Minutegate and the $10 billion budget black hole

Has Bowen been caught out?  In claiming that there is a $10 billion black hole in the Coalition’s budget savings, he released three confidential minutes from Treasury, Finance and the PBO.  (Interested in the Cat view on this – is this ethical?)

One is dated 5 August and is marked Protected.

Up to their old tricks, prior to the election, the government requested a series of “hypothetical costings” based on some of the Coalition’s policy – viz. abolishing the MRRT and the carbon tax as well as culling 12,000 public servants.  These exercises did not specifically cost the Coalition proposals.

In what could be one of the best smack-downs of the campaign, Parkinson and Tune has released this statement.  Wow, wow, wow.

Statement on Costings by the Department of the Treasury and the Department of Finance and Deregulation
Joint media release with the Department of Finance and Deregulation
 
29 August 2013
 
 
There have been a series of reports today regarding costings undertaken by the Department of the Treasury and the Department of Finance and Deregulation.
 
The Departments of Treasury and Finance were asked to prepare costings on policy options, which were provided to the Departments by the Government prior to the election being called. These costings were completed and submitted to the Government prior to the election being called. This is consistent with long-standing practice.
 
These costings were not prepared under the election costings commitments’ process outlined in the Charter of Budget Honesty Act 1998.
 
At no stage prior to the Caretaker period has either Department costed Opposition policies.
 
Different costing assumptions, such as the start date of a policy, take up assumptions, indexation and the coverage that applies, will inevitably generate different financial outcomes.
 
The financial implications of a policy may also differ depending on whether the costing is presented on an underlying cash balance or fiscal balance basis.
 
The Treasury and Finance costings presented in the advice to Government reported today were presented on an underlying cash balance basis.
 
Dr Martin Parkinson PSM
Secretary
The Treasury
 
Mr David Tune PSM
Secretary
Department of Finance and Deregulation
 
 
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

198 Responses to Minutegate and the $10 billion budget black hole

  1. Samuel J

    Judith – snap!

    Anyhow, I think it is highly unethical of the Government to release these minutes. While previous governments have certainly obtained costing about potential opposition policies, they have not released any minutes.

    To me this highlights (1) that this Government is unfit for office (2) that Parkinson and Tune by costing such sensitive policies such as the abolition of the carbon tax and MRRT which are clearly Opposition policies and equally clearly not Government policies have crossed the line. They should have declined to cost those particular policies as previous Secretaries have done. It’s a big call by a departmental Secretary to decline such a request, but perfectly valid, ethical and courageous

  2. Jock

    The letter has the tone of a very large “butt” covering exercise. The advice should not have been provided as Sam J points out. At the least such advice should have been heavily caveated when given. Large markings in Red to indicate this might have partially exculpated them, but an after the fact letter??

    In my view we need better public servants than these.

  3. Andrew

    Even Laurie Oakes exposed labor as a pack of liars

  4. Just A View

    Watch the love media refer to the ALP hand-outs but ignore this Treasury/Finance press release. I agree with the comment earlier that the Department heads should have declined to provide the costings. I wonder if heads of both departments have Adjunct Professorships appointments and company directorships after an appropriate period of gardening leave organised?

  5. Leigh Lowe

    The letter has the tone of a very large “butt” covering exercise. The advice should not have been provided as Sam J points out.

    I am hoping for a clean-out.
    It would be a fantastic lesson very early for anyone thinking about foot-dragging or sabotaging Coalition policies.
    I think these two chaps should be left alone in the library with a revolver on 8th September to consider “doing the right thing by the Regiment”.
    If not, just fire them.
    No weasel words about “spending more time with the family” …. just fire them.

  6. stevo

    I think this is quite serious.

    While you could say that occasionally mistakes happen, in the heat of the moment, and maybe this one is not endangering anyone’s safety, any information accidental or deliberate information leak has to be treated seriously.

    Can we trust that the correct procedure will be followed in response to this information leak – just like any other public servant would have to follow?

    Bowen was just a few days ago bragging about sitting on the National Security Committee.

    So it makes you wonder, what else might he accidentally leak in the heat of the moment?

  7. Steve of Glasshouse

    I wonder what sort of phone call they can expect at 0200. Hope they record it ..

  8. Samuel J

    Costello would never do this (and never did)

  9. Gab

    Can we trust that the correct procedure will be followed in response to this information leak – just like any other public servant would have to follow?

    No.

  10. Tom

    Credit to Jabba the Hut where it really mattered: he told the low-info voters on the 6pm Nine Network news that Treasury had released a statement disowning the ALP claim of a $10 billion Coalition funding black hole and that Bowen and the Little Shit’s gotcha was bullshit.

    Look forward to Blogstrop’s account of whether the 7pm ALPBC news and 7.30 program report Parkinson’s rejection of being used as an ALP whore.

  11. H B Bear

    Too little, too late Parko. Better think about spending some more time with the family.

  12. Leigh Lowe

    The next time some pompous git on their ABC asks Hockey or Abbott … “surely you are not questioning or criticising the independence of the public service?” I hope they have the balls to say “As a matter of fact, I am. The top echelons anyway” and wave a copy of the confession from Parkinson and Tune.

  13. Rabz

    he released three confidential minutes from Treasury, Finance and the PBO

    None of which are worth the paper they’re printed on.

    C’mon, peoples, I mean really – treasury?

  14. Septimus

    Clearly, this is just not acceptable. It is not within the remit of Treasury or Finance to cost Opposition policies, on a theoretical basis or otherwise. Parkinson and Tune should be required to resign immediately, and so should Bowen and Wong. Rudd, who has jumped at the chance to perpetrate another fraud, should be publicly excoriated for blatantly lying to the Australian public.

  15. PBO statement another smack-down for Krud and Blowin.

  16. Infidel Tiger

    Even Laurie Oakes exposed labor as a pack of liars

    That’s end of days stuff.

  17. Infidel Tiger

    Fairfax are all over this like a rash…that cleared up months ago and isn’t worth reporting.

  18. egg_

    Even Laurie Oakes exposed labor as a pack of liars

    That’s end of days stuff.

    Even Jabba has to rescue his cred from going down with HMAS KRudd?

  19. H B Bear

    The Three Stooges have had this blow up in their face like a box of Acme explosives on the Road Runner.

  20. Leo G

    “At no stage prior to the Caretaker period has either Department costed Opposition policies.
    Different costing assumptions, such as the start date of a policy, take up assumptions, indexation and the coverage that applies, will inevitably generate different financial outcomes.”

    The letter argues that the Departments properly would have used different assumptions in costing Opposition policies. Doesn’t that imply that the Departments were aware the request was improper?

  21. Fairfax are all over this like a rash…that cleared up months ago and isn’t worth reporting.

    ABC mention it, but only as a minor update to a “$10b black hole in Opposition costings” headlined story. The update says the Treas and Fin statement appeared to throw some ‘slight doubt’ on the Government’s claim.

    It is a long road to hoe, I’m afraid.

  22. Token

    At no stage prior to the Caretaker period has either Department costed Opposition policies.

    So he’s saying they did it before the Caretaker period began…

  23. David

    This sorry saga provides the perfect excuse to:
    1. Get rid of the two department heads who authorised this work to be undertaken. Obviously them releasing the statement was a very feeble attempt to protect their jobs but the damage has been done;
    2. Further rationalise the public service focussed on policy advice. Clearly there are three different departments doing the same work. An absolutely classic example of labor waste that needs to be weeded out ruthlessly.

  24. Isaac Hunt

    Some of these Treasury people must know they will be looking for a new job on 09/09.

  25. And Another Thing

    This doesn’t surprise me at all. Labor’s campaign has been run the way it runs governance. It would-be hard to think of such an underhanded, incompetent outfit. This mob has it all, a serial prime minister who would be unable to run a choke raffle, another PM being investigated by police an MP, formerly a union official, charged with fraud, mates given high office, others left as time bombs in it’s crooks quangos and other organizations.

    It is breathtaking that these clowns could turn around and run a scare campaign on what Tony Abbott will do. Who possibly do any worse?

    I know there are rusted-on Labor voters. In the main, they are decent, hard-working people. How on earth could they contemplate giving Rudd another go?

  26. And Another Thing

    Sorry, chook raffle.

  27. Dianne

    Did anyone see Malcolm on the Drum? Damned good!

  28. Jazza

    Goodness gracious me! A hole in the bucket, Dear Henry?
    Haha! Rudd,Wong and Labor should recognise a hole as their budgets have been full of them for six dreary sad years

  29. Chez

    I was watching news of Canberra and Kate Lundy lied about Abbott slashing public service jobs and pulling out funds from Canberra universities! The lying deceitful cow and Andrew Leigh and Gae Brodtman were nodding their cheesey grins in the background! God sometimes I hate living here because of the Labor loving public service!

  30. Amortiser

    This is reminiscent of the Ralph Willis stuff up in the dying days of the 1996 campaign. This is the ALP through and through and Rudd has the hide to call Abbott a liar. Truly astonishing!!!!

  31. Splatacrobat

    So treasury compares Abbott’s costings with Labor’s assumptions and get a black hole?
    Sounds more like comparing apples with oranges and getting chocolate……………oh wait that brown stuff ain’t chocolate?

  32. Makka

    The problem is the public have become de-sensitised to the Lies and Deceit of the Leftfilth scum. They have been subjected to such bullshit overload for the last 6 years, there no longer seems to be the outrage when this nest to vipers generates crap like this. The media protects these Union-grad slime from what should be public humiliation and righteous retribution.

  33. .

    Like I said, I know a chick with a degree in NUTRITION who works at DECC.

    FFS.

  34. Bruce

    Media reports:

    Two weeks ago it was a $70 billion LNP black hole.
    Last week it was a $30 billion LNP black hole.
    This week it is a $10 billion LNP black hole.

    (Do I detect a regression line somewhere? Nah, can’t be. The ALP thinks ‘least squares’ are coalition backbenchers.)

    Next week it will be a $40 billion ALP budget deficit.

    Ok, just kidding on the last one. The MSM are so predictable.

  35. Rob MW

    This sounds like a job for the ‘Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’ (ASADA) to investigate ?

    It would go something like this; (tic) – on the same day as ‘Sportsbet’ closes the books on the result of the election the Dept of Treasury and the Dept of Finance and Deregulation issued a joint press release to cover their own arses. The assumption would be that either, or both, that the 2 gentlemen concerned took performance enhancing supplements or, some inappropriate betting took place./sarc

    I can just see the ABC & Fairfax scandallines now……………..“Abbott……Abbott….Abbott Rigs the 2013 Election – Supplement and Betting Scandal – Worst Day in Australia’s Election History”

    Or then again maybe it is as simple as taking care of one’s job security !!!

  36. JMH

    Oh – I cannot wait for their MSM luvvies bringing this to the fore. Just as well I don’t plan to hold my breath.

    I seriously hope Abbott and Hockey run with this – and run hard. I cannot believe any thinking Australian remains rusted on to this pack of lying/criminal Labor scum.

  37. This sounds like a job for the ‘Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority’ (ASADA) to investigate ?

    In concert with Demetrious Investigations and Framing Services.

  38. dover_beach

    The Rudd-Gillard-Rudd government, like the Obama Administration, is intellectually and morally dishonest. They must be punished in Opposition. Everything that can be done, culturally, intellectually, and politically, to prejudice the Left’s cause must be done.

    Sinistra delenda est!

  39. Infidel Tiger

    The ABC said that Treasury officials had “weakened” the governments attack. FMD.

  40. blogstrop

    Sorry to disappoint, Tom, but I decided to have a break from the news and 7.30 tonight. It’s such rubbish!

  41. Econocrat

    If Parkinson is in his office on Monday 9 September, Tony Abbott must resign.

  42. M Ryutin

    This overreach by the Rudd circus and (apparently)unprecedented statement by heads of Treasury and Finance (the PBO has now also issued a similar statement) could cause very heavy political damage in addition to the usual credibility question about Rudd and Co. Its timing seems similar to the Ralph Willis overreach in 1996 and that seemed to be one of the final nails then, so far as changing minds back was concerned.

    I wasn’t paying that much attention to the bluster of Rudd, Wong and Bowen today (thinking that 1. voters eyes glaze over at these sorts of usual debates about costings etc, and 2. That Abbott and co would also stand by their costings by the PBO and bluff it out without any strong conclusion either way until late next week – when the die was cast – and then we all would know for sure).

    However, I did see Rudd typically go big on this with “fraud” actually mentioned. To later see the idea of just what caveats has been blacked out from the documents released by the Rudd machine and then some argument about differing accounting methods, followed by a terribly weak appearance by Penny Wong on Sky this afternoon and then Josh Frydenburg tryng to king hit it all with the news about the Treasury/Finance statement being an ‘unprecedented intervention’ which had wrecked the dodgy claim, you could see the wheels falling off.

    I laughed to myself when I saw Laurie Oakes weigh in. He was the only Rudd-Lover media hold out of note, Hartcher gradually cutting Rudd loose over the course of the campaign until he, too, seemed to write him off completely today, making fun of the Penny Wong effort in the process. Oakes didn’t miss and it seems that his speed dial number on Rudd’s phone will be deleted soon. I suppose that certain media (yes, the Usual Suspects) might be equivocal towards giving this false ‘fraud’ claim the attention that it deserves but it won’t turn the momentum like it was intended to do and could, if it gets traction across all media, be a savage blow to the ALP and push that vote even lower – perhaps to basement levels.

  43. Peter S

    Lovely. To clever by half. They are getting desperate.

  44. val majkus

    A grand expose of Labor heavyweights in the course of a day – totally dishonest and non ethical as well

  45. I am the Walrus, koo koo k'choo

    I know there are rusted-on Labor voters. In the main, they are decent, hard-working people. How on earth could they contemplate giving Rudd another go?

    Cue Leonard Nimoy voiceover and the ‘Great Mysteries of the World’ music.

  46. In the last thread, Samuel wails about Treasury costing opposition policies in contravention of convention. Yet Treasury officials write a letter saying they did not cost opposition policies, and Judith calls this a smackdown. Who of… Samuel?

    You lot seem to be trying to have it both ways here. Either the policies submitted by Bowen are close enough to opposition policy that the costings are accurate, in which case Treasury is under pressure and Judith is wrong, or they are not accurate, which means Samuel is wrong and Bowen is under pressure. You can’t argue both at once.

  47. Gab

    Please stop embarrassing yourself, monty.

  48. You really can’t think of anything original to say at all, can you Gab?

  49. Gab

    Neither can you. monty. At least I don’t lie like you do.

  50. candy

    Kevin Rudd calling Tony Abbott a “fraud” today is just despicable.

    I can’t believe I thought KRudd was a good bloke and had sympathy for him after 2010. He’s a nasty piece of work.

  51. JC

    Monster, not you’re very smart, are you, which offers another clue why you were booted out of 1 st year Monash Economics.

    Government representatives have made claims that the opposition’s policies have been costed and found to have :

    Two weeks ago it was a $70 billion LNP black hole.
    Last week it was a $30 billion LNP black hole.
    This week it is a $10 billion LNP black hole.

    It’s correct what SJ says, that the Treasury ought to have point blank refused to cost out polices handed to them by the government incorporating the repeal of the carbonic tax etc because these were clearly opposition policies.

    Having come clean, because they’re panicked about their jobs and reputations, the senior dickheads at Treasury have suggested that the costings they handed to the government no way invalidate the opposition’s policies as we don’t know the accounting standards being used nor such things as the start dates etc.

    This is a twofer, Fatboy.

    Treasury clearly shows the Liars Party is lying… as though we even needed them to tell us.,

    Treasury was well and truly caught out playing politics.

    You really are a fat stupid twit Monster.

  52. JC

    I can’t believe I thought KRudd was a good bloke and had sympathy for him after 2010. He’s a nasty piece of work.

    And for two years we’ve been telling you…. and now you realize? Slow poke.

  53. JC

    I know you are, but what am I?

    A fat, nasty, spiteful communist. You really needed someone to tell you?

  54. val majkus

    Parkinson and Tune by costing such sensitive policies such as the abolition of the carbon tax and MRRT which are clearly Opposition policies and equally clearly not Government policies have crossed the line. They should have declined to cost those particular policies as previous Secretaries have done

    I don’t think it’s necessary to look at what’s happened with such rigidity – The media release states:

    The Departments of Treasury and Finance were asked to prepare costings on policy options, which were provided to the Departments by the Government prior to the election being called. These costings were completed and submitted to the Government prior to the election being called. This is consistent with long-standing practice

    Treasury were not to know whether or not the Govt might do a back flip of one or more of its policies, the point is it was the Govt who asked and Treasury is there to provide advice to the Govt on economic policy and because it was the Govt who asked I don’t see what Treasury did to be beyond its brief.
    How what Treasury did was used brought Treasury’s work beyond its brief.
    I personally think it was courageous of the two officials to issue a public statement as they did
    That’s speaking as a lay person

  55. Will

    I personally think it was courageous of the two officials to issue a public statement as they did
    That’s speaking as a lay person

    If you were working in a well-paid public sinecure and your boss asks you to do something, and your boss was a Minister of the Crown, I think most people would oblige. The only circumstances where you might choose the unemployment option of refusal are if you are asked to do something illegal.

  56. JC

    Will

    1.They aren’t supposed to be costing opposition’s policies without the express request from the opposition.

    2. As SJ suggests, they did so knowing full well these polices were the opposition’s not not the governments.

    3. They realized the cat was out of the bag when the Government began to talk.

    I personally think it was courageous of the two officials to issue a public statement as they did

    There’s nothing courageous about what they did. They’re only trying to protect their skins with the incoming government. They’re actually fucking greasy cowards and spiteful leftist partisan blowhards.

  57. twostix

    I know you are, but what am I?

    A lying grub?

  58. iamok

    The lie just repeated now on 7 two news headlines as fact. 8.50pm.

  59. Rabz

    They’re actually fucking greasy cowards and spiteful leftist partisan blowhards.

    Abbott needs to announce they’ve been jobsacked as of Sunday September 8.

    Then they need to be arrested.

  60. iamok

    I can’t believe I thought KRudd was a good bloke and had sympathy for him after 2010. He’s a nasty piece of work.

    I can’t believe it took you that long. I (and many others) picked him on Sunrise with his mate Kochie pre-2007 as a prime tosser who was all spin and no substance. He has got progressively worse since.

    Again – how did it take so long?

  61. DMS

    ABC Newsradio have mentioned this on every bulletin since late afternoon. Not a massive ahah – but more than in passing.

    Too late to try and look balanced now guys.

  62. val majkus

    If you were working in a well-paid public sinecure and your boss asks you to do something, and your boss was a Minister of the Crown, I think most people would oblige.

    Will, I don’t know, Samuel J says previous Treasury Secretaries have declined to cost Opposition policies, I’m sure he has examples. But there’s no evidence that Treasury did anything other than cost policies at the Govt’s request. The unethicality about the whole business is what Govt attempted to do with Treasury’s work – that is as a ‘gotcha’.
    The media release says

    These costings were not prepared under the election costings commitments’ process outlined in the Charter of Budget Honesty Act 1998.

    At no stage prior to the Caretaker period has either Department costed Opposition policies.

    Different costing assumptions, such as the start date of a policy, take up assumptions, indexation and the coverage that applies, will inevitably generate different financial outcomes.
    The financial implications of a policy may also differ depending on whether the costing is presented on an underlying cash balance or fiscal balance basis.

    I think the costings Hockey presented were costed on an accruals basis.
    But what is evident from what has happened today is that Labor is not trustworthy nor is it ethical nor is it honest.

  63. Infidel tiger

    Paul Murray just tore Rudd his eighteenth new fundament of the campaign.

  64. Jim Rose

    many voters hae al;ready voted. many others will no care or even know what this hole means.

  65. Infidel tiger

    My goodness, even Fairfax are slaying these despicable pieces of human filth.

  66. This is a twofer, Fatboy.

    Treasury clearly shows the Liars Party is lying… as though we even needed them to tell us.,

    Treasury was well and truly caught out playing politics.

    No JC, it’s either one or the other. Are the Treasury numbers correct or aren’t they?

    Samuel went early with the call that the Treasury numbers were accurate, and attacked them for partisanship, but the media has now gone with the angle that they are not accurate to drive a wedge between Rudd and Treasury, which is what Judith was running with. These two narratives are at odds with each other.

    The supposed $10B black hole is just in the savings announced in the subset of costings released the other day. This does not invalidate Eslake’s $30B call at all, since that was for the broader budget. It also doesn’t disprove Labor’s Hockey’s $70B call, since we don’t have the full Coalition costings yet.

    This scandal shows that Robb is not fit to be in charge of a calculator. He is double counting, misrepresenting and obfuscating to hide the real numbers in his Fightback II blueprint for leading Australia into recession.

  67. Infidel tiger

    Give it up mOnty. Your comedy act is bombing worse than Labors campaign.

  68. val majkus

    the Courier Mail:

    Treasury head Martin Parkinson and Finance chief David Tune, in a joint statement, forced the Government on the defensive just hours after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had publicly accused the Coalition of a $10 billion “fraud”.

    Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey said the intervention by Treasury and Finance had “destroyed … the last sliver of credibility Kevin Rudd had left”.

    “Kevin Rudd has been shown to be a liar and his words cannot be trusted,” Mr Hockey told News Corp Aust.

    Joe’s right – bet there’s no mention on the ABC
    But the SMH:

    Australia’s two most senior economic bureaucrats have effectively torpedoed Kevin Rudd’s claim of a $10 billion hole in opposition costings declaring that neither the Treasury nor the Finance Department had any role in the financial assessment.

  69. Leigh Lowe

    Jesus, Tony is getting better by the day …
    “Mr Rudd gets his own numbers wrong … now, he is getting our numbers wrong, too!”
    Thwack!!!!

  70. Makka

    “My goodness, even Fairfax are slaying these despicable pieces of human filth.”

    It will never be painful or bloody enough.

  71. Leigh Lowe

    A classic case of desperation spawning over-reach.
    This one is Kokoda Kev’s very own Utegate.

  72. Tiny Dancer

    Hey mOron, how jealous were you of Abbott going to the Cadbury factory the other day? Green with envy?

    Back to the cheap doughnuts chubby. Give Therese a call but I doubt she’s got any of the good ones left.

  73. Samuel J

    MOnty – I never said the Treasury costing were ‘accurate’. As they correctly observed it depends on assumptions, starting dates, accrual / cash etc.

    BUT I do maintain that Treasury / Finance should have refused to cost policies that are so like the Coalition’s. That would have been courageous.

    Now Treasury/Finance have done the right thing by releasing a note, but they are 4 weeks too late.

  74. val majkus

    This one is Kokoda Kev’s very own Utegate

    It’s worse than Utegate; Utegate didn’t implicate Turnbull in anything dishonest or unethical

  75. val majkus

    Now Treasury/Finance have done the right thing by releasing a note, but they are 4 weeks too late.

    Samuel J they’re right on cue – I wouldn’t describe them as late
    They were not to know what the Govt proposed to do with their work

  76. Snoopy

    Fcuk me Monty, one can both partisan AND wrong. That’s the whole point you moron.

  77. Leigh Lowe

    Little Nicky Reece is on PM Live defending Ruddster and Co.
    He is quoting Penny Wong as an economic authority FFS!!
    Reece and mUnter are the only two fuckwits in the country who think that Team Rudd isn’t a fuck-up on wheels.
    Except Reece doesn’t look like his heart is really in it.

  78. candy

    They were not to know what the Govt proposed to do with their work

    What is the motive of these two senior people. Ethics? They’re going to cop it tomorrow in the workplace. Or are they preparing the way for a Coalition government and wish to keep their jobs.

  79. val majkus

    He is quoting Penny Wong as an economic authority FFS!!

    The 106B dollar woman, that’s a laugh

  80. val majkus

    They’re going to cop it tomorrow in the workplace

    Candy, I think they’re too senior to cop it in the workplace.

    What is the motive of these two senior people

    I think they were shocked at what Rudd, Wong and whoever else tried to use their work for
    So good on them for speaking out I say

  81. Leigh Lowe

    What is the motive of these two senior people. Ethics? They’re going to cop it tomorrow in the workplace. Or are they preparing the way for a Coalition government and wish to keep their jobs.

    Lock it in Candy.
    The answer is (b) …. save my arse.
    Not just their jobs, but they know that even if they keep their jobs they are going to cop a week of Senate Estimates grief at the first opportunity.
    Don’t underestimate their fear of that public humiliation in the Canberra bubble.

  82. davefromweewaa

    A fat, nasty,spiteful communist.
    How do you know he’s fat JC ?

  83. .

    This does not invalidate Eslake’s $30B call

    SAUL ESLAKE SIAD THE CANBERRA BUSHFIRES WERE GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY

    SHUT THE FUCK UP

  84. Snoopy

    The 106B dollar woman, that’s a laugh

    How is it that we ended up with only Chinese person in the whole world who is hopeless with money?

  85. Leigh Lowe

    That is very funny Snoop!
    Yep.
    1.5 billion of them and we got the only one who failed abacus in Prep.

  86. .

    How is it that we ended up with only Chinese person in the whole world who is hopeless with money?

    She’s a white boned devil.

  87. stackja

    Again I temember:

    Sir Frederick Henry Wheeler was once described as a “legendary public servant and a master of guerrilla warfare in the bureaucracy.”
    There is a story that at one stage when Sir Frederick started lecturing the Prime Minister on the dangers of the loans affair, Mr Whitlam’s response was, “Shut up. I’ve heard everything.”
    Sir Frederick was reported to have come back with, “Prime Minister, you will listen to me. I am drawing to your attention facts, your ignorance of which, will bring you down.”
    But Sir Frederick adhered to what Mr Chifley admired in him — the practice of giving advice that he was convinced was sound, but not necessarily the advice the recipient might prefer to hear.

  88. Leigh Lowe

    Here’s a broader question.
    Why are we arguing the toss about how budget holes can be filled?
    Because Kokoda Kev and the Lying Slapper spent six years digging a debt hole as big as the Telfer open-cut mine.

  89. Annie A

    I know there are rusted-on Labor voters. In the main, they are decent, hard-working people. How on earth could they contemplate giving Rudd another go?

    Is it called cognitve dissonance? Or barracking for their side? Or… Or… (fill in the blanks)

  90. Paul

    I wonder just how many outside places like this can see just how big a slap that is to Labor. The only Labor voters I’m encountering now are those who would vote Labor even if Pol Pot was the leader.

  91. Snoopy

    Has anyone else noticed that Rudd has very small hands?

  92. val majkus

    Why are we arguing the toss about how budget holes can be filled?

    precisely, it’s the Labor Govt which have created the necessity but typical them – it’s the Govt’s ‘look over there’ distraction

  93. Leigh Lowe

    Has anyone else noticed that Rudd has very small hands?

    Quick.
    Someone tell Tim Mathieson before his next prostate exam.
    He is very keen on Mandarin speaking people with small hands for his check-up.

  94. Infidel tiger

    Imagine Jools coming home and finding Kev’s fist up Tim’s bum.

    “Aaaah! He got you as well, Tim”

  95. iamok

    It also doesn’t disprove Labor’s Hockey’s $70B call, since we don’t have the full Coalition costings yet.

    And of course you realise that the $70B lie came because the impartial Treasury would not give the LNP the assumptions Treasury used to underpin its Govt projections, so LNP had to use their own (without full knowledge of the real budgetary position). Then Treasury in a classic “gotcha” moment applied their (hidden) assumptions and guess what – a $70B “hole” appears. Treasury is compromised again but never brought to account. Surprise surprise. So tell me how can you “lose” $30B in a few weeks from your own numbers Treasury?

    Anyone who works with numbers knows that small manipulation of key variables within large projections can easily result in terrible numbers. It’s not rocket science. Maybe this time the Coalition is being a bit more careful lest they get trapped by the “impartials” again.

  96. Steve

    Two weeks ago it was a $70 billion LNP black hole.
    Last week it was a $30 billion LNP black hole.
    This week it is a $10 billion LNP black hole.

    At this rate we’ll have a $30 billion LNP surplus by election day. Sweet.

  97. val majkus

    At this rate we’ll have a $30 billion LNP surplus by election day. Sweet

    very funny! When you’re in a hole stop digging!
    Do you think we’ll hear about holes tomorrow?

  98. Gab

    Was just wondering what Rudd et al are cooking up for tomorrow. It won’t matter though because Rudd will just go rogue as is his wont.

  99. val majkus

    about holes:

    LABOR faces being wiped out in enough seats in western Sydney to hand the Coalition government on gains in NSW alone on September 7.

    Under Kevin Rudd’s leadership, Labor is facing a similar level of “catastrophe” forecast under Julia Gillard before she was removed as prime minister eight weeks ago in a bid to avoid the loss of up to 10 seats in Sydney’s west.

    There are now at least eight Labor-held seats in real danger, including those of Chris Bowen and Assistant Treasurer David Bradbury, with another two at risk.

    The swing against Labor in the western Sydney marginal seats is three times worse than the swing against the ALP in national polling and the Prime Minister, who leads Tony Abbott as preferred prime minister nationally by 44 to 40 per cent, is trailing the Opposition Leader in western Sydney by 40 to 46 per cent.

    According to a Newspoll survey conducted in five western Sydney marginal Labor electorates exclusively for The Australian from last Friday to Wednesday, Labor’s primary vote in its heartland has fallen 9 percentage points to 34 per cent since the 2010 election while the Coalition’s has risen 9 points to 52 per cent over the same time.

    On a two-party-preferred basis, using preference flows at the 2010 election, there has been a nine-percentage-point swing away from Labor to 43 per cent across the electorates of Greenway, Lindsay, Banks, Reid and Parramatta, all of which are held on margins of less than 5 per cent.

  100. val majkus

    and remember

    there is no such thing as an un-losable election,” Mr Abbott said

  101. Gab

    True, Val. And Abbott keeps saying stuff like that, as do the others. As do the support staff at Campaign HQ. Yet today Rudd said Abbott thinks he will win. It’s a small thing but it is yet another lie from Rudd. And a stupid remark but Rudd thinks he’s is a mind reader now.

  102. val majkus

    Yet today Rudd said Abbott thinks he will win. It’s a small thing but it is yet another lie from Rudd

    Gab, there’s been so many lies, the scare ads are lies as well
    it seems with this mob it’s ‘anything goes’; throw honesty out the window

  103. John Comnenus

    The big question is why did the Secretaries go public to effectively call the PM a liar?

    There are a number of possibilities:

    They might have done for ethical reasons, which seems highly unlikely;
    They might have down it to ingratiate themselves with their new masters, much more likely;
    They might have down it to get back at KRudd who is legendarily rude to senior officials, possible; or
    Most likely a perfect combination of all of the above.

    I have never heard a señor bureaucrat publicly call the PM a liar before. A new low for the office of PM under the current arse clown incumbent.

  104. Snoopy

    I have never heard a señor bureaucrat publicly call the PM a liar before. A new low for the office of PM under the current arse clown incumbent.

    You make it sound like it’s a bad thing.

  105. twostix

    it seems with this mob it’s ‘anything goes’; throw honesty out the window

    They’re fighting for their life. One royal inquiry into unions and the ALP is finished as a national political force for a long, long time.

  106. wreckage

    They might have done for ethical reasons, which seems highly unlikely;

    The ethics of correcting the blatant lie are reinforced by professional pride and personal prestige.

  107. Leo G

    Looks like the bunker has fallen into the black hole. Kevin ist geficht!

  108. egg_

    Was just wondering what Rudd et al are cooking up for tomorrow. It won’t matter though because Rudd will just go rogue as is his wont.

    Probably not much left in the bottom drawer, so likely demonising and dirt as Gillard did beforehand, except KRudd has far less scruples, which should soon be revealed.

  109. gabrianga

    Just a thought but isn’t “Wombat Henry” still on the PM’s list of advisers? Of course I forgot he was always a staunch supporter of the Coalition and would never interfere.

  110. val majkus

    Oops:

    QUEENSLAND federal MP Bert van Manen is the founder and half-owner of a financial planning firm that collapsed last year owing creditors more than $1.5 million.

    Mr van Manen is contesting the seat of Forde, south of Brisbane, for the Liberal National Party against former premier Peter Beattie, in one of the highest-profile battles of the election

  111. Samuel J

    It seems to me that the unprecedented leaking of the protected Treasury minutes was the catalyst for Treasury / Finance / PBO to go public. If Rudd hadn’t been so stupid as to have released the briefing, Treasury/Finance/PBO would have remained silent.

  112. val majkus

    gotta to be called Black Hole Gate
    Minutegate doesn’t have the same connotations

  113. entropy

    I wonder how many Treasury officials involved in those minutes felt very uncomfortable preparing them.

  114. Up The Workers!

    Gee, – You really know that the wheels have fallen off the Union gravy train when the only two bookcookers on the payroll who can read, write and add up, are themselves now revolting.

    Now things REALLY fail to add up for the wallet-stuffers, pocket-liners, purse-padders and assorted crooks of the A.L.P.

    All the Labor jobsworths at the A.T.O. had better quickly pull out of their catatonic state of the last 6 years, and find a few tax-dodging crooks whose hides they can nail to the wall in their trophy cabinet, as the incoming Government is composed of people who CAN read, write and add up.

    Every billion the A.T.O. can wring from the pockets of Labors’ tax-dodging crooked “little maaates”, is a billion that the Liberals will not have to save through A.T.O. and public “service” redundancies.

  115. Leigh Lowe

    Is it just me, or does anyone else find all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

  116. Popular Front

    all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

    It has been said that Jesse Jackson went to see the Disney film ‘The Black Hole’ expecting to see some quality porn. He was disappointed.

  117. Splatacrobat

    val majkus

    #977168, posted on August 29, 2013 at 11:15 pm
    He is quoting Penny Wong as an economic authority FFS!!

    The 106B dollar woman, that’s a laugh

    Woman? I don’t think Treasury assumptions even have that fact right Val. The jury is still out on that claim.

  118. Popular Front

    Kevin ist geficht!

    Verfallen! Verlumpt! Verblunget! Vehr Fahren auf Engeland!!!
    SLAP!

  119. Bons

    This is so weird. I am convinced that I am watching a QLD election campaign rerun – everything is identical. The positive aspect is that the polls in QLD didn’t get it right until two days before the election.
    Deja vu all over again? Hold the faith.

    Howard’s two biggest mistakes – he didn’t sack Stone and Henry – coalition governments need competent business people not mandarin megalomaniacs.

  120. Splatacrobat

    Yesterday’s stunt was Rudd’s last Steiner manoeuvre.
    Rudd: Treasury’s assault with the figures will bring it back under control.
    Albo: My Leader, Treasury
    Wong: Treasury and the PBO have said we are full of shit and they disown our claims
    Rudd: These men will stay here; Wong, Albo, Hawker, and Wright.
    Rudd: we are Kaput!

  121. val majkus

    The ABC had the story on 7.30 and Lateline
    The SMH has it as does the Oz and Courier Mail
    Does Labor have any credibility left for those scare ads to work

  122. does anyone else find all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

    Years ago, perhaps with the aid of an over-scrupulous spell-checker, a Boston newspaper, I recall, referred to a region of spacetime whence gravity prevents even light escaping, as an “African American hole”.

  123. All this talk of black holes is just laying the ground work for Krud’s next big announcement: an Australian space station orbiting Jupiter by 2099. You know how he likes to work in steady, incremental steps.

  124. Popular Front

    I am truly amazed at the level of naivity displayed by the Labor rabble in general and Rudd in particular. One of the basic rules of politics must surely be ‘don’t say anything that can be actively disproved’ and here we have Rudd making ludicrous statements and almost immediately getting boxed around the ears by the two senior CFOs of the government.

  125. egg_

    ‘don’t say anything that can be actively disproved’

    Apparently, it’s not the type’s words but the conviction with which they say them that make them consummate liars; but they only have a short term view and are eventually forced to deny what they’ve said; however, in public life, it goes on the record so they’re under scrutiny (and subject to ridicule*), thus the type is unsuitable for public office – the Peter principle in full view.

    *The best weapon against them, which Abbott’s been using to great advantage (re KRudd’s constant contradictions).

  126. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Goodness gracious me! A hole in the bucket, Dear Henry?

    Hahaha, Jazza.

    Well, fix it, dear Tony, dear Tony, dear Tony, FIX IT!
    How should Tone fix it, dear voters, dear voters, how should Tone fix it dear voters, tell me?
    Fire them, dear Tony, dear Tony, dear Tony, FIRE THEM.

    They are running scared for their jobs already, no?

    And, hey Candy. It’s OK darls, we all make mistakes in those to whom we give our affections when we are feeling tender-hearted about their problems. But we girls do have to recognise a rat-fink when he is thoroughly outed. Glad to see you recanting and finally giving Kevni the shove from your sympathies.

  127. rugbyskier

    Kevin ist geficht!

    I love how you put the German verb ‘ficken’ (to f##k) into the past tense. Kevin is f##ked.

  128. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    a Boston newspaper, I recall, referred to a region of spacetime whence gravity prevents even light escaping, as an “African American hole”.

    Absolute Gold, Deadman. 🙂

  129. james

    Is it just me, or does anyone else find all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

    Quite so Leigh… Quite so.

    In fact I believe it is a part of our deeply racist societies inherent bias against holes of colour rooted in the inequities of the financial system where “Holes” are differentiated by social constructs which emphasise arbitrary characteristics so as to maintain the privilege of “White” holes.

    Clearly this is a societal norm in dire need of deconstruction.

    I propose that we adjourn to the nearest faculty lounge to prepare a report for the relevant government agency demanding the funding necessary to teach children in science classes to cease this discriminatory practice of delineating Holes by colour.

    Truly we must be past this sort of outdated prejudicial thinking that only perpetuates the vast social divides between the different coloured holes.

  130. Popular Front

    That’s what slays me, Egg that when they make such ludicrous statements, they:
    a) Know they’re lying but will say it anyway,
    b) Actually believe what they’re saying and therefore everyone else must too.

  131. CasKav

    I realize this is off topic, and apologize for that, but would be most appreciative if anyone knows what is happening, in relation to a foreshadowed court case against Tony Abbott by someone from One Nation. Is it still going ahead and if so when?

  132. egg_

    b) Actually believe what they’re saying and therefore everyone else must too.

    Apparently, it’s not the words themselves but the emotions behind them that you want to believe – so, so much for the ‘lack of empathy’, low EQ meme – they know how to push buttons, even if they’re in an infantile emotional state (a form of arrested development). Highly dangerous to an organisation, yet comedic at the same time, per Rafe’s ‘scary clown’ analogy. /psychobabble 😉

  133. Luke

    Laurie Oakes rescue his cred?? Please. He’s the von Ribbentrop of the KRudd ALP.

  134. Luke

    I’m waiting for the Downfall re-subtitled clip of this. The one where someone informs Kevin that Treasury have issued that statement.

  135. .

    I want Rudd/Hitler….”YOU QUOTED SAUL ESLAKE? THAT BRATWURST GOBBLER SAID THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN WAS GOOD FOR GERMAN INDUSTRIAL OUTPUT! HE SAID THE CANBERRA BUSHFIRES WERE GOOD FOR THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY! WHY DON’T WE JUST HAND OVER THEISS, DEUSTCHE BANK AND HIGH COMMAND TO STALIN?!”

  136. sunshine

    Finally a dramatic negative headline against Labor with substance – unlike kitchen cabnet gate and the rest. Pity the fake ones do as much damage as the real ones . RIP democracy – thanks Rupert.

  137. .

    Yes sunshine, rupert is like Marius haunting the Roman Republic, an unshaven, ruddy nosed old dictator and general whuipping up the mob against representative democracy, etc…

    You idiot.

  138. JC

    THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN WAS GOOD FOR GERMAN INDUSTRIAL

    It was a great thing economically. Fabulous according to Saul Eslake. In fact maybe we ought to bomb the shit out of Melbourne and have an economic boom.

    Dot,

    The imbecile once suggested to me at Troppo the Depression was caused lower wages. No kidding.

  139. .

    Then he should have predicted the fall in hours worked in 2008 and 2009 would have caused a depression here.

    No left wing “economist” would dare say such a thing in light of the stimulus.

  140. Leigh Lowe

    Is it just me, or does anyone else find all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

    I prefer the way TLS would characterise it …. “The country is full of gold-plated holes”

  141. .

    Goldmember? He is responsible!

  142. LordAzrael

    In this instance I don’t believe Treasury has done anything wrong. Even Costello has said that Treasury would prepare advice to the government on the cost of adopting policies proposed by opposition so it was justified on the basis of being a costing of a potential government policy, rather than being a costing of an opposition – yes its a fine distinction but an important one from an ethical point of view. The importance of the distinction that allows the activity to be undertaken also shows why it cannot be used to attack the Coalitions policy as it is not that policy and its associated assumptions on implementation that have been modelled!

    Not to mention breaching confidentiality when it is politically convenient. From the same nuff nuffs that had no problem criminally shredding evidence under the banner of confidentiality in the Heiner Affair. As so much with Labor, its not the principle but rather what is convenient for them.

  143. LordAzrael

    CasKav

    #977399, posted on August 30, 2013 at 8:45 am

    I realize this is off topic, and apologize for that, but would be most appreciative if anyone knows what is happening, in relation to a foreshadowed court case against Tony Abbott by someone from One Nation. Is it still going ahead and if so when?

    Its going no where. They don’t even have real points of claim. One of the major claims was abolished something like 80 years ago. If a solicitor had been involved in drafting their legal claim they would be close to up on misconduct charges its so bad. Its purely a political exercise – it has no basis in law.

  144. H B Bear

    No surprise to see KD Wrong on the end of yet another Labor government fail.

    Has KD every pulled the right rein on anything? She has backed more losers than Stephen Conroy but that is only due to the irradiated milk he was fed as a child.

  145. Leigh Lowe

    Azrael @ 977451.
    That is some fine hair splitting and, whilst it may be technically correct, it is a double edged sword.
    Let’s take a couple of Coalition policies which the ALP has been bagging up hill and down dale – PPL and Indonesian boat buybacks.
    If they get these costed by Treasury, ostensibly as “policies under consideration” when the ALP are asked “Did you consider introducing PPL similar to the Coalition’s?” or “Did you consider an Indonesian boat buy-back?” there are only two possible answers:-
    Yes …. which portrays them as hypocritical for bagging a policy they, by their own admission, “seriously considered”; or
    No …. which means they breached the rules and used Treasury as a political tool.

  146. egg_

    The Wrongbot’s a KRudd understudy – all fluff and no substance.

  147. val majkus

    The Oz is reporting Labor is standing by its $10B black hole claim
    I don’t know if anyone is listening any more
    Abbott says the Coalition won’t release its costings until towards the end of next week during the advertising black out period which is probably wise
    what is it with the word black and the word costings

  148. sunshine

    Is it just me, or does anyone else find all this talk of “black holes” just a tiny bit racist?

    How about Abbott s talk of ‘illegal’ (brown skinned) immigrants comming in via our vulnerable ‘back door’ ?

    THE BOMBING OF DRESDEN WAS GOOD FOR GERMAN INDUSTRIAL

    That shows a problem with singleminded focus on gdp – go in your car and drive thru the front of a shopping centre – that will boost gdp too .

  149. egg_

    That shows a problem with singleminded sexual focus

    FIFY

  150. .

    That shows a problem with singleminded focus on gdp – go in your car and drive thru the front of a shopping centre – that will boost gdp too .

    No and no.

    It shows that GDP is a limited metric. Left wing “economists” forget this when measuring stimulus.

    Focusing on economic growth is good, you numbskull. Growth increases living standards.

    Vandalism and the redediation thereof does not. If it shows up in GDP as an uptick, it is because GDP calculations are flawed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

    Maximising real, per capita growth ought to be the number one economic priority of Government.

    To say otherwise means you think we don’t need anymore technological advancement or the amelioration of poverty.

  151. Rabz

    How about Abbott s talk of ‘illegal’ (brown skinned) immigrants comming in via our vulnerable ‘back door’?

    Remember, sunshine, if you can hear the whistle, you’re the dog.

  152. sunshine

    Dot (Dorithy?) – I dont think we have a disagreement this time .

  153. Leo G

    “That shows a problem with singleminded focus on gdp – go in your car and drive thru the front of a shopping centre – that will boost gdp too” – Sunshine

    Perhaps one must be an economist to truly understand GDP, but how would vandalising a shopping centre increase the capacity of an economy to produce finished goods and services?

  154. Fibro

    What a delightful admission by Parko that the governmnet will change and all he is doing is taking steps to secure his own job in 2 weeks time.

    Bit late for that me thinks.

  155. .

    sunshine – you’re an imbecile. Go back to the fdark ages where you beling with mass poverty and a lack of technology.

    Leo. Basistat called bullshit on it a logn time ago. Read the wiki link I put up the fallacy/parable of the broken window.

  156. Mr Skeletor

    Who’s this sunshine chappy, haven’t seen him before? A new dope or is he an old Cat foe from the past who pops up every now and again like the Daleks?

  157. sunshine

    how would vandalising a shopping centre increase the capacity of an economy to produce finished goods and services?

    leo – insofar as goods and services are required to fix it the gdp records that value as an increase . its all very contentious . Dots wikipedia link about the parable of the broken window is a good one .

  158. Popular Front

    Sunshine doesn’t seem to be well liked Mr Bones, judging by the responses he/she/it gets. We all fight like Killkenny Cats (pun) anyway so what’s one more stoush in the middle of an all-in brawl? That’s what I like about this blog.

  159. .

    leo – insofar as goods and services are required to fix it the gdp records that value as an increase . its all very contentious . Dots wikipedia link about the parable of the broken window is a good one .

    Contentious? It is undeniable that Basistat is right, and that lunkhead Saul Eslake is wrong, regardless of the merits of GDP as a metric.

  160. Steve

    Thankfully the Coalition have learned from past mistakes and gotten their costing ducks in a row this time.
    Whether by design or accident, Rudd has fallen for the rope-a-dope . He’s been flailing away blathering about cuts and a $70 billion black hole that doesn’t exist and he’s got nothing left. Everything he has done lately smacks of desperation.

    I like the way that Abbott has been messing with Rudd’s head. Can you imagine the firecrackers going off in the little pissant’s head every time Abbott casually ridicules him? A public meltdown cannot be far away.

    Abbott! Bomaye!

  161. CasKav

    LordAzrael – thank you for satisfying my curiosity.

  162. Driftforge

    regardless of the merits of GDP as a metric.

    So.. what we are saying here is simply that GDP < Change in GD Net Worth ?

  163. Splatacrobat

    BOMBING OF DRESDEN WAS GOOD FOR GERMAN INDUSTRIAL OUTPUT!

    Burning down houses and electrocuting pink batt installers was also good for industrial output……and the funeral industry

  164. sunshine

    Skeletor – I am one who argues in good faith (gives credit where credit is due ,admits fault when it becomes apparent ,and wont use double stsndards) – this approach stands out here as it is not in vogue in rightist circles where a ‘whatever it takes’ approach is favoured . I think rightists are happy to argue in bad faith because they valorise selfishness .

  165. Gab

    Ah, the sanctimony. Hallmark of the moaning leftards.

  166. Leo G

    Eslake apparently thinks fiscal austerity is scary but doesn’t think sustained ‘stimulus spending’ can be economic vandalism?

  167. Rabz

    Leo, I think we all agree that Easlake is an imbecile.

    If mUnty, this site’s famed resident wrongologist, continually cites Easlake as a suppository of all economic wisdom, that’s enough evidence for me.

  168. LordAzrael

    @Leigh Lowe – Its basically something Costello said on the Bolt Report at one time. He said govts of both sides do it, but because its done under the guise of being a potential govt policy they don’t disclose the analysis because using the Public Service for political purposes such as attacking the opposition would be morally indefensible 😉

  169. Leo G

    “I think rightists are happy to argue in bad faith because they valorise selfishness.” – sunshine

    Aren’t you begging the question. Surely, you mean that when your notional rightists valorise selfishness, they are arguing in bad faith.

  170. Jannie

    HE SAID THE CANBERRA BUSHFIRES WERE GOOD FOR THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY!

    They were wernt they? I mean so long as the shiny bums are running around putting out fires, they will have less attention to devote to socialising the economy.

  171. The 106B dollar woman, that’s a laugh

    How is it that we ended up with only Chinese person in the whole world who is hopeless with money?

    You mean those millions of Chinese gamblers aren’t mathematically challenged??

  172. Snoopy

    You mean those millions of Chinese gamblers aren’t mathematically challenged??

    No, they’re ‘investing’ ‘saves’. 🙂

  173. Snoopy

    Rudd seems to think that the answer to collapsing poll numbers is more Rudd.

  174. James in Melbourne

    The only Labor voters I’m encountering now are those who would vote Labor even if Pol Pot was the leader.

    Paul, it is simple – “Poll Pot” is their leader.

  175. egg_

    HE SAID THE CANBERRA BUSHFIRES WERE GOOD FOR THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY!

    We almost lost c. century-old Mt Stromlo observatory and subsequently the Anglo Australian Telescope out Coonamble way – because they’re atop hills in scrub FFS.
    But a shiny @rsed rubber stamper would be clueless about that.

  176. sunshine

    Aren’t you begging the question. Surely, you mean that when your notional rightists valorise selfishness, they are arguing in bad faith.

    No they truly believeit is always best to act selfishly ,compassion is weakness that will drag us all down .I think this allows one to easily slip into bad faith – thinking that the end justifies the means . Why bother with good faith when selfish bad faith is supposed to produce the best outcome anyway ? You can see this here when people say Ruperts vindictive propoganda is ok because he is on our side .
    I believe that it is only sometimes best to act selfishly ,and sometimes not .

  177. val majkus

    Robert Gottleibsen

    Kevin Rudd, Chris Bowen and Penny Wong made their ‘numbers’ mistake because they were trapped by a clever Coalition plot.

    And in their frustration they did not pick up on the fact that there is a much bigger Coalition cost reduction plan that was not announced in the Hockey cost estimates.

    And that second Coalition plan will transform the nation and put under pressure this week’s Coalition ‘hero’, treasury chief Martin Parkinson who (with finance department head David Tune) yesterday shredded the Rudd campaign.

    Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey was able to announce really modest cuts to pay for his promises because Hockey based his revenue estimates on the highly dubious forecasts Treasury and the government made just before the election announcement (The sausage machine approach to budget estimates, August 30).

    Frankly, everyone in the Coalition from Tony Abbott down believes the Treasury revenue forecasts are nonsense and the real future revenue numbers are much lower. But Treasury’s inflated numbers made the Coalition’s election campaign cost bridging so much easier.

    And the task was made even easier because the government announced a series of new taxes and cuts that did most of the work.
    Apart from changes to the motor fringe benefits tax, the Coalition embraced almost all the government measures. While this is not the way the Coalition would have undertaken the task, Australia faces an emergency so it is best for the Coalition to start with the ALP taxes and cuts. When the budget is in better shape some of the ALP measures may be reversed, but that will be in the next term.

    The first major cost reduction program that was not revealed in the Hockey statement is the biggest deregulation program Australia has ever seen.

    The Coalition has already isolated thousands and thousands of regulations that can be abolished or substantially simplified without legislation. And with each regulation comes a group of public servants that are no longer required. It’s a massive cost-cutting exercise that will boost business around the nation.

    The second plan is to bring the states together and rationalise activities. That will mean massive cuts to the federal departments of health, education and environment because much of their work is supervising the states that carry out the work. There is no need to cut services – which is why the Coalition is able to torpedo the Rudd campaign claiming that hospitals and schools will be shut.

    The Coalition talks about a 12,000 reduction in the public service through natural attrition. My guess is that the real number is close to double that.

    Unfortunately these unannounced cuts will not all go to the bottom line because the revenue estimates must be lowered to embrace realistic forecasts. Accordingly, the extra cuts will in part be required to bridge lower revenue estimates.

    This was a very clever Opposition strategy that forced Rudd, Wong and Bowen into the biggest error of the campaign. Strangely, Coalition research shows that the electorate is not that concerned about costing – but they understand when a leader makes a serious error. And that’s what happened to Kevin Rudd

  178. Rabz

    The Coalition has already isolated thousands and thousands of regulations that can be abolished or substantially simplified without legislation. And with each regulation comes a group of public servants that are no longer required. It’s a massive cost-cutting exercise that will boost business around the nation.

    Hooray!

  179. Infidel Tiger

    The Coalition talks about a 12,000 reduction in the public service through natural attrition. My guess is that the real number is close to double that.

    Viagra for the soul.

  180. harrys on the boat

    No sunshine, when Murdoch’s papers backed Rudd in 2007, we weren’t calling for media regulation and howling that Murdoch is evil.

    Murdochs “vindictive propaganda”? So what? Its none of your, or my, business what Murdoch decides what to put on the front pages of HIS papers.

    What is it that stops you lefty imbeciles from recognising private property rights? Could I walk into your favourite latte sipping wankfest cafe and demand all posters supporting greenfilth and fair trade coffee beans be removed because I find them offensive?

  181. harrys on the boat

    “The Coalition talks about a 12,000 reduction in the public service through natural attrition. My guess is that the real number is close to double that.”

    Please let that be a typo and double should read quadruple.

  182. Gab

    Murdoch supported Rudd in 2007 and beyond. After Rudd’s Party dumped him, Rudd was on the first plane to NY for a meeting with Murdoch to discuss Rudd’s career strategies into the future. The Leftard howler monkeys didn’t seem too worried about Murdoch back then.

  183. Leo G

    No they truly believe: it is always best to act selfishly; compassion is weakness that will drag us all down. I think this allows one to easily slip into bad faith.

    I understand your position, confounded as it is by a mostly imagined fear that Rupert Murdoch can influence voters to disdain compassion and consequently reject the ALP that you feel is inherently compassionate.
    Bad faith involves acting against a one’s own principles, perhaps in self-deception. As I see it, most of the Cats about which you complain are honestly expressing views consistent with their values. We all can deceive ourselves about those values- they’re not all that transparent. So perhaps you can see some inconsistencies. That’s not necessarily bad faith.

  184. Tinta

    The Coalition has already isolated thousands and thousands of regulations that can be abolished or substantially simplified without legislation. And with each regulation comes a group of public servants that are no longer required. It’s a massive cost-cutting exercise that will boost business around the nation.

    They can start with the NDIS legislation which is constipated process to the max and just get the states to do what they know has to be done without an effing bureaucrat playing the gatekeeper’s gatekeeper

  185. egg_

    No sunshine, when Murdoch’s papers backed Rudd in 2007, we weren’t calling for media regulation and howling that Murdoch is evil.

    Yup needs rubbing into Leftards now they’re getting shrill cause they’re on the receiving end.

  186. Koolbardie

    Guys cant I trouble the brains trust for a reference. I just caught News Radio’s 12 oclocker WST the tail end of a stouch sounded like over minute gate. The word “bullshit” was used and the fur fairly flew. It was an interview and the radio announcer was drowning. I think Hockey and Shorten were involved. I have been listening to the repeats and googling but no further elucidation. Anyone catch that ?

  187. Koolbardie

    It was Neil Mitchell 3AW program – a fiery debate between Labor’s Bill Shorten and shadow treasurer Joe Hockey. Hockey gets cranky and Bill sticks to talking points. Not very interesting.

  188. The Pugilist

    I must have missed the media release and public appearances by senior community and public sector union officials about the politicisation of public servants. I remember a big fuss being made about John Howard politicising the public service in 2007…

  189. Bruce

    Robert Gottleibsen

    Promising stuff, if even half of it is true. Unfortunately it will hit square on the Senate, who will very sanctimoniously say ‘no’, more in sorrow than in anger. Expect a very interesting DD election next April.

  190. dd

    So this is checkmate, right?

  191. Matt

    At bolta’s:

    WONG: I think a lot of people are tired of this costings debate, I’d quite like to be able to talk about something else.

    😀

  192. .

    I think it is checkmate.

    Abbott looks sensible on foreign policy and the military, Rudd looks like an angry lying idiot on economics.

  193. dd

    WONG: I think a lot of people are tired of this costings debate, I’d quite like to be able to talk about something else.

    yet 48 hours ago she and her team were pushing to make costings front and centre of the debate.

Comments are closed.