Climate Criminals of the World – Rejoice: Carbon Tax Repealed!

A message from John Roskam:

A few minutes ago the Senate voted to repeal the carbon tax. Let’s pause a moment to reflect on our achievement.

The Institute of Public Affairs has never wavered from its principles. The IPA will always stand up for what is right, not what is popular.

The IPA has always stood firm against carbon taxes – even when every political leader in Australia thought they were a good idea.

Abbott ETS

With high-quality research, compelling analysis, and a loud voice communicating the evidence, we changed the debate.

Together, we’ve now won the debate.

It was your financial support that allowed the IPA to do all of this.

So thank you for your courage. You did what was right – not what was easy. And we prevailed.

I have an op-ed on The Drum talking about the carbon tax:

The repeal of the carbon tax should not be seen as bad politics stymying good policy. No doubt that is what carbon tax supporters will argue, but like WorkChoices before it, the carbon tax was bad policy on many levels. Ultimately both policies suffered from the same defect – a lack of democratic legitimacy.

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483 Responses to Climate Criminals of the World – Rejoice: Carbon Tax Repealed!

  1. Perfidious Albino

    +1 Ari – and how prescient was Conan?

  2. Well spotted, Pete of Perth: The Carbon Love Call:

    Oo-oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo-oo
    Green’s, we’re telling you
    Oo-oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo-oo
    don’t tax C-O twoo
    oo-oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo-oo!

  3. struth

    I find one of the most hypocritical things about the left on this issue is their “global citizen” narrative. They seem to understand the world to be a place where all other countries are pure , virginous, green, environmentally astute countries, actively working against global warming, at great expense to themselves, and that we must at all costs avoid their judgemental scorn.
    Yet , won’t recognise global competition.
    Pure leftist propaganda designed to bring this country to it’s knees. as we all know.
    Do these numbats think no Australian travels overseas?

  4. Aristogeiton

    De Laurentiis also produced ‘Nights of Cabiria’, which is as close to art as a film has ever come, in my opinion.

  5. cohenite

    I’d be happy to have a revenue-neutral carbon tax, many economists seem to recommend that option. Keep in mind though that it was revenue neutral to the bottom income half of taxpayers

    You’re a joy Stephie; that is a truly dumb statement. A revenue neutral tax. Is there a better oxymoron this year? And not only revenue neutral generally but neutral on a social stratification basis.

    The purpose of the tax was to make life harder and more expensive so the illusion of renewables would become competitive. Since renewables can never replace reliable constant fossil power theoretically the tax could have gone up forever. And since inevitably power would be rationed the bottom half would have be disproportionality disadvantaged in the scramble to make do with decreasing power.

    Stephie is a fuckwit I’m afraid but should be encouraged to hang around so the ongoing stupidity of the AGW believers can continued to be marvelled at.

  6. Tom

    Doomlord flushes out the zombies at Teh Dumb:

     No Time Like The Future:
    17 Jul 2014 1:27:54pm
    Australia tried.

    Now with Abbott we’ll do carbon the hard way.

    Or let the carbon party run on..

    Should we care? We will be gone in 50 years.
    • D.G.:
    17 Jul 2014 12:01:00pm
    “The increasing gap between predicted and actual warming hasn’t helped either.”

    Complete crap. Warming is proceeding exactly as predicted. Of course it is – it’s an inevitable consequence of some pretty basic physics. CO2 in the atmosphere traps heat. The planet warms as the proportion increases. The actual scientific debate is about how quickly that warming will happen – but even with conservative estimates, if currents emissions rates continue the consequences will be catastrophic. The ridiculous denialist claim that it isn’t is based on ignoring the oceans, where the vast majority of heat is stored.
    o Apologist:
    17 Jul 2014 12:45:20pm
    I am so sick of these flat earthers. If you don’t believe the world will end due to climate change…you are just crazy. If the world had a carbon tax we would be saved!

  7. Megan

    The terminally stupid Sarah Hyphen-Dumb tweeted about the “climate sceptic grubs”. No thanks, Dumbo, I prefer to be a hardened Climate Criminal. Pay attention to Mumsy’s speech to the Senate the other night, she knows how to put a few thousand words together. Boring and not coherent but she knows how to warn us of the coming apocalypse . No, not the climate one, the totalitarian, re-education one.

  8. Infidel Tiger

    Climate update: Snow falling in suburban Melbourne.

  9. cohenite

    CO2 in the atmosphere traps heat.

    Credit where credit is due; the alarmists have sloganized this bullshit down to a T:
    Carbon pollution
    Global warming
    Climate change
    Greenhouse
    Ocean acidification
    Melting
    etc
    In a way this sloganisation is appropriate because there is no substance to AGW and reducing [sic] it to a pithy terminology is an adequate way of representing it.

    On the other hand the sceptics have had no success in producing contrary slogans and terms.

  10. notafan

    77,663 ‘signatures’ someone must have RSI,

  11. James in Melbourne

    Is Anna still an item with green-as-grass Simon of GetUp? Have they bred yet?

    They could not possibly foist another carbon criminal upon the world. They would have to build 50,000 bio-degradeable yurts in Tajikistan to offset their sprog’s projected lifetime emissions.

  12. incoherent rambler

    IT, link?

  13. nerblnob

    o Apologist:
    17 Jul 2014 12:45:20pm
    I am so sick of these flat earthers. If you don’t believe the world will end due to climate change…you are just crazy. If the world had a carbon tax we would be saved!

    Haha. That’s gotta be a pisstake.

  14. What ever it takes

    How long before Gillard and Flannery sell their waterfront homes and head for the hills, now that climate Armageddon is coming.

  15. incoherent rambler

    Melbourne scientists say: “frickin’ cold outside”.
    The carbon tax is repealed on a bitterly cold day in Melbourne.
    God does have a sense of humour.

  16. Quick question. Wasn’t the libertarian brethren at Catallaxy demanding a carbon tax back in 2007/2008?

    IIRC, there was discussion on the ALS blog (to which I was once a contributor) where some (Humphreys, in particular) were pushing a revenue neutral carbon tax as the “least worst” solution, since he was convinced some action was inevitable. It caused quite a rift, from memory – however, as far as I know, it was never LDP policy (at least not in 2007, when I was a candidate)

  17. Tom

    This is just beautiful — on the day of the air tax’s abolition — in the Melbourne communist left underground’s daily newsletter:

    Parts of Melbourne’s outskirts are being dusted with snow as a wintry blast hits the state, bringing extreme weather warnings with it.

    There have been reports of snow in Montrose, near Mount Dandenong, and in Woodend, near the Macedon ranges.

    Around Victoria, snow has been reported in the Yarra Valley, Trentham and in the Otways.

    Bureau of Meteorology senior forecaster Chris Godfred said snow could fall as low as 600 metres.

    “Certainly any high point such as Mount Dandenong would be a chance and other areas such as Mount Macedon I think would certainly be a candidate too,” he said.

    “It could be cold enough for snow to settle on the ground in some areas but I wouldn’t predict it would be of any significant depth.”

    Snow has fallen in Ballarat and Macedon and there have also been reports of snow falls in the Yarra Valley and at Lavers Hill, about 50 kilometres inland from Apollo Bay, in the state’s south-west.

    Snow was also reported in nearby Beech Forest, also in the Otways.

    Beech Forest resident Gwynneth Cowley said there had been rain, sleet and hail in the area on Thursday, and that it was nice to get a bit of snow.

    “It’s just been freezing up here, so a bit of snow is good compensation,” she said.

    It is also snowing in Trentham, about 90 kilometres north-west of Melbourne.

    H/T IT.

  18. lotocoti

    Has anyone checked on our self-exiled one true Conservative?
    Perhaps a JC Hotline call, just to make sure he’s not taking the kiddies down to Less Than Best for some Heaven’s Gate Limited Edition Nikes.

  19. harrys on the boat

    At the end of the day what is Milne so pissed off about? Her Gerbil Worming Guru, Al Gore stood shoulder to flabby neck with the Member for Chronic Heart Disease telling everyone the carbon tax repeal was a good thing.

    Therefore the sour faced old bitch should just shut the fuck up.

  20. Ms Dolittle

    Climate update: Snow falling in suburban Melbourne.

    So I can put off painting the roads and roofs white until tomorrow? Seriously, my neighbour suggests this would mitigate global warming and he has a hard science degree. Honestly, where does one start?

  21. nerblnob

    Either way, the carbon tax repeal is but a symbolic victory.

    Over a “symbolic” tax which un-symbolically increased the price of power and therefore the price of everything? Affecting the poorest most? And you think the only opposition was from “the Right” ?

    You need to stop tilting at windmills and get a grip on reality.

  22. .

    So I can put off painting the roads and roofs white until tomorrow? Seriously, my neighbour suggests this would mitigate global warming and he has a hard science degree. Honestly, where does one start?

    It probably would. Most of global warming in unadjusted data is the urban heat island effect. Albedo is a real thing.

  23. Gab

    Climate update: Snow falling in suburban Melbourne.

    LOL

    Gaia is physically manifesting itself and celebrating the carbon dioxide tax repeal. Tim Flannery was unavailable for comment. (Tim who?)

  24. incoherent rambler

    Snow in Melbourne was predicted by the models.

    The models being Cate Blanchett …

  25. Ms Dolittle

    Albedo is a real thing.

    Seeding clouds would be a lot easier.

  26. Tom

    Has anyone checked on our self-exiled one true Conservative?

    It’s the political story of the year, but he has apparently banned the subject until he has a chance to construct the new narrative. He is relying on the Fucktard Media Industrial Complex to provide him with his talking point on tonight’s PM, 730 and Lateline. As you know, Shitfer never posts anything at Dogshit Today until someone else has said it first.

  27. H B Bear

    Is Anna still an item with green-as-grass Simon of GetUp? Have they bred yet?

    Based on his Q&A performance the Fake Sheikh might have some GetUp/performance issues … you know like staying awake.

    More tofu son!

  28. Talleyrand

    So much joy at the Bitter Tears of Christine Van Knut after the axing of the Carbon Tax. Now to double down and end the RET rorts and failed ARENA investments

    The political impotence of Bandt in the Reps is almost as much fun.

  29. cynical1

    Labor will go to the next election promising zombie carbon taxes,homosexual marriage and open borders. I wonder what libertarians will say?

    FIFY.

  30. Walter Plinge

    The repeal will enhance Australia’s standing in the world community.

  31. Stephan

    The nub of (flawed) logic in Sinclair Davidson’s piece in The Drum (amidst the political asides, irrelevancies, casual attempts at denialism and self-victimisation):

    The second major defect – arguably the most important – is that our carbon tax was a local tax. If global warming is a problem, then it requires a global solution. A local tax will do nothing to address global warming, apart from imposing high costs on the local economy.

    Getting a ‘global solution’ going is never going to happen in unison, as Davidson is well aware, but in a piecemeal fashion. If every country uses that basic, failed ‘Tragedy of the Commons’ logic, nothing will get done – which of course is what the professor no doubt wants, though he expresses it in more cautious, obfuscatory language.

    Australia should fully commit to participating in a global solution to global warming – but until then, pursue our own interests.

    Haha! Yeah, in other words – you fully support, in effect, the policy positions of a climate denialist, without wanting to wear that professionally inconvenient label yourself. So brave.

  32. notafan

    The political impotence of Bandt in the Reps is almost as much fun.

    The entertainment continues with an encore from the nobody in Indi.

  33. the policy positions of a climate denialist, without wanting to wear that professionally inconvenient label yourself. So brave.

    AAAAAhahahahahahahaha i so enjoy seeing the shills butthurt.

  34. Bruce of Newcastle

    Seriously, my neighbour suggests this would mitigate global warming and he has a hard science degree.

    What a small minded person. In 2006 I proposed the ultimate in painting rocks white. Paint the whole Earth!

    Unfortunately when I did a patent search it turned out that the US Navy had invented it already in 1974.

    Then I looked at the climate data and found that the world didn’t actually need to be saved. As it happens some others have made a few bucks pursuing just this geoengineering option, which shows you I could be rich RICH I tell you except for this terrible propensity to honesty that I have. Its embarrassing.

  35. Stephan

    Therefore the sour faced old bitch should just shut the fuck up.

    Agreed, Bronwyn Bishop was well past her use-by date before she sullied the Speaker’s chair.

  36. cohenite

    How tall are you stephie?

  37. Tom

    ShakeMyHead.com weather girl Peta Hannam lists the air tax repeal’s winners and losers:

    On the face of it, the winners from the repeal of Australia’s carbon price will be the 371 liable entities paying the tax and consumers who forked out more for goods and services as the emissions charge was passed on.

    Losers will include firms that have profited from their relatively low carbon output compared with rivals, such as Snowy Hydro and Hydro Tasmania. Accounting and corporate advisory firms are also likely to cut jobs as demand for their expertise dims.

  38. incoherent rambler

    consumers who forked out more for goods and services as the emissions charge was passed on

    Everyone?

  39. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie, regale us with your enthusiast ebonics some more. Throw us a bone, because we are so rarely graced with the presence such a pimp-assed (is that how you say it; or is it “arsed”?) MF. How about “I’m so 2008/You’re so 2000 and late”, or some such. You’re such a cool chick.

  40. Stephan

    How tall are you stephie?

    About 1 st. dev. above average, why? You didn’t know they stacked shit that high?

  41. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie, you sound hot. a/s/l?

  42. Infidel Tiger

    Getting a ‘global solution’ going is never going to happen in unison

    Soothing news.

  43. cohenite

    About 1 st. dev. above average, why? You didn’t know they stacked shit that high?

    Not exactly but that’ll do.

  44. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1385263, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:15 pm
    [...]
    About 1 st. dev. above average, why? You didn’t know they stacked shit that high?

    No Stephanie, your shit (shizz/shitz) is for real (fo real/fo realz?)… How am I doing?

  45. thefrollickingmole

    Heres another example of why you should be extremely suspicious of the green gods.

    There’s an interesting piece over at National Review concerning a (quite possibly illegal) iron fertilisation experiment that was done off the west coast a couple of years back. It certainly seems to work given that the salmon runs after it were magnificently large. And other research shows that carbon dioxide is indeed sequestered, permanently, as a result of the technique. So, more fish, less carbon dioxide, what’s not to like? Except the very people you think would support those two aims, environmentalists, seem to be the very people most opposed to this idea. There’s also the reason why it so interests me and other economic types: it appears to be amazingly cheap as a way of dealing with climate change. Quite possibly the cheapest thing we could possibly do about it.

    Acting collectively, the Haida voted to form the Haida Salmon Restoration Corporation, financed it with $2.5 million of their own savings, and used it to support the efforts of American scientist-entrepreneur Russ George to demonstrate the feasibility of open-sea mariculture — in this case, the distribution of 120 tons of iron sulfate into the northeast Pacific to stimulate a phytoplankton bloom which in turn would provide ample food for baby salmon.
    ……
    The verdict is now in on this highly controversial experiment: It worked.

    In fact it has been a stunningly over-the-top success. This year, the number of salmon caught in the northeast Pacific more than quadrupled, going from 50 million to 226 million. In the Fraser River, which only once before in history had a salmon run greater than 25 million fish (about 45 million in 2010), the number of salmon increased to 72 million.

    So how have the swampies reacted to a low cost (possible profit if you include increased fish catches), effective and feasible means of retarding the greatest crisis since Og made fire?

    “It appears to be a blatant violation of two international resolutions,” Kristina Gjerde, a senior high-seas adviser for the International Union for Conservation of Nature told the Guardian. “Even the placement of iron particles into the ocean, whether for carbon sequestration or fish replenishment, should not take place, unless it is assessed and found to be legitimate scientific research without commercial motivation. This does not appear to even have had the guise of legitimate scientific research.”

    Silvia Ribeiro, of the international anti-technology watchdog ETC Group, also voiced her horror at any development that might allow humanity to escape from the need for carbon rationing. “It is now more urgent than ever that governments unequivocally ban such open-air geoengineering experiments,” she said. “They are a dangerous distraction providing governments and industry with an excuse to avoid reducing fossil-fuel emissions.”

    Sorry for the length and extensive quoting, but its incredible the swamp donkey herself (Milne) hasnt been asked about this just to see how she defends being anti-science.

  46. Stephan

    Stephanie, you sound hot. a/s/l?

    I don’t roll that way, sorry.

  47. Infidel Tiger

    Australia should fully commit to participating in a global solution to global warming – but until then, pursue our own interests.

    Our business should be generating as many emissions as we possibly can. Go for growth Australia! Throw off the yolk of oppression and achieve your birthright – carbon dominance!

  48. Aristogeiton

    cohenite
    #1385266, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:17 pm
    [...]
    Not exactly but that’ll do.

    I was going to go with “because you’re a cnut”, but I’m just not very inventive. Seems like Stephie has been around the block before.

  49. Tom

    And don’t forget the crony capitalists that had their snouts in the air tax trough — from my ShakeMyHead link above:

    AGL on Thursday (July 17) said the repeal of the carbon price would reduce earnings before interest and tax by about $186 million. The sum includes the loss of $100 million in “transitional assistance arrangements” for its Loy Yang A power plant in Victoria and about $86 million from anticipated falls in its wholesale power prices paid to its renewable energy and gas generation units.

  50. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1385269, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:18 pm
    [...]
    I don’t roll that way, sorry.

    Are you a lezzo, Stephie? You and that Wong chap might be a good match.

  51. Bruce of Newcastle

    Getting a ‘global solution’ going is never going to happen in unison

    Stephan – The global solution is this: do nothing.

    That is the moral option. There is no CAGW.

    As I just posted, once I was interested like you in saving the world. It is just the most attractive thing for a scientist, since we all go into the profession to make a difference. I had, and still have, several potential climate mitigation options which would be quite valid if there was any warming (which there isn’t). The geoengineering option was entirely valid and if I’d pushed it at the time (as I could’ve done since I do have the ear of people in the heirarchy of such things) I would have been a couple years ahead of the team reported in the NatGeo article and elsewhere. One quite valid option on solar energy has yet to be mentioned anywhere, so remains completely novel as well as being superior in its economics, but I’d be a hypocrite if I pursued it.

    Mate, you do need to think about these things. The data says no, there isn’t any CAGW occurring, and because of the effects of the Sun on cloud cover and other such non human affected climate processes there cannot be a catastrophic warming caused by us. Find yourself a different windmill to tilt at, this one is not going to do anything except cause you disappointment and heartache. Its the Sun, stupid.

  52. Stephan

    No Stephanie, your shit (shizz/shitz) is for real (fo real/fo realz?)… How am I doing?

    Sorry mate. I’d stick with the priviledged, righteous indignation thing – probably gives a better dopamine rush anyway.

  53. incoherent rambler

    I must know. Is the burning of witches carbon neutral?

  54. JC

    Where’s stepford on this joyous day?

    Hey step, are you depressed? Try electric shock treatment you fuck.

    Have you got your fat stupid head around the fact that the climate models are fucked and that you’re going on the disability pension?

  55. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1385277, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:23 pm
    [...]
    Sorry mate. I’d stick with the priviledged, righteous indignation thing – probably gives a better dopamine rush anyway.

    But I’m here to learn sweetheart, and you’re so cool; I just know you could teach me a thing or two about the language of the streets. Holla!

  56. Stephan

    Stephan – The global solution is this: do nothing.

    That is the moral option. There is no CAGW.

    Sinclair Davidson seems to disagree:

    “Australia should fully commit to participating in a global solution to global warming”

    …unless he’s just paying lip service to greenies? Love to get some thoughts on this.

  57. And Another Thing

    It’s great to be rid of this useless tax. But what’s not so great is that the government, elected by the people to do just that, has been frustrated in abolishing it for nine months. Voters should realize that Labor and the Greens couldn’t dare less about their wishes.

  58. Aristogeiton

    JC, isn’t he going off the DSP?

  59. JC

    Climate justice. We want climate justice!

  60. cohenite

    Is the burning of witches carbon neutral?

    Burning anything is not neutral; it blocks the view of the stars.

  61. Aristogeiton

    OMG. Sinc said something!? Fuck, I’d better change my mind because I’M A FUCKING SLAVE…

  62. incoherent rambler

    Bruce. +1

  63. Aristogeiton

    Climate justice indeed JC. Climate change causes rapes:

    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/climate-change-murder-rape

    That’s what I’ll tell the judge at sentencing.

  64. incoherent rambler

    Climate justice. We want climate justice!

    When do we want it? Now!
    Why do we want it? Dunno!

  65. Fisky

    John Kwiggin is furious! How dare the counter-revolutionaries repeal socialism!!

    So, after some farcical manoeuvres, the Senate has passed Abbott’s legislation removing the carbon price. I hope and believe that this outcome will be reversed in due course, but those who brought it about will stand condemned by history.

    It’s not merely that this is a bad policy, which will impose large and increasing costs (depending on how long it takes us to get back on track) on Australia and the world into the future. Even more damning is the fact that this action is entirely based on conscious lies, embraced or condoned by everyone who has actively supported it.

    First, and most obvious, no one (least of all Tony Abbott) believes that the government’s “Direct Action” policy is a superior alternative to the carbon price, one that will deliver emissions reductions more rapidly and at lower costs. It is, as everyone knows, a cynical ploy put forward simply to allow the government to say that it has a policy.

    In reality, Abbott and the rest want to do nothing, and the motives for this desire are entirely base. For a minority of the do-nothing group, it is simply a matter of financial self-interest associated with the fossil fuel industry. For the majority, however, it is the pursuit of a tribal and ideological vendetta. Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    Most of these people would describe themselves as climate “sceptics”. There is no such thing. That is, there is no one anywhere who has honestly examined the evidence, without wishful thinking based on ideological or cultural preconceptions, and concluded that mainstream science is wrong. Most “sceptics”, including the majority of supporters of the conservative parties, are simply credulous believers in what their opinion leaders are telling them. Those opinion leaders are engaged, not in an attempt to determine the truth, but in a cultural vendetta against their enemies or in an ideologically-driven attempt to justify a predetermined do-nothing position.

    This is a sad day, but one that will come back to haunt those who have brought it about.

  66. Stephan

    OMG. Sinc said something!? Fuck, I’d better change my mind because I’M A FUCKING SLAVE

    Well, apparently there was some semblance of sanity here re: climate change around 07/08 before the neo-liberal astroturf campaign ‘corrected’ the narrative, so clearly there was a notable change in flock behaviour. I’m betting the same principles of social psychology apply now.

  67. Aristogeiton

    Wait Fisky. The Red Quiggle said that? He’s a serious economerist. I’ve had this all wrong. And Sinc too. Fuck. Time to change my mind. Plibbers for PM! Carbon justice! Soak the rich, wring them out and tax them completely dry!

  68. Fisky

    Somebody needs to track down that chick from the NSW Minerals Council. When the Leftist Establishment was riding high in 2009 I remember her breathless support for green taxes and open borders. Heather Ridout is another one who must be held to account.

    Anyone in the business community who supported the green zombie alliance needs to apologise NOW!

  69. H B Bear

    Thanks Fisky. This is turning out to be more enjoyable than I had thought possible.

  70. thefrollickingmole

    Queeg is fondling his balls again as he writes
    that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    Ie: owning the means of production, spreading the wealth etc? Dickwhacker hasnt found a problem yet that cant be fixed by giving the “special” classes more control over it than its owners.

  71. Aristogeiton

    “astroturf [...] narrative [...] social psychology”. Are you a left-wing political version of SCIgen, Stephie?

  72. Fisky

    Kwiggin:

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    If ever you wanted proof that reversing the setback of 1989 was the real objective of climate fraud, there it is.

  73. Fisky

    Ie: owning the means of production, spreading the wealth etc? Dickwhacker hasnt found a problem yet that cant be fixed by giving the “special” classes more control over it than its owners.

    The socialists never miss a beat. For them, every problem can only be solved by abolishing property rights. There is no other solution on offer.

  74. Bruce of Newcastle

    “Australia should fully commit to participating in a global solution to global warming”

    Stephan – If this was what Sinclair Davidson said its quite correct.

    The global solution to global warming is to do nothing. I support that internationalist cooperative action. We should also responsibly contribute our fair share by doing nothing.

  75. thefrollickingmole

    Well, apparently there was some semblance of sanity here re: climate change around 07/08 before the neo-liberal astroturf campaign ‘corrected’ the narrative years of dud predictions, climategate and low rent shysters dipping into the public purse.

    Fixed it for you.

  76. H B Bear

    Kwiggers really is losing it.

    Someone should go and check he is alright.

  77. .

    Kwiggin:

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    Oh dear God. Imagine being taught by this totalitarian loon.

  78. Infidel Tiger

    Anyone in the business community who supported the green zombie alliance needs to apologise NOW!

    200% retrospective taxation on any business with a carbon neutral or carbon offset policy.

    Carbon trials NOW!

  79. Aristogeiton

    I demand reparations. JC, I want your strongest market position in toto.

  80. .

    Stephan,

    You’re back? Please try to accept the evidence that catastrophic warming isn’t happening and that Mann, Jones et. al., are crooks and spivs.

    Please don’t cut and run again.

  81. Stephan

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    This so completely well expressed there’s really nothing more to add.

  82. Aristogeiton

    Holy shit IT. Extreme weather conditions. Kwiggles was right! Climate change is “real”.

  83. Peter from SA

    Carbon trials NOW!

    First Malcom’s Rolodex must be seized, then we can make a list …

  84. George Brandis thanks for NOTHING

    Most of these people would describe themselves as climate “sceptics”. There is no such thing. That is, there is no one anywhere who has honestly examined the evidence, without wishful thinking based on ideological or cultural preconceptions, and concluded that mainstream science is wrong..

    Apparently, I don’t exist. And Bruce of Newcastle, and Andrew, etc.

    Thanks for clearing that up John. You can cry yourself to sleep tonight.

  85. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie, can you tell whomever is operating your Python script to restart it with the –hetero option? For their information, it still a long way from passing the Turing test.

  86. Mr Rusty

    What a small minded person. In 2006 I proposed the ultimate in painting rocks white. Paint the whole Earth!
    Unfortunately when I did a patent search it turned out that the US Navy had invented it already in 1974.

    You think that’s dissappointing? Imagine how distressed I was when the warmistas failed to adopt my plan to reduce Co2 by sewing them all together mouth-to-anus which would result in;

    1. Absorption of methane emissions
    2. Only one person exhaling Co2
    3. An era of peace and quiet

    I think the issue was that they couldn’t determine which end of Milne was the mouth and which was the arse as they looked exactly the same.

  87. Peter from SA

    Snow in suburban Melbourne.

    Come to think of it – I do believe in Climate Change – about four times each year.

  88. Tintarella di Luna

    Someone should go and check he is alright.

    Is it R U OK Day? Does he need a toothbrush?

  89. .

    Stephan,

    Are you ready to examine the fraud in the Holocene data, Hockey Stick, Darwin temperature record and the like, along with the internal censorship by Jones?

    Do you have time to discuss the failure of the computational models, regression analysis halving the claimed forcing parameters and so on?

  90. Aaron

    Heather Ridout Sellout is another one who must be held to account.

    FTFY. Isn’t she on the board of the Climate Change Authority? Ah she is and what fine company she keeps.

  91. George Brandis thanks for NOTHING

    Kwiggers really is losing it.

    Someone should go and check he is alright.

    No.

  92. Aristogeiton

    Tint, since he is a ‘climate criminal’, he may be needing one for the big house…

  93. Tintarella di Luna

    This so completely well expressed there’s really nothing more to add.

    yes there is it’s this: /sarc

  94. Aristogeiton

    Mr Rusty
    #1385323, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:48 pm
    [...]
    I think the issue was that they couldn’t determine which end of Milne was the mouth and which was the arse as they looked exactly the same

    Not to mention that they were emitting the same substance.

  95. SfB must have self-destructed. I actually VISITED his blog, and found that today’s post is all about school vouchers.

  96. Tintarella di Luna

    Tint, since he is a ‘climate criminal’, he may be needing one for the big house…

    I don’t think toothbrushes are allowed lest they be re-fashioned into shivs — I think they are allowed only such things as can’t be turned into other hurty things

  97. cohenite

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    This so completely well expressed there’s really nothing more to add.

    What a piece of detritus you are steph, no matter what your height. I guess its alright by you if a group of the Cats drop around and start confiscating your goods and chattels.

    No; that only happens to other people does it dimwit not special people like you?

  98. wreckage

    The global solution to global warming is to do nothing. I support that internationalist cooperative action. We should also responsibly contribute our fair share by doing nothing.

    NEVER. Australia must lead the world; become a world leader punching above our weight example to all the people in our region who aren’t white and mostly don’t even speak English, etc.; we will… no, WE MUST! Do far MORE nothing! WE MUST BE THE SHINING CITY ON THE HILL – OF NOTHING!

  99. Bruce of Newcastle

    Holy shit IT. Extreme weather conditions. Kwiggles was right! Climate change is “real”.

    Prof Quiggin is so brain stonkingly amazingly amazing and intelligent I swoon at his brilliance. But (ahem) the actual data shows there’s been no trend at all in normalised disaster losses in Oz over 48 years, per Pielke yesterday. And today he shows there is a falling trend in normalised world GDP losses due to weather disasters.

    Faceplant Quiggin.

    If this is what global warming does I could handle some more of it.

  100. thefrollickingmole

    Meanwhile in Bizzaro Bob Ellis world…

    When the Carbon Tax ends this morning or this afternoon, this ‘saving’ will add seven billion dollars to the deficit.

    The Hockey deficit will then be about forty-seven billion dollars, and rising.

    The Swan/Bowen deficit was about twenty-seven billion dollars.

    Not a single word about any of the blocking and spoiling measures taken by Lab and the greenfilth…
    But the comments section is great… the hotline should be running hot tonight.

    chris hunter July 15, 2014 at 8:58 am
    When the carbon tax ends today it will seem like the last Pharaoh has been dragged from his tomb.
    We will be a defeated race, led by hollow men.
    After the hugging ceremony there will be a permanent wake, for what we might have been, and for long time, will not become.
    A black day.

    Helvi July 15, 2014 at 11:46 am
    Well said ,Chris, even the heavens are crying, but even having a spot of rain offers no solace to me…

    Lefty tears, so refreshing..

  101. Aristogeiton

    Thanks Tint. I’ll be going to the big house one day, so this is invaluable. My plan is to dose up on steroids while on bail :)

  102. Grigory M

    Heather Ridout is another one who must be held to account.

    Sellout has been very quiet for a while, now. What new sinecure has she been hiding out in?

  103. Stephan

    Are you ready to examine the fraud in the Holocene data, Hockey Stick, Darwin temperature record and the like, along with the internal censorship by Jones?

    Falsehoods and irrelevancies.

    Do you have time to discuss the failure of the computational models, regression analysis halving the claimed forcing parameters and so on?

    At the end of it all, you’re left with a forcing mechanism only explained by C02.

  104. Aristogeiton

    cohenite, Stephanie has no assets. He is on welfare, studying at your expense…

  105. wreckage

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position that would be undermined by the recognition of a global problem that can only be fixed by changes to existing structures of property rights.

    This so completely well expressed there’s really nothing more to add.

    Freud AND Marx. Is there any long-past-debunked, psuedo-scientific bullshit you DON’T believe? Heyyyyyyyyyy, how ’bout them vaccines causing autism, eh? Somethin’ aughta be done about that!

  106. Are you ready to examine the fraud in the Holocene data, Hockey Stick, Darwin temperature record and the like, along with the internal censorship by Jones?

    Falsehoods and irrelevancies.

    There’s nothing like a true believer.

  107. Shelley

    IR
    That Scotland story reminds me of a conversation I had with a greenie. I was bemoaning some trees being cut down by the council in a park behind me. My argument was that it made no sense for them to have cut the trees down (they were not causing any infrastructure/plumbing issues or near buildings – it was about ‘managing risk’ – i.e. not being sued if a branch fell on someone). Anyway, my point was that I now have to use my air conditioner/fan significantly more because the shading to the early morning sun on my (and others) property had been removed by a council that had a ‘climate change strategy’ and spent significant $ on crappy pet projects. This greenie had no rebuttal and ended the conversation saying ‘so you just want to impose your views on others!’. I was very confused. I thought greenies wanted us to use less power, yet this council purposely took away natural amenity that did not need to be removed, and in fact caused home owners to use more energy, whilst expending unnecessary funds on other ‘green schemes’.

  108. Also in Bizarro Bob Ellis world, comments branch:

    Churches are closing because people don’t want to be raped.

  109. wreckage

    Their position is driven by Culture War animosity towards greens, scientists, do-gooders and so on, or by ideological commitment to a conservative/libertarian position

    To summarize: they are stupid because of their contempt for anyone whose ideology is different to theirs, alternatively they are stupid because their ideology is different to mine.

    FLAWLESS logic, clarity and consistency; just…. just flawless. Polished like a shining gem; in truth, there really is nothing more to add.

  110. Aaron

    Sellout has been very quiet for a while, now. What new sinecure has she been hiding out in?

    She’s still with the Climate Change Authority. I assume she’s working ‘pro bono’.

  111. Aristogeiton

    For those responding to Stephanie, who I think is a Python script, save time and try this:

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-liberal-insults.htm

    Please excuse the American abuse of the term ‘liberal’.

  112. .

    Stephan
    #1385349, posted on July 17, 2014 at 4:56 pm
    Are you ready to examine the fraud in the Holocene data, Hockey Stick, Darwin temperature record and the like, along with the internal censorship by Jones?

    Falsehoods and irrelevancies

    No they are not.

    The Hockey Stick was fraud.

    The Holocene data was fraud.

    Adjusting a temperature up by 2.3 degrees for no reason, is fraud.

    Do you have time to discuss the failure of the computational models, regression analysis halving the claimed forcing parameters and so on?

    At the end of it all, you’re left with a forcing mechanism only explained by C02.

    Half a degree from 1950 to 2005 – using data that has been tortured in the first place.

    We have had 17 years of cooling and a 10% increase in CO2. Solar forcing is more important, but has been arrogantly and casually dismissed.

    The models are busted. The data is compromised.

    You just don’t want to discuss this. It is too touchy a subject. Climate modelling got a ship of fools stuck in the Antarctic.

    Be reasonable and defend these failures and falsified research.

  113. Leo G

    We are indebted to 39 senators. Thank you to the 39.

    The year of 39?

  114. The tax would essentially act as a consumption tax.

    I gave the answer years ago. Change the GST to CCT (Carbon Consumption Tax) and voila! Pollution tax in place, no net change in taxation, business as usual.

    “Problem” solved in 5 minutes. That deserves a beer. Or twenty.

  115. Aristogeiton

    “Why does sexuality still define us? In an age of rampant consumerism and on-demand television, can we really be surprised that the new generation would rather listen to hip hop than appreciate the subversive nature of the works of Arnold Schoenberg? Do you think the multinational corporations would let that happen?”

    Courtesy of:

    http://www.tomforth.co.uk/guardiancomments/

    We really don’t need Stephanye, peoples.

  116. cohenite

    At the end of it all, you’re left with a forcing mechanism only explained by C02.

    Imbecile. CO2 is the only option which Doesn’t explain the non-existent rise in temperature. So in some Bizzaro way you’re right steph; CO2 is the forcing for a situation where no forcing is required.

  117. Aristogeiton

    Dot, you are ignoring the evidence of Piltdown man, which proved climate change in 1912.

  118. Andrew

    Sellout has been very quiet for a while, now. What new sinecure has she been hiding out in?

    Industry super :-/

  119. Driftforge

    Australia must lead the world

    I heard we were the first to abolish a national carbon tax. World leaders indeed.

  120. Stephan

    Any links to go with that, dot dicks dot au?

  121. Aristogeiton

    cohenite, I know you’re knowledgeable on this subject. But doesn’t forcing describe the rate at which the measurable element (CO2, in this case) effects some phenomenon (in this case, temperature)? So isn’t Stephanie’s monolithic “forcing mechanism” total bullshit, and in fact not even supported by IPCC lies?

  122. gabrianga

    Music to the ears.

    Greenpeace called the repeal ‘blindly irrational’ while the Climate Institute said it was a ‘monumentally reckless backward leap’. -

    And then to crown it

    Julian Assange has hit back at Attorney General George Brandis for saying the WikiLeaks founder should be ‘man enough’ to face Swedish sexual assault allegations -

    Having a nice day.

  123. Gab

    SfB must have self-destructed. I actually VISITED his blog, and found that today’s post is all about school vouchers.

    lol he’s in denial. SFb’s become a denialist.

  124. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1385382, posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:09 pm
    Any links to go with that, dot dicks dot au?

    Oh! Dicks! Le mot juste! You wit, you.

  125. Bruce of Newcastle

    Are you ready to examine the fraud in the Holocene data, Hockey Stick, Darwin temperature record and the like, along with the internal censorship by Jones?

    Falsehoods and irrelevancies.

    Darwin zero.
    Jones’ censorship in his own words:

    From Phil Jones To: Michael Mann (Pennsylvania State University). July 8, 2004
    “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”

    Pretty damning that.

    you’re left with a forcing mechanism only explained by C02.

    Last century’s warming was 1/2 due to the Sun, 1/3 due to ocean cycles and the IPCC’s choice of endpoints of the period and at most 1/6th due to CO2. Which fits very well with an ECS around 0.7 C/doubling.

    The solar forcing is due to modulation of cloud cover by the solar magnetic field.

  126. Falsehoods and irrelevancies.

    Stephan, masochist, meet Beer Whisperer, sadist of beclowned greenfilth.

    Once it was obvious they were manipulating temperatures to fit the narrative, the fraud was clear.

    Genuine scientists do not fraudulently adjust data to fit their pre-defined conclusions. To do so Is to bear false witness. Credibility falls to zero, zip, nil, fuck-all, nothing. Game over. Only a fool believes proven liars.

  127. Aristogeiton

    Yes, Gab. School vouchers. Championed by that bolshie Margaret Thatcher :)

  128. H B Bear

    Industry super :-/

    The last (or is it the first) refuge for a scoundrel.

  129. Aristogeiton

    I’ve always resented the term “industry super”. What the fuck does industry have to do with it? They are run by the enemy of industry: the union movement.

  130. Grigory M

    She’s still with the Climate Change Authority. I assume she’s working ‘pro bono’.

    Thanks Aaron – I assume that the /sarc is subliminal on that last sentence.

  131. Leo G

    At the end of it all, you’re left with a forcing mechanism only explained by C02.

    The only mechanism capable of affecting climate is atmospheric carbon dioxide? You’re at the end of it all, with a CO2 forcing mechanism only explained by the “beautiful minds” of the Left.

  132. Stephan

    Epic scientific fraud:

    The worst that can be said is this, as the article states:

    “At least one part of the data is bad, too.”

    Great. Find a bunch more of the thousands of measurement instruments used and you might have a case. Kinda telling that this is from 5 years ago (I assume Watts has done hundreds of similar checks by now) and it’s the best/only case for the ‘fraud’ argument.

    Next.

  133. cohenite

    But doesn’t forcing describe the rate at which the measurable element (CO2, in this case) effects some phenomenon (in this case, temperature)? So isn’t Stephanie’s monolithic “forcing mechanism” total bullshit, and in fact not even supported by IPCC lies?

    Latter yes; even the IPCC recognises other forcings; see Real Climate.

    In respect of what a forcing is this may be of assistance:

    A forcing is a factor external to or introduced to the climate system which affects, for a period, the radiative balance at the Tropopause, the boundary between the Troposphere and the Stratosphere. The IPCC recognises 2 main types of forcings; greenhouse gases, the most dominant one being CO2, and solar radiation. A feedback is a change in another quantity in the climate system as a response to a change in a forcing. The IPCC assumes that an increase in forcing from an increase in anthropogenic CO2 causes a feedback by an increase in water vapour [AR4, FAQ 1.3]. This process is measured by the change in global average temperature. However, as some scientists note, the distinction between a forcing and a feedback is not clear:

    However, disadvantageously, including non-instantaneous processes clearly blurs the distinction between forcing and feedback as there is no longer a clear timescale to separate the two; further including these processes in the forcing incorporates more uncertain aspects of a climate models response [Forster et al., 2007].5

  134. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie… “Next” troll please. Kindly get bent.

  135. Bruce of Newcastle

    Epic scientific fraud

    I’ll add that Ken Stewart in Mackay has been applying the anal probe to NASA GISS and BoM on fraudulent adjustments ever since Climategate.

    Its amazing how cold North Queensland used to be after all the adjustments were made. I calculate from GISS’s correction algorithm that the local aboriginal people saw the glaciers leave in 1200 AD.

  136. Stephan

    Aristo-git… chill out, baby.

  137. Grigory M

    Thanks also, Andrew – it’s worse than I thought. Sellout is not only on the Climate Authority board, she’s also Chairman of Australian Super and a Reserve Bank board member.

  138. Fisky

    We are still debating this rubbish with a Green-Left zombie? What’s the point? We won, they lost. Suck it up, Greenfilth!

  139. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1385410, posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:26 pm
    Aristo-git… chill out, baby.

    The wit! First it was Dot-dicks-dot-au, now Aristo-git! Your talent is wasted here. You should take your comedy act on the road! Now.

  140. H B Bear

    Without any State governments in power to park friends, relatives and branch stackers, Federal Labor are forced to go to their union masters to keep the wolves from the door.

  141. Aristogeiton

    Thanks cohenite, I think I’m mistaking forcing for feedback? Forcing describes the fact of the effect, and feedback describes the amount (ratio) of the effect? Is that right?

  142. Bruce of Newcastle

    Next.

    Then there is the US. If you’ve been watching Steve Goddard’s blogsite you’ll have seen that he has caught NOAA interpolating missing USHCN thermometer data using a climate model. Since climate models have high CO2 sensitivity they run hot, and most of the ‘warming’ in the US turns out to be due to the interpolated numbers, not the real thermometers. Heh.

    Then there was the careful study by a guy called Ed Long who looked at matched urban and A class rural sites in the 48 mainland states of the US. He found that the adjustments warmed the rural sites not the urban ones. In other words the UHIE correction is the wrong way around.

    They do this because uncorrected non-warming rural sites are an embarassment. Can’t have the US of A not warming.

    If you can give a different explanation I am open to hear it Stephan.

    Of course there is always the satellite data which is not affected by siting changes and adjustments. Of course it says we’ve been cooling for over a decade now.

  143. James of the Glen

    @Gab, “Not until the RET is gone, Direct Action is gone and all taxpayer subsidies to the green shyster industry are gone, James and income and company taxes are lowered after government spending has been reduced. We have a long way to go yet.”.

    Quite so, Gab, but when one is fighting sleaze-bag project managers, corrupt local government officials and bog-ignorant development panels, every little bit counts.

  144. Aristogeiton

    I don’t see how the temperatures need to be adjusted. Some movements will be to colder areas, some to warmer ones. Surely it will average out? Considering we are measuring global temperature here?

  145. incoherent rambler

    Let’s not talk about Darwin’s temperature record or the CET.

  146. Stephan

    Might as well cut to the chase:

    Of course there is always the satellite data which is not affected by siting changes and adjustments. Of course it says we’ve been cooling for over a decade now.

    Yes. This is the most reliable surface temperature record. Looking at the entire data set, rather than cherry-picking your favourite few years, there is a large warming trend that’s consistent with C02 forcing.

  147. Bruce of Newcastle

    I don’t see how the temperatures need to be adjusted.

    Well maybe adjustments are required and maybe they aren’t.

    But if you are a scientist making them for transparency sake you should always graph both the raw data and the adjusted datesets, even if the raw data is grey shaded in the background.

    They do not do this. They never have done this. It has required people like Ken Stewart, Willis Eisenbach and Ed Long to find and evaluate the data. And they have found enough smoking guns to fight the Battle of Waterloo.

    My own simple analysis suggests that HadCRUT contains a fair bit of uncorrected UHIE, and that is consistent with Spencer’s analysis that UHIE (which included land use changes, not necessarily urban) is larger than the IPCC give credit to.

  148. Econocrat

    Well, in answer to Lenin’s question “What is to be done?”, a carbon tax didn’t get the socialist revolution either! Back to the drawing board commies.

  149. cohenite

    Thanks cohenite, I think I’m mistaking forcing for feedback? Forcing describes the fact of the effect, and feedback describes the amount (ratio) of the effect? Is that right?

    Lot’s of people confuse forcings and feedbacks. Spencer and Braswell have done great work on this issue as the 2nd section here explains:

    Spencer & Braswell looked more closely at the nature of feedbacks and forcings and the difficulty of putting a value on feedbacks. The IPCC models assume that clouds change in response to temperature, so they are a “feedback” [AR4, WG1, 8.6.3.2]. But as Spencer & Braswell show in their 2008 and 2010 papers clouds can be a forcing factor as well. This means that if something other than temperature affects cloud cover (like changes in ocean currents or air circulation) the change in clouds would then force the temperature to change.

    In short there is no strict difference between a forcing and a feedback; but you can look at it this way; a forcing will directly effect temperature; the movement in temperature will produce a feedback in the climate system which may further affect temperature but not necessarily in the same direction as the forcing.

  150. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie, like most trolls here, you can’t fucking read:

    “Let me start with the second objection first. The earth has generally been warming since the Little Ice Age, around 1650. There is general agreement that the earth has warmed since then. ”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/

    Jesus you’re stupid.

  151. incoherent rambler

    I don’t see how the temperatures need to be adjusted.

    The BoM/CSIRO in their wisdom conducted a process where the temperature record was adjusted. The same number up as down. Sounds fair?
    The only problem is that most of the downs were prior to 1950. So yes, it looks like things are warming!
    There are few temperature records that are intact. The CET is one of them (350 years+) and it shows no trends.

    PS Modern satellite recordings have not been in operation for very long.

  152. Aristogeiton

    cohenite, so forcing does have a numerical relationship with temperature? So let’s say 0.001, that is to say that +1000PPM, without feedback, will result in +1deg?

  153. Menai Pete

    The Carbon Tax, ETS in its various forms, direct action and the global warming/climate change scare in general can be traced to Marxist economic warfare on the means of production. The attack was launched in the mid 1970s by the COMINTERN. It lay dormant and festered until the West won the cold war in the 1980s when the vanquished revived it. The (defeated) communist believers then infiltrated the political systems of Europe with the rise of Green political parties and the insidious process of indoctrination to demonise an innocent gas and distort the cost of production started.

  154. Bruce of Newcastle

    Looking at the entire data set, rather than cherry-picking your favourite few years, there is a large warming trend that’s consistent with C02 forcing.

    No there’s not, once you put in the solar and the ocean forcing. This graph since 1850 shows the oceanic cycles’ contribution.

    If you remove the underlying trend it looks like this.

    Bottom was 1906 top was 2005, which happens to be the century the IPCC likes to use. Removing the obvious artefact removes over a third of the temperature rise in the century. And drops ECS by more than a third since the IPCC ensemble models do not include the cycle, but validate to the 20thC temperature data.

    I can also demonstrate the solar forcing but more than 3 links Iand I get moderated. You can comment on the ocean cycles now if you like or I can show you the solar empirical data.

  155. cohenite

    Of course there is always the satellite data which is not affected by siting changes and adjustments. Of course it says we’ve been cooling for over a decade now.

    Yes. This is the most reliable surface temperature record. Looking at the entire data set, rather than cherry-picking your favourite few years, there is a large warming trend that’s consistent with C02 forcing.

    No. The temperature record during the satellite era has a step or break in it. That is the temperature does not correlate with the steady rise in CO2. See Stockwell:

    A Chow test for structural breaks in the surface temperature series is used
    to investigate two common claims about global warming. Quirk (2009) proposed
    that the increase in Australian temperature from 1910 to the present
    was largely con ned to a regime-shift in the Paci c Decadal Oscillation
    (PDO) between 1976 and 1979. The test nds a step change in both Australian
    and global temperature trends in 1978 (HadCRU3GL), and in Australian
    rainfall in 1982 with
    at temperatures before and after. Easterling
    & Wehner (2009) claimed that singling out the apparent
    atness in global
    temperature since 1997 is ‘cherry picking’ to reinforce an arbitrary point
    of view. On the contrary, we nd evidence for a signi cant change in the
    temperature series around 1997, corroborated with evidence of a coincident
    oceanographic regime-shift. We use the trends between these signi cant
    change points to generate a forecast of future global temperature under speci
    c assumptions.

    The break up in 1978 and down in 1997 are correlated with major physical events, the variation in ocean upwelling which moves warm surface water in the ocean to the bottom. In 1976 this upwelling partially reduced leaving solar warmed air on the surface with consequent increase in GAT. That increase in GAT occurred from 1976 to 1978; the process was reversed in 1997 with consequent pause in GAT there after.

    CO2 did not cause this.

  156. Aristogeiton

    Menai, more correctly Communists, when the Iron Curtain fell, were exiled to the Green movement.

  157. Aristogeiton

    cohenite, what kind of scientist are you (not a dig, btw; I know you have a scientific background)?

  158. Aristogeiton

    OOOh, Stephan, scepticalscience!

    http://redflag.org.au/

    Proved!

    I see your insults are of their usual quality.

  159. Stephan

    No there’s not, once you put in the solar and the ocean forcing. This graph since 1850 shows the oceanic cycles’ contribution.

    What the fuck? The ocean heating up is a symptom of AGW, not a cause.

  160. incoherent rambler

    Even if you accept the tortured temperature records(torture them for long enough and they will confess) and ignore the fact that chemists were recording higher CO2 levels in the early 1800′s and ignore the problem that century long variations are smaller than the measurement error margin , (comma) the best way to deal with a climate variation is to adapt.

  161. cohenite

    cohenite, so forcing does have a numerical relationship with temperature? So let’s say 0.001, that is to say that +1000PPM, without feedback, will result in +1deg?

    You are talking about the climate sensitivity to the forcing of CO2. It is not straightforward because of, amongst other things, lags and delays in the system. Those lags are in themselves a controversial point with the IPCC claiming equilibrium sensitivity [ES], that is when the effect of the increase in CO2 finally filters through and the temperature response is finalised, taking centuries. Other sources puts this at decades or in no time at all [ie Beenstock].

    The IPCC says ES/2XCO2 = ~ 3.2C. Other authors put it at about 0.6C most of which has already occurred.

  162. Bruce of Newcastle

    Linking to SkS won’t help you here Stephan. They are self acknowledged activists. Either the data of scientific papers. And if you link to scientific papers be prepared to defend their contents. They authors’ conclusions often aren’t supported by their own data, since the next grant requires them to sing for their supper.

  163. Bruce of Newcastle

    Data or scientific papers….typing too quick. I also should read the preview. Sorry.

  164. Gab

    Linking to SkS won’t help you here Stephan.

    LOL Stephan really is SFB.

  165. Aristogeiton

    Ok, cohenite, so:

    forcing is the fact of an effect between a measurable and the temperature?
    sensitivity is the amount (ratio) of the effect (measurable:temperature?
    feedback is that non-linear ratio of the relationship between forcing sensitivity and temperature?

    Is that right?

  166. cohenite

    What the fuck? The ocean heating up is a symptom of AGW, not a cause.

    Stephie, the ocean is not warming. Seriously this is bullshit. The ARGO buoys only go to 1800 meters yet the idiots of AGW claim the heat missing from the surface is below 2000 meters. They conclude this on the basis of its absence from the surface!

    However as the actual satellite measurements of Outgoing Longwave Radiation [OLR], the only sort the Earth can emit, show, that missing heat is leaving the planet.

  167. Bruce of Newcastle

    Stephan, the ocean is no longer heating up, if you have bothered to look. In fact its cooling.

    SST’s and ocean heat content lag TLT, but the cooling has been going on long enough that the effect has transmitted. There is no ‘heat hiding in the ocean’. There is no ‘missing heat’. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics has not been repealed despite the inconvenience it represents to the climateers.

  168. cohenite

    Aristogeiton, I am not a scientist. Bruce is the scientist.

  169. Mr Rusty

    How I am imagining sticking the repeal to the GreenLaborScum.

  170. cohenite

    What do think Bruce:

    forcing is the fact of an effect between a measurable and the temperature?
    sensitivity is the amount (ratio) of the effect (measurable:temperature?
    feedback is that non-linear ratio of the relationship between forcing sensitivity and temperature?

  171. Gab

    Stephie, the ocean is not warming.

    Good to see he’s going through the entire shyster list. Has he hit ocean assification yet?

  172. Aristogeiton

    cohenite
    #1385462, posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:09 pm
    Aristogeiton, I am not a scientist. Bruce is the scientist.

    Ok, cool. I read elsewhere your review of literature and maybe assumed that you were a scientist, because I didn’t understand most of what you were saying :)

  173. Aristogeiton

    Bruce, please don’t hesitate to brutalise my bastardisation of mathematical terms. It’s the only way I will learn :)

  174. Rousie

    Has he hit ocean assification yet?

    Or suggested it was different kind of heat?

  175. thefrollickingmole

    More bad news for the greenslime catastrophites.

    Until now, researchers estimated that there were about 1000 million tons of the fish, which accounted for a massive share of total fish biomass in the world. However, the new study estimates the population of mesopelagic fish to be around 10,000 million tons.

    Similar to lantern fish and cyclothonids, mesopelagic fishes live in the “twilight zone, between 200 and 1,000 meters (656 and 3281 feet) deep in the ocean.

    Now i hear you say “whats that got to do with climate change…well..

    The study also found that the fish rose to the upper levels at night to feed and returned to the lower levels during the day to evade predators. Therefore, the organic matter (Carbon from the feces) released 500 to 700 meters deep down. This sped up the carbon cycle and increased the concentration of inorganic carbon in the lower levels of the ocean.

    Fish poop to the rescue!

    Plus the frightbatting over “overfished oceans” takes a knock as well.

  176. H B Bear

    LOL Stephan really is SFB.

    That’s a bit harsh. On sHitfer.

  177. Bruce of Newcastle

    forcing is the fact of an effect between a measurable and the temperature?
    sensitivity is the amount (ratio) of the effect (measurable:temperature?
    feedback is that non-linear ratio of the relationship between forcing sensitivity and temperature?

    Sorry, I read that 4 times and still couldn’t work out what it was saying.

    Forcing is the energy flow which causes a temperature change. A forcing event is a specific energy event which causes a quick response temperature change, such as a Forbush event or the variations that Spencer analysed in SB2010 (which led him to calculate a TCR of 0.6 C/doubling). Feedback is the net difference between the actual temperature change and the expected temperature change based on theoretical effect of the specific components of the forcing. Sensitivity in current climate speak is the temperature rise expected for a doubling of greenhouse gas concentration, which typically is taken to be CO2, however all the greenhouse gases have a logarithmic effect due to radiation physics and absorption chemical physics. Equilibrium climate sensitivity (ECS) is the long term equilibrated effect of GHG’s and transient climate response (TCR) is the short term quick effect. There’s a lot of argument what the lag is between what constitutes ECS and what is just TCR. I think the lag is only about 10 years based on the ocean heat content graph I linked to upthread.

  178. .

    Stephan
    #1385404, posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:22 pm
    Epic scientific fraud:

    The worst that can be said is this, as the article states:

    “At least one part of the data is bad, too.”

    Great. Find a bunch more of the thousands of measurement instruments used and you might have a case. Kinda telling that this is from 5 years ago (I assume Watts has done hundreds of similar checks by now) and it’s the best/only case for the ‘fraud’ argument.

    Next.

    No.

    We shall deal with these issues one by one.

    The temps were adjusted up by 2.3 degrees. What is the justification for this?

  179. wreckage

    Or suggested it was different kind of heat?

    That would take his list to:

    Different KINDS of heat

    (possibly flavoured? Have we tested for pineapple flavoured radiation leaving the earth? Bet there isn’t any! ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL PINEAPPLE FLAVOURING WILL DOOM US ALL)

    Different KINDS of monopoly.

    (Interestingly neither have any of the structural, economic or incentive characteristics of a monopoly, only moral impulses: GOOD AND EVIL. PS: not an ideologue…)

    … Libertarians are ideologues but Marxists aren’t.

    (Extending an idea that provably and reliably works is WAY more blinkered and weird than destroying the current system in favour of one that has never been successfully implemented)

    Freud is science, neurology is voodoo.

    (Brain damage? Let’s talk about your mother…)

  180. hoppers

    Don’t understand why Stephan’s banging on about the Science.

    This whole thing’s been about Politics for quite a while now. I doubt anyone on either Political side actually cares about the Science anymore. – Unless they can use it to beat each other over the head with that is.

  181. Bruce of Newcastle

    BTW if I’ve said anything which is incorrect please correct me with an implement that Kevin Donnelly would approve of.

    I’ve never read an official definition of forcing, feedback, ECS or TCR, these are just my understanding of what they are from the fundamentals and lots of reading in the field. I’m allowed to be wrong, its character building (after the wounds heal).

  182. Gab

    Until now, researchers estimated that there were about 1000 million tons of the fish, which accounted for a massive share of total fish biomass in the world. However, the new study estimates the population of mesopelagic fish to be around 10,000 million tons.

    Aha! So the carbon dioxide tax did work?! :roll:

  183. MemoryVault

    Is Anna still an item with green-as-grass Simon of GetUp? Have they bred yet?

    A marriage of convenience. I suspect the sham ended five minutes after they realised Simon wasn’t going to win a senate quota.

    Anna’s passion for social and environmental justice was sparked at the age of 14, when she set up recycling, composting and a school sport called “environmental campaigning” at her school in Newcastle.

    The original version of this fairy tale had Anna starting an organic garden at school. Trouble is, it turned out the garden was at her primary school (remember she’s supposed to be 14 at the time), it was started by the deputy headmistress, and it had nothing to do with the environment – or “organics”. It was to teach the kids where food came from.

    Anna co-authored the book Future by Us (Hardie Grant, 2009),

    The Future, By Us was an anthology of twelve short articles about environmentalism, written by young activists who were invited to submit material through a blog. One of Anna’s submissions was chosen, along with one by Simon. There were ten other successful contributors.

    Anna is what I refer to as a “cardboard cutout” figure. The official history doesn’t bear close scrutiny. Simon is even more so. They both pale to insignificance when compared to Mathius Cormann though.

  184. Bear Necessities

    Is the Mining Tax up for repeal this evening?

  185. MsDolittle

    How are the 2 minute noodles tonight, Steph?

  186. Peter from SA

    This whole thing’s been about Politics for quite a while now.

    Yes. Ever since we have been afraid of “extreme weather events” rather than increased temperatures.

  187. MsDolittle

    Is anybody going to the book launch in Melbourne next Tuesday?

  188. Aristogeiton

    Ms. D, those are “Me Me Me Goreng”, now with extra “MsMee”. The flavour is bought and paid for by somebody else.

  189. Aristogeiton

    Ok Bruce. I am suitably humiliated. I will slink away and do some more research before I unleash my half-baked ideas upon the public :)

  190. Aristogeiton

    I always assumed Sheikh was sterile. Here’s some footage of the “man”:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we9_CdNPuJg

  191. Bruce of Newcastle

    Sorry Ari. Have you ever thought of going into legal practice or working for a Parliament drafting legislation?

  192. MsDolittle

    Ms. D, those are “Me Me Me Goreng”, now with extra “MsMee”. The flavour is bought and paid for by somebody else.

    Hah, noiss! You made me laugh, usually I have to read Ari’s comments through my fingers, too scary for me.

  193. Gab

    I’m surprised by the rumour? that the Sheik and Anna are an item. I thought the Sheik was gay.

  194. Aristogeiton

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #1385514, posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:57 pm
    Sorry Ari. Have you ever thought of going into legal practice or working for a Parliament drafting legislation?

    That’s a low blow, Bruce. I came to you, wearing my ignorance on my sleeve. You took that sleeve, fist and all, and sodomised me with it. I feel violated. :)

  195. calli

    I’m surprised by the rumour? that the Sheik and Anna are an item. I thought the Sheik was gay.

    It’s a different kind of gay, Gab.

  196. hoppers

    Gab, #spindoctorsareus has worked a treat for me. Zero harassment since I signed up!

  197. Aristogeiton

    MsDolittle
    #1385515, posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm
    [...]
    Hah, noiss! You made me laugh, usually I have to read Ari’s comments through my fingers, too scary for me.

    Ms. D, I’m a contentious individual, I know that. Just promise me you’ll try and convince Anne that I’m not Aliice (or AussiePundit). After all, they probably have feelings too…

  198. Leo G

    The ocean heating up is a symptom of AGW, not a cause.” – Stephan

    “Why ocean heat can’t drive climate change, only chase it:
    The notion that the ocean is causing global warming is ruled out by the observation that the ocean is warming (Levitus 2005). Internal climate changes such as El Nino and thermohaline variability stem from transfers of heat such as from the ocean to the atmosphere. If the ocean was feeding atmospheric warming, the oceans would be cooling.” – Skeptical Science

    Skeptical Science deceitfully thereby claims, for instance, that changes in solar irradiance at the ocean surface cannot both increase ocean temperature and consequentially increase heat transfer from ocean to atmosphere.

  199. MsDolittle

    Ari, the coven met for lunch last week and that task is beyond my powers. Once she points the bone, there is no going back. Genetic testing would have to be done by a reputable lab.

  200. Fisky

    @vanbadham @rspackman What a delightful day! A victory for western civilization, the worst defeat for the Left since 1989. @jc6543

  201. Eyrie

    Jesus wept. Abbott on 7:30 report. He’s letting that stupid pommy bitch run circles round him.
    He let her conflate a doctor’s visit with the saving from no carbon tax, as if everyone visits the doctor very week.
    It got worse from there.

  202. Aristogeiton

    Ms D, how about this:

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2013/12/27/bitcoin-and-crime/

    Being some rather extreme anti-Bitcoin sentiment because Aliice says (and I believe her) that her son died from drugs purchased from Silk Road.

    And this:

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/01/14/the-politics-of-drug-use/

    Being one of my frequent anti-prohibitionist rants on the ‘Cat.

    I support the legalisation of all drugs, despite the fact that my drug-taking days are well behind me.

  203. cohenite

    Jesus wept. Abbott on 7:30 report. He’s letting that stupid pommy bitch run circles round him.
    He let her conflate a doctor’s visit with the saving from no carbon tax, as if everyone visits the doctor very week.
    It got worse from there.

    It is terrible; this guy is natural warrior but has been neutered.

  204. Aristogeiton

    cohenite, the guy was always this weak. We just hoped he would grow out of it. WRONG!

  205. Tom

    #1385392, posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:13 pm
    Epic scientific fraud

    Thanks, Dot. I’d not seen that link before.

  206. Tom

    Jesus wept. Abbott on 7:30 report. He’s letting that stupid pommy bitch run circles round him.
    He let her conflate a doctor’s visit with the saving from no carbon tax, as if everyone visits the doctor very week.
    It got worse from there.

    One Greenfilth gotcha after another, Eyrie. When the transcript comes up, I’ll list the questions.

    The ABC is a political organisation, which has a far left agenda that we’re paying for.

    Rabz Doctrine Now!

  207. Aristogeiton

    Fuck Rabz. Fisk Doctrine, now! Those who are enemies of freedom, will have their freedoms taken from them with extreme prejudice!

  208. Grigory M

    as if everyone visits the doctor very week

    That seemed to be the prevailing view among many here on the Cat when the co-payment was first being discussed. Certainly so insofar as it related to GP visits by the less affluent, and especially the elderly – more of a social occasion was the almost unanimous meme du jour.

  209. Aristogeiton

    No offence Rabz. Your doctrine still holds.

  210. iamok

    More than happy to have supported the IPA in their campaign to support all of Australia in this, rather than let self interest continue to pollute our clean air.

  211. jupes

    One Greenfilth gotcha after another, Eyrie.

    Why on Earth do LNP politicians subject themselves to it?

    If they really feel the need, they should go in hard and give it right back to the cloth-eared bint. But they don’t so why bother?

  212. Megan

    Why on Earth do LNP politicians subject themselves to it?

    I asked precisely that question during one of the gotchas. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Same with the rude and aggressive attitude. I thought the previous incumbent was appalling but her replacement hits new depths.

  213. wreckage

    Because the middle voter and the swing voter see him copping bullshit and don’t like it.

    I hope.

  214. Eyrie

    So MV , I figure Mathias’s squeeze is well connected in Perth society?

  215. Tom

    I asked precisely that question during one of the gotchas. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Same with the rude and aggressive attitude. I thought the previous incumbent was appalling but her replacement hits new depths.

    The LNP still think they’re the lazy ruling class snobs they were in the 1970s or even the 1970s. The intellectual arguments for defending Western civilisation are compelling, but these cretins think they can just dogwhistle it to the electorate through a hail of Alinskyist mortar fire from the leftist media (which is now 80% of the media). And idiots like Senator James McGrath keep standing up and lying about how they’re going to achieve smaller government when the LNP establishment will never allow it because it’s bad for the socialist elite.

  216. The other would be for the government to say that by 2060 there can be no energy production through coal fired plants.

    First you have to officially, specifically remove the barriers to nuclear (or anything else proved safe and useful) and put the Greens firmly in their box. Otherwise the filth will slime all over the place and all we will have left is solar, wind and a few months of tidal here and there before the sea batters the shit out of them.

  217. Peter from SA

    And idiots like Senator James McGrath keep standing up and lying about how they’re going to achieve smaller government when the LNP establishment will never allow it because it’s bad for the socialist elite.

    Yes seems like this is the cookie-cutter LNP First Speach … but all the good intentions get lost in the weirdo-bureaucracy of Canberra soon after.

  218. I’m surprised by the rumour? that the Sheik and Anna are an item. I thought the Sheik was gay.

    There are alpha males, beta males, etc. etc. There are not enough letters in the Greek alphabet to describe the Sheik and people like him (e.g. the Obamacare ad Pyjama Dude). Russian, I believe, has thirty-three letters – it may be adequate.

  219. H B Bear

    It is terrible; this guy is natural warrior but has been neutered.

    Credlin is always just off the set with an Abbott voodoo doll. If he looks like going off reservation she gives them a twist.

  220. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Must take a minute to register here for posterity my cheer at the axing of the air tax.
    Hooray!

    Done.

  221. .

    Stephan has cut and run again.

    The temps were adjusted up by 2.3 degrees. What is the justification for this?

  222. Aristogeiton

    Dot, like all trolls he ignores contrary evidence and seeks to change the subject. Wait for it…

  223. brc

    I’d like to celebrate but I fear this is a minor victory against a tide of special interest groups who sniff a big revenue opportunity, and will never stop. When they smash all the apparatus Howard introduced to track emissions and start talking about chopping the RET, then send the receptionist to the next IPCC junket, maybe I will believe. I can’t shake the feeling Abbott only did it because it was a way to beat Gillard and Rudd, not because it was a bad idea. I bet he’d love to have some ETS revenue to throw at welfare.

  224. entropy

    Stephan has cut and run again.

    The temps were adjusted up by 2.3 degrees. What is the justification for this?

    Because those clowns back in the day obviously read it wrong. Probably drunk, being Darwin. So their betters meddled fixed it for them.

  225. Infidel Tiger

    Eternal vigilance BRC. Make no mistake that Abbott will betray us once more before the cock crows thrice.

    He is not to be trusted. None of them are.

  226. wreckage

    Carbon tax gone, mining tax going. Ah, the good life.

  227. entropy

    wreckage, don’t you dare settle for a lesser life. We were meant for more than this.

  228. Aristogeiton

    IT, but will Abbott feel the shame:

    “And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.”
    (Mt. 26:75, KJV)

  229. MartinG

    I just watched Abbott on the 7.30 report. She walked all over him. I was answering the questions to myself and easily fended them off except the one’s about his PPL levy. I know it’s easy from a comfy chair but none the less Abbott was so fucking bad I felt embarrassed. He was like a tutting stuttering string puppet.

    I suppose it’s hard selling a bucket shit to the public and calling it a budget that will fix the mess Labor left behind.

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