The rhetoric of the left

You think America has no further distance to fall. These are Elizabeth Warren’s 11 Commandments of Progressivism. Who’s Elizabeth Warren? Senator from Massachusetts and if Hillary doesn’t get the nomination, then she will. The only question is how long before we hear Bill Shorten saying the same:

- “We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we’re willing to fight for it.”

- “We believe in science, and that means that we have a responsibility to protect this Earth.”

- “We believe that the Internet shouldn’t be rigged to benefit big corporations, and that means real net neutrality.”

- “We believe that no one should work full-time and still live in poverty, and that means raising the minimum wage.”

- “We believe that fast-food workers deserve a livable wage, and that means that when they take to the picket line, we are proud to fight alongside them.”

- “We believe that students are entitled to get an education without being crushed by debt.”

- “We believe that after a lifetime of work, people are entitled to retire with dignity, and that means protecting Social Security, Medicare, and pensions.”

- “We believe—I can’t believe I have to say this in 2014—we believe in equal pay for equal work.”

- “We believe that equal means equal, and that’s true in marriage, it’s true in the workplace, it’s true in all of America.”

- “We believe that immigration has made this country strong and vibrant, and that means reform.”

- “And we believe that corporations are not people, that women have a right to their bodies. We will overturn Hobby Lobby and we will fight for it. We will fight for it!”

And the main tenet of conservatives’ philosophy, according to Warren? “I got mine. The rest of you are on your own.”

This kind of rhetoric is like catnip to the perpetually uninformed which in the US is now well beyond 50% of the voting population and climbing. That things only get worse when people like this are elected is just one of those things that defy explanation for those who nevertheless vote this way.

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112 Responses to The rhetoric of the left

  1. Bruce of Newcastle

    And we believe that corporations are not people, that women have a right to their bodies. We will overturn Hobby Lobby and we will fight for it. We will fight for it!”

    Ms Warren is elegant with the English language. She can manage more lies and fallacies in one tweet that just about anyone.

    So far no one has bothered to prosecute her for illegally practicing law in Massachusetts for years without a licence, for falsely claiming Amerindian heritage or for plagiarism.

    It is very interesting to me that she is favoured by the left wing of the Democrat party as their preferred candidate for the next Presidential election.

  2. stackja

    the perpetually uninformed

    defy explanation for those who nevertheless vote this way.

    First the schools teach ‘progressive’ then the MSM reinforce the ‘progressive’. Voters are none the wiser.

    Bruce of Newcastle
    #1387892, posted on July 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    MSM will never be negative.

  3. Fisky

    “We believe that mass unskilled immigration is vital for an economy where nearly everything will be automated in ten years, and that means amnesty (we also believe in more registered Democrat voters too!)”

  4. rich

    wow she can keep shaking the magic money pudding for dough to pay for her hairbrained promises. Heaven help America if she’s the next president.

  5. Dave Wane

    Obviously there is not even a taste for freedom coming from this woman?

  6. Infidel Tiger

    There’s a good chance she’ll be the next President.

    That’s the equivalent if Jacquie Lambie being out next PM. America is over. The ending sucked but all in all in it was a good run.

  7. Joe

    Democracy has run it course. Time foe something new, with more possibilities for liberty. Try Sortition along with very limited role for government.

    Personally I would restrict government to the protection of property, i.e. crime punishment, border protection and those natural monopolies that comprise infrastructure, roads, water pipes, electricity cables, communications cables.

  8. Tel

    That’s President Cherokee Princess to you!

    I wonder if she will take the oath in traditional dress?

  9. Tintarella di Luna

    I wonder if she will take the oath in traditional dress?

    A little Pochahontas leather mini and the strains of Running Bear played by the Boston Philharmonic at the inauguration and Cupcake Wars winners doing the catering with a teepee motif. What’s not to like

  10. Stephan

    They all sound good to me, though without a constitutional amendment to get money out of politics none will be realised.

  11. littledozer

    The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?

  12. Walter Plinge

    That’s Elizabeth Warren the Cherokee Indian. Her efforts to pass herself off as a native American were beyond satire.

  13. jupes

    So far no one has bothered to prosecute her for illegally practicing law in Massachusetts for years without a licence, for falsely claiming Amerindian heritage or for plagiarism.

    This is a result of the pathetic state we have allowed our societies to deteriorate to. Not only has no one bothered to prosecute her, but she remains respected enough in society that many people choose her to represent them.

    The West is going down.

  14. Tintarella di Luna

    The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?

    It doesn’t matter it sounds good, that is all. Logic, truth, evidence, reality is a shifting paradigm – it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

  15. Stephan

    The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?

    It means no two-speed internet with the higher speeds for the biggest few cable/ISP giants who buy the most politicians. The FCC head, an ‘ex’-cable lobbyist, is currently planning just such a scheme, which would basically lock crony capitalism into the architecture of the internet.

  16. Leo G

    Warren doesn’t seem genuinely progressive. I had thought that the key tenets of progressivism involved: valuing the past, upholding Western civilisation, valuing economic growth, faith in reason and knowledge obtained thereby, and upholding the worth of life on earth.
    The messages I hear in her commandment:-

    - We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we’re willing to fight for it- what have financial markets ever done for economic growth.

    - We believe in science, and that means that we have a responsibility to protect this Earth … from our scientific knowledge.

    - We believe that the Internet shouldn’t be rigged to benefit big corporations, it should only be rigged with net neutrality to rob them.

    - We believe that no one should work full-time and still live in poverty, and that means raising the minimum wage- so more people can live close to poverty.

    - We believe that fast-food workers deserve a livable wage, and that means that when they take to the picket line, we are proud to fight alongside them- but we just wouldn’t eat with them.

    - We believe that students are entitled to get an education by publicly-funded, unionised education workforces.

    - We believe that people are entitled to retire with dignity, and that means protecting Social Security, Medicare, and pensions, all funded by the lifetimes of work of other people.

    - We believe—I can’t believe I have to say this in 2014—we believe in equal pay for equal work, even if equal work has unequal costs.

    - We believe that equal means equal, and that’s true in marriage, it’s true in the workplace, it’s true in all of America. It’s true that we haven’t discovered the universally true parameter yet, but, well …

    - We believe that immigration has made this country strong and vibrant, and that means weakening borders and restricting freedom.

    - And we believe that corporations are not people, that women have a right to their bodies. We will overturn Hobby Lobby and we will fight for it. We will fight Christian employers who we believe are not equal to other employers. A woman’s right to her body is equal to her right to emergency contraception provided by her employer.

    And, fundamentally, we believe conservatives don’t deserve to be our equals.

  17. mundi

    The sad part is that the majority of the population cannot see the problems with any of these statements.

    It will be interesting to see who becomes the first major western nanny state to collapse.

  18. Tel

    The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?

    Remember CJ moaning about boating inspectors issuing bullshit fines for arbitrary things? Well, net neutrality is that, but for anyone in the communications industry.

    The end user will not be able to detect any measurable difference (other than higher prices).

  19. Tel

    It will be interesting to see who becomes the first major western nanny state to collapse.

    As long as it happens to someone else, there could be hope that Australians will capture the learning.

  20. Stephan

    We believe that the Internet shouldn’t be rigged to benefit big corporations, it should only be rigged with net neutrality to rob them.

    That’s an interesting view, that guaranteeing the same maximum speed at which content is available, no matter what your market power, is somehow ‘rigging’ the market and ‘robbing’ the giant ISPs.

    Anyonw want to expand on how net neutrality is robbing the giants? This would ostensibly be a fundamental shift, if libertarians now think the largest corporations should be able to lock in their market dominance and stifle any competition, simply by paying off enough politicians. I wouldn’t be surprised though, if it’s something ‘the left’ want, it must be evil.

  21. Oh come on

    The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?

    It means she wants the internet to contain the full breadth of perspectives*.

    Honestly, these people are children. Fancy the words “Hobby Lobby” being in your list of first principles.

  22. Oh come on

    This would ostensibly be a fundamental shift, if libertarians now think the largest corporations should be able to lock in their market dominance and stifle any competition, simply by paying off enough politicians.

    You continue to misunderstand the libertarian perspective, Stephan. No progress has been made. You really must try harder, otherwise you’re going to exist in your benighted state for a lifetime.

    Incidentally, you might want to look up the word “ostensibly”.

  23. Stephan

    Did you even read the article you linked, Leo? It was speculative and nothing to do with the current debate over net neutrality, which is about whether cable giants should be able to deliver faster internet delivery than everyone else, now that they’ve effectively bought infrastructure monopolies in most areas.

    In fact, this whole anti-competitive mess is a great cautionary tale as to why a publicly-owned communications network is the best way to go – a given local network inevitably turns into a natural monopoly, or close enough. Monopolies = no competition = price gouging with impunity.

  24. fry

    I’ll bet Michelle Obama will be the next President of the United States.

    Barry is setting up for the Obama Dynasty, which will be followed by them becoming Royalty in the USA.

    Democracy is over and it is about entitlement in the USA now and given a choice between two old white women and an Obama woman, Michelle is a shoe in.

    This creep may claim to be from a minority group, Michelle will ace her, and Hillary.

    The Obamas took notes when they watched the Democrats attack McCain for being too old, he was 71 at the time and now Hillary is 69 and Warren is 65 while Michelle is 50 (and looks way better than the other two!).

  25. Stephan

    *deliver faster internet content

  26. Brett_McS

    Elizabeth Warren the Cherokee Indian

    . I believe Fauxcahontas is her Indian name.

  27. Paul

    “The third point she makes “real net neutrality” what does that mean?”

    You’ll find out what it was after its gone.

  28. H B Bear

    Hillary v Warren? America is finished. They join Great Britain and Europe on the long slide.

    Their democracy is broken. They are voting for their demise.

  29. Oh come on

    In fact, this whole anti-competitive mess is a great cautionary tale as to why a publicly-owned communications network is the best way to go – a given local network inevitably turns into a natural monopoly, or close enough. Monopolies = no competition = price gouging with impunity.

    Because state-owned monopolies are so much better. We’re all just longing for the return of the Postmaster General’s Department.

    Well there’s always the NBN.

  30. coz

    Sounds like the usual mozzer bullshit.

  31. Brett_McS

    I’m sure she’ll do as much for Indian Americans** as Obama has for African Americans.

    ** “That’s Casino Indians, not Call Center Indians”.

  32. Billy the Kidder

    With all the fuss about Hobby Lobby, it seems very true that Obamacare was 100% about abortion, disguised as a general health issue.

    Girlies, if you don’t want to get up the duff then close your slutty legs… or at least use appropriate prophylactics. If you really can’t stand the idea of children then get your tubes tied or ask your bloke to.

  33. Baldrick

    The baton will be handed from the Magic Negro to Magic Female Native Indian. Pity she’s not gay!

  34. Stephan

    Because state-owned monopolies are so much better. We’re all just longing for the return of the Postmaster General’s Department.

    In this case it certainly is – behold, the South Korean model. Publicly-owned network leased by ISPs who have to compete on a level playing field. Lots of choice, lots of competition, good service and low prices. Essentially what the NBN would’ve been (and still might be, Jesus H willing).

    This is the problem with a ‘private is always better’ ideology, there are complex situations and exceptions everywhere, and the holy axioms of Mises et. al. don’t always hold.

  35. Oh come on

    Get a clue, Stephan. It’s relatively affordable to install a FTTH network in a geographically puny country with concentrated population centres like South Korea. (Ditto the other leftist panacaea, high speed rail.) In a geographically vast country with a puny population like Australia, it’d be cripplingly expensive. The benefits simply do not justify the expense. (Ditto high speed rail.)

    And if we were boneheaded enough to waste our precious resources on either boondoggle, they’d both be rendered obsolete by superior technology within a decade.

    What am I talking about. High speed rail is already obsolete.

  36. Stephan

    Get a clue, Stephan. It’s relatively affordable to install a FTTH network in a geographically puny country with concentrated population centres like South Korea. (Ditto the other leftist panacaea, high speed rail.) In a geographically vast country with a puny population like Australia, it’d be cripplingly expensive. The benefits simply do not justify the expense. (Ditto high speed rail.)

    Please explain how a $100 billion (at most) government outlay would be ‘crippling’ for Australia? Or is it just that the ROI would take longer. Either way that’s now a separate argument, and you’ve not solved the local area monopoly problem.

  37. Oh come on

    Can you please find a credible source that proves your claim that the NBN would cost “at most $100 billion”. Most telecommunications industry people I’ve heard said it’ll need a blank cheque.

    Or is it just that the ROI would take longer.

    There would be no ROI. The network would be obsolete long before it paid for itself.

  38. JohnA

    Tintarella di Luna #1388014, posted on July 19, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    I wonder if she will take the oath in traditional dress?

    A little Pochahontas leather mini and the strains of Running Bear played by the Boston Philharmonic at the inauguration and Cupcake Wars winners doing the catering with a teepee motif. What’s not to like

    Shouldn’t that be “Cherokee People” ?

    PS: I like fauxchahontas!

  39. Stephan

    And if we were boneheaded enough to waste our precious resources on either boondoggle, they’d both be rendered obsolete by superior technology within a decade.

    What a lol:

    “The main system being used for the home NBN connections is called a GPON (or Gigabit Passive Optical Network). This allows for speeds of up to 1 Gigabit per second (Gbps) and is currently the fastest such technology available. If faster versions of GPON are developed in the future, the NBN can be upgraded… Even if faster GPON systems become available, the NBN will certainly not become obsolete.”

    “Could copper provide faster speeds than the NBN?

    No.”

    “Could wireless broadband provide faster speeds than the NBN?

    No. Unfortunately, the speed and capacity of wireless networks is hampered by unassailable limitations of the technology. It is a physical impossibility for any wireless network to be capable of exceeding the speed or capacity of a fibre-optic network.

    Each time we increase the speed of a wireless network or add more users, it consumes more of the radio spectrum. There is only a very small amount of radio spectrum available for use in wireless broadband networks.”

    “There is no technology currently available, in development, or even on the drawing boards that can make fibre-optic cables obsolete.”

    So yeah, nah (for the 10,000th time).

  40. Oh come on

    Not so fast, sport. I’m not claiming that wireless is faster than FTTH (and nor am I claiming that wireless is the future). Wireless (or whatever technology ameliorates the Conrovian investment in the NBN) doesn’t have to be faster than FTTH. It just has to be fast enough. And a helluva lot cheaper. Neither is a particularly high hurdle.

  41. Stephan

    Again:

    “There is only a very small amount of radio spectrum available for use in wireless broadband networks.”

    Implying – not even close to a feasible option as an urban data communications backbone. That leaves us with copper or fibre for towns and cities.

  42. Oh come on

    Hey, Stephan. You know the Betamax’s picture quality is superior to VHS. Using your logic (or the logic you lifted from that rubbish blog shilling for the NBN), Sony won that format war and no one’s ever heard of VHS.

  43. Leo G

    Did you even read the article you linked, Leo? It was speculative and nothing to do with the current debate over net neutrality, which is about whether cable giants should be able to deliver faster internet delivery than everyone else, now that they’ve effectively bought infrastructure monopolies in most areas.

    I see you subscribe to the propaganda that without net neutrality the Internet will be compromised by monopolies and the way to keep it pure is ensure it is a public utility. Regulating an industry as a public utility would be regarded by any of the Cat’s economists as the measure of last resort. There are better ways of preventing a monopoly.
    The net neutrality debate in Warren’s mind relates to a recent US Appeals Court decision which obviated rules the FCC introduced four years ago and prompted moral panic among those of the Left who fear paid prioritisation for services to the P2P content providers that are driving up ISP costs. The FCC have recodified those NN rules in an environment complicated by a misinformation campaign by the usual suspects.
    The idea that the Internet is “neutral” is rather laughable- a legal joke I suspect. How can a content delivery network be neutral in that sense?
    The BBC site to which I linked has a left-bias not unlike your own- but at least it does remind that in the US the Internet is not yet a human right, it is still a business controlled by market forces.

  44. Oh come on

    Before we continue, Stephan – what degree of expertise in telecommunications do you possess? Beyond Google, of course.

  45. Hey, I thought the culture war was over?

  46. Oh come on

    I’m not asking to pull rank. I’m an armchair enthusiast myself. The difference between you and me is that I’m not advocating spending hundreds of billions of dollars of other people’s money on something I have an – at best – incomplete understanding of.

  47. JohnA

    Sigh!!

    If faster versions of GPON are developed in the future, the NBN can be upgraded

    Stephan, I have been around the computing arena for nigh on 40 years – most of my working (ha!) life.

    “Can be upgraded”
    “impossible according to the laws of physics”
    etc. ad nauseum

    I have heard soooo often. It was supposed to be impossible to exceed 9600 baud using modems, a long time ago!

    Actually the PMG invented the NBN in the early 1970s, and called it by the unmarketable name “CUDN” Common User Data Network.

    That was such an obvious dud that it died a death and the Americans took it up, and gave it the snazzy marketing name “internet” – well, according to Al Gore, that is… :-)

    Bridge. Build. Traverse.

  48. Blogstrop

    I think “son of Hammy” proves it’s happening here too.

  49. tomix


    The baton will be handed from the Magic Negro to Magic Female Native Indian. Pity she’s not gay!


    She’s not? I find that hard to believe.

  50. Tel

    The next logical step would be “vehicle neutrality” where are vehicles are exactly the same size, cost exactly the same amount and all have the same top speed.

    No businesses would be allowed to buy a fleet of vehicles, because this might be seen as gaining an unfair advantage over people who have only one.

    All roads will be the exact same width and (surprisingly) the exact same length as well, because someone driving on a shorter road would unfairly get there first.

    Equal mean equal, and that means whatever I say it does. The spirits have spoken, disobedience will be punished, the mountain is angry!

  51. Tel

    There is no technology currently available, in development, or even on the drawing boards that can make fibre-optic cables obsolete.

    What? You still using that old single core finer? Get with it! Everyone else has moved to multicore already, you slow or something?

    http://www.lightwaveonline.com/articles/2014/05/fibercore-creates-customized-multicore-optical-fibers.html

  52. egg_

    “There is no technology currently available, in development, or even on the drawing boards that can make fibre-optic cables obsolete.”

    On an economic basis?
    It has to compete on a bandwidth vs cost basis with other technologies, particularly wireless, its complement for over a century.

  53. Demosthenes

    It has to compete on a bandwidth vs cost basis with other technologies, particularly wireless,

    Wireless depends on fibre.

  54. egg_

    Wireless depends on fibre.

    We’re talking FTTH.
    The backbone network is composed of both wireless and cable – note the terrestrial dishes on Telstra towers?

  55. Helen

    closing slutty legs (billythekidder 10.45 am)? how about all blokes keep their dicks in their pants unless they are covered with plastic. What, don’t you have any self control? Well that says it all.

  56. Tel

    It has to compete on a bandwidth vs cost basis with other technologies, particularly wireless, its complement for over a century.

    Wireless and fiber are economically competitive not complimentary. Every dollar that gets spent on wireless products is a dollar not spent on fiber (nor copper for that matter). Having better quality wireless reduces your need for other services. Of course, it is nice to have both, if you have money spare for both, but economics is all about tradeoffs.

  57. Tel

    Wireless depends on fibre.

    There’s been fiber running the long legs between capital cities in Australia for the past 30 years. So what?

    These days I can think of a bunch of private companies with fiber installation (both long legs and last mile) in Australia: Telstra, Optus, AAPT, TPG, Soul, Powertel, Nextgen Networks, Opticom, TransACT, OPENetworks, Broadcast Engineering Services, Comverge, Pivit, Service Elements. Probably others, all operating before NBN came along.

    There’s also quite a lot of wireless operators out there, like BigAir for example, and they pre-dated the NBN as well. The private free market really did a very good job of diverse business models and diverse technology deployment, providing customers with a lot of options.

    That’s not even getting into the undersea fiber and the satellite operators (of which there are a whole bunch more).

  58. Bob

    Poor Campbell Newman.

    One term and gone

  59. Yobbo

    The point in regards to the NBN is that people living in buttfuck Northern Queensland do not need fibre optic internet connections but we are going to be forced to provide them anyway, at a massive, wasteful cost to the taxpayer.

    My parents live in a remote regional area and between the two of them they struggle to compose an e-mail. They would still have a dialup connection if people were still selling them. The reason the NBN suck is because it forces people like my parents to purchase a $250 a month, state of the art system for something they never use.

    It’s the equivalent of buying everyone in Australia a BMW when many would be happy with a Hyundai.

  60. egg_

    There’s been fiber running the long legs between capital cities in Australia for the past 30 years.

    There is also a terrestrial wireless network – NSW hub is Haymarket exchange in Sydney (NOT to be confused with ‘wireless’ cellphones to subscribers) for long haul trunking – IIRC even submarine cable to the US transits Hawaii via an overland wireless network.

  61. Oh come on

    The reason the NBN suck is because it forces people like my parents to purchase a $250 a month, state of the art system for something they never use.

    But but but telemedicine!

  62. .Dr.Sir Fred Lenin

    The nbn was simply a sneaky leftist way of re nationalizing communications.a typical Liebor Parody underhand plan to control communications.This control enables unwanted governments to retain power.Was there freedom of communication under the Nazis and Soviet Fascist regimes? I think not,and like all alp plots “It will cost somewhere between 3 Billion and 476 Billion Ballpark figure”.Privatise ,if anyone will buy the almost obsolete thing,like its inventors “Foward into the Past Comrades” .

  63. Tekweni

    Will somebody explain why having super fast internet in the bush and even in the suburbs suddenly turn Australia into a hugely wealthy country? Are farms and private houses all suddenly going to become hubs of tech savvy business? Certainly downloading porn will be quicker and no doubt Pirate Bay will become even more popular but seriously what difference is super high speed internet going to do to our economy in areas where there are no significant businesses? Is some farmer going to be selling organic produce on eBay from some obscure little town?
    It just seems like there is some assumption that if all have high speed internet all those who did not have it in the past are suddenly going to become busy little entrepreneurs despite the fact that they have not shown any indication of this in the past. And what evidence is there that countries that do have high speed internet in most areas being so advanced?

  64. Ellen of Tasmania

    And, fundamentally, we believe conservatives don’t deserve to be our equals.

    The left consider themselves to be our moral and intellectual superiors. Pride does indeed go before a fall, but they intend to bring us all down with them.

  65. Tel

    NSW hub is Haymarket exchange in Sydney (NOT to be confused with ‘wireless’ cellphones to subscribers) for long haul trunking.

    Yes there’s quite a microwave mesh in Sydney, I was on top of a building and pointing an 11GHz satellite LNB at that big microwave tower which I think is near Redfern (not pointing the whole satellite dish, just the LNB in my hand with an aperture of 20mm by 10mm, which is just the waveguide coupler). That was enough to saturate the LNB input right there (distance approx 20km to the tower, at a guess). Some serious radiation coming off that tower.

    However, my point about BigAir is you can very easily have multiple private microwave mesh networks competing in the same space, and that’s what we do have. Normal people just don’t have any way to access the Telstra microwave backhaul, but you can buy BigAir, and get some pretty decent bandwitch (perhaps a little expensive).

    At any rate, this sort of “long haul” microwave trunking is limited to line of sight. I was at the Huawei roadshow last week (which is good, try to go if you get the chance) and they were saying they can do point to point microwave maybe up to 200 km, but that isn’t enough to get you from Sydney to Melbourne. At some stage you need fiber for long distances… as I said, everyone recognized that 30 years ago in Australia and those long legs got built, but NBN comes along last man to the party and decides they have this amazing idea they are going to drag fiber into granny’s loungeroom. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  66. .

    The NBN was never going to be completed and was going to cost over 200 bn AUD.

    With VDSL vectoring which uses copper already in the ground and can get NBN like speeds and bandwidth, there is no need for the NBN.

  67. Tel

    The point in regards to the NBN is that people living in buttfuck Northern Queensland do not need fibre optic internet connections but we are going to be forced to provide them anyway, at a massive, wasteful cost to the taxpayer.

    I think even the ALP finally figured out that in remote areas, point-to-point microwave is the right way to do it… either via a physical dish, or using LTE beam forming (virtual dish), or some combination (physical dish at the homestead, virtual dish at the hub). The thing is, buttfuck Northern Queensland is not a place to make a lot of money, so basically you wait until the technology is cheap enough, and then get some local guys to deploy behind the main curve. That’s just what happens in remote areas, it really is technology trickle down, and it does (eventually) benefit those people.

    Trying to broadly deploy a new technology (and wrongly chosen) to low budget areas, ahead of the main deployment curve is rock-for-brains territory.

  68. .

    This kind of rhetoric is like catnip to the perpetually uninformed which in the US is now well beyond 50% of the voting population and climbing. That things only get worse when people like this are elected is just one of those things that defy explanation for those who nevertheless vote this way.

    They are all hollow and rely on falsehoods, a loss of liberty and redistribution for no utilitarian reason – the reason is envy.

  69. egg_

    Normal people just don’t have any way to access the Telstra microwave backhaul

    Precisely, it’s their internal network.
    The terrestrial (microwave) wireless network is a national internal network – Waverley tower (Redfern) is the main Sydney tower that was likely swamping your signal.
    This network has been a large part of Oz national TV network until the Digital Video Network (DVN) which may still be carried via terrestrial microwave in some parts.
    Cable/wireless is simply regarded as the bearer (Layer I, OSI) in Telco terminology.

    Black Mountain tower is a prima facie example of the terrestrial wireless network (node) to/from the nation’s capital.

  70. Tel

    With VDSL vectoring which uses copper already in the ground and can get NBN like speeds and bandwidth, there is no need for the NBN.

    You can get up to 80M on a bunch of copper pairs right now, without needing the latest VDSL etc. AAPT have been offering it for a while. Think about it from the point of view of a typical city business (that’s where these things get deployed)… so once upon a time they would have about 10 analog phone lines running on copper pairs into their PBX, but now they use perhaps 8 of those pairs to run Hatteras Ethernet or something similar, and two pairs for their FAX machines, with phones moved to VoIP. In terms of infrastructure nothing changes, the copper is sitting exactly the same as before, but now the business has both a phone system, and decent Internet.

    It’s actually a more resiliant solution, because it deals with one or two pairs getting cut (slows down, but keeps working). With the NBN design you are vulnerable to a truck backing over one of their roadside cabinets and everyone in the street will be out for a week.

  71. David from Canberra

    It will be interesting to see who becomes the first major western nanny state to collapse.

    My money is on France.

  72. .

    The private sector was before 2010 and still is offering better products than the NBN.

    It did not cost taxpayers a cent.

    Lefties cannot grasp this reality.

  73. Alfonso

    There’s no way back.
    What population in a democracy has ever chosen to reject OPM and Xerox pump money from govt. Never happen. I always wondered what would happen when state socialism arrived big time in the US. The US$ collapse should be slow, State secession with residency laws on the cards. 47 million Americans on some form of food stamp is bewildering.

  74. Tel

    Waverley tower (Redfern) is the main Sydney tower that was likely swamping your signal.

    Yeah, that’s probably the radiator I was looking at, it seems to feed backhaul into some of the mobile phone cells as well. I can’t remember the percentage of mobile cells running wireless backhaul, but quite a few of them are.

    Precisely, it’s their internal network.

    That’s why free market competition is so useful, other companies are willing to sell similar networks as a service to the end customer, this puts pressure on the big guys to keep their prices down. Everyone wins.

    Next week the same technology is cheaper, and off we go for another round of commercial throat cutting… great!

  75. Paul

    Poor Campbell Newman.

    One term and gone

    Poor Queensland. How dare those politicians actually try to do what they said they needed to do. Don’t they know how hooked we all are on “free” stuff these days?

  76. That’s an interesting view, that guaranteeing the same maximum speed at which content is available, no matter what your market power, is somehow ‘rigging’ the market and ‘robbing’ the giant ISPs.

    Internet communism. Stephanie, you’re worse than a troll, you are a totalitarian wannabe tyrant. Why don’t you test their loyalty to you by challenging them on any point of your choosing? See their true colours, or show yours by not challenging them, but we already know the answer.

  77. tomix

    Be interesting to see turnout figures for Stafford, and if the AEC had sufficient trained casuals at the booths to prevent queues due to the voting ID requirement.

  78. Diogenes

    To quickly clear up a misconception the Hobby Lobby decision did not mean that the employer mandated health cover did not have to include contraception. It still does. The Hobby Lobby decision only said the coverage did not have to provide for abortifactents or abortion.

    The Supreme Court is still to rule on whether nuns need to be covered by even the contraceptive requirement (and I am sure many single males would like that removed from their health cover as well with concomitant reduction in premium :-0 )

  79. egg_

    Yes there’s quite a microwave mesh in Sydney

    Yeah, the (Oz) industry parlance is (microwave) radio tower – ‘RT’ for short, so ‘Waverley RT’ was likely in your line of sight.
    SKY* Racing used to use the RT’s for line of sight for most race courses, but now have a national fibre network since the 90s, about the same time as Foxtel* fibred all of the NRL grounds during ‘Superleague’.

    *Da eebil Murdoch capitalist. /sarc

  80. Tel

    Will somebody explain why having super fast internet in the bush and even in the suburbs suddenly turn Australia into a hugely wealthy country?

    It won’t, but I could talk at length. Farmers want to check out the news, look at produce prices, make orders from Internet shops, and access educational material. None of that requires fiber speeds, but more speed is still nice to have. More speed costs more money: tradeoffs, economic calculation.

    Are farms and private houses all suddenly going to become hubs of tech savvy business?

    No, they will become customers of tech savvy business. For example, small busines has a headbanging time with accounting. Something like Xero is useful if you have an Internet link, you can subscribe to a service that makes your accounting easier. If you don’t have a link, then it is useless, however is does not require “super fast broadband” just something reasonable. All sorts of other service industry products exist on the Internet, most of them work find over ordinary ADSL.

    Certainly downloading porn will be quicker and no doubt Pirate Bay will become even more popular but seriously what difference is super high speed internet going to do to our economy in areas where there are no significant businesses? Is some farmer going to be selling organic produce on eBay from some obscure little town?

    For the farmer selling produce, shipping is still vastly more expensive than Internet.

    Remote areas necessarily have less infrastructure than high density city areas. No one is ever going to rebuild the Sydney Opera house and Harbour Bridge in every country town.

  81. Zatara

    “Never happen. I always wondered what would happen when state socialism arrived big time in the US. The US$ collapse should be slow, State secession with residency laws on the cards. 47 million Americans on some form of food stamp is bewildering.”

    And yet the US communications infrastructure and electrical power grids are entirely private.
    Not Government, never have been.

    Health care is about to go private again as well.

    Go figure.

  82. Tel

    No. Unfortunately, the speed and capacity of wireless networks is hampered by unassailable limitations of the technology. It is a physical impossibility for any wireless network to be capable of exceeding the speed or capacity of a fibre-optic network.

    I happen to believe that we are not anywhere close to the limitations of wireless. No one believed that over the horizon radar was possible, until we went and did it. Same will happen when we go full radio holography which cannot be too far down the track.

    At any rate, wireless does not need to outrun fiber in speed, it only needs to get costs down and deliver a “good enough” outcome, coupled with mobility. In terms of last mile, mobility plus low cost are an unbeatable economic combination.

  83. egg_

    At any rate, wireless does not need to outrun fiber in speed, it only needs to get costs down and deliver a “good enough” outcome, coupled with mobility. In terms of last mile, mobility plus low cost are an unbeatable economic combination.

    In a nutshell.
    Intercontinental submarine optical fibre cables run both multi-mode cores and DWDM (dense wave division multiplexing) – Telco intra- and inter- networks can run such technology due to cost benefits, it will only trickle down to Joe at home when the economics determine so.

  84. Jock

    Unfortunately Warren is a great speaker and can motivate an audience. However she is also inexperienced, administratively unskilled and incapable of implementing policy. By voting for her the American people will go from one incompetant president, to another.

  85. Poor Campbell Newman.

    One term and gone

    he’s not gone yet.

  86. Michaelc58

    The challenge for us conservatives and libertarians is to write our 11 commandments with the same meaning and resonance to the public, instead of just laughing about theirs.

    That means using the same, real world, personally relevant examples, that appeal to fairness and emotion.

    And it means not wasting time, appealing to abstract concepts like liberty, free speech, democracy, free markets, economic growth, deficits and national debt, which sadly have zero meaning and zero relevance to the ordinary voter.

    Would anyone like to have a go?

  87. tgs

    I’d be very surprised if Warren got the nomination. She’s too liberal (in the US sense of the word) for presidential politics.

  88. Diogenes

    I’d be very surprised if Warren got the nomination. She’s too liberal (in the US sense of the word) for presidential politics.

    I dunno, having seen act 1 in the current President. Mrs D’s aunt & uncle live in the Peoples Republic of San Francisco (and they, the rellies, are as conservative as they come ) and the local yokels, whom they refer to as the “enemy” would support “Liawatha” rather than Hillary (the rellies name for her). Rellies have enough and are now preparing to move back to Sydney.

  89. Diogenes

    oops have had enough

  90. Oh come on

    The challenge for us conservatives and libertarians is to write our 11 commandments with the same meaning and resonance to the public

    Ay? You reckon that load of old tosh from Warren has any resonance outside of the politically irrelevant Nutroots community?

    The vast majority of the public are going to be turned off by *any* political movement’s “11 commandments”.

  91. Leo G

    “There is no technology currently available, in development, or even on the drawing boards that can make fibre-optic cables obsolete.”
    So yeah, nah (for the 10,000th time).

    Stephan claiming to have defeated an argument- an argument that wasn’t made.
    The optical fibre cables used in the last mile of the first installations would have a superior replacement cable already (perhaps even when it was installed). The circuit switching method used for that cable was obsolete at the beginning of the Internet. The passive splitting used in Labor’s FTTH wastes at least 97% of the bandwidth compared with a comparable arrangement using active fibre and packet switching (and probably wastes more than 99.99% in a high-use community).

  92. .

    - “We believe that the Internet shouldn’t be rigged to benefit big corporations, and that means real net neutrality.”

    Piss off swampy. We want private virtual networks, copper pairing, VDLS vectoring, 5G, private fibre and back haul/dark fibre, TOR browsers/ networks, torrents, bit coins and meshwebs.

    We want freedom.

  93. .

    We want white spaces. We want IP over DVB. We want VOIP. We want the outernet.

    The government, paticularly the US government, or a Democrat President, do not want these things.

    Another reason to ignore an American politician as to what the masses want:

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/man-creates-software-to-send-computer-data-through-the-radio/303946-11.html

  94. .

    Net neutrality is nonsense.

    This newcomer is kicking arse and taking names in a technology others weren’t willing to touch:

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/06/22/using-radio-signals-internet-startup-takes-cable-giants/rWzEaNHNfoBy89hDo9OG0J/story.html

    For businesses that demand more bandwidth, netBlazr offers speeds of up to 500 megabits per second, or enough to support a big company with hundreds of employees.

    Yes. That is also much faster than the NBN. All paid for by the private sector and it didn’t cost the taxpayer a cent.

  95. MT Isa Miner

    Michaelc58

    #1388694, posted on July 20, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    The challenge for us conservatives and libertarians is to write our 11 commandments with the same meaning and resonance to the public, instead of just laughing about theirs.

    That means using the same, real world, personally relevant examples, that appeal to fairness and emotion.

    And it means not wasting time, appealing to abstract concepts like liberty, free speech, democracy, free markets, economic growth, deficits and national debt, which sadly have zero meaning and zero relevance to the ordinary voter.

    Would anyone like to have a go?

    I reckon it needs to be done., Michaelc. I’m sick and tired of the socialists grabbing all the words and looking smart. But if they are they only ones talking it’s no wonder they get away with it.

  96. James in Melbourne

    I assumed this ghastly harridan would have been laughed off the scene when her ludicrous attempt to claim native American ancestry was exposed as rubbish. I was wrong. “Fauxcahontas” needs further puncturing. Were she to get the Moochers’ Party nomination, I’d love to see the Republicans double-trump her by choosing New Mexico Governor Susanna Martinez.

  97. Shy Ted

    Would we be allowed to ask Native American Indian Elizabeth Warren, “How?” or would that be racist?

  98. Rococo Liberal

    Ain’t it grand. In the Spectator I read a review of David Marquand’s latest book which is lament by a stupid lefty for the fact that the right has won the debate over the last 10 years. Then I come here and we get the usual whining about the left taking over.

    Fauxchohontas is as likely to be PotUS as Sinclair Davidson is to be Miss World.

    Lighten up people.

  99. Rococo Liberal

    Though I bet Doomlord would do well in the round where they ask you a question about World affairs. he could give a long dissertaion on Say’s Law.

  100. Derp

    Long time no see Rococo.
    Have missed you.

  101. Gab

    Fauxchohontas is as likely to be PotUS as Sinclair Davidson is to be Miss World.

    Oh I dunno. I’ve seen him in a kilt. Nice legs.

  102. john constantine

    the nbn is designed by the swampies to provide a massive sheltered workshop for the lesser freckled swampie,at lower levels and a high wage government benefit sheltered workshop for the greater gulping swampie at the higher levels.

    no ticket, no start. jobs and consultancies for the right sort of mates, that of course contribute to all the ‘voluntary’ calls for capital gifts to the swampie cause.

    the thought of having competition among astute and agile providers to provide what people desire, instead of inflicting a one dimensional herd mentality on the public–swampies can’t cope with that suggestion.

    the swampie mind just simply has blind spots. trying to suggest that the ‘masses’ want mobility instead of being tethered, and value for money instead of perfection is like trying to describe the difference between blue and green to the colourblind.

  103. rich

    Please explain how a $100 billion (at most) government outlay would be ‘crippling’ for Australia?

    Cost and timing grossly underestimated. At this run-rate, the NBN as ALP envisioned it will take longer and cost $200 BN minimum.

    Or is it just that the ROI would take longer.

    If I take a 500k mortgauge to buy a car, I am too leveraged to buy a house. “ROI takes longer” sounds inconsequential to you, but there is significant opportunity cost in “picking winners” and paying for the privilege with taxpayer dollars

    not even close to a feasible option as an urban data communications backbone.

    Even your maligned “fraudband” uses a fibre backbone. Mobile towers need to be connected by fibre backbone, and we can’t put it in fast enough to service demand. The real cost of NBN is the last mile, from the pillar to the house. So when you mention “urban data communications backbone” you are being deceptive.

    As said, the NBN does not need to be faster, just like the voice quality (MOS score) on a mobile phone does not have to be equivalent to landline. All a mobile network has to do is be a more convenient substitute, then the NBN’s ROI assumptions are shot.

  104. Adam

    “… To sum up, translating all this from bafflegab and craptalk to English, it means three things (1) the Left are parochial, and only regard the issues of the current news cycle as being principles (2) the Left hates civilization and all its institutions (3) the Left hates the Catholic Church, and will destroy itself attempting to destroy her …”

    My favorite part of the best take-down of this rubbish on the internet:

    http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/07/the-devils-dictionary/

  105. .

    Very well said rich.

    I won’t have an American socialist tell me what internet I want, nor put up with Australian undergraduates who thinks that fraud is the duck’s guts.

  106. Leo

    @ Bruce of Newcastle, lol, really? I think she would be hard pressed to beat Mr Abbott.
    While the views of many on this site I find unnerving and toxic I do enjoy the odd belly laugh at some of the comments.

  107. wreckage

    1. We believe in getting paid for what we do, build, and know, not for what we say.

    2. We believe that making money is a good thing, even when – and this is the tricky part – even when somebody else is making it.

    3. We believe in jobs. Actual jobs, producing things people actually want.

    4. We believe in reliance on self, and on family, and on community, not on the soulless machinery of government.

    5. We believe that who can, does, and who can’t should shut the hell up.

    6. We believe that you own yourself, you own your thoughts, and you own your stuff. It’s not a privilege that your betters graciously permit provided you’re good enough to deserve their condescension, nor is it theirs to snatch away if you – or your town, or your industry – fall out of favour.

    7. We believe we live in a society not an economy; and therefore everything the government takes, it takes from society.

    8. We believe in making things better, not voting on who we’re going to try to force to make things better.

    9. We believe you know yourself better than a government-approved document knows you. And not just yourself but your kids, your business, your community. We believe in de-regulation because we don’t believe complex problems can be solved by ticking the boxes on the official form and filing it with the Department. People, not paperwork, solve problems; but only if they’re free to act.

    10. We believe that adding more politicians is never an improvement.

  108. wreckage

    These could be slimmed a bit, bu they’re a start.

  109. wreckage

    Nobody else got anything?

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