David Henderson corrects a politician:
It is heartening that Democratic Party strategist Bill Carrick recognizes the somewhat libertarian shift in the Western U.S. electorate (“West Taking Sharp Left Turn,” Jan. 27.) But one quote from Carrick shows a basic misunderstanding of libertarian views and principles.
Carrick states, “The libertarian thing is no longer about property rights or gun rights. It’s now about letting people live their lives as they choose.”
On the contrary, the libertarian “thing” has always been about letting people live their lives as they choose. And their right to use their property as they choose and to defend themselves with guns is still part of that.
Yeah, liberty is no longer about free markets, small government and quiet enjoyment. It’s now all about Hyper large government and free birth control and a prescription for hooch.
The new freedom sucks arse.
Infidel Tiger
1 Feb 13 at 9:53 am
Leaving me alone involves not paying excessive taxes, interfering with start up business plans and not subsidising lifestyle choices I don’t support.
The left co-opt any good names and fuck them up.
There is no such thing as a left (or right wing) libertarian. There are libertarians and they are somewhat in league with libertarian leaning conservatives.
.
1 Feb 13 at 9:57 am
I’m told that some “Libertarians” voted for the Democrats and Obama last election as they are more afraid of conservatives with morals and values than politicians who who keenly respect the democratic process like this guy who make decisions like this in cities dominated by the Democrat Party.
Sounds like sound a “Libertarian” viewpoint. One aleged “Libertarian” made this statement on why he prefers people like Villaraigosa:
Token
1 Feb 13 at 10:10 am
More tolerance and sensible decisions that every “Libertarian” who holds this viewpoint would endorse:
After all, the left would not black-ball a person with a lifetime of good work for a statement made 15-20 years before, would they?
I trust the faux-Libertarian will be muttering some claptrap about irony or some such now…
Token
1 Feb 13 at 10:19 am
You’re starting to repeat your passive-aggressive comments, Token.
You’re also completely misrepresenting my statement. I gave an opinion about why other people – Yobbo’s libertarian friends in America – might consider the Democrats the lesser evil when confronted with people who think certain liberties are sinful and therefore uncompromisable.
But please, keep on being wrong. You’re so good at it.
Jarrah
1 Feb 13 at 10:28 am
Really? Like the freedom to keep arms? Like the freedom to keep the profit’s of ones efforts? Like the freedom to smoke and drink (not just do drugs)? Like the freedom to build on ones own property? Like freedom of association or the freedom to discriminate and hold an opinion that others might not like to hear?
Yeah, the democrats are REALLY the side that want to protect people’s freedoms. The Republican’s aren’t great, but your claim is just plain ridiculous.
MattR
1 Feb 13 at 10:52 am
I hate anal sex among men and lefty adultery sucks. I will tell people these things all the time. But I don’t want there to be any laws about such things. That is the Conservative way. Any so-called liberatrtian who thinks different needs to be kicked in the balls, if he has any.
Rococo Liberal
1 Feb 13 at 11:08 am
You made a stupid statement. I produced evidence on why the statements were stupid.
Sounds like you are defensive as you do not have the ability to be honest and admit you are wrong.
Who is being passive agressive?
Token
1 Feb 13 at 11:12 am
“Really? Like the freedom to keep arms? Like the freedom to keep the profit’s of ones efforts? Like the freedom to smoke and drink (not just do drugs)? Like the freedom to build on ones own property? Like freedom of association or the freedom to discriminate and hold an opinion that others might not like to hear?”
No, I presume none of those. You’ll have to ask Yobbo for specifics.
“The Republican’s aren’t great, but your claim is just plain ridiculous.”
It’s not my claim, it’s Yobbo’s.
Jarrah
1 Feb 13 at 11:14 am
“You made a stupid statement. I produced evidence on why the statements were stupid.”
No, I didn’t and you didn’t.
“Who is being passive agressive?”
You are.
Jarrah
1 Feb 13 at 11:16 am
I can see one of your lefty fruitbat tanties coming on, go share it with your soul mates at Quiggin’s place.
Token
1 Feb 13 at 11:31 am
The whole notion of freedom was subverted post-war into a kind of free-for-all soft-pedal guerilla warfare against … well, anything. Authority, uniforms, democracy, white dead males, rules, police, you name it.
The original notion was to protect the basic economic unit – the family – from interference so it could grow and thrive in order that the government didn’t have to take over. The government was busy enough doing things the individual economic unit did not have the scale to do – such as building railroads and dams and keeping nutcases off the streets so they couldn’t run around shooting people’s children.
All the rest is just fiddling about with definitions and petulant rights-trading.
ilibcc
1 Feb 13 at 11:37 am
I would love if Yobbo can explain how his “Libertarian” mates endorse an administration that shows no remorse for the death of its employees due to their negligence and arrests a film maker to cover their incompetence.
Token
1 Feb 13 at 11:37 am
The libertarian thing is no longer about property rights or gun rights. It’s now about letting people live their lives as they choose.”
It’s an extraordinarily ignorant statement, but a politician made it so no surprises. What’s interesting is what folllows:
There’s no real reasoning in the piece about why the anti-tax drift of the West as resulted in a shift to the more social aspects of libertarianism. But the gist is that the West has been alienated by the GOP’s views on migration, sex and drugs.
I hate anal sex among men and lefty adultery sucks
So anal sex among women and adultery between conservatives is alright then?
The original notion was to protect the basic economic unit – the family – from interference so it could grow and thrive in order that the government didn’t have to take over.
And where did this ‘notion’ originate? Examples?
Adrien
1 Feb 13 at 11:52 am
I saw an episode of one of that police show NCIS while O/S and getting ready for bed. The bad guys were these sect with a charismatic leader of the Jim Jones type (including rehearsals for mass suicides), invoking the name of Jesus and God at every turn. The sect had been taken over from a previous leader in prison for paedophilia.
The police and FBI referred to these people throughout as ‘Libertarians’.
Toiling Mass
1 Feb 13 at 11:56 am
Jim Jones was a socialist, by the way. That’s not something you hear about too often.
Dangph
1 Feb 13 at 12:09 pm
I’m told that some “Libertarians” voted for the Democrats and Obama last election as they are more afraid of conservatives with morals and values…
Token you’re such a tape recording.
The idea that politicians who spout morals and values actually practice those morals and values is more than a little silly. Them ‘family values’ Republicans seriously considered Newt Gingrich as presidential candidate.
The candidate they actually boosted was very fond of rolling out the latest bugaboo and spruiking increases in spending on what the US government laughingly calls ‘defense’. He waxed lyrical about the Greatest Generation most of whom bear a healthy skepticism of the virtues of staff generals and other armchair hawks and going to war in general.
And wait a minute, for all his flag waving let’s remember that the dude in question, when he was of age, and the there was a war that he supported – didn’t go!
Now please don’t roll out Bill Clinton’s greasy and dishonourable play in that war ’cause I think he’s a snake too.
Adrien
1 Feb 13 at 12:10 pm
Everyone has a list of ‘sinful liberties’ – what is on it depends on their worldview.
Ellen of Tasmania
1 Feb 13 at 12:21 pm
Adrien, what are you muttering about? Are you saying that people of principle are wrong because they hold real values?
Good to know we agree on that. Will this statement about Michelle Bauchman and Barney Frank, people who are said to hold extreme and intransigent views from Democrat & Republican Party (but seem to be very ethical)?
Token
1 Feb 13 at 12:22 pm
RL, gee, perhaps I’m showing my age, but I recall some conservative governments keeping homosexual sex acts illegal for many years. That’s the conservative way. The libertarian way is a different thing.
AS for voting Dem or GOP, if you are a libertarian and you look at the likely effect of electing one or the other, perhaps it is a difficult choice. Different people will have different priorities among the general spread of libertarian policies.
I’ve read a few attemped justifications of “liberaltarian”, which I thought lame, but it shows the variety of views around.
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 12:26 pm
It’s the new liberty – Interfere with my life as much as you like, but in return I demand the right to let anyone and everyone interfere with my rectum.
Getting your rocks off is fun, but libertarians have been hoodwinked.
Infidel Tiger
1 Feb 13 at 12:46 pm
IT, I guess you can find lots of instances of recognised libertarians selling out the general principles for a bit of bum action?
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 12:51 pm
I bloody haven’t.
Anyone who thinks equality before the law regarding sex is predicated on socialism was a socialist anyway or is a gullible, stupid kid.
.
1 Feb 13 at 12:53 pm
Pedro, all these supposed libertarians who think liberty begins and ends with sexual freedom are menaces.
Imagine voting for a hyper government douchebag like Obama on the spurious grounds that Romney was going to blacklist your vagina or penis? These people are unthinking whackjobs who are too scared to come out of the closet and call themselves what they really are: Leftist filth.
Infidel Tiger
1 Feb 13 at 12:55 pm
IT, I asked the question because I read pretty widely and I just don’t remember being overwhelmed by the number of libertarians who want to sell their soul for their bottom.
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 12:58 pm
Well, polling results from the US election show that libertarians broke for Obama because they like free birth control, government sponsored abortion and prescription hooch and they were deadly scared Romney was going to monitor their bedroom antics.
Yobbo, claimed that his American “libertarian” friends all felt the same way. That’s cool, but there’s a little bit more to life than attending a gang bang and getting the taxpayer to pick up your guilt free abortifacents later.
Infidel Tiger
1 Feb 13 at 1:02 pm
You’ve got to love a Libertarian that thinks being able to get pot on demand and marry your gay lover is more important than a government that locks up morons that makes films no-one watches.
Token
1 Feb 13 at 1:08 pm
No, you actually have to go to a doctor, get a prescriptions and then go through a whole bunch of rigmarole. Far from being libertarian it’s yet another massive expansion of the state.
It’s more leftist trickery.
Infidel Tiger
1 Feb 13 at 1:10 pm
IT, I haven’t seen the poll results you mention, but there is fuck all libertarians anyway so I’m not sure polling will be too accurate. I expect yobbo’s poll is even less likely to be statistically significant.
Token, do you think it possible that these putative libertarians discounted the arrist of the film guy as an issue on the grounds that the GOP also contains fascistic types? There’s worse anyway, Obama personally ordered the killing of a US citizen. That’s as bad as it gets in my book.
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 1:13 pm
Here is an example of a smart guy finding it hard to accept pigeon-holing. FWIW, I suspect I put a higher value on individualism and non-coercion, but a reasonable person can see where he is coming from.
http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/01/why-im-not-a-bleeding-heart-libertarian/
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 1:15 pm
Here’s another good discussion
http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/02/will-wilkinson-calls-ron-paul
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 1:20 pm
Will this statement about Michelle Bauchman and Barney Frank, people who are said to hold extreme and intransigent views from Democrat & Republican Party (but seem to be very ethical)?
Will this statement what?
The use of government position to enrich one’s self is, unfortunately a long-standing practice in the US. In colonial times governors were appointed so they could obtain wealth thru their positions. There were no bones made about this. The partisan culture simply exacerbates this. When Clinton’s rents out rooms in the White House the GOP and their fans might make a noise but Bubbah don’t worry about that ’cause they don’t vote for him anyway.
When GOP allies fly to Iraq and start charging the US Army paymaster general for dodgy stuff do the small govt Republicans complain? No. Not even when the officer in charge of the paymaster general is shafted by the Administration for trying to stop the graft.
Are you saying that people of principle are wrong because they hold real values?
No. Learn to read. I’m saying these people are wrong and the values they hold are no such thing. It’s a waste of energy trying to explain this to you of course. You completely ignore the fatal hypocrisy of a presidential candidate bangin’ on about the flag who avoided service.
These people hold real values alright but not the ones they espouse:
If we bore that in mind we would not get a government that was honest but we would probably get one that wasn’t so successful a thief.
Adrien
1 Feb 13 at 1:21 pm
IT, turning an illegal drug into a prescription drug is not a massive increase in the state.
Pedro
1 Feb 13 at 1:22 pm
BushHitler was not given a free run by the US media to use drone strikes to kill hundreds including US citizens gone bad.
BushHitler was condemned for keeping Gitmo open.
Libertarians should be more concerned over the lack of oversight of the Democrats by the media.
Token
1 Feb 13 at 1:27 pm
Pedro, ‘liberal’ governments were quite happy to retain sodomy laws as well. And in Vic, it was a conservative government that removed them.
dover_beach
1 Feb 13 at 1:29 pm
Answer this question
Token
1 Feb 13 at 1:32 pm
Trouble with Liberts is they fall to bits where money is concerned.
They all take their Pensions and govt allowances etc.
You can’t be a proper Libert unless you’re self funded and living on no one else’s thieved work product…..
Alfonso
1 Feb 13 at 2:16 pm
What the fuck was that gibberish meant to mean Al(ice)fonso? On the turps early today son?
.
1 Feb 13 at 2:24 pm
Ah Null…. you have the smell of one living off the taxpayer, in Libert splendour no doubt….stick to optional helmets for independent freedom loving loving bikies until someone else has to pay for the neurosurgery…..a philosophy that is a summary of the LDP.
Alfonso
1 Feb 13 at 2:40 pm
I’m pretty sure libertarians wouldn’t be big supporters of government-mandated socialised medicine.
sdog
1 Feb 13 at 2:59 pm
FTFY. Amirite?
sdog
1 Feb 13 at 3:05 pm
Token – Answer this question
What question? You’ve quoted two of my sentences neither of which is a question.
Adrien
1 Feb 13 at 4:39 pm
No, you’re lying….and I’m a taxpayer.
I have private health insurance. I wear a helmet during my cycling training. I pay for it all.
Go fuck yourself.
No, it’s the summary that your confused, fuckbrained mind makes – and glorifies the Liberal party of a too gutless to attack Abbot and a bungling “bestiality” Cory Bernadi.
.
1 Feb 13 at 4:53 pm
Bicycles? No wussy, motorbikes.
Now tell your ins. co. you be a Libert who isn’t wearing a helmet no more. See how that private ins. works out then, possum.
The LDP lusts after helmet free motorbike riding, the easily avoided frequent medical results of which I would pay for.The Libert party are no better than socialists, their lifestyle choices mean spread the risk to the unwilling taxpayer.
Alfonso
1 Feb 13 at 6:22 pm
It’s kind of cute that you think people calling for the end of the war on drugs are only doing so because they are themselves potheads.
What is the rationale behind Christians being so anti-drugs that are not mentioned in the bible and were freely available in society until the mid-1900s?
Yobbo
1 Feb 13 at 10:06 pm
Fuckhead. You’re an offensive moron on par with drug fucked, generational trailer trash.
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2 Feb 13 at 11:27 am