President Pussy Kitten threatens Russia

More red lines? More empty gestures? Who is this cypher to go arounds pretending strength and resolve? From the Associated Press:

President Barack Obama is warning Russia “there will be costs” for any military maneuvers it launches in Ukraine, a move U.S. and Ukrainian officials say they believe to be already underway.

So what are these costs?

Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer for an international summit and could also cut off trade discussions with Moscow.

Or as Charles Krauthammer has said:

The Ukrainians, and I think everybody, is shocked by the weakness of Obama’s statement. I find it rather staggering.

Anyway, if the lights are going out all over Europe and the West, it will be because of our war on fossil fuels. If there’s another kind of war coming it will be because of American weakness, not because of its strength. Meanwhile, Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine appears to have begun.

This entry was posted in International. Bookmark the permalink.

195 Responses to President Pussy Kitten threatens Russia

  1. C.L.

    Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer …

    LOL.

    That’ll terrify the Pute.

  2. Infidel Tiger

    Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer …

    Oh no! Next hell threaten to have his sphincter bleached.

    America is a complete joke. Nuke them Pute. They deserve it.

  3. C.L.

    “Dumb” Sarah Palin predicted Ukraine invasion in 2008: Video.

  4. Ubique

    Obama is weighing up whether he should go as far as threatening to take Putin off his Christmas card list.

  5. WhaleHunt Fun

    The leader of the free world!
    Hilarious.
    Most syphilitic third world street walkers are less of a whore than the Kenyan Muslim.

  6. Gab

    The BIG question though – has Obama defriended Putin from his Facebook page?

  7. Ed

    I am embarrassed on America’s behalf. But Obama supporters are unfortunately not embarrassed on their own behalf. Many of the people who voted for Obama are ignorant and do not follow world affairs. And it’s not just there; even here in Australia you’ll find that Obama fans either don’t know how he has left the Ukraine to the wolves, don’t care, aren’t interested, and anyway he’s smarter than George Bush.

  8. Ed

    Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer

    He doesn’t mean it anyway. He’ll go so he can engage in ‘soft diplomacy.’

  9. nerblnob

    What exactly is “The West” offering Ukraine?

    They are not exactly asking them to join the EU . All they are doing is using them as a battering ram/buffer (take your pick according to which side you’re on) against Russia. As Russia has long done with Ukraine against “The West”.

    Let’s be honest about this.

  10. Andrew

    Maybe he can go the ultimate sanction, and call in the ambassador for a chat. 90% of our media were in the foetal position when Indonesia called in ours and again after China threw the toys out of the cot about Bishop666′s comments.

  11. JamesK

    Let’s be honest about this.

    Apropos of what?

    The ‘West’ is dominated by leftism which is why we are going down the tubes.

    The EU and US support for Ukraine has for 6 years – apart from infantile verbiage so characteristic of the Left – been zero.

    What’s your point exactly, hmmm?

  12. Nanuestalker

    So far Russia is only protecting its interests and its Black Sea Fleet. I don’t have a problem with what by all accounts, is a show of force on the Crimean peninsula.

  13. srr

    Simply, the West has gone Left, and Leftism is a mental illness.

    The Leftist Dictatorships of the EU and UN won’t settle for less than owning and controlling us, from our clinical conception to death and distribution of our organs, and in between, proscribing our thought, speech, belief and behaviour.

    Yet somehow, when it comes to the Ukraine, even Libertarians are forgetting that the West has gone Left and are automatically jumping in with the ‘Western’ LEFTIST EU Storm Troopers.

    Anyway, this covers a lot of what most Western News commentary doesn’t -
    …well it will when I go back and get the link again….grrr…

  14. srr

    I see Peter Hitchens and twostix are also thinking about what too few are even bothering to acknowledge –

    twostix
    #1209370, posted on March 2, 2014 at 2:17 am

    Peter Hitchens as usual tries to put on the brakes and ask some salient questions and point out some uncomfortable facts:

    ‘How big does a mob have to be to supplant an elected government?’

    Eventually a sort of consensus was reached that the Yanukovych government had lost legitimacy because it had opened fire on what was repeatedly described as a peaceful crowd.

    Once again I need to say here that I am not *defending* the actions of the Yanukovych state. It was corrupt, ill-governed and not very bright. The shooting of demonstrators is almost always wrong, and invariably a mistake in an open society (Though the Kazakh government, whose society is not exactly open, recently got away with it , and was subsequently blessed by a visit from Mr Cameron) . But everyone seems to have forgotten (or maybe it has been shown that this was untrue, in which case I’d welcome information) that 13 Ukrainian policemen, acting under the lawful authority of a legitimate government, were shot dead and another 130 suffered gunshot wounds, and it was only after this that the Yanukovych government authorised the use of lethal weapons by the police. Demonstrators were also seen and filmed carrying firearms. I might add that many policemen were injured in previous clashes with demonstrators, who used firebombs and clubs without much hesitation.

    It simply cannot be said, given these facts, that the demonstration was peaceful. I don’t claim that this fact resolves any issues. But surely people in public life ought to know that? I think it is a reflection on the very poor coverage of these events by British media, that nobody on the panel, or even the chairman, seemed to be aware of such an important fact.

    So. There’s a few here who pretend to be all about The Law, The Law, The Law but are suddenly very ready to accept a mob – the opposition and losing side in an election – shooting police, staging a coup and running riot because they don’t like a decision the government has made. What to make of this?

  15. srr

    Link to the whole article by Peter Hitchens on the situation in the Ukraine, and how little anyone seems to be considering, when jumping in to take the EU Supporters Side –

    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/01/are-we-wise-to-take-sides-in-ukraine.html

    WELL Worth reading!

  16. Oh come on

    Oh for chuck steak. You’re only now discovering that a democracy can yield a shitty result when a large minority are united while a marginal majority is fractured?

    50% +1 = mob. Not many people round these parts like this much.

  17. wazsah

    I love the BBC headline – “Russia approves troops for Ukraine”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world/europe/
    just an admin approval then.
    We know they have bases in the Crimea.
    If they make moves north of the Crimean neck – that will be a challenge for the west and Obama.

  18. Zatara

    srr, perhaps you and Mr Hitchins might want to review the bidding as to how all this started before wising off about the Law and making huge assumptions as to whom the protesters are. Hint, they aren’t by any means all from “the opposition” of the last election.

    This would be a good start. Particularly the timeline and some of the indepth reports of the item on it such as this one.

    “The protests started more than a week ago after President Yanukovych abruptly suspended preparations for signing an EU association agreement that would have opened borders to goods and set the stage for an easing of travel restrictions. Mr Yanukovych argued that Ukraine could not afford to sacrifice trade with Russia, which opposed the deal.”..
    “After talks between Mr Putin and Mr Yanukovych in the Kremlin, it was announced Russia would buy $15bn-worth (£9.2bn; 10.9bn euros) of Ukrainian government bonds. The cost of Russian gas supplied to Ukraine has been slashed from more than $400 (£245; 291 euros) per 1,000 cubic metres to $268.5.”

    Yeah, that has grassroots support of the people written all over it doesn’t it?

    “Mr Putin said the assistance was not “tied to any conditions”.”

    Well there you go. Sorted.

    Finally, and the ‘progressives’ will love this one, they passed an Anti-Protest Law.

    “The bill was passed in parliament on Thursday with a quick show of hands by MPs loyal to the president,

    rather than the usual system of electronic voting

    . The changes include a ban on unauthorised tents in public areas and criminal responsibility for slandering government officials.”

    Whatever it takes right?

  19. John Comnenus

    Putin has demonstrated time and again he will only risk war for one thing – to incorporate more Orthodox or aethiest Russians into Russia. That’s Putin’s only interest. It’s got nothing to do with economics. Putin is trying to stave off the Islamification of Russia. He is thinking a generation out. He doesn’t need oil or gas or any other resource apart from Russian people.

  20. John Comnenus

    War is just too important to pursue over economics. Its a pity the Marxist view that every war is about economics – the ruling class taking from the working class – is so deeply embedded into our world view. Wars are rarely fought over trade.

  21. At least the lights are on in Russia.

  22. 2dogs

    Can anyone explain why European leaders are so opposed to the partition of the Ukraine as a solution? They say Ukrainian unity is “vital”, but don’t really say why.

  23. johno

    Officials say Obama may retaliate by canceling a trip to Russia this summer for an international summit

    Do you reckon Putin would see this as an added bonus. Not having to sit through a tedious meeting with Pussy Kitten?

  24. John Comnenus

    And don’t forget that Sarah Palin warned that Seantor Obama’s response to the Russian invasion of Georgia was so weak that if Obama became President there would be a greater risk that Russia would invade the Ukraine. All the so called experts said Palin was a foreign policy nave, a provincial hockey mom who knew nothing. She was right.

  25. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    It’s got nothing to do with economics. Putin is trying to stave off the Islamification of Russia. He is thinking a generation out.

    Obviously, it’s multi-factorial, trade and trade-offs need consideration, but there is certainly a strategic territorial element to it in the Crimea and in old-fashioned sphere-of-influence terms. Additionally, John C is right to point to Putin’s views on Islam; we could also point to his views on certain elements of Western culture which he regards as degenerate. He’s an old style culturalist, building a reflexive ideal of a ‘Greater Russia’.

    Against this, Obama is weak and out of his depth. The Great American Vision is lost under his watch.

  26. Splatacrobat

    Wars are rarely fought over trade.

    They start with arguing over who sleeps on the wet patch.

  27. cynical1

    Give the Big O time, he is still working out which level of terror to use on Assad for throwing gas about.

  28. entropy

    Do we get to see the strongly worded letter?

  29. Leigh Lowe

    I heard President Gormless on the radio.
    Not only was the content insipid, it was delivered with all the fervour of an NRL player’s apology.

  30. A Lurker

    Steve, you disparage kittens with this article. Everyone knows that kitten claws can be as sharp as fishhooks. This is a better analogy.

  31. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Yes, do not disparage kittens. Many Lady Cats here are Kittehs. Way we like it.

  32. Token

    Obama is weighing up whether he should go as far as threatening to take Putin off his Christmas card list.

    We know that Putin shoved the reset button up Obama years ago, the question is when the Sun King will stop asking for it to be shoved even deeper?

    This is a repeat of the Obama clusterf@ck over Georgia before he was elected. Each & every step Putin is making is fundamentally the same.

  33. Tel

    Against this, Obama is weak and out of his depth. The Great American Vision is lost under his watch.

    I don’t think it did too well under Bush either, involvement in long and expensive and largely pointless excursions into the Middle East left America weaker by far. One of many factors, but not a small one.

  34. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I have changed my Gravitar back to Kitteh mode, just to reinforce the point.

    Obama is a pussy, not a kitty.

  35. Tel

    At least the lights are on in Russia.

    It’s gas man!

  36. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    The Great American Vision

    It’s been a long, slow decline, Tel. Obama is the tipping point though.

  37. Ha ha ha great comments really good comments where’s the ‘like’ button? etc.
    Here. I did a picture.

  38. srr

    Nice to see who doesn’t bother reading posts or links, are the same people who just have to gang up in personal abuse-fests, and worse, not care to correct those constructing a false narrative to excuse their real reason for hating.

    Just like pro-EU propaganda peddlers, screaming, “homophobe! Islamaphobe! Give the poor All The Rich Peoples Money!”, the only ‘freedom’ they’re fighting for is the ‘freedom’ from all knowledge, understanding and practice of the Christian faith.

    For God’s Sake!
    Russia isn’t Communist anymore, the UN, EU Dictated to LEFTIST-West IS!

    The West has turned it’s back on God’s Temple and is looking longingly towards the nightmarish dream of The, Communist, Anti-Christian, East.

    Russians know too bloody well how savagely bad everything went for them when they tried to ‘ban God’.
    Putin knows and admitted it to the world.

    But all the Lee Rhiannon, Brandt, Gillard, Mosley, Peter Singer, Anne Summers type, proudly ‘atheist’ Westerners, are stubbornly refusing to learn from Russia’s grave errors and hear their honest warning, and keep marching us on to the same hell on earth.

  39. Token

    Who was it who posted a few weeks back tgat Putin was no threat to anyone?

    Who claimed anyone who saw Putin as a menace was indulging in Cold War era fantasies?

    Strangely I remember mentioning the Ukraine then…

    PS: Putin feared Bush so only acted once the left in the media in the US has neutered his presidency by their misrepresentations on Katrina & Iraq.

  40. Token

    Russia isn’t Communist anymore, the UN, EU Dictated to LEFTIST-West IS!

    Srr, you are in a dialogue with people who despise the statist EU & crony statists in Russia.

    The people in the Ukraine are once again wedged between the two modern versions of leftist statism.

    The people in Poland, Hungary & the rest of former Eastern Bloc are better off in the EU than the people in the Belarus & Kazakhstan are living in client crony states of Russia.

  41. Tintarella di Luna

    Hi Lizzie

    I’ve changed my gravatar ’cause my hair-dresser’s back in town and she bought me a sword from the Middle East as a souvenir. Might come in handy given the latest challenges in the Lunarscape

  42. Except for all that hoojabbadefloobyjacka about God and Christ and whatall, srr does have a point.

  43. Tintarella di Luna

    The EU is a totalitarian toilet. I support the EU to the extent that it is dismantled forthwith and the peoples of Europe liberated. All hands to Rue de la Loi with extreme prejudice and toss out the insufferable Portugese poltroon Barroso

  44. Rudiau

    Putin Wakes Up the World.

    Pink Floyd raises the question: Will the millennials even recognize how the culture, how music, how even ABC played such a destructive role in the Cold War? America was fed a constant diet from Soviet apologists. Nena’s “war machine sprang to life” just as Pershing IIs were being deployed to West Germany. ABC scared the living hell out of children with the apocalyptic docudrama The Day After (aired in Sunday prime time no less), implying the course set by Ronald Reagan would end up with mushroom clouds sprouting up all over the nation.
    And now, everyone who understood how to confront the threat of the Soviet Union can say, “I told you so, and we knew how to handle them.” Reagan, Ed Meese, John Paul II, Caspar Weinberger, Strom Thurmond, and thousands of others who shared their moral clarity. Don’t forget, Ted Kennedy was feeding information to Soviet leaders about how to confront Ronald Reagan. Some were on the wrong side of history, some were on the right.

    During this era, Obama was on the wrong side.

    During the critical moments of the Cold War, Obama was authoring opinion pieces for a newspaper complaining about the deployment of Pershing II missiles. He must have been listening to Nena and watching ABC.

  45. Shane

    Get real people …do you seriously wanting WW111 ?

    Maybe it would be good for the fiscal bottom line ,but who would want the rest of it.

    It is a bit like Russia taking over Cuba or Mexico …would you be surprised if the US reacted negatively to protect its interests in its neighbourhood?

    Or when Georgia decided to invade a neighbouring area that looked to Russia rather than Georgia..

    This US policy of promoting ‘democracy’ has resulted in chaos around the world ,so IMO ,Obama has finally called it right ,& he can go back to,working on his golf handicap with a clear conscience.

  46. John Comnenus

    Shane the point is that if Obama were credible Putin would be a lot more cautious and the Ukraine would be safer from war. But because Obama is weak, Putin is emboldened and now Ukrainians are much closer to a war.

  47. duncanm

    Rudiau, thanks for the link.

    Amazing:

    Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for an American guarantee of security.

    and in addition (from wiki)

    In a joint statement on December 4, 2009 the presidents of the United States and Russia, Barack Obama and Dmitry Medvedev, confirmed the assurances of security to Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus given on the heels of these countries’ consent in 1994 to give up their nuclear weapons.[7]

  48. Has everyone forgotten the principle of National Self Determination? The Ukrainians suffered six million deaths by starvation after WW2. God only knows how many died under the Collectivisation of the farms. They are not going to allow Russian oversight on the Ukraine again.

  49. I am the Walrus, koo koo k'choo

    ‘Poor man!
    ‘I know he would not be a wolf but that he sees Romans are sheep.
    ‘He were no lion were not Romans hinds.’

  50. whoops: before WW2 not after….
    Links:

  51. Oh bugger it. Look up Holodomor in Wiki.

  52. Shane

    Rudiau,
    I just read this with a gapping jaw at how confused some are re timelines ,especially those who should know better whether they be of left or right.
    “..

    During the critical moments of the Cold War, Obama was authoring opinion pieces for a newspaper complaining about the deployment of Pershing II missiles. He must have been listening to Nena and watching ABC…”

    Huhh ….in my timeline & hopefully of others. ,Obama entered Harvard in mid 1988 ,& by mid 1989 he became an editor for the HLReview before becoming its president .
    Leaving aside the all of the alleged international pressure & financial shenanigans that brought “this achievement ” about,that was way after the whole Pershing deployment & consequent public campaigns.
    The Pershing 11 deployment had basically finished by 1985 , 1986 & by late 1987 ,Gorbachev & Reagan signed a treaty to begin removing them from Europe.

    Admittedly the relevant period of 1981 to 1988 is obscure (especially Obama’s time at Columbia )& full of unverifiable assertions ,but I am not aware of any publised comments on the Pershing deployment .

  53. Jim Rose

    is every misfortune of the world grounds to risk war?

    Rothbard in the 1980 Afghan invasions quoted Canon Sydney Smith – a classical liberal in early nineteenth century England who wrote his warmongering PM thus:

    “For God’s sake, do not drag me into another war!

    I am worn down, and worn out, with crusading and defending Europe, and protecting mankind; I must think a little of myself.

    I am sorry for the Spaniards – I am sorry for the Greeks – I deplore the fate of the Jews; the people of the Sandwich Islands are groaning under the most detestable tyranny; Baghdad is oppressed, I do not like the present state of the Delta; Tibet is not comfortable. Am I to fight for all these people?

    The world is bursting with sin and sorrow. Am I to be champion of the Decalogue, and to be eternally raising fleets and armies to make all men good and happy?

    We have just done saving Europe, and I am afraid the consequence will be, that we shall cut each other’s throats. No war, dear Lady Grey! – No eloquence; but apathy, selfishness, common sense, arithmetic!”

  54. Linden

    USA’s decline in its ability to influence matters on the world stage as progressed rather well under Obama. When he was elected I thought we were going to see a fabulous statesman leader, but I guess I must have also been another who got sucked in by his ability as a spruiker!

  55. Linden

    Could someone please tell me how to put one of those icons pics on this thing?

  56. Zatara

    is every misfortune of the world grounds to risk war?

    A reasonable question.

    But isn’t it interesting how it is only asked when that misfortune is being visited upon someone else?

  57. Jim Rose

    I always opposed extending NATO membership eastward because it increased the number of tripwires for war and reduced the size of the buffer zone withe Russia.

  58. Tel

    Could someone please tell me how to put one of those icons pics on this thing?

    http://en.gravatar.com/

  59. Jim Rose

    It is harder to get out of a war than into one. The problem is credible assurances that the peace is lasting rather than a chance for the other side to rebuild and come back and attack from a stronger position.

    Many wars including World War 1 were products of mutual alarm and test of will.

    Schelling and others in the 1950s and after studied World War 1 to learn how to not blunder into wars when nuclear weapons now would be used.

    Wars are like bar fights. Both are about not backing down.

  60. Arnost

    Oh bugger it. Look up Holodomor in Wiki.

    In some of the most fertile soils in the world…

  61. srr

    Is it really wise to stir up conflict between these two parts of the population, in a manoeuvre to drag Ukraine into the orbit of Brussels (which, as we well know in Britain, is not a trading bloc but a political formation) rather than of Moscow? Ukraine’s independent existence is surely a pretty big concession by Moscow in the first place, made at a moment of unique weakness and still resented. Must this now be pushed further, establishing an EU bridgehead right up against Russia’s border? Could such an arrangement last? How might it end?

    I might add that EU expansion into (for example) Romania and Bulgaria has not, as it turned out, transformed those countries into fully modern law-governed states. There is no magic wrought by the blue flag with its circle of yellow stars. Corruption, misgovernment, stupidity, do not flee at the sight of it. Ukraine linked to the EU will not suddenly become like Austria.

  62. Rudiau

    but I am not aware of any publised comments on the Pershing deployment .

    Obuma I assume. Yeah neither can I, however I’m going going to invoke Campbell Newman’s law of association.

    “Women’s Action for New Directions” which is also funded by George Soros engages in anti-nuclear activity and is against the national defense in all forms. This organization dates back to the cold war and it was greatly involved in an effort to block the deployment of Pershing II missiles in West Germany.

    Given the success of the Pershing campaign what would stop the Left (Obuma) critising it or attempting to rewrite history. Hence it makes no difference when Obuma entered college even if the author of this article is incorrect (not saying he is) in the timeline.

    Also you have not mentioned why “this achievment” was perpetrated in the first place.

  63. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Damn. Posted in wrong Fred.

    Uh-oh.

    Been looking at vid from Crimea. In case you’ve been wondering who those troops are?

    Those guys with the balaklavas? paratroops. They are from the 76th Chernihov (Pskov) Storm Troops Division. The Division is currently deployed in one other place – Chechnya. The boyos in Crimea have just been shipped in from Syria and were in Chechnya before that.

    Which means that someone is playing for all the marbles here. And Oh lookkee, senior crimean Russians are appealing for Russian help on the basis of their position in the Crimean Autonomous Region, and they are stressing the ‘Autonomous’ bit.

    And Richard Fernandez has said:
    The bad news is that Vladimir Putin is invading the Ukraine. The good news is that he got the Russian parliament — whatever you may think of it — to approve his actions. The procedural difference is telling. Putin has not forgotten the word War, with its terrible finality and destructiveness, nor disremembered Victory. For him it is remains an awful event, serious enough to be attended by smokes and ceremonies only to be undertaken at great risk in the expectation of even greater plunder.
    Preshizzle O’Dumbugger (AKA Mrs Reggie Love) – Paco™ – has used his most effective tactic and very strangely in his eyes, absolutely no-one was impressed by how explosively he managed to crap his drawers. So he’ll switch to his next most effective foreign affairs strategy and go golfing. That idiot Kerry continues to play with himself in the corner, while Biden is ogling his own navel-lint.

    Wonder what Beijing is about to do.

    Anyone want to predict a US response now to a ramped up Chinese oeprational stance to Japan and Taiwan?

    Anyone want to say just how reliable the USA now is as a strategic partner for Australia?

    We live in interesting times. And that’s a curse.

  64. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Party like it’s September 1938?

    Seems like the only thing to do….

  65. srr

    the Orange Revolution was a peaceful protest that forced a judicial review and a new election in accordance with the constitution. This time Yanukovich has been overthrown by armed confrontation and a parliamentary coup.

    Yanukovich was democratically elected President of the Ukraine in 2010. He won what most observers consider to be a free and fair election. Yanukovich won because the Yushenko regime was seen to be divided, corrupt and ineffectual.

    The same has been true of Yanukovich’s regime. The proper way to remove him, then, would have been through legal, peaceful and democratic means. Instead, a precedent has been set for violence, not democracy, to be the rule in Ukrainian politics.

    When in November last year Yanukovich turned down an EU association agreement in favour of a direct economic deal with Russia, the trouble began. The EU offer came with political strings attached, including the release from prison of the former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, one of the leaders of the Orange Revolution who subsequently fell out with Yushenko.

    Nor was the EU financial package large enough to help Ukraine pay off its massive debts and stave off national bankruptcy. Because the EU has its own debt problems — as we here in Ireland know — its largesse in relation to Ukraine is limited,
    although the EU would probably be willing to provide more aid to a pro-western Kiev government.

    Russia, on the other hand, offered Yanukovich a US$15 billion aid programme and reduced energy prices. Yanukovich accepted that deal because it offered the best hope for Ukraine to survive its current economic crisis.

  66. The Russian’s have played this damnably well so far. The US is coming off looking like a manipulative, whiny bully, and the EU is looking irrelevant.

    Russia is the nation with strong leadership, a physical border, and even in the west is holding the sway of public opinion.

    Ukraine will be split, with really only the new border up for negotiation.

  67. srr

    So fellow Cats, when did the uber-Statist dictatorial EU, become ‘the good guys’ in the eyes of classical libertarians?

    When (NO LONGER Communist), Russia re-embraced The Christian Faith?

    When Putin told the world Islam can forget about converting Russia to Islam?

    When Putin told the world that homosexuals must stop trying to convert children to homosexuality?

    When Putin treated Obama like the weak, grovelling, two-headed lap-dog of both Islam and the Homosexual Lobby, he is?

    When and why did that bloody monster, the EU, become The Classical Libertarian’s Hero?

  68. Linden

    thanks for that, its up

  69. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Putin has played Mrs Reggie Love errr… I mean Preshizzle O’Dumbugger (Paco™) like a fiddle, and shows that just having (lets face it) fairly pedestrian levels of foreign policy smarts means being seen as deft and Machievellian as compared to the snivelling incompetence of Obama and the emasculated whining of Brussels.

    The Crimea is now back in Russian hands and will stay there. Expect them to do a defacto re-occupation of other parts of eastern Ukraine.

    Putin has essentially reconquered the Near Abroad and brought them back under the Russian umbrella – Finlandised them, to re-use an old meme.

    The next stage in the game of ‘bugger Washington with a red hot barbed-wire wrapped titanium flagpole’ lies in Beijing’s reactions to Putin’s proving beyond the slightest doubt that O’Dumbugger is a clueless cretin, a blithering incompetent and coward.

    the real danger is that at some point over the next 3 years of Preshizzle O’Dumbugger’s Imbecilistration, someone will push this incompetent coward so hard he’ll panic, and try to prove that his needle-dick is actually a big swinging dick.

    History is replete with that sort of thing, and proves that it rarely ends well.

    And both Moscow and Beijing have to be thinking that O’Dumbugger makes a lovely Napoleon III, only stupider and far more arrogant.

  70. Alfonso

    Now the Uks are very sorry they surrendered all the ex Russian nucs on their terrotory.
    Hee, hee….all?

    Who really gives a rats who runs Ukraine. No dog in this fight for the West.

  71. David

    Anyone want to say just how reliable the USA now is as a strategic partner for Australia?

    I’d say not at all. The red hats at Russell and Senator Conroy would be wise to do a strategic rethink of where we stand.

  72. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    David

    There’s a Defence review underway to fully define the damage the Lying Slapper did to the ADF (and credit where it is due, it was her and not nearly so much Rudd).

    This is going to shift the parameters. I expect a full White paper level strategic reassessment is starting, oh, tomorrow at about midday!

  73. I am the Walrus, koo koo k'choo

    Would love to know the reactions in Beijing, Tokyo, Taipei, Seoul, Pyongyang and Manila.

    The US is asleep at the wheel. This is huge news.

  74. Nanuestalker

    Obama must really scare the shit out of Putin. LOL!

    Obama’s problem is that his wife thinks she’s Florence Nightingale which makes him think’s he’s an expert on Crimea.

    I’m sure Putin must call Obama: ‘the Kenyan with the lamp’.

  75. Yep. Depending on what happens over the next two weeks, China will “bring back to the fold it’s renegade province.”
    Obama won’t come off the golf course until it’s too late, and then over react.
    Buy up groceries big, fellas.
    …and lead lined undies.

  76. Tel

    Yep. Depending on what happens over the next two weeks, China will “bring back to the fold it’s renegade province.”
    Obama won’t come off the golf course until it’s too late, and then over react.

    There’s a big difference. Taiwan is not internally divided like the Ukraine. Taiwan has modern weapons and at least some shit togetherness. A lot of Taiwan’s near neighbours are independent, armed, and earnestly interested in keeping the present situation stable indefinitely.

    When you look at the neighbourhood around the Ukraine, the EU clearly enjoys interfering with other country’s politics so long as they don’t stick their own neck out, none of the individual EU nations are willing to make an effort (and in the case of Italy, Greece, etc it’s doubtful they could contribute much).

  77. duncanm

    hey Shane.

    Nice HLR straw-man.

    Don’t let the facts get in the way, will you?

  78. duncanm

    ok.. maybe I went in a bit harsh. You did admit that you ‘didn’t know of any published comments’.

    But it took me all of 5min on google to scrape that original article up.

    Your google-fu is weak, or you didn’t try.

  79. duncanm

    Taiwan also has a F’n great big economy that the world’s electronics industry relies heavily on.

    No way it’ll be swallowed by China without a fight.

  80. Nanuestalker

    Ukraine will be split, with really only the new border up for negotiation.

    Very possible with 60%+ of people on the Crimean peninsula identifying as Russian.

  81. David

    Thanks Mk50. It should make interesting reading.

  82. Jim Rose

    The Ukraine border clashes are an example of how trade is a force for peace.

    Russia and the Ukraine are major gas exporters to the EU.

    War would cost Russia a lot in terms of being a reliable supplier of energy.

    Russian self-interest in retaining and growing energy export markets is a much stronger force for peace than any empty threat from the White House

  83. Riverina Matt

    The pro-Russian apologists are out in force again. When confronted with an honest-to-God actual fascist regime, the apologists in the west continue to look for reasons to support them and oppose the democratic alternative.

    The revolution in the Ukraine was one of those rare things, a geniune popular uprising against an authoritarian, kleptocratic regime. As for why the leaders of the revolution look west, that’s easy to explain: Russia is even more of a fascist pseudo-democracy while the EU – for all its faults – isn’t in the business of invading its neighbours and killing its dissidents. The moral equivalency drawn in this comment thread between the EU and the Putin regime is sickening.

    We were asked to be honest above. Ok, let’s be honest. What we are seeing here is simply Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 – Russia looking to ensure its neighbours know their place. Lacking the excuse of protecting the proletarian revolution, Putin has pulled a trick from Hitler 1938 – acting as protector of a “persecuted” linguistic minority. No doubt, soon Putin will follow the next step in Hitler’s playbook and answer the call from Crimea for “anschluss” – to the cheers of the useful idiots in the west.

    Yes, I agree that this is “a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing” and there is little useful the west can do. The west is weak, mushy and poorly led with a empty suit in the White House while Russia is strong and determined (although fragile). Still, rather than parrot Russian propaganda and justify invasions using great power political measures – if there is a side to be chosen I will choose the Ukrainians who wish to be part of the west (as imperfect as it is) over the Putinista thugs and their fellow travellers. Others can make their own choices

  84. Alfonso

    “No way it’ll be swallowed by China without a fight.’

    Nonsense, they’ll fold, too much wealth to lose with no hope of winning.
    They’ll sue for Hong Kong type treatment.
    An observant hunter years ago noted many Taiwanese infantry wearing ski masks to protect their identity, preparing for when they lose.

  85. Ed

    “No way it’ll be swallowed by China without a fight.’

    China don’t care about Taiwan as much as they used to.
    The passions were inflamed in part because Taiwan was seen as much more successful, while China languished. But China has boomed, so the emotional reasons driving the conflict have abated. Not so say there’s no issue there but it isn’t red hot any more.

  86. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    jim Rose:

    The Ukraine border clashes are an example of how trade is a force for peace.

    While true, it’s a very weak force for peace. There’s not a bad coverage of it in 1913: In Search of the World Before the Great War, by Charles Emmerson.

    It was widely thought in 1900-1913 that the globalised world the British Empire played the major role in building built 1850-1913 had made a major war between the Great Powers impossible. They pointed to teh facts: it would destroy the world finance system, shatter global trade, and each nation depended on others for critical goods. The British did not have a chemical dye industry: the germans dominated. The Germans did not export industrial fuel (coal), the British dominated amd so on and so forth right down the line.

    In concert with Emmerson, read Barbara Tuchman’s brilliant 1966 The Proud Tower: A Portrait of the World Before the War, 1890-1914.

    What this will give you is a deep understanding of how strategic reality (yes, and folly, there was much arrogance, many false assumptions, and incredible folly) trumped trade. In spades.

    The world reached teh globailisation level of 1913 once again, in about 1990.

  87. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC
  88. “I always opposed extending NATO membership eastward because it increased the number of tripwires for war and reduced the size of the buffer zone withe Russia.”

    NATO is an organisation looking for a purpose, currently that purpose is getting people to join to justify its existence.

  89. Shane

    Duncann & Rudiac ,my bad acknowledged sincerely & with a contrite heart.
    Wow,apparently genuine [undigitized?]evidence that Barrack was at Columbia .
    Will pass it onto some statesiders who are in the camp that he is a CIA construct.
    Be that as it may, at least Obama,
    for whatever reason i.e,golf handicap ,laziness , or just possibly the realization that the Ukraine is in the Russian sphere of influence,is showing restraint unlike some of past US mishaps of Grenada ,Afghanistan,Libya,the Balkans etc.

  90. Alfonso

    Yawn, Ukraine has zero importance to the West, why would the West give a s**t, considering the alternative is “intervention” = war with Russia.
    Some looney tune above says the US must take on Russia in the Crimea to prevent Chinese adventurism vs Taiwan etc………..give me strength.
    Better to pretend Germany is so upset it will no longer accept hydrocarbons from those nasty Ruskies and Oby is simply beside himself such that the Bolshoi is no longer welcome for 2 years.
    Bwaa….so many simple souls.

  91. Jim Rose

    thanks Mk50 of Brisbane for the reading tips, did not know of both books.

    many wars including World War 1 were products of mutual alarm and unpredictable tests of will.

    Schelling and others in the 1950s and after studied World War 1 to learn how to not blunder into wars when nuclear weapons now would be used.

    Wars are like bar fights. Both are about not backing down.

    when people discuss the futility of World War 1, they under rate the role of unintended consequences and the dark side of human rationality in situations involving collective action.

    It is harder to get out of a war than into one. The problem is credible assurances that the peace is lasting rather than a chance for the other side to rebuild and come back and attack from a stronger position.

    what was the purpose of the common market?

  92. I am the Walrus, koo koo k'choo

    Alfonso, the point of importance is not Ukraine.

    It’s Pres. Obama’s limp-wristed response to Russian actions, and how that response will be interpreted by allies who are counting on the US for their security.

  93. As of today, Russia is the strongest force standing for western culture and order on the planet.

    The mighty have fallen.

  94. .

    Riverina Matt is right. Those of you supporting Yanukovych still at this point will regret their positions later on.

  95. sdfc

    No they won’t dot. When are you going to wake up to the fact that some of your cohorts on the right are unadulterated supports of fascism. Just their favoured kind.

  96. Don’t give a crap about Yanukovych. I’m with Putin on this one.

  97. When are you going to wake up to the fact that some of your cohorts on the right are unadulterated supports of fascism.

    Not so much supporters of fascism as opponents of democracy.

  98. Beertruk

    As predicted in 1980 by Mental As Anything on their album Espresso Bongo, which I still have.

    Troop Movements In The Ukraine :

    I read it in the paper
    I saw it on the news
    I heard it on the radio
    They told me at work
    Troop movements in the Ukraine
    Missile silos in the sugar cane

    No desire to die in an Asian swamp
    Where they’ve got no proper toilets
    Where they’ve got no modern shops
    I’ve been learning Russian
    And I’m visiting a Mosque
    I’ll build a steel house
    No matter what it costs

    Who wants to be in the military army
    From force of habit persuasion by the law
    I’d rather stay here and survive the war
    By hiding in a grain elevator

    If I don’t mind missing out on the pleasures of looting
    I don’t mind missing out on death by shouting
    I’ll worry about motor car accidents
    Cancer and the politics of rootage

  99. sdfc

    Should have posted this here.

    Democracy and prosperity would seem to be the best defences against fascism.

  100. Alfonso

    “and how that response will be interpreted by allies who are counting on the US for their security.”

    Oh dear you’re in the 1980s…the US has fought its last optional big war. The US demographic avalanche is more likely to find common cultural cause with Mexico than Australia.
    No more US money or US lives are going to thumbsucking US allies even unto the time line of your grandkids.
    US allies like Australia will finally realise they are on their own strategically and we must therefore nuc up in the next 20 years.
    Pity about the useless, BS spec next sub , it coulda been nuc with nuc cruise missiles.

  101. Ripper

    No they won’t dot. When are you going to wake up to the fact that some of your cohorts on the right are unadulterated supports of fascism. Just their favoured kind.

    Spot on. That Mc Cain came out accusing Russia of crony Capitalism is hypocrisy in the extreme.

    The US is as bad or worse. If you are a libertarian it is time to realise that we are on our own and should act as such.

  102. Cold-Hands

    A White House official emailed some reporters to say that President Obama’s team met today to discuss the ongoing situation on Ukraine. It appears President Obama did not attend.

    Too busy spending quality time with Reggie, no doubt.

  103. Infidel Tiger

    admit it.. you laughed.

    I did. Obama’s a chubby fag, however Putin is a pudgy poof with bitch tits. Both of those ladies should keep their shirts on.

    For all Tony Abbott’s multitude of failings at least he isn’t a calorie challenged blancmange.

  104. I am the Walrus, koo koo k'choo

    the US has fought its last optional big war. The US demographic avalanche is more likely to find common cultural cause with Mexico than Australia.
    No more US money or US lives are going to thumbsucking US allies even unto the time line of your grandkids.
    US allies like Australia will finally realise they are on their own strategically and we must therefore nuc up in the next 20 years.

    Umm, yes, that’s what I’m talking about.

  105. Tel

    As of today, Russia is the strongest force standing for western culture and order on the planet.

    The mighty have fallen.

    That’s outrageously unfair. I’d bloody well take offence at that… if I was Indian.

  106. Tel

    … the US has fought its last optional big war.

    Not last forever, but last for a time. They will bounce back, just take a bit of time to reinvent themselves and make up their minds what they want to do.

  107. That’s outrageously unfair. I’d bloody well take offence at that… if I was Indian.

    Heh.

  108. bobby b

    Putin better watch it, or he’s going to force Obama into his end-game of announcing that he deplores Russia’s acts.

    Interesting psychological interactions here. Obama is a well-connected Chicago Thug Kleptocrat. By his actions early in his term, it appears that he expected Putin to recognize that they were essentially soulmates – Obama’s oligarchs are more restrained and polite than are Putin’s, but both Putin and Obama put their best efforts at directing billions of their countries’ dollars to their supporters, in order to buy more support.

    I guess O never realized that there can only be one head thug, and Putin isn’t giving that title up.

  109. Mike of Marion

    Obama on a girl’s bike too!!!

  110. Ed

    Putin better watch it, or he’s going to force Obama into his end-game of announcing that he deplores Russia’s acts.

    Actually in all seriousness, he’d better watch it or he’ll force Obama into overcompensating.

    Wars frequently start because of miscalculations and misunderstandings. Yes, Obama is weak, but America is not weak. Obama thinks all problems can be solved with words. But Obama also has a record of impulsive military action. How Obama would respond to further Russion action in the Ukraine is unclear.

  111. Alfonso

    My point is ”how that response will be interpreted by allies who are counting on the US for their security” is irrelevant to the US. The allies just don’t get it yet.

  112. lotocoti

    he’ll force Obama into overcompensating

    Given Bronco Bama’s past form, Russia will end up with basing rights at NS Mayport.

  113. Splatacrobat

    How Obama would respond to further Russion action in the Ukraine is unclear.

    Announce further cuts to military spending and broaden Obamacare to include Ukrainian illegal immigrants is my bet.

  114. “My point is ”how that response will be interpreted by allies who are counting on the US for their security” is irrelevant to the US. The allies just don’t get it yet.”

    “Why should America do for you what you’re unwilling to do yourself?”

    Will be America’s answer to all those who’ve been hiding under their defence umbrella for the past 50 years without sharing any of the real burden when the Americans decide they can all go it alone…

  115. Nanuestalker

    LOL!

    Mark R. Boyle @markrboyle
    White House says Obama on the phone to Putin for 90 minutes. Didn’t tell us he was on hold for 87.
    12:59 PM – 2 Mar 2014

  116. Alfonso

    ‘Why should America do for you what you’re unwilling to do yourself?’

    It shouldn’t…..and with its massive debt burden, can’t.

  117. .

    Driftforge
    #1210263, posted on March 2, 2014 at 8:50 pm
    When are you going to wake up to the fact that some of your cohorts on the right are unadulterated supports of fascism.

    Not so much supporters of fascism as opponents of democracy.

    You’re presuming he fairly won the election, citing the EU as a source, who know you are saying are involved in some perfidy.

    Putin and Yanukovich conspired to put Tymoshenko up on trumped up charges. Yanukovich gave up sovereignty in doing so. From this point forward, he had zero legitimacy.

  118. “It shouldn’t…..and with its massive debt burden, can’t.”

    And that is a good thing, perhaps upon coming to the realisation that America isn’t our body-guard our dear leaders might get around to taking defence seriously…

  119. .

    ‘How big does a mob have to be to supplant an elected government?’

    Eventually a sort of consensus was reached that the Yanukovych government had lost legitimacy because it had opened fire on what was repeatedly described as a peaceful crowd.

    Let’s be fuckin’ realistic for a moment guys!

    If Tony Abbott conspired with the President of Indonesia to put up Jenny Macklin on trumped up charges, the AFP would be justified in killing civilians protesting his legitimacy?

    Let’s break that down: If the leader of the national government surrendered national sovereignty to appease the wishes of a powerful neighbour, the security agencies would be justified in shooting civilians who protest the no longer existing legitimacy of the elected government?

    You guys have brainwashed yourselves.

    Let’s defend America for a moment. America is more than Barack Obama. You have fallen for the leftist ideals of the cult of personality etc.

    Let’s not defend fascists because we’d rather Palin as President or we know Australia is getting nearer the EU with over-regulation of the economy etc.

  120. Dot, for better or worse Yanukovych was the duly elected President, he obtained that position because the mob took to the street to put him there. Regardless of the protesters being peaceful they were in large part supported by and encouraged by interfering EU entities, this lead the legitimate government of the day to assume that the fix was in and that it had little option but to defend its legitimacy and sovereignty.

    It doesn’t make it right, but let’s be honest here, those protests only happened as a result of external agitation and the EU should be rightfully ashamed of itself for circumventing the democratic process of a sovereign state.

    This is a confrontation between two authoritarian empires, and we should all be hoping Russia wins, not because we agree that Russia’s penchant for fascism is distasteful, but because it would be in our greater interest to see the demise of the EU.

  121. srr

    It’s the Muslim wielding East Facing West Dominating EU stirring for war, as they always do, and no one is game to break the taboo and admit it (and just kick ‘em in the Brusselsprouts), for some stupid fear of being pricked with black magic voodoo pins, by the white tie wearing pigs.

    What I find horrifying, is the lack of comparison in commentaries, to what the Coalition of EuroPigs & Muslims, did to the once modern, friendly and peaceful Yugoslavia, after they successfully hosted a Winter Olympics.

    Suddenly, no amount of money, special privileges and power positions, was enough for the Muslims amongst them, who did nothing but whinge that they weren’t treated special enough…and suddenly, the whole world believed that the Muslims were victims who had the right to slaughter their just and peaceful hosts, who had the gall to fight back as hard as they were attacked!

    Well, a great many Ukrainians who escaped The Starvation and other woes of wars, settled, quite happily and peacefully in Tito’s Yugoslavia. They recognise what’s being done in the Ukraine now, as what was done to Yugoslavia.

    Other Ukrainians saw what was coming to Yugoslavia and Europe, and got out and away as far as they could, where they could serve God in His most blessed land, in peace….but the philistine leftist scum, jealously invaded the arts and media (because they don’t have a creative bone in their Creator hating body), to set their even more destructive propaganda machine and Islamic allies, onto every good and loyal Australian to.

    When a naturally blessed, grateful and peaceful people, have nowhere left to peacefully move to, they naturally stand and fight, with their natural allies.

    Roman, Russian, Ukrainian et al, yes there is more than one family of the Catholic Church, but they all love and serve The Same Father, and for over 2000 years, hundreds before Islam was invented and yes, even before men agreed to name a certain strip of desert, ‘Jerusalem’, men have tried to destroy That Church, and failed.

    In fact, if anything good can be thought about Her enemies, is that all the attacking, hacking, chopping and dividing, has worked like a gardener pruning, spicing and replanting the strong healthy fruit producing trees, and burning off the diseased.

    …’interesting times’, may be a curse for Godless Huns, but still for the faithful… from out of a little pub, in country Victoria, in The Glorious Land of Oz….a strong man set out….

  122. Driftforge

    Let’s defend America for a moment. America is more than Barack Obama. You have fallen for the leftist ideals of the cult of personality

    Of course it is. And yet it is not we who have fallen for the leftist cult, but a large portion of they — America — who have done so. In the fullness of time the American people may well rise up and become a nation of power again, but for now, the rabbits are at them helm and hold the positions of influence in the media, the universities, the judiciary, and the state.

    Do not expect people to argue for ‘potential’ that is not being taken up. Today, Russia is the only nation of western heritage capable of exerting that power in the interests of extending the hegemony of western heritage.

    The US has immensely more capability but is internally beset by a ruling class who see external forces as their natural allies against the very ‘Americans’ you speak of.

    The American will rise again, but not until it has been through a second civil war or broken up into different nations. They are becoming so divergent that it’s like Ukraine writ large – schismatic lines through the nation that define where future nations will be formed.

  123. Driftforge

    Sketches on how the US might split.

    The left and right will eventually refuse to cohabit. Basically, the coasts are going to fray from the centre.

  124. .

    It’s the Muslim wielding East Facing West Dominating EU stirring for war, as they always do

    What does this even mean?

  125. .

    this lead the legitimate government of the day to assume that the fix was in and that it had little option but to defend its legitimacy and sovereignty.

    No.If the government surrenders sovereignty, they are not legitimate.

    Yanukovich surrendered sovereignty to Russia when he was complicit in the persecution of Tymoshenko.

  126. .

    Also note:

    Yanukovich is a traitor.

    How does a head of state who has committed treason have any claim to legitimacy?

    What about the democratic rights of the Ukrainians who get to decide if they are a client state of Russia or not?

    Yanukovich was never authorised to acquiesce sovereignty to Russia.

    If we are going to talk about democracy and rule of law, how can the complicity in the persecution of Tymoshenko be defended without a sense of irony?

  127. srr

    It’s the Muslim wielding East Facing West Dominating EU stirring for war, as they always do

    What does this even mean?

    Ishmael/Islam = weapon

  128. .

    I thought Ishmael was hebrew for ‘Whom God hears…”

  129. srr

    It’s the Muslim wielding East Facing West Dominating EU stirring for war, as they always do

    What does this even mean?

    Ishmael/Islam = weapon
    East Facing = Anti ‘Western’/Christian
    West Dominating = Christian law trashing EU Law Enforcing
    EU stirring for war, as they always do = EU stirring for war, as they always do,
    i.e. Empowering Islam all over Europe to get away with bloody, public murders, hold annual French car-b-q’s unmolested, make food, clothes, words, traditions etc. illegal, SLAUGHTER FELLOW CITIZENS, declare wars and claim secular and Christian nations as Islamic, YOU KNOW, all that evil….

  130. Fisky

    You are on the wrong site.

    Which is the right site? It’s unreadable crap.

  131. srr

    Yeah and Jesus is a lot of Mexican crack dealers.

    Acting thick, to try and make others sound stupid, is what high school humanities tools are trained to do.

    I used to think better of why you argue your bad positions.
    But, since you stopped arguing and took up childishly insulting posters and readers, well, lets just say, I hope your old friends care to help you through this dark place you seem to want to settle down in

  132. .

    My bad position of recognising that Yanukovich is a traitor and conspired with Russian sympathising communists to persecute Maidan and handed over sovereignty to Russia in his persecution of Tymoshenko?

    Do you actually give a shit about the Ukrainians or do you only want to grandstand and tub thump about how much you hate da mossies?

    Does the irony escape you given the umbrage about the EU being too left wing whilst Yanukovich conspired with real life, actual, committed, true believing Bolshevik members of his own Federal Parliament?

  133. srr

    To paraphrase Pratchett -

    Christians say, ‘I don’t understand you, yet, so lets talk some more.’

    Atheists say, ‘I don’t understand you, what’s wrong with you!’

    But, ‘it’s the God thing’, stupid.
    You don’t want to understand, and it’s not my job to make you.

    Anyway…back to those genuinely wondering about the Ukraine situation: anyone trying to play down or fob off the clash between pro-Palestinian Leftist ‘western’ Europe, and Catholic Church re-embracing Russia, is being disingenuous at best.

  134. Driftforge

    Dot, do you think the likely outcome at the moment — Ukraine being partitioned into its two divergent portions (i.e South West Russia and East Poland) — is a bad outcome for anyone?

  135. .

    Anyway…back to those genuinely wondering about the Ukraine situation: anyone trying to play down or fob off the clash between pro-Palestinian Leftist ‘western’ Europe, and Catholic Church re-embracing Russia, is being disingenuous at best.

    Imbecile.

  136. .

    Do the utterly naive pro Putin stooges here realise the Yanukovich allies in Ukrainian Parliament (including pro Russian, true believer Bolsheviks) included votes of absent Parliamentarians to get bills through Parliament?

    You still want to defend these guys on the basis of “democracy” and “rule of law”?

  137. .

    Driftforge
    #1210801, posted on March 3, 2014 at 1:32 pm
    Dot, do you think the likely outcome at the moment — Ukraine being partitioned into its two divergent portions (i.e South West Russia and East Poland) — is a bad outcome for anyone?

    I don’t reckon that is likely at all.

    The likely outcome is Ukraine stays independent and keeps most of its terriroty, and Russia bags Crimea, which is a good outcome for everyone really.

  138. Driftforge

    Imbecile.

    Do try and keep two thoughts in your head at the same time.

    The Ukrainian situation developed because of ongoing, systemic corruption on all sides of politics in the Ukraine.

    The broader geopolitical picture, of which srr is referring to, is simply taking advantage of the opportunity presented.

    The Russian bit of what used to be the Ukraine will now likely remain stable and relativley prosperous. The other half is going to be a mess for some time.

  139. Driftforge

    The likely outcome is Ukraine stays independent and keeps most of its terriroty, and Russia bags Crimea, which is a good outcome for everyone really.

    I don’t actually see the western half of Ukraine being absorbed by another country.

    The Crimea is about 30-40% of the country.

  140. .

    Anyway…back to those genuinely wondering about the Ukraine situation: anyone trying to play down or fob off the clash between pro-Palestinian Leftist ‘western’ Europe, and Catholic Church re-embracing Russia, is being disingenuous at best.

    I don’t think I was harsh enough calling srr an imbecile.

    Putin is a KGB man. The same KGB which was the secret police of the regime which bankrolled and armed the United Arab Republic, the PLO (Fatah) etc. Does Russia support Israel or not?

    The Russian State uses religion. Always has and always will. Stalin did it too, during the war.

    Do you really think the nationalist fanatics in the Russian Orthodox Church (in Russia, not in the US or here etc) really want the Catholic Church turning up next door? You do understand why Russia has the double headed Imperial Eagle of Byzantine as it’s emblem, don’t you?

  141. Demosthenes

    To paraphrase Pratchett

    Please don’t.

  142. .

    The Ukrainian situation developed because of ongoing, systemic corruption on all sides of politics in the Ukraine.

    Yes.

    The Maidan don’t want the old order. They want it gone. They don’t want US, Russian or German “influence”.

    Ukraine would keep most of its territory. As you agree.

    Bringing up Palestine and the Vatican in this discussion is imbecilic.

  143. .

    The Russian bit of what used to be the Ukraine will now likely remain stable and relativley prosperous. The other half is going to be a mess for some time.

    It was fine until the pro Russian, sovereignty acquiescing Yanukovich took over. I have posted the GDP growth figures before. Yanukovich was an unmitigated economic disaster. When Tymoshenko was a Minister, GDP popped along at 6% growth on average, bar the GFC downturn in 2009, which hit all of Eastern Europe hard.

  144. stackja

    Putin decrees and that is it. Who is going to stop him?

  145. .

    The broader geopolitical picture, of which srr is referring to, is simply taking advantage of the opportunity presented.

    No. It is imbecilic. I have outlined why, it is even ironic and imbecilic.

  146. Vasily

    @ Riverina Matt,

    You make me laugh. There are actual Fascists in the new Ukrainian government called Svoboda. Look them up. The new PM Yatsenyuk lives in a mansion a stone’s throw from Yanukovich’s one that we all saw on TV. It has a separate house for his body guards, so popular is he with the people. Please, you can’t see the Ukraine from the Riverina, so don’t pretend.

  147. Driftforge

    No. It is imbecilic. I have outlined why, it is even ironic and imbecilic.

    You outlined the internal politics of it. I must have missed the rest..

  148. .

    There are actual Fascists in the new Ukrainian government called Svoboda.

    I’m guessing Maidan aren’t happy with this?

  149. .

    Christ almighty. I feel sorry Ukrainians.

    One hand they have Bolsheviks handing over sovereignty to Russia and vote rigging in Parliament. On the other hand, they have this trash to contend with:

    (Svoboda, from wiki)

    In 2004 party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”[39][48] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a “‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre” in 2005, later changing “Joseph Goebbels” to “Ernst Jünger.”[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[48][91][111] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a “period of Light in history”

  150. .

    Christ almighty. I feel sorry Ukrainians.

    One hand they have Bolsheviks handing over sovereignty to Russia and vote rigging in Parliament. On the other hand, they have this trash to contend with:

    (Svoboda, from wiki)

    In 2004 party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”[39][48] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a “‘Joseph Go-bells Political Research Centre” in 2005, later changing “Joseph Go-bells” to “Ernst Jünger.”[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[48][91][111] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a “period of Light in history”

  151. .

    Christ almighty. I feel sorry Ukrainians.

    One hand they have Bolsheviks handing over sovereignty to Russia and vote rigging in Parliament. On the other hand, they have this trash to contend with:

    (Svoboda, from wiki)

    In 2004 party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”[39][48] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a “‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre” in 2005, later changing “Joseph Goebbels” to “Ernst Jünger.”[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Go-bells.[48][91][111] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a “period of Light in history”

  152. .

    (Damn moderation)

    Christ almighty. I feel sorry Ukrainians.

    One hand they have Bolsheviks handing over sovereignty to Russia and vote rigging in Parliament. On the other hand, they have this trash to contend with:

    (Svoboda, from wiki)

    In 2004 party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”[39][48] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a “‘Joseph Go-bells Political Research Centre” in 2005, later changing “Joseph Go-bells” to “Ernst Jünger.”[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Go-bells.[48][91][111] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a “period of Light in history”

  153. Driftforge

    One hand they have Bolsheviks handing over sovereignty to Russia and vote rigging in Parliament.

    Of course the other option on offer at the time was handing the same sovereignty over to the EU. It’s not as though there were a lot of options open to them.

  154. .

    I really don’t see how Merkel thinks she would enforce that.

  155. “Yanukovich surrendered sovereignty to Russia when he was complicit in the persecution of Tymoshenko.”

    And surrendering the Ukraine to the EU isn’t surrendering their sovereignty? Regardless of what Yanukovich did or didn’t do, it doesn’t excuse the EU from interfering in the internal politics of a sovereign state like it has been in the Ukraine.

    Maybe this time the EU will get the smack on the hand it needs to ensure it isn’t so willing to trample over the internal affairs of sovereign states in the future.

  156. .

    And surrendering the Ukraine to the EU isn’t surrendering their sovereignty?

    This is hyperbole. Did Tymoshenko do this before Yanukovich presumably stole the election? Do Maidan want to do this? Will the unlikable interim fascist PM going to truck with the EU?

    Hints:

    No.
    No.
    No.

    Maybe this time the EU will get the smack on the hand it needs to ensure it isn’t so willing to trample over the internal affairs of sovereign states in the future.

    Russia gets a pass though. The thought processes on this site over this issue are unbelievably friggin’ dopey. Putin is “ex” KGB, FFS.

  157. .

    Can someone explain how the EU has “taken over the Ukraine” with a hostile PM, a sceptical protest movement, no force porjection and 30% of the landmass (ethnically/historically Russian or strongly Russian speaking) occupied or controlled by Russia?

  158. Token

    This thread is bizarre.

    I still would like someone to explain why the people in the Ukraine would rather be like Belorus rather than Estonia, like Khazakistan rather than Poland.

  159. .

    I know token. Our fellow traveler’s loss of lucidity is making me go around the bend as well.

  160. Russia gets a pass though. The thought processes on this site over this issue are unbelievably friggin’ dopey. Putin is “ex” KGB, FFS.

    What does “ex KGB” have to do with anything, I think we can safely ascertain from Putin’s love of wealth he isn’t a communist. Russia doesn’t need a free pass, it has every right to support the ethnic Russian population of the Crimea in becoming either becoming a part of Russia or a Russian protectorate.

    If the West and the EU wish to dine out on their success of doing the exact same thing to Serbia then quite frankly, what goes around comes around.

    And you obviously missed the large EU flags being waved by the protestors, this was always the crux of the matter, the elected government of the Ukraine decided to reject the EU’s offer and remain a Russian satellite, in response a protest movement was formed, fuelled by EU agitators and other like-minded external entities.

    None of this was about Ukrainian sovereignty, but who best to sell it to.

  161. Token

    What does “ex KGB” have to do with anything, I think we can safely ascertain from Putin’s love of wealth he isn’t a communist.

    This proves he is a “true” communist.

    Every communist dictator become a multi billionaire while keeping his country in extreme poverty & fear. Check.

  162. .

    The people disagree with you, after they:

    1. Likely had an election stolen from them.
    2. Their economy ruined after 15 years of above average growth.
    3. The ruling party has been caught red handed fraudulently counting votes in Parliament (and on this basis, likely “rejected” the EU proposal).
    4. Their President acquiescing sovereignty to a foreign power, in league with pro Russian Bolsheviks which then:
    5. Conspired to trump up charges against the rival of the President and;
    6. Also sent armed forces to shoot and kill protesters.

  163. “This proves he is a “true” communist.”

    Complete nonsense, if he was one of the faithful he would have joined The Greens, or actually stayed in the Communist Party.

  164. Token

    No SeditionaryI. Let’s look at the track record of the religion that has killed more people than even the Mongols under Genghis Khan…

    …Every communist dictator become a multi billionaire while keeping his country in extreme poverty & fear.

  165. “1. Likely had an election stolen from them.
    2. Their economy ruined after 15 years of above average growth.
    3. The ruling party has been caught red handed fraudulently counting votes in Parliament (and on this basis, likely “rejected” the EU proposal).
    4. Their President acquiescing sovereignty to a foreign power, in league with pro Russian Bolsheviks which then:
    5. Conspired to trump up charges against the rival of the President and;
    6. Also sent armed forces to shoot and kill protesters.”

    1, No proof there-of, and only after the mob actually put the guy in power in the first place.
    2, They borrowed a lot of money, it happens.
    3, At the least their parliament votes, the EU wants to rule by dictate, and in a way actually does.
    4, People make deals all the time, maybe it was a favour to secure to money the EU wouldn’t give them but the Russians would?
    5, Can you or anyone else prove that the charges weren’t legitimate?
    6, By that count we should roundly denounce the Americans for shooting protestors, maybe we should cut ties with them and make sure they join the EU too…

  166. Token

    I know token. Our fellow traveler’s loss of lucidity is making me go around the bend as well.

    I suggest they live in the paradise which is a Russian dominated satellite and then get back to us on why a nation dominated by Russia is to be presented as preferable to one which is a client of the US.

  167. “No SeditionaryI. Let’s look at the track record of the religion that has killed more people than even the Mongols under Genghis Khan…”

    Again, if Putin was/is a communist he could have remained a member of the Communist Party, his ultra-nationalist streak is far too deep and broad for it to survive the religion you allude to.

    If you don’t like the guy that’s fine, but calling him a communist is just silly.

  168. .

    1, No proof there-of, and only after the mob actually put the guy in power in the first place.

    No, you don’t know that at all, you are simply presuming that is so, there is plenty of proof. He also rigged the 2012 Parliamentary elections.

    2, They borrowed a lot of money, it happens.

    …and the peasants are revolting, sire!

    3, At the least their parliament votes, the EU wants to rule by dictate, and in a way actually does.

    FFS. You’re out of your fucking mind. You cannot be reasoned with. What do you think a treaty and the designation MEP means?

    4, People make deals all the time, maybe it was a favour to secure to money the EU wouldn’t give them but the Russians would?

    This justifies what? We couldn’t grub money from them so we decided to let another country effectively annex us…

    5, Can you or anyone else prove that the charges weren’t legitimate?

    Have you stopped beating your wife?

    6, By that count we should roundly denounce the Americans for shooting protestors, maybe we should cut ties with them and make sure they join the EU too…

    Bullshit. You cannot imagine what would happen here if Abbott allowed Indonesian special forces to come here and shoot protesters who wanted Australia to defy Indonesian dominance.

  169. .

    Yanukovich has been at it since 2004!

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/election-watchdog-group-supports-call-for-independent-investigation-into-ukraine-election-results-yanukovich-campaign-team-tied-to-election-rigging-allegations-in-united-states-84466277.html

    In 2004, Mr. Yanukovich’s campaign was caught rigging the election after members of his election team were recorded discussing how to destroy evidence that showed tampering with the tabulation results. That revelation led to massive protests in the street, the Orange Revolution and a new vote which resulted in the election of Viktor Yushchenko.

  170. srr

    10 Jule 2013

    Shahira Mahran

    Islam in Ukraine

    Interview with Dr. Emad Abu Ar-Rub, Head of Fatwa Committee

    In the past, Islam in Ukraine used to be confined to historically Muslim regions as Crimea, and was basically limited to ethnic and sectarian boundaries. But now, a growing number of Muslims in Ukraine are forming different faces of Islam, as the Islamic discourse and activism represent a vital role in promoting for this phenomenon. Hailing from the Crimean Tatars, Azeri people, Chechens, and Arabs, Ukrainian Muslims come from an able-bodied history.

    In this day and age, collaboration among Ukrainian Muslims is changing the face of Islam in Ukraine and its social integration, as they gain major support from Ukrainian governmental bodies and Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Turkey.

    Islam existed and flourished over time and since the time of the Tatars, as the country comes home to near 2 millions of Islam followers.

    According to Europenews, “Over the past three years, the number of mosques in Ukraine has grown by some 50 percent. This growth has primarily taken place in the Kherson region (south part of Ukraine).

    “According to the State Committee, the Muslims of Ukraine have 238 religious buildings in the Crimea and 81 in other regions of the country. The network of Islamic religious organizations in Ukraine gained autonomy five times faster than in the Autonomic Republic of Crimea. In early 2008 the network included 133 organizations, in early 2011, 199.”

    OnIslam.net investigated more about the status of Muslims and their organizations in Ukraine through this interview with Mr. Emad Mustapha Abu Ar-Rub, the Head of Fatwa Committee in Ukraine and the Imam of the al-Massar Islamic Center, branched from the al-Raid Union in Ukraine.

    OnIslam.net (OI): What are the institutions that foster the social and legal rights of Ukrainian Muslims? Could you please mention some achievements of major significance that had an impact on the representation of Ukrainian Muslims?

    Muslims are achieving high-profile positions career-wise…day after day, the Muslims’ spirit of effectiveness and change increases.”….continue reading this repeat of what the PRO-PALESTINE EU backed Muslims did in YUGOSLAVIA, and know everyone knows neither you nor I are imbecilic, but that you are being dishonest at best, by demanding people ignore the religious aspect to this crisis that has been growing and spreading over the world like a cancer.

  171. srr

    Apologies for not being able to copy more than one thing, again. Here’s the link -

    http://risu.org.ua/en/index/monitoring/society_digest/52921/

  172. Zatara

    ” By that count we should roundly denounce the Americans for shooting protestors, “

    The entire world did exactly that back in 1968 at the Kent State incident.

    Or did you have something not 45 years old in mind but were too shy to provide it?

  173. to one which is a client of the US

    Ah. Like Libya, or Egypt, or Iraq, or.. oh wait. Or DRC, or..

    Wait – are there good examples of client states of the US?

  174. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Interesting!

    We are now in the situation where one nervous or scared 21 year old infantryman has the ability to make ‘soft’ invasion into a major war: all with one burst of fire.

    And the Preshizzle (Paco™) has already wasted his most powerful foreign policy tactics, explosively filling his jocks and saying he’ll cry.

    Now he’s reduced to sending in Kerry!

    From The Texan:

    Apparently, Queen Hussein [his name for the Preshizzle (Paco™)] was on the phone to Putin for 90 minutes. Putin kept him on hold for 89 minutes and 30 seconds, then said ‘hey, pansy-boy, how’s your husband Reggie doing and why does Moo-chelle have a bigger dick than you?’, guffawed loudly and hung up.

    (Just quietly, I am starting to think ole Tex does not appreciate Barack’s godlike glorious magnificence.)

  175. FFS. You’re out of your fucking mind. You cannot be reasoned with. What do you think a treaty and the designation MEP means?

    Transfer of sovereignty.

  176. .

    Driftforge
    #1211432, posted on March 3, 2014 at 9:38 pm
    FFS. You’re out of your fucking mind. You cannot be reasoned with. What do you think a treaty and the designation MEP means?

    Transfer of sovereignty.

    Err, so if you can agree to a treaty or not to a varying level or not at all and get representation at a body whose proposals must be ratified by your national parliament, this is a transfer of sovereignty?

    Opposed to Yanukovich actually inviting the Russians in and kowtowing to them.

  177. Dot, you seem to be fixated on Yanukovich. He is an irrelevancy, an internal matter, part of all that has gone wrong in the Ukraine.

    The EU got trumped; sovereignty transferred to Russia instead. There wasn’t a ‘keep your sovereignty’ option; there really never is once you get that far in debt.

    So now.. half to two thirds of the country is in the semi legitimate control of a bunch of thugs; situation normal for the Ukraine. The other third is under Russian control; arguably another set of thugs, but ones under the control of Putin; leadership is everything. Everyone is a bit nervous but the situation is at the very least not worse for anyone, and arguably looking a lot better for the Russian bit of the country than it is for the rest.

  178. Err, so if you can agree to a treaty or not to a varying level or not at all and get representation at a body whose proposals must be ratified by your national parliament, this is a transfer of sovereignty?

    Firstly, there is only one acceptable answer to an EU proposal, and you are expected to keep taking the proposal back to your parliament until the correct answer is given.

    Secondly, yes that is a transfer of sovereignty. Just like the states transferred a large portion of their sovereignty to the Federal government here when it formed.

    There is no particular difference between the two scenarios you put up – sovereignty disposed of slice by slice, or in one hit to a preferred sovereign.

  179. .

    Muslims are achieving high-profile positions career-wise…day after day, the Muslims’ spirit of effectiveness and change increases.”….continue reading this repeat of what the PRO-PALESTINE EU backed Muslims did in YUGOSLAVIA, and know everyone knows neither you nor I are imbecilic, but that you are being dishonest at best, by demanding people ignore the religious aspect to this crisis that has been growing and spreading over the world like a cancer.

    “WE MUST STOP UKRAINE BEING INDEPENDENT BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE MUSLIMS”

    Not really your place to decide for them. They need fresh elections and plebiscites for each shire/county to decide what their future is.

  180. .

    Firstly, there is only one acceptable answer to an EU proposal, and you are expected to keep taking the proposal back to your parliament until the correct answer is given.

    ???

    So I guess the ALP contesting elections is undemocratic then?

    There is no particular difference between the two scenarios you put up – sovereignty disposed of slice by slice, or in one hit to a preferred sovereign.

    Brussels has not sent in EU special forces to shoot UKIP protesters with a complicit UK Government.

    I don’t understand why you are so myopic about this.

  181. srr

    “WE MUST STOP UKRAINE BEING INDEPENDENT BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE MUSLIMS”

    Not really your place to decide for them

    and definitely not your place to “QUOTE” what someone has NOT said, or to keep “quoting” only the bits you choose to intentionally twist out of all context.

    you are worse than dishonest

  182. Driftforge

    I’m not sure why you continue to draw parallels that have no validity. UKIP hasn’t exactly stormed the central square and attempted to depose the government through a coup.

    I’d hope the Brits could still take care of that themselves, and that if under attack they would fire back.

  183. .

    you are worse than dishonest

    You aren’t intelligent enough to be taken seriously.

  184. .

    Driftforge
    #1211699, posted on March 3, 2014 at 11:47 pm
    I’m not sure why you continue to draw parallels that have no validity. UKIP hasn’t exactly stormed the central square and attempted to depose the government through a coup.

    Because the UK Government hasn’t invited the EU to shoot at protesters to stop them protesting crashing the economy, rigging elections, committing fraudulent votes in Parliament and surrendering sovereignty to the EU and conspiring with the EU to prosecute their political rivals on trumped up charges.

Comments are closed.