Childcare: the new protection racket

I was reading an article in the SMH about the large number of childcare centres missing targets on the road to the ridiculous new national regulatory framework.  You know the one where toddlers must be instructed by some dim-witted graduate from a second rate university.

Sadly, for the dim-witted minister, Kate Ellis, the whole system is in considerable disarray, with child care fees soaring ($120 to $150 per day is now not uncommon in the larger cities) and parents cutting back hours.  With the child care rebate frozen, parents are paying higher amounts out of their own pockets.

One of our relatives has children in childcare and she tells us that she is given a weekly newsletter informing her that the children are being taught about triangles and the colour orange this week.  Thanks for that.

But here’s one of the quotes that particularly caught my eye – from the director of a complying centre.

“For the first time, all services are now being rated against the same seven quality areas, and this will ensure the consistency and quality of services provided to children and families across the country.”

So instead of diversity and choice, it is consistency across the country.

I guess it’s a bit like the National Plan for School Improvement.

Childcare is one area the Coalition has to sort out.  The red tape burden on the sector is ridiculous and it is not obvious why centres should employ university graduates.  We need greater choice, diversity and competition, not the Stalinist straight jacket that this government has chosen.

Perhaps we should require all new mothers to have a university degree in early childhood development?

Update: Additional coverage on early childcare education here and here.

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334 Responses to Childcare: the new protection racket

  1. kae

    I knew someone years ago, in the late 80s, who had two children. Her husband worked and she worked two days a week, studied two days a week and had one day a week as time spent full-time with the children (aside from weekends).

    This arrangement paid for her childcare on the four days which the children were in childcare. I think she was studying for an accounting qualification.

  2. kae

    I do know of some people, once they have child #2, who have to give up working as they can’t afford childcare. It’s OK if you’re on a big single income, but the average wage out here where I am is well below $50k per annum.

  3. It would be ironic, kae, if Gillards refusal to stand up to the Edumacation Unions ended up with less mothers sending their child to childcare and child care degrees becoming worthless in a market where mums stayed home to look after their children.
    Careful what you wish for, sometimes you get it, mums.

  4. jupes

    … national regulatory framework.

    Don’t you just hate those words.

  5. Mundi

    Although expensive in some cities, the system is also being cheated.

    If you earn under $40k (ie. you are a mother on parent pension), then the work/study requirements don’t apply. The combination of child care benefit and child care rebate means you can put your kid in child care for under $5 per day.

    I know single mums who pay $25 per week, get the parent pension and dont even look after their kids.

  6. Biota

    My parents managed to bring up four of us all about 4 years apart with working father and stay at home mother. Along the way my mother got herself a degree and a long career after we were independent. We raised our own two kids similarly except my wife already had her degree. I hope this super expensive national regulatory framework gets families realising the benefits to family of home child care.

  7. lila bermingham

    Well we could ask Margie Abbott how she is making a profit out of her childcare business, or is she employing staff on the new “$2.00 a day LNP pay”.
    Judith, you need to get an acceptable qualification and the learning that does with it, rather than making wild assertions and expecting people to listen to you.

  8. John Mc

    I do know of some people, once they have child #2, who have to give up working as they can’t afford childcare.

    We could afford childcare financially but decided it simply wasn’t worth the cost when you count the lost time with our child, having to entrust their care to people who weren’t going to care for them like we would and the effort required to drop them off and pick them up before and after work. All so one partner – yes, usually the woman – can keep their career going? Unless you absolutely need the cash for the mortgage, or your wife is a doctor or high-earning lawyer or something, it’s simply not worth it. We would rather raise our kids; that’s why we had them.

    And while I respect the right of people to put their babies (i.e. less than one year) in childcare, it completely disgusts me.

  9. Westby

    Biota, when you say “home child care” I assume you are suggesting men and women share the task equally, otherwise, that just wouldn’t be fair, would it?

  10. kae

    I was lucky, my mother was a full time teacher and my father worked full time, too. My maternal grandmother was young enough and a home maker so she was able to care for me after Mum went back to work (after her three month maternity leave). Nanna was my primary care giver in my first five years before I went to school, the same with my brother. It was a lot of running around for Mum.

    These days many people have parents who both work and in-the-family childcare isn’t an option.

    I am also aware of people who are single parents who are incapable of taking care of their children and get very heavily discounted childcare rates and dump their child/children in care almost every day.

  11. kae

    Good thing my mother worked full time or we’d not have had a house.

    Different families, different dynamics.

  12. Snoopy

    Requiring everyone to buy Beemer standard childcare or go without makes as much sense as requiring everyone to either buy a Beemer or walk.

  13. Peter Meadows

    Clearly, this legislation is being pushed by someone who is not married and who has never looked after children. I wonder who that could be?

  14. Brad

    I’d much rather my kids were looked after by a dim witted second rate uni educated woman with life experience, than a toffee nosed bitch like Sloan…

  15. Kate

    What is beyond stupid is that Early Childhood Centres have to have teachers with Early Childhood degrees. There are some 16,000 unemployed teachers in NSW with Primary teaching degrees but they are not able to teach in Early Childhood Centres.
    So, someone who has been through all the accreditation to teach children from 5 years and up in primary school cannot get a job in places where children are 3-5years old and sometimes over 5 years old.
    We parents of unemployed primary teachers watch our adult children wait day after day for a phone call from the Department of Education for casual primary teaching while the Early Childhood Centre down the road keeps advertising for ECT teachers which they can’t find.
    And this with a Labor government who claim to care about employment.
    We have a gross, University fee-driven over-supply of primary school teachers together with a bureaucratically-engineered shortage of Early Childhood Centre teachers and absolutely nobody cares.
    What do the unemployed primary teachers do? Ring a helpline?

  16. ConnorJolley

    At what point did it become ok to so glibly trivialise the terrors of Stalin? I can only imagine the reaction if Labor started routinely describing Coalition policy as Nazism – and rightly so too. It’s this kind of overblown hyperbole that has taken the political discourse in this country to the piercing levels of hysteria at which it currently sits.

    10’s of millions died under Stalin’s reign of terror, not only does Sloane debase the political debate by resorting to such extremist language, she insults the memory of the 100’s of millions who lived and died under the horrors of REAL Stalinism.

    Get a grip already.

  17. rob16

    what exactly was the point of this rant? is there something you were trying to achieve?

  18. Boambee John

    Brad (898424):

    If JG reads your comment, you will be on the list of “mysOOOOGinists”!

  19. Big Stepper

    Why should a preschooler or primary student have access to a university trained teacher? When a university trained teacher who specialised in early education is in a centre the standards rise. If children can’t stay at home with Dad or Mum high standards must apply . Not all children come from homes where their families can give them the best start. That’s why we need school improvemen and specialist teachers. Come meet one & see why they work so hard. It’s a great reason to get behind campaigns to pay them as much as primary teachers through Gov subsidies. Early education and care needs to be affordable and of a high standard when brains are 90% developed by four years of age. It’s why every dollar spent saves on future mental health, health , welfare and jail spending.

  20. boy on a bike

    The missus used to do family day care, which is where you do child care in the home. It was organised through the council. I think she made about $5 per hour per kid. With 6 kids in care for 40 hours a week, it was a nice little earner. As it was done at home, there were no travel costs to get to work and lots of tax deductions. It was good for her and affordable for the parents. Essentially you just had to provide a safe environment and pass the usual police checks. It was also local – minimal distance for parents to travel to drop the kids off.

    It was so good in so many ways. That whole section of the industry has collapsed since then under the weight of paperwork now being demanded by various government agencies, and the requirements for passing a course and getting a bit of paper. Carers have quit by the truck load. What used to be a good job for stay at home mums with minimal entry requirements and costs, plus low costs for parents, is no more.

  21. Tel

    BOAB: Yeah, clobbering the day care mums really pushed up the price of child care, but you see government knows best. What they know that you don’t understand is this: without at least three PhD in childcare ideology, you can’t expect some dumb housewife to be trusted with kids, we will be taking her own kids off her as soon as we think we can get away with it, there’s no way we are letting her near anyone else’s kids.

  22. H B Bear

    Actually the whole thing is a United Voice recruitment campaign.

    One of the more blatant and offensive sops to their union masters from this hopeless puppet regime.

  23. ConnorJolley

    So my comments didn’t make it past the censor. My. How Stalin-esque of you!

  24. H B Bear

    The news came as The Weekend Australian obtained a template letter drafted by the childcare union United Voice demanding union-endorsed enterprise bargaining agreements in workplaces.

  25. ConnorJolley

    Who said this again?

    “It is dangerous to have unchallenged consensus opinions”

  26. candy

    “Carers have quit by the truck load”

    True, it’s a tragedy. Day care mums are the best care for young children.

  27. Johno

    Government can easily improve the delivery of nearly every service they provide by GETTING OUT of delivering and regulating the service. Markets are far superior to government as a means of delivering services. By getting out of the way, governments can save taxpayers money and improve service delivery. It’s all win win.

  28. Tom

    You have a talent, Judith! In this post, y0u’ve brought the Green/public service/campus left out en masse to express their undying love of our Stalinist revolution that the people endorse so strongly. In October, the same fruitcakes will be marching in the streets and trashing public buildings to protest against the return of adult government.

  29. Skuter

    Lila bermingham, where do you get off lecturing Judith, i.e.

    Judith, you need to get an acceptable qualification and the learning that does with it, rather than making wild assertions and expecting people to listen to you.

    …yet you come out with this howler:

    …is she employing staff on the new “$2.00 a day LNP pay”.

    Perhaps you’re not really expecting anyone to listen to you. In that case, you’re off to a flying start. Are you related to hammygar, perchance?

  30. JC

    But Skuter, you need a degree from lofty institutions like LaTrobe and University of Western Sydney to know how to mind toddlers. It’s a complex field.

  31. HK_Girl

    Nationalise! Nationalise! Nationalise! It’s the Socialist way!


    Do those clowns in Canberra observe the failing Socialist countries around the world?


    Brazil => Massive corruption. High costs in doing business there. See the term Brazil Cost. People are seriously angry and protesting at how the Govt has stuffed up things. Ironically, their nation is ruled by a Socialist woman like Gillard! (See bio of President Dilma Rousseff).


    Venezuela => Govt interfered with market “in the name of the poor”. (Basically, they lowered the prices of necessities so even the poor could afford things. Lots of protectionism. The problem was, this killed any incentive to start a sustainable business in Brazil!)…As a result shortage of eggs, milk, etc is a norm! They recently ran out of toilet paper! The Govt had to intervene again by making a special 50 million toilet roll emergency order to curb the shortage!…Have a look at their toilet paper crisis!


    The real problem with Govt getting involved in anything, is that there’s always an incompetent moron in charge. This is primarily because this Govt works under two basic premises. (a) Gender Quota; (b) Buddy System…Neither of these paradigms encourage competence, focus on skill, experience, and actually getting things done that offers a good result to the people of this Nation. Its really about them and their selfishness to waste our money. ie: Power.


    Kate Ellis is nothing more than an incompetent by-product of a fundamentally flawed paradigm. I would not trust her…Even with Child Care!

  32. Skuter

    JC, I have to say, the childcare workers at the centre where our little one attends are great. They have their qualifications listed on a board near the front door. They are mostly cert IV and diploma qualified. I think the director of the centre and maybe one other staff member has a degree. I think that’s probably about right. To have all of them degree qualified would just be massive overkill…

  33. Snoopy

    Jeepers! Just suggest that diversity and choice might be good things and screeching, shit-flinging flying monkeys invade the joint.

  34. JC

    No problem, Skuter.

    But as, Judith suggests, there’s no choice. What you like may not be what others want at a more cut rate fee.

  35. C.L.

    It is, of course, only a matter of time before incarceration in the Goo-Ga Archipelago becomes compulsory. If there’s one cohort in society leftists hate above any others it is married women doing their duty at home looking after their own children.

  36. C.L.

    Judith on fire today, by the way.

  37. Gab

    Wow, Judith you’ve really upset the leftards. They crawling out from under their rocks to abuse you.

    You must have said a lot of things that hit a nerve – they don’t like reality being pointed out. Well done.

  38. Gab

    And it’s also a full moon.

  39. sabrina

    …”all services are now being rated against the same seven quality areas, and this will ensure the consistency and quality of services provided to children and families across the country.”

    Nothing wrong with ensuring consistency and quality of services, it is desirable.
    Do not expect that with the next LNP government, child care fees will drop much, if at all.

  40. kae

    It’s a Super Moon

    The moon is as close to Earth as it will be in 2013.

  41. James of the Glens

    “It’s a Super Moon ” (kae), and it appears to have bought out a few Super Lunatics in the form of the darlings, Lila and Brad.

    Just for an instant it’s worthwhile thinking about the background of these two charming people; not too hard to guess the abuse meted out to them, neglect, parental absence, and rough-house ignorance of how to refer to and respect others.
    Of these, the absence of parental models often cuts the hardest and builds up resentment against those who point out its effects.
    The lashing out is there in spades.

    And of course, the generational effect is there ready to repeat itself; little Lilas and Brads, products of the state as every bit disconnected from the care Brad and Lila know they’ve missed.

  42. James of the Glens

    “brought” !

  43. Snoopy

    Nothing wrong with ensuring consistency and quality of services, it is desirable.

    No. All that’s desirable is that parents know exactly what they are paying for. Contract law is sufficient.

  44. .

    Judith, you need to get an acceptable qualification and the learning that does with it, rather than making wild assertions and expecting people to listen to you.

    Hahahaha! For wiping a kid’s arse?

    There is a new regulation that says you need a cert III, but what’s the use of it.

    Here is what matters: you pass a working with children check and you are not a halfwit with substance abuse problems, and you like kids (in the good way).

    No one needs a fucking degree to turn on a thomas the tank engine DVD.

    I know there is a place for early childhood education, but not everyone in childcare needs to be a preschool teacher. Children don’t miss out on much without childcare anyway. The ones that stay at home catch up soon enough.

  45. Gab

    No surprise there, monkeys love bananas.

    They’re not saying anything of note, just abusing Judith. Seems they don’t actually understand the content of the post, so they’ve resorted to their default position of vitriol and abuse rather than having the brains to offer counterarguments.

  46. .

    Puffed up idiots being paid on the taxpayer dime to write trash also support overcapitalising useless “early childhood education” (resulting in daycare, what it really is, being unaffordable to most people) and ripping out the guts of universities that can teach law, physics, engineering, medicine?

    I’m not surprised. They don’t like the tall poppies.

  47. Pickles

    She’s just tenderizing them for tomorrow night

  48. .

    I’ve dealt a lot with nice people from the State Government whom are useless.

    These people think being on the public payroll and not being an outwardly abrasive rube equates with productivity.

    They should quit, let their husband or wife earn an income and raise some Shi Tzus.

    The same with these lefties and their “what Judith thinks of our wonderful childcare wukkas” schtick.

    It’s a horrible cliche…but “Nice father? I don’t give a shit, go home and play with your kids”.

    Unless you have a customer service aspect to your job, it largely doesn’t matter.

    It is funny to see a bunch of childless people, who don’t want kids, defend the utility of “early childhood education”, at the same time as someone questions a union drive to capture another industry that shouldn’t exist.

    What they are saying is that funding union bosses is more important than making daycare affordable.

  49. Gab

    Good point, She does tend to bring out the worst in them hehehe.

  50. Tom

    The ferals really hate Judith. This from a female zombie on Twitter:

    Judith Sloan you’re a c**t

    My censorship there. This is the problem with children’s government. After they’ve been allowed to run wild with the parents’ credit card, they feel entitled to the level of irresponsibility we’ve seen for the past three years.

  51. dd

    I am glad this issue is getting prominence.
    The government has been quietly strangling this industry and for a while it seemed that nobody even noticed.

  52. dd

    JC, I have to say, the childcare workers at the centre where our little one attends are great. They have their qualifications listed on a board near the front door. They are mostly cert IV and diploma qualified.

    That’s great that you’re happy with the service but you don’t need a degree to look after small children. It’s absurd.

    Child care went on for a long, long time before the new regime and in fact was going on before universities were invented. Even recently in Australia these institutions could be set up without too much bother from government but now that “early childhood” is on the radar of a hundred bureaucratic agencies, it’s all but impossible to do.

    The regulations are making child care unaffordable. No problem, say the left. “We’ll subsidise it!”

    Okay… er… so you’re going to tax me some more to subsidise my child care…. I think there’s something wrong with that logic.

  53. crocodile

    I am glad this issue is getting prominence.
    The government has been quietly strangling this industry and for a while it seemed that nobody even noticed.

    The strangulation began with the introduction of the rebate. Dumb fuckwits who ever brought that one in.

  54. jane

    Just because a 3rd rate eleventy so called economist doesn’t give a toss about the quality of child care doesn’t mean the government should adopt the same attitude

  55. Gab

    Child care went on for a long, long time before the new regime and in fact was going on before universities were invented. Even recently in Australia these institutions could be set up without too much bother from government but now that “early childhood” is on the radar of a hundred bureaucratic agencies, it’s all but impossible to do.

    It doesn’t say much about the mothers (yes, feminazis, mothers) who stay at home to rear their children , does it? Are they considered too dumb to care for their toddlers becuase they don’t have a Degree in Changing Nappies And Play Activities? It’s been going on for eons, this mother look after the kiddies thing and they didn’t do too bad a job, and they did it without useless degrees and certificates.

  56. dd

    Just because a 3rd rate eleventy so called economist doesn’t give a toss about the quality of child care doesn’t mean the government should adopt the same attitude

    There is no evidence – none – that the new regime provides better outcomes than the previous, lightly regulated system. “Caring” doesn’t cut it. If you’re going to make it very expensive and drive small operators out of business, you should have more than that.

  57. Snoopy

    I agree with Jane. What’s wrong with the government restructuring an industry to funnel millions to a union? I’m sure taxpayers and families are happy to pick up the tab. Quality doesn’t come cheap you know.

  58. John Mc

    Hahahaha! For wiping a kid’s arse?

    There’s the point, you degree qualified childcare f**kheads. I don’t need your degree. I need you to change my two-year-olds duds when he has an ‘accident’, not leave him sitting in it because you believe you’re above it or something.

    A degree for childcare is a load of nappy filler. What about letting the market reward those who really love kids and are sought after by working parents because of it.

  59. nilk, Iron Bogan

    I agree with Boy. My girl was in family day care rather than kindergarten, because the hours for kindergarten with a learning program (!) were stupid – two half days a week was the going standard at the time – and I didn’t want her in a learning program at 3-4.

    I had arguments with people about it also. Apparently small children just have to attend kindergarten to get a good start on life.

    Rubbish. At that age, they need to play.

    But the red tape was killing it off – we’re talking a woman looking after several littlies in her own home having inspectors come into her house and tell her that she has to put a plan on one wall, she has to put children’s artwork in another section of the wall to demonstrate what they’re doing. Not allowed to use a microwave to heat food up for them and my favourite piece of fascist idiocy: this lady was expected to put one of those large plastic shells full of sand in her lounge room so that the kids could have a sand pit in any weather.

    She flat out refused to do that, and a compromise was reached with the shell sand pit being placed in the garage instead.

    That was 7 years ago.

    It’s much worse now, and with the cost increases parents have been cutting back hours in the childcare centres which are now losing money.

  60. Gab

    ConnorJolley
    #898441, posted on June 23, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    So my comments didn’t make it past the censor. My. How Stalin-esque of you!

    What an idiot.

  61. Tel

    A degree for childcare is a load of nappy filler.

    That’s T-Shirt material.

  62. Tel

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216220/Mothers-banned-looking-children.html

    Just in case anyone might think that stupidity and Socialism come to a stop when they meet an ocean.

  63. brc

    When are socialists gong to come up with a better argument than ‘but we care’?

    Apparently the twitter fly-bys didn’t work out you could use more than 140 characters in a blog comment- ther is even the space to mount a coherent argument.

    If having extra qualifications is so important shouldnt we demand children’s bus drivers also be degree qualified?

    I knew somene who did family day care for a decade. The parents and kids loved her. The regs got too much and she threw it in. The kids miss out, the parents miss out, nobody wins except for those that seek more power and control over everything.

  64. wreckage

    These people really cannot conceive of the idea that a woman without a degree can care for children!

    By the way, you ill-informed know-it-alls, children in the 2-5 age learn by PLAY. The left leaning northern European states with their amazing educational outcomes have taken that fact to heart, and abandoned ever-increasing structured lessons in favour of more play, and starting formal instruction later not earlier.

    Could the left PLEASE actually look to some of the successful leftists worldwide instead of uncritically regurgitating worthless shit from the US Democratic Party? Remember the absolute cock-up of US education has been a largely bipartisan affair and Australia’s current trend is, right now under Gillard, to follow the US straight off the cliff.

    You are better than this, there are better ideas than this, please, please, stop being stupid.

  65. twostix

    I’d much rather my kids were looked after by a dim witted second rate uni educated woman with life experience, than a toffee nosed bitch like Sloan…

    People! When Gillard is turfed out our work won’t have finished.

    It will only just begun and we can see from this thread the left are getting themselves back into form.

  66. Henry Mac

    I am glad to know there are still pundits out there who would welcome an unregulated low standard child care system with greater chances of child abuse. We must never deviate from the purity of choice and should always argue for choice over even standards. I am glad to that you are comfortable to see your child cared for by the untrained. After all a good heart must be an appropriate substitute for knowledge and standards.

  67. .

    jane #898705, posted on June 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm
    Just because a 3rd rate eleventy so called economist doesn’t give a toss about the quality of child care doesn’t mean the government should adopt the same attitude

    Honey

    She has a Ph D and she is on the board of a gas and oil firm.

    If she’s third rate then second class must be exempleary.

    Caring means cuting regulations. Not increasing them and making childcare unaffordable. You seem to think that making supply tighter allows for more “care”. Nonsense. Children simply don’t need an elite education at 3 years, nor does this make childcare affordable.

    You’d be better off learnign some economics dear, even some fourth rate stuff.

  68. .

    I’d much rather my kids were looked after by a dim witted second rate uni educated woman with life experience, than a toffee nosed bitch like Sloan…

    LOL…they’re jealous of an economics Ph D, preferring a poorly educated person, yet bang on about “da quality”.

    Judith nailed them. It is featherbedding writ large and they’re pissed someone is onto their scam.

  69. .

    Damn typos. No doubt some lefty idiot will see this as a victory for them, even though they are inummerate and cannot spell without Microsoft Word for Mac spell check.

    Funny how they rely on corporations, isn’t it?

  70. .

    wreckage #898867, posted on June 24, 2013 at 12:25 am
    These people really cannot conceive of the idea that a woman without a degree can care for children!

    By the way, you ill-informed know-it-alls, children in the 2-5 age learn by PLAY. The left leaning northern European states with their amazing educational outcomes have taken that fact to heart, and abandoned ever-increasing structured lessons in favour of more play, and starting formal instruction later not earlier.

    Could the left PLEASE actually look to some of the successful leftists worldwide instead of uncritically regurgitating worthless shit from the US Democratic Party? Remember the absolute cock-up of US education has been a largely bipartisan affair and Australia’s current trend is, right now under Gillard, to follow the US straight off the cliff.

    You are better than this, there are better ideas than this, please, please, stop being stupid.

    Amen.

    America excelled up until the 1970s as a result of the economic crisis, but the politicians blamed the education system, not themselves for ruining the economy. From WWII to the 1970s classes were less structured.

    I hear Finland has an excellent pedagogical system, combined with vocuhers and a trailing performance system (given primary teachers have kids for their entire schooling etc), you could get a really excellent system, without cheating like in China or child suicides in Japan and Korea.

    Putting pressure on 2-5 year olds to learn will just make the system more centralised, regimented and completely shithouse.

  71. Judith Sloan

    All good. I actually thought what I said was pretty measured.

    After all, most of this stuff is really being done to appease the union movement, particularly United Voice.

    All the vitriol convinces me that there is even more to this story than I had thought.

  72. Gab

    According to the PM, they must be misogynists.

  73. Skuter

    That’s great that you’re happy with the service but you don’t need a degree to look after small children. It’s absurd.

    Child care went on for a long, long time before the new regime and in fact was going on before universities were invented. Even recently in Australia these institutions could be set up without too much bother from government but now that “early childhood” is on the radar of a hundred bureaucratic agencies, it’s all but impossible to do.

    The regulations are making child care unaffordable. No problem, say the left. “We’ll subsidise it!”

    Okay… er… so you’re going to tax me some more to subsidise my child care…. I think there’s something wrong with that logic.

    I agree with everything you say dd. I was really trying to make the point that almost none of the workers at our centre are degree qualified and it works just beautifully. For mine, I would prefer the director had some training in business/accounting. But a degree isn’t even really necessary for her job.
    I do think there is a lot of room for greater choice in levels of care. The push to standardise everything is bullshit. It occurs in so many policy areas on different scales – usually national or international…
    The bureaucracy seems to have latched on to Heckman’s work on early childhood interventions to justify intervention for all children. Although I think Heckman was talking about far more limited interventions for children in disadvantaged settings. Judith can probably enlighten us more about this.

  74. candy

    I agree with Wreckage above. Structured learning for little ones is just pressurising them.
    In fact, ‘forcing’ them to learn numbers and letters too early is just going to make them anxious and nervous, they’re just little kids who need to play and learn some basic socialising skills and be happy.

    Some will always learn early but they’re just built that way and would learn early in any reasonable child care situation because they want to get at books and puzzles etc and work things out but you can’t force them.

  75. Pickles

    Looking forward to you providing 12 minutes of entertainment tonight Perfesser. I would love to hear someone on the panel just once tell Tony Jones:

    “Tony I am here to answer questions from the audience and the public, not you. This is their platform, not another one of yours”

  76. Gab

    12 minutes

    Geez, you’re optimistic, Pickles. You really think Jones is going to allow Judith to speak for that long?

  77. brc

    All the vitriol convinces me that there is even more to this story than I had thought.

    As the old saying goes, when you are taking flak you are over the target.

    If there is a surplus of abuse and a deficit of reason you can be sure a member of the union movement is arguing with you. This thread seems to have poked a stick right into a hornets nest of hate filled union members.

    Still, when unionistas and socialists in general are freaking out and marching in the street you know progress is being made. Anything that upsets that mob is generally good for the country. The more destructive they get, the better the policies being presented are. When they went crazy and ransacked parliament house, there was some great work going on.

  78. Empire Strikes Back

    Wow, you sure have hit a raw nerve with the vile left Judith. Congratulations.

    Whilst there was plenty of ignorant offensive nonsense posted on this thread (and other fora), it is encouraging to see left wing staffers working on a Sunday. Good training for private sector employment post election. I’d rather see them preparing the finishing touches for a breakfast cereal campaign launch on their weekends than claiming Newstart and sleeping in.

  79. Snoopy

    Still, when unionistas and socialists in general are freaking out and marching in the street you know progress is being made.

    Sinc should run a book on the date of the post election ransacking of Parliament House a la 1996. If it doesn’t occur before June 2014, the Abbott government will be a obvious disappointment.

  80. Adam D

    So if you need a degree to be a childcare worker what qualifies you to be a parent?

    More importantly how many times will the left not follow the logical path of their ideas? Seriously everything they touch turns to shit, and they want to educate our pre-school children?

    Lets break it down:

    Childcare has 2 benefits: the socialisation of children and the ability for a parent to work or take a break.

    Now there are only 2 barriers to childcare: placements being available and the cost.

    So if we want the socialisation of children (and the subsequent learning as a by-product) and an increase in the participation of the workforce then we should NOT over-regulate the sector by increasing wages, reducing ratios, requiring excessive training, having learning criteria, unnecessary infrastructure, which has the all-to-predictable effect of limiting placements and increasing cost.

    If people want super high quality care the marketplace will look after them with a premium, government dictation is not required.

  81. Thankyou Judith, you’ve managed to draw the vested interests out from under their rocks.

  82. Not a very good answer on QandA Judith!! You looked very embarrassed indeed.

  83. Prince

    No regulatory framework. Lower wages. Lower education reqirements for careers. What do you think this will do for the quality of the care our children receive?

  84. Pam

    “You know the one where toddlers must be instructed by some dim-witted graduate from a second rate university.” I can’t believe you made that comment . For someone so well educated ! You have shown Such a lack of respect for the worth of these wonderful workers . I believe this statement to be incredibly incorrect and insulting.

  85. Brad

    It’s so hard to find good Help today, isn’t it? What, with all of those dimwits who can’t afford a $100k child care degree from Melbourne or Sydney University. Instead, our au pair studied at Princeton. It brings much shame on our family too Judith!

  86. Bill

    You don’t need a degree to be a childcare worker.
    Before you go on a misinformed rant, read the Framework.

    To me, the framework is about making sure the key areas in a child’s development are covered.

  87. Watcher

    You looked a little like a kid caught out on Q&A tonight Judith. ” Dim-witted gradute from a second rate university”. You clearly didn’t expect that coommnet to be heard outside your blog playground.

  88. catzilla

    Your friend is being given a weekly newsletter telling them that their child is learning about triangles and the colour orange, because your friend is too busy chasing their own selfish interests/money that they’re letting someone else raise their child for them. Surely they want to know what things their child is learning about so they can continue the conversations at home? Or is that too much hassle as well, in between the after work drinks and weekend rowing regattas?

    As for not having any idea why we need our ECTs to be trained…anyone with half a clue about child development understands that 0-5 is an incredibly important time, particularly in terms of identifying any areas of concern that require early intervention, but also general communication, social skills and conceptual development. If the powers-that-be had any idea, we’d be putting our brightest minds in that sector and paying them more, in order to give our kids the best start possible.

    If we’re going to have baby farms so that mummy and daddy can work a thousand hours a week to buy their new BMW and a $2million house, then we need to make sure that the stand-in parents are up to the task.

    As for your comment about “dim witted graduates from second rate universities”….just, wow.

  89. Kathy

    What a disgrace. To make such a comment as yours in relation to the quality of child care workers is absolutely appalling. Any credibility you had has now been extinguished.

  90. Anon

    You appalling, condescending woman. Never before tonight have I heard a more disgusting commentary on Q&A than your effort in repeating the above description of child care workers. You are an absolute disgrace as a commentator and a gender representative.
    I haven no axe to grind in this – no children and no particular political leanings – so I am not a ‘vested interest under a rock’. I do not read blogs. I was simply appalled, as were many in the [email protected] audience. Indeed I had to exercise restraint from referring to you as a bitch. That would have demonstrated gender inequality. I repeat; you appalling, condescending woman.

  91. Jb

    Why do pre school aged children have to be taught anything at pre school child minding,are their parents just plain useless.Keep them out of the traffic between 8 and 4,let them play a few games and send them home happy…..Do you really need a university degree to achieve that…..

  92. SadAussie

    “All good. I actually thought what I said was pretty measured.”

    Judith – your face on Q&A when your comment was cited belies this confidence. Like the pollies you so glibly criticise for doing so , you tried to avoid the question and looked somewhat uncomfortable. Deservedly so in my view.

    It may be “only a blog” but intemperate language by both left and right, many of whom know that the more outrageous they are the more likely to be invited to be a commentator, has and continues to corrupt public discourse on important topics and challenges! It also gives “the man in the street” permission, and provides a role model, to be outrageous, abusive and devoid of rational and honest dialogue.

    I feel sad for the future of our country. LEFT and RIGHT get a grip…we are neighbours and all in this together!

  93. Jasmin Raddon

    Does anybody here actually know what the regulation for early childhood workers means for each centre? It means that ONE staff member at the service will have a degree and work at the centre for 6 hours a day. (Or less for smaller centres). It seems as though people here are under the impression that the intention is that all staff will hold a degree. Also, what in the…. Does anybody know what an early childhood educator is teaching the children? As we are all up in arms about the irrelevancy of structured learning for preschoolers…an early childhood educator is actually trained to document and follow up on the needs of individual children through monitoring behavioural attitudes and preferences identified THROUGH PLAY. It seems as though we are somehow equating “early childhood education” with making 3-5 year old sit exams or some such nonsense.
    The quality areas are defining minimum standards none of which are unreasonable and centres will be rated so that informed choices are more readily available to families about what level of care they prefer to access for their children.
    Sorry, but any system that values and respects the child to a level that they are not regarded as a sub-species human being whom only needs “their arse wiped” to be regarded as appropriately cared for, is ok with me.

  94. simo

    Please don’t insult childcare workers who are doing their job they aren’t the dim wits, they follow the regulations , policies that are created by university graduates.
    Also every childcare centre is different , run differently and caters for the community that it operates in, their aim is to support children, families and communities.
    All childcare worker’s I know have an extremely hard job, they need to build attachments with child and family before the child commences at the centre, observe each individual child during the day then write about their development through what they have observed, They often bring their work home writing portfolios, connecting it to the eylf frame work and programing activities for each child that will interest them and also enhance their development skills. This plus ensure that all children are safe, secure in their learning environment while there parent/ guardian works, study as the government wants us to work and pay our taxes so that they can use the taxes, to help create a better Australia or is it for their pay rise I can’t decide, it surely can’t be for us to observe the political circus that is happening at the moment all of whom are university graduates but mainly act like dim wits themselves.

  95. Chris

    Judith, I watched you squirm on Q&A tonight. What a horrible and ignorant thing to call children’s educators.

  96. Benjamin

    I thought you were an economist Judith? Should it come at a surprise that where there is high demand there is a high price for childcare. You either want workforce participation and the extra GNP growth, or you don’t? In a family with two incomes the marginal cost of each hour of child care is dispersed across two wages, if this dispersion is not enough to offset the GNP, factoring in leisure time of individuals and the accrue benefits to the long-term well being of the child then work is stopped. I can’t see a problem with that when in most case it is a choice to have children, and the costs they bring in the first instance.

    I like to see a good double standard on national regulatory frameworks as well. The constant push from national standards within all other areas of commercial operations? Read anything that comes from COAG meetings or the Business Advisory Forum to COAG? Surely by the amazing standard of deductive reasoning applied within this blog, they too are ‘stalinist’ fingers of regulation. Lets choose to forget that standards of information lubricate markets by creating trust…

  97. “Geez, you’re optimistic, Pickles. You really think Jones is going to allow Judith to speak for that long”?
    Jones gave Sloane enough rope and the audience enjoyed him bringing her back to the point on at least three occasions.
    Sloane’s defense of her “You know the one where toddlers must be instructed by some dim-witted graduate from a second rate university” rant as “Ohhh, it’s just a blog and you can use colourful language…” made the comment here “….a toffee-nosed bitch”, look quite accurate and her comparisons of the villification of Gillard and Howard even raised a smile from Brandis as she compounded being nailed by hammering herself further into Q&A panel irrelevancy.

  98. Gab

    Wow I can tell you’re really really excited, Lawrence. Judith must be really important to you. You left out the bit where she said “from her experience” in dealing with the over-qualified dimwits.

    Does having degree qualified dimwits looking after toddlers make the toddlers smarter do you think?

  99. Gab

    ….a toffee-nosed bitch

    reminds me of gillard with her pearls in that regal pose knitting a kangaroo.

  100. .

    Good morning deadshits,

    Good quality childcare means your children are not bored, neglected or abused.

    This doesn’t require a cert III, B Ed or a Ph D.

    Early childhood learning has it’s place, but is mostly done through PLAY. Baby Mozart? You’re bunch of gullible fops.

    Supply is constrained because of the insidious credentialism which asserts otherwise as to the actual requirements to adequetely care for a child.

    Should it come at a surprise that where there is high demand there is a high price for childcare.

    Only if supply is constrained, dummy.

    There is a high demand for clean drinking water as well.

    You guys are just angry because Judith showed the public the union’s scam repeated over and over agian: set barriers to entry, featherbed and iotherwise get jobs for maaates in useless “training” through dodgy RDOs.

    If it costs more to put your kid in daycare than it does to stay home, THEN FUCKING STAY AT HOME.

    Somehow lefties when discussing economics, believe in the fallacy of composition (which is actually abused to do so) when discussing Keynes, but forget it exists when it comes to childcare.

    Labour force participation at any cost…just as stupid as building cars at any cost.

    There is no difference. Aggregating more labour force participation whilst running at a loss has no net benefit. We are just paying for vanity where the price is high due to onerous regulation and credentialism support writ large by the union movement who are corrupt and don’t want to do an honest day’s work.

    You guys scrwed the pooch on supply, now want demand to be subsidised…you are simply asking for subsidies. You are morally no different to a sugar baron in the US.

    …and you malodourous turds actually think Judith is a horrible woman because she thinks that you don’t need a degree to raise children.

    I’ll bet you London to a brick a majority of those who criticised Judith on twitter were childless and have no intention of ever producing sprogs.

  101. Infidel Tiger

    I haven no axe to grind in this – no children and no particular political leanings

    Thank heavens for small mercies.

  102. Infidel Tiger

    All childcare worker’s I know have an extremely hard job, they need to build attachments with child and family before the child commences at the centre, observe each individual child during the day then write about their development through what they have observed, They often bring their work home writing portfolios, connecting it to the eylf frame work and programing activities for each child that will interest them and also enhance their development skills.

    Struth. All the parents want is the kid fed, clean and not run over.

  103. Steve of Glasshouse

    So, who needs a uni degree to look after kids? Here’s a heads’s up for the real world.
    Universities peddle courses ;hey get paid to do so. There are no job guarantees after the event, and more fool you if you go into a field ( hello journo students ) where the jobs are scarce, the renumeration poor etc.

    So yes, there are dim wits out there who just have to go to “uni” and become overqualified for their eventual field of employ

  104. Gab

    DD said it best:

    Child care went on for a long, long time before the new regime and in fact was going on before universities were invented. Even recently in Australia these institutions could be set up without too much bother from government but now that “early childhood” is on the radar of a hundred bureaucratic agencies, it’s all but impossible to do.

    The regulations are making child care unaffordable.

    There is no evidence – none – that the new regime (university qualified baby-sitters) provides better outcomes than the previous, lightly regulated system. “Caring” doesn’t cut it. If you’re going to make it very expensive and drive small operators out of business, you should have more than that.

  105. Kylie

    Perhaps Judith you would do well to investigate the value and lasting long economic benefits of investing in education in the early years. To aid you in this pursuit, here is something to get you started…

    http://earlyyearsstudy.ca/

    As an economist I am certain you will be interested to learn and perhaps develop your own education about something outside your own expertise

  106. .

    …and another thing.

    People only want workforce participation because housing is unaffordable.

    Why?

    Under NSW Labour and Green preferences, the tax RATE on a new home in NW Sydney has risen to be as high as 85%.

    The HIA, Peter Abelson etc say that a home in NW Sydney in 2011, with a price of $640k, 46% of the price was TAX.

    Thus the tax RATE on purchasing a new dwelling has gone up to 85%.

    Thanks money hungry Labor, corrupt union maaates and anti development, anti family Greens.

  107. candy

    Little kids can’t be forced to learn before they’re ready, any parent knows that. They need a safe, happy and warm happy environment in child care to thrive, play and be happy, that’s it.

    A child care assistant with a uni degree, or without a uni degree, cannot force a three or four year old to learn letters and numbers if they’re not emotionally and intellectually ready, it won’t happen.

    I thought the “dimwit’ comment was inappropriate too but we all say things silly sometimes and Ms Sloan seems a charming lovely woman. The comments above by Anon and Kathy seem badly written, in my opinion.

  108. Gab

    Little kids can’t be forced to learn before they’re ready, any parent knows that.

    Well that’s just wrong, Candy and parents should be made to have university childcare qualifications before they reproduce. /sarc

  109. .

    Perhaps Judith you would do well to investigate the value and lasting long economic benefits of investing in education in the early years. To aid you in this pursuit, here is something to get you started…

    http://earlyyearsstudy.ca/

    As an economist I am certain you will be interested to learn and perhaps develop your own education about something outside your own expertise

    Bullshit. Anyone who thinks “teaching” 2-5 year olds has value that does not get retracement or that is caught up to is off their head.

    All that matters is that children are looked after properly and exposed to different enriching stimuli.

    Which doesn’t require a fucking university degree.

    There is nothing relevant to featherbedding unions on that website. The authors have misused the academic study of others to produce a motherhood statement asking for a handout.

  110. C.L.

    … investing in education in the early years.

    This is feminist code for ‘dump your children in the Goo-Ga Archipelago as babies so you can get back to your all-important career pretending to be a man.’

  111. Tom

    .
    #900560, posted on June 25, 2013 at 9:38 am

    C.L.
    #900604, posted on June 25, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Magnificent.

    Best political blog in Australia.

  112. egg_

    Yet more from the Left’s desperation dirt bag as Aunty’s QandA has a sliming gotcha moment… how’s the AGW promotional gig faring these days, SnowConeTone?

    Keeping your pissed starlets off the streets in the wee hours nowadays?

  113. jumpnmcar

    Judith, I watched you squirm on Q&A tonight. What a horrible and ignorant thing to call children’s educators.

    Hang on, what?
    I didn’t watch q&a ( just got home after a 12 hour night shift)
    What did Judith say about parents?

  114. Tintarella di Luna

    ooooh Dot

    You are so on fire today. I love you when you’re angry. Go dot. This topic obviously burns you, burn baby burn. On this cold and miserable day I’m enjoying the warmth.

  115. Pickles

    I suppose it was a bit of a shock for the poor dears to learn that not everyone rates their early childhood degree from Southern Highlands Institute of Technology or a Cert III from Dubbo TAFE on the same level as Medicine from Melbourne or Engineering from Sydney. It’s not an insult, it’s reality.

  116. Anon

    – Good morning deadshits –
    – THEN FUCKING STAY AT HOME. –
    – and you malodourous turds –
    – no intention of ever producing sprogs –
    – Bullshit. –
    – Which doesn’t require a fucking university degree. –

    Well… easy to see your level of education at least. Thanks for your most erudite contribution to the debate. Your ‘balanced’ views are typical of the sort of “fuck you, I know it all” attitude pedalled by Sloan and her ilk.
    Find something useful to do.

  117. brc

    Should it come at a surprise that where there is high demand there is a high price for childcare.

    Only if supply is constrained, dummy.

    There is a high demand for clean drinking water as well.

    I’m sad that I wasn’t the first one to point out to benjamin that, although he makes economist sounding words, he has no clue what he is talking about.

    There s huge demand for many things, like rubbish collection and lawn mowing. But the supply matches up quite nicely and keeps the cost low.

    But these subsidy seeking fools – trading on outrage ! – cant seem to work out that what they re doing is trying to create a nice sheltered workshop for themselves, instead of actually delivering what parents want.

    If I argued that garbage drivers need to be degree qualified, then, when costs of garbage collection went up, demanded subsidies from the government, ell, everyone would see thought the ruse.

    But because we all have to “think of the children” somehow this blatant rent seeking is to be glossed over?

    Well, I say why stop at degree level? These are our children, our future. I won’t be satisfied until every childcare worker has a Phd and does 5 years residency with exams every 6 months. We should pay them as much as surgeons, and if parents can’t afford the $400 an hour, well, the taxpayers should fill in the rest.

  118. brc

    Oooh. Anon is outraged! outraged at strong language. Perhaps anon might take a read of the twitter feeds surrounding this subject and make an appraisal?

    I try not to use strong language inmy replies but sympathise with those that do, when yet another set of clueless people arrive and try our their long-since-ridiculed talking points born of their deficient reasoning skills.

  119. .

    Well… easy to see your level of education at least. Thanks for your most erudite contribution to the debate. Your ‘balanced’ views are typical of the sort of “fuck you, I know it all” attitude pedalled by Sloan and her ilk.
    Find something useful to do.

    You idiot. You simply counted how many times you were insulted, pleaded as a victim and didn’t actually take on the arguments.

    I presumed you didn’t have an argument and so I called you an idiot. Turns out you don’t have any arguments. I was right and the insults are valid.

    Get cranky at yourself for having poor form, anon.

    There is no valid argument to fund early childhood education.

    There is no valid argument to have a national system of childcare to encourage workforce participation, to run at a loss in aggregate.

    There is no valid reason to subsidise the unions or union run VET and university sectors to pump out joke courses in the name of “quality”.

    There is no reason to defend the ALP, unions and Greens who have made housing so unaffordable that two parents need to work now just to pay the bills, despite decades of economic growth when female participation started to rise (to begin with, as a driver of growth, not as a way, as it is now, just to keep your head above water).

    You have not uttered a single argument other than you don’t like people here. The feeling is mutual but you don’t have an argument.

    Admit it – you are just angry because you have some part in this scam and you don’t like people upsetting you when you think you are going to lay in the cut and they protest to your racketeering.

  120. brc

    If we’re going to have baby farms so that mummy and daddy can work a thousand hours a week to buy their new BMW and a $2million house, then we need to make sure that the stand-in parents are up to the task.

    Wow, just wow. Generalize much?

    All the people I know who have their kids in childcare are doing so because they are in low paid jobs. The hi cost of living caused by endless taxes makes them have to work. Of the people I do know with $2 million houses and Bmws, they have stay at home mums who split their time between Pilates class and play-dates at child-friendly coffee shops.

  121. .

    Your ‘balanced’ views are typical of the sort of “fuck you, I know it all” attitude pedalled by Sloan and her ilk.

    Turns out that I do.

    Now fuck off!

    Well, I say why stop at degree level? These are our children, our future. I won’t be satisfied until every childcare worker has a Phd and does 5 years residency with exams every 6 months. We should pay them as much as surgeons, and if parents can’t afford the $400 an hour, well, the taxpayers should fill in the rest.

    You monster, how could you even consider the underprovision of public goods for our children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children?

  122. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    All childcare worker’s I know have an extremely hard job, they need to build attachments with child and family before the child commences at the centre, observe each individual child during the day then write about their development through what they have observed, They often bring their work home writing portfolios, connecting it to the eylf frame work and programing activities for each child that will interest them and also enhance their development skills.

    What a load of garbage. Mum stays at home and looks after the little ones, who hurtle about the place playing. Only been going on for a couple of million years. No degree needed. Dad helps out as much as he can when he gets home from work.

    We did this in raising our own kids and yep, it meant a deliberate decicion to have the kids early, better half spending 15 years at home, and NOT buying a house until late. It meant both of us working until 60-65. All worth it – it’s called ‘sacrificing your own interests for those of your kids’.

    What Judith has done here is puncture the mincing pretence of a feather-bedded union make-work scheme that has had devastating social consequences.

    As the underwear-soiling hysteria of the drooling left-wing mouth-breathing window-lickers on open display here proves.

  123. Anon

    I try not to use strong language inmy replies but sympathise with those that do, when yet another set of clueless people arrive and try our their long-since-ridiculed talking points born of their deficient reasoning skills.

    Sanctimonious prat.
    Typical PhD in blog level tripe.

  124. Gab

    There is no valid argument to fund early childhood education.

    True, as this latest rabble of unionists invading the blog prove.
    They’re upset by mean words, that’s a;; they can focus upon. None have given any valid argument though.

  125. .

    Does anybody here actually know what the regulation for early childhood workers means for each centre? It means that ONE staff member at the service will have a degree and work at the centre for 6 hours a day. (Or less for smaller centres). It seems as though people here are under the impression that the intention is that all staff will hold a degree.

    Now, but by 1 Jan 2014, all staff will need a joke of a cert III qual., offered by all kinds of “training” shysters.

    Also, what in the…. Does anybody know what an early childhood educator is teaching the children? As we are all up in arms about the irrelevancy of structured learning for preschoolers…an early childhood educator is actually trained to document and follow up on the needs of individual children through monitoring behavioural attitudes and preferences identified THROUGH PLAY. It seems as though we are somehow equating “early childhood education” with making 3-5 year old sit exams or some such nonsense.

    Why bother unless you offer it as a premium service. Was Newton “documented as a toddler?

    The quality areas are defining minimum standards none of which are unreasonable and centres will be rated so that informed choices are more readily available to families about what level of care they prefer to access for their children.
    Sorry, but any system that values and respects the child to a level that they are not regarded as a sub-species human being whom only needs “their arse wiped” to be regarded as appropriately cared for, is ok with me.

    Sorry love, but you have been brainwashed. They are not necessary at all.

    A minimum standard is to wipe a kid’s butt when they shit their pants. It is not the mark of an ubermensch oppressing an untermensch.

    You seem reasonable but wholly brainwashed.

  126. .

    Sanctimonious prat.
    Typical PhD in blog level tripe.

    You asked for it, Princess.

    Put down the Marie Claire, stop pretending you are going to have kids and suck it up.

  127. Anon

    Admit it – you are just angry because you have some part in this scam and you don’t like people upsetting you when you think you are going to lay in the cut and they protest to your racketeering.

    Not even slightly angry, just amused that morons like you think that posting a whole load of gratuitous crap here will actually make a difference – to anything!!!

    Turns out that I do.

    Of course. A legend in your own lunchtime. Easy to flush out too!!!

    Now fuck off!

    Gladly, to escape this moronic diatribe.

  128. .

    “This is gratuitous, so I’m leaving, to look like less of a self described arsehat”

    Okay, thanks for playing.

  129. Gab

    morons like you

    lol after sanctimoniously lecturing you for using mean words, he/she/it goes and does the same.

  130. Anon

    “This is gratuitous, so I’m leaving, to look like less of a self described arsehat”

    Okay, thanks for playing.

    It’s been a pleasure. You’re typical LDP? I hope not.

  131. .

    You’re not angry – but are you part of the scam?

    Some honesty would be highly appreciated.

    Again, you don’t have any arguments.

    At all.

    Fuck off. People don’t want to pay more for childcare because you are politically connected and can have a politician articifically make something more expensive.

    You’re a leech.

  132. Anon

    You’re not angry – but are you part of the scam?

    Go back and read my first post. No involvement. My contention here was always Judith Sloan’s condescension on Q&A.

    Some honesty would be highly appreciated.

    No political viewpoint on this. But to satisfy the debate, I’d probably agree that a degree is totally unnecessary as posted by many above. (Gee, we’re almost friendly now!). But I don’t get my knickers in a knot over it. I do get my knickers in a knot over the attitudes repeatedly pedalled by Sloan. She’s not an economist’s bootlace.

  133. Sinclair Davidson

    . – you’re very angry this morning.

  134. wirilda

    Thank’s for ensuring the country’s child care workers and their families won’t be voting for the LNP!

  135. Gab

    My contention here was always Judith Sloan’s condescension on Q&A. I do get my knickers in a knot over the attitudes repeatedly pedalled by Sloan. She’s not an economist’s bootlace.

    More vitriol, more sanctimony, more insults – and all becuase Judith had the temerity to express her honest opinion. If calling them “dimwits” has upset you so much, then clearly there is a ton of truth in Judith’s words.

  136. Infidel Tiger

    No political viewpoint on this.

    Code for: Big government leftist.

  137. .

    Sinclair,

    I’m angry?

    See Gab’s response.

    Idiocy, lies and caterwauling.

    You just have a gutful of “Anon” and “wirilda”.

    Anon is a fool. You don’t like Judith’s tone and think she isn’t a good economist? Then don’t buy a fucking consultancy report from her.

  138. Anon

    More vitriol, more sanctimony, more insults

    No, just accurate description of her condescension on topic. But I’m sure Judith Sloan can fight her own battles without your defence of the indefensible.

  139. Gab

    Thank’s for ensuring the country’s child care workers and their families won’t be voting for the LNP!

    lol more infantile comment. No wonder Dot gets angry, he doesn’t suffer fools.

  140. Judith deserves a Nobel Prize for luring out from under their rocks, so many of the self obsessed Lefties who want a free ride on the public udder for the term of their unnatural lives.
    Suck it up bludgers, your time is running out.

  141. Tom

    She’s not an economist’s bootlace.

    Translation: I am John Maynard Keynes’ sex slave.

  142. wirilda

    Thanks for the accolades 🙂

  143. Anon

    Idiocy, lies and caterwauling.
    Anon is a fool.

    LMFAO… you fucking moron. There. I’ve sunk to your level. Happy now?
    I’m gone.

  144. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Sinc, dot’s in splendid form with the mouth-breathers lured out from under their flat rocks. It’s all so hugely enjoyable!

    Aside from watching the worthless ALPgreenfilther ‘government’ blither and blunder from one colossal balls-up to another that is. Best entertainment in weeks.

  145. Armadillo

    Where’s Anon gone? Ahhh, lunch time at the union office? He’ll be back about 4.

  146. Tom

    Thanks, Mont. Judith, forget economics — you’re a genius of political strategy. You’ve got the entire leftard dumbosphere howling like monkeys because you’ve pressed the sacred button of truth that says: everything the left touches becomes more expensive!

  147. Empire Strikes Back

    A vigorous and spirited prosecution of the case for the fourth branch of government – special interests – by Anon/ Wirilda.
    All the best for your super certified early childhood indoctrination institutions. I have no doubt there will be a niche demand for the product you are determined to bring to market, but do not compel me to buy or subsidise it.

  148. m0nty

    A selection of Twitter outrage:

    Jason Wilson [email protected]_a_w
    Judith Sloan’s preferred daycare provider.

    Mike Stuchbery [email protected]
    I mean, Christ, what does Judith Sloan even do? Write for Catallaxy Files? That’s two chardonnay away from the Pickering Post.

    Pablo Paolo [email protected]
    Judith Sloan lectures at Melb Uni which has Early Childhood teaching courses. She consider hers own employer as “a second rate uni”? #auspol

    Monicas wckd stpmthr [email protected]_WS
    Did Margie go to the “wrong” university? RT @geeksrulz: Don’t watch #qanda but it appears Judith Sloan had a go at Margie Abbott.

    Van Badham [email protected]
    I am really very curious for Judith Sloan to list her 2nd- and 3rd-rate universities.

    John [email protected]_Hanna
    Just think. These mad Liberals could easily appoint Judith Sloan to the Reserve Bank.
    #RecessionQueen

    Fel [email protected]
    Judith Sloan has clearly never met my mother and after her comments about early childcare workers, she’d better pray she never does! #qanda

    AshGhebranious [email protected]
    Judith Sloan advises to not risk your children getting 2nd rate uni education. Voting LNP will ensure they dont pass a 3rd rate high school

    kerrie demsin [email protected]
    Oh dear Judith Sloan. How patronising in relation to both child care workers and our universities.

    Darren Ferrari [email protected]
    So, it’s open season on Judith Sloan on the blogs now?

    [Fixed that. Sinc]

  149. m0nty

    Oops! Link button fail, sorry about that.

  150. Gab

    monty doing his best to get attention by cutting and pasting a series of tweets. Clearly you are in no danger of overwhelming that brain of yours with an original thought.

  151. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Zing!

  152. candy

    Well Monty I think that’s a little small minded of your Twitter friends.
    One inappropriate word – ‘dimwit’ and they’re down on her like a ton of bricks.

    What’s the world coming to when people become so abusive on social media, hidden by screen names.

    Personally I think it’s because Ms Sloan is a conservative that this is happening and nothing to do with her points of view on the rising costs of child care.

  153. m0nty

    Gab, coming from you that is a joke. I can’t recall you having a long, drawn out discussion about anything on this blog.

  154. m0nty

    What’s the world coming to when people become so abusive on social media, hidden by screen names.

    Alright, “candy”.

  155. Infidel Tiger

    Oh no, Judith has upset some 1st rate dickheads with 2nd rate degrees.

  156. Gab

    monty’s pithy (haha) reply: nyah nyah and you too! How original.

  157. twostix

    All childcare worker’s I know have an extremely hard job, they need to build attachments with child and family before the child commences at the centre, observe each individual child during the day then write about their development through what they have observed, They often bring their work home writing portfolios, connecting it to the eylf frame work and programing activities for each child that will interest them and also enhance their development skills.

    lol.

    See what they’re doing? They’re applying the well worn “poor struggling teacher who has to take work home” narrative to twenty year old daycare workers who apparently have children sitting down each day doing Very Important Learning.

    This Very Important Learning being a bit of craft, some sing song and lots of barely supervised playing – all of which apparently requires a university degree to manage.

    What’s really going on here is they’re attempting to extend primary school downwards, and after they succeed in turning “Early learning” (aka daycare) into a state apparatus expect the calls for it to be compulsory to increase rapidly – in the name of the children and future economic output of course.

    There will be a time in the near future where people will simply not be able to believe that in the “bad old days” of today children’s parents weren’t forced to send their kids to “school” until they were five or six. To imagine this apply the condescending, contemptuous way people today think about children 80 years ago not being forced to start “school” until they were 6-7.

    That’s the end game here.

  158. candy

    I don’t do Twitter or abuse people, Monty.

  159. .

    Anon #900791, posted on June 25, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    Idiocy, lies and caterwauling.
    Anon is a fool.
    LMFAO… you fucking moron. There. I’ve sunk to your level. Happy now?
    I’m gone.

    You can’t please this guy. Present an argument he ignores it. Insult him and he’s unhappy, even though he makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Says he’s gone and comes back. Gets angry about abuse then engages in it when an argument is presented.

    Maybe he’ll need some counselling after the election.

  160. .

    There will be a time in the near future where people will simply not be able to believe that in the “bad old days” of today children’s parents weren’t forced to send their kids to “school” until they were five or six. To imagine this apply the condescending, contemptuous way people today think about children 80 years ago not being forced to start “school” until they were 6-7.

    That’s the end game here.

    Yet outcomes were comparable or better.

    Years of school and age restrictions on adolescent employment are make work scams?

    Who'd thunk it!?

  161. twostix

    Isn’t the most insulting thing here childless leftists telling daycare workers that their Tafe qualifcations are worthless and that they are incompetent without a university degree?

  162. .

    Wow, I’m sorry.

    There will be a time in the near future where people will simply not be able to believe that in the “bad old days” of today children’s parents weren’t forced to send their kids to “school” until they were five or six. To imagine this apply the condescending, contemptuous way people today think about children 80 years ago not being forced to start “school” until they were 6-7.

    That’s the end game here.

    Yet outcomes were comparable or better.

    Years of school and age restrictions on adolescent employment are make work scams?

    Who’d thunk it!?

  163. .

    twostix #900850, posted on June 25, 2013 at 12:39 pm
    Isn’t the most insulting thing here childless leftists telling daycare workers that their Tafe qualifcations are worthless and that they are incompetent without a university degree?

    Especially when they have a higher degree in macrame, and denigrate Ph D educated econiomist Judy Sloan who called bullshit on their rorting.

  164. Sinclair Davidson

    The young man from Q&A is bragging on Twitter.

  165. Andrew

    Just amazes me that people think that a university lecturer and a text book can somehow teach someone how to take care of a child. Soon you will be forced to have a degree to actually have a child…madness.

  166. twostix

    A selection of Twitter outrage:

    Lol m0nty’s down to cutting and pasting “outrage” from Twitter. Next up: Some posts of the graffiti in the toilets in the university dorms.

  167. twostix

    Just amazes me that people think that a university lecturer and a text book can somehow teach someone how to take care of a child. Soon you will be forced to have a degree to actually have a child…madness.

    Political left to Tafe Graduates: /sneer/ Sorry, but you’re simply worthless without a degree. /sneer/

  168. .

    I have nothing against childcare workers, but it is a joke that they need a cert III by Jan 1 2014 or they can’t work in a childcare centre.

    Really, a cert III dumbs stuff down to the level of an illiterate who didn’t pass year nine.

    A cert III used to be a trade qualificaiton.

    I think part of this is a nasty scheme to devalue tradespeople by bitter pen pushers.

  169. H B Bear

    Political left to Tafe Graduates: /sneer/ Sorry, but you’re simply worthless without a degree. /sneer/

    Even if it is only from a Dawkins Uni, which are just jumped up teachers colleges in the first place.

  170. Bill

    Theres no point in University qualifications for people with an IQ of warm water, whether they are kiddie care staff, “personal trainers”, or whatever. At least Judith must have livened up Q & A, even if she wasn’t entirely correct.

    If AbbotAbottAbbott promises to reduce child care costs, he will win a lot more votes than he loses.

  171. dd

    I have nothing against childcare workers, but it is a joke that they need a cert III by Jan 1 2014 or they can’t work in a childcare centre.

    It’s not a joke, it’s an outrage.

    It will actually lower the quality of child care staff, because there will be a smaller pool of potential employees. The centres will have to keep employing from the same small pool of the “qualified” carers.

  172. Eleanor De Vere

    I’m sure Mr. Abbott was thrilled to hear his wife’s profession described in such a patronising derogatory way !

  173. dd

    This is one of the hundreds of “reforms” that the Gillard administration have pushed through that will stay, if Abbott has an O’Farrell style steady-as-she-goes approach.

    (ie leaving the bulk of the Labor legacy intact). At best they’ll tinker with it and make a few amendments. Our politicians are terrified of repeal.

  174. twostix

    I think part of this is a nasty scheme to devalue tradespeople by bitter pen pushers.

    They did exactly the same thing to the social work industry. Tafe qualifications all of a sudden were decreed worthless and university degrees became a requirement and thousands left the field. The difference in socioeconomic background and world experience between the tafe graduates that retired from the field and the fresh, new, suitably middleclass uni graduates that entered was rather obvious.

  175. twostix

    I’m sure Mr. Abbott was thrilled to hear his wife’s profession described in such a patronising derogatory way !

    How does that even make sense?

    I hope that this expereince demonstrates that m0nty and Steve are more or less the cream of the crop when it comes to the left.

  176. Julie

    I am appalled that you would put forth such a poor assessment of childcare workers – how dare you! As a parent of two young children the childcare centre and staff that I have encountered have been exceptional. Great attention is paid to developing learning activities, social engagement and helping children develop the precursor skills for the next educational setting. I find your comments totally offensive. Why do we need a number of university graduates working in childcare settings – they are educators! They aren’t simply involved in changing nappies, playing and feeding. Consider the diversity across the children in each setting – appropriate skills and education enhance the ability of the centre to incorporate and cater for individual needs such as disability, race, language, culture. You trivialize the role and the significance that they play in supporting children develop. Maybe you need to visit a few centres and see what is actually involved.

  177. Infidel Tiger

    I’m sure Mr. Abbott was thrilled to hear his wife’s profession described in such a patronising derogatory way !

    Take a seat in the naughty corner you dim witted bint. We are not besmirching child care workers, but the stupid credentialism that is fouling up every single industry in this country with red tape and layer upon layer of bureaucracy.

    No child care worker worth a damn needs a university degree.

    Did you you have to take Women’s Studies courses to learn to be a sheila?

  178. Infidel Tiger

    I hope that this expereince demonstrates that m0nty and Steve are more or less the cream of the crop when it comes to the left.

    I know. I rather miss them when compared to the current crop off mouth breathers who can’t take a dump without having it signed off in triplicate by their government appointed carer.

  179. Gab

    I’m sure Mr. Abbott was thrilled to hear his wife’s profession described in such a patronising derogatory way !

    Lucky for voters Mr Abbott doesn’t concern himself with such trivialities as who called who a mean name. I guess that comes from taking personal abuse from the Prime Screecher for more than five years. I would hope Mr Abbott is more interested in how to reduce the escalating costs of childcare that working families have to pay for thanks to gillard.

  180. H B Bear

    Oh noes the Twitters are upset. The Kony2012 people don’t like me.

  181. peter bryant

    The question to you on Q&A last night has led me to your blog and your comment about “dim-witted graduates from second rate universities.” My “dim-witted” daughter left school after yr12 and did a Cert 3 in Childcare while working at a Childcare Centre near our home. She did very well in both the practice and the theory. She then undertook a 4yr degree in Early Childhood Education at QUT (hardly a second-rate university). She got top marks in her subjects and got the Dean’s Excellence Award in her final year. She sought a job with Education Queensland but could get nothing despite being an S5 (highest level). So, she took contracts with various childcare centres and is now lead teacher for the Pre-prep cohort at Habitat Early Learning Centre. She works extremely hard, loves the children and brings considerable expertise to the centre wrt play-based learning. You could learn much from her and if you did educate yourself a little better instead of going off on political rants the world might even be a slightly better place. Something to think about.

  182. twostix

    This is one of the hundreds of “reforms” that the Gillard administration have pushed through that will stay, if Abbott has an O’Farrell style steady-as-she-goes approach.

    Julie Bishop, under Howard, demanded that the age of compulsion for school be lowered to four. The Liberals are happy with this plank of the long march. What I’d like to know is how this policy of having nearly all children raised from when they’re toddlers by government approved specialists is any different to the 1922 Bolshevik policy of having all children raised from when they were toddlers by government approved specialists.

    They’re both rooted in exactly the same premises: Government approved trained specialists are better at raising children than unqualified parents are, that both adults must work.

  183. Infidel Tiger

    I find your comments totally offensive. Why do we need a number of university graduates working in childcare settings – they are educators! They aren’t simply involved in changing nappies, playing and feeding. Consider the diversity across the children in each setting – appropriate skills and education enhance the ability of the centre to incorporate and cater for individual needs such as disability, race, language, culture. You trivialize the role and the significance that they play in supporting children develop. Maybe you need to visit a few centres and see what is actually involved.

    Sweetheart, there are iPad apps that can do all those things. The child care centre’s job is to entertain and keep them safe them until mummy picks them up, not hothouse them in some post modern biodome.

  184. twostix

    They aren’t simply involved in changing nappies, playing and feeding.

    No, there’s the extremely complex “craft” and “singing” domains too. That’s at least a semester each to master.

  185. Sinclair Davidson

    play-based learning

    There is something that drains imaginative play out of kids. A form of indoctrination if there ever was one. Adults deciding how kids should play.

  186. Infidel Tiger

    Julie Bishop, under Howard, demanded that the age of compulsion for school be lowered to four.

    Her vast experience as a mother I’m sure.

  187. Infidel Tiger

    play-based learning

    Johnny will now do a finger painting of a post dangerous climate change world.

  188. Infidel Tiger

    She got top marks in her subjects and got the Dean’s Excellence Award in her final year. She sought a job with Education Queensland but could get nothing despite being an S5 (highest level)

    Sounds like she wasted years of her life obataining a degree that wasn’t useful.

    To think she could have been working in a child care centre all along doing a perfectly fine job, but instead she was forced to obtain useless bits of paper that didn’t help her in any way shape or form.

  189. .

    I am appalled that you would put forth such a poor assessment of childcare workers – how dare you!

    I’m chagrined that you’re appalled.

    If anyone on this blog has out down childcare workers, so has the credentialism mob. “No cert III, you’re too dumb to do this job”…come on now.

    As a parent of two young children the childcare centre and staff that I have encountered have been exceptional.

    I don’t doubt you. Are they exceptional because they have a cert III or B Ed (Early Childhood)? Or are they just great people who work hard and like kids?

    Don’t you think it is condescending to say you can’t be a good childcare worker if you don’t have a uni degree, or joke of a certificate?

    Great attention is paid to developing learning activities, social engagement and helping children develop the precursor skills for the next educational setting.

    There are no precursor skills for primary learning beyond being raised in a normal, non abusive household…by a single mum, two dads, grandma or a traditional family.

    Sorry…I didn’t go to preschool and I am doing a Ph D. I went very well at school, until I found booze, cars and girls turning into women…

    I find your comments totally offensive.

    There is nothing offensive about them.

    Why do we need a number of university graduates working in childcare settings – they are educators!

    Sorry but you are wrong. I have freinds you might call pedagogy rebels. They are school teachers and they question the value of teachers going to university…and they are either doing education post grad or sciences later on.

    They aren’t simply involved in changing nappies, playing and feeding.

    Most of the time, they are. This is how children at this age learn, for the most part. I have never denied there is value in Early Childhood education as a field of study, just making it widespread.

    Consider the diversity across the children in each setting – appropriate skills and education enhance the ability of the centre to incorporate and cater for individual needs such as disability, race, language, culture.

    So…why then would you centrally plan this?

    You trivialize the role and the significance that they play in supporting children develop.

    No, I don’t.

    Maybe you need to visit a few centres and see what is actually involved.

    I have when looking after my friends’ children and I could see no difference between the playgroup and “early education centre”.

  190. Sinclair Davidson

    twostix – too harsh. I spent some time at uni conspiring to fornicate (well a lot of time, but I’m relating a specific instance) with a young lady studying pre-school – she was doing a diploma and not a degree and I’m sure she has been a great pre-school teacher. Anyway, during those frustrating times I did a lot a craft – colouring in, cutting out, and pasting stuff into her art portfolio. I understand why gen y might need a uni degree to do all that.

  191. brc

    Peter Bryant : finally a somewhat rational statement from someone.

    Good lick and best wishes to your daughter, i’m sure you’re rightfully proud.

    While the use of the ‘dim witted’ description has become the issue, what the story is actually about is making the government (a) compell anyone who wants to work in childcare to follow your daughters path, and (b) compell taxpayers to subsidise people who follow that path when childcare becomes unaffordable.

    What it sound like is that your daughter wished to be a primary teacher, and when that want available,chose to offer her services to childcare instead. All fine. But childcare is not primary school and most people don’t want it to become that way. If someone does, then by all means allow people to open pre-prep schools and pay for the extra tuition. Just don’t force anyone who wants to work in childcare to join a union, complete pointless study and then ask for taxpayer money.

  192. .

    To think she could have been working in a child care centre all along doing a perfectly fine job, but instead she was forced to obtain useless bits of paper that didn’t help her in any way shape or form.

    That’s offensive!

    No, it isn’t.

    Pete’s bright young daughter ought to think of opening her own chain of centres, she’s eminently qualified.

    The idea that she needs her quals to be an employee, is totally and utterly bonkers.

  193. Andrew

    Mike Stuchbery [email protected]
    I mean, Christ, what does Judith Sloan even do? Write for Catallaxy Files? That’s two chardonnay away from the Pickering Post.

    This was the ‘best’ tweet. Look in the mirror Stutchbery, you muppet.

  194. Jane Hardwick

    I cannot get over your complete arrogance and lack of knowledge in your ‘opinion’ on childcare. Your belittling of workers, (‘dim-wits’) who study for a degree to be eligible to work in the childcare industry, and then to be paid not much more than the basic wage. Most, not all, but most have a sincere passion to work with and educate children, and it is not about the wages. No matter what you think of the system, you do not have the right to belittle the worker. It was good to see you squirm on A&A under Tony’s questioning. It was obvious how small minded and one sided you have become. And as most childcare workers are females, your hypocrisy is overwhelming.

  195. .

    LOL she’s a former oil and gas exec and an economics Ph D.

  196. bec

    Offensive commentary to say the least. Most parents have a close, trusting and respectful relationship with the educators looking after their children in childcare. I question if you have ever had children of your own in childcare?

    The educators caring for my 2 children while I work 3 days per week are brilliant, committed, and educated. I know my kids are learning and developing skills in a caring and structured environment, and I value their commitment to their profession by seeking out further and higher education.
    Our fees are $75 per day fee but we get 50% back – in fact, I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators. They earn so little but deserve so much more.

    Once upon a time not that long ago nurses were not university educated – but instead trained in the field to become registered. If you had a serious or terminal condition, would you like to be cared for by an educated university graduate?

  197. Andrew

    Geez, the leftie trolls have invaded the Cat. Along with the ‘stop the boats’ policy, we need a ‘stop the leftie trolls’ for the Cat. Perhaps we can lock the trolls up in a form of detention such as a specific blog on here and then give them a temporary protection visa where they will be eventually sent back to Twitter or the GetUp! website.

  198. .

    The question to you on Q&A last night has led me to your blog and your comment about “dim-witted graduates from second rate universities.”

    Don’t be precious.

    There are third rate unis with absurdly low ATARs “teaching” haflwits how to be “educators”, and you wouldn’t want them to educate your dog.

  199. brc

    Catallaxy Files? That’s two chardonnay away from the Pickering Post.

    Liberty quote?

  200. m0nty

    Anyway, during those frustrating times I did a lot a craft – colouring in, cutting out, and pasting stuff into her art portfolio.

    And you still didn’t get to fornicate? Poor Sinc.

  201. m0nty

    Good lick and best wishes to your daughter

    Oh dear, brc.

  202. twostix

    Geez, the leftie trolls have invaded the Cat. Along with the ‘stop the boats’ policy, we need a ‘stop the leftie trolls’ for the Cat. Perhaps we can lock the trolls up in a form of detention such as a specific blog on here and then give them a temporary protection visa where they will be eventually sent back to Twitter or the GetUp! website.

    Most of them are just drive by comment assassins. They don’t know what has actually even been said: Note that they’re “critisising” Judith for saying things she didn’t even say, they’re twitterati mob who have heard, from a friend of a friend on Twitter that they must be simply outraged that this evil IPA woman said “all daycare workers” are second rate dimwits.

    Which of course is not something Judith ever said. But mention IPA on Twitter and the mob gins itself up and makes its own narrative and then the hunt begins.

    Like Menugate – which is still widely believed by these very people to have been personally written and signed and passed around personally by Mal Brough.

  203. brc

    Good lick and best wishes to your daughter

    Oh dear, brc.

    Crap.

    Luck. I meant luck.

  204. Sinclair Davidson

    Yep. Liberty Quote.

  205. Ellen

    The OECD ranked Finland No. 1 in international assessment for student performance, out of 57 countries. From the age of eight months, all children in Finland have access to free, full – day care and kindergarten. Finland has had universal access to daycare in place since 1990, and to preschool since 1996.

    Preschool teachers are university trained, and both preschool and primary school teachers are highly respected in Finnish society, with the teaching profession being one of the country’s most sought after jobs.

    So, Finland has consistently been among the highest scorers world wide in the OECD international assessment for student performance, built on the platform of free universal access to preschool programs delivered by highly respected, university trained teachers. Wonder if a bunch of untrained arse wipers would deliver these results?

  206. Sinclair Davidson

    These drive past threadsters are increasing the traffic and if they leave more angry than when they arrived our work is done. 🙂

  207. Hannah

    Judith,

    I have spent the last two weeks of my working life calling early childhood employees and discussing their industry, and the problems within the sector that need to be addressed. I would estimate that I have talked to at least 250 people in the sector.. Where are your sources again, other than your relative who’s a parent with kids in childcare? You’ve made your statements so authoritatively about these dim wits, that I assume you have some form of evidence to back up your statements. Any second rate university student knows that’s the only way to make a valid argument. Perhaps a little more extensive research before you brush every single teacher in the industry with your biased, unfair and completely unfounded judgement.

    I can assure you that the over whelming majority of people I have spoken with are honest, hard working and highly intelligent people who believe that helping children, our future, during the early development stages is extremely important. The teachers – (who are qualified teachers) are capable of being primary school teachers, however this year there has been extremely low employment opportunities for graduate teachers in schools (I spent the earlier half of this year tracking the progress of graduate teachers)..the employment opportunities have shrunk – not due to ‘dim-wittedness’ – well, not that I’ve seen in any publications other than your own.

    You qualified your remark last night on Q&A, trying to reduce the cruelty of your statement by saying in your ‘experience’ they lacked common sense… yes that’s much more fair. Well Judith, what IS your experience? I talked to at least five hundred graduate teachers extensively this year, and I certainly did not find them dim-witted or lacking in common sense.

    Publishing unfounded derogatory comments on the internet, about an entire group of people who you don’t know, isn’t very sensible. Awkwardly gurgling on national television about ‘common sense’ regarding a group of professionals who you aren’t qualified to judge, is dim-witted.

    So if you don’t mind, on behalf of all professionals out there, I would like to request you don’t abuse your platform or soapbox for the mass defaming of hard working people. It feeds the lowest common denominator and creates a very ugly discourse. If you have a problem with legislation or a policy, attack the policy, not the people who are forced to bend with it.

    So very sincerely,

    Hannah.

  208. Gab

    Geez, the leftie trolls have invaded the Cat. Along with the ‘stop the boats’ policy, we need a ‘stop the leftie trolls’ for the Cat.

    well for Heaven’s sake don’t get gillard onto it otherwise we’ll have a vertible deluge of trolls.

  209. Pickles

    Everything seems to be a profession these days. I thought you had to swear (profess) an oath on a bible or somesuch to enter the “professions”, but I suppose that has been debased to blazes so anyone who goes to TAFE or Tarzan Tech and gets a degree calls themselves a professional. How very inclusive.

    The last thing we want it some toffee nosed smart arse who listened carefully, did all their homework, studied and passed all their exams, got a good pass in the HSC, got into University, did medicine and got admitted to think that their efforts and sucess are in any way better than someone who did childcare.

  210. Gab

    (‘dim-wits’) who study for a degree to be eligible to work in the childcare industry, and then to be paid not much more than the basic wage.

    That’s pretty dumb then. Even dimwitted.

  211. candy

    “The educators caring for my 2 children while I work 3 days per week are brilliant, committed, and educated.”

    That’s nice, Bec, but do they cuddle and console your kids when they are upset or unwell?
    I wouldn’t want to see the best child care workers, the ones with the innate motherly instincts, unable to achieve a degree to work in a field to which they are most suited.
    I’m not convinced at all a university degree is a prerequisite for good instinctive child care.

  212. John Mc

    Most parents have a close, trusting and respectful relationship with the educators looking after their children in childcare.

    Bullshit. Most decent parents are suspicious of leaving their kids in commercial childcare. It’s not something they want to do.

    And a degree holding childcare provider doesn’t make me feel any better about it. Maybe worse!

  213. Snoopy

    I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators. They earn so little but deserve so much more.

    LOL. Here’s a hint. Give your children’s educators a tip from your own pocket. I’m sure they won’t object. If they do, it’s likely they are dim-witted.

  214. Snoopy

    **Breaking News** Child care workers

    believe that helping children, our future, during the early development stages is extremely important.

    Thanks Hannah.

  215. brc

    Everything seems to be a profession these days

    Don’t forget, menu gate guy was worried about his “career” as a part time cook. Once it became clear the working class were not interested in revolutionary overthrow of their evil masters, socialism has been all about denigrating the working class and then offering to escape the denigration by entering the world of higher education.

    Don’t believe me? Ask the average university graduate what a bogan is.

  216. Sinclair Davidson

    If you had a serious or terminal condition, would you like to be cared for by an educated university graduate?

    Is this a trick question?

  217. Snoopy

    I posted this earlier on the other thread. Probably belongs here.

    Judith’s observation about early childhood education graduates seems to be supported by Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR) requirements. At the University of Sydney, the ATAR entry score for ECE is 79.05, the third lowest of all courses (the lowest is 70.1 for a course called Liberal Arts and Science???). At the University of Newcastle the ATAR requirement is just 60.5 at the Ourimbah campus which is the 8th lowest of all courses across two campuses (the lowest entry score being 60).

  218. Gab

    Hilarious, equating a baby-sitter to a surgeon.

  219. stackja

    My mum stayed at home to look after me. Dad worked hard to keep the family. Was not easy. We never went overseas. Unless you call a ferry ride across the harbour over seas. Many want it all now, but the cost is not taken into account. Stay at home mothers have been ridiculed for years. Why?

  220. jumpnmcar

    Woohoo, a Getup campaign focuses on the Cat.
    Best of luck getup, your going to need it with pathetic reverse logic you’ve displayed.

  221. Infidel Tiger

    I can assure you that the over whelming majority of people I have spoken with are honest, hard working and highly intelligent people who believe that helping children, our future, during the early development stages is extremely important.

    I believe the children are the future, teach them well and they will lead the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

    Thanks, Whitney.

  222. Gab

    My mum stayed at home to look after me.

    What? and with no degree qualification to look after you?! Call the police!

    Stay at home mothers have been ridiculed for years. Why?

    They’re traitors to the cause. They’re considered less-than by the feministas.

  223. Tom

    Our fees are $75 per day fee but we get 50% back – in fact, I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators.

    Leftards just love other people’s money.

  224. Token

    If you had a serious or terminal condition, would you like to be cared for by an educated university graduate?

    Is this question posed with an understanding of the work of the sisters of mercy?

  225. Infidel Tiger

    If you had a serious or terminal condition, would you like to be cared for by an educated university graduate?

    If caring for people with terminal illnesses is in anyway comparable to minding kids, then may I suggest you find a less dangerous day care centre.

  226. Fisky

    FTR – I think Judith’s remarks were wrong and indefensible (as we saw by her inability to defend them), but she shouldn’t withdraw the comments or apologise for them in any way.

    Instead, if the Left do ask for an apology from Prof Sloan, we must place the following precondition that would have to be satisfied prior to any apology. To wit:

    a collective apology signed by the entire Left for:

    -supporting the Soviet Union, Mao and Pol Pot during the Cold War
    -employing the serial defamer Bob Ellis and failing to denounce him for his gross misconduct
    -not criticising the extremely offensive Catherine Deveny, and even appointing her as a disability commissioner
    -supporting the Finkelsteining of the non-Leftist media

    Until the Left, at a bare minimum, apologise in full for the above, there should be no apologies from any non-Leftist for anything.

  227. Token

    I can assure you that the over whelming majority of people I have spoken with are honest, hard working and highly intelligent people who believe that helping children

    I’m sure Judith would agree with that, and still say there is not a need for all of them to hold tertiary degrees.

  228. lotocoti

    an educated university graduate

    Nice to see a fan of field training.

  229. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Julia the very obvious child care ‘worker’, nay, ‘educator’.

    I am appalled that you would put forth such a poor assessment of childcare workers – how dare you!

    Unto Hades with thee, harridan. it’s make-work for union members. Let. Small. Children. Play.
    That is all they need up to 4-5 years of age.

    As a parent of two young children the childcare centre and staff that I have encountered have been exceptional.

    So you have had a couple of kids (maybe) and chosen to leave it to strangers to raise them for a significant portion of their lives. My wife and I faced this decision, and chose to raise them ourselves – to do otherwise was to choose to be bad parents. So she stayed home to look after them, and we delayed the material things for 15 years (we have lots more than 2 kids).

    Great attention is paid to developing learning activities, social engagement and helping children develop the precursor skills for the next educational setting.

    So what? They are still not getting what they really need, which is YOUR care and attention.

    I find your comments totally offensive.

    Tough luck.

    Why do we need a number of university graduates working in childcare settings – they are educators!

    Horseshit. They are paid stand-in parents in two or three thin slices of the entire parenting path. You pay them to do a thin slice of YOUR responsibilities which you refuse to do and for what?

  230. twostix

    So, Finland has consistently been among the highest scorers world wide in the OECD international assessment for student performance, built on the platform of free universal access to preschool programs delivered by highly respected, university trained teachers. Wonder if a bunch of untrained arse wipers would deliver these results?

    This is how the way the left refer to the current mass of TAFE qualified daycare workers.

    Level of faux outrage about some hypothetical childcare worker that doesn’t exist? 11/10.
    Level of self awarness of their disgusting slur and contempt for the actual real life TAFE graduates and childcare workers: minus eleventybajillion.

  231. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    jane hardwick – sexist:

    And as most childcare workers are females, your hypocrisy is overwhelming.

    What a foul tarde it is to follow, then, if it does not have half of teh aprticipants male? Why the exclusion? Where is the program to bring up the numbers of males in this field? This is a very sexist field of employment of it is ‘overwhelmingly female’ as you say!

    Why do you support this rampant, blatant sexism?

  232. .

    So, Finland has consistently been among the highest scorers world wide in the OECD international assessment for student performance, built on the platform of free universal access to preschool programs delivered by highly respected, university trained teachers.

    Err, no.

    Finland excels because of the open curricula, sembelance of a voucher system and that they have few exams and primary kids have the same teacher the whole way through.

    Not because they learnt how to count to five before some other kid.

    Again with the Baby Mozart crap.

  233. twostix

    Our fees are $75 per day fee but we get 50% back – in fact, I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators.

    Yes, you who have you have two incomes, have more money, but pay less income tax than I do also demand my family subsidise your lifestyle as well.

    How very equality minded.

  234. irving J

    Our fees are $75 per day fee but we get 50% back – in fact, I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators.

    write a cheque, swipe a credit card and pay more then! Let us know when you do, until then STFU

  235. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    A very pleasant plethora of dumb-as-dirt lefty morons to squish. Good days!

  236. twostix

    Finland excels because of the open curricula, sembelance of a voucher system and that they have few exams and primary kids have the same teacher the whole way through.

    Finland of course is a financial and cultural powerhouse on the forefront of civilization that every nation must immediately emulate.

  237. Infidel Tiger

    If we must emulate Finland it should be in driver training.

  238. H B Bear

    Leftards just love other people’s money.

    Tom – you are missing the point. It’s free. Free education, free healthcare. The Magic Negro understands how this works.

  239. twostix

    FTR – I think Judith’s remarks were wrong and indefensible (as we saw by her inability to defend them), but she shouldn’t withdraw the comments or apologise for them in any way.

    Fisk in response to Judiths jibe about future hypothetical dimwitted university graduates we’ve had leftists come in and unleash an absolute torrent of hate and slander about the actual real life TAFE educated daycare workers of today.

    Refering to them among other things as “untrained arse wipers” while simultaneously other leftists are damning judith because like dimwits they incorrectly think she said something mean about todays Daycare workers.

    The leftist comments “damning” Judith can be distilled down to this:
    “Daycare workers are the most wonderful untrained people on earth, but god knows you wouldn’t trust your kid to them because they haven’t been to university, they’ve only been to TAFE. If they don’t get a uni degree they should be fired. But I love them, they’re wonderful”

  240. brc

    If we must emulate Finland it should be in driver training.

    And mass drinking tourism to neighboring countries to escape our nanny state.

    Never try to beat a Finn in a car race or drinking competiton. Either individually, or at the same time.

  241. Robert Williams

    Tony Abbott wants you to apologise for calling his wife Margie a dimwit. I actually agree that she must have been when she said yes to Tony after he popped the question.

  242. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    brc:

    Never try to beat a Finn in a car race or drinking competiton. Either individually, or at the same time.

    SO that’s where I went wrong!

  243. brc

    Our fees are $75 per day fee but we get 50% back – in fact, I’d pay more if I knew the money would go directly to funding additional wages of the educators.

    Leftie economics:
    – if someone else pays for it, it is free
    – everyone who has more money than me is a rich capitalist pig
    – I would gladly pay more for organic food/renewable energy/early childcare/refugee donations, as long as I get a government payment to do so.

    …can be summed up as ‘I love everyything the free market gives me, but it’s all those other people who should be protected from the evils of capitalism’

  244. Sinclair Davidson

    Judith gets mentioned in dispatches – not up on Youtube yet.

  245. 4Suz EQ

    I am a mother, a degree holding Early Childhhod Teacher, and a child care user.
    I would like to think that many of the views expressed are extreem or ingorant. I note that many of the strong opinions are voiced by individuals without first hand experience of childcare or parenting.
    I am not full time at home mum material. i defy anyone to tell me that my working makes me a less worthy mother.
    I chose to earn an income to purchase the house that supplies my children with a yard (no playstations etc.) This means i earn more but spend much of it on childcare.
    I am neither a feminist, nor an activist.
    I am a woman who has made choices.
    As a director irrespective of your ideology surely the point should be about what is best for the next generation. Childcare is here to stay, support us to do the best job we can….please.

  246. Snoopy

    I am a mother, a degree holding Early Childhhod Teacher, and a child care user.
    I would like to think that many of the views expressed are extreem or ingorant.

    If so, I fervently hope you are also a very poor typist.

  247. Huckleberry Chunkwot

    I am a mother, a degree holding Early Childhhod Teacher, and a child care user.
    I would like to think that many of the views expressed are extreem or ingorant

    Going a fair way to proving Judith’s point.

    I am not full time at home mum material. i defy anyone to tell me that my working makes me a less worthy mother.

    You working makes you a less worthy mother. You are not working out of need, you are working for want.I am supporting my wife as a stay at home mother looking after 3 kids.This is our choice and our responsibility, not yours, and I certainly don’t expect you to pay for my choices.
    As you rightly point out, raising children is our most important job and if you want to abrogate your responsibilities because you are not “stay at home material”, you should not have had kids.
    Don’t try to assuage your guilt by saying that you are doing this to give them a back yard. You are doing this because you are selfish.

    I am a woman who has made choices.

    How dare you expect me to pay for your selfish fucking choices.

  248. Gab

    Childcare is here to stay, support us to do the best job we can….please.

    Thank you for your heartfelt plea…I am almost moved to tears.

    Childcare would be more affordable if the federal government didn’t stick it’s beak in and pushed to bump up qualifications for people who basically provided a baby-sitting service. A TAFE certificate at the very most should be sufficient along with the usual working with children checks and that the environment provided is safe for kids. Any more and it’s wasted on toddlers and babies. There is no added value or benefit in pushing for university qualifications or further tertiary qualifications to look after babies and toddlers – except that it bumps up union membership. The more qualified, the higher the wage and rising costs with price caps is a disaster that this government just does not understand despite a similar problem that has already occurred in the aged care provider industry. I don’t know why people who claim they are educated just do not understand this basic common-sense notions.

    The very idea that taxpayers must pay to subsidise child care is abhorrent and a grand waste of resources.

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