Julia, think about the carers!

UPDATE. This discussion has moved on. We  no longer want this scheme. We want to help people who actually need help and weed out the rorts. Disband the Department of Human Services,  provide assistance for people with genuine needs through  local charities. Think about the carers, not bureaucrats and social workers.

Not surprisingly the PM, and a lot of other people not aligned with the ALP are livid about NSW and Vic for dragging their feet on the National Disability program trial.

But hang on a minute. This is a major Government initiative but all they can find is a meagre 1 Billion over four years. How much is pledged to the great white elephant of the NBN and the pigs trough of money for Green energy? Get real fellas. And look at the sloppy planning.

Thousands of people are living lives of quiet desperation looking after multiply  handicapped family members. That is why I have so much contempt for the Same Sex Marriage brigade. Nobody is suffering for want of same sex marriage. Get  your freaking priorities in order and do something to help people in genuine need.

And the Government can get its priorities in order as well. Think about the carers and put some real money on the table. But before that, see if you can get some  half decent planning in place so the money is not dissipated in admin costs.

Fair comment from Troppo.

When NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell not unreasonably pointed that out and suggested that it was just a part of a plot to pressure the States into long term funding they simply couldn’t afford, Prime Minister Gillard said that “funding arrangements for the trials would have no bearing on how the final scheme is funded.”  Really?  Try asking Ms Gillard whether the Commonwealth will commit to funding the whole $8 billion itself.

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56 Responses to Julia, think about the carers!

  1. stackja

    It is always the Coalition’s fault. The compliant media helped create this mess, and gullible voters. If Julia really cared she would call an election.

  2. candy

    What does the insurance in NDIS mean i wonder. it’s more like more welfare by the sounds of it.

    That’s okay, (genuine) carers need assistance, but what’s the trial all about, i don’t get it.

  3. Chris

    But hang on a minute. This is a major Government initiative but all they can find is a meagre 1 Billion over four years. How much is pledged to the great white elephant of the NBN and the pigs trough of money for Green energy? Get real fellas. And look at the sloppy planning.

    The federal government could only find 1 billion over 4 years, but the victorian government can’t even find 40 million over the same time period!

    I think its purely political point scoring. No doubt when Abbott gets elected the VIC/NSW/QLD government will look behind the sofa and find the required funds.

  4. Rousie

    A $9b Clean Energy Fund?
    No they can’t take it from the Fund because then it goes on-balance sheet & kills the promised surplus. Labor Values & all that.

  5. Poor Old Rafe

    Chris, there won’t be much to find behind the sofa by the time the Coalition gets onto the Treasury benches. Have you ever wondered why NSW and Vic are a bit short of cash?

  6. Louis Hissink

    Rafe,

    Remember that Gillard last night also stressed that it was “NEW” money.

    In the fiat money system we have she seems to have thus printed it? New money?

  7. Rousie

    O’Farrell also indicated on radio this morning that 65% of the $1billion in Federal funds was earmarked for administration & set up. That is some bureaucracy for a trial.
    Last chance for the comrades to make hay while the sun shines. Again, more of those Labor Values.

  8. Chris

    Rafe – well I’m talking about the state government sofas, not the federal ones. The ALP run states managed to find the money – not surprising since they’ll benefit from the extra federal money which the LNP run states have decided to turn down.

    The main focus of the liberal/national parties is to win the next federal election and if it means some unavoidable pain for those who would benefit from the NDIS trial then that’s acceptable collateral damage. Better than giving Gillard a PR win.

    btw I agree that the federal government should be funding NDIS better. Looks like the Gonski report is going to be ignored as well.

  9. Bruce

    This is the amazing thing about this government. They are so lacking in strategic intelligence its breathtaking.

    If Gillard had just announced that they were going to pay the whole $8 billion, and asked only for cooperation from the States, the scheme would have gone ahead immediately.

    Then come election time she could say, yes it was expensive, but yes it was necessary. And she would get nods of agreement from the voters. She would then have an unadulterated win to her name to campaign on.

    This seems so obvious to me. But, no, she’s picked a fight with the states that is so cheap and so infantile that she’s actually wasted the political benefit of the scheme!

    Why are these kiddies running our country?

  10. C.L.

    This is just the politically toxic and morally vomitous Julia Gillard trying to sell herself as Caring and Visionary. Like everything she touches, it has crashed and burned – largely because of her habitual stunt-driven mendacity and storied incompetence.

  11. Poor Old Rafe

    Chris I suppose the current ALP states will be as broke as Vic and NSW by the time they are thrown out.

    Tell us more about the Gonski report.

  12. Bronson

    Chris the current ALP states are deeper in debt than even the liberal states with no opportunity to reverse their situations any time soon. That is why they have absolutely no way of saying no to Gillard about any proposition she might care to put forward. These moribund states are totally dependent on the Feds to fund them they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.

  13. Token

    Barry O’Farrell answers the query of Chris well at 21:30 of the recording of the joint press conference when he fronts the old Lefty Michelle Grattan.

    22:00 He was not going to let Gillard stitch up the premiers and get away with saying the Feds were offering any additional money, and of the $1B offered by Gillard $650 MILLION goes to ADMIN & SET UP COSTS.

    Yes, the Premiers stopped Labor from creating more jobs for public servants at the costs of the carers!

  14. entropy

    As I recall, the Productivity Commission recommended that the states and territories stop running disability support schemes and the feds take over all responsibility with the NDIS.

    What is the point of all this trial business if it has a cost sharing arrangement? That would end up being built into the end product, which, no doubt like the Henry proposed resources tax, would bear no relationship to the original proposal.

    With this current mob in Canberra, it is impossible to rule out mendacious sabotage in all of their policy development.

  15. TerjeP

    Thousands of people are living lives of quiet desperation looking after multiply  handicapped family members.

    I don’t know how this scheme works. However based on what I have seen of the carers allowance in operation it is wide open to rorting and abuse and in some instances leads carers to nurture disability rather than nurture the disabled.

  16. Token

    I don’t get why more carers are not screaming. Of the $1B offered, $650 goes to bureaucracy.

  17. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Irrefutable proof No. 846,957,075 that Juliar the Red Barren was kissed on the twat by the f*ckup fairy at birth and has been relentlessly honing this, her one and only skill, ever since.

    CL’s right – “storied incompetence”.

    Juliar’s is an Incompetence that is already legendary: and independent universe of purest suck. Generations of politicians ten thousand years from now will know and tremble before it. They will blanch and void their bowels when their chief of staff murmurs those terrible and terrifying words ‘I think there might be a touch of Juliar in that, Minister’

  18. Rorting Carer

    @token – because most of us are completely buggered and watching a chance in a generation get stuffed up before our eyes, we can’t quite believe it. I think my hope started to fade the night they announced the pilot (well ahead of the PC schedule) with ONE BILLION DOLLARS in big writing and ‘over 4 years’ in very small print. As pure a budget stunt as you could hope for…

    @terjep 2 points.
    $114/fornight (carer payment) that’s supposed to pay for transport to and from distant hospitals, exhorbitant medical consumables etc isn’t much of a rort. Hell most of it goes on parking, drain-sponges and oximeter probes for us.

    Second, you could always continue basking in your ignorance of the proposed NDIS (as opposed to the Gillard abomination) or you could spend 10-minutes poring over the executive summary of what the PC proposed here

  19. Generations of politicians ten thousand years from now will know and tremble before it. They will blanch and void their bowels when their chief of staff murmurs those terrible and terrifying words ‘I think there might be a touch of Juliar in that, Minister’.

    “I am Ozymandias, King of Kings…” LOL

    It’s a vote-buying exercise; that’s all it is – timed just right to run out not long after the next election, while fattening the pockets of a new wave of bureaucrats. And if they win, they can dump it then and there. And if they lose, they can flog the Abbott government forever for dumping it. Craven filth.

  20. C.L.

    I don’t know how this scheme works. However based on what I have seen of the carers allowance in operation it is wide open to rorting and abuse and in some instances leads carers to nurture disability rather than nurture the disabled.

    Right, Terge. We already have disability being used as a political cloaking device for unemployment. With this scheme, that phenomenon would approach Klingon proportions. It would start with the social workers’ union redefining – which is to say, minimalising disability, definitionally.

    Newman has helped the country dodge a bullet here.

  21. JamesK

    Just under one in five (18.5%) Australians had a disability in 2009, according to new figures released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). This represents approximately 4.0 million people.

    The main disabling conditions reported in 2009 were back problems (15.6% of all persons with a disability) and arthritis (14.8%)..

    You could see this scheme wandering a lot farther afield than people who need daily carers and multiplying like a lethal virus mutation on a virgin population the next time the Left come to power.

  22. GK

    This is all politics for the PM as how many times do you hear her repeating the Hunter region, the Hunter people on and on. Its all about saving a labour seat. She does not care at all about this as can be seen with the planning. Even when she was in a Canberra disability school promoting this she did not even mention the ACT ALP members with her to praise the program all she did was repeatedly attack “the LNP” state governmets. Bloody disgraceful. They can find $168m for a bridge in vietnam, $50m to some green company in Korea, and billions elsewhere but she cannot find it here. Yes she can but she does not care and is going to go for political point scoring, and the MSM will follow her.

  23. Poor Old Rafe

    Rorting the disability pension (with the connivance of the Government and social workers) is a very different thing from looking after genuinely handicapped people.

    Maybe the funds should go through local private charities to minimise fraud and waste. Actually that is how health and welfare should have evolved, instead of the welfare state.

  24. TerjeP

    Rorting the disability pension (with the connivance of the Government and social workers) is a very different thing from looking after genuinely handicapped people.

    Yes but rorting the disability pension is not so different to rorting carers allowance. As JamesK points out above one in five of us is apparently disabled and the friendly people at the Department of Human services will be certain to help you get what you are owed. Does your husband have a back condition and rely on you for support? Well you should get carers allowance then.

    http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/carer-allowance

  25. Poor Old Rafe

    Throwing around some numbers.

    Around 4.5 million Australians – or about one-fifth of the population – have a disability of some kind. Of these, 760,000 people under 65 years of age have a severe or profound disability, meaning they “always or sometimes need help with a core activity or task”. Half-a-million Australians are primary carers of a person with a disability – the equivalent of the population of Tasmania. A further 2.4 million, or 10% of the nation, are non-primary carers. Yet disability does not even rate an outer ministry.

    Cancel the 4.5 million, we are not talking about people with bad backs who amazingly manage to play golf. Focus on the more realistic figure of 760,000. Maybe that is too high. But we are still talking about some hundreds of thousands of people with mixtures of mental, physical and intellectual handicaps. Many would have been in institutions before they were decanted into the community under the “normalization” plans in NSW and probably other states (a scandal in its own right).

    Any scheme is going to be rorted to some extent. Maybe this proposed scheme is fundamentally flawed. But don’t try to tell me that there is not a real need to help carers. Something as simple as more respite care would help.

  26. Infidel Tiger

    Around 4.5 million Australians – or about one-fifth of the population – have a disability of some kind.

    And yet the disabled bays are always empty at the shops. What gives?

  27. candy

    well there are some people going round with a sore back or an arthritic knee but looking after their own needs completely and get the disability, and spouse gets carers pension but there is no need to provide assistance.
    are there doctors signing them off permanently impaired or disabled

  28. sdog

    I don’t trust anything about this scheme because its supporters have been Orwellian in their dishonesty about it from the get-go.

    Calling it “Disability Insurance ? Really?

    If you want a disability insurance scheme, then go off and create one, pay your premiums into it just as you would for car or home insurance, and then just as car insurance will pay out if your car gets stolen and home insurance will pay out if your home burns down, disability insurance will pay out if you or a covered dependent become disabled.

    If you want a vastly embiggened welfare state and wealth redistribution system, if you want the State authorized to confiscate more money out of the paycheques of those who work and hand it out to those deemed “more deserving” of that money, then make the argument for that. “We want more free welfare money, and here’s why: […..]”

    But at least call it what it is – have some good grace and respect for those whose paycheques you want to raid and start from a point of honesty. It’s more welfare you want, not “insurance”.

  29. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Yes, there is a tremendous capacity for rorting in any ‘disability scheme’. I’d like to see some very strict parameters put on the level of ‘disability’ to be considered and the extent of care required before any ‘trial’ was initiated, let alone any full-scale welfare-type program.

  30. Poor Old Rafe

    OK, phase out the current scheme, disband the Dept of Human Services, let designated local charities administer the scheme and have it policed by advocates of the genuinely disabled to weed out the rorters.

  31. Tal

    They park in the parents with prams spot IT
    Goddamn sooks ( parents with prams that is)

  32. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Having said that, I also totally agree with Rafe that there are people doing it unbelievably tough with mentally and/or physically disabled kids and family due to the lack of institutional care and respite care. There are ways to address this deficit without creating a whole new apparatus of ‘insurance’ though.

    We also need to have some separation of ‘disability care’ from the needs of ‘aged care’.

  33. sdog

    But don’t try to tell me that there is not a real need to help carers.

    Maybe if the government didn’t confiscate so much of our earnings, ad maybe if the State (with our consent) hadn’t set itself up as the default carer and provider to anyone “in need,” then the private charity system would step up better.

    There are certainly a lot of genuine carers out there who genuinely need some help, both practical and financial. But don’t try to tell me that you think a government which sends $1200 “stimulus cheques” to dead people is the best-placed body to manage something like this.

  34. dover_beach

    Around 4.5 million Australians – or about one-fifth of the population – have a disability of some kind.

    Sounds about right to me when you include rusted-on Labor and Greens voters.

  35. Infidel Tiger

    If you look at the Greens vote at least 10% of the population is mentally disabled.

  36. dover_beach

    Ahahahahahahahahahahah

  37. Gab

    of the $1B offered by Gillard $650 MILLION goes to ADMIN & SET UP COSTS.

    Why even bother then? Sounds like it’s more public service jobs insurance than really helping those in need.

  38. Mark

    Stupid me. I pay $$$$ per year in income protection premiums..Is there a market failure here? Why can’t the vast majority of people becoming disabled as adults buy insurance?

  39. JamesK

    Social Security in the USA is made up of Disability Insurance and old age pension insurance.

    The tax is payroll tax and close to 2% payroll tax is for DI alone.

    The DI part of SS will be bankrupt by 2016 whilst the old age pension will be bankrupt circa 2030.

  40. twostix

    If you want a disability insurance scheme, then go off and create one, pay your premiums into it just as you would for car or home insurance, and then just as car insurance will pay out if your car gets stolen and home insurance will pay out if your home burns down, disability insurance will pay out if you or a covered dependent become disabled.

    I pay a whopping $12 a month out of my Super into a Death and Total & Permanent Disability scheme

    It’ll pay out $200,000 lump sum if I’m permanently disabled and unable to work.

    If this is indeed an “insurance scheme” I presume I’ll get a rebate (LOL as if).

    It’s simply a classic UK Labor Fabian style client state expansion from the mind of least imaginative person on the planet – Julia Gillard.

  41. Lazlo

    Liebor is just playing politics with a very hot issue. There is no will in the government to confront disability issues.

  42. twostix

    Why even bother then? Sounds like it’s more public service jobs insurance than really helping those in need.

    Gillard is desperately and pathetically trying to build UK Labour’s failed client state here. From 2006:

    Labour’s bulging client state now employs 44pc of people

    Nearly one in two adults in Britain is now receiving at least half their income from the State, a study of Britain’s burgeoning public sector shows today.

    Forty four per cent of people now work directly or indirectly for the public sector or depend on state benefits for much of their livelihood, according to figures obtained by The Spectator.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1511253/Labours-bulging-client-state-now-employs-44pc-of-people.html

  43. C.L.

    Graham Richardson today:

    ‘For Julia Gillard there are some good signs. She has gone a whole three months without making a major gaffe’

    Spoke too soon:

    Julia Gillard rejected states’ NDIS offer.

    Another wasted chance for Gillard.

    SNATCHING defeat from the jaws of victory is hard to do, but Julia Gillard is better at it than most. Her decision to reject a levy to fund the National Disability Insurance Scheme – put forward by the premiers on Tuesday – is yet another poor decision.

    Gillard needs a policy outcome that Labor can be proud of. Unfortunately, political timidity converged with policy selfishness, and the disabled are the ones left with a limited trial instead of a funding mechanism that could have allowed the NDIS to be rolled out nationally.

    Gillard wasn’t prepared to risk being attacked for instituting another tax with a new levy, despite all four conservative premiers backing the idea.

    Tony Abbott’s attacks have clearly rattled the PM’s confidence. And it seems she did not want to share credit for the NDIS, believing that she could score points over conservative state premiers by painting them as heartless for not stumping up funds for trials. But what’s the point of trials, especially in limited jurisdictions well below the numbers suggested by the Productivity Commission, if there is no agreement on funding the full operation of the scheme?

    As the commission noted, the states can’t fund an NDIS; they don’t have sufficient revenue streams. Gillard had a chance to show that she could be bold and make federalism work.

    Instead she has chosen to go to war with popular premiers, right at a time when her own standing in the polls could hardly be lower.

    The Grate Negoshater has bungled another one.

    And for the same old reason: hatred of Tony Abbott.

    She really is a disgraceful imbecile.

  44. Winston SMITH

    CL, when Juliar is in her dotage, childless and wandering the halls of Parliament House at midnight, you will be able on a quiet night to hear the shriek carried on the wind – “Aaarrggghh! AbbottAbbottAbbott! Aaaaarrrggghh!”
    And the rattling of keys as she tries to find the right one to stuff ballot boxes with.

  45. HeathG

    Rafe; – What was the point of the reference to the Marriage Equality campaigners. It’s a separate debate. Besides which – I can’t imagine its going to cost taxpayers that much to enable marriage equality, so why not just pass the damned amendments and be done with it?

  46. C.L.

    Because there’s no such thing as a homosexual ‘marriage,’ that’s why.

  47. Chris

    I pay a whopping $12 a month out of my Super into a Death and Total & Permanent Disability scheme

    It’ll pay out $200,000 lump sum if I’m permanently disabled and unable to work.

    Too bad if you you’re born with a disability or acquire one as a child before you are able to get insurance. And $200,000 is really not going to last you that long especially if your injuries require major modifications to where you live (can you fit a wheelchair in the room your toilet is in?)

    I do think the NDIS is badly (intentionally) named because its not insurance. Presumably was done so it doesn’t look like welfare.

    Think about the carers, not bureaucrats and social workers.

    Perhaps I’m being pedantic, but how about we think about the people with disabilities first and then the carers? Carers can often be the best advocates for the people they look after but they shouldn’t be the main goal of the NDIS.

  48. coz

    I still haven’t seen anything about how it actually works, just feelgood/bad button pushing gumpf of the ‘you wouldn’t want to not help disabled people would you?’

    If they can get it to the stage of negotiations and publicity then the (financial and other) structure of it is known, so why isn’t it being made public? Why the secrecy?

    Generally this stuff is similar to aboriginal funding, unless funding for end users is quarantined from admin/real estate/gatekeeper costs, very little gets to the end user.

  49. Chris

    I still haven’t seen anything about how it actually works, just feelgood/bad button pushing gumpf of the ‘you wouldn’t want to not help disabled people would you?’

    My understanding is that its pretty much a voucher based system. People with disabilities choose from various service providers and the care packages they need. Funding follows the person with the disability rather than directed towards a specific organisation.

  50. Chris

    I don’t have a link to description of how the NDIS works. But if you google for keywords like NDIS, voucher, system, etc you’ll find discussion about it (some people aren’t happy about, others like the IPA who proposed a similar model seem reasonably happy with the approach if not the detail).

  51. coz

    This is a bit less waffle and platitudes, although they reckon it’s not a voucher system.

    http://www.ncoss.org.au/content/view/6767/100/

    PSA doesn’t like it

    http://www.psa.labor.net.au/news/1335245515_10080.html

  52. Chris

    coz – I’ve seen some other reports that direct funding is available where the packages are not suitable. I guess its a bit like aged care funding where some people want to be able to do the admin overhead themselves or tailor it exactly to their specific needs and employ people directly rather than get a third party to do it. Would need some oversight though.

    Good to see that the NSW and Victorian premiers managed to find the money after all. Well NSW half of it, Victoria all of it.

  53. coz

    Seems like another exercise in highly paid jobs for cronies when you look at the number of ‘experts’ they want to pay. No requirement for these ‘experts’ to be disabled themselves.

    The Federal Budget provided a very welcome boost to the introduction of a proposed National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS). This builds on previous steps including the provision of $20m for technical and administrative developments, the establishment of a Select Committee at Federal and State Ministerial levels to oversee development and an Advisory Committee of nominated disability experts to guide the shape and progress of the Scheme.

    NSW is represented on the Select Committee by Minister Andrew Constance and on the Advisory Committee by Brendan O’Reilly, former head of ADHC and Department of Premier and Cabinet.

    I’d be guessing it will be quite similar to the time they disbanded the CES (commonwealth employment service) and basically sold off the whole ’employment’ sphere (ie clientele) to private enterprise, I don’t know that it’s any better at employing people, CES did an ok job of it.

    I guess it’s a done deal now anyway, lets see what happens.

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