We daren’t condemn this barbarism for fear of 18c

severed head 18c
Source.

Here is David Morrison speaking in an entirely different context:

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Here is Tony Abbott:

18C has become a complication that we just don’t need

This entry was posted in Cultural Issues, Federal Politics, Freedom of speech. Bookmark the permalink.

415 Responses to We daren’t condemn this barbarism for fear of 18c

  1. Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society.

    Eyup. No problems at all.

  2. And anyway, all the bad Muslims have now moved to Iraq. So there’s nothing to worry about next door.

  3. C.L.

    The Islamic Council of Victoria unequivocally condemns and deplores the actions in those reports without reservation.
    Islam requires the human treatment of all people including prisoners of war. The actions portrayed cannot be justified in any way whatsoever and the perpetrators should be condemned in the strongest terms.
    Mr Ghaith Krayem, Secretary of the Islamic Council of Victoria, stated, “These atrocities have no place in our religion.”

    They could have said this a month ago.

    A front page picture forced their hand, I guess.

  4. notafan

    In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society.

    Radical Islam in Southern Thailand and the Philippines, in Aceh, the Bali bombings ?
    It isn’t as bad but I have read that the koran is becoming more accessible and with that things are changing.

  5. Islam requires the human treatment of all people including prisoners of war. The actions portrayed cannot be justified in any way whatsoever and the perpetrators should be condemned in the strongest terms.
    Mr Ghaith Krayem, Secretary of the Islamic Council of Victoria, stated, “These atrocities have no place in our religion.”

    I think the problem is that it’s the KID holding someone’s head. The kid didn’t cut the head off, so why is the kid taking credit for the beheading?

    It’s wrong, I tells ya. These atrocities have no place in their religion. Spare the scimitar and spoil the child.

    Either that, or the Islamic Council of Victoria is using that time-honoured technique of lying to the infidel, eg. taqiyya.

  6. You clearly haven’t read the rest of my posts here and yet criticise me from a smarmy, Muslims are always evil point of view.

    No; I’m not approaching this from a ‘Muslims are always evil’ point of view. Your logic was spurious – you were using the “small” number of known radicals who have either been arrested or departed oversease as evidence of a lack of problem. That small number is not a reason for complacency and it is unlikely to be an accurate measure of the extent of the problem.

  7. .

    Philippa Martyr
    #1412566, posted on August 11, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society.

    Eyup. No problems at all.

    This is willfully smug, glib and incorrect and it belies your intelligence.

  8. .

    Your logic was spurious – you were using the “small” number of known radicals who have either been arrested or departed oversease as evidence of a lack of problem.

    Close but no cigar.

  9. Anne

    Glenda,

    Because the “moderates” are the grass that hides the “extremist” snakes.

    Nicely put Glenda.

    Dot, you need to read the Hadiths.

    The only difference between a ‘moderate’* muslim and one who would kill you is critical mass!

  10. notafan

    The web is awash with picture of young boys holding guns, standing looking at crucifixions, beheadings, holding the heads of the murdered, watching as headless and other bodies are dragged behind motorcycles.
    Don’t tell me that they haven’t been actively involved. My neighbour was taken by the Eritrean communists to be a boy soldier when he was eight. Not new, not unusual.
    A wander around facebook can give any layman an idea of the extent of the local support of IS amongst Australian muslims
    Sharouff has been sending videos and tweets to his mates/followers in Australia, (One was interviewed in the Australian on Saturday who runs an Islamic centre in Bankstown) I suspect that is more than one person.

  11. incoherent rambler

    By my standards what we see is child abuse.

    Secondly, (Sinclair alluded to this) Australians who murder women and children should be hunted down and charged for their crimes, tried and sentenced to the maximum (ideally hanging).
    Unless we get involved in war (or peacekeeping) there ain’t much else we can do. But, I repeat we should take responsibility for our own citizens and protect the rest of the world from our criminals.
    If it turns out that these criminals act in the name of Islam, fine, let rule of law reign. Hang em’.

  12. .

    Because the “moderates” are the grass that hides the “extremist” snakes.

    Sure. Because some Muslims believe in a intentionally dishonest and aggressive form of Taqiyya (NOTE: I AGREE ON THIS), ergo Ishrad Manji is simply covering for ISIS…

    You guys ought to check your premises. You mention the word Muslim and you drop any pretension to the application of logic.

  13. Roger

    Mr Ghaith Krayem, Secretary of the Islamic Council of Victoria, stated, “These atrocities have no place in our religion.”

    On the contrary, the beheading of unbelievers defeated in combat is exhorted in the Quran and approved by Sharia law. Either Mr Krayem is ignorant of his religion or he is dissembling.

  14. nilk

    Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live under the Borgia Popes either.

    Whatevs, Dot. They all read the same quran.

  15. nilk

    You probably also missed the occasional reports over the years of girls being forcibly circumcised and converted to islam, or else having their heads removed from their bodies.

    Those occurred in SE Asia.

  16. Aristogeiton

    .
    #1412587, posted on August 11, 2014 at 4:03 pm
    [...]
    You mention the word Muslim and you drop any pretension to the application of logic.

    Lol. Too true.

  17. James in Melbourne

    James

    You’ve shown why Ishrad Manji is correct.

    How so, .?

  18. DrBeauGan

    That’s the stuff, Lizzie B changes her avatar to show what she stands for. And a raving loony takes a picture of his son holding a severed head to show what HE stands for.

    It might not be quite enough, Lizzie B. Wish it were. A war fought with avatar changes would be a fine sort of war but the other guys might cheat.

  19. .

    nilk
    #1412591, posted on August 11, 2014 at 4:07 pm
    Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live under the Borgia Popes either.

    Whatevs, Dot. They all read the same quran.
    nilk
    #1412595, posted on August 11, 2014 at 4:09 pm
    You probably also missed the occasional reports over the years of girls being forcibly circumcised and converted to islam, or else having their heads removed from their bodies.

    Those occurred in SE Asia.

    FGM has authority in fatwas as opposed an explicit mandate from the koran and it is also largely and ethnic phenomena.

  20. .

    James

    Because she recommends that Islam become like what Christianityis today – benign.

  21. Grant B

    On the mechanics of beheading – when we killed a hogget the thin killing knife was pushed in then outwards and the head jerked back at the same time snapping the spinal column. Dead within maybe 2-3 seconds. From the few videos I’ve watched these idiots seem to hack away for ages. Who knows, maybe they don’t want to kill them quickly or they failed Slaughtering 101.

  22. Gertrude

    I’m pretty sure that FGM was non existent in Indonesia amongst the original animist religions.

  23. Supplice

    On the mechanics of beheading – when we killed a hogget the thin killing knife was pushed in then outwards and the head jerked back at the same time snapping the spinal column. Dead within maybe 2-3 seconds. From the few videos I’ve watched these idiots seem to hack away for ages. Who knows, maybe they don’t want to kill them quickly or they failed Slaughtering 101.

    Its the “not wanting to kill quickly” one, I think. Beheading isn’t exactly a new science. You might even say its been done to death.

  24. cohenite

    You guys ought to check your premises. You mention the word Muslim and you drop any pretension to the application of logic.

    Your premise is a theoretical, even philosophical one; that and logic have no part in any analysis of islam; the facts speak for themselves.

    And because I’m in the mood, get stuffed Aristogeiton.

  25. .

    That is correct Gertrude, yet outside of Kurdistan (pre ISIS…), it wasn’t prevalent in Iraq.

  26. .

    Your premise is a theoretical, even philosophical one; that and logic have no part in any analysis of islam; the facts speak for themselves.

    Yes, which MUST be correct because ANY Muslim who wants liberalism, secularism or reform is simply lying and covering for ISIS.

    This belief that all ostensibly moderate Muslims are actually engaging in Taqiyya and covering for a Jihad is circular logic and verges on paranoia and conspiracy theories.

    One can make that criticism and still accept the majority of Muslims have utterly backwards ideas.

  27. Jessie

    aussiepundit @ 3.19 A common failing of western intellectuals, particularly secular thinkers, is to try to understand Islam through the prism of Christianity. Adding further to ap’s comment see below.

    Returning to David Littman’s tireless efforts, since January 1989 to cajole the moral cretins at the UN Human Rights Commission into condemning Hamas’ “sacralized” ideology of genocidal Islamic Jew-hatred, the essay concludes with these observations…………

    (A Bostom)
    and

    … repeated by their equally witless policymaking successors today.
    These realities cannot be brushed aside simply because they are embarrassing, but should rather serve as a serious warning to the gullible for whom an appeasing, misguiding, “peace in our time,” will-o’-the-wisp remains a constant obsession.

    PJ Media (24/7 A Bostom)

    27/3/2008 Fitna (Geert Wilders)
    counter film: 28/3/2008 Al Mouftinoun (Arab European League)
    counter film: 11/4/2008 Schism
    All easily avail on liveleaks or youtube, various versions

  28. Aristogeiton

    Cohenite, you unhinged bigot: back at you.

  29. Paridell

    “I cannot equivocate Ishrad Manji with ISIS.”

    This is either very subtle, or Dot means “I cannot equate Ishrad Manji with ISIS.”

    “If they were targeted for this, or otherwise Al Shabbab militarily destroyed, the plot would have never of happened.” That is, “Al Shabaab” and “never have happened”…

    It probably wasn’t subtlety.

  30. stackja

    In an earlier time we face communism:

    Morshead, Sir Leslie James (1889–1959)
    From 1950 he headed ‘The Association’, a secret organization prepared to oppose communist attempts at subversion. It was quietly disbanded in 1952. Morshead had had a brief connexion with a similar movement in the mid-1920s.

    ASIO helped defeat communist attempts at subversion.
    Now we face another threat and again we must rely on ASIO.

  31. outsider

    Are there any forums or social media in which moderate muslims can express their feelings and responses at these ongoing atrocities which are depressingly nothing new. Anything like this thread perhaps? Anything at all to indicate they share the all-too-human reactions of disgust and shock at what is done in the name of their religion? Street marches with little kids holding up ‘peace with Israel’ signs, or world peace initiatives? Imams giving solace to the victims of Islamic terrorism in their speeches? Thoughtful analysis about how it all went so wrong, from Nigeria to Pakistan, plans to address the issues?

    Any utterance by the numerous muslim councils along these lines, condemning terrorist actions taken in the name of their religion? Not as tokenism as a means to disappear the horrific event but since there is a virtual monopoly on large scale violence, it ought to be very obvious if they are seriously concerned and have ideas what to do about it all.

  32. .

    Learn some etymology before lecturing us how to write properly, Paridell. I cannot call Manji and the followers of violently militant Islam the same thing. I hope that explains the origin of the word to you.

    “of” – yes well, what an obvious mistake by me.

    Anyway you sure lead an interesting life, Paridell.

  33. Baldrick

    Interview with Omar Al-Shi-shani, an Islamic State leader with 3aw Melbourne.

    Scum.

  34. Gab

    3AW’s Tom Elliott spoke with ISIS leader Omar Al-Shi-shani just now.

    He’s the overall military commander of the Islamic State and spoke with Tom Elliott via Skype this afternoon.

    In what’s been described as the most “chilling” and “frightening” interview, Omar Al-Shi-shani told 3AW Drive he would stop at nothing.

    “We will push them all the way to Tehran. When we are finished … we will come to Iran,” he said.

    He also said the pictures of the beheadings were not true and it was all a Jewish pigdog conspiracy.

    And no, it not an Onion radio skit.

    Have a listen to what taqqiya and kitman sounds like. (Those two arabic terms just mean ‘lies’).

    http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-drive-blog-with-tom-elliott/tom-elliott-speaks-with-islamic-state-leader-omar-alshishani/20140811-3dikl.html

  35. Philippa Martyr
    #1412566, posted on August 11, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society.

    Eyup. No problems at all.

    This is willfully smug, glib and incorrect and it belies your intelligence.

    How?

    You said that Islam is much more moderate in SE Asia because of the social and governmental influences.

    I responded by sending you a link to a report by the US Combating Terror Center at West Point called Radical Islamic Ideology in South East Asia. There’s no date on it that I can find easily, but it looks to be around 2010.

    The report covers a wide range of areas and locations, and from what I read of it, it reflects the nuances and complexities of the arguments about this issue.

    So scarcely smug, or glib, or incorrect – I didn’t write the thing, after all. Perhaps you should take it up with the boys at West Point.

    I also suspect it’s not as incorrect as you think, because if you do as I did, and google ‘south east asia radical islam’, you find an amazing number of links. It took me about five seconds. I just chose what looked like the most reliable source on the first page of results. There is plenty more out there.

    Your response is glib, and kneejerk.

  36. Supplice

    I don’t subscribe to the online Tele so have only seen the top of the story, but it seems the meeja has found a way to attack a Christian conservative on the subject of Muslim beheadings.

  37. stackja

    ‘We’ll Fight Radical Islam for 100 years’
    Sydney Radio 2GB Michael McLaren speaks with Peter Leahy, former chief of the Australian Army, who says we’re in for a long war between secular societies and radical Islamists intent on implementing strict sharia law.

  38. stackja

    Supplice
    #1412641, posted on August 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm

    Fred Nile has been annoying all the lefty people for years.

  39. Gab

    Seriously, listen to the 3AW link. I don’t think people will be able to make it past 1 minute.

    That’s the type of person who will be heading back to Australia, the type that states beheadings or crucifixions are not being carried out by ISIS personnel. It’s the Jews that are doing these things and reports and pictures are false, apparently.

    This is who the Left rally around. This is the type that the ABC will give a welcoming interview to.

  40. Supplice
    #1412641, posted on August 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm

    Fred Nile has been annoying all the lefty people for years.

    Poor old Rev Fred; all he did wrong was believe something that got tweeted to him/emailed to him from a random source as authentic. He’s not the first person to do this.

    It always helps to verify these things.

  41. cohenite

    There are many treatments of the symbiology of tyranny; Camus’s The Plague for instance deals with the absurdity and amorphous nature of existential threats. The mindless zombies of World War Z are a powerful image of the unreasoning and uncompromising nature of such tyranny. The Strain, a new take on Vampirism is also a good image of tyranny in the form of Stalinism; Nosferatu as a dictator.

    These images can also describe islam. But what islam really is banal; the banality of vile criminal acts is well documented; the charismatic criminal such as Hannibal is a romantic concoction of Hollywood.

    Any attempt to invest some ideal or purpose in islam is a similar avoidance of its vile banality. It is a brutal militaristic ideology which harbours every regressive act known to mankind. Its members are all responsible for this and the useful fuckwits in the West who apologise for islam or otherwise defend it are just as banal.

  42. .

    Wrong Philipa

    You presumed I was making a generalisation I was contending was true all of the time.

    Have I ever said: “Islam has no problems”…or “Islam is unproblematic where it is prevalent”?

    The fact that I demand we shoot Australian fighters in ISIS (as free shooters as well as traitors and foreign mercenaries) at will pretty much rules that out.

    I refuse to write essay length posts or to be corrected on your presumptions.

    This is as fun as arguing about syntax or looking for missing grammatical conjunctions.

    Paridell has fallen to number’s debating technique, please don’t do the same.

  43. .

    cohenite
    #1412657, posted on August 11, 2014 at 5:07 pm
    There are many treatments of the symbiology of tyranny; Camus’s The Plague for instance deals with the absurdity and amorphous nature of existential threats. The mindless zombies of World War Z are a powerful image of the unreasoning and uncompromising nature of such tyranny. The Strain, a new take on Vampirism is also a good image of tyranny in the form of Stalinism; Nosferatu as a dictator.

    Righto.

    The guy who owns a Kebab shop is a Vampire.

  44. Mick Gold Coast QLD

    I’ve followed the discussion here today, whether the medieval muslim death cultists are Woolworths, Coles or Aldi brand and such, and have returned to my initial reaction this morning:

    “Defence Minister David Johnston said … the picture

    … “should not be taken out of context and condemned the picture as a “shocking misrepresentation” of Islam and Muslims.

    “I’m very upset about this sort of thing completely colouring our view of Muslims,” Senator Johnston said.

    “The vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving and peaceful people.”

    That is not leadership.

    It is, indeed, a complete abdication of leadership and the last bit is a meaningless cliché at best.

    ” The Islamic Council of Victoria unequivocally condemns and deplores …”

    It lies.

    as C.L. observes at 3:42 pm:

    “They could have said this a month ago.”

    but they didn’t. They lie.

  45. Numbers’ Islamic source has now been identified by Tim Blair:

    Labor’s Andrew Leigh considers today’s junior jihadi head-holding image, and decides to “celebrate the Australian Muslim community”:

    “We need to celebrate the Australian Muslim community to recognise that there are many peoples of different faiths in the world and extremism comes in all sorts of guises. The Oklahoma bombing was carried out by a Christian.” Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in 1995. Get back to us, Andrew, when you’ve added up all the deaths due to Islamic extremism since then. That should keep you busy for the rest of this parliamentary term. Current Labor leader Bill Shorten thinks it’s a parenting issue:

    “As a parent, I have no idea how you could ever let your child be in that situation. I think that’s shocking,” the Opposition Leader said.

    Mr Mummyblogger continues:

    “I would be careful about using that shocking image, that shocking evil image, and trying to use it for purposes which it shouldn’t be used for,” Mr Shorten said.

    Hello Kitty handbags? Adventure tourism brochures? A $5 million Clover Moore art installation? Shorten’s proscription is unclear.

  46. calli

    but they didn’t. They lie.

    Why not lie? Lying is a means to an end. It’s not considered the evil thing that we in the West (with our inconvenient burden of Judeo-Christian morality) think it is.

    The real education comes in observing just who in our western society lap up the lies and spread them.

  47. notafan

    “As a parent, I have no idea how you could ever let your child be in that situation. I think that’s shocking,” the Opposition Leader said.

    Bill Shorten has strong views about children in the workplace, he’s a union kinda guy.

  48. calli

    “As a parent, I have no idea

    There ya go, Pieman.

  49. Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live under the Borgia Popes either.

    Now you say:

    You presumed I was making a generalisation I was contending was true all of the time.

    Have I ever said: “Islam has no problems”…or “Islam is unproblematic where it is prevalent”?

    The correct response is not an essay-length post.

    It’s really very simple: ‘Thank you Philippa, for finding that source for me, which casts more light on the complexity and problems of which I speak.’

    You’re welcome.

  50. cohenite

    The guy who owns a Kebab shop is a Vampire.

    That is taking appeasement of islam to its literal conclusion I suppose. My fault I suppose for trying a different approach to the resident appeasers. I look forward to Aristogeiton throwing some equally irrelevant Latin at me.

  51. .

    It’s really very simple: ‘Thank you Philippa, for finding that source for me, which casts more light on the complexity and problems of which I speak.’

    You’re welcome.

    …and you wanted me to explain what smug was. FFS, give it a rest.

  52. Aristogeiton

    Sorry cohenite, you’re the guy who can’t see the difference between disapproving of something and banning it:

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/08/04/monday-forum-august-4-2014/comment-page-2/#comment-1404116

    Q.E.D.

  53. Gertrude

    Gab

    The accusation that it’s Jews murdering in ISIS infested countries is simply projection.

    After all, they are aware of pallywood.

  54. Zippy The Younger

    Islam in the Middle East and SE Asia are two different beasts. In SE Asia, it is much more moderated by government and society. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live under the Borgia Popes either.

    So the bali bombers got it wrong?

  55. srr

    Cheer up Dot. According to the The Age, the Muslims have already Won The War -

    Why Israel lost the war in Gaza

    The world has been reminded that Palestinians have a secret weapon that trumps Iron Dome

    In fact, you Dot, can be doubly cheery, because with all this Barbaric Babies in Muslim Militia news, no one is giving a shit about nearly a million Ukrainians trying to escape the slaughtering Fascist EU & UN Supported Kiev Military.

    No wonder China and Russia are dumping the $US to trade more directly with each other – bloody stupid to keep churning cash through Western Enablers of Jihad, when Russian and China are actually putting up a fight against Islam…..mmm….I wonder how much the Russian food trade bans will hurt the Halal Stamping Stand Over Agents bottom line that feeds their weapons re-supply….

  56. stackja

    Sydney Radio 2GB Michael McLaren speaks with Peter Leahy, former chief of the Australian Army, who says we’re in for a long war between secular societies and radical Islamists intent on implementing strict sharia law.

    Just finished listening to Peter Leahy.

  57. tomix

    Anne at 2:21 pm
    Dot
    . #1412173, posted on August 11, 2014 at 10:59 am
    No… Ending immigration won’t end terrorism

    No, ’cause that would just stop muzzies from coming here. We’d still have those pesky Buddhists and Hindus blowing up stuff. Atheist homosexuals are very dangerous.

    That’s funny, Anne. The last time Australia saw this sort of media driven hysteria was 1978 with the [Buddhist]Ananda Marga cult from India.

    Iirc, Fraser declared some sort of emergency and tanks were on the streets in Sydney. Everyone eventually calmed down, although I bet plenty of unfriendly laws got passed.

  58. Matthew

    ‘We’ll Fight Radical Islam for 100 years’
    Sydney Radio 2GB Michael McLaren speaks with Peter Leahy, former chief of the Australian Army, who says we’re in for a long war between secular societies and radical Islamists intent on implementing strict sharia law.

    So because we have an inadequate immigration policy we now have to have a 100 year war? Why?

  59. stackja

    tomix
    #1412731, posted on August 11, 2014 at 6:09 pm

    Australian terrorism born in the Sydney Hilton bombing

    Dr Tim Anderson
    BA(Econ) Murdoch PhD Macquarie
    Senior Lecturer
    H04 – Merewether Building
    The University of Sydney

  60. cohenite

    Sorry cohenite, you’re the guy who can’t see the difference between disapproving of something and banning it:

    Ban it; that horse has long bolted.

    I also think disapproval of something capable of doing what is currently being done in the name of islam is like saying having your head removed is a scratch.

    I’ll make a prediction: 3 years before the shit hits the fan in this country; 3 more years of tut-tuting and flagellating on blogs.

  61. stackja

    Matthew
    #1412740, posted on August 11, 2014 at 6:20 pm
    ‘We’ll Fight Radical Islam for 100 years’
    Sydney Radio 2GB Michael McLaren speaks with Peter Leahy, former chief of the Australian Army, who says we’re in for a long war between secular societies and radical Islamists intent on implementing strict sharia law.

    So because we have an inadequate immigration policy we now have to have a 100 year war? Why?

    Ask the ALP why they implemented an inadequate immigration policy. It seems for votes.

  62. srr

    The real education comes in observing just who in our western society lap up the lies and spread them.

    Like every observer, commentator, politician, leader and wanna-be leader, who are now claiming to be “shocked” by only one image of the barbaric inhumanity religiously taught, practiced and celebrated by Muslims.

    Particularly when they also invented 18c to make it illegal to shock people out of their delusion that Islam is all peace and love, with the facts of cold hard severed heads and worse, that Muslim children are bred to lust for.

  63. …and you wanted me to explain what smug was. FFS, give it a rest.

    You’re welcome.

    :)

  64. rickw

    Saudi Arabia for some time has been exporting a particularly toxic brand of Islam – wahhabism. This has been gaining traction around the world for some time, including in SE Asia. Their program has been particularly successful because it linked together the provision of food, general education and education in radical Islam. There has now been several generations pass through this “education” system.

    As a whole, these radicalized Sunni’s are now bent on killing the Shia’s, the Christians, The Jews and anyone else in between while they go and try and establish a Caliphate. A significant proportion of 1st generation Australian Muslims have latched onto this in an attempt to be “more muslim”. It should also be noted that the first large influx of Muslims to Australia were not of a particularly good background in the first place, having chosen to pretty much destroy “Paris on the Mediterranean” rather than work things out.

    Subsequent migrations of Muslims to Australia have probably been even worse with respect to an extreme interpretation of Islam with the exception of the Shia Iranians. Muslims I know who arrived in the first influx from Lebanon have certainly expressed this opinion. So how radicalized are Australia’s Muslims? There is certainly an extremist core, but how many doesn’t really matter. The bottom line is that when push comes to shove, the vast majority of Muslims will side with their fellow Muslims rather than “Team Australia”, regardless of how radical or barbaric they might consider them to be. The only group of Muslims that might side with “Team Australia” would be the Shia Muslims, out of self preservation rather than any great love of Australia, and even then that is very far from guaranteed.

    The bottom line is that a very significant proportion of Muslims consider that there is a Great War coming which will be fought to establish a Caliphate. I have heard this expressed by several Muslims I know who are university educated, I doubt that this view would get any more moderate as you interviewed Muslim motor mechanics, butchers or disability pensioners. Muslim will side with Muslim above and beyond any act of barbarity or depravity, this is perfectly reflected in the muted response by Islamic Leaders to pretty much anything done in the name of Islam. They might personally consider an act to be barbaric, but they will not condemn their Muslim Brother, let alone act against him.

    Peter Leahy is completely right in that we are faced with a 100 years war, but that is only if we chose to fight it in a “proportionate” way. The head holding by many Australian Muslims is actually a very good thing. They are lifting the veil on what many Muslims believe, and more importantly on what a very large number of Muslims will tolerate within their community. They have also opened eyes to the fact that there will be very few who can be considered “non combatant”. When the time comes as a result of Muslim barbarity on our own soil, all this means that we will be much less likely to fall into the trap of a proportionate response.

  65. Gertrude

    Oh! Oh!

    Coup underway in Iraq… maybe.

    So, if the tables are turned will Australia get frantic calls from Aussie Jihad Tourists to come rescue them?

    That’d be just too bad.

  66. Bruce of Newcastle

    Such a charming family:

    Boy’s uncle says forget about photo of severed head

    But Khaled Sharrouf’s brother believes Australia should simply “forget” about a photo of his young nephew holding the severed head of a Syrian soldier. As the shocking image of Sharrouf’s son travelled around the world on Monday, Mostafa Sharrouf, a stonemason from Sydney’s western suburbs, said: “He’s gone, forget about it. He’s forgotten about youse. I’m sure you’ve seen much worse than that.”

    Sharrouf, 33, slipped out of Australia last year using Mostafa’s passport and travelled with his four children to Syria and Iraq, where he has been fighting with the terrorist rebel group Islamic State.

    However, when asked about the safety of his nephews, Mostafa said there was “nothing for you to ask about”.

    In 2009, Sharrouf’s wife Tara Nettleton told a court that the family planned to move to a farm after his release from prison to “get away from everything … and stay out of trouble”.

    “He often tells me … that he can’t wait to be able to return home so that he can have a chance to make up to his children all the time that was missed and get to know them again,” she said.

    Clearly from the picture he has got his wish now about spending some quality time with his kids.

  67. Grant B

    The Iraqi government is a basket case. The sooner the West arm and back up the Kurds to the maximum possible military extent, the better.

  68. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    Our anti-semitic white supremacist:

    The image of the child struggling the severed head of a syrian soldier should be condemned on many levels.

    First – it is absolute barbarism – completely unacceptable in the 21 st century.

    Secondly, it represents the absolute abuse of parenting, where a father (you would assume) coerces his son to participate in the barbarity, and no doubt to overcome the abhorrence any normal child would hold for this action.

    Thirdly, it represents the use of the innocence of a child by the western media, which has fallen for the bait, and used it to stir up fear and loathing in an audience which so easily falls prey to that very fear and loathing which can then be exploited by unscrupulous politicians on many levels, to add to the violence and spread it worldwide.

    In other words, the outcome has been exactly what the perpetrators intended.

    Their intent is clear – the queue of sandals worn by children waiting to have their photograph taken to add to the store of material available to whip up the conflagration of hate.

    They win every time, and you are aiding and abetting them.

    Hmm….
    It has taken years with Stalin’s butt-boy, but there is a faint, faint possibility that he’s actually starting to think Islamic terrorism is bad!

    Of course, it’s far more likely that he’s just upset that the head did not belong to a Jew. Let’s see if he keeps defending Hamas for endless war crimes, use of human shields, putting weapons in and firing from hospitals, mosques and residential areas etc etc etc etc


    Oh, wait a bit, what’s this?

    it represents the use of the innocence of a child by the western media, which has fallen for the bait, and used it to stir up fear and loathing in an audience which so easily falls prey to that very fear and loathing which can then be exploited

    Oho! So it’s the media’s fault for using the image he’s really upset about!

    Because it might get people upset about ISIS and their barbarity. SO, no change then, his condemnation is really reserved for the media who are – for once – showing the reality of Islamic terrorism.

  69. Bruce of Newcastle

    U.S. ‘fully supports’ new Iraqi president

    That was probably Joe Biden’s moment of glory, since Obama is off playing golf and Hagel and Kerry are in Sydney for an ANZUS meeting.

  70. Gertrude

    What too many people don’t seem to understand that this, beheading and murder and blood, is not radical islam. It is islam as described in the koran and hadith. This is normal islam. This is the islam that it taught to followers.

  71. tomix

    stackja at 6:24 pm

    Ask the ALP why they implemented an inadequate immigration policy. It seems for votes.

    The Gorton Liberal Gov’t in 1970 were the ones who started it with immigrants from the Lebanon.

    srr at 6:36 pm

    The real education comes in observing just who in our western society lap up the lies and spread them.
    Like every observer, commentator, politician, leader and wanna-be……..
    Particularly when they also invented 18c to make it illegal to shock people out of their delusion that Islam is all peace and love, with the facts

    You’re spreading a few just now, SIT. Australian Jewish organisations were the driving force behind S 18c originally, and from what has been in the opinion pages of The Australian since the federal election, are still backing it.

  72. cynical1

    This is the pic that gets me.

    http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/files/2014/08/Isis-is-evil.jpg

    It’s not brutal but it’s emotionally heartbreaking.

    I think I could stoop (nearly) to their level.

    I could shoot these bastards in the head.

    And then go find some more of ‘em…

  73. Notafan

    Exactly, giggling. Just like lapidation is the prescribed punishment for adultery.

  74. Anne

    Tomix, I apologise.

    I’ve got new hardware and I can’t find the sarc key.

  75. Matthew

    You’re spreading a few just now, SIT. Australian Jewish organisations were the driving force behind S 18c originally, and from what has been in the opinion pages of The Australian since the federal election, are still backing it.

    I will admit that I was shocked that Tony Abbott indicated that it was to appease Muslims that he dropped the repeal of 18c. Then again the PM could hardly say that Australians can’t have free speech because Jews don’t want to. That would be antisemitic.

  76. tomix

    No need for the sarc key, Anne

  77. Notafan

    Just as well Elomar’s wife didn’t manage to get their four kids over there or there would have been even more heady happy snaps.
    Does these mothers have the slightest twinge of regret about what they are doing to their children?

  78. tomix

    It would indeed be anti-Semitic of Abbott to say that.

    Wonder what will happen if a resolution of the Palestine issue ever happens. My reading of history pre 20th. Century is that Islam and Judaism have historically been on excellent terms.

  79. Gab

    Does these mothers have the slightest twinge of regret about what they are doing to their children?

    When you’ve been brainwashed from the age of three to hate the infidels, kill the infidels and that to do so brings a great honour on your family and a fabulous reward in paradise for you, the mothers do not have the tiniest bit of regret about what they are perpetrating on their children. They cannot see any other way. Apart from them being brainwashed and forced to never question their cult and their imams, they’re also not very bright in the brain department.

  80. stackja

    tomix
    #1412840, posted on August 11, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    The Roar of Lions: The Asymmetric Campaigns of Muhammad
    Russell G. Rodgers

    In making the Second Pledge of Aqabah, the tribal leaders of these two groups told Muhammad that making the covenant with him would require that they break their treaties with the major Jewish tribes in Madinah.
    Muhammad concurred and supported this action, information that was apparently kept from the Jewish tribal leaders.
    While minor Jewish clans entered into this agreement, the three major Jewish tribes, the Banu Qaynuqa, al-Nadir, and Qurayzah, were not included. This is a critical issue, often neglected or distorted in histories and biographies.
    Muhammad set out to organize his base and prepare to engage the Quraysh at their weakest link—their economic livelihood. The mission was, in the words of his closest supporter Abu Bakr, to bring people to Allah and the right path, and “those who deviated from it, they were punished by the Messenger of Allah till they became Muslim.”

  81. Rudiau

    junior division
    Very good.

  82. Anne

    Does these mothers have the slightest twinge of regret about what they are doing to their children?

    What Gab said… plus,

    Allah gives and Allah takes away.

    This from a Muslim woman whose infant son had received life saving surgery in an Israeli hospital. She said she would raise him to hate and kill Jews.
    These people are poisonous.

  83. JC

    This is the pic that gets me.

    http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/files/2014/08/Isis-is-evil.jpg

    It’s not brutal but it’s emotionally heartbreaking.

    I think I could stoop (nearly) to their level.

    I could shoot these bastards in the head.

    And then go find some more of ‘em…

    Are we sure these aren’t propaganda pics as you need to be very careful with this stuff at the moment. That little child is wearing what appears to me to be half heavy winter clothes. It has on a woolen cap and a woolen jacket. It’s the height of summer in Iraq at the moment which means temps of around 45 degs day and night. Who the fuck would dress a kid in that attire in the middle of summer?

  84. tomix

    Here’s my reading of it. Congress told Obama that the hicks back in the boondocks wouldn’t accept a U.S. war on Syria. A few atrocity stories later and the Media are begging Obama for a bombing campaign in Iraq and Kurdistan, and he obliges.

    Next development: The Kurds join the war on Assad, a few Syrian atrocity stories, and Obama has got his war on Syria.

  85. .

    No, ’cause that would just stop muzzies from coming here. We’d still have those pesky Buddhists and Hindus blowing up stuff. Atheist homosexuals are very dangerous.

    Plus the near half million of them that are already here and might want to live for another 70 or so years…and we have a presumption of innocence.

  86. .

    srr
    #1412728, posted on August 11, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    You clown.

    Putin is losing in the Ukraine as justice demands, foreign fighters fighting for him are Spanish Republicans (read: Communists) and I fully back that ISIS be bombed harder than the Plain of Jars.

  87. .

    Philippa Martyr
    #1412753, posted on August 11, 2014 at 6:40 pm
    …and you wanted me to explain what smug was. FFS, give it a rest.

    You’re welcome.

    :)

    Damn you vile woman!

  88. Anne

    JC, you should be a detective.

    …wait a minute, isn’t it really cold in the desert at night!

  89. JC

    JC, you should be a detective.

    …wait a minute, isn’t it really cold in the desert at night!

    Not necessarily. Take a look at Baghdad’s temp which I checked before I posted that comment. That shithole is inland and would resemble the temps of the areas under attack presumably. Day or night, the temps doesn’t move below 40 degrees. Sure, you would need to consider elevation, but I don’t think the plateaus in Iraq are high to any degree.

    Look, I doubt that pic and it may have been Photoshopped. That’s all.

    Oh and I would have made a great detective.. one of the great ones.

  90. JC

    One other thing, Anne. It looks like day time.

  91. Michel Lasouris

    Several months ago, I was sickened and deeply frightened at the images of unbelievable barbarism displayed by the followers of the so-called prophet Mohammed of the Islamic Caliphate.
    But as with all things, the more I saw, the less troubled I was, so that now I can comfortably contemplate a beheading or two.
    Inured by the images of the two Nigerians who stood, brazenly defending their mutilation of Corporal Rigby in broad daylight on a London street, now I’m looking for a suitable knife, nice and sharp, that I can use to decapitate any Muslim man, woman, or child that has the temerity to piss me off.
    Can’t be that hard if the child of Satan can do it.

    [I have corrected your spelling mistake. Please let it have been a spelling mistake and not anything else. Sinc]

  92. federalfarmer

    [Comment deleted. Sinc]

  93. Grant B

    federalfarmer – you are a tosspot. Go away.

  94. Aristogeiton

    federalfarmer
    #1412976, posted on August 11, 2014 at 9:13 pm
    Comment deleted. Sinc

    I’d like to knock the teeth out of your face.

  95. tomix

    Give Bali a miss, federalfarmer. You won’t like what you see there..

  96. cynical1

    http://www.catholic.org/news/international/middle_east/story.php?id=56481

    Here’s where the pic of the little girl came from.

    Be warned, the stuff is EXTREMELY graphic.

    Apparently, it was Mosul.

  97. Matthew

    Inured by the images of the two Niggerians who stood

    Really now. That is pretty funny but very unsubtle. Unless you could convince a kangaroo court that it was a typo, you may fall afoul of 18c.

  98. Notafan

    Gab Anne the problem with the mother of this little boy is she appears to be a convert.

  99. Aristogeiton

    Big funny, Matthew. Drop your n-word in some of the more unsavory parts of Baltimore and get back to me, hero.

  100. Notafan

    Yes khaled Sharrouf is married to a Tara Nettleton who is a convert to islam

  101. M Ryutin

    rickw August 11, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    Very prescient rickw. And on a number of fronts.

    Firstly, “the war”. With all the shock/horror at Leay’s claim of a 100 year war, it actually started 20 years ago from Al Queada’s point of view (probably from First World trade Centre bombing) and we have known we had to fight back for over a dozen years aready (If anyone didn’t realise by 911 that there was an old-fashioned but global war to be fought against medieval Islamism they need to be locked away so they don’t come to harm).

    You are also spot on about Muslims expecting this war and our response must be to believe the polls of Muslims – that when they say they want sharia or that they have loyalty to Islamism rather than to Australia they bloody well mean it.

    As for the rest, it is irrelevant to me. Unless people accept that this is a war against more than just the murderous Islamist killers and their enablers, but that it has to also put the spotlight on their ideological beliefs, it is all useless talk. Unless the very battle of beliefs is also fought, the battle will never be won. Truly moderate Muslims recognise this, not, I must say, Australian but Asian Muslim leaders.

  102. Matthew

    Big funny, Matthew. Drop your n-word in some of the more unsavory parts of Baltimore and get back to me, hero.

    Translation of Aristogeitonese: black neighbourhoods are unsavory, black people are violent.
    ————————————

    While you are in Baltimore ask the locals to tell you what a cut and paste of a quote is.

  103. Aristogeiton

    Fuck you Matthew. Hey, why don’t you start calling Jewish people K-I-K-Es? Go on, hero.

  104. Aristogeiton

    Also, Matthew, I’ll break your face if you drop “n***er” in front of my wife. Does that make me a violent “black”?

  105. sabrina

    These people are pure evil.

  106. Matthew

    Fuck you Matthew. Hey, why don’t you start calling Jewish people K-I-K-Es? Go on, hero.

    Also, Matthew, I’ll break your face if you drop “n***er” in front of my wife. Does that make me a violent “black”?

    I don’t use slurs, period. I decline your suggestion.

    Aristogeiton, your Freudian slip is all I need to know about you.

    Also it looks like we have gone from ‘I have black friends’ to ‘I have a black wife’ as a cover for prejudice.

    As for your threats, shove it. You have threatened 20 or 30 people on this site so far, I would say. How many threats have you carried out? Zero. Loser.

  107. Aristogeiton

    Lol. Fuck off bigot.

  108. Sinclair Davidson

    Hi Tillers.

    Why am I the last person to find out that Tillman is back?

  109. JC

    Is Arial Tillman? Fme, I didn’t click.

    Hey Tillman, recall how you left last time in a huff, or rather how you were blog beheaded in the middle of the stoush we were having…. Do you recall the stoush, as I don’t, but if you do, I’d like to restart that one too.

  110. Fisky

    Is Arial Tillman? Fme, I didn’t click.

    I thought he was an ALP member. What you doing joining the LDP, Ari?

  111. Aristogeiton

    Sinc, who is Tillman? Federalfarmer?

  112. JC

    Sinc, who is Tillman? Federalfarmer?

    What a dead giveaway. Stop the pretense as he isn’t likely to blog behead you this time round I think.
    Man the fuck up.

  113. Aristogeiton

    The fuck are you talking about Fisky? Name one ALP policy I’ve supported. I’ll wait.

  114. Infidel Tiger

    Ari is not Tillman.

  115. Fisky

    The fuck are you talking about Fisky? Name one ALP policy I’ve supported. I’ll wait.

    OK, I guess you’re not Tillman then. Forget about it.

  116. Aristogeiton

    No fucking idea who Tillman is… I’ve been here a year and don’t remember him or her…

  117. JC

    Ari is not Tillman.

    Yea she is. Arial showed up here purporting he was a newbie. But he knew the long history of the blog…. new about Jason S. He also discussed Birdie’s anti-Semite affliction. No newbie knows that history. Stop the metrosexual lack of observance.

  118. Gab

    No fucking idea who Tillman is… I’ve been here a year and don’t remember him or her…

    But you told us you remember reading Jason Soon here.

  119. Aristogeiton

    About Jason Soon, Gab, you puddle of piss.

  120. JC

    I’ve been here a year and don’t remember him or her…

    No you haven’t. You’ve been here as Arial about 2 months tops. And even if you’ve been here a year you certainly wouldn’t have been confident enough to discuss the long back history of the Cat like you did once. Stop the lying.

  121. Infidel Tiger

    Tillman did once say he had a black wife. He also claimed he had the opportunity to push Joe Lieberman under a train but held back.

    However, If Ari was Tillman, his CL obsession would have come out by now.

  122. Gab

    Gab, you puddle of piss.

    You are such a lovely person, always with the abuse.

  123. JC

    However, If Ari was Tillman, his CL obsession would have come out by now.

    It came out of the closet a little today, no?

  124. Aristogeiton

    I expected better of you Sinc, if it’s the case that you’re accusing me of being this Tillman person. Weak mate…

  125. Infidel Tiger

    Let’s discuss Edmund Campion and find out for sure.

  126. JC

    I expected better of you Sinc, if it’s the case that you’re accusing me of being this Tillman person. Weak mate…

    Accusing? It’s not as though TIllman was a child molester to anything, Tillman. HE just had a small flip out and got himself beheaded. Happens to the best of us.

  127. Fisky

    Ari’s tone is not much like Tillman’s at all.

  128. Gab

    I expected better of you Sinc, if it’s the case that you’re accusing me of being this Tillman person. Weak mate…

    What? You’re not calling Sinclair a “puddle of piss”. OIC.

  129. JC

    I’m off to watch Ray Donovan. Don’t stoush.

  130. Matthew

    What? You’re not calling Sinclair a “puddle of piss”. OIC.

    Apparently not, lol. It’s “I’m not the abusive, threatening troll that you think I am, mate“.

  131. Aristogeiton

    So fucking sad. Every time somebody comes along who disagrees with the hive-mind he has to be someone masquerading as another. It’s ridiculous in my case as I’m a pretty bog-standard libertarian. Now what would such a lunatic be doing here, of all places? I’m beginning to ask myself.

  132. Aristogeiton

    Lol. Gab and Matthew, you reap what you sow…

  133. wreckage

    OK, so. Muslims can sign a declaration that they do not now, and will never, believe or say that beheading apostates is OK. Those organisations that are willing to sign that, and publicly affirm it, are declared moderate and religious. Those that do not are declared terrorist political organisations.

    Seems reasonable to me.

  134. Matthew

    OK, so. Muslims can sign a declaration that they do not now, and will never, believe or say that beheading apostates is OK. Those organisations that are willing to sign that, and publicly affirm it, are declared moderate and religious. Those that do not are declared terrorist political organisations.

    Seems reasonable to me.

    What happens when a person refuses to sign for whatever reason, including conscience? It would never work and would likely stimulate the terrorism that you want to prevent.

    Forget about fixes and social engineering. Just put the immigration policy to rights and we need not have this century of war. It is so simple. If immigration is not put to rights then we will have an increasingly large Muslim population demanding that the state recognise and foster their religion. We have a choice in this.

  135. As I suggested obliquely yesterday, unless Muslims en masse demonstrate their repugnance about what is going on in Iraq and Syria – and elsewhere if they please – via a ‘Not in Our Name’ protest, I’m not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Silence, sorry to say, is complicity, in this instance.

  136. wreckage

    “What happens when a person refuses to sign for whatever reason, including conscience?”

    Fuck ‘em. If your conscience forbids you from NOT MURDERING PEOPLE then you can go to prison, or hell, I don’t care which.

  137. Helen

    JC, Mosul temp can get low, even in summer, recent minimums being June 11C, July 17C, Aug 16C. By the light in the pic it is early morning.

    You are right, one needs to be careful about ‘staged pics’ given what has come out of Gaza, but no-one ‘staged’ the pic of the girl with her throat cut so her blood could be collected in a bucket, and no-one could ‘stage’ the pic of the baby girl with her head cut off.

    Even if these happened at another time they are still abhorrent, and if it wasn’t ISIS it also wasn’t the local christian youth group.

  138. Senile Old Guy

    No you haven’t. You’ve been here as Arial about 2 months tops.

    Ari has posts from February 2012.

  139. Aristogeiton

    Started posting here mid/late 2013. The lies just keep on changing. First I was some Bolthead blow-in, who admitted he used to post at Bolta’s (lie). Now I’ve been here for years in different guises, having mastered the complex history of the ‘Cat. Or something. Some people who post here are just malevolent liars.

  140. Paridell

    Learn some etymology before lecturing us how to write properly, Paridell. I cannot call Manji and the followers of violently militant Islam the same thing. I hope that explains the origin of the word to you.

    Dot, I have taken your advice and studied the etymology of “equivocate”. Here are the fruits of my research:

    equiv-o-cate [ME equivocaten, fr. ML aequivocatus, past part. of aequivoacare, fr. LL aequivocus] 1. : to use equivocal language esp. with intent to deceive (“avoided both persecution and outright lying by equivocating with their questioners”) 2 : to avoid committing oneself in what one says : speak evasively (“he would anger them with frankness before he would equivocate) : be willfully misleading esp. by the use of double meanings syn see LIE

    I’m afraid the upshot is, your riposte not only compounds the original error, but also closes off the possibility I left open that you were being very subtle. In short, “equivocate” ≠ “equate”.

  141. .

    DB believes that Pope Callixtus III and Aelxander VI were good Christians…

    Oh dear. Let’s pretend there were no valid concerns pre reformation.

    The revisionist history presented on the cat is quite ridiculous.

  142. No, no, no, dot. I just found it utterly ridiculous that you responded to Philippa’s reasonable comment with a “Look over there, the Borgia Popes!” Beyond parody.

  143. .

    It isn’t beyond parody at all.

    The point is religion in different times or places isn’t necessarily the same.

  144. We know that, that was Philippa’s point when she said that you understand religion, and here, Islam, through the prism of Christianity, which is to say as if they were the same, which they are not.

  145. kaetrude

    Libertarian policy, allow all Gazans to live and work in Israel?

    Suicide policy for Israel.

  146. stackja

    Now we have supposedly barbarism by earlier Popes?

  147. .

    dover_beach
    #1413928, posted on August 12, 2014 at 12:34 pm
    We know that, that was Philippa’s point when she said that you understand religion, and here, Islam, through the prism of Christianity, which is to say as if they were the same, which they are not.

    No.

    “We know what you understand, but we refuse to think that religion as it is practiced can change”

    This is the height of navel gazing arrogance.

  148. .

    kaetrude
    #1413941, posted on August 12, 2014 at 12:45 pm
    Libertarian policy, allow all Gazans to live and work in Israel?

    Suicide policy for Israel.

    Trolling across threads with lies that Fisk produces? Haven’t you got anything better to do?

  149. kaetrude

    Jeez, dot.

    That was uncalled for.

    I don’t think that opening up Israel would be a safe thing for them to do.

    So put a sock innit, dot.

  150. Tintarella di Luna

    the Borgia popes

    dot we’re talking here and now – reaching back to the Borgia Popes — why not just say “look over there unicorns” and be done with it

  151. Tintarella di Luna

    oops sorry dot the Borgia popes comment might not have been you – if not apologies – pays to look up

  152. Aristogeiton

    Kae, “innit” is an eroteme/interrogatory particle in modern British slang.

  153. What are you talking about, dot? The range of possibility within a religious tradition is limited by the tradition itself. You talk about religions as if they are the same, as if the range of possibility within any religion is the same, that if we wait they will simply pass through the same developments of other religions as if contingency or the tradition itself has no influence in the matter.

    In other words, you understand Islam through the prism of Christianity and thereby fail to understand it at all.

Comments are closed.