Wednesday Forum: January 9, 2013 at Catallaxy Files

Wednesday Forum: January 9, 2013

942 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

January 9th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

Posted in Open Forum

942 Responses to 'Wednesday Forum: January 9, 2013'

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I’d have a go at making the first comment but I don’t really have anything to say…

Tim

9 Jan 13 at 6:47 pm
Which Lefty will be-clown themselves most on this new thread?

Token

9 Jan 13 at 6:49 pm
Bronze!

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 6:50 pm
#4

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 6:57 pm
There Will Be No Economic Recovery, Prepare Yourself Accordingly…

prepared for a US audience.

Will

9 Jan 13 at 6:59 pm
‘There will be no economic recovery under a government I lead’.

Will

9 Jan 13 at 7:03 pm
Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax – just on ABC News 1605 hrs WST.

What planet does she come from ?

Louis Hissink

9 Jan 13 at 7:05 pm
I missed this the other day. Tim Wilson in The Australian (kaching$$$)

It’s ironic that the two largest advocates for progressive, nanny-state regulations are those who are also the biggest advocates for a woman’s right to choose what to do with her body.

In the 2006 debate on the use of RU486, former health minister and the present Attorney-General Nicola Roxon argued: “I do not believe that parliament should be some busybody neighbour or social policeman in our community.”

Tanya Plibersek, who is now the Health Minister, argued she “respect(ed) women enough to believe that they have the ability and right to make such decisions for themselves”.

Revolting duplicitous swines.

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 7:07 pm
Some crims tell why they are so excited by the gun map being published by the Gun for Me but not for Thee types:

Ironically, some of the harshest critics of the Journal News’s decision to publish the map are former burglars, such as Walter T. Shaw, an ex-burglar whom the FBI blames for more than 3,000 break-ins during the 1960s and 1970s. Shaw told Fox News: “Having a list of who has a gun is like gold — why rob that house when you can hit the one next door, where there are no guns?”

Equally disturbing, crooks who need weapons now know exactly where they can steal them. “Guns are on the top of the list of what you want to steal,” Bob Portenier, a former armed house robber, told Fox. “They can sell them to a gangbanger who ends up killing someone.”

Token

9 Jan 13 at 7:08 pm
The French had A machine called a Guillotine years ago ,it was used to dispose of useless mouths in politics,it was very effective,even in those days Australia Desparately Needs one after This Years Election,to clean up the alp/ groin./uniwanker Shit.

Borisgodunov

9 Jan 13 at 7:21 pm
PS.it would save Massive super and pesion payouts too!

Borisgodunov

9 Jan 13 at 7:23 pm
Geeez Will….”there are 88million Americans unemployed and not looking for a job….” That might be a problem?….nah, good for gold.

Alfonso

9 Jan 13 at 7:26 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty in regular volunteering?

I am majorly impressed by our future Prime Minister doing his bit as a rural firey. Typically Labor trolls have been all day trying to smear and tear his efforts down, yet if Gillard did just 1/100th of what he did, they’d be lauding her ‘bravery’ from the rooftops.

I think I’ve just worked out just why Labor loathe Abbott so much – his selfless acts and bravery diminishes and embarrasses them, exposing them as selfish cowards. Labor/Greens like to perceive themselves as virtuous and better than the rest of us flawed creatures, so when a Conservative comes along who demonstrates actual virtue and decency, then all they are left with is mocking and smearing.

A Lurker

9 Jan 13 at 7:37 pm
I found this interesting from http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/09/how-to-stop-school-shootings-right-now-abolish-pretend-gun-free-zones/

At Columbine High School, the attack coincided with the “school resource officer” (a sheriff’s deputy) being off-campus.

The officer returned during the start of the attacks, and fired some long-distance shots at the killers.

Those shots drove the killers into the school building, and saved the lives of several students who had been wounded.

the officer failed to pursue the killers into the building. Dozens of additional officers arrived within minutes, but none of them entered the building either, even though an open 911 line indicated that killings were taking place in the library, while police stood outside just a few feet away.

At least 11 of the 13 Columbine deaths could have been prevented if the police had acted promptly.

since Columbine, police tactics have changed drastically, to emphasize that whoever is at the scene should immediately and aggressively counter-attack an active shooter.

Jim Rose

9 Jan 13 at 7:38 pm
IPCC documents have been leaked! Fun for all the family: go through the Australasia section and enjoy yourselves by matching the names of contributors to their impeccable green agendas.

I’ve started the ball rolling.

Philippa Martyr

9 Jan 13 at 7:41 pm
Labor/Greens like to perceive themselves as virtuous and better than the rest of us flawed creatures, so when a Conservative comes along who demonstrates actual virtue and decency, then all they are left with is mocking and smearing.

After today’s sneering efforts from adult Labor members of parliament, I would have to agree with this statement, Lurker. They’re behaving like jealous little school girls. I’m convinced if Abbott was in Labor he’d be hailed as a role model by the lamestream media and the current sneering and jeering “honourable” memebers of the left.

A beloved father of three girls, husband to a beautiful wife, volunteer firefighter, volunteers to help Aborigines directly, surf lifesaver, Rhodes scholar, wicked bike rider and iron man, runs marathons to raise money for women’s shelters – perhaps Labor thinks he’s too good to be true. A sore reflection on them in that case.

By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 7:54 pm
Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax – just on ABC News 1605 hrs WST.

She was just on 730 cheering on the hoaxer.
People who believe in a cause and take direct action are to be applauded.
Presumably if I hoax Sea Shepherd into diverting away from Japanese whalers because I believe strongly in sushi, she old be happy with that.
And all this from a party which wanted jail terms for people who spoke up about the cost of the Air Tax.

The lefty AFR deserves a whack as well for swallowing he story whole and reporting it as fact without checking directly with ANZ.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 7:54 pm
I am majorly impressed by our future Prime Minister doing his bit as a rural firey. Typically Labor trolls have been all day trying to smear and tear his efforts down, yet if Gillard did just 1/100th of what he did, they’d be lauding her ‘bravery’ from the rooftops

.

Spot on Lurker.
Compare and contrast the grovelling press reports when the libellous slapper Bligh turned up AFTER the floodwaters had passed crying crocodile tears in a vain attempt to cling to power.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 7:57 pm
what volunteer work does gillard do?

Pro bono work for special friends.

lotocoti

9 Jan 13 at 7:58 pm
By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

She’s famous for her pro bono legal work for mssrs Wilson and Blewitt, Gab

squawkbox

9 Jan 13 at 7:58 pm
What planet does she (Milne) come from ?

I dunno?
One without Earthians presumably.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

There was some pro-bono work for her Union lover about seventeen years ago.

Aside from that, not sure, although I think I read awhile ago something about her knitting some things for charity.

I know knitting needles can be dangerous implements when wielded by the wrong hands, but I don’t think they can compare with being out in the heat and smoke fighting wildfires.

A Lurker

9 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
hhahahaha.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
Actually she did bring some chicken soup around for a friend when she was laid up with the ‘flu, back in here uni days. I don’t believe she made the soup though.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 8:03 pm
Louis wrote “Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax – just on ABC News 1605 hrs WST.

What planet does she come from ?

Planet Tas. The natives have regressed and lost the use of fire.

Steve of Glasshouse

9 Jan 13 at 8:04 pm
‘I am majorly impressed by our future Prime Minister doing his bit as a rural firey. ‘

So am I, A Lurker. Can’t think of any parliamentarian, let alone future PM, with involvement in the community and physical toughness to do the same.

candy

9 Jan 13 at 8:07 pm
Thanks for that positive comment Candy.

blogstrop

9 Jan 13 at 8:11 pm
Louis wrote “Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax – just on ABC News 1605 hrs WST.

This woman is an absolute disgrace to the senate. She has the integrity of a skunk.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 8:13 pm
By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

I believe she volunteers at the Save My Fat Arse op-shop every Thursday.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 8:16 pm
I think I read awhile ago something about her knitting some things for charity.

For charity? Nah. Knitting for Wong and friend’s new arrival, wasn’t she?

Septimus

9 Jan 13 at 8:16 pm
Correct.
She was knitting a blanket for the spawn of k d wong.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
She was knitting a blanket for the spawn of k d wong.

That was nothing more than a stunt.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 8:18 pm
She was knitting a blanket for the spawn of k d wong.

That’s right, I remember the details now. Thanks for the memory update.

Geezus, what a packed resume of selfless deeds she presents to us. No wonder the Left is trumpeting her virtue from the rooftops.

/sarc

A Lurker

9 Jan 13 at 8:22 pm
This woman is an absolute disgrace to the senate. She has the integrity of a skunk.

That is a bit harsh on Skunks JC, I am sure that Skunks have some good virtues!

Old Fridgie

9 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty in regular volunteering?

It would appear Slippery Pete has been selflessly putting his liver at risk to save the struggling vignerons of the greater Canberra area.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
This woman is an absolute disgrace to the senate. She has the integrity of a skunk.

I am consulting my lawyers regarding this outrageous defamation!!!

Pepe le Pew

9 Jan 13 at 8:31 pm
Pete’s work amongst the itinerant ferrymen and after-hours entertainment venues is legend.

blogstrop

9 Jan 13 at 8:32 pm
There Will Be No Economic Recovery, Prepare Yourself Accordingly…

My journey into anarcho-capitalism began listening to podcasts of ‘Free Domain Radio’ in the car on the way to work. Stefan Molyneux presents very well; it’s good too see he’s still going.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 8:33 pm
Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax

Just like according to Julia Gillard it’s all the WA Corporate Affairs Commissioner’s fault that he was taken in by her letter of comfort.

I’m going to send out some letters claiming to be a wealthy Nigerian prince and see whether the Milne/Gillard defence works for me.

Andreas

9 Jan 13 at 8:36 pm
She has, without any thought for herself, relieved various wives of their conjugal burdens.

lotocoti

9 Jan 13 at 8:37 pm
without any thought for herself

Oxymoron alert!

Septimus

9 Jan 13 at 8:41 pm
Christine Milne just blamed the investors of Whitehaven Coal for not twigging it was a hoax – just on ABC News 1605 hrs WST.

She was just on 730 cheering on the hoaxer

.

You can bet she’ll find it so funny if some hoaxers bring down Wotif and to rob the Greens benefactor of much of his fortune…after all it merely be part of a fine Australian tradition.

Token

9 Jan 13 at 8:47 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty in regular volunteering?

The member for Dobell is said to have helped many a young damsel in ~~undress~~ distress. And, like a true philanthropist, he doesn’t like to talk about it.
This continues a long tradition handed down from one generation of ALP members.
For example there was Leo MacLeay for his services to cycling and the insurance industry.
And Graeme Richardson’s contribution to industry concentration in printing shouldn’t go unnoticed.
What about Carmen Lawrence helping publish works of fiction about people called Penny?

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 8:52 pm
Love your work Leigh

Tiny Dancer

9 Jan 13 at 8:54 pm
Gab:

By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

Well, according to Pickering Juliar’s volunteer work involves tempting Bobby Brown!

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 8:58 pm
Long memory Tiny.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 8:59 pm
Someone on the old OT made an unflattering and unkind comparison of firefighter Tony Abbott with Kevin Rudd. Look, I have to defend Rudd here. His emergency response credentials are second to none.

C.L.

9 Jan 13 at 9:01 pm
Bob has been relieved of that distasteful duty, Mk50.
He is now doing his Jolly Rogering for Sea Shepherd waving his cutlass and taking the cabin-boys lanyards between his teeth to help them make the grade as Able Semen.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:02 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty in regular volunteering?

Ahahahahaha.

C.L.

9 Jan 13 at 9:03 pm
Hey, lots and lots of senior ALP men do volunteer work, especially with children! What about Milton Orkopoulos, Bill D’Arcy, Keith Wright, Terry Martin, Bernard Finnigan and Bob Collins?

Oh, wait….

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 9:05 pm
Is that Kevvy helping carry Slippery out of a nightclub?
All I remember about Kevin in a crisis was him making off through the floodwaters with an overseas student’s suitcase.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:05 pm
Yes indeed Mk50.
I think if we stack the ALP up against the Catholic Church, we might find the ALP has more convicted kiddie-fiddlers pro-rata than the church.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:08 pm
Will, thank you very much @6:59pm.
I have no rebuttal to that.
The US is fucked.

jumpnmcar

9 Jan 13 at 9:11 pm
Who would’ve thought this would happen?

Now, though, as consumers embrace electric vehicles with new gusto, the airport says its parking incentive has become unsustainable. If electric-vehicle drivers were to completely fill both lots that are free to them, the airport could lose $120,000 a day, totaling $44 million a year.

While no other major airport offers such a generous incentive, several cities offer free parking for electric cars in metered spaces. They include Las Vegas, Cincinnati, Salt Lake City, New Haven and San Antonio—all of which could eventually find themselves in binds similar to LAX’s, since most municipalities rely heavily on parking revenue to support their budgets.

Revoking such benefits is a delicate task: When the City of London, home to much of Britain’s financial industry, abruptly axed free electric-car parking in 2008, angry petitions circulated among drivers demanding the privilege be restored, arguing that many of them bought the small, expensive cars mainly to get the free parking.

Token

9 Jan 13 at 9:13 pm
What the spavined inbred cretins of the left (Andrew, Sh*tferbrains, Monty, Ghey etc) can never, ever explain is this.

1. Criminals and the insane commit gun massacres.

2. Law abiding registered gun owners, most of who follow the sport of range shooting here in Australia, do not commit gun massacres.

3. Yet every time the former commit a massacre, the left wants to punish the second group, the people who did not do it and who, were they able to, would most often be the first responders able to stop the crime.

Therefore, the left care zero, zip, zilch for the actual criminal issue – they are pursuing an ideological aim of theirs.

As always, it’s really just about power for these mentally diseased left-wing motherf****rs.

My view is coloured. I once lived next door to a couple who once lived in a country where only the police and government had guns. And that was why they met each other: but this is not a romantic tale, for they met in Auschwitz.

Both came from rural families. Both said that ‘had we been armed, most of us would have been able to escape into the forests instead of being rounded up like cattle, and butchered’.

I also saw a movie about a place where only the police and government had guns. It was called Schindlers List.

(Ghey and Monty will now have trouser accidents in their enthusiasm over the uniforms)

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 9:14 pm
Don’t include Andrew. He’s young and naive!

Wait until he has a family.

For posterity…

If someone tried to invade your house and rape someone’s daughter, then the likelihood is that the person breaking and entering into a house would already have a gun on the daughter, holding your daughter hostage, with no opportunity to use her gun.

Plenty of rapists have been killed lawfully in the act.

There is a deterrence effect.

They are enforcing the law, you are not. If we had everyone carrying guns around with them, any little indiscretion could and likely would result in the use of a gun to kill someone. Simply not necessary.

Except that doesn’t happen in reality. US states that have this kind of culture have no mass shootings and low violent crime rates.

They are enforcing the law, you are not

They are not [except in very, very rare cases] allowed to enforce the law with a gun. They may only use a gun, for self defence or other lawful killing. Enforcing the law virtually never sees lawful killing, only in rare and sad cases.

At the same time, even if they came into your house to kill you, in most cases you are not going to have enough time to grab your gun, load it and shoot the person.

Sounds like if you were a crim, you’d like those odds.

We know from the data that it puts doubt in people’s minds to the extent there is a significant social benefit in deterrence.

Also, outside of NSW, you are allowed to sensibly store your gun and ammunition. In NSW, ammunition and handguns are treated as the two components of VX gas.

Yes he is and he has made some good contributions here. Gun law is an emotional issue for many people, understandably, and Andrew got a little hot under the collar today. No biggie. On other threads he has put forward good, clear arguments.

All he needs to do is see some unrepentant thuggery, then marry a beautiful woman and have some kids…and he will understand that civil, reasonable and innocent people should have the right to be armed against criminals who couldn’t give two craps about gun laws and registration etc.

For example Andrew: do you believe in castle doctrine, or self defence?

How can one be armed in a modern society to enforce these rights?

.

9 Jan 13 at 9:21 pm
Bob has been relieved of that distasteful duty, Mk50.

Leigh – actually Bob is hoping to get sunk by a whale so he can have all hands to the mast and seaman running everywhere.

Carpe Jugulum

9 Jan 13 at 9:21 pm
Leigh Lowe, you of course knew that Bob Brown has a long interest in whales, back before he had to change his name via deed poll due to a minor indiscretion!

Although Sinc insists he’s working to save live ones these days, which is a good thing.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
Oooooh …. You are naughty Carpe.
One of us channeling Dick Emery, the other Mrs Slocum.
Not sure who is who.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:25 pm
BO’C of the many boats followed McT script and tried to smear Tony then a quick apology again by the McT script but hoping mud sticks on Tony. This is going to get monotonous. …smear… apology….

stackja

9 Jan 13 at 9:25 pm
By the way, what volunteer work does gillard do?

Gillard volunteered to sell her body for the use of Emerson.

Don’t include Andrew. He’s young and naive!

Maybe you are stuck in your ways and are unable to see that what happened in ‘your day’ was not the best way? I have already debated this topic in the other thread and have answered pretty much all of your points. If you want my opinion on the issue, it is in the past forum.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 9:30 pm
“3. Yet every time the former commit a massacre, the left wants to punish the second group, the people who did not do it”

To be fair, they are not thinking about the issue as punishment. They are thinking that the law that allowed the criminals and the insane easy access to the guns to conduct the massacres is to blame, and if changing that law hurts the law-abiding sporting shooters… well, too bad.

Jarrah

9 Jan 13 at 9:30 pm
Every time I see Bob, SHY, Milne and co bleating about whales, I push one item a few spots higher on the bucket list.
That is, get to Japan and tuck into a monster whale steak.

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:34 pm
I have already debated this topic in the other thread and have answered pretty much all of your points.

not really.

We went and examined the gun buyback effect (if you’ll allow me to coin a phrase) on gun crime and it seems to be a mirage. Gun crime was in steep decline year on year before the buyback.

We provided real examples of real people who are alive and unharmed today only because they had a weapon in the house… including a 12 year old girl.

As mentioned upstream, there’s an interesting movie about a place where only the police have guns, called “Schindler’s List.”

But as I said, I’m indulgent to anti-gun people because it’s the default position in Australia and so most people are anti-gun because that’s what everyone else is.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 9:35 pm
For example Andrew: do you believe in castle doctrine, or self defence?

Dot – i don’t think Andrew has had the joy of a wife and children.

If he had he would understand that if someone breaks into your home with an intent to harm your family, (i’m the sort of guy who is very protective of his wife & daughter), then doing harm to the person who has violated your home is purely the act of protecting your family.

If he were a parent, the phrase “expect no mercy”, would make sense.

Carpe Jugulum

9 Jan 13 at 9:35 pm
Blam, blam, blam …… Blam, blam.
Stop or I’ll shoot!

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:36 pm
There Will Be No Economic Recovery, Prepare Yourself Accordingly…

prepared for a US audience.

It goes for an hour. One hour of depressing facts and figures. I couldn’t take it.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 9:39 pm
Andrew

Maybe you are stuck in your ways and are unable to see that what happened in ‘your day’ was not the best way

Listen here, sonny, most people here have experienced a bit more of life than you and with that comes different perspectives, different insight and a bit more knowledge of how the world works, relativley. Don’t for a minute think that some of us did not have similar opinions as you when were we younger, back in the Stone Age. As for me, Methuselah that I am, I would have agreed with you on very very strict gun laws just three years. After having seen the reasoned arguments, and statistics covering 20 year span, presented here by various threadsters, I have changed my views.

You do yourself little service by using age as an argument in any debate. It is lazy, jejune and lacking in insight.

Do better.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 9:40 pm
this is the best start to an open thread i can remember!

Harrys on the Boat

9 Jan 13 at 9:41 pm
Stick around harry, they’re always pretty good.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 9:43 pm
70?
Damn.

kae

9 Jan 13 at 9:44 pm
LL:

Blam, blam, blam …… Blam, blam.
Stop or I’ll shoot!

Bugger, that home invader is still moving.

Blam.

Now, all at one with Nineveh and Tyre?

Excellent.

Darl, call the lawyer willya? After you do that I’ll ring the cops.

FTFY

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 9:46 pm
We went and examined the gun buyback effect (if you’ll allow me to coin a phrase) on gun crime and it seems to be a mirage. Gun crime was in steep decline year on year before the buyback.

No you did it. Most of you, if not all, psychotically ranted on about these crazy hypotheticals. I provided evidence to the contrary of you and because it didn’t suit any of your arguments, you completely ignored them.

Carpe Jugulum, you really think taking the law into your own hands and shooting people is the answer, then that is your prerogative. The fact of the matter is, that a large majority of times, you are going to have very little opportunity to use your gun to defend your family.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 9:47 pm
Dunno about that There Will Be No Economic Recovery, Prepare Yourself Accordingly… gloomfest.

Detailed examination of their energy supply long tem tells a very different tale.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 9:48 pm
Andrew, I don’t want to argue about who won the argument last time around, because that seems kinda pointless. You think you won. Okay.
here’s a smiley face.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 9:50 pm
Hey …. don’t bleed on my carpet you prick!
Blam!!!!

Darl, call the lawyer willya? After you do that I’ll ring the cops.

Don’t forget to call the ambulance (after a respectful delay).
At least pretend to care!

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 9:53 pm
Andrew, I don’t want to argue about who won the argument last time around, because that seems kinda pointless. You think you won. Okay.
here’s a smiley face.

Fair call, dd. I will give you a smiley face for a fair debate

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 9:57 pm
No you did it. Most of you, if not all, psychotically ranted on about these crazy hypotheticals. I provided evidence to the contrary of you and because it didn’t suit any of your arguments, you completely ignored them.

One last time dumphy, they were not hypothetical. they were real live examples you incomparable dimwit.
Do you understand the difference or would it have to be beaten into you with a pile drive?

Carpe Jugulum, you really think taking the law into your own hands and shooting people is the answer, then that is your prerogative. The fact of the matter is, that a large majority of times, you are going to have very little opportunity to use your gun to defend your family.

There’s also a natural god given law that one protects his/her family or a potential victim.

To use another example.. there was an attack on a shopping mall around 3/4′s of the way through last year. People were at first surprised that the murderous loon was only able to kill a small number of people until it was found out that a member of the public with a carry and conceal weapon actually shot back at the prick who then went around the corner and did the right thing by blasting his head off. The person carrying the gun possibly saved dozens of lives.

One other thing, as we’ve shown the buy back has done little to reduce the homicide rate carried out by guns. It’s a lie.

You’re wrong, accept it and fuck off. You lost.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 9:58 pm
Dammit, I knew I missed a call there somewhere.

‘Oviously, the shock of the home invasion where the armed me violently smashed their way in shouting they were going to kill us all had me like I was standing outside my own body watching it all unfold, so no, officer, I will not be saying a single word to any policeman or making any statement whatsover as I am too distressed. Talk to my lawyer. Only.’ [ostentatiously self-medicates with a large tumbler brimming with whisky]

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:01 pm
Why did Bob Brown go Jolly Rogering with Sea Shepherd?
Did Sea Shepherd belong to Aristotle Onassis in a previous incarnation?
Is this what attracted Bob?
See para 5

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 10:03 pm
Dunno about that There Will Be No Economic Recovery, Prepare Yourself Accordingly… gloomfest.

Oh I think it’s broken. I’ve been optimistic about America until very recently but it’s clear they can’t change course.

The US currency is fucked, it’s carrying way too much debt. Plus, they have no political willpower to fix their deficit, and they are locked into skyrocketing welfare payments in a few years.

America needs a deregulation push like the one that Australia had from the 80′s through to the mid 2000′s. They’re losing jobs to China because excessive regulation stops new businesses from starting up, and prevents existing businesses from thriving.

And there are multiple potential triggers. If Obama tries to bail out California, for example, it’s all over red rover.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:03 pm
JC, I like your new style.

Mow ‘em down, bayonet the wounded and dance on their festering carcasses works for me when it comes to totalitarians.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:04 pm
I’m hoping JC will come along and tell me I’m wrong.
JC? That’s your cue for some optimism about the US.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:06 pm
Hells bells, LL.

Eeeeeew… he’d never stop licking the barstools

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:07 pm
The notion of fixing crazies doing harm by banning guns is disconnected as well. You’ve got someone who can’t be trusted not to hurt their fellow citizens with a firearm, but if we take away all firearms this will somehow deliver a functional society? Sure the people would kill each other if they had a chance but it’s alright now because I can’t perceive how people will hurt each other. That’s retarded to say the least.

This is not the same as assessing someone as unfit to own firearms and acknowledging they don’t have full control over their own faculties and removing some of their freedom because they’re not a rational, functioning human being.

But it does sit with the left-wing philosophy of accepting less and having lower expectations: “yeah, society doesn’t work but that’s just how it is, despite what you see around you humans don’t really function a sensible fashion, we just need to disempower people until we can push them together and see if we can tweak it with laws to at least make it look like it’s working”.

A recipe for a shit society, as history has proven from time to time.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:09 pm
Mow ‘em down, bayonet the wounded and dance on their festering carcasses works for me when it comes to totalitarians.

I am a totalitarian because I oppose guns? ON most of these issue I am quite libertarian, for example on free speech and cigarettes.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:09 pm
I’ve read Andrew’s views on other things and thought he was a sensible conservative and his comments interesting to read.

If he’s only 18, well that’s impressive, to my mind.

candy

9 Jan 13 at 10:09 pm
Mk50

Diyed Ah say Lawyer?
Hot damn!
Ah was downright sure Ah meant to say Amberlance.

And you know what I’m thinking. “Did I fire six shots or only five?” Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world ….. etcetera, etcetera

That last bit might be a tad cliched but anyway …….

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 10:10 pm
One last time dumphy, they were not hypothetical. they were real live examples you incomparable dimwit.

They largely were and the one real example is extremely rare.

You’re wrong, accept it and fuck off. You lost.

You are a rather pathetic human being if that is the way you think a debate works. Someone disagrees with you and you tell them fuck off? I think that says more about you than me.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:11 pm
Vegans don’ t lick them sorts of barstools Mk50

Leigh Lowe

9 Jan 13 at 10:11 pm
I’ve read Andrew’s views on other things and thought he was a sensible conservative and his comments interesting to read.

If he’s only 18, well that’s impressive, to my mind.

Thanks for your kind words. I am only 18. Perhaps I have less experience on some of these issues than others on here, but I don’t accept the barbarian style debating that some people employ, even those who are on my side of the debate quite often.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
So what to do if you find yourself in this situation?

They’re the armed gangs targeting bottle shops and terrorising staff and customers.

Now, A Current Affair has obtained chilling new security vision of the robberies as police hunt the bandits before they strike again.

Relying on the good graces of a bunch of knife wielding thugs does not strike me as the safest option.

But as we are legally prevented from carrying any item for the purpose of self defence, and the most useful item, a firearm, is specifically forbidden to be owned for the purpose of self defence, there is really no other option.

I wonder what legal recourse a citizen who was robbed or injured would have against the State that has made it illegal to have the means of self defence.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
I am a totalitarian because I oppose guns? ON most of these issue I am quite libertarian, for example on free speech and cigarettes.

Lol… we’ve certainly come a long way and done a 180 when a person thinks he’s libertarian because he supports free speech and thinks it’s a personal choice to light up a cig.

Wow, Andrew, like I’m really fucking impressed. Can I please have your autograph?

Those are default positions, you nincompoop. They only became issues because we have an essentially totalitarian left attempting to subvert such easy things to support.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
“Maybe you are stuck in your ways …”

Got any mates, champ, who spent a lifetime as cops and have advised you exactly what to do if confronted? How many of your chinas keep one over there, one up in the bedroom and another out in the grudge (even though it’s – shudder! – illegal and they’ve had to enforce that, no matter how reluctantly)? It seems Carpe Jugulum has and heeds them.

Ever handled a gun? Smelt it? Felt the kick? Thought not. Your uninformed subjective theories remain merely that. Don’t breed just yet.

What about having one pointed at you? Would you snarl “Ace it up”? or ship your pants? You don’t know, do you?

And this “reaction time” whimper of yours – what do you base that on? Ever tested yourself, taken a punch or a tackle or a fast ball in your guts and come back from it? You wouldn’t have a bloody clue.

So you can take your opinion and repeat it all day long to your opiniated besties and, in time, one hopes you reap the whirlwind of your extraordinary ignorance.

“stuck in your ways”?

Do you insult your parents so? Do they deserve such dismissiveness?

You are stupid. Good, that makes it even easier for older blokes who know a bit.

I now have nothing further to offer that will be of value to you.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

9 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
You tell him, Gramps

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 10:16 pm
Thanks for your kind words. I am only 18. Perhaps I have less experience on some of these issues than others on here, but I don’t accept the barbarian style debating that some people employ, even those who are on my side of the debate quite often.

Only it doesn’t apply to you, right bud.

No you did it. Most of you, if not all, psychotically ranted on about these crazy hypotheticals

.

If you want to wear a white sheet draped around you, make sure you’re really Jesus.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
All busts must boom but the US is entering a new phase. The next century won’t be like the last.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
Oh you are a classic Gabrielle – love it!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

9 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
Lol… we’ve certainly come a long way and done a 180 when a person thinks he’s libertarian because he supports free speech and thinks it’s a personal choice to light up a cig.

I was using those issues as examples. Clearly I have plenty of other stances that would be regarded as Libertarian. Read my entire post, especially the part where it states “for example”.

Do you insult your parents so? Do they deserve such dismissiveness?

I responded to someone with that line who dismissed me because of my age, so I used the same logic on them. You didn’t like that line so you have obviously proved my point about how silly it is to be ageist.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
DD it’s been over for years, which is why the election result really was irrelevant, just one more wriggle in a busted system. (The leftards hate me saying that for some reason)

That’s why I have been watching what’s going on at local and state level, and watching the frankly insane self-proclaimed US aristocracy as they drive great wedges into US society. All the Preshizzle (Paco™) and his incompetent Alinskyite nepotist kleptocrats have done is accelerate the process.

We may be at the start of the end game, or (if you will) at the commencement of yet another revolutionary process in the USA. This is their seventh (revolutionary war, expansion of internal frontiers, civil war, industrialisation, global Imperial power, Great Society Chimera now this one) and they are actually overdue: the GSC was mild. There is a good argument that this is the phase 2 of the GSC, the backlash to it overreach. We’ll know in a century or so if that’s right.

I am actually quite confident. They do tear themselves apart and rebuild themselves to new patterns really well. And most often it’s not even very bloody – although stand from under if it does go that way as they will reach very, very definite conclusions no matter what the cost.

There’s always a chance it will go that way, which would be really unfortunate. Let us all hope and pray it does not.

I’m betting on the Constitutionalists.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
They largely were and the one real example is extremely rare.

huh? There was a string of real examples of people who defended themselves against home invasions. If you thought they were hypotheticals you mis-read. stop complaining that there were no real examples when there were plenty. And there are plenty more where they came from.

The fact is that real people are walking around alive and unharmed because they had a weapon to defend themselves.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
A little fatherly understanding wouldn’t hurt, guys.

candy

9 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
Andrew, this blog is brutal, but it’s that adversarial nature that brings out the higher quality arguments and insightful perspectives. You’ll learn more here than elsewhere.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:21 pm
I am a totalitarian because I oppose guns? ON most of these issue I am quite libertarian, for example on free speech and cigarettes.

How does one “oppose guns”? Guns exist. You may not wish to own one, but others do.

If you are talking about gun control, you can introduce gun control but you cannot control guns. Even in Australia, with secure borders and a history of tight control (except Tasmania) there is still drive by shootings in Sydney and armed hold ups.

The USA is totally different. There exists a constitutional right, and with porous borders there is no hope of implementing gun control. Witness Chicago. The crime situation is totally different as well, with a certain minority rather over-represented. If you are white in the USA, you buy a gun to protect yourself from this unspoken of minority.

In the case of the USA, you need security, not gun control, as gun control will never work.

Will

9 Jan 13 at 10:22 pm
And broadly, there’s no evidence that gun laws stop gun crime; the Salon study was dodgy in several ways, and there is ample data the other way.

Gun control advocates need to address the reasons that gun owners give. Specifically in the US the right to keep and bear arms is for self-defence; and to defend against tyranny or invading or occupying forces.

The war against guns is exactly equivalent to the war on drugs. Of course it would be better if guns didn’t exist and if there were no drugs. But there are. They exist. The genie is out of the bottle.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:24 pm
In the 2006 debate on the use of RU486, former health minister and the present Attorney-General Nicola Roxon argued: “I do not believe that parliament should be some busybody neighbour or social policeman in our community.”

Nanny Roxon actually said that? Just when I think the Greens have taken the Gold Medal for Hypocricy you pull this shit out.

Fuck Me Dead – cancel all hypocricy contests henceforth and immediately make that woman the General Secretary of the UN Department of Hypocricy.

papachango

9 Jan 13 at 10:26 pm
To be fair, they are not thinking about the issue as punishment. They are thinking that the law that allowed the criminals and the insane easy access to the guns to conduct the massacres is to blame, and if changing that law hurts the law-abiding sporting shooters… well, too bad.

No.

It is far easier to access a gun ILLEGALLY, than it is LEGALLY. Cheaper too.

They don’t want to be made into criminals for being sporting shooters.

The conclusion you came to was prejudiced and misinformed, even bigoted.

Carpe Jugulum, you really think taking the law into your own hands and shooting people is the answer, then that is your prerogative.

Self defence and lawful killing are not vigilantism nor are they are indicative of a breakdown in a rule of law. Clearly a vendetta is quite different to legitiamte self defence and lawful killing.

Are you also aware of s 100 of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW)?

The fact of the matter is, that a large majority of times, you are going to have very little opportunity to use your gun to defend your family.

Huh? Why do you keep on saying this? How do you know? What matters is DETERRENCE.

The fact is, outside of following NSW rules on handgun storage, picking up a gun and loading isn’t very time consuming.

I mean, do you rob people and take notes in your spare time?

Why not make sweeping statements about learning any form of self defence as well?

Just think: how long will it take you to call the cops, and for them to arrive?

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:26 pm
Oh I think it’s broken. I’ve been optimistic about America until very recently but it’s clear they can’t change course.

The US currency is fucked, it’s carrying way too much debt. Plus, they have no political willpower to fix their deficit, and they are locked into skyrocketing welfare payments in a few years.

America needs a deregulation push like the one that Australia had from the 80′s through to the mid 2000′s. They’re losing jobs to China because excessive regulation stops new businesses from starting up, and prevents existing businesses from thriving.

And there are multiple potential triggers. If Obama tries to bail out California, for example, it’s all over red rover.

DD, I’m a little on the optimistic side. I don’t think it will fall over a cliff and just tread above water until there’s some serious supply side reforms that are done.

The energy side is hugely positive and US firms are incredibly healthy with lots of cash, while the banking system is perhaps only a six months away from cleaning up the residuals of the GFC (writing them down).

Look, I’m also optimistic after 2016 and I am so because I think there will be a decent Demolition and
GOP candidate people will choose from. I’m actually quite optimistic if Hilary runs as I think she would make an okay president. I know the last comment is going to cause rocks being thrown at me.

The actual structural deficit in the US is around 2% of GDP while the rest is caused by the slowdown. This isn’t a huge hurdle to surmount.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:27 pm
I responded to someone with that line who dismissed me because of my age,

That’s not true, Andrew. The only age-dismissing carry on is from you. ….and to think I defended you on the other thread and this is the thanks I get!

Yoof of today, no respect.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 10:28 pm
Andrew, this blog is brutal, but it’s that adversarial nature that brings out the higher quality arguments and insightful perspectives. You’ll learn more here than elsewhere.

Fair enough. I still don’t see the necessity to resolve to name-calling and being told to “fuck off” because of having a different view. That belongs out in the ‘school yard’ and not amongst grown adults who are suppose to be ‘mature’ and know how to debate properly.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:29 pm
A little fatherly understanding wouldn’t hurt, guys.

No. He needs to learn the hard way. If he wants a cuddle he needs to ask his mother and we’re not his mother.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:30 pm
Andrew:

I am a totalitarian because I oppose guns?

Child, what on earth makes you think the world revolves around you, or that I give you a second thought?

You are a completely clueless and gormless newbie most here (and I) have taken little notice of. We’ve had – and demolished – a lot of left-wing totalitarians here including several devout practising leninists, at least one stalinist, some hitlerites, a white supremacist and more holy rolling greenfilth AGW religious maniacs than you can poke a stick at.

you are less than nothing here at this stage, a zero without a rim.

Back in your box, son. Watch and learn over the next year or two. Then you might understand a little more.

BTW, just so you know, noob, I am not a libertarian. Nor am I a conservative.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:31 pm
Um that’s great Andrew but you haven’t answered or rebutted anything I said and I was very pleasant to you.

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:31 pm
The fact of the matter is, that a large majority of times, you are going to have very little opportunity to use your gun to defend your family.

That’s just not true. Most crime is not performed by SWAT teams and SAS veterans; it’s happazard, amateur, and opportunistic, with rough edges.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:33 pm
what volunteer work does gillard do?

Typing for Socialist Forum.

boy on a bike

9 Jan 13 at 10:33 pm
There was a string of real examples of people who defended themselves against home invasions. If you thought they were hypotheticals you mis-read. stop complaining that there were no real examples when there were plenty. And there are plenty more where they came from.

There was one last week in Texas where a potential mass murderer was stopped by an armed person. No media coverage beyond the local area. Why?

Andrew, this blog is brutal, but it’s that adversarial nature that brings out the higher quality arguments and insightful perspectives. You’ll learn more here than elsewhere.

Andrew, this blog is abusive, it is that nature which reveals the lack of impulse control and the hubris of those who consider themselves so superior to everyone else that they are entitled to rubbish the greater part of humanity as being beneath them.

John H.

9 Jan 13 at 10:33 pm
dd

Very well said.

A pet topic of mine at the moment is the devastation in Mexico due to the drug war, and the legal and illegal immigration to the US from Mexico because of it.

The cynic in me says that Americans cannot bitch about immigration if it is a problem, as Butcher Harris said, they sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.

More so with re electing Obama who ran that fast and furious scandal.

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:35 pm
My question to you all: Has Christine Milne now been seen to have publicly Jumped the Shark?

Did dirty-arsed hippie Moylan have help that still hasn’t fessed up? There’s no way that little twat could have done this by himself. Too sophisticated.

Paul

9 Jan 13 at 10:36 pm
Glad it cooled down today, after the third hottest day yesterday:

“On Monday the average maximum daily temperature record for Australia was broken at 40.33°C. The previous record, 40.17°C on 21 December 1972, was held for 40 years. The daily average maximum temperature yesterday (8 January 2013) is a close third at 40.11°C.

“The number of consecutive days where the national average maximum daily temperature exceeded 39°C has also been broken this week—seven (7) days (between 2–8 January 2013), almost doubling the previous record of four (4) consecutive days in 1973,” said Mr Plummer.

http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/media_releases/ho/20130109.shtml

SteveC

9 Jan 13 at 10:36 pm
I still don’t see the necessity to resolve to name-calling and being told to “fuck off” because of having a different view

You left out the big bit. There is necessity when the other party is being a complete fucking arsehole, by being stupid and dishonest. You achieved both. Others like the steves Twins, Monster and the recent spate of dickheads that recently blew in have been doing so every day.

You lied about the stats…. the Howard laws did nothing to the rate in a statistically meaningful way as was shown to you and you were offensive too. So take off the white shroud as you’re not Jesus.

That belongs out in the ‘school yard’ and not amongst grown adults who are suppose to be ‘mature’ and know how to debate properly.

One thing you will always get here. If you’re called a clown, an asshat, a twerp, arsewipe or simply told to fuck off, the person is always told why.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
Gillard’s done plenty of volunteer work. She’s been the town bike of Melbourne and now Canberra for two decades.

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 10:38 pm
dd

Of course it would be better if guns didn’t exist

Not really.

A gun gives a 100 pound granny equal footing with a 200 pound thug. That has to be a good thing.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 10:38 pm
It’s drugs that may be the major part of crime and shootings in the US. I hope it’s not coming here but I fear we’re ‘importing’ trouble.

candy

9 Jan 13 at 10:40 pm
Andrew, this blog is abusive, it is that nature which reveals the lack of impulse control and the hubris of those who consider themselves so superior to everyone else

Well, in the common law system we have adversarial trials where people confront their accusers, attempt to discredit them, and unashamedly have a right to put forward their perspective.

In the civil/continental legal system we dampen all these attributes in the name of fairness and removing conflict. I’m pretty happy the common law one is fairer and more dependable.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:40 pm
Back in your box, son. Watch and learn over the next year or two. Then you might understand a little more.

Sorry, but I am not going to be told to leave because someone who has a different view to me has told me do so in an abusive fashion and I will stand up for myself by people who think they can stand over people and tell them what to do. For the record, I am not a left-wing totalitarian troll. If you don’t take notice of me, that is fine. I have found many of the others on here rather pleasant to debate on here and many of you have replied to my posts, whether they have disagreed or agreed with me, with a polite but firm response.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:40 pm
Andrew, this blog is abusive, it is that nature which reveals the lack of impulse control and the hubris of those who consider themselves so superior to everyone else that they are entitled to rubbish the greater part of humanity as being beneath them.

I rubbish Alice generally, monty for his delusional dishonesty and ALP allegiance under any ciorcumstances, I ignore Steve from Pinkenba because he is outrageously asanine and mock Grey for being an outwardly obnoxious and haughty prick.

William Bragg is out of his mind. The Government can tell us what we really want! We ought to eliminate envy by taxing pro social responses to it!

Other than that, I learn a lot from anyone else.

THR was an unreprentant Marxist, Homer Paxton is illucid. No loss.

On LP in the good old days, you could comment with a little eye rolling but not much more.

The left turned feral on the election of Rudd and Obama. They got worse after Abbot nearly won and the 2010 US midterms.

Don’t blame me, I’m not even a conservative.

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:41 pm
JC

You lied about the stats…. the Howard laws did nothing to the rate in a statistically meaningful way as was shown to you and you were offensive too. So take off the white shroud as you’re not Jesus.

I think he was repeating an oft-cited factoid.
Rates of gun death are lower after the gun buyback, and I imagine that fact is used to justify the buyback. A perusal of the numbers shows of course that the gun crime had been declining since the mid-1980s.
————————-
dot.

A pet topic of mine at the moment is the devastation in Mexico due to the drug war, and the legal and illegal immigration to the US from Mexico because of it.

It occurred to me recently that socially conscious people love to boycott stuff. Nike, Esso, and so on.

Well, how about a boycott of cocaine? If you look at all the executions in Mexico – many of them children – in the name of the drug trade, then it is the most immoral product around. No person of good standing should purchase such a product when so much human misery has been caused by that industry.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
There is necessity when the other party is being a complete fucking arsehole, by being stupid and dishonest

I have different view to you. I used studies from the ANU and Harvard University to support my claims. If that is being a complete fucking arsehole, then so be it. If I am wrong, then so be it. It is you that really needs to grow up considering that you need to resolve to name calling to put your point across. I am not going to get involved in that game and won’t be responding to your posts anytime soon.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:44 pm
Oh my freaking God, The StevesC is back here giving us another weather report.

Hey, dickhead, is this going to be a daily occurrence, because if it is you should ask the blog owner if you could stick your weather prediction on the side of the site instead on filling the threads with your pathetic swill.

Look, you busted arse moron, it was shown to you last evening, at about this same time, that the entire Asian land mass is going or went through record cold weather. Your Australian weather report is just pathetic.

You tried to fact check me last evening and you were handed you stupid head on a platter.

Kimnberly your plastic sex doll is calling. Now go attend to her needs StevesC and stop wasting our time.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:44 pm
You are still dodging me Andrew.

It’s like I’ve got a psychological hold on you.

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:44 pm
Rates of gun death are lower after the gun buyback, and I imagine that fact is used to justify the buyback.

I should have added in schools.

dd

9 Jan 13 at 10:44 pm
Sigh. OK, OK.

To avoid reproachful glances from Candy. Andrew, I lurked here for three years before jumping in. It’s that kind of place. It is brutal for good reason, thats the way to deal with the innate, insensate and rapacious viciousness and anti-intellectual smallmindedness of the Australian left.

Alone in the Australian blogosphere, here is where their violently murderous anti-human, cell-deep evil meets a buzz-saw.

This is the most hated site in the country among the Australian left.

It is an absolutely fascinating community, with extraordinary depths of knowledge and (I’d wager) a greater concentration of practical PhD’s and (even better) senior, experienced people (historians, datamoles, miners, silks, engineers, research scientists, politicians….) than any other political blog in this country.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
Well, how about a boycott of cocaine? If you look at all the executions in Mexico – many of them children – in the name of the drug trade, then it is the most immoral product around. No person of good standing should purchase such a product when so much human misery has been caused by that industry.

Sounds like a good idea.

Can I boycott Government and paramilitary police as well?

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
average maximum daily temperature record for Australia

Where is that measured? Don’t tell me its caculated by an AGW funding hoover?

Steve of Ferny Hills

9 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
That’s your cue for some optimism about the US.

Plenty of guns and plenty of gas.

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
You are still dodging me Andrew.

Not at all, Dot. I am just getting many replies from various posters that I have not had time to address your points. I am off to bed soon, so I will consider replying to you then. That is more so because of tonight’s surprising response to my alternate view.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:49 pm
Rates of gun death are lower after the gun buyback

I wonder how many now choose to suicide by driving into a tree?

Steve of Ferny Hills

9 Jan 13 at 10:49 pm
As I said above,

A gun gives a 100 pound granny equal footing with a 200 pound thug. That has to be a good thing.

And here’s a case in point.

The 22-year-old man arrested after a brutal and prolonged rape of a 62-year-old woman in Nelson can today be named as Hilton Hone Heke.

…

He said many of the investigating team commented that the attack was one of the most severe non-fatal cases they had ever seen in Nelson.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 10:49 pm
Rates of gun death are lower after the gun buyback

Rates of gun death in the US are much lower after the greatest gun buying binge in human history.

Hey, maybe guns aren’t the cause?

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 10:51 pm
It is brutal for good reason

I agree that the debating is largely excellent here and a strong debating avenue is what is required in a good blog. That is why I came. I don’t think excellent, spirited debate requires straight out abuse like telling someone to “Fuck off” because they have a different opinion.

I make this solemn pledge to everyone, I won’t mention gun control on this blog EVER AGAIN.

Andrew

9 Jan 13 at 10:52 pm
I wonder how many now choose to suicide by driving into a tree?

Yes, if you look at the longitudinal AIC data, this is all that happens: some suicides, manslaughters and murders simply change the tool of execution, in descending power of significance.

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:52 pm
Oh, and JC might be an opinionated abusive arsehole, but he’s our opinionated abusive arsehole and we all bow to the sheer dedication of his life-long search for the ultimate mastery of invective.

Besides, he’s taught me some great new insults to use on leftards!

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
The US is such a diverse place both economically and culturally, with people ingrained with the concept of freedom, with drugs, the war on drugs, 25% of workers making less than US$10/hr, massive immigration legal and illegal, and a financial crisis. It’s the ownership of firearms and the tone of “behave yourself and respect others” that it sets for society that provides a large part of what holds it all together. I think if you took it away, with all other things being equal, the US would start to descend into a crap hole.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:54 pm
I have different view to you. I used studies from the ANU and Harvard University to support my claims. If that is being a complete fucking arsehole, then so be it. If I am wrong, then so be it. It is you that really needs to grow up considering that you need to resolve to name calling to put your point across. I am not going to get involved in that game and won’t be responding to your posts anytime soon.

No probs however i will be responding to yours if I feel like it you clown. As i first picked up and was later confirmed by DD, ANU stats clearly show that the Howard gun laws had no impact on homicides by gun in Australia. Unless I’m mistaken the link first came from you which basically means you didn’t read or understand your own fucking link, you idiot.

Here, I will post it again. It shows no noticeable change in the slope’s direction both before and after the Howard fascist laws were imposed.

Argue you that or STFU.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:54 pm
I won’t mention gun control on this blog EVER AGAIN.

Don’t be such a fag. We’d rather you were stubbornly wrong than a pussy. State your case and run with it until your knees give out.

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 10:55 pm
I wonder how many now choose to suicide by driving into a tree?

Apparently a better choice from an insurance perspective (obviously, I suppose) as no one can prove that it was self harm. A head on with a truck is apparently the preferred option.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:56 pm
On SteveC’s “records” – a few years ago Fox Sports pedestrian commentator Greg Clark was given to breathlessly announcing “records” as the most excitingest thing ever in any rugby match he called.

He had a golden period in broadcasting where he was able to offer (to the effect) “George Gregan is taking the field tonight in his record 127th Test, a record set just last week by his very own self when he played in his record breaking 126th Test!!!”

Mind you, George was playing like a broken down lawnmower, staying on two or three years longer than he deserved, but for Greg Clark the “record” was all.

When I see the BOM excitedly spluttering “record” I think first of George Gregan (“Yeah, so what?”) and then of the new clever ways that public service departments use to advertise themselves so that dumb politicians will give ‘em more dough in the next financial year’s budget allocations.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

9 Jan 13 at 10:56 pm
Guns probably need a rest here but I don’t see it happening with the debate apparently ramping up in the US and with the current administration looking to have a go on this issue but skirting the lower house if possible.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 10:57 pm
You are dodging me again, Andrew. :trollface:

.

9 Jan 13 at 10:57 pm
Hey Eddystone!

Found me a Martini Henry Mk II in .303. Bore’s a bit ropy and it’s Enfield not Metford… would you believe someone has had the damned cheek to fire the thing since it was converted in 1897?

Might wind up casting rounds at .316 instead of .311

Two weeks before I order the 577/450.

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 10:58 pm
Oops sorry they were Sydney Uni stats, not ANU. I’m guessing the Syd Uni stats are more accurate seeing the ANU has basically become a leftist propaganda toilet helped along by the obese Vice C whose name escapes me…. He was the fat idiot lying publicly about those so-called threats received over climate change.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 10:58 pm
I won’t mention gun control on this blog EVER AGAIN.

Don’t be petulant, Andrew.

Perhaps you might ponder some of the “alternative” arguments given here rather than just reacting to them.

Gab

9 Jan 13 at 10:59 pm
I seriously don’t know why purchasing over 1.2 BILLION rounds of ammo for the DHS and ICE is somehow “normal” and not to be questioned; Obama is supremely competent and any conspiracy theory is true false ipso facto…disregarding the theology of Dr. Rev. Wright.

.

9 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
Re Tony Abbott

A beloved father of three girls, husband to a beautiful wife, volunteer firefighter, volunteers to help Aborigines directly, surf lifesaver, Rhodes scholar, wicked bike rider and iron man, runs marathons to raise money for women’s shelters – perhaps Labor thinks he’s too good to be true. A sore reflection on them in that case.

When in mixed political company, I always state that I don’t like Tony Abbott, cite some of the above and conclude with the statement “because he makes me look like a sh*t!”

Just Another Bloody Lawyer

9 Jan 13 at 11:02 pm
“Glad it cooled down today, after the third hottest day yesterday:”

And didn’t Tony Abbott look so handsome and strong in his firefighting uniform. What a man!

candy

9 Jan 13 at 11:02 pm
I won’t mention gun control on this blog EVER AGAIN.

Good grief.

Hows about you realise that there’s people on this blog who do stats for a living, law enforcement, security, intelligence and military types with centuries of combined experience in that and related fields, and go from there?

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 11:03 pm
Candy:

“Glad it cooled down today, after the third hottest day yesterday:”

And didn’t Tony Abbott look so handsome and strong in his firefighting uniform. What a man!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa…

That’s a real zinger. Well done!

Mk50 of Brisbane

9 Jan 13 at 11:04 pm
The US is such a diverse place both economically and culturally, with people ingrained with the concept of freedom, with drugs, the war on drugs, 25% of workers making less than US$10/hr, massive immigration legal and illegal, and a financial crisis. It’s the ownership of firearms and the tone of “behave yourself and respect others” that it sets for society that provides a large part of what holds it all together. I think if you took it away, with all other things being equal, the US would start to descend into a crap hole.

John Mc

There’s a very good case to be made for a split up and although the immediate repercussions would be enormous the long term arrow would shift upwards for the place. The rump of the red states would be doing what they do, which to continue to develop and the blue states would end up looking like a sewer which in time would cause them to also mend their ways.

It would also be a good thing because despite papering it up with bullshit there really is no great sense of belonging if you’re a red stater compared to a bluer. What does a typical Texan have in common with a pansified hipster Californian for example? It would be about zero I reckon. A split would be great for the longer term.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:05 pm
Hey those crazy Republitards and their reckless spending cuts sure are ruining the states they’re in charge of:

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/01/08/texas-not-the-only-state-with-a-surplus/

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 11:08 pm
There is definitely a consistent redistribution between the states. I reckon if you got rid of some of that you could get much of the same effect without needing to break it all up.

Although a bit of talk about secession never hurts!!

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 11:08 pm
Mark, casting sounds the way to go with some of the old girls.

Apparently paper patching gives good results.

Picked up my sporterised MLE MkI* yesterday.

It has a replacement barrel, but the action is dated 1902, with the safety on the cocking piece.

It also has an SA and number stamped on the receiver, which I think indicates it was used by the South Australian Colonial Militia, (which I’m sure was very well regulated!)

Don’t know anything about that, so I will have to get into the State Library.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 11:09 pm
I remember firing a Bren Gun in school cadets in the mid 70′s under close supervision. Good fun, glad I wasn’t on the other end. We learn’t to take it apart and put it back together with our eyes closed.

I think the US NRA had a poster of an attractive young lass with a shot gun under one arm, the other on the phone. The caption was “one to stop them, one to make sure, reload, …call 911″

Having said that I think extensive training and a spotless record should be a prerequisite to owning a gun for self defence. Look at the number of loonies driving leathal weapons around these days…

Forester

9 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Andrew just being 18 & all. I word to the wise. Do not try the shit you just pulled tonight in any sort of bar inhabited by men. Unless of course you are interested in freelance rhinoplasty.

Just Another Bloody Lawyer

9 Jan 13 at 11:13 pm
john Mc…

A break up would more or less look like a Switzerland where the centre used to once be about as important as a fly dropping dead. In fact quite a few Swiss didn’t even know the name of the President for the simple reason that it didn’t matter, as the provinces were more important.

It wouldn’t mean trade would fall off as I’m sure it would be a free trade zone.

I’d actually welcome a split or even a loosening of Washington’s stranglehold on the rest of the country.
It was really fucking sad to read the other day that the zip codes of the surrounding Washington burbs now had the highest per cap income in the nation. That’s seriously fucked up.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
Personally, I think crime would be less if you could buy any type of handgun or longarm at the local deli, and take it anywhere you liked.

Misuse or endangerment would be crimes attracting stiff penalties.

The vast majority are responsible, but at the moment they are like sheep at the mercy of wolves, as in the ACA story I linked to above.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 11:17 pm
The first sign the cancer has set in is government employees on average earning more than the private sector.

John Mc

9 Jan 13 at 11:18 pm
Hey those crazy Republitards and their reckless spending cuts sure are ruining the states they’re in charge of:

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/01/08/texas-not-the-only-state-with-a-surplus/

Think about this… Texas is doing great and California looks like a perpetual bog hole with people streaming outta of the shithole. So they go to say Texas to find a job and live there. So what happens.. they vote..just because they moved there Californians take their fucked up voting habits with them and then start turning a red state into a blue state. It happened with the surrounding states around Cal which were always dependable red. This isn’t a good thing.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:19 pm
A break up would more or less look like a Switzerland where the centre used to once be about as important as a fly dropping dead. In fact quite a few Swiss didn’t even know the name of the President for the simple reason that it didn’t matter, as the provinces were more important.

That would be great here, JC. Fat chance though.

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 11:19 pm
The first sign the cancer has set in is government employees on average earning more than the private sector.

…and to think…that airhead on the ABC, Ali Moore, couldn’t get enough of rabbiting “global repricing of risk” on the ABC when the poor, young and indigent were suffering under the GFC.

How about we have a global retracing of risk/reward ratios for the Government and productive sectors?

.

9 Jan 13 at 11:19 pm
Eddy.. 30-50 years is a long time in terms of our lifespans, but a short period in history.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:20 pm
The first sign the cancer has set in is government employees on average earning more than the private sector.

The Hunger Games in real life.

This is why I show absolutely no mercy to leftie moochers.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:23 pm
Say it’s not true.

A Kentucky woman is facing a felony rap after allegedly trying to smuggle two hypodermic needles hidden in her vagina into a Louisville jail, according to corrections officers.

Smoking gun has the story.

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
“It is an absolutely fascinating community, with extraordinary depths of knowledge and (I’d wager) a greater concentration of practical PhD’s and (even better) senior, experienced people (historians, datamoles, miners, silks, engineers, research scientists, politicians….) …”

… and, of course, those from the noble profession of the sock tucker.

I spent decades in the Menswear Department of Mark Foys as a sock tucker, under the wise guidance of their top man, Cyril. As it turned out Cyril started his career as a cork soaker then tried his hand as a coke sacker. He eventually settled on window dressing, working intimately with Horace.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

9 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
Andrew is OK. He’s a Howardian on guns, is all.

Sad but there you have it.

Eleventy not really warranted.

C.L.

9 Jan 13 at 11:33 pm
It was really fucking sad to read the other day that the zip codes of the surrounding Washington burbs now had the highest per cap income in the nation. That’s seriously fucked up.

There’s a freaking real estate boom going on in DC and Virginia. Unbelievable.

The same shit is happening Australia. Until houses in Canberra are worth squat we are unworthy as a nation to carry on.

Infidel Tiger

9 Jan 13 at 11:41 pm
I spent decades in the Menswear Department of Mark Foys as a sock tucker, under the wise guidance of their top man, Cyril. As it turned out Cyril started his career as a cork soaker then tried his hand as a coke sacker. He eventually settled on window dressing, working intimately with Horace.

Of course you’d need a Uni degree nowadays!

Eddystone

9 Jan 13 at 11:42 pm
Thinga bewty: PERFORMANCE ART.

C.L.

9 Jan 13 at 11:47 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty in regular volunteering?

The only volunteering Labor politicians do in my area are openings, ribbon cutting and having things named after them though the electorate went Liberal in the last state election so there’s hope yet.

Crossie

9 Jan 13 at 11:53 pm
The same shit is happening Australia. Until houses in Canberra are worth squat we are unworthy as a nation to carry on.

Infidel Tiger, at least they are contained within the same small area. It’s when they start leaking out into Queanbeyan that we should start worrying.

Crossie

9 Jan 13 at 11:56 pm
Hey StevesC… are you 22?

Is this you? Kimberly will be upset.

Poor, Mortified Bastard, 22, Busted Trying To Steal Miley Cyrus Blow-Up Doll From Novelty Shop

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/miley-cyrus-love-doll-theft-867243

JC

9 Jan 13 at 11:56 pm
The people of Queanbeyan are normal. Anyone who lives in Canberra should be shot and all their possession given to the Salvos. No excuses.

Infidel tiger

9 Jan 13 at 11:58 pm
Q. Do any Labor MPs and Senators actually get their hands dirty…

Well, yes. Paul Sheehan reports, 2004:

You can learn a lot about people in toilets. I first encountered Senator Stephen Conroy in a toilet in the NSW Parliament. It was the morning of Tuesday, May 20, 1997. We were at Macquarie Street for a hearing of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, a federal committee conducting hearings around the country. Conroy was a member of the committee. I was there to present a submission on corruption in union elections…

As I walked in, he finished his business and walked out. He did not pause. He did not wash his hands. He went straight back to the committee room.

You do not forget such images.

Read the whole thing; remind yourself why this man has one of the more colourfully named websites in his honour.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:01 am
“I won’t mention gun control on this blog EVER AGAIN.”

Good grief.

Hows about you realise that there’s people on this blog who do stats for a living, law enforcement, security, intelligence and military types with centuries of combined experience in that and related fields, and go from there?

Mk50′s right, you know.

You generally won’t see commenters here bragging on their experience, backgrounds & accomplishments; you won’t see a lot of that “appeal to authority” shit with people rolling out their entire CV to give weight to arguments otherwise unsupportable by available facts. But if you hang out here long enough and actually read & consider others’ comments without going off all foot-stompy when debate gets a little robust, you’ll twig to the fact that there’s a very valuable breadth and depth of knowledge and experience here that you’d be stupid to ignore just because someone drops the occasional f-bomb.

I really can’t think where else in the Australian blogosphere you’d get such free-flowing commentary and discussion between people with such a mix of different educations, backgrounds and experience.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 12:02 am
Andrew is OK. He’s a Howardian on guns, is all.

He was also flat-out factually wrong on a number of his claimed points, but refused to address those who pointed that out. That’s irritating.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 12:05 am
It was really fucking sad to read the other day that the zip codes of the surrounding Washington burbs now had the highest per cap income in the nation. That’s seriously fucked up.

Glen Reynolds has been on that a lot lately. Hunger Games. Seriously worth having a look through some of those posts. Depressing, but.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 12:09 am
Andrew. Listen to me. Your rectum is no place for a gun. Unless he’s your trusted mate. SfbQC will attest to that

Tiny Dancer

10 Jan 13 at 12:15 am
Thinga bewty: PERFORMANCE ART.

That’s why I’ve never warmed to Blair – too bogan for my liking. At least Bolt has a bit of class.

Though I did one or 2 in my youth (as much as a dastun 200B is capable of it), I really don’t see the point of burnouts, apart from annoying greenies.

papachango

10 Jan 13 at 12:16 am
Andrew is OK. He’s a Howardian on guns, is all.

The kid’s an idiot. He deserves a good clip over the ears.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:17 am
That’s why I’ve never warmed to Blair – too bogan for my liking. At least Bolt has a bit of class.

Blair has class, Bolt is a wowser, you are a snob.

jupes

10 Jan 13 at 12:20 am
The kid’s an idiot. He deserves a good clip over the ears.

The kid could also be PM one, if he wants, and he’ll have the Cat to thank for that

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:23 am
one day..

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:23 am
Bolt and Blair, horses for courses. They each have their good and bad points.

Blair’s commenterati though… they’re immensely better value than Bolt’s.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 12:24 am
Blair’s commenterati though… they’re immensely better value than Bolt’s.

Of course they are.

Crossie

10 Jan 13 at 12:28 am
The kid could also be PM one day, if he wants, and he’ll have the Cat to thank for that

Gab, it doesn’t impress. Sorry. The current Neu Seeland PM who used to run my errands like picking up the car from service and the dry cleaning.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:28 am
John Key ? i read some strange things about him, eating crickets and grubs live on a TV show.

candy

10 Jan 13 at 12:46 am
John Key ?
Lol.

i read some strange things about him, eating crickets and grubs live on a TV show.

Did he? I certainly didn’t teach those eating habits. He was a very reliable trading assistant and never made a mistake.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:55 am
John Key ? i read some strange things about him, eating crickets and grubs live on a TV show.

That’s still not as bad as setting up a union slush fund.

Crossie

10 Jan 13 at 12:56 am
The current Neu Seeland PM who used to run my errands like picking up the car from service and the dry cleaning.

He obviously thrived under your expert guidance. Well done.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 1:01 am
Of course he did.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:15 am
When you think you’ve seen it all, lightweight Andrew Leigh is now an expert on the Liberal party.

IN the US, if you want to insult a right-winger call them a liberal. In Australia, if you want to insult a left-winger call them a Liberal. In both countries, liberalism has become detached from its original meaning.

It’s time to bring Australian liberalism back to its traditional roots. Small-L liberalism involves a willingness to protect minority rights (even when they’re unpopular) and a recognition that open markets are the best way to boost prosperity.

In Australia, Alfred Deakin is the politician most closely associated with liberalism.

As a Victorian legislator, Deakin supported the rights of trade unions to organise, and campaigned for better factory conditions.

After Federation, his party was closer on many issues to the Labor Party than the conservatives. Yet there was little desire among Labor members to make common cause with Deakin, so when Fusion took place in 1909 it was a marriage between liberals and conservatives.

Today, we’re seeing the divorce. On many issues, the modern Liberal Party of Australia has lost its commitment to minority rights. The Howard government could not bring itself to apologise to the Stolen Generations. Liberal frontbenchers today routinely describe asylum-seekers as “illegals” and “boatpeople”. No Liberals in the House of Representatives voted for same-sex marriage last September.

He really is a piece of work.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/liberals-are-conservatives-while-labor-is-the-true-party-of-alfred-deakin/story-e6frg6n6-1226550684478

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:33 am
Nicola Roxon: ‘Commenting on skirt length should be illegal.’

Speaking of skirts…

Morals campaigner Nicola Roxon.

Bergen-Belsen guard Irma Grese.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 1:37 am
Why on earth would they be giving this intellectual midget an oped in the Australian? Lets remind ourselves Leigh was the academic who accused the ABC of being right wing.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:37 am
“Morals campaigner Nicola Roxon.”

Industrial grade ugly squared and, I suspect, quite unpleasant to experience close up, olfactorily speaking. Comrade Casanova Short Bill ought to feel like dying of shame for mounting that. Urrrrgggghhhh!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

10 Jan 13 at 1:48 am
Shorten had a thing with Roxon?

Wow.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 1:51 am
Shorten had a thing with Roxon?

Wow.

And you’re surprised? It’s a swingers club with the occasional pedo thrown in.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 2:02 am
206th!

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 2:03 am
Really? How about when armed government troops went after David Koresch and his followers for no established reason they were a cult. It’s one of the worst examples of state over -reach in US modern history against what were essentially law abiding citizens.

Can you really be holding up a weirdo paedophile cult leader whose recalcitrance and whose totalitarian hold over his brainwashed followers contributed to the unnecessary deaths of men, women and children, not to mention law enforcement officers doing their job?

Aside from that, I agree with you that law abiding citizens should be able to own automatic weapons, under regulation.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 2:14 am
So, Gab… you check out that muzak?

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 2:14 am
Shut up Andrew. It’s not all about you.
You know when mummy and daddy said that you were the most important person in the world?
Well, they lied.
Oh and there’s no Santa either.

Winston Smith

10 Jan 13 at 2:15 am
This was in moderation because I used the Ped word…

A quote from JC in the last thread:

Really? How about when armed government troops went after David Koresch and his followers for no established reason they were a cult. It’s one of the worst examples of state over -reach in US modern history against what were essentially law abiding citizens.

Can you really be holding up a weirdo “pedo-banned-word” cult leader whose recalcitrance and whose totalitarian hold over his brainwashed followers contributed to the unnecessary deaths of men, women and children, not to mention law enforcement officers doing their job?

Aside from that, I agree with you that law abiding citizens should be able to own automatic weapons, under regulation.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 2:17 am
Shorten had a thing with Roxon?

Wow.

You didn’t know this?

In fact, a LOT of Australian female voters don’t know about the rooting and infidelity around people like Jools et al.

More’s the pity.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 2:20 am
Total media blackout on shooting where private citizen stopped mass murder by using a gun

There were no stacks of bloodied bodies because the gunman was stopped by an armed, off-duty law enforcement officer who used his firearm to protect himself and others.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038584_media_blackout_armed_citizens_saving_lives.html#ixzz2HUaVRRgN

John H.

10 Jan 13 at 2:22 am
The people of Queanbeyan are normal. Anyone who lives in Canberra should be shot and all their possession given to the Salvos. No excuses.

Yeah, if you want to risk getting bashed on a Saturday night for the sin of having a drink with your wife or mates at a pub on Monaro street. FMD there are some mouth-breathers in that shithole. Could be a nice place, but for the trash.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 2:25 am
Morals campaigner Nicola Roxon.

Bergen-Belsen guard Irma Grese.

from CL.

Beautifully done, CL, despite the need for eye bleaching after viewing those images.

Pedro the Ignorant

10 Jan 13 at 2:26 am
The Colossal Pile of Jibberish Behind Discovery, and Its Implications for Science Funding

John H.

10 Jan 13 at 3:00 am
I just noticed that you all have added a Liberty Quote from Professor Bunyip into the rotation.

“The first shame is that we have allowed self-interested authorities to build their bloody empires; the second is that we do absolutely nothing to foil their thievery.”
— Professor Bunyip

Excellent.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 3:10 am
I know I am late to this, but one shouldnt be surprised that Greens support both breaking the law and law breakers. The Greens are a supremacist movement. They see it as a virtue to break laws in support of their self annointed moral superiority. All totalitarian and fascist movements have a supremacist mind set built on a self anointed moral superiority to the victims of their moral superiority. This is the critical first step towards physically attacking people you disagree with. I am not saying the latter will happen, but how this case is handled will change the likelihood of it occurring.

We will take a giant stride towards Greens attacking people if the police take for ever to investigate and arrest these anti Whitehaven activists and if the they are charged and the courts give a slap on the wrist punishment, if any punishment at all. If this happens society will be telling Green activists that they approve of their activities and agree with their supremacist mind set. It will encourage the Greens to go further. Let’s hope the justice system does its job properly here, but I am not going to hold my breath.

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 5:44 am
Poor naive Michael Smith thinks the ATO might investigate Union slush funds – just like the ATO is vigorously pursuing Craig Thomson for all that undeclared income he got to spend.

At least Michael Smith has finally given up on his fantasy that the Police might enforce the law on the ALP – Union crime complex over the AWU slush fund.

Welcome to the real world Michael, where the police and other regulators vigorously enforce the law on minor mendicants if it is you or I, but turn a blind eye to the major indiscretions of the ruling ALP-Union criminal elite.

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 5:58 am
How are those police investigations into Craig Thomson going? I reckon we can get them to last for at least two years. My tip is that there will conveniently be no charges before the next Federal election.

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 5:59 am
Yep.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 6:17 am
I see from some comments above that “it’s time” for a re-reading of Tom Dusevic’s masterpiece about who’s up who in the Labor Party.
Slink

Blogstrop

10 Jan 13 at 6:41 am
Abu, from wiki

Regarding the allegations of child abuse, the evidence is less compelling.

There was a terrific documentary about Waco many years ago, although completely chilling. JC is completely right.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 6:52 am
Andrew Leigh, the Labor academic who argued that the ABC was too right wing, has finally jumped the shark.

The Oz must be finding it hard to get material at this time of year if it has to run such self serving drivel.

johno

10 Jan 13 at 6:56 am
Whoops. I see JC has already linked to this tripe.

johno

10 Jan 13 at 6:59 am
Really? How about when armed government troops went after David Koresch and his followers for no established reason they were a cult. It’s one of the worst examples of state over -reach in US modern history against what were essentially law abiding citizens.

Can you really be holding up a weirdo “pedo-banned-word” cult leader whose recalcitrance and whose totalitarian hold over his brainwashed followers contributed to the unnecessary deaths of men, women and children, not to mention law enforcement officers doing their job?

I actually knew one of the girls killed at Waco. A very nice girl, at 18 she was sucked into Koresh’s world. He was one sick bastard and she became one of his wives and had a kid . I would prefer it not to come up as an example of the need to protect the right to defence against the state, because as far as I am concerned he was a cancer.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 7:19 am
Completely right? Thanks for the advice.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 8:02 am
Though Andrew has previous been ok, after this statement last night he has a lot of work to prove he is not just a troll.

No you did it. Most of you, if not all, psychotically ranted on about these crazy hypotheticals. I provided evidence to the contrary of you and because it didn’t suit any of your arguments, you completely ignored them.

Until he addresses those points, his status has changed.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:02 am
When you think you’ve seen it all, lightweight Andrew Leigh is now an expert on the Liberal party.

The Labor tries that crap every few months. Same crap, different person.

I believe it was the extremely forgettable trade minister who released that clip that hit the Youtube hall of shame who wrote that article.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:20 am
Let’s see if Bob Carr is useful for doing anything more than handing millions to totalitarians so we can abstain on votes about Israel in the security council.

AN AUSTRALIAN man seized in Syria has been accused of interacting with a terrorist group by the Assad regime.

Mohammad Alkakouni’s family fear he may have been killed, as they have heard little about the Australian-Syrian national since he was captured more than six months ago.

Foreign Minister Bob Carr’s office has repeatedly tried to confirm the welfare of Mr Alkakouni, a father of three children who are now living in south-west Sydney.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:22 am
Completely right? Thanks for the advice.

Specifically he is completely right that it was a case of government over-reach.
not ‘completely right’ about everything.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 8:24 am
There’s more policy work than meets the eye going on inside the Coalition:

SENIOR Liberals are pushing for changes to electoral laws that they believe would damage Labor and the Greens at the ballot box.

Influential party figures want to move to optional preferential voting if they win this year’s election. They believe that if electors do not have to allocate preferences, old-school Labor true believers and many Greens supporters would simply put a “one” next to their preferred party, denying the other party the benefits of preference flows.

Those pushing the plan say Howard government ministers blundered by calling for voluntary voting. Instead, they say optional preferential voting would be easy to sell as a more democratic halfway house between the current arrangements and voluntary voting, with electors still compelled to cast a ballot but not forced to pass preferences on to candidates they may not support.

Opposition electoral affairs spokeswoman Bronwyn Bishop said she backed the move, calling it fairer than the compulsory preferential system, where voters are required to put a number next to every candidate to lodge a valid vote.

ABC elections analyst Antony Green said the Coalition “probably” would have won the last federal election under such a system.

But the push for optional preferential voting is likely to meet with fierce resistance from sections of the Nationals, with Senate leader Barnaby Joyce saying he supports the status quo.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 8:24 am
eddystone @ 2309

That may have been an armory issue in South Australia when Fort Glanville was activated when the Russian ‘scare’ was on in the early 1900s!!!

Mike of Marion

10 Jan 13 at 8:27 am
Compare and contrast the approaches to guns in the US.

1. Executive over-reach in action (of course the lefties who screamed about the Bush-Hitler remain silence):

We already knew this was coming, but that doesn’t make it any more welcome. Speaking at his meeting with “gun safety” advocates (talk about re-branding!) on Wednesday, Vice President Biden reiterated that the president can and will take executive action on what he deems to be good gun-control ideas after his task force’s oh-so-measured and inclusive talks with gun interests across the political spectrum.

2. Yet, a person who broke the existing crazily tough gun laws in DC seems to be getting a pass as he is part of the Brahma class:

Does the rule of law apply equally to all citizens, even when “the law is a ass,” to quote Charles Dickens? Or do celebrities get one form of justice for mindless laws they endorse while breaking them, while everyone else gets the tougher form? That question now rests with the District of Columbia’s Attorney General, who will have to decide what to do with NBC’s David Gregory for brandishing a high-capacity magazine on television:

PS: The producers of David Gregory’s show rang DC police and they told NBC that Gregory would not get a pass and must not break the law.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:33 am
The mad-dog Marxists look like they’re going to stage an all-or-nothing showdown before the election to introduce draconian restrictions on speech via a new Human Rights and Anti-Discrimination Bill:

THE architect of Labor’s draft national anti-discrimination laws has declared the debate about the proposed reforms has spawned a “vicious” campaign aimed at rolling back existing protections.

As the Coalition sharpens its stance to describe the laws as “some sort of ideological crusade to control what people can say”, Attorney-General Nicola Roxon insisted that the government was not trying to stop people talking about religious, political or other “topical” issues.

The exposure draft of the law has been criticised by media companies and retired NSW chief judge and ABC chairman Jim Spigelman on free speech grounds, as it would allow a discrimination claim over conduct that insulted or offended a person in relation to “protected attributes” including political opinion and religion.

An interfaith group likened the bill to a “a secular version of the Spanish inquisition”.

Writing in The Australian today, Ms Roxon says the exposure draft has prompted some “some very useful feedback, which the government will consider”.

“But others have used our call for feedback to launch a vicious campaign to roll back existing discrimination protections and to misrepresent the reach of current laws,” she says

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 8:34 am
Beattie won an election through optional preference voting by encouraging one nation voters not to direct preferences in country electorates that are normally safe national party seats. So despite the shallow thinking of these strategists, it wouldn’t only benefit the coalition.

So while I am in favour of optional preferences, and even the removal of the compulsory nature of voting, it is because I believe in people having the right to do what they want, not because I am deluded enough to think it could benefit the coalition.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 8:37 am
Looks like Matt Drudge read Mk50′s post about the couple he knew who met in Auschwitz.

More likely he was prompted to such a devistating headline by people he knows who had the same experience.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:49 am
So while I am in favour of optional preferences, and even the removal of the compulsory nature of voting, it is because I believe in people having the right to do what they want, not because I am deluded enough to think it could benefit the coalition.

I’m happy if the Coalition gets stung at some stage by this, as this is a matter of freedom and choice.

Labor will always spin these efforts and the Love & Hate Media will publish this spin verbatum as it saves lazy media time.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 8:54 am
I like optional preferential voting.

Apart from anything else, it eliminates the need to figure out how to number ballot papers where there are lots of candidates nobody has ever heard of. Remember the Senate ballot paper a while back where there were 64 candidates? Ballot paper like a dunny roll?

The great thing is, if it is implemented properly, people can still do strategic voting. For example, in the recent ACT elections I was able to vote for the top 3 Libs, then the top 3 Labs, and that was it. No chance whatsoever of any part of my vote going to the Greens. I should explain that we are subject to the ghastly Hare-Clarke system, which is why voting for Labor candidates was important as a way of keeping the Greens out.

johanna

10 Jan 13 at 8:59 am
Stuff like this happens when you have a children’s government setting the example in Canberra:

SAM Kekovich’s Facebook page appears to have been hijacked to promote a tofu burger on the eve of the launch of his annual Australia Day ”Lambassador” ad campaign.

”Accidentally picked up a tofu burger instead of a Lamb one and you know what? It didn’t taste too bad at all. In fact I reckon I could go another,” reads the post.

In an earlier interview, Kekovich said people forget what it means to be Australian on January 26 and made a particular reference to tofu.

”You do strange things like eating tofu and doing yoga for God’s sake. That is totally un-Australian. That’s the message I want to get out,” he said.

Sam’s Australia Day ad this year satiring the PC world has become a huge ptroduction number.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 9:02 am
Woops. satirising.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 9:04 am
Accidentally picked up a tofu burger instead of a Lamb one and you know what? It didn’t taste too bad at all. In fact I reckon I could go another,” reads the post.

Have you seen how many calouries are in the meat alternatives? They are always packed with sugar to get over the fact they are tasteless.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 9:06 am
I once went vego for a couple of years. But I began fantasising about sausage rolls. There’s a shop* in Barwon Heads (a.k.a. Pearl Bay) which has the best homemade sausage rolls on the planet. And I love lamb.

* spaminator doesn’t like the link to Peppercorn Foods – it’s in the main street, Hitchcock Ave.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 9:23 am
So … it’s an advertising agency … it’s a flagging six year old campaign …. it’s Sam Kekovich.

When you tell me Sam’s Lamb campaign has been hijacked by tofu terrorists I am smelling a mammal of a slightly different colour.

Leigh Lowe

10 Jan 13 at 9:36 am
The recession in the non-mining economy starts showing up in employment statistics:

AUSTRALIA’S supply of vacant jobs is dwindling, making it harder to find work than it has been in years. New results from the only comprehensive national survey of vacancies show they have slid 8 per cent in the past year, undoing most of the gains since the global financial crisis.

Australia had only 166,000 vacant jobs in November, down from 193,000 two years earlier. More than 600,000 Australians were looking for work.

The most dramatic slide has been in public sector vacancies. There were just 12,300 government or semi-government jobs on offer during November, down from 17,500 a year earlier. In the public service capital of Canberra, the Bureau of Statistics found just 800 vacant jobs, the least since the early years of the Howard government in 1998.

Recently elected state governments have also cut public service employment to long-term lows. There were just 3100 public vacancies in NSW – the fewest at that time of year since 1996. There were just 2900 in Victoria, the weakest since 2003 and just 2100 in Queensland, the weakest since 1999.

Queensland has 29 per cent fewer vacancies than it had a year ago and 65 per cent fewer public service vacancies.

The results suggest the public sector will be closed to many of the graduates who traditionally find work at the beginning of each year, forcing them into the private sector or pushing up unemployment.

Private sector vacancies have slid 9 per cent in the past year. The biggest slides are in tourism, where there are 9100 fewer jobs on offer, transport, down 6800 jobs, and mining and manufacturing, each with 2000 fewer vacancies. There are fewer manufacturing jobs on offer than at any time in the past decade.

Cue the frothing zombie hordes berating the non-Labor states for daring to try to live within their means.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 9:50 am
You know what is really fucking disturbing?

Googled that Mylie doll story. Went onto part of amazon.com I never knew existed. A recommended product was a Justin Bieber love doll.

Time I unplugged the ADSL connection and drank that bottle of wild turkey.

Damn my inquiring mind.

.

10 Jan 13 at 9:54 am
Morning all, I have a question regarding UCV.

If one were to adjust UCV by CPI (and I think there is more than one CPI?) how would it differ from market trends since say 2003 and if it did differ, would it matter?

Is UCV an asset for government that is part of their books against which a government can borrow money?

Many thanks.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 9:56 am
Justin Bieber love doll.

I thought it was only teeny boppers that liked him? Surely a girl of 18 (you would have to be of age to buy a sex doll?) would not be that sicko strange? Or is there another market out there?

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 9:58 am
Andrew is OK. He’s a Howardian on guns, is all.

Sad but there you have it.

Eleventy not really warranted.

Yes, I will remain that way until someone proves otherwise. That does not mean I want to continue on with last night’s tirade.

Though Andrew has previous been ok, after this statement last night he has a lot of work to prove he is not just a troll.

I will keep posting what I think about issues.

Andrew

10 Jan 13 at 10:01 am
There was a terrific documentary about Waco many years ago, although completely chilling. JC is completely right.

DD — was it The Rules of Engagement?

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 10:01 am
For what it’s worth, Chris Kenny has (finally) updated his blog.

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 10:03 am
Just noticed a Liberty Quote from Marcus Aurelius, “do every act in your life as if it was your last”.

Marcus was a rich aristocrat. Believe me, when I clean the toilet or do the dishes or mow the lawn, his maxim does not apply.

It reminds me of the admonition to ‘always wear clean underpants in case you are in an accident.’

Did Marcus have OCD? And why is this a Liberty Quote?

johanna

10 Jan 13 at 10:04 am
Surely a girl of 18 (you would have to be of age to buy a sex doll?) would not be that sicko strange?

Are you assuming dolls like that would not be popular in Paddington?

Token

10 Jan 13 at 10:06 am
Ooh you are naughty Token!

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 10:08 am
I will keep posting what I think about issues.

You can post what you like, but you can expect to be treated harshly when you have a teenage tanty when people challenge you with facts.

There are multiple postings people like Mk50, Dot and I made with documentary links which were not personal in nature which you dismissed with this pathetic little tanty.

No you did it. Most of you, if not all, psychotically ranted on about these crazy hypotheticals. I provided evidence to the contrary of you and because it didn’t suit any of your arguments, you completely ignored them.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 10:13 am
Andrew, could you please, at the very least, learn the difference between an actual instance and a hypothetical? Cheers.

dover_beach

10 Jan 13 at 10:14 am
Andrew, could you please, at the very least, learn the difference between an actual instance and a hypothetical? Cheers.

I understand the difference. I am not interested in getting involved in the back and forth of this topic again.

Andrew

10 Jan 13 at 10:18 am
A more human side of Wayne Swan.

Poor Old Rafe

10 Jan 13 at 10:19 am
Are you dodging me again, Andrew?

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:19 am
Justin Bieber love doll.

I thought it was only teeny boppers that liked him? Surely a girl of 18 (you would have to be of age to buy a sex doll?) would not be that sicko strange? Or is there another market out there?

Gay men who like twinks?

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 10:21 am
US unions are feral:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/09/chicago-teachers-union-president-on-the-rich-off-with-their-heads/

From the leader of the unfailing public servants who brought you 350,000 Chicago students abandoned for two weeks, comes this gem. Karen Lewis, president of the Chicago Teachers Union:

In the clip, recorded Dec. 2 during her keynote address of the Illinois Labor History Society’s Union Hall of Honor dinner and posted on YouTube Monday, Lewis noted that an earlier generation of labor leaders resolved their differences with the rich with a very straightforward mantra: “Off with their heads.”

“Do not think for a minute that the wealthy are ever going to allow you to legislate their riches away from them,” Lewis told the audience at the event. “However, we are in a moment where the wealth disparity in this country is very reminiscent of the robber baron ages. The labor leaders of that time, though, were ready to kill. They were. They were just — off with their heads. They were seriously talking about that.”

Lewis goes on to justify her murderous fantasy by claiming—what else?—those richies are just trying to kill her!

That’s scary to most people. But the key is, they think nothing about killing us. They think nothing about putting our people in harm’s way. They think nothing about lethal working conditions.

The most recent strike was about whether the district could evaluate teachers using student test scores (party an Obama initiative), the length of the school day, and whether the district would have to hire teachers from a pool of laid-off teachers or could search for applicants elsewhere. Heroes, every single one of them.

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:23 am
A great article at Hoover

It’s the Culture, Stupid

Why do some countries join the ranks of the most developed nations while others do not?

Token

10 Jan 13 at 10:27 am
I understand the difference. I am not interested in getting involved in the back and forth of this topic again.

Fair enough. When you have time read this neat summary of what the “Gun Control Reform” the Obama admin proposes.

So Joe Biden’s telling me that Lanza, overcome by his mental condition to the point that he’s murdered his mother and is headed to an elementary school on a killing spree, is going to stop 1,000 yards from the playground and think, “Hey — I don’t want Obama to take away my student loan subsidy. I better keep these guns away from school!”

These are the thoughtful, well-reasoned ideas from the Obama brain trust?

And we haven’t even mentioned the fact that gun laws are utterly meaningless to criminals, anyway. Don’t believe me? Ask the families of the 506 people fatally shot in Obama’s “gun-controlled” hometown of Chicago last year.

I’m not one of the knee-jerk pro-gun types who oppose all laws. I don’t think of gun ownership as the highest form of patriotism. Show me a law on law-abiding gun owners that will have a meaningful impact on gun violence, and I’m all ears.

But that’s not what the White House is offering. In the face of undeniable evidence that, for 20 years, gun ownership rates have gone up while gun deaths have plunged (the lowest since at least 1981, according to FactCheck.org), Obama’s pushing for a large-scale “punish-all-gun-owners” approach.

So much so that some Senate Democrats are already backing away from the task force’s work.

If the White House would stop playing on emotions for the sake of far-left politics, we could actually get something done about gun crime in the U.S.

Take some time to read through what we were trying to communicate to you yesterday and read the article, and you’ll see the similarities.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 10:31 am
Beattie won an election through optional preference voting by encouraging one nation voters not to direct preferences in country electorates that are normally safe national party seats

Optional preferential voting let alone non-compulsory voting will not ever be legislated under a Labor government. The rule of thumb is that if you are within the 2% margin in the 1st preference vote in OPV, you can still come from behind and win. Outside that you can’t.

Andrew

10 Jan 13 at 10:32 am
Jeff Kennett is speaking on 3AW. He is discussing privatisation of electricity and Nicola’s discrimination laws. The guy makes so much sense, we need him back!!!

Andrew

10 Jan 13 at 10:34 am
Johanna, the quote from M. Aurelius is part of a longer sentence (which itself continues from a preceding sentence wherein Aurelius counsels himself to act always as a Roman, and with justice):

ποριεῖς δέ, ἂν ὡς ἐσχάτην τοῦ βίου ἑκάστην πρᾶξιν ἐνεργῇς, ἀπηλλαγμένος πάσης εἰκαιότητος καὶ ἐμπαθοῦς ἀποστροφῆς ἀπὸ τοῦ αἱροῦντος λόγου καὶ ὑποκρίσεως καὶ φιλαυτίας καὶ δυσαρεστήσεως πρὸς τὰ συμμεμοιραμένα.

“And thou wilt give thyself relief, if thou doest every act of thy life as if it were the last, laying aside all carelessness and passionate aversion from the commands of reason, and all hypocrisy and self-love and discontent with the portion which has been given to thee.”
(M. Antonius Imperator Ad Se Ipsum, 2.5.)

Deadman

10 Jan 13 at 10:36 am
“It is an absolutely fascinating community, with extraordinary depths of knowledge and (I’d wager) a greater concentration of practical PhD’s and (even better) senior, experienced people (historians, datamoles, miners, silks, engineers, research scientists, politicians….) …”

Indeed

and in honour of the bits-and-bytes that bind the Cat Community, today’s first foot-atappin’ musical selection:

Because the friendship that you gave
Has taught me to be brave
No matter where I go I`ll never find a better prize

Though you’re miles and miles away
I see you every day I don’t have to try
I just close my eyes, I close my eyes

We’ll always be together
However far it seems
We’ll always be together
Together in Electric Dreams

Myrrdin Seren

10 Jan 13 at 10:37 am
And just night before last…

Man Uses Gun to Protect Two-Month Old Son from Armed Robber

Kelby Smith was in the driveway of his brother’s house when a man approached him, put a pistol to his head, and demanded money. While Mr. Smith handed him money he also drew his own weapon. The robber grabbed the money and ran.

But he turned around and pointed the gun at Mr. Smith and his baby. Mr. Smith quickly shot the robber while shielding his baby from the robber.

The robber continued to run, but was found at a nearby hospital. He is now under police guard while he recovers.

Mr. Smith does have a concealed carry permit. Authorities on the scene said they believe he was acting out of self-defense.

Wait, didn’t someone here claim that guns were useless for defence, because crims have guns too and if you were attacked you’d never be able to pull your own gun in time?

Oh that’s right, that was the same chucklehead who made the bald claim that

gun homicides in the US are far higher than anywhere else in the world

and refused to acknowledge his error.

Never mind.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 10:48 am
Marcus was a rich aristocrat. Believe me, when I clean the toilet or do the dishes or mow the lawn, his maxim does not apply.

Marcus Aurelius was a remarkable individual who live spartan Stoic existance and worked for most of his lifetime to save the Roman empire.

Marcus Aurelius acquired the reputation of a philosopher king within his lifetime, and the title would remain his after death; both Dio and the biographer call him “the philosopher”.[263] Christians—Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Melito—gave him the title too.[264] The last named went so far as to call Marcus “more philanthropic and philosophic” than Antoninus Pius and Hadrian, and set him against the persecuting emperors Domitian and Nero to make the contrast bolder.[265] “Alone of the emperors,” wrote the historian Herodian, “he gave proof of his learning not by mere words or knowledge of philosophical doctrines but by his blameless character and temperate way of life.”[266]

His biggest failing was his love for his deeply flawed son.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 10:48 am
Oh, and has anyone managed to teach young Andrew the difference between “hypotheticals” and “real examples” yet?

I know DD gave it the old college try, but wasn’t sure whether it had sunk in yet.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 10:49 am
Hello Abu

Many thanks for those suggestions on the other thread. I did check out Thunderbirds,they’re brilliant. However not to my liking; heavy metal blues to my ears. Still, they are clearly very very good. My preference is for the earlier, traditional styles, like Memphis Slim & Sonny Boy Williamson.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:51 am
Andrew you stated in the Friday open forum that

The statistics speak for themselves that the gun laws in ’96 worked.

I would like you to look at the numbers I got from the ABS website for another post in August 2012, relating to murders in Australia. Please look at the murders in 1993 (before the buy back) and 2011 (latest data available) and tell me again how the gun buy back made any difference what so ever to the rate of murder by gun in Australia post the gun buy back?

In the calendar year 1993 there were 290 murders.
59 by firearm 18%
124 by other weapon – including knife 43%.
90 no weapon used 31%.
17 weapon not specified 8%

In the calendar year 2011 there were 240 murders.
40 by firearm 17%
112 by other weapon – including knife 47%
63 no weapon 26%
25 not specified 10%

By simply looking at 1993 and 2011 you can quite easily see that there has been next to no change in the firearm related murder rate and only a marginal change upwards in the other weapon rate, offset by a marginal drop in those murders where no weapon was used. It is plain to see that the rate of gun murder in Australia has not been impacted by the gun laws change including the gun buy back in 1996.

When you state time and again that something has happened (the statistics show that the gun buy back worked) when plain evidence suggests otherwise, you will be openly derided and ridiculed.

Can you at least acknowledge that your argument based on a reduction of murders due to the gun buy back was wrong?

It is also worth noting that the data shows no information stating whether or not the firearm involved was legally or illegally obtained, that indeed would be a telling statistic, but I doubt the result if ever known would support your argument.

Old Fridgie

10 Jan 13 at 10:55 am
Baby sense on guns.

Keith

10 Jan 13 at 10:55 am
Can you really be holding up a weirdo “pedo-banned-word” cult leader whose recalcitrance and whose totalitarian hold over his brainwashed followers contributed to the unnecessary deaths of men, women and children, not to mention law enforcement officers doing their job?

Abu

There was absolutely no freaking evidence that Koresch was molesting kids. None. Zippo/ The security services made that shit up.

And yea, they were a weird cult, so what? By that standard the Green party should be attacked by the cops and everyone in the building killed. How about Greenpeace?

JC

10 Jan 13 at 10:58 am
Baby sense on guns.

And we could REALLY save a lot of lives by making murder illegal.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:04 am
Green filth fully responsible for Tasmanian township disasters.

Now, something else happened in Tasmania once and it caused John Howard to ban guns. Serious proposal: is it now time to make Green ideology illegal?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 am
non-compulsory voting

I detest the use of such words when we already have the use of ‘voluntary’ readily available.

dover_beach

10 Jan 13 at 11:14 am
Why oh why does it take a tragedy to wake people up to the obvious harm of green filth ideology? It is so obvious to normal thinking people.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:17 am
Now, something else happened in Tasmania once and it caused John Howard to ban guns. Serious proposal: is it now time to make Green ideology illegal?

When will they get serious on match & lighter control so we can do something about this scourge of summer fires?

Token

10 Jan 13 at 11:17 am
Thanks for feedback on Marcus Aurelius (of whom I already know quite a bit, having studied useless things like Latin and Ancient History.)

Context is everything, and Marcus was obviously talking about acts in public life, and possibly even public acts – like helping an old lady across the road.

But the quote as it stands is absurd.

johanna

10 Jan 13 at 11:18 am
Labor responds to optional preferential voting idea:

Liberal plan for voting changes would disenfranchise voters, says Labor.

LABOR MPs have slammed a new Coalition idea for optional preferential voting as an attempt by the conservative side of politics to disenfranchise voters and suppress democracy.

Notice how the Australian left now calls choice a “threat” or an attempt to take something (compulsion) away?

Now, prepare yourself for this second snippet:

Labor backbencher Andrew Leigh told compulsory preferential voting was a strongly democratic system and should not be changed.

“The conservatives have a long history of trying to suppress democracy,” he said. “John Howard shut up the rolls to prevent younger voters from getting on the rolls. The Queensland LNP is pushing for voluntary voting.

“This all seems part of a big pattern in which the left of politics wants everyone to have their say and the right of politics wants as few people as possible.”

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:18 am
I’m quite serious.

Green ideology has killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world and caused dozens of deaths in Australian bushfires.

Just as nazism is illegal in Europe, it’s time we considered making Greenism unlawful.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:20 am
“This all seems part of a big pattern in which the left of politics wants everyone to have their say and the right of politics wants as few people as possible.”

“This all seems part of a big pattern in which the left of politics wants everyone ~~to have their say~~ to be compelled by the State to do things against their will and the right of politics wants ~~as few people as possible~~ people to be free to choose.”

I’m firmly pro-choice when it comes to voting.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
Labor – ” It’s a swingers club with the occasional pedo thrown in.”

A legitimate description.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
It’s hilarious, union butterball complains about people being poor, but backs the raising of taxes that hurt the poor more severely.

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
Conceited know-all nobody from the failing Fairfax farce thinks he knows more about media than Rupert Murdoch, demands that he turn the Wall Street Journal into a paper leftwing fuckwits like him would enjoy:

No, says Murdoch, the problem lies with news content and how papers have conceived themselves. Newspapers have become unmoored from regular readers’ lives, hopelessly adrift in smugness, pretension and elitism. Newspapers have become too niche and too clever.

This is why The Wall Street Journal reads the way it does, and this is the cultural battleline Murdoch is so expensively and expansively manning. Our tycoon has a dream of newspapers knowing and providing precisely what its readers demand. But when Murdoch waxes philosophical, his ”reader” becomes purely notional, and it would be a brave, stupid or ego-sodden man that might determine what we all want from this public good.

Ignoring readers is folly, but follow the logic of an imagined consumer as the sole driver of news and you become entangled in speciousness. The Journal is providing less and less investigative journalism, precisely the kind that exposed the industrialised criminality of Britain’s tabloids.

As always, FXJ has opened this garbage to comments so the zombie Green children can spew their hatred on one of the four rotating Fairfax devils (Gina, AJ, TA and Murdoch). Talk about Play Skool.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 11:23 am
Green filth fully responsible for Tasmanian township disasters.

Don’t be stupid, CL. You could equally say that AGW skeptics preventing CO2 abatement are fully responsible, because the extra CO2 causes more plant growth. That would be equally stupid.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:25 am
Serious proposal: is it now time to make Green ideology illegal?

No. It’s simply time for the Coalition to put forward and defend an environmental policy that is orientated towards the common and human good. They also need to aggressively attack the energy and environmental platform of the Greens and ALP as abject failures that endanger the safety of the community and as economically deleterious.

dover_beach

10 Jan 13 at 11:26 am
You could equally say that AGW skeptics preventing CO2 abatement are fully responsible…

‘AGW’ ‘sceptics’ pushed for the banning of burn-backs, did they Mont?

Let’s have some links,

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:26 am
… The Journal is providing less and less investigative journalism, precisely the kind that exposed the industrialised criminality of Britain’s tabloids …

… but missed completely the sordid criminality of the BBC.

jupes

10 Jan 13 at 11:28 am
because the extra CO2 causes more plant growth

Then that should have been recognised by green filth and more prescriptive burning done.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 11:29 am
Joe Biden: President considering banning democracy.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:29 am
As the Tassie minister points out, 80% of affected land was privately owned. People insist on cutting out housing blocks out of the middle of virgin bushland without clearing it properly. My parents live in such a suburb in Perth that recently had bushfires roar through it.

It’s all very well to demand burnbacks on Crown land but if you refuse to do the same on your own property, you can’t really complain when your house burns down.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:30 am
As the Tassie minister points out, 80% of affected land was privately owned.

And of course being private land, it isn’t subject to Green regulations at all.

LOL.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:32 am
You could equally say that AGW skeptics preventing CO2 abatement are fully responsible, because the extra CO2 causes more plant growth. That would be equally stupid.

No you couldn’t. That would be like saying that an employer is equally to blame for a hoarder’s house fire because they provided the funds that financed the hoarding rather than the hoarder’s failure to properly care for their house and thus prevent a fire. The employer is neither partly to blame nor equally to blame.

dover_beach

10 Jan 13 at 11:34 am
without clearing it properly.

Please check council bylaws about ~~bush~~ hazard reduction the greenie ones wont let you do it – cause of many deaths in last big burn in Oz. People get fined by council for attempting hazard reduction.

We had big rains the last few years (predicted drought) rain grows grass – we have know this is coming and chose to do nothing or not enough about it. Shame on the greens.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 11:36 am
Conceited know-all nobody from the failing Fairfax farce thinks he knows more about media than Rupert Murdoch, demands that he turn the Wall Street Journal into a paper leftwing fuckwits like him would enjoy

The WSJ is the top-selling paper in the US again this year. The NYT is not even second but third.

Thus the leftard rage.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:36 am
Open comments on this article (“Job vacancies plunge”). Search for “457″.

Thank God we aren’t all suckers. How long until something is done?

Harold

10 Jan 13 at 11:37 am
Monty believes that private land owners can freely burn stuff.

Hey Mont, go down to your backyward and burn some lawn clippings and leaves and see what happens.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:38 am
Duelling bushfire experts: M0nty and Phil Cheney…

M0nty:blames it on Global Warming..

Dr Cheney: via Miranda Devine

“If I pulled my hair out any more I wouldn’t have any,” laments Phil Cheney, Australia’s foremost expert on bushfire behaviour, now retired from the CSIRO.

“It drives me to total frustration (that) governments are reluctant to spend money on preventative measures. They are great on helicopters flying around because it looks good. But they’re better off having a bit more smoke in the sky in autumn.”

Cheney says to manage fire you need a scientifically prescribed regimen of strategic light burns in cooler months.

That will reduce fuel loads which in turn reduces the power and intensity of bushfires. Cheney’s submission to the Victorian bushfires royal commission advocated strategic burning of 10 per cent of public land annually. The commission recommended an “annual rolling target of 5 per cent minimum of public land” – better than nothing.

Forester

10 Jan 13 at 11:44 am
Totally off any topic, but while scanning the TV guide for today, I found that ‘One Million Years BC’ (yep, the one with Raquel Welch in a fetching fur bikini) is on. Heard about it, but never seen it, so I went to imdb, and the most liked review was from this Aussie:

User Reviews
24 December 2001 | by Infofreak (Perth, Australia) – See all my reviews

“Watching 1970s TV screenings of ‘One Million Years BC’, the Connery Bond movies, the original ‘Planet Of The Apes’ and ‘The Omega Man’ made an enormous impact on my childhood that I don’t think I’ve ever truly recovered from! Looking at it now as an adult you can see how laughably stupid it all is, but you can’t help but still love it! The vision of Raquel Welch in her animal skin bikini nearly brought puberty on five years early for me. She’s still a sight to see but the charms of Martine Beswick (‘Dr Jekyll and Sister Hyde’, ‘A Bullet For The General’) are now more to my taste. She’s sensational!

The plot, such that it is, concerns Tumak (John Richardson of ‘She’), one of the “rock people” who look like spaghetti western refugees and like nothing better than grunting, wearing fur, and beating the crap out of each other. Tumak falls out with his old man and brother, is banished and after some aimless wandering around avoiding dinosaurs (and in one surreal moment a giant tarantula!), he stumbles across the hitherto unknown “shell people”. They are blonde surfer types who introduce him to such innovations as improved spears, hot water, painting, crying and feminism. And also to the babelicious Loana (Welch) who takes a shine to him. Tumak still has “attitude problems” and ends up getting banished from their tribe too, but with Loana and a new and improved spear what more can the guy want? Of course he heads straight back to his homies and yes, there’s trouble ahead including fraternal friction, a jealous ex (Nupondi, the stunning Beswick), lots of Harryhausen dinosaurs, and exploding volcanos. Does mindless entertainment get any better than this? Hardly ever. Add a cool score from Mario Nascimbene and what you have is a classic piece of unforgettably trashy exploitation.”
———————-

I wish Infofreak of Perth was writing current movie reviews. As well as being a superb writer and reviewer, he/she has a nice Australian take on things.

johanna

10 Jan 13 at 11:45 am
Isn’t it interesting, by the way, that the left is perfectly cool about Obama surpassing (banning) Congressional involvement in his plan to crack down on guns? Remember when lefties warned that Sarah Palin would ban abortion by some kind of executive fiat? They thought that would be the beginning of an American Reich.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:45 am
What’s with The Australian lately?

It’s turning into a Labor propaganda sheet.

Roxon and that idiot Leigh take up half the opinion page today. On Saturdays, Emerson has a regular spot to spout his nonsense, and I think there was another Labor pollie on then too.

I’d like to see critique of govt policy, not propaganda by the architects of it.

Eddystone

10 Jan 13 at 11:50 am
They’ve learned nothing from the Victorian fires:

ANGRY residents last night accused local authorities of contributing to the bushfire toll by failing to let residents chop down trees and clear up bushland that posed a fire risk.

During question time at a packed community meeting in Arthurs Creek on Melbourne’s northern fringe, Warwick Spooner — whose mother Marilyn and brother Damien perished along with their home in the Strathewen blaze — criticised the Nillumbik council for the limitations it placed on residents wanting the council’s help or permission to clean up around their properties in preparation for the bushfire season. “We’ve lost two people in my family because you dickheads won’t cut trees down,” he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/angry-survivors-blame-council-green-policy-20090211-83p0.html#ixzz2HWsGuuUe

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:51 am
My parents live in such a suburb in Perth that recently had bushfires roar through it.

They deserved it did they ? Nice.

A great deal of privately held NSW land is subject to conservation covenants that severely restrict the landowner in terms of land use and clearing of trees and undergrowth, to the extent that even dead trees can’t be touched. Another large proportion is subject to Carbon Sequestration orders, that similarly prevent land owners from clearing paddocks where seedlings might happen to spring up.

I wouldn’t be surprised if your parent’s land is subject to similar covenants and legislation, given CALMS track record.

Keith

10 Jan 13 at 11:52 am
Bob Brown effect? Rare whale washes up on shore in Qld Central Coast Conservationists deeply concerned re cause of death.

Like animals don’t die just becasue they get old?

like people don’t die in fores if they are not allowed to undertake hazard reductions?
Like old people don’t die if they have to turn off (or have them turned off) their air con in summer and their heaters in winter.

Damn, I forgot. People don’t matter.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 11:54 am
And of course being private land, it isn’t subject to Green regulations at all.

LOL.

There are a lot of Liberal-voting boomer/retirees who push for entire suburbs to be filled with bushfire fuel right next to their own houses, CL. NIMBYism is not equivalent to Greenism.

In my experience, it’s not the regulations that convince people, it’s the cadre of disapproving neighbours tut-tutting if you dare to cut down a tree. Many of whom are now Abbott supporters – my parents’ house is in the seat of Canning, which has been Liberal since 2001. Kinglake, major victim of Black Saturday under similar circumstances, is in Indi which has been Liberal since 1977.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:54 am
“We wanted trees cut down on the side of the road … and you can’t even cut the grass for God’s sake.”
Advertisement

Another resident said she had asked the council four times to tend to out-of-control growth on public land near her home, but her pleas had been ignored.

There was widespread applause when Nillumbik Mayor Bo Bendtsen said changes were likely to be made about the council’s policy surrounding native vegetation.

But his response was not good enough for Mr Spooner: “It’s too late now mate. We’ve lost families, we’ve lost people.”

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:56 am
Interesting how many Australian political issues are echoed in Canada:

The economic structure of the auto industry has changed forever. A few hundred millions in subsidies may purchase some votes for the governing party, but it cannot change the underlying reality.

The billions which the taxpayers of Canada pour into the bottomless pit of aboriginal affairs will not make real the dream of Turtle Island

Myrrdin Seren

10 Jan 13 at 12:01 pm
Nillumbik votes Liberal in the Federal election.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 12:05 pm
http://www.kinglakerangesnews.com.au/index.php?option=com_acajoom&act=mailing&task=view&listid=1&mailingid=78&Itemid=75

The amnesty period will commence 12 March and continue through to 28 March. After that time people will need a permit to burn in residential areas.

Mayor Peter Beales said while residents were encouraged to carry out controlled burning, it was important fires were no more than one metre diameter by one metre high.

“The wet summer has certainly provided ideal growing opportunities and the amnesty does give people the opportunity to burn off vegetation material such as tree limbs, cuttings and leaves,” Cr Beales said. “However landholders will still need a permit if they want to burn windrows. While we want people to keep their properties in a good condition and reduce fire risks into the future, it is important people do take care in burning off. We encourage people to work with their neighbours so that we do not get a series of calls regarding nuisance fires. Nuisance fires can be caused by too much smoke or the illegal burning of materials such as tyres. If these fires are reported our Local laws officers will attend and penalty notices can be issued.”

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 12:06 pm
Mr Incoll said that in 2003, green groups were pushing for changes to planning laws that included restrictions on the removal of vegetation, “and worse still, the requirement for planting vegetation around and almost over houses, as part of any planning permit to build a house in the shire of Nillumbik, so it gave the appearance from the outside of being a forest”.

In 2003, the Nillumbik Ratepayers Group asked Mr Incoll to assess the bushfire risk, and the proposed planning rules.

Council elections were looming, and planning was a major issue. “The green group carried the day in council and the rules came to pass,” he said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/council-ignored-fire-warning/story-e6frg6n6-1111118815461

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:08 pm
One meter by one meter does not allow a decent break to be burnt. And note, windrows are not allowed to be burnt. This after a substantial rain season. Tokenism.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 12:08 pm
Perhaps this “tree changer” thing explains in part why there is this rise of Lib-preferencing Green voters.

At the 2010 Federal Election only 20% of Greens voters preferenced the L-NP, but recent Morgan Polls have this figure closer to 40%.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 12:10 pm
m0nty, a few days ago someone here was talking about the devastating bushfires affecting Hobart in 1967.

I meant to comment at the time that those damn time travelling Greenies from the future sure stuffed up in the 1960′s, didn’t they?

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 12:10 pm
One meter by one meter does not allow a decent break to be burnt. And note, windrows are not allowed to be burnt. This after a substantial rain season. Tokenism.

You do understand why that regulation is in place though, don’t you Helen? Many large fires have started as smaller ones started for good reasons by inexperienced amateurs.

The aforementioned smoke often contains embers, which would spread the fire beyond nuisance level.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 12:12 pm
He said one of the commonsense rules was not having a tree within a tree height and a half from the house – about 50m.

“People had vegetation growing up in their eves. Vegetation clearance wasn’t observed. People didn’t understand the threat or believe the threat.”

Some areas had very strict controls about the removal of vegetation, “trees being the holy green icon”, he said. “Removal of trees is quite an effort in many municipalities and Nillumbik is one of them.”

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:13 pm
There are a lot of Liberal-voting boomer/retirees who push for entire suburbs to be filled with bushfire fuel right next to their own houses, CL. NIMBYism is not equivalent to Greenism.

McTernan’s latest talking points sheet says;
“just lie though your teeth”

Forester

10 Jan 13 at 12:13 pm
Nillumbik votes Liberal in the Federal election.

The figures you cite are for the 2007 election when McEwen was in Coalition hands. Now it’s a Labor held seat and your link is worthless.

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 12:15 pm
Labor backbencher Andrew Leigh told compulsory preferential voting was a strongly democratic system and should not be changed.

He’s such a light weight. I’m still waiting for him to make the taxpayer whole on that fraudulent crap propaganda he published suggesting the ABC is rightwing. The Libs should force him to pay it back. All of it with interest.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
Find me a better one then, CH.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
Look, Australia burns, always has, always will.
You can have lots of controlled little burns or big uncontrolled burns.
The Greens chose the later. Simple.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
m0nty, a few days ago someone here was talking about the devastating bushfires affecting Hobart in 1967.

I meant to comment at the time that those damn time travelling Greenies from the future sure stuffed up in the 1960′s, didn’t they?

Cl is right, the greenslime have killed literally thousands and thousands of people around the world. They should be Fisk Doctrined out of public life.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:18 pm
I once went vego for a couple of years

I’ve read some pretty sick shit on the Cat – two blokes were waxing lyrical about Delta Goodrem recently – but this takes the flaming cake.

This is an M rated site, mate. Keep that weirdness to your sick German chat rooms.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 12:18 pm
the late winter and early spring of 1966 had been wet over southeastern Tasmania, resulting in a large amount of vegetation growth by November. However, in November, Tasmania began its driest eight-month period since 1885, and by the end of January 1967 the luxuriant growth in the area had dried off. Though January was a cool month, hot weather began early in February, so that in the days leading up to 7 February 1967, several bush fires were burning uncontrolled in the areas concerned. Some of these fires had been deliberately lit for burning off, despite the extremely dry conditions at the time. Reports into the causes of the fire stated that only 22 of the 110 fires were started accidentally.

Shortly before midday on the 7th, a combination of extremely high temperatures, (the maximum was 39 °C (102°F), very low humidity and very strong winds from the northwest led to disaster.

Although this fire was by far the worst in loss of life and property in Tasmanian history, the meteorological conditions are common there. McArthur’s report [5] on the fire notes that ‘very similar conditions have occurred on three or four occasions during the past 70 years’.

People were trying to burn off, Steve, but the rain came at the end of winter, you cant burn when it is green and then it was summer. I believe Autumn is the appropriate time for cool burn in Tas.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 12:18 pm
And if anyone thinks that Green voters are most affected by bush fires, their dreamin.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:19 pm
Five days after the Victorian Black Saturday bushfires…

CONTROLLED burning would be declared a key national threat to biodiversity under a new proposal before government that has been slammed as dangerous to life and property.

While Environment Minister Peter Garrett yesterday gave Victoria carte blanche to do all it needed to control its deadly bushfires, without review by federal environment laws, it emerged he will be asked next year to decide whether prescribed burning to reduce fuel loads puts plants and animals at risk.

A Department of Environment spokeswoman confirmed yesterday it had received a public submission to list controlled burning as a “key threatening process” – the same category that applies to climate change, land clearing and feral cats, pigs and foxes.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:22 pm
Perhaps the firefighting equipment wasn’t as advanced in the 1960′s as it is now, with all the technological coordination as well.

candy

10 Jan 13 at 12:22 pm
Monty, So, your parents were the victim of that dude with the angle grinder in his driveway starting a grass fire?

Many years ago a friend bought land up that way and we spent a week clearing a fire break around the property, as was the law at the time. Why did this sort of practice cease?

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 12:23 pm
Tom: I once went vego for a couple of years

IT: I’ve read some pretty sick shit on the Cat – two blokes were waxing lyrical about Delta Goodrem recently – but this takes the flaming cake.

This is an M rated site, mate. Keep that weirdness to your sick German chat rooms.

ROTFL. Yes, when I read Tom earlier I was pretty disgusted as well, but I never could have put it so eloquently. IT, you are absolutely priceless.

dover_beach

10 Jan 13 at 12:24 pm
Find me a better one then, CH.

It’s a bit rich after I expose your blatant misrepresentation for you then to demand I do your scut work. Go hug a tree.

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 12:24 pm
Oh I understand, Monty, that a one meter break will not stop a crown fire as a drop of piss in the wind will not stop a crown fire.

A one meter break will not even stop a grass fire. I have seen grass fires moving at speed like molten lava flowing across the ground, so what I am saying is that a one meter fire is tokenism.

Then the smoke, let me see, have annoying smoky air for two weeks or die?

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 12:24 pm
Leave Tom alone. It was just an experiment, possibly due to the influence of a green female? Anyway, he’s seen the error of his ways and has repented.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:26 pm
New Government-approved Macquarie Dictionary definition of ‘controlled burning’:

“no more than one metre diameter by one metre high.”

Forester

10 Jan 13 at 12:28 pm
I once went vego for a couple of years

Caught my son using moisturiser on his face just last week.
One of those moments in life that make you reflect.
What an effeminate society we have become…

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:28 pm
possibly due to the influence of a green female

Yes guys will do anything for free love with a hippy chick.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 12:29 pm
I meant to comment at the time that those damn time travelling ~~Greenies~~ warmenings from the future sure stuffed up in the 1960′s, didn’t they?

Fixed.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:33 pm
Caught my son using moisturiser on his face just last week.
One of those moments in life that make you reflect.
What an effeminate society we have become…

He may have dry skin. Cut him some slack.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 12:33 pm
Brendan O’Neill flits through the preaching and prophecy of the Netherworld of the Green Druids, so you don’t have to:

…not only is Monbiot implying that people’s beliefs (which are different to his!) and aspirations (for more comfort and wealth) have brought about punishing weather – he is also effectively dragooning the weather to his cause of demonising progress and growth, using natural events as a kind of moral blackmail to say: “Live more meekly or else the fires will keep burning.”

Myrrdin Seren

10 Jan 13 at 12:34 pm
Does anyone else here think that One Direction are excellent? Anyone?

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 12:34 pm
He may have dry skin. Cut him some slack.

Dude!

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:35 pm
Caught my son using moisturiser on his face just last week.

G’day, Mr Tiger.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:36 pm
Does he have a greenie girlfriend, Jump?

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 12:36 pm
He may have dry skin. Cut him some slack.

He had sunburn from a days fishing with me.
He did really well too, fish of the day and did all the filleting.
His man stocks were going through the roof….. and then…that.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:39 pm
candy, great point, probably a good reason among many as to why, but wasted on shitfer. just belittle him, its all he’s worth.

harrys on the boat

10 Jan 13 at 12:40 pm
Serious proposal: is it now time to make Green ideology illegal?

Menzies tried that in 1951. It failed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_referendum,_1951

Andrew

10 Jan 13 at 12:41 pm
Ezra Klein: ‘Biden sure is presidential material.’

He was named top cop on the stimulus — “Nobody messes with Joe,” Obama grinned when appointing him — and the funds were spent on time and shockingly free of graft and fraud…

Biden is one of the most successful vice presidents in history, and one of the most successful politicians of a very difficult era. He may sometimes make himself a punch line, but he has the record of a heavyweight.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:41 pm
Dan, thankfully my parents’ house wasnt one of the hundred burnt that day. The bloke with the angle grinder was a cop too, what an idiot.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 12:42 pm
Jump

That’s a little different. You didn’t mention the kid face was burning up into cinder. You need to give us complete information before we can comment and offer advice.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:43 pm
i have found a failsafe method of turning young girls away from little girlie boy bands. I have handed down my unused ipod to my 8 yr old.

Now she walks around singing stuff like “He made it out..with a bullet in his back..” or better still “we eat, we shit, we die”.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 12:45 pm
Ezra Klein: ‘Biden sure is presidential material.’

Why bother reading that moron, CL? Klein is a foaming at the mouth leftist twat and always has been.

He isn’t worth one carbon credit.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:45 pm
this takes the flaming cake.

Yep, I’ve done one of everything in my life.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 12:46 pm
Does he have a greenie girlfriend, Jump?

No, he’s between girlfriends ATM.
Lately Iv’e been introduced to girls called ” Friend with benefits” no1 and 2, and a lovely dippy one called ” fallback option “.
( don’t tell Mrs Jump, shhh )

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:47 pm
According to this a resignation by Peter Slipper could well be on the cards
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/slipper-risks-losing-157000-a-year-over-fraud-claims-20130109-2cgui.html

Which may mean a by-election in March. Will Brough appear in public by himself or will have James Ashby on his arm?

Grey

10 Jan 13 at 12:50 pm
Did anyone laugh at the fact it had to be specified that the moisturiser was used on the face?

Jump obviously knew that without that clarification we’d have assumed his lad had stumbled across one of dads “rhythm” magazines……….

harrys on the boat

10 Jan 13 at 12:50 pm
JC

That’s a little different. You didn’t mention the kid face was burning up into cinder. You need to give us complete information before we can comment and offer advice.

NO, he’s 21 years old.
He takes preventative action or harden the fuck up.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:51 pm
Which may mean a by-election in March. Will Brough appear in public by himself or will have James Ashby on his arm?

Dunno Greys, you spite filled turd. Seeing you know so, so much stuff.. you reckon Creeper Thompson will announce his candidacy with a couple of hookers hanging on both arms paid for with his parliamentary expense kitty?

JC

10 Jan 13 at 12:52 pm
Harry
Yes, I read the preview and edited.
Ya gotta be careful round here.
Just ask M0nty.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 12:54 pm
The former speaker, Peter Slipper, risks losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in retirement benefits if he is convicted of using his government Cabcharge card to tour restaurants and wineries.

When he retires, Mr Slipper can expect a yearly pension of about $157,000 for the rest of his life. But if found guilty of the alleged fraud, he is likely to lose everything besides a refund of his superannuation contributions (without interest).

Mr Slipper’s retirement package is especially lucrative because of his long service – 23 years as an MP – and his occupation of highly paid roles, including Speaker of the House of Representatives, where he earned an annual salary of $371,463.

The threat to his entitlements gives him an incentive to resign before he faces court next month, if he fears a guilty verdict and wants to protect his pension.

Wow. That’s a big incentive to bail.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:57 pm
Jump,
Same issue here, my 21 yo won’t pick up dog shit with a plastic bag. Taken him 3 weeks to paint his room as well, and the did a crap job so i had to sand it back properly over Christmas.

Probably my fault though as I spoil him rotten.

Woolfe

10 Jan 13 at 12:57 pm
Hey Pickles,

How do you explain these lyrics to a young girl?

‘he’d seen his lady being fooled with by another man, she was down, he was up, he had a gun in his hand’

Do you tell them it was all in the name of liberty?

Love the old Bon Scott ACDC!

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 12:58 pm
Warmening latest: GLOBAL WARMING IS HITLER.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 12:59 pm
Seeing you know so, so much stuff.. you reckon Creeper Thompson will announce his candidacy with a couple of hookers hanging on both arms paid for with his parliamentary expense kitty?

I doubt if he will run as an independent, so it will depend on if he retains the pre-selection for Dobell. The ALP seem to be holding it open for him, but he will need to clear himself in his up-coming trial.

He does seem to have a peculiar genius for putting forward unconvincing defenses. Hopefully he is now beginning to learn about the dangers of the Truce of the Bear
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/truce_of_bear.html

Grey

10 Jan 13 at 1:00 pm
I thought Slippery was already paying back $20,000 from ‘inaccuracies’ in his expenses.

The Libs should really have ditched him sooner. He’s just a big time moocher, and it reflects badly on both parties.

candy

10 Jan 13 at 1:00 pm
Does anyone else here think that One Direction are excellent? Anyone?

No thank you IT.

The government created The Drum for a reason you know.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 1:01 pm
NO, he’s 21 years old.
He takes preventative action or harden the fuck up.

You mean like sun block? Well that’s a cream too.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:01 pm
Greys, I wasn’t expecting a detailed anal(ysis) if Creeper Thompson runs again. It was sarc.

Shut up and go away as you’re really boring.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:04 pm
I’ve read some pretty sick shit on the Cat – two blokes were waxing lyrical about Delta Goodrem recently

Oi, IT! I resemble that comment. As one of those two perceptive tantent spotters I have to say that musical tastes should be eclectic and inclusive of even Delta Goodrem (but I did suggest there was a moment of temporary insanity at the time).

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 1:05 pm
The threat to his entitlements gives him an incentive to resign before he faces court next month, if he fears a guilty verdict and wants to protect his pension.

The rational move would be to bail. $150k a year for life for no further effort is a very strong incentive.

His name is mud anyway. Even if you give him a 90% chance of winning the case, the smart move is to bail anyway. There is nothing financially to be gained from winning the case, but there is a lot to lose. He will not retain the seat whenever the next election is. The case goes ahead either way. His fate is sealed, it’s just a case of at what point he departs and how much he takes with him.

brc

10 Jan 13 at 1:06 pm
I just skate over it John and most lyrics are tricky without the writtens. The Smack Song was very difficult to explain. “It’s Rusty Crow’s first movie”, I said. The Goons are easy though. She loves The Red Fort.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 1:09 pm
Woolfe
Mine is a big fucker, plays union ( don’t know positions) and league in 2nd row or centre.
When I played the dressing shed smelt of sweat and liniment, now day it’s more like a deodorant factory exploded.
He’s wise in that he rarely drinks and lots of lady friends.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 1:12 pm
Article on Orca & Narwhal the software behind Obama’s election:

via slashdot (http://s.tt/1ycFp)

The Future
The campaign’s software builders also believe their type of work will become more prevalent in politics as time goes on. “You look at the more revolutionary stuff we did, registering people to vote through Facebook and so on,” Kunesh said. “That’s only going to increase.”

Obama for America’s success with those software tools may also convince future campaigns to embrace similar initiatives. However, presidential candidates in 2016 won’t have some of Obama’s advantages. With no primary challenger, and an extensive network of donors, the campaign had the cash and time to focus on building out its backend infrastructure.

Four years from now, a whole new round of presidential startups will emerge, doing their best to transform data into votes. Decades ago, campaigns elected their candidates to the Oval Office with what we’d consider a bare minimum of technology: voter rolls printed on paper, banks of telephones for volunteers. In 2016, apps and advanced analytics could prove the key to victory.

Forester

10 Jan 13 at 1:13 pm
You mean like sun block? Well that’s a cream too.

I mean a decent hat and not a cap on arse about face.
JC, I thought you of all people would understand.
But then again you have a daughter and I have three sons, so maybe I’m wrong.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 1:19 pm
The Present:

Staff from the big IT firms “donated” a lot of time to assist Obama to get re-elected. Why would that be???

Last year, supposedly acting on a rather bizarre declaration by the United Nations that high-speed Internet access is a basic human right, the White House unveiled an initiative last November to invest more than $400 million to expand broadband Internet access to poor, rural areas of the country. Google’s benefit? More people logged onto the World Wide Web and, in turn, more people used its search engine.

The final item on the Google-Obama cronyism list illustrates the corporate favoritism that large Obama donors tend to inherit. Last year, Google acquired ITA Software — a company that builds online flight information software for travel websites — which stirred a wave of protests from the travel industry, as critics argued that enhancements in Google’s search engine would translate into the mass extinction of hundreds of travel-related websites. Critics charged that a monopoly was being created. Furthermore, Google recently purchased Motorola for $12.5 billion, which supplied Google with thousands of patents that would help deflect infringement lawsuits.

Ironically, while the politicized Department of Justice turned a blind eye to Google’s controversial buyouts, it filed an antitrust lawsuit against AT&T — which, note, is largely bipartisan in its political donations — to block its buyout of T-Mobile, arguing that the measure would severely hurt competition. One can only wonder: Would AT&T have been treated differently if it would have been more liberal with its donations to Obama?

Token

10 Jan 13 at 1:20 pm
DD — was it The Rules of Engagement?

sdog- I think so.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 1:23 pm
‘tantent’ should be ‘talent’ … heh.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 1:25 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil… here

Grigory Potemkin

10 Jan 13 at 1:28 pm
DD — was it The Rules of Engagement?

sdog- I think so.

The Waco thing was responsible for me turning libertarian while living there.

The ATF are truly an evil organization and resemble the Nazi Brownshirts in lots of ways.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 1:36 pm
As the saying goes, ATF should be a store, not a branch of government.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 1:38 pm
Johanna

I wonder how Christians of the time rated Marcus Aurelius as a paragon of liberty?

linecall

10 Jan 13 at 1:38 pm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-10/hoaxer-defiant-despite-facing-up-to-10-years-jail/4459208

Their ABC explains:

“In a piece of misfortune for the activist, the maximum fine for making false statements with respect to financial products was increased more than 20-fold in 2010 by the Federal Government, as part of an attempt to increase deterrence for what can be highly lucrative crimes.

The fine is now 4,500 penalty units, and in a further piece of bad luck for Mr Moylan, the value of a penalty unit was raised from $110 to $170, effective from December 28 last year.

To keep the jail terms in line with the financial penalties, the maximum prison sentence for the offence was doubled in 2010.

In increasing the maximum penalties, the Federal Government’s focus was on ensuring the gain from engaging in market misconduct did not outweigh the potential penalties.”

Yep, it was a “piece of misfortune” that sees him facing these penalties. If only he had done it before the law changed, he would be much better off, poor thing.

I know the ABC is right down in the gutter these days, but describing an alleged criminal as a victim of misfortune because the penalties have gone up recently – ‘quality journalism’ rides again.

johanna

10 Jan 13 at 2:07 pm
Reno and the ATF bosses should have been tried for mass murder. In American terms, they were candidates for the electric chair.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 2:08 pm
The ATF, DEA, FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS – it’s an alphabet soup of fascism over there.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 2:12 pm
Yep, it was a “piece of misfortune” that sees him facing these penalties. If only he had done it before the law changed, he would be much better off, poor thing.

I can see what Andrew Leigh was talking about when he complained the ABC is too right wing ;sarc off;

Token

10 Jan 13 at 2:14 pm
In a piece of misfortune for the activist…

The unsupervised activist who wrote that would have had his/her arse kicked in a real newsroom. The ABC must be sold.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 2:17 pm
The fine is now 4,500 penalty units, and in a further piece of bad luck for Mr Moylan, the value of a penalty unit was raised from $110 to $170, effective from December 28 last year.

I’ve often thought that the ONLY measure of inflation should be penalty units, because its one of the few things governments can’t fudge and they are incentivated to keep the value up to date.

Tel

10 Jan 13 at 2:19 pm
The ATF, DEA, FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS

FDA, IRS, TSA… quite a sick place.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 2:20 pm
Brilliant technology:

McDonald’s is rolling out a state-of-the art security system across Australia that douses fleeing robbers with an invisible, synthetic DNA spray in attempt to stop criminals seeing their fast food restaurants as a soft target.

The move comes as police ramp up their patrols of local McDonald’s restaurants after a spate of robberies across Sydney during the Christmas and New Year period.

A McDonald’s spokeswoman said the company will increase the use of ‘SelectaDNA’ in stores all over the country after a successful trial in their six busiest Sydney restaurants was launched in January last year.

According to the SelectaDNA website, spray heads are fitted at the entry points of premises which, on activation, emit a burst of solution onto the offenders. The solution contains a UV tracer which is invisible to the naked eye but will show up under UV light. It also has a unique DNA code, linking the thieves to the specific crime scene in question.

“It’s a great deterrent,” the McDonald’s spokeswoman said. “During the trial the restaurants experienced zero robberies and reduced instances of anti-social behaviour.

Tom

10 Jan 13 at 2:47 pm
The Waco thing was responsible for me turning libertarian while living there.

That explains a lot.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 2:54 pm
People insist on cutting out housing blocks out of the middle of virgin bushland without clearing it properly. My parents live in such a suburb in Perth that recently had bushfires roar through it.

Blame the Greens.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_did_green_faith_turn_a_fire_into_an_inferno/

But it also includes the new green movement, which before Black Saturday had grown so strong in the politics of the councils in our most fire-prone areas that Nillumbik Shire even fined people for clearing trees from their homes or for removing dead wood.

Indeed, counsel assisting the royal commission, Jack Rush, QC, this week suggested that since 1981 no fuel reduction burns had been done within 3km to 5km of Kinglake, where 42 people died last year.

Or consider Mitchell Shire Council, which before Black Saturday forced one ratepayer to pay $100,000 in fines and costs for clearing his own fire break.

Or the Shire of Yarra Ranges, which back then openly said it had “not undertaken prescribed burning on public land under its control for a number of years” because of “liability issues” and a lack of staff, but then tut-tutted that these burns were no magic bullet, anyway, and we should worry about “interfering with this natural regime”.

But if the green movement was strong in local councils, it was near-paralysing in the Labor Government.

.

10 Jan 13 at 3:00 pm
The Waco thing was responsible for me turning libertarian while living there.

That explains a lot.

Go on monty, explain why Waco was a success that made Clinton and Reno loved by the American public.

.

10 Jan 13 at 3:07 pm
Pressure keeps cancer in check
Physically confining malignant cells prevents runaway growth

Interesting idea. Pauling argued that Vit C helped with cancer because it promoted collagen production which binds around the tumour. No clinical application for the confinement idea but it does raise questions about quorum sensing(cell to cell communication) and preventing metastasis by promoting cell adhesion molecules.

The Vit C thing by Pauling was wrong but some studies do suggest high iv injections of C (2000-3000mg) does impact on some tumours. Probably because at those concentrations Vit C is a vicious oxidant, particularly if there is lots of free iron floating about.

Watson, the DNA man, is about to publish a paper on a new hypothesis for cancer, in Open Biology from the Royal Society. From what I read in the news release though he doesn’t seem to be saying anything new but I’ll have to try and get hold of the paper. Paul Davies, the physicist, led a team that came up with another novel hypothesis on cancer but that hasn’t caught on yet. I’ve read that paper, can’t see what they are on about so perhaps I missed something … .

To their credit they are exploring many unusual avenues.

John H.

10 Jan 13 at 3:13 pm
So Monty agrees that the Waco wackos deserved to be incinerated to death by the government.

Is that right?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 3:21 pm
Blame the Greens.

I have no problem with regulations limiting uncontrolled burn-offs on private property, as there is great danger with allowing amateurs to start fires that can spread easily. That’s not Greenism, that’s just common sense.

It’s important to distinguish between conservative NIMBY and leftist Green party complaints. Why do you think greens are much more prevalent in local councils? Not because there’s a huge groundswell of support for the green movement, it’s because there’s a strong NIMBY element in a lot of people – Liberal voters included – and the local level is where the rubber meets the road (or doesn’t, as the case may be). Green councillors are “conservative”, effectively, in the sense that they apply their conservation agenda to halt the “progressive” changes of their local environment.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 3:22 pm
Seems the Left in the US really don’t have any alerts to warn them when they have gone too far.

On Tuesday, the website Gawker sparked controversy when it published a 446-page list of all the licensed gun owners in New York City, initially labeling them “a**holes.” And on Wednesday, Fox News’ “The Five” turned the tables and aired the website founder’s phone number and email in retaliation.

Co-host Greg Gutfield began by saying the “left” wants the public to think that anyone who owns a gun is crazy, but that is simply not the case. He said no one wants guns in the hands of crazy people.

Note, the left seem to believe that a person convicted of crime have more rights to privacy than owners of guns which are licenced!!!

You can bet that like last time the names and addresses of all server law officers will be on that list.

“[Gawker called] people crazy a-holes who own guns legally in New York City. So what we thought we would do is maybe point out who runs Gawker, the founder of Gawker, Nick Denton. Greg, you may know him as well,” co-host Eric Bolling chimed in.

Then Denton’s name, picture, phone number and email address appeared on the screen. “There he is. Nick Denton. Here is is phone number,” Bolling said, advising viewers to email him if “you’re really ticked off.”

“You know what, Nick, I’m going to call you later on today,” he added.

Token

10 Jan 13 at 3:24 pm
Good lad monty.

Andrew, are you dodging me again?

Do I need to bait you with another Keating! insult?

.

10 Jan 13 at 3:25 pm
Go on monty, explain why Waco was a success that made Clinton and Reno loved by the American public.

Go on Dot, explain why David Koresh was a successful leader who made libertarianism loved by JC.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 3:27 pm
There is no question, by the by, that Nick Denton is an a-hole. He’d cheerfully cop to that himself.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 3:29 pm
Monty, your 3.22 is actually a good argument.

See, you can do it.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 3:29 pm
This is just horrific. Two Russian men on a joy-ride inside a giant rubber ball roll off ski-slope and off a cliff. One dead.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 3:33 pm
CL, I am suitably horrified and will try to do more poorly in future.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 3:43 pm
I have no problem with regulations limiting uncontrolled burn-offs on private property, as there is great danger with allowing amateurs to start fires that can spread easily. That’s not Greenism, that’s just common sense.

The dude who was fined 100k actually cut trees down, he didn’t burn off.

.

10 Jan 13 at 3:46 pm
Sensible?

Grand-dad took these phone-snaps and sent them to the children’s mother – who was at a funeral at the time. Why would he do that?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 3:59 pm
Two Russian men on a joy-ride inside a giant rubber ball roll off ski-slope and off a cliff.

Paging Nicola Roxon – call your office.

Myrrdin Seren

10 Jan 13 at 4:12 pm
Why would he do that?

Proof of life?
I know it would make much better sense to just text “we’re Ok, seeking refuge from fires at the jetty” but a snapshot is much faster than text and if she was at a funeral with phone turned off, he couldn’t call.

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 4:17 pm
The Very Best of the Eagles is this afternoon’s music (Hotel California now playing) – purchased in the UK a few years ago for £6.87.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 4:22 pm
Specifically he is completely right that it was a case of government over-reach.
not ‘completely right’ about everything.

I’d agree there was a bit of both. Government heavy handedness, sure. But at the end of the day the one person who should have blinked didn’t, and the deaths are on him.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 4:24 pm
Sensible?

Living next to a body of water with a bunch of kids and only one of them can swim?

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 4:36 pm
Waco was a clusterfuck by Reno, no doubt. But using Koresh as a paragon of virtue to make a case for gun ownership is retarded.

Koresh entirely fits the profile of the kind of kook that normally would be excoriated by Cats. To make him your poster boy is lunacy. Who next, Chavez for democracy?

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 4:43 pm
Uncle Joe

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 4:46 pm
Abu

Koresh was a nutball, but he and his cult broke no laws. He is a perfect example why the state cannot always be trusted if you think about it.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 4:48 pm
Leftards make me laugh

@ rog, a related point. Posters, on sites like catallaxy, should be held accountable for aiding and abetting dangerous safety outcomes, that arise from their publication of safety misinformation.
I think it is only a matter of time before lawsuits are brought, at an individual level, against people who knowingly and deliberately post information that leads to dangerous safety outcomes, particularly in relation to climate change.

Tiny Dancer

10 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
Uncle Dave

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
but he and his cult broke no laws.

There were serious allegations of child abuse.

Sinclair Davidson

10 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
There were serious allegations of child abuse.

Most of them propagated by the whackjobs in the ATF who wanted a shoot out.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 4:51 pm
Abu

… as I mentioned earlier..

If being strange and having cultish beliefs is the standard the Australian Greens, Greenpeace and other assorted nutcases should have been attacked ages ago.

Tubbsie Milne and Mad dog Bob should be in solitary.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 4:51 pm
Uncle Doc. Has a headache.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 4:52 pm
Sinc

It was made up bullshit by the ATF and the FBI after they had died.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 4:53 pm
From Dots link to Bolt.

A commentor there refers to a submission by Natalie Woodley (click on ‘W’) to the Black Saturday Royal Commission. A former councillor of Nillumbik Shire

The submissions talk about the Shire of Nillumbik being over run by The Green Wedge and the downward spiral.

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 4:54 pm
Uncle Lurch. Great montage.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 4:55 pm
JC, check out the Berg thread.

Koresh, according to former cult members, was a pedo. Perhaps that was unable to be corroborated because his child brides died in the conflagration and couldn’t be interviewed? Whatever, they died because he didn’t blink. He is not a good poster boy for the right to own automatic weapons.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 4:56 pm
Nigella looking YUMMY.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 4:58 pm
Pickles,

What can I say but … IMPECCABLE TASTE

Joe Walsh is excellent. We went to the Eagles live show in Sydney a couple of yaers ago. Great night.

David Gilmour, fantastic guitar player. I have his DVD ‘Remember That Night – David Gilmour Live At The Royal Albert Hall’. It’s time I watched it again … maybe tonight after dinner.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 5:00 pm
I don’t really get the blink reference, Abu.

What, in a siege situation you incinerate everyone and call it a day?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 5:00 pm
Michael Smith wonders whether this will go anywhere…

I can confirm that the Federal Opposition is looking closely at the provisions of our law that relate to aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an indictable offence and at Christine MILNE and Lee RHIANNON’s comments.

The Opposition had sought legal advice about Milne’s and Rhiannon’s recent comments and statements regarding the Jonathon MOYLAN matter.

My source confirmed it to me this morning.

Still nothing from the Labor Pardee on Moylan’s criminal activities. As Robert Bolt so eloquently reminds us in A Man for All Seasons,

The maxim is “Qui tacet consentiret”: the maxim of the law is “Silence gives consent”.

Thus we can conclude that TLS and her cohorts condone fraudulently deceiving the Stock Exchange in the service of a greater good.

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 5:02 pm
Go on Dot, explain why David Koresh was a successful leader who made libertarianism loved by JC.

Fat Boy, stop trying to jerk someone’s chain, you dishonest slime ball.

I never said anything about Koresh’s leadership qualities and expressly described him and his cult as weird.

However being weird is not a reason for the ATF or the FBI to have gone after the group the way they did. They had not broken any laws.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 5:02 pm
I can confirm that the Federal Opposition is looking closely at the provisions of our law that relate to aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an indictable offence and at Christine MILNE and Lee RHIANNON’s comments.

If true, the Opposition won’t have my support.

We’ve got enough dickheads running around trying to punish people for their “comments” as it is, thanks.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 5:04 pm
Reno fucked it up. But Koresh should have backed down.

That would have been the rational play.

In other news, thanks for the Nigella pR0n. I saw a sidebar at that page for another cuddly lady, since I know you prefer the ones that are pneumatic.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:04 pm
Abu

I read the claim about child brides etc. The ATF and the FBI made those accusations after the incident.

Around that time there was also a famous case of a father and son being attacked by the ATF on their rural land for some pathetic reasons. I can’t recall the names but will try to find it.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 5:07 pm
Bushfire power is measured in kilowatts (kW)of energy generated for each metre of fire line at the head of the fire. OnekWisaboutthepowerorenergyof a small electric bar radiator some people use in their homes.
When it comes to savage bushfires such as those in Victoria, we are talking about awesome amounts of energy in terms of kilowatts. In essence, these bushfires convert 25 or more years of solar energy stored in the vegetation to heat energy in a 30 to 40 second burst in the flaming zone. That is a huge amount of ‘sunshine’ and temperatures in a bushfire can exceed 1200°C.

intensities of the Victorian fires at their peak were probabIy in the order of 100,000 kW per metre of headfire – or 100,000 kiloJoules of heat energy released every second.
Multiply this by the total length of headfire (up to 100 km) and you can see that we are talking about a massively powerful phenomenon – one that is highly destructive and unstoppable at its peak.
Suppressing fires using aircraft, bulldozers and fire trucks fails once the fire intensity exceeds just 2500 kW. No technology or equipment can stop these fires when they blow up.

Dr Neil Burrows – Director of Science with the Department of Envimnment and Conservation in Wesfem Australia

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 5:08 pm
However being weird is not a reason for the ATF or the FBI to have gone after the group the way they did. They had not broken any laws

Yes, I agree. But I’m still at a loss as to how you could hold him up as a regular guy exercising his 2nd amendment rights. That shit won’t fly with the kind of people you’d be willing to have a beer with. Find a better poster boy.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:09 pm
Okay, I admit linking to that asshat, Lena Dunham, was a cold move. Akin to CL’s Roxonian nightmares….

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:10 pm
CL

Ordinarily I would agree with you about the Tubbsie and Repugnant Rhiannon thing. However we live in interesting times when the left is attempting to Finkelsitien their opposition. Play their rules and fuck them over as hard as you can.

These evil fucks seriously deserve it.

The Libs should investigate whether there are legal sacntions available and if they broke the law then let them suffer the consequences.

Fuck’em.. crucify them.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 5:10 pm
Sensible?

Living next to a body of water with a bunch of kids and only one of them can swim?

Dan, the kids were aged two to 11, only the 11 yo could swim. without knowing their individual ages, I don’t know of many kids under six who could swim proficiently do you?

Old Fridgie

10 Jan 13 at 5:11 pm
Via another Daily Mail sidebar, feminist Julie Burchill says now that she’s older she’s prepared to admit that in many ways men are superior and women should be more like them (as Professor Higgins argued).

Her List.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 5:11 pm
Frigid, ABC Regional are sticking up for the A Holes.
Who’s TLS?
And where’s that Monty that belongs in Mont Park given it’s so unknowledgable about Nillimbuk and surrounds.

JimD

10 Jan 13 at 5:12 pm
Pickles,

Uncle Joe, Uncle Dave, Uncle Doc, Uncle Lurch … that’s quite a musical family you have there.

Anyhoo, it’s Beer O’Clock! To the strains of ‘Duellin’ Daltons’ I’ve opened a bottle of Stella Artois.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 5:12 pm
I’m not attempting to hold Koresh up as a poster boy. I’m presenting a good argument that even the least attractive fuckers among us have basic rights to be left alone and not be attacked by a column of their own government para-military forces. And if they are, then they also have a right to defend themselves.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 5:13 pm
Ordinarily I would agree with you about the Tubbsie and Repugnant Rhiannon thing. However we live in interesting times when the left is attempting to Finkelsitien their opposition. Play their rules and fuck them over as hard as you can.

Yeah, I know where you’re coming from, JC.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 5:13 pm
Okay, I admit linking to that asshat, Lena Dunham, was a cold move. Akin to CL’s Roxonian nightmares….

Yikes. Looks like someone shaved a Hereford and gave it high heels.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 5:14 pm
Sorry, TLS= The Lying Slapper

Cold-Hands

10 Jan 13 at 5:15 pm
JC, even though former cult members claimed he was a rock spider cult puppet master?

We won’t agree, time to move on.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:17 pm
Septimus, in the old days of the Blairbillies a fellow called Egg and I used to have juellin juke box Fridays. I wonder where he went.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 5:19 pm
IT, don’t let them get to you on moisturizers. I once spent a few years on a desert posting and dayyam, you’ll get eczema on your tongue and eyeballs, it’s so fucking dry.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:20 pm
What about Gibson guitars?

Were they running a cult when raided by the Feds?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 5:20 pm
Thanks Digits, So (too) polite.

JimD

10 Jan 13 at 5:20 pm
I already said Reno fucked it up, CL.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 5:22 pm
Uncle Gerry RIP

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 5:22 pm
Yea, was a bit of a cold shot. Withdrawn

Dan

10 Jan 13 at 5:24 pm
Listening to Don Walker’s Howl at the Moon from We’re all gunna die.

Sage advice from Don: ‘If you gunna run with the wolves, then your gunna have to howl at the moon.’

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 5:26 pm
Blairbillies? … Egg?

Please enlighten me.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 5:27 pm
LFB fits better.
But yes ,4 days and not a word . ABC Regional were sticking up for greenslime this morning.

JimD

10 Jan 13 at 5:27 pm
Tim Blair’s old site. A fellow called Egg.

The dumb Beatle.

With a few other no hopers.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 5:29 pm
Gold lyrics from Don.

‘There’s a little pub called the house of cards,
hidden at the back of the timber yards,
Where they drink like its midnight but its only noon,
If your gunna run with the wolves,
You’d better howl at the moon.’

Sounds like Rabz and Skuter at a CCC drinks night.

John Comnenus

10 Jan 13 at 5:34 pm
This is a quarterly conference call by the management of the (amusingly named) Elli Mae Inc a software service provider to the US mortgage market.

They had an absolutely bang up quarter. Listen to the projections. The US housing market is back and it could turn into a hot market going forward.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=236869&eventID=4890552

US housing market is coming back faster than what people expected.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 5:50 pm
Silvio Berlusconi is right.

Berlusconi in divorce attack on ‘feminist’ court.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 6:14 pm
The world’s greatest tosser, ‘Joe Biden – who is currently heading up the White House Task Force on Gun Violence – is going to cartoonland to begin disarmament talks with videogame characters.

Revealing a shocking loophole in current gun laws, VP Biden has pointed out that videogame characters are currently able to obtain assault-style weapons with no background checks or psychological evaluations, in much the same way that Democrats select political candidates.’

You could not make this up if you tried.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 6:20 pm
Meanwhile, one of the Government’s leading sycophants, David Koch, falsely claims to provide “the facts” on “asylum-seekers”—i.e., unlawful non-citizens seeking illegal entry—in “The Real Benefits For Asylum Seekers In Australia”; instead he provides pious howlers and wrong-headed assertions.

Deadman

10 Jan 13 at 6:30 pm
RECENT photos from Indonesia showing several cattle being lifted by the head by a crane are not Australian livestock, industry spokespeople say……

……Quick to reject the cattle as Australian, the Australian live Export Council chief executive Alison Penfold took to Twitter, saying the cattle were a local Indonesia breed.

Ah yes but the damage to the image of live cattle exporters is done.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 6:37 pm
Course he’s right. The Milan Judges are basically a bunch of commie ratbags out to get him because they don’t like him abusing the law to get him.

The deepest part of the sewer of western decline starts at the divorce and family courts.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 6:42 pm
my comment just got eaten up by the spam filter.
Abu, it’s not about the weirdo himself…. 75 other people including children perished in the seige.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 6:51 pm
Wow. Breaking. (okay, not really , since no major news agency will cover this in Australia).

A guy in Tennessee yesterday tried to do a school massacre Newtown style; but was challenged at the front door by a teacher with a gun. He fled and was shot and killed by police.

Nobody else was harmed.

Read the whole thing, as they say.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 6:57 pm
Helen:

possibly due to the influence of a green female

Yes guys will do anything for free love with a hippy chick.

While at uni I was, for a while, a socialist.

In my defence I plead a 38D brunette and being 19 years of age.

(There’s not a man in the world who’ll convict on a defence that good, and I did get better)

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 6:59 pm
was challenged at the front door by a teacher with a gun. He fled and was shot and killed by police.

So the teacher didn’t shoot the mongrel but being armed was enough to deter. Good. That’s how it should work.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 7:00 pm
actually not a teacher per se but a ‘resource officer’… ancilliary staff. but close enough.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 7:01 pm
Helen
Sturt Status Report please.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 7:03 pm
Sturt Status Report please. Que?

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 7:16 pm
The firt of Gillard’s married fathers?

Michael O’Connor

Apparently has no problem with his own dual roles at the CFMEU and First Super.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 7:16 pm
Any rain and stuff.

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 7:26 pm
So the teacher didn’t shoot the mongrel but being armed was enough to deter. Good. That’s how it should work.

The cowards pick schools as they assume the teachers will not be armed and they can then act in a horrendous way to get the fame they crave.

His mistake was to try it in a red state. I’m sad to say soon these guys will realise how close Illinois is with their insane Teachers Union…

Token

10 Jan 13 at 7:31 pm
Re those ‘cows in Indo’ – makes me laugh, all referred to as cows when they were plainly 18 mo mickeys. Unless there is a new breed that can be milked via testes. Sad that Jakarta is so meat hungry as a result of the ban they are actually slaughtering these immature and thin animals.

It is probably not as cruel as it looked, the animals are all trained to tie up and be docile, so it wouldn’t, be the same as treating a range animal that way, for instance. I know there is video of mustering full grown bulls in Hawaii? where they rope the hind leg and air lift them out to a pickup truck apparently without ill effect – can’t find it.

having said all that though, there are always plenty of fishing nets in Indo, they could have slung them in a bunch in a net. Just sayin.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 7:39 pm
Nah, no rain, bit of thunder, few spits, odd shower, but Narelle is having a big influence at mo. Hot and humid, I am filling up the easy set pool (and I have run the tank dry so now must start the creek pump – I’ll have a big whiskey waiting for him when he gets back). Cows are doing well because only 150 ml (about half normal) of rain means more protein in grass, but we will have to fence in more country to carry them.

Helen Armstrong

10 Jan 13 at 7:43 pm
my comment just got eaten up by the spam filter.
Abu, it’s not about the weirdo himself…. 75 other people including children perished in the seige.

dd, yes: due to Koresh, ultimately.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 8:38 pm
Hey this is totally off topic but do any Java coders hang out here? MIT Battlecode is back (only once chance per year) and I’m trying to get a team.

Ignore this if it makes no sense.

Tel

10 Jan 13 at 8:42 pm
Abu

What did Koresh or his followers actually do that was illegal?

Provide the evidence, not just the assertions of the FBI and the ATF.

All those accusations of child molestation came after the attack and the people that survived all said it wasn’t true.

The guns he owned, he owned legally.

It seems to me that Koresh’s crime was that he headed a cult.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 8:48 pm
Cows are doing well because only 150 ml (about half normal) of rain means more protein in grass, but we will have to fence in more country to carry them.

Love these snippets, Helen. Educational.

Also relates to MK50′s point to Andrew back up thread yesterday (I just took five to check in and review) that hanging out here will bring perspectives from people who do lots of occupations and with experiences he may never have come into contact with before.

This is not the urban left talking to itself, or a university tutorial on ‘political economy’; this is life with the perspectives pitched into battle from all over the place. Marinaded in some Austrian economic theory.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

10 Jan 13 at 9:06 pm
He was a ped cult leader, JC. Do try and keep up.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 9:10 pm
Call me old fashioned but if my friend died on an overseas holiday I wouldn’t keep partying. That’s probably why I wouldn’t be dead 3 days later from the same thing.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 9:11 pm
Wow. Breaking. (okay, not really , since no major news agency will cover this in Australia).

A guy in Tennessee yesterday tried to do a school massacre Newtown style; but was challenged at the front door by a teacher with a gun. He fled and was shot and killed by police.

Nobody else was harmed.

Read the whole thing, as they say.

I did, dd. The reason nobody will report it today is that it happened on 31 August 2010.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 9:14 pm
Pickles,

Uncle Doc. Has a headache

I didn’t get the import of your wording as I hadn’t seen the news. Not good.

Septimus

10 Jan 13 at 9:15 pm
Abu

I did keep up with the entire story. It’s not true he was a pedo.

At least it may be true, but it was pretty strange that the accusation only came out after the attack. There was never any evidence the authorities had talked about/even thought it was possible until after.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 9:15 pm
IT would you kick your kid’s arse if he did that? I would uncaring little shit

Tal

10 Jan 13 at 9:18 pm
The reason the ATF went after Koresh originally was that he possessed illegal explosives (i.e. hand grenades), and had modified some guns to be rapid-fire weapons.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 9:19 pm
Monty, did you have a nice Christmas and new year?

Tal

10 Jan 13 at 9:21 pm
He was a ped cult leader

So if a govt agency suspects I’m a ped, it givs them the right to burn down my house and kill everyone it?

I’m in favour of this principal if it is extended to car theives and graffiti ‘artists’.

Steve of Ferny Hills

10 Jan 13 at 9:22 pm
Tal, you have to kick their arses long before they are that age or they’ll turn into super bogans like those losers.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
I did, thank you Tal. Yourself?

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
He was a ped cult leader, JC. Do try and keep up.

The government will rarely go after ordinary taxpaying citizens in the first instance. They don’t invent new illegal raid procedures for people who have done nothing. That kind of thing doesn’t usually happen till 15-20 years later when what was once outrageous has been normalised, and then someone screws up an address.

The point being that rights apply to everyone, or eventually they will apply to nobody.

Tim

10 Jan 13 at 9:24 pm
He was a ped cult leader

And that falls under the ATF? Strange.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 9:24 pm
The reason the ATF went after Koresh originally was that he possessed illegal explosives (i.e. hand grenades), and had modified some guns to be rapid-fire weapons.

That’s what came out after, Monster. The accusation was that he was stashing weapons. However stashing weapons… buying them.. wasn’t illegal.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 9:27 pm
I thought they went after him cos they thought he was another Jonestown?

candy

10 Jan 13 at 9:27 pm
True IT true I’m sure ITj will be a lovely young man
Monty,yes I had a wonderful Christmas ate and drank my weight as is the norm sending lots of time on my pushy

Tal

10 Jan 13 at 9:29 pm
That’s what came out after, Monster. The accusation was that he was stashing weapons. However stashing weapons… buying them.. wasn’t illegal.

Those were the charges they took to him just before the whole thing blew up.

Rumored to be stockpiled inside was an arsenal of explosives and weapons, some of which reportedly had been illegally converted to rapid-fire automatic.

That put them under the ATF’s jurisdiction. A UPS driver had tipped off the government when a package bound for Mount Carmel had broken open to reveal casings for hand grenades. While the group did earn money from gun sales and were legally allowed to trade in arms, it appeared that they weren’t following protocol.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 9:33 pm
He was a ped cult leader

And that falls under the ATF? Strange.

Actually there have been accusations he was a ped and the claim was made by a victim in congressional hearings several years later.

But the important point is that when the attack on the compound occurred there was never an accusation of this nature.

The ATF was after his guns, which were purchased legally.

Koresh was a bad person and evil in some ways, but he hadn’t committed the crimes he was accused of at the time of the attack.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 9:34 pm
Apparently he had empty grenade shells and black powder delivered, as seen by the UPS guy. Seems like he was making grenades probably to sell? Is that legal?

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 9:39 pm
Abu

I did keep up with the entire story. It’s not true he was a pedo.

At least it may be true, but it was pretty strange that the accusation only came out after the attack. There was never any evidence the authorities had talked about/even thought it was possible until after.

JC
10 Jan 13 at 9:15 pm

Well my friend who became one of his brides was raising her kid (he was the father) to also be a bride. He was a cancer. You should not use that sick f**k to defend owning weapons.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 9:39 pm
…75 other people including children perished in the seige.

Collateral damage to lesbian Reno.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 9:39 pm
This one was worse actually… Yea the government is always on the side of the angels… like fuck they are.

Ruby Ridge was the site of a deadly confrontation and siege in northern Idaho in 1992 because Randy Weaver refused to be an informant for the federal government. It involved Weaver, his family, Weaver’s friend Kevin Harris, and agents of the United States Marshals Service and Federal Bureau of Investigation. It resulted in the death of Weaver’s son Sammy, his wife Vicki, and Deputy US Marshal William Francis Degan.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 9:40 pm
The family could not do anything. They were here, and not well off, she was 18, and in another country.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 9:40 pm
Former Senator John Danforth, under the direction of Acting Attorney General Eric Holder, conducted a 14-month, $17-million investigation that exonerated the government of any wrongdoing.

Heh. Say no more.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 9:42 pm
Koresh was a bad person and evil in some ways, but he hadn’t committed the crimes he was accused of at the time of the attack.

I see a pattern forming here in JC’s justification for his beliefs. He is prepared to excuse some pretty sick behaviour by people he sees as victims of his shared enemies.

To JC, it’s not really important that David Koresh took 15 wives including teenagers, and trained dozens of people to be his cannon fodder in an armed battle with the Government to prove he was the messiah. It’s more important that he and his followers were exercising their constitutional rights in shooting those ATF personnel.

From his earliest inklings of becoming a libertarian, JC was latching onto the babblings of proven fruit loops, and treating their point of view as more important than anyone else’s in the world. It explains so much.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 9:45 pm
You should not use that sick f**k to defend owning weapons.

Well, nobody is using him thus.

But in what sense was he he a sicker f**k or more dangerous to children than the ATF psychos and the Democrat Attorney-General who incinerated 75 people – including 17 children?

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 9:48 pm
“The family could not do anything. They were here, and not well off, she was 18, and in another country.”

That’s dreadful. As a parent, you’d go out of your mind with that situation your child was in.

candy

10 Jan 13 at 9:51 pm
I am quite comfortable with the fact the ATF effort was unforgivable. Koresh, on the other hand, needed to be erased. And yes, he was extremely dangerous. It isn’t six degrees of separation for me. So back off.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 9:51 pm
…the babblings of proven fruit loops, and treating their point of view as more important than anyone else’s in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xb7AVw_no0

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 9:51 pm
It was one of my mate’s ex girlfriend, candy, not one of my family.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 9:53 pm
I did, dd. The reason nobody will report it today is that it happened on 31 August 2010.

oops.
quelle embarrassment. Instapundit linked to it and I didn’t check the date.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 9:53 pm
Ha. CL is commenting here while his dream woman is softening shallots on ABC1.

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 9:54 pm
Entropy, what happened to the young girl and her child, can you say?

candy

10 Jan 13 at 9:56 pm
from wiki

It is not known who fired the first shots, but each side later claimed it had been the other.[21] ATF agents stated they heard shots coming from within the compound, while Branch Davidian survivors claimed that the first shots came from the ATF agents outside. A suggested reason may have been an accidental discharge of a weapon, possibly by an ATF agent, causing the ATF to respond with fire from automatic weapons.

got that? ATF agents opened fire after hearing one of their own weapons discharge.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 9:57 pm
I like Nigella, Steve.

I don’t like cooking shows.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 9:59 pm
I am quite comfortable with the fact the ATF effort was unforgivable.

I don’t see any point of disagreement, then.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 10:02 pm
“It’s all coming together”

“Just add a bit of goo”

“Yum yum”

True selected quotes from Nigella right now.

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:03 pm
JC’s correct, really. Was this kooky little Protestant cult stupid? yes. Did Koresh shag girls as young as 14? Possibly, however, all the claims of that before the events came from disgruntled former members, and all those after from the ATF. There is no evidence that he did.

Did the cult have a meth lab as claimed by ATF so they could obtain a drug link and so obtain military assistance? No. There had been one there, but Koresh had called in the local Sherrif when he took over and had it disassembled and removed. There is no evidence it was ever used AFAIK.

Did the cult have automatic weapons as claimed by ATF in Search Warrant W93-15M for the “residence of Vernon Wayne Howell, and others” signed by “Dennis G. Green (U.S. Magistrate)” dated 25 February 1993 8:43 pm at Waco, Texas?
Almost certainly. While their gun business was both legal and well-run, they had parts and equipment to modify AK-47 back to full auto and some modified semi-auto’s were found in the ruins. However, it is also known that ATF planted evidence in those same ruins.

Did they have ‘machine guns’ as claimed by the ATF. No. The ATF lied about that.

Who fired first? There is now little doubt that the ATF did. The ‘dog team’ shot the Davidian dogs in their kennels and ex-ATF involved in the attack have since admitted ATF fired into the reinforced access door, killing Davidians behind it. The door was never seen again after the destruction of the compound and its immediate razing and demolition by the ATF over the two weeks after the event.

That ATF deliberately razed the crime scene less than 2 weeks after teh final atatck is very telling. it takes months to properly evaluate such an enormous crime scene (witness Bali).

Did the ATF use pyrotechnics despite claiming they did not? Yes, the ATF lied.

Were the Davidians preparing for a mass suicide as the ATF claimed? No, the ATF lied.

Did the ATF shoot dead some of the women and children? Probably. Autopsies showed that women and children were shot and killed by ammo apparently used only by the ATF during the initial attack, siege and final assault.

Did the Davidians kill women and children? Definitely – a least five children were found to have been shot dead. HOWEVER, the coroner stated that these were all mercy killings, as all of the women and children so killed were hopelessly trapped in a collapsed, burning building and had as an alternative only that of burning to death.

Did the ATF murder Michael Schroeder five hours after their first assault was defeated, as he returned to the compound after work? Almost certainly – they certainly lied about him opening fire on half a dozen (genuine) assault rifle armed, armoured ATF with a pistol.

Above all, were any of these events even remotely necessary?

The answer to that is utterly certain – they were not. The local sheriff had good relations with the cult and kept a close eye on it. He ensured that their gun business was proper and legal. he monitored the Davidians fairly closely. Yes, he missed that they were surreptitiously converting semi-automatic weapons into automatic ones. That does not justify what occurred.

Did the ATF lie, weasel, plant fake evidence, deny using pyrotechnics they actually did use, destroy evidence, trump up charges without real basis, and murder at least one man because they were pissed off that their stupid cowboy stunt went bad? Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, quite probably.

At the time and after, this keystone cops amateur-hour goat rodeo was heavily analysed and discussed in special operations circles quite legitimately as an example of what NOT to do. Texas National Guard provided a lot of input from men who had been there at the start, plus the US Army SPECOPs trainers sent in later (very pointedly because the ATF ‘SWAT’ were poorly trained and completely incompetent – they did not even understand basic radio procedure) and British SAS observers (19 British citizens died in the final slaughter – so did two pregnant Australian women, 24yo and 17yo).

The general analysis of those guys was that you might, if lives depended on it, trust ATF management with running a chook raffle, but that you’d NEVER arm any ATF with anything as dangerous as a water pistol. There were and remain totally incompetent in all aspects of law enforcement, let alone anything like a military operation.

Since Waco, ATF has become much less competent and is far more heavily armed.

These genuises ran ‘Fast and Furious’, which is all you need to know.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:03 pm
Premiers going bananas watch:

WEST Australian Premier Colin Barnett says the federal government must press Indonesia to regulate its drinks market, after the death of a teen who drank a methanol-laced cocktail while on holiday.

Mmm, mmm. A country where young people die by the bushel in booze-fuelled accidents, violence and misadventures should demand that the Indonesians regulate alcohol.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 10:05 pm
True selected quotes from Nigella right now.

Here are some others:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtS2Ikk7A9I

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 10:06 pm
The were killed at Waco, Candy. As for evidence of Koresh’s behaviour, her parents have her letters.

Can’t people use some other examples to defend gun ownership? Because Waco is not helping.

I am going elsewhere. I am finding this too disturbing.

Entropy

10 Jan 13 at 10:07 pm
And yes, he was extremely dangerous.

Right. But less so than Janet Reno – who slaughtered 17 toddlers.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 10:08 pm
Mark, the ATF actually used weaponised fire devices?

Wow.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 10:09 pm
And that falls under the ATF? Strange.

Because it’s more important to establish jurisdiction than to stop child sexual abuse?

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:10 pm
And befrore Monty soils yet another gigantic pair os strides, Koresh was a mentally unstable cultist and a rather bad man.

Neither Koresh nor the ATF were anything like as evil, incompetent and bay-at-the-moon insane as the Lying Slapper and her racist greenfilth partners in mass-killing of little brown people at sea (1000+), insulation installers (4), Australian citizens in bushfires (200+) or the elderly and young in heatwaves and cold snaps – their latest targeted victim group.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:12 pm
Because it’s more important to establish jurisdiction than to stop child sexual abuse?

Did I say that? If there was evidence or reports of child abuse then why didn’t the proper authorities investigate in the first instance?

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:13 pm
Well, nobody is using him thus.

JC used him as an example of a poor ordinary decent citizen who should have been allowed access to automatic weapons.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:13 pm
No surprise that Mk50 is on the side of the gun running ped cultist, believing all the conspiracy theories about the government and believing none of the theories about Koresh.

Why does the right tend so much to gravitate to defending peds as their edge case?

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:13 pm
I’m saying he’s a shit poster boy for that right, though I think people should be allowed access to automatic weapons, within reason and under regulation.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
Fuck off Monty. Twat.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:15 pm
Abu, JC’s original comment was that the siege affected his political outlook when he was in the US because it was a shocking exemplar of fascist statism. It certainly was that.

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 10:16 pm
Why does the right tend so much to gravitate to defending peds as their edge case?

Why didn’t the authorities investigate this aspect in the first case?

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:16 pm
Did I say that? If there was evidence or reports of child abuse then why didn’t the proper authorities investigate in the first instance?

Sorry Gab, I read it younger being sarcastic, rather than accepting you might have had a genuine query. Apologies.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:16 pm
Did I say that? If there was evidence or reports of child abuse then why didn’t the proper authorities investigate in the first instance?

Sorry Gab, I read it you were being sarcastic, rather than accepting you might have had a genuine query. Apologies.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:16 pm
should be allowed access to automatic weapons, within reason and under regulation.

To do what, exactly?

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:17 pm
Damn iPad.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:17 pm
“Koresh was accused of being a child abuser”

So we are saying that use of force to protect the innocent against a violation of their rights is a valid and legitimate use of coercion?

No argument from me.

How did the clusterfuck that ensued protect the innocent?

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
So far so good Helen

Pickles

10 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
Why didn’t the authorities investigate this aspect in the first case?

Because they didn’t have solid evidence, apparently. They did have evidence about the weapons.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
To do what, exactly?

Shoot them. Pistol shooting at the range is good fun, my cocksucking friend.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
I’m so sorry Entropy, what a terrible topic to come up for discussion.

candy

10 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
How did they get Al Capone? Not for his worse crimes.

Same with UK terrorist scum they got through welfare fraud.

Like I said earlier, Koresh’s victims died with him and could not bear witness. So much for the coronial inquest.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
And yes, to reiterate, Reno was a scumbag.

But Koresh was not the dad in, “The Castle”.

Abu Chowdah

10 Jan 13 at 10:22 pm
Yes. Asking a question as to why access to automatic weapons is something worthwhile is a sure sign of homosexuality. Wanker.

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:26 pm
Abu, JC’s original comment was that the siege affected his political outlook when he was in the US because it was a shocking exemplar of fascist statism. It certainly was that.

Not just that. “The Waco thing was responsible for me turning libertarian while living there,” JC said. His whole political outlook was shaped by a messianic cult leader committing suicide by police. The emblematic selfish arsehole claiming ultimate selfish victimhood.

JC found a nexus between Ludwig von Mises and David Koresh. Add in Gordon Gecko, and that’s his Holy Trinity. Mises as the Father, Gecko the Son, and Koresh as the Holy Ghost.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:28 pm
Because they didn’t have solid evidence, apparently. They did have evidence about the weapons.

Okay, thanks. So the argument appears to be whether the ATF should have proceeded based on a witness report alleging guns and grenade shells and black powder being seen to be delivered to Koresh. This is what JC and others are contesting: whether the ATF had the right to go on the basis of presumably legal fire arms possession. The pedo thing is a separate issue and all here would agree first preference the authorities to go in on that basis, monty. No one here is protecting Koresch on that score, just debating whether the ATF had the right to storm the place to search for guns.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:28 pm
Abu, JC’s original comment was that the siege affected his political outlook when he was in the US because it was a shocking exemplar of fascist statism. It certainly was that.

True. This is only from wiki, but…

Helicopters had been obtained from the Alabama and Texas National Guard on the pretext that there was a drug laboratory at Mount Carmel.[33][83] There were, however, no drug related charges on the arrest warrant served on the morning of February 28, 1993.

Huh?

The were killed at Waco, Candy. As for evidence of Koresh’s behaviour, her parents have her letters.

Can’t people use some other examples to defend gun ownership? Because Waco is not helping.

I am going elsewhere. I am finding this too disturbing.

This is not what JC really said. You have been deceived by monty.

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:28 pm
Can’t people use some other examples to defend gun ownership? Because Waco is not helping.

It’s got nothing to do with gun ownership.

It’s got to do with military wartime techniques being used by the government against its own citizens, resulting in massive loss of innocent life.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 10:29 pm
CL – no. They stated they used no device with any possible incendiary effect (ie, nothing which could cause a fire). They used (from my old notes) M651E1 rounds which can start fires as they get red-hot, parachute flares and flash-bangs, which can rupture plastic drums and start inflammable contents burning.

ATF also took huge pains to paint the Davidians as deliberately torching themselves to embarrass the ATF(!).

Personally, I do think the ATF started the fires through simple incompetence, a resource thay have in tremendous abundance. Koresh’s stupid cult shares the blame because the idiots had fuel stored all over the place in drums, and stuff-all firefighting gear.

The cult was very nasty and getting worse, don’t think for an instant I am defending them in any way.

But the ATF…

As one AFP IDG guy said (shaking his head) years later when studying it: ‘There were kids and pregnant women in there with a nutter in charge and lots of guns, so set a solid perimeter with a berm to protect your people in case the idiots open fire, tell the Minister it may take a year to resolve without bloodshed so you need an open cheque, and call in the negotiators to start boring them so much they surrender in preference to having to listen to them keep droning on’.

I have just noticed Entropy’s comment. My apologies and sympathies. I think this subject should be ended now.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:29 pm
Classy, Monty.

In Monty’s perverted and diseased ‘mind’,

…Koresh was a mentally unstable cultist and a rather bad man.

becomes:

Mk50 is on the side of the gun running ped cultist

You are mentally ill, and need professional help.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:33 pm
His whole political outlook was shaped by a messianic cult leader committing suicide by police. The emblematic selfish arsehole claiming ultimate selfish victimhood.

JC found a nexus between Ludwig von Mises and David Koresh. Add in Gordon Gecko, and that’s his Holy Trinity. Mises as the Father, Gecko the Son, and Koresh as the Holy Ghost.

You are deliberately twisting JC’s meaning and basically saying he is a ped0-sympathiser, monty. That’s low. Can you not separate the issues during a debate?

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:35 pm
JC found a nexus between Ludwig von Mises and David Koresh. Add in Gordon Gecko, and that’s his Holy Trinity. Mises as the Father, Gecko the Son, and Koresh as the Holy Ghost.

What a load of horseshit monty. Straight out of Pravda.

Why didn’t the authorities investigate this aspect in the first case?

Because they didn’t have solid evidence, apparently. They did have evidence about the weapons

So to protect the children, they engaged in a siege?

Koresh got what was coming but Reno should have at least been sacked for incompetence.

Part of the problem is the batshit US and security system.

Who was involved?

Texas Rangers, Alabama and Texas National Guard, ATF, FBI..throw in Ruby Ridge and you have the US Secret Service and the US Marhsals.

Thank god we’ve got the AFP who can second state police and copied the British Mi 1-6 intelligence system.

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:35 pm
This explanation of the Europe/UK divide nicely sums up the left/right divide as well imo.

European and British leaders tend to come from rival intellectual traditions. In Britain, empiricism – most closely associated with Hume, though its roots can be traced back to William of Ockham and others – is the native inheritance. Empiricism insists that all knowledge of fact must be based on experience. Most European schools of philosophy claim the exact opposite, namely that ideas are the only things that truly exist. This school of metaphysical idealism can be traced back through Hegel (for whom history itself is the realisation of an idea) and Kant to Plato.

Anglo-Saxon empiricism and the idealism found on the Continent therefore prescribe directly opposite courses of political conduct. Empiricists are trained in scepticism and caution: if you put your hand in the fire once, you will not do so again. Idealists, by contrast, are much less likely to renounce a course of conduct or set of beliefs because reality gets in the way.

Empiricists, alert to the lessons of history and conscious of man’s tragic imperfection, are wary. So they concentrate on specific rules – honesty, decency, accuracy, compassion to friends or care for a particular community. Idealists tend to embrace grand plans for social reconstruction or for general human salvation. They are much less worried by rule-breaking, especially if they believe that it serves the greater good.

It is this underlying philosophical disposition that explains the continued reverence felt by the European political class for the euro, when empiricists would have given up long ago. Indeed, it is impossible to avoid a certain grudging respect for the imperishable optimism of the single-currency enthusiasts, their absolute refusal to be deterred by adversity and contrary evidence. (This is something they have in common with the American neo-cons, unrepentant despite the twin calamities of Afghanistan and Iraq, and still urging fresh fields for armed intervention.)

But it should be remembered that these European leaders are doing something very cruel indeed. The euro has caused mass misery and suffering on a scale not seen in peacetime Europe since the early 1930s. In Greece, with 58 per cent youth unemployment, the hopes of an entire generation have been wiped out. Spain is facing the same predicament.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9790932/Europes-dogmatic-ruling-class-remains-wedded-to-its-folly.html

viva

10 Jan 13 at 10:36 pm
This is what JC and others are contesting: whether the ATF had the right to go on the basis of presumably legal fire arms possession.

When a government official flashes a warrant to search your premises, a normal person doesn’t refuse and hole himself up with dozens of his best mates and family in a compound to sit out an interminable siege with 400,000 rounds of ammo on hand.

The rule of law requires citizens to submit to lawful searches of their premises. Warrants to do so are usually granted on sound premises – if not, there are recourses through the courts. Koresh had no right to take the law into his own hands.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
They had a search warrant. They chose to execute the search warrant with commandos who did not identify themselves as officers of the law.

Once the seige was on they set up huge speakers and played rock music at the compound to keep everyone awake – to get them sleep deprived. Keep in mind that there were children among those inside the compound.

Every decision the authorities made was about demonstrating their power and was contemptous of the risks to human life. End result: scores dead.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 10:38 pm
That’s a better argument, monty.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:38 pm
It’s got nothing to do with gun ownership.

It’s got to do with military wartime techniques being used by the government against its own citizens, resulting in massive loss of innocent life.

Yes. It is just like the war on drugs.

Here is a memo relating from the Ruby Ridge incident:

FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson wrote a memo:
OPR 004477
Something to Consider
1. Charge against Weaver is Bull Shit.
2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.
3. Vicki has no charges against her.
4. Weaver’s defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was
barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog.
Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the
shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position.”

Ruby Ridge: Report of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 1995.

If the Government can arbitrarily suspend rule of law and lawful killing rules monty, why don’t people have a right to shoot back?

Are you saying your right to life is governed by the volition of a senior police commander?

Of course it wouldn’t be a problem if they didn’t make up bullshit such as false charges against law abiding gun owners – and acted professionally in the first damned place.

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:40 pm
I think people should be allowed access to automatic weapons, within reason and under regulation

Anyone in Australia can own automatic weapons. You just need a Cat D license or a theatrical armourer’s license. Once visited a theatrical armourer (friend of a friend) in Sydney to but some small .303 parts. It was odd helping him to move scores of rifles, boxes of pistols, SMG, machine guns, LMG, crates full of L1A1, mortars etc while we looked for the parts. Every movie and TV show made in Australia uses his weapons. He’s got dozens of well-restored artillery pieces too.

Nice bloke, and his wife has to be a saint. She keeps finding her car parked on the road and yet another artillery piece in the garage.

Hey, it earns him money.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:42 pm
The rule of law requires citizens to submit to lawful searches of their premises.

Sure. But that never happened. It was what’s known these days as a no-knock dawn raid – something becoming more prevalent in the US.
Nobody strolled up to the front door with a search warrant flashing their badge and ringing the doorbell.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
You are deliberately twisting JC’s meaning and basically saying he is a ped0-sympathiser, monty. That’s low. Can you not separate the issues during a debate?

I’m not saying JC is a ped sympathiser. I’m saying he ignores bad behaviour by people he sees as fellow victims of his enemies. To him, the lesson from Waco was not about Koresh’s actions or alleged crimes, it was about Koresh being a victim of government. I am not saying JC is empathetic with Koresh, but that he lacks empathy towards Koresh’s victims.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
Okay, fine, that’s how you see it, that’s how you interpret JC’s motivations, thinking and feelings, however that does not mean you are correct about JC.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:47 pm
Sure. But that never happened. It was what’s known these days as a no-knock dawn raid – something becoming more prevalent in the US.
Nobody strolled up to the front door with a search warrant flashing their badge and ringing the doorbell.

The agents hoped that this incident could be settled quickly. At nearly 10 o’clock, as three teams formed to enter the building, an agent went to the compound’s front door and knocked. “The first entry team was to be inside the front door within seven seconds after the convoy pulled up to the compound,” says Linedecker. “All the assault teams would be deployed within thirteen seconds.” They’d been preparing for this for eight months, and each team had an assignment: protect the children, neutralize the military force, and seize the arms.

Koresh looked out from behind a steel door and learned that the agents had a search warrant. Instead of letting them in, he slammed the door and then someone started shooting.

Actually yes dd, they did.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 10:48 pm
viva

I like that post.

To a British empiricist, European metaphysical idealism illustrates that marvellous human ability to follow a truly stupid idea to the bitter end, no matter how much it hurts.

Then they blame everyone else and set up death camps.

Gotta wonder about those idiots.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:48 pm
Sure. But that never happened. It was what’s known these days as a no-knock dawn raid – something becoming more prevalent in the US.

Not on a similar scale in terms of number of police and weapons, but that reminds me of the way they arrested that youtube film maker.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 10:50 pm
I agree with Monty’s summary above. Particularly with the protections regarding issuing a warrant in the US.

This doesn’t subtract from what you can tell by the way Monty phrases his point. He’s one of those people who needs boundaries, not because he’s frightened other people will hurt him, but because he fears he’ll be left behind if other people don’t have boundaries to restrain their progress.

Perhaps if we saw more of Monty’s life, you would conclude those fears are valid!

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 10:51 pm
When a government official flashes a warrant to search your premises

Not what they actually did.

a normal person doesn’t refuse and hole himself up with dozens of his best mates and family in a compound to sit out an interminable siege with 400,000 rounds of ammo on hand.

It doesn’t matter if your abnormal, or even a fatso. Rights are equally applied before the law.

The rule of law requires citizens to submit to lawful searches of their premises.

The search was done by surprise, without proper notice and on falsified grounds.

Warrants to do so are usually granted on sound premises – if not, there are recourses through the courts. Koresh had no right to take the law into his own hands.

These ones were not.

Forgetting that, it was a poor policing operation.

The police have a duty to protect the life of innocents, rather than to win a contest of egos with someone like Koresh. Protecting the lives of civilians in the present moment is more important than enforcing a warrant regarding firearms regulation.

Koresh actually offered the ATF to inspect their arms and paperwork in 1992. The ATF declined.

.

10 Jan 13 at 10:52 pm
“The first entry team was to be inside the front door within seven seconds after the convoy pulled up to the compound,”

m0nty, how is that compatible with knocking, asking to speak to the resident, showing your identification, and handing them a search warrant?
They planned to be inside the compound within seven seconds of their vehicle stopping.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 10:52 pm
MOnty:

I’m not saying JC is a ped sympathiser.

Monty. You. Lie.
You have used that lie systematically.

No surprise that Mk50 is on the side of the gun running ped cultist, believing all the conspiracy theories about the government and believing none of the theories about Koresh.

Why does the right tend so much to gravitate to defending peds as their edge case?

You are mentally sick. You need to seek professional psychatric help.

Mk50 of Brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
That’s not to say the US government isn’t always trying usurp basic rights and distort the boundaries imposed upon it by the constitution.

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 10:55 pm
To him, the lesson from Waco was not about Koresh’s actions or alleged crimes, it was about Koresh being a victim of government. I am not saying JC is empathetic with Koresh, but that he lacks empathy towards Koresh’s victims.

Christ you’re full of crap. Everytime someone has criticised the US Government, their concern was for the innocent people who died – as for any other victims – the paramilitaried police lost any opportunity to try Koresh in court.

You absolve the paramilitary police of any responsibility.

They lied from the beginning, refused to inspect the arms in the first place, and saw protecting their ego and enforcing the warrant at any cost to be more important than protecting the innocents.

You won’t even admit the police forces lied about the pretext of the raid or were incompetent in regulating the law, executing the warrant or dealing with the siege situation.

Here is something actually above the bottom of the barrel on the topic:

http://www.davekopel.com/waco/lawrev/warrant.htm

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
Not what they actually did.

Actually, it is what they did. See above

The search was done by surprise, without proper notice and on falsified grounds.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

m0nty, how is that compatible with knocking, asking to speak to the resident, showing your identification, and handing them a search warrant?
They planned to be inside the compound within seven seconds of their vehicle stopping.

Are you saying police can’t even enter private property to knock on the door of a building therein to serve a warrant, dd? Seems a bit silly.

The cultists were all in the church on a Sunday for a service, they rocked up in their vehicles outside, and several agents knocked on the door of the church to show the warrant. Sounds straightforward to me.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:01 pm
About the warrant, seems dubious:

According to the Affidavit presented by ATF investigator David Aguilera to U.S. Magistrate Dennis G. Green on February 25, 1993, the Branch Davidian gun business (the “Mag Bag”, Route 7, Box 555-B, Waco, Texas, 76705, located on Farm Road number 2491), had purchased many legal guns and gun parts from various legal vendors (such as 45 semi-automatic AR-15 lower receivers from Olympic Arms). Deliveries by UPS for the “Mag Bag” were accepted and paid for at Mount Carmel Center by Woodrow Kendrick, Paul Fatta, David Koresh or Steve Schneider. These purchases were traced by Aguilera through the normal channels used to track legal firearms purchases from legal vendors. None of the weapons and firearms were illegally obtained nor illegally owned by the “Mag Bag”; however, Aguilera affirmed to the judge that in his experience, in the past other purchasers of such legal gun parts had modified them to make illegal firearms. The search warrant was justified not on the basis there was proof that the Davidians had purchased anything illegal, but on the basis that they could be modifying legal arms to illegal arms, and that automatic weapon fire had been reported on the compound.[28] When the reports of automatic fire were first received, Steve Schneider and David Koresh showed[citation needed] the County Sheriff’s Department a “Hellfire” device, a quick-firing trigger sold with an ATF letter certifying that the device was not a machinegun.

The affidavit of ATF investigator David Aguilera for the search warrant claimed that there were over 150 weapons and 8,100 rounds of ammunition in the compound. The paperwork on the AR-15 components cited in the affidavit showed they were in fact legal semi-automatics; however, Aguilera told the judge: “I know based on my training and experience that an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle practically identical to the M-16 rifle. [...] I have been involved in many cases where defendants, following a relatively simple process, convert AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic rifles of the nature of the M-16. [...] Often times templates, milling machines, lathes and instruction guides are used by the converter.”[29] Aguilera stated in the affidavit and later testified at trial that a neighbor had heard machine-gun fire. However Aguilera failed to tell the magistrate that the same neighbor had previously reported the noise to the local Waco sheriff, who investigated the neighbor’s complaint. Paul Fatta, who was also involved in the failed takeover of the group in 1987, told The New York Times that Koresh and he had visited the sheriff after the surveillance had been spotted and claimed that the sheriff’s office told them their guns were legal.[30]

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:03 pm
monty has defended the policing practices of the Waco siege in every circumstance, let’s ask him if he thought Ruby Ridge was executed just as professionally, legally and in the name of protecting the innocent.

Why does the right tend so much to gravitate to defending peds as their edge case?

monty

You vote ALP. Why do you vote for sick people like that?

Can you explain why the ATF executed a search warrant to arrest Koresh on child abuse charges? Do you even know what the ATF does? Would you like to explain how going off the word of a social worker regarding whacko ideas, rather than evidence of child sexual abuse, gave probable cause?

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:05 pm
Here is something actually above the bottom of the barrel on the topic:

LOL, you’re quoting Dave Kopel. Another conspiracy theory, Dot you’re on a roll lately.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:07 pm
Can you explain why the ATF executed a search warrant to arrest Koresh on child abuse charges?

They didn’t. The warrant was for weapons charges, which is under the ATF’s jurisdiction.

Are you even capable of arguing without lying any more, Dot?

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Actually, it is what they did. See above

now you’re just trolling.
The article you found doesn’t say that at all. It says they tried to get inside the building – with the stopwatch running – within 7 seconds of pulling up.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Oh dear!
I seem to have stumbled into a pointless debate by Whackos about Waco Whackos.

Back away slowly ……

Leigh Lowe

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Monty is one of those neo-Statists who believes that the State is always right, and justified in whatever they do.

“DON’T QUESTION AUTHORITY! DON’T YOU DARE QUESTION AUTHORITY!”

What the hell happened to the Left?

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Fair call dot. Voting for the ALP is a vote for the party of peds

Tiny Dancer

10 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Not what they actually did.

Actually, it is what they did. See above

No, it isn’t monty. You do not “knock and announce” and plan to “have another team inserted” within seconds.

Jesus christ can you imagine what a judge would do with such a request on a search warrant?

The search was done by surprise, without proper notice and on falsified grounds.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

No, I am correct and have backed this up. Stop lying.

Are you saying police can’t even enter private property to knock on the door of a building therein to serve a warrant, dd? Seems a bit silly.

It’s NOT comparable.

The cultists were all in the church on a Sunday for a service, they rocked up in their vehicles outside, and several agents knocked on the door of the church to show the warrant. Sounds straightforward to me.

You also take the word of one side over the other and frame your view from here.

It is irrelevant.

Koresh was a crimnal and a cult leader. The paramilitarised police were incompetent and unprofessional, used false pretences, were uncooperative previously and played a game of machismo with Koresh without regarding the safety of innocents in the situation.

The safety of children and so on was an afterthought.

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:12 pm
Why does the right tend so much to gravitate to defending peds as their edge case?

mOnty you are an overweight single man with a beard who operates a website designed to ensnare kiddies.

Tread gently mate, let I say something cnutish.

Happy New Year.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 11:12 pm
Waco: The Rules of Engagement – DVDRip With 911 Calls & Infrared

You can find it on teh torrents cough*piratebay*cough if it’s not otherwise available in Oz.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
m0nty’s just trolling now to drag this thing out. Time to wrap it up.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
I missed all this as I was watching a movie.

Who is Monster suggesting supported a pedo?

Fat boy, are you making these sorts of accusations?

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
Ruby Ridge, as mentioned above, was a real eye-opener as well.

It should have been a wake-up call to more people in the wider population than it was.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:16 pm
LOL, you’re quoting Dave Kopel. Another conspiracy theory, Dot you’re on a roll lately.

No monty, that’s just libellous crap when you don’t have an argument to offer. You sourced…trutv.com

I’d smirk but the subject is too sombre.

They didn’t. The warrant was for weapons charges, which is under the ATF’s jurisdiction.

Are you even capable of arguing without lying any more, Dot?

No, you are lying, this was admitted by ATF agent Aguleria in 1993 testimony to Congress – they mentioned the child abuse claims on the warrant.

This is on his site, and properly referenced by Kopel, whom you dismiss because you are a low information bigot with slow wit.

Fair call dot. Voting for the ALP is a vote for the party of peds

Absolutely. The ego of an ATF agent, and the sick pleasures of Finnegan, Orkopolous etc matter more to monty than actually protecting innocent people.

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:19 pm
I reckon Sinc employs mOnty to keep the hit counter spinning.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 11:20 pm
now you’re just trolling.
The article you found doesn’t say that at all. It says they tried to get inside the building – with the stopwatch running – within 7 seconds of pulling up.

Yes, that was their plan assuming they were let in willingly, but Koresh shut the door. The agents followed procedure and didn’t enter.

It was not a “no-knock dawn raid” as you said, and
your statement that “nobody strolled up to the front door with a search warrant flashing their badge and ringing the doorbell” was also wrong. Are you going for a hat-trick of factual errors this fine evening, dd?

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:20 pm
The warrant was for weapons charges,

JC was right in the first place. Koresh had legally obtained guns and sold them legally. The warrant was based on ATF Investigator Aguilera’s experience of other people converting AR-15s to M-16 rifles. No evidence at all that Koresh was doing the same.

And then people died as a result.

Aguilera told the judge: “I know based on my training and experience that an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle practically identical to the M-16 rifle. [...] I have been involved in many cases where defendants, following a relatively simple process, convert AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic rifles of the nature of the M-16. [...] Often times templates, milling machines, lathes and instruction guides are used by the converter.”[

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:21 pm
STOP QUESTIONING AUTHORITY you guys.

You’re upsetting m0nty.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:22 pm
I reckon Sinc employs mOnty to keep the hit counter spinning.

I’ve often thought the same. I also reckon Hammygar is really Sinclair, for the same reason. Or maybe because Sinclair has a wicked sense of humour.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:24 pm
I am not saying JC is empathetic with Koresh, but that he lacks empathy towards Koresh’s victims.

you disgusting turd monster. The entire premise of the story is that the state created those victims through it’s actions.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:24 pm
I’m not taking the bait, m0nty. it’s over.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 11:25 pm
No, it isn’t monty. You do not “knock and announce” and plan to “have another team inserted” within seconds.

Jesus christ can you imagine what a judge would do with such a request on a search warrant?

Dot, don’t come the raw prawn. You know that’s how police have executed search warrants on premises with armed suspects for decades, since the rise of SWAT teams. They all run like that. You’re being deliberately obtuse again.

You also take the word of one side over the other and frame your view from here.

The story I keep linking to is from a Time-Warner site, one of those “true crime” series. Hardly partisan, I would have thought.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:26 pm
Nigella looking YUMMY.

Nigella also talks dirty.

Splatacrobat

10 Jan 13 at 11:27 pm
You know that’s how police have executed search warrants on premises with armed suspects for decades, since the rise of SWAT teams. They all run like that

ffs that’s the whole point! We don’t like that shit.
We don’t like police acting like the military.

is the light beginning to dawn?

dd

10 Jan 13 at 11:28 pm
I’m not taking the bait, m0nty. it’s over.

Yes. Monty’s channeling Eduard Khil again.

sdog

10 Jan 13 at 11:30 pm
bugger i should have caught up further doen the thread

Splatacrobat

10 Jan 13 at 11:30 pm
I’m not saying JC is a ped sympathiser.

Ummm that apples to you too M0nty

No one here has ever said you’re a pedo sympathizer too.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:31 pm
Ah, the Branch Davidian returns. Any news from the funny papers, JC? When is the new date for the end of the world, anyway? You’ve got a line right up to the top, I hear.

The entire premise of the story is that the state created those victims through it’s actions.

The entire premise, really? So Koresh gets off scot free in your interpretation? He didn’t create any victims, only the state did? Amazing. But very telling.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:32 pm
So m0nty is what an ” institutionalist ”

New institutionalism: a social theory that focuses on developing a sociological view of institutions, the way they interact and the effects of institutions on society.

Hope there aren’t too many of em.

jumpnmcar

10 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
Aguleira refused to allow Koresh to be cooperative, lied on the warrant (basically, falsifying probable cause), added in extra, irrelevant information and took a confrontational approach to a situation where innocent people were at risk.

Parties to the conflict (from wiki)

ATF, FBI, Texas National Guard, Texas Rangers, U.S Army Special Forces, British SAS

Totally overblown, based on lies, arrogance and a disregard for innocent lives.

That’s what we don’t like monty and it is a lesson why the Government ought to be constrained.

I’d say you’re obtuse but you’re too fucking ignorant to know or too pleased with the result to care.

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
ffs that’s the whole point! We don’t like that shit.
We don’t like police acting like the military.

is the light beginning to dawn?

You know why they do that though, don’t you dd. Because if they don’t do it that way when it comes to armed suspects, police get killed more often. And whose fault would that be? Police commanders don’t like cops getting killed on their watch.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
Ah, the Branch Davidian returns.

Lol… yea I watched a silly movie. What have you been doing, keeping the people entertained downing 38 dunkins looking for that ultimate sugar high?

Any news from the funny papers, JC? When is the new date for the end of the world, anyway? You’ve got a line right up to the top, I hear.

Have I? You slander people much, you fat shit Monster?

The entire premise, really? So Koresh gets off scot free in your interpretation? He didn’t create any victims, only the state did? Amazing. But very telling.

What were the charges against him at the time the warrant was served and why the need to send in a military force to serve a warrant?

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:37 pm
Ah, the Branch Davidian returns.

Fuckwit peddo supporter makes another accusation.

So Koresh gets off scot free in your interpretation?

He paid the ultimate price but escaped his trial and court and the ordeal of punishment.

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:38 pm
Washington National ‘Cathedral’ to conduct homosexual ‘marriages.’

C.L.

10 Jan 13 at 11:38 pm
Of course, the fact you have a huge number of guns amongst the residents of the US means that the police have good reason to be ready to take fire from virtually any house they may be wanting to search.

And when mass shootings happen, the Gunitarians suggest that increasing this arms race is the answer.

It’s absurd.

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 11:39 pm
What were the charges against him at the time the warrant was served and why the need to send in a military force to serve a warrant?

The charges were over possession of illegal explosives and firearms. Generally, when such serious charges are investigated, you don’t send a girl in a pinafore sucking a popsicle.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:40 pm
And whose fault would that be? Police commanders don’t like cops getting killed on their watch.

You have smeared all police commanders as approving of the following five unprofessional, immoral, unethical and illegal behaviours:

Not cooperating with willing civilians
Lying on search warrant applications
Adding in irrelevant, ultra vires, unverified information of search warrants
Taking on a confrontational approach to siege or hostage situations
Preferring the use of force to normal police operations where use of force is only used in lawful killing or resisting a lawful order

You’re a stupid, bumbling prick, monty.

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:41 pm
You know why they do that though, don’t you dd. Because if they don’t do it that way when it comes to armed suspects, police get killed more often. And whose fault would that be? Police commanders don’t like cops getting killed on their watch.

Yea, so you send in the military and then when the people don’t get out, you dump canisters of tear gas, in the premises which should only be used outside burning the place down killing 80 odd people.

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:42 pm
oh FFS you two. Give it up!
The trolls are more interested in this topic than anyone else at this point.

dd

10 Jan 13 at 11:42 pm
You slander people much, you fat shit Monster?

You’re the cult leader in slander on this site, JC. You can’t even hold off the abuse in the same breath as you whine about being abused. You have no scope to claim victimhood on that score.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:43 pm
The cathedral hosts about 16 weddings a year. Church leaders had not received any requests for same-sex weddings ahead of Wednesday’s announcement.

That’s the whole gay shindig baloney in a nutshell. Shirtlifters can’t actually be fagged getting hitched, but a bunch of progressives are going to use a cattle prod to make sure they do.

Infidel Tiger

10 Jan 13 at 11:44 pm
The charges were over possession of illegal explosives and firearms.

That’s isn’t true. The warrant was issued based on Karesh might convert the guns to illegal guns based on some ATf investigator’s experience.

The warrant was a Minority Report.

Gab

10 Jan 13 at 11:45 pm
The police don’t search houses because they want to, Monty. They are given a job and they perform their assigned function as per the limitations in the warrant.

When police search houses for bad guys, they should always expect to ‘take fire’. Bad guys tend not to care about the warrant, whereas law abiding people tend to not shoot at police.

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 11:45 pm
Of course, the fact you have a huge number of guns amongst the residents of the US means that the police have good reason to be ready to take fire from virtually any house they may be wanting to search.

And when mass shootings happen, the Gunitarians suggest that increasing this arms race is the answer.

It’s absurd.

Stepford

You’ve been asked perhaps a dozen times now that the US constitution not only gives people the right to bear arms but also supports citizens protecting themselves from a tyrannical government or tyrannical acts by the government.

(I added the last bit in)

Now answer the question you have been asked repeatedly but refuse to answer it.

What would you do about the 2nd amendment?

Go!

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:45 pm
Hey Monty, would you support random searches of peoples houses – say up to one per year in normal circumstances – to catch people with stolen goods or drugs or what have you?

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 11:47 pm
Hey Monty, would you support random searches of peoples houses – say up to one per year in normal circumstances – to catch people with stolen goods or drugs or what have you?

Of course not, don’t be stupid. The US has laws for probable cause. Despite the Monday morning quarterbacking of conspiracy theorists, there was PC to investigate at Waco.

m0nty

10 Jan 13 at 11:50 pm
Despite the Monday morning quarterbacking of conspiracy theorists, there was PC to investigate at Waco.

No there was not, Aguleira admits so himself.

Is there any law enforcement officers you won’t slander in your slimy crusade?

.

10 Jan 13 at 11:53 pm
OK, no to random searches. I’m assuming you’re a big fan of random breath testing without ‘probable cause’ though.

What about alcohol limits for pedestrians. If your in public, cant’ be over 0.05?

What about restrictions or bans on contact sports, or extreme sports? Say UFC or base jumping?

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 11:56 pm
What about pornography for adults, or violent video games. Any restrictions there?

Poker machines?

John Mc

10 Jan 13 at 11:57 pm
I wouldn’t do anything about it, JC.

Gunitarians are, in significant number, paranoid and not quite right in the head, and even instituting a formal process (whatever that is) to see if can be changed would be enough to send many of them over the edge.

My entire complaint has been about the refusal of Gunitarian bodies such as the NRA – and the Gunitarian Catallaxy lobby – to contemplate any action at all other than more guns, more guns, more guns.

Those actions which do deserve government action (none of which, AFAIK have ever been supported by the NRA) include:

* stopping sale of high capacity magazines
* universal background checks, including for the huge percent of guns bought at “gun shows”
* continued but better funded voluntary gun buy back schemes
* reinstitution of as “assault weapon” ban (hard to define, but its arbitrariness hardly matters as long as it keeps any young nutter away from living out their mass shooting fantasy.)

There may well be other worthwhile measures – wait to see what Obama announces shortly.

steve from brisbane

10 Jan 13 at 11:59 pm
You’re the cult leader in slander on this site, JC.

Am I?

Funny because I thought it was you the very first time you attempted to put me down about my job. That was of course before your “friend” David J came here and gave the low down about you.

Recall how you suggested i was a predator, you fat lardball? It was from that time I haven’t shown one ounce of mercy toward you, if you know what i mean.

As for other stuff. I’ve already explained myself many many times.

The Left has made a a musical on the most abusive person in the history of parliament- Paul Keating. “You lot” have been devoted to him and his abuse.

There were websites devoted to making fun of Howard’s appearance- See Tim Dunlop.

Abbott has been accused of being a mad monk- obvious reference to his religion.

And you, you fat piece of lard accuse me of being abusive while supporting the most degenerate cohort of a government since the history of the federation?

You can’t even hold off the abuse in the same breath as you whine about being abused. You have no scope to claim victimhood on that score.

You mean like the pedo reference.. or non reference lardball?

I don’t cry about this stuff like you have done.

What I don’t understand is why you always keep coming back here? You have nothing to offer other than trolling. Seriously, why do you keep coming back?

JC

10 Jan 13 at 11:59 pm
monty

You are too stupid to competently use chopsticks.

Fuck off, please.

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:02 am
Seriously, why do you keep coming back?

I can’t speak for Steve of course, but the level of vitriol one can provoke here is kind of addictive.

I need a german word to describe the entertainment one gets from imagining spittle covered screens across the globe.

Grey

11 Jan 13 at 12:03 am
No, you are lying, this was admitted by ATF agent Aguleria in 1993 testimony to Congress – they mentioned the child abuse claims on the warrant.

This is on his site, and properly referenced by Kopel, whom you dismiss because you are a low information bigot with slow wit.

No there was not, Aguleira admits so himself.

No Dot, the child abuse claim was mentioned in the affidavit by Aguilera which secured the warrant, but not the warrant itself. The warrant was for charges under the ATF’s jurisdiction, namely the allegedly illegal weapons. Kopel points out that the child abuse claim was irrelevant to the ATF’s jurisdiction, which it was, but the warrant was not granted on the basis of child abuse.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 12:03 am
You stupid, ignorant pillock steve.

A lot of that has been done, and some has been repealed.

The effect on gun crime, both “normal”, drug related and spree killings, was negligible.

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:03 am
What is the point of the assault weapon ban when only some hundreds of Americans are killed by the weapons that are being banned, and 9000 Americans are being killed by handguns each year? I suspect per capita you have about as much chance of being beaten or knifed to death in Australia as you do of being killed with an ‘assault weapon’ in America.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 12:05 am
So anyway, after all that, did the ATF et al actually find any illegal firearms?

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 12:06 am
monty I know the difference between a warrant and application, others may not, don’t split hairs.

Nevertheless, he lied anyway about other matters.

An ethical law enforcement officer would not need to lie, or use unverified information.

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:06 am
Recall how you suggested i was a predator

I have called you a parasite, JC. Which you are, since your job as a speculator adds nothing to society, and you live off the profits of people who actually work for a living. That’s not the same thing as a predator. A lot further down the food chain, actually.

What I don’t understand is why you always keep coming back here? You have nothing to offer other than trolling. Seriously, why do you keep coming back?

Target practice.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
I am all for Americans keeping their guns myself.

Grey

11 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
What is the point of the assault weapon ban when only some hundreds of Americans are killed by the weapons that are being banned, and 9000 Americans are being killed by handguns each year? I

What’s the point when Obama and Holder sell illegal firearms to Mexicans?

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
monty I know the difference between a warrant and application, others may not, don’t split hairs.

I’ll take that as an admission that you were wrong then, Dot.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 12:10 am
I have called you a parasite, JC. Which you are, since your job as a speculator adds nothing to society, and you live off the profits of people who actually work for a living.

What do you do that goes beyond this? What have you created, what value have you delivered, how have you done more for anyone?

Didn’t your business fail? Wouldn’t that have involved a destruction of capital?

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 12:11 am
Stepford

You really believe that if the government institutes any of those policies it would reduce the potential of another school shooting?

You really think that , do you?

I wouldn’t do anything about it, JC.

then why talk as though it doesn’t exist?

Gunitarians are, in significant number, paranoid and not quite right in the head, and even instituting a formal process (whatever that is) to see if can be changed would be enough to send many of them over the edge.

I think you’re confused. The only risk is if the government attempted to brake with the constitution and tried to confiscate guns. You’re watching too much of Piers Morgan.

My entire complaint has been about the refusal of Gunitarian bodies such as the NRA – and the Gunitarian Catallaxy lobby – to contemplate any action at all other than more guns, more guns, more guns.

That’s not exactly true is it? The argument has been that controls won’t work as they haven’t done to reduce homicide rates here with guns.

Those actions which do deserve government action (none of which, AFAIK have ever been supported by the NRA) include:

Okay lets go through them

* stopping sale of high capacity magazines

they are you idiot.

* universal background checks, including for the huge percent of guns bought at “gun shows”

No probs with that.

* continued but better funded voluntary gun buy back schemes

Are you stupid? Do you understand how markets work.

If the government sets the price to high you could buy a gun from smith&wessie, hand it to the government and make a turn. If they set the price too low, no one will sell them the gun. it wouldn’t work, you idiot.

* reinstitution of as “assault weapon” ban (hard to define, but its arbitrariness hardly matters as long as it keeps any young nutter away from living out their mass shooting fantasy.)

they are.

There may well be other worthwhile measures – wait to see what Obama announces shortly.

Why would we do that? He hasn’t had a thought for the past 4 years, so i don’t expect him to do better this time around. The Kenyan never disappoints.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:15 am
Which you are, since your job as a speculator adds nothing to society, and you live off the profits of people who actually work for a living.

The fact that you espouse such ignorance and refuse to admit ideas like this are why you failed at economics make me nearly shed a tear.

People work for a living, and sell shares to JC and buy them back at the wrong time?

It’s about market efficiency. People running nurseries etc shouldn’t try to short FPO shares in a continuous market…they ought to go back to watering Zinnias and stooging old ladies on chicken poo.

Without speculators, there is no liquidity and you have to go OTC for transactions.

The Australian water market, for example, has huge brokerage of up to what I estimate to be about 10% (based on recent overflow offers of upper Murray water to Murrumbidgee irrigators).

That market needs market makers.

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:15 am
I’ll take that as an admission that you were wrong then, Dot.

I wasn’t wrong monty. You have given Aguleira a pass and smeared all commanding police officers so you can smear JC as a Branch Davidian.

All because he implied such an incident was putative to him losing faith in Government.

Why does this offend you so much?

You won’t even touch Ruby Ridge.

.

11 Jan 13 at 12:17 am
Gunitarians are, in significant number, paranoid and not quite right in the head

Gunitarian bodies

Gunitarian Catallaxy lobby

the Gunitarians suggest

Gretchen, stop trying to make ~~fetch~~ Gunitarian happen. It’s not going to happen.

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 12:19 am
I have called you a parasite, JC. Which you are, since your job as a speculator adds nothing to society, and you live off the profits of people who actually work for a living. That’s not the same thing as a predator. A lot further down the food chain, actually.

Call me anything you want, you fat loser, but you shouldn’t go crying if you end up getting hurt like you’ve done in the past.

Target practice?

Yea, that would be hard lardball.

Monster , we own your mind. The first thing you do in your lonely life is get up, eat and then see what’s being said here.

Pay back those investors you loser.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:20 am
Call me anything you want

Gladly.

You shall be known as JC the brainwashed cultist, JC the wacky Waco whacko, JC from D Branch, JC of the Trinity and other such appellations to remind us all of your glorious political awakening. Splendid.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 12:31 am
You have nowhere else to go, do you Monty.

You do have family I assume. Do they read this?

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 12:39 am
Lol

But don’t go crying to Sinc when it comes back at you twice as hard.

But seriously fat boy, why do you keep coming back here? You aren’t exactly a shining light in expressing opinions and all you seem to want to do is get into scraps and abuse the thread owners like Steve who you think won’t fight back (because he’s a gentle soul).

You lonely sad coward Monster.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:40 am
You have nowhere else to go, do you Monty.

You do have family I assume. Do they read this?

He doesn’t seem to be liked much by people that know him, if his “friend” David J is anything to go by.

DavidJ knows him by all appearances and he was all complimentary towards Monster. Was he?

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:42 am
But don’t go crying to Sinc when it comes back at you twice as hard.

This from the clown who continually cries to Sinc to ban posters who disagree with him. Cries rather pitifully and constantly. Cries like a heartbroken tween, mascara running onto her favourite Bieber picture. Typical JC, dishes it out but can’t take it.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 12:45 am
Monster

I don’t cry to sinc. I ask him to get rid of useless losers like you and others. I do it openly. It’s not because they are upsetting me in some personal way. You/they are mostly useless protoplasm who are simply a waste of space.

You on the other hand go crying if your feelings are hurt.

As I said, we own you.

lonely loser.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:55 am
But I keep asking you, why do you come here? What’s the point of you posting comments? Is it about craving attention?

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:58 am
I don’t cry to sinc. I ask him to get rid of useless losers like you and others. I do it openly. It’s not because they are upsetting me in some personal way.

You cry to him openly, like a spoilt child sniffling and tugging on his mother’s skirt, or a teacher’s pet crying to teacher.

You cry because you are sad that this isn’t always your own personal Waco compound, where you are treated like a god by sycophantic admirers. Sometimes reality comes crashing in, like an Abrams tank through the walls of a church.

You readily play the victim card, bleating and pleading that your enemies should be punished by authority. Pitiful behaviour by a self-described libertarian.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 1:06 am
That’s just truly pathetic, Monty. It shows when you’re trying too hard.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 1:07 am
Well hey John Mc, maybe I should just call someone fat a thousand times.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 1:09 am
You cry to him openly, like a spoilt child sniffling and tugging on his mother’s skirt, or a teacher’s pet crying to teacher.

just sad.

You cry because you are sad that this isn’t always your own personal Waco compound, where you are treated like a god by sycophantic admirers.

That’s seriously pathetic Fat boy.

Sometimes reality comes crashing in, like an Abrams tank through the walls of a church.

It’s always the fat stuff with you isn’t it?

You readily play the victim card, bleating and pleading that your enemies should be punished by authority.

Punished? I would prefer you and the other morons outta here ASAP. But it’s not my site. That’s no secret.

Your opinion is basically worthless and it takes valuable space. The worst of it is when you’ve had a sugar high and go after people like Steve K.. your eternal better.

Pitiful behaviour by a self-described libertarian.

Why? Because I think you should be booted outta here? That’s not pitiful, most people here feel that way about you because you add no value. In fact it would be delightful if you were thrown out and banned. You really don’t understand what libertarianism is , do you?

Consider our right… the right not to read the crappy latest leftwing talking points from a lonely fat guy.

But I keep asking you, why do you keep comment here, Monster. Honest question.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:20 am
Well hey John Mc, maybe I should just call someone fat a thousand times.

No, you go around smearing people, you disgusting dickhead. Its why you were thrown off here recently.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:21 am
Yes. Asking a question as to why access to automatic weapons is something worthwhile is a sure sign of homosexuality. Wanker.

That had nothing to do with today’s argument, but rather was based on years of posts by you which betray a homo-erotic fixation, penis breath.

Abu Chowdah

11 Jan 13 at 1:22 am
Confirmed: Greens/Labor responsible for Tasmanian bushfires.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:24 am
I told you JC, target practice. Your aim is so bad it’s laughable.

Libertarianism is not whining to chat mods to ban free speech.

m0nty

11 Jan 13 at 1:29 am
Your right to free speech is not impinged if you were rightly thrown off the site, Monster, you fucking idiot.

This is a private blog and you’re here at the governors pleasure. It never sinks in, does it?

You support Finkelstien anyway.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:34 am
Gunitarians are, in significant number, paranoid and not quite right in the head, and even instituting a formal process (whatever that is) to see if can be changed would be enough to send many of them over the edge.

My entire complaint has been about the refusal of Gunitarian bodies such as the NRA – and the Gunitarian Catallaxy lobby – to contemplate any action at all other than more guns, more guns, more guns.

Not quite right in the head? Humans are strange, we have many strange pursuits, like me chasing strange ideas like the importance of body grounding to maintain electron levels. I have absolutely no idea why people love guns and those people have no idea why I chase strange ideas. That doesn’t mean people like me and them are not quite right in the head, that is just what human beings do.

The gun lobby needs to appreciate that most people do not like the idea of more guns. Neither do I because more guns is not actually addressing the root cause of the violence. The problem cannot be too many guns though because many other countries have similiar levels of gun ownership.

Guns are the tip of the iceberg. As one physicist wrote on his blog, the really big terror will be when some disgruntled science graduates decide to go postal. A smart educated man in say chemistry could create havoc that no gun wielding killer could ever hope to emulate. You have been warned, this will happen, Loughner was the first example but he did not use his training to help his violence. Imagine what would happen if a science student found out how to create airborne toxins and release that into a theatre. Guns won’t help then, nothing will help. Guns to prevent future attacks is a vicious cycle, the smart ones will find others means than guns to do their dirty work. The problem is what drives these people to violence, we need to think more carefully about that.

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 1:35 am
Confirmed: Greens/Labor responsible for Tasmanian bushfires.

Shocking isn’t it? just Shocking

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:38 am
Shocking isn’t it? just Shocking

JC I knew a volunteer fire brigade dude who told me he stopped that when the Greenies stopped back burning. The Greenies have this incredibly fucking stupid idea about some natural order of things, as if that ever existed. Stuff the native fauna, burn it down, replant with stuff that don’t burn so easily. Change the whole bloody ecology as far as I’m concerned because we’ve already done that so much it don’t matter anymore.

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 1:41 am
JohnH

These scum are literally wrecking peoples lives now. It’s a dangerous totalitarian misanthropic group.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:46 am
A smart educated man in say chemistry could create havoc that no gun wielding killer could ever hope to emulate.

A dumb uneducated man caused the greatest act of terrorism in the US – now the second greatest due to some smart educated religious fanatics – via chemistry i.e. McVeigh.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 1:50 am
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) – Authorities say a Florida Panhandle man has been arrested after he tried to rob a convenience store with a cattle prod but was thwarted by a clerk with a gun.

The Leon County Sheriff’s Office says 26-year-old Lance Tomberlin went into a store just outside Tallahassee on January 2, produced the cattle prod and demanded money from the clerk. Officials say he shocked the clerk several times before the clerk pulled a handgun.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:51 am
How morally adrift and sick is American society?

This much:

Bill Clinton named ‘Father of the Year’.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:53 am
He certainly has a positive attitude to women that could provide an example for his daughter. Maybe give her a few tips on how to ‘work’ your way to the top.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 1:55 am
Home page of National Father’s Day Council:

Father of the Year Award winners…

2007

John Edwards

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:57 am
The gun lobby needs to appreciate that most people do not like the idea of more guns.

NRA has a higher approval rating than Obama and the media

Fifty-four percent of Americans said they have a favorable opinion of the NRA according to a USA Today/Gallup Poll conducted Dec. 19-22.

A Gallup poll released earlier this year showed that Americans’ distrust of the media hit a new high with 60 percent saying they had little or no trust in the mass media while 40 percent said they had a great deal or fair amount of trust.

Barack Obama’s popularity falls short of each with a Huffington Post poll showing the president’s average favorability at 52.3 percent.

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 1:58 am
It does really make one wonder how Chelsea feels about dad dipping his cigar in an intern before she rimmed out his butt (all on the public record, Kenneth Starr et al), before heading home to dinner with her and Hill.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 1:59 am
Tim Blair says welcome to the New Politics

If the Greens approve of bogus press releases, I guess they’ll endorse this.

Cold-Hands

11 Jan 13 at 1:59 am
Obama’s rating hasn’t been above 50% for a long, long time either.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 2:01 am
Obama’s rating hasn’t been above 50% for a long, long time either.

To be fair, RCP has him at 53.3%. IDKY. But just as I have to accept that I’m currently in the minority on that one, the gun-grabbers and other assorted hoplophobes must accept that they’re in the minority on that issue.

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 2:05 am
He’s recently began a climb, I don’t know why.

But for around the last two years he’s sat between 40-50% for pretty much all of it.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 2:09 am
No attribution of ownership for the fake Green press release is given but the scary thing is that the ‘policies’ shown seem in accord with the Green’s philosophy, just (like all good satire) turned up to eleven.

Cold-Hands

11 Jan 13 at 2:09 am
~~ownership~~ read ‘authorship’.

Cold-Hands

11 Jan 13 at 2:11 am
From greens.org.au/policies/environment/environmental-principles:

Principles
The Australian Greens believe that: […]
6. Human induced climate change poses the greatest threat to our world, and urgent and sustained local, national and global action is required in this critical decade to 2020 to ensure a safe climate.
7. Climate change will increase the intensity and frequency of bushfires; scientifically-based, ecologically appropriate use of fire is an important means to protect biodiversity and manage habitat effectively.

See, the Australian Greens cannot distinguish between principles and pious assertions predicated on a pseudo-scientific hoax.

Deadman

11 Jan 13 at 6:04 am
Wow. Some people wasted an entire evening responding to monty and SfB.

Blogstrop

11 Jan 13 at 6:34 am
Greens

The only good Greens are Soylent Greens.

Septimus

11 Jan 13 at 6:39 am
The Greens’ lethal idiocy in maximising the damage caused by the Tassie bushfire is now apparent to everyone in Australia:

Mr Arnold applied in August 2011 for a permit to spring burn some of the build-up of weeds and scrub undergrowth beneath blue gums covering Steele’s Hill that runs the length of his now-blackened 1000ha property.

He said it would have been a nice and steady little fire after winter that slowly crept through the bush, destroying the high fuel load.

He was knocked back because Steele’s Hill and its blue gums contained a wedgetail eagle’s nest and was classed as foraging habitat for the endangered swift parrot.

“I took that to mean that the bird might call in for lunch occasionally,” a frustrated Mr Arnold said yesterday.

“But I look at the devastation there today and ask where the Greens are? But they are more concerned about the pattern on their cappuccino in Salamanca than what has happened here on our farms this week.”

I’d say that’s the end of the Greens’ hopes of having Mad Dog Brown’s nominated Senate replacement (Peter Whish-Wilson) elected this year.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 7:13 am
I’m sorry for the individuals Tom, as a good 40% of Tasmanians actually want to live in a productive country, yet they can’t / don’t stop the other 60%.

Unfortunately the people of Tasmania made an informed choice by voting for Labor/Green alliances consistently over the past 20 years, and are now reaping what they sowed.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 8:01 am
Guns are the tip of the iceberg. As one physicist wrote on his blog, the really big terror will be when some disgruntled science graduates decide to go postal. A smart educated man in say chemistry could create havoc that no gun wielding killer could ever hope to emulate.

Isn’t that what happened with the Sarin gas in the subways of Japan?

Token

11 Jan 13 at 8:22 am
Unfortunately the people of Tasmania made an informed choice by voting for Labor/Green alliances consistently over the past 20 years…

No, a misinformed choice.

Deadman

11 Jan 13 at 8:24 am
Just how murderous and intellectually bankrupt are the Nazi Greenfilth?

Worse, much worse, than Hitler.

Around the world, the poor and helpless starve, children die in their thousands, entirely due to Greenfilth policies. Policies they love…. ‘for the children’.

‘For the children’ does not mean what the Greenfilth want you to think it does. Judging by the empirical outcomes of the policies these murdering totalitarians press for, it’s their code-phrase to expresses their lust to starve, abort and generally slaughter as many children as possible, especially if they are black, yellow and brown of course.

Mk50 of Brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 8:31 am
I went to bed just after the start of that shitight last night and woke up to see mOron’s, You can’t even hold off the abuse in the same breath as you whine about being abused. Still laughing.

Stay off the sugar mOron, bad for the anger levels and the arteries. Doughnuts have sugar.

Tiny Dancer

11 Jan 13 at 8:31 am
No, a misinformed choice.

Quite so.

Either way, they now have the insanity of the policies of the Greens laid out in front of them, will this change the way they vote?

Token

11 Jan 13 at 8:35 am
Just when you thought it wasn’t possible for Fairfax to sink any lower as a source of “news”, the top story at ShakeMyHead.com this morning is a bizarre piece of unquestioned IMF propaganda:

AUSTRALIA’S most needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments, an international study has found.

The International Monetary Fund examined 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.

It identifies only two periods of Australian “fiscal profligacy” in recent years, both during John Howard’s term in office – in 2003 at the start of the mining boom and during his final years in office between 2005 and 2007.

The Rudd government’s stimulus spending during the financial crisis doesn’t rate as profligate because the measure makes allowance for spending needed to stabilise the economy.

The Whitlam Labor government of 1972 to 1975 also escapes censure.

For the record, Howard-Costello’s final budget, 2006-07, spent $219 billion. If you believe Shane Wand, the 2012-13 budget set out to spend $376 billion — an increase of 72% with a yet-to-be-announced deficit after a promised surplus of $1.5 billion — achieved with $262 billion government debt at last count (up from zero).

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 8:36 am
The forecast top temperature in Sydney today is 33C, but it’s a RED ALERT FOR FREAK WEATHER!!!, shrieks ShakeMyHead.com weather girl Petra Hannam.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 8:43 am
To a British empiricist, European metaphysical idealism illustrates that marvellous human ability to follow a truly stupid idea to the bitter end, no matter how much it hurts.

MK50, it’s a pity then that British empiricism has died quite a death within the ‘social theory’ strands of British (and Australian) universities. Since their love affair with the Leninist Althusser (a madman who murdered his wife) in the 60′s and 70′s to the Post-Structuralism and Post-Modernism of more recent French-influenced ‘Theory’ (with a single designation and a capital T), Neo-Marxism in various iterations has ruled. Now of course it is deep Green demolitionist in its flavour.

“New Institutionalism”, m0nty? I would suspect this to be a re-working of the Althusserian ‘ideological state apparatus’ meme if it is in the hands of the current theorists seeking a reversion to something supposedly ‘empirical’. Or has sociology decided to return to its properly empirical foundations and allow Simmel, Weber, Parsons, Durkheim and even Karl Popper back in? I doubt it.

Good comments from Viva and MK50 on the way in which thought processes can shape polities – and policies.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 8:47 am
The forecast top temperature in Sydney today is 33C, but it’s a RED ALERT FOR FREAK WEATHER!!!, shrieks ShakeMyHead.com weather girl Petra Hannam.

Oh, don’t they give you the tom tits, Tom?

Exasperation is very bad for me this early in the morning.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 8:52 am
AUSTRALIA’S most needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam

It is critical for the left to keep the international lefty network of organisations excreting crap like this to sustain the mass lefty delusion.

If their followers questioned the abject stupidity of this statement for 5 seconds they would never vote for the left ever again.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 8:54 am
(up from zero).

I take the zero point at +$40b surplus which they inherited, so that would make it $302b squandered.
But, hey whats $40b amongst labor/union slush funds.

BTW, you got inside info? Coming soon.

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 8:55 am
It was only a matter of time, Rudi. Fairfax has become the global news industry’s laughing stock. It won’t see the year out in its current form.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 9:00 am
You can see why this guy left Channel 10. He must’ve vomitted every time he listened to the tospots from the Project…

Self-promotion in the workplace has been around for decades but was usually confined to irritating wankers who were laughed at by everyone, including the boss. Now it’s become institutionalised.

What damages us is not just the vomit-inducing self-indulgence – it’s young people being encouraged to spend less time on productivity and skill and more time on fostering “relationships” with those who can help their careers.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 9:03 am
ShakeMyHead.com

LOL. Who was the clever person that came up with this?

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 9:03 am
CL, what do they say in a homosexual ‘marriage’?

‘I now pronounce you pitcher and catcher?’

Asked my gay cousins this once and they just thought the whole idea giggle-worthy, a simple case of exploitative abuse of homosexuals by the left for their political gain.

They then had great fun inventing a ‘service’ (from which the above line comes). Bloody hilarious, of course we were all half cut but so what.

I love our big family get-togethers.

Mk50 of Brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 9:09 am
Unlike normal income tax, which retards the incentive to work, a lump sum beauty tax would have no effect on the decision to work because the beautiful would have to pay it regardless.

The government’s own Henry taxation review lends tacit support to a beauty tax by way of reference to land tax, which is efficient because “land cannot move to escape the tax”. The same principle applies to looks. Good looking people cannot easily undermine their attractiveness — and they certainly wouldn’t want to, given the massive advantages good looks bestow.

Of course, the same principle could argue for taxes on intelligent people — who can earn income with far less time and effort than their dimmer peers — but intelligence, unlike land or beauty, is easy to hide.

Well, it’s still the Silly Season and this piece in today’s OZ is obviously intended to be silly (I hope and trust). But academics have been paid our taxes to ‘research’ the advantages of ‘beauty’ and then get envious.

Burp.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 9:10 am
Gab, #ShakeMyHead is an SMS/Twitter/web meme. I stole it from puppy boy.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 9:11 am
The greens, in this particular instance MK50, will just rebrand it ‘ethically sourced’ bio fuel. Locking poor countries out of any market.

Dan

11 Jan 13 at 9:11 am
Oh, thanks Tom. I thought it may have been you.

——————–

Tim Blair points to two new Greens’ policies.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/welcome_to_the_new_politics/

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 9:14 am
Asked my gay cousins this once and they just thought the whole idea giggle-worthy, a simple case of exploitative abuse of homosexuals by the left for their political gain.

A gay friend who has been in a monogamous relationship for 20+ years puts it down to divorce lawyers salivating at the chance to get their claws into a new client base.

He and his partner have all the protection they need through the laws in place now.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 9:16 am
It won’t see the year out in its current form.

I agree.

FAIRFAX Media’s share price rallied yesterday as the market focused on possible break-up moves flowing from John Singleton and Mark Carnegie’s decision to join forces with Gina Rinehart to agitate for change at the publishing and broadcasting company.

Now if only we could get that right wing ALPBC on a more even keel before the elections.

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 9:18 am
The SMH really are wetting themselves aren’t they. “Natures wrath” is the caption under a dust storm photo. Gaia must be pretty pissed with us. Better sacrifice a couple of virgins to protect the crops.

H B Bear

11 Jan 13 at 9:18 am
Urban Dictionary tells all, Gab. But I’d guess you knew that.

I’d say to all, be careful. Shake your head too much and your brains can fall out. Particularly if you shake it agreeing with leftie blogs.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 9:20 am
Perhaps that should be ‘sacrifice a couple of Greens’ to appease Gaia.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 9:21 am
But I’d guess you knew that

No, actually I didn’t. I thought it may have been our clever Tom.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 9:22 am
“MK50, it’s a pity then that British empiricism has died quite a death within the ‘social theory’ strands of British (and Australian) universities.”

Hey, yo mind yo mouth Lizzie, empiricism/positivism was dead in the water after Popper published Logic der Forschung in 1935. The modern madness got a leg up as a result of the deadly boredom of philosophy in the fifties driven by logical empiricism (inspired by Wittgenstein Mk I) and linguistic philosophy from Wittgenstein Mk II.

Get with in Man! Go Conjectures and Refutations.

Poor Old Rafe

11 Jan 13 at 9:29 am
Just awoke Da Hairy Ape with news of the ‘beauty tax’. He’s sleeping late this week.

I would pay more tax than you under this regime, I told him.

Bring it on, he said.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 9:33 am
AUSTRALIA’S most needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments, an international study has found.

I can’t believe that anyone would write such utter bullshit (with a straight face), much less expect people to take it seriously.

FFS, who are these morons?

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 9:34 am
Thanks Rafe. Yes, the philosophers had been busy with the undermining beforehand, I concur.

Timing is not everything but it is important, as your link shows re Popper’s contributions. I will consider this interesting piece in more detail when the day is not so young and ABC4Kids is less intrusive.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 9:42 am
I can’t believe that anyone would write such utter bullshit

Had a glance through the “report“, from which the IMF distances itself btw, but cannot find any reference stating Howard years of “needlessly wasteful spending”.
Perhaps someone well versed in Bohn’s approach to fiscal sustainability econometrics could enlighten me?

Maybe something in Tables 7 8 or 9?

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 9:52 am
Now listen up, stupid socialists. This is how you run a government. I received a small, plain paper, black and white 80 gsm insert in with the water bill. No 4-page glossy brochures here.

It says, (and I quote)

Your water bill is reduced this quarter because the Newman Government has delivered on it’s election commitment to reduce SEQ household water bills by providing a one-off water $80 rebate.

In line with the Government’s commitment, the three bulk water companies set up under the previous GOvernment will be reduced to a single entity and the QLD Water Commission will be abolished on 1 January 2013, saving Queenslanders millions of dollars. All this will go towards the cost of reducing your water bill.

Let me highlight the key points:
- sticking to the election commitments (there will be no 20%+ water price increases under the government I lead)
- sacking useless public servants, pointless departments
- returning the costs savings to the public.

Now $80 per bill doesn’t seem like much. But multiply $80 x millions of bills and all of a sudden you’ve got consumers with extra discretionary cash in their pocket, which they can spend on whatever they like instead of paying to fix the broken windows of desalination plants and useless pipelines.

Reduce government spending, return cash to people. This is how you get economies moving again.

brc

11 Jan 13 at 10:02 am
I can hear it now. I call the ATO and get put on hold, and muzak will be “Everybody’s beautiful”.

Keith

11 Jan 13 at 10:06 am
monty admits he lost the argument at about 12.31 am

.

11 Jan 13 at 10:07 am
You know, the fake-greens press release page could easily become an internet meme the likes of fluffy cats and tourist guy. Anyeone with some mad photoshop skillz should do up their own version and circulate it around.

Pretty soon you’d be hard pressed to take any* Greens press release seriously.

*Nobody should take them seriously, but still.

brc

11 Jan 13 at 10:07 am
Now $80 per bill doesn’t seem like much. But multiply $80 x millions of bills and all of a sudden you’ve got consumers with extra discretionary cash in their pocket, which they can spend on whatever they like instead of paying to fix the broken windows of desalination plants and useless pipelines.

Victoria’s bills will be going up a fair bit next year due to the desalination plant. From what I’ve read, desalination isn’t overly good for the environment, something which the ALP somewhat pride themselves on (in reality, that is not the case).

Andrew

11 Jan 13 at 10:28 am
From what I’ve read, desalination isn’t overly good for the environment, something which the ALP somewhat pride themselves on (in reality, that is not the case).

Quite so.

Desalination depends on a shite load of electricity. Where does that electricity come from in Vic? Brown Coal.

The alternative to the plant was another dam on the Thomson which would have had zero emissions (and probably provided hyro electric power).

Token

11 Jan 13 at 10:36 am
Desalination is energy intensive and costly. If the private sector can do it and turn a profit, well done to them.

The problem is planning and environmental regulation make it nearly impossible.

The same with dams, and the political resistance to them.

We’ve built several desal plants, for fallacious reasons (such as permanent drought). We simply could have built more dams which would have slowed the depletion of the other dams, some of which are back down to 50% capacity. It may have been dual use and generated power (perhaps to power some desal plants!). The problem with desal is how energy intensive they are and at the same time we have a ban on nuclear, the MRET and carbon tax.

The Government run plants have ridiculously high operational and maintenance costs.

.

11 Jan 13 at 10:37 am
Every time I think Fauxfacts has hit bottom, it exceeds its last effort again:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-hoax-we-had-to-have-20130110-2cix8.html

“This week Australians face an emergency so catastrophic that we have not yet imagined a name for it. It is so unprecedented that the Bureau of Meteorology has had to invent a new category for it. The 50 to 52 degrees air mass over Australia is the hottest on record, and worldwide, 2013 is predicted to be the hottest recorded.

With bushfires raging and lives and property lost, you might think that people who seek to put the prevention of such environmental catastrophes on the public agenda would be applauded. Instead, they are criminalised.

But to charge him (Moylan) with a criminal offence would be utterly immoral.

On Tuesday activist Jonathan Moylan was spectacularly successful in getting the issue of prevention on our newspapers’ front pages. Moylan pulled off an elegant hoax. By issuing a fake media release saying ANZ had pulled its $1.2 billion loan from Whitehaven Coal mines on ethical grounds, he disrupted markets and invited public scrutiny of an industry that is driving the climate change that has led to a new category of emergency.”
————-
I started counting the number of errors, misrepresentations and outright lies in this article, but gave up at 20.

This airhead (Katherine Wilson) thinks Moylan is a hero because the BOM made up a new colour for the weather map – one they ended up not having to use because, as usual, its forecasts were wrong.

The stupid, it hurts.

johanna

11 Jan 13 at 10:43 am
To a British empiricist, European metaphysical idealism illustrates that marvellous human ability to follow a truly stupid idea to the bitter end, no matter how much it hurts.

Hume and British empiricism are vastly over-rated. If you’re opposed to relativism, neither of those provide safe harbour.

dover_beach

11 Jan 13 at 10:44 am
Quite so.

Desalination depends on a shite load of electricity. Where does that electricity come from in Vic? Brown Coal.

There is also a lot of waste from desalination and much of it is dumped out to sea. I am pretty sure it was Tim Flannery’s advice to build a desalination plant in Victoria so we can all blame him for yet another failure.

Andrew

11 Jan 13 at 10:45 am
Anyeone with some mad photoshop skillz should do up their own version and circulate it around.

Pretty soon you’d be hard pressed to take any* Greens press release seriously.
*Nobody should take them seriously, but still.

The Australian Greens
Media Release 11.01.2013

Greens Drop Death Duties Policy
Today the Australian Greens officially withdraw the policy of taxing citizen’s wealth after they die. The Australian Greens have come to the conclusion that for the sake of our children’s future and our children’s childrens future we can’t wait for you to die before we can get our hands on your inheritance.

From today The Australian Greens will be pursuing a policy of “Unrealised Wealth Redistribution of the living before they die tax”. Under this policy all citizens will have their net wealth calculated at today’s market value then modelled to account for inflation and projected to the value at the time of the national life expectancy rate. This value will be taxed at a nominal 65%.

The Australian Greens believe that the nations best assets are our Children and our Children’s Children and our Children’s, Children’s Children and deserve the current generation’s selfish wealth hoarding assets now and not when they die.

Authorised By Tubbsie & SHY

Splatacrobat

11 Jan 13 at 10:47 am
That’s some excellent work you’ve done there, Splat. It’s a wittle scwary how well you emulate the Greens though..

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 10:52 am
Desalination depends on a shite load of electricity. Where does that electricity come from in Vic? Brown Coal.

The desalination plants are the poster child of circular logic, idiotic thinking and action before thought.

- The problem was that Australia was in a drought.
- The reason was given that this was because of climate change, and ‘the dams and river systems will never fill again’.
- The cause of climate change, which causes endless drought, was from co2 emissions, principally coal-fired power stations
- Another outcome of climate change was high sea level increases, with scary estimates like 7, 20, 50 and 100m before the end of the century.

So, to fix a problem caused by climate change, they build desalination plants, all at sea level, powered by the very electricity generation that causes climate change.

If all the climate change hysteria was correct, then building the desalination plants contributes directly to the sea level rise that would eventually destroy them, thus making us even more vulnerable to the perpetual drought caused by the desalination plants.

Of course, if the Labor party really believed climate change was a problem, they would have suggested windmill powered solar desalination plants built at least 50m above sea level.

But all that alarmist hoo-ey is nothing when it comes to granting fat union contracts to take a serious bit out of public finances.

Climate change is no more of a crisis than the spread of Gangnam style dancing. But the alarmism and arm-waving sure has ushered in some gigantic wealth transfers to special interest groups.

brc

11 Jan 13 at 11:01 am
Token, with the second comment of this open thread, asked the question…..

Which Lefty will be-clown themselves most on this new thread?

m0nty obviously sniffed a challenge, soiled his pants and took out the gold.

harrys on the boat

11 Jan 13 at 11:01 am
On the desalination plants, here in WA, we not only built one (under the previous Labor government believe it or not), but it was so successful we built a second.

Now I’m sure we’re paying for it through the bills and the construction was probably over-budget, but both appear to be doing a good job. I may be wrong, behind the scenes it could be a complete clusterfuck.

But a question is why do we have 2 up and running when the rest of the country couldn’t organise a piss up in a desal plant.

harrys on the boat

11 Jan 13 at 11:08 am
“This week Australians face an emergency so catastrophic that we have not yet imagined a name for it…”

Yeah, we have.

Summer.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:17 am
“Natures wrath” is the caption under a dust storm photo.

Remember when lefties used to delight in making fun of American evangelicals who linked hurricanes to the wrath of God etc?

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:18 am
Well said, BRC.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 11:19 am
Swear to God…

I had to read Tim Blair’s Green press release twice before I got the joke. I just thought it was an actual statement of Green policy.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:20 am
?

Test

11 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
Aguilera told the judge: “I know based on my training and experience that an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle practically identical to the M-16 rifle. [...] I have been involved in many cases where defendants, following a relatively simple process, convert AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to fully automatic rifles of the nature of the M-16. [...] Often times templates, milling machines, lathes and instruction guides are used by the converter.

When I was a chocko, I was shown how to convert an SLR from semi-auto to full auto by inserting a broken matchstick into a particular spot in the mechanism. Only problem was that when the trigger was pulled, it sometimes failed to stop shooting until the mag was completely empty. And it was a guaranteed way to be put on a charge.

So in theory, the ATF could have justified the raid if Koresh was found to have bought a box of matches.

boy on a bike

11 Jan 13 at 11:23 am
Serious question: will Nicola Roxon’s new sex abuse investigation unit look into what and when the ALP knew about the activities of the three child rapists it chose to lead the party in Queensland and the Northern Territory?

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:24 am
Greg Hunt at The Drum: No doubt: Coalition government will scrap carbon tax.

Readers respond:

Reading this just consolidates my overwhelming dispair that Australians might vote in this crazy, backward thinking party.

Australia is in a really good place at the moment with a leader who just goes from strength to strength. Gillard is respected worldwide – we have much to be proud of in her. Her climate policy (helped by the Greens) is the envy of the modern world. Abbott and his loony party will take us all right back to bottom of the pile again. We also now have temporary placement in the UN,we have sooooo much to be proud of – thanks to Gillard and the Labour pary.

Here in Qld we have Abbott’s twin – Newman, and he is making one hell of a mess.Be warned Australia!

———————————–

Mr Hunt, what you have written full of bluster, banalities and blather.

And please stop using the word “mandate”. You seem to think that your side has a so-called mandate for everything and that the elected government has no right to govern.

Mr Hunt, you have left school now. Please try to enter the world of adult thinking.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:30 am
The desalination plants are the poster child of circular logic, idiotic thinking and action before thought.

Nope. the desal plants were perfectly rational from a Liars Party stance.

It was a make work scheme for their union movement and it offered jobs to unionized personnel.

There were reports that union slugs working on the plants were receiving $1000 on days that it rained.

It was a win win for them.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:33 am
Biden wants to ban unregulated private sales of firearms.

That means if you sell your rifle to a neighbour you’ll be Koreshed.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:35 am
HOTB,
We need 2 desal plants coz its never going to rain again, and Da glimat change is going to cause massive earthquakes that will destroy all the water in our Artesian basins and, of course, Shaddup, we ask the questions.

Woolfe

11 Jan 13 at 11:39 am
Courtesy of TROVE, 37,654 articles on dust storms in Australian newspapers prior to 1954.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:42 am
The anti-gun demagoguery that is being whipped up by the Dems in the US is quite incredible. Here is Gov. Cuomo shaming himself. (Go to the 1.12 min mark.)

dover_beach

11 Jan 13 at 11:45 am
The stupid, it hurts.

The #4 “news” story at ShakeMyHead.com today is an opinion piece by a radical political activist student at Swinburne University.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 11:48 am
Global warming charged with multiple counts of causing, aiding and abetting, the “Holy City of Jerusalem['s]…worst snowstorm in 20 years”. Pleads innocent. Has retained the services of Gloria Allred.

dover_beach

11 Jan 13 at 11:50 am
Dover, at 1:12 he’s still introducing VIPs.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:53 am
Hey, get a load of the Kenyan’s new treas sec’s bio

Lew has a reputation as a New York liberal who started early in politics. As a 12-year-old, he campaigned for the anti-war Congressman Eugene McCarthy during the 1968 presidential primary season. Years later he was a senior policy adviser for House Speaker Tip O’Neill, Jr.
“I grew up in many ways on the Hill in Mr. O’Neill’s office,” Lew told The New York Times.
Another big political influence on Lew: Paul Wellstone, who was Lew’s advisor at Carleton College before he became a liberal Democratic senator from Minnesota. Wellstone got Lew an internship working for Rep. Bella Abzug (D-N.Y.).
During the last decade he worked outside of Washington, first as an executive vice president at New York University, then managing director and chief operating officer at Citigroup Global Wealth Management.

He doesn’t care anymore.. He’s basically hiring outright communists.

He dick was politically active at 12

He worked for two well known commies. Wellstone and the lunatic bella Abzug. Abzug was a total nutcase.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:54 am
OK, I got it.

Cuomo really comes across to me as being a few sangers short of a picnic.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 11:56 am
The #4 “news” story at ShakeMyHead.com today is an opinion piece by a radical political activist student at Swinburne University.

Lol…fair dinkum… If you took a job as CEO how the fuck would you repair Fairfax?

I reckon you just fire everyone and start again after 6 months.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:57 am
“This week Australians face an emergency so catastrophic that we have not yet imagined a name for it…”

Wow. What was the death toll?

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 12:01 pm
“This week Australians face an emergency so catastrophic that we have not yet imagined a name for it…”

Let’s call it eggnog.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 12:08 pm
Communist Eric Holder:

Gun Owners Should ‘Cower’ in Shame Like Smokers.

So I guess he’ll be disarming his bodyguards.

After all, guns are useless for self-defence.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 12:22 pm
Or has sociology decided to return to its properly empirical foundations and allow Simmel, Weber, Parsons, Durkheim and even Karl Popper back in? I doubt it.

I was not using Popper as a vanguard for any ‘philosophical empiricism’ here, Rafe (I do know better and your link is additionally helpful) – just mentioning his name as someone whose philosophical thought needs to come up for consideration in any retreat from post-modernism and back to an earlier sociological ferment in the discussion of ideas, ideology and the philosophies of science – each of the theorists I mention has very different ideological roots anyway, and Dover Beach additionally points out that the early British ‘empirical’ philosophers have limitations too regarding relativism.

I think MK50 and Viva and I were using ‘empiricism’ as a useful handle or shorthand, as a broad contrast to European thought rather than as a unitary philosophical position. Hope so, anyway, and I think the point of contrast still stands. The contrast stems from much more than philosophies of science, it also can be see in the common law, parliamentary democracy and other aspects of a more ‘grounded’ approach to life within the ‘British’ tradition (some relate this to the early Germanic tribal influences; a long bow indeed).

Oh help, let’s not now get into ‘grounded theory’ in sociology; something else again!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

11 Jan 13 at 12:33 pm
George Monbiot blames Tony Abbott for summer.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 12:33 pm
But a question is why do we have 2 up and running when the rest of the country couldn’t organise a piss up in a desal plant.

In Vic, NSW & Qld we actually have the water resources and geographical location to built H-E dams, but in order to create a shag load of overpaid union jobs, they chose the more expensive option.

You can also bet the French crony capitalists that built the plants will be making “donations” to the Labor Party across the 30 or so year life of the inflated contracts the (former) Labor governments locked the states into.

Simple, it was a clusterf**k by the ALP on a number of generations of taxpayers.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 12:37 pm
Australians now burn, on average, slightly more carbon per capita than the citizens of the United States,

Great news! Where are the street parades?

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 12:38 pm
m0nty obviously sniffed a challenge, soiled his pants and took out the gold.

He is in the box seat, but the other lefties know the new thread opens at midnight tonight so there is plenty of time for them…
____________________

I started counting the number of errors, misrepresentations and outright lies in this article, but gave up at 20.

This airhead (Katherine Wilson)…

I’m glad you clarified that, there are just so many at FauxFacts, the ABC, the Courier Mail & the Punch…

Token

11 Jan 13 at 12:40 pm
Australians now burn, on average, slightly more carbon per capita than the citizens of the United States,

What does that mean? I thought the problem was CO2 emissions!

Token

11 Jan 13 at 12:41 pm
Also at the Guardian, re that photo of a family sheltering under a jetty…

Wildfires: an astonishing photograph of survivors in an age of catastrophe.

It is such a flame-seared image, we might be seeing the end of civilisation – and an Australian family tough enough to outlive it.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 12:42 pm
Australians now burn, on average, slightly more carbon per capita than the citizens of the United States,

Great news! Where are the street parades?

I think we need to go to India for that parade. See what has resulted from the fact we’ve been tardy at increasing CO2 emissions:

North India cold snap toll rises to 170

..and in Bangladesh…

80 die in record Bangladesh cold snap

Token

11 Jan 13 at 12:50 pm
Token: it’s just further pwoof of the age of catastrophe, dontcha know?

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 12:56 pm
Queensland and the Northern Territory?

CL, who in the NT? I know Collins but he was Senator, not Chief Minister.

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 1:01 pm
Sorry MHR not Senator

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 1:02 pm
I lived in Darwin then, Helen. It was Senator Bob Collins.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 1:17 pm
Thanks Tom.

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 1:24 pm
This is an Epic episode of Free to Choose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb6aqitTgOM

RodClarke

11 Jan 13 at 1:24 pm
Token, don’t you know that warmening causes coolening?

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 1:25 pm
Caught out. The UK Met Office ‘adjusts’ not only its current predictions about the future, but also its past predictions.

I’m sure David ’52C’ Jones of our own BoM would appreciate this ‘trick’.

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 1:30 pm
Australians now burn, on average, slightly more carbon per capita than the citizens of the United States,

These people are truly pathetic.

the amount of carbon emissions is dependent on the economic mix for one and of course the energy mix.

The US uses nuclear whereas we don’t. The US has more hydro whereas we don’t.

The US going forward will “burn” even less carbon because they now have loads and loads of gas which is for them at a more competitive price than coal.

The simplicity of their observations is astounding.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 1:33 pm
Melanie Phillips

I think this is what is called a slam dunk. Barack Obama has now proposed filling the three positions in the US administration most concerned with the security of the nation and the defence of the free world, those at State, Defence and the CIA, by three men who have all taken up positions which can only strengthen those who threaten the security of America and the survival of the free world.

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 1:35 pm
Helen, Collins was leader of ALP in the NT in the 1980s.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:46 pm
A good review of Obama cheerleader, Lena Dunham’s TV show:

Meanwhile, John Cook of Gawker described the show in a negative review as “a television program about the children of wealthy famous people and shitty music and Facebook and how hard it is to know who you are and Thought Catalog and sexually transmitted diseases and the exhaustion of ceaselessly dramatizing your own life while posing as someone who understands the fundamental emptiness and narcissism of that very self-dramatization.

Ouch. Gawker is part of the same left leaning infotainment sites as jezebel.com.

.

11 Jan 13 at 1:48 pm
When are people in the UK going to stop thinking Australia is a big death bowl? I was on the phone last night with someone in the UK and they were concerned with my safety. About the only problem with fire I’m going to have is overcooking my steaks on the bbq. It’s a big country, and people from a little country can never absorb that completely.

All that crap in those Guardian comments about ‘fires are the new normal’. Such emotive rubbish. Are these people just lefty warriors, or are they really that ignorant of well-documented history? I can understand English people swallowing the line that the country has burst into flames because of Global Warming, but apparently Australian readers tip in not to douse the speculation and brush the readers up on history, but to further whip up the frenzy.

Bushfires happen regularly in Australia, always have, always will. The predominant native species is a fireball looking for a spark. The only defense is sensible planning policies and emergency services response.

brc

11 Jan 13 at 1:53 pm
When are people in the UK going to stop thinking Australia is a big death bowl?

I pray never. It’s the only thing keeping those filthy hunchbacked yobs from invading us en masse.

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 1:57 pm
Ouch. Gawker is part of the same left leaning infotainment sites as jezebel.com.

Look upthread to my post 3:24pm 10/1. You’ll see this is what Gawker thinks is a responsible act:

On Tuesday, the website Gawker sparked controversy when it published a 446-page list of all the licensed gun owners in New York City, initially labeling them “a**holes.” And on Wednesday, Fox News’ “The Five” turned the tables and aired the website founder’s phone number and email in retaliation.

There is no way they could ensure that the names & addresses of law enforcement officials, stalking victims, etc were removed from that list…

Token

11 Jan 13 at 1:58 pm
I was on the phone last night with someone in the UK and they were concerned with my safety.

LOL.

You’ve got more chance of being bombed by a ‘British’ Muslim than you have of being killed in an Australian bushfire.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 1:59 pm
My sister emailed to ask if we were okay given the fires and I had to explain how far they are away from me. Obviously the UK media has the entire continent on fire. The next time there is fire in France I’ll email her to find out if she’s okay

Sinclair Davidson

11 Jan 13 at 2:02 pm
Somebody asked me via telephone if I was OK during last year’s floods.

I explained that we have hills in Australia.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 2:05 pm
Zombie commenter at The Drum:

we have sooooo much to be proud of – thanks to Gillard and the Labour pary.

Yes, yes we do. So proud.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 2:34 pm
Ah Yes CL, Collins leader of ALP.

I remember when Katherine River was a big flood back about 20 years ago and I had visitors coming from Oregon (I lived south of Alice then) and they asked was there any supplies they could bring, that we might be short of. They thought we were cut off by the Katherine Floods. Bless ‘em.

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 2:39 pm
More people died during the floods that ravaged Britain last year than died during our extreme catastrophic head to the beach week.

I notice people were still playing cricket etc last week.

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 2:39 pm
Noticed reading wiki how dishonest left wingers are (see the Reaganomics article).

US payroll taxes are described as proportional whereas they are regressive.

The increase in payroll tax paid is described as regressive (they assume it is proportional) as it shifted out of “progressive” taxation that had so many loopholes the top EMTR was basically non existent.

Carter’s payroll tax hike raised the payroll tax liable by 45%. Of course, Reagan ought to have repealed this – look at when it starts collecting revenue – just before the 1982 recession.

The left won’t admit this awful tax destroys jobs, or that in the US it is actually a regressive tax – all on its own.

.

11 Jan 13 at 2:42 pm
I just double the margarita intake when it’s hot,very refreshing

Tal

11 Jan 13 at 2:48 pm
This weather is great for drying the washing quickly.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 2:50 pm
There is one Pom I’d like to invite to our Super Freaky Dooper Catastrophic summer to get all hot and bothered.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 2:58 pm
Strange- when I try to look at your Nigella link C.L., Chrome decides to download it for me.

Cold-Hands

11 Jan 13 at 3:14 pm
I don’t think so CL. Last Nigella was in Oz she wore an Islamic spacesuit to the beach.

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Picture-517-300×219.png

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 3:23 pm
dot, that is a fair review of Dunham’s Girls. We tried watching the series over the last month but really couldn’t stomach it.

Oh, BTW, thanks for the ‘Nigella talks dirty’ link, CL; I never tire of it.

dover_beach

11 Jan 13 at 3:27 pm
Last Nigella was in Oz she wore an Islamic spacesuit to the beach.

No no. That’s good. I don’t want her to lose that beautiful pale skin.

C.L.

11 Jan 13 at 3:36 pm
I just double the margarita intake when it’s hot,very refreshing

with this song I hope tal…

JC

11 Jan 13 at 3:39 pm
m0nty, if you’re out there somewhere looking for your pants, I think you left them upthread around about the 12:31am mark.

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 3:40 pm
Zombie commenter at The Drum:

we have sooooo much to be proud of – thanks to Gillard and the Labour pary.

I reckon it’s sarc.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 3:41 pm
Jesus Joe I haven’t heard that song in years

Tal

11 Jan 13 at 4:06 pm
Sorry if this has been posted prior but i cannot find any reference to it in the MSM, wonder why that is?

A real menace: Ohio gun owner shields son, shoots mugger

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 4:08 pm
Hit submit too soon. Link.

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 4:10 pm
How do the QLDers rate Powers Bitter?

.

11 Jan 13 at 4:15 pm
Sorry if this has been posted prior…

Yes, but by the night-shift. It was probably past your bedtime

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 4:16 pm
No actually, that was am and not pm. You have no excuse Rudi! lol

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 4:18 pm
It was probably past your bedtime

Yes. And believe me, I need all the beauty sleep I can get.

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 4:19 pm
Doh!

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 4:19 pm
Doncha love technology.

Iphone app emails any new photos back to the owner.

Police are looking for the now photographed couple.

Some people are really stupid, especially these two munters

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 4:30 pm
Well NZ blogs are following the “Australian sexual abuse thing ”

( this bloke is no catholic )

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 4:34 pm
How do the QLDers rate Powers Bitter?

I can’t recall having seen it here for a long time. Do they still make it?

Dangph

11 Jan 13 at 4:46 pm
Did anyone watch that you tube thing?

“Designed by athiests so you know it is safe with kids”

Wow. The superiority complex and naivety of these people is mind blowing.

.

11 Jan 13 at 4:52 pm
How do the QLDers rate Powers Bitter?

I’ve never had it.

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 4:59 pm
Wow, was watching a vid about Milt and found this classic from the archive where he gets a question from a young Michael Moore.

It proves how dopey Moore is and what the skinny kid looks like that that is trying to get out of that Michael Moore suit.

Token

11 Jan 13 at 5:06 pm
Dot, it’s satire, I had a giggle.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 5:08 pm
Military Drawing Up Plans for Nation-wide Gun Confiscations

While there was initially some concern about the constitutionality of using the military on American soil, page 2131 of the ObamaCare Act actually amends the Posse Comitatus law to allow the military to disarm private citizens at the direction of the Secretary of Homeland Security. Objections by then-CIA Director David Petraeus were quietly silenced in November

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 5:09 pm
the skinny kid looks like that that is trying to get out of that Michael Moore suit.

Didn’t they have cheeseburgers back in the 1800s?

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 5:11 pm
Gillard-McTernan lay another landmine for an Abbott Government:

Julia Gillard today announced the terms of reference for the inquiry, to be led by senior NSW judge Peter McClellan, and which will be expected to provide an interim report by the end of June 2014. It is scheduled to wind up in December 2015.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 5:14 pm
Tom

The new government can screw around with the terms of reference anyway it pleases.

If there’s a problem, then they can be sacked and a new inquiry started.

In any event there’s going to be a lot of sackings in the first year, so I wouldn’t be too worried.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 5:19 pm
That’s right, Tom, and when asked how much it would cost (we’re talking six commissioners and hundreds of hangers-on, plus consultants, travel, etc etc) she just waved her hand and said effectively “whatever.”

Oh, and in the Telegraph, Nicola Roxon has apologised for saying she could live on $35 a day, because some people might perceive it as insensitive.

They truly live in fairyland.

johanna

11 Jan 13 at 5:20 pm
How do the QLDers rate Powers Bitter?

I’ve never had it.

Me neither.
Been drinking Arvo 34 lately, prefer it over the 51.(scroll down)
I get spoilt with one of these Darwin stubbies every now and then, excellent.

Rudiau

11 Jan 13 at 5:25 pm
Tom, yes typical.
I can’t remember any snakes that Howard placed in front of ALP.
I can think of a few ladders.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 5:25 pm
Joanna, that’s Macklin.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 5:26 pm
What is the point of this royal commision?

All of the recommendations have been done before.

NOW THEREFORE We do, by these Our Letters Patent issued in Our name by Our Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia on the advice of the Federal Executive Council and under the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia, the Royal Commissions Act 1902 and every other enabling power, appoint you to be a Commission of inquiry, and require and authorise you, to inquire into institutional responses to allegations and incidents of child sexual abuse and related matters, and in particular, without limiting the scope of your inquiry, the following matters:
what institutions and governments should do to better protect children against child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts in the future;
what institutions and governments should do to achieve best practice in encouraging the reporting of, and responding to reports or information about, allegations, incidents or risks of child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts;
what should be done to eliminate or reduce impediments that currently exist for responding appropriately to child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts, including addressing failures in, and impediments to, reporting, investigating and responding to allegations and incidents of abuse;
what institutions and governments should do to address, or alleviate the impact of, past and future child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts, including, in particular, in ensuring justice for victims through the provision of redress by institutions, processes for referral for investigation and prosecution and support services.
AND We direct you to make any recommendations arising out of your inquiry that you consider appropriate, including recommendations about any policy, legislative, administrative or structural reforms.
AND, without limiting the scope of your inquiry or the scope of any recommendations arising out of your inquiry that you may consider appropriate, We direct you, for the purposes of your inquiry and recommendations, to have regard to the following matters:
the experience of people directly or indirectly affected by child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts, and the provision of opportunities for them to share their experiences in appropriate ways while recognising that many of them will be severely traumatised or will have special support needs;
the need to focus your inquiry and recommendations on systemic issues, recognising nevertheless that you will be informed by individual cases and may need to make referrals to appropriate authorities in individual cases;
the adequacy and appropriateness of the responses by institutions, and their officials, to reports and information about allegations, incidents or risks of child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts;
changes to laws, policies, practices and systems that have improved over time the ability of institutions and governments to better protect against and respond to child sexual abuse and related matters in institutional contexts.
AND We further declare that you are not required by these Our Letters Patent to inquire, or to continue to inquire, into a particular matter to the extent that you are satisfied that the matter has been, is being, or will be, sufficiently and appropriately dealt with by another inquiry or investigation or a criminal or civil proceeding.
AND, without limiting the scope of your inquiry or the scope of any recommendations arising out of your inquiry that you may consider appropriate, We direct you, for the purposes of your inquiry and recommendations, to consider the following matters, and We authorise you to take (or refrain from taking) any action that you consider appropriate arising out of your consideration:
the need to establish mechanisms to facilitate the timely communication of information, or the furnishing of evidence, documents or things, in accordance with section 6P of the Royal Commissions Act 1902 or any other relevant law, including, for example, for the purpose of enabling the timely investigation and prosecution of offences;
the need to establish investigation units to support your inquiry;
the need to ensure that evidence that may be received by you that identifies particular individuals as having been involved in child sexual abuse or related matters is dealt with in a way that does not prejudice current or future criminal or civil proceedings or other contemporaneous inquiries;
the need to establish appropriate arrangements in relation to current and previous inquiries, in Australia and elsewhere, for evidence and information to be shared with you in ways consistent with relevant obligations so that the work of those inquiries, including, with any necessary consents, the testimony of witnesses, can be taken into account by you in a way that avoids unnecessary duplication, improves efficiency and avoids unnecessary trauma to witnesses;
the need to ensure that institutions and other parties are given a sufficient opportunity to respond to requests and requirements for information, documents and things, including, for example, having regard to any need to obtain archived material.
AND We appoint you, the Honourable Justice Peter David McClellan AM, to be the Chair of the Commission.
AND We declare that you are a relevant Commission for the purposes of sections 4 and 5 of the Royal Commissions Act 1902.
AND We declare that you are authorised to conduct your inquiry into any matter under these Our Letters Patent in combination with any inquiry into the same matter, or a matter related to that matter, that you are directed or authorised to conduct by any Commission, or under any order or appointment, made by any of Our Governors of the States or by the Government of any of Our Territories.
AND We declare that in these Our Letters Patent:
child means a child within the meaning of the Convention on the Rights of the Child of 20 November 1989.
government means the Government of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory, and includes any non-government institution that undertakes, or has undertaken, activities on behalf of a government.
institution means any public or private body, agency, association, club, institution, organisation or other entity or group of entities of any kind (whether incorporated or unincorporated), and however described, and:
includes, for example, an entity or group of entities (including an entity or group of entities that no longer exists) that provides, or has at any time provided, activities, facilities, programs or services of any kind that provide the means through which adults have contact with children, including through their families; and
does not include the family.
institutional context: child sexual abuse happens in an institutional context if, for example:
it happens on premises of an institution, where activities of an institution take place, or in connection with the activities of an institution; or
it is engaged in by an official of an institution in circumstances (including circumstances involving settings not directly controlled by the institution) where you consider that the institution has, or its activities have, created, facilitated, increased, or in any way contributed to, (whether by act or omission) the risk of child sexual abuse or the circumstances or conditions giving rise to that risk; or
it happens in any other circumstances where you consider that an institution is, or should be treated as being, responsible for adults having contact with children.
law means a law of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory.
official, of an institution, includes:
any representative (however described) of the institution or a related entity; and
any member, officer, employee, associate, contractor or volunteer (however described) of the institution or a related entity; and
any person, or any member, officer, employee, associate, contractor or volunteer (however described) of a body or other entity, who provides services to, or for, the institution or a related entity; and
any other person who you consider is, or should be treated as if the person were, an official of the institution.
related matters means any unlawful or improper treatment of children that is, either generally or in any particular instance, connected or associated with child sexual abuse.
AND We:
require you to begin your inquiry as soon as practicable, and
require you to make your inquiry as expeditiously as possible; and
require you to submit to Our Governor-General:
first and as soon as possible, and in any event not later than 30 June 2014 (or such later date as Our Prime Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, fix on your recommendation), an initial report of the results of your inquiry, the recommendations for early consideration you may consider appropriate to make in this initial report, and your recommendation for the date, not later than 31 December 2015, to be fixed for the submission of your final report; and
then and as soon as possible, and in any event not later than the date Our Prime Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, fix on your recommendation, your final report of the results of your inquiry and your recommendations; and
authorise you to submit to Our Governor-General any additional interim reports that you consider appropriate.
IN WITNESS, We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent.

Gillard couldn’t give a shit about kids.

It’s a ruse bash Abbot, Catholics and shut down the idea of a Royal Commission into union corruption.

.

11 Jan 13 at 5:29 pm
I see

We direct you, for the purposes of your inquiry and recommendations, to consider the following matters, and We authorise you to take (or refrain from taking) any action that you consider appropriate arising out of your consideration:
the need to establish mechanisms to facilitate the timely communication of information, or the furnishing of evidence, documents or things, in accordance with section 6P of the Royal Commissions Act 1902 or any other relevant law, including, for example, for the purpose of enabling the timely investigation and prosecution of offences;

I still stand by what I said about Gillard. It’s about the last priority, the first terms of reference have been addressed by about 20 years of legislation and best practices.

.

11 Jan 13 at 5:33 pm
As a kid who was ‘different’ and bullied in school himself, an interesting post from E.M. Smith

Myrrdin Seren

11 Jan 13 at 5:40 pm
Heard Rudd on radio saying (my translation ) ” Well, there’s no surplus promise {Swan ya loser} now so how bout a pay rise for the dole bludgers {gillard ya cow}”

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 5:40 pm
Heard Rudd on radio saying (my translation ) ” Well, there’s no surplus promise {Swan ya loser} now so how bout a pay rise for the dole bludgers {gillard ya cow}”

And on someone else’s money, ya suckers!

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 5:43 pm
It’s not Michael Moore…

Holy cow! I never thought this video would get so many views. I uploaded it as a joke – this is not the real Michael Moore (although if you add some neckfat it would be hard to tell the difference). I meant “A Young Michael Moore” in the sense that a child who is great at basketball is a “Young Michael Jordan”. Nevertheless, I’m glad it stirred some debate in the comment section, it’s a great back and forth between Friedman and the kid, IMO. I thought the metaphor would be obvious, seeing as how the kid is a skinny redhead, while Michael Moore… well, isn’t a skinny redhead. I apologize for the confusion.

Abu Chowdah

11 Jan 13 at 5:43 pm
This is just great. Piers Morgan the smug limey CNN anchor telling Americans what they should with their guns and bullying anyone who doesn’t agree with him gets destroyed by this kid, Ben Shapiro from Breitbart.

The smugness begins to fade through the interview.

http://www.therightscoop.com/masterful-breitbarts-ben-shapiro-torches-piers-morgan-and-his-straw-men/

JC

11 Jan 13 at 5:53 pm
being a “limey” I remember when Morgan was in charge at the Mirror when he published the fake british soldier pictures of Iraqi torture. The prick was out the door, and for some reason the yanks took him on?

It wouldn’t be difficult to give Piers an intellectual hiding.

harrys on the boat

11 Jan 13 at 6:01 pm
jump, thanks – Roxon, Macklin – it’s easy to mix them up.

Reading the RC’s ToRs, what strikes me is that not only have they lumbered an incming government with tens of millions of dollars worth of costs for the Commission itself – they have explicitly asked for recommendations on compensation. It’s a poison pill for many Budgets to come.

I wouldn’t want to be an Aboriginal kid in a remote community hoping for anything to change as a result of this loathsome grandstanding, though. Zero result there.

johanna

11 Jan 13 at 6:06 pm
from Myrdin’s link… right at the end.

In short, the way to fix this is just to stop letting kids run the social order and stop running the schools the same way prisons are run. Make them a fun safe place to go explore the world and “people like me” will spend our time exploring the world (not figuring out how to ‘take out’ their abusers and not needing to be ‘drugged up’). IMHO vouchers and school choice would go a very long way along this path

That’s the way to end school bullying, all right. Bring back some sense of discipline into schools. Don’t let the students run the place.

dd

11 Jan 13 at 6:14 pm
JC, a good debate. It’s good to see someone defending the Second Amendment as intended by the Founders.

He should have just finished by saying “You’re right! You don’t a Second Amendment in the UK because the place is fucked, a backwater that’s becoming more and more so by the day. You don’t have any rights worth defending anymore!”

John Mc

11 Jan 13 at 6:24 pm
In short, the way to fix this is just to stop letting kids run the social order and stop running the schools the same way prisons are run.

Do prisoners run prisons? Discipline is not going to stop bullying because bullies are smart enough to know when to bully. Is there any data to indicate that bullying has increased in recent years or is this just more media manufactured?

Bullying is not just about schools. We live in a verbally aggressive culture where denigrating people is acceptable behavior in some circles. Monkey see, monkey do. You wanna do something about bullying, set an example.

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 6:28 pm
John H

I think there’s a good point there. American schools more so than our public schools are huge monstrosities which are run like prisons and feel like prisons.
Choice would mean decentralization and obviously smaller schools.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
These days, not including a kid in a game at play lunch is referred to as bullying.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
You wanna do something about bullying, set an example.

Make your kiddies do a self defense course.

Problem solved.

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 6:39 pm
Oh man, Piers got bitch slapped by Shapiro’s pimp hand!

Abu Chowdah

11 Jan 13 at 6:43 pm
Just when you thought Australia’s nanny-staters couldn’t get any more ridiculous…

Lethal Russian lollies!

squawkbox

11 Jan 13 at 7:20 pm
I think there’s a good point there. American schools more so than our public schools are huge monstrosities which are run like prisons and feel like prisons.
Choice would mean decentralization and obviously smaller schools.

JC,

Zimbardo. If you make the place like a prison how do you think the inmates will act? If the USA has driven itself into a situation where the schools are like prisons then let it be on their own heads the idiots. Fme, there is even an argument that such an environment will detrimental to learning.

This comes back to a point I was making on another forum about this issue. If you have to keep “reinforcing schools” against attacks you are creating an environment that is not conducive in bringing out the best in people.

Make your kiddies do a self defense course.

Nearly all bullying is verbal. If you strike a person for verbal insults it is “inappropriate” under the law. Fuck the law. But we can’t do that …. .

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 7:29 pm
About the 1 metre fire thing.

I live in a rural residential area on 1.5 acres.

If I wish to burn off and the “bonfire” is larger than 1m diameter or 1m height I must notify the local Bushfire Brigade and get permission and tell them when I’ll be burning off.

If I don’t I can be fined thousands of dollars.

Problem is where I live there are too many people who are clueless about rural living, about farm animal requirements (and regulations for the health and welfare of farm animals*), and fire.

One idiot decided to burn off his 1.5 acre block years ago and we nearly lost a few houses, and my neighbours lost all their plants. Their grass wasn’t long as they mowed regularly but the ground fire was enough to set fire to their mulch and kill their trees.

*1.5 acres is NOT enough for a couple of horses, a few head of cattle, cats and five dogs!

(Why are Indians calling me about the federal solar rebate? I keep hanging up but they keep ringing. Interesting how they have names of famous Aussie cricketers!)

kae

11 Jan 13 at 7:32 pm
It’s not Michael Moore…

Holy cow! I never thought this video would get so many views. I uploaded it as a joke – this is not the real Michael Moore (although if you add some neckfat it would be hard to tell the difference). I meant “A Young Michael Moore” in the sense that a child who is great at basketball is a “Young Michael Jordan”. Nevertheless, I’m glad it stirred some debate in the comment section, it’s a great back and forth between Friedman and the kid, IMO. I thought the metaphor would be obvious, seeing as how the kid is a skinny redhead, while Michael Moore… well, isn’t a skinny redhead. I apologize for the confusion.

Thanks for that Abu. Interesting discussion. The leftards appear to target Ford for releasing onto the market a cheap car, a car that didn’t have the safety level of more expensive vehicles. It is assumed by the leftard that, as Ford is a multinational corporation, it is evil and did this for the purpose of killing people. This was from ‘Mother Jones”, that as evidence of evil cited the expectation from Ford that it would incur $x millions in liability suits. This forgets that, in the insane US Tort system, all new products (and old products too) are subject to litigation for any perceived injury.

The Ford model was cheap (was it the Pinto?) and sold cheaply. It was meeting a market need for cheap cars. The design and or fuel tank components were not of a high standard, and they tended to burst into flames on impact in an accident. Ford was held liable for substantial damages for bothering to meet a market need for cheap small cars.

Now they import them, I believe.

Will

11 Jan 13 at 7:39 pm
Just when you thought Australia’s nanny-staters couldn’t get any more ridiculous…

God I hate this country.

Notice how the complainants are always anonymous lobby groups?

Infidel Tiger

11 Jan 13 at 7:45 pm
Getting an error when I try to post a comment. Grr.

A matter of concern is that the regular burn offs which occur in winter on the range below Toowoomba have not happened for the past two years.

With all the rain before and after the floods of 10-12 January 2011 the fuel load is huge and the threat is there.

I haven’t noticed the annoying smoke for the past two years. I have seen fires up on the range in December and there’s been a bit of smoke around.

There have been electrical storms here at night for the past two days, no rain to speak of, but spectacular displays.

kae

11 Jan 13 at 7:49 pm
I can’t speak for Steve of course,

Just fart, same thing.

nic

11 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
Stay safe Kae.

Helen Armstrong

11 Jan 13 at 8:00 pm
JC and Abu convinced that a smirking, libertarian kid talking up the old paranoia defence of the second amendment, but who didn’t know Ronald Reagan supported getting assault rifles, “destroyed” Morgan? What a joke. Put down your ideology goggles and watch it again.

Ironically, for a kid crapping on about possible future tyrannical government, his youthful serious earnestness sure made him look like the one susceptible to being convinced by a leader to do something stupid in defence of ideology.

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 8:05 pm
Notice how the complainants are always anonymous lobby groups?

I strongly suspect that the Parents Jury of Australia, the Cancer Council Australia, Diabetes Australia and The Australian and NZ Obesity Society, are all the same organisation with the same membership – one man, a fax machine and several different letterheads.

squawkbox

11 Jan 13 at 8:05 pm
Sorry: “Reagan supported getting assault rifles out of public hands…”

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 8:06 pm
JC and Abu convinced that a smirking, libertarian kid talking up the old paranoia defence of the second amendment, but who didn’t know Ronald Reagan supported getting assault rifles, “destroyed” Morgan? What a joke. Put down your ideology goggles and watch it again.

I have and you are wrong.

You’ve admitted as much previously that there is no proof that gun regulation works, it just makes you feel good.

On the same basis, I could demand legislation that Joanna Krupa must be my mistress, but it would be just as banal and asinine.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:10 pm
The Ford model was cheap (was it the Pinto?)

t’was indeed the pinto.

ford also sold another legendary car, the edsel, which had a grille that resembled a bleep.

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 8:10 pm
I hope 4 corners does a show with footage of Australian livestock ( tens of thousands of em ) being burnt to death due to the greens anti-burn off laws.
Meanwhile farmers are doing what they always do, help thy neighbour and his animals.
Greens help? = zero.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 8:12 pm
Zimbardo. If you make the place like a prison how do you think the inmates will act? If the USA has driven itself into a situation where the schools are like prisons then let it be on their own heads the idiots. Fme, there is even an argument that such an environment will detrimental to learning.

Correct. US schooling is stuck in the 1950s. Reform from an economists point of view will only go so far.

Nearly all bullying is verbal. If you strike a person for verbal insults it is “inappropriate” under the law. Fuck the law. But we can’t do that ….

That’s why it is good kids play sport. You’re all equal wielding a hockey stick.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:13 pm
You’ve admitted as much previously that there is no proof that gun regulation works, it just makes you feel good.

Well, nothing other than how many years without a mass shooting in Australia since 1996.

The libertarian Right, truly, has no common sense at the moment.

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 8:14 pm
I strongly suspect that the Parents Jury of Australia, the Cancer Council Australia, Diabetes Australia and The Australian and NZ Obesity Society, are all the same organisation with the same membership – one man, a fax machine and several different letterheads.

You forgot the “Australian Pedestrian Council“, the original ‘one man and a fax machine’ outfit.

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 8:14 pm
Kae

I was told that the ground combustibles in SE NSW was up to 8 tonnes per hectare and considered waay too dangerous. This was a couple of years ago so the lack of hazard management is seeing the fire-chookies coming home to roost.

A class action against the greens and their fellow travellers would be nice if it could be arranged – a certain firm of ambulance chasers springs to mind.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:16 pm
And there is the proof that Shapiro smashed Piers right there at 8;05pm.

I watched it and now I realise I ~~want~~ need a gun.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 8:19 pm
The libertarian Right, truly, has no common sense at the moment

Apart from an oxymoron, we have no common sense, because we are quite uncommon.

It isn’t the guns that are the problem SOB, it’s the rejection of individual rights that is. The support of human rights is an outright rejection of individual rights, and only brain dead lefties could come up with such a stupid concept.

The US public education system generates people who believe in human rights, not individual rights.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:21 pm
Well, nothing other than how many years without a mass shooting in Australia since 1996.

The clayton campus shooting was foiled by an economics lecturer.

Do we need more economics grads?

There has been other mass murders, like Childers. The method simply changes. Mc Veigh wouldn’t have cared if he couldn’t have accessed firearms for example (Robert Long certainly didn’t at Childers), neither did the underworld murderers in Melbourne – and most of them were ineligible for a gun licence.

Why din’t gun laws stop them?

Gun laws are simply part of an overall package to dominate and humiliate the political opponents of urbanised US liberals.

That is it. No more, no less.

US Senators Boxer, Feinstein and Kennedy however were/are massive flapping hypocrites on the issue of gun control.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:22 pm
Threads are getting knotted, so am repeating it here, because it is important…

David O’Byrne, Tasmanian Government minister just on Their ABC News saying that 80% of the land affected is privately owned. So hazard reduction was their responsibility, nothing to do with the government.

Meanwhile, from a Dunalley farmer: “But what’s the point of that now when the hills and trees they told me I couldn’t burn off, because there were protected eagles and swift parrots there, are now all burned and the fire it created was so hot we had dead swans dropping out of the sky?”

Blame the victim. Greenfilth scum, just scum…

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 8:26 pm
For those with minds that are still open to evidence, Beckie notes that the media have been ignoring other school massacres by guns in the world.

Earlier this month, Islamist terrorists in Syria killed 28 students and their teacher at school.
Did anybody notice? Of course not. If it happened in the Middle East but Israel isn’t involved, it’s not news. If it involved an attack on a school but American culture can’t be blamed, it’s not news.
>Don’t even get me started on school attacks in China.

Since the recent spate of attacks, many parents are now worried about their children’s safety in schools and have since asked local officials and school governors to step up security at the schools. The education ministry has formed an emergency panel to tackle the violence and some local police authorities have distributed such instruments as steel pitchforks and pepper spray to security guards in schools.

Only if its a right-winger or the US does it get media coverage; otherwise zip, nada.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
Lazlo, got a link to that quote ? I have a Henry article looming and it’s on topic.

Thanks – LH

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:31 pm
Wasn’t there a bloke that did clear his land around his house and it was one of the only ones left unburnt, couple years back, only to be fined thousands of dollars for breaking tree clearing laws?

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 8:32 pm
Lazlo, these pricks are evil, plain and simple.

Skuter

11 Jan 13 at 8:33 pm
Here, jump

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_did_green_faith_turn_a_fire_into_an_inferno/

But it also includes the new green movement, which before Black Saturday had grown so strong in the politics of the councils in our most fire-prone areas that Nillumbik Shire even fined people for clearing trees from their homes or for removing dead wood.

Indeed, counsel assisting the royal commission, Jack Rush, QC, this week suggested that since 1981 no fuel reduction burns had been done within 3km to 5km of Kinglake, where 42 people died last year.

Or consider Mitchell Shire Council, which before Black Saturday forced one ratepayer to pay $100,000 in fines and costs for clearing his own fire break.

Or the Shire of Yarra Ranges, which back then openly said it had “not undertaken prescribed burning on public land under its control for a number of years” because of “liability issues” and a lack of staff, but then tut-tutted that these burns were no magic bullet, anyway, and we should worry about “interfering with this natural regime”.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:36 pm
You mean the O’Byrne quote LH? Will search for it. But it should appear on an ABC 7pm News transcript some time soon (maybe)..

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 8:37 pm
More here

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_those_warning_we_failed_to_heed/

How many times have Victorian governments ignored such warnings, letting the fuel in our forests mount to these lethal levels?

Well, ask the federal Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, which in 2007 wrote to yet another inquiry into bushfires to suggest that rather than ask for more advice, Victoria should just act on the advice it had been given already.

“DAFF would also like to draw the attention of the Inquiry to the outcomes of the national inquiries held after the 2003 fires . . .

“There is concern that some of the recommendations from the national inquiries have not been implemented by land management agencies.”

In particular, “prescribed burning (in Victoria) has been reducing in recent years”.

But by then we were already so mad with tree worship that one of the shires worst hit by the fires this past week boasted that “the Shire of Yarra Ranges has not undertaken prescribed burning on public land under its control for a number of years”.

Bizarrely, Mitchell Shire Council even made a ratepayer, Liam Sheahan, pay $100,000 in fines and costs for clearing his own fire break, which last weekend saved his Reedy Creek home from the fire storm which destroyed many houses around it.

And Nillumbik Shire, which contains Kinglake, last year warned ratepayers it had just fined two people for clearing trees from around their own homes, and another for simply picking up dead wood from the roadside.

“Nillumbik values its large tree canopies, they are major contributors to the landscape and character of our shire, and provide a familiar habitat for our precious wildlife,” the mayor wrote.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:38 pm
JC, Ben Shapiro made Piers Morgan look second rate, and Piers didn’t like it at all.

I liked the faked indignation about standing on the graves of the children of Sandy Hook.That’s exactly what Piers Morgan has been doing, and for the purpose of increasing ratings, IMO.

Eddystone

11 Jan 13 at 8:38 pm
Lazlo,

Oh, OK – just that since you “quoted” it I assumed you had a link or similar.’

ABC 7PM news you say? I’ll wait for it to appear then.

Thanks

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:40 pm
Just to be fair and balanced, here is the story from the Silly Moaning Hilmer

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fined-for-illegal-clearing-family-now-feel-vindicated-20090212-85bd.html

They were labelled law breakers, fined $50,000 and left emotionally and financially drained.
But seven years after the Sheahans bulldozed trees to make a fire break — an act that got them dragged before a magistrate and penalised — they feel vindicated. Their house is one of the few in Reedy Creek, Victoria, still standing.
The Sheahans’ 2004 court battle with the Mitchell Shire Council for illegally clearing trees to guard against fire, as well as their decision to stay at home and battle the weekend blaze, encapsulate two of the biggest issues arising from the bushfire tragedy.

SNIP

The family of four had discussed evacuation but decided their property was defensible, due largely to their decision to clear a fire break. It also helped that Mr Sheahan, his son Rowan and daughter Kirsten were all experienced members of the local CFA.
“We prayed and we worked bloody hard. Our house was lit up eight times by the fire as the front passed,” Mr Sheahan said. “The elements off our TV antenna melted. We lost a Land Rover, two Subarus, a truck and trailer and two sheds.”
Mr Sheahan is still angry about his prosecution, which cost him $100,000 in fines and legal fees. The council’s planning laws allow trees to be cleared only when they are within six metres of a house. Mr Sheahan cleared trees up to 100 metres away from his house.
“The council stood up in court and made us to look like the worst, wanton environmental vandals on the earth. We’ve got thousands of trees on our property. We cleared about 247,” he said.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:41 pm
I watched the Piers Morgan/Alex Jones interview yesterday – magnificent! Jonesy took no prisoners.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:42 pm
That’s im, thanks dot.
My loathing for the greens grows by the day.

jumpnmcar

11 Jan 13 at 8:43 pm
Stepford.

You seem to be obsessed with banning semi automatics. You do realize that hand guns are semis too, right?

JC

11 Jan 13 at 8:52 pm
Question for brigade firefighters and rural firefighters:

Let’s say I own a 4 bdr tin roof home on a few acres. Or a few hundred.

How far would you recommend a firebreak for?

50 metres? 100 metres?

How would you built a windbreak? Would you recommend the 100 m to be of lush, mowed lawns and other non woody type greenery?

This says as big as possible, but at least 20 metres.

http://www.dfes.wa.gov.au/safetyinformation/fire/bushfire/BushfireManualsandGuides/FESA_Bushfire-Homeowners_Survival_Manual.pdf

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:52 pm
Pay no attention to SfB; he is of diminished responsibility.

blogstrop

11 Jan 13 at 8:53 pm
Louis

Are you feeling okay? Alex Jones is a fucking lunatic.
He thinks the US government did 911.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 8:56 pm
I see they recommend you build a brick, masonry or earthen wall as a heat shield.

The WA Fire Service document is the best that civilians can access. Well worth a read, I reckon.

.

11 Jan 13 at 8:57 pm
Dot, I would say ember attack depends on wind conditions and the fuel involved, but could be a lot more than 100m. Having cleared paddocks (with some shade trees) for at least 200m would be my idea, but the more the better.
Radiant heat attack (like setting your curtains on fire from a distance) I can’t really comment on, but again expect it would have to be within 200m and a pretty fierce blaze.

blogstrop

11 Jan 13 at 8:58 pm
Louis: here

Chief fire officer Mike Brown says now is not the time to discuss fuel-reduction, but he stressed individual property owners also have a responsibility.

“I would think that there’s less fuel-reduction done now that there would have been 20 or 30 years ago,” he said.

“But I think we’ve got to understand that large areas of these fires were on private property and if you own the land, you own the fuel and you own the risk.”

He says Tasmania will still be in a critical fire danger period for the next eight to 12 weeks.

“We can not afford to relax, in fact we need to increase out vigilance and step up our preparations.”

Tasmania’s Emergency Management Minister says strategic fuel reduction is done in collaboration with the fire service.

David O’Byrne says most of the area burnt by the two most destructive fires was private property.

“Fuel-reduction is a shared responsibility,” he said.

“What we saw in the two major incidents at Dunalley and the Forcett fire and also at Lake Repulse, 80 per cent of that land was privately-owned.

“So it is a shared responsibility between the tiers of Government and also private land-owners as well.”

About 170 properties more than 100,000 hectares have been destroyed in the past week.

Residents of Dunalley which was the hardest hit town raised the issue earlier this week.

Nothing about what the government has/has not done. Clearly aimed at blaming the victims and absolving the greenslime. Your ABC at work… scum.

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 8:58 pm
Lazlo, thanks LH

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 8:59 pm
Private property ownership doesn’t any longer mean you can do what’s sensible!

blogstrop

11 Jan 13 at 9:00 pm
My pleasure. Let it be recorded in stone:

..if you own the land, you own the fuel and you own the risk.

Nothing to do with greenslime guvmint totalitarianism

Lazlo

11 Jan 13 at 9:02 pm
Dot, I would say ember attack depends on wind conditions and the fuel involved, but could be a lot more than 100m. Having cleared paddocks (with some shade trees) for at least 200m would be my idea, but the more the better.
Radiant heat attack (like setting your curtains on fire from a distance) I can’t really comment on, but again expect it would have to be within 200m and a pretty fierce blaze.

The advice on growing green crops around any dwellings such as potato, tomato or lucerne would seem to be fairly practical.

You could even use a series of pivot irrigators as some sort of ack ack system with the firefront hits.

That plus a masonry or earthen wall as a shield should see a dwelling remain safe if it was fireproofed.

More or less, the point is made: Victorian and Tasmanian environmental regulations make it illegal to adequately fireproof your property.

Damn the Australian Greens, it would be wholly moral to (legally) conspire against them so they lose all their seats in any Parliament or local council.

Any prudent property owner would act clandestinely, or operate a mineral exploration licence…

————————————————-

However, this implies radiant heat can kill or endanger people, property or livestock from 10-30 metres away, and it says that embers can travel up to a MILE from the firefront.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-30301_30505_30816-24040–,00.html

.

11 Jan 13 at 9:07 pm
ABC News is becoming bloody irritating – they are ramping up the fire catastrophe warnings every news announcement. I have the vaguest of impressions that this is a bit of directed propaganda to put us into a frame of mind that might choose to re-elect the doctrinaire socialist Ms J. Gillard soon.

In other words, a March election methinks.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 9:08 pm
ABC News is becoming bloody irritating – they are ramping up the fire catastrophe warnings every news announcement. I have the vaguest of impressions that this is a bit of directed propaganda to put us into a frame of mind that might choose to re-elect the doctrinaire socialist Ms J. Gillard soon.

The conditions are actually getting better, in NSW at least.

In other words, a March election methinks

.

But monty said the NBN was an “ace in the hole”.

.

11 Jan 13 at 9:11 pm
Did I miss some comments?
Did Numbers get banned?

kae

11 Jan 13 at 9:11 pm
Dot, embers travel a bit more further than a mile – and I have had the weirdest experiences with bushfire smoke in the Kimberleys as well – one time we smelled smoke, abandoned the drilling for the day and went back to camp. Odd thing was that the smoked had travelled as a coherent cloud from a far distant place, but nearby there were no fires.

So smoke from fires does travel a lot further than most understand, especially laterally. Usually one assumes hot fires rise vertically but once your mind has been introduced to plasma physics, and burning vegetation is plasma, the electrical forces have to be included in any scientific analysis.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 9:17 pm
NBN is an ace in the hole? Much like bankrupting me, building a NBN, and then expecting me to then, as an undischarged bankrupt, to fund the connection of the NBN to my dwelling and thereafter pay to use it.

Mind you the NBN is a guvmint operation, so the cheapest quote is accepted, which means the NBN cables are above ground – which suggests that lack of fire hazard reduction will tend to cause frequent and costly destructions of the cable network from fire. And as it is made of optical fibre, it will burn magnificently (I guess).

Idiots.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
Question for brigade firefighters and rural firefighters:
Let’s say I own a 4 bdr tin roof home on a few acres. Or a few hundred.
How far would you recommend a firebreak for?
50 metres? 100 metres?
How would you built a windbreak? Would you recommend the 100 m to be of lush, mowed lawns and other non woody type greenery?

Mark – it depends on the fuel – grass or timber – the slope of the hill, the temperature and the wind-speed on the day.

And also your house – if the gutters are clear (and full of water) and there is no fuel lying around your garden (grass clippings, bark) that is half the battle. In any ordinary fire, 20 metres clear around your house is going to be fine – if there is no fuel to burn, embers won’t strike.

But on a 45 degree day with strong winds and a hot fire with a big timber fuel load roaring up the hill toward your house, nothing is going to stop it. In this case what matters more is reducing fuel 100′s of meters from the house. No trees. Or a better designed house that won’t burn no matter what.

Tim

11 Jan 13 at 9:47 pm
Classic:

A glance at any human being should be enough to dispel the notion it is the work of an intelligent being.

The Immortalisation Commission.

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 9:56 pm
Louis Hissink, Nitrogen plasma in a bushfire? Based on colour temperature, I’d say a bushfire wouldn’t get past 3000K at the very most — not hot enough to ionize.

I was told that the ground combustibles in SE NSW was up to 8 tonnes per hectare and considered waay too dangerous.

At Kilmore East on the 7 Feb 2009 Victorian fires, fuel loads were 40 to 50 tonnes per hectare or 5 to 6 times higher than what you are calling dangerous (as reported in the Royal Commission report, with senior CFA officers inspecting the area 4 weeks before the fire).

I might go on to say there were 119 fatalities at Kilmore East and 1242 homes destroyed.

The nature of the fuel the fire was consuming and the extreme weather conditions meant that spotting was occurring 20 and 40 kilometres ahead of the main fire front. In some cases these spot fires developed into major fires in their own right.

Tel

11 Jan 13 at 10:06 pm
“But I think we’ve got to understand that large areas of these fires were on private property and if you own the land, you own the fuel and you own the risk.”

Not if some bureaucrat is telling you you can’t do something on your own property you don’t. That’s the whole point dickhead.

H B Bear

11 Jan 13 at 10:11 pm
Usually one assumes hot fires rise vertically but once your mind has been introduced to plasma physics, and burning vegetation is plasma, the electrical forces have to be included in any scientific analysis.

It’s very hot and lonely, the life of a geologist, and a man’s mind gets to wandering…

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 10:11 pm
On Black Friday, Jan 1939, my Dad was covered in ash from the fires in the Dandenngs when walking a pony home from a cattle sale in Korumburra South Gippsland. He said the smell of fire and smoke was so fresh that he was fearful for the farmhouse even though the fires were over 50 miles away. It was dark at 3pm in the afternoon.

hzhousewife

11 Jan 13 at 10:12 pm
A glance at any human being should be enough to dispel the notion it is the work of an intelligent being.

Oh really?

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
Dandenongs !!

hzhousewife

11 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
Potemkin’s Village

Dante Alighieri’s third ring of hell is… here

Grigory Potemkin

11 Jan 13 at 10:24 pm
Gillard all over the news announcing the Royal Commission. Six commissioners and two years (before the inevitable extensions). Anyone want to hazard a guess at what this will cost?

Net result will be right up there with KRudd saying sorry to the black fellas.

H B Bear

11 Jan 13 at 10:36 pm
Note the reported Melbourne temperature

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Thursday_(1851)

The year preceding the fires was exceptionally hot and dry and this trend continued into the summer of 1851. On Black Thursday, a northerly wind set in early and the temperature in Melbourne was reported to have peaked at 47.2 degrees C (117 degrees F) at 11:00am.

Yes the article goes on to dispute the temp…but five million hectares burnt out is five million hectares burnt out.

Not as impressive as Sturt’s exploding thermometers and 53.9 degrees…but it raises questions about alarmism…about the same alarmists who refuse to engage in fuel reduction.

.

11 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
Six commissioners and two years (before the inevitable extensions). Anyone want to hazard a guess at what this will cost?

Can’t Yabbott simply abolish the fucking ridiculous circus after the next feral election?

FFS.

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
He should, but he won’t though as I think he’s becoming a little bit of a soft cock since the attacks.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:04 pm
Jon Stewart summarizes gun lobby paranoia:

“Now I get it, now I see what’s happening,” he said. “Their paranoid fear of a possible dystopic future prevents us from addressing our actual dystopic present.” We can’t do anything, he added, because the right is too worried about the rise of “imaginary Hitler.”

Meanwhile, gun nut puts up Youtube threatening to “start killing people” if gun laws go “one inch further” and invites all “patriots” to load up.

Paranoia runs deep in an unusually high proportion of the US population. Sorry, it just does.

And, by the way, it’s reported that the shotgun shooting by a 16 yr old at a Californian school was at a school that has a deputy on site routinely.

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 11:04 pm
So steps,

You get your US news from Jon Stewart… a comedian?

Heavy duty stuff you watch, steps.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:09 pm
In the land of Howardian gun laws:

The man was last night undergoing surgery in Coffs Harbour Hospital after surviving being shot in the head at close range by an alleged former love rival.

The victim, his partner and their three children had returned to their home town of Mullaway, on the state’s north coast this week after the partner’s father went missing.

On Wednesday afternoon the family were at Woolgoolga headland as a police rescue team dragged a body from the water.

The victim, fearing it was his missing father-in-law, decided to drive to his home – in the hope he was there and the body wasn’t his, or to shield the children if it was.

Police allege that, as the family drove off, former love rival Daniel Baird spotted the victim and followed the car.

It is alleged that the pair had previously fought over a woman they had both been involved with years ago. When they reached the home about 5.30pm, Baird allegedly confronted the victim while both men were sitting in their cars.

It is alleged the victim wound down his car window to ask Baird what he wanted, when Baird allegedly shot him. “The three kids were showered in their father’s blood,” the victim’s father said last night.

The alleged gunman is reportedly the son of a local Finks bikie leader.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-shot-in-the-head-after-running-into-old-rival/story-e6frf7jo-1226551468038

You can ban all guns and yet the criminal element, the rapists, the home invaders will not stop using guns.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Paranoia runs deep in an unusually high proportion of the US population. Sorry, it just does.

How would you know? Unless the disability pension has had a dramatic increase you’ll never be able to get there.

Infidel tiger

11 Jan 13 at 11:13 pm
Savage, and very funny, Colbert Report takedown of NRA response.

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
Abbott can’t shut down the Royal Commission – the bleating would be deafening. David Marr would pop his butt plug. Just another Flaming Edgar left by Gillard for after the election.

H B Bear

11 Jan 13 at 11:18 pm
Colbert is paid to be a TV comedian isn’t he?

Why would anyone take a paid clown/jester seriously?

Cackle away, clown boy, earn your money.

Pedro the Ignorant

11 Jan 13 at 11:22 pm
Those who get all of their “news” from The Comedy Channel are what are known in the States as “Low Information Voters” (LIVs).

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 11:24 pm
You can ban all guns and yet the criminal element, the rapists, the home invaders will not stop using guns.

Gab, this sentence makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to the utterly loathsome, lobotomised semenblogger shitferbrains, who’s back, Baby, BACK!

The dick head.

Rabz

11 Jan 13 at 11:24 pm
“Jon Stewart summarizes gun lobby paranoia:”

Jon Stewart is a supercilious entertainer, only occasionally amusing.

Try Thomas Sowell for his considered view on the subject, a view not trotted out for closely tracked applause meter readings and advertising placement.

For an objective, substantiated analysis on local defence expenditure or primary industry marketing policy do you prefer Vacuous Mellie on 7 or MsszzzMrs Peter Fitzsimons on 9?

Mick Gold Coast QLD

11 Jan 13 at 11:28 pm
The people who get all their ‘news’ from The Comedy Channel, and whose opinions are all borrowed from cable-TV comedians, are fond of self-identifying as “the reality-based community”.

Amazingly, they are also among the most humorless people on the planet.

sdog

11 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
Rabz, he’s nuttier than a squirrel poop.

Gab

11 Jan 13 at 11:30 pm
Tel, who mentioned Nitrogen plasma?

Steve from Brisbane, astute observations from your cage in urbanland; computerised or from brekkie cereal boxes.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 11:31 pm
Paranoia runs deep in an unusually high proportion of the US population. Sorry, it just does.

Dogshit, you have no idea what is going on in America. And being an ignorant peasant prone to fascist fantasies, you think you know more about democracy than the people who wrote the US Constitution.

You keep hanging around here trying to manufacture approval. Let me tell you: you are a piece of human garbage. And you are incapable of learning. You are a troll. Fuck off.

Tom

11 Jan 13 at 11:33 pm
It’s very hot and lonely, the life of a geologist, and a man’s mind gets to wandering…

from the intellectual shackles of dogma that limit the behaviour of those content with the minima of life, to wax lyrically of things unknown, but to confuse such mortalities with existence.

Louis Hissink

11 Jan 13 at 11:38 pm
Man, this week has been a really bad week for lefties at the cat. There’s feathers flying everywhere.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:45 pm
Thanks, Helen. I should be OK, I’m miles from the range, but I have friends who are close to the range.

Louis
My father, brother and mother helped a National Sparks and Wildfire mate fight a fire in late 70s or early 80s at Glenbrook. His house was in the park so couldn’t get insurance (it was provided by his employer). The house at the end of the street, next door, burnt down and they lost pets ahd horses. His house was saved.

My father said it was terrifying. The fire through the crowns of the trees was like a train, burning embers blowing everywhere and falling from the treetops. He had one go down under the brim of his hat and onto his neck and it burnt him. Dad said he’d never been so frightened! He also said that the crown fire sucked the air away for a few seconds and that was frightening.

After the fire passed over, through the crowns of the trees, with trees exploding from the eucalyptus oil brought to combustion temperature, the ground fuel began to burn.

I wasn’t there. I was in my 20s. I’m also not that brave.

kae

11 Jan 13 at 11:46 pm
There was a grassfire up the hill from me several years ago. I drove up to see if I could help, but I was useless as the smoke from the grassfire burned my eyes and throat and I couldn’t do anything. I went home and left the men with garden hoses to save my friend’s home. (They put the fire out in the grass and it didn’t reach the house and garden.)

kae

11 Jan 13 at 11:48 pm
Amazingly, they are also among the most humorless people on the planet.

Yes. They sit in reverent silence while watching Stewart and Colbert.

Who, incidentally, provide commentary, not “news”.

steve from brisbane

11 Jan 13 at 11:51 pm
“Gillard all over the news announcing the Royal Commission. Six commissioners and two years (before the inevitable extensions). Anyone want to hazard a guess at what this will cost?

Net result will be right up there with KRudd saying sorry to the black fellas.”

That degenerate heading up her half hour publicity service tonight at 7pm with an attack on an institution which is important to me was sickening. How dare that lying scum preach with such contrived sincerity about morality.

I saw Bob Collins’ name further up the page here, beloved of the Comrades and feared for good reason by children. All the others came to mind – Wright, Orkopoulos, D’Arcy – and I wondered why she doesn’t put that splendid ALP central-to-party-platform policy up for public examination too.

For the next year or two this will be a festival for the “journalists”, another dissolute cadre which ever so successfully protects its own filthy brothers from scrutiny.

What a rotten, festering disease these parasites bring to daily life in Australia.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

11 Jan 13 at 11:52 pm
Shitfer learnt everything he knows about France from ‘Allo ‘Allo.

Infidel tiger

11 Jan 13 at 11:53 pm
Right stepford, those two comedians don’t talk about anything that’s topical at that time.

JC

11 Jan 13 at 11:54 pm
Amazingly, they are also among the most humorless people on the planet.

By whose bloody standard? They make a fortune being comedians. They must be funny to millions of people ipso facto they are funny. Fine, you don’t think they are funny but who made you Lord and Chief of Comedy?

John H.

11 Jan 13 at 11:57 pm
By whose bloody standard? They make a fortune being comedians. They must be funny to millions of people ipso facto they are funny. Fine, you don’t think they are funny but who made you Lord and Chief of Comedy?

Good God. You may be a “genius” but your comprehension is borderline retarded.

Read my comment again – slowly this time – and find out to whom I was referring — who was the subject of my sentence?

By the way, speaking of “borderline retarded”, any plans to retract your claim above, that “most people” want to see guns banned, which I handily debunked?

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
If you look at the original comment, it’s the audience of po-faced progressives who are humourless, not the artistes…

Cold-Hands

12 Jan 13 at 12:09 am
Jon Stewart’s comedy is an echo chamber for lefties. It’s smug central and a complete circle jerk.

No wonder the north Brisbane nob gobbler loves it.

Abu Chowdah

12 Jan 13 at 12:11 am
More prosaically I’m listening to Glenn Miller on the Hi Fi, supping water contaminated by Irish Whisky, and reading the comments on the CAT.

So what force drives Steve from Brisbayne?

Louis Hissink

12 Jan 13 at 12:12 am
“By whose bloody standard? They make a fortune being comedians.”

Oh, you treat money as applause?

Mike Tyson was paid more than any other boxer during the period that he damaged the sport more than any other before or after.

Your prime minister earns – oops – is paid more money than the US president’s job pays. She made it possible for one of her ex boyfriends to make a lot of dough too. It belonged to other people but “make a fortune” he did.

What’s to not like about that? Or about her man Comrade Craig Pantsdown pulling a fortune owned by other people, for whom he served. Comrade Slippery Pete has his hand deep in your pocket too, enhancing his fortune still – good on him I say.

Fat Al has jagged millions in income peddling a lie to the feeble minded and impressionable young.

Yeah, making good coin is the measure alright.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

12 Jan 13 at 12:16 am
Hey, I hear that the antioxidants we were last year ordered to take in order to prevent cancer, now make cancer worse.

But aspirin and vitamin C. W00T. They’re the ticket this year. Oh yes they are.

Yay pop-sci.

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 12:17 am
Bob Brown pontificates on the Whitehaven Fraud.

“CEOs of fossil energy companies know what they are doing and are aware of long-term consequences of continued business as usual. In my opinion, these CEOs should be tried for high crimes against humanity and nature.’’

That was not me nor Christine Milne speaking in the Senate. It is a quote from the testimony of James Hansen, head of NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies in New York …

It is in Hansen’s context that I see the former National Party leader Mark Vaile’s bellowing about the sharemarket upset resulting from Jonathan Moylan’s false news release last week. But it is Moylan, not Vaile, who faces public ostracism and legal action and, speculation has it, may end up in jail.
…
History is full of this. Gandhi and Mandela went to jail. Martin Luther King was assassinated. Jesus Christ turned up at the businessmen’s tables and look what happened to him. Anti-slavery campaigner John Brown’s ‘’body lies mouldering in the grave’’ and suffragette Emily Davidson was killed when she ran in front of the horses at the 1913 Epsom Derby.

Well clearly we’ve got a living prophet in our midst, ready to be martyred by the forces of Big Coal. Obviously Bob’s ocean voyage hasn’t affected his sense of proportion.

H/T Tim Blair

Cold-Hands

12 Jan 13 at 12:44 am
…Emily Davidson was killed when she ran in front of the horses at the 1913 Epsom Derby…

Any chance of Nicola Roxon taking a careless stroll during the Caulfield Cup?

C.L.

12 Jan 13 at 1:00 am
Roxon would be more likely to get a run in the Epsom.

Or at least get a gig pulling a cart of beer kegs.

Infidel tiger

12 Jan 13 at 1:10 am
m0nty has been running around out there pantsless for nigh on 24 hours now.

I’m starting to get a little concerned.

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 1:12 am
north Brisbane nob gobbler

FFS he’s a nob gobbler, bread thief, child scarer and QC. get it right.

Tiny Dancer

12 Jan 13 at 1:34 am
Jon Stewart summarizes gun lobby paranoia:

“Now I get it, now I see what’s happening,” he said. “Their paranoid fear of a possible dystopic future prevents us from addressing our actual dystopic present.” We can’t do anything, he added, because the right is too worried about the rise of “imaginary Hitler.”

This is an amazingly stupid comment even setting aside his claim that we live in an “actual dystopic present”. Stewart is essentially saying that the First Congress of the US were collectively paranoid since each of the first 10 amendments to the US constitution evinces a fear of the possible engagements of future Federal governments.

BTW, why was this argument never raised by Leftists like Stewart, etc. during the Bush presidency in relation to rendition, etc. where they feared of the possible consequences of denying alleged terrorist suspects their fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth amendment rights?

We’re they also “too worried[/paranoid] about the rise of “imaginary Hitler”?

dover_beach

12 Jan 13 at 1:51 am
Correction: Were they also…

dover_beach

12 Jan 13 at 1:53 am
By the way, speaking of “borderline retarded”, any plans to retract your claim above, that “most people” want to see guns banned, which I handily debunked?

No you didn’t. That people support the NRA does not mean they wish to live in a societies with guns all over the place. The USA might love to have guns awash all over the place but many others don’t. The question should be: which is preferable: a society with lots of guns or a society with few guns. The NRA popularity is a hopeless proxy and a poll released just today found 54% wanted something done about semi-automatic weapons.

As for the aspirin vitamin C j ibe. Tell me, how many studies have you read on this? And explain why Ross Walker, an Ausralian cardiologist, only this week, recommended that for 80% the popn over 50 100mg of aspirin a day is recommended. So you know better than the cardiologists now? So you reject all the peer reviewed literature on this do you? Then avoid modern medicine.

John H.

12 Jan 13 at 2:00 am
a poll released just today found 54% wanted something done about semi-automatic weapons.

I would take these polls more seriously if respondents:(i)actually knew what the current arrangements were; (ii) actually specified what they wanted to be done; and (iii) actually new what semi-automatic weapons were.

dover_beach

12 Jan 13 at 2:08 am
Nobody (except lefty wankers like the Pinkenba Sewer Rat) gives a fat rat’s arse what those US TV alleged “comedians” Colbert, Letterman, Stewart et al have to contribute to any serious debate except for a cheap giggle.

Sideshow Bob and Krusty the Clown are usually more topical, funnier, and have the very great advantage of not emitting copious clouds of smug.

Pedro the Ignorant

12 Jan 13 at 2:10 am
The question should be: which is preferable: a society with lots of guns or a society with few guns?

A society with lots of guns, mostly in the hands of citizens. Next question.

…a poll released just today found 54% wanted something done about semi-automatic weapons.

Recent polls have also established that abortion on demand is now opposed by most Americans.

When will it be banned?

Late-term abortion facility opens in Dallas.

Fairmount abortion center relocates to new facility with new name and new mission: To perform as many as 2,000 late-term abortions in Dallas every year.

That alone makes Sandy Hook look like amateur hour.

According to the CDC [PDF], 31264 late term abortions a year are conducted in the United States. Leftists are completely comfortable – indeed proud – of this Hitlerian massacre.

C.L.

12 Jan 13 at 2:24 am
A society with lots of guns, mostly in the hands of citizens. Next question.

A poll of one.

John H.

12 Jan 13 at 2:27 am
a poll released just today found 54% wanted something done about semi-automatic weapons

Any chance of you linking to that poll?

The last one I saw phrased it as “Should the government do something about semi-automatic assault weapons” …

Given that “assault weapon” is a made-up political term, and the vast bulk of semi-automatic weapons would not fit the made-up political definition of “assault weapon” that we used last time around, I have trouble taking any of that crap seriously.

Another recent poll showed that many people favor strong restrictions on the purchase of automatic rifles and machine guns. Which is easily accomplished, since such restrictions have been in place since the late 1920s…

Anyway what is this “something” that “they” want “done” about “semi-automatic weapons”? Ban them, like in Chicago? Yeah, how’s that working out then?

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 2:36 am
Barky’s Chicago: a gun-control model in action. 14 homicides so far this year.

Jan. 9
– Johnny Taylor, a 23 year old unknown male, caused by a gunshot in West Garfield Park.

Jan. 8
– Darvelle Brown, a 24 year old black male, caused by a gunshot in West Garfield Park.

>
Jan. 8
– Tyshawn Blanton, a 31 year old black male, caused by a gunshot in Near North Side.

>
Jan. 6
– Lavonshay Cooper, a 22 year old black male, caused by a gunshot in Lower West Side.

>
Jan. 6
– Marcus Turner, a 19 year old black male, caused by a gunshot in Chatham.

>
Jan. 5
– Taison Moore, a 33 year old black male, caused by a stabbing in West Garfield Park.

>
Jan. 5
– Name Unknown, a black male, caused by a gunshot in West Englewood.

>
Jan. 5
– Angela Welch, a 55 year old black female, caused by a stabbing in South Chicago.

>
Jan. 5
– David Kartzmark, a 25 year old white male, caused by a gunshot in West Town.

>
Jan. 3
– Michael Kozel, a 57 year old white male, caused by a gunshot in Gage Park.

>
Jan. 2
– Ulysses Gissendanner, a 19 year old black male, caused by a gunshot in West Pullman.

>
Oh, wait. Two of those were stabbings. Best we ban knives as well.

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 2:43 am
John, should police carry guns?

Apparently the talking point du jour is that they’re useless for self-defence.

So tell me: why should a policeman (or a member of the Obama Department of Education’s SWAT teams) carry guns?

C.L.

12 Jan 13 at 2:43 am
link: http://tinyurl.com/yzgc62c
for some reason this blog won’t allow the full url.

sdog

12 Jan 13 at 2:44 am
John, should police carry guns?

CL, I stated here earlier today that I don’t think gun control is the solution. I provided links yesterday showing how when recent attempts at shootings were made and stopped by armed individuals this was not widely reported. DD provided another link pointing to that. My point was to illustrate that the MSM is playing games with us on this issue. So I don’t give a shit about the MSM reporting let alone what comedians may say about the issue.

Yes, I want the police to carry weapons. I have no sympathy for a burglar who got shot in the attempt. I told you that story sometime earlier about when I was a teenager and heard someone in the house so I picked up the largest knife I could find and went ahunting. I scared the shit out of that person and fortunately that prevented the theft of my mother’s jewellery. My father was away at work at the time and to this day I can remember turning on the light in my mother’s room holding this bloody big knife and looking. I was terrified, at 15 you tend to be terrified when you know someone has burgled your house and you suspect they are in your mother’s room. After I returned from squash practice the next morning my mother said someone had opened the drawer containing her jewellery. I would do that again. I have no problem with violence to stop criminals. I think the “proportional force” legal argument is bloody stupid. When your life is threatened you don’t have time to work proportional force.

The problem with the self-defense argument is the requirement to lock up the weapons. In my situation above, there were rifles in the house but hey in the middle of night you don’t have that much time to get the weapon, load it, and shoot in the dark. The solution is easy though: yes lock up the guns but allow individuals to have at least one weapon near at hand. End of self-defense problem. Is there anything wrong with that idea?

But don’t keep the weapon near the phone at the bedside. There was a Darwin Award for a chap who woke up one night because the phone was ringing. Dreary, he picked up the pistol instead and shot himself.

CL, I have no clear idea what the USA needs to do here. I’m not particularly interested in that question, I’m more interested in why so many are going postal of late. Has the spike in mental illness accounted for this? To some extent perhaps but I want to understand that spike.

John H.

12 Jan 13 at 3:15 am
Potemkin’s Village

Suppose you worked at Waigani… here

Grigory Potemkin

12 Jan 13 at 3:17 am
Bit late to hear this isn’t it?

The US Department of Homeland Security warned Thursday that a flaw in Java software is so dangerous that people should stop using it.

John H.

12 Jan 13 at 3:34 am
Abbott can’t shut down the Royal Commission – the bleating would be deafening.

But he can tweak it? – downgrade some aspects and include others of far more current significance (such as child sexual abuse in remote aboriginal communities).

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

12 Jan 13 at 7:17 am
Lizzie, a RC is just the consequence of an Act of Parliament, so in theory an incoming government could do anything it liked. But, what with the Senate and the wailing of vested interests if it was tried, don’t hold your breath.

I am particularly concerned about the promise of compensation, which is the standard response of the Feds these days – buy people off with taxpayers’ money, after a long and expensive process. Don’t actually fix anything, or punish wrongdoers – just hurl money around like confetti and feel like Gandhi or MLK – oh wait, Jonathan Moylan already has dibs on that.

Gah!

johanna

12 Jan 13 at 7:27 am
Budget austerity? Yeah, right. The socialists want to throw around even more of other people’s money fixing the lifestyle problems of unemployed Greens-ALP voters:

THE Gillard government has begun modelling a suite of measures to assist those on unemployment benefits, amid a growing cabinet push to deliver an increase to the Newstart Allowance payment in this year’s budget.

The move is designed to help the most vulnerable people on Newstart, including single mothers who were forced on to the payment after Labor tightened eligibility for the single-parent payment.

The Weekend Australian can reveal that one option being modelled is to allow Newstart recipients to keep more of their payments if their number of hours of paid work increases. This option is gaining strong support inside the government because it maintains the “work first” policy while giving unemployed people incentives to look for work.

A second option is for a more “moderate” increase in the dole; not the full $50 a week being pushed by welfare advocates and the Greens. This would cost the budget less, but still offer some relief to those on the low payment.

The last option is a suite of options to help single mothers who will be forced on to Newstart when their youngest child turns eight. A senior source said this option could involve more education and childcare options for those mothers.

Tom

12 Jan 13 at 7:46 am
I trust you are suitably outraged by comments such as this, Tom?:

If we are to expect the unemployed to search for employment with confidence, there is no point pushing them into grinding poverty.

steve from brisbane

12 Jan 13 at 8:21 am
A major flaw with Newstart, (from what I remember, things could have changed) is that to ‘access’ specific help through job agencies and what have you is the requirement that you have to have been receiving benefit payments for 6 months. You are actually encouraged to sit on your arse. You also can’t access help for retraining or specific certification courses for 6 months. Bit of a joke really.

Of course, these agencies don’t really do anything that you can’t do yourself, they exist only to ascertain your integrity. For which they require, depending on how far you have to travel, upto 2 hours out of your life, adding to the compliance cost. Swannie changed it so you can claim travel related expenses to find a job…

The whole system is a big bloody joke.

Dan

12 Jan 13 at 8:25 am
It seems the idiot Milne is now calling for minute’s silence in Parliament to mark the tragic passing of Dennis Ferguson, a harmless victim hounded to his death…
Christ, someone deliver us from this nightmare.

Tracey

12 Jan 13 at 8:51 am
Dan, it’s a down-market, low-rent, shitkicker colonial version of the Obama campaign: having finally, officially disavowed fisal responsibility as an objective, they will spend however much of our money they reckon it will take to buy enough votes of minorities and women to get them over the line in an election. McTernan’s 2013 election slogan will be: “Who’s Your Daddy?” It’s a cynical, blatant vote-buying exercise.

Tom

12 Jan 13 at 8:56 am
The Obama administration is considering funding many more police officers in public schools to secure campuses …

Via Instapundit, who notes: “Wait, weren’t the lefty pundits telling us that only an idiot NRA shill would endorse this idea?”

It’s always different when they suggest it.

Gab

12 Jan 13 at 9:01 am
Milne is now calling for minute’s silence in Parliament to mark the tragic passing of Dennis Ferguson

Tracey, that’s a Tim Blair prank.

Tom

12 Jan 13 at 9:04 am
After noticing the prohibitionist tendencies of this government, seeing them as a natural ally, he felt the next step was obvious:

A radical sheik … has called for Australia to become an Islamic state ruled by sharia law …

Sheik Ismail Al-Wahwah, the Australian head of extremist Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir, suggested during a Christmas Eve sermon that jihad should be used to implement hardline teachings …

He said under an Islamic government, alcohol would be banned, a strict dress code enforced for all Australians and languages other than Arabic banned in schools.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/sheik_wahwah/

Gab

12 Jan 13 at 9:07 am
Oh, thank God. Stupid me. Sorry all.

Tracey

12 Jan 13 at 9:07 am
Tracey, don’t feel bad. As many on Tim’s site have commented, the problem with his strategy is – how can you tell which ones are fake?

johanna

12 Jan 13 at 10:12 am

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