Royal Commission into Child Abuse

Today I have announced that I will be recommending to the Governor-General the establishment of a Royal Commission into institutional responses to instances and allegations of child sexual abuse in Australia.

The allegations that have come to light recently about child sexual abuse have been heartbreaking.

These are insidious, evil acts to which no child should be subject.

The individuals concerned deserve the most thorough of investigations into the wrongs that have been committed against them.

They deserve to have their voices heard and their claims investigated.

I believe a Royal Commission is the best way to do this.

The proposed terms of reference and proposed Commissioner will be submitted to the Governor?General in due course, pursuant to the Royal Commissions Act 1902.

I will speak with relevant Premiers and Chief Ministers in coming days to discuss how the Royal Commission should relate to any current inquiries into similar matters currently proposed or underway in their jurisdictions. Discussions will also take place with victims’ groups, religious leaders, and community organisations.

The Attorney-General and the Minister for Families will co-ordinate this work on behalf of the Government in coming weeks.

Further announcements, including the proposed Commissioner and detailed terms of reference, will be made in coming weeks.

I commend the victims involved for having the courage to speak out.

I believe we must do everything we can to make sure that what has happened in the past is never allowed to happen again.

As soon as it comes up I will be posting the transcript of the ABC The Drum that is currently being shown. The level of anti-Catholic bigotry being displayed is simply appalling. While criminal behaviour cannot and should not be condoned, this Royal Commission has started off on the wrong foot. Even before the terms have been announced.

Update I: Liberal Press Release here.

As a community we must have zero tolerance for the sexual abuse of children.
Wherever abuse has occurred it must be tackled and it must be tackled vigorously, openly and transparently.
It’s clear that for a long period there was insufficient awareness and insufficient vigilance when it came to predatory behaviour by people in positions of authority over children.
A lot of terrible things have been done, and a lot of people have suffered deeply.
For these reasons, if the government were to propose a Royal Commission to investigate the sexual abuse of children, it is something the Coalition would be prepared to support.
Any investigation must be wide-ranging, must consider any evidence of the abuse of children in Australia, and should not be limited to the examination of any one institution. It must include all organisations, government and non-government, where there is evidence of sexual abuse.
Victims must be allowed to heal, and perpetrators must be brought to justice.

Update II: The Drum video is here – watch from 3:40

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300 Responses to Royal Commission into Child Abuse

  1. Lysander Spooner

    Let the anti Catholic bashing begin……oh hang on…it did a while ago. This is just the institutionalisation of it. Surely, the criminals have to be brought to justice (if any are still alive) but a Royal Commission? Really?

    How about a Royal Commission into unions? AWU anyone?

  2. m0nty

    I watched that Drum exchange. It got rather nasty.

    Rhys Muldoon is not an elected official, I will remind the court. Just because he says something on the Drum – like calling for removal of tax-free status of the Catholic Church – doesn’t mean it will be included in the RC ToR.

  3. Gab

    (Commented elsewhere before I realised this thread was available).

    The enquiry is all part of the plan to smear Abbott and Catholicism.

    They will certainly make political hay out of it for sure. I wonder why they didn’t consider a RC back in 2007 or 2008 or 2009 or 2010 or 2011. But as an election year is near, well why not, says mcternan.

    I just hope it is a RC and not merely a witch hunt that will be used to tar all catholics with the same brush as someone has already alluded.

    This announcement:

    PRIME Minister Julia Gillard has agreed to a royal commission into institutional responses to allegations of child abuse in Australia.

    hopefully means all institutions dealing with children.

  4. Amfortas

    The anti-Catholic hysteria has already called for the Pope’s resignation and, in Britain, his prosecution. ( I understand the Aussie ‘Human Right’ Lawyer fellow was the one calling).

    But what everyone seems to forget is that since a very long time the responsibility for children’s welfare has rested with the States. It is States Governments that have authorised and overseen all children’s homes, care homes what have you, even when delegated to various Churches.

    How about some Premier Heads? At least some senior civil servant heads.

  5. SteveC

    Excellent news.
    Catholic bashing on blogs is unfortunate but I doubt will interfere with the execution of the Royal Commission. Although I am now an atheist, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to Catholic (St Josephs’s and Christian Brothers) schools. I have no doubt child abuse is NOT endemic in Catholic institutions. A Royal Commission is an execllent way to clear the air and separate the abusers from the vast majority of Catholics who are no doubt appalled by the steady stream of news of abuse.

  6. hopefully means all institutions dealing with children.

    Hahahahahhaha! Good one, Gab.

    Oh, wait, you weren’t joking?

  7. Pickles

    Run The Split all over again. Worked a treat last time. Masterstroke.

  8. Luke

    And here we have the end of Tony Abbott. He will be slimed with every dirty detail by every Labor politician, leftist academic and journalist in Australia. …And all just in time for the next Federal election.

    So the narrative moves from ‘war on women’ to catholic bashing.

  9. Jannie

    First they came for the Catholics.

    The purpose of this is to slime Tony Abbott as a paedophile during the next election.

  10. Jannie

    There’s a moderator now?

    [No – you used a banned word and went into auto-moderation. Sinc]

  11. Sinclair Davidson

    I notice the The Drum aren’t displaying live tweets.

  12. Gab

    Catholic bashing has been alive and well at the ABC for quite some time. Well, not when Keating was in power, not back then and not so much when Howard was in power although his going to church got a bit of stick. Rudd going to church every Sunday and holding a press conference straight after never got a derisive mention. Hmmm…seems it’s only been in the last few years…

  13. Jannie

    There is a moderator looking at my 6.33 comment, but not one looking at my 6.34 comment.

    Looking for key words? wuwt?

  14. m0nty

    Quick transcription of the more fiery exchange on the Drum, from my Foxtel IQ.

    Rhys Muldoon: I find it fascinating that you are talking about water, because what you are talking about is watering down this royal commission. Ultimately it is, because if that scope is so broad, you’re not going for like… we know there’s a problem in the Catholic Church, why can’t we go after the Catholic Church? I know that it’s difficult and tricky and you want bipartisan support, but why be afraid of saying it? I don’t understand.

    Steve Kanaan asks Sue Cato about why wasn’t the petition she signed was about the clergy.

    Sue Cato: Because quite frankly, it was the smart way to get an outcome. And the reality is, I don’t care what you two are saying, there are instances outside the Church, and to specifically focus on the Catholic Church…

    Rhys: I am not anti-Catholic, I have a lot of sympathy for Catholicism. I just say if there’s a problem, it’s clearly there, there’s been a cover up, why can’t we just go for that to start off with?

    Sue: I tell you what, clearly you should be a commissioner, because you know more about it than anyone else in the country.

    Rhys: Oh really? Well, the Age says that 1 in 15 Catholic priests are pedophiles, I would have thought something should be done.

    Joe Aston: Rhys, you shouldn’t read the Age so often…

    Rhys: Careful, it’s a stablemate…

  15. Gab

    Jannie if you’re going to use the p word, try paed0phile or pa3dophile.

  16. val majkus

    And a Royal Commission into the Heiner Affair
    You can download the Rofe QC audit from this site http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/goss/
    the password is also there
    judge for yourself the substance or otherwise of the alleged Heiner cover-up as set out in the Audit. As the site states

    ‘You may now freely judge what certain public officials who worked and/or still work in public office (in all arms of government in Queensland and Federally) did and didn’t do at particular times when confronted with these matters of alleged serious wrongdoing involving obstruction of justice.’

    It is inconceivable that Commissioner Carmody has not recused himself – read why at the link

  17. Matt

    I think a Royal Commission into alleged institutional cover-ups of child sexual abuse is probably on balance a good thing – as opposed to incidents of abuse themselves, which is a straightforward criminal matter.

    This will free up all the anti-Catholic bigots to crawl out of the woodwork however, cheered on in the comments by the same types who would scream if the same guilt-by-association was applied to Muslims.

    Although I am now an atheist, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to Catholic (St Josephs’s and Christian Brothers) schools. I have no doubt child abuse is NOT endemic in Catholic institutions.

    Good for you. I am also an ex-Catholic atheist who attended Catholic day schools, was an altar boy who served at altar for a dozen or so priests and a member of several Catholic youth groups. I never saw any evidence of child sexual abuse whatsoever nor heard any rumours of such abuse. Maybe I was just lucky, but I doubt it. Still, Catholic-bashing is fun, isn’t it.

  18. Jannie

    Gab please enlighten me, how can a word be banned. Did it do something wrong?

  19. m0nty

    Although I am now an atheist, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to Catholic (St Josephs’s and Christian Brothers) schools. I have no doubt child abuse is NOT endemic in Catholic institutions

    Nevertheless, there have been multiple alleged perpetrators at St Joseph’s and the Christian Brothers.

  20. Gab

    Take it up with Sinclair, Jannie.

  21. Sinclair Davidson

    there have been multiple alleged perpetrators at St Joseph’s and the Christian Brothers.

    Indeed – that is a matter for the police.

  22. Annabelle

    I wonder of the RC will consider female genital mutilation by Muslims.

  23. Nic

    Oh really? Well, the Age says that

    Amazing.

  24. m0nty

    Indeed – that is a matter for the police.

    Yes, but institutional intransigence (to put it mildly) by superiors of the alleged perpetrators is a valid subject of a royal commission.

  25. tbh

    A good start would be investigating the institutional cover ups with boarding colleges in WA, like the one in Katanning where there were instances of abuse going back 10-15 years or more. A bloke I went to high school with in the 1980’s was one of the victims.

    I don’t believe it was run by the Catholic Church.

  26. JC

    I don’t quite get the chatter. Are the people requesting a Royal Commission suggesting there is new stuff that’s come out. If it has what is it? Are there still catholic priests still on the loose sexually molesting kids.

    I dunno, so someone can help me, but this sounds like a leftwing swarming attack and an old catholic bash. Somehow I think it’s a way of trying to get Abbott. I’m guessing that the next accusation to come from the limey in the Lying Slapper’s office is that he’s a pedophile.

    Fat Boy, perhaps you can help as you seem quite excited about it. What’s new?

  27. Jannie

    I never saw any evidence of child sexual abuse whatsoever nor heard any rumours of such abuse. Maybe I was just lucky, but I doubt it.

    Matt, I spent 10 years in various Catholic institutions, and your comment applies exactly.

    One thing they they did teach us was not to take shit from perverts. From the age of 11, I was confident enough to protect myself: fight, run or shout for help.

  28. candy

    Blind freddie can see it’s McTernan/Gillard effort to get Tony Abbott.
    First the misogny speech to maximise the female vote, and this to encourage the Catholic haters amongst us.

    very divisive PM we have, she does not bring Aussies together at all.

  29. JC

    there have been multiple alleged perpetrators at St Joseph’s and the Christian Brothers.

    Indeed – that is a matter for the police.

    But is this new?

  30. Old woman of the north

    Now I would like to see a similar Royal Commission into the corruption in the Unions

  31. tbh

    It certainly has a sniff of Abbott bashing about it. He needs to get on the front foot about it I think.

  32. Gab

    I’m guessing that the next accusation to come from the limey in the Lying Slapper’s office is that he’s a pedophile.

    Julian Burnside is way ahead of him, having called Abbott a paed0phile in tweet already.

    [Added link. Sinc]

  33. tbh

    Julian Burnside is way ahead of him, having called Abbott a paed0phile in tweet already.

    Gab, please tell me you’re joking.

  34. candy

    “It certainly has a sniff of Abbott bashing about it. He needs to get on the front foot about it I think.”

    honestly, if Mr Abbott shrinks and runs away again from Gillard/McTernan, he may as well give the job up to someone else.

  35. Jarrah

    “I never saw any evidence of child sexual abuse whatsoever nor heard any rumours of such abuse.”

    Probably because, as some people have pointed out, Catholics are no more likely to be child abusers than any other group.

    But the actual instances of abuse are not the focus, which is instead on the ways organisations (and I hope the terms of reference are very wide when it comes to this) covered up the crimes.

  36. Jannie

    Class Wars
    Gender Wars
    Sexual Preference Wars

    Religious Wars?

    Seriously doing my head in today.

  37. Gab

    Not today, tbh, as I said he is way ahead in the labelling Abbott a paed0 becuase he’s a Catholic.

    You can see for yourself, do a google search:

    Burnside apologises for Abbott paed0phile remark

  38. tbh

    honestly, if Mr Abbott shrinks and runs away again from Gillard/McTernan, he may as well give the job up to someone else.

    Agreed. Time to stop playing defence constantly and show a bit of leadership.

  39. tbh

    honestly, if Mr Abbott shrinks and runs away again from Gillard/McTernan, he may as well give the job up to someone else.

    Yep, did and found it. Confirms all my suspicions about what a prick Burnside is.

  40. Cato the Elder

    Abbott better sue that scum Burnside quick smart.

  41. Joe

    Let me first declare I am a Catholic.
    I agree with Abbott’s position. If there is to be a RC, let’s have a broad-ranging one, and not focus on one institution. I think for the good of the church, let’s have it too. For so long as an RC is not held, there will be no end to anti-Catholic bashing on this issue for years and years to come.

  42. tbh

    Joe I tend to err on the side of disclosure too. Better to air these issues and deal with them, even though the process will be painful.

  43. SteveC

    JC, you said you read the Inspector Fox transcript. Have you forgotten it already? Also look up the transcript for Father Kevin Lee. Of course there’s tons that hasn’t come out yet, that’s the whole point.

  44. Hugh

    As a practicing Catholic, I have absolutely no objection to an objective, arms-length, non-agenda based, government inquiry into all systemic child-abuse issues within any institution in Australia, from the Catholic Church to (let’s say) the ABC, and further on, to the remote aboriginal communities. Indeed, I warmly welcome the project.

    Genuine Catholics, innocent ABC devots, and remote community citizens will be the beneficiaries.

  45. SteveC would that be the “Father” Kevin Lee who lied to his flock while he went and got married?

    The one who broke his vows?

    He’s a bit light in the credibility stakes, I guess, unless you’re looking for yet another club to bash the catholics with.

  46. SteveC

    Yes nilk, that’s the one. You suspect he is simply making up the stuff he talked about? Check the transcript and lateline and get back to me. I would imagine he is a likely witness to the RC.

  47. Scapula

    Yes, everyone welcomes the RC with scarecly concealed venom.

    We really have to wait for the terms of reference to see how profound this inquiry will be.

    As it stands, however, it has brilliantly ‘wedged’ the opposition by making an issue of the failure of venerable social institutions.

  48. Alice

    Hang on. why should the Catholic Church be subjugated to a “wide ranging” enquiry on child abuse.

    Seems to me the Catolic Church has been attracting the wrong types for decades.

    Could it have anything to do with their celibacy vows? Could it have anything to do with the fat that they dont encourage women into the priesthood?

    Oh no – nothing at all (BS).

    I wont tread carefully with this one Sinc. What happens and what gets covered up and papered over in the Catolic church needs to be investigated and exposed. Its been going on way too long. Enough. There are repeated incidences of cover ups by the Catholic Church.

    I say we rip out the cover ups with prying legislation and fine the bastards. NOW.

  49. I agree with Joe (and am an atheist).
    All cults secure financial and sexual privileges for the elites that run them. They should ALL be investigated.

  50. tbh

    Scapula, I don’t think it’s a wedge issue. Isn’t Rudd a Catholic too?

  51. jupes

    Why weren’t the ass clowns on the Drum as gung ho when Howard instituted the Intervention?

    Aren’t Aboriginal kids worthy enough for a Royal Commission?

  52. Look you twits: Burnside’s explanation as to how he was not referring to Abbott when he tweeted that comment appeared credible and convincing. He issued an unsolicited apology as soon as he realised what had happened, and in the course of that made it clear that while he finds many faults with Abbott, he certainly would not want to have his genuine criticisms derailed by this accident.

  53. Winnedge

    Surely the Heiner Affair needs to be part of this. i.e. Institutional Cover up

    Just thinking…This proposal has to go before the GG. to discuss terms of reference. The Heiner Affair would bring up some well known Labor names, including that of Rudd and the GG herself!

    How will that work?

  54. Scapula

    Rudd is actually a convert to Anglicanism from Catholicism, but its more a question of the borader cultural debate and not party politics per se.

  55. Matt

    Isn’t Rudd a Catholic too?

    Ex-Catholic Anglican. Left the Catholic church after his experience at Marist Ashgrove I believe. Has no love for the Catholic church.

  56. 2dogs

    Gillard did not use the word “Catholic” in her press release.

    If the Royal Commission has terms of reference which are are similarly non-specific, but the Commission then subsequently targets Catholics when it handles Victorian cases, can the Commissioner then be found guilty of breaching section 8 of the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act (VIC) 2001?

  57. Arnost

    If I was to defend against the implied smear on Abbott, I would bogy up some stats – to the effect: What’s the percentage of priests convicted of peadophillia to those teaching/running a parish, compared to Labor MP’s convicted of the same thing.

    Actually I think that this is not primarilly directed at Abbott but a smokescreen to cover the Obeid / McDonald disclosures.

  58. ar

    Are outback welfare communities to be included in the RC? Bet not.

  59. 2dogs

    In particular, does privilege cover that Act or only defamation?

  60. ar

    And how many times does Gillard have to say “I” in an announcement?

  61. jupes

    The Attorney-General and the Minister for Families will co-ordinate this work…

    Oh dear.

    The whole thing will degenerate into a farce with Roxon running the show.

  62. Art Vandelay

    Why is my comment in moderation? I didn’t use any banned words.

  63. Sinclair Davidson

    Alice – by tread carefully I mean don’t defame anyone. Already a number of comments have been deleted.

  64. jupes

    Burnside’s explanation as to how he was not referring to Abbott when he tweeted that comment appeared credible and convincing.

    Only to an idiot.

  65. Scapula

    Its always been clear that the destruction of the Heiner documents was improper and its always been clear that there was a real scandal that should have been investigated fully, but the dots connecting the two are unclear.

  66. Sinclair Davidson

    Art – you named specific individuals. That comment is not going up.

  67. jupes

    …but the dots connecting the two are unclear.

    Hence the need for a Royal Commission.

  68. Sinclair Davidson

    Hard to understand the link to Heiner.

  69. Alfonso

    Watch innocent young Tony fall for McTernan’s trap and be irresistibly drawn to provide support, restrained and oblique tho it might be, for his Mother Church……in convenient sound bites for Their ABC.

  70. kae

    Interesting.

    As if child abuse in institutions of any kind is something which has just come to light.

  71. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Sinc:

    Told you so.

    Again I raise the idea of running a ‘predictive’ thread here to look at the array of smears/sliming and dirty tricks the ALP is going to run over the next few months.

    As for this, what is it but yet another media blitz to distract attention from the massive and institutionalised corruption in the ALP?
    And their incompetence…
    And the waste of money…
    And their endless slaughter of people at sea…
    And their loss of control of the borders…
    And Juliar’s alleged assistance in the alleged theft of money by the married guy the slapper was shagging…

    But I do love the way Milne snapped her fingers and Juliar scurried to do her bidding like a good little lapdog.

  72. Gab

    As if child abuse in institutions of any kind is something which has just come to light.

    Nope. Never happened before 2012.

  73. jupes

    Hard to understand the link to Heiner.

    A child was abused. There are allegations of an institutional cover up.

  74. Sinclair Davidson

    Mk50 – I did think about that but don’t want to accidently provide them with ideas.

  75. JC

    JC, you said you read the Inspector Fox transcript. Have you forgotten it already?

    What did I forget, SteveC, you misbegotten slob? Fox made several accusations, which when combined amounted to a conspiracy theory. He accused the Police Force higher ups, the Catholic Church senior honchos and by default the NSW government of a cover up.
    However what I didn’t read into Fox’s comments was if there was any new developments. Are there?

    We also don’t know why he was relieved from his job in the police as a senior investigator into child abuse accusations. Fox implied in the interview that the reason was because he was getting close to a huge conspiracy to cover up. I’m calling that bullshit.

    SteveC, you’re not a neutral voice in all this as CL recently posted a comment made by you that this sort of stuff excites you in some strange way. That you seem to get excited by pedophile accusations and discourse. You attempted to deflect the comment but CL copied and pasted what you said. It was quite disturbing.

    SteveC, you seem to have a highly selective outrage filter too. Last evening you were admonishing me because I suggested it would have been a positive externality if Fat Boy had been aborted. You were outraged. However I noticed you weren’t outraged when Krispy Kreme boy was making some seriously disturbing racist comments directed toward me on several occasion.

    You really are a passive aggressive douchebag and it shouldn’t not surprise why I frequently go after you.

  76. Matt

    Actually I think that this is not primarilly directed at Abbott but a smokescreen to cover the Obeid / McDonald disclosures.

    This has dictated the timing at least. Tomorrow’s papers were going to be about the ALPs endemic (this seems to be the word of the day) corruption. Corruption from groups so powerful they could seemingly dethrone state Premiers at will. Not any more.

  77. Gab

    Really what will this Royal Commission achieve?

  78. JC

    Also look up the transcript for Father Kevin Lee. Of course there’s tons that hasn’t come out yet, that’s the whole point.

    No, I’m not as enthralled with this shit like you are. Fox had absolutely nothing to say that was new. In fact he talked about catching and charging abusers who presumably went to jail as they certainly deserved. That’s old, you imbecile.

  79. Sinclair Davidson

    Really what will this Royal Commission achieve?

    Lots of press coverage about evil papists crowding out stories about trade unionists in an election year.

  80. jupes

    Really what will this Royal Commission achieve?

    Smearing of Catholics and therefore Abbott,

    Over 12 months of headlines which will be helpful to keep bad news off the front page – see current NSW ICAC enquirey,

    Plenty of money for lawyers and judges.

  81. candy

    It will achieve more points in the polls. I notice the ALP have gone up yet again and this will further it for them, by demonising Catholics and Tony Abbott, and inciting religious intolerance.

  82. JC

    Really what will this Royal Commission achieve?

    It’s politically motivated. To fuck Abbott, the Catholic Church and to make the government appear like it cares lots and therefore deflect attention from all their fuck ups. The limey is one slimey strategist. He’s actually pretty good at the superficial level. It helping the government make it appear that it is in charge and caring.

    The Libs have no counter. They are caught like deer in headlights.

  83. JC

    Lots of press coverage about evil papists crowding out stories about trade unionists in an election year.

    SteveC

    You support a Royal commission in union and Liars Party corruption? I head on the news this evening that Eddie Obeid is accused of making $100 million through insider trading deals. That’s not chump change champ.

  84. JC

    Don’t walk away, SteveC you slimeball. Answer the comments I’ve made to you.

  85. val majkus

    Heiner (or Shreddergate as it’s affectionately called) = cover up = institutionalised response

    does that connect the dots?

  86. Sinclair Davidson

    JC – get new glasses. That’s not SteveC.

  87. thefrollickingmole

    It was mentioned above, but are the stats for teachers in general much different than for priests?

    I know of one questionable case in my home town where a teacher was allowed to resign over some extremely questionable activity.

    Thats not “wattaboutery”, any profession that allows authority over children will attract people seeking to exercise that power in bad ways.

    I must admit one of my first thoughts when this “erupted” was “how is Labour profiting from this”?

    The main reason I can see is giving the presstitutes a steady drip-drip of “shock horror ped0” stories to drive Labours stuff ups off the page..

    Also if you like a morbid laugh try this for an example of what we are due to see…..

    (the pedo-finder general)

  88. 2dogs

    Since the world is not currently warming as AGW predicts, Gillard has turned to Lady WhiteAdder for an explanation.

  89. manalive

    Good idea but why now?
    That’s right JC, it’s another imported stunt.

  90. JC

    Sinc..

    The last comment in quotes? Yes I know. I was using that quote in support to club SteveC like a baby seal.

  91. Scapula

    The reality is that whatever political advantage Gillard may take from this RC, the fact is that events had made an inquiry inescapable. And It could backfire.

  92. Tapdog

    [email protected]

    I wonder of the RC will consider female genital mutilation by Muslims.

    Current (ABC 730) claim is that the terms of reference will confine the RC only to institutionalized abuse. That may provide a handy escape clause for the surgical mutilation of children that took place outside of the direct supervision of a religious organization

    Incidentally Leigh Sales tonight twice asks why the Commission does not focus solely on the Catholic Church because a “broader” enquiry might take too long?

    Seems fair.

  93. Sinclair Davidson

    does that connect the dots?

    Not really. Isn’t the issue that the report got shredded because the inquiry wasn’t properly set up?

  94. Alice

    JC get new glasses? Why am I not surprised?

  95. Mk50 of Brisbane

    SInc:

    I did think about that but don’t want to accidently provide them with ideas.

    Hmmm. Good point, that.

    There has to be a way to use the ‘open architecture’ analytical tool that the Cat really represents to do something like this without giving the game away.

    Is it possible to run a thread where only specified IP addresses can obtain access to comments?

    Or where the comments are otherwise not accessible to the genpop?

    Or a register and log in gateway to approved uses only?

    Selecting the known ‘good guys’ is a doddle, Kae, Gab, Lizzie, CL, Nilk, JC, Pickles etc etc (actually, there’s an amazing number of really sharp ladies commenting here, isn’t there?)

    I actually think it would be a good idea, and potentially of use to forewarn the Libs/Nats. Again, I don’t offer the concept without being willing to do a chunk of the work.

  96. old bloke

    Wasn’t the Heiner Affair concerned with child abuse and government cover up?

    Could this Royal Commission be used to reopen that affair?

  97. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Old Bloke – sounds like you need to make a submission to the RC!

  98. Alice

    Sinc without naming any names I am more than happy the Catholic Church getsto out theur secrets and I am more than happy that bkudging union topdog officials get investigated to “out” their rorting secrets too.
    Ive had a gutful of secrets including right up to the top of the Reserve Bank and Securency and back down to the NSW State Government and car deals, maroubra development deals, coal license deals and you know the rest of it.
    We have been taken over by a bunch of grafters and WE??? WE??? have to watch what we say about whom.

    Ill just say one thing Sinc that can’t be attributed to any one of the slimeballs. I’m being very careful but some in power are just….

    Slimeballs.

  99. Chrisse

    How about including our magistrates who slap sexual abusers on the back of the hand and let them back on the streets to do it again. They treat our children as nothing more than collateral damage for their social policies. While we’re at it, can we bring to light the psychiatrists who were advising the Church, police, the authorities that these child abusers could be cured AND that it didn’t effect the children – it was the parents response that created the problem for the child. All the rage in the psych community at the time.

    There hasn’t been any instances of abuse in the Church for the last 30 odd years; but child sexual abuse is rampant in society.

    The people salivating over this do not care about child sexual abuse at all otherwise they’d be too busy at what is going on NOW to have time for what happened 30 years ago.

    Besides which it wasn’t pre-pubescent, it was mainly post pubescent males and adult same-sex attracted males – seemingly not a problem when it’s adults heteros and post pubescent girls. The condition is known as ephobelia. But the other word sounds sooo much worse for the bigots to gyrate over.

  100. SteveC

    JC, you clearly didn’t read what Lee said. He was talking about people who have NOT been charged yet. And he doesn’t know why.

  101. JC

    If Brandis had a set of big ones he ought to do a press release along the lines of

    “Of course we support this Royal Commission into institutionalized pedophilia as long as it not a cover for the government to attack a single religious group. We will continue to support the Royal Commission once we attain government next year.

    We will also be instituting a Royal Commission into what appears to be systemic trade union corruption and will ask for advice on how to deal with it. We will also want to examine the corrupt actions of the Lying Slapper when she was a solicitor as it is clear that all she has done is attempt to obfuscate and lie about her involvement”

    There, with a coupla paras you place her and the government again in the spot light over their dishonesty and corrupt mates. Pour boiling fucking oil over these arseholes and don’t let them see the light of day. the Slapper should not get one good night sleep between now and the election.

  102. Alice

    Where are the control???. Why cant unions and givernments and churches deal with this crap behaviour within and just expel the bastards?

    Why does it have to come down to “well we will wait for the courts to decide just in case we get sued by another lot of lawyers for defamation??”

    Its BS when the only people making money out of taxpayers are governments and lawyers playing delaying games.

    It is enough to turn you into a libertarian isnt it?

  103. JC

    JC, you clearly didn’t read what Lee said. He was talking about people who have NOT been charged yet. And he doesn’t know why.

    Yes steveC you numbnut, it’s not clear to me what Lee said, because I didn’t fucking read what he said. I told you earlier upthread that after the Fox interview I had zero interest.

    If Lee has information then let the fucker go to the cops first instead of hanging around with Fat Tony Jones.

  104. lotocoti

    Did i miss hear, or did their ABC once again elevate George Pell’s responsibilities beyond that of the Sydney Diocese?
    (See Media Watch Dog for more on their form for reflexive Pell auto da fé.)

  105. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    They’re good at it, I’ll give ’em that.

    I saw TV news vision (no sound ‘cos the prime mister mute alert™ had already activated) of our Much Loved Wide Helmsperson and some Asian fella making the announcement, with much gravity.

    A royal commission into Heiner and the AWU couldn’t get a start at a Hawkesbury mid week meeting but a Royal Commission into the Dark and Secretive Sect of which AbbottAbbottAbbott is a Leading, Influential, Active, Long Term, Card Carrying Member – an Elder no less – will raise the question about the role that Tony Abbott is playing from now until the day of the election.

    The tactic is noted here already – the Hon Burnside makes his play and then “apologises”. The statement has already had maximum impact and what follows is incidental, much like the announcement of the royal commission.

    And look, look! – the negative, no-ist bounder has already attempted to sabotage the honest work of the gummint by demanding a “wide ranging” enquiry – clearly intended to blur the focus on the guilty. I’d be surprised if Red Kezza’s ABC mob don’t make a bird of that bit at 7:30pm tonight.

    They’ve set this up nicely and I fear it will meet their objectives. The detailed subject matter of the enquiry is whole ‘nuther thing.

  106. Alice

    Yes Chrissie – I agree except for the post pubescent excuse. It doesnt matte and doesnt excuse. Those kids are still impressionable.

    What I want to know is why the bastards go years without being SACKED.

  107. JC

    The reality is that whatever political advantage Gillard may take from this RC, the fact is that events had made an inquiry inescapable. And It could backfire.

    What’s made the ‘quiry inescapable, Bob, you lardball?

    Has there been a crime wave of pedophilia over the recent years?

    What are the crime stats telling us? I bet for all money that the crime stats will show it’s basically running at the pace it always has.

  108. val majkus

    Not really. Isn’t the issue that the report got shredded because the inquiry wasn’t properly set up?

    Nope that’s not the issue.
    The Heiner affair is the long-running controversy surrounding the Goss cabinet’s 1990 shredding of documents relating to child abuse – including the rape of a 14-year-old Aboriginal girl – after it aborted an inquiry into the former John Oxley Youth Detention Centre. The documents had been compiled during an inquiry headed by former magistrate Noel Heiner that was set up in the final days of the Queensland Cooper conservative government in 1989. The documents were shredded notwithstanding the cabinet had notice of impending Court proceedings against the Crown. The timeline of events is here

    click on the link on the top right hand corner ‘the beginnings of Shreddergate’

    As I said previously Heiner (or Shreddergate as it’s affectionately called) = cover up = institutionalised response

  109. Greg P.

    I’m dreaming of the day Australia’s Provisional Council for National Restoration launches it’s own Royal Commission into Left-wing brainwashing of children.

  110. SteveC

    CL recently posted a comment made by you that this sort of stuff excites you in some strange way. That you seem to get excited by pedophile accusations and discourse. You attempted to deflect the comment but CL copied and pasted what you said. It was quite disturbing.

    JC, here’s what I said about and to CL, including what he repeated:

    Looking forward to CL’s running commentary on the commission of inquiry into child abuse by Catholic priests in NSW.

    I hope you also share my concern and are pleased to see, finally, an commission of inquiry into child abuse by the catholic clergy. I hope it gets widened to a full Royal Commission.

    Any reference to excitement there? You should get those glasses checked, as others have suggested.

    I am certainly looking forward to hearing CL’s views (strangely quiet so far) on the RC.

    Finally, on comparisons to other scandals. There is already an ICAC enquiry into “NSW Inc”, which is the appropriate forum. If you think an inquiry into the wholly inadequate pusuit to date of institutional child abuse is on a par with S&G or other political scandals, or exists merely as a distraction, then in addition to your glasses, you should check your moral compass, because it’s either not working or you have lost it.

  111. val majkus

    Australia’s Provisional Council for National Restoration launches it’s own Royal Commission into Left-wing brainwashing of children

    great point! Could it be fitted into the terms of reference of the RC announced today?

  112. SteveC

    Yes steveC you numbnut, it’s not clear to me what Lee said, because I didn’t fucking read what he said.

    Then you should. Then you might stop asking “Is any of this new?”

  113. Septimus

    Ho hum.

    This is just a diversion. It’s the latest move by Dullard and her advisers to counter:

    – the attention being given/about to be given to her involvement in slush funds and the theft of other people’s money

    – the revelations to come from the ongoing ICAC investigations into the corrupt practices of the Labor Party in NSW.

    Tony Abbott and his Shadow Ministers need to be actively prosecuting the case now against the crooks who masquerade as our government.

  114. candy

    Most child abuse occurs in the home or by a “family friend”. Abuse of children in institutions may be a drop in the ocean by comparison.

  115. Old woman of the north

    Ho Hum, I agree with you. Anything to avert attention to the corruption and unethical behaviour.

    Ironic that the NSW Labor has been revealed as corrupt now too.

    Too true, Candy

  116. JC

    JC, here’s what I said about and to CL, including what he repeated:

    Actually that doesn’t appear to be waht you said. CL later corrected your attempt to deflect attention for that seriously strange comment by you. Lets hope he arrives soon and posts it again.

    Finally, on comparisons to other scandals.

    Who’s comparing scandals, you fucking idiot? How would one compare and contrast an Inquiry into pedophilia and union/ ALP corruption. It would be like trying to compare ice cream to a tank of gas. In other words impossible and useless.

    There is already an ICAC enquiry into “NSW Inc”, which is the appropriate forum.

    So what? NSW isn’t Australia wide, you devious, dishonest fucker.

    If you think an inquiry into the wholly inadequate pusuit to date of institutional child abuse is on a par with S&G or other political scandals, or exists merely as a distraction, then in addition to your glasses, you should check your moral compass, because it’s either not working or you have lost it.

    I’m totally agnostic to the ‘quiry you douchebag. I think it’s unnecessary because if there is an accusation of pedo behavior then that is what the cops are there for.

    A ‘quiry is would be good if there was say a spike in this heinous crime, but I’m uncertain if there is.

    It’s just the Liars Party trying to deflect attention away from its fuck ups and pretend it cares. In other words it’s politically motivated.

  117. Sinclair Davidson

    Why cant unions and givernments and churches deal with this crap behaviour within and just expel the bastards?

    Actually why don’t the police arrest the preps and prosecute them?

  118. manalive

    … the wholly inadequate pu[r]suit to date of institutional child abuse is on a par with S&G …

    SteveC has already come up with a RC findings before it’s held (if ever).

  119. JC

    Then you should. Then you might stop asking “Is any of this new?”

    Look, SteveC you douchebag. You sent us to the Fox interview in that breathless pansy way of yours. I thought, okay, let me give SteveC the benefit of the doubt this time and I will waste a few minutes of my life and see what it’s all about.

    it basically turned into a conspiracy theory with one lunatic, Fox talking to a leftwing, taxpayer funded turd (tony jones). It turned out to be a conspiracy theory.

    And now you’re suggesting I go listen to another interview? You don’t get two chances to wasting away a few more minutes of my life.

    Fuck off.

  120. JC

    This needs to be in bold.

    Ho hum.

    This is just a diversion. It’s the latest move by Dullard and her advisers to counter:

    – the attention being given/about to be given to her involvement in slush funds and the theft of other people’s money

    – the revelations to come from the ongoing ICAC investigations into the corrupt practices of the Labor Party in NSW.

    Tony Abbott and his Shadow Ministers need to be actively prosecuting the case now against the crooks who masquerade as our government.

    Run both commissions is what the Libs ought to say.

  121. Tiny Dancer

    Just watching Leigh Sales ( an hour after everyone else, up here in beautiful Qld), and it must be said that she is truly woeful, hopelessly biased and quite rude, even to a guest who is obviously trying to answer the question. A pig with lipstick.

  122. ‘… anti-catholic bigotry’?

    Yer a good blogger and all that Sinc, but on this story you are *very* out of touch.

  123. Arnost

    The tactic is noted here already – the Hon Burnside makes his play and then “apologises”.

    Isn’t the Hon Julian going to be the commissioner? That’s a given – isn’t it? /sarc

  124. Sinclair Davidson

    TimT – wait till you see the transcript before forming that opinion.

  125. badm0f0

    The inquiry announced will cover alleged abuse at any state, religious or private institution with responsibility for caring for children. These are the exact terms Abbott set down as conditions under which he would support an inquiry. I don’t think he’s part of the anti-Catholic conspiracy.

  126. Carpe Jugulum

    arrest the preps

    They may be a bit young.

    lol, a typo that lightened the mood.

  127. Sinclair Davidson

    Okay – I’m so ashamed.

    Arrest the perps.

  128. Sinclair Davidson

    badm0f0 – yes, indeed. Yet I got a very different view watching the comments on the ABC The Drum show.

  129. Arnost

    This is just a diversion. It’s the latest move by Dullard and her advisers to counter … [headlines from AWU slush fund / ICAC etc]

    Exactly – provide the luvvie media front page stories and relegate the “embarrasing” stuff to small print on page 5. I listened very carefully to the ABC 702 news after the cricket and the fact that Obeid corruptly helped himself to $100m wasn’t in the headlines and barely rated a mention in PM or whatever the current affairs programme was after that.

  130. Gab

    Yet I got a very different view watching the comments on the ABC The Drum show.

    Then don’t go anywhere near twitter #royal commission. The Catholic bashing there is just abysmal.

  131. Carpe Jugulum

    So this will get a run on Q&A tonight i suppose, and, i’m sure some demented buffoon will raise the question about the role that Tony Abbott is playing in this.

  132. JC

    Bado

    What are the crime stats in that segment that would lend any credence to a need for a quiry?

    Lets face facts, a certain number of our species are attracted to children. Some of commit these crimes.

  133. Carpe Jugulum

    Okay – I’m so ashamed.

    Sorry Sinc for being pedantic, but when i first read the typo i imagined toddlers being lead away in cuffs. It gave me a smile. 🙂

  134. Sinclair Davidson

    Carpe – it was quite funny …

  135. Gab

    Cardinal George Pell, who has previously said he believes his church has been unfairly targeted due to “anti-Catholic prejudice”, said he hoped the new investigation would clear the air.

    “Public opinion remains unconvinced that the Catholic church has dealt adequately with sexual abuse,” he said in a statement on Monday night.

    “Ongoing and at times one-sided media coverage has deepened this uncertainty. This is one of the reasons for my support for this royal commission.

    “I welcome the prime minister’s announcement. I believe the air should be cleared and the truth uncovered. We shall cooperate fully with the royal commission.”

  136. Jannie

    Predictions?

    They will slime Abbott with anything and erything, and the ABC will convince the world its Abbott who is running the dirty campaign.

    Safe money they will try. But I am not sure it will work, for obvious reasons.

  137. manalive

    It was once ‘Reds under the beds’, it’s now ‘Peds under they beds’.

  138. JC

    Jannie

    I think the liars party is onto one issue a day to show they are working hard and fighting, fighting for us.

    It helps deflect attention.

  139. Tiny Dancer

    Nothing to see at ICAC today on the ABC. Banging on about an announcement about something that might happen is of overwhelming importance.

  140. JC

    So this will get a run on Q&A tonight i suppose, and, i’m sure some demented buffoon will raise the question about the role that Tony Abbott is playing in this.

    No, because it’s not on. It made way for some story about a dude contracting a lung disease from asbestos. It’s basically a short series to show up evil corporations.

  141. Mk50 of Brisbane

    cripes, Carpe…

    Sorry Sinc for being pedantic, but when i first read the typo i imagined toddlers being lead away in cuffs.

    You can’t say that! Judging by previous guilty perp numbers of that affiliation, you just got a significant proportion of the party wot currently holds federal office all moist and excited. 🙂

    (No names, oh Mighty Doomlord, no names! Spare me thy Olympian thunderbolts….)

  142. Carpe Jugulum

    No, because it’s not on.

    Woo Hoo, thank heaven for small mercies.

  143. Pedro

    JC, that is a pretty evil story, and I’m talking about a good client. Did you see the appeal court reduced the penalties for the directors?

    On topic. In 8 years with the christian and marist bros I didn’t see any sex abuse, but I did see a vicious criminal physically assault boys and if the school leadership had been at all decent minded they would have marched the fuckwit to the local cop shop and handed him over. Instead he got moved, probably after a sabatical.

    At the time we just shrugged our shoulders and were happen nobody was seriously injured, but looking back as an adult you realise you were witnessing crimes. I think a lot of good is undone by the active toleration of a small number of serious crimes.

  144. As a practising Catholic I yearn for the day when child abuse and the Catholic Church are words not spoken in the same breath.
    Having said that, this kind of behaviour is always possible in organisations (civil and ecclesiastical) where there are entrenched hierarchies and power structures. The recent sacking of Bishop Bill Morris in Toowoomba is a case in point. I believe (as do many other Catholics in Toowoomba) that Bill got the boot because he dared to manage abuse in his diocese with honesty and integrity.

  145. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Oh, noes!

    I just realised. Shitfer’s going to get so hot under the collar about this issue that we are going to have to hose him down with bulk liquid nitrogen so he does not combust.

    I am calling BOC Gases Australia at Wollongabba for urgent supply of several tons of liquid N2.

  146. Gab

    Oh well, send him lots of screen wipes, Mk.

  147. Sinclair Davidson

    Gab – emailed you

  148. JC

    Pedro

    JC, that is a pretty evil story, and I’m talking about a good client. Did you see the appeal court reduced the penalties for the directors?

    I never looked closely in to the story but from what I understand the firm moved assets around to protect themselves from liability.

    Look Predo, they caused suffering and death then they ought to pay.

    Having said that, we should also understand that asbestos at one stage was considered the wonder product. It’s terrible what happened, but also one of those things that do.

  149. Don’t worry, Mk50. Just dump him in an empty nuclear reactor and harvest the steam coming out of his ears.
    Should get a Gw or two.

  150. Gab

    Gab – emailed you

    I always feel like I’m in trouble when you do that, Sinclair – even though you’ve never reprimanded me. Must be the Catholic school girl guilt bubbling up.

  151. Sinclair Davidson

    even though you’ve never reprimanded me.

    I’m a gentleman – would never reprimand a lady.

  152. Rob

    Ho Hum, I agree with you. Anything to avert attention to the corruption and unethical behaviour.

    Ironic that the NSW Labor has been revealed as corrupt now too.

    It’s not like there have been any pedophiles in the NSW Labor Party, or any cover-ups.

  153. Sinclair Davidson

    Like that’s a bad thing.

  154. David

    I’m surprised that no-one else has picked up that this is the next chapter in the Gillard re-election strategy following the Obama blueprint adapted for Australia.

    No one here will be fooled but nobody here is the target audience.

    I guarantee the terms of reference will not expand beyond the catholic church and that this has already won her votes.

    She has not shown any interest in running the country since becoming prime minister. Every word, every sentence is geared towards the next election.

    Abbott has no choice but to get on the front foot. Romney played nice and lost what he should’ve won.

  155. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Gab, that was just wicked.

    And damned funny.

  156. badm0f0

    What are the crime stats in that segment that would lend any credence to a need for a quiry?

    The problem is that the accusations against a whole range of organisations display very similar patterns of incompetence, neglect and institutional self-interest that have in many cases allowed abuse to continue or proliferate as they have allowed the offenders to simply move on. The similarities traverse the differences in religious affiliation, public/private status and social, educational or cultural purpose of the particular institutions in question. At the very least any inquiry should identify any failings which allowed such things to occur, compel those responsible to show how they have addressed them & provide a framework for all those who have a duty of care to children to ensure they aren’t repeated.

  157. Token

    Did i miss hear, or did their ABC once again elevate George Pell’s responsibilities beyond that of the Sydney Diocese?
    (See Media Watch Dog for more on their form for reflexive Pell auto da fé.)

    So this group was in the Hunter.

    Do you think this group of RC ever had discussions with Milton Orkopoulos? There is a certain institution that caused the NSW gov to lose an appeal pay out damages on 01/11/12.

    She said she was harassed, bullied and victimised by the MP and co-workers in the office for almost a year after reporting an October 2005 phone call.

    The caller said he had been sexually abused by Orkopoulos since he was 15.

    In 2008, the former Aboriginal affairs minister was jailed for at least nine years for child sex and drugs offences.

    In ordering the speaker and Orkopoulos to pay damages of $438,613, Justice Derek Price accepted that Ms Sneddon suffered psychiatric injury due to the MP’s conduct towards her.

    If Pell and the Catholic hierarchy are deemed responsible for his organisations actions, I’m sure a challenge can be made by the current NSW government that the executive government should be deemed to be responsible.

  158. Token

    Misogynist!

    Which definition?

    The real version or the kiddies pretend dictionary version?

  159. Gab

    None. I was just teasing, Token. Although some feminazis would see it as serious – as in “so you think I’m a weak little female who couldn’t handle a reprimand etc etc”.

  160. Jarrah

    “I guarantee the terms of reference will not expand beyond the catholic church”

    Want to bet? Assuming targeting the CC is actually the aim of the RC, at the very least political cover will be sought by including other organisations.

  161. Sinclair Davidson

    On the Drum some of them were suggesting to only go after the Catholic Church. Dumb move.

  162. JC

    This reminds me of the story Maxine Mckew once told.

    She told how she was aware of the stuff going on with aboriginal kids over the course of time due to various stories she was doing in those remote areas.

    She said how she didn’t do anything about it because it wouldn’t be considered PC.

    Now that’s seriously fucking evil.

  163. Jarrah

    I only watch the Drum if Tim Wilson is on.

  164. Token

    None. I was just teasing, Token.

    Really, we live in strange times and you never know when a girl needs to make a fuss as cover a batch of misogynistic tweets 😉

  165. candy

    “The Libs have no counter. They are caught like deer in headlights.”

    JC you’re right there, they are so totally floundering now it’s disheartening.

  166. Sinclair Davidson

    I only watch the Drum if Tim Wilson is on.

    Wise choice – although Chris Berg and James Paterson are good too. I watched tonight by accident and was appalled by the bigotry.

  167. val majkus

    Should extend the TOR to those who make false claims of sexual abuse like … well mysogony
    lets include all the victims

  168. hammygar

    It’s about time a judicial enquiry was held into the evils perpetrated by the Roman Catholic church. Their officials have been abusing children for as long as I can remember. The so-called Christian Brothers were a collection of Irish thugs who were responsible for a disproportionate number of child abuse complaints.

    Abbott seeks to “widen” the enquiry to take the heat off this cult. That would simply be a distraction. Everyone knows the bulk of child abuse carried out in Australia over the last century were by these hypocrites. About time they were brought to account.

  169. Helen Armstrong

    Bill Tallen must be in a lot of family angst. it is not just bad for Mr Abbott, it is also bad for any Catholic ALP members and their families.

  170. Carpe Jugulum

    Everyone knows the bulk of child abuse carried out in Australia over the last century were by these hypocrites.

    Hyperbowl. *yawn*

  171. David

    I’m afraid political cover is no longer required to the same extent it used to.

    The bulk of the electorate rarely pays attention. That’s not a criticism by the way as people lead busy lives with different interests. The news they do see is already filtered and slanted

    I will grant that the focus may go beyond the catholic church but will be happy to bet it wont expand beyond the religious angle.

    I will be happy to be wrong, but honestly since when has this government ever shown that it could do things right and for the right reason. There is political capital to be made here somewhere.

  172. hammygar

    The one other good thing about this Royal Commission is that it will be the end of Abbott and the Coalition altogether. The man is forever tainted simply by his membership of that abominable cult. Good riddance.

  173. Token

    Gillard really is tapping into a vein of bile and hatred which is likely backfire. Look at what the moron Hammy says:

    Abbott seeks to “widen” the enquiry to take the heat off this cult.

    Hammy please get your local member to make that statement for you in parliament.

  174. Carpe Jugulum

    it will be the end of Abbott and the Coalition altogether.

    More hyperbowl *yawn*

    If you have proof present it to the police, or do you prefer to smear others.

  175. Helen Armstrong

    I think it is very bad to use the anguish of those who have been abused, across ALL institutions and those NOT in institutions to cover up an appalling government and a catastrophic Prime Minister.

    It is like covering up a robbery by staging a rape down the street. It disgusts me. This deserves its own place free of political expediency and Julia’s slime.

    To use it thus is as grievous as committing the abuse itself.

  176. candy

    Hammygar is kind of right.

    When people hear something about child sex abuse in church organisation they immediately assume it’s Catholic.

  177. TJW

    Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, in an objective sense, comes down entirely to who is appointed as commissioner. It will take a courageous man or woman to stand up and critically analyse the multitude of claims being made, by all sorts of people, many with a clear agenda and most without substantial evidence. The pressure to condemn the RCC, regardless of the evidence, will be overwhelming. In my opinion, if they fairly conclude that the response of the Church was flawed but not a planned obstruction of justice, then a significant percentage of the Australian community will hate them for it, regardless of the evidence.

    I, as another atheist/agnostic ex-Catholic, will be very happy that the RC goes ahead if and only if they appoint an impartial and critically minded individual as the head of the commission. The present committee in Victoria already has me worried with what I see as its deference for critics and credulity in response to unsubstantiated claims by some members of the Victorian community. Even organisations like the Law Institute of Victoria and Liberty Victoria made submissions that in my view failed to adequately emphasise the need to protect individuals and organisations from false accusations, something which the much criticised statute of limitations is designed to protect.

    The LIV says “There would seem to be a strong argument, though, that in regard to placing legal restrictions on commencing claims against religious or other organisations that the prejudice suffered by it through the passage of time should be balanced against the harm to the victim and should not receive significant weight in all cases.” So, in their view, there is a “strong argument” that “the prejudice suffered by” “religious or other organisations” “should not receive significant weight in all cases.” So there are cases when a party being prejudiced by the removal of a protection is acceptable? And how are they concluding someone is a “victim” before the proceedings have even begun? They advocate a temporary removal of the limits (implicitly acknowledging their importance by not advocating their complete removal,) just long enough to sue the hell out of some particular organisations. Go to: http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/fcdc/article/1789 and click submissions for a sample of the arguments being made.

    I imagine they’ll symbolically chose a female, non-Catholic commissioner, hopefully an ex-High Court or Supreme Court judge, but even more hopefully they’ll just chose someone on their merits.

  178. johanna

    Does ‘institutional’ include government facilities and services, I wonder?

    Bet it doesn’t.

    Careful drafting, as you would expect.

  179. tbh

    Johana, agree on all counts. That’s why I raised St Andrews in Katanning upthread. That was a government run boarding house if I recall correctly. Those facilities should definitely be in the terms of reference.

  180. Gab

    Words I’d love to hear but of course never will:

    I think if it’d been any other organisation in the country other than the Unions there’d been a Royal Commission a long time ago. They are extremely powerful, extremely politically influential but we should put that aside and we should say we must have a Royal Commission into corruption in the Unions.

    – Doug Cameron.

    Okay, those are his words expect I’ve replaced Catholic Church with Unions.

    The hypocrisy is grand.

    (Taken from the second video at the link)

  181. Jarrah

    “Wise choice – although Chris Berg and James Paterson are good too.”

    Don’t see Chris Berg around the traps often these days.

  182. I am the Walrus koo koo k'choo

    I spent a lot of time, as a boy, in and around catholic institutions. And these days whenever I hear about the appalling treatment to which other boys were subjected, I think ‘there but for the grace of god go I’.

    The catholic church has had this coming for a long time. And it is big enough and ugly enough to look after itself.

    Don’t get in the way.

  183. roger

    Cover-up? Just about every organization will cover up for any crime committed by one of its members, including child abuse. This is a matter for the Police. Full stop. At best this RC is an exercise in empty populism, at worst a subliminal smear of the Catholic who is after the spin doctor Scott’s boss’ (Gillard’s) job. Very possibly a combination of both. Nothing else.

  184. Rob

    “It’s about time a judicial enquiry was held into the evils perpetrated by the Roman Catholic church ALP. Their officials have been abusing children for as long as I can remember.”
    The ALP’s pedophiles are a lot more famous and infamous than the Catholic Church’s.

  185. hammygar

    Just about every organization will cover up for any crime committed by one of its members, including child abuse.

    The Catholics have the hide to lecture the rest of us on moral issues! The term “hypocrites” may well have been coined just for them.

  186. James Bauer

    I’m not religious (I’m agnostic) but I really don’t like the unashamed bashing of people’s religious beliefs, and religious institutions that is starting to increase quite markedly. Calls to tax religious institutions sent shivers to my spine.

  187. Chris M

    So will Gillards royal commission look into why the government allows and indeed funds infanticide?

    Yeah, didn’t think you really cared about children Gillard….

  188. Chris M

    Hammy – you should be aware that the great majority of abuse in the RCC has been by homosexual priests. Will this commission examine the strong statistical link between homosexuality and paedophilia?

    Nope, I suggest it’s only for show and for RCC / Abbott bashing. Just like many of your comments.

  189. The comments between MK50 and Gab at 9.23 and 9.26, presumably referring to me, were pretty offensive.

    I have long had a problem with the conservative element in the Church (exampled here by CL and d-b) downplaying the seriousness and extent of the issue, and have argued the entirely plausible lines (supported by American research I have cited before) that it is not an issue about homosexuality, and that there is every reason to believe that the modest modernisation of the Church to allow for married clergy would likely reduce the sort of abuse that has been most commonly cited in the past.

    To claim the topic “excites” me, or anyone else here, is stupid and insulting, and I think I have spent far less time on the topic anyway than many here.

  190. Scapula

    Who will head the RC?:
    Murray Gleeson is Catholic and a former Chief Justice of the HC.
    He probably has two of the necessary qualifications.

  191. badm0f0

    Does ‘institutional’ include government facilities and services, I wonder?

    Yes, that’s been made pretty clear:

    It will look at the history of religious groups, sporting organisations, Scouts and Guides, schools and state institutions

    .

  192. Scapula

    The only type of RC that works is the one that is highly specific, even if it widens in the course of the inquiry.

    This is going to be too big, too enompassing and it will end up producing very little in relation to cost.

  193. JC

    ….and that there is every reason to believe that the modest modernisation of the Church to allow for married clergy would likely reduce the sort of abuse that has been most commonly cited in the past.

    There’s a stat I keep reading/hearing that priests etc have no more propensity to offend tha the rest of the population. So if they married how eggsactly would that reduce any abuse, dagwood?

    If the stat is correct the offend rate shouldn’t change, unless of course you think that hetro sex and pedophilia is interchangeable.

    Why do i think you’re talking shit most of the time? Possibly because you are.

  194. JC

    The only type of RC that works is the one that is highly specific, even if it widens in the course of the inquiry.

    This is going to be too big, too enompassing and it will end up producing very little in relation to cost.

    No shit sherlock.

  195. JC

    I have long had a problem with the conservative element in the Church….

    So when you first came on describing yourself as conservative… that was basically bullshit crap, right?

  196. SteveC

    Actually that doesn’t appear to be waht you said

    Doesn’t appear, to you, because you can’t be bothered checking and choose to take CL’s interpretation. CL as we know is often loose with the facts. A weak reed to rely in to be sure. What I quoted is is exactly what I posted. You just make yourself look more stupid by not checking. It’s on the Open Forum and connect the dots.

  197. SteveC

    Who’s comparing scandals, you fucking idiot? How would one compare and contrast an Inquiry into pedophilia and union/ ALP corruption. It would be like trying to compare ice cream to a tank of gas. In other words impossible and useless.

    umm, you are:

    This is just a diversion. It’s the latest move by Dullard and her advisers to counter:

    – the attention being given/about to be given to her involvement in slush funds and the theft of other people’s money

    Tony Abbott and his Shadow Ministers need to be actively prosecuting the case now against the crooks who masquerade as our government.

    Run both commissions is what the Libs ought to say.

    Your moral compass is busted, as i ascertained earlier.

  198. Lazlo

    Hard to understand the link to Heiner.

    Because a child was sexually abused while in state care. This is uncontested.

    Not really. Isn’t the issue that the report got shredded because the inquiry wasn’t properly set up?

    No.

    The official cover-up line was that the report contained allegations that were potentially defamatory. It would be like shredding the FWA report into Craig Thomson for the same reason.

  199. SteveC

    I never looked closely in to the story but from what I understand the firm moved assets around to protect themselves from liability.

    Hardie or the church?

  200. mareeS

    Hopefully the Heiner matter of indigenous child abuse will be fully investigated, finally, after 20 years of shredding.

    However, the RC is mainly a job to get Abbott and Pell out of the way by taint.

    What the Prime Mistress and her henchman should not lose sight of is the fact that more than 5 million Australians, roughly 26% of the population, are Catholic.

    While we are ashamed of the behaviour of certain priests and are working for the welfare of their victims, there are millions of Catholics in Australia who have never encountered any form of this abuse.

    Catholics out here in the background will now be joining Jews as the subjects of deliberate politically motivated religious vilification by the left side of politics.

  201. JC

    Doesn’t appear, to you, because you can’t be bothered checking and choose to take CL’s interpretation. CL as we know is often loose with the facts. A weak reed to rely in to be sure. What I quoted is is exactly what I posted. You just make yourself look more stupid by not checking. It’s on the Open Forum and connect the dots.

    Not true. You appeared strangely delighted – excited in fact.

    Who’s comparing scandals, you fucking idiot? How would one compare and contrast an Inquiry into pedophilia and union/ ALP corruption. It would be like trying to compare ice cream to a tank of gas. In other words impossible and useless.

    umm, you are:

    No I’m not, you’re being a moron as usual.

  202. Scapula

    The paranoid style in right wing politics is emerging: all our sins are really due to those on the left who are persecuting us.

  203. SteveC

    Not true. You appeared strangely delighted – excited in fact.

    Find the quote JC (my post, not CL’s interpretation). Or keep pissing into the wind.

  204. SteveC

    Run both commissions is what the Libs ought to say.

    Why, because the subjects are equally important?

  205. SteveC

    Actually maybe your moral compass isn’t broken, maybe you’re just holding it upside down.

  206. JC

    The paranoid style in right wing politics is emerging: all our sins are really due to those on the left who are persecuting us.

    One word. Finkelstien.

  207. kae

    Chrissie

    Besides which it wasn’t pre-pubescent, it was mainly post pubescent males and adult same-sex attracted males – seemingly not a problem when it’s adults heteros and post pubescent girls

    In any situation where there is a person in a position of trust, a situation where a person is a guide, a leader, a shaper of these young adults, it is imperative that there is no misuse of that position of trust and authority. For example, in no case is it acceptable for a teacher to have a sexual or personal relationship with a student.

    It is a betrayal of the trust. In the case of clergy or schoolteachers it is the worst crime they can commit using their position in the community/society.

  208. JC

    Find the quote JC (my post, not CL’s interpretation). Or keep pissing into the wind.

    No. I’m sure CL will update the site soon enough. Keep talking about it so he doesn’t miss it if he doesn’t read upthread.

  209. SteveC

    There’s your problem, relying on CL to report accurately.

  210. JC

    Why, because the subjects are equally important?

    No, because in principle they have said they support it. However we know it’s part of the Slapper’s strategy to come out with a new thing per day in order to place the fuck ups and her past dishonesty in the background.

    There’s a good reason to inquire about union corruption and the ALP. It’s there and it’s big. Making this part of their election platform and announcing now would blunt the slapper’s attempt show she’s somehow “fighting” for us.

  211. Ubique

    Perhaps the Royal Commission might be able to work out the common denominator in this list: Milton Orkopoulos, Bill D’Arcy, Keith Wright, Terry Martin, Bernard Finnigan and Bob Collins.

  212. Rob

    Perhaps the Royal Commission might be able to work out the common denominator in this list: Milton Orkopoulos, Bill D’Arcy, Keith Wright, Terry Martin, Bernard Finnigan and Bob Collins.

    I am guessing that the abc would draw the link that they all worked in the same building as members of the liberal party.

  213. Jack

    I hope Gillard has considered the potential backlash if she chooses to target Catholics only in her child abuse inquiry. Roughly a third of Australians are Catholic and overwhelmingly support the labor party.

  214. Jannie

    Hammygar does the perfect Felix Derzinsky. If he does more than write parking tickets for a living we could be in trouble.

  215. JC

    Hammygar does the perfect Felix Derzinsky. If he does more than write parking tickets for a living we could be in trouble.

    He could cause an economic collapse by doing just that- writing parking tickets for a living.

    I wondered what he did and parking inspector would be the perfect job for him.

  216. .

    Is the ALP an institution? Were any of the women in a recent credit card fraud case truly of the legal age to work in that brothel?

  217. Jannie

    Roughly a third of Australians are Catholic and overwhelmingly support the labor party.

    Catholics just aint like they used to be. A lot of people only identify Catholic only as a tribal memory. Catholic schools are just as infested with post modernist alienation as the government schools. There are almost no priests of old Australian stock, only ones under 50 mostly Vietnamese or Croatian, in my limited experience.

    And uh, I can assure you most mature Catholics I know dont necessarily support Labor. The young ones are probably as stupid as they are allowed to be, which is a lot.

  218. sdog

    A child is almost certainly safer in the care of the Catholic Church than in the care of any given ALP pollie or ABC/BBC/PBS/NPR personality.

  219. Infidel tiger

    Young Labor. Shudder

  220. CC

    Will the Royal Commission investigate Labor’s “institutional response” to Orkopoulos, D’Arcy, Wright, Collins? If not why not?

    Will the Royal Commission investigate every lefty grop and organisation that opposed measures to rescue Aboriginal children from sex abuse? If not why not?

    One can go on and on.

    It is already clear that the majority of twitterati think this Royal Commission is all about Catholic bashing.

  221. Infidel tiger

    Catholics just aint like they used to be. A lot of people only identify Catholic only as a tribal memory. Catholic schools are just as infested with post modernist alienation as the government schools. There are almost no priests of old Australian stock, only ones under 50 mostly Vietnamese or Croatian, in my limited experience.

    My trouble and strife’s nan was buried recently by a 30 odd year old priest. Nice guy too.

  222. JC

    A child is almost certainly safer in the care of the Catholic Church than in the care of any given ALP pollie or ABC/BBC/PBS/NPR personality

    Lol

    This is what makes the Cat the go to place for a laugh.

  223. sdog

    Rhys: Oh really? Well, the Age says that 1 in 15 Catholic priests are p*dophiles, I would have thought something should be done.

    Have 1 in 15 Catholic priests been convicted of, or even formally charged with, child rape?

    If not, that’s an incredibly gratuitously offensive claim to make.

    Where is due process?

  224. sdog

    Vintage Iowahawk explores the media’s alarming propensity for tragic, drunk, violent, child-raping rage:

    A Denver newspaper columnist is arrested for stalking a story subject. In Cincinnati, a television reporter is arrested on charges of child molestation. A North Carolina newspaper reporter is arrested for harassing a local woman. A drunken Chicago Sun-Times columnist and editorial board member is arrested for wife beating. A Baltimore newspaper editor is arrested for threatening neighbors with a shotgun. In Florida, one TV reporter is arrested for DUI, while another is charged with carrying a gun into a high school. A Philadelphia news anchorwoman goes on a violent drunken rampage, assaulting a police officer. In England, a newspaper columnist is arrested for killing her elderly aunt.

    Unrelated incidents, or mounting evidence of that America’s newsrooms have become a breeding ground for murderous, drunk, gun-wielding child molesters?

    Statistics of Shame

    Accounts of media psychopathy, while widespread, have until now been largely anecdotal. In order to provide a more focused and systematic study of the crisis, Iowahawk researchers set out to identify and tabulate criminal arrests and convictions of current and former journalists. While by no means comprehensive, this 10-minute project yielded a grim picture of a once-proud profession now in the grips of tragic, drunk, violent, child-raping rage.

    Read on…

    I think we can all agree that Fairfax certainly has some serious questions to answer here.

  225. sdog

    You know it makes sense, JC.

  226. johanna

    Does ‘institutional’ include government facilities and services, I wonder?

    Yes, that’s been made pretty clear:

    It will look at the history of religious groups, sporting organisations, Scouts and Guides, schools and state institutions

    —————————-

    Oh, of course. It is a State responsibility, so no mud can stick to the noble Commonwealth, which is undertaking this inquiry. Well, there might be unfortunate incidents in the NT (for which the Commonwealth is responsible), but no doubt they will be written of as few, regrettable and requiring better co-ordination and service protocols.

    So, the pressure will fall on the States, which are overwhelmingly of the opposite political persuasion.

    Child protection is a State responsibility, so any failings will be sheeted home to them. They need to be careful, though – plenty of bad things happened under State Labor governments. Milton Orkopoulis and the rock spider in Queensland probably weren’t the only ones.

  227. “Actually I think that this is not primarilly directed at Abbott but a smokescreen to cover the Obeid / McDonald disclosures.”

    YOU THINK?

    The smell of this could knock the flies off a shit truck at 100 yards. The R.C. was conveniently announced just in time for the 6 o’clock news to knock the ICAC investigation into certain NSW Labor identities’ $100 million potential fraud from being the main story. That was about as coincidental as Hitler and 6 million dead Jews. This is just the thing to divert attention away from the government for about, well, until the next election.

  228. sdog

    “And those who have not read the report, Little Children are Sacred, its two authors visited 45 communities in the Northern Territory. They didn’t find sexual abuse in some of those communities, they didn’t find it in most of those communities, they found it in every single community; 45 out of 45. Think about that, the enormity of that for a moment.

    “Let me take you to Kalumburu. Kalumburu is up in the East Kimberleys. It is a town of about 300. There are only 90 males in Kalumburu. It’s isolated by the wet for a good part of every year. The wet will set in some time this month.

    Of those 90 men, in the last two months 15 have been charged with child sex offences. Fifteen out of 90 men. These are the charge sheets. Not one page, not two pages, not three pages, four pages.

    “They’re all an offence against a child, predominantly penetrating a girl or a boy under the age of 13. Who were these 15 men? They were the mayor, the deputy mayor, two other councillors, the police liaison officer, a truancy officer, two wardens.

    “What does that tell you? These are people of authority. These are the people that white fellas like me and bureaucrats turn to, who go to consult with about answers to their communities, who we give money and more empowerment to and we walk away saying, haven’t we done a good thing.”

    Just sayin’.

  229. Scapula

    The Gillard version of the Intervention – an interesting idea!

  230. CC

    The smell of this could knock the flies off a shit truck at 100 yards.

    100% correct Beer Whisperer. Announcing a Royal Commission on the basis of “recent allegations of child sex abuse” (Which? Where? Are we talking allegations of new, previously unreported and recent child abuse? Why is the federal government involved in this again?) with nothing but some vague notion of investigating ‘insitutional response’ stinks of new a new shiny thing to distract from the main game: Labor’s institutional, systemic corruption and failure.

  231. “Incidentally Leigh Sales tonight twice asks why the Commission does not focus solely on the Catholic Church because a “broader” enquiry might take too long?”

    Yes, justice is important, as long as it doesn’t take too long. What tripe. Is Leigh Sales defining the TOR for the government? Or is she doing so on behalf of McTernan?

  232. Jarrah

    “Yes, justice is important, as long as it doesn’t take too long. What tripe.”

    As a rule, justice delayed is justice denied. But in this case a broader inquiry is better, because more justice has the possibility of being done, despite delay.

  233. C.L.

    A child is almost certainly safer in the care of the Catholic Church than in the care of any given ALP pollie or ABC/BBC/PBS/NPR personality.

    In fact, the Labor Party is the only political party in the world to have chosen three leaders – three: Wright, Collins and D’Arcy – who were jailed for raping children.

  234. “of that abominable cult.”

    Hammy, you’re a bigot of the highest order. Now fuck off for wasting 30 seconds of my life.

  235. “No shit sherlock.”

    Who’s “No shit sherlock.”? Oh, you mean “no shit, Sherlock”!

    Sorry, Grammar Nazi hat off, tinfoil hat back in its rightful place…

  236. C.L.

    It’s hilarious – of course in a deeply evil sort of way – that lefties are now pretending to care about the lives of children. But they passionately believe in the ‘right’ to kill children, including via decapitation and disembowelment (hi, Emily’s List), and their cult leader (for that is no exaggeration) is Barack Obama who supports the killing of actually born infants. There should, then, be a Royal Commission into abortion, concentrating on all those fabricated ‘mental health of the mother’ slayings.

  237. NoFixedAddress

    I think the labor dirt squad is after 2 for the price of one…..

    1 is the Abbott of course but the 2nd is Pell.

  238. Dianeh

    NSW Dept of Education also has questions to answer. In the late 70”s, at my high school, out in a regional area, I know of 3 cases where male teachers were punished for indiscretions by moving them to our small high school. All 3 of them found new victims, with one being only 13.

    I knew of another 5 affairs as well. In one case the teacher was moved to another school. In the others either no punishment occurred, or the girl left school. In one case there were pictures and still nothing happened.

    I doubt our school was just ‘lucky’.

    I look forward to the investigation into Dept of Ed by th RC.

  239. Tom

    Gillard (and her creepy manservant McTernan) are loving this:
    1. It gives them a new way to feed their addiction to burning public money.
    2. It allows them to fulfil the Green-Left determination to trash Christian religion and promote the competition like Islam to maintain momentum in the white-anting of Western tradition – essential to the creation of the dreamed-of communist nirvana.
    3. Most importantly, it will become an endless source of press releases as a distraction from the government’s incompetence and the Monthly Disaster it creates – boats, corruption, waste, mismanagement, etc.

  240. Gab

    According to gillard’s Facebook page this is all Abbott’s fault and is blamed for not holding a RC before today, making Abbott complicit in the abuse.

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