They will wreck it if they can

How many different ways does the Labor/Green Alliance work to undermine this country. There cannot be two principles to rub together in refusing temporary protection visas. What is the fundamental reason for this, other than a desire to see more boats arrive? This, however, is what they say:

Australian Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young told the chamber the government’s cruelty should not harm the hearts of people who have suffered so much already.

‘No longer will these refugees have to live in limbo,’ she said.

‘These visas never worked as a deterrent, they only punished the most vulnerable.’ . . .

Labor frontbencher Kim Carr told the chamber Labor supported the motion because the visas could result in further tragedies.

‘TPVs act as a magnate for women and children… such is the desperation of people seeking to be reunited with their loved ones,’ Senator Carr said, explaining that the visas remove scope for family reunions.

But on the other hand, this is from the Government:

The outcome was slammed by Immigration Minister Scott Morrison who vows to press on with the coalition’s commitments to fight people smuggling.

‘The vote to abolish TPVs (temporary protection visas) is a vote to deliver on the promise of people smugglers to more than 33,000 people who turned up illegally on boats,’ Mr Morrison said in a statement issued late on Monday.

He added that the backlog of asylum seekers waiting to be issued with visas under Labor’s system will not be settled by the coalition.

‘We will be keeping our promise to deny permanent residence to those who arrived illegally by boat, whether they turned up three months ago or three years ago.’

The worst government in our history has now become the worse opposition in our history.

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56 Responses to They will wreck it if they can

  1. C.L.

    So Labor has voted to kill people again.

    Is anyone surprised?

  2. H B Bear

    The Liberals should hammer Peanut Head over this like a man trying to open a Brazil nut on Christmas Day.

    All the way to the 2016 election. Each day. Every day.

  3. 2016

    2014 DD looking more likely. I wonder how much qualifying legislation they can line up for a joint sitting…

  4. egg_

    Milne on Lateline last night claiming Abbott didn’t have the courage for a DD.

  5. A Lurker

    Could this be a DD trigger – or will Abbott simply mark time until the next Senate is sworn in, and is the next Senate likely to pass this particular legislation through?

  6. Andrew

    I thought the Lemonsucker didn’t like personal commentary about PMs? Or did that only apply to female ones?

  7. Andrew

    Reading Morrison666′s comment – FMD, this is retrospective not just to the 7 a day we have now but the 33,000 are to get rewarded?? They must have asked Shorten during SHY’s speech and he said “I haven’t heard what he said, but my view is what she said.”

  8. Milne on Lateline last night claiming Abbott didn’t have the courage for a DD.

    Making that assumption is a big mistake. My prediction – if these bills (Carbon Tax, TPV, etc) start to pile up as DD triggers, he will go to the DD election once they are all lined up, and go in big target mode.

  9. egg_

    Making that assumption is a big mistake.

    No assumptions.
    Stating the ‘enemies’ position (wishful thinking?).

  10. They’re going to get slaughtered in a DD election, the fucking idiots. This is one of the things (in general behavioural terms) that led the Australian Democrats to their doom, and it’s going to obliterate the Greens.

  11. mareeS

    Yes, the DD triggers are lining up, but on border protection the Govt only needs to halt processing, no need for TPVs, just shut the system down and go on holidays. The message will get through. No need for Sarah Helter-Skelter to be prancing about.

  12. H B Bear

    I suspect Abbott will just let the DD Bills keep mounting up. It will come in very handy when dealing with the Palmer Pups who can see their six year, $250,000pa+ terms coming to a very abrupt end.

  13. Ant

    As I love to say: The Left kills.

    It’s what they do and they seem to excel at proving the point.

    The Greens/Labor opposition to TPV has nothing to do with “compassion” or “humanity”. Now it’s all about saving face.

    If they were to suddenly agree to TPVs, they would alienate the vast majority of losers and numbskulls who form their support base, and have the rest of us wondering what the hell the preceding 6 years was all about.

    Oh, and the ABC would be cross.

    To hell if more asylum sneakers end up bloated corpses floating on the ocean. The Labor/Greens can’t be seen to look foolish.

  14. Mr Rusty

    How come we’ve gone from 50,000 to 33,000?

    Please don’t tell me we processed 17,000 of these crooks, gave them PR and they are now living off Joe Taxpayer or I will fucking explode.

  15. Cold-Hands

    The Government would be foolish to deny themselves the option of a DD; not only is the threat of a DD useful to keep the incoming micro-party senators in line, but the second presentation of each bill to each House gives them more opportunities to tar the ALP and the Greens with the consequences of their failed policies.

    Looking at how the new Opposition is behaving in this Parliament, it is obvious that they have misread the lesson of the last Parliament and have fallen for their own propaganda. The Abbott Opposition did not oppose everything put before it but the ALP is acting as if their claims of negativity and the “Noalition” were true, and seek to emulate their own strawman. The Coalition won government through Rudd/Gillard/Rudd’s incompetence, not through their parliamentary tactics. It is difficult to see how Labor expect to pick up votes by clinging to the policies that were so soundly rejected by the electorate.

  16. Noddy

    egg_
    #1095758, posted on December 3, 2013 at 10:33 am
    Milne on Lateline last night claiming Abbott didn’t have the courage for a DD.
    A Lurker
    #1095769, posted on December 3, 2013 at 10:37 am
    Could this be a DD trigger – or will Abbott simply mark time until the next Senate is sworn in, and is the next Senate likely to pass this particular legislation through?

    Before you start making predictions read section 57 of the Constitution.
    Abbott just needs to bide his time until the new Senate is in session and make his play then.
    A DD cannot happen overnight regardless of the reasons.
    Meanwhile stop processing illegal immigrants… make them wait or send them back!

  17. rickw

    A few weeks ago I flew from Port Moresby to Singapore with 15 Iranian 20-30′s who were being sent back.

    “should not harm the hearts of people who have suffered so much already”

    Bullshit – they hadn’t suffered one bit in their lives, they were being “sent back” yet they managed to have as much fun and drink as much beer as your average footy club trip to Bali.

    COUNTRY SHOPPING on the stupid Green / Labor account.

  18. Gab

    No, no. Labor and Greens have got it right. Sure the majority of voting Australians gave a mandate to the Abbott government to stop the illegal boats and put an end to Labor’s people-smuggling model, but Labor and the Greens also heard the voice of many who said ‘yeah, sure, stop the boats but please don’t introduce TPVs”.

    :roll:

  19. egg_

    Noddy
    #1095836, posted on December 3, 2013 at 11:21 am

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-02/milne-abbott-carbon-tax-double-dissolution/5065684

    Lateline clip may have been file footage.

  20. Mr Rusty

    @ rickw #1095838

    Any chance you could sneak some video next time and post it?
    Should silence the compassionistas and Fatuous-Young for a while.

  21. Michel Lasouris

    Sarah Two-Dads is a fucking disgrace. How dare she defy the overwhelming wishes of the electorate I’m totally over this unrepresentative swill ( Keating’s only contribution to public life) ..in fact, I’m jack of democracy which is after all a creature of the 16th Century and so past it’s use-by date.
    How about a benign autocracy with a council of really competent practitioners instead of incompetent lawyers and trade unionists? Oh, and no “house of review”. Surely to god we don’t need a so-called representatives to fly about the country? Why have we got high speed broadband? Think of Madam Speaker with her hand hovering over the mute button, ready to pounce at a hint of an interruption. Then there’d be “order in the house”!
    Despite aversion therapy I still find it hard to listen or look at Sarah Hanson –Young ( seriously, who uses hyphenated surnames these day ? Perhaps she has delusions of aristocracy) and I remain convinced that she has a couple too many chromosomes.

  22. james

    Abbott does not have the balls for a DD.

    I thought otherwise before the election, but he has bottled it on so many fronts now, I can’t help but see him as a cross between Howard [greatly overrated] and Fraser [who could not possibly be rated low enough].

  23. Token

    Sarah Two-Dads is a f**ing disgrace.

    Does anyone know where Malcolm Fraser lives? He deserves to be kneed in the nads for his job in getting her re-elected. Ever better, set up a post a picture of her in “Tragedies Happen” mode outside his front door to remind him of the hell he thrust upon us.

  24. thefrollickingmole

    The maths of TPV’s is simple.

    Heres without TPV’s
    $10,000 buys you one boat trip to Oz.
    Kids and wife are stashed somewhere safe, family reunion is applied for, cost to the “refugee” all up $10,000 for a family of 2-3-4-5-6??

    With TPV’s: Cost is $10,000 per head, so a family of 4 would cost somewhere around $40,000.

    Prices matter.
    What Pants down young doesnt realize is if the male drowns (which she seem strangely uncaring about) the woman and children are in a much much worse condition.

    rickw
    Ex detention officer here, keep a diary and write a bit every day..

    Oh and do you have any Palestinians there? Are they still the worst group in the world??

  25. Token

    Abbott does not have the balls for a DD.

    Not so sure about that. We are seeing a tactical play here like Abbott did when in opposition to keep the Carbon Tax on the agenda.

    TONY Abbott has warned parliament could sit until Christmas if Labor failed to respect the government’s mandate on key issues including the repeal of the carbon tax and the reinstatement of temporary protection visas.

    If you are going to go DD, you need the electorate to see that the relentless negativity of an opposition refusing to respect a mandate forced the government into it.

  26. blogstrop

    And who in the media has been carefully explaining the TPV and its effectiveness to the Australian general public over the past six years?
    (crickets)

  27. MemoryVault

    Can we please stop with all the DD prediction nonsense?

    Read Noddy’s comment above, then go read Section 57 of the Constitution.
    Even if all the so-called “triggers” were in all place by December 9 (unlikely) – the last day of sitting for both Houses this year – the earliest we would have a result from a DD election would be around the middle of May next year.

    Does anybody really believe Abbott’s going to blow $200 million+ on a DD election in the middle of the footy season with all the inherent risks of more splinter groups in the Senate, to get the Carbon Tax repealed and TPV’s reinstated six weeks earlier than if he simply waits for the next Senate to sit?

  28. candy

    Tony Abbott can ask for extra sittings apparently? He’s putting pressure on.

  29. Fisky

    Labor still the party of ‘government change denial’.

  30. Driftforge

    Does anybody really believe Abbott’s going to blow $200 million+ on a DD election in the middle of the footy season with all the inherent risks of more splinter groups in the Senate, to get the Carbon Tax repealed and TPV’s reinstated six weeks earlier than if he simply waits for the next Senate to sit?

    I expect he will line up the legislation for the new senate. Then, if the legislation doesn’t pass, he will call the DD.

    But.. depends on what happens between now and then. There is also a strong case either way for bringing forward his second election so he can secure a solid mandate for change. He will want the audit completed, and to have laid out a set of changes to follow from that. He will also want a couple of clear runs on the board, or Labor to have openly frustrated those changes. If the stars align politically, having DD triggers lined up is a good place to be.

    I suspect some of this will also depend on the outcome of the WA senate re-election.

  31. blogstrop

    This vote in the Senate demonstrates clearly that the allocations of seats to the states regardless of population and the way the Senators are elected is faulty, anachronistic, and should be adjusted to better reflect the wishes of the Australian people.

  32. MemoryVault

    should be adjusted to better reflect the wishes of the Australian people.

    The House of Representatives exists to represent the Australian people.
    The Senate exists to represent the Australian States.

    If there is a fault in the system it is in counting Tasmania as a state, when in reality it should just be a couple of southern electorates of Victoria.

    Either that, or a national park.

  33. Driftforge

    If there is a fault in the system it is in counting Tasmania as a state

    No, the fault is actually the other way. It is that the remainder of the states are too large and too dominated by their capital city to provide effective regional representation.

    A state is our smallest unit of legislative capacity. Where permanent geopolitical boundaries exist, so should state boundaries. Every state could be improved by creating a new state out of it’s capital city and suburban surrounds; by allowing the rest of the state to write its own rules.

    Even Tasmania.

  34. John Comnenus

    The Left, like rust, never sleeps. It just continues slowly corroding the foundations of our society by any and every means possible.

  35. stackja

    ALP continues its crusade. The 30 percent will be happy. Will any of the other 70 percent of voters ever be gullible to vote ALP again?

  36. MemoryVault

    Actually Driftforge, the part about Tasmania, I was trying to make a joke.
    Without success, it would seem.

    As to the meat of your comment, I agree entirely.
    If we had fifteen or more states, and rather than electing separate Senators to go to Canberra, each state sent a delegation of ten drawn from their own State Parliament, reflecting as nearly as possible the political make-up of that parliament, we might have something approaching a workable solution to the state-federal conundrum.

    State-based politicians, seeking re-election in state elections, might not be so predisposed to the seemingly endless transfer of state’s powers to the Commonwealth as exists now.

  37. Paridell

    A magnate? Like Rupert Murdoch?

  38. Riverina Matt

    No, the fault is actually the other way. It is that the remainder of the states are too large and too dominated by their capital city to provide effective regional representation

    Don’t want to get too off-topic but this is absolutely true. State rights in Australia is in effect the rights of five capital cities to dominate the political agenda.

  39. Driftforge

    If we had fifteen or more states, and rather than electing separate Senators to go to Canberra, each state sent a delegation of ten drawn from their own State Parliament, reflecting as nearly as possible the political make-up of that parliament, we might have something approaching a workable solution to the state-federal conundrum.

    Quite so. Another similar option is to have senators serve at the pleasure of the upper house of their state.

  40. Fibro

    Only logical course of action is a Double disolution, and Abbott to grow a pair and go on the attack.

  41. manalive

    Sophie Mirabella running the ABC, that certainly would put a bat up their collective night-dress.

  42. cohenite

    The Left, like rust, never sleeps. It just continues slowly corroding the foundations of our society by any and every means possible.

    That’s elegant, too elegant for the left who deserve to be compared with germs, viruses, infections and the like; or simply traitors.

  43. HK_Brother

    The Left get more stupid as the days go by. These people really are sociopathic as we see their ideology and agendas show us they don’t care of the Australian people.

    …And senator Sarah Hanson-Young is only there because she did preference deals with Clive Palmer’s party. (That’s right folks! When push comes to shove, Green party values mean nothing when political power is at stake).

    …Moral hypocrisy.

  44. Gab

    …Moral hypocrisy.

    From both Hansen-Dumb and Professor Palmer.

  45. John Comnenus

    Now if only Abbott and the LNP would take to the rust with the WD 40 and steel brush!

  46. rickw

    Mr Rusty,

    I should have taken a video, I do have the name of one of the guys and he asked me to look him up on facebook, I’ll see if I can atleast do that so people can see what a “terrible” life they have.

    The Iranians were decent enough, but at the end of they day they are simply taking the piss out of Australia, they’re trying it on. I asked them specifically if they would get in any trouble when they got back to Iran, they said “no, no problem, no trouble at all”, they were very firm on that.

    At the start of the year I spent two weeks in Tehran, the only thing wrong with Tehran / Iran from the point of view of living there is the lack of beer, wine and spirits. The place is civilised, the mountains form a spectacular backdrop to the city and the barbeque restaurants are fantastic. My favourite restaurant there is SPU, great food and a very nice setting.

  47. Makka

    The Left are not only stupid , brainless or dickheads. They are well organised, cunning, committed and relentless. Most Australians don’t have a clue abot the guise or intentions of the rancid Left. Their strategy is infiltration of all our institutions and organs of state, so that when a Leftist Govt arrives, all the troops are in place to carry out the “good work”.

    This is how they act as and it is with the motives of a fifth column. They are traitors- they betray our kids futures, they betray our economic health and well being, they undermine our National Security, they undermine our National prosperity. The Left are fking traitors. Which is why they should be given no quarter- the Left show no mercy in their relentless efforts to betray the country , it’s principles, conventions and way of life. They must be treated with the contempt they deserve.

  48. Makka

    I see the security check is still there??

  49. struth

    I have often wondered why we allow communist or socialist parties in Australia. Some would say it’s a free country so we must . I say no we shouldn’t. These parties openly declare they are against democracy and the free market. This to me , means they are enemies of the state. Have any sort of political view you like, but once you start to fight against democracy you are the enemy.Once you declare you are against Australia’s democracy and constitution you are the enemy.

  50. Zatara

    A comparison to the American situation with their 17th Amendment is very interesting.

    Seems the progressives sold the country (or enough of it) a bill of goods regarding how to make senators back in 1913.

    Thankfully, there are now strong bipartisan efforts to rewrite or flat out revoke the Amendment. If it clears the hurdles in Washington the states will likely be falling all over themselves to ratify it. In fact, the states can call a Constitutional Congress and ace the feds out of it entirely.

  51. wazsah

    Just heard Milne on ABC radio posturing about holding the Fed Govt to account on debt and the ceiling.
    Did the Greens ever question the increase in debt under GreenLabor ?

  52. Brian of Moorabbin

    Australian Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young told the chamber the government’s cruelty should not harm the hearts of people who have suffered so much already.

    ‘No longer will these refugees have to live in limbo,’ she said.

    ‘These visas never worked as a deterrent, they only punished the most vulnerable.’ . . .

    Someone needs to remind Sarah Tragedies-Happen about what the illegal arrival numbers were during the Pacific Solution (with TPVs) and during the Rudd/Gillard years (without TPVs)…

    I know, I know… still expecting a member of The Greens to accept logic and facts that run counter to their beliefs… silly me.

  53. LABCR-TV

    The weird thing about a DD is that it should not be needed. Only the senate needs to be dissolved, because that is where the sewer blockage is. The house is fine.

    My question is, why is a DD talked about, when only a SD (senate dissolution) is needed?
    Can’t the constitution be changed to allow this to happen? Lots of money could be saved as well.

    The other point about the senate election is the lag effect, where the current senate sits until next year. If this was corrected to allow senators to take their seat immediately, as with the reps, there would be no need for a DD to begin with. Can’t the constitution be changed to allow this to happen?
    Again, lots of money could be saved as well.

    So, two easy? solutions to the current problem.

    A third solution is to get rid of the senate altogether. It is a joke. Look at its history in brief:

    The senate in England is called the house of lords! Who are they? The most wealthy and influential men of the land. So the house of commons (love the language, leaves nothing to the imagination about class) allowed the people to have their ‘democracy’ as long as it pleased the lords. Now, that’s fine and fair for England if that’s what they want, but Australia is different.

    I think it is Tasmania and Queensland that have abolished their senates. Constitutionally, there have been no problems with this system in these states that I am aware of. All other states should follow suit, followed by the feds. Again, lots of money could be saved as well. After all, your local council does not have a senate. Sure there are problems in councils, but these are mostly people or politic problems, not problems brought about by the lack of a senate.

    If you are concerned about the senate being a ‘safeguard’ for democracy, I think that is an illusion perpetrated by the fat cats and political parties who benefit most. Always follow the money.
    The ridiculous thing is, no one knows who is going to win the reps or senate at any election. The best people can do is guess, only sometimes it is plain obvious. So how does this lottery safeguard democracy? Time and again, like right now, it PREVENTS the execution of democracy. If a poll was taken now to get rid of the senate altogether it would be interesting to see the results.
    Get rid of the senate now.

  54. .

    Fuck no.

    We can only get rid of the Senate if:

    The executive is selected separately from the legislature, and, if:

    The newly unicameral legislature has proportional representation or sortition.

    Block baby, block.

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