Toke, reading between the all the squiggly lines of this story, it seems to me that Marr had an irrational hatred of Abbott 35 years ago and has carried that fury ever since for reasons he refuses to disclose. It has everything to do with Marr’s homosexuality, IMO. (Marr said on ABC radio this week: “He was unspeakably homophobic at the time.”) He now utilises every appearance on TV to attempt to belittle Abbott. Why? We’ll probably never know because Marr hasn’t been telling the truth and won’t start now; he’s dug too big a hole for himself spinning these stories. It’s a savage indictment for a “journalist” to have taken such an extreme position in a political contest, to have written about Abbott on the pretence of being an independent observer and to have clearly lied about something from his past to smear Abbott, according to Greg Sheridan’s account. For me, this story is intertwined with the decline of Fairfax. Everything written under this company’s name, including everything written by Marr, has to be second-guessed. That is absolutely fatal in the news business — and so it will prove.
@token the Sheridan article is definitely worth a read. The poisonous atmosphere of far-left student politics is a terrible place.
A young relative of mine has gotten involved in student politics on the conservative side. From their reports, nothing much has changed – there was still plenty of abuse and threatening behaviour.
Sheridans final line ‘he was a good bloke then, and he’s a good bloke now’ – this is the overwhelming thought that will cut through with people.
The poisonous atmosphere of far-left student politics is a terrible place.
It seems it has always been so and like the race riot in Canberra, the Left & the media do not intend to change.
I was as student in Vic before/after Kennett got elected and saw the violence of the Left to those who opposed them close up. I was friends with many of the players in student politics of the day (some of whom now are appearing at state/federal leve).
It was a defining contrast to me to see the Jewish students allow a respresentative of the PLO to come onto campus to do a presentation and to argue with him over idea.
By contrast, when Kennett would come on campus once a year and people I knew would attack his car, try to crush him and his security detail as they walked through the campus and bang on the doors of the room he would present.
When I would front those who were friends on the Left about their attitudes / actions and the voilence, illogical emotional rationalisations mixed with anger and envy would result.
Toke, reading between the all the squiggly lines of this story, it seems to me that Marr had an irrational hatred of Abbott 35 years ago and has carried that fury ever since for reasons he refuses to disclose.
It is a clear statement of how poor a journalist that, either Marr didn’t know that Sheridan was once close to Abbott, or would stand up for his friend once the claims wers made.
You can bet the Barrie Cassidy will not be imposing a Glenn Milne style ban on the luvvie left icon for such a shoddy undergraduate hatchet job.
[After all the claim Cassidy made to substantiate the ban in a recent article was factually untrue].
The Coalition looks as though they won’t support the ban on Super-trawlers. Katter looks as though he’ll ban the Abel Tasman. Wilkie is a definite also. Oakeshott looks as though he won’t support the ban on scientific grounds but unless Windsor joins him, it looks as though the Greens/GetUp have won. You can take it as given that Shagger Thomson will vote with the Government.
…but unless Windsor joins him, it looks as though the Greens/GetUp have won.
So like the Cattle Exporters, a company that took out a lease on a commercial vessel sees an arbitary change to laws which will cause the venture to become insolvent based upon an unscientific political campaign
In 5 years Australia has became an economic backwater with real sovereign risk concerns.
This is the way the businesses this “compassionate” Alliance has studious built up treats its customers:
The paper said people-smugglers detained under the Internal Security Act at Kamunting were counting the days to their release as they were all set to resume business.
The detainees also told of the violent and sometimes brutal tactics used to maintain control and protect their turf and reputation.
Sheridan reveals he knew Abbott in his student and calls out the bullsh&t.
Sheridan reveals he can not be taken seriously on any political matters to do with Abbott because he was a fellow Young Liberal. He’s got about as much credibility as Pickering.
Yeah mOron, he’s still light years ahead of your idol, Marr. Pull your head out of your arse fatty and check in with Stevie. You can chat on the phone while he does his ironing
I’m accusing Sheridan of being partisan, Tom. I’m sure all those things he described actually happened. I was tangentially involved in student politics at my time at uni, and heard stories then that were as bad as the ones Sheridan recounts. Maoists were indeed crazy. But bad things were also caused by the right, too.
Given that Nauru has now mandated that no detainees are transferred there “by force” you have to wonder whether any “asylum seekers” will end up there at all. The Rudd/Gillard regime lacked the bottle to frogmarch detainees off the Oceanic Viking and I doubt that they’ve hardened up any now that the Lying Slapper is in charge. Plus I note that she’s dragging the feet on implementing the other components of Angus Houston’s package. Not that it would work under this mob. Until we get a return to TPVs, curbs on welfare and no family reunions, the boats will still arrive.
Greg Sheridan is a good mate to write that article, he could have not bothered as the whole story is not true and nothing to do with policies or politics anyway. He’s possibly put himself offside with various other people now.
So m0nty, by your own reasoning Marr should never have any comment on anything political taken seriously as he is an avowed leftist. By the same logic, nothing that he says about Abbott can be taken seriously because Marr has declared that young Tone was homophobic, therefore anathema to everything that Marr stands for.
Marr is the most partisan of partisan hacks, yet strangely you and your ilk never call him out for it.
I think that Sheridan needs to be applauded for standing up on principle to a disgracefully partisan and orchestrated smear of the opposition leader.
The poisonous atmosphere of far-left student politics is a terrible place.
Ah yes, good ol’ student politics – I was involved in the laybore right faction and our opponents were of course, the hard left trots, who inlcuded such luminaries as eric roozendaal and ‘mackenzie’ wark.
Needless to say, many of the trots ended up in the laybore right once they’d grown up a bit.
Another highlight of my student days was the collapse of AUS, whose president at the time was none other juliar ‘young and naive’ dullard…
Abbott was my best friend at that time. We talked over everything. The meaning of life, the purpose of politics, who’d win the rugby league grand final, what girls we planned to ask out, petty squabbles we might have had with our parents. I remember the night in question quite well. No such incident was ever discussed by Abbott or by anyone else in his circle. It is utterly inconceivable.
Sheridan most likely believes what he wrote, and good on him for defending a mate, but he’s way too close to Abbott for his word to be good enough as an alibi.
He’s also way too close to Abbott for him to be taken seriously in writing about Abbott’s political career.
Given the testimony of the Young Labor man referenced by Sheridan, the liar is obviously Ramjan/Marr. Marr has not provided one iota of corroborative evidence.
Is this the same M0nty who was bloviating over journalistic standards last week?
Is this the same M0nty who was peddling claims from a woman who had a track record of making personal attacks on the family of journalists?
Is this the same M0nty who defended institutionalised corruption and tried to argue that smearing in response to documentary evidence is ok?
You are a grubby person. Maybe we should follow your ethicial standards and dig up some more facts of your days at AusBone as it is hard to believe your approach to business will be different to politics.
So m0nty, by your own reasoning Marr should never have any comment on anything political taken seriously as he is an avowed leftist. By the same logic, nothing that he says about Abbott can be taken seriously because Marr has declared that young Tone was homophobic, therefore anathema to everything that Marr stands for.
I agree to a point, though it’s a matter of degree. I don’t see Marr as lilywhite by any means, and his public pronouncements always should be put in context of his beliefs because he is a columnist, not a hard news journo. He’s not the close personal friend of Gillard, though.
Sheridan has announced himself as a partisan with this piece, because his reasoning goes, “He’s my mate, and he didn’t say anything to me about it, thus I trust him.” That’s not the though process of a journalist. That’s a mate talking.
Given the testimony of the Young Labor man referenced by Sheridan, the liar is obviously Ramjan/Marr. Marr has not provided one iota of corroborative evidence.
It is clear by the way M0nty went personal on Sheridan he knows it to be true as well.
Given the testimony of the Young Labor man referenced by Sheridan, the liar is obviously Ramjan/Marr. Marr has not provided one iota of corroborative evidence.
That may very well be the case, and nothing can be proven either way. Marr should drop it. The point has been made, such as it is. I wouldn’t have gone there if I were him, and I don’t agree with his methods.
Why is all of this energy being spent on this allegation re Abbott anyway?
Even if there was proof it happened, I don’t see that many people would be affected by a story indicating that Tone could be a hot head at university. It was a long time ago, and people in university politics do stupid things all the time, I am sure.
In fact, if it was up to me, involvement in university student politics should keep you out of Parliament rather than be a stepping stone on the way in.
Those that believe that it probably did happen probably already hated him anyway.
Those that don’t believe it don’t trust Marr on anything anyway.
And the slab in the middle probably think, “maybe it happened, but who cares?”
Still think Tony Abbott should sue david Marr and put a stop to this nonsense. Mr Abbott is a good man and there’s nothing in his past to ever validate such smearing and base tactics.
Marr has not provided one iota of corroborative evidence.
Marr is totally unconvincing. The “unspeakably homophobic” remark shows where he’s coming from. Dishonest in his lifestyle, it’s a small step to lie about others.
—————————————————-
Sheridan is partisan – where ? He’s speaking up for a mate, how evil.
While you’re at it monty, please make a list of journalists who are in a relationship with a politician, political assistant/advisor, unionist, business lobbyist. What do you think the split between labor, greens and liberals would be?
Information is that Ramjan, the former student union leader and Abbott’s current accuser, was a member of a Communist-front faction. She retired as SRC President (succeeded by Abbott) in disgrace within the Left for strikebreaking on SRC staff.
Abbott, on the other hand, has always been fundamentally decent.
On the QLD budget, had a conversation with a former colleague who is caught up in the ‘sackings’.
Said colleague is currently enjoying 12 month maternity leave (3 months full time pay, balance half pay). Department is faced with 76 redundancies. Rather than in fear, favors and paybacks currently being traded to be in line for the redundancies. The redundancy for this particular young mother – who hasn’t worked since March – looks like being a $25k payout, with a chunk tax-free. Remember – this is being paid to leave a job that she hasn’t worked in 6 months anyway.
Note : not a front-line position, but merely a back-office position. Obviously not important, as no replacement currently filling in for the maternity leave.
The unions might be screaming about sackings, but the workers seem to jockeying to get a slice of the $800m redundancy pile.
Makes me sick. In no position have I ever worked was there a chance of a $25k payout for deciding to never return to a job I wasn’t doing anyway.
You don’t approve but you’re grateful “(t)he point has been made, such as it is”?
You’re putting words in my mouth, JamesK. I don’t agree with the point he’s making, either. Just because the rightwing horde descended upon Gillard’s past like a pack of rabid dogs doesn’t mean the hounds should also be released on Abbott’s past.
Sheridan most likely believes what he wrote, and good on him for defending a mate, but he’s way too close to Abbott for his word to be good enough as an alibi.
He’s not the close personal friend of Gillard, though.
m0nty, I don’t think that it matters. It seems that the cabal of left leaning Canberra stenographers toe a party line irrespective of the personalities at the top of the ALP.
As much as people (myself included) enjoy chucking a bit of muck your way, you generally at least try to back your views up with some sort of logic, as twisted as that might be.
In this instance however, you are showing a rank depth of hypocrisy that I thought only the Greens could muster.
If being partisan should exclude Sheridan from commenting about Tone, surely most of Fairfax & the ABC should also be excluded from opining on anything political.
Unlike you, I don’t have an issue with partisan opinion. What I do take issue with is when it is not balanced by an opposing voice.
A quick look at Fairfax & the ABC will show that virtually all opinion and reportage comes from the viewpoint of the left, there is no dissenting view offered.
I wish that you had the testicular fortitude to admit as much.
And the slab in the middle probably think, “maybe it happened, but who cares?”
The slab in the middle should see it as both part of Labor’s ongoing campaign to smear Abbott as misogynist and a desperate equivalency stretch to take the heat off Gillard regarding her activities at Slater and Gordon. A cynical and transparent shut up tactic.
Ah yes, good ol’ student politics – I was involved in the laybore right faction and our opponents were of course, the hard left trots, who inlcuded such luminaries as eric roozendaal and ‘mackenzie’ wark.
So was I. Eric Rozendall used to be trot? He was already high up in Labor Right (Centre Unity as it was called in uni) when I was around.
It seems from what Sheridan is describing that nothing much has changed at all. When I was briefly involved, the sane moderate types were the Labor Right and Libs who had more in common with each other and were more frequently in alliance with each other than the Labor Left+ Trots. The wet Libs were a bit off with the fairies though as I recall they supported no university fees at that time.
AUJS (Australian Union of Jewish Students) were understandably closer to us and the Libs because of the loony anti-zionists in the left alliance. We also usually had the votes of the Christian/EU (Evangelical Union) votes sown up.
100% right, Ivan. Why do you think Albo was nominated as the chief attack dog on the issue? Because shut up! People like Michael Smith are still diggging away, compiling a damning account of the Prime Minister’s working life that won’t go away, no matter how much her sleazy Catallaxy lapdogs suck and dissemble.
If being partisan should exclude Sheridan from commenting about Tone, surely most of Fairfax & the ABC should also be excluded from opining on anything political.
Frankly, most political opinion published in the MSM in Australia isn’t worth a pinch of shit. Journos seem to align themselves with their sources way too much.
It’s also a bit of a myth that Fairfax is leftwing theses days. Grattan has moved all the way over to the right. Carney, Coorey, Hartcher… all have been captured by ALP Right sources and/or Rudd, and have been attacking the left for years now.
I won’t cry for any of them when they take their redundancies.
The point of comparison with the never-happened-wall-attack and Gillards of-course-it-happened involvement in fraud is that – even if the wall punch happened, which it patently did not – it’s not illegal to punch walls. It is illegal, however, to set up union slush funds contrary to their stated purpose. A thing which, quite rightly, led to dismissal from a law firm.
If we want to take the ‘but it speaks to character’ line – then we learn that Tony (if it were true, as it patently is not), as a young student, was a bit of a hothead. We also learn that Gillard, as a law partner, thought very little of either the law, ethical behaviour, or even reporting criminal activities to authorities.
The Gillard events are all documented, proven true and show that she is deceptive, which we already knew from the carbon tax lie, the Rudd knifing, the Wilkie backflip.
The Abbott events are all fabrications, and show that the Labor party has major problems with telling the truth, which we already knew. We also know that Abbott must be of good character, as the only way they can find problems is by making them up. Which means the dirt files are cleaner than a hospital table.
Carney, Coorey, Hartcher… all have been captured by ALP Right sources and/or Rudd, and have been attacking the left for years now.
I am amazed at your blinkered view of the world m0nty. Even you must realise what an asinine statement that is. What you are actually trying to say is that the right wing of a leftist party is attacking the far left, yet in your myopic fashion you fail to see that to those of us in the centre or right of centre, they are all left wingers.
Just to make it clear for you, even the ALP Right faction is too far to the left for most of the players on this site.
Any party that stands for larger government and regulation is of the left, it is really only about degrees thereafter.
the sane moderate types were the Labor Right and Libs who had more in common with each other and were more frequently in alliance with each other than the Labor Left+ Trots
It’s also a bit of a myth that Fairfax is leftwing theses days. Grattan has moved all the way over to the right. Carney, Coorey, Hartcher… all have been captured by ALP Right sources and/or Rudd, and have been attacking the left for years now.
Now that’s comical, Mont. Grattan is a lone relatively sane voice among the ultra-left lunatics at Fairfax, although I’ve never known her bias to be hanging out so blatantly. Coorey and Harcher are the main Fairfax spokesman for the crazy Green agenda that is now being imposed on the country. It’s hilarious how rabid extremists now regard the feral Labor rabble — complete with Finkelstein, Bromberg and Andrew Leigh and the rest of the maddies — as “the right”. The new “Right” of the ALP would have been expelled from the party under Keating as an anti-democratic embarrassment.
Tony should sue Marr, only because Marr is obviously unbalanced about Tony.
Unrequited love’s a bore?
Marr is the weakest link – put some pressure on him TA, and watch the meltdown.
There’s an article in today’s SMH about studies into life expectancy of homosexuals. CL, is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?
Extracts reproduced below:
THE controversial claims by some Christian leaders that gay men die younger than heterosexual men appear to have originated from flawed US research that was funded by a Christian research group.
One of several studies by Paul Cameron and his son, Kirk, of the Family Research Institute in Colorado in the United States – which claims its ”overriding mission is to generate empirical research on issues that threaten the traditional family, particularly homosexuality, AIDS, sexual social policy and drug abuse” – concluded heterosexual men outlived gay men by 20 years.
The study has been criticised for its lack of academic rigour. It was partly based on lifespan estimates of men and women and gays and lesbians from obituaries in several US newspapers.
”The gist of the Camerons’ argument was that lesbians and gay men must die younger than their heterosexual peers because they appeared to be under-represented in studies of older people,” Dr Holt, from the University of NSW, said.
A Danish epidemiologist, Morten Frisch, said the research flaws were ”of such a grave nature that no decent peer-reviewed scientific journal should let it pass for publication”. Dr Frisch’s 2009 study found there was an increase in the mortality rate of same-sex couples in the first few years of marriage but this was likely due to pre-existing illness.
”Although further study is needed, the claims of drastically increased overall mortality in gay men and lesbians appear unjustified,” he concluded.
Unlike say Shagger Thomson, Abbott has a pretty good success rate on defamation actions. Ask Bob Ellis and Random House. Bob Hawke practically used defamation settlements as a second income during his time in politics.
While there probably isn’t much to be gained whacking Marr and the collapsing house of Fauxfax, it would be fun.
First up: that staffer who followed Gillard’s orders on Australia Day and used black fellas to physically assault Tony Abbott.
Then, interviews please with Mesdames Wilson and Emersen.
More please on Craig Thompson and the robbing of female hospital workers to pay prostitutes – all fully defended by Julia Gillard and Anthony Albanese.
m0mty, take your Menzies straw man and fuck off.
My point remains, you view attacks from the right of the ALP as being attacks from the “Right”. What a crock of shit.
To the majority (55/45 2PP), the view from the right of the ALP is still a view from the left.
It beggars belief that you consider a right ALP view as being of the Right.
Dissembling and obfuscation at its worst.
A Sydney researcher who runs the Gay Community Periodic Surveys, Martin Holt, said Dr Jensen’s vague assertion that the lifespan of practising gays was significantly shorter than heterosexual men seemed to originate from discredited US research.
LOL.
Nice dodge using lezos too.
No no. Sodomy is driving an epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases and death. Just as there is no ‘safe’ amount of smoking, there is no ‘safe’ number of anal ‘sex’ encounters. Not even with condoms.
I just challenged it above numbnuts.
So your response is “the article was not impartial”.
My question was “is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?” Do you have an answer to that question?
THE first cigarettes in plain packaging have hit the major supermarkets – and they don’t comply with the government’s strict new rules.
One company, Imperial Tobacco, is using the new packaging to directly challenge the government by telling its Peter Stuyvesant brand customers “it’s what’s on the inside that counts”.
Roxon’s head will explode in 3…2…1
“Soon no one will see Peter Stuyvesant on the outside but we don’t care. We’re going plain early, because we know Peter Stuyvesant will continue to live on inside,” the company says in a leaflet advertising its packaging
First up: that staffer who followed Gillard’s orders on Australia Day and used black fellas to physically assault Tony Abbott.
Then, interviews please with Mesdames Wilson and Emersen.
More please on Craig Thompson and the robbing of female hospital workers to pay prostitutes – all fully defended by Julia Gillard and Anthony Albanese.
Then back to the Slater & Gordon/slush fund pong.
Oh now that student politics in is in play don’t forget:
Gillard being president of an organisation that:
1. Officially stated that all men are rapists
2. Stated that marriage is akin to prostitution.
3. Officially endorsed violence to achieve political ends
Also we need to have a look at Gillard’s part in the rorting of the WA miners fund – where it is alleged she was used as a shill to “convince” the miners to hand over control of their fund to her grifter boyfriend.
Also let’s have a look at Conroy and Shorten’s time as union “officials” – an area always guaranteed to pay dividends.
Actually I’m coming around to a defamation suit against Marr.
It would be even sweeter if Marr was bankrupt. Because ‘I can’t sue because he is bankrupt’ is a lame, lame excuse.
But a good defamation suit prosecuted properly would show that anyone who is sure of the facts takes action.
Get onto it, Liberal HQ. Teach Marr a lesson. He is such a poor excuse for an opinion writer. There’s no doubt he’d rather be taking drugs and waffling BS to friends than actually trying to do research. The ultimate empty suit.
“While there probably isn’t much to be gained whacking Marr and the collapsing house of Fauxfax, it would be fun.”
Not for any money, but for the principle. David Marr has been trying to destroy Tony Abbott’s political career and personal reputation, which affects voters’ perception of him and the Coalition. He’s been insinuating that Mr Abbott is a woman beating thug.
(and W. Swan called him a ‘thug’ in parliament based on Marr’s lies).
All of which must cause distress to Mr Abbott’s family too.
In fact, if it was up to me, involvement in university student politics should keep you out of Parliament rather than be a stepping stone on the way in.
If you had your way, Steve, the Labor party would not exist.
So your response is “the article was not impartial”.
Both that it was impartial and also hilarious.
Take a guess how they improve their figures:
”The gist of the Camerons’ argument was that lesbians and gay men must die younger than their heterosexual peers because they appeared to be under-represented in studies of older people,” Dr Holt, from the University of NSW, said…
A public health researcher, Julie Mooney-Somers, of the University of Sydney, said a biennial survey on the health of lesbian and bisexual women…
Throw in some dykes and you can fix some better numbers.
But Wallace was almost certainly referring to homosexual men alone.
Fpr Monty
Your definition of someone way too close to be objective rings true for both sides, mate!
I’ve always said that about Barrie Cassidy and Kerry O’Brien who worked closely in Labor so gee whiz how could they be objective?
Guess it comes down to the reader/listener to distill info and make up their own minds!
A 2010 report from England indicated that those diagnosed with HIV still had a decreased life expectancy of about 13 years, but it also claims (I am not sure how they can tell this) that recently diagnosed who got onto treatment fast may have “normal” life expectancy. That would seem to me to be a guess, really, as the long term effects of being on the antivirals surely can’t yet be known.
I think being on the antivirals has all sorts of side effects too, and part of the anti AIDS education now is trying to convince young people that it is still something you really do not want to be on, even if you are not going to die of it within 10 or 20 years, as used to be the case.
It would seem that the Wallace figures are therefore inaccurate and out of date, and CL, who does not “do” science, simply won’t admit the exaggeration, or that gay men who are monogamus and HIV negative are capable of having at least some anal sex with very low likelihood of health consequences. (I would assume that giving that part of your body daily punishment is not a good idea, but you would have to assume that its frequency drops off in long term relationships anyway. And, of course, some gay men never do it.)
To the extent that the CL side of the argument has any merit, I suppose I would agree with the proposition that if it weren’t for general modern squeamishness (from not only the Left, but libertarian types too) about people being told what’s a good or bad way to conduct their private lives, one would think that sensible advice to all people (gay or straight) is that promiscuity can have serious health consequences and they should not be promiscuous for health reasons. This is a particularly important message for gay men in Australia because of the profile of HIV here. In Africa, it applies to both gay and straight men equally.
In other words, I would like to see the ABC ((abstinence, monogamy and condoms) approach such as that done with some success in Uganda be tried here within the gay community, but political correctness prevents it, and I think that is to be regretted.
I would be impressed if someone from somewhere in the gay community would one day say, hey, gay men: instead of always relying on condoms and safe sex (which you’re going to probably not always do perfectly anyway) why don’t you try not having casual sex, and monogamy once you find a lover you like.
“why don’t you try not having casual sex, and monogamy once you find a lover you like.”
won’t work, homosexual men are known to have many partners, may be called promiscuous. Perhaps because you’ve got 2 guys with testosterone and availabilty of “bath houses” and other places for many brief encounters.
So health information to them is real important and to check with doctors over any problems.
Announcement by US embassy in Egypt seems to prove the US government under Obama has chosen to use this video by Andrew Klavan as an instructional video instead of a parody:
Annoucement by US Embassy after a bunch of Islamist extremists storm the compound was unbelievable:
The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.
I see the formatting buttons have gone, but this is from The Hill yesterday:
Several polls released in recent days show Obama displaying new strength among male voters. Romney needs to win the male electorate by a wide margin to overcome the chronic disadvantage the GOP faces with respect to women.
A CNN poll released Monday showed Obama moving into a small lead among men, besting Romney 48 percent to 47. The finding was especially notable because CNN, in a poll conducted about a week prior, had shown Romney holding a 12-point lead among men (55 percent to 43).
Obama still obviously masculine enough for American male voters.
Yesterday, just before 5pm while walking the dogs with my wife, I was run by a Liberal staffer saying Labor was shopping around the press gallery the line that Tony Abbott was such an insensitive oaf that he’d probably go in too hard on Julia Gillard when she returned to Parliament next week.
This, of course, is part of a Labor campaign to frame Abbott as just the kind of sexist who’d punch the wall next to a woman’s head.
So imagine my astonishment this morning at reading this in The Age from Michelle Grattan:
TONY Abbott will face a test of taste and tactics when Julia Gillard returns to Parliament next week, still mourning the death of her father.
Coincidence, I’m sure. Although Grattan seems unusually receptive to that Abbott-is-a-sexist smear.
Hey if they can smear Abbott that he attacked Gillard over her involvement in the Wilson scandal, which he didn’t do but facts and these stenographers are mutual strangers, then falsely pre-empting what Abbott will do next week is easy-peasey.
Let’s also remeber Gillard slipped in the Labor/union advert into her press release advising her father’s death.
Rabz @12.38
There was a thread on the Cat (22/06) about the author of that piece of shite.
On the thread twostix made the following post,
Ben Eltham is a writer, critic and creative producer from Melbourne, Australia. He writes on cultural policy, theatre, music and letters for a range of Australian print and online publications including The Courier-Mail, NewMatilda.com, Meanjin Quarterly, Artlink, Art Monthly Australia, Mess+Noise and Crikey. In 2002 he founded Straight Out of Brisbane, or “SOOB”, a festival of independent and emerging arts, culture and ideas. Before that he has worked as an orgainser for groundbreaking Newcastle, NSW festival, This Is Not Art, as well as Editor of the University of Queensland student newspaper, Semper Floreat, and as a freelance writer and cultural consultant. He graduated with a Honours degree in cellular neuroscience from UQ in 1999 and is currrently enrolled in a PhD course at the University of Western Sydney’s Centre for Cultural Research. He is a Fellow of the Centre for Policy Development.
What is it in particular about you Ben, that you are elevated to the position of lecturing Australia via the government media arm ?
What in this resume qualifies you for that?
I think in this circumstance the same question needs to be asked: What qualifies a cellular neuroscientist to be commenting on the Queensland budget?
Why is their ABC paying him for this? Surely The Dumb would be able to find a more qualified stenographer from their salaried employees?
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has accused Twitter of treating Australia’s laws with contempt over its failure to hand over evidence to authorities investigating cyber-abuse.
Intensifying pressure on the company after several recent high-profile cases of cyber-abuse in Australia, Senator Conroy also said Twitter was acting as if it was “above the law“.
Twitter, which is based in the United States, has a policy of handing over users’ details to foreign authorities if they are requested via a US court…
“You might think Twitter started just as a tiny little company in someone’s basement. They’re now a global company, they have global responsibilities, and they should not treat sovereign nations like Australia, and our laws, with the contempt that they currently are,” Senator Conroy said on Sydney’s Radio 2GB today.
“But to be fair to them, they’re treating their own country’s laws with contempt.”
On September 12, 1996, barely four months after arriving in the Senate, Conroy used privilege to target a dissident faction in the NSW postal workers’ union which had mounted a successful court challenge to an election victory by the Labor Right faction. War ensued. Smear-sheets – usually defamatory, always anonymous – were distributed by the thousands, attacking the reputations of opponents.
In the Senate, Conroy joined in, accusing the two men who had exposed the election corruption, Noel Battese and Quentin Cook, of being responsible for the fraud: “Justice Moore has exposed that supporters of the Cook-Battese team were involved in electoral fraud … A member of the Cook-Battese team has pointed directly at who is responsible … One of his own has given him up.”
Ugly. The judge had found precisely the opposite. Conroy had made his speech on the eve of the new union election. Within 24 hours, thousands of copies of his speech – in the authoritative format of Hansard – were distributed around mail centres under the heading, “The Cheat Team”.
Battese challenged Conroy to repeat his remarks outside Parliament.
Silence.
I faxed a dozen questions to Conroy about his speech.
Between 2010 and 2099, climate change will cause an additional 30,000 murders, 200,000 cases of rape, 1.4 million aggravated assaults, 2.2 million simple assaults, 400,000 robberies, 3.2 million burglaries, 3.0 million cases of larceny, and 1.3 million cases of vehicle theft in the United States.
On the last night of the Democratic National Convention, a retired Navy four-star took the stage to pay tribute to veterans. Behind him, on a giant screen, the image of four hulking warships reinforced his patriotic message.
But there was a big mistake in the stirring backdrop: those are Russian warships…
Naval experts concluded the background was a photo composite of Russian ships that were overflown by what appear to be U.S. trainer jets. It remains unclear how or why the Democratic Party used what’s believed to be images of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at their convention.
THE Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, and former Wallabies captain John Eales have backed a bid for Sydney to host the gay rugby world championships in 2014.
Gillard and Eales took part in a pitch for the biennial Bingham Cup to be held in Australia, calling Sydney a natural fit for the gay and inclusive competition.
Rabz, I couldn’t help myself. I went back to the piece on the Dumb and started to read the comments where I came across this beauty,
Everyone should be guaranteed a public servant position if they wish – then there would never again need to be unemployment and underprivilege. Why have we never thought of this before?
I genuinely don’t know if it was said tongue in cheek.
Some of the other stuff on there is just stupid beyond belief.
Political beliefs are portrayed as being along a straight line ie;
Left——————–Centre—————-Right
I actually believe that it should be portrayed more as a circle where the Far Left & Far Right merge together.
It really is amazing how similarly stupid those at the political extremes are.
THE Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, and former Wallabies captain John Eales have backed a bid for Sydney to host the gay rugby world championships in 2014.
The rules of rugby have turned the once beautiful game into a disgusting bath house scene, they may as well celebrate that fact.
MALE-TO-FEMALE transsexuals have a legal right to breast enlargement operations when hormone therapy fails to give them a feminine shape, a German federal court has ruled.
A transsexual may receive implants if her new breasts have not yet reached the size of a bra’s A-cup, the Federal Social Court in the central city of Kassel said.
“Transsexual insurance policy-holders can make a claim to treatment measures to allow them to adapt their gender, including surgical procedures on healthy organs to minimise their psychological suffering, so as to approach the appearance of the other sex that is desired,” the court said.
It said such a procedure was justified even if the patient had not yet had a sex-change operation.
The court ruled in the case of a 62-year-old whose health insurance plan paid for hormone treatment and a sex change but whose breasts failed to grow to female proportions.
The insurance company declined to pay for an operation for larger breasts.
Can you give these guys their own thread and ban discussion of Abortion, Climate Change and Homosexuality/SSM from the open thread.
Good idea, especially climate change.
There are plenty of articles about climate change with comments threads, and so there is no reason to also discuss it in the open forum.
A considered view on the great surrender to the Islamists in Cairo:
If Jimmy Carter doesn’t put Barack Obama on his Christmas card list, he will be forever marked as an insufferable ingrate with a funny accent. Carter gave us the Ayatollah and the Red Army on the move. But under the drab, sickly stewardship of President Obama, where allies are treated like enemies and enemies are treated like allies, anti-American sentiment abroad and at home is making unprecedented headway.
Just how do we explain our response to a mob of savages who scale the walls of our embassy, pull down our flag and rip it to shreds, replacing it with a hideous black flag that says, “There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger”? The proximate cause of the unhinged brigades? What else? A film that depicts Mohammed in less than flattering light.
“You might think Twitter started just as a tiny little company in someone’s basement. They’re now a global company, they have global responsibilities, and they should not treat sovereign nations like Australia, and our laws, with the contempt that they currently are,” Senator Conroy said on Sydney’s Radio 2GB today.
What about Iran? Do they have to abide by Irans laws too? What of Russian Law? Conroy demands American citizens be held to Russian law because they run a website accessible to Australians?
How does this work Conroy you 19th century throwback?
He’s such an extraordinary dumbshit, worse than Alston by a million yet the IT boobs who once flung so much shit Alstons way over his mildly stupid comments regarding technology are no where to be found re Conroy’s thickheaded, neo luddite, unmasked fascism.
Hey, remember how Rudd and Gillard promised to cut homelessless?
Mission accomplished!
AUSTRALIA’S estimate of its homeless population has been revised down by 15,000 people under a new definition of exactly what living rough is.
Four years after former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd pledged to halve Australia’s homeless population of 105,000, the Australian Bureau of Statistics has declared in fact the problem should instead be placed at around 90,000 people.
Conroys comments are the manifestation of an ugly delusion that has been brewing and growing in the Australian left for a decade now: That anybody in the world gives a fuck about what this tiny little country thinks or does. Recently we saw it with their rhetoric about being “leaders” in implementing a carbon dioxide tax, Rudd’s outlandish narcissism at the Copenhagen summit and Gillard daring to lecturing Europe.
Now Conroy literally thinks he’s going to bully an American company, in America, with no presence in Australia, into doing what he tells them? Simply because he’s Australia’s communications minister for at most 12 more months?
It’s just stupid on every single level, yet there’s a pretty large portion of the population that’ll just eat it up.
Now conboy literally thinks he’s going to bully an American company, in America, with no presence in Australia, into doing what he tells them? Simply because he’s Australia’s communications monster for at most 12 more months?
stix – you’re railing about the sort of softcock who bawled his eyes out in parliament about some ‘nuclear milk’ popping up that stinking toilet the UK, many many decades ago.
stix – you’re railing about the sort of softcock who bawled his eyes out in parliament about some ‘nuclear milk’ popping up that stinking toilet the UK, many many decades ago.
stix – you’re railing about the sort of softcock who bawled his eyes out in parliament about some ‘nuclear milk’ popping up that stinking toilet the UK, many many decades ago.
Yes, he’s a prime reason we should ban immigration from that shithole until they start producing men again.
you’re railing about the sort of softcock who bawled his eyes out in parliament about some ‘nuclear milk’ popping up that stinking toilet the UK, many many decades ago.
Conroy is a crybaby which is one of the reasons he is so enthusiastic about Finkelstein. The sense of entitlement is strong in him, even by Labor standards. And remember, The Australian stated that the leads and info on the Wilson scandal it had received had come from within Labor yet Conroy declared on breakfast television that it was all a Liberal Party smear. This is the child who wants to Finkelstein the media for truthiness.
Malaysian police have shut down a car wash that was offering regular customers free sex after every ninth car wash.
Malaysian newspaper The Malay Mail reports the car wash in the Kuala Lumpur suburb of Sunway Mentari had been open for three months and had formed a partnership with a local massage parlour, enabling customers to redeem free sex from the brothel as part of a customer loyalty scheme.
A fitting end to one of the most disastrous conventions in US history…
I would really, really like to know what you do for a living, CL, because if it is something that involves the exercise of common sense and judgement and may possibly affect me, I need to know so as to avoid your lack of it.
I would really, really like to know what you do for a living, CL, because if it is something that involves the exercise of common sense and judgement and may possibly affect me …
I’m not an Avon lady, Steve, so you’re fine.
The Democrat convention was a disaster.
Even the US love media criticised it as a series of embarrassing bungles, almost without precedent in the history of these heavily choreographed events.
Anna Burke – who also appears to be slightly deranged – has today completely corrupted Question Time by allowing the government’s entire list of Dorothy Dixers to be about state government policies.
This has never been allowed before.
She is an incompetent idiot and a disgrace to the office.
A SOCIAL media commentator has exposed a deleted tweet from rugby league star Robbie Farah, sparking calls for an explanation from the anti-trolling campaigner.
Text100 digital strategist Karalee Evans found a Tweet from September last year, when Farah suggested Prime Minister Julia Gillard should get “a noose” for her birthday.
The deleted Tweet, in response to a question from rugby league mate Mark Geyer, read: “‘@markMgeyer: What would you buy the PM for her birthday? It’s her 50th today….’ a noose…”.
The next morning he dismissed criticism and said he was not talking about Ms Gillard committing suicide.
“Some people on twitter obviously can’t take a joke. Lighten up people,” he said.
If this disgusts you, keep in mind that the Obama administration revealed this guy helped them get Osama bin Laden in leaks to get some cheap headlines in the NY Times:
Shakeel Afridi, who was sentenced to 33 years in prison for aiding militant groups, told Fox News in a telephone interview how he was blindfolded for eight months, handcuffed for a year and forced to eat his meals like a dog when interrogated by Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency at its headquarters in Islamabad.
CL, I know you seem to live in some alternative universe at the moment, but ignoring your version of what the media said about the convention, how do you explain the widely reported improvement in Obama’s polling since his convention (and the more modest boost Romney got from his)?
sounds like it, or something that made him paranoid and he felt he had to escape by jumping to a tree.
poor bugger.
Candy, from the sounds of it I don’t think that you are right.
It appears that he got lost and found his way out to a mezzanine level which had a self locking door. As he was in an area for employees only, it sounds like you needed an access pass or key to open the door, so he was faced with 2 choices: wait for someone to come & open the door (likely to be a long wait at 4.00am local) or, do what any young athlete in the prime of their life would do when full of alcohol and invincibility- climb down.
When you have a look at the photo, the trunk of the palm tree only seems to be a meter or so from the edge, so with beer goggles on it would not have looked such a leap of faith to jump out, grab a hold and slide down to the ground.
Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, his plan did not work out.
Moody’s Warns That U.S. May Face Debt Downgrade
By JONATHAN WEISMAN
WASHINGTON — Congressional leaders dug in their heels on Tuesday against any quick deal to resolve a looming fiscal disaster before the election, even as a major ratings agency warned that it would downgrade the government’s debt if no solution was found by year’s end.
Oh, how he would love to get his filthy little totalitarian hands on the Australian internet feed.
After his creepy, totalitarian attempt to institute a Chinese inspired censorship regime was thwarted and he was soundly flogged and embarrassed by private ISP’s at every turn he suddenly (but totally separately!) came up with the idea of a fully nationalised network.
Where the old NBN would be built and owned by private contractors using the copper network, this new government owned network would not just sit alongside the older networks, no it would replace them by government fiat. Here’s the brilliance of his new regime: the government would pay companies to tear their billion dollar competing networks out of the ground to ensure nobody could ever use them again. All ISP’s would be forced to use the government network.
None of this has anything to do with his original utter failure to force private ISP’s to filter the internet or his utter embarrassment at their hands. No we’re to believe that child porn, viruses, spam, “hate speech”, “offensive tweets” and illegally transferred copyrighted material will traverse the Steven Conroy designed government network freely in spite of him spending a large chunk of political capital campaigning to ban those things on private networks…
“Some people on twitter obviously can’t take a joke. Lighten up people,” he said.
I mentioned the other day that where while the tweet to him about his mother despite being offensive isn’t currently illegal, the menacing reply he made back according to Roxon was by definition illegal.
Yet that wee matter was totally ignored not just by the media, but by every level of government, from premier, to AG to PM.
I do not think we live in a country where the law is evenly applied.
I don’t think you know what effects LSD can have on a person. No rational, or even drunk person, decides to jump from a building to a palm tree in order to get themselves down to street level.
No, you are right about the LSD Dan.
But I do know what it is like to be 22, playing high level sport and have been drinking for 12 hours.
No-one and nothing could possibly hurt me, I was king of the world. I could take Mike Tyson. Leap tall buildings in a single bound? Pfft- easy!
Haven’t most of us been there before?
Thankfully, most of us are lucky enough to get through this period and grow into cantankerous middle age.
Doug Cameron going off the deep end in Parliament over Gina. Poor old delusional bastard, he’s lost the plot. Early onset Dementia maybe?
What are they going to do when after they’ve gone to all this effort this week, the maximum amount possible, and next Monday the polls haven’t changed one iota?
Then what?
Are they going to go crazy and start blowing shit up?
“Are they going to go crazy and start blowing shit up?”
they’ll be watching the Coalition to see they show the appropriate amount of sympathy and understanding to Ms Gillard (which they will), but one challenging question from the opposition to Ms Gillard and all hell will break loose about Tony Abbott’s hard heartedness etc.
it never ends.
Yep, you’d want the ‘Soap on a Rope’ option. I gave one to my then boyfriend when he went off to a footy carnival – I think he appreciated it. well, I thought it was funn.
Yep, you’d want the ‘Soap on a Rope’ option. I gave one to my then boyfriend when he went off to a footy carnival – I think he appreciated it. Well, I thought it was funny.
I think if Abbott just says ‘hello’ to Gillard next week it’ll be enough to set the Labor crazies off in an ABbottAbbottAbbott/misogynist feeding frenzy. They all seems somewhat unhinged these days.
This hopeless Gillard government looks more like the collapse of Whitlam with every day that passes.
The vitriolic attacks on the opposition and the government’s enemies is way worse than 1975. Large slabs of the media abandoning their adversarial role to barrack for the government of the day is also unprecedented in Australian political history. The air tax is at least as big a disaster as the Khemlani loans affair.
I wonder if Peter Slipper is interested in the position of honorary chaplain for the gay rugby carnival.
The problem with this proposition is highlighted. Slippery would only be interested if there’s a big payout attached. And thats before he had lots of hungry lawyers to feed.
Communist Bob Katter – on the public tit since the 1970s – joined the union protest today, saying Newman had had a year to fix everything but hadn’t ‘created’ any ‘jobs’ (public service positions).
But the latest figures show the Howard government’s Pacific Solution was almost 400 per cent more successful in stopping the flow of asylum-seeker boats than the current Gillard government plan.
They should just bring copies of the posters spotted in Plibersek’s office and hold it up when Labor starts when the wife of the dealer starts up with Abbott, Abbott, Abbott and reply in her dopey voice – “It’s just a joke”.
The author is the ultra stupid cnut George Monbiot who having realised that global warming is dead has as new target in mind. I would force feed this swine like a goose until he popped.
We don’t really understand diet and brain chem. let alone body chemistry yet (we only found leptin about 10 years ago) and Moron-bot wants to ban/regulate/tax junk food ala “take on junk food peddlers”?
Fuck me. What a clown.
He is spreading his vile ideology everywhere.
No doubt he’d eat some organic/fairtrade shite chocolate by the barrel.
George is well intentioned but not always reliable.
Re fishing supertrawlers: I thought this blog was always sympathetic to recreational fishers.
Recreational fishers think stopping the supertrawler is a good idea:
THE Australian Recreational Fishing Foundation (ARFF), the peak body representing the recreational fishing sector, is calling on the Federal Government to amend the changes to the EPBC Amendment (Declared Fishing Activities) Bill 2012 so that a declared fishing activity under the amendment to the legislation is a commercial fishing activity only, not to include recreational fishing.
ARFF Director, Allan Hansard, said “this legislation should be about stopping industrial fishing activities, where there is uncertainty about the sustainability or the environmental, social and economic impacts, particularly where it is not underpinned by appropriate science.
“It should not be about stopping mums, dads and kids from going and catching a fish in Australian waters.
“We call on the Government to amend this legislation immediately so that the activities of the super trawler can be stopped, we also call on the Coalition to support this amendment.”
I am a recreational fisher and I think it is a terrible idea.
I like to eat fish. I like to eat! I like affordable food – as a spoilt 1st world resident. The trawler could do no more than to buy the quotas. Furthermore, with the absence of gill nets and long lines – it would have done little damage.
The Green’s plan to shut down fishing is also a terrible idea.
Do you really think they’ll just stop at commercial fishing?
What needs to be done is the recreational trust system like in NSW needs to be applied everywhere. Each area would set their own purchasable and transferable quotas.
We must also remove some of the more ridiculous fishing legislation, such as bag limits on introduced species (we pay to restock them anyway) and the ban on inland fishing except for carp, redfin and limited yabbie fishing. It is absurd that you cannot commercially catch Atlantic Salmon in Burrinjuck dam.
What we need to do is have quotas set up for ocean fishing for the entire exclusive economic zone through trusts.
Another absurdity is that you cannot grow endangered species (say, Silver Perch) on a farm near a river – because they might escape in a flood event – even if the river is part of the natural habitat (say Murray Darling).
Yep, you cannot “risk” letting an endangered species go back into its native habitat.
The fishing regs are stupid across the whole Commonwealth, both in State and Federal law.
Recreational fishing in WA is very strict – what for – recreational fishers make up bugger all of the total catch.
Fishing in NSW is locked up as a protected industry to a few monopolistic family businesses – obviously blame 16 years of ALP Governance. The rules for how you become a professional fisherman are ridiculous. Let’s say you lived up near Bourke and wanted to catch carp. Easy. The licence is cheap.
The real shit shocker is obtaining an “inland coxswains rating”. It basically amounts to another $2000 with all the licensing and workcover courses. To become licensed to do a public service (eliminate carp) which you can onsell, your fees are $6000 all up – low for most businesses but steep considering the positive externality you provide and your capital all up might be $15-$20k including the licences. What is so bad? You are required to do 900 hours on the water as a coxswains’ mate – you be able to check yabby traps or cast seine nets for carp – otherwise you cannot legally do the fishing yourself – you would require someone else to pilot your tinnie! Fucking outrageous!
Back to aquaculture – requiring a licence of any kind to farm native fish within their native riprarian habitat watersheds (or rivers where they have been introduced, say Murray Cod in the Yarra) is just totally unecessary and unjust.
Sarah Palin speaking up for Americans, unlike Obama.
Apparently President Obama can’t see Egypt and Libya from his house. On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attacks ever perpetrated on America, our embassy in Cairo and our consulate in Benghazi were attacked by violent Islamic mobs. In Cairo, they scaled the walls of our embassy, destroyed our flag, and replaced it with a black Islamic banner. In Benghazi, the armed gunmen set fire to our consulate and killed an American staff member. The Islamic radicals claim that these attacks are in protest to some film criticizing Islam. In response to this, the U.S. embassy in Cairo issued a statement that was so outrageous many of us thought it must be a satire. The embassy actually apologized to the violent mob attacking us, and it even went so far as to chastise those who use free speech to “hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.” (Funny, the current administration has no problem hurting the “religious feelings” of Catholics.)
I note for the record that Steve has no interest in the science and statistics that have been martialled – and which comprehensively demolish the extremist Gillard government OMG TWAWLER panic.
For those joining us late, Steve is a life-long ‘conservative’ Liberal voter.
Re fishing supertrawlers: I thought this blog was always sympathetic to recreational fishers.
Most recos for obvious self interested reasons would like all commercial fishing banned steve.
We catch our own fish to eat, is that what you’re going to do too? Everytime you want some fish fingers or fish and chips are you going to get your rod out and catch it first?
Don’t be stupid.
Also the idea that there’s some group that “represents” the ridiculously disparate group of people who fish is of course stupid in the extreme.
This trawler ( pelagic only ) legally purchased government allotted quotas.
What is the difference between 1 boat catching 10 tonnes or 10 boats catching 1 tonne each ?
And under vastly more stringent monitoring in regards to bye catch.
What is the difference between 1 boat catching 10 tonnes or 10 boats catching 1 tonne each ?
Efficiency and better quality because the super trawler will be processing and freezing the catch all on the one vessel. Smaller vessels need to spend time to get back to port for processing with catch sitting around with its guts still inside.
With respect to a land value tax on the unimproved capital value of the land. Given the size of the EEZ and the sheer volume of the water column above each unit of the seabed, it also gives us a chance to flatten the tax base a bit more.
Private ownership encourages good environmental stewardship.
Marxists think private property is evil. Many of them still infest the ALP and Greens. We can never expect good policy to arise from those parties.
Moore: ‘Greenpeace and its allies have successfully blocked the introduction of golden rice for over a decade’ — WHO says ‘between 250,000 to 500,000 children become blind every year due to vitamin A deficiency, half of whom die within a year of becoming blind’
Puts a whole new perspective on the vandals of CSIRO getting off with just a fine.
And these psychotic killers have the nerve to call for charges against climate sceptics for crimes against humanity.
Remember this when the next supercilious Greenpeace prat wants to accost you to “teach” you all about climate change.
Furthermore, with the absence of gill nets and long lines – it would have done little damage.
It is an indictment showing how fucked up modern media reporting is. These huge trawlers are better for the environment because their activities can be much more cheaply monitored and given the catch size it is in the owner’s interest to maximise the cleanest catch possible. So while the media is painting a picture oceanic genocide(and yes I do know fish stocks are seriously depleted but that’s another argument and one I won’t have here with all the ranting anything greenie must be stupid bullshit) but large scale fishing like this is ultimately better for all concerned, including marine life.
The at a whim shutdown of what two days ago was a legitimate and “approved” fishing business, the unilateral shutdown of the live cattle industry and Conroys lamentations that Twitter is out of reach and the ALP’s power drunk easy talk about “regulating” the media I think shows the difference between the US and here right now. It shows starkly that we have a serious, serious lack of protection from the government in this country and that our national system is inherently flawed.
Consider that if Twitter was Australian the government would undoubtedly either have simply shut them down or completely knobbled them in response to the fabricated “community outrage” over “trolls” this week.
Yet Twitter and thousands of other “controversial” organisations like them operate with impunity in the US, confident of relative sovereignty.
If this government has shown us anything it’s that we’re not free in perpetuity and that we probably only feel free now because the relatively young commonwealth government simply hasn’t yet gotten around to banning and regulating everything it wants to.
Private ownership encourages good environmental stewardship.
Damn straight, ask any farmer that took on his Dads farm and wants to pass it to his kids.
The green think every primary producer is a vandal with destructive intent, nothing could be further from the truth.
Where would we be without them.
———————————-
Keith, spot on.
The idea that recreational fisherman ‘support’ the trawler is a load of collectivist hogwash.
I would say, without doubt, that you couldn’t get 3 recreational fisherman to agree on the best way to tie on a hook.
Anyone who thinks they operate like a union and elect some representative to speak on their behalf betrays a lifetime of collectivist brainwashing that some type of fancy title and letterhead gives a person any authority.
Recreational fisherman are fiercely individual, and jealousy guard fishing spots, secrets and techniques. I have personally witnessed many boat-ramp unloadings where the fisherman loudly declares a particular location ‘fished out and no good anymore’ with several eskies of catch in the hull.
You couldn’t get 10 fisherman in a room to agree on what time of day is the best to fish at, let alone whether or not the particular legislation under discussion here was good or not.
What primary industries has the Gillard-Milne Government tried to shut down?
Northern Beef Cattle industry (based on a lie)
Southern trawl pelagic fishery (based on misinformation and hysteria)
Queensland commercial fishery (based on disputable ecological data)
Murray Darling citrus (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling rice (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling wheat (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling sheep (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling dairy (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water
Coal mining (based on an ETS no other country follows)
Iron ore mining (because they are greedy)
Polymetallic porphyryous mining (greed, & have pumped up energy costs re ETS)
This Government is hell-bent on destroying industry with low levels of industry protections, high multipliers to other sectors, high export and foreign exchange earners and that have comparative advantage globally – some have near absolute advantage and proximity to markets which are/were the envy of the world.
I would say, without doubt, that you couldn’t get 3 recreational fisherman to agree on the best way to tie on a hook.
I only use snell and double blood knots myself, and on occasion, a perfection loop. Outside of rigging for saltwater gamefishing (ala four turn water knots) I don’t see the point.
You would not believe how bloody controversial my point of view is!
>You would not believe how bloody controversial my point of view is!
A strong hook knot is probably the only applicable use of the precautionary principle in the entire planet. Nothing is more crushing than losing a fish because your knot came undone.
Did anyone see Kevni on the ALPBC just now, talking to Sales?
Seriously, I thought he was going to explode in a toxic brew of unctuousness, smarminess and self-love, leaving gibbets of malevolent sanctimoniousness festooning the halls of whatever World Economic Forum wankfest he is currently attending. Why the hell a backbencher is there, wherever it is, was not explained, but there he was, name-dropping that he had just been talking to Gordon Brown, another sociopath, another man completely unable to relate to normal people, another man convinced that he is right, has always been right and that he in fact cannot be wrong.
At least in Brown’s company Kevni is a comparative babe in the woods: repellent plotter and schemer though he may be, he is not in Brown’s league, not having presided over a cabal of some of the most thuggish and rotten characters ever to besmirch British politic. But they are very similar in that after coveting the top job for years they both found that they were completely not up to it.
Amazingly, the true effect of the methods over many years of Brown’s henchcrew is better known to people ostensibly on the same side of politics than it is to the Tories: anyone who might oppose Gordon in any way had to be character-assassinated, briefed-against, blackmailed and threatened into submission, and spun, spun, spun out of whatever stance they had, or out of politics together. When the emails to and from the repulsive McBride to the likes of Balls, Draper and Whelan finally lifted the lid on this steaming pile of ordure, if Brown had had any moral aspect to his character he would have gone then. But of course he chose to hang on. As the egregious McTernan urges Gillard daily.
Truly, Rudd and Brown are made for each other, these scabs on their respective polities. No wonder they’re buddying up on the rubber-chicken circuit.
But as Kevni was telling the adoring Sales – Abbott would be a bad Prime Minister.
Moore: ‘Greenpeace and its allies have successfully blocked the introduction of golden rice for over a decade’ — WHO says ‘between 250,000 to 500,000 children become blind every year due to vitamin A deficiency, half of whom die within a year of becoming blind’
They are total and absolute scum. anyone remotely involved with them is scum
Vanity Fair writer Michael Lewis agreed to allow the White House to approve the quotations he used from President Barack Obama in his story about the president in this month’s magazine…
Mr. Lewis said there was one particularly moving exchange with the president that he wished he could have described in greater detail. But the White House nixed the idea, perhaps wary of having the commander in chief described as in tears.
Anybody who “encourages” Gillard and the ALP in general to keep going at this stage either hates the ALP or love themselves more than they care about the party.
A NSW style wipe out federally coupled with the total evaporation of the ALP’s traditional demographic, no significant government at any level and lack of ideas would make it rather difficult for the ALP to run a proper national campaign next time around, if ever again.
Gillard knows this and doesn’t care, she’s operating inline with her life long belief that the ALP is a discardable vehicle to be used to usher in the new era of 30%-35% of GDP government.
But surely somebody in the party is prepared to “endure” a term or three of Abbott for the sake of the longterm survival of the old party?
Steve is a life-long ‘conservative’ Liberal voter.
Yes and I’m the Tooth fairy.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 6:34 pm
Well if that’s the case little Miss Entropy has a beef with you. In her view a molar is a real big tooth, and should be worth $5, not the piddly $3 that you, who as a fairy is apparently a ‘fail’, gave her last Sunday.
Seriously, I thought he was going to explode in a toxic brew of unctuousness, smarminess and self-love, leaving gibbets of malevolent sanctimoniousness festooning the halls of whatever World Economic Forum wankfest he is currently attending.
I’m not sure it’s a liberty quote, but I freaking love it!
Noticeably, the news coverage of the ruckus in QLD (and NSW) over sackings and cost cutting generally, has completely skated over the inevitable need for any responsible conservative government – when it replaces a Labor one – to do the right thing and bring the state or the nation’s accounts back into some semblance of respectability and, to borrow a term from the spinmeisters themselves, sustainability.
True to form, perspective is the first casualty of this class war, so it’s back to the old meme of “brutal uncaring conservative governments” hacking their way through the living flesh of the sacred public service.
No recognition of the bulking up of the public payroll with Departments of Climate Correctness or Departments of Let’s Look After Every Aspect of Your Life And Make You Totally Dependent And Submissive To While Voting For Us.
Little Miss Entropy will have to show significant productivity improvement with her chores if she wants a wage increase in the order of 67%. And if she stamps her little foot over that then she’s nothing but a welfare leech and needs to go get a job.
The complaint was done in a devastatingly cute way, Gab [i mean tooth fairy]. Think the lolly ad where the girl asks her father not to chop the dinosaur. Or Shirley Temple.
True to form, perspective is the first casualty of this class war, so it’s back to the old meme of “brutal uncaring conservative governments” hacking their way through the living flesh of the sacred public service.
I like the new class Coalition voters. Talking to my local tradies of late how much he cares about the public servants getting fat wads of go away money that whining.
The Liars Party can have all the Steve from Brisbane, we got the better part of the trade.
The US ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on Tuesday night that targeted his car in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, a Libyan official said on Wednesday.
The complaint was done in a devastatingly cute way, Gab [i mean tooth fairy]. Think the lolly ad where the girl asks her father not to chop the dinosaur. Or Shirley Temple.
I know the look, little miss Token knows how to turn cute to 11 when she wants something.
I’ve caught surfers a few times while fishing for tailor in the surf in winter. Three 4/0 ganged hooks. Lucky for them the hooks were only through the leg of their steamers.
Don’t know the names of my knots (I use 2 types depending on whether the hooks have eyes or not)
Newman’s hurry to sack them, after election promises to the contrary, is what will help Labor federally. Who can doubt that Abbott would be acting with similar haste?
Can anyone comment authoritatively on this?
Some say that China is heading for a schism. There are opposing forces at work at a high level, and things are not going well in the context of shrinking production. Hanyu commented about that recently, and I hear whispers from Chinese expats to the effect that things are likely to turn ugly.
Who can doubt that Abbott would be acting with similar haste?
I fucking hope so.
Most people here think Newman is a hero for firing 15,000 mooching swines. I think he should be shot for cowardice for not firing every single one of them.
Of course he is. Atractive women rejected him his whole life and he hates them passionately for that. The fact that most women can bench press more than him has also caused many issues.
Entropy, the rule of remuneration has always been the largest coin of the realm for the largest tooth.
Little Miss Entropy is allowed $2 per molar. The bicuspids and incisors are worth only $1.50. Gab, you’ve been overcharged. Demand refunds.
Which brings me to the introduction of a $5, $10, and $20 coin. Minted at literally cents each, they come out of the Mint at face value. The government gets the difference.
I’ve been waiting for it since this mob got in.
kevni is still a bit of a sweetheart. perhaps he’s a bit confused about his direction in life that’s all, at the moment. there again the Labor Party seems to lack direction and purpose too.
He was dreadful in the way he shouted at a female flight attendant becuase he didn’t get the food he wanted (oh yeah Shorten has form attacking a poor Asian pie shop lady)
Heard him get very snarly towards a female reporter when she pressed him to get an answer to a question he repeatedly avoided. Spoke to her like she was a lackey.
The side problem to the tooth episode was that Littlest Miss Entropy had also lost one of her lower front teeth at the same time, and it was tiny, especially compared with Little Miss Entropy’s great big molar.
But in our communist household, there is no differentiation on the quality or volume of production: “…to each according to his needs” applies to all (except me of course, for which ‘”from each according to his ability” applies).
Gab, I’m sure there are many, many men who have been on the receiving end of Rudd’s sharp tongue.
Look, I seriously don’t like the guy and think it would be a disaster for him to come back as leader. (You will claim I am lying: you would be wrong.) But that said, I’ve never thought that his behaviour was misogynistic in particular. Just general asshattery..
So let me get this right, Ent. Littlest Miss got the same amount$$ as Little Miss even though the tooth was much much much smaller than Little Miss’ tooth?
While I am telling kid’s stories, I will share the latest one about Littlest Miss Entropy:
Her first grade class has been having parent’s come in and describe what they do. I will leave the story of the neurosurgeon’s tale for another time. Anyway, the kids then have to make a presentation to the class (in dress no less) on what they want to be when they grow up (apprently they were only allowed to be some type of community worker, and the teacher had a handy little questionnaire to help them with the talk.
Littlest Miss Entropy got Miss Entropy to help her write her answers down, and of course they ignored the PC instructions (i am so proud!).
Q1: What do you want to be when you grow up?
A: A ballerina.
Q2: Why do you want to do that job?
A; Because ballerinas are pretty, and always wear dance clothes
Q3: How does your job help the community?
A; Because people look at you and feel happy.
Q4: What do you have to do to get your job?
A: Listen carefully to your teacher, and remember to always point your toes.
(Reuters) – The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on their car, a Libyan official said, as they were rushed from a consular building stormed by militants denouncing a U.S.-made film insulting the Prophet Mohammad.
Gunmen had attacked and burned the U.S. consulate in the eastern city of Benghazi, a center of last year’s uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, late on Tuesday evening, killing one U.S. consular official. The building was evacuated.
The Libyan official said the ambassador, Christopher Stevens, was being driven from the consulate building to a safer location when gunmen opened fire.
“The American ambassador and three staff members were killed when gunmen fired rockets at them,” the official in Benghazi told Reuters.
Obummer’s overt disdain for Israel and the killing of US embassy staff by ignorant Islamist hordes will certainly change the tenor of this media smothered presidential election campaign.
Clive Palmer is great entertainment on many fronts. His mere existence makes our foes froth and go all tourette. When he builds the Titanic he ought build a fuck off big jetty so he can nose it up to the beach at Coolum so close that you can make the green on the 4th from the foredeck.
Googled the Blood Knot and found that’s what I use for hooks with eyes, and for attaching rings and lures. Google also tells me that I’m using a Snell Knot for flatted hooks.
But that said, I’ve never thought that his behaviour was misogynistic in particular.
Rudd reduced an RAAF flight attendant to tears over a chicken dinner and became the first and only Australian prime minister written up in a flight captain’s log for misbehaviour, Steve, you certifiable fraud.
There were always hints that Kevin Rudd might have had a bit of a problem when it came to dealing with women. When it emerged he blew his top at a RAAF hostie because he didn’t like the meal choice on his VIP jet people wondered if he would have acted that way if served the offending sandwich by a man.
Now in the torrent of revelations about what Kevin ‘07 was actually like to work with, it’s women Ministers who have been the most scathing (apart from Wayne Swan, who went totally off his ‘nana about Rudd). It’s also impossible to ignore the fact not a single female front-bencher has come out on his side.
In fact, the only two women publicly cheering on the Rudd spill are his wife and daughter.
ISLAMISTS DRAG DEAD BODY OF US AMBASSADOR IN THE STREETS.
The Arab Spring has been a magnificent success. We are now in no doubt whatsoever that Islam s death cult that must be extinguished with extreme prejudice.
He reduced male Air Force personnel to tears as well Steve?
Is that how misogyny is judged?
I am reluctant to defend Rudd against anything, but going to a strip club, getting pissed and trying to touch a stripper is not prima facie evidence of misogyny in my books, especially if (as was probably the case) it was the first time Kevin had ever been in such a venue and he didn’t have a clue what was acceptable behaviour.
Making a RAAF female steward cry is also not conclusive – obviously, we don’t know if the same words would have been used if it was a male steward. The crying doesn’t tell us much one way or the other.
As the Punch notes, he has some female defenders, and but quite a few men have also lined up and said he was impossible to work with.
Rudd’s one of those bitter and twisted lezos who hates the attractive straight girls. He’s a bull dyke stuck in Aunt Flo’s body. It’s very confusing for everyone involved.
Now in the torrent of revelations about what Kevin ‘07 was actually like to work with, it’s women Ministers who have been the most scathing (apart from Wayne Swan, who went totally off his ‘nana about Rudd). It’s also impossible to ignore the fact not a single female front-bencher has come out on his side.
In fact, the only two women publicly cheering on the Rudd spill are his wife and daughter.
ISLAMISTS DRAG DEAD BODY OF US AMBASSADOR IN THE STREETS.
Picture.
I wonder if Barack Hussein will apologise to them again.
Just for posterity:
September 11, 2012
U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement
The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.
Well that statement contains a fabulous contradiction already – is that the best the USA can offer for its own people sacrificed today on the altar of appeasement?
Well that statement contains a fabulous contradiction already – is that the best the USA can offer for its own people sacrificed today on the altar of appeasement?
I think the staff were in fear of their lives after the forst was killed.
As it turned out when they tried to escape they including the ambassador were murdered.
Not sure about this one, Lazlo. There are a few articles at The Conversation indicating some genuine scientific dissent about possible inadequacies in the assessment of the quota and the use of a super trawler. I can’t link easily at the moment.
There are a few articles at The Conversation indicating some genuine scientific dissent about possible inadequacies in the assessment of the quota and the use of a super trawler.
They bought the fucking quotas you moron! The ship was to provide efficiencies. Stop quoting far leftwing sources as though they are some sort of voice of authority.
Not sure about this one, Lazlo. There are a few articles at The Conversation indicating some genuine scientific dissent about possible inadequacies in the assessment of the quota and the use of a super trawler. I can’t link easily at the moment.
Someone made a minor short film bagging Muslims, who deserve to be bagged mercilessly for their mad, mad war on everyone who is “not one of us”.
Mobs of Muslims, not Presbyrerians or bikies or Manchester United fans, stormed two US Embassies in the Middle East. They killed Americans because they were offended by someone in a far off place calling them names.
What more do we need to know before offering criticism?
What more do we need to know before offering criticism?
My point was the statement (in itself clearly wrong-headed) may have been made to save embassy staff.
A statement from a hostage saying his captors deserve fairer treatment doesn’t generally mean that the hostage should be criticised for being an appeaser.
It may be that the embassy in Cairo held no fears for the imminent safety of its staff but we don’t know yet.
James, Obama has personally apologised for free speech.
While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.
In fact, the right to denigrate the beliefs of others is enshrined in the US Constitution and is non-negotiable. Obama ought to know – denigrating people’s religious beliefs is one of his signature talents.
BTW It is entirely possible that the ‘crusade’ against the trawler was orchestrated by Greenpeace/GetUp hired botnets.
This is easy to do. Recent cyber campaigns such as anonymous have done so. The majority of the world’s spam is botnet generated. Botnets are responsible for most cybercrime and click fraud.
Botnets can be rented for as little as $10 per hour. It would have been trivial for Greepeace/GetUp to utilise a botnet to befuddle idiot government ministers and MP’s.
CNSNews.com – On the day after the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three other Americans were killed in Benghazi, the White House on Wednesday morning released a schedule showing that President Obama would continue with his planned campaign trip to Las Vegas.
Before he leaves, the schedule indicated, Obama will “deliver a statement” in the White House Rose Garden at 10:35 a.m., the White House said.
Obama: “U.S. rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.” Your own party booed my God last week!— Lisa Hunter (@LisaRHunter) September 12, 2012
Fairfax escalates 1977 punchgate, enlisting Michelle Grattan to run the latest story:
A SYDNEY barrister, David Patch, has corroborated a woman’s claim that Tony Abbott behaved in an intimidatory fashion when she beat him in a vote for Sydney University Student Representative Council president in 1977.
Mr Abbott has denied the account from Barbara Ramjan – published in David Marr’s Quarterly Essay, ”Political Animal: The Making of Tony Abbott” – that he came within an inch of her nose and punched the wall on either side of her head.
But Mr Patch, who won the SRC presidency in 1975, said he had been Ms Ramjan’s campaign manager in 1977, and she had told him about the Abbott incident immediately after it happened.
He writes in today’s Age: ”I did not see the incident, but I was nearby. The count had just finished. Barbara found me. She is a small woman, and Tony Abbott was (and is) a strong man. She was very shaken, scared and angry. She told me that Tony Abbott had come up to her, put his face in her face, and punched the wall on either side of her head.
”So, I am a witness. Barbara’s immediate complaint to me about what Abbott had just done had the absolute ring of truth about it. I believed Barbara at the time, and still do.”
So the woman’s chief advocate (a former Labor candidate) believes her. She told him about it, but no-one else and made no complaint until now about … what, exactly? The desperate Labor smear gets down in the gutter.
Colin Buxton, the director of the fisheries, aquaculture and coasts centre at the University of Tasmania’s institute for marine and antarctic studies, said that the size of the 142-metre Dutch-owned trawler did not mean that it posed any greater environmental risk than several smaller vessels.
”It’s just staggering [that] popularism and political expediency is now managing our fisheries,” he said. ”I think it’s incredibly dangerous. It’s really sad that the decision has been handed down in this way.”
Professor Buxton said the 18,000-tonne fish quota given to Seafish Tasmania was sustainable according to solid science.
Botnets can be rented for as little as $10 per hour. It would have been trivial for Greepeace/GetUp to utilise a botnet to befuddle idiot government ministers and MP’s.
Or to give them the excuse of “widespread public support”?
The murder of the US ambassador to Libya was probably a planned attack by Al Qaeda:
Mathieu Guidere, a professor of Islamic studies at the University of Toulouse in France and an expert on Islamist radicals, said information from militant Web sites suggested that Libyan extremists seized on the film to rally people around an attack on the consulate. He said the attack appeared to be motivated by a recent call by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda leader, to avenge the killing of Hassan Mohammed Qaed, better known as Abu Yahya al-Libi, a Libyan-born cleric who was a key aide to Osama bin Laden.
Al-Zawahiri’s call for revenge for al-Libi’s death was made on Monday, less than 24 hours before the Benghazi murders.
David Patch ran as the Liar’s party candidate in Wentworth when Turnbull won the seat so, like, totally impartial. Funny how Grattan failed to mention that.
Lazlo’s a scientist? Funny, he disagrees violently with a huge slab of his cohort when it comes to climate science (if I recall correctly), yet when I indicate that maybe the dissenters in the fisheries matter have a point, I’m not sure yet, I’m being outrageously anti science?
What I can say is the stakes in the trawler matter are small; I am not even sure of the exact fate of the fish. The stakes in AGW are huge. Making the wrong call on one is nothing like making the wrong call on the other.
”So, I am a witness. Barbara’s immediate complaint to me about what Abbott had just done had the absolute ring of truth about it. I believed Barbara at the time, and still do.”
What utter bullshit especially from a Lawyer. It’s heresay.
“But Mr Patch, who won the SRC presidency in 1975, said he had been Ms Ramjan’s campaign manager in 1977, and she had told him about the Abbott incident immediately after it happened.”
He writes in today’s Age: ”I did not see the incident, but I was nearby “.
Where are the eye witnesses to the punches?, where are the photos of the holes in the wall?
Your full of it SoB. Your picking sides in a vain attempt to be on the ‘right’ side of an argument based upon 30 years of data when the climate cycle can be measured in thousands of years. You bought the doom lock stock and barrel because your a stooge.
The trawler cancellation after years of setting it up, is probably a trade off for the Greens supporting off shore processing. The ALP governs by “deals” and favours.
“I did not see the incident… So, I am a witness…””
It’s all a lot of rubbish put about by Catholic haters and Tony Abbott haters and Tony Abbott should just sue David Marr and the Age and be done with it.
And Ms Gillard can sue Pickering and Mike Smith if she has a mind to and be done with it.
Ha! Yesterday’s witness who didn’t see anything directly, but was sure that he would have heard about it if something had happened, was CL’s “impeccable” witness who “detroyed” the claim.
Today’s witness, who didn’t see anything directly, is a non witness for CL, even though his point – having heard an early complaint by the victim about it – has relevance.
Bush lawyering is always at its best at this blog.
WHY would anyone bother to invest in this country ever again? First the ill-fated live cattle trade ban by hapless Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig, and now Sustainability Minister Tony Burke knowingly introduces a piece of legislation to ban a trawler that, under existing law, cannot take more than a sustainable catch.
The Abel Tasman could trawl the Southern Ocean for a thousand years and not cause harm to the fish stock. Existing law prevents it from so doing. If it or other vessels have depleted stocks elsewhere, they have done so not because of the size and efficiency of the trawler, but because those places are poorly governed. Australia is not West Africa but, by goodness, it is starting to look like it.
The advice from the Australian Fisheries Management Authority is crystal clear:
No more than 7 per cent of the fish stock may be taken from this fishery.
There is no evidence that larger boats pose a higher risk to the fish stock or the marine ecosystem.
The net on the Abel Tasman is similar in size to nets in the Australian fishing fleet; the vessel is so much larger than other fishing boats only because it has factory and freezer storage on board.
Midwater trawling is one of the most selective types of fishing, with a very low bycatch.
The Abel Tasman would be fitted with a GPS tracking system, carry an AFMA observer and use a seal excluder device to prevent capture of seals and dolphins; and strict catch limits could be set.
It is clear this is a cleaner, greener, more efficient and easier to manage system of fishing.
Just think how fishing COOPs across the country have been blocked from improving their processes and cutting costs. Their comptitors who will legally able to fish outside our territorial waters will now have a technological advantage over Aus based fishermen.
And same for all of you who mock young earthers, or devout Scientologists, or believers in miracles — and all who say that, for instance, racist or sexist religious beliefs are contemptible — and maybe even all those who, even politely, contend that rival religions’ views are wrong and will deny salvation to the holders of those views:
The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.
So says the Secretary of State, in quite categorical terms.
The difference between Sheridans witness is that they are no fan of Abbott. Grattans witness is a Labor lawyer and former Labor party candidate.
When we’re talking about hearsay, credibility + believability is the deciding factor.
Then there’s the small matter of the primary witness having talked about Abbott a lot in the 35 years since it happened, but only remembering this dramatic detail now, right when Labor need to construct a dialogue about Abbott being a woman-hating thug.
Keep talking, Labor and sycophants. Smearing the opposition did Anna Bligh *so well*.
60/40 2PP in the Federal election is achievable. But only if Labor continue their good work.
Then there’s the small matter of the primary witness having talked about Abbott a lot in the 35 years since it happened, but only remembering this dramatic detail now, right when Labor need to construct a dialogue about Abbott being a woman-hating thug.
Jennifer Rubin has an excellent article with some important analysis on the attack in Libya:
The reaction of the Obama administration, for those who lived through it, is eerily reminiscent of the Clinton administration when a series of bombings (the 1993 World Trade Center, the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the U.S.S. Cole) were treated as discrete events without a significant U.S. response. This, the 9-11 Commission and others concluded, was a dangerous misstep and set the ground work for the 9-11 attacks. The repetition of this ominous pattern on the 11th anniversary of 9-11 shouldn’t be overlooked. It is the quickness to excuse Islamic violence and the lack of a forceful response that is deeply troubling to critics of the administration. We may be in the middle of a campaign, but the national security concerns are real and valid.
…federal sources told CNN that an Al-Qaeda-affiliated group responsible for a previous armed assault on the consulate may have taken advantage of the demonstration to attack on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks of 2001…
The inflammatory video, called “Innocence of Muslims,” depicts the Prophet as a fraud obsessed with sex and violence. When angry protestors marched on the embassy in Cairo, they chanted “We are all Osama” in honor of the slain terror leader.
…The future. Expect more violence. The Libyan murderers are now empowered, and, like the infamous Iranian hostage-takers, feel their government either supports them or can’t stop them. The crowd in Egypt knew what it was doing when it chanted Obama’s name juxtaposed to Osama’s.
Obama’s effort to appease Islam is an utter failure, as we see in various polls that show no change in anti-American attitudes in the Middle East
The murder of the US ambassador to Libya was probably a planned attack by Al Qaeda
Some of the “protesters” seem to have been very specifically armed for an assault. It also disturbingly coincided with a suicide attack on the new Somali president by (al-Qaeda aligned) al-Shabab. It would be nice to think it is just coincidental rather than part of a pattern of networked events.
I write not to land a blow on (or near) Abbott, but to ensure that the debate about the character and suitability of a potential future prime minister is one which is fully and accurately informed.
I wonder where David Patch stands on the character and suitability of a former bent union lawyer.
These vile genocidal morons are now unrepentantly fucking with the food supply and I’m not just referring to fishing.
Yep.
Any policy of the Greens and their fellow travellers has, as its end result, the death of humans.
It’s not just the failure to eat a load of fish, it means the competition for alternate foods moves us against the poorest people on the planet.
I wonder where David Patch stands on the character and suitability of a former bent union lawyer.
I thought he was a Labor lawyer himself. If so, probably too busy creating slush funds and talking miners out of their death benefits funds to stop and assess character. What, with all the hearsay evidence to re-construct, and all that.
Follow on from Gab’s article, more things to ponder:
“Sam Bacile,” has claimed to be an Israeli real estate mogul. But Garcia said Bacile told her he was Egyptian on set. Bacile had white hair and spoke Arabic to a number of “dark-skinned” men who hung around the set…
Was this, in fact, an Islamist false-flag operation?
having problems with “connection error” notices, very very slow loading, recent comments list disappearing, comments not updating, comments RSS not updating, comments disappearing, very very very slow loading?
CL these pictures are very confronting, doubly so because he doesn’t look dead to me. His left arm is up in two pictures, and his head is not flopping over, as I would expect if he really was dead.
I have not seen a dead person but I have handled very many dead animals and these pictures are not representative of a dead body.
Ms Clinton said they were taking him to hospital – maybe that is true – because he was still alive.
Isn’t the problem with the trawler that the science isn’t settled?
I can see you are trying humour, but really should you be laughing at the fact this business venture will go bust due to a knee jerk reaction by a government to flint-hearted lobbiests?
What we should be asking is:
* Why did the government issue a licence?
* Why did they wait until the tenderer for the licence had committed to commercial leases?
Libyan official says ambassador Chris Stevens was being driven to a safer location when his car was hit by a rocket.
A picture taken by an AFP photographer shows what witnesses say is the injured ambassador being aided by Libyans inside the premises of the consulate.
The picture shows an injured man wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants resembling Mr Stevens being carried by several Libyans.
A Libyan doctor who tried to treat the ambassador says he died from smoke inhalation.
Of course if you rely on dodgy websites like the gateway pundit for news, as CL does, then you are quite likely to come up with incorrect conclusions. The point is, it is a photo, without any explanation. Any conclusions you draw from the photo are merely speculation.
The ALP and Greens are hell bent on destroying primary industry.
They have the hide to run candidates in regional areas.
What have they tried to ruin lately?
Murray darling Wheat, northern cattle industry, murray darling sheep, citrus and rice, also tas forestry, WA, VIC and QLD coal, WA iron ore, NSW and SA polymetallic systems, NT and SA uranium, fisheries around the whole nation and in the EEZ – all good export earners, with comparative advantage and some with near absolute advantage. These industries have high inter industry multipliers and low levels of industry protection.
It isn’t just the food supply they are mucking about with.
They’ve literally destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs in the midst of a weak global economy and tightening labour market rules.
The Tasmanian Greens leader says the company behind the super trawler should be apologising for the loss of 45 Tasmanian jobs.
Seafish Tasmania says it will have to sack the staff it hired from the state’s north-west because of the Federal Environment Minister’s move to stop the trawler.
But it’s still the ALP who put a stop to the supertrawler so stupidly so suddenly after all the years of preparation – the Greens did not actually stop it, they protested. Labor has to take responsibility.
You are consistently the stupidest commenter at this blog, pipped only by Monty occasionally.
Good grief. Everyone knows you are a fantasy prone resident in an alternative reality and think you triumph in disputes by mere repetition and self declaration that you’re the winner who has “destroyed” the opponent.
New anti-Abbott source – a loyal Labor foot-soldier – a dogmatic hater:
Although he was an active member of a fundamentalist political movement with a religious base (the DLP and the National Civic Council led by Bob Santamaria), it was his personally offensive behaviour that stood out.
He was always (verbally) attacking gays and feminists and lefties. You certainly knew what he was against – the trouble was that you couldn’t figure out what he favoured.
Note the trick: homos and feminists were aligned with the left. So what he’s saying is that Abbott attacked the left (yawn) – but he breaks down ‘the left’ into saleable, bite-sized constituent grievance groups.
Ergo: at university David Patch was well known for hating Catholics, women and righties.
Like I said, Steve, thanks for backing down on your claims last night that Rudd is loved by women. Now we await a walk-back on your claim that a hot summer will turn the Australian people against Abbott.
David Patch is a former Labor Candidate for Wentworth. “I did not see the incident… So, I am a witness…” Ha.
Whereas Labor figure Jeremy Jones was a member of the Labor Party and led a Labor ticket in student elections. He was elected to the SRC on the same night Abbott lost that election to Ramjan..He is certain he would have heard of any such alleged incident by Abbott and he is also certain he never heard any such allegation made. In other words, he is certain it didn’t happen.(cited by Greg Sheridan). Abbott flatly denies it ever happened. There were no contemporaneous accounts at the time, despite letters to Honi Soit decrying the actions of other Young Liberals. In short, Ramjan’s accusations are totally unsubstantiated and a baseless smear.
Any reputable journalist should be ashamed to be peddling these allegations- especially when a certain “young and naive™” former lawyer has real questions to answer regarding the misappropriation of hundreds of thousands of dollars from her then client, the AWU, and why she didn’t notify them as soon as she became aware of the fraud.
This comment keeps getting knocked back at Fairfax. What am I doing wrong?
Re this blog: I’m sure Jacques is a nice guy and don’t take this personally or anythink, but I find myself pretty amused by the way the most aggressively free enterprise, private-business-always-does-better-than-government blog has a pretty unenviable record for unreliability (the great server crash of whatever year; this current transfer which could hardly have gone less smoothly – no offence again, it’s no great skin off my nose that anti Federal Labor commentary is having a harder time getting published!)
But I have concluded that the only way to improve the performance of Catallaxy is to nationalise it. Do I have a seconder for the motion?
Gab, I should add that I assume that Jacques himself has no responsibility for the current problems. So I’m not having a go at him; just find it amusing in a bit of a “meta” way.
“There are two kinds of people in this world,” Eastwood told the mag a month before his “empty chair” speech at the Republican National Convention. “‘I’ people and ‘we’ people. I’ve always tried to be a ‘we’ person. I think that our president is an ‘I’ person. He speaks as though he killed Osama bin Laden himself.”
So, the actually existing Catallaxy is not as good as some really cool fantasy Catallaxy that doesn’t exist but would work better and would presumably be cheaper. That’s just great, Steve.
Cold-Hands, I don’t know why you bother.
I decided a couple of years ago that if I had to listen to inanity, it may as well be inanity that isn’t going to make me upset and angry.
I just listen to 1116 SEN now. All sport. No sanctimonious Mitchell & AW, no more 774 ALPBC for this little black duck.
Some youngster in the office switched the wireless to JJJ the other day and I had to listen the afternoon current affairs show they have – The Hatchet Job I think it is called.
My God, it wouldn’t have past muster in North Korea it was so off the planet. Absolutely incredible. Proof positive that the voting age should be raised to 25 and only to those who have been in private employment for 3+ years.
The blog would have a more manageable burden without the over-indulged troll herd, who add so much to the comments numbers but nothing to enlightenment.
I will have to change my approach then to “why is this blog run on such an appalling socialist model when it is always promoting the benefits of free enterprise. Hypocrites!”
The brutal murder of a US ambassador, and the immediate apology by President Obama to the Muslims is a perfect example of how dangerous Leftism is in a position of authority, an ideology based on the most fantastic delusions, but which invariably brings ruin, carnage and death.
“Rudd should did pounce on the opportunity afforded by Julia Gillard’s bereavement.”
I read that CL and Kevin Rudd still won’t say Ms Gillard’s name, only say “prime minister”. He’s allowed to be bitter isn’t he? it’s only human.
I don’t think anyone seriously thinks he can make a comeback when we’re in an election year now and Ms Gillard is wedded to her job.
Michelle Grattan on Radio National this morning (yay, ABC) thought that Kevin looking opportunistic while Julia is on bereavement leave may well increase antipathy towards him from those wavering MPs. Let’s hope so.
The great tragedy of the hung parliament was the inability to send Rudd off into some new job, far away.
As we know Labor “men” love nothing more than hiding behind womens skirts in moments of crisis. Gillard being a female offers her a mountain of protection of criticism real or perceived from Abbott and free kicks left right and centre for Labor and the luvvie media about “sexism” etc, etc.
If she was replaced by Rudd it’d be 2009 all over again with “Terminator” Abbott unshackled and once again free to reduce Rudd to a whimpering, nervous wreck.
Ergo this weeks hysteric’s and full frontal “Abbott is a mysogynist” smear campaign is a final attempt to lock in the “sexist thug” “idea” once and for all outside of the bounds of Gillard – before she’s replaced.
That way they can continue on with the “Abbott the sexist thug” meme even once Gillard is gone and Rudd is back in as leader.
As an added bonus they’re conjuring up a “Abbott is an aggressive bully” narrative. Witness Swans comments yesterday about “aggressive questions” and the subtext of much of the “commentary” this week about Abbott’s “aggression”.
So once Rudd is back in they’ll push the meme that Big Bad Bully Abbott is bullying the poor little nerdy Rudd using his theoretical teenage student political years as “proof” that he’s a bully and a thug.
The Labor shill accusing Abbott of … something … in 1977 is doing a masterful impression of a congenital leftist liar. Parse this:
I know what happened (I didn’t see it; the allegation is hearsay). I write not to land a blow on (or near) Abbott (I’m trying to do as much damage to Abbott as possible), but to ensure that the debate about the character and suitability of a potential future prime minister is one which is fully and accurately informed (John McTernan rang me and asked if I would help take the heat off Gillard).
You wouldn’t trust David Patch to walk your kids to school. Puppet master McTernan is ignoring the ceasefire caused by the death of Gillard’s father to heap as much shit on Abbott as he can while Abbott can’t fire back.
Actually this site represents the conservative point of view perfectly. It is funded from the proceeds of productive enterprise, it allows any and all to participate.
Compare to the Drum, which is government funded so everyone pays, and probably runs on gold plated hardware by chumps that would get 6 months redundancy packages if economic conditions ever forced them to become unemployed.
I bet this site runs for less money than the Drum stationery invoices.
Abbott’s change from “I don’t remember” to “it never happened” is part of the problem here. It has encouraged more people to come out of the wood work.
The man, a student at the time, said he was outside the Student Representative Council’s offices photocopying when “Yabbott’s famous flying squad of goons crashed down the stairs, threw me against the wall, kicked in the doors of the SRC, and started creating havoc”.
It has encouraged more people bullshit artists to come out of the wood work.
I think a good defamation case might cause the rodents to scurry back up drainpipes, lest they get put on the stand under threat of perjury.
Time for Abbott to bring this to a head, otherwise they are going to be turning up in the hundreds, all eager for their 10 seconds in the Fairfax sun.
I think Abbott should try the ‘I was young and naive at university’ line just to see who picks up on it.
In two weeks all this will be long-forgotten, except when Labor are in trouble and need to paint Abbott as a woman-hating unelectable bully again.
Quite how they reconcile this with the former PM being a proven psycopathic control freak, I’m not sure.
But I’m happy for them to keep going. They’ll probably drop Abbotts approval rating by 2 or 3 points, but with zero change to the 2PP. That’s because people would rather vote for an Abbott-led government than reward the Labor party for dishonesty and corruption.
If anyone wants to start digging around in the past of young student bullies, I think there is a rich seam of material around a certain Mr Swan, going from what I have been told.
But I’m just waiting until someone clicks on that Ms Gillard used to run a communist front at university. I’ll take a goon squad over communist wymyn any day of the week.
“I saw Abbott throw a punch at Barbara Ramjan,but didn’t see it land … when next I saw her, she was in an extremely shocked condition, leaning against the wall … I thought he had actually struck her, but I can see that was simply my assumption and rationalisation.
“If Ms Ramjan says the punches were aimed next to her head, I can’t actually in fact contradict that … simply I saw Abbott swinging punches, and certainly indulging in serious argy-bargy. I saw him swing a punch, I saw her in great distress.”
Quite how they reconcile this with the former PM being a proven psycopathic control freak, I’m not sure.
This is the new politics. Its not about selling the benefits of your party and politics, its about tearing down the your opponents. This is an unfortunate inevitability of the allegations against Gillard. Politicians will now be scrutinised over allegations of events which happened 20 or even 40 years ago.
But people change – even if they are true, the Abbott of today is not the Abbott of 30 years ago. Just read some of the stuff he wrote when at university.
I think a good defamation case might cause the rodents to scurry back up drainpipes, lest they get put on the stand under threat of perjury.
I don’t think we’ll see a defamation case. Unlike Gillard where he can target people who aren’t bankrupt, he doesn’t want to sue for similar reasons. Doing so would bring it even more to public attention and keep it there. And its very likely that it wouldn’t be settled before the next election so will distract from his campaign. Not to mention that bringing such a case could lead to even more publicity of the Abbott of 30 years ago who looks very out of date compared to the Abbott of today.
Not to mention that bringing such a case could lead to even more publicity of the Abbott of 30 years ago who looks very out of date compared to the Abbott of today.
It all shows how pathetic university student politics was / is(?) too.
University students should just spend spare time sitting in the sun, reading books, contemplating their lack of a sex life, and drinking very cheap alcohol on weekends.
a.Albanese and McTernan person must have been very busy locating and contacting people from Tony Abbott’s student days from 30 years ago. That’s no easy task. Some of them would be overseas or dead even and they’re busy ringing up the relatives to find them.
Abbott needs to take a page out of the socialists book and learn to deny things immediately, denounce the accuser then later spin them if necessary.
His sticking to some jesuit high minded idea that he can expect the truth to come out on its own and the rabbit in the headlights state of surprise he exhibits when his enemies stoop to these levels is what kills him in these situations. The “it would be very out of character” remark was obviously made light heartedly to someone who he thought would be decent enough to know that it was nothing but a smear.
His response should have been an immediate and vigourous denial, denouncement of the questioner as a muckraker and denouncement of the accuser as an ALP appointed luvvie who has been shopping different versions of this story around for decades.
He now needs to come out and demand to know why the “story” was actually “broken” on Twitter three weeks ago by a celebrity criminal lawyer who had “interviewed” Ramjan twice.
I saw Abbott throw a punch at Barbara Ramjan,but didn’t see it land … when next I saw her, she was in an extremely shocked condition, leaning against the wall … I thought he had actually struck her, but I can see that was simply my assumption and rationalisation.
So he “saw Abbot throw a punch” at a woman…and he just kept on walking?
He didn’t even go over let alone do anything about it?
Volunteer surf lifesaver
volunteer bushfire fighter
saved two kids from house fire but didn’t stick around to get thanked
spends holidays building libraries and volunteering to help outback Aborigines
keeps fit and healthy
-v-
lawyer who admitted to setting up a fake union slush fund for her boyfriend and who admits she not sure if she benefited from the proceeds.
had affairs with at least two married men who left their wives and kids.
is a known liar.
Abbott’s famous flying squad of goons crashed down the stairs, threw me against the wall, kicked in the doors of the SRC, and started creating havoc
This country is a fucking joke. We have a larcenous whore as PM and instead the focus is on some made up crap that a bunch of militant homos dreamt up?
I hope North Korea bomb the fuck out of us. We deserve it.
This is an unfortunate inevitability of the allegations against Gillard. Politicians will now be scrutinised over allegations of events which happened 20 or even 40 years ago.
Nicely spun Chris.
This campaign to equalise fraud in the Trade Union movement based upon document trails to unsubstantiated statements is really gathering currency in the mind of the Left.
I saw Abbott throw a punch at Barbara Ramjan,but didn’t see it land
Twostix, I can’t for one minute accept that any man would stand by idly while another man threw a punch at a woman, he thought had actually struck her?? He’s bullshitting or a weak cnut, or both.
Can someone please explain to me how Ramjan says there were no witnesses to the incident, then out of nowhere witnesses appear who actually saw a punch thrown?
FFS these bastards lie so much they forget where one lie finishes and the next one starts.
Oh what a twisted web we weave, hey? Whatever it takes, whatever it takes.
This just doesn’t stack up.
If he saw a punch thrown, why didn’t he go and defend the woman?
He says that he thought a punch connected with the woman but didn’t see it. Again if he was so outraged at the behaviour why didn’t he involve himself in her defence?
Serious argy-bargy could have been serious arm waving or finger pointing depending on the angle and distance. If he was that far away not to be able to distinguish between a punch to the face with the subsequent body movements associated with pain and two allegedly targeted punches to a nearby wall, then I suggest this person is not a credible witness.
Tony Abbott also played a notable role a decade later leading an offensive against the far left domination of the SRC and Australian Union of Students, as well as against radical academics who were promoting courses in Marxist pseudo-economics. As Barcan notes, Abbott’s struggle (in which he was joined by others, including Greg Sheridan, now foreign editor of the The Australian) “offers a vivid glimpse of the gritty side of student politics” (p.133) that ended up in the Supreme Court.
By this time the New Left was thrashing about, as its influence waned and it sank into degeneracy. Winning the presidency of the SRC in 1978, Abbott and his supporters “confronted an Honi Soit obsessed with Far Left politics and with sex” (p.135), and Barcan provides some very telling examples of just how decadent and self-indulgent campus politics had become, with the New Left regime making a fetish out of the alleged benefits of male self-abuse, for example. Abbott was then able to expose how SRC funds (derived from students’ contributions) were misused to promote “ultra militant feminism, homosexual proselytism, and environmentalism gone to crazy lengths” (p.137).
Barcan provides several accounts of why the New Left declined in this fashion (pp.153-5; 207-9). The end of conscription and the end of the Vietnam War removed the primary aggravating factor; the economic recession of the mid-1970s shifted attention from internationalist idealism to domestic anxieties; the unity of the left collapsed under the impact of feminism; neo-Marxism was discredited and radical theory fragmented with the rise of identity politics; and the elite cadre of activists moved on, leaving an inferior next generation to carry on.
Nevertheless, the leftist system of patronage, preferment, nepotism and corruption was firmly entrenched, along with nihilist ideologies that justified doing “whatever it takes” to seize and hang onto power, however destructive the effect, especially in education.
At the end of his book Barcan assesses the legacy of the New Left. It amounts to little. For all its sound and fury, and despite the energy and idealism that it misdirected and consumed, it is hard not to see it all as a legacy of ashes.
“Doing so would bring it even more to public attention and keep it there.”
Tony Abbott has no reason to fear public attention, Chris. It’s Ms Gillard, for Gab’s reasons outlined above, who greatly fears public attention, not the least of which is her affairs with married men.
That’s the one they’re trying desperately not to be made known.
YOu can tell by the way Steve and Steve and Monty here get uptight about it whenever its mentioned.
Abbott was then able to expose how SRC funds (derived from students’ contributions) were misused to promote “ultra militant feminism, homosexual proselytism, and environmentalism gone to crazy lengths”
Abbott should wait a few more days, let them make some more contradictitory bullshit statements in public then start suing.
Let a solicitor ask todays “witness” on the stand about his story of seeing a 19 year old male “throwing punches” at a girl in public and how he just wandered off not even bothering to stop.
And if we’re talking about stat decs, let’s talk about the stat dec from a union leader that’s floating around that outlines massive corruption in the ALP and specifically states he was offered a bribe of a seat in parliament.
Given that the degree of impairment is the same at 0.05 BAC as 0.02 BAC, this, if passed, is just another revenue grab, criminalising the innocent yet again. Not even the Baillieu Government would be stupid enough to agree to this.
There is no way this would ever make it to court. These rats would scurry away the moment they got a taste of having to put up in court. There is no way they would ever let it get that far, not when real money is on the line.
Just go for Marr and watch the others melt into the shadows.
Someone should ask this latest eye-witness to the unwitnessed incident to draw a rough map of where he was standing and where Abbott and the supposed victim was. I bet he can’t even name which building it was supposed to have happened in.
And if we’re talking about stat decs, let’s talk about the stat dec from a union leader that’s floating around that outlines massive corruption in the ALP and specifically states he was offered a bribe of a seat in parliament.
We have a larcenous whore as PM and instead the focus is on some made up crap that a bunch of militant homos dreamt up?
That’s it.
His sticking to some jesuit high minded idea that he can expect the truth to come out on its own and the rabbit in the headlights state of surprise he exhibits when his enemies stoop to these levels is what kills him in these situations.
The polls have always suggested otherwise. The more crazy they get, the better Abbott does.
The most disgusting thing about this is that the various old Labor tarts lining up to sledge Abbott for ‘sexism’ have all backed Craig Thompson.
Pickering’s take on David Marr features a photo of him and Michael Kirby, and says:
Marr (partner of Justice Michael Kirby and friend of Leftist lawyer, Chris Murphy) brought discredit to The National Times as editor in the early 80s, a newspaper I worked for.
??????????
In what sense is he Kirby’s “partner”? Kirby’s been living with the same bloke since 1969, according to Wiki.
Is Pickering the most untrustworthy blogger in the land? Even worse than CL.
The polls have always suggested otherwise. The more crazy they get, the better Abbott does.
Yes I suppose you’re right. It require nerves of steel to endure the constant slander and abuse and not lash out, but of course that’s exactly what they’re trying to get him to do.
Perhaps that’s the plan: goading him into to launching a defamation action. Then when he’s up to his ears in it they’ll call an election.
I thought it was hyperbole previously, but we almost do need a Royal Commission into the unions and ALP.
It is interesting to see how much of the information on that stat dec has come to light in the last year.
You can go through it and compare with documents unearthed by Ian Cambridge and Bob Smith at Michael Smith’s page.
Very compelling, for anyone except those who choose to ignore the fact the money that was stolen from union members and from a fund set up by a state government for training workers.
If he saw a punch thrown, why didn’t he go and defend the woman?
Because he is an emasculated lefty male operating the photocopier – his balls had been lost long ago to the militant lesso wimmin who ran the Student Union and the commo rag. (Or was there two of them? Who gives a rats, I know who I’d rather have in my corner.)
He was probably imagining what he would have liked to have done/seen himself.
Ms Jackson told Sky News’ Paul Murray Live show last night that she had been approached by HSU boss Michael Williamson last year and offered a position in parliament in return for her silence over claims of corruption within the union.
“Asking me that, you know, he could organise it for me – and ‘don’t worry darl, I’ll make up the salary difference if you want to go’.
Apart from being a misogynist, isn’t Williamson also engaging in offering a secret commission in addition to the “sale” of a Parliamentary seat?
Vic Roads once published a chart (which I get when I asked for material for a school assignment) that showed the accident risk went up exponentially based on BAC. 0.05% was rated 2 (double the chance of an accident) and I cannot remember the 0.08% figure, but it did kick up. A quick check failed to find the chart but Googling BAC impairment gives results that seem to agree.
“Perhaps that’s the plan: goading him into to launching a defamation action”
He should sue for the distress caused to his wife and kids by the lies of David Marr calling their husband and father a woman beater.
The general public would be quite sympathetic with the family angle.
0.02 would essentially mean no drinking at all if you’re going to drive. I doubt it would be politically possible at the moment.
0.02 would catch many people the morning after a heavy night on the tiles. The whole approach is bulls*t. Drink drivers causing fatalities and accidents are way over the current limits; dropping the legal limit will not do anything to save lives, just criminalise formerly law abiding citizens in a bid to raise revenue and appease the new wowsers.
Vic Roads once published a chart (which I get when I asked for material for a school assignment) that showed the accident risk went up exponentially based on BAC. 0.05% was rated 2 (double the chance of an accident) and I cannot remember the 0.08% figure, but it did kick up. A quick check failed to find the chart but Googling BAC impairment gives results that seem to agree.
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
The risk may double but it might also still be statistically insignificant.
In what sense is he Kirby’s “partner”? Kirby’s been living with the same bloke since 1969, according to Wiki.
Is Pickering the most untrustworthy blogger in the land? Even worse than CL.
Pickering corrected his post shortly after it appeared CORRECTION: David Marr is shown here with his friend Justice Kirby. David Marr’s current partner is Jay Riviere. Unlike like some, Pickering is prepared to correct errors in his posts. His correction was immediate and was prominent on his facebook page immediately after the post containing the error. Mentioning this though obviously doesn’t fit your agenda.
Steve argued two years ago that Abbott could be finished owing to a sex scandal that Steve knew about.
Good call, Steve.
Bit like your effort last night re your hero Kevin Rudd’s treatment of women.
What Steve said Punch said:
As the Punch notes, he has some female defenders…
What Punch said:
Now in the torrent of revelations about what Kevin ‘07 was actually like to work with, it’s women Ministers who have been the most scathing (apart from Wayne Swan, who went totally off his ‘nana about Rudd). It’s also impossible to ignore the fact not a single female front-bencher has come out on his side.
In fact, the only two women publicly cheering on the Rudd spill are his wife and daughter.
Good blogging, Steve. No wonder your site has now overtaken AnalWartsDicussionForum.com for hits.
This is the new politics. Its not about selling the benefits of your party and politics, its about tearing down the your opponents. This is an unfortunate inevitability of the allegations against Gillard. Politicians will now be scrutinised over allegations of events which happened 20 or even 40 years ago.
It’s a damn shame. One of many elements of the American polity which we should reject here.
The risk may double but it might also still be statistically insignificant.
True, although I think also that alcohol seems to continue to have a high representation in the accident stats – way above the proportion of drunk drivers on the road at any one time.
Yes I suppose you’re right. It require nerves of steel to endure the constant slander and abuse and not lash out, but of course that’s exactly what they’re trying to get him to do.
Perhaps that’s the plan: goading him into to launching a defamation action. Then when he’s up to his ears in it they’ll call an election.
Well, this is what Pickering was hoping to do with Gillard, so you’re probably right.
The thing we should take out of all of this is that Abbott has clearly moved on from student politics, while his opponents are clearly still there, and think that effective government is roughly the same as raiding the compulsory student union fees to put up wymmyns posters and go around trying to beat up people.
Why doesn’t he correct within the article itself, so that people see what stupid claims he has made?
Strong competition for stupidest comment of the day. But I still rank it below the question posed at 7:02 am in relation to fish caught be a trawler:
what the fate of fish caught by a trawler is.
Of course it’s completely unreasonable to add a correction to the end of an article. It’s only been done that way for, oh I don’t know, forever?
So asking what the fate of fish caught by a trawler is, and then asking why a correction is added to the end of an article. We’re dealing with a razor sharp mind, folks.
CL, Punch noted “Backbencher Janelle Saffin” as a Rudd supporter, as well as his wife and daughter. That’s “some female supporters” no?
Of course, someone the thread noted Maxine’s support of him as well.
That’s more “some” from within the MP’s.
And if you look at this February article in the Australian, by their count, there were quite a few women supporting Kevin.
My point is certainly true that he has some support from women within the party.
NSW: John Faulkner, Justine Elliott, Robert McClelland, Chris Bowen, Ursula Stephens, Mike Kelly, Janelle Saffin, Daryl Melham, Doug Cameron, Ed Husic, Peter Garrett, Jill Hall, Stephen Jones, Sharon Grierson
NT: Trish Crossin
QUEENSLAND: Kevin Rudd, Claire Moore, Mark Furner
SA: Tony Zappia, Steve Georganas
TASMANIA: Carol Brown, Anne Urquhart, Nick Sherry
VICTORIA: Anthony Byrne, Laura Smyth, Maria Vamvakinou, Kim Carr, Martin Ferguson, Alan Griffin, Harry Jenkins, Anna Burke, Gavin Marshall, Darren Cheeseman
Why doesn’t he correct within the article itself, so that people see what stupid claims he has made?
You again demonstrate that you’re a worthless lying piece of shit. Pickering amended that post on Monday.
Do you own your house? I’d be very careful about what you put on your blog if you think you can lie about and misrepresent people in public life with impunity.
Just because the world’s human trash like you can now publish your thoughts on the internet for free doesn’t exempt you from libel laws.
Monst:
What’s your “position” on the Slapper assisting embezzlement and Craig Thompson siphoning off union loot?
Gillard has answered all questions from journos on the issue, and it is now dead, as evidenced by the complete failure by the usual suspects to exhume it in the weeks since.
As for Thompson, I remain unconvinced that Jackson is not the villain of the piece. She’s the one with the finger on the till, a massive wage and the bovver boy over her shoulder.
Under socialist dickhead, Barry O’Farrell, your swimming pool now needs a number plate:
ALL NSW backyard pools will have to be registered under a safety crackdown by the state government.
Under the proposed legislation, a statewide online registry will be established and the 340,000 pools in NSW will have to be registered within 12 months, local government minister Don Page said.
Property owners who don’t register their pools within that time will face fines of $2200.
Safety compliance inspections will also be conducted by councils and private operators at an expected cost of $150.
As for Thompson, I remain unconvinced that Jackson is not the villain of the piece. She’s the one with the finger on the till, a massive wage and the bovver boy over her shoulder.
Gillard has answered all questions from journos on the issue, and it is now dead, as evidenced by the complete failure by the usual suspects to exhume it in the weeks since.
As for Thompson, I remain unconvinced that Jackson is not the villain of the piece. She’s the one with the finger on the till, a massive wage and the bovver boy over her shoulder.
Monst:
I will ask again:-
What’s your “position” on the Slapper assisting embezzlement and Craig Thompson siphoning off union loot?
A top Tasmanian fisheries scientist has slammed the government’s 11th-hour move to stop the controversial Abel Tasman super trawler as unscientific and driven by political expediency.
Colin Buxton, the director of the fisheries, aquaculture and coasts centre at the University of Tasmania’s institute for marine and antarctic studies in Hobart, said that the size of the 142-metre Dutch-owned trawler did not mean that it posed any greater environmental risk than several smaller vessels.
”It’s just staggering [that] popularism and political expediency is now managing our fisheries,” he said. ”I think it’s incredibly dangerous. It’s really sad that the decision has been handed down in this way.”
Professor Buxton said the 18,000-tonne fish quota given to Seafish Tasmania was sustainable according to solid science.
He said that an ecosystem model developed by the CSIRO – regarded as the ”best ecological model available” – had been used to calculate the total population of fish and any potential impact on the food chain.
Professor Buxton, who stressed he had no connection with any company, industry body or regulator, said that ”localised depletion” – the danger of emptying out a part of the ocean if a large ship fished too long in one place – was probably less of a risk with the super trawler.
Even a halfwit like Joe Ludwig could understand the abridged version of the story I have bolded out.
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
Why not ban pools, minty?
Then no one will drown in even “well designed pools”, even though I’ve rarely seen people install labrythine pools out of some James Bond movie designed to drown their own children or guests.
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
You certainly wouldn’t have a prob, Monst. That’s if the law of water displacement and density is correct. There wouldn’t be any water in the fucking pool.
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
You find it impossible to argue in good faith.
Anyone who did so would be guilty of murder or manslaughter.
You champion every cause that intrudes into our lives or taxes us more.
You are a sick individual, much like a liar who steals valour off war veterans, you will never have children.
Please stop using other people’s kids as a spiritual spittoon you can self abuse yourself with.
You remind me of a guilty woman I was a juror on the trial of, who tried to use her kid’s apsergers and club foot as an excuse for her guilt in very serious crimes.
Then no one will drown in even “well designed pools”, even though I’ve rarely seen people install labrythine pools out of some James Bond movie designed to drown their own children or guests.
Pools without toddler-proof fences should be banned for families with toddlers. It’s a basic safety issue, should be above politics.
You’re happy with six toddlers dying and 36 getting brain injuries every year in NSW, Dot? You don’t want to do anything about it?
You again demonstrate that you’re a worthless lying piece of shit….
Just because the world’s human trash like you can now publish your thoughts on the internet for free doesn’t exempt you from libel laws.
Tom, Tom, Tom. You’re probably a very likeable fellow underneath that really stupid, aggressive and obnoxious exterior. Are you ever in Pinkenba. Come have a drink with CL and me?
So you are saying M0nty that people here want Toddlers to drown?
Token, I get sick of libertarians railing against common sense safety precautions like pool fences or seat belts as if they are an affront to liberty. Bullshit. Not all regulation is bad. Some of it is very good, in fact. Which is why some regulation has major bipartisan support. Meanwhile, extremists like the LDP go crazy about getting a handful of local council seats, because that’s all they’re good for electorally.
Anyone who did so would be guilty of murder or manslaughter.
Right Dot, so do you see any parents convicted of murder or manslaughter for allowing their kid to drown by accident? No, no you don’t.
monty wants more law on top of this to placate parents with guilty feelings. Fuck ‘em. They ought to be tried for their negligence.
Note from the bottom of Governmental directives:
Pool owners are reminded that there is no substitute for constant adult supervision of children in and around swimming pools to prevent drownings and other accidents.
In Queensland you have to have a pool safety certificate when you sell. If your pool doesn’t comply, the new owner can still take the house, but has to have the compliance work done within 2 or 3 months.
The NSW system sounds like it will be similar, with the addition of a register (which I guess the Queensland system might have anyway built up over the years while sales happen.)
This is pretty unremarkable. It’s a way of ensuring existing safety laws are complied with.
The horse has already bolted. I don’t see what libertarians have to complain about. The right to not have to open a self closing gate to get to their pools? Oh diddums.
I did wonder, in one of the pics CL linked to it appeared as though his trousers were very low or not there. Someones head is in the way, but you can clearly see a lot mof buttock.
Token, I get sick of libertarians railing against common sense safety precautions like pool fences or seat belts as if they are an affront to liberty. Bullshit. Not all regulation is bad. Some of it is very good, in fact.
They are not commonsense. They encourage moral hazard….and what if a an entrepreneur comes up with something better than seatbelts? Then they are just a cost.
Most if not all regulation is bad. More pool regulation – fuck me, please what else can we do? The pool fence laws are restrictive enough as it is.
Which is why some regulation has major bipartisan support.
Ah no it is because politicians are softcocks.
Meanwhile, extremists like the LDP go crazy about getting a handful of local council seats, because that’s all they’re good for electorally.
Wrong. Gillard is going to gaol. This is the only reason why you are concerned about children you will never have in a State you don’t live in where you have misrepresented the law as it is.
Right Dot, so do you see any parents convicted of murder or manslaughter for allowing their kid to drown by accident? No, no you don’t.
They should be. Your children are not the responsibility of the state. Anyone who disagrees can line up for neutering.
Note from the bottom of Governmental directives:
Pool owners are reminded that there is no substitute for constant adult supervision of children in and around swimming pools to prevent drownings and other accidents.
minty disagrees with this commonsense because he is a pathetic human being who gets his own self worth from the intrusiveness of Government. its like he thinks Year 10 civics classes are the greatest thing in human experience.
LOL, Dot’s solution to safety issues is to lock up grieving parents. You’re such a moron.
Yep. Because they are REQUIRED TO HAVE A CHILD PROOF FENCE ANYWAY.
Please, explain how it is moronic to force parents to follow common law responsibilities they already have?
They’re greiving. Of course they’re greiving – it is their fault.
“No, you can’t prosecute me for what I did to a family member, I’m grieving – but hey go ahead force the rest of responsible society to be burdened by me”
The right to not have to open a self closing gate to get to their pools? Oh diddums.
Parents have a duty of care with their children regardless of whatever safety mandates are cooked up by Government.
If your children die even with such safety features implemented – you are really, really irresponsible and should be criminally liable.
This would be hilarious if the subject matter wasn’t so sad.
One person in a million dies every year in NSW and rather than prosecute the person responsible, because it might hurt their feelings, we need to implement yet more restrictions on the rest of society to salve the conscience of those responsible, thus ensuring other negligent parties in the future can make the same hand waving as others did before and never take responsibility for their omissions.
The fact of the matter is if your kids scale a child proof fence which is currently required by legislation anyway, and they drown, it’s your fault.
They are not commonsense. They encourage moral hazard….and what if a an entrepreneur comes up with something better than seatbelts? Then they are just a cost.
Most if not all regulation is bad. More pool regulation – fuck me, please what else can we do? The pool fence laws are restrictive enough as it is.
If someone came up with something better than a seatbelt then I’m sure it would get traction. You’re just being obtuse. As Steve said, diddums.
Ah no it is because politicians are softcocks.
Ah no it is because politicians from major parties are in the business of being elected, and realise that supporting regulation to prevent deaths is a no-brainer. Unlike you LDP types, who have the luxury of a lack of responsibility so you can spout any old crap.
Your children are not the responsibility of the state. Anyone who disagrees can line up for neutering.
Case in point.
Note from the bottom of Governmental directives:
Pool owners are reminded that there is no substitute for constant adult supervision of children in and around swimming pools to prevent drownings and other accidents.
minty disagrees with this commonsense
Yet again, Dot tries to verbal in lieu of a cogent argument. No, I don’t disagree with that sentiment. But even with supervision, adults don’t have eyes in the back of their heads. Pool fences are a prudent safety measure. It’s not even a political issue. It’s civilisation.
Token, I get sick of libertarians railing against common sense safety precautions like pool fences or seat belts as if they are an affront to liberty.
I actually believe that pool fences save the lives of children. It is those offensive open ended emotive statements which I objected to.
What is crazy with those laws are that a friend of mine wanted to install a hot tub on her back patio and found the council insisting that according to the existing moronic laws in NSW she would have to install a fence around the tub.
The hottub comes with a cover and lock which when applied is superior to any fence.
The f*ckwits refused to acknowledge that the cover and lock was acceptable and wanted her to install a fence. She eventually got an exemption due to some loophole as the f*ckwit bureaucrats would not give ground.
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
So for the last 50 years, pre “pool registration” people haven’t “cared” about toddlers drowning in pools?
And in Victoria, where pools don’t need to be registered you all don’t “care” about toddlers drowning? Victoria: The toddler drowning lovers state.
And the 16 year NSW Labor government who didn’t see the need to implement “pool registration” to stop toddlers from drowning (wtf) – are they among the “Champions” of the right for toddlers to drown?
What a wanker you are m0nty. Just a totalitarian shill.
If someone came up with something better than a seatbelt then I’m sure it would get traction. You’re just being obtuse. As Steve said, diddums.
Moral hazard is obtuse…um okay.
Ah no it is because politicians from major parties are in the business of being elected, and realise that supporting regulation to prevent deaths is a no-brainer.
Then they should prosecute parents for negligence.
But even with supervision, adults don’t have eyes in the back of their heads. Pool fences are a prudent safety measure. It’s not even a political issue. It’s civilisation.
NSW is “uncivilised” because we have pool safety laws but they aren’t regulated tightly in terms of conveyancing?
Fuck me. What a lunatic. Outlawing parental responsibility over children is “civilised”. I guess you think Aboriginal outstations are the bastion of the West?
What is crazy with those laws are that a friend of mine wanted to install a hot tub on her back patio and found the council insisting that according to the existing moronic laws in NSW she would have to install a fence around the tub.
The hottub comes with a cover and lock which when applied is superior to any fence.
The f*ckwits refused to acknowledge that the cover and lock was acceptable and wanted her to install a fence. She eventually got an exemption due to some loophole as the f*ckwit bureaucrats would not give ground.
She is uncivilised, a lunatic, has the luxury of no responsibility and can spout whatever nonsense she likes, champions the drowning of toddlers etc, according to mental midget minty.
Research in 2003 commissioned by the NSW government Water Safety Taskforce, found Asian fishermen – predominantly Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese – represented 49 per cent of rock fishing fatalities. The two men who died yesterday were Chinese.
Yet again, Dot tries to verbal in lieu of a cogent argument. No, I don’t disagree with that sentiment. But even with supervision, adults don’t have eyes in the back of their heads. Pool fences are a prudent safety measure. It’s not even a political issue. It’s civilisation
M0nty you dishonest cock, pool fences are already mandatory. Can you read? This law isn’t about pool fences, it’s about being forced to register your pool with the government and enduring “inspections” at a cost to the owner – owning a pool will become as onerous as storing a gun.
Would you like come back to relevance rather than setting up strawmen about pool fences?
Apparently pool fencing to save one life in a million and reduce the blowback of prosectuing the parents who are responsible, is now (and has been for three years) a Federal issue!
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
It’s not for poorly designed pools it for pools that were designed before pool fencing laws. $370,000 pools at $150 per inspection equals $55 million.
AGE – 32.9% of all toddler drowning victims are 2 year olds. 26.8% of all toddler drowning victims are 1 year olds.
GENDER – 65.9% of toddler drowning victims are male. 24.1% of toddler drowning victims are female.
PROPERTY – 60% of all toddler drowning occur in child’s own home. 70% of all toddler drowning occur in Metropolitan areas. 30% occur in Rural areas.
LOCATION – 41.5% of toddler drowning occurred in swimming pools. 19.5% of toddler drowning occurred in baths. 15.9% of toddler drowning occurred in dams.14.6% of toddler drowning occurred in lakes or rivers.
TIMING – 39% of toddler drowning occurs between 9am and 3pm. 37.8% of toddler drowning occurs between 3pm and 6pm. 19.5% of toddler drowning occur between 6pm and 9pm.
So for a $55 million cost of putting a compliance plate on a pool fence 41% of pool drowning toddlers may have a better chance of survival? I think they would have a better chance if the parents just kept a closer eye on them.
Children Deaths
under 5: 16*
Men aged
18-34: 62
People aged
over 55 years: 117
So what we now have is a $55 million compliance cost to maybe (there is no stats I can find to say those 16 toddler deaths were because the pool owner did not have a complant pool fence) prevent seven deaths due to lack of supervision on the parents part.
Note* 16 under 5 year old deaths is nationally so NSW’s contribution will be even lower.
If the NSW government were honest about this they should say they are doing it to prevent the vast majority of pissed octogenarians and foolish Dawin award receipients from danger.
This law isn’t about pool fences, it’s about being forced to register your pool with the government and enduring “inspections” at a cost to the owner – owning a pool will become as onerous as storing a gun.
It’s the price of civilisation, 26. Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.
Motor vehicles have been registered for years and years, and you even have to have a licence to operate one. So no toddlers have died in car accidents. Nope, never happens. Couldn’t really because after payment of bribe the gubmint says its safe, hey?
Like I said, this hyperbole would be hilarious if the subject matter wasn’t so sombre.
Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.
Um no. Only whacko extremists refuse to prosecute irresponsible parents because they are softcocks more concerned about staying in power than doing the right thing.
Children still die with these laws. Why not ban pools? It’s “civilised”.
Only whacko extremists refuse to prosecute irresponsible parents because they are softcocks more concerned about staying in power than doing the right thing.
This is the rhetorical corner you regularly paint yourself into, Dot. Everyone except you is an extremist, according to you. You’re a joke.
I remember some story about some poor old bloke who was being prosecuted because his neighbours’ kids drowned in his pool which hadn’t been properly fenced.
Sorry but that shits me. What the heck were the bloody parents doing letting their children trespass into the neighbours’ property in the first place?
“Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.”
Yes mUttly, their own backyard. Do you see the conundrum? Your next dragon to slay could be finding a compliance threshold to describe fit and proper parents.
The shark issue involves grown adults. The pool fence issue involves toddlers. Try again, Dot.
So we can disregard the lives of adults because of personal choice?
Fine.
Then you must consider the role of parents. They are what matters. Not pool fences.
There is no beclowning, monty.
Seatbelts would be inferior to stronger negligent driving laws and holding the owners of roads responsible both criminally and civilly for poor design and maintenance.
Modern seatbelts do save lives, even if the old designs were sometimes dangerous. Moral hazard means that non compulsory seat belts are less dangerous, if you discount the lives of adults because of personal choice – which you have done previously.
OMG SFB has been here all day defending Gillard and attacking Abbott like the good little Labor lapdog he is and then monty joins in to help his little buddy.
Gillard called and said that both of you should just stop writing crap.
Apparently pool fencing to save one life in a million and reduce the blowback of prosectuing the parents who are responsible, is now (and has been for three years) a Federal issue!
It would be very unusual circumstances where they prosecute the parents (because in most cases the parents have already suffered a huge amount and prosecution/punishment is not going to act as an extra disincentive). There was one recent case where they prosecuted a man for manslaughter for a pool that wasn’t fenced properly after a neighbours toddler drowned though. I don’t think its worked its way through the courts to a verdict yet though.
This is the rhetorical corner you regularly paint yourself into, Dot. Everyone except you is an extremist, according to you. You’re a joke.
That’s funny monty, even lurker SOON disagrees with you.
You’re an extremist monty. You have said that Government’s only role and civilisation is defined by being able to to protect toddlers in spite of the negligence of their parents.
I totally agree Jason.
The idea that you ought to be responsible for trespassers is just bullshit. The parents involved should be charged, perhaps with a lesser crime than manslaughter.
because in most cases the parents have already suffered a huge amount and prosecution/punishment is not going to act as an extra disincentive
The disincentive is for society in general.
What you are saying chris is that it is illogical to punish people who hurt, injure, maim, kill or murder their family members because they suffer guilt because they hurt a loved one.
Society is better off that the common law is harsh and doesn’t make such distinctions.
OMG SFB has been here all day defending Gillard and attacking Abbott like the good little Labor lapdog he is and then monty joins in to help his little buddy.
Yes, I’m going to have to talk to Sussex Street, Gab. This roster they have for me, mOnt and SteveC looks a bit too transparent sometimes.
Seatbelts would be inferior to stronger negligent driving laws and holding the owners of roads responsible both criminally and civilly for poor design and maintenance.
Rubbish. Regulation via post facto litigation is shockingly inefficient, you only have to look at the health industry. Prevention is far better than cure when it comes to car accidents and pool accidents. Seatbelts should not be a political issue, and the fact that you lot attack them time and again only shows how ideologically rooted you are.
All government has to do is make water so damned expensive that people will be erecting strong security fencing around pools to prevent theft. Federal and State lefties have already made a good start on this goal.
What you are saying chris is that it is illogical to punish people who hurt, injure, maim, kill or murder their family members because they suffer guilt because they hurt a loved one.
If a parent intentionally drowned their child in a pool then they would be prosecuted. Or even if they intentionally left a child in a dangerous situation where it was likely that they could drown. There’s a big difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm. Of course everyone here are perfect parents and never make mistakes!
And prosecuting in those accidental cases is often not a disincentive for society in general. Because most parents out there don’t want their children to drown accidentally and the thought of them drowning due to their inattention is already much greater disincentive than the though of possible criminal prosecution.
The pool fencing laws are not only meant to cover situations of children at their own home, but also where they are visiting other people’s homes. Eg situations where you have a bunch of families with lots young children running around where its easy to lose of track or think that someone else is supervising.
Even if you can make out a case for some pool fence laws, you can’t justify the creative idiocy of the current laws.
On what possible sane basis can an owner be required to fence a pool that is next to a dam? Toddlers could drone in the pool but can’t drown in the dam? What crap. Yet that is the law.
In this case the law is an ass. The $55M is because the grubbermint will not do a cost benefit analysis when “lives are at stake”, they’ll just spend other peoples’ money to no real benefit, so they can be seen to be doing something.
Regulation via post facto litigation is shockingly inefficient, you only have to look at the health industry.
Previously you inferred that you thought that adults safety can be disregarded. Were you lying before?
Prevention is far better than cure when it comes to car accidents and pool accidents.
Which includes tough penalties for negligence. Pool fences already exist, NSW is just going to cop extra regulation for no demonstratable benefit. No one has ever actually proven that pool fencing saves lives. There is always the moral hazard, encouraged by politicians who are too soft to prosecute negligent parents.
Seatbelts should not be a political issue, and the fact that you lot attack them time and again only shows how ideologically rooted you are.
“Regulation should be above politics. Do what you are told.”
What I said about seatbelts is entirely true.
Again you are caught out lying again. If adults ought to be protected from their own actions, then we should ban alcohol, swimming at beaches, kill dangerous marine life or ban sailing, etc.
Regulation via post facto litigation is shockingly inefficient,
Fat lefties have no fucking idea how the world goes around.
Monster, you fat dolt, statute acts as a signaling method. Why do you morons think there would be no signalling with common law? people wouldn’t get the message? Shut up.
My wife and I were recently staying in the Four Seasons in Jimbaran Bay in Bali. One of the pools at the resort is within a small villa which is being used as a club, whilst a new restaurant is built. The club was wonderful. Intthe middle of the courtyard was a lovely pool surrorunded by sunlounges and a with steps on one side straight into a lovely cpacious cabana.
My wife kept wondering why the whole scene was so wonderful yet so strange. Then it hit us, no resort in Australia could have such a pool, there were no ugly signs explaining what to do in an emergency and no child saftey fences to destroy the ambience. There ewas a discrete rubber life preserver hanging picturesquely on a tree.
The case of the man charged with manslaughter is explained in a bit of detail here. The fence was apparently dilapidated (another report I found said for 12 months).
As for the culpability of the parent:
The toddler, his parents’ only child, was playing with his mother in their front yard about 4pm on May 14 when he wandered off.
Ms Plint, who has been involved in the investigation, said the mother looked away for ”a matter of seconds”.
The mother frantically searched for the boy but a neighbour found him in Mr Cameron’s pool.
Pool owners are required by law to erect and maintain adequate fencing.
Neighbours had apparently complained about Mr Cameron’s fence. However, the general manager of Armidale Dumaresq Council, Shane Burns, said a formal complaint was never received so the council was never obliged to check the fence.
Toddlers can get away quickly, and it appears the mother realised he was gone soon.
A sad case. It will be interesting to see if a jury convicts. I think the evidence of neighbours as to the nature of complaints they might have made to the guy directly may be quite influential.
It is a situation deal with much better by better regulation of the type being introduced.
Even if you can make out a case for some pool fence laws, you can’t justify the creative idiocy of the current laws.
It is a good law. Simple enforcement of it is, therefore, good.
On what possible sane basis can an owner be required to fence a pool that is next to a dam? Toddlers could drone in the pool but can’t drown in the dam? What crap. Yet that is the law.
The law should not be relaxed due to the presence of nearby water sources. That is silly.
In this case the law is an ass. The $55M is because the grubbermint will not do a cost benefit analysis when “lives are at stake”, they’ll just spend other peoples’ money to no real benefit, so they can be seen to be doing something.
Cato, if any elected politician released a cost benefit analysis where one of the variables was innocent citizens’ lives, they would get bounced out of office. And rightly so.
There’s a big difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm. Of course everyone here are perfect parents and never make mistakes!
No, there isn’t.
If you want to regulate me then I want you to be a saint.
PS
Try telling that sob story about “no one being perfect” for traffic offences.
The pool fencing laws are not only meant to cover situations of children at their own home, but also where they are visiting other people’s homes. Eg situations where you have a bunch of families with lots young children running around where its easy to lose of track or think that someone else is supervising.
If a group of adults cannot keep an eye on children – then yes, none of you deserve to have children.
Harsh but fair. You cannot seriously point out the grievousness of the topic and then ignore all parental responsibility.
“We’re pissed. We want the Government to supervise our kids”
Previously you inferred that you thought that adults safety can be disregarded. Were you lying before?
The ocean can’t be regulated for swimmers. You dive in there as an adult, you sign off on any thought of compensation for being mauled by wild animals. There are no wild animals in cars or backyards. There is no valid analogy there.
Pool fences already exist, NSW is just going to cop extra regulation for no demonstratable benefit. No one has ever actually proven that pool fencing saves lives.
Wrong again, Dot.
The introduction of mandatory pool fencing in NSW in the 1990s has proven to decrease the
number of drowning deaths by approximately 50% (see Table 1).
Toddlers can get away quickly, and it appears the mother realised he was gone soon.
Oh bullshit. He wandered off 50 m or so in a couple of seconds? A kid can run faster than a car?
What a terrible mother.
Note the poll Steve. Society agrees with me.
Cato, if any elected politician released a cost benefit analysis where one of the variables was innocent citizens’ lives, they would get bounced out of office. And rightly so.
munty sez: we must be irrational to succour whingers and the guilty even if the majority disagrees.
A couple of days ago, munty was advocating mob rule!
There is more to this story. So this guy didn’t have a side fence or gate?
Cato, if any elected politician released a cost benefit analysis where one of the variables was innocent citizens’ lives, they would get bounced out of office. And rightly so.
Yet the study he linked to uses VSLYs (value of statistical life years).
Idiot.
Car crash data is just like pool data.
Trauma treatment and post emergency treatment care and complication management and prevention has gotten better.
I notice brc, JC and CL are showing their inability to comprehend a fairly simple sentence. SFB queried what the “fate of the fish” would be. “Stupid question, they get eaten” they replied. (stupidest question award proposed even).
A reasonable interpretation of what steve meant, would be where will the fish end up? The answer according to Seafish Tasmania is Africa:
Most of the catch will be exported to West Africa for human consumption. It is expected that some of the catch will be sold to Asian markets. None of the catch will be used to produce fishmeal
A top Tasmanian fisheries scientist has slammed the government’s 11th-hour move to stop the controversial Abel Tasman super trawler as unscientific and driven by political expediency.
Colin Buxton, the director of the fisheries, aquaculture and coasts centre at the University of Tasmania’s institute for marine and antarctic studies in Hobart, said that the size of the 142-metre Dutch-owned trawler did not mean that it posed any greater environmental risk than several smaller vessels.
”It’s just staggering [that] popularism and political expediency is now managing our fisheries,” he said. ”I think it’s incredibly dangerous. It’s really sad that the decision has been handed down in this way.”
Professor Buxton said the 18,000-tonne fish quota given to Seafish Tasmania was sustainable according to solid science.
He said that an ecosystem model developed by the CSIRO – regarded as the ”best ecological model available” – had been used to calculate the total population of fish and any potential impact on the food chain.
Professor Buxton, who stressed he had no connection with any company, industry body or regulator, said that ”localised depletion” – the danger of emptying out a part of the ocean if a large ship fished too long in one place – was probably less of a risk with the super trawler.
Yet the study he linked to uses VSLYs (value of statistical life years).
And concludes that “resources allocated to a mandatory swimming pool inspection program would prove to be very beneficial”. Let me amend my earlier statement:
Cato, if any elected politician released a cost benefit analysis where one of the variables was innocent citizens’ lives to justify sacrificing lives for money, they would get bounced out of office. And rightly so.
So, there should be no shortage of actual witnesses to Wayne Swan’s effort in Question Time today. Everyone who was watching the live broadcast on ABC saw him reading numbers back in response to Joe Hockey’s question and then denying it. Misleading the Parliament is a hanging offence is it not?
so minty, you think that overall drowning incidents have declined (they haven’t) and reject that emergency medical care for drownings hasn’t improved?
We’re talking about toddlers, for whom incidents have declined markedly with direct effects seen in the graph from legislation. You can’t deny the numbers.
So, there should be no shortage of actual witnesses to Wayne Swan’s effort in Question Time today.
The Goose will riggle out of it, he will use Shagger’s defence: ” It wasn’t my writing on the document and I was interstate at the time of the transaction. If that goes bad he can always fall back on : I was young and naive”.
No monty you have been caught out lying several times.
You love mob rule in democracy but think politicians who prosecuted parents for negligence would be bounced out of office, despite the idea being popular.
You think using lives in a CBA is wrong, yet quote a study which uses them.
You actually deny that pre hospital and trauma care (and post operative/emergency care and management) for crashes and drowning incidents has improved over the last 20 years.
You deny there is any moral hazard with safety regulations.
You think in some cases adults should be protected from themselves (single occupants of cars not wearing seatbelts) but not from themselves at other times (i.e swimming in the ocean).
You believe it is wrong to prosecute negligent parents on emotional grounds but then use emotive statements to argue against rational analysis of cost and benefits of regulation.
You have criticised regulation after the fact but supported it because you are too pissweak to support the prosecution of negligent parents.
You have denied there is an effect of any kind in punishing negligent parties.
You have called regulation “above politics” but resorted to tribalism and grandstanding whilst making the statement.
You are simply a liar with their own wretched view of utopia and you are obsessed with inflicting it upon everyone else.
The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.
You object to this and are willing to lie relentlessly because you then lose out by not being on the side of a Government telling millions of people what to do, that is to be responsible for children whom are not theirs.
More kids die from being run over in the driveway and being left in a overheated locked cars. Should we mandate laws to prevent stupid people from having children in the first place?
So what will the enforced registration of the pools achieve? That has not been resolved.
Is a monster database administered by the existing cadre of public servants the most effective way to reduce the # of deaths?
My story about the hot-tub in a backyard with no public access with a padlock should tell you how likely that will be.
If the issue is the old fellow would not deal with the problem, isn’t there some laws like those used to help neighbour deal with encroaching trees, that can be used to allow the community to resolve these issues themselves?
Every one of your points is a deliberate misrepresentation of my position, Dot. You are a constant liar in this regard.
The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.
Complete and utter bullshit. Look at the numbers. Pool deaths by toddlers pre-1992 in NSW: four out of five years deaths were above 20. Post-1992: never above 20, and now well into single figures.
Do you seriously think parents aren’t punished enough by their child dying? What deterrent could possibly be worse than that?
mOnty:
There’s a big difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm.
Dot:
No, there isn’t.
Did you actually mean to type that, dot?
No, there isn’t. The maximum penalty for manslaughter and murder is the same.
Same with most negligence related crimes.
The courts however are tolerant and can have much more leeway in reducing your sentence.
There is a difference. If it is big or not is up to the court to decide.
More kids die from being run over in the driveway and being left in a overheated locked cars. Should we mandate laws to prevent stupid people from having children in the first place?
Clearly we need to mandate all cars have rear view cameras!
Do you seriously think parents aren’t punished enough by their child dying? What deterrent could possibly be worse than that?
I dunno? Gaol?
Every one of your points is a deliberate misrepresentation of my position, Dot. You are a constant liar in this regard.
No they are not and you are constant slanderer in this regard.
Complete and utter bullshit. Look at the numbers. Pool deaths by toddlers pre-1992 in NSW: four out of five years deaths were above 20. Post-1992: never above 20, and now well into single figures.
Indeed. Look at total incidents and the evolution of medical care, you twit.
Everyone who was watching the live broadcast on ABC saw him reading numbers back in response to Joe Hockey’s question and then denying it. Misleading the Parliament is a hanging offence is it not?
Sorry to tell you this Septimus, but the Stenographers will cover it all up and ensure that Goose can continue to act like a half-wit again tomorrow and for the next year.
Tuesday he was being a boofhead making statements that Abbott is a thug. Yesterday this was his approach.
(But) he slammed the door shut on his press conferences because he doesn’t want to answer questions.”
Referring to the punching incident, Mr Swan said Mr Abbott wanted to “separate himself from his past”.
The acting prime minister accused Mr Abbott of deliberately maintaining “radio silence”.
The opposition leader hit back, citing sensitivity to the Canberra funeral for Robert Poate, one of the three Australian soldiers who was shot dead in Afghanistan last month by a rogue Afghan soldier.
“There is a military funeral on today and that is why I thought it would be best not to go out and do a party political doorstop,” Mr Abbott told parliament.
“You (Mr Swan) have been informed by the manager of the house and you shouldn’t make those sorts of smears in this parliament.”
How much outrage did you hear across the media of Labor exploiting the funeral of serviceman in between those baseless claims peddled by the Stenographers about Abbott exploiting Gillard’s father’s death?
Jacques, if you lot are having trouble with funding, why not put up a link so we can donate and keep you out of the clutches of those eviiil advertisers?
He’s not saying it’s “worse” monster, you dishonest idiot. He’s saying that even if you lose a kid due to negligence, you should still be up for jail time.
look you knucklehead, if you’re worried about your kid getting into a neighbor’s pool then build a secure perimeter yourself numbnut. Stop whacking others for costs.
He’s not saying it’s “worse” monster, you dishonest idiot. He’s saying that even if you lose a kid due to negligence, you should still be up for jail time.
He’s saying that pool fence laws should be cleaned off the books in favour of the deterrent of criminal convictions against grieving parents. In short, he’s a bloviating moron.
It’s the price of civilisation, 26. Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.
So you Victorians are whacko uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown then?
Because you don’t have this law.
And yesterday in NSW, before anybody had heard of this law we were “uncivilized” extremists?
No he’s not moron. He’s saying that parents ought to take their own precautions. Build your own secure fence. Make sure your kid is always safe. Don’t expect someone else to be taking care of him or her. And if you fuck up that responsibility, then it’s your neck that gets the noose, not some stranger. Stop asking other people to take responsibility for your own fuck ups Monst, you loathsome cretin.
The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.
Dot, do you have any evidence whatsoever of that extraordinary claim?
Monty may not have children, it’s different perspective when you have kids, more aware of your own responsiblities. Relying on strangers can be quite hazardous.
look you knucklehead, if you’re worried about your kid getting into a neighbor’s pool then build a secure perimeter yourself numbnut. Stop whacking others for costs.
Well said. Why should the cost of compliance be borne by everyone except for inattentive parents. Should all dogs be caged like birds just in case a toddler wanders into a neigbours fenced yard and is mauled while his mother updates her facebook page?
“The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.”
Why is it better to punish transgressors, rather than prevent the transgression in the first place?
So you Victorians are whacko uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown then?
Because you don’t have this law.
In case you missed the link earlier, we Victorians are also enjoying a “safety blitz” on backyard pools, 26. Both instituted by Liberal premiers.
He’s saying that pool fence laws should be cleaned off the books in favour of the deterrent of criminal convictions against grieving parents.
No he’s not
The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.
I’d be walking away from Dot on this one if I were you, JC. He goes way too far, way too often.
The pool fence law has been in force for 20 years. Do you agree with the law or not, 26? Either a law is worth enforcing or it isn’t.
This is not an argument against pool fence laws m0nty you fuckwit.
This is an argument against being forced to “register” your pool and be subjected to “inspections” more arduous than owning a rifle.
More children die in baths than pools, so do tell, what intrusions will you, the lonely barren middle aged IT loser foist upon us young parents to “protect” our children in the bath from our supposed failings?
So you Victorians are whacko uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown then?
Because you don’t have this law.
In case you can’t read m0nty, YOU DON”T HAVE THIS LAW, asking owners to do “self audits” is a hell of a long way from mandatory registeration, spot inspections and multi thousand dollar fines.
So I ask again, are you Victorians uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown?
And of course the bigger question, clearly the previous Labor governments who ignored the multitudes of drowning toddlers for decades were negligent and uncivilized as well.
A total of 67 Fairfax journalists at the Age, including some big names such as associate editor Shaun Carney and a number of other editors, are being farewelled at a tearful function in Melbourne this evening, I’m told. FXJ employees are desperate to believe it’s the internet’s fault, but FXJ circulations (Age, SMH) are collapsing at 15-20% p.a. while the competition News Ltd experience more accurately reflects world trends of 3-5% p.a. Make no mistake: FXJ is collapsing because it has torched its main consumer trading commodity, credibility. The same is occurring overseas at newspapers like the Guardian and the NY Times (although at a less drastic rate compared with Fairfax), whose writing can no longer be trusted because of political bias. Their readers are being treated like idiots; in fact, readers are now highly educated and can use the web to fact-check everything they’re being told. The only journalism that will survive is the old-fashioned ethical bias-free 100%-original type which the third-rate hacks at Fairfax thought they could get away with ditching. Listen up, touchy-feely clowns, with your untouchable Charter of Editorial Independence: you killed your own jobs; you killed a great company.
Politicians don’t like to admit it; but most of their choices cost lives, one way or the other.
That may be true, but politicians can’t be seen to be choosing money over lives.
In case you can’t read m0nty, YOU DON”T HAVE THIS LAW, asking owners to do “self audits” is a hell of a long way from mandatory registeration, spot inspections and multi thousand dollar fines.
Do you not think that if O’Farrell has success lowering incident rate in NSW that Baillieu wouldn’t follow suit, tout de suite? Victorians wouldn’t ark up about the same law being enacted here. This is a bipartisan issue, 26.
Good work mOron. So it”s ok to charge someone with manslaughter when they don’t look after their fence.
Then when an irresponsible parent loses a child because of their own negligence we should start supporting foundations they set up, tell them shit to make them feel better, hold their hands, blame the pool owner, let the crap parent feel like a victim and start giving pool owners a hard time. FMD you’re particularly stupid. As usual. SNAFU.
In any case this new pool registration regime has less to do with safety and than it has to do with councils and rates.
Notice who announced the law: the Minister for Local Government. Councils around here have been whinging loudly for years about people putting in pools without paying council for the privilege. Taking to using satellite imaging to check for “unapproved” pools in peoples backyards. This is the solution to that wrapped up as “safety” for dimwits like m0nty.
Do you not think that if O’Farrell has success lowering incident rate in NSW that Baillieu wouldn’t follow suit, tout de suite? Victorians wouldn’t ark up about the same law being enacted here. This is a bipartisan issue, 26.
HAhahaha so you’re admitting that you people in Victoria really are”uncivilised” “extremists” who don’t care about toddlers drowning.
Very interesting.
Now tell us about the previous “extremist” “uncivilized” ALP governments who despite having over a decade to do so didn’t pass these laws to save the lives of innocents.
Why do people on this blog persist in making stupid fact free claims?
More kids die from being run over in the driveway and being left in a overheated locked cars
Wrong – ABS:
In children 0-4 years, Accidents caused by submersion, suffocation and foreign bodies 45.7% of all accidental deaths. ALL motor vehicle accidents – 34%
It’s not “verballing” m0nty, it’s your stupid bullshit “logic” laid bare.
You claim that this law is a requirement of civilisation to “save innocents” and only “extremists” who want to see toddlers drown are against it.
You. Who live in a state that doesn’t have this law.
Now answer the question, the previous ALP government had over a decade to implement these laws which you claim are absolutely necessary to save innocent toddler’s lives but didn’t.
If zero child drownings is your goal, and legislation is the means by which you intend to achieve this goal, wouldn’t it be even better to mandate that all children from 3 months to 16 years be forced to wear life jackets 24/7/365, with a hefty penalty to the parents if any child is found non-complying?
Forty Tamil asylum seekers are on the way this evening from Christmas Island to Nauru this evening, via Darwin, along with one AFP officer for every refo, according to Steve Price.
So to determine if there is a difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm, we should look at the The maximum penalty for manslaughter compared to murder.
That would have to rate as one of most stupid arguments I’ve seen put up.
So let’s see, 1) I’ll deleiberately drown my kid by holding his head under the water, or 2) I’ll not check the pool gate closed properly behind me and he drowns while I’m not looking.
sdog, you’re an idiot who thinks you increase safety and decrease crime by arming everyone. You have no credibility except to dimwit libertarians who should be kept out of government because they are absolutely useless on issues of what should be legislated for the common good.
If zero child drownings is your goal, and legislation is the means by which you intend to achieve this goal, wouldn’t it be even better to mandate that all children from 3 months to 16 years be forced to wear life jackets 24/7/365, with a hefty penalty to the parents if any child is found non-complying?
I don’t quite understand what the argument is here. Several people don’t object to pool safety laws per se, just governments taking steps to ensure they’re followed?
You have no credibility except to dimwit libertarians who should be kept out of government because they are absolutely useless on issues of what should be legislated for the common good.
Yes, yes.
You couldn’t counter my superior plan for Zero Child Drownings through Superior Legislation, so you went full ::flail::
The other Steve’s concern about child suffocation and child choking on foreign objects is touching too. Let’s wire all children’s jaws closed so they can’t put anything in their mouths which, swallowed, might cause them to choke; and let’s handcuff them to sturdy straight-backed chairs so that they can’t get themselves in the position where they might suffocate themselves.
With enough legislation, no child will ever die a tragic accidental death ever again.
Actually, 20 seconds for a baby alone in a bath is pushing it, IT.
It was about 5 seconds but that doesn’t really have the dramatic effect I was going for. I called someone from the government to mind him while I got the towel but they said they couldn’t get there until next year.
My fully fenced and totally safety compliant pool has been that way for 26 years and I’m not sure exactly how paying an extra $150 come in to have council clipboard holders to check it out will make it any safer. I’ve been a trained teacher of swimming to children and am totally vigilant about watching visiting children. Even my adult children know that I don’t like them using the pool when there is no one else at home in case of an accident.
BUT…not one kilometre up the road is a housing development built 15 years ago on land owned by the Defence Department. Every single day I drive past the lovely open park that fronts the development with two, fully approved by council, UNFENCED, ornamental lakes. Those lakes would be much easier for a scarpering, unsupervised toddler to get to than any pool in someone’s backyard.
So, tell me again how this makes sense to anyone with half a brain?
I don’t quite understand what the argument is here. Several people don’t object to pool safety laws per se, just governments taking steps to ensure they’re followed?
Well gee Steve, it’s almost like there’s a range of responses and maybe some of us who actually live here, where we will be affected by this law (unlike you and m0nty who live in “extremist” “uncivilised” states without this law who prefer to let toddlers die) feel that this law is absurd and draconian, and know that it has less to do with safety than helping councils monitor building regulations.
The question is though, is there anything, anything at all that a government in this country could propose that you and m0nty wouldn’t immediately be in favour of?
Oh of course…if a government is in favour of decreasing the size of government, that really gets you going with the extremist talk.
Hey Dog, I thought of you when I saw this shit on TV tonight – NSW cops bragging about their new in-car tech that enables them to slam huge fines on people for unlicensed, unreg, etc, using central databases. If they tried this on American TV, especially in the South, I’m guessing, there’d be a riot and the state police chief would be sacked. Australia is the over-governed, fascist capital of the world; government here boasts about the nanny state’s intrusion on people’s lives.
I don’t quite understand what the argument is here. Several people don’t object to pool safety laws per se, just governments taking steps to ensure they’re followed?
It’s the creation of a new bureaucratic monstrosity that causes concern.
You claim that this law is a requirement of civilisation to “save innocents” and only “extremists” who want to see toddlers drown are against it.
The underlying law requiring pool fences, yes. Which has been in effect in all Australian states, to a lesser or greater degree, since the early 90s when the standard for pool fences was established.
Your argument is about enforcement of the underlying law with a new law to enforce it more stringently. (Ignoring radical extremists like Dot who also attack the underlying law, for the moment.) Cato wants every law to be enforced with reference to a CBA right up to the point where the accountants judge it not worthwhile to keep saving lives. In this case, a CBA is overwhelmingly in favour of enforcing the law. What other argument against it can you provide, other than a dogmatic hatred of all regulation?
The only part of this where I’d be on your side is if the fees for inspections ended up providing revenue over and above the compliance costs for government. In that case, it would be a thinly veiled revenue generation tool, like speeding tickets. I wouldn’t put it past any Premier to do that in the current environment.
No, no. It’s only pools which are the problem. I spent much of my childhood on the narrow end of a barrier island with the unfenced ocean as my back yard, and we also lived on the unfenced Intra-Coastal Waterway for a time, with an unfenced dock and an unsecured boatlift we used to take great delight lowering each other into the deep, cold, muddy, barge-churned water on. Didn’t have a swimming pool but, which is probably why I’m still alive to tell the tale.
$150 for some jackboot Johnny with a clipboard to invade your home. Sounds like a bargain!
I am surprised they weren’t more innovative. What about high definition satellite monitoring? At the same time, they could get great pics of all the backyard white pointers to show in a powerpoint presentation at the Christmas party.
Anyway, it is about registering the pool, and is a one off fee, like a building inspection. I would have thought it a bit rough to hit up people that were already registered and complaint though.
And why have a separate compliance requirement to building inspection anyway?
No more ornamental lakes. They must be fenced off and regular inspections. Same goes for rivers and creeks.
Don’t you see how the logic goes dd?
“Civilisation” requires that the all encompassing nanny state require people register their backyard pools to “save toddlers lives”.
But “civilisation” that also requires “public areas” and that the nanny state be totally immune itself from the suffocating laws that it imposes upon the lowly private individuals backyard.
When it’s about actions on public land it’s all about “personal responsibility” but when it comes to what happens behind closed doors…well can’t leave that to chance now can we? You can’t be trusted.
Actually, twostix, the labor government here introduced a compulsory “sustainability declaration” on the sale of a house, which was widely loathed and widely considered a big waste of time. (Virtually everyone in Queensland has a building inspection anyway which tells them if there is insulation in the ceiling, electric or gas hot water, etc.)
I did not support it at all, and am more than happy that they have been scrapped.
I am a reasonable person and make reasonable decisions but do not discount reasonable regulation as a better way of achieving things than ridiculous ideas such as dot has proposed in this thread.
Actually the answer to the fish question isnt as stupid as all that.
The ship has a history of trolling West Africa and stripping it bare of smaller fish. Now there is only a bare bones fishery left it needs to find new grounds. Hence Australia and exporting to West Africa.
Presumably purchased by the fishermen who used to have a job.
It was ‘legal’ fishing mind you, it’s just the rules are *flexible*.
That said I think the ship should fish here. More efficient.
Technically, m0nty is right. You don’t need to have sex to procreate any more.
Yeah, ask any Zambian – they’re using IVF these days.
What Monty said:
Heterosexual sex is no longer necessary.
This epically daft comment encapsulates the Mr Bean left’s unknowing infantilism when it comes to sex. Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
I was going to weigh in on the toddler-drowning debate with the toddler-getting-squashed-by-SUV statistic.
Clearly all driveways should be fenced with mandatory inspections. While we’re at it, bicycles and skateboards for kids should be banned, and we should erect 5 foot fences around all the roads. And every single stream, pond and fountain in the land should be filled in.
I grew up in a house with a pool, which was installed when I was 18 months old. We had no pool fence. In fact we had no fence at all. The neighbouring kids had an open invite to help themselves to a swim any time up until 5 pm.
I didn’t drown. Neither did anyone else, for that matter.
Toddler drownings are a tragic event. I support pool fences (and have one of my own). However, this absolute BS about inspections, fines and registrations is absolute crap. There is nothing in the world to stop someone from having a panel of fencing removed, and all the inspections and finger wagging isn’t going to stop that sort of person.
Driveways are more dangerous than pools, and every house has one. Supervision by parents is what is needed, and what ultimately makes the difference between life and death.
Note that many, many drownings occur in pools that are fenced. It can be a faulty latch, a gate propped open, or something as simple as a chair dragged over to the fence. I’ve seen a 2 year old scale a pool fence as though it wasn’t there, using her toes to grip the uprights like a native up a palm tree.
It’s the classic ‘won’t someone think of the children’ move – they force regulation and think that they have solved the problem, without once considering the massive cost on people and the economy in general.
Keep an eye on your kids and teach your kids how to swim.
The ship has a history of trolling West Africa and stripping it bare of smaller fish. Now there is only a bare bones fishery left it needs to find new grounds. Hence Australia and exporting to West Africa.
Bullshit. One ship couldn’t come anywhere close to causing as much depletion as you suggest. Secondly the ship is inanimate. It doesn’t go off shipping all by itself. It’s how people use it that is the point. How they use it and whom is using it.
JC Ill search around for a link but I read the story a while ago, before the talk of it coming here.
The already overfished Western African area was stripped mined by this bad boy, and other similar ships probably, and basically totalled it. The governments are hopelessly corrupt and it just finished off what fish they had left.
Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
“Strawman critiques no matter how inane are your forte.”
I actively strive to avoid strawman arguments. I pride myself on grappling with people’s strongest arguments. You, of course, have no strong arguments, so it’s rather difficult.
A Sydney sheikh has appeared in court in relation to the alleged genital mutilation of two children.
Sheikh Shabbir Vaziri, 56, who police sources say is part of a lesser-known branch of Islam, has been charged with two counts of accessory after the fact of female genital mutilation and hindering investigation of a serious indictable offence.
Police will allege the two girls had the procedure, which is also known as female circumcision, performed on them in NSW when they were aged six and seven within the past 18 months.
What is wrong with these people? are they insane, unfeeling or just evil?
You have no credibility except to dimwit libertarians who should be kept out of government because they are absolutely useless on issues of what should be legislated for the common good
And therein lies the problem, should we let groups of fuckwits decide for us what is the common good, or should we in the main be left to decide for ourselves.
Or in other words do we legislate for the dumbest of the dumb, or do we stay the fuck out of peoples lives.
Monty, SoB and the like are obviously not confident in their own ability to decide for themselves and so desperately want all decisions made for them and responsibilities abrogated.
Toddler drownings are a tragic event. I support pool fences (and have one of my own). However, this absolute BS about inspections, fines and registrations is absolute crap. There is nothing in the world to stop someone from having a panel of fencing removed, and all the inspections and finger wagging isn’t going to stop that sort of person.
Yearly inspections if that’s what they are proposing is overkill. Inspection on house sale would probably cover most cases and could be rolled into other inspections which are commonly done at the same time.
Driveways are more dangerous than pools, and every house has one. Supervision by parents is what is needed, and what ultimately makes the difference between life and death.
Supervision is definitely the first line of defence. Things like pool fences or medicine bottles which are hard to open are there to buy some time when supervision fails as it inevitably will at times (very few parents are perfect).
Keep an eye on your kids and teach your kids how to swim.
The teaching your kids to swim thing is I think a good idea, but again no guarantee. My daughter has had weekly swimming lessons since she was 6 months old. She knows enough to get to the edge of the pool in an emergency. When I took her on holiday when she was about 2.5 we went swimming in a pool that had a ramp. Even with all the prior pool experience I was stunned when she decided to just walk down the ramp until her head was under water without trying to stay afloat. I was of course supervising her very closely and I pulled her up very quickly. She wasn’t distressed by the experience at all.
But apparently its pretty common for toddlers to just not realise they are in danger until its too late. They can fall in and simply decide not to attempt to surface/swim. So parents don’t even get a warning from hearing their child splashing around or yelling for help.
JC: I’ll be dropping it now because it’ll drag on and I can’t find anything red hot to back me up.
But…
Its only a few countries coasts that were plundered – the bit that sticks out in the upper west of the continent. And I’m certain the Dutch ship was named and shamed a while ago but, like I say I can’t back it up.
Fortunately Australian has had a chance to save the African fisheries…
Heh. Peter Slipper still being paid to be the Speaker.
——————————————————
Emerson in QT gestured the Italian arm symbol for F.U.
Twice. At the coalition women. How low-rent is that? How misogynistic but, of course, no word from the Feminazi Labor coven. And not a peep out of the partisan hack sitting in as Speaker.
Italy sold three-year debt at the lowest rate in almost two years a day after Germany’s top constitutional court paved the way for the European Central Bank and the European Union to buy bonds of nations in distress.
The Rome-based Treasury sold 4 billion euros ($5.2 billion) of its benchmark three-year bond to yield 2.75 percent, down from 4.65 percent at the last auction of the same securities on July 13. That was the lowest Italy paid on three-year debt since October 2010, according to Bloomberg data. Investors bid for 1.49 times the amount offered, down from 1.73 times on July 13.
Here’s the problem though, both Italy and Spain are selling bonds in the shorter end of the spectrum, which means they are shorting duration and open for really big rollover risk down the road.
I live at the beach and my nephew and niece come over pretty often. They had swimming lessons from maybe 1yo.
But what I do notice is at 3 and 5 they have more clues than a lot of the overseas kids (in this area it’s Europe basically). I’ve semi rescued more than a couple from the surf as their parents casually watched.
He’s addicted to the Cat, Tiny. can’t keep away from the place. Gets his ass handed to him day-in day-out. He’s been mouthing off all day, said nothing though.
There’s a transcript of the recent Background Briefing episode on the supertrawler. I think the show did a good job of presenting the arguments from both sides.
Reading the transcript now reminded me of the allegation that the supertrawler is heavily subsidised by the EU. As is the fish processing plant in Europe that it sends its catch to. Apparently without the government subsidies it wouldn’t be financially viable. Essentially its a government employment scheme and with the anti-trawler people claiming that the people really fish for government subsidies I’m not sure that we should really care if the a foreign government is subsidising them, but if true is rather interesting.
So parents don’t even get a warning from hearing their child splashing around or yelling for help.
A common fallacy. A drowning person makes no noise apart from a slight swishing of water. Screaming or yelling indicates that air is moving through the lungs, and splashing indicates that the person is able to life hands or feet above the water level. A drowning person will have both hands and feet below the water, desperately trying to get their mouth into the air. A drowning baby or toddler may not even be aware they are in danger until it is too late.
Children have drowned while their parents watched because the parents didn’t realize they were actually drowning, having been trained by TV shows that drowning people wave their arms and yell for help.
I note the centre right party has won in the Netherlands, on a platform of fiscal responsibility. So maybe there is some sanity in parts of Europe after all. I also note that, like the French, they actually have socialist parties. I cannot believe in this day and age there are actually socialist political parties, as though the soviet socialist republic was really a grand success.
I’m just astonished at the level of hate and the lies they come up with in an attempt to damage Abbott. They know he’ll be the next PM so they’re doing everything they can by attacking him on a personal level in the hope that if they sustain this fabrication of ‘misogynist’ long enough voters will believe it. Repeat a lie often enough etc…
you know, I think that when it’s all said and done the Kenyan is going to win in November.
There isn’t a poll that Romney is leading in and his overall performance has been mediocre. Unless there’s some move Romney’s way soon this is the call as far as I’m concerned.
The Kenyan seems to be giving Iran, Egypt, Syria, Libya etc the nod and dissing Bibi. I’m expecting Iran (and perhaps others) to attack Israel before November in which case the incumbent will not be voted out.
Someone on Lateline commending the practice of ‘being anonymous’ on the internet. Cybersafety etc. Yep, I’m with him on that. But not too anonymous. I like to know who I’m talking to a bit.
Funny though, I feel that I ‘know’ all of the regulars on the Cat, and think quite naturally of everybody by their ‘avatar’ (e.g. Gab, Blogstrop, Twostix, MK50, CL, Candy etc.) just as I think of my in-real-life friends by their names. I’ve been away for a week and couldn’t help wondering who was saying what, what I’d missed, who was ‘present’ and who was ‘away’ etc. In a week what a lot of new people are also coming in.
Well, I had a great week in Sydney, seeing old friends and going out a lot. Plenty of shopping (two new handbags, a trench coat, new shoes with a zip-up heel, more lingerie and a hat!). HIA turned up with some diamond earings (surprise xtra birthday present additional to the colorful cow)and swept me off to see South Pacific. Not really our demographic, he commented looking around, but we both loved it. Exceptional performances and staging, world class. Teddy’s singing as the French planter sent shivers all over me and HIA got an arm hugging workout during several of the numbers, especially during Some Enchanted Evening … his favorite, for when we met. Whatta romantic Ape.
The trip to the dentist though was pretty ordinary, except I had laser instead of the drill, and didn’t need an injection. First time ever for that!
you know, I think that when it’s all said and done the Kenyan is going to win in November.
There isn’t a poll that Romney is leading in and his overall performance has been mediocre. Unless there’s some move Romney’s way soon this is the call as far as I’m concerned.
Finally you take the long view. Though by next week, you’ll no doubt change your mind again.
“O, Jews: Khaybar, Khaybar. The army of Mohammed will return,” they chanted evoking a 7th century war in the west of the Arabian Peninsula in which the Muslims are said to have defeated the Jews.
They then launched a second bid to access the compound, prompting police to fire on the crowd, witnesses said.
There’s no long view or short view in this, you dickhead. There’s no major poll or betting market Romney is winning. And yes, if the polls change I’ll change my mind and keep doing so. You have the mental flexibility of a walrus.
Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
Yesterday was a key day — perhaps the day — in the campaign. Convention bounce and the Chicago teachers strike were instantly overshadowed. There was an opportunity to go for the win, and Romney took it. The media noticed, of course, and sprang into such intense, concerted action that it was obvious that they knew it was a day to be won and if the other side was going to go for the win, they had to act quickly and ensure that their guy won the day. Shock and awe, baby. Awesomely awful, indeed.
It’s all based on hope James. Hoping this or that will change direction of the election, but it’s not looking like it will happen.
The Kenyan is worse than Carter by a long stretch, but the big difference between then and now is that the media wasn’t in the can for Carter the way they are now. They certainly despised Reagan, but they were giving Carter a lot of shit too.
And people are thinking the debates will change things for the better. But the debate can also make it worse for Romney if he’s seen s fucking up and any little error or misquote etc will be used against him.
Too true, DB and CL, you sensible men. I am all for the unitive power of loving sex between a man and a woman as the bedrock of family life. And me a card-carrying non-believer too. You don’t have to be a Catholic to know this as a fundamental human truth (to gainsay those who will otherwise see this as just two ‘theologians’ at work).
It being R-U-OK Day, a reporter asked her to comment on depression/R-U-OK Day and the concocted Abbott drama:
…and there will be women today who will be approached by a colleague who will say to them “Are you okay?” and they will have a story to tell about being intimidated by some man who has the wrong attitude
I ask you what sort of man can or cannot remember punching a wall beside the head of a woman? Those of you who’ve been sitting in the gallery, watching what’s been going on, for the last two years of this government, would have plenty of evidence of the same kind of physical and verbal intimidation that is still very much a part of the the rhetoric and the practical action of this man who thinks he’s good enough to be the Prime Minister of Australia…
“Yeah, ask any Zambian – they’re using IVF these days.”
Non sequitur of the week.
Just as we enjoyed your cluelessness about what an ad hominem is, Jarrah, we now see that you don’t know what a non sequitur is either.
You 1) altered what Monty said to rebut a more convenient proposition; and 2) agreed that human sexual reproduction (that is, planet-wide) is now unnecessary – whereas the alternative is in fact practiced by, and available to, an absurdly small number of mostly white Westerners. In doing so, you advertise the fact that, even as a sentient adult, you don’t know what sexuality is or achieves.
By reference to Zambia, I was illustrating the idiocy of your knee-jerk Monty bro-love. As if that partnership wasn’t destined for Epic Fail, you compound the embarrassment by indulging in a menage a trois with puzzled fish fate seeker Steve from Brisbane – by broad agreement, the site’s stupidest commenter.
Note that these lefties have now been effortlessly run full circle by me to transmogrify their pseudo-hip subjectivism into a version of extremist Carthusianism.
I did it as easily Robert de Niro ambushed Sean Bean with a cup of coffee in Ronin.
A longtime professor and one-time interim dean of the University of Chicago Law School told The Daily Caller that Barack Obama was never offered tenure, despite the assertions of a New York Times reporter who covers the president and the first family.
“Other faculty members dreamed of tenured positions; [Obama] turned them down,” wrote Times White House Correspondent Jodi Kantor, author of “The Obamas,” in a July 30, 2008 profile of the president’s twelve years as a lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School.
And yet, according to longtime University of Chicago law professor Richard Epstein, Obama was never actually offered a tenured faculty position.
“I have no idea where Jodi got her story” about the tenure offer, said Epstein, adding that he immediately wrote Kantor to tell her she was wrong. Epstein was, then, a member of the faculty, not the school’s dean
Obama was a lecturer and then a senior lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School beginning in 1992, and ending in 2004 when he ran for the U.S. Senate.
“When we hired Obama, we didn’t think we’d be hiring a future president of the United States,” Epstein recalled during a separate phone interview. Obama was given a “senior lecturer” position, Epstein said, but “[we] were trying to do right by Mr. Obama.”
Obama taught one two-hour seminar each semester and had no scholarly publications, Epstein said, noting what he called a lack of interest on the future president’s part. He saw Obama as having one eye fixed on academia and the other on politics.
Professor John Yoo of the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, who was a visiting professor on the University of Chicago campus in the fall of 2003 while Obama was employed there, never recalls seeing Obama, though his office was across the hall.
By reference to Zambia, I was illustrating the idiocy of your knee-jerk Monty bro-love. As if that partnership wasn’t destined for Epic Fail, you compound the embarrassment by indulging in a menage a trois with puzzled fish fate seeker Steve from Brisbane – by broad agreement, the site’s stupidest commenter.
The Obama Democrats are no longer the party of FDR, Truman, JFK or Clinton. All were combative partisans, but their view of the American system was fundamentally positive. The older Democratic Party grew out of the American labor experience of the early 20th century, which recognized its inevitable ties to the private sector. The systemically alienated Obama party more resembles the ancient anticapitalist syndicalist movements of continental Europe.
Seriously, should this be a chargeable offense? Let there not be any confusion that I think badly of the muzzie punk.
A MELBOURNE man charged with collecting magazines created by al-Qa’ida allegedly held a copy which touted the Sydney Opera House as a potential terrorist target.
Adnan Karabegovic, 23, appeared in the Melbourne Magistrates Court this afternoon after his arrest yesterday in a joint anti-terror operation run by Victorian and federal police.
Mr Karabegovic spent much of today in hospital after complaining of abdominal pain, before police finally charged him with four counts of collecting al-Qa’ida’s English language magazine Inspire while knowing the publication promoted terrorism.
Police allege he collected four copies of Inspire, including the first edition and the sixth, which uses a picture of the Opera House to illustrate a section that aims to educate English-speaking terrorists on bomb-making and use of the AK-47 automatic rifle.
Soldier of Fortune magazine also talked bout how to kill someone and how to use guns etc.
GREENS senator Lee Rhiannon peddled conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks years after al-Qa’ida leaders – including Osama bin Laden – had claimed responsibility.
“Since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the USA, we have been subjected to a propaganda bombardment such as no other that I can recall,” the then member of the NSW parliament told a meeting outside Byron Bay in October 2009 in a speech still available on her website.
“We were told that our governments had incontrovertible evidence that Osama bin Laden, holed up in an Afghanistan cave, had ordered the attacks.
“But no such evidence was produced. What the public have been subjected to is a patchwork of a few facts, propaganda, prejudice and conjecture.”
Five years before, in a video broadcast on al-Jazeera, bin Laden declared he had decided “we should destroy towers in America” because “we are a free people … and we want to regain the freedom of our nation”.
In March 2007 his henchman, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, said al-Qa’ida was behind the attacks on New York and Washington.
“I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z,” he said at a closed hearing at the military prison at Guantanamo Bay.
Mohammed also claimed responsibility for the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre, as well as the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 88 Australians.
Liberal senator Arthur Sinodinos, who first raised the issue of Senator Rhiannon’s association with 9/11 “truthers” who claim other forces, including Israeli, were complicit in the attacks, was unsurprised by the speech.
“She seems to have been willing to have had meetings with people who were peddling these kinds of theories even after it had been officially acknowledged who caused the 9/11 attacks,” Senator Sinodinos said.
Firstly monty says that parents who greive cannot be punished anymore.
This is emotional pap. Sure they can. You can send them to gaol. On top of any grieving they do.
If people couldn’t be punished anymore for negligence other than grief, we wouldn’t have criminal negligence, let alone the tort of negligence.
Steve C then says I can’t be sure if just punishing negligence will work. Yes it can. You align the disincentive to the correct “price”. This is why theft has a gaol term of a fine to 2 years as a summary offence and as an indictable offence has five-seven-ten years depending on severity and murder is 25 years to life imprisonment. Some places even give the death penalty for murder.
Jarrah for some reason infers that punishing people doesn’t have a deterrent effect. Why do pool regs have fines then, Jarrah?
sfdc, supporter of crank Keynesian economics (remember, gentlefolk, Governments can borrow whatever the hell they like because “markets are large”, despite the US, German and Argentine currency all collapsing at least once in history) and the ALP, the party of mutli million dollar fraud against workers and home to child molesters like Orkopoulous, chimes in, like the dullard that he is, that the opinion that people ought to look after their own kids (held by people in the LDP, such as myself) is unpopular, dumb and whacky – despite a SMH poll (of all places, the epitome of smarmy inner city leftism) showing that it is the majority view and that the property owner has contributory negligence (which they probably do in most places).
Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
Are you having a fit, Dot?
Unlike C.L., I think hetero sex between consenting adults ought to be encouraged, not to boost child rearing, but to save society from the sickos in the Australian Labor Party. Maybe to save them from themselves.
Do you have a position on the ALP, given the predilicton of its members to perform illegal acts with children? You have to admit it attracts creeps and is an outlier amongst political parties.
The fact of the matter is the whole party is unfit for office until they purge themselves of child abusers.
Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
One of the more hilarious things about CL’s flowery psalm is that it is also an argument for children in a SSM. After all, if the diad is experiencing that unitive power in simpatico (i.e. they’re rooting), it doesn’t matter what gender the two partners are, their child-rearing family life is undergirded according to that gospel.
Over many years there has been a lot of voiced concern in this country about child protection. While that’s good, it has taken on at times a shrillness and crusading character at odds with the avoidance of the female genital mutilation issue.
As Tim Blair points out in a “no comments please” post today, it has been 18 years since the legislation passed, and we are now seeing only the first prosecution.
At the same time, Andrew Bolt observes that in view of the continuing pattern of a certain religion taking a set against the police, who are just doing what they should in raiding the ” small minority of misunderstanders” again, perhaps we should not be taking them as immigrants so readily. Nanny Roxon was chuffed to announce last night a thousand from Syria, another well integrated middle eastern polity.
May I submit that children are best protected by a healthy family environment and society, and that our society is being white anted by political correctness followed by the utterly predictable consequences of it. It is akin to robbing yourself of every protection against infection and invasion. We no longer even insist that citizens speak the language, let alone assimilate.
They’re not dropping the BS either. Endlessly repeating the ‘scoop’ every ten minutes. This is what happens when you allow yourself to be interviewed by low rent idiotic breakfast television hosts masquerading as journalists.
Abbott stuffed up though by not pointing out the idiocy of the “I didn’t see it happen…..so I’am a witness” statement.
Remember the revelation in June that the Labor government had a “dirt unit” that’s “looking for shit on Labor’s opponents”, salaciously reported by all media including the ABC? So what’s the media’s reaction when the dirt unit starts behaving unethically? Enthusiastic Labor supporters, including one of Canberra’s longest-serving hacks, start volunteering to help. Yes, folks, stuff that was inconceivable even five years ago is really happening in Australia in 2012.
The left never sleeps, thanks Jannie for that catch-cry.
The ABC this morning has two major preoccupations. The Abbott story, that they absolutely love to bits.
Then there’s the endless attention given to the processing of illegals on Nauru, which they are already saying isn’t going to work. Of course it won’t work, given that it is incomplete and done without conviction of any sort, and importantly no TPVs.
Richard Adey standing in for Frabjous Fran on RN breakfast studiously avoided mention of TPVs, then got Alison Carabine to interview at length a youth who was going to keep trying (tried twice before) to get to Australia by boat even though it’s dangerous.
The left will not ever admit to any bias, nor will they stop white-anting Australia.
I’ll enjoy whipping you around the park over this one.
Bolta notesall the time he is conservative so people can judge his opinions. The legion of Lefty trolls who vote Labor/Greens in the Stenographers Guild do not do the same.
Greg Sheridan stated clearly in his defence he had a personal friendship with Tony Abbott. At no time do the legion of Lefty trolls who vote Labor/Greens in the Stenographers Guild.
e.g. 1 George Mega is the ex-husband of the Qld Labor Opp leader, does he note that when he comments on Qld gov?
2. George Mega & The Gitt have has been asked to contribute to policy by Rudd/Gillard Labor, does he note that when making a comment?
3. PvO wife sits as a chair of an organisation representing illegal immigrants arriving by boats, does PvO declare that when making a comment?
…it has been 18 years since the legislation passed, and we are now seeing only the first prosecution.
I heard interviews about this today and what was striking is the religious leader in charge of the congregation directed the members of his flock to lie to police over the matter.
Can we please have a “Don’t feed the troll day” today?
Seriously folks, it has gone past the point of being funny. Let’s just ignore them for a day because I am sure that even attention starved unemployable fuckwits will eventually get sick of being ignored, and they will stop posting inanity after inanity.
Token: Gerard Henderson’s wife is very pro-migration and says she’s a bit of a “Lefty.”
Chris Uhlmann, who I consider gives softer interviews to the Coalition that it does to the Left, has a Labor wife. (I wish she would put him in the doghouse for some of his soft interviews).
Chris Kenny’s short bio at the Australian merely says he’s “a writer and columnist with The Australian who has worked in newspaper, television and radio journalism, as well as politics and media management, for three decades.” Doesn’t say that he ran for the Liberals.
The backgrounds of writers and reporters is of interest, but it is hardly something that we expect them to put as a disclaimer on every single thing they write or say. Partly because it doesn’t always reflect their own positions.
You basically learn their bias by reading what they write, and you make judgements about their reliability over time, and by comparing what they write with other reports.
Then you stop perpetually whinging about it and how its so unfair.
Hey, if the end result of my taunting Tom, blogstrop and Chunkwart this morning is to get them to stop making such an intense effort on over-the-top personal abuse of someone who comes on an open forum and disagrees with them, so much the better.
TONY Abbott has admitted he was rude to his former political foe Barbara Ramjan, but denies he was ever violent, in his first public interview since it emerged he allegedly punched a wall “inches” from her head during his university days.
The Opposition Leader said the allegations were part of a targeted smear campaign by the Labor party against him. “I’ve been saying to Margie and the kids that they can expect a lot more of this between now and polling day,” Mr Abbott told the Nine Network. But he admitted he was rude to Ms Ramjan after she beat him in university elections, referring to her as “chairthing” rather than chairperson. “A lot of childish and immature things happen on student councils and I think I probably was guilty of using that silly phrase,” he said.
What a despicable creature is Grattan. No witnesses, just hearsay, and “credible” hearsay to boot.
After hearing how generous those payout for Fauxfacts are, it sounds like Grattan, who has around 50 years service with the company, is trying to get herself sacked for creating an unacceptable litigation risk for the organisation.
Abbott holding presser about the abysmal state of Gillard’s mess on border policies. Reporters haven’t asked one question about that but launch an attack into the concocted story about Abbott’s alleged behaviour when he was 19 yo.
‘Alleged’ that’s not a word you hear or see the government stenographers use in relation to this, no they’ve decided, as judge and jury, that he’s guilty as charged.
‘Alleged’ is a word used profusely in relation to Gillard assisting her boyfriend in a fake union slush fund. Even though she admitted to it.
You should hear how these “reporters” are going at Abbott over his student days. If only they had the integrity to do the same to Gillard instead of fawning all over her.
One of the more hilarious things about CL’s flowery psalm is that it is also an argument for children in a SSM.
No, it isn’t since sex between same-sex partners can never produce their own children. It is “One of the more hilarious things” that this has to be pointed out to you though, monty.
As M0nty predicted, the Labor dirt unit in combination with Labor MPs and their lapdogs in the media, the focus has been turned onto Abbott and away from serious fraud in the Trade Union movement.
I do listen to his insights into the workings of the Left even though I find the actions and thought of that combined group disgusting.
I think her take on things is sometimes wrong, but she is basically cautious and more or less balanced when you take into account that the journalism profession is just “naturally” always going to attract more people with a bit of bias towards the left.
To rant and rave about that all the time would be similar to freaking out every day that there seem to be an unusually large number of gay men serving you meals on airlines.
THIS week the Gillard government was given a glimpse into its political future in Sydney – and it’s as grim as it gets.
It was an image that has been quarantined from public debate because of the equally bleak outlook for the government’s perfidious bed-fellows, the Greens.
Deluded Labor MPs and their cheer squads have been out celebrating the diminishing fortunes of the minority party – all to divert attention away from the real problem.
The only bloke brave enough to challenge it so far, ironic given he is from the left, has been the outspoken Senator Doug Cameron. He summed the situation up in typically eloquent style when describing his experience last Saturday manning a Labor booth in Sydney’s west: “It really is a problem for Labor when you’ve got blue collar workers with the arse out of their pants taking Liberal how-to-vote cards and voting Liberal.”
‘If we squeeze our eyes shut and don’t talk about it, it will all go away’. Aided and abetted by the government stenographers, naturally. Or perhaps they think Gillard’s gag order applies to them.
Now now, Candy. We can’t be too harsh on her due to her age, I mean SFB denigrates scientists and commentators – who don’t ‘believe’ in the climate alarmism being manufactured – due to their age. He’s an ageist but we don’t need to be like him.
No hyperventilating yet from Steve about the Fed’s announcements overnight. Great news for those of us in favour of nominal GDP level targeting. The recession may have already begun, but at least the Fed is now on the right path for next time.
As Tim Blair points out in a “no comments please” post today, it has been 18 years since the legislation passed, and we are now seeing only the first prosecution.
These sorts of cases when reported absolutely need to be prosecuted strongly with long sentences if found guilty and very publicly too as a deterrent to others. Hopefully with a lot of publicity we’d see other victims realise what they have had done to them is not acceptable or legal.
My understanding from reports is that the authorities discovered it only because a friend/relative reported them. Given the age of the victims its not surprising that the reports are fairly rare – young children are unlikely to inform on their parents especially if they don’t know any better. Given the legislation has been around now for 18 years, perhaps we’ll start see victims now as adults and having left home reporting incidents that occurred when they were children, though its still going to take quite a bit of courage for someone to report their own parents.
At the same time, Andrew Bolt observes that in view of the continuing pattern of a certain religion taking a set against the police, who are just doing what they should in raiding the ” small minority of misunderstanders” again, perhaps we should not be taking them as immigrants so readily.
Their religion is hardly unique in having problems with religious leaders complicit in child abuse. Wasn’t there a landmark case recently where for the first time in Australia a religious leader has been charged not with child abuse directly, but covering up child sex abuse?
I’m tipping all this will help that union thug in his defamation case against Abbott.
There’s certainly now a lot of targets out there with money if Abbott believes he can win a defamation case against his accusers. I still don’t think we’re going to see him initiate one though, because as he admits a lot of childish behaviour occurred back then and he doesn’t want that brought into the public light. Neither do I think its particularly fair to judge someone by their university political behaviour 30 years ago.
Their religion is hardly unique in having problems with religious leaders complicit in child abuse.
Pru Goward noted today it is not only Muslims from North Africa that practice this barbarity, though most victims comes from that background.
She also noted that the woman’s hospital in Vic keeps stats on the # of grown women who come through that have been mutilated and it is in the hundreds.
She noted that an education on Australian values is critical if the message is to get out this barbaric child abuse will not be tolerated in Australia.
The attack in Libya was well planned and executed. It wasn’t about a spontaneous protest against some ridiculous internet movie of Muhammad. The assailants came armed to the teeth, with among other things, RPG 7s. They knew that the US Ambassador was in Benghazi rather than Tripoli. They knew how to track his movements, and were able to strike against him after he and his colleagues left the consulate building and tried to flee in a car. As Israel Channel 2′s Arab Affairs Correspondent Ehud Yaari noted this evening, you don’t often see well trained terrorists participating in protests of movies.
Then there is the attack in Cairo. They were led by Mohammad Zawahiri – Ayman Zawahiri’s brother. According the Thomas Josclyn in the Weekly Standard, the US media has been idiotically presenting him as some sort of moderate despite the fact that in an interview with Al Jazeerah he said said, “We in al Qaeda…”
Egypt’s US supported Muslim Brotherhood President Mohamed Morsi recently released Zawahiri from Egyptian prison. The same Barack Obama who has no time in his schedule to meet with Prime Minister Netanyahu next week in New York, is scheduled to meet Morsi.
The Egyptian government has not condemned the attack on the US Embassy in Cairo. But Morsi is demanding that the US government prosecute the film’s creator.
Of course Abbott wouldn’t take defamation proceedings on something like this. Defamation is a rich person’s game, and generally only pursued in clear cases where you know you’d win. When it’s her word against his, you just wouldn’t risk it. And it is not likely to be highly influential politically anyway.
Moreover, at about the same time Romney was speaking, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (after a day of fuming about the Cairo embassy’s decision to jump the gun) was saying essentially the same thing — and making sure to repudiate the Cairo apology:
I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack. . . .
Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind
So what exactly was the problem? As far as we can see, Romney, the Near East desk and Clinton were in sync. Ah, but where was the president? He apparently had gone to bed and so the day passed without comment from him.
Wasn’t there a landmark case recently where for the first time in Australia a religious leader has been charged not with child abuse directly, but covering up child sex abuse?
The Government ought to be careful here. Misprison of felony is no longer a crime and this is a good thing.
What matters is establishing a conspiracy or concealment.
However, if we apply the same standards, why aren’t Gillard, Shorten and Conroy in gaol?
Yes Stepford, Romney will boot uncle Ben and the Romster will give the tea party its gold commission. Romster will then appoint someone with similar cred as Uncle Ben and the gold commission will hand the administration periodic papers supportive of a gold standard that will be ignored and possibly left unread.
It’s bullshit. The idea that Romster has suddenly taken a liking to a gold standard makes me giggle.
In any event Ben ought to be fired, but not for the reasons you think. Under his watch the Fed ran one of the tightest, harshest monetary policies we’ve ever seen in our generation and he and the board were primarily responsible for the crash and the level of unemployment we’ve seen. Furthermore he was too slow to react to the Fed’s mistake.
Around one third of the world’s fish catch is “rendered”. Rendering means that small fish are boiled in an energy intensive process to produce fish meal and fish oil, which is increasingly used by the aquaculture industry. It takes 4.5 kg of fresh fish to produce 1 kg of meal, and 20 kg of fresh fish to produce 1 kg of fish oil.
I was not sure whether all or some of the fish were for direct human consumption, particularly when one of the species mentioned was “redbait”.
Shorter JC: yes, I agree, the Tea Party have silly economic ideas that Republican politicians who know better have to at least give lip service. But I am still happy for a Tea Party influenced bunch of politicians to take the economic reins.
Actually JC the US should temporarily take on gold, at least to force budgetary discipline.
Then they should privatise currency and banking clearinghouse activity.
They also then should dismantle the semi socialist, corporatist structure of their mortgage market. It is a ticking timebomb. Another GFC can happen. The whole thing is batshit crazy and neither Lenin or Mises would approve of the sheer loopiness of the system.
Steve fb, according to seafish Tasmania “None of the catch will be used to produce fishmeal”. They have that on their FAQ. I guess they are sensitive about that for the reasons you identified. They have said the whole catch is for human consumption.
Can someone give me a plot synopsis of “The Innocence of bin Laden”? Wiki is in coward mode so I can’t readily find out.
Remember, the Message also caused riots. It was pro moderate Islam and ecumenical. I had to watch it it in catholic high school. No reasonable person could possibly believe it could cause a riot.
I agree with nearly everything the Tea party stands for except this, or at least those that do push for a gold standard and tighter monetary policy.
If this is the only crack you see light in terms of the differences between me and the tea party then hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha you’re an idiot.
Pru Goward noted today it is not only Muslims from North Africa that practice this barbarity, though most victims comes from that background.
Yes, although more common in Muslim communities it also occurs in Christian communities in Africa. At least over there it appears to be a cultural as well as religious tradition. Though I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that a cultural tradition will be any easier to change than a religious one. In Australia the approach would be pretty much the same – education of the community and medical professionals should be aware and I think would be obligated to report cases) and strong enforcement of the law.
Europe’s leftwing media, such as the BBC, are trying to bury the fact that the Green Left lost 7 of its 10 seats in the Dutch national election at the weekend (scroll down to the state of the parties at the link).
Of course, there’s nothing to worry about in Australia. Reports of suffering caused by the air tax are just a beat-up and Lee Rhiannon (who’s never actually seen a tree, but is willing to declare she likes them if necessary) will soon be installed as Greens leader*. We love you, Lee; you’re the best. Please go ahead and knife Tubbsy for the good of the nation and the stability of your great party.
From Schiff a few weeks ago. Why the Ryan plan won’t work and why it will dominate monetary policy ala the Mundell Fleming model.
Note that Schiffy boy and I still think Ryan’s plan is far, far superior to the Obummer’s.
If enacted today, the Ryan budget would so drastically upend the fiscal picture that the U.S. federal budget would come into balance in just… wait for it…. 27 years! This is because the Ryan budget doesn’t actually cut anything. At no point in Ryan’s decades long budget timeline does he ever suggest that the government spend less than it had the year before. He doesn’t touch a penny in current Social Security or Medicare outlays, nor in the bloated defense budget. His apocalypse inducing departure comes from trying to limit the rate of increase in federal spending to “just” 3.1% annually. This is below the 4.3% rate of increase that is currently baked into the budget, and farther below what we would likely see if Obama’s priorities were adopted.
Because there are no actual cuts in his budget, Ryan hopes that fiscal balance can be restored by 2040 only because he assumes that we achieve returns to the annual economic growth that are equal to levels averaged for much of the last century. In other words, he sees slow growth of the last four years as the aberration, not the new normal. As with all other government projections, this is on the extreme optimistic end of the spectrum. In truth, there is nothing on the horizon that should make anyone think these growth figures will be achieved. America’s crushing debt, burdensome regulations, political paralysis, and nagging demographic problems bode poorly for the return to trend line growth anytime soon. More likely, based on the speed towhich republicans will shrink from popular backlash, is that the “cuts” that Ryan proposes will be abandoned as soon as they prove to be politically unpopular.
In fact, among his other overly-optimistic assumptions are that the unemployment rate falls to 4% by 2015 and an unprecedented 2.8% by 2021, another real estate boom begins almost immediately, and there is an average inflation and ten-year treasury rate for the next ten years of 2.04 and 4.15 respectively. These are assumptions that would make even the most rabid economic cheerleaders sit on their pompoms. Despite these pollyannish economic growth and record low unemployment projections, Ryan still assumes interest rates will remain near historic lows and that none of the cheap money showered onto the economy will ever find its way into the CPI. In other words, it’s the economic equivalent of winning the lottery twice in a row while failing to account for the higher taxes that accompany such good fortune.
Like all other government forecasters, Ryan never considers how rising interest costs on the many trillions of dollars of outstanding government debt hold the potential to completely upend budget projections.
More likely, the continued accumulation of unsustainable levels of debt under the Ryan plan will eventually cause our creditors to lose confidence in our ability to repay. It will cause interest to spike, the economy to tank, unemployment to soar, spending to rise, revenues to decline, and the budget deficit to spiral out of control. Rising interest rates hold the potential to spark a sovereign debt and currency crisis that willrender the entire plan irrelevant anyway.
While I appreciate that Ryan has the courage to take a position at the vanguard of his party in the campaign for fiscal responsibility, the modesty of his plan is just the latest reminder of how utterly divorced from reality Washington politicians remain. Like all of his brethren, Ryan is pinning his budget battling plans on the pain free “grow your way out of it plan.” But as long the government consumes so much of the nation’s productivity, the conditions to create that growth will never occur. Hope is not a strategy.
Lotsa lucre to be made artificially on the stock market which will be moved to gold by the same investors when it’s clear the US has inflation and a recession.
Bernake wants to help Obumma.
Isn’t that nice?
If Obumma actually wins then instead of a stimulus it will have been a sugar hit rather than a stimulus and stagflation will become inevitable.
Um, ShitferBrains, where do you think fish oil comes from? Trout Bushes? Tuna Trees? Whale Palms?
And if you’d read your own quote, you would have realised a very simple fact: Rendering fish to make fish meal is energy intensive because fish aren’t made only of fish. They are made of fish and water! So when you get rid of all the fishy water, you end up with dry fish. Ergo, Fish meal!
“Jarrah for some reason infers that punishing people doesn’t have a deterrent effect.”
Inferred from what? I think you meant ‘imply’, and no I didn’t. I was asking a more abstract question about what is better from a policy perspective – reacting after the bad thing happens, or preventing the bad thing. A preference for the latter underpins a great deal of government regulation. Naturally, prevention is unlikely to be total, can get very very expensive, suffers from diminishing returns, etc. So it’s by no means universally preferable. But there are going to be situations when it is.
Small infringements on personal liberty that have a disproportionate benefit in terms of safety are an obvious class of regulations that qualify. The compulsory wearing of seatbelts, for example. Compulsory pool fences are much less likely to fulfil that cost/benefit analysis, and even if they did, intrusive inspections would not.
The love affair between CL, dover and Gab continues apace in this thread, I see. It’s getting rather unseemly. Gab, these arrangements rarely work out well, particularly for the woman.
So why did the killer pick the Cinemark theater? You might think that it was the one closest to the killer’s apartment. Or, that it was the one with the largest audience.
Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned. In Colorado, individuals with permits can carry concealed handgun in most malls, stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. But private businesses can determine whether permit holders can carry guns on their private property.
I was asking a more abstract question about what is better from a policy perspective – reacting after the bad thing happens, or preventing the bad thing.
A properly enforced manslaughter crime is a disincentive before the fact, Jarrah.
We are better off doing this than making up regulations everytime something awful happens when people fail to act responsibly as parents.
All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved.
A strong manslaughter law will be stochastically dominant over some lame building regulation unless that too is rigidly enforced with harsh penalties. Of course it will be wildly inefficient and onerous, and collectively punish people who have never actually endangered their own children – nor anyone else’s.
Please. Stop it with the lame inferred crap. You and Steve C were proven wrong before and are wrong now. Admittedly you made an abstract claim and tried to reach a conclusion based on evidence. You did not make an explicit or assertive claim.
Bloomberg TV reports that Hooters is refreshing it’s image to attract female customers but it won’t change the skimpy attire and large breasted gals wait staff.
Such barbarism deserves no less than deportation of all involved and removal of the child from the ‘culture’ of the perpetrators.
Well, obviously that won’t happen and probably isn’t overall in the child’s best interests, but it’s my first horrified response to this barbaric practice occuring in my country.
“education” is too tame a word to use. These people should be told, NO ENTRY AND NO STAYING, unless this practice is despised and refused, which is the Australian Way. Women who have already had this mutilation should be given MANDATORY counselling and assistance about the necessity to stop it.
Peh. Just like Obama apologises for the atrocities committed against America and bows down to the barbarians in the Middle East of Islamic cult, the stupid soft-headed socialist morons in this country bow down to all things Islam in preference to whatever is left of the Australian norms and way of life.
Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. The truth can have that effect.
Never come across it (FGM) in my practise Lizzie, but having lost my job previously for speaking up in defence of patients rights, would do it again with no worries.
Excellent, Spot.
ShitferBrains, you really should take time out for a holiday. Your devotion to duty and the Labor Way has been commendable. I’ve booked you and Kimberly onto a sea cruise. Good fishing opportunities, and plenty of sea breezes. Destination is a surprise, but here’s a clue: John West.
Their religion is hardly unique in having problems with religious leaders complicit in child abuse. Wasn’t there a landmark case recently where for the first time in Australia a religious leader has been charged not with child abuse directly, but covering up child sex abuse?
Chris, please don’t bother equating kiddy fiddling with FGM and – what next? Perhaps “honour” killings?
The Catholic church set itself up for a fall by not allowing married clergy, but I have no sympathy for any of the perpetrators there or in the Anglican, or any church, cult, or social group of any sort. But don’t try and deflect from or equate the utterly abhorent islamic practices. It diminishes you.
In any universe non-parallel, Obama’s likening of the US’ Middle Eastern dead to his Vegas audience of contemptible schmoozers would have him toast.
It absolutely disgusts me that there are still Americans willing to vote for Obama because he is Young, Cool, Black and HipTM.
it is actually the height of racism to think that Obama has been a good president deserving of re-election – to hold that line you are refusing to hold him to the standards that any other person would be held.
As a completely blank screen, Obama won last time because enough Americans projected on to him their hopes, aspirations and hey-look-at-me-I’m-obviously-not-hung-up-on-race-ness.
This time, if enough want to project on to him their fears and disappointments, he will be toast.
And for his comments overnight, he deserves to be.
chris: At least over there it appears to be a cultural as well as religious tradition.
blogstrop: But don’t try and deflect from or equate the utterly abhorrent islamic practices
OK, so who is correct? I’ve noted lefties spinning the meme that “FGM” or “cutting” is a cultural practice rather than one purely of that mediaeval death cult.
However, I do have one thing to say – start enforcing the laws of this country, you fucking socialist softcocks!
Mutilation of girls in this manner is utterly abhorrent and the perpetrators need to be jailed or deported, no fucking excuses.
I’d argue very strongly that he is in fact, none of the things you’ve cited in your quote.
Rabz, I put that poorly. As I had hoped to imply with the TM, that is the way that Obama was packaged in 08. People bought it. What I meant to say, it is sickening that anyone would still think that way.
Rabz – well cultural traditions have a habit of getting incorporated into religions and religious practices become cultural so sometimes you can’t clearly delineate the two anyway.
FGM pre-dates both Christianity and Islam. Not all muslims in Africa perform FGM and there are Christian communities who do. I would not be surprised if some Muslim communities see it intertwined with their religious beliefs though (but there are many Islamic religious leaders who condemn the practice).
It doesn’t really matter whether it is religious or cultural, neither background makes the practice any more acceptable.
Mutilation of girls in this manner is utterly abhorrent and the perpetrators need to be jailed or deported, no fucking excuses.
They certainly need to be prosecuted and publicly punished. IIRC there have been allegations that families have been taking their children to Africa to have FGM performed on them. I don’t know if the laws currently extend to acts overseas by Australians (like happens with child sex abuse for example), but if not, should certainly be considered.
Jarrah is wrong and refuses to admit it. I demonstrated why he was wrong.
Jarrah also refuses to acknowledge that the deterrence effect for crimes can simply be dialed up to get a desired effect. He then goes onto say the question is open ended and empirical – which is analogous to what I am saying.
From there, he believes he has proven that pool fencing regulations are always better than strict criminal negligence laws.
there are still Americans willing to vote for obongo because he is Young, Cool, Black and Hip™
IMO, the election will be decided by a large group of middle-class whites regretting they voted for him in 2008. The polls probably won’t predict the swing because the swingers don’t want to be branded waaaayyycist and won’t tell anyone, let alone pollsters.
He has a way with words, that Nigel Farage: the top income tax of rate of 75 percent that it is being introduced by France’s new president, the blandly thuggish François Hollande, is, says UKIP’s leader, a “hate tax for the successful”.
Can you imagine David Cameron saying something like that?
Suttee, the burning of widows, was a ‘cultural thing’ too. So are ‘honour’ killings of women and girls. The Nazis thought it was ‘culturally’ appropriate to throw people into gas ovens. Slavery was, and still is, a ‘cultural’ thing. Aboriginal squalor and child abuse in the NT is also ‘cultural’.
You can argue the small stuff, but ‘culture’ is NEVER a reason to drop standards of basic civilisation. Never. Piss off Germaine, I always suspected you were something of a fool, and now you have proven it.
What I meant to say, it is sickening that anyone would still think that way.
James – not having a go. It’s more a visceral reaction to the fact that anyone would be stupid enough to buy any of those myths at all, evah, let alone now.
That and the fact that I hate the lying, lobotomised ignorant incompetent commie shithead with an undying passion.
dot, are you arguing that the mother who lost sight of her kid for a short time is the one who should be being charged with a criminal manslaughter, rather than the neighbour who had dilapidated pool fencing which clearly would not comply with regulations?
Jarrah also refuses to acknowledge that the deterrence effect for crimes can simply be dialed up to get a desired effect. He then goes onto say the question is open ended and empirical – which is analogous to what I am saying.
So take your typical imperfect parent who loves their children very much and doesn’t want to see any harm come to them. Most likely if they were given a choice they’d willingly die if it meant their child would live instead of dying.
You want to stop them from doing something. On one hand you can threaten to kill their child if they don’t comply. What sort of punishment are you proposing that would be a greater deterrent than that?
Just as the Hispanic Zimmerman was relabelled a White-Hispanic for having a parent of non-hispanic background, all people who are culturally sensitive should ensure the mixed culture Obama is referred to as a White-Black.
He has a way with words, that Nigel Farage: the top income tax of rate of 75 percent that it is being introduced by France’s new president, the blandly thuggish François Hollande, is, says UKIP’s leader, a “hate tax for the successful”.
WASHINGTON—Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.
You want to stop them from doing something. On one hand you can threaten to kill their child if they don’t comply. What sort of punishment are you proposing that would be a greater deterrent than that?
You are a full spectrum bullshit artist.
If they negligently cause their children’s death, regardless or not of following a OH&S directive, charge them with manslaughter.
You compare this with actually killing their children for not having pool fencing.
Bullshit. He identifies as ‘black’ because it’s given him unobstructed access to a multitude of privileges denied to designated non-victims – education and employment being two examples.
Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.
That’s becuase they’re not deranged, nor do they belong to a barbaric ‘religion’.
A properly enforced manslaughter crime is a disincentive before the fact, Jarrah.
I’m sure people who lose a child through drowning through misattention are thinkin about the consequences of a potential manslaughter charge at the time. Deterrence works when the crime is pre-meditated.
“Oh I better fix my pool fence or I might get charged with manslaughter”
CL, it has widely noted, by everyone from Tony Abbott to the present Pope, that there has been a disproportionate number of gay men in seminaries for quite a while.
While the conservative take on this as being at the heart of the Catholic Church abuse problem is way, way, over-simplistic (to put it mildly), even if one assumes it is correct, surely the way to “de-gay” seminaries would be open up the priesthood to marriage, so that heterosexuals will not be dissuaded from going into the priesthood at the cost of having a sex life.
“I better keep my eyes on my kids lest I be shit parent and be responsible for their death and punished by society”
Precisely how it works.
Unless you are saying that negligence cannot be deterred – well done, you’ve argued against the whole OH&S edifice. I suppose now you would like to see it dismantled?
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
The clinical definition of pedophilia does not refer to gender, merely age. Stop lying, CL.
The church accepted them, trained them and presented them to the public. Then when the church found out about them, the usual practice has been to deny, relocate, cover up and prevent litigation exposure.
The church’s current purge of homosexual priests is a complete denial of responsibility. No surprise that you’re running the Pell line, CL. The church created the conditions for abuse by building up priests as paragons of celibate virtue, and they continue to make the same mistakes. No wonder the church is less and less popular than ever.
“Jarrah also refuses to acknowledge that the deterrence effect for crimes can simply be dialed up to get a desired effect.”
Because it’s ludicrous. If that were true, then there would be no murder in places where that attracts the death penalty.
“He then goes onto say the question is open ended and empirical – which is analogous to what I am saying.”
So why are you saying you proved me wrong, if we agree?
“From there, he believes he has proven that pool fencing regulations are always better than strict criminal negligence laws.”
Stop lying. I never did that. I explicitly said pool fencing regulations were “much less likely to fulfil that cost/benefit analysis”. You’re the one saying – without a shred of proof, or evidence of having done such a CBA – that jailing grieving parents is always better than making it harder for kids to fall into pools in the first place.
Remind me not to rescue teenagers from machete-wielding maniacs if the occasion ever arises.
I’ve just finished a wonderful book called “Wild Colonial Boys” following the escapades of the dozens of bush rangers who operated with total imputinity for years out in the NSW south west.
One of the things I couldn’t understand was that why after robbing hundreds of people, sometimes rounding up entire towns, none of their victims ever just shot them.
As it turns out it was a fear of largely the same thing: private individuals couldn’t shoot at somebody until they had been fired upon themselves and even then if they did so it was a gamble as to whether they would they could find themselves up on serious charges or not.
And so for about 15 years in NSW a totally (by force of law) defenceless citizenry found itself completely at the mercy of a group of organised criminals until the police finally had the presence and ability to stop them.
The church accepted them, trained them and presented them to the public. Then when the church found out about them, the usual practice has been to deny, relocate, cover up and prevent litigation exposure.
David Warren:
What I do know is that the Church in North America is paying grievously today for her concessions to “liberal” pressure in past decades, and especially for having bought into the hippie-trip idea that a man who has shown tendencies to child molestation can be “cured” by psychological counselling. For that was the “compassionate” idiocy behind the quiet re-assignments of problem priests in the 1960s, ’70s, and ’80s.
The idea that the Church should solve her problems today by taking the latest advice from the Zeitgeist is beyond the fatuous. What she has in fact been learning, the hard way, is not to make accommodations to the ways of the world. Instead she must stand rigidly by both letter and spirit of her own inhuman (because divinely appointed) tradition and laws.
That every Catholic will feel shame in the exposure of a failed priest could go without saying; perhaps it has now been said too much. The sins of our Fathers are identical with the sins that are epidemic throughout our society, and let me estimate that there are, as I write, more than a million laptops in North America with child pornography saved to folders. It does not follow that the Catholic Church alone needs cleaning up.
Oh IT, go and experience the unitive power of the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth, will ya.
The clinical definition of pedophilia does not refer to gender, merely age.
Right.
?
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most victims were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
We also know that proteant clergy commit the same amount of abuse (NYT), that Catholic priests commit no more abuse than any other men (Newsweek), and that the worst sexual abuse of children occurs in atheist state institutions (CBS).
As usual, CL has no way to conduct any sort of logical argument, so he repeats his opening gambit of lies, and links to a bunch of unreliable surveys and guesstimations.
Catholic priests committing sexual abuse against boys is still pedophilia, clinically understood. Stop lying, CL. Always with the lying. You’re lying to help perpetuate an organisation’s practices to cover up pedophiles in its own ranks. You are a disgrace.
Note monty continues to deny his beliefs. It’s also interesting that when an atrocity is committed in the name of Allah and the religion of peace, Monty goes full metal jacket on the Catholic Church.
The term ‘pedophilia’ has no exact meaning. It was in fact invented by NAMBLA types who wanted the act of sexually molesting boys to sound somehow more respectable and highbrow.
But of course you can’t put lipstick on a pig and make it a swan. ‘Pedophilia’ soon became the easy word for all of us to use to decribe sexual molestion of children.
This means that even though pedo philia seems to have a meaning which refers to a psychological need to sexually asssault children, it is really now just a description of the act itself, as far as common usage is concerned.
Therefore, any adult molesting a child under the age of consent is a pedophile.
If the abuse is homosexual, then the term that is correct is ‘pederast.’
“Next you’ll be attacking me for not confirming water is wet.”
Well, you SHOULD be condemned for this blatant failure to acknowledge the truth of the matter. That you have wilfully and persistently avoided the self-evident facts is proof of your intellectual dishonesty and strident partisanship.
Well, you SHOULD be condemned for this blatant failure to acknowledge the truth of the matter. That you have wilfully and persistently avoided the self-evident facts is proof of your intellectual dishonesty and strident partisanship.
I understand where you’re coming from, Jarrah, but from where I stand the science is just not settled.
See? When it comes from the left ‘it’s a joke’ but when it is alleged to come from the right “it’s serious and disgusting” etc etc moral outrage ad infinitum.
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty varies). The prepubescent child must be at least five years younger than the adolescent before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.
monty, can we see the evidence that indicates that the those 13 years of age or younger are not a small minority of the victims of child sex abuse involving the Church? Failing that, an apology to CL would be in order.
monty, can we see the evidence that indicates that the those 13 years of age or younger are not a small minority of the victims of child sex abuse involving the Church?
You are applying a restriction that the definition you quoted does not support. The definition does not require the victim to be 13 or younger. Don’t bullshit me, db.
“Hey Jarrah, we know you are ignoring the other threads”
No-one has responded to the substance my latest broadside, as far as I can see. Ironically, it was to point out that you (among others) were ignoring the facts. Unable to deal with reality, you retreated to insult.
“Don’t get on your high hors and lecture people here about “partisan””
Time to recalibrate your sarcasm meter, if you couldn’t pick up on mine.
You are applying a restriction that the definition you quoted does not support. The definition does not require the victim to be 13 or younger. Don’t bullshit me, db.
I’ll embolden it for you this time, monty:
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty varies). The prepubescent child must be at least five years younger than the adolescent before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia.
What portion, then, of those abused had yet to experience puberty?
I’ll, also, remind the reader of monty’s earlier comment: The clinical definition of pedophilia does not refer to gender, merely age.
Now, it appears, it does not even refer to age, so far as monty is concerned.
Almost everything every government, including the current one, does will be opposed by an unelected bureaucracy intent on imposing a ludicrous set of “human rights” rules requiring the removal of all disincentives for illegal immigrants:
She said the Commission was also unconvinced that the tent accommodation and facilities on Nauru will be adequate to deal with the range of contingencies that can be expected to arise ranging from the weather and temperature variations through to the needs of women and children, or the needs of those who have experienced torture and trauma.
“It’s essential that a pre-transfer risk and vulnerability assessment be conducted for each individual, and that these consider the specific circumstances and vulnerabilities of each and every individual, in light of Australia’s international obligations,” she said.
“We’ve had no indication that such assessments have been performed on those transferred today and call on the Government to conduct such assessments prior to the transfer of any further asylum seekers.”
Be prepare to wage years of a war of semantics with the extreme left in the bureaucracy whoever is in power.
Twenty-eight percent of 9.84 million households can neither pay off the principal and interest of their debt nor make ends meet with their current income, according to a study.
You utter moron, Malevolent. It is mOnty who is calling out conservative Catholic CL and his sidekick Medieval Man for continually stamping their feet that the focus on Catholic scandal is so unfair.
See? When it comes from the left ‘it’s a joke’ but when it is alleged to come from the right “it’s serious and disgusting” etc etc moral outrage ad infinitum.
Reminds me of those Abbott posters in Plibeserk’s office
What does that matter a tinker’s cuss, honestly? Is it not still a crime? What difference does it make?
It matters only to the extent that he referred to the clinical definition and you accused him of lying about it. Now, apologize, and we can move on.
d-b fully supports CL-ian handwaving when it comes to Catholic sex abuse scandals.
No, there is no hand-waving. It is appalling. The allegations this week about sex abuse in mental health institutions is also appalling. Apparently, the cause of that is celibate mental health workforuce.
sidekick Medieval Man
I see sfb seems to have blown a gasket. There, there.
Because it’s ludicrous. If that were true, then there would be no murder in places where that attracts the death penalty.
No Jarrah, that isn’t true at all. You have just made an assumption that I didn’t make.
There is a maximum deterrent effect that can be produced – usually the death penalty.
This is obvious – why do I even need to make that qualifier? You are being an obsessively useless pedant. It’s insulting that I’d even need to make such a qualifier.
What is more insulting is being shown this useless fact after monty and chris told me that I couldn’t punish grieving parents anymore, or that charging them with manslaughter was like pre emptively killing their kids.
So why are you saying you proved me wrong, if we agree?
Because I did, and you didn’t understand that you contradicted yourself.
I explicitly said pool fencing regulations were “much less likely to fulfil that cost/benefit analysis”. You’re the one saying – without a shred of proof, or evidence of having done such a CBA – that jailing grieving parents is always better than making it harder for kids to fall into pools in the first place.
But you just said we agreed. I must be right.
Just give up Jarrah. Be a man. Drop the emptive shit “kids falling into pools”.
You are asserting that I am wrong (even though you agree with me LOL), and even if manslaughter carried the death penalty, society would be better off with pool fencing regulations and petty council inspectors fining people for non-compliance.
Because I haven’t done a CBA – dude, your position is just ridiculous.
Have you done a CBA – with your absurd assumptions?
I asked if dot had evidence to back up his his assertion that strong enough penalties would reduce pool drowning because that was not my understanding of how crime deterrence actually works.
Here’s some evidence from the Bureau of crime stats that the assertion is not actually correct. I’m happy to see evidence of the contrary. “Because dot says so”, is not evidence.
Conclusion: The criminal justice system plays a significant role in preventing crime. Some criminal justice variables, however, exert much stronger effects than others. Increasing arrest rates is likely to have the largest impact, followed by increasing the likelihood of receiving a prison sentence. Increasing the length of stay in prison beyond current levels does not appear to impact on the crime rate after accounting for increases in arrest and imprisonment likelihood. Policy makers should focus more attention on strategies that increase the risk of arrest and less on strategies that increase the severity of punishment.
It matters only to the extent that he referred to the clinical definition and you accused him of lying about it. Now, apologize, and we can move on.
CL was making a point about homosexuality, which the clinical definition of pedophilia does not reference. It was a non sequitur. As RL points out, no one in the regular community cares at all whether victims have passed puberty or not, nothing excuses the crime. Why would CL bring it up? He is the one who should be apologising for trying to muddy the waters and not condemning the Catholic church in the strongest terms for harbouring and covering up for sexual abusers.
No one argues that it is the sole cause, d-b. But everyone with common sense can see why it’s likely a contributory cause.
And given the dire lack of new priests coming through, when I’m sure the celibacy is a large part of the reason why, you can stick to your purity on the issue if you want, but you’ll have parishes in 10 years time getting a communion service done by lay people instead of a Mass 3 times a month, instead of having an priest available.
Steve C – you idiot and liar – that study backs up what I said all along – prosecute negligent parents and let the courts decide what the terms of the punishment are.
The maximum penalty for manslaughter is 25 years IIRC (by legislation). Often it gets passed down as a suspended sentence. The fact is very few parents ever get charged with any form of criminal negligence.
The problem in current circumstances is that next to no arrests are made – the punishment couldn’t be any tougher, really.
The fact remains however you can always dial up the punishment (in this instance not necessary) or the arrest rates – currently near zero.
How about that?
We have Monty, Jarrah, Shitferbrains and Steve C on the one thread, and immediately the topic turns to child molestation, the Catholic Church, and anything but the murder of an American Ambassador in a muslim country.
I didn’t see that coming….
The allegations this week about sex abuse in mental health institutions is also appalling. Apparently, the cause of that is celibate mental health workforce.
given the dire lack of new priests coming through, when I’m sure the celibacy is a large part of the reason why, you can stick to your purity on the issue if you want, but you’ll have parishes in 10 years time getting a communion service done by lay people instead of a Mass 3 times a month, instead of having an priest available
Nope. They’ve all been flown in. They’re all got names like Wenceslas or Abasifreke.
The church is a multinational and uses its global pool of labour to fulfil staffing requirements.
No one argues that it is the sole cause, d-b. But everyone with common sense can see why it’s likely a contributory cause.
Why would anyone imagine that celibacy leads to men or women seeking sexual gratification with children? It’s not common sense, at all.
And given the dire lack of new priests coming through
This is a problem for churches with married clergy; so, again, no, your reasoning is poor, as is usually the case.
CL was making a point about homosexuality, which the clinical definition of pedophilia does not reference. It was a non sequitur.
FM. The lengths monty will go to to avoid a simple apology. But you didn’t address any purported non sequitur. And what you asserted was clearly wrong. Just apologize, and we can move on.
Nancy has done some fine digging over at Media Watch Dog to unearth letters written by Ramjen to Honi Soit about the howwible behaviour of Abbott and co shortly after the fabled events.
There’s no mention of the punch in the letters.
Obvious conclusion: it never happened, it’s pure made-up stuff.
What’s more, Ramjan’s story as told to David Marr in 2012 is significantly different from the story she told about the incident in two contemporaneous letters which she wrote to the Sydney University student newspaper Honi Soit in late 1977.
David Marr had a researcher, Rebecca Giggs, who worked on Political Animal. But neither Marr nor Giggs bothered to travel to Sydney University and read the microfiche copies of Honi Soit which are in the Fisher Library. This was due to either negligence or laziness. The existence of such documents is on the public record – since Ramjan’s Honi Soit correspondence was cited in an article written in the Sun-Herald by Kerry-Anne Walsh and Candice Sutton on 18 July 2004. [See Gerard Henderson’s letter to Samantha Maiden in today’s Correspondence section].
Unlike David Marr and some other journalists who have commented on Ramjan’s claim, MWD took the trip to the Fisher Library. Published below are the two letters which Barbara Ramjan wrote to Honi Soit. They were printed on 13 September 1977 and 3 October 1977 respectively. Neither made any reference to any incident where Tony Abbott punched a wall behind Ramjan’s head at Sydney University on the evening of 7 September 1977 – even though both letters are highly critical of the behaviour of Abbott and his supporters during the 1977 SRC election. For the sake of completeness, Tony Abbott’s letter to Honi Soit – dated 27 September 1977 – is also published below along with his letter to Honi Soit on 17 October 1977.
The publication of Barbara Ramjan’s 1977 Honi Soit letters demonstrate that there is no contemporaneous evidence to support the statement she made to David Marr concerning Tony Abbott’s behaviour towards her at Sydney University on 7 September 1977. Absolutely none. Journalists should have been able to work this out for themselves. It’s called research.
No dot, that’s not what you said. You said on a number of occasions that increasing the penalty would reduce pool drownings. if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties You align the disincentive to the correct “price”. This is why theft has a gaol term of a fine to 2 years as a summary offence and as an indictable offence has five-seven-ten years depending on severity and murder is 25 years to life imprisonment. Some places even give the death penalty for murder.
All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved. All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved.
The study I quoted does not back up your assertion. In fact you have no evidence, or you would have produced it by now. Your evidence is limited to “because I said so”
Listening to ALPBC Rural today to find that surprise surprise Jo Ludwig has been getting loads of angry tweets about a super trawler, last year he got loads from farmers about shutting down live export.
Only thing he is not the Australian Jo Ludwig, he hails from USA and designs computer games and makes robots in his spare time. He has to keep asking his Aussie friends what the issues are all about. He sounded a nice guy. Can we swap?
Right, so you agree that just “dialling up” the punishment isn’t, in fact, a solution to the problem. Well done on obliterating your own argument.
“You are asserting that … even if manslaughter carried the death penalty, society would be better off with pool fencing regulations and petty council inspectors fining people for non-compliance.”
Where have I said that? You’re being unusually stupid today. I specifically said inspections would, in my opinion, have more costs than benefits. I specifically said that pool fences are not likely to have more benefits than costs.
“Have you done a CBA – with your absurd assumptions?”
Can’t you read? I spoke about how none had been made. That’s why I couched my POV in terms of uncertainty. You’re the one who’s so gosh-darn sure of yourself, without an actual basis.
Gary Banks is stepping down. The Australian Public Service will be poorer as a result…one of the few independent thinkers around. Lets hope he does not get replaced by one of those common beasts in Canberra – the yes man (or woman)…
The nanny state isn’t just being imposed from above, but enforced from below:
The AFL has reacted with dismay to a Melbourne bayside primary school’s decision to ban ball games in the schoolyard before and after school.
Chief executive Andrew Demetriou said people were being “spooked” by potential litigation in the wake of Black Rock Primary School’s move to restrict the times students could participate in ball sports.
“It’s bloody stupid. I’m sick of hearing these stories about schools banning contact and banning ball sports. Please!” an impassioned Demetriou told Melbourne’s 3AW.
“I spoke at the National Press Club last year and I agree with what [Australian Olympic Committee president] John Coates said during the Olympics – school sport is very important to the health and wellbeing of this country, incredibly important.
“Everyone is being spooked by litigation and insurance, etc, etc.”
The school’s principal, Julie Luiten, defended the move – revealed in the school’s newsletter – saying it was in response to complaints from several parents after a toddler was hit by a ball.
“It’s just for the 15-minute period for the drop-off in the morning, and the pick-up at night, that 15-minute period. We’ve got nearly 600 students at the school. In that time there are about 1000 people in the yard,” Ms Luiten told 3AW.
“And it’s too dangerous to have children kicking and throwing balls. Last week a toddler was hit by a ball.
“In response to our complaints we’ve just banned ball sports for that period.”
This is very funny – ‘extensive research’. Feik is the editor of Quarterly Essay.
“On the contrary, the events described were discovered by the journalist David Marr during his extensive research for `Political Animal: the making of Tony Abbott’,” Chris Feik said in a statement.
The evidence suggests that David Marr did little research for his latest Quarterly Essay. Which explains why it contains virtually no new material. Political Animal is a shoddy, unprofessional piece of work. Which, no doubt, explains why it has engendered such a leftist cheer-squad among the sneering secularists in the ABC and elsewhere.
Nancy has done some fine digging over at Media Watch Dog to unearth letters written by Ramjen to Honi Soit about the howwible behaviour of Abbott and co shortly after the fabled events.
There’s no mention of the punch in the letters.
Obvious conclusion: it never happened, it’s pure made-up stuff.
Good grief.
So Marr didn’t even bother to go check the source material?
I’m labeling “punchgate” the anti slapperslushfundgate.
In contrast to slapperslushfundgate it was immediately jumped on by snarling leftwing journalists only to rapidly find out that it’s based on nothing and day by day we find out how much of nothing that is.
All pushed by rabid, bigoted, anonymous political enemies of Tony Abbott with no evidence at all.
So exactly what the left accused The Australian of doing and the “reason” they gave of why we need a government media censorship board.
- “You can always tell what liberals are up to by what they accuse you of doing.” — Ann Coulter
How about that?
We have Monty, Jarrah, Shitferbrains and Steve C on the one thread, and immediately the topic turns to child molestation, the Catholic Church, and anything but the murder of an American Ambassador in a muslim country.
I didn’t see that coming….
Oh I assure you it’s standard form. It’s because they are, whatitsname, five letters, starts with C, colloquialism for the pudenda.
Oh I assure you it’s standard form. It’s because they are, whatitsname, five letters, starts with C, colloquialism for the pudenda.
I don’t understand the objections. Commenter A made an erroneous statement pertaining to the Catholic religion, commenter CL provided evidence as to why, then commenter monty pops in with another statement that is incorrect so commenter DB puts his considered opinion into the mix and so on and so forth. However what Abu and the mini-brain Stevec are both saying is DB and CL should shut up on the subject but anyone disagreeing with them should keep commenting. Bizarre form of debate.
Honest question Jarrah…do you believe that increasing a penalty has an increased deterrence effect (with respect to diminishing marginal returns) or will you have to “see a study done” to concur?
Maybe you can strike off the relationship between consumer preferences, income and demand until you find a paper on it in the AER.
Well done Jarrah, you’ve graduated from pedantry to reinventing wheels.
Gee, I wonder why prisoners who had girlfriends on the outside take to rooting blokes on the inside.
How you get from the above to, it follows that celibate men or women seek their sexual gratification from children even though adult men and women are easily available, is beyond me.
I think you’ll find the direction of the discussion is down to CL (no suprise there) and Dover Beach.
Really? It was first raised by your fellow leftist, Chris, Steve C.
“Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics,” he wrote.
“…and you decided to lecture me about diminishing marginal returns.”
Acknowledging the problems with prevention isn’t lecturing you, FFS. You’ve really got to read what I write, instead of scanning for key words and responding unthinkingly.
FFS, Sam Maiden makes M0nty look like a fair and balanced reporter:
Gerard Henderson to Samantha Maiden – 13 September 2012
Samantha
I refer to your (somewhat agitated) phone call on Tuesday at around 11 am in response to my column in The Sydney Morning Herald concerning David Marr’s Quarterly Essay Political Animal: The Making of Tony Abbott.
As you will recall, you took particular exception to that part of my column where I wrote:
A reading of Marr’s essay reveals that [Barbara] Ramjan’s claim is based on her memory alone of an event that allegedly took place 35 years ago. There are no witnesses. And there is no contemporaneous record of the occasion – not even in the student press.
You were emphatic that I was wrong in claiming that Barbara Ramjan had spoken to the Sun-Herald in July 2004. When I said I would check my clippings, you replied in words to this effect: “Don’t bother checking, Gerard. You’re wrong.”
As it turned out, I had the relevant file on my desk. You will remember that I read you the relevant section of the article titled “Fellow students recall a champion of the right” – which was written by Kerry-Ann Walsh and Candice Sutton (and published on 18 July 2004), viz:
Barbara Ramjan, now a social worker, who defeated Mr Abbott for the SRC presidency that year, remembers [emphasis added] the night of September 7, 1977 when officer elections were held.
As I pointed out to you, the use of the present tense by Ms Walsh and Ms Sutton clearly indicates that Barbara Ramjan did speak to the Sun-Herald in 2004.
During our conversation, you reacted to my point that there was neither a witness to, nor contemporaneous evidence of, Barbara Ramjan’s claim – as told to David Marr in 2012 – that Tony Abbott had punched a wall behind her in 1977. You said that this material might be in the letters which Ramjan wrote to Honi Soit in late 1977 about the incident. I responded that that David Marr had not quoted from this Honi Soit correspondence in his Quarterly Essay and that no reference had been made to “the punch” allegation when the Honi Soit letters were referred to by the Sun-Herald in its 2004 report.
Since you challenged my comment in the SMH that there is no record in the contemporaneous press about what David Marr called “the punch”, I told you that I look forward to receiving any evidence that you might have with respect to this matter.
Shortly after this, you said you had to go. There was no apology for your error and no explanation for why you felt you had to contact me about what I wrote concerning David Marr – especially since you write for News Limited publications and extracts of Political Animal were published in Fairfax Media newspapers.
For the record, if you do find any evidence about “the punch” I would like to receive it.
Best wishes
Gerard Henderson
Let Punch-gate roll on and the Stenographers continue to out themselves.
2. I never offered the above “as a solution”. it was a general comment which is true. Others said deterrence didn’t matter because of emotive arguments. They were wrong and you agree. I merely showed them that it is a no brainer. Steve then obfuscated with arrests and prosecution – which I said politicians in general were too weak of character to pursue – from the outset.
3. I have consistently applied the argument that A + B = C, even if I wasn’t explicit. I have also consistently said the punishment should be at the discretion of the court and that the punishment cannot be practically increased.
This stitch up is so amazingly shoddy I’m stunned the FauxFacts editors allowed a whiff of it to go in their publications.
And now we see that Samantha Maiden didn’t even know, and in fact disputed the known fact that Ramjan had spoken to the SMH in 2004.
Seriously.
I posted that fact here, emailed it to Bolt, who posted it on his blog, along with a link to the 2004 story about a minute after punchgate went front page.
This is why Newspapers are dying – because 90% the people working for them are absolutely fucking useless. MSM “reporters”: less capable than commenter’s on a blog.
Some time in the next decade we might see one of these fuckwits ask why a celebrity criminal lawyer in Sydney “broke” the story about Abbott on Twitter four weeks ago claiming to have “interviewed” Ramjan twice, and they might even ask how it was that Marr came across the “story”.
Did Ramjan approach him, did the solicitor or did somebody else? Did Marr see the 2004 story? Why didn’t Ramjan mention the “punch in 2004 or mention the punch in the “scathing” letters she wrote to the uni newspaper in 1977. Why, why, why…
Applying criminal negligence or manslaughter in the first place would have been “reactionary”, with tough maximum penalties at the discretion of the court but legislating new laws every couple of years is “preventative”?
This is where you are confusing yourself. You are speaking in general terms and you took objection to me answering a question on such terms before. You can get a strong disincentive effect by dialing up the penalty. Steve C correctly notes the penalty is worthless if the crime is never prosecuted.
You are saying a disincentive in terms of punishment under the rubric of law and economics doesn’t have a preventative effect – or will always be weaker than a regulation with the same desired effect. The fact that a general negligence law properly applied is more efficient has escaped you as well.
You are really quite confused. I never said it will necessarily have a stronger preventative effect, in fact, quite the opposite. I said, and I have consistently said – you can change the preventative effect by dialing up the punishments metred out – if prosecutions take place in the first instance.
I don’t know how I can possibly make this any more simple for you to understand, or how many times I need to repeat myself.
Just read today’s media watch dog. Hendo demolishes and I mean absolutely demolishes, Marr.
At the end of the day, the question to be asked if Ramjan is why did she not mention the assault claims in the Honi Soit article that followed the events of the SRC meeting? They were more significant than the urination and brown eye anecdote by far, if true.
The answer is that it’s freshly fabricated. The ALP shows itself to be brazen and desperate.
Oh and Gab, I was referring to our microcephalic collective above, not you….
“Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics,” he wrote.
Memo to the Dalai Lama:
It is called the natural law tradition in ethics, and it is hardly new.
How did this guy get to be loved by the Stenographers?
Pages 33-34 : At Page 34 Marr claims that, when Abbott worked for the Opposition leader John Hewson in the early 1990s, Hewson “didn’t use Abbott’s speeches”. But at Page 33 Marr criticises Abbott for the content of a speech he wrote to Hewson and which Hewson used. So there you go. Hewson did not use Abbott’s speeches – except when he did.
This is why Newspapers are dying – because 90% the people working for them are absolutely fucking useless.
Many of the MSM journalists still consider themselves an untouchable elite. They haven’t adjusted to the fact that everything they write can now be fact-checked online. Journalists need to be better than they have ever been, but the quality of what we’re getting, for a number of reasons, is now worse than it’s ever been.
d-b, I am reluctant to keep this conversation going, but I can’t believe that you feign ignorance of the fact that some sexually frustrated men will (sometimes) take advantage of what is readily available and able to be manipulated for sex. (See prisons and navies for further details.)
You yourself pointed out that most sexual abuse victims have been post pubescent kids – the fact that a lot have been boys/young men does not necessarily indicate a predominantly homosexual inclination of the perpetrator, but rather an adult male with a immature sexual development, who is prepared to manipulate someone who he perhaps assumes (from memory of his own teenage powerful libido) might not object to sexual activity.
Being free to develop a relationship with a woman, with sex ultimately forming part of it, can be expected to reduce those who might otherwise opportunistically try for sexual outlet with teenagers/young men. (Although, presumably, given the widespread knowledge of the problem there are now significantly fewer times that priests would consider it safe to be alone with teenage boys than used to be the case. It may also be that men being older when entering seminaries may be resulting in priests with more mature sexualities than used to be the case.)
I say “potentially ” temporary because no intervention or treatment results in permanent mental disorder.
Of course.
Well done sfb.(accidental i’m sure)
That’s not quite what I said, jump. Anyone who has read Clive James’ autobiographical books, and learnt even of his recent sex life, would know that some same sex activity in teenage years is far from conclusive evidence of long term homosexual inclination.
Being free to develop a relationship with a woman, with sex ultimately forming part of it, can be expected to reduce those who might otherwise opportunistically try for sexual outlet with teenagers/young me.
An interesting hypothesis, sfb, except that child sex abuse is found in no greater numbers among the celibate clergy than among the married clergy, while it is found in greater numbers among those who are generally promiscuous.
Yes, you are right, this is not rocket science. Your claim has no legs. BTW, I’m not too fussed either way by a celibate or married clergy.
ShitferBrains, you really should take time out for a holiday. Your devotion to duty and the Labor Way has been commendable. I’ve booked you and Kimberly onto a sea cruise. Good fishing opportunities, and plenty of sea breezes. Destination is a surprise, but here’s a clue: John West.
Some homosexuals: almost certainly. Some parents of adult gay men are completely unsurprised, based on the behaviour/interests of their kid from a very early age.
Some “homosexual”: should more properly be called, in terms of sexual response and potential romantic interests, bisexual. Including the likes of Oscar Wilde, who had kids and seemed to have genuine romantic feelings for his wife (if I recall correctly).
I don’t have any confidence in the “born this way” claim. And statements such as “Some parents of adult gay men are completely unsurprised, based on the behaviour/interests of their kid from a very early age” aren’t particularly convincing since a lot can happen during the early development of a child that might end in those children developing same-sex attraction later in life.
People here have just spent two hours sucking the d**k of a leftwing troll who tells us he hates this site and everyone on it, but who can’t believe all the adulation he’s getting. He’s an attention whore and comes here only because people keep giving him what he needs.
“SFB thinks Homosexuality is a (potentially ) temporary mental disorder”
jumpnmcar, homosexuality is attraction to your own sex. Men without women – like in prisons and navies – who turn to whatever is warm and concave are not ‘homosexual’ in that sense. The same as you are not attracted to your hand just because you masturbate.
You’re a troll. Your only purpose in being here is to oppose everything that is said. You hate this site. You’re a government bumboy. You’re freedom’s executioner. Fuck off.
You’re a troll. Your only purpose in being here is to oppose everything that is said. You hate this site. You’re a government bumboy. You’re freedom’s executioner. Fuck off.
Fine, just so ya know, it’s about desire.
Some gays are celibate, just as some hetro are.
If a person is sexually attracted to anything other than a breeding age person of the opposite sex, they are mentally ill.
Even Tesla was celibate but referred to a pigeon as his wife.
Was he ” born that way ” or mentally ill?
I remember how the Left behaved during university elections during the mid 1980s. Liberal candidates had their car tyres slashed. Photocopiers were in short supply, so the Lefties would print their stuff off then pour glue into the machines to stop anyone else printing leaflets. Lefties would roam the campus, tearing down any posters that they hadn’t put up. But if one of theirs was taken down, all hell broke loose.
The student union treasury was raided to fund all their pet causes and activities. Unfortunately for the country, those that learned how to plunder the coffers in their formative years are now running things – and behaving in exactly the same way.
The physical threats against the Libs got so bad that the only people willing to run for student council were beefy military types that could handle themselves if it came to biffo. And of course the biffo was never one on one – it was a pack of lefties attacking a single bloke after dark. There was certainly a bit of violence in my era, but it was all one way. It was mad commies physically attacking anyone to the right of them, which often included moderate Laborites. They’d use any and all means necessary to gain power.
Jarrah
Bullshit.
If you sayin a straight man on a boat for an extended period of time agrees to wank another man off with his asshole is sane, then your definition of sane is wrong.
for what it’s worth my opinion is that homosexuality is a genetic deviation,
but there’s always heteros who are warped due to sexual abuse in upbringing by same gender abuser,
and those perhaps brought up by homosexual parents in a homosexual environment – that’s gotta be an effect from that, even if its just the child thinking they are homosexual to make their carers pleased with them.
“and those perhaps brought up by homosexual parents in a homosexual environment – that’s gotta be an effect from that, even if its just the child thinking they are homosexual to make their carers pleased with them.”
It’s times like these that I’m 95% convinced you’re trolling. Worryingly, there’s that 5% chance…
Until about the 1980s, it was explosively insulting to homosexual controversialists to say that they were ‘born that way.’ They dogmatically insisted they had chosen to be homosexual. There is no scientific evidence for the argument from nature.
Reiterating my earlier points:
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most victims were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
We also know that protestant clergy commit the same amount of abuse, that Catholic priests commit no more abuse than any other men, and that the worst sexual abuse of children occurs in atheist state institutions.
Was talking to a guy at lunch the other day and he was saying that he read some study recently saying that the more boys a woman gives birth to the higher the likelihood that the next male will be gay. He said it was something to do with nature altering the balance because in the end one straight guy can father children with many women. No idea if there is any credibility to what he said but it made for good conversation anyway.
d-b, I agree that the “born this way” is over-used these days, but you certainly get cases of religious families who have no desire at all to see their kids grow up gay, but who can see they aren’t “heteronormative” (to use a recent phrase here) from a very early age.
You might not trust a Mormon family who has their story on Huffington Post, but did you miss the Anchoress talking about her gay brother, as well as a childhood friend who was “girlier” than she?
Interesting point Jeremiah. For the sake of discussion, does anyone know other evolutionary reasons why gay has survived as part through the evolutionary process.
I’m not talking about the cultural, ritual sodomy of minors the ancients Greeks turned into a norm. Accept for reducing the breeders, any other reason?
So many societies actively created Eunuchs and created bureaucracies with them. Byzantines, Chinese, Japanese…
“They dogmatically insisted they had chosen to be homosexual.”
Really? I think you’re probably confusing that with an insistence on being able to choose to express their sexuality.
“There is no scientific evidence for the argument from nature.”
Did you even read your link?
It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.
…
The authors of a 2008 study stated “there is considerable evidence that human sexual orientation is genetically influenced”
…
“In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.”
Interesting point Jeremiah. For the sake of discussion, does anyone know other evolutionary reasons why gay has survived as part through the evolutionary process.
FFS wake up. The incidence of homosexuality is on par with a range of other variables that occur during developmental processes so suggesting there must be some evolutionary reason why it perseveres is an argument without a cause. Basically, shit happens. Fucking Evol. Psych, one of the most dumbass misleading conceptual structures ever created.
If people say that they were “born that way” then who the fuck is smart enough to peek inside their heads and tell them that was not so? What ideologically driven shit for brains decides he or she knows the real reasons people are of LGBT. How bloody arrogant. Shit, I know, let’s ask some animals. Yes, homosexual mating in the animal kingdom does happen, even down to building nests.
Another perspective on cultural senstivity to Muslims from the UK Telegraph:
Rather than going down that wormhole again, it is more interesting to note that the Islamic ringleaders who stoke the flames of this sort of offence-fuelled violence are exactly the people who spew out truckloads of racist and anti-Semitic material daily.
What you will discover is page upon page of cartoons concerning Jews and Israel. Some may, if you squint, be excused as “political”; a few may even pass for the work of Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell. Most, however, are sickening.
That’s a bugger, Splat. But I wouldn’t mind betting they’d chuck Kimberly in amongst the sardines considering the quality of the stuff I’ve been getting from John West lately.
In regard to Henderson’s Media Watch Dog piece, I admit to feeling uncomfortable upon reading a detailed account of private correspondence between Henderson and Marr. Yep, he had his reasons, but it still seemed wrong.
Interesting point Jeremiah. For the sake of discussion, does anyone know other evolutionary reasons why gay has survived as part through the evolutionary process.
I’ve read various theories, one of which is that it keeps things in working order when there are no chicks around. Hence the prison effect.
If people say that they were “born that way” then who the fuck is smart enough to peek inside their heads and tell them that was not so? What ideologically driven shit for brains decides he or she knows the real reasons people are of LGBT.
They just did.
Shit, I know, let’s ask some animals. Yes, homosexual mating in the animal kingdom does happen, even down to building nests.
However, not down to reproduction. Interesting understanding of “mating”, by the by.
The incidence of homosexuality is on par with a range of other variables that occur during developmental processes so suggesting there must be some evolutionary reason why it perseveres is an argument without a cause. Basically, shit happens
Yes, I think that is more or less right, except the implications won’t be agreeable to the LGBTI community. But shit happens, I guess.
They haven’t adjusted to the fact that everything they write can now be fact-checked online.
This is why you are also seeing more incidences of plagiarism. Peer reviews and subsequent research are copied, reformatted and respun into a form of journalistic Chinese whispers until the facts are about as grainy as a VHS porn tape after its done the rounds at a footy club.
Anyway I still remember being attracted to girls in kindergarten, didn’t know what to do with them, just knew that I like to chase them around the sandpit!
First, bitches!
John Mc
12 Sep 12 at 5:13 am
Second, dawgs!
sdog
12 Sep 12 at 6:22 am
Test comment
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 6:26 am
A real journalist calls out David Marr for being a petty vindictive Writer of left wing fantasy. Sheridan reveals he knew Abbott in his student and calls out the bullsh&t.
It is interesting to note all stories of student violence Sheridan relates are by leftists on people on the right who do not retaliate.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 6:37 am
The more violence and hate you can produce just shows how much you really care. Leftie commandment No 1
Holden
12 Sep 12 at 7:23 am
Toke, reading between the all the squiggly lines of this story, it seems to me that Marr had an irrational hatred of Abbott 35 years ago and has carried that fury ever since for reasons he refuses to disclose. It has everything to do with Marr’s homosexuality, IMO. (Marr said on ABC radio this week: “He was unspeakably homophobic at the time.”) He now utilises every appearance on TV to attempt to belittle Abbott. Why? We’ll probably never know because Marr hasn’t been telling the truth and won’t start now; he’s dug too big a hole for himself spinning these stories. It’s a savage indictment for a “journalist” to have taken such an extreme position in a political contest, to have written about Abbott on the pretence of being an independent observer and to have clearly lied about something from his past to smear Abbott, according to Greg Sheridan’s account. For me, this story is intertwined with the decline of Fairfax. Everything written under this company’s name, including everything written by Marr, has to be second-guessed. That is absolutely fatal in the news business — and so it will prove.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 7:45 am
@token the Sheridan article is definitely worth a read. The poisonous atmosphere of far-left student politics is a terrible place.
A young relative of mine has gotten involved in student politics on the conservative side. From their reports, nothing much has changed – there was still plenty of abuse and threatening behaviour.
Sheridans final line ‘he was a good bloke then, and he’s a good bloke now’ – this is the overwhelming thought that will cut through with people.
Yet again, another case of projection.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 7:52 am
Marr is just a disgrace and an exemplar of all that is rotten with the love media.
Johno
12 Sep 12 at 7:53 am
Bolt gas 5 posts up this morning 4 of which each in its own right constitute an absolute indictment of this detestable government.
It’s sad that Sheridan’s defense of Abbott was necessary but it was thorough and devastating.
And it’s not as of the ABC weren’t forewarned by Henderson on Insiders last Sunday.
Even then the ABC could help themselves.
The ABC and Marr are loathsome leftists
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 7:59 am
It seems it has always been so and like the race riot in Canberra, the Left & the media do not intend to change.
I was as student in Vic before/after Kennett got elected and saw the violence of the Left to those who opposed them close up. I was friends with many of the players in student politics of the day (some of whom now are appearing at state/federal leve).
It was a defining contrast to me to see the Jewish students allow a respresentative of the PLO to come onto campus to do a presentation and to argue with him over idea.
By contrast, when Kennett would come on campus once a year and people I knew would attack his car, try to crush him and his security detail as they walked through the campus and bang on the doors of the room he would present.
When I would front those who were friends on the Left about their attitudes / actions and the voilence, illogical emotional rationalisations mixed with anger and envy would result.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 8:11 am
It is a clear statement of how poor a journalist that, either Marr didn’t know that Sheridan was once close to Abbott, or would stand up for his friend once the claims wers made.
You can bet the Barrie Cassidy will not be imposing a Glenn Milne style ban on the luvvie left icon for such a shoddy undergraduate hatchet job.
[After all the claim Cassidy made to substantiate the ban in a recent article was factually untrue].
Token
12 Sep 12 at 8:16 am
The Coalition looks as though they won’t support the ban on Super-trawlers. Katter looks as though he’ll ban the Abel Tasman. Wilkie is a definite also. Oakeshott looks as though he won’t support the ban on scientific grounds but unless Windsor joins him, it looks as though the Greens/GetUp have won. You can take it as given that Shagger Thomson will vote with the Government.
Cold-Hands
12 Sep 12 at 8:40 am
So like the Cattle Exporters, a company that took out a lease on a commercial vessel sees an arbitary change to laws which will cause the venture to become insolvent based upon an unscientific political campaign
In 5 years Australia has became an economic backwater with real sovereign risk concerns.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 8:45 am
Fauxfacts has an article about the millionares that Labor & the Greens have created in our near neighbours:
This is the way the businesses this “compassionate” Alliance has studious built up treats its customers:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 8:51 am
Sheridan reveals he can not be taken seriously on any political matters to do with Abbott because he was a fellow Young Liberal. He’s got about as much credibility as Pickering.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 8:52 am
Are you accusing Sheridan of lying, Mont?
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 8:55 am
Yeah mOron, he’s still light years ahead of your idol, Marr. Pull your head out of your arse fatty and check in with Stevie. You can chat on the phone while he does his ironing
Tiny Dancer
12 Sep 12 at 8:57 am
I’m accusing Sheridan of being partisan, Tom. I’m sure all those things he described actually happened. I was tangentially involved in student politics at my time at uni, and heard stories then that were as bad as the ones Sheridan recounts. Maoists were indeed crazy. But bad things were also caused by the right, too.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 8:57 am
Given that Nauru has now mandated that no detainees are transferred there “by force” you have to wonder whether any “asylum seekers” will end up there at all. The Rudd/Gillard regime lacked the bottle to frogmarch detainees off the Oceanic Viking and I doubt that they’ve hardened up any now that the Lying Slapper is in charge. Plus I note that she’s dragging the feet on implementing the other components of Angus Houston’s package. Not that it would work under this mob. Until we get a return to TPVs, curbs on welfare and no family reunions, the boats will still arrive.
Cold-Hands
12 Sep 12 at 8:59 am
Well someone is lying
Tal
12 Sep 12 at 9:00 am
Greg Sheridan is a good mate to write that article, he could have not bothered as the whole story is not true and nothing to do with policies or politics anyway. He’s possibly put himself offside with various other people now.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 9:03 am
So m0nty, by your own reasoning Marr should never have any comment on anything political taken seriously as he is an avowed leftist. By the same logic, nothing that he says about Abbott can be taken seriously because Marr has declared that young Tone was homophobic, therefore anathema to everything that Marr stands for.
Marr is the most partisan of partisan hacks, yet strangely you and your ilk never call him out for it.
I think that Sheridan needs to be applauded for standing up on principle to a disgracefully partisan and orchestrated smear of the opposition leader.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 9:05 am
Ah yes, good ol’ student politics – I was involved in the laybore right faction and our opponents were of course, the hard left trots, who inlcuded such luminaries as eric roozendaal and ‘mackenzie’ wark.
Needless to say, many of the trots ended up in the laybore right once they’d grown up a bit.
Another highlight of my student days was the collapse of AUS, whose president at the time was none other juliar ‘young and naive’ dullard…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 9:05 am
Sheridan most likely believes what he wrote, and good on him for defending a mate, but he’s way too close to Abbott for his word to be good enough as an alibi.
He’s also way too close to Abbott for him to be taken seriously in writing about Abbott’s political career.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:06 am
Given the testimony of the Young Labor man referenced by Sheridan, the liar is obviously Ramjan/Marr. Marr has not provided one iota of corroborative evidence.
Cold-Hands
12 Sep 12 at 9:08 am
Is this the same M0nty who was bloviating over journalistic standards last week?
Is this the same M0nty who was peddling claims from a woman who had a track record of making personal attacks on the family of journalists?
Is this the same M0nty who defended institutionalised corruption and tried to argue that smearing in response to documentary evidence is ok?
You are a grubby person. Maybe we should follow your ethicial standards and dig up some more facts of your days at AusBone as it is hard to believe your approach to business will be different to politics.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:10 am
The monty system of justice – no one may testify to the accused’s good character.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 9:11 am
I agree to a point, though it’s a matter of degree. I don’t see Marr as lilywhite by any means, and his public pronouncements always should be put in context of his beliefs because he is a columnist, not a hard news journo. He’s not the close personal friend of Gillard, though.
Sheridan has announced himself as a partisan with this piece, because his reasoning goes, “He’s my mate, and he didn’t say anything to me about it, thus I trust him.” That’s not the though process of a journalist. That’s a mate talking.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:12 am
It is clear by the way M0nty went personal on Sheridan he knows it to be true as well.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:12 am
That may very well be the case, and nothing can be proven either way. Marr should drop it. The point has been made, such as it is. I wouldn’t have gone there if I were him, and I don’t agree with his methods.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:15 am
So you believe Marr’s essay on Abbott is credible independent analysis? You’re such a disappointment, Monster. Stop pretending you’re an idiot.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 9:17 am
Why is all of this energy being spent on this allegation re Abbott anyway?
Even if there was proof it happened, I don’t see that many people would be affected by a story indicating that Tone could be a hot head at university. It was a long time ago, and people in university politics do stupid things all the time, I am sure.
In fact, if it was up to me, involvement in university student politics should keep you out of Parliament rather than be a stepping stone on the way in.
Those that believe that it probably did happen probably already hated him anyway.
Those that don’t believe it don’t trust Marr on anything anyway.
And the slab in the middle probably think, “maybe it happened, but who cares?”
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 9:18 am
No, I don’t. He’s a partisan too, pretty much.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:19 am
Still think Tony Abbott should sue david Marr and put a stop to this nonsense. Mr Abbott is a good man and there’s nothing in his past to ever validate such smearing and base tactics.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 9:19 am
What’s the point of your comment m0nty?
You don’t approve but you’re grateful “(t)he point has been made, such as it is”?
That wishywashy shite marks you as complicit with Marr.
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 9:21 am
Marr is totally unconvincing. The “unspeakably homophobic” remark shows where he’s coming from. Dishonest in his lifestyle, it’s a small step to lie about others.
—————————————————-
Sheridan is partisan – where ? He’s speaking up for a mate, how evil.
While you’re at it monty, please make a list of journalists who are in a relationship with a politician, political assistant/advisor, unionist, business lobbyist. What do you think the split between labor, greens and liberals would be?
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 9:21 am
Information is that Ramjan, the former student union leader and Abbott’s current accuser, was a member of a Communist-front faction. She retired as SRC President (succeeded by Abbott) in disgrace within the Left for strikebreaking on SRC staff.
Abbott, on the other hand, has always been fundamentally decent.
CC
12 Sep 12 at 9:23 am
So sfb runs interference. Doesn’t like the idea of someone now digging into Gillard’s student exploits perhaps? Something (more) to hide?
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 9:25 am
On the QLD budget, had a conversation with a former colleague who is caught up in the ‘sackings’.
Said colleague is currently enjoying 12 month maternity leave (3 months full time pay, balance half pay). Department is faced with 76 redundancies. Rather than in fear, favors and paybacks currently being traded to be in line for the redundancies. The redundancy for this particular young mother – who hasn’t worked since March – looks like being a $25k payout, with a chunk tax-free. Remember – this is being paid to leave a job that she hasn’t worked in 6 months anyway.
Note : not a front-line position, but merely a back-office position. Obviously not important, as no replacement currently filling in for the maternity leave.
The unions might be screaming about sackings, but the workers seem to jockeying to get a slice of the $800m redundancy pile.
Makes me sick. In no position have I ever worked was there a chance of a $25k payout for deciding to never return to a job I wasn’t doing anyway.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 9:25 am
You’re putting words in my mouth, JamesK. I don’t agree with the point he’s making, either. Just because the rightwing horde descended upon Gillard’s past like a pack of rabid dogs doesn’t mean the hounds should also be released on Abbott’s past.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:27 am
Great point, Keith. Show me a leftist homosexual and I’ll show you a compulsive liar.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 9:28 am
brc,
I know people who were in the federal PS. They got to the front of the VR queue by favouritism through mates.
That’s how attractive VR’s can be.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 9:29 am
Only what you yourself have written!
Let’s look at another:
LOL
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 9:30 am
m0nty, I don’t think that it matters. It seems that the cabal of left leaning Canberra stenographers toe a party line irrespective of the personalities at the top of the ALP.
As much as people (myself included) enjoy chucking a bit of muck your way, you generally at least try to back your views up with some sort of logic, as twisted as that might be.
In this instance however, you are showing a rank depth of hypocrisy that I thought only the Greens could muster.
If being partisan should exclude Sheridan from commenting about Tone, surely most of Fairfax & the ABC should also be excluded from opining on anything political.
Unlike you, I don’t have an issue with partisan opinion. What I do take issue with is when it is not balanced by an opposing voice.
A quick look at Fairfax & the ABC will show that virtually all opinion and reportage comes from the viewpoint of the left, there is no dissenting view offered.
I wish that you had the testicular fortitude to admit as much.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 9:31 am
The slab in the middle should see it as both part of Labor’s ongoing campaign to smear Abbott as misogynist and a desperate equivalency stretch to take the heat off Gillard regarding her activities at Slater and Gordon. A cynical and transparent shut up tactic.
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 9:32 am
equivalency stretch designed to take
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 9:36 am
So was I. Eric Rozendall used to be trot? He was already high up in Labor Right (Centre Unity as it was called in uni) when I was around.
It seems from what Sheridan is describing that nothing much has changed at all. When I was briefly involved, the sane moderate types were the Labor Right and Libs who had more in common with each other and were more frequently in alliance with each other than the Labor Left+ Trots. The wet Libs were a bit off with the fairies though as I recall they supported no university fees at that time.
AUJS (Australian Union of Jewish Students) were understandably closer to us and the Libs because of the loony anti-zionists in the left alliance. We also usually had the votes of the Christian/EU (Evangelical Union) votes sown up.
jtfsoon
12 Sep 12 at 9:38 am
100% right, Ivan. Why do you think Albo was nominated as the chief attack dog on the issue? Because shut up! People like Michael Smith are still diggging away, compiling a damning account of the Prime Minister’s working life that won’t go away, no matter how much her sleazy Catallaxy lapdogs suck and dissemble.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 9:40 am
Frankly, most political opinion published in the MSM in Australia isn’t worth a pinch of shit. Journos seem to align themselves with their sources way too much.
It’s also a bit of a myth that Fairfax is leftwing theses days. Grattan has moved all the way over to the right. Carney, Coorey, Hartcher… all have been captured by ALP Right sources and/or Rudd, and have been attacking the left for years now.
I won’t cry for any of them when they take their redundancies.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:44 am
RATFLMAO
Stop m0nty…. please.
You’re killin’ me.
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 9:53 am
The point of comparison with the never-happened-wall-attack and Gillards of-course-it-happened involvement in fraud is that – even if the wall punch happened, which it patently did not – it’s not illegal to punch walls. It is illegal, however, to set up union slush funds contrary to their stated purpose. A thing which, quite rightly, led to dismissal from a law firm.
If we want to take the ‘but it speaks to character’ line – then we learn that Tony (if it were true, as it patently is not), as a young student, was a bit of a hothead. We also learn that Gillard, as a law partner, thought very little of either the law, ethical behaviour, or even reporting criminal activities to authorities.
The Gillard events are all documented, proven true and show that she is deceptive, which we already knew from the carbon tax lie, the Rudd knifing, the Wilkie backflip.
The Abbott events are all fabrications, and show that the Labor party has major problems with telling the truth, which we already knew. We also know that Abbott must be of good character, as the only way they can find problems is by making them up. Which means the dirt files are cleaner than a hospital table.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 9:54 am
Grattan has moved all the way over to the right.
WTF? Evidence please.
Carney, Coorey, Hartcher… all have been captured by ALP Right sources and/or Rudd, and have been attacking the left for years now.
I am amazed at your blinkered view of the world m0nty. Even you must realise what an asinine statement that is. What you are actually trying to say is that the right wing of a leftist party is attacking the far left, yet in your myopic fashion you fail to see that to those of us in the centre or right of centre, they are all left wingers.
Just to make it clear for you, even the ALP Right faction is too far to the left for most of the players on this site.
Any party that stands for larger government and regulation is of the left, it is really only about degrees thereafter.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 9:54 am
Quite.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:57 am
Yes, I know, which makes you lot supremely unqualified to classify factions.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 9:58 am
Albanese back operating in his natural environment. The gutter.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 9:59 am
Now that’s comical, Mont. Grattan is a lone relatively sane voice among the ultra-left lunatics at Fairfax, although I’ve never known her bias to be hanging out so blatantly. Coorey and Harcher are the main Fairfax spokesman for the crazy Green agenda that is now being imposed on the country. It’s hilarious how rabid extremists now regard the feral Labor rabble — complete with Finkelstein, Bromberg and Andrew Leigh and the rest of the maddies — as “the right”. The new “Right” of the ALP would have been expelled from the party under Keating as an anti-democratic embarrassment.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 10:01 am
Back at you.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 10:04 am
Tony should sue Marr, only because Marr is obviously unbalanced about Tony.
Unrequited love’s a bore?
Marr is the weakest link – put some pressure on him TA, and watch the meltdown.
Winston SMITH
12 Sep 12 at 10:09 am
Just to be clear, Huck, you’re saying Menzies was a leftist. Crazy stuff.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 10:09 am
Jim Stynes comes home as wife Sam recalls battle with cancer
THE wife of Aussie Rules football legend Jim Stynes has told how they scattered his ashes in a beautiful ceremony in the mountains near his Dublin home. [...]
Radio interview podcast
Nanuestalker
12 Sep 12 at 10:10 am
Sheridan produces unimpeachable witnesses to destroy lying homosexual weirdo David Marr’s wallbanger story.
So that’s the end of that.
Abbott wins.
Again.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:10 am
It’s worth pointing out that Marr has admitted to drug use.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:12 am
Actually, he produced non-witnesses.
“I didn’t see anything, did you see anything?”
“Nup. But Abbott’s a good feller, innit?”
“Sure is, chap.”
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 10:13 am
Abbott wins.
Marr beclowned.
Monty humiliated.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:17 am
There’s an article in today’s SMH about studies into life expectancy of homosexuals. CL, is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?
Extracts reproduced below:
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 10:19 am
Soony – this was between 1982 to 1984…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 10:20 am
Unlike say Shagger Thomson, Abbott has a pretty good success rate on defamation actions. Ask Bob Ellis and Random House. Bob Hawke practically used defamation settlements as a second income during his time in politics.
While there probably isn’t much to be gained whacking Marr and the collapsing house of Fauxfax, it would be fun.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 10:22 am
Now we can return to things worth looking into.
First up: that staffer who followed Gillard’s orders on Australia Day and used black fellas to physically assault Tony Abbott.
Then, interviews please with Mesdames Wilson and Emersen.
More please on Craig Thompson and the robbing of female hospital workers to pay prostitutes – all fully defended by Julia Gillard and Anthony Albanese.
Then back to the Slater & Gordon/slush fund pong.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:24 am
m0mty, take your Menzies straw man and fuck off.
My point remains, you view attacks from the right of the ALP as being attacks from the “Right”. What a crock of shit.
To the majority (55/45 2PP), the view from the right of the ALP is still a view from the left.
It beggars belief that you consider a right ALP view as being of the Right.
Dissembling and obfuscation at its worst.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 10:24 am
Agreed, it has been a productive morning.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 10:30 am
Yes, thanks for that impartial article, Steve.
LOL.
Nice dodge using lezos too.
No no. Sodomy is driving an epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases and death. Just as there is no ‘safe’ amount of smoking, there is no ‘safe’ number of anal ‘sex’ encounters. Not even with condoms.
These are the facts.
So Wallace’s point stands – still unchallenged.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:30 am
I just challenged it above numbnuts.
So your response is “the article was not impartial”.
My question was “is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?” Do you have an answer to that question?
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 10:36 am
THE first cigarettes in plain packaging have hit the major supermarkets – and they don’t comply with the government’s strict new rules.
One company, Imperial Tobacco, is using the new packaging to directly challenge the government by telling its Peter Stuyvesant brand customers “it’s what’s on the inside that counts”.
Roxon’s head will explode in 3…2…1
“Soon no one will see Peter Stuyvesant on the outside but we don’t care. We’re going plain early, because we know Peter Stuyvesant will continue to live on inside,” the company says in a leaflet advertising its packaging
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 10:46 am
This is why when I smoke I choose Peter Syuyvesant.
What a wonderful “fuck you” to the wife of a convicted heroin dealer.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 10:46 am
Oh now that student politics in is in play don’t forget:
Gillard being president of an organisation that:
1. Officially stated that all men are rapists
2. Stated that marriage is akin to prostitution.
3. Officially endorsed violence to achieve political ends
Also we need to have a look at Gillard’s part in the rorting of the WA miners fund – where it is alleged she was used as a shill to “convince” the miners to hand over control of their fund to her grifter boyfriend.
Also let’s have a look at Conroy and Shorten’s time as union “officials” – an area always guaranteed to pay dividends.
Just to start.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 10:49 am
Shazam IT
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 10:51 am
From 2003:
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=1407
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 10:55 am
CL’s next crusade
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 10:58 am
Actually I’m coming around to a defamation suit against Marr.
It would be even sweeter if Marr was bankrupt. Because ‘I can’t sue because he is bankrupt’ is a lame, lame excuse.
But a good defamation suit prosecuted properly would show that anyone who is sure of the facts takes action.
Get onto it, Liberal HQ. Teach Marr a lesson. He is such a poor excuse for an opinion writer. There’s no doubt he’d rather be taking drugs and waffling BS to friends than actually trying to do research. The ultimate empty suit.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 11:01 am
Excellent scoreboard.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 11:02 am
“While there probably isn’t much to be gained whacking Marr and the collapsing house of Fauxfax, it would be fun.”
Not for any money, but for the principle. David Marr has been trying to destroy Tony Abbott’s political career and personal reputation, which affects voters’ perception of him and the Coalition. He’s been insinuating that Mr Abbott is a woman beating thug.
(and W. Swan called him a ‘thug’ in parliament based on Marr’s lies).
All of which must cause distress to Mr Abbott’s family too.
It’s pretty serious stuff.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 11:08 am
Obama has trouble using an iPhone
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/sep/9/tech-challenge-obama-has-trouble-iphone/
jtfsoon
12 Sep 12 at 11:09 am
If you had your way, Steve, the Labor party would not exist.
Yobbo
12 Sep 12 at 11:09 am
Haters gonna hate.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 11:19 am
Don’t be ridiculous mOnty. Everyone knows what really killed off the dinosaurs
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 11:24 am
those smoking dinosaurs are so cute!
candy
12 Sep 12 at 11:27 am
Both that it was impartial and also hilarious.
Take a guess how they improve their figures:
Throw in some dykes and you can fix some better numbers.
But Wallace was almost certainly referring to homosexual men alone.
And his point remains unchallenged.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:38 am
wasn’t impartial
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:39 am
Fpr Monty
Your definition of someone way too close to be objective rings true for both sides, mate!
I’ve always said that about Barrie Cassidy and Kerry O’Brien who worked closely in Labor so gee whiz how could they be objective?
Guess it comes down to the reader/listener to distill info and make up their own minds!
Jazza
12 Sep 12 at 11:40 am
Good for you, Monty.
Stand by Catherine Deveny.
That’s the ticket.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:42 am
They waited years to stop brown people dying at sea by the hundreds.
But now they’re …
Racing to stop fish slaughter by super trawler.
The extremist ALP: they value fish more than human beings.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:45 am
Good for you, CL.
Stand by Westboro Baptist.
That’s the ticket.
m0nty
12 Sep 12 at 11:45 am
A 2010 report from England indicated that those diagnosed with HIV still had a decreased life expectancy of about 13 years, but it also claims (I am not sure how they can tell this) that recently diagnosed who got onto treatment fast may have “normal” life expectancy. That would seem to me to be a guess, really, as the long term effects of being on the antivirals surely can’t yet be known.
I think being on the antivirals has all sorts of side effects too, and part of the anti AIDS education now is trying to convince young people that it is still something you really do not want to be on, even if you are not going to die of it within 10 or 20 years, as used to be the case.
It would seem that the Wallace figures are therefore inaccurate and out of date, and CL, who does not “do” science, simply won’t admit the exaggeration, or that gay men who are monogamus and HIV negative are capable of having at least some anal sex with very low likelihood of health consequences. (I would assume that giving that part of your body daily punishment is not a good idea, but you would have to assume that its frequency drops off in long term relationships anyway. And, of course, some gay men never do it.)
To the extent that the CL side of the argument has any merit, I suppose I would agree with the proposition that if it weren’t for general modern squeamishness (from not only the Left, but libertarian types too) about people being told what’s a good or bad way to conduct their private lives, one would think that sensible advice to all people (gay or straight) is that promiscuity can have serious health consequences and they should not be promiscuous for health reasons. This is a particularly important message for gay men in Australia because of the profile of HIV here. In Africa, it applies to both gay and straight men equally.
In other words, I would like to see the ABC ((abstinence, monogamy and condoms) approach such as that done with some success in Uganda be tried here within the gay community, but political correctness prevents it, and I think that is to be regretted.
I would be impressed if someone from somewhere in the gay community would one day say, hey, gay men: instead of always relying on condoms and safe sex (which you’re going to probably not always do perfectly anyway) why don’t you try not having casual sex, and monogamy once you find a lover you like.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 11:47 am
And still no answer CL
“is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?”
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 11:47 am
That would be an example of Tu quoque you were rabbiting on about the other day, yeah?
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 11:52 am
gah back to the fudge packing debate. I’m out of here.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 11:57 am
Obama’s bid to play nice with the Arab Spring seems to have come unstuck, over perceived “insult to Mohammed”.
Attacks on US consulate in Libya, and US embassy in Egypt. One American killed and others injured.
Cue further bowing and scraping from Obama.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 11:57 am
“why don’t you try not having casual sex, and monogamy once you find a lover you like.”
won’t work, homosexual men are known to have many partners, may be called promiscuous. Perhaps because you’ve got 2 guys with testosterone and availabilty of “bath houses” and other places for many brief encounters.
So health information to them is real important and to check with doctors over any problems.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 12:03 pm
Fred Phelps is a Democrat, Monty.
Just like you.
I stand with Peter Jensen, D.Phil (Oxford).
You stand with Catherine Deveny, B.Irwin (Twitter).
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 12:04 pm
Oh great another fudge-packing debate at Fallacy Files.
________________________________________________
Sinc -
Can you give these guys their own thread and ban discussion of Abortion, Climate Change and Homosexuality/SSM from the open thread.
Nanuestalker
12 Sep 12 at 12:06 pm
Seems like the Arab Nuclear Winter is not going well.
How did the people of Egypt and Libya remember 9/11?
People are drawing the obvious parallel between this election campaign and events during another campaign in 1979.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 12:06 pm
Fish can’t vote. Unlike Keating’s Lebs.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 12:11 pm
Drudge headlines on the US / Israel relations:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 12:12 pm
Announcement by US embassy in Egypt seems to prove the US government under Obama has chosen to use this video by Andrew Klavan as an instructional video instead of a parody:
Annoucement by US Embassy after a bunch of Islamist extremists storm the compound was unbelievable:
[H/t Instapundit]
Token
12 Sep 12 at 12:29 pm
Has anyone yet had the misfortune of wading through this steaming pile of dog droppings?
Where else but their frigging ALPBC…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 12:38 pm
anyone have problems with refreshing?
Nanuestalker
12 Sep 12 at 12:39 pm
Yes, a few gremlins in the works today.
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 12:41 pm
I see the formatting buttons have gone, but this is from The Hill yesterday:
Several polls released in recent days show Obama displaying new strength among male voters. Romney needs to win the male electorate by a wide margin to overcome the chronic disadvantage the GOP faces with respect to women.
A CNN poll released Monday showed Obama moving into a small lead among men, besting Romney 48 percent to 47. The finding was especially notable because CNN, in a poll conducted about a week prior, had shown Romney holding a 12-point lead among men (55 percent to 43).
Obama still obviously masculine enough for American male voters.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 12:47 pm
‘So the(y) finally stopped a boat.’
Great call, Gab, still smiling – we should make Burke and Ludwig in charge if illegal immigration!
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 12:51 pm
Government stenographers setting things up nicely for Gillard’s return.
Hey if they can smear Abbott that he attacked Gillard over her involvement in the Wilson scandal, which he didn’t do but facts and these stenographers are mutual strangers, then falsely pre-empting what Abbott will do next week is easy-peasey.
Let’s also remeber Gillard slipped in the Labor/union advert into her press release advising her father’s death.
Never let a tragedy go to waste, as they say.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 12:55 pm
Greens go back on their own policy and change their position on off-shore processing to support their Alliance partners.
Oh well, it was only a matter of time.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 1:01 pm
Rabz @12.38
There was a thread on the Cat (22/06) about the author of that piece of shite.
On the thread twostix made the following post,
I think in this circumstance the same question needs to be asked: What qualifies a cellular neuroscientist to be commenting on the Queensland budget?
Why is their ABC paying him for this? Surely The Dumb would be able to find a more qualified stenographer from their salaried employees?
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 1:08 pm
Twitter treating Australian law with contempt: Conroy.
Paul Sheehan, December 6, 2004:
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:08 pm
So Grattan has been caught out lying on behalf of the ALP.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:12 pm
Huck,
I remember it. The comments thread was graced by the great cellular neuroscientistic narcissist himself.
The regulars where underwhelmed, as you’ve noted…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 1:20 pm
Lefty ‘science‘:
LOL.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:23 pm
WTF?
Is it just me, or does “seven years” strike anybody else as somewhat optimistic?
They won’t last seven months at the rate things are going…
From the same post:
Good luck with that!
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 1:27 pm
The Australian franchisees.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_fix_was_in_gImIPWyKJdEWhZasJmFIUO
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 1:32 pm
Says much about modern day America. A great nation now reduced to supporting a Marxist homosexual dog eater. They deserve their fate.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 1:33 pm
A fitting end to one of the most disastrous conventions in US history…
And a Freudian slip:
Russian ships displayed at DNC tribute to vets.
They really love those vets.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:36 pm
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-perfect-to-host-gay-rugby-comp-says-pm-20120911-25qnp.html
jtfsoon
12 Sep 12 at 1:39 pm
On September 11, Barack Hussein Obama administration apologises to Islamists who attacked US embassies in Egypt and Libya.
Romney: “disgraceful.”
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/150526/
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:40 pm
Rabz, I couldn’t help myself. I went back to the piece on the Dumb and started to read the comments where I came across this beauty,
I genuinely don’t know if it was said tongue in cheek.
Some of the other stuff on there is just stupid beyond belief.
Political beliefs are portrayed as being along a straight line ie;
Left——————–Centre—————-Right
I actually believe that it should be portrayed more as a circle where the Far Left & Far Right merge together.
It really is amazing how similarly stupid those at the political extremes are.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 1:41 pm
The rules of rugby have turned the once beautiful game into a disgusting bath house scene, they may as well celebrate that fact.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 1:41 pm
In The Australian:
German court: Transexuals have fundamental human right to A-cups.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:49 pm
I’ll bet the scrums are popular, IT.
Winston SMITH
12 Sep 12 at 1:51 pm
FM.
That AFL bloke tried to jump from that level to a palm tree?
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 1:54 pm
Wonder if those rugby types will sing this type of song
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 1:55 pm
Good idea, especially climate change.
There are plenty of articles about climate change with comments threads, and so there is no reason to also discuss it in the open forum.
dd
12 Sep 12 at 1:57 pm
A considered view on the great surrender to the Islamists in Cairo:
Looks like not everyone is happy that their country is turning into the next bunch of Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 2:04 pm
It’s not a good idea, Dave. It’s a stupid idea.
The Jensen/Wallace story was probably the biggest social story of the week.
It should be discussed and the Deveny-ites should be hammered.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:05 pm
Drugs can do strange things to a man.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 2:08 pm
“I’ll bet the scrums are popular, IT.”
not to mention the showers after the match.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 2:10 pm
The increasingly mentally ill Labor Party…
Wayne Swan just said in Parliament that DA SUPER TWAWLER threatened to rob people from catching a fish “throwing a line in” on the weekend.
Yes, he said that.
There would be no fish left in the oceans off Queensland, he argued.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:13 pm
What about Iran? Do they have to abide by Irans laws too? What of Russian Law? Conroy demands American citizens be held to Russian law because they run a website accessible to Australians?
How does this work Conroy you 19th century throwback?
He’s such an extraordinary dumbshit, worse than Alston by a million yet the IT boobs who once flung so much shit Alstons way over his mildly stupid comments regarding technology are no where to be found re Conroy’s thickheaded, neo luddite, unmasked fascism.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 2:14 pm
Hey, remember how Rudd and Gillard promised to cut homelessless?
Mission accomplished!
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:19 pm
Conroys comments are the manifestation of an ugly delusion that has been brewing and growing in the Australian left for a decade now: That anybody in the world gives a fuck about what this tiny little country thinks or does. Recently we saw it with their rhetoric about being “leaders” in implementing a carbon dioxide tax, Rudd’s outlandish narcissism at the Copenhagen summit and Gillard daring to lecturing Europe.
Now Conroy literally thinks he’s going to bully an American company, in America, with no presence in Australia, into doing what he tells them? Simply because he’s Australia’s communications minister for at most 12 more months?
It’s just stupid on every single level, yet there’s a pretty large portion of the population that’ll just eat it up.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 2:22 pm
http://www.davidmhart.com/VideoClips/YesPM/YesPM1.html
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 2:23 pm
It’s not accurate to say Conroy is just dumb.
I’ve always seriously believed that he’s mildly retarded.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:24 pm
stix – you’re railing about the sort of softcock who bawled his eyes out in parliament about some ‘nuclear milk’ popping up that stinking toilet the UK, many many decades ago.
He’s a petulant, whiny li’l biatch.
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 2:27 pm
Plenty of bag snatching..
Lazlo
12 Sep 12 at 2:28 pm
The disgusting rhyming stunt has just locked up most of the nation’s fisheries in a marine park.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 2:29 pm
Most mildly retarded people know that they’re not that bright intellectually and most have a happy disposition.
Conroy clearly doesn’t realise he’s retarded and his triumphantly nasty.
Maybe he’s just small-minded like most leftist twerps?
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 2:31 pm
He’s a bit simple.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 2:33 pm
Most mildly retarded people know that they’re not that bright intellectually and most have a happy disposition.
Conroy clearly doesn’t realise that he’s both retarded and triumphantly nasty.
Or maybe he’s just small-minded like most leftist twerps?
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 2:35 pm
Blair ran the hilarious pic.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:35 pm
Yes, he’s a prime reason we should ban immigration from that shithole until they start producing men again.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 2:41 pm
Arghh! It’s misbehavin’ my end again!
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 2:42 pm
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/crying_over_nuked_milk/
Conroy is a crybaby which is one of the reasons he is so enthusiastic about Finkelstein. The sense of entitlement is strong in him, even by Labor standards. And remember, The Australian stated that the leads and info on the Wilson scandal it had received had come from within Labor yet Conroy declared on breakfast television that it was all a Liberal Party smear. This is the child who wants to Finkelstein the media for truthiness.
Ivan Denisovich
12 Sep 12 at 2:43 pm
Um, if he was wandering alone from casino to casino, then went up to a roof alone, how do they know it was an intended jump to a palm tree?
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 2:43 pm
LOL, it really does look like pants.
[H/t Tim Blair]
Token
12 Sep 12 at 2:44 pm
When I invent a time machine, I’m going to print that picture and travel back to Barcaldine, 1891.
I’m going to saunter up to that famous old gum tree that those shearers were meeting under and show them that photo.
Silence will fall over the mob and without a word they will disperse.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 2:51 pm
Business innovation from Jason’s homeland:
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 2:51 pm
There were three witnesses.
The LV coroner has ruled out suicide.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 2:57 pm
An acid trip is my guess.
Nanuestalker
12 Sep 12 at 2:57 pm
Twitter abuse can be solved in five seconds – bring back dueling.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 3:00 pm
Just hurry about it, please.
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 3:00 pm
CL wrote, re the Democrat convention:
I would really, really like to know what you do for a living, CL, because if it is something that involves the exercise of common sense and judgement and may possibly affect me, I need to know so as to avoid your lack of it.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 3:00 pm
Albanese going off in parliament. These geezers have really lost it
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 3:00 pm
Yesterday, either Stepford or Monst were accused of reminding him of Jerry Lundergaard, but I can’t recall which schelp it was. Does anyone recall?
JC
12 Sep 12 at 3:02 pm
Tweet to Conroy : suck it up princess, the concept of national speech laws don’t mean bubcus on an international communications network.
Oh, how he would love to get his filthy little totalitarian hands on the Australian internet feed.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 3:03 pm
“An acid trip is my guess.”
sounds like it, or something that made him paranoid and he felt he had to escape by jumping to a tree.
poor bugger.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 3:04 pm
What about this time? That he’s never had a job?
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 3:05 pm
what did Obama actually aoplogise for? Anyone got a link?
papachango
12 Sep 12 at 3:08 pm
Government member saying “what did people do to deserve losing their APS jobs”
Vote Labor was the reply.
And jeez didn’t Porky Pig get worked up about it. I expect The Bonge to offer a sympathic review
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 3:09 pm
I’m not an Avon lady, Steve, so you’re fine.
The Democrat convention was a disaster.
Even the US love media criticised it as a series of embarrassing bungles, almost without precedent in the history of these heavily choreographed events.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 3:09 pm
Wonder what Peter Slipper is up to these days.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 3:11 pm
Anna Burke – who also appears to be slightly deranged – has today completely corrupted Question Time by allowing the government’s entire list of Dorothy Dixers to be about state government policies.
This has never been allowed before.
She is an incompetent idiot and a disgrace to the office.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 3:15 pm
OMG, this is theatre of the absurd, the morons in Lie-Bore have found a way to appear more out of touch than Craig Thomson:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 3:15 pm
LOL:
Robbie Farah told PM Julia Gillard to get ‘a noose’ on Twitter.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 3:20 pm
Seeking asylum in Ecuador?
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 3:20 pm
Greg Sheridan’s article has upset the ALP today.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 3:22 pm
If this disgusts you, keep in mind that the Obama administration revealed this guy helped them get Osama bin Laden in leaks to get some cheap headlines in the NY Times:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 3:22 pm
This hopeless Gillard government looks more like the collapse of Whitlam with every day that passes.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 3:24 pm
“Wonder what Peter Slipper is up to these days.”
Broadcast rights to the Bingham Cup from Sydney?
Kaboom
12 Sep 12 at 3:30 pm
Has there ever been a stupider treasurer. Monst, Stepford, wimpy Alan, SteveC? Answer please
JC
12 Sep 12 at 3:34 pm
CL, I know you seem to live in some alternative universe at the moment, but ignoring your version of what the media said about the convention, how do you explain the widely reported improvement in Obama’s polling since his convention (and the more modest boost Romney got from his)?
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 3:35 pm
John Kerin.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 3:38 pm
Oh yea.
Fuckerberg is worth 10 billion instead of $20 billion.
JC
12 Sep 12 at 3:39 pm
Candy, from the sounds of it I don’t think that you are right.
It appears that he got lost and found his way out to a mezzanine level which had a self locking door. As he was in an area for employees only, it sounds like you needed an access pass or key to open the door, so he was faced with 2 choices: wait for someone to come & open the door (likely to be a long wait at 4.00am local) or, do what any young athlete in the prime of their life would do when full of alcohol and invincibility- climb down.
When you have a look at the photo, the trunk of the palm tree only seems to be a meter or so from the edge, so with beer goggles on it would not have looked such a leap of faith to jump out, grab a hold and slide down to the ground.
Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, his plan did not work out.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 3:41 pm
Bwahahaha!
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 3:41 pm
CL
Worst President ever?
JC
12 Sep 12 at 3:42 pm
After his creepy, totalitarian attempt to institute a Chinese inspired censorship regime was thwarted and he was soundly flogged and embarrassed by private ISP’s at every turn he suddenly (but totally separately!) came up with the idea of a fully nationalised network.
Where the old NBN would be built and owned by private contractors using the copper network, this new government owned network would not just sit alongside the older networks, no it would replace them by government fiat. Here’s the brilliance of his new regime: the government would pay companies to tear their billion dollar competing networks out of the ground to ensure nobody could ever use them again. All ISP’s would be forced to use the government network.
None of this has anything to do with his original utter failure to force private ISP’s to filter the internet or his utter embarrassment at their hands. No we’re to believe that child porn, viruses, spam, “hate speech”, “offensive tweets” and illegally transferred copyrighted material will traverse the Steven Conroy designed government network freely in spite of him spending a large chunk of political capital campaigning to ban those things on private networks…
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 3:42 pm
“Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, his plan did not work out.”
I guess you’re right, wonder why he had no phone tho, but if drunk probably just didn’t think straight.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 3:45 pm
I mentioned the other day that where while the tweet to him about his mother despite being offensive isn’t currently illegal, the menacing reply he made back according to Roxon was by definition illegal.
Yet that wee matter was totally ignored not just by the media, but by every level of government, from premier, to AG to PM.
I do not think we live in a country where the law is evenly applied.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 3:47 pm
Huck,
I don’t think you know what effects LSD can have on a person. No rational, or even drunk person, decides to jump from a building to a palm tree in order to get themselves down to street level.
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 3:50 pm
I would predict that he was showing off in front of some chick. That seems to be a common factor in a lot of these sorts of cases.
Dangph
12 Sep 12 at 3:53 pm
No, you are right about the LSD Dan.
But I do know what it is like to be 22, playing high level sport and have been drinking for 12 hours.
No-one and nothing could possibly hurt me, I was king of the world. I could take Mike Tyson. Leap tall buildings in a single bound? Pfft- easy!
Haven’t most of us been there before?
Thankfully, most of us are lucky enough to get through this period and grow into cantankerous middle age.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
12 Sep 12 at 3:58 pm
Doug Cameron going off the deep end in Parliament over Gina. Poor old delusional bastard, he’s lost the plot. Early onset Dementia maybe?
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 3:59 pm
I predict he was smashed on booze, coke, GBH and MDMA… and I’ll be right.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 4:02 pm
What are they going to do when after they’ve gone to all this effort this week, the maximum amount possible, and next Monday the polls haven’t changed one iota?
Then what?
Are they going to go crazy and start blowing shit up?
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 4:04 pm
“Are they going to go crazy and start blowing shit up?”
they’ll be watching the Coalition to see they show the appropriate amount of sympathy and understanding to Ms Gillard (which they will), but one challenging question from the opposition to Ms Gillard and all hell will break loose about Tony Abbott’s hard heartedness etc.
it never ends.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 4:08 pm
Yep, you’d want the ‘Soap on a Rope’ option. I gave one to my then boyfriend when he went off to a footy carnival – I think he appreciated it. well, I thought it was funn.
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 4:09 pm
Yep, you’d want the ‘Soap on a Rope’ option. I gave one to my then boyfriend when he went off to a footy carnival – I think he appreciated it. Well, I thought it was funny.
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 4:09 pm
funn(y)
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 4:10 pm
I think if Abbott just says ‘hello’ to Gillard next week it’ll be enough to set the Labor crazies off in an ABbottAbbottAbbott/misogynist feeding frenzy. They all seems somewhat unhinged these days.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 4:11 pm
I give up
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 4:11 pm
Nanny Roxon will be watching. Be nice to Juliar.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 4:16 pm
Are you watching APAC Gab?
I wish they would put that on free to air
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 4:17 pm
I wish they would put that on free to air
I agree!
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 4:19 pm
Hick,
Maybe I’m different, but I always took the option to lie down and go to sleep and wait instead of taking option Z and jumping from a tall building.
Probably wasn’t LSD anyway, maybe one of those stupid off your face take an extra half a gram and your dead type of drugs.
My sympathies to his family and girlfriend.
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 4:23 pm
I wonder if Peter Slipper is interested in the position of honorary chaplain for the gay rugby carnival.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 4:26 pm
The vitriolic attacks on the opposition and the government’s enemies is way worse than 1975. Large slabs of the media abandoning their adversarial role to barrack for the government of the day is also unprecedented in Australian political history. The air tax is at least as big a disaster as the Khemlani loans affair.
Tom
12 Sep 12 at 4:27 pm
I mean Huck.
Why do apple make such infuriating products?
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 4:28 pm
At this rate of increasing derangement they’ll probably start consuming psychotropic drugs and jumping off buildings to their deaths…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 4:30 pm
The problem with this proposition is highlighted. Slippery would only be interested if there’s a big payout attached. And thats before he had lots of hungry lawyers to feed.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 4:34 pm
So good to see idiot Milne take such a firm stand on corruption “and the like”. LOL.
A foul abject liar.
Has she been asleep for the last four years?
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/greens-wont-bring-down-labor-over-nauru/story-e6frfku9-1226472576471
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 4:43 pm
Interesting article
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-05/top-bank-lawyer-s-e-mails-show-washington-s-inside-game.html
How can Doug Cameron lose the plot, you gotta find it first.
Pedro
12 Sep 12 at 4:44 pm
Or they could cross the floor on a big issue vote.
But in the liar’s party, that might be considered a fate worse than death.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 4:46 pm
test
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 5:01 pm
Oooh yeah.
Sheridan missiled the whole thing and it hurt.
—————————————————
Communist Bob Katter – on the public tit since the 1970s – joined the union protest today, saying Newman had had a year to fix everything but hadn’t ‘created’ any ‘jobs’ (public service positions).
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 5:05 pm
Problems everywhere – mostly caused by Labor themselves – and what do they focus on?
Swan’s gone crackers.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 5:07 pm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/asylum-seeker-stats-reveal-success-of-howards-policy/story-fn59niix-1226472149454
But the latest figures show the Howard government’s Pacific Solution was almost 400 per cent more successful in stopping the flow of asylum-seeker boats than the current Gillard government plan.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 5:13 pm
They should just bring copies of the posters spotted in Plibersek’s office and hold it up when Labor starts when the wife of the dealer starts up with Abbott, Abbott, Abbott and reply in her dopey voice – “It’s just a joke”.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 5:23 pm
To say that I will enjoy the coming public executions of leftists is an understatement.
Browsing the The Totalitarian Daily and what do I see:
Junk Food Makers Will Keep Peddling A Lethal Diet Until Governments Take Them On.
The author is the ultra stupid cnut George Monbiot who having realised that global warming is dead has as new target in mind. I would force feed this swine like a goose until he popped.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 5:29 pm
Greens in the Senate now join Oakeshott, Windsor, Bandt, Wilkie and Thompson desperately trying to avoid the electorate.
Something else to look forward to on election night.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 5:31 pm
Send that goose off to Las Vegas…
Rabz
12 Sep 12 at 5:40 pm
Liar’s party agenda for next week : accuse Abbott of drawing a Mohammed cartoon.
She tried with the Aboriginals on Australia Day. When will she try with the musselmen?
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 5:42 pm
Jesus H Christ
We don’t really understand diet and brain chem. let alone body chemistry yet (we only found leptin about 10 years ago) and Moron-bot wants to ban/regulate/tax junk food ala “take on junk food peddlers”?
Fuck me. What a clown.
He is spreading his vile ideology everywhere.
No doubt he’d eat some organic/fairtrade shite chocolate by the barrel.
.
12 Sep 12 at 5:51 pm
Liar’s party agenda for next week : accuse Abbott of drawing a Mohammed cartoon.
Then Holocaust denial…
Steve D
12 Sep 12 at 5:53 pm
George is well intentioned but not always reliable.
Re fishing supertrawlers: I thought this blog was always sympathetic to recreational fishers.
Recreational fishers think stopping the supertrawler is a good idea:
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 5:56 pm
I am a recreational fisher and I think it is a terrible idea.
I like to eat fish. I like to eat! I like affordable food – as a spoilt 1st world resident. The trawler could do no more than to buy the quotas. Furthermore, with the absence of gill nets and long lines – it would have done little damage.
The Green’s plan to shut down fishing is also a terrible idea.
Do you really think they’ll just stop at commercial fishing?
What needs to be done is the recreational trust system like in NSW needs to be applied everywhere. Each area would set their own purchasable and transferable quotas.
We must also remove some of the more ridiculous fishing legislation, such as bag limits on introduced species (we pay to restock them anyway) and the ban on inland fishing except for carp, redfin and limited yabbie fishing. It is absurd that you cannot commercially catch Atlantic Salmon in Burrinjuck dam.
What we need to do is have quotas set up for ocean fishing for the entire exclusive economic zone through trusts.
Another absurdity is that you cannot grow endangered species (say, Silver Perch) on a farm near a river – because they might escape in a flood event – even if the river is part of the natural habitat (say Murray Darling).
Yep, you cannot “risk” letting an endangered species go back into its native habitat.
The fishing regs are stupid across the whole Commonwealth, both in State and Federal law.
Recreational fishing in WA is very strict – what for – recreational fishers make up bugger all of the total catch.
Fishing in NSW is locked up as a protected industry to a few monopolistic family businesses – obviously blame 16 years of ALP Governance. The rules for how you become a professional fisherman are ridiculous. Let’s say you lived up near Bourke and wanted to catch carp. Easy. The licence is cheap.
The real shit shocker is obtaining an “inland coxswains rating”. It basically amounts to another $2000 with all the licensing and workcover courses. To become licensed to do a public service (eliminate carp) which you can onsell, your fees are $6000 all up – low for most businesses but steep considering the positive externality you provide and your capital all up might be $15-$20k including the licences. What is so bad? You are required to do 900 hours on the water as a coxswains’ mate – you be able to check yabby traps or cast seine nets for carp – otherwise you cannot legally do the fishing yourself – you would require someone else to pilot your tinnie! Fucking outrageous!
Back to aquaculture – requiring a licence of any kind to farm native fish within their native riprarian habitat watersheds (or rivers where they have been introduced, say Murray Cod in the Yarra) is just totally unecessary and unjust.
.
12 Sep 12 at 6:23 pm
Sarah Palin speaking up for Americans, unlike Obama.
Bow-down Obama.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 6:24 pm
I note for the record that Steve has no interest in the science and statistics that have been martialled – and which comprehensively demolish the extremist Gillard government OMG TWAWLER panic.
For those joining us late, Steve is a life-long ‘conservative’ Liberal voter.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 6:26 pm
With an unblemished record in the military and of heterosexuality.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 6:32 pm
Steve is a life-long ‘conservative’ Liberal voter.
Yes and I’m the Tooth fairy.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 6:34 pm
For those joining us late, Steve is a life-long
conservative’ Liberal voterCnutDan
12 Sep 12 at 6:34 pm
Everybody lined up to stick the boot in
Love it!
Dan
12 Sep 12 at 6:36 pm
Looks like a few of our swarthy friends got the mix wrong on the felafels. The cops are currently helping them with their recipes.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 6:37 pm
Obama loves Muslims. Well, he was one before his, um, ‘baptism.’
But (DRUDGE)…
He really does dislike Jews.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 6:40 pm
Most recos for obvious self interested reasons would like all commercial fishing banned steve.
We catch our own fish to eat, is that what you’re going to do too? Everytime you want some fish fingers or fish and chips are you going to get your rod out and catch it first?
Don’t be stupid.
Also the idea that there’s some group that “represents” the ridiculously disparate group of people who fish is of course stupid in the extreme.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 6:40 pm
This trawler ( pelagic only ) legally purchased government allotted quotas.
What is the difference between 1 boat catching 10 tonnes or 10 boats catching 1 tonne each ?
And under vastly more stringent monitoring in regards to bye catch.
The big boat is better for the environment.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 6:40 pm
Bottom trawling vessels however should be banned for the damage they do.
It’s a disgrace they still operate.
It’s like dynamite fishing.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 6:50 pm
jump,
I propose that the seabeds and sea lanes basically be privatised.
It would also open up industry, encourage responsible environmental management and broaden the tax base WRT Georgist style LVT.
The problem the left have with good resource and economic policy is that the Coase theorem is basically incompatible with Marx.
.
12 Sep 12 at 6:57 pm
Efficiency and better quality because the super trawler will be processing and freezing the catch all on the one vessel. Smaller vessels need to spend time to get back to port for processing with catch sitting around with its guts still inside.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 7:03 pm
I’m listening.
Iv’e no idea what the fuck that mean and probably never will.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 7:05 pm
With respect to a land value tax on the unimproved capital value of the land. Given the size of the EEZ and the sheer volume of the water column above each unit of the seabed, it also gives us a chance to flatten the tax base a bit more.
Private ownership encourages good environmental stewardship.
Marxists think private property is evil. Many of them still infest the ALP and Greens. We can never expect good policy to arise from those parties.
.
12 Sep 12 at 7:15 pm
As an adjunct to the earlier bio-fuel discussion.
Greenpeace the child-killers.
Former co-founder Patrick Moore on Greenpeace blocking the introduction of Golden Rice.
Puts a whole new perspective on the vandals of CSIRO getting off with just a fine.
And these psychotic killers have the nerve to call for charges against climate sceptics for crimes against humanity.
Remember this when the next supercilious Greenpeace prat wants to accost you to “teach” you all about climate change.
Keith
12 Sep 12 at 7:16 pm
Furthermore, with the absence of gill nets and long lines – it would have done little damage.
It is an indictment showing how fucked up modern media reporting is. These huge trawlers are better for the environment because their activities can be much more cheaply monitored and given the catch size it is in the owner’s interest to maximise the cleanest catch possible. So while the media is painting a picture oceanic genocide(and yes I do know fish stocks are seriously depleted but that’s another argument and one I won’t have here with all the ranting anything greenie must be stupid bullshit) but large scale fishing like this is ultimately better for all concerned, including marine life.
Dead Soul
12 Sep 12 at 7:18 pm
The at a whim shutdown of what two days ago was a legitimate and “approved” fishing business, the unilateral shutdown of the live cattle industry and Conroys lamentations that Twitter is out of reach and the ALP’s power drunk easy talk about “regulating” the media I think shows the difference between the US and here right now. It shows starkly that we have a serious, serious lack of protection from the government in this country and that our national system is inherently flawed.
Consider that if Twitter was Australian the government would undoubtedly either have simply shut them down or completely knobbled them in response to the fabricated “community outrage” over “trolls” this week.
Yet Twitter and thousands of other “controversial” organisations like them operate with impunity in the US, confident of relative sovereignty.
If this government has shown us anything it’s that we’re not free in perpetuity and that we probably only feel free now because the relatively young commonwealth government simply hasn’t yet gotten around to banning and regulating everything it wants to.
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 7:23 pm
Damn straight, ask any farmer that took on his Dads farm and wants to pass it to his kids.
The green think every primary producer is a vandal with destructive intent, nothing could be further from the truth.
Where would we be without them.
———————————-
Keith, spot on.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 7:31 pm
The idea that recreational fisherman ‘support’ the trawler is a load of collectivist hogwash.
I would say, without doubt, that you couldn’t get 3 recreational fisherman to agree on the best way to tie on a hook.
Anyone who thinks they operate like a union and elect some representative to speak on their behalf betrays a lifetime of collectivist brainwashing that some type of fancy title and letterhead gives a person any authority.
Recreational fisherman are fiercely individual, and jealousy guard fishing spots, secrets and techniques. I have personally witnessed many boat-ramp unloadings where the fisherman loudly declares a particular location ‘fished out and no good anymore’ with several eskies of catch in the hull.
You couldn’t get 10 fisherman in a room to agree on what time of day is the best to fish at, let alone whether or not the particular legislation under discussion here was good or not.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 7:36 pm
What primary industries has the Gillard-Milne Government tried to shut down?
Northern Beef Cattle industry (based on a lie)
Southern trawl pelagic fishery (based on misinformation and hysteria)
Queensland commercial fishery (based on disputable ecological data)
Murray Darling citrus (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling rice (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling wheat (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling sheep (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water)
Murray Darling dairy (ignored reality of recent floods/price system for water
Coal mining (based on an ETS no other country follows)
Iron ore mining (because they are greedy)
Polymetallic porphyryous mining (greed, & have pumped up energy costs re ETS)
This Government is hell-bent on destroying industry with low levels of industry protections, high multipliers to other sectors, high export and foreign exchange earners and that have comparative advantage globally – some have near absolute advantage and proximity to markets which are/were the envy of the world.
.
12 Sep 12 at 7:37 pm
I only use snell and double blood knots myself, and on occasion, a perfection loop. Outside of rigging for saltwater gamefishing (ala four turn water knots) I don’t see the point.
You would not believe how bloody controversial my point of view is!
.
12 Sep 12 at 7:41 pm
Geebus!!
Watching the news, seems CanDo just kickstarted #Angry Deadwood.
Shouldn’t last long.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 7:42 pm
>You would not believe how bloody controversial my point of view is!
A strong hook knot is probably the only applicable use of the precautionary principle in the entire planet. Nothing is more crushing than losing a fish because your knot came undone.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 7:45 pm
>What primary industries has the Gillard-Milne Government tried to shut down?
You forgot Tasmanian forestry.
brc
12 Sep 12 at 7:46 pm
I only use snell and double blood knots myself, and on occasion, a perfection loop.
I don’t know how you can show your face in public!!
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 7:48 pm
The younguns are into these plastics now a days.
I’m more into an old Alvey and live mullet, prawn or yabby.
Catching the bait is half the hunt.
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 7:55 pm
Recreational fisherman are fiercely individual, and jealousy guard fishing spots, secrets and techniques.
So they’re just like surfers, brc.
dover_beach
12 Sep 12 at 8:00 pm
Just looked up the knot i’ve use all my life, taught to me by dad, aparantly it’s an “ improved clench knot ”
(disclaimer, I use only mono line )
jumpnmcar
12 Sep 12 at 8:08 pm
I hope Seafish Tasmania hits them for costs.
lotocoti
12 Sep 12 at 8:12 pm
Did anyone see Kevni on the ALPBC just now, talking to Sales?
Seriously, I thought he was going to explode in a toxic brew of unctuousness, smarminess and self-love, leaving gibbets of malevolent sanctimoniousness festooning the halls of whatever World Economic Forum wankfest he is currently attending. Why the hell a backbencher is there, wherever it is, was not explained, but there he was, name-dropping that he had just been talking to Gordon Brown, another sociopath, another man completely unable to relate to normal people, another man convinced that he is right, has always been right and that he in fact cannot be wrong.
At least in Brown’s company Kevni is a comparative babe in the woods: repellent plotter and schemer though he may be, he is not in Brown’s league, not having presided over a cabal of some of the most thuggish and rotten characters ever to besmirch British politic. But they are very similar in that after coveting the top job for years they both found that they were completely not up to it.
Amazingly, the true effect of the methods over many years of Brown’s henchcrew is better known to people ostensibly on the same side of politics than it is to the Tories: anyone who might oppose Gordon in any way had to be character-assassinated, briefed-against, blackmailed and threatened into submission, and spun, spun, spun out of whatever stance they had, or out of politics together. When the emails to and from the repulsive McBride to the likes of Balls, Draper and Whelan finally lifted the lid on this steaming pile of ordure, if Brown had had any moral aspect to his character he would have gone then. But of course he chose to hang on. As the egregious McTernan urges Gillard daily.
Truly, Rudd and Brown are made for each other, these scabs on their respective polities. No wonder they’re buddying up on the rubber-chicken circuit.
But as Kevni was telling the adoring Sales – Abbott would be a bad Prime Minister.
James in Melbourne
12 Sep 12 at 8:13 pm
They are total and absolute scum. anyone remotely involved with them is scum
JC
12 Sep 12 at 8:20 pm
Classic Cat comment, James.
———————————————-
Counting the golden rice and bio-fuel catastrophes, would the Greens’ death toll be getting near a million?
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 8:25 pm
Brave journalism watch:
White House Got Some Say Over Journalist’s Obama Story.
No fearless insider reportage for you.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 8:29 pm
Anybody who “encourages” Gillard and the ALP in general to keep going at this stage either hates the ALP or love themselves more than they care about the party.
A NSW style wipe out federally coupled with the total evaporation of the ALP’s traditional demographic, no significant government at any level and lack of ideas would make it rather difficult for the ALP to run a proper national campaign next time around, if ever again.
Gillard knows this and doesn’t care, she’s operating inline with her life long belief that the ALP is a discardable vehicle to be used to usher in the new era of 30%-35% of GDP government.
But surely somebody in the party is prepared to “endure” a term or three of Abbott for the sake of the longterm survival of the old party?
twostix
12 Sep 12 at 8:31 pm
>So they’re just like surfers, brc.
Many times one and the same!
brc
12 Sep 12 at 8:33 pm
Yes and I’m the Tooth fairy.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 6:34 pm
Well if that’s the case little Miss Entropy has a beef with you. In her view a molar is a real big tooth, and should be worth $5, not the piddly $3 that you, who as a fairy is apparently a ‘fail’, gave her last Sunday.
Entropy
12 Sep 12 at 8:44 pm
Three bucks for a tooth these days?!
When I was a boy…
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 8:46 pm
I’m not sure it’s a liberty quote, but I freaking love it!
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 8:50 pm
Noticeably, the news coverage of the ruckus in QLD (and NSW) over sackings and cost cutting generally, has completely skated over the inevitable need for any responsible conservative government – when it replaces a Labor one – to do the right thing and bring the state or the nation’s accounts back into some semblance of respectability and, to borrow a term from the spinmeisters themselves, sustainability.
True to form, perspective is the first casualty of this class war, so it’s back to the old meme of “brutal uncaring conservative governments” hacking their way through the living flesh of the sacred public service.
No recognition of the bulking up of the public payroll with Departments of Climate Correctness or Departments of Let’s Look After Every Aspect of Your Life And Make You Totally Dependent And Submissive To While Voting For Us.
blogstrop
12 Sep 12 at 8:51 pm
Little Miss Entropy will have to show significant productivity improvement with her chores if she wants a wage increase in the order of 67%. And if she stamps her little foot over that then she’s nothing but a welfare leech and needs to go get a job.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 8:51 pm
The complaint was done in a devastatingly cute way, Gab [i mean tooth fairy]. Think the lolly ad where the girl asks her father not to chop the dinosaur. Or Shirley Temple.
Entropy
12 Sep 12 at 8:54 pm
LOL she sounds delightful, Ent.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 8:56 pm
I tried, and failed. Instant vomitous turn off. I don’t know how you tortured yourself into watching it.
Tony has nothing to fear.
Helen Armstrong
12 Sep 12 at 8:59 pm
I like the new class Coalition voters. Talking to my local tradies of late how much he cares about the public servants getting fat wads of go away money that whining.
The Liars Party can have all the Steve from Brisbane, we got the better part of the trade.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
Obama will apologize to the Libyans shortly.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
hetheyToken
12 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
I know the look, little miss Token knows how to turn cute to 11 when she wants something.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:02 pm
I’ve caught surfers a few times while fishing for tailor in the surf in winter. Three 4/0 ganged hooks. Lucky for them the hooks were only through the leg of their steamers.
Don’t know the names of my knots (I use 2 types depending on whether the hooks have eyes or not)
Septimus
12 Sep 12 at 9:04 pm
…then send the records down the memory hole and count on the stenographers to cover, like this lot that spurred on the crowd:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:05 pm
Newman’s hurry to sack them, after election promises to the contrary, is what will help Labor federally. Who can doubt that Abbott would be acting with similar haste?
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 9:06 pm
If anyone is a misogynist it’s Kevin Rudd.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:06 pm
You beat me to it, Gab. An absolute disgrace.
dover_beach
12 Sep 12 at 9:07 pm
Wow:
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:08 pm
Can anyone comment authoritatively on this?
Some say that China is heading for a schism. There are opposing forces at work at a high level, and things are not going well in the context of shrinking production. Hanyu commented about that recently, and I hear whispers from Chinese expats to the effect that things are likely to turn ugly.
blogstrop
12 Sep 12 at 9:08 pm
I’m referring to the Ambassador’s murder.
dover_beach
12 Sep 12 at 9:10 pm
I fucking hope so.
Most people here think Newman is a hero for firing 15,000 mooching swines. I think he should be shot for cowardice for not firing every single one of them.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 9:11 pm
You’re going to have to answer to candy for that.
But actually, I can’t see what it’s based on either…Care to enlighten me (and candy)?
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 9:12 pm
The good faith the Cairo embassy invested in those “mis-understood” muslims got them.
The graffiti after the invasion:
Romney will be getting out the 3am advert Hillary ran against Obama after this event.
Token
12 Sep 12 at 9:13 pm
Obama snubbing Netanyahu is a signal to Iran they’ve got his blessing to go for it.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:18 pm
Of course he is. Atractive women rejected him his whole life and he hates them passionately for that. The fact that most women can bench press more than him has also caused many issues.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 9:19 pm
Entropy, the rule of remuneration has always been the largest coin of the realm for the largest tooth.
Little Miss Entropy is allowed $2 per molar. The bicuspids and incisors are worth only $1.50. Gab, you’ve been overcharged. Demand refunds.
Which brings me to the introduction of a $5, $10, and $20 coin. Minted at literally cents each, they come out of the Mint at face value. The government gets the difference.
I’ve been waiting for it since this mob got in.
Winston Smith
12 Sep 12 at 9:20 pm
I’m sure some here have commented before that they think his wife is a pleasant enough looking woman. And she has heaps of money…
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 9:29 pm
kevni is still a bit of a sweetheart. perhaps he’s a bit confused about his direction in life that’s all, at the moment. there again the Labor Party seems to lack direction and purpose too.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 9:35 pm
Rudd touched up the female staff at a night club.
He was dreadful in the way he shouted at a female flight attendant becuase he didn’t get the food he wanted (oh yeah Shorten has form attacking a poor Asian pie shop lady)
Heard him get very snarly towards a female reporter when she pressed him to get an answer to a question he repeatedly avoided. Spoke to her like she was a lackey.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:36 pm
She’s not Nicola Roxon. So there’s that.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 9:37 pm
Mind you, don’t let LME know about this coin – legal tender and all.
Winston Smith
12 Sep 12 at 9:40 pm
I think Obama gas got cocky again.
I think he believes the shite the MSM were saying Sunday and Monday about da permanent bounce.
So he stiffs Netanyahu again cos Bibi made him look like a petulant lightweight in da Oval Oraffice last year.
I susoect this is going to damage Obama significantly.
I’m just waiting for Mittens to put the boot in.
He should do it himself before the ads start.
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 9:43 pm
The side problem to the tooth episode was that Littlest Miss Entropy had also lost one of her lower front teeth at the same time, and it was tiny, especially compared with Little Miss Entropy’s great big molar.
But in our communist household, there is no differentiation on the quality or volume of production: “…to each according to his needs” applies to all (except me of course, for which ‘”from each according to his ability” applies).
entropy
12 Sep 12 at 9:44 pm
Gab, I’m sure there are many, many men who have been on the receiving end of Rudd’s sharp tongue.
Look, I seriously don’t like the guy and think it would be a disaster for him to come back as leader. (You will claim I am lying: you would be wrong.) But that said, I’ve never thought that his behaviour was misogynistic in particular. Just general asshattery..
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 9:50 pm
So let me get this right, Ent. Littlest Miss got the same amount$$ as Little Miss even though the tooth was much much much smaller than Little Miss’ tooth?
Doesn’t pay to be in the Kids Union does it, heh.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:51 pm
SFB I wasn’t expecting a different reply to what you have posted. Imagine the outrage!! if that was Abbott!
Hypocrite.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 9:53 pm
No more money for dislodged tusks at our place. Carbon tax has put an end to that .
Pickles
12 Sep 12 at 9:55 pm
While I am telling kid’s stories, I will share the latest one about Littlest Miss Entropy:
Her first grade class has been having parent’s come in and describe what they do. I will leave the story of the neurosurgeon’s tale for another time. Anyway, the kids then have to make a presentation to the class (in dress no less) on what they want to be when they grow up (apprently they were only allowed to be some type of community worker, and the teacher had a handy little questionnaire to help them with the talk.
Littlest Miss Entropy got Miss Entropy to help her write her answers down, and of course they ignored the PC instructions (i am so proud!).
Q1: What do you want to be when you grow up?
A: A ballerina.
Q2: Why do you want to do that job?
A; Because ballerinas are pretty, and always wear dance clothes
Q3: How does your job help the community?
A; Because people look at you and feel happy.
Q4: What do you have to do to get your job?
A: Listen carefully to your teacher, and remember to always point your toes.
Words we can all live by.
entropy
12 Sep 12 at 9:58 pm
Little Miss will be a diplomat.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 10:04 pm
your girls sound adorable, Entropy
candy
12 Sep 12 at 10:05 pm
gotta love the diversity of topics at the Cat. Me I’ve always used a simple blood knot, never lost a fish because the knot gave way
papachango
12 Sep 12 at 10:06 pm
US Ambassador and 3 staffers killed in Islamist attack on U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 10:10 pm
Gosh. I just saw Tony Jones saying that on Lateline tonight, Clive Palmer says Campbell Newman won’t last til the end of the year.
Clive’s gone well and truly rogue.
Quite enjoyable from where I’m sitting.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 10:15 pm
Maybe it was the end of next year?
There was “year” in there anyway.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 10:15 pm
Obummer’s overt disdain for Israel and the killing of US embassy staff by ignorant Islamist hordes will certainly change the tenor of this media smothered presidential election campaign.
It’s 1980 all over again.
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 10:19 pm
Good lord. They really are barbarians.
[caution - graphic]
http://twitter.com/Gaza_Mansour/status/245831915494576128
http://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/245808058243096576/photo/1
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/09/12/nyheter/utenriks/libya/egypt/23373322/
Some “Arab Spring” ya got goin’ on there – thanks Leftards.
I fucking cannot believe my fucking government apologized to these fucking barbarians.
sdog
12 Sep 12 at 10:20 pm
“Clive’s gone well and truly rogue.”
perhaps he has thyroid problem causing him fuzzy thoughts – he’s very unhealthily overweight
candy
12 Sep 12 at 10:23 pm
Why?
It rather punctures the leftist smear that the Libs are beholden to Palmer.
Newman taxed Palmer’s business which is why he’s aggrieved.
The MRRT will be repealed but not Newman’s increase in royalties and Palmer knows it.
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 10:25 pm
Clive Palmer is great entertainment on many fronts. His mere existence makes our foes froth and go all tourette. When he builds the Titanic he ought build a fuck off big jetty so he can nose it up to the beach at Coolum so close that you can make the green on the 4th from the foredeck.
Pickles
12 Sep 12 at 10:26 pm
Australia’s highest profile backbencher knows he is running out of time. And most of Caucus would still rather lose the election than vote for him.
I loved the way Sales asked KRudd for his insights into China at the moment. That worked well for him in Copenhagen.
H B Bear
12 Sep 12 at 10:33 pm
Clives on Lateline, here we go.
Pickles
12 Sep 12 at 10:44 pm
Yep, Rudd sure is a misogynist creep and fashion critic too.
big dumb fu
12 Sep 12 at 10:47 pm
LOL.
Steve loves Rudd. Always has.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 10:58 pm
Thanks papachango.
Googled the Blood Knot and found that’s what I use for hooks with eyes, and for attaching rings and lures. Google also tells me that I’m using a Snell Knot for flatted hooks.
Septimus
12 Sep 12 at 10:58 pm
Clive is Qld opposition leader. Tone is very nervous.
Pickles
12 Sep 12 at 11:05 pm
Rudd reduced an RAAF flight attendant to tears over a chicken dinner and became the first and only Australian prime minister written up in a flight captain’s log for misbehaviour, Steve, you certifiable fraud.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:10 pm
Good God.
ISLAMISTS DRAG DEAD BODY OF US AMBASSADOR IN THE STREETS.
Picture.
I wonder if Barack Hussein will apologise to them again.
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:17 pm
Islamist filth.
Gab
12 Sep 12 at 11:21 pm
See my comment @ 10:20pm, CL.
sdog
12 Sep 12 at 11:21 pm
CL, reports indicate his tirades were not limited to females.
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 11:22 pm
He reduced male Air Force personnel to tears as well Steve?
JamesK
12 Sep 12 at 11:29 pm
The Punch:
Has Kevin got woman trouble?
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:29 pm
Maxine Mckew was and is also an unwavering Rudd supporter. No wonder she lost her seat.
JC
12 Sep 12 at 11:32 pm
The Arab Spring has been a magnificent success. We are now in no doubt whatsoever that Islam s death cult that must be extinguished with extreme prejudice.
Apologies for any offence.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 11:34 pm
Nonsense. He’s fine. He looks like he could win the MYC marathon held next month.
JC
12 Sep 12 at 11:37 pm
Is that how misogyny is judged?
I am reluctant to defend Rudd against anything, but going to a strip club, getting pissed and trying to touch a stripper is not prima facie evidence of misogyny in my books, especially if (as was probably the case) it was the first time Kevin had ever been in such a venue and he didn’t have a clue what was acceptable behaviour.
Making a RAAF female steward cry is also not conclusive – obviously, we don’t know if the same words would have been used if it was a male steward. The crying doesn’t tell us much one way or the other.
As the Punch notes, he has some female defenders, and but quite a few men have also lined up and said he was impossible to work with.
steve from brisbane
12 Sep 12 at 11:44 pm
Rudd’s one of those bitter and twisted lezos who hates the attractive straight girls. He’s a bull dyke stuck in Aunt Flo’s body. It’s very confusing for everyone involved.
Infidel Tiger
12 Sep 12 at 11:46 pm
Stepford
Do you ever read you own comments? Fuck you’re anal retentive doofus.
JC
12 Sep 12 at 11:50 pm
Now, now, there’s no need to carry on about poor kevni like that – he’s already been toppled from his job.
candy
12 Sep 12 at 11:56 pm
What Punch said:
C.L.
12 Sep 12 at 11:56 pm
Wiktionary:
JamesK
SteveC
12 Sep 12 at 11:59 pm
Just for posterity:
September 11, 2012
U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement
No comment.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 12:13 am
SteveC: “reports indicate his tirades were not limited to females”
Yours Truly: “He reduced male Air Force personnel to tears as well Steve?”
What SteveC likes to imagine what I said: ‘misogyny is making female flight attendants cry’
I’m devastated.
I’ve been pwned
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 12:15 am
Well that statement contains a fabulous contradiction already – is that the best the USA can offer for its own people sacrificed today on the altar of appeasement?
Mick Gold Coast QLD
13 Sep 12 at 12:18 am
Complete lack of reaction from the leftard trolls re the trawler ‘decision’.
Perhaps such a craven rejection of ‘the science’ (sfb idiot) and actual science (jarrah) sticks in the craw a bit.
Total leftard ideological wankers..
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 12:23 am
I think the staff were in fear of their lives after the forst was killed.
As it turned out when they tried to escape they including the ambassador were murdered.
It doesn’t deserve criticism until we know more.
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 12:28 am
forst=first
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 12:29 am
Where’s Steve Kates’ posting on this disappeared to?
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 12:30 am
Not sure about this one, Lazlo. There are a few articles at The Conversation indicating some genuine scientific dissent about possible inadequacies in the assessment of the quota and the use of a super trawler. I can’t link easily at the moment.
Steve from Brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 12:33 am
They bought the fucking quotas you moron! The ship was to provide efficiencies. Stop quoting far leftwing sources as though they are some sort of voice of authority.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 12:36 am
AHAHAHAHA you sound just like a denier.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 12:40 am
Someone made a minor short film bagging Muslims, who deserve to be bagged mercilessly for their mad, mad war on everyone who is “not one of us”.
Mobs of Muslims, not Presbyrerians or bikies or Manchester United fans, stormed two US Embassies in the Middle East. They killed Americans because they were offended by someone in a far off place calling them names.
What more do we need to know before offering criticism?
Mick Gold Coast QLD
13 Sep 12 at 12:42 am
What a wanker. Is that the best you can do? A few articles.. And then you pontificate about ‘scientists say..’
Well, I tell you what pea brain. I am a scientist.
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 12:51 am
Gateway Pundit reports that Hillary Clinton just said that “protesters” were taking ambassador’s body to the hospital. Mmm.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 12:53 am
My point was the statement (in itself clearly wrong-headed) may have been made to save embassy staff.
A statement from a hostage saying his captors deserve fairer treatment doesn’t generally mean that the hostage should be criticised for being an appeaser.
It may be that the embassy in Cairo held no fears for the imminent safety of its staff but we don’t know yet.
Did it get State Department approval?
We don’t know yet.
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 12:55 am
Pea brain – the authorities are from IMAS and fisheries down south.
Of course, with your usual piety, you would know better. Wanker.
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 12:55 am
James, Obama has personally apologised for free speech.
In fact, the right to denigrate the beliefs of others is enshrined in the US Constitution and is non-negotiable. Obama ought to know – denigrating people’s religious beliefs is one of his signature talents.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 1:14 am
BTW It is entirely possible that the ‘crusade’ against the trawler was orchestrated by Greenpeace/GetUp hired botnets.
This is easy to do. Recent cyber campaigns such as anonymous have done so. The majority of the world’s spam is botnet generated. Botnets are responsible for most cybercrime and click fraud.
Botnets can be rented for as little as $10 per hour. It would have been trivial for Greepeace/GetUp to utilise a botnet to befuddle idiot government ministers and MP’s.
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 1:15 am
What the f*** is going on here?
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 1:47 am
Obama’s Going to Las Vegas
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 1:55 am
Why are y’all deleting whole posts now? It’s bad enough when the US Embassy (State Department) does it, but… et tu, Cat?
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 2:28 am
POTUS whose party booed God says US ‘rejects denigration of religious beliefs’
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 2:36 am
Who’d have guessed? The Greens and Lee Rhiannon are a lightning rod for far-left whackos, including 911 Truthers.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 3:11 am
Fairfax escalates 1977 punchgate, enlisting Michelle Grattan to run the latest story:
So the woman’s chief advocate (a former Labor candidate) believes her. She told him about it, but no-one else and made no complaint until now about … what, exactly? The desperate Labor smear gets down in the gutter.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 3:37 am
Super-trawler decision ‘staggering’:
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 3:48 am
Botnets can be rented for as little as $10 per hour. It would have been trivial for Greepeace/GetUp to utilise a botnet to befuddle idiot government ministers and MP’s.
Or to give them the excuse of “widespread public support”?
perturbed
13 Sep 12 at 4:25 am
The murder of the US ambassador to Libya was probably a planned attack by Al Qaeda:
Al-Zawahiri’s call for revenge for al-Libi’s death was made on Monday, less than 24 hours before the Benghazi murders.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 5:45 am
David Patch ran as the Liar’s party candidate in Wentworth when Turnbull won the seat so, like, totally impartial. Funny how Grattan failed to mention that.
Keith
13 Sep 12 at 6:07 am
Lazlo’s a scientist? Funny, he disagrees violently with a huge slab of his cohort when it comes to climate science (if I recall correctly), yet when I indicate that maybe the dissenters in the fisheries matter have a point, I’m not sure yet, I’m being outrageously anti science?
What I can say is the stakes in the trawler matter are small; I am not even sure of the exact fate of the fish. The stakes in AGW are huge. Making the wrong call on one is nothing like making the wrong call on the other.
Steve from Brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 7:02 am
JoNova’s account has been suspended. I wonder who she offended?
Cato the Elder
13 Sep 12 at 7:35 am
What utter bullshit especially from a Lawyer. It’s heresay.
“But Mr Patch, who won the SRC presidency in 1975, said he had been Ms Ramjan’s campaign manager in 1977, and she had told him about the Abbott incident immediately after it happened.”
He writes in today’s Age: ”I did not see the incident, but I was nearby “.
Where are the eye witnesses to the punches?, where are the photos of the holes in the wall?
No evidence = it didn’t happen.
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 7:36 am
Grattan’s Labor lawyer:
“I did not see the incident… So, I am a witness…”
LOL.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 7:38 am
Flashback:
Hillary Clinton on Libya – Mission Accomplished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 7:49 am
Your full of it SoB. Your picking sides in a vain attempt to be on the ‘right’ side of an argument based upon 30 years of data when the climate cycle can be measured in thousands of years. You bought the doom lock stock and barrel because your a stooge.
Dan
13 Sep 12 at 7:57 am
The trawler cancellation after years of setting it up, is probably a trade off for the Greens supporting off shore processing. The ALP governs by “deals” and favours.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 8:09 am
The fish get eaten. That’s what their fate is.
Early out of the blocks for stupidest comment of the day, I venture.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 8:16 am
“I did not see the incident… So, I am a witness…””
It’s all a lot of rubbish put about by Catholic haters and Tony Abbott haters and Tony Abbott should just sue David Marr and the Age and be done with it.
And Ms Gillard can sue Pickering and Mike Smith if she has a mind to and be done with it.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 8:18 am
No what is small is your understanding of business investment and risk.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 8:29 am
Ha! Yesterday’s witness who didn’t see anything directly, but was sure that he would have heard about it if something had happened, was CL’s “impeccable” witness who “detroyed” the claim.
Today’s witness, who didn’t see anything directly, is a non witness for CL, even though his point – having heard an early complaint by the victim about it – has relevance.
Bush lawyering is always at its best at this blog.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:35 am
Having said that, the whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
But it’s funny watching people get into a fury about it.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:36 am
Former Labor Minister Gary Johns is rightly scathing:
WHY would anyone bother to invest in this country ever again? First the ill-fated live cattle trade ban by hapless Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig, and now Sustainability Minister Tony Burke knowingly introduces a piece of legislation to ban a trawler that, under existing law, cannot take more than a sustainable catch.
The Abel Tasman could trawl the Southern Ocean for a thousand years and not cause harm to the fish stock. Existing law prevents it from so doing. If it or other vessels have depleted stocks elsewhere, they have done so not because of the size and efficiency of the trawler, but because those places are poorly governed. Australia is not West Africa but, by goodness, it is starting to look like it.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 8:37 am
Sounds like the standard of reporting the media patck depended upon when Gillard’s advisers made up statements that lead up to the Australia Day riot.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 8:37 am
More from the John’s article:
The advice from the Australian Fisheries Management Authority is crystal clear:
It is clear this is a cleaner, greener, more efficient and easier to manage system of fishing.
Just think how fishing COOPs across the country have been blocked from improving their processes and cutting costs. Their comptitors who will legally able to fish outside our territorial waters will now have a technological advantage over Aus based fishermen.
Its a disaster.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 8:41 am
Warmies exaggerating the danger of drought? Who would ever have thought…
Rafe
13 Sep 12 at 8:44 am
Yes as it was watching you get your panties in a knot over the discussion of the Gillard/AWU scandal here.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 8:44 am
I get the feeling the lily-white pundits that make up Lefty Media Pack in the US will be race-baiting real soon because if this narrative takes off…
[H/t Eugene Vokokh & Instapundit]
Token
13 Sep 12 at 8:47 am
Anyone noting a pattern here?
These vile genocidal morons are now unrepentantly fucking with the food supply and I’m not just referring to fishing.
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 8:48 am
The difference between Sheridans witness is that they are no fan of Abbott. Grattans witness is a Labor lawyer and former Labor party candidate.
When we’re talking about hearsay, credibility + believability is the deciding factor.
Then there’s the small matter of the primary witness having talked about Abbott a lot in the 35 years since it happened, but only remembering this dramatic detail now, right when Labor need to construct a dialogue about Abbott being a woman-hating thug.
Keep talking, Labor and sycophants. Smearing the opposition did Anna Bligh *so well*.
60/40 2PP in the Federal election is achievable. But only if Labor continue their good work.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 8:54 am
True, as you say the story is pathetic, and the journalists presenting it as news are doing more damage to their reputation than Abbott.
What is staartling is the willingness of the dinosaurs of FauxFacts to peddle what we agree is pathetic.
As Bolta notes, it is clear this is part of a coordinate campaign direct from the Liars Party. Yet the Fauxfact dinosaurs are so whipped they will report any scrap they are directed to.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 8:55 am
“Bush lawyering is always at its best at this blog.”
And what is always at its best at your blog SOB. Is it the global bedwetting, possum snaps, cooking tips or something else?
Your 10,000th post is bound to be an intellectual game changer. A tipping point if you like.
DavidJ
13 Sep 12 at 8:55 am
A personal account of punchgate by labor lawyer and star witness David Patch:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-habits-die-hard-20120912-25snx.html
Dangph
13 Sep 12 at 8:55 am
It’s all so convenient.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 8:59 am
Jennifer Rubin has an excellent article with some important analysis on the attack in Libya:
Token
13 Sep 12 at 9:00 am
But let’s focus more on the murderous reaction than the “provocation”. Further suggestions that this was an al Qaeda operation:
…federal sources told CNN that an Al-Qaeda-affiliated group responsible for a previous armed assault on the consulate may have taken advantage of the demonstration to attack on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks of 2001…
The inflammatory video, called “Innocence of Muslims,” depicts the Prophet as a fraud obsessed with sex and violence. When angry protestors marched on the embassy in Cairo, they chanted “We are all Osama” in honor of the slain terror leader.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:02 am
Follow on from Gab’s article, things to ponder:
Jennifer Rubin:
Victor Davis Hanson:
Token
13 Sep 12 at 9:16 am
Of course the steaks are small, they’re fish steaks. If it was a whaling super trawler the steaks would be huge.
Rob
13 Sep 12 at 9:20 am
What’s Deveny been doing with her time since her abysmal performance on Q&A?
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:27 am
Some of the “protesters” seem to have been very specifically armed for an assault. It also disturbingly coincided with a suicide attack on the new Somali president by (al-Qaeda aligned) al-Shabab. It would be nice to think it is just coincidental rather than part of a pattern of networked events.
badm0f0
13 Sep 12 at 9:27 am
(Comment in moderation so I’ll try again with word in tweet adjusted)
What’s Deveny been doing with her time since her abysmal performance on Q&A?
Now why would she deem it necessary to tweet that? I really don’t want to know what she does 24/7.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:33 am
From Dangph’s link:
I wonder where David Patch stands on the character and suitability of a former bent union lawyer.
lotocoti
13 Sep 12 at 9:38 am
Yep.
Any policy of the Greens and their fellow travellers has, as its end result, the death of humans.
It’s not just the failure to eat a load of fish, it means the competition for alternate foods moves us against the poorest people on the planet.
Winston SMITH
13 Sep 12 at 9:46 am
Start a rumor that Gillard smokes and does’nt use sunscreen
Tal
13 Sep 12 at 9:50 am
I thought he was a Labor lawyer himself. If so, probably too busy creating slush funds and talking miners out of their death benefits funds to stop and assess character. What, with all the hearsay evidence to re-construct, and all that.
Whatever it takes, comrades, whatever it takes.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 9:50 am
First thought to be the work of Copts, then Jews but
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 10:12 am
Isn’t the problem with the trawler that the science isn’t settled?
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 10:12 am
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 10:12 am
Gab
Snap
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 10:14 am
Denialist shill.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 10:16 am
anyone else still
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 10:44 am
having problems with “connection error” notices, very very slow loading, recent comments list disappearing, comments not updating, comments RSS not updating, comments disappearing, very very very slow loading?
Yep. I’m sure Jacques is onto it.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 10:48 am
OK i will try again
ISLAMISTS DRAG DEAD BODY OF AMBASSADOR THROUGH STREETS
CL these pictures are very confronting, doubly so because he doesn’t look dead to me. His left arm is up in two pictures, and his head is not flopping over, as I would expect if he really was dead.
I have not seen a dead person but I have handled very many dead animals and these pictures are not representative of a dead body.
Ms Clinton said they were taking him to hospital – maybe that is true – because he was still alive.
Poor bugger.
Helen Armstrong
13 Sep 12 at 10:48 am
Yes sfb, PhD (Science), and I can think for myself. Your qualifications are?
Lazlo
13 Sep 12 at 11:00 am
The Bunyip is back.
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 11:02 am
I can see you are trying humour, but really should you be laughing at the fact this business venture will go bust due to a knee jerk reaction by a government to flint-hearted lobbiests?
What we should be asking is:
* Why did the government issue a licence?
* Why did they wait until the tenderer for the licence had committed to commercial leases?
Token
13 Sep 12 at 11:07 am
According to ABC (Australia) News:
Of course if you rely on dodgy websites like the gateway pundit for news, as CL does, then you are quite likely to come up with incorrect conclusions. The point is, it is a photo, without any explanation. Any conclusions you draw from the photo are merely speculation.
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 11:13 am
Rabz,
I said that last night.
The ALP and Greens are hell bent on destroying primary industry.
They have the hide to run candidates in regional areas.
What have they tried to ruin lately?
Murray darling Wheat, northern cattle industry, murray darling sheep, citrus and rice, also tas forestry, WA, VIC and QLD coal, WA iron ore, NSW and SA polymetallic systems, NT and SA uranium, fisheries around the whole nation and in the EEZ – all good export earners, with comparative advantage and some with near absolute advantage. These industries have high inter industry multipliers and low levels of industry protection.
It isn’t just the food supply they are mucking about with.
They’ve literally destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs in the midst of a weak global economy and tightening labour market rules.
.
13 Sep 12 at 11:14 am
The difference is that Sheridan’s source was a Labor diehard who hates Abbott.
You are consistently the stupidest commenter at this blog, pipped only by Monty occasionally.
I do, however, acknowledge your quiet retreat from defending your hero Kevin Rudd – which blew up in your face last night.
———————————————-
Meanwhile…
Hefty NSW Central Coast MP Deb O’Neill says the word “she” is sexist.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:16 am
Flashback to April: Obama gives Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt $1.5 billion.
Mission accomplished.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:19 am
Okay. If that’s wrong then there is nothing wrong with the Pickering cartoons and we’ll call the PM “he”.
.
13 Sep 12 at 11:21 am
Yes, really:
Greens seek apology over trawler job losses.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:24 am
As Jimmy Durante used to say, “everybody wants to get in on the act”.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:27 am
I’m surprised the Greens aren’t making the sacked workers apologise for wanting to be involved in the fishing industry instead of basket weaving.
Keep talking, Greens, 5% primary is within your reach.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 11:30 am
I’m sure the Tasmanian workers put out of work will be p*ssing themselves over SteveC’s joke.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 11:30 am
She wanted to prove to all the world that she’s all class.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 11:32 am
But it’s still the ALP who put a stop to the supertrawler so stupidly so suddenly after all the years of preparation – the Greens did not actually stop it, they protested. Labor has to take responsibility.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 11:34 am
Good grief. Everyone knows you are a fantasy prone resident in an alternative reality and think you triumph in disputes by mere repetition and self declaration that you’re the winner who has “destroyed” the opponent.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 11:38 am
New anti-Abbott source – a loyal Labor foot-soldier – a dogmatic hater:
Note the trick: homos and feminists were aligned with the left. So what he’s saying is that Abbott attacked the left (yawn) – but he breaks down ‘the left’ into saleable, bite-sized constituent grievance groups.
Ergo: at university David Patch was well known for hating Catholics, women and righties.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:40 am
Like I said, Steve, thanks for backing down on your claims last night that Rudd is loved by women. Now we await a walk-back on your claim that a hot summer will turn the Australian people against Abbott.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:43 am
This comment keeps getting knocked back at Fairfax. What am I doing wrong?
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 11:44 am
Rasmussen: Obama ‘bounce’ disappears.
Looks like banning God and celebrating the Russian Navy didn’t lock in any enduring support.
Meanwhile…
Polls show Romney soars with independent voters.
54 percent to 40 percent.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:46 am
Re this blog: I’m sure Jacques is a nice guy and don’t take this personally or anythink, but I find myself pretty amused by the way the most aggressively free enterprise, private-business-always-does-better-than-government blog has a pretty unenviable record for unreliability (the great server crash of whatever year; this current transfer which could hardly have gone less smoothly – no offence again, it’s no great skin off my nose that anti Federal Labor commentary is having a harder time getting published!)
But I have concluded that the only way to improve the performance of Catallaxy is to nationalise it. Do I have a seconder for the motion?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 11:49 am
Wow. You really are a whiny little bitch, Steve from Brisbane. SFB.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:51 am
774 Local Radio continues the Luv Meeja love-in with an interview with David Marr. Had to switch off.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 11:59 am
Gab, I should add that I assume that Jacques himself has no responsibility for the current problems. So I’m not having a go at him; just find it amusing in a bit of a “meta” way.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 11:59 am
By the way, Gab, is it OK if I start calling you a bitch too? I need to know if that would be misogynistic or not.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 12:02 pm
Eastwood has Obama’s measure:
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 12:03 pm
So, the actually existing Catallaxy is not as good as some really cool fantasy Catallaxy that doesn’t exist but would work better and would presumably be cheaper. That’s just great, Steve.
Dangph
13 Sep 12 at 12:06 pm
Cold-Hands, I don’t know why you bother.
I decided a couple of years ago that if I had to listen to inanity, it may as well be inanity that isn’t going to make me upset and angry.
I just listen to 1116 SEN now. All sport. No sanctimonious Mitchell & AW, no more 774 ALPBC for this little black duck.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
13 Sep 12 at 12:06 pm
Perhaps you’d be better off asking your Plebeserk, Grattan or Milne.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 12:09 pm
SfB,
The answer to that is: Yes you fucking moron, you are a misogynist, therefore anything that you say is misogynistic.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
13 Sep 12 at 12:09 pm
Some youngster in the office switched the wireless to JJJ the other day and I had to listen the afternoon current affairs show they have – The Hatchet Job I think it is called.
My God, it wouldn’t have past muster in North Korea it was so off the planet. Absolutely incredible. Proof positive that the voting age should be raised to 25 and only to those who have been in private employment for 3+ years.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 12:10 pm
The blog itself is not very free-enterprise though, is it Steve?
There are no ads here. If there were, they would easily pay for decent hosting.
Catallaxy experiences problems because it has huge traffic and no income with which to pay for hosting.
Yobbo
13 Sep 12 at 12:11 pm
Jacques hosts it for free, because he’s a nice guy. But he’s not so nice that he’s going to shell out $500 a month out of his own wallet to host it.
Yobbo
13 Sep 12 at 12:12 pm
The blog would have a more manageable burden without the over-indulged troll herd, who add so much to the comments numbers but nothing to enlightenment.
blogstrop
13 Sep 12 at 12:18 pm
I will have to change my approach then to “why is this blog run on such an appalling socialist model when it is always promoting the benefits of free enterprise. Hypocrites!”
(Don’t take any of this too seriously.)
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 12:23 pm
The brutal murder of a US ambassador, and the immediate apology by President Obama to the Muslims is a perfect example of how dangerous Leftism is in a position of authority, an ideology based on the most fantastic delusions, but which invariably brings ruin, carnage and death.
Fisky
13 Sep 12 at 12:24 pm
Just following the dictum of “Know thine enemy”.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 12:29 pm
Disappeared into the ether.
This accusation has about as much credence as this smear:
http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2012/05/death-threat-fictions
An old favourite reworked with, as usual, dedicated assistance from Labor’s JournoList cheerleaders.
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 12:35 pm
53 seconds that should end a presidency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_AAMa_X2dM&feature=related
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 12:50 pm
From my BFF Charles, Romney press material handed out includes Romney responses to theoretical questions:
Charles asks: how is this point highlighted different from what the Embassy (and Obama) has said?
When it comes to foreign policy stuff, Romney just seems to shoot from the hip to try to make out he is “tougher” than Obama.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 12:50 pm
As he should. News reports I saw said there were no Marines at the embassy. WTF?
.
13 Sep 12 at 12:54 pm
Hey, how is Charles Johnson’s plan for a Final Solution in Europe against the Muslims going these days?
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 1:00 pm
Rudd should did pounce on the opportunity afforded by Julia Gillard’s bereavement.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 1:01 pm
SURE did pounce
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 1:03 pm
“Rudd should did pounce on the opportunity afforded by Julia Gillard’s bereavement.”
I read that CL and Kevin Rudd still won’t say Ms Gillard’s name, only say “prime minister”. He’s allowed to be bitter isn’t he? it’s only human.
I don’t think anyone seriously thinks he can make a comeback when we’re in an election year now and Ms Gillard is wedded to her job.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 1:12 pm
JJJ is Radio National for hipsters.
H B Bear
13 Sep 12 at 1:17 pm
Gold – you just gotta lerve this exchange on da ALPBC:
Mr Ruff had to be pushed by host Leigh “Cow” Sales to mention the Prime Monster’s name.
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 1:17 pm
Michelle Grattan on Radio National this morning (yay, ABC) thought that Kevin looking opportunistic while Julia is on bereavement leave may well increase antipathy towards him from those wavering MPs. Let’s hope so.
The great tragedy of the hung parliament was the inability to send Rudd off into some new job, far away.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 1:20 pm
No misogyny spotted at Rabz’ comment at all, hey Gab?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 1:22 pm
As we know Labor “men” love nothing more than hiding behind womens skirts in moments of crisis. Gillard being a female offers her a mountain of protection of criticism real or perceived from Abbott and free kicks left right and centre for Labor and the luvvie media about “sexism” etc, etc.
If she was replaced by Rudd it’d be 2009 all over again with “Terminator” Abbott unshackled and once again free to reduce Rudd to a whimpering, nervous wreck.
Ergo this weeks hysteric’s and full frontal “Abbott is a mysogynist” smear campaign is a final attempt to lock in the “sexist thug” “idea” once and for all outside of the bounds of Gillard – before she’s replaced.
That way they can continue on with the “Abbott the sexist thug” meme even once Gillard is gone and Rudd is back in as leader.
As an added bonus they’re conjuring up a “Abbott is an aggressive bully” narrative. Witness Swans comments yesterday about “aggressive questions” and the subtext of much of the “commentary” this week about Abbott’s “aggression”.
So once Rudd is back in they’ll push the meme that Big Bad Bully Abbott is bullying the poor little nerdy Rudd using his theoretical teenage student political years as “proof” that he’s a bully and a thug.
And on it goes.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 1:24 pm
Hey, you sad, whiny ol’ beta male softcock – go throw yourself off a cliff!
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 1:25 pm
That Labor relies so heavily on demonisation and moral grandstanding says plenty about its litany of policy failures and intellectual poverty.
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 1:31 pm
Solid advice.
Dangph
13 Sep 12 at 1:31 pm
Another ‘witness’ comes forward to accuse Abbott of being ringleader of a “good squad” that attacked him.
Fairfax, of course: ‘Abbott’s goon squad threw me against a wall’.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 1:32 pm
The Labor shill accusing Abbott of … something … in 1977 is doing a masterful impression of a congenital leftist liar. Parse this:
You wouldn’t trust David Patch to walk your kids to school. Puppet master McTernan is ignoring the ceasefire caused by the death of Gillard’s father to heap as much shit on Abbott as he can while Abbott can’t fire back.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 1:33 pm
Actually this site represents the conservative point of view perfectly. It is funded from the proceeds of productive enterprise, it allows any and all to participate.
Compare to the Drum, which is government funded so everyone pays, and probably runs on gold plated hardware by chumps that would get 6 months redundancy packages if economic conditions ever forced them to become unemployed.
I bet this site runs for less money than the Drum stationery invoices.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 1:39 pm
Oh good. The witnesses keep coming.
I’m upgrading it from “storm in a tea cup” to “turbulence in the soup bowl”.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 1:41 pm
I wonder how a “witness” can sign a Stat Dec and also stay anonymous at the same time.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 1:42 pm
Abbott’s change from “I don’t remember” to “it never happened” is part of the problem here. It has encouraged more people to come out of the wood work.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 1:45 pm
How very convenient, again. Says nothing for 35 years solid but now magically appears ready willing and able to continue the Abbott smear.
The Labor tactic of keeping the Liberals on the defense is transparently lame.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 1:46 pm
Do you like Malcolm Turbull, candy? Or is he too old to register on your spunk-o-meter?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 1:47 pm
…that’s the nub of the issue, isn’t it?
What are they children that need protection?
Token
13 Sep 12 at 1:47 pm
At least Abbott hasn’t come out with the pathetic ‘young and naive’ defense.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 1:49 pm
Fixed.
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 1:50 pm
Cold-Hands 13 Sep 12 at 11:44 am
Obviously there blog engine rejects exotic characters like “™”!
Steve D
13 Sep 12 at 1:52 pm
Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 1:54 pm
I think a good defamation case might cause the rodents to scurry back up drainpipes, lest they get put on the stand under threat of perjury.
Time for Abbott to bring this to a head, otherwise they are going to be turning up in the hundreds, all eager for their 10 seconds in the Fairfax sun.
I think Abbott should try the ‘I was young and naive at university’ line just to see who picks up on it.
In two weeks all this will be long-forgotten, except when Labor are in trouble and need to paint Abbott as a woman-hating unelectable bully again.
Quite how they reconcile this with the former PM being a proven psycopathic control freak, I’m not sure.
But I’m happy for them to keep going. They’ll probably drop Abbotts approval rating by 2 or 3 points, but with zero change to the 2PP. That’s because people would rather vote for an Abbott-led government than reward the Labor party for dishonesty and corruption.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 1:54 pm
If anyone wants to start digging around in the past of young student bullies, I think there is a rich seam of material around a certain Mr Swan, going from what I have been told.
But I’m just waiting until someone clicks on that Ms Gillard used to run a communist front at university. I’ll take a goon squad over communist wymyn any day of the week.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 1:56 pm
“Do you like Malcolm Turbull, candy? Or is he too old to register on your spunk-o-meter?”
Steve, you are just naughty today aren’t you, and trying to bait people.
any anyway M. Turnbull does not even register on the spunk-o-meter, not even one heartbeat.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 2:01 pm
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 2:01 pm
This is the new politics. Its not about selling the benefits of your party and politics, its about tearing down the your opponents. This is an unfortunate inevitability of the allegations against Gillard. Politicians will now be scrutinised over allegations of events which happened 20 or even 40 years ago.
But people change – even if they are true, the Abbott of today is not the Abbott of 30 years ago. Just read some of the stuff he wrote when at university.
I don’t think we’ll see a defamation case. Unlike Gillard where he can target people who aren’t bankrupt, he doesn’t want to sue for similar reasons. Doing so would bring it even more to public attention and keep it there. And its very likely that it wouldn’t be settled before the next election so will distract from his campaign. Not to mention that bringing such a case could lead to even more publicity of the Abbott of 30 years ago who looks very out of date compared to the Abbott of today.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 2:04 pm
Rabz
13 Sep 12 at 2:07 pm
LOL
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 2:09 pm
It all shows how pathetic university student politics was / is(?) too.
University students should just spend spare time sitting in the sun, reading books, contemplating their lack of a sex life, and drinking very cheap alcohol on weekends.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 2:09 pm
a.Albanese and McTernan person must have been very busy locating and contacting people from Tony Abbott’s student days from 30 years ago. That’s no easy task. Some of them would be overseas or dead even and they’re busy ringing up the relatives to find them.
Our taxes are going towards that, I guess.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 2:10 pm
Abbott needs to take a page out of the socialists book and learn to deny things immediately, denounce the accuser then later spin them if necessary.
His sticking to some jesuit high minded idea that he can expect the truth to come out on its own and the rabbit in the headlights state of surprise he exhibits when his enemies stoop to these levels is what kills him in these situations. The “it would be very out of character” remark was obviously made light heartedly to someone who he thought would be decent enough to know that it was nothing but a smear.
His response should have been an immediate and vigourous denial, denouncement of the questioner as a muckraker and denouncement of the accuser as an ALP appointed luvvie who has been shopping different versions of this story around for decades.
He now needs to come out and demand to know why the “story” was actually “broken” on Twitter three weeks ago by a celebrity criminal lawyer who had “interviewed” Ramjan twice.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 2:11 pm
So he “saw Abbot throw a punch” at a woman…and he just kept on walking?
He didn’t even go over let alone do anything about it?
What a fucking joke.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 2:14 pm
Volunteer surf lifesaver
volunteer bushfire fighter
saved two kids from house fire but didn’t stick around to get thanked
spends holidays building libraries and volunteering to help outback Aborigines
keeps fit and healthy
-v-
lawyer who admitted to setting up a fake union slush fund for her boyfriend and who admits she not sure if she benefited from the proceeds.
had affairs with at least two married men who left their wives and kids.
is a known liar.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 2:16 pm
This country is a fucking joke. We have a larcenous whore as PM and instead the focus is on some made up crap that a bunch of militant homos dreamt up?
I hope North Korea bomb the fuck out of us. We deserve it.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 2:19 pm
Nicely spun Chris.
This campaign to equalise fraud in the Trade Union movement based upon document trails to unsubstantiated statements is really gathering currency in the mind of the Left.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 2:21 pm
Twostix, I can’t for one minute accept that any man would stand by idly while another man threw a punch at a woman, he thought had actually struck her?? He’s bullshitting or a weak cnut, or both.
Can someone please explain to me how Ramjan says there were no witnesses to the incident, then out of nowhere witnesses appear who actually saw a punch thrown?
FFS these bastards lie so much they forget where one lie finishes and the next one starts.
Oh what a twisted web we weave, hey? Whatever it takes, whatever it takes.
Old Fridgie
13 Sep 12 at 2:22 pm
Shut the fuck up you donut eating shiny bummed swine:
Cop demands 0.02 BAC level.
You don’t make the laws you fascist mental midget.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 2:23 pm
This is beyond parody. The Left in this country are criminally insane.
Feral Abacus
13 Sep 12 at 2:25 pm
This just doesn’t stack up.
If he saw a punch thrown, why didn’t he go and defend the woman?
He says that he thought a punch connected with the woman but didn’t see it. Again if he was so outraged at the behaviour why didn’t he involve himself in her defence?
Serious argy-bargy could have been serious arm waving or finger pointing depending on the angle and distance. If he was that far away not to be able to distinguish between a punch to the face with the subsequent body movements associated with pain and two allegedly targeted punches to a nearby wall, then I suggest this person is not a credible witness.
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 2:25 pm
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=4963
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 2:27 pm
Potemkin’s Village
The gods had condemned Sisyphus… here
Grigory Potemkin
13 Sep 12 at 2:28 pm
What moral decrepitude shown by the left, this time, by serial pest “chris”.
She is guilty of serious fraud and Abbot has to put up with accusations made up by anonymous witnesses who didn’t even see anything.
I bet the witness is a figment of Swan and Mc Ternan’s imagination.
.
13 Sep 12 at 2:29 pm
“Doing so would bring it even more to public attention and keep it there.”
Tony Abbott has no reason to fear public attention, Chris. It’s Ms Gillard, for Gab’s reasons outlined above, who greatly fears public attention, not the least of which is her affairs with married men.
That’s the one they’re trying desperately not to be made known.
YOu can tell by the way Steve and Steve and Monty here get uptight about it whenever its mentioned.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 2:29 pm
You forgot Rhodes scholar Gab
Dan
13 Sep 12 at 2:29 pm
The entitlement play moved on to larger stages.
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 2:30 pm
Abbott should wait a few more days, let them make some more contradictitory bullshit statements in public then start suing.
Let a solicitor ask todays “witness” on the stand about his story of seeing a 19 year old male “throwing punches” at a girl in public and how he just wandered off not even bothering to stop.
And if we’re talking about stat decs, let’s talk about the stat dec from a union leader that’s floating around that outlines massive corruption in the ALP and specifically states he was offered a bribe of a seat in parliament.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 2:32 pm
Given that the degree of impairment is the same at 0.05 BAC as 0.02 BAC, this, if passed, is just another revenue grab, criminalising the innocent yet again. Not even the Baillieu Government would be stupid enough to agree to this.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 2:37 pm
There is no way this would ever make it to court. These rats would scurry away the moment they got a taste of having to put up in court. There is no way they would ever let it get that far, not when real money is on the line.
Just go for Marr and watch the others melt into the shadows.
Someone should ask this latest eye-witness to the unwitnessed incident to draw a rough map of where he was standing and where Abbott and the supposed victim was. I bet he can’t even name which building it was supposed to have happened in.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 2:39 pm
The UK and USA both have 0.08 BAC levels, it would be interesting to see if the DUI caused accidents are any higher per passenger mile.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 2:40 pm
Jeez Cold… you frightened the shit out of me. BAC is the market symbol for Bank of America stock, which I i’ve owned off an on for a while.
I read your comment to suggest someone is demand the stock go to 2 cents there for a second!
Fme.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 2:40 pm
I would like to know more.
.
13 Sep 12 at 2:41 pm
That’s it.
The polls have always suggested otherwise. The more crazy they get, the better Abbott does.
The most disgusting thing about this is that the various old Labor tarts lining up to sledge Abbott for ‘sexism’ have all backed Craig Thompson.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 2:43 pm
Well well well.
Who’s that?
It’s today’s rostered Abbott ‘sexism’ accuser, Deborah O’Neill.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 2:46 pm
The article states that when Sweden dropped their limit from 0.05 to 0.02 that the rate of serious injuries and deaths dropped 10%.
0.02 would essentially mean no drinking at all if you’re going to drive. I doubt it would be politically possible at the moment.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 2:49 pm
Well, although they dreamt of it, I don’t suppose any of the Honi Soit lot had actually lived in a socialist country.
Similarly, their talking about sex a lot tells us….
Aqualung
13 Sep 12 at 2:49 pm
Lol.
stepford
Is a general reference to Labor slappers as old Labor tarts misogynist? Honest question.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 2:50 pm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26761740/Robert%20Kernohan%20Stat%20Dec.pdf
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 2:50 pm
Now we know where the public sector cuts are really needed.
.
13 Sep 12 at 2:53 pm
Okay… lets all now refer to the lying slapper as he. It’s not misogynist.
That’s right, yea Stepford?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 2:56 pm
This is just outrageous, and the media are talking about a punch that no one saw.
I thought it was hyperbole previously, but we almost do need a Royal Commission into the unions and ALP.
.
13 Sep 12 at 2:56 pm
Bob Kernohan’s stat dec has been available for around a year at Kangaroo Court. It is on the 2nd last page of the declaration.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 2:58 pm
Pickering’s take on David Marr features a photo of him and Michael Kirby, and says:
??????????
In what sense is he Kirby’s “partner”? Kirby’s been living with the same bloke since 1969, according to Wiki.
Is Pickering the most untrustworthy blogger in the land? Even worse than CL.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 2:59 pm
Yes I suppose you’re right. It require nerves of steel to endure the constant slander and abuse and not lash out, but of course that’s exactly what they’re trying to get him to do.
Perhaps that’s the plan: goading him into to launching a defamation action. Then when he’s up to his ears in it they’ll call an election.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 3:02 pm
Of course, in addition to the Fisk Doctrine.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 3:02 pm
It is interesting to see how much of the information on that stat dec has come to light in the last year.
You can go through it and compare with documents unearthed by Ian Cambridge and Bob Smith at Michael Smith’s page.
Very compelling, for anyone except those who choose to ignore the fact the money that was stolen from union members and from a fund set up by a state government for training workers.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 3:03 pm
Um yeah sure. Has C.L. offered anyone a seat in Parliament if they hear no evil, see no evil?
.
13 Sep 12 at 3:05 pm
Because he is an emasculated lefty male operating the photocopier – his balls had been lost long ago to the militant lesso wimmin who ran the Student Union and the commo rag. (Or was there two of them? Who gives a rats, I know who I’d rather have in my corner.)
He was probably imagining what he would have liked to have done/seen himself.
Helen Armstrong
13 Sep 12 at 3:06 pm
We all know Williamson is fucked, but this kind of thing is rampant
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/archive/national-old/hsu-national-secretary-kathy-jackson-says-she-was-offered-a-federal-parliament-seat-to-hush-her-up/story-e6freuzr-1226345375333
Ms Jackson told Sky News’ Paul Murray Live show last night that she had been approached by HSU boss Michael Williamson last year and offered a position in parliament in return for her silence over claims of corruption within the union.
“Asking me that, you know, he could organise it for me – and ‘don’t worry darl, I’ll make up the salary difference if you want to go’.
Apart from being a misogynist, isn’t Williamson also engaging in offering a secret commission in addition to the “sale” of a Parliamentary seat?
.
13 Sep 12 at 3:08 pm
Vic Roads once published a chart (which I get when I asked for material for a school assignment) that showed the accident risk went up exponentially based on BAC. 0.05% was rated 2 (double the chance of an accident) and I cannot remember the 0.08% figure, but it did kick up. A quick check failed to find the chart but Googling BAC impairment gives results that seem to agree.
Steve D
13 Sep 12 at 3:10 pm
“Perhaps that’s the plan: goading him into to launching a defamation action”
He should sue for the distress caused to his wife and kids by the lies of David Marr calling their husband and father a woman beater.
The general public would be quite sympathetic with the family angle.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 3:11 pm
Who are you actually talking to when you make these manic pseudo-swipes at me, Steve? Everyone here regards you as a lying imbecile, remember?
You’re the one who insisted Abbott was finished two years ago because of a ‘sex scandal’ that you made up.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 3:12 pm
0.02 would catch many people the morning after a heavy night on the tiles. The whole approach is bulls*t. Drink drivers causing fatalities and accidents are way over the current limits; dropping the legal limit will not do anything to save lives, just criminalise formerly law abiding citizens in a bid to raise revenue and appease the new wowsers.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 3:12 pm
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
The risk may double but it might also still be statistically insignificant.
.
13 Sep 12 at 3:16 pm
And that the Gillard story was a “non story” that would never ever be see the light of day.
And that punchgate is a major story…
And that Abbott was wrong on Nauru.
And that the polls would turn around last week, last month, last year.
And, and, and…
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 3:17 pm
Pickering corrected his post shortly after it appeared CORRECTION: David Marr is shown here with his friend Justice Kirby. David Marr’s current partner is Jay Riviere. Unlike like some, Pickering is prepared to correct errors in his posts. His correction was immediate and was prominent on his facebook page immediately after the post containing the error. Mentioning this though obviously doesn’t fit your agenda.
Cold-Hands
13 Sep 12 at 3:22 pm
And CL confirms his Pickering-lite status.
twostic follows.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 3:22 pm
Stepford
What’s your “position” on the Slapper assisting embezzlement and Craig Thompson siphoning off union loot?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 3:25 pm
Steprford
Why didn’t you mention the correction, highlighted prominently at the end of Pickering’s Marr/Kirby piece?
Thoughts?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 3:27 pm
Steve argued two years ago that Abbott could be finished owing to a sex scandal that Steve knew about.
Good call, Steve.
Bit like your effort last night re your hero Kevin Rudd’s treatment of women.
What Steve said Punch said:
What Punch said:
Good blogging, Steve. No wonder your site has now overtaken AnalWartsDicussionForum.com for hits.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 3:32 pm
Actual headline at The OZ:
Muslims fear backlash after terror raids
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 3:32 pm
The traditional…
Muslims fear backlash after terror raids.
See also:
Muslims Fear Repercussions Over Tomorrow’s Train Bombing.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 3:36 pm
It’s a damn shame. One of many elements of the American polity which we should reject here.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 3:36 pm
dot 13 Sep 12 at 3:16 pm
True, although I think also that alcohol seems to continue to have a high representation in the accident stats – way above the proportion of drunk drivers on the road at any one time.
Steve D
13 Sep 12 at 3:37 pm
Well, this is what Pickering was hoping to do with Gillard, so you’re probably right.
The thing we should take out of all of this is that Abbott has clearly moved on from student politics, while his opponents are clearly still there, and think that effective government is roughly the same as raiding the compulsory student union fees to put up wymmyns posters and go around trying to beat up people.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 3:38 pm
Because I didn’t see it, JC.
Why doesn’t he correct within the article itself, so that people see what stupid claims he has made?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 3:40 pm
Monst:
What’s your “position” on the Slapper assisting embezzlement and Craig Thompson siphoning off union loot?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 3:41 pm
Good. mOnty is here to continue the good fight.
We have to tell Sussex Street to get our schedules better organised, mont. I’ve been here by myself nearly all day.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 3:45 pm
You strike me as more of a GetUp fairy than a Sussex St bovver boy.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 3:48 pm
I’ve been crook as a dog for two days, Steve. Manflu is a terrible thing.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 3:50 pm
Strong competition for stupidest comment of the day. But I still rank it below the question posed at 7:02 am in relation to fish caught be a trawler:
Of course it’s completely unreasonable to add a correction to the end of an article. It’s only been done that way for, oh I don’t know, forever?
So asking what the fate of fish caught by a trawler is, and then asking why a correction is added to the end of an article. We’re dealing with a razor sharp mind, folks.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 3:52 pm
SNAP, IT.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 3:53 pm
CL, Punch noted “Backbencher Janelle Saffin” as a Rudd supporter, as well as his wife and daughter. That’s “some female supporters” no?
Of course, someone the thread noted Maxine’s support of him as well.
That’s more “some” from within the MP’s.
And if you look at this February article in the Australian, by their count, there were quite a few women supporting Kevin.
My point is certainly true that he has some support from women within the party.
NSW: John Faulkner, Justine Elliott, Robert McClelland, Chris Bowen, Ursula Stephens, Mike Kelly, Janelle Saffin, Daryl Melham, Doug Cameron, Ed Husic, Peter Garrett, Jill Hall, Stephen Jones, Sharon Grierson
NT: Trish Crossin
QUEENSLAND: Kevin Rudd, Claire Moore, Mark Furner
SA: Tony Zappia, Steve Georganas
TASMANIA: Carol Brown, Anne Urquhart, Nick Sherry
VICTORIA: Anthony Byrne, Laura Smyth, Maria Vamvakinou, Kim Carr, Martin Ferguson, Alan Griffin, Harry Jenkins, Anna Burke, Gavin Marshall, Darren Cheeseman
WA: Mark Bishop. Chris Evans, Melissa Parke
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 3:53 pm
You again demonstrate that you’re a worthless lying piece of shit. Pickering amended that post on Monday.
Do you own your house? I’d be very careful about what you put on your blog if you think you can lie about and misrepresent people in public life with impunity.
Just because the world’s human trash like you can now publish your thoughts on the internet for free doesn’t exempt you from libel laws.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 3:54 pm
Gillard has answered all questions from journos on the issue, and it is now dead, as evidenced by the complete failure by the usual suspects to exhume it in the weeks since.
As for Thompson, I remain unconvinced that Jackson is not the villain of the piece. She’s the one with the finger on the till, a massive wage and the bovver boy over her shoulder.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 3:57 pm
Lol
Step:
Up until now, Homer had the stupidest comment ever posted at Catallaxy title. It’s now neck and neck. Good work.
Which reminds me, anyone seen Skanky Homer these days. Where is the moron?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 3:57 pm
By the way, how smokin’ is it that Abbo had a goon squad?
Cool.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 3:58 pm
Liberty quote.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 4:02 pm
Under socialist dickhead, Barry O’Farrell, your swimming pool now needs a number plate:
New safety laws for NSW pool owners.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 4:06 pm
He was set up?
I suppose Willaimson (shithead) was set up too?
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:07 pm
Could be deemed to be the genesis of the Fisk Doctrine.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 4:08 pm
Ambassador Raped? Not sure if this has been verified?
Woolfe
13 Sep 12 at 4:09 pm
Seriously, what is the point of this? Why did we vote Liberal anyways?
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:09 pm
Monst:
I will ask again:-
What’s your “position” on the Slapper assisting embezzlement and Craig Thompson siphoning off union loot?
JC
13 Sep 12 at 4:10 pm
Barry O F’all
Ivan Denisovich
13 Sep 12 at 4:12 pm
CL and Dot, champions of the right for citizens to allow their toddlers to drown in poorly designed pools.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:15 pm
Boom
The science is settled on super trawlers
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/328157/scientist-blasts-trawler-decision-as-staggering-and-dangerous/?cs=98
Even a halfwit like Joe Ludwig could understand the abridged version of the story I have bolded out.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:16 pm
Why not ban pools, minty?
Then no one will drown in even “well designed pools”, even though I’ve rarely seen people install labrythine pools out of some James Bond movie designed to drown their own children or guests.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:19 pm
Coz the other lot had pedo’s and crooks operating from parliament.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 4:20 pm
So you are saying M0nty that people here want Toddlers to drown?
That is a foul brew you are taking for the cold M0nty. Its making you more odious than you normally are.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 4:23 pm
You certainly wouldn’t have a prob, Monst. That’s if the law of water displacement and density is correct. There wouldn’t be any water in the fucking pool.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 4:25 pm
You find it impossible to argue in good faith.
Anyone who did so would be guilty of murder or manslaughter.
You champion every cause that intrudes into our lives or taxes us more.
You are a sick individual, much like a liar who steals valour off war veterans, you will never have children.
Please stop using other people’s kids as a spiritual spittoon you can self abuse yourself with.
You remind me of a guilty woman I was a juror on the trial of, who tried to use her kid’s apsergers and club foot as an excuse for her guilt in very serious crimes.
You make me wanna puke.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:26 pm
Pools without toddler-proof fences should be banned for families with toddlers. It’s a basic safety issue, should be above politics.
You’re happy with six toddlers dying and 36 getting brain injuries every year in NSW, Dot? You don’t want to do anything about it?
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:27 pm
This may be noted somewhere upthread but I’ve been away and only just found out: Da Bunyip is Back!!
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 4:28 pm
Tom, Tom, Tom. You’re probably a very likeable fellow underneath that really stupid, aggressive and obnoxious exterior. Are you ever in Pinkenba. Come have a drink with CL and me?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 4:29 pm
How stupid are you?
Do you even know what the regs are in NSW?
If your kid drowns in a pool, the fence, which is not impossible to climb, is fairly high.
IT MEANS YOU AREN’T WATCHING YOUR FUCKING KIDS.
That’s a basic safety requirement up until the age of reason.
Prosecute parents and ignore childless freaks like you who purport to parenting experts.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:31 pm
Token, I get sick of libertarians railing against common sense safety precautions like pool fences or seat belts as if they are an affront to liberty. Bullshit. Not all regulation is bad. Some of it is very good, in fact. Which is why some regulation has major bipartisan support. Meanwhile, extremists like the LDP go crazy about getting a handful of local council seats, because that’s all they’re good for electorally.
Right Dot, so do you see any parents convicted of murder or manslaughter for allowing their kid to drown by accident? No, no you don’t.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:33 pm
CURRENT law
http://www.safewaters.nsw.gov.au/poolchecklist.htm
monty wants more law on top of this to placate parents with guilty feelings. Fuck ‘em. They ought to be tried for their negligence.
Note from the bottom of Governmental directives:
Pool owners are reminded that there is no substitute for constant adult supervision of children in and around swimming pools to prevent drownings and other accidents.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:36 pm
LOL, Dot’s solution to safety issues is to lock up grieving parents. You’re such a moron.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:36 pm
In Queensland you have to have a pool safety certificate when you sell. If your pool doesn’t comply, the new owner can still take the house, but has to have the compliance work done within 2 or 3 months.
The NSW system sounds like it will be similar, with the addition of a register (which I guess the Queensland system might have anyway built up over the years while sales happen.)
This is pretty unremarkable. It’s a way of ensuring existing safety laws are complied with.
The horse has already bolted. I don’t see what libertarians have to complain about. The right to not have to open a self closing gate to get to their pools? Oh diddums.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 4:40 pm
Barry understands. Governments must do something.
H B Bear
13 Sep 12 at 4:42 pm
I did wonder, in one of the pics CL linked to it appeared as though his trousers were very low or not there. Someones head is in the way, but you can clearly see a lot mof buttock.
Helen Armstrong
13 Sep 12 at 4:42 pm
They are not commonsense. They encourage moral hazard….and what if a an entrepreneur comes up with something better than seatbelts? Then they are just a cost.
Most if not all regulation is bad. More pool regulation – fuck me, please what else can we do? The pool fence laws are restrictive enough as it is.
Ah no it is because politicians are softcocks.
Wrong. Gillard is going to gaol. This is the only reason why you are concerned about children you will never have in a State you don’t live in where you have misrepresented the law as it is.
They should be. Your children are not the responsibility of the state. Anyone who disagrees can line up for neutering.
Note from the bottom of Governmental directives:
Pool owners are reminded that there is no substitute for constant adult supervision of children in and around swimming pools to prevent drownings and other accidents.
minty disagrees with this commonsense because he is a pathetic human being who gets his own self worth from the intrusiveness of Government. its like he thinks Year 10 civics classes are the greatest thing in human experience.
Love? Freedom? No. Government.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:42 pm
Remember when all our parents died because there was no nanny state? It was fookin’ dreadful.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 4:45 pm
Yep. Because they are REQUIRED TO HAVE A CHILD PROOF FENCE ANYWAY.
Please, explain how it is moronic to force parents to follow common law responsibilities they already have?
They’re greiving. Of course they’re greiving – it is their fault.
“No, you can’t prosecute me for what I did to a family member, I’m grieving – but hey go ahead force the rest of responsible society to be burdened by me”
Parents have a duty of care with their children regardless of whatever safety mandates are cooked up by Government.
If your children die even with such safety features implemented – you are really, really irresponsible and should be criminally liable.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:46 pm
This would be hilarious if the subject matter wasn’t so sad.
One person in a million dies every year in NSW and rather than prosecute the person responsible, because it might hurt their feelings, we need to implement yet more restrictions on the rest of society to salve the conscience of those responsible, thus ensuring other negligent parties in the future can make the same hand waving as others did before and never take responsibility for their omissions.
The fact of the matter is if your kids scale a child proof fence which is currently required by legislation anyway, and they drown, it’s your fault.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:50 pm
If someone came up with something better than a seatbelt then I’m sure it would get traction. You’re just being obtuse. As Steve said, diddums.
Ah no it is because politicians from major parties are in the business of being elected, and realise that supporting regulation to prevent deaths is a no-brainer. Unlike you LDP types, who have the luxury of a lack of responsibility so you can spout any old crap.
Case in point.
Yet again, Dot tries to verbal in lieu of a cogent argument. No, I don’t disagree with that sentiment. But even with supervision, adults don’t have eyes in the back of their heads. Pool fences are a prudent safety measure. It’s not even a political issue. It’s civilisation.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:51 pm
Are you happy with Gillard getting away with fraud and tax evasion, and her boyfriend getting away with corruption and offering secret commissions?
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:52 pm
I actually believe that pool fences save the lives of children. It is those offensive open ended emotive statements which I objected to.
What is crazy with those laws are that a friend of mine wanted to install a hot tub on her back patio and found the council insisting that according to the existing moronic laws in NSW she would have to install a fence around the tub.
The hottub comes with a cover and lock which when applied is superior to any fence.
The f*ckwits refused to acknowledge that the cover and lock was acceptable and wanted her to install a fence. She eventually got an exemption due to some loophole as the f*ckwit bureaucrats would not give ground.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 4:52 pm
So for the last 50 years, pre “pool registration” people haven’t “cared” about toddlers drowning in pools?
And in Victoria, where pools don’t need to be registered you all don’t “care” about toddlers drowning? Victoria: The toddler drowning lovers state.
And the 16 year NSW Labor government who didn’t see the need to implement “pool registration” to stop toddlers from drowning (wtf) – are they among the “Champions” of the right for toddlers to drown?
What a wanker you are m0nty. Just a totalitarian shill.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 4:52 pm
Those laws – the existing laws in NSW.
Token
13 Sep 12 at 4:53 pm
This why you’re a fat shit mOnty. You expect the government to do everything for you.
Have some god damn self respect.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 4:53 pm
And now for something completely different.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 4:55 pm
Moral hazard is obtuse…um okay.
Then they should prosecute parents for negligence.
NSW is “uncivilised” because we have pool safety laws but they aren’t regulated tightly in terms of conveyancing?
Fuck me. What a lunatic. Outlawing parental responsibility over children is “civilised”. I guess you think Aboriginal outstations are the bastion of the West?
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:55 pm
We live across the road from the water.
M0nty: “Ban the water! Ban people with toddlers living near the beach!”
It’s common sense.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 4:57 pm
She is uncivilised, a lunatic, has the luxury of no responsibility and can spout whatever nonsense she likes, champions the drowning of toddlers etc, according to mental midget minty.
.
13 Sep 12 at 4:57 pm
monty,
How do you feel about constructing a 10 ft wall around Freshwater Beach? it’s for my own good remember.
Maybe we can ban watersports if you are ESL as well.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rock-fishermen-drown-in-harbour-20110501-1e38a.html
Research in 2003 commissioned by the NSW government Water Safety Taskforce, found Asian fishermen – predominantly Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese – represented 49 per cent of rock fishing fatalities. The two men who died yesterday were Chinese.
It’s for their own good.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:01 pm
This may be mentioned upthread but I’ve been away and just found out: Da Bunyip is Back!!
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 5:01 pm
M0nty you dishonest cock, pool fences are already mandatory. Can you read? This law isn’t about pool fences, it’s about being forced to register your pool with the government and enduring “inspections” at a cost to the owner – owning a pool will become as onerous as storing a gun.
Would you like come back to relevance rather than setting up strawmen about pool fences?
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 5:01 pm
Monty has again confirmed my thesis that leftism is now an actual mental illness.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 5:03 pm
Monty and the lefts view of civilization:
Forcing other people to do things.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 5:04 pm
Fuck me
Apparently pool fencing to save one life in a million and reduce the blowback of prosectuing the parents who are responsible, is now (and has been for three years) a Federal issue!
http://www.openaustralia.org/senate/?id=2009-08-19.24.1
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:06 pm
Dot don’t speak too loudly, they’re trying to force people to wear life jackets when rock fishing over here.
Of course m0nty supports such a measure – that’s “civilisation”: Forcing adult men to wear floaties under threat of time in a cage.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 5:08 pm
SFB, you left M0nty unattended and he’s drowning in a puddle of his own making.
Get back here and give im mouth to mouth.
You know you want to.
jumpnmcar
13 Sep 12 at 5:09 pm
It’s not for poorly designed pools it for pools that were designed before pool fencing laws. $370,000 pools at $150 per inspection equals $55 million.
AGE – 32.9% of all toddler drowning victims are 2 year olds. 26.8% of all toddler drowning victims are 1 year olds.
GENDER – 65.9% of toddler drowning victims are male. 24.1% of toddler drowning victims are female.
PROPERTY – 60% of all toddler drowning occur in child’s own home. 70% of all toddler drowning occur in Metropolitan areas. 30% occur in Rural areas.
LOCATION – 41.5% of toddler drowning occurred in swimming pools. 19.5% of toddler drowning occurred in baths. 15.9% of toddler drowning occurred in dams.14.6% of toddler drowning occurred in lakes or rivers.
TIMING – 39% of toddler drowning occurs between 9am and 3pm. 37.8% of toddler drowning occurs between 3pm and 6pm. 19.5% of toddler drowning occur between 6pm and 9pm.
So for a $55 million cost of putting a compliance plate on a pool fence 41% of pool drowning toddlers may have a better chance of survival? I think they would have a better chance if the parents just kept a closer eye on them.
315 drownings (nationally) in 2011 and the break up of some of the groups:
Children Deaths
under 5: 16*
Men aged
18-34: 62
People aged
over 55 years: 117
So what we now have is a $55 million compliance cost to maybe (there is no stats I can find to say those 16 toddler deaths were because the pool owner did not have a complant pool fence) prevent seven deaths due to lack of supervision on the parents part.
Note* 16 under 5 year old deaths is nationally so NSW’s contribution will be even lower.
If the NSW government were honest about this they should say they are doing it to prevent the vast majority of pissed octogenarians and foolish Dawin award receipients from danger.
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 5:10 pm
The pool fence law has been in force for 20 years. Do you agree with the law or not, 26? Either a law is worth enforcing or it isn’t.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 5:11 pm
Has anyone got proof of just who made this film? Looks pretty dodgy. S’imbecile indeed. Probably funded by the saudis.
blogstrop
13 Sep 12 at 5:13 pm
Mental pygmy Monty would have us build and design a pool 25millimetres deep so as no-one could drown…
FFS how does registering an already existing pool change its design?
Old Fridgie
13 Sep 12 at 5:15 pm
Life will be much simpler once we have banned leftism.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 5:16 pm
It’s the price of civilisation, 26. Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 5:17 pm
No it’s not. Otherwise we’d have armed guards stopping people swimming at beaches.
WA has had five fatal shark attacks in one year up to July this year.
Should we go out and hunt great whites, tigers, makos, white hammerheads and bullsharks to extinction?
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:21 pm
Motor vehicles have been registered for years and years, and you even have to have a licence to operate one. So no toddlers have died in car accidents. Nope, never happens. Couldn’t really because after payment of bribe the gubmint says its safe, hey?
Keith
13 Sep 12 at 5:22 pm
Like I said, this hyperbole would be hilarious if the subject matter wasn’t so sombre.
Um no. Only whacko extremists refuse to prosecute irresponsible parents because they are softcocks more concerned about staying in power than doing the right thing.
Children still die with these laws. Why not ban pools? It’s “civilised”.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:23 pm
The shark issue involves grown adults. The pool fence issue involves toddlers. Try again, Dot.
And don’t bring up seat belts, you’ll only beclown yourself further.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 5:26 pm
This is the rhetorical corner you regularly paint yourself into, Dot. Everyone except you is an extremist, according to you. You’re a joke.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 5:29 pm
I remember some story about some poor old bloke who was being prosecuted because his neighbours’ kids drowned in his pool which hadn’t been properly fenced.
Sorry but that shits me. What the heck were the bloody parents doing letting their children trespass into the neighbours’ property in the first place?
jtfsoon
13 Sep 12 at 5:30 pm
I think there should be a ‘caveat emptor’ for any human soul that trespassses on someone else’s property
jtfsoon
13 Sep 12 at 5:32 pm
“Only wacko extremists would reject compliance with a safety law designed to save toddlers from drowning in their own backyard.”
Yes mUttly, their own backyard. Do you see the conundrum? Your next dragon to slay could be finding a compliance threshold to describe fit and proper parents.
DavidJ
13 Sep 12 at 5:34 pm
Clearly if you slipped into a custom lycra bodysuit you would make a great community Superhero.
DavidJ
13 Sep 12 at 5:35 pm
So we can disregard the lives of adults because of personal choice?
Fine.
Then you must consider the role of parents. They are what matters. Not pool fences.
There is no beclowning, monty.
Seatbelts would be inferior to stronger negligent driving laws and holding the owners of roads responsible both criminally and civilly for poor design and maintenance.
Modern seatbelts do save lives, even if the old designs were sometimes dangerous. Moral hazard means that non compulsory seat belts are less dangerous, if you discount the lives of adults because of personal choice – which you have done previously.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:35 pm
Monty would only allow this provided the pool was never filled.
Keith
13 Sep 12 at 5:36 pm
OMG SFB has been here all day defending Gillard and attacking Abbott like the good little Labor lapdog he is and then monty joins in to help his little buddy.
Gillard called and said that both of you should just stop writing crap.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 5:38 pm
It would be very unusual circumstances where they prosecute the parents (because in most cases the parents have already suffered a huge amount and prosecution/punishment is not going to act as an extra disincentive). There was one recent case where they prosecuted a man for manslaughter for a pool that wasn’t fenced properly after a neighbours toddler drowned though. I don’t think its worked its way through the courts to a verdict yet though.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 5:38 pm
That’s funny monty, even lurker SOON disagrees with you.
You’re an extremist monty. You have said that Government’s only role and civilisation is defined by being able to to protect toddlers in spite of the negligence of their parents.
I totally agree Jason.
The idea that you ought to be responsible for trespassers is just bullshit. The parents involved should be charged, perhaps with a lesser crime than manslaughter.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:38 pm
The disincentive is for society in general.
What you are saying chris is that it is illogical to punish people who hurt, injure, maim, kill or murder their family members because they suffer guilt because they hurt a loved one.
Society is better off that the common law is harsh and doesn’t make such distinctions.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:41 pm
Yes, I’m going to have to talk to Sussex Street, Gab. This roster they have for me, mOnt and SteveC looks a bit too transparent sometimes.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 5:43 pm
What strange thoughts must run through some bodybuilders’ minds about what looks impressive.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 5:48 pm
Rubbish. Regulation via post facto litigation is shockingly inefficient, you only have to look at the health industry. Prevention is far better than cure when it comes to car accidents and pool accidents. Seatbelts should not be a political issue, and the fact that you lot attack them time and again only shows how ideologically rooted you are.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 5:48 pm
All government has to do is make water so damned expensive that people will be erecting strong security fencing around pools to prevent theft. Federal and State lefties have already made a good start on this goal.
Keith
13 Sep 12 at 5:50 pm
If a parent intentionally drowned their child in a pool then they would be prosecuted. Or even if they intentionally left a child in a dangerous situation where it was likely that they could drown. There’s a big difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm. Of course everyone here are perfect parents and never make mistakes!
And prosecuting in those accidental cases is often not a disincentive for society in general. Because most parents out there don’t want their children to drown accidentally and the thought of them drowning due to their inattention is already much greater disincentive than the though of possible criminal prosecution.
The pool fencing laws are not only meant to cover situations of children at their own home, but also where they are visiting other people’s homes. Eg situations where you have a bunch of families with lots young children running around where its easy to lose of track or think that someone else is supervising.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 5:52 pm
M0nty,
Even if you can make out a case for some pool fence laws, you can’t justify the creative idiocy of the current laws.
On what possible sane basis can an owner be required to fence a pool that is next to a dam? Toddlers could drone in the pool but can’t drown in the dam? What crap. Yet that is the law.
In this case the law is an ass. The $55M is because the grubbermint will not do a cost benefit analysis when “lives are at stake”, they’ll just spend other peoples’ money to no real benefit, so they can be seen to be doing something.
Cato the Elder
13 Sep 12 at 5:53 pm
PIMF
“drown”, not “drone”
I hate spellcheckers
Cato the Elder
13 Sep 12 at 5:54 pm
He’d certainly make a splash in a neighbor’s pool, DavidJ.
Monst, I must say I like the cut of DavidJ’s suit. We think alike, me an’ him.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 5:55 pm
Previously you inferred that you thought that adults safety can be disregarded. Were you lying before?
Which includes tough penalties for negligence. Pool fences already exist, NSW is just going to cop extra regulation for no demonstratable benefit. No one has ever actually proven that pool fencing saves lives. There is always the moral hazard, encouraged by politicians who are too soft to prosecute negligent parents.
“Regulation should be above politics. Do what you are told.”
What I said about seatbelts is entirely true.
Again you are caught out lying again. If adults ought to be protected from their own actions, then we should ban alcohol, swimming at beaches, kill dangerous marine life or ban sailing, etc.
.
13 Sep 12 at 5:57 pm
Fat lefties have no fucking idea how the world goes around.
Monster, you fat dolt, statute acts as a signaling method. Why do you morons think there would be no signalling with common law? people wouldn’t get the message? Shut up.
“You lot” are truly fucking stupid.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 5:59 pm
My wife and I were recently staying in the Four Seasons in Jimbaran Bay in Bali. One of the pools at the resort is within a small villa which is being used as a club, whilst a new restaurant is built. The club was wonderful. Intthe middle of the courtyard was a lovely pool surrorunded by sunlounges and a with steps on one side straight into a lovely cpacious cabana.
My wife kept wondering why the whole scene was so wonderful yet so strange. Then it hit us, no resort in Australia could have such a pool, there were no ugly signs explaining what to do in an emergency and no child saftey fences to destroy the ambience. There ewas a discrete rubber life preserver hanging picturesquely on a tree.
Now that is civilisation!
Rococo Liberal
13 Sep 12 at 5:59 pm
The case of the man charged with manslaughter is explained in a bit of detail here. The fence was apparently dilapidated (another report I found said for 12 months).
As for the culpability of the parent:
Toddlers can get away quickly, and it appears the mother realised he was gone soon.
A sad case. It will be interesting to see if a jury convicts. I think the evidence of neighbours as to the nature of complaints they might have made to the guy directly may be quite influential.
It is a situation deal with much better by better regulation of the type being introduced.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 6:02 pm
It is a good law. Simple enforcement of it is, therefore, good.
The law should not be relaxed due to the presence of nearby water sources. That is silly.
Cato, if any elected politician released a cost benefit analysis where one of the variables was innocent citizens’ lives, they would get bounced out of office. And rightly so.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:04 pm
No, there isn’t.
If you want to regulate me then I want you to be a saint.
PS
Try telling that sob story about “no one being perfect” for traffic offences.
If a group of adults cannot keep an eye on children – then yes, none of you deserve to have children.
Harsh but fair. You cannot seriously point out the grievousness of the topic and then ignore all parental responsibility.
“We’re pissed. We want the Government to supervise our kids”
Disgusting.
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:05 pm
None of you are being fair on m0nty.
His only chance to score his first root is with a lefty who is inspired by his caring side.
From that perspective and that stance alone could his ‘arguments’ be seen as rationally based.
Give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him success.
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 6:10 pm
The ocean can’t be regulated for swimmers. You dive in there as an adult, you sign off on any thought of compensation for being mauled by wild animals. There are no wild animals in cars or backyards. There is no valid analogy there.
Wrong again, Dot.
BTW, Victoria is also doing a similar “safety blitz” on pool fences.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:10 pm
Oh bullshit. He wandered off 50 m or so in a couple of seconds? A kid can run faster than a car?
What a terrible mother.
Note the poll Steve. Society agrees with me.
munty sez: we must be irrational to succour whingers and the guilty even if the majority disagrees.
A couple of days ago, munty was advocating mob rule!
There is more to this story. So this guy didn’t have a side fence or gate?
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:10 pm
Really? Shut up Monster.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 6:16 pm
Poll: Who should be responsible for small children around pools?
Poll closed 6 Jul, 2012
Propety owner 3%
Parents of the child 53%
Both 40%
Note the poll is not asking the question directly of who is responsible in this instance where a child has actually trespassed.
All that graph proves monty is that near drowning medicine has gotten better such as treatment and prevention and management of secondary drowning.
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:18 pm
How many deaths by bear have been recorded in Australia, JC?
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:18 pm
Hahahahahahahaha!
You actually believe that garbage too, I bet.
You’re such a clown, Dot.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:19 pm
Note that monty has said that
Yet the study he linked to uses VSLYs (value of statistical life years).
Idiot.
Car crash data is just like pool data.
Trauma treatment and post emergency treatment care and complication management and prevention has gotten better.
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:23 pm
I notice brc, JC and CL are showing their inability to comprehend a fairly simple sentence. SFB queried what the “fate of the fish” would be. “Stupid question, they get eaten” they replied. (stupidest question award proposed even).
A reasonable interpretation of what steve meant, would be where will the fish end up? The answer according to Seafish Tasmania is Africa:
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 6:28 pm
Excellent spot. Australia is a shithole and no one of sound mind should ever holiday here.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 6:28 pm
so minty, you think that overall drowning incidents have declined (they haven’t) and reject that emergency medical care for drownings hasn’t improved?
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:28 pm
http://www.examiner.com.au/story/328157/scientist-blasts-trawler-decision-as-staggering-and-dangerous/?cs=98
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:32 pm
And concludes that “resources allocated to a mandatory swimming pool inspection program would prove to be very beneficial”. Let me amend my earlier statement:
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:32 pm
So, there should be no shortage of actual witnesses to Wayne Swan’s effort in Question Time today. Everyone who was watching the live broadcast on ABC saw him reading numbers back in response to Joe Hockey’s question and then denying it. Misleading the Parliament is a hanging offence is it not?
Septimus
13 Sep 12 at 6:32 pm
Plenty by snakes monty.
Keith
13 Sep 12 at 6:33 pm
We’re talking about toddlers, for whom incidents have declined markedly with direct effects seen in the graph from legislation. You can’t deny the numbers.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:37 pm
The Goose will riggle out of it, he will use Shagger’s defence: ” It wasn’t my writing on the document and I was interstate at the time of the transaction. If that goes bad he can always fall back on : I was young and naive”.
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 6:38 pm
There are more toddler deaths by drowning in NSW per year than there are snake bite deaths in the whole of Australia.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:42 pm
No monty you have been caught out lying several times.
You love mob rule in democracy but think politicians who prosecuted parents for negligence would be bounced out of office, despite the idea being popular.
You think using lives in a CBA is wrong, yet quote a study which uses them.
You actually deny that pre hospital and trauma care (and post operative/emergency care and management) for crashes and drowning incidents has improved over the last 20 years.
You deny there is any moral hazard with safety regulations.
You think in some cases adults should be protected from themselves (single occupants of cars not wearing seatbelts) but not from themselves at other times (i.e swimming in the ocean).
You believe it is wrong to prosecute negligent parents on emotional grounds but then use emotive statements to argue against rational analysis of cost and benefits of regulation.
You have criticised regulation after the fact but supported it because you are too pissweak to support the prosecution of negligent parents.
You have denied there is an effect of any kind in punishing negligent parties.
You have called regulation “above politics” but resorted to tribalism and grandstanding whilst making the statement.
You are simply a liar with their own wretched view of utopia and you are obsessed with inflicting it upon everyone else.
The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.
You object to this and are willing to lie relentlessly because you then lose out by not being on the side of a Government telling millions of people what to do, that is to be responsible for children whom are not theirs.
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:44 pm
mOnty:
Dot:
Did you actually mean to type that, dot?
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 6:48 pm
More kids die from being run over in the driveway and being left in a overheated locked cars. Should we mandate laws to prevent stupid people from having children in the first place?
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 6:49 pm
So what will the enforced registration of the pools achieve? That has not been resolved.
Is a monster database administered by the existing cadre of public servants the most effective way to reduce the # of deaths?
My story about the hot-tub in a backyard with no public access with a padlock should tell you how likely that will be.
If the issue is the old fellow would not deal with the problem, isn’t there some laws like those used to help neighbour deal with encroaching trees, that can be used to allow the community to resolve these issues themselves?
Token
13 Sep 12 at 6:50 pm
Oh yea, SteveC… good point. Who in their right mind would want Africans or Asians eating “Australian” fish.
We’re with you, SteveC… let’em starve.
Not!
Look you despicable moron, I don’t give a rats arse whose plate those fish end up, you appalling nutcase.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 6:53 pm
Every one of your points is a deliberate misrepresentation of my position, Dot. You are a constant liar in this regard.
Complete and utter bullshit. Look at the numbers. Pool deaths by toddlers pre-1992 in NSW: four out of five years deaths were above 20. Post-1992: never above 20, and now well into single figures.
Do you seriously think parents aren’t punished enough by their child dying? What deterrent could possibly be worse than that?
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 6:53 pm
No, there isn’t. The maximum penalty for manslaughter and murder is the same.
Same with most negligence related crimes.
The courts however are tolerant and can have much more leeway in reducing your sentence.
There is a difference. If it is big or not is up to the court to decide.
Clearly we need to mandate all cars have rear view cameras!
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:54 pm
Another good thread shot to shit by the dynamic duo.
And to all you stupid bastards who kept egging them on, will you ever learn?
Winston Smith
13 Sep 12 at 6:55 pm
I dunno? Gaol?
No they are not and you are constant slanderer in this regard.
Indeed. Look at total incidents and the evolution of medical care, you twit.
.
13 Sep 12 at 6:56 pm
Sorry to tell you this Septimus, but the Stenographers will cover it all up and ensure that Goose can continue to act like a half-wit again tomorrow and for the next year.
Tuesday he was being a boofhead making statements that Abbott is a thug. Yesterday this was his approach.
How much outrage did you hear across the media of Labor exploiting the funeral of serviceman in between those baseless claims peddled by the Stenographers about Abbott exploiting Gillard’s father’s death?
Token
13 Sep 12 at 6:59 pm
Jail is worse than your kid dying? How dumb are you, Dot?
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 7:08 pm
Jacques, if you lot are having trouble with funding, why not put up a link so we can donate and keep you out of the clutches of those eviiil advertisers?
Winston Smith
13 Sep 12 at 7:12 pm
He’s not saying it’s “worse” monster, you dishonest idiot. He’s saying that even if you lose a kid due to negligence, you should still be up for jail time.
look you knucklehead, if you’re worried about your kid getting into a neighbor’s pool then build a secure perimeter yourself numbnut. Stop whacking others for costs.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 7:13 pm
He’s saying that pool fence laws should be cleaned off the books in favour of the deterrent of criminal convictions against grieving parents. In short, he’s a bloviating moron.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 7:15 pm
So you Victorians are whacko uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown then?
Because you don’t have this law.
And yesterday in NSW, before anybody had heard of this law we were “uncivilized” extremists?
What a fascist joker you are m0nty.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 7:20 pm
No he’s not moron. He’s saying that parents ought to take their own precautions. Build your own secure fence. Make sure your kid is always safe. Don’t expect someone else to be taking care of him or her. And if you fuck up that responsibility, then it’s your neck that gets the noose, not some stranger. Stop asking other people to take responsibility for your own fuck ups Monst, you loathsome cretin.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 7:21 pm
Dot, do you have any evidence whatsoever of that extraordinary claim?
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 7:22 pm
SteveC giving Kimberly some respite.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 7:24 pm
Monty may not have children, it’s different perspective when you have kids, more aware of your own responsiblities. Relying on strangers can be quite hazardous.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 7:24 pm
Well said. Why should the cost of compliance be borne by everyone except for inattentive parents. Should all dogs be caged like birds just in case a toddler wanders into a neigbours fenced yard and is mauled while his mother updates her facebook page?
Splatacrobat
13 Sep 12 at 7:24 pm
Misleading the Parliament
Apparently, Joe Hockey raised the matter after Question Time and Anna Burke has referred it to the Speaker.
Septimus
13 Sep 12 at 7:24 pm
“The fact of the matter is more lives would be saved, of innocent children with no true sense of volition or consent, if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties, and there was no pool fencing at all.”
Why is it better to punish transgressors, rather than prevent the transgression in the first place?
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 7:28 pm
In case you missed the link earlier, we Victorians are also enjoying a “safety blitz” on backyard pools, 26. Both instituted by Liberal premiers.
I’d be walking away from Dot on this one if I were you, JC. He goes way too far, way too often.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 7:28 pm
This is not an argument against pool fence laws m0nty you fuckwit.
This is an argument against being forced to “register” your pool and be subjected to “inspections” more arduous than owning a rifle.
More children die in baths than pools, so do tell, what intrusions will you, the lonely barren middle aged IT loser foist upon us young parents to “protect” our children in the bath from our supposed failings?
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 7:33 pm
In case you can’t read m0nty, YOU DON”T HAVE THIS LAW, asking owners to do “self audits” is a hell of a long way from mandatory registeration, spot inspections and multi thousand dollar fines.
So I ask again, are you Victorians uncivilised extremists who like seeing toddlers drown?
And of course the bigger question, clearly the previous Labor governments who ignored the multitudes of drowning toddlers for decades were negligent and uncivilized as well.
Right m0nty?
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 7:38 pm
M0nty, you are either a fool, or a tool.
Every cost benefit choice means lives. There is no free lunch.
There is an opportunity cost to this pool fencing. More for this means homeowners spend less on something else.
More money for emergency care, so less for cancer scanning. Either way, people die.
Spend millions fencing the Gateway Bridge because a few idiots jump off it? Others die because the roads aren’t maintained.
Politicians don’t like to admit it; but most of their choices cost lives, one way or the other.
Cato the Elder
13 Sep 12 at 7:39 pm
A total of 67 Fairfax journalists at the Age, including some big names such as associate editor Shaun Carney and a number of other editors, are being farewelled at a tearful function in Melbourne this evening, I’m told. FXJ employees are desperate to believe it’s the internet’s fault, but FXJ circulations (Age, SMH) are collapsing at 15-20% p.a. while the competition News Ltd experience more accurately reflects world trends of 3-5% p.a. Make no mistake: FXJ is collapsing because it has torched its main consumer trading commodity, credibility. The same is occurring overseas at newspapers like the Guardian and the NY Times (although at a less drastic rate compared with Fairfax), whose writing can no longer be trusted because of political bias. Their readers are being treated like idiots; in fact, readers are now highly educated and can use the web to fact-check everything they’re being told. The only journalism that will survive is the old-fashioned ethical bias-free 100%-original type which the third-rate hacks at Fairfax thought they could get away with ditching. Listen up, touchy-feely clowns, with your untouchable Charter of Editorial Independence: you killed your own jobs; you killed a great company.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 7:40 pm
That may be true, but politicians can’t be seen to be choosing money over lives.
Do you not think that if O’Farrell has success lowering incident rate in NSW that Baillieu wouldn’t follow suit, tout de suite? Victorians wouldn’t ark up about the same law being enacted here. This is a bipartisan issue, 26.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 7:49 pm
Good work mOron. So it”s ok to charge someone with manslaughter when they don’t look after their fence.
Then when an irresponsible parent loses a child because of their own negligence we should start supporting foundations they set up, tell them shit to make them feel better, hold their hands, blame the pool owner, let the crap parent feel like a victim and start giving pool owners a hard time. FMD you’re particularly stupid. As usual. SNAFU.
Tiny Dancer
13 Sep 12 at 7:50 pm
In any case this new pool registration regime has less to do with safety and than it has to do with councils and rates.
Notice who announced the law: the Minister for Local Government. Councils around here have been whinging loudly for years about people putting in pools without paying council for the privilege. Taking to using satellite imaging to check for “unapproved” pools in peoples backyards. This is the solution to that wrapped up as “safety” for dimwits like m0nty.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 7:50 pm
HAhahaha so you’re admitting that you people in Victoria really are”uncivilised” “extremists” who don’t care about toddlers drowning.
Very interesting.
Now tell us about the previous “extremist” “uncivilized” ALP governments who despite having over a decade to do so didn’t pass these laws to save the lives of innocents.
You support them, how is this so?
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 7:54 pm
No 26, that sort of verballing won’t work on me.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 8:01 pm
Why do people on this blog persist in making stupid fact free claims?
Wrong – ABS:
In children 0-4 years, Accidents caused by submersion, suffocation and foreign bodies 45.7% of all accidental deaths. ALL motor vehicle accidents – 34%
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 8:04 pm
It’s not “verballing” m0nty, it’s your stupid bullshit “logic” laid bare.
You claim that this law is a requirement of civilisation to “save innocents” and only “extremists” who want to see toddlers drown are against it.
You. Who live in a state that doesn’t have this law.
Now answer the question, the previous ALP government had over a decade to implement these laws which you claim are absolutely necessary to save innocent toddler’s lives but didn’t.
Yet you still support them.
Uncivilised? Negligent? Extremist? Which?
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 8:07 pm
If zero child drownings is your goal, and legislation is the means by which you intend to achieve this goal, wouldn’t it be even better to mandate that all children from 3 months to 16 years be forced to wear life jackets 24/7/365, with a hefty penalty to the parents if any child is found non-complying?
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 8:07 pm
Forty Tamil asylum seekers are on the way this evening from Christmas Island to Nauru this evening, via Darwin, along with one AFP officer for every refo, according to Steve Price.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 8:11 pm
LOL, Dawg
Cato the Elder
13 Sep 12 at 8:12 pm
So to determine if there is a difference between an accident due to a moment of inattention compared to intentionally causing harm, we should look at the The maximum penalty for manslaughter compared to murder.
That would have to rate as one of most stupid arguments I’ve seen put up.
So let’s see, 1) I’ll deleiberately drown my kid by holding his head under the water, or 2) I’ll not check the pool gate closed properly behind me and he drowns while I’m not looking.
I’m sure there will be no difference in penalty.
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 8:12 pm
Jail is worse than your kid dying? How dumb are you, Dot?
He’s very stupid Monty, how many hints do you need?
It’s why the LDP is the perfect party for him.
sdfc
13 Sep 12 at 8:13 pm
More great news:
I assume that’s day one. I will come up with new suggestions for day 2 of her reign of terror.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 8:14 pm
sdog, you’re an idiot who thinks you increase safety and decrease crime by arming everyone. You have no credibility except to dimwit libertarians who should be kept out of government because they are absolutely useless on issues of what should be legislated for the common good.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:14 pm
We must ban pools or better yet; water
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 8:15 pm
Shouldn’t we be requiring secure driveway fencing, and $150/year annual inspection of all driveway fences?
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 8:18 pm
I just gave my sprog a bath. Even left him unattended for 20 secs while I got a towel.
I’m going to gaol for sure.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 8:18 pm
“I assume that’s day one. I will come up with new suggestions for day 2 of her reign of terror.”
probably day one by morning tea time.
candy
13 Sep 12 at 8:19 pm
I don’t quite understand what the argument is here. Several people don’t object to pool safety laws per se, just governments taking steps to ensure they’re followed?
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:20 pm
How old is your kid IT, four or five months?
sdfc
13 Sep 12 at 8:20 pm
Actually, 20 seconds for a baby alone in a bath is pushing it, IT.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:23 pm
sfb, why do you post all day, everyday on a libertarian blog when you are big government statist? Serious question.
big dumb fu
13 Sep 12 at 8:23 pm
Meanwhile, in NSW and Victoria we have the final scene of Animal Farm. The new guard has transformed seamlessly into the old guard.
dd
13 Sep 12 at 8:24 pm
Yes, yes.
You couldn’t counter my superior plan for Zero Child Drownings through Superior Legislation, so you went full ::flail::
The other Steve’s concern about child suffocation and child choking on foreign objects is touching too. Let’s wire all children’s jaws closed so they can’t put anything in their mouths which, swallowed, might cause them to choke; and let’s handcuff them to sturdy straight-backed chairs so that they can’t get themselves in the position where they might suffocate themselves.
With enough legislation, no child will ever die a tragic accidental death ever again.
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 8:25 pm
5 months next week.
It was about 5 seconds but that doesn’t really have the dramatic effect I was going for. I called someone from the government to mind him while I got the towel but they said they couldn’t get there until next year.
Infidel Tiger
13 Sep 12 at 8:27 pm
sfb, why do you post all day, everyday on a libertarian blog when you are big government statist? Serious question.
Probably because he’s not a pansy afraid of a little debate.
sdfc
13 Sep 12 at 8:28 pm
My fully fenced and totally safety compliant pool has been that way for 26 years and I’m not sure exactly how paying an extra $150 come in to have council clipboard holders to check it out will make it any safer. I’ve been a trained teacher of swimming to children and am totally vigilant about watching visiting children. Even my adult children know that I don’t like them using the pool when there is no one else at home in case of an accident.
BUT…not one kilometre up the road is a housing development built 15 years ago on land owned by the Defence Department. Every single day I drive past the lovely open park that fronts the development with two, fully approved by council, UNFENCED, ornamental lakes. Those lakes would be much easier for a scarpering, unsupervised toddler to get to than any pool in someone’s backyard.
So, tell me again how this makes sense to anyone with half a brain?
Megan
13 Sep 12 at 8:28 pm
sdog, sorry. People are not going to be in uproar about laws that ensure better compliance with laws that they consider are sensible.
You can continue your reductio ad absurdum as much as you like, but more sensible people than you will accept these laws.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:28 pm
So not mobile yet. You’re in for a surprise if you don’t think small children can move bloody fast when your back’s turned.
sdfc
13 Sep 12 at 8:30 pm
He’s hiding in the laundry, with a laptop and an open bottle of Cuddly Soft.
IYKWIMAITYD
lotocoti
13 Sep 12 at 8:30 pm
Well, I’m glad IT that I didn’t call you as big an idiot as I thought you really were if it was a full 20 seconds.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 8:30 pm
Well gee Steve, it’s almost like there’s a range of responses and maybe some of us who actually live here, where we will be affected by this law (unlike you and m0nty who live in “extremist” “uncivilised” states without this law who prefer to let toddlers die) feel that this law is absurd and draconian, and know that it has less to do with safety than helping councils monitor building regulations.
The question is though, is there anything, anything at all that a government in this country could propose that you and m0nty wouldn’t immediately be in favour of?
Oh of course…if a government is in favour of decreasing the size of government, that really gets you going with the extremist talk.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 8:34 pm
No more ornamental lakes. They must be fenced off and regular inspections. Same goes for rivers and creeks.
dd
13 Sep 12 at 8:35 pm
Hey Dog, I thought of you when I saw this shit on TV tonight – NSW cops bragging about their new in-car tech that enables them to slam huge fines on people for unlicensed, unreg, etc, using central databases. If they tried this on American TV, especially in the South, I’m guessing, there’d be a riot and the state police chief would be sacked. Australia is the over-governed, fascist capital of the world; government here boasts about the nanny state’s intrusion on people’s lives.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 8:36 pm
Perhaps there was only an two cm of water in the bath.
See there you go again, assuming that you know better than kids own father.
Leftism really is a mental illness.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 8:37 pm
It’s the creation of a new bureaucratic monstrosity that causes concern.
dd
13 Sep 12 at 8:37 pm
Praps ALL bodies of water should be banned for 2 years until the proper science is gathered.
jumpnmcar
13 Sep 12 at 8:41 pm
The underlying law requiring pool fences, yes. Which has been in effect in all Australian states, to a lesser or greater degree, since the early 90s when the standard for pool fences was established.
Your argument is about enforcement of the underlying law with a new law to enforce it more stringently. (Ignoring radical extremists like Dot who also attack the underlying law, for the moment.) Cato wants every law to be enforced with reference to a CBA right up to the point where the accountants judge it not worthwhile to keep saving lives. In this case, a CBA is overwhelmingly in favour of enforcing the law. What other argument against it can you provide, other than a dogmatic hatred of all regulation?
The only part of this where I’d be on your side is if the fees for inspections ended up providing revenue over and above the compliance costs for government. In that case, it would be a thinly veiled revenue generation tool, like speeding tickets. I wouldn’t put it past any Premier to do that in the current environment.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 8:43 pm
No, no. It’s only pools which are the problem. I spent much of my childhood on the narrow end of a barrier island with the unfenced ocean as my back yard, and we also lived on the unfenced Intra-Coastal Waterway for a time, with an unfenced dock and an unsecured boatlift we used to take great delight lowering each other into the deep, cold, muddy, barge-churned water on. Didn’t have a swimming pool but, which is probably why I’m still alive to tell the tale.
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 8:45 pm
Move along, nothing to see here, again!
blogstrop
13 Sep 12 at 8:46 pm
$150 for some jackboot Johnny with a clipboard to invade your home. Sounds like a bargain!
I am surprised they weren’t more innovative. What about high definition satellite monitoring? At the same time, they could get great pics of all the backyard white pointers to show in a powerpoint presentation at the Christmas party.
entropy
13 Sep 12 at 8:49 pm
None of the Steves (or m0nty, who is really an honorary Steve anyway) bothered to address this concern.
They must be happy for children to get squashed by cars. Why do you people hate children so?
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 8:53 pm
Anyway, it is about registering the pool, and is a one off fee, like a building inspection. I would have thought it a bit rough to hit up people that were already registered and complaint though.
And why have a separate compliance requirement to building inspection anyway?
entropy
13 Sep 12 at 8:55 pm
Don’t you see how the logic goes dd?
“Civilisation” requires that the all encompassing nanny state require people register their backyard pools to “save toddlers lives”.
But “civilisation” that also requires “public areas” and that the nanny state be totally immune itself from the suffocating laws that it imposes upon the lowly private individuals backyard.
When it’s about actions on public land it’s all about “personal responsibility” but when it comes to what happens behind closed doors…well can’t leave that to chance now can we? You can’t be trusted.
twostix
13 Sep 12 at 8:59 pm
Actually, twostix, the labor government here introduced a compulsory “sustainability declaration” on the sale of a house, which was widely loathed and widely considered a big waste of time. (Virtually everyone in Queensland has a building inspection anyway which tells them if there is insulation in the ceiling, electric or gas hot water, etc.)
I did not support it at all, and am more than happy that they have been scrapped.
I am a reasonable person and make reasonable decisions but do not discount reasonable regulation as a better way of achieving things than ridiculous ideas such as dot has proposed in this thread.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
More unrest in Cairo.
“If you not limitations for your speech be patients for our reactions, American dogs”
FMD.
via Drudge.
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
As a Sydney resident with a ton of pools in my area but down on my luck a bit at the moment I’m checking out the private certification system.
Hopefully I can make out like a pink batts installer.
ie a bandit.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
I am not even sure of the exact fate of the fish.
- Steve from Brisbane.
Heterosexual sex is no longer necessary.
- Monty
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 9:03 pm
Or even better: one of those green house audit people at $1k a visit.
I’ll have to admit I have a rustle in my jimmies.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 9:08 pm
I am a
reasonable person and make reasonable decisionsdishonest cockheadTiny Dancer
13 Sep 12 at 9:09 pm
I am not even sure of the exact fate of the fish.
- Steve from Brisbane.
Heterosexual sex is no longer necessary.
- Monty
Why we fight.
dover_beach
13 Sep 12 at 9:10 pm
Well, don’t libertarian types love their reductio ad absurdum argument.
Because they can also deploy for absolutely every case where they want to whinge about government. How tedious.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:11 pm
Ah, Tiny Malevolent Dancer is back making witticisms of the type his specialises in: those without wit.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:14 pm
Lol
JC
13 Sep 12 at 9:15 pm
Stevie
Stop the bullshit. Tiny is doing the lord’s work.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 9:16 pm
SteveC understood my question about the fish. He answered it.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:17 pm
It wasn’t a question dummy. It was a statement. You obviously thought the trawler is playing catch and release.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 9:21 pm
Technically, m0nty is right. You don’t need to have sex to procreate any more.
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 9:23 pm
Actually the answer to the fish question isnt as stupid as all that.
The ship has a history of trolling West Africa and stripping it bare of smaller fish. Now there is only a bare bones fishery left it needs to find new grounds. Hence Australia and exporting to West Africa.
Presumably purchased by the fishermen who used to have a job.
It was ‘legal’ fishing mind you, it’s just the rules are *flexible*.
That said I think the ship should fish here. More efficient.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 9:27 pm
Yeah, ask any Zambian – they’re using IVF these days.
What Monty said:
This epically daft comment encapsulates the Mr Bean left’s unknowing infantilism when it comes to sex. Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
Heterosexual sex is necessary. Never more so.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 9:33 pm
Second time you’ve tried this tonight. Is that your conclusion, or simply the point in the conversation where you got tired of thinking?
Megan
13 Sep 12 at 9:33 pm
I was going to weigh in on the toddler-drowning debate with the toddler-getting-squashed-by-SUV statistic.
Clearly all driveways should be fenced with mandatory inspections. While we’re at it, bicycles and skateboards for kids should be banned, and we should erect 5 foot fences around all the roads. And every single stream, pond and fountain in the land should be filled in.
I grew up in a house with a pool, which was installed when I was 18 months old. We had no pool fence. In fact we had no fence at all. The neighbouring kids had an open invite to help themselves to a swim any time up until 5 pm.
I didn’t drown. Neither did anyone else, for that matter.
Toddler drownings are a tragic event. I support pool fences (and have one of my own). However, this absolute BS about inspections, fines and registrations is absolute crap. There is nothing in the world to stop someone from having a panel of fencing removed, and all the inspections and finger wagging isn’t going to stop that sort of person.
Driveways are more dangerous than pools, and every house has one. Supervision by parents is what is needed, and what ultimately makes the difference between life and death.
Note that many, many drownings occur in pools that are fenced. It can be a faulty latch, a gate propped open, or something as simple as a chair dragged over to the fence. I’ve seen a 2 year old scale a pool fence as though it wasn’t there, using her toes to grip the uprights like a native up a palm tree.
It’s the classic ‘won’t someone think of the children’ move – they force regulation and think that they have solved the problem, without once considering the massive cost on people and the economy in general.
Keep an eye on your kids and teach your kids how to swim.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 9:35 pm
To infinity and beyond!
Voyager set to be Earth’s first interstellar ambassador
The voyager spacecraft is leaving our solar system. I think that is a remarkable human achievement.
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 9:37 pm
Bullshit. One ship couldn’t come anywhere close to causing as much depletion as you suggest. Secondly the ship is inanimate. It doesn’t go off shipping all by itself. It’s how people use it that is the point. How they use it and whom is using it.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 9:38 pm
“Yeah, ask any Zambian – they’re using IVF these days.”
Non sequitur of the week.
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 9:39 pm
The left’s brain trust in action.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:43 pm
Translation: Shut up or we kill you, American dogs.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:45 pm
JC Ill search around for a link but I read the story a while ago, before the talk of it coming here.
The already overfished Western African area was stripped mined by this bad boy, and other similar ships probably, and basically totalled it. The governments are hopelessly corrupt and it just finished off what fish they had left.
I take a real interest in overfishing.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 9:46 pm
Don’t deny your greatness, Jarrah.
Strawman critiques no matter how inane are your forte.
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 9:47 pm
Because people kept arguing this way, after I made the observation once, I thought I would make the observation again.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:49 pm
Are you having a fit, Dot?
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 9:50 pm
He has no inkling why he does anything, Fu.Hhowever he gets attention here so he keeps coming back like a bad smell. Rotten limburger even.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:51 pm
“Are you having a fit, Dot?”
If it were Dot, I’d agree. But it was CL, so… par for the course.
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 9:53 pm
Funny but I thought CL wrote that. Are you ok monty?
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 9:55 pm
Gab, someone has to tell libertarian types that they are wrong.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 9:55 pm
“Don’t deny your greatness, Jarrah.”
You are too kind.
“Strawman critiques no matter how inane are your forte.”
I actively strive to avoid strawman arguments. I pride myself on grappling with people’s strongest arguments. You, of course, have no strong arguments, so it’s rather difficult.
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 9:55 pm
Ah right, well within his range.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 9:58 pm
The only way the sentence could have been more “CL poncey” would be if had fit “praxis” into it.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 10:03 pm
What is wrong with these people? are they insane, unfeeling or just evil?
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 10:06 pm
“The only way the sentence could have been more “CL poncey” would be if had fit “praxis” into it.”
You must have missed his phase where every comment had a French word in it. In italics.
Jarrah
13 Sep 12 at 10:06 pm
RE: the fishing
I couldn’t find a good link – all the top bings are basically greenie press releases.
The closest I found was an Economist from 2001 hinting at what would happen.
Not conclusive by any means I agree. But like I say the search engines are rooted by the lobbyists.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:07 pm
sorry for the run on with the link.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:08 pm
err, what is a “Sydney Sheik”?
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:09 pm
So, a thought crossed your mind? Twice. Must have been a long and lonely journey.
Megan
13 Sep 12 at 10:12 pm
And therein lies the problem, should we let groups of fuckwits decide for us what is the common good, or should we in the main be left to decide for ourselves.
Or in other words do we legislate for the dumbest of the dumb, or do we stay the fuck out of peoples lives.
Monty, SoB and the like are obviously not confident in their own ability to decide for themselves and so desperately want all decisions made for them and responsibilities abrogated.
Old Fridgie
13 Sep 12 at 10:20 pm
Non sequitur on the week?
RATFLMAO
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 10:21 pm
Yearly inspections if that’s what they are proposing is overkill. Inspection on house sale would probably cover most cases and could be rolled into other inspections which are commonly done at the same time.
Supervision is definitely the first line of defence. Things like pool fences or medicine bottles which are hard to open are there to buy some time when supervision fails as it inevitably will at times (very few parents are perfect).
The teaching your kids to swim thing is I think a good idea, but again no guarantee. My daughter has had weekly swimming lessons since she was 6 months old. She knows enough to get to the edge of the pool in an emergency. When I took her on holiday when she was about 2.5 we went swimming in a pool that had a ramp. Even with all the prior pool experience I was stunned when she decided to just walk down the ramp until her head was under water without trying to stay afloat. I was of course supervising her very closely and I pulled her up very quickly. She wasn’t distressed by the experience at all.
But apparently its pretty common for toddlers to just not realise they are in danger until its too late. They can fall in and simply decide not to attempt to surface/swim. So parents don’t even get a warning from hearing their child splashing around or yelling for help.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 10:23 pm
DaveF
One ship is big enough to cause the problem you suggest. The African coast is a pretty big freaking place.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 10:24 pm
oops…… isn’t
JC
13 Sep 12 at 10:25 pm
JC: I’ll be dropping it now because it’ll drag on and I can’t find anything red hot to back me up.
But…
Its only a few countries coasts that were plundered – the bit that sticks out in the upper west of the continent. And I’m certain the Dutch ship was named and shamed a while ago but, like I say I can’t back it up.
Fortunately Australian
hashad a chance to save the African fisheries…DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:31 pm
Heh. Peter Slipper still being paid to be the Speaker.
——————————————————
Emerson in QT gestured the Italian arm symbol for F.U.
Twice. At the coalition women. How low-rent is that? How misogynistic but, of course, no word from the Feminazi Labor coven. And not a peep out of the partisan hack sitting in as Speaker.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 10:32 pm
Shit. What a difference a month or so makes.
Here’s the problem though, both Italy and Spain are selling bonds in the shorter end of the spectrum, which means they are shorting duration and open for really big rollover risk down the road.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 10:33 pm
sort of snap, Gab
Did he. You sure he wasn’t gesturing to the slapper?
Keep classy Labs.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 10:35 pm
StevieLiar QC, if you had a moments insight you would stop.
Tiny Dancer
13 Sep 12 at 10:37 pm
I’ll add my 5c to the swimming comments.
I live at the beach and my nephew and niece come over pretty often. They had swimming lessons from maybe 1yo.
But what I do notice is at 3 and 5 they have more clues than a lot of the overseas kids (in this area it’s Europe basically). I’ve semi rescued more than a couple from the surf as their parents casually watched.
And I don’t think I’m cautious around kids.
Really supervision is what it’s all about.
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:38 pm
He’s addicted to the Cat, Tiny. can’t keep away from the place. Gets his ass handed to him day-in day-out. He’s been mouthing off all day, said nothing though.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 10:39 pm
There’s a transcript of the recent Background Briefing episode on the supertrawler. I think the show did a good job of presenting the arguments from both sides.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2012-08-12/4185150#transcript
Reading the transcript now reminded me of the allegation that the supertrawler is heavily subsidised by the EU. As is the fish processing plant in Europe that it sends its catch to. Apparently without the government subsidies it wouldn’t be financially viable. Essentially its a government employment scheme and with the anti-trawler people claiming that the people really fish for government subsidies
I’m not sure that we should really care if the a foreign government is subsidising them, but if true is rather interesting.
Chris
13 Sep 12 at 10:42 pm
Ta for that Chris I’m reading it now
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 10:46 pm
Big mistake. They’re carrying on as if: a) they think people can’t see what they’re doing; b) fuck it, we’re arseholes, but aren’t we cool?
They’re going to get a hell of a shock when they see the way the public reacts. Reckless arrogance has become mental illness.
Tom
13 Sep 12 at 10:49 pm
A common fallacy. A drowning person makes no noise apart from a slight swishing of water. Screaming or yelling indicates that air is moving through the lungs, and splashing indicates that the person is able to life hands or feet above the water level. A drowning person will have both hands and feet below the water, desperately trying to get their mouth into the air. A drowning baby or toddler may not even be aware they are in danger until it is too late.
Children have drowned while their parents watched because the parents didn’t realize they were actually drowning, having been trained by TV shows that drowning people wave their arms and yell for help.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 10:57 pm
I note the centre right party has won in the Netherlands, on a platform of fiscal responsibility. So maybe there is some sanity in parts of Europe after all. I also note that, like the French, they actually have socialist parties. I cannot believe in this day and age there are actually socialist political parties, as though the soviet socialist republic was really a grand success.
brc
13 Sep 12 at 11:00 pm
Well I’d have to say that was the fairest ABC radio doco I’ve encountered.
Still reading though.
Thanks again
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 11:02 pm
I’m just astonished at the level of hate and the lies they come up with in an attempt to damage Abbott. They know he’ll be the next PM so they’re doing everything they can by attacking him on a personal level in the hope that if they sustain this fabrication of ‘misogynist’ long enough voters will believe it. Repeat a lie often enough etc…
However, it will backfire on them.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:02 pm
you know, I think that when it’s all said and done the Kenyan is going to win in November.
There isn’t a poll that Romney is leading in and his overall performance has been mediocre. Unless there’s some move Romney’s way soon this is the call as far as I’m concerned.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 11:04 pm
The Leg-over Man is a class act.
Along with The Goose, another Minister that will be turfed at the next election. Add it to the list.
H B Bear
13 Sep 12 at 11:06 pm
It’s sad because the Kenyan is an empty suit.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 11:06 pm
The Kenyan seems to be giving Iran, Egypt, Syria, Libya etc the nod and dissing Bibi. I’m expecting Iran (and perhaps others) to attack Israel before November in which case the incumbent will not be voted out.
I hope I am completely wrong about this.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:08 pm
Don’t worry, you are.
steve from brisbane
13 Sep 12 at 11:11 pm
The Oz media just apes the Yanks. You MUST hate the non left and they are so lazy they copy the talking points.
War on Women (seriously?) Hating on gays (really?) Big end of town (well maybe)
DaveF
13 Sep 12 at 11:11 pm
Someone on Lateline commending the practice of ‘being anonymous’ on the internet. Cybersafety etc. Yep, I’m with him on that. But not too anonymous. I like to know who I’m talking to a bit.
Funny though, I feel that I ‘know’ all of the regulars on the Cat, and think quite naturally of everybody by their ‘avatar’ (e.g. Gab, Blogstrop, Twostix, MK50, CL, Candy etc.) just as I think of my in-real-life friends by their names. I’ve been away for a week and couldn’t help wondering who was saying what, what I’d missed, who was ‘present’ and who was ‘away’ etc. In a week what a lot of new people are also coming in.
Well, I had a great week in Sydney, seeing old friends and going out a lot. Plenty of shopping (two new handbags, a trench coat, new shoes with a zip-up heel, more lingerie and a hat!). HIA turned up with some diamond earings (surprise xtra birthday present additional to the colorful cow)and swept me off to see South Pacific. Not really our demographic, he commented looking around, but we both loved it. Exceptional performances and staging, world class. Teddy’s singing as the French planter sent shivers all over me and HIA got an arm hugging workout during several of the numbers, especially during Some Enchanted Evening … his favorite, for when we met. Whatta romantic Ape.
The trip to the dentist though was pretty ordinary, except I had laser instead of the drill, and didn’t need an injection. First time ever for that!
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 11:18 pm
Finally you take the long view. Though by next week, you’ll no doubt change your mind again.
m0nty
13 Sep 12 at 11:20 pm
I’ve got nothing to worry about if they remove internet anonymity.
Once you stop wearing pants it is very liberating.
H B Bear
13 Sep 12 at 11:21 pm
What a civil chap. And Happy belated Birthday wishes too!
That’s a decent bounty. Well done.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:22 pm
Very empty. See the video thread on his identical empty rhetoric to his last campaign. Plus ca change.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 11:23 pm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/yemen-protesters-storm-us-embassy/story-fn3dxix6-1226473724724
The hate is very strong in them and they think nothing of killing the infidels. It is their duty.
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:30 pm
Monster
There’s no long view or short view in this, you dickhead. There’s no major poll or betting market Romney is winning. And yes, if the polls change I’ll change my mind and keep doing so. You have the mental flexibility of a walrus.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 11:31 pm
Speaking of empty……
The only known photo of Karl Marx and Barack Obama, together.
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 11:33 pm
lol Rudiau. Good one.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 11:35 pm
Sex is not merely necessary for procreation but for the unitive power it constitutes as the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth.
Absolutely correct.
dover_beach
13 Sep 12 at 11:37 pm
Ann Althouse:
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 11:39 pm
Absolutely correct.
Yes but the problem was that monty didn’t understand the big words CL used; and so, bamboozled, he proceeded to mock Dot over the comment. lol
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:46 pm
It’s all based on hope James. Hoping this or that will change direction of the election, but it’s not looking like it will happen.
The Kenyan is worse than Carter by a long stretch, but the big difference between then and now is that the media wasn’t in the can for Carter the way they are now. They certainly despised Reagan, but they were giving Carter a lot of shit too.
And people are thinking the debates will change things for the better. But the debate can also make it worse for Romney if he’s seen s fucking up and any little error or misquote etc will be used against him.
I think it’s over.
JC
13 Sep 12 at 11:47 pm
Oh, my.
sdog
13 Sep 12 at 11:47 pm
Too true, DB and CL, you sensible men. I am all for the unitive power of loving sex between a man and a woman as the bedrock of family life. And me a card-carrying non-believer too. You don’t have to be a Catholic to know this as a fundamental human truth (to gainsay those who will otherwise see this as just two ‘theologians’ at work).
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
13 Sep 12 at 11:49 pm
Labor MP Deb O’Neil today.
It being R-U-OK Day, a reporter asked her to comment on depression/R-U-OK Day and the concocted Abbott drama:
What bizarre comments. Anyone asked her “R-U-Ok”?
Gab
13 Sep 12 at 11:50 pm
RASMUSSEN POLL: ROMNEY JUMPS BACK INTO LEAD…
R: 47%
O: 46%
Drudge
Rudiau
13 Sep 12 at 11:51 pm
Just as we enjoyed your cluelessness about what an ad hominem is, Jarrah, we now see that you don’t know what a non sequitur is either.
You 1) altered what Monty said to rebut a more convenient proposition; and 2) agreed that human sexual reproduction (that is, planet-wide) is now unnecessary – whereas the alternative is in fact practiced by, and available to, an absurdly small number of mostly white Westerners. In doing so, you advertise the fact that, even as a sentient adult, you don’t know what sexuality is or achieves.
By reference to Zambia, I was illustrating the idiocy of your knee-jerk Monty bro-love. As if that partnership wasn’t destined for Epic Fail, you compound the embarrassment by indulging in a menage a trois with puzzled fish fate seeker Steve from Brisbane – by broad agreement, the site’s stupidest commenter.
Note that these lefties have now been effortlessly run full circle by me to transmogrify their pseudo-hip subjectivism into a version of extremist Carthusianism.
I did it as easily Robert de Niro ambushed Sean Bean with a cup of coffee in Ronin.
C.L.
13 Sep 12 at 11:52 pm
Former Univ. of Chicago law school interim dean: Obama was never offered tenure
JamesK
13 Sep 12 at 11:54 pm
CL sounds a lot like Viscount Monckton.
BTW, “is the evidence on which you based your claims different to those studies referred to in the article?”
SteveC
13 Sep 12 at 11:59 pm
LOL:
Obama was a lecturer and then a senior lecturer at the University of Chicago Law School beginning in 1992, and ending in 2004 when he ran for the U.S. Senate.
“When we hired Obama, we didn’t think we’d be hiring a future president of the United States,” Epstein recalled during a separate phone interview. Obama was given a “senior lecturer” position, Epstein said, but “[we] were trying to do right by Mr. Obama.”
Obama taught one two-hour seminar each semester and had no scholarly publications, Epstein said, noting what he called a lack of interest on the future president’s part. He saw Obama as having one eye fixed on academia and the other on politics.
Professor John Yoo of the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law, who was a visiting professor on the University of Chicago campus in the fall of 2003 while Obama was employed there, never recalls seeing Obama, though his office was across the hall.
JamesK
14 Sep 12 at 12:00 am
Harsh but fair.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 12:00 am
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444017504577647741062845840.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond
JC
14 Sep 12 at 12:01 am
Seriously, should this be a chargeable offense? Let there not be any confusion that I think badly of the muzzie punk.
Soldier of Fortune magazine also talked bout how to kill someone and how to use guns etc.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 12:07 am
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/greens-senator-lee-rhiannon-denies-al-qaida-proof/story-fn59niix-1226473783649
No comment.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 12:12 am
Firstly monty says that parents who greive cannot be punished anymore.
This is emotional pap. Sure they can. You can send them to gaol. On top of any grieving they do.
If people couldn’t be punished anymore for negligence other than grief, we wouldn’t have criminal negligence, let alone the tort of negligence.
Steve C then says I can’t be sure if just punishing negligence will work. Yes it can. You align the disincentive to the correct “price”. This is why theft has a gaol term of a fine to 2 years as a summary offence and as an indictable offence has five-seven-ten years depending on severity and murder is 25 years to life imprisonment. Some places even give the death penalty for murder.
Jarrah for some reason infers that punishing people doesn’t have a deterrent effect. Why do pool regs have fines then, Jarrah?
sfdc, supporter of crank Keynesian economics (remember, gentlefolk, Governments can borrow whatever the hell they like because “markets are large”, despite the US, German and Argentine currency all collapsing at least once in history) and the ALP, the party of mutli million dollar fraud against workers and home to child molesters like Orkopoulous, chimes in, like the dullard that he is, that the opinion that people ought to look after their own kids (held by people in the LDP, such as myself) is unpopular, dumb and whacky – despite a SMH poll (of all places, the epitome of smarmy inner city leftism) showing that it is the majority view and that the property owner has contributory negligence (which they probably do in most places).
.
14 Sep 12 at 12:14 am
Gillard ally in the news:
Greens senator Lee Rhiannon denies al-Qa’ida proof.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 12:20 am
I don’t want to alarm anyone but there have been several rabid beaver attacks in North Virginia
Infidel Tiger
14 Sep 12 at 12:23 am
Good little article in The Oz on the left’s agenda with homosexual ‘marriage’ – including the often wheeled out suicide sob story tactic.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 12:25 am
Unlike C.L., I think hetero sex between consenting adults ought to be encouraged, not to boost child rearing, but to save society from the sickos in the Australian Labor Party. Maybe to save them from themselves.
Do you have a position on the ALP, given the predilicton of its members to perform illegal acts with children? You have to admit it attracts creeps and is an outlier amongst political parties.
The fact of the matter is the whole party is unfit for office until they purge themselves of child abusers.
.
14 Sep 12 at 12:56 am
I don’t want to alarm anyone but there have been several rabid beaver attacks in North Virginia
Those lesbians should cover up, going nude in public is bad.
Dead Soul
14 Sep 12 at 1:25 am
One of the more hilarious things about CL’s flowery psalm is that it is also an argument for children in a SSM. After all, if the diad is experiencing that unitive power in simpatico (i.e. they’re rooting), it doesn’t matter what gender the two partners are, their child-rearing family life is undergirded according to that gospel.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 3:33 am
Over many years there has been a lot of voiced concern in this country about child protection. While that’s good, it has taken on at times a shrillness and crusading character at odds with the avoidance of the female genital mutilation issue.
As Tim Blair points out in a “no comments please” post today, it has been 18 years since the legislation passed, and we are now seeing only the first prosecution.
At the same time, Andrew Bolt observes that in view of the continuing pattern of a certain religion taking a set against the police, who are just doing what they should in raiding the ” small minority of misunderstanders” again, perhaps we should not be taking them as immigrants so readily. Nanny Roxon was chuffed to announce last night a thousand from Syria, another well integrated middle eastern polity.
May I submit that children are best protected by a healthy family environment and society, and that our society is being white anted by political correctness followed by the utterly predictable consequences of it. It is akin to robbing yourself of every protection against infection and invasion. We no longer even insist that citizens speak the language, let alone assimilate.
Blogstrop
14 Sep 12 at 6:38 am
Laurie Oakes maintains the line of the liars party AbbottAbbottAbbott.
They would rather believe Abbott is a thug than Gillard is a liar.
Splatacrobat
14 Sep 12 at 7:44 am
Splat,
They’re not dropping the BS either. Endlessly repeating the ‘scoop’ every ten minutes. This is what happens when you allow yourself to be interviewed by low rent idiotic breakfast television hosts masquerading as journalists.
Abbott stuffed up though by not pointing out the idiocy of the “I didn’t see it happen…..so I’am a witness” statement.
Dan
14 Sep 12 at 8:12 am
Is there a link for what Laurie is saying?
Steve from Brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:20 am
Remember the revelation in June that the Labor government had a “dirt unit” that’s “looking for shit on Labor’s opponents”, salaciously reported by all media including the ABC? So what’s the media’s reaction when the dirt unit starts behaving unethically? Enthusiastic Labor supporters, including one of Canberra’s longest-serving hacks, start volunteering to help. Yes, folks, stuff that was inconceivable even five years ago is really happening in Australia in 2012.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 8:24 am
The left never sleeps, thanks Jannie for that catch-cry.
The ABC this morning has two major preoccupations. The Abbott story, that they absolutely love to bits.
Then there’s the endless attention given to the processing of illegals on Nauru, which they are already saying isn’t going to work. Of course it won’t work, given that it is incomplete and done without conviction of any sort, and importantly no TPVs.
Richard Adey standing in for Frabjous Fran on RN breakfast studiously avoided mention of TPVs, then got Alison Carabine to interview at length a youth who was going to keep trying (tried twice before) to get to Australia by boat even though it’s dangerous.
The left will not ever admit to any bias, nor will they stop white-anting Australia.
blogstrop
14 Sep 12 at 8:29 am
Dirt unit behaving unethically?
Steve from Brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:31 am
Does the right ever admit to bias?
Steve from Brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:32 am
Happy to see me, fellas? Go on, time for some SfB bile. Let it out…
Steve from Brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:34 am
I’m glad that issue is being interogated and examined. This point seems to be the emotional lever that so many discussions on the matter hinges.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 8:38 am
I’ll enjoy whipping you around the park over this one.
Bolta notesall the time he is conservative so people can judge his opinions. The legion of Lefty trolls who vote Labor/Greens in the Stenographers Guild do not do the same.
Greg Sheridan stated clearly in his defence he had a personal friendship with Tony Abbott. At no time do the legion of Lefty trolls who vote Labor/Greens in the Stenographers Guild.
e.g. 1 George Mega is the ex-husband of the Qld Labor Opp leader, does he note that when he comments on Qld gov?
2. George Mega & The Gitt have has been asked to contribute to policy by Rudd/Gillard Labor, does he note that when making a comment?
3. PvO wife sits as a chair of an organisation representing illegal immigrants arriving by boats, does PvO declare that when making a comment?
etc.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 8:43 am
SfB’s attention-seeking is reaching pathological levels.
sdog
14 Sep 12 at 8:46 am
I heard interviews about this today and what was striking is the religious leader in charge of the congregation directed the members of his flock to lie to police over the matter.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 8:49 am
Can we please have a “Don’t feed the troll day” today?
Seriously folks, it has gone past the point of being funny. Let’s just ignore them for a day because I am sure that even attention starved unemployable fuckwits will eventually get sick of being ignored, and they will stop posting inanity after inanity.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
14 Sep 12 at 8:57 am
Token: Gerard Henderson’s wife is very pro-migration and says she’s a bit of a “Lefty.”
Chris Uhlmann, who I consider gives softer interviews to the Coalition that it does to the Left, has a Labor wife. (I wish she would put him in the doghouse for some of his soft interviews).
Chris Kenny’s short bio at the Australian merely says he’s “a writer and columnist with The Australian who has worked in newspaper, television and radio journalism, as well as politics and media management, for three decades.” Doesn’t say that he ran for the Liberals.
The backgrounds of writers and reporters is of interest, but it is hardly something that we expect them to put as a disclaimer on every single thing they write or say. Partly because it doesn’t always reflect their own positions.
You basically learn their bias by reading what they write, and you make judgements about their reliability over time, and by comparing what they write with other reports.
Then you stop perpetually whinging about it and how its so unfair.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 9:04 am
Hey, if the end result of my taunting Tom, blogstrop and Chunkwart this morning is to get them to stop making such an intense effort on over-the-top personal abuse of someone who comes on an open forum and disagrees with them, so much the better.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 9:13 am
Grattan:
What a despicable creature is Grattan. No witnesses, just hearsay, and “credible” hearsay to boot.
I’m tipping all this will help that union thug in his defamation case against Abbott.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 9:15 am
TONY Abbott has admitted he was rude to his former political foe Barbara Ramjan, but denies he was ever violent, in his first public interview since it emerged he allegedly punched a wall “inches” from her head during his university days.
The Opposition Leader said the allegations were part of a targeted smear campaign by the Labor party against him. “I’ve been saying to Margie and the kids that they can expect a lot more of this between now and polling day,” Mr Abbott told the Nine Network. But he admitted he was rude to Ms Ramjan after she beat him in university elections, referring to her as “chairthing” rather than chairperson. “A lot of childish and immature things happen on student councils and I think I probably was guilty of using that silly phrase,” he said.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 9:18 am
Gab,
Does anyone actually read Grattan besides ALP hacks who lap it up?
Who out there in the real world besides political junkies knows who she is or trusts her?
She looks like a crazy old cat lady. Anyone who doesn’t know who she is will think she’s just a nutter.
.
14 Sep 12 at 9:20 am
Abbot should just keep on attacking Gillard.
It’s that simple.
Attack every single union rep in Parliament who has ever been accused of fraud – Shorten, Conroy, Gillard, the whole lot of them.
Brandis ought to go full frontal and accuse Lee Rhiannon of treason.
.
14 Sep 12 at 9:24 am
After hearing how generous those payout for Fauxfacts are, it sounds like Grattan, who has around 50 years service with the company, is trying to get herself sacked for creating an unacceptable litigation risk for the organisation.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 9:25 am
Abbott holding presser about the abysmal state of Gillard’s mess on border policies. Reporters haven’t asked one question about that but launch
an attackinto the concocted story about Abbott’s alleged behaviour when he was 19 yo.‘Alleged’ that’s not a word you hear or see the government stenographers use in relation to this, no they’ve decided, as judge and jury, that he’s guilty as charged.
‘Alleged’ is a word used profusely in relation to Gillard assisting her boyfriend in a fake union slush fund. Even though she admitted to it.
You should hear how these “reporters” are going at Abbott over his student days. If only they had the integrity to do the same to Gillard instead of fawning all over her.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 9:26 am
Hopefully they just fire her fat morbid old arse and then Gina can keep the change.
.
14 Sep 12 at 9:27 am
Ms Grattan is 70. The thought processes have hardened and are inflexible, as happens to the aged.
candy
14 Sep 12 at 9:27 am
One of the more hilarious things about CL’s flowery psalm is that it is also an argument for children in a SSM.
No, it isn’t since sex between same-sex partners can never produce their own children. It is “One of the more hilarious things” that this has to be pointed out to you though, monty.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 9:30 am
At nineteen he can use the “young and naive” believably, Gillard at thirtyfive….not so much.
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 9:31 am
As M0nty predicted, the Labor dirt unit in combination with Labor MPs and their lapdogs in the media, the focus has been turned onto Abbott and away from serious fraud in the Trade Union movement.
I do listen to his insights into the workings of the Left even though I find the actions and thought of that combined group disgusting.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 9:38 am
How do you explain liar-steve™ and his thought processes such as they are , Candy?
JamesK
14 Sep 12 at 9:39 am
She’s 68 according to Wikipedia.
I think her take on things is sometimes wrong, but she is basically cautious and more or less balanced when you take into account that the journalism profession is just “naturally” always going to attract more people with a bit of bias towards the left.
To rant and rave about that all the time would be similar to freaking out every day that there seem to be an unusually large number of gay men serving you meals on airlines.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 9:41 am
‘If we squeeze our eyes shut and don’t talk about it, it will all go away’. Aided and abetted by the government stenographers, naturally. Or perhaps they think Gillard’s gag order applies to them.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 9:44 am
Now now, Candy. We can’t be too harsh on her due to her age, I mean SFB denigrates scientists and commentators – who don’t ‘believe’ in the climate alarmism being manufactured – due to their age. He’s an ageist but we don’t need to be like him.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 9:50 am
No hyperventilating yet from Steve about the Fed’s announcements overnight. Great news for those of us in favour of nominal GDP level targeting. The recession may have already begun, but at least the Fed is now on the right path for next time.
Sleetmute
14 Sep 12 at 9:51 am
“She’s 68 according to Wikipedia.”
my mistake, it’s Laurie Oakes who’s 70. Same thing, inflexible thought processes, losing grasp
candy
14 Sep 12 at 10:03 am
These sorts of cases when reported absolutely need to be prosecuted strongly with long sentences if found guilty and very publicly too as a deterrent to others. Hopefully with a lot of publicity we’d see other victims realise what they have had done to them is not acceptable or legal.
My understanding from reports is that the authorities discovered it only because a friend/relative reported them. Given the age of the victims its not surprising that the reports are fairly rare – young children are unlikely to inform on their parents especially if they don’t know any better. Given the legislation has been around now for 18 years, perhaps we’ll start see victims now as adults and having left home reporting incidents that occurred when they were children, though its still going to take quite a bit of courage for someone to report their own parents.
Their religion is hardly unique in having problems with religious leaders complicit in child abuse. Wasn’t there a landmark case recently where for the first time in Australia a religious leader has been charged not with child abuse directly, but covering up child sex abuse?
Chris
14 Sep 12 at 10:04 am
There’s certainly now a lot of targets out there with money if Abbott believes he can win a defamation case against his accusers. I still don’t think we’re going to see him initiate one though, because as he admits a lot of childish behaviour occurred back then and he doesn’t want that brought into the public light. Neither do I think its particularly fair to judge someone by their university political behaviour 30 years ago.
Chris
14 Sep 12 at 10:09 am
Pru Goward noted today it is not only Muslims from North Africa that practice this barbarity, though most victims comes from that background.
She also noted that the woman’s hospital in Vic keeps stats on the # of grown women who come through that have been mutilated and it is in the hundreds.
She noted that an education on Australian values is critical if the message is to get out this barbaric child abuse will not be tolerated in Australia.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 10:12 am
The 9/11 attacks on the US embassies were not about a movie
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 10:14 am
Each one gets a clean and scale, then a wash and blow dry, then kissed and released.
God save us from the brain dead Leftards.
Winston SMITH
14 Sep 12 at 10:15 am
True, think what the majority of Australians would think of a leader of the AUS who allowed a policy like this stand:
If there was a president of that organisation who let such an insane rule stand in parliament, they should be named and shamed.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 10:20 am
Of course Abbott wouldn’t take defamation proceedings on something like this. Defamation is a rich person’s game, and generally only pursued in clear cases where you know you’d win. When it’s her word against his, you just wouldn’t risk it. And it is not likely to be highly influential politically anyway.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 10:23 am
Media and Obama out to lunch — Romney had it right
Simpler, Clinton agrees with Romney.
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 10:25 am
The Government ought to be careful here. Misprison of felony is no longer a crime and this is a good thing.
What matters is establishing a conspiracy or concealment.
However, if we apply the same standards, why aren’t Gillard, Shorten and Conroy in gaol?
.
14 Sep 12 at 10:25 am
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 10:30 am
Ladies and gents watch the US stock market fly 20%. Uncle Ben, you just gotta love him. Listen to him, follow his wishes and you could be rich.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 10:30 am
Lots to scroll, as usual.
I only want one update.
The fish – what was their fate?
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 10:37 am
Sushi.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 10:39 am
Battered
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 10:41 am
Sushi is life.
.
14 Sep 12 at 10:44 am
Isn’t Uncle Ben the man that the Tea Party Right (and Romney) are always muttering about and want to replace?
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 10:45 am
They were sent to darkest Africa, the dar continent, where according to Stepford, dark African people actually ate them.
Think about that for a second people! No wonder Step and other leftwingers are concerned.
No “Australian” fish to Africa is our motto.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 10:45 am
“The fish – what was their fate?”
sounds like a great title for an ABC documentary.
candy
14 Sep 12 at 10:46 am
Rudiau, have you been watching this government at all?
She can still use the naive defence, naive adj … “Showing lack of experience, wisdom or judgement.”
What part of that doesn’t describe her now or for that matter her indescribable government?
Rob
14 Sep 12 at 10:51 am
Yes Stepford, Romney will boot uncle Ben and the Romster will give the tea party its gold commission. Romster will then appoint someone with similar cred as Uncle Ben and the gold commission will hand the administration periodic papers supportive of a gold standard that will be ignored and possibly left unread.
It’s bullshit. The idea that Romster has suddenly taken a liking to a gold standard makes me giggle.
In any event Ben ought to be fired, but not for the reasons you think. Under his watch the Fed ran one of the tightest, harshest monetary policies we’ve ever seen in our generation and he and the board were primarily responsible for the crash and the level of unemployment we’ve seen. Furthermore he was too slow to react to the Fed’s mistake.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 10:51 am
Listen here, dimwits:
I was not sure whether all or some of the fish were for direct human consumption, particularly when one of the species mentioned was “redbait”.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 10:55 am
Shorter JC: yes, I agree, the Tea Party have silly economic ideas that Republican politicians who know better have to at least give lip service. But I am still happy for a Tea Party influenced bunch of politicians to take the economic reins.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 10:59 am
Steve is outraged at fish oil capsules?
I dunno. What the fuck is he talking about and how does that impact upon catch quotas?
.
14 Sep 12 at 11:00 am
You are correct, however her or her government using the word naive to excuse their current incompetence seems to me a little naive.
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 11:02 am
Actually JC the US should temporarily take on gold, at least to force budgetary discipline.
Then they should privatise currency and banking clearinghouse activity.
They also then should dismantle the semi socialist, corporatist structure of their mortgage market. It is a ticking timebomb. Another GFC can happen. The whole thing is batshit crazy and neither Lenin or Mises would approve of the sheer loopiness of the system.
.
14 Sep 12 at 11:04 am
WTF? The Dutch have a ‘Party for the Animals’?
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/dutch_greens_destroyed/#commentsmore
jtfsoon
14 Sep 12 at 11:06 am
Steve fb, according to seafish Tasmania “None of the catch will be used to produce fishmeal”. They have that on their FAQ. I guess they are sensitive about that for the reasons you identified. They have said the whole catch is for human consumption.
SteveC
14 Sep 12 at 11:06 am
Can someone give me a plot synopsis of “The Innocence of bin Laden”? Wiki is in coward mode so I can’t readily find out.
Remember, the Message also caused riots. It was pro moderate Islam and ecumenical. I had to watch it it in catholic high school. No reasonable person could possibly believe it could cause a riot.
.
14 Sep 12 at 11:07 am
Here it is. it has 2 seats in the Dutch parliament
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_the_Animals
The leader is a hottie. Just about the only reason to vote for it
jtfsoon
14 Sep 12 at 11:08 am
Google is your friend, you numpty: “An excellent food fish; marketed fresh or frozen”
sdog
14 Sep 12 at 11:11 am
Stepford
I agree with nearly everything the Tea party stands for except this, or at least those that do push for a gold standard and tighter monetary policy.
If this is the only crack you see light in terms of the differences between me and the tea party then hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha you’re an idiot.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 11:13 am
Yes, although more common in Muslim communities it also occurs in Christian communities in Africa. At least over there it appears to be a cultural as well as religious tradition. Though I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that a cultural tradition will be any easier to change than a religious one. In Australia the approach would be pretty much the same – education of the community and medical professionals should be aware and I think would be obligated to report cases) and strong enforcement of the law.
Chris
14 Sep 12 at 11:13 am
Europe’s leftwing media, such as the BBC, are trying to bury the fact that the Green Left lost 7 of its 10 seats in the Dutch national election at the weekend (scroll down to the state of the parties at the link).
Of course, there’s nothing to worry about in Australia. Reports of suffering caused by the air tax are just a beat-up and Lee Rhiannon (who’s never actually seen a tree, but is willing to declare she likes them if necessary) will soon be installed as Greens leader*. We love you, Lee; you’re the best. Please go ahead and knife Tubbsy for the good of the nation and the stability of your great party.
*According to a rumour I just made up.
H/T Bolt.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 11:18 am
America:
New cameras to watch cameras that watch you.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 11:18 am
sdog, it appears that redbait is also, indeed, used as bait:
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 11:19 am
From Schiff a few weeks ago. Why the Ryan plan won’t work and why it will dominate monetary policy ala the Mundell Fleming model.
Note that Schiffy boy and I still think Ryan’s plan is far, far superior to the Obummer’s.
If enacted today, the Ryan budget would so drastically upend the fiscal picture that the U.S. federal budget would come into balance in just… wait for it…. 27 years! This is because the Ryan budget doesn’t actually cut anything. At no point in Ryan’s decades long budget timeline does he ever suggest that the government spend less than it had the year before. He doesn’t touch a penny in current Social Security or Medicare outlays, nor in the bloated defense budget. His apocalypse inducing departure comes from trying to limit the rate of increase in federal spending to “just” 3.1% annually. This is below the 4.3% rate of increase that is currently baked into the budget, and farther below what we would likely see if Obama’s priorities were adopted.
Because there are no actual cuts in his budget, Ryan hopes that fiscal balance can be restored by 2040 only because he assumes that we achieve returns to the annual economic growth that are equal to levels averaged for much of the last century. In other words, he sees slow growth of the last four years as the aberration, not the new normal. As with all other government projections, this is on the extreme optimistic end of the spectrum. In truth, there is nothing on the horizon that should make anyone think these growth figures will be achieved. America’s crushing debt, burdensome regulations, political paralysis, and nagging demographic problems bode poorly for the return to trend line growth anytime soon. More likely, based on the speed towhich republicans will shrink from popular backlash, is that the “cuts” that Ryan proposes will be abandoned as soon as they prove to be politically unpopular.
In fact, among his other overly-optimistic assumptions are that the unemployment rate falls to 4% by 2015 and an unprecedented 2.8% by 2021, another real estate boom begins almost immediately, and there is an average inflation and ten-year treasury rate for the next ten years of 2.04 and 4.15 respectively. These are assumptions that would make even the most rabid economic cheerleaders sit on their pompoms. Despite these pollyannish economic growth and record low unemployment projections, Ryan still assumes interest rates will remain near historic lows and that none of the cheap money showered onto the economy will ever find its way into the CPI. In other words, it’s the economic equivalent of winning the lottery twice in a row while failing to account for the higher taxes that accompany such good fortune.
Like all other government forecasters, Ryan never considers how rising interest costs on the many trillions of dollars of outstanding government debt hold the potential to completely upend budget projections.
More likely, the continued accumulation of unsustainable levels of debt under the Ryan plan will eventually cause our creditors to lose confidence in our ability to repay. It will cause interest to spike, the economy to tank, unemployment to soar, spending to rise, revenues to decline, and the budget deficit to spiral out of control. Rising interest rates hold the potential to spark a sovereign debt and currency crisis that willrender the entire plan irrelevant anyway.
While I appreciate that Ryan has the courage to take a position at the vanguard of his party in the campaign for fiscal responsibility, the modesty of his plan is just the latest reminder of how utterly divorced from reality Washington politicians remain. Like all of his brethren, Ryan is pinning his budget battling plans on the pain free “grow your way out of it plan.” But as long the government consumes so much of the nation’s productivity, the conditions to create that growth will never occur. Hope is not a strategy.
.
14 Sep 12 at 11:20 am
Enacting the third leg of quantitative easing, or QE3, will take the Fed’s money creation past the $3 trillion level since it began the process in 2008.
Sounds like nothing could go wrong JC.
Lotsa lucre to be made artificially on the stock market which will be moved to gold by the same investors when it’s clear the US has inflation and a recession.
Bernake wants to help Obumma.
Isn’t that nice?
If Obumma actually wins then instead of a stimulus it will have been a sugar hit rather than a stimulus and stagflation will become inevitable.
JamesK
14 Sep 12 at 11:20 am
Last post from Winston – decided to go back to posting under my real name instead of using a nom de blog.
“Damn the torpedos – full speed ahead!”
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 11:22 am
Steve from B is concerned that baitfish are processed to be used as bait for sustainable commercial fishing of large pelagic species.
I wonder if Steve will protest the exploitation of native pastures in winter cropping for winter forage in sustainable no till agriculture?
It’s an outrage, isn’t it Steve?
.
14 Sep 12 at 11:24 am
CL, I forgot to congratulate you on your 11.52pm comment. Masterful.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 11:29 am
Some considered thought about the reporting by the US media of the election:
[H/t Instapundit]
Token
14 Sep 12 at 11:35 am
Um, ShitferBrains, where do you think fish oil comes from? Trout Bushes? Tuna Trees? Whale Palms?
And if you’d read your own quote, you would have realised a very simple fact: Rendering fish to make fish meal is energy intensive because fish aren’t made only of fish. They are made of fish and water! So when you get rid of all the fishy water, you end up with dry fish. Ergo, Fish meal!
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 11:35 am
For puzzled fish fate seekers everywhere…
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 11:36 am
Is this her.
Here it is. it has 2 seats in the Dutch parliament
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_the_Animals
The leader is a hottie. Just about the only reason to vote for it
She’d get my vote. I love animals . Love them.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 11:38 am
I love eating various types of animals, Marianne, if that’s any help.
Am I in?
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 11:44 am
I bet you’re a longstanding vegetarian too, JC, aren’t you?
jtfsoon
14 Sep 12 at 11:45 am
“Jarrah for some reason infers that punishing people doesn’t have a deterrent effect.”
Inferred from what? I think you meant ‘imply’, and no I didn’t. I was asking a more abstract question about what is better from a policy perspective – reacting after the bad thing happens, or preventing the bad thing. A preference for the latter underpins a great deal of government regulation. Naturally, prevention is unlikely to be total, can get very very expensive, suffers from diminishing returns, etc. So it’s by no means universally preferable. But there are going to be situations when it is.
Small infringements on personal liberty that have a disproportionate benefit in terms of safety are an obvious class of regulations that qualify. The compulsory wearing of seatbelts, for example. Compulsory pool fences are much less likely to fulfil that cost/benefit analysis, and even if they did, intrusive inspections would not.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 11:47 am
Love veggies Jason. Always loved them. Never eaten meast.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 11:50 am
Fixed.
Eddystone
14 Sep 12 at 11:51 am
sEddystone
14 Sep 12 at 11:52 am
The love affair between CL, dover and Gab continues apace in this thread, I see. It’s getting rather unseemly. Gab, these arrangements rarely work out well, particularly for the woman.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 11:56 am
We all know that mass killers wouldn’t be deterred by citizens legally carrying firearms, don’t we?
So why did the Aurora killer pick the Cinemark theater?
Eddystone
14 Sep 12 at 11:57 am
I wish Les was here – *sigh*.
- Fish whisperer, Steve from Brisbane.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 12:01 pm
From this picture, Marianne may end up looking like this a bit down the track
Dan
14 Sep 12 at 12:03 pm
A properly enforced manslaughter crime is a disincentive before the fact, Jarrah.
We are better off doing this than making up regulations everytime something awful happens when people fail to act responsibly as parents.
All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved.
A strong manslaughter law will be stochastically dominant over some lame building regulation unless that too is rigidly enforced with harsh penalties. Of course it will be wildly inefficient and onerous, and collectively punish people who have never actually endangered their own children – nor anyone else’s.
Please. Stop it with the lame inferred crap. You and Steve C were proven wrong before and are wrong now. Admittedly you made an abstract claim and tried to reach a conclusion based on evidence. You did not make an explicit or assertive claim.
.
14 Sep 12 at 12:04 pm
Yes, I still do, CL. He was a frquently amusing fellow.
Go on, do “praxis” for me. It’s been a while.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 12:04 pm
Thank the lord
Bloomberg TV reports that Hooters is refreshing it’s image to attract female customers but it won’t change the skimpy attire and large breasted gals wait staff.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/hooters-looks-for-women-but-not-as-waitresses-SK585Mg~Q3SkU_egSUdjew.html
JC
14 Sep 12 at 12:06 pm
JC
14 Sep 12 at 12:07 pm
Especially when he was abusing you as a dishonest imbecile.
Would you settle for a genital wart or a penis?
I’m guessing yes.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 12:08 pm
Such barbarism deserves no less than deportation of all involved and removal of the child from the ‘culture’ of the perpetrators.
Well, obviously that won’t happen and probably isn’t overall in the child’s best interests, but it’s my first horrified response to this barbaric practice occuring in my country.
“education” is too tame a word to use. These people should be told, NO ENTRY AND NO STAYING, unless this practice is despised and refused, which is the Australian Way. Women who have already had this mutilation should be given MANDATORY counselling and assistance about the necessity to stop it.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
14 Sep 12 at 12:10 pm
Peh. Just like Obama apologises for the atrocities committed against America and bows down to the barbarians in the Middle East of Islamic cult, the stupid soft-headed socialist morons in this country bow down to all things Islam in preference to whatever is left of the Australian norms and way of life.
Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. The truth can have that effect.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 12:15 pm
Poor Steve. You still wake up sometimes, don’t you? You wake up in the dark and hear the screaming of the fish.
sdog
14 Sep 12 at 12:15 pm
CL and “winger” projection on display again.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 12:15 pm
Never come across it (FGM) in my practise Lizzie, but having lost my job previously for speaking up in defence of patients rights, would do it again with no worries.
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 12:17 pm
Excellent, Spot.
ShitferBrains, you really should take time out for a holiday. Your devotion to duty and the Labor Way has been commendable. I’ve booked you and Kimberly onto a sea cruise. Good fishing opportunities, and plenty of sea breezes. Destination is a surprise, but here’s a clue: John West.
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 12:21 pm
do not recognise our laws.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 12:23 pm
Chris, please don’t bother equating kiddy fiddling with FGM and – what next? Perhaps “honour” killings?
The Catholic church set itself up for a fall by not allowing married clergy, but I have no sympathy for any of the perpetrators there or in the Anglican, or any church, cult, or social group of any sort. But don’t try and deflect from or equate the utterly abhorent islamic practices. It diminishes you.
blogstrop
14 Sep 12 at 12:24 pm
The Catholic church set itself up for a fall by not allowing married clergy,
No, since chastity doesn’t seem to be at all correlated with child sex abuse.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 12:31 pm
In any universe non-parallel, Obama’s likening of the US’ Middle Eastern dead to his Vegas audience of contemptible schmoozers would have him toast.
It absolutely disgusts me that there are still Americans willing to vote for Obama because he is Young, Cool, Black and HipTM.
it is actually the height of racism to think that Obama has been a good president deserving of re-election – to hold that line you are refusing to hold him to the standards that any other person would be held.
As a completely blank screen, Obama won last time because enough Americans projected on to him their hopes, aspirations and hey-look-at-me-I’m-obviously-not-hung-up-on-race-ness.
This time, if enough want to project on to him their fears and disappointments, he will be toast.
And for his comments overnight, he deserves to be.
James in Melbourne
14 Sep 12 at 12:34 pm
“A properly enforced manslaughter crime is a disincentive before the fact, Jarrah.”
Yes, the threat of punishment has a preventative effect, but it’s an empirical matter as to which has the greater effect.
“Please. Stop it with the lame inferred crap.”
Don’t worry about it, it’s a reasonably common mistake.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 12:35 pm
OK, so who is correct? I’ve noted lefties spinning the meme that “FGM” or “cutting” is a cultural practice rather than one purely of that mediaeval death cult.
However, I do have one thing to say – start enforcing the laws of this country, you fucking socialist softcocks!
Mutilation of girls in this manner is utterly abhorrent and the perpetrators need to be jailed or deported, no fucking excuses.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 12:36 pm
But Rabz
It’s a cultural thing as “Germane” Greer said.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 12:38 pm
I’d argue very strongly that he is in fact, none of the things you’ve cited in your quote.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 12:39 pm
JC, that vile beast from hell is utterly barking fucking mad…
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 12:41 pm
Rabz, I put that poorly. As I had hoped to imply with the TM, that is the way that Obama was packaged in 08. People bought it. What I meant to say, it is sickening that anyone would still think that way.
James in Melbourne
14 Sep 12 at 12:45 pm
Rabz – well cultural traditions have a habit of getting incorporated into religions and religious practices become cultural so sometimes you can’t clearly delineate the two anyway.
FGM pre-dates both Christianity and Islam. Not all muslims in Africa perform FGM and there are Christian communities who do. I would not be surprised if some Muslim communities see it intertwined with their religious beliefs though (but there are many Islamic religious leaders who condemn the practice).
It doesn’t really matter whether it is religious or cultural, neither background makes the practice any more acceptable.
They certainly need to be prosecuted and publicly punished. IIRC there have been allegations that families have been taking their children to Africa to have FGM performed on them. I don’t know if the laws currently extend to acts overseas by Australians (like happens with child sex abuse for example), but if not, should certainly be considered.
Chris
14 Sep 12 at 12:54 pm
Don’t worry about it, it’s a reasonably common mistake.
Maybe. But could you explain to me what the difference is precisely between an inference and an implication?
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 12:58 pm
Liberty quote!
Nanuestalker
14 Sep 12 at 1:01 pm
Rabz says Obama is not black?
So it’s true, wingnuts will say black is white.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 1:05 pm
Jarrah is wrong and refuses to admit it. I demonstrated why he was wrong.
Jarrah also refuses to acknowledge that the deterrence effect for crimes can simply be dialed up to get a desired effect. He then goes onto say the question is open ended and empirical – which is analogous to what I am saying.
From there, he believes he has proven that pool fencing regulations are always better than strict criminal negligence laws.
Bizarre.
.
14 Sep 12 at 1:05 pm
IMO, the election will be decided by a large group of middle-class whites regretting they voted for him in 2008. The polls probably won’t predict the swing because the swingers don’t want to be branded waaaayyycist and won’t tell anyone, let alone pollsters.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 1:06 pm
“Hate Tax”
He has a way with words, that Nigel Farage: the top income tax of rate of 75 percent that it is being introduced by France’s new president, the blandly thuggish François Hollande, is, says UKIP’s leader, a “hate tax for the successful”.
Can you imagine David Cameron saying something like that?
JamesK
14 Sep 12 at 1:06 pm
Suttee, the burning of widows, was a ‘cultural thing’ too. So are ‘honour’ killings of women and girls. The Nazis thought it was ‘culturally’ appropriate to throw people into gas ovens. Slavery was, and still is, a ‘cultural’ thing. Aboriginal squalor and child abuse in the NT is also ‘cultural’.
You can argue the small stuff, but ‘culture’ is NEVER a reason to drop standards of basic civilisation. Never. Piss off Germaine, I always suspected you were something of a fool, and now you have proven it.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
14 Sep 12 at 1:07 pm
James – not having a go. It’s more a visceral reaction to the fact that anyone would be stupid enough to buy any of those myths at all, evah, let alone now.
That and the fact that I hate the lying, lobotomised ignorant incompetent commie shithead with an undying passion.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 1:09 pm
dot, are you arguing that the mother who lost sight of her kid for a short time is the one who should be being charged with a criminal manslaughter, rather than the neighbour who had dilapidated pool fencing which clearly would not comply with regulations?
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 1:10 pm
Gee, I hope you are right Tom. Cheers me up.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
14 Sep 12 at 1:13 pm
Once more for the terminally stupid – obongo had two parents, one was white, one was black.
Why doesn’t he call himself white, half white or even black and white?
Because he, like you muttley, is beholden to the divisive, ridiculous, racist absurdity that is identity politics.
Quite frankly, the most apprpriate descriptor for obongo is “imbecile”.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 1:14 pm
So take your typical imperfect parent who loves their children very much and doesn’t want to see any harm come to them. Most likely if they were given a choice they’d willingly die if it meant their child would live instead of dying.
You want to stop them from doing something. On one hand you can threaten to kill their child if they don’t comply. What sort of punishment are you proposing that would be a greater deterrent than that?
Chris
14 Sep 12 at 1:16 pm
1. The Catholic does allow married clergy.
2. There is no correlation between non-married clergy and child sexual abuse.
3. There has been hardly any pedophilia in the Catholic Church, properly so-called.
4. There is a massive correlation between the clerical sexual abuse of minors and homosexuality.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 1:18 pm
Rabz is being consistent with Lefty labelling.
Just as the Hispanic Zimmerman was relabelled a White-Hispanic for having a parent of non-hispanic background, all people who are culturally sensitive should ensure the mixed culture Obama is referred to as a White-Black.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 1:22 pm
I wonder if envy tax is more appropriate
vr
14 Sep 12 at 1:25 pm
He calls himself Barack, most likely. Or hey, maybe Mr President.
He identifies with black culture. How can you or anyone deny him that, Rabz? What right do you have to impose identity on him?
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 1:25 pm
The Onion totally nail the Religion of Peace.
WASHINGTON—Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.
Pic is totally NSFW
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 1:27 pm
“He’s a light-skinned negro.”
- Harry Reid.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 1:28 pm
Onion link
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 1:28 pm
You are a full spectrum bullshit artist.
If they negligently cause their children’s death, regardless or not of following a OH&S directive, charge them with manslaughter.
You compare this with actually killing their children for not having pool fencing.
You are a full blown fuckhead.
.
14 Sep 12 at 1:31 pm
That movie based on Augustine’s Confessions looks interesting.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 1:31 pm
Could it be that any one of our serial pests here hasn’t been blogging from his Mom’s basement after all, but from his ex-girlfriend’s attic?
Hmmmm…
sdog
14 Sep 12 at 1:31 pm
Obama-Endorsed Occupy Thug Rapes Woman – Tosses Her Off Two Story Bridge.
Nancy Pelosi on Occupy rape movement: “God bless them.”
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 1:32 pm
Bullshit. He identifies as ‘black’ because it’s given him unobstructed access to a multitude of privileges denied to designated non-victims – education and employment being two examples.
And finally – vote for me, I’m ‘black’!
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 1:33 pm
150 criminal court cases and 129 civil court cases is “hardly any”?
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 1:33 pm
That’s awesome, DaveF. Good catch.
sdog
14 Sep 12 at 1:34 pm
What the?
These guys are heroes:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/men-jailed-for-killing-machete-menace-20120913-25v6x.html
And instead they are gaoled.
Infidel Tiger
14 Sep 12 at 1:36 pm
In this country it’s a crime, guys.
End of story.
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 1:36 pm
That’s becuase they’re not deranged, nor do they belong to a barbaric ‘religion’.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 1:38 pm
I’m sure people who lose a child through drowning through misattention are thinkin about the consequences of a potential manslaughter charge at the time. Deterrence works when the crime is pre-meditated.
“Oh I better fix my pool fence or I might get charged with manslaughter”
SteveC
14 Sep 12 at 1:39 pm
CL, it has widely noted, by everyone from Tony Abbott to the present Pope, that there has been a disproportionate number of gay men in seminaries for quite a while.
While the conservative take on this as being at the heart of the Catholic Church abuse problem is way, way, over-simplistic (to put it mildly), even if one assumes it is correct, surely the way to “de-gay” seminaries would be open up the priesthood to marriage, so that heterosexuals will not be dissuaded from going into the priesthood at the cost of having a sex life.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 1:39 pm
The ex boyfriend in the attic was an ex from 12 years ago
Let it go, bro, let it go….
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 1:41 pm
This is what I find is BS, IT
Defensive homicide? What a bizarre set of laws they have in Victoria.
.
14 Sep 12 at 1:44 pm
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 1:45 pm
That decision was a disgrace, IT. Was there a jury concerned?
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 1:46 pm
That’s precisely how it works, Steve.
“I better keep my eyes on my kids lest I be shit parent and be responsible for their death and punished by society”
Precisely how it works.
Unless you are saying that negligence cannot be deterred – well done, you’ve argued against the whole OH&S edifice. I suppose now you would like to see it dismantled?
Be honest.
.
14 Sep 12 at 1:47 pm
Remind me not to rescue teenagers from machete-wielding maniacs if the occasion ever arises.
dd
14 Sep 12 at 1:50 pm
It was probably the use of a fishing rod to beat the crazy guy that sank them…..
(fishing rod? ffs!)
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 1:54 pm
use of a fishing rod
Possession of a deadly weapon. That was the issue.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 1:59 pm
Credit where it’s due some Libyans had a pro US “we’re sorry” demo.
Looks like nobody was beaten up either. Lots of good photos here.
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 2:01 pm
The clinical definition of pedophilia does not refer to gender, merely age. Stop lying, CL.
The church accepted them, trained them and presented them to the public. Then when the church found out about them, the usual practice has been to deny, relocate, cover up and prevent litigation exposure.
The church’s current purge of homosexual priests is a complete denial of responsibility. No surprise that you’re running the Pell line, CL. The church created the conditions for abuse by building up priests as paragons of celibate virtue, and they continue to make the same mistakes. No wonder the church is less and less popular than ever.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:01 pm
“Jarrah also refuses to acknowledge that the deterrence effect for crimes can simply be dialed up to get a desired effect.”
Because it’s ludicrous. If that were true, then there would be no murder in places where that attracts the death penalty.
“He then goes onto say the question is open ended and empirical – which is analogous to what I am saying.”
So why are you saying you proved me wrong, if we agree?
“From there, he believes he has proven that pool fencing regulations are always better than strict criminal negligence laws.”
Stop lying. I never did that. I explicitly said pool fencing regulations were “much less likely to fulfil that cost/benefit analysis”. You’re the one saying – without a shred of proof, or evidence of having done such a CBA – that jailing grieving parents is always better than making it harder for kids to fall into pools in the first place.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 2:05 pm
I just cant picture how you’d use a fishing rod to beat someone. Grip it above the handle and thump him that way? Or whip him from a distance.
It’s like something from Shaun of the Dead.
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 2:05 pm
Kansas Secretary of State and Romney adviser goes full
retardbirther.m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:09 pm
monty’s on his ‘all Catholic priests are ped0philes/homos and thus all Catholics are vile’ crusade again.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 2:10 pm
I’ve just finished a wonderful book called “Wild Colonial Boys” following the escapades of the dozens of bush rangers who operated with total imputinity for years out in the NSW south west.
One of the things I couldn’t understand was that why after robbing hundreds of people, sometimes rounding up entire towns, none of their victims ever just shot them.
As it turns out it was a fear of largely the same thing: private individuals couldn’t shoot at somebody until they had been fired upon themselves and even then if they did so it was a gamble as to whether they would they could find themselves up on serious charges or not.
And so for about 15 years in NSW a totally (by force of law) defenceless citizenry found itself completely at the mercy of a group of organised criminals until the police finally had the presence and ability to stop them.
twostix
14 Sep 12 at 2:11 pm
Gab’s waving the pom poms again. Gimme a C, gimme an A, gimme a T, Gab!
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:12 pm
David Warren:
http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=3a384875-7d76-4736-9bbd-b8cdf5451efa
Ivan Denisovich
14 Sep 12 at 2:14 pm
Not your best effort Monty. I doubt Sinclair will pay you much for that comment generator.
Infidel Tiger
14 Sep 12 at 2:14 pm
Note the derogatory retort of misogynistic nature from monty. Note also monty has never ever spoken out against FGM.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 2:18 pm
‘Sactly Rabz. Just like Monst identifies as an extremely thin person.
JC
14 Sep 12 at 2:18 pm
Oh IT, go and experience the unitive power of the fundamental diad-of-simpatico undergirding child-rearing and family life everywhere on earth, will ya.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:19 pm
The hell? Why should I even need to? It’s an abhorrent practice and anyone who practices it, especially in Australia, should be put up on charges.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:22 pm
Right.
?
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most victims were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
We also know that proteant clergy commit the same amount of abuse (NYT), that Catholic priests commit no more abuse than any other men (Newsweek), and that the worst sexual abuse of children occurs in atheist state institutions (CBS).
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 2:23 pm
Note also that monty didn’t deny he believes all catholic priests are ped0philes and that he believes all catholics are vile.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 2:25 pm
“Heterosexual sex is no longer necessary.”
- Monty, fantasy football expert, committed celibate.
- Monty, political analyst, historian.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 2:29 pm
As usual, CL has no way to conduct any sort of logical argument, so he repeats his opening gambit of lies, and links to a bunch of unreliable surveys and guesstimations.
Catholic priests committing sexual abuse against boys is still pedophilia, clinically understood. Stop lying, CL. Always with the lying. You’re lying to help perpetuate an organisation’s practices to cover up pedophiles in its own ranks. You are a disgrace.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:34 pm
I generally don’t respond to stupid verballing tactics like that, Gab. Next you’ll be attacking me for not confirming water is wet.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:35 pm
CL is into “I repeat, I win” mode. And the pathetic hand wave of “but Catholic priests are no worse than men generally”.
Funny, but I thought we didn’t expect priests to behave like “any other men”.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 2:39 pm
Note monty continues to deny his beliefs. It’s also interesting that when an atrocity is committed in the name of Allah and the religion of peace, Monty goes full metal jacket on the Catholic Church.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 2:40 pm
Next you’ll be attacking me for not confirming water is wet.
Water is wet, your sex doll isn’t
Dan
14 Sep 12 at 2:40 pm
The term ‘pedophilia’ has no exact meaning. It was in fact invented by NAMBLA types who wanted the act of sexually molesting boys to sound somehow more respectable and highbrow.
But of course you can’t put lipstick on a pig and make it a swan. ‘Pedophilia’ soon became the easy word for all of us to use to decribe sexual molestion of children.
This means that even though pedo philia seems to have a meaning which refers to a psychological need to sexually asssault children, it is really now just a description of the act itself, as far as common usage is concerned.
Therefore, any adult molesting a child under the age of consent is a pedophile.
If the abuse is homosexual, then the term that is correct is ‘pederast.’
Rococo Liberal
14 Sep 12 at 2:44 pm
“Next you’ll be attacking me for not confirming water is wet.”
Well, you SHOULD be condemned for this blatant failure to acknowledge the truth of the matter. That you have wilfully and persistently avoided the self-evident facts is proof of your intellectual dishonesty and strident partisanship.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 2:45 pm
I understand where you’re coming from, Jarrah, but from where I stand the science is just not settled.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 2:46 pm
See? When it comes from the left ‘it’s a joke’ but when it is alleged to come from the right “it’s serious and disgusting” etc etc moral outrage ad infinitum.
Well, at least we now know Deveny doesn’t mast3rbate all day long with her crucifix.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 2:49 pm
Ain’t libertard world grand?
* Mother who took her eyes off her child for 20 seconds – you will be charged with manslaughter.
* mOnty – your silence on this matter will be noted and used against you.
* men who beat offender to death instead of giving him to the police “no problem – go free”.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 2:56 pm
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news#ixzz26PuhdUYe
The sooner Rhiannon becomes leader of the Greens, the better it will be for them.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 3:00 pm
Clinical definition of pedophilia:
monty, can we see the evidence that indicates that the those 13 years of age or younger are not a small minority of the victims of child sex abuse involving the Church? Failing that, an apology to CL would be in order.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 3:02 pm
Hey Jarrah, we know you are ignoring the other threads as you are not big enough to admit you are wrong.
Don’t get on your high hors and lecture people here about “partisan”, we know about partisan (like you attacks on Romney).
We live in a world where a Lefty lie is carried on forever, yet the truth is surpressed.
Expressed statistically:
[H/t Bolta]
Token
14 Sep 12 at 3:06 pm
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 3:11 pm
You are applying a restriction that the definition you quoted does not support. The definition does not require the victim to be 13 or younger. Don’t bullshit me, db.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 3:12 pm
“Hey Jarrah, we know you are ignoring the other threads”
No-one has responded to the substance my latest broadside, as far as I can see. Ironically, it was to point out that you (among others) were ignoring the facts. Unable to deal with reality, you retreated to insult.
“Don’t get on your high hors and lecture people here about “partisan””
Time to recalibrate your sarcasm meter, if you couldn’t pick up on mine.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 3:13 pm
Acording to twitter, Clive Palmer is considering his relationship with the LNP over the weekend.
Here’s hoping the idiot fucks off
Dan
14 Sep 12 at 3:13 pm
You are applying a restriction that the definition you quoted does not support. The definition does not require the victim to be 13 or younger. Don’t bullshit me, db.
I’ll embolden it for you this time, monty:
What portion, then, of those abused had yet to experience puberty?
I’ll, also, remind the reader of monty’s earlier comment:
The clinical definition of pedophilia does not refer to gender, merely age.
Now, it appears, it does not even refer to age, so far as monty is concerned.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 3:19 pm
What does that matter a tinker’s cuss, honestly? Is it not still a crime? What difference does it make?
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 3:22 pm
DB please remember that mOron and his comrades don’t view sexual offences against children with the abhorrence that the non-left do.
Tiny Dancer
14 Sep 12 at 3:24 pm
d-b fully supports CL-ian handwaving when it comes to Catholic sex abuse scandals.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 3:25 pm
Almost everything every government, including the current one, does will be opposed by an unelected bureaucracy intent on imposing a ludicrous set of “human rights” rules requiring the removal of all disincentives for illegal immigrants:
Be prepare to wage years of a war of semantics with the extreme left in the bureaucracy whoever is in power.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 3:27 pm
In South Korea:
Twenty-eight percent of 9.84 million households can neither pay off the principal and interest of their debt nor make ends meet with their current income, according to a study.
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 3:28 pm
You utter moron, Malevolent. It is mOnty who is calling out conservative Catholic CL and his sidekick Medieval Man for continually stamping their feet that the focus on Catholic scandal is so unfair.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 3:28 pm
dover_beach @ 1:31 pm
Thank you for the heads up re Restless Heart: The Confessions of Augustine
I’ve just watched the trailer here
Outstanding!
Grigory Potemkin
14 Sep 12 at 3:29 pm
Honestly, that film looks to have the same cheap looking, cheesy acting, made purely for polemic production values as the Atlas Shrugged
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 3:33 pm
See? When it comes from the left ‘it’s a joke’ but when it is alleged to come from the right “it’s serious and disgusting” etc etc moral outrage ad infinitum.
Reminds me of those Abbott posters in Plibeserk’s office
Joe
14 Sep 12 at 3:35 pm
What does that matter a tinker’s cuss, honestly? Is it not still a crime? What difference does it make?
It matters only to the extent that he referred to the clinical definition and you accused him of lying about it. Now, apologize, and we can move on.
d-b fully supports CL-ian handwaving when it comes to Catholic sex abuse scandals.
No, there is no hand-waving. It is appalling. The allegations this week about sex abuse in mental health institutions is also appalling. Apparently, the cause of that is celibate mental health workforuce.
sidekick Medieval Man
I see sfb seems to have blown a gasket. There, there.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 3:37 pm
“According to twitter, Clive Palmer is considering his relationship with the LNP over the weekend.
Here’s hoping the idiot fucks off”
Amen to that. He may even join the ALP… the fucking useless human canonball.
Kaboom
14 Sep 12 at 3:42 pm
No Jarrah, that isn’t true at all. You have just made an assumption that I didn’t make.
There is a maximum deterrent effect that can be produced – usually the death penalty.
This is obvious – why do I even need to make that qualifier? You are being an obsessively useless pedant. It’s insulting that I’d even need to make such a qualifier.
What is more insulting is being shown this useless fact after monty and chris told me that I couldn’t punish grieving parents anymore, or that charging them with manslaughter was like pre emptively killing their kids.
Because I did, and you didn’t understand that you contradicted yourself.
But you just said we agreed. I must be right.
Just give up Jarrah. Be a man. Drop the emptive shit “kids falling into pools”.
You are asserting that I am wrong (even though you agree with me LOL), and even if manslaughter carried the death penalty, society would be better off with pool fencing regulations and petty council inspectors fining people for non-compliance.
Because I haven’t done a CBA – dude, your position is just ridiculous.
Have you done a CBA – with your absurd assumptions?
.
14 Sep 12 at 3:44 pm
I asked if dot had evidence to back up his his assertion that strong enough penalties would reduce pool drowning because that was not my understanding of how crime deterrence actually works.
Here’s some evidence from the Bureau of crime stats that the assertion is not actually correct. I’m happy to see evidence of the contrary. “Because dot says so”, is not evidence.
SteveC
14 Sep 12 at 3:45 pm
CL was making a point about homosexuality, which the clinical definition of pedophilia does not reference. It was a non sequitur. As RL points out, no one in the regular community cares at all whether victims have passed puberty or not, nothing excuses the crime. Why would CL bring it up? He is the one who should be apologising for trying to muddy the waters and not condemning the Catholic church in the strongest terms for harbouring and covering up for sexual abusers.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 3:45 pm
No one argues that it is the sole cause, d-b. But everyone with common sense can see why it’s likely a contributory cause.
And given the dire lack of new priests coming through, when I’m sure the celibacy is a large part of the reason why, you can stick to your purity on the issue if you want, but you’ll have parishes in 10 years time getting a communion service done by lay people instead of a Mass 3 times a month, instead of having an priest available.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 3:46 pm
Honestly, that film looks to have the same cheap looking, cheesy acting, made purely for polemic production values as the Atlas Shrugged
The next installment is being released in the states pretty soon. They used different actors I understand.
Looking forward to it. Especially if it has a scene as good as the train one in Part 1. CGI has come a long way.
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 3:48 pm
Steve C – you idiot and liar – that study backs up what I said all along – prosecute negligent parents and let the courts decide what the terms of the punishment are.
The maximum penalty for manslaughter is 25 years IIRC (by legislation). Often it gets passed down as a suspended sentence. The fact is very few parents ever get charged with any form of criminal negligence.
The problem in current circumstances is that next to no arrests are made – the punishment couldn’t be any tougher, really.
The fact remains however you can always dial up the punishment (in this instance not necessary) or the arrest rates – currently near zero.
.
14 Sep 12 at 3:53 pm
How about that?
We have Monty, Jarrah, Shitferbrains and Steve C on the one thread, and immediately the topic turns to child molestation, the Catholic Church, and anything but the murder of an American Ambassador in a muslim country.
I didn’t see that coming….
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 3:54 pm
I have no doubt SFB is a complete hypocrite.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 3:56 pm
Nope. They’ve all been flown in. They’re all got names like Wenceslas or Abasifreke.
The church is a multinational and uses its global pool of labour to fulfil staffing requirements.
.
14 Sep 12 at 3:57 pm
No one argues that it is the sole cause, d-b. But everyone with common sense can see why it’s likely a contributory cause.
Why would anyone imagine that celibacy leads to men or women seeking sexual gratification with children? It’s not common sense, at all.
And given the dire lack of new priests coming through
This is a problem for churches with married clergy; so, again, no, your reasoning is poor, as is usually the case.
CL was making a point about homosexuality, which the clinical definition of pedophilia does not reference. It was a non sequitur.
FM. The lengths monty will go to to avoid a simple apology. But you didn’t address any purported non sequitur. And what you asserted was clearly wrong. Just apologize, and we can move on.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 4:08 pm
FIFO priests, now I’ve heard everything.
m0nty
14 Sep 12 at 4:10 pm
Nancy has done some fine digging over at Media Watch Dog to unearth letters written by Ramjen to Honi Soit about the howwible behaviour of Abbott and co shortly after the fabled events.
There’s no mention of the punch in the letters.
Obvious conclusion: it never happened, it’s pure made-up stuff.
Lazlo
14 Sep 12 at 4:11 pm
Judging by your ludicrous comments I doubt you’ve heard anything.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 4:12 pm
“We have Monty, Jarrah, Shitferbrains and Steve C on the one thread, and immediately the topic turns to child molestation, the Catholic Church,”
Fuck off, douche. I’ve got no part in that discussion.
“and anything but the murder of an American Ambassador in a muslim country.”
Different thread, idiot.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 4:15 pm
Potemkin’s Village
Greens – Warning: May Contain Nuts… here
Grigory Potemkin
14 Sep 12 at 4:16 pm
Thanks for posting that, Lazlo.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 4:17 pm
About what, Gab?
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 4:18 pm
No dot, that’s not what you said. You said on a number of occasions that increasing the penalty would reduce pool drownings.
if we merely prosecuted irresponsible and negligent parents with strong enough penalties
You align the disincentive to the correct “price”. This is why theft has a gaol term of a fine to 2 years as a summary offence and as an indictable offence has five-seven-ten years depending on severity and murder is 25 years to life imprisonment. Some places even give the death penalty for murder.
All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved.
All you have to do is dial up the punishment until the desired outcome is achieved.
The study I quoted does not back up your assertion. In fact you have no evidence, or you would have produced it by now. Your evidence is limited to “because I said so”
SteveC
14 Sep 12 at 4:18 pm
That’s a most flattering caricature of Ramjan in the Honi Soit.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 4:21 pm
Listening to ALPBC Rural today to find that surprise surprise Jo Ludwig has been getting loads of angry tweets about a super trawler, last year he got loads from farmers about shutting down live export.
Only thing he is not the Australian Jo Ludwig, he hails from USA and designs computer games and makes robots in his spare time. He has to keep asking his Aussie friends what the issues are all about. He sounded a nice guy. Can we swap?
Helen Armstrong
14 Sep 12 at 4:22 pm
“No Jarrah, that isn’t true at all. ”
Right, so you agree that just “dialling up” the punishment isn’t, in fact, a solution to the problem. Well done on obliterating your own argument.
“You are asserting that … even if manslaughter carried the death penalty, society would be better off with pool fencing regulations and petty council inspectors fining people for non-compliance.”
Where have I said that? You’re being unusually stupid today. I specifically said inspections would, in my opinion, have more costs than benefits. I specifically said that pool fences are not likely to have more benefits than costs.
“Have you done a CBA – with your absurd assumptions?”
Can’t you read? I spoke about how none had been made. That’s why I couched my POV in terms of uncertainty. You’re the one who’s so gosh-darn sure of yourself, without an actual basis.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 4:22 pm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/productivity-commission-head-gary-banks-to-step-down/story-e6frg906-1226474317657
Gary Banks is stepping down. The Australian Public Service will be poorer as a result…one of the few independent thinkers around. Lets hope he does not get replaced by one of those common beasts in Canberra – the yes man (or woman)…
Skuter
14 Sep 12 at 4:26 pm
The nanny state isn’t just being imposed from above, but enforced from below:
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 4:26 pm
Gee, I wonder why prisoners who had girlfriends on the outside take to rooting blokes on the inside. It’s a mystery that defies common sense….
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 4:32 pm
This is very funny – ‘extensive research’. Feik is the editor of Quarterly Essay.
Lazlo
14 Sep 12 at 4:33 pm
On the other hand, from Nancy today.
Lazlo
14 Sep 12 at 4:39 pm
JC, for you.
Ben Bernanke childhood video.
H/T ron in kelowna
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 4:44 pm
I think you’ll find the direction of the discussion is down to CL (no suprise there) and Dover Beach.
SteveC
14 Sep 12 at 4:46 pm
Good grief.
So Marr didn’t even bother to go check the source material?
I’m labeling “punchgate” the anti slapperslushfundgate.
In contrast to slapperslushfundgate it was immediately jumped on by snarling leftwing journalists only to rapidly find out that it’s based on nothing and day by day we find out how much of nothing that is.
All pushed by rabid, bigoted, anonymous political enemies of Tony Abbott with no evidence at all.
So exactly what the left accused The Australian of doing and the “reason” they gave of why we need a government media censorship board.
- “You can always tell what liberals are up to by what they accuse you of doing.” — Ann Coulter
twostix
14 Sep 12 at 4:52 pm
Oh I assure you it’s standard form. It’s because they are, whatitsname, five letters, starts with C, colloquialism for the pudenda.
Abu Chowdah
14 Sep 12 at 4:56 pm
Steve C – none of that contradicts what I said.
It is almost a separate issue but crimes can be deterred to their utility maximising point by increasing the penalty.
I don’t disagree with the study however. besides murder, most crimes have fairly harsh sentences that are fair in the worst of circumstances.
Since the penalty for manslaughter is all but at a maximum, all that can be done is to actually increase arrests – which virtually don’t happen.
How am I wrong?
I said A. You produced B. I showed that I believe that A + B = C and that both B and C are also correct.
How does that make A incorrect?
I have also been consistent in what I said.
.
14 Sep 12 at 4:58 pm
>“And it’s too dangerous to have children kicking and throwing balls. Last week a toddler was hit by a ball.
Was the toddler seriously, or even mildly injured? No.
Should the kid who kicked the ball at the toddler have been reprimanded for not being more careful? Yes.
Will the mother take more care with the toddler in the school yard next time? Yes.
Will the kids go stir crazy not being able to amuse themselves before being picked up? Yes.
Is the rule stupid? Yes.
brc
14 Sep 12 at 4:59 pm
…and you decided to lecture me about diminishing marginal returns. Fuck me dead.
.
14 Sep 12 at 5:00 pm
Oh noes, break out the foam padding, cotton wool and pillows!
FFS, what a soft bunch of whiny sooks – I’m starting to sound like the Tigger!
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 5:03 pm
I don’t understand the objections. Commenter A made an erroneous statement pertaining to the Catholic religion, commenter CL provided evidence as to why, then commenter monty pops in with another statement that is incorrect so commenter DB puts his considered opinion into the mix and so on and so forth. However what Abu and the mini-brain Stevec are both saying is DB and CL should shut up on the subject but anyone disagreeing with them should keep commenting. Bizarre form of debate.
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 5:03 pm
Honest question Jarrah…do you believe that increasing a penalty has an increased deterrence effect (with respect to diminishing marginal returns) or will you have to “see a study done” to concur?
Maybe you can strike off the relationship between consumer preferences, income and demand until you find a paper on it in the AER.
Well done Jarrah, you’ve graduated from pedantry to reinventing wheels.
.
14 Sep 12 at 5:04 pm
This stitch up is so amazingly shoddy I’m stunned the FauxFacts editors allowed a whiff of it to go in their publications.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 5:04 pm
Gee, I wonder why prisoners who had girlfriends on the outside take to rooting blokes on the inside.
How you get from the above to, it follows that celibate men or women seek their sexual gratification from children even though adult men and women are easily available, is beyond me.
I think you’ll find the direction of the discussion is down to CL (no suprise there) and Dover Beach.
Really? It was first raised by your fellow leftist, Chris, Steve C.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 5:04 pm
said foreskin fred
A favourite saying of my Dad’s. LOL
Helen Armstrong
14 Sep 12 at 5:05 pm
That was in relation to Dot’s post upside 5.00 pm
Helen Armstrong
14 Sep 12 at 5:06 pm
The Dalai Lama has spoken.
“Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics,” he wrote.
Dead Soul
14 Sep 12 at 5:08 pm
“…and you decided to lecture me about diminishing marginal returns.”
Acknowledging the problems with prevention isn’t lecturing you, FFS. You’ve really got to read what I write, instead of scanning for key words and responding unthinkingly.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 5:08 pm
FFS, Sam Maiden makes M0nty look like a fair and balanced reporter:
Let Punch-gate roll on and the Stenographers continue to out themselves.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 5:10 pm
Please refute what I said at 4.58 Jarrah, it applies to your argument as well.
.
14 Sep 12 at 5:11 pm
“do you believe that increasing a penalty has an increased deterrence effect”
Depending on the baseline, the nature of the behaviour we seek to deter, and plenty of other variables, yes. But so what?
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 5:11 pm
Gab, the whatitsnames Abu’s is referring to are SteveC, etc.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 5:15 pm
Good, you haven’t lost your mind.
Now you accuse me of not reading what you wrote.
You can start by reading what I wrote.
1. The above is true.
2. I never offered the above “as a solution”. it was a general comment which is true. Others said deterrence didn’t matter because of emotive arguments. They were wrong and you agree. I merely showed them that it is a no brainer. Steve then obfuscated with arrests and prosecution – which I said politicians in general were too weak of character to pursue – from the outset.
3. I have consistently applied the argument that A + B = C, even if I wasn’t explicit. I have also consistently said the punishment should be at the discretion of the court and that the punishment cannot be practically increased.
Please apologise for saying otherwise.
.
14 Sep 12 at 5:16 pm
Oh, you’re right, Dover. Apologies to Abu. xx
Gab
14 Sep 12 at 5:17 pm
“It’s because they are, whatitsname, five letters, starts with C, colloquialism for the pudenda.”
How the fuck do I keep getting associated with the Catholic/pedophile discussion??
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 5:17 pm
Scratch the ‘is’.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 5:17 pm
“You can start by reading what I wrote.”
That’s rich, coming from you. You still haven’t answered the original question, by the way: why should reaction necessarily be better than prevention?
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 5:19 pm
And now we see that Samantha Maiden didn’t even know, and in fact disputed the known fact that Ramjan had spoken to the SMH in 2004.
Seriously.
I posted that fact here, emailed it to Bolt, who posted it on his blog, along with a link to the 2004 story about a minute after punchgate went front page.
This is why Newspapers are dying – because 90% the people working for them are absolutely fucking useless. MSM “reporters”: less capable than commenter’s on a blog.
Some time in the next decade we might see one of these fuckwits ask why a celebrity criminal lawyer in Sydney “broke” the story about Abbott on Twitter four weeks ago claiming to have “interviewed” Ramjan twice, and they might even ask how it was that Marr came across the “story”.
Did Ramjan approach him, did the solicitor or did somebody else? Did Marr see the 2004 story? Why didn’t Ramjan mention the “punch in 2004 or mention the punch in the “scathing” letters she wrote to the uni newspaper in 1977. Why, why, why…
Fuck you MSM.
twostix
14 Sep 12 at 5:29 pm
That’s absurd Jarrah.
Applying criminal negligence or manslaughter in the first place would have been “reactionary”, with tough maximum penalties at the discretion of the court but legislating new laws every couple of years is “preventative”?
This is where you are confusing yourself. You are speaking in general terms and you took objection to me answering a question on such terms before. You can get a strong disincentive effect by dialing up the penalty. Steve C correctly notes the penalty is worthless if the crime is never prosecuted.
You are saying a disincentive in terms of punishment under the rubric of law and economics doesn’t have a preventative effect – or will always be weaker than a regulation with the same desired effect. The fact that a general negligence law properly applied is more efficient has escaped you as well.
You are really quite confused. I never said it will necessarily have a stronger preventative effect, in fact, quite the opposite. I said, and I have consistently said – you can change the preventative effect by dialing up the punishments metred out – if prosecutions take place in the first instance.
I don’t know how I can possibly make this any more simple for you to understand, or how many times I need to repeat myself.
.
14 Sep 12 at 5:30 pm
Just read today’s media watch dog. Hendo demolishes and I mean absolutely demolishes, Marr.
At the end of the day, the question to be asked if Ramjan is why did she not mention the assault claims in the Honi Soit article that followed the events of the SRC meeting? They were more significant than the urination and brown eye anecdote by far, if true.
The answer is that it’s freshly fabricated. The ALP shows itself to be brazen and desperate.
Oh and Gab, I was referring to our microcephalic collective above, not you….
Abu Chowdah
14 Sep 12 at 5:34 pm
What Does A $4 Trillion Fed Balance Sheet Mean For Gold And Oil
Gold will be priced at least $2250 per ounce by the end of 2013.
WTI Crude oil, could jump to record highs over $150 per barrel.
On the graphs provided by Zerohedge the price hikes of gold and oil is evident after QE1 Nov 2008 and QE2 Nov 2010.
Rudiau
14 Sep 12 at 5:37 pm
The Dalai Lama has spoken.
“Any religion-based answer to the problem of our neglect of inner values can never be universal, and so will be inadequate. What we need today is an approach to ethics which makes no recourse to religion and can be equally acceptable to those with faith and those without: a secular ethics,” he wrote.
Memo to the Dalai Lama:
It is called the natural law tradition in ethics, and it is hardly new.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 5:39 pm
How did this guy get to be loved by the Stenographers?
Did he even write this thing?
Token
14 Sep 12 at 5:43 pm
No wonder this guy is feted by the Left.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 5:47 pm
“No wonder this guy is feted by the Left.”
true, but he’s a harmless old bugger.
candy
14 Sep 12 at 6:20 pm
Many of the MSM journalists still consider themselves an untouchable elite. They haven’t adjusted to the fact that everything they write can now be fact-checked online. Journalists need to be better than they have ever been, but the quality of what we’re getting, for a number of reasons, is now worse than it’s ever been.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 6:21 pm
Potemkin’s Village
Harold… here
Grigory Potemkin
14 Sep 12 at 6:31 pm
d-b, I am reluctant to keep this conversation going, but I can’t believe that you feign ignorance of the fact that some sexually frustrated men will (sometimes) take advantage of what is readily available and able to be manipulated for sex. (See prisons and navies for further details.)
You yourself pointed out that most sexual abuse victims have been post pubescent kids – the fact that a lot have been boys/young men does not necessarily indicate a predominantly homosexual inclination of the perpetrator, but rather an adult male with a immature sexual development, who is prepared to manipulate someone who he perhaps assumes (from memory of his own teenage powerful libido) might not object to sexual activity.
Being free to develop a relationship with a woman, with sex ultimately forming part of it, can be expected to reduce those who might otherwise opportunistically try for sexual outlet with teenagers/young men. (Although, presumably, given the widespread knowledge of the problem there are now significantly fewer times that priests would consider it safe to be alone with teenage boys than used to be the case. It may also be that men being older when entering seminaries may be resulting in priests with more mature sexualities than used to be the case.)
This isn’t rocket science.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 7:02 pm
SFB thinks Homosexuality is a (potentially ) temporary mental disorder and they are not ” born that way ”
I,for the first time, agree with him.
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 7:08 pm
I say “potentially ” temporary because no intervention or treatment results in permanent mental disorder.
Of course.
Well done sfb.(accidental i’m sure)
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 7:15 pm
That’s not quite what I said, jump. Anyone who has read Clive James’ autobiographical books, and learnt even of his recent sex life, would know that some same sex activity in teenage years is far from conclusive evidence of long term homosexual inclination.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 7:20 pm
You’re kidding me, Clive James is a shirt lifter?
DaveF
14 Sep 12 at 7:25 pm
SFB
But
your words.
And what Clive says about himself is neither here nor there.
Are all homosexuals or pedos ” born that way ” or not?
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 7:30 pm
Being free to develop a relationship with a woman, with sex ultimately forming part of it, can be expected to reduce those who might otherwise opportunistically try for sexual outlet with teenagers/young me.
An interesting hypothesis, sfb, except that child sex abuse is found in no greater numbers among the celibate clergy than among the married clergy, while it is found in greater numbers among those who are generally promiscuous.
Yes, you are right, this is not rocket science. Your claim has no legs. BTW, I’m not too fussed either way by a celibate or married clergy.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 7:39 pm
Sorry Bob even John West would reject him.
Splatacrobat
14 Sep 12 at 7:42 pm
Born that way?
p*dos: no.
Some homosexuals: almost certainly. Some parents of adult gay men are completely unsurprised, based on the behaviour/interests of their kid from a very early age.
Some “homosexual”: should more properly be called, in terms of sexual response and potential romantic interests, bisexual. Including the likes of Oscar Wilde, who had kids and seemed to have genuine romantic feelings for his wife (if I recall correctly).
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 7:43 pm
I am dubious of the claim, but need to re-read some stuff on this to clarify.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 7:47 pm
Sfb
So p#edos are mentally fucked up but Poofs are ” born that way “.
So what what/who, in your opinion, is ” natural ” to desire sex with?
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 8:03 pm
No, I said “some”, jump. I don’t really know what proportion.
You’re not showing any signs of genuine engagement with what I am saying,so I can’t be bothered continuing.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:14 pm
I don’t have any confidence in the “born this way” claim. And statements such as “Some parents of adult gay men are completely unsurprised, based on the behaviour/interests of their kid from a very early age” aren’t particularly convincing since a lot can happen during the early development of a child that might end in those children developing same-sex attraction later in life.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 8:29 pm
People here have just spent two hours sucking the d**k of a leftwing troll who tells us he hates this site and everyone on it, but who can’t believe all the adulation he’s getting. He’s an attention whore and comes here only because people keep giving him what he needs.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 8:29 pm
“SFB thinks Homosexuality is a (potentially ) temporary mental disorder”
jumpnmcar, homosexuality is attraction to your own sex. Men without women – like in prisons and navies – who turn to whatever is warm and concave are not ‘homosexual’ in that sense. The same as you are not attracted to your hand just because you masturbate.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 8:34 pm
Tom, you were doing well to ignore me til now, and the day’s proceedings have been much better for it.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:35 pm
You’re a troll. Your only purpose in being here is to oppose everything that is said. You hate this site. You’re a government bumboy. You’re freedom’s executioner. Fuck off.
Tom
14 Sep 12 at 8:42 pm
It must be true. I cannot fathom the change from innately adoring Miranda Kerr (yum) to going down on a dude with good pecs out of choice (barf).
Why would you put yourself through this?
.
14 Sep 12 at 8:44 pm
LOL!
.
14 Sep 12 at 8:45 pm
1. Liberty quote.
2. He was born that way.
.
14 Sep 12 at 8:47 pm
Tom, I agree with SteveC, mOnty, and even Jarrah, quite often. JC has even agreed with me today; sort of.
The fact that many of the rest are so often so spectacularly wrong is part of the attraction.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 8:49 pm
Fine, just so ya know, it’s about desire.
Some gays are celibate, just as some hetro are.
If a person is sexually attracted to anything other than a breeding age person of the opposite sex, they are mentally ill.
Even Tesla was celibate but referred to a pigeon as his wife.
Was he ” born that way ” or mentally ill?
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 8:49 pm
“I don’t have any confidence in the “born this way” claim.”
Sexuality is highly complex. However, I’m yet to meet a homosexual who didn’t feel they were such since forever.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 8:55 pm
I remember how the Left behaved during university elections during the mid 1980s. Liberal candidates had their car tyres slashed. Photocopiers were in short supply, so the Lefties would print their stuff off then pour glue into the machines to stop anyone else printing leaflets. Lefties would roam the campus, tearing down any posters that they hadn’t put up. But if one of theirs was taken down, all hell broke loose.
The student union treasury was raided to fund all their pet causes and activities. Unfortunately for the country, those that learned how to plunder the coffers in their formative years are now running things – and behaving in exactly the same way.
The physical threats against the Libs got so bad that the only people willing to run for student council were beefy military types that could handle themselves if it came to biffo. And of course the biffo was never one on one – it was a pack of lefties attacking a single bloke after dark. There was certainly a bit of violence in my era, but it was all one way. It was mad commies physically attacking anyone to the right of them, which often included moderate Laborites. They’d use any and all means necessary to gain power.
boy on a bike
14 Sep 12 at 8:59 pm
Jarrah
Bullshit.
If you sayin a straight man on a boat for an extended period of time agrees to wank another man off with his asshole is sane, then your definition of sane is wrong.
jumpnmcar
14 Sep 12 at 9:00 pm
for what it’s worth my opinion is that homosexuality is a genetic deviation,
but there’s always heteros who are warped due to sexual abuse in upbringing by same gender abuser,
and those perhaps brought up by homosexual parents in a homosexual environment – that’s gotta be an effect from that, even if its just the child thinking they are homosexual to make their carers pleased with them.
candy
14 Sep 12 at 9:02 pm
“and those perhaps brought up by homosexual parents in a homosexual environment – that’s gotta be an effect from that, even if its just the child thinking they are homosexual to make their carers pleased with them.”
It’s times like these that I’m 95% convinced you’re trolling. Worryingly, there’s that 5% chance…
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 9:05 pm
Until about the 1980s, it was explosively insulting to homosexual controversialists to say that they were ‘born that way.’ They dogmatically insisted they had chosen to be homosexual. There is no scientific evidence for the argument from nature.
Reiterating my earlier points:
More than 80 percent of clerical sexual abuse cases were committed by homosexuals.
Only a small minority of the cases were pedophilia, clinically understood.
Most victims were teen boys abused by homosexuals.
These are the statistics.
We also know that protestant clergy commit the same amount of abuse, that Catholic priests commit no more abuse than any other men, and that the worst sexual abuse of children occurs in atheist state institutions.
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 9:08 pm
Was talking to a guy at lunch the other day and he was saying that he read some study recently saying that the more boys a woman gives birth to the higher the likelihood that the next male will be gay. He said it was something to do with nature altering the balance because in the end one straight guy can father children with many women. No idea if there is any credibility to what he said but it made for good conversation anyway.
Jeremiah
14 Sep 12 at 9:11 pm
People (and leftards),
This “discussion” (for want of better term) of homosexuality is an extremely poor reflection on all concerned.
Stop it, or you’ll go blind.
NOW.
ENOUGH, FFS.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 9:17 pm
d-b, I agree that the “born this way” is over-used these days, but you certainly get cases of religious families who have no desire at all to see their kids grow up gay, but who can see they aren’t “heteronormative” (to use a recent phrase here) from a very early age.
You might not trust a Mormon family who has their story on Huffington Post, but did you miss the Anchoress talking about her gay brother, as well as a childhood friend who was “girlier” than she?
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 9:18 pm
“t’s times like these that I’m 95% convinced you’re trolling. Worryingly, there’s that 5% chance…”
sorry Jarrah I should have used the words genetic variation, rather than genetic deviation, it cames across wrong I see now, sorry.
candy
14 Sep 12 at 9:18 pm
Interesting point Jeremiah. For the sake of discussion, does anyone know other evolutionary reasons why gay has survived as part through the evolutionary process.
I’m not talking about the cultural, ritual sodomy of minors the ancients Greeks turned into a norm. Accept for reducing the breeders, any other reason?
So many societies actively created Eunuchs and created bureaucracies with them. Byzantines, Chinese, Japanese…
Token
14 Sep 12 at 9:21 pm
You fucking idiots.
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 9:22 pm
CL, your link does not support your claim at all.
steve from brisbane
14 Sep 12 at 9:23 pm
“They dogmatically insisted they had chosen to be homosexual.”
Really? I think you’re probably confusing that with an insistence on being able to choose to express their sexuality.
“There is no scientific evidence for the argument from nature.”
Did you even read your link?
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 9:25 pm
A must – and often hilarious – read: Gerard Henderson destroys lying slapper Barbara Ramjan and homosexual extremist David Marr.
http://www.thesydneyinstitute.com.au/media-watch-dog/
C.L.
14 Sep 12 at 9:25 pm
“it cames across wrong I see now, sorry.”
OK, now I’m 98% convinced.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 9:27 pm
Interesting point Jeremiah. For the sake of discussion, does anyone know other evolutionary reasons why gay has survived as part through the evolutionary process.
FFS wake up. The incidence of homosexuality is on par with a range of other variables that occur during developmental processes so suggesting there must be some evolutionary reason why it perseveres is an argument without a cause. Basically, shit happens. Fucking Evol. Psych, one of the most dumbass misleading conceptual structures ever created.
If people say that they were “born that way” then who the fuck is smart enough to peek inside their heads and tell them that was not so? What ideologically driven shit for brains decides he or she knows the real reasons people are of LGBT. How bloody arrogant. Shit, I know, let’s ask some animals. Yes, homosexual mating in the animal kingdom does happen, even down to building nests.
Dead Soul
14 Sep 12 at 9:30 pm
Foreskin Fred the bastard from the bush . We used to recite this during drinking games in the Mess.
Splatacrobat
14 Sep 12 at 9:35 pm
Thanks Dead Soul, I was hoping you’d jump in and get this thread out of the hopeless loop it was crushing into.
Token
14 Sep 12 at 9:35 pm
Another perspective on cultural senstivity to Muslims from the UK Telegraph:
Token
14 Sep 12 at 9:36 pm
That’s a bugger, Splat. But I wouldn’t mind betting they’d chuck Kimberly in amongst the sardines considering the quality of the stuff I’ve been getting from John West lately.
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 9:37 pm
FFS, is there a bigger dickhead (that greek idiot and deddie mckfuckwit excepted) in the entire AFL than taylor “mullet” walker?
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 9:40 pm
In regard to Henderson’s Media Watch Dog piece, I admit to feeling uncomfortable upon reading a detailed account of private correspondence between Henderson and Marr. Yep, he had his reasons, but it still seemed wrong.
dd
14 Sep 12 at 9:41 pm
Hey Rabz, I tried…
Bob Sewell
14 Sep 12 at 9:42 pm
I’ve read various theories, one of which is that it keeps things in working order when there are no chicks around. Hence the prison effect.
dd
14 Sep 12 at 9:42 pm
Oh – and ‘uddo is also excluded from the most obvious dickhead pool, BTW…
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 9:44 pm
Thanks Bobby – I knew others had also tried, but to no avail…
Rabz
14 Sep 12 at 9:45 pm
If people say that they were “born that way” then who the fuck is smart enough to peek inside their heads and tell them that was not so? What ideologically driven shit for brains decides he or she knows the real reasons people are of LGBT.
They just did.
Shit, I know, let’s ask some animals. Yes, homosexual mating in the animal kingdom does happen, even down to building nests.
However, not down to reproduction. Interesting understanding of “mating”, by the by.
The incidence of homosexuality is on par with a range of other variables that occur during developmental processes so suggesting there must be some evolutionary reason why it perseveres is an argument without a cause. Basically, shit happens
Yes, I think that is more or less right, except the implications won’t be agreeable to the LGBTI community. But shit happens, I guess.
dover_beach
14 Sep 12 at 9:45 pm
“What ideologically driven shit for brains decides he or she knows the real reasons people are of LGBT.”
Well, that’s already been answered.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 9:47 pm
Rabz, Bob, sometimes its just fun turning replacing the feelings stick with a hand grenade ok?
Jeremiah
14 Sep 12 at 9:50 pm
This is why you are also seeing more incidences of plagiarism. Peer reviews and subsequent research are copied, reformatted and respun into a form of journalistic Chinese whispers until the facts are about as grainy as a VHS porn tape after its done the rounds at a footy club.
Splatacrobat
14 Sep 12 at 9:52 pm
Anyway I still remember being attracted to girls in kindergarten, didn’t know what to do with them, just knew that I like to chase them around the sandpit!
Jeremiah
14 Sep 12 at 9:53 pm
“except the implications won’t be agreeable to the LGBTI community”
Why would you think that? This is what they’ve been saying all along – they’re part of the natural variation of humans.
Jarrah
14 Sep 12 at 9:55 pm
Some thoughts on the biology of human homosexuality:
http://julianodea.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/is-homosexuality-due-to-sibling.html
Jeremiah, I liked girls in kindergarten too. There was one I planned on marrying.
Julian O'Dea
14 Sep 12 at 9:58 pm
More thoughts on homosexuality:
http://julianodea.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/report-that-maternal-environment.html
Julian O'Dea