side not to believe. You wouldn;t get punished not to believe.

Stop worrying, he will forgive you, see Isaiah 49: 14-16.

My contribution to all of this is that even if it is bollocks, Jesus was a cool dude. The most important bit of it all is the new commandment and we should follow it even if he wasn’t a real historical figure.

.

17 Jun 12 at 8:35 pm
Not to mention that simply believing in God is not, in itself, enough to grant someone entry into heaven upon death (according to the gospels). So Pascal’s Wager is fundamentally flawed in its assumptions.

Actually Jews believe that as well Yobbo.

Moreover non believers are not denied entry into the kingdom of heaven.

It revolves around living a good life as far as i understand.

In fact in a sense the reverse is true as the onus is harder for those who are taught the tenets of Judaism and Christianity

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:36 pm
Then why would he make people he doesn’t like?

According to the bible, he made them so his chosen people could keep them as slaves and concubines, and practice their swordsmanship on them.

What a swell guy.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:37 pm
I see on the news tonight that the Christian churches are being taken to task for daring to address their flocks regarding gay marriage. Before Yobbo and others forget the basic facts, religious people have codes of behaviour, and often quite clear and long-held positons regarding all sorts of things including the many and various human failings.
Abortion and homosexuality are not raised because the churches are, like green or “idependent” members of parliament, playing politics. They are raised because, like other religious groups inlcuding the Islamics, it is for them basic scripture. The politics is all on the side of those who seek to deny them their religious stances.

blogstrop

17 Jun 12 at 8:38 pm
Not to mention that simply believing in God is not, in itself, enough to grant someone entry into heaven upon death (according to the gospels). So Pascal’s Wager is fundamentally flawed in its assumptions.

That’s true, it’s not, but it’s better than throwing away the key to the door. At least you may get a hearing.

Yobbo, if I ever hear you banging on the door, I’d let you in, but you’d better hope it’s my turn on the door that day.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 8:39 pm
A further problem with Pascal’s wager: What if you choose to believe in the wrong god?

What if after you die, your years of belief in a false god caused Vishnu to condemn you to the lower worlds in the afterlife?

So again it’s not true that there is no cost and only benefits to belief in god.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:40 pm
In fact in a sense the reverse is true as the onus is harder for those who are taught the tenets of Judaism and Christianity

Really? Then count me as an emphatic non-believer then.

Fuck me, this is eternity we’re talking about here and I’m not taking any chances.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 8:41 pm
‘Acceptable’ to who and says who?

Acceptable to smart people everywhere who are engaged in rational debate about the nature of the universe and the human experience.

Don’t’ try that shit on with me and then reference Einstein using the term ‘God’ as some sort of argument for theism. And don’t believe in any fucking god and I don’t’ give a shit if you do, nor could I be fucked talking to you about what fucking religious basis makes you sleep cozy at night. Seriously, you’re worse than Dover Beach and that’s saying something.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 8:42 pm
Katy Perry parody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkNC-JxGpNg

coz

17 Jun 12 at 8:43 pm
the new commandment

Love one another? Yep that’s a beauty. Pity the peoples of this planet don’t follow it.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:44 pm
Moreover non believers are not denied entry into the kingdom of heaven.

It revolves around living a good life as far as i understand.

Oh no. That’s not what Matthew reckons:

18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:44 pm
A further problem with Pascal’s wager: What if you choose to believe in the wrong god?

Yea, but it’s still in of itself better than than not believing, according to Pascal. You may believe in the wrong head honcho, in which case you’re fucked. However you’re fucked totally the other way.

What if after you die, your years of belief in a false god caused Vishnu to condemn you to the lower worlds in the afterlife?

I’ll start the climb again then. At least you’re not 100% gonsky. That’s a silly example.

How many times have you lost at poker and then come straggled all the way back. I do that shit in trading all the time.

So again it’s not true that there is no cost and only benefits to belief in god.

In terms of Pascal it’s a one sided bet you’re taking, for no chance of getting to the loot.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 8:46 pm
Love one another? Yep that’s a beauty. Pity the peoples of this planet don’t follow it.

I don’t love Muslims. Do you?

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:46 pm
According to the bible, he made them so his chosen people could keep them as slaves and concubines, and practice their swordsmanship on them.

Really?

Which prophets did God tell which persons “he didn’t like” for those prophets to practice their “swordsmanship” on, Yobbo?

You must realise that many here think you’re a pitiful excuse for a rational human being?

Yeah?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:46 pm
lol Some people are worried about what happens to them after they die. Concern yourself with what you do while still alive and the death takes care of itself.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:47 pm
And god said : Let there be light.

And it fairly well fuckn SHONE

Pickles

17 Jun 12 at 8:47 pm
As King Herod said to Jesus

“if you think you’re so cool
walk across my swimming pool”

but he didn’t need to, he was cool enuf.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 8:50 pm
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 8:51 pm
I’m agnostic but all the women I make love to seem to be devout.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 8:51 pm
We are reincarnated many times over until we learn the lessons. This is Earth School. First we arrive as male. Then, when we learn the many valuable lessons, and live a good life, we are reincarnated as female.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:52 pm
If you’re a cool dude, you don’t need to show it. Or even ask.

That’s probably the best song from JCSS. I think the early 1990s Australian production was very good.

.

17 Jun 12 at 8:52 pm
Fuck me, this is eternity we’re talking about here and I’m not taking any chances.

You’re safe JC.

You have the right initials and presumably you’re a nice guy who did the right thing by his family and enjoyed life.

I doubt it’s difficult.

The bible also says the kingdom of Heaven is within.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 8:53 pm
If this is the best that can be directed at us, we can look forward to another 2000 years.

dover_beach

17 Jun 12 at 8:53 pm
In Breaking News at The Australian:
Stolen Sausage Dog In Carjacker’s Hands

blogstrop

17 Jun 12 at 8:55 pm
Anybody seen Obama lately?

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:56 pm
Fuck me, this is eternity we’re talking about here and I’m not taking any chances.

JC you have bigger problems. Your revelation that you like hip hop has made me very worried for your soul.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 8:56 pm
Obama’s take-away order got hijacked?!

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:57 pm
Which prophets did God tell which persons “he didn’t like” for those prophets to practice their “swordsmanship” on, Yobbo?

Dunno about swordsmanship, but he certainly didn’t like the Gypos:

11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:57 pm
If you play hip-hop backwards, you can hear satan scream for ear plugs.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 8:58 pm
And god said : Let there be light.

And it fairly well fuckn SHONE

Was that before or after he made the sun, moon and stars Pickles?

Seriously.

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 8:59 pm
JamesK, my good chap: i seem to remember you saying you were atheist at some stage – but perhaps it was James of somewhere else – apologies if i be wrong.
but i be sure there was an atheist james somewhere on this blog?

candy

17 Jun 12 at 8:59 pm
Athiests I can abide but Dawkins drones like Yob take hate to a level that rational discussion will never cut through.

I’m fine that you hate God Yobbo go back to reading The God Delusion safe in the knowledge you have convinced all of us to your way of thinking.

I’m off to ask my personal Skyfairy why I wasted an hour of my life on you.

Splatacrobat

17 Jun 12 at 9:00 pm
And in useful news, Centrebet has the Coaltion/ALP at 1.15/5.00.

You can’t even vote on Tony Abbott for PM. The leader is KRudd (at 2.50, Gillard at 2.75). Can one of the gamblers tell me why that’s the case? Is that because TA is a dead ringer for PM and his odds would be 1.00? Why wouldn’t they be 1.15 like the Libs above?

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:02 pm
Democrats / Republicans : 1.52 / 2.48

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:03 pm
That’s the market for ALP leadership not PM.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 9:03 pm
(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Are you saying God doesn’t like furriners, Yobbo?

Where does it say that?

Which pope/bishops and rabbis say that slavery is okeydokey?

You do realise that idea of the innate inalienable rights of man come from judeo-christianity?

And where does it say you can practice your swordsmanship on foreigners?

Or was that yet another of your fanciful deductions?

And how about keyboardmanship?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:04 pm
JamesK, my good chap: i seem to remember you saying you were atheist at some stage – but perhaps it was James of somewhere else – apologies if i be wrong.
but i be sure there was an atheist james somewhere on this blog?

No.

I said I wasn’t religious Candy.

Specifically I’m a catholic by tribe rather than belief.

But I support the Church as a force for good and a worthy source of right teaching on mysticism

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
Yea, but it’s still in of itself better than than not believing, according to Pascal. You may believe in the wrong head honcho, in which case you’re fucked. However you’re fucked totally the other way.

Yeah, but if you believe in the wrong one or ones, the real one or ones may get angry. If you don’t believe in Yahweh, for instance, he will visit your iniquity upon your children to the third and fourth generation.

Personally, as an apatheist, I don’t care about the question, “Is there a God?” The question isn’t sufficiently meaningful for me to care about it.

That means I have an “out” by the way. If I ever did get challenged by a god, I could just say, “sorry, the notion of god wasn’t well defined enough for me to believe one way or the other.” If God is rational, then he or she would be satisfied with that I imagine.

Dangph

17 Jun 12 at 9:08 pm
That’s the market for ALP leadership not PM.

Sorry, I get it. It says “Prime Minister at Next Election”. I guess that’s not the same as Prime Minister after Next Election!

So the money is on KRudd knifing the ‘rangar. Cool.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:10 pm
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

Yes, Yobs.. and I had Metro my carbon slave for about a year all up before the wretched little bastard took off into the hinterland and unable to locate him.

He turned his fridge off and other appliances every time I had the heating or cooling on to reduce emissions and make my life more comfortable while earning carbon credits. The Almighty liked thi, as it saved da planet and gave Metro reason to live. Technically he was my (carbon) slave, but what of it? There’s no possible reason I would be punished at the pearly gates for having Metro-Mick as my personal carbon slave. We did a lot of good all round. So slaving isn’t a sin, as you gotta know the type of slaving that’s being done.

Where is that little bastard?

JC

17 Jun 12 at 9:12 pm
Anybody seen Obama lately?

The Darkness cannot exist in the presence of Light.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:13 pm
If I ever did get challenged by a god, I could just say, “sorry, the notion of god wasn’t well defined enough for me to believe one way or the other.” If God is rational, then he or she would be satisfied with that I imagine.

Yeah, right. Does that sound like the shit that flies in the Bible?You’re Lucifer’s bitch – and not even his favourite one – with that response.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:14 pm
But is seems sausage dogs can escape Obama’s kitchen.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:15 pm
You’re Lucifer’s bitch – and not even his favourite one – with that response.

Judgmental ass.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:16 pm
Yes, Yobs.. and I had Metro my carbon slave for about a year

JC now you are tap dancing. Yobbo has presented biblical evidence that God condones slavery. You have no comeback.

jupes

17 Jun 12 at 9:17 pm
Funniest thread evah.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:17 pm
Well we are talking ‘Judgement Day’ here, Gab. I think it’s safe to assume from that title there will be some judging going on.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
JC you have bigger problems. Your revelation that you like hip hop has made me very worried for your soul.

Some of it is okay. And dude, I always like reading the fuckers bios. There’s the invariable weapons charge with TI on charges of having several machine guns.

And then of course there’s Rick Ross who at one stage was my favorite until we found out he was a jail guard.

Rick blew $1 million at a lap dance joint in Miami and rolled up to the place in a white Bentley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwxu-_Fsy6g

What regular entertainers do this shit I ask?

Lord I wish i was there.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 9:19 pm
JC now you are tap dancing. Yobbo has presented biblical evidence that God condones slavery. You have no comeback.

Of course the good lord does. It was God in fact that found me Metro Mick and had him become my carbon slave.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 9:20 pm
Well we are talking ‘Judgement Day’ here,

You’re all mostly talking crap.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:21 pm
And then of course there’s Rick Ross who at one stage was my favorite until we found out he was a jail guard.

Thankyou.

.

17 Jun 12 at 9:22 pm
“said I wasn’t religious Candy.

Specifically I’m a catholic by tribe rather than belief.

But I support the Church as a force for good and a worthy source of right teaching on mysticism”

okay.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 9:24 pm
In the “Lil Wayne version” of 9 Piece, the chick in the back of the car has terrible gun safety. See about 0.30-0.31.

.

17 Jun 12 at 9:25 pm
More from Hammy at the trop.

The conservatives I know are invariably rather dense, and devoid of any depth of thinking capablity, as well as uneducated. Almost universally the university-educated people I know have a correct attitude to political issues.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 9:29 pm
Geez they must be dense if they make Hammy feel smart.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:30 pm
Of course a real benevolent god who loved his creations would never condone slavery. Which is why the bible is such good evidence that he never existed. The proclamations of “god” throughout are indicative of nothing except the views of men at the time.

The fact that “god” changes his mind about several things from the time of the old testament to new testament is further proof of either his non-existence. An omniscient, infallible god would be fairly unlikely to change his position on governance in the space of just a few thousand years.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:31 pm
The shining was concomitant with the stars of which the sun is but one. The moon came after the earth. In any event the job was right by late Saturday.

Pickles

17 Jun 12 at 9:31 pm
Maybe they’re cardboard cut-outs and Hammy just hasn’t noticed.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:31 pm
proof of ~~either~~ his non-existence.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:31 pm
Of course a real benevolent god who loved his creations would never condone slavery.

God doesn’t condone slavery. Humans do.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:32 pm
wonder what happened with kelly liddle and his new taxi business.

hope it’s going okay for him.

candy

17 Jun 12 at 9:37 pm
Of course a real benevolent god who loved his creations would never condone slavery. Which is why the bible is such good evidence that he never existed

You write puerile drivel without even a patina of reflective thought Yobbo.

The poor more often willingly went into servitude in the ancient world.

Deuteronomy 15 has a very instructive passage regarding setting a slave free:

If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free. And when you release him, do not send him away empty-handed. Supply him liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to him as the LORD your God has blessed you. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.

But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, then take an awl and push it through his ear lobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your maidservant.

Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because his service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired hand. And the LORD your God will bless you in everything you do

.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:44 pm
God doesn’t condone slavery. Humans do.

Incorrect, Gab. Jesus Christ who, according to the bible and all christians, was the human manifestation of god, condones slavery in the bible:

“The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

Luke 12:45-48

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:44 pm
Shorter Jesus: If a slave doesn’t do his master’s bidding, he should be beaten as punishment. Yay Jesus!

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:45 pm
James: The passage you quoted refers specifically to Hebrew slaves. Slaves from other tribes didn’t get it so good.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:48 pm
Yobbo has presented biblical evidence that God condones slavery.

Depending on he conditions, slavery is better than the alternative; ie., starvation. In the OT, God permitted but recommended against slavery, as polygamy, and even the permission was conditional; slaves had to be freed after seven years and the Israelites were not to sell their children into slavery. In addition, slaves were to be protected from abuse, as in “an eye for an eye”.

Post industrialisation, there was no possible justification for slavery, and as a result Christians well conversant with both the OT and the NT stamped it out.

are indicative of nothing except the views of men at the time.

Actually you’re pretty close. The law and the prophets restrict or challenge human behaviour at the time of writing, which is why there is no commentary on the use of iPhones but specific rules for the treatment of men who have their testicles crushed while handling livestock.

wreckage

17 Jun 12 at 9:48 pm
A servant is not a slave. And God does not condone slavery. Slavery is a man-made concept.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:49 pm
At the time Jesus said that Gab, “servants” were indeed slaves. They were not wage earners, they were the property of the household.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:52 pm
Of course a real benevolent god who loved his creations would never condone slavery.

You really are an inane child Yobbo.

Why would God condone murder, genital mutilation or fuckwits like you to exist either?

Suffering is intrinsic to Life.

This has been willfully demeaned into an intellectually low rent drivel typical of Yobbo commentary.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:52 pm
At the time Jesus said that Gab, “servants” were indeed slaves. They were not wage earners, they were the property of the household.

Wow…..

Heh … deep man…. ya know?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:53 pm
Depending on he conditions, slavery is better than the alternative; ie., starvation.

Absolutely not true. The alternative to slavery is paid employment, which we know thanks to the work of economists in the 1800′s to be a preferable economic situation to all concerned.

Now, you can forgive people in 2000BC for not understanding the economic advantages of emancipation, but you certainly cannot forgive the supposedly omniscient Abrahamic god for not understanding basic labour economics.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:56 pm
then take an awl and push it through his ear lobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life.

Ahh, yes, the old awl-through-the-earlobe-into-the-door invitation to a life of servitude. Why do we let these quaint little traditions go?!!

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 9:56 pm
Summation of JamesK’s rebuttals in the last hour or so:

You’re wrong Yobbo. P.S. Fuck Shit Poo

What an intellectual giant.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 9:57 pm
Yobbo, that’s a parable and written in the language of the times. There was slavery then, there were servants too. What has this parable to do with your fallacy that “God condones slavery”?

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 9:58 pm
but you certainly cannot forgive the supposedly omniscient Abrahamic god for not understanding basic labour economics

How droll.

For a nanosecond some fool might believe you said something intelligent Yobbo

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 9:59 pm
45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Luke 12:45-48

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:00 pm
Yobbo, that’s a parable and written in the language of the times. There was slavery then, there were servants too.

Gab, if the servants were free workers who were wage earners, why would their “master” have the right to beat them for not working?

Stop clutching at straws.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:00 pm
…….but you certainly cannot forgive the supposedly omniscient Abrahamic god for not understanding basic labour economics.

But how do you arrive at that conclusion? You could also argue that it was beyond them to even consider the existence of such a place as ours because they were several steps from getting to that point.

It would be like us thinking of concepts 2000 years from now…. in 100 years people say there could be legal arguments about whether life exists for machines and if they have the same protections. That’s extremely difficult for us to even consider.

I’m not getting into an argument about the existence of god though as I’m not really that interested.

I think you’re making assumptions about standards then and now.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:01 pm
Gab, if the servants were free workers who were wage earners, why would their “master” have the right to beat them for not working?

Howard’s WorkChoices.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 10:02 pm
In context, shall we?

40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”

42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

Luke 12:40-48

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:03 pm
JC I think you are misunderstanding my point. Of course I do not expect humans living 4000 years ago to understand modern economics just as I do not expect anyone alive today to predict what the world will be like in 2000 years.

But I would expect an omniscient supernatural being who created the universe to have a pretty good idea. And apparently, he did not. Which as I said, is proof that no such supernatural, omniscient being exists. Only the fanciful tales of men.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:04 pm
Stop clutching at straws.

You first.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:05 pm
To be more precise:

If he exists, he is not omniscient, therefore he is not the god described in the bible and worshipped by christians.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:07 pm
Go ahead and slag me off. I’m not asking for people to break anonymity. I am asking for people to tell me where they get off before the denunciatory harangue begins.

Don’t be precious dot.

Nobody is calling you, or has ever called you a “left wing operative” and I’m not “slagging you off”.

You’re just a little naive is all.

For example, you (willfully at this point) take at face value that the current leftist push for “gay marriage” isn’t going to end in the same left using it as another battering ram against christianity.

A real world example is given, of just that happening, and you lay your hopes on the law saving your arse. And when it doesn’t then what? You’ll join all the other steamrolled people in history who naively believed the left when they said they were doing something in the name of freedom.

Now if you want the state out of marriage and anybody able to marry anybody who’ll sign a contract with them then you’ll find lots of conservatives who are down with that.

But that’s not what the current gay marriage issue is about at all.

twostix

17 Jun 12 at 10:08 pm
What an intellectual giant.

Yobbo you are a fuckwit.

This is your latest infantile rationale for your perennial hate-spewing:

Now, you can forgive people in 2000BC for not understanding the economic advantages of emancipation, but you certainly cannot forgive the supposedly omniscient Abrahamic god for not understanding basic labour economics.

Jewish manumission laws

Judaism was one of the oldest religions to legislate laws of manumission.[citation needed] Manumission of a Canaanite slave was seen as a religious conversion, and involved a second baptism. The Talmud made many rulings which had the effect of making manumission easier and more likely. The costly giving of gifts, on the occasion of manumission, is mandated in the Bible related to the automatic 7th-year manumission. The price to buy freedom was set as the total fee for a hired servant, over the outstanding period of service. The classical rabbis changed the price to be the original price for which the servant was purchased, pro-rated for the amount of service already worked. If the servant had become weak or sickly, and worth less in the market, the price of freedom was to be reduced further. The rabbis ruled the price could never by higher than the original one, regardless of any increase in strength or skills by a servant

Your rationale and pitiful excuses for argument are infantile and that giving infantilism a bad name, Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:09 pm
But I would expect an omniscient supernatural being who created the universe to have a pretty good idea. And apparently, he did not. Which as I said, is proof that no such supernatural, omniscient being exists.

But he also had his limits in the sense that he is only able to speak to people of the time in a language they were able to understand.

God say knew about central banking at the time. He could have spoken about central banking and fractional reserve ratios but it would be like talking to a dog in paragraphs.

The point being that he spoke to them in a language they understood. What you’re saying doesn’t prove god didn’t understand modern economics.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
or there’s this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eE3dhys7J8

coz

17 Jun 12 at 10:11 pm
Yobbo ‘rationale:

Its an awful shame God didn’t give ancient peoples microwaves so they could cook without burning themselves.

If He really exists He must have known how they were made………..

Tools like Yobbo were created in ancient times too no doubt but were rather less well tolerated than the modern nongs

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:12 pm
Surely in the language of the time, people would have been able to understand “paying your workers cash instead of keeping them as slaves is a better way to do things. I know they weren’t far advanced but they did have currency and the ability to speak.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:13 pm
To be more precise:

If he exists, he is not omniscient, therefore he is not the god described in the bible and worshipped by christians.

That’s your belief and you’re entitled to it.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:14 pm
You still don’t understand the argument James, but at least you’re down to 1 profanity or insult per post.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:15 pm
James

look Yobs isn’t a tool or anything like that. He just despises religion and stuff like that. He’s actually a good guy.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:16 pm
Surely in the language of the time, people would have been able to understand “paying your workers cash instead of keeping them as slaves is a better way to do things. I know they weren’t far advanced but they did have currency and the ability to speak.

Surely a in the language of the time a social justice political party would have thrived Yobbo?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:16 pm
Surely in the language of the time, people would have been able to understand “paying your workers cash instead of keeping them as slaves is a better way to do things.

Jesus also said “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”. I don’t believe JC was put on this planet to discuss wages. That is left to ma to decide, to choose how to deal within the law at the time.

Love one another was more God’s thing.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:17 pm
It’s not a “belief” Gab. It’s a deduction based on evidence.

Choose 1:

A:) The bible is wrong.
B:) God is not omniscient.

Either way, the great big bunch of lies comes tumbling down.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:17 pm
For example, you (willfully at this point) take at face value that the current leftist push for “gay marriage” isn’t going to end in the same left using it as another battering ram against christianity.

Well put, TwoStix. That’s pretty what the current debate is actually about. That, and you will personallyl acknowledge my lifestyle as the same as yours or else we’ll get the law on your ass.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 10:18 pm
You still don’t understand the argument James, but at least you’re down to 1 profanity or insult per post.

Unfortunately I understand your inanity perfectly Yobbo.

If God is real he wouldn’t allow past and present peoples to suffer.

You are contemptibly stupid as well as contemptibly bigoted Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:18 pm
JamesK, your argument makes no sense.

Yobbo is saying simply this: The Bible condones slavery and other elements of bronze age morality because it was written in a bronze age culture, where there was no such thing as human rights, and women were chattell. We’ve since moved on.

Either the Bible is a moral guide written by an omniscient god, as useful today as it was then, or it is a work by human hands, and the “morals” therein outdated.

It’s not a smorgasboard where you can pick and choose bits you like vs. bits you don’t. You can’t claim that you know what’s moral based on the bible, and then know which bits of the Bible to follow because they are moral. That’s circular logic.

Quentin George

17 Jun 12 at 10:19 pm
Surely a in the language of the time a social justice political party would have thrived Yobbo?

I’m sure it would have James. As we all know, Jesus wasn’t really the son of god, because god does not exist.

He was a very effective socialist activist though.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:19 pm
You have tumbled anything down, Yobbo. You haven’t disproved anything to anyone. Now if you were the great Thomas Aquinas then I’d pay attention to what you were saying.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:19 pm
You haven’t…

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:20 pm
Surely in the language of the time, people would have been able to understand “paying your workers cash instead of keeping them as slaves is a better way to do things. I know they weren’t far advanced but they did have currency and the ability to speak.

But are you sure that slavery was the worst alternative available other than starving or being killed for stealing. There wasn’t much money around and it was mostly hand to mouth.

I don’t even think slavery meant what we think it meant. I think it was a form of organization for workers to be able to obtain food and shelter etc. It was mostly a barter economy.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:20 pm
NewsBusters has a good interview with Fr Robert Sirico – probably the most thoughtful libertarian writing in America today.

C.L.

17 Jun 12 at 10:20 pm
But..but Yobbo says you cannot be Catholic AND Libertarian!

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:21 pm
look Yobs isn’t a tool or anything like that. He just despises religion and stuff like that. He’s actually a good guy.

He’s a top bloke and it’s embarrassing that he has to defend an atheist perspective on Catallaxy.

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 10:22 pm
But..but Yobbo says you cannot be Catholic AND Libertarian!

No he doesn’t. Where does he say that?

John Mc

17 Jun 12 at 10:23 pm
You truly are a dunce, John m. Yobbo is not defending atheism, he’s attacking theism.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:23 pm
As we all know, Jesus wasn’t really the son of god, because god does not exist.

The royal ‘we’ Yobbo?

You use it often.

I really don’t think a fool like you should get away easily with the use of the royal ‘we’ Yobbo

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:23 pm
No he doesn’t. Where does he say that?

Anti-abortion bible thumpers taking over the cat bit by bit. Soon there will be no place for libertarians in Oz blogging.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 5:45 pm

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:25 pm
As we all know, Jesus wasn’t really the son of god, because god does not exist.

LOL stamp that foot! Clench those fists! Squeeze those eyes shut! There, you’re now in Kansas.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:25 pm
He’s a top bloke and it’s embarrassing that he has to defend an atheist perspective on Catallaxy.

He’a actually pig-ignorant fuckwit who’s happy to denigrate his fellow Cat readers for their personal faith.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:28 pm
Tim Blair – get used to seeing carbon surcharges.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/spirit_of_carbon/

I hope all businesses print a line for the great big new tax on all invoices. And I hope they refer to it as the Carbon Dioxide Tax.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:30 pm
JamesK, your argument makes no sense.

What argument?

I need no interpretation of Yobbo’s foul and disgusting bigotry from anyone least of all you Quentin

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:30 pm
But are you sure that slavery was the worst alternative available other than starving or being killed for stealing. There wasn’t much money around and it was mostly hand to mouth.

Like I said, it was proved later (around the mid-1800′s) that slavery was a major cause of poverty. A person living circa 50ad would not have known any better, but god would have.

Why then did he condone slavery?

The answer is: He never did. People living at the time did, and used their invention of a deity to justify their beliefs.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:34 pm
Circular argument based on your beliefs, not rationale.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:36 pm
Just repeat an earlier post in answer to Yobbo’s latest ‘insight’ at 10:34

You still don’t understand the argument James, but at least you’re down to 1 profanity or insult per post.

Unfortunately I understand your inanity perfectly Yobbo.

If God is real he wouldn’t allow past and present peoples to suffer.

You are contemptibly stupid as well as contemptibly bigoted Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:18 pm

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:37 pm
If God is real he wouldn’t allow past and present peoples to suffer

Which five year old said this?

There’s this thing called free will. Man is free to choose his actions, whether they be in line with the teachings of Christ or not.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:38 pm
However, we show a lot of respect and tolerance to the Christian element, generally leaving abortion, marriage and faith-based stuff alone.

That’s not been the recent experience. Certain people can’t shut up about abortion and marriage.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 10:39 pm
And people like SteveC never shut up about anything.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:40 pm
Again, James, you misunderstand the argument entirely. You keep attacking a strawman of your own construction. You really should just stick to the swear words, at least I can’t effectively rebut them.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:41 pm
Grigory, you know of course this is all your fault . The Emily’s List cartoons set Yobbo off.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:42 pm
Nobody is calling you, or has ever called you a “left wing operative” and I’m not “slagging you off”.

You’re just a little naive is all.

1. Yes they have.

2. Yes you clearly are now.

3. You have no moral backing to do so.

4. Your understanding of the law is deficient. The USSC and even the High Court here would overturn the decision. Marriage requires a ceremony therefore the WWI arguments about s 116 allowing such a law to prevail are invalid. If you are going to call someone naive, make sure you know more about the topic being debated than them.

.

17 Jun 12 at 10:44 pm
There are so many rules to being a libertarian these days. Not to mention all the forms they make you fill out.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 10:44 pm
Has the peak oil scaremongering reached its peak?

“The oil in the ground will run out some day. But as the discovery of proven reserves continues to significantly outpace the rate of extraction, the claims that we’re facing immediate shortages looks trashy. . . . So no. I’m not lying awake at night worrying about imminent peak oil. There’s plenty of extractable oil, and renewable energy will eventually supplement and replace it. But will politics get in the way of energy extraction? The United States has huge hydrocarbon reserves, yet regulation is preventing drilling and shipment, leaving America dependent on foreign oil.”

Via Insty.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:44 pm
The best interpretation I have seen of Genesis is Ricky Gervais – Animals. Doesn’t seem to be on youtube.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 10:47 pm
IT

All I am saying is that I have done more than write shit on a blog and it is very bloody rude to call me a lefty or a useless idiot when the LDP policy is actually fairly moderate (I’d like to change that) but it makes the Green left soil their pants.

I don’t exclude people, it is a stupid idea to declare that there are only “26 libertarians in Australia”.

Maybe it is just this awful Government but more and more people I know are basically declaring that they are libertarians or asking for a word that describes their view of non intervention in the economy and personal lives.

.

17 Jun 12 at 10:50 pm
That’s not been the recent experience. Certain people can’t shut up about abortion and marriage.

Shut up? You don’t have to even have a religious foundation to believe marriage is between a man and a woman or yanking out a kid out of w womb is bad shit. Both could easily be argued on purely libertarian grounds.

1. “Social inclusion” of gays in the marriage contract is simply having the state dictate what naturally progressed through human development.

2. Human beings, to libertarian are all precious life and should always be protected when vulnerable.

As for shutting up, how about shutting about fucking glimate change for a few days FFS.
You idiot steve C.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:51 pm
Over at the conservative media blog Newsbusters, Tom Blumer has unearthed an Oct. 14, 1987 AP story by Christopher Connell that asks, “Why do grown men and women shout at President Reagan?”

In the piece, Connell explains and justifies aggressive behavior by reporters that cover the White House.

“Grown men and women are shouting at President Reagan at the top of their lungs,” Connell wrote. “They do it for a living.”

Connell noted that the shouting even took place at ceremonies, but he ultimately blamed Reagan and his aides.

“Aides … have sharply curtailed opportunities for the press corps to engage the president under more civil circumstances,” the article states.

Yes but Obama and his love media are just far more precious these days.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:52 pm
Dot you are good bloke for a lefty. Hopefully with time you can change.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 10:52 pm
Again, James, you misunderstand the argument entirely. You keep attacking a strawman of your own construction. You really should just stick to the swear words, at least I can’t effectively rebut them.

I’ve described your pathetic excuse for rational thinking accurately Yobbo.

I’ve also correctly described your inanity and nastiness.

I’ll do it one more time for laughs.

Yobbo’s ‘thesis’:

God couldn’t possibly exist cos there’s suffering in the world

How could He allow slavery for example when Adam Smith enlightened us 4000 years later about which God would surely have known at the time?

How could he allow all those atheists to mass murder at least 100,000,000 million noncombatant peoples in the 20C alone?

Either He doesn’t exist or if He does exist he must be a real prick.

It’s the kind of thinking associated with an innocent 5 yo girl delivered with emotional venom of the head-spinning girl Regan from the The Exorcist

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:52 pm
Is Dot a Left Libertarian? But Dover told me no such category exists.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 10:55 pm
….venom of the head-spinning girl Regan from the The Exorcist

I saw the head spinning recently. It was great special effects at the time, but looks really fake now.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:55 pm
God couldn’t possibly exist cos there’s suffering in the world

Again, this is not my thesis at all. Everyone else understands what I am saying, you are the odd man out.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 10:56 pm
Is Dot a Left Libertarian?

I’ll have to check the libertarian manual. Then I’ll see if he filled out the forms correctly. In triplicate.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jun 12 at 10:58 pm
Like I said, it was proved later (around the mid-1800′s) that slavery was a major cause of poverty. A person living circa 50ad would not have known any better, but god would have.

It’s the fact that your nasty bigotry is coupled with breathtaking stupidity that I enjoy most Yobbo.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 10:58 pm
I’m staying up all night. These Grecian elections have me spooked. I can’t fucking believe that 11.5 million euroweenies could cause such a fucking ruckus.

Steve C.

If the far left end up winning, don’t even fucking show up here or I’ll bite your freaking head off. I’m warning you, don’t piss me off tomorrow.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 10:59 pm
Hint: It’s not what god did that is the issue. It’s what god is reported to have said by various people.

For instance, the book of Leviticus, purportedly written by Moses, conveying to the people the laws he was given by god.

The book contains countless examples of psycopathic and pointlessly barbaric laws. Why would a loving God issue his people with their laws?

He wouldn’t. A delusional megalomaniac human, on the other hand, might be able to convince a group of people that he did.

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 11:01 pm
IT

There was only ever one form. They don’t even make you pay membership, just discriminate between financial and non financial members and ask for donations at elections.

What a lovely bunch of people.

.

17 Jun 12 at 11:02 pm
Why would a loving God issue his people with their laws?

How could God be so mean Yobbo?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 11:03 pm
You are really really stupid Yobbo.

You have an inkling yeah?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 11:04 pm
~~their~~ these laws*

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 11:05 pm
And people like SteveC never shut up about anything.

Interesting observation Gab:
posts tonight by Steve on the “faith” topic introduced by Yobbo – 4
posts by Gab on the same topic – 37.
Not sure you have correctly identified the one who “can’t shut up”

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 11:06 pm
lol you take a sample of a few hours, SteveC, and these are responses to comments directed at me, yet I’ve seen your grubby little paws on 99% of threads, mostly snarking and sneering and off topic and then getting your hide whipped by JC and others.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:12 pm
He’s a top bloke and it’s embarrassing that he has to defend an atheist perspective on Catallaxy.

He’s not defending an “atheist perspective” the root of his argument was this:

Stupid opinions and views have never been tolerated here. It’s time that stupid religious beliefs met the same fate.

And then he goes on to say things like this:

Gab, it’s only religious people who want abortion outlawed

Which is demonstrably a “stupid opinion”.

And why shouldn’t he defend an atheist perspective? At what point exactly did Australian libertarianism become synonymous with militant atheism? Sure as shit the US libertarian movement is jam packed with “gullible small children”, “god botherers” and their “ilk”.

By Yobbos rules Ron Paul himself literally would not be welcome here.

twostix

17 Jun 12 at 11:15 pm
He’s a top bloke and it’s embarrassing that he has to defend an atheist perspective on Catallaxy.

So a bunch of Christians attacked Yobbo out of the blue for being an Atheist, and he had no choice but to jump in and trash all Christians as retarded knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing morons in order to defend his own religious belief system?

Sorry, but I missed that bit.

Looked to me like a typical intolerant militant atheist, so insecure in his own belief system and lacking such confidence in his own intelligence that he has to go around trash-talking anyone who doesn’t subscribe to his beliefs (“Stupid sky-fairy believers are teh stoopid! hurr hurr hurr!”) in order to reinforce the feelings of superiority he’s desperate to cling to.

Militant proselytizing evangelicals of any stripe, be they fundamentalist Christians, Catholics or Atheists, whose philopsophy is not to quietly live their own beliefs but to damn anyone who doesn’t share them as heretics and “lesser beings” bore the shit out of me.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 11:18 pm
Every time someone says “God botherers” a fairy loses its wings.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:20 pm
I on the other Gab, appreciate your wonderful posts, infrequent as they are, greatly.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 11:20 pm
Sneery SteveC, JC is right about you.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:24 pm
I like the ancient astronaut theory best. Ties it all up nicely with a cool scifi twist where both the theists and atheists are just seeing a different part of the elephant. For the record pro life athiest.

big dumb fu

17 Jun 12 at 11:26 pm
Attention fellow catallaxans!

Please draw my attention to the first comment by SteveC that is either interesting or original or frank when and if he chooses to surprise.

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 11:28 pm
Don’t forget that new commandment, superior Gab. You know, the one “that’s a beauty”.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 11:29 pm
Just for you JamesK:
What’s going on with Florida and electoral rolls? Why is so hard for them to run an election in that state.

SteveC

17 Jun 12 at 11:32 pm
Superior is as superior does and the only one on here acting in a supercilious manner is SteveC. who apparently just cannot shut up.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:35 pm
Militant proselytizing evangelicals of any stripe, be they fundamentalist Christians, Catholics or Atheists

The difference between proselytizing religions and atheism is that atheism has been proved right in every single instance in the history of human civilisation. In every case where am atheist explanation of the natural world came up against a religious one, the atheist explanation was proved correct.

In many cases, the church sought to kill or silence the scientists who damaged their brand. In the developed world today there are still christian groups actively fighting for the right to brainwash children with proven lies, despite the scientific truth being known for centuries.

You seem to think that religious beliefs are a harmless hobby like knitting, but nobody ever killed anyone over a knitting pattern, did they? Why should atheists sit back and not care about a bunch of brainwashed people who are trying to change modern laws based on the superstitions of bronze age peasants?

Yobbo

17 Jun 12 at 11:39 pm
Steve C

Honestly now, you link to a piece that is somehow supposed to refute GOP concerns about voter fraud in Florida…. and it refers to attempts by the governor there demanding photo ID as a return to Jim Crow….. and this is in the Guardian.

Are you a simpleton even thinking that any shit from the Guardian would carry more weight than a belly full of urine to anyone here?

Are you this simple minded?

You link to a far left British rag hung up of class as somehow evidence to support your claim.

Who reminds you to breathe each time, you idiot?

JC

17 Jun 12 at 11:41 pm
1. Yes they have.

2. Yes you clearly are now.

3. You have no moral backing to do so.

4. Your understanding of the law is deficient. The USSC and even the High Court here would overturn the decision. Marriage requires a ceremony therefore the WWI arguments about s 116 allowing such a law to prevail are invalid. If you are going to call someone naive, make sure you know more about the topic being debated than them.

Dot, if you think me calling you naive is “slagging you off” you need to get out more.

On any post when someone warns of the inevitability of gays turning up and demanding to be married in a church or that people will be required to act against their beliefs in the name of anti-discrimination you simply say “Bullshit” (that’s it “bullshit”) that it’s never going to happen.

Then when it’s demonstrated to have happened you say “oh it doesn’t matter that I was completely wrong about that, don’t worry here look here’s a law that will save you…I promise”.

The fact that what everyone said would happen has already happened – that leftist gays would use the law, backed by the left to attack christianity has absolutely no bearing on you at all.

I swear to god, how naive does someone in Australia have to be quoting the Australian Constitution and relying on the High Court as a defence against any sort of leftist push?

twostix

17 Jun 12 at 11:42 pm
Why should atheists sit back and not care about a bunch of brainwashed people who are trying to change modern laws based on the superstitions of bronze age peasants?

Which modern laws, Yobs?

JC

17 Jun 12 at 11:43 pm
Yobbo’s thesis is Yobbo’s words

The difference between proselytizing religions and atheism is that atheism has been proved right in every single instance in the history of human civilisation

I have nothing further to add

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 11:44 pm
Yobbo I used to think you were an extremely intelligent rationalist but the absolutes you have expounded tonight have proven me wrong.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:47 pm
I never said that twostix and you are just plain wrong about the law.

.

17 Jun 12 at 11:50 pm
“He’s a top bloke and it’s embarrassing that he has to defend an atheist perspective on Catallaxy.”

So a bunch of Christians attacked Yobbo out of the blue for being an Atheist, and he had no choice but to jump in and trash all Christians as retarded knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing morons in order to defend his own religious belief system?

Sorry, but I missed that bit.

Again: Show me where this whole thing started because intolerant militant Christians were attacking Yobbo for his belief system, and he was simply forced to defend himself (the poor beleaguered set-upon dear) by going on the counter-attack.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 11:53 pm
Yobs:

I don’t think science is there to disprove the existence or non-existence of god. Science attempts to explain the natural world. The big bang is neither proof nor disproof of the existence of good.

Mapping the human genome is neither proof nor disproof of the existence of god.

And historically science didn’t develop in the modern world despite the existence of religion/Christianity. It actually rose because of it. Science was done in the monasteries of Europe or funded that way other than what the kings provided when they weren’t busy fighting.

I don’t think one needs to be a christian to believe this. Alain de Botton is an atheist and has very sensible things to say about this. He’s actually a really good guy.

JC

17 Jun 12 at 11:54 pm
You seem to think that religious beliefs are a harmless hobby like knitting, but nobody ever killed anyone over a knitting pattern, did they?

Yobbo you seem to think that radical secularist bigotry is a harmless hobby like knitting but no religious zealots ever killed 100,000,000 million innocents in a single century over a knitting pattern, did they?

JamesK

17 Jun 12 at 11:55 pm
It all started with Yobbo here, possibly set off by one of Grigory’s cartoons about the Emily Listers.

Gab

17 Jun 12 at 11:56 pm
Frank Furedi on the “new Atheists”:

With their zealous denunciation of religion, the so-called New Atheists often resemble medieval moral crusaders. They argue that the influence of religion should be fought wherever it rears its ugly head. Although they demand that religion should be countered by rational arguments, their own claims often verge on the irrational and hysterical. Of course, there has always been an honourable atheist tradition of irreverence and irreligious contempt for dogma. But today’s New Atheism often expresses itself through a doctrinaire language of its own. In a simplistic manner it equates religion with fanaticism and fundamentalism. What is striking about its denunciation of fundamentalism is that it is frequently made in the dogmatic, polemical style of those it claims to oppose. The black-and-white world of theological dogma is reproduced in the zealous polemic of the atheist moraliser.

sdog

17 Jun 12 at 11:57 pm
Sorry for not indulging your delusions Gab.

Show me where this whole thing started because intolerant militant Christians were attacking Yobbo for his belief system

I was chastised for not capitalising “god” last week. It’s not that one thing that has set me off, but it’s just the latest in a long line of religiously motivated commentary here that doesn’t belong on the Catallaxy Files that I have been commenting on for the best part of a decade.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:00 am
I am not a theist, but certainly I do think that Catholics (particularly) can be a very effective battering ram against the Left. So I am not keen on stirring up Christians for that reason, and in fact am often known to cite Justice and Christianity in the service of various causes, regardless of the literal truth of Christianity. Let’s focus on smashing Leftism and their Muslim Brotherhood allies first, and we can hash out our differences later.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:01 am
I was chastised for not capitalising “god” last week.

Then tell the person who said that to fuck off. No need to get carried away with it. You believe what you want.

Was it Steve C that told you as he’s a member of GetUp and they are quite intolerant of small tings. And Simon S is actually a man.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:03 am
Yobbo, of course it is not a logical belief system, but the important thing is that Catholicism is probably the last citadel that has yet to be completely taken over by Communists or Communist sympathisers. There are still hundreds millions of people who, thanks to their faith, can be marshalled and regimented into inflicting serious damage on Leftism. There is no need to mock them for believing in all that non-harmful stuff, such as fasting, literally consuming the Son of God, and so on. It doesn’t hurt anyone.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:06 am
Anyways, Yobs is doing “god’s” work hammering lefties at other sites. He just doesn’t know it how saintly he is.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:06 am
We are reincarnated many times over until we learn the lessons. This is Earth School. First we arrive as male. Then, when we learn the many valuable lessons, and live a good life, we are reincarnated as female.

And when that day comes I’m going to take a day off to can myself and fondle my tits.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:08 am
No delusions on my part, Yobbo. No one was discussing religion and you popped in and sneered:

Anti-abortion bible thumpers taking over the cat bit by bit. Soon there will be no place for libertarians in Oz blogging.

I don’t care if you have been blogging for a decade. And poor you for being “chastised” for not capitalising God last week. What, were you seething for a week and suddenly thought “hey It’s Sunday, damn Christians, I show ‘em”?

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:08 am
Maybe a whole month.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
And when that day comes I’m going to take a day off to can myself and fondle my tits.

Let’s hope you end up like the new rack, Abu.

Where the fuck are you now?

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
I was chastised for not capitalising “god” last week.

Really?

Not by me.

I merely asked you which god you were writing about, Yobbo.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
The Just and Christian thing to do is to smash Leftists. That ideally would be the grand sum of Christianity – eliminating Marxism, Leftism and other deviant ideologies. But if we also have to put up with bread sticks and fake wine then so be it.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
Why dont I see anything in PV’s post about religion? Oh silly me, that’s because there is none. I have done my own research on Gillard and coven and their association with Emily’s List, and there is no way in hell (of any denomination) that that lot have ANY religious conviction…at least in my mind you just couldn’t when you align yourself with groups who agree with and promote full-term abortions. These infants have no rights; these infants are “murdered” – or at least they arent under Australian criminal law (see Victoria and there approval of full-term abortions). If the infant hasn’t taken a breath of air its not “alive” and to kill it in utero is, in Australia, legal….and Labor supports it. Who gives a rats what your religious convictions are (if you have any)…what about your morals?

Kwitcha

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
oops…liking…

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 am
I don’t think science is there to disprove the existence or non-existence of god. Science attempts to explain the natural world. The big bang is neither proof nor disproof of the existence of good.

I agree JC.

The problem for the church is that they made a rod for their own back thousands of years ago by explaining the natural world as they understood it, and attributing everything to god.

As scientific knowledge increases, everything they have said in the past has been revealed as lies, but instead of admitting to the charade they have decided to go to war with science.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:11 am
The Just and Christian thing to do is to smash Leftists.

eggsactly. And then Finkelstein them with their own laws.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:12 am
And when that day comes I’m going to take a day off to can myself and fondle my tits.

See, it’s this attitude why it’s gonna be a long time before you get reincarnated as a female, Abu.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:12 am
That’s not entirely true, Yobbo. The Catholics have said that they believe in evolution. I don’t know how long they have said that, but it’s not true that they have gone to war with science. It may even be a strategic retreat, but so what?

The Just and Catholic thing to do is to support evolution while smashing Leftism completely.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:15 am
smashing lefties.. That reminds me.. I’m off to do the christian thing and twitter ALP ministers. Fucking asshats.

Those morons really don’t know how to argue and stoush. I practically own Emo and about to own Bourke too.

Modern version of slaves, Yobs. The good sort.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:15 am
List of Christian thinkers in science

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:15 am
As scientific knowledge increases, everything they have said in the past has been revealed as lies, but instead of admitting to the charade they have decided to go to war with science.

Incorrect

Read Yobbo.

I suggest this for a start to dispelling your profound ignorance:

The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution (US)
God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science (UK)
By: James Hannam

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:16 am
As scientific knowledge increases, everything they have said in the past has been revealed as lies, but instead of admitting to the charade they have decided to go to war with science.

What a complete load of kibble.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:17 am
Circular argument based on your beliefs, not rationale.

Actually, his reasoning on this is spot on. Unless christians believe in a god that evolves over time, which, uhm… They don’t.

I’m with Yobbo on this issue (though not on child murder and the Jane Austen interpretation of prostitution) but these discussions always become emotional on the believer side. On the other hand, I find Peter Patton’s militant shit stirring tiresome, when it comes to this issue.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:18 am
There is no need to mock them for believing in all that non-harmful stuff, such as fasting, literally consuming the Son of God, and so on. It doesn’t hurt anyone.

Sure, that stuff doesn’t hurt anyone. But the brainwashing, the opposition to medical research and medical treatments, the sectarianism and violence between people who believe in slightly different versions of the same bullshit story certainly do hurt people on a daily basis.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:19 am
Where would we be without Isaac Newton? To say nothing of those marvelous yet swarthy Catholic soldiers, Generals Franco and Pinochet. They were all just magnificent.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:19 am
See, it’s this attitude why it’s gonna be a long time before you get reincarnated as a female, Abu.

What can I say? I’m your biggest barracker.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:20 am
I was chastised for not capitalising “god” last week.

FFS, I was one of the ones who defended you on that, too.

And yet here I am, a Christian myself, steeped in and practicing a tradition of quiet tolerance for others’ personal religious belief systems, finding me and mine trashed by a prickly, snarly, intolerant you.

Your intolerance and sneering supercilious put-downs of anyone who doesn’t share your religious beliefs is what gives atheists (most of whom – the “silent majority” of them – are absolutely great people) a bad name.

sdog

18 Jun 12 at 12:20 am
…perhaps a gourmand more than a gourmet…

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:20 am
No no, agreed. But it is mainly loony Protties who advocate bans on medical treatment, not the largest mainstream Christian organisation in history.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:20 am
always become emotional on the believer side

Really Abu?

The belief that God doesn’t exist or the belief that God does exist?

Yobbo was clearly the irrationally emotional protagonist in this ‘debate’.

So you can stuff at least that silly opinion up your jumper

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:21 am
I’m your biggest barracker.

No you’re lying.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:22 am
But the brainwashing, the opposition to medical research and medical treatments, the sectarianism and violence between people who believe in slightly different versions of the same bullshit story certainly do hurt people on a daily basis.

Please educate yourself Yobbo instead of spewing profound stupidity on a repetitive basis.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:24 am
That’s not entirely true, Yobbo. The Catholics have said that they believe in evolution.

They only believe certain parts of it Fisky. For example, the catholic church, despite accepting the general premise of natural selection, still maintains that the only way that a human could evolve from a non-human ancestor is with the aid of divine intervention.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:25 am
But the brainwashing, the opposition to medical research and medical treatments,

Like what, Yobs..?

Look at the atheist side of things. To a man the social democrats in Australia are atheists by and large. They believe that spending money on pink bats was stimulatory. School halls are an ever lasting asset, the NBN will grow our economy by 30% compounded per month, the mining tax is fair for all Australians, and the tax on da carbon will stop global warming. Those are the basic tenets of the Australian modern left. Don’t even get me started on the American left.

Oh and they also, to a man, believe that solar and wind power will provide enough energy for a modern industrial civilization.

Here, let me test it now.. Steve C. You believe all this swill, right? Tell yobbo.

Where’s the real anti-science? Where’s the misanthropy?

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:30 am
But it is mainly loony Protties who advocate bans on medical treatment, not the largest mainstream Christian organisation in history.

You’re right. But then it was never my intention to single out one particular religion or sect. They all have their problems, some worse than others obviously.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:32 am
hey only believe certain parts of it Fisky. For example, the catholic church, despite accepting the general premise of natural selection, still maintains that the only way that a human could evolve from a non-human ancestor is with the aid of divine intervention.

An interesting if misleading interpretation of Catholic Church teaching.

Or is there another “catholic church” whose theology you were describing Yobbo?

Moreover monogenism is compatible with most evolutionary theory variants

Are you capable of engaging in civil debate Yobbo?

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:34 am
You’re right. But then it was never my intention to single out one particular religion or sect.

Stop lying Yobbo.

You are virulently anti-Catholic Church

Your supposed atheistic based bigotry is focused as anti-catholic sectarianism.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:36 am
No, I don’t think that’s right, James. Yobbo hates all religions and anyone associated with any religion.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:39 am
To a man the social democrats in Australia are atheists by and large.

Yes, it always amazes me that people who are quite capable of looking at the evidence and coming to the correct conclusions about religion are for some reason unable to do the same with economics.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:39 am
They only believe certain parts of it Fisky.

Unlike of course the modern left which believes in one half of it, but becomes a little frazzled when it gets to the part about the descent of man.

For example, the catholic church, despite accepting the general premise of natural selection, still maintains that the only way that a human could evolve from a non-human ancestor is with the aid of divine intervention.

And I have an issue with a basic tenet of evolutionary theory myself. However these days merely saying that gets one posted as an knuckle dragging denialist. I believe there is great and virtually 100% proof of horizontal evolution whereby a species that is isolated from the rest can evolve in a different direction while still remaining part of the same species.

However I don’t fucking believe we have even got close to proving vertical evolution where one species essentially becomes another. I don’t believe for instance that fish came out of the sea, developed wings, feet and feathers and then flew off into the sunlit sky.

I think there is a strong case of similar life developing in far different environments thereby taking off in entirely different directions, but not vertical change.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:40 am
Your supposed atheistic based bigotry is focused as anti-catholic sectarianism.

That’s ridiculous, James. By far the nuttiest Christians in the world today are protestant American churches. They are the ones fighting evolution in schools and blowing up abortion clinics.

Obviously you’ve never read anything here I’ve written about Islam either. Not surprising given the general level of your reading comprehension.

I could write a whole essay about the things wrong with Buddhism but I’m pretty sure it would be illegal for me to do so here.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:44 am
But it is mainly loony Protties who advocate bans on medical treatment

You’d be hard pressed to find many outside of one or two very specific sects.

For example, the catholic church, despite accepting the general premise of natural selection, still maintains that the only way that a human could evolve from a non-human ancestor is with the aid of divine intervention.

That’s not quite correct. Edward Feser for example rejects all Intelligent Design arguments. He does say that intellect is something of a step-change from a philosophical point of view, but essentially rejects the notion of God stepping in to interfere with natural-history processes He set in play in the first place.

The point here is that ultimately from a classical, theistic point of view everything exists because God does. There is no need for specific instances of God stepping in a bothering about with DNA because the process of evolution is working according to God’s intent anyway. This isn’t a new view, either, it’s existed in Christian thought since the early Greek converts.

wreckage

18 Jun 12 at 12:44 am
Buddhism is not a religion.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:47 am
That’s ridiculous, James. By far the nuttiest Christians in the world today are protestant American churches. They are the ones fighting evolution in schools and blowing up abortion clinics.

Yes and they are fucking hardwired against the Kenyan and his belief system rooted in socialism. I know who I’m siding with.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:48 am
Ron Paul is a proto for instance. I never liked him but I don’t question his libertarian philosophy.

The libertarian movement actually went with the left in 08 in the US. They won’t make that fucking mistake ever again I hope.

That marriage made in hell lasted all of 37.3456 seconds.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:51 am
That’s ridiculous, James. By far the nuttiest Christians in the world today are protestant American churches. They are the ones fighting evolution in schools and blowing up abortion clinics.

Obviously you’ve never read anything here I’ve written about Islam either. Not surprising given the general level of your reading comprehension.

No it’s not.

You reserve your vilest comments for Christianity and the pope and opposition to abortion.

I’ve previously posted here that vile radical secularists hate the Catholic Church here most of all c/f ‘their’ ABC and Evangelicals (rather than generic Protestants) then Catholics and then generic Protestants in the USA.

You are a typical bilious bigoted radical secularist and your vile poisonous spewing has been clearly directed at the Catholic Church for the most part on this blog (if not today), Christians in general second and a mile further in arrears an occasional derisory comment against Islam.

Bravo! Big man.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:52 am
and blowing up abortion clinics

By far the most frequent acts of domestic terrorism in the USA are performed by animal rights activists.

wreckage

18 Jun 12 at 12:53 am
Unlike of course the modern left which believes in one half of it, but becomes a little frazzled when it gets to the part about the descent of man.

That’s true. The Left actually believe that human brains stopped evolving 1 million years ago. They also believe that men are biologically identical to women.

Leftism, and only Leftism, should be completely banned.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:53 am
Unlike of course the modern left which believes in one half of it, but becomes a little frazzled when it gets to the part about the descent of man.

That’s true. The Left actually believe that human brains stopped evolving 1 million years ago. They also believe that men are biologically identical to women.

Leftism, and only Leftism, should be completely banned.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:53 am
Buddhism is not a religion.

Why do say that?

All sects have a common theology.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:54 am
It is a philosophy, James. Read here.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:56 am
The Left also believe that poverty explains why Ethiopians are better long distance runners, because they didn’t have enough money to afford dumbbells and become champion weightlifters like the Russians. Seriously. One of these days, they are actually going to get (more) people killed due to their idiotic, anti-scientific beliefs.

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 12:56 am
By far the most frequent acts of domestic terrorism in the USA are performed by animal rights activists.

Greenslimepeace went into a CSIRO farm and destroyed the experimental wheat crop.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:57 am
Many professed atheists, particularly those espousing green causes, are actually pagans. They have simply substituted their belief space.

Genuine rejection of all deity and spirit is actually quite rare.

dismissive

18 Jun 12 at 12:57 am
No you’re lying.

There’s a man who likes women more than me?

No you are lying.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 12:58 am
Buddhism doesn’t recognise any deity (Buddha was just a mortal man with no supernatural powers, although Hindus consider him to be an avatar of Vishnu). I think it still qualifies as a religion though, since it deals heavily with the concepts of life after death and has a few supernatural elements to it.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 12:58 am
animal rights activists.

and Eco-terrorists.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:00 am
Many professed atheists, particularly those espousing green causes, are actually pagans. They have simply substituted their belief space.

Yep, a settled comfortable atheist, David Freidman refers to them as nature worshipers. There’s nothing atheistic about Mad dog bob or tubbsie milne.

Don’t get me started on the greenslime. I’m edgy as it is with the Grecian election as I’m long some high octane call options and don’t want to get my nervous system on edge as Monday could be a long day.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:01 am
Then perhaps you could read the link I posted to James, Yobbo and you may glean a different understanding of Buddha and Buddhism.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:02 am
Let’s hope you end up like the new rack, Abu.

Where the fuck are you now?

In my garden, surrounded by razor wire, smoking a Partagas Serie D Especiale, reading the Cat and sipping MacCallans. Maghreb prayers start soon, which is rather apposite.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:02 am
(Buddha was just a mortal man with no supernatural powers

And a very fat one. Unusual for the time. That fucker must have gulped down entire harvests at one sitting.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:03 am
Sorry Stepford, Labor still getting smashed:

The vote, after distribution of preferences, has Labor at 44 per cent with the Coalition at 56 per cent – a six-point drop since the 2010 election, but an eight-point dive from a Galaxy poll conducted when Ms Gillard first seized the leadership.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/poll-finds-prime-minister-julia-gillard-a-three-way-failure/story-e6frfkvr-1226398150135#ixzz1y3yVNEIb

Fisky

18 Jun 12 at 1:03 am
In my garden,

Man of mystery. But you’re not in OZ are you? You’re in an undisclosed location

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:04 am
This debate reminds me of Liberal/Labor tribalism. So much noise and yet we eat drink and make merrie with people in real life who vote in either direction and we probably don’t know and nor should we care.

Still, the ALP suck.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:04 am
And a very fat one. Unusual for the time.

He ate lots of carbs and very little protein.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:05 am
It is a philosophy, James. Read here.

On that basis Judaism and Christianity are philosophies rather than religions too Gab.

Gautama taught the Four noble Truths and the Eightfold Path and a religion sprung from his teachings.

Christian Transcendence through contemplative prayer and service are equivalent to prayer/meditation and non attachment practice in Buddhism.

Both regard this world as unreal suffering Samsara/’vale of tears’

Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:05 am
The only thing crtain about me, Gab, is that I really, really, really like women.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:06 am
Abu

Are you kidding. There’s no way I would ever allow a greenslimer to go without being terrorized. None. There are obvious limits.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:06 am
And single malt.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:07 am
Gay Taliban now attacking Salvation Army, call for boycott.

Australian gay pop star Darren Hayes is outraged

LOL.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:07 am
There is no God in Buddhism, James.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:08 am
No greenslimer would dare to admit it around me, I suppose. For all their activist bollocks they do have a sense of self preservation.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:08 am
That is not the Buddha, you are thinking of Budai.

Budai is often conflated with (or simply replaces) the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, in spite of the distinct visual differences in how each has been depicted. In India, Nepal, and throughout southeast Asia, Gautama (who lived during the 6th c. BCE) is commonly depicted as being tall and slender in appearance. In contrast, in China and those areas to which Chinese cultural influence spread, the depiction of Budai (who lived during the 10th c. CE) is consistently short and round.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:10 am
Ouch:

Romney: Governor might have been ‘better job’ for Obama’s career.

Presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney knocked President Obama’s political resume Saturday, saying the former senator should have served a stint as a governor instead of leaping straight into the presidency…

“Governor might have been a better job for him to have started with…”

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:10 am
The fact that Buddha is fat is likely a key reason for his success in Asia. It’s symbolic of prosperity.

Which makes him the ultimate free market capitalist god.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:12 am
By far the nuttiest Christians in the world today are protestant American churches. They are the ones [...] blowing up abortion clinics.

There you go again, proving Furedi’s point. “Although they demand that religion should be countered by rational arguments, their own claims often verge on the irrational and hysterical.”

Fewer than a dozen abortionists and staff have been killed by pro-life zealots since the Roe v Wade decision in the early 70s. Y’all need to lie and make out that it’s some sort of normal everyday protestant thing, that every Sunday they go out and blow up abortion clinics.

Statistically, killing babies one of the safest professions going. For those doing the killing, that is – not for the babies.

sdog

18 Jun 12 at 1:12 am
The Romnster is fucking with his mind now. I think the Romnster’s team believe they can get him really rattled.

The Kenyan’s problem is that he’s never experienced this before. Everyone has always gone easy on the affirmative action kid. Even Hillary laid off him because she was scared of what the implications were.

Romney’s like the honey badger. He doesn’t give a shit.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:14 am
The fact that Buddha is fat is likely a key reason for his success in Asia. It’s symbolic of prosperity.

Really? Funny old world.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:16 am
Abbott could with some honey badger badass attitude.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:16 am
There is no God in Buddhism, James

That is often said Gab but I think it is just not true.

Most Buddhists say they believe in God although they don’t think that belief is central to Buddhism (wrongly in my opinion).

Moreover if this world is unreal then Buddhist ‘clear-light mind’ is what?

I think they are just confused with our term ‘God’.

We have merely personified Creator as Father, Son and Holy spirit.

Why does an enlightened being reincarnate but to bless people as they grow in suffering as an act of Compassion.

Where does he re-incarnate from?

Buddhists pray.

Who/what to?

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:18 am
There is no God in Buddhism, James.

Theoretically there aren’t, but in practice there are many gods who can be petitioned for favours. And Buddha and his followers were attributed with a great number of miraculous, supernatural powers in some traditions.

wreckage

18 Jun 12 at 1:21 am
Buddhists pray.

Who/what to?

To themselves and the Universe.

Buddhist prayer is a practice to awaken our inherent inner capacities of strength, compassion and wisdom rather than to petition external forces based on fear, idolizing, and worldly and/or heavenly gain. Buddhist prayer is a form of meditation; it is a practice of inner reconditioning. Buddhist prayer replaces the negative with the virtuous and points us to the blessings of Life.

For Shin Buddhists, prayer expresses an aspiration to pull something into one’s life, like some new energy or purifying influence and share it with all beings. Likewise, prayer inspires our hearts towards wisdom and compassion for others and ourselves. It allows us to turn our hearts and minds to the beneficial, rousing our thoughts and actions towards Awakening. If we believe in something enough, it will take hold of us. In other words, believing in it, we will become what we believe. Our ability to be touched like this is evidence of the working of Great Compassion within us.

What’s more, it can a function as a form of self-talking or self-therapy in which one mentally talks through a problem, or talks through it aloud, in the hope that some new insight will come or a better decision can be made. Prayer therefore frequently has the function of being part of a decision-making process.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:23 am
Buddhists don’t pray to Buddha. They pray to achieve enlightenment.

But the philosophical elements of Buddhism do not require anyone to give up their traditional beliefs, so it’s possible to be a Buddhist as well as worshipping pagan gods or ancestor worship at the same.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:23 am
same time*

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:24 am
yobs

You’re not some crazyass Buddhist or something you haven’t told us about, right?

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:25 am
To themselves and the Universe.

You’ve just demonstrated my point Gab.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:25 am
Buddhists are heathens and that’s all you need to know about them.

————————————-

Fewer than a dozen abortionists and staff have been killed by pro-life zealots since the Roe v Wade decision in the early 70s.

On the other hand, 250 women in the US have died since 1973 from legal abortions.

CDC statistics dating back to 1975 revealed that there were seven times as many abortion deaths following Roe v. Wade than prior to the decision.

It’s pretty clear who the terrorists are.

Of course we could always hand the world back to atheists. They did such a fantastic job in the twentieth century.

150,000,000 killed.

Well played, sirs.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:26 am
The fact that Buddha is fat is likely a key reason for his success in Asia. It’s symbolic of prosperity.

It’s true that pudgyness is a symbol of prosperity in some parts of Asia, but like I said earlier that fat guy is not the Buddha associated with Buddhism. It’s a depiction of a 10th century AD Buddhist monk who some Chinese see as a good luck charm.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:26 am
Buddhists don’t pray to Buddha. They pray to achieve enlightenment.

Which of your gods is ‘achieve enlightenment’ nimrod?

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
Yobbo is a hedonist. Right Yobbo?

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
No, the universe is not a god, neither is Buddha.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
Rodney King dead.

http://www.news.com.au/world/rodney-king-dead-at-47-report-says/story-e6frfkyi-1226398164503

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
No JC, but I live in a Buddhist country so I’m not completely ignorant of the subject.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:27 am
Communists just replaced one god with another. Those people died in the name of cults and their mortal idols.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 1:29 am
No, the universe is not a god, neither is Buddha.

Okay Gab. If you say so.

You’re not confused with the universe of cosmology by chance?

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:30 am
Your question answers itself, James.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:32 am
WTF?

http://deadspin.com/5919014?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:32 am
Okay Gab. If you say so.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:32 am
Pro Euro left party has a slight lead in the Grecian elections.

Honestly, this is the last time I ever want to hear about that pipsqueak nation for at least a decade.
http://deadspin.com/5919014?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:37 am
I guess you could say that Abu, or maybe a Laveyan Satanist. They sound like kind of the same thing, although saying I am Satanist is probably going to lead to more pleasure. What a paradox.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 1:38 am
It’s pretty incredible. According to several articles such as this one, Obama felt himself destined to be POTUS from an early age.

And he made it. No one can take that away from him. But how does he sell his performance in office to himself? That’s what I want to know. I mean, no one with delusions of grandeur is going to think something on high decided “YOU are to be the chosen one, and YOU will be a rubbish one term President.” No, they all think they’re going to create utopia through the force of their own genius.

So how does someone like Obama reconcile this sense of a pre-ordained Presidency held since his 20s – and all the Man Of Destiny bullshit that invariably accompanies such an ego trip – with the fact that his Presidency has been a dismal failure?

Oh come on

18 Jun 12 at 4:16 am
PS. yes, I’m well aware denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Oh come on

18 Jun 12 at 4:18 am
You know how he sticks his nose in the air and looks over the people, gazing down his cheek bones, like Louis XIV or Mussolini?

That’s how.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 5:13 am
How many “pro-life” atheists do you think there are?

I know of five, so it’s a good bet there are more.

Six, Gab. There is a place where abortions are acceptable – Fallopian Tube pregnancies, for example.
But looking at that picture of the poor Chinese mother and dead child has really knocked my socks off.

Winston Smith

18 Jun 12 at 5:42 am
I look forward to reading Yobbo’s critiques of Islam. Links, please.
Or just write some fresh ones.

Blogstrop

18 Jun 12 at 6:59 am
I’m sure Yobbo would more than happy to write one off the top of his head. Islam is deficient in every way Islam is, and combines that with an even more inflexible dogma and ignorance of history.

Quentin George

18 Jun 12 at 7:13 am
Sam,post your “sorry” clip

Tal

18 Jun 12 at 7:15 am
And now for something completely different from atheists proselytising their religion, scoot to 20:10. It’s weird and beautiful and so very alien.

lotocoti

18 Jun 12 at 8:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvHueH5mtI

so sorry christians

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 8:35 am
Andrew Jaspan on what he reckons is coming from Gina.

He also says The Age and SMH will be effectively merged as of July. Had that been announced before?

I hope he’s wrong about the future of Fairfax, but I suspect he isn’t.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 8:40 am
Hey SteveC, an update for you.

I remember when you came running here like a puppy with Labor’s latest talking points (we saw the exact same wording in tweets from Labor ministers) that the Ashby civil matter would be like the Gordon Grech affair.

Here is Michelle Grattan’s take on the matter:

In the Thomson affair, the government constantly admonishes the opposition for not leaving it to the legal process. In the Slipper case, it’s another story.

Ministers justify this dubious behaviour by saying the Commonwealth is a participant – Ashby claims he did not get due care from his employer – and they are just repeating what was said in court. The Commonwealth alleged that Ashby was in league with a fellow staffer, Brough, and News Ltd’s Steve Lewis as he sought to discredit the Speaker.

The ministers are drawing a long bow to defend their strong interventions. Roxon’s Friday press conference was anything but a dry summary of proceedings. Craig Emerson yesterday was asserting Brough ”had plenty to hide” – it was ”rubbish” for him to assert otherwise. On the other side, Brough was also on television attacking the government.

The players with skin in the game have no intention of waiting for the court’s verdict. There are points to be scored or countered. Forget ”sub judice”.

Looks like the person who is going to suffer in the long term over that statement is our AG who chose to interfere in a civil matter with some very speculative statements.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 8:42 am
Yobbo looks a Wiggle.

Their shows could be spiced up a bit with more songs about prostitution, gambling, drinking and recreational drugs.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 8:43 am
The difference between proselytizing religions and atheism is that atheism has been proved right in every single instance in the history of human civilisation. In every case where am atheist explanation of the natural world came up against a religious one, the atheist explanation was proved correct.

There is no such thing as an atheist (or theist) explanation of the natural world. There is, in Western civilisation, a mechanistic (and non-mechanistic) explanation, however. And as we’ve found, a purely mechanical/materialist framwork leads to profound incoherence. You don’t need to take a theist’s word for this, just listen to atheists like Nagel or Searle. Moreover, if you want to view the reductio ad absurdum of mechanism/ materialism, eliminative materialism, go read Rosenberg’s An Atheist’s Guide to Reality. In that tome, Rosenberg throws under the bus, not merely God, Immortality, Morality, and Purpose, but also, purpose at an individual level (intentionality), the self, morality, and much more. Feser’s fisking of Rosenberg is collected here. And there is, of course, Alvin Plantinga’s recent book, Where the Conflict Really Lies: Science, Religion, and Naturalism, but please be careful, Plantinga, much like Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Leibniz, and Clarke, is by Yobbo’s lights, merely another ‘imbecile’.

dover_beach

18 Jun 12 at 8:44 am
Yob, what pleasure do you get trying to tear the fabric that is at the heart of the values of so many of the participants of the blog?

Seriously, do you think you’ll get these goes to go apostate when being beaten across the head?

Token

18 Jun 12 at 8:46 am
Andrew Jaspan on what he reckons is coming from Gina.

He also says The Age and SMH will be effectively merged as of July. Had that been announced before?

Typical of you SoB, you go to the guy Fauxfacts appointed to bombard readers with marxist left wing values, who nurtured imported from the entitlement culture of the UK.

SoB, during Jaspan’s tenure the circulation of The Age plumetted to these uneconomic levels as Jaspan’s marxist values were so out of step with mainstream Melbourne (the most left wing city in Australia).

Token

18 Jun 12 at 8:51 am
If your values are based on a book written 4000 years ago by slave-beating fraudsters, you have bigger problems than being made fun of on the internet.

Besides, I already apologised like 6 posts up.

Yobbo

18 Jun 12 at 8:51 am
The headline from Jaspan’s piece, Steve, is the number of layoffs. 600-800 editorial at Fairfax and 1500 staff at News. You don’t do that without significantly changing the products for the worse.

It was inevitable, but it’s still sad when it happens.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 8:52 am
I’m not saying I am any particular fan of Jaspan, Token. But what he wrote was still interesting.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 8:54 am
Token,
did you also agree with Grattan on saturday:

The role of the media in these and many other cases can be crucial. The Chamberlain and Corby stories were made for the media: conspiracy theories, larger-than-life characters, exotic locations, people taking ”sides”. In such situations, often anything goes in the reporting, which sets the atmosphere against which citizens make their judgments. The phrase ”trial by media” can sum it up.

Thinking more widely, in high-profile cases with political import, the media, public and politicians can want to cut the corners of legal niceties. We’ve seen this in the ”Captain Emad” affair. After the ABC’s Four Corners aired detailed claims about the alleged people smuggler, there was clamour from the opposition and sections of the media for the government and police to act against him. When it was found the authorities had not stopped him fleeing the country 24 hours after the program, the Federal Police Commissioner, Tony Negus, had to defend the police performance.

The need for adequate evidence before you arrest someone, considerations of due process – necessary protections in our legal system – tend to be regarded as less important as people get caught up in the outrage or the politics of the moment.
And that takes us straight to the Craig Thomson and Peter Slipper affairs, and the inevitable problems in cocktails of politics and the law. With Thomson, the government accuses the opposition of pre-empting the courts. With Slipper, the Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, was out yesterday publicly reinforcing what the Commonwealth is arguing against James Ashby, Slipper’s accuser.

I still think the Ashby saga is more likely to blow up in the oppositions face. And like Gretch, Ashby won’t be a winner in the political game of pawns.

SteveC

18 Jun 12 at 8:57 am
Ashby has already blown up in the opposition’s face. They can’t put any pressure on Slipper now. Abbott should probably offer up Pyne as the scapegoat in the affair before it gets worse.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 9:02 am
If your values are based on a book written 4000 years ago by slave-beating fraudsters, you have bigger problems than being made fun of on the internet.

Besides, I already apologised like 6 posts up.

LOL, very sincere.

As a person committed to fight the multitude of hate based Green/Left religions based upon a Platonic parodise structured around Marxist/Hegelian/Malthusian fallacies, I believe we have bigger fish to fry, but by all means enjoy yourself.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 9:05 am
parodise (i.e. a parody of paradise, something I admit I made up on the spot)

Token

18 Jun 12 at 9:06 am
They can’t put any pressure on Slipper now.

They can’t put pressure on him as there is a judicial process in action. Unlike the team you fanatically barrack for (not the one Kennett lead), the Coalition still respect the legal process.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 9:09 am
I’m not saying I am any particular fan of Jaspan, Token. But what he wrote was still interesting.

Interesting.

*yawn*

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 9:11 am
I’m a big fan of breaking down the hive mind/group think approach to journalism that has ruled for the past 30 years.

The role of the media in these and many other cases can be crucial. The Chamberlain and Corby stories were made for the media: conspiracy theories, larger-than-life characters, exotic locations, people taking ”sides”. In such situations, often anything goes in the reporting, which sets the atmosphere against which citizens make their judgments. The phrase ”trial by media” can sum it up.

Basically, if you agree with this viewpoint, you have to be against the extra controls on freedom of speech the Green/Left are pushing through the Philistine Enquiry, as it will shut down all alternatives to the media groupthink.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 9:16 am
Basically, if you agree with this viewpoint, you have to be against the extra controls on freedom of speech the Green/Left are pushing through the Philistine Enquiry, as it will shut down all alternatives to the media groupthink.

No, you’re lying. (As Tillman would say).

It could, potentially, give some form of affordable and enforceable redress to the likes of Chamberlain and Corby for misreporting that worked to their detriment.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 9:24 am
If your values are based on a book written 4000 years ago by slave-beating fraudsters, you have bigger problems than being made fun of on the internet

Eisenhower reflecting on the Founding Fathers of 1776

all men are endowed by their Creator

said:

“In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don’t care what it is.

With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men created equal.”

So judeo-christian values are that all men are created equal.

These are your values Yobbo, who sick fuck:

All atheist are created more equal than people of faith particularly Christians and most particularly
Catholics who are retards?

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 9:30 am
By the way, I wonder if CL read the Fairfax Weekend Magazine’s profile of George Pell. He would not have been very pleased with it.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 9:33 am
James,Yobbo is yanking your chain

Tal

18 Jun 12 at 9:33 am
It could, potentially, give some form of affordable and enforceable redress to the likes of Chamberlain and Corby for misreporting that worked to their detriment

Gobbledygoo

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 9:34 am
Tough coalition bargaining will follow in the next few days but even if those talks fail New Democracy will be able to form a minority government and rule with the consent of Pasok. – The Australian

I’m not a follower of Greek politics, but that sounds like a coalition of Catallaxy and the Australian Greens! That would be fun.

SteveC

18 Jun 12 at 9:35 am
James,Yobbo is yanking your chain

Yobbo has been comprehensively pwned on this thread Tal.

And mostly by me.

Specifically he is yanking nobody’s chain.

His world-view is actually that nauseatingly bigoted.

Just read further up the thread Tal.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 9:37 am
There seems a distinct lack of interest in process theology by anyone at this blog. I find it rather interesting.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 9:52 am
No, you’re lying. (As Tillman would say).

Prove I am lying (as Bob Ellis would say)

It could, potentially, give some form of affordable and enforceable redress to the likes of Chamberlain and Corby for misreporting that worked to their detriment.

I’m intrigued by this, it would be super if you could provide further information to support this statement.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 9:56 am
I’ve read the whole thing James,Yobbo really is a nice bloke

Tal

18 Jun 12 at 10:00 am
Full details of the Fairfax restructure.

1900 jobs gone, 20% editorial.
SMH/Age to move to “compact” size like the AFR, i.e. tabloid.
Metered model for online versions of SMH/Age, i.e. paywall.
Digital and print to merge with “digital-first”.
Selling down its share of Trade Me from 66% to 51%.

This is the end. My final friend, the end.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 10:05 am
I’ve read the whole thing James,Yobbo really is a nice bloke

How do you know “Yobbo really is a nice bloke”, Tal?

Wishful thinking, p’haps?

All evidence from his puerile and stupid comments point the mind of a bigoted turd.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:07 am
There seems a distinct lack of interest in process theology by anyone at this blog. I find it rather interesting.

Interesting.

*yawn*

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:08 am
Woman on a first date with JamesK, getting the rundown on how he is right about everything and everyone else is a idiot:

*yawn*

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 10:11 am
Liar-steve® unsurprisingly is facilely incoherent yet again.

*yawn*

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:13 am
Token – no time for details. Just making the point that it is individuals who suffer at the hands of press reporting that is unethical and unbalanced, or breaches privacy in unacceptable ways, and having a mechanism to get fast corrections or apologies would no doubt serve some people in controversial cases well.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 10:15 am
So does that mean that ABC will swell employment numbers by 1900?

Mike of Marion

18 Jun 12 at 10:15 am
The only mistake I made was probably in assuming you ever get a woman to agree to go on a date, JamesK.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 10:16 am
Funny how this internet has worked out, isn’t it? Not sure that anyone saw it panning out quite in this way (to decrease media diversity), at least at the start.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 10:17 am
So does that mean that ABC will swell employment numbers by 1900?

It means the ABC want to enter the dead tree media

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:17 am
Now I had better run before I am accused, like the other Steve, of dominating the blog.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 10:18 am
The only mistake I made was probably in assuming you ever get a woman to agree to go on a date, JamesK.

At least I won’t bore the panties off them liar.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:19 am
i imagine the abortion issue would be repulsive to doctors, the destruction of healthy life and so on rather than what they are trained to do, and I undertand JamesK is a physician,

only just saying that’s all, not to interfere, just an opinion

candy

18 Jun 12 at 10:22 am
only just saying that’s all, not to interfere, just an opinion

As in all walks of life all types make up the medical profession Candy

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 10:32 am
Today’s announcements put a lie to the submissions by News and Fairfax to the Finkelstein inquiry claiming that all was rosy in commercial funding for quality journalism. They lied because they didn’t want more government-funded competition, understandably, but it was a tissue-thin lie then and it has been exposed now.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 10:42 am
UCLA Professor Sues for Firing over Diesel Pollution Study Whistleblowing

A California epidemiologist who lost his job with UCLA not long after challenging the science behind claims that diesel pollution was responsible for 2,000 deaths a year in the state is suing to get his job back.

UCLA’s actions were so extreme that its own Academic Freedom Committee unanimously expressed its concern about the case.”

In addition, the complaint argues that he exposed the fact that the lead author of the key CARB Report used to justify the diesel regulations did not have the UC Davis Ph.D. degree that he claimed. Instead, according to the suit, this “scientist” bought a fake Ph.D. for $1,000 from a fictional “Thornhill University.”

Ironically enough, the fake “scientist” was only suspended for his misconduct while Dr. Enstrom was terminated for telling the truth.

Then right on the heels of the controversy the WHO steps in.

On Tuesday, the World Health Organization waded into the subject matter, releasing a study declaring diesel fumes a carcinogen akin to second-hand smoke, so it’s possible truckers in other states (or countries) may soon be fighting this fight as well.

Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good scientific study.

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 10:50 am
The failure of same sex marriage will be all AbbottAbbottAbbott’s fault

Helen Armstrong

18 Jun 12 at 10:51 am
Do as I say in presumption of innocence, not as I do, says Goose.

Helen Armstrong

18 Jun 12 at 10:53 am
Yobbo – “sorry” to health nazis and greenpeace? That’s just beyond the pale!

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 10:53 am
No drams SteC – China and the US are about to fix it

Tiny Dancer

18 Jun 12 at 11:00 am
Interesting… Family First adopts a tax policy better than LDP’s.

“Income tax, company tax, payroll tax, petrol tax, GST, the Medicare levy, the emergency services levy, the River Murray levy … on it goes. Governments, State and Federal, hit us at every turn. The capacity of politicians and public servants to spend our taxes knows no bounds. We wouldn’t mind if our taxes went on improving roads, hospitals, schools, Aboriginal communities, disability services, homelessness and law and order, but it doesn’t. Give another $billion dollars to any of these departments and it is immediately gobbled up by building the bureaucracy – new offices, more staff, higher pay, and more cars. But not better services on the wards, in the classrooms or on remote communities. If the Australian tax system is to offer incentives to be productive, to expand activities, to shift from welfare to work, to pay tax and invest in the future then it must be simple, flat and, in the eyes of tax payers, a fair system.”

Check out the PDF file at the link.

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 11:12 am
Yob, what pleasure do you get trying to tear the fabric that is at the heart of the values of so many of the participants of the blog?

If some doctrine cannot withstand questioning and scrutiny, silly suppositions and irrational abuse, then it’s not worth the belief. Yobbo is hardly the first to do this, nor will he be the last.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 11:16 am
Time for Young Warwick to ride in to Fairfax’s rescue.

Actually Young Warwick looks like a genius compared to those who actually managed the place into the ground after that.

H B Bear

18 Jun 12 at 11:16 am
Potemkin’s Village

Evewyone, keep vewy vewy qwiet… here

Grigory Potemkin

18 Jun 12 at 11:22 am
Old Warwick these days.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 11:23 am
SMH/Age to move to “compact” size like the AFR, i.e. tabloid.

Tim Blair update:

UPDATE II. The ABC’s go-to gal for expert comment: an ex-Age staffer now completing a PhD on the future of broadsheet journalism.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 11:27 am
Grigory,
Very Good.
Still waiting for the formation of a commission and terms of reference. I understand there is a meeting this week.

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 11:32 am
Newman axes this.

Yes, Bligh was going to spend more than $6 million on a ski-slope in Brisbane.

Federal Labor outraged!

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 11:35 am
No wonder Blair’s going after Fairfax despite News also sacking hundreds. Talk is of Rinehart poaching Bolt to Fairfax after she gets a board seat or two. TweedleBlair and TweedleBolt in competition, how excitement.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 11:36 am
Ahhh. I love the sound of lefties gnashing their teeth in the morning.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 11:38 am
Thanks for the uodate Rudi. I was wondering what was happening and when

Grigory Potemkin

18 Jun 12 at 11:39 am
Galaxy: Coalition now 12 points in front.

Poll finds Prime Minister Julia Gillard a three-way failure.

LABOR’S experiment to elect Julia Gillard as leader has been a “spectacular failure” with two thirds of voters believing the government is now demonstrably worse than two years ago when Kevin Rudd was dumped.

And they have delivered a damning assessment of Ms Gillard’s ability to deliver on three key promises – to fix border protection, tackle climate change and share the wealth of the minerals boom though a mining tax.

The majority of voters believe Ms Gillard failed on climate change through a broken promise not to introduce a carbon tax, with 59 per cent believing it would not reduce greenhouse emissions, according to the latest Galaxy poll.

A similar number was unconvinced Labor was spreading the benefits of the mining boom to working families.

But the PM’s greatest failure has been on border protection. A decisive 80 per cent of voters claimed she had failed to stop asylum seeker boats.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 11:39 am
Blair doesn’t post much these days anyway, mOnty, and it seems a larger than previous number of posts are about cars or car racing.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 11:40 am
I always like sentences like this. Black or white, no bullshit equivocation and straight to the point.

LABOR’S experiment to elect Julia Gillard as leader has been a “spectacular failure” with two thirds of voters believing the government is now demonstrably worse than two years ago when Kevin Rudd was dumped.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 11:43 am
It’s because Gillard is female, innit? Sexists!

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 11:46 am
Potemkin’s Village

Of course, Daahling… here

Grigory Potemkin

18 Jun 12 at 12:00 pm
Two classics in quick succession from Grigory.

Thanx!

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:04 pm
I’m still not sure I understand Bryce’s involvement?

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 12:06 pm
SMH/Age to move to “compact” size like the AFR, i.e. tabloid.

I loved the way he could not bring himself to utter the word “tabloid” in that announcement.

Megan

18 Jun 12 at 12:07 pm
I loved the way he could not bring himself to utter the word “tabloid” in that announcement.

Yes, lol… To be honest, I never got the obsession with broadsheet format – too difficult to read (especially on the train)

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 12:09 pm
So let’s understand this. The only broadsheet now is the Australian. Lol.

That’s the paper the Alliance wants to close down through the Finkelstein maneuver. Lol

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:10 pm
Anyone know the number of people the Australian government sending to the climate Haj in Rio?

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:12 pm
Nofacts board not giving Gina seats on the board is a brilliant move. Protects Gina from any backlash over the “restructuring”.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:13 pm
Nofacts board not giving Gina seats on the board is a brilliant move. Protects Gina from any backlash over the “restructuring”.

Haha – can you imagine the squeals if she’d been on the board just prior to this announcement? It would have been fun to watch.

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 12:16 pm
Thence from tabloid to tablet.

blogstrop

18 Jun 12 at 12:17 pm
Gina and I are in the market looking for a firemen hose. Anyone know know you buy that crap.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:19 pm
#fairfax, The luvvies are bawlin’, trending #1 twitter.

Mark Phillips ‏@read_about_it
No way you can sugar coat this. This is one of the worst days in the history of Australian media. #fairfaxSarah

Lawrence ‏@sarahtlawrence_
Australia’s richest woman becomes the biggest shareholder in #Fairfax but they plan to cut 1900 jobs. #seemsironic

Paul Cochrane ‏@paulcochrane10
Do our media industry a favour today please. Buy a paper. Download an app. Save the free press! #Fairfax #NewsLtd

Barb ‏@BabsNation
I blame Tony Abbott. #Fairfax #Auspol

An Idle Dad ‏@AnIdleDad
I’d pay for news. Which means I won’t pay for #NewsLtd & will pay for #Fairfax until Rinehart gets her board seat #FairfaxtoGinafacts

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 12:20 pm
Yes of course. JC doing his little like dance about how it will all be so grand when all media, including the ABC, is as objective and balanced as he wants (meaning, of course, that they report things the way he thinks they should be reported.)

Nothing right wing fascist feeling about that at all…

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 12:24 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Was one stupid… here

Grigory Potemkin

18 Jun 12 at 12:25 pm
This is what you’re looking for JC

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 12:26 pm
Fuck off Stepford. if you can’t sell a leftwing paper because no one read that crap, it’s not my fault. Blame that on the management for keeping those loafing fuckwits on the payroll.

Markets work like this Stepford. Ignore consumer and you die.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:27 pm
Grigory, it’s the considered view of both CL and me (and such a rare joint opinion means it must be true) that Heiner obsessives are a bit nutty. Please stop.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 12:28 pm
The News Ltd people can make fun all they like but just as many of their number will get fired real soon now in their “transformation”. This is not about left or right so much, it’s basic economics. All newspapers will die in their current forms, unless propped up Weekend at Bernie’s style by billionaires.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 12:29 pm
Thanks James..Could be. I’ll talk to Gina about getting the armored truck. It could be used to volley the firees down the street and into the harbor or river as the finale to the reality show. have to check with occupational health first though.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:31 pm
BLAIR UPDATE V: Online reaction:

Jacinta Tynan: ?”And there goes quality journalism at Fairfax .. My thoughts are with colleagues with this tragic news.”

Mark Hides: ?”Need proof the sharemarket is evil? Fairfax shares up since jobs cuts announced!! I hope shareholders can sleep well at night!”

eutraphalia: ?”friend’s bro is a printer w/ fairfax….$150k p/a, works an 8 day fortnight. 10yrs service – looking at a good redundancy package.”

Fiona Scott-Norman: ?”On the plus side, if Gina takes over Fairfax, it will condition us for when the Chinese become the dominant superpower.”

Bruce Guthrie: ?”Fairfax cuts painful but overdue. Time for genuine innovation and editorial excellence. Let’s hope there are enough journalists to do it.”

Dan Nolan: ?”I have a way better business model for fairfax: sell Portuguese chicken.”

hahahahahaha.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:32 pm
What mOnty said.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 12:36 pm
The News Ltd people can make fun all they like but just as many of their number will get fired real soon now in their “transformation”.

Who is making fun of them, you dishonest little flea rake. Name them and show exactly what they said to make fun of the lazy slobs at Fuckedfax.

This is not about left or right so much, it’s basic economics.

Lol… oh yea. sure it wouldn’t be coming from you, Monster. Never is.

All newspapers will die in their current forms, unless propped up Weekend at Bernie’s style by billionaires.

Dickhead the News stable is keeping up its circulation. That’s because by and large consumers like their products and service. Consumers had a problem with Fuckedfax because it produces unreadable sludge.

the Age was below 100,000 on some days if the freebies were taken out according to a broker friend. They fucking destroyed that masthead. Not surprising when you’re focusing on competing with Greenleft weekly.

Fuck off Monster. Get those rusted metal filings unglued from you face.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:36 pm
As a person committed to fight the multitude of hate based Green/Left religions based upon a Platonic parodise structured around Marxist/Hegelian/Malthusian fallacies, I believe we have bigger fish to fry, but by all means enjoy yourself.

It was a terrific romp with intellectual firepower through the overnight thread though, wasn’t it? Just enjoyed it with my morning coffee looking out at a water panorama (hi to Abu of The Garden).

Have just returned from a hostile altercation with a team of proselytizing greenies in a shopping centre. Don’t know why they picked on me to accost and harrangue as I look like one of them in my homespun coat against the cold down here. Maybe they were looking for a sympathetic hearing. Not my best moment. I should be more calm and measured with them. Instead, they got a verbal belting.

They really are the main game right now with their horrible doomsday cult and simpering righteousness. My dander is up.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jun 12 at 12:36 pm
.Gina and I are in the market looking for a firemen hose. Anyone know know you buy that crap.

We used to steal them and use them as swings.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
What mOnty said.

Color me convinced, Stepford. Now go hang the washing.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:37 pm
Give ‘em heaps, Lizzie. Always.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 12:39 pm
God Lizzie – keep your smart phone handy for some real time filming next time – I would love to see the looks on their faces as you gave it to them with both barrels !

Myrrdin Seren

18 Jun 12 at 12:40 pm
Who is making fun of them, you dishonest little flea rake. Name them and show exactly what they said to make fun of the lazy slobs at Fuckedfax.

Have you not seen the Tim Blair stuff, with five updates? Open your eyes, moron.

Dickhead the News stable is keeping up its circulation. That’s because by and large consumers like their products and service.

No, you are lying JC, as usual. The industry dropped 4% in circulation last year, the Hun was in the middle of that band, the Telly was about 2%. The Oz was up slightly but off such a low base that it’s a blip compared to the News tabloids.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 12:44 pm
Have you not seen the Tim Blair stuff, with five updates? Open your eyes, moron.

I just took a look at Tim Blair’s blog. He hasn’t made fun of people losing their jobs you fucking liar.

The only thing he did was post tweets of leftwing idiots. That’s all.

No, you are lying JC, as usual. The industry dropped 4% in circulation last year, the Hun was in the middle of that band, the Telly was about 2%. The Oz was up slightly but off such a low base that it’s a blip compared to the News tabloids.

So basically News has flatlined while Fuckedfax went over a cliff. Thanks for confirming what i said.

Go away Monster. Shoo off and unglue the rusted metal filings off your face as it’s not a good look.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:51 pm
Looking at those figures is a healthy reminder of how pathetic The Australian’s figures really are. Yet people here seem to be under the impression that it is some sort of example of a paper that people actually want to buy.

As far as the healthy figures for the Melbourne and Sydney tabloids go, has anyone ever explained this as being simply due to their coverage of AFL and Rugby in particular?

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 12:52 pm
Jacinta Tynan: ?”And there goes quality journalism at Fairfax .. My thoughts are with colleagues with this tragic news.”

Mark Hides: ?”Need proof the sharemarket is evil? Fairfax shares up since jobs cuts announced!! I hope shareholders can sleep well at night!”

Ahahahahaha.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 12:52 pm
#FairFax
Adam Bandt ‏@AdamBandt
If #Fairfax cuts that many jobs, I’m worried for the future of independent, well-resourced journalism in Aust

Joel Fitzgibbon ‏@fitzhunter
@AdamBandt #Fairfax, the more market dominance, the more we should be concerned about self-regulation!

Keep it short buddy. ‏@TRENTORIA
Microstory #578: In the end there was just one pen. One pen wielded by one person. And the opinion of one was all that one read. #fairfax

Self regulation, yep need more government interference.

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 12:53 pm
So let’s get this straight.

There is only one grubby tabloid under investigation by the police for hacking and it’s the Age.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 12:55 pm
Yet people here seem to be under the impression that it is some sort of example of a paper that people actually want to buy.

Ummm well yes, it is. It’s the best news paper in the country.

I hope you’re not suggesting anything in the Fuckedfax stable is comparable. Are you stepford? Ummm

JC

18 Jun 12 at 12:55 pm
Looking at those figures is a healthy reminder of how pathetic The Australian’s figures really are. Yet people here seem to be under the impression that it is some sort of example of a paper that people actually want to buy.

No. The only people who obsess about The Australian are the demented mouth breathing left.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 12:57 pm
The News Ltd people can make fun all they like but just as many of their number will get fired real soon now in their “transformation”.

No they won’t, because their circulations aren’t in freefall like the SMH and The Age – a direct result of the collapse in editorial standards ar Fairfax. FXJ is being punished for producing a product consumers don’t want. You’re getting what you wanted, Monty. FXJ journalists were writing for the extreme left of society and not the majority. People aren’t stupid. They knew they were being fed bullshit. So they stopped reading it. If you were an adult, you’d understand.

Tom

18 Jun 12 at 12:59 pm
Climate Haj, JC.

lol

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jun 12 at 12:59 pm
Look at the figures, JC.

Unless I’m missing something, the M-F sales of SMH and Age combined is nearly 3 times more than the Australian.

Did you know that?

Care to explain how such appalling left wing papers (according to you) manage to outsell the best news paper in the country?

Go on now, and swearing in the response will be taken as a sign of defeat.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 1:00 pm
I just took a look at Tim Blair’s blog. He hasn’t made fun of people losing their jobs you fucking liar.

The only thing he did was post tweets of leftwing idiots. That’s all.

“Fairfax rolls the dice”? I bet he didn’t call his post about the News paywall “News rolls the dice”, if he posted about it at all. I don’t see any post from him on the News Ltd transformation. Double standard.

So basically News has flatlined while Fuckedfax went over a cliff. Thanks for confirming what i said.

You said: “the News stable is keeping up its circulation”. No, News Ltd papers have been part of the overall trend of bleeding readership. So you lied. No surprises there.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:00 pm
Phrase of the year: Climate Haj.

LOL.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:02 pm
No they won’t, because their circulations aren’t in freefall like the SMH and The Age

Actually if you look at the figures, they are also in freefall. Not as quickly as Fairfax, granted, but it’s inevitable.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:03 pm
Monster, you duplicitous hardwired lunatic.

Sensitive lefties like you were laughing and making jokes about Blair when he was diagnosed with bowel cancer.

Now you’re all sore because he posts a few funny tweets about those leftwing trolls at Fuckedfax getting the boot?

Get the fuck out of here, you tribalist moron.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:04 pm
SMH & Age weekend editions are a bit under double the Weekend Oz sales.

Go on JC, an explanation please.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 1:04 pm
Looking at those figures is a healthy reminder of how pathetic The Australian’s figures really are. Yet people here seem to be under the impression that it is some sort of example of a paper that people actually want to buy.

The Oz’s circulation gains, unique among Australian dailies, is a gift from Fairfax. So, yes, it is a product people want to buy and they’re voting with their hard-earned. It’s one of only a tiny minority of newspapers that’s successful in spite of the fact that it has no hometown.

Tom

18 Jun 12 at 1:06 pm
Grim milestone…

White House Dossier: Obama Plays Golf for the 100th Time of his Presidency.

Obama’s golfing takes about five hours, including the motorcades back and forth from the fairways. If one thinks of this as taking up much of the day – include getting ready to go and cooling off afterward – its fair to say that Obama has spent more than three months of his presidency golfing.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:06 pm
Oddly, I was setting fire to newspaper in the backyard with a magnifying glass yesterday.

Sort of prescient, hey.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 1:07 pm
It’s one of only a tiny minority of newspapers that’s successful in spite of the fact that it has no hometown.

Looks to me like an expensive paper to run for such a low readership. But mOnty know more about that, I think.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 1:09 pm
Fashion news: Royal Ascot bans the fascinator.

Tough but fair.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:09 pm
If you were an adult, you’d understand.

‘sactly. Monster is a fat headed child.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:10 pm
Is that all you’ve got, JC? A vague reference to “lefties” without any evidence? That is the weakest post you have made this week, and that’s saying something because your normal mode is about as weak as a slap from Christopher “Wet Lettuce” Pyne.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:10 pm
Have you not seen the Tim Blair stuff, with five updates?

Keeping up to date with events is “making fun”.

This stuff is champagne comedy.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:11 pm
Gillard to Europe: ‘burn down some houses, like we did.’

“We stimulated in the downturn,” Ms Gillard told a business summit on the sidelines of the G20 meeting.

“When growth was threatened by the onset of the global financial crisis, our fiscal response was timely, temporary and targeted.

“This was coupled with a clear set of fiscal rules to ensure we returned the budget to surplus when growth returned to trend.”

Swan calls on Europe to boost investment.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:12 pm
A vague reference to “lefties” without any evidence?

Vague? You fucking idiot how is it vague when I explicitly say lefties were making fun about him getting cancer.

You think it was vague because I wasn’t certain of the type?

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:14 pm
It was vague because you didn’t name names, idiot.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:16 pm
Here monster, it could have been one of these.

adenocarcinoma
leiomyosarcoma
lymphoma of the colon
melanoma of the colon
neuroendocrine tumors

Dunno if there are others.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:16 pm
You were flailing in pitiful fashion, JC. You were trying to claim I’m the sort of person who would laugh at someone getting cancer because some unnamed lefties supposedly did once. Weak as water, like always.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:18 pm
JC, we should run a book on when Hywood gets the bullet at FXJ. He’s a major part of the problem; he thinks propaganda dressed up as news is “quality journalism”.

Tom

18 Jun 12 at 1:22 pm
You were trying to claim I’m the sort of person who would laugh at someone getting cancer because some unnamed lefties supposedly did once.

Nope, however I wouldn’t totally discount the fact that you would have found it funny seeing you tribalize with these sorts.

Steve from brisbane would have thought it was a great joke for instance. he possibly laughed about on his blog.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:23 pm
Remember when they said the MB will never be in power?

Egypt Muslim Brotherhood claims victory

A new sign for Egypt: Abandon all hope.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 1:24 pm
JC, here’s what I actually wrote:

I’ve been remiss in not earlier sending good wishes to Tim Blair, but I particularly wanted to say that I think he did a considerable public service by describing the course of symptoms he went through in the lead up to the diagnosis of bowel cancer.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 1:28 pm
Please keep bringing us those tweets, I can not believe the sheer number of morons who are proving their stupidity to the world.

Mark Hides: ?”Need proof the sharemarket is evil? Fairfax shares up since jobs cuts announced!! I hope shareholders can sleep well at night!”

Would they be the shareholders that bought around $5 or $2?

Token

18 Jun 12 at 1:29 pm
We really shouldn’t interrupt JC’s fabulist narrative with the truth like that, Steve. JC is a sensitive soul, I’m not sure he can take such a dose of reality.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:30 pm
Swan calls on Europe to boost investment.

Hahaha, no wonder they gave him the crown as the world’s best treasurer.

Hey Swannie, bleat all you like, the lot of the eurocrats are in the toilet as they all blew their savings buying over-priced condo’s on the Costa del Sol which they can’t offload.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 1:33 pm
Union members deserting the Kenyan in droves. In droves.

Interesting column by Clark Judge of U.S. News that points to disaffected union workers who might, just as they did for Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, come out quietly in favor of Mitt Romney over Barack Obama.

Reagan Democrats coming home again.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:37 pm
hahhahahahahahahahahaha Left losing it.

Bill Maher: ‘The Problem With Racism Is Matt Drudge’…

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:41 pm
No wonder Blair’s going after Fairfax despite News also sacking hundreds. Talk is of Rinehart poaching Bolt to Fairfax after she gets a board seat or two.

Strange how Bolt has not mentioned the event at all on his blog. Hehe, either he is busy in meetings to make it happen, or alternately he is playing with Lefty minds.

Full details of the Fairfax restructure.

1900 jobs gone, 20% editorial.

M0nty, you were a smart man to get into a productive job.

I remember you said you were likely to be looking for houses in the next year. Looks like there will be some buying opportunities in the Northcote / Fitzroy / Brunswick triangle in the coming months.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 1:44 pm
Well this comes as a complete surprise. Harry is worried about the end of the world.

Who could have guessed it. I hope he takes over from Senior mark Bahnisch as I always like his doomsday jives.

Will humanity perish (soon)?

Yes it is an untypically narrow question but with zero expertise…..I’ll have a go. With no background in the relevant cosmology or philosophy area I have been reading philosopher John Leslie’s The End of the World. It has always seemed to me that accounting for possibilities, such as the end of the human species, in economic analysis was being a bit esoteric. After reading Leslie’s account of the Carter ‘doomsday argument” I am not so sure. The completely a priori philosophical argument on the “doomsday” issue in Leslie doesn’t convince me – I am probably not a skilled enough Bayesian to fully appreciate it – although I am unable to discredit it with obvious counterarguments – these are addressed in the Leslie book anyway. The empirical part of the book looks at the various ways the human world might end. It is more straightforward and more convincing. Like Leslie I do worry about North Korean military idiocy and the possibility of run away climate change that kills us all.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 1:48 pm
On ABC PM today, an ‘expert’ guest who says Obama is struggling because too many voters have decided to get rid of da black man.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 1:52 pm
Whoops, there is Bolt’s 2c on the topic.

If the worst happens, it will be competing with Crikey and the free on-line content of the ABC. That’s a market that would justify the employment of only a few dozen journalists.

I suggest he won’t be jumping ship on that summary.

Whoever takes over as editor of the merge Sydney Morning Age will be working to keep the land and building, forget about the furniture.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 1:52 pm
Sarah Palin explains why Matt Drudge succeeded whilst Fauxfax fails

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 1:52 pm
Token, if Rinehart pumps millions back into the company as part of a full takeover, I am tipping he’d change his tune. Still, it’s only idle speculation at the moment.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 1:59 pm
New you can use:

21 Kate Upton gifs.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 1:59 pm
Just notice Sinc put up a new policy on how to treat Trolls…

http://catallaxyfiles.com/trolls/

Hint: It doesn’t seem to involve hugging and asking about feelings…

Token

18 Jun 12 at 2:00 pm
Just notice Sinc put up a new policy on how to treat Trolls last night.

Hint: It doesn’t seem to involve hugging and asking about feelings…

Token

18 Jun 12 at 2:01 pm
#Fairfax: PWAF has a poke. (PWAF)

Prick With A Fork ‏@pwafork
When your business model is “But everyone knows News Ltd is eeevvvvuuuuullllll!”, predictable hilarity ensues. #fairfax

Prick With A Fork ‏@pwafork
If their editors had understood it was the Sydney Morning Herald, not the Balmain-Bondi Herald, Fairfax wouldn’t be in this mess. #fairfax

Brigadier Slog ‏@BrigadierSlog
No stopping Reinhart’s raid on #Fairfax, waiting for ad agencies to use “I hated the negative press so much I bought the newspaper”

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW
Is it time for me to swap journalism school for law school? #Fairfax

JLLLOW ‏@JLLLOW
This is what happens when the problem of media ownership isn’t treated as a public interest issue: theconversation.edu.au/fairfax-

John Harrison ‏@thedoctorsaid
#Fairfax #rivers_of_gold have turned to #iron_ore

Cassandra Payça ‏@CassandraPayca
@latikambourke I’m not opposed to the Government subsidising newspapers and alternative media, @turnbullmalcolm. #Fairfax

Peter Hinton ‏@peterjhinton
@cjoye Ockham’s razor. Why would Rinehart invest in time & money reshaping editorial opinion at #Fairfax when she can just kill it?! #auspol

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 2:02 pm
@latikambourke I’m not opposed to the Government subsidising newspapers and alternative media, @turnbullmalcolm. #Fairfax

Fme. He really is an arseclown.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 2:04 pm
Token, if Rinehart pumps millions back into the company as part of a full takeover, I am tipping he’d change his tune. Still, it’s only idle speculation at the moment.

You have been very frank when talking about the future of journalism. Your warnings about Newscorp are worth listening to. Once old man Murdoch passes, I suspect like Packer Jnr, his heirs will not have the same passion to keep all those papers afloat.

Do you think that any proprietor in which journalism runs in their veins would tip millions to save these papers, let alone a women who has no history in media and whom too many of the journalists have gone out of their way to insult?

Token

18 Jun 12 at 2:09 pm
Bluddee hell – I’ve just found out about the massive changes at envirofax!

Hahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!

Rabz

18 Jun 12 at 2:16 pm
IT, I don’t think that was Malcolm saying that, when at latikambourke I see she has tweeted:

Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull ‘nobody wants the Government subsidising newspapers.’

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 2:17 pm
If I am right, I await your profound apology to Mr Turnbull.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 2:18 pm
I still don’t see how they’ve gonna induce people to
pay for a bunch of words on screen, it’s not a book or anything with longlasting value you can read again or give to someone else, just opinion columns you read and forget the next day.

candy

18 Jun 12 at 2:18 pm
candy in 1440: “the printing press? How’s anyone going to make money from the printing press?”

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 2:21 pm
Do you think that any proprietor in which journalism runs in their veins would tip millions to save these papers, let alone a women who has no history in media and whom too many of the journalists have gone out of their way to insult?

The former is precisely what Murdoch has been doing. The latter is precisely what has happened at some other newspapers, as per the examples of Russian oil oligarchs and Silvio Berlusconi quoted by Andrew Jaspan. The Bolt to Fairfax rumour was started by Jaspan, BTW.

This is what happens in a long-term two-speed economy. The resources billionaires are the only ones with money to burn, propping up old media vehicles to spread their self-serving agendas. The mining giants spent $20 million fighting the MRRT at the last election and saved themselves $20 billion in tax bills. 10,000% ROI. That’s the only economics that works in this situation.

m0nty

18 Jun 12 at 2:28 pm
Tweet by Blankets Holmes is picked up by Blair:

With only nine or so hours remaining before his 15-minute program is due to air, Media Watch host Jonathan Holmes can’t be expected to cover the biggest media story of the year

I’ll let Blair detailed how many staff he has for his little show.

I do find it a strange statement as when it comes to asking questions about stories to people on stories they are covering Media Watch is not afraid to drop the questions on the people at the last possible minute.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 2:28 pm
You’re right, Candy. How it’s supposed to work: newspapers (and their websites) research and publish information of public interest that you can’t get anywhere else, so readers are happy to pay a small fee for the service. Fairfax stopped publishing unique information in the 1990s and replaced it with mainly political propaganda. In the process, they have almost succeeded in killing the company.

Tom

18 Jun 12 at 2:34 pm
This is what happens in a long-term two-speed economy. The resources billionaires are the only ones with money to burn, propping up old media vehicles to spread their self-serving agendas. The mining giants spent $20 million fighting the MRRT at the last election and saved themselves $20 billion in tax bills. 10,000% ROI. That’s the only economics that works in this situation.

They also saved a few hundred thousand jobs.

.

18 Jun 12 at 2:37 pm
Do you know somebody who is criticising the carbon dioxide tax? The Gillard government now wants you to report them to the police:

ACCC launches carbon claims hotline.

THE consumer watchdog has launched a carbon price claims hotline to help guard against businesses who make false claims about the carbon tax.

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Rod Sims said its carbon price claims hotline would “make it easier for consumers and business to complain if they suspect false price claims are being made about the carbon price”…

To report a claim or for further information on the ACCC’s role in relation to carbon price claims, visit http://www.accc.gov.au/carbon.

Suspect claims can also be reported on 1300 303 609.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 2:37 pm
Wayne Swan in Paliament:

call 1300 303 609

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 2:45 pm
Terrorists back Gillard:

Sea Shepherd offers to police Coral Sea.

ANTI-whaling crusaders Sea Shepherd have offered to help the Australian government police a proposed marine park in the Coral Sea against illegal fishing.

In a statement, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society made the offer, after former federal Liberal MP Peter Lindsay said it would not be possible to properly police the proposed park.

Sea Shepherd says it will provide vessels and welcome representatives of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority aboard their ships.

“The organisation would work alongside the appropriate Australian authorities to design strategies, implement appropriate programs and facilitate prosecution of illegal fishing activities,” Sea Shepherd said.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 2:48 pm
#fairfax: Kirk nails it, shut down their left biased government funded competition then all will be OK.

Kirk Fletcher ‏@kirkfletcher
If they didn’t have to compete with public funded ABC for lefty audience, maybe they’d be OK MT @abcnews Follow our live blog of #Fairfax…

Jonathan Green ‏@GreenJ
meanwhile RT @LatikaQT: after trying to link #Fairfax job cuts to the carbon price, Brandis’ final supp is abt the carbon tax lie. #SenateQT

Jonathan Swan ‏@jonathanvswan
Brandis is just saying out loud what we all knew: The carbon tax is killing Australian newspapers. #qt #Fairfax

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
It would be the ‘destruction’ of #fairfax if it were to give over its charter to the interests of Gina Rinehart, says Conroy. #SenateQT

Latika Bourke ‏@LatikaQT
Conroy – says Turnbull understands the concept of public trust in journalism and I can only agree with him. #Fairfax #SEnateQT

Mrs Ted Baillieu ‏@Mrs_TedB
Ted feels sorry for anyone who has to work! RT @alisavage: #springst Premier says he was briefed on #fairfax jobs, feels sorry for workers

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 2:51 pm
And now for something completely different from atheists proselytising their religion

This asinine trope reminds me of the time Christopher Hitchens ridiculed Bill Maher for making jokes about George Bush as being “the joke even stupid people can make”.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jun 12 at 3:00 pm
Wayne Swan in Paliament:

call 1300 303 609

LOL

.

18 Jun 12 at 3:01 pm
FMD their mentality!

JR ‏@jrNSW
@fitzhunter @AdamBandt if #andrewbolt writes for #fairfax I might as well live in russia. What the f r u blokes doing? http://bit.ly/Mk211q

Rudiau

18 Jun 12 at 3:02 pm
Kirk Fletcher ‏@kirkfletcher
If they didn’t have to compete with public funded ABC for lefty audience, maybe they’d be OK MT @abcnews Follow our live blog of #Fairfax…

We’ve had a few discussions about that here in the past. I continue to be puzzled why no other media agency gets serious about challenging News in providing news for the people on the right and centre right.

Since that time the Global Mail was started which provides another piece of competition on the far left, for no cost.

I remember asking mystified why the Fairfax journalists were so pally with the ABC. In any other sector there would be the mother of all turf wars going on. Fairfax and Crikey would be trying to kill off the ABC.

The answer was and is they are so just so economically illiterate and fiscally incompetent.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 3:06 pm
We should flood that number with complaints about the ALP.

Wayne Swan ‏@SwannyDPM

If Australians are concerned about misleading behaviour in relation to carbon pricing,they should contact the ACCC immediately 1300 303 609
–
Kirk Fletcher ‏@kirkfletcher

FIFY MT @SwannyDPM Aussies concerned about ALP’s misleading behaviour re carbon pricing should flood 1300 303 609 with colmplaints #auspol

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 3:07 pm
We’ve had a few discussions about that here in the past.

Yes, it’s actually the lefty rags that should be most annoyed by ABC, but the lefty journalists are too stupid to realise.

We should all be thankful to Gina, otherwise they’d probably be going to the government – begging bowl in hand.

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 3:11 pm
Fleeced unfortunately the ACCC only takes complaints about corporations or companies

And the current Labor pollies are not a corporation

But wouldn’t be great if they were

val majkus

18 Jun 12 at 3:14 pm
Fleeced unfortunately the ACCC only takes complaints about corporations or companies

Oh, I know they can’twon’t act on it… but that doesn’t stop it wasting their time

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 3:18 pm
Somebody should tweet that all complaints about the incoming carbon dioxide tax can be directed to 1300 303 609.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 3:41 pm
Blankets – “We don’t do last minute at #mediawatch.”

Neither does ABC News 24.

H B Bear

18 Jun 12 at 3:43 pm
Fisky,will we have a dob in number to call come the revolution?

Tal

18 Jun 12 at 3:45 pm
These clowns still don’t get it:

Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance house committee member Ben Schneiders said journalists wanted to produce independent journalism and wanted to hear from management about how that would happen with job cuts.

“We want urgent talks with management on where cuts will fall and we want to ensure all cuts are voluntary.”

“We are worried that media ownership is already very concentrated,” he said.

But there will be no luvvy bailout:

Senator Conroy appeared to rule out any federal government support for Fairfax.

And Turnbull is almost as terminally stupid as FXJ’s Green target audience:

Mr Turnbull said the problem for Fairfax was not a lack of readers but that revenue had migrated on to other platforms.

Tom

18 Jun 12 at 3:53 pm
These clowns still don’t get it:

They never will. It’s the same with the suot industry. Car sales are down thus the grubberment must give them money…so they can lose that too. Madness.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 3:55 pm
Sea Shepherd offers to police Coral Sea.

Sure. Put eco-terrorists in charge and paid for by the taxpayers. What could possibly go wrong?

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 3:59 pm
I see Essential poll is out at 56/44 too.

Looking at primary vote, you can see that all that has basically happened is that 5% of Labor voters have gone to Coalition. The Greens seem to poll less strongly on Essential than other polls, but they are absolutely stuck on at least 10%, and their preference is going to be almost exclusively Labor.

The left vote may as well be counted as 43%, then, with Coalition at a pretty steady 49%.

I don’t care what anyone says, there are reasons to believe that Abbott being evasive to as late as possible about government spending cuts, and “say nothing” approach to IR reform, will mean in an election campaign that some percent will flow back to the left side.

Labor will continue polling poorly for some time after the carbon “tax”, but as with the GST, people will get used to it. Eventually.

Panic merchants within Labor who think this is all Gillard’s fault have to face facts: anything involving the word “tax” is going to be unpopular for a time, and dumping Gillard is going to do nothing to stop that.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 4:01 pm
Shorter SFB: LNP 49%:33%

2PP LNP 56%:44%

No hand waving necessary.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 4:04 pm
Mr Turnbull said the problem for Fairfax was not a lack of readers but that revenue had migrated on to other platforms.

lol… Yeah – to platforms where there were readers. What a clown. Seriously, jc and others should hang their head in shame for ever thinking highly of Turdball.

Fleeced

18 Jun 12 at 4:05 pm
LNP up by 12%. ALP defeat assured.

All is well. Carry on.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 4:06 pm
Brilliant analysis liar.

Keep up the good work.

JamesK

18 Jun 12 at 4:07 pm
Gina now owns 18.7% of Failfacts, only 1,29% to go Gina.

Tony says: well done.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 4:09 pm
JC

More from Hammy at the trop.

The conservatives I know are invariably rather dense, and devoid of any depth of thinking capablity, as well as uneducated. Almost universally the university-educated people I know have a correct attitude to political issues.

This suggests that hammy him/herself is not university-educated people. NTTAWWT.

Peter Patton

18 Jun 12 at 4:09 pm
Of course Tony would, Gab.

The thing is, he’s going to be on the outer with her until he does a Barnaby and stops believing in (or pretending to believe in) AGW as an issue that needs to be addressed.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 4:13 pm
Gillard’s Dirt Unit strategy sure has worked a treat.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 4:14 pm
God, I love Julia Gillard.

I thought Rudd was the gift that kept on giving, but Julia is in another league. Every scratch-of-the-blackboard utterance delivers votes by the truckload to the conservative side.

And now we are to have, in quick succession, the preposterous spectacle of this economic illiterate lecturing the G20 as to what should be done for Europe, from a rhetorical lectern made possible wholly and solely by an industry she hates; followed by the sheer mind-boggling sanctimony of Gillard turning up to Rio expecting to wallow in adulation for her carbon tax and marine park. The look on her face when that worthless crowd of public-purse bandits and emission-belching professional junketeers applaud her will be nauseating, but beautiful in its effect on voterland as they see this country’s interests sold out to the most cynically parasitic crowd of self-appointed grandees since Louis XVI hightailed it out of Versailles. The international climate-conference class makes the IOC delegates look almost classy; they make even the princes of the global bureaucracy like DSK look noble of purpose.

Everything this person has said, done or thought in her entire life alienates her from real voters. I love her.

James in Melbourne

18 Jun 12 at 4:14 pm
That story was and remains a complete beat up, CL.

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 4:15 pm
Keep dreaming, SFB.

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
Everything this person has said, done or thought in her entire life alienates her from real voters.

Mmm yes. Me and 33% of other Australians, not to mention another 10% of Greens count for nothing, James?

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 4:17 pm
Gina to Fairfax reporters: ‘Iron my blouse.’

Rinehart confirms Fairfax share raid as company announces 1900 job cuts.

C.L.

18 Jun 12 at 4:18 pm
Steve, I said ‘real’ voters – not those hermetically sealed in a public-sector bubble, or members of GrowUp. Those who have to earn a living.

James in Melbourne

18 Jun 12 at 4:20 pm
Imagine the FXJ price if Gina decided to dump her holding? She should do it just for shits n’ giggles.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 4:20 pm
Really terrible about Flailfax no longer in print. Think of the bird cages!

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 4:21 pm
Gillard is urging the G20 leaders to ‘follow the Australian way’
She’s so embarrassing
Why do we let her out of the country?

val majkus

18 Jun 12 at 4:23 pm
Steve from B: “I am the 33%!”

How freaking sad.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 4:24 pm
Why do we let her out of the country?

Why the hell do we let her back in?

Gab

18 Jun 12 at 4:25 pm
43%

steve from brisbane

18 Jun 12 at 4:27 pm
the Labor party is making people feel a bit anxious with things like the big marine park that will half kill fishing industry, and no border protection. and increased electricity prices.
they seem a bit out of control actually, where’s it all heading

candy

18 Jun 12 at 4:29 pm
I’ve opened a new open forum.

Sinclair Davidson

18 Jun 12 at 4:29 pm
Might as well be zero for all the influence you nongs are going to have in the next decade or two.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jun 12 at 4:30 pm
Gillard is urging the G20 leaders to ‘follow the Australian way’
She’s so embarrassing

Which bit?

* Make a specifically promise not to implement a tax on plant food, then turn around an implement it?

* Promote a man with a track record of being extremely creative and dodgy with parliamentary expenses to be speaker (i.e. responsible for those expenses)?

* Protect a man who spent the funds held in trust for the poorest workers in the country on prostitutes and other unaccounted for expenses?

* Promise to set up a camp to process illegal immigrants on the soil of another country without asking anyone but the ceremonial head of state?

I imagine with all the economic problems that lot are facing, Gillard is the last person they’ll listen to.

Token

18 Jun 12 at 5:26 pm
Got asked to a dinner with other traders in NYC in august by email. Look what is says:

Details: Dinner details see above
Date: 1st week of August
Locale: secret
Dress code: Don’t show up like a fucking vagrant

JC

18 Jun 12 at 5:28 pm
Oops rong fred.

JC

18 Jun 12 at 5:29 pm

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