Peter Fox – an unreliable witness

The Australian reports:

A WHISTLEBLOWER detective who used a live ABC interview to criticise the NSW Police Force over its handling of child sex abuse is an unsatisfactory witness who gave untruthful evidence about both his employer and the Catholic Church, a state inquiry has found.

The 2012 Lateline interview with Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox is widely seen as helping trigger the national royal commission into child abuse, which was announced four days later by the then prime minister, Julia Gillard.

Following the broadcast, a NSW special commission of inquiry was also established to investigate the policeman’s claims that the church in NSW’s Hunter Valley covered up child abuse by priests, and that he was ordered to stand down from the investigation of a paedophile priest.

In its report, released this afternoon, the commission found “Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox was an unsatisfactory witness in a number of respects”.

“The commission formed the view that Fox had developed what amounted to an obsession about both the Catholic Church and alleged conspiracies involving senior police,” the three-volume report said.

The detective’s claim that a “Catholic Mafia” existed within NSW Police was “wholly unfounded” the commission found.

Other parts of his evidence given before the commission were “implausible” and “deliberately untruthful”, the report said.

Those are powerful phrases: “wholly unfounded”, “implausible”, “deliberately untruthful”.

This was always a beat up – as we said at the time.

Make no mistake those are very serious allegations and should be investigated. By the police. Let’s look again at what was said:

Tony Jones: You’re saying you have evidence of all of this?
Peter Fox: Oh, not only do I have evidence, it’s irrefutable.

If true, why are we having a Royal Commission? Why hasn’t Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox of the New South Wales police force arrested the individuals he believes to have committed a crime? Why have those individuals not appeared in open court? Why hasn’t the “irrefutable” evidence been presented to a jury? Trial by jury remains the law of the land. Trial by ABC television is an innovation that should be resisted. Big question: Why didn’t Tony Jones ask those very questions?

This was always a “Let’s get George” exercise.

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125 Responses to Peter Fox – an unreliable witness

  1. wreckage

    Surprise! Witch hunt turns out to be witch hunt.

  2. James B

    This royal commission is about killing off religion, because religion is a threat to state power.

    And you fucking idiots went along with it.

  3. notafan

    Damage done. Are people ever going to believe that the abuse of children is not an exclusively Catholic thing?
    For various reasons, none actully good enough. people didn’t speak out enough or take appropriate action or make police reports back then. As a child of the 60s/70s I know we put up with behaviour from adults that I so very glad none of my children ever experienced.
    Back then we even had people publically advocating for sexual relations between adults and children. Now what happens? I suspect that sexual abuse of children will continue but now will be condoned on cultural grounds, or some other lame excuse.

  4. James B

    To be honest we need the Anglican Church and even the Catholic Church to die off anyway. They are heretics, liberals, leftists, statists, and the main reason religion is dying in this country.

    Independent protestant churches, evangelical churches (Pentecostal,etc), Mormon churches, they are seeing the growth, and for good reason. They haven’t abandoned the teachings of the Bible.

  5. H B Bear

    Thanks Snowcone and the ABC (Anyone But Catholics) network.

    Taxpayer’s will be lucky to get any change out of $150m+ for this witch-hunt and group therapy session.

    Long term changes to legislation, enforcement, current codes of conduct or practices – Nil.

  6. H B Bear

    Snic’s 2012 post nailed it in one – the Royal Commission was always just live cattle in Roman Catholic vestments.

    Gillard would do or say anything to get her weekly f***-ups off the front page.

  7. lotocoti

    This was always a “Let’s get George” exercise.

    And the Tony Abbott is a Catholic IYKWIMAITYD rider.

  8. James B

    Gillard was literally the perfect goy. A communist, atheist, childless career woman with a house husband. Pretty fucked up stuff, I bet she feels empty inside.

    Establishing a royal commission to crush religion is part of her ideology.

  9. jupes

    And you fucking idiots went along with it.

    To which fucking idiots do you refer?

  10. jupes

    And the Tony Abbott is a Catholic IYKWIMAITYD rider.

    Bingo!

  11. Cold-Hands

    Other parts of his evidence given before the commission were “implausible” and “deliberately untruthful”, the report said.

    So the RC found that he lied. Is there any penalty? Wasn’t he under oath? Shouldn’t he be penalised for perjury?

  12. James B

    Everybody in Australia. The SMH poll showed 98% of people in favour of it.

    You were all perfect little goys, doing your part to destroy your own country. Sad, I liked this place.

  13. jupes

    The SMH poll showed 98% of people in favour of it.

    And of course ‘everybody’ at this blog voted on that poll.

    You idiot.

  14. Notafan

    Mormons showing growth and Bible based?
    What happened to Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon?
    I get the impression in the US Mormons aren’t doing quite so well, not.to mention very few Christians would regard them as being Christians, being polytheists and all.

  15. manalive

    This was always a “Let’s get George” exercise …

    There is, no doubt, a good deal of old fashioned sectarianism behind the concentration on the Catholic Church, but the Victorian parliamentary inquiry into child abuse criticised Cardinal Pell, who was an auxiliary bishop (1986 -1996) and then Archbishop of Melbourne (1996- 2001), for minimising and trivialising the issue.
    Also, Professor Patrick Parkinson of the University of Sydney and a former consultant on the church’s Towards Healing protocol said “The levels of abuse in the Catholic Church are strikingly out of proportion with any other church, and that is the reality”.

  16. JC

    @mscott @albericie Hey Emma, Peter Fox was quite the scoop. How about getting 911 troofers as they’re more reliable than Fox #auspol

  17. nerblnob

    Independent protestant churches, evangelical churches (Pentecostal,etc), Mormon churches, they are seeing the growth, and for good reason. They haven’t abandoned the teachings of the Bible.

    Catholics moved on from the bible about 2000 years ago (“because, like, we wrote the thing” is the attitude).
    Fundies (Pentecostals, Greens etc) will always see growth when society drifts away from the mainstream religions.

  18. Piett

    What happened to Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon?
    I get the impression in the US Mormons aren’t doing quite so well, not.to mention very few Christians would regard them as being Christians, being polytheists and all.

    The Book of Mormon, which the angel, um, Moroni, gave to Joseph Smith on gold tablets, is regarded by Mormons as a kind of ‘sequel’ to the Christian Bible. It adds to the Bible rather than supplanting it, I believe.

    I think you mean polygamous rather than polytheist! But they ditched polygamy a long time ago.

  19. Tintarella di Luna

    The levels of abuse in the Catholic Church the Labor Party are strikingly out of proportion with any other church, political party and that is the reality

  20. JC

    @albericie @mscott Get these guys on Lateline. They have credible evidence US government/ Bush responsible for 911
    http://tinyurl.com/ce2ywkg

    And

    @mscott Hey Mark. Your fact checking dept costing the taxpayer $10 mill year did great job checking Peter Fox veracity. Ask for more money!

  21. stackja

    This was always a “Let’s get George” exercise.

    I am shocked! Fancy atheists against the Church!

  22. C.L.

    The levels of abuse in the Catholic Church are strikingly out of proportion with any other church, and that is the reality.

    No, it’s not a “reality” at all. It’s mendacious bullshit.

    The Catholic Church runs more institutions than all other churches combined.

    As for Professor Patrick Parkinson, he fully approved of the Church’s protocols before pulling away from them for purely luvvie aggrandising reasons; cowardly reasons.

    Here is the nong on ABC Lateline in November 2012 explaining his reason:

    TONY JONES, PRESENTER: The senior lawyer who reviewed the Catholic Church’s Towards Healing protocol says he can point to alleged contemporary cover-ups in the Catholic Church.

    Professor Patrick Parkinson was cited by Cardinal Pell yesterday as the man who had reviewed the Church’s protocols on two occasions and had given them his tick of approval.

    But Professor Parkinson says he’s now withdrawn his support for the protocol because the Church failed to take action over clergy who didn’t comply.

    He says the allegations by Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox and separate allegations made by the Victorian police amount to allegations of organised criminality.

    Professor Parkinson says an alleged cover-up in the Church as late as 2005 put children at risk.

  23. MemoryVault

    Independent protestant churches, evangelical churches (Pentecostal,etc), Mormon churches, they are seeing the growth, and for good reason. They haven’t abandoned the teachings of the Bible.

    Can’t speak for most of them, but the Assembly of God church has demonstrated several times that it is little more than a foot soldier offshoot of the National Party. For more than a decade all Ron Boswell had to do was blow his dog whistle and the AoG would leap into action, with political directions to the congregation delivered straight from the pulpit. This included lies, slander, reputation-shredding, whatever was required at the time and be damned with the truth.

    It is said by Christians that God can be found everywhere.
    The last place I’d go looking for Him is in an AoG church.

  24. Notafan

    The book of Mormon takes precedence over the Bible and I did mean polytheist, on the basis that very best Mormon males get to be gods on their own planets where they get lots of of wives and get to make lots of spirit babies.

  25. JC

    CL

    The leftwing goons at their ABC are after George Pell because he shares rightwing economic views and is sceptical about gerbil warming. If he was doing a Father Bob routine , scuking up to the left, Pell would be portrayed as principled.

    Springer -Jones, his aggressive wife (who sounds like she’s a senior member of the politiburu), that Rat Alberici and several others would be jailed under the Fisk Doctrine – possibly with life sentences. Springer-Jones and his wife would share the same cell as extra punishment.

    I didn’t forget Scott, as he would be facing capital punishment.

  26. JC

    Why the fuck is there a discussion about Mormonism on this thread? Why?

  27. Turtle of WA

    Whenever the left accuse anyone of anything, the first thing to check is whether they are guilty themselves. The endemic projection of the left.

    So when you hear them running around accusing everyone of dog-whistling, you can be sure their just getting in first.

    It sets up a ‘you are!’ situation, in which the opponent is forced to seem childish if they respond.

  28. Turtle of WA

    their they’re.

  29. Turtle of WA

    Continued…

    So Labor hung onto their boat policy long after it was unfeasible and accused the opposition of dog whistling.

    While conducting campaigns against farmers, stockman, miners, Catholics, fisherman, loggers, organised sport, billionaires, men, etc., etc., etc.

  30. JC

    Turtle

    I’m not sure that’s the case. I think that anytime they accuse people of doing bad shit, you can be damn sure there are (always) more leftwingers doing the same thing but even worse.

  31. Turtle of WA

    A retired farmer told me that Snowcone’s missus mouth moves the same way as a chooks bum.

    He calls her chook-bum-mouth.

    Watch her talk and I you’ll see what I mean.

  32. Tom

    When will Fox be charged with perjury? Why isn’t Eddie Obeid in prison for unchallenged corruption and criminality? No more ‘no consequences’, you dopey Liberal clowns.

  33. Turtle of WA

    Isn’t that what I said JC? If not, you sum it up nicely.

  34. Notafan

    JC, Mormons were held out as a fine Christian alternative to Catholics.

  35. JC

    Turtle

    In order to validate that theory I would have to check out a live chook. It isn’t going to happen.

  36. MemoryVault

    Why the fuck is there a discussion about Mormonism on this thread? Why?

    Because the Brethren of the Church of Cat are Seekers after Truth, my Son.
    And “42″ just doesn’t cut it.
    Not that Mormonism does either.
    But we’re tired of bitching about Abbott, Hockey, the Budget, and lost opportunities.
    This fills the gap until the LNP snatch defeat from the jaws of victory – again.

  37. Turtle of WA

    Fair enough, but all it takes is to have seen a chook crapping. I’m not suggesting anything intimate.

  38. Tintarella di Luna

    A retired farmer told me that Snowcone’s missus mouth moves the same way as a chooks bum.

    That’s it!!I have watched that wet-voiced harpie and thought the mouth looked familiar-as a farmer’s daughter in charge of the chooks I know what you mean Turtle and chook-bum-mouth it is.

  39. C.L.

    When will Fox be charged with perjury?

    Good question.

  40. calli

    This Is a chook’s bum. A yardstick if you will…against which others can be measured.

  41. TonyOrlando

    Some (stress some) of the sexual abuse brigade appear to be more than a little cultish. Although the animus to Pell is palpable, the cause is really more a chip on the shoulder about the Catholic church for which Pell serves as a useful hate figure and sexual abuse as a convenient camouflage.
    But I am not sure you can blame the ABC, you don’t really want media organizations forming pre-judgements on who is a credible whistleblower or not. Fox was in a position to be a credible whistleblower and it is better his claims get aired and discredited through proper process.
    And the ABC has prominently displayed the results of the inquiry which I am as yet not finding on the SMH.
    When you have hysterical cultish police officers and hysterical cultish “support groups” you do get the potential to have false claims – particularly against the dead – gaining undue credence. Satanic abuse rings in kindergartens anyone?

  42. Alfonso

    Hee, hee…. be deeply suspicious of any copper player who spends much poser time at his Hair Stylist.
    This copper wanker and or corruption test is mostly infallible.

  43. Grover

    Can’t you see it?
    The Catholic Church representing everything godly has or had priests sexually assaulting children.
    There is no excuse.
    As the bible says ” you reap what you sow.”
    Maybe the royal commission will be a good thing for the Catholics.

  44. nerblnob

    The whole “whistleblower” concept is problematic. It assumes that everything is a closed conspiracy and that there is no transparency, and some individual comes forward, who has, of course, no personal agenda at all except being a noble seeker of truth.

    Fair enough, if the whistler reveals a genuine concealed truth but too often they’re just obsessives seized on by activists because they confirm the listener’s bias.

  45. nerblnob

    Maybe the royal commission will be a good thing for the Catholics.

    Probably. The question is whether it is a good thing for the country or just a political campaign. The Catholic church had an entrenched problem of systematic abuse. What is studiously ignored by obsessive critics is that it acted sooner than most big organisations with similar issues to tackle it.

  46. C.L.

    The Catholic Church representing everything godly has or had priests sexually assaulting children.

    Like all the other churches.

  47. Grover

    Let the priests marry , that might help.

  48. nilk, iron bogan

    Calli @7.48 I thought this was a chook bum.

  49. Notafan

    Hmm (mainly) men abusing boys, marriage does seem a good solution.

  50. nilk, iron bogan

    Grover there are churches where priests marry. They’re just not catholic. I don’t want my priests married. How on earth can they minister to their flock if they’ve got a wife and kids to worry about?

    Married men abuse also, Notafan, and not only catholics. Let’s talk about religiously sanctioned child sexual molestation per sharia law, shall we? Or is that not what this is about?

    This was always a witchhunt, and the Leftards hate Cardinal Pell with a passion. He’s also been known to turn away the gay activists who’ve demanded he give them Communion at Mass. That was a long time ago, and they have looooong memories.

  51. nerblnob

    Let the priests marry , that might help.

    Maybe if priests could get gay married the lefties would leave them alone. Not that it would solve anything.

  52. Gab

    Let the priests marry , that might help

    Yes, that’s the answer becuase, of course, no married man has ever sexually abused his child or stepchild or niece or nephew or son or next door neighbor’s child or a child under their care at school etc. Yep. Kids have only ever been sexually abused by single men. *facepalm* It is all so simple, priests should marry because that prevents sexual abuse; why didn’t anyone identify this sooner?!

  53. sdfc

    Like all the other churches.

    That matters?

  54. Notafan

    Nilk I agree, I’m sick of the celibacy = paedophilia meme. Statististically a significant part of the problem in the Catholic Church has been men abusing boys so marriage is a bogus solution.
    Paedophilia is a human problem that no boundaries and there are certainly cultures that not only condone but sanction the sexual abuse of children.

  55. I’m still glad the Royal Commission has happened, in a way, because it’s lifted the lid on the Salvation Army and the Anglicans and the other institutions where child abuse was taking place.

    What angered me was that it was so obviously a ‘Get the Catholics’ exercise in pandering to the ABC and Friends, while ignoring the huge amount of sexual abuse that’s take place of children in state care and in state foster placements, and the current huge amount of sexual abuse of Aboriginal children in remote areas.

  56. Grover

    It may not totally solve the problem but surely it would help? Makes sense to me .
    Do you have a better suggestion?

  57. sdfc

    Pedos are predators. Celibacy has nothing to do with it.

  58. It may not totally solve the problem but surely it would help? Makes sense to me .
    Do you have a better suggestion?

    1) Vet the seminary applicants a lot more closely – tick; being done already.

    2) If you are a Catholic, support your priests to live a celibate life by word, by prayer, by practical assistance, by example. I’m trying to do this; I’d invite any other Catholics to do so as well.

    I’ve personally been blessed by knowing a great many celibate priests who were genuinely celibate. Celibacy actually put them in an ideal position to give me wise advice, and to give me the sort of kind-hearted, generous and fatherly support and protection that I’d been lacking for much of my life.

    Married priests can counsel the married, but they will draw primarily on their own experience. Celibates can also counsel the married, but they can draw upon the huge range of experiences that they’ve had with hearing the problems of other married couples and counselling them, and the families with whom they’ve been involved.

    People think celibacy means being dead, or living in a cupboard and hiding from reality/sex. It’s not. Practising it faithfully opens your heart and your mind in ways that you simply can’t imagine or expect, and it gives you greater objectivity as well. The good priests I’ve known have had an inner freedom and self-mastery that gave them a joyous and positive outlook on life, and they were in turn able to transmit that to me when they gave me counsel.

  59. Gab

    I’m still glad the Royal Commission has happened, in a way, because it’s lifted the lid on the Salvation Army and the Anglicans and the other institutions where child abuse was taking place.

    I don’t believe Fairfax and the ABC have heard of this. I know becuase they never reported on it.

  60. Notafan

    If statistically celibate priests are no more likely to be paedophiles than any other men how does marriage fix things? If the men are attracted to boys how does marriage fix things? If men are attracted to little girls how does marriage fix things?
    Mr Stinky had a wife, didn’t stop him raping dozens of women and sexually abusing his own daughter.
    I do hold priests to a higher standard and the church is screening applicants more rigously and like it or not no longer allowing same sex attracted men to become priests.
    There is also the question of whether paedophiles seek out jobs, if you like, that give them access to and power over children eg scout leaders, child care workers etc both examples came up in.the RC

  61. candy

    I disagree, Philippa

    I’m Catholic and I think we really have to move past the ideas that priests shouldn’t marry.
    They are the messengers of God only, even the Pope is but a messenger.

  62. JC

    Candy

    They can marry any time they want. Butch Carlton’s dad was a former priest for instance.

  63. I’m Catholic and I think we really have to move past the ideas that priests shouldn’t marry.
    They are the messengers of God only, even the Pope is but a messenger.

    I’m Catholic, and I am perfectly happy with the current arrangement, and so are all the priests I know. I’ve met three or four married Catholic priests in my time; they are no happier or sadder than any other celibate priest I’ve met. (In fact, some of them covertly envy their celibate brothers their freedom …)

    Priests who don’t like being single can always get laicised and then married. It’s not too difficult, although it can take a while. I’ve met a few of these married couples, and they never seem especially happy, but perhaps that’s just my imagination.

    There are a big swag of good theological reasons for celibacy: it mirrors Christ more closely; it is a supernatural rather than a natural life; it imposes a particular burden and challenge that means the priesthood will not be sought after by too many power-mad individuals, as it weeds out the non-altruistic.

    Marriage is a natural right, and it’s a good thing, but it also ties you down to one place and one family. Priests who are celibate are free to be a member of everyone’s family, without belonging exclusively to any one family. It means they can run on a much lower income, and it gives them portability, so they can move around from placement to placement.

    Celibacy is NOT for everyone; Jesus made that clear. It’s for those who are called to it. That’s why it takes years to become a priest, because you’ve really, really got to think about whether it’s your call or not. And you have a million and one chances to leave the seminary before you’re ordained, if it’s not working out. It calls for real honesty with yourself and real acceptance of your own weaknesses, and there’s no shame in leaving for any reason. It’s always better to have a broken engagement than a divorce.

  64. stackja

    candy
    #1325946, posted on May 30, 2014 at 9:00 pm
    I disagree, Philippa

    Another view:

    SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS

  65. They can marry any time they want. Butch Carlton’s dad was a former priest for instance.

    Paul Bongiorno too. Not an ideal example, as he’s not a very happy man, but there you go.

  66. stackja

    Philippa Martyr
    #1325954, posted on May 30, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    Again: John Cootes
    From Wikipedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cootes

  67. Eyup. And no one is saying a laicised priest can’t be a perfectly solid citizen.

    It’s the ones who want it both ways – to have the collar and the prestige and the subsidised lifestyle, but also the nookie – that cause the problems.

  68. Rabz

    You were all perfect little goys, doing your part to destroy your own country. Sad, I liked this place.

    Oh fuck off. I went to a Christian Brothers school back in the seventies and even I was advocating that the Liberals shut this farce of a ‘Royal Commission’ down once they were elected.

    A ridiculous hope with hindisght, but you can go back and check the record, if you like.

  69. Notafan

    My brothers and primary school friends went to Christian Brothers as well.
    At least those who were abused in institutions got the opportunity to have there say.
    It’s worth noting that other rites in the Catholic Church eg Maronite do allow married priests as do Anglican use parishes. There are also people not in religious life who are celibate.

  70. MemoryVault

    There are a big swag of good theological reasons for celibacy: it mirrors Christ more closely;

    Jesus was married. His wedding is described in the Bible for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.
    There is nothing “theological” about celibacy amongst the priesthood.
    There is certainly nothing in the Bible in support of the practice.
    It was introduced by a long-dead Pope to solve the problem of bastard children of priests claiming grants of land from the church.
    Like fish and chips on Friday it is a dogma that has long since lost any meaningful understanding of, or connection with, its original purpose or intent.

  71. Gab

    The 2012 Lateline interview with Detective Chief Inspector Peter Fox is widely seen as helping trigger the national royal commission into child abuse, which was announced four days later by the then prime minister, Julia Gillard.

    I wonder what motivated Peter Fox to lie?

  72. candy

    Marriage is a natural right, and it’s a good thing, but it also ties you down to one place and one family. Priests who are celibate are free to be a member of everyone’s family, without belonging exclusively to any one family.

    Philippa, perhaps priests should be married before they are ordained? Single sexually free priests would be a nightmare!

  73. JC

    Gab

    If you recall at the time a few of us came out doubting the bullshit he was peddling. For that lying rat to be right it would have meant, the government, the Catholic Church, the cops investigating and the judiciary were all in cahoots in conspiracy to hide the truth. The story was just absolutely outlandish.

    Of course the Lying Slapper went for it.

  74. JC

    Vault

    You once said Jesus didn’t exist. You then said he was gay and you’re now saying he was married.

    Is there anything you don’t believe?

  75. candy

    I wonder what motivated Peter Fox to lie?

    He’s an obsessive, on a crusade.

  76. JC

    There are also people not in religious life who are celibate.

    Yep, no shock to us here at the Cat. We had two commenters who were/ are celibate.

    Monster was a virgin until he got hitched.

    Stepford is celibate and he’s married!

  77. sdfc

    What was the lie Fox told?

  78. calli

    Jesus was married. His wedding is described in the Bible for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.

    How odd. No matter how many times I have read the gospels, I have never noticed this little fact. Is it in a special edition? If so, could I please have a reference?

  79. JC

    AFDC

    He created this huge conspiracy theory that the church , government, cops and judges were all in to keep a lid on much more child abuse than was let on.

    I really don’t know if the fucker is out of his mind or just lying to gain celebrity status.

  80. MemoryVault

    JC

    You once said Jesus didn’t exist. You then said he was gay and you’re now saying he was married.

    I think you must be confusing me with someone else, JC.
    I have said I don’t believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing, long-haired, bearded “God” figure.
    By definition, that means I don’t believe in a “Son of God” deity.
    However, there IS a book called the Bible, and it DOES feature a character called Jesus.
    So, whether a person called “Jesus” actually existed or not is irrelevant.
    With regards to a wedding, I stated what was written about it in that book called the Bible.
    Whether the character, the story, or the book have any semblance of truth, is not for me to say.

    There is nothing in that story-book, the Bible, to suggest Jesus was gay.
    I can’t even imagine myself suggesting anything remotely like that.
    But after the tenth glass of Shiraz Cabernet, who knows?
    Refresh my memory.

  81. Sinclair Davidson

    Now that Brandis is backing down on 18C I think it’s time to unleash on the left.

    So who will lodge an 18C complaint against Fox and the ABC?

  82. stackja

    Sinclair Davidson
    #1326024, posted on May 30, 2014 at 9:58 pm
    Now that Brandis is backing down on 18C I think it’s time to unleash on the left.
    So who will lodge an 18C complaint against Fox and the ABC?

    But the Left are above such laws.

  83. nilk, iron bogan

    1) Vet the seminary applicants a lot more closely – tick; being done already.

    2) If you are a Catholic, support your priests to live a celibate life by word, by prayer, by practical assistance, by example. I’m trying to do this; I’d invite any other Catholics to do so as well.

    It’s interesting that in the seminaries the younger applicants tend to be a whole lot more traditional in their outlook than their teachers. Of course, this is anecdotal, but one young man I asked on this subject replied with a shrug that the students find their ways around the more progressive attitudes and learn more that way. They are keen to learn their Faith, and to uphold it.

    As the VII Old Guard die off it’s going to be interesting to watch what happens.

  84. MemoryVault

    Calli

    How odd. No matter how many times I have read the gospels, I have never noticed this little fact. Is it in a special edition? If so, could I please have a reference?

    Go read John in the original King James version – specifically the First Miracle.
    Then do a bit of research into Jewish customs of the time.
    Finally, compare to customs that survive to this day.

  85. nilk, iron bogan

    I’m Catholic and I think we really have to move past the ideas that adultery is a sin.
    There is a lot of temptation out there, and so many people are not strong enough to resist. Besides, they don’t mean to stray. It just happens sometimes.

    I’m Catholic and I think we really have to move past the ideas that lying is bad.
    Our political leaders do it, and it’s not like there are too many consequences. Just ask Julia Gillard.

    Candy, I’m Catholic and I don’t care what the rest of the world thinks. If you want married priests, feel free to swim across the Tiber to the Protestant side.

    Priests who are married owe their allegiance to their families. This is a no-brainer.

    In the event that a married man is called to serve, then in the past his wife had to provide written agreement with his decision, and also agree to live in a chaste marriage.

    I don’t know if this is still the case, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

  86. Notafan

    I think the best authority on whether Jesus was married is the Da Vinci Code, it certainly blew the lid on Opus Dei. (Disclaimer; never read Dan Brown)

  87. Notafan

    Married men can be deacons.

  88. nilk, iron bogan

    LOL, Notafan. Brown was just rehashing The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail, which in turn reworked a hoax from France in the 1959s.

    He’s a very average writer, so you didn’t miss much.

  89. nerblnob

    So who will lodge an 18C complaint against Fox and the ABC?

    Not me. I can’t pretend I’m being offended by these idiots even if they’re insulting me or my parents’ religion. It’s too much effort .

    In truth I’m glad when they expose themselves as bigoted idiots and the insults are like water off a ducks back..

  90. Notafan

    At least Da Vinci is a third the size of Holy Blood, also on my don’t bother list.
    So who did Jesus marry at Canaan?
    I know Mormons claim Jesus was a polygamist.

  91. MemoryVault

    So who did Jesus marry at Canaan?

    Mary Magdalene.
    And it was at Cana, not Canaan.

  92. nerblnob

    Apart from sucking Mary Magdalen’s toes (loose translation) , there’s nothing about JC’s sex life in the NT.

  93. nerblnob

    Wasn’t the wedding at Cana was the one where he smuggled in high-grade hooch?

  94. John, ii, 1-2:

    And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
    And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

    Uh huh.
    The KJV is an accurate translation; the original koine Greek of ii, 2 is “ἐκλήθη δὲ καὶ ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ οἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ εἰς τὸν γάμον”*; ἐκλήθη† is “called” or “summoned” or “invited”, and refers to Jesus and his followers; why was he invited to his own wedding, and were they all married?

    * literally: was-invited moreover and the Jesus and the disciples of-him to the wedding.
    † third person, aorist passive indicative singular of καλέω, “I call”.

  95. Notafan

    Okay, Wikipedia says Mormons early on went for Mary Magdalene,.Martha and another Mary not sure if they meant all married at once at Cana, though modern Mormons now reject that belief.
    No other Christians believe it, apparently.
    Sorry about Canaan, my phone loves auto complete and most of the time that is pretty handy.

  96. MemoryVault

    Deadman

    As near as I can ascertain, the most accurate translation is “fetched”.

    Why was a man “fetched” to his own wedding? (By the bride’s closest male relatives no less).
    To make sure he showed up.
    The custom persists to this day, in the form of “groomsmen”.

  97. MemoryVault

    Wasn’t the wedding at Cana was the one where he smuggled in high-grade hooch?

    No. According to the legend it was the one where he turned 120 to 180 gallons of water into high-grade vino. Given that the guests had already drunk the party dry, it must have been one riotous shin-dig.

  98. James B

    Feminists very much dislike polgyamy. The concept of an alpha man who provides for multiple women who serve him very much riles them up.

    However polygamy is sanctioned by the Bible and should make a come back. A truly alpha man can afford to provide for and support multiple women at home and birth vast amounts of children with them.

    Australia needs to get its population increase with natural means, not by importing third worlders.

  99. JohnA

    MemoryVault #1325980, posted on May 30, 2014 at 9:27 pm

    There are a big swag of good theological reasons for celibacy: it mirrors Christ more closely;

    Jesus was married. His wedding is described in the Bible for those with ears to hear and eyes to see.

    Argh, strewth, MV has read Brown’s histerical Da Vinci Code.

    So which KJV edition are you using MV?

    And why KJV, when you have been refuted from Koine Greek?

  100. Mary of Magdala is specifically mentioned in the four gospels only twelve times: Matt. xxvii. 56, 61 & xxviii. 1; Mark xv. 40, 47 & xvi. 1, 9; Luke viii. 2 & xxiv. 10; and John xix. 25 & xx. 1, 18; therein Mary is mentioned as present either at the crucifixion or at the tomb except once, in Luke viii, wherein she’s described as having “had seven devils cast out of her”.

  101. JohnA

    histerical or hysterical which ever you like… it’s all the same stupid anti-historical novel.

  102. dover_beach

    So, the whole ‘Jesus was married’ claim hinges on a single word interpreted as ‘fetched’ which, without begging the question, cannot achieve on its own what its proponent’s claim.

  103. MemoryVault

    Australia needs to get its population increase with natural means, not by importing third worlders.

    We don’t just rely on third worlders.
    The feminists, in their efforts to turn Supporting Parent’s Benefit (SPB) into an alternative lifestyle choice, have created an entirely new concept – what we might call the Alpha-Omega-dipshit male. These are guys who travel around, getting females pregnant, without the slightest intention of ever taking responsibility for their actions.

    In my time with Social Security in the 80′s, it was not uncommon to find the same guy named as “father of the child” in up to twenty applications for SPB, in the space of a year or so. These guys were all on the dole, so there was never any financial comeback on them.

  104. MemoryVault

    John A

    I have never read the Da-Vinci Code, so I will have to take your word on it.

  105. Now that Brandis is backing down on 18C I think it’s time to unleash on the left.

    There is plenty of material.

  106. MemoryVault

    So, the whole ‘Jesus was married’ claim hinges on a single word interpreted as ‘fetched’ which, without begging the question, cannot achieve on its own what its proponent’s claim.

    No. The claim that Jesus was married comes from comparing a highly improbable account of a “miracle”, with what is known of Jewish custom at the time, much of which has carried over to modern day tradition even amongst non-religious people from a Judea-Christian background.

  107. TonyOrlando

    wherein she’s described as having “had seven devils cast out of her”.

    Were they Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy, and Dopey?

  108. James B

    MemoryVault: seems the problem there is the welfare payment for degenerate single mothers. See, we have a situation in Australia now where if you’re a woman and you don’t want your child, you just go to an abortion clinic and you kill it. But if you’re a man and you don’t want your child, well, too fucking bad, you’re going to be literally forced into slavery to pay for it. That’s a problem.

  109. dover_beach

    No. The claim that Jesus was married comes from comparing a highly improbable account of a “miracle”, with what is known of Jewish custom at the time, much of which has carried over to modern day tradition even amongst non-religious people from a Judea-Christian background.

    So it’s a ruse to explain the first miracle? Wow.

  110. As near as I can ascertain, the most accurate translation is “fetched”.

    No, as I wrote earlier, ἐκλήθη—from καλέω (“I call”)—is well translated “called” or “invited”; in none of the uses of καλέω in the gospels can I see it used as “bring to a marriage”; moreover, there is no need to be coy when the gospels use three similar verbs—in dozens of variations—which mean marry: γαμέω (“I marry”),γαμίσκω or γαμίζω (“I give in marriage”), and ἐπιγαμβρεύω (“I marry a deceased brother’s wife”).
    See, for instance, Matt. xxii. 30:

    ταν γὰρ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀναστῶσιν, οὔτε γαμοῦσιν οὔτε γαμίζονται, ἀλλ’ εἰσὶν ὡς ἄγγελοι ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς
    “For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.”
    (
    Literally: when indeed out-from dead they-rise neither do-they-marry nor are-given-in-marriage but are like angels in the heavens.)

  111. Alfonso

    Yep, there’s a solution…..
    Let priest kiddie fiddlers marry and they won’t fiddle kiddies any more…
    LMAO.
    And they mostly, massively seem to be homosexual kiddie fiddlers….perhaps gay marriage for RC priests might fix the problem?

  112. MemoryVault

    James B

    I don’t disagree with you, but what you are describing is a social, moral and ethical dilemma.

    Nearly all the welfare problems stem from the fact that we actually pay additional welfare for each new child. Eliminate that, along with all the other “extras” (rent assistance etc), make income support payments (the dole etc) and income replacement payments (pensions) equal, tie both to something the pollies can’t play around with much – like the minimum wage, set at a level people can survive on, and 90% of all our safety net welfare system problems dissolve overnight.

    After all, when was the last time you worked in a job where the boss gave you a $40.00 a week pay rise every time your wife had another sprog, or increased your wage every time your rent went up.

  113. Crossie

    Surprise! Witch hunt turns out to be witch hunt.

    Set up by a witch.

  114. Crossie

    Yep, there’s a solution…..
    Let priest kiddie fiddlers marry and they won’t fiddle kiddies any more…
    LMAO.
    And they mostly, massively seem to be homosexual kiddie fiddlers….perhaps gay marriage for RC priests might fix the problem?

    They are not kiddie fiddlers because they are priest, exactly the opposite in fact. They looked for professions with easy access to children: teaching, priesthood and social work. And then there are always lonely single mothers who will sacrifice their children for a relationship.

  115. twostix

    My local five minute between shows 7 News update which is even more deranged about catholics than the ABC is has been spruiking and breathlessly reporting “Detective Fox’s” ongoing fantasies and ravings as very grave, iron clad evidence since day 0.

    It always struck me as a particularly gratuitous insertion into the five minute local news update : “oh by the way heroic and glorious Whistleblower and Detective Peter Fox has told of his discovery of a massive coverup in the Catholic Church), this was ongoing night after night for months.

    I wonder if they’ll run this story. Wait, no I don’t.

    On the other hand in the story about the Muslim who married a twelve year which literally is a local news story, they are still yet to let the public know that it was a Muslim affair. Going so far as to call the Imam a “pastor” the other night. The do things like that each time they reluctantly report it matter. The lengths they’ve gone to present that story to make people think it was Christians involved is awe inspiring.

  116. nerblnob

    perhaps gay marriage for RC priests might fix the problem?

    That’s the best comment since

    #1325904, posted on May 30, 2014 at 8:31 pm Maybe if priests could get gay married the lefties would leave them alone. Not that it would solve anything.

  117. nerblnob

    They looked for professions with easy access to children: teaching, priesthood and social work.

    Used to be the scouts and cubs back in the day. Never went to either, but I went to the Christian Bros. They were a repressed and sometimes violent bunch all right but none of em ever approached me for a feel up. Most of them were decent Depression era and WW2 babies trying to provide a good education to a bunch of undisciplined 1960s rabble (us).

  118. Dave Wane

    Whatever the evidence; this was yet another opportunity for Gillard to make yet another “announcement” to the voters – in the forlorn hope that they would be impressed that she was going to be spending millions of their tax dollars on chasing after those nasty priests and the like.

  119. .

    I’m a little disturbed that people think the Ctholic church changes its mind about doctrine regularly, the use of the term “goy” and the fact that people think I supported this when I basically didn’t know about it – the idea of “supporting” a judicial proceeding in a free country is bit of a flawed concept. As for the RC I always maintained it was a way to backhandedly smear Abbott.

    The Newcastle Inquiry went back to the 1930s.

    They are well and truly flogging a dead horse. The Detective Inspector was also simply making shit up, which is an insult to actual victims of abuse.

  120. Shelley

    Wonder if Australian Story will do a follow up to their breathless piece on him last year?

  121. Boambee John

    “none of em ever approached me for a feel up. Most of them were decent Depression era and WW2 babies trying to provide a good education to a bunch of undisciplined 1960s rabble (us).”

    Having been to Catholic schools (day and boarding) in the 1950s/1960s, this matches my experience.

    In retrospect, I suspect that a couple were “so inclined”, but always kept their desires under control. None of my school mates mentioned any incidents either.

  122. I am the Walrus, Koo Koo K'Choo

    However polygamy is sanctioned by the Bible and should make a come back. A truly alpha man can afford to provide for and support multiple women at home and birth vast amounts of children with them.

    Wow.

    As The Vault said, plenty of Omega males already do this. But there’s nothing stopping Alpha males from doing it. They just have to be careful to not get married to the women – either formally or by default (as when the State marries them off when they’ve lived with a woman for a year).

    The fact that it doesn’t much happen suggests that this argument in favour of polygamy ain’t a strong one. But I’m happy to be proven wrong. James B, the world’s yer oyster – go out and get ‘em, tiger!

  123. Andrew

    The Filthies are now spamming the entire social meeja claiming this is an eeebil Murdoch666 stitch-up of a decent whistleblower. I was forced to report one greenscum for taking up half a Sydney public transport FB page with this rubbish.

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