Did this bit of audio lose Romney the election? Some people say so, but perhaps putting this on the table is a plus since it sets the issue straight. You have the 53% paying taxes so that the 47% can sponge. If Obama wins this election, this may be the last time income taxpayers will be in the majority in the US and if they are going to change things, now is when it will have to be done. And if ever there was a moment when an incumbent was less deserving of re-election than now, I cannot think when it was.
Yet I must say that Romney said it in a closed room and has not made it a feature of his campaign. And it has been released by Mother Jones which is a particularly left wing rag and it is being spread by the MSM in the belief that it will harm Romney. So the judgment is that it can only hurt the Republican side, but that is still to be seen. I can only think that had it focused group well we would have heard it before so it is not a certain electoral winner. The killer line:
And so my job is not to worry about those people.
Not everything that is true ought to be said. Whether this is a tipping point we shall now no doubt soon see.
So there are people out there actively identifying as being in the mooching 47% who are upset?
Infidel Tiger
18 Sep 12 at 5:29 pm
I took that to mean that he will never get their votes anyway, so he will focus on the votes he can get, on the people he has a chance to convince. He’s explaining campaign strategy, this is normal. The man was not saying he doesn’t care about them as human beings, but no doubt that’s how it will be spun. But so what? He’s not getting their votes anyway.
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 5:34 pm
I can’t see a thing wrong with what he said. Good for him. He’s right too.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 5:35 pm
The ABC were running it on high rotation today; another particularly lefty part of the MSM. They’ll only be happy when the USA is a broken wreck and no productive industry is left standing in any western democracy.
blogstrop
18 Sep 12 at 5:37 pm
I think you should allow Romney respond which he does fabulously well:
Romney Holds Presser On Tapes: Obama’s Plan “Attractive To Those Who Don’t Pay Taxes
These vids have been on you-tube for many weeks before publicised by Mother Jones.
I think they help Romney with moderates and independents
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 5:39 pm
He better not apologise, apology being America’s second favourite activity after shopping……
The mendicants haven’t seen anything in the way of Truth yet, wait until they experience the results of the $17 trill debt after the US$ gets punted as world reserve currency.
Alfonso
18 Sep 12 at 5:41 pm
“You have the 53% paying taxes so that the 47% can sponge.”
Your quote Mr Chester, at best disengenuous, at worst a deliberate falsehood.
See…… http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/romney-faults-those-dependent-on-government/?ref=global-home
and you may read this: “Mr. Romney’s figure of 47 percent comes from the Tax Policy Center, which found that 46.4 percent of households paid no federal income tax in 2011.
But most households did pay payroll taxes. Of the 18.1 percent of households that paid neither income taxes nor payroll taxes, the center found that more than half were elderly and more than a third were not elderly but had income under $20,000. Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center, wrote in a blog post last summer that about half of those were off the rolls because they had low incomes.”
Yep a load of spongers for sure.
Xevram
18 Sep 12 at 5:42 pm
Great effort, spandex.
Rabz
18 Sep 12 at 5:44 pm
I understand he was talking in an voting/strategic sense, the need to reach out to the independents which was interesting but the audio cut off, but he said they will vote on “emotion .. whether they like the guy or not”.
perhaps he’s right there. It’s probably where it will be decided?
shame about the actual quote tho, it doesn’t sound helpful,don’t think i’d like it if it were Tony Abbott who said it.
candy
18 Sep 12 at 5:48 pm
Mr Chester? Is he hallucinating?
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 5:50 pm
About 10% of Americans don’t pay income tax because they are retirees and their retirement income is not high enough to qualify. Are they really all Obama voters? I kind of doubt it. Would’ve interesting to see the stats for states like Florida to see how many Romney’s statement applies to and how they normally vote….
Chris
18 Sep 12 at 5:51 pm
Xervam thinks poor people paying payroll tax is a good thing.
We shouldn’t have any payroll taxes at all.
.
18 Sep 12 at 5:56 pm
Dot, not my quotes, either of them.
I see that night classes are not working or you.
Xevram
18 Sep 12 at 6:10 pm
Ah, the old KAOS open mike trick.
Pity he said this inconvenient truth where the Dems could record it. Same goes here now that Ms Gillard found an excuse to raise the threshhold from $6,000 to $18,200.
Bruce
18 Sep 12 at 6:11 pm
Like that some Dems “cling to their guns and religion”?
I think this video is gold for Romney.
His response is first class as well.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 6:14 pm
I see you are still an illiterate, dishonest fuckhead.
Xervam likes high taxes on the poor and wants more.
.
18 Sep 12 at 6:17 pm
The link to this story at Hot Air has now reached 1184 in comments. You could say that it’s definitely got conservatives fired up.
Alex Pundit
18 Sep 12 at 6:54 pm
What a great post. “Some say this is a politically insensitive way of putting things. But only spongers would think it’s not true.”
The American Right really needs to be completely routed of the Randian influence before they are respectable again.
Steve from Brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 7:44 pm
You are a fucktard liar-steve™.
I actually believe that you must be psychologically disturbed.
You influence no one on this site.
I think you must get your ‘jollies’ by inciting reaction to your invariably ‘contrarian’ (to be kind) and all-too-often sicko comments.
What a sad pathetic contracted mental space must exist between your two ears.
You sad sick puppy.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 7:52 pm
This was a dumb thing to say. Sure, once you take out retirees, spouses of workers, students, the unemployed, and so on, of course you end up with a large number of people who pay no income tax. That doesn’t mean that they’re spongers, nor that they see themselves as spongers, nor that this is the sole determinant of their political views.
It’s simplistic to think that the world divides neatly into upright, clear-headed, moral taxpayers and mooching, sponging, deceitful, selfish non-taxpayers. It’s just an absurdly brittle and binary view of society.
Romney ought to get out more.
dd
18 Sep 12 at 7:55 pm
Randian influence? Whatever you’re smoking, give it up.
dd
18 Sep 12 at 7:57 pm
Which Rand are you blathering on about?
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 8:00 pm
Randian influence… Lol
You idiot Stepford .
“Who knows what happens to the fish.”
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:02 pm
Another excellent outcome from this supposed “gaffe” (msm™) is that Romney can open this campaign up so that his argument for his election is ideological and not merely economic.
He correctly said the 47% are in Obama’s camp and they wouldn’t vote for him but that doesn’t mean he is not going to be a President who works in their interest.
He replied to the process or pathway to victory question at a fundraiser and what he said ib response was completely accurate and appropriate.
I hope his remarks are widely publicised; he has now owned his remarks without apology which is good and I hope he now goes on offense.
He has to attack the entitlement state and the fact that Medicare and Social Security are on track for bankruptcy and that he’s trying to modify them to save them for younger generations of Americans.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 8:11 pm
As usual, dd, you provide a level head around here when all else are losing theirs.
When I heard it the first time, I thought the bit about the Hispanic voters would be more damaging. If he’s having such trouble with them, saying it out loud is not going to help matters. It makes one wonder why he didn’t pick Rubio for VP. Perhaps Rubio knocked him back thinking he was a dead duck? Rubio has to firm for 2016 if those are the numbers.
I agree with dd that R-Money is being too simplistic, and the effect of this would be to insult those who are part of the 47% and still vote GOP. Divisiveness is not what a presidential candidate needs.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:15 pm
So, the consensus is that conservatives and libertarians want MORE of that 47% to pay income taxes? I had thought you were opposed to taxation. But, if you’d like retirees (self-funded and on social security), and children to pay income tax, I’m afraid we’ll have to part ways. I like less taxes for all, not more for veterans and those under 7.
In all seriousness, I doubt it will move the polls much. Certainly those claiming he has lost because of this are hyperventilating. It will get a few days coverage like Obama’s bitter comment and then be dropped. The bigger point, and the reason I’m somewhat dissapointed to see Steve’s take, is that taking about the 47-53% as if two simple groups shows you’re just not serious about policy or changing the structure of entitlement in our society.
Let’s talk detailed policy changes, as Ryan tried to before joining the ticket, not this boringly false depiction of half the population as moochers. Detail and specifics should matter to those who want to change a society, I’m not sure it does to Romney.
Andrew Carr
18 Sep 12 at 8:15 pm
Yea it was really damaging for The Kenyan to tell Joe the Plumber he needed to share the wealth around… Oh hang on it wasn’t. He won.
“Your lot” Monster think this will hurt Romney, Monster whereas there’s no one from your lot that is actually voting for Romney. He’s right.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:19 pm
Whether they’re deadbeats, retirees, students etc., it’s a growing problem.
manalive
18 Sep 12 at 8:20 pm
No Carr, you imbecile. We want to spend less. There are almost 50 million Americans on food stamps now!
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:20 pm
Which lot is that, exactly? If you’re referring to the 47%, you’d be wrong, as dd details.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:22 pm
JC I think febrile Phil wants your attention.
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 8:26 pm
Romney was clearly not referring to retirees, Monst.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:27 pm
Since the love spat with Birdie, the fat oiled up trannie wants everyone’s attention, Gab.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:28 pm
Febbie’s intellectually so beguiling, it must be very difficult to resist such an invitation to robust perspicacious debate JC
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 8:32 pm
I like less taxes for all, not more for veterans and those under 7.
How could Romney have under 7s in mind, for instance? He’s talking about the cohort of actual voters in the up-coming Presidential election. FMD. And then you go on to talk about not being ‘serious’ about policy. Honestly.
dover_beach
18 Sep 12 at 8:33 pm
LOL it’s quite amusing. According to the leftoids, teh majority of women won’t vote for Romney and won’t vote for Abbott. They really are transparently dumb.
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 8:34 pm
They are part of the 47%, JC. 10.3 of that 47, in fact.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:34 pm
That definition sounds like it covers retirees to me. American retirees consume public health care, food stamps, public housing, you-name-it. And mostly vote Republican.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:39 pm
Everyone should bear some of the burden. The tax free thresholds are bad business.
Next we must ban PAYE tax and then we must issue yearly tax statements to show exactly where each tax dollar you paid is spent.
Infidel Tiger
18 Sep 12 at 8:40 pm
On the safe vote 47% for Obumma it’s a bookended support base for the Dems.
The dependency victim-hood hoi polloi and their “virtuous” elite caretakers.
Those uncharitable, self-congratulatory elite and their farcical environmental religion and their state delegated social caring which demonstrate only lazy government voted generosity without sacrifice.
A higher proportion of public sector workers will vote in their own short-term interest as well.
Romney would do well to spell this out too.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 8:44 pm
Fat boy, retirees on a pension don’t consume food stamps. stop talking about shit you don’t understand. We’re talking about the US, not Geelong, you fat headed child.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 8:45 pm
Stop avoiding the issue, Groucho. R-Money is dividing what was supposed to be his grand coalition. He’s conceding vast swathes of it to his opponent.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:48 pm
That definition sounds like it covers retirees to me. American retirees consume public health care, food stamps, public housing, you-name-it. And mostly vote Republican.
Seems to me there is a difference between the 47% that vote Dem and the 47% that “consume public health care, food stamps, public housing, you-name-it”; that while both sets overlap, they are not the same set. I would have thought that if the vast majority of retirees vote Republican, for instance, Romney wasn’t including them in his “47%” of Dem voters that he was suggesting he could not persuade, but that he had to concentrate on the independents, who may or may not consume public health care, food stamps, public housing, … or pay taxes, that might be persuaded to vote Rep.
dover_beach
18 Sep 12 at 8:50 pm
What Romney meant to say is that Obama presides over a fragile coalition of old union thugs, blacks, north eastern Brahmins, gay marriers, Hispanics, welfare deadbeats, Hollywood and media groupies, and special interest victim groups. Ordinary Americans are conspicuously absent.
And what DD said. There are a many reasons why people may pay no taxes at a point in time; just as there are many reasons to loathe Obama. To reduce the equation to taxes is an oddly neo-Marxist position.
Big Jim
18 Sep 12 at 8:51 pm
You’re desperately trying to redefine what Romney said, db, but it doesn’t fit the text of the speech. Romney was quite clear, the 47% was based on income tax payments only.
Yeah, that’s what you’re all trying to do: wish he hadn’t said it.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 8:54 pm
I thought he would make a good president. Now I KNOW he will. I am SO HAPPY to hear this clear and unequivocal truth issuing from a politician.
WhaleHunt Fun
18 Sep 12 at 8:58 pm
This is getting pretty ridiculous for an answer to a process question at a campaign fund-raising event video snippet, m0nty but you know that and are happy to peddle crap.
Most retirees live of investment returns.
They are taxed at 15%.
47% of people (presumably he meant voters) paid no federal income tax does not include retirees who pay tax on their investment income.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 8:59 pm
pay no taxes at a point in time boolcks
the nation is half full of bludging parasites who as Romney pointed out believe they are entitled to my money. Well they can rot in hell.
WhaleHunt Fun
18 Sep 12 at 9:01 pm
Just swap those two sentences around and you’ll have your answer.
dd
18 Sep 12 at 9:07 pm
Government Cash Handouts Now Top Tax Revenues
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 9:15 pm
The other welfare Romney should talk about is corporate welfare particularly to Obumma’s corporate mates like GE and solyndra
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 9:16 pm
I’ve been out.
Do I really have to explain the Rand reference? I can’t believe I have to.
Andrew Sullivan noted the connection (and several other people if you Google it):
Of course, Romney’s rhetoric has more than a passing resemblance to the way disciples of Ayn Rand talk.
IT used “moochers”, Kates used “spongers”. Romney has, intentionally or not, adopted the rhetoric that makes Randian influence so obnoxious.
Here’s someone who makes my point in more detail:
steve from brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 9:22 pm
dd has been the voice of reason, and it reminds me of this article I saw earlier today.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=0
Jarrah
18 Sep 12 at 9:24 pm
And people try to say that the US is the land of the free?
The modern kind of socialism, socialism by coddling ‘victim’ groups was born in the US. Hopefully it will die there too, but not before the money runs out.
Democrats will fight to the death in order to ensure that you can’t use code words to harm african-amenricans, but will happily watch those same african-americans decline into abject poverty, crime and hopelessness. Very sad and very evil.
Rococo Liberal
18 Sep 12 at 9:25 pm
We’ve been relieved.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 9:27 pm
Romney’s statement was quite reasonable. I’m glad he didn’t back away from it.
I have a theory that most democracies approach a point where 51% is financially dependent in some way on the other 49%. These stats just reiterate that. I’d love to see the date across all Western nations.
John Mc
18 Sep 12 at 9:30 pm
Well, yes. Wasn’t sure if you meant Rand Paul or Ayn Rand, SFB. I mean you’ve said you have trouble understanding the purpose of semen and you don’t know what happens to fish when the are caught by fishing boats, so yeah, it’s always best to check what on earth you are talking about.
Gab
18 Sep 12 at 9:32 pm
You’re desperately trying to redefine what Romney said, db,…
No. He begins:
He is obviously referring to soldered-on Dem voters here. He then goes on to attempt to explain why they are solder-on. I needn’t go on.
dover_beach
18 Sep 12 at 9:32 pm
JamesK – given social security encompasses retirement benefits, its not surprising there are huge numbers of americans who receive a social security benefit. Still, one simple way to cut the liability would be to means tests the benefit like is done to the aged pension here, but I doubt that would be well received by the wealthy who will still want their cut even if they have sufficient private savings.
Its not the same 51% supporting or 49% receiving over a lifetime though. Most children would not pay income tax, but eventually become income tax payers when they start work and then when they finally retire they pay little to no tax again.
In Australia for example you can receive quite a significant amount of income as a retiree and pay no income tax (thank Howard for that).
Chris
18 Sep 12 at 9:34 pm
The 10.3 of 47 stat comes from this set of graphs.
m0nty
18 Sep 12 at 9:38 pm
Sure, but at any given moment – effectively, at any given election – 51% votes to give less than they get from the government, because they know it can be sustained by the other 49% (who will give more than they get from the government). It will always centre around that slight majority exercising its leverage. It’s the nature of democracy.
John Mc
18 Sep 12 at 9:40 pm
Romney’s numbers refer to those who pay income tax, not any tax at all or net tax. The percentage of people who pay any tax at all would be much higher (a bit hard to avoid sales tax).
I know welfare like benefits are much lower in the US but I’d be still be a bit surprised if the proportion of people in the US who pay net tax wasn’t actually significantly lower than 49% – especially if you include things like healthcare as a benefit.
Chris
18 Sep 12 at 10:13 pm
Here’s another reason why this won’t hurt Romney: Many of the 47% (or 30%, adjusting for pensioners, etc) don’t think they are bludgers. It’s like expecting the left tail of the IQ bell curve to understand that they are retarded. They just see themselves as more ‘chilled’, or something.
Big Jim
18 Sep 12 at 10:20 pm
If that’s true, then Romney’s fucked. I don’t believe it’s true, though.
It was silly, fatalistic logic. He was equating the percentage of rusted on Obama voters with the percentage of non-taxpayers, which as I said earlier is too simplistic. But as James says, it was just an unguarded answer to an unscripted question. It’s not the big gotcha that Mother Jones and others are making it out to be.
dd
18 Sep 12 at 10:22 pm
LOL.
This is more of a scandal than Obama jetting off to Vegas, virtually laughing off the brutal slaying of an American ambassador?
C.L.
18 Sep 12 at 10:22 pm
Unscripted/unguarded and never meant to leave the venue. It was an answer targeted at a very specific audience who would have loved what he said. I’m sure this sort of thing happens all the time, its just that recordings don’t get leaked. Doesn’t mean it won’t hurt a lot politically though.
Chris
18 Sep 12 at 10:36 pm
Most of the 47% don’t know they are in it. A lot of them are middle to middle upper class recieving various handouts like mortgage relief and some are just low wage earners with kids who have a net tax position being negative with education and healthcare. The other point is that many of that 47% will vote republican just as many of the other will vote democrat. If Romney gets asked I am curious how he will answer who this 47% is. Those who are in the 47% but not aware they are will not be affected unless they find out they are in the 47% in which case they will be a little annoyed. Just reiterating dd’s comment I suppose.
kelly liddle
18 Sep 12 at 10:37 pm
It won’t hurt Romney in the least.
The 47 percent of welfare recipients will vote for the Kenyan bum anyway. Independents favour Romney by a huge margin – up to 15 percent according to CNN last week.
Republicans don’t care.
So that leaves nobody.
C.L.
18 Sep 12 at 10:39 pm
This should get interesting if Mittens ever releases those pesky tax returns.
“Character is revealed not only by what we do and say when others are watching, but also by how we act when no one is looking”
Rex
18 Sep 12 at 10:41 pm
You’ve got to feel sorry for Shitfer from Brisbane’s wife. Poor thing trudges off to work each morning to join the 53% while her mooching 47% of a man husband proudly spends all day on the web informing strangers that he’s an out and proud 47%er.
Infidel Tiger
18 Sep 12 at 10:43 pm
It sure is. Turns out that Mitt really is a conservative. And all this time we’ve been worried he was faggoty flip floppin’ leftist putting on a facade.
This is a great moment.
Infidel Tiger
18 Sep 12 at 10:46 pm
Completely agree with DD (as usual).
I don’t know whether it will hurt Romney that this was leaked (and the tone etc). However it suggests that Romney is stupid, which is a more serious problem.
For instance, my mum, a US citizen is 81 yo, and pays no taxes. Does Romney want her vote?
Another group which pays no tax are unemployed, who will be happy to pay tax if they get a job. Why ignore these people? Many of them would be happy to vote for someone who can deliver jobs.
Boris
18 Sep 12 at 10:47 pm
Love the Breitbart header:
Left-Wing Site Unearths Video of Romney… Talking Like a Conservative.
C.L.
18 Sep 12 at 10:50 pm
The other problem is of course that many people who pay income tax do vote for Obama. Think of all these highly paid ‘green jobs’ etc.
It is not a simplistic zero-sum game.
Boris
18 Sep 12 at 10:51 pm
Not only has Romney unnecessarily insulted a large slab of his potential supporters, he is maintaining the magical belief that the answer to every economic downturn is – less tax for the rich. “Evidence – we don’t need no stinking evidence“:
steve from brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 11:00 pm
Here’s a bit from another article about that Congressional Research Service report:
steve from brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 11:03 pm
I think Glenn Reynolds might be addressing this to Shitfer who appears to be high on Fabulon and Sard Wonder Soap.
Infidel Tiger
18 Sep 12 at 11:04 pm
Great to see Romney not backing off.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 11:07 pm
I suspect a lot of the pensioners will look back to the days when they DID work and DID pay taxes, and realise he’s not talking about them.
perturbed
18 Sep 12 at 11:08 pm
??
Do you think Obumma will get less dd?
An extraordinary upset hammering by Romney will see a 53/47 Romney over Obumma win.
That would see an emphatic electoral college drubbing.
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 11:09 pm
I think the Obumma campaign were forced to release this 47% vid today as they were getting hammered on the forewarning of an attack on embassy strike on 9/11.
I expect this was planned as an October surprise and Obumma has been forced to deploy the ammunition early to deflect the dangerous direction of the news cycle that even his msm soldiers couldn’t ignore.
I think this story will work in Romney’s favour.
He needs to go on ideological offense on entitlement spending control to protect Medicare and Social Security for seniors
JamesK
18 Sep 12 at 11:14 pm
That’s not a bad strategy James. Screw down entitlements in order to help the seniors. The moochers are voting for the Kenyan anyway.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 11:17 pm
Fuck you’re a moron, Stepford. The quality of troll here, from you to fat boy on down is fucking hilarious. You wouldn’t know your nuts from your elbows.
So there are now 60 years of data proving economic laws to be incorrect?
FFS, you economic illiterate.
What is investment? Yep , you don’t know. Investment is savings which by definition is foregone consumption.
What do taxes do? Yep you don’t know.
The retard investment and bring forced consumption.
So the net impact is less investment, less growth and less productivity.
Go away Step. You have no fucking idea. And stop the trolling.
JC
18 Sep 12 at 11:24 pm
Hold the line, people. If I see any wavering there will be hell to pay.
dover_beach
18 Sep 12 at 11:33 pm
Oh OK, IT, but you, Kates and JC feel free to go ahead and call them spongers and moochers anyway, ‘K?
Besides, Reynolds, as with the American Right generally, has gone stupider and stupider. As argued in an article late last year in National Review:
steve from brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 11:37 pm
JC – just real quick: http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/MENU/Published/snap/FILES/Participation/2010Characteristics.pdf (page 18)
18% of people on food stamps are elderly (over 65)
Also a big reason there are so many not paying income tax was the Bush tax cuts that increased the tax free threshold and the earned income tax credit.
On the political impact I think it will be big. One of the long term story lines about Romney, on both sides, centres around what does he really believe. He’s changed so much from when he was Governor, that when something this raw appears I think it will resonate in a negative way amongst not just the “53%” but amongst a much broader audience.
WadeJ
18 Sep 12 at 11:39 pm
Then again you could check this
Denis@Cairns
18 Sep 12 at 11:40 pm
Hilarious.
sfb quotes from a 23 page research document from the Congressional Research Service about the effect of tax cuts on productivity.
24 minutes later (that’s a minute per page, with no time to check any of the references), JC dismisses the post as economic illiteracy.
So which one is really illiterate? Seems unlikely JC actually read the link. Not sure if that would be through inability or indifference.
SteveC
18 Sep 12 at 11:43 pm
By the way, Romney’s last two tax returns showed he paid 15% tax on $42 million of income.
Now there’s someone who won’t take personal responsibility – for paying his fair share of tax.
(Gee, I hope Les is reading. I am doing my best for him.)
steve from brisbane
18 Sep 12 at 11:44 pm
Or this
Denis@Cairns
18 Sep 12 at 11:47 pm
s_dog tweeted this excellent article by NICK GILLESPIE
via Instapundit
.
Rudiau
18 Sep 12 at 11:48 pm
One more links on who this 47% is, and the fact it doesn’t really exist:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2012/09/nontaxpayers-are-overwhelmingly-the-eldery-and-students.html
WadeJ
18 Sep 12 at 11:51 pm
heh, as tempting as it is to take your bait to play oracle, I’ll pass. He might get 47 percent, but that doesn’t mean that those 47 percent are locked in. How much support for each side is soft? I don’t know the answer, but whatever it is, it’s not zero.
On the question of margins, I noticed an interesting thing in the Wisconsin recall. None of the polls got the final result right. They all overestimated the Democratic vote. And the same thing happened in the Queensland election. The polls didn’t predict the size of the sweep.
dd
18 Sep 12 at 11:59 pm
Try and desist from being a clown Wade.
Middle class welfare is bad there too.
60% of households get a least 1 federal hand-out
It was a reply to a process question – which we don’t get to hear – at a campaign fund-raising event illicitly and surreptitiously taken video snippet.
You’re seriously deluded if you think this will help your leftist god/massa get re-elected.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 12:08 am
Rudiau – the entire concept that 47% have not skin in the game is a falsehood. The vast majority of Americans, 70% to 80%, pay taxes over their working life. Many of the 47% are low income retirees, that I’m sure if you asked them, would be pretty adamant that they contributed their fair share over their working life.
Also, if you use the same concept of only counting income taxes, you could say Romney pays less than 1% of his income in taxes. That dastardly tax cheat, what a moocher, what a taker, he’ll never know what hard work is. sarc/
WadeJ
19 Sep 12 at 12:10 am
And it’s 50 days out.
There’s along way top go including the debates.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 12:10 am
Romney responds (Video).
Wow, he sounds like the calm adult in this race.
A world away from the former cocaine addict who partied in Vegas as American public officials were slaughtered in the Middle East.
C.L.
19 Sep 12 at 12:11 am
My God you are thick. Just so incredibly thick.
Please don’t comment on economics. It’s like discussing the latest in bicycles with a salmon.
Infidel Tiger
19 Sep 12 at 12:13 am
Explain that dimwit.
LOL
There’s a 15% income tax on investment income.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 12:13 am
IT, apart from your Texas Ranger outfit that Mum made you and you still keep in the wardrobe, your ecomonic arguments appear to be based around the magic formula of tiny taxes always works, and let people own guns with which to shoot their dinner every day.
Steve from Brisbane
19 Sep 12 at 12:18 am
That’s excellent response from Romney, CL.
And what does Obama tell the American people?
Gab
19 Sep 12 at 12:23 am
There’s a 15% income tax on investment income.
Only once the money is repatriated before that it is 0%. I think Romney might keep some of his money overseas.
kelly liddle
19 Sep 12 at 12:24 am
Romney Honey Badger Sununu: This Is “The Emperor Has No Clothes Moment For The Obama Foreign Policy”
LOL
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 12:32 am
Only if he gets an income return form the investment you mean?
LOL
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 12:36 am
Sununu don’t care.
Sununu don’t give a fuck.
C.L.
19 Sep 12 at 12:39 am
This was a dumb thing to say. Sure, once you take out retirees, spouses of workers, students, the unemployed, and so on, of course you end up with a large number of people who pay no income tax. That doesn’t mean that they’re spongers, nor that they see themselves as spongers, nor that this is the sole determinant of their political views.
It’s simplistic to think that the world divides neatly into upright, clear-headed, moral taxpayers and mooching, sponging, deceitful, selfish non-taxpayers. It’s just an absurdly brittle and binary view of society.
Romney ought to get out more.
Thank you Daddy Dave, you are the a redeeming feature in a thread of pathetic rationalisations. Romney has made a huge error here. What Romney has done is made reference to this ill-defined 47%, which means many people may think, hey is he talking about me being a parasite? Well fuck him.
Great move Mitt. How can some one who is purportedly so smart and so experienced in politics make such stupid comments 50 days out from an election? Staggering.
Dead Soul
19 Sep 12 at 12:51 am
Obama campaign abandons white working-class voters in favor of minorities and the educated.
Obama is so smart.
C.L.
19 Sep 12 at 1:02 am
So JamesK – capital gains tax counts for more than payroll or sales taxes?
WadeJ
19 Sep 12 at 1:20 am
But I think he is. Otherwise you’d never get 47%.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 1:21 am
‘xactly.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 1:23 am
No that’s silly, CL. this implies, for instance, that someone who retires and thus stops paying taxes, will change their vote to Democrats. Just plain silly.
Conversely, professors of political science and greenpeace lawyers may be paying taxes, but will vote Obama.
The falutline is not as straghtforward.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 1:27 am
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/palestinian-comments-get-romney-in-trouble/story-e6frfkui-1226476921174
Another proof of Romney’s real views. Another evidence of his conservatism. Here he is probably on the right track.
It does seem that Mother Jones is a front for Romney campaign.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 1:34 am
Boris,
One thing that these comments will do is to test how genuinely conservative the American electorate is in a Presidential year. Obviously the Republicans in congress, lead by Ryan, strongly believe that they have the majority of voters on their side. Even though they aren’t as specific/honest as they could be with their plans, they’ve been pretty straightforward.
Romney’s ownership of the comments that were caught on tape suggest that his team believe that their base will be big enough to bring him home. I obviously do not believe this, but I don’t think conservatives can say that they didn’t have a conservative enough candidate on the ballot if they lose in November. (They obviously will say that, and they’ll blame the liberal MSM for misleading the American public, but after these comments I don’t think it would be a fair argument.)
WadeJ
19 Sep 12 at 1:47 am
“All right, we have a potentially volatile situation but we sort of live with it, and we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it. We don’t go to war to try and resolve it imminently. On the other hand, I got a call from a former secretary of state. I won’t mention which one it was, but this individual said to me, you know, I think there’s a prospect for a settlement between the Palestinians and the Israelis after the Palestinian elections. I said, “Really?” And, you know, his answer was, “Yes, I think there’s some prospect.” And I didn’t delve into it.”
I love Mittens, I hope he can get in for 4 years so he kick all his unwanted problems “down the field” and “hope that something will happen”
The Cat is now a very interesting place to be.
Lord Rexington
19 Sep 12 at 1:54 am
In an electoral system with non-mandatory voting, galvanising the base is the first priority. If Romney can bring ALL (or 95% of) his base to vote for him, while many disaffected leftists stay home, Romney will win.
From this perspective, the videos may work for him.
However, if he seriously wants to also capture the undecided centre (as he claims in the video), then he may have kicked his own goal.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 2:01 am
oh, Lord, maybe you can spell out what your problem is with Romney’s comment on Palestinians? I think it is quite reasonable.
The problem is that real politic may force Romney to try to restart the ‘peace process’. Which won’t lead anywhere, of course.
Boris
19 Sep 12 at 2:04 am
Nobody who’s whinging about the “47%” comment was ever going to vote for Romney anyway.
It’s pretty awesome that the person responsible for bringing this “secret Romney video” to light was Jimmy Carter’s unemployed non-taxpaying grandson though, innit?
“How’s that hopey-changey thing workin’ out for y’all?”
sdog
19 Sep 12 at 2:27 am
The error in Romney’s thinking – commonly made by those here too – is that the 47% is static. It is a point in time estimate, and some of those will be on welfare for a short period; others for a very long period. Romney has managed to insult those who may have been laid off recently and are actively looking for a new job. The long-term welfare dependency rate in the US is likely to be considerably less than 47%.
Just another reason that Romney is unfit for office.
Johnno
19 Sep 12 at 3:00 am
Oy. Febro is regurgitating stale copypasta straight from HuffPo now and pretending he made it himself.
sdog
19 Sep 12 at 6:19 am
Bambi’s post-convention bounce is gone and according to Gallup he’s back down to…
…47%.
47%. Wait, why does that number sound familiar? Oh.
BOOM.
sdog
19 Sep 12 at 6:25 am
ROTFLMAO
You are some fuckwit, Wade.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 7:26 am
Indeed, sdog.
dover_beach
19 Sep 12 at 7:30 am
So let’s summarise: the MSM/Obumma foot soldiers invented a campaign-ending gaffe for Romney in London and then another campaign-ending gaffe with his press conference on the Cairo embassy’s statement and now the massed Obumma forces of the MSM are trying to fashion a campign-ending gaffe for Romney out of a video of a fundraiser, but doing so not once but twice, first with the 47% excerpt and now with the excerpt of Romney talking about the Palestinians.
LOL
In all four instances Romney spoke the truth – London was shakey as the BBC was excitedly reporting as much; the Cairo embassy statement was incendiary, shameless appeasement which was utterly wrong-headed; 47% of the country is not paying income taxes and those are very unlikely to vote for Romney; and the Palestinians are not looking for real peace with Israel.
From these obviously true statements the MSM – which is little more than a wholly owned subsidiary of the Obumma dirty tricks campaign department – has flooded the airwaves with heart-felt observations that the campaign is over.
LOL
They are such a joke.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 7:52 am
Surely the aim is not to keep increasing the number of people who pay no income tax but to provide an economic environment where that number reduces.
It also doesnt matter the makeup of the 47% (other than they are not all the same as others have said here). The question really becomes, if 47% is acceptable (as it clearly is to the Dems who are so outraged), then is 50% or 55% or 60% also acceptable?
At what point can the US no longer afford this?
dianeh
19 Sep 12 at 7:59 am
Michael Walsh The Corner blog National Review Online:
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 8:00 am
Is this the last time that Steve K is going to troll the Cat with silly posts like this?
It’s not as if Mitt attended a church for 20 years with a preacher who gave sermons like “God Damn America”…
Token
19 Sep 12 at 8:03 am
The same people who pick nits over this probably don’t seem to care the US Federal debt is over sixteen trillion dollars.
Total Government debt in the US is at debt to GDP ratios not seen since WWII.
.
19 Sep 12 at 9:30 am
C’mon, dot, stop trying to distract the MSM.
dover_beach
19 Sep 12 at 9:58 am
God its depressing. I have a weird feeling that the truth is my enemy.
The big sign says: Unlimited Free stuff for Everybody.
Pretty soon we are going to be outnumbered, if not already. Where is a good place to hide my modest savings from the redistributors?
Jannie
19 Sep 12 at 11:30 am
JamesK – answer the fucking question, if it’s not too hard for your dimwitted mind to figure out a response above a 5th grade level
Romney pays a tiny percentage of his overall income in Income Taxes. Most people who don’t pay income taxes pay a higher percentage of their income in payroll taxes than he pays in income taxes. If this 47% number is so important, if Income Taxes are so important why isn’t Mitt’s situation important. And if he didn’t do any paid speeches for a year, he would part of that 47%. Why are capital gains taxes worth more than payroll or sales taxes?
WadeJ
19 Sep 12 at 12:32 pm
If this 47% number is so important,…
It’s not so important, except to Dems who are treating as if it is the number 42.
dover_beach
19 Sep 12 at 1:01 pm
Because his capital gains taxes are worth several thousand people’s payroll and income taxes.
Dumbarse.
.
19 Sep 12 at 1:08 pm
LOL
What stupid fucking moron you are Wade.
Have you evidence for that assertion fucktard?
LOL
Romney’s so called ‘effective’ tax rate is marginally less than 15% which is the rate on investment income.
The reason it’s less is because has earned income (taxed at~40%) as well as the majority investment income (taxed at 15%) but he gives a third of his yearly income to charity which he’s allowed write off against taxable income.
JamesK
19 Sep 12 at 6:18 pm
Romney is one smart bastard:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/332979.php
C.L.
19 Sep 12 at 6:19 pm