Catallaxy Files

Australia's leading libertarian and centre-right blog

The morality of the free market

39 comments

And do note the example of Say’s Law right at the front where the mown lawn is exchanged for food and drink. Demand is created by supply. This has been replaced by Obama’s Law: from each according to his ability, to each according to his vote.

Written by Steve Kates

November 16th, 2012 at 11:00 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

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39 Responses to 'The morality of the free market'

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  1. Say’s Law is irrelevant in the short term in a monetary economy.

    sdfc

    16 Nov 12 at 11:04 pm

  2. Brilliant, i love the idea of the 20 dollars as proof you served someone and deserve service yourself.

    thefrollickingmole

    16 Nov 12 at 11:20 pm

  3. What happened to the idea of no more election posts from Steve Kates?
    Obama won the election.
    Romney lost.
    The next election is in 4 years.
    Get over it.

    SteveC

    16 Nov 12 at 11:21 pm

  4. Shut up stevec, you whiny little b-.

    If you don’t like the post, don’t bother commenting on it like you think you’re passing on some glorious insight.

    Gab

    16 Nov 12 at 11:23 pm

  5. The ‘bail-out’ of the American car manufacturers and banks was a direct attack on the market ability of Australian car manufacturing and banks. Not that you heard that from our Government. By not letting GM and the banks fail, our industries are put under non-market pressures.

    Amfortas

    16 Nov 12 at 11:23 pm

  6. Seems so obvious that the motives of those who still can’t allow it to penetrate their thick skulls has to be seriously in question.

    Ant

    16 Nov 12 at 11:32 pm

  7. Steve, ignore the Obama comments. Just watch the video.

    Dangph

    16 Nov 12 at 11:43 pm

  8. SteveC, talking about getting over it. So you won the election. You dont control who posts what.

    If you dont like something, switch it off. Why do you want to stop other people from watching?

    Jannie

    16 Nov 12 at 11:44 pm

  9. Elegantly said, Walter Willams.

    Case in point for government interference bearing no fruit: Ford layoffs despite the bailout money earlier this year. All that taxpayer money for nothing. Zip. No return on investment.

    One wonders why a government would hand over taxpayer money when

    In Australia, Ford has experienced seven straight years of decline and sales of the Falcon are at all-time lows.

    Gab

    17 Nov 12 at 12:17 am

  10. What happened to the idea of no more election posts from Steve Kates?
    Obama won the election.
    Romney lost.
    The next election is in 4 years.
    Get over it.

    Fook off, Hitler.

    Abu Chowdah

    17 Nov 12 at 12:20 am

  11. Say’s Law is irrelevant in the short term in a monetary economy.

    Say’s Law states that in order to consume, one has to produce.

    Example: Person A, everything else being equal, is starving, hence needs food.

    Solutions:

    1. Starve
    2. Steal from others
    3. Trade with others

    SO THINK ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!

    Louis Hissink

    17 Nov 12 at 12:26 am

  12. Say’s Law is irrelevant in the short term in a monetary economy.

    sdfc, by “monetary economy” do you mean an economy that uses money? As opposed to a barter economy? Sorry, I’m just not sure why you specified a monetary economy.

    And what do you mean by short term? The man in the video was mowing a lawn in the morning and that gave him the means to buy steaks and beers later in the day. That seems pretty short term to me.

    Dangph

    17 Nov 12 at 12:43 am

  13. Obama won the election.
    Romney lost.
    The next election is in 4 years.
    Get over it.

    Scratch a Lefty, find a fascist. Every. Single. Time.

    sdog

    17 Nov 12 at 1:08 am

  14. Ho hum, more simplistic right wing dogma on the Cat. Williams is correct as far as he goes, but he doesn’t go very far. Market exchanges rewards people according to others’ valuations of their output, as Walt neatly illustrates, but it fails to address inequities in the assignment of talents that are ultimately reflected in people’s outputs. Walt is talking about morality, but somehow ignores this key point, and a few others besides.

    William Bragg

    17 Nov 12 at 1:35 am

  15. “sdfc, by “monetary economy” do you mean an economy that uses money? As opposed to a barter economy?”

    AFAIK, he means an economy with fiat currency and banks who create credit.

    Jarrah

    17 Nov 12 at 1:54 am

  16. inequities in the assignment of talents

    Some people are smart, work hard, and express their intelligence fully. Others are not so smart but still work their arses off and prosper.

    Some are lazy as all fuck regardless of their intelligence.

    The first group is worth more than the second and deserves a greater reward. Get over it.

    perturbed

    17 Nov 12 at 2:52 am

  17. “inequities in the assignment of talents”

    Poor comrades, they lust to be appointed as the official handicappers where those without my talent and foresight get to confiscate my work product as a human right. Good luck with that, the flip side is all that talent and foresight is also directed at avoiding that outcome.

    Alfonso

    17 Nov 12 at 7:10 am

  18. Good video. I want to know where I can buy 10lbs of steak and a slab for $20. Any suggestions?

    sfw

    17 Nov 12 at 7:11 am

  19. Say’s law is irrelevant fullstop.

    catnip

    17 Nov 12 at 7:15 am

  20. Solutions:

    1. Starve
    2. Steal from others
    3. Trade with others

    SO THINK ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!

    4. Grow some for yourself and sell the excess

    Tapdog

    17 Nov 12 at 7:52 am

  21. Good video. I want to know where I can buy 10lbs of steak and a slab for $20. Any suggestions?

    My thoughts exactly. Perhaps this country really is a high cost producer of steak and beer?

    More importantly, the Prof is totally wrong to say that the government giving a bailout to the bank, or giving foodstamps, is taking money from someone else. The government may well borrow the money to give to banks and foodstamp recipients. i.e. they issue paper to someone who is happy to receive it as a store of wealth and gives the money to someone who is happy to receive it to keep them in steak and beer.

    And this, boys and girls, is why we are where we are. It is an easy path for governments to take. They issue bonds, or print money, give it out and no-one complains.

    Like a good leftist, I have ignored the gross productivity sapping inefficient mis-allocation of resources this creates, as well as the significant opportunity costs involved. It actually makes things worse in the long term. But, as Keynes said……

    Will

    17 Nov 12 at 8:03 am

  22. Guest SteveC for ShutUp! pitches into the loungeroom of the Cat, sprawls over the couch, puts his feet on the table and screams his childish demands:

    What happened to the idea of no more election posts from Steve Kates?

    I do ask what value SteveC is providing to dialogue at this site?

    Token

    17 Nov 12 at 8:09 am

  23. Good video. I want to know where I can buy 10lbs of steak and a slab for $20. Any suggestions?

    Ever been to the low tax, low regulation, tort reformed states of the US?

    Only in Australia & Europe do people willing pay insane premiums on low cost goods so staff who provide appalling service can be paid exclusive of performance.

    Token

    17 Nov 12 at 8:12 am

  24. “Ever been to the low tax, low regulation, tort reformed states of the US?”

    Nope, never had the money. Are things really that cheap over there? Soon I won’t be able to afford a cheap cask of wine because somebody somewhere says it’s bad for me.

    sfw

    17 Nov 12 at 8:35 am

  25. Nope, never had the money. Are things really that cheap over there? Soon I won’t be able to afford a cheap cask of wine because somebody somewhere says it’s bad for me.

    With a bit of saving most people can afford to go to places like Indonesia, Phillipines or China.

    You can get a 1L bottle of good quality beer in China for 50c. Accom is cheap. The food is great and is better than the arrogant treatment we have to put up with in Oz.

    Token

    17 Nov 12 at 8:56 am

  26. I’m interested in this concept of “inequities in the assignment of talents that are ultimately reflected in people’s outputs”.

    What is talent?

    Who assigns talents now?

    How should they be assigned?

    How can they be assigned? (I’d like to be a great pianist, where do I apply?)

    Is William Bragg’s comment complete bullsh!t?

    Eddystone

    17 Nov 12 at 9:20 am

  27. Token, I just was looking at Texas supermarket ads.

    Some meats are extraordinarily cheap there, but the cheapest steak ad i saw was about $7 or $8 a pound.

    Pork and turkey, though: if our farmers have a hard time making money, you have to wonder what returns meat producers there can possibly be making.

    And maybe a food tax would help with obesity. :)

    steve from brisbane

    17 Nov 12 at 9:24 am

  28. I was reading an article about creative businesses the other day, and realised it was an [unstated] version of Says Law.


    The user is king. It’s a phrase that’s repeated over and over again as a mantra: Companies must become user-centric. But there’s a problem: It doesn’t work. Here’s the truth: Great brands lead users, not the other way around.

    Take Apple. One evening, well into the night, we asked some of our friends on the Apple design team about their view of user-centric design. Their answer? ?It’s all bullshit and hot air created to sell consulting projects and to give insecure managers a false sense of security. At Apple, we don’t waste our time asking users, we build our brand through creating great products we believe people will love.”

    The point is, demand does not lead to breakthrough products. Because the demand for these products do not exist. The product must be made first, and the demand develops after as people realise they want the product.

    Entropy

    17 Nov 12 at 11:03 am

  29. OK, so i tried to watch the video, but I get bored very quickly with people who speak that slowly.
    I do love the narky responses to my comment that SteveK can’t quite get over the fact that Romney lost the election, and had to sneak in an anti-Obama sledge.
    Hey Gab, If you don’t like my comment, don’t bother commenting on it

    SteveC

    17 Nov 12 at 11:23 am

  30. It’s not compulsory to comment on every thread stevec and given you’re not paying a dime to be here, the authors can post what they damn well please.

    It’s not even an election post, you dumbo.

    Gab

    17 Nov 12 at 11:24 am

  31. OK, so i tried to watch the video, but I get bored very quickly with people who speak that slowly.

    Somehow I imagined you would find a way not to learn anything. Another opportunity lost, such a pity. Oh well, carry on trolling then.

    Dangph

    17 Nov 12 at 11:32 am

  32. Seriously danph, it got boring very quickly. I’m sure I could have read the transcript much faster. He is defending the free market economy, I totally agree. He criticised large corporate bailouts, I totally agree. It was good to read in today’s paper that Joe Hockey has ruled out any more bailouts for the Australian car industry.
    SteveK’s anti-Obama sentiment was as irrelevant as it was predictable.

    SteveC

    17 Nov 12 at 11:40 am

  33. . It actually makes things worse in the long term. But, as Keynes said……

    …in the long run we are all dead…

    Thats o.k for someone with no kids or grandkids like Keynes he is not invested 100 – 200 years into the future.

    Max

    17 Nov 12 at 12:38 pm

  34. SteveK’s anti-Obama sentiment was as irrelevant as it was predictable.

    Not really. Walter Williams demonstrated the moral basis of the free market by thinking about it in terms of service to one’s fellow man. But Obama is a redistributionist. He wants to confiscate money from those who serve mankind and give it to those who don’t. That is, he is working against the morality of the free market. In that sense he is immoral, or at least anti-moral.

    Dangph

    17 Nov 12 at 1:04 pm

  35. Token
    “With a bit of saving most people can afford to go to places like Indonesia, Phillipines or China.”

    Who wants to go to those stinking places? Hot sweaty and full of unpleasant people. Anyway I’ve six kids and even though I manage a little bit of saving (as you put it) I couldn’t justify spending it on Chinese beer. I thought you were referring to somewhere in the US where steak and beer can be bought cheap.

    sfw

    17 Nov 12 at 1:27 pm

  36. SoB proves again his stunning simplicity.

    And maybe a food tax would help with obesity.

    or maybe not.

    Danish lawmakers have killed a controversial “fat tax” one year after its implementation, after finding its negative effect on the economy and the strain it has put on small businesses far outweigh the health benefits. …

    Products such as butter, oil, sausage, cheese and cream were subject to increases of as much as 9% immediately after the new tax was enacted.

    “What made consumers upset was probably that an extra tax was put on a natural ingredient,” said Sinne Smed, a professor at the Institute of Food and Resource Economics.

    Will

    17 Nov 12 at 3:58 pm

  37. Sfw, note the supermarket prices Steve quotes for Texas.

    Wow 6 kids, you have done well.

    Token

    17 Nov 12 at 5:55 pm

  38. The message is presented so slowly, SteveC, because right wing types think that the banal points they are making about the free market will bome as something of a revelation to “lefties” and that the messages need to be dumbed down so that lefties can understand.

    What is amusing in all this is not just Walter William’s simplistic nostrums but that also that many Cats seem to think they are something of a killer blow.

    Little do they know.

    William Bragg

    17 Nov 12 at 7:42 pm

  39. right wing types think that the banal points they are making about the free market will bome as something of a revelation to “lefties” and that the messages need to be dumbed down so that lefties can understand.

    Well, SteveC didn’t seem to get what Williams was saying even if it was dumbed down.

    What is amusing in all this is not just Walter William’s simplistic nostrums but that also that many Cats seem to think they are something of a killer blow.

    Little do they know.

    Dude, you have to address what was said. You have to say why you disagree. You can’t just pooh-pooh it. No one gives a shit if you just pooh-pooh something.

    Dangph

    17 Nov 12 at 7:59 pm

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