It will be over soon

Don’t worry. There are only five more days to go and then we return to regular service. I appreciate there may be one or two of you less interested in the single most important American election in our lifetimes but after their 6th of November (our 7th) it will be over for four years.

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370 Responses to It will be over soon

  1. Lord Tillman

    Anyone who thinks Romney has a chance must answer two questions:

    1. How can he win Ohio when he hasn’t lead in a single poll?

    2. If he doesn’t win Ohio, what states will he pick up that give him an alternative route to victory?

    All this BS about Romney having 310 EVs in the bag is crap unless you have a coherent theory as to why the polls in Ohio (and elsewhere) are systematically wrong.

    PS “lamestream media boo hoo hoo I wet my pants” is not a coherent theory. Sorry.

  2. Token

    Looks like only the Steve from Brisbane “Catholics” are not deserting the Sun King:

    In September, the left and the media were exultant when the Pew poll seemed to show a surge for Obama among Catholic voters. He led by fifteen points, 54-39.

    Today, that bubble has burst completely, and Obama is back down to a two-point lead, 48-46. (Few headlines this time from the mainstream media.)

    Among white Catholics, Romney has jumped to a 14-point lead (54-40) after being tied with Obama in September in the poll.

    …Yet Catholic voters have reason to feel particularly aggrieved, given the Obama administration’s battle with the Catholic church over the mandate in Obamacare that employers cover abortion drugs and contraceptives.

    Those grievances came to the fore particularly sharply in mid-October, after the Vice Presidential debate between incumbent Democrat Joe Biden and Republican challenger Paul Ryan (both Catholics). Ryan brought up the conflict between the administration and the church over Obamacare: “They’re infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.”

  3. Token

    1. How can he win Ohio when he hasn’t lead in a single poll?

    Rasmussen poll has Romney pulling ahead of Obama in Ohio

    Was there a second question?

  4. .

    How can he win Ohio when he hasn’t lead in a single poll?

    This is a lie, fuck off, you have the deft touch of a drunken inbred 7 foot Irish boilermaker performing foetal surgery.

    You are no longer a troll but a bot with no skill or imagination.

  5. Lord Tillman

    Look, this truly is an empiricism free zone.

    There is actual hard scientific evidence that Obama is well ahead in the polls.

    Now if you want to refute that evidence with actual evidence of your own, go ahead.

    But “Obama is a doo-doo head so Romney must win” isn’t an argument. It’s a primal scream.

    Go ahead and bet your money based on your emotions, but those of us in the reality based community will go with the data. Of course, if you had any grasp of reality you wouldn’t be supporting a shape-shifting cyborg like Romney in the first place now would you.

  6. .

    Go ahead and bet your money based on your emotions, but those of us in the reality based community will go with the data.

    You tried to tell us once that taxing people over 50% of their income was good for them and good in aggregate.

    Shove the ROI on Government projects up your reality based arse.

  7. Lord Tillman

    You tried to tell us once that taxing people over 50% of their income was good for them and good in aggregate.

    No you are lying.

  8. .

    No, we were talking about New York.

    You are no longer entertaining. You are shit. You are the Lindsay Lohan of the cat.

  9. Lord Tillman

    Right. So where’s the evidence?

    Let’s either have the evidence or a retraction Mark Hill.

    There’s no lying on this blog.

  10. .

    Tillman

    You know you argued that point, be honest and don’t rely on a typical catallaxy server crash.

  11. Lord Tillman

    You know you argued that point

    What point?

    Wetting your pants isn’t an argument. It’s incontinence, and it’s a source of embarrassment for the pants-wetter and the witnesses alike.

    So pull on a pair of adult diapers and see if you can explain how Romney will win Ohio despite trailing in all the polls.

    GO!!!!

  12. Lord Tillman

    Rasmussen poll has Romney pulling ahead of Obama in Ohio

    Rasmussen is to polling as Breitbart is to journalism.

  13. jupes

    Rasmussen is to polling as Breitbart is to journalism.

    Really, they’re that accurate?

  14. Gab

    see if you can explain how Romney will win Ohio despite trailing in all the polls.

    You’ve said it yourself before, Tillman, “magicpants”.

  15. .

    Your trolling has improved markedly today, but I’m almost sympathetic to Bird recently. He’s finally lost it, I reckon.

  16. C.L.

    You also think that Churchill was a war criminal.

    Certainly he was a war criminal.

    And a moral coward.

  17. C.L.

    Look, this truly is an empiricism free zone.

    As free as the WTC was from insurance, would you say?

  18. JC

    1. How can he win Ohio when he hasn’t lead in a single poll?

    That’s a lie.

  19. .

    I’m sorry. That Lindsay Lohan slur just went too far.

  20. Breitbart tries a “OMG they are worshipping the Obamas as Emperors” troll:

    Report: Florida Crowd Chants ‘Hail Obama’

  21. C.L.

    Maybe interesting…

    Ohio Democrats Already Down 270,000 Votes From 2008.

    According to latest records 230,000 fewer Democrats have voted early in Ohio this year. 40,000 more Republicans have voted early in Ohio this year.

  22. Gab

    I’m pretty sure they were chanting “Heil Obama”.

  23. JC

    So pull on a pair of adult diapers and see if you can explain how Romney will win Ohio despite trailing in all the polls.

    GO!!!!

    Okay, I’ll give it a try.

    Nearly all poll assumptions are based essentially on the voter turnout in 08.

    The Kenyan received a big majority with minorities and the indeps. Not only that but they went voting for him in record numbers.

    The Indeps are breaking to Romney in a big way and voter enthusiasm is hardcore with GOPers.

    The polls are over egging Demolition voter turnout. The Kenyan can’t win without the indeps going so much against him.

    Romney wins Ohio, Penn and the others to get to 310.

  24. Alright – a “OMG they are worshipping Obama like Hitler”.

  25. C.L.

    Las Vegas Review Journal:

    Benghazi blunder: Obama unworthy commander-in-chief.

    These behaviors go far beyond “spin.” They amount to a pack of lies. To return to office a narcissistic amateur who seeks to ride this nation’s economy and international esteem to oblivion, like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb to its target at the end of the movie “Dr. Strangelove,” would be disastrous.

    Candidate Obama said if he couldn’t fix the economy in four years, his would be a one-term presidency.

    Mitt Romney is moral, capable and responsible man. Just this once, it’s time to hold Barack Obama to his word. Maybe we can all do something about that, come Tuesday.

  26. JC

    According to latest records 230,000 fewer Democrats have voted early in Ohio this year. 40,000 more Republicans have voted early in Ohio this year.

    This is telling us three things. The Kenyan enthusiasm is well down from 2008, GOPers are far more agitated to vote and this is now the biggest poll we’ve had in the state so far. It’s not going well for the Kenyan.

  27. JC, you should be down the other end of town distributing cans of RomneyChow to starving New Yorkers. Or offering to iron jeans for residents without electricity. Make yourself useful.

  28. C.L.

    Good to see Illinois bishops ordering clergy to read a letter condemning child murder supporter Barack Obama at Mass this Sunday.

  29. jupes

    Certainly he was a war criminal.

    What a weird thing to say.

    Well if winning wars makes one a war criminal then so was every winner in history.

    War is not sport.

  30. C.L.

    DRUDGE:

    WISC: R 49% O 49%…
    COLO: R 50% O 47%…
    RASMUSSEN THURSDAY: R 49% O 47%…
    IOWA: R 49% O 48%…
    OHIO: R 49% O 46%…

  31. dover_beach

    empiricism free zone….reality based community

    LOL.

  32. Infidel Tiger

    Catholic Bishop: Biden should be refused communion.

    That’s a pretty serious thing for a Cadillac to do isn’t it?

  33. From CL’s link, the bishop writes:

    “Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord,” Jenky added. “They are objectively guilty of grave sin.”

    Gee. “Safe, legal and rare” Abbott, who’s cool with Medicare funding of abortion, wants to watch out he doesn’t get a letter from Pell.

  34. C.L.

    It’s not “weird” at all.

    His own staff thought he was a war criminal and forced the morally hideous old drunk to pull back from incinerating women and children in Germany.

    As for ‘winning’ Europe for freedom, um no. Churchill handed the joint to the worst mass murderers in human history. Namely, the USSR.

  35. JC

    Stepford,

    I’m a visitor, not a resident.

    ——–

    I saw a funny group today. There were a bunch of people holding up “impeach Obama” and “Obama is a criminal” by some LaRouchites on a corner in Madison Ave.

    Was LOL.

  36. Gab

    Does Biden even go to Church? Would he be able to find one in his failing mental state?

  37. I wonder if Tillman read the last time this was visited, when the loopily anti-Semitic Patton got a run.

  38. .

    How was Patton anti semitic? He was anti Catholic if anything.

  39. C.L.

    Catholic Bishop: Biden should be refused communion.

    That’s a pretty serious thing for a Cadillac to do isn’t it?

    Yes. What he’s saying is that Biden is an excommunicate and should under no circumstances approach the sanctuary until he has sincerely repented (sacramentally) the mortal sin of supporting abortion.

    As Abbott is publicly notorious (cf. Roxon, Gillard, Plibersek, Macklin, Ellis, Carlton, Grattan, Coorey, Deveney, Marr) for opposing abortion, he is in good standing. That’s where Joe Biden needs to be.

  40. C.L.

    “I wonder if Tillman will notice my pretty bow this afternoon.”

    – Steve from Brisbane.

  41. C.L.

    The 14-point lead Romney currently enjoys among white Catholics is almost without precedent.

    More on Catholics’ historically unprecedented loathing for Obama.

  42. jupes

    His own staff thought he was a war criminal and forced the morally hideous old drunk to pull back from incinerating women and children in Germany.

    The Germans started total war. Fair enough. You shouldn’t be surprised if they copped some back.

    In war you do what it takes to win. Far better that the enemy die, including civilians, than your own citizens. Bombing the shit out of countries is a good strategy for crushing the will of rogue nations. This is what happened to an even greater extent in Japan. Note that there was no resistance in either Germany or Japan during occupation.

    As MacArthur said “There is no substitute for victory”. Something that modern Generals seem to have forgotten in their rush to kowtow to the human rights lobby.

  43. jupes

    As for ‘winning’ Europe for freedom, um no. Churchill handed the joint to the worst mass murderers in human history. Namely, the USSR.

    I do believe the commies got to Berlin first and I can understand why Churchill didn’t want to continue fighting to liberate the Eastern Europeans.

    After all, they were still fighting the Japs and not declaring war on the USSR doesn’t make him a war criminal.

  44. blogstrop

    Caution: the old WW2 bombing trollery has derailed many a thread previously. It’s too easy to do, and one of the reasons I get very bored with trolls who just don’t know when to stop, so should be stopped.

  45. jupes

    Caution: the old WW2 bombing trollery has derailed many a thread previously.

    Maybe.

    However, in my opinion it is a topic that is largely misunderstood in this day and age. How to fight and win wars is a subject of great interest to me.

    Does that make me a troll?

  46. How was Patton anti semitic?

    Read this article, dot. There are others on the net too. It appears to be readily acknowledged by his descendants, and evidenced in his diary. (His only defence might be general nuttiness.)

  47. Infidel Tiger

    I thought you meant Peter Patton, who I asssume has succumbed to an overdose at a leftist dinner party.

  48. Lord Tillman

    Jupes, what do you think of Operation Keelhaul?

    My view is that it’s difficult to make an omelette if you are squeamish about breaking eggs. If throwing Uncle Joe a bone in the form of some SS men, cossacks and camp followers is the price to be paid for decades of peace in Europe then so be it – done deal.

  49. Peter was too floridly CL catholic-baiting, even for me. For much of the rest of the time, I couldn’t make much sense of him.

  50. Gab

    I’d glady trade you for Patton anyday, SFB.

  51. .

    I thought you meant Patsy, and Gen. Patton was obviously mentally unwell and also brilliant. He also complemented people with insults. He couldn’t help it, he was a mad, crusty old son of a bitch. The only people he was genuinely affectionate to were his immediate family.

    Patton was not an anti semite. I don’t know why you bring this absurd story up.

    Patton was actually made sick by the sight of the place he could not tour the whole thing. He was that overcome with grief, disgust and anger.

    Not the actions of an anti semite.

    from the Jewish virtual library:

    Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others.

    Why you continue with this stupid bullshit is beyond me.

  52. Tillman, CL expressed the view in your absence that the US should have put nutty Patton in charge of “negotiations” to get Stalin out of East Europe, with nuclear weapons at the ready too.

  53. Gab

    Tillman, Tillman, look what CL said! The brute!

  54. Gab

    Clearly you do, SFB. Every time you cry out for Tillman, obviously.

  55. Just keeping him informed of inanities he has missed, Gab.

    dot: Patton won battles and in that sense was a successful General. But he was anti-Semitic beyond the “normal” country club standards of his day, as one of the articles put it.

    The one incident you cite, which CL did last time, does not exactly carry much weight against the over the top things he was writing in his diary in 1945, as well as his earlier behaviour during the war, as was set out in the article I linked to before.

  56. Lord Tillman

    Patton was not an anti semite. I don’t know why you bring this absurd story up.

    But I think I read at Bird’s that the Hebrews took Patton out with a fake car crash. So if he had been an anti-semite it would have been both justified and fore-sighted.

  57. Lord Tillman

    CL expressed the view in your absence that the US should have put nutty Patton in charge of “negotiations” to get Stalin out of East Europe, with nuclear weapons at the ready too

    Yes he is a wingbat isn’t he.

    He says Churchill and FDR were war criminals because they used strategic air power against the Hun, and then he says Patton should have waged a nuclear war in central Europe.

    Can you work it out? I can’t.

    I agree with Gab that the Currency Lad is appalling.

  58. Lord Tillman

    Patton was a brilliant general who was correctly shit-canned as soon as the surrender was agreed.

  59. Gab

    Stop misquoting me, tillman.

  60. jupes

    But I think I read at Bird’s that the Hebrews took Patton out with a fake car crash.

    Wow. I am in awe of such a credible historian.

  61. Of course, the fact that Patton carried pistols, was routinely hyperbolic, crude and self aggrandising in speech and letters, as well as slapping men around for not being manly enough, makes him a sort of folk hero for many here.

  62. jupes

    Of course, the fact that Patton carried pistols, was routinely hyperbolic, crude and self aggrandising in speech and letters, as well as slapping men around for not being manly enough, makes him a sort of folk hero for many here.

    Correct.

  63. lotocoti

    Patton was a brilliant an aggressive general…

    with a lot of armour fighting an enemy with very little armour in good tank country.
    FIFY

  64. By the way, I see the New York Times has a lengthy article on the difficult process of completing the soon to be released 3rd volume of Manchester’s (well, co-written) Churchill biography. (I haven’t read the first books, but Sinclair and IT have praised them here.)

  65. jupes

    Patton was a brilliant an aggressive general…

    Correct.

    with a lot of armour fighting an enemy with very little armour in good tank country.

    You ignorant bastard. Patton was the most feared general by the Nazis.

  66. jupes

    By the way, I see the New York Times has a lengthy article on the difficult process of completing the soon to be released 3rd volume of Manchester’s (well, co-written) Churchill biography.

    Well I wouldn’t trust the NYT on anything.

    All you need to know about Churchill is that when his campaign in the Dardanelles had failed, he resigned as Lord of the Admiralty and rejoined the army so that he could lead a battalion on the Western front.

  67. C.L.

    Churchill’s own staff thought he was a war criminal.

    The old buffoon was told to stop burning women and children in Dresden and then proceeded to blame his officers. Not long after, in cooperation with the mentally dotty Roosevelt, he gave Poland to the Soviets – which was a fantastic end to a war begun to liberate Poland from tyranny.

    Eventually, in March 1945, Churchill admitted to being a terrorist.

    It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land… The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing. I am of the opinion that military objectives must henceforward be more strictly studied in our own interests than that of the enemy.

    The Foreign Secretary has spoken to me on this subject, and I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction, however impressive.

    Acts of terror = terrorist.*

    * Barack Obama

  68. C.L.

    All you need to know about Churchill is that when his campaign in the Dardanelles had failed, he resigned as Lord of the Admiralty and rejoined the army so that he could lead a battalion on the Western front.

    He should have come to Australia and apologised.

    But of course he would have been shot.

    …the US should have put Patton in charge of “negotiations” to get Stalin out of East Europe, with nuclear weapons at the ready too.

    Right.

  69. Lord Tillman

    he resigned as Lord of the Admiralty

    I thought he got canned.

  70. Well I wouldn’t trust the NYT on anything.

    Not even an article on how a book was written over 20 years (or something like that)?

    No wonder so many people here are ill informed, when they won’t read a major mainstream media outlet even on a non political topic.

  71. jupes

    The Foreign Secretary has spoken to me on this subject, and I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction, however impressive.

    Wow.

    After all the words Churchill has written, that is all you’ve got? A clumsy discription of a quite justifiable bombing campaign?

    In your opinion was the nuking of Japan a terrorist act? Was the fire bombing of Tokyo a war crime?

    Serious wars are won by taking serious action. Far better to win than to have an exit strategy.

  72. JamesK

    An 8 year Romney presidency will give you lotsa time to mouth-foam Les.

    Something to look forward to, no?

  73. jupes

    He should have come to Australia and apologised.

    Crap. Many more Brits died in the Dardenelles than Aussies. The Dardenelles campaign was good strategy, badly executed. It was designed to break the stalemate of the Western Front.

  74. jupes

    Not even an article on how a book was written over 20 years (or something like that)?

    No.

    NYT – credibility zero.

  75. Lord Tillman

    In your opinion was the nuking of Japan a terrorist act? Was the fire bombing of Tokyo a war crime?

    In the Currency Lad’s view, yes.

    He gets a bit Cindy Sheehan / Code Pink at times.

    You should hear him go off about how KSM couldn’t get a fair trial in the US because the federal judges there run “show trials”.

  76. Lord Tillman

    Jupes, Churchill was canned following the Dardanelles. He begged to keep his job.

    But yes, he did head straight for the western front.

    Of course part of the reason he got canned from the admiralty was because he kept leaving the navy to visit the WF to give sundry advice on artillery placements, cavalry manoeuvres, hand to hand combat etc.

  77. C.L.

    Some say the main reason Stalin was so afraid of invasion was that St. Basil’s wasn’t insured.

  78. Lord Tillman

    NYT – credibility zero

    I used to trust the NYT until an anonymous internet commenter told me it had no credibility.

  79. Jeremiah

    There is some seriously nutty WWII crap going on above…

  80. C.L.

    …federal judges there run “show trials”…

    No no. Communist, terrorist liberator, Black Panther enabler and Fast & Furious murderer, the soon to be impeached Eric Holder – and his boss, ‘law professor’ Barack “Benghazi Benedict Arnold” Obama – wanted to run a show trial for the actual mastermind of 9/11, Khaled Sheik Mohammed. They also wanted Miranda Rights for terrorists – like the ones who killed that ambassador before Obama went to Vegas for a party.

    Then they called it off and admitted Bush was right all along.

  81. Dead Soul

    He couldn’t help it, he was a mad, crusty old son of a bitch. The only people he was genuinely affectionate to were his immediate family.

    Hmmm, so was Rickover who was the major figure in US submarine development and strategy. Hated by all and sundry, incredibly sarcastic and demeaning of others. Yet his wife thought completely otherwise. Strange paradox akin to what you say about Patton. But Rickover was brilliant.

  82. Jeremiah

    FACT: Strategic bombing was a brand new concept in WWII and its true effect was unknown.

    FACT: The Germans started the mass bombing of cities during the blitz, they accidentally bombed civilian targets and from then it was an eye for an eye.

    FACT: Bomber Harris was the main proponent of area bombing.

    FACT: Bomber Command was the only portion of the military that did NOT receive a campaign medal for WWII. Churchill also failed to mention them in his VE speach.

    FACT: Churchill always hated the reds and it was FDR that continually undermined Churchill during negotiations with Stalin. It was Churchill that had the stomach to express his dismay at the Iron Curtain that had fallen over Europe after WWII.

    Now let this rest

  83. Lord Tillman

    They also wanted Miranda Rights for terrorists

    No you are lying.

    Bin Laden wasn’t read his rights was he.

  84. jupes

    Bin Laden wasn’t read his rights was he.

    No.

    That was one of the few moments of clarity for the Obama administration.

    Don’t forget though, that they wanted to try KSM in a civil court. What were they thinking?

  85. Mk50 of Brisbane

    FACT: Strategic bombing was a brand new concept in WWII and its true effect was unknown.

    Partially true. The Germans started strategic bombing with dirigibles as early as 31 may 1915 and by 31 May 1916 550 British civilians had been killed. They switched to daylight attacks with strategic bombers from 25 May 1917 with Operation Türkenkreuz opened with Kagohl 3’s 23-strong raid on Folkstone and Shorncliffe. The british also got into the game in 1916.

    FACT: The Germans started the mass bombing of cities during the blitz, they accidentally bombed civilian targets and from then it was an eye for an eye.

    Incorrect. Warsaw was indiscriminately bombed very deliberately indeed in 1939, and Rotterdam in 1940. There was absolutely nothing accidental about either.

    FACT: Bomber Harris was the main proponent of area bombing.

    Not quite. He was echoing Trenchard and Douhet. Area boming was all the technology actually permitted until OBOE came on-line: then the Master Bombers from Pathfinder Force were able to use three main tactics: Musical Parramatta (using navigation aids such as H2S radar or Oboe radio signals to drop the markers), Musical Wanganui (Skymarking using Oboe or H2S and releasing the markers over the unseen target) and Musical Newhaven (flares dropped above the target area to light it up sufficiently for a visual marking by the Pathfinder aircraft).OBOE was first used effectively from 23 March 1943 when the Ruhr Campaign opened. And flattening the arsenal of the National Socialists actually demanded area bombing of those cities (look at the postwar USSBS survey of Wuppertal to get the point, you had to destroy the city to eliminate its weapons making capacity due to the plethora of small manufacturing firms)

    FACT: Bomber Command was the only portion of the military that did NOT receive a campaign medal for WWII. Churchill also failed to mention them in his VE speach.

    True – and that was a shameful act on Churchill’s part.

    FACT: Churchill always hated the reds and it was FDR that continually undermined Churchill during negotiations with Stalin. It was Churchill that had the stomach to express his dismay at the Iron Curtain that had fallen over Europe after WWII.

    Also true.

  86. m0nty

    No wonder you lot stopped talking much about the OP after Jarrah quoted 538 at 2:32pm, since Silver demolished most of your feeble talking points.

  87. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Tillers:

    Patton was a brilliant general who was correctly shit-canned as soon as the surrender was agreed.

    You idiot, Patton was still GOC Third Army when mortally injured in a car crash on 9 Dec 45.

  88. Rabz

    Oh FFS, not another interminable debate about the single most significant conflict in human history!?!?!

  89. .

    The one incident you cite, which CL did last time, does not exactly carry much weight against the over the top things he was writing in his diary in 1945, as well as his earlier behaviour during the war, as was set out in the article I linked to before.

    IT WAS WRITTEN BY A JEWISH ADVOCACY GROUP. THEY LIKE THE CRUSTY OLD BASTARD. YOU DON’T LIKE PATTON BECAUSE YOU ARE A SHORT SHORT, CARDIGAN WEARING PANSY.

  90. Mk50 of Brisbane

    One does not debate with twits like Tillers, Rabz. You just mock their pretentiousness when they spout on about historical matters they have no real knowledge of..

  91. Jeremiah

    Cheers Mk50, I was writing that from memory. Your input is appreciated as always!

  92. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Dot: YOU DON’T LIKE PATTON BECAUSE YOU ARE A SHORT-DICKED SHORT SHIRTLIFTING, CARDIGAN WEARING PANSY.

    FTFY!!

    (Could not resist!)

  93. Rabz

    Warsaw was indiscriminately bombed very deliberately indeed in 1939, and Rotterdam in 1940. There was absolutely nothing accidental about either.

    Don’t forget Guernica – 1937. A testing ground for the Condor Legion.

  94. ~walks up, sees hopelessly derailed train blocking the tracks, turns around~

  95. Lord Tillman

    You idiot, Patton was still GOC Third Army when mortally injured in a car crash on 9 Dec 45

    Yes, he was shit-canned.

    If they wanted him in the war he would have been in the pacific instead of patrolling Bavaria, you numbskull.

    So like I said he was shit-canned. Not offered a frontline position. Career terminated mid-war.

  96. Lord Tillman

    You idiot, Patton was still GOC Third Army when mortally injured in a car crash on 9 Dec 45

    Actually, that is factually incorrect.

    Patton was relieved of command of the Third by EIsenhower prior to his death.

    So you are simply wrong on the facts. I was 100% unambiguously correct. Patton had been shit-canned.

    I wish someone would relieve you of command, you ignoramus. Of that’s right – you don’t command anything, do you, Blimp?

  97. .

    As were Bradley and Eisenhower?

  98. Lord Tillman

    Patton was sacked by Eisenhower.

    Relieved of command.

    Comprende?

  99. .

    So what? Ridgway and Macarthur both thought Eisenhower was an idiot.

  100. Token

    Incorrect. Warsaw was indiscriminately bombed very deliberately indeed in 1939, and Rotterdam in 1940. There was absolutely nothing accidental about either.

    The Germans tested strategy bombing on Guernica during the Spanish civil war.
    No accident. As deliberate as the blitzkreig.

  101. Token

    I see Rabz knows about Guernica, I tips me hat.

    It is critical to understand what the Germans, Russians and Italians were doing in Spain in the mid 30’s to if you want to know how WWII evolved.

  102. JamesK

    No you are lying.

    Bin Laden wasn’t read his rights was he.

    Oaama was hoist by Obama’s petard.

    He couldn’t be renditioned and water up his nose to get good intel and then sent to Guantanamo.

    So as a very poor second they had to kill him on the spot, no qiestions asked.

    Fucking intel disaster.

    Obumma needs to be hung, drawn and quartered.

  103. JamesK

    Osama was hoist by Obama’s petard

  104. dd

    CL is right about Churchill.
    It’s awesome that he was able to recognize the threat and lead Britain through the war, but he was also a malicious ratbag. Yes, he did a fantastic job, but it is wrong to lionise him and try to justify all his decisions as good decisions, or as fitting into a coherent, rational strategy to defeat Hitler.

    Anyway, unlike our misty-eyed Churchill-worshippers of today, the British people of the time saw him clearly and understood him for what he was. They turfed him out of office once the war finished. That wasn’t some incomprehensible and unfair twist of fate. It was exactly the right outcome.

  105. steve from brisbane

    War criminal? dd?

  106. JamesK

    It was exactly the right outcome.

    Really?

    It gave the pomsa Labour socialist democratic government, the NHS, then Labour stole their liberty, self-respect and nobility.

    Churchill was a flawed man but a great man nevertheless.

  107. dd

    War criminal? dd?

    Yeah, well as you say, CL would have had him tried as a war criminal. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but I agree with him about Churchill’s character and that some of his decisions were despicable. There’s definitely a case that the Dresden bombing was a war crime. It was certainly sadistic.

    (btw if anyone pushes the revisionist lie that it served some obscure military purpose, I’m not playing… we’ve already argued that one out and the revisionists lose)

  108. dd

    Churchill was a flawed man but a great man nevertheless.

    Sure. no question. Some people can’t handle that apparent contradiction. The thing is though, I would have said it the other way around. To wit:
    “Churchill was a great man, but a flawed man nevertheless.”

    It gave the pomsa Labour socialist democratic government,

    the rise of socialism and social democrats in Britain is a bigger historical question. The political alternative to Churchill notwithstanding, the British people correctly rejected Churchill the individual as an ongoing peacetime leader.

  109. .

    You make a good point but I think you come on a little too strongly. Being callous in wartime is not in itself a sin.

  110. JamesK

    FMD.

    Spare us yet another Dresden conspiracy thread.

    Every allied warrior and the people who waited for them at home supported that aggression.

    I’m tired of the precious grandstanding on the issue now.

    Leftists had control in the governments and universities of the US, Europe and Britain went about rewriting history in their precious Critical Theorist terms.

    It’s not difficult.

  111. the Dresden bombing […] was certainly sadistic.

    In Conversations with Max, by S.N. Behrman (London, 1960), p. 85, the author notes that Sir Max’s knighthood might have been delayed by his various severe criticisms of the royal family over the years, and suggests to him:

    it was a wonder he had been knighted at all; in fact, I wasn’t sure that his residence in Italy was entirely voluntary.
    Max chuckled; his shoulders shook. “You must remember,” he said quietly, “it was British royalty.”
    “That is so,” Miss Jungmannn [who later married Sir Max] said, looking at me seriously. There are no people like the English. I am a foreigner—I am German and I can say it. I had a job in the Foreign Office during the last war—i believe I told you. I shall never forget the day Dresden was bombed. i can’t tell you the pain that was felt in the Foreign Office. Pain! It was a massive bombing, you remember. it had to be done, but no one was happy about it. Just the contrary. I’ll never forget the atmosphere in the Foreign Office that day, overcast with gloom. That could happen only in England. Only the English are like that!

  112. steve from brisbane

    By the way, shouty dot, you apparently refuse to believe the evidence of Patton’s own diary and letters as to his deep anti semitism. The guy’s grandson. acknowledges it. Strange u can’t.

  113. My previous post referred to Sir Max Beerbohm (if anyone wondered). His second wife, Elisabeth Jungmann (later Lady Beerbohm) was a German Jewess who worked for the Political Intelligence Department, a section of the British Home Office, in WWII.

  114. Dead Soul

    By the way, shouty dot, you apparently refuse to believe the evidence of Patton’s own diary and letters as to his deep anti semitism..

    So what. Anti-semitism was rife in the West. My mother told me that when they first heard rumours about the Holocaust here in Aus she heard people saying: thank god someone is doing it. ……. You do know that the USA in the great wisdom of Eugenicists was treating Jews with complete contempt in the 1920’s? That many citizens of many countries were quite happy to help in the extermination of the Jews? How ironic that it was Jews who turned out to the brainy ones and that a homosexual, Alan Turing, made one of the most important single contributions in WW2(Bletchley Park). History is instructive, it reminds us, as if we needed reminding, of how fucking stupid and violent we can be. Pinker is right, we are getting better. Perhaps too slowly.

  115. steve from brisbane

    DS, if you read about Patton and his anti semitism at the end of the war, which I don’t think you have, you would see that it got him into trouble. As I said before, even by the standards of the day, his attitude appears extreme and it was recognized as such by his superior.

    This is worth noting as a relevant matter when assessing him as a character in history.

  116. JamesK

    Biden: ‘There’s Never Been A Day In The Last Four Years I’ve Been Proud To Be His Vice President’

    Video of the man who never stops giving at a campaign event.

    He is hardly ever reported.

    Thank God the world was spared Sarah Palin.

  117. brc

    What? Another Patton/Churchil/Dresden thread?

    FMD you people need help.

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