70 years on

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60 Responses to 70 years on

  1. C.L.

    Six Australians awarded the Légion d’honneur.

    Watch the video. The wonderful Aussie is asked about the award by a reporter, turns to his mate and says “it’s called the legion don air, isn’t it? Well.”

    Watch the whole thing.

  2. Rabz

    A very important aspect of D-Day was that the Allies took their own sweet time in getting around to it.

    Given that Stalin was jointly responsible for the war in the first place and for the free hand that subsequently allowed the nayzees in Poland, the West and the Balkans, the Allies, as far as I’m concerned, had a moral duty to ensure that those dunderheaded mass-murdering paralytic stalinist rapist troglodytes were bled dry for as long as possible.

    Just as I have very little sympathy for the victims of the allied bombing campaign against Germany*, I have even less sympathy for those stalinist shitheads. They had an absolute frigging gall demanding any earlier opening of a second main front in the West (and Italy was certainly no cakewalk, BTW).

    The one truly disastrous drawback was the resultant oppression of Eastern Europe and the second monstrous betrayal of the Poles.

    *It was the fucking Germans who started the widespread bombing of civilians (during the Battle of Britain) in the first place and as I’ve noted before, there are no moral absolutes in a conflict such as the Second World War.

  3. Alfonso

    The Longest Day…. and the Great Generation that won WW2 is almost gone .

    D Day is not possible now. OH&S says the effort must be limited because there are not enough PTSD counsellors to go around and comments describing the undesirability of the Nazis would be prosecuted as causing “offence” to resident Germans under S18C.

  4. Baldrick

    Many people think the ‘D’ in D-Day stood for designated day, decision day, doomsday, or even death day.
    The ‘D’ in D-Day simply stands for Day. This coded designation was used for the day of any important invasion or military operation.
    June 6, 1944 was not the only D-Day of World War II. Every amphibious assault—including those in the Pacific, in North Africa, and in Sicily and Italy—had its own D-Day.

  5. DMS

    Jesus some of those guys looked young

  6. Grant B

    The old man was there (in the air anyway). I’ve sent Sinc a couple of pics.

  7. cuckoo

    Historical illiteracy – last week, on the ABC 7pm tv news, the lovely Tamara Oudyn was doing a piece on the Normandy landing “which some have credited with turning the tide of WW2″.

  8. Zatara

    “It was the fucking Germans who started the widespread bombing of civilians (during the Battle of Britain) in the first place”

    Germans yes but at Guernica or for the WWII in Europe purist, Rotterdam.

    In the qualifying matches for WWII we find strong runners up in the Italians in Ethiopia during 1935 and the Japanese bombing of Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, Nanking and Canton in 1937.

  9. DMS

    Relativism cuckoo; all points of view are valid (except conservative ones, obviously), therefore there is no objective truth or demonstrable fact.

    It’s how you can say anything if you’re a leftard, and that statement is as valid as a demonstrated fact.

    Not to be confused with scepticism which leads to examining stated truths for supporting evidence.

  10. MacBeth

    I was almost twentyone – there were others in our small unit who were younger. We were not in the landing, but received the news on a makeshift short wave radio. The feeling at the time was that we were very glad not to be Germans.

  11. Makka

    It was such an enormous undertaking. The machinations, deceptions, lies and indeed treachery that was deployed to minimise allied losses on D-Day was breathtaking in scope. The soldiers, airmen and naval warriors that took part in the campaign all performed with such bravery and professionalism. D-Day was something beyond all our ken , unless you were there. And for the participants , well we honor them and all they stood for in putting their lives on the line.

    I recall the opening 30 minutes of Private Ryan when I saw it in the cinema. I was frozen horrified at the sheer violence of the slaughter – and that was from my comfy chair. The poor souls who were there have my enduring admiration as do all who bear arms for us.

  12. lotocoti

    I’m with Tam. For a long time the launching of the second front was advertised that way.
    Overlord saved Western Europe, but the tide was turned east of the Oder.

  13. oldsalt

    Closer to the homefront and the Battle for Australia, there are myths to be exposed. Like the myth that the E.Timorese supported us. Some individuals did and we should be grateful. However, a large majority supported Japan, to such an extent that we were forced out entirely after just 8 months, support having evaporated. Why is it important? Truth is objective and important for its own sake. And the general acceptance of this myth led us to make miscalculations later on, and may do again. Is it a myth of the Left or Right? Or both?

  14. Des Deskperson

    ‘I recall the opening 30 minutes of Private Ryan’

    A few years back, some t*rd in the SMH whose name (mercifully) escapes and who is no longer with them used the ‘Private Ryan’ meme to lament the fact that movies like that – and pop history generally – ignored the ‘enormous sacrifices’ of the people of the Soviet Union that were decisive in winning the war and ended with what he thought was the trenchant and clever line that for every ‘Private Ryan’ there were a thousand ‘Private Ivans’

    If I had had the mental energy at the time, I would have pointed out to him that while the Soviet contribution was certainly decisive, the ‘enormous sacrifices’ – a ration of at least four Russian military deaths for one German – was at least partly the result of the incompetence and bloodthirstyness of the Soviets. I would have also have posited it that the ‘Private Ryan’ scenario would have been impossible in the Soviet Union. Merely by being captured, ‘Private Ivan’ would have been deemed to have committed an act of treason. His mother, far from gaining the ear of the head of state, would have had her allowances and rations cut and would be lucky if she wasn’t Gulaged. If ‘Private Ivan’ had survived the war in a prsion camp, he would have been immediately Gulaged on his return to Russia.

  15. Rabz

    Zatara – good point, but I’d argue that the German bombing of civilian targets in the Battle of Britain was by far the largest scale of such bombing that had been seen at that point in history.

    And as we now well know, both a tactical and strategic blunder of the highest order (thanks goodness).

    Also, apologies for my contradictory observation about the moral obligation of the Allies to let the soviets cop as much of the nayzee war machine as possible – the Allies were under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to accede to soviet requests that the western front be opened in 1942 0r 1943.

  16. Infidel Tiger

    Mr Evans said the D-Day bombing campaign had a profound effect on his life.

    Legion of Honour recipient Bill Evans speaks to reporters after receiving the Honour.
    PHOTO: Bill Evans says the D-Day campaign had a profound effect on his life. (ABC TV)
    “It was the proudest day of my life, I think,” Mr Evans said.

    “I felt it was the beginning of the end, you know; a good hiding here and we’d be right but it went on for a long time, didn’t it?”

    Someone needs to be sent to a re-education camp.

    That is not an appropriate response, you magnificent bastard.

  17. stackja

    The Omaha landing did come within a hair’s breadth of failing. As Adrian R. Lewis points out in Omaha Beach: A Flawed Victory, the rigid plan for the landing simply fell apart amid the withering German fire, the dispersal of small units, and the deaths of many officers and NCOs. Soldiers ashore had to improvise a new approach. Only their valor in inching toward and destroying obstacles barring access to the beach exits prevented catastrophe. Bradley did consider evacuating Omaha Beach, but most military historians agree that he could not have done so, and that given the intricate nature of the D-Day landings, the transfer of the 1st and 29th to Utah likely would have meant chaos, not salvation, for the 4th Division troops already ashore.

  18. Ant

    They truly were the greatest generation.

  19. Molly Molloy

    Yes, Ant they were.

  20. I recall the opening 30 minutes of Private Ryan when I saw it in the cinema.

    That particular sequence should be required viewing prior to swearing in for all politicians who have the power to declare war.

  21. Infidel Tiger

    That particular sequence should be required viewing prior to swearing in for all politicians who have the power to declare war.

    So, in your learned opinion was WWII worth fighting or not?

  22. I would have also have posited it that the ‘Private Ryan’ scenario would have been impossible in the Soviet Union. Merely by being captured, ‘Private Ivan’ would have been deemed to have committed an act of treason.

    Des Deskperson, you may wish to watch “Saving Private Ryan”.
    Pvt James Ryan was not a P.o.W.

  23. So, in your learned opinion was WWII worth fighting or not?

    Of course it was.
    But not all wars were.

  24. brc

    On the unsuitability of modern day peoples, the only redeeming feature of war is that it strips away pretentious layers of crap and exposes the true heart of the people. Technology is developed quickly, useless artefacts of society are dumped and a more self-reliant, driven people emerge.

    Of course the downsides are far worse, the destruction, death and misery, and the unavoidable malignant growth in government that only shrinks back again if you lose.

  25. incoherent rambler

    That particular sequence should be required viewing prior to swearing in for all politicians who have the power to declare war.

    Referencing a movie versus -
    Pondering the fate of barely walking children rounded up by Vichy police and sent to extermination camps.
    Pondering how the work of Josef Mengele and Martin Bormann was interrupted by what started as the D-Day invasion.

    On behalf of the brave; You sir are a twat!

  26. So, in your learned opinion was WWII worth fighting or not?
    Of course it was.
    But not all wars were.

    Agreed, the U.S. Civil War is probably the most recent that the jury is still out on. The Iran-Iraq War (formerly known as “the Gulf War” until that name was resumed for a couple of later fracas’), and perhaps the most recent Peru-Chile war, fit that category.

  27. Des Deskperson

    ‘Pvt James Ryan was not a P.o.W.’

    The SMH dude seemed to think he was, maybe he hadn’t seen it either. Anyhoo, according to Wikipedia:

    “Private First Class James Francis Ryan, is a paratrooper, and is missing in action somewhere in Normandy. Marshall, after reading Abraham Lincoln’s Bixby letter, orders that Ryan be found and sent home immediately.”

    Does anyone seriously believe that the Soviet high command would have given the same orders about a ‘Private Ivan’ in similar circumstances. MIA alone would have been enough to bring him to the attention of SMERSH!

  28. I’m not challenging you Des Deskperson. I agree with 120% of what you are saying, merely I’m hashing over a couple of minor points.

    Saving Private Ivan wouldn’t have got past the first page, coz having a few brothers killed in action wouldn’t have have Soviet high command wasting three seconds speculating on the fate of a remaining brother who was somewhere up the front line.

  29. ‘Pvt James Ryan was not a P.o.W.’
    The SMH dude seemed to think he was, maybe he hadn’t seen it either.

    Why do I have the feeling that if the “SMH dude” was asked, they wouldn’t know which was the higer rank, Private or Corporal?
    Does a Corporal-Lieutanant rank higher than a Captain-Sergeant? (Actual ranks in a photo caption in my local newspaper, under a photo of some soldiers who’d attended the town’s ceremony one Anzac Day)

  30. They Don't Make 'em Like This Anymore...

    Theodore Roosevelt Jnr………”Roosevelt was instrumental in the forming of the American Legion in 1919. He later served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Governor of Puerto Rico (1929–32), Governor-General of the Philippines (1932–33), Chairman of the Board of American Express Company, and Vice-President at Doubleday Books, and as a Brigadier General in the United States Army……To land on D-Day on he wrote to his division’s commanding General….

    “You should have when you get to shore an overall picture in which you can place confidence. I believe I can contribute materially on all of the above by going in with the assault companies. Furthermore I personally know both officers and men of these advance units and believe that it will steady them to know that I am with them.[13]“……(General) Barton approved this letter with much misgiving, stating that he did not expect Roosevelt to return alive.

    Roosevelt was the only general on D-Day to land by sea with the first wave of troops. At 56, he would be the oldest man in the invasion, and the only man to serve with his son on D-Day at Normandy (Captain Quentin Roosevelt II was among the first wave of soldiers to land at Omaha beach while his father commanded at Utah beach). He rode aboard on one of twenty Higgins boats in the first wave. His boat was the first to land. Roosevelt was one of the first soldiers, along with Captain Leonard T. Schroeder Jr. (the very first soldier ashore on D-Day), off his landing craft as he led the U.S. 4th Infantry Division’s 8th Infantry Regiment and 70th Tank Battalion landing at Utah Beach……When General Barton, the commander of the 4th Infantry Division, came ashore later that day, he met Roosevelt not far from the beach. He later wrote that “Ted Roosevelt came up. He had landed with the first wave, had put my troops across the beach, and had a perfect picture (just as Roosevelt had earlier promised if allowed to go ashore with the first wave) of the entire situation. I loved Ted.”…..One GI later reported that seeing the general walking around, apparently unaffected by the enemy fire, even when clods of earth fell down on him, gave him the courage to get on with the job, saying if the general is like that it can’t be that bad…..These impromptu plans worked with complete success and little confusion. With artillery landing close by, each follow-on regiment was personally welcomed on the beach by a cool, calm, and collected Roosevelt, who inspired all with humor and confidence, reciting poetry and telling anecdotes of his father to steady the nerves of his men…….

    The MoH citation (awarded posthumously)…..”For gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty on 6 June 1944, in France. After 2 verbal requests to accompany the leading assault elements in the Normandy invasion had been denied, Brig. Gen. Roosevelt’s written request for this mission was approved and he landed with the first wave of the forces assaulting the enemy-held beaches. He repeatedly led groups from the beach, over the seawall and established them inland. His valor, courage, and presence in the very front of the attack and his complete unconcern at being under heavy fire inspired the troops to heights of enthusiasm and self-sacrifice. Although the enemy had the beach under constant direct fire, Brig. Gen. Roosevelt moved from one locality to another, rallying men around him, directed and personally led them against the enemy. Under his seasoned, precise, calm, and unfaltering leadership, assault troops reduced beach strong points and rapidly moved inland with minimum casualties. He thus contributed substantially to the successful establishment of the beachhead in France.[19]“……

    Throughout World War II, Roosevelt suffered from health problems. He had arthritis, mostly from old World War I injuries, and walked with a cane. He also had heart trouble. On July 12, 1944, a little over one month after the landing at Utah Beach, he died suddenly of a heart attack near Sainte-Mère-Église in Normandy, France. He had spent part of the day in a long conversation with his son, Captain Quentin Roosevelt II, who had participated with him in the Normandy landing. He was stricken at about 10 pm and died, attended by medical help, at about midnight. He was fifty-six years old. On the day of his death he had been selected by General Omar Bradley for promotion to major general and orders had been cut placing him in command of the 90th Infantry Division. These recommendations were sent to General Dwight D. Eisenhower for approval, but when Eisenhower called the next morning to approve them, he was told that Roosevelt had died during the night.

    When asked what the bravest act he had ever seen was, Omar Bradley responded with, “Ted Roosevelt on UTAH Beach.” –

    If you’ve ever seen The Longest Day, TR Jnr’s played by Henry Fonda.

  31. Referencing a movie versus -
    Pondering the fate of barely walking children rounded up by Vichy police and sent to extermination camps.
    Pondering how the work of Josef Mengele and Martin Bormann was interrupted by what started as the D-Day invasion.

    You could add to that list -
    The fire bombing of Dresden
    The blitz
    The destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
    The My Lai massacre

    Time to grow up.
    Modern military conflict is not about goodies and baddies.
    It is about slaughter on an industrial scale.
    It should never be glorified, but those who were unfortunate enough to have been directly involved should be.
    And they should be looked after if and when they return.
    There is so much bullshit trumpeted by politicians of all stripes on these anniversaries.
    But they go to water when it comes to honouring the survivors.
    Many here cannot distinguish between the soldier and the conflict.

  32. Pedro

    The who started the bombing claim is wrong. The theory of bombing went back earlier than that and the Brits had a strategic bombing policy before the Nazis started rearming. Further, despite a few experiments, the germans never put much effort into a strategic bomber and end up using medium bombers designed for tactical use in the BoB. The Brits were always going to bomb germany and had no choice but to do area bombing once they established that they couldn’t hit anything for shit and especially at night.

  33. Just heard child announcer on ABC24 refer to RAAF at Normandy – could not separate from Australians serving in RAF. How misinformation spreads.
    Stalin badly wanted D Day in Normandy – how far back west from where our armies were north of Rome in late 1943.

  34. incoherent rambler

    ok folks, I finally agree with you.
    Numbers is one sick puppy.

  35. The Private Bar has been taken over by the councillors.
    All the councillors are in town for some sort of extraordinary council meeting.
    They know it is Friday (there is a reason I’m dropping in that they know something)
    It happens to be the 70th anniversary of the Normandy D-Day landings. The Normandy D-Day invasion is a historical event known about (even if just a little) by just about every person with a 3-digit IQ.

    The TV in the bar is showing endless newsreel footage taken on D-Day, gliders taking off, paratroopers dropping, landing craft disgorging infantrymen, etc etc etc etc etc.

    The councillors – every last one of them – happen to be gazing at the screen. They are puzzled, their brows furrow.
    Eventually one of them speaks; “Must be some sort of Gallipoli thing eh?”

  36. Des Deskperson

    Steve, it’s also more than possible that the SMH dude didn’t understand the difference between PoW and MiA!

  37. oldsalt

    Yes Numbers. Will the current mob take responsibility in 20 years time when the guys move into their 40s and the ptsd symptoms start to pop up? This Service family is still waiting for Navy to fess up to the Korean TB epidemic on our boats. A TPI badge a few months before you kick off doesn’t do the trick. I was intrigued to see James Brown at least give the impression he cares for his former charges. There’s certainly a career waiting for him if he’s serious, not just promoting his book.

  38. Steve, it’s also more than possible that the SMH dude didn’t understand the difference between PoW and MiA!

    You mean there’s a difference?”
    It’s all just “army stuff” anyway, isn’t it?.

  39. Robert Blair

    Numbers is a modern.

    As well as being shit-scared of Death (of which there is nothing worse), the modern considers it self-evident that “peace is always better than war”.
    After all, war is “bad for children and other living things”. And it involves quite a lot of Death.

    So there goes the modern, trembling with fear that the OSH data sheets aren’t filled out properly, and considering himself that much more moral because he will accept peace, any peace, including the peace of absolute submission, before he will consider war.

    Well, in the long run, nature will sort it out. The modern will be long forgotten, what with limiting his impact on the environment and feminised to the point of sterility, he will leave no progeny.

    “There are still plenty of people left in the world, but his ilk have all gone, have they not Faisal?”
    “Yes, yes, you are right Amir – that is definitely so. By the will of Allah, Peace be upon him”.

  40. oldsalt

    What flippant couch potato rot. It’s ok to be shitscared of death sometimes, not others. Would you want to go into a bunfight with a crazy who didn’t give a shit about his own or your safety? Some guys just love being in a fight but curl up in the corner when the doctor gives them bad news. Nothing Modern, Classic or Stoic about it, all down to the evolutionary fight/flight response and the quirks of individual personality. War IS bad for children, and it’s even worse in places where people didn’t give a shit about kids’ rights in the first place. When guys come back and can’t do certain things with their kids any more, the kids start to feel cheated, hey all the other dads do this so this why can’t you? The first duty of any truly civilised State is to protect its children.

  41. As well as being shit-scared of Death (of which there is nothing worse), the modern considers it self-evident that “peace is always better than war”.

    I have said none of these things. I get more than a little pissed off, however, at the armchair generals who glorify war, and the politicians who sail along on the coat tails of soldiers who have either made the ultimate sacrifice, or who have returned from conflict damaged.

    Peace is better than war, unless there is no other option. WW2, which defeated Fascism both in Europe and Asia was necessary, but WW2 is an exception last century, especially as far as participation of this country is concerned.

    Anyone who glorifies modern military conflict should be dropped in the middle of it for a day or two.

    If they survive, they can then determine whether it is indeed glorious, or whether it is depraved, obscene and futile.

    So there goes the modern, trembling with fear that the OSH data sheets aren’t filled out properly, and considering himself that much more moral because he will accept peace, any peace, including the peace of absolute submission, before he will consider war.

    If you are so enamored of conflict, you could always sign up as a mercenary. There are plenty of opportunities – Syria, or perhaps Somalia.

  42. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Well yes, Numbers is a modern socialist of the totalitarian stalinist kind. He is also a racist, a cowardly cur for his attacks on the Cat’s ladies, a serial and unashamed liar, an anti-semite, a soulless bigot and a drama queen of truly epic proportions.

    Each post he makes reveals more of what a vile piece of effluent he is.

    For example:

    Modern military conflict is not about goodies and baddies.

    See the oh-so-modern-socialist moral relativism? This piece of gutter slime sees absolutely no difference between Al Qaeda terrorists sawing off a living Daniel Pearl’s head in front of the camera and a US or Australian soldier trying to stop such acts from happening. he sees no difference between indiscriminate acts of murder of civilians by terrorists and military action to stop the terrorists from perpetrating such acts.

    In 1942 Germany, Numbers would be in the Einsatztruppen (that’d be him on the left, trying to impress his mates with a twofer)

    He is simply THE most disgusting excuse for a human being to befoul this site.

  43. oldsalt

    The real ‘Modern’ is the couch potato who lives in front of a computer. Wonder what that’ll do to his ballsack over time? I know plenty who went to Vietnam, got the shit scared outta them and wish they’d never gone, then got a decent woman from Manila and had more progeny than the whole bloody street. Peace is nature’s winner where kids are made. By the way. seeing that rants are acceptable here, I’ve never seen a place with fewer prams than Canberra. Old, grey, white, no prams, a token African selling meatballs in the market and Canberra calls it multicultural.

  44. Well yes, Numbers Mk50 is a modern socialist fascist of the totalitarian stalinist Hitlerian kind. He is also a racist, a cowardly cur for his attacks on the Cat’s ladies, women in general a serial and unashamed liar, an anti-semite, an unashamined gun wanker soulless bigot and a drama queen of truly epic proportions.

    He also so far up himself that he’s coming out the other end.

    FIFY

  45. Robert Blair

    Oldsalt:

    The first duty of any truly civilised State is to protect its children.

    Au contraire mon ami, first the State must produce children. Moderns like numbers will mostly not do that.

    Secondly, the State must preserve itself. For instance, by surrendering to the Nazi’s Britain could have ensured the safety of its children more effectively than putting them through the Blitz, and possible Nazi invasion.
    In the first few days of June 1940 this was seriously considered by the British Cabinet. For several crucial hours Lord Halifax appeared to have the numbers for a negotiated surrender.
    It was Churchill’s pig-headedness that actually plunged the nation into full-on WW2.

    You, Old Salt, would have voted with Halifax and surrendered.
    And, at least for the moment, you would have saved the lives of thousands of children, who instead were condemned by Churchill to die fiery, horrible deaths in German bombing attacks.
    Just think: you would have saved the lives of thousands of children!

    Alternatively, they could have shipped all their children to Canada (rather than just some of them) and then promptly given up to the Nazis.

    But in both those cases (and innumerable others where “the safety of the children is paramount”) the state has effectively ceded the children’s welfare onto others, in those two cases the dark wilderness of Canada, or the tender mercies of Adolf and friends.

    So, I am afraid, Old Salt, that yours is the flippant couch potato rot. Tossed it off without thinking it through.

    I will say it again so that even Old Salt’s (perhaps you even have a naval tatoo, eh?) can understand:

    Yes, war is bad. But there are worse things than war.

    And Death is bad. But there are worse things than death.

  46. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Interesting how Numbers routinely admits to all thosde charges, and never denies even one them.

    Thanks for admitting what you are. Again.

    Hey, aren’t you running late for your local white supremacist meeting? And you have to get up early tomorrow for your regular gig screeching racist abuse at non-whites in your town park, too.

  47. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Hey Numbers, congratulations!

    An entire thread and you have not let your normal obsession with masturbation loose even once!

    Told you attending all those Onanists Anonymous meetings would help.

    baby steps…

    Next stop for you, racists anonymous!

  48. lotocoti

    We’ve almost made the week without our friend whining about his unwilling role in hindering the glorious march of socialism.
    Close the thread before it’s too late.

  49. 1735099

    Moderns like numbers will mostly not do that

    Strange.
    Those four fine young adults bearing my name must be figments of my imagination……

  50. 1735099

    Interesting how Numbers routinely admits to all thosde (sic) charges and never denies even one (sic) them

    Interesting how Mk50 routinely becomes unintelligible under pressure.

    Thank Christ he wasn’t in my rifle section in SVN.
    He would have been a lay down misere for an UD*.

    *Unauthorised discharge

  51. Toiling Mass

    Always worth reprinting:

    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.

    -John Stuart Mill

  52. Makka

    This thread is about the warriors who went ashore. Perhaps we should leave it at that?

  53. Grant B

    Makka, there were others there who were above the shore as well

  54. Makka

    I agree Grant and I I did not leave them out in my earlier post.

    “The soldiers, airmen and naval warriors that took part in the campaign all performed with such bravery and professionalism.”

  55. Makka

    “Makka, there were others there who were above the shore as well”

    In fact, there were many far from Normandy on June 6th , 1944 who died terrible deaths so that the landings could be successful. As I commented earlier, it was such an enormous undertaking , many sacrificed their lives for it’s success.

  56. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Rabz:

    A very important aspect of D-Day was that the Allies took their own sweet time in getting around to it.

    Shipping and logistics, shipping and logistics, shipping and logistics.

    The logistics requirements were staggering, and it simply took years to stop the loss of shipping, build replacmenets for what had been lost, and then move the vast military resources across. And before that could be done, an enormous efforts had to be made to build the logistics infrastructure in the UK to support it all.

    Good example, aviation fuel.

    The British hollowed out a mountain near the great tanker port of Milford Haven, and built a pipeline network to have reticulated avgas piped to the major Bomber Command, Fighter Command and Transport Command airfields. They had no choice – massive above-ground fuel farms took up land teh bomb dumps had to have and were just too vulnerable to attack. A ‘normal’ 120 heavy bomber sortie cycle used a million litres of fuel.

    If you take a gander at the photographs of the major air bases, you’ll notice that something’s missing. They had no big fuel farms. It puzzled the hell out of the Germans.

    For the invasion, they connected this national reticulated system to France via PLUTO (pipeline under the ocean – see here) and it delivered 172 million gallons by the end.

    Don’t forget also that the British had to build up a vast food reserve to feed millions of liberated civilians. We are talking many millions of tons of cereals alone.

    In contrast, the Soviets, when ‘liberating’ Poland, let the Polish civilians starve. What they did in germany was worse, whereas the British and Americans did their logistic best to stop even the German population from starving.

  57. oldsalt

    Apart from blood group, no tatts. Dad’s half finished ‘roo which looked like a dog, wrapped in a half coloured flag as the cops dragged them back to the boat, put me off them.

    Still, I’ve seen guys not too far north of us die clutching a magic charm refusing evac to hospital. Don’t know if they were Moderns or something else, didn’t think of it at the time, but hey next time I deploy with the UN I’ll be certain to ask them. Not.

    Death was certainly bad for them, and what was even worse is their kids, if they had any, probably won’t get an education and certainly no welfare coz there aint none. Not nature’s winners.

    God Country and Family still works for this Service family, you just can’t do them all properly at the same time. Had somebody told me this when I was 18 and an evil little prick, I could have done it in 3 parts, one by one. I never put my kids first when other more peaceloving guys did, thank God I still have a family and now they get what’s left of me. Couldn’t give a rats for the hypothetical tosh of couldabin European history, happy enough to have contributed to my country’s own. And now it’s time for kids first.

  58. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    A very important aspect of D-Day was that the Allies took their sweet time in getting around to it

    Didn’t read it until recently, but there was one contingency plan “Operation Greenback” which called for an invasion of Europe in the event of a Soviet collapse on the Eastern front – the words “suicide attack” do suggest themselves.

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