FOUR more South Australian schools have kept reported incidents of sexual abuse secret from parents, embattled Education Minister Grace Portolesi has revealed under questioning, as the child sex scandal engulfing the state Labor government deepens.
The revelation comes after The Australian reported today that a second school failed to inform parents of a sexual offence that occurred in May this year, despite Ms Portolesi being aware of the incident.
Seems the only ‘seal of the confessional’ being upheld to the detriment of children is the one being run by the Labor Party – the only political party in the world that has been led (state and territory) by no fewer than three men convicted of sexually assaulting children.
Labor’s story is that of “ambition in goals, weak in delivery” and the list is embarrassingly long – cutting the homeless rate, bringing down an effective mining tax, stopping boats with a more humane policy than John Howard’s, boosting our school performance on the international ratings, fixing the federation through the Council of Australian Governments, pledging in the 2009 defence white paper a huge military procurement agenda that was unrealisable and achieving the surplus by delivering the greatest and fastest fiscal consolidation seen. This list just scrapes the surface.
So I replied to my Anglo Indian gay nephew, you may not be homophobic, but that doesnt mean you are not a white, racist, sexist, misogynistic, ageist, Mohamed hater. Heh he.
Back in the olden days people like gillard were referred to as “snake oil salesmen”.
Gab, back in the olden days snake oil, like Goanna oil, was relatively useful stuff. I think what Ms Gillard is selling is more like just snakes, from garden variety to king brown.
sdog, I can tell you are a scientist, or at least better than me at arithmetic and stuff. But otherwise I am non the wizer. But I do sympathise, because its better to come forth than to come fifth,
“MERRY Christmas, Prime Minister.” That was how one Labor MP sarcastically responded to this week’s final Newspoll results for 2012, which found that Labor ended this year exactly where it ended last year.
The last Newspoll for December last year put Labor on a two-party-preferred vote of just 46 per cent, and so it was this week in the final poll for this year.
No improvement whatsoever, in a sure sign that Labor looks set to lose office next year despite false spin coming out of Julia Gillard’s office, designed to ensure discipline and provide hope…
Bearing in mind that this week’s result for Gillard mirrored the final poll Howard achieved to end 2006, Rudd from opposition went on to pick up 23 seats for Labor and form government the following year. If the Liberal and National parties win just three seats more than they did at the last election, Tony Abbott will become our next prime minister.
The electorate at large are not fools. They’ve seen her non-answers to questions in parliament and her endless prevarications. They know that there are penalties for misleading parliament which include loss of office.
No doubt many of them also understand that the government keeps tame journalists on a drip-feed of information and that – with some exceptions – the Canberra press gallery is pro-Gillard and pro-Labor to a degree that would once have been unimaginable.
To understand why the government is back in the same position as it was in January, it’s helpful to recall the Australia Day incident. Who could have conceived that at least one person in the Prime Minister’s office thought it was appropriate to incite a race riot, based on a wilful misrepresentation of the Opposition Leader’s view on the Aboriginal tent embassy? I suspect that a lot of people who’d previously been prepared to cut Gillard a fair amount of slack felt as though their good nature had been trespassed on. When the culture in the highest office in the land sanctions that sort of behaviour – this year’s version of “whatever it takes” – the person who’s ultimately in charge must take some of the blame.
And the scripted, failed gender war invented by Scottish idiot, John McTernan:
To the sisterhood of 1970s feminists and to the more impressionable of the rising generation, these must have seemed like masterstrokes. After all, who could doubt that Tony Abbott was a male chauvinist pig with anachronistic views on all the questions that modern, progressive people care about? Was the first female Prime Minister to be defeated by such a troglodyte?
No doubt there are true believers who will swallow whatever they’re told. However, most women can recognise a high-profile public man with a close, happy family when they see one. He may be a bit blokey – which does him no harm when talking to either women or men from Labor’s rapidly eroding base in the western suburbs of Sydney – and he’d never pass for a metrosexual. But the charges of misogyny and sexism against Abbott were never going to stick because they’re obviously unfounded.
What’s more, a great many self-respecting women resent being told that they owe it to themselves and to their gender to vote for Gillard. It’s too transparent an exercise in pushing buttons, too demeaning, when the real question is whether the party deserves another term.
Where the failed Gillard stands, historically:
As I’ve said before, I remember the Whitlam era at its shambolic worst and never thought to see another national government as bad. The Gillard government is as reckless in its spending, as chaotic and cack-handed in its dealings, but without the idealism that partly redeemed Whitlam. In a few years, most of us will come to marvel at the fact Gillard got away with so much and lasted so long.
In a few years, most of us will come to marvel at the fact Gillard got away with so much and lasted so long.
Nope, have been marveling at how much she and her cabal get away with every day. Then again if Canberra, Fauxfacts and the ABC presstitutes did their job instead of being the fawning gillard sycophants they are then things may have been different by now. And what are they about to get as a reward for all their worship and spin doctoring? Restrictions of the free press. (ABC exempted, of course).
CL, I cant bear to read PvO. He is a bit like ABC lite or Janey has Moved. Polls may not be shite, but do not help you if you are ahead. I think its best to allow the whole ALPBC complex to remain complacent in their conquest of all information in the world. Let the eat lotus leaves, until.
Susan Rice – the lowlife who deliberately lied about the death of America’s ambassador to Libya – says she’s withdrawing her name from consideration for the position of Secretary of State. That’s because she’d be exposed for what she is – and her master would be exposed for what he is – at any nomination hearing.
CNN wins a rare spin/brown-nosing double award for its ‘report’:
Nick Bryant’s profile on Julia’s Scottish git in The Monthly has him describing Gillard’s position as irretrievable. McTernan’s loser reputation intact!
Pearson is right. I remember the latter days of the Whitlam government, and Gillard’s mob of incompetents are worse precisely because they add an extra ingredient of vicious malice. I used to be indifferent to Gillard as a person, but I now loathe her since her misogyny rant. Apparently she hates normal Australian men. Nice to know.
I sincerely hope and pray she is turfed out in the New Year.
$260 billion and counting after Swan raised the limit from $250b to $300b, compared with Costello’s zero.
The left is trying to hide its fiscal recklessness in government so therefore it must lie. Constantly.
The government debt binge – not mining (or the rest of the economy, which is in recession) – is primarily responsible for the massive overvaluation of the AUD, which is killing Australian manufacturing, which is sacking its workforce at an almost unprecedented rate. You don’t read about it because the MSM is barracking for the government. Unbelievable.
Borrowings alone are now nearly 20% more than annual government revenue in 06-07 but, after the spending binge of the past five years, only two-thirds of current government outlays (up 72%+). The country will be paying for this for a generation. The most reckless government ever.
Another school shooting in the US – this time in Connecticut.
There’s a strange blend of collective denial and pure lunacy central to what is fondly called the American dream.
Gun wankers (and their Glibertariam supporters) have innocent blood on their hands.
After trying to sell us the Latham-Gillard led Labor cohort in 2004 and failing miserably, the craven media stepped back and for a while had to find something acceptable to say about Howard. He’s a clever politician was all they’d offer. Never mind the brilliant budgetary situation, with genuine surpluses, or the fully paid down debt, future fund covering previously unfunded future liabilities, and so on.
In 2007 the voters faced a perfect confection of union funded scare campaign on Work Choices (back when there were jobs, remember?) an “it’s time” element pushed by the media, and a raft of dodgy promises about being essentially conservative, but caring, from Rudd.
Howard and the Libs also must take some blame for being slow learners on the reinvention and generational change front. Howard offered them the opportunity and they failed, but he failed to give us the obviously best candidate in Costello. Costello was feared by the media and the Labor Party because he’s the best performer in recent history. They had to knobble him with pathetic things like “nobody likes him, and that smirk”, but again, too many leadership candidates in the coalition ranks was part of the succession problem. An earlier transition would have won at least one more term, and possibly done more damage to the twin foundering entities, the union movement and the ALP.
Instead, we have had the KevinShow, all pizzaz, a bit of bad language, but essentially dysfunctional, while in the background the IR system went down the toilet and the zombie union movement was walking abroad once more. Then the Kev show was axed in favour of an even worse horror show. When will it be acknowledged that we have a democracy damaged by the corrupt media? The next election may be some sort of clean out, but until the media issue is disinfected the pattern will repeat. Every coalition government will suffer the bad press while they try to rebuild the finances and are obliged to be mean in the process. When they get the ship righted they’ll be subjecte to ongoing sniping and another “it’s time for a change” campaign. How often do we have to do this, repeating the mistakes of the past because the media – the nation’s teacher union – are doing the people a vary bad disservice?
Jump – re your question from old fred about putting young people on motorbikes to learn about vulnerability – I had a motorbike at 18 and loved it, but being young I felt invulnerable anyway. Once did Sydney uni to Neutral Bay late at night, traffic lights all green, hardly any traffic unlike now, in a magical flying ten minutes.
These days I see young guys doing the most stupid weaving lane changes at a speed greater than the rest of the traffic, threading the needle at a rate which makes them hard to see coming. They obviously still feel invulnerable to be doing that in the big meat mincer that is Sydney peak hour.
The zombies are desperately unhappy that their attempt to get Mal Brough and therefore damage AbbottAbbottAbbott isn’t going to work:
FORMER speaker Peter Slipper would be walloped in an election, with less than 3 per cent of voters saying they would vote for him, according to a poll in his Queensland seat of Fisher.
Three-quarters said they had an unfavourable opinion of him, when questioned a day after the judge threw out the sexual harassment case, brought by Mr Slipper’s then staffer James Ashby, as an abuse of process.
Liberal National Party candidate Mal Brough polled 48.4 per cent; the Labor candidate 21.2 per cent, the Greens 11.7 per cent and Katter’s Australian Party 7.4 per cent in Thursday night’s ReachTEL poll of 661 commissioned by Fairfax Media and conducted by automated phone calls.
Mr Slipper confirmed on Friday that he intends to contest the election.
Meanwhile, not a line in the zombie media about the fact that everyone in the ALP caucus now knows the Lying Slapper is unelectable. Peter Harcher’s column this morning was an ode to his mother. LOL.
Numbers, check out the number of gun massacre dead in Finland (population 5.4 million) since 1 Jan 2007 compared with the number in America (population 311 million) over the same period. I haven’t done the maths, but my impression is that, per head of population, the US might be a tad safer.
After trying to sell us the Latham-Gillard led Labor cohort in 2004 and failing miserably, the craven media stepped back and for a while had to find something acceptable to say about Howard. He’s a clever politician was all they’d offer. Never mind the brilliant budgetary situation, with genuine surpluses, or the fully paid down debt, future fund covering previously unfunded future liabilities, and so on.
Its more impressive giving the climate that the conservative party must work with. i.e enemies in the public service, education, mass media, ABC etc
The next election may be some sort of clean out, but until the media issue is disinfected the pattern will repeat. Every coalition government will suffer the bad press while they try to rebuild the finances and are obliged to be mean in the process. When they get the ship righted they’ll be subjecte to ongoing sniping and another “it’s time for a change” campaign. How often do we have to do this, repeating the mistakes of the past because the media – the nation’s teacher union – are doing the people a vary bad disservice?
If the Liberal and National parties win just three seats more than they did at the last election, Tony Abbott will become our next prime minister.
He doesn’t have to “win” any seats. Lyne and New England will go to the Coalition automatically as a backlash against the lemon-sucker and dumbo. The seat of Fisher will revert to it’s proper representation when Brough thrashes that chronic taxi passenger, Mussel-Man. The Parliament is notionally Coalition, so Gillard has to win back seats to hold on.
Merry Christmas, Prime Minister
That says it all.
Don’t worry about factions or policies or faceless string-pullers.
As the election approaches, an increasing number of ALP MPs on the wrong side of the electoral pendulum will ask if it is worth sacrificing their careers in the altar of faux feminism invented by Gillard and McTurdman for the cheer-squad of ageing hags like Summers.
“The best leaders are those the people hardly know exist.
The next best is a leader who is loved and praised.
Next comes the one who is feared.
The worst one is the leader that is despised.
If you don’t trust the people, they will become untrustworthy
As the election approaches, an increasing number of ALP MPs on the wrong side of the electoral pendulum will ask if it is worth sacrificing their careers in the altar of faux feminism invented by Gillard and McTurdman for the cheer-squad of ageing hags like Summers.
The Lying Slapper is bloody-minded enough to call a snap election if the unrest in caucus looks likely to lead to a leadership spill. The dissident backbenchers will be forced to march in lockstep to their doom. “Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven”.
It is a clear demonstration of tribalism triumphing over honour that the few adults in the parliamentary ALP like Crean, Ferguson etc do not cross the floor and end this sorry episode in Australian politics. Better to go down with a foundering ship that become an object for labor hate.
Pray for the parents of ALL these innocent victims of senseless violene, and if you can’t do that, shut the fuck up with your disgusting point-scoring game.
I’ll accept no lectures about “sensitivity” on days of tragedy like today from people who work the other 364 days of the year against any attempt to prevent such tragedies.
It’s bad enough to have a gun lobby. It’s the last straw when that lobby also sets up itself as the civility police. It may not be politically possible to do anything about the prevalence of weapons of mass murder. But it damn well ought to be possible to complain about them – and about the people who condone them.
Sure, Chilly Mits, she could do that, and Labor would lose Government but what are the odds she would lose her own seat in the rout?
Sadly, almost no chance as based on the results of the last poll, Lalor needs a swing of over 20% to change hands. Given the composition of the seat, I can’t see it happening. But the snap poll would be to avoid the humiliation of being deposed by her own party; losing at the polls means she can remain a Labor party martyr and heroine to Emily’s List. When she loses at the polls, she’s more likely to do an Anna Bligh and resign her seat rather than serve on someone’s backbench.
In this case, because the excitement and gloating from the Left over the American tragedy, while they ignore a similar tragedy just hours beforehand because China-bashing isn’t as cooooool or because knife crime doesn’t suit their narrative, is making me sick. I just felt like calling it out.
These innocent children deserve better than to have y’all laughing and clapping in glee as you dance on their still-warm bodies.
Sure, Chilly Mits, she could do that, and Labor would lose Government but what are the odds she would lose her own seat in the rout?
They don’t come any more rusted-on than Victorian Labor voters and Lalor is literally Victorian rust belt country. Gillard will only be prised out when she leads Labor over the cliff that they have been heading towards ever since the unions installed her in 2010.
She should then die of shame in the inevitable by-election and join Mother Russia as a patron saint of Emilys List. Just like Kirner, she will be unemployable from that date.
Even the IPCC has now dumped most of the ‘scariest warmie campfire stories’!
Poor warmies, even their Holy Book is turning against them….
Roger Pielke Jr sums up via tweets
IPCC AR5 draft shows almost complete reversal from AR4 on trends in drought, hurricanes, floods and is now consistent with scientific literature
IPCC AR5 Draft: “we have high confidence that natural variability dominates any AGW influence in observed/historical TC records”
Draft IPCC Ch2 bottom line on extremes: “generally low confidence that there have been discernable changes over the observed record”
on lack of trends in extremes, exceptions are trends seen in temperature extremes and regional precipitation (but not floods)
On XTCs “unlike in AR4, it is assessed here..there is low confidence of regional changes in the intensity of extreme extratropical cyclones”
Bottom line IPCC trop cyclones same as SREX: “low confidence that any reported long term increases in tropical cyclone activity are robust”
More IPCC draft Ch2 on trop cyclones: “current datasets indicate no significant observed trends in global tropical cyclone frequency”
IPCC on trop cyclones “AR4 assessment needs to be somewhat revised with respect to the confidence levels associated with observed trends”
IPCC draft Ch2 on drought: “The current assessment does not support the AR4 conclusions regarding global increasing trends in droughts”
More IPCC Ch2: “low confidence regarding the sign of trend in the magnitude and/or frequency of floods on a global scale”
More IPCC draft report: Ch2: “there is currently no clear and widespread evidence for observed changes in flooding” except timing of snowmelt
For those of you with a legitimate excuse to watch play school Justine Clarke is on at the moment. Teach her to cook a chop and she’s our Nigella I reckon.
I see the battle against that imperialist war of aggression over the peace and freedom loving peoples of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam continues with whichever tools are available.
Meanwhile, a little something from the Bookmark Archives.
Eddystone, still waiting on the PTAs. It’s pre Xmas so I don’t mind the wait. Was planning on January for them anyway.
I’ve got a PTA in on a 1902 Lee Enfield, sporterized, which I plan on restoring to original condition (one day ).
Man-oh-man – you just might have a Boer War rifle!
So sporterised but did they remove and or replace the fore-sight? or was it an iron sight sporterisation? As you know, in 1899 clearing rods were abolished in British Service and the MK 1 * Lee Enfield Rifle without clearing rod hole in the fore end nose cap was approved on 7th August 1899.
The (very few) Boer war rifles I have seen in .303 calibre Long Lee Enfield MK 1* have been very crisply stamped on the right side of the strap ‘BSA Co Kings Crown ER’ , ‘LE I*’ and the date. Is any of the wood work original and if so is the stock stamped with the ‘BSA’ roundel? Imperial units tended to follow standard practise of stamping the brass butt plate with a unit designator next to the War Dept arrow. This was especially true of mounted rifle units. Now, these are now often very faint or only visible with specialist imaging (the small arms curators, excellent folks, at the AWM annex at Mitchell can advise on this) Does it have a shrouded bolt and is the magazine chain in place?
It has a good No1 barrel with the old windage adjustable sight, so that may be the basis of an early No1 later down the track.
That sounds solid, do the numbers match?
I’ve also got a No4 in 7.62 which will become a repro L42 eventually.
Numbers: just another mindless unthinking bigoted left-wing racist.
Mk50 – Just another ignorant local apologist for the NRA, the West’s own Taliban.
Both organisations are based on fundamentalist principles, are anachronistic in the 21st century, and quite comfortable with mass slaughter.
Law-abiding citizens with registered weapons are not the problem here.
Dimwit: the problem is telling who will be law abiding with a weapon and who won’t. Getting them to tick a box saying “I promise not to become a madman who will use this assault rifle and high capacity magazine for a massacre” doesn’t work. People’s mental health is not a static thing.
The overwhelming majority of shooting sprees is done by people with legally purchased weapons.
So what does work?
People at this blog take it as an article of faith that Howard’s legal framework stopped the boats. (I think the story is more complicated than people allow for, but the refuge advocates counterclaims go too far in the other direction. So, basically, I think Howard’s response did pretty much work, even though the public was prepared to let Rudd come in and change the system.)
Do you know what other thing stopped as a result of a Howard legal framework?
Hint: the last one happened in 1996.
Now, I know the US is not going to try to go for the Australian laws. But the refusal of gun advocates in your country to consider any restriction at all on the type of weapon and accessories that make random massacres capable of maximum kill rate is just sickeningly stupid and a triumph of blind ideology over common friggin’ sense.
I got myself a windage backsight for my #1 MkIII* and fitted it in place of the standard. Used it for target shooting a while. Never did get around to fitting the old windage AND elevation-correcting sight I bought online, that had the ramp set up for MkII/MkVI round-nose ammo before I sold the gun, but I kept all the bits.
sickeningly stupid and a triumph of blind ideology over common friggin’ sense.
I’m afraid I can’t be as charitable.
Those supporting the availability of semi-autos and handguns are quite simply raving lunatics. Common sense has nothing to do with it.
Having been threatened by a gun-toting father in 1989 when I was a principal changed my attitude on this. I’ll never forget how helpless I felt – it was my job to protect the disabled kids at my school. Fortunately he calmed down and went home.
The sanctity of an elementary school and the innocence of childhood apparently are not worth protecting in the interests of a powerful and cynical gun lobby.
Anyone here brave enough to speak up for the rights of those 20 kids and the teachers who vainly tried to protect them?
Man-oh-man – you just might have a Boer War rifle!
I hadn’t thought of that!
As far as I know, the barrel is a replacement, the fore end wood was cut back and it’s been used as a cheaper shooter on a farm.
Skennerton’s book should give me a bit more info.
Perturbed, if you have any bits and pieces, I’m looking for a nut for the rear site protector screw, also the nut for the bayonet lug rear screw, both for a Lithgow No1 Mklll*
The most telling statistic of all in relation to international gun ownership is this one – Table 2: Homicides and suicides committed with a gun, in the 18 ICS countries per head of population – from GUN OWNERSHIP, SUICIDE AND HOMICIDE:
AN INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVE
Martin Killias
Homicide per 1 million Suicide per 1 million – USA – 44.6 per million. This is twice the next (Northern Ireland – 21.3) and no other ICS country comes anywhere near it, with the next highest being Italy at 13.1. Australia is 6.6, one seventh of the rate in the USA.
To quote from the conclusion to the article –
The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the
results of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first
International Crime Survey.31 Substantial correlations were found between gun
ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread
gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events
committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other
potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more
guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.
Same old BS from the ignorant bigots – don’t they just love to use these incidents to enforce their agenda?
Here’s an alternative view from Germeny:
By the time a 17-year-old gunman had finished his wild shooting spree at a school near Stuttgart, Germany, this week, at least nine young pupils and three teachers lay dead. Only after fleeing the scene, with the police in hot pursuit, and a final shootout with authorities, was the attacker finally killed.
Could an armed teacher have made a difference? Of course. Surely a teacher with a gun in the hand would have been better than a cop on the phone. The incident proves what has long been known: The only person who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun – nobody else will be of much help.
Police cannot personally protect every person in a nation and can only clean up the mess after a crime has taken place.
Instant response to a life-threatening situation is always best, as “the clean up team” remains just that – “the clean up team.” The police cannot be everywhere, all the time, to protect you.
Get Charl Van Wyk’s riveting account of protecting his church from terrorists: “Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self Defense”
Of course, there are disadvantages in having firearms in a society. But consider the fact that these are far outweighed by the advantages.
When last did you hear of a multiple-victim shooting taking place on a firearm range, in a police station or at a gun show, or wherever many firearms are found anywhere in the world? You haven’t. That’s because criminals prefer unarmed victims, or soft targets. No wonder they love gun control – it makes their work so much easier and their working environment much safer.
In Israel, teachers and parents who serve as school aids are armed with semi-automatic firearms whenever they are on school grounds. Since the country adopted this policy in the 1970s, attacks by gunmen at Israeli schools have become non-existent.
In 2004 Thailand adopted a similar approach to ensure the safety of its schoolchildren.
On April 27, 2004, Associated Press reported, “Interior Minister Bhokin Bhalakula ordered provincial governors to give teachers licences to buy guns if they wanted to, even though it would mean bringing firearms into the classrooms when the region’s 925 schools re-opened on May 17, after two months of summer holiday.”
The report stated that though Thailand’s government was extremely hostile to gun ownership in general, it recognized that teachers ought to be in a position to safeguard themselves and their students.
After the latest attack, German politicians will probably react the same way they did after previous attacks. After Germany’s worst school massacre of 2002 in Erfurt, when an armed ex-pupil shot dead 17 people and again in 2006, when an 18-year-old pupil in Emsdetten shot and injured dozens of people, German authorities tightened the country’s gun control laws.
Maybe it’s time that German politicians learn from Israel and Thailand. The policy of arming schoolteachers might be seen as politically incorrect, but is the surest way to save the lives of innocent children and teachers.
If we want to stop these senseless killing sprees at our schools, we have to arm those who are in the best position to do anything about them – the teachers themselves.
the refusal of gun advocates in your country to consider any restriction at all on the type of weapon and accessories that make random massacres capable of maximum kill rate is just sickeningly stupid and a triumph of blind ideology over common friggin’ sense.
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools. That’s known as the Somalian model. Works a treat for them.
There are all kinds of lunacies, but that takes the cake.
Conflating suicide and murder is ridiculously dishonest. As is blaming law-abiding citizens who are licensed and own legal weapons with criminals who are unlicensed and are in possession of illegally-obtained weapons.
You might as well ban all citizens from obtaining drivers licenses and owning cars because sometimes people deliberately use them to kill themselves, or because sometimes unlicensed hoons steal cars, drive impaired and kill innocent people.
“After a shooting spree vehicular manslaughter, they always want to take the guns cars away from the people who didn’t do it.”
FORMER speaker Peter Slipper would be walloped in an election, with less than 3 per cent of voters saying they would vote for him, according to a poll in his Queensland seat of Fisher.
In Israel, teachers and parents who serve as school aids are armed with semi-automatic firearms whenever they are on school grounds. Since the country adopted this policy in the 1970s, attacks by gunmen at Israeli schools have become non-existent.
As usual, the gun loving nuts the only answer is more guns, more guns.
The hand waving over why nothing about gun control works or could possibly work continues. Anything and everything is clutched at, no matter how irrelevant or simplistic it is on closer examination, just so you can avoid the issue and have your guns for ideological reasons.
I am just thankful that public opinion on this matter in Australia is a million miles from the pathetic views of the gun libertarians of Catallaxy.
Ban all guns of course because that will stop anyone from obtaining a gun illegally.
Ah, the Chicago Solution!
Chicago Is Deadliest Global City.“Chicago likes to compare itself to other world cities, so Ward Room thought it would find out how we rank in violence. It turns out no one can top us. Among what are considered Alpha world cities, Chicago has the highest murder rate — higher even than the Third World metropolises of Mexico City and Sao Paolo.”
As usual, the gun loving nuts the only answer is more guns, more guns.
Actually that’s a complete misrepresentation. Banning guns will not stop someone who wants to shoot people from obtaining a gun. It only stops law abiding citizens from being able to choose if they want to protect themselves.
The sanctity of an elementary school and the innocence of childhood apparently are not worth protecting in the interests of a powerful and cynical gun lobby.
FOUR more South Australian schools have kept reported incidents of sexual abuse secret from parents, embattled Education Minister Grace Portolesi has revealed under questioning, as the child sex scandal engulfing the state Labor government deepens.
The revelation comes after The Australian reported today that a second school failed to inform parents of a sexual offence that occurred in May this year, despite Ms Portolesi being aware of the incident.
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools.
And yet this has worked a treat in Israel since the massacre at the Netiv Meir elementary school in ’74. Never been another one as paleosimian terrorists like the DFLP members who performed this massacre will not attack a ‘hardened target’.
At the Mercaz HaRav massacre, the terrorist was killed by an armed student, saving many lives.
At Beslan and other schools, other paleosimian terrorist scum again succeeded as none of the targets had any ability to deter the atatcks. They were all defenceless and as the paleosimian terrorists there noted in captured planning docs, that was why they picked the target.
So once again, the poor ignorant leftard prefers ‘emotion and feelings’ rather than verifiable fact.
Conflating suicide and murder is ridiculously dishonest.
I’m not sure whether this comment emanates from breathtaking ignorance or stark denial.
You might as well ban all citizens from obtaining drivers licenses and owning cars
Excuse my stating the bleeding obvious, but motor vehicles are designed to move people around, not to kill them. Firearms, on the other hand are killing machines – that’s what they’re designed to do. I’m surprised you can’t tell the difference.
The simple relationship between the prevalence of weapons in a community and the rate of deaths from firearms exists. This holds as a universal constant worldwide. There may be an excuse for it in countries where firearms are in the community because of recent conflict (Afghanistan Iraq, etc) but the last war fought in the USA was in 1865.
I was up till 2am watching the first season of a fantastic TV show called “Hit &Miss”.
Chloë Sevigny plays a pre-operation transexual hit man who learns she fathered a son 11 years before with her now dead ex-wife.
just so you can avoid the issue and have your guns for ideological reasons.
Not ideological; practical. For instance, were my baby sister alone in the house and fronted by a tradesman with similar rape fantasies as you indulged yourself in here last night, she would have some help persuading said pervert to leave. Failing that, she could shoot him in the face.
Of course, now that you’ve revealed your fantasies to us, I understand why the thought of allowing an otherwise-helpless female to be so empowered would be more than a little discomforting to you.
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools.
Guns are already illegal in schools, and murder is of course also illegal.
So what is your solution?
Number’s solution is obvious, sdog. Let the kids get massacred and then blame the people who did not do it while working hard to make sure it happens again.
After all, his view is probably that the little buggers should have been aborted anyway. he’s a leftard so he’d doubtless make that preferably just before term.
CL at 1052 absolutely nailed it (love your work, CL!)
Barack Obama – who believes late term babies may licitly be stabbed in the head with scissors, then disembowelled and decapitated; and who believes babies born alive may licitly be thrown in hospital rubbish bins – “wiped away tears.”
Proud border control denialist, Julia “1000+” Gillard: “our hearts too are broken.”
This is typical – gun loving nuts rely continually on a ridiculous slippery slope argument against any control on any guns or magazines at all to “law abiding citizens”.
Hence, when a massacre involves assault rifle with a high capacity magazine, you’ll instinctively say “there’s no point in trying to restrict their sale. Not even the magazine.”
Anyway, as I say, your ideologically commitment to the maximisation of guns in the US renders you an eccentric nut by most Australian’s views, and rightly so.
Firearms, on the other hand are killing machines – that’s what they’re designed to do. I’m surprised you can’t tell the difference.
Knives are designed to cut, Robert. Sometimes people use them to cut people. Americans are permitted to use guns for defence Robert. Some people use them for Offence. I’m surprised you can’t see the flaw in your defence!
Anyway, I see that it’s just going to be the usual suspects dragging out the usual red herrings which I and others here have comprehensively gutted and filleted more than once in the past.
How about, instead of banning guns, placing severe regulatory restriction on ownership of bullets: each gun owner could only hold, say no more than 5 bullets?
Deal with these verifiable facts -
1. There is a clear and direct correlation between the number of firearms in a community and the rate of gun homicides.
2. These massacres occur at a regular rate in the USA. No other western country has the rate and frequency of massacres evident in the USA. A brief (but not entirely comprehensive list) –
December 2012
26 killed when a gunman went to an elementary school in Connecticut. 20 were children between the ages of 5 and 10. 6 were teachers.
December 2008
A gunman dressed as Santa Claus kills nine guests at a Christmas Eve party before taking his own life in Covina, a suburb of Los Angeles in California.
December 2007
A gunman kills eight people and wounds five at a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, before killing himself.
April 2007
Cho Seung-hui kills 32 people and wounds many more at the Virginia Tech college in Blacksburg, Virginia, in two separate incidents on the same day. Cho had been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder.
March 2005
Jeff Weise, a student at Red Lake high school in Minnesota kills five students, a teacher, a security guard, and then himself. Before school, he had shot dead his grandfather and grandfather’s companion.
April 1999
Two students at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado, kill 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.
October 1991
George Hennard drives his pickup truck to Luby’s cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, then shoots dead 23 people before killing himself.
August 1986
A former employee enters a post office in Oklahoma and shoots dead 14 workers before killing himself.
July 1984
Twenty-one people are killed when a 41-year-old man opens fire at a McDonald’s restaurant in San Diego. He is shot by police.
February 1983
Three men shoot dead 14 people in the Wah Mee club in Seattle’s Chinatown.
August 1966
Charles Whitman, a former marine, holes up in the clock tower at the University of Texas campus in Austin, where he had studied. He kills 15 people and wounds another 32 before being shot dead by police.
3. The USA has the most effective gun lobby in the world.
4. The USA has had 4 presidents assassinated by gunfire, and 7 unsuccessful attempts. On those 4 occasions, the democratic will of the American people has been subverted by a lone lunatic given enormous and disproportionate power by the easy availability of a firearm.
Emotions and feelings have a place, but these verifiable facts are out there. To deny them on the basis of words in a constitution designed to deal with the insecurities of a frontier society is quite simply ludicrous.
Teachers like Robert, redolent of resentment and victimhood themselves being in a position to influence disaffected, powerless and vulnerable youth has more to do with these tragedies than the second amendment.
The usual ideologues are trotting out their usual argument that “Because of what happened in a foreign country with a different culture and different laws on the other side of the world all guns in Australia must be banned immediately as that accords with my socialist ideology.”
Empty, shallow little creatures vermin, aren’t they?
Always willing to exploit the act of a madman to further their own ideological aims.
And, being devout practising racists, absolutely willing to give Juliar a pass for killing 1000+ people at sea. They were only ‘little brown people’ in their view, so why should they count against their Juliar?
Racist scum, the lot of them, and their own words prove it.
The murderer in Conn was carrying two pistols, not an assault rifle. He lived in Conn which is surrounded by states with highly restrictive gun laws as it is itself. At least garner some facts before mouthing off.
What you show is that these guys are pikers compared to Juliar.
Why, by your expert googlin’, youve showed that in 46 years mad people in the USA have only murdered 183 people!
Cripes, Numbers, Juliar’s better than that! She’s killed 1000+ in just five years! Give her a free hand for 46 years and that’d probably be over 10,000.
No wonder you are upset at the yanks. Not a patch on your Juliar, and all HER victims are non-white.
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools.
So the first thing a mass murderer does is kill the teachers. If having guns is so protective against the postals then why is the USA with all those guns the home of postals? Does not compute. The problem is not about guns it is about culture. The USA loves it guns, that is a bigger problem than owning guns. Guns are tools, get over it. The USA is the most heavily psychiatrically medicated country in the world. There is something sick about that, what with serotonin and opioid babies, now unequivocal evidence that antidepressants are very bad for developing babies, a rash of opioid prescribed related deaths, i mllion children on antipsychotics, something is seriously fucked up there.
@IT
As a practising Catholic I’m no fan of abortion, but I would have thought Glibertarians would have issues with the state dictating to a woman her right to give birth.
References to abortion and refugees drowning are simply irrelevant in the gun debate.
It’s fascinating how quickly the gun wankers move to other issues when confronted with the irrefutable facts.
@Mk50
You keep changing the subject. Nothing in the firearm debate has anything to do with abortion or refugees, nor for that matter, with Julia Gillard.
Deal with the substance of the issue – the almost unbelievable situation where a troglodyte lobby holds the American community in thrall and destroys the right to security for its children in their schools, seen as places of sanctuary in more rational societies.
1735099 – the stats on mass murder in the US are actually worse than that. I lived in the US for a while a decade or so ago and there were mass (>3 deaths) gun shootings about every 1-2 months. But they’re not reported or only very lightly reported here in Australia. Probably for the sad fact that they’re so common. And its only the very large massacres that any longer have any real impact on the public in the US for the same reason.
I used to support increased gun control in the US, but now don’t think it would work for a few reasons:
- Too many otherwise law abiding people would simply refuse to comply – its just too culturally ingrained
- legally owned guns are a significant source of guns for people who are unable to own guns. And no law that could possibly pass in the US would be strict enough
- the US borders are a lot more porous than in a country like Australia. Democrat or Republican governments they are simply unable to control them effectively so there will be a significant supply of illegally imported weapons.
- There are too many legal and illegal weapons already in the country. Effects of gun control will literally take 50-100 years. And no politician is willing to think that far into the future (or be patient enough to wait for results for that long).
But we can use the US as an example of where Australia should not head. Learn the lesson that some decisions are irreversible and keep our existing gun restrictions if not tighten them further. And in general, resist the gun culture mentality spreading through the population.
And its only the very large massacres that any longer have any real impact on the public in the US for the same reason.
The gun violence that occurs in Democrat run cities like Chicago which have strong and enforced bans on weapons proves this issue has a lot more nuance than the simple boiled down messages the lefties try on.
Since then, there has been a huge increase in firearm ownership, and a huge drop in violent crime.
Killias himself co-authored a 2001 CJC paper that found no correlation between suicide and homicide rates and guns in the home.
The correlation between guns and homicide in the 1993 paper is actually quite weak. Exclusion of the US from the list of countries removes the correlation.
Using the same countries as the 1993 paper, others have found a stronger correlation between the homicide suicide rate and car ownership than with gun ownership.
‘No other western country has the rate and frequency of massacres evident in the USA’
I wonder. As I noted above, Finland – wonderful, social democratic caring, sharing Scandinavian Finland – has a bad recent record of multiple massacres.
Taking Numbers’s figures, at least 75 people have been killed in US gun massacres in the last five years. I agree that that’s an understatement, given that 12 were also killed at a recent Batman premier and six were killed in an assasination attempy on a Colorado Senator, so lets be, err, generous and say 100 slain.
Finland had 22 dead in gun massacres over the same period. Since the US’s population is 57 times that of Finland, to match Finland’s recent ‘record’, the US would have to have had around 5,700 gun massacre deaths.
I don’t know whether the Finnish problem is long term or whether it’s just a recent blip and, as other posters have pointed out, the issue of gun culture and gun control in the US is rather too complex for facile slogans from either side. I just get annoyed by sub-cerebral, fifth hand anti-Americanisms, whatever the problem or issue, particularly when similar problems in ‘progressive’ countries are ignored.
Deal with the substance of the issue – the almost unbelievable situation where a troglodyte lobby holds the American community in thrall and destroys the right to security for its children in their schools, seen as places of sanctuary in more rational societies.
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools. That’s known as the Somalian model.
Googling “somalian model” gives no reference to arming teachers at school. The link you provide makes no mention of “teacher”. It is difficult to accept your arguments when your references do not support your point of view.
The USA is the most heavily psychiatrically medicated country in the world. There is something sick about that, what with serotonin and opioid babies, now unequivocal evidence that antidepressants are very bad for developing babies, a rash of opioid prescribed related deaths, i mllion children on antipsychotics, something is seriously fucked up there.
Yes.
As crazy as he his himself, I think Tom Cruise is right about psychiatry.
No other country on earth has so embraced the quackery of psychiatry – along with its leftist dogma absolving everyone of anything approximating responsibility. There is also a culture of ‘entitlement,’ subjective morality and the worshipping of famous and monied imbeciles simply because they are famous and monied.
Don’t look at the guns. Look at the culture. A culture wherein a man is re-eclected president who passionately believes that babies born alive can licitly be killed.
It’s touching to see the Left upset about a mass-shooting when in fact most Leftists supported and still support Che Guevera, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, and Pol Pot, all mass-shooting specialists. For instance, I’m sure Fran Barlow will be over at John Kwiggin’s calling for gun control, but when you ask her opinion on Lenin’s Hanging Order she goes all coy.
So, yes, Americans have always been fond of guns, but we forget that they were a necessity for much of the history of the nation in which colonists and then settlers moving West routinely hunted for venison, bear, geese, ducks, rabbits, wild turkey and anything else that put meat on the table.
You may be astonished to learn, as journalist James Sterba points out in his book, “Nature Wars”, that America has “an informal army equal to the manpower in the ten largest armed forces in the world—China, United States, India, North Korea, Russia, South Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, and Vietnam—combined.” Hunters.
Deer are the favorite game of hunters and ten million Americans take to the forest and field to bring one home in the autumn. “Pennsylvania alone fields a force of deer hunters twice the size of the U.S. Army.”
If it were just the quantity of guns that are to blame for the day’s tragedy, one would think that these events would be more common. It is precisely because they are not common that we find ourselves appalled by the news reports. When it involves innocent children, it just adds to the horror.
Then we must ask ourselves if there is so much mental illness in the nation that it may be a contributing factor. Mental illness abounds as does a pharmacy of medications routinely doled out to those experiencing everything from depression to hallucinations. It is commonplace and very hard for a layman to spot. How does one know if the noisy neighbor might just also be a psychopath?
I suggest we blame the alleged killer, Adam Lanza, age 20. He was found dead at the scene and, as of this writing, he may have committed suicide or been dispatched by police. He’s dead. He’s left his mark and will become a Wikipedia entry.
The problem with the gun debate is that it falls into the category of risk issues that people evaluate emotionally rather than rationally. America’s whole murder rate – not just school massacre rate – is lower per capita than our motor vehicle accident deaths, quite a bit lower than our suicide rate and on par with any activities that kill 1400 or so Australians per year (I wonder how close cycling gets?).
This is from the most diverse nation on the planet, with almost certainly the greatest wealth disparity with (I believe but I don’t have a source) a quarter of the worlds firearms held in private hands. With some of the most lenient gun laws and a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to own guns. In the middle of a financial crisis. With some of the worlds most porous borders and maybe the worlds largest illegal drug industry.
And yet, with all that, people are still going to point to US shootings as the greatest moral travesty of our time, and consider it more concerning than all the other issues that kill people on a daily basis.
Until we can get past this level of inept decision making, based on emotional ‘data’, we will never be able to craft better policy or move beyond where we currently are at.
John, even on the subject of homocide, there is a popular fallacy that killing 20 people in one location is worse than killing 20 people in different locations. Of course, a massacre like this will have dramatic effects on people psychologically, but there is no moral difference between this and 20 individual homocides (there are a lot more than that every day in the US).
Still, there definitely do need to be personality checks on potential gun owners, and we should generally be much more “judgmental” on matters of mental health where the community is at potential risk.
Numbers, I am not a libertarian, at least not on all issues. In fact, I am probably closer to you on the guns issue than you imagine. I just found the sight of Obama crying about dead children deeply ironic, given his rabid support for partial-birth abortion.
I suspect that the spud peeler has never had to protect disabled children from a gun toting parent. How on earth is that story relevant to the issue. Numbers your simply full of shot.
Until we can get past this level of inept decision making, based on emotional ‘data’
Data is data. It’s not and never can be emotional.
If kids were being shot in schools and universities in Australia at the rate they are in the USA (129 since 1966) we’d be seeking a solution.
Instead, we see bleatings about freedom, reference to countries where totalitarianism holds sway, and red herrings about abortion.
FCOL, the USA is supposed to be a democracy. It’s instructive that one lobby, the NRA, can hold that democracy hostage. That’s an especially sinister form of totalitarianism.
This is, or should be, above partisan politics. The fact that it’s bound up in it is a large part of the problem.
If I was, that’s a standard lefty tactic, so go call the waaahmbulance, numbers. However, I am not, I am using an approach based on moral behaviours like I normally do.
No wonder you did not recognise the approach.
Nothing in the firearm debate has anything to do with abortion or refugees, nor for that matter, with Julia Gillard.
Nice cry of pain. I’d be pleased to hear why you think there’s a special moral dimension in your “mind” where massacres conducted by madmen in the USA count, and far larger slaughters caused directly by the policy of a politician you support… somehow does not count.
The only differences are that:
1. Juliar has killed far more people
2. You luuurve Juliar
3. Her victims were all non-white.
What that indicates is that you are a bog-standard lefty: amoral, stupid, partisan, a bigot and a racist.
Doesn’t cut it numbers. If you accept that a 0% unwanted death rate is not realistic – i.e. there is always some risk in being alive – then a murder rate substantially lower than most suicide rates in rich, first-world countries, then you have to accept it’s in line with how most of the civilised world values life. To evaluate it otherwise is not rational, but emotional.
The only differences are that:
1. Juliar has killed far more people
2. You luuurve Juliar
3. Her victims were all non-white.
1. Bullshit. People have drowned trying to escape tyranny. She’s killed nobody. You could equally say a succession of coalition politicians killed over 500 Australians in Vietnam.
2. I don’t know Julia Gillard – never met her. I don’t vote Labor.
3. Her “victims” don’t exist. The people who drowned (including the 353 who died on John Howard’s watch) came from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds. What they had in common was their refugee status.
but I would have thought Glibertarians would have issues with the state dictating to a woman her right to give birth.
See the problem here is that you assumed you had a thought. If you can muster enough grey matter, consider that a libertarian might think a baby’s right to live supercedes a women’s right to avoid birth. Its completely consistent unlike
Also today: “A knife-wielding man has slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.”
I presume, however, those 22 kids are still in the land of the living.
Pray for the parents of ALL these innocent victims of senseless violene, and if you can’t do that, shut the fuck up with your disgusting point-scoring game.
Somehow this statement reminds me of the Labor government always conveniently asserting it is too soon to talk about what or who was to blame for asylum seeker drownings. So Ok, let’s not talk about the wider issue here, let’s just pray – until the next time and the time after that. I am horrified and so sorry for the parents but Americans have made their choice about this.
then a murder rate substantially lower than most suicide rates in rich, first-world countries
Simply bullshit. Compare like with like. The firearm homicide rate in the USA is five times higher than this country.
So you’re OK with elementary school kids being shot in class? Don’t go there….too emotional….
1. Bullshit. People have drowned trying to escape tyranny.
People have drowned trying to escape Indonesia, which is not a tyranny anymore. They were drawn there by the promise of permanent residence in Australia after slipping in through the back door. The laws that enabled them to do this were passed by Labor in 2008, leading to a massive spike in illegal migration and in deaths.
3. Her “victims” don’t exist. The people who drowned (including the 353 who died on John Howard’s watch) came from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds. What they had in common was their refugee status.
None of the people who drowned on Siev-X had refugee “status” by definition. That’s why they were trying to come here through irregular channels.
Arguments like this show once again the absolute futility in discussing anything with Leftists. There is no point in any dialogue because they are not interested in reality. Leftism is a mental illness that should be locked up and medicated, not debated with.
So you’re OK with elementary school kids being shot in class?
Simply extraordinary. There was nothing in any comment above that gave itself to this interpretation in the slightest. You just made it up.
Are there any doubters remaining who still believe that free speech should apply to Leftists? If there are, just read the ravings and distortions of this man and ask yourself what purpose is served by allowing him the right to free expression.
The laws that enabled them to do this were passed by Labor in 2008, leading to a massive spike in illegal migration and in deaths.
This is an assertion. Despite Abbott et al repeating it over and over again, it is not fact.
Get back to a rational discussion about the link between lax gun laws, the quantity of firearms available, and the statistics.
The firearm homicide rate in the USA is five times higher than this country.
Who gives a shit about the firearm homicide rate, it’s the overall homicide rate that matters. You can claim that that it’s around 1.9 per 100,00 for many first world countries with restrictive gun laws and around 6 per 100,000 for the USA (and I’ve been very supporting of your position with those figures, that’s the best data you’re going to get anywhere), but that is the total strength of your argument.
And I would say the myriad of factors that I’ve listed above with the USA completely explain that disparity.
If Australia had the level of diversity of the USA, with the financial disparity, were hit in the financial crisis as hard as they were and weren’t by ourselves on the other side of the world, Australian society would look like downtown Afghanistan during a fire fight.
Hey Viva and numbers, I wanted to add that there’s a reason Chinese society doesn’t have the same level of gun crime as the USA (at least if you take out government executions!). Can you guess what it might be?
Perhaps the parents of the kids killed at Sandy Hook “give a shit” as you so eloquently put it.
And I would say the myriad of factors that I’ve listed above with the USA completely explain that disparity.
So there are too many factors – so forget it. That’s a cowardly copout, and characteristic of the response of legislators too frightened to take on the NRA.
So we’ll be hearing about many more of these events into the future…..
The only differences are that:
1. Juliar has killed far more people
2. You luuurve Juliar
3. Her victims were all non-white.
1. Bullshit. People have drowned trying to escape tyranny. She’s killed nobody. You could equally say a succession of coalition politicians killed over 500 Australians in Vietnam.
Sri Lanka is a tyranny? Pakistan is a tyranny? The only reason those people died was because Juliar changed our border protection laws and re-opened the people smuggling business Howard destroyed by making it unprofitable.
here policy, her responsibility.
2. I don’t know Julia Gillard – never met her. I don’t vote Labor.
Does not matter, you support her policy, and this is a give-away that you vote green. it’s a greenalp ‘government’ responsible for this. What I do not see is you calling for a return to the full suite of Howard’s policies which might stop teh killing.
Again, evidence of your racism – provided it’s only ‘little brown people’ dying, you just do not care.
3. Her “victims” don’t exist. The people who drowned (including the 353 who died on John Howard’s watch) came from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds.
And what they have in common is that they paid $8000-$15000 per passage to people smugglers whose business model Juliar and Bobby brown rebuilt after Howard destroyed it. BTW, the numbers DO NOT include those of SIEV X. And they are actually quite a lot higher than people think. There are boats that have gone missing which are not in that count.
What they had in common was their refugee status.
Illegal immigrants are not refugees. If they WERE refugees, they would keep their documents to prove that status, yes? They do not. They destroy their documents, a practise typical of illegal immigrants relocating for economic reasons. As teh Sri lankan government has told that cretin Julaire repeatedly, many, many LTTE terrorists are using the Australian escape route. Is, for example, a known LTTE torturer a ‘refugee’ to you, numbers? The Sri Lankans seized a boatful recent, and found nearly half were LTTE. And that SOB they have since hanged for his crimes. But to you, he’d be a refugee!
Sandyhook Connecticut is a long way away from us in Oz so I guess many of us can afford to make all kinds of rationalist assertions which tend to minimise the significance of what has happened.
But imagine if you will, a Port Arthur or Hoddle Street happening here every other year or smaller versions happening every six months or so. Imagine the prospect of these events happening year after year stretching into the future and then formulate arguments that make such a prospect appear acceptable even bearable to yourself and many others. Don’t think it can’t be done – it’s done with great alacrity and supported by many impressive statistics in America. Just turn on your TV now and watch and learn.
This is an assertion. Despite Abbott et al repeating it over and over again, it is not fact.
No, from 2001 to 2007, the highest number of boat arrivals in any year was 6. The mode was 1. In 2010 there were 134 arrivals. So boat arrivals increased by a factor of 27 in the first three years of the Rudd/Gillard government. Obviously, the global “displaced persons” count did not increase by a factor of 27. In fact there were about 40 million “displaced persons” in 2001, and roughly the same number at the end of the decade.
It is hilarious that you are citing a difference of a factor of four to condemn US gun laws, but ignoring a factor of 27 to run interference for Gillard’s asylum cock-up.
It’s been amusing watching our latest racist blaming the people who did not do anything wrong for the appalling acts of a madman in the USA, but the day is too nice to spend more of it dealing with racist internet vermin like Numbers.
So there are too many factors – so forget it. That’s a cowardly copout, and characteristic of the response of legislators too frightened to take on the NRA.
You and your ilk completely miss the point. You want to focus on gun ownership but the murder rate doesn’t go down with your suggest policy changes. That means the logic behind your policy changes is wrong, and you are simply pursuing an emotional agenda that won’t have any tangible benefits.
(Reuters) – Texas Governor Rick Perry called on state lawmakers on Tuesday to pass a bill banning late-term abortions, a controversial prohibition that has been pushed by anti-abortion activists since 2010…
Opponents of such proposals say they are based on unfounded science.
“And yet we see these bills proliferating across the country,” said Elizabeth Nash, state issues manager for the Guttmacher Institute, a research group that supports abortion rights. “It looks like this issue is one that state legislatures are going to be wrestling with for another year.”
But imagine if you will, a Port Arthur or Hoddle Street happening here every other year or smaller versions happening every six months or so.
Well, there’s about 15 times more people in the USA so you could assume there would be 15 times more of these events, all things being equal.
6 months or so x 15 = 7.5 years or so.
Yes, I haven’t got data handy but I think we pretty much have a tragedy like that every 7.5 years or so, and we should expect that to continue into the future even though we’ll do everything we can to stop it.
“Illegal immigrants” – a term invented in the USA to describe Latinos. It has no relevance in this country and is a nonsense description used by xenophobes to demonize refugees.
“First of all the Australian government makes no apologies whatsoever for deploying the most hardline measures necessary to deal with problems of illegal immigration into Australia,” Mr Rudd told ABC Radio today.
Julia Gillard:
Labor has belatedly tacked towards the Coalition – lurched to the right, in the terms Kevin Rudd used in his late-night pre-resignation press conference – by seeking an offshore processing centre. Gillard also described the asylum-seekers as illegal immigrants, denounced the people-smugglers as evil and made plain her desire to stop the boats.
An aside from rational debate numbers, I cannot ever look at a blog from an idiot who uses his service number as the title. It’s like the moron who gets his unit on his numberplate, or his corps motto tattooed on his shoulder. It just screams ‘fuckwit’.
Throw in the fact you probably served less than 24 months at best, 40 years ago, and have lived in normal Australian society ever since holding down normal jobs and families, just proves you are a screamer of the highest order.
“Illegal immigrants” – a term invented in the USA to describe Latinos.
Nope, it is used to describe people who do not have visas. So you got that wrong.
It has no relevance in this country and is a nonsense description used by xenophobes to demonize refugees.
No, none of the people on the boats are refugees (you still haven’t worked out the definition of that word, have you?) unless they prove otherwise, and as it is in fact against the law to arrive in Australia without a valid visa, according to the last three Prime Ministers.
Who should I believe? A crank who doesn’t understand math, or successive Prime Ministers from both parties?
Conn restrictive gun laws did nothing to keep them safe.
The killer’s mother had an assault weapon plus two glock hand guns in her house. The guns were bought legally and the assault rifle must have been purchased before their banning in the state. Were gun owners in Connecticut asked to hand in their military grade weapons after they became illegal? Obviously not. I assume that one little state’s restrictive gun laws wouldn’t stop someone from visiting a gun supermarket over the state border to get the type of weapon they are after.
You have to ask yourself why this woman, a teacher, felt the need to arm herself with an assault weapon as if the Taliban were camped outside her door. Two hand guns apparently were not enough to guarantee her peace of mind.
Perhaps he’s just so very proud to have served in Viet Nam, John.
Those guys who just did their job when asked tend to be quiet, steely types who simply get on with life. The sort of person you would describe as ‘salt of the earth’.
Y’know, in number’s town there is quite a reasonable sized Vietnam Vet community (considering it was 40 years ago), who tend to know each other. They don’t seem to know numbers for some reason. And I’m guessing they wouldn’t like him. Make of that what you will.
You have to ask yourself why this woman, a teacher, felt the need to arm herself with an assault weapon as if the Taliban were camped outside her door.
Maybe she felt a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, and the first part of achieving that would be to keep and bear arms.
You can’t tell the difference between causation and inference.
You big hypocritical Mary! You have absolutely nothing to back up your ridiculous assertion about boat arrivals, and the data is completely against you. Even the Labor Party has given up trying to defend this ludicrous position. I guess someone had to stay behind in the Führerbunker.
Probably because none of them were in my unit. The last one died a few years ago. You are displaying a very poor understanding of the returned community. They relate to common membership of a unit, because shared experiences came from that.
Now Numbers is comparing the NRA to a terrorist organisation that throws acid in the face of young women.
What the fool is saying is if you disagree with him then you’re as bad as the taliban, as bad as the shooter who killed 27 innocents today. He is saying that if you disagree with introducing legislation that will totally disarm law abiding citizens then you may as well have pulled the trigger today. This numbers person is not capable of reasoned thought.
Nice Gravitar Rabz. Are you a Who fan or like British aircraft roundels?
I’m a Who fan and an ex-modernist.
BTW – This thread has been completely ruined by that staggeringly stupid, self-obsessed, syphilitic, knob gobbling narcissistic bedwetting fat boomer fairy the fucking spud peeler.
Maybe she felt a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, and the first part of achieving that would be to keep and bear arms.
Then you must ask yourself just how well-regulated this militia-in-waiting really is when guns and assault weapons are left lying around militia households for any mentally disturbed person to happen upon on their way out the door intending to create mayhem. Even in Israel, where the need for a citizen militia is based on a real threat rather than paranoid fantasies and romantic notions of some future heroic resistance, guns are issued by the state only to settlers on the West Bank who must sign for them and store them securely in allocated locations when not being carried for self defence.
HUNDREDS of Australian women are mutilating their genitals each year by having cosmetic surgery driven by pornography, gynaecologists say.
Eh, that would be adult women choosing to have their bits surgically altered. I don’t think any are going for the labia removal option or getting their vaginas stitched shut.
Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists vice-president Ajay Rane said labiaplasties and vulvoplasties to reduce the size of a women’s genitals were ”the modern version of FGM (female genital mutilation)”.
See above, adults undergoing VOLUNTARY surgery.
Melbourne gynaecologist Sonia Grover said female genital mutilation, a practice in which girls’ genitals are cut and sometimes stitched together to narrow the vaginal opening, was rare in Australia.
Did we change subjects? Now we’re talking about something which is ILLEGAL.
Laws in every Australian state and territory make it an offence to perform such mutilation for cultural reasons. Associate Professor Grover said there was little evidence of the practice in Australia, but it was happening with Caucasian women and children.
Caucasian women and children are engaged in the ILLEGAL version? By Caucasian you mean white girls right, and they’re getting the illegal version you say Kate? (Freaking hell, “Caucasian”! Is that a race? A culture?)
I give up, here’s the rest…
Labiaplasties and vulvoplasties claimed on Medicare have more than doubled in Australia over the past decade – from 640 women in 2001 to 1558 last year. The biggest increase has been among women aged 15 to 24 years.
Professor Rane said far more women were having the surgeries than the Medicare data suggested, because they were done privately for about $3000 by cosmetic surgeons.
Australasian College of Cosmetic Surgery spokesman John Flynn said excessively protruding labia minora could cause distress for women and lead to rashes and infections. ”It’s gone unrecognised for a long time but girls have started to realise you can do something about it,” he said.
What a mutilated piece of journalism! (Where are you Prof Bunyip?)
Eddystone, re the 1902. If the barrel has been replaced it’s still no biggie, just part of the artifact’s history especially if it was used as a utility rifle on a farm for half a century! You’d expect a replacement barrel in those circumstances.
And the core of the rifle is the action anyway..
I’d certainly search Skennerton very carefully, and most certainly not discard any part of the rifle. It’s quite likely that the remaining furniture is original. After all, when sporterising, why replace the stock?
Right now you have a Boer War era rifle with a bit of the history known. That’s all good!
Also today the same journalist has authored Protecting daughters from primitive rites, a long article discussing real FMG but also discussing legal cosmetic surgery.
I’m hearing the gnns were officially owned by the mother. I’m betting the mother bought them for the killer under her name as a way of trying to please the little bastard.
I like having a rifle. It’s good for killing pigs and roos, and any other thing that needs killin’. Even beer cans.
But for the life of me I can’t understand the need for handguns or assault rifles. Their purpose is specifically to kill people. And thus should not be available to the public.
Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists vice-president Ajay Rane said labiaplasties and vulvoplasties to reduce the size of a women’s genitals were ”the modern version of FGM.
What a totally sick, truly disgusting comment.
He should be fired for saying that.
Gets back to my point in the last Open Thread about today’s sanctimonious medicos and what a bunch of ignorant quacks they are.
FGM is a way of debasing themselves (in our eyes) while they steal the enjoyment of their women. It’s what they do, and they do it for dominance. It is not “cosmetic”.
It is the belly of the beast.
But for the life of me I can’t understand the need for handguns or assault rifles. Their purpose is specifically to kill people. And thus should not be available to the public.
Personally I would like one, not for hunting, but for fishing.
I have been up close and personal with a feral pig and a feral dog up in prime trout country.
You don’t want to be in that situation. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt.
Assault rifle may be a misnomer. Why allow bow and arrows, edged martial arts weapons, etc?
Professor Rane obtained his MBBS in 1984 at the University Of Poona, India, graduating with a Doctor Of Medicine in 1987. He undertook Urogynaecology training in the United Kingdom before he moved to Townsville in 1997 where he founded the first Urogynaecology unit for regional north Queensland.
The other quoted is Associate Professor Sonia Grover. The article implies she said Caucasian women were seeking genital mutilation procedures. I wonder if Grover phrased it specifically like that.
Since the site was playing up this morning, I went and Did Stuff (watched Act of Valour, bought more pressies, wrapped more pressies, hung out with the new neighbours).
I’ve a question for numbers, since he likes to identify as a catholic. What is your position on euthanasia, what about capital punishment, and how do you reconcile the two?
We already know you’re cool with abortion (which is completely against the Magisterium but let’s not go there for now).
And back to the shooting, apart from his mother owning the guns, the shooter’s parents were separated,and apparently his father had recently remarried.
That’s got create some issues right there.
Of course, Alex Jones and co think that Lanza was trained by the CIA, but that’s par for the course.
Seems the only ‘seal of the confessional’ being upheld to the detriment of children is the one being run by the Labor Party
The schools referred the abuse to the police. Unlike the Catholic church they did not attempt to handle the complaint in house. They did not transfer the alleged abuser to another school in the state, interstate or overseas.
In South Australia it is illegal to publicly identify someone alleged of a sexually based crime until a certain stage of the court process has been reached. Whilst I think the cases the other parents should have been informed, in one of the cases the school community was not told of the allegations because a relative of the abuser (presumably a child) also attended the school and they were trying to balance the impact the school’s community right to know against the impact the news would have on an innocent party.
Maybe she felt a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, and the first part of achieving that would be to keep and bear arms.
Well that worked out well for her. Not only was she killed by someone using her own guns but so were many of the children she taught.
Don’t have Quadrophonia. But Who’s Next would be hard to beat.
I would strongly recommend a purchase of said album. I was all about Who’s Next since the age of about 14. Then I discovered Quadrophenia and it became apparent to me that Townshend’s genius was no fluke.
I reckon the Stones have two in the 70s top ten, Sticky Fingers and Exile. So what is the rest of the top ten?
Other candidates for me..
Yes – Close to the Edge
Thin Lizzy – Black Rose
ELP – Tarkus
Genesis – The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Santana – Abraxas
King Crimson – Red
Rush – Hemispheres
Kraftwerk – Autobahn
UFO – Lights Out
Floyd – Dark Side of the Moon
Queen – A Night at the Opera
Sure, and the 9/11 deaths were equivalent to about a month’s worth of car crashes for the US. And look at the magnitude of response they had to those.
That depends on your perspective of the casualty count and the financial cost. My personal perspective is that although Afghanistan and Iraq were/are morally quite OK, the cost/benefit ratio does not make it worth it. The US casualty count was simply too high, let alone the financial cost.
Having said that some people would say a cost of 6000 casualties (I don’t know the accurate figure) was acceptable.
Having said that, I would support a large program along the lines of what Mossad would have done. But some other people don’t find that morally acceptable.
For what it’s worth, if you take Switzerland as the example and compare it to other defence forces, European and otherwise, I think there is a very solid case for a militia approach vs the large standing defence force approach using a cost/benefit analysis.
Go Anne! Sometimes in the car I observe approvingly via the vanity mirror (well named) and by discreet placement of fingers how I’d look sans wrinkles of life.
Led Zeppelin – Physical Graffiti
Sex Pistols – Bollocks
Queen – Queen II, Night at the Opera
Dylan – Blood on the Tracks
Kinks – Lola, Muswell Hillbillies
The seventies was possibly the most abysmal decade in human history kulcha wise, but here’s some of my nominations*:
Bowie – Aladdin Sane & Young Americans
The Velvets – Loaded (just)
XTC – Drums ‘n’ Wires & Go 2
Keith Hudson – Pick a Dub
Iggy and the Stooges – Raw Power
*Excluding the Who, the Stones and others already nominated.
The schools referred the abuse to the police. Unlike the Catholic church they did not attempt to handle the complaint in house. They did not transfer the alleged abuser to another school in the state, interstate or overseas.
In South Australia it is illegal to publicly identify someone alleged of a sexually based crime until a certain stage of the court process has been reached. Whilst I think the cases the other parents should have been informed, in one of the cases the school community was not told of the allegations because a relative of the abuser (presumably a child) also attended the school and they were trying to balance the impact the school’s community right to know against the impact the news would have on an innocent party.
Abridged version: it’s OK when Labor governments do it.
Dunno about the “just”. It’s a great album however contains a couple of tracks that don’t stand the test of time.
That’s the case with all VU albums. Stooges’ albums are the same. Lucky in the digital age we can make our own best of albums.
There are not many albums without a weak track or two. Maybe Let it Bleed and a couple of Stones’ live albums – Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out and Some Girls – Live in Texas ’78.
The seventies was possibly past 40 years were the most abysmal decades in human history kulcha music wise
* Cream
* Yardbirds
* Spencer Davis Group
* Hendrix
* Pink Floyd
…have never been bettered. Just as well you understood the brilliance of the Who, Rabzie. We’re just about due for another great musical era (although it must be admitted there was a fair gap between Mozart and Presley and the Beatles)
To be honest, most of my favourite ever albums are from the early eighties.
Almost every great album was made between 1965 and 1975 – the greatest decade of music. 1980 – 89 was the worst. I don’t listen to anything made after 1979.
Tom, the reason I was a Mod was because of my love of Sixties music. My first ever musical memories are of my sister blasting the Stones, the Who, the Kinks, the Yardbirds, Small Faces, Iggy, Lou and Bowie.
I later discovered Motown, Psychadelia and modern Jazz following the punk youthquake in the late seventies.
The eighties saw some great music, including many albums without a dud track.
For example – are you familiar with Naz Nomad and the Nightmares’* “Give daddy the knife, Cindy”?
My first ever musical memories are of my sister blasting the Stones, the Who, the Kinks, the Yardbirds, Small Faces, Iggy, Lou and Bowie.
I later discovered Motown, Psychadelia and modern Jazz following the punk youthquake in the late seventies.
As a youth, I was production editor of an Adelaide-based national rock mag/fanzine through the punk era (“Roadrunner”). I also worked in the same building as the Kelly sisters (Gabrielle, Kate and Fran The Activist) as a writer on a leftwing arts magazine called Get Out in Don Dunstan’s Adelaide. Most of it is too embarrassing in hindsight. I must now press “submit comment” as a purgative.
Rabz
we are on the ame wavelength – musiz in the 60s and 70s wa sso great and so lightly imperfect.Never heard that one! Soon as they switched to computer mixing music went just so sterilely perfect…it got boring.
I like it Rabz, I imagine you patrolling the sky for Zeros and Messerschmidt and the Russian types, shooting them down when they dare to approach. You know, like the Steve’s and so forth.
This Year’s Model: Costello at his bitchy best ‘Now that you picture’s in the paper being rhythmically admired’
Ultravox! : In the John Foxx era when this was the band that musicians listened to- ‘I want to be a machine’
The Psychomodo; Cockney Rebel doing things that were not done by anyone else in the year the rest of the world was beig boringly bluesy: ‘Masturbation, getting off, you can stick you ideals up a nothing new’
Aladin Sane: Bowie showing all how it was done- “time falls wanking to the floor’
A Tonic for Troops: Geldof before he became so precious “It’s a rat trap , Billy, and you’ve been caught’
Three Imaginary Boys: Robert Smith making music that sounded like no-one else, before the drugs and the make-up climed him: ‘F-i-r-e-i-n-Ca-i-r-o’
All Mod Cons: The Jam being a little less strident and more lyrical: ‘faraway places and faraway trains
Chairs Missing: Wire, the true begetters of punk “Up in my bedroom I’ve got Sraah Berhardt’s hand’
Look Sharp!: Joe Jackson’s new wave classic debut: “if wanna know about the new sex position, you can read it in the Sunday papers”
London Calling: A lot of agitprop crap but Mick Jones just couldn’t help being good and the title track is the quintessential E minor rock song. ‘If London is drowning then I live by the river’
Takin Tiger Mountain (by Strategy): Eno, who with the Beatles and Bowie influenced all who came after much more than any of the stadium rockers of the 60s and 70s. “If affairs are proceeding as we’re expecting soon enough the weak spots will show.”
Drums and Wires gets an honorary mention, but the problem with XTC was that they always overdid their hooks.
Nilk, I like their version of Born to be Wild. I think it’s the best. I remember when Slade came to Australia. My Sister was a huge fan. She had the platfrom shoes, glitter on the face and satin bell bottoms. The only way she was allowed to see them was that our Mum had to accompany her. Apparently she had a good time but was deaf for a few days.
I only discovered Slade Alive in my 20s (ie the 90s) because they were a favourite of the company I was keeping those days. He was a big fan and introduced me to a lot of good stuff.
But for the life of me I can’t understand the need for handguns or assault rifles. Their purpose is specifically to kill people. And thus should not be available to the public.
Personally I would like one, not for hunting, but for fishing.
I have been up close and personal with a feral pig and a feral dog up in prime trout country.
You don’t want to be in that situation. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt.
Can anyone help me here? Do I need a game licence?
Firstly, Tom, you are a star. Your taste is impeccable, and you are not the only one whose political affiliations in the 70s are now a bit of an embarrassment. Then again, it shows that at least we have the capacity to learn and change. The people I worry about are those who make up their minds when they are very young and set them in stone.
Secondly, for once I agree with RC about something – Taking Tiger Mountain and Another Green World (Eno) are so far ahead of their time, and beyond time, that they rank as examples of genius (IMO).
I’ll stop counting, but keep droning on. I was lucky enough to see Radio Birdman and The Saints live many times – once together at the Paddo Town Hall. There is a poor quality but memorable video available (in segments) on You Tube. Oh, and I have the poster, which I intend to sell for a motza when I am broke in my old age.
I still play my Stooges albums. I Just Wanna Be Your Dog is a particular favourite, as is Raw Power in its entirety. Definitely prefer the vinyl versions, even though they are scratched to buggery. Warmth of sound, etc. Can’t someone in this age of technical whizzbangery find a way to replicate that for digital technology?
Lists are always problematic, but I wouldn’t reject most of the nominations, although I greatly prefer the Stones’ early work. Who’s Next is undoubtedly up there – and I have Slade Alive and play that too. Darlin’ Be Home Soon is great (“all the drunken lads can shout anything they like. It all adds to the atmosphere.”) But a track called something like Know Who You Are is also well worth a listen.
I consider myself so lucky to have been young between 1960 and 1980, a period of unparalleled explosion of talent and creativity in popular music. My old man had juke boxes as part of his business, and my singles collection is to die for!
Speaking of singles, Eric Burdon and the Animals. ‘When I Was Young’ is one of the most achingly beautiful songs about growing up in bleak, working class Britain ever.
I used to spend a few hazy nights with some mates debating the meaning of the lyrics of songs. We decided only Bobby Fischer would be able to escape the white Queen.
The Yes Album. The only one I own, and Your Move is awesome.
Tom, please keep posting clips. I can’t remember – who did the original version? – I dimly recall that it was pretty good too.
Not sure why Led Zep IV was not on any of the lists. “Levee”, loud and on a good sound system, still shakes me to the core. It is also very descriptive of the aftermath of Katrina.
FAIRFAX MEDIA is reportedly selling its remaining stake in Trade Me for about $650 million.
If the sale were to proceed, it would pay down the company’s debts considerably.
Thanks, Laz, you are right. Burdon was a scrawny, undernourished plumber’s apprentice with the voice and sensibility of a true bluesman. The House of the Rising Sun was his biggest hit, and is still on jukeboxes, but there were several more and at least equally good songs.
Tom, there are Dylan fans and there are the rest. Fraid I’m one of the rest. I like some of his early stuff, but must say that I find the notion of an elderly, rich, white Jew impersonating an old style black blues singer unconvincing, to say the least. Not to mention that the Led Zep version has John Bonham demonstrating why he is possibly the greatest drummer of his era.
Someone upthread mentioned Pink Floyd. ‘Set the Controls’ etc still thrills me. It is as iconic as Hal in ’2001′ and Bowie’s Major Tom in terms of space travel art. Their body of work is comparable to any of the classic composers, IMO.
Came to this late.
Sickening thing this murder of innocents in Connecticut.
Beyond politics or ideology.
But look back through this thread and see who first raised and politicised it.
……
On a lighter note (kind of) …. saw a doco last night on Freddy Mercury ….. that man could buy and sell most of the “musical legends” being thrown up on this thread.
Leigh, it was “Freddie”, so I take it that you have come into this discussion without a clue, as usual.
He was a very good singer with an operatic range and style, and Queen were a very accomplished band. Claiming that he could buy and sell the other greats under discussion is just dumb.
I didn’t like Dylan until he reinvented himself. He’s an awesome musician and arranger. Modern Times is one of the Greatest Albums of the past 50 years, IMO. (His rhythm guitarist Stu Kimball is also a friend from Nashville, where I lived in ’07.)
The Yes Album. The only one I own, and Your Move is awesome.
The Yes Album is brilliant. Yours Is No Disgrace is my favourite, along with Perpetual Change. It was in my parents collection for a long time before I listened to it and it literally changed my life, along with Who’s Next. Those albums taught me that rock music could be complex and literate and still rock at the same time.
I love Zeppelin, but lyrically Robert Plant was like a meth head reading The Hobbit.
Welcome to wanktasia. Make yourself comfortable because this song is 12 minutes long and we have no clue what it means. Awesome riff and bass line though. Enjoy.
Hate to break up the little reminiscing party here, but the majority of bands quoted were fronted and populated by clapped out drug funked hippie types who, frankly, made complete arseholes out of themselves, some of whom took so many drugs they either committed suicide or just plain dropped dead, who struggled to release a whole albums worth of good material over decades.
Robert Plant’s greatest claim to fame is starring in a super8 video stuffing fish parts into a womans parts. Sound like somebody you would worship? Daltrey got around in a cape and threw televions out the window. Brilliant!
How nice. The Lying Slapper is given her own promotional spread in the Sydney Sun-Herald to show us the latest version of the Real Julia …oh, and AbbottAbbottAbbott:
In a warning aimed at negative political campaigns, the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, has aired her concern at the emotional toll faced by Peter Slipper in the fallout from the speaker affair.
After what she admits has been a brutal year in politics, Ms Gillard said she was ”concerned about Peter Slipper as a human being” caught ”in the eye of a media storm”.
Mr Slipper made some ”grievous errors, including his offensive texts [but] he has a family, he is human, and he has been under stress and strain”, Ms Gillard said in an exclusive interview with Fairfax Media.
Ms Gillard has no doubts about who was to blame for the brutal year in politics, which included the Craig Thomson affair, the asylum seeker issue, the Peter Slipper-James Ashby case and the AWU slush fund.
”All of it was the decision and style of the opposition under Tony Abbott,” she said. ”They will always go for the negative and go in hard against the individual. I think Australians are heartily sick of such politics, and next year will offer voters a real choice.”
Meanwhile, Fairfax has to sell the only profitable bit of the business to pay down nearly $1 billion in debt while it talks up its fabulously fabulous digital business, which is doing little more than collapsing group revenue (it’s still only 10% of turnover, FFS, because it relies on junk advertising revenue, which is only a fraction of old media rates). But it’s all good.
Re the love-up piece in the Sun-Herald (haven’t seen it, not in Sydney, can’t bear to look anyway).
Gillard is absolutely shameless.
And the press are complicit in it, which can fool quite a lot of people some of the time. If they manage to return us another four years of this scheming harriden and her corrupt government perhaps then more people will see the light and lay some blame. Perhaps circulation figures suggest more and more people are doing that already.
THE price of fresh produce in Victoria is expected to soar from 2014, when wholesalers face big rent increases and a lack of space at the new $600 million fruit and vegetable market in Epping.
While average rents will rise by 65 per cent at the new complex, many traders said they faced a twofold increase in costs if they moved to smaller stands at Epping, which would be passed on to consumers.
”We’ll have to put those costs back to the client. What choice do we have?” said Sculli & Co director Phillip Basile, who estimated the price of some fruit and vegetables could rise by more than 30 per cent.
Mr Basile said many family businesses would be ruined by the rent increases, which would also undermine Victoria’s competitiveness with other states.
”I’ve got a 16-year-old son who wants to come into the business, but I’ve had to put a stop to that,” Mr Basile said.
The disaster-prone relocation of the market to Melbourne’s north has been further hampered by the sudden resignation on Thursday of Melbourne Market Authority chief executive Allan Crosthwaite, who was responsible for overseeing the move from West Melbourne.
Mr Crosthwaite announced his departure on the same day traders were informed of the sharp rent increases for new leases at Epping. He said the timing of his resignation was a coincidence and he had told MMA chairman Neil Lowe of his decision to accept another job a week earlier.
The development is already six years behind schedule and more than $300 million over budget, which recently attracted criticism from the auditor-general in a scathing review of Major Projects Victoria.
Sam Cutrale of TC Produce estimated the cost of some fruit and vegetables could rise by as much as 50 per cent, when the market opens in July 2014.
Splat and Nilk, we are on the same musical wavelength. Though I will always believe (and Oldfield himself conceded on the basis of sales) that TB2003 was an abortus of monumental polyploidy, and the original was in many ways the better work.
Contrary to what anyone would have you believe, it’s not just a cleaner version without the early-70s electronic patchwork; it’s a sometimes not-so-subtle reimagining. IMO Tubular Bells 2, a deliberate, more overt, and subsequently more liberated rewrite, was far better – and the less said about “Tubular Bells 3″, the better. The last line from Far Above the Clouds says it all”
“And nothing was ever heard from him again, except for the sound of tubular bells.”
At which point even I, Oldfield junkie that I was, had to exclaim “God spare us.”
…clapped out drug funked hippie types who, frankly, made complete arseholes out of themselves, some of whom took so many drugs they either committed suicide or just plain dropped dead…
Perturbed I’m a purist. I’ve never listened to the re-imagined Tubular Bells. I first heard it as a child in sunny Ingleburn (!) where it was being played by the kids’ next door’s father.
There was no need for a remake, so I see no need to listen to one.
Kind of like the way I’ve never seen the digital ‘remaster’ of any of the original Star Wars movies.
“And nothing was ever heard from him again, except for the sound of tubular bells.”
At which point even I, Oldfield junkie that I was, had to exclaim “God spare us.”
I think it was a bit of a rip off of Pink Floyd’s Wall “Look mummy, there’s an airplane up in the sky” and “If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pudding”.
Those effervescent geniuses of the left in Britain brought in draconian restrictions on honest law abiding people after a lunatic murdered mahy at Dunblane.
yay!
Look how brilliantly that’s turned out. Only an 89% increased in gun crime and gangs running wild.
And yet, every time some nut does a Dunblane, the left insist on blaming and trying to punish the people who did not do it, for the benefit of criminals and street gangs.
leftism is a mental disease.
Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.
The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year – a rise of 89 per cent.
In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.
In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.
The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.
Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.
Imagine trying to make that film clip in Melbourne today? They’d have received 15 traffic infringements and been shot by the TRG before they even got a quarter of the way up Swanston.
The lead signer has the greatest haircut, moustache and jeans print. Ever. Of all time.
Any hair works with great bone structure but his jeans look like pajamas for a four year old. The Indian chief is pretty cool but you know the leftists would scream “OFFENSIVE”!!!
Have you wondered why, in such a target rich environment as a suburban shopping mall two weeks before Christmas, the shooter at the Clackamas Town Center only managed to kill two people before dousing his own lights? Part of the reason was a dodgy gun. But as is being reported by kgw.com, part was also due to the fact that, gun-free zone or not, Jacob Roberts was confronted by Nick Meli who was armed and has a concealed carry permit. No, he didn’t fire because he feared hitting an innocent person behind Roberts if he missed. But Roberts knew Meli was there: “I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.” David Frum was unavailable for comment.
Perhaps the most perfect album of all time was released in ’76… Return to Forever’s Romantic Warrior.
A taste
I’m a huge fan of 70′s jazz fusion. The Romantic Warrior is definitely in my collection, as are albums by the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brand X and Herbie Hancock.
@ Mk50
Let’s get a few gun facts straight. Handguns are made to maim and kill people. Anyone using a handgun to protect their home is an idiot. A handgun round would more likely go through the wall or window and stands as much chance of killing a child or neighbour as hitting a crook. Trained police and military have a hard time getting hits in an excited and confusing confrontation, good luck to an idiot like Harry Carry homeowner.
Suggesting teachers carry handguns is ludicrous. Next the gun wankers will be advocating lowering the age of concealed carry to include toddlers. That’s the logical extension of the “arm yourself” meme.
And you reckon you’ll get the first shot in a street confrontation or carjacking? Good luck Harry Carry. An armed crook would be ready. You wouldn’t be. Pulling out a weapon against someone that has the drop on you would most likely result in your funeral.
In this relatively safe community, your chances of getting robbed or mugged, is pretty small. The greater chance is shooting yourself, a loved one, a friend, a neighbour, or your kids or their friends shooting themselves. Another real possibility is having your gun taken away from you or stolen and used to kill someone else. That is precisely what happened at Sandy Hook.
Hand guns are people killers. They are easily hidden. Handguns are exponentially used more to harm innocent people than to save or help them. They are a threat to public health and safety
If you are paranoid about protecting yourself, get a shotgun. For that tiny delusional segment of the population out there that worship these killing machines, who feel they may have to repulse a foreign invader, get over it.
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years. Unfortunately I turned out to be a good shot, which was probably influencial in my posting as Infantry rifleman. I was very pleased to get rid of it. The army didn’t stuff about. They made very sure we knew these things were killing machines, and trained us to treat them accordingly under pain of severe penalties if we didn’t.
I saw a few gun nuts come in with my Nasho intake. They were swiftly identified by the NCOs and came in for heightened vigilance and special treatment if they stuffed up. They did, much more than average. I don’t know which came first – their wankers’ attitude to firearms, or their below average IQs.
Very few ended up in Infantry. They were a risk to themselves and everyone around them.
Anyone using a handgun to protect their home is an idiot. A handgun round would more likely go through the wall or window and stands as much chance of killing a child or neighbour as hitting a crook. Trained police and military have a hard time getting hits in an excited and confusing confrontation, good luck to an idiot like Harry Carry homeowner.
Bullshit.
Very few ended up in Infantry. They were a risk to themselves and everyone around them.
Morgan Freeman’s brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
TURN OFF THE NEWS
“You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.
It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.
CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”
Ms Gillard has no doubts about who was to blame for the brutal year in politics, which included the Craig Thomson affair, the asylum seeker issue, the Peter Slipper-James Ashby case and the AWU slush fund.
”All of it was the decision and style of the opposition under Tony Abbott,” she said. ”They will always go for the negative and go in hard against the individual. I think Australians are heartily sick of such politics, and next year will offer voters a real choice.”
She really is a morally deranged, clinically dishonest tramp.
Mr.Cox would probably prefer that any necessary culling be left to the “professionals” like the clowns from the National Parks and Wildlife Service who did such a sterling job culling feral horses in the Guy Fawkes National Park In 2000.Using helicopters and semi-auto rifles they managed to leave a trail of wounded animals to die a slow and painful death.
Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine?
If the media must insist on naming these dicks, they could at least do the right thing and prefix their names with “Loser”.
“Loser Tim Smith was today found dead at Springfield High. Police spokesman Seamus O’Flaherty reports that witnesses all agreed he was a loser with a micro penis.”
These school shootings are exactly like LA police chases. They have spiked purely because of the publicity they garner.
LABOR is waiting for legal advice before it decides whether to call an inquiry into the sexual harassment case against former speaker Peter Slipper, amid revelations chief Coalition whip Warren Entsch knew about the allegations before they emerged in the media.
Leader of the House Anthony Albanese said it was “extraordinary” that Mr Entsch was aware of the harassment allegations by James Ashby before they appeared in the press.
He said they reinforced claims of a conspiracy involving senior Coalition members who had plotted to take down the Gillard government.
Entsch knew before the media.
Wow. And?
Lying turd Albanese says his nazi inquiry into the Opposition won’t be political:
“It needs to be gotten right in terms of not a political process, in terms of trying to be a witch-hunt, but an administrative process that gets those details right so the facts can be out there so that it can be done in a proper way so we do have some transparency to it.”
Very few ended up in Infantry. They were a risk to themselves and everyone around them.
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years. Unfortunately I turned out to be a good shot, which was probably influencial in my posting as Infantry rifleman.
- from numbers.
Bullshit, on both counts. You live in a 40+ year old fantasy world.
I encourage everyone to have a look at accidental death statistics for both disease and accidents in the USA and Australia just by using Google, ABS and Wikipedia. It really puts things in perspective.
An Australian is around 3.3 times more likely to die of suicide than an American is likely to be murdered by a firearm.
An Australian is 2.5 to 37 times more likely to die of one of these diseases than an American is to be murdered by a firearm (these are the leading diseases causes of death in Australia according to ABS):
Ischaemic heart diseases
Cerebrovascular diseases
Dementia and Alzheimer disease
Trachea, bronchus and lung cancer
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Colon, sigmoid, rectum and anus cancer
Diabetes
Blood and lymph cancer (including leukaemia)
Heart failure
Diseases of the urinary system
Prostate Cancer
Breast cancer
Pancreatic cancer
Influenza and pneumonia
Intentional self-harm
Skin cancers
Hypertensive diseases
Accidental falls
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver
Cardiac arrhythmias
Even an American is more likely to be murdered by some other means than a firearm.
IMO hoping for a balanced approach to responsible gun policy in the US is so difficult as Americans seemed to have turned gun ownership into a fetish.
For many people in the US guns have become
- an integral part of their personal and national identity
- a symbol of patriotism and personal liberty
- a bulwark against future tyranny
- the only shield against danger
- a primary recreational activity
In reflective moments I wonder how many Americans ask themselves how healthy it is to have elevated an instrument of killing to such a central position in their lives and philosophy.
And yet, Viva, they’ve achieved substantially more than pretty much all other nations on the planet! There must be something right in their approach, not just to guns but generally speaking.
It appears the Labor Government is now seeking nominations for spending FY1314 budget.
What then is the purposes of all those bureaucrats in every Federal department, the Treasury, Finance, and other major groups devoted to such activities?
Another brilliant Swan idea, let us ask every Rent Seeker to tell us how much they want for their wish list of earmarked spending.
I assume however, Quadrant magazine won’t make the short list given the recent Literature Board decisions to cut funding.
And yet, Viva, they’ve achieved substantially more than pretty much all other nations on the planet! There must be something right in their approach, not just to guns but generally speaking.
Americans’ central value is liberty – to be free of constraints to achieve and be what you want in life even if it means some have to sink if they cannot swim. And yes this has released tremendous dynamism and creativity. But the desire for freedom has a dark side in which anarchic hyperindividualistic impulses can sometimes subsume the social constraints associated with civilised communal living. I believe this is what we are seeing in the wilful intransigance over any constraints on guns.
Numbers – the gift that keeps on giving many laughs:
Let’s get a few gun facts straight.
That’s a first from this idiot.
Handguns are made to maim and kill people.
False as stated. Most handguns, and nearly all ammo for them, are used on ranges. The 50s B competitions, for example, use thousands of rounds a weekend and everyone has a great time. It’s a social sporting event with nary a corpse to be seen.
Anyone using a handgun to protect their home is an idiot.
False as stated. A brief examination of US media will show many people saving their lives from violent armed home invasions, mostly by methamphetamine users. Numbers thinks it’s idiotic to save your life in these circumstances.
The idiot here is Numbers, as usual.
A handgun round would more likely go through the wall or window and stands as much chance of killing a child or neighbour as hitting a crook. Trained police and military have a hard time getting hits in an excited and confusing confrontation, good luck to an idiot like Harry Carry homeowner.
Compeltely speculative. Also not in accordance with reality. Military and police are poorly trained on handguns. The pistol license holders I know spend at least one day a month at the range and routinely use 100 rounds in a session. The police requalify with 30% of that monthly expenditure rounds once a year. real enthusiasts, like teh 50sB mob, meet once a forthnight and routinely use 1000 rounds each, which is why the club together for autoloaders. I’m qualified on F88 and 9mm. F88 is one range day a year and 36 rounds, then 36 more in the LF9 test. When I go to the range I normally take 4 rifles and normally use 300 .22 rounds, 50 .22 magnum and 100 .303 rounds. That’s a normal month.
I work with law enforcement daily, and they are poorly trained and poor markemen, with cheap firearms.
Suggesting teachers carry handguns is ludicrous. Next the gun wankers will be advocating lowering the age of concealed carry to include toddlers. That’s the logical extension of the “arm yourself” meme.
An extension fallacy in logic which invalidates the point.
Poor Numbers, ever wonder why, in the US and elsewhere, lunatics commit their crimes in specified ‘gun free zones’? it’s to guarantee the helplessness of their targets. After Maalot, the Israelis armed their teachers. The only attack on a school since was terminated by an armed student.
SO it actually works, whereas your reliance on ‘magical thinking’ merely gives the lunatics more target choices.
And you reckon you’ll get the first shot in a street confrontation or carjacking? Good luck Harry Carry. An armed crook would be ready. You wouldn’t be. Pulling out a weapon against someone that has the drop on you would most likely result in your funeral.
Again, reality (and innumerable US media reports) give the lie to this statement. Crims are rarely trained, you see, and are often highly unstable due to drug wiithdrawal – and that gives opportunity to a trained man or woman. One sees that routinely in police reports, so your point is, again, ‘magical thinking’. it also ignores deterrence effects.
In this relatively safe community, your chances of getting robbed or mugged, is pretty small. The greater chance is shooting yourself, a loved one, a friend, a neighbour, or your kids or their friends shooting themselves. Another real possibility is having your gun taken away from you or stolen and used to kill someone else. That is precisely what happened at Sandy Hook.
Youa re comparing Australia to the US in a meaningless way again.
You are sufficiently unintelligent that I expect this, however, and can now point it out and laugh at your stupidity. BTW, the last ACC briefing report noted an estimate of 16,000 semi-auto handguns in criminal hands on the eastern seaboard, all bar an insignificant number smuggled in, not stolen from law-abiding owners.
Hand guns are people killers. They are easily hidden. Handguns are exponentially used more to harm innocent people than to save or help them. They are a threat to public health and safety
Another logical falalcy. Repeating your unsubstantiated opinions does not a fact make.
If you are paranoid about protecting yourself, get a shotgun. For that tiny delusional segment of the population out there that worship these killing machines, who feel they may have to repulse a foreign invader, get over it.
Strawman. Also note the extremely emotive use of words. lacking logic, facts or an argument at all, the leftard falls back on what it knows best, highly wrought emotion and an emotional play. In fact there are millions of registered firearms in the nation and membership of the SSAA has grown rapidly since the Howard gun buyback. About 15% of the population are registered gun owners. Since teh gun buyback, then, one would expect many more Hoddle Streets and so forth if the leftard was correct. This has not occurred, giving the lie to the leftard’s overwrought ‘drama queen’ hysterics here.
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years. Unfortunately I turned out to be a good shot, which was probably influencial in my posting as Infantry rifleman. I was very pleased to get rid of it. The army didn’t stuff about. They made very sure we knew these things were killing machines, and trained us to treat them accordingly under pain of severe penalties if we didn’t.
So the routine safety training meant to ensure safety when exhausted and stressed scared you. Poor diddums. As someone trained on 7.62mm L1A1, 5.56mm F88, 9mm F1, 9mm Browning, Minimi, .50 MG, 40mm bofors, 4.5″ and 5″, plus full demolitions quals, I can only regard your words here as laughably hysterical. Oh, I’ve been an instructor and RSO as well.
I saw a few gun nuts come in with my Nasho intake. They were swiftly identified by the NCOs and came in for heightened vigilance and special treatment if they stuffed up. They did, much more than average. I don’t know which came first – their wankers’ attitude to firearms, or their below average IQs.
If you were such a patronising moron, no wonder you were regarded as an idiot (that’s froma few of your init mates BTW). The reason an instructor watches someone already familiar with firearms more than the others has nothing to do with the drivel you posted above, you pathetic clown.
It’s because they have to unlearn what they know and relearn new procedures. Teach a dozen L1A1 trained personnel the F88 and this becomes very clear.
it’s obvious that you being an idiot, you mistook the actions of good instructors in ‘untrain-retrain’ mode to be ‘special attention to the scum I despise’.
Thank you for so clearly and publicly illustrating just how great a patronising fool your really are, Numbers.
Now, I have greatly enjoyed this fisking, and I hope the normal denizens of the Cat do too, but the pool beckons.
Viva,I completely agree with that summary, and also agree the main risk regarding private firearms ownership is human impulsive behaviour. There is a cost to doing anything. But I also believe the cost/benefit analysis of promoting an individualistic society where the individual is empowered, versus a ‘communal’ society where the individual is constrained in the interests of the ‘common good’ shows that the former is better than the latter. The Americans understand this.
I also don’t see the logic of how you can construct a society if you don’t believe people can be trusted. What sort of logic is it to believe that there’s people out there just waiting to kill me but I’ve fortunately been able to deny them the means through law? I also don’t believe that you really can with any certainty deny them the means through law.
Johanna, Zeppelin are possibly the worst of the white blues rockers. To add insult, they stole credit for lyrics.
———————–
Them’s fightin’ words, Abu. Of course everybody ripped off everybody else during the creative explosion of 1960-80. But, when it comes to “Mannish Boy”, for example, there are dozens of versions, mostly not attributed. Some made money, some didn’t. As Muddy Waters said – it’s the same old thing.
To suggest that a bunch of exceptionally talented musicians at the top of their game are ‘the worst’ is just ridiculous. OK, you don’t like them. I don’t like Queen. But (see my post way above) I don’t claim that they are terrible or incompetent. On the contrary.
That reminds me – we have a bit of a rainstorm coming here – time to put on ‘Levee’ and annoy the neighbours with possibly the best piece of drumming in popular music.
But the desire for freedom has a dark side in which anarchic hyperindividualistic impulses can sometimes subsume the social constraints associated with civilised communal living.
The antidote is the Australian way!
Here, adults are detained by the police for riding a bike to the shop sans helmet.
Detained by the police.
No society should ever allow only the police to own and carry firearms.
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics. Is this supposed to convince us it’s OK to live in a society like the US where you know most people around you carry guns and are prepared to shoot first and ask questions later, where depressed and angry individuals are also probably armed and have ready access to military grade weapons, where these threats are in addition to armed gangs and lone crims who are also armed to the teeth.
It’s almost as if you feel you must divert yourselves from the simple statistics we are faced with today – 20 dead little kids – by burying yourself in facts and figures while accusing others – God forbid – of being merely emotional.
But I also believe the cost/benefit analysis of promoting an individualistic society where the individual is empowered, versus a ‘communal’ society where the individual is constrained in the interests of the ‘common good’ shows that the former is better than the latter
.
But John any civil society is perforce subject to constraints – even in Iron Age villages people were subject to cultural rules and the headship of the village chief or they got chucked out. Today we have the rule of law, a police force, customary rules of civilised behaviour that make it possible for large numbers of people to live in peace side by side. It is only the degree to which we are subject to rules and laws that is under discussion surely.
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics.
Well, we both feel differently on how to react to this issue. How else are we going to say “this is how we should deal with this matter because the evidence says it will work”.
I wouldn’t be happy to live in a society that formulated policy based solely on emotional and whim of the moment, because it leads to crap outcomes. And I have kids and they’re the centre of my life.
This US town basically has no connection to the nation. It’s Canada through and through.
Hyder is notable for being the only place in Alaska not to use the 907 area code, instead using British Columbia’s 250. Tourists also find that Hyder uses the Pacific Time Zone, the “preferred” currency is Canadian (except the U.S. Post Office, which accepts only American currency), observes Canadian holidays, send their children to a Canadian school,[9] and calling the police means a Canadian Mountie will respond[citation needed]. Electricity comes from Canada, as the local electric utility is British Columbia’s BC Hydro.[3] Hyder and Stewart share a mutual international Chamber of Commerce.[10]
But John any civil society is perforce subject to constraints – even in Iron Age villages people were subject to cultural rules and the headship of the village chief or they got chucked out.
That doesn’t mean they had could living standards or achieved their potential. As human beings lifted their condition from the mud to the stars human, there was were two main themes:
1. Human beings turning to reason over the other means of making decisions e.g. using statistics rather than emotions or religion or luck
2. A move away from village blanket rules to ones of individual rights, privacy and individual choice.
If we hadn’t of done these things we’d still be living in grass huts sacrificing virgins to the volcano god.
The US murder rate is now lower than at anytime in the last 50 years. Crime rates outside of black neighbourhoods and cities are plummeting and yet the US has been on a decade long gun buying splurge.
I would have thought statistics are quite useful in arguing that gun ownership is not causing a murderous spree across the US. The exact opposite is in fact happening.
The massacre of those children is a heartbreaking tragedy. If we want to prevent such things from happening again we’d be safer identifying socially awkward loners and locking them all up than outlawing guns.
I dawdle in for a look and the first body I trip over is Numbers the Courageous, yet again giving his life (this time as a renowned brave expert marksman – ummm – self proclaimed) to educate the ignorant with his expertise as a uniformed warrior on the gun issue.
If it had been a knife killing he might well have regaled us with unverifiable tales of his swordmanship. On horseback.
It was a touch over 9 months in Vietnam as I recall, which endowed him with his delusional omniscience (certainly not “a couple of years”, nice sleight of hand there).
If I wanted a discussion about guns with Vietnam blokes I’d speak to the several mates who were regular soldiers and airmen for 40 odd years (with multiple appearances at the Asian Games of the ’60s and other places since) who would, I venture, back away slowly from Numbers and head for the bar even if it wasn’t their shout, for fear of catching something snarlingly nasty.
I’ll escape his presence too and head over to the surf club to have a beer with them, good blokes all and a couple whose sons have also served in dangerous places.
I can assure you they are nothing at all like Numbers.
I recall the Arizona shooter was pretty much known as a crazy, the school shooter seems to have been pegged as an odd bob, can anyone recall the cinema shooter?
Nobody is talking about outlawing guns. Just a basic reform like keeping assault weapons off gun supermarket stores would seem a commonsense and reasonable move. But in America they take the notion of an armed citizen militia at the ready seriously and any self respecting militia needs automatic weapons don’t you know.
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics. Is this supposed to convince us it’s OK to live in a society like the US where you know most people around you carry guns and are prepared to shoot first and ask questions later…
This is low-grade trolling and childish at that. No one on this site is proposing or defending unfettered gun ownership. And, no, the US for the most part doesn’t involve a society where most people around you are carrying guns, and nor are they prepared to shoot and ask questions later.
School shooters seem to be young, male, white, middleclass socially isolated or angry, on some sort of drugs, but how can you pick which one will tip over the edge.
School shooters seem to be young, male, white, middleclass socially isolated or angry, on some sort of drugs, but how can you pick which one will tip over the edge.
If we want to prevent such things from happening again we’d be safer identifying socially awkward loners and locking them all up than outlawing guns.
I agree.
I see mother owned the guns and didn’t properly secure them from the nutcase son – therein lies the most cogent cause of the deaths. They could charge her for “irresponsibility” but she was shot dead too.
The whole thing feeds the “I don’t like guns so no-one else is allowed to own them” lobby who will trot out whatever doctored stats suit them and then declare “Shut up – just shut up!!!” to the opposition argument.
Tim Blair’s second last link (denoted “Here are two”) details four successful interventions by armed strangers in similar shootings which were NOT reported accurately by the mass media.
The enraged commenters here who just do not like guns, armed with misinformation, forget to ask the fundamental question about their primary source “Why would the mass media be any less dishonest in reporting on gun control mattters than on any other issue?”
1. Human beings turning to reason over the other means of making decisions e.g. using statistics rather than emotions or religion or luck
A society run solely on the basis of statistics would be a very efficient, smoothly running … dystopia.
Data and information does not necessarily equate with wisdom or those inexpressible things known only in the heart – the wellspring of all creativity and love.
Service is very spotty, get the ‘I am broken’ message about half the time.
CL:
No society should ever allow only the police to own and carry firearms.
Absolutely. One reason the British police originally carried only whistles and a truncheon was to attract the attention of the armed law-abiding citizenry, who would then rush to assist the Policeman. The British police did not need guns back then, because the responsible citzenry was armed.
Now the British Polcie do armed patrols in some numbers in parts of the west end, and are routinely outgunned by the immigrant gangs!
A society run solely on the basis of statistics would be a very efficient, smoothly running … dystopia.
Data and information does not necessarily equate with wisdom or those inexpressible things known only in the heart – the wellspring of all creativity and love.
Viva, a country run using your improved approach would be a living hell. Laws don’t make society. We put objective law in place so we have enforceable rules to live by and individual rights are protected from the mob. Then we build our culture and our wellbeing in civil society to build things like “the wellspring of all creativity and love”. People like yourself want the former to deliver the latter, and it can’t do it.
The type of weapon developed for military use in which cartridges allow for fast repeat fire and rapid reloading. The terminology is in common use. Another term is automatic or semi-automatic weapons. It is a purely descriptive term.
School shooters seem to be young, male, white, middleclass socially isolated or angry, on some sort of drugs, but how can you pick which one will tip over the edge.
In this case, there were red flags everywhere, Candy:
A troubled soul, as well as possible health problems, loomed behind that quiet facade. Ryan Lanza told police his brother had a history of mental issues, CBS reported.
Former neighbour Ryan Kraft told The Washington Post that the Lanza brothers were upset by their parents’ breakup and that Adam had obvious problems.
“He would have tantrums,” Kraft told the Post. “They were much more than the average kid (would have).”
Alex Israel, a former classmate, told CNN that Lanza was “fidgety” and “a little uneasy if you were to look at him.
“Socially (he was) not as ready to go out there and make friends,” she said. “He preferred just to stay by himself.”
A relative told ABC News that Adam was “obviously not well.”
Cruelly, it seems that his murderous plan was enabled inadvertently by his own mother Nancy.
The powerful Sig Sauer and Glock handguns he used – types commonly issued to law enforcement officers – as well as a military-grade rifle, were registered to her.
There has been no explanation yet as to why a suburban mum in a genteel neighbourhood would have wanted such lethal arms.
Laws are not just based on objective facts – they reflect society’s values. If, for example, euthanasia becomes legal, I think you will find that would have a sizeable impact on society one way or another.
Data and information does not necessarily equate with wisdom or those inexpressible things known only in the heart – the wellspring of all creativity and love.
spoken like someone who prefers “feelings” to facts, especially when the facts do not support your worldview.
It seems the murderer took a turn for the worse following his parents divorce. The mother appears to have been “a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement” which explains the arsenal available at the home. Decent account here.
spoken like someone who prefers “feelings” to facts, especially when the facts do not support your worldview.
Constantly citing statistics can sometimes be equated with not seeing the wood for the trees. But I promise to consult more statistics if you undertake to consult your feelings sometimes – without thinking you are losing your grip lol.
Of course everybody ripped off everybody else during the creative explosion of 1960-80.
That’s not correct at all. Zep were notorious thieves. Other white blues wannabes credited the songwriters.
To suggest that a bunch of exceptionally talented musicians at the top of their game are ‘the worst’ is just ridiculous.
No, actually, in an era when people like Magic Sam, Otis Rush, Albert King, Freddie King, Buddy Guy, Junior Watson, Michael Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Albert Collins, Hollywood Fats, Jimmie Lee Vaughan and many others of clearly superior ability in the blues genre were still working, it is possible to make an objective assessment that Zep, as a blues band, were execrable.
As a turgid, Tolkien influenced, blues rock band, they might win a competition, however.
Abu, they weren’t just a blues band though. In fact, I would say they weren’t even mostly a blues band. Their first album is and it’s actually my least favourite. There was a real diversity in the material they played and whilst Plant’s lyrics weren’t the greatest, I feel the whole package was fantastic.
About young people learning to use the road on a motorcycle before using a car.
To me it make sense to learn without distractions. In a car you have lots, everything from phones and friends to air cons and song selections on sound system.
On a bike your total focus is on the road and the other wankers on it.
Road conditions ( eg; a wet road after a dry spell) taken more seriously on a bike.
Some of the ridiculously high BAC readings reported lately by P platers in cars is frightening, on a bike you’d rarely get the stand up and reach the end of the driveway.
Almost zero colateral fatalities, eg pedestrians, passengers…..
And other road road users may accually LOOK for motorcycles on the road, there’d be thousands of them.
They would almost certainly know a few of them, or in time, have been one of them.
No new road rules need be made, the police just enforce the ones we already have.
Abu, like it or not, people vote with their coin.
Sales is the only non-lefty way to rank them.
( feel free to throw elvis, M&M, pink or that lady from India with mega local sales in my face, I care not )
certainly not “a couple of years”, nice sleight of hand there.
My original comment –
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years.
I was issued with an SLR on callup in January 1969. I was discharged in January 1971, after handing my SLR prior to RTA. That adds up to about 2 years. Where’s the “sleight of hand?”.
Most handguns, and nearly all ammo for them, are used on ranges.
They weren’t designed and built as target weapons. They are intended to kill. The police are issued with them to protect themselves from armed criminals by shooting these same armed criminals dead. Target pistols are a completely different concept.
False as stated.
A brief examination of US media will show many people saving their lives from violent armed home invasions
You’re referring to the hoary collection of fictitious anecdotes repeated ad nauseum by the gun lobby. They are not backed up by forensic statistics.
False as stated.
Compeltely (sic) speculative. Also not in accordance with reality. Military and police are poorly trained on handguns. The pistol license holders I know spend at least one day a month at the range and routinely use 100 rounds in a session. The police………………. 4 rifles and normally use 300 .22 rounds, 50 .22 magnum and 100 .303 rounds. That’s a normal month.
Translation – I have a lot of yippee shoots, so I’m special and I know everything. Reminds me of a few gun wankers I’ve met. The amount of ammunition expended grows with the telling. Fishermen do the same.
I work with law enforcement daily, and they are poorly trained and poor markemen (sic), with cheap firearms.
I hope your “work” doesn’t include anything requiring accuracy.
innumerable US media reports
Innumerable US media reports simply don’t cut it. Most are apocryphal. You need to provide valid statistical data.
Youa re (sic) comparing Australia to the US in a meaningless way again.
Comparisons are not “meaningless”. One interesting comparison is the rate of gun fatalities in each country. In the USA it’s 9 per 100000. In Australia it’s 1.05 per 100000. I can see why you don’t like comparisons.
Another logical fallacy (sic). Repeating your unsubstantiated opinions does not a fact make.
You need to take your own advice. None of your assertions are substantiated.
As someone trained on 7.62mm L1A1, 5.56mm F88, 9mm F1, 9mm Browning, Minimi, .50 MG, 40mm bofors, 4.5″ and 5″, plus full demolitions quals, I can only regard your words here as laughably hysterical. Oh, I’ve been an instructor and RSO as well.
Translation – If I throw around a few wankerisms, it might compensate for my lack of common sense and reasoning ability.
I trained on the SLR, the M60, the M16, the Browning and the M72. I carried all of these (except the Browning) at one time or another on active service. That proves nothing one way or another.
If you were such a patronising moron, no wonder you were regarded as an idiot (that’s from a few of your init mates BTW).
I’m not sure what an “init mate” is, but then much of what you’ve posted is equally obscure. Besides, my mates avoid gun wankers.
I was issued with an SLR on callup in January 1969. I was discharged in January 1971, after handing my SLR prior to RTA. That adds up to about 2 years. Where’s the “sleight of hand?”.
If it was 2, why didn’t you say so? Why dissemble?
Why do you use a Gravetar symbol that represents the rebellion of independent capitalist miners against government taxation and oppression? Do you support lower taxes? Do you support government leaving small businessmen alone? Miners who, incidentally, were heavily armed, as was the fashion of the time.
Currently, the United States has 14.5 times Australia’s population, 102 times its total firearm deaths [2,6], and 173 times its number of firearm homicides [2,7]. Relating different periods of firearm deaths in the USA with the implication that Australia should emulate US gun policy is like arguing that Baghdad is safer than Bogota.
Something’s really working well for the septics. Must be the NRA.
Currently, the United States has 14.5 times Australia’s population, 102 times its total firearm deaths [2,6], and 173 times its number of firearm homicides [2,7]. Relating different periods of firearm deaths in the USA with the implication that Australia should emulate US gun policy is like arguing that Baghdad is safer than Bogota.
Something’s really working well for the septics. Must be the NRA.
would you like to give a racial breakdown of those numbers, Numbers? Might shed a bit more light on the problem.
If it was 2, why didn’t you say so? Why dissemble?
I can imagine I could start a great argument as I did last time questioning what was “a few”. But in this case it seems pretty simple. A couple is two. How is that dissembling?
@Steve C
I’ve noticed something interesting about this site.
If you post something as a statement that offends the orthodoxy, it is labelled, packaged and distorted. Bolt does much the same thing, but is much more skilled. Analysis and logic are avoided like the plague. They’re considered dangerous…..
can imagine I could start a great argument as I did last time questioning what was “a few”. But in this case it seems pretty simple. A couple is two. How is that dissembling?
A couple is two, is true, (such as a male-female pair) but a couple of some thing, in idiomatic use, is more than two.
I’ve noticed something interesting about this site.
If you post something as a statement that offends the orthodoxy, it is labelled, packaged and distorted. Bolt does much the same thing, but is much more skilled. Analysis and logic are avoided like the plague. They’re considered dangerous…..
and the main user of these tactics is numbers, who has yet to give me a racial breakdown on the number of murders in the USA, after breathlessly informing me how many time more it is than here in Oz.
SteveC, please tell me why numbers did not cite “two” instead used “couple”, despite it requiring an additional tree keystrokes? Is it because “two” looks rather undercooked?
Well, stevec, after you went to all that trouble of gathering up my comments I thought it best I paid you a little attention that you were screaming out for.
SteveC, please tell me why numbers did not cite “two” instead used “couple”,
Umm, because a couple means two. Except at the Cat, where readers manage to read anything they like in to a comment. It’s called projection. I guess he said a couple because he meant two. Whereas you, as a typical Catallaxian, decided to read something else into it.
The Cat sure looks like the twilight zone at times. I recall my assertion many many months ago that ‘a few’ could mean as few as two, resulted in a discussion that went for days and in fact resulted in a temporary ban for me for thread derailing!
@SteveC
You don’t understand. “Couple” was obviously a very cleverly crafted construction, designed to add some ineffible impact to the statement.
You’re obviously not wearing your tinfoil hat…
I actually reject Number’s premise, which is that men are insensate beasts, liable to murder once given access to a ‘killing machine’.
His use of that emotive term also betrays a fabulist ‘magical outcomes’ view, clearly stated in this remarkably stupid comment:
They [pistols] weren’t designed and built as target weapons. They are intended to kill. The police are issued with them to protect themselves from armed criminals by shooting these same armed criminals dead. Target pistols are a completely different concept.
What’s so truly infantile about this statement is the repeatedly expressed view that the tool is responsible for the action. Can handguns kill? of course. So can a screwdriver. Who is responsible if either is misused to murder? Well, the law and common sense says that the murderer is. Numbers has repeatedly shown that he does not believe this at all – the gun is responsible in his ‘magical thinking’ view.
Statistics – see here, where I get my data relating to the US from. One interesting thing is the decline in murders in all teh firearms categories at a time when gun ownership has expanded dramatically in that country. (Crime in the USA 2010 Expanded table 8)
If I throw around a few wankerisms… yippee shoots…
You have 2 years of military experience over a generation ago. I have well over 30, ongoing. That you use such terms indicates that you normally use your small amount of service long, long ago as a tool to claim authority and obtain cachet in your leftist circles.
It cuts no ice here, and certainly none with me. You are, after all, a short-service amateur.
“If you were such a patronising moron, no wonder you were regarded as an idiot (that’s from a few of your unit-mates BTW).”
FTFY (are you really so dull as not to be able to glance and a QWERTY keyboard and work that out?)
it would be interesting to see you at Belmont range, your reactions to how crowded it is these days, and to how many young people and children are taking up the sport would be fascinating.
But I think the loud bangs would frighten you too much.
Will: See here for a race-based breakdown of US crime. Essentially, the welfare-ruined black community in that country is responsible for vastly disproportionate amount of the crime, and especially the serious crime.
Blacks are only 13.1% of the US population (see here) but are responsible for 48.7% of the murders, 31.8% of the rapes, and 55% of the robberies.
Mother Jones has some excellent and calmly argued articles on mass shootings in America.
This one, for example, shows the increasing rate of fatalities and injuries from then since 1982.
I mentioned the most important fact yesterday – it has been ignored by the “just shut up” crowd, who have run into their coward’s castle of “how dare you seek to disarm the law abiding citizen” and “but cars kill more people – why not ban cars?”:
Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally.
Surveys indicate that, as appears in this most recent incident, gun ownership is actually not spreading across households but intensifying in those that really love their guns.
Pathetic Australians like IT think this funny and/or justified: that the nutty Right’s reaction to both elections of Obama has been to buy more guns.
If I were American this is what I would be saying:
“Yes, I want tighter gun control. I don’t live in a dangerous neighbourhood and I know to avoid them, where (I agree) black on black killings are a serious issue. But I know where one of the biggest random dangers to me and my family comes from – you, the Right wing gun loving nutter – it’s your guns I’m worried about, and I want less of them out there. And don’t give me the bullshit that it would better if every teacher were armed, or every person attending a cinema. Normal people don’t want to live in a society bristling with guns outside of wartime.
You’re living in a fantasy world, and it is you who are the dangerous and incredibly immature ones. The Right never used to be crazy like this. Grow up.”
Now that numbers has been filleted into as many little pieces as his ID. he can just crawl away and stop being a museum display of aged cantankerous delusion.
He could have quit while he was just a casual drive-by troll, but had to go on and become a casebook study all on his own.
liable to murder once given access to a ‘killing machine’.
A firearm is a tool of metal composites (and sometimes) wood.
By itself it is harmless.
When used as intended (and don’t tell me firearms aren’t designed to kill and maim) it is far from harmless. Given that unless you intend to cull large chunks of the human race (those considered, for reasons – like race advanced here – as unsuitable) you have to manage the combination of firearms and people. When that fails, the results are catastrophic.
If all other factors remain immutable, reducing the number of freely available firearms would reduce the number of fatalities involving them. The clearest correlation in the statistics is the relationship between the number of freely available firearms and the rate of homicides and suicides.
As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, you could reduce the road toll to zero by eliminating the ownership of motor vehicles.
The social and economic impact of this would be unacceptable.
The social and economic impact of limiting access to firearms would not be unacceptable expect to those who have an agenda. These agendae vary. In the case of those making a living out of manufacturing and selling firearms, the agenda is plain.
There exists in the USA (and to a lesser extent here) a culture that conflates gun ownership with a narrative embedded in freedom, independence, and macho posturing. It is anachronistic in a community that is no longer a frontier society.
It is largely gratuitous and unnecessary. It would not be missed.
These are the only aspects of the issue that are of relevance.
The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the
results of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first
International Crime Survey.31 Substantial correlations were found between gun
ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread
gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events
committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other
potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more
guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.
Will: See here for a race-based breakdown of US crime. Essentially, the welfare-ruined black community in that country is responsible for vastly disproportionate amount of the crime, and especially the serious crime.
Blacks are only 13.1% of the US population (see here) but are responsible for 48.7% of the murders, 31.8% of the rapes, and 55% of the robberies.
So much for Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ claptrap.
Thanks MK50.
The data shows that, if you remove the african-american crime stats, the homicide rate is indistinguishable from most western countries, despite the right to bear arms.
The Right never used to be crazy like this. Grow up
You’re not discussing this with “the Right”, Steve.
These are crazies from central casting. If they were any further Right, they’d be coming out the other side….
A society which bans guns and where only some, such as criminals have access to firearms, is a very dangerous place to be.
Total fiction.
Compare the statistics for firearm suicides and homicides for the USA (by your definition an armed society) and Australia (by your definition a country where only some, such as criminals, have access to firearms).
Jump – you may have some good points about defensive driving, but:
“Almost zero colateral fatalities, eg pedestrians, passengers…..”
There have been car drivers killed by side impact from a bike running a red. I knew someone who went that way. I’d get a bike again myself but for the feeling of vulnerability and consideration for the wife’s feelings.
Total fiction.
Compare the statistics for firearm suicides and homicides for the USA (by your definition an armed society) and Australia (by your definition a country where only some, such as criminals, have access to firearms).
Numbers, you really haven’t been paying attention.
I will ask again, what is the racial breakdown of the USA stats?
(Hint for slow learners, go back through the thread to Mk50′s post on this)
FFS, is the staggeringly stupid, syphilitic, morbidly obese commie coward, AKA the spudpeeler, still turning up here to be thrashed into ever smaller gibbets?
How the fuck does it get through a day without causing itself fatal harm, the lobotomised ol’ fairy?
The simple fact is that we have a culture that glorifies mass murder and serial killing.
What you glorify, you get.
There’s really nothing more to it than that, and the endless “wondering” and bewildered analysis of this kind of event is irritating.
Anyone who has sat through an entire episode of Criminal Minds, Dexter, or The Sopranos has engaged with this aspect of culture; anyone who’s watched a documentary on Manson or Bundy or whoever is equally immersed. The fact that we all know these arseholes names (including their middle name if they have a middle name) tell you everything you need to know.
As entry level motorists are high school students, the congestion levels around schools would reduce a lot too.
Riding a motorbike has made me a better driver, I think that’s true for all motorcyclists.
I will ask again, what is the racial breakdown of the USA stats?
ffs don’t talk about the US and race unless you know what the fuck you’re talking about. Stats out of context are no use at all. That’s basically kids playing with matches.
ffs don’t talk about the US and race unless you know what the fuck you’re talking about. Stats out of context are no use at all. That’s basically kids playing with matches.
Compare the statistics for firearm suicides and homicides for the USA (by your definition an armed society) and Australia (by your definition a country where only some, such as criminals, have access to firearms).
Gun suicides merely substitute for other methods of suicide.
You are referring to data, not statistics.
If you look at the longitudinal AIC data, there is no correlation between gun laws being liberal and the murder rate. At some times high gun ownership may have discouraged other violent crimes.
The most important factor is better policing methods and higher average sentencing rates since the 1970s.
It sounds like chumming the water to bait up a lefty, but the best time in Australia for a civil society with a low violent crime rate, and gun crime, was in the 1950s, when guns were widespread.
I actually dont think you should disarm the general population at all. Its a recipe for repression by governments who think they can control the majority of people rather than act in the best inbterests of the majority of people (but like what they have now in the US and in silly parrot Oz).
Who knows, governments are getting so “sold out” to filthy bribing interest groups every day. Open your eyes and really look at them with their trips, sweeteners, post politics jobs, perks for life etc.
We may one day, need to shoot our way out of the mess, frankly.
A population without guns, and a government with guns, is asking for nothing but trouble and repression. Never thought Id ever hear myself say this (I am no warmonger) but these days I dont trust, or trust less and less, any government.
Pathetic Australians like IT think this funny and/or justified: that the nutty Right’s reaction to both elections of Obama has been to buy more guns.
Yes, I think it hilarious that a decade lomg gun buying splurge gas seen the homicide rate plummet to th what it was in 1960 and crime rates across the US drop like a stone.
Many more cultural factors for the crime rate dropping are probably at play, but according to you the increasing number of guns should have resulted in more homicides.
So in short: Record numbers of guns are being bought and an unprecedented drop in the homocide rate is occurring at the same time.
p.s Steve, I am glad you are ant-guns, as someone who is as prone to emotional meltdowns as you are probably shouldn’t be near them.
And what i say aint got nothing to do with any lefty righty war which some in here like Dot think is still going on. Its more a war against corruption of government and the people who are governed but dumby Dot still thinks its all a left right war.
While you are sidetracked Dot (and people like you – fighting wars that dont exist)
you are hopeless at correcting anything.
I will stay tuned for the “fuck off Alice” and reference to my apparently “fake career”.
Disarming law abiding citizens only invites more shootings.
That’s not the experience ub Australia. That said, the “Bowling for Columbine” doco compared USA and Canada which have similar gun ownership rates, and vastly different gun death rates. The problem appears more cultural than simply numerical analysis of gun possession.
I seriously regret giving my husbands gun to the police in an amnesty hand in ten or more years ago.
I didnt want it in the cupboard when I had a six year old to raise and hubby was being stubborn about it.
I’d rather be able to identify a potential psychopath than be a victim of one.
That’s great, but that’s not the reason people engage with this stuff. The people consuming stuff about serial killers the most are psychopaths, who make up 1 percent of the population. They love that shit.
Dogshit and his best friend, Dogshit’s Best Friend, are both here creeping out the women as usual and admiring each other’s gabardine raincoats. The left’s sexual perverts continue to carry the banner for the perverts’ government as its chief trolls. They make a fine double act with the communist left’s most deranged fruitcake, who’s infuriated by the unwillingness of the mainstream to use the same extremist language and definitions as the left’s fruitcake government, which is attempting to permanently change Australia into the world’s first Marxist democracy since Allende’s Chile. The old commo troll reminds the middle class what a disaster this ultra-left regime has been, bringing the mentally deranged out of the shadows, and why they will never make the same mistake again.
You see hubby was pretty handy with a baseball bat when he was young and used to spring into action if he heard a strange sound in the night and reach for his baseball bat behind the bed. It was very comforting.
But now he sleeps through any noise in the night and I am not so sure he could swing the bat as well as he once could if ever there was any trouble.
So I would like our gun back just in case so I can protect myself if he sleeps through anything like a home invasion etc
The clearest correlation in the statistics is the relationship between the number of freely available firearms and the rate of homicides and suicides.
Statistics, as has been pointed out before this, are not a failsafe measure but since the Numerical Numpty persistently raises them in this context without evidence perhaps he can explain how the following fits with his clear correlation:
Total all civilian firearms:
US = 270,000,000
Switzerland = 2,800,000
Honduras = 500,000
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population:
US = 2.97
Switzerland = 0.77
Honduras = 68.43
Not that I necessarily trust the Guardian but the data source seems reliable even though it is missing many of the more interesting Middle Eastern countries such as Yemen which sits between the US and Switzerland for the largest armed population.
This concerns something called solar climate variability, which is an observation from many different paleoclimatic reconstructions that there seem to be variations in the sun that cause variations in the climate by about the same amount that we’re experiencing at the moment. Those observations are too many to dismiss and to explain away as mere coincidence. There’s something going on that we don’t understand. So, at the moment there’s a question mark — do we understand the natural causes of climate change? And the answer is, we understand a little about it, but in total we understand very, very little about it. Until we really understand the natural causes of climate change, we’ll always have a huge question mark as to what our understanding is of current climate change.
perhaps he can explain how the following fits with his clear correlation:
With pleasure.
Using the study you cited in the guardian, compare the USA with Australia – Homicide by firearm – rate per 100000 – USA – 2.97. Australia – .14. In other words, the rate of homicides in the USA per 100000 people is 21 times the rate in Australia. Average firearm ownership in the USA per 100 people is 88.8. In Australia, it’s 15. Ownership rate in the USA is 6 times that in Australia. The relationship is not linear, but it’s strong and statistically significant.
The study cited in the Guardian does not include suicides, wheras the study I cited does. Both were undertaken by UNDOC.
The inclusion of countries like Honduras is not terribly relevant. You need to compare like with like. Whichever way you cut it, the strongest correlation (considering the literally hundreds of factors that could be considered) exists between proliferation and deaths. As I said above, the challenge is to reduce the prevalence.
How the legislators in the USA can be content with a homicide rate 21 times that of a comparative western society is beyond me.
I seriously regret giving my husbands gun to the police in an amnesty hand in ten or more years ago.
I didnt want it in the cupboard when I had a six year old to raise and hubby was being stubborn about it.
Now I want that gun back.
That’s why no one listens to you now Alice, You are always wrong.
Many years ago I commanded B Company 5/7. I know Shane Gabriel who re raised the Pigs.
Anyway I think you are wrong on just about everything.
By the way the US Supreme Court, in dismissing the Chicago or Washington DC guns ban, noted that the worst gun crime rates occur in the locations with the strongest gun control laws.
I know where one of the biggest random dangers to me and my family comes from – you, the Right wing gun loving nutter – it’s your guns I’m worried about, and I want less of them out there.
An innocent person is far more likely to be shot by a police officer than by a licensed CCW holder with a legal weapon. CCW holders with legal weapons are some of the safest people to be around, actually. Unless you’re a criminal (cf your fantasies about helpless housewives getting raped by tradesmen).
And Patio Boy bleats:
“How the legislators in the USA can be content with a homicide rate 21 times that of a comparative western society is beyond me.”
but then
“You need to compare like with like.”
Good-oh. Most shootings in the US though are young urban male blacks & hispanics illegally shooting other young male blacks & hispanics with illegal guns. Take them out of the mix and the gun homicide rate in the US is about the same as Canada’s.
The inclusion of countries like Honduras is not terribly relevant. You need to compare like with like. Whichever way you cut it, the strongest correlation (considering the literally hundreds of factors that could be considered) exists between proliferation and deaths. As I said above, the challenge is to reduce the prevalence.
You’re so full of crap numbers.
Including places like Detroit skews the numbers. Over half of US gun deaths are suicides. (Removing guns merely changes the method of suicide).
Whichever way you cut it, the strongest correlation (considering the literally hundreds of factors that could be considered) exists between proliferation and deaths. As I said above, the challenge is to reduce the prevalence.
There exists in the USA (and to a lesser extent here) a culture that conflates gun ownership with a narrative embedded in freedom, independence, and macho posturing. It is anachronistic in a community that is no longer a frontier society.
It is largely gratuitous and unnecessary. It would not be missed.
What an ill-educated leftard you are!
As simplified as it is possible to be so there is a 0.05% chance of the poor dull, stupid, uneducated Numbers-bogan comprehending some small part of it:
1. The founders of the US Republic were classically educated and had very carefully studied the reasons the Roman Rebpublic died.
2. They realised that the primary reason was the ability of a tyrant to take over and impose ‘big government’ which removed the freedoms of the Roman citizen, transformed him from a yeaman farmer into a welfare mendicant and caused government to absorb so much revenue that the state collapsed.
3. They applied all this to their own situation as a part of the First British Empire.
4. They came to understand that the right to revolution has to be guaranteed. Therefore, the US Constitution is meant to guarantee that armed revolution against the US government by US citizens is not only legal but required should it become a tyranny.
5. To this end, a Federal regulation was passed making all males a member of the Federal Militia at majority (21 years of age).
6. This Federal Militia is the ‘duly constituted militia’.
7. it was then put into their constitution that it was illegal to in any way infringe the right of American citizens to own and bear infantry weapons.
8. The intent is very clear, all men are part of the duly constituted Federal Militia and all are supposed not only to possess infantry weapons but to use them against the government in legally mandated revolt should it become a tyranny.
So, you utter cretin, Numbers, you think this is ‘gratuitious’ and ‘would not be missed’. It is at the very core of what an American is. This is how they and their country are built and defined.
Hmm. Who to believe: those towering giants John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington… or Numbers, the short-service amateur leftard loser of Toowoomba?
Anyway, regardless of the emotionalism and knee-jerk “BAN THEM! BAN THEM! BAN THEM!” responses of so many totalitarian-minded Leftists, America is never going to trash her Constitution to suit you.
No, Rabz, dave can account for himself here. thanks anyway.
Sure.
You have no problem with the so-called “rules for trolls” (which encourate viciousness and dishonesty against anyone you suspect of trollery), had no problem with steve being referred to ‘shitfer,’ ‘dogshit’ etc,…. and stood by idly saying nothing when I repeatedly called for more civility.
But then complained because Steve said mean things to you.
“The greatest factor in homicide is unemployment.”
and what are we doing about that? Fuck all – while we all have to listen to the BS that Glen Stevens pumps out from the RBA about “watching out for inflation” BS BS and more BS.
and what are we doing about that? Fuck all – while we all have to listen to the BS that Glen Stevens pumps out from the RBA about “watching out for inflation” BS BS and more BS.
Inflation destroys employment, Alice.
Refer to Okun’s Law. You are creating price shocks for new technologies.
Where has a vertical long term Philips curve ever been upheld?
The US has been trying to create inflation to little avail.
We could get lower unemployment by cutting taxes, egregious Government waste, balancing the budget and abolishing most occupational licensing.
Also remember what John Black said: “Work Choices is gone and now unemployment is structurally higher by 1%”
To whom did I complain and when about SFB saying “mean things” to me?
Are you saying otherwise? I don’t have links, but I recall reading several complaints by you about Steve, and his temporary banning was by all accounts due to his treatment of you and Lizzie, although the offending comments themselves will remain forever shrouded in mystery (probably because they weren’t actually that bad).
Seriously. If this is a concern, look at your state’s regulations.
Please note that ‘self defence’ is not a reason to own a gun: it’s a sport with a large range of reasons to join.
Go and see your local SSAA club, talk it over with the senior Range Safety Officer, get them to show you around.
Then make your decision. It’s a lot of fun, some of the disciplines are very challenging, and it’s not terribly expensive.
Me, I am a conservation hunter. I do my best, with my own money, to keep feral vermin down in order to limit the damage they do to native species and habitat (cats, pigs, foxes, wild dogs, goats, deer in that order). I have been a conservationist my entire adult life (and never, ever a greenie, who are worthless poseurs who never outlay their own money and sweat). I am a bit past heavy landcare work now although I still visit areas my group cleared of noxious weed infestations decades ago.
If you have children, you will find excellent training programs for them, as well as their own competitions at state, national and international level. It is very social. Shooting is an excellent family sport.
“We could get lower unemployment by cutting taxes, egregious Government waste, balancing the budget and abolishing most occupational licensing.”
You fucking idiot.
We have been doing that (idiot experiment) for thirty years and its created the mess we atre in.
Like we need fuckwits to keep going wit da bad medecine.
but I recall reading several complaints by you about Steve, and his temporary banning was by all accounts due to his treatment of you and Lizzie,
I give SFB back as good as I get. Part of that is to highlight his hypocrisy when he calls the males on this site misogynists in one breath and then does exactly that which he accuses others to me and other female commenters. I remind him him of his wish to slap me in the face whenever he gets on his “misogynistic” soap box. That it not a complaint for the way he speaks to me. It is showing up his hypocritical ways.
As for his banning, I had absolutley nothing to do with that – and you can ask Sinclair directly. I know I have been blamed for that incident however you -and others- are wrong on that score. I did, however, register my disagreement with Sinclair once I found out why SFB had been banned and told Sinclair that I thought it was unfair. Again, feel free to check with Sinclair.
I have on occassion asked for civility here, however that has been to do with the name-calling directed at monty.
People like you, Dave, who jump to conclusions, often fall flat on their face.
I wouldnt have minded learning to shoot mysaelf (seriously).
I would like to be able to aim for a leg and not actually hit a heart etc. It would be a very useful skill in this day and age. Ive just about had enough of governments. If I was being robbed in my house I know damn well the police may not even get here in half an hour plus etc I could be dead by then.
My kid has grown up but maybe its something he could do. His father could shoot well (they teach them well in the country).
I have no moral objection to guns (and increasingly think we should be permitted to carry arms as well like the US citizens).
“We could get lower unemployment by cutting taxes, egregious Government waste, balancing the budget and abolishing most occupational licensing.”
You fucking idiot.
We have been doing that (idiot experiment) for thirty years and its created the mess we atre in.
Like we need fuckwits to keep going wit da bad medecine.
So you’re saying;
1. Increasing taxes
2. Increasing Government debt
3. Increasing Government waste
4. Increasing occupational licensing
…would lower the unemployment rate?
Alice. You’re gonna have to explain the finer points of how your plan works.
So..on top of this, and the Fair Work Act, why do Gillard and Swan preside over higher unemployment rates and lower participation rates that Costello and Howard?
Howard and Costello saw unemployment go under 4% as the participation rate grew, along with real wages.
Hey,ease up
Oh, just in case anyone wants to ask ” How was golf today Jump?”
I would say ” Shit hot actually,..well…,14 from 18 hole anyway, thank for asking )
Why is that Alice? were you afraid your husband was going to use it on you or your six year old? Or were you afraid that the six year old would have shot himself accidently?
If it was the later surely your hubby would have had the sense to store it properly and secure the bolt and ammo seperately?
Guns and kids can mix given the right instruction and parental guidance.
Yes, you were another one that blamed me a week or so ago and I recall telling you at the time that I did not complain to Sinclair nor did I ask him to ban SFB. But obviously it fell on deaf ears then.
“4. They came to understand that the right to revolution has to be guaranteed. Therefore, the US Constitution is meant to guarantee that armed revolution against the US government by US citizens is not only legal but required should it become a tyranny.
5. To this end, a Federal regulation was passed making all males a member of the Federal Militia at majority (21 years of age).
6. This Federal Militia is the ‘duly constituted militia’.
7. it was then put into their constitution that it was illegal to in any way infringe the right of American citizens to own and bear infantry weapons.”
This is all well and good, but the fact is that no militia, however well-regulated, has a hope in hell of overturning a modern tyrannical US government.
For that matter, I’d be surprised if the suppression of any group that rose up in rebellion would stretch the resources of just the local law enforcement.
But you have never been a mother have you? So what would you know? Kids and guns dont mix.
No Alice I have never been a mother but I have had a mother who was very wise and allowed my father to teach me firearm safety from an early age. I joined cadets in high school and then went onto do military service. Now I am a father I am instilling into my children the same practical instruction that has held me in good stead all these years.
I would say I know a lot more than you and your moronic husband who in your opinion was such a threat to your son’s safety that you had to surrender his firearm for him.
Why do you think only mothers care about children’s safety? Misandry alert!
all men are part of the duly constituted Federal Militia and all are supposed not only to possess infantry weapons but to use them against the government in legally mandated revolt should it become a tyranny
Beautifully explained, Mark. Only when the left stops squealing and demanding disarmament, accepts the philosophical wisdom of the Constitution and agrees to work within it does workable gun control become available. But that would require adult negotiation, which I can’t see happening.
And that, to me, is the end of it. Good on you Gab, you are a star, and I think you always give fair riposte.
Stevie is a sad case who gets over-snipey at times.
I think he is lonely. He must be to write up his blog all the time, when no-one is interested in his ruminations on various things. There’s a ‘boring’ priest in Father Ted who is the epitome of someone who can’t shut up and thinks he is interesting. Salutory for Stevie. Now this gives Stevie his chance to have a go at me. Atta boy!!
But Da Hairy Ape has just cooked his special steak and I am on notice. And how.
I visited Stevie in his lonely little blog when he was banned because I felt he might need cheering up and have never asked for his banning. He does make an effort to contribute in a contrary sort of way. I was glad when Sinc changed his mind but sent no emails. Up to Sinc.
It’s not too bad having him around here. We can cope.
I wouldnt have minded learning to shoot mysaelf (seriously).
Don’t do it Alice call Lifeline if you feel that way.
I would like to be able to aim for a leg and not actually hit a heart
If you do overcome your suicidal thoughts Alice you could join a rifle club and they can teach you. In the meantime my advice for you would be to aim for the heart and you will surely shoot low and hit the leg anyway. Not that that is any guarantee to inflict a non life threatening wound. If you hit an artery it’s much the same as a heart only slower and more painful.
dd – you make that sound like a bad thing. We are the dominant species on the planet – the propensity for violence had a large role to play in that. As does our position at the top of the food chain.
Ideally, there would be a set of well-understood rules that dictate what behaviour is acceptable on this blog and what is not, with clearly defined consequences that are not subject to whim or popular outcry.
Instead we have a magical mystery tour of inconsistent and at times contradictory rule by diktat.
This is a choice for the powers that be, but since the choice has apparently been made, can we dispense with the obsolete and frankly misleading rules page?
Not just our culture but many other cultures also.
Quite easy to see that our cutlure does focus on violence. Go to the cinema, play an xbox game, read a novel, watch the news. The majority of people however, do not pick up a gun and go on a killing spree.
No, Candy, they are the objects of supreme affection that must be destroyed by the twisted mind, because they are so valuable to those you want to damage. This is how the frootloop mind works.
dd there is a group who share a novel approach to stamping our violence and war. They are for peace.
There’s no greater antidote for war than love. Feelings of hatred and distrust form the necessary basis of armed confrontation. Replace those negative feelings with love and you’re halfway towards resolution of any conflict.
However, any real love must start from within. You can’t love others without loving yourself first. And, of course, masturbation is the greatest expression of self-love. So it’s natural that we, the citizens of the world, are joining together to masturbate for peace.
I was going to join online but after a rather athletic display of solidarity my RSI flared up again and I couldn’t type.
candy Japan had a spate of blokes going gory in kindergartens and primary schools for a while. I’m not sure what to conclude on that but at least it seems to have stopped now.
dd – you make that sound like a bad thing. We are the dominant species on the planet – the propensity for violence had a large role to play in that. As does our position at the top of the food chain.
I disagree that violence per se is the reason for the success of the human race. plenty of animals are violent. Cats are a great example that are close to home.
But ‘violence’ is too vague and general to be of use to let me be more specific. Our culture glorifies murder.
For example (there are so many), what the hell is the crime series “Underbelly” about, other than an orgy of indulgence in tough guys killing each other.
I heard about a blended family wherein there was an 8 year old and a toddler.
The 8 year old was found to be strangling his toddler sibling.
When asked what he was doing he said he was killing her, but that’s okay, because after he kills her she will be ok.
I’m not saying that this is a normal thought for a child, but that child shouldn’t be playing video games or seeing violent games as he doesn’t know the difference between reality and the games/cartoons.
I’ve never watched Underbelly, dd, but I can fantasize about bearing arms for my country against the unspeakable forces abroad in the world. Unfortunately I’m beyond recruitment age now, but there may be something a partially fit duffer can manage.
In Underbelly the violent people are criminals who get caught and punished in the end.
Yes Sinc but there is something in the fact that old movies always had that ending. Movies from the 70′s onwards tend to barrack for the criminal over law and order. In old movies if a cop was killed the gangster always died, now the death of innocent is just collateral damage if the baddie hero gets to sail off into the sunset with the girl and a bag of money.
Yes, you (jarrah) were another one that blamed me a week or so ago and I recall telling you at the time that I did not complain to Sinclair nor did I ask him to ban …
I’ll take Gab’s word on this over yours every time, you tragic, shrivelled imbecile.
…it is possible to make an objective assessment that Zep, as a blues band, were execrable.
Absolutely. I hate Led Zeppelin.
The Stones borrowed from the bluesmen but – by contrast – always accredited the originals. Indeed, Jagger and Richards helped BB King, Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf and others stay afloat financially; they opened the Stones’ shows, got a slice of the royalties pie and hit the road to play for the new Stones-influenced white blues aficionados.
Plant and Page were plagiarising assholes.
Here’s Brian Jones introducing Howlin’ Wolf for a live TV performance.
According to Tim Flannery feral cats eat 70 million native animals a day.
If his measurement of feral cat populations is anything like his measurement of sea level rise then 70 million should be divided by 10,000.
Jarrah – there are a set of well-understood and well-known rules.
I don’t agree Sinc. It seems fairly obvious that sfb stepped over some line in your mind, which is not part of the documented rules. My theory is that the comment that tipped you over was sfb talking about Gab leaning her gonads against the bar. The banning accurred shortly after that. Gab very quickly said she had not complained. In the end you are seemingly a social conservative. Anything goes on this blog, except being gratuitously offensive to women. Perhaps you should add that to the listed rules.
Human cultures have always been violent, but they have also had to find ways to be co-operative within the group and to enable the reproduction and rearing of children, as well as to protect the group from outside predators and raiders and to sanction wrongdoers within.
Anthropology 101 guys.
Gab, my theory is that he hated the world because he couldn’t fit in (autism spectrum?) and blamed his mother for that, probably hated his ‘normal’ brother too, and thus wanted to show her that he could destroy her world, which was dealing with young children. Interesting though that he killed her before the kids, so she didn’t get to know about this hatred (an afterthought – knock them out before doing self in) and I’m sure there was a level of self-glorification in it, video game fantasies etc.
Who knows what the hell Viking Beserkers in the 9th Century had on their minds when they attacked British villages and killed all occupants.
Plus ca change.
Guns aren’t the problem. Loner and probably over-indulged middle-class kids are the issue and need identifying and assisting earlier.
I read ‘We need to talk about Kevin’ – a chilling read which I took off a new mother friend of mine who had enough problems without this on her mind.
I am not into schizophrenogenic mothers, but the dynamics outlined in this novel are interesting, and go wider than psychology and into contempoary cultural politics.
The Stones borrowed from the bluesmen but – by contrast – always accredited the originals. Indeed, Jagger and Richards helped BB King, Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf and others stay afloat financially; they opened the Stones’ shows, got a slice of the royalties pie and hit the road to play for the new Stones-influenced white blues aficionados.
Plant and Page were plagiarising assholes.
Rock and Roll
Kashmir
Stairway to Heaven
Whole Lotta Love
Black Dog
Dazed and Confused
I started a polite discussion with you and you don’t want a bar of it.
Really. We need to talk about your ideas that more waste, more taxes, more Government debt and more occupational licensing are going to bring unemployment down.
Please explain how this will work, or if anyone actually wants that.
Storyline in the novel is autistic-type kid massacres his family and school ‘friends’, and mother left wondering about her role and that of the father. Nature/nurture stuff.
“Jarrah – there are a set of well-understood and well-known rules. You seem to be the only person who can’t work that out.”
There are? Where might I find them? Because they’re not on the rules page, AFAICT. Those listed seem to be anachronistic. None of them explain any of the bans of recent times, for example.
“Oh, we’re all for rules now. Thanks, Jarrah. What an insight.”
It wasn’t presented as an insight, blogstrop, so I don’t know where the sarcasm is coming from. What I’m complaining about is not the lack of rules, but the proliferation of them! And their seeming arbitrariness and lack of clarity.
Which, I hasten to add for those slow of thought, is the right of Sinclair et al. I’m also happy to participate under whatever regime is set up. I just don’t think it’s too much to ask that the rules are explicit.
I am somewhat encouraged by DD’s comments about violence.
I thought I was the only person who couldn’t quite get a grip on how liberal media critics are nearly always completely unconcerned by the increasing depiction of violence and psychopathology as entertainment over the last 40 years.
Slate, for example, will no doubt continue to run many articles sympathetic to increased gun control, yet it also always runs a weekly “Dexter club” to dissect each current episode. Yes, they will sometimes talk about the clever way that the writers are toying with the audience’s sympathy to the main character, but do they ever care now that it may be affecting some real life nutters out there?
I noted at my blog a couple of months back that there are 5 or 6 cases internationally of murderers who claim to have been inspired by the show. This fact seems little known – and if it concerns the makers of the show, it certainly hasn’t interfered with their making a nice living from it.
This, in my opinion, is something people should be worried about, but as I say, you can’t even get liberals to express concern.
I similarly cannot stand Quentin Tarantino for his violent revenge fantasy shtick and cringe when he is lauded for making it “entertaining”.
That parents let 10 year boys play splatter full computer first person shooter games is equally disturbing.
If the current use of media violence as entertainment had been dumped on the public in one hit in (say) 1967 – when the “ground breaking” Bonnie & Clyde did raise real concern about violence as entertainment porn, there would have been sustained outrage.
Instead, it seems to me that it has been a “frog in a slowly heated pan” effect here – it has happened incrementally and no one gives a damn anymore.
Oh and Lizzie: my blog is like an open diary which other people are free to read, or not. It has for years had the same extremely modest readership, and that has not stopped me running it. The important thing is that I like it – and I do. (Writers are allowed to like their own efforts. It would make no sense if they didn’t. If I was going to be crushed by the lack of wider readership, I would given up about 5 years ago.
Slate, for example, will no doubt continue to run many articles sympathetic to increased gun control, yet it also always runs a weekly “Dexter club” to dissect each current episode.
I am confident this is the only thing I will ever agree with you about, Dogshit: Quentin Tarantino is a psychopath and I would never watch one of his films as a matter of principle. Apart from (and separate from) the fact that Hollywood is a captive of the left, it adores psychopaths like Tarantino, who is the successor to Hollywood’s former psychopath-in-residence Sam Peckinpah – and there will be another one after Tarantino’s death. I understand where Hollywood’s psychopathic culture comes from. I also support the philosophical foundation of the Second Amendment (see upthread).
Actually, I did like your beer bottle pic (a touch of the Andy Warhol about you there). I hope you and your wide readership enjoyed my comment about the past virtues of Cascade Brewery in Tassie until 1995 offering free morning, noon and arvo smoko time beer breaks for employees (all you could drink in ten minutes flat and I was assured there were some fast drinkers on the payroll).
I thought your readers would enjoy this little anecdote about the happy workers of Tassie before the greenery and nannyism took over.
Rather cheering I thought. Wanted to cheer you up. Bottoms up, Stevie.
Now there’s a double entendre for you to puzzle over. Heaven!!
He owns his content, and that is all. He doesn’t own the url, or the blogspot real estate. Google does. TOS, item 7:
7. No Resale of the Service. Unless expressly authorized in writing by Google, you agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, trade, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes (a) any portion of the Service, (b) use of the Service, or (c) access to the Service.
He could try to buy opiniondominion.com, which has been owned by these peeps for almost two years; set up his own server; then port his material over; then sell that.
the reality is that you can sell passwords for nice free hosted domains
The reality is that this almost never happens, because you’d have to be an idiot to try to illegally buy something you can’t actually own and which, if the true owner (Google) finds out, can be wiped out in a nanosecond.
We need to talk about Kevin, by Lionel Shriver, Orange Prize Winner.
I didn’t see the film version.
I saw it, quite good.
I am somewhat encouraged by DD’s comments about violence.
Me too, and you made some good points yourself. I actually like the Dexter series, but not for the violence and gore. What has disturbed me a little recently has been the proliferation of zombie movies and series which are simply over-the-top when it comes to physical violence and have for the most part no other redeeming feature.
A FOURFOLD increase in people-smuggler networks in Sri Lanka is driving the surge of boats that threatens to overwhelm Australia’s border protection regime.
Australian authorities have identified about 12 major people-smugglers operating in Sri Lanka – up from three a year ago.
Demonstrates that sheer volume of comments doesn’t necessarily make for a better blog. I read through all four pages of them – there’s a lot of nonsense repeated over and over and over.
“How would you feel if it had been one of your children that was killed – I think it would be safer living in Afghanistan than the good old US of A.”
“If the killing of 27 innocent people including young children is not enough to sway you from the unfortunate philosophy of ‘the right to bear arms’, then nothing will.”
“All too frequent repeats of these tragedies won’t stop until the Second Amendment is changed”
“Today’s America of unrestricted freedom to bear arms is not ‘working’. Violence, incarceration rates, murder rates ………..unparalleled disaster.”
“They don’t need to change the second amendment – it needs to be removed completely.”
And that’s just from the first page. Except for some sane interjections from our Infidel Tiger and a few others, it’s a total emotion-full fact-free zone over there.
Here’s my contribution, FWIW. I really do urge people to read the two articles I’ve linked there. Nick Gillespie in Reason and Jonah Goldberg in the Atlantic. They bring some facts and some adult reasoning to the table.
I think it would be safer living in Afghanistan than the good old US of A.”
Fuck I get sick of these idiotic folksy “wise” “quips”.
I mean if he really thinks that god help him, he’s a total mental failure. But of course he doesn’t think that at all – he’s just talking utterly incredible shovel loads of made up shit to sound oh-so superior. Which unfortunately is par for the course when Australians talk about America (while bizarrely smugly calling them names like rednecks, uneducated, fat etc – the names the rest of the world calls us).
Well, yes. You can also “sell” the Sydney Harbor Bridge, even though that doesn’t belong to you either.
Seriously, though. You are “selling” something which belongs to Google, in violation of Google’s own TOS. Thus leaving the “buyer” open to all manner of problems. Not least of which would be a demand for more money once the “buyer” really gets settled in there, with the threat of informing on them and having Google shut it down for TOS violations (and confiscate any ill-gotten Google Adsense revenue) if the hapless “buyer” doesn’t hand over more $$$.
I would hope that not too many people would be stupid enough to fall for that.
Let’s face it – you’re just not going to be as bold in going around and using your brute strength to savage women if you have it in the back of your mind that they may well be armed and ready to defend themselves.
sdog, your figures are for sexual assault, one of the trickiest areas of criminality to get reliable figures on. Definitions and rates of reporting depend on all sorts of factors, but one of the things often noted is how rape and sexual assaults are often via someone the victim knows.
I would bet that there are few cases of that kind of rape ever deterred by knowing that the girlfriend has a gun somewhere in the house.
Your figures therefore prove nothing without drilling into the topic in much, much more detail.
Of course, politically, right wing gun defenders are, at the moment, also often likely to be the same people who will run around claiming that increasing CO2 and temperatures does not necessarily imply causation. Yet when it comes to crime stats in the US, any downward trend just has to “logically” be connected to gun sales.
sdog, you’re arguing ridiculously because you’ve got no sensible comeback.
The chances of the most serious, stranger on the street style rape in the US and Australia is quite likely not vastly different and in this country, women have the added security of knowing its very, very unlikely that they or there family are going to be killed or injured by any crime or accident involving a gun.
Your attitude towards women needing to be armed for rape protection is just an example of the paranoid element of gun advocacy in the States.
The figures above showed that 1% of Australian women will be raped as opposed to 0.4% of American women; these show that 91.6 per 100,000 Australian women get raped as opposed to 30.2 per 100,000 American women.
Henry Ergas in The Australian is a must-read column. The bloviating by Labor about “working families” is exposed by the sort of number crunching that the press claque will not do. The damage to businesses, the economy as a whole and to the employment prospects of women in particular (by the regressive IR system) needs to be spelt out, and this article goes some way to doing so.
Great story on the ABC of all places about Gerard Depardieu’s spat with the Socialist Government he probably voted for:
“I am not asking to be approved of, but I could at least be respected,” he said in the letter.
“All of those who have left France have not been insulted as I have been.”
In the letter, Depardieu, who has extensive business interests including wine estates and three Paris restaurants, accused the government of driving France’s most talented figures out of the country with their tax policies.
“I am leaving because you consider that success, creation, talent, anything different, must be punished,” he said.
Depardieu said he had paid 85 per cent tax on his revenues in 2012 and that over 45 years of working and running businesses in France he had paid 145 million euros to state coffers.
“Who are you to judge me, I ask you Mr Ayrault, prime minister of Mr Hollande?”
“Despite my excesses, my appetite and my love of life, I am a free man.”
You are a free man only if you leave socialist, moron driven, France. No doubt Obama wants to institute a similar tax policy that the GOP should give Obama on the sole proviso that all tax loopholes for Hollywood an Silicon Valley are closed.
Canada will do well out of Obama. Australia should benefit too, but the last thing Gillard wants is wealthy, wealth generating, tax exiles landing on our shores.
Nice pose on 22 ways the climate realist movement would look if it was really well funded, PR savvy and well organized.
1. There’d be a slick umbrella site like HuffPo under which all dissident bloggers could shelter, cutting their costs, increasing ad revenue, and simplifying and standardizing the process of surfing the deviationist blogosphere.
2. Failing that, there’d be enough $ for individual sites to ensure that, for instance, Climate Audit would have been able to handle to traffic-surge in the wake of Climategate, instead of being overwhelmed. (How’s that unpreparedness agree with “well organized”?)
3. Commenters would be compensated for accessing paywalled articles. Instead, virtually every thread on WUWT that critiques a warmist paper laments its paywalled status and critiques only what is outside the paywall.
4. There’d be a copy editing & peer review service to vet our side’s books prior to publication, since any flubs will be seized on by warmists to discredit the entire work, as happened to Plimer’s book.
20. There’d be much more stress on arguments that would move the masses and that don’t take a degree to understand. I.e., arguments about the costliness, technical impracticality, and political unenforceability of mitigation strategies, and about the ineffectiveness of massive CO2 emission-reduction in the atmosphere even if all those obstacles were of no account.
If skeptics were truly Machiavellian, or guided by political “pros” behind the scenes, they’d be hitting these popular hot buttons. Those are where the warmists’ case is shakiest — and it’s always a good strategy to focus on the opponents’ weakest points and pound on them endlessly. Instead, these topics make up only 10% or so of the skeptical thrust. Most dissenters devote most of their energy to talking about weather events, dissing believers, and arguing about technical and scientific matters.
21. We’d be pushing geoengineering as the preferred “adaptive” alternative to mitigation. It’s something that the average man can understand as a general concept. E.g., if it rains, open your umbrella. Instead, contrarian bloggers we’d virtually never mention geoengineering except to sneer at it.
22. We’d make a point of proposing reasonable-sounding, politically popular “no regrets” mitigation measures, such as diesel cars (like Europe’s), inducements for homes to convert from oil to gas for heating, incentives for insulation (including large awnings), incentives for battery assisted bicycles (like China’s), increased use of hydro-power, and research into safe, low-waste nuclear power. Any PR “pro” would recommend this strategy of sweet reasonableness.
sdog is shown to be stupid and careless with stats, and doesn’t care.
By the way, you paranoid prat, woman wanting to prevent rape on the street are going to have trouble fitting a Bushmaster rifle in their handbag.
They’re pretty useless at preventing the type of rape I would say women fear most. Pretty good at shooting up the maximum number of people in short space of time, though.
Is this the feminist in you speaking out on behalf of womenhood? You and Sandra making the big points for womenhood. Did you steal any bread on the weekend? Have you washed up after breakfast? Scared any children lately. So many questions, so much to do, such little time
Let’s face it – you’re just not going to be as bold in going around and using your brute strength to savage women if you have it in the back of your mind that they may well be armed and ready to defend themselves.
Violent assault, too, is lower in the US than in Australia.
Anti-gun nuts like to focus on the crimes committed by people with guns but refuse to ponder the number of crimes prevented by people with guns
Actually they aggregate it all with suicides.
Removing guns doesn’t change the overall suicide rate.
Basically they use the fact that suiciders use the quickest method possible to ghoulishly skew the data to their dishonest argument.
Splato says
“Now I am a father I am instilling into my children the same practical instruction that has held me in good stead all these years.
I would say I know a lot more than you and your moronic husband who in your opinion was such a threat to your son’s safety that you had to surrender his firearm for him.
Why do you think only mothers care about children’s safety? Misandry alert!”"
I am glad you got such great instruction in firearm management. Its a shame your manners instruction appears to be somewhat lacking Splato. There was no call at all to insult my good husband thankyou. not only that you misinterpreted my post completely.
My husband is not in this blog to respond to your comment but I bet he could soon take you out without a firearm.
The figures above showed that 1% of Australian women will be raped as opposed to 0.4% of American women; these show that 91.6 per 100,000 Australian women get raped as opposed to 30.2 per 100,000 American women.
And the countries with the lowest rate of rape on that page? Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (none at all!). Do you think perhaps that different countries have different methodologies for reporting and definitions for rape that result in the comparisons there being rather useless?
I thought I was the only person who couldn’t quite get a grip on how liberal media critics are nearly always completely unconcerned by the increasing depiction of violence and psychopathology as entertainment over the last 40 years.
* What were the Roman circuses?
* The stocks in public locations?
* The public hanging / beheading / drawing & quartering?
* Bear & Bull fights?
* Public duels of honour?
It takes a deliberate effort to have such a vast array of ignorance.
Do you think perhaps that different countries have different methodologies for reporting and definitions for rape that result in the comparisons there being rather useless?
Neolithic barbaric cultures do not colect statistics on the crime as in such cases the women is the perpetrator and the man is the victim.
Do you think perhaps that different countries have different methodologies for reporting and definitions for rape that result in the comparisons there being rather useless?
Do you really believe that America, home of the modern feminist, under-reports sexual assaults by a factor of as much as three as compared to Australia?
He won’t admit that sexual assault figures are not the same as rape figures.
He won’t admit that comparing rape and assault figures internationally is fraught with uncertainty because of issues to do with definitions and how often women are prepared to report them.
He won’t admit that most rapes/sexual assaults have long been said to occur with someone the victim knows, making it all the less likely that the victim is going to be armed at the time of her assault out of concern for her safety.
He pretends that women say “yes, I fear most from a bloke I know – my boyfriend/work colleague/lecturer” instead of “I fear for my safety when out on the street at night – you don’t know what creeps are around”.
Simplistic, stupid, paranoid; but all justified as long as no one touches his guns.
A FOURFOLD increase in people-smuggler networks in Sri Lanka is driving the surge of boats that threatens to overwhelm Australia’s border protection regime.
Australian authorities have identified about 12 major people-smugglers operating in Sri Lanka – up from three a year ago.
The expansion has been driven by criminal opportunists seeking to cash in on the lucrative trade by spreading false promises of jobs in Australia.
Do you reckon it’s the pitch about ‘abundant jobs’ that is the selling point ?
I believe in women learning self-defense techniques. Of necessity, in my teens I taught myself a good knee in the groin method (or threat of it) which was a useful deterrent when men were being unreasonable in their ardour. It pulls them up – ummm – short, shall we say. But it is only useful if you can then run, or if he’s talking reasonable again. Worst offender in the reasonable category was a man in evening tails carrying a Stradivarius – a member of a world-renowned symphony orchestra after the show, a pre-arranged late dinner date. I had to fend him off for half and hour before he desisted and departed. In retrospect, I should have threatened to bust the Strad.
I wouldn’t pretend I could deter a determined and strong male rapist, although I could try to get a headstart running (ditching the heels). Da Hairy Ape made me go to Self Defense for Women classes, and he gave me some practice. They teach you a few tricks there to get you away from a nasty situation.
We also have a hidden personal alarm system in the house connected to a security agency.
Mostly I am a bit of a Polyanna about this – the genuine Polly not the twitty sunnygirl one. The genuine Polyanna took a positive view while making a careful and realistic assessment of her situation at all times.
Conservatives seem offended at the very presence of boats. It’s almost irrational.
Do any of the shit stirrers protest the way welfare is administered? No. Just the boats. Now that would be fair enough if they were ALL fraudulent.
Some of the asylum seekers do get a positive review and become refugees. I am well aware there is a lot of fraud here so don’t lecture me please. It took me a long time to accept that conservatives don’t want boats because they are dangerous. I don’t know why they find it so concerning – if people are willing to die to come here to get on welfare – well there isn’t much to dissuade them other than cut of the spigot.
So firstly I’m angry that the talkback radio hosts and John Howard, Ruddock and Abbot barely acknowledge the legit claims and refuse to piss off any of their supporters who are living off Government largesse. It is cowardice.
Please note the boat and refugee arrivals from about 1980 to 1992.
What happened. Were the incentives different? Were the numbers fudged? Is mandatory detention necessary to send people smugglers broke?
Surely if you let people in, destroy the boat and arrest the people smuggler wouldn’t that end people smuggling…but that assumes most of them get caught. But why wouldn’t they get caught? We spend a lot of resources on this and use a lot of military grade surveillance equipment to measure and detect such activity.
Secondly, what Gillard did with regards to Malaysia and creating more boat arrivals, wastefully trashing what Howard set up and then going back to it, was callous, stupid and smacked of born to rule arrogance where her mistakes are ones us “mere mortals” can’t foresee. Except everyone bloody did.
What was she thinking sending people to a country where refugees are beaten up in pogroms?
I always find it pig ignorant and hypocritical in the extreme that the left pilloried Howard for mandatory detention when it was set up by Paul Keating in a hare brained “law and order” campaign to boost his image.
but one of the things often noted is how rape and sexual assaults are often via someone the victim knows.
I would bet that there are few cases of that kind of rape ever deterred by knowing that the girlfriend has a gun somewhere in the house.
sfb, how about “drilling down” yourself? The hidden fact about the above claim regarding rape/ sexual assault is that it cack-handedly includes any person the victim may have met in the past, from her local green grocer or doorman, up to and including the current boyfriend or husband. I would imagine that a great many of these men would be deterred in part from such a possibility.
I believe in women learning self-defense techniques.
I know many people who are martial arts instructors (Hapkido, Karate, Boxing, Aikido, Tae Kwon Do, Muai Thai, BJJ). They think this is good but it can lead to a false sense of security.
Often you are better to actually take up a martial art, making sure you practice it effectively with fully grown and athletic men.
You don’t buy a gun and never practice with it, do you?
The State police forces usually teach good self awareness courses which teach more than self defence – good habits like not making yourself vulnerable etc.
What they’ve also seen is that a lot of the women simply don’t fight back hard enough.
Same deal – put two ordinary guys in the ring and they usually find it hard to punch the shit out of each other.
Actually, the inclusion of persons one has only meet once was not really cack-handed at all but deliberately used in order to be misleading and to cast aspersions on women’s partners.
good self awareness courses which teach more than self defence – good habits like not making yourself vulnerable etc.
Yep, Dot, the one I did taught all that too.
When I told Da Hairy Ape about what SfB said, he thought Stevie might have had a point there. Except, I knew these tradie guys were OK, there was never only just one working in the place, and I absolutely had to take this one time opportunity to wear-in my new heels.
SO – on Saturday nite at a great party I danced and danced and danced my little feet off in them, and Sunday not a twinge or a blister to show for it. Other girls were dancing in impossible heels, so high they were unwalkable without their platform base. Ape thought they looked tremendously hot, (especially the sunkissed raven-haired one in the shorty short white skirt and bareback top; Ape got up and did his special apedance for her), but I know their feet were killing them in their never-worn-before new shoes.
Surely if you let people in, destroy the boat and arrest the people smuggler wouldn’t that end people smuggling…but that assumes most of them get caught. But why wouldn’t they get caught? We spend a lot of resources on this and use a lot of military grade surveillance equipment to measure and detect such activity.
The policy of destroying boats and arresting the crew has had the unintended (I hope) side effect of making the journeys more dangerous. Smugglers know this is going to happen so they use boats which are as cheap as possible (often unseaworthy). And they don’t send experienced crew, or the experienced ones get off before its likely the boat will be detected leaving inexperienced crew behind. So if the boat does get into trouble no one knows what to do. And we often end up arresting children crewing the boats who had little to no idea what was really going on.
As I said the other day, the only seal of the confessional is the one being run by the ALP – the only political party in the world to have selected no fewer than three leaders convicted of raping children.
SOUTH Australia’s Labor government approved a decision, made in a crisis strategy meeting attended by spin doctors seven months ago, not to tell parents about child-sex charges against a teacher and to mislead the school’s governing council.
The Australian can today reveal a meeting on May 16 of the highly regarded Adelaide eastern suburbs school’s leadership team and Education Department staff, including from the media unit, considered a recommendation to inform the school community.
Japan’s prime minister conceded defeat in parliamentary elections Sunday, signaling the return to power of the Liberal Democratic Party and ending the brief rule of the disappointing upstart Democratic Party of Japan…
Public broadcaster NHK said the LDP and its coalition partner, the new Komei party, gained at least 302 seats in the 480-seat lower house. CNN’s main affiliate, TV Asahi, reports the LDP/Komei coalition gained at least 312 seats.
Eight boats and 416 illegal immigrants have arrived in the last seven days.
Not that it gets reported in msm anymore.
For the ABC/FauxFacts/Newscorp/TV reporter Lefties would force them to face the painful dilemma that it ws the repugnant policies they pushed endlessly has lured over 1,000 to their deaths.
The policy of destroying boats and arresting the crew has had the unintended (I hope) side effect of making the journeys more dangerous. Smugglers know this is going to happen so they use boats which are as cheap as possible (often unseaworthy). And they don’t send experienced crew, or the experienced ones get off before its likely the boat will be detected leaving inexperienced crew behind. So if the boat does get into trouble no one knows what to do. And we often end up arresting children crewing the boats who had little to no idea what was really going on.
Surely the asylum seekers see a 15 year old “captain” and say WTF, where’s my 30k?
A PUBLIC servant who was injured while having sex during a work trip has won compensation after a five-year legal battle.
The full bench of the Federal Court has dismissed an appeal from workplace health insurer Comcare, which had argued the woman’s motel room tryst had nothing to do with her job…
The woman, who worked for a federal government agency, was sent on a work trip to an office in regional NSW in November 2007.
Her employer booked her a motel, where she arranged to meet and dine with a male friend after work.
They returned to her room and had sex, during which a glass light fitting above the bed was pulled off its mount and fell onto her face.
You can imagine it being a realistic outcome that people will be trained by OH&S shysters about how to root safely whilst on a work funded extra marital affair now.
“Well, we put you through the training, you know to get tied up the safe way, a lamp fell on your face, now that’s on you”
The backs of hotel doors will now carry a safe rooting poster in addition to the extract from the Inkeeper’s Act.
Surely the asylum seekers see a 15 year old “captain” and say WTF, where’s my 30k?
There’s been quite a few reports of the captains and experienced crew getting picked up by another boat once they’re out to sea.
Strangely, you continue back the repugnant policies that lure people to their deaths and show no ability to learn.
If the main concern was the welfare of the asylum seekers we’d send good quality boats to pick them up ourselves or grant them visas to fly to Australia. Most of them would have enough money to pay their own way over if they didn’t have to pay people smugglers.
Yes chris but stuff (important stuff) happens at the margin.
Just because there are murders doesn’t mean that life imprisonment or capital punishment doesn’t work.
If the main concern was the welfare of the asylum seekers we’d send good quality boats to pick them up ourselves or grant them visas to fly to Australia. Most of them would have enough money to pay their own way over if they didn’t have to pay people smugglers.
1. Increasing taxes
2. Increasing Government debt
3. Increasing Government waste
4. Increasing occupational licensing
…would lower the unemployment rate?
Alice. You’re gonna have to explain the finer points of how your plan works.”
1. insert at end “selectively on those who have had massive tax reductions in the past 40 years since inequality started its long rise upward”
2 combines with 3. Cross out the word waste and replace it with “spending on infrastructure to create jobs”. If debt is needed so be it. Returning to surplus too fast will kill jobs (and thats what the problem is now – lack of jobs). If the debt stimulates GDP it will result in higher incomes and that may return a cyclical surplus – so take a chill pill on government debt for once.
This isnt the household budget we are talking about and households dont earn tax income which goes up when the economy goes up.
What kills government budgets is downturns to a greater degree, than debt.
You know and I know its all a question of degree and timing and you cannot have a blanket no debt stance unless you are a fool. No waste is fine but debt doesnt mean waste. Look for the waste and kill that by all means.
3. Inflation may kill jobs but lack of demand will kill jobs deeper and longer. Raise interest rates so the poor can get something from their savings and capital isnt so cheap that firms can buy “labour replacing technology” adding to unemployment.
If I have to explain the finer points of this argument to you I am surprised Dot.
1. insert at end “selectively on those who have had massive tax reductions in the past 40 years since inequality started its long rise upward”
Who has had massive tax cuts, Alice?
The taxes on building a new home in NSW can total up to 46% of the purchase price.
Who doesn’t pay this?
Who is exempt from the carbon tax?
Who is exempt from the automatic indexation of excise taxes?
What millionaires are exempt from the MRRT?
Please tell us who got those tax cuts and why reinstituting “equity” would create more jobs.
A perfectly inequitable tax we could cut and create jobs with is payroll tax. Abolishing it would be pro employment and very pro equity.
2 combines with 3. Cross out the word waste and replace it with “spending on infrastructure to create jobs”. If debt is needed so be it. Returning to surplus too fast will kill jobs (and thats what the problem is now – lack of jobs). If the debt stimulates GDP it will result in higher incomes and that may return a cyclical surplus – so take a chill pill on government debt for once.
This isnt the household budget we are talking about and households dont earn tax income which goes up when the economy goes up.
What kills government budgets is downturns to a greater degree, than debt.
You know and I know its all a question of degree and timing and you cannot have a blanket no debt stance unless you are a fool. No waste is fine but debt doesnt mean waste. Look for the waste and kill that by all means.
You are defining a problem away. How are you going to eliminate waste if you increase Government spending?
If households don’t earn tax income, how do they pay it?
3. Inflation may kill jobs but lack of demand will kill jobs deeper and longer. Raise interest rates so the poor can get something from their savings and capital isnt so cheap that firms can buy “labour replacing technology” adding to unemployment.
Inflation isn’t demand, Alice. In the long run, inflation reduces real wages and thus reduces demand.
How do the poor fare with asset price inflation? How did they go after the post 2002 property boom? What is their rent like now?
who talk wistfully about me to their friends and partners
ahahahahahahahahaha Stevie. You wish.
HIA thinks you sound like a total wimp. He don’t like your politics.
He will not defend my honour with fistcuffs when it is impugned by wimpy old guys. He says the only way he would consider taking you out is with the garbage.
No need though, I say. We have a new and reformed Stevie around.
Just noticed that Wifey bought Leunig’s book to give to someone for a Christmas present.
Two thoughts struggled for prominence; (a) who is the poor soul that we dislike so much, and (b) annoyance that I contributed one cent to the royalty dribble for that miserable anti-Semite and faux-intellectual poseur, whose inane garbage perfectly, wholly and totally captures the malign streak behind the touchy-feely-naif Green Left front for which Fairfax sacrificed its shareholders’ equity and its credibility to become the house organ.
Actually, Lizzie, speaking of women and me: I had a close encounter with an ex girlfriend last night. Sitting on the footpath-y section of a cafe at Southbank, my wife and kids had gone to the toilets. She walked up and started reading the menu, barely 2m from where I was sitting, and I was facing her directly. She was in company with a few female friends. She obviously had not noticed me.
I did not know what to do – say “Hi, if you eat here you’ll meet the wife and family soon. Remember – the woman you were annoyed about?”
I decided to stay silent, and she instead moved on, never noticing me, and it may be another 10 years before this happens again. (Actually, I think I spied her once before at a concert I was at by myself. I chickened out of making myself know then too.)
And here ends my Lizzie-like comment all about myself.
I am not a fist fightin’ man now, Lizzie, he declares. Dose days are over. Don’t you wurry, I am a big conversationalist with everyone now.
He is too. The old Irish charm works a treat, especially if I kick him under the table or dig him in the ribs if he is getting too stroppy over things Irish. Once I missed and kicked a VIP next to him and had to invent a reflex reaction to a biting insect which everyone then spent time looking for. A useful distraction anyway which served the same purpose as a kick.
Dot asset price inflation could also be being driven by low interest rate fetishes by the central bank so people look for something to park their money in that returns a higher rate of interest.
I agree asset price rises in housing is killing the young in this country but that is not general inflation – that is a relative asset price inflation that may have little to do with the general level of inflation.
You need to look also at the other factors that leads people to push up the prices of houses.
The thing that gets me is that the Feds might be stupid enough to decrease the GST-free threshhold for imports even if it doesn’t raise any more revenue, just to keep the Shoppies sweet.
Dot asset price inflation could also be being driven by low interest rate fetishes by the central bank so people look for something to park their money in that returns a higher rate of interest.
You’re against low interest rates and low inflation?
You need to look also at the other factors that leads people to push up the prices of houses.
I mentioned high taxes but you seem to want to levy more taxes.
From the support the tweet is getting, it seems that the press-censoring left actually don’t mind if Rupert Murdoch directs his newspapers to take a particular politcal stance, so long as it’s a stance they agree with.
(* files that one away for the next round of Murdoch bashing and claims that he has too much control of the media)
How are they going to police GST on online putrchases? It will cost them a fortune to open up every parcel toat comes from O/S, not to mention breaches of privacy…
I vow to limit my retail shopping in Australia to groceries to the greatest extent that I can.
Have you seen the relative prices (half to a third) and quality (at least ten times) of groceries in France. If it was possible I’d have a standard weekly order airfreighted from Carrefour… would still save money even with the freight costs.
(* files that one away for the next round of Murdoch bashing and claims that he has too much control of the media)
It doesn’t matter. Next time the haters need a distraction from their latest blunder are looking for something to manufacture confected hate about, Rupert will get a good kicking.
Nicola Roxon and her Gal Qaeda pals will no doubt be looking to Mali for inspiration after this:
They were told to assemble in Gao’s market place at dusk. A man accused of using tobacco was escorted before the crowd by several members of the al-Qaida splinter group Movement for Tawhid and Jihad in West Africa.
“Then they chopped off his hand. They wanted to show us what they could do,” said Ahmed, 39, a meat trader from the town in northern Mali.
You good man on the markets, Pickles. Your wife very smart lady too. Special price tomatos for you from Lizzie. Big thread ’bout fat ladies just opened up by Sinc. I think straight away, must tell my friend Pickles. He like fat ladies, too much.
“…the only seal of the confessional is the one being run by the ALP – the only political party in the world to have selected no fewer than three leaders convicted of raping children.”
If stats were done on the number of child-rapists and kiddie-fiddlers in parliamentary Labor in Australia, relative to the number of children with whom they’d come in contact overall, it’d be London to a brick on that the churches would be regarded as the safest place for children.
This case has been going for ages — I wonder if Slater & Gordon have carriage of the matter?
Well it’s a good thing it was a compo action commenced prior to June 2012 because O’Farrell has totally rooted the ‘werkers’ when it comes to compensations for injuries now. Pity the ‘werkers’ and their Unions are totally schtum!!!
In September, Christine Lagarde threatened the country with a “red card”, meaning potential expulsion from the Fund and the G20, if it does not do more to produce reliable statistics on its inflation and GDP. There has been no word so far from President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner’s government about its likely response.
IMF wants better statistics or they’ll kick Argentina out which means they get kicked out of most international economic groupings.
Better statistics? Is this because of the bail out a few years ago?
Hahahaha Gillard found another way to piss Abbott and his family off.
By disrupting their time in their next abode.
It’s beyond farcical her spite. LOL.
“You’re against low interest rates and low inflation?”
You know what Dot? I am against low interest rates. I am not against low to mild inflation. We certainly dont have an inflation problem so shy the obsession.You did mention the real problem we have is unemployment. Inflattion isnt always and everywhere the cause of every unemployment Dot. You are fighting the wrong monster this time.
I am against low interest rates because there are plenty of savers in this country who dont want to back the share markets and who dont want to sink their savings into real estate and maybe cant afford to yet. Those people (including the young saving up to buy a house and the retirees living of their safe bank account savings) need a break.
When interest rates are too low every firm can afford the technology that displaces and removes labour, rather than enhances the productivity of their existing labour. Its not all about capital winning at the expense of labour or you get what we have now Dot. High unemployment and lack of demand.
Regards to Dave f . I will have to look up what it means to be a “statist”.
Alice a ‘statist’ is someone who sees the only answer to any problem is to involve the government ie the state.
I actually feel the inflation rates are very much understated. They use a basket of goods that I believe leans more toward irregular purchases than regular, weekly purchases.
Also it includes products that are virtually all tax so any variation in government policy is usually adjusted out further weakening the model they use.
When interest rates are too low every firm can afford the technology that displaces and removes labour, rather than enhances the productivity of their existing labour.
Alice
Who taught you that?
We have been accumulating capital since the 1500s in a meaningful sense.
They employ more capital and the capital labour ratio increases, and the marginal product of labour increases, thus the demand for labour increases.
You actually think cheap capital investment means lower levels of employment?
Please explain the high taxes you think are pushing up the price of houses (I may even agree with some of what you say – namely stamp duties – a ridiculous impost now when it was originally for the cost of stamps)
” You need to look also at the other factors that leads people to push up the prices of houses.
I mentioned high taxes but you seem to want to levy more taxes.”
I refer to the need to raise income taxes on certain groups. I also refer to the need for an equitable way the states can claw back some of our income taxes the fed govt will not give back fairly as it should)
– thus leaving the state governments with no option but to raise unfair taxes like stamp duties on the cost of purchasing a house or unit. Carr’s govt made a motza from this during the boom and got itself addicted instead of fighting the real fight for an equitable share of our income taxes from Canberra
(who have I might add – have gilded the lily in the city of Canberra at Sydney’s expense and other cities expense for decades now).
The fever for gun control (as opposed to most weeks, when any form of control by leftists is front page news) peaks at times like this. Obama asks whether we are going to take it lying down. Are we powerless? Are we going to let politics get in the road?
Chris Uhlmann uses the loaded language when he asks on the highly respected 7.30 Report if the “political might” (that’s something which if he approved of the cause would be called “democracy at work”) of the gun lobby would still prevail.
What Obama should be exercising power over, and what Uhlmann and Peters the invited anti-gun talking head should all be supporting, is a return to (a) morally strong society rather than post-modern free-for-all, but this means abandoning their anti-christian (but strangely pro-muslim) stance, and acepting that bad behaviour can only be fought by education and, more importantly, a home-based moral upbringing.
So far, I’d say the report card favoured just about anything but the moral relativists and the muslims that the left media are busy making into a force for change, but are yet to twig that they actually hate everything the left stands for.
When they find the courage to return to a mental health policy which sends the mentally ill into therapy rather than onto the streets (where they swell the “Homeless Industry”) I’ll resume paying attention to them.
Please explain the high taxes you think are pushing up the price of houses (I may even agree with some of what you say – namely stamp duties – a ridiculous impost now when it was originally for the cost of stamps)
The CIE study showed that the Australian housing sector contributes nearly $40 billion in taxation revenue to federal, state and local governments in Australia each year – 11% of the total taxation revenue collected by all tiers of government.
Further, the new housing sector accounts for 1.2% of the Australian economy’s value added yet contributes 2.8% of all taxation revenue.
The total taxation burden on a new home can now be well over 40% of its purchase price – most of which is borne by the home buyer. This means that the tax component of a new home is now so large, it usually exceeds the costs of land.
You go on, Alice
I refer to the need to raise income taxes on certain groups. I also refer to the need for an equitable way the states can claw back some of our income taxes the fed govt will not give back fairly as it should)
What need?
Why not tax others less? Like abolishing payroll tax?
Let’s go back to the production function Alice. Let’s use more labour and capital. Output and real wages will be higher. That’s indisputable.
The states could reform their own taxes, but yes that would only get them so far. The Feds take the GST and income tax in all of its forms.
We have been accumulating capital since the 1500s in a meaningful sense.
They employ more capital and the capital labour ratio increases”
Does it Dot? Really? I think you look more deeply and are amking assumptions again.
When accummulation of capital occurs along with the displacement of labour and a higher Nairu I would start being concerned with the type of capital accummulation that peristent low interest rates permits.
ie not labour saving capital Dot, but labour displacing capital.
Former Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer has called on President Obama to ‘knuckle down and do the job’ by following Australia’s lead in implementing tougher gun control laws after 27 people were shot dead in Connecticut last week.
Mr Fischer supported the Howard Government’s measures to implement tougher gun control laws around the country following 1996’s Port Arthur Massacre.
Speaking with 3AW Breakfast, Mr Fischer said the ‘ball was in the President’s court’.
“Our culture is now such that it is delivering a safety template 15 times better than USA,” he said.
“You have 15 times more likelihood of being shot dead per million people than you have here in Australia.
“It’s time the United States of America really got on with the job.”
Does it Dot? Really? I think you look more deeply and are amking assumptions again.
Yes. Capital accumulation increases real wages.
When accummulation of capital occurs along with the displacement of labour and a higher Nairu I would start being concerned with the type of capital accummulation that peristent low interest rates permits.
ie not labour saving capital Dot, but labour displacing capital.
What kind of capital displaces labour? You need to be more specific.
Dot I do niot find any of your argument in post at 8.23pm contradictory to mine especially re the burden of taxes on home ownership. I thought I made my points clear on the sort of tax increases I think necessary and they have nothing to do with the taxes you raise in this post.
You ask “what need?”
I refer to income taxes raises on certain groups as being an effective measure at this point in time, to be quite clear as it appears you misunderstand me.
I do not refer to the raising of taxes such as stamp duties on home wonership (I would prefer to see these lowered). I agree with the abolishing of payroll tax – provided the states gets a fair share bacxk from the C’wealth of the income taxes we pay (and at the moment they are not getting and have not been getting it for decades leading to a whole raft of stupid state taxes).
Look to the C’wealth for your waste (but look at how they do not share with the States) Dot.
I was speaking to my Dad today about the gun thing and he trots out the standard leftist/statist lines (he’s very much brain washed by the ABC) so I asked him:
“Dad you had a gun for pretty much 20 years, how many people did you murder?”
Angry reaction. That’s pretty much it.
btw he had the gun with him virtually every day, he surveyed in the bush for many years where the team would often hunt for dinner and also in New Britain in the jungle, definitely needed a gun there.
You know what Dot? I am against low interest rates. I am not against low to mild inflation. We certainly dont have an inflation problem so shy the obsession.You did mention the real problem we have is unemployment. Inflattion isnt always and everywhere the cause of every unemployment Dot. You are fighting the wrong monster this time.
Inflation alters asset values and means there is excess money supply.
Uneconomic projects get inflated returns in the financial market without producing goods to back them up in the goods market. Excess money supply lowers interest rates – but not capital costs unless all firms are purely levered.
Inflation is a problem, Alice. You are ignoring it and wondering why investment can lead to declining demand.
I refer to income taxes raises on certain groups as being an effective measure at this point in time, to be quite clear as it appears you misunderstand me.
How would this reduce unemployment?
They would spend less, invest less and work less – not in jobs that anyone can just do.
an example of capital that displaces labour is simplistically auto scanning machines for your target purchases or bar code do it yourself scanning in supermarkets, or even ATMs (but that has already happened), any capital that involves toi customer DIY for example.
I am sure there atre many more examples – I could suggest a coca cola bottling plant that is entirely robotisized and produces enough drinks for thr whole of Australia plus more Asian markets without a single worker on the factory floor…
That is capital that has displaced labour Dot and it becomes more affordable when interest rates are low and low for prolonged lengths of time.
Dot – you are wrong on State Rail – there may have been inefficiencies in the past but we still want a decent rail system and I happen to think Gladys is doing a good job (at last).
Actually you are arguing for indexation of taxes, I think, Alice.
Stamp duty wasn’t a huge issue until Sydney prices went through the roof. If the threshold was increased at the level of land inflation it would be far lower now.
Same for income tax, raise thresholds with wage increases.
Land prices are purely a result of regulatory block. What you are buying is not the land, it’s the permit to build. I’ve mentioned before that if every block was zoned for a 6 storey block of flats then housing prices would drop.
an example of capital that displaces labour is simplistically auto scanning machines for your target purchases or bar code do it yourself scanning in supermarkets, or even ATMs (but that has already happened), any capital that involves toi customer DIY for example.
This is nonsense and you haven’t made any distinction between the two concepts Alice.
“Labour displacing capital” is a busted arse Marxian concepts.
I am sure there atre many more examples – I could suggest a coca cola bottling plant that is entirely robotisized and produces enough drinks for thr whole of Australia plus more Asian markets without a single worker on the factory floor…
Nonsense Alice. The cost to build such a plant would be prohibitive and not profit or wealth maximising.
That is capital that has displaced labour Dot and it becomes more affordable when interest rates are low and low for prolonged lengths of time.
You have not made any distinction between labour saving and displacement.
You are saying that technology only advances when interest rates are ‘too low’.
Technology has steadily improved since the late middle ages. Interest rates were not permanently below the natural rate nor have the majority of humanity been rendered unemployable and destitute.
You are arguing an obscure Marxist theory that flies in the face of history.
The states is so far off the track I can’t put it into words.
He is unlikely, however, to take up a prominent place in the civil rights pantheon. “I would acknowledge the fact that he was the first senator of colour, I would not really consider him to be the first African-American senator,” said the Rev Joseph Darby, a prominent black leader in Charleston, the city where the civil war began. Mr Darby added that Mr Scott’s political views did nothing to help the African-American community. In short: he is a conservative Republican.
A black man appointed to the US Senate from SOUTH CAROLINA.
Fort Sumpter. The first state to secede from the Union.
Alice I’d suggest you listen to this catchy song about what is unseen in economics, its a bit rappy but has a good tune.
When you are talking about machines replacing people you can see it happening – ATMs, check out scanners etc – but it’s the unseen benefit of a small guy being able to start his own Asian supermarket in DY without all the staff overheads he would need without the scanners.
The pizza man who has the equivalent to an ATM in his shop to receive payment.
The unseen benefits. Which benefit all us.
The video is a winner I suggest everyone takes a look if they haven’t seen it.
“You are saying that technology only advances when interest rates are ‘too low’.”
Go back and read my argument sonny. I am arguing against the sort of capital accummulation that is occurring with interest rates that are too low for sustained periods of time. There must be a balance between capital and labour. Every economist is aware of this. Capital accummulation when it is cheap to accummulate for too long is destrctive to the labour share and that destruction is what puts people out of jobs.
I know there are unseen benefits DaveF for the small guy starting a business but who buys his goods when he cant offer a siungle job to his community bar his own?
There is a tradeoff and the small guy will soon feel it if the balance isnt there and untimately no amount of technology will help him open that shop.
How many small corner stores with groceries eytc are there in Dee Why still? Labour saving devices or not? Can the giy make a buck?
Here is some news – cars are getting cheaper and smaller new. Car yards even for new cars used to call Joe the wholesaler to buy the ld trade ins.
Now with margins even tighter they are tenering their trade ins. The wholesalers are leaving in droves. New car yards now want to make money on the new sale and money on the old (probably because money on the new is tighter).
With that development the used car yards also feel the pinch etc.
Bet these new cars are made in robot factories and will soon join computers for cheapness and enoironmental disposability problems…and we can all forget buying used cars. There eont be any available and all new cars will come with a five year warranty after which time we will throw them away. There goes another tranche of small to medium business industry to the capital intensive international plants.
What balance, Alice? What balance is optimal? What rate of inflation, or interest (which one) is optimal?
There must be a balance between capital and labour. Every economist is aware of this.
I’m not.
We’ve been increasing the capital-labour ratio despite population increases for centuries in the first world, and we continue to get higher standards of living.
You are appealing to authority.
Please make a distinction between labour saving and labour displacing capital.
Capital accummulation when it is cheap to accummulate for too long is destrctive to the labour share and that destruction is what puts people out of jobs.
Alice
You are saying that lower wages increase unemployment.
The demand for labour falls when labour productivity falls. Yes there can be credit cycles and business cycles under prolonged pump priming – which is what you are asking for.
You are also saying that higher labour productivity lowers labour demand, viz wages and employment at the same time.
You’re going to have to explain this in more detail.
How many small corner stores with groceries eytc are there in Dee Why still? Labour saving devices or not? Can the giy make a buck?
Plenty. They are run by Koreans.
Bet these new cars are made in robot factories and will soon join computers for cheapness and enoironmental disposability problems…and we can all forget buying used cars. There eont be any available and all new cars will come with a five year warranty after which time we will throw them away. There goes another tranche of small to medium business industry to the capital intensive international plants.
Alice. If it is cheaper to buy a new car than an old one, why would you buy an old one?
You’re the first person I’ve encountered who actually thinks cheaper cars are bad for society. If cheap cars are bad, why is expensive housing bad? They all must be purchased from a household budget.
Just wondering about your gravatar Mk50. A Royal Navy Armoured Cruiser on fire… HMS Defence at Jutland? Who is the artist? Certainly a very striking image.
RE: cheaper new cars forcing down the 2nd hand prices.
That’s actually deflation in car prices, one of my arguments about why the CPI is skewed.
Alice it’s tough to argue that new home buyers should be protected from the market whilst saying 2nd hand car owners are being done over by that same market.
Your mention of 5 year warranties is important. I’m certainly old enough to remember when 1 yr warranty was the norm then a firm offered 3 years and now its 5 as standard, usually with a drive train at 10.
The repair men have lost their jobs but I think we all agree we’re better off now they build better cars.
“You’re the first person I’ve encountered who actually thinks cheaper cars are bad for society. If cheap cars are bad, why is expensive housing bad? ”
I think cheaper lots of things are bad for society Dot, not just cars. However I do think expensive housing and expensive rents is very very bad for society (for the simple reason that some form of accommodation is a vtal necessity to most people’s lives and I quite selfishly dont want them all wandering the streets every night if they cant afford a roof over their heads).
You dont get me at all Dot. We can do without the cars and the electronic gadgets but most of us cant do without affordable accommodation.
Thats it – a lefty with a love of cars….where did the style go??
God give me a Lincoln Covertible and let me go around Oahu in it again! Bring them back.
No chance. They are all windtunnel designed into the most boring boxy poxy shapes now.
Cheaper cars are boring and even expensive ones look boring these days IMHO.
She’s HMS Good Hope, dying at Coronel. Kit Cradock has always been something of a hero of mine.
He was a very highly thought-of senior officer in the Navy of his era.
If there was one man who was caught by his duty, and forced by (incompetent) second-guessers half a world away into a situation where he knew he was taking his entire command to certain death, it was Cradock.
Churchill snaked out from underneath the responsibiltiy he bore for Coronal – but the RN’s senior commanders never forgot what he had done.
I am trying to find the artist, to commission another such painting.
Dot
“Public transport is at overcapacity as it is.”
Then build it bigger and mass transport if its at capacity. Help the environment reduce demand for cars to move one at a time…make the future gens pay for it if they get the use of it (that nis intergenerational equity – if they get the use they pay as well). Do the big infrastructure project and make governments use their buying power to get discounts (and tell the miserable ratings agencies to piss off)
Now is the time to build if its at capacity. Might even create quite a few jobs. If governments had to invest in something decent it might make them look at bullshot like belonging to OECD etc or cabcahrges or teir super or where else the waste is.
I must be seeing well tonight – no glasses either jumpncar. Last post spelling slipping tho…its really bedtime..Ive had it. When I see what hour people in here stay up to I am amazed.
Ok get this. A UK MP is a bit of a self publicist and seems to be maybe a narcissist as well.
Pinged for a divorce from her husband 5 years ago when it appears she never married him at all.
In 2010, the MPs’ standards watchdog criticised her blog for being misleading about how much time she spent in her constituency.
Mrs Dorries mounted an astonishing defence: ‘My blog is 70 per cent fiction and 30 per cent fact. It is written as a tool to enable my constituents to know me better and to reassure them of my commitment to Mid-Bedfordshire. I rely heavily on poetic licence.’
Financial fraud, a crooked psychic, retired race horse owner from Gloustershire, reality TV are all elements in this tale.
Man our political scandals are weak as water – Eddie Obeid the exception, but even that lacks the colour of South African beachfront investment property.
I don’t see what Churchill could have done differently. In football parlance, the RN didn’t have the cattle to take on Von Spee. They could choose to bring VS to action, knowing that the South Atlantic Squadron would likely lose, but hopefully damage VS’ squadron and at least denude it of ammo. Which they did, fatally for all British concerned. As usual it was the hopelessly vague Admiralty orders that were at fault, as in those issued to Troubridge in the chase of the Goeben, plus Cradock’s knowledge that his friend was facing court martial for avoiding action. So yes, Churchill should have seen to it that Cradock’s orders were clearer, but I see his fault as being simply that of the C-in-C when people die in war doing something that had to be done. And Cradock’s sacrifice was not in vain – even VS knew they were dead men sailing from that point on.
DaveF,Thanks, I’ll look there again.
I’m pretty shitfull with research on computers.
I’m guessing less than %1 of Australians know what’s in ” the basket of goods ” that determine CPI.
I’m one of them.
I saw the list a year or 2 ago and the exquisite balancing lol.
Its more predicated on expenditure than necessary purchases so a mortgage interest change rumbles through it whilst a $1 increase in breakfast cereal leaves little impression.
Thanks Mk50. On second look, the secondary battery is clearly in casements, unlike HMS Defence’s turreted guns. Given the relative inadequacy of his command and his interpretation of his orders, it is difficult to see any other result for Craddock and his squadron. If Fisher had been appointed First Sea Lord sooner, Craddock would have had the ships to at least have had a fighting chance.
James – without going in to great detail (as ain ‘don’t get me started or we’ll be here all night’….) diverting HMS Defence without telling Cradock, and giving him aggressive but internally contradictory orders with a major CYA for the Admiralty in them were the major issues.
There were a lot of others, down to and including poor crew quality and denying Cradock intelligence he needed, while pooh-poohing his assessments as the man with his force’s head on the chopping block.
Yes, again Dave F thanks.
The CPI figures don’t seem to reflect reality.
Maybe Mr Davidson could do a post on it so the ” average mug punter ” can get a grip of it all.
He’s quite good at putting complex things in *layman terms.
* (2 a person without professional or specialized knowledge in a particular subject)
I always look at the survey parameters for this stuff. It started with the Public Health lobbyists changing the rules of statistics and it’s sort of a mental tick now.
Fun fact: the Oz smoking rate includes everyone from 14+ so the rate looks smaller. So it’s easier to impose grief.
GOVERNMENT officials have backed Tony Abbott’s explanation about the timing of his statement on sexual harassment allegations against former speaker Peter Slipper, amid questions over how much the Opposition Leader knew of the claims.
The department that runs parliamentary computer systems acknowledged today that the “date stamp” on Mr Abbott’s statement was incorrect…
While Mr Abbott’s staff member sent the press release at 9.17am on the Saturday, an analysis of the time stamp on the PDF document suggested that it was created at 11.08pm on Friday.
Labor MPs seized on the apparent discrepancy to suggest that Mr Abbott knew in advance that Mr Ashby was preparing his claim, and was therefore implicated in the actions to bring down Mr Slipper.
Thousands of disproportionately non-white children are slaughtered every year in the US by abortion mills – the biggest two having direct links to nazism.
Re the timestamp on the document thing – wasn’t Abbott in the UK?
I bet the timestamp has to do with the timezone of the computer and some stupid hack thought they had a ‘gotcha’ not realising that London is 10 hours behind.
Then build it bigger and mass transport if its at capacity. Help the environment reduce demand for cars to move one at a time…make the future gens pay for it if they get the use of it (that nis intergenerational equity – if they get the use they pay as well). Do the big infrastructure project and make governments use their buying power to get discounts (and tell the miserable ratings agencies to piss off)
Now is the time to build if its at capacity. Might even create quite a few jobs. If governments had to invest in something decent it might make them look at bullshot like belonging to OECD etc or cabcahrges or teir super or where else the waste is.
More buses and rail?
Public liabilities?
Alice. Sydney roads are monopolised by buses now. What has made a real difference is toll roads. A toll road is superior to public transport. Public transport isn’t even cheap considering how slow, putrid and potentially violent it is.
A bus takes 45 mins to get from Wynyard to Dee Why. On a good run. This is a 20 km trip.
A 20 km trip on a tollway takes about 15 minutes, if that.
Make the future generations pay for it? Sure, they’re called toll fees or train tickets. So you think everyone who uses public infrastructure ought to pay for it? They do Alice, it’s called maintenance.
There is no need to capitalise costs to the point where all projects become uneconomic.
How much do you think public infrastructure costs, Alice? A train line to Palm Beach would cost at least 3 billion AUD just to get it set up – minus any new rolling stock or ongoing staff or maintenance costs.
What discounts have Governments ever gotten Alice? You’re just being unrealistic. Don’t bring up the PBS because the PBS has a quid quo pro most people have never heard of: the Commonwealth subsidises the research of firms that sell PBS drugs equal to the PBS “savings”.
Now you are saying that investment in capital at low interest rates – buying power and repudiation of credit risk rating – will create jobs.
Your project evaluation however leaves a lot to be desired. “It might create jobs” – this is not a justification to spend money. Imagine going to a bank for a home loan – “I might be able to pay it off” or a commercial loan “The venture might turn a profit”.
Governments build plenty of stuff Alice. You can check it out in the data release by the ABS, Cat No 8762.0., I am pretty sure they say what is Government and private sector at the state level.
I still have some questions for you.
What is the appropriate capital – labour ratio?
What is the optimal interest rate?
Capital accummulation when it is cheap to accummulate for too long is destrctive to the labour share and that destruction is what puts people out of jobs.
How is this possible? it flies in the face of the last 500 years of Western history.
Don’t bring up the PBS because the PBS has a quid quo pro most people have never heard of: the Commonwealth subsidises the research of firms that sell PBS drugs equal to the PBS “savings”.
Labor MPs seized on the apparent discrepancy to suggest that Mr Abbott knew in advance that Mr Ashby was preparing his claim, and was therefore implicated in the actions to bring down Mr Slipper.
This could have been a cyber infiltration of Abbot’s office.
It’s interesting that, from the reports, the lefty blogosphere has been alive with this allegation (did anyone here hear about it?)
Methinks the dirt unit may have been using cyber tactics, deemed acceptable by the likes of Anonymous and Lulz. But it is actually illegal, Watergate style.
I don’t know. I slightly mangled the deal. I overstated the cost.
Just remember estimates of what the PBS saves or costs are based on the US, where it is presumed the US has a free market model and free market prices – which it doesn’t. The US AMA are a very strong cartel.
The Factor f scheme is a key element of the Pharmaceutical Industry
Development Program adopted by the Commonwealth Government
in 1987 to encourage the growth of the pharmaceutical industry in
Australia. The scheme is designed to compensate companies for the
effects of low prices of pharmaceuticals supplied under the
Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS). In return for higher
notional prices on some of their PBS products, companies are
required to increase their research and development (R&D)
expenditure, as well as their domestic manufacturing and export
activity in Australia.
Since the inception of the Factor f scheme in 1988, companies have
committed $1.9 billion in export value added, $1.9 billion in
domestic value added, and $538 million on R&D expenditure. In
addition, they have undertaken $604 million of investment
expenditure. The Government has allocated approximately
$1 billion in funding
Dot – I think it was stopped during the Howard years. Not sure if it was replaced by anything else. But note that it wasn’t the government subsidising research in exchange for lower PBS pricing, but the government increasing PBS prices in exchange for the drug companies committing to spending a certain amount of money on research in Australia.
That is, that program did not involve giving the drug companies money in exchange for them agreeing to lower prices for the medicines. If anything the price the government effectively paid for the drugs was lower than the PBS pricing as they also got research performed in Australia (and the money associated with that spent in Australia) that otherwise might not have happened here.
But note that it wasn’t the government subsidising research in exchange for lower PBS pricing, but the government increasing PBS prices in exchange for the drug companies committing to spending a certain amount of money on research in Australia.
That’s a subsidy.
That is, that program did not involve giving the drug companies money in exchange for them agreeing to lower prices for the medicines. If anything the price the government effectively paid for the drugs was lower than the PBS pricing as they also got research performed in Australia (and the money associated with that spent in Australia) that otherwise might not have happened here.
But note that it wasn’t the government subsidising research in exchange for lower PBS pricing, but the government increasing PBS prices in exchange for the drug companies committing to spending a certain amount of money on research in Australia.
Ever notice the committments were less than the investment? Um…and they got to charge a higher rate than their competitors.
So of course Parke Davis were pissed off when they were not put on the programme. They had an implicit tariff on them.
Arguably everyone else is also free riding. So do we tax them with a poll tax rated against their net assets?
My view is that Medicare should be two parts: a $3000 voucher per year and on top of that, a HECS style system.
An opt in, basic income (as I prefer consumption taxes), an opt (and sometimes court ordered) in in kind/income managed income assistance programme, educational vouchers, widespread privatisation, the end of wage regulation and a GST capped at 10%, a LVT capped at 2% and the WA royalties system capped at 5% – and no other taxes – or welfare – middle class or corporate.
The only difficult bit is means testing the BI without changing how a NIT / BI & VAT work ideally.
That’s how I’d run taxation, healthcare, education and poverty elimination programmes.
Theoretically there may be better schemes or taxes but that is administratively and politically easier.
Ideally too we’d run regulation and policy in general on a positive cost benefits test. Policies or regulation that fail must go. First up would be a lot of occupational licensing.
Thanks, I’m going to have to analyse that further.
The German (and I’m guessing, Swiss) Free Democratic Party propose the Citizens Dividend, so I’m assuming it must have some merit. I’ll have a look how they propose it should work.
Thousands of disproportionately non-white children are slaughtered every year in the US by abortion mills – the biggest two having direct links to nazism.
The left is cool with this. Totally cool.
“CL, you should see a therapist about your obsession with abortion.”
QED.
The left is totally cool with killing children – especially non-white ones.
The amoral animal in the White House even believes babies born alive may licitly be killed. That would be Barack Obama – recently seen shedding a ‘tear’ for children.
I might have seemed glib but basically I agree it is the most efficient and justifiable system for welfare there is. It is also fair.
My problem is that it really does open up more issues of theoretical economics and moral philosophy than you want to deal with. Don’t very poor people get a benefit by being residents of rich countries anyway?
Should they pay taxes to those in poor countries?
They’re also free riding, aren’t they?
I’d say maybe a 9-9.5 out of 10.
As for the NDIS, remember that there are 18 000 disabilities cases a year and the proposal would employ 8000 Commonwealth staff.
Their caseload would be less than three cases per year per staffer.
I reckon I could run the NDIS for about $40 million per annum.
50 staff, $300 000 average cost per staff, all up including buildings, IT etc, wages, $1000 premium for 25000 people.
Yeah, it’s too easy for people to get distracted from the core business of a framework that allows citizens to live their life and produce wealth. Everyone is looking for the philosophical magic pudding that’s going to solve all our problems and make the world perfect.
UK Daily Mail: Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade.
BBC: Handgun crime ‘up’ despite ban.
Seems the fact the politicians are ignoring the extremely complex mental health & children growing up with a father issues while they chase the easy ban all guns headline are not fixing the problems.
The Australian ‘s editor-in-chief, Chris Mitchell, said the story had been approved by the AFP before it was run.
“Meg Simons has no idea how she has been played,” he said. “We held a story for almost a week; the story as published was vetted by the AFP and via the oversight committee of the raid, by Victoria Police. We published that story, fully approved, in our last editions as agreed. Hedley Thomas’s work on the Ashby/Mullett/Operation Briars story will be fully vindicated.
“Meg should ask herself why the judge in the case and ACLEI supported The Australian’s suppression of the totally corrupt police draft report into Operation Neath. Meg’s vice-chancellor and dean need to have a good look at whether this is the sort of person who should be running a so-called Centre for Advanced Journalism. She owes Cameron Stewart a huge apology.
“Meg defamed Cameron many times on the Crikey website and elsewhere, accusing him of selling out a source. What the OPI secrecy provisions prevented us from saying was that the source had signed a deed of release before Cam was ever interviewed.
“Morally, ethically and journalistically, everyone in this business knows she should correct the record. She is 100 per cent wrong.”
I see Gerard is following Liberal Party SOP and throwing Ashby under the bus in the hope of saving Brough’s career. One would hope he and Doane have good support around them, not connected to the party.
You have a lot of unanswered questions on assumptions you cannot really justify. Your definitions are too slippery to be useful except for advancing your own positions.
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive? Hard to see how an appeal would stand up, unless the kid wins lotto.
Following his speech, Washington Post associated editor David Maraniss was apparently so moved that he took to Twitter to compare the president’s words to Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address.
“People will long remember what Barack Obama said in Newtown…his Gettysburg address,” Maraniss tweeted.
Gun control advocates are mendacious, blockheads or both.
When the ship crashed on the Rocks of Christmas Island the flint-hearted left it was “not the time for politics” and “too soon” to make a judgement and the facts needed to be heard first.
When a tragedy happens involving guns those standards disappear and the Left goes ape-sh*t demanding legislation to be rushed through.
Be suspicious.
We are yet to find out the facts of what happened in Connecticut, but the evidence so far is that the perpetrator is a person with a mental illness.
Remember Jared Loughner, once the evidence was gathered it was clear he needed treatment:
The real issue that should be discussed is treatment of the mentally ill and a deeper discussion on what the rules are to allow people to force people like that to get treatment:
Violence and Mental Illness: Is Loughner a Case for Involuntary Commitment?
…recent reports that alleged shooter Jared Lee Loughner, 22, refused a mental health evaluation after his friends and college administrators expressed worry over the state of his mental health loom large.
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive?
Because champerty and maintenance are no longer crimes or torts.
In an insightful essay in The Australian “The PM cannot count on women’s votes because she has done nothing for them,” Ergas yesterday outlined how Gillard has failed her female fans.
“Since Labor came to power”, he wrote, “the female unemployment rate has risen from 4.4 to 5.2 per cent. And surveys show women feel more at risk of losing their job now than at any point in the Howard years.”
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive? Hard to see how an appeal would stand up, unless the kid wins lotto.
monty
How can a decision like that be regarded as letting Ashby having political liberties uninterfered with?
How can a decision like that be regarded as letting Ashby having political liberties uninterfered with?
This is legislatively protected.
You’re flailing, Dot. Your post barely makes sense.
If the Coalition wants to engage in fishing expeditions, searching in vain for a smoking gun to bring down the government, it can do so outside the court system. Judges tend not to appreciate being the pawn in a partisan political game.
Where better to launch a leadership bid than the thought-free runway of breakfast TV?:
IF you thought Kevin ’07 had died and gone to heaven prepare for the second coming.
In a move that will infuriate the Gillard camp, the former PM is launching a new charm offensive that is set to fuel speculation he is still touting for the top job.
Mr Rudd will today announce the winner of his controversial campaign T-shirt competition on Channel 7′s Sunrise program.
The national broadcast just happens to coincide with Julia Gillard’s first day of leave.
More than 1000 people swamped the competition with entries after Mr Rudd invited people to design a T-shirt for the campaign for his Brisbane seat of Griffith.
Your question about mental illness and institutionalising people to protect society is a good one Token.
One I don’t have a good answer for.
On the one hand they will end up in gaol AFTER they commit a crime.
On the other a pile of corpses….
Reluctantly I’d say 20 dead 6 year olds is the price to pay for lots of non dangerous people being rounded up and institutionalised under the usual bureaucratic arse covering.
Obviously freak shows should be hauled off the streets, however it’s likely the bar will be continually lowered.
Look at the outrageous laws that keep pedos in prison after their sentence is up. There is often calls for other categories to have the same system. Prison by fiat? No thanks…
His concern about the Gillard Government is trumped by political liberty.
Rares’ concern was not about the government, it was about the process of the court. That is what he was defending, Dot. In this case, Rares ruled that the case was likely to bring the court into disrepute through Ashby’s deliberate actions, which trumped any talk of Ashby’s rights.
On the one hand they will end up in gaol AFTER they commit a crime.
On the other a pile of corpses….
There is a reason they do not institutionalise everyone they suspect to mentally ill.
We are still working through the abuse cases that resulted from the “progressive” institutionalisation of the mentally ill by state governments agencies.
Addressing the issue and finding a middle ground in cases that shout “disaster” like the Jared Loughner case is critical.
Unfortunately, the Left have a political wedge with Gun Control which they can get a sugar hit in the polls with, and therefore 3 years after the Loughner disaster are determined to avoid dealing with the real issue.
The de-institutionalisation of the 80s was a disaster which I saw in real time.
My suburb was near a big facility and over 12 months the numbers of shambling wrecks that turned up on our streets was incredible. After a while they ended up in prison.
JULIA Gillard had been on holidays for all of eight hours before Kevin Rudd popped up on morning television dancing Gangnam Style.
The former prime minister, on Seven’s Sunrise program this morning, also announced the winner of a competition to design his local campaign t-shirt – “It’s Our Ruddy Future”.
Rares ruled that the case was likely to bring the court into disrepute through Ashby’s deliberate actions, which trumped any talk of Ashby’s rights.
monty
Please explain how this is a valid decision under our constitution and the human rights charter we signed up to.
If Ashby asserts that Rares didn’t even consider his evidence, how can he declare Ashby to be vexatious or frivolous?
See Momcilovic v The Queen (2011), monty.
The High Court declared a lower court enforcing human rights law and declaring laws were to be considered for amendment to be a political action. Not merely protecting human rights, but any statement from the bench that may be considered political can be found invalid – the courts have no standing to act like this.
If that’s political, Ashby’s lawyers will take Rare’s decision apart with glee.
Parliament is sovereign and if the composition changes and they put confidence in another member to form Government on behalf of her majesty, so be it.
By protecting Gillard, Rares is actually attacking the sovereignty of Parliament.
Your knowledge of caselaw and legislation here is lacking.
Thanks, Dennis Dotto of the respected law firm Dotto, Vibe & Mabo.
The courts cannot make a rule to stop Ashby suing Slipper because of the precarious nature of Government, but it was okay to sue Mal Colston etc.
They did not, Dot. Ashby’s texts to Doane exposed that he was not actually suffering, his motive was to change the numbers in the Parliament to further his own career. Under those circumstances, the case was an abuse of process and was rightfully thrown out.
Token, you may have noticed that in Australia, the mentally ill have a much harder time killing large numbers of people with semi automatic rifles.
There will always be the mentally ill who do not get treatment that they need or deserve.
Sure, look at mental health services (although providing such government services is not exactly seen as being a speciality of Right wing small government ideology) but it no reason to not look at sensible regulation of the weapons in society that they can get their hands on.
Look at the outrageous laws that keep pedos in prison after their sentence is up. There is often calls for other categories to have the same system. Prison by fiat? No thanks…
I agree. Give them longer sentences if need be. Being convicted and then being re-sentenced without a proper hearing should happen.
If you are worried about child protection, then agitate for longer sentences and release conditional on strict psychotherapy.
Agitating for life sentences for child sex abuse comes with a warning. If the disincentive for murder is equal to other crimes, other crimes will be concealed with murders.
If you want life sentences for child sex abuse, you have to logically accept a death penalty for murder.
Token, you may have noticed that in Australia, the mentally ill have a much harder time killing large numbers of people with semi automatic rifles.
Do they Steve?
They did not, Dot. Ashby’s texts to Doane exposed that he was not actually suffering, his motive was to change the numbers in the Parliament to further his own career. Under those circumstances, the case was an abuse of process and was rightfully thrown out.
It doesn’t matter. You don’t seem to understand the gravity of Rare’s decision.
What he is doing is invalidating any future case where someone may have an ulterior motive.
Those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.
“There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston’s Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.
The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says …
Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.
• There are around 12,000 gun homicides in the US every year, which works out to about 0.0038 per cent of the US population.
• If an identical percentage of our population were to be killed on Australian roads each year, we’d have a road toll of 860.
• Australia’s road toll last year was 1,292, the lowest since 1946.
• Therefore, even given our massive improvement in road safety, it is still more likely that an Australian will die in a car crash than an American is to be shot dead.
• For the record, America’s road toll in 2011 was 32,788.
Token, you may have noticed that in Australia, the mentally ill have a much harder time killing large numbers of people with semi automatic rifles.
All true, but no games by politicians is going to change the # of weapons in the US held in illegal hands.
Look at Chicago where most firearms are illegal and there are between 5 to 15 deaths due to fire-arms each week which goes unreported (as most is black on black).
All the laws do is remove them from the over 100 million legal gun owners in the US who do no harm.
Please explain how this is a valid decision under our constitution and the human rights charter we signed up to.
No Dot, the onus is on you to explain how it is not constitutional.
See Momcilovic v The Queen (2011), monty.
The High Court declared a lower court enforcing human rights law and declaring laws were to be considered for amendment to be a political action. Not merely protecting human rights, but any statement from the bench that may be considered political can be found invalid – the courts have no standing to act like this.
If that’s political, Ashby’s lawyers will take Rare’s decision apart with glee.
LOL, you’re parroting a Greg Barns line. Good old Dennis Dotto, twisting interpretation of the law beyond all reality to suit his political agenda again. A more sober analysis in the Oz by Helen Irving is more instructive.
In any case, that is irrelevant because the ruling was not related to the standing of the government, merely speaking to Ashby’s motives which were exposed in the SMS evidence as being selfish, partisan, duplicitous and unworthy of airing in a court room.
Today’s game will be to see if that is even mentioned in the zombie media. Yesterday, FXJ was leading its websites with a ludricrous beatup about AbbottAbbottAbbott’s leadership failure because its inhouse Nielsen poll had Libs leading 52-48 2PP.
The Labor backbench now knows Duckbum is a disaster even if the media eunuchs are still blocking their ears.
Therefore, even given our massive improvement in road safety, it is still more likely that an Australian will die in a car crash than an American is to be shot dead.
What in the flying Farquhar does that have to do with anything. Christ, Gab.
The de-institutionalisation of the 80s was a disaster which I saw in real time.
My suburb was near a big facility and over 12 months the numbers of shambling wrecks that turned up on our streets was incredible. After a while they ended up in prison.
They note the de-instiutionalisation was an example of the way “bi-partisanship” can mean government does not look at the policy in deep enough detail.
It is in this discussion that John Podheretz notes the facts about mental health I detailed above.
Further, he and Goldberg note Obama could make a real difference to the address the roots of the problem of gun violence by working to address the ongoing rise of single parent households. In particular returning to a meme from 2008 and addressing the around 70% of black children are raise in single parent families (i.e. no father)
…there is one area where Obama could be transformative and bipartisan while helping both the middle class and the poor. He could show some leadership on the state of the black family, and the American family in general.
Although it’s certainly true that the kids of some single parents can do very well, particularly if those solo parents have the financial or social resources to carry the load (just look at Obama’s own childhood), it is also the case that as a generalization, kids from single-parent homes do worse. In other words, it may be better to have one good parent than two bad parents, but it’s indisputably better to have two good parents.
monty – you really think Helen Irving supports Rare’s decision?
Yet you have the gall to say I’m twisting people’s words.
Where in that Irving piece does Rares have the power to usurp the authority of Parliament? His comments relating to Doane are against a tide of case law.
By Gab’s logic, the World Trade Centre terrorist attack involved the equivalent of a mere 10% blip upwards in the US national road toll – hardly something getting all worked up about to the extent the country did, hey?
Expect to see a lot like this over the slow news season.
She said the research was the first of its kind in Australia simply because it was difficult to get funding for it.
“A lot of funding bodies don’t support it, there’s a feeling that this type of research has the potential to form alarm in society,” she said.
She said her research was a “starting point.”
Dr Callan said the sample size was not large enough for the results to reach statistical significance.
It’s about BPA a toxic compound in large doses, water could be described the same way, that the test has now improved to the extent that trace amounts can now be detected. Pure scare campaign.
TL;DR send money more research needed.
Oh the headline is Plastic Poison Found in 84% of Pregnant Women.
By Gab’s logic, the World Trade Centre terrorist attack involved the equivalent of a mere 10% blip upwards in the US national road toll – hardly something getting all worked up about to the extent the country did, hey?
That is lazy thinking SoB. Pity you can’t have a discussion.
Rather then banging on about banning guns which will not solve the root problems, why not acknowlege the other critical parts of the puzzle:
1. Working to ensure people with Mental Health issues are identified and treated (and don’t get access to guns)
2. Working to ensure more children grow up in stable homes with both parents so the rate of alientation of adolescents drops (and more people can be around to pick up on children with mental health issues that develop in adolescence).
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
Hey, it’s odd that the love media haven’t mentioned Fast & Furious lately.
Readers might remember that Obama gave “assault weapons” by the truckload to Mexican drug gangs who then used them to kill several hundred men, women and children.
But ShitFer, seriously, I am of the school that it doesn’t justify – on a cost/benefit ratio, not an ethical analysis – a conventional military operation that’s going to cost thousands of lives. Other courses of action were probably more suitable.
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
I haven’t said that anywhere. You’re just making things up now. You’re very good at that.
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
That’s reality Monty. One day you may have to live in it. Just like this week 30 Australians will die in motor vehicle accidents. Now, I haven’t heard anyone call a halt to motor vehicle use while we sort this out.
And do you know what? I reckon with absolute certainty the week after next there’ll be another 30. What do you think we should do?
…the deaths of 20 primary school children 1000 asylum seekers are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
You beat me with that one, CL. I saw this article. There will be more asylum seeker deaths per attempt than US gun deaths per captia. But Monty and Shitfer don’t think we should do anything about them, just the guns.
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive? Hard to see how an appeal would stand up, unless the kid wins lotto.
And it’s always good to heed the analysis of a man named Mungo.
THE ALP bailout of Craig Thomson could be more than $150,000 – and federal minister Mark Arbib is understood to have brokered the deal between Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s office and NSW Labor.
Ms Gillard refused yesterday to reveal how much Labor had paid to stop Craig Thomson becoming bankrupt in the face of large legal bills.
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive? Hard to see how an appeal would stand up, unless the kid wins lotto.
The ALP gave Craig Thompson $200,000 as a personal gift in order to keep him from going bankrupt so he could stay in parliament. FWA, stacked with ALP members also engaged in a deliberate go-slow to drag out the matter until required then at the end failed to produce a document that could be used by anyone.
Overt conspiracy with partisan motive when Labor does it?
A-OK.
Some fantasy conjured in the mind of leftists about a staffer fairly suing his boss under the ALP’s own sexual harrasment laws?
EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!11!!ER@!
(Are you seriously reading Mungo now M0nty? Oh how the mighty have fallen).
That’s reality Monty. One day you may have to live in it. Just like this week 30 Australians will die in motor vehicle accidents. Now, I haven’t heard anyone call a halt to motor vehicle use while we sort this out.
Dying because you plowed your ute into a creek after sinking 20 cans at a twenty-first birthday party is a lot different to being shocked out of Quiet Time in the classroom by the invasion of an insane man, watching your teacher get a bullet in the head, herded up like sheep in an abbatoir and shot methodically.
His call for the shooting of anyone who supports the NRA includes Texas’ governor, both of its senators, all of its other statewide officials and most elected members of the state’s legislature. His public threat against so many elected officials could constitute a terroristic threat.
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
You’re not “mourning” anyone you disgusting childless shill.
Dying because you plowed your ute into a creek after sinking 20 cans at a twenty-first birthday party is a lot different to being shocked out of Quiet Time in the classroom by the invasion of an insane man, watching your teacher get a bullet in the head, herded up like sheep in an abbatoir and shot methodically.
And geting shot dead because you broke into someone’s house or tried to rob an old lady is no tragedy either, even though it may not always be completely right.
But you know what Monty, not everyone of the 30 who die on the roads each week is a white male who drinks beer and drives a ute. Quite a few of those 30 are confused beta-males like yourself who are doing the right thing, not drinking and driving carefully. I’m still waiting for your suggestion on what we should do to protect the 60 or so that’s going to die in the next fortnight?
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances
30 people shot dead is just a typical long weekend in Obama’s Chicago. Where guns are banned, just like you want them to be banned elsewhere.
It’s funny how criminals who are already willing to break the law by committing murder aren’t too fussed about breaking the lesser law of having an illegal gun.
You and SfB are like the Cat’s own reason-free zone.
Apart from calling for people to shoot NRA and their supporters, Democrats also display their racist asses:
Gov. Nikki Haley’s choice to succeed Sen. Jim DeMint as South Carolina’s junior senator could expect to face fire from the left, for the simple reason of their being a Republican. But being a black Republican appointed by the nation’s first female Indian-American governor has ratcheted up the assaults on Tim Scott beyond what almost anyone else could have faced.
R T.E Dixon wasted no time tossing out the n-word to attack the first black senator from the South since the 1880s.
Racist Cracker Congress Sending They Door Holding Nigga #TimScott to DC, Bring your good gloves to Hold those doors #TimScott
18 Dec 12
Jules Cator, self-described on Twitter as “Northeast Liberal, MBA, Starbucks, Volvo, Bleeds Blue – Loves Fairness and Equality & OBAMA 2012 & Don’t Drink TEA! (party)” tweeted a slam on several prominent black Republicans.
julescator @julescator
#TimScott is Michael Steele, Herman Cain, JC Watts, Ken Blackwell – they appear when GOP is n deep caca – have the lifespan of a fruit fly!
18 Dec 12
Other Democrats were quick to describe Scott as a “token” and “Uncle Ruckus,” both clearly racist attacks.
I’m still waiting for your suggestion on what we should do to protect the 60 or so that’s going to die in the next fortnight?
I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents.
Americans have not done all they can to prevent gun homicides. Their laissez-faire policies are a long way off the prudent measures brought in by Howard.
The ALP gave Craig Thompson $200,000 as a personal gift in order to keep him from going bankrupt so he could stay in parliament. FWA, stacked with ALP members also engaged in a deliberate go-slow to drag out the matter until required then at the end failed to produce a document that could be used by anyone.
Plus what Roxon did.
That’s not abuse of process, but what Ashby did was?
That’s the genius of Ashby’s move. Not ending Slipper’s career, but bowling good line and length.
Gillard and Roxon were forced to play shots and their defence and attack has been measured and found to be lacking water and left seriously wanting.
30 people shot dead is just a typical long weekend in Obama’s Chicago. Where guns are banned, just like you want them to be banned elsewhere.
So ban guns in all 50 states, and institute a gun buyback program to get them off the streets. Trucks full of guns sent off to get melted down, just like under Howard. It worked here.
It probably wouldn’t work there. But it’s the right thing to do.
Americans have not done all they can to prevent gun homicides. Their laissez-faire policies are a long way off the prudent measures brought in by Howard.
I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents
Americans want the benefits of gun ownership just like we want the benefits of motor vehicle use. If your working around the edges to put in safety checks while allowing people to exercise their freedom to obtain the benefits, you’re doing the right thing. If you’re going to deny them the benefits because it has another outcome that you personally prefer, you’re following a zero sum game that leads to the bottom. Empowering people works even though sometimes it has a minority of unwanted outcomes. Disempowering people leads to overall failure, if not immediately then definitely in time.
1. America is actually a safe place, despite the random, sensationalised shootings, and inner city violence.
2. American is becoming less and less violent.
3. Canada has more guns per person and more liberal laws and has less shootings, suicides and violent crime, generally (or used to around the time of the Columbine massacre).
4. UK has some of the worst gun crime stats in the world.
5. Switzerland shows that proliferation is not the issue.
6. Even with such massacres, the Australian crime and gun violence rates were dropping since the 1970s. In the 1950s we had very liberal gun laws and a death penalty – very low gun and violent crime save for suicides – which merely substitute for other methods when guns are restricted.
7. People who want to kill a score of children do not have a regard for the law anyway. Illegally obtaining a gun is the last of their concerns. Ditto for violent criminals in the Uk and NSW after tough handgun laws were passed.
It is not the Left that’s having an issue with “not having a conversation” here.
So you finally admit you are and always have been part of the left Steve.
Good for you! About time you stopped this faux conservative crap.
_________________________
A “conversation” means a 2 way dialog addressing all issues.
That Salon article repeats the sins you accuse the NRA of and does not discuss all the issues, rther demands the gun control agenda be approved OR ELSE you are not serious about having a dialog.
Where does it acknowledge that those who jumped quickly to blame Sarah Palin for the Loughner shooting were acting cynically and crassly?
the NRA has refused to be part of Presidential discussions about gun control after mass shootings……..It is not the Left that’s having an issue with “not having a conversation” here.
You don’t have these discussions straight after mass shootings. Just like you don’t have a court case for someone while the media and the public are baying for their blood. It won’t provide a reasoned and fair trial. But it is exactly what we’re seeing the media and their ilk do now. It’s exactly what Howard did in 1996.
“You don’t have these discussions straight after mass shootings.”
I agree with the sentiment, but the problem is there are so many mass shootings that the window for discussion isn’t big enough for such a controversial policy topic that by its nature will take a long time to get through.
* the NRA has a leadership that literally thinks every man and woman in America should be encouraged to be armed for their own safety.
* the NRA has refused to be part of Presidential discussions about gun control after mass shootings
So?
The NRA is neither a monolithic organization, nor does it get to vote in any election.
The NRA is simply made up of millions of ordinary American citizens – I’m a member, my sisters are members, my Mom & Dad are members – each of whom get exactly one vote in every election just as any other private individual does. It’s not some supernatural monster, and its only power comes from its citizen-members. It can’t force anyone to vote for this, that or the other. It’s just a group, like Greenpeace or African Americans for Obama.
You may recall that, last year, historian Gary Wills, formerly of National Review — who has long been fond of drawing comparisons between Obama and Lincoln — compared Obama’s speech in the wake of the Tucson massacre to . . . what else? . . . the Gettysburg address.
Where does it acknowledge that those who jumped quickly to blame Sarah Palin for the Loughner shooting were acting cynically and crassly?
Oh Token, they were just in “mourning” when frothing at the mouth they all blamed Sarah Palin and the Tea Party after a leftist nutjob shot a female democrat politician he had an obsession with.
Honest mistake, nothing to do with the left’s long history of co-opting and abusing tradegies for their own political gain.
We all know Krugman is a hack. I’ve always wanted to interview him on TV and patiently tease out “When should the US debt be paid back” and keep repeating it until he admits “Never.”
The first thing we need to ask is what a sustainable budget would look like. The answer is that in a growing economy, budgets don’t have to be balanced to be sustainable.
Keynesian doctrine be damned. Full speed spending forever.
…who has long been fond of drawing comparisons between Obama and Lincoln — compared Obama’s speech in the wake of the Tucson massacre to . . . what else? . . . the Gettysburg address.
It is a pity that 3 years on, with all the evidence about Loughner from when he gave that speech 3 years ago, Obama shows has not learned anything.
Seriously, Obama could do something about the attitude of black men toward their children, he is a hero to the black community, but he does not have the ticker to be the transformational leader on the issue.
What we are seeing here is the continuation of the paranoid attitude of the NRA (down under division) which throws up a whole smokescreen of reasons why it won’t countenance any better regulation of gun ownership, arguing alternatively that nothing will work, nothing is worth doing unless the results are total effectiveness, and mixing up issues no end (continually talking about career criminals and guns when the case in question raises legally purchased guns used by the mentally ill, eg).
It’s all driven by paranoia that the US could, even if it wanted to, disarm the “law-abiding” populace generally; and that “armed militia” are somehow relevant today as thwarting government tyranny.
CL and Mk50 glibly talk about “Leftism” as a mental illness.
It’s the nutty Right that has the real issues with mental health in the US and here.
I agree with the sentiment, but the problem is there are so many mass shootings that the window for discussion isn’t big enough for such a controversial policy topic that by its nature will take a long time to get through.
One, not really true. 9,100 Americans are murdered each year with guns. 99% don’t get the profile this one does (for completely understandable reasons).
Two, it’s the same with court cases. There will always be public opinion and media attention, but you have to work with it while still affording a fair and speedy trial. That’s completely not what’s happening with this issue. I suppose we couldn’t expect anything different, but it’s definitely not what’s happening.
“I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents. Americans have not done all they can to prevent gun homicides.”
What we are seeing here is the continuation of the paranoid attitude of the NRA
So you are saying Jared Loughner did not have serious mental health issues? The same for Colorado cinema killer?
Are you blaming it all on the NRA?
It is not the Left that’s having an issue with “not having a conversation” here.
Steve, it is good you admitted you are on the Left, but like so many who are with you on the irrational side of politics, you don’t have the comprehension skills necessary for the coversation you say you desperate want.
We all know Krugman is a hack. I’ve always wanted to interview him on TV and patiently tease out “When should the US debt be paid back” and keep repeating it until he admits “Never.”
Well we don’t have to wait.
The first thing we need to ask is what a sustainable budget would look like. The answer is that in a growing economy, budgets don’t have to be balanced to be sustainable.
Keynesian doctrine be damned. Full speed spending forever.
Thanks Paul.
Actually its probably worth a post of its own.
This makes the Democrat criticism of Reagan spending too much look really, really shallow.
What we are seeing here is the continuation of the paranoid attitude
ShitFer, we’re not paranoid. It is a simple fact that following the ideas of people like you will lead us to hell in a hand basket. It would be like having the policies of the Greens governing the country. It would be totally idealistic and it does not work. The failed European states – Greece, the problems in the UK and France – are due to putting ideas from people like you into place. The US continues to have an economy three times the size of the next one and leads the world in the western model precisely because it rejects ideas like yours. When it fails to do that it will also just become another failed western state.
If a national discussion on guns takes just six months, that exceeds the average gap between mass shootings in the US (62 in the last 30 years). So, prima facie, it’s true.
If a national discussion on guns takes just six months, that exceeds the average gap between mass shootings in the US (62 in the last 30 years). So, prima facie, it’s true.
Prima facie, yes, but on analysis no. They don’t get this profile because they don’t all have school children being murdered in wealthy suburbs like most of us live in. The last one I can quote is Columbine and I’m sure most people are like me. I know there’s 9100 gun murders, but that’s a different type of less emotional knowledge.
The same large chunk of the Right that hates the idea of any additional gun control at all is also on board with the “climate change is a socialist con job” meme.
As with this current shooting, the problem is that this line of paranoid thinking is not just stuffing up the lives of those who subscribe to it, it’s affecting other people.
As with this current shooting, the problem is that this line of paranoid thinking is not just stuffing up the lives of those who subscribe to it, it’s affecting other people.
It’s exactly the same here. I don’t want your crap ideas lowering my standard of living. It’s not like you don’t want to impose your ideas on other people. If anything, it’s my side that believes in leaving people alone to pursue their own happiness.
I think part of the key is to have devolution of power, so people can choose where they live away from people they’re less likely to want to be near. If we were US citizens you’d live in California or New York, and I’d live in Texas or New Hampshire.
Shorter JohnMc: America should not look at tighter gun control because “it’s awesome”.
You’re so bizarrely ignorant steve. You argue the typical dur,dur aussie leftist fantasy that the US is some anarchic wild west where you can just decide one day to walk into a shop and come out with an M16 and bazooka.
All US states and cities already have various degrees of gun restrictions. The shooter in this case was denied a gun under his states gun laws. The highest gun crime is in the states with the toughest gun laws.
None of this enters into the mind of the nutjob leftist who we see doesn’t actually care about careful gun regulation. No it’s not the gun laws you lot care about rather it’s the desire for the central government to take control of them, that’s what the real driving force is here. You’ll cannot stand that there’s an area of power in the US that can’t be ruled by decree – that a significant power remains with the state governments and the people who decide on what level of regulation they are comfortable with. That’s the real “problem”.
Finally in the reams of “the US must ban guns!111″ posts you don’t even acknowledge the fact that the right to own a gun is explicitly outlined in the US constitution and for the Federal Government to “overrule” that and not be struck down by this or future supreme courts or start a civil war would require an amendment.
Which with half the states in republican hands just isn’t ever going to happen.
The same large chunk of the Right that hates the idea of any additional gun control at all is also on board with the “climate change is a socialist con job” meme.
Every state in the US has gun control you weirdo nutjob.
The same large chunk of the Right that hates the idea of any additional gun control at all is also on board with the “climate change is a socialist con job” meme.
The fact that extremist leftwing dogma parrots like Dogshit and the hamster roam sites like this will be remembered as one of the signature characteristics of the era when an extremist leftwing government brought all of our fringe fruitcakes into the open because the fruitcakes in Canberra gave them the feeling of an official imprimatur.
It’d be funny if they weren’t ransacking the national treasury.
If a national discussion on guns takes just six months, that exceeds the average gap between mass shootings in the US (62 in the last 30 years). So, prima facie, it’s true.
If its so critical to have the discussion about guns, before the facts are settled, maybe its time to ahve the discussion about mental illness as well.
Five-Point Action Plan for President Obama to Reduce Violence by the Mentally Ill
…If Obama is serious about wanting to do something, the steps above would be the best first step. True, the mental-health industry may throw a fit as they find themselves obligated to serve the most seriously ill, but it’s the right thing to do. Anything else could be deadly.
Here is what states should do.
You can see this is a dual strategy that targets the federal government & states.
Thank goodness someone was paying attention to the issues raised by Fort Hood (why is that shooting “forgotten”), Arizona, Colorado, Michigan & now Conneticut.
Seriously, is there anyone in the US that gives a sh*t as to what non-resident, non-voting, non-taxpaying Australians think about how they manage their affairs?
The faux outpouring of grief in the Australian media is sickening – it’s putrid moral posturing with an eye on selling more fish wrappers.
the case in question raises legally purchased guns used by the mentally ill
Fuckwit. Mentally ill people cannot legally purchase guns.
In the current case, the shooter tried to purchase weapons legally but was knocked back. So he stole them instead.
So we’re dealing with an unlicensed mentally ill youth, with stolen guns, carrying them illegally (double – both because CT doesn’t give carry permits to under-21s and because they were stolen), illegally breaking into a school, illegally taking them into a designated gun-free zone, and illegally murdering people with them.
You don’t react to tragedies caused by people like that by disarming law-abiding citizens like my baby sister, who has never broken a law in her life.
As with this current shooting, the problem is that this line of paranoid thinking is not just stuffing up the lives of those who subscribe to it, it’s affecting other people.
The person who thinks that using electricty is going to end the world is calling other people “paranoid”.
I think that’s an oversimplification. The reason they don’t have gun laws is because they’ve never needed them. The reason they’ve never needed them is due to a number of other very critical factors they’ve always got right since the state was created………………..I’d love to discuss them but I’ve really got to stop blogging!!!
But seriously, given that bugger all of the posters here live in the USA and that we don’t have a Constitutional right to bear them… emotionally arguing the whole guns thing one way or the other is kinda silly. Especially when specific scenarios are floated or bigots start making hysterical generalisations (yeah, I’m looking at you there numbers).
The whole thing is turning (mostly) into a fracas between two camps; those who roll their eyes at Americans and those who see guns conferring talismanic powers. In Australia, we just don’t have a dog in the guns fight. There are plenty of other relevant issues that are closer to home such as mental health.
sfb, since you never responded yesterday; do you think it appropriate that husbands and boyfriends are counted in the same category as the local green grocer or doorman in sexual assault/ rape stats, for example?
Rape is rape but SFB – the self-appointed spokeswoman for women everywhere – thinks some rapes are worse than others. Ah, the lefty mindset is a wonder to behold.
The differing gun laws in 52 states in the USA are all the NRA’s doing and the US hasn’t been having a “conversation” about gun regulation for thirty years now.
Very interesting article Token. I wonder if our laws are similar?
I’m not sure the school shooter would have been stopped by these laws, it would probably have taken a ‘complaint’ by his Mum to have action started under those criteria.
SAMHSA is the epicenter of what is wrong with the American mental-health system. SAMHSA actively encourages states to engage in mission creep and send the most seriously ill to the end of the line. They provide massive funding to organizations that want to prevent mentally ill individuals from receiving treatment. They have nothing positive to show for their efforts in spite of a massive bureaucracy that meets and meets and meets and never accomplishes anything.
His call for the shooting of anyone who supports the NRA includes Texas’ governor, both of its senators, all of its other statewide officials and most elected members of the state’s legislature. His public threat against so many elected officials could constitute a terroristic threat.
This reflects the pervasive violent mindset that is the problem in the US. The gun issue is simply symptomatic of it.
The guy reminds me of the man who visited the doctor saying there was a buzzing in his ears. The doctor gave him some medicine and he returned a week later.
“So are you better now?” asks the doctor.
“Yes thanks”, says the man. “The buzzing is a lot louder now!”
Why would someone even try to argue for gun control?
At this stage it’s because they’re authoritarian statists who don’t like that state governments determine their own gun regulations in line with the wishes of their electorates. Instead they simply want Obama to take power by force – reject the wishes of 100 million people and decree guns “regulated” exactly in line with their rejected-at-the-ballot-box demands and in direct violation of the constitution.
In doing so they self-fulfill the prophesy (while mocking it) that had the right to own a gun set as the second most important right in the US constitution in the first place.
The US is a lot less violent a place than Australia.
They certainly don’t have drunken lunatics glassing each other everywhere and outside of black neighbourhoods you’ve got more chance of dying from a bee sting than a gun shot.
You should save up and take a holiday there, Viva. You’ll be amazed at the reality versus the media myth.
SFB, you’ve got nothing but abuse in your arsenal.
—————–
About time too:
MAGISTRATE Pat O’Shane failed to act impartially and treated police prosecutors in a “discourteous, pre-emptory and high-handed” way, a Sydney hearing has been told.
Ms O’Shane, 71, faced the conduct division of the NSW Judicial Commission on Tuesday in relation to complaints made against her by NSW Attorney-General Greg Smith and police Chief Superintendent Tony Trichter.
Counsel assisting the commission, Jeremy Gormly SC, said the tribunal would hear evidence Ms O’Shane acted in a partial manner in four cases between 2007 and 2012.
Ms O’Shane could be referred to NSW parliament for the consideration of her removal or to the chief magistrate, depending on the findings of the conduct division.
On 29 November 1999 Magistrate Pat O’Shane discharged Kanaan from standing trial in relation to the White City shooting. Ms O’Shane called the two police officers “stupid, reckless and foolhardy” and said that “the circumstances in which constables Patrech and Fotopoulos became involved with…Kanaan and his cohorts…indicated police harassment of youth” and there was “not a shred of evidence which gives rise to any factual or reasonable cause on the part of these police to chase these young fellows on this particular night.” The Director of Public Prosecutions was not impressed and ordered that Kanaan stand trial on the basis of an ex-officio indictment
But the consequences for her actions stand in stark contrast to the consequences for the two police officers she upbraided.
Constable Patrech was shot and wounded by Kanaan and is still troubled by his injuries. Constable Fotopoulos was later driven off the force for no good reason, and driven almost to despair.
And O’Shane? She continues to be treated by the legal establishment as the cat with 99 lives.
The left genuinely think there’s no guns in Australia anymore which is yet another example of the fantasy world they create then argue within.
“Gun laws work – just look at us in Australia! Perfect! No guns allowed here in Australia!”
“There’s more guns than ever”.
“OMG we need more gun laws!”
The guy reminds me of the man who visited the doctor saying there was a buzzing in his ears. The doctor gave him some medicine and he returned a week later.
“So are you better now?” asks the doctor.
“Yes thanks”, says the man. “The buzzing is a lot louder now!”
So Steve, tell me again what the causal relationship between CO2 and temperature is. Is that the one where there has been an exponential rise in one and no rise in the other?
Fuckwit.
I have to say that there is a lot of bullshit being written about the so-called culture of violence in the US right now, mostly from people who have never lived there. Well I have and I can tell you that I never felt the slightest bit unsafe in the major cities I lived in or visited.
I spent three and a half years living in Houston where, horror of all horrors, concealed carry is legal! I am no NRA sympathiser, but neither am I a gun control nut. The overwhelming majority of people who own guns in the US are responsible and wouldn’t burst into a school and kill a bunch of people.
I had some pre-conceived ideas about the US and guns before I went there, but let me tell you that when I left I didn’t have anywhere near the worries I did before. Overall, the country is very, very safe. Like any place, there are some neighbourhoods that you wouldn’t walk around in at night, but they exist in every place. Hell, I’d be more likely to venture out in the downtown area of most American cities than I would in Perth late at night.
The very worst time to have a debate about guns is right after one of these incidents. Emotions run far too high on both sides. I’m all for a discussion to happen, but how about people being left to bury their loved ones first eh?
And others are right, why in Australia do we care about this? We are not America.
Without wishing to engage in the gun “debate,” (because I am not partial to having my masculinity/sexuality/penis ownership questioned), and without wishing to bring down torrents of analogies between the Newtown victims and foetii/zygotes (only because they were living, sentient bearers of many people’s love and hopes) can I just ask the Cat’s gun enthusiasts/advocates – quite seriously – what they suggest as to how we can ensure that a fruit-loop is not able to walk around a primary school with a combat weapon snuffing out kids?
IT has a point: there are some things that can’t be stopped. Who would have thought to stop Timothy McVeigh? Someone who is sufficiently motivated to kill a bunch of people will find a way to do it. All we can do is to try and identify those at highest risk of doing something before they do it. Even that is flawed though.
and without wishing to bring down torrents of analogies between the Newtown victims and foetii/zygotes (only because they were living, sentient bearers of many people’s love and hopes)
A near term baby isn’t a “living, sentient bearer of peoples loves and hopes”?
But the left can fix everything. Already, they have worked out how to control the climate. It just requires a well-funded leftwing academic grantocracy. They guarantee results by the 22nd century.
The Scrooge Left: The Global Mail axes 20% of its staff a week before christmas.
Crikey can reveal 20% of the existing staff base — two foreign correspondents, two Sydney-based reporters and two back office workers — have been asked to leave the long-form website following an “independent review”. The review was conducted by new board member Brooke Twyford, who worked alongside CEO Jane Nicholls at Time Inc in New York and recently returned to Australia.
A Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance spokesperson confirmed the redundancies this morning, saying the union had written to TGM and was seeking an urgent meeting.
A near term baby isn’t a “living, sentient bearer of peoples loves and hopes”?
What depravity is this?
What I meant, Twostix – hoping, and seemingly failing, to keep the a-word out of it – is that they could talk back to you; that having been born, they were KIDS.
Maybe there is nothing we can do. No one wants to admit that, but it’s most likely true.
These things can’t be stopped, but, at least in the US where a greater proportion of people are skilled in their use, having staff allowed to be armed could cut the consequences by an order of magnitude.
The overwhelming majority of people who own guns in the US are responsible and wouldn’t burst into a school and kill a bunch of people.
Well, d’uh.
The overwhelming majority also have nothing to fear from better gun registration laws, better background checking, and restrictions on things like high capacity magazines and limitations on the type of military style weaponry available to the person on the street.
The fact that most people don’t drink drive doesn’t stop countries regulating in detail the consequences of drink driving, even though everyone knows it will still happen to some degree.
James in Melbourne, if you want to look at the effects, effectiveness and unwanted causes of using laws to stop mass killings in civil society, both with guns and otherwise, I recommend you make a study of the Israeli experience. It’s covers every conceivable situation you’ve though of and some more. Even have a look Israeli High Court rulings regarding civil liberties and the use of barricades and searches.
Ah I knew the Global Mail was a loser, they changed the format to a normal site, not the side scrolling codswallop it had before.
There are 78,631 sites with a better three-month global Alexa traffic rank than Theglobalmail.org. Visitors to it spend about 44 seconds on each pageview
… Approximately 54% of visits to the site are bounces (one pageview only).
Punishing drivers for drink driving — after they break the law — is not analogous to regulating what type of car people who haven’t broken the law are allowed to have.
WTF sdog? Since when has the perverted liar ever made sense? Every time that he comes here and makes some stupid assertion or links to some far left whacko website, someone tears him a new one and proves him to be a nonsensical nutjob zealot.
Restricting auto and semi-auto weapons: I don’t know that it would make the slightest bit of difference
Auto weapons are almost impossible to get anyway. It’s hard to see how they could be much more “restricted”:
Weapons capable of fully automatic fire, including assault rifles, have been regulated heavily in the United States since the National Firearms Act of 1934. Taking possession of such weapons requires paying a $200 federal transfer tax and submitting to an FBI background check, including ten-print fingerprints.
sdog: different drivers are regulated differently as to what levels of alcohol they can have in their system, and most people follow the regulations.
If caught, they are prevented from using any car that they have for a period.
It is a potentially fatal matter which is heavily regulated, and how it has been regulated has been altered over time in the interests of decreasing fatalities.
The analogy to regulation of gun ownership is not perfect, but it has many aspects that are comparable.
Let’s face it: this whole “making the perfect the enemy of the good” is just a big smokescreen against rational discussion of how to reduce risk in an area where NRA types are paranoid about government.
A few days ago someone intimated that a prominent media personality may be clouded in their perspective by attending games of footy with the first lady bloke. Bolt spills the beans on who it is, quelle surprise!
IT, you have demonstrated inability to understand causation, so what’s the point of trying to explain to you the ways in which your simple minded “facts” are wrong?
It wasn’t IT who asked you to justify your “causation” pervert.
I repeat,
So Steve, tell me again what the causal relationship between CO2 and temperature is. Is that the one where there has been an exponential rise in one and no rise in the other?
Fuckwit.
what they suggest as to how we can ensure that a fruit-loop is not able to walk around a primary school with a combat weapon snuffing out kids?
Arm a few teachers. 10% would be more than sufficient.
I know we like to think of teachers as a bunch of soft left pinkos in skirts, but in amongst them are the conservative sleepers who are hunters, sporting shooters or ex-military that could be authorized to carry in a trice.
Good article at Slate about the encouragement of paranoia by the NRA, and their long standing and transparent strategy of “this would be an inappropriate time to talk about gun control” which enables them never to have an appropriate time to talk about it.
Outside, under the purple sky
Diamonds in the snow
They sparkle
Our hearts were singing…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 12:02 am
ha!
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 12:04 am
Woo Hoo
Dianne
15 Dec 12 at 12:06 am
Crisis deepens for atheist state schools, Labor Party:
South Australian school sex abuse scandal widens.
Seems the only ‘seal of the confessional’ being upheld to the detriment of children is the one being run by the Labor Party – the only political party in the world that has been led (state and territory) by no fewer than three men convicted of sexually assaulting children.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 12:08 am
Oh, foolish pride
If I can’t see the tears …
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 12:12 am
Fifth!
I blame SfB; I had to hit the HAZMAT showers after the last open thread.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 12:12 am
Sixth, even. Because, Jooooooos. ;-P
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 12:13 am
Paul Kelly baseball bats Gillard for constantly lying.
It’s an addiction alright. Worse than heroin.
Addiction to over-promising in Julia Gillard’s ‘government for all seasons’.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 12:18 am
Rabzie, I have found another member for the CCC… We need to organise some sort of poker night…
Skuter
15 Dec 12 at 12:18 am
Hints, please Squire!
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 12:20 am
So I replied to my Anglo Indian gay nephew, you may not be homophobic, but that doesnt mean you are not a white, racist, sexist, misogynistic, ageist, Mohamed hater. Heh he.
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 12:22 am
Back in the olden days people like gillard were referred to as “snake oil salesmen”.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 12:23 am
Please explain M. sdog. What have we done now?
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 12:24 am
I woulda been fifth, Jannie, except Rabz & I both posted at 12:12, and OF COURSE his went first. Because, JOOOOOOOOS.
IOW: j/k ;-P
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 12:27 am
Rabz has switched gravatar to the RAF roundels to commemorate bombs on target over sfb?
Cold-Hands
15 Dec 12 at 12:28 am
Gab, back in the olden days snake oil, like Goanna oil, was relatively useful stuff. I think what Ms Gillard is selling is more like just snakes, from garden variety to king brown.
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
Rabzie, I have found another member for the CCC
Catallaxy Communist Collective?
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
sdog, I can tell you are a scientist, or at least better than me at arithmetic and stuff. But otherwise I am non the wizer. But I do sympathise, because its better to come forth than to come fifth,
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 12:33 am
Close, but not.
Canberra Catallaxy Collective…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 12:33 am
I was pretty close. I mean ‘Canberra’ and ‘Communist’ are often interchangeable!
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 12:36 am
Jannie, the Jooos are a euphemism for Tony Abbott.
Abu Chowdah
15 Dec 12 at 12:36 am
All I can say is a non-progressive gent who would fit in nicely and would like a game of poker…
Skuter
15 Dec 12 at 12:38 am
Is the CCC an exclusive boys’ club or can females join as well?
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 12:39 am
I saw a headline on the ABC newsticker “IPCC report leaked by skeptics”.
One guy leaked it.
Harold
15 Dec 12 at 12:48 am
Um, thanks Abu. I must try to get with it. What is the reference, besides the obvious, er, ME suggestion?
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 12:49 am
Peter van Onselen: Gillard is finished.
No way back from these figures – just ask Howard.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 1:19 am
I have posted some dodgy music in the past. But this I will defend.
Just Another bloody Lawyer
15 Dec 12 at 1:21 am
Gab, no restrictions on membership except a deranged ‘progressive’ outlook on life…
Skuter
15 Dec 12 at 1:24 am
Christopher Pearson on the malodorous, failed Gillard era:
Labor living on borrowed time.
And the scripted, failed gender war invented by Scottish idiot, John McTernan:
Where the failed Gillard stands, historically:
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 1:25 am
Just Another Bloody Lawyer, yes I agree. good clip, good neighbours. Lou Reed. the real John Cale. Wine and stuff.
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 1:36 am
more clips please
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 1:37 am
Nope, have been marveling at how much she and her cabal get away with every day. Then again if Canberra, Fauxfacts and the ABC presstitutes did their job instead of being the fawning gillard sycophants they are then things may have been different by now. And what are they about to get as a reward for all their worship and spin doctoring? Restrictions of the free press. (ABC exempted, of course).
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 1:38 am
CL, I cant bear to read PvO. He is a bit like ABC lite or Janey has Moved. Polls may not be shite, but do not help you if you are ahead. I think its best to allow the whole ALPBC complex to remain complacent in their conquest of all information in the world. Let the eat lotus leaves, until.
Jannie
15 Dec 12 at 1:45 am
Susan Rice – the lowlife who deliberately lied about the death of America’s ambassador to Libya – says she’s withdrawing her name from consideration for the position of Secretary of State. That’s because she’d be exposed for what she is – and her master would be exposed for what he is – at any nomination hearing.
CNN wins a rare spin/brown-nosing double award for its ‘report’:
Susan Rice’s Selfless Withdrawal From Consideration For Secretary Of State.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 2:08 am
MSNBC plays the race card, of course:
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/a-saddened-susan-rice-drops-out-of-running-for-secretary-of-state/
Message to Mitchell:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/jon_stewart_the_race_card_is_maxed_out/
Ivan Denisovich
15 Dec 12 at 2:39 am
Nick Bryant’s profile on Julia’s Scottish git in The Monthly has him describing Gillard’s position as irretrievable. McTernan’s loser reputation intact!
CC
15 Dec 12 at 4:18 am
Pearson is right. I remember the latter days of the Whitlam government, and Gillard’s mob of incompetents are worse precisely because they add an extra ingredient of vicious malice. I used to be indifferent to Gillard as a person, but I now loathe her since her misogyny rant. Apparently she hates normal Australian men. Nice to know.
I sincerely hope and pray she is turfed out in the New Year.
Julian O'Dea
15 Dec 12 at 5:46 am
Skuter and Rabz, I would like to reclaim my CCC foundation membership at a poker night.
Work has been he’ll, but I think I am now over the worst of it.
John Comnenus
15 Dec 12 at 5:50 am
$260 billion and counting after Swan raised the limit from $250b to $300b, compared with Costello’s zero.
The left is trying to hide its fiscal recklessness in government so therefore it must lie. Constantly.
The government debt binge – not mining (or the rest of the economy, which is in recession) – is primarily responsible for the massive overvaluation of the AUD, which is killing Australian manufacturing, which is sacking its workforce at an almost unprecedented rate. You don’t read about it because the MSM is barracking for the government. Unbelievable.
Borrowings alone are now nearly 20% more than annual government revenue in 06-07 but, after the spending binge of the past five years, only two-thirds of current government outlays (up 72%+). The country will be paying for this for a generation. The most reckless government ever.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 6:26 am
Another school shooting in the US – this time in Connecticut.
There’s a strange blend of collective denial and pure lunacy central to what is fondly called the American dream.
Gun wankers (and their Glibertariam supporters) have innocent blood on their hands.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 6:44 am
After trying to sell us the Latham-Gillard led Labor cohort in 2004 and failing miserably, the craven media stepped back and for a while had to find something acceptable to say about Howard. He’s a clever politician was all they’d offer. Never mind the brilliant budgetary situation, with genuine surpluses, or the fully paid down debt, future fund covering previously unfunded future liabilities, and so on.
In 2007 the voters faced a perfect confection of union funded scare campaign on Work Choices (back when there were jobs, remember?) an “it’s time” element pushed by the media, and a raft of dodgy promises about being essentially conservative, but caring, from Rudd.
Howard and the Libs also must take some blame for being slow learners on the reinvention and generational change front. Howard offered them the opportunity and they failed, but he failed to give us the obviously best candidate in Costello. Costello was feared by the media and the Labor Party because he’s the best performer in recent history. They had to knobble him with pathetic things like “nobody likes him, and that smirk”, but again, too many leadership candidates in the coalition ranks was part of the succession problem. An earlier transition would have won at least one more term, and possibly done more damage to the twin foundering entities, the union movement and the ALP.
Instead, we have had the KevinShow, all pizzaz, a bit of bad language, but essentially dysfunctional, while in the background the IR system went down the toilet and the zombie union movement was walking abroad once more. Then the Kev show was axed in favour of an even worse horror show. When will it be acknowledged that we have a democracy damaged by the corrupt media? The next election may be some sort of clean out, but until the media issue is disinfected the pattern will repeat. Every coalition government will suffer the bad press while they try to rebuild the finances and are obliged to be mean in the process. When they get the ship righted they’ll be subjecte to ongoing sniping and another “it’s time for a change” campaign. How often do we have to do this, repeating the mistakes of the past because the media – the nation’s teacher union – are doing the people a vary bad disservice?
Blogstrop
15 Dec 12 at 6:58 am
Jump – re your question from old fred about putting young people on motorbikes to learn about vulnerability – I had a motorbike at 18 and loved it, but being young I felt invulnerable anyway. Once did Sydney uni to Neutral Bay late at night, traffic lights all green, hardly any traffic unlike now, in a magical flying ten minutes.
These days I see young guys doing the most stupid weaving lane changes at a speed greater than the rest of the traffic, threading the needle at a rate which makes them hard to see coming. They obviously still feel invulnerable to be doing that in the big meat mincer that is Sydney peak hour.
Blogstrop
15 Dec 12 at 7:07 am
The zombies are desperately unhappy that their attempt to get Mal Brough and therefore damage AbbottAbbottAbbott isn’t going to work:
Meanwhile, not a line in the zombie media about the fact that everyone in the ALP caucus now knows the Lying Slapper is unelectable. Peter Harcher’s column this morning was an ode to his mother. LOL.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 7:41 am
John, “collective” would be redundant wouldn’t it? To include “Cattalaxy” is utterly moronic! I mean oxymoronic.
Robert, that’s just silly. Typical leftist obsession that it’s always someone else’s fault!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 8:15 am
Numbers, check out the number of gun massacre dead in Finland (population 5.4 million) since 1 Jan 2007 compared with the number in America (population 311 million) over the same period. I haven’t done the maths, but my impression is that, per head of population, the US might be a tad safer.
Des Deskperson
15 Dec 12 at 8:21 am
@ Blogstrop
Its more impressive giving the climate that the conservative party must work with. i.e enemies in the public service, education, mass media, ABC etc
Whats your solution?
Adam Diver
15 Dec 12 at 8:43 am
Yawn. How predictable.
And yet over a thousand dead through Greens-ALP policy and somehow it’s no responsibility of theirs.
Numbers: just another mindless unthinking bigoted left-wing racist.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 8:45 am
He doesn’t have to “win” any seats. Lyne and New England will go to the Coalition automatically as a backlash against the lemon-sucker and dumbo. The seat of Fisher will revert to it’s proper representation when Brough thrashes that chronic taxi passenger, Mussel-Man. The Parliament is notionally Coalition, so Gillard has to win back seats to hold on.
That says it all.
Don’t worry about factions or policies or faceless string-pullers.
As the election approaches, an increasing number of ALP MPs on the wrong side of the electoral pendulum will ask if it is worth sacrificing their careers in the altar of faux feminism invented by Gillard and McTurdman for the cheer-squad of ageing hags like Summers.
Leigh Lowe
15 Dec 12 at 8:49 am
No matter how things change … things don’t change
Lao Tzu
Aussieute
15 Dec 12 at 8:55 am
The Lying Slapper is bloody-minded enough to call a snap election if the unrest in caucus looks likely to lead to a leadership spill. The dissident backbenchers will be forced to march in lockstep to their doom. “Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven”.
Cold-Hands
15 Dec 12 at 8:56 am
Hey Mk50, now the topic has turned to guns again, how are you going with that Martini Henry import?
I’ve got a PTA in on a 1902 Lee Enfield, sporterized, which I plan on restoring to original condition (one day
).
It has a good No1 barrel with the old windage adjustable sight, so that may be the basis of an early No1 later down the track.
I’ve also got a No4 in 7.62 which will become a repro L42 eventually.
Eddystone
15 Dec 12 at 9:01 am
Sure, Chilly Mits, she could do that, and Labor would lose Government but what are the odds she would lose her own seat in the rout?
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 9:06 am
It is a clear demonstration of tribalism triumphing over honour that the few adults in the parliamentary ALP like Crean, Ferguson etc do not cross the floor and end this sorry episode in Australian politics. Better to go down with a foundering ship that become an object for labor hate.
Entropy
15 Dec 12 at 9:14 am
Also today: “A knife-wielding man has slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.”
I repeat: “A knife-wielding man has slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.”
Fuckwit.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 9:15 am
Why do you guys respond to obvious trolling?
Entropy
15 Dec 12 at 9:17 am
Pray for the parents of ALL these innocent victims of senseless violene, and if you can’t do that, shut the fuck up with your disgusting point-scoring game.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 9:17 am
Might have to say it one more time sPup, Numbers is a little slow on the uptake. Remember the left rely on repetition to form their views.
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 9:21 am
Ummm, entertainment? That’s just me.
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 9:23 am
Entertaining like punching a brick wall, or entertaining like persecuting a dumb dog?
Entropy
15 Dec 12 at 9:33 am
How many of the Chinese kids are dead, sdog?
Answer: none.
How many of the American kids are dead?
What would be the difference between the two situations? I don’t have to spell it out.
Your pathetic and sickening attempt at handwave is a massive fail that you still could not resist attempting.
As an increasing number of furious American commentators are saying, “just shut up” is politicising the issue.
As David Frum wrote:
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 9:34 am
There’s not much entertainment,
And the critics are severe.
Leonard Cohen – ‘Waiting for the Miracle’.
Septimus
15 Dec 12 at 9:35 am
Sadly, almost no chance as based on the results of the last poll, Lalor needs a swing of over 20% to change hands. Given the composition of the seat, I can’t see it happening. But the snap poll would be to avoid the humiliation of being deposed by her own party; losing at the polls means she can remain a Labor party martyr and heroine to Emily’s List. When she loses at the polls, she’s more likely to do an Anna Bligh and resign her seat rather than serve on someone’s backbench.
Cold-Hands
15 Dec 12 at 9:36 am
I wouldn’t do either of those. More like fencing.
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 9:37 am
In this case, because the excitement and gloating from the Left over the American tragedy, while they ignore a similar tragedy just hours beforehand because China-bashing isn’t as cooooool or because knife crime doesn’t suit their narrative, is making me sick. I just felt like calling it out.
These innocent children deserve better than to have y’all laughing and clapping in glee as you dance on their still-warm bodies.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 9:37 am
They don’t come any more rusted-on than Victorian Labor voters and Lalor is literally Victorian rust belt country. Gillard will only be prised out when she leads Labor over the cliff that they have been heading towards ever since the unions installed her in 2010.
She should then die of shame in the inevitable by-election and join Mother Russia as a patron saint of Emilys List. Just like Kirner, she will be unemployable from that date.
H B Bear
15 Dec 12 at 9:37 am
Courtesy Bolt:
Even the IPCC has now dumped most of the ‘scariest warmie campfire stories’!
Poor warmies, even their Holy Book is turning against them….
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 9:38 am
SfB:
Law-abiding citizens with registered weapons are not the problem here. You guys are firing at the wrong target. Again.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 9:41 am
For those of you with a legitimate excuse to watch play school Justine Clarke is on at the moment. Teach her to cook a chop and she’s our Nigella I reckon.
Pickles
15 Dec 12 at 9:47 am
I see the battle against that imperialist war of aggression over the peace and freedom loving peoples of the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam continues with whichever tools are available.
Meanwhile, a little something from the Bookmark Archives.
lotocoti
15 Dec 12 at 9:47 am
She just licked a wooden spoon.
Pickles
15 Dec 12 at 9:53 am
Eddystone, still waiting on the PTAs. It’s pre Xmas so I don’t mind the wait. Was planning on January for them anyway.
Man-oh-man – you just might have a Boer War rifle!
So sporterised but did they remove and or replace the fore-sight? or was it an iron sight sporterisation? As you know, in 1899 clearing rods were abolished in British Service and the MK 1 * Lee Enfield Rifle without clearing rod hole in the fore end nose cap was approved on 7th August 1899.
The (very few) Boer war rifles I have seen in .303 calibre Long Lee Enfield MK 1* have been very crisply stamped on the right side of the strap ‘BSA Co Kings Crown ER’ , ‘LE I*’ and the date. Is any of the wood work original and if so is the stock stamped with the ‘BSA’ roundel? Imperial units tended to follow standard practise of stamping the brass butt plate with a unit designator next to the War Dept arrow. This was especially true of mounted rifle units. Now, these are now often very faint or only visible with specialist imaging (the small arms curators, excellent folks, at the AWM annex at Mitchell can advise on this) Does it have a shrouded bolt and is the magazine chain in place?
That sounds solid, do the numbers match?
Cool!
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 9:56 am
Mk50 – Just another ignorant local apologist for the NRA, the West’s own Taliban.
Both organisations are based on fundamentalist principles, are anachronistic in the 21st century, and quite comfortable with mass slaughter.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 10:08 am
Thanks CH, that’s interesting. Tragic but interesting.
One tries not to indulge in the schadenfreude but Gillard losing her seat…
That would be sweet!
Humph, she has no shame! It’s just not in her makeup. Does not compute!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 10:10 am
Dimwit: the problem is telling who will be law abiding with a weapon and who won’t. Getting them to tick a box saying “I promise not to become a madman who will use this assault rifle and high capacity magazine for a massacre” doesn’t work. People’s mental health is not a static thing.
The overwhelming majority of shooting sprees is done by people with legally purchased weapons.
So what does work?
People at this blog take it as an article of faith that Howard’s legal framework stopped the boats. (I think the story is more complicated than people allow for, but the refuge advocates counterclaims go too far in the other direction. So, basically, I think Howard’s response did pretty much work, even though the public was prepared to let Rudd come in and change the system.)
Do you know what other thing stopped as a result of a Howard legal framework?
Hint: the last one happened in 1996.
Now, I know the US is not going to try to go for the Australian laws. But the refusal of gun advocates in your country to consider any restriction at all on the type of weapon and accessories that make random massacres capable of maximum kill rate is just sickeningly stupid and a triumph of blind ideology over common friggin’ sense.
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 10:11 am
Infidel Tiger
15 Dec 12 at 10:19 am
I got myself a windage backsight for my #1 MkIII* and fitted it in place of the standard. Used it for target shooting a while. Never did get around to fitting the old windage AND elevation-correcting sight I bought online, that had the ramp set up for MkII/MkVI round-nose ammo before I sold the gun, but I kept all the bits.
perturbed
15 Dec 12 at 10:19 am
I’m afraid I can’t be as charitable.
Those supporting the availability of semi-autos and handguns are quite simply raving lunatics. Common sense has nothing to do with it.
Having been threatened by a gun-toting father in 1989 when I was a principal changed my attitude on this. I’ll never forget how helpless I felt – it was my job to protect the disabled kids at my school. Fortunately he calmed down and went home.
The sanctity of an elementary school and the innocence of childhood apparently are not worth protecting in the interests of a powerful and cynical gun lobby.
Anyone here brave enough to speak up for the rights of those 20 kids and the teachers who vainly tried to protect them?
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 10:22 am
If only you’d had a gun, you could have done something.
Infidel Tiger
15 Dec 12 at 10:23 am
Literally, an experience at the ready for every event.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 10:24 am
Yes. William Burroughs, the drug addled bloke who shot and killed his missus while playing games with a gun.
What a spokesman for the anti gun control movement.
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 10:24 am
I hadn’t thought of that!
As far as I know, the barrel is a replacement, the fore end wood was cut back
and it’s been used as a cheaper shooter on a farm.
Skennerton’s book should give me a bit more info.
Perturbed, if you have any bits and pieces, I’m looking for a nut for the rear site protector screw, also the nut for the bayonet lug rear screw, both for a Lithgow No1 Mklll*
Eddystone
15 Dec 12 at 10:32 am
Assault weapons are banned in Connecticut.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 10:33 am
The most telling statistic of all in relation to international gun ownership is this one – Table 2: Homicides and suicides committed with a gun, in the 18 ICS countries per head of population – from GUN OWNERSHIP, SUICIDE AND HOMICIDE:
AN INTERNATIONAL PERSPECTIVE
Martin Killias
Homicide per 1 million Suicide per 1 million – USA – 44.6 per million. This is twice the next (Northern Ireland – 21.3) and no other ICS country comes anywhere near it, with the next highest being Italy at 13.1. Australia is 6.6, one seventh of the rate in the USA.
To quote from the conclusion to the article –
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 10:34 am
IT,
Surrender?
Woolfe
15 Dec 12 at 10:34 am
Same old BS from the ignorant bigots – don’t they just love to use these incidents to enforce their agenda?
Here’s an alternative view from Germeny:
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 10:36 am
Guns are banned in Chicago, the gun violence capital of the USA. So, yeah. No.
Guns are also banned in all government schools and on most university campuses.
Murder, of course, is already illegal.
And most gun crime is committed by unlicensed criminals & with illegally-possessed guns.
Yet you reckon more laws, targeting lawful, licensed gun owners who have broken no laws, are the answer here?
Fuckwit.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 10:38 am
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools. That’s known as the Somalian model. Works a treat for them.
There are all kinds of lunacies, but that takes the cake.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 10:45 am
Conflating suicide and murder is ridiculously dishonest. As is blaming law-abiding citizens who are licensed and own legal weapons with criminals who are unlicensed and are in possession of illegally-obtained weapons.
You might as well ban all citizens from obtaining drivers licenses and owning cars because sometimes people deliberately use them to kill themselves, or because sometimes unlicensed hoons steal cars, drive impaired and kill innocent people.
“After a
shooting spreevehicular manslaughter, they always want to take thegunscars away from the people who didn’t do it.”sdog
15 Dec 12 at 10:46 am
LOL.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 10:47 am
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 10:49 am
Guns are already illegal in schools, and murder is of course also illegal.
So what is your solution?
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 10:49 am
The evidence says you’re 110% wrong.
You’re just a bigot.
As you’ve been busted for before.
Busted number, busted.
.
15 Dec 12 at 10:50 am
Ban all guns of course because that will stop anyone from obtaining a gun illegally.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 10:51 am
Gun wankers (and their Glibertariam supporters) have innocent blood on their hands.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 10:52 am
As usual, the gun loving nuts the only answer is more guns, more guns.
The hand waving over why nothing about gun control works or could possibly work continues. Anything and everything is clutched at, no matter how irrelevant or simplistic it is on closer examination, just so you can avoid the issue and have your guns for ideological reasons.
I am just thankful that public opinion on this matter in Australia is a million miles from the pathetic views of the gun libertarians of Catallaxy.
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 10:54 am
Ah, the Chicago Solution!
Chicago Is Deadliest Global City. “Chicago likes to compare itself to other world cities, so Ward Room thought it would find out how we rank in violence. It turns out no one can top us. Among what are considered Alpha world cities, Chicago has the highest murder rate — higher even than the Third World metropolises of Mexico City and Sao Paolo.”
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 10:56 am
Actually that’s a complete misrepresentation. Banning guns will not stop someone who wants to shoot people from obtaining a gun. It only stops law abiding citizens from being able to choose if they want to protect themselves.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 10:57 am
The sanctity of an elementary school and the innocence of childhood apparently are not worth protecting in the interests of a powerful and cynical gun lobby.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 10:57 am
Numbers:
And yet this has worked a treat in Israel since the massacre at the Netiv Meir elementary school in ’74. Never been another one as paleosimian terrorists like the DFLP members who performed this massacre will not attack a ‘hardened target’.
At the Mercaz HaRav massacre, the terrorist was killed by an armed student, saving many lives.
At Beslan and other schools, other paleosimian terrorist scum again succeeded as none of the targets had any ability to deter the atatcks. They were all defenceless and as the paleosimian terrorists there noted in captured planning docs, that was why they picked the target.
So once again, the poor ignorant leftard prefers ‘emotion and feelings’ rather than verifiable fact.
Funny, that.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 10:59 am
I’m not sure whether this comment emanates from breathtaking ignorance or stark denial.
Excuse my stating the bleeding obvious, but motor vehicles are designed to move people around, not to kill them. Firearms, on the other hand are killing machines – that’s what they’re designed to do. I’m surprised you can’t tell the difference.
The simple relationship between the prevalence of weapons in a community and the rate of deaths from firearms exists. This holds as a universal constant worldwide. There may be an excuse for it in countries where firearms are in the community because of recent conflict (Afghanistan Iraq, etc) but the last war fought in the USA was in 1865.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 10:59 am
I was up till 2am watching the first season of a fantastic TV show called “Hit &Miss”.
Chloë Sevigny plays a pre-operation transexual hit
manwho learns she fathered a son 11 years before with her now dead ex-wife.Brilliant!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 11:00 am
Not ideological; practical. For instance, were my baby sister alone in the house and fronted by a tradesman with similar rape fantasies as you indulged yourself in here last night, she would have some help persuading said pervert to leave. Failing that, she could shoot him in the face.
Of course, now that you’ve revealed your fantasies to us, I understand why the thought of allowing an otherwise-helpless female to be so empowered would be more than a little discomforting to you.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 11:03 am
Number’s solution is obvious, sdog. Let the kids get massacred and then blame the people who did not do it while working hard to make sure it happens again.
After all, his view is probably that the little buggers should have been aborted anyway. he’s a leftard so he’d doubtless make that preferably just before term.
CL at 1052 absolutely nailed it (love your work, CL!)
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:03 am
I understand the gunman’s mother was teacher in the classroom and he strolled in and shot her there I think and the 20 kids
you’d have to wonder if anything could have prevented that kind of craziness.
perhaps full-on hi tech armed security guards for schools really is the answer these days
candy
15 Dec 12 at 11:05 am
Which accounts for all of the blood on the streets of Switzerland, of course.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 11:05 am
Fascists like Numbers and Dogshit just hate the US Constitution, from which US gun laws emanate, because it is based on distrust of government power.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 11:06 am
Numbers:
Your fellow Socialists beg to differ!
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:07 am
Barack Obama – who believes late term babies may licitly be stabbed in the head with scissors, then disembowelled and decapitated; and who believes babies born alive may licitly be thrown in hospital rubbish bins – “wiped away tears.”
Proud border control denialist, Julia “1000+” Gillard: “our hearts too are broken.”
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 11:08 am
Yes. For anyone truly concerned about not having the blood of innocents on their hands, that would have left a mark.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 11:08 am
And you are ignoring my point.
This is typical – gun loving nuts rely continually on a ridiculous slippery slope argument against any control on any guns or magazines at all to “law abiding citizens”.
Hence, when a massacre involves assault rifle with a high capacity magazine, you’ll instinctively say “there’s no point in trying to restrict their sale. Not even the magazine.”
Anyway, as I say, your ideologically commitment to the maximisation of guns in the US renders you an eccentric nut by most Australian’s views, and rightly so.
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:10 am
Knives are designed to cut, Robert. Sometimes people use them to cut people. Americans are permitted to use guns for defence Robert. Some people use them for Offence. I’m surprised you can’t see the flaw in your defence!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 11:10 am
There’ll always be Eric Holder and his peeps eager to help you get strapped.
lotocoti
15 Dec 12 at 11:12 am
Israeli teachers all carry semi automatics? Their union must be strong…
m0nty
15 Dec 12 at 11:13 am
Um, his not having an assault rifle in the first place?
steve from brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:13 am
Anyway, I see that it’s just going to be the usual suspects dragging out the usual red herrings which I and others here have comprehensively gutted and filleted more than once in the past.
I’ll leave you to it.
sdog
15 Dec 12 at 11:14 am
How about, instead of banning guns, placing severe regulatory restriction on ownership of bullets: each gun owner could only hold, say no more than 5 bullets?
That way such mass-shootings would be avoided (?)
roger
15 Dec 12 at 11:14 am
CL, I had the same thought about the snivelling pro-abort Obama.
Julian O'Dea
15 Dec 12 at 11:15 am
Deal with these verifiable facts -
1. There is a clear and direct correlation between the number of firearms in a community and the rate of gun homicides.
2. These massacres occur at a regular rate in the USA. No other western country has the rate and frequency of massacres evident in the USA. A brief (but not entirely comprehensive list) –
December 2012
26 killed when a gunman went to an elementary school in Connecticut. 20 were children between the ages of 5 and 10. 6 were teachers.
December 2008
A gunman dressed as Santa Claus kills nine guests at a Christmas Eve party before taking his own life in Covina, a suburb of Los Angeles in California.
December 2007
A gunman kills eight people and wounds five at a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, before killing himself.
April 2007
Cho Seung-hui kills 32 people and wounds many more at the Virginia Tech college in Blacksburg, Virginia, in two separate incidents on the same day. Cho had been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder.
March 2005
Jeff Weise, a student at Red Lake high school in Minnesota kills five students, a teacher, a security guard, and then himself. Before school, he had shot dead his grandfather and grandfather’s companion.
April 1999
Two students at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado, kill 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.
October 1991
George Hennard drives his pickup truck to Luby’s cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, then shoots dead 23 people before killing himself.
August 1986
A former employee enters a post office in Oklahoma and shoots dead 14 workers before killing himself.
July 1984
Twenty-one people are killed when a 41-year-old man opens fire at a McDonald’s restaurant in San Diego. He is shot by police.
February 1983
Three men shoot dead 14 people in the Wah Mee club in Seattle’s Chinatown.
August 1966
Charles Whitman, a former marine, holes up in the clock tower at the University of Texas campus in Austin, where he had studied. He kills 15 people and wounds another 32 before being shot dead by police.
3. The USA has the most effective gun lobby in the world.
4. The USA has had 4 presidents assassinated by gunfire, and 7 unsuccessful attempts. On those 4 occasions, the democratic will of the American people has been subverted by a lone lunatic given enormous and disproportionate power by the easy availability of a firearm.
Emotions and feelings have a place, but these verifiable facts are out there. To deny them on the basis of words in a constitution designed to deal with the insecurities of a frontier society is quite simply ludicrous.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 11:17 am
Assault weapons are banned in Connecticut.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 11:18 am
“Um, his not having an assault rifle in the first place?”
Don’t know, perhaps deranged individual will find a way to get the firearms? he killed his mother …
just wondering if school security is an answer as sure as eggs these school massacres will keep happening
candy
15 Dec 12 at 11:19 am
Teachers like Robert, redolent of resentment and victimhood themselves being in a position to influence disaffected, powerless and vulnerable youth has more to do with these tragedies than the second amendment.
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 11:20 am
Yeah, Sdog.
The usual ideologues are trotting out their usual argument that “Because of what happened in a foreign country with a different culture and different laws on the other side of the world all guns in Australia must be banned immediately as that accords with my socialist ideology.”
Empty, shallow little
creaturesvermin, aren’t they?Always willing to exploit the act of a madman to further their own ideological aims.
And, being devout practising racists, absolutely willing to give Juliar a pass for killing 1000+ people at sea. They were only ‘little brown people’ in their view, so why should they count against their Juliar?
Racist scum, the lot of them, and their own words prove it.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:20 am
The murderer in Conn was carrying two pistols, not an assault rifle. He lived in Conn which is surrounded by states with highly restrictive gun laws as it is itself. At least garner some facts before mouthing off.
dover_beach
15 Dec 12 at 11:21 am
So if this lunatic had shot 3050 more kids he would have equalled the average number of children aborted each day in America?
Infidel Tiger
15 Dec 12 at 11:21 am
Dover I’ve read he had a Glock, a Sig Sauer and a semi-automatic rifle.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 11:26 am
Hey, that racist Numbers can google!
What you show is that these guys are pikers compared to Juliar.
Why, by your expert googlin’, youve showed that in 46 years mad people in the USA have only murdered 183 people!
Cripes, Numbers, Juliar’s better than that! She’s killed 1000+ in just five years! Give her a free hand for 46 years and that’d probably be over 10,000.
No wonder you are upset at the yanks. Not a patch on your Juliar, and all HER victims are non-white.
You must be so proud.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 11:27 am
Only a gun wanker could come up with the suggestion that arming teachers is the solution to gun massacres in schools.
So the first thing a mass murderer does is kill the teachers. If having guns is so protective against the postals then why is the USA with all those guns the home of postals? Does not compute. The problem is not about guns it is about culture. The USA loves it guns, that is a bigger problem than owning guns. Guns are tools, get over it. The USA is the most heavily psychiatrically medicated country in the world. There is something sick about that, what with serotonin and opioid babies, now unequivocal evidence that antidepressants are very bad for developing babies, a rash of opioid prescribed related deaths, i mllion children on antipsychotics, something is seriously fucked up there.
Dead Soul
15 Dec 12 at 11:28 am
@IT
As a practising Catholic I’m no fan of abortion, but I would have thought Glibertarians would have issues with the state dictating to a woman her right to give birth.
References to abortion and refugees drowning are simply irrelevant in the gun debate.
It’s fascinating how quickly the gun wankers move to other issues when confronted with the irrefutable facts.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 11:32 am
Note to self: Cease subscribing to the Nihon Bijutsu Token Hozon Kyokai.
Their existence is inextricably linked to killing people.
lotocoti
15 Dec 12 at 11:47 am
test
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 11:58 am
Oops. That didn’t stop this fellow now, did it, numbers?
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 12:11 pm
Dover I’ve read he had a Glock, a Sig Sauer and a semi-automatic rifle.
Gab, CBS just referenced the Glock and Sig Sauer on the 6pm news.
dover_beach
15 Dec 12 at 12:11 pm
@Mk50
You keep changing the subject. Nothing in the firearm debate has anything to do with abortion or refugees, nor for that matter, with Julia Gillard.
Deal with the substance of the issue – the almost unbelievable situation where a troglodyte lobby holds the American community in thrall and destroys the right to security for its children in their schools, seen as places of sanctuary in more rational societies.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 12:15 pm
1735099 – the stats on mass murder in the US are actually worse than that. I lived in the US for a while a decade or so ago and there were mass (>3 deaths) gun shootings about every 1-2 months. But they’re not reported or only very lightly reported here in Australia. Probably for the sad fact that they’re so common. And its only the very large massacres that any longer have any real impact on the public in the US for the same reason.
I used to support increased gun control in the US, but now don’t think it would work for a few reasons:
- Too many otherwise law abiding people would simply refuse to comply – its just too culturally ingrained
- legally owned guns are a significant source of guns for people who are unable to own guns. And no law that could possibly pass in the US would be strict enough
- the US borders are a lot more porous than in a country like Australia. Democrat or Republican governments they are simply unable to control them effectively so there will be a significant supply of illegally imported weapons.
- There are too many legal and illegal weapons already in the country. Effects of gun control will literally take 50-100 years. And no politician is willing to think that far into the future (or be patient enough to wait for results for that long).
But we can use the US as an example of where Australia should not head. Learn the lesson that some decisions are irreversible and keep our existing gun restrictions if not tighten them further. And in general, resist the gun culture mentality spreading through the population.
Chris
15 Dec 12 at 12:19 pm
Numbers really has given up intellectual discussion. I don’t see any point engaging with him.
It is ad hom turned up to 11, all the time.
Token
15 Dec 12 at 12:21 pm
The gun violence that occurs in Democrat run cities like Chicago which have strong and enforced bans on weapons proves this issue has a lot more nuance than the simple boiled down messages the lefties try on.
Token
15 Dec 12 at 12:28 pm
The US is a uniquely violent country. I have no conclusion as to the reason, but it is.
This is a handy reference.
(yes I know he has an agenda but it is an almost balanced summary of facts)
DaveF
15 Dec 12 at 12:41 pm
It pays to check the link that Numbers posted.
That Martin Killias paper was from 1993.
Since then, there has been a huge increase in firearm ownership, and a huge drop in violent crime.
Killias himself co-authored a 2001 CJC paper that found no correlation between suicide and homicide rates and guns in the home.
The correlation between guns and homicide in the 1993 paper is actually quite weak. Exclusion of the US from the list of countries removes the correlation.
Using the same countries as the 1993 paper, others have found a stronger correlation between the homicide suicide rate and car ownership than with gun ownership.
Eddystone
15 Dec 12 at 12:44 pm
If Gangnam Style was banned one life would have been saved.
It’s for the
childrenmiddle aged men.DaveF
15 Dec 12 at 12:51 pm
lotocoti:
I’ve been to Bizen (industrial hellhole) I’m lucky to have survived by the looks of it.
DaveF
15 Dec 12 at 1:00 pm
‘No other western country has the rate and frequency of massacres evident in the USA’
I wonder. As I noted above, Finland – wonderful, social democratic caring, sharing Scandinavian Finland – has a bad recent record of multiple massacres.
Taking Numbers’s figures, at least 75 people have been killed in US gun massacres in the last five years. I agree that that’s an understatement, given that 12 were also killed at a recent Batman premier and six were killed in an assasination attempy on a Colorado Senator, so lets be, err, generous and say 100 slain.
Finland had 22 dead in gun massacres over the same period. Since the US’s population is 57 times that of Finland, to match Finland’s recent ‘record’, the US would have to have had around 5,700 gun massacre deaths.
I don’t know whether the Finnish problem is long term or whether it’s just a recent blip and, as other posters have pointed out, the issue of gun culture and gun control in the US is rather too complex for facile slogans from either side. I just get annoyed by sub-cerebral, fifth hand anti-Americanisms, whatever the problem or issue, particularly when similar problems in ‘progressive’ countries are ignored.
Des Deskperson
15 Dec 12 at 1:16 pm
Deal with the substance of the issue – the almost unbelievable situation where a troglodyte lobby holds the American community in thrall and destroys the right to security for its children in their schools, seen as places of sanctuary in more rational societies.
I wonder if numbers sees China in his list of more rational societies.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 1:20 pm
Googling “somalian model” gives no reference to arming teachers at school. The link you provide makes no mention of “teacher”. It is difficult to accept your arguments when your references do not support your point of view.
Cold-Hands
15 Dec 12 at 1:37 pm
LOL.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 1:46 pm
Nice Gravitar Rabz. Are you a Who fan or like British aircraft roundels?
Here are some others. Interestingly Latvia and Finland had a swastika roundel that was first used in 1918 so it predates the nazis.
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 1:50 pm
Yes.
As crazy as he his himself, I think Tom Cruise is right about psychiatry.
No other country on earth has so embraced the quackery of psychiatry – along with its leftist dogma absolving everyone of anything approximating responsibility. There is also a culture of ‘entitlement,’ subjective morality and the worshipping of famous and monied imbeciles simply because they are famous and monied.
Don’t look at the guns. Look at the culture. A culture wherein a man is re-eclected president who passionately believes that babies born alive can licitly be killed.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 2:01 pm
Chris @12:19… You sum it up pretty much perfectly for mine.
Not too sure about the “tighten them further”, but otherwise spot on.
mct
15 Dec 12 at 2:01 pm
So nobody has been shot in Australia since John Howard’s gun ‘buyback’?
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 2:19 pm
It’s touching to see the Left upset about a mass-shooting when in fact most Leftists supported and still support Che Guevera, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, and Pol Pot, all mass-shooting specialists. For instance, I’m sure Fran Barlow will be over at John Kwiggin’s calling for gun control, but when you ask her opinion on Lenin’s Hanging Order she goes all coy.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 2:23 pm
China has lots of shootings too, even now, but they are all done by the government so the Left is fine with that.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 2:24 pm
Venezuela’s homocide rate ten times higher than US, according to UN. Cuba’s is higher too.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 2:28 pm
Will
15 Dec 12 at 2:30 pm
The problem with the gun debate is that it falls into the category of risk issues that people evaluate emotionally rather than rationally. America’s whole murder rate – not just school massacre rate – is lower per capita than our motor vehicle accident deaths, quite a bit lower than our suicide rate and on par with any activities that kill 1400 or so Australians per year (I wonder how close cycling gets?).
This is from the most diverse nation on the planet, with almost certainly the greatest wealth disparity with (I believe but I don’t have a source) a quarter of the worlds firearms held in private hands. With some of the most lenient gun laws and a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to own guns. In the middle of a financial crisis. With some of the worlds most porous borders and maybe the worlds largest illegal drug industry.
And yet, with all that, people are still going to point to US shootings as the greatest moral travesty of our time, and consider it more concerning than all the other issues that kill people on a daily basis.
Until we can get past this level of inept decision making, based on emotional ‘data’, we will never be able to craft better policy or move beyond where we currently are at.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 2:35 pm
John, even on the subject of homocide, there is a popular fallacy that killing 20 people in one location is worse than killing 20 people in different locations. Of course, a massacre like this will have dramatic effects on people psychologically, but there is no moral difference between this and 20 individual homocides (there are a lot more than that every day in the US).
Still, there definitely do need to be personality checks on potential gun owners, and we should generally be much more “judgmental” on matters of mental health where the community is at potential risk.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 2:42 pm
Numbers, I am not a libertarian, at least not on all issues. In fact, I am probably closer to you on the guns issue than you imagine. I just found the sight of Obama crying about dead children deeply ironic, given his rabid support for partial-birth abortion.
Julian O'Dea
15 Dec 12 at 2:44 pm
I suspect that the spud peeler has never had to protect disabled children from a gun toting parent. How on earth is that story relevant to the issue. Numbers your simply full of shot.
Steal any nice bread today Stevieliar QC?
Tiny Dancer
15 Dec 12 at 2:49 pm
“shit”
Tiny Dancer
15 Dec 12 at 2:50 pm
Data is data. It’s not and never can be emotional.
If kids were being shot in schools and universities in Australia at the rate they are in the USA (129 since 1966) we’d be seeking a solution.
Instead, we see bleatings about freedom, reference to countries where totalitarianism holds sway, and red herrings about abortion.
FCOL, the USA is supposed to be a democracy. It’s instructive that one lobby, the NRA, can hold that democracy hostage. That’s an especially sinister form of totalitarianism.
This is, or should be, above partisan politics. The fact that it’s bound up in it is a large part of the problem.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 2:50 pm
Numbers:
If I was, that’s a standard lefty tactic, so go call the waaahmbulance, numbers. However, I am not, I am using an approach based on moral behaviours like I normally do.
No wonder you did not recognise the approach.
Nice cry of pain. I’d be pleased to hear why you think there’s a special moral dimension in your “mind” where massacres conducted by madmen in the USA count, and far larger slaughters caused directly by the policy of a politician you support… somehow does not count.
The only differences are that:
1. Juliar has killed far more people
2. You luuurve Juliar
3. Her victims were all non-white.
What that indicates is that you are a bog-standard lefty: amoral, stupid, partisan, a bigot and a racist.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 2:55 pm
Doesn’t cut it numbers. If you accept that a 0% unwanted death rate is not realistic – i.e. there is always some risk in being alive – then a murder rate substantially lower than most suicide rates in rich, first-world countries, then you have to accept it’s in line with how most of the civilised world values life. To evaluate it otherwise is not rational, but emotional.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 2:56 pm
@Mk50
1. Bullshit. People have drowned trying to escape tyranny. She’s killed nobody. You could equally say a succession of coalition politicians killed over 500 Australians in Vietnam.
2. I don’t know Julia Gillard – never met her. I don’t vote Labor.
3. Her “victims” don’t exist. The people who drowned (including the 353 who died on John Howard’s watch) came from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds. What they had in common was their refugee status.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:02 pm
See the problem here is that you assumed you had a thought. If you can muster enough grey matter, consider that a libertarian might think a baby’s right to live supercedes a women’s right to avoid birth. Its completely consistent unlike
Adam Diver
15 Dec 12 at 3:03 pm
Bullshit. People have drowned trying to escape tyranny. She’s killed nobody.
You’re an idiot. Then the US shooting deaths are the responsibility of the murderer, not the gun policy.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:05 pm
I presume, however, those 22 kids are still in the land of the living.
Somehow this statement reminds me of the Labor government always conveniently asserting it is too soon to talk about what or who was to blame for asylum seeker drownings. So Ok, let’s not talk about the wider issue here, let’s just pray – until the next time and the time after that. I am horrified and so sorry for the parents but Americans have made their choice about this.
Viva
15 Dec 12 at 3:06 pm
I presume, however, those 22 kids are still in the land of the living.
Yep, that time they were but the previous Chinese school massacres, over the previous years, they certainly weren’t.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:08 pm
Simply bullshit. Compare like with like. The firearm homicide rate in the USA is five times higher than this country.
So you’re OK with elementary school kids being shot in class? Don’t go there….too emotional….
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:09 pm
People have drowned trying to escape Indonesia, which is not a tyranny anymore. They were drawn there by the promise of permanent residence in Australia after slipping in through the back door. The laws that enabled them to do this were passed by Labor in 2008, leading to a massive spike in illegal migration and in deaths.
None of the people who drowned on Siev-X had refugee “status” by definition. That’s why they were trying to come here through irregular channels.
Arguments like this show once again the absolute futility in discussing anything with Leftists. There is no point in any dialogue because they are not interested in reality. Leftism is a mental illness that should be locked up and medicated, not debated with.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:09 pm
@ Adam Driver
How do you go with a child’s right to safely attend grade school?
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:10 pm
Simply extraordinary. There was nothing in any comment above that gave itself to this interpretation in the slightest. You just made it up.
Are there any doubters remaining who still believe that free speech should apply to Leftists? If there are, just read the ravings and distortions of this man and ask yourself what purpose is served by allowing him the right to free expression.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:11 pm
This is an assertion. Despite Abbott et al repeating it over and over again, it is not fact.
Get back to a rational discussion about the link between lax gun laws, the quantity of firearms available, and the statistics.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:15 pm
The firearm homicide rate in the USA is five times higher than this country.
Who gives a shit about the firearm homicide rate, it’s the overall homicide rate that matters. You can claim that that it’s around 1.9 per 100,00 for many first world countries with restrictive gun laws and around 6 per 100,000 for the USA (and I’ve been very supporting of your position with those figures, that’s the best data you’re going to get anywhere), but that is the total strength of your argument.
And I would say the myriad of factors that I’ve listed above with the USA completely explain that disparity.
If Australia had the level of diversity of the USA, with the financial disparity, were hit in the financial crisis as hard as they were and weren’t by ourselves on the other side of the world, Australian society would look like downtown Afghanistan during a fire fight.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:16 pm
Spoken like a true Glibertarian. “Free speech” is OK so long as I agree with the opinions expressed. Everything else should be censored.
Hilarious.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:17 pm
Cold-hands, numbers often seasons his ad homs with a Somali link. If you disagree with him in any shape or form, you support them, clearly.
Derp
15 Dec 12 at 3:17 pm
Hey Viva and numbers, I wanted to add that there’s a reason Chinese society doesn’t have the same level of gun crime as the USA (at least if you take out government executions!). Can you guess what it might be?
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:18 pm
i guess the gunman will turned out to be another druggie, seems to be the common theme.
candy
15 Dec 12 at 3:19 pm
Perhaps the parents of the kids killed at Sandy Hook “give a shit” as you so eloquently put it.
So there are too many factors – so forget it. That’s a cowardly copout, and characteristic of the response of legislators too frightened to take on the NRA.
So we’ll be hearing about many more of these events into the future…..
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:21 pm
you are such a wanker
Tiny Dancer
15 Dec 12 at 3:21 pm
Perhaps the parents of the kids killed at Sandy Hook “give a shit” as you so eloquently put it.
You know, I don’t think parents would feel different if their children were killed by any other means.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:22 pm
Numbers:
Sri Lanka is a tyranny? Pakistan is a tyranny? The only reason those people died was because Juliar changed our border protection laws and re-opened the people smuggling business Howard destroyed by making it unprofitable.
here policy, her responsibility.
Does not matter, you support her policy, and this is a give-away that you vote green. it’s a greenalp ‘government’ responsible for this. What I do not see is you calling for a return to the full suite of Howard’s policies which might stop teh killing.
Again, evidence of your racism – provided it’s only ‘little brown people’ dying, you just do not care.
And what they have in common is that they paid $8000-$15000 per passage to people smugglers whose business model Juliar and Bobby brown rebuilt after Howard destroyed it. BTW, the numbers DO NOT include those of SIEV X. And they are actually quite a lot higher than people think. There are boats that have gone missing which are not in that count.
Illegal immigrants are not refugees. If they WERE refugees, they would keep their documents to prove that status, yes? They do not. They destroy their documents, a practise typical of illegal immigrants relocating for economic reasons. As teh Sri lankan government has told that cretin Julaire repeatedly, many, many LTTE terrorists are using the Australian escape route. Is, for example, a known LTTE torturer a ‘refugee’ to you, numbers? The Sri Lankans seized a boatful recent, and found nearly half were LTTE. And that SOB they have since hanged for his crimes. But to you, he’d be a refugee!
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 3:23 pm
So you’re OK with elementary school kids being shot in class?
No one is OK with this and yet Conn restrictive gun laws did nothing to keep them safe.
dover_beach
15 Dec 12 at 3:23 pm
Sandyhook Connecticut is a long way away from us in Oz so I guess many of us can afford to make all kinds of rationalist assertions which tend to minimise the significance of what has happened.
But imagine if you will, a Port Arthur or Hoddle Street happening here every other year or smaller versions happening every six months or so. Imagine the prospect of these events happening year after year stretching into the future and then formulate arguments that make such a prospect appear acceptable even bearable to yourself and many others. Don’t think it can’t be done – it’s done with great alacrity and supported by many impressive statistics in America. Just turn on your TV now and watch and learn.
Viva
15 Dec 12 at 3:23 pm
No, from 2001 to 2007, the highest number of boat arrivals in any year was 6. The mode was 1. In 2010 there were 134 arrivals. So boat arrivals increased by a factor of 27 in the first three years of the Rudd/Gillard government. Obviously, the global “displaced persons” count did not increase by a factor of 27. In fact there were about 40 million “displaced persons” in 2001, and roughly the same number at the end of the decade.
It is hilarious that you are citing a difference of a factor of four to condemn US gun laws, but ignoring a factor of 27 to run interference for Gillard’s asylum cock-up.
They call him Numbers, but he don’t do math.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:24 pm
Anyhoo, time for a swim.
It’s been amusing watching our latest racist blaming the people who did not do anything wrong for the appalling acts of a madman in the USA, but the day is too nice to spend more of it dealing with racist internet vermin like Numbers.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 3:25 pm
So there are too many factors – so forget it. That’s a cowardly copout, and characteristic of the response of legislators too frightened to take on the NRA.
You and your ilk completely miss the point. You want to focus on gun ownership but the murder rate doesn’t go down with your suggest policy changes. That means the logic behind your policy changes is wrong, and you are simply pursuing an emotional agenda that won’t have any tangible benefits.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:25 pm
Reuters reports: Texas governor seeks law banning late-term abortions.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 3:28 pm
But imagine if you will, a Port Arthur or Hoddle Street happening here every other year or smaller versions happening every six months or so.
Well, there’s about 15 times more people in the USA so you could assume there would be 15 times more of these events, all things being equal.
6 months or so x 15 = 7.5 years or so.
Yes, I haven’t got data handy but I think we pretty much have a tragedy like that every 7.5 years or so, and we should expect that to continue into the future even though we’ll do everything we can to stop it.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:28 pm
“Illegal immigrants” – a term invented in the USA to describe Latinos. It has no relevance in this country and is a nonsense description used by xenophobes to demonize refugees.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:31 pm
gillard is sending back Sri Lankans who arrived here illegally. She is a xenophobe.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 3:32 pm
Kevin Rudd:
Julia Gillard:
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/gym_weeper/
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 3:34 pm
You can’t tell the difference between causation and inference.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:34 pm
An aside from rational debate numbers, I cannot ever look at a blog from an idiot who uses his service number as the title. It’s like the moron who gets his unit on his numberplate, or his corps motto tattooed on his shoulder. It just screams ‘fuckwit’.
Throw in the fact you probably served less than 24 months at best, 40 years ago, and have lived in normal Australian society ever since holding down normal jobs and families, just proves you are a screamer of the highest order.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:35 pm
Perhaps he’s just so very proud to have served in Viet Nam, John.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 3:37 pm
The only difference between Labor and Coalition on this issue is the level of hypocrisy.
It’s a close run thing.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:37 pm
Nope, it is used to describe people who do not have visas. So you got that wrong.
No, none of the people on the boats are refugees (you still haven’t worked out the definition of that word, have you?) unless they prove otherwise, and as it is in fact against the law to arrive in Australia without a valid visa, according to the last three Prime Ministers.
Who should I believe? A crank who doesn’t understand math, or successive Prime Ministers from both parties?
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:37 pm
Numbers is getting very frantic now with his postings.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 3:38 pm
The killer’s mother had an assault weapon plus two glock hand guns in her house. The guns were bought legally and the assault rifle must have been purchased before their banning in the state. Were gun owners in Connecticut asked to hand in their military grade weapons after they became illegal? Obviously not. I assume that one little state’s restrictive gun laws wouldn’t stop someone from visiting a gun supermarket over the state border to get the type of weapon they are after.
You have to ask yourself why this woman, a teacher, felt the need to arm herself with an assault weapon as if the Taliban were camped outside her door. Two hand guns apparently were not enough to guarantee her peace of mind.
Viva
15 Dec 12 at 3:40 pm
Perhaps he’s just so very proud to have served in Viet Nam, John.
Those guys who just did their job when asked tend to be quiet, steely types who simply get on with life. The sort of person you would describe as ‘salt of the earth’.
Y’know, in number’s town there is quite a reasonable sized Vietnam Vet community (considering it was 40 years ago), who tend to know each other. They don’t seem to know numbers for some reason. And I’m guessing they wouldn’t like him. Make of that what you will.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:40 pm
@Gab + John Mc
Totally predictable. You run out of ideas (or never had any to start with) so resort to ad hom.
Only have one family, and I don’t recall “holding them down”. Sounds you have a peculiarly eccentric idea of parenting.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:41 pm
You have to ask yourself why this woman, a teacher, felt the need to arm herself with an assault weapon as if the Taliban were camped outside her door.
Maybe she felt a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state, and the first part of achieving that would be to keep and bear arms.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:43 pm
You big hypocritical Mary! You have absolutely nothing to back up your ridiculous assertion about boat arrivals, and the data is completely against you. Even the Labor Party has given up trying to defend this ludicrous position. I guess someone had to stay behind in the Führerbunker.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:44 pm
Probably because none of them were in my unit. The last one died a few years ago. You are displaying a very poor understanding of the returned community. They relate to common membership of a unit, because shared experiences came from that.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:45 pm
LOL that’s rich coming from you seeing as how you’ve been ad homming since this morning.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 3:45 pm
You’re clutching at straws, numbers.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:45 pm
Viva, CT isn’t little and all of New England would have restrictive gun laws.
dover_beach
15 Dec 12 at 3:47 pm
It is. Only in the USA it’s a bit more sophisticated and is called the NRA. See post 10.08am.
1735099
15 Dec 12 at 3:48 pm
Actually, lots of New England has extremely relaxed gun laws. CT is more like New York than New England, for obvious reasons.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:49 pm
Now Numbers is comparing the NRA to a terrorist organisation that throws acid in the face of young women.
Once again, my point about Leftism is made for me.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 3:53 pm
I wonder if Somalia has an NRA?
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 3:54 pm
A pox on both their houses!
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 3:55 pm
Yes, J Mc, I just noticed Maine is quite relaxed. New Hampshire even more so.
dover_beach
15 Dec 12 at 4:00 pm
’1735099′
Is this Metro, back to haunt us?
Alex Pundit
15 Dec 12 at 4:14 pm
No, but it’s understandable that you would mistake one angry, punchy, flatulent tosser for another.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 4:26 pm
Specialist website on school shooters, by an academic in that area.
http://www.schoolshooters.info/PL/Home.html
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 4:41 pm
What the fool is saying is if you disagree with him then you’re as bad as the taliban, as bad as the shooter who killed 27 innocents today. He is saying that if you disagree with introducing legislation that will totally disarm law abiding citizens then you may as well have pulled the trigger today. This numbers person is not capable of reasoned thought.
Gab
15 Dec 12 at 4:43 pm
I’m a Who fan and an ex-modernist.
BTW – This thread has been completely ruined by that staggeringly stupid, self-obsessed, syphilitic, knob gobbling narcissistic bedwetting fat boomer fairy the fucking spud peeler.
Abysmal.
FFS, Sinc, ban the stupid C*#@!
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 4:47 pm
Then you must ask yourself just how well-regulated this militia-in-waiting really is when guns and assault weapons are left lying around militia households for any mentally disturbed person to happen upon on their way out the door intending to create mayhem. Even in Israel, where the need for a citizen militia is based on a real threat rather than paranoid fantasies and romantic notions of some future heroic resistance, guns are issued by the state only to settlers on the West Bank who must sign for them and store them securely in allocated locations when not being carried for self defence.
Viva
15 Dec 12 at 4:57 pm
Forgetting partisanship for a minute numbers, you really are a spiteful [unnecessary. Sinc].
.
15 Dec 12 at 5:10 pm
Forgetting partisanship for a minute numbers, you really are a spiteful c**t.
.
15 Dec 12 at 5:11 pm
C’mon Rabz. We don’t know that he’s fat.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 5:12 pm
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 5:12 pm
MUST READ, cultural relativism at The Age.
What a confused article this is, Genital surgery on the rise: doctors (The Age)
Eh, that would be adult women choosing to have their bits surgically altered. I don’t think any are going for the labia removal option or getting their vaginas stitched shut.
See above, adults undergoing VOLUNTARY surgery.
Did we change subjects? Now we’re talking about something which is ILLEGAL.
Caucasian women and children are engaged in the ILLEGAL version? By Caucasian you mean white girls right, and they’re getting the illegal version you say Kate? (Freaking hell, “Caucasian”! Is that a race? A culture?)
I give up, here’s the rest…
What a mutilated piece of journalism! (Where are you Prof Bunyip?)
Harold
15 Dec 12 at 5:14 pm
Thanks Mk, but we indeed do know this indisputable fact.
Lobotomised leftist losers of his advanced age are inevitably morbidly obese.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 5:16 pm
Leftists have always promoted this puerile form of reasoning across all areas, for example comparing the Israeli security barrier to the Berlin Wall.
Fisky
15 Dec 12 at 5:21 pm
Eddystone, re the 1902. If the barrel has been replaced it’s still no biggie, just part of the artifact’s history especially if it was used as a utility rifle on a farm for half a century! You’d expect a replacement barrel in those circumstances.
And the core of the rifle is the action anyway..
I’d certainly search Skennerton very carefully, and most certainly not discard any part of the rifle. It’s quite likely that the remaining furniture is original. After all, when sporterising, why replace the stock?
Right now you have a Boer War era rifle with a bit of the history known. That’s all good!
Not to mention loads of fun to restore.
Mk50 of Brisbane
15 Dec 12 at 5:23 pm
Just when SfB goes, this pretend army hero, pretend saviour of the disabled, pretend teacher and pretend siege hero turns up. Fuckhead
Tiny Dancer
15 Dec 12 at 5:25 pm
Yep – but he’ll get his and hopefully soon in the form of a massive fatal coronary.
There’s a special corner in hell for vermin who debase the sacrifices of real war heroes.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 5:31 pm
Also today the same journalist has authored Protecting daughters from primitive rites, a long article discussing real FMG but also discussing legal cosmetic surgery.
Wonder if they stuffed up some where?
Harold
15 Dec 12 at 5:37 pm
Can someone remind me of the fix when every time I go to the Catallaxy homepage I get the ‘Ozblogistan is broken message” ?
Ta
Rococo Liberal
15 Dec 12 at 5:42 pm
Rococo, I find following Catallaxy on twitter simpler than going to the web site. Just a thought.
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 5:45 pm
I’m hearing the gnns were officially owned by the mother. I’m betting the mother bought them for the killer under her name as a way of trying to please the little bastard.
JC
15 Dec 12 at 5:54 pm
I like having a rifle. It’s good for killing pigs and roos, and any other thing that needs killin’. Even beer cans.
But for the life of me I can’t understand the need for handguns or assault rifles. Their purpose is specifically to kill people. And thus should not be available to the public.
Entropy
15 Dec 12 at 6:08 pm
Ent
Handguns also help protect people too
The moment one of these horrific things occur in the US there is a cry to remove guns from the people that commit the crime.
JC
15 Dec 12 at 6:11 pm
There’s no fix. Just come back a bit later. The site was playing up this morning for a while.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 6:15 pm
What a totally sick, truly disgusting comment.
He should be fired for saying that.
Gets back to my point in the last Open Thread about today’s sanctimonious medicos and what a bunch of ignorant quacks they are.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 6:18 pm
I’m pro cosmetic surgery. My response to people who chimed in when I had a face lift was…
If I want to put my tits on my forehead, I will!
I look gorgeous, by the way!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 6:35 pm
FGM is a way of debasing themselves (in our eyes) while they steal the enjoyment of their women. It’s what they do, and they do it for dominance. It is not “cosmetic”.
It is the belly of the beast.
blogstrop
15 Dec 12 at 6:40 pm
Personally I would like one, not for hunting, but for fishing.
I have been up close and personal with a feral pig and a feral dog up in prime trout country.
You don’t want to be in that situation. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt.
Assault rifle may be a misnomer. Why allow bow and arrows, edged martial arts weapons, etc?
.
15 Dec 12 at 6:43 pm
Professor Ajay Rane here
The other quoted is Associate Professor Sonia Grover. The article implies she said Caucasian women were seeking genital mutilation procedures. I wonder if Grover phrased it specifically like that.
Harold
15 Dec 12 at 6:49 pm
Now that Ozblogistan is no longer broken…
So Who’s best?
+1 for Quadrophenia.
lotocoti
15 Dec 12 at 6:51 pm
Since the site was playing up this morning, I went and Did Stuff (watched Act of Valour, bought more pressies, wrapped more pressies, hung out with the new neighbours).
I’ve a question for numbers, since he likes to identify as a catholic. What is your position on euthanasia, what about capital punishment, and how do you reconcile the two?
We already know you’re cool with abortion (which is completely against the Magisterium but let’s not go there for now).
And back to the shooting, apart from his mother owning the guns, the shooter’s parents were separated,and apparently his father had recently remarried.
That’s got create some issues right there.
Of course, Alex Jones and co think that Lanza was trained by the CIA, but that’s par for the course.
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 7:07 pm
Impossible to separate Who’s Next and Quadrophenia for mine. Both are in the top ten albums made in the 70′s.
tbh
15 Dec 12 at 7:15 pm
The schools referred the abuse to the police. Unlike the Catholic church they did not attempt to handle the complaint in house. They did not transfer the alleged abuser to another school in the state, interstate or overseas.
In South Australia it is illegal to publicly identify someone alleged of a sexually based crime until a certain stage of the court process has been reached. Whilst I think the cases the other parents should have been informed, in one of the cases the school community was not told of the allegations because a relative of the abuser (presumably a child) also attended the school and they were trying to balance the impact the school’s community right to know against the impact the news would have on an innocent party.
Chris
15 Dec 12 at 7:23 pm
Don’t have Quadrophonia. But Who’s Next would be hard to beat.
sdfc
15 Dec 12 at 7:23 pm
Well that worked out well for her. Not only was she killed by someone using her own guns but so were many of the children she taught.
Chris
15 Dec 12 at 7:26 pm
Like motor vehicles work out well for 30 or so Australians each week.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 7:27 pm
Sure, and the 9/11 deaths were equivalent to about a month’s worth of car crashes for the US. And look at the magnitude of response they had to those.
Chris
15 Dec 12 at 7:38 pm
I reckon the Stones have two in the 70s top ten, Sticky Fingers and Exile. So what is the rest of the top ten?
sdfc
15 Dec 12 at 7:43 pm
I would strongly recommend a purchase of said album. I was all about Who’s Next since the age of about 14. Then I discovered Quadrophenia and it became apparent to me that Townshend’s genius was no fluke.
tbh
15 Dec 12 at 7:44 pm
Other candidates for me..
Yes – Close to the Edge
Thin Lizzy – Black Rose
ELP – Tarkus
Genesis – The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Santana – Abraxas
King Crimson – Red
Rush – Hemispheres
Kraftwerk – Autobahn
UFO – Lights Out
Floyd – Dark Side of the Moon
Queen – A Night at the Opera
and that’s just off the top of my head.
tbh
15 Dec 12 at 7:47 pm
Sure, and the 9/11 deaths were equivalent to about a month’s worth of car crashes for the US. And look at the magnitude of response they had to those.
That depends on your perspective of the casualty count and the financial cost. My personal perspective is that although Afghanistan and Iraq were/are morally quite OK, the cost/benefit ratio does not make it worth it. The US casualty count was simply too high, let alone the financial cost.
Having said that some people would say a cost of 6000 casualties (I don’t know the accurate figure) was acceptable.
Having said that, I would support a large program along the lines of what Mossad would have done. But some other people don’t find that morally acceptable.
For what it’s worth, if you take Switzerland as the example and compare it to other defence forces, European and otherwise, I think there is a very solid case for a militia approach vs the large standing defence force approach using a cost/benefit analysis.
John Mc
15 Dec 12 at 7:48 pm
Go Anne! Sometimes in the car I observe approvingly via the vanity mirror (well named) and by discreet placement of fingers how I’d look sans wrinkles of life.
Like you say, damned good!
Disclaimer: I am not driving at the time.
Helen Armstrong
15 Dec 12 at 7:57 pm
Off the top of my head
Led Zeppelin – Physical Graffiti
Sex Pistols – Bollocks
Queen – Queen II, Night at the Opera
Dylan – Blood on the Tracks
Kinks – Lola, Muswell Hillbillies
Would probably be revised if I had a good think.
Off out now being made to socialise.
sdfc
15 Dec 12 at 7:58 pm
Physical Graffiti, absolutely. Worth it for Kashmir alone.
To wit….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfR_HWMzgyc
and Ten Years Gone as well.
tbh
15 Dec 12 at 8:01 pm
The seventies was possibly the most abysmal decade in human history kulcha wise, but here’s some of my nominations*:
Bowie – Aladdin Sane & Young Americans
The Velvets – Loaded (just)
XTC – Drums ‘n’ Wires & Go 2
Keith Hudson – Pick a Dub
Iggy and the Stooges – Raw Power
*Excluding the Who, the Stones and others already nominated.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 8:19 pm
Abridged version: it’s OK when Labor governments do it.
C.L.
15 Dec 12 at 8:21 pm
Thanks Helen. I bet you look nice.
I consider it basic maintenance, like renovating the kitchen.
Apropos Harold’s post however, I figure once a man gets to the bathroom door he’s committed!
Ha ha
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 8:30 pm
Dunno about the “just”. It’s a great album however contains a couple of tracks that don’t stand the test of time.
That’s the case with all VU albums. Stooges’ albums are the same. Lucky in the digital age we can make our own best of albums.
There are not many albums without a weak track or two. Maybe Let it Bleed and a couple of Stones’ live albums – Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out and Some Girls – Live in Texas ’78.
jupes
15 Dec 12 at 8:37 pm
Jupes,
As I said – from such an abysmal decade few treasures exist.
To be honest, most of my favourite ever albums are from the early eighties.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 8:48 pm
* Cream
* Yardbirds
* Spencer Davis Group
* Hendrix
* Pink Floyd
…have never been bettered. Just as well you understood the brilliance of the Who, Rabzie. We’re just about due for another great musical era (although it must be admitted there was a fair gap between Mozart and Presley and the Beatles)
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 8:52 pm
Almost every great album was made between 1965 and 1975 – the greatest decade of music. 1980 – 89 was the worst. I don’t listen to anything made after 1979.
jupes
15 Dec 12 at 8:54 pm
Potemkin’s Village
The louder he talked of his honour… here
Grigory Potemkin
15 Dec 12 at 9:02 pm
Tom, the reason I was a Mod was because of my love of Sixties music. My first ever musical memories are of my sister blasting the Stones, the Who, the Kinks, the Yardbirds, Small Faces, Iggy, Lou and Bowie.
I later discovered Motown, Psychadelia and modern Jazz following the punk youthquake in the late seventies.
The eighties saw some great music, including many albums without a dud track.
For example – are you familiar with Naz Nomad and the Nightmares’* “Give daddy the knife, Cindy”?
Magnificent.
*Actually another band, so to speak…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:09 pm
That’s just being stupid.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:11 pm
We diverge. Erm, that’s junk. Each to his own*.
*Not to be taken as dislike of your brilliant contributions to this blog.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 9:18 pm
Well, what have we here?
An interesting pop character and svengali from the 60s, 70s and beyond…
Thanks Tom, we will agree to disagree on matters musical…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:21 pm
The original and the best…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:31 pm
I see your Gladys Knight and raise you Creedence.
jupes
15 Dec 12 at 9:35 pm
Is it any wonder I reject you first?
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:39 pm
As a youth, I was production editor of an Adelaide-based national rock mag/fanzine through the punk era (“Roadrunner”). I also worked in the same building as the Kelly sisters (Gabrielle, Kate and Fran The Activist) as a writer on a leftwing arts magazine called Get Out in Don Dunstan’s Adelaide. Most of it is too embarrassing in hindsight. I must now press “submit comment” as a purgative.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 9:40 pm
Every time she puts on a radio
There was nothin’ goin’ down at all…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:41 pm
Confessional!
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:42 pm
sydney fc – it’s hara-kiri time, you jokes!
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 9:46 pm
Rabz, I prefer your old gravatar. This one’s freaking me out!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 9:50 pm
Yes me too. Its scary – should I throw a dart at it?
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 9:56 pm
Rabz’s new RAF gravatar made me think of this piece of lunacy.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 10:02 pm
Rabz
we are on the ame wavelength – musiz in the 60s and 70s wa sso great and so lightly imperfect.Never heard that one! Soon as they switched to computer mixing music went just so sterilely perfect…it got boring.
my fav bit of psychedelia (of course!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:03 pm
Tom, did you ever come across Young Modern?
Rococo Liberal
15 Dec 12 at 10:07 pm
I like it Rabz, I imagine you patrolling the sky for Zeros and Messerschmidt and the Russian types, shooting them down when they dare to approach. You know, like the Steve’s and so forth.
Helen Armstrong
15 Dec 12 at 10:10 pm
People, please!
Not trying to be controversial – this gravatar has an historical antecedent, as a lot of commenters here would know.
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 10:14 pm
What about Slim?
Helen Armstrong
15 Dec 12 at 10:16 pm
Rabz
How about a bit of anti Vietnam war memorabilia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:16 pm
Yes, RL. But they were swept away in the tide of British punk and Aussie pub rock of the ’70s and early ’80s.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 10:17 pm
It’s confronting! Don’t know why.
‘Twill be haunting my dreams!
Anne
15 Dec 12 at 10:17 pm
Thanks Helen – I always wanted to be a fighter pilot…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 10:17 pm
My Mum would love that Helen!
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:17 pm
Rabz new gravatar still looks like a target ie knife throwing, pistol shooting etc…or a big red eye.
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:21 pm
Atonal garbage all of them, and i heard them growing up.
Carpe Jugulum
15 Dec 12 at 10:23 pm
Fightin’ words, Sir Jugs! But everyone has a different experience.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 10:26 pm
Rabz family Christmas gathering
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 10:27 pm
Thanks Alice, always loved that li’l ditty.
Wait only for my boot heels to be a wanderin’…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 10:27 pm
HO, HO, HO!
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 10:29 pm
Taliban aircraft roundel
Translation: If you are close enough to read my roundel, I’m fucked.
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 10:35 pm
Radio Birdman, Radio appears
Sex Pistols, Great Rock n Roll Swindle
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 10:39 pm
This Year’s Model: Costello at his bitchy best ‘Now that you picture’s in the paper being rhythmically admired’
Ultravox! : In the John Foxx era when this was the band that musicians listened to- ‘I want to be a machine’
The Psychomodo; Cockney Rebel doing things that were not done by anyone else in the year the rest of the world was beig boringly bluesy: ‘Masturbation, getting off, you can stick you ideals up a nothing new’
Aladin Sane: Bowie showing all how it was done- “time falls wanking to the floor’
A Tonic for Troops: Geldof before he became so precious “It’s a rat trap , Billy, and you’ve been caught’
Three Imaginary Boys: Robert Smith making music that sounded like no-one else, before the drugs and the make-up climed him: ‘F-i-r-e-i-n-Ca-i-r-o’
All Mod Cons: The Jam being a little less strident and more lyrical: ‘faraway places and faraway trains
Chairs Missing: Wire, the true begetters of punk “Up in my bedroom I’ve got Sraah Berhardt’s hand’
Look Sharp!: Joe Jackson’s new wave classic debut: “if wanna know about the new sex position, you can read it in the Sunday papers”
London Calling: A lot of agitprop crap but Mick Jones just couldn’t help being good and the title track is the quintessential E minor rock song. ‘If London is drowning then I live by the river’
Takin Tiger Mountain (by Strategy): Eno, who with the Beatles and Bowie influenced all who came after much more than any of the stadium rockers of the 60s and 70s. “If affairs are proceeding as we’re expecting soon enough the weak spots will show.”
Drums and Wires gets an honorary mention, but the problem with XTC was that they always overdid their hooks.
Rococo Liberal
15 Dec 12 at 10:42 pm
Tom
I had quite a close association with Young Modern in 80-81. They were in Sydney by then. Great days for live music in Oz.
Rococo Liberal
15 Dec 12 at 10:45 pm
I guess now is not the time to link to the Moody Blues?
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 10:48 pm
Rabz
Ho Ho ho LOL. Thats even scarier than your new gravatar…
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:49 pm
Slade Alive; Darling be home soon
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 10:53 pm
OMG, Splat – I’ve got that album!
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 10:54 pm
Rabz
Love the Byrds!
oh oh – its retro night.
Do you want to see a very pretty very young Stephen Stills (he of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young fame? at least I think it is?)
Check the Stetson with suit and the moonwalk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
Alice
15 Dec 12 at 10:56 pm
Nilk, I’ll see your Moody Blues and raise you Mike Oldfield
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 10:57 pm
Nilk, I like their version of Born to be Wild. I think it’s the best. I remember when Slade came to Australia. My Sister was a huge fan. She had the platfrom shoes, glitter on the face and satin bell bottoms. The only way she was allowed to see them was that our Mum had to accompany her. Apparently she had a good time but was deaf for a few days.
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 11:01 pm
Meh. Tubular Bells is so last month. Try some Five Miles Out.
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 11:02 pm
I only discovered Slade Alive in my 20s (ie the 90s) because they were a favourite of the company I was keeping those days. He was a big fan and introduced me to a lot of good stuff.
And Bread.
Oh well.
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 11:03 pm
Seventh Sojourn was one of the great albums, Nilk. Much personal history there, too.
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 11:10 pm
Alice,
How about a bit of anti Vietnam war memorabilia?
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 11:15 pm
Slade Alive – fuck yeah!
Fave listening way back when…
Rabz
15 Dec 12 at 11:18 pm
And who could forget this awesome addition to John Sebastian’s body of work?
Of course, Mark Mothersbaugh of Devo went on to make a serious living out of music for kids’ tv and movies.
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 11:25 pm
Personally I would like one, not for hunting, but for fishing.
I have been up close and personal with a feral pig and a feral dog up in prime trout country.
You don’t want to be in that situation. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt.
Can anyone help me here? Do I need a game licence?
I am quite serious about this.
.
15 Dec 12 at 11:28 pm
LOL. Rugrats and Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs came after Slaughterhouse Rock.
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 11:29 pm
One should not forget Procul Harum
Septimus
15 Dec 12 at 11:34 pm
So much to comment on re music.
Firstly, Tom, you are a star. Your taste is impeccable, and you are not the only one whose political affiliations in the 70s are now a bit of an embarrassment. Then again, it shows that at least we have the capacity to learn and change. The people I worry about are those who make up their minds when they are very young and set them in stone.
Secondly, for once I agree with RC about something – Taking Tiger Mountain and Another Green World (Eno) are so far ahead of their time, and beyond time, that they rank as examples of genius (IMO).
I’ll stop counting, but keep droning on. I was lucky enough to see Radio Birdman and The Saints live many times – once together at the Paddo Town Hall. There is a poor quality but memorable video available (in segments) on You Tube. Oh, and I have the poster, which I intend to sell for a motza when I am broke in my old age.
I still play my Stooges albums. I Just Wanna Be Your Dog is a particular favourite, as is Raw Power in its entirety. Definitely prefer the vinyl versions, even though they are scratched to buggery. Warmth of sound, etc. Can’t someone in this age of technical whizzbangery find a way to replicate that for digital technology?
Lists are always problematic, but I wouldn’t reject most of the nominations, although I greatly prefer the Stones’ early work. Who’s Next is undoubtedly up there – and I have Slade Alive and play that too. Darlin’ Be Home Soon is great (“all the drunken lads can shout anything they like. It all adds to the atmosphere.”) But a track called something like Know Who You Are is also well worth a listen.
I consider myself so lucky to have been young between 1960 and 1980, a period of unparalleled explosion of talent and creativity in popular music. My old man had juke boxes as part of his business, and my singles collection is to die for!
Speaking of singles, Eric Burdon and the Animals. ‘When I Was Young’ is one of the most achingly beautiful songs about growing up in bleak, working class Britain ever.
johanna
15 Dec 12 at 11:38 pm
Yes, Your move
I used to spend a few hazy nights with some mates debating the meaning of the lyrics of songs. We decided only Bobby Fischer would be able to escape the white Queen.
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 11:38 pm
It depends which state you live in dot. They are all different.
Qld licencing requirements
Splatacrobat
15 Dec 12 at 11:42 pm
I’m going to go to bed now, because one of my all time, favourite songs is courtesy of Dr. Demento.
Who knew that young Will Robinson would grow up to write some of the silliest music you’ve ever heard?
nilk
15 Dec 12 at 11:42 pm
You Keep Me Hanging On (Vanilla Fudge original)
Tom
15 Dec 12 at 11:43 pm
Fuck me those rules are stupid.
“We recommend a minimum size of 500 acres for a rpimary production reason to own a concealable firearm”
What…the effing hell has that got to do with the price of bloody counterfeit Louis Vuitton in Tianjan?
.
15 Dec 12 at 11:49 pm
Knew the guy who allegedly came up with the title. In the morning, after a hard night, said to one of PH that he looked a whiter shade of pale.
It was Guy Stevens. I think he produced WSP.
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 12:00 am
The Yes Album. The only one I own, and Your Move is awesome.
Tom, please keep posting clips. I can’t remember – who did the original version? – I dimly recall that it was pretty good too.
Not sure why Led Zep IV was not on any of the lists. “Levee”, loud and on a good sound system, still shakes me to the core. It is also very descriptive of the aftermath of Katrina.
johanna
16 Dec 12 at 12:08 am
We Gotta Get Out of this Place is still pretty good too..
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 12:09 am
The only great “Levee” I know is much more modern.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 12:16 am
Earlier tonight had a turps on with a bloke who reckons a distant cousin was lead guitar with Jack Johnson.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 12:20 am
Bingo. The last real asset they have is sold.
FAIRFAX MEDIA is reportedly selling its remaining stake in Trade Me for about $650 million.
If the sale were to proceed, it would pay down the company’s debts considerably.
Now only the radio is left.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 12:27 am
Earlier tonight was on the turps with Jack Johnson.
I guess I win
Leigh Lowe
16 Dec 12 at 12:31 am
Thanks, Laz, you are right. Burdon was a scrawny, undernourished plumber’s apprentice with the voice and sensibility of a true bluesman. The House of the Rising Sun was his biggest hit, and is still on jukeboxes, but there were several more and at least equally good songs.
Tom, there are Dylan fans and there are the rest. Fraid I’m one of the rest. I like some of his early stuff, but must say that I find the notion of an elderly, rich, white Jew impersonating an old style black blues singer unconvincing, to say the least. Not to mention that the Led Zep version has John Bonham demonstrating why he is possibly the greatest drummer of his era.
Someone upthread mentioned Pink Floyd. ‘Set the Controls’ etc still thrills me. It is as iconic as Hal in ’2001′ and Bowie’s Major Tom in terms of space travel art. Their body of work is comparable to any of the classic composers, IMO.
johanna
16 Dec 12 at 12:36 am
Came to this late.
Sickening thing this murder of innocents in Connecticut.
Beyond politics or ideology.
But look back through this thread and see who first raised and politicised it.
……
On a lighter note (kind of) …. saw a doco last night on Freddy Mercury ….. that man could buy and sell most of the “musical legends” being thrown up on this thread.
Leigh Lowe
16 Dec 12 at 12:37 am
Leigh, it was “Freddie”, so I take it that you have come into this discussion without a clue, as usual.
He was a very good singer with an operatic range and style, and Queen were a very accomplished band. Claiming that he could buy and sell the other greats under discussion is just dumb.
Comparisons between artists are odious.
johanna
16 Dec 12 at 12:52 am
I didn’t like Dylan until he reinvented himself. He’s an awesome musician and arranger. Modern Times is one of the Greatest Albums of the past 50 years, IMO. (His rhythm guitarist Stu Kimball is also a friend from Nashville, where I lived in ’07.)
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 12:52 am
Really Lowe?
I’ll duck next door to the guy who told me about Jack johnson and check where he is.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 12:58 am
The Yes Album is brilliant. Yours Is No Disgrace is my favourite, along with Perpetual Change. It was in my parents collection for a long time before I listened to it and it literally changed my life, along with Who’s Next. Those albums taught me that rock music could be complex and literate and still rock at the same time.
tbh
16 Dec 12 at 2:24 am
Did no-one else here notice jazz-rock in the 70s?
Perhaps the most perfect album of all time was released in ’76… Return to Forever’s Romantic Warrior.
A taste
mct
16 Dec 12 at 4:25 am
Too gay for me, I’m afraid.
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 4:54 am
Johanna, Zeppelin are possibly the worst of the white blues rockers. To add insult, they stole credit for lyrics.
Dylan never represented himself as a black bluesman. He has always been a Woody-style white folk protest singer.
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 4:58 am
As Rice Miller said, “These white kids wanna play the blues so bad. And they play the blues, so bad.”
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 5:00 am
I love Zeppelin, but lyrically Robert Plant was like a meth head reading The Hobbit.
Welcome to wanktasia. Make yourself comfortable because this song is 12 minutes long and we have no clue what it means. Awesome riff and bass line though. Enjoy.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 5:02 am
They had some great riffs, but Plant is like torture.
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 5:21 am
Potemkin’s Village
Oh, I may be devout… here
Grigory Potemkin
16 Dec 12 at 5:53 am
Some good news in the ” fiscal cliff ” thing .
Lowering of US farm subsidies, maybe.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 6:43 am
Hate to break up the little reminiscing party here, but the majority of bands quoted were fronted and populated by clapped out drug funked hippie types who, frankly, made complete arseholes out of themselves, some of whom took so many drugs they either committed suicide or just plain dropped dead, who struggled to release a whole albums worth of good material over decades.
Robert Plant’s greatest claim to fame is starring in a super8 video stuffing fish parts into a womans parts. Sound like somebody you would worship? Daltrey got around in a cape and threw televions out the window. Brilliant!
Dan
16 Dec 12 at 6:53 am
Although, the US are far from the worst offenders with regard to market distorting Government agricultural subsidies
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 7:19 am
How nice. The Lying Slapper is given her own promotional spread in the Sydney Sun-Herald to show us the latest version of the Real Julia …oh, and AbbottAbbottAbbott:
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 7:25 am
Intriguing. Is there a new party running?
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 7:31 am
That would’ve been Keith Moon.
Daltrey wasn’t a fan of drugs, he felt they were performance inhibiting, LSD spiked ice cubes notwithstanding.
lotocoti
16 Dec 12 at 7:41 am
Agree, mct. I still play that RTF disc occasionally, along with Di Meola’s early ones like Elegant Gypsy.
Blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 7:47 am
Meanwhile, Fairfax has to sell the only profitable bit of the business to pay down nearly $1 billion in debt while it talks up its fabulously fabulous digital business, which is doing little more than collapsing group revenue (it’s still only 10% of turnover, FFS, because it relies on junk advertising revenue, which is only a fraction of old media rates). But it’s all good.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 7:53 am
Unfortunately not, but there will be a choice of an honesty, competent, decent PM and Gillard.
Could be worth casting a valid vote just for the satisfaction of playing your own small part in ending the Terror.
johno
16 Dec 12 at 8:10 am
Re the love-up piece in the Sun-Herald (haven’t seen it, not in Sydney, can’t bear to look anyway).
Gillard is absolutely shameless.
And the press are complicit in it, which can fool quite a lot of people some of the time. If they manage to return us another four years of this scheming harriden and her corrupt government perhaps then more people will see the light and lay some blame. Perhaps circulation figures suggest more and more people are doing that already.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
16 Dec 12 at 8:16 am
One-Term Ted helps bring to fruition a giant Labor fuck-up:
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 8:18 am
Two-party preferred certainly does.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 8:24 am
OMG I missed some great songs after I went to bed last night. Sky Pilot
Rabz! On target.
(Dont forget Burdon’s other psychedelia retro classic “spill the wine”)
Oh and “set me free why dont you babe? Get out of my life why dont you babe? Vanilla fudge.
I’ll have to come back listen tonight to what I missed. Blessed is you tube. What would we do without it?
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:25 am
Jump – I did respond to your question from the previous thread, see 7.07 am 15th.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 8:33 am
I make do with many compilations imported into iTunes, including the 9 CD set The British Invasion.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 8:36 am
Rabz
Hippy memorabilia here. I had to hunt for it but the pics are priceless. All that hair..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beAZXEWwKiA
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:40 am
Splat and Nilk, we are on the same musical wavelength. Though I will always believe (and Oldfield himself conceded on the basis of sales) that TB2003 was an abortus of monumental polyploidy, and the original was in many ways the better work.
Contrary to what anyone would have you believe, it’s not just a cleaner version without the early-70s electronic patchwork; it’s a sometimes not-so-subtle reimagining. IMO Tubular Bells 2, a deliberate, more overt, and subsequently more liberated rewrite, was far better – and the less said about “Tubular Bells 3″, the better. The last line from Far Above the Clouds says it all”
“And nothing was ever heard from him again, except for the sound of tubular bells.”
At which point even I, Oldfield junkie that I was, had to exclaim “God spare us.”
perturbed
16 Dec 12 at 8:43 am
Rock’n'Roll!
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 8:54 am
Yeah! Way to go Rabz – the music was good on the way out!
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 9:03 am
Perturbed I’m a purist. I’ve never listened to the re-imagined Tubular Bells. I first heard it as a child in sunny Ingleburn (!) where it was being played by the kids’ next door’s father.
There was no need for a remake, so I see no need to listen to one.
Kind of like the way I’ve never seen the digital ‘remaster’ of any of the original Star Wars movies.
nilk
16 Dec 12 at 9:35 am
I think it was a bit of a rip off of Pink Floyd’s Wall “Look mummy, there’s an airplane up in the sky” and “If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pudding”.
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 9:41 am
The lead signer has the greatest haircut, moustache and jeans print. Ever. Of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0iuaxvkXv4
He also kind of looks like Eric Bana.
.
16 Dec 12 at 9:51 am
Where’s Tiny Dancer?
Anne
16 Dec 12 at 9:52 am
Not much Aussie music in the mix so far.
Let me suggest:
Born Sandy Devotional and Calenture by the Triffids,
16 Lovers Lane by the Go Betweens
Radios Appear by Radio Birdman
Honey Steel’s Gold by Ed Keupper
Henry’s Dream by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
Eternally yours by the Saints
The Axeman’s Jazz by the Beasts of Bourbon
Of Skins and Hearts by the Church
Some greatest Australian Songs
Know your product – the Saints
Bury me deep in love – the Triffids
Cattle and Cane – the Go Betweens
More Fun – Radio Birdman
You think I’m psycho don’t you mumma – the Beasts of Bourbon
I know it was all from an era – but it was a lot of fun.
John Comnenus
16 Dec 12 at 9:55 am
The only Aussie music worth a pinch of shit was created by some wee boys from Scotland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivsF-oxEuIg
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 9:57 am
Yay for gun control!
Those effervescent geniuses of the left in Britain brought in draconian restrictions on honest law abiding people after a lunatic murdered mahy at Dunblane.
yay!
Look how brilliantly that’s turned out. Only an 89% increased in gun crime and gangs running wild.
And yet, every time some nut does a Dunblane, the left insist on blaming and trying to punish the people who did not do it, for the benefit of criminals and street gangs.
leftism is a mental disease.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html#ixzz2FAEOnLSE
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 9:59 am
Best ever rock single.
jupes
16 Dec 12 at 10:02 am
Quite so!
Lew
16 Dec 12 at 10:12 am
Imagine trying to make that film clip in Melbourne today? They’d have received 15 traffic infringements and been shot by the TRG before they even got a quarter of the way up Swanston.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 10:13 am
Can’t find a clip but… remember…
“Elouise” by Barry Ryan?
Anne
16 Dec 12 at 10:38 am
Rightly so.
Victoria is a backwards, socialist shithole.
Anyone trying to do anything genuinely creative there must be out of their minds.
“Oh, but the freeway has a bit of shotcrete painted some shite orange colour…”
.
16 Dec 12 at 10:39 am
Any hair works with great bone structure but his jeans look like pajamas for a four year old. The Indian chief is pretty cool but you know the leftists would scream “OFFENSIVE”!!!
Anne
16 Dec 12 at 10:43 am
100% factually accurate.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 10:47 am
A Tour de Force – Neil Young and Crazy Horse – 22 October 1978:
Rust Never Sleeps
Septimus
16 Dec 12 at 11:03 am
Hmm.
Also interesting.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/clackamas-shooter-confronted-by-ccw-holder/
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 11:07 am
I’m a huge fan of 70′s jazz fusion. The Romantic Warrior is definitely in my collection, as are albums by the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brand X and Herbie Hancock.
tbh
16 Dec 12 at 11:11 am
Hmm.
Meanwhile, at a primary school in Israel…..not a 20 year old armed murderer to be seen
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 11:25 am
@ Mk50
Let’s get a few gun facts straight. Handguns are made to maim and kill people. Anyone using a handgun to protect their home is an idiot. A handgun round would more likely go through the wall or window and stands as much chance of killing a child or neighbour as hitting a crook. Trained police and military have a hard time getting hits in an excited and confusing confrontation, good luck to an idiot like Harry Carry homeowner.
Suggesting teachers carry handguns is ludicrous. Next the gun wankers will be advocating lowering the age of concealed carry to include toddlers. That’s the logical extension of the “arm yourself” meme.
And you reckon you’ll get the first shot in a street confrontation or carjacking? Good luck Harry Carry. An armed crook would be ready. You wouldn’t be. Pulling out a weapon against someone that has the drop on you would most likely result in your funeral.
In this relatively safe community, your chances of getting robbed or mugged, is pretty small. The greater chance is shooting yourself, a loved one, a friend, a neighbour, or your kids or their friends shooting themselves. Another real possibility is having your gun taken away from you or stolen and used to kill someone else. That is precisely what happened at Sandy Hook.
Hand guns are people killers. They are easily hidden. Handguns are exponentially used more to harm innocent people than to save or help them. They are a threat to public health and safety
If you are paranoid about protecting yourself, get a shotgun. For that tiny delusional segment of the population out there that worship these killing machines, who feel they may have to repulse a foreign invader, get over it.
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years. Unfortunately I turned out to be a good shot, which was probably influencial in my posting as Infantry rifleman. I was very pleased to get rid of it. The army didn’t stuff about. They made very sure we knew these things were killing machines, and trained us to treat them accordingly under pain of severe penalties if we didn’t.
I saw a few gun nuts come in with my Nasho intake. They were swiftly identified by the NCOs and came in for heightened vigilance and special treatment if they stuffed up. They did, much more than average. I don’t know which came first – their wankers’ attitude to firearms, or their below average IQs.
Very few ended up in Infantry. They were a risk to themselves and everyone around them.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 11:26 am
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
.
16 Dec 12 at 11:32 am
What a bunch of cockheads.
http://www.invasives.org.au/
Basically a green astroturfing outfit.
.
16 Dec 12 at 11:39 am
A litany of lies and bigotry, thankfully some people called Cox on his bullshit.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4144160.html
.
16 Dec 12 at 11:43 am
Morgan Freeman’s brilliant take on what happened yesterday :
Aussieute
16 Dec 12 at 11:56 am
She really is a morally deranged, clinically dishonest tramp.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 11:56 am
Would probably have less trouble filming that AC/DC music video given that Swanston Street is a mall now.
Oh, what am I saying? Victoria is a commie cesspit that deserves to burn. Y’know, because of speed cameras or something like that.
Toxic
16 Dec 12 at 11:58 am
Gun laws fail:
Police at scene of double murder in Tasmania.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 12:00 pm
This is only the case in jurisdictions without legal concealed carry.
Toxic
16 Dec 12 at 12:00 pm
Mr.Cox would probably prefer that any necessary culling be left to the “professionals” like the clowns from the National Parks and Wildlife Service who did such a sterling job culling feral horses in the Guy Fawkes National Park In 2000.Using helicopters and semi-auto rifles they managed to leave a trail of wounded animals to die a slow and painful death.
Lew
16 Dec 12 at 12:07 pm
If the media must insist on naming these dicks, they could at least do the right thing and prefix their names with “Loser”.
“Loser Tim Smith was today found dead at Springfield High. Police spokesman Seamus O’Flaherty reports that witnesses all agreed he was a loser with a micro penis.”
These school shootings are exactly like LA police chases. They have spiked purely because of the publicity they garner.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 12:07 pm
LOL:
Labor seizes on Slipper case revelation.
Entsch knew before the media.
Wow. And?
Lying turd Albanese says his nazi inquiry into the Opposition won’t be political:
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 12:08 pm
The form of Little Albo’s inquiry could provide a useful template for the forthcoming Coalition inquiry into corrupt Trade Unions.
Lew
16 Dec 12 at 12:12 pm
Once Tony is PM he should hold an enquiry into how, Albo, a man who would struggle to operate a TV remote became Leader of the House.
If he doesn’t have a disabled parking permit, soemthing is wrong.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 12:18 pm
Translation – I worked in the kitchen but talk tough years later.
Tiny Dancer
16 Dec 12 at 12:47 pm
- from numbers.
Bullshit, on both counts. You live in a 40+ year old fantasy world.
Pedro the Ignorant
16 Dec 12 at 12:47 pm
I once missed a rabbit from 15 yards with a shotgun on my uncle’s farm.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 12:57 pm
WTF is “influencial” you educashen exspert?
Tiny Dancer
16 Dec 12 at 1:06 pm
I encourage everyone to have a look at accidental death statistics for both disease and accidents in the USA and Australia just by using Google, ABS and Wikipedia. It really puts things in perspective.
An Australian is around 3.3 times more likely to die of suicide than an American is likely to be murdered by a firearm.
An Australian is 2.5 to 37 times more likely to die of one of these diseases than an American is to be murdered by a firearm (these are the leading diseases causes of death in Australia according to ABS):
Ischaemic heart diseases
Cerebrovascular diseases
Dementia and Alzheimer disease
Trachea, bronchus and lung cancer
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Colon, sigmoid, rectum and anus cancer
Diabetes
Blood and lymph cancer (including leukaemia)
Heart failure
Diseases of the urinary system
Prostate Cancer
Breast cancer
Pancreatic cancer
Influenza and pneumonia
Intentional self-harm
Skin cancers
Hypertensive diseases
Accidental falls
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver
Cardiac arrhythmias
Even an American is more likely to be murdered by some other means than a firearm.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 1:16 pm
IMO hoping for a balanced approach to responsible gun policy in the US is so difficult as Americans seemed to have turned gun ownership into a fetish.
For many people in the US guns have become
- an integral part of their personal and national identity
- a symbol of patriotism and personal liberty
- a bulwark against future tyranny
- the only shield against danger
- a primary recreational activity
In reflective moments I wonder how many Americans ask themselves how healthy it is to have elevated an instrument of killing to such a central position in their lives and philosophy.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 1:17 pm
And yet, Viva, they’ve achieved substantially more than pretty much all other nations on the planet! There must be something right in their approach, not just to guns but generally speaking.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 1:20 pm
It appears the Labor Government is now seeking nominations for spending FY1314 budget.
What then is the purposes of all those bureaucrats in every Federal department, the Treasury, Finance, and other major groups devoted to such activities?
Another brilliant Swan idea, let us ask every Rent Seeker to tell us how much they want for their wish list of earmarked spending.
I assume however, Quadrant magazine won’t make the short list given the recent Literature Board decisions to cut funding.
Talleyrand
16 Dec 12 at 1:35 pm
Americans’ central value is liberty – to be free of constraints to achieve and be what you want in life even if it means some have to sink if they cannot swim. And yes this has released tremendous dynamism and creativity. But the desire for freedom has a dark side in which anarchic hyperindividualistic impulses can sometimes subsume the social constraints associated with civilised communal living. I believe this is what we are seeing in the wilful intransigance over any constraints on guns.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 1:42 pm
Numbers – the gift that keeps on giving many laughs:
That’s a first from this idiot.
False as stated. Most handguns, and nearly all ammo for them, are used on ranges. The 50s B competitions, for example, use thousands of rounds a weekend and everyone has a great time. It’s a social sporting event with nary a corpse to be seen.
False as stated. A brief examination of US media will show many people saving their lives from violent armed home invasions, mostly by methamphetamine users. Numbers thinks it’s idiotic to save your life in these circumstances.
The idiot here is Numbers, as usual.
Compeltely speculative. Also not in accordance with reality. Military and police are poorly trained on handguns. The pistol license holders I know spend at least one day a month at the range and routinely use 100 rounds in a session. The police requalify with 30% of that monthly expenditure rounds once a year. real enthusiasts, like teh 50sB mob, meet once a forthnight and routinely use 1000 rounds each, which is why the club together for autoloaders. I’m qualified on F88 and 9mm. F88 is one range day a year and 36 rounds, then 36 more in the LF9 test. When I go to the range I normally take 4 rifles and normally use 300 .22 rounds, 50 .22 magnum and 100 .303 rounds. That’s a normal month.
I work with law enforcement daily, and they are poorly trained and poor markemen, with cheap firearms.
An extension fallacy in logic which invalidates the point.
Poor Numbers, ever wonder why, in the US and elsewhere, lunatics commit their crimes in specified ‘gun free zones’? it’s to guarantee the helplessness of their targets. After Maalot, the Israelis armed their teachers. The only attack on a school since was terminated by an armed student.
SO it actually works, whereas your reliance on ‘magical thinking’ merely gives the lunatics more target choices.
Again, reality (and innumerable US media reports) give the lie to this statement. Crims are rarely trained, you see, and are often highly unstable due to drug wiithdrawal – and that gives opportunity to a trained man or woman. One sees that routinely in police reports, so your point is, again, ‘magical thinking’. it also ignores deterrence effects.
Youa re comparing Australia to the US in a meaningless way again.
You are sufficiently unintelligent that I expect this, however, and can now point it out and laugh at your stupidity. BTW, the last ACC briefing report noted an estimate of 16,000 semi-auto handguns in criminal hands on the eastern seaboard, all bar an insignificant number smuggled in, not stolen from law-abiding owners.
Another logical falalcy. Repeating your unsubstantiated opinions does not a fact make.
Strawman. Also note the extremely emotive use of words. lacking logic, facts or an argument at all, the leftard falls back on what it knows best, highly wrought emotion and an emotional play. In fact there are millions of registered firearms in the nation and membership of the SSAA has grown rapidly since the Howard gun buyback. About 15% of the population are registered gun owners. Since teh gun buyback, then, one would expect many more Hoddle Streets and so forth if the leftard was correct. This has not occurred, giving the lie to the leftard’s overwrought ‘drama queen’ hysterics here.
So the routine safety training meant to ensure safety when exhausted and stressed scared you. Poor diddums. As someone trained on 7.62mm L1A1, 5.56mm F88, 9mm F1, 9mm Browning, Minimi, .50 MG, 40mm bofors, 4.5″ and 5″, plus full demolitions quals, I can only regard your words here as laughably hysterical. Oh, I’ve been an instructor and RSO as well.
If you were such a patronising moron, no wonder you were regarded as an idiot (that’s froma few of your init mates BTW). The reason an instructor watches someone already familiar with firearms more than the others has nothing to do with the drivel you posted above, you pathetic clown.
It’s because they have to unlearn what they know and relearn new procedures. Teach a dozen L1A1 trained personnel the F88 and this becomes very clear.
it’s obvious that you being an idiot, you mistook the actions of good instructors in ‘untrain-retrain’ mode to be ‘special attention to the scum I despise’.
Thank you for so clearly and publicly illustrating just how great a patronising fool your really are, Numbers.
Now, I have greatly enjoyed this fisking, and I hope the normal denizens of the Cat do too, but the pool beckons.
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 1:46 pm
Viva,I completely agree with that summary, and also agree the main risk regarding private firearms ownership is human impulsive behaviour. There is a cost to doing anything. But I also believe the cost/benefit analysis of promoting an individualistic society where the individual is empowered, versus a ‘communal’ society where the individual is constrained in the interests of the ‘common good’ shows that the former is better than the latter. The Americans understand this.
I also don’t see the logic of how you can construct a society if you don’t believe people can be trusted. What sort of logic is it to believe that there’s people out there just waiting to kill me but I’ve fortunately been able to deny them the means through law? I also don’t believe that you really can with any certainty deny them the means through law.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 1:52 pm
Johanna, Zeppelin are possibly the worst of the white blues rockers. To add insult, they stole credit for lyrics.
———————–
Them’s fightin’ words, Abu. Of course everybody ripped off everybody else during the creative explosion of 1960-80. But, when it comes to “Mannish Boy”, for example, there are dozens of versions, mostly not attributed. Some made money, some didn’t. As Muddy Waters said – it’s the same old thing.
To suggest that a bunch of exceptionally talented musicians at the top of their game are ‘the worst’ is just ridiculous. OK, you don’t like them. I don’t like Queen. But (see my post way above) I don’t claim that they are terrible or incompetent. On the contrary.
That reminds me – we have a bit of a rainstorm coming here – time to put on ‘Levee’ and annoy the neighbours with possibly the best piece of drumming in popular music.
johanna
16 Dec 12 at 1:55 pm
The antidote is the Australian way!
Here, adults are detained by the police for riding a bike to the shop sans helmet.
Detained by the police.
No society should ever allow only the police to own and carry firearms.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 1:58 pm
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics. Is this supposed to convince us it’s OK to live in a society like the US where you know most people around you carry guns and are prepared to shoot first and ask questions later, where depressed and angry individuals are also probably armed and have ready access to military grade weapons, where these threats are in addition to armed gangs and lone crims who are also armed to the teeth.
It’s almost as if you feel you must divert yourselves from the simple statistics we are faced with today – 20 dead little kids – by burying yourself in facts and figures while accusing others – God forbid – of being merely emotional.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:02 pm
.
But John any civil society is perforce subject to constraints – even in Iron Age villages people were subject to cultural rules and the headship of the village chief or they got chucked out. Today we have the rule of law, a police force, customary rules of civilised behaviour that make it possible for large numbers of people to live in peace side by side. It is only the degree to which we are subject to rules and laws that is under discussion surely.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:08 pm
Kate Moss smoking is amongst Marie Claire magazine’s 10 Controversial Catwalk Moments.
Smoking on the catwalk quelle horreur!
nilk
16 Dec 12 at 2:09 pm
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics.
Well, we both feel differently on how to react to this issue. How else are we going to say “this is how we should deal with this matter because the evidence says it will work”.
I wouldn’t be happy to live in a society that formulated policy based solely on emotional and whim of the moment, because it leads to crap outcomes. And I have kids and they’re the centre of my life.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:11 pm
Come, come, CL. You don’t expect the police to get out there and catch criminals, do you? They might get hurt.
Let me guess, that happened in Victoriastan.
nilk
16 Dec 12 at 2:14 pm
Interestingly, if 20 children were killed by a Hamas rocket in Tel Aviv, the Australian left couldn’t care less.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 2:14 pm
This US town basically has no connection to the nation. It’s Canada through and through.
Wikipedia for the map.
I wonder if the economy is based on tax arbitrage on smokes and booze?
Actually it doesn’t seem like it is…
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 2:18 pm
But John any civil society is perforce subject to constraints – even in Iron Age villages people were subject to cultural rules and the headship of the village chief or they got chucked out.
That doesn’t mean they had could living standards or achieved their potential. As human beings lifted their condition from the mud to the stars human, there was were two main themes:
1. Human beings turning to reason over the other means of making decisions e.g. using statistics rather than emotions or religion or luck
2. A move away from village blanket rules to ones of individual rights, privacy and individual choice.
If we hadn’t of done these things we’d still be living in grass huts sacrificing virgins to the volcano god.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:18 pm
The US murder rate is now lower than at anytime in the last 50 years. Crime rates outside of black neighbourhoods and cities are plummeting and yet the US has been on a decade long gun buying splurge.
I would have thought statistics are quite useful in arguing that gun ownership is not causing a murderous spree across the US. The exact opposite is in fact happening.
The massacre of those children is a heartbreaking tragedy. If we want to prevent such things from happening again we’d be safer identifying socially awkward loners and locking them all up than outlawing guns.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 2:18 pm
Oh spare me!
I dawdle in for a look and the first body I trip over is Numbers the Courageous, yet again giving his life (this time as a renowned brave expert marksman – ummm – self proclaimed) to educate the ignorant with his expertise as a uniformed warrior on the gun issue.
If it had been a knife killing he might well have regaled us with unverifiable tales of his swordmanship. On horseback.
It was a touch over 9 months in Vietnam as I recall, which endowed him with his delusional omniscience (certainly not “a couple of years”, nice sleight of hand there).
If I wanted a discussion about guns with Vietnam blokes I’d speak to the several mates who were regular soldiers and airmen for 40 odd years (with multiple appearances at the Asian Games of the ’60s and other places since) who would, I venture, back away slowly from Numbers and head for the bar even if it wasn’t their shout, for fear of catching something snarlingly nasty.
I’ll escape his presence too and head over to the surf club to have a beer with them, good blokes all and a couple whose sons have also served in dangerous places.
I can assure you they are nothing at all like Numbers.
Mick Gold Coast QLD
16 Dec 12 at 2:22 pm
Interestingly, if 20 children were killed by a Hamas rocket in Tel Aviv, the Australian left couldn’t care less.
Ain’t that the truth.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:22 pm
I recall the Arizona shooter was pretty much known as a crazy, the school shooter seems to have been pegged as an odd bob, can anyone recall the cinema shooter?
Was he odd as well or merely “kept to himself”?
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 2:23 pm
Nobody is talking about outlawing guns. Just a basic reform like keeping assault weapons off gun supermarket stores would seem a commonsense and reasonable move. But in America they take the notion of an armed citizen militia at the ready seriously and any self respecting militia needs automatic weapons don’t you know.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:31 pm
Numbers,
What company and battalion did you serve in, in Vietnam?
I would mind betting it was D&E platoon at HQ 1ATF.
John Comnenus
16 Dec 12 at 2:33 pm
It’s interesting to note that the proponents of unfettered gun ownership always seek to overwhelm with masses of statistics. Is this supposed to convince us it’s OK to live in a society like the US where you know most people around you carry guns and are prepared to shoot first and ask questions later…
This is low-grade trolling and childish at that. No one on this site is proposing or defending unfettered gun ownership. And, no, the US for the most part doesn’t involve a society where most people around you are carrying guns, and nor are they prepared to shoot and ask questions later.
dover_beach
16 Dec 12 at 2:34 pm
School shooters seem to be young, male, white, middleclass socially isolated or angry, on some sort of drugs, but how can you pick which one will tip over the edge.
candy
16 Dec 12 at 2:37 pm
I have to say, having watched Obama’s ‘emotional’ response to the tragedy, it reminded me a lot of William Hurt’s contrived tears in Broadcast News.
Earlier this year he vetoed a bill that would have banned the abortion of little girls.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 2:38 pm
Thanks, Mark, for the work you put into the post at 1.46pm. Very useful.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 2:38 pm
School shooters seem to be young, male, white, middleclass socially isolated or angry, on some sort of drugs, but how can you pick which one will tip over the edge.
And why do they target schools?
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:40 pm
I agree.
I see mother owned the guns and didn’t properly secure them from the nutcase son – therein lies the most cogent cause of the deaths. They could charge her for “irresponsibility” but she was shot dead too.
The whole thing feeds the “I don’t like guns so no-one else is allowed to own them” lobby who will trot out whatever doctored stats suit them and then declare “Shut up – just shut up!!!” to the opposition argument.
Tim Blair’s second last link (denoted “Here are two”) details four successful interventions by armed strangers in similar shootings which were NOT reported accurately by the mass media.
The enraged commenters here who just do not like guns, armed with misinformation, forget to ask the fundamental question about their primary source “Why would the mass media be any less dishonest in reporting on gun control mattters than on any other issue?”
Mick Gold Coast QLD
16 Dec 12 at 2:40 pm
Just a basic reform like keeping assault weapons off gun supermarket stores would seem a commonsense and reasonable move.
Sorry, Viva, but last I looked Maceys or JC Penny’s wasn’t stocking semi-automatic weapons.
dover_beach
16 Dec 12 at 2:44 pm
Viva
Serious question.
What is an ‘assault weapon’? Tah is a made-up emotive term commonly used by hoplophobes.
What do YOU mean by it when you use it?
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 2:44 pm
A society run solely on the basis of statistics would be a very efficient, smoothly running … dystopia.
Data and information does not necessarily equate with wisdom or those inexpressible things known only in the heart – the wellspring of all creativity and love.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:44 pm
Tah=That
Service is very spotty, get the ‘I am broken’ message about half the time.
CL:
Absolutely. One reason the British police originally carried only whistles and a truncheon was to attract the attention of the armed law-abiding citizenry, who would then rush to assist the Policeman. The British police did not need guns back then, because the responsible citzenry was armed.
Now the British Polcie do armed patrols in some numbers in parts of the west end, and are routinely outgunned by the immigrant gangs!
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 2:49 pm
A society run solely on the basis of statistics would be a very efficient, smoothly running … dystopia.
Data and information does not necessarily equate with wisdom or those inexpressible things known only in the heart – the wellspring of all creativity and love.
Viva, a country run using your improved approach would be a living hell. Laws don’t make society. We put objective law in place so we have enforceable rules to live by and individual rights are protected from the mob. Then we build our culture and our wellbeing in civil society to build things like “the wellspring of all creativity and love”. People like yourself want the former to deliver the latter, and it can’t do it.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:50 pm
The type of weapon developed for military use in which cartridges allow for fast repeat fire and rapid reloading. The terminology is in common use. Another term is automatic or semi-automatic weapons. It is a purely descriptive term.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:50 pm
In this case, there were red flags everywhere, Candy:
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 2:50 pm
The unarmed British Bobby is the biggest myth going. In any city the unarmed Bobbies are followed around by a guy with a sub-machine gun.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 2:56 pm
Laws are not just based on objective facts – they reflect society’s values. If, for example, euthanasia becomes legal, I think you will find that would have a sizeable impact on society one way or another.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 2:59 pm
spoken like someone who prefers “feelings” to facts, especially when the facts do not support your worldview.
on another note:
The 5 most influential data visualizations of all time
Will
16 Dec 12 at 3:01 pm
Anyway, life is too short and this is absorbing it. And it’s Christmas.
I’ll solve this issue along with the rest of the world’s problems after New Years.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
John Mc
16 Dec 12 at 3:01 pm
It has been reported that she was a gun collector and enthusiast who regularly took her sons to a target range to practice.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 3:03 pm
It seems the murderer took a turn for the worse following his parents divorce. The mother appears to have been “a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement” which explains the arsenal available at the home. Decent account here.
dover_beach
16 Dec 12 at 3:07 pm
Constantly citing statistics can sometimes be equated with not seeing the wood for the trees. But I promise to consult more statistics if you undertake to consult your feelings sometimes – without thinking you are losing your grip lol.
Viva
16 Dec 12 at 3:08 pm
That’s not correct at all. Zep were notorious thieves. Other white blues wannabes credited the songwriters.
No, actually, in an era when people like Magic Sam, Otis Rush, Albert King, Freddie King, Buddy Guy, Junior Watson, Michael Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, Albert Collins, Hollywood Fats, Jimmie Lee Vaughan and many others of clearly superior ability in the blues genre were still working, it is possible to make an objective assessment that Zep, as a blues band, were execrable.
As a turgid, Tolkien influenced, blues rock band, they might win a competition, however.
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 3:56 pm
Abu, they weren’t just a blues band though. In fact, I would say they weren’t even mostly a blues band. Their first album is and it’s actually my least favourite. There was a real diversity in the material they played and whilst Plant’s lyrics weren’t the greatest, I feel the whole package was fantastic.
tbh
16 Dec 12 at 4:05 pm
blogstrop @16 Dec 12 at 8:33 am.
About young people learning to use the road on a motorcycle before using a car.
To me it make sense to learn without distractions. In a car you have lots, everything from phones and friends to air cons and song selections on sound system.
On a bike your total focus is on the road and the other wankers on it.
Road conditions ( eg; a wet road after a dry spell) taken more seriously on a bike.
Some of the ridiculously high BAC readings reported lately by P platers in cars is frightening, on a bike you’d rarely get the stand up and reach the end of the driveway.
Almost zero colateral fatalities, eg pedestrians, passengers…..
And other road road users may accually LOOK for motorcycles on the road, there’d be thousands of them.
They would almost certainly know a few of them, or in time, have been one of them.
No new road rules need be made, the police just enforce the ones we already have.
I struggle to see a logical downside.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 4:11 pm
Abu, like it or not, people vote with their coin.
Sales is the only non-lefty way to rank them.
( feel free to throw elvis, M&M, pink or that lady from India with mega local sales in my face, I care not )
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 4:26 pm
@ Mick Gold Coast
My original comment –
I carried a bloody SLR for a couple of years.
I was issued with an SLR on callup in January 1969. I was discharged in January 1971, after handing my SLR prior to RTA. That adds up to about 2 years. Where’s the “sleight of hand?”.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 4:32 pm
@ Mk50
They weren’t designed and built as target weapons. They are intended to kill. The police are issued with them to protect themselves from armed criminals by shooting these same armed criminals dead. Target pistols are a completely different concept.
False as stated.
You’re referring to the hoary collection of fictitious anecdotes repeated ad nauseum by the gun lobby. They are not backed up by forensic statistics.
False as stated.
Translation – I have a lot of yippee shoots, so I’m special and I know everything. Reminds me of a few gun wankers I’ve met. The amount of ammunition expended grows with the telling. Fishermen do the same.
I hope your “work” doesn’t include anything requiring accuracy.
Innumerable US media reports simply don’t cut it. Most are apocryphal. You need to provide valid statistical data.
Comparisons are not “meaningless”. One interesting comparison is the rate of gun fatalities in each country. In the USA it’s 9 per 100000. In Australia it’s 1.05 per 100000. I can see why you don’t like comparisons.
You need to take your own advice. None of your assertions are substantiated.
Translation – If I throw around a few wankerisms, it might compensate for my lack of common sense and reasoning ability.
I trained on the SLR, the M60, the M16, the Browning and the M72. I carried all of these (except the Browning) at one time or another on active service. That proves nothing one way or another.
I’m not sure what an “init mate” is, but then much of what you’ve posted is equally obscure. Besides, my mates avoid gun wankers.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 4:37 pm
@ • John Comnenus
.
5 Platoon, B Coy, 7RAR.
Just as well you didn’t put money on it.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 4:39 pm
Ah, the Eureka flag. The closest in Australia to putting the Stars and Bars in the back window of your van.
Quentin George
16 Dec 12 at 4:43 pm
If it was 2, why didn’t you say so? Why dissemble?
Why do you use a Gravetar symbol that represents the rebellion of independent capitalist miners against government taxation and oppression? Do you support lower taxes? Do you support government leaving small businessmen alone? Miners who, incidentally, were heavily armed, as was the fashion of the time.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 4:45 pm
Mk @ 1:46pm.
In a word, magnificent.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 4:47 pm
Interesting comment on Washington Post website –
Something’s really working well for the septics. Must be the NRA.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 4:47 pm
Tbh, I was responding to the misconception that they were a great or even good blues band. Their influence is unquestioned in the cock rock context.
Abu Chowdah
16 Dec 12 at 4:48 pm
The symbol adopted by a bunch of losers pissed off with extortionate taxation.
So why has that staggeringly stupid, syphilitic, morbidly obese coward, AKA the spudpeeler, adopted this symbol?
What a dick head the senile ol’ fairy is.
Beyond parody.
But do feel free to keep demonstrating your indescribable idiocy and insanity, you fucking moron.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 4:51 pm
would you like to give a racial breakdown of those numbers, Numbers? Might shed a bit more light on the problem.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 4:52 pm
.
Now he wants to ban archery, javelin and boomerangs.
FFS.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 4:54 pm
Might as well ask an aardvark to perform advanced calculus.
FFS.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 4:55 pm
Rabz
Dont forget the skinheads and their ska and reggae
I could have sworn I saw your gravatar halfway through this one. Look closely.
You trying to tell us something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZPmWdBWOeQ
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 5:06 pm
I can imagine I could start a great argument as I did last time questioning what was “a few”. But in this case it seems pretty simple. A couple is two. How is that dissembling?
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:08 pm
@Steve C
I’ve noticed something interesting about this site.
If you post something as a statement that offends the orthodoxy, it is labelled, packaged and distorted. Bolt does much the same thing, but is much more skilled. Analysis and logic are avoided like the plague. They’re considered dangerous…..
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 5:14 pm
A couple is two, is true, (such as a male-female pair) but a couple of some thing, in idiomatic use, is more than two.
ref
Its use was clearly an attempt to inflate the extent of service, for whatever reason.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 5:15 pm
Bullshit.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:15 pm
Mr Numbers, “Something’s really working well for the septics.”
It’s the Irish. As Margaret Atwood said somewhere, Canada’s more Scottish, USA’s more Irish, that’s what makes the difference.
one old bruce
16 Dec 12 at 5:17 pm
and the main user of these tactics is numbers, who has yet to give me a racial breakdown on the number of murders in the USA, after breathlessly informing me how many time more it is than here in Oz.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 5:17 pm
Why don’t you learn to read english you fucking moron.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:18 pm
ah yes, he is doing what he accuses others of doing.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 5:19 pm
SteveC, please tell me why numbers did not cite “two” instead used “couple”, despite it requiring an additional tree keystrokes? Is it because “two” looks rather undercooked?
Will
16 Dec 12 at 5:20 pm
Good to see you monitoring my posts closely again Gab.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:20 pm
Well, stevec, after you went to all that trouble of gathering up my comments I thought it best I paid you a little attention that you were screaming out for.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 5:21 pm
Umm, because a couple means two. Except at the Cat, where readers manage to read anything they like in to a comment. It’s called projection. I guess he said a couple because he meant two. Whereas you, as a typical Catallaxian, decided to read something else into it.
The Cat sure looks like the twilight zone at times. I recall my assertion many many months ago that ‘a few’ could mean as few as two, resulted in a discussion that went for days and in fact resulted in a temporary ban for me for thread derailing!
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:25 pm
My English id fine, SteveC, but I suspect your inability to express yourself may be due to some mental problems.
Are you on antidepresants?
Will
16 Dec 12 at 5:25 pm
Get your own breakdown – as if race has anything to do with it.
Red herring….
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 5:25 pm
Another 1 minute response Gab, well done. But I won’t be happy until it is the same minute. Any good stalker could achieve that.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:26 pm
If you bothered to find out, you will find it may have a great deal to do with it.
Much more than access to firearms.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 5:27 pm
Umm, no it’s not. Because you decided to argue that a couple weasn’t two. Probably in absence of any other argument.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:29 pm
@SteveC
You don’t understand. “Couple” was obviously a very cleverly crafted construction, designed to add some ineffible impact to the statement.
You’re obviously not wearing your tinfoil hat…
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 5:29 pm
Make uo your mind, SteveC. First you want my attention and then you don’t. You’re so fickle.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 5:29 pm
Will, give it up dude, couple=two.
There are worse things to consider, like 1735099 had an influence on children, sanctioned by the government.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 5:30 pm
Sorry, Jump. Boomerangs are protekted artifakts so can’t be taken away.
Unless you’re not a protekted artifakt yourself, that is.
nilk
16 Dec 12 at 5:38 pm
I’m happy now, that was the same minute.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 5:43 pm
I actually reject Number’s premise, which is that men are insensate beasts, liable to murder once given access to a ‘killing machine’.
His use of that emotive term also betrays a fabulist ‘magical outcomes’ view, clearly stated in this remarkably stupid comment:
What’s so truly infantile about this statement is the repeatedly expressed view that the tool is responsible for the action. Can handguns kill? of course. So can a screwdriver. Who is responsible if either is misused to murder? Well, the law and common sense says that the murderer is. Numbers has repeatedly shown that he does not believe this at all – the gun is responsible in his ‘magical thinking’ view.
Statistics – see here, where I get my data relating to the US from. One interesting thing is the decline in murders in all teh firearms categories at a time when gun ownership has expanded dramatically in that country. (Crime in the USA 2010 Expanded table 8)
You have 2 years of military experience over a generation ago. I have well over 30, ongoing. That you use such terms indicates that you normally use your small amount of service long, long ago as a tool to claim authority and obtain cachet in your leftist circles.
It cuts no ice here, and certainly none with me. You are, after all, a short-service amateur.
“If you were such a patronising moron, no wonder you were regarded as an idiot (that’s from a few of your unit-mates BTW).”
FTFY (are you really so dull as not to be able to glance and a QWERTY keyboard and work that out?)
it would be interesting to see you at Belmont range, your reactions to how crowded it is these days, and to how many young people and children are taking up the sport would be fascinating.
But I think the loud bangs would frighten you too much.
Hoplophobes, they are truly pitiful cases.
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 5:48 pm
Will: See here for a race-based breakdown of US crime. Essentially, the welfare-ruined black community in that country is responsible for vastly disproportionate amount of the crime, and especially the serious crime.
Blacks are only 13.1% of the US population (see here) but are responsible for 48.7% of the murders, 31.8% of the rapes, and 55% of the robberies.
So much for Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ claptrap.
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 5:56 pm
Mother Jones has some excellent and calmly argued articles on mass shootings in America.
This one, for example, shows the increasing rate of fatalities and injuries from then since 1982.
I mentioned the most important fact yesterday – it has been ignored by the “just shut up” crowd, who have run into their coward’s castle of “how dare you seek to disarm the law abiding citizen” and “but cars kill more people – why not ban cars?”:
Surveys indicate that, as appears in this most recent incident, gun ownership is actually not spreading across households but intensifying in those that really love their guns.
Pathetic Australians like IT think this funny and/or justified: that the nutty Right’s reaction to both elections of Obama has been to buy more guns.
If I were American this is what I would be saying:
“Yes, I want tighter gun control. I don’t live in a dangerous neighbourhood and I know to avoid them, where (I agree) black on black killings are a serious issue. But I know where one of the biggest random dangers to me and my family comes from – you, the Right wing gun loving nutter – it’s your guns I’m worried about, and I want less of them out there. And don’t give me the bullshit that it would better if every teacher were armed, or every person attending a cinema. Normal people don’t want to live in a society bristling with guns outside of wartime.
You’re living in a fantasy world, and it is you who are the dangerous and incredibly immature ones. The Right never used to be crazy like this. Grow up.”
steve from brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 6:10 pm
People who want to shoot people will get guns even if all guns are banned. Disarming law abiding citizens only invites more shootings.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 6:17 pm
Now that numbers has been filleted into as many little pieces as his ID. he can just crawl away and stop being a museum display of aged cantankerous delusion.
He could have quit while he was just a casual drive-by troll, but had to go on and become a casebook study all on his own.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 6:18 pm
Then there’s SfB, his casebook now has “a couple” of volumes, and will expand to a whole shelf the way he prattles with gay abandon.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 6:20 pm
A firearm is a tool of metal composites (and sometimes) wood.
By itself it is harmless.
When used as intended (and don’t tell me firearms aren’t designed to kill and maim) it is far from harmless. Given that unless you intend to cull large chunks of the human race (those considered, for reasons – like race advanced here – as unsuitable) you have to manage the combination of firearms and people. When that fails, the results are catastrophic.
If all other factors remain immutable, reducing the number of freely available firearms would reduce the number of fatalities involving them. The clearest correlation in the statistics is the relationship between the number of freely available firearms and the rate of homicides and suicides.
As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, you could reduce the road toll to zero by eliminating the ownership of motor vehicles.
The social and economic impact of this would be unacceptable.
The social and economic impact of limiting access to firearms would not be unacceptable expect to those who have an agenda. These agendae vary. In the case of those making a living out of manufacturing and selling firearms, the agenda is plain.
There exists in the USA (and to a lesser extent here) a culture that conflates gun ownership with a narrative embedded in freedom, independence, and macho posturing. It is anachronistic in a community that is no longer a frontier society.
It is largely gratuitous and unnecessary. It would not be missed.
These are the only aspects of the issue that are of relevance.
To quote Killias’ international research –
The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the
results of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first
International Crime Survey.31 Substantial correlations were found between gun
ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread
gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events
committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other
potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more
guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 6:23 pm
Hey blogstrop
4:11pm
A more constructive topic revived.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 6:23 pm
Thanks MK50.
The data shows that, if you remove the african-american crime stats, the homicide rate is indistinguishable from most western countries, despite the right to bear arms.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 6:27 pm
@ Steve from Brisbane
You’re not discussing this with “the Right”, Steve.
These are crazies from central casting. If they were any further Right, they’d be coming out the other side….
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 6:28 pm
Mother Jones is mindless propoganda and has no credibility.
SoB you are a fool for posting it.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 6:30 pm
Always teh left resort to abuse when absent of a coherent argument.
Also, if you think we are “crazies” then what are you doing mixing in around here? The company you keep says more about you.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 6:33 pm
and you know this how? SoB?
if I live in an armed society, I want to be armed. A conceal carry society is a very polite place to be.
A society which bans guns and where only some, such as criminals have access to firearms, is a very dangerous place to be.
Banning guns does not eliminate gun crime.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 6:36 pm
Total fiction.
Compare the statistics for firearm suicides and homicides for the USA (by your definition an armed society) and Australia (by your definition a country where only some, such as criminals, have access to firearms).
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 6:39 pm
Jump – you may have some good points about defensive driving, but:
“Almost zero colateral fatalities, eg pedestrians, passengers…..”
There have been car drivers killed by side impact from a bike running a red. I knew someone who went that way. I’d get a bike again myself but for the feeling of vulnerability and consideration for the wife’s feelings.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 6:41 pm
Numbers, you really haven’t been paying attention.
I will ask again, what is the racial breakdown of the USA stats?
(Hint for slow learners, go back through the thread to Mk50′s post on this)
Will
16 Dec 12 at 6:51 pm
FFS, is the staggeringly stupid, syphilitic, morbidly obese commie coward, AKA the spudpeeler, still turning up here to be thrashed into ever smaller gibbets?
How the fuck does it get through a day without causing itself fatal harm, the lobotomised ol’ fairy?
A
caseconference study, it would seem.Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 6:52 pm
The simple fact is that we have a culture that glorifies mass murder and serial killing.
What you glorify, you get.
There’s really nothing more to it than that, and the endless “wondering” and bewildered analysis of this kind of event is irritating.
Anyone who has sat through an entire episode of Criminal Minds, Dexter, or The Sopranos has engaged with this aspect of culture; anyone who’s watched a documentary on Manson or Bundy or whoever is equally immersed. The fact that we all know these arseholes names (including their middle name if they have a middle name) tell you everything you need to know.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 6:54 pm
blogstrop,
I did say almost.
How many innocents are killed by car drivers compared to motorbikes? Obviously many more.
There is an addition to ” the fatal four ” too.
http://www.qt.com.au/news/fatal-four-upgraded-five-christmas-road-campaign/1655662/
As entry level motorists are high school students, the congestion levels around schools would reduce a lot too.
Riding a motorbike has made me a better driver, I think that’s true for all motorcyclists.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 6:55 pm
ffs don’t talk about the US and race unless you know what the fuck you’re talking about. Stats out of context are no use at all. That’s basically kids playing with matches.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 6:56 pm
fascinated, transfixed, horrified, voyeristic, yes
glorifies? I don’t believe so.
Will
16 Dec 12 at 6:57 pm
Utter Bollocks, Dave.
You’re better than the empty platitudes you’ve written above.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 6:59 pm
Will
16 Dec 12 at 7:00 pm
Gun suicides merely substitute for other methods of suicide.
You are referring to data, not statistics.
If you look at the longitudinal AIC data, there is no correlation between gun laws being liberal and the murder rate. At some times high gun ownership may have discouraged other violent crimes.
The most important factor is better policing methods and higher average sentencing rates since the 1970s.
It sounds like chumming the water to bait up a lefty, but the best time in Australia for a civil society with a low violent crime rate, and gun crime, was in the 1950s, when guns were widespread.
That’s just what the data says.
.
16 Dec 12 at 7:02 pm
I actually dont think you should disarm the general population at all. Its a recipe for repression by governments who think they can control the majority of people rather than act in the best inbterests of the majority of people (but like what they have now in the US and in silly parrot Oz).
Who knows, governments are getting so “sold out” to filthy bribing interest groups every day. Open your eyes and really look at them with their trips, sweeteners, post politics jobs, perks for life etc.
We may one day, need to shoot our way out of the mess, frankly.
A population without guns, and a government with guns, is asking for nothing but trouble and repression. Never thought Id ever hear myself say this (I am no warmonger) but these days I dont trust, or trust less and less, any government.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 7:02 pm
unless you think being on TV is glory
Will
16 Dec 12 at 7:04 pm
Yes, I think it hilarious that a decade lomg gun buying splurge gas seen the homicide rate plummet to th what it was in 1960 and crime rates across the US drop like a stone.
Many more cultural factors for the crime rate dropping are probably at play, but according to you the increasing number of guns should have resulted in more homicides.
So in short: Record numbers of guns are being bought and an unprecedented drop in the homocide rate is occurring at the same time.
p.s Steve, I am glad you are ant-guns, as someone who is as prone to emotional meltdowns as you are probably shouldn’t be near them.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 7:05 pm
No, it does not.
Again, this is a staggeringly stupid, simplistic statement.
We know about them because we want to avoid them, or at best be able to recognise the archetype and possibly prevent their atrocities.
Not good enough – and I say this as someone who narrowly avoided that idiot at Strathfield.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:05 pm
And what i say aint got nothing to do with any lefty righty war which some in here like Dot think is still going on. Its more a war against corruption of government and the people who are governed but dumby Dot still thinks its all a left right war.
While you are sidetracked Dot (and people like you – fighting wars that dont exist)
you are hopeless at correcting anything.
I will stay tuned for the “fuck off Alice” and reference to my apparently “fake career”.
Come on Dot. I know you will bite. So bite.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 7:06 pm
bullshit.
Its nothing but prurient interest, and these guys get huge bags of mail in prison.
staggeringly stupid?
Fuck you.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:08 pm
SfB QC and spudpeelera identity fraudster in the one thread. Wonderful.
Tiny Dancer
16 Dec 12 at 7:08 pm
That’s not the experience ub Australia. That said, the “Bowling for Columbine” doco compared USA and Canada which have similar gun ownership rates, and vastly different gun death rates. The problem appears more cultural than simply numerical analysis of gun possession.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 7:08 pm
IT
The US gun stats are always going to be skewed because of the pitiful “war on drugs”.
Even Michael frigging Moore contends there are cultural factors (his are bogus).
Canada, just over the border/great lakes, has more liberal gun laws than the US and enviable general violent crime and gun crime stats.
.
16 Dec 12 at 7:09 pm
The fact is that it is commonplace to watch shows about serial killers for entertainment. It’s glorified.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:10 pm
Yes, it is.
1970s.
Post 2003 in NSW re handguns.
.
16 Dec 12 at 7:10 pm
That’s functionally indistinguishable from glorification.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:11 pm
Hit a nerve, have I?
I’d rather be able to identify a potential psychopath than be a victim of one.
Again, this is a lesson learned from bitter experience.
My sister taught some of the young people who were massacred at Strathfield.
Fuck You.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:13 pm
Then of course there is Dexter the “good” serial killer, because he only serially kills bad guys! What fun! Let’s watch him in action all day.
Hoorah!
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:14 pm
I seriously regret giving my husbands gun to the police in an amnesty hand in ten or more years ago.
I didnt want it in the cupboard when I had a six year old to raise and hubby was being stubborn about it.
Now I want that gun back.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 7:15 pm
That’s great, but that’s not the reason people engage with this stuff. The people consuming stuff about serial killers the most are psychopaths, who make up 1 percent of the population. They love that shit.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:16 pm
That looks more accurate to me.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 7:17 pm
Dogshit and his best friend, Dogshit’s Best Friend, are both here creeping out the women as usual and admiring each other’s gabardine raincoats. The left’s sexual perverts continue to carry the banner for the perverts’ government as its chief trolls. They make a fine double act with the communist left’s most deranged fruitcake, who’s infuriated by the unwillingness of the mainstream to use the same extremist language and definitions as the left’s fruitcake government, which is attempting to permanently change Australia into the world’s first Marxist democracy since Allende’s Chile. The old commo troll reminds the middle class what a disaster this ultra-left regime has been, bringing the mentally deranged out of the shadows, and why they will never make the same mistake again.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 7:18 pm
Having said that I’d rather be able to identify a potential psychopath than be a victim of one, I have absolutely no interest in psychopaths.
That they are intrinsically repulsive goes without saying.
There are better things to do in life than wade into the miasma inhabited by society’s losers.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:18 pm
No, I don’t like being gratuitously insulted when I turn up and offer a sincerely held opinion on a very emotional and raw topic.
Maybe you’re a bit tetchy because I gave Gab a hard time about her hypocrisy regarding SfB.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:18 pm
What rank hypocrisy and filth. You have the mind of a sewer rat, Tom.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:20 pm
You see hubby was pretty handy with a baseball bat when he was young and used to spring into action if he heard a strange sound in the night and reach for his baseball bat behind the bed. It was very comforting.
But now he sleeps through any noise in the night and I am not so sure he could swing the bat as well as he once could if ever there was any trouble.
So I would like our gun back just in case so I can protect myself if he sleeps through anything like a home invasion etc
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 7:20 pm
Statistics, as has been pointed out before this, are not a failsafe measure but since the Numerical Numpty persistently raises them in this context without evidence perhaps he can explain how the following fits with his clear correlation:
Total all civilian firearms:
US = 270,000,000
Switzerland = 2,800,000
Honduras = 500,000
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population:
US = 2.97
Switzerland = 0.77
Honduras = 68.43
Not that I necessarily trust the Guardian but the data source seems reliable even though it is missing many of the more interesting Middle Eastern countries such as Yemen which sits between the US and Switzerland for the largest armed population.
Megan
16 Dec 12 at 7:21 pm
Gold, Tom, Gold.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:22 pm
you serious?
That toilet minded arsehole’s verbal farts are not gold.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:23 pm
Dave,
You’ll survive, as will our friendship.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:23 pm
Oh, FFS…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:25 pm
I think I need to ban myself before Sinc does it for me.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 7:25 pm
Just give the angry pills a break, Squire.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:25 pm
Huh? My “hypocrisy”? What the hell is this all about now? Please explain.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 7:30 pm
Oh my, oh my.
He’d better get back on the same page or lose all the largess he is currently spending.
Seriously, comments like this lead Judith Curry to be excommunicated.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 7:31 pm
Daddy Dave is trying to be everyone’s favourite dotty uncle, but just ends up appeasing the scum of the earth. Gutless wonder.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 7:32 pm
Gab,
I’ll explain to you personally, shortly.
Don’t hold it against Dave.
Not at this time of the year.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 7:33 pm
dd
OK but only for a little bit, your thoughts are one of the things i value here.
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 7:33 pm
No, Rabz, dave can account for himself here. thanks anyway.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 7:34 pm
I’m still waiting for your answer, Daddy Dave.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 7:39 pm
@Megan
With pleasure.
Using the study you cited in the guardian, compare the USA with Australia – Homicide by firearm – rate per 100000 – USA – 2.97. Australia – .14. In other words, the rate of homicides in the USA per 100000 people is 21 times the rate in Australia. Average firearm ownership in the USA per 100 people is 88.8. In Australia, it’s 15. Ownership rate in the USA is 6 times that in Australia. The relationship is not linear, but it’s strong and statistically significant.
The study cited in the Guardian does not include suicides, wheras the study I cited does. Both were undertaken by UNDOC.
The inclusion of countries like Honduras is not terribly relevant. You need to compare like with like. Whichever way you cut it, the strongest correlation (considering the literally hundreds of factors that could be considered) exists between proliferation and deaths. As I said above, the challenge is to reduce the prevalence.
How the legislators in the USA can be content with a homicide rate 21 times that of a comparative western society is beyond me.
1735099
16 Dec 12 at 7:40 pm
That’s why no one listens to you now Alice, You are always wrong.
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 7:56 pm
Numbers, Robert or Bob,
Many years ago I commanded B Company 5/7. I know Shane Gabriel who re raised the Pigs.
Anyway I think you are wrong on just about everything.
By the way the US Supreme Court, in dismissing the Chicago or Washington DC guns ban, noted that the worst gun crime rates occur in the locations with the strongest gun control laws.
John Comnenus
16 Dec 12 at 7:59 pm
An innocent person is far more likely to be shot by a police officer than by a licensed CCW holder with a legal weapon. CCW holders with legal weapons are some of the safest people to be around, actually. Unless you’re a criminal (cf your fantasies about helpless housewives getting raped by tradesmen).
And Patio Boy bleats:
but then
Good-oh. Most shootings in the US though are young urban male blacks & hispanics illegally shooting other young male blacks & hispanics with illegal guns. Take them out of the mix and the gun homicide rate in the US is about the same as Canada’s.
sdog
16 Dec 12 at 8:00 pm
You’re so full of crap numbers.
Including places like Detroit skews the numbers. Over half of US gun deaths are suicides. (Removing guns merely changes the method of suicide).
No. Suicide by gun is a red herring.
The greatest factor in homicide is unemployment.
.
16 Dec 12 at 8:02 pm
Now that is Gold.
Howdy, John C!
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 8:02 pm
Numbers:
What an ill-educated leftard you are!
As simplified as it is possible to be so there is a 0.05% chance of the poor dull, stupid, uneducated Numbers-bogan comprehending some small part of it:
1. The founders of the US Republic were classically educated and had very carefully studied the reasons the Roman Rebpublic died.
2. They realised that the primary reason was the ability of a tyrant to take over and impose ‘big government’ which removed the freedoms of the Roman citizen, transformed him from a yeaman farmer into a welfare mendicant and caused government to absorb so much revenue that the state collapsed.
3. They applied all this to their own situation as a part of the First British Empire.
4. They came to understand that the right to revolution has to be guaranteed. Therefore, the US Constitution is meant to guarantee that armed revolution against the US government by US citizens is not only legal but required should it become a tyranny.
5. To this end, a Federal regulation was passed making all males a member of the Federal Militia at majority (21 years of age).
6. This Federal Militia is the ‘duly constituted militia’.
7. it was then put into their constitution that it was illegal to in any way infringe the right of American citizens to own and bear infantry weapons.
8. The intent is very clear, all men are part of the duly constituted Federal Militia and all are supposed not only to possess infantry weapons but to use them against the government in legally mandated revolt should it become a tyranny.
So, you utter cretin, Numbers, you think this is ‘gratuitious’ and ‘would not be missed’. It is at the very core of what an American is. This is how they and their country are built and defined.
Hmm. Who to believe: those towering giants John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington… or Numbers, the short-service amateur leftard loser of Toowoomba?
Decisions, decisions….
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 8:02 pm
Splato – at the time i was right.
But you have never been a mother have you? So what would you know? Kids and guns dont mix.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:03 pm
Anyway, regardless of the emotionalism and knee-jerk “BAN THEM! BAN THEM! BAN THEM!” responses of so many totalitarian-minded Leftists, America is never going to trash her Constitution to suit you.
Get over it.
sdog
16 Dec 12 at 8:04 pm
Sure.
You have no problem with the so-called “rules for trolls” (which encourate viciousness and dishonesty against anyone you suspect of trollery), had no problem with steve being referred to ‘shitfer,’ ‘dogshit’ etc,…. and stood by idly saying nothing when I repeatedly called for more civility.
But then complained because Steve said mean things to you.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 8:06 pm
Dot is on to something here…
“The greatest factor in homicide is unemployment.”
and what are we doing about that? Fuck all – while we all have to listen to the BS that Glen Stevens pumps out from the RBA about “watching out for inflation” BS BS and more BS.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:07 pm
To whom did I complain and when about SFB saying “mean things” to me?
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 8:08 pm
Inflation destroys employment, Alice.
Refer to Okun’s Law. You are creating price shocks for new technologies.
Where has a vertical long term Philips curve ever been upheld?
The US has been trying to create inflation to little avail.
We could get lower unemployment by cutting taxes, egregious Government waste, balancing the budget and abolishing most occupational licensing.
Also remember what John Black said: “Work Choices is gone and now unemployment is structurally higher by 1%”
.
16 Dec 12 at 8:13 pm
Hi daddy Dave how ya doing?
Tal
16 Dec 12 at 8:13 pm
Are you saying otherwise? I don’t have links, but I recall reading several complaints by you about Steve, and his temporary banning was by all accounts due to his treatment of you and Lizzie, although the offending comments themselves will remain forever shrouded in mystery (probably because they weren’t actually that bad).
But look, this is old ground. Let’s move on.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 8:15 pm
just fucking great, mate, thanks Tal.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 8:15 pm
Alice.
Seriously. If this is a concern, look at your state’s regulations.
Please note that ‘self defence’ is not a reason to own a gun: it’s a sport with a large range of reasons to join.
Go and see your local SSAA club, talk it over with the senior Range Safety Officer, get them to show you around.
Then make your decision. It’s a lot of fun, some of the disciplines are very challenging, and it’s not terribly expensive.
Me, I am a conservation hunter. I do my best, with my own money, to keep feral vermin down in order to limit the damage they do to native species and habitat (cats, pigs, foxes, wild dogs, goats, deer in that order). I have been a conservationist my entire adult life (and never, ever a greenie, who are worthless poseurs who never outlay their own money and sweat). I am a bit past heavy landcare work now although I still visit areas my group cleared of noxious weed infestations decades ago.
If you have children, you will find excellent training programs for them, as well as their own competitions at state, national and international level. It is very social. Shooting is an excellent family sport.
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 8:17 pm
Dot says
“We could get lower unemployment by cutting taxes, egregious Government waste, balancing the budget and abolishing most occupational licensing.”
You fucking idiot.
We have been doing that (idiot experiment) for thirty years and its created the mess we atre in.
Like we need fuckwits to keep going wit da bad medecine.
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:20 pm
I give SFB back as good as I get. Part of that is to highlight his hypocrisy when he calls the males on this site misogynists in one breath and then does exactly that which he accuses others to me and other female commenters. I remind him him of his wish to slap me in the face whenever he gets on his “misogynistic” soap box. That it not a complaint for the way he speaks to me. It is showing up his hypocritical ways.
As for his banning, I had absolutley nothing to do with that – and you can ask Sinclair directly. I know I have been blamed for that incident however you -and others- are wrong on that score. I did, however, register my disagreement with Sinclair once I found out why SFB had been banned and told Sinclair that I thought it was unfair. Again, feel free to check with Sinclair.
I have on occassion asked for civility here, however that has been to do with the name-calling directed at monty.
People like you, Dave, who jump to conclusions, often fall flat on their face.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 8:25 pm
MK50
I wouldnt have minded learning to shoot mysaelf (seriously).
I would like to be able to aim for a leg and not actually hit a heart etc. It would be a very useful skill in this day and age. Ive just about had enough of governments. If I was being robbed in my house I know damn well the police may not even get here in half an hour plus etc I could be dead by then.
My kid has grown up but maybe its something he could do. His father could shoot well (they teach them well in the country).
I have no moral objection to guns (and increasingly think we should be permitted to carry arms as well like the US citizens).
Alice
16 Dec 12 at 8:27 pm
Come on guys,let’s not fight,please?
Tal
16 Dec 12 at 8:27 pm
You don’t need to be taught to shoot yourself.
Tiny Dancer
16 Dec 12 at 8:29 pm
So you’re saying;
1. Increasing taxes
2. Increasing Government debt
3. Increasing Government waste
4. Increasing occupational licensing
…would lower the unemployment rate?
Alice. You’re gonna have to explain the finer points of how your plan works.
So..on top of this, and the Fair Work Act, why do Gillard and Swan preside over higher unemployment rates and lower participation rates that Costello and Howard?
Howard and Costello saw unemployment go under 4% as the participation rate grew, along with real wages.
Please tell us how 1.-4. would help.
.
16 Dec 12 at 8:29 pm
Dave – You have friends, squire, remember that.
However, I can understand your current disgruntledness. Others here run the risk of being insulted.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 8:30 pm
(cats, pigs, foxes, wild dogs, goats, deer in that order).
Do you mean that list to be the most damage in descending order? Or the species you target?
Are feral cats that prevalent?
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 8:30 pm
Hi ya Rabz, I sent you a Chrissy drinks invite – one coming your way by email Daddy.
Like the music.
I forgot to mention one of my all time favorites Died Pretty – great albums Free Dirt, Lost Every Brilliant Eye. So many great songs and albums.
John Comnenus
16 Dec 12 at 8:33 pm
Hey,ease up
)
Oh, just in case anyone wants to ask ” How was golf today Jump?”
I would say ” Shit hot actually,..well…,14 from 18 hole anyway, thank for asking
jumpnmcar
16 Dec 12 at 8:34 pm
damaging*
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 8:35 pm
They are bloody hard to hit and unbelievably tough.
I seriously reckon you need to have at them with a 303 .25 or military grade velocity centre fire rifle rounds, a silencer and night vision goggles.
Yeah, I know that sounds crazy. I’m talking if you want to wipe the buggers out.
They are smart and they are tough. We clipped one with a .22 when it got blinded by out lights. We went to finish it off.
I insisted someone bring over a shotgun. No, don’t listen to him, he’s not a regular hunter…
If you don’t have rugged footwear or pants, a half dead, scared feral can is not something you really want to step on.
3 more body shots from close range and one more into the brain case.
It was dropped, finally, but it was still making noises (yes, not for long).
Chasing them around with a ute and spotlight and a .22 250 seemed like really hard work. I remember many more like that.
They make foxes seem to be as dumb as sheep.
.
16 Dec 12 at 8:36 pm
Prof Bunyip if you are reading this post,Merry Christmas(I’m sure it will be bitter sweet) and Happy New Year xxx
Tal
16 Dec 12 at 8:39 pm
Speaking of raincoats. Possibly the most inappropriate album title and cover of all time.
http://www.recordsale.de/cdpix/r/rod_stewart-an_old_raincoat_wont_ever_let_you_down(vertigo_.jpg
sdfc
16 Dec 12 at 8:40 pm
Ah, now we see the reason for assault weapons* – feral cats.
Works for me. Anything to wipe those vermin out.
*I am not a gun person, so by assault weapon I mean those guns that self load and shoot lots.
nilk
16 Dec 12 at 8:41 pm
It’s the only way to live…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 8:42 pm
Why is that Alice? were you afraid your husband was going to use it on you or your six year old? Or were you afraid that the six year old would have shot himself accidently?
If it was the later surely your hubby would have had the sense to store it properly and secure the bolt and ammo seperately?
Guns and kids can mix given the right instruction and parental guidance.
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 8:44 pm
fair enough Gab.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 8:46 pm
“I did, however, register my disagreement with Sinclair once I found out why SFB had been banned and told Sinclair that I thought it was unfair.”
Glad to hear it.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 8:46 pm
Yes, you were another one that blamed me a week or so ago and I recall telling you at the time that I did not complain to Sinclair nor did I ask him to ban SFB. But obviously it fell on deaf ears then.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 8:49 pm
“Fair enough”?? a freaking apology from you in the first instance would have been “fair enough” in my book. Clearly that never occurred to you.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 8:51 pm
“4. They came to understand that the right to revolution has to be guaranteed. Therefore, the US Constitution is meant to guarantee that armed revolution against the US government by US citizens is not only legal but required should it become a tyranny.
5. To this end, a Federal regulation was passed making all males a member of the Federal Militia at majority (21 years of age).
6. This Federal Militia is the ‘duly constituted militia’.
7. it was then put into their constitution that it was illegal to in any way infringe the right of American citizens to own and bear infantry weapons.”
This is all well and good, but the fact is that no militia, however well-regulated, has a hope in hell of overturning a modern tyrannical US government.
For that matter, I’d be surprised if the suppression of any group that rose up in rebellion would stretch the resources of just the local law enforcement.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 8:57 pm
“Yes, you were another one that blamed me a week or so ago ”
No, I never did. I knew Sinclair had done it on his own – I blamed him.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 8:58 pm
No Alice I have never been a mother but I have had a mother who was very wise and allowed my father to teach me firearm safety from an early age. I joined cadets in high school and then went onto do military service. Now I am a father I am instilling into my children the same practical instruction that has held me in good stead all these years.
I would say I know a lot more than you and your moronic husband who in your opinion was such a threat to your son’s safety that you had to surrender his firearm for him.
Why do you think only mothers care about children’s safety? Misandry alert!
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 8:58 pm
You hypocritical dirtbag.
Too little, too late and not fucking good enough.
Oh – and learn how to use the fucking block quote function, you stupid piece of excrement.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 8:59 pm
Beautifully explained, Mark. Only when the left stops squealing and demanding disarmament, accepts the philosophical wisdom of the Constitution and agrees to work within it does workable gun control become available. But that would require adult negotiation, which I can’t see happening.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 9:01 pm
And that, to me, is the end of it. Good on you Gab, you are a star, and I think you always give fair riposte.
Stevie is a sad case who gets over-snipey at times.
I think he is lonely. He must be to write up his blog all the time, when no-one is interested in his ruminations on various things. There’s a ‘boring’ priest in Father Ted who is the epitome of someone who can’t shut up and thinks he is interesting. Salutory for Stevie. Now this gives Stevie his chance to have a go at me. Atta boy!!
But Da Hairy Ape has just cooked his special steak and I am on notice. And how.
I visited Stevie in his lonely little blog when he was banned because I felt he might need cheering up and have never asked for his banning. He does make an effort to contribute in a contrary sort of way. I was glad when Sinc changed his mind but sent no emails. Up to Sinc.
It’s not too bad having him around here. We can cope.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
16 Dec 12 at 9:03 pm
Sorry, but there’s no sensible defence of SfB. Just because he’s familiar doesn’t make him acceptable.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 9:04 pm
“You hypocritical dirtbag.”
Get a grip, moron. Preferably of a dictionary, so you know what the words you’re trying to use actually mean.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 9:07 pm
It’s not hard to shoot yourself.
;/
kae
16 Dec 12 at 9:12 pm
Gab spoke up for Steve – as did several others.
Sinclair Davidson
16 Dec 12 at 9:14 pm
Don’t do it Alice call Lifeline if you feel that way.
If you do overcome your suicidal thoughts Alice you could join a rifle club and they can teach you. In the meantime my advice for you would be to aim for the heart and you will surely shoot low and hit the leg anyway. Not that that is any guarantee to inflict a non life threatening wound. If you hit an artery it’s much the same as a heart only slower and more painful.
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 9:14 pm
I stand by my statement that our culture glorifies violence.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 9:18 pm
dd – you make that sound like a bad thing. We are the dominant species on the planet – the propensity for violence had a large role to play in that. As does our position at the top of the food chain.
Sinclair Davidson
16 Dec 12 at 9:24 pm
“Gab spoke up for Steve – as did several others.”
Ideally, there would be a set of well-understood rules that dictate what behaviour is acceptable on this blog and what is not, with clearly defined consequences that are not subject to whim or popular outcry.
Instead we have a magical mystery tour of inconsistent and at times contradictory rule by diktat.
This is a choice for the powers that be, but since the choice has apparently been made, can we dispense with the obsolete and frankly misleading rules page?
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 9:26 pm
Jarrah – there are a set of well-understood and well-known rules. You seem to be the only person who can’t work that out.
Sinclair Davidson
16 Dec 12 at 9:28 pm
Oh, we’re all for rules now. Thanks, Jarrah. What an insight.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 9:28 pm
Dads,I know what you are trying to put forward
Merry Christmas to you and yours darl xxx
Tal
16 Dec 12 at 9:28 pm
Not just our culture but many other cultures also.
Quite easy to see that our cutlure does focus on violence. Go to the cinema, play an xbox game, read a novel, watch the news. The majority of people however, do not pick up a gun and go on a killing spree.
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 9:29 pm
“I stand by my statement that our culture glorifies violence.”
Well, i think boys from young tender age playing graphic violent video games unsupervised/uncaring parents must lead to desensitisation.
Perhaps could be just one factor out of a multitude to explain the massacres?
To kill little children – perhaps they are just objects to the shooter, like in a video game.
candy
16 Dec 12 at 9:29 pm
No, Candy, they are the objects of supreme affection that must be destroyed by the twisted mind, because they are so valuable to those you want to damage. This is how the frootloop mind works.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 9:33 pm
dd there is a group who share a novel approach to stamping our violence and war. They are for peace.
I was going to join online but after a rather athletic display of solidarity my RSI flared up again and I couldn’t type.
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 9:34 pm
candy Japan had a spate of blokes going gory in kindergartens and primary schools for a while. I’m not sure what to conclude on that but at least it seems to have stopped now.
Knives not guns, of course.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 9:35 pm
oops sorry http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 9:37 pm
I disagree that violence per se is the reason for the success of the human race. plenty of animals are violent. Cats are a great example that are close to home.
But ‘violence’ is too vague and general to be of use to let me be more specific. Our culture glorifies murder.
For example (there are so many), what the hell is the crime series “Underbelly” about, other than an orgy of indulgence in tough guys killing each other.
dd
16 Dec 12 at 9:38 pm
Splat, your punishment for that interjection is to read SfB’s blog until the end of the month.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 9:39 pm
I heard about a blended family wherein there was an 8 year old and a toddler.
The 8 year old was found to be strangling his toddler sibling.
When asked what he was doing he said he was killing her, but that’s okay, because after he kills her she will be ok.
I’m not saying that this is a normal thought for a child, but that child shouldn’t be playing video games or seeing violent games as he doesn’t know the difference between reality and the games/cartoons.
kae
16 Dec 12 at 9:40 pm
My theory is the shooter was jealous of his mother’s attention directed at her pupils. (I watch too much Criminal Minds etc).
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 9:41 pm
I’ve never watched Underbelly, dd, but I can fantasize about bearing arms for my country against the unspeakable forces abroad in the world. Unfortunately I’m beyond recruitment age now, but there may be something a partially fit duffer can manage.
blogstrop
16 Dec 12 at 9:43 pm
The rise in popularity of violent video games has occurred at the same time as a huge drop in violent crime. So methinks that can be ruled out.
Lunatics will of course be drawn to that material, but they were lunatics to begin with.
Infidel Tiger
16 Dec 12 at 9:44 pm
did – not sure about that. In Underbelly the violent people are criminals who get caught and punished in the end.
Sinclair Davidson
16 Dec 12 at 9:45 pm
DaveF
Most damaging to least. Densities vary of course. Cats are without doubt the deadliest prdator on natives as the little **** can climb.
Mk50 of Brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 9:51 pm
Except that she wasn’t actually a teacher at that school.
She had been an occasional relief teacher, but packed that in after her divorce to be a full-time carer for her disturbed, mentally ill son.
Almost everything the mainstream media initially reported turned out to be wrong.
sdog
16 Dec 12 at 9:53 pm
heh. Then clearly I don’t pay enough attention to the profilers, Spot
Btw, Criminal Minds should never be watched while eating dinner!
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 9:55 pm
DD
Stepford deserves far far more than a ban
He deserves the rack
So does the other steves
Stop sticking up for these dopes. They wreck this blog
Jc
16 Dec 12 at 9:57 pm
Wow
Just had a great calimari lunch in a place called chapmans peak hotel
Absolutely delicious.
Love Cape Town
Thinking of buying a zebra skin for the floor in my office at home
Jc
16 Dec 12 at 10:01 pm
Yes Sinc but there is something in the fact that old movies always had that ending. Movies from the 70′s onwards tend to barrack for the criminal over law and order. In old movies if a cop was killed the gangster always died, now the death of innocent is just collateral damage if the
baddiehero gets to sail off into the sunset with the girl and a bag of money.This Vs This
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 10:02 pm
I’ll take Gab’s word on this over yours every time, you tragic, shrivelled imbecile.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:03 pm
Time to change gravatars.
Winston Smith
16 Dec 12 at 10:06 pm
Absolutely. I hate Led Zeppelin.
The Stones borrowed from the bluesmen but – by contrast – always accredited the originals. Indeed, Jagger and Richards helped BB King, Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf and others stay afloat financially; they opened the Stones’ shows, got a slice of the royalties pie and hit the road to play for the new Stones-influenced white blues aficionados.
Plant and Page were plagiarising assholes.
Here’s Brian Jones introducing Howlin’ Wolf for a live TV performance.
NOBODY sounds like the Wolf. Man oh man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILFjY2mbarg
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 10:07 pm
Dave – you’re falling into a false leftist narrative.
Our ‘kulcha’ no longer glorifies anyhthing, except surrender to other far more loathsome and dare I say it ‘violent’ kulchas than our own.
Much to our detriment.
Acknowledging that Western Culture is the Best is not being waaaaacist, zeeeeexist or ‘violent’.
You’re in a bad place at the moment. Things will get better.
Without any violence.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:08 pm
A t-shirt with those words emblazoned front and centre beckons…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:10 pm
Splatacrobat
16 Dec 12 at 10:10 pm
I don’t agree Sinc. It seems fairly obvious that sfb stepped over some line in your mind, which is not part of the documented rules. My theory is that the comment that tipped you over was sfb talking about Gab leaning her gonads against the bar. The banning accurred shortly after that. Gab very quickly said she had not complained. In the end you are seemingly a social conservative. Anything goes on this blog, except being gratuitously offensive to women. Perhaps you should add that to the listed rules.
SteveC
16 Dec 12 at 10:11 pm
Human cultures have always been violent, but they have also had to find ways to be co-operative within the group and to enable the reproduction and rearing of children, as well as to protect the group from outside predators and raiders and to sanction wrongdoers within.
Anthropology 101 guys.
Gab, my theory is that he hated the world because he couldn’t fit in (autism spectrum?) and blamed his mother for that, probably hated his ‘normal’ brother too, and thus wanted to show her that he could destroy her world, which was dealing with young children. Interesting though that he killed her before the kids, so she didn’t get to know about this hatred (an afterthought – knock them out before doing self in) and I’m sure there was a level of self-glorification in it, video game fantasies etc.
Who knows what the hell Viking Beserkers in the 9th Century had on their minds when they attacked British villages and killed all occupants.
Plus ca change.
Guns aren’t the problem. Loner and probably over-indulged middle-class kids are the issue and need identifying and assisting earlier.
I read ‘We need to talk about Kevin’ – a chilling read which I took off a new mother friend of mine who had enough problems without this on her mind.
I am not into schizophrenogenic mothers, but the dynamics outlined in this novel are interesting, and go wider than psychology and into contempoary cultural politics.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
16 Dec 12 at 10:12 pm
Bugger…
Winston Smith
16 Dec 12 at 10:14 pm
Rock and Roll
Kashmir
Stairway to Heaven
Whole Lotta Love
Black Dog
Dazed and Confused
These are blues song from the deep south?
.
16 Dec 12 at 10:15 pm
Try again…
Winston Smith
16 Dec 12 at 10:16 pm
I might get a picture….
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:18 pm
Alice,
I started a polite discussion with you and you don’t want a bar of it.
Really. We need to talk about your ideas that more waste, more taxes, more Government debt and more occupational licensing are going to bring unemployment down.
Please explain how this will work, or if anyone actually wants that.
.
16 Dec 12 at 10:21 pm
Gee, who’da thunk it?
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:24 pm
My point was about plagiarism – for which Led Zeppelin are notorious – and accreditation; not about the cultual antecedents of the band’s corpus.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 10:24 pm
Yeah, Winston
I like it.
kae
16 Dec 12 at 10:25 pm
This just gets better and better…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:25 pm
Anyhoo, let’s just skip to the Greatest Rock ‘n Roll Band in Human History:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCMrXC8D05Q
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 10:27 pm
Alice is a bit of a statist, but she isn’t afraid to debate in my experience.
I always defend my neighbours.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:29 pm
Led Zeppelin Plagiarism Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M
Watch and learn.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 10:33 pm
For those who have never heard of this book:
We need to talk about Kevin, by Lionel Shriver, Orange Prize Winner.
I didn’t see the film version.
Storyline in the novel is autistic-type kid massacres his family and school ‘friends’, and mother left wondering about her role and that of the father. Nature/nurture stuff.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
16 Dec 12 at 10:35 pm
Good.
So didn’t billions of others…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:37 pm
Led Zep cannot be discussed without the song from TISM.
Which I can’t locate on youtube *shakes fist to the skies*
They call Led Zep out for plagarism anyhow.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:38 pm
I’m not on teh drugs…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:41 pm
Bingo found it.
I’d forgotten the name..
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:43 pm
I never knew who River Phoenix was till that song. Thanks TISM..
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:44 pm
“Jarrah – there are a set of well-understood and well-known rules. You seem to be the only person who can’t work that out.”
There are? Where might I find them? Because they’re not on the rules page, AFAICT. Those listed seem to be anachronistic. None of them explain any of the bans of recent times, for example.
“Oh, we’re all for rules now. Thanks, Jarrah. What an insight.”
It wasn’t presented as an insight, blogstrop, so I don’t know where the sarcasm is coming from. What I’m complaining about is not the lack of rules, but the proliferation of them! And their seeming arbitrariness and lack of clarity.
Which, I hasten to add for those slow of thought, is the right of Sinclair et al. I’m also happy to participate under whatever regime is set up. I just don’t think it’s too much to ask that the rules are explicit.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 10:46 pm
Nah…Shane Crawford for mine.
It grew on me.
.
16 Dec 12 at 10:46 pm
I still don’t know who he is, thanks Beelzebub!
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:47 pm
“I’ll take Gab’s word on this over yours every time, you tragic, shrivelled imbecile.”
That’s because you’re a tribalistic moron who wouldn’t know facts and logic if they sat on his face. The record is public, check for yourself.
Jarrah
16 Dec 12 at 10:49 pm
The Shane Crawford converted these Kiwi friends of mine.
Then they saw the Thunderbird video and were awed.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 10:53 pm
Yes – and it proves you are a tragic shriveled joke.
Although that immutable fact doesn’t need checking.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 10:59 pm
said gillard to Arbib back in 2010..
Gab
16 Dec 12 at 11:00 pm
I am somewhat encouraged by DD’s comments about violence.
I thought I was the only person who couldn’t quite get a grip on how liberal media critics are nearly always completely unconcerned by the increasing depiction of violence and psychopathology as entertainment over the last 40 years.
Slate, for example, will no doubt continue to run many articles sympathetic to increased gun control, yet it also always runs a weekly “Dexter club” to dissect each current episode. Yes, they will sometimes talk about the clever way that the writers are toying with the audience’s sympathy to the main character, but do they ever care now that it may be affecting some real life nutters out there?
I noted at my blog a couple of months back that there are 5 or 6 cases internationally of murderers who claim to have been inspired by the show. This fact seems little known – and if it concerns the makers of the show, it certainly hasn’t interfered with their making a nice living from it.
This, in my opinion, is something people should be worried about, but as I say, you can’t even get liberals to express concern.
I similarly cannot stand Quentin Tarantino for his violent revenge fantasy shtick and cringe when he is lauded for making it “entertaining”.
That parents let 10 year boys play splatter full computer first person shooter games is equally disturbing.
If the current use of media violence as entertainment had been dumped on the public in one hit in (say) 1967 – when the “ground breaking” Bonnie & Clyde did raise real concern about violence as entertainment porn, there would have been sustained outrage.
Instead, it seems to me that it has been a “frog in a slowly heated pan” effect here – it has happened incrementally and no one gives a damn anymore.
I think we should.
steve from brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 11:01 pm
Oh and Lizzie: my blog is like an open diary which other people are free to read, or not. It has for years had the same extremely modest readership, and that has not stopped me running it. The important thing is that I like it – and I do. (Writers are allowed to like their own efforts. It would make no sense if they didn’t. If I was going to be crushed by the lack of wider readership, I would given up about 5 years ago.
steve from brisbane
16 Dec 12 at 11:09 pm
Good point.
C.L.
16 Dec 12 at 11:17 pm
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:17 pm
I don’t think there are all that many violent programs SfB.
I can’t believe Dexter had 8 seasons based on his killer premise, it must have had something more than that to succeed.
Not a big watcher of TV, but I’ll admit I gave up on Boss. The psychological violence got to me.
Zombies, however…
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:22 pm
The ‘readership’ as he so quaintly puts it, being himself and no one else.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:23 pm
I’ve dropped in Rabz.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:25 pm
He also has a very good URL for reselling.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:25 pm
Enough.
You’re sullying the narrative, you blatantly obvious communist homosexual.
And I’m not here to emphasise your positives.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:28 pm
I am confident this is the only thing I will ever agree with you about, Dogshit: Quentin Tarantino is a psychopath and I would never watch one of his films as a matter of principle. Apart from (and separate from) the fact that Hollywood is a captive of the left, it adores psychopaths like Tarantino, who is the successor to Hollywood’s former psychopath-in-residence Sam Peckinpah – and there will be another one after Tarantino’s death. I understand where Hollywood’s psychopathic culture comes from. I also support the philosophical foundation of the Second Amendment (see upthread).
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 11:30 pm
OK Stevie. Your blog, your rules.
Actually, I did like your beer bottle pic (a touch of the Andy Warhol about you there). I hope you and your wide readership enjoyed my comment about the past virtues of Cascade Brewery in Tassie until 1995 offering free morning, noon and arvo smoko time beer breaks for employees (all you could drink in ten minutes flat and I was assured there were some fast drinkers on the payroll).
I thought your readers would enjoy this little anecdote about the happy workers of Tassie before the greenery and nannyism took over.
Rather cheering I thought. Wanted to cheer you up. Bottoms up, Stevie.
Now there’s a double entendre for you to puzzle over. Heaven!!
I aim to please. Always.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
16 Dec 12 at 11:31 pm
open diary = open sewer in your case.
Tiny Dancer
16 Dec 12 at 11:37 pm
The best non insulting insult.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:41 pm
oops:
insulting put down
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:42 pm
Thanks, Dave.
We aim to please.
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:43 pm
fark
non insulting put down*
I give up
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:43 pm
The Wild Bunch was a good movie. Tame by today’s standards of on-screen (or gaming) violence..
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 11:46 pm
The same name exists in the dot-com domain. Dogshit has never had an original idea in his life.
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 11:46 pm
Anyway it certainly didn’t much upset me.
He is on some nice real estate Though. GlobalMail should have asked him. Good name for an “unbiased opinion site”.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:47 pm
What the hell, let’s have a song!
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:49 pm
Celebrate the sparceness!
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:52 pm
I recall someone (Sinc?) recently posting up the last scene from The Wild Bunch?
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 11:52 pm
SfB is on top of the list on Bing.
You buy his site to stop confususion and dilution of the brand in that case.
GlobalMail should have taken over the scratchy looking opiniondominion.com in that case.
Better name. Cheap price.
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:52 pm
that would be the Bunyip, Laz…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:54 pm
Clash?
DaveF
16 Dec 12 at 11:54 pm
Found it. TWB final scene
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 11:54 pm
Best male rock voice in history, Rabzie
Tom
16 Dec 12 at 11:58 pm
But you need to watch the penultimate scene first..
Lazlo
16 Dec 12 at 11:58 pm
Yep!
From this…
Rabz
16 Dec 12 at 11:59 pm
That opiniondominion.com site turned up not long ago. I don’t understand much about this stuff: did it turn up deliberately to annoy me?
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 12:02 am
Keep on running…
Rabz
17 Dec 12 at 12:03 am
2 months ago he started posting SfB. It’s weekly and rubbish.
I doubt it’s competition. But reach out and ask him.
Could be an earner.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:04 am
This should be on the Christmas songs on the front page.
It’s actually a lovely song.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:07 am
A classic Rabz, from SDG. They were great years. How about She’s Not There?
Lazlo
17 Dec 12 at 12:08 am
Rabz
17 Dec 12 at 12:12 am
SfB the US site is FL shonks with WA lawyers/accountants. They are a parking service.
Maybe you did come to their attention…
No more than 500 bucks.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:17 am
He doesn’t own it. Blogspot (Google) does.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:18 am
Rabz
17 Dec 12 at 12:19 am
Sure, he can sell the password
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:20 am
Donovan Leitch must have swallowed a truckload of acid to write Hurdy Gurdy Man. So deep it’s bottomless, man, with the vibrato. Freak me out!
Tom
17 Dec 12 at 12:25 am
It expires in January. Jump in SfB and become a dot com, they won’t pay more fees. It’s yours on 28 Jan at 12. 55 US Eastern.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:28 am
It expires in January. Jump in SfB and become a dot com, they won’t pay more fees I imagine. It’s yours on 28 Jan at 12. 55 US Eastern.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
Sorry about the double.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
He owns his content, and that is all. He doesn’t own the url, or the blogspot real estate. Google does. TOS, item 7:
He could try to buy opiniondominion.com, which has been owned by these peeps for almost two years; set up his own server; then port his material over; then sell that.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:33 am
Yep sdog, but the reality is that you can sell passwords for nice free hosted domains.
The guys who own the namesake site are definitely nameclaimers. They only have 2 years hence my advice they will drop out in January next year.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:38 am
The reality is that this almost never happens, because you’d have to be an idiot to try to illegally buy something you can’t actually own and which, if the true owner (Google) finds out, can be wiped out in a nanosecond.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:47 am
The only thing SfB has to sell is his content. Seriously, who’d buy that?
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:49 am
We need to talk about Kevin, by Lionel Shriver, Orange Prize Winner.
I didn’t see the film version.
I saw it, quite good.
I am somewhat encouraged by DD’s comments about violence.
Me too, and you made some good points yourself. I actually like the Dexter series, but not for the violence and gore. What has disturbed me a little recently has been the proliferation of zombie movies and series which are simply over-the-top when it comes to physical violence and have for the most part no other redeeming feature.
dover_beach
17 Dec 12 at 12:50 am
SkeevySteve.com is already taken, but he could get SkeevySteve.com.au for $14.95.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:52 am
+100
Channel 9 doesn’t keep churning out that Underbelly crap for the artistic merits.
Derp
17 Dec 12 at 12:53 am
No way sdog. No way.
It happens a lot. blogspot and even Facebook have sales – FB is a bit tougher- but I know of dozens of blogspot ones.
Trust is the problem, you have to pay enough to get a legit password.
Forget the terms of business.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:53 am
com.au is a bit harder from memory. You need a registered company or it’s your name to register.
Dicks.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 12:56 am
Ah.
dd’s later post covered that also.
My bad.
Derp
17 Dec 12 at 12:56 am
I quite like Lionel Shriver’s work. “Game Control” is one of her earlier novels that I’d recommend.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 12:57 am
Jeez. I just clicked over to Blair’s post on the CT school shooting, and it already has 179 comments up. That’s unusual for his blog.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 1:03 am
The first was genuinely good. The second was OK.
The rest have been unmitigated crap.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 1:19 am
All bolta’s regulars looking for somewhere to go…
Cold-Hands
17 Dec 12 at 1:23 am
Shoot ‘em all:
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 1:27 am
That Led Zep plagiarism link is dynamite.
I always had the vague idea they plagiarised but wow.
Mind blowing.
Podsnap
17 Dec 12 at 1:28 am
From the Department of No Shit, Sherlock…
Or, What would we do without authorities?
Criminals moving in on asylum rackets.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 1:31 am
Ah, that must be it. Lots of screen names there I don’t recognize.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 1:39 am
Demonstrates that sheer volume of comments doesn’t necessarily make for a better blog. I read through all four pages of them – there’s a lot of nonsense repeated over and over and over.
“How would you feel if it had been one of your children that was killed – I think it would be safer living in Afghanistan than the good old US of A.”
“If the killing of 27 innocent people including young children is not enough to sway you from the unfortunate philosophy of ‘the right to bear arms’, then nothing will.”
“All too frequent repeats of these tragedies won’t stop until the Second Amendment is changed”
“Today’s America of unrestricted freedom to bear arms is not ‘working’. Violence, incarceration rates, murder rates ………..unparalleled disaster.”
“They don’t need to change the second amendment – it needs to be removed completely.”
And that’s just from the first page. Except for some sane interjections from our Infidel Tiger and a few others, it’s a total emotion-full fact-free zone over there.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 1:47 am
Here’s my contribution, FWIW. I really do urge people to read the two articles I’ve linked there. Nick Gillespie in Reason and Jonah Goldberg in the Atlantic. They bring some facts and some adult reasoning to the table.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 1:50 am
Fuck I get sick of these idiotic folksy “wise” “quips”.
I mean if he really thinks that god help him, he’s a total mental failure. But of course he doesn’t think that at all – he’s just talking utterly incredible shovel loads of made up shit to sound oh-so superior. Which unfortunately is par for the course when Australians talk about America (while bizarrely smugly calling them names like rednecks, uneducated, fat etc – the names the rest of the world calls us).
Total lack of self awareness.
twostix
17 Dec 12 at 2:02 am
Reality sdog is SfB’s name has value. Your link was to blogger SEO and his comment was disparaging of selling free sites.
Of course he does.
But you can do it.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 2:03 am
I opened one for the cat…
My password is for sale…
http://cattalaxyfiles.blogspot.com.au/
Damn. one too many ns?
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 2:12 am
Its gone.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 2:14 am
catallaxyfile.blogspot is for sale
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 2:15 am
Well, yes. You can also “sell” the Sydney Harbor Bridge, even though that doesn’t belong to you either.
Seriously, though. You are “selling” something which belongs to Google, in violation of Google’s own TOS. Thus leaving the “buyer” open to all manner of problems. Not least of which would be a demand for more money once the “buyer” really gets settled in there, with the threat of informing on them and having Google shut it down for TOS violations (and confiscate any ill-gotten Google Adsense revenue) if the hapless “buyer” doesn’t hand over more $$$.
I would hope that not too many people would be stupid enough to fall for that.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 2:36 am
Worse, Twostix, it was actually a chick who wrote that. “SusieQ”.
Yes, a free liberal progressive Australian female excitedly bleats that she’d be “safer living in Afghanistan than the good old US of A.”
Oi.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 2:46 am
2dog, know it happens in free games. Good money.
It happens with ebay accounts – small money usually, but I heard of $200.
So its a cert for blogspot. You pay to close it down.
SfB has a good name.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 3:01 am
Michael Gordon interprets the polls.
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 3:28 am
C’mon guys, it’s so much more dangerous being a hipster in Williamsburg or Portland compared to Kabul or Herat. It’s not even worth discussing.
dover_beach
17 Dec 12 at 3:34 am
Rape victims (most recent) by country
# 1 New Zealand: 1.3%
# 2 Austria: 1.2%
= 3 Sweden: 1.1%
= 3 Finland: 1.1%
# 5 Australia: 1%
# 6 United Kingdom: 0.9%
= 7 Netherlands: 0.8%
= 7 Slovenia: 0.8%
= 7 Canada: 0.8%
# 10 France: 0.7%
.
.
.
USA? 0.4%
Let’s face it – you’re just not going to be as bold in going around and using your brute strength to savage women if you have it in the back of your mind that they may well be armed and ready to defend themselves.
Violent assault, too, is lower in the US than in Australia.
Anti-gun nuts like to focus on the crimes committed by people with guns but refuse to ponder the number of crimes prevented by people with guns.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 4:15 am
Potemkin’s Village
Let the gender wars begin… here
Grigory Potemkin
17 Dec 12 at 6:05 am
sdog, your figures are for sexual assault, one of the trickiest areas of criminality to get reliable figures on. Definitions and rates of reporting depend on all sorts of factors, but one of the things often noted is how rape and sexual assaults are often via someone the victim knows.
I would bet that there are few cases of that kind of rape ever deterred by knowing that the girlfriend has a gun somewhere in the house.
Your figures therefore prove nothing without drilling into the topic in much, much more detail.
Of course, politically, right wing gun defenders are, at the moment, also often likely to be the same people who will run around claiming that increasing CO2 and temperatures does not necessarily imply causation. Yet when it comes to crime stats in the US, any downward trend just has to “logically” be connected to gun sales.
No, it does not.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 6:16 am
What increasing temps would that be, dufus?
Blogstrop
17 Dec 12 at 6:30 am
So SfB, maybe Australia needs a Rape Tax (pardon me, “a price on rape”) to bring down the level of sexual assaults to a civilized (ie American) level?
Fuck me. It says nothing good about you that you prefer your women to be kept helpless so that they can be more easily raped. Nothing at all.
But then again, you’re the one who fantasised about women who may be seen to be “flirts”,
See it would just ruin your whole “put the bitch in her place” fantasy if she had something more lethal than a ballet kick to fend you off, ay?
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 6:45 am
sdog, you’re arguing ridiculously because you’ve got no sensible comeback.
The chances of the most serious, stranger on the street style rape in the US and Australia is quite likely not vastly different and in this country, women have the added security of knowing its very, very unlikely that they or there family are going to be killed or injured by any crime or accident involving a gun.
Your attitude towards women needing to be armed for rape protection is just an example of the paranoid element of gun advocacy in the States.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 7:20 am
Women in Australia are up to three times more likely to be raped than women in America. It’s you who has no sensible comeback to that. Skeeve.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 7:23 am
Your own figures on “sexual assault” don’t even show “up to three times more likely”.
Or are you sitting on some other figures somewhere.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 7:26 am
The figures above showed that 1% of Australian women will be raped as opposed to 0.4% of American women; these show that 91.6 per 100,000 Australian women get raped as opposed to 30.2 per 100,000 American women.
Talk about a “War On Women”, hey?
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 7:47 am
Henry Ergas in The Australian is a must-read column. The bloviating by Labor about “working families” is exposed by the sort of number crunching that the press claque will not do. The damage to businesses, the economy as a whole and to the employment prospects of women in particular (by the regressive IR system) needs to be spelt out, and this article goes some way to doing so.
blogstrop
17 Dec 12 at 7:49 am
…giggles SfB gleefully, happy with the knowledge that Australian women know their place as “helpless victims”.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 7:50 am
Great story on the ABC of all places about Gerard Depardieu’s spat with the Socialist Government he probably voted for:
You are a free man only if you leave socialist, moron driven, France. No doubt Obama wants to institute a similar tax policy that the GOP should give Obama on the sole proviso that all tax loopholes for Hollywood an Silicon Valley are closed.
Canada will do well out of Obama. Australia should benefit too, but the last thing Gillard wants is wealthy, wealth generating, tax exiles landing on our shores.
John Comnenus
17 Dec 12 at 8:02 am
Nice pose on 22 ways the climate realist movement would look if it was really well funded, PR savvy and well organized.
Poor Old Rafe
17 Dec 12 at 8:07 am
Thanks for the tip, Blogstrop. Henry Ergas is indeed required reading this morning.
Tom
17 Dec 12 at 8:14 am
sdog, read the fine print on that latest page you have linked to:
Sexual assault is not all “rape”.
Don’t ask me why your beloved Nationmaster site uses the heading “rape” – it confuses people like you, obviously.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 8:29 am
~~SfB flails~~
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 8:35 am
Small dog taunts old derro in a raincoat. LOL.
Tom
17 Dec 12 at 8:39 am
sdog is shown to be stupid and careless with stats, and doesn’t care.
By the way, you paranoid prat, woman wanting to prevent rape on the street are going to have trouble fitting a Bushmaster rifle in their handbag.
They’re pretty useless at preventing the type of rape I would say women fear most. Pretty good at shooting up the maximum number of people in short space of time, though.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 8:43 am
So pervert, what type of rape do women fear the least?
Huckleberry Chunkwot
17 Dec 12 at 8:58 am
sfb QC. A small handgun might do the trick.
Is this the feminist in you speaking out on behalf of womenhood? You and Sandra making the big points for womenhood. Did you steal any bread on the weekend? Have you washed up after breakfast? Scared any children lately. So many questions, so much to do, such little time
Tiny Dancer
17 Dec 12 at 9:04 am
Actually they aggregate it all with suicides.
Removing guns doesn’t change the overall suicide rate.
Basically they use the fact that suiciders use the quickest method possible to ghoulishly skew the data to their dishonest argument.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:05 am
Splato says
“Now I am a father I am instilling into my children the same practical instruction that has held me in good stead all these years.
I would say I know a lot more than you and your moronic husband who in your opinion was such a threat to your son’s safety that you had to surrender his firearm for him.
Why do you think only mothers care about children’s safety? Misandry alert!”"
I am glad you got such great instruction in firearm management. Its a shame your manners instruction appears to be somewhat lacking Splato. There was no call at all to insult my good husband thankyou. not only that you misinterpreted my post completely.
My husband is not in this blog to respond to your comment but I bet he could soon take you out without a firearm.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:06 am
And the countries with the lowest rate of rape on that page? Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (none at all!). Do you think perhaps that different countries have different methodologies for reporting and definitions for rape that result in the comparisons there being rather useless?
Chris
17 Dec 12 at 9:09 am
Alice refuses to tell us how her idea of higher taxes, debt, regulation and waste will lower the unemployment rate.
It’s a shame because she’s a professor of economics or some-such. Our loss.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:14 am
* What were the Roman circuses?
* The stocks in public locations?
* The public hanging / beheading / drawing & quartering?
* Bear & Bull fights?
* Public duels of honour?
It takes a deliberate effort to have such a vast array of ignorance.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 9:18 am
Neolithic barbaric cultures do not colect statistics on the crime as in such cases the women is the perpetrator and the man is the victim.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 9:20 am
The first Underbelly series was based upon some of the most compelling books ever written on Australian crime.
After that series, Channel 9 decided it can do better than the creators of the books and turned a compelling crime narrative into tawdy shite.
I find if Andrew Rule writes something, it is worth reading.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 9:26 am
The Underbelly books are fascinating, a genuine straightforward insight into a subculture of Australia most of us never see.
candy
17 Dec 12 at 9:49 am
It’s different when Labor do it. It just is.
Tiny Dancer
17 Dec 12 at 9:55 am
Do you really believe that America, home of the modern feminist, under-reports sexual assaults by a factor of as much as three as compared to Australia?
Really?
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 10:06 am
The gun control nutjobs have been totally defeated and humiliated here.
Steve’s latest confection shows how low and stupid they are willing to go.
.
17 Dec 12 at 10:09 am
Don’t let it get you too hot, Uncle Skeeve, but there’s such a thing as a bra holster and guns that’ll fit in it.
I know, right?!
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 10:10 am
I wonder if Slippery Pete
will be the guest of honour?
Huckleberry Chunkwot
17 Dec 12 at 10:11 am
SfB channels Whoopi on rape vs. rape-rape.
Next up, SfB defends Todd Akin’s “legitimate rape” comment.
There is seriously not enough popcorn in the world for this.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 10:15 am
Eight boats and 416 illegal immigrants have arrived in the last seven days.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 10:25 am
Not that it gets reported in msm anymore.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 10:25 am
sdog’s argument is as crooked as his hind leg.
He won’t admit that sexual assault figures are not the same as rape figures.
He won’t admit that comparing rape and assault figures internationally is fraught with uncertainty because of issues to do with definitions and how often women are prepared to report them.
He won’t admit that most rapes/sexual assaults have long been said to occur with someone the victim knows, making it all the less likely that the victim is going to be armed at the time of her assault out of concern for her safety.
He pretends that women say “yes, I fear most from a bloke I know – my boyfriend/work colleague/lecturer” instead of “I fear for my safety when out on the street at night – you don’t know what creeps are around”.
Simplistic, stupid, paranoid; but all justified as long as no one touches his guns.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 10:28 am
Gab
Floaty boats – it’s just supply meeting demand:
Do you reckon it’s the pitch about ‘abundant jobs’ that is the selling point ?
Myrrdin Seren
17 Dec 12 at 10:36 am
I believe in women learning self-defense techniques. Of necessity, in my teens I taught myself a good knee in the groin method (or threat of it) which was a useful deterrent when men were being unreasonable in their ardour. It pulls them up – ummm – short, shall we say. But it is only useful if you can then run, or if he’s talking reasonable again. Worst offender in the reasonable category was a man in evening tails carrying a Stradivarius – a member of a world-renowned symphony orchestra after the show, a pre-arranged late dinner date. I had to fend him off for half and hour before he desisted and departed. In retrospect, I should have threatened to bust the Strad.
I wouldn’t pretend I could deter a determined and strong male rapist, although I could try to get a headstart running (ditching the heels). Da Hairy Ape made me go to Self Defense for Women classes, and he gave me some practice. They teach you a few tricks there to get you away from a nasty situation.
We also have a hidden personal alarm system in the house connected to a security agency.
Mostly I am a bit of a Polyanna about this – the genuine Polly not the twitty sunnygirl one. The genuine Polyanna took a positive view while making a careful and realistic assessment of her situation at all times.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 10:39 am
Say’s Law in action, Myrrdin.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 10:41 am
What gets me is the following.
Conservatives seem offended at the very presence of boats. It’s almost irrational.
Do any of the shit stirrers protest the way welfare is administered? No. Just the boats. Now that would be fair enough if they were ALL fraudulent.
Some of the asylum seekers do get a positive review and become refugees. I am well aware there is a lot of fraud here so don’t lecture me please. It took me a long time to accept that conservatives don’t want boats because they are dangerous. I don’t know why they find it so concerning – if people are willing to die to come here to get on welfare – well there isn’t much to dissuade them other than cut of the spigot.
So firstly I’m angry that the talkback radio hosts and John Howard, Ruddock and Abbot barely acknowledge the legit claims and refuse to piss off any of their supporters who are living off Government largesse. It is cowardice.
Please note the boat and refugee arrivals from about 1980 to 1992.
What happened. Were the incentives different? Were the numbers fudged? Is mandatory detention necessary to send people smugglers broke?
Surely if you let people in, destroy the boat and arrest the people smuggler wouldn’t that end people smuggling…but that assumes most of them get caught. But why wouldn’t they get caught? We spend a lot of resources on this and use a lot of military grade surveillance equipment to measure and detect such activity.
Secondly, what Gillard did with regards to Malaysia and creating more boat arrivals, wastefully trashing what Howard set up and then going back to it, was callous, stupid and smacked of born to rule arrogance where her mistakes are ones us “mere mortals” can’t foresee. Except everyone bloody did.
What was she thinking sending people to a country where refugees are beaten up in pogroms?
I always find it pig ignorant and hypocritical in the extreme that the left pilloried Howard for mandatory detention when it was set up by Paul Keating in a hare brained “law and order” campaign to boost his image.
.
17 Dec 12 at 10:42 am
but one of the things often noted is how rape and sexual assaults are often via someone the victim knows.
I would bet that there are few cases of that kind of rape ever deterred by knowing that the girlfriend has a gun somewhere in the house.
sfb, how about “drilling down” yourself? The hidden fact about the above claim regarding rape/ sexual assault is that it cack-handedly includes any person the victim may have met in the past, from her local green grocer or doorman, up to and including the current boyfriend or husband. I would imagine that a great many of these men would be deterred in part from such a possibility.
dover_beach
17 Dec 12 at 10:50 am
I know many people who are martial arts instructors (Hapkido, Karate, Boxing, Aikido, Tae Kwon Do, Muai Thai, BJJ). They think this is good but it can lead to a false sense of security.
Often you are better to actually take up a martial art, making sure you practice it effectively with fully grown and athletic men.
You don’t buy a gun and never practice with it, do you?
The State police forces usually teach good self awareness courses which teach more than self defence – good habits like not making yourself vulnerable etc.
What they’ve also seen is that a lot of the women simply don’t fight back hard enough.
Same deal – put two ordinary guys in the ring and they usually find it hard to punch the shit out of each other.
.
17 Dec 12 at 10:55 am
Actually, the inclusion of persons one has only meet once was not really cack-handed at all but deliberately used in order to be misleading and to cast aspersions on women’s partners.
dover_beach
17 Dec 12 at 11:07 am
Yep, Dot, the one I did taught all that too.
When I told Da Hairy Ape about what SfB said, he thought Stevie might have had a point there. Except, I knew these tradie guys were OK, there was never only just one working in the place, and I absolutely had to take this one time opportunity to wear-in my new heels.
SO – on Saturday nite at a great party I danced and danced and danced my little feet off in them, and Sunday not a twinge or a blister to show for it. Other girls were dancing in impossible heels, so high they were unwalkable without their platform base. Ape thought they looked tremendously hot, (especially the sunkissed raven-haired one in the shorty short white skirt and bareback top; Ape got up and did his special apedance for her), but I know their feet were killing them in their never-worn-before new shoes.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 11:18 am
So, Lizzie joins the list of women who talk wistfully about me to their friends and partners.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 11:21 am
The policy of destroying boats and arresting the crew has had the unintended (I hope) side effect of making the journeys more dangerous. Smugglers know this is going to happen so they use boats which are as cheap as possible (often unseaworthy). And they don’t send experienced crew, or the experienced ones get off before its likely the boat will be detected leaving inexperienced crew behind. So if the boat does get into trouble no one knows what to do. And we often end up arresting children crewing the boats who had little to no idea what was really going on.
Chris
17 Dec 12 at 11:30 am
As I said the other day, the only seal of the confessional is the one being run by the ALP – the only political party in the world to have selected no fewer than three leaders convicted of raping children.
Labor approved abuse cover-up.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 11:32 am
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/16/world/asia/japan-election/index.html
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 11:35 am
For the ABC/FauxFacts/Newscorp/TV reporter Lefties would force them to face the painful dilemma that it ws the repugnant policies they pushed endlessly has lured over 1,000 to their deaths.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 11:36 am
Good on you Chris. You have an amazing capacity to “feel and emote” on issues like this.
Strangely, you continue back the repugnant policies that lure people to their deaths and show no ability to learn.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 11:40 am
Surely the asylum seekers see a 15 year old “captain” and say WTF, where’s my 30k?
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:42 am
Rooting injury compensated:
Worker wins legal battle after being injured during sex.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 11:42 am
Seriously?
You can imagine it being a realistic outcome that people will be trained by OH&S shysters about how to root safely whilst on a work funded extra marital affair now.
“Well, we put you through the training, you know to get tied up the safe way, a lamp fell on your face, now that’s on you”
The backs of hotel doors will now carry a safe rooting poster in addition to the extract from the Inkeeper’s Act.
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:47 am
If only Rudd and Gillard had been warned not to rip apart Howard’s Pacific Solution…
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 11:48 am
There’s been quite a few reports of the captains and experienced crew getting picked up by another boat once they’re out to sea.
If the main concern was the welfare of the asylum seekers we’d send good quality boats to pick them up ourselves or grant them visas to fly to Australia. Most of them would have enough money to pay their own way over if they didn’t have to pay people smugglers.
Chris
17 Dec 12 at 11:49 am
Can’t really demonise the people smugglers when they are only responding to incentives developed by Labor since 2008. Supply creates demand.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 11:52 am
Yes chris but stuff (important stuff) happens at the margin.
Just because there are murders doesn’t mean that life imprisonment or capital punishment doesn’t work.
Can’t you see an unintended consequence here?
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:52 am
Wayne Swan, ever the Mr Civility of politics, calls Abbott a “thug”.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 11:57 am
This is the same tired excuse that Labor used to create the repugnant killer of a policy 5 years ago.
The middle class economic refugees of South Asia know that by arriving by boat without ID they get access to the motherload of welfare.
They can not get access to the same if they arrive at our airports via plane as the airlines would not allow them to embark.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 11:58 am
Dot says
“So you’re saying;
1. Increasing taxes
2. Increasing Government debt
3. Increasing Government waste
4. Increasing occupational licensing
…would lower the unemployment rate?
Alice. You’re gonna have to explain the finer points of how your plan works.”
1. insert at end “selectively on those who have had massive tax reductions in the past 40 years since inequality started its long rise upward”
2 combines with 3. Cross out the word waste and replace it with “spending on infrastructure to create jobs”. If debt is needed so be it. Returning to surplus too fast will kill jobs (and thats what the problem is now – lack of jobs). If the debt stimulates GDP it will result in higher incomes and that may return a cyclical surplus – so take a chill pill on government debt for once.
This isnt the household budget we are talking about and households dont earn tax income which goes up when the economy goes up.
What kills government budgets is downturns to a greater degree, than debt.
You know and I know its all a question of degree and timing and you cannot have a blanket no debt stance unless you are a fool. No waste is fine but debt doesnt mean waste. Look for the waste and kill that by all means.
3. Inflation may kill jobs but lack of demand will kill jobs deeper and longer. Raise interest rates so the poor can get something from their savings and capital isnt so cheap that firms can buy “labour replacing technology” adding to unemployment.
If I have to explain the finer points of this argument to you I am surprised Dot.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 11:59 am
Indeed, the Heartless Labor/Greens/Independence alliance has provided many government incentives to encourage the trade.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 12:00 pm
Who says government doesn’t create jobs?!
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 12:02 pm
Who has had massive tax cuts, Alice?
The taxes on building a new home in NSW can total up to 46% of the purchase price.
Who doesn’t pay this?
Who is exempt from the carbon tax?
Who is exempt from the automatic indexation of excise taxes?
What millionaires are exempt from the MRRT?
Please tell us who got those tax cuts and why reinstituting “equity” would create more jobs.
A perfectly inequitable tax we could cut and create jobs with is payroll tax. Abolishing it would be pro employment and very pro equity.
You are defining a problem away. How are you going to eliminate waste if you increase Government spending?
If households don’t earn tax income, how do they pay it?
Inflation isn’t demand, Alice. In the long run, inflation reduces real wages and thus reduces demand.
How do the poor fare with asset price inflation? How did they go after the post 2002 property boom? What is their rent like now?
.
17 Dec 12 at 12:07 pm
ahahahahahahahahaha Stevie. You wish.
HIA thinks you sound like a total wimp. He don’t like your politics.
He will not defend my honour with fistcuffs when it is impugned by wimpy old guys. He says the only way he would consider taking you out is with the garbage.
No need though, I say. We have a new and reformed Stevie around.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 12:15 pm
Just noticed that Wifey bought Leunig’s book to give to someone for a Christmas present.
Two thoughts struggled for prominence; (a) who is the poor soul that we dislike so much, and (b) annoyance that I contributed one cent to the royalty dribble for that miserable anti-Semite and faux-intellectual poseur, whose inane garbage perfectly, wholly and totally captures the malign streak behind the touchy-feely-naif Green Left front for which Fairfax sacrificed its shareholders’ equity and its credibility to become the house organ.
James in Melbourne
17 Dec 12 at 12:22 pm
Actually, Lizzie, speaking of women and me: I had a close encounter with an ex girlfriend last night. Sitting on the footpath-y section of a cafe at Southbank, my wife and kids had gone to the toilets. She walked up and started reading the menu, barely 2m from where I was sitting, and I was facing her directly. She was in company with a few female friends. She obviously had not noticed me.
I did not know what to do – say “Hi, if you eat here you’ll meet the wife and family soon. Remember – the woman you were annoyed about?”
I decided to stay silent, and she instead moved on, never noticing me, and it may be another 10 years before this happens again. (Actually, I think I spied her once before at a concert I was at by myself. I chickened out of making myself know then too.)
And here ends my Lizzie-like comment all about myself.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 12:27 pm
We also have a new and reformed HIA as well.
I am not a fist fightin’ man now, Lizzie, he declares. Dose days are over. Don’t you wurry, I am a big conversationalist with everyone now.
He is too. The old Irish charm works a treat, especially if I kick him under the table or dig him in the ribs if he is getting too stroppy over things Irish. Once I missed and kicked a VIP next to him and had to invent a reflex reaction to a biting insect which everyone then spent time looking for. A useful distraction anyway which served the same purpose as a kick.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 12:35 pm
LOL. I’m using that one in future.
Gab
17 Dec 12 at 12:37 pm
That’s very touching Stevie, and a great insight into what makes you tick .. and tick … and tick … and tick …….
Not of lot of ticker though. Next time, give her a smile. That’s allowed.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 12:43 pm
Dot asset price inflation could also be being driven by low interest rate fetishes by the central bank so people look for something to park their money in that returns a higher rate of interest.
I agree asset price rises in housing is killing the young in this country but that is not general inflation – that is a relative asset price inflation that may have little to do with the general level of inflation.
You need to look also at the other factors that leads people to push up the prices of houses.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 12:45 pm
Anyone else notice how even SfB’s anecdotes manage to exclude his “wife & kids”,
He doesn’t quite have the imagination to include them in his lies about his lying liars life. Fucking liar.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
17 Dec 12 at 12:45 pm
Arseholes:
Treasurers work on online shopping tax.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 12:51 pm
CL
The thing that gets me is that the Feds might be stupid enough to decrease the GST-free threshhold for imports even if it doesn’t raise any more revenue, just to keep the Shoppies sweet.
Rococo Liberal
17 Dec 12 at 12:58 pm
You’re against low interest rates and low inflation?
I mentioned high taxes but you seem to want to levy more taxes.
.
17 Dec 12 at 12:59 pm
I’m planning my future with regards to this impending GST situation.
- I’m buying all my clothes, orb speakers, outdoor gear, tools and anything else that comes to mind online right now.
- once the GST comes in all family holidays will be structured with a shopping component starting with Hoi An for some suits.
I vow to limit my retail shopping in Australia to groceries to the greatest extent that I can. Starve the beast!
John Mc
17 Dec 12 at 1:15 pm
This business with Malcolm Turnbull’s tweet to Rupert Murdoch that went viral is interesting.
From the support the tweet is getting, it seems that the press-censoring left actually don’t mind if Rupert Murdoch directs his newspapers to take a particular politcal stance, so long as it’s a stance they agree with.
(* files that one away for the next round of Murdoch bashing and claims that he has too much control of the media)
papachango
17 Dec 12 at 1:28 pm
John Mc, my plan is exactly the same. Screw the rent seeking retailers.
tbh
17 Dec 12 at 1:43 pm
How are they going to police GST on online putrchases? It will cost them a fortune to open up every parcel toat comes from O/S, not to mention breaches of privacy…
Have you seen the relative prices (half to a third) and quality (at least ten times) of groceries in France. If it was possible I’d have a standard weekly order airfreighted from Carrefour… would still save money even with the freight costs.
papachango
17 Dec 12 at 1:51 pm
Our communications dude doesn’t actually understand how Twitter works, does he.
sdog
17 Dec 12 at 1:52 pm
It doesn’t matter. Next time the haters need a distraction from their latest blunder are looking for something to manufacture confected hate about, Rupert will get a good kicking.
Token
17 Dec 12 at 1:53 pm
Chunkwart: my family and I are very cross with you for disbelieving our existence.
steve from brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 3:01 pm
Steve, from your link I see that you have been swapping Kimberley with your namesake, SteveC.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
17 Dec 12 at 3:14 pm
Nicola Roxon and her Gal Qaeda pals will no doubt be looking to Mali for inspiration after this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/15/rape-killings-terror-mali
Infidel Tiger
17 Dec 12 at 3:23 pm
Vested interest
Pickles
17 Dec 12 at 3:26 pm
It’s not a religion, it’s a political control system.
blogstrop
17 Dec 12 at 3:34 pm
You good man on the markets, Pickles. Your wife very smart lady too. Special price tomatos for you from Lizzie. Big thread ’bout fat ladies just opened up by Sinc. I think straight away, must tell my friend Pickles. He like fat ladies, too much.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
17 Dec 12 at 4:16 pm
I note the UK has a semi subsidised pink batts scheme.
How is it possible to survive a winter there without insulation? Your fuel bill would be out of this world.
Or am I missing something?
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 4:45 pm
If stats were done on the number of child-rapists and kiddie-fiddlers in parliamentary Labor in Australia, relative to the number of children with whom they’d come in contact overall, it’d be London to a brick on that the churches would be regarded as the safest place for children.
Tintarella di Luna
17 Dec 12 at 5:04 pm
This case has been going for ages — I wonder if Slater & Gordon have carriage of the matter?
Well it’s a good thing it was a compo action commenced prior to June 2012 because O’Farrell has totally rooted the ‘werkers’ when it comes to compensations for injuries now. Pity the ‘werkers’ and their Unions are totally schtum!!!
Tintarella di Luna
17 Dec 12 at 5:11 pm
Wukkas, Tinta, “tha wukkas”.
I hope you make note of this.
.
17 Dec 12 at 6:05 pm
IMF wants better statistics or they’ll kick Argentina out which means they get kicked out of most international economic groupings.
Better statistics? Is this because of the bail out a few years ago?
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 6:34 pm
Hahahaha
Gillard found another way to piss Abbott and his family off.
By disrupting their time in their next abode.
It’s beyond farcical her spite. LOL.
jumpnmcar
17 Dec 12 at 6:54 pm
Thanks, dot, note taken, how is that pronouced exactlee.
Tintarella di Luna
17 Dec 12 at 7:20 pm
Tinta, think of it said in a Scottish accent.
tbh
17 Dec 12 at 7:21 pm
Radio National is giving a lot tonight.
Three professional charity heads are openly talking about redistribution via their programs.
At no point has it been mentioned that, tragically, these people are damaged goods. No amount of free money will fix that.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 7:24 pm
Dot says with a sense of alarm in his voice
“You’re against low interest rates and low inflation?”
You know what Dot? I am against low interest rates. I am not against low to mild inflation. We certainly dont have an inflation problem so shy the obsession.You did mention the real problem we have is unemployment. Inflattion isnt always and everywhere the cause of every unemployment Dot. You are fighting the wrong monster this time.
I am against low interest rates because there are plenty of savers in this country who dont want to back the share markets and who dont want to sink their savings into real estate and maybe cant afford to yet. Those people (including the young saving up to buy a house and the retirees living of their safe bank account savings) need a break.
When interest rates are too low every firm can afford the technology that displaces and removes labour, rather than enhances the productivity of their existing labour. Its not all about capital winning at the expense of labour or you get what we have now Dot. High unemployment and lack of demand.
Regards to Dave f . I will have to look up what it means to be a “statist”.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 7:34 pm
Alice a ‘statist’ is someone who sees the only answer to any problem is to involve the government ie the state.
I actually feel the inflation rates are very much understated. They use a basket of goods that I believe leans more toward irregular purchases than regular, weekly purchases.
Also it includes products that are virtually all tax so any variation in government policy is usually adjusted out further weakening the model they use.
That would be booze and smokes also petrol.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 7:40 pm
Alice
Who taught you that?
We have been accumulating capital since the 1500s in a meaningful sense.
They employ more capital and the capital labour ratio increases, and the marginal product of labour increases, thus the demand for labour increases.
You actually think cheap capital investment means lower levels of employment?
Is this why we should tax capital gains?
.
17 Dec 12 at 7:41 pm
Dot
Please explain the high taxes you think are pushing up the price of houses (I may even agree with some of what you say – namely stamp duties – a ridiculous impost now when it was originally for the cost of stamps)
” You need to look also at the other factors that leads people to push up the prices of houses.
I mentioned high taxes but you seem to want to levy more taxes.”
I refer to the need to raise income taxes on certain groups. I also refer to the need for an equitable way the states can claw back some of our income taxes the fed govt will not give back fairly as it should)
– thus leaving the state governments with no option but to raise unfair taxes like stamp duties on the cost of purchasing a house or unit. Carr’s govt made a motza from this during the boom and got itself addicted instead of fighting the real fight for an equitable share of our income taxes from Canberra
(who have I might add – have gilded the lily in the city of Canberra at Sydney’s expense and other cities expense for decades now).
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 7:47 pm
The fever for gun control (as opposed to most weeks, when any form of control by leftists is front page news) peaks at times like this. Obama asks whether we are going to take it lying down. Are we powerless? Are we going to let politics get in the road?
Chris Uhlmann uses the loaded language when he asks on the highly respected 7.30 Report if the “political might” (that’s something which if he approved of the cause would be called “democracy at work”) of the gun lobby would still prevail.
What Obama should be exercising power over, and what Uhlmann and Peters the invited anti-gun talking head should all be supporting, is a return to (a) morally strong society rather than post-modern free-for-all, but this means abandoning their anti-christian (but strangely pro-muslim) stance, and acepting that bad behaviour can only be fought by education and, more importantly, a home-based moral upbringing.
So far, I’d say the report card favoured just about anything but the moral relativists and the muslims that the left media are busy making into a force for change, but are yet to twig that they actually hate everything the left stands for.
When they find the courage to return to a mental health policy which sends the mentally ill into therapy rather than onto the streets (where they swell the “Homeless Industry”) I’ll resume paying attention to them.
blogstrop
17 Dec 12 at 7:55 pm
This is old, but take note:
See graph 16 and table 6:
http://www.appliedeconomics.com.au/pubs/papers/gw03_house.htm
From 2011
http://hia.com.au/media/Industry-policy/Tax-Reforms.aspx
You go on, Alice
What need?
Why not tax others less? Like abolishing payroll tax?
Let’s go back to the production function Alice. Let’s use more labour and capital. Output and real wages will be higher. That’s indisputable.
The states could reform their own taxes, but yes that would only get them so far. The Feds take the GST and income tax in all of its forms.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:23 pm
Dot says
“Who taught you that?
We have been accumulating capital since the 1500s in a meaningful sense.
They employ more capital and the capital labour ratio increases”
Does it Dot? Really? I think you look more deeply and are amking assumptions again.
When accummulation of capital occurs along with the displacement of labour and a higher Nairu I would start being concerned with the type of capital accummulation that peristent low interest rates permits.
ie not labour saving capital Dot, but labour displacing capital.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:23 pm
Well that settles it.
Tim Fischer calls on President Obama to implement tougher gun control laws.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 8:23 pm
Yes. Capital accumulation increases real wages.
What kind of capital displaces labour? You need to be more specific.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:26 pm
Not if you’re white and/or a legal gun owner.
Infidel Tiger
17 Dec 12 at 8:29 pm
Dot I do niot find any of your argument in post at 8.23pm contradictory to mine especially re the burden of taxes on home ownership. I thought I made my points clear on the sort of tax increases I think necessary and they have nothing to do with the taxes you raise in this post.
You ask “what need?”
I refer to income taxes raises on certain groups as being an effective measure at this point in time, to be quite clear as it appears you misunderstand me.
I do not refer to the raising of taxes such as stamp duties on home wonership (I would prefer to see these lowered). I agree with the abolishing of payroll tax – provided the states gets a fair share bacxk from the C’wealth of the income taxes we pay (and at the moment they are not getting and have not been getting it for decades leading to a whole raft of stupid state taxes).
Look to the C’wealth for your waste (but look at how they do not share with the States) Dot.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:31 pm
I was speaking to my Dad today about the gun thing and he trots out the standard leftist/statist lines (he’s very much brain washed by the ABC) so I asked him:
“Dad you had a gun for pretty much 20 years, how many people did you murder?”
Angry reaction. That’s pretty much it.
btw he had the gun with him virtually every day, he surveyed in the bush for many years where the team would often hunt for dinner and also in New Britain in the jungle, definitely needed a gun there.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 8:31 pm
Inflation alters asset values and means there is excess money supply.
Uneconomic projects get inflated returns in the financial market without producing goods to back them up in the goods market. Excess money supply lowers interest rates – but not capital costs unless all firms are purely levered.
Inflation is a problem, Alice. You are ignoring it and wondering why investment can lead to declining demand.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:31 pm
How would this reduce unemployment?
They would spend less, invest less and work less – not in jobs that anyone can just do.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:33 pm
Alice
NSW State Rail can’t even tell us how many people they have on the payroll.
They don’t even know how wasteful they are.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:34 pm
Dot,
an example of capital that displaces labour is simplistically auto scanning machines for your target purchases or bar code do it yourself scanning in supermarkets, or even ATMs (but that has already happened), any capital that involves toi customer DIY for example.
I am sure there atre many more examples – I could suggest a coca cola bottling plant that is entirely robotisized and produces enough drinks for thr whole of Australia plus more Asian markets without a single worker on the factory floor…
That is capital that has displaced labour Dot and it becomes more affordable when interest rates are low and low for prolonged lengths of time.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:36 pm
Dot – you are wrong on State Rail – there may have been inefficiencies in the past but we still want a decent rail system and I happen to think Gladys is doing a good job (at last).
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:38 pm
Actually you are arguing for indexation of taxes, I think, Alice.
Stamp duty wasn’t a huge issue until Sydney prices went through the roof. If the threshold was increased at the level of land inflation it would be far lower now.
Same for income tax, raise thresholds with wage increases.
Land prices are purely a result of regulatory block. What you are buying is not the land, it’s the permit to build. I’ve mentioned before that if every block was zoned for a 6 storey block of flats then housing prices would drop.
They really would.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 8:40 pm
Dave f but if every block wa zoned for a 6 storey block instantly ie all blocks at the one time
well I think you may just be right! (Im having trouble thinking it through but my instinct telle me you may be right).
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:43 pm
This is nonsense and you haven’t made any distinction between the two concepts Alice.
“Labour displacing capital” is a busted arse Marxian concepts.
Nonsense Alice. The cost to build such a plant would be prohibitive and not profit or wealth maximising.
You have not made any distinction between labour saving and displacement.
You are saying that technology only advances when interest rates are ‘too low’.
Technology has steadily improved since the late middle ages. Interest rates were not permanently below the natural rate nor have the majority of humanity been rendered unemployable and destitute.
You are arguing an obscure Marxist theory that flies in the face of history.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:44 pm
All those little kids were white IT.
SteveC
17 Dec 12 at 8:45 pm
The states is so far off the track I can’t put it into words.
A black man appointed to the US Senate from SOUTH CAROLINA.
Fort Sumpter. The first state to secede from the Union.
Sad, very very sad.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 8:48 pm
Dot
says
“This is nonsense and you haven’t made any distinction between the two concepts Alice.
“Labour displacing capital” is a busted arse Marxian concepts. ”
Bullshit it is Dot. Whemever you dont have a decent response you call on a cheap Marxist leftist insult. You dont fool me boy.
Wake up and debate properly or piss off.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:49 pm
I am debating properly.
Make a distinction between labour saving and labour displacing.
.
17 Dec 12 at 8:52 pm
Alice I’d suggest you listen to this catchy song about what is unseen in economics, its a bit rappy but has a good tune.
When you are talking about machines replacing people you can see it happening – ATMs, check out scanners etc – but it’s the unseen benefit of a small guy being able to start his own Asian supermarket in DY without all the staff overheads he would need without the scanners.
The pizza man who has the equivalent to an ATM in his shop to receive payment.
The unseen benefits. Which benefit all us.
The video is a winner I suggest everyone takes a look if they haven’t seen it.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 8:55 pm
Dot you fool – you say
“You are saying that technology only advances when interest rates are ‘too low’.”
Go back and read my argument sonny. I am arguing against the sort of capital accummulation that is occurring with interest rates that are too low for sustained periods of time. There must be a balance between capital and labour. Every economist is aware of this. Capital accummulation when it is cheap to accummulate for too long is destrctive to the labour share and that destruction is what puts people out of jobs.
Please dont say “you are saying…..”
without reading what I did say.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 8:55 pm
I know there are unseen benefits DaveF for the small guy starting a business but who buys his goods when he cant offer a siungle job to his community bar his own?
There is a tradeoff and the small guy will soon feel it if the balance isnt there and untimately no amount of technology will help him open that shop.
How many small corner stores with groceries eytc are there in Dee Why still? Labour saving devices or not? Can the giy make a buck?
Here is some news – cars are getting cheaper and smaller new. Car yards even for new cars used to call Joe the wholesaler to buy the ld trade ins.
Now with margins even tighter they are tenering their trade ins. The wholesalers are leaving in droves. New car yards now want to make money on the new sale and money on the old (probably because money on the new is tighter).
With that development the used car yards also feel the pinch etc.
Bet these new cars are made in robot factories and will soon join computers for cheapness and enoironmental disposability problems…and we can all forget buying used cars. There eont be any available and all new cars will come with a five year warranty after which time we will throw them away. There goes another tranche of small to medium business industry to the capital intensive international plants.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:04 pm
What balance, Alice? What balance is optimal? What rate of inflation, or interest (which one) is optimal?
I’m not.
We’ve been increasing the capital-labour ratio despite population increases for centuries in the first world, and we continue to get higher standards of living.
You are appealing to authority.
Please make a distinction between labour saving and labour displacing capital.
Alice
You are saying that lower wages increase unemployment.
The demand for labour falls when labour productivity falls. Yes there can be credit cycles and business cycles under prolonged pump priming – which is what you are asking for.
You are also saying that higher labour productivity lowers labour demand, viz wages and employment at the same time.
You’re going to have to explain this in more detail.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:04 pm
Plenty. They are run by Koreans.
Alice. If it is cheaper to buy a new car than an old one, why would you buy an old one?
You’re the first person I’ve encountered who actually thinks cheaper cars are bad for society. If cheap cars are bad, why is expensive housing bad? They all must be purchased from a household budget.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:07 pm
I will Dot..that a promise but its bedtime now…I enjoy our arguments actually.
At least Sinc allows a robust debate here which is a good thing.
Anyway Dot – see the old lady in this you tube? Thats me! This is funny – watch closely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bBVJAFrN0U
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:09 pm
I’d rather not.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:10 pm
Is Alice the first lefty you’ve ever spoken to? At least Alice likes cars.
It is official Australian Government policy to inflate the price of cars.
Infidel Tiger
17 Dec 12 at 9:13 pm
Just wondering about your gravatar Mk50. A Royal Navy Armoured Cruiser on fire… HMS Defence at Jutland? Who is the artist? Certainly a very striking image.
Cold-Hands
17 Dec 12 at 9:15 pm
RE: cheaper new cars forcing down the 2nd hand prices.
That’s actually deflation in car prices, one of my arguments about why the CPI is skewed.
Alice it’s tough to argue that new home buyers should be protected from the market whilst saying 2nd hand car owners are being done over by that same market.
Your mention of 5 year warranties is important. I’m certainly old enough to remember when 1 yr warranty was the norm then a firm offered 3 years and now its 5 as standard, usually with a drive train at 10.
The repair men have lost their jobs but I think we all agree we’re better off now they build better cars.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:16 pm
Ah, of course, and course it was, of course. Got it now tbh, thanks
Tintarella di Luna
17 Dec 12 at 9:16 pm
IT
They normally argue that by keeping jobs in Australia, we all have net benefits exceeding the tariff, subsidy or other non tariff barrier.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:18 pm
Dot
Watch the you tube. Its funny.
You confuse me badly. You say
“You’re the first person I’ve encountered who actually thinks cheaper cars are bad for society. If cheap cars are bad, why is expensive housing bad? ”
I think cheaper lots of things are bad for society Dot, not just cars. However I do think expensive housing and expensive rents is very very bad for society (for the simple reason that some form of accommodation is a vtal necessity to most people’s lives and I quite selfishly dont want them all wandering the streets every night if they cant afford a roof over their heads).
You dont get me at all Dot. We can do without the cars and the electronic gadgets but most of us cant do without affordable accommodation.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:18 pm
Actually Alice I suspect the dearth of small corner shops in DY is more a result of rents and customer preferences.
Dee Why was a rathole in the past but in the last 5 or so years its really improved. Not Chatswood for sure, but improved.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:19 pm
Alice’s vid is a bit funny.
No I doubt its her.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:23 pm
Do you understand how a budget constraint works?
If those things weren’t cheap, housing would be even more unaffordable.
Public transport is at overcapacity as it is.
.
17 Dec 12 at 9:23 pm
Thats it – a lefty with a love of cars….where did the style go??
God give me a Lincoln Covertible and let me go around Oahu in it again! Bring them back.
No chance. They are all windtunnel designed into the most boring boxy poxy shapes now.
Cheaper cars are boring and even expensive ones look boring these days IMHO.
All the style gone down the drain…..
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:25 pm
Cold Hands
She’s HMS Good Hope, dying at Coronel. Kit Cradock has always been something of a hero of mine.
He was a very highly thought-of senior officer in the Navy of his era.
If there was one man who was caught by his duty, and forced by (incompetent) second-guessers half a world away into a situation where he knew he was taking his entire command to certain death, it was Cradock.
Churchill snaked out from underneath the responsibiltiy he bore for Coronal – but the RN’s senior commanders never forgot what he had done.
I am trying to find the artist, to commission another such painting.
Mk50 of Brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 9:32 pm
Dot, Alice, thank you both.
Alice for wearing glasses, and Dot for his calmly tone.
Iv’e waited a long time for this.
jumpnmcar
17 Dec 12 at 9:33 pm
Dot
“Public transport is at overcapacity as it is.”
Then build it bigger and mass transport if its at capacity. Help the environment reduce demand for cars to move one at a time…make the future gens pay for it if they get the use of it (that nis intergenerational equity – if they get the use they pay as well). Do the big infrastructure project and make governments use their buying power to get discounts (and tell the miserable ratings agencies to piss off)
Now is the time to build if its at capacity. Might even create quite a few jobs. If governments had to invest in something decent it might make them look at bullshot like belonging to OECD etc or cabcahrges or teir super or where else the waste is.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:34 pm
I must be seeing well tonight – no glasses either jumpncar. Last post spelling slipping tho…its really bedtime..Ive had it. When I see what hour people in here stay up to I am amazed.
Alice
17 Dec 12 at 9:37 pm
Alice, Sorry for calling your husband moronic. I should have said he was pussy whipped instead for allowing you to hand his gun in.
Splatacrobat
17 Dec 12 at 9:38 pm
night Alice
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:42 pm
Ok get this. A UK MP is a bit of a self publicist and seems to be maybe a narcissist as well.
Pinged for a divorce from her husband 5 years ago when it appears she never married him at all.
Financial fraud, a crooked psychic, retired race horse owner from Gloustershire, reality TV are all elements in this tale.
Man our political scandals are weak as water – Eddie Obeid the exception, but even that lacks the colour of South African beachfront investment property.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:52 pm
Can anyone tell me where i can find the list of consumables that treasury use to determine inflation?
Gotta be more than Plasma TVs and bananas.
jumpnmcar
17 Dec 12 at 9:56 pm
Bureau of Stats mate.
I reckon the food basket is out of whack.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 9:59 pm
One of these chapters should have it
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 10:02 pm
Mark 50,
I don’t see what Churchill could have done differently. In football parlance, the RN didn’t have the cattle to take on Von Spee. They could choose to bring VS to action, knowing that the South Atlantic Squadron would likely lose, but hopefully damage VS’ squadron and at least denude it of ammo. Which they did, fatally for all British concerned. As usual it was the hopelessly vague Admiralty orders that were at fault, as in those issued to Troubridge in the chase of the Goeben, plus Cradock’s knowledge that his friend was facing court martial for avoiding action. So yes, Churchill should have seen to it that Cradock’s orders were clearer, but I see his fault as being simply that of the C-in-C when people die in war doing something that had to be done. And Cradock’s sacrifice was not in vain – even VS knew they were dead men sailing from that point on.
James in Melbourne
17 Dec 12 at 10:07 pm
DaveF,Thanks, I’ll look there again.
I’m pretty shitfull with research on computers.
I’m guessing less than %1 of Australians know what’s in ” the basket of goods ” that determine CPI.
I’m one of them.
jumpnmcar
17 Dec 12 at 10:08 pm
jump:
I saw the list a year or 2 ago and the exquisite balancing lol.
Its more predicated on expenditure than necessary purchases so a mortgage interest change rumbles through it whilst a $1 increase in breakfast cereal leaves little impression.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 10:13 pm
Thanks Mk50. On second look, the secondary battery is clearly in casements, unlike HMS Defence’s turreted guns. Given the relative inadequacy of his command and his interpretation of his orders, it is difficult to see any other result for Craddock and his squadron. If Fisher had been appointed First Sea Lord sooner, Craddock would have had the ships to at least have had a fighting chance.
Cold-Hands
17 Dec 12 at 10:22 pm
James – without going in to great detail (as ain ‘don’t get me started or we’ll be here all night’….) diverting HMS Defence without telling Cradock, and giving him aggressive but internally contradictory orders with a major CYA for the Admiralty in them were the major issues.
There were a lot of others, down to and including poor crew quality and denying Cradock intelligence he needed, while pooh-poohing his assessments as the man with his force’s head on the chopping block.
Mk50 of Brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 10:22 pm
Yes, again Dave F thanks.
The CPI figures don’t seem to reflect reality.
Maybe Mr Davidson could do a post on it so the ” average mug punter ” can get a grip of it all.
He’s quite good at putting complex things in *layman terms.
* (2 a person without professional or specialized knowledge in a particular subject)
jumpnmcar
17 Dec 12 at 10:29 pm
you found it.
I always look at the survey parameters for this stuff. It started with the Public Health lobbyists changing the rules of statistics and it’s sort of a mental tick now.
Fun fact: the Oz smoking rate includes everyone from 14+ so the rate looks smaller. So it’s easier to impose grief.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 10:53 pm
Labor Godwin Greches itself:
Probe backs Tony Abbott over the timing of his statement on Peter Slipper case.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 10:54 pm
All those little kids were not white.
kae
17 Dec 12 at 10:57 pm
Thousands of disproportionately non-white children are slaughtered every year in the US by abortion mills – the biggest two having direct links to nazism.
The left is cool with this. Totally cool.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 10:59 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EryhQdXTjP8
twostix
17 Dec 12 at 11:00 pm
Re the timestamp on the document thing – wasn’t Abbott in the UK?
I bet the timestamp has to do with the timezone of the computer and some stupid hack thought they had a ‘gotcha’ not realising that London is 10 hours behind.
brc
17 Dec 12 at 11:02 pm
Odd how this story didn’t lead to calls for change – including from moronic ex-ambassador to the Holy See, Tim Fischer:
DA: West Philadelphia abortion doctor killed 7 babies with scissors.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 11:02 pm
It’s all good. The love media accepted the answer.
Mistakes happen..it was switched back to UTC (which is? GMT?).
Nothing to see here.
AbbottAbbottAbbott
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 11:04 pm
That Sideshow Bob clip perfectly summarises the Rudd/Gillard years.
Perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EryhQdXTjP8
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 11:06 pm
Hmmm.
Where did that twit Numbers go? Kae, did you frighten him off?
Mk50 of Brisbane
17 Dec 12 at 11:07 pm
More buses and rail?
Public liabilities?
Alice. Sydney roads are monopolised by buses now. What has made a real difference is toll roads. A toll road is superior to public transport. Public transport isn’t even cheap considering how slow, putrid and potentially violent it is.
A bus takes 45 mins to get from Wynyard to Dee Why. On a good run. This is a 20 km trip.
A 20 km trip on a tollway takes about 15 minutes, if that.
Make the future generations pay for it? Sure, they’re called toll fees or train tickets. So you think everyone who uses public infrastructure ought to pay for it? They do Alice, it’s called maintenance.
There is no need to capitalise costs to the point where all projects become uneconomic.
How much do you think public infrastructure costs, Alice? A train line to Palm Beach would cost at least 3 billion AUD just to get it set up – minus any new rolling stock or ongoing staff or maintenance costs.
What discounts have Governments ever gotten Alice? You’re just being unrealistic. Don’t bring up the PBS because the PBS has a quid quo pro most people have never heard of: the Commonwealth subsidises the research of firms that sell PBS drugs equal to the PBS “savings”.
Now you are saying that investment in capital at low interest rates – buying power and repudiation of credit risk rating – will create jobs.
Your project evaluation however leaves a lot to be desired. “It might create jobs” – this is not a justification to spend money. Imagine going to a bank for a home loan – “I might be able to pay it off” or a commercial loan “The venture might turn a profit”.
Governments build plenty of stuff Alice. You can check it out in the data release by the ABS, Cat No 8762.0., I am pretty sure they say what is Government and private sector at the state level.
I still have some questions for you.
What is the appropriate capital – labour ratio?
What is the optimal interest rate?
How is this possible? it flies in the face of the last 500 years of Western history.
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:15 pm
C.L.,
This is the NBN song from the Simpsons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw
By gum it put them on the map!
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:17 pm
Ahahahahahaha.
Lyle Lanley is Wayne Swan.
C.L.
17 Dec 12 at 11:24 pm
Is that the case Dot?
I thought it was a one way street.
DaveF
17 Dec 12 at 11:32 pm
This could have been a cyber infiltration of Abbot’s office.
It’s interesting that, from the reports, the lefty blogosphere has been alive with this allegation (did anyone here hear about it?)
Methinks the dirt unit may have been using cyber tactics, deemed acceptable by the likes of Anonymous and Lulz. But it is actually illegal, Watergate style.
Lazlo
17 Dec 12 at 11:50 pm
http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/31381/51drugsv1.pdf
I don’t know. I slightly mangled the deal. I overstated the cost.
Just remember estimates of what the PBS saves or costs are based on the US, where it is presumed the US has a free market model and free market prices – which it doesn’t. The US AMA are a very strong cartel.
The Factor f scheme is a key element of the Pharmaceutical Industry
Development Program adopted by the Commonwealth Government
in 1987 to encourage the growth of the pharmaceutical industry in
Australia. The scheme is designed to compensate companies for the
effects of low prices of pharmaceuticals supplied under the
Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS). In return for higher
notional prices on some of their PBS products, companies are
required to increase their research and development (R&D)
expenditure, as well as their domestic manufacturing and export
activity in Australia.
Since the inception of the Factor f scheme in 1988, companies have
committed $1.9 billion in export value added, $1.9 billion in
domestic value added, and $538 million on R&D expenditure. In
addition, they have undertaken $604 million of investment
expenditure. The Government has allocated approximately
$1 billion in funding
Don’t know if it is still in effect.
.
17 Dec 12 at 11:58 pm
Christ Dot that’s voluminous. I think you’re the go to guy for the PBS.
I’ll read it tomorrow.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 12:03 am
1996
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 12:06 am
Not me, Mk50.
kae
18 Dec 12 at 12:08 am
Yes, note that it is an IC report and that year the PC was formed. Also the PDF is not hyperlinked internally…
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:10 am
CL, you should see a therapist about your obsession with abortion.
SteveC
18 Dec 12 at 12:13 am
Dot – I think it was stopped during the Howard years. Not sure if it was replaced by anything else. But note that it wasn’t the government subsidising research in exchange for lower PBS pricing, but the government increasing PBS prices in exchange for the drug companies committing to spending a certain amount of money on research in Australia.
That is, that program did not involve giving the drug companies money in exchange for them agreeing to lower prices for the medicines. If anything the price the government effectively paid for the drugs was lower than the PBS pricing as they also got research performed in Australia (and the money associated with that spent in Australia) that otherwise might not have happened here.
Chris
18 Dec 12 at 12:22 am
That’s a subsidy.
Except it didn’t work.
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:24 am
Hey dot, I need the advice of an econ guru.
I’ve just stumbled across this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_dividend
This idea combined with a Negative Income Tax as complete replacement for the tax and welfare system (probably excluding disabled).
Good idea? Yes/No or score out of 10.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
To add, I’ve noticed Driftforge advocates a similar idea, but I personally didn’t rate his perspective that much.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:29 am
Ever notice the committments were less than the investment? Um…and they got to charge a higher rate than their competitors.
So of course Parke Davis were pissed off when they were not put on the programme. They had an implicit tariff on them.
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:31 am
I don’t know about that argument, John.
Arguably everyone else is also free riding. So do we tax them with a poll tax rated against their net assets?
My view is that Medicare should be two parts: a $3000 voucher per year and on top of that, a HECS style system.
An opt in, basic income (as I prefer consumption taxes), an opt (and sometimes court ordered) in in kind/income managed income assistance programme, educational vouchers, widespread privatisation, the end of wage regulation and a GST capped at 10%, a LVT capped at 2% and the WA royalties system capped at 5% – and no other taxes – or welfare – middle class or corporate.
The only difficult bit is means testing the BI without changing how a NIT / BI & VAT work ideally.
That’s how I’d run taxation, healthcare, education and poverty elimination programmes.
Theoretically there may be better schemes or taxes but that is administratively and politically easier.
Ideally too we’d run regulation and policy in general on a positive cost benefits test. Policies or regulation that fail must go. First up would be a lot of occupational licensing.
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:43 am
thats the LDP policy 30/30
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 12:54 am
Thanks, I’m going to have to analyse that further.
The German (and I’m guessing, Swiss) Free Democratic Party propose the Citizens Dividend, so I’m assuming it must have some merit. I’ll have a look how they propose it should work.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 1:02 am
“CL, you should see a therapist about your obsession with abortion.”
QED.
The left is totally cool with killing children – especially non-white ones.
The amoral animal in the White House even believes babies born alive may licitly be killed. That would be Barack Obama – recently seen shedding a ‘tear’ for children.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 1:07 am
John Mc
I might have seemed glib but basically I agree it is the most efficient and justifiable system for welfare there is. It is also fair.
My problem is that it really does open up more issues of theoretical economics and moral philosophy than you want to deal with. Don’t very poor people get a benefit by being residents of rich countries anyway?
Should they pay taxes to those in poor countries?
They’re also free riding, aren’t they?
I’d say maybe a 9-9.5 out of 10.
As for the NDIS, remember that there are 18 000 disabilities cases a year and the proposal would employ 8000 Commonwealth staff.
Their caseload would be less than three cases per year per staffer.
I reckon I could run the NDIS for about $40 million per annum.
50 staff, $300 000 average cost per staff, all up including buildings, IT etc, wages, $1000 premium for 25000 people.
$40 million. Per annum.
.
18 Dec 12 at 1:10 am
Yeah, it’s too easy for people to get distracted from the core business of a framework that allows citizens to live their life and produce wealth. Everyone is looking for the philosophical magic pudding that’s going to solve all our problems and make the world perfect.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 1:17 am
Two interesting Instapundit links:
UK Daily Mail: Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade.
BBC: Handgun crime ‘up’ despite ban.
Who would have thought that banning law-abiding citizens from owning firearms would place enormous power into the hands of criminals with guns?
I mean, who could have predicted that?
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 1:46 am
Potemkin’s Village
The Gender Wars – Equality of Opportunity is… here
Grigory Potemkin
18 Dec 12 at 3:53 am
Hey Dot
I think this will answer the questions on economics!
http://econstories.tv/2010/06/22/fear-the-boom-and-bust/
Alice
18 Dec 12 at 7:02 am
Seems the fact the politicians are ignoring the extremely complex mental health & children growing up with a father issues while they chase the easy ban all guns headline are not fixing the problems.
Who would’ve thought it?
Token
18 Dec 12 at 8:31 am
Will Labor be calling in their complient and well trained Australian Federal Police lapdogs like they did whenever it may damage their opponents?
LOL. sarc off;
Token
18 Dec 12 at 8:35 am
SteveC, have you watched that video of an abortion in action?
Is your heart so flinty that you do not feel ill watching a human life end?
Sorry, you are a progressive that backs policies that has lured 1,000+ to die at sea. Silly question.
You save your feelings for cattle in abattoirs and such.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 8:38 am
Did the Oz really give Judith’s piece the headline of “No need for anyone to heed this drivel“? That is hilarious.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 8:42 am
Gerard Henderson “discusses” the Ashby judgement and notes the good justice ruled has taken leave of his senses:
Token
18 Dec 12 at 8:50 am
Margaret Simons continues to be wrong and continues to be an arrogant yet dumb ass.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 9:01 am
I see Gerard is following Liberal Party SOP and throwing Ashby under the bus in the hope of saving Brough’s career. One would hope he and Doane have good support around them, not connected to the party.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 9:03 am
No Alice.
You have a lot of unanswered questions on assumptions you cannot really justify. Your definitions are too slippery to be useful except for advancing your own positions.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:17 am
Gun control advocates are mendacious, blockheads or both.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:22 am
Mungo makes a good point about the Catch-22 trapping Ashby: how can he fund an appeal without donations from Coalition-supporting sources, which would invalidate the basis of the appeal by proving Rares was correct in labelling it a conspiracy with partisan motive? Hard to see how an appeal would stand up, unless the kid wins lotto.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 9:32 am
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 9:35 am
When the ship crashed on the Rocks of Christmas Island the flint-hearted left it was “not the time for politics” and “too soon” to make a judgement and the facts needed to be heard first.
When a tragedy happens involving guns those standards disappear and the Left goes ape-sh*t demanding legislation to be rushed through.
Be suspicious.
We are yet to find out the facts of what happened in Connecticut, but the evidence so far is that the perpetrator is a person with a mental illness.
Remember Jared Loughner, once the evidence was gathered it was clear he needed treatment:
Next was the Colorado Cinema killer:
The real issue that should be discussed is treatment of the mentally ill and a deeper discussion on what the rules are to allow people to force people like that to get treatment:
Where do Libertarians stand on such matters?
Token
18 Dec 12 at 9:37 am
Because champerty and maintenance are no longer crimes or torts.
The decision may be ultra vires.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:37 am
Piers Akerman has a look at Henry Ergas’ piece from yesterday:
Cold-Hands
18 Dec 12 at 9:38 am
Did Obama make another speech about poor white people clinging to guns and religion?
Token
18 Dec 12 at 9:39 am
Using his standard, if M0nty ever donated to any cause we have a right to note the case involved is partisan.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 9:41 am
Is anyone saying that Ashby or Brough are going to be charged? No. Nice straw man you have there.
Rares merely ruled that he did not want the courts to be abused as a stalking horse for attacking the government. Face it Dot, that ruling will stand.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 9:46 am
monty
How can a decision like that be regarded as letting Ashby having political liberties uninterfered with?
This is legislatively protected.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:46 am
Then the Government should have a bigger majority and have members that behave themselves.
He ruled that did he…his ruling was also an unhinged rant.
His concern about the Gillard Government is trumped by political liberty.
We should have a rule you can’t sue people because it might bring down a minority Government?
Now THAT’s an abuse of process.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:49 am
You’re flailing, Dot. Your post barely makes sense.
If the Coalition wants to engage in fishing expeditions, searching in vain for a smoking gun to bring down the government, it can do so outside the court system. Judges tend not to appreciate being the pawn in a partisan political game.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 9:52 am
Where better to launch a leadership bid than the thought-free runway of breakfast TV?:
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 9:52 am
You’ve got to him, Dot as he’s now just rambling on about conspiracy theory. Someone send monty some tinfoil.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 9:54 am
Your question about mental illness and institutionalising people to protect society is a good one Token.
One I don’t have a good answer for.
On the one hand they will end up in gaol AFTER they commit a crime.
On the other a pile of corpses….
Reluctantly I’d say 20 dead 6 year olds is the price to pay for lots of non dangerous people being rounded up and institutionalised under the usual bureaucratic arse covering.
Obviously freak shows should be hauled off the streets, however it’s likely the bar will be continually lowered.
Look at the outrageous laws that keep pedos in prison after their sentence is up. There is often calls for other categories to have the same system. Prison by fiat? No thanks…
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 9:54 am
Rares’ concern was not about the government, it was about the process of the court. That is what he was defending, Dot. In this case, Rares ruled that the case was likely to bring the court into disrepute through Ashby’s deliberate actions, which trumped any talk of Ashby’s rights.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 9:54 am
monty
Your knowledge of caselaw and legislation here is lacking.
All of the other similar cases have had the opposite ruling and reasons for the ruling. Go and check the comments from a commercial lawyer’s wesbite.
Political liberty is protected monty. That is inferred constitutionally and by the federal crimes act.
The courts cannot make a rule to stop Ashby suing Slipper because of the precarious nature of Government, but it was okay to sue Mal Colston etc.
They would be abandoning rule of rule. The law must be consistent in its application.
.
18 Dec 12 at 9:57 am
Yes, JournoList 2.0 was busy pushing the “Gettysburg” meme Sunday.
It wasn’t a memorial service for the victims; it was all about Obama. Ugh.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 10:01 am
There is a reason they do not institutionalise everyone they suspect to mentally ill.
We are still working through the abuse cases that resulted from the “progressive” institutionalisation of the mentally ill by state governments agencies.
Addressing the issue and finding a middle ground in cases that shout “disaster” like the Jared Loughner case is critical.
Unfortunately, the Left have a political wedge with Gun Control which they can get a sugar hit in the polls with, and therefore 3 years after the Loughner disaster are determined to avoid dealing with the real issue.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 10:02 am
Token I fear the slippery slope.
The de-institutionalisation of the 80s was a disaster which I saw in real time.
My suburb was near a big facility and over 12 months the numbers of shambling wrecks that turned up on our streets was incredible. After a while they ended up in prison.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 10:05 am
Dot
lighten up. My link was funny!
Alice
18 Dec 12 at 10:06 am
LOL
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:09 am
monty
Please explain how this is a valid decision under our constitution and the human rights charter we signed up to.
If Ashby asserts that Rares didn’t even consider his evidence, how can he declare Ashby to be vexatious or frivolous?
See Momcilovic v The Queen (2011), monty.
The High Court declared a lower court enforcing human rights law and declaring laws were to be considered for amendment to be a political action. Not merely protecting human rights, but any statement from the bench that may be considered political can be found invalid – the courts have no standing to act like this.
If that’s political, Ashby’s lawyers will take Rare’s decision apart with glee.
Parliament is sovereign and if the composition changes and they put confidence in another member to form Government on behalf of her majesty, so be it.
By protecting Gillard, Rares is actually attacking the sovereignty of Parliament.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:11 am
Thanks, Dennis Dotto of the respected law firm Dotto, Vibe & Mabo.
They did not, Dot. Ashby’s texts to Doane exposed that he was not actually suffering, his motive was to change the numbers in the Parliament to further his own career. Under those circumstances, the case was an abuse of process and was rightfully thrown out.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 10:13 am
hey Alice, you should have checked my link out last night, its even better. Same theme.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 10:17 am
Token, you may have noticed that in Australia, the mentally ill have a much harder time killing large numbers of people with semi automatic rifles.
There will always be the mentally ill who do not get treatment that they need or deserve.
Sure, look at mental health services (although providing such government services is not exactly seen as being a speciality of Right wing small government ideology) but it no reason to not look at sensible regulation of the weapons in society that they can get their hands on.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 10:19 am
I agree. Give them longer sentences if need be. Being convicted and then being re-sentenced without a proper hearing should happen.
If you are worried about child protection, then agitate for longer sentences and release conditional on strict psychotherapy.
Agitating for life sentences for child sex abuse comes with a warning. If the disincentive for murder is equal to other crimes, other crimes will be concealed with murders.
If you want life sentences for child sex abuse, you have to logically accept a death penalty for murder.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:21 am
Do they Steve?
It doesn’t matter. You don’t seem to understand the gravity of Rare’s decision.
What he is doing is invalidating any future case where someone may have an ulterior motive.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:23 am
Essential Poll:
FP: LNP 48%, poor old ALP only 36%.
2PP: LNP 55% (+1), ALP 45% (-1)
This time last year:
FP: LNP 47%, ALP 35%
2PP: LNP 54%, ALP 46%.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:24 am
I thought this article in Salon, detailing the sensible provisions that the NRA opposes re gun registration and background checks was very good.
As the article says, America is paying for the paranoia of the NRA and its sympathisers.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 10:27 am
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/gun_equipped_zones/
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:30 am
Yeah sure Steve.
Paranoid, mentally disturbed people really give a hoot about gun laws.
America is actually becoming less violent, even with the insanely counterproductive war on drugs.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:32 am
• There are around 12,000 gun homicides in the US every year, which works out to about 0.0038 per cent of the US population.
• If an identical percentage of our population were to be killed on Australian roads each year, we’d have a road toll of 860.
• Australia’s road toll last year was 1,292, the lowest since 1946.
• Therefore, even given our massive improvement in road safety, it is still more likely that an Australian will die in a car crash than an American is to be shot dead.
• For the record, America’s road toll in 2011 was 32,788.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:33 am
All true, but no games by politicians is going to change the # of weapons in the US held in illegal hands.
Look at Chicago where most firearms are illegal and there are between 5 to 15 deaths due to fire-arms each week which goes unreported (as most is black on black).
All the laws do is remove them from the over 100 million legal gun owners in the US who do no harm.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 10:34 am
No Dot, the onus is on you to explain how it is not constitutional.
LOL, you’re parroting a Greg Barns line. Good old Dennis Dotto, twisting interpretation of the law beyond all reality to suit his political agenda again. A more sober analysis in the Oz by Helen Irving is more instructive.
In any case, that is irrelevant because the ruling was not related to the standing of the government, merely speaking to Ashby’s motives which were exposed in the SMS evidence as being selfish, partisan, duplicitous and unworthy of airing in a court room.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 10:37 am
Today’s game will be to see if that is even mentioned in the zombie media. Yesterday, FXJ was leading its websites with a ludricrous beatup about AbbottAbbottAbbott’s leadership failure because its inhouse Nielsen poll had Libs leading 52-48 2PP.
The Labor backbench now knows Duckbum is a disaster even if the media eunuchs are still blocking their ears.
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 10:37 am
Brutal but true.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 10:38 am
What in the flying Farquhar does that have to do with anything. Christ, Gab.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 10:39 am
Your comments are very similar to those of Jonah Goldberg & John Podheretz relate similar stories from NY in the 1970′s.
They note the de-instiutionalisation was an example of the way “bi-partisanship” can mean government does not look at the policy in deep enough detail.
It is in this discussion that John Podheretz notes the facts about mental health I detailed above.
Further, he and Goldberg note Obama could make a real difference to the address the roots of the problem of gun violence by working to address the ongoing rise of single parent households. In particular returning to a meme from 2008 and addressing the around 70% of black children are raise in single parent families (i.e. no father)
Token
18 Dec 12 at 10:42 am
monty – you really think Helen Irving supports Rare’s decision?
Yet you have the gall to say I’m twisting people’s words.
Where in that Irving piece does Rares have the power to usurp the authority of Parliament? His comments relating to Doane are against a tide of case law.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:43 am
By Gab’s logic, the World Trade Centre terrorist attack involved the equivalent of a mere 10% blip upwards in the US national road toll – hardly something getting all worked up about to the extent the country did, hey?
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 10:46 am
yes, sfb, you are innumerate.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:47 am
Irving says nothing relevant to Rares, Dot. It’s not related at all.
By your logic, no court case would ever be thrown out because it would abrogate the appellant’s human rights. In other words, you’re a fool.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 10:49 am
That’s right ShitFer, but it would be a 30% increase in the gun homicide rate. You’re getting this maths thing. Keep trying!
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 10:49 am
Expect to see a lot like this over the slow news season.
It’s about BPA a toxic compound in large doses, water could be described the same way, that the test has now improved to the extent that trace amounts can now be detected. Pure scare campaign.
TL;DR send money more research needed.
Oh the headline is Plastic Poison Found in 84% of Pregnant Women.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 10:50 am
That is lazy thinking SoB. Pity you can’t have a discussion.
Rather then banging on about banning guns which will not solve the root problems, why not acknowlege the other critical parts of the puzzle:
1. Working to ensure people with Mental Health issues are identified and treated (and don’t get access to guns)
2. Working to ensure more children grow up in stable homes with both parents so the rate of alientation of adolescents drops (and more people can be around to pick up on children with mental health issues that develop in adolescence).
3. Removing illegal guns from criminals
Token
18 Dec 12 at 10:51 am
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 10:51 am
Hey, it’s odd that the love media haven’t mentioned Fast & Furious lately.
Readers might remember that Obama gave “assault weapons” by the truckload to Mexican drug gangs who then used them to kill several hundred men, women and children.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 10:52 am
But ShitFer, seriously, I am of the school that it doesn’t justify – on a cost/benefit ratio, not an ethical analysis – a conventional military operation that’s going to cost thousands of lives. Other courses of action were probably more suitable.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 10:52 am
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 10:53 am
Barnes said something relevant, you bring up Irving, and then tell me the Irving article isn’t relevant. You didn’t rebutt what Barnes said.
You’re not arguing anymore monty. You are just cheerleading for Gillard.
Not what I said monty.
Rare’s decision is simply too far reaching from a public policy standpoint. It also runs contrary to a lot of case law on similar issues.
The upshot is you will not be allowed a cause of action if you have an ulterior motive.
Please. This disqualifies half of the cases before the courts.
.
18 Dec 12 at 10:54 am
I haven’t said that anywhere. You’re just making things up now. You’re very good at that.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 10:54 am
What Gab is saying, Steve, is that the deaths of 20 primary school children are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
That’s reality Monty. One day you may have to live in it. Just like this week 30 Australians will die in motor vehicle accidents. Now, I haven’t heard anyone call a halt to motor vehicle use while we sort this out.
And do you know what? I reckon with absolute certainty the week after next there’ll be another 30. What do you think we should do?
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 10:55 am
…the deaths of 20 primary school children 1000 asylum seekers are an acceptable loss under the circumstances, and we shouldn’t mourn them too hard.
You beat me with that one, CL. I saw this article. There will be more asylum seeker deaths per attempt than US gun deaths per captia. But Monty and Shitfer don’t think we should do anything about them, just the guns.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 10:58 am
And it’s always good to heed the analysis of a man named Mungo.
New questions as fund for MP Craig Thomson tops $150,000.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 10:59 am
Let’s hope this Democrat doesn’t have a gun:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/12/17/texas-democrat-calls-for-shooting-nra-supporters/
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:00 am
The ALP gave Craig Thompson $200,000 as a personal gift in order to keep him from going bankrupt so he could stay in parliament. FWA, stacked with ALP members also engaged in a deliberate go-slow to drag out the matter until required then at the end failed to produce a document that could be used by anyone.
Overt conspiracy with partisan motive when Labor does it?
A-OK.
Some fantasy conjured in the mind of leftists about a staffer fairly suing his boss under the ALP’s own sexual harrasment laws?
EVIL LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!11!!ER@!
(Are you seriously reading Mungo now M0nty? Oh how the mighty have fallen).
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 11:00 am
Dying because you plowed your ute into a creek after sinking 20 cans at a twenty-first birthday party is a lot different to being shocked out of Quiet Time in the classroom by the invasion of an insane man, watching your teacher get a bullet in the head, herded up like sheep in an abbatoir and shot methodically.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 11:00 am
Deomcrat incites violence after shooting:
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:01 am
You’re not “mourning” anyone you disgusting childless shill.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 11:03 am
Bob Carr BA Hons, CWB diverts foreign aid to Australia.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 11:03 am
Dying because you plowed your ute into a creek after sinking 20 cans at a twenty-first birthday party is a lot different to being shocked out of Quiet Time in the classroom by the invasion of an insane man, watching your teacher get a bullet in the head, herded up like sheep in an abbatoir and shot methodically.
And geting shot dead because you broke into someone’s house or tried to rob an old lady is no tragedy either, even though it may not always be completely right.
But you know what Monty, not everyone of the 30 who die on the roads each week is a white male who drinks beer and drives a ute. Quite a few of those 30 are confused beta-males like yourself who are doing the right thing, not drinking and driving carefully. I’m still waiting for your suggestion on what we should do to protect the 60 or so that’s going to die in the next fortnight?
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:06 am
Rudd did Gangnam Style this morning?
Is there a clip?
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 11:07 am
30 people shot dead is just a typical long weekend in Obama’s Chicago. Where guns are banned, just like you want them to be banned elsewhere.
It’s funny how criminals who are already willing to break the law by committing murder aren’t too fussed about breaking the lesser law of having an illegal gun.
You and SfB are like the Cat’s own reason-free zone.
Seriously, you are such a prime fuckwit.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 11:08 am
Apart from calling for people to shoot NRA and their supporters, Democrats also display their racist asses:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/12/17/democrats-react-to-scotts-senate-appointment-with-racist-attacks/
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:08 am
I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents.
Americans have not done all they can to prevent gun homicides. Their laissez-faire policies are a long way off the prudent measures brought in by Howard.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 11:10 am
Did he survive?
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 11:10 am
Why yes, CL, yes there is a clip of Rudd “dancing” Gangham style.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:11 am
Dead set these people are pathological.
SOUTH CAROLINA, the first state to secede, the state that started the war with an attack on Fort Sumpter is sending a black bloke to the Senate.
Bring your good gloves to Hold those doors
OK that is quite funny.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 11:12 am
Plus what Roxon did.
That’s not abuse of process, but what Ashby did was?
That’s the genius of Ashby’s move. Not ending Slipper’s career, but bowling good line and length.
Gillard and Roxon were forced to play shots and their defence and attack has been measured and found to be lacking water and left seriously wanting.
.
18 Dec 12 at 11:13 am
So ban guns in all 50 states, and institute a gun buyback program to get them off the streets. Trucks full of guns sent off to get melted down, just like under Howard. It worked here.
It probably wouldn’t work there. But it’s the right thing to do.
m0nty
18 Dec 12 at 11:14 am
They don’t make a damned difference.
You are choosing to be wilfully ignorant.
.
18 Dec 12 at 11:14 am
Rudd looked like a twerp. The sheila looked like a goose as well.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 11:14 am
I put a link to an article in Salon that noted:
* the NRA has a leadership that literally thinks every man and woman in America should be encouraged to be armed for their own safety.
* the NRA has refused to be part of Presidential discussions about gun control after mass shootings
It is not the Left that’s having an issue with “not having a conversation” here.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 11:15 am
Just today:
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:18 am
I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents
Americans want the benefits of gun ownership just like we want the benefits of motor vehicle use. If your working around the edges to put in safety checks while allowing people to exercise their freedom to obtain the benefits, you’re doing the right thing. If you’re going to deny them the benefits because it has another outcome that you personally prefer, you’re following a zero sum game that leads to the bottom. Empowering people works even though sometimes it has a minority of unwanted outcomes. Disempowering people leads to overall failure, if not immediately then definitely in time.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:19 am
Viz,.
1. America is actually a safe place, despite the random, sensationalised shootings, and inner city violence.
2. American is becoming less and less violent.
3. Canada has more guns per person and more liberal laws and has less shootings, suicides and violent crime, generally (or used to around the time of the Columbine massacre).
4. UK has some of the worst gun crime stats in the world.
5. Switzerland shows that proliferation is not the issue.
6. Even with such massacres, the Australian crime and gun violence rates were dropping since the 1970s. In the 1950s we had very liberal gun laws and a death penalty – very low gun and violent crime save for suicides – which merely substitute for other methods when guns are restricted.
7. People who want to kill a score of children do not have a regard for the law anyway. Illegally obtaining a gun is the last of their concerns. Ditto for violent criminals in the Uk and NSW after tough handgun laws were passed.
.
18 Dec 12 at 11:19 am
Remember when you’re having a mug shot taken to make sure your classy diamond tongue piercing is on view.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 11:20 am
It probably wouldn’t work there. But it’s the right thing to do.
In that sentence, Monty, you summarise why everything you say is a load of shit to be ridiculed and ignored!
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:21 am
A costly, futile gesture would please you. Hardly, surprising.
Keith
18 Dec 12 at 11:22 am
LOL
As of February 2012 there’s more than 766,504 registered guns in NSW.
There’s 24 drive by shootings a month in Sydney.
What definition of “worked” are you using?
Also the US have this little thing called the Bill of Rights m0nty you clown in which the right to own a gun is number two on the list.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 11:23 am
So you finally admit you are and always have been part of the left Steve.
Good for you! About time you stopped this faux conservative crap.
_________________________
A “conversation” means a 2 way dialog addressing all issues.
That Salon article repeats the sins you accuse the NRA of and does not discuss all the issues, rther demands the gun control agenda be approved OR ELSE you are not serious about having a dialog.
Where does it acknowledge that those who jumped quickly to blame Sarah Palin for the Loughner shooting were acting cynically and crassly?
More lazy left wing thinking from Steve.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 11:24 am
the NRA has refused to be part of Presidential discussions about gun control after mass shootings……..It is not the Left that’s having an issue with “not having a conversation” here.
You don’t have these discussions straight after mass shootings. Just like you don’t have a court case for someone while the media and the public are baying for their blood. It won’t provide a reasoned and fair trial. But it is exactly what we’re seeing the media and their ilk do now. It’s exactly what Howard did in 1996.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:25 am
No it’s just once again cynically abusing a tragedy to take the “opportunity” to advocate its politics.
As usual.
But perhaps that’s how the left “mourns” – by going on the political attack after every tragedy.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 11:27 am
…not always, when their policies dirrectly lead to avoidable deaths it is “too soon”.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 11:30 am
“You don’t have these discussions straight after mass shootings.”
I agree with the sentiment, but the problem is there are so many mass shootings that the window for discussion isn’t big enough for such a controversial policy topic that by its nature will take a long time to get through.
Jarrah
18 Dec 12 at 11:30 am
So?
The NRA is neither a monolithic organization, nor does it get to vote in any election.
The NRA is simply made up of millions of ordinary American citizens – I’m a member, my sisters are members, my Mom & Dad are members – each of whom get exactly one vote in every election just as any other private individual does. It’s not some supernatural monster, and its only power comes from its citizen-members. It can’t force anyone to vote for this, that or the other. It’s just a group, like Greenpeace or African Americans for Obama.
You’re seriously deranged.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 11:31 am
Obama’s Gettysburg address, MkII?
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:32 am
Jeff Kennett giving a rather bizarre eulogy for Dame Murdoch.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:37 am
Oh Token, they were just in “mourning” when frothing at the mouth they all blamed Sarah Palin and the Tea Party after a leftist nutjob shot a female democrat politician he had an obsession with.
Honest mistake, nothing to do with the left’s long history of co-opting and abusing tradegies for their own political gain.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 11:37 am
1000th?
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:37 am
We all know Krugman is a hack. I’ve always wanted to interview him on TV and patiently tease out “When should the US debt be paid back” and keep repeating it until he admits “Never.”
Well we don’t have to wait.
Keynesian doctrine be damned. Full speed spending forever.
Thanks Paul.
Actually its probably worth a post of its own.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 11:37 am
Damn you, Twostix
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 11:38 am
It is a pity that 3 years on, with all the evidence about Loughner from when he gave that speech 3 years ago, Obama shows has not learned anything.
Seriously, Obama could do something about the attitude of black men toward their children, he is a hero to the black community, but he does not have the ticker to be the transformational leader on the issue.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 11:39 am
What we are seeing here is the continuation of the paranoid attitude of the NRA (down under division) which throws up a whole smokescreen of reasons why it won’t countenance any better regulation of gun ownership, arguing alternatively that nothing will work, nothing is worth doing unless the results are total effectiveness, and mixing up issues no end (continually talking about career criminals and guns when the case in question raises legally purchased guns used by the mentally ill, eg).
It’s all driven by paranoia that the US could, even if it wanted to, disarm the “law-abiding” populace generally; and that “armed militia” are somehow relevant today as thwarting government tyranny.
CL and Mk50 glibly talk about “Leftism” as a mental illness.
It’s the nutty Right that has the real issues with mental health in the US and here.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 11:39 am
I agree with the sentiment, but the problem is there are so many mass shootings that the window for discussion isn’t big enough for such a controversial policy topic that by its nature will take a long time to get through.
One, not really true. 9,100 Americans are murdered each year with guns. 99% don’t get the profile this one does (for completely understandable reasons).
Two, it’s the same with court cases. There will always be public opinion and media attention, but you have to work with it while still affording a fair and speedy trial. That’s completely not what’s happening with this issue. I suppose we couldn’t expect anything different, but it’s definitely not what’s happening.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:40 am
“I think we’re doing all we can in Australia, realistically, to prevent motor vehicle accidents. Americans have not done all they can to prevent gun homicides.”
Reminds me of this graphic.
Jarrah
18 Dec 12 at 11:40 am
???
I don’t need a cooling off period to buy a car.
.
18 Dec 12 at 11:43 am
So you are saying Jared Loughner did not have serious mental health issues? The same for Colorado cinema killer?
Are you blaming it all on the NRA?
Steve, it is good you admitted you are on the Left, but like so many who are with you on the irrational side of politics, you don’t have the comprehension skills necessary for the coversation you say you desperate want.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 11:44 am
This makes the Democrat criticism of Reagan spending too much look really, really shallow.
.
18 Dec 12 at 11:44 am
What we are seeing here is the continuation of the paranoid attitude
ShitFer, we’re not paranoid. It is a simple fact that following the ideas of people like you will lead us to hell in a hand basket. It would be like having the policies of the Greens governing the country. It would be totally idealistic and it does not work. The failed European states – Greece, the problems in the UK and France – are due to putting ideas from people like you into place. The US continues to have an economy three times the size of the next one and leads the world in the western model precisely because it rejects ideas like yours. When it fails to do that it will also just become another failed western state.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:45 am
“One, not really true.”
If a national discussion on guns takes just six months, that exceeds the average gap between mass shootings in the US (62 in the last 30 years). So, prima facie, it’s true.
Jarrah
18 Dec 12 at 11:46 am
Reminds me of this graphic.
Jarrah, that’s just the Swiss model. Works completely fine as well. It’s just a different approach.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:48 am
end italics. Sorry.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:49 am
If a national discussion on guns takes just six months, that exceeds the average gap between mass shootings in the US (62 in the last 30 years). So, prima facie, it’s true.
Prima facie, yes, but on analysis no. They don’t get this profile because they don’t all have school children being murdered in wealthy suburbs like most of us live in. The last one I can quote is Columbine and I’m sure most people are like me. I know there’s 9100 gun murders, but that’s a different type of less emotional knowledge.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 11:52 am
Test
Rudiau
18 Dec 12 at 11:54 am
Token, you might notice I have given up responding to you because your points are just too confoundingly scattergun, and stupid, to bother answering.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 11:58 am
Shorter JohnMc: America should not look at tighter gun control because “it’s awesome”.
Very convincing.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 12:01 pm
And completely opposite to what someone like you would propose it should look like. That’s even more convincing.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:03 pm
When do reckon Greece will start up its space program?
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:04 pm
Facts That Don’t Fit the News Media’s Anti-Gun Narrative
Clackamas Mall Shooter Was Confronted By Concealed Carrier (Oregon)
Pinched from SDA.
Rudiau
18 Dec 12 at 12:08 pm
Of course, no one should be surprised.
The same large chunk of the Right that hates the idea of any additional gun control at all is also on board with the “climate change is a socialist con job” meme.
As with this current shooting, the problem is that this line of paranoid thinking is not just stuffing up the lives of those who subscribe to it, it’s affecting other people.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 12:09 pm
More guns are reducing the crime rate Steve.
I know you like to abuse science, but please, this is a serious matter.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 12:12 pm
Wow. That is leftism explained perfectly.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 12:15 pm
As with this current shooting, the problem is that this line of paranoid thinking is not just stuffing up the lives of those who subscribe to it, it’s affecting other people.
It’s exactly the same here. I don’t want your crap ideas lowering my standard of living. It’s not like you don’t want to impose your ideas on other people. If anything, it’s my side that believes in leaving people alone to pursue their own happiness.
I think part of the key is to have devolution of power, so people can choose where they live away from people they’re less likely to want to be near. If we were US citizens you’d live in California or New York, and I’d live in Texas or New Hampshire.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:15 pm
If anyone doubts very large feral cats, check out these domestic ones:
http://www.neatorama.com/2006/05/08/top-15-amazingly-ginormous-fat-cats/
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/a-new-worlds-longest-cat/
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:16 pm
…and yes…the first one is fake.
.
18 Dec 12 at 12:17 pm
We know you are not that bright.
Thanks for underlying the point you don’t have the intellect to do more than to regurgitate your comrades on the Left “emoting”.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 12:17 pm
What a dimwit.
You can take that a collective statement.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 12:21 pm
You’re so bizarrely ignorant steve. You argue the typical dur,dur aussie leftist fantasy that the US is some anarchic wild west where you can just decide one day to walk into a shop and come out with an M16 and bazooka.
All US states and cities already have various degrees of gun restrictions. The shooter in this case was denied a gun under his states gun laws. The highest gun crime is in the states with the toughest gun laws.
None of this enters into the mind of the nutjob leftist who we see doesn’t actually care about careful gun regulation. No it’s not the gun laws you lot care about rather it’s the desire for the central government to take control of them, that’s what the real driving force is here. You’ll cannot stand that there’s an area of power in the US that can’t be ruled by decree – that a significant power remains with the state governments and the people who decide on what level of regulation they are comfortable with. That’s the real “problem”.
Finally in the reams of “the US must ban guns!111″ posts you don’t even acknowledge the fact that the right to own a gun is explicitly outlined in the US constitution and for the Federal Government to “overrule” that and not be struck down by this or future supreme courts or start a civil war would require an amendment.
Which with half the states in republican hands just isn’t ever going to happen.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 12:29 pm
Token, you may have noticed that in Australia, the mentally ill have a much harder time killing large numbers of people with semi automatic rifles.
Oh, yes, but it was damn easy for one to incinerate 15 souls on one occasion with nothing more than some accelerant and a match.
dover_beach
18 Dec 12 at 12:30 pm
Every state in the US has gun control you weirdo nutjob.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 12:31 pm
The fact that extremist leftwing dogma parrots like Dogshit and the hamster roam sites like this will be remembered as one of the signature characteristics of the era when an extremist leftwing government brought all of our fringe fruitcakes into the open because the fruitcakes in Canberra gave them the feeling of an official imprimatur.
It’d be funny if they weren’t ransacking the national treasury.
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 12:33 pm
If its so critical to have the discussion about guns, before the facts are settled, maybe its time to ahve the discussion about mental illness as well.
You can see this is a dual strategy that targets the federal government & states.
Thank goodness someone was paying attention to the issues raised by Fort Hood (why is that shooting “forgotten”), Arizona, Colorado, Michigan & now Conneticut.
Token
18 Dec 12 at 12:33 pm
Seriously, is there anyone in the US that gives a sh*t as to what non-resident, non-voting, non-taxpaying Australians think about how they manage their affairs?
The faux outpouring of grief in the Australian media is sickening – it’s putrid moral posturing with an eye on selling more fish wrappers.
boy on a bike
18 Dec 12 at 12:35 pm
Fuckwit. Mentally ill people cannot legally purchase guns.
In the current case, the shooter tried to purchase weapons legally but was knocked back. So he stole them instead.
So we’re dealing with an unlicensed mentally ill youth, with stolen guns, carrying them illegally (double – both because CT doesn’t give carry permits to under-21s and because they were stolen), illegally breaking into a school, illegally taking them into a designated gun-free zone, and illegally murdering people with them.
You don’t react to tragedies caused by people like that by disarming law-abiding citizens like my baby sister, who has never broken a law in her life.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 12:36 pm
The person who thinks that using electricty is going to end the world is calling other people “paranoid”.
Deranged.
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 12:37 pm
Every state in the US has gun control you weirdo nutjob.
Except New Hampshire – which has some, but pretty much none – and is statistically the safest US state for gun crime and overall homicide!
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:37 pm
That’s a coincidence, John Mc.
dover_beach
18 Dec 12 at 12:42 pm
Hey SfB,
you didn’t answer my question yesterday, what kind of rape is it that women fear least?
Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 12:43 pm
That’s a coincidence, John Mc.
I think that’s an oversimplification. The reason they don’t have gun laws is because they’ve never needed them. The reason they’ve never needed them is due to a number of other very critical factors they’ve always got right since the state was created………………..I’d love to discuss them but I’ve really got to stop blogging!!!
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 12:47 pm
SfB is making sense. Increase my meds STAT.
But seriously, given that bugger all of the posters here live in the USA and that we don’t have a Constitutional right to bear them… emotionally arguing the whole guns thing one way or the other is kinda silly. Especially when specific scenarios are floated or bigots start making hysterical generalisations (yeah, I’m looking at you there numbers).
The whole thing is turning (mostly) into a fracas between two camps; those who roll their eyes at Americans and those who see guns conferring talismanic powers. In Australia, we just don’t have a dog in the guns fight. There are plenty of other relevant issues that are closer to home such as mental health.
Derp
18 Dec 12 at 12:51 pm
Undeserving of a response, Chunkwart.
By the way, I take it everyone here really appreciates the way guns are sold in the US as a way a bloke can affirm his “manhood”.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 12:53 pm
John Mc, I’m was just being mischievous.
dover_beach
18 Dec 12 at 12:53 pm
sfb, since you never responded yesterday; do you think it appropriate that husbands and boyfriends are counted in the same category as the local green grocer or doorman in sexual assault/ rape stats, for example?
dover_beach
18 Dec 12 at 12:56 pm
No time now, d-b. It’s a complicated issue.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 1:00 pm
Shorter SFB: “Me SFB, Me don’t understand”
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 1:02 pm
Rape is rape but SFB – the self-appointed spokeswoman for women everywhere – thinks some rapes are worse than others. Ah, the lefty mindset is a wonder to behold.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 1:04 pm
Sure he is.
The differing gun laws in 52 states in the USA are all the NRA’s doing and the US hasn’t been having a “conversation” about gun regulation for thirty years now.
LOL
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 1:04 pm
Very interesting article Token. I wonder if our laws are similar?
I’m not sure the school shooter would have been stopped by these laws, it would probably have taken a ‘complaint’ by his Mum to have action started under those criteria.
Tell us how it is, mate! lol
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 1:05 pm
Why would someone even try to argue for gun control?
It is just an exercise in demonising a special interest group that will be defensive.
.
18 Dec 12 at 1:05 pm
Could Sinc put up a Cat poll like Blair’s to see if Dogshit is our Leftist Shemale of the Year?
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 1:07 pm
This reflects the pervasive violent mindset that is the problem in the US. The gun issue is simply symptomatic of it.
The guy reminds me of the man who visited the doctor saying there was a buzzing in his ears. The doctor gave him some medicine and he returned a week later.
“So are you better now?” asks the doctor.
“Yes thanks”, says the man. “The buzzing is a lot louder now!”
Viva
18 Dec 12 at 1:09 pm
Let’s examine the science:
In the last 30 years the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere has gone up an agreed shitload and yet the temperature hasn’t moved statistically.
In the last 30 years the number of guns in the US has doubled and yet the murder rate has halved.
The left are science deniers.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 1:12 pm
At this stage it’s because they’re authoritarian statists who don’t like that state governments determine their own gun regulations in line with the wishes of their electorates. Instead they simply want Obama to take power by force – reject the wishes of 100 million people and decree guns “regulated” exactly in line with their rejected-at-the-ballot-box demands and in direct violation of the constitution.
In doing so they self-fulfill the prophesy (while mocking it) that had the right to own a gun set as the second most important right in the US constitution in the first place.
Isn’t that weird?
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 1:19 pm
Viva, it is safer to go out at night in NYC than Melbourne or Sydney.
dover_beach
18 Dec 12 at 1:19 pm
I like the cut of your jib IT.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 1:19 pm
Of course you do, Chunkwart.
You’re as stupid and ignorant as he is in recognising what’s happening in the world and causal relationships.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 1:24 pm
Gab’s making silly comments about me again.
Maybe if I buy a semi automatic
penis enhancergun as sold by Bushmaster, she’ll think better of me.steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 1:26 pm
The US is a lot less violent a place than Australia.
They certainly don’t have drunken lunatics glassing each other everywhere and outside of black neighbourhoods you’ve got more chance of dying from a bee sting than a gun shot.
You should save up and take a holiday there, Viva. You’ll be amazed at the reality versus the media myth.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 1:26 pm
SFB, you’ve got nothing but abuse in your arsenal.
—————–
About time too:
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/magistrate-oshane-not-impartial-hearing/story-e6frfku9-1226539626673#ixzz2FMmj0fE1
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 1:26 pm
Actually, the left are racist, ageist and sexist.
Hundreds of black males are gunned down each month, and the left doesn’t give a bugger.
A bunch of very young white females are gunned down, and they go bonkers.
boy on a bike
18 Dec 12 at 1:28 pm
Can anyone tell me what sort of carbine this Israeli teacher is lugging around?
boy on a bike
18 Dec 12 at 1:29 pm
Gab, you’re very silly.
You insert yourself into a thread with a gratuitous insult to me, then in response come back with “you only abuse when you debate”.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 1:29 pm
Go back over your comments today, SFB. Mostly they’re just abusive.
Gab
18 Dec 12 at 1:31 pm
Just hurry up and remove her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Kanaan#White_City_Police_shooting:_22_December_1998
On 29 November 1999 Magistrate Pat O’Shane discharged Kanaan from standing trial in relation to the White City shooting. Ms O’Shane called the two police officers “stupid, reckless and foolhardy” and said that “the circumstances in which constables Patrech and Fotopoulos became involved with…Kanaan and his cohorts…indicated police harassment of youth” and there was “not a shred of evidence which gives rise to any factual or reasonable cause on the part of these police to chase these young fellows on this particular night.” The Director of Public Prosecutions was not impressed and ordered that Kanaan stand trial on the basis of an ex-officio indictment
Yeah…da yoof…a 24 year old triple murderer.
More here
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/again-the-law-shoots-and-misses/2006/06/04/1149359604861.html
But the consequences for her actions stand in stark contrast to the consequences for the two police officers she upbraided.
Constable Patrech was shot and wounded by Kanaan and is still troubled by his injuries. Constable Fotopoulos was later driven off the force for no good reason, and driven almost to despair.
And O’Shane? She continues to be treated by the legal establishment as the cat with 99 lives.
.
18 Dec 12 at 1:33 pm
There’s also more guns than ever in NSW – nearly a million registered to private citizens easily double that for the true number.
The left genuinely think there’s no guns in Australia anymore which is yet another example of the fantasy world they create then argue within.
“Gun laws work – just look at us in Australia! Perfect! No guns allowed here in Australia!”
“There’s more guns than ever”.
“OMG we need more gun laws!”
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 1:35 pm
So do you troll with the moniker “Capricornia of Potts Point” at Blair’s, or were all Aussie anti-gun nuts sent a single set of retarded comments to post on various blogs?
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 1:35 pm
I noticed that as well. It’s a small (blogging) world.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 1:40 pm
So Steve, tell me again what the causal relationship between CO2 and temperature is. Is that the one where there has been an exponential rise in one and no rise in the other?
Fuckwit.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 1:41 pm
I often wondered who on Earth (other than Mr Anne Summers) would take anything written by that relic from the 70′s Mungo MacCallum seriously.
Now I know.
H B Bear
18 Dec 12 at 1:41 pm
I have to say that there is a lot of bullshit being written about the so-called culture of violence in the US right now, mostly from people who have never lived there. Well I have and I can tell you that I never felt the slightest bit unsafe in the major cities I lived in or visited.
I spent three and a half years living in Houston where, horror of all horrors, concealed carry is legal! I am no NRA sympathiser, but neither am I a gun control nut. The overwhelming majority of people who own guns in the US are responsible and wouldn’t burst into a school and kill a bunch of people.
I had some pre-conceived ideas about the US and guns before I went there, but let me tell you that when I left I didn’t have anywhere near the worries I did before. Overall, the country is very, very safe. Like any place, there are some neighbourhoods that you wouldn’t walk around in at night, but they exist in every place. Hell, I’d be more likely to venture out in the downtown area of most American cities than I would in Perth late at night.
The very worst time to have a debate about guns is right after one of these incidents. Emotions run far too high on both sides. I’m all for a discussion to happen, but how about people being left to bury their loved ones first eh?
And others are right, why in Australia do we care about this? We are not America.
tbh
18 Dec 12 at 1:42 pm
Acting Coalition leader Julie Bishop had a great line: “The Gillard government has now made itself the third largest recipient of foreign aid.”
Cold-Hands
18 Dec 12 at 1:43 pm
Without wishing to engage in the gun “debate,” (because I am not partial to having my masculinity/sexuality/penis ownership questioned), and without wishing to bring down torrents of analogies between the Newtown victims and foetii/zygotes (only because they were living, sentient bearers of many people’s love and hopes) can I just ask the Cat’s gun enthusiasts/advocates – quite seriously – what they suggest as to how we can ensure that a fruit-loop is not able to walk around a primary school with a combat weapon snuffing out kids?
James in Melbourne
18 Dec 12 at 1:45 pm
You can’t.
With or without gun laws.
Shit happens.
Let’s say I’m the Premier of QLD a few years ago:
‘Mr Premier, how can you assure another massacre like what happened at Childers never happens again’
I couldn’t give you an honest answer without admitting impotence.
.
18 Dec 12 at 1:48 pm
Maybe there is nothing we can do. No one wants to admit that, but it’s most likely true.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 1:48 pm
Look at the BTK murderer. A serial killer, not a mass murderer, but he was in low level law enforcement and a church deacon.
You don’t have to be crazy to commit such evil acts, either.
.
18 Dec 12 at 1:50 pm
IT has a point: there are some things that can’t be stopped. Who would have thought to stop Timothy McVeigh? Someone who is sufficiently motivated to kill a bunch of people will find a way to do it. All we can do is to try and identify those at highest risk of doing something before they do it. Even that is flawed though.
tbh
18 Dec 12 at 1:57 pm
A near term baby isn’t a “living, sentient bearer of peoples loves and hopes”?
What depravity is this?
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 2:04 pm
But the left can fix everything. Already, they have worked out how to control the climate. It just requires a well-funded leftwing academic grantocracy. They guarantee results by the 22nd century.
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 2:06 pm
The Scrooge Left: The Global Mail axes 20% of its staff a week before christmas.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/12/18/wood-slices-global-mail-staff-woos-guardian-to-oz/
twostix
18 Dec 12 at 2:12 pm
If we are pulling money out of aid programs to pay for asylum costs, I bet we can safely assume the budget contingency reserve is empty
Dan
18 Dec 12 at 2:12 pm
What I meant, Twostix – hoping, and seemingly failing, to keep the a-word out of it – is that they could talk back to you; that having been born, they were KIDS.
Fufuxake.
James in Melbourne
18 Dec 12 at 2:23 pm
These things can’t be stopped, but, at least in the US where a greater proportion of people are skilled in their use, having staff allowed to be armed could cut the consequences by an order of magnitude.
DriftForge
18 Dec 12 at 2:26 pm
Well, d’uh.
The overwhelming majority also have nothing to fear from better gun registration laws, better background checking, and restrictions on things like high capacity magazines and limitations on the type of military style weaponry available to the person on the street.
The fact that most people don’t drink drive doesn’t stop countries regulating in detail the consequences of drink driving, even though everyone knows it will still happen to some degree.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 2:27 pm
James in Melbourne, if you want to look at the effects, effectiveness and unwanted causes of using laws to stop mass killings in civil society, both with guns and otherwise, I recommend you make a study of the Israeli experience. It’s covers every conceivable situation you’ve though of and some more. Even have a look Israeli High Court rulings regarding civil liberties and the use of barricades and searches.
John Mc
18 Dec 12 at 2:31 pm
Ah I knew the Global Mail was a loser, they changed the format to a normal site, not the side scrolling codswallop it had before.
Indeed.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 2:32 pm
I have to agree: side scrolling is unnatural.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 2:34 pm
Punishing drivers for drink driving — after they break the law — is not analogous to regulating what type of car people who haven’t broken the law are allowed to have.
You’re not even making sense anymore, SfB.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 2:35 pm
Stop abusing science, Steve. Your emotions are out of control.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 2:36 pm
Better background checking: yes.
Restricting auto and semi-auto weapons: I don’t know that it would make the slightest bit of difference
tbh
18 Dec 12 at 2:39 pm
WTF sdog? Since when has the perverted liar ever made sense? Every time that he comes here and makes some stupid assertion or links to some far left whacko website, someone tears him a new one and proves him to be a nonsensical nutjob zealot.
Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 2:41 pm
He’s delusional, he could buy the Fairfax metro papers for 20 cents and rebadge them as Guardian Australia. He wouldn’t need to change staff.
Honestly these people live in a parallel universe.
DaveF
18 Dec 12 at 2:43 pm
Auto weapons are almost impossible to get anyway. It’s hard to see how they could be much more “restricted”:
Media myths on ‘assault weapons’ and ‘semiautomatic firearms’
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 2:46 pm
Yes, HC. I erred.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 2:49 pm
sdog: different drivers are regulated differently as to what levels of alcohol they can have in their system, and most people follow the regulations.
If caught, they are prevented from using any car that they have for a period.
It is a potentially fatal matter which is heavily regulated, and how it has been regulated has been altered over time in the interests of decreasing fatalities.
The analogy to regulation of gun ownership is not perfect, but it has many aspects that are comparable.
Let’s face it: this whole “making the perfect the enemy of the good” is just a big smokescreen against rational discussion of how to reduce risk in an area where NRA types are paranoid about government.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 2:49 pm
A few days ago someone intimated that a prominent media personality may be clouded in their perspective by attending games of footy with the first
ladybloke. Bolt spills the beans on who it is, quelle surprise!Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 2:51 pm
Steve, is the US homicide rate half what it was when assault rifles were banned? Yes or no?
Is the overall US crime rate falling a like a stone despite a decade long gun buying binge? Yes or no?
Stop rejecting science. Embrace it and let the truth be your friend.
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 2:53 pm
Just when you thought they couldn’t get any more weird:
Labor a major recipient of own foreign aid.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 2:54 pm
Anyone working at The Global Mail should really regard themselves as unemployed.
Going on Ol’ Leathery’s Abbott Hour from time to time doesn’t count either.
H B Bear
18 Dec 12 at 2:54 pm
Steve, if you can’t see what’s wrong with your analogy I can’t really help you.
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 2:54 pm
Wow. Abbo ten points in front.
Great year, Jules.
LOL.
C.L.
18 Dec 12 at 2:58 pm
Misogynist.
H B Bear
18 Dec 12 at 3:02 pm
Who wants to be helped by a dog with an entire family in the NRA, with an unhealthy obsession with women carrying guns to prevent rape?
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 3:03 pm
IT, you have demonstrated inability to understand causation, so what’s the point of trying to explain to you the ways in which your simple minded “facts” are wrong?
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 3:06 pm
So you think that there is no causation between guns and crime and yet you want to ban them?
Why don’t we introduce a bear patrol tax instead?
Infidel Tiger
18 Dec 12 at 3:08 pm
It wasn’t IT who asked you to justify your “causation” pervert.
I repeat,
Huckleberry Chunkwot
18 Dec 12 at 3:11 pm
Arm a few teachers. 10% would be more than sufficient.
I know we like to think of teachers as a bunch of soft left pinkos in skirts, but in amongst them are the conservative sleepers who are hunters, sporting shooters or ex-military that could be authorized to carry in a trice.
Boy on a bike
18 Dec 12 at 3:13 pm
The Guardian-on-the-Yarra to be replaced by the Guardian-on-the-Interwebs. Media diversity = more versions of wrong.
Lefty Wotif guy seems to enjoy losing money. Should talk to Gina and Packer – they seem to have the same affliction.
H B Bear
18 Dec 12 at 3:14 pm
Good article at Slate about the encouragement of paranoia by the NRA, and their long standing and transparent strategy of “this would be an inappropriate time to talk about gun control” which enables them never to have an appropriate time to talk about it.
They really are creeps.
steve from brisbane
18 Dec 12 at 3:20 pm
Not nearly as creepy as your behaviour here, Dogshit.
Tom
18 Dec 12 at 3:23 pm
Even if you wanted to assume that the majority of American teachers are Democrats…
“Republicans are still more likely to report gun ownership, but the number of Democratic gun owners spiked dramatically — rising from 30 percent in 2009 to 40 percent this year [2011].”
sdog
18 Dec 12 at 3:24 pm