Selective amnesia or early-onset dementia?

And then there were five. Bill Clinton, Alan Bond, Carmen Lawrence, Brian Burke and now Julia Gillard seem to have frequent and convenient memory lapses. While it is possible that the 51 year Gillard has early-onset dementia, it is not likely. Selective memory seems a useful and common defence. It worked for Bill Clinton, why not for Julia Gillard?

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Samuel J has an economics background and is a part-time consultant
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83 Responses to Selective amnesia or early-onset dementia?

  1. Jimmtmacfernan

    I have done exhaustive enquiries ,and extensive research on this terribly debilitating disease of Prominent Liars and Criminals. It seemsit is prevelant among .big time thieves and alp politicians.My research indicates it is caused by fear of retribution!(jail)
    Starngely enough the Proven Cure Is Jail. , ! Strange aint it ?

  2. Jimmtmacfernan

    Further to this information I have named this affliction “The Bond Laurence Selective Memory Loss Syndrome Mark 64 ” ( it hasbeen used many times and is accepted by understanding members of the Law Trade as a legitimate get out of jail card

  3. Tel

    Hmmm, Australian Wheat Board, Iraq, Oil for Food, you can add a few other names to the “can’t remember” defence, and the other defence: “Email? Oh I don’t read them, too many to bother with.”

  4. Samuel J

    Tel – you’re comparing the sin of omission from the sin of commission. There is no evidence that Downer ever saw any of those cables (and I believe him on that) – I know how many cables are sent and the minister only gets a package of a subset. So the omission was the department not sending the cable.

    In the other examples, it is one of commission. It was Gillard’s signature on the document so by definition she saw it.

  5. Gab

    Sure, I believe gillard. I mean who could remember organising a loan and purchase of a house for a former boyfriend that resulted in one having to leave their job as a partner of a firm of solicitors. Sure, that would be easy to “forget”.

  6. Gab

    Thanks, Scrappy. Good to see I’ve got under your skin.

  7. Scapula

    No, Gab, I’ve got you deep in the heart of me.
    So deep in my heart that you’re really a part of me.
    I’ve got you under my skin.

  8. H B Bear

    Oh dear. So unoriginal, particularly after the misogyny rant last time.

    Is Hamish McSporran running out of ideas?

  9. Tel

    Sam, just pointing out that “convenient memory lapses” seem to be a common feature of our leaders.

  10. stackja

    ALP can do no wrong. Their critics can do no right.

  11. Jim Rose

    do you remember every bit of paper that crossed your desk from 20 years ago?

  12. GrantB

    From a commenter at Bunyip’s -

    “Is Julia Gillard the Lance Armstrong of Australian politics?”

  13. Gab

    Isn’t gillard purported to have an eidetic memory?

  14. sdfc

    I see you got sent to the naughty corner at JQ’s site Jim.

  15. Eddystone

    Gillard is looking pale and haggard these days.

    It’ll probably be a relief for her when the AFP come to drag her out of parliament in handcuffs. (Please let it be soon!)

  16. Tracey

    I’d like to see Gillard hooked up to a lie detector, but then she’s such a practiced liar she would probably pass with flying colours.

    Jim Rose @ 8pm – I’m not blessed with the best of memories but I’m pretty sure I would remember a document crossing my desk 100 years ago if it was part of a massive fraud I was complicit, if not actively involved, in.

  17. Eddystone

    I see you got sent to the naughty corner at JQ’s site Jim.

    He must be too sensible for them.

  18. Greg P.

    Who is this ‘Gillard’ of which you speak?

  19. Tel

    I should add that not only do our leaders have selective amnesia, but the Federal Court can successfully cause documents to vanish, thus displaying organizational amnesia as well. We have some very deep problems with accountability.

  20. bobby b

    do you remember every bit of paper that crossed your desk from 20 years ago?

    Of course not, but I sure as heck remember every time I committed felony-level fraud in conspiracy with my already-married boyfriend and then got canned out of my partnership in the Big Law Firm once word got around about what I had been doing.

    So, she was too corrupt for the lawyers to stand her. Says something.

  21. GrantB

    WTF does your little fetish have to do with Julia Tel?

  22. Scapula

    Do no crime and do the time!

  23. Tel

    Grant, gosh the topic at the top of my screen is “Selective amnesia or early dementia?” which is what I’m commenting on, maybe my browser is faulty, or maybe you just can’t read.

    I’m pointing out a fundamental problem of Australian governance, but if you think bagging Julia and proving your tribal credentials is more important then I guess it’s a free country.

  24. H B Bear

    I wonder if we’ll see Gillard leaning on Nanny Roxon QC shuffling down Collins Street on their way to the Abbott government Royal Commission into Union Administration like Bondy did with WA Inc?

  25. Pickles

    Documents are often useful in filling the gaps old age puts in memory. Better than plasticine even.

  26. C.L.

    Sure, I believe gillard. I mean who could remember organising a loan and purchase of a house for a former boyfriend that resulted in one having to leave their job as a partner of a firm of solicitors. Sure, that would be easy to “forget”.

    LOL.

  27. Pingback: the suspense is already killing me … | pindanpost

  28. NoFixedAddress

    I think I would be checking my SGH shares.

    Principal Activities of SGH,
    A consumer law firm with key practices in asbestos litigation, personal injuries litigation, commercial litigation, wills, probate and estate litigation, industrial and employment law, family law and advisory services.

    To think labor were attacking J Bishop about asbestosis!

    Makes you wonder what the current proximity of SGH and the PM…..

  29. dd

    Hmmm, Australian Wheat Board, Iraq, Oil for Food

    Tel.
    We have a monumental scandal going on – one of possibly historic proportions – and yet we get incessant “look over there” references to the AWB scandal. Unlike the current ones, it’s a scandal that is completely played out, and was done and cooked several years ago. There have been enquiries, police investigations, the whole shebang. it’s over.

    Admit it. You’re raising the AWB scandal to protect her. That’s your motivation. And it’s the motive of everyone else who keeps bringing it up. By raising the AWB it’s a way of disrupting conversation and commentary about Labor scandals.

  30. dd

    I’m prepared to be wrong about you, Tel, since you seem to be new around here and I don’t really know your political outlook.

    However, raising the AWB seems to have become a standard method of disrupting discussions about Labor’s scandals.

  31. Gab

    do you remember every bit of paper that crossed your desk from 20 years ago?

    She had problems with her recollection after two years, Jim. She couldn’t recall the loan and purchase of the property for her then bigshot union boyfriend. Lucky, there’s a paper trail.

  32. Scapula

    A foxified Seinfeld scandal – a scandal where the principal has done no wrong.

  33. blogstrop

    Scapula continues to be a random phrase generator.

  34. rtp

    How do you know that Scapula? All you can say is that there is not sufficient evidence to charge her of being involved in stealing money from unions.

    From that you say that she must be an angel.

    QED.

    FMD.

  35. Scapula

    If there were something to the scandal we would know it by now.

    Drip feeding pseudo-allegations of fact is a substitute for scandal.

    That’s what the Foxified right does so no one is surprised.

  36. Harold

    The original question was “did she know about the mortgage?”. In her response she’s now chosen to ask it as “can she recall certain documents passing her desk?”.

    I don’t expect her to be able to recall the latter. I do expect her to recall the existence of the mortgage if she was indeed involved in the paper work pertaining to it. Also, she was sleeping in the same bed as the guy who owned the house, FFS. (sleeping in that house I believe?)

    And to clarify, our primary concern is what she knew then because it appears she knew about the mortgage 1 year prior to the affair blowing up making it harder for her to plead ignorance. Secondly we ask what does she admit to knowing today, which only concerns her present honesty – already on shaky ground there.

  37. Infidel Tiger

    do you remember every bit of paper that crossed your desk from 20 years ago?

    Only the ones when I was committing fraud.

    No one remembers day to day business but we all remember only to viviidly when we cross the line.

    If a man gets a thousand head jobs from his wife, i’ll bet the one from her sister is slightly harder to forget.

  38. dd

    If there were something to the scandal we would know it by now.

    You’re absolutely right.

  39. rtp

    No Scapula, what it is is circumstantial evidence. When presented with circumstantial evidence you can a) say nothing – which makes it look like you don’t have an innocent explanation; or b) provide a plausible alibi – and if this checks out then it may well be case closed.

    But then what does it matter? If Abbott had done something a hundredth as bad you would be screaming blue murder wouldn’t you?

  40. catnip

    Everyone has selective memory, blackhole memory and amnesia on a continuum. It’s an endemic human trait. Everyone knows this first hand.

    Next.

  41. I am the Walrus koo koo k'choo

    Goneski!!

    Woohoo!

    So, who’s next for the swivel chair – Rudd II? Crean? Shorten? Smith?

    I’m hoping soooo hard that it will be Swannie. Can you imagine the electoral wipeout that will follow a Swan government?? It would be mammoth.

    Please Swannie – do it for your country!

  42. Up The Workers!

    It seems to me that the substantive difference between Bill Clinton and Juliar Gillard, is that Clinton was able to name ONE person in his Capital City with whom he allegedly did NOT have sex.

  43. candy

    I think she believes in her mind she has done nothing wrong. She’s convinced herself, people can do that, though it’s obvious to others they’re shonky.

  44. Leigh Lowe

    Very telling that the Crayfish has gone from bare-faced denial to the “do not recall” statement earlier today.
    She is shitting her size 18 undies.

  45. Steve of Glasshouse

    As the police would say, this is a document rich case, with more documents turning up seemingly every other day. It’s the cover up that does a lot of people in when the investigatory spot light turns on ..

  46. Gab

    people can do that especially easy for someone that has no conscience.

  47. Leigh Lowe

    “Does anyone remember every piece of paper which crossed their desk 20 years ago”
    Well here’s the thing.
    Sometimes ( fortunately or unfortunately) the paper can resurface to refresh one’s memory.
    And I’ll bet the Altona Droner made a few enemies at Slugs and Bugs. I will bet that anyone who questioned her competence or ethics copped the mysoginy speech, and perhaps her victims might have kept insurance copies of embarrassing documents upon her departure.

  48. Leigh Lowe

    “Does anyone remember every piece of paper which crossed their desk 20 years ago”
    Well here’s the thing.
    Sometimes ( fortunately or unfortunately) the paper can resurface to refresh one’s memory.
    And I’ll bet the Altona Droner made a few enemies at Slugs and Bugs. I will bet that anyone who questioned her competence or ethics copped the mysoginy speech, and perhaps her victims might have kept insurance copies of embarrassing documents upon her departure.

  49. 2dogs

    The difference with the AWB case is the fundamental difference between the ALP and LNP on corruption: while it can occur in both parties, only the LNP does something about it.

    Ruddock kicked off the Cole inquiry only one month after Volcker’s report.

    Joh’s deputy started the Fitzgerald inquiry, while Joh was out of state.

    But the federal ALP? Investigations kicked off into AWU? None. Or the HSU, for that matter? None. Just sweep it under the rug and hope everyone forgets.

  50. Leigh Lowe

    Infidel Tiger … the point about relative impact of felatio with the bride vs the sister is (ahem) graphic, but the point is well made.
    Ronny Biggs has probably had some train rides he recalls more vividly than others.

  51. Greg P.

    If a man gets a thousand head jobs from his wife, i’ll bet the one from her sister is slightly harder to forget.

    lol, quite..I guess.

    I like your point too Gab.

  52. Greg P.

    I think the point we are trying to make is you remember the decisions (and details of those decisions) from when your neck was on the line.

    For a Right-winger the profit on a big business deal/transaction.

    For a Labor pol we’ll go with the number of members you ripped off in a Union fraud.

    For a boot-licking Labor booster possibly the minutes it took you to microwave your best ever frozen pizza will suffice?

  53. I am the Walrus koo koo k'choo

    I think you’re right, candy.

  54. NoFixedAddress

    @Gab
    She couldn’t recall any more than being a ‘typist’ for the marxist mob she ran with at uni…

    It would be an interesting exercise for someone to detail the number of events that she has denied recalling….

    Isn’t there something in the Australian Constitution about this….

    I vaguely remember something about being fit…nah memory has gone…

  55. 2dogs

    Not remembering serious matters is generally a sign that an investigation is warranted.

    This is true regardless of whether the amnesiac is guilty or innocent.

  56. Rob

    Of course not, but I sure as heck remember every time I committed felony-level fraud in conspiracy with my already-married boyfriend and then got canned out of my partnership in the Big Law Firm once word got around about what I had been doing.

    So, she was too corrupt for the lawyers to stand her. Says something.

    Bobby, maybe you haven’t done enough frauds to start forgetting, Just how many married boyfriends have you had? Maybe, if you had enough of them it would difficult to remember all the details.

  57. Jim Rose

    Nick Griener has a similar and valid defence at the ICAC. He forgot a meeting out of the dozens that and every other working day.

  58. Podsnap

    I heard Smith interviewed by John Faine and I have to say the shrieking little bitch had him on the ropes.

    Smith knows so much about this stuff that he tends to get bogged down in the detail. He was unable to state the key allegations. On hearing that I reflected that I had read a lot about this but had followed the twists and turns of the story and had perhaps lost perspective. So I decided to do a quick recap.

    To me there are 2 key allegations here (yes, I know the whole thing was a scam and Gillard knew all about it – but there is no smoking gun on that and there won’t be) – the power of attorney and the fact that she apparently told the WA Govt that the entity was incorporated for a certain purpose whereas she knew it was a ‘slush fund’ (she is stuck with that as she used those words with the partners in the interview).

    I think the POA is not a bad go but it does depend on Blewitt who may fall apart (there is some circumstantial evidence on the file for that – but it probably won’t hang her).

    The more serious allegation (in substance – I know false witnessing is a big deal for lawyers) is the misrep to WA. But if the deceitful letter which she sent never turns up (WA say they don’t have it and S and G have apparently burnt it) then where does that go ?

    I would be interested in hearing what others have to say.

  59. Biota

    Gillard’s over-the-top reaction to the editor of the Australian was enough to raise my suspicions. If it were all such a simple misunderstanding it could have been cleared up way back then. She has fueled her own funeral pyre with her shifty responses.

  60. GrantB

    IT, quite so and I could tell you more. However it would be a distraction from the topic at hand. We need to return to Tel, food for oil and the AWB.

  61. Podsnap

    Lol Infidel tiger.

    A fraud with your boyfriend that ends up getting you sacked – very big deal – getting a head job from your wife’s brother calibre.

  62. Infidel tiger

    In early 80′s I stole a Matchbox Car from the local newsagent. I remember it clear as day. Particularly my father marching me to the news agency and demanding I tell them my crime.

    This frumpy rotund larcenous liar knows exactly what her actions were. May God have mercy on her soul.

  63. Scapula

    It doesn’t surprise me that you’re thief, IT, so why are you the one to throw the first stone?

  64. Jannie

    Her memory does not matter, there is just not much plausible deniability left, even the ABC is sensing that.

    This is professional leaking. She has powerful enemies in the Union movement, and S&G, and more documentation will come to light. Her most dangerous enemies are the people on her side of politics, not the opposition. And they are circling.

    And the fear in the media is subsiding. For example, Michael Smith on 2GB clearly stated that Julia Gillard lied in her exit interview with S&G. Thats a challenge which I suspect she will not take up.

    I wonder how she sleeps.

  65. Jannie

    Infidel Tiger, your father sounds like a good man. Thats exactly what my Dad did after I raided the neighbours apple tree. My penalty was to clean up all the rotten apples, but I was allowed to pick what I could eat.

  66. Gab

    Gillard’s over-the-top reaction to the editor of the Australian was enough to raise my suspicions.

    Yes, the first one being that she did not live in the Kerr Street house. The second being that the Australian referred to the AWU WRA as a “trust” fund instead of her preferred “slush” fund.

  67. daggers

    Biota – add to that the disappearance of documents from several locations. Put it all together and it couldn’t be any more suspicious.

  68. Gab

    She couldn’t recall any more than being a ‘typist’ for the marxist mob she ran with at uni…

    Yes and that turned out to be another lie convenient memory lapse.

  69. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Gillard’s over-the-top reaction to the editor of the Australian was enough to raise my suspicions.

    Agree Biota. This was the action of a frightened and hysterical woman.

    “Forgetting” is a similar reaction. As Candy suggests, Gillard may know, but not know, because it is all to easy for her to believe that she was not really implicated, even though she was right in the thick of it. Self-deception – it’s a major character failing, and another reason why Gillard must go.

  70. Scapula

    Whenever Gillard speaks to the Australian she should always bring a whip.

  71. C.L.

    Her whip is Joel Fitzgibbon and he doesn’t like her either.

  72. Lazlo

    Scapula: McTernan’s official bum boy on the Cat.

  73. HH

    The Annabel Crabbe story about shadow health minister Gillard accidentally copying in Health Minister Tony Abbott on an email admitting the Health portfolio was too much for her, then rigging an interview on a remote country radio station next morning so she could cover her tracks, says it all for me about 1) her incompetence in high level jobs 2)her preparedness to manipulate and lie to rectify her mistakes and 3)her utter naievete that the rigging wouldn’t be discovered and disclosed, even by lefty journalists.

    It also shows up Tony Abbott’s unwillingness to go for the jugular when he’s perfectly entitled to. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

  74. Lazlo

    HH She is out of her depth and she lies..

  75. C.L.

    Usually, I end up feeling for public figures under pressure during scandals – even ones I don’t like – because I can see the human angle and regret what they must be going through. Strangely, I don’t feel that re Gillard. Her orchestrated smearing and calumniating of Abbott as a man who hates his own mother, daughters and wife is the lowest thing I’ve ever seen in politics. Worse even than wacko numbskull Paul Keating calling Changi war hero Sir Alec Downer a coward. She is a hateful person and I don’t feel sorry for her.

  76. C.L.

    If a man gets a thousand head jobs from his wife, i’ll bet the one from her sister is slightly harder to forget.

    Unless you’re Jack Thompson.

  77. tbh

    Usually, I end up feeling for public figures under pressure during scandals – even ones I don’t like – because I can see the human angle and regret what they must be going through. Strangely, I don’t feel that re Gillard. Her orchestrated smearing and calumniating of Abbott as a man who hates his own mother, daughters and wife is the lowest thing I’ve ever seen in politics.

    Yep. I even felt the slightest twinge of sadness for Rudd when he was deposed. Gillard is a whole other kettle of fish though. She is so untrustworthy, dishonest and lacking in morals that I would actually enjoy seeing her carted off in a police wagon. She has brought the office of the PM into disrepute like really no other before her. Even Gough had his good points, but not Gillard. I can’t think of a single redeeming feature of her tenure as deputy or PM.

  78. Vicki

    Re: the protestations of government lackeys that no real blows have been landed on Gillard:

    Michael Smith,who is an ex-copper (again, superb judgement from JEG in shafting him!) has reminded critics that all fraud cases require a meticulous compilation of evidence and a precise narrative.

    This has now been pretty much accomplished – though the final pieces will be teased out by the escalating publicity.

    She’s gone.

  79. Leigh Lowe

    “This frumpy rotund larcenous liar knows exactly what her actions were. ”

    Exactly.
    She remembers all too well.
    That is why she is shitting her size 24 pants as we speak.

  80. Tel

    dd, what happened with the AWB is not “look over there”, it is looking in *EXACTLY* the same direction — that is to say, looking at corruption and watching people slip away from under the spotlight.

    The point about corruption is, it doesn’t matter who does it, nor what their political allegiances and motivations might be, if they get away with it time and again then, the rule of law is systematically eroded. Each new group is emboldened by the success of the last.

    While ever you want to play partisan games and claim that sitting there saying, “I don’t recall” was OK for one side, you are giving Julia exactly the precedent she needs for a neat little whitewash and dust hands of the whole affair. You are the one who is protecting her, not me. Think about that.

  81. Gillard is a classic Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    From DSM IV:
    It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
    Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
    Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
    Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
    Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
    Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
    Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

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