Sochi v Schapelle – relative care factor?

Any views, Cats?

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128 Responses to Sochi v Schapelle – relative care factor?

  1. 2dogs

    Sochi’s stupidty is more entertaining.

  2. Leigh Lowe

    Sochi vs Schapelle.
    One of them only has a half-pipe, right?

  3. steve

    For me there is a difference. With Schapelle Corby, I have no interest at all, not even in a David Hicks sort of way. I hope she enjoys getting high with her sister in Bali forever.
    With Sochi, I want to be interested in a once every four years kind of way, but every time I try to watch it, people are skiing through puddles. It seems that they may as well have had the Olympics in Jamaica. It also makes me wonder about the system that awards the Olympics to countries that don’t, and were never likely to do the job. Everyone knew that a disaster was imminent from the moment they were awarded. Anyone for the Commonwealth Games in India? Or the Soccer World Cup in Qatar?

    So the end result is a large yawn on both.

  4. A Lurker

    0/0 for both.

    Haven’t switched on either. When I do get time to watch television, it’s usually just attempting to catch up with recorded shows on our Foxtel IQ.

  5. Ant

    My interest in the weed bogan is well into fat rat’s arse territory.

    Once the down hill is done, Sochi will venture there as well.

  6. oldmiseryguts

    I have no interest in Corby, nor does anyone I know. I can’t undersatnd why the media is so obsessed with her.

    Sochi – The only event I wanted to watch was the mens downhill, I missed it. However I find it strange that everytime I look at the channel they are showing womens events. I don’t get this, aside from figure skating and beach volleyball there isn’t a womens sporting event worth watching.
    Have those who choose what goes to air been captured by the feminists?

  7. GerardB

    For the first time ever the continuing saga Bogan drug smuggler in Bali and has clashed with Northern hemisphericals at play. Both are boring and short of a half-pipe. Move on.

  8. Onid

    Rich kids playing in the snow – most of whom would test positive for smoking something.
    Soon to be rich kids – who will test positive.

    No diff.

  9. Megan

    Nil all draw at Megan Mansions. The answer from the Sicilian prince would probably be What? and Who?

  10. Mike of Marion

    Wife is watching Sochi -

  11. Willmott Fribbish

    I can hardly contain my indifference

  12. Samuel J

    Sochi without doubt. Not for the sport, but to observe organised corruption, cronyism and money laundering.

  13. Beertruk

    NFI for the Bogan druggie and a mild interest in a desultory sort of way for the “Northern hemisphericals at play’ . You get to see the ‘odd crash out of contention’.

  14. Pat K

    As I usually pry when the regular olympic games come around: “Please God Make this the last.”

  15. Dan

    You can combine both concepts and get this

  16. pseudonym

    For the ancients, the Olympic games were much more than a sporting contest. They were a quasi-religious event and a celebration of their identity.

    For the individual competitor, to win at the Olympics meant a great deal. It was much more than the just reward for years of dedicated training. It meant more than the glory for a victorious struggle or of reaching heights of athletic prowess. You see, by winning, that man obtained great fame and esteem, of a kind which could not be gained in any other way. Indeed, the winner was regarded almost as if he had been momentarily possessed by the gods themselves.

    Looking at the pictures of all the pampered princesses at Sochi, I wonder how many of them understand any of that. In fact, I find it all to be a bit of a travesty, almost a mockery of what it ought to be.

    As for Schapelle, I never tire of her antics. She’s as amusing as an energetic little dog making mischief! What a laugh!

  17. PD of SEQ

    ?? v ?? ………. What are you on about JS.

  18. JMH

    Zero and zero. I have better things to do.

  19. Beef

    Fastest down the mountain to grab their snow board covers before it’s full of drugs and homosexual paraphernalia. Last one gets locked up in a gulag. I might watch that

  20. Rabz

    Not only do I not give a rodent’s backside about either, I am absolutely fed up with hearing about them.

    Enough.

  21. Des Deskperson

    Both have photogenic female Aussie ‘victims’: Schappelle Corby and Torah Bright .

    BTW, I saw Mike Willissee on TV, hanging around Camp Schappelle. WTF?? This guy peaked in the Frazer era, who can even remember him, let alone give a toss about what he’s doing now. Dragging out such a fossil can’t surely be helpful to the Corby cause.

  22. Token

    Sochi vs Schapelle.

    Has Plibersek blamed Abbott for both yet?

  23. Rabz

    Mike Willesee

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    The last time I heard of that dinosaur (over two decades ago) he was in the news for being sozzled while trying to interview someone.

    Great moments in Australian ‘journalism’.

  24. Token

    Sochi without doubt. Not for the sport, but to observe organised corruption, cronyism and money laundering.

    Don’t forget how the LGBLT community is finding ways to make regular people villians in hate crimes:

    Above is a spot by the Canadian Institute of Diversity and Inclusion, taking advantage of the close man-on-man contact in doubles luge to make a statement about Russia’s record on gay rights. The Internet loves it! Actual Olympic lugers, not so much.

    “The Olympics have always been a little gay,” the tagline goes, but shouldn’t the message be the opposite? That sports are nonsexual and open to everyone? “In sports, what we’re doing is a completely different issue than what they’re talking about,” Preston Griffall told the New York Times.

    But more than that, lugers are damned sick of hearing all the jokes about their sport.

  25. blogstrop

    Almost related: This story is running on BBC, and in other left-leaning places like Guardian, NYT, Huffpo, CNN, so probably a beat up, but with a grain of truth given the ME tendencies re poor foreigners.
    “Slave Labour Building World Cup Venues In Qatar”

  26. Robbo

    I would prefer to listen to the sounds of two cats fighting. Much more entertaining.

  27. Rabz

    Great effort, calli. I’ll pass, nonetheless.

  28. Go Tiges

    I don’t mind the ice hockey.
    Couldn’t care less about Schapelle.

  29. Robin Grey

    Sorry, I’m busy cleaning the fridge magnets

  30. Lloyd

    Watching season 1 of Rake on iView.

  31. Scott

    Tv off, radio off and scroll past any stories on line.
    Ah, the silence has been golden.

  32. Mayan

    Isn’t this like arguing over the relative values of zero and nought?

  33. Token

    Almost related: This story is running on BBC, and in other left-leaning places like Guardian, NYT, Huffpo, CNN, so probably a beat up, but with a grain of truth given the ME tendencies re poor foreigners.

    Stories like that have been doing the rounds for over a year.

    The left of course are looking the other way as money from third world crony capitalists (especially from the mid-east & Qatar) have been responsible for the huge spending on their domestic leagues.

    Names of clubs from across Europe like Chelsea, Man City, Paris St Germain, the Moscow clubs, etc are winning trophies by buying the best players using money taken from the third world.

  34. feelthebern

    The Winter Olympics should be named “the rich kids Olympics”.
    Zero interest.

  35. Frank

    Wonder if she will wind up violating her parole.

  36. C.L.

    Glad she’s free for a trivial offence. Sad she didn’t pay off the right corrupt official.

  37. Beertruk

    Robbo
    #1186499, posted on February 12, 2014 at 8:27 am
    I would prefer to listen to the sounds of two cats fighting. Much more entertaining.

    But not at 02:00 in the morning.

  38. Andrew

    I’m very pleased to see Corby out because the filthies predicted she would lose her parole as another victim of Abbott666′s konfrontasi with Indonesia. Watching leftoids proven wrongologically consistent is always enjoyable (except when they predict budget surpluses).

    Don’t think the evil commies predicted the Sochi debacle though – that’s just sad.

  39. Leigh Lowe

    I’m very pleased to see Corby out because the filthies predicted she would lose her parole as another victim of Abbott666′s konfrontasi with Indonesia. Watching leftoids proven wrongologically consistent is always enjoyable

    That is a good point.
    I await the analysis from Lara Bingle in the AFR that this signals a recovery in the Indon-Australian relationship (cough, cough).

  40. H B Bear

    The snow thing is on Ten.

    That tells you all you need to know.

  41. Viva

    Schapelle insofar as I wanted to see her out of prison. Sochi – if high ski jumps, the luge, or ice skating happen to be on as I race past with my remote.

  42. Supplice

    I feign interest in Sochi, because Mrs Supplice is an American and winter sports afficianado. I really have no idea whats going on there though. Schapelle… my true feelings would be caught up in the filter. I dislike that person, the circumstances of parole and release, and lets leave it at that.

  43. Gab

    Anybody would be forgiven for thinking Schapelle Corby was the only Australian ever convicted and imprisoned in Indonesia.

  44. Both could burn in hell and I wouldn’t be in the least bit bothered. Care factor zero here.

  45. Steve D

    And yet this thread is approaching 50 comments! :-p

  46. Cynicmonster

    Bit of a cold weather sports fan, so try to watch the Winter Olympics when possible – a lot less this year compared to previous though.

    Care factor is zero regarding Schapelle Corby. Less said the better.

  47. H B Bear

    The moral repugnance of the government taxing working men and women to give to other people playing sport is doubled for the winter Olympics. Most Australians couldn’t even name half a dozen competitions, let alone describe what they are.

  48. nic

    I love the downhill ski events

  49. caveman

    Sochi that’s the dude that tried to strangle Nigella , right?

  50. johanna

    Corby = 0 care factor.

    Sochi ditto, but Brendan O’Neill has authored a nice piece on how and why the Winter Olympics have become the Gay Olympics:

    “The thoroughness with which Sochi has been turned into a platform for a showdown between enlightened Westerners who like gays and wicked Ruskies who apparently do not, with a vast outpouring of ersatz homophilia from every Westerner with a conscience and an internet connection, confirms that the Culture Wars have gone global. ”

    and

    “Where once the West would have sought to assert its superiority to Russia in economic or ideological terms, now, like a bespectacled East Coast American liberal looking with horror upon redneck Southerners who, shudder, do not support gay marriage, it tries to get one over on Russia through the issue of lifestyle, through culture, through waging a Culture War rather than a political one.”

    Well worth a read.

  51. Baldrick

    The locals say the ‘snow’ is mostly chemically mixed and inferior quality. They recommend sticking with the ‘ice’ and avoid the ‘anti-freeze’ and be careful not to get ‘dusted’ during a ‘whiteout’.
    As for Sochi, best to ask Schapelle!

  52. Fred Lenin

    Not interested in Bogan Drug Couriers ,snow Bunnies or sporty lezos and Poofs however got a good laugh from the ” Baghdad Allah Overs bombing Accident” I kept hearing the instructor saying”"now when you reach the spot where you can Kill the most Infidels push the little red button like this wWHOoooooooshBAaaamOpen them pearly gates Mo ! Now there is a Sport Worth Financing!

  53. Squirrel

    “Andrew

    #1186547, posted on February 12, 2014 at 9:39 am

    I’m very pleased to see Corby out because the filthies predicted she would lose her parole as another victim of Abbott666′s konfrontasi with Indonesia. Watching leftoids proven wrongologically consistent is always enjoyable (except when they predict budget surpluses). ”

    Kudos for finding the silver lining in a dreary cloud. What we really need is another Steven Bradbury – that might just push Schapelle aside for a few hours, or so.

  54. James

    Let’s discuss what we don’t care about. Everyone is just so cool.

    All we need is someone to say how passé commercial TV is (wait, wait, already done), they only watch the ABC Foxtel and we’ll be set.

  55. vlad

    Nothing.
    Less than nothing.

  56. face ache

    Should be :- What? What?

  57. Robert

    Two obscenities here:

    1. That $50+billion dollars can be spent on a sporting event that very few care about: and
    2. That the media spend so much time and money on TV coverage of a convicted criminal for no other reason that she is an Australian female in a Southeast Asia prison

  58. face ache

    Beaten both times. We are a sick bunch. I’m still missing the Gillard comedy show.

  59. Leigh Lowe

    Let’s say she pulls $2 meg out of Seven for the interview (and I doubt the number is that high).
    How long before it is gone?
    Her agent will take a tidy whack (maybe 20%) and I’ll bet the remaining $1.6 meg is gone before her parole is up.

  60. Dan

    Has her mother gone to Bali to say g’day?

    Seems odd there is money in the kitty for a fancy hotel room, but mum has to punch cones on her Pat Malone back in oz.

  61. Lysander

    Schlapelle is on ice as well?

  62. Pete of perth

    HG & Roy is the closest I get to Sochi.

  63. rebelwithcause

    When viewed as an expose of the corruption of both modern Russia and the Olympic movement, Sochi is quite entertaining.

    $30 billion embezzled, 25 workers killed in construction, and a list of white elephant stadiums and facilities as long as your arm, built with the usual communist charm and dedication to quality. Oh and it is too warm for decent snow. Sochi has about as much chance of becoming a favoured destination of the international ski-set as does our own Smiggin Holes.

  64. Grumbles

    The thing I found most interesting about Schapelle’s release was Koch’s remarks on sunrise.

    “I know Indonesia is corrupt and all that sort of stuff, but she is convicted.”

    Only a leftist could rationalize such a statement.

  65. boy on a bike

    I’m very pleased to see Corby out because the filthies predicted she would lose her parole as another victim of Abbott666′s konfrontasi with Indonesia. Watching leftoids proven wrongologically consistent is always enjoyable (except when they predict budget surpluses). ”

    So we have Abbott666 to blame for the Indos letting her out?

    Curse him – he really is the anti-Christ.

  66. Wayne

    Schapelle and her entire brood bore me stupid. Guilty, bugger off idiots.
    Sochi, not bad but not great. Roy and HG are my highlight, they still have it!

  67. boy on a bike

    PS – both are a total WOFTAM.

  68. rebelwithcause

    Also, you’ve gotta love the fact that the Olympics are being promoted as a great way to needle Russia over gay rights. Well here is another question: how can Putin and the Olympic movement justify spending $50 billion on two weeks of entertainment for rich people? I’ll bet that question never gets asked.

  69. Yon Toad

    Only one of them has an event for Mercedes.

  70. Abi

    I usually enjoy the Winter games but not this time, and as for watching the Corbys in full flight .. never !

  71. The most interesting thing about the Corby case is how many of the upper-middle class commentators at the Cat are willing to voice their hatred for ‘bogans”. A term mainly used by the left to describe working class people who betrayed them by voting for John Howard.

  72. Leo G

    Who is Schappelle?

    Sounds like a first- class legbreaker.

  73. Infidel Tiger

    You’ve got to admire the Russians blowing $50 billion on a ski resort in a sub-tropical city.

    Maybe Adelaide can tender for the next Winter Olympics.

  74. Leo G

    Maybe Adelaide can tender for the next Winter Olympics.

    I hear it’s fast going downhill.

  75. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Spot on, Yobbo. What I’ve been alluding to also. Bogans are real people, many of them smart and nice.
    Glad Schapelle is out and I hope things go well for her now. Hey girl, let Bon Scott sing, you made it out.

    Said here before I was enjoying watching the skating, of all types. Don’t mind the skiing either. Da Hairy Ape and mates watch the snowboarding (they snowboard too, and have been known to demonstrate a move from the back of the soft and down it). Apparently the snow is all manufactured and there is slush everywhere. Foolish choice, but the Olympic Committee is always completely bought, one way and another.

    Historically, the Olympics served a politico-religious function. They still do. I can enjoy them for that.

  76. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    ooops – sofa, that is, not soft. Home snowboarding. Although soft might do for snow conditions IRL.

  77. J.H.

    Schapelle can stay in Indonesia for all I care…. and I think you mean Sushi and not Sochi….:-)

    (I know, I know, only joking. I watch the winter Olympics…. Mainly for the curling. Lawn bowls on ice with brooms. I like it!…. ;-)

  78. Tator

    Adelaide, Winter Olympics, mmmmm run that past Jay Weatherill, it may actually get up. Possibly the only way we can get a new ice sports arena here as the one we have is about 20 years past use by date.
    As for the thread topic, my house is a Schapelle free zone, no one gives a rats toss bag about her as long as she doesn’t get paid or she does and loses the lot to proceeds of crime. As for the winter olympics, only watch it for the Ice Hockey as our family are big NHL fans and follow the Penguins, who have seven players in various teams, Sydney Crosby is even captain of the Canadian team and has linemate Chris Kunitz in the team with him, Geno Malkin is playing for Russia, Jussi Jokkinen and 19 year old Olli Maata are playing for Finland and Paul Martin and Brooks Orpik are playing for Team USA. Hope they all play well and stay injury free, at least there is no fighting in Olympic Hockey, one less way to hurt yourself.

  79. pattoh

    Call me cynical but I would be far more interested if the media spent a bit more time on Gillard, Wilson Roxon, Shorton & Ludwig.

    The Royal Commission recently announced may well prove to be a watershed in Australian politics & society.

    The world & particularly Australia is almost asleep at the wheel, driving on a mind-numbing cocktail of soap operas, reality TV, AGW scares & anything to avoid the cold hard light of day.

    Personally I reckon even the “Drugs in Sport” kerfuffle was a stage managed distraction by the the then government’s artful spin-doctors.

    There has not been any let up in the almost spiteful attack from the MSM since the change in government. However there are signs of change in the wind.

    Perhaps there belated interest will blossom into the kind of indulgent coverage which punctuated the Fitzgerald Inquiry all those years ago.

  80. Anne

    Who is Schappelle?

    J’appelle Schappelle!

  81. rebelwithcause

    After Sochi, the next logical place for the Winter Olympics is Dubai – even more oil money, and Dubai has already built the ski runs indoors so they don’t have to worry about how hot it is outside. And it’d be just a tremendous fillip for the UAE gay community.

  82. Baldrick

    Infidel Tiger
    #1186787, posted on February 12, 2014 at 2:51 pm
    You’ve got to admire the Russians blowing $50 billion on a ski resort in a sub-tropical city.

    … and Schappelle gets to ‘blow’ $2 million in a swank resort in a tropical city.

  83. Old School Conservative

    Leave the Corby story to the dustbins of history.
    But the games is another matter. I love watching great athletes risk broken limbs and bruised bodies as they pursue their dreams. Some of them are good looking which adds to my viewing pleasure. Some are real characters (did you see the guy with enormous red beard – he must have been auditioning for a part in Duck Dynasty!). Many of the athletic performances are stratospheric in execution and some of their stacks are dynamite.
    Riveting viewing.

  84. candy

    I especially like the ice dancing. It can be very romantic and beautiful but it’s very athletic at the same time, like a ballet, a great combination so it’s really interesting. Some of the costumes are stunning.

  85. johanna

    Ice dancing may look pretty, but what goes on behind the scenes – not so much. As Mark Steyn recounts re the corrupt stitchup of the freestyle pairs gold medal in 2007:

    “According to the head man at the International Skating Union, even if a judge leans on another judge to fix the vote, that’s not necessarily against the rules. As I understand it from old skating hands, everyone knows that ice dancing’s been corrupt for years.”

    and

    “When it was pointed out that even these technical considerations didn’t quite cover the outrageous farrago of the pairs results, the officials, privately and publicly, offered various explanations, all of which were notable for the almost insouciant lack of pretence that there was any integrity to the judging process. There were those who tried to pass it off as some sort of typing error on the memo: the mandatory ice-dancing fix had somehow erroneously got extended to the freestyle pairs. Asked to respond to rumours that the French judge, Marie Reine Le Gougne, had been pressured into voting for the Russians, the French Skating Federation said Mme Le Gougne was “emotionally fragile”. They should know. By the end of the week, when she was ejected from the judges’ panel, it emerged that they were the ones pressuring her to switch votes. Who, in turn, was pressuring the Federation was less clear, at least officially.”

    and

    “Jacques Rogge’s ISU conceded on Friday that “public opinion” – i.e., Americans – had persuaded them to award a belated gold to Salé and Pelletier, implying that once they’re on the plane back to Europe the skating establishment can resume business as usual. Maybe they can. But for now they’ve learned that, at least on US soil, the new Bush Doctrine applies not just to rogue states but to Rogge states, too.”

    Vintage Steyn, here.

    I wonder if anything has changed?

  86. rafiki

    With a qualification, I’m with Candy. If you like ballet, you will like the ice dancing. Forget about who they are (Russian Chinese, Americans or whoever you don’t want to see win), forget about corruption, don’t take any notice of the score. Just sit back and enjoy. This requires you to appeciate the link between the music and the movement, and I find the athletic acrobatics distracting. It please the crowd, but often detracts from the beauty of the performance.

  87. Balatro

    Gentlemen, please – this talk of rat’s arses. Can we have some decorum please.
    Remember the three R’s – rufous rodent’s rectum, commonly known as red rat’s ring. is the term you are searching for.

  88. samuel j

    It seems Ms Corby may not be selling her story after all. The Indonesian authorities have reminded her that she is on parole and may be re admitted to prison if she makes money out of an interview.

  89. boy on a bike

    Drugs in sport……..do they bother to test any of the snowboarders, or do they just assume they’re all stoners?

  90. Grumbles

    Riding a motorbike in Bali, got pulled over twice, first time cop asked to see my licence and passport then took them from my hand. It cost me 15$ Australian to get them back. Second time different guy tried the same tactic however i didn’t let his puny hands keep hold of said licence and passport, after 5 minutes arguing it started raining and he gave up.

    Moral of the story, the entire legal system in Indonesia is corrupt. Anyone claiming to have respect for it is probably corrupt themselves. You CANNOT be LEGALLY convicted by a corrupt system, everything the system touches is tarnished.

    This is why we have an interest in the SC story. She has maintained her innocence unlike other convicted aussies who have confessed (although under what duress I don’t know, I have no respect for any “convictions” the system produces). To claim that anyone deserves to live under a decision made by evil and corrupt people without moral values for 9 years should be offensive to any and all libertarians.

  91. Senile Old Guy

    0/0 = undefined.

  92. This is why we have an interest in the SC story. She has maintained her innocence unlike other convicted aussies who have confessed (although under what duress I don’t know, I have no respect for any “convictions” the system produces). To claim that anyone deserves to live under a decision made by evil and corrupt people without moral values for 9 years should be offensive to any and all libertarians.

    That would be a very good point, if there were any libertarians reading this site any more.

  93. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Much like caveman at 11:04 am I knew nothing of Satchi until someone here said the willie oofs have hijacked it somehow. I then worked out this is the Winter Olympics, which never were that important in years gone by.

    I like the bit where skiers go speeding down a long steep slope of snow and end up as if shot by a sniper, hiding in the loooje, falling about like a shot rabbit – all arms and legs and ski sticks and 50 miles per hour face plants, busted bones and un-medaldom, one assumes.

    Then there is the one where they go promenading about as one together around an ice skating track, arms behind there backs as the gentleman dancers in that fabulous “Who will buy these wonderful roses?” sequence from Oliver, all haughty and aloof in their full frogmen suits. It’s perfect synchronicity until the last 50 yards, when they let it all hang out but using just one arm for propulsion – odd, odd!

    The Corby Bogan Family Circus? It’s the most amusing show in town, even viewed from the cheap seats. Tim Blair had a piece on them, with photos in the links of what Sharpelle has to look forward to in a few years, in the looks and fetching manner department.

    It just keeps tossing up fabulous gems … like:

    “evil brown people, evil brown people, not like us, not like us … To claim that anyone deserves to live under a decision made by evil and corrupt people without moral values for 9 years should be offensive to any and all libertarians.”

  94. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Errr – “arms behind their backs”

  95. .

    Yobbo
    #1186772, posted on February 12, 2014 at 2:29 pm
    The most interesting thing about the Corby case is how many of the upper-middle class commentators at the Cat are willing to voice their hatred for ‘bogans”. A term mainly used by the left to describe working class people who betrayed them by voting for John Howard.

    Keep ripping son. I like the cut of your jib.

    Yesterday I had Team Xerox discussing how manly men of trading and dealing were silly boys who were gonna die like Anna Wood.

  96. Grumbles

    Mick Gold Coast QLD; It is not racism to acknowledge the system is corrupt, if you accept this, you need to also accept that all judgements are tainted. There are many nice Balinese and Indonesians for that matter, their law and judiciary systems however are corrupt.

  97. boy on a bike

    A $64.2m road built for the games leads to the “Science Centre Biosphere,” which Russian officials say will monitor climate change during the Olympics. The site consists of a ski lift, tennis court, snowmobile trail, two helicopter pads, and a 14-room alpine chalet”

    - An infographic in (of all places) Mother Jones, reporting on the immense cost of the current Sochi Winter Olympics. Research in other places informs me that this private ski resort is of course Vladimir Putin’s dacha, or more correctly one of his many dachas. Apparently he was trapped there once and had to walk out after it became impossible to get helicopters in or out during a snowstorm. As it was obviously appalling for a man such as Putin to suffer such an indignity, it became necessary to spend $64 million on a road.

  98. Abu Chowdah

    The most interesting thing about the Corby case is how many of the upper-middle class commentators at the Cat are willing to voice their hatred for ‘bogans”. A term mainly used by the left to describe working class people who betrayed them by voting for John Howard.

    Indeed. The term they should use for the Corbys is “criminal underclass”.

    Whether you feel the noble desire to step up and defend the worthy working class, or merely seek to paint yourself as in touch with the working class as an example of your routine arrogant grandstanding shtick, you have to admit that the Corbys are as loveable as dogshit on a suede shoe.

  99. Leo G

    That would be a very good point, if there were any libertarians reading this site any more.

    That wouldn’t be a good point even if we characterized a libertarian as someone who defends liberty by opposing the tyranny of evil, corrupt and immoral brown people.

  100. Pat Warnock

    re Schapelle Corby – the media should be ashamed of the endless attention it pays to this convicted criminal – but the media seems to be losing its collective judgement about what is serious news these days.

  101. Grumbles

    Leo G; The colour of their skin means nothing, I am talking about the content of the character of the Indonesian law and judiciary system. It is corrupt, we all know it is corrupt. To sit in judgement of your fellow man whilst being influenced by money and power on the outside is immoral. To profit from corruption at the cost of others lives and freedoms is evil.

    Why can’t you guys get this? Why is it always about race or skin colour. It’s not how you look, it’s how you act. We don’t accept bribing and political manipulation of the legal system here why should we “respect” it there.

    Unless your argument is that their system is sound and not corrupt, how can you respect their judgments?

  102. Grumbles

    Pat Warnock; not convicted by any respectable court.

  103. Why is it always about race or skin colour. It’s not how you look, it’s how you act. We don’t accept bribing and political manipulation

    Because race influences not just how you look, it also influences how you will tend to act.

  104. johanna

    It is ludicrous to talk about “race” in the Indonesian context (unless you just lump anyone who is not white as all being the same). Indonesia has dozens of ethnic groups. For example, people from Aceh are very different from native Javanese , and neither of them remotely resemble native Balinese. They have different languages, religions, cultures and ethnic origins.

    Disappointing to read such racist claptrap here.

  105. Leo G

    Unless your argument is that their system is sound and not corrupt, how can you respect their judgments?

    I don’t dispute that the Indonesian court judgment against Schapelle Corby was unjust. A state bestows legal rights on people and should respect all of those legal rights- that is called due process. Due process was denied to Corby.
    But you appeared to be arguing that the Indonesian people were inherently corrupt- presumably by comparison with us.

  106. It is ludicrous to talk about “race” in the Indonesian context (unless you just lump anyone who is not white as all being the same). Indonesia has dozens of ethnic groups. For example, people from Aceh are very different from native Javanese , and neither of them remotely resemble native Balinese. They have different languages, religions, cultures and ethnic origins

    And then you just did. That there are multiple races in no way precludes race from being a factor in how people tend to act. Just like race in no way precludes people having different skin colours; race doesn’t excuse actions, nor does it determine them. But, as a short hand for the genetic similarity across a group of people, it does have a significant and measurable influence.

    Pretending otherwise is in no ones best interest.

  107. Grumbles

    I argued no such thing, and clearly refer to those that handed down judgment and sentence. I’m actually pretty sure the average Indonesian detests the corrupt and oppressive system that rules them. My initial comment was about those that can rationalize the statement, “I know they are corrupt but she was convicted” ala David Koch.

    I have met many nice people in Indonesia and would never suggest they are all inherently corrupt just because of how their judiciary acts. All experiences I have had with their police have been negative however. Every time I have not been breaking the law and they have tried to extort.

  108. johanna

    As it is not the subject of this thread, I will not pursue your utterly unscientific bollocks here Driftforge. But you simply don’t know what you are talking about, if you are positing genetic determinism based on “race.”

  109. But you simply don’t know what you are talking about, if you are positing genetic determinism based on “race.”

    If you want to believe that, please don’t look at the literature, and certainly don’t look at the data. Never read Darwin, or Fisher. The concept that human genetics ‘stops at the neck’, is a relatively recent and politically useful misdirection based solely on the way progressives would like things to be, rather like Climate Change, or Keynesian economics except with added foreboding. It came about as part of the process of demonisation of the Third Reich, and through being tied to the atrocities committed there has become a thing ‘not to be mentioned’, right or wrong.

    Once you accept that people are different genetically – that men and women are different, that races that developed under different selection pressures are different – then you can actually start to address some of the challenges that those different groups face in the modern world. Yet in the face of that difference, we are all equally human, all of immense value, and all individual people. We are all individually responsible for our own actions, and what we make of the hand we are dealt. Our heritage is more than our culture, it is inherent in who we are. Denying that heritage means treating others as less than they are, just as binding them to stereotypical images of that heritage does the same.

    We are wonderfully and astonishingly diverse, and every meme in progressive thought seeks to make us the same, to throw away our own advantages and to make noticing others disadvantages a thought crime. It’s dehumanising, and it is utterly wrong.

  110. Leo G

    Moral of the story, the entire legal system in Indonesia is corrupt. Anyone claiming to have respect for it is probably corrupt themselves. You CANNOT be LEGALLY convicted by a corrupt system, everything the system touches is tarnished.

    Years ago, A drunken disqualified driver in a stolen car ran into the back of the car I was driving injuring me and writing off the car. In pursuing the fellow for compensation I found that he was an SP bookie involved in a car rebirthing racket being run by police officers at a particular Sydney police station. Those police started targeting my family and myself making it necessary for me to go into hiding while I sought political assistance.
    Moral of the story: I did not assume the entire Australian justice system was absolutely corrupt- then or now. Corruption that is inevitable in any system of government is not omnipresent.

  111. Grumbles

    Leo G, now you are getting it mate. That even with the immense respect we have for separation of powers in western society corruption still exists. Police are still considered public servants, but I can’t remember the last time I saw them serving the public, instead they serve the government of the day as enforcers of policy.

    If it happened to you 2 more times different people same result, when would you think that the corruption was wide spread? 4th time, 5th time, 20th time?

  112. johanna

    OK Driftforge, I look forward to your typology of all the “races” in Indonesia, with special reference to their attitudes to authority and likelihood to criminality.

    PS – the fact that they have intermarried all over the place shouldn’t deter a “passionate” researcher like you! The truth is out there!

  113. You can keep waiting as long as you like.

  114. johanna

    Where pseudoscience is concerned, the wait is endless.

  115. egg_

    Both have a snowball’s chance in Hell?

  116. It is ludicrous to talk about “race” in the Indonesian context (unless you just lump anyone who is not white as all being the same). Indonesia has dozens of ethnic groups. For example, people from Aceh are very different from native Javanese , and neither of them remotely resemble native Balinese. They have different languages, religions, cultures and ethnic origins.

    That would be a good point except that anyone in any position of power in Indonesia is Javanese.

  117. johanna

    True, Yobbo (although I suspect that the customs officers who initially busted Corby were Balinese). The Javanese have the numbers by a big margin, and run the joint. But they well understand that the biggest challenge they face is keeping all those diverse ethnic groups, spread over hundreds of islands, together as a nation. That means a delicate balancing act of respecting local cultures while ruthlessly squashing separatists.

    My point is that there is no such thing as an Indonesian “race”. Even the Javanese, if you look at a bunch of them, are clearly a hotchpotch of ancestries. And while some of the ethnic groups are very distinct (Balinese look much more like Thais than like Javanese) – calling them “races” is drawing a very long bow indeed.

  118. Yes, but when people talk about Indonesians they are generally talking about Javanese, not Balinese who are in fact a separate nation, ethnicity and culture, shamefully colonised by expansionist Indonesia.

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