Financial arson

How to characterise what Jonathan Moylan did?

Well the Greens are trying to run a ‘civil disobedience‘ line.

THE Greens leader, Senator Christine Milne, has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist, saying his actions were ”part of a long and proud history of civil disobedience, potentially breaking the law, to highlight something wrong”.

Her comments came after a tweet by her colleague Lee Rhiannon, who publicly congratulated Jonathan Moylan, an activist under scrutiny for impersonating a bank and temporarily wiping $314 million off the value of Whitehaven Coal.
”Congrats to Jonathan Moylan, Frontline Action on Coal, for exposing ANZ investment in coalmines,” Ms Rhiannon tweeted on Tuesday night.

Okay – good luck with that. I’m not convinced myself but it does leave the Greens having to explain why destroying economic prosperity and shareholder value is for the ‘good’. Having destroyed the Tasmanian economy they are turning their sights onto the mainland.

Conversely Nikki Williams from the Australian Coal Association has an excellent op-ed in the Australian.

The deliberate and fraudulent manipulation of the stockmarket is a serious offence, which undermines confidence in Australia’s investment system.

I disagree with two sentences.

Contempt for the interests of the public is an unusual face for the activist movement.

No. Ask the Tasmanian logging industry about that.

Free speech is a right that must be protected, but with free speech must come responsibility and accountability.

This is not a free speech issue. Moylan should be free to tell us all about the evils of coal mining and how it is disgraceful that ANZ is lending them money and, if he were an ANZ shareholder, turn up at the AGM and ask tough questions etc. etc. etc. In fact, Moylan is free to do all those things already.

Moylan did not say what he liked, he did what he liked. Moylan committed an act of violence against Whitehaven’s shareholders and the integrity of the Australian financial markets – so every person in Australia who has direct investments or indirect investments like superannuation.

If he had set a forest fire we would immediately recognise the wrong – he did the financial equivalent.

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88 Responses to Financial arson

  1. WhaleHunt Fun

    “If he had set a forest fire we would immediately recognise the wrong – he did the financial equivalent.”
    No, these lunatics prevent preventative burning. They actively deliberately forcibly ensure the conditions under which dangerous fires become deadly. I blame every burned corpse in every bushfire on the arrogance and stupidity of these nasty cancerous tumours in the body of the Australian population. They demand and require that these deaths happen.

  2. Tom

    ASIC is apparently serious about bringing charges against the idiot:

    THE securities watchdog has seized Whitehaven hoaxer Jonathan Moylan’s phone and computer from his camp site at Maules Creek.

    The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) also told the 24-year-old anti-coal activist that he will be questioned over the hoax he perpetrated on Monday that temporarily wiped $340 million from the value of coal miner Whitehaven.

    Mr Moylan told ABC radio today: “ASIC turned up at the camp and I don’t know how much I’m allowed to say because there are offences for revealing details of an investigation … I’ve been asked to attend questioning and they’ve seized my phone and computer”.

  3. Gab

    If ASIC does proceed, and I hope it does, then the loopy Greens should be prosecuted for encouraging further eco-terrorism, given their congratulatory missives and support of Moylan’s criminal behaviour.

  4. WhaleHunt Fun

    Excellent news.
    Perhaps they could confiscate his kidneys as well?
    Lots of people on the waiting list, all of whom would make better use of them.

  5. GerardB

    We should let the law take it course.

    In the meantime, the Greens should set out the conditions their brand of permissible law-breaking.

  6. Fred Furkenburger

    As I have commented elsewhere it absolutely astounds me that a person who is in our parliament responsible for enacting laws which we are all supposed to slavishly follow can turn around and then encourage the breaking of that rule of law. There is something inherently wrong with a person who would do that. Rhiannon, Milne and the whole bunch of green lawbreakers should be chucked out of parliament!

  7. Nuke Gray

    No need to chuck them out- the next election should see them reduced to a harmless rump. The only thing to do with greens is to eat them.

  8. Rodney

    I see an oportunity here. First short the shares in the name of your late grandma or some such and then run the hoax. Money for jam.

  9. Jazza

    Ah Sinclair, you need re-educating: it’s all about one law for the rest of us and another or the same one non applicable, for the Greens, who
    after all, “are trying to save the environment” so are morally superior

    ERRGH!
    And these punks actually have the power to have an effect on MAKING OUR LAWS,in the current parliament
    Are we all stark staring mad or just living in forced machochism?

  10. Simon

    It may be criminal and stupid but arson it is not. It must have taken all of three hours to repair the damage and if it hadn’t had been for the idiots that didn’t check all the bona fides and ran with the “gossip” this wouldn’t have scammed so many. If investments are so sensitive why are we putting so much wind into the sails of free markets. I don’t remotely support this moron or his methods but it just a tad rich to be calling for severe punishment of some jumped up toad who was neither an investor nor director of either of the companies involved. I.D. theft is I.D. theft and that’s whats happened here, he could have pretended to be a doctor and killed someone instead but he pretended to be a spokesperson for a private company. No corpse to flog and no soul to be damned and no real damage to the investors nor lenders. There isn’t much but childishness to the whole thing.

  11. boy on a bike

    I suggest we spend the next election campaign sending a few hoax Greens press releases to Ben Cubby at the SMH every day. After a week of that, he might get the point.

  12. H B Bear

    Expect Fauxfax and Their ALPBC to be running interference for this feral until he is sentenced. Unless our fearless eco-warrior spends some meaningful time in stone college expect more of where this came from.

    I’m not holding my breath.

  13. Gab

    This is such an excellent comment by Ian Roberts on the other Moylan thread that I am posting it here. (Hope Ian doesn’t mind).

    There was nothing noble about little Johathan’s fraud.

    He engaged in formal publishing across all Australian states, and every overseas country that could receive those online media reports. As such he clearly breached publishing laws in each of those places – some more so than others.

    He published libellous literature that affected the reputation of two companies; he committed identity fraud by impersonating someone; he breached telecommunication laws by transmitting fraudulent material; he breached telecommunication laws by impersonating someone; he breached the ANZ Bank’s copyright; he probably breached hate laws in some countries; by an illegal act, he fraudulently published material with the potential of misleading overseas investors; he knowingly and actively encouraged media outlets to publish fraudulent material; by inference, he defammed the reputation (sic) of individual journalists; by actively attempting to cripple national infrastructure, he may well have overstepped anti-terrorism laws.

    And by publicly supporting him, I wonder if certain politicians could be party to illegal behaviour after the act.

    Juvenile behaviour, but hardly clever and certainly not harmless. This one cannot be allowed to pass.

  14. Louis Hissink

    Well, I discovered over a decade ago, (~ 1996) that the Greens and their travellers control the EPA’s etc and the bureaucracies as well. Not all the bureaucracies mind you, but they are beavering away at it, are truly entrenched and simply waiting for their time to ratchet up the environmental regulation madness.

    The left are also hell bent on forcing us to live more sustainable lives, so combine the two and you have a political group that has legislative power, its operatives in the public service and its commandos like the present individual.

    Most of us really don’t understand what has happened – we are being politically raped and don’t even notice it.

  15. mundi

    He has breached so many laws…. he is probably to iggnorant to realise.

    just trademark laws alone make him responsible for all financial loses incurred by anz since he knowingly and deliberately used their logo.

    i don’t think share holders have a leg to stand on though, they should have confirmed and checked sources, not relied on 3rd party media reports.

  16. …it does leave the Greens having to explain why destroying economic prosperity and shareholder value is for the ‘good’.

    Well does THIS answer your question duuuhh?

  17. Keith

    I suggest we spend the next election campaign sending a few hoax Greens press releases to Ben Cubby at the SMH every day. After a week of that, he might get the point.

    An excellent idea. The best part would be that no matter how outlandish you made them, they would be plausible when compared to the usual Greens dribble. Cubby wouldn’t be able to discern the difference, unless he was in daily communication with the Greens (which might be the case).

  18. Grey

    I suggest we spend the next election campaign sending a few hoax Greens press releases to Ben Cubby at the SMH every day. After a week of that, he might get the point.

    You would probably find yourself in breach of some kind of Electoral Act – so be my guest.

    I think the Liberals tried that in Lindsay in 2007 – it didn’t go down to well.

  19. stackja

    “Bob Brown Coal” is good because it is the leaves on the ground that sustain the wildlife or so we are told. But “Bob Brown Coal” feeds the inferno that mostly nature starts to further the forest life. How many animals perish because of the unnatural ferocity of fires that “Bob Brown Coal” fuel. While Milne/Rhiannon are against “bad coal”. The Greens and their fellow Earthians are definitely weird.

  20. Jannie

    The good thing about this is that it makes clear that the Greens see fraud as a legitimate strategy to further their aims. The ends justify the means. Explains why ‘climate science’ is riddled with academic fraud, its the main strategy.

  21. dd

    He impersonated someone in order to destroy that person’s wealth, and the wealth of others associated with that person. I don’t see how there are shades of grey here.

  22. Maws

    he pretended to be a spokesperson for a private company

    No he pretended to be a spokesperson for a publicly listed company – there is a difference

    no real damage to the investors nor lenders

    really?? so all those people who sold their shares have no potential losses whatsoever??

    if it hadn’t had been for the idiots that didn’t check all the bona fides and ran with the “gossip”

    “gossip”, it was printed on ANZ Letterhead

    I think you best go out into the real world and find out how things really are

  23. candy

    The stupid young bugger is probably getting frightened now, about going to jail or paying a big fine,
    but the law has to apply to everyone no matter the reason for the crime, no matter the crime.

  24. Fred Furkenburger

    Wheres Alena Composta when you need her!!

  25. dd

    the law has to apply to everyone no matter the reason for the crime, no matter the crime.

    Exactly.

    The rule of law is an old and important principle of free society. It means that the same laws apply to everyone.

    It’s a tradeoff. Mostly we don’t break the law, even to achieve noble objectives, because we’ll get arrested.

    Moylan decided the objective was too important, so he chose to break the law and risk prison time. The outcome is a best case scenario for Moylan in that he achieved his objective and got lots of positive press into the bargain.

  26. brc

    I see an oportunity here. First short the shares in the name of your late grandma or some such and then run the hoax. Money for jam.

    Exactly. Even if the dimwitted camp-dweller wasn’t bright enough to organise someone to trade on this hoax, the outcome is exactly the same. If they don’t throw the book at this guy, how long until someone does it for profit purposes, and just uses the ‘civil disobedience’ front for cover?

    I mean, get a friend to short the shares or buy puts. Engineer the hoax, get the friend to trade it. Then admit later on you did it for ‘environmental crusade purposes’. If they let this guy off, you could legitimately ask why him and not you. If the friend did some light options trading up until the point of the hoax, then it would be very, very hard to prove wrongdoing.

    Absolutely money for jam, and very corrosive for the orderly operation of markets.

  27. Dan

    Has anybody in the ALP come out to criticise this stunt?

  28. dd

    If they don’t throw the book at this guy, how long until someone does it for profit purposes, and just uses the ‘civil disobedience’ front for cover?

    I didn’t even think of that.
    If any investors had their ear to the ground in the right circles in Newcastle in recent weeks they would have cleaned up.

  29. Sinclair Davidson

    I think you’ll find that individual investors sue him – the more entrepreneurial law firms should be hitting him with class actions pretty soon.

  30. Grey

    I think you’ll find that individual investors sue him – the more entrepreneurial law firms should be hitting him with class actions pretty soon.

    Come now, you’ve got his laptop, do you want his skateboard as well?

  31. Eddystone

    THE Greens leader, Senator Christine Milne, has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist, saying his actions were ”part of a long and proud history of civil disobedience, potentially breaking the law, to highlight something wrong”.

    A lot of us feel that the stupid gun laws are repressive and counter productive.

    I’m sure Tubbsie would support some civil disobedience in that area.

    (Not a death threat nor a statement of intent to break any gun laws, which I scrupulously follow. :) )

  32. Tom

    Has anybody in the ALP come out to criticise this stunt?

    McTernan has the press release on his desk: Gillard defends activist’s rights. It just hasn’t been issued. That’s why Gillard hasn’t said a word about it publicly, implying approval: Green votes are more important than jobs. Tubbsy Milne is sock-puppeting the Prime Minister of Australia.

  33. Tom

    Come now, you’ve got his laptop, do you want his skateboard as well?

    How old are you? 12?

  34. papachango

    Still, the timing can’t be more perfect.

    Just as the Greens try to disguise some of their more radical and loopy policies, here they go endorsing serious criminal fraud.

    Not just that old Stalinist Rhainnon, but their leader as well.

    Shows how trustworthy they are. If you need any more proof, go back to Adam Bandit Bandt’s writings as a radical Marxist, about how the Greens are a bourgeois party worth infiltrating.

  35. Grey

    How old are you? 12?

    12 dog years.

  36. Rohan

    Wheres Alena Composta when you need her!!

    Didn’t she commit suicide by sticking her head in an electric oven?

  37. dd

    Come now, you’ve got his laptop, do you want his skateboard as well?

    Yes.

  38. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    Has anybody in the ALP come out to criticise this stunt?

    I wouldn’t call him a stunt, I might however call him something that rhymes with that.

  39. Gab

    Wonder how much this rumourtrage affected superannuation funds?

  40. papachango

    Wheres Alena Composta when you need her!!

    Oh I dunno, Rhiannon and Tubbsie Milne are doing a pretty good job all by themselves..

  41. Tom

    12 dog years.

    Wow! It’s Bob Ellis!

  42. garry

    This might serve as a warning for those people who trade the market and have automatic sell orders in place, to protect them from downside price movements. They would likely be the group to most readily be burnt by this market manipulation, though one would expect the ASX to cancel the transactions for this period.

  43. H B Bear

    Comrade Rhiannon’s mere presence in the Federal Parliament should offend most Australians.

  44. Come now, you’ve got his laptop, do you want his skateboard as well?

    Yes, and everything else he owns. Watch us care…

    His comrades have stolen the forest industry workers entire livelyhoods, poured sand in their machinery engines.

  45. Tintarella di Luna

    THE Greens leader, Senator Christine Milne, has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist, saying his actions were ”part of a long and proud history of civil disobedience, potentially breaking the law, to highlight something wrong”.

    I wouldn’t want to mix them up but which one is Christine Milne?

  46. Carbon Emitter

    Don’t forget Shane Rattenbury, ACT Green MLA, who when speaker of the ACT Assembly supported/condoned the actions of Greenpeace in destroying genetically modified plants at a local CSRIO station. Despite this the clowns in Canberra elect him again and now he runs the local labor show!

  47. jupes

    A spokesman said: ‘‘ASIC’s initial inquiries will focus on if there has been a breach of the Corporations Act (Section 1041E – false or misleading statements). If there appears to be a breach, ASIC will investigate and take timely and appropriate action.’’

    Timely action. Yea right.

    If they were to take timely action they would have charged him already. How freaking hard is it to work out that he broke the law?

  48. Tom

    It doesn’t get any more blatant than this: ShakeMyHead.com has totally buried the Green leadership’s endorsement of the activist lawbreaker, which was filed this morning as a business story, while leading with the hysteria it is whipping up over the annual bushfire threat.

  49. boy on a bike

    THE Greens leader, Senator Christine Milne, has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist, saying his actions were ”part of a long and proud history of civil disobedience, potentially breaking the law, to highlight something wrong”

    Oh goodie. Let’s go bulldoze a few million acres of protected vegetation and shoot a skip full of flying foxes while we’re at it.

  50. Skuter

    It may be criminal and stupid but arson it is not. It must have taken all of three hours to repair the damage

    Simon, tell that to anyone who sold their shares, particularly if they were on the wrong end of a margin call…

    Exactly. Even if the dimwitted camp-dweller wasn’t bright enough to organise someone to trade on this hoax, the outcome is exactly the same. If they don’t throw the book at this guy, how long until someone does it for profit purposes, and just uses the ‘civil disobedience’ front for cover?

    I mean, get a friend to short the shares or buy puts. Engineer the hoax, get the friend to trade it. Then admit later on you did it for ‘environmental crusade purposes’. If they let this guy off, you could legitimately ask why him and not you. If the friend did some light options trading up until the point of the hoax, then it would be very, very hard to prove wrongdoing.

    So true brc. If this is waved through then insider trading/market manipulation is effectively no longer a crime.
    The greens reaction is a bit rich considering they were warning companies about issuing what they considered ‘misleading information’ in regards to the introduction of the carbon tax.

  51. Keith

    Not just financial arson, but outright theft. Think of the opportunity costs that everyone associated Whitehaven has had to bear. Tinkler in particular was forced into asset sales in order to raise cash to help the firm. There are probably plenty of other examples.
    Even if no harm were done, this idiot’s actions are still not justified, nor legal. Others above have pointed out the consequences of not pursuing this fool in the courts. The copy cats would flourish, ‘noble’ motivations or not.

    Might as well let off people who run red lights if no one is injured. Mayhem would ensue.

    I think you’ll find that individual investors sue him – the more entrepreneurial law firms should be hitting him with class actions pretty soon.

    While I totally support the sentiment and the principle Sinc, this fool probably has no assets, so lawyers are unlikely to pursue him.

  52. Craig Mc

    Please let there be evidence on that laptop revealing a conspiracy between The Greens and said knob-end. I’d love to see the look on Bob Brown’s face when sheriffs march in to confiscate everything they own, and will own.

  53. boy on a bike

    I’d love to see the look on Bob Brown’s face when sheriffs march in to confiscate everything they own, and will own.

    What would ASIC do with 50 pairs of sandals, a bong collection, a cupboard full of hemp shirts and a yoghurt weaving loom?

  54. Interesting point, Craig.
    It wouldn’t take much to drag BBs scrawny arse into court to answer conspiracy charges.

  55. Mark

    I am just wondering how this guy can sit in a state forest for 158 days.

    Who funds this?

    Is he on any government benefit?

  56. JC

    So we now have two Australian senators, Repugnant Rhiannon and Tubbsie Milne openly advocating law breaking.

    These rancid sacks of shit should be immediately charged with advocating criminal acts.

    Anyone recall how Jones was dragged over the coals over the accusations his program started the Sydney riots?

  57. Joe

    If you can’t be a good person, then you’ll just have to be a horrific example.

  58. Dan

    I am just wondering how this guy can sit in a state forest for 158 days.

    Who funds this?

    Is he on any government benefit?

    I too am dumbfounded. I gather you need a special purposes permit and related fees. Holders of this particular permit also must submit incident reports to FNSW.

    Are these fools really that into paperwork?

  59. Prompete

    Where do I donate to the legal fund to assist those individuals who lost money? sue the idiot

  60. Steve of Glasshouse

    When the good senators swear the oath of allegiance and affirmation, does it cover , or imply, that they will uphold the laws of the land ? One of those murky constitutional issues..

  61. Tel

    If the friend did some light options trading up until the point of the hoax, then it would be very, very hard to prove wrongdoing.

    Just buy when it hits the bottom, you know the hoax will unwind. If anyone asks say you thought you were outsmarting a bunch of HFT short sellers who were crashing it. Sell again at leisure. Makes you look like one of the “good guys”, hey.

    That’s all entirely hypothetical of course, not that I would be advocating insider trading. I do advocate that news media should check and double-check their sources if they want to be taken seriously, and so should anyone making a trade. I don’t believe our current insider trading rules are even remotely enforceable so this sort of stuff is going to happen one way or another (not always as blatantly hoax oriented as this one). For that matter, I don’t believe we will ever get reliable accuracy and balance out of our news media…

  62. Tel

    Even if the dimwitted camp-dweller wasn’t bright enough to organise someone to trade on this hoax, the outcome is exactly the same. If they don’t throw the book at this guy, how long until someone does it for profit purposes, and just uses the ‘civil disobedience’ front for cover.

    It opens you to different prosecution. If you can be proven to have done it for personal gain then you are up for fraud, plain and simple. Then you are dealing with the cops (known for their use of capsicum spray and hollow points).

    Without the personal gain, they need to use the corporations act which is a bit more obscure, and you are dealing with ASIC (known for their harshly stinging wrist slaps).

  63. Tapdog

    Well the Greens are trying to run a ‘civil disobedience‘ line.

    Greens leader, Senator Christine Milne, has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist

    Since when has it been even a teensy bit acceptable for Senators to advocate a campaign of ‘civil disobedience’ (aka ‘breaking the law’) ?

    Big elephant tiny parlour

  64. pablo

    The Newcastle Herald is today reporting three WHO breaches of fine particle dust levels emanating from upper Hunter coal mines, two of them in Singleton – population around 15000. It puts activist Moylan’s actions into a moral perspective.

  65. Jim Rose

    Rawls was good on civil disobedience.

    • In a nearly just society, civil disobedients address themselves to the majority to show that, in their considered opinion, the principles of justice governing cooperation amongst free and equal persons have not been respected.

    • Rawls argues that civil disobedience is never covert or secretive: it is only ever committed in public, openly, and with fair notice to legal authorities and done in a situation where arrest and punishment are expected and accepted without resistance

    • The intent to bring about a change in the policies or laws of the government. The intent is not to impose your will on others.

    • For Rawls, violent acts likely to injure are incompatible with civil disobedience. ‘Indeed’, says Rawls, ‘any interference with the civil liberties of others tends to obscure the civilly disobedient quality of one’s act.

  66. Grey

    Without the personal gain, they need to use the corporations act which is a bit more obscure, and you are dealing with ASIC (known for their harshly stinging wrist slaps).

    Well quite, I think Moylan should be barred from serving on any boards for at least, and I mean at least, 5 years.

    No – I am adamant. There must be punishment here. 5 years.

    He must suffer the bitter torments that Brown, Gillfillan, Koffel, O’Brien, Terry and Wilcox bore:

    In 2009, the Supreme Court of New South Wales found that former chairwoman Meredith Hellicar and ex-directors Michael Brown, Michael Gillfillan, Martin Koffel, Dan O’Brien, Greg Terry and Peter Wilcox had misled the stock exchange in relation James Hardie’s ability to fund claims. They were also banned from serving as board members for five years.

  67. .

    So we now have two Australian senators, Repugnant Rhiannon and Tubbsie Milne openly advocating law breaking.

    Lee Rhiannon is a traitor who took money from the enemy during the Cold War, as they pointed nukes at millions of our civilians.

    Perhaps having her sent down for a life sentence or even lethal injection pre 1995 wouldn’t be too severe.

    She is a traitor. Maybe she is Australia’s first traitor.

  68. dd

    The Newcastle Herald is today reporting three WHO breaches of fine particle dust levels emanating from upper Hunter coal mines, two of them in Singleton – population around 15000. It puts activist Moylan’s actions into a moral perspective.

    no, it demonstrates coordinated action.

    Are these breaches of the law, or simply breaches of WHO guidelines? Were they noticed by the public or is this merely opportunistic release of information by a bureaucrat?

    But even if there’s a ‘moral perspective’ the whole point of civil disobedience is to disobey the law… and thereby risk criminal charges. The law should not be waived because some criminal believes they are on a moral crusade. John Lennon’s assassin would be walking free if that was your criterion. He thought he was doing something good for the world, too. He was on a crusade against phoneys.

  69. Samuel J

    It’s nothing to do with free speech. He committed fraud out and out. And deliberately engaged in stock market manipulation.

    If a group of people passionately and genuinely thought trees were evil, and then went around killing trees, would the Greens applaud them for their courage?

  70. Grey

    If a group of people passionately and genuinely thought trees were evil, and then went around killing trees, would the Greens applaud them for their courage?

    Winston Smith (here) thinks solar panels are evil and appears to be suggesting he goes around destroying them. JC applauded him for his courage.

    So the answer to your question is “quite probably”

  71. face ache

    The level of Green and Labor thinking is “Gee, that’s a good idea , let’s do it.

  72. Dr Faustus

    He must suffer the bitter torments that Brown, Gillfillan, Koffel, O’Brien, Terry and Wilcox bore:

    Great call, Grey. He must.

    These people were earning, what, about $250k per year in Board fees – an aggregate loss of $1.25 million over 5 years. I agree completely with your analysis: the proper authorities must garnishee Moylan’s NewStart allowance for the next 500 years.

    And then the fraud and deception charges…

  73. Gab

    appears to be suggesting

    Does not mean he is.

  74. Gab

    The Newcastle Herald is today reporting three WHO breaches of fine particle dust levels emanating from upper Hunter coal mines, two of them in Singleton

    I don’t suppose evidence is necessary.

  75. Grey

    Great call, Grey. He must.

    These people were earning, what, about $250k per year in Board fees – an aggregate loss of $1.25 million over 5 years. I agree completely with your analysis: the proper authorities must garnishee Moylan’s NewStart allowance for the next 500 years.

    Innovative thinking, Dr Faustus, I like it.

    So, if I take your meaning, fines should be contingent on people’s income? You are not the first to suggest this.

    If I am fined $500, about my after tax janitor’s wage per week, for speeding, then a broker ought to be fined 1/52 of their annual income for the same offense?

  76. Dr Faustus

    Grey: The income-variable speeding fine concept is wildly popular in Denmark and Finland. I could understand the argument applied to deterring other areas of antisocial behaviour.

  77. hzhousewife

    Pablo said

    The Newcastle Herald is today reporting three WHO breaches of fine particle dust levels emanating from upper Hunter coal mines, two of them in Singleton – population around 15000. It puts activist Moylan’s actions into a moral perspective.

    Pablo, an awful lot of southern Australia was subject to fine particle dust, hot winds and firestorms yesterday,
    who do we sue, God? Meantime, wanna come by and wash my car for me?

  78. Samuel J

    So we now have two Australian senators, Repugnant Rhiannon and Tubbsie Milne openly advocating law breaking. (JC)

    Exactly, and both took an affirmation (probably not an Oath) of office when they became Senators:
    Those words were:

    I, A.B., do solemnly and sincerely affirm and declare that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria, Her heirs and successors according to law.

  79. Giorgio

    Speaking of fires and arson, I have seen Tony Abbott volunteering and the Prime Minster at least paying lip service to the unfortunate.
    Where are the greens during this most destructive fire season, aside from playing hoaxes on the stock exchange?

  80. Glider

    Your ABC has tonight produced a 7.30 Report that interviewed both the Green things and the unconvicted ANZ letter writer. Not one question or dissent. Lovely green music of gum trees and birds for Milne and harsh noise grabs for the mine pictures. Please add the ABC production team to the pending class action.
    This makes me sick and I am disgusted with both the electronic and print media non coverage or investigative reporting of this affair.

  81. blogstrop

    Not to mention the ABC News new look – The Colour Purple. “The entire state in flames!”, the unbearable heat, the bells! the bells!
    Yesterday was hot. Tomorrow may be hot. We have no air con, just fans. We are surviving. Tasmania was devastated by fires in 1967, Victoria in 1983 and now again in recent years – why now more often?
    As Phil Cheney (one of our most erudite fire authorities) said, you need to burn off regularly and at least 10% of the forests. The Victorian commission into the last disaster listened to that with one ear and recommended 5%.
    Greens own the disasters, and don’t let them forget it.

  82. wreckage

    It puts activist Moylan’s actions into a moral perspective.

    Yeah, and if there’s a corrupt cop in town, you’re entitled to rob banks. It calls attention to the problem and raises awareness.

  83. Honesty

    Given the Greens principle on this what crimes would be acceptable to commit against the Greens in the name of a heart felt cause? Or is it just what Greens decide and it is only available for them to use against others?

  84. JC

    Given the Greens principle on this what crimes would be acceptable to commit against the Greens in the name of a heart felt cause? Or is it just what Greens decide and it is only available for them to use against others?

    Begin the process of destroying stuff like solar plants and windmills. It wouldn’t be hard actually and because of locality, and the areas needed particularly for solar plants, dead easy.

    Only a few would have to be destroyed and the rest of that disgusting rent seeking industry would be unable to obtain insurance thereby imperiling future projects.

  85. Jim Rose

    there is a difference between chaining yourself to something or another to get your cause on the telly and cause real financial disruption.

  86. Paul

    “She is a traitor. Maybe she is Australia’s first traitor.”

    First?? Latest!

  87. Sean

    What a bunch of clowns. Brown obviously did a reasonable job to keep them in check. He wouldn’t have made the same mistake as Milne and Rhiannon . He would have simply made a claim in politi-speak about ‘Australian’s wanting action on climate change etc. etc.’ which never gave much ammo as it doesn’t directly answer the question.

    This would put people like Manne in their place. Having claimed that he voted green as they were the only responsible party in Aus, can he still stand by that claim (not that it ever wasn’t BS)?

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