What I’m interested in is hearing an intelligent argument from George Pell as to why there shouldn’t be a royal commission into his own institution.
Turns out Penberthy is engaged to Kate Ellis – a minister in the Gillard government.
This bit left me somewhat bemused:
“We’ll try and find out from the police how many cases of child abuse they have on their books – I believe it is thousands – and how many of them relate to Catholic priests and teachers. I suspect it will be very, very small indeed.”
It’s an extraordinary and arrogant request. What Pell is basically saying is that the cops should waste their valuable time tallying up the number of cases so he can justify his institution’s shameful inaction.
…
Even if the cops give Pell those stats – and they shouldn’t waste a second of their time doing so – his argument can be distilled down to the assertion that other people interfere with kids too. This from the self-styled moral guardian of the wider community.
The police shouldn’t waste their time giving out crime stats? A career in the Victorian Police awaits him. I would like to see those stats and an explanation, if the police know there are so many criminals running around why they haven’t yet been arrested, prosecuted, and jailed?
So here is the question to Penberthy – having just called for a Royal Commission into the Catholic Church, presumably to the exclusion of all other institutions, will all kids be safe or not? If not, then Pell’s question is valid.
Can someone do a “join the dots” diagram or family tree of MSM, union officials and Labor party members so we can plainly see how large this spiders web of political incest is?
It appears to me that the left have cemented themselves in power through marriage, affairs, and selective assignations that would put the Borgias to shame.
And I thought the family alliances in Days of our lives were hard to follow.
My understanding of the announcement is that the RC is not specifically on the RCC, but on institutions generally.
My general sense from stories over the years is that the RCC, in practice if not overt policy, has been more inclined to hide and shift abusers. I think the full story, whatever it is, ought to be brought out, and it ought not be confined to the RCC. I suspect that part of the reason we hear so much about the RCC is simply due to it being a very big institution.
Really? Tell it to the ABC and fairfax.
It’s pretty clear that through this whole saga runs the inference vis a vis paedos – clerics – catholics – tony abbott. Having said that, I welcome the exposure of any person, religious or otherwise, as a kiddie fiddler. They are most certainly not Christians.
Well said, Splatacrobat! It was only yesterday that I read where Greg Combet & ‘our ABC’ presenter, Juanita Phillips are now a number. How many spouses are Labor Ministers allowed to dump before they get referred to as ‘misogynist’, too?
I’d like to see a Royal Commission into teachers having sex with their students in public schools.
Pedro, I would suggest that the feeling that you have about the RCC is because of the constant attacks on this organisation by the Labor Party’s main stream media cohorts and their ABC. I have also read that there are large numbers of allegations against teachers in the various state education departments that have not been properly investigated. I do not see the media continuously bringing this up. Do you suppose that the Royal Commission, suitably stacked with leftists, will focus on these or expend most of their energy going after the Catholics. “First they came for the Catholics but I did nothing because I was not a Catholic”.
From the first paragraph of the SMH story about the RC
From the main article on the ABC news site – this paragraph was highlighted in the article
Its pretty clear that the RC is not confined to just the Catholic Church, but encompasses many organisations.
And it appears that a lot of people have missed this bit:
There is now bipartisan support for the RC.
Given that is child abuse and happened within the context of a school, reports of that would be handled by the proposed RC.
Someone produced a list like that some years ago, but it is long overdue for an update.
Penbo has kids does he not? Yet walked away from wife and family to be with Ellis a year or so ago. No harm in that apparently.
This maze is so complex and interlinked, we need a FBI whiteboard.
Don’t forget the academia and espically the schools of “journalism” in the higher education sector.
Um, there’s no shortage of Catholic leftists out there!
Why yes, Chris I have already read all that, I just don’t happen to believe everything I read as being fact. But you go right ahead and believe what gillard says without question.
Suuuuure…
Just like the much-ballyhooed media inquiry was not specifically meant to be a witch-hunt against NewsLtd but rather an inquiry into the Australian media in general.
LOL. How stupid do they think we are?
Was Orkopoulis a Catholic? Collins? D’Arcy? Wright?
Those who covered for & thus enabled them?
Just askin’.
I’m guessing the Royal Commission will tackle the Catholic Church as the first institution, right up until the election, with regular leaks to the media.
And the reason we hear so little about government schools?
There are still plenty of Catholics in the ALP. If this turns into an inquisition into the Catholic Church then how will ALP Catholics remain untainted while Abbott for example is smeared ? How does that work?
In this the mother of all unicorns, maybe someone should be asking “what has any previous Royal Commission actually achieved?
According to Brendan O’Connor this thing could take up to TEN YEARS.
That’s a complete farce and a gross misuse of taxpayer funds.
No matter what, Major anyone who says anything against this RC will just be abused as shielding those evil Catholics.
Gab, I wasn’t referring to whether you believe what Gillard said or not. With regard to whether the RC was about only the Catholic church or not you said:
Its very clear that both the ABC and Fairfax news sites have been reporting that the RC covers a lot more than just the Catholic church.
Initial resistance to an RC was bipartisan from Catholics amongst both the ALP and Libs. I think the suggestion that this just an anti-Abbott strategy is just a bit of a conspiracy theory and quite offensive to those who were abused and unhappy about how their abusers have been protected by people within various institutions.
“According to Brendan O’Connor this thing could take up to TEN YEARS
true, but it’s also politically motivated to taint Tony Abbott in the first instance, already it’s all about Catholics. I mean, why an RC now, at such a huge cost.
Like I said:
The victims of Orkopoulis, Collins, Wright, D’Arcy, and hundreds of government schoolteachers and Aboriginal elders were unavailable for comment.
Sexual abuse is enabled by the perpetrator’s personal, or institutional power to silence the victim and avoid discovery.
The vast majority of abuse happens in and around families, where personal power dominates. Then you look to institutions which by their function set power structures over the potential victims: schools, churches, the Armed Forces, correctional services, care institutions, sporting clubs – and so on.
Characteristically, Gillard has delivered no terms of reference for the RC – just a self-serving political statement. If the terms of reference are laid narrowly around churches and church pastoral care, read cynical political fix rather than intent to protect young people.
Faustus
Not just the terms of reference; but who they choose to run it. Not just that; but how they play it in the media.
Can you really see Gillard and McTernan passing up the opportunity to try to smear AbbottAbbottAbbott?
I agree Gab.
This modern Salem witch-hunt is designed to bring down the wicked Pell and by association Abbott and his Catholic apologists.
Yet I am willing to wager that evidence of sexual abuse by teachers and educators far outweighs those of the priesthood.
And if we are throwing around vast buckets of taxpayer cash why not have a Royal Commission into the Australian Union movement.
It’s not as if there is a lack of evidence.
“…his institution’s shameful inaction.”
Will a Catholic priest constitute a more powerful call to action than an indigenous uncle?
What do we really care about here? Children?
There is strong popular support for a Royal Commission, including many in the Catholic Church and other bodies charged with caring for/educating children, and even from Tony Abbott himself. Yet, from the conversations here, it would seem that the main concern is for the political impact it will have on your preferred Prime Minister. Indeed, that the whole thing is a leftist/ALP plot to make Abbott look bad and Gillard look good. Very little concern is expressed for the thousands of victims and allegations of system, institutional coverups. It looks callous and heartless. Yes it will have a political impact, and ALP forces may well make hay while the sun shines, but that doesn’t mean that the RC shouldn’t go ahead. If the lastest polls are any indication, Captain Catholic’s days as leader are numbered anyway.
I agree with Major Vegas, a total waste of time and money. What exactly is this RC going to prove? We know that abuse happens, has happened, and will continue to happen in all the institutions mentioned.
Is it being seriously suggested that efforts are not being made now to try to prevent these abuses? Are people just standing around going “oh..er.. shucks nuthin’ we can do”?.
And its not that this problem is unique to Australia, it happens all around the world. If the issue needs addressing, then have an expert panel review overseas and local responses to the problem and set out a list of measures to be taken. I would actually be surprised if this hasn’t already be done.
This RC will likely only be raking over the embers and not provide anything new. But it will be a handy diversion from the other ALP problems which may hit the headlines and help tarnish Abbott obliquely as well.
What else would you expect from an incompetent? She says that Roxon will be given the job of setting it up – incompetence squared.
This is flag flying. Gillard wants a reaction from the MSM (the ersatz representation of ‘the masses’) to enable a narrowing of the TOR, wherein she can be seen to be responding to the public’s will in the matter. To the current Catholic bash, expect to hear from the professional hand-wringers about the need to complete the RC quickly, as “the victims have already suffered enough, and shouldn’t be put through such a lengthy ordeal”.
Most abused children are abused by people other than Catholic priests. Labor and its media cheerleaders show “very little concern” for “the thousands of victims and allegations of system [sic], institutional coverups” unless their abusers were Catholic priests.
The victims of Orkopoulis, Collins, Wright, D’Arcy, and hundreds of government schoolteachers and Aboriginal elders are not politically convenient for Labor, and thus matter not.
How about proper disclosure by the journalists? So;
David Penberthy
“Disclosure-David is in a relationship with the Federal Minister for Employment Participation and engaged to be married to her”
Juanita Phillips
Caption to be displayed in respect of any federal political item
“Juanita Phillips is in a relationship with the Federal Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency”
Disagree on both counts even factoring in the political subtext.
For a whole bunch of reasons it’s a job which has needed to be attended to for decades. Making a start is important no matter how long it takes. What more important use of taxpayer funds is there than shining a bright light on people who get their kicks by robbing our children of their childhood?
Worth repeating: Kate Ellis’s ALP is the only political party in the world whose members chose no fewer than three leaders who were jailed for raping children.
This is classic wedge politics.
Each time the Royal Commission is mentioned publicly there will be veiled and implied guilt by association charges levelled at the Catholic Tony Abbott.
You can bet that McTernan had a large hand in constructing the narrative around these talking points for the hacks in the Caucus to slake their crusade.
I have often read that half, or most, of the problem has been that institutions (State, religious, irreligous) have thought “peddo’s” curable, treatable and an environmental sickness whereby if they were moved on they would be fixed up. This has been compounded in religious institutions that believe it not only curable but forgivable (as forgiveness is kind of central tenet of Christianity).
Modern psychology has taught us that it is not as easy to treat as we think; however these “advances in thought” have only been made in recent history.
By “RCC” I presume you mean the Catholic Church.
Yes, the Catholic Church educates, houses, assists, hospitalises and otherwise serves many tens of thousands more children than all of the other now failed churches combined.
Why did my treason allegations go?
Certain ALP and Greens MPs ought to be investigated for treasonous dealings with the PRC and USSR. They took inducements. Bring it on. Let’s have a royal commission.
Tapdog that may be true but why a Royal Commission? They are proven to be ineffectual in delivering sound, lasting judgement and change.
What will it achieve? More laws? More regulation? And to what end? A massive Commonwealth liability for compensation?
The ALP love Royal Commissions. Federally Hawke and Keating implemented 12 during their term in office.
Beyond the braggadocio and moral posturing did any of them change anything?
One does have to wonder if any party whips will be called before the commission to see if any pollies have rumors around them?
This will turn into a never ending gravy train for lawyers, see thousands of false claims lodged (for the compo)against deceased parties, and be about as rigorous as an medieval Auto-Da-Fae.
The proper mechanism should be individuals prosecuted and jailed.
Any attempt top shield abusers should be prosecuted as well, as individuals.
This smacks of declaring guilt, then looking for targets.
Can someone do a “join the dots” diagram or family tree of MSM, union officials and Labor party members so we can plainly see how large this spiders web of political incest is?
You’d have to join a lot more dots to get the big picture there. Relationships between the media and the government are de rigueur. What’d be really interesting is how this all plays amongst the ALP’s Catholic Right and the clergy.
Still the Church has had some, um, problems with this sort of thing. And they’ve, um, not exactly been stout ethically speaking. Something someone wrote about hubris? Forget what.
Right. Like all other churches, state institutions and – we now learn – the Australian military.
This last scandal is very curious: possibly the worst child sexual abuse in our history, the crimes were committed within an institution run almost exclusively by protestants, all of whom were ‘free to marry.’
As one who grew up in an instution, non carthlic, I see this as a “get the Catholic Church” exercise. Just ask any child who was in a state institution in the 50s 60s and 70s how they were treated and they will break down.
Right. Like all other churches, state institutions and – we now learn – the Australian military.
Hey man well done. You’ve identified the evil things of the world in one sentence.
yahoo home pages was running with “Paedophile priests with a picture of a crucifix, right next to “Abbott’s popularity slump” or some such.
that’s basically what McTernan/Gillard had in mind, I expect.
My father worked in the rangeview (I may be wrong on the name) childrens home in Perth for a few years back in 1979.
It was dysfunctional then, with older children allowed to abuse the younger and some rather “off” staff.
He quit as there was nothing he could do to keep the job and keep his self respect.
One of the kids in the place is now one of the few in WA detained under “the key”, a serial rape machine.
We had a few of the kids for vacations, most were nice but damaged, I can see how easy it would have been for a manipulative adult to abuse them.
I did ask if anyone who knew of the tangled webs, splat, could start a graphic that tied together all the relationships several months ago. But as I tried to tie some of this up, I realised that the web was so entangled as to be almost impossible to coherently construct.
It would take a co operative effort from separate Cats to build this.
I’m afraid I’m just about ready to chuck it in (worrying about Australia and its politics, that is).
This government is a live chance to get re-elected, thanks to a grab-bag full of dirty tricks.
And our mainstream media has been complicit.
Add to that the depressing USA result, and I think we’re all stuffed.
There’s no hope for us, is there? Anyone?
You only have to look at some of the early responses from victim groups to get a glimpse of the prospective value to them of holding a Royal Commission of inquiry. Many of these people will get to tell their stories publicly for the first time.
Hear your point about being ineffectual but some (eg Woods in NSW) have brought permanent change and all start with at least the potential to do so.
BTW over at Crikey it is already
” Why a royal commission into Catholic child abuse is necessary ”
Seems the agenda there at least is pretty straight forward.
Meanwhile Julia and slush fund disappear?
How about an RC on ALP? Much abuse of power there.
South Australia – flashback to August…
Atheist state insists on seal of the confessional in South Australia:
Abuse children were ignored by a welfare worker.
This is at the heart of the problem. Many people have tried this but found themselves up against internal institutional processes designed to protect reputations, missing/transferred witnesses/perpetrators etc. Let alone allegations of police being less than institutionally diligent in investigating the RCC, for example.
How about this
Probably won’t pass moderation…
Penburthy is further invested inthis rubbish than he lets on.
he was a student of Malcolm Fox and actually testified on his behalf at the trial where Fox was convicted of four counts of unlawful sexual intercourse.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/former-students-praise-convicted-sexual-offender-malcolm-fox/story-e6frf7l6-1226121149725
This is ok apparently because Penburthy liked him. He even allowed a pathetic apologist piece on The Punch to garner sympathy – Penburthy is The Punch editor.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/this-is-one-of-the-hardest-columns-ive-ever-written/
If you follow The (lamentable) Punch you will know that is very anti-christianity with the chief hater Tory Shepherd laying into religion at every opportunity. Shepherd use to have “atheist” prominently displayed in her twitter title but took it down after I called her out on it.
Penburthy will do anything he can to deflect from the teaching profession to protect his former relationships and there is no doubt as editor of The Punch he has allowed a anti-christian anti-catholic group of staff writers to work away with a relentless neagtive campaign.
He is very much biased towards attacking Christianity as a ideological crusade and it shpuld be called out for what it is.
I hate conspiracy theories but there is no doubt there is a cultural wart being waged and his relationship to Ellis is germaine. The attacks in The Punch on St Johns college are merely another avenue that is being explored.
But never lose sight of the fact when one of his own “people” that he clearly states Fox was is accused and found guilty of illegal sexual activities with minors that can be excused.
He is pathetic and shallow. His motives and methods are obvious, hypocritical and border on obsessional.
This whole war on Christianity and Catholicism needs to be called out.
Frank Brennan on Lateline last night, acknowledging that it looks likely that there is a disproportionate number of Catholic clergy involved:
Slim
I see your point, but why is a failure of the police and justice system not a call to reform those institutions as well (it might happen).
My point is individuals did the actions, individuals (police, lawyers, organisation officials etc) covered up for them.
The job of the law is to see those individuals named, tried and punished.
Heres a hypothetical, which Im sure will be happening.
There is going to be a push for compensation as a group for people claiming abuse.
Some individuals will lodge false claims using the names of deceased (but mentioned in the Commission) individuals.
Thats yet another reason why “bulk justice” may have perverse outcomes.
I dont think there have been many Catholics in the ALP since the 50s and the DLP split. It was the residual home for tribal ‘non religious’ Catholics for a long time, but those not truly offended by socialist atheism. But the circle has turned, the ALP is now anti Catholic simply because it is way over on the Left. Its also anti Jewish and anti Protestant, but the Catholics are their biggest perceived and traditional threat, Bob Santamaria for eg.
Keith it must be clear to all that the ALP slimes and smears with impunity, the hypocrisy is part of the rules governing media relations in Australia.
One isolated example: She apparantly successfully slimed Abbott as a misogynist, while simultaneously defending a man for skiting about his repulsion for female genitalia. She is world famous for smearing Abbott, not her hypocrisy.
Well it starts with a RC into institutional response to child abuse. Deal with the consequences when the findings are known. Some think it is too broad as it is.
The terms of reference will not be set until next year at least. No one will be in a witness box for a year after that. In the meantime it will be Catholic, Catholic, Catholic. As it was last night with Sales and Alberici. Jobs done.
Only one man with a big enough brain for the job – Barry “Spaghetti and Meatballs” Jones.
Heres a big WA state run abuse scandal, only being resolved about now.
“An investigation into the sexual abuse of young boys at state-run regional hostels in Western Australia has found a number of authority figures failed to act, after they were informed of the allegations.”
But then it leads to this story..
“An inquiry led by the retired Supreme Court judge Peter Blaxell found the failure of authorities to act allowed abuse at state-run hostels to continue over several years.
The Government apologised and offered ex gratia compensation of up to $45,000 which victim Todd Jefferis says is a ‘disgusting’ amount.
He says it is far from adequate.”
Now multiply this around Australia and revise any monetary sums you may have seen bandied around.
Well well well.
Hey, how come Alberici didn’t ask luvvie Fr Brennan – after Fr Bob, the left’s favourite priest – why nearly 90 percent of child abusers in Catholic institutions were homosexuals?
TFM, that was the scandal to which I was referring yesterday. I knew one of the victims.
I have been listening to the cricket on the radio today and every ABC news bulletin has not just been lead by a story about “Catholics” and the RC, the very first word of each bulletin has been Catholic eg: “Catholic Archbishop George Pell etc”
Now that the Left and their department of propoganda have set the narrative, watch the rest of the lemmings jump over the cliff behind them.
tbh
One of dads mates was there as well but was fortunate enough not to attract the attention of the scumbag.
It may be frivolous but dad teases him “Fuck you must have been an ugly kid”
I have great sympathy for the victims and am glad to see their abuser jailed.
Id also expect/hope to see careers ended or charges laid against the cover up crew.
But Im less enamored of the compo coming from the public purse.
Yep according to the ABC network, Facebook, Fairfax and Twitter Catholics are all guilty, Abbott and Pell the ringleaders only thing left is for them to pass the sentence,
The hate being drummed up against Catholics by the media is abysmal. How long before a church gets firebombed during Mass on Sunday?
That’s eactly what Gillard/McTernan wanted, Gab. It’s working really well for them. They must be overjoyed.
The Catholic Church has only itself to blame.
Err, sorry folks; but my impression is that, given some extraordinarily damaging specific allegations concering the Catholic Church that have been aired in the media over the last few months, most people are going to welcome the Royal Commission, and not consider it to be highly politically motivated.
Given that Abbott did a pre-emptive statement of support for the RC, and that the whole issue is one that I don’t think he has ever been involved in commenting on in any respect, I don’t think there is actually reason to think it has significant potential to harm him politically. (I said this morning that people might think Labor was more likely to do this good thing rather than an Abbott led government, but that is not going to be a long lasting consideration.)
“why nearly 90 percent of child abusers in Catholic institutions were homosexuals”
You mean, why were victims more likely to be boys, a different question. And the answer is probably that they abused those they had access to, which were mainly boys.
Multiple studies have found that gender is a secondary consideration (if not immaterial altogether) for p*dophiles. This makes intuitive sense – male homosexuals are attracted to masculine characteristics, which are precisely those lacking in prepubescent children.
Are they going to include FGM by Islamic institutions?
Don’t be racist, Splat. This is about Catlicks!
” I think the suggestion that this just an anti-Abbott strategy is just a bit of a conspiracy theory and quite offensive to those who were abused and unhappy about how their abusers have been protected by people within various institutions.” – Chris
Right. Because, of course, there is no way that any honest or rational person could both feel sympathy for the victims and yet still question the motivation or purity of heart of politicians who choose to make an issue of such things only under certain circumstances. Apparently they are mutually exclusive concepts in your moral and intellectual universe.
This is typical of the way in which PC shaming is used to shut down legitimate debate. Because the cause is ostensibly noble and incontestable, protecting children, then we all must agree with the appropriateness of any particular response and never question the innate goodness of those who choose to drape themselves in the flag of the cause.
The timing and scale of this strikes me as odd. Little new evidence appears to be brought forward other than one police officer making unsubstantiated claims, then suddenly we have a national royal commission. Moreover, a lot of past cases of sex abuse by clergy and other institutions have already been exposed and dealt with by the legal system. What preliminary evidence is there to believe that vast amounts of new evidence is likely to be uncovered, such that it would justify the resources required of a nationwide royal commission? It appears to be a rather hastily made decision, without much real planning and consideration.
Thanks Jannie good point. The asymmetric press gallery will be a huge assist.
Notice how the debate has already polarised into Catholic Church against the rest? It’s not even 24 hours later.
I don’t know if anyone else has brought this up, but isn’t the ALP the home of political Catholicism in Australia? So if the ALP attacks the Catholic Church wont the ALP lose masses of votes to the Libs who have a Catholic leader?
We presume they’ve thought of that, done the numbers, the risk analysis and focussed it, Rocco.
Joe de Bruin, what do you think about this ?
That the Catholic Church is receiving the lion’s share of attention is hardly surprising. RC priests have become a global symbol of p-filia for standup comics everywhere. People get it. As others have said here in other contexts, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
“I don’t know if anyone else has brought this up, but isn’t the ALP the home of political Catholicism in Australia? So if the ALP attacks the Catholic Church wont the ALP lose masses of votes to the Libs who have a Catholic leader?” – Rococo Liberal
While Catholics traditionally favoured the ALP, they have been gradually moving towards the Coalition parties for decades now. I am sure that nowadays most traditional Catholics who attend church regularly would tend to vote for the Coalition (although there would still be a lot of more liberal and secular Catholics that would lean to the left, but they are unlikely to vote on the basis of the church).
It is unlikely that being seen as anti-Catholic will lose Labor many votes. Yet anti-Catholicism is a popular cause among a larger section of the population, including most left-liberals, feminists, disillusioned lapsed Catholics, some Protestants etc.
I have no doubt ALP strategists have worked out anti-Catholicism will win more votes than it will lose, and allow them to slime Abbott in the process. This has McTernan’s grubby paws all over it, coming off the back of the ‘misogynist’ smear.
Perhaps a family tree of think tankers would also be useful.
You’ll find some bedfellows here: Think our political debate is tanking? Ask the s(c)eptic celebs
The point about Penberthy is a good one. I made a similar point onthe open forum. Do you know that Ed Cowan dedicated yesterday’s innings to and shed a tear about the cricket coach who taught him ‘discipline’ all gushed in the SMH without any trace of irony whatsoever.
You can see the denialism we’re up against.
O’Farrell is a dog, who throws his faith to the dogs:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/defiant-cardinal-george-pell-says-sex-abuse-royal-commission-will-separate-fact-from-fiction/story-fndo2j43-1226515895912
“I heard Cardinal Pell today indicate that the bonds of the confessional remain intact,” an emotional Mr O’Farrell told Question Time.
“And I understand that as a Catholic, not a particularly good Catholic, that that is an important sacrament within my church.
“But I struggle to understand that if a priest confesses to another priest that he has been involved in paedophile activities, that that information should not be brought to police.”
What’s the struggle to understand? The confessional is sacrosanct.
Even if he doesn’t get that theologically, which he would if he were a Catholic, practically the ramifications would be that no one would confess reportable offenses.
Why would you confess reportable offenses if you knew the priest would report you?
Conclusion, O’Farrell is a dog.
I’m sick of these so called Catholic politicians playing on the political benefits of their baptism, whilst not standing by one iota the fundamental tenets of our faith.
O’Farrell is a dog, who throws his faith to the dogs:
“I heard Cardinal Pell today indicate that the bonds of the confessional remain intact,” an emotional Mr O’Farrell told Question Time.
“And I understand that as a Catholic, not a particularly good Catholic, that that is an important sacrament within my church.
“But I struggle to understand that if a priest confesses to another priest that he has been involved in paedophile activities, that that information should not be brought to police.”
What’s the struggle to understand? The confessional is sacrosanct.
Even if he doesn’t get that theologically, which he would if he were a Catholic, practically the ramifications would be that no one would confess reportable offenses.
Why would you confess reportable offenses if you knew the priest would report you?
Conclusion, O’Farrell is a dog.
I’m sick of these so called Catholic politicians playing on the political benefits of their baptism, whilst not standing by one iota the fundamental tenets of our faith.
C.L., just because there is an elephant in the room does not mean others have any obligation to acknowledge it.
“You can see the denialism we’re up against.”
Denialism of what?
Comedians also used to bag women drivers etc. Did they stop because women got better?
I’m guessing they did as I haven’t a heard a woman driver joke in a long time. I can remember seeing at least two Catholic priest young boys jokes/allusions in the last couple of months. It’s as cliched as Jewish mothers and chicken soup jokes used to be in the Catskills. My point being, it illustrates how pervasive the public perception is. It is in the interest of the RCC in Australia, at least, to clear the air and change the culture to where reporting to police by church officers is the expected norm.
They agree so they welcomed it.
Monk:
Dude. That wild-eyed whackjob Milne thought it up, Juliar scuttled away like a good little green lapdog to do her master’s bidding.
With those two geniuses behind it, it’s gonna be f**ked up six ways from Sunday from the get-go.
Either that, Slm, or it is acceptable in the inner city luvvie circles where comedians dwell to bag out Catholics, but no longer acceptable to pick on women drivers or make jewish/polish jokes.
This is from Australia climate Madness and reflects exactly what can happen when the witch hunt mentality meets the BBC “The UK’s BBC, otherwise known as the Biased Broadcasting Corporation, last week made an unfounded accusation of child abuse against a senior Conservative figure in its flagship Newsnight programme. As Boris Johnson writes, this was just too good to be true in the eyes of the lefty Beeb, and the victim, Lord McAlpine, was forced out of retirement to defend himself:
It was not just wrong: it was a slander more cruel, revolting and idiotic than anything perpetrated by the News of the World. The programme makers hadn’t taken account of the real anxieties about the reliability of their witness, as expressed by Sir Ronald Waterhouse, who led the inquiry into Bryn Estyn. They hadn’t shown him a picture of McAlpine. They hadn’t even put the allegations to McAlpine! Unbelievable! And why not? It was, as they say, a story that was too good to check. It wasn’t just that it showed Newsnight taking up the cudgels against paedophiles, after the embarrassment of the axed Savile exposé. It went one better. It pushed all the buttons. It was like a dream come true for any vaguely resentful and Left-of-centre BBC producer. It was a chance to pour unlimited ordure on a man who – in their book – jolly well had it coming. He is rich, he is a toff, he is a Lord, he is a Tory, and – joy of joys – he is an EX-AIDE TO MRS THATCHER.
More detail at this link (hope this comes thru..1st time linking!)
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/2012/11/warmist-monbiot-at-risk-of-defamation-claim/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=warmist-monbiot-at-risk-of-defamation-claim
No, I think you’ll find it’s a global phenomenon, not just inner city luvvies.
I agree Dot. Now that would be a good Royal Comnish.
It’s isn’t? Dusty, you’re either behind the 8 ball or you’re being willfully mendacious.
The Catholic Church has a formal policy in dealing with pedos. It simply tells the victims to immediately go to the police. The Church will also fire such priests.
And the 100 mil NSW Labor corruption scandal had nothing to do with it.
Jupes:
Naaah, of course not, Jupes. Entirely by coincidence, of course.
And looky at the Socialist Bullsh*t Service and Australian Bolshevik Collective ‘news’.
Not a solitary whisper about the ALP coal corruption and $60 mil for Fat Eddy.
yeah, I know… entirely a coincidence.
Incredible, isn’t it?
The Labor Party stole $100,000,000 from the people.
And on the day of that revelation a woman who earlier this year was illegally trying to send children to Malaysian torture and rape dungeons announces a Royal Commission into the Catholic Church.
Comedians and inner city luvvies do exist in other countries, Slim. They all absorb the same memes with whatever their chardonnay replacement de jour is.
The point is that Modern comedians all lack originality and only take on the ‘safe’ groups. So Catholics can be ridiculed for laughs, but not, say, muslims or incompetent prime ministers.
I think the ABC news I saw this evening was trying to be a bit more even handed re the Catholic angle to the RC.
Love to know at what institution the dude with Hetty Johnson was abused at though. The ABC didn’t mention it even though there was a conviction.
Lets not forget the $500,000 that went ‘missing’ from CFMEU Victoria for use on ‘safety’ that can’t be accounted for, or the $1,000,000 Missing from CFMEU NSW and when the accountants noticed it the CFMEU refused to allow forensic accountants to investigate.
Unions + ALP + ALPBC = Corrupt Cabal.
Yes, I hear the country is crawling with them.
[Honestly, it's near impossible to parody such stupid hyperbole adequately.]
Hyperbowl Steve, it’s Hyperbowl.
And pronounced with the strongest possible bogan nasal whine, Shitfer, as ‘hii-par-bo-wull’.
I hear, BTW, that it’s always missionaery position for Juliar and Tim.
Apparently, she only knows how to f*** up.
pimf
Don’t forget..
ALP: Bernard Finnigan, Terry Martin
and the ABC gets an honorable mention for Andy Muirhead
I wonder if Rudd, Goss, et al. will be summonsed over Heiner?
Moderated again???
What’s up with that Sinc? Am I persona non grata?
Skuter – sorry, no idea why you went into moderation
Sinc
Any reason the “elephant in the room”, has been omitted from this RC viz family members!!
No need Steve, it’s a self contained parody.
“What’s the struggle to understand? The confessional is sacrosanct.
Even if he doesn’t get that theologically, which he would if he were a Catholic, practically the ramifications would be that no one would confess reportable offenses”
And??? Here’s the thing, for your contention to be sensible you have to assume:
1 god would rather protect revolting criminals than children;
2 RCC doctrine is always immutable, despite the various changes in it over the centuries.
Remind me where in the gospels does Jesus say child abusers should be protected in the confessional, or even that confession is anything but bunk?
Pedro, I am not asking for your conversion and do not request you to believe in confession, I was addressing so-called Catholic politicians, specifically O’Farrell, who “struggle to understand” something that is not a struggle for any Catholic to understand at all.
Maybe O’Farrell struggles to understand transubstantiation, which would be fair enough, it is a mystery after all, but one wouldn’t then declare it null and void. It’s a defining principle of one’s adherence to Roman Catholicism, very much in the order of the sanctity of the confessional.
In your case, and in O’Farrell’s case, one need not address the theological basis of confession in order to “struggle” with the issue, one need only consider the practicalities: as stated, if priests were forced to violate the sanctity of confession and report crimes to the police, then *no one would confess the crimes!*
Why stop at paedophilia? Why not demand priests report other serious crimes, like murder and rape for example?
Whys stop at serious crime? Why not all crime, like fraud or theft? After all, we are obligated by law to report the facts of crimes that we are aware of to the police, otherwise we become accessories after the fact, a criminal offense itself.
So, it’s all disingenuous on O’Farrell’s behalf. He doesn’t believe in confession, and is therefore not a Catholic. He should stop referring to himself as one.
No reason – the conversation more or less moves along what people want to talk about.
You forgot to add that Penberthy abandoned wife and kid to take up with Ellis. What is it with lefties and adultery?
Probably the same thing as with righties and adultory – thinking with the little head rather than the big head.
Well, that’s that then:
“I think that everyone has to obey the law that’s what everyone has to do,” Mr Abbott, a Catholic, said in Brisbane.
“There are various requirements on people if they become aware of sexual offences against children, those legal requirements must be adhered to.
“The law is no respecter of persons everyone has to obey the law regardless of what job they’re doing, regardless of what position they hold,”
This included priests, he said.”
…
But senior opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne said priests have a responsibility to report crimes to police even if the details are given to them in a confession.
Mr Pyne, a Catholic, said the laws of the nation come before canon law.
(http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/mps-on-both-sides-lash-comments-by-george-pell-that-the-seal-of-confession-extends-to-abuse/story-fndo2j43-1226516398723)
Political expediency trumps faith.
The confessional has become the focus, rather than the inept management of paedophilia within the Church since Vatican II.
I agree with “Father Kevin Dillon, of the St Mary of the Angels Catholic Parish in Geelong, said the media had played an important role in its focus on sex abuse in the Church.
“I believe most Catholics are probably rather grateful to the media for a focus on something which they find enormously shameful and greatly distressing,” Father Dillon told ABC Radio.
“I think the media has played a very important and very positive role in all of this.”
The way my Church has handled this matter is incomprehensible. So appalling has the management been that we are now getting these agenda driven calls to have the sanctity of confession violated.
Paedophilia and the act of reconciliation have no connection. From what I have read, and what I now through experience, these matters have been brought to the Church’s attention time and again, all *outside* confession.
What a disgrace.
Furthermore, and this is a point I made to CL years ago, if anyone confesses a crime such as paedophilia, absolution may be withheld on condition the penitent make a full confession to the authorities, and serve full restitution on earth.
In any case, these crimes have not come to our attention via confession. They have been readily known for decades now. And they were known by the Church hierarchy *outside* of confession.
Confession and celibacy are red herrings that serve another agenda. That agenda cynically using paedophilia to further their cause.
Further reflections on those Irish Priests
There is an agenda I am sure. And I would be very disappointed if Cardinal Pell were to back down on the confessional is inviolable rule. Not that I think he can. There is no such thing as a catholic teaching for Australian catholics and a different teaching for catholics elsewhere. Pell should just say to the politicians of both persuasions and the media chattering class this. Look, the priests are bound by oath to adhere to the teachings of the church, one of which is this confessional secrecy. If by the laws of the state, they are now compelled to disclose in a Royal Commission, my instructions to them would be to refuse, and if in so refusing, they are imprisoned, so be it. Down the centuries, and even in this day and age, in many countries, priests and religious have been persecuted for their beliefs, so what’s new. So if modern and secular Australian seciety of this 21st century think its values are such that priests should be packed off to jails for acting in accordance with their Catholic belief, so be it. Let’s have TV scenes of 70, 80 year old priests handcuffed and sent to jails.
My faith and respect for the church would rise even more. Once again, I would be comforted this is one institution that does not bend with the wind, and the value of the times. Or what the media thinks is fashionble, or in tune with the times.
Half right. Millstones and paternosters.
Joe – email that to Cardinal Pell, it would make a good rebuttal.
Never mind Penberthy engaged to Ellis. How about Chris Uhlmann MARRIED to a LABOR MP Gai Brodtmann and yet fronting/reporting on Canberra issues for supposedly the nations most highly regarded current affairs show on TV, the 7.30 Report. I often wonder how many votes the Coalition loses because it refuses to stand up to outrageous institutionalised political bias against the Coalition itself by the ABC and not just in it’s news/current affairs area. Uhlmann supposedly hit Abbott with his appointment in a phone call and Abbott said, in effect, “congratulations’. Given Abbott and co are supposed to represent the beliefs of Coalition voters, why does his opposition accept Uhlmann and the front person, Leigh Sales who has an uncanny facial resemblance to a younger Gillard. The ABC management would have you believe that was purely a coincidence when Sales was appointed. Yeah sure. Sales has on numerous occasions exhibited hostility bordering on hysteria when interviewing Abbott. TIME TO PRIVATISE THE ABC AND SBS, MR ABBOTT, AND USE THE FUNDS TO PAY DOWN LABOR DEBT. Then the likes of Sales and Uhlman could re-apply for their jobs in a real world media company.