Here is a photo of the corrupt and tyrannical President of Argentina, Cristina Kirchner, thinking she has all the cards against the Cardinal Archbishop of Buenos Aires. She could never contemplate that this pesky priest would one day be far more well known, respected and powerful than Signora Kirchner herself.
I’ve been trying to look more into this “social debt” issue the new Pope raised in 2009, and it seems like more leftish economic nonsense. The idea seems to be that anyone who loses out even temporarily in times of economic change is owed a debt by those who make out well because of the change, that those who are unemployed are owed a job, etc.
Trying to find out more about “social debt” on Google has so far just led me down a rabbit-warren of South-American leftist paranoia that makes the Agenda 21 conspiracy theory seem tame by comparison – and praises the (former) leadership of Chavez and Castro in resisting western CIA imperialism in favour of bolivarian anti-market reform.
Politicians have tried to manipulate various Popes. I am not aware of any politicians succeeding for a long period.
Not sure if this is true but seems to sum up Popes and politicians.
Except the fool is a certified CAGWarmist. It’s probably a thumbsucking Jesuit thing.
Wow, check the splendour of that room. The Argies were loaded*. Once. How’s that social justice workin’ out for ya, guys?
*in a wealthy, non-drunk way
An awful lot of praise from one side and condemnation from the other side, and so little real evidence of anything at all as yet.
I thought they still had elections over there?
When Argentina redefined marriage to include same-sex unions, he urged people not to be “naive” about it and attributed the move to the devil.
“We’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God,” he said. “We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.” Cardinal Bergoglio also said “we should be conscious that people cannot receive Holy Communion” if they support abortion and euthanasia.
As a result, the reaction Wednesday from Argentine President Cristina Fernandez, who called the cardinal’s remarks “really reminiscent of the times of the Inquisition,” was somewhat muted. Her office released a terse letter congratulating the new pope and wishing him “fruitful pastoral work.
I've heard elsewhere that it was a 2 line official 'letter of congratulation' from the president of the nation that gave the world the first Argentine pope.The letter to Bergoglio was terse, cold and distant: “It is our desire, now that you have taken over the leadership and guidance of the Church, that you have a fruitful pastoral role in carrying out the major task of the pursuit of justice, equality, fraternity and peace in humanity. I extend to Your Holiness my consideration and respect.”
Indeed, but that doesn’t mean that her regime isn’t corrupt and tyrannical. After all, even Stalin conducted elections. She is not as bad as Chavez was though at impoverishing her people and lining her pockets.
Around the turn of the 19th/20th Centuries, apparently.
Nearing the same prosperity levels as Oz, who was at the top of the league table.
There was even a bunch of Oz commies who left and headed to Argentinea where they established a marxist proletarian utopia.
Needless to say, it all turned to shit.
Who’da thunk it?
Robert Crew,
Interesting anecdote concerning His Holiness – and I would start by having a close look at Perfessor John Quiggin’s idea of decommodifying labour as a partial answer to understanding the Pope’s understanding of ‘social debt’. Quiggin’s points can be sourced from Sinc.’s earlier post on the bad start thingy.
I have not studied the idea of “decommodifying” in depth, having only gleaned its meaning from a casual scan of Wikipedia, but the idea is firmly fixed in the labour theory of value which I had thought was on its death bed; how wrong I am.
Mind you, a predilection for the labour theory of value could only be sustained on the prior belief of creatio ex nihilo, or getting something for nothing.
Argentina – the only country in history that’s been relegated from being considered a developed economy back to developing. They should be so proud.
It took the good part of a century, though. Which should give us all hope when we despair at the actions of the Gillards and Obamas of this world. They won’t be around all that long, and there’s a lot of ruin in a nation. We aren’t running up against a deadline to right the ship. Not that we should delay, but we have some breathing space. Which is why I’m not so worried about Obama’s victory. Yes it makes fixing a post-Obama America that much more difficult, but it’s still possible.
Robert Crew
My grandfather studies economics 9and got a degree0 via correspondence back in about 1950.
Unfortunately he was one of the self taught/isolated/crank variety.
He spent a lot of time on something called “Douglas social credit”, which, from my limitd reading was assigning “extra” value to certain socialy more valuable jobs/activities.
I wonder how closely this social debt thing is to that?
Social credit, in my personal view, is the idea that an individual adds value to society by existing, and doing something that could be interpreted as adding to society’s well-being.
Boiled down to its essentials it means how to quantify nothing, for that is what the theory of labour value implies.
(The assumption is that individuals have only one sale item in the market – their labour – which is to be then decommodified by policy so that someone who creates nothing, is entitled to something; this is, of course, a variation of Creatio ex Nihilo.
Wanna bet, Samuel? I worked with a dude whose brother is now the foreign minister for that rathole. When he was appointed the one I knew was given special status to set up a lending firm receiving preferential treatment from the central bank.
Argentina is now so corrupt that it makes the time of the generals appear lilly white.
We’re not that far off here by the way.
He started as a Chemist, not an economist. He didn’t become a chemist. He knows little of economies. He trained as a priest, not an entrpreneur. He didn’t become an entrpreneur. He knows little of business. He seems to have become a capable priest, focusing on people and their souls. He seems to be quite comfortable with the poor and the ordinary. Why not just focus on that.
Amfortas,
But the ways of the world are that His Holiness represents over 1 billion souls, many of whom wield political power. By this alone means the focus moves from the local pastoral to the global political.
Yes, Louis, it does. But we all need to await the evidence of his actions. Most politicians and CEOs get a few month’s grace to show their mettle. And he is in the Grace biz.
Rabs was that Argentine or Paraguay? William Lane took some Aussies to new Australia in Paraguay.
Amfortas,
So we wait, then.
In the meantime the game remains in play.
How come everything on the ABC about the Pope takes around three words to mention his “views on gay rights and abortion”.
It’s about time someone said “Well, he’s the Pope and you’re a common reporter…………..and if you’re not Catholic don’t worry about it”.
Yes, Louis, we wait. Useful inactivity. We await evidence. Speculation leads to fear and loathing where it may be counter-productive.
This pope’s idea of social justice is personal and church oriented not state oriented.
The Pope may (and indeed should) preach a moral obligation for Catholics to help those less fortunate than themselves, but there is also a moral obligation incumbent upon the receiver, to make the best use of the charity given and to seek to improve themselves.
The problem arises when it becomes a legal obligation – with no strings attached. This is the way the West is going with its state “charity”, and the only path there is downhill.
In view of the marriage law change I think it is spelt Pair ‘o Gays, not Paraguay
Not quite… Zimbabwe went from being reasonably first world to a backward shithole in a much shorter space of time. I’d still be vigilant…
Setka…I read ‘Sobotka’
Yes. There is a great difference between charity and welfare.
Charity comes at a cost to both the giver and the receiver, and has benefits for both.
Welfare comes with no attributable cost, and has negative consequences for the one stolen from and the one given to.
Samuel – I think you’re just jealous that the corrupt and tyrannical Argentinian PM looks hot and our version of the same is ah….. not.
Got it in one Chris M.
In one.
mmmmmmm that is one biiiig desk she’s got there.
Kirchner’s regime or pedo-central: they’re both institutions of evil, so big deal.
Social credit seems to be a system which suggests profit (as money paid for loan of capital) is immoral, and should be credited to the workers (as additional money for labour), where social debt seems more about compensating the losers of any restructuring. Are there any Spanish speakers out there who can find and translate Seminario : las deudas sociales de nuestro tiempo : la deuda social según la doctrina de la iglesia [Seminar : social debts of our time : the social debt according to the doctrine of the church]?
Kirchner’s regime or pedo-central: they’re both institutions of evil, so big deal.
The thing in bold makes you a libellous piece of filth, Bragg. You’re just lucky the Church tends not to sue over these things and has stopped killing people for them (unlike the Stone-Age cretins from the Middle East whose metaphorical arses the invertebrate Left delights in licking on a regular basis). Fuck off and don’t come back.
Bronson, it may indeed have been “Pair o’ gays”, not Argentinea.
Saw a documentary on the descendents many moons ago.
She cannot be corrupt and tyrannical, as she is a woman. It is grossly unfair to say such things about this woman. You are only saying it because she is a woman. etc etc etc.
Did I get that right? Isnt that the ‘leader of the country is only criticised because she is a woman’ Labor line?
Yes, like does attract like. Some people, non catholics of course, say tyranny volunteered to enter materiality because our spiritual development requires lessons and lesser love couldn’t bear to hurt us. Others say evil does exist, it sees itself as God and punishes those who disagree. So we can either thank the Jesuits or condemned them but what we cannot do is deny their crimes against humanity.
Don’t forget spiritual tyranny.
Bragg you illiterate fuckstick, why would you bring the ALP into a thread about the new Pope and his country of origin?
Chris M – your comment about the looks of the Argentinian PM and our PM is unnecessary. Limit your comment to their policies, ok?
Zims was the bread basket of Africa, once.
Only individuals can have crimes committed on them.
Humanity could if it were an alien invasion.
Pope Francis calls for “a poor church for the poor”.
A poor church?……this bloke wants to watch his back and get a food taster…..that’s not in the Curia’s business plan at all, at all.
She’s wearing a lovely blouse (for a dictator).
Our PM’s dress sense is on the same level as her political sense.
“a poor church for the poor” or “It was then that I thought of St Francis. And then I thought of wars and about peace and that’s how the name came to me – a man of peace, a poor man … and how I would like a church of the poor, for the poor.”