Not a fit and proper person … I will be waiting

I spotted this article in the Fin today about APRA’s new powers in respect of industry superannuation funds.  I won’t be holding my breath to see whether they name some trustees who are clearly out of their depth and have absolutely no investment expertise.  But we can hope, I guess.  In all likelihood, there will be some pathetic reasoning that because Unionist Bloggs has been a trustee of  an industry superannuation fund for some time, then he/she must have some expertise.

Australian Prudential Regulation Authority chairman John Laker plans to act against conflicts of interest and a lack of skills on superannuation boards after concerns some industry fund trustees lack financial experience, including former union officials.

Dr Laker said that under the regulator’s enhanced powers over the retirement savings industry, APRA would closely examine funds’ boards to check they had the skills and expertise to oversee members’ savings.

“We will continue working with super trustees on a one-on-one basis to ensure that they collectively have the skills and understanding that trustees need to have to look after money on behalf of their members,” he said when asked about industry super funds, which award half their board seats to union representatives.

“It is a journey for the industry on a range of fronts . . . and they will now be supervised on exactly the same basis as our other regulated industries and in all of those industries we spend quite a lot of time working with boards.”

There is a debate in the super industry about the level of appropriate expertise on industry fund boards, where trustees typically represent employer groups and unions in equal number.

This year APRA deputy chairman Ross Jones recommended industry funds appoint more independent directors because they had useful skills and would reduce the potential for conflicts of interest.

In Victoria, construction unions are preparing to dump Cbus as their default fund because they are unhappy it invests in projects run by Grocon.

“We have to make sure that all funds and directors are up to the appropriate standards,” said Fiona Reynolds, chief executive of the Australian Institute of Superannuation Trustees.

“APRA wants to see well-run boards and now they have the powers, we expect them to step in where they deem it necessary.”

In the past, APRA only had the power to issue guidance on best practice for super funds. Under changes which start in July, it sets prudential standards for the industry.

Super funds will need to ensure key personnel, including trustees, meet a “fit and proper” test, which must be reassessed annually, under the changes. Boards must have mechanisms to test trustees’ performance on an annual basis and have a charter that sets out trustees’ roles and responsibilities.

Super funds will be obliged to show they have considered their members in regard to performance fees, costs and the tax consequences of investment strategies.

The government is considering a Treasury recommendation to give APRA pre-emptive powers to step-in to remove trustees, directors or officers of super funds where they anticipated a breach of the law.

APRA has powers to wind up or investigate super funds, but these are only available after a disaster such as the $176 million collapse of Trio Capital in 2009. APRA will get the power to take legal action against trustees who fail to put the interests of super fund members first.

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114 Responses to Not a fit and proper person … I will be waiting

  1. blogstrop

    And everyone’s wondering why so many are going into cash? Goodnight, book time.

  2. Leigh Lowe

    I saw some clown in Fairfax the other day empathising with Bracks, Kearney et al about the political dilemma they face over the cBus/Grocon issue.
    Dilemma my arse!
    As trustees they have a single fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of members.
    No other consideration comes close.
    Daylight second.
    The end.

    Union/ALP trustees who do anything else may find a class action cleaning them out and some may receive a shot across their bows from their PI and Fidelity insurers sometime soon.

  3. John A

    “Fit and proper person” now there’s an expression which could be useful in relation to quite a few public offices.

    Taking care not to be misogynist about it, of course…

  4. .

    See here

    “Guest Post: Is Superannuation a socialist plot?” (by me).

    From this blog, written by Sinclair Davidson
    May 15th, 2012 at 9:50 am.

    Repeal the Superannuation Guarantee Administration Act.

    Simply worrying about the competencies of a few unionists sitting at the top copping kickbacks won’t change much at all.

    Now if we look at section 32C(6) of the amended Superannuation Guarantee Administration Act 1992 (Cth):

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/sga1992430/s32c.html

    A contribution to a fund by an employer for the benefit of an employee is also made in compliance with the choice of fund requirements if the contribution, or a part of the contribution, is made under, or in accordance with:

    (a) a pre-reform certified agreement; or

    (b) an AWA; or

    (c ) a pre-reform AWA; or

    (d) a collective agreement; or

    (e) an old IR agreement; or

    (f) an ITEA; or

    (g) a workplace determination; or

    (h) an enterprise agreement.

    Like John Leard said back in 1985:

    What we must recognise at this early stage of union involvement in the Superannuation issues is that control over the funds will provide unions and governments with considerable financial leverage. That leverage can be used to advance the cause of Socialism in Australia.

  5. Alice

    No Dot

    You idiot – who claims superannuation was a communist plot?
    You utter fool Supe was ramped in during and post Keating ebcause the idiot government wanted to be basically greedy. They didnt want to pay for the few poor bastads who couldnt get their act together for retirement.
    So instead they forced all Australians into this crackpot scheme for forced retirement savings (econ though the vast majority would have saved perfectly well).
    Since then every crow, vulture and government edifice has been icking like nghouls at our so called “savings for bretirement”.

    This is not a communist plot you stupid fool Dot. It was done and dusted and rammed down our throats by so called democratic governments n so called capitalist countries.

    What an idiot you really are Dot.

  6. .

    Shut up Alice.

    You don’t want the truth to be repeated because you are a communist, and you believe in state socialism before communist utopia.

    While browsing the library I found a book by John Leard – Australia, the Worst is Yet to Come. At pg. 74-75 ‘The ACTU’s Real Motives’

    There is grave doubt whether the whole thrust of the ACTU’s Superannuation deal is really in the interests of the members whose funds they will be administering.

    It is interesting to quote from a paper delivered to the 1981 ALP Special National Conference. The following was a statement made in regard to Superannuation:

    (NOW IS THE QUOTE FROM THE ALP CONFERENCE)

    There are a number of issues raised by the extension of Superannuation Schemes. Ultimately these questions include the examination of the investment strategies of those funds and their implications for industrial relations, employment and structural changes in the economy.

    Conflicts may arise from those investment decisions. For example, investment in highly profitable areas will maximise the member’s retirement benefits, but the social consequences of that investment may create a conflict.

    Obvious examples are investment in Uranium mining (pre three mines policy, methinks!) or firms which operate in South Africa.

    What we must recognise at this early stage of union involvement in the Superannuation issues is that control over the funds will provide unions and governments with considerable financial leverage. That leverage can be used to advance the cause of Socialism in Australia.

  7. Alice

    If I had balls (which I think I do) I would say to governments who want to tell us how to save for retirement
    Fuck off

    I can save and so can most people

    the whole idea of governments tciking their noses into how we save and sequestering part of what we should be being paid (wo we can actually save) STINKS.

    It is intervention, nanny statism and I dont need my hand held by fuckwits who lose half my supe savings. Im astonished that by now more Australians are nout outraged at the sheer con of it all.

    But for stupid Dot to turn round and say the Communists did it or the socialists did it is hust INANE?

    Wake up Dot and think properly.

  8. Alice

    You shut up Dot

    You want to turn everything into a communist plot when the thinking world needs people like you to actually think.

    You are stupid!

    Mandatory forced Super happened under both sides of government in capitalist countries in cahoots with finabcial institutions and its total bullshit.

    Wake up sunshine.

  9. Alice

    Fuck your commo obsessions Dot

    I was talking about leislatively forced super which I dont agree with.

    Do I have to spell it out?

    That makes me more captalist than you, you freaking idiot.

  10. C.L.

    Super funds will need to ensure key personnel, including trustees, meet a “fit and proper” test, which must be reassessed annually, under the changes.

    Is there a member of the Federal Cabinet who could serve as a trustee?

  11. JC

    Is there a member of the Federal Cabinet who could serve as a trustee?

    In a word, NO.

  12. Alice

    Not one of them CL !Not one.

  13. .

    I have just shown you that it was cooked up as a communist plot by the far left of the ALP.

    Just the facts Alice. Sorry to misattribute agreement with the idea to you.

    You don’t agree with it? Good for you. It is patently obvious if we removed the absurd taxation on property development most people could build up dynastic wealth without any form of a super fund. The overall income may not be fantastic but the yield be fine and overall costs of living would fall. It would also be a financial stepping stone, but also would reduce land prices or the costs of renting office space or factories in any other venture.

    Do not argue with the facts Alice. If John Howard went along with it, that’s on him, it doesn’t make it a good idea.

    I am sorry if I have caused offence. However, I suggest you unleash on Howard who went along with it and the far left of the ALP who have captured a large section of our savings, and have even considered appropriating it to fund failures like the NBN etc.

  14. Alice

    But JC I will say this. you think you can change the government to conservative and get a responsible trustee.

    I think thats crap. The whole law on forced super shouldnt be there in the first place and no-one in any government will make responsible trustees. No side of government or politics.

    There is too much money in the honey pot for government and friends not to work out every way possible they can skim it and fleece it.

    Its all bullshit and ordinary people are being legislatively robbed of their true life savings.

  15. Alice

    Fuck off Dot – you are a stupid bugger. You havcent got a clue on this.

  16. .

    I have just provided the evidence and now you continue with your unhinged bullshit about how you are a centrist…which is really a front for your rabid far leftism.

    I will not “fuck off”. I have made guest posts on this blog.

  17. JC

    But JC I will say this. you think you can change the government to conservative and get a responsible trustee.

    No that’s stupid, Alice, you dimwit.

    IF the incoming government enacts laws for the unions that are similar to those governing corporations then it would be likely we have a reduced problem with union heavies drinking at the trough.

  18. Alice

    Qho bloody cares who cooked it up now Dot>
    You are living the 1980s. The point is every damn government since them of either perusausion has happily had their hands in the till of our so called life savings.
    I dont give a fuck who started legislative enforced super and nor should you, I do care about which party will end it (and I nwill celebrate them).

    Do you Dot or do you you want to harp on with a blame game?

    Move on and end it.

  19. Bruce

    It is my understanding that this is the second time around for this sort of “creative accounting”.

    Back in the 1940s, there was a form titled along the lines of “Income Tax and Pension Return”.

    Remember that the Feds took almost all taxing powers from the States as a “temporary” measure during WW2.

    Does anyone remember that “temporary” time expiring?

    So, having quietly pissed away ALL of the country’s contributions to this splendid pension scheme, the same sort of people are about to institute a similar, but much bigger and more complex scheme.

    Anyone care to bet on when ALL of the money extorted from the punters this time will be gone?

    Reckon they’ve got it right this time?

    You’d have to be joking!

  20. Alice

    JC,

    I waa talking about the nanny statist approach to enforced super. I have no idea what you are tallking about, something weird about unions drinking at the trough wgich has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
    How you lost the thread, I dont know.

  21. Alice

    Beucw says
    r
    “emember that the Feds took almost all taxing powers from the States as a “temporary” measure during WW2.

    Does anyone remember that “temporary” time expiring?

    Im with you on this Bruce. Why do you think Canberra has everything it needs and Sydney is a congested as all get out.
    Its called vertical fiscal imbalance. The Feds robbed the states blind. You think they are ]going to be any kinder with the honey pot of our super which they forced us into?

    Its BS

  22. Splatacrobat

    Earth to Alice, time to find your glasses again.

  23. Alice

    oh maybe Splato
    Its dark and I cannot see.. I hate needing glasses., doing the best I can (they are in my bag somewhere..)

  24. .

    Very well Alice, you ought to celebrate the Liberal Democratic Party of Australia.

  25. Alice, I agree with both of you, Super wasn’t a Communist Plot but I do agree with Dot that it’s since been hijacked by Socialists*

    The Goose has recently ‘acquired’ small fund amounts belonging to the poor, and now wants to force everyone elses to be ‘invested’** in Infrastructure, Fast Trains, Public Art and other things for which the Government already taxes us a few times over.

    If we just cut the Trade Union Party and New Communists waste, and funded only real public goods, like looking after Downs Syndrome Kids, we’d only have to pay a flat tax rate of 15% on earnings over $100k, rendering Super obsolete.

    Think of all those tax accountants and tax officials providing a real value adding service!

    —————–

    *
    I read somewhere that Marx considered “Communists” real Socialists but “Socialists” were softies just pretending to be Socialists.

    **
    I had an acquaintence at Uni who referred to a bet on the nags as an ‘investment’.

  26. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    I would especially like to understand more of the debate here on super funds management however this Alice contributor renders that impossible.

    Is she/it illiterate?

  27. .

    She came 11th in a class of 3000 commerce students from a Sydney based university in the late 1980s/early 1990s, apparently.

  28. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “… in a class of 3000 commerce students from a Sydney based university …”

    3,000 students? 3,000?

    I assume it ran from a serviced office in the CBD but with a postal address in Lagos; or was it the local campus of Pacific Western University, San Diego? I recall they offered a PhD for $US2595 (in 2006) based on one’s submitted résumé and an “Approved” message when they swiped one’s credit card number.

    The Hon Justice Marcus Einfeld had a PhD from there.

  29. .

    I think it is time Alice finally submitted her transcripts to the cat.

  30. wreckage

    3000 commerce students from a Sydney based university

    What 3000 ever? Not in one class, that’s for certain.

  31. .

    I know. I have pointed this out before. No Sydney university has ever had a graduating class/year approaching 3000 students.

    I am also unaware that the university tells you your exact rank, given the different majors/minors etc.

    Alice insists she has been working as an academic economist for 15-20 years, after earning her undergraduate degree (presumably honours, at least distinction average as an undergrad, she says “with distinction”) working full time in Sydney during the late 1980s for Mayne Nickless, after working as a haematological nurse in London (straight out of school with on the job training at Hammersmith hopstial), where she formed an opinion on Tony Abbot because of the Irish girls who could have gotten an abortion in Northern Ireland instead but went to London to also get a rich English husband after they got an abortion…anyway Tony Abbot is bad because they had to travel to London.

    She also insists she has a postgraduate economics degree and most if not all generally accepted microeconomics is bunk.

    She also reckons she swims 2.5 kms a day and is quite slow, but has a full time job.

    Whatever.

  32. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Thank you Dot. That is all quite … well … unbelievable.

    I finished post grad at Sydney Uni in ’77 and I don’t think I ever saw 3,000 in the entire joint!!!

  33. Splatacrobat

    I don’t have any degrees.I only went as far as grade 10 and went to work but I at least have the good grace to spell check words that I don’t think look right when I type them. Alice blames her typos on not wearing her glasses and speed typing. I think she could be a bit manic.

    I don’t know about the claims Alice has made about herself but I think its manic when she posts incoherent memes that span the political and ecconomic spectrum of ideology. I called her a conservative anarchist once and she thought that was a compliment.

  34. Anne

    Alice blames her typos on not wearing her glasses…

    I think she’s drunk.

    Alice! Step away from the cocktails!

  35. J.H.

    Maggie Thatcher had it right and was very clear about it…. “One must remember, it is YOUR money, not the Governments.”

    We need our Conservative side of Politics to be clear about that at all times…. The budget must be balanced and the spending absolutely neccessary and in strict accordance with Conservative ideology. A free individuals property is their own…. Not the governments.

    Too many people dont understand the very basics of a free society and are shirking their obligations and responsibilities in order to suckle at the teat of big government…. or to farm the welfare herds and profit from the cronyism and abuse of power that absolute power provides.

  36. johno

    I would especially like to understand more of the debate here on super funds management however this Alice contributor renders that impossible.

    It would be better if everyone just ignored her. She makes no useful contribution and does not seem capable of making a coherent arguement. Just ignore what she says and DO NOT RESPOND. It only encourages her.

  37. Pedro

    Applying corporate regulation to unions likely would reduce the principal-agent problems, but it still would not do anything for industry super funds.

    The problem of management competence, as compared to honesty, is much more difficult to tackle. Frankly, I don’t think that a regulator ought to be able to determine who should be on a board based on what is effectively a licensing requirement. The only way to reform any industry is with competition, so the only default super arrangement should be a bank account and let the various funds attract members across.

  38. Leigh Lowe

    Alice … If you could re-post a summary of your points in English I will have a go at reading them.

  39. Julian mclaren

    Judith, in a recent article in The Australian you mentioned that the CFMEU – CBUS -Grocon issue was the first evidence of Union influence on a superannuation funds decision making process. I cast your mind back to the Super Profits Resource Tax (mark 1). Industry super fund leaders dined at the Lodge, and then came out with public support for the tax. Surely that was not acting in the best interests of members…maximising retirement benefits?

  40. Rabz

    Super funds are yet another labyrinthine mess that the Coalition will have to deal with when they gain power.

    The conflicts of interest alone are significant concern, but haven’t a lot of these funds been ‘investing’ in dodgy taxpayer subsidised greenfilth schemes that make extremely poor returns and invariably end up collapsing?

    Given how utterly discredited unions are, any unionists on these boards should quite simply be given their marching orders.

    Any superannuation fund trustee should be beyond reproach. That immediately rules out union hacks, who by their very background, are utterly compromised.

  41. Rococo Liberal

    Most Australians are not upset by the whole super rort, because after all this time they think of their super as being paid on top of their salaries. In other words, super money is seen as an extra. Only when the rate goes up and the take-home pay goes down will the masses understand that super, like income tax, is really part of the employee’s income.

    I am concerned that APRA is being given all these powers. The best way to get unionists out of the super industry is to ensure that industry funds are not the norm.

  42. sdog

    Most Australians are not upset by the whole super rort, because after all this time they think of their super as being paid on top of their salaries. In other words, super money is seen as an extra.

    I know people who think that, and it drives me mad.

    They’re the people who really think that super is some sort of bonus being funded by their bosses/companies, and that it’s the awesome Labor Party who has forced their mean old stingy evil greedy employers to “give” them that money. So they’re overjoyed at the prospect of the amount being increased – they see it as more “free money” for them, thanks to Labor sticking it to The Man on their behalf.

  43. Token

    They’re the people who really think that super is some sort of bonus being funded by their bosses/companies…

    Too true.

    These are the types who get excited by Labor’s plan to raise compulsory super to 15%. They don’t get it that this will be at the expense of their take home pay across their career.

  44. Rabz

    These are the types who get excited by Labor’s plan to raise compulsory super to 15% 12%.

    Given the ‘phasing in’ period of the increases, the frigging numpties probably won’t even notice it. Eight years, FFS.

  45. tgs

    Did some cursory research into my super fund (had never really thought about it much before) and found out Paul Howes is a director…

    How on earth is he qualified to hold that position!? Might look into my options for different funds.

  46. All my pay rises are discretionary, so if I don’t get one next year and the super increases, my take home pay will reduce. The numpties who work for the public service will not notice it among their guaranteed pay increases.

  47. Rabz

    How on earth is he qualified to hold that position!?

    Simple. He isn’t.

  48. sdog

    Howes entered politics while still at Blaxland High School in the Blue Mountains of New South Wales, joining the far-left political groups Democratic Socialist Party and Resistance.

    He never finished high school, leaving in Year 9. However by the age of 16, after a “solidarity” trip to Cuba to the World Festival for Youth and Students Howes abandoned far-left politics and joined the Australian Labor Party. [wiki]

    Yeah, no. I’m not huge on credentialism really, knowing some very smart people who never got around to going to college and some very stupid ones whose dubiously-earned degrees give them a sense of entitlement they’re not really, well, entitled to… but that said I still don’t think a high-school dropout would be my first choice to manage my retirement fund.

  49. some pathetic reasoning

    The only obvious “pathetic reasoning” on display is that critical both of compulsory superannuation and union involvement in it.
    Try asking the millions of SFRs in this country who are the beneficiaries of the scheme what they think of it.
    But that kind of reality check isn’t favoured by the ideologues who post here, of course – might tell them something they don’t wish to hear.

  50. sdog

    Try asking the millions of SFRs in this country who are the beneficiaries of the scheme what they think of it.

    You mean the dimwits who would have been incapable of working out that they should save some of their income during their working life to live off in retirement, and who can (or will) only save for their future if compelled to by the State… a compulsion for which they are now oddly grateful ?

    Rational discourse is not possible with such pathetically helpless, dependent, childlike and ultimately unreasonable people.

  51. oddly grateful

    These “oddly grateful” people are not dependent on taxpayer funded pensions.
    You’re the one that’s odd.

  52. .

    The only obvious “pathetic reasoning” on display is that critical both of compulsory superannuation and union involvement in it.

    You really are a moron.

    Superannuation simply reduces take home pay and lines the pockets of the unions, and until Howard reformed it, it was a regressive tax sink.

  53. and lines the pockets of the unions,

    As opposed to lining the pockets of the Masters of the Universe in Bond and Collins Sts. Lesser of two evils I reckon.

  54. .

    If we eliminated superannuation, cut income taxes and got rid of the worst taxes on property development, most people in the workforce could easily buy a few houses.

    The alternative plan now is we have uneducated, communist leaning union bosses investing money in shares and derivatives, and investment/construction of (new) housing is heavily, heavily taxed.

    People seriously wonder why they cannot afford retirement or why their kids cannot afford a home.

    If many more people could own a home or two outright earlier on in their lives, it would be a significant financial stepping stone. They could safely put down equity, ability to pay and supplementary income to starting a business or building a property portfolio. If we reformed the taxes on construction and transactions, any business would have lower overheads.

    Apparently being sensible and conservative with money is a bad idea. We need union cowboys who can’t read a balance sheet putting money into shares, derivatives and levered property investment, whilst offering paltry returns that until a few months ago were uncompetitive with term deposit rates.

    Saving and cautious investment? No, that’s a sign of being a bloody assassin of the worker. Better off entrusting it to a far left wing leaning Year 9 dropout with the impulse control of a fat celebrity.

  55. .

    As opposed to lining the pockets of the Masters of the Universe in Bond and Collins Sts. Lesser of two evils I reckon.

    Right, people with commerce degrees versus Year 9 dropouts who’ve attended Marxism conferences in Cuba…whatever.

  56. harrys on the boat

    Having qualified economists on the pay roll of super funds is “more” evil than fuckwit union thieves like Paul Howes??

    You are a fucking retard, numbers.

  57. harrys on the boat

    We have the liberty quotes, but we also need what we had in my old work, a quote book, where we’d document the most idiot fucking comments spawned by commenters.

    Numbers last comment would be a shoe in.

  58. sdog

    Snic could set us up with an ongoing open thread dedicated solely to memorializng notable quotes & comments. We’d just need a sticky for it in the sidebar so it wouldn’t get lost.

  59. Dan

    Yeah, no. I’m not huge on credentialism really, knowing some very smart people who never got around to going to college and some very stupid ones whose dubiously-earned degrees give them a sense of entitlement they’re not really, well, entitled to… but that said I still don’t think a high-school dropout would be my first choice to manage my retirement fund.

    A just-retired trustee of my industry fund is facing multiple criminal charges including fraud, and needless to say I am starting an SMSF ASAP. In these circumstances I simply don’t understand why apparently intelligent people would entrust their money to a multibillion fund like that, or any fund with trustees appointed by unions.

  60. people with commerce degrees

    Commerce degrees are not all they’re cracked up to be….

  61. Having qualified economists on the pay roll of super funds

    “qualified economists” – contradiction in terms….like “army intelligence”.

  62. If we eliminated superannuation………….

    Noname’s been on the turps again.
    Bit early in the day.

  63. .

    “qualified economists” – contradiction in terms….like “army intelligence”.

    The same dickhead was giving us a lecture about MPC a few days ago.

    Fuck off you old loser.

  64. .

    Noname’s been on the turps again.
    Bit early in the day.

    You stupid bastard.

    You don’t have an argument of any kind. Superannuation adds NOTHING to net national savings. It stops choice and flexibility of investment. People can only engage in less risky investments after incurring high transaction costs.

    Superannuation is not delivering what it promised, very few people can afford to retire.

    Abolishing superannuation and reducing the taxes in income and construction would be the most worker friendly legislation in Australia for decades.

    Fuck off you stupid old loser and stick to your knitting.

  65. Superannuation is not delivering what it promised, very few people can afford to retire.

    I must be imagining my comfortable lifestyle which allows me and my family truckloads of flexibility. I work for fun, travel when I feel like it, and have heaps of precious time. My industry super fund has small transaction costs, and I am able to invest in both real estate and the stock market with funds outside super.
    Obviously I am imagining all of this – noname says it’s impossible.

  66. Gab

    Amazing how your life appears to suit every argument posed.

  67. .

    My industry super fund has small transaction costs, and I am able to invest in both real estate and the stock market with funds outside super.

    Yeah sure mate, all on a teacher’s salary. Is this like how you reckon you took on a QC in a court case and won? You stupid lying wanker.

    You just feel threatened that society is waking up the rorts that are superannuation and industry funds, and how an exodus would scuttle your precious ALP.

  68. .

    Amazing how your life appears to suit every argument posed.

    Just like Alice.

  69. Leigh Lowe

    I work for fun

    I really would like to hear from your colleagues about how much fun it is having you in the workplace.

  70. .

    I work for fun

    No honest person says this unless they make their living on their back.

  71. @ Noname

    Amazing how your life appears to suit every argument posed.

    It might have something to do with the fact that I base my arguments on lived experience rather than ideological wank.
    @Leigh Lowe
    Funny that. They keep asking me back….

  72. .

    It might have something to do with the fact that I base my arguments on lived experience rather than ideological wank.

    As a school principal who believes that ‘school ought to be the centre of attention of a small town’

    You low rent, jumped up megalomaniac.

    Australia only had a savings crisis after it implemented a pension scheme or superannuation.

  73. Chris

    No honest person says this unless they make their living on their back.

    I find it pretty sad that so many people hate their jobs so much and even more so that they believe that everyone else must hate their job too. I’d still do the work that I do if I won the lottery though perhaps unpaid rather than paid to avoid the corporate politics and big company overhead. But if you find the right job it can be really enjoyable.

    I have friends who will take holiday leave to get the time to work on projects for free which are pretty much the same sort of thing as what they get paid to do.

  74. .

    I find it pretty sad that so many people hate their jobs so much and even more so that they believe that everyone else must hate their job too.

    Get over it. It is reality.

    Most people would rather not work at all, no matter how mind blowingly awesome their job is. Perfect 10 Judge or fighter pilot…they’ve still got to turn up and it has an opportunity cost.

    I have friends who will take holiday leave to get the time to work on projects for free which are pretty much the same sort of thing as what they get paid to do.

    Your friends have a pathology. They need to take care of themselves or they will die young. I hope they realise this whilst they’re still young enough.

  75. tgs

    Commerce degrees are not all they’re cracked up to be….

    What is link supposed to be? It takes me to a site showing various tertiary education instutions in the Seattle, WA area and the kinds of degrees they offer…

    Do you have a point here?

  76. tgs

    After looking at it a little further I think what numbers might be trying to draw attention to are the (extremely dubious) statistics on the right hand side of the page relating to graduate jobs?

    confirm/deny?

  77. sdog

    I’m really glad this thread is now all about Numbers Boy. I don’t think that happens nearly enough.

  78. @ Noname

    Your friends have a pathology.

    You’re the one with the pathology. Most people have a space in their lives for altruism.
    Those lacking it tend to be lonely and lost creatures.

  79. .

    Sorry, sdog

    The arsewipe stole my thunder. I was in a no win situation either way.

    You’re the one with the pathology. Most people have a space in their lives for altruism.
    Those lacking it tend to be lonely and lost creatures.

    Because I think if you give up your holidays for unpaid work you’re going to work yourself into an early grave?

    No doubt you’re one of those slack jawed fuckwits that thinks anything short of 13 weeks holidays per year is an affront to the dignity of “da wukkas”.

  80. candy

    There’s a place for humility too.

  81. Because I think if you give up your holidays for unpaid work you’re going to work yourself into an early grave?

    The opposite is true. There’s a positive correlation between continuing to work past retirement age and enduring good health.

  82. Splatacrobat

    Most people have a space in their lives for altruism.

    Thats true Agent orange but true altruists don’t blow their own trumpet like you. Your self edifying narrsacistic proclamations are more akin to autism than altruism.

    Altruism: Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.

    Autism: a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior.

    Matthew 6: 1-4
    “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

  83. Leigh Lowe

    Funny that. They keep asking me back….

    No, Numbers … you misunderstand what I wrote, which was … “I really would like to hear from your colleagues about how much fun it is having you in the workplace”

    I am not interested in your interpretation of what they might think.
    That is, after all, the hallmark of the delusional character. Constantly projecting their own inflated opinion of self as the firmly held beliefs of others.
    Might be worth you reflecting on that, and, no ….. I don’t need further self-justification from you.

  84. candy

    Perhaps there’s some workers like labourers who don’t have the benefit of education/inherent requirements for a ‘better’ job,
    who’ve done hard yakka since 15 of so, perhaps in the hot Queensland sun,

    who dream of the day when they don’t have to go to work.

  85. @Splatacrobat
    My “self edifying narrsacistic (sic) proclamations” as you call them are simply statements of fact, often as a result of demands for the “truth” from all the altruistic and compassionate worthies who post here.
    It amuses me that anyone who disagrees with the herd is labelled and stereotyped, and when those labels and stereotypes are found to be misplaced, the accusation is narcissism.

  86. Leigh Lowe

    I’m really glad this thread is now all about Numbers Boy. I don’t think that happens nearly enough.

    Too true.
    Did you know that Redgum wanted to write a song about his experiences in ‘nam?
    They initially wrote “I was only 1735099″ but the lyric didn’t really scan, so they went with “I was only 19″ instead.
    But the song still really is all about Numbers

  87. Chris

    Because I think if you give up your holidays for unpaid work you’re going to work yourself into an early grave?

    Outlook looks bad for Abbott then I guess!

  88. Leigh Lowe

    I work for fun

    Are you in the HSU Executive?

  89. .

    The opposite is true. There’s a positive correlation between continuing to work past retirement age and enduring good health.

    You moron. Everyone else has already worked themselves into an early grave.

  90. Leigh Lowe

    Amazing how your life appears to suit every argument posed ….. Just like Alice.

    Alice in Numberland?

  91. blogstrop

    It amuses me that anyone who disagrees with the herd is labelled and stereotyped,

    No, I don’t think it amuses you at all, since you’re a humourless troll whose sole aim in life appears to be making a pest of yourself and sticking your nose and stupid opinions in where they are not wanted, just to be vexatious. You’re a hater, and deserve every bit of crap that they throw at you, so stop complaining that you get whacked every time your stick your mole-like head above the parapet.

  92. Splatacrobat

    A clown like Alice

    Little known Nevil Shute sequel where nurse meets shell shocked spud peeler as they strive to come to terms with a post Vietnam war world where conservatives rule.

  93. sdog

    But the song still really is all about Numbers

    Some people claim the advertising character Spuds MacKenzie was based on me but even were that true I’d try not to hijack whole threads to brag on it.

  94. Leigh Lowe

    he he …. A Clown Like Alice

    Act 1, Scene 1.
    Chip Central, Nui Dat, 1969 ….
    [cue Raiders of the Lost Ark theme] …..

  95. sdog

    A flailing monkey is like a painted flower; it never wilts.

  96. candy

    Spuds MacKenzie looked real cute playing the drums!

  97. sdog

    Trickery always comes asking for bread.

  98. Leigh Lowe

    The 22nd Airborne Potato Peelers Regiment.

    Insignia:- Two crossed chips with Maris Piper flower rampant.
    Motto:- “Who Pares Skins?”

  99. sdog

    He’s a happenin’ dude, Candy.

  100. Interesting.
    This thread was about superannuation.
    I posted a comment about the topic (10.53am)
    A series of ad hominem comments followed, which quite successfully derailed the thread.
    The point is, I didn’t do the derailing – it was successfully accomplished by the usual suspects, who have a Pavlovian response to anything I post.
    The Jujitsu principle of redirection (rechanneling the force) obviously applies.

    Great sport, and great fun.

  101. sdog

    But the song still really is all about Numbers

    8675309?

  102. .

    The point is, I didn’t do the derailing – it was successfully accomplished by the usual suspects, who have a Pavlovian response to anything I post.
    The Jujitsu principle of redirection (rechanneling the force) obviously applies.

    Fucking wanker.

  103. .

    The fact of the matter is he trolled hard because he sees abolishing superannuation as a threat to his precious ALP.

  104. Fucking wanker.

    Translation – I’ve run out of ideas again, so I’ll resort to profanity. It always worked behind the dunnies in year 6…..

  105. sdog

    The fact of the matter is he trolled hard because he sees abolishing superannuation as a threat to his precious ALP because that’s who he is. It’s what he does. It’s all he has anymore.

    FTFY.

  106. .

    I brought up ideas numbers and your response was “oh you are on the turps”

    Give it up you pathetic old loser.

  107. “qualified economists” – contradiction in terms….like “army intelligence”.

    Like “German Democratic Republic” or “government help”.

  108. “I work for fun
    No honest person says this unless they make their living on their back.”

    Or on their knees…

  109. Pedro

    It is obviously true that tax deferral for retirement saving will increase savings for retirement and therefore saving in general. I know quite a few people who are taking advantage of super rules for their retirement. However, none of them was an average wage schlub.

    It is also obviously true that forced saving hurts the relatively poor by reducing current income while the amount of savings they can acrue are limited by their low income, but tax deferral for unforced saving would be excellent for the low paid.

    It is even truer that compulsory saving leads to opportunities for various parasites to take advantage of the inertia and lack of attention of the average person. This applies to all funds. The commercial funds are run by vampires and vultures.

  110. @The Beer Whisperer
    If you enjoy what you do it’s not, by definition, work. It’s getting paid to indulge in a pastime.

  111. papachango

    reading this thread from the bottom up is positively Dali-esque. Probably the most surreal thing I’ve ever read on the Cat.
    Somethign about spud peelers, working on your back, Numbers and flailing monkeys…

  112. wreckage

    SMSF’s have to show a return, by law. Big funds, risking the super of thousands of people at once, are under no such obligation.

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