Mikecarltonitis

Anti-semitism

You develop a severe and irrational hatred of Jews, which you try to hide by calling them “Israelis”, convinced they are responsible for all the ills in the world. This bizarre condition, also known as mikecarltonitis, sees you re-hashing anti-semitic cartoons and caricatures from the ’30s and dressing them up as “progressive thinking”. In this state, you start to believe that Hamas are a peace-loving group of guitar-strumming hippies with flowers in their hair while Israelis are the goose-stepping re-incarnation of the Third Reich.

That was Rowan Dean writing in the Fairfax owned Australian Financial Review. So this rabid anti-semitism isn’t a Fairfax thing, it’s a SMH and The Age thing.

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108 Responses to Mikecarltonitis

  1. stackja

    So this rabid anti-semitism isn’t a Fairfax thing, it’s a SMH and The Age thing.

    Who ‘edits’ this rabid anti-semitism? Someone said young Cubby.

  2. JC

    Cubby was defending it and so was his boss Darren Goodsir. It’s unfuckingbelieveable they were actually defending the cartoon and refused to deal with for a week until the pressure became too great.

  3. Infidel Tiger

    You develop a severe and irrational hatred of Jews, which you try to hide by calling them “Israelis”

    No, the code word is now “Likudniks”.

  4. C.L.

    You develop a severe and irrational hatred of Jews, which you try to hide by calling them “Israelis” …

    Another leftist code phrase is “Israel lobby.”

    Or, for the hard-core, Jewish lobby.

    Carlton used “Jewish lobby” in 2010 when he was investigated for racism by the Press Council.

  5. Andrew

    Speaking of Likudniks: Wonder if we will be hearing from our resident defender of any Joooooo-killers and anti-Semite enablers, now that even the SMH themselves, as well as other Fewfacts mastheads, have conceded what every decent person knew immediately?

  6. H B Bear

    God knows why Dean is at Fauxfacts. Ben Cubby as Deputy Editor of the SMH is a joke – even for them.

  7. Bruce of Newcastle

    Lets not forget SMH deputy editor Ben Cubby, who is a good twitter mate of our very own Evcricket.

    Ben appears to think the world is going to fry and Hamas are heroic freedom fighters, which is 2 out of 2 on the epic fail scale. So, adapting from our Henry, it means he’s in bed with the zealots of both Gaia and Gaza.

  8. Infidel Tiger

    Isn’t Jonathan Swan a complete beta:

    Jonathan SwanVerified account
    ‏@jonathanvswan
    Right for SMH to apologise for Gaza cartoon. As a Jew it disturbed me. But those who claim SMH editors are anti-Semitic are so wrong.

    https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/496057154990661632

    Get some sack, you spineless jellyfish.

  9. whyisitso

    Can’t read the link without subscribing to the AFR, and there’s no way Fairfax is getting one cent from me.

  10. James

    Cubby was the climate change doom sayer not too long ago.

    Now he’s an editor?

  11. stackja

    whyisitso
    #1404183, posted on August 4, 2014 at 7:08 pm
    Can’t read the link without subscribing to the AFR, and there’s no way Fairfax is getting one cent from me.

    We have to assume the story is correct.

  12. Squirrel

    Astonishing that such an image could appear in a “mainstream” Australian publication.

    In the horrific event that Australia had a hardline neighbour which was committed to our destruction and regularly sent rockets in our direction, perhaps even some of the more globally empathetic souls at Fairfax would reconsider their views.

  13. jupes

    Fairfax has form. Let’s also not forget that a Leunig cartoon was included in an Iranian holocaust denying competition.

  14. Token

    I thought Ben Cubby may have some suggestions on this topic from Beyond Blue:

    Token ‏@lokicat_

    @bencubby #auspol here is your chance to explain to @beyondblue why you defended that vile cartoon “I’m not racist but…” #StopThinkRespect

  15. Gab

    In the horrific event that Australia had a hardline neighbour which was committed to our destruction and regularly sent rockets in our direction, perhaps even some of the more globally empathetic souls at Fairfax would reconsider their views.

    Doubt it very much. They’d blame Abbott/Howard foreign policies and say we deserved it and brought it upon ourselves.

  16. Bob

    I was a Fairfax shareholder, but I quit when the SMH settled into its programme of self destruction. Nevertheless, I remain fascinated by the Fairfax board and its chairman Roger Corbett. He was the CEO of Woolworths and is now a director of Walmart.

    Let’s assume a purchasing manager in either of those companies persisted in buying many items which were neither wanted nor bought by the majority of customers. Am I to believe Roger would have condoned this destructive behaviour?

    The answer must be yes, as he appears to be complicit in the accelerating demise of the two newspapers. Is this weird and inexplicable behaviour or, have I missed something?

  17. candy

    Astonishing that such an image could appear in a “mainstream” Australian publication.

    It is, it’s just amazing. I think these characters just don’t get out of the office much or mix with many people of different situations and so have a one track mind. I don’t think they mean harm. They are just locked into their little socialist black and white view of the world.

  18. Alfonso

    Rowan is now in big trouble with leftard media, luvvies go berserk when called out on the obvious….

    Rowan doesn’t do the comrade narrative on Jews so his future in collective media is limited….they’ll never trust him again.

  19. jupes

    Brandis was just on PVO discussing this.

    PVO asked him the difference between the SMH cartoon and Bleak’s cartoon of the Hamas dad sending his son out to win the PR war.

    Brandis to his credit pointed out the bleeding obvious.

  20. jupes

    I don’t think they mean harm.

    Of course not. They just want the Jews to stop firing back.

  21. Chris M

    Not to seem supporting the perverted views of the vile Carlton reprobate in any way but

    You develop a severe and irrational hatred of Jews, which you try to hide by calling them “Israelis”

    To me a citizen of Israel would be an Israeli and a Jew would be one who follows Judaism – who may or may not be an Israeli. As for being blood descendants of Judah I would think this doesn’t apply to many Jews today, so I think a Jew being a believer in Judaism is the most appropriate.

  22. calli

    As for being blood descendants of Judah I would think this doesn’t apply to many Jews today, so I think a Jew being a believer in Judaism is the most appropriate.

    I think you may mean Jacob (Israel). Judah was one of his twelve sons.

  23. Squirrel

    “Gab

    #1404218, posted on August 4, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    In the horrific event that Australia had a hardline neighbour which was committed to our destruction and regularly sent rockets in our direction, perhaps even some of the more globally empathetic souls at Fairfax would reconsider their views.

    Doubt it very much. They’d blame Abbott/Howard foreign policies and say we deserved it and brought it upon ourselves.”

    Sadly true – and they’d find a way of rationalising it under a Labor/Green government, too.

  24. Chris M

    I think you may mean Jacob (Israel).

    No

    Judah was one of his twelve sons.

    Yes. I understand the name Jew originally came from Judah, as in meaning descendants of Judah.

    If you are looking for anti-Israel bias ABC PM tonight was an absolute corker, just breathtaking. How dare Israel break the ceasefire just because Hamas fires a few rockets! How rude to keep looking for tunnels during the ceasefire!

    This ceasefire stuff is crap anyway, why stop until Hamas surrenders?

  25. jupes

    This ceasefire stuff is crap anyway, why stop until Hamas surrenders?

    Destroyed is the word you are looking for.

    I agree, far better to keep going and get rid of the pricks once and for all rather than go through this every couple of years.

  26. Gab

    A Jewish man writes to Mike Carlton to complain about Carlton’s racist article.

    Carlton replies:

    From: Mike Carlton
    Date: 28 July 2014 7:17:21 AEST
    To: Yury Glikin
    Subject: Re: Irrelevant

    You’re the one full of hate and bile, sunshine. The classic example of the Jewish bigot. Now # [fuck] off.

    Mike Carlton

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/how_mike_carlton_writes_to_a_reader_accusing_him_of_writing_anti_jewish_mat/

  27. Joe

    How does one go about inkoving section 81C.

  28. calli

    A Jewish man writes to Mike Carlton to complain about Carlton’s racist article.

    The much loved son in law?

  29. Brandis to his credit pointed out the bleeding obvious.

    What did he say?

    btw Brandis has been very good on this issue.

  30. Fisky

    You’re the one full of hate and bile, sunshine. The classic example of the Jewish bigot. Now # [fuck] off.

    Incredible. How the fuck does this man not get hauled before Judge Mordy?? (I know, I know, the law doesn’t apply to the Left)

  31. Docket62

    Isn’t there a decent hacker out there with the guts to mount a serious DOS attack on SMh and The Age .. Just for fun?

  32. Baldrick

    I like Bolta’s description of why Carlton is such an angry ant … ‘a man who was almost somebody and now he’s almost nobody’.

  33. Splatacrobat

    You’re the one full of hate and bile, sunshine. The classic example of the Jewish bigot. Now # [fuck] off.

    Carlton may as well have just copied and pasted The eternal Jew . It’s what he really thinks.

  34. Andrew

    DOH ! INVOKING!

    Doh! 18C!

  35. john of dandenong

    Gerard Henderson has ‘irrelevant’ Charlton’s measure. I think Charlton forgets to take his medication. Gerard seems to think Charlton gets on the gin from dawn until crash time. At any rate he is a vile piece of work. Is he married to Ann Summers?

  36. Beertruk

    Martin Luther King is attributed with having said, “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism,” in response to a student who had attacked Zionism during a dinner event with Dr. King in 1968.

    Linky

  37. And Another Thing

    Twenty years ago no one in the media would have even thought like this, let alone publish. WTF is going on?

  38. Notafan

    What will it take for the scales to fall from the eyes of the world’s Mike Carltons?
    Hamas take the money their propaganda generates from the west to  pursue their war.
    Will Australian journalists in Gaza come home and tell the truth?
    If the west stop sending money the people of Gaza might actually be forced to cease attacking Israel.
    I know Qatar is up to their necks in this conflict as well.

  39. Clam Chowdah

    I like Bolta’s description of why Carlton is such an angry ant … ‘a man who was almost somebody and now he’s almost nobody’.

    That is excellent. Up there with Prof. Bunyip’s use of the swingeingly accurate “Butch” and Henderson’s stinging reference to The real problem: ‘Mike “I’ll pour the gin” Carlton’.

  40. duncanm

    Carlton really is a hateful bigotted fool. I just thought he was stirring for readership, but that exchange on BoltA’s site nails it for me.

  41. Jesus said we should forgive our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. These cretins seem content to extend that to metaphorical c**kgobbling on one’s knees forever.

  42. C.L.

    This ceasefire stuff is crap anyway, why stop until Hamas surrenders?

    Exactly.

    Hamas should be exterminated.

    Then ISIS.

    Also Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

    Like the Axis powers, they should all be exterminated.

  43. Alf

    He didn’t choose the cartoon, nor did he suggest that anyone was a peace-loving hippie. Why not look at what he did say, rather than what he didn’t?

  44. red breast

    Isn’t there a decent hacker out there with the guts to mount a serious DOS attack on SMh and The Age .. Just for fun?

    Just fake up ANZ bank letterhead and issue a press release saying the bank is withdrawing the Fairfax overdraft facility.
    You’ll not go to jail and only be given a $1000 good behavior bond.

  45. Paul

    C.L sounding a bit like a Dalek there.

  46. Alf

    A Jewish man writes to Mike Carlton to complain about Carlton’s racist article.

    Carlton replies:

    From: Mike Carlton
    Date: 28 July 2014 7:17:21 AEST
    To: Yury Glikin
    Subject: Re: Irrelevant

    You’re the one full of hate and bile, sunshine. The classic example of the Jewish bigot. Now # [fuck] off.

    But this is exactly the sort of language people on this site use routinely against people who disagree with them, assuming that this is even true. So, what’s the problem on this occasion?

  47. We all know that leftism is a disease.

    But now it’s in video.

  48. H B Bear

    Butch looks like he is about to pull a Deveneny.

    When you get turfed by Fauxfacts the next stop is the rubber room.

  49. Notafan

    Hmm just looked at Carltons twatter feed, Fraser says third school hit has to be deliberate, Carlton on the same rant even though there is evidence that at least on of the school incidents was an Hamas misfire.
    Look at the threats made against journos for mentioning Hamas rockets being launched 200 metres from their hotel.
    Seriously you bozos, you don’t think if Israel was really targetting civilians the death toll wouldn’t be in the tens of thousands?

  50. Leo G

    Carlton may as well have just copied and pasted The eternal Jew . It’s what he really thinks.

    Nor would Glen Le Lievre’s caricature be out of place in any of the recent incarnations of the hoax “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”- including Hamas’s 1988 covenant. It quite neatly captures the spirit of the propaganda that Hamas wants the Western Press to spread on their behalf.

  51. JC

    But this is exactly the sort of language people on this site use routinely against people who disagree with them, assuming that this is even true. So, what’s the problem on this occasion?

    When has this site ever veered toward antisemitism, Alfie? We in fact attack vehemently oppose antisemitism you boring leftist turd.

  52. Token

    He didn’t choose the cartoon, nor did he suggest that anyone was a peace-loving hippie.

    Have you seen his twitter feed? What a vile man.

  53. Notafan

    Token that is a +1 from me.

  54. Squirrel

    “Baldrick

    #1404292, posted on August 4, 2014 at 9:01 pm

    I like Bolta’s description of why Carlton is such an angry ant … ‘a man who was almost somebody and now he’s almost nobody’.”

    In the 80s (I think) he had an amusing line about inquiring re the position of Managing Director of the ABC, to give him something to do in the afternoons, following his morning radio spot, but the people at Aunty told him that it wasn’t a full-time job…..

  55. Matthew

    Another leftist code phrase is “Israel lobby.”

    There is no Israel lobby. A day if you say there is an Israel lobby then the Israel lobby will destroy you.

    Move along now.

  56. manalive

    Incredible. How the fuck does this man not get hauled before Judge Mordy?? …

    This incident and the reaction aptly demonstrates why 18c is an unnecessary restriction on free speech.
    In fact it has exposed latent or disguised anti-Semitism for all to see.

  57. MT Isa Miner

    Paul

    #1404583, posted on August 4, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    C.L sounding a bit like a Dalek there.
    Paul

    #1404583, posted on August 4, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    C.L sounding a bit like a Dalek there.

    Mate, if I had a Dalek army I would solve the middle east problem tomorrow! In fact I would solve so many problems before beer o’clock we’d be laughing.

  58. Combine Dave

    Just fake up ANZ bank letterhead and issue a press release saying the bank is withdrawing the Fairfax overdraft facility.
    You’ll not go to jail and only be given a $1000 good behavior bond.

    In that case they’d throw the book at you.

  59. Paul

    MT Isa Miner: Now you’re talking.

  60. handjive

    Progressives. Just because your ‘moving forward’ doesn’t mean you’re going to a better place.

  61. Token

    There is no Israel lobby. A day if you say there is an Israel lobby then the Israel lobby will destroy you.

    Move along now.

    Snakes always come out of the grass when the temperature rises.

  62. Robbo

    I’m of the opinion that everyone should just shut up and turn away from the conflict and let Israel go about the business of finishing off those mad homicidal Hamas lunatics for good. While that is happening I am open to suggestions about what should be done with moronic hate filled arseholes like Carlton.

  63. Max

    Ultimately this is a question of individual freedom over governments and the sanctity of property rights.

    People living in Palestine in 1948 when it became Israel had their property rights taken from them by government forces.

    That breaks every single principle we talk about on Catallaxy Files.

  64. Marion of the Glades

    Of course the Herald cartoon was appalling. But so is this:
    “I can hear the usual “but but but” already, as in: but you’re ignoring that most Muslims are peace-loving, and saying such things risks alienating them or encouraging racists.”
    A sample of the persistent tone of Andrew Bolt in recent times.
    We have a quite dangerous tendency in prominent public voices that ought to be discouraged. It is evil.

  65. Wozzup

    This is the extract of a letter I sent to Senator Brandis yesterday. I encourage other concerned people to email him with similar messages demanding concerted action to prosecute those who published this wholly disgraceful material which is nothing more than a message designed to incite hatred of Jews.

    As I say in the letter I do not do this lightly as in general I do not support restriction on free speech but it is necessary to draw the line at vilification and incitement of hatred which oversteps the mark of allowable behaviour.

    [i]“Dear Senator Brandis,

    I draw your attention to the recent publication by the Sydney Morning Herald …. of an article authored by Mike Carlton, with an accompanying cartoon, which were explicitly anti Semitic and of a character which incites hatred of Jews. The pieces were most clearly about race not just about the policies of Israel and over stepped the mark to such an extent that they must be the subject of prosecution. In particular, the cartoon deliberately and explicitly depicted a crude anti Semitic image of an ugly “archetypal” Jew wantonly committing an act of violence. The crude and offensive image is of the sort seldom seen outside of Nazi Germany circa 1936. It is an absolute disgrace that an Australian media organisation should publish such openly hostile and racially denigrating material, which amounts to racial vilification and in the eyes of some would be seen as an incitement to violence against Jews. It will be a further disgrace if the Australian government fails to act to hold the organisation to account.

    Of even greater concern, at a time when there are those in the wider Australian community seeking a reason to take physical action against Jews, is the risk that they will interpret lack of action by the Australian Government as a signal that the Government is too weak or vacillating to act and take it as an invitation to further pursue their own antisemitic activities…………… It is all too clear that this has not just been about the policies of Israel but is more often motivated by crude “Jew hating” of the sort promoted by extremists. To date, Australian governments of all stripes have been unwilling to address these issues head-on, apparently preferring instead to keep quiet and hope it goes away. Willingness to accept this type of vilification merely serves as an invitation to those who are looking to go further and damages Australian society.

    While the publisher has subsequently apparently apologised and withdrawn the offending cartoon, the damage is already done and the offending material is now widely available on the internet, quite apart from the fact that there are many in society who will have seen and already been influenced by it. I am not one who supports section 18c in its present form, particularly in relation to the provision about “offending” and I have supported you and your Government in its moves to amend this provision, which I believe to be unduly restrictive in its prohibitions.

    Notwithstanding this, the material objected to by me ……..so over-steps the mark of decency, straying into the bounds of vilification and incitement, that I ……… feel that decisive action is called for. I ask that you refer the matter to the appropriate authorities for investigation and prosecution.”[/i]

  66. Max

    ^

    in general I do not support restriction on free speech but it is necessary..

    Hence why 18C will stay – again more collectivist thinking, using government force to take away individual (god given) freedoms.

    Against everything the CatallaxyFiles stands for.

  67. Leo G

    “I can hear the usual “but but but” already, as in: but you’re ignoring that most Muslims are peace-loving, and saying such things risks alienating them or encouraging racists.”
    A sample of the persistent tone of Andrew Bolt in recent times.
    We have a quite dangerous tendency in prominent public voices that ought to be discouraged. It is evil.

    So the Herald cartoon was appalling, but but but Andrew Bolt is evil and his public voice ought to be discouraged?
    The persistent tone of the Australian Left in recent times has been to support evil through ignorance and to suppress the public voice of those who bear witness against it.

  68. Marion of the Glades

    @Max: when you invoke God, you might consider this:

    Galatians 3:28

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  69. lotocoti

    People living in Palestine in 1948 when it became Israel had their property rights taken from them by government forces.

    Exactly who had their property rights taken from them?

  70. Notafan

    Marion
    Hamas has a stated purpose of killing all the Jews.
    If you are quoting holy books how about checking the koranic verses on trees and stones calling out to kill the Jews.
    Are you to blinded to see it?
    Millions of people have lost land in wars including nearly one million Jews expelled from the ME, why are only Palestinians entitled to compensation and encouraged to hold tight to their grievances for four generations?

  71. Leo G

    “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    Paul was saying that Christians did not have to be Judaised- that is, thoroughly schooled in Mosaic Law- to be Christian. What are you suggesting?

  72. Zaphod

    I’m of the opinion that everyone should just shut up and turn away from the conflict and let Israel go about the business of finishing off those mad homicidal Hamas lunatics for good.

    Using their “fab new weapon”, the fléchette bomb ?

  73. Marion of the Glades

    @Notafan: Your agenda is Hamas. Mine is the evil tendency to conflate Hamas with Muslims and the Israeli State with Jews.
    @Leo: you can verbal Paul. My reading is literal.

  74. Brian Eno on Israel: “ragingly racist theocracy”.

  75. Matthew

    OK, so now we are cool with 18c?

    How about we just have the death penalty for anti semetism, like in the Soviet Union? On the flip side any false accusations of anti semetism should also carry the death penalty.

    That should satisfy all stakeholders.

  76. David

    Good luck with your letter Wozzup. I wrote to Brandis in May re the apparent weakening of resolve on 18C and have not even had the courtesy of a pro-forma “thanks for your letter” reply.

    As a Jew I prefer to know who my enemies are. If push comes to shove it lessens the chances of using that disgusting phrase “collateral damage”.

    Kol tuv

  77. David

    How about we just have the death penalty for anti semetism, like in the Soviet Union

    What alternative universe do you live in Matthew? Russia has one of the worst histories for pogroms and anti-semitism.

  78. Brian Eno on Israel: “ragingly racist theocracy”.

    Ahhh. Well-known intellectual giants the world over are flocking to Hamas.

    What am I doing, just standing here? I could be standing shoulder to shoulder with people like Brian Eno.

    (Just remind me about Brian Eno’s principal achievements again? Isn’t he the producer who, when he produces your album, has a kiss-of-death effect that sends your band’s career nosediving into musical solipsism and eventual irrelevance?)

  79. Token

    How about we just have the death penalty for anti semetism, like in the Soviet Union? On the flip side any false accusations of anti semetism should also carry the death penalty.

    No need.

    When we see people using the platform Bob Carr created to feed division and hatred we’ll call it out.

  80. Token

    Brian Eno on Israel: “ragingly racist theocracy”.

    Why do the luvvie class hate Israel so much?

    Though it is crazy enough, I can understand they see it in their political interest in the short term to pander to the islamists. I don’t get why they need to dive into the sewer with the islamists and embrace the most dire parts of their repugnant ideology.

  81. jupes

    Why do the luvvie class hate Israel so much?

    Plain old-fashioned Jew-hate.

  82. Token

    Plain old-fashioned Jew-hate.

    The narration that Yoda provides in the Empire Strikes Back is merely rewording the wisdom of a dozen holy books which warn of consequences of such policies.

    On the OT this article from Commentary was linked [sorry I forget by whom] to which supposes (to a good degree it is correct) how anti-Semitism lead to the destruction of the society of 3 of Europes great powers in the late 19th and 20th centuries.

  83. Call me crazy

    I can understand why Israeli actions are criticised just as I can see the evil in Hamas. When it comes to killing and maiming innocent bystanders they are both culpable.
    What we must avoid is the importation of religious violence or violence in the name of religion. My Jewish and Muslim friends get on perfectly well and I shall do my piece to keep things that way.

  84. Notafan

    Looking at the broader muslim world it isn’t hard to see something intrinsically evil in islam.

  85. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    Ho, ho, ho, ho

  86. Lazy Susan

    So Notafan, you have had a close look at “the broader Muslim world”?

  87. Indigo

    Any QC’s here can give an opinion on whether there is a case against Carlton under 18C? If so, perhaps we can crowd fund it on Catallaxy. I’d be in it.

  88. Indigo

    Luvvies hate the U.S.A. U.S.A supports (most of the time) Israel. Therefore luvvies hate Israel and embrace Israel’s enemies. Hence they love Hamas, and the ABC broadcasts Al-Jazeera, mouthpiece for the Muslim Brotherhood and Al-Qaida.

  89. Indigo

    Marion needs to spend more time out at Lakemba (AKA West Beirut) if she thinks that there are Muslims here who DON’T support Hamas. And we may think we are all one with Jesus Christ, but ISIS doesn’t.

    Anyway, don’t quote Christianity…the fountainhead of all anti-Semitism down the ages is the Christian religion. After all, the Jews killed Jesus and have been damned ever since by all forms of Christianity. A pox of all religions, especially Muslim.

  90. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Max (Hi Alan!!):

    People living in Palestine in 1948 when it became Israel had their property rights taken from them by government forces.

    Bollocks. The United Nations created Israel in 1948. The new state was instantly invaded by 5 Arab Armies with the stated intent of genocide. To everyone’s astonishment, the Israelis fought these 5 armies and defeated them, losing 1% of the entire Jewish population of the country in doing so. Per the UN arrangements ‘the Israelis’ included all resident arab muslims. However, in response to official military pronouncements from Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc, plus panic, many of these people upped stakes and left on promises that they’d follow behind the advancing Arab armies to kill all the Jews and steal their stuff. A lesser number stayed, a lesser number again joined in the conquest effort actively.

    The ones who stayed are still there, are full-fledged Israeli citizens, and have rights no other Arab in the ME has, has ever had, or ever will have.

    But let me grant your premise!

    So, if the arabs who fled or joined in the conquest effort have ‘rights’, then so do the larger number of Jews and Christians driven out of all ME countries by muslims. After all, they had been there for many centuries and in the case of the Jewish villages at Babylon, since the Bronze age (predating the Arabs!).

    Therefore they have exactly the same rights under your model. So do the hundreds of thousands of Christians being ethnically cleansed out of Syria and Iraq right now. They ALL lost or are losing far more in terms of property and life than the ‘palestinians’ ever did.

    So, genius, let’s right all these wrongs with dollars, eh? The arabs will owe the Jews, maronites, Melikites, Chaldeans, Assyrians, Zoroastrians, Bahai, Hazara and Druze an order of magnitude more than they are owed, in your model.

    And there is a displacement of Christians larger – far larger – than the ‘palestinian’ one going on right now. How odd, though, that you don’t care about that.

    But of course in fact you are just another anti-semitic left-wing Hi Alanist troll, aren’t you, Max?

  91. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    David

    I hope to God that as many European Jews are getting the hell out of cesspits like the UK and France and getting to Israel.

    This is going to get a lot worse, be history our guide. And I hope Dimona’s working three shifts.

  92. David

    After all, the Jews killed Jesus and have been damned ever since by all forms of Christianity.

    Jesus, a Jewish troublemaker was crucified, a form of execution only open to the Roman authorities in the province. It was not a penalty that the Sanhedrin could inflict. The Romans probably saw it as a means of getting rid of another troublemaker as the people of Judea were a turbulent and troublesome mob.

    There was a very good analysis done by a Christian scholar that it was not until the first Roman Emperor became a Christian that the gaggle of Bishops duly assembled to decide what was proper Christian doctrine and what was not then decided to drop the Jews in the dock as being responsible so as not to “offend” the Romans. An early form of Section XVIIIC apparently.

    I shall try and find the reference and post it.

    It an insult to the intelligence of rational people to even suggest that such a small group of people as the Jews wield the power we are suppose to. If it is true then I’m missing out on my share.
    Kol tuv

  93. David

    I hope to God that as many European Jews are getting the hell out of cesspits like the UK and France and getting to Israel

    They could always come here Mk50. They would be an asset as against the goat humpingliabilities we are getting from the ME. Arguably our greatest general, Monash, was a [somewhat naughty] Jew. But they will probably go to Israel. Europe seems to be heading back to its tradition of Jew hating.

  94. stackja

    David
    #1405316, posted on August 5, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    The historical complexity of Jesus’ trial is apparent in the Gospel accounts. The personal sin of the participants (Judas, the Sanhedrin, Pilate) is known to God alone. Hence we cannot lay responsibility for the trial on the Jews in Jerusalem as a whole, despite the outcry of a manipulated crowd and the global reproaches contained in the apostles’ calls to conversion after Pentecost. Jesus himself, in forgiving them on the cross, and Peter in following suit, both accept “the ignorance” of the Jews of Jerusalem and even of their leaders.
    As the Church declared at the Second Vatican Council:
    . . . [N]either all Jews indiscriminately at that time, nor Jews today, can be charged with the crimes committed during his Passion. . . [T]he Jews should not be spoken of as rejected or accursed as if this followed from holy Scripture.

    linky

  95. David

    Thanks Stakja for the references. Still looking for the reference to the scholar. Damn computer memory. I know it is there.

  96. Leo G

    @Leo: you can verbal Paul. My reading is literal.

    Your reading is completely out of context and clearly misrepresents Paul. Paul was reproving Galatian Christians for deviating from the doctrine of justification. The quote refers to none other than Christians.
    Max wrongly suggested that many people living in Palestine in 1948 had their private property rights taken from them by force. But Max implied nothing about any possible natural rights as Christians. The “god given” right to which he was referring was independence from tyranny.

  97. Matthew

    What alternative universe do you live in Matthew? Russia has one of the worst histories for pogroms and anti-semitism.

    The universe in which antisemitism carried the death penalty in the Soviet Union, and for which many people were executed.

    Later on in the Soviet Union some Jews were persecuted but they weren’t persecuted for being Jews but for being Zionists. Huge difference between persecuting Jews for being Jews vs persecuting particular individuals due to ideology in a totalitarian state (In which Jews in general weren’t mistreated at all, and if fact did very well).

  98. JC

    (In which Jews in general weren’t mistreated at all, and if fact did very well).

    Which is why Reagan spent a great deal of time negotiating with the Soviets to allow Jewish emigration and why 3 million jumped the fence as soon as the wall came down the Soviet Union ended. They loved it there.

  99. Gab

    Just so readers know Matthew’s historical nonsense is false:

    Even though many of the Old Bolsheviks were ethnically Jewish, they sought to uproot Judaism and Zionism and established the Yevsektsiya to achieve this goal. By the end of the 1940s the Communist leadership of the former USSR had liquidated almost all Jewish organizations, with the exception of a few token synagogues. These synagogues were then placed under police surveillance, both openly and through the use of informants.

    The campaign of 1948–1953 against so-called “rootless cosmopolitans,” the alleged “Doctors’ plot,” the rise of “Zionology” and subsequent activities of official organizations such as the Anti-Zionist committee of the Soviet public were officially carried out under the banner of “anti-Zionism,”, and by the mid-1950s the state persecution of Soviet Jews emerged as a major human rights issue in the West and domestically.

    See also:
    Stalin and antisemitism
    Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee
    Rootless Cosmopolitans

  100. Gab

    Which is why Reagan spent a great deal of time negotiating with the Soviets to allow Jewish emigration and why 3 million jumped the fence as soon as the wall came down the Soviet Union ended. They loved it there.

    Oh yeah, see also:

    Refusenik.

  101. JC

    and by the mid-1950s the state persecution of Soviet Jews emerged as a major human rights issue in the West and domestically.

    As Brenadn O’Neil eloquently explained it:-)
    The age old Left’s nature coming out again and again. Unable to explain something in rational terms there’s always a conspiracy theory just a around the corner. The cabals of sinister neo-cons, bankers, traders, multinational corporations, of course Murdoch666 and finally when all those are exhausted… we finally get to the Jews.

  102. Matthew

    Just so readers know Matthew’s historical nonsense is false:

    What nonsense? There are three assertions. One that antisemitism was illegal a day punishable by death in the Soviet Union. Two that Jews were not persecuted in the Soviet Union for being Jews. Three that Jews did well in the Soviet Union (meaning they were financially well off, and were an underclass in any sense). There were plenty of Jews (non-religious of course) in high positions in the communist party and in the Soviet state.

    You haven’t refuted any of that. The communists were hostile to religion in general, and all religions were curtailed. All organisations outside the state were curtailed.

    Saying that the Soviet Union was an antisemitic state is ludicrous.

  103. Indigo

    Yes, the Romans killed Jesus, but it’s the Jews got blamed for it by Christians. This is the root cause of Western anti-Semitism. Again, a pox on all religions, but especially Muslims and their extreme views.

  104. Token

    Yes, the Romans killed Jesus, but it’s the Jews got blamed for it by Christians. This is the root cause of Western anti-Semitism.

    The discussion on the topic in Commentary which I last linked to at 1:43pm yesterday addresses how effective a small group of people crippled by hate can take down a civilization:

    Had Jewish-Arab cooperation been possible from the start, and had money from oil been creatively invested in education, technology, industry, and social services, the Middle East would now be by far the richest portion of the earth’s surface. This has been one of history’s greatest lost opportunities, comparable, on a much greater scale, to Spain’s mismanagement of its silver wealth in the 16th century. Anti-Semitism, helped by an ingenious forgery, was the key to the disaster.

  105. Leo G

    “Saying that the Soviet Union was an antisemitic state is ludicrous.”

    Denying that the Soviet Union was an antisemitism state is a laughable deference to Russian State propaganda.

    “In early 1953 Stalin planned to stage a show trial of several doctors, most of whom were Jewish and who were falsely accused of acting against the state—a trial that underlined Stalin’s anti-Semitism….
    The infamous “Doctors’ Plot” speaks volumes about Soviet politics, Stalin’s role, the persistence of a medieval view of doctors as potential poisoners, and the survival of overt anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union, despite the known horrors of the recent Holocaust ” – AM Clarfield, The Soviet “Doctors’ Plot”—50 years on, BMJ. Dec 21, 2002; 325(7378): 1487–1489.</blockquote

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