If only 18c allowed us to speak as frankly in Australia …

(via JB and Kae)

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217 Responses to If only 18c allowed us to speak as frankly in Australia …

  1. Peter from SA

    Nice link Sinc … always refreshing to hear intelligent commentary from the US.

    What exactly did they say? That the main enemy of Israel is not Hamas but western opinion? ha.

  2. What exactly did they say? That the main enemy of Israel is not Hamas but western opinion? ha.

    No, they made fun of that claim.

  3. Infidel Tiger

    Bill Maher in most other respects is a perfect lefty, but has had the complete shits with Islam.

  4. The people in this video demolish all the current talking points on Israel/Gaza in 5 minutes.

  5. DMS

    Interesting.

    I steam this show every week it’s on. Unlike in Australia this is a leftist show thAt regularly has conservatives, so can have good debate. I rustled agree with Bill Maher tho. Until now.

  6. DMS

    *rarely agree. Bloody autocorrect.

  7. Motelier

    The fact is we can not speak this way.

    Simple.

    And I can not see any way in the future for it to change.

  8. .

    Every ALP politician should be forced to watch this no nonsense segment.

  9. Stephan

    So why doesn’t Israel continue retaliation for rocket attacks (which is fair enough), while getting out (and staying out) of the Palestinian territories they’ve occupied? Then they’d have more moral authority to wipe out Hamas leadership unless the Palestians agree to do something about their terrorist leaders.

    The obvious answer is that Israel’s right-wing leadership are far more interested in 1.) grabbing land with impunity, and 2.) keeping their own citizens in fear n’ nationalism mode, than pursuing a peaceful solution.

  10. bingbing

    Good to see lefties waking up to the fact that their biggest enemy is not righties, but their current bed partner.

  11. .

    Destroying tunnels and weapons caches means Israel would have to occupy Palestine.

    You’re a clever little liar, but you’re also an ignorant little shit.

  12. Stephan

    Oh, and 3.) They’re also addicted to U.S. welfare, which retarded U.S. politics and the perpetual cycle of war and ‘existential threat’ smokescreen guarantees.

  13. Stephan

    Destroying tunnels and weapons caches means Israel would have to occupy Palestine.

    Not really, they have missiles for that these days.

  14. .

    Stephan
    #1390321, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:22 pm
    Oh, and 3.) They’re also addicted to U.S. welfare, which retarded U.S. politics and the perpetual cycle of war and ‘existential threat’ smokescreen guarantees.

    What “welfare” does Israel get off America?

    Palestine gets welfare from the US and Israel.

    Which they use to build tunnels for warfare and arm themselves to indiscriminately kill Israeli civilians.

    You’ve drank the kool aid and bought the all white nike jogging suit, haven’t you, Stephan?

  15. doug

    Very good to hear some sense in the media. Now, if only Fairfax and channel 9 could be as objective. Nah, they’ll go to where the bodies are to make Israel look bad. No truth in their reporting -sadly.

  16. .

    Stephan
    #1390324, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:23 pm
    Destroying tunnels and weapons caches means Israel would have to occupy Palestine.

    Not really, they have missiles for that these days.

    They have missiles that fly by wire underground and do trench clearance do they?

    You godawful shit talking space cadet.

  17. Peter from SA

    while getting out (and staying out) of the Palestinian territories they’ve occupied?

    They have withdrawn from Gaza and the attacks kept coming. Hamas simply does not want peace and cannot be party to a negotiated settlement.

  18. Aristogeiton

    Fuck off and die Stephanie. I don’t have the patience for you tonight.

  19. .

    Shut up, sit down and read this Stephan, you ignorant, deluded, ideologically brainwashed bloody idiot:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

    Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.
    Article 22 Makes sweeping claims about Jewish influence and power.
    Article 28 Conspiracy indictment against “Israel, Judaism and Jews”.
    Article 32 Hamas condemns as co-plotters the “imperialistic powers”. References The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
    The Preamble to the Charter states: ″Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it″.

  20. Biota

    Surely the Palestinian apologists don’t believe that under any circumstances they could establish a stable ordered society. If they could, they would have already.

  21. Aristogeiton

    Stephanie, will it take another holocaust for you to be satisfied you horrendous cun’t?

  22. David

    Stephan you are either misinformed or just an old fashioned Jew Hater. I am inclined to believe the latter.

    Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. It does not have in its raison d’etre a clause reading we are going to eliminate all muslims unlike Hamas who have the stated aim of destroying Israel and killing all Jews.

    Just have a look at the attempts by the Muslim world to destroy Israel since its founding in 1948. All conflicts started by Arabs.

  23. Stephan

    They have missiles that fly by wire underground and do trench clearance do they?

    You godawful shit talking space cadet.

    Yeah, I’m sure it’s weapons caches that keep Israeli settlers building residential housing in Palestinian territory. Aggressively ignorant, you are.

  24. Stephan

    Stephanie, will it take another holocaust for you to be satisfied you horrendous cun’t?

    Here we go, fall back to the PC ‘anti-semitism’ catchcry. Help! I’m being oppressed!

  25. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1390356, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:35 pm
    [...]
    Here we go, fall back to the PC ‘anti-semitism’ catchcry. Help! I’m being oppressed!

    You know Stephanie, I’m thinking about smashing your stupid face into the pavement with bloodied elbows right now.

  26. Stephan

    Dot, full stop, whatever, I’m aware of Hamas’ charter and I’m perfectly happy with them being dumped by their people and/or wiped out. It still doesn’t justify Israel’s settlement annexations, and in fact Israeli leadership are happy with Hamas being there, since it lets them continue their land grabs and U.S. welfare dependency, knowing they have midgets like you proferring these red herrings to those who question them.

  27. Stephan

    You know Stephanie, I’m thinking about smashing your stupid face into the pavement with bloodied elbows right now.

    You should probably get that checked out. Being in a state of righteous rage doesn’t make you right.

  28. boy on a bike

    They should show this clip at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas.

  29. Gab

    You know Stephanie, I’m thinking about smashing your stupid face into the pavement with bloodied elbows right now.

    Ari while I completely understand the sentiment and why you feel this way, there’s no need for these sorts of threats. Think of the blog-owner, please.

  30. cohenite

    in fact Israeli leadership are happy with Hamas being there, since it lets them continue their land grabs and U.S. welfare dependency, knowing they have midgets like you proferring these red herrings to those who question them.

    That is terrible. The West Bank and Israel have arrangements. There is no possible arrangement with hamas because of its Charter. And because it is Iran’s proxy.

  31. Aristogeiton

    Stephan
    #1390374, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:41 pm
    [...]
    You should probably get that checked out. Being in a state of righteous rage doesn’t make you right.

    You know what. You’re right. That was over the top. Actually, I’m now thinking about murdering your family using a modified Russian rocket.

  32. .

    Stephan
    #1390354, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:34 pm
    They have missiles that fly by wire underground and do trench clearance do they?

    You godawful shit talking space cadet.

    Yeah, I’m sure it’s weapons caches that keep Israeli settlers building residential housing in Palestinian territory. Aggressively ignorant, you are.

    You take the high moral ground and support the disproportionate mass murder of civilians based on what most people acknowledge is Israel’s one diplomatic error.

    You’re a sickly moral midget, Stephan.

    Ariel Sharon’s policy of unilateral disengagment (including forced evacuation of Israeli settlements) did not end the terrorist attacks by Hamas. This is why Israel is back.

  33. Aristogeiton

    Gab
    #1390381, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:43 pm
    You know Stephanie, I’m thinking about smashing your stupid face into the pavement with bloodied elbows right now.

    Ari while I completely understand the sentiment and why you feel this way, there’s no need for these sorts of threats. Think of the blog-owner, please.

    Fair enough.

  34. .

    Stephan
    #1390370, posted on July 21, 2014 at 8:38 pm
    Dot, full stop, whatever, I’m aware of Hamas’ charter

    No you’re fucking not.

    They continued their terrorist activity after Sharon forced the evacuation of the settlements.

    You hate Israel because you are a useful idiot backing a proxy war that was fought by a country that no longer exists, and was the largest benefactor of your poisonous far left wing ideology.

  35. cohenite

    You hate Israel because you are a useful idiot

    Stephie is useful; I had no idea.

  36. bingbing

    Has Stephan read the Hamas charter?

  37. Stephan

    They continued their terrorist activity after Sharon forced the evacuation of the settlements.

    And that gave Netanyahu carte-blanche to start them up again, and refuse to evacuate them? No. The settlements and ethnic cleansing continue, if you hadn’t noticed.

    If Hamas attacks Israel, Israel should smash them. I’m all for it. But don’t use the attacks as a justification for the entirely unrelated and foul act of taking someone else’s land.

  38. cohenite

    What about the West Bank stephie? Come-on, you’ve been described as useful by good judges, so let’s hear it.

  39. .

    If Hamas attacks Israel, Israel should smash them. I’m all for it

    You’re an inveterate, degenerate liar.

    You accuse Israel of “ethnic cleansing” – what proof do you have, you imbecile?

  40. Peter from SA

    And that gave Netanyahu carte-blanche to start them up again, and refuse to evacuate them? No. The settlements and ethnic cleansing continue, if you hadn’t noticed.

    complete BS. There are Arabs in the state of Israel that live in perfect harmony with their Jewish colleagues. The “settlements” argument is simplistic crap. A two state solution was offered in the 1990s and the hardline Pali/Arab side couldn’t handle it. They chose war instead. It is that simple.

  41. candy

    There are people generally of older years with Stephan’s opinions on Jews, it’s not unusual even now. Cultural, based on stories passed down from mum and dad, and so on., as things go.

    The suicide teenage bomber from Sydney is a far more worrying scenario to Australians though.

  42. Infidel Tiger

    Steph, you’re a classic case of someone who has spent too long at university.

    You’ve broken your brain.

  43. bingbing

    No. Stephan has not read the Hamas charter. He continues to read this war through a leftist prism.

    Stephan, I implore you not to look at this with a left/right angle, or even in a case of national boundaries.

    Look at the Hamas charter. Then you will see why they do what they do and why Israel essentially has no other choice bar what they’re doing.

  44. But don’t use the attacks as a justification for the entirely unrelated and foul act of taking someone else’s land.

    What are you talking about?
    Hamas has used billions in aid money to build a network of tunnels that extend under Israel. How is that not an act of war? Why did they build those tunnels?
    Then they used the tunnels to abduct and kill three Israeli teenagers.

    The point of the IDF operation is to destroy the tunnels and destroy Hamas’ rocket collection.

  45. The settlements and ethnic cleansing continue, if you hadn’t noticed.

    Settlements are not ethnic cleansing.
    They are not the same thing at all.
    There is no ethnic cleansing going on. Within Israel are 1.5 million Arabs who vote and are basically just part of Israel society.

  46. Gab

    No. Stephan has not read the Hamas charter.

    Don’t believe he’s even watched the video above either. At over 5 minutes I doubt it can hold his attention for that length of time.

  47. watch the video, Stephan. Everything they say is true.

  48. bingbing

    When Mr Average Palestinian (dreaming if we suggest women’s rights) wakes up and starts questioning his leadership rather than just blaming Jews, then we’ll have progress.

    Until then, Israel has to do what it’s doing.

  49. bingbing

    Oh? Hasn’t Stephan cottoned on yet why Sinc posted that vid?

  50. C.L.

    Great spot, JB and Kae.

    And fantastic point, Sinclair.

    Wow.

    You’re right.

    This would be – well look, essentially is – banned from Australian airwaves and public discourse.

    This illustrates why Brandis and Abbott must utterly destroy 18C and, preferably, the whole left-wing ‘rights’ and ‘vilification’ apparatus – which were designed to shut down non-leftist views.

  51. .

    Brandis doesn’t care. He has his seat in Parliament and his pension sorted.

    He doesn’t care if you’re free.

  52. But don’t use the attacks as a justification for the entirely unrelated and foul act of taking someone else’s land.

    We are dealing with nations here. That’s what they do when they attack. We call it invasion. According to the previous owners, we pulled it off quite successfully here a couple hundred years back.

    Violence, in the end, resolves everything.

  53. bingbing

    Any lawyers here? Specifically which quotes would be banned?

  54. cynical1

    Meh.

    ISIS are far better at “ethnic cleasing”.

    They just put ‘em in a trench and shoot them through the head.

    Funnily enough, I haven’t seen the Western Left protest about this.

    Probably scared of being beheaded.

    Especially if they are gay….

  55. Stephan

    As well as standing by what I’ve said, I do broadly agree with Maher and his pals.

  56. bingbing

    When we start dealing with radical Islam as a caliphate-in-waiting rather than as individual nations as we so quaintly like to organise them, then we might be getting somewhere.

  57. .

    Stephan
    #1390508, posted on July 21, 2014 at 9:29 pm
    As well as standing by what I’ve said, I do broadly agree with Maher and his pals.

    What a load of placating bullshit.

  58. .

    bing – Hamas are nationalists, even if they are pawns of someone else.

  59. Funnily enough, I haven’t seen the Western Left protest about this.

    Well no, that would be counter productive. The left are the forces of discord, disorder, and degeneracy .

  60. Biota

    I can’t believe how one individual can so dominate a thread with so much look at moi rubbish.

  61. Stephan

    I can’t believe how one individual can so dominate a thread with so much look at moi rubbish.

    Easy enough to ignore me and move on. Something something personal responsibility…

  62. bingbing

    dot, only because every other Arab can’t stand them, either.

  63. nerblnob

    . There are Arabs in the state of Israel that live in perfect harmony with their Jewish colleagues.

    Exactly.

    I don’t blame Stephan for taking the view that he does, because the broadcast media (and social media) is relentlessly pushing the “evil Israel kills families” angle – and then searching for a plausible motive.

    I saw one Channel 4 report in the UK from a guy on the street in flak jacket and hard hat showing folk just standing around watching while the Israeli missiles did the first non-explosive warning hit then 10 minutes later the explosive hit on the targeted building .

    He did briefly touch on the fact that Hamas leaders don’t let unconnected civilians shelter in the tunnels, and that the Israeli timing and accuracy is so reliable, hence the seemingly casual way folk stand about and watch. There are no such warnings or careful targeting with Hamas rockets.

    And that’s the only report I’ve seen that shows anything but horror and dead children on the Gaza side, so no wonder my Facebook is full of “friends” fulminating against the awfulness of Israel.

  64. bingbing

    Those Facebook fulminators? Just hit ‘em with pizzadf.org. Sit back. Watch heads explode.

  65. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    A two state solution was offered in the 1990s and the hardline Pali/Arab side couldn’t handle it. They chose war instead.

    Ever since the partition of “Palestine’, anyone on the “Arab” side, who advocated any compromise with Israel, has been assassinated. From the heads of the “Palestinian” families in 1946, who wanted to accept the Jewish State, through King Abdullah, of Jordan, in 1951, to Anwar Sadat, who signed a peace treaty with Israel, all were murdered by the hardliners. “No recognition of Israel, No negotiation with Israel, No peace with Israel.”

    Ehud Barack offered a two State solution in 2000. Yasser Arafat rejected the offer for fear of being assassinated……….

  66. Clam Chowdah

    The Arab Initiative reflects a compromise position, ZK2A, so you’re not correct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

  67. Clam Chowdah

    Of course, Israel rejects it as it involves too much compromise on their part. Nonethless, compared to the Hamas “min al nahar ills al baht” position, it is a compromise since it allows Israel to exist as a legitimate state, as long as it gives up land.

  68. Clam Chowdah

    “min al nahar illa al bahar” From the river to the sea i.e.: the destruction of Israel.

  69. John Comnenus

    Stephan,

    Jews have lived in the Gaza area for 5000 years. In an attempt to have peace Israel unilaterally committed genocide of the Jews who continued that 5000 year history of living in Gaza. Israel cleansed Gaza of its last Jews by forcibly evicting the Gaza Jews, so that they could give land to the Palestinians in order to obtain peace. All they got in return is rockets.

    The only actual genocide i.e. Removing a whole population from an area has been the cleansing of Gaza of all it’s Jews. Arabs live in Gaza and the population keeps growing. Arabs live in Israel and the Arab-Israeli population keeps growing. Where is the Israeli genocide of any Arab?

  70. Aristogeiton

    John Comnenus
    #1390929, posted on July 22, 2014 at 7:00 am

    John, this is a great contribution. I fear that you credit Stephan with bona fides that he does not have.

  71. Roger

    In an attempt to have peace Israel unilaterally committed genocide of the Jews who continued that 5000 year history of living in Gaza.

    Removal of a population does not equate to genocide. Genocide is the destruction of a people through violence or prevention of reproduction. Jews in Gaza were resettled in Israel, not murdered. This debate is inflamed enough without misusing such emotive terms.

  72. Ivan Denisovich

    So why doesn’t Israel continue retaliation for rocket attacks (which is fair enough), while getting out (and staying out) of the Palestinian territories they’ve occupied?

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/israel-attacked-on-4-fronts-3-of-which-it-previously-withdrew-from-for-peace

  73. About Those ‘Innocent’ Palestinian Civilians: Gazans shelter terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside sofas and dirty diapers.

  74. Peter

    Has anyone mentioned the twin facts that:

    1. There is no historical “nation” of Palestine. Palestine has always been a region including Syria, Jordan and Lebanon … that has been under the domination of empires since Roman times. When British and French Mandated Palestine was divided up in 1949, something like 90% of it was given to the Arabs.

    2. The people now claiming to be “Palestinians” were not removed from “their” land by the Israelis. They (or their parents and grandparents) removed themselves under instruction from the surrounding Palestinian/Arab states that were embarking on the truly genocidal war with the clearly stated objective of wiping he small subsection of Palestine now called Israel, off the map.

    When a nation under existential threat from superior numbers refuses to let hostile people within the borders of land that is needed for national security, that is not genocide, that is self-defence.

  75. Roger

    Meanwhile, from an alternative universe.
    WARNING Western Self-Hatred Abounds.

  76. thefrollickingmole

    Ok religious history time.

    The war against Israel is a Islamic holy war.

    According to their desert survival guide and paedo prophet no land once becoming Muslim is allowed to become non Muslim.
    It really is that simple, any leader brokering a lasting peace with such a country is a heretic. (as long as its not a temporary truce to gather strength)

    “The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered; it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Muslim generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Muslim generations till Judgement Day?

    This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Muslims have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Muslims consecrated these lands to Muslim generations till the Day of Judgement.” (The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, 18 August 1988, Article Three)

    Now does our troll want to dispute that as a fact?

    The Palestinians are being held responsible for losing Islamic land, thats why they are treated as “special” in the Arab world and generally treated badly. They can only atone for this sin if Israel is wiped out.

    You dont see Germany lobbing rockets into Poland asking for Prussias Eastern provinces back (despite that being traditional German negotiating tactics) even though their “Nackba” happened withing a few years of the Palestinians.

    Peter

    Good point on the lack of any “palestine” prior to the creation of Israel, until the end of WW1 it was a non homogeneous blob of the moribund Caliphate in Constantinople..

    Speaking of which..

    One of the reasons proposed by the Greek government for launching the Asia Minor expedition was that there was a sizeable Greek-speaking Orthodox Christian population inhabiting Anatolia that needed protection. Greeks had lived in Asia Minor since antiquity, and before the outbreak of World War I, up to 2.5 million Greeks lived in the Ottoman Empire.[28] The suggestion that the Greeks constituted the majority of the population in the lands claimed by Greece has been contested by a number of historians. Cedric James Lowe and Michael L. Dockrill also argued that Greek claims about Smyrna were at best debatable, since Greeks constituted perhaps a bare majority, more likely a large minority in the Smyrna Vilayet, “which lay in an overwhelmingly Turkish Anatolia.”[29] Precise demographics are further obscured by the Ottoman policy of dividing the population according to religion rather than descent, language, or self-identification. On the other hand contemporaneous British and American statistics (1919) support the point that the Greek element was the most numerous in the region of Smyrna, counting 375,000, while Muslims were 325,000.[30][31]

    Nevertheless, the fear for the safety of the Greek population was a well-founded one. In 1915–1917, the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire enacted genocidal policies against the Christian minorities in the Ottoman Empire, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Armenians and Assyrians. While the Armenian Genocide is the best known of these events, there was also a Greek Genocide in Pontus, the former Russian south Caucasaus province of Kars Oblast in northeastern Anatolia, and those parts of western and central Anatolia with historic Greek communities. Greek Prime Minister Venizelos stated to a British newspaper that “Greece is not making war against Islam, but against the anachronistic Ottoman Government, and its corrupt, ignominious, and bloody administration, with a view to expelling it from those territories where the majority of the population consists of Greeks”

    Waiting for the Greeks to start shelling Turkey again… A near identical situation.

  77. thefrollickingmole

    Roger..

    Vile little site that one..

    But now, thinking about it, you could also say that Israel is now the Jimmy Savile of nation states, it clearly doesn’t care about damaging the lives of children, it thinks that everybody else is in the wrong, and it is endlessly in the right.

  78. Paul

    What “welfare” does Israel get off America?

    Oh, billions of dollars, weapons systems, access to pretty much all US intelligence (Which they’ve sold to America’s enemies in the past) but apart from that, oh nothing much.

  79. .

    Israel’s only hope is to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah, along with any Syrian or Iranian “advisers” and help to liberate Lebanon and Palestine indirectly.

    A reasonable middle ought to emerge. The best they can do until then is hold firm/follow a policy of containment and integration.

    The longest war in history was fought for 130 years.

    I don’t think the fanatics have got it in the tank to go out to 2078. Radicalism wasn’t always the norm in the Mid East. Lebanon and Syria were once quite decadent.

  80. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The Arab Initiative reflects a compromise position, ZK2A, so you’re not correct.

    That’s what happens when your memory lets you down. BTW wasn’t there another “two State” solution rejected as recently as 2008?

  81. .

    Oh, billions of dollars, weapons systems, access to pretty much all US intelligence (Which they’ve sold to America’s enemies in the past) but apart from that, oh nothing much.

    They pay for everything they get. Carter embargoed them. This is not “welfare”.

  82. cohenite

    OT but a pity there aren’t some like him involved in this mess, James garner passed yesterday. Support your Local Sherriff; just terrific.

  83. rebel with cause

    weapons systems, access to pretty much all US intelligence

    Helping Israel defend itself is welfare? Words fail me at the double standard.

  84. CameronH

    Meanwhile in Australia the ALP want to shift their policy more to the support of people like Hamas and away from Israel. The ultimate populist and opportunist Bob Carr is the main architect. Keep on the job Bob and maybe you can destroy the Labor party like you destroyed NSW.

  85. alexis

    while getting out (and staying out) of the Palestinian territories they’ve occupied?

    I’m opposed to the settlements and think they were a horrible own goal, but Israel withdrew from Gaza completely, needed thousands of soldiers to pull out the settlers, and Gaza is more of an enemy than ever. The current war isn’t even really against Israel, Hamas actually want the Egyptian crossing opened, the Israeli corridors for supply are still functioning (even during the war).

    The reality is that if Gazan Palestinians had their priorities in order, Gaza could be a successful place. They are in a strategic position, there is work available in Southern Israel, they have beautiful beaches, even luxury hotels. I know from experience in the 90s that they are loyal, hard workers given the chance. But they elect leaders who literally have a death wish.

  86. alexis

    Oh, billions of dollars, weapons systems, access to pretty much all US intelligence (Which they’ve sold to America’s enemies in the past) but apart from that, oh nothing much.

    Hey, the Gazans would have far more ‘welfare’ from Iran and Syria, if:
    -their sponsors weren’t murderous regimes involved in horrific wars that distract them from their clients
    -Gaza didn’t focus its attention on wars with Israel necessitating blockades and a military embargo
    -not to mention that if/when they stop blowing their money on corruption and tunnels they could develop their own technology like Israel has – the Iron Dome was thought up by a small team at Technion

  87. 1234

    For those who think the Arabs in Israel are treated equally, they can’t serve in the IDF, service in which is then an entree to employment in the wider economy. I am all for a one state solution. The establishment of so many settlements in the occupied territories has created the “facts on the ground”. Goodbye Jewish state.
    Meanwhile in Gaza, I would have thought the libertarians on this site might have some time for people who live with a multitude of restrictions on their lives that are imposed by Israel through the blockade – restrictions on movement, no fishing offshore, import/export of goods etc. No wonder they revolt.

  88. cohenite

    Meanwhile in Gaza, I would have thought the libertarians on this site might have some time for people who live with a multitude of restrictions on their lives that are imposed by Israel

    That’s bullshit; hamas does the imposing on its citizens not Israel.

  89. Gab

    For those who think the Arabs in Israel are treated equally, they can’t serve in the IDF,

    Oh really?

    National military service is mandatory for all Israeli citizens over the age of 18, although Arab (but not Druze) citizens are exempted if they so please, and other exceptions may be made on religious, physical or psychological grounds (see Profile 21).

  90. 1234

    “Necessitating blockades and a military embargo” – the beatings will continue until morale improves. Israel is the one who defines whether a blockade is imposed without reference to the Palestinians or any others – power without accountability.

  91. Gab

    1234

    The hate appears to be strong in this one ^.

    It just keeps on posting without bothering to read anything as though what it posts is the the truth, the poor delusional sod.

  92. alexis

    For those who think the Arabs in Israel are treated equally, they can’t serve in the IDF, service in which is then an entree to employment in the wider economy. I am all for a one state solution. The establishment of so many settlements in the occupied territories has created the “facts on the ground”. Goodbye Jewish state.
    Meanwhile in Gaza, I would have thought the libertarians on this site might have some time for people who live with a multitude of restrictions on their lives that are imposed by Israel through the blockade – restrictions on movement, no fishing offshore, import/export of goods etc. No wonder they revolt.

    Don’t you know it all.
    Arabs are not obliged to serve. But they are completely free to volunteer. There is currently an Arab major. Bedouin units are particularly prominent. Participation in the army is a requisite for security clearance but not otherwise required for employment, and keep in mind that many Israeli Arabs live in their own towns and cities and wouldn;t require the approval of non-Arabs anyway.
    They should be able to fish.
    But no import/export? Are you joking? It all goes through border crossings with Israel. They even have well-stocked supermarkets and hotels would you believe.

  93. 1234

    Cohenite – you show how narrow is your concern about liberty – no appreciation of liberty at the individual level and a reflex response to just blame Hamas. Miserable. It is Israel that imposes restrictions on movement including to the west bank.

  94. cohenite

    There are no restrictions on the Westbank apart from standard customs procedures. Tell me this numbers, do you support hamas?

  95. .

    1234
    #1391025, posted on July 22, 2014 at 10:15 am
    For those who think the Arabs in Israel are treated equally, they can’t serve in the IDF

    Bullshit. They don’t have to sign up like everyone else.

    Just stop right there. There are Druze, Bedouin and Christian Arabs in the IDF.

    We will not have your shit rain of full specturm lies, you snivelling little bullshit artist.

    What is your agenda? To push the foreign policy of the defunct USSR? To support Hamas and Hezbollah whilst the Palestinians, Israelis and Lebanese suffer?

    You’re either an anti semite or pro terrorist.

  96. Gab

    The egregious lies this “1234″ carries on with is mind-boggling and even when the truth is presented he/she/it just ignores it and blithely continues with the lies. Abysmal and pathetic.

  97. 1234

    My hate is strong for hypocritical faux libertarians who argue that because of Hamas the rights of the million of so in Gaza are suspended.

  98. 1234

    There are restrictions moving from Gaza to the west bank and changing your residence.

  99. Aristogeiton

    Gab
    #1391030, posted on July 22, 2014 at 10:18 am
    [...]
    Oh really?

    Thanks Gab. I might have believed this like a gullible asshole.

  100. Aristogeiton

    1234
    #1391051, posted on July 22, 2014 at 10:37 am
    My hate is strong for hypocritical faux libertarians who argue that because of Hamas the rights of the million of so in Gaza are suspended.

    Libertarians don’t use the language of ‘rights’; you are mistaken.

  101. Tom

    The hate appears to be strong in this one ^.

    It just keeps on posting without bothering to read anything

    Fucktards just love coming to the Cat to conduct retarded conversations with themselves about their most cherished delusions without being banned, Gab. There’s not a single site in leftdom that tolerates violation of The Narrative.

  102. Aristogeiton

    Tom has a point. Stephan, 1234 &c. Why the fuck does anyone (including me) respond to this bullshit? I know there were a bunch of commenters defending Stephanie last night. Why? He just wants to appear superior. He’s not here to engage.

  103. rebel with cause

    For those who think the Arabs in Israel are treated equally, they can’t serve in the IDF, service in which is then an entree to employment in the wider economy.

    You couldn’t be more wrong. Col. Rassan Alian, an IDF Druze Battalion Commander, was wounded in northern Gaza two days ago. 13 of the troops under his command died. Why were they there? Because that area is the source of at least 10 tunnels and more than 140 rocket attacks on Israel.

    It is reported that Alian is eager to get back to his troops despite the fact that he leaves a wife and three children aged 10, 6, and 4 behind.

    Israel is at war. Its soldiers are bit putting themselves in harms way for kicks.

  104. rebel with cause

    *Israel is at war. Its soldiers are not putting themselves in harms way for kicks.

  105. stackja

    Israel can vote to stop their army doing its job. Who votes against Hamas?

  106. 1234

    Indeed, Israel is at war bombing hospitals now.

  107. Stephan

    The Israeli use of flechette rounds and white phosphorous really gives the lie to the their talk of ‘tactical strikes’ that are totally ‘not war crimes’.

  108. Gab

    Remember, last week Israel agreed to an Egyptian-negotiated cease-fire but then Hamas started firing rockets into Israel about an hour after the cease-fire came into effect. Hamas has no intention of peace until all the Jews are dead and Israel ceases to exist, as is written in Hamas’ charter. And this is the murderous regime the leftards slavishly support, naturally.

  109. thefrollickingmole

    flechette rounds: Standard round used by the Australian tankies as well.
    white phosphorous : Booga booga, white phosphorous, used as a smoke round I believe.

    What you really mean is “Its not fair, Jews arent allowing themselves to be killed by their numerically superior enemy”

  110. Aristogeiton

    White phosphorous is not a chemical weapon, and its use is not a war crime. For those confused.

  111. rebel with cause

    Hamas can’t be accused of ‘targeting’. They don’t care what they hit as long as it kills as many Jews as possible. That’s the kind of ‘indiscriminate firing’ the left really gets behind.

  112. Aristogeiton

    thefrollickingmole
    #1391111, posted on July 22, 2014 at 11:25 am
    [...]
    What you really mean is “Its not fair, Jews arent allowing themselves to be killed by their numerically superior enemy”

    Exactly. These people are scum.

  113. cohenite

    Israel gives notice of its targets so people can leave; hamas orders those people to return to their houses.

    Israel builds bomb shelters for its people, hamas builds tunnels and buys rockets.

    Hamas gets support and is indeed a proxy for iran. End of story really.

  114. Aristogeiton

    cohenite
    #1391145, posted on July 22, 2014 at 11:49 am
    Israel gives notice of its targets so people can leave; hamas orders those people to return to their houses.

    Israel builds bomb shelters for its people, hamas builds tunnels and buys rockets.

    Hamas gets support and is indeed a proxy for iran. End of story really.

    Somebody posted an amazing video of their method if hitting these targets (can you re-post?). They strike first with an empty shell and then follow up a minute later with a live one.

  115. Paul

    “Hamas can’t be accused of ‘targeting’. They don’t care what they hit as long as it kills as many Jews as possible. That’s the kind of ‘indiscriminate firing’ the left really gets behind.”

    How many have they killed? Hundreds?

  116. rebel with cause

    How many have they killed?

    Clearly not enough for your liking. Hamas will have to redouble its Jew killing efforts.

  117. Aristogeiton

    rebel with cause
    #1391164, posted on July 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm
    How many have they killed?

    Clearly not enough for your liking. Hamas will have to redouble its Jew killing efforts.

    These people are immoral pigs.

  118. notafan

    What a pity Israelis simply cannot buy all the land in the disputed territories.
    I caught a bit of a Louis Theroux doco where the Aussie accented Israeli was being roundly abused by an Arab neighbour in, I think, West Jerusalem. This was over some tables and chairs that the Arab had sold and then claimed to be stolen.

  119. notafan

    The piece upthread about what ever has been muslim land must again be muslim land also means places like southern Spain, Portugal, Malta, Sicily etc are also in their sights.

    This war will never end.

  120. JakartaJaap

    The Gazans voted for Hamas. They voted for the destruction of Israel. Karma.

  121. Roger

    The piece upthread about what ever has been muslim land must again be muslim land also means places like southern Spain, Portugal, Malta, Sicily etc are also in their sights.

    I believe that’s what the ISIS Caliph has decreed, nota.
    Some sympathisers in certain parts of western Sydney think it applies there as well!

  122. stackja

    A few more quotes from:

    The Roar of Lions: The Asymmetric Campaigns of Muhammad
    Russell G. Rodgers

    Arabia in the sixth and seventh centuries developed largely in the shadows of two massive empires: the Byzantine to the northwest and the Persian, known at that time as the Sassanid, to the northeast.

    With his marriage into a good family and access to his wife’s wealth, Muhammad was able to develop an economic and political base for himself.

    Muhammad placed his hand on the back of Ali’s neck and said that the young man would be his brother and successor. The latter in Arabic is khalifa, and thus was laid the seeds of the later Sunni-Shi’ia controversy. When the elders heard this, they turned to Abu Talib in astonishment and said, “He has commanded you to listen to your son and to obey him!” These elders understood exactly what Islam meant, being the submission tendered first and foremost to the man Muhammad.

  123. stackja

    MSM show Hamas photos of ‘hospitals’. Pallywood again?

  124. thefrollickingmole

    notafan

    Dont forget a large chunk of India as well.

    Theres also a few of the Aussie nutbag wanna be Jihadis who try and push the line Aboriginals were Islamic (Northern anyway) to justify Australia as “theirs”.

    All peace treaties with radical Islam are temporary until they are in a position of strength.

  125. 1234

    Indeed Israel has no intention of peace until they have occupied and settled all habitable land in Palestine

  126. Aristogeiton

    1234
    #1391223, posted on July 22, 2014 at 12:58 pm
    Indeed Israel has no intention of peace until they have occupied and settled all habitable land in Palestine

    HAHAHAHAHAHAAH! HAHAHAHAHAH! Priceless!

  127. tomix


    How many have they killed? Hundreds?

    Errr.. none, I think.

    But no matter. As is commanded in the Book of Netanyahu: Let the smiting commence!

  128. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    What a pity Israelis simply cannot buy all the land in the disputed territories.

    What’s usually overlooked is that a high percentage of Israel actually stands on land purchased outright by the settlers – absentee landlords in Cairo and Damascus had no problem dispossessing their peasant tenants in exchange for well above the going price of land, paid for with gold.

  129. stackja

    thefrollickingmole
    #1391214, posted on July 22, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Again:

    The Roar of Lions: The Asymmetric Campaigns of Muhammad
    Russell G. Rodgers

    In making the Second Pledge of Aqabah, the tribal leaders of these two groups told Muhammad that making the covenant with him would require that they break their treaties with the major Jewish tribes in Madinah. Muhammad concurred and supported this action, information that was apparently kept from the Jewish tribal leaders.

  130. tomix

    Aristogeiton @ 11.26am

    White phosphorous is not a chemical weapon, and its use is not a war crime. For those confused.

    Duuno about that claim, but I remember an Icelander who had been hit by phosphorus tipped bullets in the Winter War of 1940.
    That phosphorus was still burning it’s way round his system in 1984.

  131. .

    1234 the undergraduate pro terrorist, anti semite continues to pump put broad spectrum bullshit:

    Indeed Israel has no intention of peace until they have occupied and settled all habitable land in Palestine

    Sure. This is why the former general, Ariel Sharon, withdrew to the green line and began building the wall. So he could occupy the West Bank.

    You probably need help by way of a therapist or strong psychotropic drugs, 1234.

  132. cohenite

    Is 1234 numbers or another set of nonsense numbers?

  133. notafan

    In the last two weeks
    One Israeli civilian killed in a missile strike at a petrol station, 13 Israeli soldiers killed.
    Millions in fear from rocket attack. Iron Dome stops most, not all.
    At least two ground attacks against Israeli civilians were thwarted, one from the sea, one from the tunnel network.
    If Hamas needs to use Palliwood style fake footage, recycled footage including footage from Syria, horror movie stills and footage of a little boy killed by an Hamas misfire in 2012 how much credibility can they have.
    Palestinians used to be able to work in relative freedom in Israel , until too many suicide bombers made that difficult.
    I see no possibility of a negotiated peace unless Hamas run out of money and resources. Egypt can starve them of these, perhaps.

  134. notafan

    That phosphorus was still burning it’s way round his system in 1984

    44 years? No offence but that doesn’t seem to indicate phosphurus being used as a WMD really.

  135. tomix

    44+ years. Phosphorus stops the blood from clotting, and it never stops burning.

  136. Aristogeiton

    tomix
    #1391270, posted on July 22, 2014 at 1:24 pm
    44+ years. Phosphorus stops the blood from clotting, and it never stops burning.

    The white phosphorous was used in smoke shells, not incendiary ammunition. I’m not going to comment on any of the rest.

  137. tomix

    Sure. The smoke bomb bursts, and down comes the white phosphorus, onto peoples skin and into their breathing system.

  138. notafan

    Tomix I should be clear I understand that phosporous is a poison but if Israel were using WMD as claimed thousands would be dying. That is not happening and, in addition, Hamas are using propaganda photos that is being readily refuted.

  139. Aristogeiton

    tomix
    #1391293, posted on July 22, 2014 at 1:40 pm
    Sure. The smoke bomb bursts, and down comes the white phosphorus, onto peoples skin and into their breathing system.

    I would like some reference for the claim that you made that:

    Phosphorus stops the blood from clotting, and it never stops burning [for more than 44 years].

  140. cohenite

    What pro Hamas supporters are saying

    Fuck me.

  141. tomix

    From the Mail on Sunday:

    It causes skin to melt away from the bone and can break down a victim’s jawbone, but white phosphorus – known in Vietnam as Willie Pete – is still used by sections of the world’s military.


    </em
    Banned?
    While the use of the material is not specifically banned, it is covered by Protocol III of the 1980 Convention on Conventional Weapons, which prohibits use of the substance as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-368800/White-phosphorus-burns-bone.html

    <

  142. Aristogeiton

    Right. So, no evidence to back your extraordinary claim. And evidence to back mine: that’s it is not a prohibited chemical weapon.

  143. Gab

    The smoke bomb bursts, and down comes the white phosphorus, onto peoples skin and into their breathing system.

    Damn those Irish nuns are at it again.

  144. tomix

    Aristogeiton:

    blood vessels become fragile and blood stops clotting properly, resulting in bleeding into the skin, mucous membranes, and various organs;

    ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: White phosphorus can be absorbed into the body by inhalation, ingestion, or skin contact. It is unknown whether systemic exposure can occur from eye contact.

    It is used by the military in various types of ammunition as an incendiary agent (because it spontaneously catches fire in air) and as a smoke agent (because it produces clouds of irritating white smoke).
    From: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_29750025.html

  145. thefrollickingmole

    tomix
    Had a look for a paper on white phosphorous, nasty stuff, but as a smoke it requires massive (really large) amounts to harm a person.

    But its irrelevant anyway.

    IDF to stop using phosphorus for smokescreens

    Smokescreen artillery shells containing white phosphorus “are to be removed from active duty soon” and replaced by Israeli-developed alternatives “based completely on gas” around a year from now, the IDF said, without giving details.

    Damn those sneaky Jewish chaps and their science…
    /sarc

  146. tomix

    So it’s irrelevant that it’ll be used on people for the next 12 months, at least?

    Is that what you’re saying?

  147. 1234

    Yea, the wall. Constructed on Palestinian territory, settlements on Palestinian territory – sure Israel wants peace. No it wants land.

  148. stackja

    Hamas hammers nail 1st 2nd 3rd 4th time.

  149. notafan

    Smokescreen artillery shells

    Israel advise civilians to get out of the areas it is targetting. It uses smokescreens to protect it’s ground forces.
    Should it not protect its troops?

    According to the anti Israelis, it isn’t fair that Israel protects its citizens and Hamas does not. And it is all Israel’s fault.

  150. Gab

    According to the likes of toemx and 1234, not enough Jews are dead.

  151. thefrollickingmole

    tomix

    If its used as smoke, then medical literature says it has no known health effects unless is an incredibly high dosage.

    If its used against combatants as it stands I believe that is legal. (I havent time to check that properly now, so please check if Im wrong there) It was used to remove scrub hiding entrenched Hamas fighters, which was legal, whereas using it directly against them may not have been (law bullshit and semantics but still)

    The whole “war crimes” bit comes about when civilians are injured by the solids of WP in a deliberate manner, difficult to prove.

    In effect Israel is removing a legal, effective munition because it has been demonised by the usual suspects.

    The bit waaay up in the post about “flechette” rounds is the beginning of another “denormalization” of a millitary advantage via popular opinion.

  152. stackja

    Hamas is seeking a “Final Solution”.

  153. tomix

    If its used as smoke, then medical literature says it has no known health effects unless is an incredibly high dosage.

    Not hard to get “an incredibly high dosage ” of smoke.
    If one’s still breathing, that is.

  154. 1234

    The problem that far too many innocents are dead. They just happen to be Palestinian women and children. But the instrumentalism of those on this site just see it as some minor cost.

  155. tomix

    So, if it’s used as “smoke”, no worries. Used as a weapon- worries.

    Got it.

  156. Infidel Tiger

    If white phosphorous takes 44+ years to kill you then I think we can put it in the same basket as death by passive smoking – complete bullshit.

  157. 1234

    The IDF is simply polite – in the middle of dinner you get a call – five minutes to get out then they level your house. What is there to complain about?

  158. tomix

    The problem that far too many innocents are dead

    What would be an acceptable number of dead innocents, in your opinion?

  159. Gab

    Yes, that’s right, 1234 is saying it would be better if the IDF issued no warnings at all and maximised the damage.

  160. 1234

    Tomix – nil. And you?

  161. rebel with cause

    The problem that far too many innocents are dead. They just happen to be Palestinian women and children. But the instrumentalism of those on this site just see it as some minor cost.

    Nobody here is celebrating the death of innocents. We just refuse to attribute those deaths to Jewish maliciousness. Israel does its utmost to avoid civilian fatalities, but when Hamas terrorists insist on hiding among civilians then those deaths will happen. The alternative is to let Hamas fire on Israel with impunity.

  162. The IDF is simply polite – in the middle of dinner you get a call – five minutes to get out then they level your house. What is there to complain about?

    If you’ve got a stack of rockets in the bathroom and a rocket launcher in the back yard, then I don’t see what there is to complain about about being the target of a military operation.

  163. Gab

    Hamas terrorists insist on hiding among civilians then those deaths will happen. The alternative is to let Hamas fire on Israel with impunity.

    The UN – yes the UN – was this week horrified to find Hamas hiding their bombs in a school.

  164. The problem that far too many innocents are dead. They just happen to be Palestinian women and children.

    Well then, why does Hamas store its weaponry – and place entrances to tunnels – in and around schools and hospitals? Why does it use its women and children as human shields when the Israelis are attacking?
    Surely they would want to minimise casualties right? If so, why do these things?

  165. 1234

    I attribute it to Israeli maliciousness not jewish.

  166. .

    1234
    #1391338, posted on July 22, 2014 at 2:18 pm
    Yea, the wall. Constructed on Palestinian territory, settlements on Palestinian territory – sure Israel wants peace. No it wants land.

    15,000 hectares out of 622,000 hectares and it has permanently lowered the number of terrorist attacks? Israel also gave up the settlements roughly at this time.

    You’re a myopic, obsessed loon, 1234.

  167. tomix

    Infidel Tiger:

    From the link @ 2.13pm-
    EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM (LESS THAN 8-HOURS) EXPOSURE: White phosphorus burns in air and causes severe burns upon contact with skin or eyes. White phosphorus smoke will also cause eye and respiratory tract irritation. Other initial adverse health effects are primarily due to gastrointestinal irritation.

  168. .

    EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM (LESS THAN 8-HOURS) EXPOSURE: White phosphorus burns in air and causes severe burns upon contact with skin or eyes. White phosphorus smoke will also cause eye and respiratory tract irritation. Other initial adverse health effects are primarily due to gastrointestinal irritation.

    8 hours = 44 years?

    Stop reading Pravda.ru, FFS

  169. stackja

    Hamas hammer 1234 says Israeli people are malicious.

  170. Nanuestalker

    Smaller spud -
    Stop reciting crap from the Goldstone report. Gaza is an occuppied territory except you fail to realise that Hamas is the occupying force not the IDF. If you really gave a shit about the children you’d be chastising Hamas for using them as a human shield. You will only free the people of Gaza if Hamas is wiped out.

  171. notafan

    far too many innocents are dead.

    Of course we don’t want innocents to die. What a load of rubbish. Yet every death in Gaza is counted as a civilian death.
    Do those rockets launch themselves?
    I don’t believe that Gazans necessarily want to have rockets in their loungerooms and some must do under threat from Hamas. Israel is absolutely doing the right thing to give warnings even when that allows terrorists to also escape.
    Remember the cleansing of Fattah supporters in 2006 ?
    Hamas does not have any respect for the lives of its people.
    Look at how they paraded the body of a four year old in 2012 as a victim of Israel when he was really the victim of a Hamas rocket misfire.
    Remember the death of an Australian 13 year old in the suicide attack of a pizza parlour and the dead babies in strollers across the street?
    Israel does not post gruesome photos of her death babies on the internet.
    Gazan innocents would not die if Hamas did not fire rockets into Israel, kidnap and murder her children.

  172. thefrollickingmole

    tomix

    Like I pointed out, using it in mortar rounds to clear the scrub around hiding fighters is ok, but no-one seriously thinks it wouldnt affect the fighters as well.

    Its legal bull, if its a weapon used against combatants then generally its ok,

    You may not like it, but thats the rules oin that one.

    And yes, the amounts of smoke to produce a medical emergency are huge.

    Couple of references.
    Link 1
    Inhalation of white phosphorus smoke is presumed to be the least severe form of exposure, as it has not been shown to cause casualties. It may result in irritation to the eyes and nose and may cause a violent cough. However, prolonged exposure to the gas does have the potential to cause death.

    Link2
    Effects on the Respiratory Tract
    The most sensitive toxic response to acute exposure (one exposure or multiple
    exposures occurring within a short time, usually 24 hours or less) to white phosphorus
    smoke is respiratory irritation and distress. Nasal and throat irritation, cough,
    tightness of chest and dyspnoea were observed in human volunteers after acute
    exposure to white phosphorus smoke (White and Armstrong 1935, Cullumbine 1944).
    There were also several case reports of acute bronchitis and laryngitis following acute
    exposure to white phosphorus smoke.
    No definite evidence of permanent respiratory sequelae was identified in the literature
    but this does not appear to have been adequately studied.
    The US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (1997) commented that
    exposure to high concentrations of white phosphorus smoke would likely be fatal to
    humans, based on deaths in animals.

    WP solids are easily fatal (on the skin etc) but not so the smoke. A lot of swampy propaganda willfully mixes up the solid/smoke to make it sound like mustard gas or something.

  173. rebel with cause

    I attribute it to Israeli maliciousness not jewish.

    Yeah, yeah. You’re not an anti-semite but you just don’t think Israel should exist. Gotcha.

  174. tomix

    8 hours = 44 years?

    8 Hours exposure. You can read, can’t you?

  175. John Comnenus

    What the convention on Genocide says:

    ‘Article 2

    In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
    (a) Killing members of the group;
    (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.’

    Seems like the Jews of Gaza have been destroyed as a religious identity.

    And of course we know that the Hamas Charter wants to kill all the Jews or expel them from their ancient homeland. That is destroy them as a religious identity. But alas, no one cares about the genocidal intent of Hamas.

  176. tomix

    thefrollickingmole :

    The US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (1997) commented that
    exposure to high concentrations of white phosphorus smoke would likely be fatal to
    humans, based on deaths in animals.

    And
    No definite evidence of permanent respiratory sequelae was identified in the literature
    but this does not appear to have been adequately studied.

    Did you bother to tead your own link before posting?

  177. Ivan Denisovich

    The problem that far too many innocents are dead. They just happen to be Palestinian women and children. But the instrumentalism of those on this site just see it as some minor cost.

    Five reasons why comparing Israeli and Palestinian death totals is a misleading way to judge the conflict:

    http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2550930

  178. thefrollickingmole

    tomix

    High concentrations, massive in actual fact are needed to produce those effects. All testing so far has been done on animals, but many, many thousands of servicemen have been exposed all over the world with no recorded fatalities, that suggest anything to you? Also apparently no long term effects either.

    And because you cant into definitions heres a definition on that complicated medical word you obviously didnt understand.

    Sequela: A pathological condition resulting from a prior disease, injury, or attack. As for example, a sequela of polio. Verbatim from the Latin “sequela” (meaning sequel). Plural: sequelae.

    I posted an “honest” article stating no known long term medical effects connected to inhaling the smoke and you are using the “more studies needed” part as a rebuttal?
    Piss poor effort, 1/10.

  179. Gab

    Funny but I never heard a peep out of tomix and little numbers when three Israeli boys were kidnapped and killed by “palestinians”. Guess that was aok by them.

  180. 1234

    15,000 hectares – gee its easy to give it away when its not yours. And this site rants that tax = theft. Give me a break. If they want a wall they can use their own land.
    Oh yea, every one of those houses and hospitals must have been harbouring rockets. Perhaps we should institute that policy for all weapons held by Israel and used against Gaza. They have certainly proved to be more deadly.

  181. thefrollickingmole

    Found the original PDF on the effects of the smoke.

    White Phosphorus Smoke. No deaths were observed in humans exposed to concentrations as high as 592 mg phosphorus pentoxide equivalents/m3 (817 mg orthophosphoric acid equivalents/m3) for 3.5 minutes or 514 mg phosphoruspentoxide/m3 (709 mg orthophosphoric acid equivalents/m3) for 15 minutes (White and Armstrong 1935).
    Rats, mice, guinea pigs, and goats have died following acute-duration exposures to white phosphorus smoke… (lots of dosages and info following)

    Apparently the literature says if it doesnt kill you immediately (or short duration) there is no long term effects.
    As they seem to lack any smoke caused casualties you would deduce what tomix?

    Again, really massive amounts to produce easily diagnosed symptoms.

    The increased mortality may have been the result of the severe
    respiratory tract damage that was observed, most likely due to cerebral asphyxiation (the nares of the animals were plugged with a heavy mucous discharge). Respiration was obstructed through irritation and swelling of the mucous membranes lining the very small and constricted upper respiratory passages
    2. HEALTH EFFECTS

    (White and Armstrong 1935). This rapid death from acute exposure to the smoke was not observed in rats or goats because of their larger upper respiratory tracts. However, much higher smoke concentrations were necessary to produce asphyxial death in rats. In goats, with even larger respiratory tracts, relatively enormous concentrations were required to cause asphyxial symptoms. As in the mice, the same white mucous secretion was seen around their noses and mouths

    You think Pallywood wouldnt be beaming images like that to the world??

  182. 1234

    Gazans will be under the boot of Israel, Hamas or not. Israel doesn’t want peace it want land and if little bandustans are the price so be it. The nutter right in Israel is no better than Hamas i.e. it all belongs to them, well because that was how it is in the bible.

  183. Infidel Tiger

    They have certainly proved to be more deadly.

    It’s not the Israelis fault the Palis are incompetent retards. Perhaps if they want a fair fight against people who’ve “stolen” their land they can send their rockets towards Jordan.

  184. notafan

    If Israel wanted the land they would buy it. Much cheaper than maintaining the IDF , Iron Dome etc etc etc

  185. Gab

    Israel doesn’t want peace it want land

    Yes, yes, and that’s why Israel got out of Gaza in 2005…becuase they want land. The stupidity, it burns.

    It’s not the Israelis fault the Palis are incompetent retards.

    Incompetent retards that receive billions each year in aid, including from the US and Israel. What have they done with all that money? Certainly not built shelters or sophisticated defense systems.

  186. notafan

    Darn it, frollicking, though the text indicates that land is sold as death sentences have not been carried out.

    I go back to assuming a constant state of war with some periods of decreased activity with perhaps Hamas getting a shellacking this time and the Israelis developing new tech to locate tunnel building activities.
    I still have hopes of Egypt making things more difficult for Hamas.

  187. .

    1234
    #1391438, posted on July 22, 2014 at 3:24 pm
    15,000 hectares – gee its easy to give it away when its not yours. And this site rants that tax = theft. Give me a break. If they want a wall they can use their own land.

    So you’re a Pali? No? Stop talking shit. They gave them back the settlements and stopped most terrorist attacks.

  188. 1234

    And you’re not a shill for the Zionists. Or are you Israeli?

  189. Aristogeiton

    Gab
    #1391454, posted on July 22, 2014 at 3:40 pm
    Israel doesn’t want peace it want land

    Yes, yes, and that’s why Israel got out of Gaza in 2005…becuase they want land. The stupidity, it burns.

    Lol.

  190. Aristogeiton

    1234
    #1391469, posted on July 22, 2014 at 4:03 pm
    And you’re not a shill for the Zionists. Or are you Israeli?

    Are you a cun’t? Sorry. I meant to say: you are a cun’t.

  191. Aristogeiton

    thefrollickingmole
    #1391443, posted on July 22, 2014 at 3:28 pm
    [...]
    Apparently the literature says if it doesnt kill you immediately (or short duration) there is no long term effects.

    What? But it never stops burning, even after 42+ years! Are you implying that trailmix was talking out of his stupid arse?

  192. Ms Dolittle

    oh look, how cute – it’s a mini me numbers.

  193. .

    1234
    #1391469, posted on July 22, 2014 at 4:03 pm
    And you’re not a shill for the Zionists. Or are you Israeli?

    I want Israel to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah, so that Palestine, Lebanon and Israel can be free. Because I’m a hell of a guy.

  194. Aristogeiton

    1234
    #1391469, posted on July 22, 2014 at 4:03 pm
    And you’re not a shill for the Zionists. Or are you Israeli?

    No, you’re right. Only a national of a country under constant attack from a neighbour who wants to kill every citizen within its borders and without could possibly think some measure of self-defence is morally justified.

  195. Aristogeiton

    Wait. Do I need a /sarc tag for that to avert a collective pants-shitting?

  196. .

    I can’t believe how 1234 ignores the exterminationist, Jihadist, Hamas Charter, then doesn’t think getting rid of the settlements for 15,000 ha to fence off Israel and blunt most terrorist attacks isn’t a fair compromise.

    Israel must be perfect, then the evil that Hamas and Hezbollah practice can be considered? WTF!

    This is totally callous towards any Palestinians or Lebanese they kill or boss around day to day.

  197. thefrollickingmole

    notafan
    Its been similar through most of the history of the region, though there have been times (Ottoman era) when large tracts of land were sold in whats now Israel.

    Once the Zionist movement gained some steam there came fatwas and laws to prevent sales.

    It never moved on from there.

    Also note the name of the county whos laws applied to the area.. See “Palestine” there??

    Israel was effectively created out of a chunk of Jordan, “Palestinian” is the name given to those who sinned by allowing Muslim land to fall into infidel hands.

  198. notafan

    Pity the French and British didn’t do a better job of carving up the Ottoman then. I read that a lot of the Pallies moved out in 67 expecting the Arabs to destroy Israel and reap the spoils but it didn’t work out that way.

  199. Gab

    Israel was effectively created out of a chunk of Jordan, “Palestinian” is the name given to those who sinned by allowing Muslim land to fall into infidel hands.

    I read that a lot of the Pallies moved out in 67 expecting the Arabs to destroy Israel and reap the spoils but it didn’t work out that way.

    And nobody wanted the ‘pallis’ either. Certainly not Jordan and still to this day are camped out in Jordanian “refugee” camps.

    More than 1,000 Palestinians who fled from the violence in Syria and were hoping to find temporary shelter in Jordan, have been stranded along the border between Syria and Jordan for the past few weeks. The Jordanian authorities have been refusing to allow them into the kingdom.

    The Jordanian authorities have set up a makeshift refugee camp along the border with Syria, where the Palestinians are being held in tents, with poor sanitary conditions.

    Jordan’s treatment of Palestinian refugees is not uncommon for an Arab country. Lebanon and Egypt have also refused to grant asylum to the fleeing Palestinians. This is also not the first time that an Arab country keeps Palestinians waiting on the border. In the past, Palestinians have also been denied entry into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Libya.

    Arab support for the Palestinians has been largely rhetorical over the past two decades, forcing the Palestinians to become almost entirely dependent on American and EU taxpayers’ money.

    Meanwhile, an additional 100,000 Syrians, who have fled their country in the past year, have been permitted to enter Jordan.

    The Jordanians are worried that if they allow a few hundred Palestinians to settle in the kingdom, that would create a precedent and pave the way for 500,000 Palestinians living in Syria to run away to Jordan.

    How come none of the palli pals never condemn Jordan and Arab nations?

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3019/jordan-palestinian-refugees

  200. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    I read that a lot of the Pallies moved out in 67 expecting the Arabs to destroy Israel and reap the spoils but it didn’t work out that way.

    Benny Morris’s two books on the 1948 war go into some detail. Basically, a lot more of the Palestinians left in 1947, expecting to return after the Arab invasions has wiped Israel off the face of the map, then was ever thought. Radio Egypt was broadcasting, urging the Palis to leave. However, the Israeli Army of the day – the Haganah – where the location was strategic – weren’t above speeding stragglers on the way, with a few bursts fired over their heads.

  201. thefrollickingmole

    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Apparently there was a spike in sales of land before the ’48 war with a few enterprising Pallies thinking they were on a winner selling to those whod be “driven into the sea” the next year allowing them to return.

    Wouldnt bet the house on that being true though, if it was it shows a shocking lack of security by the Arab nations.

  202. tomix

    White Phosphorus: From U.S. Army Chemical Materials Agency

    Health effects: The combustion products of
    burning white phosphorus are irritating to
    the nose, throat and lungs. Severe coughing,
    shortness of breath or chest tightness may
    occur. The onset of these difficulties may be
    delayed for several hours. Upon contact with
    the skin, white phosphorus particles that
    have ignited may produce severe and deep
    second-and third- degree skin burns. White
    phosphorus smoke is especially irritating
    to the eyes. Signs of ocular irritation may
    include uncontrollable blinking, an aversion
    to bright light and tearing. Solid particles
    in the eye may produce severe injury to the
    cornea.

    Did you read that, thefrollickingmole?

    Can you grasp that 2nd & 3rd. degree burns will have, er, sequelae?
    http://www-pmcd.apgea.army.mil/fndocumentviewer.aspx?docid=003676690

  203. Zatara

    How come none of the palli pals never condemn Jordan and Arab nations?

    Probably because more than half of the population of Jordan are “Palestinians”.

    As were the residents of the West Bank until 1988 when King Hussien of Jordan finally washed his hands of the West Bank, abandoning Jordanian claims to it and stripped Jordanian citizenship from them.

    Interestingly, the Arab League never supported Jordan when it claimed to have annexed the West Bank after they captured it in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Seems even then they saw it as a great little excuse to shit stir.

    Why Israel didn’t annex it after they won it back in 1967 I haven’t figured out yet. Early version of PC/appeasement maybe. Had they gone hard-line on it then they wouldn’t be in the position they are now.

  204. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Probably because more than half of the population of Jordan are “Palestinians”.

    I’ve posted before on the propensity of the Palestinians “never to lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity.”

    P.L.O. tried to set up “Palestinian State” in Jordan. That was not a success – the P.L.O. broke one agreement too many, with the result that King Hussein of Jordan let the Jordanian Army off the leash. The Army, being mostly descended from the Bedouin, and who loathed, detested and despised the Palis, took full opportunity to make their feelings known, to the extent where some of the Palis were crossing into Israel, rather then deal with their fellow “Arabs.” (That was the origin of the group “Black September,”) Others fled to Lebanon.

  205. thefrollickingmole

    tomix

    Now you are doing it again, I have been talking about smoke, not solids all along, you seem to be doing the usual leftie ink squirting exercise of adding in the effects of solids (which I have stated above ARE dangerous/long term health effects) as a sort of window licking “gotcha”.

    Let me put it this way
    THIS: Severe coughing, shortness of breath or chest tightness may occur
    Is the effects of smoke, no long term effects

    THIS: Upon contact with the skin, white phosphorus particles that have ignited may produce severe and deep second-and third- degree skin burns.
    Is the effects of solids.

    There are 2 different things.

  206. Aristogeiton

    43+ years! It never stops burning!!! The humanity and the hyperbole!!!

  207. Alexis

    Phosphorous. Boo-hoo. Those Hamas rockets are 400-pounders people, being launched into the middle of cities full of Jews and Arabs. If they don’t like phosphorous they are free to stop launching BOMBS which are also hazardous to health. Hamas scum.

    Oh yea, every one of those houses and hospitals must have been harbouring rockets. Perhaps we should institute that policy for all weapons held by Israel and used against Gaza. They have certainly proved to be more deadly.

    You know Hamas do have the option of putting on uniforms, building military bases that aren’t in the centre of town, and thinking up a better tactic than shooting vast numbers of unguided rockets to randomly pepper Israel or get done by Iron Dome. Their military strategy is great for stoking outrage in Porte-Saint-Denis but about as bad as it can be for their civilians.

    Start a week-long artillery war with your angry, powerful and paranoid neighbour without air raid sirens or bomb shelters. Yep, that’s logical.

  208. Wozzup

    It seems to me that the argument in this video is pretty well spot on. Is it true that 18c prevents this kind of discourse in Australia? Or is it just the make up of our piss poor media which refuses to tackle issues in an unbiased manner. Certain issues are either reported with a left wing bias (he ABC – which means anti Israel) or not at all (the commercials).

  209. Aristogeiton

    Wozzup
    #1392161, posted on July 23, 2014 at 8:45 am
    It seems to me that the argument in this video is pretty well spot on. Is it true that 18c prevents this kind of discourse in Australia? Or is it just the make up of our piss poor media which refuses to tackle issues in an unbiased manner.

    What’s the nearest Australian equivalent of “Real Time”? “The Project”? There’s your answer.

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