Guest Post: B.P. Terpstra – Gay domestic violence: the hatred that dare not speak its name

I’m halfway through The Talented Miss Highsmith: The Secret Life and Serious Art of Patricia Highsmith by Joan Schenkar – a disturbing read.

For the record, I’m a big fan of Pat’s psychological thrillers, but her personal life was the ultimate psychological thriller.

In one disturbing passage, for example, Pat picks a fight with some “late girl callers” and comes off second best with a chest so thoroughly bruised she needs an X-ray.

Sadly, Highsmith seemed to be attracted to toxic relationships. Indeed, many of her lesbian relationships looked like ready-to-go explosives.

But what’s changed in 2014?

To be clear, in America’s polite upper-middleclass circles, gay domestic violence is the hatred that dare not speak its name. Ditto “progressive” Australia.

For the media class, at least, would prefer to talk about white picket fences, rainbow flags and same-sex wedding cakes.

The message: Think pretty things.

Still, even MSNBC can’t wish away ugliness. As one underreported UCLA study found:

Although reported incidences of intimate partner violence, or IPV, are widespread, especially among women and certain ethnic groups, reported IPV was surprisingly high among lesbians, gays and bisexuals in California, who are almost twice as likely to experience violence as heterosexual adults, researchers said.

Specifically, 27.9 percent of all lesbian or gay adults reported experiencing IPV in their adult lives. The rate of reported IPV is even higher among bisexual adults, at 40.6 percent. In contrast, only 16.7 percent of heterosexual adults reported incidences of IPV.

Yes, even in “progressive” California.

The toxicity of violent GLBT relationships can’t be ignored. As the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey also found, bisexual women are far more likely to be victimized through stalking than their heterosexual sisters too – more than double the rate, in fact.

So leaving an abusive partner is not always the solution.

Here in Australia too, I’ve observed the scars of victims of same-sex IPV and they look just as deep, just as confronting.

In one small but important study of 390 Victorian GLBT respondents, a significant minority claimed that they were abused by their partner.

Interestingly, lesbians were more likely than gay men to report such abuse (41% vs 29%).

Moreover, even when campaigning journalists recognise domestic violence in the “GLBT community”, an abuse-excuse is often just around the corner.

As one tired argument goes: If only communities were more accepting, abuse victims would be more likely to seek help. Maybe in some cases. But given that GLBT IPV is so widespread in relatively “progressive” liberal nations that’s not my central concern.

Moreover, journalists also have a duty to highlight GLBT suicides, but I believe it’s inexcusable to downplay the many ways in which domestic violence can contribute to mental health issues and even GLBT deaths.

Indeed, violent homosexuals and marriage-centric activists in denial are very much part of the IPV problem, not the solution.

In another memorable Highsmith story, the novelist recommended suicide to hurting women. As one written response concerning her friend’s suicidal roommate put it: “Let her jump!”

But don’t expect our watchdog media to take up the cause. After all, physical and emotional female-on-female violence is problematic for campaigning journalists bent on portraying domestic violence as a symptom of patriarchy.

Even today, journalists aren’t ready to acknowledge that the greatest threats facing GLBT folks aren’t conservative commentators, religious leaders with politically-incorrect views on sexuality, or even Chick-fil-A family restaurant menus.

The real threats: domestic violence and community silence.

As Highsmith’s psychological thrillers and chaotic life taught us, sometimes our greatest threats are living with us.

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136 Responses to Guest Post: B.P. Terpstra – Gay domestic violence: the hatred that dare not speak its name

  1. boy on a bike

    Not to worry – gay marriage will solve the problem.
    /sarc

  2. stackja

    The real threats: domestic violence and community silence.

    MSM at least is silent but threat needs attention. First an informed public then politicians get the courage to act.

  3. Notafan

    Reminded me of a sweet guy I used to work with, came to work with a battered face, I’ve seen those on hetero colleagues as well. Over tea and sympathy he showed me a stab wound in his palm. I strongly suggested medical treatment and a new partner.
    He did manage to move on but I wasn’t aware of community issues.

  4. Ivan Denisovich

    Even today, journalists aren’t ready to acknowledge that the greatest threats facing GLBT folks aren’t conservative commentators, religious leaders with politically-incorrect views on sexuality, or even Chick-fil-A family restaurant menus.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/28/uncomfortable-truth-behind-matthew-shepards-death/

  5. Mayan

    There’s an old joke that goes something like: What’s the difference between a gay second date and lesbian second date? A lesbian second date involves bring a U-Haul and a dog. Gay men don’t have second dates.

    There is some truth to it, and the truth involves broader truths about men and women. Another broader truth about women is that we tend to hold grudges for longer and are more prone to social violence, of which stalking is a form.

    Interestingly, where SSM has been adopted into civil law, it has emerged that lesbians divorce at a greater rate than gay men.

    Having had some peripheral exposure to the queer community, there are some programmes out there concerning same sex domestic violence, but discussion of it involves a circle the wagons mentality with respect to attention from outside the community. I can understand the reticence to an extent, but now days it reflects paranoia more than fear of definite consequences. In short, some people need to take a cement pill then learn to speak honestly.

    As for the link to suicide, I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the lack of tolerance to that phenomenon. It’s a complicated picture.

    I do think that lumping transsexuals and intersex people (I can tick both boxes) in with the queers and the crossdressers and drag queens is decidely unhelpful, and to the extent that we’ve been forcibly adopted and misrepresented by the numerically greater queers is a prime example of violence in that sphere.

  6. srr

    mmm…just posted this on the OT, but it obviously belongs here.

    There is so much hysterically, hypocritically wrong with this long, propaganda piece in The Age, that it really deserves it’s own, ball tearing, thread.

    It’s front page headline is -

    POLITICAL PANDERING TO THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/political-parties-walk-a-fine-line-pandering-to-the-views-of-the-religious-right-20140718-zuec8.html

  7. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Violence is abhorrent in any relationship. It is particularly bad when a stronger person uses brute strength (or grabbing a weapon) to overcome a weaker person; but any person can become violent if steamed up enough. Violent behaviour often stems from anger and distress, with outward anger often being a sign of inward turmoil – turning on others rather than facing the distress within oneself.

    Kindliness between all people is the only remedy. I think Jesus understood that, which is why the Christian message was, and is, so compelling.

  8. boy on a bike

    hang on – does this mean that a certain amount of gay bashing is gay-gay bashing?

  9. C.L.

    Although reported incidences of intimate partner violence, or IPV, are widespread, especially among women and certain ethnic groups, reported IPV was surprisingly high among lesbians, gays and bisexuals in California, who are almost twice as likely to experience violence as heterosexual adults, researchers said.

    It’s not surprising at all.

  10. wreckage

    Culturally, most guys are raised with “hitting girls” as a huge cultural taboo. Girls less so.

    So maybe this is what you get when you strip out that sexist and patronising traditional rule.

    If you have a look at the stats for child-abuse, gay male couples actually are better than average, lesbian couples much, much worse. I have no idea why this would be, but it’s in the numbers.

  11. tomix

    Was told by a detective in Qld in 1986 that 1 in 3 murders in Brisbane involved “one poofter murdering another poofter”. You won’t read about that in the Sunday Mail.

    Only slightly less disturbingly, Dusty Springfield also had a violent private life:
    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Secret+lesbian+marriage+that+destroyed+Dusty%3B+Star+landed+in+hospital…-a065005189

  12. tomix

    If you have a look at the stats for child-abuse, gay male couples actually are better than average, lesbian couples much, much worse. I have no idea why this would be, but it’s in the numbers.

    A guess. 1. Lesbians hate children. Sadly, that doesn’t seem to stop them having children.

    2. Gays may have fewer money worries, always a problem in relationships.

  13. Mayan

    tomix, that comports with the data that fathers are least likely to harm their kids, followed by mothers, while step fathers are the most likely to harm their kids.

  14. Infidel Tiger

    If you have a look at the stats for child-abuse, gay male couples actually are better than average, lesbian couples much, much worse. I have no idea why this would be, but it’s in the numbers.

    It’s a simple truth that females need males in their lives to temper their evil ways.

    It’s not their fault. Science made them that way.

  15. C.L.

    Lesbians have notoriously awful ‘sex’ lives apparently.

    Lesbian “dead bed” it’s called (hat tip, Yobbo).

    Something seems to be missing for them, I guess.

    Can’t imagine what that could be.

  16. Shy Ted

    Do they hit each other with their handbags? I feel awful now cos this was a favourite childhood line, “Go on. Hit him with your handbag.”

  17. Aristogeiton

    C.L.
    #1387985, posted on July 19, 2014 at 8:46 pm
    [...]
    Something seems to be missing for them, I guess.

    Can’t imagine what that could be.

    It’s your massive cock, mate. Those lezzos just need some of that and they’ll be cured. You’re such a stud.

  18. Clam Chowdah

    Lesbian “dead bed” it’s called (hat tip, Yobbo).

    No, that was me. Lesbian bed death.

  19. Fisky

    If you have a look at the stats for child-abuse, gay male couples actually are better than average, lesbian couples much, much worse. I have no idea why this would be, but it’s in the numbers.

    Same reason why single mother-led households have appalling rates of violence. Women find it hard to project authority without coming to blows.

  20. nerblnob

    I do think that lumping transsexuals and intersex people (I can tick both boxes) in with the queers and the crossdressers and drag queens is decidely unhelpful, and to the extent that we’ve been forcibly adopted and misrepresented by the numerically greater queers is a prime example of violence in that sphere.

    That doesn’t make sense, unless there’s been a typo.

    Are you really saying that misrepresentation is “violence” ? If so, it shouldn’t surprise you if you’re dismissed as hysterical.

  21. egg_

    No surprises that infanticide is predominantly by mothers, but the odd stat is that it is apparently predominantly (10:1) to male infants.

  22. egg_

    that comports with the data that fathers are least likely to harm their kids

    Why does this not get greater publicity?

  23. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388054, posted on July 19, 2014 at 9:36 pm
    No surprises that infanticide is predominantly by mothers, but the odd stat is that it is apparently predominantly (10:1) to male infants.

    The “stat’ is odd because you made it up.

  24. egg_

    The “stat’ is odd because you made it up.

    Is every other stat here made up, m’ learned friend?

  25. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388067, posted on July 19, 2014 at 9:44 pm
    The “stat’ is odd because you made it up.

    Is every other stat here made up, m’ learned friend?

    No, it’s bullshit on stilts. Give me a source for this nonsense, particularly where sex-selective infanticide is its most common mode, or piss off.

  26. Snap. Just reading about this on Friday – you are a mind-reader.

    I read some terrible first-person accounts of sexual assault and domestic violence among lesbian women, from within the very active political scene/community itself, which were very open and honest.

    They too grappled with this very issue – ‘How can I report this? Won’t it stigmatise the community further?’

    The accounts were really tragic. Some of these women had identified as lesbian precisely because they’d already faced heterosexual sexual assault/interference as children and young persons, and then they found themselves on the receiving end of the same treatment from the very people they’d turned to.

  27. egg_

    or piss off.

    The blogmaster speaks?
    Contempt of court?

  28. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388086, posted on July 19, 2014 at 9:55 pm
    or piss off.

    The blogmaster speaks?
    Contempt of court?

    Right. So you did just make this up, and can’t provide any reference to support it. Good to know. You don’t actually have to leave; you can continue to post from the corner in shame.

  29. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    lesbian bed death

    Husbands have ways of keeping sex on a wife’s mind. They give you little hugs and snuggles around the house and leave you in no doubt about how many times in the past few hours they have had a little thought about sex. That’s because they are chock full of testosterone. Men are like that.

    Women are different. We can initiate things and enjoy being woo’d with nice words and such. We like to feel that we can make men want us. Preening behaviour. And the urge to join forces with a man in a very genital manner can be very strong in us, given the right circumstances. Do not doubt that.

    Adult women alone in institutions tend to get snappy and short-tempered with each other, and highly competitive in same-sex love-friendships, whereas young girls in school groups are known for bitchiness with each other, in tight-knit groups that nevertheless mean everything to them. Menstrual cycles of women and girls living together tend to align.

    Sex differences are in every cell of our respective male and female bodies. Culture adds its load, but probably less than most people in today’s ‘genderless’ world think.

    Just my considered opinion, of course, from experience and from reading some socio-biology and ethology. When sexual relations are not heterosexual, then maybe something really is missing for women; but I doubt if it’s anything as simple as some men like to suggest.

  30. egg_

    Right. So you did just make this up, and can’t provide any reference to support it. Good to know. You don’t actually have to leave; you can continue to post from the corner in shame.

    Oh, the shame.

  31. Aristogeiton

    Great post Lizzie. Men don’t only think about sex, however. Sometimes we ruminate on violence and think about food…

  32. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388099, posted on July 19, 2014 at 10:03 pm
    [...]
    Oh, the shame.

    The pain will pass, egg. JC has operators standing by if it all becomes too much.

  33. Tintarella di Luna

    Great post Lizzie. Men don’t only think about sex, however. Sometimes we ruminate on violence and think about food…

    Yeah Lizzie great comment, eloquent as always – thank goodness food occupies the minds of the men in our household. Gives me a raison d’etre

  34. egg_

    JC has operators standing by if it all becomes too much.

    On another weekend bender?

  35. Mayan

    nerblnob, just using the language the queer activists use to describe the way they have forcibly taken over the representation of people about whom they know nothing and share little. Although, thinking about it more broadly, it is a form of social violence, which can be quite real. On the other hand, perhaps we need a word other than violence to describe these things where physical battery isn’t involved.

    For the most part, I have something like contempt for queer activists and their unremittingly leftist agenda and the way they use social violence (hey, since I’ve already used the term) against queers and others with whom they disagree.

  36. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388108, posted on July 19, 2014 at 10:09 pm
    JC has operators standing by if it all becomes too much.

    On another weekend bender?

    Still waiting for your citation, champion…

  37. C.L.

    If you have a look at the stats for child-abuse, gay male couples actually are better than average …

    Comparing the globe’s heterosexual fathers and about 8 homosexual ‘couples’ in the Western world with highly expensive adopted – or IVFed-via-prostitution children – is self-evidently ridiculous.

    So we can safely ignore this ‘stat.’

  38. C.L.

    No, that was me. Lesbian bed death.

    Apologies, Clam.

  39. egg_

    Still waiting for your citation, champion…

    It’s in the archives, newbie – hint: Dot told me orff for referring to a ‘crank’ site (that quoted a genuine UK? research site).
    Now – “piss off’”!

  40. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    the way they use social violence (hey, since I’ve already used the term) against queers and others with whom they disagree

    Splitters, eh? No unity in ‘difference’, just more and more types of difference.
    Perhaps because feelings are so fraught in this whole arena of ‘difference’ then tensions spill over into violence? Maybe lesbian women who take on masculine characteristics take on violence too?

    It’s interesting that gay men are the least violent with each other. Says something about some basic and simple needs being answered in like fashion within gay male relationships, and no-one’s unhappy sexually in sheer frustration terms (although possibly unhappy about other elements of being gay). A gay man once said to me that the reason many men are ‘gay’ is because sex is so easy to obtain, with the relationships themselves being highly sexual, and often non-exclusive and emotionally undemanding.

    Whatever, Philippa’s point is important: people suffering from relationship violence of any sort need help to sort their way through the emotional morass that they have landed in.

  41. C.L.

    It’s your massive cock, mate. Those lezzos just need some of that and they’ll be cured. You’re such a stud.

    If you say so.

  42. Maybe lesbian women who take on masculine characteristics take on violence too?

    A myth, according to the political community. They claim this kind of stereotyping masks real violence by non-butch types.

    It’s interesting that gay men are the least violent with each other.

    Fisting? The flourishing leather scene? S & M for all comers? Multiple sex partners outside of the ‘relationship’? Really?

    I suppose if you have lots of other outlets, you’re less likely to hit your gay male partner at home …

  43. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388128, posted on July 19, 2014 at 10:26 pm
    Still waiting for your citation, champion…

    It’s in the archives, newbie – hint: Dot told me orff for referring to a ‘crank’ site (that quoted a genuine UK? research site).
    Now – “piss off’”!

    I’ll wait. Take your time idiot.

  44. Adult women alone in institutions tend to get snappy and short-tempered with each other, and highly competitive in same-sex love-friendships, whereas young girls in school groups are known for bitchiness with each other, in tight-knit groups that nevertheless mean everything to them. Menstrual cycles of women and girls living together tend to align.

    Mmmmm. Kind of. As someone who’s spent most of her life living with other women, but who has also lived with males, I’d say it’s same-same in terms of snapping and short temper. Competition and bitchiness also exist in same-sex male groups, to a fabulous degree.

    And the periods thing I have also found to be a bit of a myth, although I know there are studies that claim to confirm it. It doesn’t always happen, even if you share a living place for years.

  45. harrys on the boat

    re Lesbian Dead Bed. I’ve said it before and ill say it again – lesbians: hate men, love cock.

  46. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    thank goodness food occupies the minds of the men in our household. Gives me a raison d’etre

    hahaha Tinta. Perhaps in our household sex is a substitute for food – with my cooking to content with, that is! And if I wandered around our house in an outfit such as is under your beautiful white coat, I would get chilly pretty fast these cold nights, because that coat would be off me in five seconds flat. :)

  47. Paul

    It’s your massive cock, mate. Those lezzos just need some of that and they’ll be cured. You’re such a stud.

    If you say so.

    Your Avatar does seem to have a particularly big trunk up front, C. L.

  48. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    although I know there are studies that claim to confirm it

    I’ve come across menstrual aligning with women living in group households. I suspect though that it is very variable. Happens sometimes, then stops, sometimes never happens. I don’t know if anyone has actually done a proper probability series over the instances, let alone sought for causes.

    Philippa, possibly you live in group households where there are some very well-adjusted and happy women; this could make a big difference to outcomes compared to studies made in prisons, hospitals and boarding schools. These things are so complex and multi-factorial anyway, so idle speculation is all that we are left with, at the end of the day.

  49. George Brandis thanks for NOTHING

    Mayan – interesting, thanks for opening up and sharing.

  50. Aristogeiton

    Yeah, thanks Mayan.

  51. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    It’s interesting that gay men are the least violent with each other.

    Fisting? The flourishing leather scene? S & M for all comers? Multiple sex partners outside of the ‘relationship’? Really?

    I was going on the claim made up-thread about gay male non-violence relative to lesbians’ violence.

    I know people will do the most extraordinary things to other people’s bodies, and their own, in the name of sexual gratification. If it’s consensual, then it is not violence. It is perhaps just a bad idea and a worrying culture to be part of and to be encouraged into.

    What constitutes consent in such a culture would of course be worth examining in more detail.

    ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ (sorry Dot, sorry for mentioning it again) comes to mind in this regard.

  52. Aristogeiton

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
    #1388176, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:07 pm
    [...]
    ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ (sorry Dot, sorry for mentioning it again) comes to mind in this regard.

    Terrible:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K1RcKJVbHA

  53. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Just read Philippa’s links.

    It is interesting that attention is only now being focussed on both male and female partners in violent relationships, a necessary outcome when same-sex couples are the topic.

    Many heterosexual men in relationships feel angry because they cannot get Courts to accept that their wives can be violent towards them too.

    It is good that gay cultures are drawing attention to realities here which may help straight men.

  54. egg_

    I’ll wait. Take your time idiot.

    Too retarded/pissed to find it yourself, legaltard?

  55. egg_

    lesbians: hate men, love cock.

    Even minnows like Aristo?

  56. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388183, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:20 pm
    I’ll wait. Take your time idiot.

    Too retarded/pissed to find it yourself, legaltard?

    ei qui affirmat non ei qui negat incumbit probatio.

  57. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388186, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:22 pm
    lesbians: hate men, love cock.

    Even minnows like Aristo?

    Lol. Way off the mark mate.

  58. egg_

    ei qui affirmat non ei qui negat incumbit probatio.

    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

  59. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388191, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:27 pm
    ei qui affirmat non ei qui negat incumbit probatio.

    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

    Let’s go back to your original contention:

    egg_
    #1388054, posted on July 19, 2014 at 9:36 pm
    No surprises that infanticide is predominantly by mothers, but the odd stat is that it is apparently predominantly (10:1) to male infants.

    Not much chop at logic, are we?

  60. Mayan

    It is good that gay cultures are drawing attention to realities here which may help straight men.

    What Lizzie wrote points to social/interpersonal violence being a form of violence.

    Someone (say a woman) in a relationship could easily learn which buttons to press to provoke a reaction from her partner. Bruises and blood are evidence, but unless recorded or overheard by a great many, the social/interpersonal violence that produced the classically violent response goes unnoticed and unpunished.

    There are plenty of people out there who are very adept at pushing those buttons, and the pain they cause is just as real as that induced by any punch.

    In some ways, it’s worse, because it sets up a scheme of false testimoney against the provoked party.

    Perhaps there is good reason why the Icelanders of old used to hate thieves more than other criminals: if you’re going to act badly, own that bad action publicly.

  61. egg_

    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

    C’mon big guy…

  62. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    hahahahahaha Aristogeiton.
    Not terrible; hilarious. No-one ever said it was a literary piece.
    Anyway, Sunshine, you have to Read The Whole Thing.
    Which is way beyond the call of duty for most men, who find it thoroughly laughable.
    As do smart and intellectual and literary women (who read it secretly in bed at night instead).
    Some fifty million women have bought the book and love its heroine and the hero’s metamorphosis.
    They buy the sexual fantasy of the powerful and dominant male and a little bit of female submission.

    Now that is a plotline that would have the evolutionary ethologists twisting their knickers.

  63. wreckage

    Mayan; thanks for the commentary; I’ve always been a bit confused as to how gender/sex assignment at the biological level related to the broader label “LGBTI” or “LGBT” or “LGBTQI” etc, becoming a singular entity. It may be there is a relationship, but it seems that people with various hormonal, chromosomal, etc., conditions were just kind of dumped in a label/box that had previously been concerned only with sexual orientation.

  64. Aristogeiton

    egg_
    #1388198, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:30 pm
    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

    C’mon big guy…

    Your new contention makes no sense:

    filicide

    (ˈfɪlɪsaɪd)

    [f. L. fīli-us, fīlia son, daughter + -cide: see -cide 1.]

    One who kills a son or daughter; a slayer of his own child.

    What I want to bet is that your proposed 10:1 ratio of male:female filicide is bullshit.

  65. Aristogeiton

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
    #1388201, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:32 pm
    [...]
    They buy the sexual fantasy of the powerful and dominant male and a little bit of female submission.

    It’s pretty tame stuff (compared with actual BDSM), but I suppose that it’s a good thing that they aren’t lusting after beta males, Lizzie.

  66. Aristogeiton

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
    #1388201, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:32 pm
    [...]
    Anyway, Sunshine, you have to Read The Whole Thing.

    I just can’t, Lizzie. Sorry.

  67. wreckage

    Summary:

    “Children under the age of 5 in the United States are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else. Contrary to popular mythology, they are rarely killed by a sex-crazed stranger. FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent. Crime statistics further reveal that of the children under 5 killed from 1976 to 1999, 30 percent were murdered by their mothers while 31 percent were killed by their fathers. And while the strangers, acquaintances, and other family members who kill children skew heavily toward males (as does the entire class of murderers), children are as likely to be murdered by their fathers as by their mothers.”

  68. Aristogeiton

    Seems likely, wreckage. What egg originally claimed, however, was that parental murder (by women?; it’s unclear) was 10:1 male:female infants. That’s the contention that I said was bullshit.

  69. wreckage

    He also said infanticide is predominantly by mothers. Maybe he meant neonaticide?

  70. egg was referring to infanticide though, so we need to narrow down the figures above from children under 5 to children under 1.

  71. Mayan

    Exactly, wreckage: Thanks.

    The way I understand it is: intersex is where there is some obvious physical irregularity at birth or conditions such as congential andrenal hyperplasia (CAS) or androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) which are often only apparent later; and transsexuality, which emerges early, and seems to be a neurological (brain) based intersex condition which results in someone essentially having a brain at odds with their anatomy. Sometimes, surgeons (in their utterly criminal ineptitude) decide (yes, still, in the cases where they don’t counsel the parents to abort) operate on someone who is intersex and, given the 50-50 odds of their ‘success’, they often produce someone who is transsexual (yay me: surgery slipped past bamboozled parents, all without my consent, or even their informed consent!).

    One’s choice of bedmate (if any) is something else again. Quite why the leftists have a problem with that distinction is a mystery to me. Maybe part of their strength in numbers as a key to violent revolution thinking, or something else that is a complete mystery to me.

    Although, from my observations, the gays and lesbians don’t have much time for the bisexuals, that rendering even the GLB grouping a lie. It’s all about numbers, which is more important to leftists than right or wrong. Like I said, a mystery to me … like why we don’t teach up to second year undergraduate maths in schools (but that’s another rant).

  72. Aristogeiton

    dover_beach
    #1388220, posted on July 19, 2014 at 11:53 pm
    egg was referring to infanticide though, so we need to narrow down the figures above from children under 5 to children under 1.

    Whatever way you cut egg’s figures, they are bullshit. In fact, the majority of infanticide is of girls in less enlightened cultures.

  73. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Anyway, Sunshine, you have to Read The Whole Thing.

    I just can’t, Lizzie. Sorry.

    Yep. Told you.
    Men just don’t have the right head-space for it.
    Some women have read it over and over.
    Once was quite enough for me, I must admit.
    It came strongly recommended by my sister.
    She rarely reads a book, unless its on car maintenance.
    So it must have struck a female chord there somewhere.

  74. Mayan

    When I think about maths, I touch myself.

  75. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    It’s pretty tame stuff (compared with actual BDSM)

    Well, thank goodness for that. It wouldn’t be popular otherwise.
    Just a little bit of what you fancy. With marriage and babies as the outcome.

  76. Aristogeiton

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
    #1388243, posted on July 20, 2014 at 12:08 am
    [,,,]
    Well, thank goodness for that. It wouldn’t be popular otherwise.
    Just a little bit of what you fancy. With marriage and babies as the outcome.

    ;) As I said above, better a bit of light fantasy BDSM than the perpetuation of the myth that beta males (formerly known as SNAGs) are sexually desirable.

  77. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    “Gay domestic violence”

    Oh? Never given it much thought – or any thought at all. I daresay if I have read anything about it I would have given it the “Oh for Pete’s sake, just go away” treatment.

    I’ll warrant it has now reached vital national importance status because yet another minority sectional interest has twigged to the fact that gummints each have a big chest full of money and a determination to hand it out to just about anyone other than those who were forced to donate it.

    It’s a bit amusing really. During the latest promo for the “greatest moral, economic and social challenge of our time” – the bizarre notion of blokes marrying blokes – I recall it was contended they were at one with themselves, each other and the world and therefore shovel ready to become “parents”. Now I see they are belting each other up – or 29% of 390 of ‘em in Victoria are.

    “I do think that lumping transsexuals and intersex people (I can tick both boxes) in with the queers and the crossdressers and drag queens is decidely unhelpful”

    Struth! How many separate clubs are there? Do they each have an International Day of the (insert chosen obsession) an annual parade and a Federal minister with a phalanx of useless public servants to babysit them?

  78. Clam Chowdah

    Lol. Way off the mark mate.

    Sounds like a sore point.

  79. Aristogeiton

    Clam Chowdah
    #1388269, posted on July 20, 2014 at 12:41 am
    Lol. Way off the mark mate.

    Sounds like a sore point.

    No mate. Try another avenue. I have plenty of weak points.

  80. Yohan

    My dad was a police officer and attended many domestic violence incidents. He told me (and it really surprised me), that you don’t even know what domestic violence is until you have witnessed gay men splitting up.

  81. Clam Chowdah

    No mate. Try another avenue. I have plenty of weak points.

    It was the best pun I could think of at the time, don’t take it seriously.

    I do find it amusing that the earlier joke about you having a small willy provoked a defence. It’s almost as funny as Yobbo threatening to fight someone on here a year or two ago because, honestly, he’s big and rough and tough and doesn’t need to post that fact here, nossir.

  82. Aristogeiton

    Clam Chowdah
    #1388333, posted on July 20, 2014 at 2:05 am
    [...]
    I do find it amusing that the earlier joke about you having a small willy provoked a defence.

    Good for you. Amuse yourself. Truth be told, I didn’t realise that was the implication; but keep thinking about my dick if you like.

  83. Clam Chowdah

    FFS, you clowns are the one making dick references in this thread. I make one pun about it and it becomes MY responsibility. Stop being a douche Aristo, you whiney twat. Normally I enjoy your lists but you have a tendency to be a queen at times.

  84. Clam Chowdah

    posts, lists, whatever

  85. Aristogeiton

    Lol. As I said mate. You’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s an oak by the way faggot.

  86. Clam Chowdah

    Lol. As I said mate. You’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s an oak by the way faggot.

    Wait, are you now making defensive comments about your dick size again?

    How is this my problem, Freud-boy?

  87. Aristogeiton

    Seriously. How much time and energy are you going to devote to fantasies about my cock? It’s sick mate.

  88. Clam Chowdah

    Still discussing your favourite subject, matey?

  89. Aristogeiton

    Clam Chowdah
    #1388352, posted on July 20, 2014 at 2:35 am
    Still discussing your favourite subject, matey?

    Well it’s a big subject. One that seems to dominate your thought process.

  90. Clam Chowdah

    That’s the spirit! Keep with the theme and pretend it’s someone else who started it!

    Gold!

  91. Aristogeiton

    Has somebody else been posting under your name, Abu…I mean “Clam”.

  92. Clam Chowdah

    No, has someone been posting under yours?

  93. tomix

    You don’t see the phrase “latent homosexual” any more. Or mention of the links between homosexuality and alcoholism. Or the predisposition of homosexuals to arson.

    Leaving aside AIDS and loathsome diseases of the arse, are lesbians more prone to breast cancer?
    Plenty of entertainment industry lesbians seem to have had it, and the subject is on billboards everywhere.

  94. egg_

    Give me a source for this nonsense, particularly where sex-selective infanticide is its most common mode – Aggro.

    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

  95. Demosthenes

    Or the predisposition of homosexuals to arson.

    Hadn’t heard of that one. The only stat on arson I know is it’s a 90% male crime.

  96. cynical1

    When sexual relations are not heterosexual, then maybe something really is missing for women; but I doubt if it’s anything as simple as some men like to suggest.

    Protection.

    Women are designed to nuture the children and ensure the continuing family.

    Men are designed to protect women and no amount of feminism or PC bullshit about
    equality or female SAS troops will change that.

    And let’s be honest when it comes to certain jobs, men are more suited.

    Even if it’s not PC to say so…

  97. egg_

    From the legaltards (PDF)

    When a mother killed her own child, the offspring she killed was more likely to be a son than a daughter: 64% sons versus 36% daughters.

    I believe that P.T. d’Orban in the UK has found higher rates, from previous.

  98. .

    tomix
    #1388420, posted on July 20, 2014 at 5:29 am
    You don’t see the phrase “latent homosexual” any more. Or mention of the links between homosexuality and alcoholism. Or the predisposition of homosexuals to arson.

    Leaving aside AIDS and loathsome diseases of the arse, are lesbians more prone to breast cancer?
    Plenty of entertainment industry lesbians seem to have had it, and the subject is on billboards everywhere.

    You’re a freak, tomix. Don’t ever change.

  99. tomix

    These topics have disappeared for 30+ years. Google “arson psychiatry homosexuality”.
    Here’s one result:

    Profile of a Serial Arsonist

    AGE: 10-14 (26%), majority under 18 (51%) if adult, late 20s, never over 35 if adult, revenge or profit motive
    SEX: 9 out of 10 times (90%) a male; if female, revenge type
    RACE: 3 out of 4 times (75%) a white; black (20%) of time if first-timer; Native Americans 3rd largest group
    CLASS: majority from lower to working class; middle class if vandalism or excitement
    IQ: vast majority subnormal (70-90) with 22% in retarded range (below 70), rare genius
    FAMILY: absent or abusive father, history of emotional problems with family/mother; single (65%)
    SCHOOL: learning problems and usually held back a grade in school, normally in 10th grade; younger (grades 6-8) if vandalism; despite lack of formal education, may be of average to above average intelligence however
    PEERS: social misfit, interpersonal problems with opposite sex, appears physically and emotionally weak compared to peers; but often does manage to involve an accomplice in arson (20%)
    WORK: usually chooses subservient position and then resents it (both ambivalent and resentful toward authority-repressed); unemployed if vandal, excite, or profit; otherwise a laborer
    CRIMINAL HISTORY: numerous status offenses as juvenile, property crimes, almost all have arrest records
    DRUG/ALCOHOL: not usually a problem, but involvement with
    SEXUAL HISTORY: 25% report being homosexual or bisexual
    ………

    From: http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04a.htm

  100. Diogenes

    Wanna bet maternal filicide of males > 50%?

    This got me to do 10 minutes research … and found the following – I was unable to find a breakdown of mother->son filicide vs mother->daughter

    Depends on where you are talking about – worldwide its girls who get killed (boys more highly prized) In China and India one author calls industrial scale (ratio 125:100) (Filicide-Suicide: The Killing of Children in the Context of Separation … By Kieran O’Haga) –

    Then in New Developments in Parent-child Relations edited by Dorothy M. Devore in the west the numbers are virtually identical (p53 in google books) but does say over the 10 year period 90′s in NZ the ratio was 60% were girls – however the numbers were so low (ie only 16 girls killed) that it is not significant – interestingly in India the female infantacide is highest in the higher castes and the killing in quoted as being almost exclusively by paternal grandmother . Alos interesting as research quoted saying the Canadian rate had increased because of immigration from countries where it was regarded as situation normal.

    From a UK study

    Method

    All filicide and filicide-suicide cases in England and Wales (1997–2006) were drawn from a national index of homicide perpetrators. Data on people in contact with mental health services were obtained via a questionnaire from mental health teams. Additional clinical information was collected from psychiatric reports.

    Results
    6144 people were convicted of homicide, 297 were filicides, and 45 cases were filicide-suicides. 195 (66%) perpetrators were fathers. Mothers were more likely than fathers to have a history of mental disorder (66% v 27%) and symptoms at the time of the offence (53% v 23%), most often affective disorder. 17% of mothers had schizophrenia or other delusional disorders. Overall 8% had schizophrenia. 37% were mentally ill at the time of the offence. 20% had previously been in contact with mental health services, 12% within a year of the offence.

    Filicide: Mental Illness in Those Who Kill Their Children

  101. .

    These topics have disappeared for 30+ years

    Because they are bullshit, you muppet.

  102. Max

    We already have laws against violence. So why do we need “Domestic violence” laws? There are many options for people in danger to get to a safe place. Why the taxpayer has to further shell out for people who won’t remove themselves from a violent situation is beyond me. Unless the leftist endgame is to have CCTV in every house.

  103. tomix

    Maybe try reading the above link. 25% of arsonists report as male homosexuals {the real figure must be higher} versus the accepted rate of 3% in the wider community. Do these figures tell you something?

    Hint: It’s a subject avoided in the MSM for the last 30+ years.

  104. Diogenes

    egg
    I hadn’t seen your source, however given the very low numbers of filicide overall ie 4.8% of the total (if I read it correctly about 8,000 in total so roughly 400 overall) it would not have taken many more male victims to get the balance closer .

  105. .

    “The real figure must be higher”

    “The topic has disappeared for 30 years”

    Sure tomix. Believe whatever the hell you like.

  106. George Brandis thanks for NOTHING

    SEX: 9 out of 10 times (90%) a male; if female, revenge type

    From experience, I would have thought that you could classify 100% of women as ‘revenge type’.

    Mayan, great to hear from you. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on Maffs.

    Regarding the attitude of the left to ‘splitters’, they want as many as they can to support their causes, and they think of people not as individuals but as groups. As a result, people who objectively belong to the group but who choose not to participate, or who voice disagreement, are a threat to group cohesion and the worldview which posits homogenous groups with uniform demands of society, as well as weakening the justifications for claims to rights and social resources.

    This is one reason why trades unions are so big on ‘no ticket no start’ workplaces, and why they are so hostile to those who place themselves outside the group. This attitude has carried over to the Labor Party, with its demand for uniform voting in parliament, the unwarranted denigration of those who cross the floor, and the deep hatreds which exist between factions – since factions represent an undeniable split in the ‘group view’, and each faction seeks to win complete control and destroy other factions in order to move forward with its own view unopposed.

    Just listen to ChiCom propaganda, they love belting up ‘factionalists’ and ‘splittists’.

    All the above is pop psychology drawn from observation, nothing deeper or more informed I’m afraid.

  107. egg_

    This got me to do 10 minutes research … and found the following – I was unable to find a breakdown of mother->son filicide vs mother->daughter

    Unsurprising* – the issue of Gender is a hot sociopolitical potato – you’ll usually only find a male slant as the culprit of all woes.
    There are quite high stats – easily quoted – the more recent ones the highest – and lately, bravely done by women – indicating as high as 25% of kids not being those of their ‘dad’ (proven by blood type).
    Awaiting the aggroblogger’s outrageous outrage.

    *Not to mention Google search algorithms affected by past user searches.

  108. tomix

    Max- First there was an ongoing MSM campaign starting in the early 80s claiming that the police were powerless to protect women being bashed in the home by their male partners.

    Then came the legislation.

    A solicitor in Qld told me c.2001 that 70% of Qld police work involved Domestic Violence Orders [serving summons, breaches, paperwork Court appearances etc.]. It’s the cops bread and butter. And if there’s a root to be had out of it…..

  109. tomix

    George Brandis thanks for NOTHING :
    This attitude has carried over to the Labor Party, with its demand for uniform voting in parliament, the unwarranted denigration of those who cross the floor,

    It is warranted. Without strict voting discipline the ALP would have nothing to sell to the big end of town.

  110. tomix

    Violent people have violent relationships/ it takes two to tango.

    The cops, the Courts, and anyone with a brain, knows that…….. but, never stand in the way of a politician and a big bag of money and power.

  111. hammy

    Kindliness between all people is the only remedy. I think Jesus understood that, which is why the Christian message was, and is, so compelling.

    Yes, the kindness of burning heretics alive at the stake is a terrific example of Christian kindness, as was the solving of the “Jewish problem” in Germany in WWII, ably assisted by Pius XII.

  112. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    it seems that people with various hormonal, chromosomal, etc., conditions were just kind of dumped in a label/box

    Sadly, yes. Very brave of you to be punching your way out of it, Mayan, to become your own person rather than someone ‘claimed’ by the left. If you are fighting lefties, then there is a place for you on the Cat. It’s a rough-house where many different people gather together, but you can get used to that.

  113. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Go bag your head, Hammy. History wasn’t always a good carrier of the essential Christian message.
    Nor am I a Christian in anything but a cultural sense, recognizing and protecting our Christian heritage and its civilisation, which you are bent on destroying.

  114. Cold-Hands

    as was the solving of the “Jewish problem” in Germany in WWII, ably assisted by Pius XII.

    Hammy, immediately after the war Pius XII was recognised as the saviour of thousands of jews. The calumnies you witlessly repeat were concocted post-war by Moscow.

    During and immediately after the war, the pope was considered a Jewish saviour. Jewish leaders – such as Jerusalem’s chief rabbi in 1944 – said the people of Israel would never forget what he and his delegates “are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters at the most tragic hour”. Jewish newspapers in Britain and America echoed that praise, and Hitler branded him “a Jew lover”.

  115. tomix

    Some would say that Christianity and the religion of “Popish Persons” [ to quote part of the 2nd. last paragraph of the Preface to the KJV] such as Pius XII and the Inquisitors aren’t the same thing.

  116. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    ps I would love to be a ‘real’ Christian, but I haven’t been struck by that bolt of lightening about it, so far anyway. I respect those on the Cat who do have this genuine faith.

  117. notafan

    Another false slur on Pius XII , the Vatican in in Rome Italy controlled first by Mussolini’s facists and then by the Nazis. Bold is easy from a distance but an imprisoned Pope would have been unable to do anything.

    Hitler biographer John Toland, while scathing of Pius’s cautious public comments in relation to the mistreatment of Jews, concluded that the Allies’ own record of action against the Holocaust was “shameful”, while “The Church, under the Pope’s guidance, had already saved the lives of more Jews than all other churches, religious institutions and rescue organizations combined


    Wiki on Pope Pius X11

  118. tomix

    Germans were levied a tax to support the Catholic Church for centuries. There was an opt-out, but it was a foolhardy person who took it up.

    Pius XII had many years in which to denounce the NSDAP. If he ever did so, it must have been late in the piece, and not widely reported.

  119. tomix

    Yeah, that Mussolini guy was all powerful. That’s probably why, when the Grand Council dismissed him by letter in 1943, he accepted the arse.

  120. tomix

    Another good Catholic, Eamon de Valera as President of the Irish Republic, sent Berlin his condolences on news of the death of Hitler.

    Wikipedia that one away, if youse can.

  121. james

    Some would say that Christianity and the religion of “Popish Persons” [ to quote part of the 2nd. last paragraph of the Preface to the KJV] such as Pius XII and the Inquisitors aren’t the same thing.

    Smell that old time sectarianism in the air….

    ride a goat to work with an orange sash on do we?

  122. boy on a bike

    Is there any research on the causes of this violence? Presumably it comes down to the usual causes, such as fighting over money, infidelity/jealousy or boozing/drug taking?

    Having a promiscuous lifestyle would cause plenty of fighting over infidelity/jealousy.

  123. Diogenes

    Another good Catholic, Eamon de Valera as President of the Irish Republic, sent Berlin his condolences on news of the death of Hitler.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend !

  124. tomix


    Having a promiscuous lifestyle would cause plenty of fighting over infidelity/jealousy.

    Getting regularly fisted by one’s significant other could cause unresolved anger issues to arise unexpectedly, too.

  125. struth

    Purely a report on journalistic bias and failure.
    It starts in the schools I tells ya.

  126. thefrollickingmole

    Just an observation but the removal of the usual social restrictions on the male side (I cant hit her shes a girl) and a similar but more visceral one for the ladies (I cant hit him, he bigger than be) probably explains a fair bit of it.

    And Ill get in the shit for saying this but if you choose a violent or abusive person to enter a relationship with then dont be surprised when you get abused.

    Ive seen so many cases where otherwise intelligent people have put up with escalating abuse for NO BLOODY REASON AT ALL.
    Doing JP work means I get to hear a number of VRO’s and other restraining orders, and in 90% of cases its been going on for a while.

    It infuriates me that people seem to pay more attention to buying a used car then wondering if Billy Bongsmoke might be the best life partner they could choose.

  127. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    are lesbians more prone to breast cancer?
    Plenty of entertainment industry lesbians seem to have had it, and the subject is on billboards everywhere.

    Two-mix, this emphasis on lesbianism quite irrelevant with regard to Ca Breast.
    Breast cancer, like prostate cancer, has a strong genetic (familial) element and maybe the entertainment industry, like most others, brings in its own to work there.
    Even more likely, breast cancer is also associated with low parity (no or few children), late age of first child (over 30), and lack of breast feeding for ten months or longer. All of these apply to career women, including those in the entertainment industry. Early detection applies more to educated women too. Additionally, your sampling may be suspect. We hear more about Ca Breast when entertainers get it.

  128. tomix

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B-
    Are you saying that there are no emotional factors causing breast cancer, and that it’s all down to genetics?

  129. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    It is certainly not all down to genetics, but genetics are a strong element, so much so that women carrying the known breast cancer gene may opt to have their breasts removed for prophylactic purposes, and many do so. But the disease also attacks women without that gene.

    Emotional factors? The jury is very much out on this. There is no good direct evidence emotional factors are involved in any cancer. A lot of anguish is caused by naturopaths peddling these beliefs, and also beliefs about nutrition, as sufferers have a tendency to blame themselves for their illnesses and are open to quacks on this. Stressors can affect the internal hormonal environment of all humans, which can then affect the homeostasis or proper functioning (for want of a better word) of the organism; that is all we can say. Whether this is carcinogenic is very difficult to assess. Heavy alcohol intake is associated with breast cancer in women; this may be a factor for many women. Some lesbians are known to drink a lot, but so are non-lesbian women (pass me a drink, it doesn’t bear thinking on, these health nannies will kill you with worry if you take all of their probabilities into account).

    Apart from any genetic tendency, the tendency of lesbians to have fewer children, and to have them later, is probably more of a factor in any breast cancer they experience. We just don’t know all factors.

    Early breast self-examination is the best preventative measure. Then mammograms.

  130. wreckage

    Are you saying that there are no emotional factors causing breast cancer, and that it’s all down to genetics?

    If you’re talking a physical condition: genetics is always the way to bet, then infection, then other acquired damage, then that you’ve messed up the analysis somehow, then emotional factors.

  131. nerblnob

    <blockquote.Although, thinking about it more broadly, it is a form of social violence, which can be quite real. On the other hand, perhaps we need a word other than violence to describe these things where physical battery isn’t involved.
    There are plenty of words, but violence isn’t one of them.

    If somebody cuts your arm, the effect is measurable by any doctor and not conditional on how you feel about it, or even whether you feel it at all.

    To describe nasty social interactions as “violence” is trivialising real physical violence and makes victims worse off, not better.

    To put it more bluntly, sticks and stones will break your bones regardless of how you feel about sticks and stones. Names can only hurt you if you let them.

  132. wreckage

    nerblnob, call it coercion then.

  133. Peter

    Yet another aspect of gay relationships in which those who ignore essential differences in order to claim that such relationships are “equal”,,, are also ignoring results.

    Or suppressing them.

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