Hockey getting stroppy

Joe Hockey responding to journalists asking him about broken promises:

Treasurer Joe Hockey got fired up about reports the government might break its promise not to bring in new taxes by introducing its deficit levy.

“Frankly, can I say to you something – I mean, all this talk about broken promises and so on, of course we are endeavouring to keep our promises and we will,” Mr Hockey told reporters in Parliament House.

“But the bottom line is the Labor Party promised the Budget would get back to surplus and it never will. It never will,” he said.

“So please this idea, somehow, that everything we have ever said is going to be held against what has moved on us because the previous Government basically misled the Australian people about the state of the budget, is kind of ridiculous.”

“However, we are keeping our promises, we are keeping our solemn promises.”

No Joe – that doesn’t carry any weight as an argument.

What the Labor Party did or didn’t promise is entirely irrelevant – they were tossed out of office at the last election and you were elected to office on the promise of no new taxes. To be fair, if circumstances had changed so that your previous promises – your solemn promises – were now impractical or unobtainable or even irresponsible then I might have more sympathy your position.

But here is the thing: The Labor Party had absolutely zero credibility on budget issues. We know this because of the laughter that greeted Wayne Swan’s budget speech announcement of a return to surplus. We know this because you, Joe Hockey, kept telling us about the budget crisis being driven by irresponsible spending. We know this because we here at The Cat documented the irresponsible spending and even analysed the Budget Papers showing that it was spending driving the debt and deficit crisis.

So maybe the Australian people were mislead – I doubt it, but okay – you weren’t mislead about the state of the budget. In full knowledge of the budget situation you promised to repair the damage while not increasing taxes. To renege on that promise is simply to have told a lie. You will have lied when you promised to not increase taxes, and you will have lied about why you lied in the first place.

Now I understand that politicians don’t like being labelled as liars – indeed, many such accusations are unfair – but this broken promise is a lie. You can still walk away from it.

This entry was posted in 2013 election, Budget, Taxation. Bookmark the permalink.

197 Responses to Hockey getting stroppy

  1. Mike of Marion

    People working in Canberra are so heavenly, they serce no earthly purpose!!

    Now it’s the Libs turn to feel the blowtorch.

  2. Notafan

    Ditch direct action, keep your tax promise, explode leftie heads and save 3 billion you would have wasted fixing a non existent problem.

  3. Motelier

    Has Sloppy Joe ever run a business?

    I have to balance my books yearly under threat of huge penalties if I don’t, as do every other large, medium and small business in Australia.

    If you have to pay a debt back to someone then you need to find a way to either cut your costs, or increase revenue.

    More Australians are working now, and the number of unemployed persons is reducing.

    Sloppy Joe needs to get a small business owner as an advisor. The budget will be back in surplus pretty quickly.

  4. egg_

    You’re toast, Hockey.

  5. Rabz

    Said it before and will say it again – start backpedalling, Joe.

    Don’t introduce the ‘levy’ or increase or introduce any other taxes.

    Time to start trying to rebuild the government’s relationship with the electorate.

    The first budget is as good an opportunity as any.

  6. Andrew

    Sinclair, you are still calling for Hockey to break many of his other promises yet are attacking him for breaking this promise. You can’t have it both ways. I hate the deficit tax as much as anyone but one has to be consistent on whether promises should be kept or shafted.

  7. wukkow

    What if the levy was put on the books, with conditions, that it be removed as spending cuts are implemented? That would improve the budget either way, but force those opposed to make the choice and wear the political consequences.

  8. Perpetual Motion

    Spin it any way you like, Joe. You spent 4 years calling Gillard a liar, railing against “big new taxes”, and telling us the problem was excessive spending.

    And at your first budget you intend to break a promise and introduce a great big new tax.

    That makes you a piss-weak liar just like Gillard, and there’s no amount of spin that will change that. You’re a one-termer.

  9. Steve of Glasshouse

    Time for a decent fireside chat by Tony. The background video should be footage of the WWII Russians ripping up rail lines as they faced defeat. EXACTLY what the ALP left the incoming gov. FFS, a bit of deadset honesty rather than massaged backroom bullshit. LNP echo chambers are just as bad as Kruddy and the pod people

  10. Steve of Glasshouse

    And another thing, the ACT born to purple brigade are squawking about the proposed cuts; they can’t squawk if you cut them out root and branch

  11. Sinclair Davidson

    Sinclair, you are still calling for Hockey to break many of his other promises yet are attacking him for breaking this promise.

    Links?

  12. Nic

    The Libs always knew that Labor’s projections were dodgy. They can’t say its a surprise

  13. Motelier

    And another thing, the ACT born to purple brigade are squawking about the proposed cuts; they can’t squawk if you cut them out root and branch

    +1
    I vote that for a liberty quote. You speak like a small business person.

  14. Andrew

    Links?

    Well you have called the Commission of Audit “modest”. Considering that the Audit released breaks many promises, you wanting the cuts to go further would want a hell of a lot of promises broken. PPL is the obvious example for my contention.

  15. Motelier

    So Sloppy Joe needs to be told.

    @The_Motelier: @JoeHockey If you have trouble getting the budget into surplus, get a small to medium business owner as an advisor. Back in Black quick.

  16. Dan

    Sinclair, you are still calling for Hockey to break many of his other promises yet are attacking him for breaking this promise.

    Yes but FFS reducing the ABC to a rump would save money, encourage private media and allow more cash in to the productive economy. Higher taxes stifle growth and will be wasted as they are now. Break promises if the betrayal actually helps the country. These people don’t want to help our country. I don’t know what they want. I thought they wanted to win elections but clearly they don’t. Sadly, I now think they are just completely stupid and that’s why they are doing a job requiring no qualifications, relevant experience or track record except promises they can’t keep.

  17. jumpnmcar

    Joe’s talking to the media about the media bias when it comes to scrutiny by the media.
    Nothing more.

  18. entropy

    Break promises if the betrayal actually helps the country. These people don’t want to help our country. I don’t know what they want. I thought they wanted to win elections but clearly they don’t. Sadly, I now think they are just completely stupid and that’s why they are doing a job requiring no qualifications, relevant experience or track record except promises they can’t keep.

    There would be very very few jobs in the country, with as many perquisites as the job of a politician, that would be available to a second rate suburban lawyer or union organiser.

  19. candy

    Sinclair, you appear to have been advocating breaking of promises as far as I can see in previous posts, (but I could be wrong, so my apologies, I’m usually wrong!) – PPL, DA, NDIS, etc. but the debt levy you see as a solemn promise and can’t be broken.

    I’m struggling to see the logic in that.

  20. Sinclair Davidson

    Andrew – so you are unable to provide links. Exactly what I thought.

  21. Sinclair Davidson

    Candy – Links?

  22. entropy

    Would delaying those break a promise Candy?

  23. Andrew

    Andrew – so you are unable to provide links. Exactly what I thought.

    You couldn’t rebut my contention that you want them to break promises. Unless you don’t any changes to the PPL or pensions for example?

  24. candy

    No links, I’m no good at that, you know that.

    Just asking – you fully support not breaking any promises related to health, education, disability, ABC, but support breaking of a promise regarding a levy?

    (which imo there was no mention in the campaign about any debt levy, and anything to do with taxes seemed to be about GST but my focus was on the social issues).

  25. stackja

    Sinc only one person can save Australia that is TA!
    Stop this endless criticism you are only helping the ALP.

  26. Gab

    Yeah, Sinclair, stop criticizing the government. Just agree with everything they say and do. /sarc

  27. Sinclair Davidson

    You couldn’t rebut my contention that you want them to break promises.

    What? You pull some bullshit out of your arse, are unable to provide any substantiation when challenged, and I must rebut?

    Nice try.

  28. Sinclair Davidson

    Stop this endless criticism you are only helping the ALP.

    My views on this are similar to Fleeced. If we’re to have ALP policy, we should have an ALP government.

  29. Perpetual Motion

    Give it up Stackja. TA is proving himself to be no better than Gillard. He’s a liar.

  30. Notafan

    Most of us think NDIS might be a good idea but we know it seems to be a Gillard (sob) thought bubble process, not funded and extraordinarily expensive. The only concrete story I have seen is an intellectually disabled girl got an I-pad.
    I’m sure the administrative process around that was four times the cost of the I-pad. The mother a fulltime carer on a pension I presume was also getting respite care for a few hours a week. Well the daughter was but I’m not sure that was a benefit to her.
    Nothing there seems like it couldn’t have happened without NDIS.
    NDIS seems like another Canberra beaucracy that doesn’t actually do anything.
    Like all those carbon departments,.were any of them sequestering carbon or something?

  31. Splatacrobat

    Next they will be proposing death duties.

  32. Grace

    What about their core promise to bring the budget back into surplus, surely that’s the most important promise not to break.

  33. dan

    Sinc – urgent request. Start a thread concentrating on the Libs OPPOSING the proposal. As far as I know, only two publicly, Bernardi and Seselja. If there are more they should be deluged. I wrote to both of them:

    Dear Senator,
    I wish to support your reported statements questioning the utility of the deficit tax. Like other high income earners, I feel that my contributions to this country result from my investments in my business, employing more staff, upgrading equipment and improving productivity. With marginal rates already near 50% and stifling enterprise, paying more tax into a system that is clearly unproductive and broken is no solution.

    In addition the scope of the (apparent) proposed tax is enormous, with a successful professional up for perhaps $20,000 in taxes over five years, or more. This is enough to change people’s plans. In my case enough to start reconsidering studying for an MBA.

    Please fight this.

    Kind Regards,

  34. JC

    Great post Sinc, Just great.

  35. candy

    Would delaying those break a promise Candy?

    TA will be crucified by the media for any promise breaking. It’s a very very fine path they have to tread.

  36. Splatacrobat

    Core, non core, solemn, they are all variations of the same thing. Even my old Granny knows a promise is a promise. It’s only politicians that seek to redifine the word like Dante describing the nine circles of hell.

  37. Motelier

    Sinc only one person can save Australia that is TA!
    Stop this endless criticism you are only helping the ALP.

    I have to call this statement as bullshit. The only people that can save Australia are the voters of Australia voting for policies that are promoted by those that wish to get into the Legislative Assembly.

    We as the voters have power to decide who makes decisions on our behalf.

    If any political party promotes a policy and then either trashes that policy or votes against that policy, then I as the voter in a democracy should have the right to voice my displeasure at that political party.

    If the current government has the balls to cry “Budget Emergency” then let them spill the books and do the right thing. And I do not want to hear the excuse “we want a soft landing” as employment is improving.

    The fact that employment figures are improving should show the government that Business Companies in general are following their mantra.

    Hell we export so much but have little value add. Make the conditions for employment in Australia better, in all spheres and watch the tax receipts grow.

  38. srr

    What about their core promise to bring the budget back into surplus, surely that’s the most important promise not to break.

    “But the bottom line is the Labor Party promised the Budget would get back to surplus and it never will. It never will,” he said.

    Yes, Hockey said that.
    NOT, “It never would have, under Labor”but It NEVER WILL, and he repeated it.

  39. candy

    A promise has to apply to cutting the ABC, for example, or not cutting. We can’t differentiate on the issue, if we decide a promise is a promise.

  40. dan

    There would be very very few jobs in the country, with as many perquisites as the job of a politician, that would be available to a second rate suburban lawyer or union organiser.

    We were doing some particularly high-risk work today (as in, move an inch that way and your customer dies instantly) and I was thinking afterwards, thank God we don’t have the same approach as the Libs to our daily work. How hard can it be to sit around and chop expenditure without raising taxes? Close the Human Rights Commission – who cares? It’s not like you are chopping off your own leg. If it were me I would have the time of my life saving taxpayers their hard-earned.

  41. Baldrick

    I’m calling BS on Hockey’s stroppiness. The only people who should fell stroppy are the voters. Hockey gets paid hundreds of thousands to fix the budget without pissing-off the voters.

  42. Combine_Dave

    Sinc only one person can save Australia that is TA!
    Stop this endless criticism you are only helping the ALP.

    I had thought Tony Abbott a great man capable of accomplishing anything. He sorted the Indons, stopped the boats, signed the multiple FTAs, sorted the Chinese, promised to ditch the slappers taxes, stood firm in the face of ALP-Holden’s rent seeking… but now this slapper like about face introducing a great big new tax.

    I am angry.

    But poor stack alas. The betrayal has broken his mind.

    Mr Abbott if you have any love in your heart left for your loyal supporters like stackja, you’ll reverse this great big new tax. Before it’s too late.

  43. Motelier

    How hard can it be to sit around and chop expenditure without raising taxes? Close the Human Rights Commission – who cares? It’s not like you are chopping off your own leg. If it were me I would have the time of my life saving taxpayers their hard-earned.

    Dan, I have said this so many times before.

    You and I are on the same page. Sloppy Joe needs to get a small or medium business owner on his advisory panel.

  44. Talleyrand1754

    My long suffering Father of 85 years who has never had his hand out for anything, has voted Liberal more times than he remembers, just told me a joke this evening that sums this absurd stuff up:

    “What’s the difference between a ALP and a Liberal Government? Just one thing, – Scott Morrison”

  45. IQSRLOW

    Has this deficit levy/tax been written in stone or something and has been released as the only thing confirmed as being a sure thing by the govt?

    I’ll admit, I am on the side that if Tony and Joe absolutely have to break a commitment then a new tax will send them to the opposition benches faster than Thomson pants to the floor in a brothel. They would be better off targeting the ABC/SBS/PPL .
    ABC= Minor coalition voter bleed
    SBS= No coalition voter bleed
    PPL= Slight bleeding of only Abbott himself.

    I fail to see why all the angst about something that isn’t a done deal…

  46. dan

    I fail to see why all the angst about something that isn’t a done deal…

    Yes, you fail.

    Treasurer Joe Hockey and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann, hit the phones on Wednesday to explain the proposal telling backbench MPs it was not a “new tax” but merely an increase in existing taxes and temporary at that.

    Look I don’t have that much trust in the lefty MSM but it seems remarkable that the whole thing would be completely made up. The MPs offices I rang certainly didn’t react angrily as thought they were victims of a conspiracy theory. In fact the ladies on the phone sounded like they were going to cry.

  47. johanna

    What strikes me about Joe’s blathering is how utterly incoherent it is. He is not doing well under pressure, a fatal quality for a Treasurer. He desperately wants to be loved, talks about “solemn promises” being kept but then mentions the mess left by the last lot as a mitigating factor. He is all over the place.

    Joe is by all acounts a nice guy, everyone likes him. But a good Treasurer needs to be a bit of a bastard who doesn’t care overly about what people think of him or her. A good Treasurer needs to be like the Financial Controller of the most profitable business I ever worked for, who had the word “NO” on a piece of cardboard stuck to the (closed) door of his office. And it wasn’t a joke.

    The combination of Hockey, who is no rocket surgeon, and Labor appointed Treasury officials, is a mistake that could cost Abbott government at the next election – if not before.

  48. Motelier

    I fail to see why all the angst about something that isn’t a done deal…

    It is because it is not a “done deal” that everyone should have the opportunity to voice their opinion.

    After it as been announced on Budget Night you are relying on the Labor/Greens to block it.

    The LNP need to get their act together. I cringed when Joe Hockey was called Sloppy Joe, but at the moment it fits so well.

  49. harrys on the boat

    Apologies for repeating but this clusterfuck of a Liberal government sickens me.

  50. Eddystone

    Australian taxpayers, already burdened with a full load of bloated leeches, are about to be ordered off to the blood bank to see if a few more drops can be squeezed out.

    How about applying the lit cigarette to a heap of those leeches instead?

  51. Gab

    In full knowledge of the budget situation you promised to repair the damage while not increasing taxes.

    Yes, I agree that is the point, to some extent. Abbott also told us, ad nauseum, before the election:

    “We will end the waste, pay back the debt, stop the big new taxes and stop the boats.”

    I don’t see them ending the waste or stopping big new taxes – oops, I mean levy – which is another weasel word for tax. (anyone else recall Abbott criticising gillard for saying a levy is not a tax or that a carbon price is not a tax?)

    As for Hockey, I would have more respect for him if he actually admitted the truth that yes, they are breaking a promise on this issue and then explain the reasons why it is necessary to do so in relation to the “budget emergency”. The cover-up, or in this case doing exactly what gillard did in saying she did not break a promise over the CO2 tax, is worse.

    If I was confident that the May budget would actually start to “end the waste” rather than keep the big-spending pattern of Labor, then I would not really be that concerned over Hockey/Abbott breaking their tax promise given the state of the budget that Labor and their Green cohorts have left us. It is understandable. HOWEVER, I am not at all confident that the Libs will keep their promise to end the waste given Abbott is still going ahead with the NDIS, NBN, RET, DA, ABC/SBS, all the artsy grants and yes, the PPL expansion, which will still cost us money despite some of it being funded by private companies.

    So far, all I can see is the Libs being no better than Labor in terms of their spending habits and not reducing the size of government substantially. Nor have they made any inroads towards removing the noose around business growth that is IR.

    If I could see Abbott start to address the government waste and curb government spending in the FIRST instance, then I wouldn’t give a fig about him later introducing his “levy”.

  52. Talleyrand1754

    Baldrick
    #1288202, posted on May 1, 2014 at 9:18 pm
    I’m calling BS on Hockey’s stroppiness. The only people who should fell stroppy are the voters. Hockey gets paid hundreds of thousands to fix the budget without pissing-off the voters

    Parlimentary salaries (base salary $195,130)
    Office Additional salary (%) Salary as of July 1
    Prime Minister 160 $507,338
    Deputy Prime Minister 105 $400,016
    Treasurer 87.5 $365,868
    Leader of the Opposition 85.0 $360,990
    Minister in Cabinet 72.5 $336,599
    Other ministers 57.5 $307,329
    Parliamentary secretary 25.0 $243,912

    FFS If you cant do it Joe Hockey, fuck off, and let someone who has balls to do it, get on with the job. You are paid 380K + to solve this, and not squib on the hard stuff.

    If you were a CFO in a major corporation the Institutional investors would be dumping the stock, and calling for your head you lazy shit.

    The same goes for you Finance’s Mathias Cormann, your forebears caused terror in Europe for centuries with various endless invasions; get bloody and ride over the top of the public service with your mace swinging and departmental Senior service heads flying off in bloody disarray.

  53. Chris M

    Not an economist but I would have thought an income tax reduction would have actually resulted in more government revenue in the longer term; even if modest people see this as a positive and tend to perk up and likely would spend more. There is so much disincentive towards folk doing more work in this country already.

  54. Gab

    Look I don’t have that much trust in the lefty MSM but it seems remarkable that the whole thing would be completely made up.

    I believe Terry McCrann broke the levy story and he maintains it will go ahead as will the $6 medical payment.

  55. Sinclair’s post is absolutely on the money. Particularly this:

    What the Labor Party did or didn’t promise is entirely irrelevant – they were tossed out of office at the last election and you were elected to office on the promise of no new taxes.

    and this

    In full knowledge of the budget situation you promised to repair the damage while not increasing taxes. To renege on that promise is simply to have told a lie.

    The worst thing is that Labor called them on it during the election. We dismissed it at the time but apparently they were right. Labor said that Hockey’s budget didn’t add up. oh ho ho cried the coalition supporters, a bit rich coming from you! But it was true.

  56. Splatacrobat

    It’s like the parable of the prodigal son except this time the Father asks the faithful eldest son to not only set a place at the table but to also pay the gambling and whoring debts of the wastrel.

  57. I believe Terry McCrann broke the levy story and he maintains it will go ahead as will the $6 medical payment.

    Nobody cares about the medical payment. Unlike the tax increase it’s not going to lose them an election.

  58. johanna

    Err, Mathias Cormann’s name is as Dutch as Gouda cheese. He is an Afrikaaner, i.e. ethnically Dutch.

    Please leave off the German hate speak, which is in any case irrelevant.

    My private view is that Matthias is sitting in his office chewing glass over this travesty. I suppose that some here would like him to resign or something to help along the “government split” headlines.

  59. Chris M

    In my case enough to start reconsidering studying for an MBA.

    Not sure if you were being serious but if so it might take more than that to concern them, these days an MBA is a worthless scrap of paper.

  60. egg_

    Core, non core, solemn, they are all variations of the same thing. Even my old Granny knows a promise is a promise. It’s only politicians that seek to redifine the word like Dante describing the nine circles of hell.

    What next, the new reality?

  61. Eddystone

    Splatacrobat
    #1288235, posted on May 1, 2014 at 9:47 pm
    It’s like the parable of the prodigal son except this time the Father asks the faithful eldest son to not only set a place at the table but to also pay the gambling and whoring debts of the wastrel.

    Yes, we are to pay off the debt, but also keep up the line of credit at the casino and brothel!

  62. Motelier

    My problem is the waste on future projects/policies from the Liars party.

    I have absolutely no idea why these yet to be implemented policies are being funded. Cut the funding now. No-one will ever know the difference.

    Give me a DD now.

    The senate change just might surprise some people.

  63. Eddystone

    Please leave off the German hate speak, which is in any case irrelevant.

    I assumed he meant Vikings?

  64. Combine_Dave

    Guys I’ve had a look at the budget (a preview if you will) and the figures are in;

    1 new Tony Tax + 1 PPL Levy + 1 GP Tax + minimal or rather ‘future’ reductions in welfare + levels of spending Swany would approve of = A 1 term Coalition Government followed by a Dolly Shorten Spendathon = royally screwed Tax Payers.

  65. Combine_Dave

    Incorrect, via google;

    ‘ Mathias Hubert Paul Cormann is an Australian politician of German-speaking Belgian descent. He is a Liberal Party of …’

    But I don’t hate him, rather I disapprove of the message he was selling. Carrying water for Hockey and closet socialist Abbott?

  66. Combine_Dave

    PS; No, I expect Hockey to resign over this.*

    *By this I mean if the budget does turn out to be as gutless as the Liberals are currently promoting it as being.

  67. Ant

    The only way I could accept this “Debt Levy’ would be if they gave it the official name:

    The Kevin Rudd Comes Home To Crap In My Nest Tax

  68. Perpetual Motion

    Abbott’s a liar. Hockey’s a liar. Both are suicidally stupid.

  69. Johno

    Abbott was always going to have to break an election promise. His package of fixing Labor’s budget mess, no new taxes and his own big spending proposals didn’t add up.

    For me, he has broken the wrong promise. Liberalism is suppose to be about limited government, so the only broken promise consistent with liberal principles was to dump his spending promises such as new spending on his stupid PPL or his stupid promise not slash the Left’s media budget.

    But staying in power isn’t about staying true to your principles. It’s about crafting a story for the here and now that will keep a majority of the voters with you. The idealist might not like, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

    Abbott and Hockey have, by necessity, been banging on about sharing the pain. They have talked about cutting spending. As the bulk of the spending is spent on people on lower incomes, the only way of visibily spreading the pain to those on higher incomes was to lift their marginal income tax rates. Calling it a deceit levy is just marketing.

    I don’t like it and it is a broken promise, but when I put myself in their shoes, I can understand why they will do it.

    Even though it is understandable, it’s important that Tony and Joe get hammered by their own side. They have to feel a lot of political pain about it so they don’t feel they can get away with it again.

    I’m not sure if in the long run this will hurt wee willy more than it will hurt Abbott. He’s threatening to block this measure that Abbott doesn’t have a mandate for, while he is also blocking measures (carbon dioxide and mining taxes) that Abbott does have a mandate for. He is going to start looking pretty silly.

    Add in a Royal Commission into union corruption, and wee willy may be unelectable by next year.

  70. Tom

    Sinc is correct. If we’d wanted a Labor government, a majority would have voted for them. Abbott wants to deliver Labor programs which is why he is refusing to cut spending. Fuck Labor’s programs. That’s reckless waste that we want cut. Abbott is rubbing shit in the faces of the people who voted for him.

  71. egg_

    The Kevin Rudd Comes Home To Crap In My Nest Tax

    There’s now an opening for KRudd to do a “Lazarus with a triple bypass”.

  72. Splatacrobat

    Abbott is rubbing shit in the faces of the people who voted for him.

    And to add insult to injury it’s Labor’s shit Abbott is rubbing in.

  73. I don’t like it and it is a broken promise, but when I put myself in their shoes, I can understand why they will do it.

    They’re doing it to fund direct action, the NDIS, etc…

  74. Abbott wants to deliver Labor programs which is why he is refusing to cut spending. Fuck Labor’s programs. That’s reckless waste that we want cut.

    exactly.
    nail on the head.
    If Labor’s programs were so popular they’d still be in power.

  75. Talleyrand1754

    Please leave off the German hate speak, which is in any case irrelevant.

    I assumed he meant Vikings?

    I was referring to the Norse, Goths/Ostrogoths, Lombards, Burgundians, Franks, Allemagnie, Vandals, and Saxons.
    Cormann is a German speaking Belgian by birth.

  76. Splatacrobat

    Abbott’s shit sandwich. The filling is all Labor’s, the nine grains gluten free bread is courtesy of the Greens and Joe just adds the salt and pepper.

  77. It’s still not too late for them to see the light.
    They have a small window of time, before they instantly and permanently meet the same fate as Gillard.

  78. Combine_Dave

    Herr Cormann, wir brauche keine neue Steuer.

    Labor nur gib uns sie. Du darfst nicht uns geben!

  79. Combine_Dave

    brauchen rather. Pardon my poor spelling at this time of night.

  80. Talleyrand1754

    Mattias, Mehr Steuer gibt es nur einer Regierungszeit. Verstehen!

  81. Grigory M

    Hockey, who is no rocket surgeon

    He’s no brain scientist either ;)

  82. johanna

    Belgians don’t speak German as a native language.

    Either they speak French (of a sort) or they speak Dutch (of a sort).

    I was born in the Netherlands within 80km of the Belgian border, and have no difficulty understanding Belgian TV shows and movies in Flemish. It is very close to my parents’ dialect. And, it is not German. Not remotely.

    Where did this nonsense come from, Wikipedia?

  83. Rob

    The premature ejaculations and negativity here are distressing.
    Tried Lateline instead.
    Snow-cone is about to talk to Chris Bowen.
    I know what they will say.
    That’s it, I’m going to bed.

  84. egg_

    Hockey, who is no rocket surgeon scientist Engineer is the correct term, anyhoo…

  85. sabrina

    Very well put Sinclair, thanks. But will the thick skins listen?

  86. dan

    Labor nur gib uns sie. Du darfst nicht uns geben!

    Nur Labor gibt sie uns. Sie, aber, dürften sie nicht uns geben.

    FTFY

    But he is Belgian. Perhaps if he was German he could help balance a budget. Unfortunately our Greece/PIIGS actually live in our own country.

  87. Splatacrobat

    I have managed to get a copy of Cormann’s talking point on the budget for tomorrow:

    Achtung!
    Alles Lookenspeepers!
    Das budget is nicht fer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben.
    Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen, und poppencorken mit spitzensparken.
    Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets!

    Relaxen und watchen das blikenlights.

  88. Grigory M

    Give me a DD now.

    Motelier – it seems to me that a DD is now unlikely. The Government has been unable to get a trigger so far and it doesn’t look like they will before the window of opportunity closes. In any event, who could now trust them with a joint sitting of both Houses?

  89. Combine_Dave

    Belgians don’t speak German as a native language.

    Either they speak French (of a sort) or they speak Dutch (of a sort).

    You are wrong. German is one of the three official languages of Belgium, and ethnic German-Belgian do exist, infact Cormann is one. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    The Dutch are clearly much worse

  90. johanna

    But looking around the Coalition, who could do the job? Only Matthias, who is currently sitting in his office sticking pins in cuddly Coalition figures, hopefully with a good bottle of red at hand.

    Unfortunately, being in the Senate makes it very difficult to be Treasurer.

  91. Grigory M

    I was referring to the Norse, Goths/Ostrogoths, Lombards, Burgundians, Franks, Allemagnie, Vandals, and Saxons.
    Cormann is a German speaking Belgian by birth.

    The science is in – he’s actually Hagar the Horrible.

  92. egg_

    Abbott’s shit sandwich.

    The kamikaze tax… or khazi tax for short.

  93. Combine_Dave

    But he is Belgian. Perhaps if he was German he could help balance a budget. Unfortunately our Greece/PIIGS actually live in our own country

    Hahaha so my imagined dream team of Cormann and Morrison would still result in Labor lite failure?

    Pity.

    I guess Hockey’s ‘end the age of entitlement’ BS was as hollow and as empty as Kevin 07s ‘this reckless waste must stop’.

    Once they get their hands on the levers of power why would they seek to reduce said power through cuts and dept closures?

    PS: Thanks for the corrections. My poor old grandma would be rolling in her grave if she could see my poor grammar/spelling.

  94. Amused

    So it turns out that 1.8 million of our 11 million or so workers are actually public servants (at federal, state and local levels). That figure does not include our defence force.

    Do we really need that many public servants? It works out to be over 16% of our entire workforce.

    Do we also need to pay those public servants what amounts to in many jurisdictions, far more substantial paid parental leave entitlements than are offered to privately employed citizens?

    Our largest private employer is Woolworths, with a total workforce of about 90,000 employees. There are twenty times more employees in the public sector than are employed by our largest private employer.

    I find my interactions with Woolworths to be far more pleasurable and of value to me than my interactions with any of the three tiers of government.

    Why is that?

  95. Steve of Glasshouse

    Jeez; this has turned into a cough up lung butter thread..

  96. Talleyrand1754

    Belgians don’t speak German as a native language.

    Either they speak French (of a sort) or they speak Dutch (of a sort).

    I was born in the Netherlands within 80km of the Belgian border, and have no difficulty understanding Belgian TV shows and movies in Flemish. It is very close to my parents’ dialect. And, it is not German. Not remotely.

    Where did this nonsense come from, Wikipedia?

    No Johanna, it is from here .

    German Community in Belgium

    Note Eupen is the birthplace of Cormann. See his Senator Page at Parliamentary website

  97. johanna

    You are wrong. German is one of the three official languages of Belgium, and ethnic German-Belgian do exist, infact Cormann is one. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Yep, it’s an official language like French is an official language in Canada. It’s a sop, but if you don’t speak the mainstream language, you are going nowhere outside your tiny enclave.

    My family name is German, but we have been Dutch for at least 150 years (by borders). And now we are Australian.

    I deplore people accusing Cormann of being a German warmonger just because of his surname.

    Cheap tactics, worthy of the worst of the twittermongers.

  98. Talleyrand1754

    Jeez; this has turned into a cough up lung butter thread..

    Don’t insult the Flems, – Steve

  99. Combine_Dave

    I deplore people accusing Cormann of being a German warmonger just because of his surname

    I must have missed that deplorable comment. Sorry!

  100. Talleyrand1754

    Johanna, my family are French or German (Alsace Lorraine); and German or Polish (Prussian). It depends upon which of many wars you wish to take.

    We also try not to mention a possible relation cited as a Nazi war criminal at Nuremberg trials. (He was shot by partisans before the war ended)

    So ease down on your teutonic abruptness a little…..

  101. Grigory M

    So ease down on your teutonic abruptness a little…..

    Tallyman – maybe you could ease up on making dumb comments, since that’s what caused Johanna to be a bit stroppy.

  102. johanna

    Teutonic abruptness?

    My best friends call it Dutch directness.

    Others have less complimentary terms.

    Anyway, my point is that introducing pseudo-racialism into political discussion is counter-productive and just plain silly.

  103. M Ryutin

    Okayyyyy This was the turning point. When this comment was made that “Abbott wants to deliver Labor programs which is why he is refusing to cut spending”
    that was the end of times.

    The hysteria about the budget rumours had reached the depths of a long Daily Kos comment thread on continuous loop!

    Sorry, Catellaxians, but you need to take a good look at yourselves. Many months after an election, months in which every man and his dog on Catellaxy has been begging or demanding Abbott to break promise after promise, massive breakdown has occurred because it is rumoured that he has done so at last.

    Not that long ago, a Malcolm Fraser-like “do-nothing” government was to be Abbott’s brand and now that he and parts of the team seem serious about fixing this mess (but trying to do a Costello and ensuring that equity gets some of the more well off to pay a token amount towards it) all political sense goes out the window.

    No, on second or third thoughts Kos or others of that ilk are an unfair comparison. Hard Left might be as hard line, but they never lose sight of the main game. This is a war to the finish, a zero-sum game. Never abandon the Left. Always “defeat the Right” is not “everything” it is The Only Thing.

    The Right have yet to grasp that

  104. JohnA

    Splatacrobat
    #1288309, posted on May 1, 2014 at 10:47 pm

    I have managed to get a copy of Cormann’s talking point on the budget for tomorrow:

    Achtung!
    Alles Lookenspeepers!

    Score +10!
    Big Grin!

  105. Gab

    Teutonic abruptness?

    My best friends call it Dutch directness.

    Hmmm … I must also have Dutch somewhere in my ancestry in that case.

  106. Talleyrand1754

    Welterusten Johanna, I’ll stop teasing you now.

  107. Infidel Tiger

    Who gives a fuck what that soft cock Cormann is. Dutch, Flemish, Irish, who cares. I’ll tell you what the jelly backed little poof is – a one termer.

    Good riddance nancy boys. Enjoy your parliamentary pensions. Hope you all choke on a Qantas Club peanut and die.

  108. JC

    Dutch the boring. So are the Belgians. The worst of course are the Swiss who may as well be robots. The Swiss Germans are bores while the French Swiss are just arseholes. The Italian Swiss are…they just run the banks that launder money.

  109. JC

    Who gives a fuck what that soft cock Cormann is. Dutch, Flemish, Irish, who cares. I’ll tell you what the jelly backed little poof is – a one termer.

    We could have him deported without the need for a trial and execution when the revolution comes.

  110. Faye

    If I remember correctly each Australian – man, woman and child – owes around $12,000 plus interest.
    Wait till the budget to see what’s really on the board. In the meantime, give the Coalition a break. They have been in only 8 months. Labor can’t even admit it’s their own crap the Coalition is cleaning up. If you don’t like what the Coalition has done, vote them out in 2016 and go back to Labor/Greens… that should fix everything up well and truly.

    What I would like is for so-called Climate Change to be debunked and everything connected to it. Look at the money we’d save!

  111. James B

    The budget wouild be balanced in a year or two if they just didn’t grow spending.

    Think about that. If they just kept the budget the same this year as it was last year, and they did that a couple times, the budget would be balanced. No cuts in any area. Just no increases.

    But Red Tony doesn’t want to do that. He wants to massively increase budget spending, and pay for it by taxing us all more.

  112. Infidel Tiger

    give the Coalition a break.

    I’ll give every one of them a break and a bonus ruptured spleen just for starters.

    Lying repugnant swines.

  113. JC

    Faye seriously, just shut up.

    If the Libs are cleaning the Liars Party mess then they should be cutting spending not raising taxes which underwrites that spending. Do you understand the difference here?

    And no, we don’t need to vote for Liars and Greenscum. We can vote for the LDP or spoil the ballot.

    Fuck the Libs, the dishonest swine.

  114. Grigory M

    If the Libs are cleaning the Liars Party mess then they should be cutting spending not raising taxes which underwrites that spending.

    Correct.

  115. twostix

    Joe is by all acounts a nice guy, everyone likes him.

    I have one story about old nice guy Joe.

    Way back in 2010 when the Liberals were despised and Labor ran Canberra like an invincible juggernaught I stood in Canberra airport early one frosty Monday morning awaiting an arrival from Sydney. All the comcar drivers stood beside me waiting for the same plane. Many Labor politicians disembarked and like at a year six “formal” paired off with their respective ALP Ministers. Then oh look here comes Hockey. He hesitates in the face of the little sewing circle of drivers. They smell blood. The comcar drivers smirk and look at him. He looks at them…”Are…any of you guys for me?” the then fat man asks like a frightened kitten. “Grumble, grumble, smirk” go the comcar drivers amongst themselves. No answer. After an embarrassingly long moment of silence we loudly hear “ANY BODY HERE FOR MR HOCKEY?” from one particularly smirky comcar driver. A private joke apparently. “Nah”, “nope”, “nup”. Mr Hockey dejectedly walks off and exits the terminal taking a taxi. They chuckle.

    “Awkward” I hear someone say.

    End.

  116. Yobbo

    Not sure why this comes as a surprise to anyone. The Libs have never been in favour of cutting taxes or spending and never will be.

    If that’s what you want then the only party in Australia you should be voting for is the LDP.

  117. johanna

    twostix, not sure if I believe your story 100%, but it illustrates the point.

    The Treasurer should be a giant, fire-breathing dragon, jealously guarding the nation’s wealth.

    Instead we have a cuddly koala, a Bearof Little Brain, in charge of the treasure.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  118. Michel Lasouris

    Faye, I’m with you 100% on this. What I can’t fathom is Sinc’s obvious antagonism to the Libs and Joe in particular, it seems so unlike his usual amiable self ( except when he calls me a “sock puppet” whatever that might mean) . I’m for giving the Libs the benefit of the doubt for now.Let’s see what the budget is like and in the meantime just settle down folks. The alternatives don’t even bear thinking about; Labor, who can’t even accept the mess they left…total, utter denial; the Greens??? and what else. Oh yes Katter and Clive for Krissakes. What a pair of looneys. ( Do I hear an 18c rumbling in the distance?

  119. Yobbo

    I’m for giving the Libs the benefit of the doubt for now

    Why?

    Has there ever been a Liberal government in history who cut government spending during their term? When was the last one?

  120. Megan

    Beautifully put, Sinc. Anyone who can’t see the damage done by breaking promises to the electorate should not be in Parliament let alone Treasurer. And as Eddystone pointed out at 9:44pm with his how to deal with the leeches comment, if promises have to be broken then break the ones the Labor Party loaded them down with. Anything else is going to cost them the support of their core base.

  121. Megan

    Instead we have a cuddly koala, a Bearof Little Brain, in charge of the treasure.

    Thank the various deities that he chickened out of going for party leadership. Imagine him as Prime Minister, waffling and weaving and bringing further ruination.

  122. Senile Old Guy

    Faye, I’m with you 100% on this. … I’m for giving the Libs the benefit of the doubt for now. Let’s see what the budget is like and in the meantime just settle down folks. The alternatives don’t even bear thinking about…

    Why give them the benefit of the doubt? The level of detail, and level of justification, clearly indicate that the deficit tax is coming. The time to kick up a fuss is now; f*cking pointless doing it after the tax is in place.

    And, for those arguing that Abbott has to keep promises on NDIS, NBN, etc., why? Abbott did Labor over repeatedly for breaking promises — Gillard’s lies killed her — but now he is going to hand Shorten exactly the ammunition he lacks but needs.

    If Abbott is going to break promises, then he has to do so carefully and with measured forethought. And a little political sense would not go astray. Soaking “high” income earners for more money alienates his constituency but will win him no votes. Green supporters and rusted on Labor voters will not flock to the Liberal tent.

    The alternatives do bear thinking about. As others have said, if we are going to have Labor policies, we may as well have a Labor government; at least we will know what to expect.

    The Government has the power to reach into our pockets and take our money. The very least we can expect is that it does so honestly, telling us before being elected what it will take; and that it uses that money wisely. The deficit tax fails on both points.

    If the Coalition falls at the next election because of this tax, I hope they learn their lesson.

  123. James In Footscray

    ‘Be mislead’? SAfEng?

  124. CatAttack

    If I hear one more commentator say paying a miserable $6 co payment will set us down the path to an American style Health System I will bloody scream.

  125. MT Isa Miner

    Splatacrobat

    #1288275, posted on May 1, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    Abbott’s shit sandwich. The filling is all Labor’s, the nine grains gluten free bread is courtesy of the Greens and Joe just adds the salt and pepper.

    Bloody right, Splat. I want MEAT from Abbott. I voted for meat and I will be mighty pissed if I don’t get meat.
    Hockey better fire the bullet at the killer so he can start cutting. Lots of us are getting hungry.

  126. If the Libs are cleaning the Liars Party mess

    Sadly, you can’t use the phrase “Liars Party” any more…. :-(
    It’s both of them now and the term only causes confusion.

  127. Miney

    Well it looks like after reading what Tony Abbott And Joe Hockey a lot of the Faithful are going to be let down.
    Go ahead with this And Tony Abbott will prove he is no better than Rudd and Gillard.
    After 4 years of defending them and putting up with constant abuse from the green and Labor trolls we see that the trolls may actually be right .
    I hope they are wrong Tony I guess the voters will know on the 13th

  128. Also, why introduce long term changes to the pension this year? Couldn’t it have waited till another time, like, not their first budget?

  129. Louis Hissink

    So what’s it going to be – a socialist economic nightmare, but I repeat myself, and not telling porkies, new taxes etc, or escaping the socialist nightmare while having to tell porkies. Damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.

    Personally I don’t anyone in the Coalition fully understands the economic minefield that the previous socialist government laid for them, apart from the possibility that both are aiming for the same goal – one puts it in place, the next figuring out how to pay for it.

    It looks very much like we are sliding down the slippery slope a lot faster than I anticipated. Just remember that Rhodes Scholarships are not awarded to nasty anarchic capitalists.

  130. Bear Necessities

    I can just see a “Commission of Audit” in 2025 commissioned by Wyatt Roy. It recommends ending direct action, defecit tax, ppl, ndis etc due to unaffordability or it doesn’t raise the money needed.

  131. Leigh

    Why aren’t we talking about the alternative government?
    All the vitriol is being directed at the current government.
    All I read here is criticism of government solutions to a problem created by successive incompetent labor governments.
    People need to take a step back and have a damned good look at six years of labor.
    You now have the voters being stirred up by labor to bring down a coalition government.
    Simply for trying to fix a problem they themselves created by reckless spending.
    Does anybody here really think what the government proposes to do is a vote winner?
    The term of this government won’t fix labors country wrecking thought bubbles but it will put the country back on track.
    The coalition has punted that the voters at the next election won’t back labor no matter how bad labor try’s to paint them.
    They’re punting on people seeing the “fix” as far less painful than the cause of the pain.
    Labor.
    Its a pretty safe bet to me.

  132. Leigh

    This update a couple of minutes ago over at Bolta a couple of minutes ago says it all.
    Why aren’t we talking to Shorten and labors alternative solution?
    But as the audit commission says, something must be done – and it’s its not these changes, then what?

    Under the “business as usual” scenario the commonwealth’s budget remains in deficit out to 2023-24 and beyond.

    If this occurred, Australia would record an unprecedented run of 16 consecutive years aof deficits (and more in prospect), with net debt rising to around 17 per cent of GDP, or some $440bn.

    Under the “reform” scenario the budget returns to surplus in 2019-20, with the surplus growing to 1 per cent of GDP by 2023-24.

  133. .

    Yobbo
    #1288461, posted on May 2, 2014 at 4:25 am
    I’m for giving the Libs the benefit of the doubt for now

    Why?

    Has there ever been a Liberal government in history who cut government spending during their term? When was the last one?

    The earlier half of Menzies tenure and John Gorton?

    http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1156/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=01_Brief_History.asp

    Effectively, irrelevant ancient history.

  134. .

    Yobbo
    #1288410, posted on May 2, 2014 at 1:56 am
    Not sure why this comes as a surprise to anyone. The Libs have never been in favour of cutting taxes or spending and never will be.

    If that’s what you want then the only party in Australia you should be voting for is the LDP.

    Correct. Some people don’t get it. Join the LDP or start your own conservative party if we’re not to your taste.

  135. .

    Grigory M
    #1288386, posted on May 2, 2014 at 12:45 am
    If the Libs are cleaning the Liars Party mess then they should be cutting spending not raising taxes which underwrites that spending.

    Correct.

    Correct correct, JC and Grig.

    Starve the beast. Scorch the earth. Demolish the poison pills of a lame duck government.

  136. .

    If I remember correctly each Australian – man, woman and child – owes around $12,000 plus interest.

    No, I fucking don’t and I will minimise my tax bill to the full extent of the law to ensure I DON’T pay my UNFAIR share. What’s a bond holder gonna do? Repossess my car? Good luck, ^%$*!

    “Abbott wants to deliver Labor programs which is why he is refusing to cut spending”

    Sorry M Ryutin – this is utterly true or we don’t need any tax increases.

  137. Rob

    Way too many ugly lefties dominating and dragging this thread down into the filth.
    Leigh at 8.05 am nails it – who got us into this financial mess in the first instance?
    Much bigger questions remain unanswered:
    1. How would Shorten address the appalling state of the Australian economy that Labor delivered?
    2. Is Shorten capable of making a credible response to Hockey’s actual budget?
    (Shorten’s “triple A credit rating mantras” simply won’t cut it)

  138. Vicki


    My long suffering Father of 85 years who has never had his hand out for anything, has voted Liberal more times than he remembers, just told me a joke this evening that sums this absurd stuff up:

    “What’s the difference between a ALP and a Liberal Government? Just one thing, – Scott Morrison”

    Tallyrand1754 – tell your wonderful 85 year old father that he is indeed a prescient man!

  139. Gab

    who got us into this financial mess in the first instance?
    Much bigger questions remain unanswered:
    1. How would Shorten address the appalling state of the Australian economy that Labor delivered?
    2. Is Shorten capable of making a credible response to Hockey’s actual budget?
    (Shorten’s “triple A credit rating mantras” simply won’t cut it)

    Labor got us into this mess.
    1. Who cares? the Libs are in government now, more important to know what they are going to do about fixing up Labor’s mess.
    2. No.

  140. Dan

    I wonder if the LNP will use the levy as a threat, that if the senate doesn’t pass the necessary cuts and repeals then its either a DD or a raise in income tax.

  141. Gab

    who got us into this financial mess in the first instance?
    Much bigger questions remain unanswered:
    1. How would Shorten address the appalling state of the Australian economy that Labor delivered?
    2. Is Shorten capable of making a credible response to Hockey’s actual budget?
    (Shorten’s “triple A credit rating mantras” simply won’t cut it)

    Labor got us into this mess.
    1. Who cares? The Libs are in government now, more important to know what they are going to do about fixing up Labor’s mess…
    2. No.

  142. Gab

    1. How would Shorten address the appalling state of the Australian economy that Labor delivered?
    2. Is Shorten capable of making a credible response to Hockey’s actual budget?

    1. Who cares? Shorten is not in power. How does asking what he would do fix the current budget situation?
    2. No but how does asking that fix the current budget situation? The Libs are in power and it’s more important to understand what they are doing now.

  143. Gab

    Sorry guys but my comments were not getting through (and no notice they were in moderation) so I tried a couple of different things. And now all the comments have been released hence the duplication.

  144. brc

    Not that long ago, a Malcolm Fraser-like “do-nothing” government was to be Abbott’s brand and now that he and parts of the team seem serious about fixing this mess (but trying to do a Costello and ensuring that equity gets some of the more well off to pay a token amount towards it) all political sense goes out the window.

    Missing the point.

    Abbott is not adding on a debt levy to fix the budget. It raises to little for that. The amount raised equals the direct action plan.

    He is adding a debt levy so he can sell the package to labor votersand make them like him.

    Never mind that it is bad economic policy to add income taxes
    Never mind that it is bad politics to break a ‘no new taxes’ pledge
    Never mind that it is atrocious to break a promise to implement a clas warfare policy not even labor dreamed up

    What’s important is to make sure the commentators in the ABC feel like the budget is ‘fair’.

    If a promise is to be broken, the promise should be for spending that hasn’t yet occurred.

    Like the NDIS. Like direct action. Like PPL. They can be ‘temporarily delayed’ until the budget is better. It’s the same thing as a’ temporary tax’ but it’s better for the economy.

    Or just do what was promised and cut cut cut.

  145. Abbott is not adding on a debt levy to fix the budget. It raises to little for that. The amount raised equals the direct action plan.

    Quoted for truth and insight

  146. Gab

    Abbott is not adding on a debt levy to fix the budget. It raises to little for that.

    Exactly! And any wonder people here are a bit angry about the direct Liberals are taking: big spending, big government just like the last lot.

    In Hockey’s interview this morning he was talking about tax reform that they will be taking to the next election. That’s really all that’s important to them. The next election.

  147. brc

    Really, my point is. Who loves Direct Action? The greens hate it, labor hates it, the media hates it, most liberal voters have it.

    Postponing direct action until it is affordable gives his critics ammunition for ‘tony Abbott doesn’t care about da global Warmening’.

    In 3 years time, how many votes will that cost him? None.

    In 3 years time, how many votes will a broken ‘no new taxes’ pledge cost him?

    Plenty.

    Is wasting public money on ‘carbon abatement’ good for the economy? defintively not. If the public wanted carbon abatement, they would be purchasing it already, on the free market.

    Is increasing income taxes good for the economy? Definitely not. It removes discretionary, high value spending by consumers with wasteful, Unproductive spending by the government.

    Increasing income taxes and wasting money on direct action is doubly bad. They are both sops to the governments enemies, and one will lose more votes than the other.

    Madness. Political idiocy of the highest order.

    Do a survey of what the you would like the government to do. The results would be:
    1) lower taxes
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    (daylight)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    n. Save da planet from the terror of global warming

    Why can’t a single person in the liberal cabinet raise this point?

  148. Faye

    JC, don’t presume to know what I believe and understand. I do believe fervently that cutting taxes is good. People are better at creating wealth and jobs than governments.
    Infidel Tiger, I think you are the one walking around with a ruptured spleen.
    Yobbo, well vote for the DLP but get your facts right first.
    Dot/Dash, sorry whoever you are, Australians, thanks to Labor, don’t have surplus – they have DEBT. Because you are an Australian – you owe part of that debt and whether you like it or not, we have to figure out how we are going to bloodywell pay it off!
    I don’t disagree with some of the things you above characters are saying so let’s all be friends and help Australia out of this mess.

  149. .

    No Faye, whomever the fuck you are (and you are not my friend), I will not pay.

  150. .

    Yobbo, well vote for the DLP but get your facts right first.

    No Faye, again, bugger off with your Liberal Party lies and spin.

    It is the LDP, NOT the dlp you ignorant bloody moron, the partys name is “Liberal Democratic Party”, and at the cat we’ve got facts and we’re laying down truth bombs onto the tin eared Liberal Party HQ right now.

  151. calli

    People are better at creating wealth and jobs than governments.

    Can’t argue with that. But governments are experts at piddling away the wealth that people create.

    Faye, a word of advice. There are no ‘friends’ here, just people with ideas and arguments. And strong personalities, albeit with a dash of Typewriter Tourettes.

    The hornet’s nest has been stirred by two things. First the lie about ‘no new taxes’ and then the stupidity of continuing Labor’s spending. And to top it off, a pathetic attempt to spin it.

    I’m a conservative with a strong libertarian streak (which has become stronger as the years pile up – could be the wisdom of age, could be impending dementia). You’ll find all shades here at the Cat.

  152. Pat Heuvel

    A question if I may, Sinclair: I’m certainly not an economist but (if memory serves) it has been said in these pages that decreasing taxes would actually stimulate the economy by encouraging spending. Does this still hold, and, if so, how profound (or how broad) should be the impact? And why wouldn’t Mr Hockey’s advisers coach him in this direction?

  153. Way too many ugly lefties dominating and dragging this thread down into the filth.

    I’m not seeing lefties, I’m seeing a pissed off base.
    Look, if the Libs wanted our understanding then maybe they shouldn’t have spent the last six months ‘reaching out’ and sucking up to the left. I’m not going to walk through the laundry list again. Fuck em. They don’t care about us, and now we don’t care about them.

  154. .

    Rob
    #1288667, posted on May 2, 2014 at 9:38 am
    Way too many ugly lefties dominating and dragging this thread down into the filth.

    You’re an imbecile.

  155. A question if I may, Sinclair: I’m certainly not an economist but (if memory serves) it has been said in these pages that decreasing taxes would actually stimulate the economy by encouraging spending. Does this still hold, and, if so, how profound (or how broad) should be the impact?

    Yes, it’s huge, but not just through spending. Also through private investment. If people have more cash, they have more money to invest; and guess what. The public, and the private sector in general, are far, far better at figuring out the best ways to invest money for good returns. Those returns mean that the economy grows and the nation gets wealthier.

  156. Rabz

    Yes, commenters calling for reduced government spending and lower taxes are now “ugly lefties”.

    FFS. :x

  157. stackja

    Sinclair Davidson
    #1288172, posted on May 1, 2014 at 8:57 pm

    Stop this endless criticism you are only helping the ALP.

    My views on this are similar to Fleeced. If we’re to have ALP policy, we should have an ALP government.

    We still have an ALP government in the bureaucracy and media and Senate. You are not helping. So be it. If you want more ALP is it your decision.

    Perpetual Motion
    #1288174, posted on May 1, 2014 at 8:58 pm
    Give it up Stackja. TA is proving himself to be no better than Gillard. He’s a liar.

    To my way of thinking you are not talking sense. Again so be it. Again if you want more ALP it is your decision.

  158. .

    Sinclair helps the ALP?

    He was the first to criticise my guest post ‘Put the Greens Last’. He said he would always put the ALP last.

    On what planet this helps the ALP, most of us haven’t heard of it yet.

  159. Oh by the way Libs, thanks for throwing us a bone with the knighthoods thing. That really made up for it all. We completely fell for that substantial policy that was not at all a meaningless, token gesture to throw a bone to ‘conservatives’.

  160. stackja

    .
    #1288835, posted on May 2, 2014 at 12:17 pm
    Sinclair helps the ALP?
    He was the first to criticise my guest post ‘Put the Greens Last’. He said he would always put the ALP last.
    On what planet this helps the ALP, most of us haven’t heard of it yet.

    Criticism of TA is helping the ALP. MSM will use any anti-TA by anyone to destroy TA. And Australia will be in a lot more trouble. But if this site contributors and commentators want the ALP to prosper so be it. No one else is going to save Australia in the short term but TA. The left are happy with the mess and the left hope to make a bigger mess. Just let TA get on with the job of trying to save Australia and stopping the incessant criticism of his efforts. Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term. Six years of RGR have created the biggest problem, in my opinion, Australia has ever faced.

  161. will

    Joe is by all acounts a nice guy, everyone likes him.

    I have one story about old nice guy Joe.

    Way back in 2010 when the Liberals were despised and Labor ran Canberra like an invincible juggernaught I stood in Canberra airport early one frosty Monday morning awaiting an arrival from Sydney. All the comcar drivers stood beside me waiting for the same plane. Many Labor politicians disembarked and like at a year six “formal” paired off with their respective ALP Ministers. Then oh look here comes Hockey. He hesitates in the face of the little sewing circle of drivers. They smell blood. The comcar drivers smirk and look at him. He looks at them…”Are…any of you guys for me?” the then fat man asks like a frightened kitten. “Grumble, grumble, smirk” go the comcar drivers amongst themselves. No answer. After an embarrassingly long moment of silence we loudly hear “ANY BODY HERE FOR MR HOCKEY?” from one particularly smirky comcar driver. A private joke apparently. “Nah”, “nope”, “nup”. Mr Hockey dejectedly walks off and exits the terminal taking a taxi. They chuckle.

    “Awkward” I hear someone say.

    End.

    sounds like a good reason to privatise the ComCar service.

    I have heard stories about how they sit around all day and play cards and smoke.

  162. Infidel Tiger

    You don’t get it Stackja. You are too thick to understand the material.

    We will never ever tolerate being lied to, increased taxes or less freedom.

    We are zealots for better and smaller government. If you don’t like that, take a holiday involving sex and travel.

  163. calli

    Will, that story is enough to invoke the Rabz Doctrine.

  164. brc

    Criticism of TA is helping the ALP. MSM will use any anti-TA by anyone to destroy TA. And Australia will be in a lot more trouble. But if this site contributors and commentators want the ALP to prosper so be it. No one else is going to save Australia in the short term but TA. The left are happy with the mess and the left hope to make a bigger mess. Just let TA get on with the job of trying to save Australia and stopping the incessant criticism of his efforts. Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term. Six years of RGR have created the biggest problem, in my opinion, Australia has ever faced.

    If Abbott wants to stop the criticism, he could listen to his base and change tack.

    By your reasoning Turnbull would have rolled over on the ETS and we should have all supported him.

    Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term

    Incorrect. Cutting government spending and taxes always improves the economy, in the short, medium and long terms. Giving people back money to spend on what they value highly always produces a better economy than taking it from them and spending it less well. Taking it from them also demoralizes and disincentive sets them. This is axiomatic and proven over many different economies in many different countries.

    To argue otherwise is to say my money is better taken from me and passed through some Canberra bureaucrats and then given to a wave energy company, ultimately to end up rusting on the beach, than selectively chosen by me to either consume via services I find productive, or for me to invest in savings to help build investment for future capacity.

    You can’t just give the Libs a pass because labor are worse. That will just give us a government marginally better than the ALP. There are big principles at stake here.

  165. Faye

    Dot/Dash, I don’t want to be your friend.
    Apologies. The LDP was what I meant to type. The Liberal Democratic Party – it’s a handy name to gain votes from the Liberals on the Senate paper. The original DLP is dead. You forgot the apostrophe in “partys”.
    Calli – thank you for your advice. It too irks me that the Libs said yes too easily to Labor’s NDIS, Gonski and NBN. I don’t want new taxes but I can wear a 3-4 year one. The Libs are working on tax policy as a whole to be presented to us prior to the next election. What could be fairer than that?

  166. .

    Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term

    If this is utopian, then I’m a fucking unicorn.

  167. .

    I don’t want new taxes but I can wear a 3-4 year one.

    Then you can volunteer to pay mine.

    The Libs are working on tax policy as a whole to be presented to us prior to the next election. What could be fairer than that?

    Cutting off all of the non-productive hangers on and giving working stiffs a break out of principle.

  168. MemoryVault

    No one else is going to save Australia in the short term but TA.

    And he’s going to do this by implementing a whole heap of Labor-socialist big-spending “policies”, introducing a new tax he promised we wouldn’t have, and treating us like brain-damaged cretins with his “it’s not a tax, it’s a levy” spin.

    Quite frankly I don’t think Australia can handle much more of that kind of “saving”.

  169. MemoryVault

    I don’t want new taxes but I can wear a 3-4 year one.

    You mean it’s going to be temporary?

    Like payroll tax?
    Like income tax?

  170. cohenite

    And he’s going to do this by implementing a whole heap of Labor-socialist big-spending “policies”,

    Abbott’s got rid of the mozzie invasion by boat which was costing Australia $2 million per month.

    He’ll try and get rid of the carbon tax, and if Greg Hunt and Turnbull break their legs he’ll get rid of the RET.

    Hockey hates wind turbines and how long can solar farms be behind?

    He’s going to beef up defence and he did wonders with his free trade trip.

    Fair dinkum and you still reckon he is equivalent to the alp/green filth!

  171. cohenite

    $2 million billion per month.

  172. Bear Necessities

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-02/joe-hockey-on-call-to-arms/5425650

    Stackya and Rob – Your leader is calling. Watch out for that cliff!!!!!!

  173. egg_

    You can’t just give the Libs a pass because labor are worse. That will just give us a government marginally better than the ALP. There are big principles at stake here.

    That’s the nub of it.
    (A well policed ALP may actually be better, sadly).

  174. Gab

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-02/joe-hockey-on-call-to-arms/5425650

    What a load of rubbish. As mentioned by others, this new tax levy is estimated to bring in $3bil in revenue which will off-set Abbott;s Direct Action. It has nothing to do with “sharing the burden” of fixing the debt and deficit.

    (Sinclair if this comment is still in the spam filter don’t bother releasing it).

  175. Rabz

    Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term.

    And jacking up income tax will?

    Scrapping idiotic fart bubbles such as PPL and DA would be a sound first step – this does not involve ‘cutting government’, it simply involves not expanding it in the first place.

    You are starting to try my patience.

  176. Toiling Mass

    I just don’t get why they are so keen to hold on to Labor’s policies. It is as if they think it will win over a few of voters from them.

    Isn’t there some business axiom that it is more economical to retain customers rather than trying to woo new ones?

    I suppose the political calculus is that their base is guaranteed as they have nowhere else to go, so anyone they steal from Labor with Labor policies is extra.

  177. MemoryVault

    Abbott’s got rid of the mozzie invasion by boat which was costing Australia $2 million per month.

    Which was never going to be difficult, only required the political will to implement.
    Labor were never going to do it because 90% of the arrivals voted Labor.
    LNP were always going to do it for exactly the same reason.

    He’ll try and get rid of the carbon tax, and if Greg Hunt and Turnbull break their legs he’ll get rid of the RET.

    He could have stopped collecting the carbon tax from October 1 (but didn’t).
    He COULD get rid of both after July 1, but could also pull an 18C backdown.

    Hockey hates wind turbines

    But readily admits contractual agreements prevent him from doing very much about them.
    Where was Hockey’s “hatred” years ago when those “contractual agreements” were being agreed to?

    He’s going to beef up defence

    He’s agreed to spend $12 billion on 58 fighter jets which to all intents and purpose are still little more than a designer’s wet dream on the drawing board, were designed by a committee out of bits not considered good enough for the F-22 Raptor, and are currently most noted for their habit of having bits fall off on the rare occasion that one actually flies.

    The only thing getting beefed up is Lockheed Martin’s bottom line.

    Fair dinkum and you still reckon he is equivalent to the alp/green filth!

    No, I think he is a typical Australian party politician.

  178. stackja

    Rabz
    #1288928, posted on May 2, 2014 at 1:26 pm
    Utopian solutions of just cutting government and cutting taxes will not work in the short term.
    And jacking up income tax will?
    Scrapping idiotic fart bubbles such as PPL and DA would be a sound first step – this does not involve ‘cutting government’, it simply involves not expanding it in the first place.
    You are starting to try my patience.

    This endless criticism of TA is trying my patience. So we agree to disagree.
    The choice is more ALP or TA your decision.
    The next ALP government will finish the job of destroying Australia.

  179. Toiling Mass

    I think a lot of lo-info voters have been conditioned by the media cycle to believe that if the Federal Government’s books are OK, then Australia is OK. If the Feds confiscate private wealth to balance their books, then that is all that is necessary to show Australia is doing well.

    This identity of Australia and the Federal Government is no doubt why people have absolutely no sense of their being any area the government is not allowed to intrude and why, whatever happens, dull-eyed supplicants start bleating for the government to take action.

  180. jupes

    He’ll try and get rid of the carbon tax, and if Greg Hunt and Turnbull break their legs he’ll get rid of the RET.

    Hockey hates wind turbines and how long can solar farms be behind?

    Yep, baby steps they may be but at least they are steps in the right direction.

    However Abbott needs to speed up the process. Every year that the RET and other ‘climate change’ policies are operating is costing the country billions. Worse than that they slow the economy.

    If he is too scared to declare that climate change is crap, then he should commission a cost-benefit analysis. That would kill two birds with one stone:

    Show that NOTHING Australia does can have any measurable effect on global temperature (even if AGW was true), and

    Show that AGW is a scam.

    Then he can declare the AGW scam crisis over.

  181. MemoryVault

    The next ALP government will finish the job of destroying Australia.

    No need.
    The current LNP government are doing the job quite nicely, thank you.
    Just a little more slowly.

  182. Senile Old Guy

    I suppose the political calculus is that their base is guaranteed as they have nowhere else to go, so anyone they steal from Labor with Labor policies is extra.

    If that’s their thinking, it is foolish, to say the least. The Liberals are trying to be too smart by half; using the word “levy” indicates this, as does attempting to portray it is as “temporary”. I am not libertarian, or even far right, but TA has painted himself into a corner and is trying dodgy cons to get out of it.

    If we can’t trust the current politicians, we’ll toss them out and try a new lot. Remember, Australia voted for Howard and the GST. We don’t automatically oppose taxation changes. But promise “no new taxes” and then immediately try to introduce one: toast.

  183. old bloke

    sounds like a good reason to privatise the ComCar service. I have heard stories about how they sit around all day and play cards and smoke.

    Too flamin’ true, get rid of them all and give the pollis taxi vouchers.

  184. Rabz

    give the pollis taxi vouchers

    This message endorsed by the Musselman.

  185. I think a lot of lo-info voters have been conditioned by the media cycle to believe that if the Federal Government’s books are OK, then Australia is OK. If the Feds confiscate private wealth to balance their books, then that is all that is necessary to show Australia is doing well

    No, people do not believe that.
    Which is why any promise-breaking new tax will be political suicide.

    I suppose the political calculus is that their base is guaranteed as they have nowhere else to go, so anyone they steal from Labor with Labor policies is extra.

    That’s the fallacy of the middle ground.
    Politicians from the right always fall for this. It doesn’t work that way.

  186. If they introduce a new tax, then Tony Abbott will instantly and permanently become as popular as Julia Gillard. There will be no recovery. There will be no light at the end of the tunnel. There will only be angst and remorse about what could have been.

    It really will be that bad.

  187. Notafan

    Stopping the boats was easy?
    Really? No credit to Morrison and co for a sophisticated and multi faceted operation that involved intelligence gathering and dealing with belligerent neighbours
    No delicate negotiations with the Indonesians (and Malaysians) by Bishop and Abbott.
    No negotiates with country of origin to arrange repatriations and discourage more people entering Indonesia.
    No having to deal with a hostile and subversive domestic media?
    Yeah, easy.

  188. Andrew

    Remember, Australia voted for Howard and the GST.

    Bullshit. ANTS was the biggest tax cut in history. (And real pension increase.)

  189. .

    Andrew
    #1289533, posted on May 2, 2014 at 11:03 pm
    Remember, Australia voted for Howard and the GST.

    Bullshit. ANTS was the biggest tax cut in history. (And real pension increase.)

    Please compare it to other tax cuts, like the highest income tax rate being dropped from 60% to 47%.

    Citation needed.

  190. Tel

    Too flamin’ true, get rid of them all and give the pollis taxi vouchers.

    Ask Slipper, they are going to claim anyhow, might as well encourage them to ride the taxi as well.

  191. Oh come on

    Criticism of TA is helping the ALP.

    Stack, you’re scaring me.

  192. Oh come on

    This endless criticism of TA is trying my patience.

    Next you’ll be demanding we all be sent to labour camps for mocking the Dear Leader.

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