Wednesday Forum: January 16, 2013 at Catallaxy Files

Wednesday Forum: January 16, 2013

1,131 comments

Written by Sinclair Davidson

January 16th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

Posted in Open Forum

1,131 Responses to 'Wednesday Forum: January 16, 2013'

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Frist

Antipodean

16 Jan 13 at 2:16 pm
Tarzan call..

Steve of Glasshouse

16 Jan 13 at 2:20 pm
New NRA anti-Obama ad is a cracker.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 2:20 pm
Top 10 for the second time – whoo hoo!!!!!!!!!!

Huckleberry Chunkwot

16 Jan 13 at 2:24 pm
Beautiful new headline ensemble at DRUDGE:

Vegas: 60,000 Expected To Attend Gun Show…
Idaho: ‘People can hardly walk they’ve got so much stuff’…
S Dakota: ‘Unprecedented demand’…
Kentucky: ‘Store shelves bare’…
Virginia: Lines Stretched for Hundreds of Yards…
Citizens File Articles of Impeachment Against Obama…
NRA membership grows by quarter million in one month…

We can now say with absolute, incontrovertible accuracy that Barack Obama is personally responsible for the sale, distribution and ownership of more guns than anyone else in American history. And the state will NEVER get those guns back. EVER.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 2:25 pm
nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty nutty

Dogshit — the anonymous blogger without an audience who has to troll proper websites to insult people to get the minimum daily attention he requires to avoid lapsing into sexual stalking of strangers — announces he’s down to his last adjective as his single-cell amoebic brain has its figurative finger stuck on the repeat key…

Tom

16 Jan 13 at 2:28 pm
To me that speaks volumes. They’ve gone at it directly before by attacking women’s right to choose, and now they’re going by the back door.

Is it just my little peurile mind, or can anyone else see the opportunity for a little play on words with this statement?

This from the previous O/T in reference to this link from CL.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

16 Jan 13 at 2:30 pm
Don’t let ‘em get to you will you Tom!

Biota

16 Jan 13 at 2:31 pm
to avoid lapsing into sexual stalking of strangers

Yeah sure.

Although I did put up a photo of me in what look like undies at my blog recently. I am disappointed none of the women here have commented.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 2:34 pm
Pervert.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 2:36 pm
You’ve also made some interesting generalisations about “modern mental health facilities”.
Been inside one, have you?
Put up or shut up….

I’ve never been to gaol but I know they’re fucked up. I’ve never been fucked in the arse either, but I reckon the first time would hurt.

I don’t need to eat a shit pie to know it’s made of shit.

You have a ridiculous idea that nuthouses are like the awful places they were in the 1950s.

They are the safest, best place for the dangerously mentally ill to live. Period.

You don’t want to lock the dangerously mentally ill up numbers, you also just don’t want to admit it.

Then you blame gun ownership when they massacre people.

Fuckhead. There’s a correlation for you. Mass shootings correlate perfectly with “de-institutionalisation”.

Nothing to do with the prevalence of guns.

.

16 Jan 13 at 2:37 pm
I am disappointed none of the women here have commented.

They vomited.

Lord, you’re a beta male stepford.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 2:38 pm
I am disappointed none of the women here have commented.

Maybe after they catch their breath from laughing.

Sinclair Davidson

16 Jan 13 at 2:38 pm
Swan puts the $AUD through the roof by borrowing $262 billion. Gillard introduces a massive electricity tax. One of the faceless men suddenly realises they’re perhaps not the right policy settings:

THIS year will be a make or break period for manufacturing in Australia and a “swift and drastic” response will be needed from government to ensure the survival of the sector, says union chief Paul Howes.

Speaking after Boral announced today it would shed 700 jobs, the Australian Workers Union boss said it had been a “shocking start to the year” for the manufacturing sector.

The announcement by the building products manufacturer of 700 redundancies across all levels of its business operations follows BlueScope Steel’s decision on Monday to cut 170 jobs from its Western Port steel mill.

“We know that Australian manufacturing is being hit for six, with the Australian dollar sitting at $1.06 (USD) as it is today, with record levels of illegal trade dumping occurring in this country at the moment,” Mr Howes said.

“We know that 2013 will be the making or breaking year for the future of Australian manufacturing.”

Mr Howes called for a greater focus on the manufacturing sector, which he said employed five times as many people as the mining industry.

“We want Australia to remain a country that makes things and the reality is Australia can’t be a country that makes things if we put all our eggs in the resources basket,” he said.

Tom

16 Jan 13 at 2:41 pm
Although I did put up a photo of me in what look like undies at my blog recently. I am disappointed none of the women here have commented.

Time for a bit of truth or dare people.
How many of you went to the pervert’s blog to look for the photo once you read his post?
Honest show of hands please.
You do realise that he posts that sort of shit in order to drive traffic to his pathetic little blog? Don’t give the pervert the satisfaction.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

16 Jan 13 at 2:43 pm
I hear ya Huck.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 2:44 pm
I just want to put something out there about free speech. With the recent publishing of gun owners names and addresses it has been suggested to me that the paper could be sued if someone happened to use this to commit a crime and this would be quite easy in the US apparently. Could or does this lead to another method of censorship?

I would argue it does and in a very significant manner. The paper published information that is publically available (after the authorities provided it). If we then extend some idea that a media organisation is responsible for any criminal activity due to the publication, this is censorship. There are many ways a criminal may use published information for example a rich list providing a list of possible targets. It can also mean that reporting corruption of the most serious kind could lead to being sued as reporting this could easily lead to the death of a suspected informant or killing of a law abiding citizen who might have gathered some of the information and gets found out.

Now just to lighten my comment publishing of Union Leaders and Labor Party officials could provide contacts for those criminally inclined.

The freedom of press index is not kind to the US in a relative sense.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 2:45 pm
“We want Australia to remain a country that makes things and the reality is Australia can’t be a country that makes things if we put all our eggs in the resources basket,” he said.

KIDS

This is why you want to go past Year 9 at school, as a general case.

.

16 Jan 13 at 2:47 pm
“We want Australia to remain a country that makes things

What sort of things?

Buggered if I want my kids future to be working a factory. The Chinese are doing everything they can to make sure their kids don’t either.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 2:50 pm
This is going to end in tears.

There’s a really good reason why nearly all of tech has very little debt.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/the-challenges-of-taking-dell-private/

JC

16 Jan 13 at 2:53 pm
Dot ” KIDS

This is why you want to go past Year 9 at school, as a general case.”

BUT the ALP likes ‘em dumb ; it maintains their voting base

Steve of Glasshouse

16 Jan 13 at 2:59 pm
Did I mention the photo was circa 1962? Whoops, must have forgotten that…

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 3:01 pm
Yea right, like they weren’t prompted by their layabout demorat parents.

Obama will begin this effort Wednesday in the presence of children who wrote him letters after last month’s mass shooting at a grade school in Newtown, Conn., and who have been invited to Washington to attend the rollout.

I can see it now…5 year old kid.

Dear Mr. Kenyan:

I’m Cynthia from San Francisco California and 5 years old.

After the terrible massacre in CT could you please do your best to ban semi-automatic assault rifles, large magazines and please make sure that everyone is fully vetted through an FBI background check even when guns are privately sold.
Thanks

Cynthia

JC

16 Jan 13 at 3:04 pm
Obama will begin this effort Wednesday in the presence of children who wrote him letters after last month’s mass shooting at a grade school in Newtown, Conn., and who have been invited to Washington to attend the rollout.

And the elephantine irony in the room?

They will all be guarded by dozens of pistols and machine guns.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 3:07 pm
What happened to you Steve, you used to be a weirdo, now your just a cnut

Dan

16 Jan 13 at 3:07 pm
Wow , the Kenyan really means business then. He must be thinking of seeing Eric Holder and parts of the DOJ out of the fast and furious business then.

Bruce Reed, Vice President Biden’s chief of staff, told liberal activists late Tuesday that Obama’s package would also include a federal gun trafficking measure to stop straw-man purchases and crack down on trafficking rings after a number of mayors raised the issue, said a person familiar with the plan.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 3:07 pm
If one job goes … So when does Paul Howes sell his house?

Carbon Emitter

16 Jan 13 at 3:16 pm
the RBA has been working on creating new bank notes for the past five years.

The project, called Next Generation Bank Note, is more than two years behind schedule and has so far cost $9.3 million.

Designers were supplied with new portraits of the notes’ subjects and asked to capture Australian characteristics with “youthful” and “energetic design qualities”, it says.

Another waste of money. The pre-decimal note designs were good for what, over fifty years. The paper decimal notes were fine for close to thirty. With swingeing defence cuts and a government budget in perpetual deficit, let’s find more ways to spend money needlessly!

Cold-Hands

16 Jan 13 at 3:19 pm
Drastic action needed to save manufacturing: Paul Howes

Speaking after Boral [major native hardwood using industry player] announced today it would shed 700 jobs, the Australian Workers Union boss said it had been a “shocking start to the year” for the manufacturing sector.

So how is that alliance with the New Communists going Paul?

What? you had no input into the last 40 years of Trade Union Party forest policy?

So 40 years of GetUp! and ALPBC’s serial lies about the industry have nothing to do with you?

Hat Tip@ Tom
16 Jan 13 at 2:41 pm

Forester

16 Jan 13 at 3:21 pm
ABC Online wheels out “lawyer” to poo-poo foetal protection laws.

The immediate past president of the Australian Lawyer’s Alliance, Greg Barns, says the question is a fraught one.

“It is an area where we ought to be looking at compassion and keeping the criminal law well away, except for those extreme cases where, for example, a person deliberately assaults another person who is pregnant,” he said.

They meant, of course, left-wing luvvie lawyer Greg Barns.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 3:23 pm
Dot, the real purpose of a new currency is to put more women nobody has heard of on the notes.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 3:25 pm
The ABC is a festering leftwing sewer. That’s the only way to describe it now.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 3:25 pm
Dot, the real purpose of a new currency is to put more women nobody has heard of on the notes.

Affirmative action for the currency.

This stuff is laughable.

It’s a never ending production line of mocking material with these morons.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 3:28 pm
They’ll be introducing a $3 note to squeeze them all in.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 3:31 pm
Did the Taft high school shooting get mentioned here last week?

A student took a shotgun to a school and shot a fellow student, and aimed at another. A teacher disarmed him.

Noteworthy because:

a. being a shotgun, and not a semi automatic assault rifle, he didn’t get to kill a heap of people;

b. the kid he shot did not die (again, more likely with another weapon)

c. the school routinely had an armed police officer on duty, but he was not there that day due to snow. (Yet it is said the attack happened in the first period – it appears unlikely that knowledge of the police absence was relevant. More likely – the kid decided the night before and didn’t care whether the one police officer was there or not.)

Along with Columbine, the school having an armed guard appears irrelevant to the decision of a student to shoot the place up. This is hardly surprising – these are not rational acts of the kind (bank robberies, etc) which are obviously going to be more influenced by the presence of armed guards.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 3:31 pm
The notes would include new security features but retain most of the existing design elements including colour, size and their current portraits, the spokesman said.

Nah, they plan to retain the current crop of women nobody has heard of on the new notes. This is allegedly to foil counterfeiting.

Cold-Hands

16 Jan 13 at 3:33 pm
If they put Roxon’s and gillard’s mugs on the notes it would help drive the AUD down.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 3:34 pm
Not just women C.L. Our new currency will be a multicultural rainbow.

Tracey

16 Jan 13 at 3:36 pm
Along with Columbine

You are disgusting and depraved dimwit.

The Columbine kids made sure the guard was off campus for their murderous assault. When he returned he pinned them down with fire and saved many lives.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 3:40 pm
Can anyone make sense of Barnes’ statement quoted above by CL? He seems to suggest when a mother deliberately harms or destroys the fetus we need compassion, but when anyone else does the same we need the full force of the criminal law. Why the difference, Greg?

dover_beach

16 Jan 13 at 3:46 pm
No doubts that Howes is right about manufacturing is in a weak position.

Adding a carbon tax on top of the already stupid MRET isn’t helping.

Sean

16 Jan 13 at 3:50 pm
A quote today from one of the Aboriginal community in Logan, regarding duckbum’s latest bit of nauseating spin:

“These people had plenty of time. We’re sick of people waiting for things like this to happen, people dying and stuff like that, and then they want to get up and do this and that for the people.”

Lazlo

16 Jan 13 at 3:50 pm
Can anyone make sense of Barnes’ statement quoted above by CL? He seems to suggest when a mother deliberately harms or destroys the fetus we need compassion, but when anyone else does the same we need the full force of the criminal law. Why the difference, Greg?

Not sure what he’s on about. If we shot the baby with an assault rifle someone on the left might stop to “think of the children?”

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 3:53 pm
being a shotgun, and not a semi automatic

Are you sure it’s not a pump-action?

the kid he shot did not die (again, more likely with another weapon)

Nonsense, at close range, the shotgun would be far more deadly.

dover_beach

16 Jan 13 at 3:54 pm
Did the Taft high school shooting get mentioned here last week?

A student took a shotgun to a school and shot a fellow student, and aimed at another. A teacher disarmed him.

Noteworthy because:

a. being a shotgun, and not a semi automatic assault rifle, he didn’t get to kill a heap of people;

b. the kid he shot did not die (again, more likely with another weapon)

c. the school routinely had an armed police officer on duty, but he was not there that day due to snow. (Yet it is said the attack happened in the first period – it appears unlikely that knowledge of the police absence was relevant. More likely – the kid decided the night before and didn’t care whether the one police officer was there or not.)

Along with Columbine, the school having an armed guard appears irrelevant to the decision of a student to shoot the place up. This is hardly surprising – these are not rational acts of the kind (bank robberies, etc) which are obviously going to be more influenced by the presence of armed guards.

SFB Please don’t go to such lengths to exhibit your ignorance of firearms,

With regards to point A, what sort of shot gun was it? Double barrel, pump action or semi auto. You do know that they have semi auto shotties don’t you. The article did not mention the type of shot gun so you have made quite an assumption there.

With regards to point B, a shot gun at close range is one of the most devastating weapons available. Compare and contrast a six inch hole in your guts to a one inch hole. Regardless of the weapon the chances of survival are more dependant on the shooters skill and accuracy than the calibre or type of weapon i.e. scatter gun versus rifle.

And point C, are you assuming that the shooter didn’t know the security guard wasn’t working or is it just some more bullshit to try and make a point?

The only words of any note in your post are “these are not rational acts ” apart from those five words the rest of your post was blather and assumptions your guesses mean nothing.

Perhaps for sake of accuracy and to help you form a decent argument you should visit a shooting range and see how firearms actually work…

Old Fridgie

16 Jan 13 at 3:59 pm
Could I please re-iterate my request to give the guns and abortion warriors their own thread?

So-called Open Threads are routinely drowned by the ritualistic exchanges on these topics, extending into dozens of posts. Other topics of interest are lost in the flood.

How about it, Sinc?

johanna

16 Jan 13 at 4:02 pm
Good on Campbell Newman. Stick it up ‘em sir!

Skuter

16 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
If they put Roxon’s and gillard’s mugs on the notes it would help drive the AUD down.

I hope they do this Gab. I have a fantasy that every single one of them I get would venture further forth containing some biro’d information about these two that may inform concerning their characters. Funny, but I’ve never felt the need to do that about other noted women, such as Caroline Chisholm, champion of female convicts and currency lasses.

Naturally, I would never actually deface the currency, as that is probably illegal (can you write on this stuff anyway?).

And while it is not illegal to put up a New Fred at any old hour of the day or night, it is damned irritating that it always happens when I am otherwise occupied. My other fantasy is that one day I will be First!!!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

16 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
I was first once Lizzie.

It’s overrated.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 4:11 pm
A boy charged with spearing Sydney teenager Liam Knight with a metal rod during a birthday party has been denied bail.
Reporters outside the court were abused by the boy’s mother, who was visibly distressed as she left the building.

The mother on radio has a thick multicultural accent.

stackja

16 Jan 13 at 4:14 pm
As noted in other media commentary:

The Taft gunman was armed with a shotgun. He was reportedly carrying a dozen or more shotgun shells in his pocket, which, had he had the time and motivation, would have to be manually loaded. Kern County sheriff’s officials say between two and four shots were fired at two students, and only one was hit. Had the shooter been wielding a semi-automatic gun the outcome most certainly would have been different. According to an FBI study, even a novice shooter can fire off three rounds a second with a semi-automatic rifle. A shotgun can certainly be deadly — especially in a crowded place, given the way the shot disperses — but it’s much more cumbersome and certainly doesn’t have the rapid-fire capabilities of an AR-15 with high-capacity magazines, where a sustained spray of bullets can make up for poor aim.

For that we can be thankful that we live in a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. California already bans the sale of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. And it has much stricter requirements for registration and training and rigorous background checks on gun sales. Interestingly, our strong gun laws can be traced to Republican Gov. George Deukmejian, who passed the nation’s first assault weapons ban in California.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 4:15 pm
Reporters outside the court were abused by the boy’s mother, who was visibly distressed as she left the building.

Stick a metal pole in the disgusting vermin’s head and she’ll calm down.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 4:16 pm
First time this has happened to me. My tax return resulted in a small ~$700 refund that has in the past come as a cheque or bank deposit. Not this time: “this amount has been offset against amounts owed to the Australian Taxation Office by you“. But I didn’t owe them anything, always pay my quarterly account on time.

I guess this is a vestige of the goose’s attempt at a budget surplus. Or is the gov’t very short of cash!

Biota

16 Jan 13 at 4:17 pm
My other fantasy is that one day I will be First!!!

You really should talk to the Ape about that, lizzie.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 4:17 pm
Old Fridgie ” Perhaps for sake of accuracy and to help you form a decent argument you should visit a shooting range and see how firearms actually work…”

Does SofB know that the newbies on the range get to hold the targets?

Steve of Glasshouse

16 Jan 13 at 4:26 pm
That is strange Biota, they are very good at sending a letter stating you owe them money and interest is being charged.

Dan

16 Jan 13 at 4:27 pm
Just saw that one of the poor downtrodden families in the thick of the Woodridge shitfight is as we speak being moved (at our expense of course) into a new public housing residence at the Gold Coast. News footage showed their possessions being packed for them by a removal crew. No doubt they’re too delicate and traumatised to clean their own house before they move on too.
Thank God I’ll be back at work next week. Watching the news in the middle of the day is doing my head in. At least at night I can have a drink while I endure the bullshit.

Tracey

16 Jan 13 at 4:28 pm
” Perhaps for sake of accuracy and to help you form a decent argument you should visit a shooting range and see how firearms actually work…”

Steve assures us he is a veteran.

2 tours of duty with the Salvos and one year in the Kiss Army.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 4:31 pm
Roadies are actually interesting

Dan

16 Jan 13 at 4:34 pm
Does anyone not think that the ABC and Fairfax are going to go for broke this election to ensure a Labor/green federal government?

I also expect that federal employees will overtly show their party bias during this election in an unprecedented way. Something like a strike threat if the coalition win.

Luke

16 Jan 13 at 4:39 pm
They really should ban those metal bar assault weapons, maybe have a metal bar buyback.

Keith

16 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
Newman’s smackdown of Gillard is a classic.

Notice that Gilard is going beserk today (and lately) re her ‘government’ taking over stuff?

The other story du jour is her insistence that ‘social media’ buckle under to state control and stop ‘bullying.’

This is from a shrieking thug and coward who attacks Tony Abbott as a man who hates his own daughters under parliamentary privilege. She is a despicable person.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 4:53 pm
The ALPBC are having a red hot go no doubt.
Homer Howes will disinterr the old Workchoices campaign.
Some old prolapsed rag will remember Abbo poking his tongue out at her in 1978 and another will remember him poking his tongue in her in 1980.
Some pommy sook will swear blind that Abbo punched him in the gob midway through the second round of a Uni boxing match. Would love to see public servants threaten some sort of industrial action. I’m sure such a thing would have widespread support.

Pickles

16 Jan 13 at 4:55 pm
The announcement, made at a cybersafety launch in Sydney,

What a pitiful wankstain of a nation we are now.

What next, a national penmanship lecture?

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 4:56 pm
Julie Bishop also smacks down Gillard (again):

Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop has panned Ms Gillard’s announcement, describing it as a “populist” move in an election year.

“For Julia Gillard to raise the expectation of federal intervention in every neighbourhood dispute is populism at its worst,” Ms Bishop told ABC News.

“I believe this is a matter of direct concern to local governments and state-based law enforcement agencies.”

But former prime minister Kevin Rudd says there is a legitimate role for the Federal Government in helping to make communities safer, adding that “I don’t think it’s a place for politics“.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-16/gillard-on-violence/4467642

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 5:00 pm
A reminder of the Labor Party’s anti-violence credentials.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 5:01 pm
Piggy has always been a bit slow on the uptake. I think now he is starting to get it.

H B Bear

16 Jan 13 at 5:02 pm
A shotgun can certainly be deadly — especially in a crowded place, given the way the shot disperses — but it’s much more cumbersome and certainly doesn’t have the rapid-fire capabilities of an AR-15 with high-capacity magazines, where a sustained spray of bullets can make up for poor aim.

That is absolute bullshit.

Only someone whose only exposure to firearms was Hollywood could spout shit like that.

I’ve seen what a shotgun can do to the human body, believe me, I’d rather be shot with a 5.56 FMJ at close range than a 12 gauge.

Ps. Don’t read this post johanna.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 5:03 pm
Can anyone make sense of Barnes’ statement quoted above by CL? He seems to suggest when a mother deliberately harms or destroys the fetus we need compassion, but when anyone else does the same we need the full force of the criminal law. Why the difference, Greg?
Not sure what he’s on about. If we shot the baby with an assault rifle someone on the left might stop to “think of the children?”

What he’s saying is “If the mother wants to kill the kid, it’s her business, if someone else does it, it’s a criminal offense.”

In other words, it’s all about the mother, screw the child.

Catfeesh?

16 Jan 13 at 5:12 pm
We’re now compelled to call men in dresses and crappy wigs “she” – because of the whole BLT lobby group (or whatever it’s called) – but unborn babies as human beings with rights?

No no. That’s crazy talk.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 5:16 pm
Stosur 3-1 in the third. Zheng better not have any “toilet breaks” this time and come back out like a drugged demon.

blogstrop

16 Jan 13 at 5:21 pm
We can now say with absolute, incontrovertible accuracy that Barack Obama is personally responsible for the sale, distribution and ownership of more guns than anyone else in American history. And the state will NEVER get those guns back. EVER.

And he armed the Mexican drug cartels while continuing to throw (disproportionately) African American men in prison for possession. Disgraceful.

Fisky

16 Jan 13 at 5:27 pm
You really should talk to the Ape about that, lizzie.

Primus inter pares for us, numbskull. He Tarzan, me Primus, unless making jungle sounds same time together or special happy day for Tarzan.

Don’t forget the kitchen, either, Stevie. Even in the kitchen.

Well, you wanted too much information. Careful what you wish for.

And that, to quote my sainted mother, is quite enough of that from you, Stevie. And from me too.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

16 Jan 13 at 5:30 pm
Australia hasn’t been a place that “made things” since we sold Sunshine to Massey Ferguson in the 50′s. And the reason why dates back to 1907.

Yobbo

16 Jan 13 at 5:30 pm
We’re now compelled to call men in dresses and crappy wigs “she” – because of the whole BLT lobby group (or whatever it’s called) – but unborn babies as human beings with rights?

A good point. How come you have to love someone of the opposite gender for your rights to be upheld? Who speaks for the unborn but living?

nic

16 Jan 13 at 5:32 pm
He might be a queer old agrarian commie, but I’ve got Jonesy’s back in this fight:

Barry O’Farrell is a cnut

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 5:35 pm
Dot, the real purpose of a new currency is to put more women nobody has heard of on the notes.

I think Philip, Bourke and Macquarie arguably should be on the notes.

I quite like Philip’s quote:

The laws of this country [England] will of course, be introduced in [New] South Wales, and there is one that I would wish to take place from the moment his Majesty’s forces take possession of the country: That there can be no slavery in a free land, and consequently no slaves

Wow. Yet we have the Fink inquiry now etc.

The ALP will never get their way, because since they don’t promote on merit, ultimately their top gals end up being monstrously incompetent or corrupt, ala Kirner, Lawerence and Gillard.

She was a raging, bomb throwing commie but Mary Gilmore’s poem ought to be known by every schoolchild

Sons of the mountains of Scotland,
Welshmen of coomb and defile,
Breed of the moors of England,
Children of Erin’s green isle,
We stand four square to the tempest,
Whatever the battering hail-
No foe shall gather our harvest,
Or sit on our stockyard rail.

Our women shall walk in honour,
Our children shall know no chain,
This land, that is ours forever,
The invader shall strike at in vain.
Anzac!…Tobruk!…and Kokoda!…
Could ever the old blood fail?
No foe shall gather our harvest,
Or sit on our stockyard rail.

So hail-fellow-met we muster,
And hail-fellow-met fall in,
Wherever the guns may thunder,
Or the rocketing air-mail spin!
Born of the soil and the whirlwind,
Though death itself be the gale-
No foe shall gather our harvest
Or sit on our stockyard rail.

We are the sons of Australia,
of the men who fashioned the land;
We are the sons of the women
Who walked with them hand in hand;
And we swear by the dead who bore us,
By the heroes who blazed the trail,
No foe shall gather our harvest,
Or sit on our stockyard rail.

She got there by merit, and hails from my birthplace (sort of).

.

16 Jan 13 at 5:39 pm
True, IT.

I never trusted O Farrell because he is an arts grad, and is probably a “bomb chucking crypto communist”.

However, Jones is in bed with the Manildra Group. Surprise surprise, they grow cereal crops for bio-ethanol.

Any wonder he bats against coal seam gas?

.

16 Jan 13 at 5:42 pm
‘I also expect that federal employees will overtly show their party bias during this election in an unprecedented way. Something like a strike threat if the coalition win’

Seems unlikely. The politicisation of the APS has been exaggerated. The main public sector union – the CPSU – hasn’t had a very productive relationship with the Government which has failed to restore many of the rights and privileges that the union enjoyed under the Hawke and Keating ministries and has dragged the chain on pay rises. A strike in 1996 against the Howard government failed badly and the power and influence of public sector unions has declined even further since then.

Des Deskperson

16 Jan 13 at 5:45 pm
The Columbine kids made sure the guard was off campus for their murderous assault. When he returned he pinned them down with fire and saved many lives.

Spread the word IT. I didn’t know that. I could have shut up some loathsome left wingers in my family and I am friends with over Christmas (I should really adopt and get new friends). I’m going to make this point from now to the point of being obnoxious.

.

16 Jan 13 at 5:46 pm
Nilk, your submission was a stroke of genius.

let us see if they pick the one I just sent in.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 5:47 pm
Even a dick like Jones can be correct about some things. These speech restrictions are just the pits.

Pedro

16 Jan 13 at 5:48 pm
Enemies of free speech are far worse than rent seekers.

Rent seekers should be executed, but there is an order to these things.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 5:48 pm
Stosur must have such big arms from choking herself.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 5:51 pm
That brown-brained loser Numbers on the other open thread:

An assault weapon is most commonly defined as a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. An assault weapon may have a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.

False.

This is the US ideological anti-gun bedwetter’s definition, ie: ‘big scary black gun’. Hilariously, it is based on cosmetic appearance. The things they banned were all cosmetic!

The actual definition of ‘assault rifle’ is here and it is inside Army intelligence document FSTC-CW-07-03-70 from November 1970, and was also published in later editions. The book is “Small Arms Identification and Operation Guide – Eurasian Communist Countries”, written by Harold E. Johnson. It was prepared by what at the time was the U.S. Army Foreign Science and Technology Center of the Army Material Command.

As the site says “You can click on any scanned image above to see it for yourself. The quote itself is on page 67 of this edition in section III, part A, paragraph 68a, and reads as follows:

“Assault rifles are short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges.”

Note that an assault rifle is selective fire. In other words, it is capable of selrcting full automatic fire.

A normal AR-15 is a normal semi-automatic rifle incapable of automatic fire and not convertible to it (except some long out of production types). It is not an ‘assault rifle’ irrespective of how many pathetic hoplophobic bedwetters like Numbers are scared of it. Even in the USA, selective fire rifles have not been made for the US civil market since May 1986. Nor is it even ‘high powered’ as it uses a typical 5.56×45 medium power cartridge.

The old L1A1 was a semi-auto. It was not an assault rifle as it was not capable of selective fire and the barrel would not take the heat. The L2A1 (commonly called the AR) was capable of selective fire and to be frank it was pretty crappy. Touted as displacing the L4 (L4 being a 7.62mm rechambered Bren gun) it was not able to do that at all, never being designed for the role. At best, it was as useful as a BAR.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 5:52 pm
IT, I can’t believe the justification for that parliamentary inquiry.

Alan Jones – a conservative flag-bearer – has lashed out at Mr O’Farrell, accusing him of “getting into bed with” the anti-free-speech movement.

The attack is in response to Mr O’Farrell ordering a parliamentary inquiry into why no one has been prosecuted under the state’s racial vilification laws for 20 years.

Unless he is planning to ditch the laws, and is looking for an excuse to appease the luvvies in the Rhetoric Industry.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 5:52 pm
I can’t watch any more.

blogstrop

16 Jan 13 at 5:52 pm
why no one has been prosecuted under the state’s racial vilification laws for 20 years.

I can think of a cat’s meat man who should have been – if ‘racial’ vilification extends to non-Islamic women.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

16 Jan 13 at 5:57 pm
Spread the word IT. I didn’t know that.

Jeez, you’re gullible dot.

Has IT backed up the claim? According to Wiki they set off a device in town as a distraction to “emergency services”. The school deputy did not attend it but and was in the car park when shooting started.

Their knowledge and intention of where the deputy was or would be may be a little hard to know now.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 5:57 pm
Enemies of free speech are far worse than rent seekers.

Rent seekers should be executed, but there is an order to these things.

So you are suggesting we aquire nuclear weapons because that is what would be needed. Would the idea be first take out Tasmania and see if South Australians could be pulled into line etc..

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 5:58 pm
Mark, don’t forget, assault weapons also have that shoulder thing that goes up!

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 5:59 pm
Jeez, you’re gullible dot.

Has IT backed up the claim?

Here ya go.

But I was peeved to see Dave Weigel and a couple others imply that having armed police presence at schools wouldn’t help prevent mass shootings there because, after all, Columbine High School had a sheriff’s deputy on scene when the shooting broke out.

That’s right, but it isn’t like the deputy was sitting around eating doughnuts during the Columbine massacre. He traded fire (that is, he drew fire) with Harris for an extended period of time, during which Harris’s gun jammed. The deputy and the backup he immediately called for exchanged fire with the shooters a second time and helped begin the evacuation of students, all before the SWAT teams and the rest of the cavalry arrived, and before Harris and Klebold killed themselves in the library.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 6:11 pm
Stosur must have such big arms from choking herself.

lol

Fleeced

16 Jan 13 at 6:13 pm
O’Farrell has shown himself to be a complete douchebag on free speech, as he has on many other issues. He “should go hang himself,” as the “twitter bullies” like to say.

Fleeced

16 Jan 13 at 6:17 pm
Eddystone, the controversial part of IT’s comment was this:

The Columbine kids made sure the guard was off campus for their murderous assault.

As for the rest: well it is matter of huge speculation as to how many would have been killed without the deputy there.

What isn’t speculative is that one armed deputy “protecting” the school wasn’t able to stop 15 deaths a couple of dozen wounded.

And that’s hardly surprising. Schools tend to be big places. It’s kind of ludicrous to expect one armed guard to be able to do much. The cases discussed show a school having a guard will not always be a deterrent.

And before you suggest it: it is ludicrous to expect teachers to become crack shots as part of their duties too.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 6:26 pm
Public floggings Fleeced, justice needs to be seen by the common folk

Tal

16 Jan 13 at 6:28 pm
Has IT backed up the claim?

Have you? Evidence or fuck off.

.

16 Jan 13 at 6:28 pm
Ms Gillard, if you cannot control this country’s borders, how are you going to control the violence in the suburbs? Perhaps you could send in Ms Roxon and have them charged with offending their neighbours.

Months ago wrote to Jason Clare with details of uncontrolled availability of illegal weapons to Australians on eBay and he didn’t respond. This latest Julia Gillard initiative must be just another diversion from other Labor disasters.

I reckon the Security Council thing has the unelected Carr and Gillard thinking they are Superman and Wonderwoman. – Carr yabbing on about Australia stablising Mali and now Gillard gonna fix violence in the streets. What a joke – how about doing the job she is supposed to do – fix the asylum seeker mess up for a start. What a failure Gillard is – can’t do her job and reckons she can do Premiere`s job. Sticking her nose in too many pies – outcomes- total flops.

Just some of the many comments telling gillard to go *7&80hu7y herself stick her meddling where the sun don’t shine.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 6:30 pm
Wow. Way to confirm “gullible”. The class clown from Perth just has to say “X” and dot nods sagely.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
oops…that should have been: ~~herself~~

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
Dot, you need to give the questionnaire to newcomers

Tal

16 Jan 13 at 6:32 pm
By the way Eddystone, the deputy may well have been eating donuts at the time the shooting started:

On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner’s patrol car. They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.

Gardner had just finished his lunch when he received a call over the school’s radio from a custodian. “Neil,” called the custodian in a panicked voice, “I need you in the back lot!”

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 6:35 pm
Eddystone, the controversial part of IT’s comment was this:

Oh really?

And before you suggest it: it is ludicrous to expect teachers to become crack shots as part of their duties too.

Oh really?

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 6:36 pm
Ok, you got me on the doughnuts!

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 6:37 pm
NSW cops probe ‘brazen execution’ of bikie.

Well, they’re ones to talk about brazen executions.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 6:42 pm
There’s a lot of teachers in the US, ed. (About 100,000 schools.) That some of them place all their hopes on more guns, more guns, more guns is not surprising.

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 6:43 pm
True second ammendment supporters are actually as rare as hens teeth.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 6:43 pm
Further comment on gillard sticking her beak in to break up a suburban brawl:

She’s going to examine the limits of federal powers ! Too right she should, she’s way over them ! But what would she know about that? She’s a creature of the politburo of the Left and she has no instinctive empathy for federalism or the limits of government. The Liberal man got it right, but, of course, what he said falls outside the allowable limits and so he was caned. That’s what happens now in 21stC Australia.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 6:44 pm
True second ammendment supporters are actually as rare as hens teeth.

Substantiate your claim or renounce your freedom.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 6:44 pm
…the deputy may well have been eating donuts at the time the shooting started…

Christine Nixon phoned.

Wants to know what’s so bad about eating during an emergency.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 6:45 pm
I want to know what the PM intends to do about the disgraceful conduct of misogynists in front bars of hotels. Foul language, disgusting comments about the majority of society, utter disrespect for the majority of the nations leaders and smoking. They just walk outside and light where they like as if nothing has happened. And the food. These people are still inhaling mixed grills as if there were no obesity crisis. Get an advice from The AG and that other little special bloke.

Pickles

16 Jan 13 at 6:45 pm
and that other little special bloke.

Wong?

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 6:46 pm
CL ROFL

“Christine Nixon phoned.

Wants to know what’s so bad about eating during an emergency.”

Alice

16 Jan 13 at 6:48 pm
CL ROFL
“Christine Nixon phoned.

Wants to know what’s so bad about eating during an emergency.

Alice

16 Jan 13 at 6:49 pm
oh dear have I offended someone?

Alice

16 Jan 13 at 6:50 pm
Of course, the cop at Columbine didn’t continue eating doughnuts once the shooting started.

There’s a lot of teachers in the US, ed. (About 100,000 schools.) That some of them place all their hopes on more guns, more guns, more guns is not surprising.

That ANY of them place their faith in “gun free zones” is quite surprising.

Obama doesn’t, of course. His kids are at a school that has armed guards, as school policy, not just because his kids are there.

Neither would you, if you had the option.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 6:51 pm
Substantiate your claim or renounce your freedom.

IT
You are one that popped into mind as a possible supporter. You must support any weapon that can be carried. Be it chemical, biological, radiological or basic firearm such as mortars, RPGs, any other hand held missiles and of course any gun that can be carried.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 6:52 pm
The subtle bikie executions aren’t reported.

H B Bear

16 Jan 13 at 6:52 pm
No,Clare. That other little chinese bloke is Special with a big S.

Pickles

16 Jan 13 at 6:54 pm
You are one that popped into mind as a possible supporter. You must support any weapon that can be carried. Be it chemical, biological, radiological or basic firearm such as mortars, RPGs, any other hand held missiles and of course any gun that can be carried.

Agreed. Free, law abiding men should be able to pack anything they like. Even a cucumber wrapped in alfoil.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 6:56 pm
I think I have been banned

Alice

16 Jan 13 at 6:56 pm
I forgot some of the ones that even the strongest supporter might have difficulty. The suicide vest or bombs in general such as a grenade.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 6:58 pm
I think I have been banned but I am not sure why (maybe JC complained)

Alice

16 Jan 13 at 6:59 pm
Eddystone, two can play this fools game about politicians and alleged inconsistency.

If Republicans in the House are so sure that law abiding licenced gun owners being the salt of the earth who make the country safer, why aren’t they insisting that visitors to watch proceedings in Congress who can show their concealed or open carry licence must be waved through security and left with their handguns in the public gallery?

Answer please?

steve from brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 7:04 pm
There was heaps of stuff around after WWI and II, grenades, machine guns, heaps of rifles, SMGs.

Society didn’t fall apart.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 7:04 pm
Hilarious how they just luuurrvve and trust the PMS of Austraya:

Super Julia, with a popular response for everything. Shame about the bit after the happy, ground breaking, problem solving announcements. Ah well there’s always another announcement opportunity next week. Julia’s clearly got the same advisers that Kristina Keneally and Anna Bligh had. Announce your way thru government. It’s so much more fun than actually worrying about running the government efficiently.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 7:04 pm
SfB, lots of Democrats support the Second Amendment too.

I’m pretty sure some Republicans support an “assault weapon” ban.

Why do they prevent CCW holders from taking their weapons in to view Congress?

In Texas, they don’t.

In other places, they’re probably bed wetting nancy boys.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 7:15 pm
The second amendment states the following “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Me being one of those pedantic types believes this should stand, I believe in the rule of law. It would cause some mass tragedy and at this time the law could be changed to reflect modern arms and conditions. When this law was made it probably made sense, an agrarian population of current day NZ spread accross a vast land with threats from colonial powers. But as the people of the US do not believe this then that is their problem. If the rule of law was upheld this law would now be changed but instead the constitution is almost meaningless with judges just making up anything.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 7:24 pm
You wouldn’t freaking believe it.

I just went into the Telstra Shop and there is massive sign on the counter giving a “Welcome to Country” spiel.

The stupid fucks can’t connect a phone in 2 weeks and yet they are attempting to achieve reconciliation with some long dead people who didn’t even have two tin cans and a length of string.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 7:26 pm
SfB, lots of Democrats support the Second Amendment too.

That is BS as I am trying to point out. They support guns and that is all nothing about bearing arms, this argument is null and void in my opinion.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 7:26 pm
Eddystone @ 1703

To confirm your statement about the effectiveness of “shot”.

From a Tank fired cannister. Watch what happens at the end – total destruction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnm2mhY4NtQ

Mike

Mike of Marion

16 Jan 13 at 7:27 pm
I just went into the Telstra Shop and there is massive sign on the counter giving a “Welcome to Country” spiel.

Perhaps they’re chasing business with cashed-up recently-arrived assylum seekers?

Steve D

16 Jan 13 at 7:29 pm
Get an advice from The AG and that other little special bloke.

That Wong chap does seem to be in demand!

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 7:45 pm
The Lying Slappers look at our currency has a dodgy background. IIRC, when the Mint issues a new coin, and recalls/destroys an old note, the coin is costed to the mint at its cost of production. When it is sold to the Treasury, it is its face value.
The government takes itself a cut of the dividend, voila!
We’ll see a new $5 and $10 coin before the next budget.

Winston Smith

16 Jan 13 at 7:49 pm
You must support any weapon that can be carried. Be it chemical, biological, radiological or basic firearm such as mortars, RPGs, any other hand held missiles and of course any gun that can be carried.

Chemical, biological, radiological weaponsa re standard infantry kit?

In whose army, pray tell?

Mortars are crew served.

RPGs are for those wh cannot handle a grenade launcher attachment (pansies, essentially). MANPADS are a bit fragile and hard to maintain.

And forgot landmines!

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 7:51 pm
I have found the reason that Wong chap had to leave Taiwan and change his name!

The cunning little linguist dressed in drag and porked the whole squad. Right there on the field.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 7:57 pm
Mk50

What are you talking about? I am talking about weapons that can be carried by civilians according to the second amendment as stated. A mortar can be fired by one and I could carry a chemical weapon, capsicum spray being the most basic that is carried by many civilian armed forces (police if you hadn’t worked it out).

Thanks for letting me know I forgot about land mines I would put it in the “other bomb” category I suppose.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
@Mk50

The old L1A1 was a semi-auto. It was not an assault rifle as it was not capable of selective fire and the barrel would not take the heat.

The expert gun wanker who knows everything believes an SLR is not an assault weapon.
He can tell that to the platoon commander who asked us to assault through a bunker system in April 1970. Most of us were carrying SLRs…

1735099

16 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
You just know that the daily ABC diet will include some or all of the following:
Climate Change, And Everything Points To It; Gay Marriage, Conservative Governments Cutting Budgets, The Arts Doing Stupid Stuff That You Should Like, Labor Governments Doing Bold Initiatives, Unions Defending The Working Family, Clover Moore’s Latest, Islamics Are Us, Christians Are Dodgy, Aboriginals Deserve Everything We Can Pay Or Do For Them To Patch Up Our Guilt, Multiculturalism Is The Way, Deficits Don’t Matter, The National Debt Is Quite Small.
Tonight’s 7.30 Report decided that a story about growing up with a gay parent or two was “national newsworthy”.
Groan!

blogstrop

16 Jan 13 at 8:05 pm
Attack, Numbers, can be done with any weapon.

blogstrop

16 Jan 13 at 8:06 pm
A shotgun can certainly be deadly — especially in a crowded place, given the way the shot disperses — but it’s much more cumbersome and certainly doesn’t have the rapid-fire capabilities of an AR-15 with high-capacity magazines, where a sustained spray of bullets can make up for poor aim.

That really shows extreme ignorance. Zero depth of understanding or technical knowledge.

Why do you think the US military issues their soldiers with shoguns to clear buildings or for crowd control rather than their issue ‘assault rife’. Why do boarding parties on ships who might come up against concentrations of people in tight spaces take a ‘cumbersome’ shotgun. In fact, there’s a whole range of stainless steel shotguns is made for marine purposes. And it’s less than a decade ago that the US Army started issuing semi-automatic shotguns. Prior to that soldiers carried a ‘cumbersome’ pump action shotgun over a semi-automatic rifle, and I don’t think too many of them would have been unhappy about that.

Never let facts get in the way when you’re pushing your left-wing ideology.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/15/Percentage-of-Deaths-That-Were-Gun-Related-In-2011-34-percent

John Mc

16 Jan 13 at 8:11 pm
Here you go fuckwit Steve

http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/2012/12/columbine-had-an-armed-gu.html

Columbine Had an Armed Guard? Yep…and Lives Were Saved!

On April 20, 1999, Neil Gardner, an armed sheriff’s deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years, was eating lunch when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold arrived at Columbine with their deadly arsenal and deadlier intentions. Gardner said he got a call from a custodian that he was needed in the school’s back parking lot. A few minutes later, he encountered Harris, and the two exchanged gunfire. The exchange with Harris lasted for an extended period of time, during which Harris’ gun jammed.

The deputy and the backup he immediately called for exchanged fire with the shooters a second time and helped begin the evacuation of students, all before SWAT teams arrived, and before Harris and Klebold eventually killed themselves in the library.

The expert gun wanker who knows everything believes an SLR is not an assault weapon.

You told me this morning the very same thing.

Nor are they, as originally designed by the Wehrmacht.

Accurately taking a shot with a self loading rifle is actually slower than shooting rapidly with a lever action.

Then what do I know, I wasn’t a spud peeler.

.

16 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
1735099
Mk50′s point is things have changed. Of course a modern day team with Styers with sights on them and modern body armour would defeat people carrying SLRs even if they are not as physicaly fit.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
You just know that the daily ABC diet will include some or all of the following:

Why watch it? Apart from the cricket and tennis there is zero need to watch free to air.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
The expert gun wanker who knows everything believes an SLR is not an assault weapon.
He can tell that to the platoon commander who asked us to assault through a bunker system in April 1970. Most of us were carrying SLRs…

The fuckwit can’t help itself. It can’t post on a thread without including an unverifiable made up anecdote about a 10 month period of its life from over 4 decades ago.

Numbers, no-one gives a flying fuck at the moon about anything that you say you insufferable bore.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

16 Jan 13 at 8:18 pm
Trained on it. It is not selectable to automatic.

Therefore it is a semi-auto military rifle with a high-powered cartridge.

It does not fit the definition of ‘assault rifle’, and I provided the official definition.

Me, ‘know everything’? No. Able to do basic research? Yes. Does not believe left-wing talking points from bedwetting hoplophobes and assorted emotive crybabies without fact-checking them? Proud of that.

My grandfather and great uncles assaulted the German lines on the Somme in August 1918. They carried the Lee Enfield .303. Does this make the Lee Enfield an assault rifle?

For that matter, when the Legio X Gemina made the final assault at Alesia, were they using the assault gladius?

SMH at your foolishness.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 8:20 pm
The Diggers went over the top in France with Lee Enfields, therefore they are “assault weapons” and should be banned?

(I hope not, I’ve got seven of them).

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 8:21 pm
“Assault gladius”

LOL

Seneca pushes controversial Assault gladius bill, Praetorian Office spokesman says Imperator is willing to arm Parthians to catch smugglers…

.

16 Jan 13 at 8:22 pm
Why can we check 600,000 people at random for breath testing, that is having little impact on drink driving levels but we can’t check for guns in Sydney’s wild west where there is a shooting every day?

Honesty

16 Jan 13 at 8:23 pm
Ok, snap, Mark!

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 8:23 pm
Why do you think the US military issues their soldiers with shoguns to clear buildings or for crowd control rather than their issue ‘assault rife’.

To take a very quick guess they are more scarey and cause more injuries but if I was on the other side I would prefer they are using the shotgun because it is less likely to kill me. One is to kill and one is to incapacitate. At very very close range a machette or a hammer or bayonette is just as good to kill one person.

kelly liddle

16 Jan 13 at 8:25 pm
I’ve got seven of them

You rotten swine, sir! I only have one…

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 8:26 pm
An essential feature of an assault weapon is the shoulder thing that goes up.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 8:27 pm
Honesty..re the guns in the Wild West. Ethnic profiling..nuff said.
We don’t do that in critical ALP seats..

Steve of Glasshouse

16 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
I can’t help it Mark, if only the gov’t would ban them.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
I would prefer they are using the shotgun because it is less likely to kill me.

Like I said: absolutely zero understanding.

At 25m (unless you are wearing body armour or something weird) you are much, much more likely to die from a shotgun blast.

They are firstly more likely to hit you with an instinctive shot due to the pointability of the shotgun. Secondly, the trauma generated by the massive amount of energy released by the shotgun (compared to a rifle) over multiple projectiles makes a trauma that cannot be treated, or bleeding stopped.

John Mc

16 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
At very very close range a machette or a hammer or bayonette is just as good to kill one person.

So are breeze blocks, quite favoured in Northern Ireland.

Best ban them.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 8:30 pm
Kelly:

would prefer they are using the shotgun because it is less likely to kill me.

Sorry, Kelly. They are far more likely to kill you especially if you are unarmoured. A solid soft lead slug (cylinder) if used, or faggot shot (Navy used to use it, same cylinder sliced into sections doen the length of the cylinder – had little ability to penetrate bulkheads) or 00 buckshot are all far more lethal than 5.56mm. They cause enormous wounds, have very great hydrostatic impacts and are designed to cause massive rapid blood loss (which is what kills). The 5.56mm NATO round is designed to wound, as this increases the enemy’s logistics problems.

hence why the return to 6.5mm and 7.62mm – Muj don’y give a pig’s pizzle and leave treatment of the wounded up to allah.

Turns out he’s crap at it, too.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 8:33 pm
Well, if you are addicted…

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 8:39 pm
Give me a bullet wound to the chest or abdomen to treat.
If it’s a shotgun wound, sorry, you’re stuffed. I’ll move on to the next casualty I can save.

Winston Smith

16 Jan 13 at 8:40 pm
I support the proposal for a separate Gun Thread

Lazlo

16 Jan 13 at 8:40 pm
To take a very quick guess they are more scarey and cause more injuries but if I was on the other side I would prefer they are using the shotgun because it is less likely to kill me. One is to kill and one is to incapacitate. At very very close range a machette or a hammer or bayonette is just as good to kill one person.

Shotguns are good for medium close-range like 5m to 10m and it’s a long way to run 10 meters with a machette if the other guys is blasting you. Walk around a typical building and count out the distances, most rooms and hallways are in the 5m to 10m vicinity.

Out of a building, totally different story.

Tel

16 Jan 13 at 8:44 pm
Oops. Eddystone, well if etc

Oh my.

Lovely M1895. Ever used one of those? The straight pull bolt is technically fascinating. Got a carbine version in 8mm J-bore, but not willing to fire the ammo I have. it’s 1938 make with Wehrmacht markings on the packets. More valuable as an historic item to a cartridge collector than for me to target plink with. Besides, who wants to use corrosive propellant these days?

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 8:44 pm
It’s the person with the weapon not the weapon that will do the damage. Take away a gun and they can try explosives so how does that help? In Australia the problem is that the people that should have guns don’t and the ones that shouldn’t do. Whatever has been legislated I think you will find the Bandidos have illegal urban warfare guns. It is a complex multi faceted problem that needs to be addressed but not simplistically with feel good moves like banning “assault weapons”.

Honesty

16 Jan 13 at 8:45 pm
Trained on it. It is not selectable to automatic.

It is, you know, if you file down the seer. It runs away on full auto, but can be managed if you work at it.
Whatever, the bloody things should all be consigned to museums, and displayed to children as evidence of how stupid we’ve been this century.

1735099

16 Jan 13 at 8:52 pm
Yes, fighting the Kaiser, Nazism and finally communism was “stupid” :rolleyes:

.

16 Jan 13 at 8:54 pm
Yes, fighting the Kaiser, Nazism and finally communism was “stupid” :rolleyes:

The first (which led to the second) was indeed stupid; the last set of conflicts especially so. Dominoes anyone?
The second conflict was the only one when we fought fascism – and the only one offering an existential threat.

1735099

16 Jan 13 at 8:59 pm
Mark, a bloke at the Service Rifle Club has a Steyr straight pull in 8x56R, but I haven’t fired it.

The round makes the .303 look like a squib!

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 9:01 pm
… faggot shot (Navy used to use it, same cylinder sliced into sections doen the length of the cylinder – had little ability to penetrate bulkheads)

That sort of stuff is probably not easily available to the general public. I guess there are always D.I.Y. options but how realistic is that?

Tel

16 Jan 13 at 9:03 pm
Training day for the greenfilth

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 9:08 pm
I shit you not.
Apparently the Taft shooter snapped due to bullying about hes red hair.
So, Cartman was right.

jumpnmcar

16 Jan 13 at 9:13 pm
Tel, AFAIK that’s the only reason faggot shot of that design was made, for inside-ship use. SAS may still use it, I dunno. Don’t know if it’s still made. Can’t see a use for it in a civilian application. 00 is vastly superior for things like feral pig hunting in close terrain. From memory, the stuff scattered like a bastard (that being the point of it).

Another technically interesting 8mm is the Berthier with a Lebel cartridge. A two-part bolt – must have seemed like a good idea at the time.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 9:15 pm
Forgotten weapons is a great site, lots of info about obscure military weapons of days gone by.

They have a video of a repro FG42 German paratroop assault rifle.

Eddystone

16 Jan 13 at 9:33 pm
For the firearms enthusiasts here’s a lady with a little to say about marksmanship:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xSGMSz45M

Eyrie

16 Jan 13 at 9:33 pm
This day in 2012:

Andrew Wilkie’s pokie reform all but buried after meeting Julia Gillard
THE poker machine reforms being pushed by independent MP Andrew Wilkie look to be all but dead in the water after he met with Prime Minister Julia Gillard last night.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 9:33 pm
Mk50, I’m hardly a gun expert down to the mechanical details, just more interested in the overall tactics. Small arms are pretty much a logistics game, if you can get about the right weapons and more total number of dudes on your side, compared to what the other guy has then you win. I certainly don’t look forward to being the guy carrying the gun in the field, because like it or not, that guy is a statistic.

Mind you, guns are also the heart and soul of Democracy, so the other alternative is Feudalism, many people don’t get that.

The Nazi concept of the “assault rifle” was about optimization. They worked out that the old fashioned long barrel rifles were better for taking pot shots at long range, but their troops were mostly working at shorter range. Their strategy was:

* short barrel to sacrifice long range in exchange for easier handling

* keep the weight down because the soldier has to run with the thing

* expect the typical usage to be someone firing in a hurry without having time to get a good position and take aim

* provide automatic fire but use it in bursts to make up for poor accuracy

If you want to look at this concept taken to it’s logical conclusion, look at the Uzi — big clip and short barrel. Beloved of urban gangsters because they are exactly the target market for such a product. They work in highly dynamic environments with a lot of obstacles. I don’t doubt for a moment that the US military takes statistics from bad neighbourhoods to find out what works and what doesn’t. I would if it were me in their shoes.

Sadly, all of the above applies to a mass murderer who wants to get their name in the newspapers, for pretty much the same reasons. Speed, manoeuvrability, surprise, etc.

Restricting hunting back to single shot, long barrel, bolt action and small clip would be perfectly fine for hunting (think Daniel Boon). But the second amendment isn’t about hunting. That said, I reckon the next war will be a tech-war with drones, satellites and networks featuring more than guns. War is turning into less of a logistics exercise, and more of a gear sport. We are moving towards Feudalism again, but maybe some sort of team-Feudalism. The US in Afghanistan is testing their hi-tech gear against iron-age tribesmen with WW I weapons. So far the hi-tech gear hasn’t been dominant, but somehow I expect they are working on that.

On an almost unrelated topic, I got beaten in MIT Battlecode this year but I had one small moment of minor dominance until people figured out the trick I was using and either adopted the same thing themselves or figured out how to beat it (took them about 4 hours). I like to gauge what sort of smart dudes are out there, and my conclusion is that when it comes down to it (hopefully I’ve grown old by then) the US is in an excellent position to fight a tech-war… and that will be the end of Democracy right there.

Tel

16 Jan 13 at 9:54 pm
Manwhile, in the UK, it takes Blackadder to fight and win a victory for free speech.

Now that he’s done, I have a cunning plan m’lord. Get him over here to take on Nanny Roxon

papachango

16 Jan 13 at 9:54 pm
The US in Afghanistan is testing their hi-tech gear against iron-age tribesmen with WW I weapons. So far the hi-tech gear hasn’t been dominant, but somehow I expect they are working on that.

Kind of like the US a couple of centuries ago when they fought the ~~Indians~~ Native Amercians.

Their muskets that needed to be loaded and wadded with a ramrod were no match for the bows and arrows of the latter. Then came the six shooter which evenned things up a bit.

papachango

16 Jan 13 at 9:59 pm
What a pleasure it is to watch the cricket on Fox tonight and not have to listen to the barely coherant himbo, Brendon Julian.
Are there any nominations for a worse commentator in Australian sport?

Huckleberry Chunkwot

16 Jan 13 at 10:04 pm
“The 5.56mm NATO round is designed to wound, as this increases the enemy’s logistics problems”.

Nonsense.

The smaller round allows a soldier to carry more ammo.

A lack of stopping power is a bug not a feature.

cynical1

16 Jan 13 at 10:04 pm
An ALP Parliamentarian and “friend” of Israel has joined the “Deep Freeze Israel to Death” Islamist ruse at the Drum.

geoffff

16 Jan 13 at 10:07 pm
That too, cynical. However, there was more than one criteria!

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 10:14 pm
from Geoffff’s link:

With plans to further expand settlements in the West Bank and elections next week likely to deliver a government weighted further to the right, Andrew Leigh says prospects for peace between Israelis and Palestinians look dim.

The only thing looking dim at the moment is Andrew Leigh who appears to forget – or perhaps just agrees with – the Hamas and Hezbollah doctrine that peace will only come once Israel is wiped off the map.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 10:17 pm
Hey Winston, how are you doing?

OK I hope.

Anyone – I have just been emailed a piece written by Mark Latham (so the clip says) extolling the virtues of Tony Abbott, with URL links, and putting the record straight vs Labor dirty tricks on him. Anyone know anything about this? Recent, or real?

From a friend on Sydney’s Northern Beaches where it is doing the email rounds. I have asked her for provenance of it, but she’s away right now.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

16 Jan 13 at 10:17 pm
I

support the proposal for a separate Gun Thread

A fine initiative Lazlo, as a new weapons owner i think that is a fine idea and it would make the whole process easier.

Carpe Jugulum

16 Jan 13 at 10:19 pm
geoffff

I have less than zero time for islamist savages or for the western shills, liars, spivs, allies, enablers and the media gulliblitariat which supports them. My view is that the sole liberal western democracy in the middle east should take any action it desires and which is legal under its own laws to ensure its security.

Full stop.

After all, there’s no such thing as a ‘palestinian’, and the only independent states which have ever existed between the Litani, Jordan and Dead Sea were the ancient Jewish kingdoms and modern Israel.

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 10:24 pm
And I think your blog is excellent. It’s a daily read for me.

Anyhoo, early start tomorrow….

Mk50 of Brisbane

16 Jan 13 at 10:26 pm
An ALP Parliamentarian and “friend” of Israel has joined the “Deep Freeze Israel to Death” Islamist ruse at the Drum.

I saw that, too, Geoffff. I’m fast reaching the conclusion that Andrew Leigh is becoming the parliamentary ALP’s resident wrongologist — a smartarse fascist academic trying to make a name for himself while standing up for far-left causes like Hamas and the abolition of free speech. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he was always a closet arsehole extremist a la Lee Rhiannon.

Tom

16 Jan 13 at 10:34 pm
Geofff

Good post. Leigh is an intellectual lightweight. Always has been.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 10:35 pm
Good post. Leigh is an intellectual lightweight. Always has been.

I are not.
Youse are!

Leigh Lowe

16 Jan 13 at 10:41 pm
There are a lot of politicians that irritate me. Shane Wand grates on me because he so stupid who knows is stupid and we know he knows we know he’s a moron.

Leigh though grates on men because he appears to me to be sneaky and dishonest while putting on airs of probity.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
Re the Palestinians and the UN, a person who I respect very much put a different spin on the move to give the Palestinians a seat at the table, his take was that they are better in the tent rather than pissing on it. I have not closed my mind on that.

I do not accept the Andrew Leigh argument that the two state solution is undermined by putting more Israeli settlers on the West Bank. It is undermined more than anything else by the refusal of the radicals to accept Israel’s right to exist.

Rafe

16 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
He’s such a shallow douchebag, Rafe.

At any opportunity Leigh utters the standard leftie prayer recognizing the original owners bullshit. However I don’t see him giving his house back to the original owners seeing he believes they own the land.

He doesn’t apply the rule to himself but expects Israel to cede land to the Palis.

JC

16 Jan 13 at 10:59 pm
Mk50, what’s your submission and have you had your form reply from Christine yet?

Thanks for the comments over on the other thread too, btw. It took me 5 min to whip that one up, and yes, Jonathon Swift was my inspiration. Considering that Singer is all for infanticide, I figured it wouldn’t hurt to throw him into the mix. He did, after all, help write the original manifesto with Bob Brown.

nilk

16 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
T20 “cricket” deserves Brendon Julian as a commentator.

Cricket Australia now promoting an irrelevant one day series against Sri Lanka as “Australia’s Biggest Dress Up Party.” Mardi Gras for bogans and you still have to drink mid strength beer from plastic cups.

H B Bear

16 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
T20 does have Australia’s best commentator: Mark Waugh.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
Fascinating and enjoyable doco on Queen tonight.

Funny band. They put out about seven or eight rockin’ tracks and about 500 embarrassingly awful ones. I think that’s the truth about the band, frankly.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 11:42 pm
Elton John makes use of a prostitute again:

Elton, David welcome 2nd son.

C.L.

16 Jan 13 at 11:44 pm
Elton, David welcome 2nd son.

They’ve accessorized for 2013.

Gab

16 Jan 13 at 11:51 pm
ELTON John and David Furnish say they have become parents for a second time.

It’s a medical miracle. Furnish must have some very unusual plumbing.

Infidel Tiger

16 Jan 13 at 11:58 pm
Had an interesting convo today about Lance Armstrong and drugs in sport.

Bloke was an expert. He said if I believed NRL players are just amazing gladiators who back up week after week au natural then I was very naive.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 12:04 am
Let me hear you say it, lefties: DICTATOR.

Or: “Shut up,” they explain.

White House now requires ‘We the People’ petitions to have 100,000 signatures for official response.

President Barack Obama’s deputies have quadrupled the number of signatures that petitioners on the administration’s “We the People” website must collect to get an official response from the White House, following a series of popular, provocative and disrespectful signature drives by his critics…

When the administration first established the petition system in September 2011, Obama’s aides promised that any petition with 5,000 signatures would receive a formal written response from White House officials. That threshold was raised to 25,000 for 2012.

The new 100,000-signature threshold follows a series of provocative, awkward or embarrassing petitions, some of which attracted enough signatures to meet the threshold set by Obama for getting a formal White House response.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 12:10 am
Speaking of dictators,

RESOURCE and infrastructure giants will be told to spend more heavily with local companies in a Gillard government plan due within weeks.

Big investors will have to prove they support Australian manufacturers in a new directive from Canberra that adds to existing rules aimed at increasing demand for local steel, building products and other materials.

Every day in every way gillard finds a way to f&ck over business.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 12:17 am
Good to see them folks in Logan sorted out their differences. Had a Hatfield and McCoys ring to it.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/family-moves-out-amid-racial-tension/story-e6frg6nf-1226554918752

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 12:24 am
Gosh. I find myself in agreement with CL on Queen. Even if there’s only a handful of songs to like, docos about the group are interesting largely because Brian May and Roger Taylor come across as smart and pretty likeable. I suppose that’s what you get if (as with May) you finish your science degree first before becoming a rock star.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 12:28 am
“It’s a medical miracle. Furnish must have some very unusual plumbing.”

… reminds me of when all the bogan mates gathered, during Parliament little lunch, all around that Wong chap ™Mk50 to congratulate him/her/it for the impossible …

“Elton, David welcome 2nd son.

They’ve accessorized for 2013.”

when all him/her/it was doing was exactly that.

Elton John’s older than me. How is mum-dad going to explain to Heavenly Hiraani Tiger Lily about the dad-mum thing when he turns 10 and they’re making mothers day cards at school? Poor little blighter.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 12:29 am
Brian May and Roger Taylor come across as smart and pretty likeable.

I was reading a book by a physicist some months ago wherein the author commented how one professor complained about a student in astrophysics who had the smarts but wasn’t putting in the hours. Apparently he was busy with something else all the time. That student’s name was Brian May. Rock n’ Roll or astrophysics, I think he made the right choice.

Bloke was an expert. He said if I believed NRL players are just amazing gladiators who back up week after week au natural then I was very naive.

My memory on this is hazy but I recall one period where Alan Langer suddenly bulked up. Steroids.

John H.

17 Jan 13 at 12:34 am
Are there any estimates how much drugs help jocks improve? We keep hearing about the top line hitting drugs but also rans must be too and it didn’t help them.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:34 am
Mothers Day might be a problem but the kid will have a head start on drawing fairies at the bottom of the garden.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 12:35 am
We keep hearing about the top line hitting drugs but also rans must be too and it didn’t help them.

It did help them, perhaps they didn’t have premium access. Everyone can’t win you silly socialist. The drugs work. As if sportspeople wouldn’t know that. Years ago some tried to argue that the drugs were simply a placebo effect. Bloody nonsense.

John H.

17 Jan 13 at 12:37 am
Everyone can’t win you silly socialist.

Umm yes… I assumed others aren’t john. Perhaps that assumption is a bit naive.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:40 am
“Fascinating and enjoyable doco on Queen tonight.”

C.L. – some years ago whilst browsing a music shop (probably checking yet again that I definitely did have every piece Dire Straits ever did anywhere, and all versions of it) I had cause to ask the owner about the beautiful operatic duet playing in the background.

I was hearing Freddie Mercury with soprano Montserrat Caballé. It was truly a moment of sheer beauty – what a splendid, splendid voice he had.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 12:42 am
Elton, David welcome 2nd son.

They’ve been together since 1993. That’s 20 years.

They’re doing better than many straight couples in that regard. Better than probably 90% of showbiz couples.

A mature successful hardworking well-to-do couple in a committed long-term relationship choosing to add to their family does not panic me in the slightest.

Octomom, on the other hand…

sdog

17 Jan 13 at 12:46 am
Are there any estimates how much drugs help jocks improve?

They help you train harder and recover better. They’re as useful as Elton John at a birthing class if you sit on the couch.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 12:52 am
Eddystone, what do you need seven Lee-Enfields for? Yes, they’re cool guns; I love ‘em; I’d shoot ‘em every day if I could. Sure, own as many guns as you want. But seven? Or are some of them in wildcat calibres/.308 conversions?

perturbed

17 Jan 13 at 12:56 am
Sdog, if it was a 65 year old woman who was renting some younger womb to have another kiddie you’d probably question the wisdom of it, I expect. Just cos he’s rich and wrote some good songs is no excuse.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 12:59 am
Sdog, if it was a 65 year old woman

You’re not that far off the mark, Stepford.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 1:11 am
“Are there any estimates how much drugs help jocks improve?”

Earlier this week a mate and I were amusing ourselves about a big young engineer’s dedication to his perfect pectorals, abs, biceps and facial moisturiser but ignoring his legs like those on an Ethiopian marathoner. He doesn’t do anything with it all, like play sport.

Going back in time we did balanced work, including a lot of quadriceps and calves work to improve dynamism at the scrum engagement and leg drive in the rucks. We developed big thighs for a purpose.

In that bloke’s case his “supplement” all gets absorbed in his self absorbed upper half and nothing travels south.

I’m told use of steroids and whatever else the gym boys have moved on to now is rife, universal. All we “did” was Sustagen, which was probably more psychosomatic.

The quiet little bloke from Cyprus who trained alone over in the corner of the Police Boys Club boxing gym went on to win weightlifting gold, and a record, in the 1970 (?) Commonwealth games and I swear we only ever saw George Vasiliades take oranges and water!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 1:17 am
Brian May didn’t walk away from science. He graduated with his PhD in astrophysics (Imperial College, London) several years ago.

His thesis was about:

…reflected light from interplanetary dust and the velocity of dust in the plane of the Solar System.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:27 am
Hedley Thomas is baa-aack.

You know, doin’ the journalism thing…

WOW:

Slater & Gordon secretary quizzed as police step up AWU inquiries.

A HIGHLY sensitive investigation by Victoria Police into the union scandal that has dogged Julia Gillard for 17 years has been stepped up, with a detective travelling to Queensland’s Sunshine Coast to take a detailed statement from a key witness.

The witness, Olivia Palmer, is a highly regarded former legal secretary who worked with Ms Gillard at Melbourne-based firm Slater & Gordon lawyers when the fraud involving the Australian Workers Union unfolded.

A Victorian detective who arrived in Queensland on Monday spent most of Tuesday and yesterday interviewing Ms Palmer at Kawana police station near her Caloundra home. Ms Palmer – formerly Olivia Brosnahan – also provided evidence to detectives in Melbourne last week about her recollection of the firm’s role in the funding and conveyancing of a $230,000 terrace house in Fitzroy, in the city’s inner northeast.

The Kerr Street property was bought with cash from the AWU Workplace Reform Association by Ms Gillard’s then boyfriend, Bruce Wilson, in 1993.

Ms Gillard, who had provided legal advice to Mr Wilson to set up the association, attended the auction.

RTWT.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:30 am
“Good to see them folks in Logan sorted out their differences. Had a Hatfield and McCoys ring to it.”

The aborigines vs Tongan blues have been on for years now in Logan, with the East African migrants chucked in about five years ago to make it even more volatile. Me think it very amusing waiting for a compo claim to be made on the Tongan and Somalian Government for pinching their land (and their roadworks, schools and telephone exchanges).

Conversely, just up the road Sunnybank has been taken over by Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodians mainly, absolutely seamlessly, including a now exclusively Asian shopping centre that we travel to. That’s got something to do with industriousness, going-to-schoolery, job-ness and embrace of capitalism.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 1:32 am
…taken over by Chinese, Vietnamese and Cambodians…

Too right, Mick. Good for them. They’re welcome in this country.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:36 am
Bird and his sister, Alice are going to go absolutley apeshit.

Goldman Sachs just reported out of the ball park earnings for the 4th quarter.

Goldman Sachs earnings near triple to $2.8bn
Goldman Sachs said its fourth-quarter earnings nearly tripled, driven by big gains in stock and bond values, increased revenue from dealmaking and lower compensation expenses.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 1:47 am
JP morgan also great earnings.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 1:48 am
“Too right, Mick. Good for them. They’re welcome in this country.”

Yes. I enjoy Asian culture and delight in being there (I’m biased ‘cos Mrs Mick is Asian and still lives, eats and behaves like she’s in the village over 20 years back – and still commands the family effort back there too).

The cultures are peaceful, familiar with living privately and harmoniously in close quarters, and the people want to be middle class and will work (typically as a family group) to attain that. The young are generally bound to that mindset and have a responsibility to work within the family to achieve its goal. It is a pleasure being surrounded by such determined and happy people.

I imagine any migration policy would pursue such a profile. Any thoughtful, sensible and progressive migration policy.

Over the years we’ve been involved in the welcome and settling in of countless new ones and not one has seen a Centrelink dollar.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 1:55 am
David Furnish is 50. I don’t think that’s necessarily too old to be a good parent. Especially if you have a solid support structure around you and the resources to afford you extra help when you need it.

Like I said, I can think of far worse things than for a healthy, much-wanted child to be brought up by a mature successful hardworking well-to-do couple in a committed long-term relationship.

I daresay Elton & David’s kids will get more quality parenting and support from their daddy & papa than your alleged children do from you. So there’s that too, y’know.

Just cos he’s rich and wrote some good songs…

A ha! There’s the rub. You hate him because he’s been more successful than you. He’s also a pretty decent bloke who’s extraordinarily generous to charities and who has learned a lot of life lessons the hard way and isn’t ashamed to admit it.

You’re a bitter, sad, envy-ridden little unit, SfB.

sdog

17 Jan 13 at 1:56 am
“Goldman Sachs just reported out of the ball park earnings”

Little wonder the Member for Goldman Sachs wanders about the joint, smiling that satisfied smile, being irritating, completely useless and irrelevant.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 1:58 am
They paid off a surragate (prostitute), though, Spot.

Let’s not sugar-coat it. This is a grubby, misogynistic business.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:58 am
Yes, CL. In an ideal world, they might have adopted a baby who already existed and was in need of a home instead of creating a new life. The had tried to go that route originally, actually, but were rejected because of their age & marital status.

sdog

17 Jan 13 at 2:15 am
The Tele headline highlights Wyong Shire’s enthusiasm for Sydney’s Second Airport to locate at Warnervale, as this thing becomes a topical issue again and Comrade Sleazy Albaneasy touts feasibility studies into Badgery’s Creek and Wilton.

The project has been feasibilitied to death. Just after Gough the Majestic swept into his Emperorship (I had just completed my cadetship) we were sent out in the field for a couple of weeks to craft on-the-run estimates for acquisition and infrastructure costs for a half dozen prospective sites – vital work, uber-urgent task, detailed maps, private vehicles only (we loved the mileage rates) secret boundaries ‘n all, Cabinet reports waiting for our figures.

That was 40 years ago. Do ya reckon I reckon it’ll ever happen???

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 2:24 am
…but were rejected because of their age & marital status.

It also didn’t help that Elton John is a former drug addict and alcoholic.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 2:34 am
Yes, CL. In an ideal world, they might have adopted a baby who already existed and was in need of a home instead of creating a new life. The had tried to go that route originally, actually, but were rejected because of their age & marital status.

sdog, if those grounds are reasonable for existing children (adoption), then they are also for prospective children (surrogacy). More to the point, though, why should two men have any expectation of children?

BTW, the argument you provide above in response to sfb only applies to adoption, not for surrogacy; since here, the child is being deliberately deprived of his/her mother.

dover_beach

17 Jan 13 at 2:48 am
Big investors will have to prove they support Australian manufacturers in a new directive from Canberra that adds to existing rules aimed at increasing demand for local steel, building products and other materials.

Oh for FFS, not this sixteenth century shit again. This crap was being debunked nearly half a millenium ago.

wreckage

17 Jan 13 at 2:49 am
a semi-automatic firearm possessing certain features similar to those of military firearms. An assault weapon may have a detachable magazine, in conjunction with one, two, or more other features such as a pistol grip, a folding stock, a flash suppressor, or a bayonet lug.

I am trying hard to think of a definition of “assault weapon” that is more irrelevant or functionally useless, and the only meaningless bullshit criterion I can think to add is “lacking a warm, homely wood-grain stock”.

Detachable magazine, FFS! My old .22 rabbit hunting rifle had that. Mind you, my other old .22 got classified as a dangerous assault weapon because it was a semi-auto with 10-shot mag. Internal mag. With a weapon like that, given the thickness of the human skull, you might eventually kill a person! It had to be destroyed for the safety of all!!!

wreckage

17 Jan 13 at 2:56 am
Science and religion serve different human needs – religion the need for meaning, the science for control. The assumption is that each is buy constructing a picture of the world. Evangelical atheists preach the need for a scientific view of things, but a settled view does not go with the scientific method. If we know anything it is that most of the theories that prevail at any one time are false. Scientific theories are not components of a world-view but tools we use to tinker with the world.
224
…..

Science is like religion, an effort at transcendence that ends by accepting a world that is beyond understanding. All our inquiries come to rest on groundless facts. Just like faith, reason must at last submit; the final end of science is a revelation of the absurd.

John H.

17 Jan 13 at 4:22 am
John H, you might be interested in this interview of Stephen Mumford over at 3am magazine (which is a internet treasure). Aristotle’s revenge, indeed.

dover_beach

17 Jan 13 at 5:01 am
Sugardaddy funny money to finance the cannibalisation of Fairfax:

THE launch of an Australian edition of The Guardian’s website will challenge local media companies, in particular Fairfax-owned sites that focus on a left-leaning high-end demographic.

The British newspaper group that controls the third-biggest news-based website in the world has announced a local operation after months of speculation and market analysis, with initial funds provided by online entrepreneur Graeme Wood.

While its presence will potentially provide unwelcome competition for all Australian news sites – including Yahoo7, Nine MSN and sites operated by News Limited (publisher of The Australian) – in a period of sluggish advertising the biggest challenge will be for Fairfax-owned websites of newspapers The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, which have been modelled on The Guardian.

The Guardian will launch its local digital edition this year and seek to capitalise on the 1.3 million Australians who use the website. Fairfax concerns will centre on how many of these readers will migrate from their websites, especially when it launches paywalls after March 4.

The Australian operation will be launched in coming months by Guardian deputy editor Katharine Viner while Paul Chadwick, the outgoing director of editorial policies at the ABC, will become a non-executive director. Three local journalists will also be hired.

The Guardian lost £44 million last year and Fairfax lost $2.7 billion on heavy asset writedowns.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 5:29 am
Wood ees good; Rhinehart, she ees bad.

Blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 6:12 am
Through gritted teeth, 69-year-old political activist James Hansen has been forced to admit the data no longer supports his religion:

The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade, which we interpret as a combination of natural variability and a slow down in the growth rate of net climate forcing.

The backpedalling over the next five years is going to be comical, to the accompaniment of exploding lefty heads.

H/T Bolt.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 6:12 am
The hypocrisy – it burns:

THE White House has slammed a gun lobby advertisement accusing President Barack Obama of hypocrisy over Secret Service protection offered to his daughters as “repugnant and cowardly.”

“Most Americans agree that a president’s children should not be used as pawns in a political fight,” said White House spokesman Jay Carney.

“But to go so far as to make the safety of the president’s children the subject of an attack ad is repugnant and cowardly,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 6:37 am
Oh, crap. Gems like this will soon be behind a paywall and people will actually have to pay to read it:

We’re living on the flank of a volcano, calling it Eden. This is a high-risk strategy, as the first 13 years of the new, fierce millennium are making plain. Gaia is going menopausal – hot, irritable, hard-to-predict. She’s no longer asking for our respect. She’s insisting.

The FXJ breakup beckons. ShakeMyHead.com could well be on the block for around $2.50 tow-away no questions asked.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 6:55 am
Andrew Leigh’s piece in the Drum demanding Israel put herself in permanent deep freeze to appease her enemies has drawn international attention including from Israel.

Go to the bottom of this post and follow the link

geoffff

17 Jan 13 at 7:12 am
Che Gorilla’s piece responding to Andrew Leigh has been posted as a contribution to The Drum. Anyone care to lay odds on it being picked up?

OK Mr Leigh ALP

As a passionate friend of Australia here are a few home truths for you.

1.History did not begin in 1967

2.That means the settlements are not illegal under international law. Even if history began in 1967 they would still not be illegal. That is because of the circumstances the land came into the possession of Israel following a war of aggression launched against her by the autocrat in Jordan despite direct appeals to remain neutral. If you cannot think of any precedent in all of history where the loser did not or should not pay a price then you may care to explain what quirk in your mind found an exception for the Jewish state.

3 Certainly since Jordan formally renounced any jurisdiction over the territories Israel would have been within her rights to have annexed the whole kit and caboodle Judea, Samaria and all. That is if the concept of “international law” has any worthwhile meaning at all worth retaining. That she has not done that has nothing to do with international law and everything to do with the fact that it is repugnant to any idea of Jewish nationhood. Those who insist on a “one state solution” have usually crossed one of the red lines that define antisemitism. Beyond Jerusalem Israel has never made any claim over the territories. It has always been a matter of where you draw the borders.

It is at this point international law becomes irrelevant. It has always been a case of people of goodwill helping an essentially peaceful people have their state at peace with all.

Legal niceties aside indeed.

4 All of this is especially true in respect of Jerusalem and the adjoining “settlements” and E1 that have always been earmarked for Israel under any realistic two state deal …

http://geofffff.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/alp-joins-deep-freeze-israel-to-death.html

geoffff

17 Jan 13 at 7:19 am
re footy players – knew 1 gun winger who needed a few weeks off for a minor knee op. Club refused and he played on with multiple injections which stuffed up his knee and ended his career. He said before the game and half time the doctor runs a clinic injecting the players.

pete m

17 Jan 13 at 7:37 am
Regarding the newly decanted child for Reggie and Dave, I read this a couple of days ago, and it is truly one of the saddest things I’ve ever read.

Those who are 100-percent gay may view bisexuals with a mix of disgust and envy. Bisexual parents threaten the core of the LGBT parenting narrative—we do have a choice to live as gay or straight, and we do have to decide the gender configuration of the household in which our children will grow up. While some gays see bisexuality as an easier position, the fact is that bisexual parents bear a more painful weight on their shoulders. Unlike homosexuals, we cannot write off our decisions as things forced on us by nature. We have no choice but to take responsibility for what we do as parents, and live with the guilt, regret, and self-criticism forever.

Our children do not arrive with clean legal immunity. As a man, though I am bisexual, I do not get to throw away the mother of my child as if she is a used incubator. I had to help my wife through the difficulties of pregnancy and postpartum depression. When she is struggling with discrimination against mothers or women at a sexist workplace, I have to be patient and listen. I must attend to her sexual needs. Once I was a father, I put aside my own homosexual past and vowed never to divorce my wife or take up with another person, male or female, before I died. I chose that commitment in order to protect my children from dealing with harmful drama, even as they grow up to be adults. When you are a parent, ethical questions revolve around your children and you put away your self-interest . . . forever.

This is a man who grew up with two mothers. All the attempts at forcing the normalisation of this situation will not take away from the fact that homosexuals are a minority of the population, and as usual, children are the pawns that are currently used to accessorise their lives.

I understand the craving for a child, for wanting that continuity, but there’s that mantra agains:What about the children???

It is a social engineering experiment that is reaping tears and dysfunction everywhere it is practised.

nilk

17 Jan 13 at 7:39 am
It’s timely I came across this video today of the abortionist Kermit Gosnell’s handiwork given the news yesterday of the attempt by State MP Robert Brokenshire to introduce a private member’s Bill to the South Australian Parliament that would recognize the foetus as a person. More power to Brokenshire.

The clips around 7.30 min are hair-raising.

dover_beach

17 Jan 13 at 7:47 am
nilk, as I mentioned in a previous comment, Lopez, the author of your quotation, is being attacked as a homophobe by gays rights groups who wrote to his university department asking that he be investigated. At the time, he had simply wrote a piece supporting the work of Regnerus and referred to his own personal experience.

dover_beach

17 Jan 13 at 7:56 am
probably checking yet again that I definitely did have every piece Dire Straits ever did anywhere, and all versions of it

Oh dear!
Oh deary deary me!

Leigh Lowe

17 Jan 13 at 7:56 am
I look forward to Elton John touring Egypt and Saudia Arabia with his wife and kids.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 7:57 am
The Tele goes trolling by indulging a mentally disturbed women who needs to keep her part of the victim industry alive:

We’re just as bad as India for blaming rape victims

What is her gripe?

But those who think we in Australia are above victim-blaming are kidding themselves.

You only have to look at the recent case of ABC radio worker Jill Meagher, the beautiful 29-year-old whose alleged rape and murder on her walk home from a Melbourne pub in September shocked the country.

Much was made of the fact Jill had declined a colleague’s offer to accompany her on the 10-minute trip, and many readers’ comments centred around the idea she should never be walking alone late at night in the first place.

“Plz don’t ever refuse an offer of company home even if it is 5 minutes,” one woman wrote on a Facebook tribute page.

They may be well-meaning, but such platitudes only further propagate the idea rape victims are to some degree accountable for their attacks, thereby mitigating the responsibility of offenders.

Hell, we should be free to walk down the street alone, at 3am, butt naked but for stripper shoes, with zero fear of repercussions, other than sore feet. Have you ever tried walking in those things?

People’s sensible warnings about being prudent are being equated to a society where a bunch of men raped a woman on a bus and where officials then said the women was asking for it.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 7:58 am
Seems like the Tele has found their answer to Thursday’s tripe with loopy Liz at ShakeMyHead.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 7:59 am
Eddystone, what do you need seven Lee-Enfields for? Yes, they’re cool guns; I love ‘em; I’d shoot ‘em every day if I could. Sure, own as many guns as you want. But seven? Or are some of them in wildcat calibres/.308 conversions?

Lee-Enfields and bikes share a common theme – the perfect number to own is “N+1″, with “N” being the number you currently possess.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 7:59 am
It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

President Barack Obama resorted to tired rhetoric and outright lies today, and resorted to using schoolchildren as props for his assault on the Constitution, but at the end of the day, his list of 23 executive orders amounted to little:

Obama blinked, and in so doing, may have averted—for a time—a second American Revolution.

We have neither “won” nor “protected” anything today, except more time to train and prepare for a more brutal conflict, and rest assured, that is precisely what Obama intends to bring against America. He needs breathing space to arm and attempt to consolidate his allies behind him, and has four years in front of him.

Rudiau

17 Jan 13 at 8:05 am
We’re living on the flank of a volcano, calling it Eden. This is a high-risk strategy, as the first 13 years of the new, fierce millennium are making plain. Gaia is going menopausal – hot, irritable, hard-to-predict. She’s no longer asking for our respect. She’s insisting.

Cheers, Tom – I knew that was barkin’ betty straight away.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 8:14 am
FFS, andrew leigh is an utterly embarrassing imbecile.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 8:15 am
THE White House has slammed a gun lobby advertisement accusing President Barack Obama of hypocrisy over Secret Service protection offered to his daughters as “repugnant and cowardly.”

Nice to see that the Obama admin admits the Dems are being hypocrits.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 8:21 am
A directive from Canberra on the allocation of investment? This deserves its own thread, doesn’t it?

RESOURCE and infrastructure giants will be told to spend more heavily with local manufacturing companies in a Gillard government plan due within weeks to aid struggling industries amid fears of a wave of further job layoffs.

Big investors will have to prove they support Australian manufacturers in a new directive from Canberra that adds to existing rules aimed at increasing demand for local steel, building products and other materials.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 8:24 am
Obama blinked, and in so doing, may have averted—for a time—a second American Revolution.

The Sun King had to back down.

Texas and Wyoming have already noted they will use the 2nd & 10th amendments as the basis to imprison federal officials that enforce any new rules.

Of course the media that seems to take macabre enjoyment out of making celebrities out of the cowards who commit these crimes would not dare to admit how the Sun King was pummelled for his over-reach.

Instapundit notes this and links to a document that summarises how

IN CASE YOU DIDN’T WRITE THEM DOWN: A List Of the President’s 23 Gun Control Executive Orders.

“One thing the POTUS missed…there is no executive order preventing the Federal Government from selling weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels…everyone would support that one.” Not everyone, apparently.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 8:31 am
There is such a thing as a Sandy Hook truther now. Disgusting.

m0nty

17 Jan 13 at 8:33 am
Token, further to your post.

The NRA sent this latest ad out this morning…
When NRA suggested putting armed security in every school across America, mainstream media sharply criticized Wayne LaPierre — calling him everything from “laughable” and “tone deaf” to “whacked,” “evil” and “out of step with America.” Unfortunately for the media, America disagrees. Most citizens support armed security in schools — and the NRA, as evidenced by its 250,000 new members over the past month. So the media can go speaking for elites, but America will speak for itself. VIDEO

Rudiau

17 Jan 13 at 8:35 am
Lee-Enfields and bikes share a common theme – the perfect number to own is “N+1″, with “N” being the number you currently possess.

Ha ha! Too true, unfortunately.

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 8:38 am
The hyperbole:

When NRA suggested putting armed security in every school across America, mainstream media sharply criticized Wayne LaPierre — calling him everything from “laughable” and “tone deaf” to “whacked,” “evil” and “out of step with America.” Unfortunately for the media, America disagrees.

# 12, 18 & 10 on Obama’s action list announced today:

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education

Must admit they have been listening to calls to address mental health:

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Talk about a total backdown by Obama.

Thank about it these are sensible recommendations which you can only read about in Australia at the Cat…

Token

17 Jan 13 at 8:43 am
m0nty: didn’t you notice that Head Office gave me the job of raising that yesterday?

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 8:50 am
RESOURCE and infrastructure giants will be told to spend more heavily with local manufacturing companies in a Gillard government plan due within weeks to aid struggling industries amid fears of a wave of further job layoffs.

All your business decisions bilong big red mistress.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 8:52 am
Oh noes! In today’s piece of climate change hysteria, the ABC’s Sarah Clarke preaches that the 6 degree Celsius rise in Temperature by 2100 will drive many rare and threatened species into extinction. More dogma from the Climate Commission and CSIRO warmenistas; no dissenting views entertained. Your tax dollars at work.

Cold-Hands

17 Jan 13 at 8:54 am
All your business decisions bilong big red ~~mistress~~ dictator.

I find her utterly reprehensible. What f&cking right does she have to dictate to business their purchasing decisions? Where is this written in the Constitution?

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 8:54 am
It is a social engineering experiment that is reaping tears and dysfunction everywhere it is practised.

I was arguing this long and loud on Dover’s thread just recently. I also pointed out that in Ancient Rome early culturally approved ‘gay’ experimentation was pressured to be put aside when a man became fully adult, and married. Rather like the guy you cite, and good on him. It is interesting to speculate whether his perceived bi-sexuality is a result of his upbringing in a ‘gay’ household or his genetic inheritance.

All experience however shows that human sexuality is a socially malleable phenomenon (viz fetishes etc.).

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 8:55 am
“Lee-Enfields and bikes share a common theme – the perfect number to own is “N+1″, with “N” being the number you currently possess.”

Oh I like that boy on a bike, it’s good – or half of it anyway. The other half is downright dangerous, I feel safer on a horse.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 8:55 am
Sfb: nothing worse than a demarcation dispute at Sussex St.

m0nty

17 Jan 13 at 8:56 am
The statement is Orwellian.

It is disappointing that out of all the economic nouse at the Australian, no one had commented on Gillard’s decision to introduce 5 year plans to the Australian economy.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 8:57 am
Today’s AM ticked a few more boxes- kick Catholics: check; ban sugar containing soft drinks from schools and tax them to prevent obesity: check; Climate change propaganda: check. The ABC news unit has become a parody.

Cold-Hands

17 Jan 13 at 8:58 am
will drive many rare and threatened species into extinction.

Good. Don’t need no namby-pamby coddled species.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 8:58 am
“will drive many rare and threatened species into extinction”

Lord they are tiresome!

TheirABC ought to be issued with just one box of that line per year. When they run out of it they should be made to wait ’til next July before they can trot it out again.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

17 Jan 13 at 9:01 am
Today’s AM ticked a few more boxes- kick Catholics: check; ban sugar containing soft drinks from schools and tax them to prevent obesity: check; Climate change propaganda: check. The ABC news unit has become a parody.

Their ABC24 is absolutley demonising the NRA, telling me the NRA will fight against everything on Obama’s gun action list. Sure, the NRA was the first to state schools should have armed guards/teachers, Obama has this on his action list and now the ABC tells me the NRA will fight their own recommendation. Stupid children being paid a fortune to fabricate “news”.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 9:07 am
It’s just an announcement Gab. They’ll be dozens of these, hoping that each one will garner a few votes. Nothing of course will be done, but it will stick in a few heads and give the rusted ons an excuse to stay that way.

Would be more interested to see an announcement banning offshore retail shopping so that consumers Buy From Australian Retailers To Protect Australian Retail Jobs. Gerry’s got a lot of hayburners to feed.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 9:12 am
BOAB, guns and bikes are like peanuts. Who can stop at just one?

HRT

17 Jan 13 at 9:13 am
Obama has this on his action list and now the ABC tells me the NRA will fight their own recommendation. Stupid children being paid a fortune to fabricate “news”.

National review summarises the situation well –

President Obama announced his plans for gun control just before noon today. He put 23 executive actions in place immediately following his speech, and called on Congress to take additional measures. There are useful small steps in the president’s agenda, but his boldest proposals are misguided — and unlikely to pass the Republican House. The announcement — during which Obama was accompanied on stage by four children, and which he frequently punctuated with emotional appeals — was primarily an act of political theater.

Many of the actions the president has taken or proposed are unremarkable. For instance, few would object to his appointing a director for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives; requiring federal agencies to supply relevant information to the background-check system; or making efforts to educate mental-health professionals about their options for reporting threats of violence. Congress should indeed stiffen penalties on straw purchasers, those who buy guns from dealers and then pass them off to people who are not allowed to have them. It is not the federal government’s role to fund local schools’ safety efforts or provide money for hiring police, but such efforts are hardly out of the ordinary or a serious threat to liberty.

The president overstepped his bounds, however, in directing the Centers for Disease Control to study gun control.

The Red Yabbi & the Sun King are so alike, both to resort to pathetic theatre to cover a retreat (I know you all remember that confected mysogyny speech to defend the most offesnive mysogynist in parliament).

Token

17 Jan 13 at 9:17 am
Hope you are right, Pickles but I don’t trust this government on anything.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 9:18 am
The president overstepped his bounds, however, in directing the Centers for Disease Control to study gun control.

The CDC to study gun control? WTF?

Perhaps the CDC should investigate Leftism – it is clearly a virus of the mind, and has been out of control for far too long.

Fleeced

17 Jan 13 at 9:32 am
Hey, Fleeced. How you doing? Nice to see you here.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 9:37 am
Hope you are right, Pickles

Wonder Woman script by Jock McSporran. What could possibly go wrong?

Nine days to Australia Day.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 9:39 am
Tim Blair linked to the Mufti of Australia doing his bit for multiculturism.

Cold-Hands

17 Jan 13 at 9:45 am
Thanks, Gab… still recovering to be honest. Staggering how long it takes – makes me feel kind of whimpy when I consider those with “real” maladies – almost like an impostor.

Still have a slight bump on the head some 5 weeks later (must have been quite a knock!); shoulder/arm still sore, but not so much after cortisone shot a week ago; still get tired easily, though wonder if that’s not medication/something else (I’ve been losing weight, so must be some caloric effect going on too); and, still get dizzy spells. Attention span a lot better (hence my increasing presence,) but still not quite normal.

Fleeced

17 Jan 13 at 9:48 am
Attention span a lot better

Excellent. Head functioning well and on the improve. This is really good news. Assume your doctor is not concerned about your weight loss? As for that bump on your head…hard heads take longer to get over bumps

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 9:56 am
Those who are 100-percent gay may view bisexuals with a mix of disgust and envy. Bisexual parents threaten the core of the LGBT parenting narrative—we do have a choice to live as gay or straight, and we do have to decide the gender configuration of the household in which our children will grow up.

Is there something in the water in the US that makes them talk like this? They are all so earnest and soul-seaching and solipsistic to the core. Do they ever stop the cod pscholgical analysis about identity politics and just live?

American activists and commentators have probably been instrumental in more cultural and political devastation than communism. In a phrase: they are always hunting for offence, always grafting away at being vitims, always trying to blame someone else for their own cock-ups: everything is either pathologised or put down to the bigotry of the mainstream.

I put it down to the fact that mankind has need to struggle for existence. In the US this need was mostly removed by the 1950s or 60s. Many people who have a decent standard of living seem to have a desire to invent a struggle for themselves or others like them. That is when the old religion is replaced by the new religion of folk-marxism.

Rococo Liberal

17 Jan 13 at 9:57 am
Hedley Thomas reports that Olive Palmer née Brosnahan has been interviewed by the Victorian Police re. the AWU-WRA fraud.

H/T Michael Smith.

Cold-Hands

17 Jan 13 at 9:58 am
makes me feel kind of whimpy when I consider those with “real” maladies – almost like an impostor.

Rubbish. You just do as your doc tells you and take it easy. That’s an order!

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 9:58 am
You’re very excitable on the issue of guns in schools, aren’t you Token?

As I recall, Obama said he was “skeptical”. Here he is:

I am skeptical that the only answer is putting more guns in schools.

Wow, that’s devastatingly controversial, isn’t it?
Sounds like common friggin’ sense to me, because it’s obvious that schools are physically big and one (or two) guards can’t be everywhere at once. How long does it take for a student with a gun with a high capacity magazine to shoot up a classroom?

There was nothing to suggest that Obama had a particular interest in preventing schools from having a guard if they wanted – we know from Columbine and Taft that some schools have long had a guard around (although I expect more high schools than primary schools, and probably more urban ones in high crime areas than rural ones.)

The key point is, you idiot, that this is all the NRA proposed. It has opposed in the past universal background checks (although I am not sure if it is standing by that now – who knows?); it thinks it essential, apparently, that anyone be able to put a 50 round magazine on whatever they God damn like.

Here’s the NRA quoting some law professor earlier this year with approval:

Worse yet, a requirement for background checks for all firearm transfers would result in a system of gun registration as the federal government would have access to information on all firearm sales.

Horrors! Imaginary Hitler will know who owns a firearm!

The NRA is a creepy organisation that encourages paranoia amongst its already prone to paranoia membership:

An urgent fundraising email sent to NRA members from NRA chief executive Wayne La Pierre Tuesday night accused the administration of telling “a dirty lie” when it invited NRA representatives to be part of White House talks last month. “Barack Obama, Joe Biden and their gun ban allies in Congress only want to BLAME you, VILIFY you, BULLY you, and STRIP you of your Second Amendment freedoms,” LaPierre wrote.

“This is the fight of the century and I need you on board with NRA now more than ever,” LaPierre said in the email.

Neither more school guards nor an assault weapon ban and universal background check is going to mean no more school shootings. But restricting the number of high round capacity weapons sold, and the type of gun that has appeal to nutters who are on a mission to kill as many as possible is a reasonable attempt to address the issue of mass shootings (not just in schools) in particular, and does not cost an arm and leg either such as funding (I dunno) an extra 70,000 armed guards across the country.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 10:04 am
Putting Barking Betty behind a pay wall certainly is an interesting business model.

The decline of AM/World Today/PM into simply more ALPBC groupthink probably is the final straw. Our Fran, Lyndal Curtis, Sabra Lane, Stephen Long and Mark Colvin are front and centre at the workers collective.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 10:08 am
THE good news is that growth in Australia’s carbon emissions has slowed, almost to a standstill. The bad news is that the destruction of industrial capacity seems largely to blame.

Forecasts released last week by the carbon consulting firm Reputex suggest that growth in Australia’s carbon emissions will rise by only 0.4 per cent this year, down from a rise of 3.5 per cent in 2012.

The biggest industrial user of energy is the metals industry. With the closure of the Kurri Kurri aluminium smelter and the cutbacks at BlueScope Steel, the metals sector’s emissions are expected to be down by 6.7 per cent this year.

The other manufacturing sectors are also under pressure – witness yesterday’s announcement of redundancies at Boral. The cement industry’s emissions will fall 2.5 per cent this year, while the paper industry’s emissions will drop 2.3 per cent.

The Greens may cheer, but it is not as if there is an iota of gain to the global environment. Australian enterprise is losing out to the growth of the metals and other industries elsewhere. In the meantime, jobs are being lost and families are suffering.

The US is leaning more to regulatory interventions, such as limits on motor vehicle emissions and local versions of Australia’s renewable energy target scheme. This mirrors the preferred approach of the Coalition.

Pushing the domestic cost of energy in Australia above world market price will inflict further unnecessary pain on industrial sectors already in retreat.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/lets-not-fall-into-the-subsidies-trap/story-e6frg9qo-1226555393637

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 10:09 am
There was nothing to suggest that Obama had a particular interest in preventing schools from having a guard if they wanted – we know from Columbine and Taft that some schools have long had a guard around (although I expect more high schools than primary schools, and probably more urban ones in high crime areas than rural ones.)

The only way to make it even vaguely feasible is to turn the school into a prison – eg high secure fencing, locked doors and one entrance where you can put the guards and metal detectors. And after seeing the 60 minutes episode on Sandy Hook it looks like US school design is headed that way. Kind of wonder what impact that has on their children’s ability to get much playtime/exercise though and it must be a rather sad environment for them to spend so much time in.

The CDC to study gun control? WTF?

Up until the 90s the CDC did do studies into gun deaths and the impact of gun control. Until NRA lobbying ended up with the congress preventing them from doing so because the NRA didn’t like the results that were coming out of the studies.

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 10:27 am
Chris you complete ignoramus. The idea is not to make security 100% impregnable because you can’t. The attempt is to try change the odds a little.

Look dildo, if a loon wants to kill a bunch of people, he will most likely succeed. This is a basic fact you need to get your head around. I know it’s difficult for you so just take my comments as Gospel.

Stop being an idiot.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 10:38 am
Rubbish. You just do as your doc tells you and take it easy. That’s an order!

Might try a game of Civilization… haven’t played that for a whiles, and that’d be good for concentration (that’s my story and I’m sticking to it)

Fleeced

17 Jan 13 at 10:41 am
Up until the 90s the CDC did do studies into gun deaths and the impact of gun control. Until NRA lobbying ended up with the congress preventing them from doing so because the NRA didn’t like the results that were coming out of the studies.

Moron, there are numerous studies. We’ve talked about them and some people here have done analysis. It appears that gun control has had little to no impact on homicide by gun.

The NRA possibly didn’t like that study because it was likely to be tainted leftist propaganda bullshit.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 10:42 am
Fleeced. Once upon a time I went to lunch at Batchelor. After the lunch, mine hosts gave me two sets of buff horns and a tub of Mrs Macgregor’s margarine. I took the top off it and it was very green. I was told that this was Batchelor Butter and it should be used according to recipes and under no circumstances should I give way to the tempation to put two spoons in the mix instead of one.

Missus host then told me that Mr host had done so one night and flooded the house. After having a number of double dose muffins he decided to have a shower. Like you, he decided to have a little nap in the shower. His ample arse blocked the shower drain and as there was no floor drain in the bathroom, the water spread very evenly throughout the house to a depth of about one inch before it ran out the door. That a house built in the 50′s for Rum Jungle was still that level and leakproof 40 yrs later is a tribute to the builders of the day.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 10:45 am
Chris you complete ignoramus. The idea is not to make security 100% impregnable because you can’t. The attempt is to try change the odds a little.

But the prison-lite model is the way that schools are headed in the US. Eg According to the 60 minutes coverage Sandy Hook had the single entrance + need to be buzzed in out of hours for at least 5 years. They can’t afford to employ guards and buy metal detectors for multiple entrances so they funnel all the kids through one.

Contrast that to Australian schools where most just have have waist high fences (if any at all!) around the grounds and open spaces which children and visitors can move through. Very rare to see a locked gates (except ones to prevent cars driving on the grounds)

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 10:45 am
Murder by gun is a disease? How about murder by sharp implement? Not a disease? Legally owning a gun is a disease? The Second Amendment must be patient zero! Overwhelming percentage of gun violence is committed by blacks against blacks. Is being black a disease? COngress decided to defund the CDC’s gun research, not the NRA. But hey, if Obama wants to fund a disease control agency to “research” into gun violence, then let’s hope the CDC is objective instead of working off the premise that guns are pathogens, as they did in the 1990s. This is ‘war on drugs’ all over again.

Say, has Obama stopped supplying guns to Mexicans yet?

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 10:50 am
Chris

Of course thenus school system is headed for a prison-like model because thats what they are now anyways.

Ever seen a typical US public school? They look like prisons .

The problem rests with your side of politics there. The demorat party is basically captured territory of the teachers unions. They fight tooth and nail against experimentation such as vouchers etc that would allow for much more decentralization.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 10:54 am
Have you always been a complete and utter Right wing ninny Gab, or is just the influence of this blog that sent you over the edge?

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 10:56 am
They fight tooth and nail against experimentation such as vouchers etc that would allow for much more decentralization.

Which has precisely nothing to do with the issue of school security.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 10:57 am
Murder by gun is a disease? How about murder by sharp implement? Not a disease? Legally owning a gun is a disease?

The CDC study more than just diseases – eg deaths/injuries from motor vehicle accidents, fires, poisonings etc. And publish advice on how injuries and deaths can be reduced.

Moron, there are numerous studies. We’ve talked about them and some people here have done analysis. It appears that gun control has had little to no impact on homicide by gun.

Yes well given the people here are better at analysing data about climate change than climate scientists and pretty much any topic than the domain specific specialist, it should be no surprise that they are better than the CDC at analysis of gun control and gun related deaths. Because any pro gun control suggestion by definition must be tainted by leftist propaganda?

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 10:59 am
I put it down to the fact that mankind has need to struggle for existence. In the US this need was mostly removed by the 1950s or 60s. Many people who have a decent standard of living seem to have a desire to invent a struggle for themselves or others like them. That is when the old religion is replaced by the new religion of folk-marxism.

Likewise, “climate change” hysteria is mostly post-Christian wealth guilt complex, within which all the old Marxist, anti-capitalist class warfare has re-emerged like a satire of the 1970s. It doesn’t exist in the developing world and the societies not so afflicted will inherit the earth.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 11:00 am
The prison-like model of schools in the USA is a consequence of national paranoia. That same paranoia, sponsored by many who post here, and call themselves Libertarians, will spread across the Pacific should the gun wankers gain the ascendency here.
Australians, on the whole, have more good sense, and I doubt we’ll see schools in this country lokking like prisons any time soon.

1735099

17 Jan 13 at 11:01 am
They fight tooth and nail against experimentation such as vouchers etc that would allow for much more decentralization.

I’ve no problems with experimenting with a voucher like system for school funding.

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 11:04 am
And publish advice on how injuries and deaths can be reduced.

Ban guns, that’ll “reduce” injuries and deaths. Just like banning drugs. That worked out well.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 11:06 am
I doubt we’ll see schools in this country lokking like prisons any time soon.

Quite a few inner-urban schools in the Sydney area already have high walls, restricted entrances and various forms of security. Some of them just piggy-back on the existing infrastructure of inner-urban schools developed in the 1890′s, when security was also an issue in these areas.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 11:08 am
Thanks Lizzie,

I was going to note that he’d been called out before on this falsehood, by Siclair, no less.

The stonkeringly stupid, sanctimonious, syphilis addled narcissistic boofhead.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 11:12 am
Sinclair.

Effing iPad…

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 11:13 am
Likewise, “climate change” hysteria is mostly post-Christian wealth guilt complex,

Yes Tom, I was just reading in the AUDI magazine about the whiz-bang new sports model which guys are assured they can enjoy for all the stuff guys love, while being able to tell da wife that it is all hokay with da climate and ecology. They actually say something like this in the blurb. Doctor’s wives, no doubt.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 11:13 am
lol Rabz. Don’t hold back.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 11:15 am
I know this is wasted on gunliars like SfB, but some others may be interested in the empirical evidence.

Pretend “Gun-Free” School Zones: A Deadly Legal Fiction, David B Kopel, Connecticut Law Review, December 2009, Volume 41, Number 2.

All the arguments from our resident gunliars are discussed, using real world evidence. This is from the conclusion;

Gun prohibition on campuses is a deadly policy, and the number of victims of that policy is already far too high.

The case against licensed carry on campus is based on conjecture and far-fetched hypotheticals.

The case in favor of licensed carry is based on the empirical experience of the places where licensed campus carry has already been implemented, and on the experience of forty states where licensed, trained adults are allowed to carry firearms for lawful protection almost everywhere except on campus.

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:18 am
I doubt we’ll see schools in this country lokking like prisons any time soon.

Except for the Jewish schools. And we all know that’s their own fault.

In any case, the federal government didn’t really have a choice: It had to become an enthusiastic supporter of Hamas in order to secure all those muslim seats in western Sydney. There isn’t a bottom of a barrell the ALP hasn’t yet scraped.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
or is just the influence of this blog that sent you over the edge

On this thesis Stevie you are in clear and present danger. Off you go. Scurry away.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 11:24 am
Fleeced

Might try a game of Civilization… haven’t played that for a whiles, and that’d be good for concentration

You get my recommendation. I still play Civ2 at spare moments.

Nothing like trying to manage a stack of cities, balance the budget and keep an eye on the neighbors for putting other cares aside AND giving the brain a good workout.

Try getting a certificate from your doc endorsing the gameplay – otherwise the family will probably grouse that you are being frivolous

Myrrdin Seren

17 Jan 13 at 11:25 am
The stonkeringly stupid, sanctimonious, syphilis addled narcissistic boofhead.

Seems a bit harsh on Sinc.

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:26 am
I wasn’t referring to Sinc.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 11:27 am
BB and Pellet Gun-Related Injuries — United States, June 1992-May 1994
MMWR 44(49);909-13
Publication date: 12/15/1995

Unintentional BB and pellet gun-related injuries that occur during unsupervised activities are preventable. Parents considering the purchase of a BB or pellet gun for their children should be aware of the potential hazards of these guns, and should help to ensure the safety of their children in the presence of a BB or pellet gun. Children and teenaged users should recognize that these guns are not toys but are designed and intended specifically for recreational and competitive sport use. Parents or other adults should provide direct supervision at all times for each child who is using or observing the use of these guns. Each user should be educated about the potential danger of these guns, the importance of gun-safety practices, and how to safely handle and fire the gun. The use of protective eyewear should be enforced during shooting activities. When not in use, all guns in the home should be kept locked up and unloaded. Subsequent efforts to reduce the severity and frequency of injuries associated with BB and pellet guns should include determination of the effectiveness of a variety of interventions (e.g., technological, regulatory, environmental, and behavioral).

Groundbreaking research from the CDC.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 11:28 am
THE White House has slammed a gun lobby advertisement accusing President Barack Obama of hypocrisy over Secret Service protection offered to his daughters as “repugnant and cowardly.”

“Most Americans agree that a president’s children should not be used as pawns in a political fight,” said White House spokesman Jay Carney.

“But to go so far as to make the safety of the president’s children the subject of an attack ad is repugnant and cowardly,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

Obama hides behind his daughters.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 11:31 am
I’d be surprised if slug guns (“pellett guns”) are still legal in Australia, Gab. Someone will know.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 11:32 am
Kermit Gosnell

An icon of the American left.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 11:33 am
That didn’t take long:

Christian lobby can’t set policy: Greens

Greens spokeswoman Penny Wright said if aged-care providers could be removed from blanket exemptions, all organisations receiving government funds should be treated the same.

“Religious organisations and schools should not be treated differently to other entities; they should be held accountable,” Senator Wright said on Wednesday.

“The right-wing Australian Christian Lobby does not represent mainstream churches or the vast bulk of religious people in Australia, and it should not be dictating anti-discrimination policy in Australia.”

Not to be outdone by The Greens:

Labor MP Kelvin Thomson said it was a question of balance.

“I don’t think churches should be worrying about whether a registrar at a school is gay or living in sin or anything like that,” he told Sky News.

“I think we’re getting well past the time where that was a relevant consideration.”

So you can be a religion as long as you confirm to the Right-think.

Pretty much where I suspect They think this is going is -if the funding comes from government, then the control should come from government. And some sort of state controlled religious model like a couple of the Scandinavian nations seem to do – with local finessing.

We can look forward to proposals for a Minister of Spiritual Affairs and vast edifice of federal regulation.

Myrrdin Seren

17 Jan 13 at 11:34 am
Slug guns are “firearms” in Australia now.

You need training, a licence, registration, safe storage, ~~an anal probe~~* and agree to submit to warrantless searches by police in order to get one.

(*Not yet a requirement, but they’re working on it).

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:40 am
I wasn’t referring to Sinc.

I know. A sorry attempt at humour, my bad.

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:41 am
DRUDGE pic du jour:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQionl2dFuPMBYzNkyvxO23h8A4Tge8hhlXmDq_67V3c0-X73_

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 11:43 am
Hey m0nty, fantastic news for next time that you visit the west coast of the USA!

Huckleberry Chunkwot

17 Jan 13 at 11:45 am
“The right-wing Australian Christian Lobby does not represent mainstream churches or the vast bulk of religious people in Australia, and it should not be dictating anti-discrimination policy in Australia.”

Nor does any other group really represent anyone else – nor should they have a say.

“Having a say” is code for interference in the economy or other people’s lifestyles.

The point is more robust when you realise these “representative groups” are one man and a fax machine operations, or if they are any larger, they quietly receive subsidies and their actual membership is very limited and they hold extremist positions.

.

17 Jan 13 at 11:46 am
I see the Nazis have moved from tobaccy to sugar within the blink of an eye.

People march in the streets for the right to stick as many cocks in their gobs as they can but think nothing of people lobbying to ban soda pop.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:46 am
IT: must you confirm every day, and on every issue, that homosexual sex somehow manages to cross your mind?

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 11:51 am
Obama hides behind his daughters.

Obama has surface to air missiles on the roof of his house. Following NRA-logic everyone else should have that right too!

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 11:51 am
Why do you automatically assume the person taking the cock in their mouth is a man?

You have issues.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:52 am
Fuck off, troll. You’re a waste of food.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 11:52 am
Obama has surface to air missiles on the roof of his house. Following NRA-logic everyone else should have that right too!

They should. He’s the President of a republic not a fucking monarch. He should enjoy no more privileges than any other American.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:53 am
Which has precisely nothing to do with the issue of school security.

Dickweed

If they treat kids like prisoners some of them can act like them too. Having smaller friendlier schools could change things a fraction at the margin. It’s all about accumulating small benefits.

Having a voucher system would allow for much more choice. You’d end up with schools that would cater for different types of kids and personalities where they would feel more comfortable. This could help mitigate some of the frustration kids feel about attending sovietized schools.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 11:55 am
Obama has surface to air missiles on the roof of his house.

Well, Chicago is the gun-murder capitol after all. So those STA missiles are a safeguard against gangs with guns /sarc

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 11:55 am
Jim Wallace compared homosexuals to smokers for some reason, which I thought was ill mannered and rude, as if being homosexual or smoking makes a person “bad” or something.
He seems to alienate people and discriminate rather than bring people in to Christianity, in my opinion. He’s got it backwards.

candy

17 Jan 13 at 11:55 am
SfB, have you worked out why they don’t allow concealed carry permit holders to take their guns into the US Congress public gallery yet?

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:59 am
Obama has surface to air missiles on the roof of his house.

I’d freaking love that. That fat bald idiot, Lindsay Fox flies his fucking helicopter over my home. I’d love to send an Exocet his way when the chopper is too low and vibrating the entire house.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 11:59 am
Nothing to worry about:

THE unemployment rate rose to a seasonally adjusted 5.4 per cent in December from an upwardly revised 5.3 per cent in November.

The result was as expected by economists. The number of people employed fell 5500, compared with an expected rise of 5000, the Australian Bureau of Statistics said Thursday.

The number of people in full-time work fell 13,800 to 8.11 million, while those in part-time work increased by 8300 to 3.43 million.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 12:00 pm
Now that slug guns are considered a firearm I cannot use mine to deal with the Indian mynah bird infestation we have in our neighbourhood.
Mind you, for some reason they never come into my backyard. Or on the rare occasion they do they can never leave just like in the hotel california.

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 12:03 pm
I suspect that is statistically meaningless, Tom. Although it was December…..

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 12:04 pm
Ent

As a kid they were always in my line of fire. Those things used to be able to small danger a mile away. I can’t ever recall hitting one with a slug and I was really a goo shot. As soon as I took aim, they were gone. Very smart sly bird.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:09 pm
candy: I like the way in movies now that smoking is usually a shorthand way of flagging that this guy or girl is a baddie. It amuses me as to how much it (hopefully) annoys smokers.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 12:09 pm
Jim Wallace compared homosexuals to smokers for some reason …

How about you check the reason. Jim and his group are simply Christians, not extremists.

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 12:10 pm
Oh, and “discriminate” is not a dirty word.
There are enough trolls on duty today, they don’t need help from a vaguely aware person regurgitationg media spin.

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 12:13 pm
We can look forward to proposals for a Minister of Spiritual Affairs and vast edifice of federal regulation.

Ve haf ways of making you pray.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
It amuses me as to how much it (hopefully) annoys smokers.

Try zero.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
It amuses me as to how much it (hopefully) annoys smokers.

Bullshit Stepford. They light up a storm still in Frog movies.

And smokers don’t give a shit anyway.

You’re fucking deranged. You politicize anything like every stupid leftie idiot.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:16 pm
Gee, IT. Your resilience means I might have to cancel my new line of bumper stickers “Smokers are addicted losers and not very bright to boot”.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 12:26 pm
Your resilience means I might have to cancel my new line of bumper stickers “Smokers are addicted losers and not very bright to boot”.

How about a different sticker for yourself Stepford.

“I am a betaboy loser and everyone despises me”

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:29 pm
News headline tomorrow:

Brisbane Butt Plug blogger arrested for imprisoning smoker in boot of car. Said it was the right thing to do. Von Roxon to award Brisbane Butt Plug blogger with pat on head.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 12:29 pm
Gee, IT. Your resilience means I might have to cancel my new line of bumper stickers “Smokers are addicted losers and not very bright to boot”.

I’ve given up Steve. I have some fitness goals to achieve that durries would have provided roadblocks to.

Still have 5 packs of Stuyvos in my cupboard I’m holding on to though. Might save them and give them to my by when he’s old enough to enjoy them.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 12:37 pm
BERLIN (AP) — In what sounds like the setup for a stylish Hollywood heist movie, Germany is transferring nearly 700 tons of gold bars worth $36 billion from Paris and New York to its vaults in Frankfurt.

I can understand them moving the gold out of Paris as they could be thinking up another marathon through the Black Forest.
But what a slap in the face to the Kenyan though. How embarrassing for the fiscal deadbeat.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 12:43 pm
The attacks the Nobel Peace Prize winner sanctioned continues to bear fruit:

The French military assault on Islamist extremists in Mali escalated into a potentially much broader North African conflict on Wednesday when, in retribution, armed attackers in unmarked trucks seized an internationally managed natural gas field in neighboring Algeria and took at least 20 foreign hostages, including Americans.

The Arab Spring continues…

Token

17 Jan 13 at 12:45 pm
Obama has surface to air missiles on the roof of his house. Following NRA-logic everyone else should have that right too!

I’d rather have a trebuchet. They rock.

nilk

17 Jan 13 at 12:48 pm
I always listen to Candy, people. I think she has her ear well-tuned to how kindly and nice people take to, or are taken in by, some of the media spin and guff emanating from Labor.

Listen and learn, as Da Hairy Ape is wont to tell me on occasion.

Keep those comments coming Candy. We shouldn’t forget how you are often spot on in your views too, so I am not putting down your capacity to see good sense quite often and to put it up here quite succinctly from the coalface.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 12:52 pm
Ent

As a kid they were always in my line of fire. Those things used to be able to small danger a mile away. I can’t ever recall hitting one with a slug and I was really a goo shot. As soon as I took aim, they were gone. Very smart sly bird.

My trick is to leave the sliding door open and sit well back in the house with a strategically placed bowl of dog food out under the patio. It briefly works, then nada until they forget. Actually got a crow once with a shanghai that way. Had to bury the bastard after he subsequently met a big stick.

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 12:52 pm
I just like watching birds having a bath in my backyard. Even mynahs. We don’t get too many here though. Some sulphur crested cockatoos have started turning up recently for seed, too.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 12:57 pm
The prison-like model of schools in the USA is a consequence of national paranoia…

…or the policy of emptying their mental hospitals onto the streets, but I know how your like to indulge your bigotry Numbers, so go ahead and just make sh*t up.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 12:57 pm
Well, Chicago is the gun-murder capitol after all. So those STA missiles are a safeguard against gangs with guns /sarc

One of the primary arguments that gun advocates use in the US is that they can be used against hostile government forces. And they certainly have a lot of air assets which could be used against the populace. So why no freedom to own SAMs? The government also controls quite a few nuclear weapons that could potentially be used against revolutionaries – it’s only fair that the general population has a right to respond in kind! Wouldn’t want Obama and the government to have any more rights than the common person.

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 1:12 pm
Take out the disastrous effects of Campbell Newman in Queensland and the Aussie economy is going great guns, pun not intended.

m0nty

17 Jan 13 at 1:13 pm
I like watching the garden birds in the birdbath too, Stevie, so we have one thing in common. I kept it topped up with water during da recent week of climate change (hot weather, but see how I am accomodating your feelings here).

Da Hairy Irish Ape is a birdwatcher – taught by his father to sit in things called Hides built in the swamps (wetlands, he corrects me, wetlands). In the UK he can stay there happily for hours, with his only company his binoculars and a half bottle of whiskey, humming away gently when there is a break in the watching action. It’s a middle class thing, like Gilbert and Sullivan, and I’ve never been able to understand the appeal of either of these activities. Oh – and Charades too.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 1:17 pm
Yeah, nah, envy of the world, blah, blah, blah:

BUSINESSES shed almost 14,000 full-time jobs in the lead up to Christmas, Australia’s statistical office said today, confirming economists’ fears the economy is slowing.
The unemployment rate rose slightly to 5.4 per cent in December from 5.3 per cent a month earlier, with the increase moderated by a jump in part-time work. Total employment shrank by around 5000 jobs to 11.539 million, the first monthly slide since August…
…most economists expect the unemployment rate to tick up to almost 6 per cent by the end of this year, as losses in retail and manufacturing, undermined by the high dollar, outweigh gains in the better performing service sector.
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott linked the rise in unemployment to Labor’s decision to back away from its commitment to a budget surplus. Speaking in Sydney after the release of the ABS jobs data, Mr Abbott said: “No government can be good for jobs if it is not good for the economy”.
“This is a government that has failed its own economic test and it’s no wonder that jobs growth is weak, that unemployment is trending up, when you have got a government that simply cannot deliver when it comes to budget management,” Mr Abbott said. “Instead of giving us a surplus, Wayne Swan has given us the four biggest deficits in Australian history and he’s going to give us another one,” he added.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 1:18 pm
Hey, Boy on a Bike, did you know we’re just as mysoginistic as Tony Abbott, ‘cos we ride to work?

Yes, according to some ~~leftist dickheads~~ academics at RMIT cycling is actually sexist, ‘cos most riders are men and male-dominated planning departments over invest in cycling infrastructure.

FMD – this takes the cake. Clover Moore will be tying herself in knots over this one.

I’ve seen leftwing anti-cycling stuff from Paul Mees before – he’s a rabid anti-privatisation type who thinks the government should run everything. I honestly think his problem with cycling it that it’s not collectivist enough and gives individuals too much freedom.

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 1:18 pm
The government also controls quite a few nuclear weapons that could potentially be used against revolutionaries – it’s only fair that the general population has a right to respond in kind!

A textbook example of shark jumping, similar to voluntary voting equalling disenfranchisement.

Well done (again).

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 1:18 pm
Yes, according to some leftist dickheads at RMIT cycling is actually sexist…

On that logic, it would be both sexist and racist, as the only people I ever see cycling here in Zombie Parrotville are white.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 1:23 pm
Oh and paul mees is a ranting marxist dirtbag nutcase, who of course, just so happens to have the ear of our wonderfully representative laybore/greenfilth territory gubberment.

mees was recently hyperventilating about how Zombie Parrtoville is too ‘car dependent’ and that the gubberment needs to ‘encourage’ people to stop using their cars and use public transport.

Presumably by installing speed humps everywhere, as they’ve done in my local neighborehood.

Message for mees:

Sod Off, Swampy!

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 1:28 pm
Quite a few inner-urban schools in the Sydney area already have high walls, restricted entrances and various forms of security. Some of them just piggy-back on the existing infrastructure of inner-urban schools developed in the 1890′s, when security was also an issue in these areas.

Private girls schools in particular have always been paranoid about surrounding their premises which keep the girls in and the boys out.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 1:29 pm
That’s the spirit, Rabzie: we could solve all our social problems if we get a few black muslim lesbian boat people riding on bicycles at night through western Sydney’s live fire zones.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 1:31 pm
Yes, according to some leftist dickheads at RMIT cycling is actually sexist…

On my unreliable statistical counts, male commuters outnumber women in my patch by between 10:1 and 20:1. Yes – it’s very sexist. However, it’s not like men are banning women from the cycling club. A lot of women don’t want to cycle because they get helmet hair, or they have a very different perception of the risk of riding on the road.

Or they view the outcomes of a crash differently to men – if a bloke turns up to work bleeding from a large patch of road rash on the arms and legs (as I have), all the blokes crowd around and go “cool – that will scar nicely”. Women tend to freak at the idea of visible scars.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 1:35 pm
candy: I like the way in movies now that smoking is usually a shorthand way of flagging that this guy or girl is a baddie.

Yep, the baddie smoking. That’ll take the glamour and cool away from smoking.

LOL.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:36 pm
On that logic, it would be both sexist and racist, as the only people I ever see cycling here in Zombie Parrotville are white.

Yes fair point. I’ve got a couple of mates of Asian origin who I ride with occasionally, but they’re very much the minority. In 15-odd years of doing recreational rides, only once was I riding with a black guy, and I’m not aware of any Muslim or indigenous cyclists (black guy was from Zimbabwe). What a shocking state of affairs! Nanny Roxon should enforce quotas.

Anyone who does the Beach Road run here in Melb (the favourite for the Lycra set) will testify that it’s 99% WASP.

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 1:39 pm
Left-wing morals police now want to ban soft drink:

Call for tax on sugary soft drinks.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 1:40 pm
Yes, BoaB, safety concerns are cited in the article as a major reason why more women don’t ride. But they go on to claim that spending more on infrastructure to improve cycling safety is sexist in itself.

Logic seems to escape these numnuts…

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 1:42 pm
monty @ 1313

Good old South australian LABOR Government

SA: Unemployment up from 5.3 to 5.8 per cent; participation up to 63.1 per cent.

Mike of Marion

17 Jan 13 at 1:42 pm
Left-wing morals police now want to ban soft drink:

I’ve been saying for ages this is just the start – plain packaging will come. I’d love to see the IP fight with Coca Cola.

France under Monsieur Socialiste has just brought in a boisson sucrée (soft drink) tax too

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 1:45 pm
Take out the disastrous effects of Campbell Newman in Queensland and the Aussie economy is going great guns, pun not intended.

Yes monty, QLD mining is going nowhere and employing more public servants in Melbourne, Canberra, Hobart and Sydney is…going to make us more productive?

Fuck you’ve hit the crack pipe pretty hard today.

.

17 Jan 13 at 1:48 pm
The new ABC website is easy to write off comments which you find offensive.

.

17 Jan 13 at 1:52 pm
Notice how lefties like Monty NEVER criticise smoking, soft drink, alcohol, gambling, speech or behaviour bans?

They’ve completely embraced 1950s Presbyterianism.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 2:04 pm
Clips:

Newt Gingrich ridicules ‘gun control.’

Marco Rubio: Obama gutless.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 2:09 pm
They’ve completely embraced 1950s Presbyterianism.

Someone wrote about the new puritanical left recently. My theory is that old line puritanical protestantism never really died in Australia. It was just transferred to Greenslime and forcing people to live as they want them to.

They are far more despicable than some of old time lefties who in some ways despised the state apparatus. This group adore it. The Monsters and Stepford’s of this world exist for it. They kneepad.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 2:10 pm
Notice how lefties like Monty NEVER criticise smoking, soft drink, alcohol, gambling, speech or behaviour bans?

Given that none of them have been banned, it’s a big ask to expect him to criticise such actions.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 2:10 pm
Yes. Newt Gingrich having recently shown himself to be such a successful voice of the Republicans, his opinion really matters.

As for Rubio: more encouragement of NRA paranoia by telling the public in code “your paranoid belief that the President really wants to disarm you of all your guns is shared by me.” What a rube.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 2:16 pm
Methodism, I think, CL. My ma always said the Presbies would let her have a drink or two. Mind you, I wouldn’t have liked to be in her way if they had tried to stop her.

Some of the Methodists even thought a cup of tea was a bit suspect, but the general culture won them over on that.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 2:17 pm
Yes, according to some leftist dickheads ~~academics at RMIT~~ cycling is actually sexist, ‘cos most riders are men and male-dominated planning departments over invest in cycling infrastructure.

I’m suprised the reactionary neo-progressives have not got around to placing a tax upon it.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 2:23 pm
Given that none of them have been banned

Dear me, memories of my sainted mother a lot today.

It’s the thought that counts, Stevie, as she always said about her peculiar presents. What on earth was she thinking? I’d wonder.

Same goes for these peculiar bans – why do you go all out supporting them?

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 2:24 pm
France under Monsieur Socialiste has just brought in a boisson sucrée (soft drink) tax too

It’s pure thievery. There is no reason whatsoever to put a tax on a legal product other than to feed the hungry and ever-expanding government machine.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 2:31 pm
A lot of Vietnamese ladies cycle around, should we import a bunch to even up the score?

Dan

17 Jan 13 at 2:35 pm
Yes, Lizzie, it’s Methodists. Methodists (and similar non-conformist denominations) were the backbone of the British Labor Party until about the 1970s. In Australia, the Irish Catholics were predominant, thankfully, but there was always a good sprinkling of puritanical Methodists in the ALP as well.

Presbyterians were more inclined to the conservative side of politics in Australia, not least because their Scottish roots gave them a healthy respect for making money and respect for good whisky.

johanna

17 Jan 13 at 2:41 pm
To the doctors out there and other researchers and scientists in the medical/anthropological type area (and modern, too).

I saw an item this week on TV about the prevalence of bubonic plague, citing recent diagnoses of two people in the US.

Doing a bit of a search I found a researcher who said that bubonic plague couldn’t have come from rats because with all the humans dead and buried in mass graves why weren’t there masses of dead rats along the thames and around London during the plague, and why weren’t they found in archaeological/anthropological digs in, say, London?

He’s deduced that rats and fleas didn’t carry the plague, he’s decided it was transferred from human to human.

My question is that as this disease was a successful disease because it didn’t kill the rats but was fatal to humans, like hendra or lyssa in flying foxes which doesn’t kill them (or doesn’t kill them quickly), but is fatal when transferred to humans and horses, there wouldn’t be great piles of dead rats around the place – do we find great piles of dead flying foxes around where they roost?

kae

17 Jan 13 at 2:42 pm
despised the state apparatus. This group adore it. The Monsters and Stepford’s of this world exist for it. They kneepad.

Yeah, no, I don’t understand why they do that. It’s like they enjoy self-flagellation and wearing sackcloth and ashes. But how pathetic is their complete compliance with everything this Green/Labor/union government does? Not once any criticism, never any dissent, just complete and utter adoration. It’s like that other cult, the one that centres on da climate god Gaia.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 2:44 pm
I hate bike riders. They are too scared to mix it with real traffic so they terrorise innocent walkers with high speed feints, merrily ringing their stupid bells while narrowly avoiding fatal collisions and subsequent streetfighting. They are either Gaian drongoes or Nazis or Stalinists.

I dont ususally approve of government interference, but I would support legislation to outlaw bicycles and all who ride on them. To be compassionate maybe they could be restricted to Tasmania and Rottnest Island.

Jannie

17 Jan 13 at 2:51 pm
John H, you might be interested in this interview of Stephen Mumford over at 3am magazine (which is a internet treasure). Aristotle’s revenge, indeed.

Thanks DB, good stuff. Very relevant to an issue I am exploring in this quiet time. Last week I read “Chaos of Delight: Science, Religion and Myth and the Shaping of Western Thought.” Geoffrey P. Dobson. Too light for you. The link also addresses some issues raised in a recent discussion with an AI bod concerning the “symbols in the brain” problem. The clever young bastard has made me return to thinking about things I’d rather not think about(too difficult) but I am trying to prepare a blog post on this issue.

John H.

17 Jan 13 at 2:53 pm
Marco Rubio:The President Doesn’t Have the Guts To Admit He Doesn’t Believe in 2nd Amendment

Obama doesn’t just oppose the Second Amendment. Obama hates the American model. All of it: individualism, capitalism, devolution of power, personal responsibility, government being beholden to the people. He hates its history with the Founding Fathers being dead white men. He hates the notion of American exceptionalism and believes that America should bow to lesser nations, even ones without democracy or human rights! He hates the notion of fiscal responsibility as implied by the Founders and sees the power of the USA coming from its ability to borrow. He hates all of it.

It’s no secret, he ran on it in his first campaign! He said openly I’m going to change this to a new ~~socialist~~ utopia. And people swallowed it.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 2:54 pm
I dont ususally approve of government interference, but I would support legislation to outlaw bicycles and all who ride on them. To be compassionate maybe they could be restricted to Tasmania and Rottnest Island.

Just make them pay their own way. That would fix everything.

Though, in all seriousness, they should have insurance (like the Europeans) and they should be fined for breaches and accidents they cause on their drivers licence (which to some extent they are).

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 2:56 pm
“A lot of women don’t want to cycle because they get helmet hair, or they have a very different perception of the risk of riding on the road.”

Chicks on bikes also have more trouble with their naughty bits.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:09 pm
Bisexual parents threaten the core of the LGBT parenting narrative

They do? I thought LGBT was Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered…

Or am I under a misapprehension?

I have met homosexuals who dislike bisexuals because they feel bisexuals should decide which sex they prefer and stick to that decision.

kae

17 Jan 13 at 3:10 pm
“Just make them pay their own way. That would fix everything.”

Um, they do so as much as anyone road user.

“I hate bike riders. They are too scared to mix it with real traffic so they terrorise innocent walkers with high speed feints, merrily ringing their stupid bells while narrowly avoiding fatal collisions and subsequent streetfighting. They are either Gaian drongoes or Nazis or Stalinists.”

If you ride on the road next to a bike path, some dick in a car will almost certainly abuse you. But I have every sympathy for walkers and runners who get scared by the idiots riding fast on shared paths.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:12 pm
Doh! “any other road user”

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:13 pm
Perhaps one of the best tablet reviews of all time, probably because it was done with a hangover. Pity it runs windows 8.

Why am I here in this basement in Munich at the age of 26 staring at a man fire a laser pointer at a graph? How did this happen? I wanted to be a Sky Pirate. I don’t understand any of this.

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 3:13 pm
“It’s pure thievery. There is no reason whatsoever to put a tax on a legal product other than to feed the hungry and ever-expanding government machine.”

??? Should we tax illegal products instead?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:16 pm
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/01/uncovering-union-violence.html

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:17 pm
Should we tax illegal products instead?

Excellent suggestion.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 3:21 pm
Should we tax illegal products instead?

Well, you generally tax things you want less of. It would appear to be a logical step.

q

17 Jan 13 at 3:21 pm
Should we tax illegal products instead?

Well, you generally tax things you want less of. It would appear to be a logical step.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:22 pm
the comments at the bottom of the tough book review are a cack too.

Dear Grant.
I read this and laughed so hard I wee’ed a bit. I have given birth recently – so its not , you know, what it once was ‘down there’ – but I hope you take it as a compliment nonetheless.
Lots of love,
Benny. x

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 3:22 pm
Um, they do so as much as anyone road user.

Garbage. The construction of cycle ways and cycling shoulders are not paid for by cyclists. They’re paid by fuel excise among other things. Roads deteriorate from environmental causes. Cyclists get the repairs made to these roads for free.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:25 pm
John Howard pens New York Times article on the wonders of his anti-guns bedwetting. That link: The Australian runs picture of his most cowardly, disgraceful moment.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 3:32 pm
Instapundit:

WHILE OBAMA WAS ACCUSING REPUBLICANS OF “HOLDING THE COUNTRY HOSTAGE” ON THE DEBT CEILING, actual Americans were actually being taken hostage by Al Qaeda.

What a clown Obama is. Just a clown.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 3:37 pm
Obama doesn’t just oppose the Second Amendment. Obama hates the American model.

Joe Biden agrees with you:

In 2008, campaigning among Virginians at the annual fish fry of the United Mine Workers of America, Biden told the crowd in his best folksy, “G”-less yell that “Barack Obama ain’t taking my shotguns, so don’t buy that malarkey. Don’t buy that malarkey. They’re gonna — they’re gonna start peddling that to you. I got two. If he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem.”

Of course, you can consider that comment in the Democrat context of Guns for Me, not for Thee!

Token

17 Jan 13 at 3:38 pm
“Well, you generally tax things you want less of”

Like income, let’s hope that’s not the plan!

“The construction of cycle ways and cycling shoulders are not paid for by cyclists. They’re paid by fuel excise among other things. Roads deteriorate from environmental causes. Cyclists get the repairs made to these roads for free.”

All taxes go into consolidated revenue and then get spent on whatever. Also, did you consider that cyclists might be:

1 drivers as well;

2 high income earners;

3 buying cycling products and paying GST;

4 also saving money through reductions in congestion and public transport subsidies?

Or was it just reflex anti-cyclin dumb-assery?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:39 pm
History will judge Howard as our 3rd worst PM.

He really is a terrible piece of work.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 3:39 pm
Alan Langer suddenly bulked up. Steroids.

What about Sam Stosour? Her neck, her shoulders her arms, she is exhibiting a lot of odd ‘man signals’.

Helen Armstrong

17 Jan 13 at 3:39 pm
“What about Sam Stosour? Her neck, her shoulders her arms, she is exhibiting a lot of odd ‘man signals’”

Including an apparent taste for pussy.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:40 pm
Biden was doing a Kerry. During the 2004 race, he did this to placate Americans:

http://www.maineoutdoorstoday.com/photot11.jpg

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 3:40 pm
“History will judge Howard as our 3rd worst PM.”

Who do you put first and second?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:41 pm
He was our second longest serving PM for a reason (other than he was the best of the usual crap bunch of Australian politicians), but ultimately: fuck Howard.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:41 pm
Fleeced, Myrddin, if you are playing Civ2, before you load your game, go to the MPS file, rules file and alter the values for resources from particular land forms. It can rebalance the game to one which extracts a lot of food and shields from the sea, or making deserts good mining centers. The AI will adjust for these changes.
Don’t forget to remove expiry dates for the Wonders.
Units can have their movement allowance increased, as well as attack/defence points.
Lots of fun…

Winston Smith

17 Jan 13 at 3:42 pm
What about Sam Stosour? Her neck, her shoulders her arms, she is exhibiting a lot of odd ‘man signals’.

She certainly isn’t exhibiting any “balls” based on last nights pathetic choke.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

17 Jan 13 at 3:43 pm
History will judge Howard as our 3rd worst PM.

He really is a terrible piece of work.

What wankery…

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 3:43 pm
Howard ultimately did the very un-Liberal thing of raising welfare into the middle class and raising taxes to cover it. He judged this would keep him in power because it would take a while for people to work out what was going on, and he was right. The ‘Howard Battler’ middle class were a great coup for big-government conservatism in this country.

Howard’s one brave stand was Work Choices. He does deserve to be commended for this, but unfortunately it didn’t come off.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:47 pm
Who do you put first and second?

Gillard, Rudd, Howard.

Whitlam was terrible but did exactly as he promised he would.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 3:51 pm
“Howard ultimately did the very un-Liberal thing of raising welfare into the middle class and raising taxes to cover it. He judged this would keep him in power because it would take a while for people to work out what was going on, and he was right.”

Yeah, the people were crying out for a small govt PM to lead them to the sunlit uplands of libertarian utopia, and that sneaky HoWARd tricked them!

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:51 pm
From that RMIT report:

Cycling currently plays only a minor role in reducing car use in Australian cities. Although it is important to provide safe, convenient facilities for cyclists, some of the extravagant rhetoric currently circulating about cycling needs to be given a rest. Policy-makers need to pay attention to the extremely restricted constituency that currently dominates the cycling ‘market’ (mainly male, inner city professionals), and develop measures to make cycling a viable option for a wider section of the community, as is the case in the best European cities.

Funny – I thought the cycling “market” in Sydney was dominated by Clover Moore.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 3:51 pm
Pedro, that’s not even nearly what I said.

The people wanted bread and circuses. That’s usually the realm of the ALP. Howard made a very clever play and got the Libs onto this bandwagon, and rode it for eleven years.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:53 pm
Pedro

Excise tax and rego is supposed be directed toward roads. It more than covers the cost. The fact that it all goes into general revenue isn’t the fault of drivers.

Bikers don’t pay these things and get a free ride. I dunno how you would argue against it.

Most of the fuckers have a serious attitude too.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 3:53 pm
Great photo of a dog doing to KRudd what he did to Australia.

What do you do if a Rottweiller is rooting your leg?
Fake an orgasm.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 3:54 pm
So Fraser at 4? And Whitlam was worse, but gets bonus points for honesty about his bad intentions? and Howard leaves the Country in a great state, instead of a steaming heap of whitlamite doo-doo, but that’s less important than whatever transgression has you marking him down?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:55 pm
I have no problem with cyclists, but they get an extraordinary amount of concessions that they don’t pay for, because their activity has achieved a certain amount of political correctness and enviro-cool.

The real cycling demographic is absolutely tiny.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 3:57 pm
John Mc, you suggested that the people were tricked by Howard, in what way exactly?

JC, if I get up at 5.00 and ride for a couple of hours before work, and I then pay lots of tax from my job, I’m somehow ripping you off?

Happy to agree on the attitude, but that’s probably just the normal percentage of people who are fuckwits no matter what.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 3:59 pm
Yeah, the people were crying out for a small govt PM to lead them to the sunlit uplands of libertarian utopia, and that sneaky HoWARd tricked them!

That’s true. It is perhaps unfair of me to blame Howard. My infrequent jaunts amongst the unwashed scum that make up the bulk of the populace of this unflushed toilet we call Australia should have reminded me that he was giving them what they wanted.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 4:00 pm
Howard left the country in a great situation. It’s true. He stood with the Americans, he tried Work Choices on.

He was one of the last people I voted for but he’s still a big-government conservative c*** who hates freedom.

(You just can’t please some people!)

[We're hoping to avoid language like that. Sinc]

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:00 pm
Howard left the country in a great situation. It’s true. He stood with the Americans, he tried Work Choices on.

He was one of the last people I voted for but he’s still a big-government conservative c**t who hates freedom.

(You just can’t please some people!)

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:00 pm
Gillard: Tony Abbott a courageous hero.

“It is incredible that no lives have been lost and that is an incredible tribute to everybody that has bravely fought these fires,” she said.

“We are not counting the cost in lives and that is a tremendous achievement.”

PM praises firefighters’ battling of a ‘perfect storm’.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 4:02 pm
Also, the excise and rego fees are not set to cover road costs at all, they’re just tax. The idea that cyclists get this massive concession is just nonsense. I notice nobody says they same about pedestrians.

There is lots of bad policy about cycling, but that’s not our fault. I guarantee you that anyone who rides like me (quiet hours for exercise and then work commuting) is using fuck-all public resources and reducing road congestion and public transport subsidies with the sight of my big arse hanging over the edges of the saddle as the only externality!

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:03 pm
John Mc, you suggested that the people were tricked by Howard, in what way exactly?

That in the long run the higher taxes and larger government he oversaw (by the end of his time, despite early cutting) would eat into the prosperity his government initially gave them.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:03 pm
No, you aren’t ripping me off as I consider myself a very kind person by not agitating that you pay your own way. However the special tracks and shit like that are something entirely different. And men is spandex with attitude annoy me. It’s against nature for mens private parts to be scrunched up like that… and very very gay.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:03 pm
I notice nobody says they same about pedestrians

Basic human right ensuring the free movement of people i.e. individual freedom. It’s one of the actual, real roles of government.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:04 pm
oops in…

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:05 pm
Peds aren’t using roads. They use sidewalks.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:06 pm
“he’s still a big-government conservative”

There are only three ways to get elected, you can be a big government conservative social democrat/agrian socialist; a bigger govt left social democrat or a biggest govt green/dem wanker. That covers pretty much every independent I can recall knowing anything about.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:06 pm
The idea that cyclists get this massive concession is just nonsense

How is it nonsense? You get the use of relatively good roads (from the broader perspective, I’m sure cyclists aren’t happy) with special concessions like bike lanes and bike paths, for the use of a tiny demographic of enthusiasts, and you don’t pay for this.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
How can you tell when The Australian’s lefty blogger Mumble doesn’t like what he is hearing?

Comments short and on-topic please. No partisan ranting thanks.

Update: comments are closed.

Maybe this is why,

“Gillard is asserting authority, building incumbency” you say. Exactly how is she doing that considering she has been on holidays, visited a bushfire, played with her dog and made only motherhood statements?
…
Mate, this is an extremely weak puff piece and I expect more when I read your blog.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
JC, when you step out of your front gate you will find yourself on the road, its just the bit reserved for pedestrians and it costs money too.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
Howard stood before Australia’s law-abiding salt of the earth in a bullet-proof vest.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
IT, How Fraser didn’t make your top 3, I don’t know…

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
Gillard: Tony Abbott a courageous hero.

Yes, spectator big-note Julia spreads largesse while participant Tony goes quietly about his duty.

stackja

17 Jan 13 at 4:07 pm
Julia Gillard met a person in a giraffe suit at a school in Sydney’s Dundas Valley (and not, as she initially tweeted, St Marys, which is some 33km away).

How very unsurprising. And the ‘giraffe’?

It was part of a campaign against cyberbullying, giraffes being famous for the strong stance they take on the matter.

Reminds of this cuddly animal hero with a cause…

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 4:08 pm
They use ~~sidewalks~~ footpaths, FFS.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 4:08 pm
There are only three ways to get elected, you can be a big government conservative social democrat/agrian socialist; a bigger govt left social democrat or a biggest govt green/dem wanker. That covers pretty much every independent I can recall knowing anything about.

Agreed, more or less. But I judge politicians on their moral values and their principles. I generally despise people who just want to ‘get elected’ and are willing to be an immoral player to get it. Despite the pedestal he’s often put on, Howard was just another one of these.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:09 pm
JC, when you step out of your front gate you will find yourself on the road, its just the bit reserved for pedestrians and it costs money too.

Nope. Sidewalks aren’t roads, pedro.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:10 pm
Howard stood before Australia’s law-abiding salt of the earth in a bullet-proof vest.

Those protests were at least tens of thousands strong. It was probably his lowest point.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:11 pm
Those kids with the air rifles should have used chicken pellets, worn duffel coats and aimed for centre mass.

Abu Chowdah

17 Jan 13 at 4:12 pm
What’s a “sidewalk”, JC?

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 4:12 pm
In any event there’s upkeep for sidewalks is in council rates.

The more I think about it the more annoying the spandex brigade becomes.

Some of them have serious fucking attitude too. Most, though not all are fucking greenslime anyways.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:12 pm
IT, How Fraser didn’t make your top 3, I don’t know…

It’s a bloody competitive field.

As far as I can tell the only PM we’ve ever had we can be proud of was John Gorton.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 4:12 pm
Yeah, there is no Jefferson of Australian politics. Ever!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:13 pm
Footpath, Ent.

It’s about the only americanism I have left in my vocab I guess.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:13 pm
JC please refrain from using “sidewalk”. It upsets the locals.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 4:15 pm
you are forgiven this time…..

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 4:15 pm
am I on?

Alice

17 Jan 13 at 4:15 pm
IT

Stop being an asshat. HoWARd is not in the top three.

Fraser would be on the list after the little turd and the lying slapper.

In any event the lying slapper is in a category of her own. Not even Rudd and I despise the little bastard a great deal was better then her.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:16 pm
How Fraser didn’t make your top 3, I don’t know…

Please register one more vote with Skuter on that one.

Myrrdin Seren

17 Jan 13 at 4:19 pm
Rudd could have been worse than the lying slapper except that she cut him down in his prime.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 4:19 pm
Stop being an asshat. HoWARd is not in the top three.

It’s my contention that Howard paved the way for the fascist nanny state we now live in by giving succour to the mouth breathing mongs who ruin every bit of fun in life.

At heart he was a suburban letter writer to the local paper about loud parties and rambunctious youths.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 4:21 pm
Rudd could have been worse than the lying slapper except that she cut him down in his prime.

Perhaps. But Rudd wasn’t a crook who deserves to be in a cell for 10 years as a result of committing fraud.

He didn’t make a solemn pledge not to introduce a carbon tax and then 3 months later was doing a deal with the slime by introducing one 3 times the world price.

He would not have done a deal to form a coalition with a group of disgusting fascists.

He’s not living in the Lodge with an out of work slob.

As I said, the Slapper is in a category of her own.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:24 pm
Gillard, daylight, more daylight, KRudd and Whitlam.

Fraser is lucky Labor have lowered the bar even further.

KRudd’s kitchen cabinet with Gillard, Swan and Tanner probably represents the worst example of representative cabinet government we will see in our lifetimes.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 4:25 pm
Howard had the time to revolutionise the country, repeal laws (including the anti-Bolt law), sell the ABC etc. He chose expensive populism instead. IT has a point. It’s not just what you do but what you don’t do that can and should be held against you.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 4:26 pm
“Howard stood before Australia’s law-abiding ~~salt of the earth~~ subsidy mongers and professional whingers in a bullet-proof vest.”

JC, trust me, it’s the road, and most likely it was constructed with the road pavement by the same contractors and now it gets maintained out of the same bucket of money, either the Council or the State depending on its place in the road hierarchy.

John Mc, I pay lots of tax, are you saying that because there is not a specific tax for cycling as an activity, I’m dudding the taxpayer? Also, those cycle lanes that are bugging you, if there’s fuck all cyclists how are we to blame for the pollies building them? The vast majority of cyclists I know are business people and professionals.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:28 pm
Howard bought at least two elections. We are still paying for them.

H B Bear

17 Jan 13 at 4:30 pm
oh and I forgot..

Rudd wasn’t continually fucking married men with kids and then having the hide to refer to a married man with 3 girls and the same wife a Miss O’ginist.

The list is..

The Lying slapper

nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil

Whitlam
Rudd
Fraser..

The spots in between have yet to be filled.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:30 pm
The construction of cycle ways and cycling shoulders are not paid for by cyclists. They’re paid by fuel excise among other things. Roads deteriorate from environmental causes. Cyclists get the repairs made to these roads for free.

Most cyclists out there also drive/own cars so there is some contribution on their part to road building and maintenance through registration taxes. Roads also deteriorate due to cars and especially trucks driving on them. Relatively speaking bikes cause very little damage to roads.

Chris

17 Jan 13 at 4:31 pm
I said I don’t hate cyclists. I hate anything in the PC and enviro agenda and cycling has got itself into there. (But don’t try to tell me that all cyclists hate this fact, either).

But as a matter of fact, if we look at where tax dollars go, it is a highly subsidised activity.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:31 pm
Liberty Quotes

“The world you are proposing is a libertarian fantasy land, where everyone has maximum freedom backed up with more personal firepower than the average Taliban terrorist.” — Paul “m0nty” Montgomery

Bwahahaha!

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 4:32 pm
I’ll have to get off the kool aid, there I was thinking 96-07 were pretty good years with a great govt and it turns out i was blindly walking the road to serfdom!

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:33 pm
CL

Of course IT has a fair point. All the things he describes critical of HoWARd are true. But he’s not in the top three, leaving the slapper aside with the empty spots.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:33 pm
But as a matter of fact, if we look at where tax dollars go, it is a highly subsidised activity.

So is having sex but we don’t here you complaining about that.

kelly liddle

17 Jan 13 at 4:34 pm
Most cyclists out there also drive/own cars so there is some contribution on their part to road building and maintenance through registration taxes.

That would be fine if they paid a generic fee for use of the road, but that’s not how our system works. It’s heavily policed that you pay for the right to use an individual vehicle on the road, and if you don’t pay for that vehicle you don’t get to use it on the road. Maybe we should change this?

Relatively speaking bikes cause very little damage to roads.

Yeah, but cyclists aren’t (mostly) asking for (or getting) mountain bike tracks. You want a certain quality of surface and that requires upkeep just due to environmental damage alone. That upkeep is expensive, even for your bike lane, and what you pay as a cyclist wouldn’t cover it.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:37 pm
KRudd’s kitchen cabinet with Gillard, Swan and Tanner probably represents the worst example of representative cabinet government we will see in our lifetimes.

Future generations will look back us with pity and shame for allowing those 4 to run the country.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 4:37 pm
What about Joe Lyons as being one of the best, IT? He cut public spending and debt and helped Australia recover from the great depression…

Gorton increased public spending on the arts FFS…he was also a centralist.

But as for third place in the worst, I’d put Whitlam, Fraser and McMahon in a three-way tie…

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 4:38 pm
I’ll have to get off the kool aid, there I was thinking 96-07 were pretty good years with a great govt and it turns out i was blindly walking the road to serfdom!

I wonder if the Greeks have a period in recent decades where there was an 11 year good run and everyone felt the good times would never end!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:38 pm
Here you go, Sinc, don’t be sad about eating cows and lambs in future, Forests are being slashed for Soy.

H/T Blair

Helen Armstrong

17 Jan 13 at 4:38 pm
So is having sex but we don’t here you complaining about that.

I’m assuming you mean kids.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:39 pm
JC please refrain from using “sidewalk”. It upsets the locals.

Barnsey got away with it!

Steve D

17 Jan 13 at 4:39 pm
“But as a matter of fact, if we look at where tax dollars go, it is a highly subsidised activity.”

You’ve studied the taxes spent on cycling? Which would be the odd footpath a bit wider and some lines in the existing road reserve? Sheesh, talk about snouts in the trough. Even the fattest arse on the clunkiest dragster is doing effectively zero damage to the road fabric.

Fuel excise exists to raise tax not pay for roads. Rego is a drop in the ocean.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:40 pm
The KRudd/Gillard government has got to be a contender for the worst government since Menzies. Whitlam was a radical commie, but there was substance to what he did than anything this pissweak, pathetic, spendthrift government has ever done.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:41 pm
Future generations will look back us with pity and shame for allowing those 4 to run the country.

Why would they have pity on us? We have arguably the highest or at least one of the highest living standards in the world at the moment. This can come to an end pretty quickly but it hasn’t yet despite the abovementioned.

kelly liddle

17 Jan 13 at 4:43 pm
So is having sex but we don’t here you complaining about that.

Kelly, get back in the cab.

How is sex subsidized you dolt?

JC

17 Jan 13 at 4:43 pm
Uh-oh. Americans, including some Catholics, still showing nuance on abortion:

Most Americans remain opposed to overturning the controversial U.S. Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade, which 40 years ago legalized abortion at least in the first three months of pregnancy, according to a poll released Wednesday.

The Pew Research Center found that 63 percent of Americans said that Roe v. Wade should not be completely overturned, compared with 29 percent who said it should be. These opinions have changed little from surveys in 2003 and 1992, Pew reported….

Large percentages of white mainline Protestants (76 percent), black Protestants (65 percent) and white Catholics (63 percent) say the ruling should not be overturned.

The poll also found that 47 percent of Americans said they believe it is morally wrong to have an abortion. These opinions have changed modestly in recent years.

The CL interpretation will still manage to claim triumph out of nothing much.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 4:46 pm
Pedro, all of that may be true but it doesn’t change the facts. Fuel excise is paid by motorists. They pay more in fuel excise than is spent on road infrastructure, let alone their component of road infrastructure. That’s before rego and other fees which apply to motorists. That fact it’s a ‘tax’ not a ‘fee’ doesn’t change anything; it’s an extra tax levied on vehicle drivers alone. There is no extra tax levied on cyclists and there are extra provisions made for them in the form of bike lanes, bike paths, bike parking and extra regulations and enforcement.

Enjoy your cycling but reality is what it is.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
Gorton increased public spending on the arts FFS…he was also a centralist.

Who gives a shot. The bloke had his face burnt off and still found time to sneak out of the Lodge at night to sword sheilas. Legend!

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
IN honour of John Gorton, who is an excellent after dinner speaker, by the way, I have a good friend who named their daughter Ainsley….

entropy

17 Jan 13 at 4:51 pm
I’m assuming you mean kids.
How is sex subsidized you dolt?

JC and John
It can be argued due to our big government stuff that subsidises or taxes almost anything that something is subsidised.

Healthcare is subsidised and having sex, often results in health implications along with preventative activities like the HPV vaccine or Hepatitus vaccine. Controlling fertility is subsidised and of course the outcome of sex being the baby bonus it does not cost $5000 more in food for a mother to produce a baby.

kelly liddle

17 Jan 13 at 4:51 pm
“I wonder if the Greeks have a period in recent decades where there was an 11 year good run and everyone felt the good times would never end!”

That’s right, it was beer and skittles the whole time. No debt hangover from keating, no asian meltdown, no US recessions. Just happy happy days that a drover’s dog could govern through.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:52 pm
John Mc, I think you’re missing my point, lots of tax is paid by various people in varying degrees and it basically has no relationship to their calls on govt. The idea that fuel excise is some special case is nonsense, especially when the level of excise is unrelated to the amount spent on roads and nobody pretends otherwise.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 4:55 pm
Kelly, don’t tell me you ‘don’t hear me complaining about that’. I complain about subsidies to all those things. Usually on this site.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:56 pm
John
You probably do just thought I would add it in lol.

kelly liddle

17 Jan 13 at 4:59 pm
Well, Pedro, as is the whole point of a site like Catallaxy, that doesn’t make it right. Only the most essential things should be funded indirectly through taxation. In the case of most things, especially non-essentail things like cycling, the cost should be put on to the user to varying degrees, if not mostly.

And fuel excise is such an enormous tax, imposed on such a very specific activity, that there are many reasons not to consider it as a standard generic tax like GST.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 4:59 pm
Arguing about whether cyclists are subsidised is actually quite tricky because I suspect they are high personal tax payers on average which covers a lot more than any percieved subsidy they might recieve. It could be argued that pedestrians are the most subsidised group because most people are too lazy to walk anywhere so the footpaths are now provided to the few.

kelly liddle

17 Jan 13 at 5:03 pm
One thing me must do is stop the monopoly racket that Taxi drivers have on private transport. In a free country everyone would be a taxi for the right price.

It is unseemly.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 5:06 pm
I worked out a while ago that between income tax, GST and Fuel Excise, out of every dollar a typical income (as in $80K) earner earns for fuel, around 60c goes to the government. That’s before you get to the tax paid by the service station and the fuel supplier. And if you consider it for use of vehicles (as Pedro doesn’t, because it’s a ‘tax’ not a ‘fee’) then think about what else he pays to use his car to get to work like rego.

Yet, 90%+ of personal trips are taken by motor vehicle. That’s the real reason the extra taxes are there. It’s unavoidable. You can’t really miss it.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:06 pm
JC and John
It can be argued due to our big government stuff that subsidises or taxes almost anything that something is subsidised.

Sure. One can argue anything Kelly. But it doesn’t mean the argument/opinion carries any validity. You’re and idiot for suggesting sex is subsided.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 5:07 pm
You’re and idiot for suggesting sex is subsided.

the Shagger would disagree. (with the last part).

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 5:09 pm
Only the most essential things should be funded indirectly through taxation. In the case of most things, especially non-essentail things like cycling, the cost should be put on to the user to varying degrees, if not mostly.

How is cycling any more or less essential than driving? Surely transport is transport.

Thing is, cyclists don’t need wide or high quality roads so cycle tracks cost bugger all to build. The only “cost” is the land they are sitting on, but then vehicle drivers don’t pay the full price of the much larger land that roads are sitting on, because state governments just put their hand up and claim the land.

I’m not against cyclists paying in proportion to what they actually cost (which is very little) but the point about fuel excise is that it is easy to collect, whereas turnpikes on cycleways are going to be a pig of a thing.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 5:11 pm
Arguing about whether cyclists are subsidised is actually quite tricky

When taxes are high, numerous, diverse and kept out of site as best as possible (e.g. withholding wages rather than demanding a cheque on 1st July), government spending is enormous, politicians get elected by pork barrelling, and the people want free stuff from their elected leaders, it’s very hard to work out who’s paying for what. Politicians and bludgers (………but I repeat myself) like it that way.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:11 pm
Reminds of this cuddly animal hero with a cause…

Rabz, just letting you know that is one of those nasty generic no-escape links that wouldn’t let me return to the OT, designed by some fascist misanthrope in Silocon Valley.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 5:13 pm
How is cycling any more or less essential than driving? Surely transport is transport.

As I’ve said, the car user pays, more than once over for his activity, so he doesn’t really get a subsidy for his activity.

But how is a car essential? As I’ve said, 90%+ of personal trips are made by motor vehicle. The cycling demographic is tiny. The market has spoken.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:14 pm
I’ll also point out that since cyclists have every bit the same right to be on the road as anyone else (under the most basic concept of liberty, because they are public roads), one would think it would be in the driver’s interest to encourage cycle ways to make life easier for everyone.

For that matter, same applies to pedestrians and footpaths, with no footpath the occasional pedestrian has every right to walk on the road, and drivers have an obligation of non-violence toward that pedestrian. Both groups benefit from the arrangement.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 5:16 pm
But how is a car essential? As I’ve said, 90%+ of personal trips are made by motor vehicle. The cycling demographic is tiny. The market has spoken.

The market doesn’t determine my liberty buddy.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 5:16 pm
90%+ of personal trips are made by motor vehicle. The cycling demographic is tiny.

Pedro, do you vote Green?

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 5:16 pm
“Howard stood before Australia’s law-abiding ~~salt of the earth~~ subsidy mongers and professional whingers in a bullet-proof vest.”

Do all the strike-throughs you like.

He behaved like a coward demonstrating a hatred for freedom and Australian everyman. On that day, Howard was lower than Bob Brown or Jim Cairns.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 5:17 pm
Well if you want a new user pays system then fine, but the current system is what we have so picking our subsidies on the basis of one tax levied by the govt that does not own the roads doesn’t get you too far.

See if you can see fuel taxes in this chart:
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20Features~Taxation%20revenue~293

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:18 pm
Uh-oh. Americans, including some Catholics, still showing nuance on abortion.

No, there is no nuance.

A majority of Americans now oppose abortion on demand.

Pro-abortionists like Steve have lost that cherished old dogma.

In fact, as reported here a few days ago, Planned Parenthood (founded by a wacko racist) has now officially abandoned “pro-choice” as a slogan as well. Their research has told them it’s considered code for pro-abortion and is therefore toxic.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 5:20 pm
Sorry, Tom, if it’s any consolation it works on the iPad…

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 5:21 pm
Tel, I agree pedestrians should be provided access ways in the interests of a universal right. Free movement of people is a universal right. That gives government the right to fund this through indirect taxation.

But car drivers are a different matter because what they want is very expensive, and a high speed policed road is getting beyond a universal right that should cost extra. And it does. Then there’s the freeloaders that car drivers also pay for with the extra tax (that is just a generic ‘tax’ but only applies to motor vehicle drivers).

Cyclists want access to all of this – a nicely maintained road surface, policing, as well as special things just for them like bike lanes and bike paths – but they don’t want to pay more (well some might, but they currently don’t).

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:21 pm
The market doesn’t determine my liberty buddy.

The market absolutely doesn’t determine your liberty. But your liberty doesn’t give you access to things other people have paid for.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:23 pm
“Reliable access to sex cost me a fortune” said a long term married male friend of mine.

jumpnmcar

17 Jan 13 at 5:23 pm
“Pedro, do you vote Green?”
LOL

“He behaved like a coward demonstrating a hatred for freedom and Australian everyman. On that day, Howard was lower than Bob Brown or Jim Cairns.”
Rubbish. I’m not sure how you can even read the screen with the spittle flying everywhere as you mouth the words you are typing. Honestly, it’s a blog so you expect some nonsense, but still …

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:24 pm
On that day, Howard was lower than Bob Brown

Please C.L., that is so scathing it makes me look away from the screen.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:24 pm
“But your liberty doesn’t give you access to things other people have paid for.”
I think you’ll find that the road is part of a little thing called the commons, along with the beach and the parks and all the other stuff you’re not paying a fee to go on.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:25 pm
““Reliable access to sex cost me a fortune” said a long term married male friend of mine.”

Assuming the fortune is the divorce settlement, either:
1 access to sex wasn’t reliable so he dumped the cow; or
2 she found out about his reliable access to sex.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:27 pm
“Pedro, do you vote Green?”
LOL

Pedro, answer the question, please.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 5:27 pm
Whitlam was a radical commie, but there was substance to what he did than anything this pissweak, pathetic, spendthrift government has ever done.

Whitlam’s refusal to accept the people who helped Australia pre the fall of Vietnam helped create the boat people problem whereby thousands died at sea.

Add to that his stated admiration of the Khmer Rouge even after the world knew of the Killing Fields and it is clear that he alone has a record the equal of Rudd/Gillard.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 5:28 pm
Tom, according to CL, I’m a lefty fellow traveller and all other sorts of wicked, but that’s just his usual standard of honesty.

Let me ask you, what exactly have I written that would make you think I’m a greens voter?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:30 pm
Tom

Pedro is a long time Catter. He’s basically a libertarian.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 5:31 pm
Kevin Rudd – responsible for doing away with Howard’s border laws, thus causing the deaths of more than 1000 human beings – weighs in on the NRA’s brilliant ad that totally destroys Obama for hiding himself and his children behind guns. Rudd even hints that the ad should be banned by the US government:

The NRA has launched a television advertisement in response to Mr Obama’s gun control plan, questioning why his daughters are protected by armed guards while the president opposes putting such guards in schools.

Former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd has described the campaign as “one of the most offensive ads of all time”.

“No political leader anywhere in the world, whatever their political party, should have to put up with this,” Mr Rudd said on Twitter.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 5:32 pm
I think you’ll find that the road is part of a little thing called the commons, along with the beach and the parks and all the other stuff you’re not paying a fee to go on

The footpath is the commons. A stock route is the commons. A public waterway is the commons. We all pay for the commons. We all have equal access to the commons only limited by other people’s rights.

Because our society wants cars to the level they do, roads are not like this. Roads are paid for with very specific taxes and fees. These fees and taxes more than cover the cost of the roads; they are not subsidised. We limit access to the roads so cars are able to do their thing at the expense of other people who may want to use the commons for other things. This is very clear through the policing of roads and the way we charge people for the use of roads. Roads are public, but they are outside of your definition of the generic commons.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:32 pm
Rudd even hints that the ad should be banned by the US government:

And doing away with the boat policy.

Okay fine. Have it your way then.

The Lying slapper

nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil
nil

Rudd
Whitlam
Fraser..

JC

17 Jan 13 at 5:36 pm
Can anyone justify my boat rego ? $175 pa
And don’t say boat ramps, smart fisherpeople go where no ramps are.
Anyway most are just 20x5x0.3 slabs of concrete.

jumpnmcar

17 Jan 13 at 5:37 pm
what exactly have I written that would make you think I’m a greens voter?

You ride a bicycle. You don’t want to pay for the roads you use that are paid for by road users who drive cars and trucks. Bicycling is an arm of the Greens movement.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 5:37 pm
“Roads are paid for with very specific taxes and fees.”

No they are not. Roads are state and local responsibilities and fuel excise is a commonwealth tax. Rego is 3/5s of fuck all.

The money from fuel excise goes into commonwealth treasury along with the income tax, CGT, GST, FBT and so on and is then doled out by the grants commission in tied and untied grants that are assessed using exactly zero regard to the amount of petrol you put in your tank.

I know you’re very ernest about this and all, but wrong is wrong so just get over it. In fact, buy a bike and get with the program.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:40 pm
I look like a greenie because I ride a bike! Hey, i’ve got solar panels too. Do you know why I bought those?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:40 pm
Kae, re your query on the plague (as in The Black Death) which no-one has answered, I read up a bit on this some years back. The main issue is the difference between bubonic plague and pneumonic plague. Bubonic is fairly straightforward, caused by a bacillus received from vector fleas on infected rats, clearly identifiable and producing nasty lymph node boils called buboes – death within days after symptoms. Pneumonic plague is spread via droplet infection, by hand or sneezes etc. – it passes from person to person without a vector to carry it. It kills very quickly indeed, sometimes within only a few hours from first symptoms, and that is the issue. A pneumonic variant of plague still seems to be medically validated as far as I know.

But some dissenters say the quickness of lung destruction (especially as recorded in medieval and less studied pandemics) is far more symptomatic of an influenza virus, such as H5N1 or variants like the 1914-8 pandemic, or even a ‘new’ form of corona virus such as SARS was.

We just don’t know. In medieval times both things may have been spreading at the same time, and population resistance was very weakened (some say due to climatic changes causing famines etc). The poor copped it worse than the rich, as usual.

Plenty of mummified rats have been found in buildings etc from the medieval plague period and it is well-documented that rats in modern plagues also died from the bacillus infection. Control of rats is a public health measure against plague, and it works (there are some wonderful pics of happy rat catchers in the Sydney plague of 1901 at The Rocks, posing proudly with their piles of dead vermin). Additionally, rat corpses disappear far more readily than human bones do.

Others may have more, or more recent info. Mine is from memory.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 5:41 pm
Tom, according to CL, I’m a lefty fellow traveller and all other sorts of wicked, but that’s just his usual standard of honesty.

I haven’t commented on you at all, Pedro, and I couldn’t possibly adjudge you as wicked on the strength of your online banalities. You like to pretend to be wicked because you’re one of these faux-libertarian wankers who thinks Hugh Hefner is more important than Milton Friedman.

I was merely pointing out that Howard behaved like a coward on that day. He did, and there’s no room for argument on that. Not merely a coward but a physical coward.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 5:45 pm
Hey, i’ve got solar panels too. Do you know why I bought those?

Dude.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 5:47 pm
Howard’s Tough Gun Laws going well:

Kids see random shooting in Vic car park.

The two men did not know each other and there was nothing inflammatory said by the victim who was shot at near point-blank range, Det Sgt Kahan said.

“It’s without motive, it’s unexpected. The victim was not able to defend himself in any way.”

Quite.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 5:53 pm
“Roads are paid for with very specific taxes and fees.”

No they are not. Roads are state and local responsibilities and fuel excise is a commonwealth tax. Rego is 3/5s of fuck all.

Just because the tax system is completely muddled in this country and federalism has been undermined, doesn’t mean that people aren’t paying for the things they use, and different people aren’t paying different amounts. Rego may be “3/5s of fuck all” but Fuel Excise isn’t. Fuel Excise might be a ‘generic tax’ by your (strange) definition, but only things that use fuel pay it i.e. not cyclists. The costs borne by fuel-burning motor vehicle users covers the amount spent on roads and some more.

Like I said, enjoy your cycling but facts are facts.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 5:54 pm
JC, when the govt creates winners and suckers, which line will you join?

Ummm, CL, you just did it again. Yesterday I was one of those fakes more worried about David Marr’s opinion than anything else. Now I’m a Hefner fan. Do you even listen to yourself?

As for Howard being a coward because he put on a BPV (and a physical coward at that) – shit but you’re a dick.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 5:58 pm
i’ve got solar panels too. Do you know why I bought those?

To impress a chick?

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 5:59 pm
Pedro and Tel, I have toyed with the ideas of a true ‘commons’ for transport for some time (beyond the footpath), often on this site. It’s partially tongue-in-cheek, but it’s also backed up by the notion of free movement of people being a universal right, and the commons supporting this role is a legitimate, publicly funded commons.

It would be a pathway system that was designed for low maintenance, and largely not maintained. Probably look like stock routes in rural areas, something else in urban. It would try to use space that no one would particularly be interested in. You could travel on it by foot, bike, horse or horse-drawn vehicle, maybe electric vehicles, maybe some normal vehicles. It would have rules to make it truly a ‘commons’, as in it would be accessible to everyone, probably follow the rules of shared spaces. Needless to say, travel would probably be quite slow!

It would also probably end up looking sh**ty over time, and as the market suggests, the vast, vast majority of people would prefer to pay a premium for a nice motor vehicle on a nice road. But I still think it can be justified in theory.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:01 pm
“Just because the tax system is completely muddled in this country and federalism has been undermined, doesn’t mean that people aren’t paying for the things they use”

Err, that’s exactly what it means. If you don’t believe me then ring up colin Barnett and ask him.

“Howard’s Tough Gun Laws going well”
Yeah, I remember how it was back in 1995 when everyone had their six-shooter on their hip. You can’t deny them was the GODs, that Howard sure has a lot to answer for.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:01 pm
“It would be a pathway system that was designed for low maintenance, and largely not maintained. Probably look like stock routes in rural areas, something else in urban. It would try to use space that no one would particularly be interested in. You could travel on it by foot, bike, horse or horse-drawn vehicle, maybe electric vehicles, maybe some normal vehicles. It would have rules to make it truly a ‘commons’, as in it would be accessible to everyone, probably follow the rules of shared spaces. Needless to say, travel would probably be quite slow!”

You’re joking aren’t you?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:03 pm
“To impress a chick?”

I wish, but the dollars from the suckers will do just fine. I think of it as the tax reduction that’s just a bit of what I truly deserve.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:05 pm
As for Howard being a coward because he put on a BPV (and a physical coward at that) – shit but you’re a dick.

That was a first for Australia. It showed a divide and difference in trust between the government and the people that hadn’t been there previously. Particularly, is showed Howard’s disconnection with that section of the community, a section that would largely have seen him as their preferred candidate.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:06 pm
I think that sort of stuff operates in the UK Pedro, where people have a right of access on private property, usually rural or semi rural land where there are trails. I can’t recall what the right is called. Easements perhaps.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 6:07 pm
Err, that’s exactly what it means.

“and different people aren’t paying different amounts.”

Does it also ‘exactly mean’ that?

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:08 pm
He’s basically a libertarian.

No he’s not. Not when he calls me a bigot for advocating tolerance of gays (on Dover’s recent thread).

Seems I should have had ‘acceptance’. Mandatory apparently.

I told him some ways in which I have accepted gays which others may not wish to emulate (I wouldn’t force it on them) but I noted he later repeated his ‘bigot’ defense.

I felt a bit like that lady Gordon Brown had a chop at before he himself was chopped. Poor soul was a staunch old supporter until he made his ‘bigot’ statement.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 6:08 pm
You’re joking aren’t you?

Partially. But you do know footpaths and stock routes are real, don’t you?

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:09 pm
No he’s not. Not when he calls me a bigot for advocating tolerance of gays (on Dover’s recent thread).

Seems I should have had ‘acceptance’. Mandatory apparently.

Really?

Dude.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 6:10 pm
Hey, i’ve got solar panels too. Do you know why I bought those?

So you could rip off people who couldn’t afford them and drive up their power bills?

Stop digging, please.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 6:10 pm
So you could rip off people who couldn’t afford them and drive up their power bills?

Exactly. Especially the poor.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that. If the scheme is there, I totally support your exploitation of it.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:13 pm
No he’s not.

No, too bloody right, he’s not. He also demonstrated a couple of months back that he knew absolutely nothing about bozo boob carr’s medium density dream for Syd-dee.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 6:14 pm
I think that sort of stuff operates in the UK Pedro, where people have a right of access on private property

I would never support right of access on private property though.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:16 pm
John Mc, sure I do. They’re public land for the most part. If you look at title maps for rural land you’ll see all sorts of public land running through and along farms and often the neighbouring land owner gets a licence to use the area subject to any particular public rights. The you’re joking bit is because I can’t believe you want to exclude the normal roads from the commons. dude, get a life. If you’re worried about the size of the government then there’s a few beams you’ve looked past when spotting that mote.

Lizzie, when you say you tolerate gays you are also saying you disapprove. So that sounds bigotted. You can be a libertarian and worry about people being bigots, what you can’t do is want to make it against the law.

Rabz, sorry I don’t have your principles then, sucker.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:19 pm
John Mc, those things JC mentions are limits on title evolved over the centuries. Nobodies being ripped off from what I know.

Rabz, you were the one with a vision for the low density city. I’m against town planning. I was merely pointing out that what people want/can afford to buy is probably more important in the scheme of things than your prejudices.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:23 pm
Pedro, the roads don’t conform to the definition of the commons. It isn’t universal access, there’s very limiting rules controlling its use, and there are very specific fees charged for use. It is much more a fee for a service, and if you don’t pay the fee you don’t get the service.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:23 pm
Those access rights in the UK are continuously controversial and a point of conflict. One of the purposes of property rights is to resolve conflict. Clearly they’re doing something wrong.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:26 pm
Howard looking like Gargamel here…

Dan

17 Jan 13 at 6:28 pm
you were the one with a vision for the low density city

Still getting it wrong, I see.

Rabz

17 Jan 13 at 6:30 pm
I was a bit hurt because I have had a genuinely close relationship with a gay guy some years back in the inter-regnum between husbands The Leftie and Da Ape, and I know the anguish this man went through concerning his various feelings. As I did. He wanted to marry me and have babies. I thought it unwise, for me. He now identifies as completely gay. I know otherwise.

These things are not simple and tolerance can be a good idea. Call it acceptance if you wish. Or both.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
Howard looking like Gargamel here…

It’s pictures like that that make people turn against old white guys. I reckon it’s how Obama got elected!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:32 pm
If property laws resolved conflict then I’d be out of a job!

Roads sure do conform to the definition of the commons.

“Commons refers to the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of a society, including natural materials such as air, water, and a habitable earth. These resources are held in common, not owned privately. [1] The resources held in common can include everything from natural resources and common land to software.[2] The commons contains public property and private property, over which people have certain traditional rights. When commonly held property is transformed into private property this process alternatively is termed “enclosure” or more commonly, “privatization.” A person who has a right in, or over, common land jointly with another or others is called a commoner.[3]”

There are no fees for using the road unless it is a toll road, and even then it is still the commons. The fact that rules exist about the use of the commons is irrelevant. Sheesh.

Rego is not a road fee, it is a tax on owning a motor vehicle to be used on the road. Fuel excise is a tax on the sale of fuel. There is not a single law anywhere saying that you can’t use the road if you haven’t first bought some petrol.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:32 pm
Not when he calls me a bigot for advocating tolerance of gays (on Dover’s recent thread).

Seems I should have had ‘acceptance’. Mandatory apparently.

That’s pretty low behaviour and something I’d expect those in lefty chardonnay circles to use when their arguments flop in a heap.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 6:33 pm
He now identifies as completely gay. I know otherwise.

You should have converted him once and for all, Lizzie!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:33 pm
Lizzie, so there are no hurt feelings, I’ll remind you what I said:
“You don’t tolerate homosexuality, you accept it. But maybe you didn’t realise you’re sounding like a bigot.”
So I did’t say you are a bigot. contra tel, tolerate and accept have different meanings.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:36 pm
Gab, you’ve nailed me on the chardonay at least. Second best white grape for sure. As for my arguments on the gay marriage thread, well, if that’s a flop I’ll have seconds please.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:38 pm
The roads are overwhelmingly set up for motor vehicles. This may still be a majority decision, but if the roads were truly accessible by the public they would be used for more things. You may argue that things like fuel excise and rego is a generic tax, but it’s only levied on specific people to fund the things they use (and some graft for other hangers-on).

Rego is not a road fee, it is a tax on owning a motor vehicle to be used on the road.

You’re a lawyer, aern’t you? Sheesh, indeed.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:39 pm
Glutton for punishment it seems you are, Pedro. Oh well, each to their own, live and let live – oops how very libertarian of me.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 6:40 pm
There is not a single law anywhere saying that you can’t use the road if you haven’t first bought some petrol.

Just that probably 99%+ of road use involves petrol. Again, lawyer eh?

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:41 pm
You don’t tolerate homosexuality, you accept it.

Got that, Lizzie? If not, if you disagree, then you are a bigot. How dare you think otherwise!

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 6:42 pm
“but it’s only levied on specific people to fund the things they use”

You keep getting this bit wrong.

“In later years, however, the principal rationale for fuel taxes has been to provide a general source of government revenue. Tax concessions have remained in the fuel taxation structure for fuel used other than as a transport fuel or for a number of uses of petroleum products other than as a fuel.5 These concessions take the form of lower excise rates, remissions or refunds of excise duty and can generally be seen as mechanisms for providing tax relief to legitimate users of petroleum products for uses other than as a transport fuel.

Since the early 1980s, the emphasis on fuel excise as a significant source of government revenue has grown, along with an increase in excise evasion activities. This has resulted in an incremental approach to restructuring and extending the range of fuels to which excise applies, to protect the revenue source, and an increase in compliance provisions to detect evasion.”
http://fueltaxinquiry.treasury.gov.au/content/backgnd/002.asp

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:44 pm
” It isn’t universal access, there’s very limiting rules controlling its use, and there are very specific fees charged for use. It is much more a fee for a service, and if you don’t pay the fee you don’t get the service.”

These are you words not mine and they are not true at all.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:46 pm
Gab, what would you call a person who says they tolerate blacks or jews or whatever? A libertarian? A conservative? Greeny? Or a bit of a bigot?

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 6:47 pm
Honest.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 6:49 pm
Yes, Pedro it’s bullshit. Because we throw the money in one bucket before we spend it, or call it some form of generic ‘tax’ it doesn’t make it any more legitimate or different in any way, or change the nature of who is paying.

Fair taxes to fund generic things should apply to everybody. i.e. income tax, or GST. That crap is like saying the extra tax on tobacco is just a generic form of revenue.

You simply want to justify the roads as commons because of your personal bias to cycling. Let’s just agree to disagree.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:51 pm
” It is much more a fee for a service, and if you don’t pay the fee you don’t get the service.”

These are you words not mine and they are not true at all.

Then try not paying the fees on any motor vehicle you choose (like the other 99%+ of road users) and take it on the road.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 6:53 pm
So it doesn’t bother you if people don’t like blacks. Thanks for clearing that up Gab. You’re an ornament to the right.

John Mc, that would mean I’m illegally using a car, but if I walk on the road then that’s fine. Rego is a tax on using cars not roads.

My argument is not so much with you vision of how things should be (other than the bucolic commons), but with you mixing that up with reality.

But as Tel said, why should roads be user pays? Have you really thought about the implications of that? Fuel use is a very limited proxy for the cost and use of roads. Even when you are I are driving, the tax paid and the cost imposed on society from our respective usage will not be like for like. If one of us is a farmer then we’d likely be using lots of little used and expensively maintained road.

Isn’t having a common way of getting around a pretty good and essential thing? Do you hate government so much you don’t even want public roads? I think we should just accept the roads as a good thing benefitting everyone and difficult to user price. They are fuck all of the welfare state and so not really worth fretting about.

Pedro

17 Jan 13 at 7:09 pm
Hi Lizzie, thanks.
This was one of the recent people who survived plague.
There was also a pre-teen who wanted to bury a dead squirrel while on a camping trip and wrapped her sweater around her waist after putting it down on the ground beside the dead squirrel. She contracted bubonic plague and there were noticeable bites around her where her sweater was tied.
Bernie Sloane reckons the plague was spread by humans, not by rats and fleas.

Not the original source for the Sloane article I saw, but it’ll do.

I just wonder.

Like the new, recent info about the “slaves” who built the pyramids, which I learnt in school, now we understand from archaeological digs and anthropologists working out what they’ve found in the digs. The people who built the pyramids were very well taken care of. It was a form of tax that they would work for so long on the pyramid project.

Though I find it hard to change my mind about the rats and fleas not spreading the plague.

The black plague was rats and fleas, the pneumonic plague from droplet infection, I think the buboes were only present in the black plague.

I’ll have to do more reading!

Thanks again, Lizzie!

kae

17 Jan 13 at 7:10 pm
I don’t recall any specific movement or mass protest from cyclists that they wanted cycle paths/lanes or whatever. government, in their wisdom, deemed them necessary for the safe passage of their citizens in daily life.

Dan

17 Jan 13 at 7:11 pm
So it doesn’t bother you if people don’t like blacks

These are you words not mine and they are not true at all. But do continue on in your supercilious fashion, it’s amusing. And telling.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 7:27 pm
I don’t recall any specific movement or mass protest from cyclists that they wanted cycle paths/lanes or whatever

You’ve never heard a cycling lobby group on the news? You’ve never heard of Clover Moore?!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 7:37 pm
Pedro, at the end of the thread you re-iterated:

I was just pointing out that she sounded like a bigot and that is nasty. Even libertarians can be nice and expect that of others

Tolerance is nice, Pedro, and so is acceptance.

No hard feelings, it was just a silly bit of internet-ism, but words like ‘bigot’ should be used fairly carefully, imho.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 7:38 pm
There are no fees for using the road unless it is a toll road, and even then it is still the commons.

I had to go out. 1.5 hours later you’re still arguing for free use of roads on your bicycle when motorists pay rego and fuel excise – taxes which are designed to pay for roads.

And you still haven’t answered my question: do you vote for the Greens?

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 7:40 pm
Just watched the NRA add. The left have no shame. It doesn’t even go close to infringing any right or freedom of the kids, it doesn’t harm them and it changes nothing in their lives. Their lives changed when he became president.

What the left did to Sarah Palin’s children, the daughter in particular, was nothing short of an unforgivable disgrace that did infringe seriously on her children.

The left are the best hypocrites in the world and Krudd is a fuckwitted, fame obsessed, never to be PM again going nowhere. He should take up with Steve out at Pinkenba and talk about vaginal bacteria.

Tiny Dancer

17 Jan 13 at 7:40 pm
Pedro, wrong analogy. One that does you no good service.

‘Tolerance’ is live and let live.

‘Tolerating’ is putting up with something one doesn’t agree with or dislikes and carries a different shade of meaning. You are playing with semantic shift here, and I actually find it specious and disingenuous.

Now go and put your thesaurus onto that.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 7:45 pm
…it doesn’t harm them and it changes nothing in their lives.

They are counting on the laziness of the morons who vote for them.

Token

17 Jan 13 at 7:45 pm
Fuck me, I’m can’t wait until the transcript for 7.30 comes out. Leigh Sales beclowns herself royally tonight in her interview with the guy from the Gun Owners of America group…

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 7:47 pm
…I can’t wait…
Dirty stinkin’ smartphone…

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 7:52 pm
Fuck me, I’m can’t wait until the transcript for 7.30 comes out.

Thanks for the headsup Skuter, I’ll watch it in 1/2 an hour.

jumpnmcar

17 Jan 13 at 7:57 pm
Skuter

Leigh Sales seemed to be in a state of hysteria!!

Des Deskperson

17 Jan 13 at 7:59 pm
Jump, the bit where she takes her point about an armed populace to the *cough cough bullshit* logical extreme is hilarious…

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 8:02 pm
why have I been banned?

Alice

17 Jan 13 at 8:05 pm
Des, isn’t she always? I hardly watch 7.30 any more, largely because she works herself up into such a state. It is very offputting. Would rather watch my mother in law pole dancing…don’t know why I bothered tonight to be honest.

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 8:06 pm
ABC has been completely in Labor-promoting election mode in today’s news and 7.30 offering. Climate disaster, gun disaster and priestly disaster. All on your taxes and mine.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 8:09 pm
That is how you deal with Sales.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 8:11 pm
I’ve got a little one running around here being very excited, which sort of takes the edge off Leigh Sales and her hysteria. Little one wins hands down. Generally more sensible too.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 8:11 pm
That is how you deal with Sales.

Pretty to watch!

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 8:18 pm
Is Leigh Sales a vegan, does anyone know?

She has that emaciated/demented look.

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 8:20 pm
“No political leader anywhere in the world, whatever their political party, should have to put up with this,” Mr Rudd said on Twitter.

Put up with freedom of expression?

Does that oxygen bandit even know what he’s saying?

Abu Chowdah

17 Jan 13 at 8:23 pm
Gab, what would you call a person who says they tolerate blacks or jews or whatever? A libertarian? A conservative? Greeny? Or a bit of a bigot?

In our mad rush to attribute flawed or immoral ideology to people who say they tolerate others, isn’t it true to say of average people that we tolerate everyone? There are people of my own sex and ethnicity who shit me to tears that I tolerate because that’s civil.

Hell is other people.

Abu Chowdah

17 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
All fuel excise, motor vehicle registration fees and other road charges go straight to Treasury. They aren’t hoovered up by the RTA and then spent on roads. Whilst the RTA collects fees for registering your car and licensing you as a driver, they collect those fees on behalf of Treasury – they don’t get to keep the money for their own budget. Go read the RMS annual report (the financial section) – it’s all spelled out in very fine print that is impossible to find.

In other words, fuel and car taxes are not hypothecated. Do you think the taxes you pay when you fly are spent on airports and air traffic control?

Fuel is taxed because:

1. the tax can raise a lot of money, because we buy a lot of fuel
2. it’s easy to collect

It’s not taxed to pay for roads.

The NRMA were complaining about this in the latest copy of Open Road, which I was perusing last night. Their complaint was that only 8c out of 30-something cents in fuel excise was spent on roads.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 8:40 pm
The Lucky Two.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 8:42 pm
Doubtless Pedro has taken a brutally rational view of solar panels so good on you Pedro.

Pickles

17 Jan 13 at 8:46 pm
Just watched the 7:30 Report up here. That fellow from Gun Owners of America was brilliant. Got to look him up.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 8:48 pm
Howard had his failings, but turned out pretty well until he stuffed up by avoiding the sort of “renewal” that gets Labor another turn most times despite being fake and contrived – which a handover to Costello would not have been.
But some still want to rubbish him, despite the record of achievement.

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 8:49 pm
Fuel is taxed because:

1. the tax can raise a lot of money, because we buy a lot of fuel
2. it’s easy to collect

It’s not taxed to pay for roads.

So fucking what. You sound like a bunch of socialists: “it’s not really your money”.

We know how much is raised by fuel excise. We know how much is spent on the road infrastructure. We know that all of the fuel excise is raised by people who use the road infrastructure. And from all of this we can deduce, quite rationally, logically and correctly, that motorists who use the roads not only pay for the roads but a whole lot of other shit as well which is worth more than the roads themselves.

You don’t need to cling to your cycling sacred cow to the point of stupidity. Most of us don’t really care about cyclists, we’re just pointing out facts.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 8:53 pm
But some still want to rubbish him, despite the record of achievement.

Maybe true, but……I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: big-government, middle class welfare, freedom hating c**nt!!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 8:54 pm
That is how you deal with Sales.

Kick her in the slats? Or mount an irrefutable argument that makes her look like a window licking leftist harlot with a double digit IQ?

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 9:00 pm
That is how you deal with Sales.

That’s easy. Look at her calmly, smirk and tell her that you will answer questions, but won’t take any of her smarmy behavior, nor the trick she copied off fat Tony Jones of interrupting mid sentence and if she doesn’t like it, she can fuck right off.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 9:07 pm
I notice Tubbsy Milne’s little blog helper has slunk off into the night. You can pick ‘em from a mile off. Carbon copy of SteveC.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 9:16 pm
I’d ask her if she enjoyed it as much as I did, Lawsy-pimp style.

.

17 Jan 13 at 9:21 pm
The opening of IT’s 9 pm comment is surely too nasty to stay.

Sale’s interview was not great – her set questions didn’t follow up on anything he said, really – but she was hardly “hysterical”.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 9:22 pm
The opening of IT’s 9 pm comment is surely too nasty to stay.

Do you think so? Because I reckon it’ll stay there! What’s the bet?!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
Miranda Devine’s been filling in for Bolt this week with Steve Price on 2GB at 8pm – but by phone. Tonight, Tim Blair was on, and was in the studio by the sound of it, but I didn’t find out until too late. Should be available as podcast tomorrow, and he’s going to be on again tomorrow night I think.

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 9:27 pm
The more I think about it the more annoying the spandex brigade becomes.

Some of them have serious fucking attitude too. Most, though not all are fucking greenslime anyways.

JC I agree with you on many things, but here you’re full of shit, and have no idea what you’re talking about.

The ‘spandex brigade’ (and I guess I’m one off them but not as full on as some), as you call them are most definitely not greenslime. They’re MAMILs (Middle Aged Men In Lycra), and are generally investment bankers, partners at KPMG or in some other $150K+ corporate job. Those carbon fibre road bikes cost a fair bit and only good capitalists can afford them. It’s essentially replaced golf as the upper white collar dude’s sport of choice.

There are greenslime who ride bikes – but the don’t do Lycra, they dress like hipsters or with dreadlocks and ride fixed-gear bicycles.

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 9:28 pm
I think the most prophetic statement that guy said is “because once you do it, you can never go back.” It’s true. Australia will never realise its position as a leading western nation. We have the living standard, and that’s great, but we’re not a trail blazing nation. We’re not going to take anything to new heights. We have what we have very much as the guest of the leading western nations who look to us as the bright little child of the family with a lot of potential. But the sad fact is we will never realise that potential. The truth is, in a century or so, Australia will be a handmaiden to Asia, while the other western nations have more than enough on their plates to be worrying about our interests. They will expect us to stand on our feet as an adult, and it’s unlikely that in our current form we will be able to.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:29 pm
come to think of it, there’s another reason why Paul Mees hates cycling

papachango

17 Jan 13 at 9:30 pm
Steve as someone who was recently banned from Catallaxy for physically threatening women you should STFU.

Infidel tiger

17 Jan 13 at 9:31 pm
The ‘spandex brigade’ (and I guess I’m one off them but not as full on as some)

Depends how fat you are in the lycra. How quickly can you do 40kms?

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:31 pm
The NRA is regularly introduced by the ABC as “the powerful gun lobby”. The Shooters & Fishers are portrayed as warping the NSW democracy. But the Greens and Independents are given the royal treatment. Some minor political parties or lobbies are less equal than others. Is that discrimination of a sort they should be decrying (by their own standards) but are not?

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 9:32 pm
Steve, as someone whose contributions are worthless and as someone who is actively despised and unwelcome, you should STFU.

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 9:36 pm
Steve, just STFU.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:37 pm
Those carbon fibre road bikes cost a fair bit and only good capitalists can afford them. It’s essentially replaced golf as the upper white collar dude’s sport of choice.

Idiots.

You can’t get drunk, or talk about women that are hot, dodging the L 90 on the spit bridge.

Cycling is not zen like enough for me.

.

17 Jan 13 at 9:37 pm
I’m just stating it like it is. I don’t get a choice where my income taxes are spent. They are divided up by the government via the budget process and spent on all sorts of crap. Taxes are taxes, regardless of what they are on – land, capital gains, dividends, interest, income, fuel, house sales, cars, clothes, books, food, electricity, insurance – whatever. All the taxes we pay are mixed up in a big bucket and doled out to the spending departments or the states. There is no linkage between fuel excise and road spending. I wish there was – I’d like better roads to drive on too. But there isn’t.

I’m not arguing as some crazy cyclist. I drive 5 times more miles each year than I ride. Probably 1% or less or adult cyclists are cyclists only – ie, don’t own a car or drive. Most of us are motorists who also happen to ride a bike a bit.

boy on a bike

17 Jan 13 at 9:38 pm
Cycling has become a bit like parachuting. The fat chick who couldn’t run to save her life can come out and do it, and thereby be “living on teh edge™ “, because at the end of the day, it ain’t that hard. Though, to be fair, to actually ride somewhere on your bike will require some level of fitness. But as they say, to sit in a cafe in lycra………..

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:40 pm
I’m paying for cars for myself and two other family members, and do a bit of bike riding for exercise, some of it on roads around the suburbs, some on a cycle track where available. Who’s to say I’m not paying my way?

blogstrop

17 Jan 13 at 9:42 pm
Just saw that spankably naughty girl trying to beat up her father on 7.30. The arrogance: why doesn’t America behave like Australia? The ignorance of liberty and the philosophy of the US Constitution. Banana republic TV. “Pwned” doesn’t even get near it. Strongly recommended viewing.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 9:44 pm
All the taxes we pay are mixed up in a big bucket and doled out to the spending departments or the states. There is no linkage between fuel excise and road spending. I wish there was – I’d like better roads to drive on too. But there isn’t.

It’s a bit like the “Chewbacca Defence”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 9:44 pm
All the taxes we pay are mixed up in a big bucket and doled out to the spending departments or the states. There is no linkage between fuel excise and road spending. I wish there was – I’d like better roads to drive on too. But there isn’t.

It’s true but.

New housing construction can get taxed up to and indeed over 80% – after all other taxes have been paid?

What do new home owners get out of this? 20-30 years of housing costs above rental payments!

The taxes collected then go to support discrimination commissioners, the subsidisation of tenancy councils, state rail where they can’t even figure out how many people are on the books, etc.

.

17 Jan 13 at 9:55 pm
Missed 730 tonight (this actually started over two years ago…) but looked up the segment on the net.

Leigh Sales vs the US guy was like watching Little Dorrit boxing with Cassius Clay. He simply ran the barking mad-eyed witch through a woodchipper without breaking so much as a sweat.

A thing of beauty.

Mk50 of Brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 9:59 pm
It’s true, but you know how much certain people are paying e.g. home buyers. And you know how much is being spent on them. You can only mask a rip-off to such an extent.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 10:01 pm
Nilk

Got the greenfilth form letter. I don’t want to post here what I sent in, just yet. I want to see if it makes it into their senate documents.

Shall I just say… T4? And that surely nobody, not even scabrous festering vermin like greenfilth, could be so stupid.

Mk50 of Brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 10:03 pm
The arrogance: why doesn’t America behave like Australia?

Australia is a global pissant.

Us lecturing America is like Tuvalu giving us advice on cricket.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 10:05 pm
This site should get you lot going

Dan

17 Jan 13 at 10:08 pm
You get my recommendation. I still play Civ2 at spare moments.

Haven’t played that version for donkey’s… though it is the version I remember most fondly. It was the last one with a proper manual as well.

I’m playing Civ5, atm… it has proven successful in keeping my attention for a few hours at a time, so that’s a plus (I think)… Tired now, and I still haven’t finished.

Fleeced

17 Jan 13 at 10:10 pm
This site should get you lot going

For starters, it’s a great looking, well designed website.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 10:12 pm
I thought Sales was just normal crazy eyed persona.

Helen Armstrong

17 Jan 13 at 10:24 pm
Here we go folks…pure idiocy from Sales.

LEIGH SALES: But with this armed populace argument, if we take it to its logical conclusion, even if every American had as many weapons as they like, the United States government and its army is always going to have more weapons so therefore no matter how many weapons you have, you’re still going to be defeated so therefore it’s a spurious argument to make.

LARRY PRATT: Well, that remains to be seen. There have been confrontations before. Actually when we started our country we beat the army of the most powerful empire in the world and we beat them with, starting with our muskets.

We have reason to be concerned about our government because it’s our government that was running guns deliberately into the hands of the Mexican cartel and the scandal that I’m sure you know of called fast and furious. It’s led to the murder of some 400 Mexicans and counting, two of our federal agents, and so it’s rather stunning that a government that would perpetrate such a monstrous crime is now telling the American gun owner, “You can’t be trusted. We need to have more control over you.” I don’t think so.

What sort of argument is that? The government can always smash their citizens…resistance is futile, so shut up!

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 10:30 pm
She ought to be called Leigh Pratt.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 10:32 pm
How you can be for gun control and not even admit fast and furious was wrong, is simple hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

.

17 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
As I expected, Gab won’t criticise IT’s puerile comment re Sales.

What a galling hypocrite.

steve from brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
What a galling hypocrite.

Why yes, yes you are SFB. Please don’t threaten to slap me in the face again.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
LEIGH SALES: But with this armed populace argument, if we take it to its logical conclusion, even if every American had as many weapons as they like, the United States government and its army is always going to have more weapons so therefore no matter how many weapons you have, you’re still going to be defeated so therefore it’s a spurious argument to make.

What an idiot. As history suggests to anyone who isn’t an uneducated ABC moron, “the United States government” might not be one holistic entity arrayed against the populace. There might be like, TWO VERSIONS of the United States government, one of which is aligned to defenders of the Constitution.

But leaving that aside, why not argue that liberty itself is a pointless gesture given that “the government” has an absolute monopoly on violence and can therefore do whatever it likes?

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
The NRA is regularly introduced by the ABC as “the powerful gun lobby”.

And yet I’ve seen spokesmen from Marie Stopes International (the powerful abortion lobby) interviewed on the ABC – without any reference to the fact that Marie Stopes was a batshit insane Nazi.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 10:47 pm
Sales doesn’t understand marginalism.

.

17 Jan 13 at 10:48 pm
But wait folks, there’s more…

LEIGH SALES: In Australia, the government reacted to a massacre in 1996 by banning the sale, importation and possession of semi automatic rifles and by removing 700,000 guns from circulation.

In the 18 years before that we had 13 massacres. After that we had zero. We didn’t have a civil war, the government didn’t come and take all of our stuff away from us. Why not just give it a try in the US?

LARRY PRATT: Once you’ve given it a try there’s no going back and so in the United States we’re not going to do that. In the United States we are citizens in control of the government and as the Swiss say to this day, a rifle is the emblem of a free man.

LEIGH SALES: But it worked in Australia. Why not just try it?

LARRY PRATT: Your violent crime rate is not so admirable and besides…

LEIGH SALES: It’s a lot lower than yours.

LARRY PRATT: We’re not interested in being like Australia. We’re Americans.

LEIGH SALES: Pro gun activists want to see armed teachers in schools but in chaotic situations, highly trained police officers shoot and kill the wrong people. In war zones, highly trained soldiers shoot their own colleagues in friendly fire incidents.

What makes you think that a primary school teacher is going to be able to take out a mad gunman without killing children?

LARRY PRATT: Well the armed teacher is going to have a lot more chance stopping a mass murderer than the police who take 20 minutes to get there, as they did in Newtown, and that’s not an extraordinarily long response time. That’s just the way life works and so to tell somebody that we think no defence is a good defence is morally indefensible and we’re not going to tolerate that.

LEIGH SALES: There have been 62 mass shoots in the United States in the past 30 years. Not one has been stopped midway through by a civilian.

LARRY PRATT: The ones that did get stopped don’t make the list of 62 now, do they?

LEIGH SALES: I’m saying that there has not been a shooting where four or five people have been shot and then an armed civilian has come in and started shooting and averted disaster.

LARRY PRATT: What you’re saying is that you’re not accepting the fact that some of the shootings that have occurred were stopped before they could become what qualifies as a mass murder, four or five people that have been murdered and that has happened fairly frequently.

Skuter

17 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
What sort of argument is that? The government can always smash their citizens…resistance is futile, so shut up!

If Sales is being honest I can appreciate it. It’s a bit like that claim last night from Leigh Lowe that she’d rather be shot with a shotgun than a rifle (at close range) because she’d have less chance of dying. It’s just ignorance from people who don’t know about these things and no one has a duty to know about these things. History will tell you time and time again that a dispersed milita is completely capable of preventing conventional government-based forces from achieving their domination of a nation or people. In fact, it is the other way around: the militia will, in the long game, win every time.

Warfare is not like the conventional forces with warships and attack helicopters line up on one side of the battlefield and the Montana Militia on the other, and then have 48hrs to go for it. The reality is a militia can, and often do, stalemate or standoff conventional militaries and force them to the negotiating table. Or strategically or tactically cause them to be ineffective by other means. Even conventional military commanders are taught that a single sniper can halt a brigade advance, and that it can worthwhile to call in $100K of artillery barrage to dislodge him.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 10:56 pm
It is so obvious she is asking loaded questions.

Australia has had mass killings and mass shootings since John Howard’s useless and ridiculous laws.

.

17 Jan 13 at 10:57 pm
Sales surpassed herself with her hectoring the brain dead ALPBC memes this evening.

There have been 13 massacres in Oz prior to Howard’s gun laws. Que?

We banned assault guns in Oz so why don’t you just ‘give it a try’? Jeez!

If the population of the USA arms itself, it wouldn’t have a chance against the government, so why do it!

These ABC types are clinically insane..

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 10:58 pm
Ummm, CL, you just did it again. Yesterday I was one of those fakes more worried about David Marr’s opinion than anything else. Now I’m a Hefner fan. Do you even listen to yourself?

Yes, I do, Pedro. For example, I said nothing to you yesterday about David Marr. So I haven’t done anything vis-a-vis you “again.” On left-wing phony libertarians like you, yesterday I wrote (correctly):

We know without any shadow of doubt that children with a mother and father are better off in every way than other children. This is axiomatic. To deliberately deprive them of mothers and fathers by permitting homosexual adoption – or Frankensteinian in-vitro mash-ups for homosexual ‘parents’ – is, ipso facto, child abuse. (As we know, from previous discussions). The vengeful gay lobby is simply trying to use the state (and its monopoly on violence, of course) to destroy the meaning of actual marriage; the Dot wing of libertarianism is cheering them on under the lame figleaf of wanting da state to get outta da marriage business. Real reason: an infantile belief that unless the state forces people to alter something with a clear, millennia-old meaning, that this constitutes tyranny! Even that doesn’t quite explain it. It has more to do with the belief some ‘libertarians’ hold that they must sycophantically cling to leftists because leftists are the true Kool Kids – the rebs who smoke dope, loathe sexual strictures (and therefore Christianity) and constitute less embarrassing fellow-travellers than Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan. This species of libertarian suffers one fear more acutely than any other: to be guffawed at by David Marr; to be disinvited, as it were, from the key party of moral subjectivsm.

As for Howard being a coward because he put on a BPV (and a physical coward at that) – shit but you’re a dick.

Well, thanks for the fourth-rate ad hom. Sorry, but no cigar. Howard’s bulged bullet-proof appearance before a group of law-abiding farmers was one of the most cowardly acts ever committed by an Australian prime minister. It has since been claimed by apologists that there was a credible threat against him – which is 100 percent, unadulterated bullshit. If there was, any security agency familiar with the Zapruder film would have cancelled the appearance outright. So we know – for a fact – that there was no credible threat to his safety. None.

C.L.

17 Jan 13 at 10:59 pm
I would hazard a guess that the likes of our Leigh and – someone’s – Piers cannot conceive a 2nd Amendment foundation of a capacity to resist an unjust government because in their headspace Barack H. Obama will be succeeded by Michelle Obama, or Chelsea Clinton or Van Jones.

Therefore the Federal Executive Government will progressively move forward to a utopian society – running roughshod over an intransigent Congress if need be, and ensuring a social justice focused Supreme Court.

Now, if you could assert with a seer’s profound vision that the next President of the US will be a life-long member of the NRA working closely with a conservative, Tea Party-endorsed Republican majority, I suspect the utter confidence in a benign government would evaporate – and they would practically be screaming for UN peace keeping troops to keep the Bashir Assad-inspired red staters from unleashing a holocaust.

They simply cannot imagine that the next president will be anything other than Obama 2.0.

Myrddin Seren

17 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
no matter how many weapons you have, you’re still going to be defeated so therefore it’s a spurious argument to make.

The ignorant colonial fuckwit has no understanding of America. For a start, because of the Second Amendment, the US government knows it doesn’t have a monopoly on lethal force – and therefore, unlike our police forces – doesn’t behave like it. Because they have a monopoly on lethal force, the arrogance of Australian law enforcement agencies is palpable.

Case in point: Victoria Police boasting in their latest ad about their Big Brother technology’s ability to know everything about every licence plate, their authoritarian enforcement of speed limits and blood alcohol testing as a revenue agent for the state treasury.

Because Australian police leaders aren’t elected, there’s no accountability and no disincentive for corruption. Australian police culture would not be tolerated in the US.

The foundation of the US Constitution is to limit the power of the state and to make it the servant of the people. Under the Australian Constitution, there is no guarantee of fundamental rights such as freedom of speech and any parliament can revoke them. Australians trust the federal government by convention to uphold democratic principles but government is free to do what it likes with little constitutional limitation. Compared with the US, Australia is a banana republic.

Tom

17 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
Sfb. A knee padding cockheaded, women abusing, hypocritical beta male.

IT made perfect sense Steve. You’re out of the loop spoon.

tiny dancer

17 Jan 13 at 11:02 pm
Compared with the US, Australia is a banana republic.

Thank you, Tom.

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:05 pm
Sales is a dumb hillbilly.

What’s astonishing about Sales belief-system is her apparent belief that the US military will act like the german Heer and universally support the state in oppressive action against the population.

The trouble with this national socialist view Sales has is that it’s laughable. The USA has a volunteer military who take their oath to the constitution of the United States and not to God-King Buraq Hussein the Shiz (Paco™) and the new self-styled aristocracy of dropkicks.

Sales seriously thinks this military will permit itself to be used as an intrument of such oppression? Really? No wonder the American was laughing at the pig-ignorant hick from the hills.

I really do not think that highballing heroin, coke, meth and LSD is clever.

Oh, and by the way, Sales, me old moron? In the last six months the civilian population of the USA has purchased enough firearms to provide a new weapon for every member of the Chinese and Indian armies. Combined.

Just in numbers US deer hunters alone are the fifth largest army in the world.

Mk50 of Brisbane

17 Jan 13 at 11:06 pm
We hold these things to be self evident..

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:07 pm
So we know – for a fact – that there was no credible threat to his safety. None.

It was an act of political malice so brazen that he ought be shot in retrospect.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:08 pm
Just in numbers US deer hunters alone are the fifth largest army in the world.

That’s funny shit. I bet they’re more capable than some of the other four as well!!

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 11:10 pm
I felt embarrassed for Sales. Having to look down and read a question is so freaking fourth rate. Perhaps her kids are keeping her up at night and she’s tired? The ABC should get a man to fill in until she feels well enough to do 30 mins of work. Also her editors should have canned the interview and just extended the hatchet job segment on the Catholics.

Failing that they could have had a feelgood story about a puppy and a kitten cohabitating.

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
Compared with the US, Australia is a banana republic.

Don’t feel too bad, I’m sure the US will have caught up before much longer.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 11:13 pm
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
Because I reckon it’ll stay there!

And so it should, for educational reasons. I am learning some aspects of the vernacular that I have never come across before, and I find it most interesting hazarding guesses. I had not thought previously that to date I had led a particularly sheltered life, but there you go.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

17 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
You didn’t get the first part of it, Lazlo. The whole Dec is poetry.

John Mc

17 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
LEIGH SALES: In Australia, the government reacted to a massacre in 1996 by banning the sale, importation and possession of semi automatic rifles and by removing 700,000 guns from circulation.

In the 18 years before that we had 13 massacres. After that we had zero. We didn’t have a civil war, the government didn’t come and take all of our stuff away from us. Why not just give it a try in the US?

We certainly have had massacres since 1997. Just not high profile gun massacres.

Funny no one mentions the UK, where they have far stricter gun laws than us, and a bloke went round shooting people with a shotgun.

There was no one to stop him.

And for anyone who thinks knives aren’t very lethal, see how you would cope with this sort of attack (in this case, a simulation).

Eddystone

17 Jan 13 at 11:16 pm
as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I had not noticed this before. Effecting safety and happiness seems very good to me..

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:19 pm
So Barack Hussein is going to trash the Second Amendment over

firearms accounted for less than one half of one percent of all deaths in 2011.
…
…in 2011, the total number of gun-related deaths was 8,583.

Taken by itself, out of context, that number seems overwhelming. But taken in the context of overall deaths in America from–including natural causes–that number represents only .34 percent of all deaths for that year.

In other words, the percentage of deaths that were gun-related in 2011 does not even equal half of one percent of the 2,513,171 overall deaths for that year.

And if you really want to see how exaggerated the current anti-”assault rifle” rhetoric is, just look at 2011 numbers for the percentage of rifle-related deaths.

That figure is .012 percent of the overall deaths in America in 2011.

Meanwhile, the percentage of overall deaths that were the result of falling off things like rocks and ladders was 1 percent, or nearly three times the percentage of deaths that were gun-related: 26,631 versus 8,583.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 11:21 pm
I assume Obama has fixed the economy and now he is just mucking around with loose ends like gun control to kill time until 2016?

Infidel Tiger

17 Jan 13 at 11:25 pm
If you want some serious stuff, try this..

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:27 pm
Some excellent reactions on the Internet to Obama’s “gun run”

Here

Here

and a few more here.

Gab

17 Jan 13 at 11:28 pm
That’s a good tangential point, Laslo. Piers Morgan and stupid leftwing morons like Leigh Sales scoff at the idea the US government could ever be tyrannical.

Have they forgotten slavery was legal and state sponsored there at one time.

These people are absolutely fucking stupid.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 11:36 pm
I might point out that in New South Wales, footpaths are not paid for by government, they are paid for by home owners. The developer builds footpaths (and minor roads) when they do a housing development and the developer just tacks that onto the price of houses (with a markup presumably).

It isn’t voluntary for home owners to pay this, it is compulsory, but regardless of that, they are the ones paying. If it was voluntary you would have some developments with footpaths, and some without (possibly some with only footpaths and no roads for people who don’t like cars). Imagine the horrors if we allowed diversity.

The major roads like motorways are paid for by tolls and private/public partnerships, and for the most part they don’t have any footpaths on those. They tried to exclude bicycles too and eventually were told that a commons rule applied, but then they fixed that by putting “under construction” barriers over the far left lane and strangely never actually completing the construction. So the cyclists can be “temporarily” kept out on a permanent basis. So much for common law and right of way.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 11:38 pm
Tel

The problem is they a) have to pay inflated fees to the Government and b) must pay these fees even if the developers do not have the local council etc build the infrastructure and do it themselves.

.

17 Jan 13 at 11:41 pm
… it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…

Yeah, but they never explained how to get the job done.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2013/01/guns.jpg

Balcony top right, I reckon he missed one.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 11:47 pm
These people are absolutely fucking stupid.

No argument..

Lazlo

17 Jan 13 at 11:47 pm
Dot, either way the homeowners are the ones paying for the footpaths and minor roads. The developers always bring in a profit.

Tel

17 Jan 13 at 11:49 pm
Tel

Who has the primary responsibility of building the footpath- the potential homeowner who hasn’t signed up yet or the developer who is forced to spend the money as a result of the approval to develop?

You cannot say it’s the homeowner.

JC

17 Jan 13 at 11:54 pm
LARRY PRATT: Your violent crime rate is not so admirable and besides…

LEIGH SALES: It’s a lot lower than yours.

Hmmm.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime

Assault victims: 100% more than United States

Rape victims: 150% more than United States

The USA is worse (overall) on homicide, but that’s very unevenly distributed. The well off neighbourhoods are OK even in the USA. Also, the USA has a stupidly large number of prisoners 89 times more than Australia but that’s the dumbarse war on drugs and most of them are in there for very minor offences.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 12:00 am
In 2004 from Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage to Comrade Red Kezza: “I think while you slept, others were working, Sir.” and “Well I think the way you put that I’d have to respond with an eight-letter word. The word of course would be ‘nonsense’.”

You’d reckon TheirABC would have their cub reporters view and re-view that interview over and over again, and regularly write out 100 times “US diplomats can be very sharp, worldly, urbane and ruthless – way ahead of popguns like me.”

“I felt embarrassed for Sales. Having to look down and read a question is so freaking fourth rate.”

Embarrassed? I wouldn’t waste that time on a second rate newsreader paid first rate money who simply did not do her homework and reverted to shrill, recalcitrant 14 year old schoolgirl when she realised she wasn’t getting her own way.

I gave up on the ABC last century and looked at the 7:30 web site after reading comments here. That stupid cow’s effort was as unprofessional as you’ll see.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 12:04 am
Dot, either way the homeowners are the ones paying for the footpaths and minor roads. The developers always bring in a profit.

Sure they do.

When they get squeezed, they stop producing….and we end up with a housing boom almost nobody wants, like now.

.

18 Jan 13 at 12:06 am
Also, the USA has a stupidly large number of prisoners

Australia has a stupidly low number.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
Piers Morgan and stupid leftwing morons like Leigh Sales scoff at the idea the US government could ever be tyrannical.

No no. Not quite. When Bush was in office, they said repeatedly and solemnly that the US government could be and was tyrannical. Bushitler, remember?

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 12:08 am
Also, the USA has a stupidly large number of prisoners 89 times more than Australia but that’s the dumbarse war on drugs and most of them are in there for very minor offences.

This is definitely the war on drugs but some ~~conservatives~~ people will claim getting more crims behind bars is the reason for the lower assault/rape/whatever rate.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 12:08 am
My personal bias: lots of guns and a religious culture is the reason for that lower rate.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 12:11 am
Actually the USA prisoners at 89 times more than Australia is unfair because it doesn’t take into account population differences. The US has approx 10x larger population than Australia so on a per-capita basis it would have 8.9 times more prisoners.

Still a dumb way to run a nation.

This is definitely the war on drugs but some people will claim getting more crims behind bars is the reason for the lower assault/rape/whatever rate.

I think we would need some statistics on the type of convictions. Smoking a joint is not a violent crime in my books. Taking amphetamine and/or PCP is not of itself a violent crime, but can end up that way.

Most of the naturally backyard-growable drugs (pot, coca leaf, and opium) won’t mess you up as bad as the laboratory drugs will do. My plan would be to legalize the home growing but not the lab stuff.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 12:17 am
Tel, ecstasy or MDMA should be widely available everywhere and that is a lab made drug.

Infidel tiger

18 Jan 13 at 12:21 am
Why would you have the lab stuff if the natural stuff was virtually free and booze and ciggies weren’t taxed to exorbitant levels?

The same people doing so basically can’t ever be discouraged without unacceptably high penalties and unacceptably costly enforcement.

.

18 Jan 13 at 12:21 am
Tel, ecstasy or MDMA should be widely available everywhere and that is a lab made drug.

I’ve done some security work and I can tell you if more people took MDMA, they’d might turn into dribbling idiots in years to come, but they would be less likely to bash each other’s brains in.

Never had trouble with dudes on MDMA, apart from gushing with admiration and praise for no reason at all. If you’re working, the women are TOO friendly…however, if you’re not working…

.

18 Jan 13 at 12:24 am
I’m pro-drug liberalisation, Tel. Let’s start by legalising pot immediately and see how much we save.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 12:25 am
Why would you have the lab stuff if the natural stuff was virtually free and booze and ciggies weren’t taxed to exorbitant levels?

Because the effect is so much stronger. Eg. Hydro pot has a much higher THC content than bush pot. An old friend of mine grew some “bonzai pot”. Remarkable stuff, nearly all bud, half a metre high, very fast growing cycle, and very nice.

John H.

18 Jan 13 at 12:25 am
Since ecstasy turned to shit and people made the switch to meth and coke the nightclub world has become a toilet.

Infidel tiger

18 Jan 13 at 12:29 am
ecstasy or MDMA should be widely available everywhere

Opinions on that differ, the amphetamine family is big and complicated and weird. If properly made and also taken in moderation MDMA is pretty safe, but realistically if you legalize it under open slather some guy will try to make it and make a random batch of related but different drugs. If you legalize it under a cartel system where quality is regulated then some guy is going to take too much or mix it or do something generally stupid and demand compensation.

Why would you have the lab stuff if the natural stuff was virtually free and booze and ciggies weren’t taxed to exorbitant levels?

Well if the home grown undercuts the lab market then I’m not going to be upset. Probably some high power lobby money will be pushing the other way, but we have to ask ourselves how we feel about the democracy we have (while we still have it). The advantage of people growing coca leaf, and consuming what they grow, is that it is really hard to kill yourself with that, and basically you have to work at it pretty hard to get into trouble.

By the way, I also think that trading in these drugs should remain against the law, and production of concentrates (which exist primarily for the purpose of trade) should also be against the law. Large plantations should not be allowed.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 12:31 am
but realistically if you legalize it under open slather some guy will try to make it and make a random batch of related but different drugs.

Who gives a fuck? That already happens under the criminal cartel system. The consumer will quickly find discerning dealers.

Do you keep attending restaurants where the chef stirs the bouillabaisse with his cock? Hopefully not.

Infidel tiger

18 Jan 13 at 12:35 am
Tel

I don’t get your comments. You seemed to be admonishing the US for the war of drugs and the number of people jail as a result of drug related crime. You’re now suggesting that a large proportion of the trade should remain illegal.

What gives?

JC

18 Jan 13 at 12:40 am
Do you keep attending restaurants where the chef stirs the bouillabaisse with his cock? Hopefully not.

I admit that I probably could not taste the difference.

I just trust our government health and safety inspectors to protect me… and I prefer spicy hot curry to bouillabaisse so anyone man enough to stir that with his cock has probably earned my money.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 12:43 am
You’re now suggesting that a large proportion of the trade should remain illegal.

Supply and demand, if people can grow their own and a bit of local trade goes under the radar it will knock the crap out of the price.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 12:45 am
The consumer will quickly find discerning dealers.

Or an ambulance or the morgue.

kelly liddle

18 Jan 13 at 1:02 am
You’re now suggesting that a large proportion of the trade should remain illegal.

I am guessing Tel basically means the Australian system where taking drugs is not a criminal offence or even if it is now it is never enforced.

kelly liddle

18 Jan 13 at 1:08 am
Unfortunately drug dealers and their clients are far from discerning. The illegal drug economy can’t be regarded like any other economy. The only way to break it is for the govt to sell it at one low price.

Tiny Dancer

18 Jan 13 at 1:09 am
The advantage of people growing coca leaf, and consuming what they grow, is that it is really hard to kill yourself with that, and basically you have to work at it pretty hard to get into trouble.

Chewing Coca leaves and tea based on them is legal in Peru, even recommended by many to help with altitude adjustment. But if you’re looking for a high from them you’ll probably be rather disappointed.

I just trust our government health and safety inspectors to protect me

Singapore has a system where the health inspectors give the hawkers A, B, C ratings based on their inspections and the reports have to be prominently displayed. I don’t know if they pull their licence if they get too bad but it at least allows people to make a more informed choice wrt to balancing tasty vs hygienic food

Chris

18 Jan 13 at 1:11 am
Just watched Leigh Sales being humiliated on the 7.30 Report.

This is what you get for sending a flighty girl to do an adult’s job.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 1:28 am
This is rich! From news.com

“PUBLIC servants will be given legal protection for the first time to dob in colleagues who waste taxpayers’ money.
The Gillard Government is planning legislation to encourage whistleblowers to come forward with examples of serious financial waste.”

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 6:02 am
Examples of serious financial waste have been thick on the ground ever since Labor were elected by the half-aware electorate under diection from the complicit media.

Blogstrop

18 Jan 13 at 6:29 am
Gab, what would you call a person who says they tolerate blacks or jews or whatever? A libertarian? A conservative? Greeny? Or a bit of a bigot?

Pedro, the problem with the above is that tolerating blacks or Jews is not the same as tolerating gays “or whatever”. You’ve just begged the question. Firstly, what is even being tolerated in the former? There are no identifiable behaviours involved with being black (race); there are, however, with being gay (sexual orientation). Secondly, since what is being tolerated is conduct of a certain sort then surely we are perfectly entitled to say that while we tolerate conduct X we do not find conduct X acceptable. Otherwise, I’m not sure what work the idea of toleration achieves in civil societies in your view.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 6:33 am
Yes Blogstrop. I thought my head was going to explode when I saw that.

I can’t decide what is worse, their hypocrisy or their unbelievable lack of self-awareness.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 6:34 am
Pickering Post is still a good antidote to all the leftist dribble that seeps across the media landscape. He’s also a futarchy fan, or at least finds the betting market a lot more reliable than Newspoll.
The update on buried documentary treasure re AWU matter is also heartening.

Blogstrop

18 Jan 13 at 6:41 am
Just watched that Sales interview. My my, Larry Pratt, take a bow, that performance was masterful.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 7:00 am
I’m all for decriminalising home grown drugs but I’d rather not subsidisie their Medicare claims.

Forester

18 Jan 13 at 7:08 am
Jock McSporran will be inventing unicorns like they’re going out of style this year:

THE weakening employment outlook threatens to undermine the government’s economic message in the lead-up to the election amid forecasts the jobs market will worsen in coming months.

The jobless rate rose to 5.4 per cent last month following the loss of 5500 positions, while the share of the population that is employed is at its lowest point since the depths of the global financial crisis in 2009.

Women in full-time positions are bearing the brunt of the downturn, with the loss of 29,800 jobs in the last three months of the year.

The jobless rate has risen from 5.1 per cent since the beginning of last year, with the numbers out of work rising from 613,000 to 656,000.

The softening employment market, which is consistent with falling job advertisements and business confidence, has provided a first test of the national economic debate in the election year, with parliament due to resume in a fortnight.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, misogynists everywhere because AbbottAbbottAbbott, because shutup. And the more she says, the less people listen. Chickens roosting. Bewdiful.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 7:17 am
Tom, its a net loss of 5,500. The ABS is just as likely to adjust it out of existence next month. While the trend is there, you would be on stronger ground to quote this bit:

The share of the population that is either in work or looking for a job has fallen from 65.5 per cent to 65.1 per cent over the past year. Although that appears a small shift, it represents about 115,000 people leaving the labour force.

entropy

18 Jan 13 at 7:35 am
I missed this yesterday: There appears to be a split between the communist wing (Milne, Rhiannon etc) and the fruitcake environmentalist wing (SHY and Tassie wannabe Whish-Wilson) of the Greens over the Whitehaven stunt:

THE Australian Greens are split over a hoax that temporarily wiped $300 million off the value of Whitehaven Coal.

Greens leader Christine Milne has said the action was part a long and proud history of civil disobedience.

Her colleague Lee Rhiannon congratulated activist Jonathan Moylan, who issued a bogus press release purporting to be from the ANZ Bank and which said the bank had cancelled a $1.2 billion loan facility for Whitehaven’s Maules Creek project in northwest NSW.

But another Greens senator, Sarah Hanson-Young, says the stunt was not something she would encourage.

When asked whether she supported Mr Moylan’s action, she told Sky News today: “I wouldn’t be encouraging people to go willy-nilly and taking this type of action.

“I understand why it was taken, I understand the frustrations but don’t encourage others to do it.”

Senator Hanson-Young said political action in the past had helped create social change.

“This one obviously has caused a stir.”

Another Greens senator, Peter Whish-Wilson, said he would not have taken the protest action.

“And neither would I publicly congratulate an activist for taking that action,” he told The Australian Financial Review.

“I have a different view to Senator Rhiannon in that respect.”

Senator Whish-Wilson insisted he did not disagree with his leader’s comments, but said protests like Mr Moylan’s had costs and consequences.

H/T Bolt

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 7:42 am
‘PUBLIC servants will be given legal protection for the first time to dob in colleagues who waste taxpayers’ money.’

In theory, at least, the current APS whistleblower arrangements already provide this. In practice, however, the protections against victimmisation are so weak that only a very ‘courageous’ person would actually use them. Gillard’s proposals will only work if protection for whistleblowers against reprisals by ministers, managers and colleagues is very significantly strenghtened.

Des Deskperson

18 Jan 13 at 7:48 am
Mick at 12.04am:

Embarrassed? I wouldn’t waste that time on a second rate newsreader paid first rate money who simply did not do her homework and reverted to shrill, recalcitrant 14 year old schoolgirl when she realised she wasn’t getting her own way.

Remembering that we mustn’t know exactly how much Sales is being paid, it being a state secret and all. Every voter should be embarrassed, but not for Sales.

Tom,
McSporran is already trying out his explanation for softening employment – it’s all Newman’s fault for sacking Qld public servants. We’ll see more of this.

Keith

18 Jan 13 at 7:57 am
Keith, ah, yes. As if notified the Lying Slapper’s carrier pidgeon, m0nty had that talking point ready yesterday. Comical.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 8:10 am
There are no identifiable behaviours involved with being black (race); there are, however, with being gay (sexual orientation).

So what?

Two dudes having intercourse doesn’t affect you.

.

18 Jan 13 at 8:11 am
“I understand why it was taken, I understand the frustrations but don’t encourage others to do it.”

Senator Hanson-Young said political action in the past had helped create social change.

That is hardly a condemnation by crazy eyes.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 8:21 am
John Doyle (Tim Flannery’s Partner in Clime) has been filling in for Fran Kelly, and this morning gave the PM a real tongue lashing for twenty minutes or so. By that I mean you could feel the lave.
Someone could do an extended fisking of this segment; there’s enough material there for a whole Media Watch Dog column.

blogstrop

18 Jan 13 at 8:32 am
So what?

Two dudes having intercourse doesn’t affect you.

dot, you can be depressingly silly at times. The fact that it “doesn’t affect me” is neither here nor there. Guess what, people engaging in scat “doesn’t affect me” either. Nevertheless, I can tolerate it without approving it. This is how something can be legal and yet, arguably, immoral. Can you recognize this difference or must we all approve/ accept scat as well?

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 8:35 am
Two dudes having sex doesn’t affect you.

.

18 Jan 13 at 8:39 am
Quite, and as I said above, neither do two dudes engaging in scat. Are you suggesting that we have no grounds for disapproving of scat?

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 8:44 am
If you don’t like it and it doesn’t affect anyone else, don’t do it.

.

18 Jan 13 at 8:56 am
PUBLIC servants will be given legal protection for the first time to dob in colleagues who waste taxpayers’ money.

Would this piece of buffoonery constitute a waste of taxpayer’s money?
via Samizdata

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 8:57 am
That’s also a cheap shot and way beneath you.

Moral equivalence? What is this pomo shit?

A gay bigot (they exist, read some bumper stickers on cars near Bourke St Nth) could easily say they disapprove of sick straight people doing all kinds of sick fetishist shit, that once again, applies to a very low proportion of the subset.

“Oh of course I tolerate straight people (and they don’t affect me) and but obviously I don’t approve of them, just like a straight couple with a lolita/rape/urine type of fetish/fantasy.”

It’s just the blame change definition game for white men.

.

18 Jan 13 at 9:02 am
Richard Armitage chats with Kezza.

Pickles

18 Jan 13 at 9:33 am
If you don’t like it and it doesn’t affect anyone else, don’t do it.

Yes, and I was illustrating the difference between tolerating and approving.

A gay bigot (they exist, read some bumper stickers on cars near Bourke St Nth) could easily say they disapprove of sick straight people doing all kinds of sick fetishist shit, that once again, applies to a very low proportion of the subset.

For heaven’s sake, I didn’t mention scat as something only homosexuals might engage in, or alternatively, to prejudice their other engagements, which I thought was obvious since my first reference to that abhorrent practice was simply to “people” whatever their orientation.

That’s also a cheap shot and way beneath you.

Moral equivalence?

Bigot! More seriously, I wasn’t equating them. I was saying that one can tolerate while not approve of A and this didn’t mean one was a bigot. The example was used to wake you out of your dogmatic slumber.

What is this pomo shit?

It’s classical liberalism; you can tolerate without approving of conduct and opinions contrary to one’s own moral, philosophical, political or religious opinion.

“Oh of course I tolerate straight people (and they don’t affect me) and but obviously I don’t approve of them, just like a straight couple with a lolita/rape/urine type of fetish/fantasy.”

What a silly example. You need to take a deep breath. The right analogue here would be adulterers, and the like.

It’s just the blame change definition game for white men.

Speaking of pomo shit.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 9:37 am
Chris:

Singapore has a system where the health inspectors give the hawkers A, B, C ratings based on their inspections and the reports have to be prominently displayed. I don’t know if they pull their licence if they get too bad but it at least allows people to make a more informed choice wrt to balancing tasty vs hygienic food

Yes, Singapore has this and Malaysia has something similar. Both are absolutely brutal on this aspect of public health, yet it’s done very deliberately to preserve the street hawker culture. It came in becuase a small proportion of hawkers were making a hell of a lot of tourists ill, and this was damaging the tourist industry and devastating the street food hawker industry, which both countries view as a training ground for small businessmen.

The case of Malaysia was really interesting to watch. They came down on the hawkers like the fist of a war-god which really got their attention, they ragged them, bagged them and shagged them. The hawkers responded by organising themselves (I was told by teh governor of the province I was working in that this is what the provincial governments wanted to happen hence the tactics) and deaths from food poisoning at street hawker stalls just stopped. Amoebic dysentery is extremely dangerous and unbelievably unpleasant. Had it once, never again with luck. The provinces then backed off on the inspections to a background level and mostly it’s now self-watching. If a hawker screws the pooch, other hawkers will shop him to the local association just to avoid the grief of a blitz from the health inspectors.

They encourage things like cooking up a heap of karipap at home and hawking them, still piping hot, around people queued up for a ferry, for example. Try doing that here!

What really interested me was the government response at the federal level. As they built the north-south highway up the west coast, they built all these ‘Hentian Sebalah‘s’, roadside food court-hawker stalls, with parking, public toilets, prayer room etc. Here’s the one at Nilai. They provide the locals (especially local women) with business opportunities and large corporations (like McDonalds etc) are not permitted to operate in them at all. It’s brilliant. You can get these amazing local fruits (as in the plant only grows in that area and is often not domesticated) never available anywhere else. At the one at Sungai Slim they have a mango I have never seen anywhere but there. Long as your forearm, 4″ wide, 3″ thick, bright green when ripe, seed is whole-length like a thin piece of plywood with a golfball embedded in the middle, pale yellow and very tasty. You basically fillet it.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 9:42 am
Dot,

I’ve done some security work and I can tell you if more people took MDMA, they’d might turn into dribbling idiots in years to come, but they would be less likely to bash each other’s brains in.

Never had trouble with dudes on MDMA, apart from gushing with admiration and praise for no reason at all. If you’re working, the women are TOO friendly…however, if you’re not working…

I did some security work myself back when I was at uni.
A couple of the venues that I worked were over 28′s.
They were proverbially known as “grab a granny”, nowadays they would probably be called something to do with cougars.

This was in a time before ecstasy had become prevalent, but I have to tell you, as a 19 year old who was built like the proverbial brick outhouse, ecstasy was not required for the women to get TOO friendly at these venues.

We had more issues with the women than the blokes. Aggro drunken men were a cinch to deal with compared to the aggro drunken women.

Another venue that I worked at started to host rave parties. This was a totally different clientele to the over 28′s. A lot of drugs, barely any alcohol and almost no violence. Ironically, despite the relative lack of trouble, I was twice threatened with a handgun (by dealers it must be said).

Anyway, that is enough of my anecdotes from a life long ago. I had better stop now otherwise, God forbid, I will end up sounding like numbers. My anecdotes are however, true.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

18 Jan 13 at 9:42 am
Leigh chats with Richard

Pickles

18 Jan 13 at 9:47 am
LEIGH SALES: A final question, your name often comes up as a potential running mate for John McCain. Would you be interested if he offered?

RICHARD ARMITAGE: Nothing would doom his candidacy faster than to have a fellow that looks like me and such a non-politician like me as a candidate. It’s an absurd question. But I appreciate the question.

Pickles

18 Jan 13 at 9:48 am
While Abbott is off fighting fires, gillard sits at home knitting.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:01 am
The hawkers responded by organising themselves (I was told by teh governor of the province I was working in that this is what the provincial governments wanted to happen hence the tactics) and deaths from food poisoning at street hawker stalls just stopped

That is one of the huge boneses of travelling in so many places in Asia, it is now easy to get a bite to eat for a small cost, and tens of thousands of families get additional income.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 10:07 am
gillard sits at home knitting.

Why would the Oz even bother reporting this?

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 10:08 am
They hang on every word she sprouts like the rest of the sycophants.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:11 am
And here’s another bit of mindless trivia, also filed under ‘why did they think this was news?‘

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:15 am
And here’s another bit of mindless trivia, also filed under ‘why did they think this was news?‘

Wow, can we all play re-creating history? I’d like to ban immigration in the 50′s from Wales.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 10:31 am
The executive director of the Gun Owners of America is well named.
Only a prat would claim that a rifle is the sign of a free man.
A rifle is a weapon – the sign of a coward.
The vote is the sign of a free man.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 10:33 am
From Gab’s link. Gillard:

The truth is if you were starting again from a blank page … I don’t think you’d create the one (system of government) that we’ve got now with three tiers – local, state and federal

There was no blank page to begin with, numbnut. The states during the Constitutional conventions would never have negotiated their own dissolution. And local governments are not even mentioned in the Constitution; they are a creature of the states.

I think you would create a two-tier system with large regional councils which intersected with a federal government.

That is exactly what we got. The idea that large regional councils would have obviated local councils is nonsense. How many large regional councils would we require so as to avoid the need for local councils?

Honestly, this PM is a fool and an ignoramus.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 10:34 am
So Spuds, every military man with a rifle is a coward?

JC

18 Jan 13 at 10:36 am
SO every farmer with a rifle is a coward?

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:36 am
So a man uses a rifle to defend himself, his family, against a home invasion is a coward?

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:37 am
The vote is the sign of a free man.

Worked a treat in the USSR and its satellites.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 10:43 am
So Spuds, every military man with a rifle is a coward?

The sense in which Pratt uses it – that you have to possess a firearm to be regarded as free – is utter crap.
And this creep, who has the arrogance to say that Australians (like John Howard) have no business to advise the Yanks on gun control, had no problem in doing the same in Northern Ireland.
Not only is he a prat, he’s also a hypocrite.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 10:43 am
that you have to possess a firearm to be regarded as free

yes it is utter crap – your utter crap as that is not what he said. It’s good to see he makes you so emotional though. Hilarious.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:46 am
what he said.

Perhaps you can explain what he meant by “the rifle is the sign of a free man”.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 10:49 am
Here is another win of modern society:

According to some new research, all of our effort (men and women both!) to remain hairless down there has put crabs on the endangered species list. That’s right! Pubic lice is on the verge of extinction.

“Pubic grooming has led to a severe depletion of crab louse populations,” reports Ian F. Burgess, a Cambridge medical entomologist. “Add to that other aspects of body hair depilation, and you can see an environmental disaster in the making for this species.”

I’m sure the women who live with Jonathan Moylan are doing their bit to keep that species alive.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 10:49 am
That’s sad, Token. Another species on the verge of extinction due to anthropological interference. Really, humans are the scourge of wildlife.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:52 am
Perhaps you can explain what he meant by “the rifle is the sign of a free man”.

Choice, numbers, choice and the freedom to posses as laid out in the Constitution and the Second Amendment. But I understand why you would have difficulties understanding the concept as back in your old home country, the Soviets did not allow it’s citizens to be armed.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:55 am
Hahahahaha!!! The old commo coward is upset that a real man of principle wiped the floor with a child having a tanty, which is the symbol of the extreme left and the worst government in Australian history.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 10:55 am
THEY TOLD ME IF I VOTED FOR MITT ROMNEY, WASHINGTON WOULD BE INSENSITIVE TO RAPE VICTIMS. And they were right! “Police in Washington DC frequently fail to investigate reports of rape, and treat victims so dismissively at times, that they experience fresh trauma while the chances of the perpetrator being caught are undermined, according to a comprehensive report due out next week.”

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:56 am
There was no blank page to begin with, numbnut. The states during the Constitutional conventions would never have negotiated their own dissolution.

It takes a remarkable amount of ignorance to make such a stupid statement.
___________________

And this creep

Numbers, you really look petty indulging your envy and hatred of a man who is eloquent and successful.

It is clear are threatened by people who are more successful and better behaved than you. By being boorish you are underlining the insecurities which handicap you.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 10:57 am
“PUBLIC servants will be given legal protection for the first time to dob in colleagues who waste taxpayers’ money.

The Gillard Government is planning legislation to encourage whistleblowers to come forward with examples of serious financial waste.”

Aha… ahaha.. ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 10:59 am
That’s sad, Token. Another species on the verge of extinction due to anthropological interference. Really, humans are the scourge of wildlife.

Just think of it from their perspective Gab.

It is a natural survival instinct. If society is successful at eradicating one group of parasites, we may move from there onto another bigger group of parasites…

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:01 am
Two dudes having sex doesn’t affect you.

Well, it certainly affected hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed by the AIDS virus. Saying it doesn’t affect anyone is akin to opposing vaccinations. After all, that doesn’t affect anyone either, right?

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 11:04 am
lol. Comment on Bolt’s blog:

Accidents Happen-Young appears to have taken a week to gauge the reaction of the public before announcing that she is sitting on the fence. Well, at least it’s a change from her usual style of being the first to say something stupid.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:05 am
The sense in which Pratt uses it – that you have to possess a firearm to be regarded as free – is utter crap.

If a government tells peaceable citizens what they can and cannot do, then they are not free.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 11:08 am
The Gillard Government is planning legislation to encourage whistleblowers to come forward with examples of serious financial waste.”

Will that protection be extended to people who blow the whistle on people that “misplace” files in public record offices?

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:08 am
Hey, numbers, lookie here, more of those men you call cowards:

When Charles “Chuck” Hicks does the Martin Luther King Jr. Day peace and freedom walks Saturday, he’ll also be taking a step for what the National Rifle Association has dubbed “National Rifle Appreciation Day.” That’s because Hicks is the son of Robert Hicks, a prominent leader of the legendary Deacons for Defense and Justice — an organization of black men in Louisiana who used shotguns and rifles to repel attacks by white vigilantes during the 1960s.

“The Klan would drive through our neighborhood shooting at us, shooting into our homes,” recalled Hicks, 66, who grew up in Bogalusa, La., and has been a civil rights activist in the District for more than 35 years. “The black men in the community wouldn’t stand for it. You shoot at us, we shoot back at you. I’m convinced that without our guns, my family and many other black people would not be alive today.”

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:09 am
JULIA Gillard has again extolled the benefits of knitting as a means of escaping the many cares of high office.

LOL.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 11:09 am
Lordy, lordy, numbers, your “cowards” are just everywhere:

“I’m alive today because of the Second Amendment and the natural right to keep and bear arms,” declared John R. Salter Jr., one of the organizers of the famous non-violent sit-ins against segregated lunch counters in Jackson, Mississippi. Writing in 1994, Salter noted that he always “traveled armed” while working as a civil rights organizer in the Deep South. “Like a martyred friend of mine, NAACP staffer Medgar W. Evers, I, too, was on many Klan death lists and I, too, traveled armed: a .38 special Smith and Wesson revolver and a 44/40 Winchester carbine,” Salter wrote. “The knowledge that I had these weapons and was willing to use them kept enemies at bay.”

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/18/yes-guns-are-dangerous-but-they-also-sav

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:11 am
And this ~~creep~~ hypocrite

freedom to posses (sic)

That reference to the second amendment is about as relevant in 2013 as the old testament reference to avoiding pigskin (which would make any form of football a mortal sin).
Yet there are many who take this stuff seriously.
That’s what’s hilarious (if it didn’t result in a rate of gun homicides the highest in the developed world).
They’re a laughing stock…

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 11:13 am
One of the biggest marches of all is coming up in Washington…

Media working overtime getting ready to ignore the March for Life.

Because Obama passionately believes in the ‘right’ to kill children, he won’t be attending.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 11:13 am
numbers calls these people – Civil Rights fighters – a “laughing stock”:

In addition to bankrolling and assisting the investigation, Howard served as a sort of chief of security, escorting [Till’s mother Mamie] Bradley, Diggs, and other witnesses and supporters to and from court each day in a heavily armed caravan. In fact, the Beitos write, security at Howard’s residence “was so impregnable that journalists and politicians from a later era might have used the word ‘compound’ rather than ‘home’ to describe it.” To put it another way, guns were stashed everywhere, including a Thompson submachine gun at the foot of Howard’s bed and a pistol at his waist. Howard understood all too well the deep ties between white supremacy and gun control. The first gun control laws in American history arrived during Reconstruction, when the former Confederate states attempted to deny emancipated blacks the right to acquire property, make contracts, vote, freely assemble, and keep and bear arms.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:16 am
If a government tells peaceable citizens what they can and cannot do, then they are not free.

Two problems with this ongoing delusion -
1. The community is not made up of “peaceable” citizens and “others”. That belief has its origin in the comic book industry. Most adults have outgrown it.
2. “Peaceable” citizens are told what they can and cannot do all the time. Tried driving the wrong way down the M1 lately?

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 11:17 am
Why doesn’t Obama declare the White House a gun-free zone?

GO!

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 11:18 am
Alice has emailed asking why she has been banned. She hasn’t been, but the spam filter has taken a dislike to her – I have released those comments.

Sinclair Davidson

18 Jan 13 at 11:20 am
Meanwhile, back at the gun-free ranch:

“The White House argues that a clean hike is the only way to avoid a potential downgrade of the nation’s creditworthiness. If the GOP resists authorizing a hike in the limit, political instability will make creditors wary of further lending, raising the nation’s borrowing costs and destabilizing the global economic system. Perhaps they should pay a little more attention to what the big credit rating agencies are actually saying.”

Nothing says good credit risk like a commitment to unlimited increases in debt!

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:21 am
The spam filter is a misogynist!

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:25 am
Why doesn’t Obama declare the White House a gun-free zone?

Because the USA has always had a significant proportion of crazies.
Over there, they’re armed.
Violence is as American as apple pie.
And there are a sprinkling of crazies here (literally – on this site) who aspire to the same sad state of affairs.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 11:33 am
The spam filter is a misogynist!

Maybe it has taste. Then again Numbers keeps getting through.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:33 am
The spam filter is a misogynist!

The false negatives are annoying – but then I get to see all the crap that it does actually stop and am very thankful for it.

Sinclair Davidson

18 Jan 13 at 11:34 am
Tried driving the wrong way down the M1 lately?

That’s hardly the action of a peaceable citizen now is it?

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 11:41 am
Looks like voters don’t like it when lefties without any real argument have to stoop to calling people who legally own guns “creeps”, “freaks” and similar emotive terms:

According the latest Gallup survey, which was taken after the Sandy Hook murders and Wayne LaPierre’s press conference, the NRA, despite being demonized 24/7 in the media, enjoys a favorability rating of 54%. Today, according to Gallup, Obama’s approval rating sits at 53%.

Moreover, only 38% of those polled have an unfavorable opinion of the NRA. Obama’s disapproval rating sits three points higher at 41%.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:45 am
This distraction the Obama admin has created to exploit the death of children is leading to crazy decisions by unhinged people.

Seriously, we really need to have a serious look at the “creeps” and “freaks” who society trusts to look after children:

For the second time in less than four weeks, six-year old children have been suspended from a Maryland elementary school for fashioning their hands in the shape of gun.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:48 am
1. The community is not made up of “peaceable” citizens and “others”. That belief has its origin in the comic book industry. Most adults have outgrown it.

I don’t understand. Are you saying you are not a peaceable citizen? You could not be trusted with a gun? I will take your word for that.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 11:48 am
This is what happens in a society where people no longer scrutinise the knee-jerk legislation jambed through by legislators with agendas who are exploiting the tragic deaths of children:

EVERY COP IS A CRIMINAL: In haste, Cuomo and New York Legislature forgot to exempt police from draconian new gun law. If I were a member of the legislature, I’d oppose a fix just as a lesson . . . .

Thank goodness for the skeptics, eh?

Token

18 Jan 13 at 11:52 am
Numbers gunliar trolling is particularly low quality today.

Lift your game, son!

Eddystone

18 Jan 13 at 11:52 am
This was in a time before ecstasy had become prevalent, but I have to tell you, as a 19 year old who was built like the proverbial brick outhouse, ecstasy was not required for the women to get TOO friendly at these venues.

True. When I worked at the Beresford some Princess would tell me I was much nicer than her husband and she hated her mother in law…then I realised I should go to law school and be a divorce lawyer.

“Like numbers, but a true story”

That would be 99% of the population who aren’t pathological liars.

Sure DB, you “tolerate” gays. FFS give it up.

.

18 Jan 13 at 11:58 am
Why doesn’t Obama declare the White House a gun-free zone?

Because the USA has always had a significant proportion of crazies.

OK but the American left says gun-free zones are the answer.

So why doesn’t Obama declare the White House a gun-free zone?

GO!

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 11:59 am
How does the spam filter work? I only get into ‘moderation’ (the memory hole actually) if I type my name wrongly. I thought spam filter only worked on bots (by IP?) and on unwanted links (which type? designated ones?) or on flaming word signals (not too sure which).

I could ask Da Hairy Ape who would know and ‘tolerates and accepts’, then assists and remedies, my various ignorances, but he is at work.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jan 13 at 11:59 am
there are a sprinkling of crazies here

The people who post here are the middle class with real jobs in the real economy, not far left communist parasites who have sponged off the government their entire lives.

Isolated old extremists like you wouldn’t know middle Australia if it jumped up and bit you on the left ball.

Fruitcakes like you last came out of the workwork with Bill Hartley and Albert Langer during the Whitlam disaster.

You’ll soon be sent back to the ghetto of irrelevance. The middle class can no longer afford you. And they despise you and the rest of your cabal of irresponsible money-burning thieves.

Go and top yourself with Kero Boy. You’re a waste of food. Fuck off.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 12:00 pm
‘I tolerate gays’
‘I tolerate blacks’

Anyone who doesn’t realise this isn’t a good look needs to crawl out from under their rock.

.

18 Jan 13 at 12:01 pm
Thanks for that 2004 article, Numbers.

“I would argue that if people are armed it is a deterrent to criminals and terrorists.”

Life in South Armagh might’ve been a little less oppressive if the rahs had more to worry about than the triple six confidential line and the not so quick Quick Reaction Force.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 12:02 pm
Are you saying you are not a peaceable citizen?

Different question – are you, and will you always be – a “peaceable” citizen?
“Peaceable” incidentially, only lingers in common usuage in backwoods slang in the funny country.
It doesn’t travel well across the Pacific, to a country inhabited largely by pragmatic adults.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:02 pm
Don’t laugh at eccentrics with a love of their metal detectors.

Gold nugget worth £200,000 discovered in Australian bush.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 12:04 pm
So what you’re saying, Dot is that a tolerant society is evil. Hey, maybe we should therefore be more like an Islamic society where they do not tolerate gays, Christians, atheists etc.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 12:04 pm
“I would argue that if people are armed it is a deterrent to criminals and terrorists.”

Unless the criminals and terrorists are also armed.
Then it’s called civil war.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:04 pm
So what you’re saying, Dot is that a tolerant society is evil.

A “tolerant society” need not list specific groups of people it “tolerates”.

I’m against this fussy, obsessive, antedilivian attitude as much as I’m against being told/gang pressed to tolerate/embrace fucking luurve culture x, y and z.

A tolerant culture, would leave you the fuck alone.

.

18 Jan 13 at 12:08 pm
Unless the criminals and terrorists are also armed.
Then it’s called civil war.

What is it called if the criminals and terrorists are armed and all you have is a flower?

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 12:10 pm
Unless the criminals and terrorists are also armed.
Then it’s called civil war.

Numbers, we are not suprised you are avoiding responding to Gabs link @ 11:16am.

Does your blind loyalty to the state would mean you would be a supporter of Jim Crow laws and you would want those “criminals” disarmed?

Token

18 Jan 13 at 12:11 pm
That’s sad, Token. Another species on the verge of extinction due to anthropological interference. Really, humans are the scourge of wildlife.

lol Gab.

I have some Edwardian early porn film clips purchased in the very serious Museum of Sex in Paris. My goodness, in those days they did their bit providing cover for wildlife. Ecologically sustainable never-ever-clipped body hair everywhere at silent movie jerky frames per second. A whole new perspective on can’t see the wood for the trees.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jan 13 at 12:13 pm
Different question – are you, and will you always be – a “peaceable” citizen?

That’s an odd question. Yes, I will always be a peaceable citizen. I’m pretty certain about that. I have no desire to harm anyone who isn’t harming me.

It’s possible I suppose that I could have a stroke and get a lesion in some particular part of the brain and turn into a nutter, but the chances of that are pretty low.

“Peaceable” incidentially, only lingers in common usuage in backwoods slang in the funny country.
It doesn’t travel well across the Pacific, to a country inhabited largely by pragmatic adults.

Perhaps you could suggest a better term? Or if you think it’s not a very meaningful concept, perhaps you could explain why?

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 12:17 pm
Gabs link

is a complete red herring.
It is also indicative of the underlying culture of violence that is at the root of the problems in the USA.
Respond to these two simple questions -
Would you rather we had no restrictions on gun ownership in this country?
Would you be happy with a gun homicide rate in this country the same as the USA?
These issues (unlike the reference above) are relevant.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:20 pm
Would you rather we had no restrictions on gun ownership in this country?

Pity criminals, rapists and terrorists pay no never-mind to laws. But hey, let’s ensure that the majority of law-abiding citizens are disarmed and made to be fodder for the gun-toting criminals, rapists and terrorists. That’s the scenario you are espousing, numbers, you commie loon.

Hey, how about answering IT’s question:

What is it called if the criminals and terrorists are armed and all you have is a flower?

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 12:24 pm
A whole new perspective on can’t see the wood for the trees.

LOL.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 12:29 pm
A tolerant culture, would leave you the fuck alone.

I suspect that’s what most of us think, Dot: that sanctions and legal bans restricting others are repugnant, and so are hatreds.

Except for the Fisk Doctrine, natch.

The semantics of this argument, subtle differences between ‘tolerating’ and ‘tolerance’, and the partitioning of ‘acceptance’, all of this just muddies the waters of meaning and the argument becomes pointless. Boring too.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jan 13 at 12:32 pm
What is it called if the criminals and terrorists are armed and all you have is a flower?

The People’s Democratic Republic of …

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 12:36 pm
Numbers the Spanker: T

he executive director of the Gun Owners of America is well named.
Only a prat would claim that a rifle is the sign of a free man.
A rifle is a weapon – the sign of a coward.
The vote is the sign of a free man.

Hmm. What did Alexander Solzhenitsyn say about that sort of thing?

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?

Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria [Government limo] sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked.

The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

Hey, you worthless prat, Alexander Solzhenitsyn thinks you are a totalitarian-loving bucket of scum.

A rifle is indeed the sign of a free man.

He’s the one who makes sure that the vote remains of any value.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 12:37 pm
Oh those pesky state governments

JULIA Gillard reckons if Australia’s founding fathers had their time over they would have done away with the states,

Does she realise what Federation really was? In essence a melding of separate colonies separate countries if you will.

And done in the living memory of the American War Between the States.

Helen Armstrong

18 Jan 13 at 12:37 pm
What is it called if the criminals and terrorists are armed and all you have is a flower?

It’s called Australia in 2013, if you accept the stupid premise of the question.
Can’t be all bad, given that the gun homicide rate in that bastion of liberty, the USA, is 22 times ours.
You have a better idea?

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:44 pm
Would you rather we had no restrictions on gun ownership in this country?

Numbers, you are being dishonest when you try to set up strawman arguments instead of discussing reality.

There is not one juristiction in the USe that has “no restrictions on gun ownership”.

Therefore, this is not a realistic question. It is a childish game.

Using strawmen and throwing out absolute emotive statements highlights how poor and arbitary your arguments are.

In summary, you come here to demand obedience, not persuade.

Would you be happy with a gun homicide rate in this country the same as the USA?

As we do not have the long term effects of retrobate urban policies set up by the machine politicians in the Democratic party, we don’t have to deal with the large number of gun deaths that result from illegal weapons in the hands of criminals…or at least we didn’t before the ALP & Greens set up that industry to get organised criminals to illegally traffic in middle class people from the south asia & the middle east…

Token

18 Jan 13 at 12:44 pm
Hey, you worthless prat, Alexander Solzhenitsyn thinks you are a totalitarian-loving bucket of scum.

Solzhenistyn has never met me, so he wouldn’t know.
Here’s another Solzhenistyn quote -

Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:48 pm
lol hey, numbers, he who has the last word is not the winner.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 12:51 pm
As we do not have the long term effects of retrobate urban policies

Now that is a rolled gold red herring. Goodies and baddies again – your delusional binary world. All that is evil is the fault of the democrats – all that is noble the work of the Republicans.
I’m asking again – do you have a better idea?

we didn’t before the ALP & Greens set up that industry

If this were the case, there would have been a spike in gun homicides in this country since 2007.
Data please….

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 12:53 pm
Tim Blair makes a salient point:

The Greens are calling for room in the federal budget to help young artists make a living and support risk-taking art.

So they want a safety net for risk-takers. Makes sense in GreensWorld.

‘’I think that in Australia it’s the usual story where so many artists struggle to make a living and they’re trying to work two or three jobs in order to be able to keep a roof over their heads, while they pursue the love that they have for their art,’’ Senator Milne told Fairfax Media.

Artists are working three jobs? Sounds like the private sector is already providing all the funding these creative types require.

Meanwhile, the loopy Greens’ answer is just throw “free” money at the “artists”, money off the backs of people who actually work and pay taxes.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 1:01 pm
Numbers the Totalitarian bucket of scum, in a brief flash of honesty about himself: Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.

because complete disarmament of the law-abiding empowers two, and onl;y two, groups of people. The first are the criminals and in particular the violent criminals. The evil british social experiment in disarming teh populace has proven this beyond reasonable doubt.

The second are the state-power totalitarians and fascists like Numbers himself.

Where this blithering idiot reveals the true depths of his ignorance is in the assumptions underlying his utopian statist worldview.

Careful examination of his comments shows his deep disdain for individual liberty, as well as the following hidden assumptions:
1. The government is always good
2. The government only has your best interests in mind.
3. The government knows what’s best.
4. The more power government has, the better.
5. The bigger the government is, the better.
6. None of the above can possibly change over time.

Really?

German, Russian, Spanish, Argentinian, Cuban, Japanese, Greek and even British history last century shows what a pitiful set of lies Numbers’ pathetic delusions really are.

he also remains utterly, totally ignorant of the USA outside his own bigotry and innate racism. The USA is currently 50 separate countries which are starting to have a serious problem with the agreed Federal arrangement. it is a nation formed on revolutionary principles, where revolution is not only seen as A Very Good Thing, but as such a good thing that it’s the law of the land.

The US Constitution is the lodestone of a revolutionary people. In itself, it is a vastly more revolutionary document (and they a far more revolutionary people) than the hidebound reactionaries like marx, lenin, Engels, Hitler and mao.

Numbers the racist bigot understands precisely nothing of this. Not one iota.

That’s what bigots do. They prefer delusion to reality, they promote violence, and above all else, they lie.

Especially to themselves.

Just as Numbers the racist bigot does, and how clearly the coward proves that on this blog every time he posts.

he’s not even worth contempt, he’s really too pitiable for that.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 1:11 pm
Pretty warm in Sydney’s west today… imagine how bad it would be if we didn’t have the carbon tax?!

Fleeced

18 Jan 13 at 1:16 pm
I’ve been shitty for the past 3 odd weeks. I had to send in my tax cheque for the Dec quarter and the end of year is always larger.

The ATO though did a revision and has sent me back the full amount and then some because of an error in my taxes from 3 + years ago.

I win.

No moocher funding by me for the period and as a gentlemanly gesture I’ll leave leftwing idiots alone for 6.3 hours… (scientific calculation)

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:16 pm
Getting soft in your old age, JC. Harden up.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 1:18 pm
Meanwhile, the loopy Greens’ answer is just throw “free” money at the “artists”, money off the backs of people who actually work and pay taxes.

No, they aren’t loopy. They are absolutely fucking evil to the toe nails. They know what they’re doing.

They are trying to funnel money to their constituencies. That’s all.

Fisk Doctrine.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:18 pm
you think 6.3 hours is too much Gab. I did check the calculations though. The science is settled on this one.

However if you consider 6.3 hours is far too long, I’m happy to shorten it though.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:20 pm
JC,

Come back in – Numbers is showing signs of frothing at the mouth about guns.

Mike

Mike of Marion

18 Jan 13 at 1:24 pm
the loopy Greens’ answer is just throw “free” money at the “artists”, money off the backs of people who actually work and pay taxes.

When Shane Wand abandoned the surplus, he dogwhistled every Green (and Labor) MP to beat a path to his door with a blackmail list of demands that he now has no rationale to deny. There’s only one 2013 mantra for the kleptocracy: whatever it takes. When the forensic accounting is finally done, I believe we’ll find a record that will never be broken in peacetime — a deficit of $80 billion or more.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 1:24 pm
What a week! First Jodie Foster admits to being a lesbian and now Lance Armstrong admits to doping!

Next thing you know Swanny will admit his budget is going to be short a bob or two.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 1:25 pm
he’s not even worth contempt, he’s really too pitiable for that.

Worth 363 words! You do have your knickers in a knot.
1. The ~~government~~ people is are always good
2. The ~~government only has~~ people only have ~~your~~ their best interests in mind.
3. The ~~government knows~~ people know what’s best.
4. The more power ~~government has~~ the people have, the better.
5. The ~~bigger~~ smaller the government is, the better.
6. None of the above can possibly change over time.
FIFY
Of course, the Glibertarians seek to disenfranchise the population here to the same level (about 60%) as the USA, so the people’s wishes become irrelevant.

hidebound reactionaries like marx, lenin, Engels, Hitler and mao.

Show me any post where I’ve expressed admiration for any of these.
It’s all in your mind.
Go away and play with your ~~weapons~~ toys.

they promote violence

Show me where I’ve promoted violence.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 1:26 pm
yes, JC. needs to be shortened by 6.3 hours. Don’t make me have to explain it you again!

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 1:26 pm
Mike

Spuds, Fatboy, Chris, Stepford, Braggs, Greys, Kero boy, grreenslime aren’t exempted. The 6.3 hour exemption only applies to anyone else.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:29 pm
Michael Smith gives Laura Tingle a kicking:

Now, keep all that in mind while you check out the piece of commentary from the AFR’s Laura Tingle. Laura does a wonderful job of promoting the Gillard line.

It has been suggested in the past that Ms Gillard organised the conveyancing of the property – and therefore would have known about the source of funds to purchase it – despite a conveyancing file making it clear that conveyancing was handled by a paralegal in another part of the law firm.

The file makes it clear? Laura! This letter from the Managing Director of Slater and Gordon says Gillard acted directly in the conveyance – and I have confirmed it independently with another partner at Slater and Gordon at the time. She did it.

But fancy quoting Bruce Wilson who says that he has powers to reveal what Ms Gillard knew. He is one of the crooks! He was her illicit lover, the beneficiary of free illegal work done by his co-offender.

Which brings me to the pin it all on Ralph push. I don’t think that’s very smart. The harder you try to say Ralph was a crook, the worse it looks for his co-offenders. 3 people were involved in the Kerr Street purchase. One lent his name – two went to the auction. One knocked up a Power of Attorney and witnessed it with her solicitor’s stamp. One wrote out a few cheques. One organised a mortgage. Got the picture?

There’s a police investigation now. Proper statements from relevant witnesses are being taken. It’s probably time for a bit of clear-eyed, painful analysis. Our Prime Minister is in the frame for some very serious offences. And it’s about time we started to tell the truth about it.

Bill the Greek is returning from Greece for an interview with the investigating police- it’ll be interesting to see whether Gillard’s “Big fat Greek bullshit artist” dishes the dirt or covers for the mendacious Messalinist.

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 1:31 pm
Bill the Greek is returning from Greece for an interview with the investigating police- it’ll be interesting to see whether Gillard’s “Big fat Greek bullshit artist” dishes the dirt or covers for the mendacious Messalinist.

Follow the money. Is Phil the Greek living in Greece on an Australian disability pension?

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:34 pm
Is Phil the Greek living in Greece on an Australian disability pension?

As far as I know, JC, he’s living in Buck House with one Betty Windsor…

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 1:40 pm
“Big ~~fat~~ Greek bullshit artist”

Apparently, Bill was none too pleased to have been described as above.

Anyone here need a new front fence?

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 1:43 pm
lol

Rabz, how did she refer to the greek dude doing her renos? Wasn’t it Phil the Greek or something else.

That phil, the one you’re referring to has been on a pension all his life, but not an Australian one.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:45 pm
I’d love to know what he did to her fence, because that’s what she was whining about in her exit interview with Slaters…. how he fucked up her front fence.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:46 pm
That’s Bill the Greek, Squire!

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 1:47 pm
Bill…phil what’s the difference?

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:50 pm
Or to confer his full honorific:

Bill the Greek, the big Greek bullshit artist.

Front fences straight to you, anywhere, any time.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 1:51 pm
Bill…phil what’s the difference?

Would Phil the tranny be happy about being referred to as Bill the tranny?

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 1:52 pm
Would Phil the tranny be happy about being referred to as Bill the tranny?

\

Fair point.

Phil the trannie hasn’t tried to jump the barricade in ages. I’m wondering what happened to him.
He probably had an olive oil overload and exploded.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 1:54 pm
Phil the Greek – Prince Philip.

kae

18 Jan 13 at 1:54 pm
Phillip?
Whatever.

kae

18 Jan 13 at 1:55 pm
No, they aren’t loopy. They are absolutely fucking evil to the toe nails. They know what they’re doing.

They are trying to funnel money to their constituencies. That’s all.

You are so unfair, and you cheat yourself. I used to hang around with a lot of the green crowd and yes there are socialist infiltrators, but most of the greens are true believers. If you can explain to them how they have been misled then they will turn against their socialist manipulators.

I knew a guy who worked chemical engineering, bringing modern Western technology into Eastern Europe just as the iron curtain was coming down. He told the story about how as he was packing up to leave town after a job well done, there were rows of people sitting in the streets looking up. They had never seen the sun before, never seen a blue sky. Most of them were now out of work, because the new plant only needed a quarter of the workers of the old plant, but the chemical haze was clearing for the first time in a generation and a new day was dawning on those people.

Funny old world.

What I’m saying is that socialism is not and has never been and never will be a friend of the environment. There’s a wedge in the green movement a mile wide, just waiting to happen, and if you don’t exploit that, you are letting your own side down.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 1:58 pm
Bill…phil what’s the difference?

It’s all Greek to me.

(Well, someone had to say it).

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 2:08 pm
Numbers, four minutes typing and you think I am upset?

Dude.

You have to do something about your delusions.

If you actually believed your counter-points, you would not be saying what you say. Therefore, it’s just another lie – this time to yourself.

But lying (especially to themselves) is what racist bigots like you do. So once again you have simply reinforced that point about what you are.

And I keep telling you, I am not a libertarian or a conservative.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 2:11 pm
Mark, I have seen you say

I am not a libertarian or a conservative.

before.
If you were able to categorise your philosophy, how would you?
Genuine question.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

18 Jan 13 at 2:16 pm
Dude.

Wrong side of the Pacific for that.

And I keep telling you, I am not a libertarian or a conservative.

Nor are you someone with any respect for your fellow man. You must have a very angry existence.
You have developed an obsession about my posts which bear no resemblance to reality. It matches your unhealthy obsession with weapons designed to kill.
Get help.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 2:19 pm
Get help.

Get fucked.

Huckleberry Chunkwot

18 Jan 13 at 2:21 pm
So Tel, you would have us believe that the greens are useful idiots for socialists to manipulate.

Do you see a new groundswell of true greens (as opposed to red greens) or is it that they are too unorganized to do this as evidenced by their take over by the socialists in the first place?

And if we were to ‘help’ or exploit this potential, what benefit would it have for us? What is the payoff? At present we have less than 10% of the voters controlling 100% of the environment. How do we weed out the reds from the greens and is it worth it? I am still in favor of total annihilation and let god sort them out.

As a landowner I have had a total gutsful of green regulation – of this idea of ‘stakeholders’ that someone can influence what I do without any skin in the game.

Their regulations have no effect on their hip pocket and they are not required to compensate for loss or erosion of such property rights. In effect it is transfer of rights/investment to the government by stealth of green tape with all of the risk lodging with the land owner.

Helen Armstrong

18 Jan 13 at 2:25 pm
You have developed an obsession about my posts which bear no resemblance to reality. It matches your unhealthy obsession with weapons designed to kill.

Here’s one to contemplate, spuds. I don’t like you. I think you’re a gas bagging twit. I also don’t own a gun nor intend to in the near or far future.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 2:27 pm
I’d love to know what he did to her fence, because that’s what she was whining about in her exit interview with Slaters…. how he fucked up her front fence.

The brick fence (and the pickets added after gillard complained) remain to this day

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 2:32 pm
Why the leftist newspapers are going bust.

Mangan’s blog reports, NYTimes does a feature piece on the North Dakota oil boom and of course doesn’t like it much.

Read on why….

American white guys getting good work isn’t something the Times likes much.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 2:36 pm
Of course, when the Icecapades moves to hades I’ll take advice from a racist bigot such as your contempitible self, numbers.

Nor are you someone with any respect for your fellow man.

Oh, I have plenty of respect for my fellow men, and even more for women.

It’s just that you are not a man.

You’ve made this point repeatedly about yourself.

You must have a very angry existence.

left-wing projection is so obvious. Why on Earth would I be angry? Wonderful wife and extended family, children of whom I am very proud, good job I enjoy, nice place to live, plenty of travel, fishing’s good, PhD research’s fascinating, health’s fine, comfortable in my own skin, happy in my relationship with God and I am an Imperialist living in a country which practises Imperialism in a fine bipartisan manner. I am as happy as a clam.

You, on the other hand… just why do you troll websites, again?

You have developed an obsession about my posts which bear no resemblance to reality.

Ah, the last refuge of the left-wing moral coward (but I repeat myself). You are a troll. I enjoy trollburning as I find it entertaining. Why should I not amuse myself at your expense?

It matches your unhealthy obsession with weapons designed to kill.

Ah, back to your obsession. You do not like my sport or target shooting, or that I am a conservation hunter, or that I enjoy restoring old historic firearms.

And you, being a totalitarian, racist and bigot, want to ban all of these because you don’t like them. You want to punish me and deprive me of legal things and legal freedoms I enjoy. How does this stance not make you a purse-lipped wowser and wannabe self-appointed Gestapo member, you racist bigot?

Dry your eyes, Princess, and I’ll call the waaahmbualnce for you.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 2:37 pm
How weird is that all these people are upset that Armstrong took drugs?

How the fuck does that affect their pointless little lives?

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 2:38 pm
And you, being a totalitarian, racist and bigot, want to ban all of these because you don’t like them

In this country, they are already banned.

You want to punish me and deprive me of legal things and legal freedoms I enjoy.

You entertain the delusion that we’d be better off with the American model.
You want to deprive me (and all other Australians) of the far superior quality of life and security we enjoy because we have a sane gun policy.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 2:42 pm
As always, the lefties hate whitey making more money than them.

What’s the problem with North Dakota’s oil boom, pace the NY Times? Steve Sailer nailed it, I think, because these are just the jobs Americans will do. Those going to work up there will not be indoctrinated into the system, and they will not be brainwashed in college. Besides, they’re all a bunch of blue-collar white guys, and therefore automatically belong to the class enemy.

You’d think that the liberal media would find something good to say not only about lots of men making lots of money, but the fact that these men are helping to make it a real possibility that the U.S. might actually become an oil exporter in the coming years. After the decades-long weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over oil imports, this would seem to be a positive development all round. But you would be wrong.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 2:43 pm
How weird is that all these people are upset that Armstrong took drugs?

How the fuck does that affect their pointless little lives?

ABC Online actually ran “live coverage” of the Oprah interview this morning.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 2:45 pm
I dunno, Mk50 maybe give it a rest? Maybe not? I do know this, numbers is trolling and not here to discuss anything, just rant and blast away at anyone with a differing opinion. And he always, always has to have the final say becuase he then thinks that means he’s won…something.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 2:46 pm
And you, being a totalitarian, racist and bigot, want to ban all of these because you don’t like them

In this country, they are already banned.

But you really are a totalitarian though. That’s something we can all agree about.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 2:49 pm
The sort of guns I enjoy shooting and collecting are most certainly not ‘banned’ in Australia. See what Queensland Police Service weapons licensing have to say about that, eh?

Should I wish to, it is perfectly legal for me to own armoured fighting vehicles, artillery and machine guns here in Australia. Plenty of people do (google ‘theatrical armourer’ and ‘firearms collector’). They are not my area of interest.

And I have been waiting for you to reference that site. You DO know it’s one single barking-mad nutter and a couple of his mates, don’t you?

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 2:50 pm
Each to his own and all.. But you have got to be fucking kidding me…

Bill Clinton named ‘Father of the Year’

leftists are turning this place upside down.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 2:53 pm
I think a new version of the Anglo-Saxon Oath really is required concerning the greenfilth and the left.

Concerning Greenfilth and the left, I will to my principles be true and faithful, and shun all which they love and love all which they shun.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 2:55 pm
On other award news Jeffrey Dahmer earns title of gastronome of the year posthumously.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 2:56 pm
JC, lots of bastards in the USA might concur with the award (boom-tish)

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 2:56 pm
Get help.

For those of you who missed it, the homophobic bigot who has has a list of “issues” as long as John Holme’s member who endlessly whines about of a bit of time he spent 30+ year ago in the “Nashos”, is providing psycological advice.

Stick around for his grooming tips?

Token

18 Jan 13 at 2:58 pm
Stick around for his grooming tips?

Beard Lice Removal , The Easy Way.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:01 pm
Just so people understand why drooling racist bigots like Numbers support violence when they call for gun bans, here’s what happened in Washington after the gun ban there:

Former D.C. criminal prosecutor Jeffrey Scott explains why draconian gun-control laws don’t work, citing, as an example, [Washington].

The gun ban had an unintended effect: It emboldened criminals because they knew that law-abiding District residents were unarmed and powerless to defend themselves. Violent crime increased after the law was enacted, with homicides rising to 369 in 1988, from 188 in 1976 when the ban started. By 1993, annual homicides had reached 454.

Criminals are, above all else, opportunists. They like easy pickings, and the more defenseless the population is, the broader their scope for action.

Numbers is a merchant of death.

(From Paco)

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 3:04 pm
‘I tolerate gays’
‘I tolerate blacks’

Anyone who doesn’t realise this isn’t a good look needs to crawl out from under their rock.

Anyone who believes that ‘being black’ is the same as ‘being gay’ has had one too many Cosmopolitans.

A tolerant culture, would leave you the fuck alone.

And how does allowing people with different conceptions of the good life who might disapprove of types of conduct engaged by their fellow-citizens who nevertheless tolerate this conduct not achieve ‘leav[ing] you the fuck alone’?

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 3:37 pm
Numbers is a merchant of death.

Advocating the maintenance of a set of laws that provides a gun homicide rate one twentieth of that in the land of the gun makes me a merchant of death?
You’re the one advocating slaughter.
900 Americans have been killed by firearms since Sandy Hook. And you claim their laws are better?
You’re the merchant of death.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 3:42 pm
Dover

Homer has a blog now. Feel free to post comments there.

I just have.

jc17 January 2013 20:37

Homer

WTF are you doing with a Blog? It’s like giving a kid a grenade launcher for Xmas.

jc17 January 2013 20:40

You idiot Homer. You should be apologizing to the world for the stuff you’ve posted at other blogs … like Skanke ho and the Nazis weren’t as bad as made out.

Talk about absolute temerity and insolence.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:42 pm
I’ll try and get around to it soon for a once over, JC, but like sfb’s blog, I make it a rule never to visit again.

dover_beach

18 Jan 13 at 3:47 pm
Faggot Shot @ 3.04pm.
At least numbers sticks mainly to his game.
You however are evermore becoming the know all (know nothing) pain to any reasonable brain.
If in fact you were ever in the Navy it’s becomes more apparent each day of observing your so superior diatribe that you would have tried to be a pain in the arse to quite a number of naval personnel.
Smith may well be the worst Defence Minister we’ve ever had but if his stupid inquiry shows you up well and good.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 3:47 pm
Homer has a blog now.

oooh, I do so hope Graham posts there too.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 3:48 pm
Each to his own and all.. But you have got to be fucking kidding me…

Bill Clinton named ‘Father of the Year’

Well he does spend his days yelling “Who’s your Daddy?!” to young girls all across the country.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 3:49 pm
I’ll try and get around to it soon for a once over, JC, but like sfb’s blog, I make it a rule never to visit again.

Don’t read the thing. He’s as stupid and incoherent as he always is.

Just leave him a comment or two. He’d love to hear from you, especially since you created a new English word in his honor. “Toozing”

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:50 pm
Gab

The moron has made it relatively hard to comment, which of course is no surprise after all the intellectual destruction he’s caused around the traps.

The idiot is the equivalent of an IED for blogs.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:53 pm
Man, I get angry just thinking about him.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:54 pm
Hey Numbers,
Did you notice a post from 1735103 recently you musta known him.( same intake).
What about rocketing Faggott Shot about running away from the little tickle to the L1A1.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 3:55 pm
Advocating the maintenance of a set of laws that provides a gun homicide rate one twentieth of that in the land of the gun

That’s really dodgy reasoning. You can’t just pull out a single data point and draw a conclusion from that.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 3:59 pm
Homer did an around the traps post..

He lists this as recommended.

Grog’s Gamut looks at climate change and productivity. Read the drum article as well.

Lol…A generational APSer talks about productivity and how climate change has impacted it.

You cannot make this shit up even to be humorous.

Hit the link and the moron has fucked it up. It’s the wrong link. How surprising.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 3:59 pm
Number, numbers, numbers…

Advocating the maintenance of a set of laws that provides a gun homicide rate one twentieth of that in the land of the gun makes me a merchant of death?

Yet this is not what youa re advocating, is it? So this is your usual trollish squalling followed by a bait and switch.

You’re the one advocating slaughter.

Well of course, that’s what should happen to feral introduced pests species. I already said I was a conservation hunter.

900 Americans have been killed by firearms since Sandy Hook.

Proof? Breakup of how many were criminals killed by other criminals? How many were suicides?

Can you, just once, try for some non-trollish nuance?

And you claim their laws are better?

Don’t think I have ever claimed that at all, I do claim they are different, and that the USA is a different country with a different history. You’ve claimed their laws are inferior to ours, yet you seem to base that purely on anti-American bigotry.

(Hi, Bird@1547, nice to see you! Come over for another thrashing from the Cat’s denizens, have you?)

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 4:03 pm
You cannot make this shit up even to be humorous.

Hit the link and the moron has fucked it up. It’s the wrong link. How surprising.

lol. The Calamity Jane of the interwebs.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 4:04 pm
Just to throw my $0.03 (adjusted due to the Carbon Tax) on the definition of assault rifles, it was drummed into me by my weapons instructors when I did my basic training that the L1A1 SLR was a BATTLE rifle, as was the Lee-Enfield of WW1.

Also, to further confuse the Digital One about the meaning of “assault weapons” (particularly in light of his

“The expert gun wanker who knows everything believes an SLR is not an assault weapon.
He can tell that to the platoon commander who asked us to assault through a bunker system in April 1970. Most of us were carrying SLRs…“

comment), I once participated in manuevers where (as infantry) we supported a combined arms assault on a target..

Does that mean that the Leopard tanks that participated are also “assault weapons” under Digital’s definition as transposed from his comment?

Or perhaps the Digital One (despite his vast teaching experience, and many years of service as a school principal… what was it again? 17? 19? 16? it keeps changing..) is confused by the meaning of assault when used in terms of a military strategy of attacking an enemy position as opposed to the sub-classification of military weapons that are smaller, lighter, and therefore easier to handle by troops in a confined space?

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 4:06 pm
“base that purely on anti-American bigotry”
No – based on data.
“criminals killed by other criminals”
So they don’t count?
Goodies and baddies again…….
@JimD
The sequence indicates a Qld Nasho, but The nominal roll shows no such digger.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 4:14 pm
@Brian of Moorabbin
Perhaps if you had spent some time on the two-way range, as opposed to manouvres, you would have developed a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons.
Funny thing about whatever you want to call an AK47 or a Bushmaster, they are marketed on the basis of their resemblance to the military equivalent.
The marketing of these weapons reveals the neandethal mindset of those who would aspire to own them, irrespective of whether they are full auto or semi-auto.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 4:22 pm
Countries by gun-related deaths

Homicides Suicides Unintentional Undetermined Year

El Salvador
50.36 50.36 NA NA NA 2009 Source unverified, included for general comparison

USA 10.2 3.6 6.3 0.2 0.1 2010 Source: CDC Study

Australia 1.05 0.09 0.79 0.02 0.15 2008 UNODC Global stats

Numbers point does not stand up at all once you look into it a little.

Interestingly, when you then remove the horrible firearms death rates in the welfare and ‘Great Society’ ruined US Black community, the rates for the rest of the US population (Asian, White, Latino) drop to much closer to Australian style levels.

Hardly the land of carnage our pet anti-American bigot fantasises about.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 4:26 pm
testing

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 4:26 pm
testing again

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 4:27 pm
You passed, Alice, you passed.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 4:33 pm
@Digital One

I don’t recall making any specific observations about the relative merits of the weapons concerned, nor offering any opinion about whether or not a ban on such weapons is meritted or not..

..and yet you attempt to insult me with an ad-hom attack on the assumption that I support the sale and ownership of such weapons based on what you perceive as a mis-spelling?

Pity that the Dictionary supports my spelling of the word, whereas yours in not found….

Obviously not an English teacher, eh?

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 4:34 pm
Yes Alice, we can see you.

Sinc already pointed out that you’d been caught in the spam filter, but he had fixed it for you…

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 4:34 pm
Yesterday it was Honduras – today it ‘s El Salvador. I’m surprised you’re not including Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan.
And your figures for the USA (which are dodgy to say the least) show a homicide rate ten times ours.
The neat little paternalistic reference to African Americans is revealing – and you call me “racist”.
Own goal……

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 4:36 pm
Numbers:

Perhaps if you had spent some time on the two-way range, as opposed to manouvres

Fallacy in logic; argumentum ad verecundiam

you would have developed a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons.

fallacy in logic: argumentum ad captandum it’s also non sequitur

Funny thing about whatever you want to call an AK47 or a Bushmaster, they are marketed on the basis of their resemblance to the military equivalent.

Another one, the if-then fallacy of affirming the consequent.

The marketing of these weapons reveals the neandethal mindset of those who would aspire to own them, irrespective of whether they are full auto or semi-auto

yay! A post hoc, ergo propter hoc I love these ones.

Your ‘argument’ is entirely a paralogism built of readily identifiable fallacies.

Your education really was fifth-rate, wasn’t it?

May I recommend this course to you?

I hear it really is excellent, perfect for even semi-literates like your good self.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 4:39 pm
Numbers, check out the graph on this page.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/ezra-kleins-facts-about-guns-tell-slanted-story/?singlepage=true

More guns, less murders.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 4:43 pm
@mk50
You must have been a sailor once. The last time I was subjected to such sanctimonious claptrap was from a matelot who’d been caught nicking our gear on the “Sydney”. He also indulged in paralysis by analysis in an attempt to distract from the matter at hand.
At least he wasn’t obviously dismissive and paternalistic in his attitude to those of a different race – which was fortunate, as my section commander was West Indian.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 4:48 pm
Yesterday it was Honduras – today it ‘s El Salvador. I’m surprised you’re not including Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan.

There are so many more socialist paradises where governments do not respect property rights and corruption is rampant to use as examples.

Such countries are really big at demanding the people follow the rules, where as like our PM when she was working at S&G for the AWU, the ruling class do not believe they have to follow the same laws.

Oh yes, your blind loyalty to the Labour Party means you will never speak out about corrpution by the officials in the party you serve.

Token

18 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
You passed, Alice, you passed.

Not yet – still getting stuck in the filter.

Sinclair Davidson

18 Jan 13 at 4:49 pm
Numbers, what on Earth are you gibbering about? There are innumerable studies on how Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ welfare/big government system destroyed the well-respected (even in that era) black communities in the USA (and especially the ‘Yankee Black Communities’ of the abolitionist non-slave north-eastern states).

For one woman’s experience in lifting herself from the poverty, despair and destruction of the family caused by Johnson’s welfare traps, read Uncle Sam’s Plantation: How Big Government Enslaves America’s Poor and What We Can Do About It.

Amazing and admirable woman; thought-provoking book.

You might also read the works of one of my personal heroes. You can start with his autobiography: Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave

You really need to get into education, Numbers. You seem to lack any at all.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 4:55 pm
Interesting that Number chose to respond to Mk50′s post, but not mine where he attacked me on an incorrect assumption based on what he perceived to be a mis-spelling (despite my spelling of the word ‘maneuvers‘ being listed in the Dictionary, whereas his version, ‘manouvres‘ is not found)…

I guess, at least in DigitalLand, “sorry” really is the hardest word to say…

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 4:56 pm
@Dangph
The most interesting aspects of your link are these -
The point made that the USA is one of the most violent societies in the world. Introducing more weapons into that setting is akin to throwing fuel on a fire.
The other point is the refusal to count suicide by guns in the data. There is a strong correlation between rates of gun ownership and suicide rates worldwide. The USA is no exception.
More guns = equals more gun deaths from the full range of causes (suicide; mishandling; accident) if other factors don’t change.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 4:57 pm
There are no flies on the Washington Post:

Gun control debate may be driving higher sales.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 4:58 pm
hahahahahahaaa..

Gab, he did it again, like you said he would.

a matelot who’d been caught nicking our gear on the “Sydney”.

Arrgh, Vietnam tales that just happen to support what I say me hearties, arrgh!

Lord, you are funny, it’s pavlovian, isn’t it?

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 4:59 pm
If nothing else, he’s predictable, Mk50.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 5:01 pm
Former D.C. criminal prosecutor Jeffrey Scott explains why draconian gun-control laws don’t work, citing, as an example, [Washington].

The gun ban had an unintended effect: It emboldened criminals because they knew that law-abiding District residents were unarmed and powerless to defend themselves. Violent crime increased after the law was enacted, with homicides rising to 369 in 1988, from 188 in 1976 when the ban started. By 1993, annual homicides had reached 454.

Criminals are, above all else, opportunists. They like easy pickings, and the more defenseless the population is, the broader their scope for action.

I’ve not seen any of the hoplophobes comment on this, Mk. Wonder why.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 5:03 pm
@Brian of Moorabbin
I didn’t respond to your obsession about spelling because it wasn’t relevant to any point made about assault weapons.
Let me spell it out for you – it doesn’t matter what you call these things – they’re bloody dangerous – they’re designed to kill people – and they have no place in the hands of civilians in civilised countries.
The military has the right attitude – they’re locked up in armouries – the ammunition is stored securely and separately – and you’re on a charge if you fire a weapon without authorisation.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 5:04 pm
Numbers, you were suggesting that there is a causal link between the number of guns and the homicide rate. Are you backing down from that position now?

There is a strong correlation between rates of gun ownership and suicide rates worldwide.

Now you are trying to move the goal posts. And you didn’t provide any evidence for that assertion.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 5:08 pm
Number the racist bigot:

The point made that the USA is one of the most violent societies in the world.

An absolute and utter lie.

The Australian Institute of Criminology does not agree with you.

Eurostat statistics also do not agree with you.

Neither do FBI stats.

But I know, I know, a bloke in Vietnam told you, just before you were buggered to within an inch of your life by drug-crazed, gun-totin’, chaw-chewin’ gay American kodiak bears being used by the 1011th Airborne secret sky-pirates on their way to pleasure Ho Chi Minh to death with bearlike lovin’. Right?

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 5:12 pm
@mk50
References to my experiences on the “Sydney” are no more or less relevant to this discussion than your tic (blaming any negative outcome for just about everything on progressive policies).
The difference is that I’ve lived the reality, whereas the source of your obsession is your fevered imagination.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 5:12 pm
@Mk50
Hilarious.
You’d better talk to Dangph – it was his link that the quote comes from.
Another own goal……

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 5:17 pm
Canberra Cat Collective convenes in 10 mins. And not a moment too soon!

Skuter

18 Jan 13 at 5:17 pm
Tax my violent video games and you’ll see some violence alright. Idiots, why don’t they go after all the Hollywood heroes that were glorifying violence long before violent video games? So this GOP person wants to regulate violent video games but not guns. The hypocrisy is wonderful.

Following the Sandy Hook tragedy, the National Rifle Association wasted no time implicating the video game industry, calling it a “callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.”

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/gaming/video-game-experts-call-for-brave-dialogue-after-us-proposes-violent-video-game-tax/story-e6frfrt9-1226556529046#ixzz2IJ0TEuzj

John H.

18 Jan 13 at 5:21 pm
Rack off, numbers, you freeloading fretmaster. This forum is way too open to creeps like you. If Sinc can just recalibrate that spam filter to let Alice through but block you, I’ll say job well done. You are verbal pollution incarnate.

blogstrop

18 Jan 13 at 5:21 pm
Two dudes having sex doesn’t affect you.

Except every time you post that mental image I have to stop eating until I can delete it from my head. Please use your image making powers sparingly and have a thought for those of us who graciously tolerate people (gay and non gay) whose actions we might find, risible, repugnant and nugatory.

Abu Chowdah

18 Jan 13 at 5:22 pm
Hilarious.
You’d better talk to Dangph – it was his link that the quote comes from.
Another own goal……

Ha ha ha. You read this heading and took it at face value:

1. America is an unusually violent country.

If you read the context around it, you would see that they were arguing it’s NOT the case.

You should die of shame at this stage, Numbers, you idiot.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 5:24 pm
@Numbers
And yet you stated that I should have “spent more time on the two-way range instead of manouvres (sic) you would have developed a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons” based on…. what exactly?

Point out to me where in what I wrote about the correct nomenclature of the various weapons, and your use of the term “assault” as an attempt to transpose a particular gun into a classification to which it does not belong meant that I support the ownership or similar of such weapons.. or what precisely during my basic training (which would have been remarkably similar to what you went through as a Nasho all those years ago) would prevented me from ‘developing a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons’?

[Perhaps because you feel that as I did my service in the years between Vietnam and the Gulf War my experiences as an infantry soldier in the Australian Army is somehow less than yours, oh Great One?]
(“You weren’t there maaaaaan.. You don’t understaaaaaaaand…”)

Fact is, Bobby me ol’ son, you ‘pooh-poohed’ my comment and attempted to belittle based on an incorrect assumption, and also because I pointed out that your use of the word ‘assault’ in attempting to link one class of weapons with a military strategy was utterly flawed. It back-fired badly on you, and you refuse to admit your error.

Instead you continue to use all kinds of verbal hair-splitting and “manouvres” (sic) to avoid having to say one simple word.

You earlier suggested that others here needed to “Get Help”…. I would suggest that you are the one who really needs to “Get Help” to overcome both that massive chip on your shoulder, and your inability to admit error when you make it.

In conclusion, in the words of my own section leader when confronted with someone whining in a manner much like you constantly do here;
“Build a Bridge son… and Get. Over. It.”

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 5:24 pm
You really are out of petrol Numbers.

Nemerov demolishes Klein, and you cherrypick Kleins debunked points from Nemerev’s eviseration of them, then claim they support your position.

Seriously, you can’t make this stuff up. No-one except a clown like you would do anything but laugh at the absurdity you expressed.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 5:25 pm
Interesting happenings on Gates of Vienna over the last 24 hrs.

Winston Smith

18 Jan 13 at 5:32 pm
you should die of shame at this stage, Numbers, you idiot.

No – you should. Posting that drivel and using it as an argument for a thoroughly discredited gun policy which has resulted in one of the highest gun fatality rates in the developed world is shameful.
This is the basic and incontestable fact that is denied over and over again by gun wankers, both here and in the USA.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 5:33 pm
you should die of shame at this stage, Numbers, you idiot.

No – you should.

You are breathtaking in your dumbness.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 5:40 pm
or what precisely during my basic training (which would have been remarkably similar to what you went through as a Nasho all those years ago) would prevented me from ‘developing a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons’?

Anybody actually shoot at you during your basic training?
It concentrates the mind wonderfully…..

(“You weren’t there maaaaaan.. You don’t understaaaaaaaand…”)

You’ve been watching too many Rambo movies – you’ve swallowed the stereotype. And Vietnam vets don’t talk like that. You’re displaying crass ignorance.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 5:45 pm
you’ve swallowed the stereotype

I think I just popped a rib.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 5:59 pm
You are breathtaking in your dumbness.

Let’s explore dumbness, shall we?

USA – Rate of gun ownership = 88.8 firearms per 100 people.
Firearm related death rate = 10.2 per 100000.
Australia – Rate of gun ownership = 15 per 100 people.
Firearm related death rate = 1.05 per 100000.

Also –
The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.

Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.

The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.

The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Rates of homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among children: 26 industrialized countries.
MMWR. 1997;46:101-105.

Krug EG, Dahlberg LL, Powell KE. Childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm deaths: an international comparison. World Health Stat Q. 1996;49:230-235

And I’m dumb because I’m arguing that the USA has a problem?

Give me a break….

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 6:04 pm
And if we were to ‘help’ or exploit this potential, what benefit would it have for us? What is the payoff? At present we have less than 10% of the voters controlling 100% of the environment. How do we weed out the reds from the greens and is it worth it? I am still in favor of total annihilation and let god sort them out.

So this “total annihilation” is your personal ‘druthers then, or you see this as a feasible option?

As a landowner I have had a total gutsful of green regulation – of this idea of ‘stakeholders’ that someone can influence what I do without any skin in the game.

Helen, what you have just said, is you intend to start a fight, to the death, against some people who have nothing to lose, even though you do have something to lose, and they already understand your weak point and have demonstrated the capability of exploiting said weakness. So look, I’m hardly one to make your decisions for you, without a doubt this decision is yours alone, but you might give your strategy a careful second thought.

Tel

18 Jan 13 at 6:07 pm
Anybody actually shoot at you during your basic training?
It concentrates the mind wonderfully…..

As does watching the medics treat one of my fellow basic training inductees when he was accidentally shot by another trainee during live-firing practice Numbers…

But I guess since it didn’t happen during combat, then it wasn’t realistic enough to provide eveyone with an excellent example of how dangerous the weapons we were learning to use were for your taste, eh?

Or perhaps I can relate to you some of the (several) instances where I’ve had to attend crime scenes as a police officer and been confronted with people shot in various places with a wide variety of weapons…

But no, I forget myself. I musn’t question you or your experiences, as no-one else in the history of man has ever possibly seen all the things that you did during your ToD.

(And because I don’t see the need to big note myself about things I have seen and/or done during my service in the military, or as a police officer, unlike yourself who simply cannot go past any opportunity to point out that you were sent to Vietnam)

Face it Bobby me ol’ son, you made an assumption which lead to your erroneous comment. All you have to do is apologise and admit that I did not at any point pass comment on the legitimacy or merits of either owning, or banning the ownership of, ‘assault’-style rifles and I’ll let up on you.

The more you try to use vercal semantics to “manouvre” (sic) yourself out of it, the more and more childish and petulant you appear to everyone here (not that any of us really needed any further proof of it…)

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 6:08 pm
Numbers,
“The sequence indicates a Qld Nasho, but The nominal roll shows no such digger.”
The Nominal Roll shows only those that served in Vietnam and agreed to be listed on that roll.
I.E: Not everyone that went there is on the roll.
Further, not everyone one that did the birthday ballot service went to Vietnam.
Conseqent my observation that given the proximity of the service numbers the likelyhood is that you were in the same intake and more than likely knew 1735103.
But, if you were recruited and allocated a service number then granted a two year deferrment then 1735103 would’ve been and gone before you started thus you possibly wouldn’t know him.
50 years after the event ones’memory might be a bit cloudy but, the birthday ballot regs were adjusted something like 36 times in the first 3 or 6 months of implentation and a lot of.. not going there.
Numbers, while I disagree with just about every point of view you present what irks me me more is the holier than thou attitude of the un-intellectual ignoramuses that think it smart to ridicule the views of persons that actually endured Vietnam.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 6:11 pm
You’ve been watching too many Rambo movies – you’ve swallowed the stereotype. And Vietnam vets don’t talk like that. You’re displaying crass ignorance.

But your ‘pooh-poohing’ of my experiences with regard to ‘developing a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons’ is not displaying crass ignorance or, at the very least attempting to lessen my experinces because you think you had it worse than anyone else? Is that not the very essence of “You don’t understaaaaaaaaand..”?

You really are a completly hypoctrical dickwad, aren’t you Numbers..

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 6:12 pm
Shitn Jesus, Numbers get off it . Ignore the fucking shits.Walk away and let ém stew in their own juice.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 6:20 pm
And you fuckwit cats get off numbers you fucking ignorants.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 6:22 pm
Give me a break…

How about a comprehension exercise.
A little red meat:

It isn’t the bitter gun-and-bible clingers in McCain and Romney territory who are racking up a more horrifying annual kill rate than Al Qaeda; it’s Obama’s own voting base.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 6:28 pm
@JimD,

I refer you to my comment to Numbers at 4.34pm and ask you to point out why I am being a ‘fucking shit’ in trying to get Numbers to admit that he made an error with his assumptions and thus attempts to belittle me and my opinions and experiences (not just in his reply to my original post at 4.06pm, but in EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. of his replies to me since). Am I a “fucking shit” merely because I would like an apology for being maligned?

If so, I must remember to apply that same rule to Numbers (and m0nty, SfB, hammygar, yousrself, et al) each and every time in future that he (or they) complains about their experiences and opinions being maligned by other Cat commenters.

Sauce, goose, gander.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 6:30 pm
“irks me me more is the holier than thou attitude of the un-intellectual ignoramuses that think it smart to ridicule the views of persons that actually endured Vietnam.”
Took me a while to put that together little realising you fucking ignorants were perpetuating things. Wake up you fuckwits.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 6:31 pm
Odds firming on Bird.

Numbers:

And I’m dumb because I’m arguing that the USA has a problem?

He’s shifting the ground from ‘mostest violentsest country evah!!’ and hoping no-one notices.

But leftards like ole numbers the racist bigot? They simply exude slime.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 6:33 pm
First, let’s deal with the spelling of manoeuvres
The word, as you may be aware, is from the French. In that language, it is conventionally spelt as italics above. Note that you did not spell it this way – neither did I.

comment), I once participated in manuevers (sic) where (as infantry) we supported a combined arms assault on a target..

To blather on about my alleged mistake when you have done the same is making you look a bit silly.

Now, to understand what you’re really on about is not so straightforward. From your original post –

Or perhaps the Digital One (despite his vast teaching experience, and many years of service as a school principal… what was it again? 17? 19? 16? it keeps changing..) is confused by the meaning of assault when used in terms of a military strategy of attacking an enemy position as opposed to the sub-classification of military weapons that are smaller, lighter, and therefore easier to handle by troops in a confined space?

I’ll ignore your gratuitous claptrap about how long I was in the principalship – it’s not relevant – and look at what you seem to be saying.
I know what an assault is. I’ve participated in assaults.
I have chosen to use a definition of “assault weapon” from Wikipedia. Whilst it’s not infallible, it has been refined through challenge over time. Being smaller, lighter and easy to handle are certainly relevant characteristics, as this makes the weapon useful in an assault. From that point of view, the M16 was superior to the SLR because it could fire full auto, and was easier to handle, particularly in dense vegetation, than the SLR. The SLR, on the other hand was more reliable. The point is, both weapons were of military design, and it is perhaps this element (purpose) that is fundamental to the definition.
You could argue that weapons sold by Wal-mart (for example) in the USA are not strictly “assault weapons” because they lack one element in the definition (for example, the capacity to fire on full auto). This begs the question. They are marketed on the basis that they look like military weapons. This is why many buy them – for this cache.
The quibbling about nomenclature resembles the bullshit that goes on when car enthusiasts argue about the definition of a sports car.
Bottom line is, they are wieldy, powerful, and they look like military weapons.
They have no place in civilian hands, which is, the last time I looked, the law in this country.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 6:34 pm
JimD, we are thankful for Numbers service in Nam. It’s the only decent thing he ever accomplished.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 6:36 pm
Let’s explore dumbness, shall we?

Let’s shall. Numbers, go back to that graph I pointed you to. Notice that there is no real correlation between the number of guns and the homicide rate. That suggests that guns don’t increase the homicide rate.

Now, you say that the US is unusually violent. That simply isn’t true in world terms. But I’ll take your word for it that it’s more violent than other wealthy countries.

What could explain that violence? You are suggesting that it’s caused by guns, but as we’ve seen, that is implausible.

You can’t just pick two data points (Australia and the US) and draw a conclusion from that. That is just silly. For example, they play a lot of baseball in the US, whereas we don’t play it very much at all here. Therefore, using your logic, baseball increases the homicide rate.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 6:38 pm
I’ve been thinking about this since it was reported earlier in the week. I agree with with this guy. German repatriation of its gold hoard is potentially the biggest crack in the global monetary system since Nixon floated the US Dollar.

It’s a huge story. it doesn’t just place the US under a financial cloud but also German EU partners.

Lets say the EU gets more cantankerous as time wears on and Germany unilaterally decides to leave the system. Who would want to bet there aren’t any lawsuits and countersuits over the German gold hoard held in Paris and New York? I wouldn’t.

This is really a big story. It’s the birth of a third world currency, but not one as problematic as the old standard.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100022332/a-new-gold-standard-is-being-born/

JC

18 Jan 13 at 6:38 pm
@JimD

But, if you were recruited and allocated a service number then granted a two year deferrment then 1735103 would’ve been and gone before you started thus you possibly wouldn’t know him.

Could be.
I was called up in my final year in Teachers’ College (1967) but deferred for a year so I could have a year of practice under my belt before I was marched in at the beginning of 1969. This was common practice. It meant I was a year older than most other Nashos (15th Intake).

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 6:39 pm
If anyone knows lying 1735099s real name, it might be listed HERE.
Oh and Lance Armstrong is a lying piece of shit to be spat at, just like Gillard, SfB, Bill Clinton, Swan, SfB, advertisers of ” anti-perspirant “, 1735099, Marion Jones, IPCC, Milli Vanilli, Golf balls marked “long and straight”, Tim Flannery and SfB.

jumpnmcar

18 Jan 13 at 6:40 pm
If anyone knows lying 1735099s real name

His name is no secret and his service is legit. He’s also a narcissistic plonker.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 6:42 pm
Numbers and his personal anecdotes for every situation discussed here. It’s legendary in its convenience.

Numbers, give it a rest. You’ve been at it for hours, and commenting here too. Give yourself, and us, a break.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 6:43 pm
JimD – many heroic men endured Vietnam. Numbers may have been one of them. I think your intervention is just. He should take your brothers-in-arms advice and go away because he is not doing himself, nor anyone else, any favours by being here and acting up. On a blog like the Cat (all power to it) he invites what he gets.

However, he has made his case, let it stand for him and let him continue here if that is his wish.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

18 Jan 13 at 6:43 pm
Not sure where the gold story is going but in the States I read a piece about the German gold that was all moved to Fort Knox to keep it safe from the Russians. For some strange reason the US has been holding out for years and refusing to to an audit to check out just how much is there.

Maybe they are planning to sell off some shavings from the German gold bars to the Chinese or the highest bidder (off the record of course).

Poor Old Rafe

18 Jan 13 at 6:48 pm
@Dangph

What could explain that violence?

The overiding worship of violence in American culture, which is glorified in their entertainment industry, their mainstream media and on blogs such as these.
This essay puts it in perspective.
I’m not suggesting it’s caused by guns. I’m suggesting that more guns are not the cure. In any case, I really couldn’t care less about how the Yanks conduct themselves. I have a strong objection, however to cultural imperialism, emanating from the USA through their saturation of our media, changing social behaviour and mores in this country. I’ll fight it tooth and nail as long as I live and breathe.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 6:49 pm
The “I am the ultimate arbiter of all subjects, because once, armed only with a magnetised needle, a map of SEA torn from a National Geographic and Steel Cat on the gun line …” anecdotes do tend to weary one.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 6:53 pm
Wow. The new Hitler arises.

I have a strong objection, however to cultural imperialism, emanating from the USA through their saturation of our media, changing social behaviour and mores in this country. I’ll fight it tooth and nail as long as I live and breathe.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 6:54 pm
Numbers:

… from Wikipedia…. the M16 … could fire full auto…

By George I think he’s got it (a teensy bit). He’s finally very partly and grudgingly accepted that the 40 year old formal US Army definition of ‘assault rifle’ accepted by all the world’s military forces might just maybe perhaps a little bit be right and Wiki a load of the usual wikibollocks.

They are marketed on the basis that they look like military weapons. This is why many buy them – for this cache

Actually, they were only moderatly popular in the states until the ban, Then the popularity of AR-15 rifles exploded. Nothing makes a rifle more desirable to buy than the fact that it’s banned, and that bedwetting hoplophobes are afraid of the bug scary gun. It was the ban which made the AR-15 so popular.

Bottom line is, they are wieldy, powerful, and they look like military weapons.

Wieldy? Verbing is a completely American habit and a revolting one. For an anti American bigot, you certainly love Americanisms.

They are medium power, not powerful, as they have only 1200-1400 ft/pd energy per round. Compare to a 7.62mm or .338 round’s energy

They have no place in civilian hands, which is, the last time I looked, the law in this country.

Wrong and wrong. Still perfectly legal for pig shooters and several other types of vermin control tasks, still perfectly legal for C and D license holders (common to see semi-automatics like L1A1 down at the range I go to) and for thetrical armourers. Should I choose to own a semi-auto or twenty, I merely have to get a C license.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 6:54 pm
@Jumpnmcar
Amazing!
You’re about the third numbskull who has threatened me with referral to ANZMI. The last one hasn’t been game to show his face on this site after I asked him what happened to the referral. Care to try your luck?

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 6:54 pm
I really hate it when bloggers tease. If the point is to increase traffic and frustrate his readers, then Michael Smith has succeeded. They’ve located the missing files? Or the tape of TLS’s exit interview? Obviously it’s related to the Police investigation (into Gillard?) but the so-and-so won’t say. Still he sounds very happy…

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 6:56 pm
@Numbers

Note that you did not spell it this way – neither did I.

To blather on about my alleged mistake when you have done the same is making you look a bit silly.

Fair cop. Upon reflection I did make a similar typographical error. In that particular case I concede and apologise.

I’ll ignore your gratuitous claptrap about how long I was in the principalship – it’s not relevant – and look at what you seem to be saying.

Again, fair cop. I can hardly ask for an apology for being belittled when I do the very same thing. ‘Tit-for-tat’ is no excuse. Again I concede and apologise.

The quibbling about nomenclature resembles the bullshit that goes on when car enthusiasts argue about the definition of a sports car.

Again, very true.

On the flip side, however, you do acknowledge that it was you who originally introduced the quibbling by attempting to link the SLR with ‘assault weapons’ because you CO in ‘nam ordered you to ‘assault’ a bunker complex, right?

Had you not attempted to make such a tenuous analogy, I would not have had to raised the matter of Leopard tanks ‘assaulting’ a target being on similar (albeit shaky) linguistic ground.

Bottom line is, they are wieldy, powerful, and they look like military weapons.
They have no place in civilian hands, which is, the last time I looked, the law in this country.

Again, all true.

And again I ask you to point out where, in my original comment or any since, that I suggested that the ownership of these weapons by civilians was/is/could be a good thing.

And yet you passed comment that:

Perhaps if you had spent some time on the two-way range, as opposed to manouvres, you would have developed a more realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons.

(Emphasis on the bolded part, since we have dealt with the other mis-spelling section)

Can you point out where, again among my original comment or any since, I have no ‘realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons’?

I understand that perhaps you were generalising with the use of the word ‘you’; trying to encompass all those who had already commented on this topic (Mk50 et al) in your response to me, but by adding “perhaps if you had spent more time on the two-way range, as opposed to manoeuvres” you are in fact more directly referencing me than ‘everyone else’.

If that is indeed the case, and I think even you will concede that such was your intent, then I feel an apology from yourself to me for such is just as relevant as those I gave you above.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 7:04 pm
I’m not suggesting it’s caused by guns. I’m suggesting that more guns are not the cure.

Legal guns no doubt increase some types of violence but at the same time decrease other types of violence. I think it probably more or less evens out in the end. The net increase or decrease isn’t going to be a big deal in the scheme of things.

What is a big deal is creeping authoritarianism. Things ought not to be banned unless there is a very good reason to do so. History tells us that authoritarian governments are a real danger. That is where the real danger lies.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 7:05 pm
I have a strong objection, however to cultural imperialism, emanating from the USA through their saturation of our media, changing social behaviour and mores in this country. I’ll fight it tooth and nail as long as I live and breathe.

I’m glad this aspect of your generation is passing. Yours was an ugly period in Australian history and the anti-Americanism was just part of it. I think you guys don’t realise how ugly your influence has made Australian culture look.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 7:05 pm
What I said;

If anyone knows lying 1735099s real name, it might be listed HERE.

What 1800 5437 lied with;

You’re about the third numbskull who has threatened me with referral to ANZMI.

And people wonder why I distrust ” educators “

jumpnmcar

18 Jan 13 at 7:11 pm
Yours was an ugly period in Australian history and the anti-Americanism was just part of it.

I remember that time and it used to make me angry. My father was a flight instructor in WW2 stationed in Vancouver. He told me how on furlough they would travel down to Washington State where they were treated sooo well. The publican made sure they had good rooms, a car when possible, and discounted them. (Other people have told me similiar stories about the yanks: friendly and generous.) My father respected the “yanks” and stated they were good pilots but lousy navigators, which he said helps explain that Bermuda Triangle crap.

He did not like the Canucks though because they protested about going to France to fight so my father enacted his own revenge. On training flights in the Hurricanes he would take the trainees to the lakes where the Canucks were fishing. Coming in at circa 250 at 50 feet they would sweep down on the their canoes, watching the canucks furiously paddling to the shore line because the plane wash would topple their canoes. I can still imagine my father in the cockpit laughing his head off. But eventually they had to stop because the locals kicked up a stink.

As to the gun debate – fuck it. I’m not interested in the more guns- less guns analysis. Obviously guns are not the problem but feel free to continue with that line of thinking.

John H.

18 Jan 13 at 7:14 pm
Why is numbers’ real name of any interest?

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:23 pm
SDFC

Hey have you been focusing on Japan at all. If the BOJ is going to have to abide by a 2% inflation rate, the amount of Yen they need to put in the system is humungous. They’ll need those Cape container ships to move it.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 7:26 pm
Why is numbers’ real name of any interest?

Intimidation.

John H.

18 Jan 13 at 7:27 pm
@ Jumpnmcar

If anyone knows lying 1735099s real name, it might be listed HERE.

So if you claim referring readers to a site dedicated to exposing people fraudulently identifying as veterans, and insinuating that my name might be listed there is not a threat, then perhaps you can tell me what you would call it.

@John Mc
Ever thought about why it was “ugly”?
Would calling up young Australians to fight in a war at the bidding of the Americans, and when they came back, and the gloss had gone off it all, blaming these same conscripts for the war, have anything to do with it?
And would the fact that some members of the gilded generation (probably including you) have the arrogance to pass judgement, over 40 years later, on the generation that lived through this tumultous time be likely to contribute to this “ugliness”?
Think about it…

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 7:27 pm
If the US is printing 85 billion per month and it can only move the 10 year inflation indicator from 1.4 to 1.7% the mount of Yen the Japs have to print would be around $400 to 500 billion per month is US economy comparable terms. It’s so big it’s scary. Even if they don’t the signaling will essentially achieve the same results.

Either way, the Yen is going to weaken to blazes and the Nikkei will sky rocket to heaven.

Play this right and the person could become very very wealthy.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 7:30 pm
JC

I know I saw the report today about unlimited QE until the 2% is hit. That and the rumour they are going to drop the 0.1% cash rate floor.

Also, did you see the story about Abe’s economic adviser saying there should be something in the act covering to the BOJ to prevent the Bank running policy that was too restrictive?

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:30 pm
Not sure of the protocol – are there any IT whizzes here,and if so is it okay to ask for advice on a Trojan infection?

I realise this isn’t a tech forum but I’ve tried various recommendations to fix this (it’s a Spamhaus XBL/CBL thing if that helps) without success.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 7:31 pm
SDFC..

I am long to the freaking gills in Jap equities and short the yen. Wish me luck.

JC

18 Jan 13 at 7:31 pm
It’s funny the MOF has been desperate for ages to weaken the yen. All they needed to do was get crazy Shinzo on the job.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:33 pm
Good luck JC. I see it it 90 overnight. What’s your target and your stop-loss.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:35 pm
John Mc… I never understood the anti-americanism, either.

I think its a combination of our tall-poppy syndrome (biggest guy in the playground) and general cynicism and suspicion of people.

When I’ve encountered yanks here and abroad, I’ve found them to be the friendliest bunch of people… over-the-top genuine and enthusiastic, which is what many in Oz have a hard time dealing with.

duncanm

18 Jan 13 at 7:37 pm
That should be got to 90.

This slow thread response time is pissing me off.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:37 pm
If that is indeed the case, and I think even you will concede that such was your intent,

My intent was to inform through relating lived experience, however clumsily I may have expressed it. Of 10 in my rifle section, 7 survive, and I’m one of only three not totally or partially incapacitated.
I don’t have time for wankers who believe military weapons are toys. If you’ve seen the results of gunshot wounds you’d have a similar appreciation. What the bloody things are called is neither here nor there….

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 7:37 pm
Numbers will be pleasuring himself furiously tonight. We’ve dedicated a day’s worth of Open Thread to him.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 7:39 pm
“Numbers will be pleasuring himself furiously tonight.”

Jeeze, thanks!

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 7:41 pm
Our product names are so boring.

http://runt-of-the-web.com/terribly-named-food-products

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 7:47 pm
Meanwhile, the Gillard regime continues to reduce Australia’s energy consumption one business at a time.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 7:49 pm
I just had a quick look at Michael Smith’s blog and he is absolutely elated about something. He says he has sworn not to reveal what the development is yet but doesn’t sound good for TLS. Please God, let him be right.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 7:49 pm
Ok I am testing

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 7:50 pm
Oh mi goodness – it works!! I was banned for a while.

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 7:52 pm
but now I have to do two submits buttons. I think Sinc wants me to check my spelling first.

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 7:53 pm
Ok I am testing

Congratulations on the twelve step programme.

lotocoti

18 Jan 13 at 7:54 pm
@Numbers

Would calling up young Australians to fight in a war at the bidding of the ~~Americans~~ British Empire at Gallipoli in WW One… or Egypt and Tunisia in WW Two (particularly when Japan threatened Austrlai’s north)

Given that the men who fought in WWI and WWII were primarily volunteers, as opposed to conscripts, I still wonder how you feel about the above?

blaming these same conscripts for the war

The overwhelming numbers that ‘blamed’ Aussie diggers over Vietnam came from the Left (ALP, and now Green) side of politics Numbers, even you have to acknowledge that.

National service’s early opponents included the Parliamentary Opposition (note that the Coalition was the government of the day, which made the ALP the Opposition until Gough in 1972), religious groups, trade unionists (another bastion of which side of politics?), academics (ditto to trade unionists), and young men affected by the scheme. From within this disparate anti-conscription movement groups began to form and organise, some becoming prominent and forming branches across Australia. Among them: Youth Campaign Against Conscription (YCAC) formed in late 1964 and closely aligned to the Australian Labor Party (ALP)

Source: FEderal Government Website: Australia and the Vietnam War

Which side of politics did you say you supported Bob?

I can somewhat understand hating conservatives for sending you and other young men to fight in Vietnam (the merits of such a war we could debate until oblivion and not see eye-to-eye I’ll wager though), however if you want to sheet home blame for the response many vets got upon their return, you need to look to your own side of the political fence before you start pointing fingers at conservatives.

In any event, based on my own observations of the response the Vietnam vets get on ANZAC Day marches down here, modern Australia has moved on from the catcalls of ‘babykiller’ and ‘rapist’ that you and other vets got in ’72 to respectful applause and shouts of “good on ya” from much of the Australian populace now.

It’s only the die-hard, rusted-on luvvies of the Left that still hold a grudge about those who were sent to Vietnam…

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 7:55 pm
Tracey, if you think that you have cleared the trojan (ie have run a decent antivirus program or gotten a clear scan from exterminate-it), then according to other experiences with the same problem, you may need to request them to remove the block from your ip

: http://www.spamhaus.org/lookup/

They can check your ip and remove the block if it’s clean.

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 7:56 pm
lotocati
I’m not even up to step one! Why go there?

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 7:56 pm
I just had a quick look at Michael Smith’s blog and he is absolutely elated about something.
I noticed it as well, but as I noted earlier, I really hate it when they tease.

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 8:00 pm
@ Brian of Moorabbin

however if you want to sheet home blame for the response many vets got upon their return,

The Left always opposed the war. At least they were consistent. The Conservatives dropped us like hot potatoes when it became politically expedient to do so, and it was the Conservatives that conscripted us.
Some reflections on that time here.

1735099

18 Jan 13 at 8:03 pm
Tracey the general rule is keep yr computer up to date and keep your anti virus software up to date. I do not buy anti virus / anti trojan software anymore. Somehow my son (aged 20 who says I dont need to) updates all regularly (all his free downloads) and I never have a problem with trojans or viruses.
I havent paid Norton or Macafee or anyone for two years (yay).
You need a 20 year old tech head in the house. Seriously, they are amazing and cost nothing.

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 8:04 pm
I don’t have time for wankers who believe military weapons are toys. If you’ve seen the results of gunshot wounds you’d have a similar appreciation. What the bloody things are called is neither here nor there….

Come on Bob. Seriously. You’re still ducking and weaving and dodging.

Do I really need to go back and point out my post at 6.08pm?

Again I ask:
Can you point out where, again among my original comment or any since, I have no ‘realistic appreciation of the effect of these weapons’?

And again I ask you to point out where, in my original comment or any since, that I suggested that the ownership of these weapons by civilians was/is/could be a good thing.

Stop trying to obsfucate and misdirect. Just answer those two points.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:04 pm
Alice, Sinc pointed out earlier that you were getting caught up by the spam filter. There was no ban.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:06 pm
Oh Ok I was stuck in spam filter….I thought I’d been banned except no-one told me!!
I was devastated!

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 8:09 pm
The gutless old traitor has only been wrecking this thread for 10 hours. Feels like 10 days. Wanking hand must have blisters.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 8:10 pm
Thanks Cold Hands. Sorry, I didn’t explain myself very well. I’ve done a number of system scans using my own anti-virus programme and also a Microsoft one that is (supposeduly) specific to this type of problem. Both return reports that I have no infected files but my problem remains – namely that I can receive but not send from my Bigpond email account in Outlook (either on my laptop or my phone) – for reasons I don’t understand I can send emails via Webmail from the same laptop. I was reluctant to use the Spamhaus link to unblock my ISP as the problem hasn’t been resolved. Is it safe to just do that anyway do you think? Sorry for my thickness on this type of stuff.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:12 pm
I’m not stupid Alice. I have anti-virus software, in fact I’m pretty fanatical about it.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:16 pm
Would calling up young Australians to fight in a war at the bidding of the Americans,

Actually the cabinet documents show it was based on sober Australian appreciation of the Australian strategic situation based on responses to and contributions to the Emergency and our major role in Konfrontasi all of which were contemporaneous which led us to commit. ‘The yanks made us do it’ was merely a left wing meme of the era. Australia’s record in our own strategic appreciations is very good. Check the strategic appreciation for the 1923 Imperial Conference on the problem Japan posed post Washingto Treaty. It all came true 19 years later.

…and when they came back, and the gloss had gone off it all, blaming these same conscripts for the war, have anything to do with it?

Not bitter much? Which is really odd as the demonising of Vietnam vets was done by the Australian left at the paid behest (as we now know from the Mitrokhin Archive) of the KGB… and you came from and then rejoined the Australian left.

“Me thinks he doth protest too much”

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
I’ve never understood this wrecking the thread bullshit. It seems anyone who disagrees is wrecking the thread.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 8:17 pm
1800 007

So if you claim referring readers to a site dedicated to exposing people fraudulently identifying as veterans, and insinuating that my name might be listed there is not a threat, then perhaps you can tell me what you would call it

I call “If anyone knows lying 1735099s real name, it might be listed HERE.” an inquisitive tip.
A threat ?
LOL, you really are a mendacious coward.
I hope teachers are more rigorously screened since you started in 67,68 or 69, ( because you’ve stated all 3) in CanDos new beautiful QLD education system.
( ps. I never lie or threaten anyone)

jumpnmcar

18 Jan 13 at 8:18 pm
The Left always opposed the war. At least they were consistent.

And it was the Left who lined the streets to shout ‘babykiller’, ‘rapist’, etc at the returning Diggers.

The Conservatives dropped us like hot potatoes when it became politically expedient to do so

I tend to disagree with this, but then again perhaps my own political view does bias that view.

and it was the Conservatives that conscripted us.

True. And as much as I may disagree with your view that they ‘dropped (vets) like a hot potato when it became politically expedient for them to do so’ I wonder how many of them lined the streets to yell obscenities, as opposed to hiding their faces in embarrassment or similar? Again, maybe it’s my political view colouring the situation but I’m betting more of the latter than the former…

Some reflections on that time here.

With due respect an article written by yourself, even if printed at Independant Australia, isn’t really that ‘independant’ is it? I mean, I’ve heard ‘reflections’ on the Vietnam War from numerous uncles who are vets (on both mother and father’s sides of the family) that I’ll bet would have your head spinning like Linda Blair in ‘The Exorcist’ given that several of them are even more Right-wing conservative than me..

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:21 pm
Tracey I had anti virus software as well before my kid got so engrossed in computers and IT.

I got a trojan even though I had it (anti virus up to date software).

Check the web for anti trojan software. I think I downloaded a program (had to pay) but it did clean it up?

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 8:24 pm
Tracey,

Try Lavasoft’s “As-Aware” software, or failing that try looking up Malwarebytes.

Failing those, I’ve sometimes had success getting advice/assistance through the Whirlpool Tech forum.

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
Sorry, that should be “Ad-Aware” by Lavasoft…

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:28 pm
sdfc

In the name of all that is Holy, nobody tell Bob Brown or ShitferBrains about the ‘Fresh Cemen Dip‘ or the national balance of trade will be destroyed.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
Sorry Alice for sounding so rude. I’ve been trying to rid myself of this problem for a couple of days and my frustration is showing.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
Both return reports that I have no infected files but my problem remains

Do you mean you no longer have any viruses or that you never did have any (detected)?

What happens when you try to send from Outlook?

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 8:29 pm
I got an Apple, never had a problem, never paid for protection.
Just lucky I guess

Anyhoo, how accurate is the Debt Clock?

jumpnmcar

18 Jan 13 at 8:31 pm
MK50

I thought Bob Brown might be more concerned with crack cheese.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 8:34 pm
Dangph when I try to send from Outlook I get an error message which says (in part)

“Connection refused. ISP ############## is listed on the Exploits Block List.”
When I go to the Spamhaus website and enter my ISP it brings up the CBL link.

I am just trying the link from ColdHands now (Eterminate It) which I hadn’t found previously so fingers crossed.

While I’m babbling, what do you gurus recommend virus protection-wise? I’ve used a few over the years and everyone seems to suggest something different.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:36 pm
Jump

Our national debt is much higher than that.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 8:36 pm
Thanks too Brian, just saw your links too. Next on my list. I will sort this bastard tonight if it kills me!

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:39 pm
@jumpnmcar

Not sure. It is based on figures released from Treasury though (insert favourite economic conspiracy theory here?).

Looking at some of the comments I wouldn’t be surprised to see many Cat regulars passing comment there (although the last comment was back in mid September 2011).

Brian of Moorabbin

18 Jan 13 at 8:40 pm
Tracey, phone Bigpond’s help line and they’ll talk you through a fix.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 8:44 pm
60 jobs go at Penrice Soda – blamed on the carbon tax. Piggy Howes must still be on holidays enjoying his new QANTAS discount.

H B Bear

18 Jan 13 at 8:46 pm
John, 7:14 pm:

LOL.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 8:47 pm
namely that I can receive but not send from my Bigpond email account in Outlook (either on my laptop or my phone) – for reasons I don’t understand I can send emails via Webmail from the same laptop. I was reluctant to use the Spamhaus link to unblock my ISP as the problem hasn’t been resolved. Is it safe to just do that anyway do you think? Sorry for my thickness on this type of stuff.

My guess is that for some reason your outgoing mail settings are not correct. You probably should be sending your outgoing mail via Bigpond’s SMTP servers not sending them direct. I’m not surprised that a bunch of Bigpond’s customer IPs would be blacklisted. And your IP will change over time so getting just one of them unblocked won’t really help.

Have a look on the Bigpond site for information about setting the outgoing SMTP server. They might even have some information on how to set that for your phone and for outlook.

Webmail works because its sent from the webmail’s IP address, not yours which is blacklisted.

Chris

18 Jan 13 at 8:48 pm
Numbers @ 7.37pm
Let em go.
eg: Idiot from Moorabbin wouldn’t know shit from clay knows all but asks questions,
Moorabbin and surrounds used be great for growing vegetables 99.9999999999% were edible and consumed. Brian’s the .00000000001% bit left over that causes you gut ache if consumed.
Faggott Shot from Bris is so up itself wouldn’t know arse from elbow Musta copped a 45 so’s now a 50.
Fuck ‘em numbers half the arseholes are so up ém selves they coudn’t manage a decent shit in a fortnight.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 8:52 pm
Nothing with my outgoing settings has changed but I will check again Chris.

CL, I avoid speaking to Telstra like the plague. Each call ages me 10 years (and I aint seeing 45 again) but God help me, I may have to.

Thanks all. This really is a great, helpful community.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 8:53 pm
Tracey,

I know what you are going through. I nearly went mental trying to fix mine as well when i got a trojan.
I just asked my son then and he says he only uses “microsoft security essentials” on mine and “its free” and its “anti trojan”.

Sorry – he wont say any more. Im interrupting the me generation on facebook just now in my house so he is imnpatient, but he says thats all he has been using on mine.
The me gen says thats all anyone “essentially needs.” and “it will fix trojans that are already there.”

I dont know any more than that Tracey. Hope it helps.

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 8:54 pm
Tracey, if you can no longer find evidence of an infection, the reason that Outlook is blocked is because your ip address is still listed as infected. If that’s the case, http://www.spamhaus.org/lookup/ should be able to tell you how to lift the ban.

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 8:56 pm
Hey, numbers is banging on about Vietnam again. What a shock.

10 months of your life numbers. Makes the rest of your miserable existance seem an utter waste doesn’t it?

jupes

18 Jan 13 at 8:58 pm
Was reluctant to but have just done so Cold-Hands.
It tells me it may take an hour for my email server to recognise the unblocking so we’ll see.

I just find it strange that with no change to my Outlook/BigPond settings (checked again on phone as well) and a series of scans finding no infected files that it’s still happening – call me dumb.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:03 pm
Occasionally I lose a comment on this site but that’s more due to the vagaries of the internet electronically, database inputs overloading, but rarely from virus programs. I’ve been working with computers since 1973 and I’ve had, maybe, 2 or 2, confirmed virus issues. Otherwise it’s part and parcel of transmitting data electronically. Shit happens frequently.

Louis Hissink

18 Jan 13 at 9:05 pm
Tracey,

Bigpond user? Ho Ho, occasionally BP goes belly up with outlook and that is because outlook has developed a problem.

1. Backup all your outlook pst files.
2. Write down all your email account details, etc. Passwords blah blah.
3. Close Outlook.
4. Go to control panel, Mail, and delete your outlook profile.
5. Create a new profile, fill in all the details, and restart Outlook, and WAIT for it to rebuild it’s offline folders etc. (I use Exchange Server only with Outlook, and as I also have Windows 8, restrict Hotmail and my bigpond account to the Windows 8 inbuilt mail program. Business mail is quarantined in Outlook).
6. You should now be able to post comments using email again.

Louis Hissink

18 Jan 13 at 9:11 pm
I’m sure you’re right Louis. I now think that I possibly never had a Trojan infection at all despite the error message I was getting. The mere suggestion of a virus spooks me though. Is Spamhaus itself dodgy?

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:13 pm
I should add that my previous comment applies to Wintel machines – business types don’t muck around with niche operating systems and computers like Apfel.

Louis Hissink

18 Jan 13 at 9:15 pm
~~Bird~~ JimD:

Faggot pain in the arse idiot shit from clay gut ache faggott up its arse.
Fuck arseholes fucking fuckwits fucking fuckwit fucking shits

yes! We have a left-wing intellectual here. One can tell from the delicacy and nuance of its written word.

Although it’s also apparent that he enjoys both pederasty and acting out a certain German film genre with his catamite and coprophilic ‘friends’.

Whatever floats his boat.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 9:17 pm
Tracey

Spamhaus? Never heard of it. I run Windows 8 or Microsoft Security Essentials on Win 7 back to Windows XP in the office. Never have a problem with viruses, and if so, they are quickly sorted.

Have your computer literate offspring pay for their board and meals by resetting Outlook

Louis Hissink

18 Jan 13 at 9:18 pm
I think he wants you Mk50. Really badly.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:19 pm
Tracey, my experience of Bigpond’s phone techs is that they’re excellent.

C.L.

18 Jan 13 at 9:20 pm
I see I haven’t missed much – just the old one-note piccolo from a bygone age.
I was going to mention the gold going back to Germany yesterday, but got distracted. It has some legs as a story about fear of future hyperinflation and currency collapse, the usual end to QE, isn’t it?

blogstrop

18 Jan 13 at 9:23 pm
Tracey, that may be the funniest, and also the repellent, post I have seen in many a month.

Well done indeed!

To paraphrase Jed Clampett: Ah think ah’ll lock all the doors now’n fetch mah rifle.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 9:24 pm
For peace and harmony on the blog perhaps you could just assume the position?

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:28 pm
Come on Mk50!! LOL
it is very very funny but you exaggerated just a tiny little weemsy bit…
with the f words quoted from Jim D

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 9:30 pm
LOL Tracey….
is that kneel down with rifle poking out window between curtains position?

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 9:32 pm
You probably should be sending your outgoing mail via Bigpond’s SMTP servers not sending them direct. I’m not surprised that a bunch of Bigpond’s customer IPs would be blacklisted. And your IP will change over time so getting just one of them unblocked won’t really help.

I had this problem some time back. Telstra often won’t let you use their SMTP servers through another ISP; they’ll tell you to use your ISP’s SMTP servers. However, you’ll probably find that your ISP won’t let you use their SMTP servers with the Telstra return address.

I pissed off the Telstra email address and went to Gmail. Great decision especially across multiple platforms.

Then I got rid of Telstra entirely. They’re popular with a lot of people but I reckon an average ISP with really poor support and a dog’s breakfast of a website.

I’d recommend iiNet (or Netspace or Westnet; same bunch). Great support, big effort to integrate with other services and they’ve done a lot of work off their own back to oppose internet censorship.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 9:32 pm
Bob Brown or JimD I ain’t.

Besides, you used the words ‘peace and harmony’ and ‘this blog’ in the same sentence.

This may cause the interent to melt.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 9:32 pm
Read the following from a commenter on Michael Smith’s blog:

Forensic experts have identified the source of the yellow snow at the ski resort and DNA proves that the yellow snow writing saying “RUDD SUX” is Swan’s, but handwriting experts confirm it is Gillard’s handwriting.

LOL

Huckleberry Chunkwot

18 Jan 13 at 9:34 pm
What’s your favourite ice cream to eat in this heat?

boy on a bike

18 Jan 13 at 9:35 pm
I always enjoy a Clampett quote but when I saw an earlier post from Jim D what flashed into my mind was the ‘… but suddenly a new contender has emerged…’ from the always brilliant George Costanza.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:35 pm
I’ll take that on board John Mc. I’m in a regional area though so for where I am Telstra is the only reliable option for mobile coverage, at least for now. I certainly have no fondness for them though.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:38 pm
Tracey, my experience of Bigpond’s phone techs is that they’re excellent.

make mine a double on that, Tracey.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 9:38 pm
Ice cream is no good when you’re nearing 40 degrees boy on a bike. What you need is a Paddle Pop Lemonade ice block. Or one of those old pine-orange ones. I can’t remember the brand now but haven’t seen them in years. God I loved them as a kid.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:41 pm
What’s your favourite ice cream to eat in this heat?

I had a Green Apple scoop and a Coconut scoop – i.e. separate scoops from a little but upmarket homemade ice cream parlour. Yummo.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 9:41 pm
I used to love caramel triple treats and vienna chocolates except both were discontinued years ago and I dont like these monster magnums (too much chocolate and too fat) sigh.n
Mango slushies home made have been good – just mango and ice. Pineapple might go OK in it as well.

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 9:48 pm
“Connection refused. ISP ############## is listed on the Exploits Block List.”
When I go to the Spamhaus website and enter my ISP it brings up the CBL link.

Don’t they tell you how to remove the block?

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 9:49 pm
Love a mango Weis bar – best thing to come out of Queensland.

boy on a bike

18 Jan 13 at 9:50 pm
Your ABC reports on the fulfilment of another of the Cat’s prophecies:

Call for tax on sugary soft drinks

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-17/call-for-tax-on-sugary-soft-drinks/4468924

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 9:51 pm
While I’m babbling, what do you gurus recommend virus protection-wise? I’ve used a few over the years and everyone seems to suggest something different.

They often go up and down in quality. When I investigated this question last, Bitdefender seemed to be the best. I’ve been using it for a while now, and I’m pretty happy with it.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 9:52 pm
Oh bugger John Mc – another of lifes little pleasures hit with a tax

Alice

18 Jan 13 at 9:53 pm
I must be a freak. I like ice cream (Sarah Lea Ultra Chocolate, yummm) but it always makes me feel thirsty and crave water after I’ve eaten it.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 9:55 pm
Quote as in quote not faggott shot.Typical of loser/liars misrepresenting what others may have said.
But, congratulations on collating a set of unconnected words into such a self descriptive sentence.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 10:00 pm
Haven’t lived ’til you’ve inhaled a tub of this, best washed down with a bottle of bright green liquid sugar.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 10:06 pm
best washed down with a bottle of bright green liquid sugar.

Midori? Really?

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:07 pm
Call for tax on sugary soft drinks

According to the lefty law of ironic consequences, the ban will end up making people fatter.

It could happen like this: People will start drinking sugarless soft drinks instead. However, there is some evidence that these drinks make you fat. They mess up your brain’s ability to detect calories from sugar, so people could end up eating more than they realize.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 10:10 pm
Or a hand-made OP Bundy and Coke.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 10:11 pm
Worst. Open. Thread. Evah.

You people have really got to learn that the only way to respond to that self aggrandizing, staggeringly stupid, morbidly obese, syphilis addled, utterly insane ol’ boomer deadshit is to heap unrelenting abuse on unrelenting abuse.

Do not attempt to engage the braying ol’ donkey in any kind of debate, you will merely end up looking as staggeringly stupid as it is.

The vile sanctimonious piece of shit is not welcome here, it aggravates the regulars no end and is long overdue for a banning.

If evah there was a more cliched, pathetic, utterly contemptibly stereotypical marxist twat totally unworthy of any serious consideration, it would be a nearing 70, drug addled boomer hippy who had the misfortune to be ‘conscripted’ during the era of peace, lurve and syphilis, man, duuhhhh.

yourself who simply cannot go past any opportunity to point out that you were sent to Vietnam

Where the lobotomised ol’ pansy spent its entire time peeling potatoes.

Enough, FFS.

In the real world no one else puts up with the sad, stupid ol’ clown – why the fuck are we?

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:12 pm
Too much red cordial at the Canberra Cat Collective meeting?

Sinclair Davidson

18 Jan 13 at 10:18 pm
Rabz, you are probably right. I’ve learned that Numbers doesn’t argue in good faith. If you pin him down, he will just squirm around and come out with some new nonsense.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 10:20 pm
Correct, Rabzie.

Tom

18 Jan 13 at 10:21 pm
From when I was young.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnpwuRlXbhk

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 10:21 pm
You need a 20 year old tech head in the house. Seriously, they are amazing and cost nothing.

You are VERY lucky Alice, I have one who is 21, and she costs me HEAPS !

hzhouswife

18 Jan 13 at 10:22 pm
Too much red cordial at the Canberra Cat Collective meeting?

This could be alleged!

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:23 pm
Rabz,I presume you are referring to MK50 and I totally agree with you.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 10:25 pm
Well Mk50 (and others in support) haven’t you had a time of it bringing on Brave Warrior Bob on a day when he clearly skipped his medication.

What a spittle flecked, intemperate – barking mad in fact – performance during today from the numbers hero. I venture those chips on his shoulders are embiggening by the day, in direct proportion to the number of times he attempts to duck direct questions by scrambling on all fours down blind alleys of deafness, obfuscation and downright lies.

I can assure the younger ones here that the reception by the public of soldiers returning from Vietnam was nowhere near as poor as what my-many-magnificent-numbers claims. The photographic and news record is there to see of universally applauded marches, armed marches, down the main streets of cities. I have posted links here before, to show the truth of it.

There was a small number of isolated incidents staged for the media by the minority – minority – protestor groups, but the passage of time has nurtured the hyperbowl of the maniacally extreme rewriters of history for their own nefarious purposes, whatever they are, including self aggrandisement. The people of whom this surly old goat complains are the very people he openly admits to supporting politically.

It was the Liberal Party/National Party that decided to withdraw from Vietnam, not Comrade Gough. There was a handful of Australians remaining when he took office. The withdrawal was well advanced long before numbers went near the joint.

I’ll repeat what I’ve noted here before – numerous mates were full time, lifetime, soldiers and air crew serving in Vietnam and many other places for significant periods, not mere months. They comport themselves with quiet dignity, just as any man proud of his craft, and they are nothing at all like numbers.

On Vietnam now and then we give ‘em plenty on the result, and they just smile and stand defiantly in the treasured Ho Chi Minh t-shirts we struck for one of them, printed with “Silver Medallist, Asian Games, 1962-1972.”

I’ve not heard any of them ever use this charlatan’s challenge to differing opinion of “You weren’t there/shot at/exposed to icky blood/special-like-me, what would you know?” He’s a bloody disgrace for that alone.

He’d not be welcome in their company.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 10:26 pm
I’ve learned that the spudpeeler doesn’t argue in good faith.

Yes, Dan, arguing in good faith was your first mistake.

We’re talking about the sort of indescribable imbecile who equates voluntary voting with forced disenfranchisement.

That type of sheer gall, vanity, dishonesty and above all, staggering stupidity, is beyond parody.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:31 pm
Just a thought from flicking through (online) the New York Times (I don’t know why either):

The US is perfectly situated to conduct some experiments with gun control. Just let those states that are most keen to ban firearms get on with it, and leave the other ones alone. Pass extreme laws about illegal firearms in that state and worse ones for bringing them into the state. Have enforced gun buybacks and more gun free zones. Start with California.

Let the other more government-orientated states like Vermont, Maine, maybe the Pacific Northwest do a Switzerland and have more laws for storage and gun free zones etc.

And let Texas, New Hampshire, Arizona etc just do their thing largely unregulated.

Lets see how things pan out.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:33 pm
I presume you are referring to MK50 and I totally agree with you

Oh goody – more roadkill.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:34 pm
Given the freedom of movement, having unlimited gun access in some states is likely to have a detrimental effect on firearms control in other states.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
“Oh goody – more roadkill.”

I’m with you Rabz me old china, but be swift in your ruthlessness ‘cos it’s Friday and I’m tired.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
Other than that it is a good idea.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 10:37 pm
~~Bird~~ JimD:

Quote as in quote not faggott shot.Typical of loser/liars misrepresenting what others may have said.
But, congratulations on collating a set of unconnected words into such a self descriptive sentence.

target hit and burning brightly, eh?

All your words, child. All your words. Now crawl off and cry under your flat rock.

You can get back to your catamites now.

Mick – agreed. I also know quite a few Vietnam vets, hell, I’ve served with enough of them. Quiet dignity describes nearly all of them, especially the ex-ARVN guys.

None of that with this nancyboy, though, mores the pity.

Mk50 of Brisbane

18 Jan 13 at 10:38 pm
“Silver Medallist, Asian Games, 1962-1972.”

Classic! That’s real Aussie humour.

Great post Mick. I admit numbers was starting to piss me off, although I didn’t respond to him.

You expressed better than I could what a wanker he is, past service notwithstanding.

Eddystone

18 Jan 13 at 10:39 pm
Thanks Mick,

But I’m not wading back through that utter sewer.

Whatever it is, will get what’s coming to it.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:40 pm
Given the freedom of movement, having unlimited gun access in some states is likely to have a detrimental effect on firearms control in other states.

This is always going to be an issue no matter what. There’s a third of the world’s firearms there in private hands to start with. The nature of the US’s borders are always going to the same, especially with Mexico; it’s an issue in Australia and we don’t have any borders.

Just let those who like regulation enact more extreme laws and enforcement to get the guns out of their states. Even if it’s not perfect it could be reasonably expected that some of your desired outcomes should start to manifest, surely.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:42 pm
“You weren’t there/shot at/exposed to icky blood/special-like-me, what would you know?” He’s a bloody disgrace for that alone.

Quite so.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:43 pm
I’m obviously ignoring the Second Amendment being universal and now an individual right incorporated against the states. But just do the best you can; California has been pretty creative with passing bans and taxes etc on stuff in the past in the most un-American fashion! Just continue that theme.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
And, Sinc seeing as you are on deck perhaps you could extrude an apology on my behalf from rocketman for the really over the top false character inference and portrayal of random words over a period as an allin one statement.

JimD

18 Jan 13 at 10:45 pm
Yes, Dan, arguing in good faith was your first mistake.

And my second mistake was … ?

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 10:46 pm
John Mc – that only works if you’re willing to also have interstate customs inspections to the level done for international trade between states. Otherwise smuggling is trivial. Criminals basically get their guns from very few sources – buy it themselves if they are allowed to or can avoid background checks, steal it from someone who legally owns it, or buy a smuggled gun.

Reducing the number of guns in the population and imposing restrictions on ownership helps with the first two, but you also need to address smuggling. Australia has a bit of a natural advantage which is perhaps one reason why restrictive gun legislation works here pretty well. But IIRC perhaps because of the ease of buying guns in the US most gun smuggling in the states is mostly exports – guns sent to Mexico where the laws are more restrictive in exchange for drugs (and most of it is not done by the government

Chris

18 Jan 13 at 10:46 pm
“You weren’t there/shot at/exposed to icky blood/special-like-me, what would you know?” He’s a bloody disgrace for that alone.

Take it easy on the guy. He was once used as target practice in the section circle jerk. He can’t deal with the feelings that he enjoyed it, and kept secretly hoping it would happen again.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:47 pm
There is no non-porous border. Show somewhere that has stopped the drug trade.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:49 pm
They comport themselves with quiet dignity, just as any man proud of his craft, and they are nothing at all like numbers.

On Vietnam now and then we give ‘em plenty on the result, and they just smile and stand defiantly in the treasured Ho Chi Minh t-shirts we struck for one of them, printed with “Silver Medallist, Asian Games, 1962-1972.”

I’ve not heard any of them ever use this charlatan’s challenge to differing opinion of “You weren’t there/shot at/exposed to icky blood/special-like-me, what would you know?” He’s a bloody disgrace for that alone.

Ah, Mick what a treasure you are. At times.
Seriously though, you are correct in that people respond negatively towards someone who is the complete opposite of those brave souls who “comport themselves with quiet dignity” in terms of their service to this country. His blaring announcement of his service number was enough to make me suspicious of him. I mean who does that other than someone wanting to elicit what? Sympathy? Pity? Lord it over us thinking no one else here has been on active duty? Such arrogance! He should be ashamed of himself.

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 10:50 pm
Don’t they tell you how to remove the block?

In all likelyhood Tracey doesn’t own the IP, Telstra do. And its probably on the blacklist for a good reason such as one of Telstra’s customers used it in the past to spam. And unless she’s paid for a fixed IP address (unlikely I’d guess) it’ll change every now and then when she reconnects. I wouldn’t be surprised if whole blocks of Telstra IPs are listed in spamhaus.

Unless you really know what you’re doing you should be using your ISP’s mail server to relay your outgoing mail for you. Quite a few ISPs simply block their customers from sending email directly as too many windows users end up with bots on their computers which send spam.

Chris

18 Jan 13 at 10:51 pm
And my second mistake was … ?

Being civil to the narcissistic ol’ bleepgobbler.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:52 pm
Apologies Dan – I take that back, you’ve dished out as much well deserved abuse as anyone.

You only made that one mistake after all, it seems.

Great stuff.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
Did anyone see this interview on Aunty with Malcolm Fraser?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/programs/one-plus-one/

I understand why the guy was an unsuccessful Prime Minister, even if he was before my lifetime. Reading about him as well, makes me think that he could be up there with Whitlam, Rudd and the Slapper as Australia’s worst PM’s.

Andrew

18 Jan 13 at 10:53 pm
But IIRC perhaps because of the ease of buying guns in the US most gun smuggling in the states is mostly exports – guns sent to Mexico where the laws are more restrictive in exchange for drugs (and most of it is not done by the government

That sounds like the old “90% of illegal guns in Mexico were bought in the USA” trick, which I’m sure you know has been thoroughly debunked.

Eddystone

18 Jan 13 at 10:54 pm
” “Silver Medallist, Asian Games, 1962-1972.”

Classic! That’s real Aussie humour.”

Eddystone – that particular mate visited Hanoi a few years back, by air this time because, he said “I tried walking a couple of times before but it was hot and dry and people were shooting at me.”

When he returned his wife told us of his sneaky souvenir Ho Chi Minh t-shirt purchase and she smuggled it to us to have it copied and done up as described, for presentation to him and several others at the welcome back barbeque. His grin was a sight to see.

Thanks for your kind remarks too.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 10:54 pm
You’re right John it should at least have some impact regardless of the law in other states.

If only to make it harder for sad losers to get their hands on guns to shoot up schools.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 10:55 pm
I’m pretty confident the differences would be negligible. But of course others feel differently. Let the experiment role on!

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 10:59 pm
Reading about him as well, makes me think that he could be up there with Whitlam, Rudd and the Slapper as Australia’s worst PM’s.

Without doubt he’s in the bottom third.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:00 pm
Fair enough.

sdfc

18 Jan 13 at 11:01 pm
Without doubt he’s in the bottom third.

It would be interesting to look at who people regard as Australia’s best PM over our history. Obviously some of the earlier PM’s may become unnoticed, but it would be an interesting poll or discussion.

Andrew

18 Jan 13 at 11:05 pm
“Malcolm Fraser?

…

I understand why the guy was an unsuccessful Prime Minister, even if he was before my lifetime.”

He had a fabulous majority and the support of the people to walk back much of the rubbish Comrade Gough, National Gold Nugget, enacted. He had years to do it and some outstanding ministers, but he didn’t. He presided over one of the great wasted opportunities in post WWII politics.

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:05 pm
Too much red cordial at the Canberra Cat Collective meeting?

Nowhere near enough.

Skuter

18 Jan 13 at 11:06 pm
Did anyone see this interview on Aunty with Malcolm Fraser?

Did anyone listen to the collected ‘speeches’ of juliar dullard?

Did anyone extract their own teeth without anaesthetic?

Etc, etc, etc.

FFS.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:07 pm
“Ah, Mick what a treasure you are. At times.”

Ha! I say to you Gabrielle, just Ha!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:09 pm
Teen rioter Omar Halaby gets good behaviour for his role in Muslim protests

Magistrate Pat O’Shane said she expected Halaby had already been counselled within his own community and praised Islamic leaders for condemning the violent protests.

stackja

18 Jan 13 at 11:09 pm
That sounds like the old “90% of illegal guns in Mexico were bought in the USA” trick, which I’m sure you know has been thoroughly debunked.

That still seems to demonstrate that the flow of guns is from the US to Mexico rather than vice-versa. There could be traffic in the other direction but it would be rather odd for people to be smuggling the same sorts of guns in both directions. Perhaps there are some weapons not available in the US that are smuggled from Mexico to the US, but I haven’t seen any stats on that.

Chris

18 Jan 13 at 11:10 pm
Apologies Dan – I take that back, you’ve dished out as much well deserved abuse as anyone.

Rabz, I think Sinclair may be an evil scientist—an evil social scientist—who is observing how people people behave in a laissez-faire world.

Dangph

18 Jan 13 at 11:11 pm
How long is it taking to get rid of Pat O’Shane? Or are they waiting for her to drop off the twig like Lionel Murphy?

She is a national disgrace.

H B Bear

18 Jan 13 at 11:12 pm
Fair enough Chris, I think I missed the point!

Eddystone

18 Jan 13 at 11:13 pm
Isn’t O’Shane under investigation for some of her recent judgments?

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:13 pm
Pat O”Shane is still in business?

entropy

18 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
… a national disgrace.

Thanks Bear,

I’ve just had to edit myself on this very topic.

Sinc wouldn’t have been happy…

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
Did anyone listen to the collected ‘speeches’ of juliar dullard?

Did anyone extract their own teeth without anaesthetic?

Etc, etc, etc.

FFS.

Point taken. I just think the interview highlights the earlier discussion on here about how he would be regarded in the lower third or quarter of the Australian PM’s

Andrew

18 Jan 13 at 11:14 pm
“Unless you really know what you’re doing you should be using your ISP’s mail server to relay your outgoing mail for you”

As I thought would be embarrassingly evident from my questions I’m under no illusions about my IT abilities and do use the default/recommended BigPond server settings.

Tracey

18 Jan 13 at 11:15 pm
He presided over one of the great wasted opportunities in post WWII politics.

As did frigging “BPV” hoWARd…

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:16 pm
Reading about him as well, makes me think that he could be up there with Whitlam, Rudd and the Slapper as Australia’s worst PM’s.

Agree with that, but you also mustn’t forget Billy McMahon, just for shear ineffectiveness. His only redeeming feature being Sonya was much better looking than her successor.

As for best PMs, I am thinking Lyons, Hawke, and Howard in the top three.

entropy

18 Jan 13 at 11:17 pm
shear=sheer. bit woolly this evening.

entropy

18 Jan 13 at 11:17 pm
How many more years will we have to endure Pat O’Shane’s stupidity and incompetence? How long before mandatory retirement for age or FITH syndrome?

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 11:18 pm
“Pat O’Shane? …

She is a national disgrace.”

She was that right from the jump H B Bear. I don’t recall the year she was appointed – about ’85? – but she has been peddling snarling racist hatred and gross errors for the entire period.

She is 72 now and bitter, bitter, bitter. Just what one needs on the bench in a modern society, eh?

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:20 pm
It would be interesting to look at who people regard as Australia’s best PM over our history. Obviously some of the earlier PM’s may become unnoticed, but it would be an interesting poll or discussion.

The first term Hawke/Keating government would be head and shoulders the best in the last 30 years IMO. Hawke had a great depth of ministers and let them get on with it. From what I have read, he made the Cabinet work very effectively – which is really what you want, not this quasi-Presidential situation that seems to have been allowed to develop in Australia.

H B Bear

18 Jan 13 at 11:21 pm
Andrew,

I’m enough of a dinobore to be able to remember what a frigging pompous mediocrity fraser was – but not old enough to vote until 1983, when I voted informal.

They (pantsoff and pissed bobby) just seemed like such vainglorious, sanctimonious ol’ wafflers at the time.

Of absolutely no relevance whatsoever to a teenaged economics student.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:22 pm
MAGISTRATE Pat O’Shane failed to act impartially and treated police prosecutors in a “discourteous, pre-emptory and high-handed” way, a Sydney hearing has been told.

Ms O’Shane, 71, faced the conduct division of the NSW Judicial Commission today in relation to complaints made against her by NSW Attorney-General Greg Smith and police Chief Superintendent Tony Trichter.

Counsel assisting the commission, Jeremy Gormly SC, said the tribunal would hear evidence Ms O’Shane acted in a partial manner in four cases between 2007 and 2012.

Ms O’Shane could be referred to NSW parliament for the consideration of her removal or to the chief magistrate, depending on the findings of the conduct division.

She is due to retire next June when she turns 72.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/magistrate-pat-oshane-not-impartial-hearing-told/story-e6frg6nf-1226539679872

Gab

18 Jan 13 at 11:22 pm
O’Shane faced the conduct division of the NSW Judicial Commission in December and has to retire when she turns 72 in June. I imagine that this Halaby business will be yet another case taken to the Supreme Court for Appeal. By rights she should be fined for each one of her stuff ups.

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 11:26 pm
Rabz,

Clearly you know more about it more than me, not disregarding you at all.

Andrew

18 Jan 13 at 11:26 pm
snap!

Cold-Hands

18 Jan 13 at 11:27 pm
You’d love to appear before O’Shane.

I’d be getting a quick spray tan and donning Fez if I had to.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 11:28 pm
I think Sinclair may be an evil scientist—an evil social scientist—who is observing how people people behave in a laissez-faire world.

Agreed.

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
She is 72 now and bitter, bitter, bitter. Just what one needs on the bench in a modern society, eh?

Fuck it, let’s make her PM. Or maybe our first president.

Skuter

18 Jan 13 at 11:29 pm
As for best PMs, I am thinking Lyons, Hawke, and Howard in the top three.

Surely Menzies would be number one.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:30 pm
You’d love to appear before O’Shane.

Oppressed minority status I is, massah boss ladee!

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:31 pm
I can assure Sinc and all that no red cordial was consumed at tonight’s Canberra Cats meeting. Not a drop.

In fact, we sat around in cracked leather armchairs in front of a roaring fire, puffing on cigars dipped in 60 year old cognac. In between the Chateau Latour and vintage Krug, our central objective, as usual, was to work out new ways of grinding down the poor.

You had to be there.

johanna

18 Jan 13 at 11:31 pm
SDFC:

Good luck JC. I see it it 90 overnight. What’s your target and your stop-loss.

I think it will get to 140 in a few years. The move at the moment is anticipated but the weight of money hasn’t moved through the system yet.

The amount of monetary easing they have to do to get to a 2% inflation target and keep it there is enormous, I think.

Just think $85 billion the US has going nudged inflation expectations from around 1.4% to 1.7%. The japs have a 3% differential as they currently have deflation of around 1% pa. So if you equalize to the size of the US and look at in terms of the US economy… they need to push out:

1.7 – 1.4 = .3

3 divided by .3 = 10

10 x 85 billion = $850 billion. That would be the size in US terms.

US economy is around 15 trillion while japan is around 4.4

So we should be seeing around 250 billion of asset purchases per month there. (4.4/15 x 850 = 250)

JC

18 Jan 13 at 11:32 pm
Alice
Don’t tell porkies. You weren’t banned.
Sinclair said there was a problem with the spam filter.

kae

18 Jan 13 at 11:33 pm
Magistrate Pat O’Shane

’nuff said. Every one of her rulings should be struck from the record.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
“Hawke had a great depth of ministers and let them get on with it. … he made the Cabinet work very effectively”

That is correct H B Bear. Putting prefered political parties and policy crticisms aside for a moment, his Cabinet had confident, capable blokes from all corners of business and many professions. It was a place of serious examination, discussion and review (there is no such place now) and Hawke let that process run and succeed.

He was enormously popular before and during that early period and the great contradiction is that during this time the NSW Right was a case study in party discipline and collective, disciplined action, the Melbourne Left was similarly very powerful yet Hawke led successfully without being a member of either, or any, faction (they did describe his group as Centre Unity but it was a loose and fluid grouping at best).

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
Lyons has to be up there. Menzies too, if not just for longevity. Howard and Hawke can fight it out for third…

Skuter

18 Jan 13 at 11:34 pm
If KRudd proves that anyone can make the top office in the land regardless of competence – and his prime ministership proves exactly that – O’Shane proves that anyone can be a High Court judge and you can make up rulings as you like.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:35 pm
they did describe his group as Centre Unity but it was a loose and fluid grouping at best

Interesting – I was part of the “student unity” faction at Uni, but in reality, only because they had the hotter birds. However, there was the odd hot commie chick…

Rabz

18 Jan 13 at 11:38 pm
Australia has never had a best PM. But what more can you expect of a nation that has Ned Kelly as an icon.

Infidel Tiger

18 Jan 13 at 11:39 pm
In fact, we sat around in cracked leather armchairs in front of a roaring fire, puffing on cigars dipped in 60 year old cognac. In between the Chateau Latour and vintage Krug, our central objective, as usual, was to work out new ways of grinding down the poor.

We also discussed baby meat recipes…

Skuter

18 Jan 13 at 11:39 pm
but in reality, only because they had the hotter birds

I ask you, how many political and social choices have been made for that reason? I once took an elective at uni based solely on the fact the lecturer was extremely easy on the eye.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:42 pm
“at tonight’s Canberra Cats meeting … our central objective, as usual, was to work out new ways of grinding down the poor”

Praise be to Allah the Overseer, johanna, that some of the people here have been doing serious and essential business today!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:43 pm
Australia has never had a best PM. But what more can you expect of a nation that has Ned Kelly as an icon.

There’s more to the Kelly story than Teh Left’s attempts to undermine the legend. Don’t buy into it. He’s up there with the Eureka Stockade (which, BTW, like your assessment of our PM’s, was a pretty lame rebellion but it’s all we’ve got).

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:44 pm
“I was part of the “student unity” faction at Uni, but in reality, only because they had the hotter birds. However, there was the odd hot commie chick”

There’s not a cigarette paper between you and Hawkie then Rabz!

Mick Gold Coast QLD

18 Jan 13 at 11:46 pm
“In fact, we sat around in cracked leather armchairs in front of a roaring fire, puffing on cigars dipped in 60 year old cognac. In between the Chateau Latour and vintage Krug, our central objective, as usual, was to work out new ways of grinding down the poor.

We also discussed baby meat recipes…

Bless you.

John Mc

18 Jan 13 at 11:46 pm
We also discussed baby meat recipes…

Don’t tell me you’ve run out of endangered species?

squawkbox

18 Jan 13 at 11:46 pm
US politician proposes violent video games tax to “help prevent mass shootings”

*sigh*

From the article:

Following the Sandy Hook tragedy, the National Rifle Association wasted no time implicating the video game industry, calling it a “callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.”

*sigh*

That’s the real problem. It’s not so much a case of “First they came for the smokers,” but, “First we sicced them onto the smokers…”

Fleeced

18 Jan 13 at 11:53 pm
BoaB, Tracey

Hawaiian Delight.

Yum!

Now gone.

kae

18 Jan 13 at 11:58 pm
There’s more to the Kelly story than Teh Left’s attempts to undermine the legend. Don’t buy into it.

It was the left that created the Kelly myth.

He was two bit thug. In a just and righteous society we’d build statues of the copper that shot him.

Infidel Tiger

19 Jan 13 at 12:01 am
As for Ice Cream, I’m with Tom. Maggie’s burnt fig, honeycomb and caramel ice cream is the only one.

But at $8 for 0.5 litres, not often!

kae

19 Jan 13 at 12:02 am
Or is it $8.99?

kae

19 Jan 13 at 12:03 am
This what I wrote on Menzies House:

Before you judge Ned Kelly I think you should consider the behaviour of the police, especially in regards to the initial attempt at arrest (I think of Ned Kelly but it might have been his brother) where the constable was drunk and did not have a warrant. You should also consider the underdog nature of being Irish, the inability to advance yourself from the underclass through working, and Ned’s previous act of heroism and attempts to contact the police to open dialogue before the things got out of hand.

You should also consider that when things were out of hand and he was supposedly holding up whole towns, that clearly the population was largely complicit.

He wasn’t an angel but he is an Australian folk hero and embodied a type of Eureka Stockade stand against oppression. Teh Left would try to undermine the legend because they don’t like people who do that.

John Mc

19 Jan 13 at 12:03 am
New Thead

Fleeced

19 Jan 13 at 12:05 am
In a hundred years hopefully young Aussie kiddies are celebrating the life and times of Carl Williams just as we celebrate Ned.

Infidel Tiger

19 Jan 13 at 12:07 am
The Spirit of ANZAC gets replaced with the Spirit of Underbelly!

John Mc

19 Jan 13 at 12:10 am
Best icy pole for the heat is a Lime Splice.

As for this old ex-pube, it’s winter here and a top if 20 C. Enjoying the sun as I smoke a Diplomatico No.2 and sip a cognac.

As you were.

Abu Chowdah

19 Jan 13 at 12:11 am
In a hundred years hopefully young Aussie kiddies are celebrating the life and times of Carl Williams just as we celebrate Ned.

Close… the biggest crooks atm are the ALP, and no doubt history will be re-written by the left to make them a much loved, progressive, yadda yadda yadda… oh, I can’t even finish this thought without throwing up – never mind.

Fleeced

19 Jan 13 at 12:18 am
Best cooler is make your own by sticking a tongue depressor in a placcy cup and filling it with mango juice and pulp, and a couple of passionfruit.
Freeze the shit out of it overnight.
Yum.

Winston Smith

19 Jan 13 at 12:48 am
Where am I gonna get a tongue depresser?

I had trouble getting a butterfly thingy to go on the end of a syringe for pollinating frangis.

Oh, Winston, you should see the frangis I have now!

kae

19 Jan 13 at 12:51 am
For anyone interested:

MOOC List
A complete list of Massive Open Online Courses (free online courses) offered by the best universities and entities:

Microeconomics for Managers (Early 2013)

University / Entity:

University of California, Irvine

Instructors:

Richard McKenzie

Categories:

Economics & Finance

Next Session:
Jan 21st 2013 (10 weeks long)
Workload: 6-8 hours/week

This course is designed to introduce students to basic microeconomic theory at a relatively rapid pace without the use of complicated mathematics. The focus will be on fundamental economic principles that can be used by managers to think about business problems, including those that arise from coordinating workers and managers inside firms and from dealing with outside market forces and government policies.

JamesK

19 Jan 13 at 7:39 pm
Where am I gonna get a tongue depresser?

Buy an ice lolly

JamesK

19 Jan 13 at 7:40 pm

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