Diplomacy – US style

Pathetic

 

This really is pathetic and sad. I imagine former US Secretaries of State such as Thomas Jefferson, John Marshall, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, William H. Seward, Cordell Hull, George Marshall, Dean Acheson, John Dulles and Dean Rusk will be rolling in their graves at the degradation of the Department of State. How embarrassing. Diplomacy is not the subject of selfies and tweets. Psaki really has no idea of the seriousness of the situation in Ukraine and the Crimea. I guess this is what happens when teenagers are appointed to senior State department positions.

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Samuel J has an economics background and is a part-time consultant
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144 Responses to Diplomacy – US style

  1. stackja

    I guess this is what happens when teenagers are appointed to senior State department positions.

    And led by a teenage-mind President.

  2. tgs

    Yeah, absolutely not appropriate.

    Trivialises a very serious situation and what is appearing more and more to be a pretty significant foreign policy failure on behalf of the Obama administration.

  3. Greigoz

    These are Obama’s ‘reset’ warriors who were hand picked to ‘stare down’ Russia. Putin mustn’t be able to believe his luck.

  4. Bruce of Newcastle

    I liked when Russia swallowed Crimea then vetoed the Security Council vote, Samantha Power went over to the Russian and gave him a piece of her mind. ‘If you do not withdraw I will ‘scold you some more‘.

    Obama needs more paint for his red lines as he’s running out.

  5. Ant

    Where’s that ‘RESET’ button gone?

    It worked a treat last time.

    It’s beyond laughable how the Obama administration can be so destructive, wasteful, corrupt, malevolent and juvenile all at the same time.

    And it’s beyond tragic how they get away with it without barely raising an eyebrow in the American mainstream media, when they brutalised the former Bush administration at every single turn.

  6. cuckoo

    And she isn’t even doing a decent head-tilt! Wars have been started by less.

  7. Cold-Hands

    “Speak softly, and carry a big stick.” used be the foreign policy of the USA. Obama has done much to whittle away at the stick, but it is through inadequacy of judgement and leadership that has resulted in an impotent and ineffectual America. The Chinese are taking notes as are the Iranians. Unfortunately the MSM are more interested in the latest Kardashian baby or diet or dress to worry that their President is incompetent.

  8. Vasily

    Samuel J.,
    Thank you for raising the issue, but I do not think that John Dulles is necessarily an example of sober foreign policy to invoke in light of present State Dept/CIA manufacured Ukrainian crisis. He supported expansion of US interventionism abroad against the stated policy of US Congress. This led to acts like installation of Shah of Iran at the request of the British who resented the nationalization of Anglo-Iranian Oil (therefore creating major enemy for US for decades to come and still problematic to region’s stability) and manipulating French withdrawal from Vietnam, setting up the power vacuum which led to war a decade later – a war fought not by Dulles’s class of men, of course, but by poor men who could not get an exemption or deferment by going to college. But a very venal act was his implication in the 1954 CIA coup against Guzman of Guatemala, devised by his CIA chief brother Allen. Guzman was duly elected leader whose land reforms threatened the interests of the American owned United Fruit Company, in which both brothers had significant capital invested. Next to that pictures by the idiot above are innocuous – more concern is that they continue tradition of Dulles and foster (sic!) wars by upsetting finely balanced local geo-political scenarios they understand little to nothing of. Now they have emboldened the Ukrainian Fascists who they have installed on US puppet government who invoke Stepan Bandera as their hero, bringing forth inevitable Russian military build up on Ukrainian border. Well done, Ms Nuland, Sen. McCain and Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama for unleashing ancient hatreds!

  9. I’m struggling with this. How the heck can the USA come back from such a decline?

    This photo sends a much deeper message about the Obama administration. Indisputably the worst president ever (daylight second).

    This was all obvious prior to the last presidential election. Thus the USA is going to get what it deserves.
    Tragic.

  10. Vasily displays the gaps in the Soviet education system.

  11. Eyrie

    Steve at the Pub,
    yep the current US administration is going to get a LOT of people killed.

  12. Gab

    How jejune and how the mighty have fallen. Obama and the spokeschild for the United States Department of State believe they can change Putin’s mind by running a version of the “get Kony” social media campaign. Unbelievable.

  13. Roberto

    And the sign isn’t even printed, but hand-written. Juvenile and unprofessional.

  14. So how does that photo work?
    “Two Million ‘likes’ before Monday, and Putin’s gotta take his troops home”?

  15. Vasily

    But Samuel, I think you are right about the great John Quincy Adams rolling in his grave at present. Here is what he thought about the prospect of American interventionism abroad and what it would do to the spirit of his country:

    “And now, friends and countrymen, if the wise and learned philosophers of the elder world, the first observers of nutation and aberration, the discoverers of maddening ether and invisible planets, the inventors of Congreve rockets and Shrapnel shells, should find their hearts disposed to enquire what has America done for the benefit of mankind? Let our answer be this: America, with the same voice which spoke herself into existence as a nation, proclaimed to mankind the inextinguishable rights of human nature, and the only lawful foundations of government. America, in the assembly of nations, since her admission among them, has invariably, though often fruitlessly, held forth to them the hand of honest friendship, of equal freedom, of generous reciprocity. She has uniformly spoken among them, though often to heedless and often to disdainful ears, the language of equal liberty, of equal justice, and of equal rights. She has, in the lapse of nearly half a century, without a single exception, respected the independence of other nations while asserting and maintaining her own. She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama the European world, will be contests of inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force…. She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit….”
    John Quincy Adams, 1821

  16. Vasily

    Steve, please advise me where I am wrong and I will correct. it is true, I studied American history in Soviet university, but even though officially Communist my professors were not ignorant or mere propagandists.

  17. Gab

    I’m not convinced Obama actually wants to stop Putin, I mean he did lovingly whisper to Putin that he’d have “more flexibility” in his second term as President.

  18. Vasily is trying a moral equivalence trick.

    Guatamalan internal scrapping is about as geopolitically important as Samoan villages fighting over whose pigs trampled the corn patch.

  19. I’m not convinced Obama actually wants to stop Putin,

    Obama is out of his depth, he hasn’t a clue. He wishes he could shut his eyes & it’d all go away.

    He has no idea what to do.
    He has no idea why he is supposed to do something.

    Worst.president.ever.

  20. Vasily

    Moral equivalence? No, moral principle, Steve.
    The principle Adams teaches – respect sovereign nation’s affairs.

  21. Obama is the dickhead who made a cluster-fark of commenting on a police raid, resulting in him having to eat crow & invite a white cop & black professor to the White House lawn to (yuck) drink beer.

  22. stackja

    Vasily
    #1243870, posted on March 29, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    FDR/Truman/Dean Acheson created problems too. But they were Democrats.

  23. Adams’ ideas haven’t been followed by the USA for any more than about 10 minutes after independence Vasily. Do try to keep up.

    Christ, it is as if you’d prefer arseholes like the Russians to be the big dog on the patch, instead of the democratic & free hand of the USA.

  24. stackja

    Vasily
    #1243908, posted on March 29, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    Like Stalin and Mao?

  25. Moral equivalence? No, moral principle, Steve.
    The principle Adams teaches – respect sovereign nation’s affairs.

    Go tell that to Putin.

  26. Vasily

    Gab,

    You are missing the real picture. Stop Putin? Did Putin overthrow legal government by inciting a Fascist mob under pretext of democracy? What do you think Putin should do as Russia’s strategic Black Sea naval base falls under NATO/US/EU influence? Play golf?

  27. Talleyrand

    Flexibility means President Obama can move the USA to a position ready for amour a quattre pattes by a Russian bear, a Grand Ayotollah, or a murderous Buffoon from Syria or North Korea. Either orifice will do.

  28. Vasily

    Stalin and Mao were monsters, stackja. Please, I am not a Communist. By the time of my education in 1980s the only Communists were in Western universities. I offer you a different perspective, that is all.

    And Steve, Russia has not invaded a foreign country since Afghanistan. Lesson learned and to be hoped it is never repeated.

  29. We’ll stop Putin alright. Another million or so “likes” to that pix, & he’ll hv to go home. lolz, rofl, etc.

  30. And Steve, Russia has not invaded a foreign country since Afghanistan. Lesson learned and to be hoped it is never repeated.

    That may change by Tuesday.

  31. Vasily

    It is not about Russian domination, Steve, but Russian security, which ever nation has a right to. If you knew history you would understand better. Your comment in regard to US not following Adams only serves to highlight my point.

  32. Vasily, ever heard of a sovereign nation called “Georgia”?

  33. Vasily

    That may change by Tuesday.

    Let us hope and pray not.
    But in massing troops on Ukrainian border, Russia is only responding to provocation.
    NATO has been doing same for 20 years. It was therefore Putin who had to draw a red line somewhere, but unlike Obama he has the fortitude to back it up.

  34. Vasily

    Georgia? Another example of American devised provocation.
    In case you hadn’t noticed we withdrew once strategic defence objectives achieved.

    Now, two can play this game: ever heard of Cyprus?

  35. But in massing troops on Ukrainian border, Russia is only responding to provocation.

    What provocation? Just who is massing troops on the Russian border?
    Pulling a claytons referendum on Crimea is one thing, but sending armoured divisions into Ukraine will take quite some justifying.

  36. JC

    Shut the fuck Vasily, you fascist stooge. No one here is going to fall for that shit.

  37. Russia has not invaded a foreign country since Afghanistan.

    Georgia? In case you hadn’t noticed we withdrew once strategic defence objectives achieved.

    Only one of the above statements can be true. Vasily is lying, until he’s caught out, then starts muddying the waters.

    The Soviets taught him well. But not well enough to do it undetected. tsk tsk tsk.

  38. Vasily

    Claytons referendum? Explain please.

    Steve, please read up on history of NATO expansion in eastern Europe since 1991,all undertaken despite James Baker’s promise to Gorbachev that NATO would not do so.

  39. JC

    I do know some of the history, vasily, you dishonest fascist dick. Ukraine was historically tied to Poland.

    Now fuck off and go down a couple of bottles of vodka.

  40. Vasily

    So, you are saying we didn’t withdraw from Georgia?
    It was supervised by EU monitors for heaven’s sake.
    You are the one who is lying, Steve.

  41. JC

    NATO has always been a defensive pact, vasily, you dick. It was set up to protect liberal democracies from the barbarc commie hordes from the east.

  42. Vasily

    JC,

    Your ignorance is only excelled by your profanity. I so often find the two go together.
    Ukraine is the motherland of the Russian people.
    Look up Vladimir the Great. What was his capital? Kyiv. Thank you!

  43. You are the one who is lying, Steve.

    Vasily, you may continue to be dishonest, that may be the Soviet way, but if you persist with lying, and with verballing, I will not be obliged to treat you as a human.

    The germans didn’t kill enough of you in WW2. That is very clear.

  44. Ponder this Vasily: Just how much better would life have been in Russia for the past 70 years, had the Nazis won world war two?

    A shitload better than it was under the commos, that is for sure.

  45. JC

    More fascist propaganda coming from vasily. Stay the fuck out of other peoples countries, you barbarian.

  46. Vasily

    If NATO is a defensive pact why does it expand eastwards, JC?
    It is an aggressive act against Russia.
    You may not like Russians, but like everyone else we have a right to defend ourselves.
    Do you know the history of Russia? Napoleon? Hitler? How do you expect a nation with that history to react to perceived aggression brought right up to our borders and to territories which are historically, culturally and linguistically Russian? How did you react to Japanese aggression in WWII?

  47. stackja

    Vasily
    #1243927, posted on March 29, 2014 at 1:51 pm
    Stalin and Mao were monsters, stackja.

    On this we can agree.

    Please, I am not a Communist.

    So you say.

  48. JC

    It’s not expanding in a military sense, vasily. It’s expanding because the eastern euro want some protection from the barbaric eastern hordes. They apply for membership. Stop the bullshit.

  49. Vasily

    At least under the Communists we were the architects of our own misery, Steve.
    Russia would never give in to Hitler or the Slavic Fascists who were his allies.
    If you think Russia will ever capitulate to a foreign power you are seriously mistaken.
    Now, you haven’t answered my question about Cyprus…

  50. If NATO is a defensive pact why does it expand eastwards? It is an aggressive act against Russia.

    This will take some explaining. Vasily has gone too far with this particular lie.

  51. If you had to choose to live in the Crimea or in the remainder of the Ukraine, where would you go?

    The rest of the Ukraine is heading down the shithole. The Crimea is going to stabilise and grow.

    Props to Russia for doing what needed to be done to preserve at least some of the place.

  52. Vasily

    stackja, in my world, we accept a person is truthful unless proven otherwise.
    I read Catallaxy because I am a free marketeer.
    There are some Communists in Russia but it is mainly exercise in nostalgia by people who have been buffeted by social-political changes since 1991. Communism is like Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor – it offers you bread in exchange for freedom. There are always people who will fall for that.

  53. Now, you haven’t answered my question about Cyprus…

    I don’t have to. I’m not intersted in a bunch of Russian money-launderers on a bare rock in the Mediterrnean, nor in their Greek houseboys.

    Back to the point, where we are discussing just how much of an asshole nation is Russia?

  54. Vasily

    Steve, I can only say, read the history of the last 20 years.
    Your willful ignorance of it is getting tiresome.
    And please don’t respond to ad hominem arguments like JC.
    They are the last resort of the defeated.

  55. Vasily

    Sorry, I mean offer ad hominem arguments.

  56. Bruce of Newcastle

    but like everyone else we have a right to defend ourselves

    “Ourselves” being Russia plus bits of other peoples’ countries. Very like how Hitler defended Sudetenland.

    How on earth can you say places like South Ossetia and Transdniestr are “ourselves”?

  57. JC

    Who the fuck is going to attack Russia, vasily, you vodka swilling fascist dick. That ended when nukes came into existence.

  58. tomix


    How did you react to Japanese aggression in WWII?

    If you mean the U.S., they okayed the Japanese aggression in China, Korea and Manchuria between 1910 and 1940….

  59. JC

    And please don’t respond to ad hominem arguments like JC.
    They are the last resort of the defeated.

    You fascist douchebag.

  60. stackja

    Vasily
    #1243986, posted on March 29, 2014 at 2:16 pm
    stackja, in my world, we accept a person is truthful unless proven otherwise.

    Yes!

  61. Vasily

    OK – but you are the one who introduced moral equivalence. Here’s my point about Cyprus: Turkey invaded it in 1974 and still occupies about half, contrary to UN resolution. Does US maintain sanctions against Turkey? Does it expel Turkey from NATO? No. It conducts NATO exercises and even bi-lateral military exercises with Turkey.

    So we see US hypocrisy exposed.

    Shall we continue to play the game? I have several more cards to play. The US is very generous in that respect.

  62. Your willful ignorance of it is getting tiresome.

    Translation:
    Vasily’s been beaten on every point, and is more or less just making shit up.

  63. JC

    There’s hat the US did is engage power politics with Turkey, vasily.

    Stop comparing and STFU, you lying barbarian.

  64. Does US maintain sanctions against Turkey?

    The whole world maintains sanctions aginst Turkish Cyprus.
    Your point is what?
    By the way, why are all those Russians in Greek Cyprus? For cheap gay sex with their houseboys, or what?

  65. JC

    Vasily.

    You lost the cold war, you live in a drunken shithole overrun by hookers and cronies. STFU. You have no moral equivalence to the US.

  66. Shall we continue to play the game?

    The game where Vasily deflects talk from an impending major war between well armed nations of white people, into a discussion about how some south pacific atoll once had their king deposed by a CIA orgaised coup, coz the director general of the FBI wanted cheap coconuts or something?
    Yeah, this game should be fun! We’ll get to find out just how full of shit Vasily is!

  67. Vasily

    Thank you for those examples tomix.

    The US government is Janus faced; it likes to speak the rhetoric of democracy but whenever democracy impinges upon its interests, i.e. the interests of corrupt, big American capital and the “military industrial complex” the US plays the interventionist game, directly or indirectly.

    Please understand, I am not against the American people; they have a great history and national character much to be admired, but they and the Anglo-American sphere, including Australia, are poorly served by the US government. I notice your Foreign Minister is towing the CIA line on Ukraine/Crimea. It is really a pity Australia can not be more independent minded. As US influence and presence in the Pacific recesses in coming decades, Russia, which also has Pacific bases, would be a helpful ally for you to balance against China. You need to think ahead. I believe US is about to enter isolationist phase as a result of foreign misadventures over recent decades going back to Vietnam. That will leave Australia exposed.

  68. Do you know the history of Russia?

    Some of us are familiar with Russia’s noble defences of its homeland at various times—and we’re also aware of Russia’s expansionist policies, and its taking of territories at various times which were never historically, culturally and linguistically Russian. Up until 1774, for instance, the Khanate of Crimea had not been historically, culturally or linguistically Russian.

    How did you Russia react to Japanese aggression in WWII?

    By declaring war on Japan (along with the other SSR, of course) after the bombing of Hiroshima, taking the territories of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, which were never historically, culturally or linguistically Russian, and retaining them to this day.

  69. Russians are in Cyprus, in wholesale numbers, coz Cuba is too far, Cuban men won’t submit to gay sex with white foreigners, and since Russia cut Cuba loose, Russians ain’t all that assured they’ll get out of the place alive again.

  70. Tel

    And please don’t respond to ad hominem arguments like JC.
    They are the last resort of the defeated.

    For JC they are a first resort, much like saying hello. Take it as endearment, which I believe is the spirit intended.

    You fascist douchebag.

    That means, “Good afternoon”. English can be confusing at times, we like it that way :-)

  71. the Anglo-American sphere, including Australia, are poorly served by the US government.

    Smart analysis sherlock. Just have a look at the photo at the top of this thread.

  72. Russia waited like chickenshits until we beat Japan, then jumped in and took credit. As a result Russia got some Japanese territory, and Korea got cut in half.
    Brilliant work. I hope the first Korean nuke strays off course & hit Vladivostok.

  73. Vasily

    JC and Steve,

    I am proud to conduct myself here in a manner which brings honour to my nation.
    You both, obviously, do not care to do that.

    JC, it is not about moral equivalence – that is actually a given for most of the world outside of ‘manifest destiny USA’, where nations’ bahaviour is judged by actions and not mere fine sounding words. It might surprise you, but the USA does not have exclusive right to moral action. It is about moral principle and whether nations who claim it have a right to. It is for that reason which Ambassador Vitaly Churkin laughed in Samantha Power’s face when she berated him. “Physician, heal thyself”!

    Anyway, Steve, the next card is…Grenada

  74. C.L.

    Good God.

    Worst administration in American history.

    Worst president in American history.

  75. towing the CIA line

    To toe the line, Vassily, is to conform to a policy or accept an authority; the expression comes from, say, when runners in a footrace have their feet just behind the starting line.

  76. stackja

    Steve at the Pub
    #1244020, posted on March 29, 2014 at 2:32 pm
    Russia waited like chickenshits until we beat Japan, then jumped in and took credit.

    FDR’s aides kept the Soviets well-informed on when to declare war.

  77. Vasily

    Smart analysis sherlock. Just have a look at the photo at the top of this thread.

    Indeed, Steve. Take a look at it! Children like this could be responsible for taking Australia into its next war.

    Btw, you wouldn’t have defeated Germany in WWI if not for Russian sacrifices on eastern front, drawing away German resources.

    Ditto WWII.

    But at least we were allies then and there is no reason not to be again.
    The Cold War is over; you won! Try to be gracious victors. History will remember you for it kindly.
    And as much as I love history, it is, as Irish writer James Joyce famously said, a nightmare from which we are trying to wake up. We know that very well in eastern Europe. I do not want to see the nightmare endlessly repeated with merely new characters. I want to see peace. If US would stay out of our back yard, we might have a chance.

    Thank you for advice, Tel. I’m not sure I understand – you are saying JC wants to be my best friend?

    I have to go now or I will waste the whole day. But I will try and check back later.

  78. Tel

    The germans didn’t kill enough of you in WW2. That is very clear.

    And what did you do to help hmmm, Steve?

    Don’t go blaming other people for your problems.

  79. stackja

    Deadman
    #1244030, posted on March 29, 2014 at 2:38 pm
    towing the CIA line
    To toe the line, Vassily, is to conform to a policy or accept an authority; the expression comes from, say, when runners in a footrace have their feet just behind the starting line.

    Reminds me Tired of Toein’ the Line.

  80. Vasily

    “Toeing” then, deadman? Thank you for correction. And it is one “s” in Vasily ;0)

  81. Tel

    – you are saying JC wants to be my best friend?

    And by best friend, that would imply swearing at you every day… yes I think JC would want that.

  82. Tim Andrews

    I am reminded of the following clip from In The Loop:

  83. Sorry, kingly one, for the accidental double s.

  84. Tom

    I am proud to conduct myself here in a manner which brings honour to my nation.
    You both, obviously, do not care to do that.

    So everything JC says about you being a fascist lackey of the Russian state is correct. Thanks for clearing that up.

  85. stackja

    Liberty Quotes
    The great virtue of a free market system is that it does not care what color people are; it does not care what their religion is; it only cares whether they can produce something you want to buy. It is the most effective system we have discovered to enable people who hate one another to deal with one another and help one another.
    — Milton Friedman

  86. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    From Bruce of Newcastle at 12:19 pm:

    “… Samantha Power went over to the Russian and gave him a piece of her mind. ‘If you do not withdraw I will ‘scold you some more‘. “

    The shift in power and influence in world politics during these past few weeks has been extraordinary. The kiddies in charge on our behalf are laughable, they are laughing and Vladimir cannot ease the pain in his side from laughing too.

    Is there an Alliance Rusky where I can bring myself forward in my understanding of the Russian language? I fear I may need it.

  87. Splatacrobat

    This is the other side of the sign.

    It’s not just paper lefties recycle.

  88. JC

    I am proud to conduct myself here in a manner which brings honour to my nation.

    I just vomited in my mouth.

  89. I am proud to conduct myself here in a manner which brings honour to my nation.
    You both, obviously, do not care to do that.

    He’s right, I’m not remotely interested in bringing honour to his nation.

    If he’s suggesting that he is bringing honour to his own nation, well, gettin’ on high time someone did, coz not one action of a Russian has brought honour to that nation in the lifetime of anybody who is alive today.

  90. The germans didn’t kill enough of you in WW2. That is very clear.

    And what did you do to help hmmm, Steve?
    Don’t go blaming other people for your problems.

    You’re on the wrong thread or something Tel.
    Time to change hands, at the very least, lest ye go blind.

  91. Combine_Dave

    Russia, which also has Pacific bases, would be a helpful ally for you to balance against China.

    In terms of trade I believe I believe Australia ia well served by it’s trade relationships with China, Japan and Korea.

    Ditto in terms of our culture; referenced from USA/UK/EU and our military relationship with the yanks (even though they refused to help us in East Timor).

    Not much room to be sympathetic with a potential enemy of all of the above.

  92. the yanks (even though they refused to help us in East Timor).

    On the upside, that is the reason for the low number of fatal casualties among allied troops in Timor.

  93. cynical1

    Ponder this Vasily: Just how much better would life have been in Russia for the past 70 years, had the Nazis won world war two?

    A shitload better than it was under the commos, that is for sure.


    The germans didn’t kill enough of you in WW2. That is very clear.

    I’d like to see you say that to a Russian face.

    You prick.

    Ever see the Russians getting dumped in trenches with a bullet in the back of head courtesy of the
    advancing Krauts who saw them as sub human?

    The average Russian has no say of Government policy.

    To support the murderous Nazis makes you fucking scum.

  94. To support the murderous Nazis makes you fucking scum.

    The only place you’ll see fucking scum is in the mirror.

    To help you find it, a mirror is a shiny thing that reflects light. Quite confusing for puppies, and likely for you too.

  95. stackja

    cynical1
    #1244124, posted on March 29, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    Stalin?

  96. J.H.

    She probably went through collage and University squalling about nuclear disarmament and all that guff…. Well here she is, an American secretary of state… There’s the Ukraine, the only nuclear armed country to have ever unilaterally disarmed itself of its Nuclear weapons in exchange for recognition of its sovereignty and borders.

    …. and her response is a friggin’ twitter campaign?!!!?

    Putin will be pissing himself laughing. Heck he may as well gobble up Moldova while he’s at it.

    Good grief.

  97. John Harris

    Vasily is quite correct.
    I also see that his questions were not only not answered, but he was abused for his temerity in raising or refuting them.
    As for who the shills are, I am not really amused that ‘steve at the pub’ seems to want to rewrite history and defy the historical fact, all the while abusing Vasily for calling him out on it.

    As for ‘steve at the pub’ and his focus on homosexual depravity, I think the less said the better.
    The same is easily said for ‘stackja’, “AC’ and ‘deadman’.
    I fail to see what their rubbish, by way of reply, has anything to do with the matter at hand.

    As for Vasily raising very real concerns about the Global political and power struggles of the next few decades, then having them dismissed with pig ignorance and no understanding of the history quoted within this page of commentary, that is truly stunning.

    Vasily is also quite correct about character. You collectively have none. Much less manners or sense.
    No, instead of being focused on school-yard bully boy tactics, how about you Feral, Bogan Morons, for Moron’s you are, focus on the questions raised and the positions put forward?

    Failing that, how about you just sod back off to your parent’s basements and let the grown-ups have a discussion?

    Also, unlike you mongrel, bile spewing misfits, I am quite happy to put my Bias and Prejudice on the table and announce that I am Ex. Military, white, over fifty and conservative.
    I am also sadly an Australian, albeit of Celtic descent.
    I less happy to announce that more than a few in my family also died fighting for the issues in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and most recently, Iraq.
    So, no love of warmongers, but also no love for the filth who see it as a solution or to profit from it.

    Like Vasily, I am also student of history.
    Clearly, whatever the USA and the UK are trying to sell, it’s not Democracy.
    By the way, a Republic, which the USA is, also is not a Democracy. That was by design and intent.

    Should you want a real lesson in geo politics and what happens when you get it all terribly wrong, study up on the history and sophistry of Rome.

    As Vasily quite correctly points out, when you really succeed in screwing up the balance of nations, as well as not honouring your commitments, the refreshing of the blood fields of history and the rapid decline of civilisation into barbaric depravity is a given.

    So lets address the real issues and not your predisposed penchant for childish abuse and revisionist nonsense.
    By the way, I also agree with Putin’s position.

    I can also only pray that we get a better class of Conservative leaders in Australia, real soon.
    One’s who can recognise the threat that is the current incarnation of the USA and the problems China are about to unleash.
    One’s that can also unwind the Marxist, Peasant and mindless Bogan mentality’s that has infected this country, in particular, over the last four decades.

    As for the EU, their problems are entirely there doing, they should be allowed to clean up their own mess, at their own expense.

  98. Tel

    Heck he may as well gobble up Moldova while he’s at it.

    What’s he going to do with Moldova?

  99. She’s never held a job. Only ever been a political staffer (If her wikipedia page is to be believed).

    The Washington Post article on her wedding makes one want to vomit. In what must be either a world-class case of hubris, or similar grade lack of self-awareness, she believes she’s of considerable value to society. (Guffaw).
    It is easy to see why a couple of hundred years ago peasants revolted & put such people’s head on sticks.

  100. Baldrick

    Ahh … so this is part of the forward deployed Twitter shield.

    Well done! That’ll rattle those commie bastards.

    h/t lotocoti

  101. you Feral, Bogan Morons, for Moron’s you are

    Boris, how about brushing up on your English?
    Coz you don’t know the meaning of “feral” (just for starters)

  102. What’s he going to do with Moldova?

    Dunno Tel. Besides “protect the Russian community” of Moldova, & fair put the wind right up Romania.

  103. JC

    Not another Hi Alan. Fuck me, there’s a zombie trove of the bastards.

  104. J.H.

    LOL at Vasilly. He says to Steve in a post above.

    Vasily
    #1243908, posted on March 29, 2014 at 1:42 pm
    Moral equivalence? No, moral principle, Steve.
    The principle Adams teaches – respect sovereign nation’s affairs.

    It’s a good thing then Vasilly that you used American founding fathers for moral principles rather than trying to quote Stalinist Russia’s moral principles….. There were none.

    As for “Respect sovereign nation’s affairs”….. one would assume that also means borders and sovereignty.

    Russia, Britain and America all signed an agreement with the Ukraine, that in exchange for nuclear disarmament of the Ukraine’s nuclear weapons after the Soviet Union’s breakup, that the Ukraine’s sovereignty and borders would be recognized and respected.

    An agreement that Russia has wantonly broken by invading the Crimean peninsular and annexing it….. Invasion and attack is not exactly a benign act Vasilly. It could be construed as, Not respecting a Sovereign Nation’s Interests….. Hmmm?

  105. J.H.

    Tel

    #1244153, posted on March 29, 2014 at 4:40 pm
    Heck he may as well gobble up Moldova while he’s at it.

    What’s he going to do with Moldova?

    Same reasons as he wanted the Crimea I suppose….. Here’s a news story from a few days ago.

  106. Combine_Dave

    than a few in my family also died fighting for the issues in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and most recently, Iraq.

    Pray tell, why you now turn against everything they fought and died for?

    I didnt realise there could be such a thing as a pro-Russian version of numbers.

  107. Perth Trader

    John Harris..Your a breath of fresh air.

  108. J.H.

    Vasily
    #1243921, posted on March 29, 2014 at 1:48 pm
    Gab,
    You are missing the real picture. Stop Putin? Did Putin overthrow legal government by inciting a Fascist mob under pretext of democracy? What do you think Putin should do as Russia’s strategic Black Sea naval base falls under NATO/US/EU influence? Play golf?

    “Did Putin overthrow legal government by inciting a Fascist mob under pretext of democracy? “
    He did worse Vasilly, Putin invaded a sovereign country and annexed part of it instead. You also assume that America or Western influences were “inciting” and that “inciting” is a greater evil act to invasion and annexation.

    The fact is Putin’s Russia was just as culpable in their “Incitement” of Ukrainian affairs as anyone else. The very fact that the Ex President Viktor Yanukovych fled into exile in Russia would kind of indicate that Russian meddling in Ukrainian affairs went to the very top…. Hmm.

    As for your label Ukrainian Fascists….. They are Ukrainian Nationalists. I put it to you that the Russian Nationalists are displaying a greater fascist tendency?

    And lastly….”What do you think Putin should do as Russia’s strategic Black Sea naval base falls under NATO/US/EU influence? Play golf?”

    I don’t think Putin plays golf, perhaps it is time he took it up?…. However to the other part of your question Vasilly…. Sevastopol is/was no longer Russian. It’s time for Russia to make a strategic naval port someplace else on the Black Sea coast. In fact that is what they were doing. Novorossiysk was going to be the new Black Sea fleet base.

  109. Richard

    BTW, who is that silly girl with the partially obscured sign? Is she going to un-friend Putin? Wow. That would stop his military adventures for sure.

  110. “BTW, who is that silly girl with the partially obscured sign? Is she going to un-friend Putin? Wow. That would stop his military adventures for sure.” (can we have the formatting buttons back please?)

    I think you’re onto something there. Lookout Vlad, it’ll be worse that just losing twitter followers, you’ll be unfriended dude. lolz.

  111. Hmm, google images seems to have “disappeared” that photo. It was front & centre a few hours ago.
    Hmmm
    Hmmm

  112. Bill Shut

    Come on girly. Do a Putin and pose topless. That’ll learn ‘em.

  113. If she gets more “likes” than Putin, does that mean Vlad has to send his troops home?

  114. Judging by the tone here it appears the only acceptable foreign policy outcome some at the Cat would like to see is the US of A declare war on Russia for having the audacity in reclaiming territory that has been rightfully theirs for over two hundred years in order to support the greatest socialist enterprise every undertaken, the EU, who got shafted out of their latest land grab.

    That’s just my take on it…

    The Americans aren’t going to do anything that matters because they set the precedent in Serbia and know that Russia has a legitimate claim, but have to act upset at having their plans of denying the Russians access to the Mediterranean, which is what this boils down to, posturing by the EU that went wrong and now the Americans have to save them, again.

  115. Alfonso

    This State Dept kiddie has maybe had her second fuck.
    Her life experience undoubtably informs her deep insight and superb problem solving talents.
    Bet she worships Oby …… the poor wee thing should give thanks she wasn’t attached to the US Embassy in Benghazi.

  116. This State Dept kiddie has maybe had her second fuck.

    Alfonso, she’s 36 years old. Has never held any job except political staffer/campaign worker.
    Just how do you think she got to be the spokeswoman for the US State Department?

  117. blogstrop

    The Americans aren’t going to do anything that matters …

    They aren’t doing anything right now, haven’t done so for a while, and probably will not until the Obunny moves on.

  118. Combine_Dave

    Judging by the tone here it appears the only acceptable foreign policy outcome some at the Cat would like to see is the US of A declare war on Russia

    Care to provide some quotes from ‘Cats’ indicatingvsupport for WW3?

    Now that Russia has retrieved their colonists from Crimeria what’s the next pretext for rolling on Ukraine?

    for having the audacity in reclaiming territory that has been rightfully theirs for over two hundred years in order to support the greatest socialist enterprise every undertaken, the EU, who got shafted out of their latest land grab.

    China says the same thing about Taiwan. Any evidence, any at all (ignoring that the EU is not a nation in of itself) that the EU were rolling their Renault-Panzers east, massing soldiers on the border of Ukraine thus requiring Putin’s military intervention?

    The Americans aren’t going to do anything that matters because they set the precedent in Serbia and know that Russia has a legitimate claim,

    There’s a big difference between accepting a bully’s demands and being too impotent to stop Putin even if the USA wanted to.

    This boils down to, posturing by the EU that went wrong and now the Americans have to save them, again.

    If Nato and the EU had their hearts set on encircling Russia and taking the Ukraine why are they so wrong footed now by Putin’s actions? Where are their militaries?

  119. It’s always amusing to wander in on the times JC gets outclassed. Granted, the bluster is effective on lefties who need to feel part of the group; when dealing with someone like Vasily — who is somewhere well to the right of most here — its utterly ineffectual, and somewhat embarrassing.

    Attack the left through exclusion; attack the right with logic. And look down at your hand every now and then so you remember which is your left.. its the one that makes an ‘L’ shape when you stick your thumb to the side.

  120. Bertie_Wooster

    Steve at the Pub
    #1243969, posted on March 29, 2014 at 2:09 pm
    You are the one who is lying, Steve.

    Vasily, you may continue to be dishonest, that may be the Soviet way, but if you persist with lying, and with verballing, I will not be obliged to treat you as a human.

    The germans didn’t kill enough of you in WW2. That is very clear.

    Steve, you’re a nasty nasty piece of work.

    If you can’t argue like an adult, you shouldn’t be here.
    In fact anyone who condones this sort of bullshit needs to reconsider why they are here and what values they purport to believe.

  121. John Harris

    “Steve at the Pub”,

    So much noise, so little to say.
    As for the Boris crack, you seem to have added a very nasty racist tone to your bile.
    Pity I’m not Russian.

    As for your continued diatribe, It’s quite clear that you have nothing to really add, you seem to enjoy provocation, insult and offensive slander.
    Pardon then, if you get ignored, belittled or dismissed.

    As for attempting to correct an expression, idea or well deserved insult, bear in mind that I have read the same debating and propaganda rubbish, or I assume you have, however, I mastered this some decades ago.
    I also dismissed this at the same time as both useless and unworthy, as it failed to address the central tenant, that being a meeting of minds and free and fearsome exchange of idea’s.
    Good wit and fine repartee in debate are good tools to enhance an argument or challenge a flawed concept or false premise.
    They are also good tools to draw out the unspoken or assumed elements of a opinion and it’s differences.

    Rude abuse, belittling or alleging unspoken assumptions or bias, or suggested straw-man positions or arguments, while seeming to be amusing to juveniles, advance nothing more than the ignorance and prejudice of the offender.

    As for ‘Combine_Dave’, seriously, I could not expect my reply to you to be printed, were I to address you as you fully deserve.
    I was not impressed with being called a ‘Baby Killer’ back in the seventies, by dip shit hippies and mindless foul mouthed brainwashed left wing lunatics.

    Since that time, every atrocity that was committed both by the Chinese and Russian military advisors and their support specialist that were involved in both Vietnam and Korea has been well documented and proven.

    This comes as no surprise to myself, my uncles or cousins that served in the Australian Military during the fifty, sixties and seventies.
    Unlike most, I was not a Nasho. I joined up for Six Years, when I was Seventeen, and finished my time, somewhat extended into the eighties, at LWC, teaching people how to keep their head down, shoot straight and stay alive.

    As for my betraying my family, or those that served, seriously, piss off, you dick-head.
    I have no problems with my position on this.
    I have no problems with any servicemen & women that feel betrayed by Vietnam and the filth that betrayed them.
    By this, I refer directly to the politicians of the day and the so called ‘do-gooders’
    Like myself, most of the servicemen & women who also served with honour and commitment, would consider you a grub.
    I also doubt that they would consider picking a war with Russia, on Russia’s border’s, as a smart move.
    But hey, GRUB, that’s just me.
    Although I do clearly remember JFK having the same issue with Cuba, when the Russians thought it was smart to do pretty much the same. That also met with a very negative response.

    In this, I fully understand where Vasily is coming from and Putin’s position with Crimea.

    While I cannot recommended you serving your country, or any other cause, noble or otherwise, I can recommend you pull your head in and shut your mouth.
    Failing that, by all means, piss off most of the elder generation, anybody else that cares and show yourself for the ungrateful cur that you seem to represent.

    As for the rude child that ‘Steve at the Pub’ seems to represent, let’s see how it works out over the next three months and three years.

    Given the choice between Putin, a GOD fearing, Russian orthodox Christian, who is pro family, Pro Russian AND VERY MUCH moulded in a classical love of his country and his people, as opposed, to say, an absent vulgarian intent on destroying a modern but dysfunctional Republic, my money is on the guy that wants to serve his people and protect his borders.

    Oddly enough, a lot of people can not only respect that, but support it.
    More so when they are slightly more knowledgeable and have actuality looked at the forces at work in the Crimean peninsula.

    Given the choice between Putin, an absent vulgarian, or a Eastern Asian Regime with a chip on it’s shoulder, I would have to pick those who want peace.
    Putin has made his position clear, Poland is a free state, as is East Germany and countless other sovereign soviet satellite nations.
    However, when Putin draws a red line, it’s probably wise not to piss him off.

    Unless you have a better idea. One that actually works and won’t start another world war.

  122. Bruce of Newcastle

    I’ve worked with several Russians. They are as near to Aussies in their outlook of all nationalities I’ve met (Dutch, Swedes and especially Finns rate highly too). Self reliant, realist, can-do and tough. Never, ever take them on in a bar though, not even the kids.

    But do they choose horrible leaders or what???

  123. jupes

    Ponder this Vasily: Just how much better would life have been in Russia for the past 70 years, had the Nazis won world war two?

    You ignorant dickhead.

    The Nazis killed Russians at a much faster rate than the commies.

  124. Paul

    “But do they choose horrible leaders or what???”

    Do they? I think they chose pretty well, but then I’ve never been much into mindlessly regurgitating neocon talking points.

  125. Tel

    The Nazis killed Russians at a much faster rate than the commies.

    Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler was able to, but Stalin did a lot of killing at his leisure after the war, so it’s not too difficult to expect the Nazis would have done something similar if they had the chance. The important thing about historical disasters is that we learn something.

    But do they choose horrible leaders or what???

    I think Putin was mostly chosen by Putin, but he does at least appear to act in the interests of Russia, and that’s something I suppose.

  126. You ignorant dickhead.

    Go and fuck yourself Jupes, with a pineapple. Then rinse & repeat. Fuckwit. Got any more stupid stuff to say? Moron.

    The Nazis killed Russians at a much faster rate than the commies.

    No shit Sherlock. You must be Nostradamus. Relevance please dickhead.

    Thinkin’ ain’t your strong point, is it?

  127. Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler was able to, but Stalin did a lot of killing at his leisure after the war

    You’re very right Tel. However Stalin did plenty of killing before the war. He had about 20 years in charge of the Soviet Union before Operation Barbarossa became his biggest headache.

    Had he not shot just about every officer with a modicum of military competence, Russia may not have had such a tough time in the Great Patriotic War (known elsewhere, with the addition of a few minor skirmishes in western europre & the pacific, as World War Two).

    Come to think of it, the survival rate of Ukrainians wasn’t all that good under Stalin at the best of times.

  128. jupes

    Relevance please dickhead.

    Seriously?

    Ponder this Vasily: Just how much better would life have been in Russia for the past 70 years, had the Nazis won world war two?

    A shitload better than it was under the commos, that is for sure.

  129. Bruce of Newcastle

    Do they? I think they chose pretty well

    Paul – I work in the mining industry. Putin’s masters thesis was on nationalising strategic industries including the mining industry. He has been doing what he said ever since. The Russian mining industry isn’t what you could call cutting edge. Putin is, though, very rich. Many other oligarchs in Russia are very rich. I have direct experience of ordinary Russians lives, they are not very rich. But they are bright, competent, realist and very cynical when you get them drunk, which is difficult.

    And going back in time you have Yeltsin the piss-pot. Gorbachev the greenie, Andropov the creepy KGB guy, Brezhnev the toad, Kruschev the nutcase, Stalin the bloody murderer and etc. I maybe missed a few.

  130. A shitload better than it was under the commos, that is for sure.

    Am I to take it this is a (rather inept) way of disputing that statement? :-)

  131. jupes

    Am I to take it this is a (rather inept) way of disputing that statement?

    Your words Steve. You reckon the Nazis would have been better for Russians than the Commies.

    I pointed out that that is bullshit. Since then you haven’t made an ounce of sense.

  132. You reckon the Nazis would have been better for Russians than the Commies.
    I pointed out that that is bullshit.

    No, you said it was bullshit. Which is something entirely different.

  133. Bertie_Wooster

    Steve, you can shitpost all you like.

    But cut out the nastiness. It really makes it clear how incapable of argument you really are.

    Maybe put away the second bott of red before you start posting at 11pm on a Saturday night.

  134. Steve, you can shitpost all you like.
    But cut out the nastiness. It really makes it clear how incapable of argument you really are.
    Maybe put away the second bott of red before you start posting at 11pm on a Saturday night.

    I don’t hardly ever drink sport. And I’m at work at 11pm on a Saturday night, so I definitely don’t drink. Drongo. Unwise to judge people by your own standard.

    The best you’ve done is say I’m a “nasty piece of work”. Then without any apparent sense of irony you use this line:

    It really makes it clear how incapable of argument you really are.

    You’re a class act sport.

  135. jupes

    No, you said it was bullshit. Which is something entirely different.

    I really have no idea what you are talking about.

  136. srr

    Given the choice between Putin, a GOD fearing, Russian orthodox Christian, who is pro family, Pro Russian AND VERY MUCH moulded in a classical love of his country and his people, as opposed, to say, an absent vulgarian intent on destroying a modern but dysfunctional Republic, my money is on the guy that wants to serve his people and protect his borders.

    It’s, The GOD Thing.

    When COMMUNIST Russia tried to force denial of God, it became a toilet with no toilet paper.

    MODERN RUSSIA admitted to the world that denying God was bloody stupid.

    MODERN RUSSIANS have been climbing out of the toilet and populating tropical beaches, at a miraculous rate, since.

    The ‘modern’ ‘Western’ world hates Modern Russians for refusing to let Anti-Christs / Communists bully and torture them into denying God.

    They set a ‘bad’ example for the God denying propagandists of the EU and UN.

  137. Combine_Dave

    As for ‘Combine_Dave’, seriously, I could not expect my reply to you to be printed, were I to address you as you fully deserve.

    And yet you failed to address any of my earlier points and still descended into abuse. Epic fail. Retard.

    I was not impressed with being called a ‘Baby Killer’ back in the seventies, by dip shit hippies and mindless foul mouthed brainwashed left wing lunatics.

    I certainly (and none of my serving relies) would ever had said such things to you. And I am very sorry that this abuse appears to have effected you in much the same way as numbers. Turning a champion of freedom (a hero if you will) into a totalitarian loving cock sucker.

    But enough with the pleasantries lets look at your arguments below……

    Bit light on isn’t it?

    This comes as no surprise to myself, my uncles or cousins that served in the Australian Military during the fifty, sixties and seventies.

    So your point is that Australian military veterans are by and large supportive of Putin swallowing neighbouring countries, just because he can?

    WW2: Australia on the side of angels (even though UK/USA were wrong to trust Stalin, vindicating the views of General Patton).
    Vietnam/Korea; Again Australia on the right side of history during the ‘cold’ war putting it to Putin’s predecessor’s proxy states

    Not alot of common ground to be found then between Putin’s land grab and those who sacrificed their lives to prevent the past spread of powerfully militarised bully boys.

    As for my betraying my family, or those that served, seriously, piss off, you dick-head.

    You are right. I apologise on this point. Much like Gillard’s father was very likely not ashamed of his daughter’s government (he was a bigger lefty than she), I have no info to suggest that your own family would be opposed to your own lord haw-haw style beliefs.

    servicemen & women that feel betrayed by Vietnam and the filth that betrayed them.
    By this, I refer directly to the politicians of the day and the so called ‘do-gooders’

    Eactly right. These pollies and their fellow travellers in the media betrayed Australia, our servicemen and our allies in vietnam.

    Like myse& women who also served with honour and commitment, would consider you a grub. I also doubt that they would consider picking a war with Russia

    In ignoring Russia’s current agression NATO (particularly the USA) are sending a signal to every despot in the world, that any territory in the world is now ripe for the picking. Can India, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan or even Australia now reasonably expect that the USA is a reliable partner who will assist us in our times of need? The answer now is of course a resounding no.

    No one expects Obama to launch WW3, but mobilising the troops and ensuring Ukraines borders (rather what’s left of Ukraines borders), would negate the above and ensure Putin doesn’t go for gold and absorb the whole of the Ukraine.

    Given the choice between Putin, a GOD fearing, Russian orthodox Christian [sic], as opposed, to say, an absent vulgarian

    Ignoring Putin’s material and financial support for Islamic-Facist States my money is on the world’s sole super power. Obama just needs to get off the golf course and into the command centre.

    Given the choice between Putin, an absent vulgarian, or a Eastern Asian Regime with a chip on it’s shoulder, I would have to pick those who want peace.

    Japan?

    Putin has made his position clear, Poland is a free state, as is East Germany and countless other sovereign soviet satellite nations.

    Leaving aside the fact that there is no longer an artificial East German state…. Putin had made these sorts of assurances with the Ukraine in the past, turns out it didn’t amount to much if he could keep his puppet regime in place. If the USA does nothing now than all of the eastern ‘satellite’ states are in peril.

    Unless you have a better idea.

    Being weak now only ensures that WW3 will happen sooner or later as each new despot tests America’s resolve. The USA/NATO needs to act now to ensure the Ukraine does not end up again in the belly of the Russian bear.

  138. Joe Goodacre

    I agree with the post – you could put the words ‘look mum, I’m‘ in front of #UnitedforUkraine and it wouldn’t look out of place.

    Seems to be a common trend of it being cool to be flippant on matters that used to be seen as a great responsibility.

  139. Crossie

    She probably went through collage and University squalling about nuclear disarmament and all that guff…. Well here she is, an American secretary of state… There’s the Ukraine, the only nuclear armed country to have ever unilaterally disarmed itself of its Nuclear weapons in exchange for recognition of its sovereignty and borders…. and her response is a friggin’ twitter campaign?!!!?

    Putin will be pissing himself laughing. Heck he may as well gobble up Moldova while he’s at it.

    Good grief.

    She is not the Secretary of State, only the Spox and a poor one at that. The Secretary of State is the horse face John Kerry and a poor one at that.

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