Catallaxy Files

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Important stuff at Jo Nova

36 comments

A very important study of the effects of forests on climate has cast more doubt on central features of climate alarmism.

And a comprehensive review, with pics of wind turbine failures. Not to be missed!

Written by Poor Old Rafe

February 3rd, 2013 at 7:32 am

Posted in Uncategorized

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36 Responses to 'Important stuff at Jo Nova'

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  1. I recall reading a paper about 30 years ago that documented a substantial reduction in rainfall, almost along the fenceline, between uncleared mallee and cleared wheat paddocks.

    Biota

    3 Feb 13 at 8:21 am

  2. Which led to the fantastic Retraction Watch website. A must-see for medical people with too much faith in their own well-paid magnificence.

    Paul

    3 Feb 13 at 8:40 am

  3. Do I read you right Paul? That Retraction Watch has been around since before the commercial internet?

    Biota

    3 Feb 13 at 8:56 am

  4. Paul has now retracted his earlier statement.

    You can read his full retraction in a 30 year old blog on the Retraction Watch website.

    Up The Workers!

    3 Feb 13 at 9:19 am


  5. I recall reading a paper about 30 years ago that documented a substantial reduction in rainfall, almost along the fenceline, between uncleared mallee and cleared wheat paddocks.


    It is a strong belief in rural circles that rainfall is always higher at the met station in town than it is on the properties that surround it. Of course, the people that say this are after a hand out helping hand, but I sometimes wonder if there is some truth in it.

    After all, if you were a a pioneer trapsing out into the empty outback to set up a pub, wouldn’t you pick the most favoured site in the district?

    Entropy

    3 Feb 13 at 9:45 am

  6. Entropy, town generally has a few more trees too.

    Biota

    3 Feb 13 at 9:47 am

  7. The bloke across the road and down two houses from me always has more rain in his gauge than the rest of us.

    It’s always hotter or colder there, too.

    Not sure what that phenomenon is.

    kae

    3 Feb 13 at 9:59 am

  8. This sounds like the stuff Andrews and Ripl bang on about in Back to the Brink and Beyond the Brink.

    The cooling capacity of an adult willow tree for example is something like 16 full house sized air conditioners.

    .

    3 Feb 13 at 10:22 am

  9. Another thing: a few years ago on catallaxy we were wondering what should happen to the funds collected by a carbon tax.

    I said tax cuts and planting trees.

    The cost of a tree is 5 c but the all up cost for land, water and planting is 45 c.

    For every $9 bn, you could plant 20 billion trees.

    Another issue that Andrews and Ripl bang on about is “green surface area”.

    They say that integrated low irrigation, low till (and no herbicidal) farming increases green surface area, and this has the same effect as increased forestry – although not as effective it can be grown in six months to two years.

    Then again the carbon mitigation of deep rooted, no till, mixed pasture and cereal cropping has been advocated by green minded farmers for a while.

    The ability to mitigate a significant proportion of CO2 output (at no cost to the taxpayer) and increase pasture productivity ought to be encouraged.

    The way forward here is to remove any subsidies to agriculture. Farmers have already embraced no till/burn, even wheat farmers in former rice growing areas.

    .

    3 Feb 13 at 10:30 am

  10. Isn’t this just Say’s Law? Supply of trees creating it own demand for water.

    Samuel J

    3 Feb 13 at 10:40 am

  11. The bloke across the road and down two houses from me always has more rain in his gauge than the rest of us.

    It’s always hotter or colder there, too.

    Not sure what that phenomenon is.

    Sounds like a siting issue to me.

    brc

    3 Feb 13 at 10:47 am

  12. Another desperate attempt to disrupt true science. No wonder there’s resistance from real scientists to this ridiculous rubbish. It shouldn’t have been published.

    It’s just a cult thing. Best to ignore it.

    hammygar

    3 Feb 13 at 10:57 am

  13. Spending good money to plant trees is a total waste (specific landscaping projects excepted). Trees are weeds. All that is required is for stock to be kept off and/or to reduce burn-offs.

    One only has to look at grazing properties that the owners have walked away from or to observe what happens to ‘farmlets’ subdivided from a previously productive property.

    The decline in traditional Aboriginal burn-offs has also resulted in increased forestation. The Cape York savannah woodlands are now thick scrub.

    Steve of Ferny Hills

    3 Feb 13 at 11:02 am

  14. I think you mean Eucalypts are weeds.

    “The decline in traditional Aboriginal burn-offs has also resulted in increased forestation. The Cape York savannah woodlands are now thick scrub”

    Central Australia used to be forested with cycads – until firestick farming burned that down.

    It’s not PC but firestick farming changed our ecology for the worse.

    .

    3 Feb 13 at 11:08 am

  15. A project to plant trees across the deserts may be called for. If for no other reason then to watch the Green heads explode as they try to process the competing desires to worship trees and to protect the pristine desert landscapes.

    Tim

    3 Feb 13 at 11:15 am

  16. It’s not just Eucalypts. Rainforest trees are more agressive than Eucalypts and will displce them provided they do not suffer regular burning. Fires do not enter rainforests but do kill trees at the margins thus reducing the area of rainforest over time.

    Now that the cane farms to the south of Cairns have been replaced by housing, rainforest is quickly recolonising the lower slopes of the surrounding hills.

    Previouly, cane fires regularly escaped into the foothills.

    Steve of Ferny Hills

    3 Feb 13 at 11:21 am

  17. watch the Green heads explode as they try to process the competing desires to worship trees and to protect the pristine desert landscapes

    Maybe. The rapid change in Cape York which is causing the decline of savannah fauna hasn’t worried them. Greenies aren’t big on history which is why they’re so excited by global warming.

    Steve of Ferny Hills

    3 Feb 13 at 11:28 am

  18. The Ham is in full trolling mode.
    Dressed up in his dear old Dud’s suit, ca 1952, this arbiter of scientists gives us his thoughtful and informed judgement. You can just tell he understands science..

    James of the Glens

    3 Feb 13 at 11:43 am

  19. Our poor old greenfilther hammyracist. His favourite $cam is falling apart all around him, so all he can do is deny the science.

    So sad.

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Feb 13 at 12:14 pm

  20. Bwhahahahahahaaa…

    Classic.

    I participated in “expert review” of the Second Order Draft of AR5 (the next IPCC report), Working Group 1 (“The Scientific Basis”), and am now making the full draft available to the public. I believe that the leaking of this draft is entirely legal, that the taxpayer funded report is properly in the public domain under the Freedom of Information Act, and that making it available to the public is in any case protected by established legal and ethical standards, but web hosting companies are not in the business of making such determinations so interested readers are encouraged to please download copies of the report for further dissemination in case this content is removed as a possible terms-of-service violation. My reasons for leaking the report are explained below. Here are the chapters:

    “Even after the IPCC acknowledges extensive evidence for … solar forcing beyond what they included in their models, they still make no attempt to account for this omission in their predictions. … It’s insane.”…

    ‘A leaked report by a United Nations’ group dedicated to climate studies says that heat from the sun may play a larger role than previously thought.
    “[Results] do suggest the possibility of a much larger impact of solar variations on the stratosphere than previously thought, and some studies have suggested that this may lead to significant regional impacts on climate,” reads a draft copy of a major, upcoming report from the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).’

    So, even the thieving corruptocrats of the UN are being forced to admit reality.

    But not dear old hammyracist. Oh no. He’s swallowed the old lies and propaganda and will continue to deny the science even when the UNPCC folds on the issue.

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Feb 13 at 12:25 pm

  21. Stereotypical hot Russian scientist.

    I recall a previous publication of hers regarding storms and upper air currents which the establishment didn’t want to publish despite all the maths adding up. When the rain drops out it creates a partial-void which the surrounding air rushes into.

    Harold

    3 Feb 13 at 12:26 pm

  22. So much for expensive direct action. Looks quite cheap.

    blogstrop

    3 Feb 13 at 12:34 pm

  23. Nay moment now, hammyracist will be railing viciously about non-white people and linking to white supremacist, truther and UFO sites.

    All for the greenfilth-AGW cause of course.

    Wonder how he’ll work in the ‘international Jewish Conspiracy’ and the blood libel? They always do, racist lefties.

    C’mon, you racist dirtbag, you know you want to… so muuuuuuuuch.

    Mk50 of Brisbane

    3 Feb 13 at 12:42 pm

  24. Channel into Lake Eyre. Plant trees. Employ aboriginals?

    blogstrop

    3 Feb 13 at 1:00 pm

  25. Hammy is a non-person and shoul be treated as such.

    blogstrop

    3 Feb 13 at 1:01 pm

  26. Harold, it’s that paper that’s now been published with added clarification. The basics that you describe remain. Empirically sensible but needed a theoretical framework which is what the paper presents.

    Biota

    3 Feb 13 at 1:20 pm

  27. blogstrop – that’s what I was thinking, somehow that devious genius Abbott turned out to be right again & planting a big bunch more trees would indeed help.

    Just need trees to be GM to be fire resistant, add a borax gene or something.

    Chris M

    3 Feb 13 at 1:32 pm

  28. Rafe – where do I go to see the cooked wind turbine pics?

    Also I thought something like this happened around Mt Kilimanjaro – didn’t they strip a lot of trees in the immediate area and the temp went up, the rainfall reduced and the snow melted? More proof of ‘global warming’ of course, just need a carbon tax to cure that.

    Chris M

    3 Feb 13 at 1:35 pm

  29. Idiots. They’ve known for a long time that forests have historically grown and withdrawn, without human intervention.

    It never occurred to any alarmists that this could be a factor? I guess it never fit the narrative.

    The Beer Whisperer

    3 Feb 13 at 2:56 pm

  30. Where are the one billion trees Bob Hawke promised to plant in 1989? How much did that waste cost?

    Steve of Ferny Hills

    3 Feb 13 at 2:56 pm

  31. “Another desperate attempt to disrupt true science.”

    True science? Sounds like religion to me.

    Hammy funny. His trolling is too absurd for him to possibly believe it. Could he be a conservative spoofing lefties with tongue firmly in cheek?

    Who are you, Hammy, really?

    The Beer Whisperer

    3 Feb 13 at 2:59 pm

  32. Over at Judith Curry’s not everyone is supportive of it, claims it passed review despite being flawed.

    Harold

    3 Feb 13 at 3:04 pm

  33. Jo Nova, and warmists in general, are like some clapped-out old hippie who won’t stop singing ‘Kumbaya’.

    The Old and Unimproved Dave

    3 Feb 13 at 3:04 pm

  34. “I recall reading a paper about 30 years ago that documented a substantial reduction in rainfall, almost along the fenceline, between uncleared mallee and cleared wheat paddocks.”

    It has been theorized that the Mayan civilization collapsed during a 50 year drought. Or it could have been the production-line human sacrifices.

    Probably both. They probably sought more sacrifices as droughts dragged on. The hypothesis makes sense though – a relationship between vegetation and evaporation with trees presumably evaporating a whole lot more. Heating land sucks in colder air above seas as hot air rises from heating land.

    Climate is complex. Who’da thunk it??

    The Beer Whisperer

    3 Feb 13 at 3:10 pm

  35. “I would have said Australia is a desert because of the global climate cycles, but if you do the calculations, a forest across the surface of Australia would produce forces strong enough to water it and you wouldn’t need to irrigate.”
    Sheil said.

    Hmmmmm

    Grey

    3 Feb 13 at 5:25 pm

  36. “I would have said Australia is a desert because of the global climate cycles…”

    I understood it was largely desert due to Aborigines repeatedly burning the bush down. Not from ABC news this info of course.

    Chris M

    3 Feb 13 at 9:44 pm

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