Scott Ryan on 18c

Senator RYAN (Victoria—Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education) (16:30): I have said before that I am a first amendment type of guy. I have long admired the American culture that values freedom of speech as a critical, non-negotiable and—I think even more importantly—virtually un-conditional component of a free society. Senator Wong talks about people being attacked. I should probably declare at this point that I am a longstanding member and a former research fellow of the Institute of Public Affairs. What we have heard from the other side of this chamber—and from my good friend, Senator Cameron, who has just left—over and over again is the vilification of people merely by virtue of the institute at which they work. There is a reason why the Greens and the ALP hate the Institute of Public Affairs—it is because it is not part of their public sector mentality. It challenges the precepts that they put up, and it cannot be bowed by the fact that it is not on the public sector drip, the way they wish all civil society was.

What we have just heard from Senator Wong and what we have heard constantly from those opposite, including the Greens, relies on a profound misunderstanding of what our society is. They seem to view our rights, particularly our right to speech and our right to discuss—our right to participate in democracy and in a free flow of ideas—as coming to us via a licence from politicians or judges. They seem to think that, somehow, the laws in this place determine what we are allowed and not allowed to say. That is a profound misrepresentation of our constitutional and legal history. It is only in recent times that there have been such limits on things like speech. This is a profound fissure in what we view as the role of the state, and what we view as the role of the government and its relationship with the citizens of this country. Senator Wong accused Senator Brandis of celebrating the rights of bigots. What I will say is that I condemn the bigot, but I celebrate the rights of every citizen. And that is important, because a commitment to freedom of speech only really counts when it is tested. A commitment to freedom of speech only really counts when it comes to defending something you profoundly and viscerally disagree with—and that is where my commitment to free speech lies.
It is not about the public funding of artists. I do not have to fund someone to support their right to say something. There is a profound difference between the allocation of taxpayers’ resources to give someone the right to do something, and the question of whether or not they are allowed to say something. I will defend the right of someone to speak, but that does not entail and should not be confused with the idea that I should resource them to speak.
We have heard the constant complaints of those opposite over the last 48 hours about ethnic community leaders, multicultural community leaders, and their views on this particular proposal. I said at the start that I was a first amendment type of person: I view the proposal put up by the government and Senator Brandis in the exposure draft as a compromise. I accept that my views are not typical of all those in this place, or indeed all those in this country, in supporting a very strong and almost unlimited commitment to freedom of speech. The problem I have is that those opposite seem to see us as a nation of tribes; as a nation where self-declared leaders of communities—communities defined by race—should somehow should have a special place in the consideration of legislation that any other Australian citizen should not. Every Australian’s view has an equal standing in this place—every Australian’s view, no matter what community they declare themselves to be from; whether it be one or many; and whether or not they declare themselves to be leaders of communities. The elected bodies in this country are the elected representatives of the Australian people. We don’t believe in a corporatist society, or in one where there are a series of tribes where, somehow, some people have more rights than others.

The ALP and the Greens seek to define this as a debate about racism when it is not. It is a debate profoundly about speech, its limits, and the role of governments, politicians and judges in limiting the rights of our fellow citizens to express ideas. How is it our role to empower certain people in Australia, in this case judges under the current law, to determine whether another opinion is arrived at or expressed in good faith? That is the current provision in section 18D of the Racial Discrimination Act. What happened to Andrew Bolt was that a court said that his opinion was not expressed in good faith. It did not just ban the expression of that opinion; it banned its re-publication. It had to declare an Orwellian moment—that it never happened.

The point being that, of all those in this place, it was once the centre and the left of Australian politics who campaigned against censorship, yet it is the left of Australian politics who are now its greatest advocates.
Those opposite are confused between legality and licence. To not make activities illegal is not to approve of them. The great problem with speech being banned is it denies people—community leaders, as Senator Wong pointed out, and people like me, you, and others in this chamber; it denies us the opportunity to repudiate. Some speech should be repudiated. Some speech should be humiliated. Some speech should be ridiculed. But by banning it, it goes underground. In this technological world, where we cannot control the sources of news, that threat is even greater than when these laws were first passed just under two decades ago.

Those opposite confuse this with defamation law. It is an attempt to fudge the point, because defamation law often deals with issues and imputations of fact, not opinion. But this law can ban opinion. They ask why we are concerned that one journalist who they say is powerful had their opinion banned. I say, the idea that a court said that an article had to be stripped from a major newspaper’s website, and banned the expression of an opinion, is something we should all be concerned about. I remember the days when we would all have been concerned about that.

The most extreme left-wing activist lawyer in the United States’s ACLU would not tolerate this legislation. It shows how far the Labor Party and the Greens have moved from respect for basic individual rights for this law to even be considered, to say nothing of the laws proposed by the former Attorney-General Nicola Roxon which were going to expand the grounds for legal action of one citizen against another to an almost limitless number. Again, she confused our role of setting the boundaries as to what is illegal with regulating and proscribing the expression of opinion and expression of ideas.

I am proud to say I know Andrew Bolt. I would not necessarily describe him as a friend, only because I do not know him that well. The vilification to which he has been subjected by the professional left in this country over the last two years and the use of the law to ban him from expressing his opinion has been unprecedented. It is unprecedented in Australia to ban people from expressing political opinions. I know Andrew, and he does not have a racist bone in his body. But those opposite who disagree seek to use the law to suppress his views.

More harm was done to the views of those who oppose racism by this case and the ruling by Justice Bromberg that a member of the victim group shall be the standard by which racism is measured. So there was no arbitrary test that any Australian could be certain of to know when their opinion would be legal and when it would not be legal. More damage was done by the professional left activists and the legal censors who think it is their right to regulate speech in Australia. While I have always opposed these laws, they were not on the public agenda until for the first time the court was going to ban the expression of opinion. We were going to censor newspapers—and we did, because republication of Andrew Bolt’s views was banned.

I was invited a couple of years ago to give a speech to the Executive Council of Australian Jewry on this point. I know Colin Rubenstein and Jeremy Jones. I know their work against racism is profound. I know they have done a lot of good work, but I respectfully disagree with them on these laws. I cannot recount all of my reasons in the time available today. But one is that in places where these laws exist, particularly in the old world of Europe where there are speech codes, there are things such as, for example, the armoured personnel carriers that I saw outside the new synagogue in Berlin just over a decade ago. They are the places with all the racial problems. It is the new world—such as Canada, which has recently repealed some of these laws, Australia, New Zealand and the United States—which has provided a home, refuge and sanctuary for people from all around the world. In particular, the communities that have been oppressed in those countries of Europe have often found refuge in the country with the freest speech on earth—and that is the United States. I have faith in my fellow citizens that we will debate and come to the right resolution. Those opposite, sadly, do not. I do not know where it went.

That is a very powerful speech by our good friend Scott Ryan (Liberal Senator for Victoria).

I find it quite ironic that the opposition and the media have been challenging the government to name any community leader who has come out in favour of the changes to 18c. It seems to me that the leadership of the largest Australian community group has done just that. The elected government of the Commonwealth of Australia is the leadership of the largest community group in the country – also the only community group that actually enjoys widespread legitimacy.

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100 Responses to Scott Ryan on 18c

  1. pete m

    It is appalling of these so called leaders to hide behind a speech law instead of being honest, open and courageous to say we will defend ourselves and all people of good conscious will do as well.

    This is about speech. Not violence, not discrimination etc.

    Why are not the lessons of history learned?

  2. stackja

    Again I do not remember all this fuss about free speech until recently. Vigorous debate existed in the 1950s without any need for laws. Menzies was called names but accepted it as part of the political world he chose.

  3. Ant

    “They seem to view our rights, particularly our right to speech and our right to discuss—our right to participate in democracy and in a free flow of ideas—as coming to us via a licence from politicians or judges.”

    They have same attitude to the money we earn, too. A tax increase is a “budget saving”. Every cent you make belongs to them, and they’re the ones who determine how much of it you can keep.

    The left are truly diabolical.

  4. Senile Old Guy

    It seems to me that the leadership of the largest Australian community group has done just that. The elected government of the Commonwealth of Australia is the leadership of the largest community group in the country – also the only community group that actually enjoys widespread legitimacy.

    Spot on. And it is the “community group” that speaks for those who don’t want to be labelled as part of any particular community group. And that is one fundamental thing that opponents of this bill do not get. I don’t want to have my views labelled as part of the “senile old white guy” group. Nor do I want some “sowg” group “representing” what they think my views are or should be. This is a fundamental attack on my freedom to present my own views.

  5. twostix

    The problem I have is that those opposite seem to see us as a nation of tribes; as a nation where self-declared leaders of communities—communities defined by race—should somehow should have a special place in the consideration of legislation that any other Australian citizen should not.

    Case closed.

  6. twostix

    The left are absolutely obsessed with race, with implementing laws which are by definition racist, with dividing nations up along race lines and placing themselves as grand overseer over the warring factions they’ve created below.

    Then they squeal that we need laws to prevent people from people talking about it.

  7. hammy

    What a disgraceful speech – full of dog-whistling anti-minority hatred. This man is hiding under the umbrella of Parliamentary privilege (justifiably known as the Coward’s Castle).

    Australia is the most racist country in the world. Something has to be done to correct this. Not all aborigines can be expected to stand up to hatred the way Warren Mundine and the heroic Adam Goodes have done.

  8. Infidel Tiger

    Plain packaging – smoking went up.
    Alcopops tax – spirit consumption up.
    Section 18c – are we sure this hasn’t led to an increase in vilification?

  9. Joe Goodacre

    I find it quite ironic that the opposition and the media have been challenging the government to name any community leader who has come out in favour of the changes to 18c. It seems to me that the leadership of the largest Australian community group has done just that. The elected government of the Commonwealth of Australia is the leadership of the largest community group in the country – also the only community group that actually enjoys widespread legitimacy.

    Agreed.

  10. Senile Old Guy

    Hammy, you’re a riot.

  11. .

    Australia is the most racist country in the world.

    Are you sure black people are welcome in Russia? You numpty.

  12. Gibbo

    Strange how the only dog hearing the whistling is you Hammy.
    Thank you for proving the entire point of that speech in a couple of sentences.

  13. Gab

    Thanks, Hammy. I wasn’t going to read it but after your comments I will :)

  14. Joe Goodacre

    hammy,

    Do you think that making racist speech illegal will stop racist thoughts?

  15. twostix

    Australia is the most racist country in the world.

    lol

  16. Ant

    Here, Ham, looks like you need some of this.

  17. harrys on the boat

    Hammy’s back to his best. Bravo.

    I wish you would post this comedy gold over at crikey or the drum. The hero worship you’d receive would make even Alene Composta blush.

  18. cuckoo

    Absolutely outstanding speech. Of course, it won’t go ‘viral’ like Scott Ludlum’s verbal bowel movement.

  19. Liv

    “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.

    ~ Hall

    And that is democracy in action.

  20. PeterM

    This speech has gone some way to restoring my faith in those elected to govern this nation.

    @Hammy – If you were pork, you would be cured of your ills.

  21. Greg

    The video of the speech is here

  22. Tom

    The most dangerous and frightening evil we face is the attempt by the modern left — which is vicious inversion of the traditional left, which fought for freedom — to substitute individual rights under centuries of common law with a hierarchy of group rights. It is the foundation for the incoherent mob behaviour we saw last weekend. It is not rational. It demands collective submission to the mob. It demonises the aspiration for individual liberty on which Western civilisation was built and regards the unregulated individual as the enemy. It is a road map for a return to the terror we saw in 1930s Europe.

    Because the left are fighting this war as an irrational battle for the ascendancy of their tribe, there is no alternative but to give the left what their neurotic mission is driving them towards: castration and defeat.

  23. Gab

    Repeal all RDAs and shut down the AHRC.

  24. johanna

    Well said, that man. Thanks for posting this inspiring speech.

    I was particulalrly impressed by the way he nailed all those self-appointed “community leaders” who presume to tell us what we should think or say – and so politely, too!

    And above all, that freedom is not granted by executive fiat or by institutions – on the contrary, it is circumscribed by them.

    Awesome.

  25. Gab

    The problem I have is that those opposite seem to see us as a nation of tribes; as a nation where self-declared leaders of communities—communities defined by race—should somehow should have a special place in the consideration of legislation that any other Australian citizen should not.

    Hear hear.

    The point being that, of all those in this place, it was once the centre and the left of Australian politics who campaigned against censorship, yet it is the left of Australian politics who are now its greatest advocates.

    There are just too many gems in his speech.

    I wonder who that annoying harper was in the background trying to interrupt Scott’s oratory.

    Forget about the RDA and Australia being racist country, they need a lesson in manners. When someone is speaking, don’t interrupt, ffs.

  26. Louis Hissink

    Judge Napolitano discusses natural rights etc as applied to the US here.

    It’s worth watching the whole address – Napolitano is the quintessential New Jersey Italian – a with a great sense of humour too.

    In a nutshell, he argues that freedom of speech predates government in that it’s a natural right.

    Fair enough but where did that idea spring from? And it is possible to have this right in the absence of religion? If we accept we are a Judaean-Christian culture, then freedom of speech is indeed a natural right, and government has no right to abridge it whatsoever.

    It is also linked to an earlier observation made by the Chinese about how the West achieved its wealth and standard of living the rest long for – it was the West’s Christian heritage that explains it, according to the Chinese Communists, hence their move towards capitalism.

    But do watch Napolitano.

  27. arthur

    What a breath of fresh air. I ask that Senator Ryan move to Queensland so that i may vote for him myself.

  28. cohenite

    hammy, I usually think you are spot on but I must disagree with you about this:

    Australia is the most racist country in the world

    I have it on good authority that Mongolia is actually the most racist country in the world.

  29. Gab

    Thanks for posting that video, Greg. I see – yet again – that the Hansard transcript is loosely based on what Scott actually said.

  30. Shauno

    Hammy ever been to India mate. Go and check out the caste system there for a bit racism education.

  31. H B Bear

    Ant at 1:41 pm

    “They seem to view our rights, particularly our right to speech and our right to discuss—our right to participate in democracy and in a free flow of ideas—as coming to us via a licence from politicians or judges.”

    Exactly – the notion that we have people like KD Wrong, Nanny Roxon, the Nuclear Milkman and Mind Ma’ Tea determining what can and cannot be said by people is more offensive than anything that might be said itself.

  32. gabrianga

    Sorry Hammy. Aborigines such as Galarrwuy Yunupingu, Jacob Nayanggul, Wesley Lanhupuy, Stan Tipiloura .Wandjuk and Roy Marika, Silas Marangulla and others of their time have all stood up to hatred and harsh criticism long before anyone ever heard of Mundine or the “heroic” Goodes.

    I knew and worked with all these men over many years and ,in my opinion, compared to them neither Mundine nor Goodes would have a clue about what “racism” really but unlike our present day “warriors” these guys stood up for themselves and their people.

  33. Roger

    I condemn the bigot, but I celebrate the rights of every citizen.

    Now, that’s what George should have said.

  34. twostix

    Exactly – the notion that we have people like KD Wrong, Nanny Roxon, the Nuclear Milkman and Mind Ma’ Tea determining what can and cannot be said by people is more offensive than anything that might be said itself.

    We just had three years Labor using the power of government to openly vilify and harrass private individuals. I will not be lectured on bigotry by those people.

  35. johanna

    Just want to reiterate what I said on previous threads – the sections of the Jewish community who are deploring this move and hanging supporters like Andrew Bolt out to dry ought to be ashamed of themselves. I cannot understand why they are siding with people who openly support the destruction of Israel on this issue.

    Their obsession with Holocaust deniers (who are a pathetic and tiny minority in Australia) to the exclusion of any other consideration is a sad reflection on their judgement. To support the assassination of free speech, and its defenders, in this context is like wanting to kill a person because they have a tiny pimple on their arse.

  36. Roger

    an earlier observation made by the Chinese about how the West achieved its wealth and standard of living the rest long for – it was the West’s Christian heritage that explains it, according to the Chinese Communists, hence their move towards capitalism.

    That’s a non sequitur, Louis – the Chinese should have first moved towards Christianity (of course, they have been, but not officially). South Korea is a good example in modern times – rise of Christianity linked to rise of prosperity and democracy. Conversely, the decline of Western economies is linked to the decline of Christianity in them and the rise of the ersatz religion Socialism, which relies on coercive, heteronomous law rather than autonomous ethical imperative to effect the social morality which undergirds economic prosperity and general happiness.

  37. Toiling Mass

    Ha – Hammy brings in the ‘dog whistle’ dog whistle.

  38. Zatara

    “I will defend the right of someone to speak, but that does not entail and should not be confused with the idea that I should resource them to speak.”

    Solid gold

    One hopes to hear it again in the announcement of the de-funding of the ABC.

  39. tgs

    Brilliant speech.

    Also, top form from hammy. Great stuff.

  40. Ellen of Tasmania

    I’m sorry the Senate wasn’t packed to the rafters to hear that. I hope the Libs put it up on their web site. It deserves to be heard widely and the left should hang their collective little heads in shame.

  41. .

    South Korea is a good example in modern times – rise of Christianity linked to rise of prosperity and democracy.

    No, it is not linked to it at all. I’m not anti Christian but you’re going to have to do some real research to prove their high worker productivity is because of a rising number of Jesus worshipers.

  42. Tintarella di Luna

    It seems to me that the leadership of the largest Australian community group has done just that. The elected government of the Commonwealth of Australia is the leadership of the largest community group in the country – also the only community group that actually enjoys widespread legitimacy.

    Professor Davidson that is one of the most powerful statements I have read in a long time. It shows a clear-eyed view of what has been lost in the fog of political correctness that has settled on our polity narrowing our focus and making us fearful to speak reason and logic with confidence and clarity. Thanks for putting up Senator Scott Ryan’s address.

  43. Tintarella di Luna

    “They seem to view our rights, particularly our right to speech and our right to discuss—our right to participate in democracy and in a free flow of ideas—as coming to us via a licence from politicians or judges.”

    Apparently our children at school are being taught that our human rights come from the United Nations. – Totalitarian bastards!

  44. Andrew

    There was a good reason why Scott Ryan was number 1 on my Senate ballot paper only a few months ago.

  45. Percy

    Outstanding work by the Senator. Any chance we can make the link to the speech a liberty quote Sinc?

  46. Tintarella di Luna

    Repeal all RDAs and shut down the AHRC.

    That would make a good placard

  47. J.H.

    A very well thought out and presented speech by Senator Ryan.

    How far the left have fallen. But that is the fate of the Socialists. The further they remove themselves from liberal values, the more Authoritarian they become.

    You would think that a person like Penny Wong would know better. You would think that she would be the first to hang her head and admit the mistake, that oppression and censorship is wrong, that those who must hide their true selves within society, are those who are truly offended against.

    Yet she will stand in the senate and oppose what she knows in her heart of hearts she should defend.

  48. Pedro

    Yes, good stuff and all, but it has to be said Brandis started with a poor argument for his amendment. Fancy saying the most pointless thing of all.

  49. Cato the Elder

    I was about to go on a rant against Hammy. Then I read his profile:

    I strongly believe in a collectivist culture, and know that capitalism has caused immeasurable harm to mankind. I strongly believe socialism will have a surging comeback after recovering from the disaster that Reagan forced illegally onto the blessed USSR.

    He’s either a piss-take, or in need of serious medical intervention. In either case, not worth the effort of a rant.

  50. Squirrel

    “They seem to think that, somehow, the laws in this place determine what we are allowed and not allowed to say. That is a profound misrepresentation of our constitutional and legal history.”

    It is also a profound misunderstanding of what happens in the everyday real world, beyond the realms of causes celebres, with lawyers at twenty paces, and cosseted bureaucrats combing over other people’s words with a fine tooth comb.

    “There is a reason why the Greens and the ALP hate the Institute of Public Affairs—it is because it is not part of their public sector mentality. It challenges the precepts that they put up, and it cannot be bowed by the fact that it is not on the public sector drip, the way they wish all civil society was.”

    This is the nub of it, and the broader issue at stake in this tussle – many more such skirmishes and battles to come, I imagine (and hope).

  51. Notafan

    That was fantastic,
    When I was a kid we were taught
    Sticks and stones will break your bones
    But names will never hurt you,
    Everybody has prejudices, it’s part of the human condition, and for the main is self protection.
    With the exception of the Jewish community a lot of this is linked to
    Don’t you dare question us about how we spend your money.

  52. oldsalt

    My wife is a nurse in an emergency ward, where they get racist abuse from drunk blackfellers quite often and security steps in quickly. Mostly, they couldn’t care less and regard it as part of the job. It can be intimidating for some women but in the end its about power, who has it and who doesn’t. And the blackfellers down south don’t. It was different in the communities, where a racial spray can mean that an important person wants you out of the community and out of a job. The boot’s on the other foot, and neck, blackfellas have power. I once copped a spray of abuse on Groote replete with credible threat to have me banned from the island if I didn’t give the man what he wanted. Any racist abuse can presage such an event, you never know what’s going on behind your back. The effect is to make you feel like a non citizen with no rights. Again, the power imbalance most southerners are used to is reversed. The old law never protected the nurses and Brandis’ new version, with its definition of intimidation as purely physical, won’t either.

  53. johanna

    Here are the people that “Jewish community organisations” are getting into bed with.

  54. Mater

    Oldsalt
    I’m having real trouble deciphering your post but your words from the OT are illuminating.

    These white skin indigenous show the telltale signs of an inherited culture of dispossession, discrimination, lack of education, unemployment, hopelessness and alcohol abuse. Their kids need, just as much as dark skin indigenous kids, positive discrimination to give them a leg up up and outta the legacy of invasion and dispossession. Just because an indigenous person looks white doesn’t mean they haven’t come from a bad place, haven’t suffered the same legacy of systemic racism, aren’t entitled to the full range of measures that members of their families with darker skin rightly have access to. Jeez, for people who claim to be well educated some of you can be pretty dumb. Or bigoted.

    Many Australian kids suffer this inherited culture, regardless of their DNA. Shouldn’t our assistance be based on need rather than breed?

  55. He’s either a piss-take, or in need of serious medical intervention. In either case, not worth the effort of a rant.

    Cato, Hammy’s a computer program. The algorithm is based on current levels of contribution to each Cat post, and randomly selects appropriate lefty buzzwords and puts them in something resembling a coherent sentence.

    Occasionally it slips up and you get:

    Collectivised breasts are the obvious solution to the 18C crisis. Abbott is a bigoted argle /.. /.. Start Windows normally

  56. tgs

    That’s a non sequitur, Louis – the Chinese should have first moved towards Christianity (of course, they have been, but not officially). South Korea is a good example in modern times – rise of Christianity linked to rise of prosperity and democracy. Conversely, the decline of Western economies is linked to the decline of Christianity in them and the rise of the ersatz religion Socialism, which relies on coercive, heteronomous law rather than autonomous ethical imperative to effect the social morality which undergirds economic prosperity and general happiness.

    This is almost as funny as hammy’s contribution.

    The idea that economic growth is linked to the prevalence of a particular religion within society is absolutely ludicrous.

    Liberal democracy based on property rights, the rule of law and inalienable human rights like free speech are important to economic growth. Making sure everybody talks to the same magical sky wizard as you do is not. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor even particularly relevant to each other except in a sort of historical, history of western philosophy sort of way.

  57. Natural Instinct

    Not all aborigines can be expected to stand up to hatred the way Warren Mundine and the heroic Adam Goodes have done.

    I am loathe to waste time responding to Hammy at 1:50pm. Perhaps he is just trolling, looking for a bite. And perhaps what is the point, no argument will change his mind, but still I am forced to put pen to paper…

    1.0 HERO: A person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities, e.g. a war hero
    1.1 The chief male character in a book, play, or film, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize: the hero of Kipling’s story
    1.2( In mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities and often semi-divine origin, in particular one whose exploits were the subject of ancient Greek myths.

    To call a professional football player who raised an arm (at no danger to himself physically or psychologically) and pointed at a fan (child and female) who screamed abuse at him, a hero is obscene. It devalues the language, and us.
    But like most of the left, Hammy only proves that Orwell’s warnings were justified. Without constant vigilance and immediate, and repeated, contradiction, the Left will remake the language into a nest of lies and thus the world in which we live into a mythical wonderland where nothing is “true” and “absolute”.
    .
    P.S. I bet that the ABC will not find room to broadcast, comment, or critique this speech, even though it has 4 radio networks (Local, National, FM, JJJ), 4 TV networks (1, 2, 24, Australia) and a multitude of web sites. They will ignore it and let it sink quietly out of sight, e.g. “anyone interested in talking about the Budget session”,

  58. mizaris

    the heroic Adam Goodes

    Seriously!!!!!!! Heroic!!!????? Bullying a 13 year old girl is HEROIC!!!!

    Fucking biggest load of codswallop bullshit I’ve ever read – is this guy for real????

  59. mizaris

    Goodes is just another bloody coconut who ought to be grateful for all the advantages he’s received from whitey tax payers.

  60. Fucking biggest load of codswallop bullshit I’ve ever read – is this guy for real????

    In short – no.

  61. Roger

    Liberal democracy based on property rights, the rule of law and inalienable human rights like free speech are important to economic growth

    And the development of all of those, tgs, is linked to Christianity’s role in western history.
    This is why those aspects of free societies they are much harder to make stick in non-Christian cultures. Think about it and get back to me.

  62. Roger

    After all, even the Chinese realised it, tgs!
    They aren’t dumb, you know.
    I can suggest a reading list if you’re really interested.

  63. None

    Repeal all RDAs and shut down the AHRC.

    Yep

  64. tgs

    And the development of all of those, tgs, is linked to Christianity’s role in western history.

    The two are not mutually exclusive, nor even particularly relevant to each other except in a sort of historical, history of western philosophy sort of way.

    If you think the Chinese are all secretly converting to Christianity to make their country more capitalistic you’re even stupider than hammy. At least he knows how to make people laugh!

  65. Roger

    It’s not just about worker productivity, dot, it’s about the cultural and moral settings of a society which encourage and reward diligent work and restraint of consumption and thus ensure savings are laid away secure and are available for reinvestment in the means of production at a favourable interest rate. The German sociologist Max Weber noted the connection between the ethos of Protestant Christianity and societal prosperity more than 100 years ago. Of course, a similar ethos can exist outside of the Christian orbit, e.g. Japan, but such examples almost always have religious sanction. When the religious imperative to restraint of consumption is not present, societies will proceed to consume all their wealth to the point of indebtedness and self-inflicted poverty, the path the US is presently on. All of this is quite a challenge, naturally, to modern Western societies whose economic basis is founded on consumption. We ignore the challenge at our peril.

  66. tgs

    To clarify, I’m aware that the number of people identifying as Christian is increasing in China. To claim that this is the cause of the country becoming more capitalistic, and not say a symptom (i.e. caused be increased trade and cultural contact with the rest of the world), is drawing a very long bow indeed, imo.

  67. oldsalt

    No Mater, in the south there should be special help for both white and dark skin indig both of whom have suffered the legacies of dispossession and discrimination . The extent of the harm done to each individual won’t always be quantifiable in the manner you seem to require. And in the north there should be special protection in law for non indig who live/work in communities where a reverse power equation exists and racial abuse can be more intimidating and career threatening than it is in the south.

  68. tgs

    When the religious imperative to restraint of consumption is not present, societies will proceed to consume all their wealth to the point of indebtedness and self-inflicted poverty, the path the US is presently on.

    Haha, ok then champ.

    No point discussing this further with you.

  69. Tel

    …societies will proceed to consume all their wealth…

    Societies don’t consume wealth, individuals do.

  70. oldsalt

    Gabrianga, you can take Galarrwuy out of that esteemed group. By ‘his people’ do you mean the mob who live in tents behind his Ski Beach mansion? I first met him on Ski Beach where he was handing out white cans to kids spearing mullet. He was in business with my then employer, who brought turtles for him and in exchange was given girls. Don’t ask me how young they were because I was too young and naive myself to even think of those things. The Gove police could tell you are few other things.

  71. Johno

    Scott Ryan is a rare creature in the Victorian LiberalParty.

    He’s actually a liberal and doesn’t care who knows it.

  72. hammy

    Scott Ryan is a rare creature in the Victorian LiberalParty.

    <img src="data:image/png;base64,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

    /z9LpRn7jwsXVsF7P0cE76P3csZ0PjmmVZlmX0ixnm9Fr+EGVpjpgiJogRYhvTNqYRYtT9I

    /3QwayZxY00auVJiHn5C+W/djBLEBPEBPME8xQx7elLhnkniRPEFLGTxPTpYRhO7n/PF1poyBGjJM4R4zyjbxdhFmFGI0DfPZ3YOkmcYJ4jdjqdVqs17QRt8jKa/B839GyV/afZ6WRJ0p2+ta0x6n+UpZ0k7iQx/dckSej/xnGM5XxtIcz0ZdM0pb9IEdtpnCD2rs+kp/VOzdShKv+pXL1li/OsHUc0m+XvJFlK/cmyjPow3rcsxyyf8MOi2/+mYKbO0rMc58XjT5tGiPlMI0+jV377dtjJEcfGxubw3CjXbTk1+fhHT215itgOO4jYaDQwxziM8jSb6/HbMqBVGmVpKwqTYsvCSU/

  73. Gab

    For heaven’s sake, Hammy, do use http://tinyurl.com/ in future, please.

  74. Uh oh. Hammy’s software is acting up again.

    Have you tried switching him off, and then switching him on again?

  75. Cato the Elder

    Collectivised breasts are the obvious solution to the 18C crisis. Abbott is a bigoted argle /.. /.. Start Windows normally

    LOL. :)

  76. John Mc

    If Christianity and capitalism emerge both strongly and in unison in China, I give it a good chance of being the next guiding light of humanity. The indicator will be what it starts doing about democracy.

  77. Cato the Elder

    Or just leaving him off

  78. whyisitso

    Looks like Hammy’s got himself a Mac.

  79. Baldrick

    Hammy needs rebooting … in the groin.

  80. johanna

    Thanks, oldsalt. The biggest “gap” is the gap between what Aboriginal “leaders” tell us and what is happening on the ground.

    Time and time again these “leaders” have ripped off taxpayers and their own people. Just look at “Sugar Ray” Robinson, who was on the highest level of Aboriginal advisory bodies, with lots of taxpayer funded flights and accommodation – I used to see him entertaining the local powerbrokers on the taxpayer tab here in Canberra. He was eventually convicted of minor fraud (shades of Craig Thomson). Let’s just say (in the interest of Sinc not getting sued) that Robinson only got done for a fraction of what he actually stole.

  81. Boambee John

    “Australia is the most racist country in the world.”

    For the sake of their sanity, asylum seekers from non-white ethnic groups must be spared this racism, and sent somewhere more compatible with their needs. Help Tony A stop the boats!

    You know it makes sense //sarc//

  82. boy on a bike

    Australia is the most racist country in the world.

    Nah. Zimbabwe.

  83. Leigh Lowe

    Post #1241833 at 9:10 PM
    That is the most coherent utterance to issue from the Hamster in a long time.

  84. Tintarella di Luna

    He’s either a piss-take, or in need of serious medical intervention. In either case, not worth the effort of a rant.

    Cato, Hammy’s a computer program. The algorithm is based on current levels of contribution to each Cat post, and randomly selects appropriate lefty buzzwords and puts them in something resembling a coherent sentence.

    Occasionally it slips up and you get:

    Collectivised breasts are the obvious solution to the 18C crisis. Abbott is a bigoted argle /.. /.. Start Windows normally

    Philippa you win!

  85. Leigh Lowe

    Section 18c – are we sure this hasn’t led to an increase in vilification?

    Shut ya fat gob ya stripey c… …… oops, maybe you’re right.

  86. Token

    the heroic Adam Goodes

    Seriously!!!!!!! Heroic!!!????? Bullying a 13 year old girl is HEROIC!!!!

    The ridiculously overpaid Triggs decided to lay the boot into the girl yesterday on their ABC.

    Remember when the left were big on protecting minors from being held to account like adults? That was so 20th century.

    Today every lefty is queing up to demonise a girl who was illegally detained and questioned for 2 hours without a guardian being present. Remember this if you are taking to an UN-Civil NON-Libertarian lefty.

  87. Token

    Australia is the most racist country in the world.

    Ask an Indian who has lived in Malaysia what he / she thinks about that claim. If they are not around, ask a Chinese Malay.

  88. Alf

    Australia is the most racist country in the world

    That’s a big call Hammy, sadly there’s racism pretty much everywhere.

  89. Andrew

    Hammy’s trolling is getting worse by the day…it really is embarrassing.

  90. Cato the Elder

    No, it’s sometimes funny, sometimes pathetic and sometimes both

  91. Cato the Elder

    Alf

    I sometimes like to see how the other side thinks but your link is invalid.

  92. Yohan

    What an excellent and articulate speech. Perhaps he should be giving George ‘lets be bigots’ Brandis some lessons in political soapbox talk.

  93. The Pugilist

    That man is one of the most deserving of the title ‘the Honourable’…I’ve long been a Senator Scott Ryan fan.

  94. Senile Old Guy

    When the religious imperative to restraint of consumption is not present, societies will proceed to consume all their wealth to the point of indebtedness and self-inflicted poverty, the path the US is presently on.

    That would be the US that identifies more strongly as christian that most other western countries. There seem to be gaps in your argument here.

  95. james

    Just want to reiterate what I said on previous threads – the sections of the Jewish community who are deploring this move and hanging supporters like Andrew Bolt out to dry ought to be ashamed of themselves. I cannot understand why they are siding with people who openly support the destruction of Israel on this issue.

    Most Jewish Australians I have known were brought up with bedtime stories about evil blue eyed demons that are out to get them.

    Jewish community leaders as a whole seem to feel safer in a society where people are unable to say anything bad about Jews.

    The silence from the more sensible members of that community is telling, no-one wants to be seen to be working against the interests of the tribe.

    Even the otherwise commendable Josh F on the Bolt Report felt the need to qualify his opposition to 18C by saying that of COURSE he was against anti-free speech laws, as long as people questioning the Holocaust is banned.

    Face it people, there are a couple of highly influential communities in Australia who as a whole feel highly threatened by the very idea of freedom of speech.

    They don’t trust us, their neighbours, not to charge around with pitchforks and burning torches every time an idiot questions the gas chambers or a demagogue tries some rabble rousing.

    Considering that my ancestors fought AGAINST Germany in WW2 I find this grossly insulting and offensive.

    I have always supported Israel and still do, but this support is one hell of a lot less enthusiastic than it once was.

  96. james

    Cato, Hammy’s a computer program. The algorithm is based on current levels of contribution to each Cat post, and randomly selects appropriate lefty buzzwords and puts them in something resembling a coherent sentence.

    Occasionally it slips up and you get:

    Since you are probably about to call me a Nazi again Phillipa, I might as well say that this is the best response to Hammy ever.

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