A bit late, folks, a bit late

You do have to laugh, well, I do anyway. Read these tweets picked up at Michelle Malkin’s Twitchy via Instapundit about the effect of the tax changes that have just been implemented in the US. There are a lot of people paying more tax since Obama got his way on the fiscal cliff etc. It seems there are more rich people in the US who had no idea they were rich and who are therefore eligible for this increase in tax. My favourite:

Did new taxes go info [sic] effect today? Something I don’t understand about the fiscal cliff? I got a raise, and yet my paycheck got smaller …

You really do have to laugh at such clueless dolts.

The only tax reform I really want is to remove automatic payroll deduction so that everyone who earns an income sends a cheque to the ATO at the end of the year for the total amount of what they owe. Then we’d start seeing some fiscal discipline.

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51 Responses to A bit late, folks, a bit late

  1. Alfonso

    Oh dear…..and a million bankruptcies per annum.

    Attempting to make the punters responsible for paying over the back horizon liabilities is impossible, it’s why they’re punters.
    A libertarian ideal and practical disaster.

  2. .

    The libertarian ideal is to cut spending as a necessary first step in that situation and cut taxes where possible.

    Please get this right.

  3. wreckage

    Attempting to make the punters responsible for paying over the back horizon liabilities is impossible, it’s why they’re punters.
    A libertarian ideal and practical disaster.

    Can you turn this into a coherent statement so I can at least decide whether to argue with it?

  4. C.L.

    “What happened?”

    Ahahahahahaha.

  5. Alfonso

    Steve should prolly understand sometime soon that billing them once a year for tax, housing mortgage or car payments is risible.
    Make that mega risible.

  6. wreckage

    risible.
    Make that mega risible.

    Why?

  7. Entropy

    While I agree the us government will have to cut future expenditure, it also has to increase the tax take to pay for past expenditure. Rock and a hard place.

    People just have to pay for the consequences of past deficits.

  8. Steve Kates

    Dear Alfonso. Look, it’s only a joke. But the near-invisibility of the tax system does make it easier to grab our cash. And governments know this too. I have this memory from somewhere – possibly wrong so others are welcome to set me straight – that it is illegal for petrol companies to put any indication on petrol pumps of the proportion of the money paid that goes to tax. Why do you suppose they would do that? It’s Colbert’s Rule: when plucking a goose, the aim is to maximise the number of feathers while minimising the amount of hissing. Automatic payroll deduction was also a system invented, or so I understand, by Milton Friedman while he was a government employee during World War II.

  9. Alfonso

    Bwaaa….you don’t get that the bottom 30% (?) incompetent money manager PAYE workers can’t organise to save enough for next week’s petrol and lunch money and now they’re managing a massive single tax payment once a year?
    Get off the grass.
    Libertarian wet dreams.

  10. Alfonso

    “Look, it’s only a joke. ”

    Thank god.

    Now tell the Libertgroupies.

  11. .

    While I agree the us government will have to cut future expenditure, it also has to increase the tax take to pay for past expenditure. Rock and a hard place.

    People just have to pay for the consequences of past deficits.

    Cut more. Sell the bloody desk in the Oval Office for all I care. Who gives a shit if the President uses a desk from Ikea?

    Cut like Wolverine on high grade meth amphetamine, I say.

  12. .

    Bwaaa….you don’t get that the bottom 30% (?) incompetent money manager PAYE workers can’t organise to save enough for next week’s petrol and lunch money and now they’re managing a massive single tax payment once a year?
    Get off the grass.
    Libertarian wet dreams.

    Why don’t you just tax them and income manage them then?

    Now tell the Libertgroupies.

    What are you banging on about?

  13. Alfonso

    You get it Null….you just don’t like it.

  14. .

    Alfonso ought to income manage the bottom 30% of the workers?

    I get it. You suffer the same malady as Paul Keating.

    Now go and wear a silly Fly River tribal hat and kiss the ground.

  15. Steve of Ferny Hills

    But the near-invisibility of the tax system

    This is especially so in relation to local government rates. Most house renters have absolutely no idea how much their ‘greedy’ landlord pays in rates. Yet their insatiable demand for ‘Free Stuff’ pushes up rates (and thus rents).

    At the very least rate paymnets should be required by law to be itemised on rent invoices.

  16. Alfonso

    Yawn….stop pretending….you understand the problem…..income management no, tax as you earn yes.
    Especially for the punters who otherwise will be buying 75 Etecs from me on ATO money.

  17. NoFixedAddress

    the gill will pull the same scam here….

    then we can laugh….

    if the liberals are not prepared to wipe out 90% of expenditure do you think there is any difference?

  18. JC

    The only tax reform I really want is to remove automatic payroll deduction so that everyone who earns an income sends a cheque to the ATO at the end of the year for the total amount of what they owe. Then we’d start seeing some fiscal discipline.

    Great idea. I’ve been pushing that for a long time.

  19. Gavin R Putland

    Steve Kates wrote:

    The only tax reform I really want is to remove automatic payroll deduction…

    Requiring employers to make such deductions at their own expense is arguably unconstitutional (26 Dec 2012).

  20. wreckage

    Drop the lowest income earners out of the income tax system altogether then. Bump up GST by 0.5%. problem solved, administrative burden consolidated.

  21. wreckage

    if the liberals are not prepared to wipe out 90% of expenditure do you think there is any difference?

    Yes. That’s like asking if I’d rather half-drown. Absolutely, if the alternative is to drown.

  22. Mk50 of Brisbane

    No, wreck, bugger them all with the Shagger T’s dick. Scrap middle class welfare completely, 20% flat PAYE for everyone including welfare muppets and zero deductions for anything for everyone. That way the poor get a stake, understand free stuff ain’t free, and the higher income earners don’t get the chance to bargain for special exemptions.

    The add a ‘volunteer tied tax’ system. Greenfilth want renewaball energy? Cool. They can tick the box to pay an additional 20% of gross which must be wasted on that crap.

    And half the ATO can be sacked.

  23. .

    This is especially so in relation to local government rates. Most house renters have absolutely no idea how much their ‘greedy’ landlord pays in rates. Yet their insatiable demand for ‘Free Stuff’ pushes up rates (and thus rents).

    At the very least rate paymnets should be required by law to be itemised on rent invoices.

    Are you aware of the effective tax rates on residential property development BEFORE corporate and personal income taxes of the developers – which can exceed EIGHTY PER CENT?

    The Government is greedy.

  24. wreckage

    I’m just saying there’s a difference, and the great weakness of the centre right is to swan about having fainting fits over who isn’t a proper PROPER conservative instead of focussing on voting the worst out at every election.

    Vote out the worst and let natural selection do the rest.

  25. wreckage

    In the market, ultimately, pigs get slaughtered. In government however, the pigs can simply give themselves the protection of law. There’s plenty of evidence that this is exactly what happens.

  26. Steve of Ferny Hills

    Dot. Read it again. I’m not saying that landlords are greedy (scare quotes = clue?). I’m saying that renters largely vote in ignorance due to a lack of transparency about rates.

  27. Gavin R Putland

    Steve of Ferny Hills wrote:

    At the very least rate paymnets should be required by law to be itemised on rent invoices.

    That’s reasonable in so far as rates add to the market rent — e.g. because they are levied on values of buildings, or for services that are needed to make the property habitable.

  28. .

    I’m damn sure the renters are clueless. They want the Government to help!

  29. DaveF

    sell the desk in the Oval Office..

    As a matter of fact recent Presidents – Bush I think and definitely Obama – sign a bill into law they use a different pen for each number and word. When I saw it on tv I was staggered.

    Presumably they are gifted at fundraisers. Perhaps they could sell them instead?

    Also Congressmen are given flags that have flown on the Capitol building which they give to constituents.

    The truth is there is a flagpole at the back of the roof where 2 soldiers run flags up and down all day.

    They could auction them off instead.

  30. Alfonso

    Steve….the theoretical commentariat doesn’t relate well to commercial reality.
    I own shops, offices and residential houses.
    A small business.

    Would it surprise the anti-landlord beast comrades to know that in these troubled times I often don’t apply annual CPIs, one office has gone 4 years with no increase, two retailers 3 years.

    Now pay attention budding landlords, if any of my properties are vacant for 6 months which they very well might be on fantasy increases, I will NEVER pick up the difference when it is relet.

    So I have zero vacancies, ever.
    And I therefore do more Alaskan fishing than the average BEc.

  31. DaveF

    Steve Kates: re the petrol stations.

    Yes I recall that. The petrol station wanted to put petrol 40c tax 62c or something like that. It may have been around the time petrol hit the dollar mark.

    From memory there was a law change needed.

  32. I understand in Hong Kong they pay their ‘salary tax’ in one hit, it’s quite a low rate!

    I recall decades ago the Trade Union Party banned petrol stations from charging more for petrol to pay for driveway service, popular with ladies of a certain age and well dressed gentlemen. We should do the same for the Trade Union Party’s tribute hidden charges, especially Medicare.

  33. Tim

    The only tax reform I really want is to remove automatic payroll deduction…

    The short term solution, that should solve Alfonso’s concerns, is not to abolish PAYG altogether, but just to adjust the PAYG tax tables to make sure everyone has a bill to pay at the end of the year – maybe 10% of their total tax. Easy enough done, just collect a little less each payday. Even easily justifiable – why should the government get to take more of your money then they are entitled to as an interest free loan?

    While many may be bankrupted by their entire tax bill in one go, almost all will be able to scrape together the 10%, even if they have to borrow. And they will not be pleased – no more tax return cheques – money from the government – to spend on a holiday or a shopping binge.

    I think it will have the required effect – extracting the maximum amount of hissing while the geese are still plucked.

  34. Skuter

    Did new taxes go info [sic] effect today? Something I don’t understand about the fiscal cliff? I got a raise, and yet my paycheck got smaller …

    Congratulations America, you’ve just been screwed by the Sun King…

  35. Mindfree

    Skuter,

    they’re probably bending over assuming the position chanting “Oh the pleasure and pain” while the sun king is well and truly giving it to them

    Shit, these people are so brain dead they probably think Benghazi is the guy that runs the local falafel take away

  36. Kingsley

    30% GST and scrap all other state and federal taxes

  37. Alfonso

    50% GST, zero other taxes, is better……with pensioner and mendicant compensation.

    If you can’t avoid GST on significant purchases, you deserve what you get.

  38. Alice

    Dot

    says

    “Are you aware of the effective tax rates on residential property development BEFORE corporate and personal income taxes of the developers – which can exceed EIGHTY PER CENT?

    The Government is greedy.”

    I agree with you Dot on this and i have almost had a gitful. I have worked hard all my life and put a lot of my savings, not into the super con, but into bricks and mortar and even though there is a rental mshortage – the fucking government ius coming after every fucking spare cent (whether its local government BS rates, Land tax BS land value and tax rates, or income tax).

    Fuck them. It doenst matter how you choose to save the governments take from our savings is getting fucking obsene whilst those dipsicks in their government / political jobs are on every perk under the sun (including, like Julia letting your defacto run red lights and speeding cameras at the taxpayers expense).

    Just tell me who I should vote for Dot and tell me they will be any different?

    On this I agree with you Dot boy

  39. lotocoti

    the bottom 30% (?) incompetent money manager PAYE workers can’t organise to save enough…

    I should imagine competent money management would suddenly become a cherished virtue amongst all.

  40. kingsley

    It would be worth considering making the system Steve proposed voluntary. ie those who want to earn the interest on their tax dollars till tax time which generally speaking with a tax agent could potentially be stretched out to May 15 following year could be pretty attractive. Probably need some amending legislation however to ensure they can still access May 15 deadline as generally extension gets shortened the bigger your bill was the previous year.
    This would probably see a fair chunk of the current PAYGW taxpayers switch. Probably less than half but a fair chunk nonetheless. Most of those wanting to switch probably coalition voters now but a fair chunk would be swing voters and elections are all about convincing about 3% of the population to vote the other way this time.
    That leaves the mismanagers to remain in PAYGW system.

    Also on 30% GST the allocation of the revenue should just be on a simple per capita basis. No inter-State subsidies

  41. John Comnenus

    Mk 50, I have argued for a 25% GST on everything and every other government tax, fee and charge is scrapped. That way Federal, State and Local government can only be 25% of GST. Imagine the economy rocket when all those tax accountants, ATO staff and various collection clerks at federal, state and local level are sacked. Imagine the boost in productivity when complying with then tax code is super easy. No more tax forms for anyone except company BAS. Imagine the whole dead weight of government lifted from every person and company.

  42. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Would it surprise the anti-landlord beast comrades to know that in these troubled times I often don’t apply annual CPIs,

    Nor do the Hairy Ape and I on any properties we still have kept and haven’t unloaded. We lose quite a bit on our beach house, but help a struggling family with two kids there (when they leave this year for a house they are building we have another struggling family in mind for a cheap rental).

    But in Melbourne we ourselves are being asked for an increased rent on the property we are renting if we want to extend our lease (HIA has just contracted another year, provided it includes stints for us both in Europe and the US. He’s off leaving me at home to go to China soon). We could just up and leave (we think our landlord is taking a bit of a risk here as we are good and secure tenants) but we do like it where we are and can’t be ass’d movin’.

    So we will probably just pay up and stay. Dat’s da market. Lucky landlord.

  43. .

    Not a bad idea John C, but raising any tax is hard.

    I suggest, as I have for some time, the following.

    The only taxes applied, would be:

    A 10% GST – but applied to everything.

    A 2% LVT

    A 5% royalties tax

    I think it would raise less revenue – around 15% of GDP, whereas a 25% GST would raise 20% of GDP assuming no deadweight loss. The higher rate may create higher deadweight losses to see it tend towards more like 15% of GDP, but probably closer to 20% of GDP still.

  44. Obama fuck the taxes up man I should have voted for Romney smh bullshit— bitch im broke(@Made410) January 3, 2013

    LOL

  45. Brian of Moorabbin

    That was a good one sdog. I also particularly enjoyed this one:

    #WhyIsMyPaycheckLessThisWeek So Obama can afford Big Bird and Planned Parenthood.

    7:14 AM – 4 Jan 13

  46. I’ll just add that every time I see a tweet from @SMH, I love the fact that for 99% of the people out here, SMH means “shake my head”, i.e. “can you fucking believe this shit?”

  47. DontTreadOnMe

    I think this link illustrates what is really considered important in Hussein Soeturo’s political life.

  48. Alice

    Lizzie

    I have never applied cpi increases on rent and I fix things properly and dont whinge about doing so for my tenants and as a result I have never had a bad tenant and I never use agents to manage them.
    The guy next door rented his house while he was working in the US and “on the agents advice” he was jacking the rent up $50 a week every 6 months a few years ago.

    I counted three lots of tenants he lost with the requisite clean ups of rubbish left behind under house, overgrown gardens etc (agents dont check that before they hand back bonds) and weeks and weeks of vacancies plus damage moving in and out.

    You cant trust some real estate agents to manage property I find. They have real incentives to “mismanage” rental property eg annoy tenants (by not addressing their concerns), advocating 6 monthly rent increases etc. Then they get to replace tenants. The replacement fee is usually large (two weeks rent) and it might take them more than 6 months to earn that on the weekly rental income commission rate.

  49. Gavin R Putland

    I salute Alfonso, Lizzie & Alice for their policy of keeping their properties occupied.

    Of course, if landlords paid tax solely on the value of their land — and not on values of buildings, or municipal services actually used, or rental income actually received — they wouldn’t be penalized for keeping their properties habitable and inhabited.

    Further thanks to Alice for the lesson on agents’ incentives.

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