Environmentalist hit by asteroid

This is quite extraordinary. It is a post about an environmentalist, Mark Lynas, who according to the article had led the fight against GMOs [genetically modified organisms (I'm guessing what the "O" stands for)] who now says he was completely wrong!

I want to start with some apologies. For the record, here and upfront, I apologise for having spent several years ripping up GM crops. I am also sorry that I helped to start the anti-GM movement back in the mid 1990s, and that I thereby assisted in demonising an important technological option which can be used to benefit the environment.

As an environmentalist, and someone who believes that everyone in this world has a right to a healthy and nutritious diet of their choosing, I could not have chosen a more counter-productive path. I now regret it completely.

So I guess you’ll be wondering—what happened between 1995 and now that made me not only change my mind but come here and admit it? Well, the answer is fairly simple: I discovered science, and in the process I hope I became a better environmentalist.

He’s not totally Mr Seen-the-Light since he makes this analogy, “to vilify GMOs is to be as anti-science as climate-change deniers” but it is remarkable all the same. No one on the left does this. Usually, to keep their friends and get invited to all the right parties, they just go quiet. Seldom do they put out 5000 word manifestos about how wrong they had been. Maybe it’s enough that he has swapped over to global warming to stay onside with the rest of his crowd. But still, you must give him credit for this, late to the party though he may have been:

The GM debate is over. It is finished. We no longer need to discuss whether or not it is safe. . . . You are more likely to get hit by an asteroid than to get hurt by GM food.

That’s about the same likelihood as drowning because the seas have risen, but that’s still an issue in play. Maybe twenty years from now we will hear from Michael Mann about how wrong the global warming scares had been (around the time the next ice age begins). In the meantime, this will have to do.

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89 Responses to Environmentalist hit by asteroid

  1. Cold-Hands

    Tim Blair covered this too.
    In a further sign of incipient rationality, Lynas pushes for Nuclear Power to defeat the Glowball Worming. Baby steps obviously, but a hopeful sign overall.

  2. NoFixedAddress

    nahhh… wait till the Arrogant Blind Collective finish with him.

  3. I smell a rat. Have the New Communists found a ‘use’ for GMO technology?

  4. NoFixedAddress

    @Forester

    Good discussion on the ethics and legals by Michael Crichton

  5. William Bragg

    No one on the left does this.

    And this from a fully paid up member of the Zombie Economics crew at the Cat which, in the face of the GFC, continually seeks to befuddle and obfuscate rather than admitting the primary responsibility of right wing economics and its reliance on markets for that crises. LOL.

  6. Jarrah

    “to vilify GMOs is to be as anti-science as climate-change deniers”

    Spot on. That’s why I’m pro-nuclear, pro-GM, and anti-AGW ‘scepticism’. I also make sure that anyone who boasts about “buying local food” gets politely informed about how much more damaging for the environment that can be.

  7. 2dogs

    If he is now pro-science, he should drop any objection to nuclear power.

  8. manalive

    That’s why I’m pro-nuclear, pro-GM, and anti-AGW ‘scepticism’ …

    I’m anti-AGW ‘scepticism’ too, most anti-dangerous-human-induced-global-warming persons are.

  9. blogstrop

    Discovering science instead of “science” is a big step for all of these media misleaders to take.

  10. blogstrop

    Oh, Braggie, so sad, so angry.

  11. manalive

    Allow me re-phrase my last comment:
    I’m anti-AGW ‘scepticism’ too, most anti-dangerous-human-induced-global-warming -hysteria persons are.

  12. James of the Glens

    Poor Billy Bragg, it’s getting hard to distinguish his cut and pastes from the spew of an auto-text scanner over Marx’s manifesto.

    But, tally ho, a bit of sport never goes astray, so keep ‘em coming, Billy; the grey homogenised void of resent and envy is your lot to fill and ours to whip.

  13. The Old and Unimproved Dave

    Seeing as how Leftists seem very keen to genetically modified voters, it’s a wonder that they’re so hung up on genetically modified plants.

  14. Grey

    “You are more likely to get hit by an asteroid than to get hurt by GM food.”
    Shows a curious lack of imagination, how about you are walking in a plantation during a storm and you get hit by a falling GM tree?

    Actually their very real potential risks both to the environment and to human health from GM plants – and I haven’t seen any evidence that these risks are being well managed yet.
    I guess we will have to fuck something up really badly before we get serious about risk management in this area. That’s human nature.

  15. Louis Hissink

    Willy,

    bragging again? Crises? We missed one then, or another fabrication from left stage?

  16. Louis Hissink

    GM trees don’t exist as human don’t eat trees. Hence the risk is 0 and needs no management.

  17. 2dogs

    “the primary responsibility of right wing economics and its reliance on markets for that crises”

    Blame for the GFC lies primarily with:

    1. The Basel convention, which promoted rules that:
    a. crowded out banker’s own judgements as to risk
    (cf Bruno Frey on a constitution for knaves);
    b. created systemic risk by having everyone follow
    them.

    2. The rating agencies that failed to properly assess securities.

    The bankers, once one allows that they were deceived by the ratings agencies, actually had conservative balance sheet positions – more heavily weighted in AAA securities than they needed to be. There was really no bonus-driven risk taking as has been alleged.

  18. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Ghey:

    Actually their very real potential risks both to the environment and to human health from GM plants – and I haven’t seen any evidence that these risks are being well managed yet.

    You really are spectacularly gullible.

    Do you eat bread?

    Then understand that wheat has been subject to steady genetic modification for at least 8,000 years. Just by a slower and far less efficient process. The wheats the Romans used were radically different from the wild einkorn and wild emmer wheats (which still exist aplenty in Anatolian grasslands).

    Do you eat any form of meat from any form of domesticated animal? Same deal.

    The outcome has been more and better food for less effort and cost.

    GM protest-cretins and other gullible fools think this is bad.

  19. Yobbo

    “GM trees don’t exist as human don’t eat trees. Hence the risk is 0 and needs no management.”

    We do eat food that comes from trees though. Fruit, for example.

  20. wreckage

    rather than admitting the primary responsibility of right wing economics

    Yeah that’s why Australia, after something like 12 years of constant right-wing governance, more if you count Keating, was hit so hard. So many of our banks failed, all our mortgages turned out to be insecure or un-secured, and… oh, wait, nothing happened.

    Unless you’re trying to say that the UK was more right wing than us, running up to and during the crisis? Maybe the EU as well?

  21. jupes

    …and I haven’t seen any evidence that these risks are being well managed yet.

    Surely a lack of any disaster or even mishap is evidence.

  22. JC

    GM trees don’t exist as human don’t eat trees.

    Actually they do, Louis. I would bet that perhaps 100% of the fruit we eat bears only small resemblance to what people were eating perhaps only 200 years ago.

    People have been grafting trees and changing the DNA composition since the time farming began.

    You reckon there were “pink lady” apples 50 years ago?

  23. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Or the big Bowen mangoes 50 years ago…

  24. Old Fridgie

    You really are spectacularly gullible.

    Do you eat bread?

    Then understand that wheat has been subject to steady genetic modification for at least 8,000 years. Just by a slower and far less efficient process. The wheats the Romans used were radically different from the wild einkorn and wild emmer wheats (which still exist aplenty in Anatolian grasslands).

    Do you eat any form of meat from any form of domesticated animal? Same deal.

    The outcome has been more and better food for less effort and cost.

    GM protest-cretins and other gullible fools think this is bad

    It goes further than that too Mk50, have these anti GM cockheads ever eaten fruit? If so then they probably will have eaten GM, for example…

    The seed from a Haralson apple will produce an apple tree, but it will not produce a Haralson apple tree. Likewise, the seed from a Honeygold apple will not produce a Honeygold apple tree. In other words, fruit trees cannot be reproduced “true” to the original cultivar from seed. They can only be reproduced by grafting. Grafting describes any of a number of techniques in which a section of a stem with leaf buds is inserted into the stock of a tree. Grafting is useful however, for more than reproduction of an original cultivar. It is also used to repair injured fruit trees or for topworking an established tree to one or more different cultivars.

    Most different varieties of apple, mango, pear etc have been genetically modified to produce different cultivars.

  25. jumpnmcar

    “to vilify GMOs is to be as anti-science as climate-change deniers”

    Well, derr fred.
    To deny that climate changes is ridiculous.

    I am concerned that, in some places in the world, farmers are forced to use GM seeds or encouraged to by governments to grow crops of the governments choosing.

  26. JC

    Anti-GM is is basically a leftist version of the old anti-corporation schtick we used to see in the 60s and 70s but but updated now to show more leg.

    The anti GM crowd are absolutely freaking evil.

  27. jumpnmcar

    Or the big Bowen mangoes 50 years ago…

    The R2E2 mango just had its 30th birthday last month.
    Our biggest export mango, don’t know why though, it tastes shithouse.

  28. Pickles

    Handles long transport best. KP’s for me.

  29. jumpnmcar

    jarrah

    I also make sure that anyone who boasts about “buying local food” gets politely informed about how much more damaging for the environment that can be.

    I grow food in my back yard, I won’t find more local than that.
    How exactly am i damaging the environment ?

  30. I have nothing against GMO but I support a Greenies choice not to buy GMO products for whatever reason.

    Producers of non-GMO products can advertise this. GMO food may be cheaper to produce but this doesn’t justify subsidising non-GMO product.

  31. Steve of Ferny Hills

    The R2E2 mango just had its 30th birthday last month. Our biggest export mango, don’t know why though, it tastes shithouse.

    And I have one in my back yard. Sob.

  32. candy

    I’ve seen pictures of rats with huge tumours all over them after being fed diet with genetically modified corn, it looked really awful.

  33. Steve of Ferny Hills

    KP’s? Kerosene?

  34. jumpnmcar

    candy

    Iv’e seen tap water on fire blamed on CSG.
    It was bullshit of course.

  35. Jarrah

    “I grow food in my back yard, I won’t find more local than that. How exactly am i damaging the environment ?”

    I did say ‘buying’ local, jumpnmcar.

  36. NoFixedAddress

    And this from a fully paid up member of the Zombie Economics crew at the Cat which, in the face of the GFC, continually seeks to befuddle and obfuscate rather than admitting the primary responsibility of right wing economics and its reliance on markets for that crises. LOL.

    @William Bragg

    There has been a bit of discussion on how to respond to Green Eyed Monsters on Catallyx today.

    I personally think that the best response is to just say “What are you talking about bitch?”.

  37. jumpnmcar

    jarrah

    I did say ‘buying’ local, jumpnmcar.

    And I didn’t say i didn’t sell it.
    Please educate me on the environmental damage.

  38. Lazlo

    “to vilify GMOs is to be as anti-science as climate-change deniers”

    Spot on. That’s why I’m pro-nuclear, pro-GM, and anti-AGW ‘scepticism’.

    Spot on? Who is ‘denying climate change’?

    Just one or two names will do..

  39. Steve of Ferny Hills

    Thanks, Jump.

  40. JC

    Candy

    First off, you simply don’t know without evidence the rats did in fact get the cancer from what they ate. How did the verify this. Were there independent sources?

    Secondly what was they quantity they ate.

    Thirdly rats aren’t humans and humans aren’t rats so what may give either species cancer doesn’t necessarily hold for the other.

    Unless you have full knowledge of this the you can rest assure that the stuff presented was simply propaganda.

    These people are mentally ill.

  41. Jarrah

    “Please educate me on the environmental damage.”

    In short, the resources used by the buyer finding and purchasing food from local growers/suppliers can, depending on the food and quantity, be larger than that expended by multinationals shipping food long distances to a supermarket near the buyer (on a per-item or per-kilo basis, obviously).

    “Just one or two names will do..”

    I’ll give you three – CL, cohenite, Mk50.

  42. Will

    And I didn’t say i didn’t sell it.
    Please educate me on the environmental damage.

    I understand that their is an argument that local produce uses more resources.

    I think Matt Ridley had an essay on this.

  43. JC

    Remember this people, Monsanto does the Lord’s work on earth and will always be in JC’s retirement portfolio.

    Every Monsanto CEO will go straight to heaven with the entire stock option portfolio. It’s about the breach 100 bucks.

    Roundup is like holy water.

  44. cohenite

    That’s why I’m pro-nuclear, pro-GM, and anti-AGW ‘scepticism’

    I was tempted to say you’re 2/3s sane; but on reflection I think you’re all fuckwit because if the AGW crazies get their way there will be no nuc or GM.

    Too smart by a 1/3 jarrah.

  45. JC

    Eggasctly Cohenite.

    This isn’t just about da Carbon. It’s a direct attack on modern industrial civilization and they are essentially our enemies.

    It’s basically a multi-pronged attack on humanity by evil worthless scum.

  46. JC

    These scum could have potentially killed my aging parents yesterday as a result of the blackouts. I’m sure some old people died yesterday in Victoria.

  47. candy

    Make sure they’re drinking enough water, JC.

  48. jumpnmcar

    jarrah 11:13pm
    lol, that’s piss weak.

    Anyway, I hope Monsanto have a very very large seed bank to get their genetics from, as their dominance in horticulture has erased 1000s comically grown varieties.

  49. Lazlo

    “Just one or two names will do..”

    I’ll give you three – CL, cohenite, Mk50.

    They are all big enough to defend themselves. But I have never seen any evidence that they deny that climate change happens.

    Do you have any such evidence? I don’t think so. You warmists do favour the ad hom approach.

  50. I’ve seen pictures of rats with huge tumours all over them after being fed diet with genetically modified corn, it looked really awful.

    There appear to be a lot of questions about that study, Candy.

    The reaction to the report by scientists who are expert in this area has ranged from bewilderment to derision to hints of research malpractice.

    “Even though I strongly support labeling, I’m skeptical of this study,” said Marion Nestle, professor in the Department of Nutrition, Food Studies and Public Health at New York University. “It’s weirdly complicated and unclear on key issues: what the controls were fed, relative rates of tumors, why no dose relationship, what the mechanism might be. I can’t think of a biological reason why GMO corn should do this.”

    Mark Tester, a research professor for the Australian Centre for Plant Functional Genomics at the University of Adelaide noted that the findings raised the question of why no previous studies have flagged similar concerns. “If the effects are as big as purported, and if the work really is relevant to humans, why aren’t the North Americans dropping like flies? GM has been in the food chain for over a decade over there—and longevity continues to increase inexorably,” he wrote in a comment emailed to Reuters.

    As one researcher noted, for nearly 20 years, billions of animals in the European Union and the United States have been fed soy products produced from genetically modified soybean, mainly from Latin America. Yet, no problems have been reported by the hundreds of thousands of farmers, officials and vets.

  51. JC

    Dog..
    from your link… more fucking manipulation of peer review from what i read.

    Prof Maurice Moloney, Institute Director and Chief Executive , Rothamsted Research, said:

    “Although this paper has been published in a peer–reviewed journal with an IF of about 3, there are anomalies throughout the paper that normally should have been corrected or resolved through the peer-review process.

    Here’s an idea. These scientists are on the public payroll and also receiving funds for research. These fuckers need to be treated in the same way as directors or the management of public and private corporations publish dishonest statements.

    Send the fuckers to jail if they are caught cheating. No fucking mercy.

  52. C.L.

    to vilify GMOs is to be as anti-science as climate-change deniers

    No no. To vilify GMOs is to be exactly like ‘climate change’ believers.

    His conversion still has a ways to go.

  53. JC

    Peer/research reviewers should have the same responsibilities as auditors when dealing with publicly funded research.

    I’m absolutely sick and tired of these lying academics.

  54. C.L.

    I’ll give you three – CL, cohenite, Mk50.

    Really? Let’s have, say, ONE link where I deny that the climate changes.

    GO!

  55. To vilify GMOs is to be exactly like ‘climate change’ believers.

    I agree. The anti-GMO movement, like the anti-carbon movement, seems to be more motivated by politics than by real science.

    Decades on, there is no real-world evidence for the hysterical claims of the catastrophic damage that GM foods were meant to do to man, other animals, or the ecosytem at large.

    Decades on, there is no real-world evidence for the hysterical claims of the catastrophic warming that increasing CO2 emissions were meant to cause.

    They’re both just anti-progress, anti-industrialization political movements meant to take us back to some imaginary romantic more-pristine less-prosperous era in the past.

  56. That recent “scientific” study finding that societal outrage against paed0philes is “not justified by science” and that “persuasive evidence for the harmfulness of paed0philic relationships does not yet exist” was published in a peer-reviewed journal as well, JC.

  57. wreckage

    Viruses and bacteria have been randomly shunting DNA between species and genera since… well, not too long after life began. There is no synthetic DNA (yet), we just take useful sequences from one organism and put them in another. There, they produce a protein.

    If it wasn’t a carcinogen originally, why would it be now? “Roundup ready” genes cause the plant to repeat a step in its photosynthesis sequence, thus bypassing the suppression of photosynthesis Roundup causes. Exactly how the hell is that going to cause massive facial tumours?

    Some estimates would have a human’s DNA at or over 8% random inserted sequences from retroviruses. Most GMOs have one gene swapped in. Why doesn’t eating people cause facial tumours?

  58. wreckage

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus provides some details on the 98,000 bits of human DNA that aren’t human DNA at all.

  59. candy

    “There appear to be a lot of questions about that study”

    I read that stuff sdog and apparently they kept those rats alive too long because the tumours were so big and so they suffered, so the suspicions about research malpractice could well be true. poor things.

  60. Grey

    I read that stuff sdog and apparently they kept those rats alive too long because the tumours were so big and so they suffered, so the suspicions about research malpractice could well be true. poor things.

    It is, unfortunately, quite normal to do 2 year feeding studies with this strain of rats, but most labs have the PR sense not to publish photos of them. Seralini has been a little naughty using these photos in as much it is common for this strain to develop tumors anyway – but that is why the strain is used, so as to model the process of cancer initiation in a reasonable you need to use a highly susceptible strain. But Seralini did show a reasonable increase in tumor incidence in a rather small study, as has another group. Neither study reached statistical significance, but a larger study might well.

    The cancer from eating this corn wouldn’t be any worse than any other cancer (which isn’t saying much). It would be like smoking, it would take many years to develop cancers – should the effect Seralini showed be replicated. Probably not a concern if you eat highly processed corn products – but maybe if you had corn as a staple food.

    PS. I used to work as a janitor in the CSIRO

  61. Grey

    Remember this people, Monsanto does the Lord’s work on earth and will always be in JC’s retirement portfolio.

    Oh dear, oh dear. Is there anyway you could short them? I would hate it if you could no longer afford an internet connection and I was to be deprived of your wisdom. We all would.

    I’m afraid, old fruit, their Round-Up Ready line is looking like it might turn out to be a lemon. I know if I was Slater and Gordon I would be slipping the Seralini study into a file marked “Wait 10 years.” I hear they made a bomb out of Ok Tedi.

  62. Splatacrobat

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus provides some details on the 98,000 bits of human DNA that aren’t human DNA at all.

    Budget deficits can be found in the DNA of Labor………and they are definately not human!

  63. Grey

    You really are spectacularly gullible.

    Do you eat bread?

    Then understand that wheat has been subject to steady genetic modification for at least 8,000 years. Just by a slower and far less efficient process. The wheats the Romans used were radically different from the wild einkorn and wild emmer wheats (which still exist aplenty in Anatolian grasslands).

    Thank you MK-50. I really had no idea about Roman agricultural practice.
    I guess our wheat is very different from the wild emmer wheats in Anatolia. So, I expect, is the incidence of coeliac’s disease.

    Of course there is no point in suing Julius Caesar and his descendents (everyone knows they have naughty photos of all the judges in compromising positions.) but imagine if a leap in the incidence of some non communicable disease could be traced back to the introduction of a GM crop. The lawyers would love it

  64. William Bragg

    Yeah that’s why Australia, after something like 12 years of constant right-wing governance, more if you count Keating, was hit so hard. So many of our banks failed, all our mortgages turned out to be insecure or un-secured, and… oh, wait, nothing happened.

    Never heard of the four pillars policy, wreckage. The fact is that Australia regulated its banks more than the US and UK etc.

    But back to the point, despite the continual avoidance and attempts at diversion, no-one here on Catallaxy is willing to admit the failure of their favoured pro-market policies as reflected in the GFC. So when Kates says no one on the left ever admits they’re wrong, don’t be surprised when Cats are not taken seriously.

  65. JC

    Never heard of the four pillars policy, wreckage. The fact is that Australia regulated its banks more than the US and UK etc.

    As far as the US goes. Untrue. You’re lying, ignorant or both. It doesn’t matter.

    But back to the point, despite the continual avoidance and attempts at diversion, no-one here on Catallaxy is willing to admit the failure of their favoured pro-market policies as reflected in the GFC.

    Name which of these failed. Give specific evidence along with the reasons.

    So when Kates says no one on the left ever admits they’re wrong, don’t be surprised when Cats are not taken seriously

    Nutball, you were peddling conspiracy theories about the death of JFK. You have supported the Iranian regime war on gays and stoning women.

  66. JC

    Oh dear, oh dear. Is there anyway you could short them?

    I could. Just a flick of a keyboard stroke Doofus. now why would I do that?

    I would hate it if you could no longer afford an internet connection and I was to be deprived of your wisdom. We all would.

    Yea I can you care. As much as I care about you, Greys, which of course you know I don’t.

    I’m afraid, old fruit, their Round-Up Ready line is looking like it might turn out to be a lemon.

    Really. You’re a stock analyst now, Greys?

    I know if I was Slater and Gordon I would be slipping the Seralini study into a file marked “Wait 10 years.” I hear they made a bomb out of Ok Tedi.

    Do you know anything at all about this firm other than the shit you read on left/anti progress sites?

    Of course you don’t , so STFU and stop wasting space on this site you idiot.

  67. JC

    9/26/2012

    “Russia Bans Monsanto’s Modified Corn Russia has banned the import and sale of Monsanto’s (NYSE: MON) genetically modified corn after a scientific report last week revealed that the company’s Roundup Ready® genetically modified corn developed cancer in both male and female rats in lab tests.

    http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/monsanto-nk603-doubts-cast-with-claim-that-french-study only-used-ten-rats/ ”

    This story hit the wire serves in sept. It’s been roundly discarded as being bullshit.

    The stock is higher than when this story and others like it were published.

    As I said, it’s doing the lord’s work on earth feeding the hungry masses.

    It has a profit margin of around 15% which is an absolute thing of beauty as it looks stable and there are more products in the works.

    This stock has all the makings of hitting much higher highs over the next 12 months and beyond.

  68. John Mc

    But back to the point, despite the continual avoidance and attempts at diversion, no-one here on Catallaxy is willing to admit the failure of their favoured pro-market policies as reflected in the GFC.

    The GFC occurred precisely because socialism, social engineering and anti-market regulation was implemented in a way that over rode self-correcting market forces.

  69. Grey

    Do you know anything at all about this firm other than the shit you read on left/anti progress sites?

    Of course you don’t

    Absolutely nothing. But I do know about the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus 35 S promoter. And I also know if Monsanto were really confident about these products they wouldn’t be running around behind the scenes twisting arms and trying to get the paper retracted but would loudly and proudly repeating the Seralini study in a larger study group and showing it was rubbish.

    Perhaps they can keep a lid on it, perhaps they can’t but if it was my money I wouldn’t being making a long term bet on them. You can buy me drink if I am ever up in Gympie.

  70. Up The Workers!

    Wayne Swan was so impressed by the turnaround in Mark Lynas’s views on G.M.O.’s, that he gave several hundred million dollars in taxpayer-funded cash grants to “General Motors ‘Olden”.

    Unlike many, Swan was never a critic of the G.F.C.
    He regularly buys a bucket of the stuff every week and reckons it is “Finger-lickin good”! Jenny Macklin also likes the odd bucket or three.

  71. Walter Plinge

    I’ve seen pictures of rats with huge tumours all over them after being fed diet with genetically modified corn, it looked really awful.

    Have you seen humans with huge tumours over them eating GM corn? OR even little tumours? No, I thought not.

    Rats are particularly susceptible to cancer (speaking from an acquaintance with pet rats, which died from cancer) but test rats are genetically modified to be particularly susceptible. So, rats get cancer from something? It means little, and certainly doesn’t mean humans will also get cancer. Saccharin and cyclamate are two examples of a gross overreaction that amounted to nothing.

  72. Skuter

    Then understand that wheat has been subject to steady genetic modification for at least 8,000 years. Just by a slower and far less efficient process. The wheats the Romans used were radically different from the wild einkorn and wild emmer wheats (which still exist aplenty in Anatolian grasslands).

    Do you eat any form of meat from any form of domesticated animal? Same deal.

    The outcome has been more and better food for less effort and cost.

    GM protest-cretins and other gullible fools think this is bad.

    I always had difficulty accepting the anti-GM bullshit for this very reason. Humans had been doing genetic modification for eons through selective breeding and the like.
    On a related note, does anyone know the fate of those cretins who destroyed the GM wheat trial crops last year?

  73. Alfonso

    Bwaaa….the GFC flowed from toxic CDOs made inevitable by the Community Reinvestment Act. Freddie and Fanny did what they were told, no threats required. The listed banks had to be threatened to get them to lower their prudential standards.

  74. Skuter

    Never heard of the four pillars policy, wreckage. The fact is that Australia regulated its banks more than the US and UK etc.

    Anyone who makes a statement like that, shows their stupidity. A couple of points need to be mentioned here. First, Australian deposit-taking institutions were regulated differently, but it is difficult to say they were ‘more’ or ‘less’ regulated than their US or UK counterparts. The US has multiple regulators where Australia has one, for example. I’m sure there are other indicators that could be used to show the opposite of what you claim. The other key point is that until October 2008, Australia never had explicit deposit insurance. Then, the goose and the kid wonders in Rudd’s office pooed their jocks and guaranteed virtually all banks’ liabilities.

  75. Grey

    Rats are particularly susceptible to cancer (speaking from an acquaintance with pet rats, which died from cancer) but test rats are genetically modified to be particularly susceptible.

    Whatever the case, this is the standard method for assessing possible carcinogenicity in humans.
    See for example this protocol on dioxin related compounds
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21383778
    But maybe you think testing for carcinogenicity is just looters stealing money from hard working taxpayers?

    I always had difficulty accepting the anti-GM bullshit for this very reason. Humans had been doing genetic modification for eons through selective breeding and the like.

    While I think most informed people would recognise a difference between single cross species gene transfer and the slow evolutionary processes of genetic drift and selective breeding – even if you don’t – did I not make myself clear.
    The genetic modifications that took emmer wheat to durum wheat did result in a very significant increase in disease – coeliac’s disease.

  76. Aynsley Kellow

    Grey:
    ‘The genetic modifications that took emmer wheat to durum wheat did result in a very significant increase in disease – coeliac’s disease.’

    Those same modifications also had another outcome: civilization! Are you saying coeliac’s disease (even assuming your claim is correct) make the whole of civilization not worth the risks? I think your anti-humanist slip is showing.

  77. Paul

    More likely hit by Monsanto’s checkbook than by an asteroid.

  78. Mk50 of Brisbane

    CL, cohenite, Mk50.

    They are all big enough to defend themselves. But I have never seen any evidence that they deny that climate change happens.

    Naughty Jarrah!

    I have repeatedly stated that of course the cllimate changes that’s what it does - it is a complex system with an enormous number of sub-terrestrial, terrestrial, solar and even interstellar variables about which we know very little.

    I point and laugh at the pathetic simplicity greenfilth and devoutly religious Gaialoons asign to it. Their sacred text (the IPCC Summary Report for Politicians) and High Priest (the conman and oil multi-millionaire Al Gore) say that “no, send money only CO2 affects climate send money and only that CO2 produced by wealthy western industrial states counts send money

    No-one who is scientifically literate thinks the climate does not change. How can a complex system in dynamic balance not change all the time? The idea is laughable.

    So is the idea that CO2 is the major driver and that it can be used like a rheostat. And that’s what the greenfilth Gaialoon holy-rollers believe. Their priesthood just believes in raking in the cash, though.

  79. candy

    The main thing is that food is labelled, GMO modified, halal or not, gluten free, cholesterol free, etc, so you’ve got the choice.

  80. Yes, the climate changes. Yes, that’s what sceptics believe. We just don’t believe that the works of man affect it in any noticeable way. The Left know this is what we keep saying, but they repeat we are saying that the climate doesn’t change.
    Why?
    Because they are intellectually dishonest and believe the ends justifies the means.
    Neanderthals.

  81. Glider

    It is all to do with the money. Cockies make more from growing GMs , Monsanto, Cargill, et al own the Gm patents. Charge what the market will stand for the seed. Fish and chips are cooked in GM Canola (which is modified Rape seed anyway’ modified for non ruminant digestion)
    The multi-nationals have more control over this marketing than any left wing lawmakers and we have to accept this as the ‘new age of democracy in Oz’
    GM is here to stay forever, but should we be controlled by the big boy Multi-nats?

  82. MattR

    But back to the point, despite the continual avoidance and attempts at diversion, no-one here on Catallaxy is willing to admit the failure of their favoured pro-market policies as reflected in the GFC.

    No one will ‘admit’ this because there is nothing to ‘admit’. Anyone who thinks that the US financial system wasn’t extensively regulated is either ignorant or lying. The ENTIRE financial system is a creation of the government, unless of course the gold standardard was in place from 02-08 (this is not an endorsement of the gold standard, just making the point)?

    You see, I was under the impression that it was the Fed that controlled the money supply and interest rates. I was also under the impression that it was the two GOVERNMENT OWNED banks that failed and lent mostly to people who couldn’t pay (because they were forced to by the Democrats). I was also under the impression that it was the GOVERNMENT that gave the banks an implied (and seen) guarantee that increased moral hazard.

    Also funny how it was actually the DEMOCRAT states that saw the biggest real estate bubbles, due to their excessive restrictions on land development and it was the Red states that had free-market policies around land development that saw no bubble and hardly got hit by the crisis. These same states are now leading the recovery.

    It never ceases to amaze me how willing leftards are to warp reality to push their own agenda. Even assuming the GFC was due to ‘extreme right-wing ideology’ (it most certainly wasn’t, unless you consider massive government intervention right wing, in which case you are an idiot), yet wilfully ignore the misery and death that their own childish ideology foisted on half the world last century.

    It really is amazing the level of denial amongst lefists these days.

  83. wreckage

    So, a few pointers. Genes do get transferred between species in nature. Simple fact.

    Coeliac’s disease is linked to gluten. Gluten is what makes wheat suitable for bread. Coeliac’s has not been caused by consumption of modern grains but it is activated by the consumption of bread and pasta. It is also possible to be allergic to shellfish, nuts, and even vitamin C.

    Finally, Glider, we are not “controlled by the Multi-nats”. They profit as long as their product provides a benefit to the farmer, and plenty of farmers simply grow older varieties.

    The invention of Roundup reduced the cost and energy-intensity of growing basic food grains by a massive amount, as well as making almost the entire most recent generation of agricultural innovations possible, from pasture-cropping to zero-till, hugely reducing fuel use, erosion, nutrient in run-off, and allowing the cropping of land previously suited only to grazing – a much less efficient source of kilojoules.

    The Australian banking system has been undergoing steady deregulation for twenty years. You can call it regulated if you want to, that doesn’t change the relevant facts.

  84. wreckage

    Really, did we used to get smarter lefties in here, or is it just nostalgia on my part?

  85. Grey

    Those same modifications also had another outcome: civilization! Are you saying coeliac’s disease (even assuming your claim is correct) make the whole of civilization not worth the risks? I think your anti-humanist slip is showing.

    Thats hardly the issue, the claim was genetic modification could not result in bad health outcomes, that is manifestly untrue shown by the very example that was presented to supposedly illustrate it.

    If you think the cost-benefit analysis means the bad health outcomes were worth it, so be it. If Roundup-Ready corn results in an increase in cancer in highly exposed populations similar to the increases seen from smoking, we will be able to do a similar cost-benefit analysis and look at the civilisational gains versus the health costs.

    Why do people find these very simple concepts so difficult to grasp?

  86. Mk50 of Brisbane

    Been thinking the same thing, Wreck. I think we just had devout practising leninists, stalinists and hitlerites (not that there’s any difference) before.

    Now having squelched all those totalitarians, all we are left with is the pissweak pathetic softcocked kumbaya rednecks, ‘we are the world’ chanters, bong-addled dole-bludging emotionalists who’ve never worked a day in their lives, narcissists and fact-free analysis-incapable self-assessed intellectuals and a smattering of knob-gobbling soy latte gulping poonces.

  87. Grey

    Now having squelched all those totalitarians, all we are left with is the pissweak pathetic softcocked kumbaya rednecks, ‘we are the world’ chanters, bong-addled dole-bludging emotionalists who’ve never worked a day in their lives, narcissists and fact-free analysis-incapable self-assessed intellectuals and a smattering of knob-gobbling soy latte gulping poonces.

    After a brief and surprising lurch into emmer wheat, anatolian grasslands and Roman agriculture, MK50 reassuringly resumes his normal schtick.

    Something of a relief, I wondered if aliens had abducted him and taken over his internet account.

  88. Glider

    Wreckage, you answer your own question. The farmers are controlled by the multinats. They produce a better and more profitable product and the cockies of course grow it. This is the other side of the two edged GM sword. He who sows does not get all he reaps, he gets a better return for his effort, but can not go back to the old unimproved varieties, and will always pay a premium to the providers of the GM seed.
    Is this bad? Only if the multinats get too greedy and the poor old cocky is backed into a corner and can not get out.

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