The recent release of the Census, in association with other relevant statistics, clearly demonstrates that Canberra is unlike the rest of Australia. It has the highest average incomes, lowest crime rates, lowest proportion of minorities, highest educational achievements, highest rate of literacy, lowest unemployment rate, lowest rate of smoking, best roads, least traffic jams, and most expensive homes.
How can we expect Canberra public servants to understand and empathise with the rest of the country when they are so different? How can we expect them to design and implement policies when they are so out of touch?
Canberra public servants are highly sympathetic to asylum seekers and generally do not support policies that prevent asylum seekers arriving in Australia.
The Commonwealth Government – which has ultimate responsibility for the ACT – should build a large amount of low-cost housing for refugees which would be made available to the asylum seekers provided they agree to remain in Canberra for at least twenty years.
At a stroke, this policy would solve many problems. First, it would make Canberra more representative of the rest of Australia – Canberra’s average income would fall, its crime rate would increase, as would the unemployment rate. Second, it would provide support to Canberra residents who wish to increase Australia’s asylum seeker intake. Third, Canberra’s demographics would become more like other major urban areas.
Many of the new asylum seeker housing developments could be placed in Yarralumla, Red Hill, Forrest, Griffith, Aranda, Fadden etc where the strongest support for asylum seekers may be found.
At last Canberra would become a multicultural hub in Australia, with a dynamic large population of 1 million plus, much as was intended when Canberra was originally planned.
Brilliant idea. It would also give Canberra the opportunity to show their moral consistency or hypocrisy as the case may be.
Twodogs
28 Aug 12 at 4:53 pm
I have an idea. Entice but don’t force several Melbourne based Sudanese gangs to move to Canberra. That will wake up the natives, I’m sure. In fact it would be a great idea to see if there are any spare blocks for development in Andy Leigh’s street or vicinity.
Great idea Samuel.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:08 pm
I’m sure the public servants would love to have their hospitals full processing the arrivals, their schools full of boys who are technically 18 but look 25…
Token
28 Aug 12 at 5:08 pm
‘specially the co-ed schools. work a freaking treat.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:11 pm
I don’t think there is any evidence to show that asylum seekers are more prone to crime than the rest of the population. I understand there are indications to the contrary.
This is a commonly heard view about illegal immigrants in the US too, and equally false.
Canberra’s average income would certainly fall and unemployment rise though.
DavidLeyonhjelm
28 Aug 12 at 5:12 pm
I think Samuel is overlooking hidden unemployment in Canberra – people who notionally have jobs but don’t actually add any value.
Sinclair Davidson
28 Aug 12 at 5:17 pm
Dunno about that David. The illegal Hispanic crime rate is 4 times whites in the US. A higher rate obviously doesn’t apply to all comers, but if we avoid this skew it would be pretty high.
Following on, I agree that the rate wouldn’t necessarily be any higher, however it would be nice to palm of those groups with a higher crime rate onto Canberra and see how it all works out for them.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:19 pm
True. It would be close to 50%.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:19 pm
Wonderful idea, I’m sure the lovers of multicultualism in Canberra will heartily endorse it and put it into action asap.
Stephen Williams
28 Aug 12 at 5:25 pm
I like the idea. The ACT government is nominally progressive, they should have come up with it themselves.
“a dynamic large population of 1 million plus, much as was intended when Canberra was originally planned.”
It was originally planned for 75,000 people.
Jarrah
28 Aug 12 at 5:26 pm
perhaps the article is a joke? but regarding the crime up here Brisbane its the Lebanese boys who seem to cause trouble, they deal the pills at the clubs and stuff and carry knives (hope I’m not offending anyone with saying that) don’t think other groups of asylum seekers would increase crime much
candy
28 Aug 12 at 5:29 pm
Why not move the Department of Immigration to Dandenong, Sunshine or Lakemba? Think of the savings in rent.
H B Bear
28 Aug 12 at 5:31 pm
Canbeera Hospital could become a center for excellence in ritual FGM, after all Germaine says it’s okay.
The National Carillion could have a minaret added so the new Muslim residents can hear the call to pray. I’m sure Canberrans will open their hearts,homes, and wallets for the chance to experience a true multi cultural society.
Splatacrobat
28 Aug 12 at 5:35 pm
Isn’t there a Captain Emad in Canberra already?
Peter
28 Aug 12 at 5:43 pm
Canberra is the ultimate embodiment of white privilege in this country and I agree that the demographics must be changed to remedy this. According to a largely-unknown appendix to the Fisk Doctrine, two million Coptic Christians will be arriving over the next 10 years, so I’m sure about 1/10 of those will be delighted to move into Andrew Leigh’s electorate.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 5:44 pm
It will be valuable to get stats on # of people who set up a branch of Gillard’s Bed & Breakfast in the ACT.
Token
28 Aug 12 at 5:45 pm
It sure is.
Kids of public servants look down on those in the private sector.
It’s arse backwards.
.
28 Aug 12 at 5:47 pm
I’m sure andy would begin to refer to original owners with himself in mind.
It would actually be a fabulous idea to say have a couple hundred Christian Copts settle around Andy.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:49 pm
You are fucking kidding me. Serious?
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:49 pm
Umm..
1. There are around 350’000 people in Canberra. Adding 10-20k a year of refugees would be absorbed into this community without notice.
2. There already are significant numbers of refugees living in Canberra. Some fit in well, some struggle in public. Like any city.
3. Your idea has already been strongly pushed by many in the Greens for years. Many in the ACT would have no objection to a greater inflow if it meant better policies for this country nationally.
But hey, this is about the nicest Canberra bashing I’ve seen in a while. So, thanks!
Andrew Carr
28 Aug 12 at 5:50 pm
I have a mate who went to HS there in the mid 1990s and his Dad was a banker to diplomats. Yes, that’s what he reckons.
PS
Do we really want a more representative and more dynamic Canberra or Parliament?
I want them to leave me alone and be putt along very slowly.
.
28 Aug 12 at 5:51 pm
???
You’re all pigfuckers.
Do you know why? Because you are like a bad kid that lives at home. It doesn’t matter if you don’t pay the bills, someone else will pick up the tab.
.
28 Aug 12 at 5:54 pm
Candy, from what I can recall troublemakers have mainly been the Lebanese Muslims, the Christian community has assimilated much better.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/why_did_nixon_tell_us_the_opposite_of_the_facts/
Ivan Denisovich
28 Aug 12 at 5:54 pm
Who’s talking about going light. Carr? Bullshit da community would accept them without noticing.
Yea, all three of them?
Yea right. Only because they know it ain’t happening.
The only downside is that I don’t think we should punish anyone to be forced to live in that tax funded shithole. It’s unfair on the new comers.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:54 pm
I’d be the first to agree that Canberra is a bit of a bubble. But a rather nice bubble to live in if you’re a family – especially one with young kids.
There’s a very high interstate immigration rate. Thus the high education rates are due to attracting people from interstate. And this flows through to the schools – lots of well educated parents means a higher proportion of educated kids. And the unemployment rate stays lower because if people lose their job, they move back interstate where they came from as many do not have great family support living locally.
They are a bit different when it comes to low income housing too – they have historically tried to spread the public housing throughout the suburbs (yes even the expensive ones). So you get fairly small pockets of public housing rather than concentrated ghettos interstate. Overall its probably better for reducing disadvantage (less likely to get schools with concentrations of public housing students for example). But not so nice if you live right next to one – property crime rates for example are pretty high in Canberra – lots of two income household houses empty during the day and they don’t have far to carry their loot home.
I suspect that if there was a proposal to introduce a large amount of public housing in Canberra (paid for by the Federal government) for refugees that it would generally be pretty well received. As you say its a fairly rich and educated community, and its fairly progressive and capable of handling changes like this.
Chris
28 Aug 12 at 5:55 pm
Progressive.. lol
JC
28 Aug 12 at 5:57 pm
“Thanks guys, we’re better than everyone else”
Still too smug to accept the libertarian solution of looking after them with your own money – you want taxpayer funded salaries and taxpayer funded charities.
What a moral abortion you guys are.
.
28 Aug 12 at 6:00 pm
Late term too. Fucking disgusting attitude.
hey Chris, next paycheck give it a little thought that I’m paying some of it and I fucking despise you and your attitude and why I think the Fisk Doctrine is a very good idea.
JC
28 Aug 12 at 6:04 pm
LOL, I suspect so as well.
Just wait until they show up to Outpatients and find out the public health system they love is clogged up with the volumes seen in Melb, Sydney or Brisbane.
What happens when the time kids spend with teachers drops when the number of children who require special ed outpaces the supply in the schools.
Do you think that the social friction that occurs in cities and towns across Australia occurs because the people in those are just racist rednecks?
What do you say about the people who arrived as immigrants in the 50′s, 60′s and 70′s who have merged and enriched Australian society who are angry when the see what is given to the new arrivals? Would you call them rednecks?
Token
28 Aug 12 at 6:07 pm
Chris, we know you are morally superior to the rest of us. Did you set up a branch of Gillard’s B&B?
Token
28 Aug 12 at 6:08 pm
Build a wall around it.
Fill it with water.
Problem solved.
The unflushable turds of Canberra crap on the “mining boom” but somehow miss their own (largely) taxpayer funded boom.
“On my reckoning the top ten lists has four wealthy postcodes for the mining boom, three for the rest of the mixed economy, and three for the public sector. There’s no need to get into public service bashing but I guess the days of the brown cardigan brigade might be over.”
thefrollickingmole
28 Aug 12 at 6:08 pm
How to make Canberra more representative and more dynamic?
Simple, restore it as a sheep station…..
Sea Wolf
28 Aug 12 at 6:12 pm
Still is a sheep station, just different pens and paddocks.
I’m all for decentralizing the PS. There are quite a few of the 250,000 federal PS in Canberra. But what about the 1.8 million in the States? Hello?
Keith
28 Aug 12 at 6:17 pm
More Canberrans arrive.
Settle them in Canberra and then these stats should improve:
They ought to weigh them then like they propose doing to schoolkids.
Gab
28 Aug 12 at 6:27 pm
10k is not on the table, I’m sorry Andrew. Try 50k minimum. In fact, I’d shoot for 200k in a little under 12 months if we can get the houses built in time.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 6:48 pm
Of course it’s a “nice bubble”. So was Salisbury before Mugabe took over. But we are not going to let Canberrans live in undeserved privilege any longer, and bringing in 200,000 Copts will hopefully average things out with the rest of the country.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 6:51 pm
50,000+ Muslim asylum seekers be settled in Canberra as soon as possible.
Good idea.
They certainly have the wealth and facilities down there to welcome these troubled people.
C.L.
28 Aug 12 at 6:53 pm
The problem is: Canberra is built on stolen land. First, we must strip the assets from these privileged squatters and hand them over to the real owners. Then comes the demographic change that Canberrans will be given no say over. The baseline is 500,000 newcomers in 10 years, all living within a rock’s throw of Andrew Leigh’s front porch.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 6:58 pm
The extra housing costs can be paid for with a 30% salary levy on everyone who lives in Canberra. They won’t oppose this idea, because lots of Canberrans believe in higher taxes, and I think it’s a disgrace that these privileged elitists aren’t paying 80c on the dollar.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 7:00 pm
Of course not, they’re a compassionate lot. All about human rights they are.
Gab
28 Aug 12 at 7:02 pm
As an ex-Canberran of 5 years, selling up (the back-to-base alarmed home)and moving out into the real world. I think its an excellent idea to build a wonderland for overseas ‘clients’ arriving unannounced by boats, or shall I say, escorted or transferred to our wonderful efficient uniformed taxi service. Indeed, there is quite a bit of spare land around the parliamentary circle, all those parks that nobody seems to use with lake views. Although there is one area they may have a problem with. You know, the area, where the Australia Day riot started. Still I’m sure they have enough skilled interpretors, out of work psychologists to talk them through. Too bad Captain Emad fled, he could have set up an Advisory Council.
delfino
28 Aug 12 at 7:05 pm
Floriade is nice,they showcase lots of foreign plants,that’s a start
Tal
28 Aug 12 at 7:10 pm
Not sure Chris knows what he is talking about.
For starters, while there is some ouside movement into Canberra – largely from Queensland and, until recently, WA – there are very many third and even fourth generation Canberrans whose children and grandchildren dominate public sector recruitment. A study from a few years back showed that ANU graduates had by far the best chance of being picked for graduate entry programmes.
People of different backgrounds and levels of income do tend to be a little more integrated, particularly in the lower lying areas – property status in Canberra is set by elevation rather than location – but there are also significant swathes of unrelieved urban blight, places like Charnwood, Banks and large areas of Gunghalin. In Charnwood there’s a sort of charity supermarket run by a church and giving out free food, it’s always crowded.
But no one in the outer suburbs, even if they are relatively well off, actually make the decisions. The high fliers, the mandarins, the Ministerial staffers, the consultants and, of course, ther opinionists, tend to live inside a sort of green zone hexagon whose points are Ainslie shops, the Holy Grail Kingston, the Aubergine Griffith, Red Hill shops, Deakin shops and Tilleys in Lyneham. Apart, perhaps from the office cleaners, these people have no contact with anyone who dresses, behaves or thinks differently them, and wouldn’t have a clue where the Tuggeranong Hyperdome is, let alone ever been there. These people would welcome refugees so long as they were confined to Charnwood
Des Deskperson
28 Aug 12 at 7:14 pm
That’s total bullshit. I did my last few years in high in Canberra and the kids whose parents were discussed in any sense at all were the bloke whose dad owned a major meat distributor and the one whose dad owned a haulage company. Both because they were rolling in it and had tennis courts at home.
The others were kids whose dads were surgeons, again because they had big houses and European cars. Finally, the others who hot respect were the brothers whose dad was the Colonel of SASR.
Oh, sorry about that last one. I suppose technically he was a pube.
No one gave a shit about the public service at school. Your friend is simply a cock.
Abu Chowdah
28 Aug 12 at 7:14 pm
Every Canberra neighbourhood will be assigned a minimum 30% quota of refugees. If the number falls lower there will be an immediate head tax imposed. And a special Mordy law will be introduced making it a criminal offence to criticise government migration policies if you live in the ACT.
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 7:22 pm
Australia could have dozens of new ‘Canberra’ sized cities, with all the great facilities that cities of 300k can afford if planning laws were abolished and infrastructure responsibilities and funding delegated to regional councils or groups of councils.
Canberra is a ‘company town’ we just need to redirect all those resources to something actually producing something of value.
I also agree with the good professor, the majority of those risking their lives for a better future would inject some badly needed entrepreneurial spirit into the country.
Forester
28 Aug 12 at 7:23 pm
Fisky,The Doctrine just keeps growing
Tal
28 Aug 12 at 7:26 pm
I’ve always thought the same thing about Camberwell, Middle Park, Eltham etc. They love supporting the intake but don’t get to reap the first hand rewards of it.
Harold
28 Aug 12 at 7:29 pm
Abu Chowdah, you are absolutely correct.
delfino
28 Aug 12 at 7:30 pm
Hiroshima is a pretty nice place since they rebuilt it after August 1945.
Eyrie
28 Aug 12 at 7:31 pm
LOL
No, you’re lying.
.
28 Aug 12 at 7:33 pm
Doesn’t it just! In addition to the Doctrine, we are up to several Appendixes, Addendums, as well as an attachment of Secret Protocols that the public don’t need to concern themselves with too much, so long as they are happy to put up with the occasional 3am house visits that are likely to happen in mostly Leftist neighbourhoods. Oh shit, did I just let on too much about the Secret Protocols?
Fisky
28 Aug 12 at 7:41 pm
I have the perfect name for the new housing commission suburb: “Helfgott”.
The first stage will be called the “Piano Quays”……three Iranian families, two Sri Lankan, five Afghan families, three Ugandan families.
Splatacrobat
28 Aug 12 at 7:42 pm
hzh
28 Aug 12 at 7:56 pm
get your facts straight. most people in canberra are from other parts of australia, more often the smaller states rather than the two big cities.
Jim Rose
28 Aug 12 at 7:57 pm
Des Deskperson, when I was in canberra, meeting someone who grew up in canberra had novelty value. the public service did not move up there until the 1960s.
Jim Rose
28 Aug 12 at 8:00 pm
In the last 15 years Canberra has rapidly gone from being quite a nice city with an aussie country town feel (albeit suffering a dose of central planning autocracy) to a Stalinst run post WW2 eastern bloc ghetto.
Complete with psychopathic public sculptures, crime, violence becoming a city five times it’s size, hundreds of nondescript concrete “housing block’s” springing up all over, Graffiti everywhere, citizen paranoia and a bunker mentality.
Where like a Potemkin village the centre of town sports the flashest buildings and extravagence, one only need drive for ten minutes into the suburbs to be assaulted by masses of graffited boarded up schools, empty boarded up shops, un-tended public spaces and what was once great – now decaying infrastructure.
Crippling and ridiculous water restrictions have reduced the once beautiful suburban gardens into ugly generally untended paddocks.
Following a mass exodus of private workers (we know five families including us who fled the city in 2009-2011 thanks to crippling Rudd inspired government expansion housing prices) the place has been almost totally left to the devices of public servants.
And by god it shows – returning “home” as we do every few months is to be met with yet another teeth gringing irritation or shock at the rapid descent of the place at the ends of the unreconstructed green left / communist coalition in charge of the place.
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 8:16 pm
Canberra’s a bubble, this doesn’t mean that there is a lack of awareness of the plight of others, in fact many of the problems Canberra generates is the result of misguided concern. Canberra’s mistake is to champion paternalism rather than liberation.
dd
28 Aug 12 at 8:18 pm
Fisky,unfortunately they have( lefty Nutters) have only themselves to blame
Tal
28 Aug 12 at 8:27 pm
I grew up in Canberra.
My ex wife, her sister, my brother, sister in-law and her siblings are all second generation Canberran’s and all public servants.
Most my age got their first APS jobs via nepotism straight out of “college” (year 12) and then have easily climbed to middle management – having a uni degree is a quaint novelty in most of the “business” area’s of the welfare bureaucracy if you know someone.
Being a woman helps with women making up 57% of the APS but in many Canberra based departments making up 80% or more of the employees.
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 8:40 pm
There’s a great APS website here that lets you query APS demographic figures.
https://www.apsedii.gov.au/apsedii/CustomQueryx33.shtml
Some slighly more egregious examples of gender inequality in the APS:
Attorny Generals Dept:
Men: 537
Wmn: 917
Commonwealth DPP:
Men: 152
Wmn: 310
Federal Magistrates Court:
Men: 12
Wmn: 110
Medicare:
Men: 1127
Wmn: 4447
And on and on…
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 8:53 pm
Come on Canberrans! This is your chance to shine. You know it makes sense.
Megan
28 Aug 12 at 9:09 pm
twostix, sample selection bias. check the population stats:
1930: Population 9,000
1945: Population 13,000
1957: Population 39,000
1960: Population 50,000
1966: Population 96,000
1971: Population 146,000
1976: Population 203,100
1983: Population 235,000
1988: Population 270,000
2000: Population 311,000
On average, the population of Canberra increased by more than 50% every five years between 1955 and 1975. To accommodate the influx of residents, new town centres were created: Woden opened in 1964, followed by Belconnen in 1966, Weston Creek in 1969 and Tuggeranong in 1973
Between 1996 and 2001, 61.9% of the population either moved to or from Canberra, which is the second highest mobility rate of any Australian capital city.
Jim Rose
28 Aug 12 at 9:14 pm
I’d best not comment on this post, having unleashed enough obscenities for one day…
Rabz
28 Aug 12 at 9:21 pm
Our evil oil / coal CEO used intone us to work into every address we made some statistics on the otherwise unemployable useless public servants, and to express the numbers fully, not abbreviate them.
Back then about 30% of the Australian workforce guzzled and snorted at the public trough – more than 3,000,000 of ‘em – and I guess that proportion has worsened.
That means every man working to make a profit carries half an unproductive sloth on his back. And every week the sloth shuffles along the line to the pay office to draw his wage, whether he has worked well or not at all during the past 5 days.
One of their very best who recently floated to the top of the bowl was Ken Henry, a strange little fellow, who had the hide to instruct us to live our life according to his particular prejudices.
Mick Gold Coast QLD
28 Aug 12 at 9:52 pm
Jim Rose – the figures Twostix quotes are not samples. They are complete departmental population figures and as such cannot suffer from sampling bias.
If Twostix said that these are a sample of the entire Canberra population and they represent gender proportions, then he would be incorrect.
But he didn’t say that did he?
GrantB
28 Aug 12 at 9:53 pm
I wasn’t disagreeing about the mobility.
I was supporting this:
Soft nepotism is rampant in the APS, canberra born with a family member at an APS 6+ level and you’ll have an entry level job very quickly out of highschool.
Don’t even talk about the ridiculous and cruel farce of advertising and then interviewing applicants for jobs when they already have the person they want in or lined up for the position.
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 9:58 pm
I lived there* in 1978, in Duffy, and did design work to subdivide the paddocks from which Kaleen, Kambah and Waniassa sprung. The last two were then well beyond the developed urban area.
* I attribute my survival to friends found at Royals Rugby Club. I wouldn’t feed any of the other drones I experienced in the joint.
Mick Gold Coast QLD
28 Aug 12 at 10:05 pm
Why would you be paying any of my paycheck? I’m not a public servant – the pay is much better in the private sector! IIRC the percentage of workers in the ACT who are federal public servants dropped below 50% during the Howard years. Though I’d guess that a lot of that was due to outsourcing and its probably open to debate whether an outsourced job is essentially a public service job anyway….
Jim – I think one of the reasons people get a skewed view of locals vs imports in Canberra is that the locals tend to stick to their own closed social groups. So someone who didn’t grow up in Canberra is not very likely to socialise with someone who did.
twostix – part of the gender bias would be that the conditions for women are much better in the public service than in the private sector – maternity leave conditions, job flexibility, access to part time work etc. So even though they’d take a hit in salary terms there’s other benefits.
Chris
28 Aug 12 at 10:10 pm
lots of people come and go from canberra. this high mobility makes it less unrepresentive. 25% of canberrians are overseas born
Jim Rose
28 Aug 12 at 10:15 pm
‘Between 1996 and 2001, 61.9% of the population either moved to or from Canberra, which is the second highest mobility rate of any Australian capital city’
So Canberra’s population turned over by around 185,000 in 5 years. To put it another way, around 185,000 Canberrans living here in 2001 weren’t here in 1996. I find this a little hard to believe and I’d be intersted in sources and/or clarrification.
More broadly, two stix is right. There is some mobility – accounted for at least partially by the turnover of ADF personnel posted in and out – but there is also a solid corps of permanent residents who are the children and grandchildren of the people who moved here in the two big population leaps – the Menzies Govt decision in 1956 to move the central offices of all core agencies to Canberra and the Whitlam Government’s expansion of the public sector 1973-5. These people now supply the bulk of the recruits to the APS, although there are high fliers in some departments whose family lines can be traced back to the first agencies set up in Canberra in the 20s and 30s: PM&C, AGs and the Parliamentary Departments.
And Mick GC, the Royals has gone, it’s now part of the Raiders empire and a shadow of its former self.
Des Deskperson
28 Aug 12 at 10:24 pm
Don’t need to build a bunch of houses, just expand the ‘tent embassy’. Green living and all bro…
Chris M
28 Aug 12 at 10:25 pm
The Canberra Catallaxy Collective humbly requests a specific pardon from the sins of the city we reside in. We spread the word of liberty and economic freedom deep behind enemy lines in the land of the central planner, a land of dangerous forces and obscene wealth. We aim to rescue one lost economic soul at a time. And I work in the private sector in what is probably the largest Canberra based exporting company. We are an enlightened few in a land of many who live in the oppressive shadow of the dead of the State. Please forgive me!
John Comnenus
28 Aug 12 at 10:30 pm
“the pay is much better in the private sector!” Maybe it is if you are a skilled specialist. But where in the private sector, in Canberra or elsewhere, can a year 12 school leaver recruited as an APS 4 (the entry level for many agencies) earn $50,000 pa for undertaking routine clerical duties??
Des Deskperson
28 Aug 12 at 10:33 pm
Quite so.
Also, as the bulk of them don’t believe in private schools or private health insurance for us hoi polloi, legislate that all schools and hospitals in Canberra be open to all, regardless of ability to pay. Nothing like spending 36 hours in a hospital corridor because all the beds are taken by self-harming “refugees” and having your 12-year-old daughters assigned to school project teams with 30-year-old Muslim men pretending they’re but wee children, to bring some perspective into things.
You know it makes sense.
sdog
28 Aug 12 at 10:39 pm
Canberra should be a centrally planned economy, with subsidies and compensation for those who leave.
Hilarity would ensue.
.
28 Aug 12 at 10:42 pm
Don’t lie there’s no “hit” in the salary in the APS, it’s not 1960 anymore.
Most career non executive APS employees I know aren’t uni graduates and are clearing 60-90k a year + ridiculous benefits. A couple want to leave the APS but can’t as they’d have to take massive pay cuts because nobody gives a shit about their public service “skills”.
Working in most of the APS is a soul killer though, I give it that – especially the welfare bureaucracies – absolutely maddening regarding internal politics.
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 11:16 pm
Des – I don’t disagree with you there. The APS suffers from too high salaries at the low level and too low salaries at the highly skilled but non managerial end. Relative to the private sector they don’t value technical non managerial skills nearly as much.
I don’t know if the 185,000 number is true, but a period covering 1996 is a bit special . Remember in 1996 Howard sacked 25,000 public servants. A lot of them would have moved back to their home state after that happened (you can see it in the house price statistics), taking maybe 2-3 people (family) with them.
Don’t confuse the political policy of the ALP with what public servants believe. I would be willing to bet that the private health insurance uptake in Canberra is much higher than the rest of the country. And the private school rate is definitely higher (>50% in high school), even though the public schools student results are very good compared to the rest of the country (its mostly probably more demographics than anything else).
Chris
28 Aug 12 at 11:31 pm
Yes, they believe in it for themselves, our betters, the (in their own minds) elite. Just not for us filthy commoners.
That’s why I qualified my statement.
sdog
28 Aug 12 at 11:36 pm
Remember: In Chicago, our Community Organizer in Chief sent his two daughters to private schools at over $25,000 a year each for primary school level.
Once he got to DC, he killed a voucher proposal which would have allowed other black children to escape exactly the kind of horror schools he paid $50k/year to allow his children to escape.
“Some animals are more equal than others”.
sdog
28 Aug 12 at 11:39 pm
Also, re healthcare? Note that Obamacare is good enough for the hoi polloi, but the first people to be granted exemptions were politicians and unionists.
“Some animals…”
sdog
28 Aug 12 at 11:40 pm
Every public servant in DC and Canberra should be forced to use only basic-level government public schools and basic-level government public healthcare.
They need to live what it is they want to impose on the hoi polloi.
sdog
28 Aug 12 at 11:43 pm
Canberra has many excellent private schools.
Boys / Girls Grammar
Eddies, Marist, Trinity
They’re everywhere and that fact regularly causes the commie government and its travelers there to have an absolute fit.
Which is very amusing.
twostix
28 Aug 12 at 11:52 pm
sdog – again I think you’re confusing individual public servant views with political party policy. The vast majority of public servants in Canberra have little to no influence on what the government actually does. The people who are really in control just visit for a few weeks of the year.
The hospital care in Canberra (public or private) isn’t actually that wonderful. For all its wealth it’s still the size of a regional town. The general rule is if you get really sick, you go to Sydney to a big hospital – similar to what people living in regional areas would do.
Des – re: the reference to the turnover in population of Canberra. See here:
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/812343b3e6694d5dca256d3c0001f4c9?OpenDocument
1996-2001 – approx 99000 people left and 94000 arrived over that time period. I wonder if that was due to Howard sacking a bunch of public servants when he first came to government and then increasing the size of the public service again over the next few years as he realised he actually needed them. I wonder if Abbott will do the same? If so investing in ACT housing after the sacking induced property crash should yield a good return
Chris
29 Aug 12 at 12:03 am
Although it’s a troll, I think there’s a kernel of truth in Samuel’s idea. Unfortunately he is so long out of the public service (and I assume he was a pube because boy does he have a pilonidal sinus over DFAT) that he has forgotten that the real policy decisions on immigration are not driven by public servants. Rather, the direction is set by the Cabinet and/or minister and the pubes write policy to fit with the prevailing view from Mount Minister. Public servants in most of these agencies are like iron filings. When the polarity changes, they flip over and never remember that they were previously pointing in a different direction. They are complicit, I agree, but it’s aiding and abetting, not the actual conspiring.
And so, Samuel’s idea would have been stellar if he had instead said that MPs, and the journos and activists (opinion-makers) who yank them around, should be forced to live in suburbs feeling the impact of experimental immigration. Or, as Samuel says, (and this is more exquisitely cruel) they should be forced to roll over and allow the bulk of illegal immigrants to assume residency in the MPs, and journalists and the dilettante lobbyists’ own leafy suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne.
We would see a far tighter, more reality-based standard of policy and opinion if Sudanese rapists and Somalian gangs lived next door to Julia Gillard, David Marr and Sinclair Davidson.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 1:52 am
Most of them do. Most of them send their kids to public schools and don’t have private cover. It’s only the higher ups who go private, generally.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 1:54 am
H’mm. I think it’s likely he sacked more than strictly optimal, to bring the budget under control and also to turn over staff. Thereafter he likely hired more than optimal because this is Australia and we never saw anything we didn’t think needed an entire Department. Or two. Preferably working at cross-purposes.
wreckage
29 Aug 12 at 2:00 am
Well really, it’s their job.
wreckage
29 Aug 12 at 2:01 am
The decision makers. Target THE DECISION MAKERS.
The organ grinders, not the monkeys.
HTH.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 2:55 am
The second problem us the mandarins who get parachuted in because they are clubbable yes men, with no program delivery experience and embouchures large enough to accomodate the largest arses.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 3:01 am
For some reason I was of the impression that the majority of Canberra types supported Labor and the Greens. Forgive me if somehow got the wrong idea.
sdog
29 Aug 12 at 4:51 am
Maybe Abu, but I believe that the good people of Canberra deserve what is suggested by Samuel.
The fact that the 2PP in the ACT is Greens v Labor tells us the people there should be given a royal helping of the rich tapestry of life that comes from the “clients” the greens & labor are importing.
The people of that parasite territory really do escape from the consequences of their votes and choose to sneer at those dealing with the consequences.
Token
29 Aug 12 at 8:35 am
Why are my comments going into moderation?
Token
29 Aug 12 at 8:36 am
test
Gab
29 Aug 12 at 9:39 am
Most of them do. Most of them send their kids to public schools and don’t have private cover
Which is very convenient for Canberra, because artificially it has the best public schools, education and other public amenities in the country. Artificial because the productive output of the public servants wouldn’t cover the cost of these public goods. It’s the best welfare-land in the country, and I say that as someone who has benefited from it for many years in the past. Nothing like a high standard of living at other people’s expense!
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 10:13 am
Why am I on moderation?
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 10:14 am
This is serious. A few years ago a colleague and I went to Canberra for a quiet chat with a bureaucrat about an imminent but low key issue. No less than 17 people turned up, from six different departments! The joint is absolutely full of people like Kevin Rudd – talking in cliches, carrying glossy brochures, rushing between pointless meetings, with lots and lots of “consultations with stakeholders” but with no understanding of the real issues and never making any decisions.
My experience has led me to the conclusion that while the efficiencies of centralising government functions in Canberra are theoretically attractive, we would be much better off with most activity being in the States, because the bureaucrats there have to live in the real world.
MACK1
29 Aug 12 at 10:19 am
I often tell local Canberrans that they are well paid from the taxes of those who live a humbler life in less liveable places. That often gets them riled up. I also tell them they should be forced to pay for their children’s schooling and for private health insurance so they can stop bludging on the taxes paid by those on more humbler wages who live in less liveable places.
Its funny how they try and change the subject or demand even more public funding when you invert their lefty argument and tell them they bludging on the less well off.
__________________________________________________
The first time I brought my young son to Canberra from Sydney to watch a Super Rugby game with his Godfather I showed him where his mum and I used to live in Canberra. As we were driving past Dickson shops my son asked me: ‘Daddy why is everyone here white?’ I like to relay that comment back to all the diversity loving fuckwits down here who live in the least multi cultural city in the country.
__________________________________________________
Canberrans are some of the most smug and least reflective or self aware people I have ever met in Australia.
John Comnenus
29 Aug 12 at 10:25 am
TPP is around 60-40 (ALP/LIB) so the house of rep seats are safe ALP, but far from the safest in the country (not even in the top 20 safest ALP seats). And although its been rather close in recent elections they’ve elected one ALP senator and one Lib senator for quite a while now.
I think its the wrong approach to turn over staff though. They need to fix how they choose which staff leave first. Its all generally all voluntary redundancy so the people who leave are those who are retiring soon anyway (so its expensive – lots of years plus going to leave soon anyway!) and those who are good and are confident of getting a job elsewhere. So if you clean out the public service using that method a few times you just end up with the people who can’t get a job elsewhere.
Individual public servants are no more bludging off the less well off than a business person is bludging providing goods or services to the government or the people they represent. You might disagree about what they do and the need for it to be done, but they generally actually do work. And if you don’t like what they do you have the ability to fire them via your elected representatives.
Chris
29 Aug 12 at 10:55 am
What the hell are you talking about?
Canberra voted 63 / 37 for Rudd and 61 to 39 for Gillard.
By state it’s by far the most reliable ALP stronghold in Australia.
Locally there are 3 hard left ALP members, 3 green members and 3 wet liberals.
6 commies to 3 liberals who would sit in the right of the labor party anywhere else in Australia.
And you’re trying to play it as some moderate place. Get outta here with your lies.
twostix
29 Aug 12 at 11:16 am
You might disagree about what they do and the need for it to be done, but they generally actually do work.
They don’t have the same burdens, responsibilities or carry the same level of employment risk as workers in the real world. This used to be offset by lower wages, but that is no longer the case.
And if you don’t like what they do you have the ability to fire them via your elected representatives.
One vote in 11 million every four years. That is substantially less power than an organisation I can cease buying goods and services from, thereby terminating my relationship, at any moment I choose.
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 11:21 am
As a Canberra Public Servant I heartily agree! There is plenty of space, and the climate isn’t that bad…
tbh – there are suburbs that ‘bring down’ our averages, but they are outnumbered by the massive amount of professional people who move to Canberra to help try and provide a high level of public service (I know we may fail at this quite regularly, but the Senior Exec are getting old now, and the few of them that know how to use a computer are probably on the CPSU website or looking at p0rn right now)
We need a larger population and some more diverse suburbs. The amount of in-filling of the inner suburbs could definitely go up. Canberra would need a police force though – the AFP ‘look after’ Canberra – pretty much supplying us with speed camera checks and a few motorbike police – but hardly a beat cop to be seen…
But we are a timid bunch in Canberra, so the larger federal police people can rest assured they won’t have to run after anyone in anger…
Canberra will need some extra infrastructure too – there is an ineffectual bus system, and no light rail… bikes are popular, but with one million people it might get a little hectic, but at least we could enjoy ourselves trying to dodge bikes and the numerous art installations…
Bring it on!!!
Oh – Canberra has quite a similar climate to Afghanistan too!
Peter
29 Aug 12 at 11:25 am
Chris, what have you personally done to assist the “clients” of the asylym process?
Have you opened your home? Do you donate your time?
Token
29 Aug 12 at 11:25 am
Maybe build a detention/processing centre in the ACT?
Boris
29 Aug 12 at 11:37 am
Moderate is never a word I’d use to describe Canberra. When discussing libertarian/conservative ideas and ideals with my fellow Canberra Catallaxy Collective members, I automatically find myself looking over my shoulder. One of my fellow CCC members (I’ll let him confirm who he is if he so chooses) recounted to us at one of our recent gatherings that he might have made a career limiting move – having his boss observe Andrew Bolt’s blog on his monitor…
I have on occasions (don’t ask!) strayed into enemy territory and had drinks with a good friend of mine, who is somewhat ironically a staunch conservative, at the Canberra Labor Club (yes, the clubs industry is well entrenched here and yes there are a number of clubs here owned and operated by the ALP – pokies reform anyone???). We normally go there and bitch about the ALP and greens the whole time. A weird little ritual I grant you.
Anyway, one time, the local ALP conference was on and there was a function on at the Labor club, attended by luminaries such as Jon Stanhope (he had to wax the sides of his head to get it in the door), Katy Gallagher and ‘Professor’ Andrew Leigh. My conservative friend used to work with a long time ALP member and he came over to our table to say hello. While the loyal party man was there, the local branch chief swaggered in and came over as well. He didn’t even acknowledge us directly, but rather asked his fellow ALP colleague was: “Are they members”? Upon being told no, he was quite shocked and walked off with an air of mild disgust…There is an expectation amongst residents here that you are automatically an ALP person, or at worst a lefty Green…
As an aside, Katy Gallagher didn’t have her membership card on her and the door nazi didn’t recognise her…it was quite hilarious watching the Canberra mayor having to explain who she was and why she was there…
Skuter
29 Aug 12 at 11:57 am
Twostix – have a look at the ALP safe seats here:
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/pendulum.htm
I’d agree the local ACT politics are definitely way more to the left than the states. But they little to no influence beyond their borders and they live with the decisions they make.
There’s certainly a huge wage gap when it comes to IT related jobs. Don’t know much about the other areas. Yes there is the trade off with job security, although as Howard demonstrated that’s not as strong as it used to be. Newman, likewise.
Boris – I think you’d find that the there would be quite a bit of support for a asylum seeker processing centre in the ACT.
And your ordinary shareholder in a company has about the same or even less power in how a company is run. You have a say in the how the government is run, so does everybody else. I own a few shares in Coles – doesn’t mean I get to unilaterally decide to sack the worker at the local store because I think he’s lazy or rude.
Token – I’m more than happy for my tax dollars to be spent helping refugees.
Chris
29 Aug 12 at 12:01 pm
…yes, the issue is so important to you that getting government to spend taxes from everyone provides a band-aid to your conscience on this matter.
BTW, should people who actually spend their time and money (who are not paid) get a discount, or are your conscienct happy to free ride on them?
Token
29 Aug 12 at 12:06 pm
Honestly, they’re such elitists! The working man only there to fund their lazy asses.
Gab
29 Aug 12 at 12:10 pm
Our society “free rides” on billions of dollars of value a year provided by volunteers. Should all volunteers getting a discount and if they do are they still volunteers or just another public servant which you loathe?
Chris
29 Aug 12 at 12:15 pm
Absolutely Gab. Elitism is rife here. I live just over the border in Queanbeyan and you should hear the flak I cop from a number of Canberrans for living in ‘struggletown’ with the ‘ferals’.
Also, the amount of people who I know on low 6-figure salaries who refuse to pay for their own health insurance or schooling for their children is staggering. They are opposed to it on principle. In fact with the schooling thing, I think a few of them actually feel they are doing some sort of community service by ‘allowing’ the children of the great unwashed to associate with their little angels at public schools.
Skuter
29 Aug 12 at 12:26 pm
<i. You have a say in the how the government is run, so does everybody else. I own a few shares in Coles – doesn’t mean I get to unilaterally decide to sack the worker at the local store because I think he’s lazy or rude.
Precisely why the executive government should be kept as lean as possible and centred on essential matters that have overwhelming support on both sides of the fence. In areas where you are voting to force your views on others, or voting as a bloc like public servants to benefit your own self-interest over others, democracy is actually failing. Bloated government, highly paid public servants, or unnecessary government that is replacing options that have a greater voluntary component is actually counter-intuitive to democracy.
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 12:30 pm
I had comments go into moderation on ACT schools and health. Can someone get them out.
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 12:35 pm
It must be comforting to know the same people you are judging as rednecks are often the same people who are volunteering and doing the work you choose not to do to salve your conscience.
Nice Strawman.
Where have I ever said I loathe public servants? People like Abu and the military do critical work for all Australians. No-one here loathes them.
Token
29 Aug 12 at 12:36 pm
The American culture with regards to public service (as in being a public servant) is a better approach to the Anglophile one. Middle managers more often come from industry. They don’t see bureaucracy as a career, or if you do it as a career it’s not seen as particularly lucrative or prestigious (although with slightly more secure if modest retirement benefits). Rather, it’s seen more often as good, honest work serving others. More of their bureaucrats such as senior public servants are subject to the public vote.
It’s not universal in American culture but it’s more prevalent.
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 12:48 pm
They’ll be set for the new mega-mosque they’re attempting to push through in Gungahlin as we speak then. Excellent timing.
Of course, the locals aren’t impressed, with the proposed location, but no matter. Gotta be inclusive and all that.
nilk
29 Aug 12 at 1:00 pm
There literally is no possible job that would cause me to move to Canberra. Unless it was PM, and I had a captive senate to implement my ideas.
brc
29 Aug 12 at 1:02 pm
Skute,
Thank goodness for the CCC™. Helps keep me sane.
Interestingly, my other source of social interaction down here, my soccer team, is also largely composed of conservatives.
As you know, a member of the team has now also joined the CCC™.
We also had a conversation one Friday evening with Senator Humphries at King O’Malley’s and he struck us all as a decent, down to earth bloke.
I’ve been surprised at the number of conservatives there are down here in Zombie Parrotville.
Rabz
29 Aug 12 at 1:07 pm
Is there a Melbournistan Catallaxy Collective yet?
nilk
29 Aug 12 at 1:13 pm
You’re the one labelling people as rednecks, not me.
And just because I don’t currently do volunteer work in an area you nominate, doesn’t mean I haven’t done volunteer work in other areas.
I agree – having a decent amount of hiring from outside is a good idea for all organisations. Some level of bureaucracy is inevitable in any large organisation and some private organisations also suffer from not bringing enough people in at intermediate levels, not just at entry level or exec level.
At least in Australia I think they’re going to have to be willing to pay more to attract people from private industry though.
Chris
29 Aug 12 at 1:19 pm
Humphries is a nice guy, no doubt – I’ve had some limited interactions with him, but at least when he is on TV, he comes across as a typical naive, wet Canberra liberal. I suppose you have to be to have any chance of success. I’d love to see you get elected here, honestly. You’d certainly put a rocket up the rigidfistupbottoms here! I also just remembered one of our esteemed CCC colleagues story about online dating in Canberra – there are two types of political opinions that appear on dating sites. Progressive or ‘unspecified/uninterested’. It’s just what you’ve got to do to get on in this place. I have met quite a few conservatives/libertarians here too, but we all tend to keep our heads down until we are certain about someone…It was different for the CCC as we all self-identified before we knew each other anyway…
Skuter
29 Aug 12 at 1:23 pm
he comes across as a typical naive, wet Canberra liberal. I suppose you have to be to have any chance of success.
He serves a very important purpose in CommieLand for the Libs. A normal conservative couldn’t pull it off, but he does it. That’s why I don’t complain when he opposes public sector cuts. But him only you other Lib wet f*cks, don’t get any ideas. Especially you Campbell Newman!
John Mc
29 Aug 12 at 1:48 pm
I’m pretty sure the World Criminal Court and UN would describe this as a cruel and unusual punishment, if not torture, for the immigrants forced to live in Canberra
Alan Grey
29 Aug 12 at 1:49 pm
Is there a Melbournistan Catallaxy Collective yet?
Nilk, yes there is. It normally meets for long lunches every so often. If you’re interested let Sinc know.
dover_beach
29 Aug 12 at 1:56 pm
Three men were walkign along the beach one day, a Tasmanian, a Canberran and a bloke from Queanbeyan. The Tasmanian, dragging his feet, kicks over a lump of metal in the sand. Curious, the three uncover the object and discover it to be a brazz lamp. Out of curiosity, the Tasmanian rubs it and POOF! out pops a geneie.
“Three wishes I must grant” says the genie, “and as there are three of you I shall grant you one wish each.”
The Tasmanian speaks up. “I wish for a big new house and a brand new car in Hobart.”
POOF! “It is done.”
The Canberran speaks up. “I’m sick of the rest of Australia. They’re all uncouth, feral barbarians and I want to keep them out of our beautiful Canberra forever. I wish for a 100 metre tall, 60 metre thick concrete wall around the entire border of the ACT, with search lights and razor wire to keep people from trying to sneak in.”
POOF! “It is done.”
Finally, the bloke from Queanbeyan speaks up. “That wall, its just like he asked for, big and tall and strong enough to keep anything out, right?”
The genie replies affirmatively.
“Fill the ACT with water.”
Supplice
29 Aug 12 at 2:17 pm
There is a McKinlay Cat Collective.
Total membership of one. The cats, Fatso and Buddy, are Associate members only, as they refuse to drink beer.
Meetings are every night if you feel like it.
There are Door Prizes of washing up, lighting the fire, and Chips.
Winston Smith
29 Aug 12 at 2:39 pm
Well, John, it’s clear you haven’t spent much time in my home town of Sydney.
Though, these days, for the past two decades, I have lived overseas in various non-holiday destinations, and I have come to the view that most Australians are amongst the least reflective and self aware people of the western world. They think they are world travellers but drinking trips to the UK and Europe don’t count as experience.
If you don’t target the decision makers, you won’t change policy, and you won’t shake Canberra out of it’s leftist coziness.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 2:40 pm
The states of the commonwealth have enough resources let’s just cut the buggers off. Electricity comes from NSW let them live on their solar panels. They produce no food so NSW and all other states can introduce ridiculous quaranteen restrictions. Let’s cut them off.
kelly liddle
29 Aug 12 at 3:06 pm
Abu, how do you think we compare with the US or Europeans on this score?
dover_beach
29 Aug 12 at 3:17 pm
Better than the yanks, worse than the eurotrash. Look at Holland’s recent changes.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 3:35 pm
Better than the yanks, worse than the eurotrash
Abu
So what are you saying? We should be like the Eurotrash as you refer to them and insist the Feds run debt up quicker? Insist they get smashed every weekend. Insist they are capable of a normal job. What sort of Utopia are you suggesting sounds like a scarey one to me.
kelly liddle
29 Aug 12 at 4:11 pm
For years I’ve been saying that Longreach should be the capital of Queensland for similar reasons…..
1735099
29 Aug 12 at 4:36 pm
Thanks, Dover
While I generally self-identify as a bogan, sometimes it’s nice to discuss more challenging subjects.
And it’s nice to not have to bite my tongue every 3 minutes.
nilk
29 Aug 12 at 7:40 pm
Many years ago there was a song about Canberra. I can only remember fragments and may be making at least some of this up, but here goes.
Slow learners in Turner,
Best frisk ‘em in Dickson,
It’s Lyneham, to wine and dine ‘em.
Blues in Hughes, Downer’s a downer!
And in Reid, public servant go to seed.
It’s so obvious that you’ll be agreeing,
It surely never fails.
The only place to live in,
Is Queanbeyan New South Wales.
blogstrop
29 Aug 12 at 8:29 pm
Candy: “…up here Brisbane its the Lebanese boys who seem to cause trouble, they deal the pills at the clubs and stuff and carry knives (hope I’m not offending anyone with saying that) don’t think other groups of asylum seekers would increase crime much”.
No,no. Other asylum seekers groups could not possibly cause any problems. Bad grammar, worse jungle fever.
candy
28 Aug 12 at 5:29 pm
Big Jim
29 Aug 12 at 9:14 pm
All I’m saying is they are better travelled and better read. They generally have a better understanding of world politics, philosophy and history than educated Australians. Aussies are parochial by comparison.
Abu Chowdah
29 Aug 12 at 10:31 pm
Well trolled, Abu.
.
29 Aug 12 at 10:54 pm
Avery dear departed friend of mine well schooled in Constitutional law, told me a few days before a federal election and whilst living in Canberra, that my vote (along with all Canberrans) didnt count, because of the Hare-Clark system. In other words, only get out of bed to vote to save yourself from paying the fine. Oh the shock of being so unimportant (sarc).
delfino
29 Aug 12 at 11:53 pm
The Australian War Memorial wouldw make a very good mosque. It only needs two minarets at the front gate.
Old bloke
31 Aug 12 at 1:21 pm