Wednesday Forum: September 25, 2013

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1,255 Responses to Wednesday Forum: September 25, 2013

  1. “How to get the most from a relationship – or what to do to ensure your boyfriend isn’t single and low-ranking”

  2. “Nightmare on the road to the Lodge, (or I woke up Screaming when I dreamt my boyfriend didn’t have a wife and kids)”

  3. Rebel with cause

    Stamp duty is a terribly inefficient tax and should be abolished – it reduces the geographical mobility of all home owners.

    Much more land should be released for development too – the stinginess around land release not only drives up real estate prices, but causes land that would otherwise not be developed to be developed! Round my area, there are houses built on the sides of gullys etc. that are just terrible places to build – prone to flooding, landslides, cold, damp and get no sun. They would make a fine refuge for wildlife, good place to walk the dog etc but not good for housing. But because so much land is locked away from development, every square inch that is available for development is built on. Plus everyone that used to have a nice big backyard has now gone and subdivided because the land is so valuble, so that’s hardly good for getting kids outside and playing.

    It’s a real tragedy really and I would love to see this issue addressed in the political process, but it just seems like no political party wants a bar of it.

  4. Stamp Duty? Capital Gains tax can go also, for it is one helluva impediment to mobility.

  5. JC

    The poor slapper. She never gets any respect, not even in retirement.

  6. Armadillo

    Calli, although lenders vary, the general rule of thumb is that they will not let your repayments exceed 30% of Gross Income (for higher income earners however, they may look at up to 50%). They use matrixes that also take into account number of kids, other debts e.t.c. Obviously, the other barrier is getting a deposit together. The GFC put an end to the borrow 115% of the purchase price (although it may have made a comeback, I have seen it advertised). It was only ever available in capital cities (in many country towns, unless you come up with 20%, forget it).

  7. JC

    Can we deport her back to the UK?

  8. JC

    StevesC the plastic sex doll owner, the partridge and Fatboy get very annoyed when people here disrespect the slap. They always go into serious slapper defense.

  9. mct

    Michael Walsh is on fire…

    So how to end this — as end this we must if the survival of the United States of America as founded is to be secured? Remember that “fundamental transformation” is ostensibly meant to contribute toward a “more perfect Union,” but it of course does nothing of the sort. Under Progressivism — a combination ideological movement and criminal enrichment racket — the country is less united, less happy, less free. And, like any movement composed of True Believers, Progressivism brooks no opposition, ascribes no good motives to its opponents, and will impose its way in a heartbeat when given half the chance.

    RTWT

  10. C.L.

    I agree that stamp duty has to go.

    The very idea of it is absurd and disgusting.

    But everything is connected to everything else, fiscally. Until you move people out of public medicine and schools en masse, the electorate’s beloved ‘free’ stuff has to be paid for. As angry as I am with the Liberal Party’s (very real) gutlessness in government, it’s difficult to see how they can viably effect this kind of revolution. You need at least ten solid years of ratcheting up the incentives and locking people away from the public tit to move a political culture to this extent. And always in the wings is the ALP – promising free stuff, encouraging envy and driving the low information deadbeats back to the Great Boob.

    Dare I say it, change of the kind we need requires men grim and far-sighted.

  11. nic

    Gillard’s book:

    Madame Ovaries
    The Liar, the Witch and the Closet
    The little red engine that couldn’t

  12. egg_

    Kath and Kim Slap and Timderella”

  13. Helen

    Perhaps the baby boomers should have invested in another form of superannuation, twostixs? When we bar people from a market we distort the market, just as when we hold back land from development. Has Australia changed? Maybe the dream of owning your own mcmansion is simply unattainable?

    My SIL is a cabinet maker. When he started out he lived in a van on site. He says first home buyers now, even in Katherine, NT, want to rip out a perfectly good kitchen and replace it with a whizz bang one. Is it the expectation that everyone can have what they want now, and pay for it later that is different? Whereas in the past, people saved up and then made the purchase? I dont blame the baby boomers. Investing in bricks and mortar was always deemed to be safe and something everyone understood vis stocks and shares.

    but if the theory that the baby boomers have locked up heaps of property and rented it out at the market price is correct, then there should be a rush of housing onto the market over the next 30 years as baby boomer die out and beneficiaries liquidate assets.

    There is nothing wrong with living within your means, also that employment is very transient these days, many people willl have many jobs in different locations in their lifetime, it may not actually suit them to buy a house and live in one place.

  14. boy on a bike

    The seven pillars of stupidity

  15. pete m

    Gillard – Memoirs of a Gusher

    Albos – Gorn with the Wisp

    Shorten – I’ll have what she’s having

    Rudd – Me, myself and I, vol 1 (a 10 part series)

  16. egg_

    Shorten – I’ll have what she’s having Red Dwarf

  17. Popular Front

    Good Evening Cats. I was finishing a rebuild of an M20 gearbox and my choice of shednoise was ‘Pink Floyd Live At Pompeii’, I haven’t looked at it for quite a while, I couple of years I’d say. I moved from work to pleasure and I say to any CTt that has that dvd/vhr to punch it in and look again. The 70s were groovy.

  18. Armadillo

    The 70s were groovy.

    There was a 70’s? I’ll take your word on that, but something does sound quite right.

  19. brc

    The solution to stamp duties probably has to be property taxes. If it cost you $30k to live in a house for thirty years, that is more equitable than paying $30k up front to move in, regardless of how long you stay there. With a phase in/phase out approach you could sell it to the public. Have a grandma exemption for the oldies that have been in the house forever but don’t have the easier to pay property taxes. They’re going to die eventually so sooner or later the tax will start beging collected.

    The long term solution is shrinking the size of the state governments, sure, but soemthing has to be done about the impost of moving house, having kids or getting divorced. Everybody hates it, so I can’t see why it couldn’t be a political sell.

    The first state government to move on it is probably going to see an uptick in economic activity as it would likely kick off building projects. Moving to a property tax would also even out the income for state governments who collect a motza in boom time but ht the skids when it slows. And it ensures that property is put to the best use possible.

  20. Armadillo

    brc, so what your saying is basically an increase in rates to off-set the lost revenue from stamp duties? I’m assuming it would need to based on property value?

  21. Armadillo

    One area in relation to house purchasing that needs to be look at is the lending/conveyancing angle.

    Consider purchasing a property at auction. Before making a bid, your lender will require a building inspection, pest report and a registered valuation. Say that 10 people were interested in bidding. That’s 10 of each required (sometimes even done by the same valuer/pest controller/building inspector) who then re-sell the exact same “report” to each individual bidder.

    Simply making the seller pay for the reports prior to listing would save a hell of a lot of money and duplication.

  22. Carpe Jugulum

    Gillard’s book;

    Sleeping your way to the top – an almanac

    Even stupid people can succeed

    My life as a tart

    Bill Shortens Book;

    Gimme a F**ken Pie

    Stupid cabbie C**t

    How to agree with everything – A primer

  23. candy

    Ms Gillard’s book:

    It’s My Party and I’ll Lie If I Want To.

  24. Carpe Jugulum

    Albosleazys book;

    Lithping – A Spitters guide to thuccess

    How to Suck Start a Freight Train

  25. Driftforge

    brc, so what your saying is basically an increase in rates to off-set the lost revenue from stamp duties? I’m assuming it would need to based on property value?

    Based on the land value, not property value.

  26. JC

    Sleeping your way to the top – an almanac

    Dude, in her case it’s “sleeping your way to the the Bottom”. Everything is the opposite in Slapperland. Seriously, Stedman wasn’t eggsactly a prize catch. And the other knuckleheads, including legover man weren’t either.

  27. Token

    Pre Election: Crouching Ranga, Stalking Earwax Muncher

    Labor leadership ballot: The Hangover

    Shorten: Dude, where’s my pie?

    Albo: The Big Sleazy

  28. Dianne

    Alexander Downer on the Drum – beating them all over the park 🙂

  29. Helen Armstrong

    Based on the land value, not property value.

    Which due to hidden transfer of value of assets to the state UCV is way above what it should be.

    The VG’s office needs a broom though it before this type of tax could be equitable. And, Id rather pay in a lump sum, at end as being a farmer, not a lot of disposable cash along the way.

  30. Rebel with cause

    Rainbow Labor

    LOL
    That light on the hill has attracted all sorts of weirdos hasn’t it?

  31. Viva

    Ms Gillard’s book:

    It’s My Party and I’ll Lie If I Want To.

    That’s right up there Candy!

  32. Helen Armstrong

    You know a couple of those pussy riot chicks are in gulags, (where greenpeace might be going) well one is going on a hunger strikeher story of gulag is compelling reading and kudos to her bravery in speaking up.

  33. Rebel with cause

    Putin is not Stalin but he’s no good either.

    Yup

  34. .

    Dare I say it, change of the kind we need requires men grim and far-sighted.

    There is nothing “grim” about it.

    But what do we have now? An awful system.

    Destroying people’s purchasing power to provide sub par services is downright Dickensian.

    Cutting taxes can only be liberating. Starve the beast.

  35. Oh come on

    Re: foreign investment in Oz property, remember the Japanese buying up a huge swathe of premium real estate in the 80s at top dollar, pushing prices through the roof, largely pricing most locals out and eventually competing amongst each other? Everyone was soiling themselves over the thought that we’d all be renting from the Japanese within a decade. Then 1987 happened, the Japanese economy soon after went into its permanent hibernation, the Oz property market went into a tailspin, and a whole bunch of desperate Japanese investors had to liquidate their property investments at firesale prices. Mainly Australian buyers squabbled over who could pay the least for the cream of the spoils, much of which was on the market for years before it was offloaded at a fraction of what the vendor paid for it. ‘You only get one Alan Bond’ multiplied by the thousand across the country.

    The same thing will happen with this current bunch of cashed up Chinese investors. Their wealth is a house of cards. There are going to be some fantastic bargains for investors with capital in the not too distant future.

    And trust me, you don’t want to be a part of the Chinese property bubble. If foreign ownership laws were relaxed I suspect this would be done for the express purpose of allowing more suckers to keep the bubble inflated. Count your lucky stars you can’t buy there. Imagine if you owned inner city Tokyo property in 1989. I’m sure you wouldn’t have been happy you were free to invest in Japanese real estate after the 90% haircut you just took on your asset.

  36. Armadillo

    Alexander Downer on the Drum – beating them all over the park

    Yeh, saw that. ABC will go nuts tomorrow – Downer threatens Indonesia. What he said was dead-set right mind you – it’s not a matter of us infridging on their soverignty – it’s the other bloody way around.

  37. Armadillo

    Michael Smith has his own nickname for Shorten I see:

    the people’s Prime Minister, St Willy-Willy of Assisi, the Prime Minister for the Powerless

  38. Tracey

    I can hear the ridiculous Project from the next room (my only defence is that my niece is here for a sleepover tonight). Natasha Stott Despoja explaining why Tony Abbott won’t be able to manage his team re media. Of course, her leadership worked so well for the Democrats.

  39. calli

    I’m intrigued by the image of baby boomers ‘hoovering’ up all the available property in the 00’s. I’m a very late boomer (56) and my children were in their late teens early twenties.

    So the question is…where were all the older boomer’s children in the property market? Had they saved up deposits, or had they lived the life of Riley? Are they now whingeing that they missed out on a worthwhile investment after they have peed their money up against a wall by spending on ephemera?

  40. what planet am I on?

    Does anybody know why the count in the Qld. seat of Fisher has been reset to zero?

  41. Helen Armstrong

    Where are all the baby boomers in the property market.

    Another question, when the stats for ownership by age are shown, how does this differ from pre baby boomer times? Or is it a normal ownership distribution? Or is it owning more than one house? How does it differ?

  42. Helen Armstrong

    Fisher is being recounted because it was close.

  43. nic

    The yoof of today also fail to factor in that they are likely to inherit cash, largesse that their parents probably didn’t get.

  44. dover_beach

    BILL Shorten has told Labor’s gay lobby group – Rainbow Labor – that he will consider creating a shadow ministry for equality if he is elected leader.

    A shadow ministry for equality? Well, bugger me.

  45. Armadillo

    Based on the land value, not property value.

    I’m starting to warm to the idea actually (despite the obvious bugs pointed out by Helen). Sounds a bit like a “pay as you go” scheme. The thing I like is that you currently can’t buy and sell within a few years without getting smashed with stamp duty taxes. At least you only pay for “what you use” so to speak and it allows for higher mobility.

  46. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    LOL Toiling Mass. I wonder how many other cats will ‘get it’?

    Only those of us who are pretentiously and ostentatiously well-read.

    Next time, can the first commenter please indicate the time of the original comment if the quote is not self-explanatory? Following Abu’s remark I really wanted to check whether I was pretentiously and ostentatiously well-read (hope so!) but couldn’t easily locate the original comment. I am a ducker-inner-and-outer on the Cat at this time of evening (in order to improve my cooking) so I have limited time for scrolling the whole thing more than once, and probably often miss things.

  47. JC

    BILL Shorten has told Labor’s gay lobby group – Rainbow Labor – that he will consider creating a shadow ministry for equality if he is elected leader.

    He’s exactly like Rudd. Little show pony.

  48. Tracey

    The yoof of today also fail to factor in that they are likely to inherit cash, largesse that their parents probably didn’t get.

    Plus first home buyers’ grant, baby bonuses, family tax assistance A & B, subsidised child care, employer super, parental leave, record low interest rates and on and on.

    I’m right on the cusp between Boomer and Gen X and fed up to the back teeth with listening to people whining about how tough they have it. Get off your arses, work hard, save when you can and stop buying stuff you can’t afford. It’s not rocket science.

  49. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    a shadow ministry for equality

    Yes, a ministry for ‘social inclusion’ is so last month now.

  50. calli

    Get off your arses, work hard, save when you can and stop buying stuff you can’t afford. It’s not rocket science.

    Love ya work Trace! 😀

  51. Still Waters

    “My Brilliant Career, and Other Fantastical Tales.”

  52. will

    Russians Charge All Greenpeace Activists On Arctic Sunrise With Piracy

  53. Splatacrobat

    7.30 report should be good. IPCC under fire.

  54. Leo G

    The same thing will happen with this current bunch of cashed up Chinese investors.

    Not all are Chinese or cashed-up. Many have somehow managed to gear-up with borrowings from Australian banks, often using nominees. In the meantime, many thousands of new and existing homes in Australian cities remain under-occupied.

  55. Twostix’s unattributed anti-boomer piece:

    Australia’s baby boomer generation – which comprises roughly one-quarter of the Australian population but owns nearly half of the nation’s housing assets – will gradually become net sellers of Australian housing as they enter retirement, thereby acting to push down home prices in the process.

    The baby boomers were key players in the rapid house price appreciation experienced in Australia in the decade to 2008. As the baby boomers reached peak earnings age in the 1990s, they began buying up investment properties en masse as a way of both minimising their tax (via negative gearing) and ‘saving’ for retirement. They were also likely to have significantly increased demand (and prices) for owner?occupier homes, since many in this demographic would have traded-up to their most expensive (‘peak’) home over this period.

    The baby boomer’s accumulation of Australia’s housing assets is illustrated by the most recent ABS Household Wealth and Wealth Distribution survey, which shows that the baby boomers hold 45% of owner-occupied dwellings and 51% of other dwellings (investment properties and holiday homes). Further, those aged 65+ hold a further 21% of Australia’s housing assets, taking the older cohort’s (those aged over 45) share of Australia’s housing stock to 67% (see below chart).

    So when did this become a redistributionist forum? Is buying property no longer ok here? What next, only a certain number of shares you are allowed to own? JC might care to comment on that idea.

    For the record, my wife and I have owned three homes, sequentially, over 40 years. Is that ok, commissar?
    But even if we had invested in property, I would have thought that it was quite allright to do that, or any other commodity for that matter.

  56. I’m starting to warm to the idea actually (despite the obvious bugs pointed out by Helen). Sounds a bit like a “pay as you go” scheme.

    Keeps land prices down and stops speculation dead.

    The levy can also be constructed transparently. The amount you would pay for the land vacant, on a loan taken out now should be equal to the levy. So half the cost for the land is paid up front to the previous owner, and half the cost is paid on an ongoing basis. For the first quarter, what you pay the bank for the land would match what you pay the council/state. After that, it depends on how land prices move.

  57. Armadillo

    Many have somehow managed to gear-up with borrowings from Australian banks, often using nominees.

    Leo, what do you mean by “nominees” (excuse my ignorance).

  58. JC

    Russians Charge All Greenpeace Activists On Arctic Sunrise With Piracy

    They aren’t activists, they’re terrorists.

    This is funny, so Putin was fucking around earlier when he suggested they shouldn’t be charged with piracy. He was just playing good cop routine, knowing the scum were going to cop it hard in the groin with a piracy charge..

    In other words, they’re fucked.

    I don’t like Putin because he’s a thug, however looking under rocks I would have to say I prefer him to the Western Greenleft without a blink of an eye.

  59. Andrew of Randwick

    What to say when your nation has been ripped apart. Its well worth the 15 mins.

    Fellow Kenyans,
    Last weekend, terrorists alighted in Nairobi and unleashed unspeakable and unforgivable atrocity on Kenyans and our visitors.
    The agents of Terror themselves craven wretches and lowly cowards had the agenda of perpetrating grievous mayhem in our country, senselessly killing, maiming and traumatizing harmless, innocent people.
    We confronted this evil without flinching, contained our deep grief and pain, and conquered it. As a nation, our head is bloodied, but unbowed. The criminals found us unafraid, as we ever shall be. We cannot be conquered….

    .

    The Glory of Kenya, is the Fruit of our collective Labour. That is what our founding fathers inscribed in our National Anthem. Because of what we have done, we have not been shaken.
    As long as Kenya remains our home, we are indomitable. I urge you to remain calm and vigilant. Our country is safe.
    God bless you all, and God bless Kenya.

  60. But even if we had invested in property, I would have thought that it was quite allright to do that, or any other commodity for that matter.

    No objections to working any system that is set up. Doesn’t mean the system is set up fairly. Treating the monopoly right to use land as an asset rather than a license is not good economics. Today’s system is not that far removed from the feudal one; just more widely distributed. It still drives the gap between rich and poor.

  61. JC

    It still drives the gap between rich and poor.

    so what?

  62. Colmac

    Gillard’s book title. Heart of Darkness.

  63. C.L.

    BILL Shorten has told Labor’s gay lobby group – Rainbow Labor – that he will consider creating a shadow ministry for equality if he is elected leader.

    LOL.

  64. C.L.

    It’s My Party and I’ll Lie If I Want To

    Not bad.

  65. C.L.

    Cutting taxes can only be liberating. Starve the beast.

    Yeah, I agree, Dot.

    Unfortunately, 50+ percent of the electorate want their free stuff and they’ll vote accordingly.

  66. Still Waters

    “Gillard: Australia’s First Female BM.”

  67. Leo G

    Leo, what do you mean by “nominees” – Armadillo

    A definition of nominee ownership.

  68. C.L.

    Indonesia stabs Australia in the back:

    Indonesia’s foreign minister Marty Natalegawa divulges contents of talks with Julie Bishop.

    Alexander Downer hits the duplicitous turd with a baseball bat:

    Indonesia should stop pious rhetoric: Downer

    Former foreign minister Alexander Downer says Dr Natalegawa should not be “taking shots” at Australia as soon as a new government is elected.

    “Let me make this point for Mr Natalegawa’s benefit: Indonesian-flagged boats with Indonesian crews are breaking our laws bringing people into our our territorial waters,” he told ABC’s The Drum.

    “This is a breach of our sovereignty and the Indonesians need to understand that instead of a lot of pious rhetoric about the Australian Government breaching their sovereignty.

    “Their people, their boats, their crews are breaching our sovereignty and this is something that needs to be worked out in a mature and constructive way as it was during the Howard years.

    “Indonesia has a heavy responsibility to bear in helping Australia solve this problem, not take the view that they can liberally attack the Australian Government and continue to allow their boats with their crews bringing people to our country … breaking our laws in doing so.”

  69. JC

    Unfortunately, 50+ percent of the electorate want their free stuff and they’ll vote accordingly.

    I really dunno how you stop that. My thinking is that the government media (their ABC) is hugely important in funneling the Marxist view and dismantling it is perhaps one of the most important objectives of any right wing government.

    The time is now though, because it’s important to risk it when the electorate will not cop the dare so early to elect the other side.

    Slow motion won’t work.

  70. candy

    Indonesia stabs Australia in the back:

    C.L.
    I’m wondering if you could give your opinion on what will pan out with the situation with Indonesia as it seems to be heading towards something, or is it all tough talk before Mr Abbott goes over there? I would be interested to know what you think.

  71. Cold-Hands

    Will, the article you cite is dated 24/9/2013 and contains a lot of surmise. According to the latest reports, charges have yet to be laid; the Russians have another 24 hours to do so.

  72. Cold-Hands

    Lizzie, PF in response to Toiling Mass:

    Popular Front
    #1014512, posted on September 26, 2013 at 12:00 pm
    She Shtups to Conquer?

    LOL Toiling Mass. I wonder how many other cats will ‘get it’?

  73. Leo G

    “Indonesia stabs Australia in the back. … what will pan out with the situation with Indonesia as it seems to be heading towards something …”

    It’s wrong to regard this as a betrayal by the Indonesians. It is more of a reproach for the apparent disregard by Australia of the current political situation in Indonesia.
    Indonesia is heading into presidential, general and regional elections. Of particular concern, a president is limited to two terms, so Yudhoyono is ineligible to run for a third term starting in 2014.
    Julie Bishop has been cautioned.
    And the Abbott government’s response via Alexander Downer may well be welcomed by the Indonesians.

  74. “What’s love got to do with it?” (How to choose the right boyfriend, by former Australian PM Julia Gillard)

  75. kae

    Did someone mention the creepy Vodafone ad?

    The “I feel like a child” one?

    Adult bodies with toddler’s heads?

    Ick. Creepy.

  76. Unfortunately, 50+ percent of the electorate want their free stuff and they’ll vote accordingly.

    I really dunno how you stop that.

    You make eligibility for senate voting conditional on not receiving your primary source of income from the government, like it always should have been.

  77. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From C.L. at 8:00 pm:

    “Indonesia stabs Australia in the back:

    Indonesia’s foreign minister Marty Natalegawa divulges contents of talks with Julie Bishop.

    Alexander Downer hits the duplicitous turd with a baseball bat:”

    The early reports had it that Natalegawa, a marvelously well schooled and capable fellow, was obliged to massage his comments for his way more important audience among the 240 million Indonesians.

    There is general election and a presidential election in 2014 which may, just may have something to do with that.

    We ought not forget President Yudhoyono offered the best advice of all some years ago to Labor, about “taking the sugar off the table.”

    Hidden away in what Downer said one finds:

    “Their people, their boats, their crews are breaching our sovereignty and this is something that needs to be worked out in a mature and constructive way as it was during the Howard years.”

    I wouldn’t crank up the Wirraways and Sabre Jets for a bombing run just yet – Tony Abbott and Marty Natalegawa may well prove capable of “worked out in a mature and constructive way.” I’ll be surprised if they are not.

  78. Motelier

    Rain!

    And thunder and lightning to boot……

    Yeeeehaaaaaah

  79. Motelier

    Dullards book will eventually end up being one of the penny horror stories aimed at the married ladies.

    Me and five husbands.

  80. Armadillo

    A definition of nominee ownership.

    Right, now I follow. I assume the assets being used are Australian real estate (or is it overseas real estate)?

  81. candy

    There is general election and a presidential election in 2014 which may, just may have something to do with that.

    I noticed Tony Abbott mentioned that in his speech to the Press Club about his upcoming new ministry when he was prime minister elect, so it must have significance.

  82. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From kae at 8:35 pm:

    “Did someone mention the creepy Vodafone ad?”

    The favourite, stop what we’re doing and watch, advertisement here is when a fellow offers a former acquaintance a lift in his car and, as she reaches for the seat belt, he comments on her pregnancy.

    She laughs a jolly laugh and says “I’m not pregnant, I just like cake.”

    I still don’t know what they’re advertising but it brings the house down every time.

    It’s “To keep the rabbits out” funny.

  83. C.L.

    Candy, I actually think the elevated rhetoric and aggro from Indonesia is a good sign. It shows that they’re taking Abbott very very seriously and fear the old way of doing things is coming to an end. They don’t like that because the last thing they want is thousands of Muslim refugees making claims on Indonesia’s own home-grown charity – which is non-existent, by the way. (That’s why they’ve been corruptly facilitating the boats racket – while laughing at us). I expect Abbott to calmly put the Downer case to the Indonesian President when he goes there.

  84. candy

    It shows that they’re taking Abbott very very seriously and fear the old way of doing things is coming to an end.

    I think that’s the impression coming across too. Thanks C.L. for taking the time to respond.

  85. brc

    brc, so what your saying is basically an increase in rates to off-set the lost revenue from stamp duties? I’m assuming it would need to based on property value?

    Getting back to this : instead of stamp duties, there is a state land tax based on the value if the land. This is paid yearly/quarterly/whatever. Separate to council rates because those bastards are free to raise them at will. Receipts to the office of state revenue same as stamp,duty is currently.

    It is more equitable as you pay as you go along without having to fork out up front. It also ensures that land is used and not banked for speculation. It gives a more predictable revenue stream for the state and is pretty much a constant cost of life for living somewhere.

    You would grandfather people in – you wouldn’t start paying the tax until you bought a new property (it would be inequitable to hit those who have already paid stamp duty with a new tax, unless you gave them a weighted refund first. You would have to be careful with implementation to prevent any freeze up and boom f the market.

    It’s worth someone talking about anyway. Preferably with some sort of impossible -to-raise poison pill in the rate of tax.

    Americans all pay property taxes so it’s not like it’s a radical idea. There system is superior because the property tax collected goes back to their own area. So places with high taxes get good schools, etc.

    I’m not sure about the impact to farming properties, but you would have a set scheme for agricultural land that mighty be different from commercial and residential land. The most important thing is to not double tax people with stamp duties and land taxes.

  86. brc

    On Indonesia , I don’t particlarly want our government to bow dwn to kiss indonesian ass to prevent getting sem bad press. Abbott rarely gets any good press so he should just say ‘do your worst, can’t be anything as bad as the last 4 years, your unlikely to insult my family personally. But we are stopping this trade, so get used to it’

  87. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Leo G at 8:28 pm:

    “It’s wrong to regard this as a betrayal by the Indonesians. It is more of a reproach for the apparent disregard by Australia of the current political situation in Indonesia.
    Indonesia is heading into presidential, general and regional elections. Of particular concern, a president is limited to two terms, so Yudhoyono is ineligible to run for a third term starting in 2014.
    Julie Bishop has been cautioned.
    And the Abbott government’s response via Alexander Downer may well be welcomed by the Indonesians.”

    That too Leo G, as you point out this is how these things work.

    John Howard and Alexander Downer carefully built a sound relationship with Yudhoyono and one expects it still has high value. Indonesia is immensely important to Australia and to dismiss them as aid gobbling pirates is ignorant.

  88. Tom

    Excellent analysis, CL. Thanks.

  89. Token

    Fellow Kenyans,
    Last weekend, terrorists alighted in Nairobi and unleashed unspeakable and unforgivable atrocity on Kenyans and our visitors.
    The agents of Terror themselves craven wretches and lowly cowards had the agenda of perpetrating grievous mayhem in our country, senselessly killing, maiming and traumatizing harmless, innocent people.

    Americans voted the wrong Kenyan president. This one would’ve made their country a better place after 8 years.

  90. Oh come on

    Leo G: sure, not all of them are Chinese and not all are cashed up. Many or perhaps most are, however. And what you said doesn’t negate the point I made, anyway.

  91. Token

    Indonesia stabs Australia in the back:

    It’s like the Godfather, it is not person it is business. The business is to play to the audience back home to convince them they won.

    They are trying to goad the Australia government to allow them to get a better deal (cattle farms in the Northern Territory and all that).

    Former foreign minister Alexander Downer says Dr Natalegawa should not be “taking shots” at Australia as soon as a new government is elected.

    I like how Downer is playing the bulldog proxy for the Abbott government (almost like Lee Kwan Yu does) slugging back on behalf of a government which knows it is prudent not to speak.

  92. Leo G

    She Shtups to Conquer? … LOL Toiling Mass. I wonder how many other cats will ‘get it’?

    We got the joke when she was PM. I, for one, don’t mourn the death of the slappershtick ‘comedy’.

  93. Driftforge

    I’m not sure about the impact to farming properties, but you would have a set scheme for agricultural land that mighty be different from commercial and residential land.

    The critical difference with agricultural land is that almost all improvements to agricultural land are inseparable from the productivity of the land itself. You can still have a land tax, but in exchange the government must tip in a reasonable (and fixed) proportion of the cost of any improvement.

  94. Armadillo

    I like how Downer is playing the bulldog proxy for the Abbott government

    Compare and contrast that to the Lateline interview recently where they tried to give the impression that the Indonesian Parliamentarian they interviewed was actually representing the Indonesian Government (when he was in fact the Australian equivalent of Tubbsie Milne).

    The ABC is more against our own nations interests than for them. As long as they can “score a point” against Abbott, they don’t give a crap. They have done more damage than Downer ever will by simply stirring up shit to advance their own left agenda.

  95. Driftforge

    The real bonus for agricultural land if you do this is that costs plummet in times of drought, and pick up in times of plenty. I think the system is at its best for ag land once you sort out the issue of contributions to improvements.

  96. Tom

    It’s like the Godfather, it is not person it is business. The business is to play to the audience back home to convince them they won.

    Natalegawa’s statements in New York this week have been pure domestic politicking in Bahasa (translated into English) aimed at the Javanese.

    The 80% of the Australian media with the visceral hatred of Abbott have behaved like delinquent children. These fucking media dregs disgust me — they continue to dress up cheap low-rent activism as journalism. They are trashing the industry and yet they will be the first to squeal when their own childish irresponsibility destroys their jobs. One way or another, you will soon leave the industry, you fucking vermin.

  97. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From JC at 7:40 pm:

    ” It still drives the gap between rich and poor.

    so what?”

    Oh hear bloody hear!

    You should be commended for that instantaneous, correct response JC.

  98. Token

    There was a Canadian who was playing the racist card for all its worth tonight (as if muslim is a race) on Price / Bolt who would be best described as a Fly-blown Luvvie, a variant of the Plastic Paddy:

    There is one thing worse to an Irish person than an Englishman telling them what to do: a plastic Paddy. Here’s Urban Dictionary’s take on that particular phenomenon:

    Plastic Paddy (n.) a person who retains a strong sense of Irish cultural identity despite not having been born in Ireland or being of only partial Irish descent; generally used in reference to Irish-English or Irish-Americans. Perceived as irritating poseurs by Irish nationals.

  99. Token

    These fucking media dregs disgust me — they continue to dress up cheap low-rent activism as journalism.

    Remember when they cheered on Keating when he called Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad as “recalcitrant”.

    Howard held his tongue, even when Mahathir struck out at him later on with result that relations with Malaysia were strong during the term of his government (before Krudd’s brain farts like the Asia Union p*ssed off the region)

  100. ” It still drives the gap between rich and poor.

    so what?”

    So what? It’s a bloody parasitic load on the economy is what. Wealth for no labour, at no risk, through no effort of the owner. The current treatment of land as an asset exacerbates any unexpected changes to the economy, increasing volatility and decreasing the amount of capital available to be put to productive use..

    That’s what.

  101. JC

    Interesting, so if I buy a stock and it goes up it’s parasitic is it?

    And land is a classed as an asset, bro.

    Wealth for no labour, at no risk

    You mean like earning interest?

  102. Regarding rich and poor – I have no problem with some being rich, some being poor, some being smart, some being dumb, some being JC and some being Monty.

    That’s life.

    But setting up a system that inherently siphons money from the poor to give to the rich, at a cost to society as a whole, is inexcusable when there are other options.

  103. You mean like earning interest? / owning stock

    No. In that you receive a return because you are contributing to the productivity of society. There, somewhere down the line, is a return from that.

    The ownership of land is not like that. The value of land is in the forbearance of others, allowing you the sole right to use of that space. Apart from the direct productivity of land (see agriculture above), it’s value almost exclusively flows from the contributions of others that are available to it, and changes in its value flow from changes brought by others.

  104. JC

    But setting up a system that inherently siphons money from the poor to give to the rich, at a cost to society as a whole, is inexcusable when there are other options.

    That’s seriously fucked up thinking and bordering on communism. So if I buy a block of land which goes up in value, you consider that to be taking from the poor and giving it to the rich.

    any other bright ideas there squire?

  105. calli

    Wealth for no labour, at no risk

    I beg to differ Driftforge. Labour pays for the interest on loans for property (in my case up to 17%). At that time, it was so difficult to service the loan I took advantage of an opportunity offered in PNG that allowed me to pay off my mortgage…and that was real risk.

    So, wealth came with labour and risk, in my case, that is. As for others, they may have a different story to tell.

  106. JC

    No. In that you receive a return because you are contributing to the productivity of society. There, somewhere down the line, is a return from that.

    I don’t give a shit about being productive to shociety. I have no responsibility to the fucker at the other end of the street in terms of being productive for his benefit.

    The ownership of land is not like that.

    No it isn’t. That’s just fucked up thinking.

    The value of land is in the forbearance of others, allowing you the sole right to use of that space.

    lol, allowing me now. How about the hypothetical baseball bat I keep.

    Apart from the direct productivity of land (see agriculture above), it’s value almost exclusively flows from the contributions of others that are available to it, and changes in its value flow from changes brought by others.

    Look, champ, I dunno where the fuck you’re getting all this, except perhaps you’ve been reading far too much of Henry George. However the land I have doesn’t have to be productive. I simply needs to provide utility and in this case holding up a house I like to live in. It has nothing to do with being productive and shouldn’t have.

  107. Driftforge

    That’s seriously fucked up thinking and bordering on communism. So if I buy a block of land which goes up in value, you consider that to be taking from the poor and giving it to the rich.

    Yes. Technically it’s Georgism. It requires that you pay for the benefit you actually receive from the land, and that you actually pay it to those on the other end of the contract not to use that land, rather than the previous ‘owner’.

  108. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Driftforge at 9:32 pm

    “and decreasing the amount of capital available to be put to productive use..

    That’s what.”

    “Productive use” as determined by, say, a megalomaniacal narcissist millionaire and a reffo pommie shop steward still railing against Margaret Thatcher for reintroducing child slavery, on an aeroplane, on the back of an envelope resulting in a completely unnecessary national internet land line costing exponentially more than the non existent feasibility analysis predictions, managed by dumb, truly dumb union mates of theirs on half a million taxpayer dollars per annum as a salary for completely cocking it up.

    Yeah, that’ll work. That’s what.

    Or a desalination plant times five.

  109. Motelier

    Wealth for no labour, at no risk

    And those in the investment market do carry a risk and do provide a service.

    The risk is multi-faceted. The service is to provide housing to those that can not and probably will never have the means to ever own a house.

  110. Token

    But setting up a system that inherently siphons money from the poor to give to the rich, at a cost to society as a whole, is inexcusable when there are other options.

    What blog am I reading? Has someone set up a faux Cat?

    What do you mean by this Drift?

  111. JC

    Yes. Technically it’s Georgism.

    Of Course it is. George had some good ideas about land tax etc, but he too extreme and is heading towards communism.

    It requires that you pay for the benefit you actually receive from the land,

    I did. I paid the previous owner.

    and that you actually pay it to those on the other end of the contract not to use that land, rather than the previous ‘owner’.

    Why should I pay other people? It’s not their land as I have title to it.

  112. Candy, I actually think the elevated rhetoric and aggro from Indonesia is a good sign. It shows that they’re taking Abbott very very seriously and fear the old way of doing things is coming to an end. They don’t like that because the last thing they want is thousands of Muslim refugees making claims on Indonesia’s own home-grown charity – which is non-existent, by the way. (That’s why they’ve been corruptly facilitating the boats racket – while laughing at us). I expect Abbott to calmly put the Downer case to the Indonesian President when he goes there.

    Plus they are a bunch of filthy misogynists who believe a female Foreign Minister is not worth half a male one, and that to be sent such a one is an insult on our part.

    But I have heard very little about this from the MSM.

    Suck it up, boys.

  113. Driftforge

    Yep, the other alternative is the baseball bat you keep. But hey, what’s a little use of force to achieve our ends between liberarians?

  114. PS I probably should have said ‘such an one’, but I am not in full Gilbert and Sullivan mode this evening.

  115. Leo G

    But setting up a system that inherently siphons money from the poor to give to the rich, at a cost to society as a whole, is inexcusable when there are other options.

    I concur- the system encourages over-investment by the wealthy in non-productive property assets.

  116. Driftforge

    The utility of the land is bound up in the right to sole use thereof. Why should you pay someone to allow you sole use of land? Because otherwise it’s baseball bats all around.

  117. Motelier

    Leo G
    Non Productive Property assets are those that do not have a dwelling on them, is that correct?

  118. JC

    What blog am I reading? Has someone set up a faux Cat?

    What do you mean by this Drift?

    It’s just Drift has possibly been reading too much of Henry George and has himself all worked up about it.

    Drift has a little problem with this principle though, that the Georgists haven’t really been thinking about that much. We don’t have to live on land. We can also live quite comfortable now on artificial land and some of the richest people do. In apartments.

  119. Token

    On a lighter note, here is an article to put aside for when the leftards make their inevitable claims of voter suppression when the Coalition finally introduces a law to require voters to show ID:

    When Common Cause Georgia — a liberal “citizens’ lobby organization” — originally filed a federal lawsuit in 2005 over Georgia’s voter ID law along with a number of other plaintiffs, the organization claimed that hundreds of thousands of Georgians would be unable to vote. They produced witness after witness — who signed affidavits under penalty of perjury — claiming that they did not have a photo ID and could not obtain the free Georgia photo ID the law provided, and therefore would be turned away at the polls. The plaintiffs lost their lawsuit (as well as a state court action) after the federal court concluded that the law was neither discriminatory nor a burden on voters, and that none of them would be unable to vote.

    Was the court wrong? Were the claims of these witnesses true? Were these individual Georgians prevented from casting their ballots?

    Official state voting records show that the court was right. Many of these witnesses — again, who signed affidavits — went on to vote in the 2008, 2010, and 2012 elections.

    …Georgia voting records disprove the insistent claims that voter ID laws strip minority and elderly voters of the right to vote. These witnesses, after signing sworn affidavits that they did not have and could not obtain a Georgia voter ID card, nevertheless did obtain ID cards and did cast their ballots.

  120. Driftforge

    Where George went wrong – and why he gets support from socialists – is that he failed to find a way to recognise the contribution that we each make to the value of land around us. It is critical to recognise this, as without it the system doesn’t work.

    The contribution made by the community needs to be recompensed, as does the contribution made by the individual to the community.

  121. JC

    The utility of the land is bound up in the right to sole use thereof.

    No it isn’t. The utility of a piece of land is determined by the market pricing it accordingly. Toorak land for instance isn’t being used for industrial purposes for a good reason.

    Why should you pay someone to allow you sole use of land?

    You don’t allow me the use of my land. The title I bought does. You drfit, have absolutely nothing to do with it and if you came here and claimed a right to it, I’d hit a home run with your head.

    Because otherwise it’s baseball bats all around.

    Really? I’m not seeing much of that.

  122. Driftforge

    Anyway, family calls. Catch you all later.

  123. Driftforge

    And of course the land in Toorak would hold that value if there were no limitations on who could use it.

    The person with the highest utility and capacity to pay is willing to pay the most to have sole use of that land.

  124. calli

    The contribution made by the community needs to be recompensed, as does the contribution made by the individual to the community.

    What on earth does that even mean?

  125. JC

    Actually I don’t own much land. Hay fever coming from lawn and trees tortures me. Our house sits on nearly all the land save for a small piece for outside dining and sitting.

  126. Motelier

    The discussion about land use tonight only really made sense when talking about stamp duties and such. After that it seemed to degenerate into discussion about the use of land and how it should be made more affordable.

    Bugger me.

    I have been in the housing market since 1985, and I am sure that the value of land, housing, shares and labour have gone up a similar amount.

  127. JC

    And of course the land in Toorak would hold that value if there were no limitations on who could use it.

    Yea, so what?

    The person with the highest utility and capacity to pay is willing to pay the most to have sole use of that land.

    Tell us something we didn’t know.

    Before you were explaining how people use land unproductively until I reminded you that land also has utility. I notice you’re backpedaling from that “shociety” swill.

  128. Motelier

    JC google Steve Elkiington. Sounds similar.

  129. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Driftforge at 9:47 pm:

    ” That’s seriously fucked up thinking and bordering on communism. So if I buy a block of land which goes up in value, you consider that to be taking from the poor and giving it to the rich.

    Yes. Technically it’s Georgism. It requires that you pay for the benefit you actually receive from the land, and that you actually pay it to those on the other end of the contract not to use that land, rather than the previous ‘owner’.”

    Here’s a tip.

    Jump on a plane to Mackay and talk to any one of the Italian names on numerous buildings in the industrial area around the airport.

    Tell ’em their father’s and grandfather’s sugar cane plots, on which the warehouses are built, really belong to the local council performing arts centre dreadlockers, that their families must now forego the good fortune of having worked cane blocks on the outskirts of what became a much bigger town, use terms such as “social licence”, “contribute to society” and “social wage.”

    Let ’em know that the Mackay community’s most vulnerable have had a gutful of forebearing and want them out by Friday fortnight. They’d be interested too to hear that indefeasible title is a cruel feudal construct and now redundant.

    Another tip – leave your identification items in a safe locker at the airport. They are really difficult for ambos to read through the fleshy blood splatter.

  130. JC

    Cali and Motelier..

    Driftforge is a follower of Henry George. It’s basically a form of communism with an attempt at a libertarian face. A little has some merit, but most of it is horseshit.

    If we followed George we would fuck up our economy.

  131. Leo G

    Non Productive Property assets are those that do not have a dwelling on them, is that correct?

    Not really, they are assets that have a productive capacity, but which are not used productively. As when a hotelier unnecessarily reserves rooms for his own use which could be used to accommodate paying guests.

  132. Mick Gold Coast QLD #1014938, posted on September 26, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Very-well-put. hehehehehehe………..

  133. JC

    Henry George’s line of argument was that no one should have complete title to land as we all own it in a way. Taxes should be raised on land rather than the sweat of the brow. That’s the basic argument by George.

  134. JC

    Here’s the problem for George. This concept was from a bygone era when wealth was basically mostly tied up in land. You can be immensely wealthy now and not own one single slither of land. You can own stocks.

  135. calli

    Thanks, JC. I have a very strong sense for bullshit but b/s posing as ‘economics theory’ is a little elusive for me. I tend to stick with Orwell’s plain language ideas…if you can’t understand it, it’s crap (short version). 🙂

  136. Motelier

    As when a hotelier unnecessarily reserves rooms for his own use which could be used to accommodate paying guests.

    I can tell you from experience, in the last 6 years that has never happened. The trashing of the tourism industry by RuddGillardRudd has meant that every room is available for paying guests. However the number of paying guests has decreased.

  137. JC

    Cali

    I tend to think that taxes ought to be raised at consumption if they are to be raised at all. My guess is that we will see a move towards that end in the US by 2020 or so. The GOP is slowly moving in that direction and my long term bet is that there will be an election fought on that point alone.

  138. Motelier

    JC Thanks for the shorter explanation.

    I still do not get where the discussion came up tonight.

  139. The trashing of the tourism industry by RuddGillardRudd has meant that every room is available for paying guests. However the number of paying guests has decreased.

    I can second that. My room occupancy for 2013 so far is 50% of what it was the past couple of years. Then again, tourism is a negligible amount of my clientele.

  140. Motelier

    I tend to think that taxes ought to be raised at consumption if they are to be raised at all.

    And with no exemption.

  141. Motelier

    Steve,
    I include business tourism in my statement. We are in the same boat. However one of the properties has picked up in the last 7 months.

    Just hoping it spreads north.

  142. calli

    And to complete the circle, the discussion started with stamp duty imposed by the states…which in my recollection was to be repealed and replaced by monies raised by the GST. But the GST was narrowed and therefore the states retained some of their revenue raising, anachronistic taxes, or levies, or whatever they choose to call them.

  143. Motelier

    Calli,

    That was the fault of Meg Lees and the Democrats from what I remember.

    From where we sit food is the big elephant in the room. Unprocessed food is GST free, processed food ready for consumption has GST applied.

    Think of a restaurant – purchase food GST free, sell food and charge GST. Adds up to an nightmare every quarter as some of the purchases for food have GST applied and most do not. That meads we have to be very careful when preparing our BAS returns.

  144. Leo G

    I can tell you from experience, in the last 6 years that has never happened. The trashing of the tourism industry by RuddGillardRudd has meant that every room is available for paying guests. However the number of paying guests has decreased.

    Quite right. It would be absurd behaviour for a hotelier. But it is similar to what our tax system encourages homeowners to do with regard to their own homes, and what state and local government facilitate to increase government revenues, all of which has the effect of reducing the mobility and amenity do most of the population.

  145. JC

    Just hoping it spreads north.

    World economy may be up-ticking. I bought a some dead in the water shipping stocks about at week ago as a result of the relentless move up in global shipping rates. I made 36% on one dog dog of a stock in a week.

    Drybulk shipping rates rise again. Panamax pops 8.9%, capesize rises 5.2% overnight. Since Aug 12 capesize rates are up 300%
    Overnight, capesize rates rose 5.2% (or $2,206/day) to $42,211/day, panamax rates rose 8.9% (or $1,144) to $13,989/day, while supramax rates rose 2.6% to $10,579/day. The overall BDI rose 5.2% (or 106 pts) to 2,127 overnight.

    The Baltic Dry Index (BDI) is now up 17 out of the last 18 sessions (up 27 out of last 31 sessions).

    Since August 12 (a recent low), the BDI is up 114% to 2,127 (from 996), led by capesize rates. Meanwhile, capesize drybulk ship rates are up 300% (or $31,661/day) to $42,211/day, also since Aug 12, largely driven by higher iron ore shipments to China out of Brazil and Australia. Panamax rates are up 87%, largely driven by coal activity and anticipation of a good amount of shipments from a bountiful U.S. harvest.

    These are seriously huge moves. Something’s up. A mining dude told me China is also back in the coal and iron ore business in the big way.

    Australia could have a really guy up move in GDP if this hunch is right as we have pretty low interest rates. And of course Abbott and the Libs will be there to collect the accolades. 🙂

  146. JC

    I can tell you from experience, in the last 6 years that has never happened. The trashing of the tourism industry by RuddGillardRudd has meant that every room is available for paying guests. However the number of paying guests has decreased.

    Now that the election is over and the Libs have taken their rightful place in the seat of government. I don’t really think the Liars were at fault with a large part of the slowdown. Sure they fucked up confidence because they were so fucking useless and dangerously unpredictable. However a large part of the slowdown came from overseas… China slowing, Europe fucked… etc.

  147. JC

    should be ……Australia could have a really big up move..

  148. Motelier

    Quite right. It would be absurd behaviour for a hotelier. But it is similar to what our tax system encourages homeowners to do with regard to their own homes, and what state and local government facilitate to increase government revenues, all of which has the effect of reducing the mobility and amenity do most of the population.

    So is this to enable people to move from house to house by purchasing upwardly?
    A house with someone living there is not a non productive asset. And no amount of twisting of words will change that point of view.

    The only non productive assets that I can see are large swathes of land being left unused (land banking).

    However, I do agree that stamp duties and such need a good hard look but this should be done in the broader framework of a full tax review.

    In effect as JC said previously, “all taxes need to be raised at consumption”. In effect stamp duties are a consumption tax as they are taxed at the point of sale. It is the value of these Stamp Duties that needs to reviewed.

  149. As when a hotelier unnecessarily reserves rooms for his own use which could be used to accommodate paying guests.

    Quite right. It would be absurd behaviour for a hotelier.

    You betcha.

  150. dd

    The Indonesians are being very antogonistic towards the new Abbott government.

    Indonesia’s foreign minister has divulged the contents of his private discussions with his Australian counterpart Julie Bishop, warning the Government’s asylum seeker policies could damage relations.

    Marty Natalegawa met the new Foreign Affairs Minister in New York this week and the two spoke at length about a range of issues.

    In an unusual step, Dr Natalegawa’s department has issued a press release revealing details of the discussion, which included Australia’s plan to turn boats back to Indonesia.

    Their treatment of the Australian government is concerning. This is not the behaviour of a nation that wants to have good relations.

  151. Motelier

    Well people,

    I do need my ZZZZZZ’s

    Another day of sanding and painting tomorrow. Except I get to teach my eldest son the finer points of home renovations (external paint) so he can start to prep his own little abode.

    Night all.
    Play safe and play hard.

  152. Nanuestalker

    Actually I don’t own much land. Hay fever coming from lawn and trees tortures me. Our house sits on nearly all the land save for a small piece for outside dining and sitting.

    Sounds like you live in one of Rio favelas … Hmmm … which one is yours JC
    BTW, I never had hayfever until I moved to Melbourne and it has gradually got worse over the years, so I feel your pain JC

  153. Viva

    This is not the behaviour of a nation that wants to have good relations.

    Too right. Abbott said he is refraining from “megaphone diplomacy”. The Indonesians have decided not to return the favour.

  154. …I never had hayfever until I moved to Melbourne….

    Let that be a lesson to you! (Declaration: I’ve been to Melbourne several times, and cannot comprehend why anybody would willingly live there)

    To touch on the low-hotel-occupancy/tourism theme from upthread: There is no hay fever in my town.
    None

    Shall I reserve the Presidential Suite for you Nanuestalker? Or would you prefer to stay in a budget room and have a more extended stay?
    Perhaps an apartment with kitchen & stuff, so that you may self-cater? There are many other benefits to life in this great place…. (So there blanking-well ought to be, coz there’s enough drawbacks – but hay fever ain’t one of them!)

  155. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Viva at 11:16 pm

    ” This is not the behaviour of a nation that wants to have good relations.

    Too right. Abbott said he is refraining from “megaphone diplomacy”. The Indonesians have decided not to return the favour.”

    You might review your finding after reading through the extensive and informed discussion here from 8:00pm to 9:15pm tonight.

  156. Nanuestalker

    Where is your place Steve?

  157. JC

    Lol.. I still think they’re good lookers though even if they are self absorbed princesses.

    Either way, Gwyneth Paltrow and Miranda Kerr go head2head as we try to determine the most annoying celebrity.
    Gwyneth Paltrow

    She recently topped Star magazine’s poll for the top 20 most irritating celebrities, and her regular boasts about having the butt of a 22-year-old stripper are bound to get people riled. But 40-year-old Gwyneth Paltrow doesn’t stop there. No, Gwynnie has created a website and newsletter as well as a book to drive home the ridiculously expensive and extreme diet and fitness routines she chooses to follow.

    She’s as seemingly oblivious to the fact that her way of life is out of reach to those of us without our own maids, orchards and buckets of cash and time to throw at honing our bodies as she is to how dangerous her elimination diet is – despite the fact she’s developed osteopenia, a brittle bone disease associated with vitamin D deficiencies. Her holier than thou and scientifically misinformed approach to health has, curiously, turned her from an actress into some kind of health guru. Go figure.
    Miranda Kerr

    Just when you thought Miranda Kerr couldn’t get any more irritating – I mean, she’s married to Orlando Bloom and always looks impeccable, for goodness’ sake – she releases a book with surely the most annoying title ever, Treasure Yourself: Power Thoughts for My Generation. I suppose I can see why Miranda thinks she’s got it so sussed that she writes a highly patronising book about positive thinking, but all the positive thinking in the world isn’t going to make most of us a Victoria’s Secret model with an A-list husband and our own organic cosmetics range.

    But that’s okay – Miranda knows we can’t be as extraordinary as her… “I really don’t want girls to think they have to look like me. I want them to nurture themselves and really be the best they can be,” she says. We can’t all be perfect like Miranda, you see. Some of her book’s life-changing wisdom includes yoga: “It keeps me fit and healthy inside and out”, and eating well: “I eat the right foods for my body, drink lots of water and detox regularly”. Groundbreaking stuff. Thanks for the insight, Miranda.

  158. My location is classified Nanuestalker, however my dad gets hay fever really badly (on all fours for extended periods sneezing, trying to not tear a kidney loose type hay fever)
    He’s no fan of quackery, but swears by a potion concocted by a pharmacist in Bathurst. He buys a couple of fluid ounces of it a year, and takes just a drop or two in water every so often, it clears the hay fever right up.

  159. Leo G

    The only non productive assets that I can see are large swathes of land being left unused (land banking).

    The existence of unused land does not represent a lost opportunity for production.
    An illustration. The manner of a city’s development has a profound effect on the productive activity within. Some 85 years ago Sydney’s planners allowed for the long term expansion of the city’s population from 1.1 million to more than 2 million. The plan was to constrain the metropolitan area to little more than the then 542 square kilometre, believing that an ideal population density for a future population of 2 million was between 3000 and 4000 per square kilometre.
    The demand for road space to accommodate the shift to the motor car for mass transit destroyed that plan. Sydney’s population now exceeds 4.4 million over a greater metro area of 12,400 sq km with a population density of 372 per sq km.
    The trend to a tenfold reduction in population density compared with the plan has not been a productive trend- quite the opposite.

  160. Nanuestalker

    Steve – I was going to send m0nty in the hope it’s a true worker’s pub in the outback. m0nty in case you haven’t heard is a man’s man especially in times of [female] drought.

  161. tbh

    These are seriously huge moves. Something’s up. A mining dude told me China is also back in the coal and iron ore business in the big way.

    Australia could have a really guy up move in GDP if this hunch is right as we have pretty low interest rates. And of course Abbott and the Libs will be there to collect the accolades.

    I’m a semi regular follower of the BDI and I was startled to see it rise so quickly. If this is legit, then it’s a great thing for the world economy. I never really got out of stocks during the GFC, but I’m starting to think it’s time to investigate finding some more quality trading at low prices. The recent moves in the Aussie market have been mostly upwards too and I think that’s got a lot to do with the new government. Long may it continue.

  162. I’ll happily accept Monty as a customer, provided he pays.
    Heck, I’ve catered to most of the ALP hierarchy, and even lower types, without ever cracking. Monty’d fit right in. (Unless he started talking violence, this’d be one of the most unforgiving towns in this country for those who fancy themselves as a pug).

  163. tbh

    Either way, Gwyneth Paltrow and Miranda Kerr go head2head as we try to determine the most annoying celebrity.

    I never used to rate Paltrow until I saw her in Iron Man. As a redhead she’s an absolute stunner. Wow.

  164. JC

    I never used to rate Paltrow until I saw her in Iron Man. As a redhead she’s an absolute stunner. Wow.

    The firm I worked for in the mid 90’s bought a table at a charity event called the robin Hood Foundation- it’s a vanity thing run and organized by a prick of a hedge fund manager. She was there got on the stage and tried to sell a lunch date with herself. It was obvious the guests weren’t buying. Finally someone possibly part of the event stuck his hand up and bought the lunch date. It was really funny because it started to become a little embarrassing for her. She looked great though.

  165. JC

    I’ll happily accept Monty as a customer, provided he pays.

    Good luck. My suggestion is don’t run a tab for him.

  166. Good luck. My suggestion is don’t run a tab for him.

    I don’t know which part of Australia you’re from JC, but everywhere I’ve been the concept of a “tab” is unknown. Come to think of it, I’ve only ever seen it on TV, in American sitcoms.

    In real life it is “no monee, no drinkee”.

  167. C.L.

    NARAL ‘Pro-Choice’ America – one of the biggest killers of children on earth – sends a shout out to Pope Francis.

  168. JC

    Shows how long ago I actually went to a bar, Steve. They sort of run tabs here if you give over the credit card.

    I don’t get why there’s no concept of running a tab here though. Nearly everyone would pay.

  169. JC

    I warned you right at the beginning the dude was dick, CL. I knew right at the start. Being Argentinian was the clue.

  170. Nanuestalker

    I don’t know which part of Australia you’re from JC, but everywhere I’ve been the concept of a “tab” is unknown. Come to think of it, I’ve only ever seen it on TV, in American sitcoms.

    Credit card tabs are pretty common but I can run “cash later” tabs in a few of my regular haunts in Melbourne without any problem. Comes in handy when lunch goes past supper time!

  171. twostix

    The yoof of today also fail to factor in that they are likely to inherit cash, largesse that their parents probably didn’t get.

    Hey that reminds me about the deulge of boomers who are sticking their parents into flash new taxpayer funded aged care facilities while holding onto their parents houses so they can sell them when their last parent dies and keep the money. Instead of selling the house and putting the parent into private care.

    Talk about spongers.

  172. twostix

    What a nightmare:

    A 7th-grade student in Virginia Beach, Va., suspended from school for shooting an airsoft gun in his front yard will find out on Monday if he is expelled for the rest of the year, a local television station reported.

    Khalid Caraballo, 13, and some friends were playing with airsoft guns on his front lawn as they waited for the bus one morning, WAVY first reported. Airsoft guns are non-lethal replica firearms that fire plastic pellets by way of spring-driven pistons.

    A concerned neighbor called 911 to report the incident.

    “He is pointing the gun, and it looks like there’s a target in a tree in his front yard,” she told the dispatcher. “This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me [uncomfortable], as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun.”
    Ironically, the caller’s son was playing with Khalid and Aidan in the Caraballo front yard.

    The hell? Her boy is playing with kids with toy guns, she knows they’re toy guns and she calls the police on them? Then the school expels them? What is this madness?

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/09/all-your-front-yards-are-belong-to-school-zero-tolerance-policies/

  173. twostix

    In fifty years we’ll find out that state schools are rife with abuse and cover ups, then an ALP PM will piously apologise:

    A MOTHER who helped trigger a royal commission into child sex abuse at a primary school — a crime kept from parents for two years — hopes the state Ombudsman’s findings force change within the “dysfunctional” South Australian Education Department.

    Danyse Soester, who complained last year to Ombudsman Richard Bingham about parents of pupils being kept in the dark over the December 2010 incident, yesterday welcomed the tabling in parliament of the Ombudsman’s final report as a “stepping stone” for change.

    There were more questions in parliament yesterday for the government about a separate sex assault case at a high school in 2010, which, as revealed by The Australian this week, only came to the attention of police this year after an alleged female victim made a complaint. A former male pupil is due to face court next week.

    Investigations have started into why the school failed to alert authorities at the time, Ms Rankine told parliament.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/mother-welcomes-sex-abuse-findings/story-e6frgczx-1226727908034

  174. A Lurker

    Why I use the word Progressive as a derogatory term.

    This is a must watch.

  175. Last night after responding to twostix’s anti-boomer, anti-property investment spray (Worst.Generation.Ever. …. He said, among other things) I had some modem issues so onlycaught up this morning. Good to see JC, Mick, and one or two others making sensible comments about views bordering on communism.
    Then on the radio I heard a correspondent report from Venezuela. Chavez has bankruptednthe country and among other things, despite all that oil wealth, the Bolivar is severely devalued. But on the property front, he made such bad laws that the owner of two apartments had to rent both of themout for peppercorn rent and live in a garage. Extreme rent control.

  176. Tom

    This is a must watch.

    Pat Condell has what they call “cut-through”, Lurker. It is, indeed, a must-watch.

  177. will

    The existence of unused land does not represent a lost opportunity for production.
    An illustration. The manner of a city’s development has a profound effect on the productive activity within. Some 85 years ago Sydney’s planners allowed for the long term expansion of the city’s population from 1.1 million to more than 2 million. The plan was to constrain the metropolitan area to little more than the then 542 square kilometre, believing that an ideal population density for a future population of 2 million was between 3000 and 4000 per square kilometre.
    The demand for road space to accommodate the shift to the motor car for mass transit destroyed that plan. Sydney’s population now exceeds 4.4 million over a greater metro area of 12,400 sq km with a population density of 372 per sq km.
    The trend to a tenfold reduction in population density compared with the plan has not been a productive trend- quite the opposite.

    You might not think it “productive”, but it has been driven by consumer choice. No one wants to live like Manhattan or Shanghai. Extra travel time is the ‘price’ people pay, and are prepared to pay, to live a suburban lifestyle.

  178. Tal

    Halal media,that’s a keeper

  179. Rafe

    Starting the day with Alan Jones on the Power Wireless 2GB 873.
    “What did Winnie the Pooh and Alexander the Great have in common?”
    Actually when you write it out, it becomes obvious.
    The answer is “the same middle name”.

  180. Hmm. still having bigpond modem issues.
    Nevertheless:

    I see the ABC is still fudging with the truth in reporting something fairly unremarkable. The other day, Christopher Pyne said that the coalition opposes compulsory student unionism, “but it’s not a high priority”. This was reported as if he’d announced that they were about to abolish compulsory fees.

    Then yesterday, when Tony Abbott came out and said much the same thing, it was reported as if he’d squashed Pyne’s reckless statement, and that there was dissent or disorganisation in the new government ranks.
    Dishonest reporting is still #1 tactic for many in the media. They are also in love with “Dr.” Nutellagaga, and will give his statements high rotation for purely vexatious effect.

  181. Mike of Marion

    JC
    #1014996, posted on September 27, 2013 at 12:15 am

    You are right. I reckon it is the Bride who shouted the honeymoon overseas!!!!!

  182. Tom

    Yesterday, it was a whiney Gen Y bank clerk blaming Abbott666 for Sydney property prices. Today, the prohibitionist totalitarian progressives at ShakeMyHead.com have dug up a Year 10 fascist demanding that grown-ups be thrown in gaol:

    The uneasy silence from those in power while teenagers drink their lives away is frightening.

    The casual nature with which teenagers now abuse alcohol and recreational drugs has gone beyond the point where it is simply an issue for the minority; it is now entrenched within the core of the Australian adolescent experience.

    …It is time for the government to get real with parents, and stamp down their authority. Parents who provide alcohol to someone else’s child, thus jeopardising that child’s mental development, display an abhorrent lack of competency, not just as a parent but as a member of society, as a human being. There is no excuse for such a crime. Parents who do such a thing should face several years in prison.

  183. pete m

    Homent – we shut down the computer and re-started and it re-logged bigpoond – or cycle the modem thru a shut down – telstra having issues after they announce 1100 job cuts is kinda interesting timing – me thinks someone out back decided to flick a switch on them

  184. Token

    As usual, The Australian ignores the host of scandals including the resignation of the IRS chief for overt political persecution on behalf of the Obama admin, and presents it as achieving an important diplomatic milestone:

    Gone was the nasty rhetoric of his predecessor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who denied the Holocaust, referred to the US as “The Great Satan”, and delighted in calling for Israel to be “wiped from the map”

    …whereas its stable mate WSJ reviews the same speech and notes the new Iranian president was able to continue the Irani regime’s denial of the holocaust which CNN is covering up:

    One problem: The words attributed to Mr. Rouhani are not what he said.

    According to CNN’s translation of Mr. Rouhani’s remarks, the Iranian President insisted that “whatever criminality they [the Nazis] committed against the Jews, we condemn.” Yet as Iran’s semi-official news agency Fars pointed out, Mr. Rouhani never uttered anything approximating those words. Nor, contrary to the CNN version, did he utter the word “Holocaust.” Instead, he spoke about “historical events.” Our independent translation of Mr. Rouhani’s comments confirms that Fars, not CNN, got the Farsi right.

    So what did Mr. Rouhani really say? After offering a vague indictment of “the crime committed by the Nazis both against the Jews and the non-Jews,” he insisted that “I am not a history scholar,” and that “the aspects that you talk about, clarification of these aspects is a duty of the historians and researchers.”

    Pretending that the facts of the Holocaust are a matter of serious historical dispute is a classic rhetorical evasion. Holocaust deniers commonly acknowledge that Jews were killed by the Nazis while insisting that the number of Jewish victims was relatively small and that there was no systematic effort to wipe them out.

    Yes, more lying from the liars who lie to convince people to make decisions against their own self interest.

  185. Token

    Parents who provide alcohol to someone else’s child, thus jeopardising that child’s mental development, display an abhorrent lack of competency, not just as a parent but as a member of society, as a human being.

    To paraphrase the bard –

    A totalitarian by any other name is still a totalitarian.

  186. Token

    Thank goodness we were fortunate enough to throw TLS, Nanny Roxon, Senator Red Underpants, Plibersek and the rest nuveau totalitarians out. Their hate speech legislation would have been an effective tool in the hands of the people encouraged by the Post-Racial Hope & Change president to fabricate claims of racial vilification:

    Like the word “heretic” in an earlier age, “racism” is more weapon than word. Its primary effect is not to describe but to intimidate, ostracize, and silence. What semantic significance it may command is overshadowed by its use as an epithet. Once successfully applied to a person or practice, a sort of secular damnation, or at least excommunication, ensues. Seldom is there any appeal, let alone absolution. Those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, said St. Mark, cannot be forgiven. Racism is the eternal, the unforgivable, sin of our age. Those successfully accused of racism are beyond the pale, cast out into the place of fletus et stridor dentium, “of wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Exactly why this should be takes us into deep waters. We do not pretend to have the answer.

    The article documents the how over the past 6 years there has been an esculation of “Race Scandals” where people claim to be vilified, but are found to have fabricated the evidence to obtain political or other advantage (while those accused will have their life unfairly destroyed like Mr Zimmerman):

    Item: At the end of August, the New Jersey website nj.com reported that a sixteen-year- old black student at St. Peter’s Prep who had purportedly received racist text messages warning him to drop out of a student government election had actually sent the messages to himself. “The sixteen-year-old was running for president for the Student Council in May when he supposedly received four hateful text messages,” the report explained. “He brought them to the attention of school officials who called in his father and police.” The report did not reveal how the police determined his guilt, but it did quote a school spokesman who commended the police and expressed relief that the “extremely distressing incident” had found “closure.”

    Item: Last month The Daily Caller reported on an incident at the ostentatiously “progressive” Oberlin College in Ohio. This time the anti-Black messages circulating around campus were joined by anti-Jewish and anti- homosexual messages. It turns out that one of the two principle culprits was a vociferous supporter of Obama who belonged to such groups as “White Allies Against Structural Racism” and who describes himself on Twitter as an “atheist/pacifist/environmentalist/libertarian socialist/consequentialist.” As William A. Jacobson reports on his website legalinsurrection.com, “School officials and local police knew the identity of the culprits, who were responsible for most if not all of such incidents on campus, yet remained silent as the campus reacted as if the incidents were real. National media attention focused on campus racism at Oberlin for weeks without knowing it was a hoax.”

    Jacobson presents a revealing timeline of how the hoax developed, was taken up by the national media, was covered up by college officials, and was finally exposed by Chuck Ross at The Daily Caller. As the historian Robert Paquette shows at the website “SeeThruEdu,” particularly egregious was the behavior of Oberlin’s president, the almost comically politically correct Martin Krislov, who was happy to pose and preen for the national media, declaring that “investigating these events has been our highest priority” even after he knew the identity of the culprits. I concur with Paquette: “One hopes that no conservative, libertarian, or traditionalist student goes to Oberlin College, and after Krislov’s performance the parents of such children should be put on their guard to avoid that school like the plague.”

    And on and on it goes. Readers interested in other such incidents might turn to the infamous Duke “rape” case from 2006, the roundup of such incidents of manufactured “hate crimes” compiled by conservativeintel.com last month, or many other examples.

    As we noted, it was a close run thing avoiding that legislation.

  187. Combine Dave

    Parents who provide alcohol to someone else’s child, thus jeopardising that child’s mental development, display an abhorrent lack of competency, not just as a parent but as a member of society, as a human being. To paraphrase the bard –

    A totalitarian by any other name is still a totalitarian.

    What if Bogan social conventions and norms force the child’s parents to feed their children booze?

    (It aint did no harm to mee, drink up! hisccupp)

    Is that a form of the totalitarian instinct surprising their fellows from being alcohol free?

  188. Tom

    Margot Kingston’s sister goes down on the Greenfilth Trojan who got a bush seat in Canberra by pretending she was a conservative and using a Green Left GetUp rent-a-crowd to run her campaign, with propaganda cavalry backup by Fauxfacts and Their ABC:

    Not everyone will agree, not everything will be solved, there will be controversial issues that divide the electorate, but people can be involved. It’s not revolutionary, she says, ”it’s what good politics is about”.

    McGowan has been called a ”conservative independent”, and she bristles at the label. She’s pro small business, pro agricultural development, wants better broadband and public transport.

    ”I don’t understand in current politics what being conservative means. When I look at Labor and Liberal, they both battle for the middle of the road.

    ”What I do know is that the people of Indi want really good infrastructure and they’re not concerned about those tags.”

    What will the voters of Indi say when they figure out they threw out a government minister for a Green-voting “independent” with zero influence?

  189. Thanks Pete m – I’ve cycled the cable modem several times, but it doesn’t come back for very long. Now at work so will have another go later, this evening. In the meantime might have a chat to support.

  190. Combine Dave

    Thanks Pete m – I’ve cycled the cable modem several times, but it doesn’t come back for very long. Now at work so will have another go later, this evening. In the meantime might have a chat to support.

    You haven’t been switched over to the NBN then?

  191. duncanm

    Tom,

    don’t forget Margrot’s own tax-funded efforts via nofibs.com.au

  192. Token

    What if Bogan social conventions and norms force the child’s parents to feed their children booze?

    My father is from central Europe, where the tradition at Sunday lunch after church was to have a big meal and to let the kids enjoy some wine.

    Tell me why the people who make excuses for female genetal mutilation and child brides for “cultural reasons” see our culture as a target?

  193. Andrew

    @Clarke_Melissa: Following Downer’s comment (on Indonesia), Tony Abbott says: “You’ll never get from me gratuitous commentary about Indonesian govt and officials.”

    Bizarre comment by Abbott.

  194. boy on a bike

    According to the Tele, the 6 staff that Milne lost were 1/3 of her personal staff.

    WTF!!??

    What on earth would 18 Greens staffers do all day?

    I hope Abbott cuts her back to 3 staff. All she should need is a secretary, a media prole and someone to top up her bile duct on a daily basis.

  195. Bruce

    Election Popcorn Memorial award for the most entertaining election result goes to GetUps Simon Sheikh:

    Greens candidate Simon Sheikh has conceded defeat to the Liberal Party’s Zed Seselja in the race for the ACT’s second Senate seat. Mr Sheikh says the Animal Justice Party’s decision to preference the Liberal Party ahead of the Greens made victory incredibly difficult.

    And the cherry on top:

    The Animal Justice Party held the coveted first spot on the ACT Senate voting paper and may have benefited from donkey votes.

    Well what can I say, that the donkey vote favours the Animal Justice Party, or that the Animal Justice Party preferenced the Libs over the environmental championing Greens?

  196. On the radio this morning, ABC found another lever to use, in the shape of Dewi Fortuna Anwar. She was prompted to predict clashes between RAN and Indon navy. She has form going way back as an anti-oz stirrer.

  197. Combine Dave – you maka de joke, yes?

  198. Combine Dave

    Actually I don’t own much land. Hay fever coming from lawn and trees tortures me. Our house sits on nearly all the land save for a small piece for outside dining and sitting.

    Wise choice. I am planning to do some concreting/shed construction once I get a little bit more cash saved up. All that wasted green space to make productive! (Plus all that yard work maintaining a perfect lawn/garden really fks my allergies).

    ~ Having a large yard does have it’s advantage, for instance a future place in which to put a pool!

    You might not think it “productive”, but it has been driven by consumer choice. No one wants to live like Manhattan or Shanghai. Extra travel time is the ‘price’ people pay, and are prepared to pay, to live a suburban lifestyle.

    I would really like to live that way again (and have always enjoyed apartment living) but I’ve been overruled by my wife who considers such an environment unsuitable for raising kids. So I’ll need to wait until we retire and the kids grow up before we have an apartment again for our primary residence.

    Australia has too much land and too little people for a Shanghai style environment to arise naturally, aka without gov intervention to prevent urban sprawl.

    There’s also a significant NIMBY movement that opposing housing developments over a certain size.

    I read in Brisbane that previously the government had prevented apartment complexes from building multi storey underground carparks for their residents (talk about unproductive use of space), so it’s little wonder that my previous unit complex only allowed me the allocation of one car space, as opposed to the 3 spaces that I desired.

  199. Popular Front

    I still don’t know what they’re advertising but it brings the house down every time.

    The best ad I have ever seen was a Swedish Volvo tv ad. A nerdy looking little man picks up a huge biker after his motorcycle has broken down and as they travel the little guy tells the biker how wonderful his new Volvo is and how environmentally friendly it has been made. “I don’t care about the environment” says the surly biker. “Oh, in that case……” says the little bloke who then drops a huge fart which leaves the biker gasping for breath. The first time I saw that ad I cried with laughter.

  200. Rebel with cause

    The hell? Her boy is playing with kids with toy guns, she knows they’re toy guns and she calls the police on them?

    Yeah I’ve spent a little bit of time in the States and I’ve noticed some Americans just love calling the cops. Some Canadians are the same too. I remember once we pulled over by the side of the road about 8pm in a town near the border with Canada – we were a bit lost looking for our hotel and wanted to stretch our legs. There were a couple of us in good spirits chatting away around the car when this lady comes out the front of her place and starts yelling at us to move on or she is going to call the cops. I think she thought we were drug dealers, which was a bit surprising as it seemed like a nice neighbourhood and we were talking with Australian accents. I’ve never had anything like that happen in Australia.

    Seems a bit different here – I’d like to think that it is the Australian stigma against dobbing, but I’m doubtful. I suspect it is more that our police are a bit lazy and just won’t respond to most reports of trivial matters, whereas because Sheriffs etc are elected over there then they have an incentive to get out and respond to calls even if they are trivial. Hence if someone in Australia tells you they are calling the cops on you it is largely an idle threat (except in the case of serious crime) where in North America it is likely to be followed through on.

    Maybe some Cats more familiar with US and Australian policing could enlighten further?

  201. boy on a bike

    Stuck for inspiration for a book name for Gillard?

    Try this list of the top 100 books.

    The best title to bastardise would be:

    16. Captain Underpants And The Invasion Of The Incredibly Naughty Cafeteria Ladies From Outer Space by Dav Pilkey

  202. Armadillo

    Enjoyed CL’s analysis of the Alexander Downer statement last night. However, he might be shocked to discover that Barry Cassidy on ABC24 this morning was in total disagreement. Looks like CL gets to wear a “badge of honour” for the rest of today.

    Labor really has gone pretty soft on Indonesia in the last 6 years (except of course for the live cattle trade). And we all know who “won” that little stouch. The Indonesians have “run rings” around their Australian diplomatic counterparts.

    It appears that the Indonesian Foreign Minister released the majority of his private meeting with Julie Bishop to the media. In that context, Downer was damn right to make the comments he did. Diplomacy is well and good, but the Indonesians needed a quick sharp reminder that they are not dealing with the Liars Party and more. Push too hard and we will push back instead of run away. No harm done (although you would be forgiven for thinking otherwise watching ABC24). I have come to the conclusion that our national broadcaster (meant to promote Australia’s interests) is actually the enemy within. It’s all about laying a glove on Abbott, the national interest be damned.

    On another note, do Michael Rowland and Virginia Viteroli only work 4 days? Bugger me. All though she’s not my “cup of tea”, the ABC should have been knocking on Mel from Sunrise’s door when she got boned. They could have replaced those pair with her. At least she would have showed up 5 or 6 days a week like most commercial presenters are required to. Although, pretty sad when Mel would be an improvement on the current incumbents.

  203. The Petrol Price Scam has hit a rough patch today in Sydney. Instead of the usual lock-step oscillation from around $1.40 to $1.60/litre we had this mornign all the majors on $1.58 and the independents I say still at $1.37.

    In either case, the ACCC (which gave them a free pass last time) should be nailing this industry. There’s no resemblance to any world/singapore pricing, it just goes quickly up and slowly down through the same range every two weeks – used to be one week until they decided that we could all last a week and refill on tcheap Tchuesday. Now it’s more difficult to manage the refill cycle, which is just how they want it.

  204. Cold-Hands

    The Greenpeace “Pirates” have been remanded in custody for two months while authorities continue to investigate their incursion.:

    Greenpeace says a Russian court has ordered an Australian man and a number of other activists be detained for two months over the group’s open-sea protest near an Arctic oil platform.

    Around 30 activists, including Tasmanian Colin Russell and British-born Australian resident Alexandra Harris, have been detained since armed border guards seized their ship during protests against oil drilling by energy giant Gazprom.

    Russian investigators have sought to keep the activists kept behind bars as they investigate possible piracy charges, which can carry a sentence of up to 15 years in jail.

    Predictably there are calls for Foreign Minister Bishop to intervene.

    Greenpeace spokesman Ben Pearson says the Federal Government must step in to help have the Australian activists released.

    “We’ll be bearing witness to the fact that they’re detaining our activists and keeping the pressure on, but I stress also today what we will be doing is calling on Julie Bishop to get personally involved in this matter,” Mr Pearson said.

    “An Australian citizen is being detained in Russia for two months.

    “That’s completely unacceptable. She needs to step in today and deal with it.”

    I wonder what they expect her to do? The Rule of Law (such as it is in Russia) appears to be being applied fairly and there seems to be nothing to raise as the detainees are receiving legal advice and consular assistance.

    And despite Putin’s comments yesterday, it looks as though Piracy charges are still possible, with his comments possibly just theatre for the benefit of the foreign press.

  205. dover_beach

    NARAL ‘Pro-Choice’ America – one of the biggest killers of children on earth – sends a shout out to Pope Francis.

    Bad Catholic responds.

  206. .

    Mr. Homent #1015120, posted on September 27, 2013 at 9:05 am
    The Petrol Price Scam has hit a rough patch today in Sydney. Instead of the usual lock-step oscillation from around $1.40 to $1.60/litre we had this mornign all the majors on $1.58 and the independents I say still at $1.37.

    In either case, the ACCC (which gave them a free pass last time) should be nailing this industry. There’s no resemblance to any world/singapore pricing, it just goes quickly up and slowly down through the same range every two weeks – used to be one week until they decided that we could all last a week and refill on tcheap Tchuesday. Now it’s more difficult to manage the refill cycle, which is just how they want it.

    Please explain how you’re getting ripped off.

    This is what the industry thinks (pre carbon tax)

    http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/facts/Facts_about_Petrol_Prices_and_the_Australian_Fuel_Market.htm

    I think they strongly argue against your position.

    Most of the markup from the international price is taxation.

  207. Ronaldo

    I have come to the conclusion that our national broadcaster (meant to promote Australia’s interests) is actually the enemy within.

    That’s why, in our household, it is known as the BetrAyBC, rather than the ALPBC, as many Cats call it.

  208. entropy

    Mr Homent, when turning off the cable modem to reboot , physically disconnect the cable from the back, then reconnect it all up before turning it on again. This makes Telstra think it is a new connection, which for some reason makes things work a lot faster.

  209. entropy

    The variability I. Fuel prices is what make sit obvious there is very little collusion. A price war erupts, then after a while everyone gives up and the price returns to the undiscounted price.

    I use diesel, where the volume sold does not lead to discounts. I look at envy at regular petrol price discounts. I find that the people are complaining are usually the ones that did not fill up at the cheap price.

  210. .

    If you want anything to complain about, complain about taxes – which have driven refining offshore, suppressed exploration and extraction, made each outlet more expensive and is a massive impost of the fuel itself through excise and GST.

    If we removed the carbon tax, PRRT, MRET, excise tax, fuel would be cheaper than in the US. We’d also be able to export more oil and even refined fuel.

    It is a damn shame Golden Fleece/H.C. Sliegh decided not to refine themselves, it could have bolstered the local industry.

  211. Token

    Bolta picks up the article we were discussing from the AFR yesterday:

    Most alarming is not that the Grand Mufti of Australia wrote this but that Labor officials leaked it, presumably to stop Paul Howes from running for a Sydney seat with a big Muslim minority

    Think on this Bob Carr was given a free hand by Gillard to direct Australia’s foreign policy.

    Consider the articles from Greg Sheridan noting how support for the Arab world distorted Australia’s UN voting, diplomatic and AusAid:

    Then there are the millions of dollars Australian taxpayers have generously stumped up for the Palestinian Union of Agricultural Works Committees. A number of the board members and office-holders of this group are intimately associated with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, one of the key progenitors of terrorism against Western targets, pioneering especially attacks on passenger aeroplanes. An obvious place for the rewards of the sweat of boilermakers in Wollongong to end up.

    How conserning is it that the need to win a few seats in Western Sydney and Northern Melbourne is really peverting the direction our foreign policy is taking?

  212. Tom

    Dot, the oil industry oligopoly achieves its ~50% operating margin (the same as Australia’s big four banks) through illegal price fixing, which competition regulators have never been able to make stick because there is no paper trail; the lawyers saw them coming years ago. Those margins are just not available to companies in competitive markets; the best they can hope for is ~30%. For most listed companies, it is 10% or less.

    The fact that the Australian government price-gouges motorists to the tune of around 50 cents/litre in tax is only half the story.

  213. C.L.

    Hawke’s joke – as told with Bondy and Bertrand – was an absolute classic.

    Lucky it wasn’t told by Howard or Abbott, though, or we’d be in a RACIST RACISM row already.

  214. Token

    Rowan Callick’s article yesterday confirms what we have been noting her about Indonesia’s posturing:

    Discipline vital to nurturing ties with Indonesia

    The policy includes buying fishing boats that are likely to be sold to people-smugglers, and helping fund intelligence gathering. Natalegawa, a highly polished performer who may well keep his position under any new president next year, wasn’t speaking in a vacuum.

    He was speaking in an especially combative and nationalistic arena in Indonesia – the parliament, of which he is not a member but to which he regularly reports and whose MPs are becoming ever more strongly spoken – to grab attention as an election approaches next year for a new president and a new parliament.

    Callick highlights what the Abbott government will actually be doing – remembering how wrong the Australian establishment (and especially the Liars Party) got it backing Megawati instead of SBY 10 years ago.

    The other area where there’s some urgency in relating with Indonesia is the need to invest far more in building people-to-people links. When the relationship hinges almost wholly on the attentiveness of a handful of top leaders on both sides, it’s highly vulnerable to changes of personnel and to swings of political fortunes or to regional events.

    Lawyer Tim Lindsey, the chairman of the Australia Indonesia Institute and probably Australia’s top expert on our neighbour, was already urging 15 months ago that “we need to be investing in a post-SBY future”, and warning that “our literacy about Asia is in free fall”.

  215. C.L.

    Yeah I’ve spent a little bit of time in the States and I’ve noticed some Americans just love calling the cops. Some Canadians are the same too. I remember once we pulled over by the side of the road about 8pm in a town near the border with Canada …

    Jeremy Clarkson has said that when in America he feels like he’s in a full-fledged police state.

    That’s not an exaggerated description of the US.

    Their fetish for badges and uniforms and SWAT teams and da G-Man is utterly revolting.

  216. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    So – yes, I actually did know about Oliver Goldsmith and the Eliza-Doolittle-in-Reverse that is ‘She Stoops to Conquer’. ( He’s Irish, you know.) Thought there might have been more to it than that, Abu.

    Back up thread also: Helen, I read the piece from the Pussy girl detained in one of Putin’s Gulags.
    Some things never change in Russia. Even if there is any question as to the reliability of her account (which they of course will say), it is pretty clear that a nasty Russian penal bureaucracy is still just that; very nasty indeed. In all human charity, we do need to keep an eye on what happens to the Greenfilth in that system. They should get what they deserve, but within civilised limits, or we are just as bad as the end result of their communist-tinted ideology: a Russian Gulag.

  217. C.L.

    Chris Bowen is calling for Abbott to “address” Downer’s tune-up of Indonesia.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-27/bowen/4984014

    LOL.

  218. boy on a bike

    Regarding VSU:

    The 2010 Annual Report from the Sydney Uni Union.

    14 “key management personnel” positions were paid $1.174 million in wages and super. Average package of $84,000.

    Big incentive to keep the gravy train rolling.

  219. .

    For most listed companies, it is 10% or less.

    Err Tom CTX is a listed company. If there is no proof of price fixing, there isn’t any. Profitability isn’t necessarily one.

  220. C.L.

    Abbott bans visit by Malaysian democracy activist.

    On the face of it, a disgrace.

  221. Leo G

    I use diesel, where the volume sold does not lead to discounts. I look at envy at regular petrol price discounts.
    But how real are those discounts? Much of the retail price variation in petrol can be explained by the variation that is permitted in its composition. Moreover the price variability distracts attention from variations in the volume accuracy of fuel delivered by pumps.

  222. Popular Front

    Malaysian democracy activist

    Read: Malaysian shitstirrer.

  223. C.L.

    When did Australia start banning shitstirrers?

  224. Popular Front

    Some things never change in Russia

    Did you know that in ‘Dark Ages’ Russia, on the death of a king the entire royal court would be impaled?

  225. Popular Front

    Don’t know C.L. but they’ve banned this one. Wasn’t that Nazi-lover David Irving banned a while back?

  226. Louis Hissink

    I’ve just finished reading Diana West’s just released book “American Betrayal: The secret assault on our Nation’s Character”, Kindle etc.

    She points to the eerie parallels between Islam and Communism – and why the West has intellectually shot itself in the foot with it’s PC mindset.

    It’s 400 pages, so not an easy read but it’s mandatory reading to understand what’s driving Islam and why the left are so enamoured with this totalitarian religious system.

    Both Communism, National Socialism and Islam share common threads. According to Russell Conquest

    “Bolshevismcombines the characteristics of the French Revolution with those of the rise of Islam….Marx has taught that Communism is fatally predestined to come about; this produces a state of mind not unlike that of the early successors of Mahommet…Among religions, Bolshevism is to be reckoned with Mohammedanism rather than with Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Mohemmedanism and Bolshevism and practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to with the empire of this world”.

    And some say Islam means “peace” – no, it means “submission”.

    Both Communism and Islam have one goal in mind – controlling the world.

    Our problem in the West is that, as Geert Wilders writes, ” the apparent inability of the West to see the danger…Our inability leads us to reject the logical and historical conclusions to be drawn from the facts, though we could and should know better”.

    Orwell reckoned that neutral facts stopped in 1936, the start of the Spanish Civil War, to be replaced with facts are interpreted politically; this mode of thinking has resulted in not only the Islamic problem, but also the inanity behind Climate Change beliefs.

    A must read.

    (I’m travelling by road so no comments from me for at least 10 days).

  227. Popular Front

    Their fetish for badges and uniforms and SWAT teams and da G-Man

    It is a self-perpetuating dilemma thanks to the Second Amendment. Too many guns and too many nutters therefore plenty of law enforcement.

  228. brc

    Maybe some Cats more familiar with US and Australian policing could enlighten further?

    US policing s definitely more serious. There was an incident at a florida hotel….a group of us had been removed from the hotel bar at closing, so we took the remaining drinks out by the pool. After a while, some people thought it might be fun to jump in. The ensuing noise brought security out, who warned us to shut up or else. This was complied with for maybe five minutes, before security came back with the last warning. That too was oly heeded for a couple of minutes and they came back with an ‘everyone out, go to your rooms’ order. Most complied but one person decided he wasn’t going to be ordered around by a rentacop, so he refused to get out and started mouthing off. The securtiy people said ‘get out or we will call the cops’. And sure enough, that is exactly what they did. The cops came, got the guy out of the pool and locked him up for the night.

    I have also been at parties in the us where the cops are called. In australia they would tell you to keep it down but in the US the cops stand at the door until everybody goes home.

    In short, if you’re doing the right thing in Austrlaia, the cops are generally ok to deal with. In the US, the cops are much more jumpy and always incredibly serious.

  229. .

    When people whinge about cops, it is time that you realise that lawyers are awesome.

    You only have one friend when you are arrested.

    Save for the fact that those who write most of the oppressive crap cops enforce are or were at one stage, lawyers.

  230. Rebel with cause

    Jeremy Clarkson has said that when in America he feels like he’s in a full-fledged police state.

    Yes I could empathise with this – a lot of law enforcement types over there go out of their way to intimidate the populace and they have the weaponry and the authority to do so. I never went to the US prior to 9/11 so I don’t know how much this changed things, but imo they could stand to wind back a bit on the aggressiveness of law enforcement.

    Don’t get me wrong, there are many things I love about America and the people, but there is a lot of things I wouldn’t want to emulate here

  231. Tom

    Idiot savant Clive Hamilton can’t stand the fact that fascist progressives like him have lost the argument over CAGW:

    While the IPCC must continue to tell those who are listening what the science is saying, it ought to be obvious to any careful observer that the debate over climate change is not about the science.

    Of course the deniers, who are out in force attempting to spike the IPCC report before it appears, must pretend that it is about the science, because to admit that they are on an ideological crusade would undermine their own position. Yet it is the weapon they hide that is most powerful.

    …Right-wing demagogues like Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones have taken up the denialist cause as a means of prosecuting their war against progressive trends in Australian society.

    If the evidence-free CAGW hypothesis wasn’t junk science, the argument would have been won long ago, you bald idiot.

    RTWT

  232. .

    Clive Hamilton? What the science is saying?

    He is an “ethics professor” who stood in front of a baby grand piano and told people the reason why they are unhappy is because they were trying to financialy better themselves.

    He is a poisonous person – both personality and ideas.

  233. Steve of Glasshouse

    The MSM is giving the Sun King a tongue bath over the chem weapons in Syria.

  234. Leo G

    Some things never change in Russia … Did you know that in ‘Dark Ages’ Russia, on the death of a king the entire royal court would be impaled?

    Herodotus claimed that, following the funeral of a chief, the Scythians killed fifty servants and their horses, stuffed them with chaff, impaled the the servants on the horses and staked them around the chief’s burial mound.

  235. Lysander

    In short, if you’re doing the right thing in Austrlaia, the cops are generally ok to deal with. In the US, the cops are much more jumpy and always incredibly serious.

    Ask yourself if you live in an Electronic Police State and how much you like your liberty?

  236. Tapdog

    Tim Mathieson.

    What’s the up to date news? Still the caravan on the outskirts of Mansfield? If so, was he the dropper or the droppee?

  237. My original point was the apparent unison with which they go through the two-weekly sham of up overnight them down over about a week, hold the low for two or three days. Then back up overnight, etc. That looks a lot like price fixing to me. It only fails very rarely, and today was one of those days.

  238. incoherent rambler

    it ought to be obvious to any careful observer that the debate over climate change is not about the science

    I have to agree with Clive on this.

    If it was about the science “activists” masquerading as scientists would not be involved.

  239. According to the Tele, the 6 staff that Milne lost were 1/3 of her personal staff.
    WTF!!??
    What on earth would 18 Greens staffers do all day?
    I hope Abbott cuts her back to 3 staff. All she should need is a secretary, a media prole and someone to top up her bile duct on a daily basis.

    President Abraham Lincoln had “two able young men” to help him around the office, with tasks such as “opening and responding to mail”.
    Apparently a staff of that size was one helluva blowout of the office budget (at the time) and was a matter for much discussion.

  240. Armadillo

    Hey Pop, with your gun licence is their any conditions attached in relation to “transportation” of firearms? Was driving up Hillvue Road last Friday (for others, it’s a busy suburban arterial road) and there’s this young bloke (19 or 20) wearing fluro work gear walking fairly quickly and carrying a rifle over his shoulder.

    Sure he was probably just going shooting for the weekend, however, WTF? I mean, I used to go shooting when I was younger but if ever you had to say carry a gun to your vehicle, you would at least wrap it in a towel (if you didn’t have a gun case). Why cause perhaps some considerable consternation amongst neighbours or people simply driving past. Common sense you would think?

  241. Cold-Hands

    If so, was he the dropper or the droppee?

    Given that TLS seems to have moved her former housemate into her new digs, it seems likely that Tim became surplus to requirements.

  242. Lysander

    President Abraham Lincoln had “two able young men” to help him around the office, with tasks such as “opening and responding to mail”.

    And some black fellas (who didn’t count as “able men”) doin the rest. Lincoln was a shit.

  243. dover_beach

    Why conservatives like Ted Cruz matter and why they must be vigorously defended:

    After speaking for 21 hours and 19 minutes, Cruz simply took his seat in the Senate chamber at noon on Wednesday. It was the predetermined time for the body to adjourn. He began speaking at 2:41 p.m. on Tuesday. The freshman senator was applauded for his effort by several Senate and House colleagues.

    Cruz then joined senators in a 100-0 vote officially sending to the Senate floor the legislation passed last week by the House of Representatives that would temporarily finance the federal government through mid-December, while stripping funds for Obamacare.

    He warned Limbaugh of the significance of a vote this week to end debate on the House’s continuing resolution.

    Senate Republicans should rally against that vote — called “cloture” — because it would allow Majority Leader Harry Reid to propose an amendment that would remove the bill that defunds Obamacare from the legislation.

    Democrats control the Senate, 52 seats to 46. The Senate has two independents who caucus with the Democrats.

    “It takes 60 votes to grant cloture,” Cruz told Limbaugh. “The reason it matters is if Harry Reid gets 60 votes to cut off debate, he will then file one amendment — he said only one amendment — that guts the House continuing resolution, and that fully funds Obamacare.

    “Any Republican who votes for cloture, who votes with Harry Reid, who votes with the Democrats to cut off debate and give Harry Reid the ability to fund Obamacare fully on a 51-vote partisan vote of only Democrats, is voting to fund Obamacare,” he said.

    “A number of Republicans are going to maintain that ‘no, no, no, no, no, no,’ their vote to cut off debate is in support of the House bill,” the senator added. “That’s simply not the case. It’s a show vote.

    “If Harry Reid gets 60 votes, every Republican then will vote against his amendment to fund Obamacare.

    “And so all 46 Republicans want to go home to their districts and say, ‘Gosh, I voted to defund Obamacare — and marvel of marvels, we lost,’ which, to be honest, is the outcome that I think more than a few of them affirmatively desire,” Cruz said.

  244. The graph at this page shows a lot more ups in the retail price than either the wholesale price or the singapore price justifies. Pretty much as I observe locally.

  245. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Their fetish for badges and uniforms

    Flew though Los Angeles post 9/11. The courts were clogged with so many lawsuits alleging discrimination, that unless you had either a U.S. or Canadian passport, you got comphrehensively monstered by some sawn off little gerbill with more flashes and badges then a Major General in the Mexican Army. “Stand there. Take your shoes off. Take your belt off. Move slowly.’

    “F.M.D. – if this is the way, you guys treat your allies in the war on terror, I’d hate to see the way you treat your enemies.”

    “Nothin to do with me. Just doin my job.” When he went on barking orders and questions, I gave him my name, rank, service number, and date of birth, and demanded to see his supervisor (Ex – U.S. Marine – worked with Aussies, and we got on a lot better.) Mrs Two Alpha, being similarly humiliated in the adjoining cubicle, was waiting for me to punch the little jerk.

  246. .

    It would be fantastic if the GOP Senators just filibustered save for keeping essential fucntions going and gutting big government until mid terms.

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