Open Forum: January 12, 2013

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1,075 Responses to Open Forum: January 12, 2013

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  1. Pedro

    JULIA Gillard has used shootings in Sydney and street clashes in Brisbane to flag a new national approach to dealing with violence in suburban Australia trashing of the constitution.

  2. steve from brisbane

    Gun figures are all being argued as “no correlation” in order to avoid the common sense points that:

    * the US has had a series of high profile mass shootings involving mentally disturbed white guys with assault weapons

    * the Obama administration seeks to reduce access to assault weapons by improving background checks, reducing the number of high capacity magazines available to anyone, and the availability of assault weapons.

    These moves would formally, not so many years ago, have been called (even by a substantial number of Republicans) sensible measures in the wider public interest.

    It is a sign of the nutjobbery that has taken over control of the Right that all such measures are being opposed by crap arguments based on paranoia and insistence that there is really is no problem at all relating to guns in the US.

  3. @duncann
    Yep, and none of them have a gun homicide rate anywhere near that of the USA (2.97 – 21 times Australia, 6 times Ireland, 49 times France and 4 times Italy).
    Thanks for highlighting my point.

  4. .

    What sort of a stupid world would it be if you could sue the govt for the damage done to you by legitimately passed laws. Dan, that’s nuts.

    Pedro

    Every law that is challenged is first legitimately passed.

    You only need have one clause of the entire Act to be invalid and you may have a cause of action.

    Having Government pay for externalities they create just like citizens are meant to would be fair and efficient.

  5. steve from brisbane

    formerly, not “formally”

  6. Having no link simply means I don’t consider you worthy of keeping tabs on.

    No – it means you’re bullshitting (as usual).
    Put up or shut up….

  7. It is a sign of the nutjobbery that has taken over control of the Right that all such measures are being opposed by crap arguments based on paranoia and insistence that there is really is no problem at all relating to guns in the US.

    Well put.
    That same nutjobbery is present here in spades.

  8. JC

    the US has had a series of high profile mass shootings involving mentally disturbed white guys with assault weapons

    define assault weapons.

    * the Obama administration seeks to reduce access to assault weapons by improving background checks, reducing the number of high capacity magazines available to anyone, and the availability of assault weapons.

    How does that stop

    high profile mass shootings involving mentally disturbed white guys with assault weapons

    These moves would formally, not so many years ago, have been called (even by a substantial number of Republicans) sensible measures in the wider public interest.

    But how do they limit, reduce , stop:

    high profile mass shootings involving mentally disturbed white guys with assault weapons

    It is a sign of the nutjobbery that has taken over control of the Right that all such measures are being opposed by crap arguments based on paranoia and insistence that there is really is no problem at all relating to guns in the US.

    Not true. We recognize that at the moment the US is a violent place which means law abiding citizens can avail themselves of their constitutional right to own guns.

  9. Fuck off.
    No – having too much fun:-)

  10. Dan

    I’m not arguing the legitimacy of laws being passed, I’m saying that laws that endanger people should be contested.

  11. Gab

    The policy or attempt at dealing with suburban violence would be favourably received

    Funny but I thought we already had laws against violence. There’s absolutley no need for the federal government to stick it’s ever ubiquitous nose into something it has no business interfering with and let the laws as they exist, and the judicial system, deal with acts of violence. gillard is just opportunistically grandstanding and people who have little clue just latch onto the emotive motherhood statements she dishes out, ad nauseum, as if gillard was some pomo prophet. Hopefully, the opposition will stay well away from this farce.

  12. steve from brisbane

    means law abiding citizens can avail themselves of their constitutional right to own guns.

    and, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, there has been no suggestion at all by any politician of note that Obama or Congress could prevent “law abiding citizens” owning a handgun.

  13. Dan

    … How laws are passed…

  14. Infidel Tiger

    No – having too much fun:-)

    Too retarded to use the blockquote properly.

  15. candy

    I know Gab but I fear the Libs will struggle to get elected with only a skeleton of policies.

  16. JC

    Look dickhead

    Of course the Kenyan is attempting to prevent law abiding citizens to own guns, otherwise why all the commotion about gun control.

    Do you even understand what the fuck you post as comments, Stepford?

  17. Gab

    Quantify “skeleton”, Candy. And tell me exactly how many policies should they have, as you appear to be of the quantity not quality set.

  18. .

    Behold stupid lefties, below is the most authoritative statement ever on gun control from the cat:

    @duncann
    Yep, and none of them have a gun homicide rate anywhere near that of the USA (2.97 – 21 times Australia, 6 times Ireland, 49 times France and 4 times Italy).
    Thanks for highlighting my point.

    They also have 500 000 people in gaol for drug related crimes.

    Moron.

    Bloody hell. Even Fatso Mick Moore in BFC says that guns don’t cause violence, across the great lakes in Canada there is more gun ownership but a better culture (his thesis is also crap, a military based manufacturing industry and tough times due to “neoliberal” outsourcing makes people…turn into murderers).

    It’s also sickening “statistics” (read: massged data) presented here before included war casulties! (a swipe at poor dumb old Bush) but didn’t include casulaties from the DRUG WAR (which the conservatives started, but Obama prosecutes with vigour). Fuck me this is the height of arrogant stupidity.

    Gun figures are all being argued as “no correlation” in order to avoid the common sense points that:

    All basically irrelevant from what I said before:

    Most of these already exist. Mass shootings would not have been materially affected by a magazine limit.

    and:

    The amount of homicides, second degree and first degree (for various reasons), serial killers and mass shootings due to the actions of an otherwise law abiding gun owner, and that would be prevented by more gun control, are negligible, less likely than a random individual being struck by lightning and hit by a car, and are effectively zero.

    Most of the murders that do occur are drug related.

    If you really wanted to reduce gun violence and mass shootings, you’d actually lock up crazy people (derided by the left as wrong for “institutionalising”
    people), change the rules of engagement for police so they can go in earlier (unlike Columbine, everyone was already dead for hours), allow any US police or military veteran of good character with a clean record and honourable discharge to have open carry permits, allow school security guards to be armed, apply the death penalty unambiguously to aggravated murderers of a sound mind and end the insane and counterproductive drug war.

    Gun control isn’t going to work. There is more than one gun per household. It is not feasible to confiscate them.

    Everything else I mention above, has a track record of working in the US or elsewhere.

  19. define assault weapons

    An assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. An assault weapon may have a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.
    These features are often included so that the resemblance to a military firearm gells neatly with fantasies indulged in by the gun wankers.
    They don’t make the weapon any more lethal, but they say heaps about the mentality of an individual who needs to own something that looks deadly to feel good about him/herself.
    Pathetic.

  20. Pedro

    Mark, it takes a law to give you compensation for the effects of another law. There is no inherent right to sue the govt because a law was legitimately passed. A statute that is invalidated was never legitimately passed, if it was, it couldn’t be invalidated as statutes are only invalid through want or power or failure of process.

  21. stackja

    C.L. 13 Jan 13 at 12:40 am iron bar thrower in court mother on radio today told everyone ‘to piss off’ nice family it seems.

  22. Pedro

    “I’m not arguing the legitimacy of laws being passed, I’m saying that laws that endanger people should be contested.”

    Then write to your MP. But I read you earlier saying that people harmed by clearing restrictions ought to sue for compensation, which they can’t, unless there is a law providing for it.

  23. .

    Having no link simply means I don’t consider you worthy of keeping tabs on.

    No – it means you’re bullshitting (as usual).
    Put up or shut up….

    Ah no arseclown. We caught you out lying on both issues (being from ‘da bush’ and your made up lies about being threatened with a gun) and it just led to more dissembling.

    Everyone remembers, no one gives a fuck about what url is needed to show the record.

  24. steve from brisbane @
    16 Jan 13 at 12:11 pm

    SoB has kind words to say about his fellow New Communists who move into beautiful areas, get onto council and stop the locals from protecting their properties.

    They are not interested in suing anyone.

    And again the ingrained democracy = mob rule interpretation.

    And those who didn’t agree with Council can’t sue them for talking a decision they disagreed with.

    When your rulers are wrong, just suck it up…

    you are also going to be hard pressed to say conclusively that anyone is negligent for the advice they have given governments.

    You’d have to have rocks in your head to believe a New Communist wouldn’t be lining up for a free hand out in spite of the fact they voted for the destruction. Their entire ideology is based on free handouts coerced from the productive.

  25. .

    These features are often included so that the resemblance to a military firearm gells neatly with fantasies indulged in by the gun wankers.

    Hey cock you got your army buddy to show a military grade self loading rifle to the kids at a school for chlidren with special needs, didn’t you?

  26. .

    Tolerant Leftist Elevates the Political Discourse by Releasing Video Game that Lets Players Shoot the NRA’s President in the Head

    Respect Gab, it’s all about da respect.

  27. across the great lakes in Canada there is more gun ownership but a better culture

    Rubbish – at 30.8 per 100 in Canada ownership is less than half the rate in the USA (88.8).

  28. C.L.

    The most beautiful thing one could see this year, politically, would be an ATF agent being handcuffed and frogmarched to a cell by Texas Rangers.

  29. Everyone remembers, no one gives a fuck about what url is needed to show the record.

    No. As usual, you made it up.
    Put up or shut up.

  30. .

    Well he meant there are less gun deaths per ownership, it has been a long time since I watched.

    Stop the bullshit numbers.

    Guns don’t make people violent. The US and USSR held nuclear weapons for 50 years and never used them on anyone bar the Japanese.

    Why did you show a bunch of retarded kids an assault rifle if they make people kill other people?

  31. Old Fridgie

    An assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. An assault weapon may have a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.
    These features are often included so that the resemblance to a military firearm gells neatly with fantasies indulged in by the gun wankers.
    They don’t make the weapon any more lethal, but they say heaps about the mentality of an individual who needs to own something that looks deadly to feel good about him/herself.

    Good use of Wiki numbers – Pathetic!

  32. Gab

    Obama Has Increased the Debt 60%,So Let’s Talk About Guns

    Flashback 2006:

    OBAMA: Guys, ok, I have to go vote. It’s a sad state of affairs. We just voted to increase the debt limit. The US total debt at this point exceeds eight trillion dollars. That’s eight trillion, with a T. So we’ve gotta get our fiscal house in order here in Washington. I’m not sure it’s gonna happen under the current leadership in Congress.

  33. a military grade self loading rifle

    The Steyr F88 is an automatic rifle – not an SLR.
    And I don’t need to own one – nothing to prove….

  34. .

    Everyone remembers, no one gives a fuck about what url is needed to show the record.

    No. As usual, you made it up.
    Put up or shut up.

    No cock.

    You asserted that you were from ‘da baush’ whilst actually teaching near the coast not far outside of a regional centre.

    You also asserted you only saw a gun once at school, whilst being threatened, whilst at the same time, as much as you hate “gun wankers’ and your claims that guns make people violent, particularly the mentally ill, you had your mate from the Army turn up to a school for tards and show them a military grade self laoding rifle.

    Cock.

  35. Gab

    Good use of Wiki numbers – Pathetic!

    Call it for what it is – plagiarizing.

  36. C.L.

    Extremist Monash Uni feminist: ‘women’s rights’ means criminals should not be punished for killing a woman’s unborn child.

    Moves to protect unborn babies set to spark debate.

    A FAMILY First MP will push for national laws he says will better protect unborn babies and their mothers.

    The move comes after a pregnant woman and her unborn baby were killed in a car crash in Adelaide. The driver was charged with one count of causing death by dangerous driving as South Australian law does not recognise the foetus as a person.

    State MP Robert Brokenshire will introduce a private member’s Bill to the South Australian Parliament, and told news.com.au that he then hopes to push for nationally consistent legislation on foetal homicide.

    However, the moves to change the legal status of foetuses have been labelled “sneaky” and “backhanded” attempts to change abortion laws and challenge women’s rights

    Prominent author and columnist Dr Leslie Cannold, an adjunct at Monash University’s Gender, Leadership and Social Sustainability Research Unit, said people who were anti-choice on abortion were “desperate, desperate, desperate” to change the laws on foetuses and that it was “sneaky, backhanded”.

    “It’s no accident that every time (these laws) get proposed it’s by organisations like Family First who are known to be anti-choice,” she said.

    “To me that speaks volumes. They’ve gone at it directly before by attacking women’s right to choose, and now they’re going by the back door.

    “Either they’re silly or they think we are. Everyone knows that the minute you pass legislation you are no longer in control of how a future Parliament or future judiciary will interpret it.”

  37. a bunch of retarded kids

    Arrogant prick.
    You’ve revealed your pig-ignorance right there. “Retarded” is a meaningless (and insulting term). Many kids with disabilities do not have any intellectual impairment. Your understanding of disability (like most of your value system) is straight out of the 19th century.

  38. .

    The Steyr F88 is an automatic rifle – not an SLR.

    It’s selective fire, actually, cock.

    Truly pathetic.

    Made up career, contribution to society and dissembling bullshit artist who can’t remember what he said three weeks ago.

    You are a pathetic worm.

    How old are you? 60 years old?

    You have the confabulation of a teenaged career crim with a massively inflated sense of self entitlement.

    There is no way in hell a sane parent would let you anywhere near their kids. They would have a better role model in a 19 year old street level drug dealer.

  39. Tom

    Dot, it was “compassionate” left infiltration of policy through the bureaucracy that insisted that the mentally ill (dangerous lunatics) should be assimilated into the community (allowed to walk the streets). To end the massacres committed by dangerous lunatics, the mentally ill — sorry, the left — want to disarm gun owners and ultimately the entire civilian population so that the state has a monopoly on the right to bear arms. And, being lovers of government, the mentally ill — sorry, the left — believes the government can always be totally trusted never to abuse its new monopoly on lethal force. The left has the reasoning of the mentally ill and the left controls the White House. FMD.

  40. .

    a bunch of retarded kids

    Arrogant prick.
    You’ve revealed your pig-ignorance right there. “Retarded” is a meaningless (and insulting term). Many kids with disabilities do not have any intellectual impairment. Your understanding of disability (like most of your value system) is straight out of the 19th century.

    I don’t actually care numbers. You’re the fuckwit who had a show and tell of a military rifle at special needs school, yet brag about not being a “gun wanker”.

    Fuckhead.

    Let me guess, some of these poor kids suffer from some mental illnesses?

    You are basically saying you’re right and we’re wrong because you chose a more PC term to describe retarded children.

    You really are a pathetic moron. You are now claiming victimhood status by proxy to stamp your feet and demand every concede you are right.

    Fuck off.

  41. .

    If you really wanted to reduce gun violence and mass shootings, you’d actually lock up crazy people (derided by the left as wrong for “institutionalising” people), change the rules of engagement for police so they can go in earlier (unlike Columbine, everyone was already dead for hours), allow any (in the US and elsewhere) police or military veteran of good character with a clean record and honourable discharge to have open carry permits, allow law abiding citizens to have concealed carry, allow school security guards to be armed, apply the death penalty unambiguously to aggravated murderers of a sound mind and end the insane and counterproductive drug war (in the US and elsewhere).

    Gun control isn’t going to work. There is more than one gun per household. It is not feasible to confiscate them.

    Everything else I mention above, has a track record of working in the US or elsewhere.

    Truer words have never been spoken.

  42. Eddystone

    An assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms.

    You forgot to include barrel shroud, you know, that shoulder thing that goes up.

  43. steve from brisbane

    believes the government can always be totally trusted never to abuse its new monopoly on lethal force.

    As Jon Stewart says, “imaginary Hitler” means guns shouldn’t be regulated. Or rather, further regulated, given that they already are so that, for example, fully automatics are prohibited.

    Fully automatic weapons would be a handy defence against imaginary Hitler, though.

    So Tom: should the American public, law abiding citizen subset, have the right to own fully automatic weapons?

  44. the mentally ill (dangerous lunatics)

    More pig ignorance. People with mental illness are only slightly more likely than the rest of the population to be violent. Substance abuse is a much more significant factor. People with no mental disorder who abuse alcohol or drugs are nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to report violent behavior. Should we lock up all the drunks?
    Your stereotyping also comes straight out of the last century.

  45. C.L.

    Wait, their guns weren’t in a safe?

    Bikie leader Zeljko ‘Steven’ Mitrovic killed in workplace execution.

    POLICE are hunting up to seven men in relation to the shooting murder of the high-ranking Hells Angels bikie…

    “One of the men then produced a pistol and fired a number of shots, hitting Mr Mitrovic and killing him at the scene.”

    Thankfully, Howard’s Tough Gun Laws make it impossible to get a pistol or wander around carrying one.

  46. @noname

    and demand every (sic) concede you are right.

    And you’re becoming incoherent (or more incoherent than usual).
    Put up or shut up.

  47. Eddystone

    should the American public, law abiding citizen subset, have the right to own fully automatic weapons?

    They already do, although heavily regulated.

    Why, what do you think fantasise would happen if they did?

  48. .

    As Jon Stewart says, “imaginary Hitler” means guns shouldn’t be regulated.

    This is gibberish and proves you really do need to complete a remedial English course.

    Fully automatic weapons would be a handy defence against imaginary Hitler, though.

    You can get them here in gun law paradise Australia.

    What’s bullshit is that you are not allowed to use them for self defence, even if you have another legitimate reason, and it is in the realm of castle doctrine.

    Hitler also survived many shooting attempts, bombings and poisonings.

    So Tom: should the American public, law abiding citizen subset, have the right to own fully automatic weapons?

    Of course they should, we have the right to do so here under employment circumstances.

    Gun control advocate, Diane Feinstein, believes she should have automatic weapons, concealed carry and even lied about being shot at to support her point of view.

  49. Gab

    Put up or shut up.

    I wish you’d just shut up, you boorish pig ignorant dolt.

  50. C.L.

    “I am absolutely horrified,” NSW RSL president Don Rowe said.

    Oh please. Settle down, you sanctimonious ninny.

    Liberal tosser Warren Entsch says this of the female staffer:

    “I thought they’d know better than to send something like that sort of shit,” he said.

    “They know I would rip them a second one. It’s mindless stupidity. It’s totally sick and inappropriate.”

  51. I wish you’d just shut up, you boorish pig ignorant dolt.

    And God bless you too…..

  52. Infidel Tiger

    So Tom: should the American public, law abiding citizen subset, have the right to own fully automatic weapons?

    Of course. A law abiding citizens should be allowed to own anything they want.

  53. .

    People with mental illness are only slightly more likely than the rest of the population to be violent.

    No. You fucking lying idiot. Why do you think the biggest and strongest nurses are usually chosen for mental health?

    You are actually saying that institutionalising people is bad for them and society? Rubbish. It is cruel to let them go. YOU are the one with the fucked up beatnik, 1950s attitude.

    A modern mental health facility is humane for the dangerously mentally ill and they get quality of life.

    Out on your own, without your meds, possibly self medicated and living in a dive with no support network, no money…oh but that is cruel.

    It does not enhance the liberty or welfare of anyone, including themselves to have the dangerously, strongly delusional and perhaps violent walking free, with little to no supervision or medication.

    And you’re becoming incoherent (or more incoherent than usual).
    Put up or shut up.

    Missing one word from a sentence makes more sense than your bullshit career and bullshit made up stories where one incident becomes two.

  54. Gab

    Obama to Announce Gun Ban Surrounded by Children


    Obama’s children are surrounded by a gun-toting detail. Good enough for his kids just not anyone else’s.

  55. Infidel Tiger

    “I am absolutely horrified,” NSW RSL president Don Rowe said.

    Stupid bastard must’ve had had his humour gland blown away by an IED.

    Australia is a very sick country.

  56. .

    “I am absolutely horrified,” NSW RSL president Don Rowe said.

    Harden the fuck up.

    We don’t have conscripts anymore.

    Submariners are paid better than most lawyers.

    If the military crumbles at a joke, we may as well roll out the red carpet for any industrious, revanchist and imperialist South Asian regime.

  57. steve from brisbane

    IT, your role here is to be a sweary comedy act with nutty libertarian ideas, with the odd exception or two. (It’s only because you don’t like Europeans that you are against the nutty open border policies of Sinclair.) Otherwise, we know you can be safely ignored on serious issues regarding the public good: you don’t need to re-confirm that all the time.

  58. .

    Liberal tosser Warren Entsch says this of the female staffer:

    “I thought they’d know better than to send something like that sort of shit,” he said.

    “They know I would rip them a second one. It’s mindless stupidity. It’s totally sick and inappropriate.”

    I thought he might have been hard when he was younger, but now he’s just a fat, crying softcock.

  59. .

    So says Steve, the Tony Abbot penis, vaginal microbiology and butt plug obsessed cardigan wearer who visits Pinkenba industrial estates for holidays.

  60. C.L.

    Beautiful new headline ensemble at DRUDGE:

    Vegas: 60,000 Expected To Attend Gun Show…
    Idaho: ‘People can hardly walk they’ve got so much stuff’…
    S Dakota: ‘Unprecedented demand’…
    Kentucky: ‘Store shelves bare’…
    Virginia: Lines Stretched for Hundreds of Yards…
    Citizens File Articles of Impeachment Against Obama…
    NRA membership grows by quarter million in one month…

  61. You are actually saying that institutionalising people is bad for them and society?

    No – you said that – you’re doing it again…putting words in my mouth. You’re not self-aware enough to recognise it – that’s listed in the DSM under “Delusion”.
    There is a place for institutionalisation, just as there is a place for community support. Glibertarians can’t abide either. Most want the mentally ill to simply disappear.
    You’ve also made some interesting generalisations about “modern mental health facilities”.
    Been inside one, have you?
    Put up or shut up….

  62. nic

    The Navy found they had too many officers and decided to offer an early retirement bonus. They promised any officer who volunteered for Retirement a bonus of $1,000 for every inch measured in a straight line between any Two points in his body.. The officer got to choose what those two points would be.

    The first officer who accepted asked that he be measured from the top of his head to the tip of his toes. He was measured at six feet and walked out with a bonus of $72,000.

    The second officer who accepted was a little smarter and asked to be measured from the tip of his outstretched hands to his toes. He walked Out with $96,000.

    The third one was a non-commissioned officer, a grizzly old Chief who, when asked where he would like to be measured replied, ‘From the tip of my weenie to my testicles.’

    It was suggested by the pension man that he might want to reconsider, explaining about the nice big cheques the previous two Officers had received.

    But the old Chief insisted and they decided to go along with him providing the measurement was taken by a Medical Officer.

    The Medical Officer arrived and instructed the Chief to ‘drop ‘em,’ which he did. The medical officer placed the tape measure on the tip of the Chief’s weenie and began to work back. “Dear Lord!”, he suddenly exclaimed, ”Where are your testicles?”

    The old Chief calmly replied, ” Vietnam ”.

  63. steve from brisbane

    I see we have Catallaxians up to supporting machine guns in the hands of any Joe Public.

    Can I get support for grenade launchers from anyone other than IT? They would be really, really handy for the time a whole posse of federal agents working for imaginary Hitler come to disarm your ranch.

  64. C.L.

    We can now say with absolute, incontrovertible accuracy that Barack Obama is personally responsible for the sale, distribution and ownership of more guns than anyone else in American history. And the state will NEVER get those guns back. EVER.

  65. Infidel Tiger

    Steve you’re are just upset because I look down on your depraved lifestyle.

  66. Sinclair Davidson

    I’ve opened up a new open forum.

  67. I’ve always fancied an M72, Steve. I’d need half a dozen at least, as they’re a single use weapon – Carl Gustav is a bit unwieldy…..
    What sort of world do these wankers inhabit?

  68. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    To me that speaks volumes. They’ve gone at it directly before by attacking women’s right to choose, and now they’re going by the back door.

    Is it just my little peurile mind, or can anyone else see the opportunity for a little play on words with this statement?

  69. Eddystone

    machine guns in the hands of any Joe Public.

    I see what you did there!

    should the American public, law abiding citizen subset, have the right to own fully automatic weapons?

    Gunliars can’t help themselves.

  70. I just want to put something out there about free speech. With the recent publishing of gun owners names and addresses it has been suggested to me that the paper could be sued if someone happened to use this to commit a crime and this would be quite easy in the US apparently. Could or does this lead to another method of censorship?

    I would argue it does and in a very significant manner. The paper published information that is publically available (after the authorities provided it). If we then extend some idea that a media organisation is responsible for any criminal activity due to the publication, this is censorship. There are many ways a criminal may use published information for example a rich list providing a list of possible targets. It can also mean that reporting corruption of the most serious kind could lead to being sued as reporting this could easily lead to the death of a suspected informant or killing of a law abiding citizen who might have gathered some of the information and gets found out.

    Now just to lighten my comment publishing of Union Leaders and Labor Party officials could provide contacts for those criminally inclined.

    The freedom of press index is not kind to the US in a relative sense.

  71. Alice

    JC bloody sinc banned me and i cant answer

  72. Aliceinwondeland

    OK lets see if zi Have a name change if I can post?

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