Too embarrassed to use a law they want to keep

Those “Jewish organisations” are two-faced. They know that using these laws against Carlton will discredit them. And so they do not use these wicked laws to defend their community, yet say nothing when those laws are used to muzzle their allies.

That’s Andrew Bolt on why some Jewish organisations haven’t complained about the SHMs anti-Semitism under 18c.

This entry was posted in Freedom of speech, Hypocrisy of progressives. Bookmark the permalink.

100 Responses to Too embarrassed to use a law they want to keep

  1. Zean

    Check out Tim Blair’s blog post on the press release from FAIR, the Forum of Australian Islamic Relations. Filled with half truths and lies without any real remorse.

    Real remorse is protesting in the street. Not typing 3 paragraphs in a letter that almost no one will read.

  2. Nic

    Bolts is correct, however those who spoke out against removing 18C we’re not necessarily rank and file Jews as such

  3. tomix

    Isn’t that the same with the “rank and file” Muslims? They may not agree, but they’re not going to speak up in public.

  4. James of the Glen

    The Jews (without too much understanding of the logistics) asked where Bomber Command was during the war. Now their Australian organisations won’t even remove the 18c AA to have the crews protected during any offensive on their behalf. Very poor form.

  5. Alfonso

    Steyn and Levant had the same problem when they laid waste S13 in Canada.

    The Official Jews did what they always do.
    Hard to support a mob who kneejerk whiteant free speech with so little thought.

  6. Arasaka

    What’s the point of them defending the existence of 18C if they’re not going to use it? It makes no sense whatsoever. Or do they only use it against Holocaust deniers?

  7. Yobbo

    Jews have every right to request such laws. Free speech has hardly worked out well for them in the past.

    Unlike all the other victim groups, they have precedents to cite.

  8. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I am beginning to think that 18c has met its end anyway.
    `

  9. Tel

    The chance of winning is small: Carlton criticised Israel as a nation, and criticised their government political policy. Such criticism is common as bums, the Australian press regularly criticises Iran, Russia, North Korea, occasionally China and Indonesia, and such criticism is aimed at the government policy on the day. It’s completely normal. You don’t have to agree in every case but we can’t make laws imposing forced agreement.

  10. Ant

    As The Great One loves to say in the US, and he’s Jewish, with liberals it’s always about the team – party first! That includes especially the dominant leftist majority amongst Jewish Americans.

    Even as the great tidal wave of reality steadily erodes away what underpins their certainties and ignorances, they will not waiver.

  11. Tel

    Isn’t that the same with the “rank and file” Muslims? They may not agree, but they’re not going to speak up in public.

    That’s exactly why free speech is so valuable, because once it is gone we all become subjugated by the opinions of a small “Official” minority who can claim to speak for all, but no one is allowed to disagree.

  12. harrys on the boat

    The Jew’s in this country are a disgrace to Israel. They wanted 18c kept for fear of anti-semitism, but when it occurs they go silent.

    Can the government pick mordy to be the presiding judge? The lawyers would have a field day drawing attention to his own comments from the Bolt trial.

  13. C.L.

    Jews have every right to request such laws. Free speech has hardly worked out well for them in the past.

    Unlike all the other victim groups, they have precedents to cite.

    The precedents didn’t occur in modern democracies with a rule of law.

    The only broken-down moustachioed corporal talking shit in Australia is Jacqui Lambie.

  14. harrys on the boat

    I disagree Tel. The whole point of 18c is that you only need to prove that its reasonably likely to offend. The cartoon, emails and tweets cover that, let alone the article.

    He’ll get off though and it’ll be hilarious how the socialist riddled judiciary spin it.

  15. Paul

    The only broken-down moustachioed corporal talking shit in Australia is Jacqui Lambie.

    I never thought of her as moustachioed, but now that you’ve said it, a little Zapata would suit her.

  16. Paul

    Perhaps Carlton will produce the photos of the celebratory spectators on the hills overlooking Gaza (unfearful of rockets) and say his cartoon is merely satire?

  17. yet say nothing when those laws are used to muzzle their allies.

    This provides a deep insight into the limits of Bolt’s intelligence.
    He really believes that there are only two kinds of people in the world – goodies and baddies.
    He exhibits a clear case of arrested development.

  18. Chris M

    The only broken-down moustachioed corporal talking shit in Australia is Jacqui Lambie.

    Well Martin Hamilton-Smith… either a shocking turncoat or proof there is no difference been Lib and Lab.

  19. The only broken-down moustachioed corporal talking shit in Australia is Jacqui Lambie.

    CL, is it too late to tell you once more that I love you?

  20. This provides a deep insight into the limits of Bolt’s intelligence.
    He really believes that there are only two kinds of people in the world – goodies and baddies.
    He exhibits a clear case of arrested development.

    Takes one to know one.

  21. stackja

    SHMs anti-Semitism under 18c.

    Is that the Sydney Herald Hamas?
    Not the Sydney Morning Hamas?
    Hoping:

    “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.
    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

  22. thefrollickingmole

    On the one hand I can understand “lets not use it for something trivial” on the other hand if you wait till its a huge issue then youve probably waited too long.

    The best way to deal with idiots is ridicule.
    Some such as a certain commenter above are of the “self saucing” variety and ridicule themselves regularly with odd comments..

    Unfortunately the glorious organs of out intelligentsia/comedy are restrained from satire in part because of the 18c laws. Or if they are a little scared of backlash or violence it gives them a reason not to go there in the first place.

    One of the best, most even handed mockers of religion (and he covered quite a few) is the left liberal John Safran. His Safran Vs God was excellent, and yes, he did the muslim angle with his “jihad on Rove” episode.

  23. Bern1

    Gee Lizzie you are a good sort.

  24. He’ll get off though and it’ll be hilarious how the socialist riddled judiciary spin it.

    And that’s a good thing. Leftist hypocrisy should have a permanent great fucking big torch shone on it.

  25. Token

    Jews have every right to request such laws. Free speech has hardly worked out well for them in the past.

    Unlike all the other victim groups, they have precedents to cite.

    It is a pity that after loading that gun they left it on a table where the binge drinking teenagers are playing…

  26. David

    The Jew’s in this country are a disgrace to Israel

    Pretty broad statement Harry. Care to explain how each and every Australian who happens to be Jewish is a disgrace to Israel? Almost an 18C statement but hey what the hell – I believe you are free to make an ass of yourself.

  27. Jim from Qld

    You spoke to0 soon friends!

    Brace yourselves

  28. Tel

    I disagree Tel. The whole point of 18c is that you only need to prove that its reasonably likely to offend. The cartoon, emails and tweets cover that, let alone the article.

    So you are saying that criticism of any nation’s foreign policy at any time, could offend someone and is therefore illegal?!?

  29. He really believes that there are only two kinds of people in the world – goodies and baddies.

    And obviously, so do you. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be anti-Catallaxy on every post.

    Like all leftists, goodies and baddies are judged on the basis of what they think – those that think right and those that do not. Bolt, on the other hand, thinks goodies are those that do good. How old-fashioned, how conservative!!

    Get yourself a mirror.

  30. So you are saying that criticism of any nation’s foreign policy at any time, could offend someone and is therefore illegal?!?

    Tel, I think Harry’s saying that 18c says that. Highlighting the stupidity of that assertion is, by definition, highlighting the absurdity of 18c.

  31. DaveA

    Those who believe 18C rulings are based on the sound application of existing law and principles should be able to tell us the likely outcome of these Carlton complaints NOW.

  32. Token

    Those who believe 18C rulings are based on the sound application of existing law and principles …

    Are you referring to how the former ALP candidate and S&P lawyer read buit his decision on what was not written but he implied from Bolt’s article about middle class city people taking funds for very poor rural aboriginals?

  33. Dr. Sir Fred Lenin

    Anther Half Assed though bubble from the fevered minds of academic socialists.I have an idea to strgnthen the socialist grip on society,and shut our critics down fir good ,said some Fascist Communist Troll,” what a great idea said the white indigents the islamofascists and the cultimultural public fund bludgers.

  34. Tel

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/julie-bishop-stares-down-russia-over-mh17-tragedy-20140812-103c8f.html

    Any intervention by Russia into Ukraine under the guise of a humanitarian crisis will be seen as the transparent artifice that it is and Australia would condemn in the strongest possible terms any effort by Russia to enter Ukraine under the guise of some kind of humanitarian mission.’

    Some Russians might be offended that their trucks carrying bags of flour and sugar to hungry people are accused without evidence. Better get 18c on the job, it’s waaaaaaacist!

  35. DaveA

    Are you referring to how the former ALP candidate and S&P lawyer read buit his decision on what was not written but he implied from Bolt’s article about middle class city people taking funds for very poor rural aboriginals?

    I believe so (had to look up buit!).

    Lefties were all nodding their heads (and continue) at how perfectly sensible the judgement was, but prior to no person had a single flying clue as to how it might go.

    It’s a Choose Your Own Adventure Law Interpretation.

    “factual mistakes” in particular came from left field.

  36. harrys on the boat

    That’s why 18c is bullshit, Tel. The wording of it basically allows for practically anyone to take offence.

  37. Paridell

    Jews have every right to request such laws. Free speech has hardly worked out well for them in the past.

    Free speech has indeed worked out well for Jews, in those places where it has flourished. Can you imagine Disraeli saying that he needed the “protection” of a law like 18c?

    The places where Jews have suffered, such as Czarist Russia and Nazi Germany, were hardly bastions of free speech. Even in the Weimar Republic and inter-war Poland, left-wing or Zionist Jews who wanted to speak out were often cautioned by their relations and colleagues not to make a fuss because “it will all blow over, you will only inflame the anti-Semites”. Latter-day appeals for “educational” laws like 18c in Australia and Canada were retrospective attempts to avert dangers that existed long ago and far away. In our own time they have proven to be completely ineffective in preventing the re-emergence of the most virulent forms of anti-Semitism. But they have been effective in white-anting the protections that free speech underpins for Jews and everyone else in a democratic country.

  38. DaveA

    18D is the exemption list.

    Academic/journalistic discourse, good faith yaddy yadda, is exempt.

    When you’ve told people to get fucked it won’t be exempt, but those insults were private and published by others.

    Article, cartoon (not by Carlton), tweets, private emails made public. SMH and Carlton.

    Can a lasoo be thrown around the whole lot?

    Does one exemption voider affect the others?

    Massive degrees of freedom for a judge here.

  39. Bill

    The cartoon might be found guilty – it is a racial stereotype and would certainly cause offense. But Carlton himself referred only to Israel, Israeli’s etc (correct me if that’s wrong).

    Like “Islam”, “Israel” is not a race.

  40. EB

    You can see where this will go. Tit for tat nonsense. Every nuisance maker with a grudge will be dragging their media enemy into court over preceived slights.

    The halfwits will be hollering “we get to test the laws to show they work appropriately this time”. But whatever happens here isn’t the real outcome. It’s the fact people will be intimidated.

    If you think Carlton should fry because Bolt did, you’re an enemy of freedom. Neither of them should have had to face this.

  41. DaveA

    Don’t agree with final paragraph EB. The war is not the battle. A strategy which highlights the law’s failings can defeat it.

  42. .

    Just get rid of the law. It is utterly odious.

  43. Mr Skeletor

    You totally miss the point EB.
    When everyone is getting fried by it, everyone will want it gone.

  44. Rabz

    Leftist hypocrisy should have a permanent great fucking big torch shone on it.

    Like it’s made any difference over the last few decades.

    Leftists are now more obnoxious, more hair trigger touchy and more straight out, cat hurling, carpet munching, stark raving bonkers than ever.

    Quite frankly, they appear to have transcended the seemingly arbitrary construct that is reality and now exist in some sort of bizarre parallel universe that they are increasing trying to force me to also exist in.

    Needless to say, I am not happy about this development, I tells ya! :x

  45. Max

    So you are saying that criticism of any nation’s foreign policy at any time, could offend someone and is therefore illegal?!?

    Thats the path we’re on with 18C, In the not too distant future the phase “Islamic Terrorism” will offend someone and under 18C we’ll have to call them “Militants”.

    Can you imagine, immigrating to say Japan and then DICTATING to your host nation what they can say and how they can say it. The Chinese, the Israelites, and everyone else who lobbied for 18c must be laughing at us.

  46. Max

    Some Aussie Russians (pref hotties) should take Abbott666 to court under 18c for criticising Russia and thereby giving the a bad case of hurtie feeeeelings.

  47. Tim Neilson

    Re the Jews having bad experiences where free speech was allowed:, my understanding is that the Weimar Republic had very stringent anti-hate speech laws.

  48. Token

    You totally miss the point EB.
    When everyone is getting fried by it, everyone will want it gone.

    This was designed to be create division and pay for the private school fees in top schools for the kids of the legal mates of Lavarch.

    It appears it is working as planned (except it is the school fees of the grandkids of Lavarchs legal mates which are being paid for).

  49. Roger

    Re the Jews having bad experiences where free speech was allowed:, my understanding is that the Weimar Republic had very stringent anti-hate speech laws.
    Look here.

  50. Speedbox

    Some Aussie Russians (pref hotties) should take Abbott666 to court under 18c for criticising Russia and thereby giving the a bad case of hurtie feeeeelings.

    Funny thing Max (and Tel). My wife is Russian (and yes Max, a genuine hottie) and she has been very offended by some of the characterisations of Russians in the media. I should explain that she is now an Australian citizen having been here for 15 years, given me 3 chidren, is not fond of Putin and, refers to the rebels in the Ukraine as “lunatics”.

    But, Russia is her Motherland and she is living proof of the saying that you “can take the girl out of Russia but…..”

    And although it would never occur to her to commence action under 18C, the foolishness of that particular Clause appears to be in the words “offend” and worse, the Courts “interpretation” of the intent. That different people have different levels of tolerance to offence is self-evident, but the problem arises where those with genuinely (or artificially) low levels of tolerance can utilise 18C to effectively gag debate.

    Why should my ability to speak my opinion be determined by somebody elses level of tolerance? (Provided my opinion does not exhort violence/uprising etc.) I agree that the current situation is just….. bizarre.

  51. manalive

    “I fully support this suing of Mike Carlton …” sounds bitchy to me.

  52. Wozzup

    While I fully understand the knee-jerk reaction from those in the Jewish community against removing 18c, I have always thought it to be short sighted in the extreme. Anti-Semites, especially the violent ones are not in the least bit deterred by threat of prosecution and legal sanctions.

    Activist Muslims in particular have learned that weak, insipid, cowardly politicians on the hunt for votes, particularly those with leftist leanings will always appease, appease, appease and never call them on their hate speech. Instead they play down their hatred and atrocities and pretend they have nothing to do with Islam or that it is limited to a tiny extremist minority. (Relax, watch footy, have another beer. Its all under control).

    Which means that all 18c achieves is to silence the critics of the haters not the haters themselves. Given a choice the political Left in its hypocrisy and its dotage will only ever use such prohibitions against their ideological enemies – conservatives, never against the real enemies of civilization, their allies. The Left after all is complicit in such organizations as the UN in helping radical Islam create Orwellian double speak which redefines murder, slaughter and human rights abuses as – human rights. This is the world we live in today.

    I support the removal of 18c, particularly the bit which prohibits “offending” which sets the bar so low that it is merely a means of silencing those who wish to speak out and tell the truth. It will never silence the haters themselves. Given it is still on the books, my sense of irony makes me feel satisfied that Carlton is being brought to account as he went far beyond offending Jews – his hate speech bordered on vilification and incitement IMHO. And this is unacceptable, 18c or no 18c.

    So, on the whole I think that what happened to Carlton was that he has already got his just deserts. He spoke hate talk – and the community backlash forced him to quit and his reputation has been traduced – largely by himself. That is how it is supposed to work. That is what is supposed to happen. As they say the best disinfectant is sunlight – we don’t need 18c.

  53. pete m

    I’m offended whenever someone finds offense with free speech.

    Who do I sue?

  54. Roger

    Why should my ability to speak my opinion be determined by somebody elses level of tolerance? (Provided my opinion does not exhort violence/uprising etc.)

    Precisely put.
    And we already have laws to deal with incitement to violence and sedition.
    So why 18(c)?

  55. struth

    No ones got fried by 18c but a right winger. When that changes let me know.

  56. cohenite

    The only broken-down moustachioed corporal talking shit in Australia is Jacqui Lambie.

    I almost laughed when I read that; throw a few more will you; I may crack a smile yet.

  57. rich

    [quote]No ones got fried by 18c but a right winger. When that changes let me know.[/quote]
    That’s because only right wingers, conservatives and libertarians are racists, right? according to the media. Acknowledging that the “right winger” might have a coherent point that humanises them… that is not allowed, heretics are meant to be hated.

    For someone like Mike Carlton and his potty mouth, however, wagons are circled to protect him by our “Race Discrimination Commissioner” and other luvvies. It’s not a principle it’s the side they are defending. The luvvies only believe that they are human… everyone else is a knuckle dragging troglodyte, like Bolt or Tony Abbott.

  58. Angus Black

    The worst of it is that I just know I’m going to end up footing the bill for this (yes, I take my role as a taxpayer Personally

    I can feel it I’m water.

  59. Angus Black

    I’m –> in my

    Don’t you just love iPads?

  60. Rabz

    we don’t need 18c

    Correct – and precisely why a crazed leftist bigot like Dame Carlton needs to be dragged through 18c hell, which will inevitably increase the clamour to get rid of it.

    P.S. As much as I utterly despise Carlton, I will defend his right to abuse people and suffer the consequences for doing so, which ideally would not include being persecuted by the state. He will now have the honour of becoming another Free Speech Martyr, along with his good friend Mr Bolt.

  61. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Yep, Burn1 it is true that I am a very good sort.
    I am offended that you have been sexist enough to recognise this truth.
    Think I’ll 18c you. That should kill off this silly law completely.

  62. tomix

    Off topic, but the problem with continually calling socialists like Bolt and Abbott right wingers, extremists, troglodytes etc., is that the boundaries of discussion are being shifted leftwards, which only serves the Fabian agenda.

  63. Frederic

    Re the Jews having bad experiences where free speech was allowed:, my understanding is that the Weimar Republic had very stringent anti-hate speech laws.

    Hitler was legally forbidden from any public speech under the Weimar Republic

  64. Frederic

    Why is my gravatar a swastika? How do I change it?

  65. Quite frankly, they appear to have transcended the seemingly arbitrary construct that is reality and now exist in some sort of bizarre parallel universe that they are increasing trying to force me to also exist in.

    Rabz, it’s not about them. It’s about highlighting the blatant hypocrisy to those on the fringes, those still with a tenuous grasp on reality, that may pause to think. These are the swing voters and those workers of which Labor has stabbed in the back of which this reality is slowly dawning on. The beyond-help extreme left need to be isolated from the sensible and treated as the pariahs they are. Keeping the torch on them is the only way to do that. For this purpose, I prefer the old-fashioned torches of flame – heatand light.

  66. Rabz

    BW – your point is correct, but the only way I was able to renounce leftism myself, was to sit down one day and denounce my utter hypocrisy and dishonesty, recognising that it not only rendered me a very imperfect being, but that the problem could be addressed.

    You can’t rely on an ongoing campaign to point out hypocrisy to others – FFS, they either get it or they don’t.

    We need to bring the leftists back to reality.

  67. Rabz

    Well, as many as possible …

  68. Token

    …the only way I was able to renounce leftism myself, was to sit down one day and denounce my utter hypocrisy and dishonesty, recognising that it not only rendered me a very imperfect being, but that the problem could be addressed.

    Did you always have the ability to honestly self reflect, or did something bring it on?

  69. MT Isa Miner

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    #1416878, posted on August 14, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Yep, Burn1 it is true that I am a very good sort.
    I am offended that you have been sexist enough to recognise this truth.
    Think I’ll 18c you. That should kill off this silly law completely.

    you got the daily double,Lizzie.
    I reckon you are a good sort too, I’m hoping you will get offended and 18c me as well.
    but
    Frederic

    #1416910, posted on August 14, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Why ISN”T my gravatar a swastika? How do I change it?

  70. Bern1

    Lizzie. That isn’t sexism. It’s appreciation.

  71. gabrianga

    Bolt one up on numbers with his “arrested development”

    Numbers has shown no signs of any development not even a simpleton’s understanding of what is going on around him.

  72. Rabz

    Tokes, let’s just say that a certain “occurrence” triggered my parting of the ways with the left – and a recognition of the fact that hypocrisy and dishonesty are two sides of the same coin.

  73. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    back from the boonies. Listening to ‘ROland teh Headless Thompson Gunner, sipping rum…

    and what do I see?

    Not the Sydney Morning Hamas?

    AAnnnnnd Stackja wins the internet for 2014.

    That is simply brilliant: beyond compare brilliant.

  74. Anne

    Carlton, by all accounts is an uncouth and odious man but to be frank, I don’t think the article is all that bad. I see worse directed at individuals and groups on this site daily.

    Nor do I have a problem with the cartoon.

    In fact I’d like to see cartoons depicting Muhammad in a way that ridicules Islam.

    Ridicule is the antidote to political correctness.

    …and political correctness is antagonistic to freedom of speech!

  75. Marion of the Glades

    Sinc, I think you need to think carefully about where you are headed.
    Jewish people have a really good understanding of how vilification works and what it does to you. They have become quite cohesive because of that experience. Unlike, say, Buddhists. And you could say that Buddhists are awful if you were to judge them on the behaviour of some in Burma, for example.
    Can we please discourage the use of universal terms that imply that religion or race or ethnicity etc are in any way homogenous.?
    I, for one, do not wish to be associated with all Geelong supporters.

  76. Anne

    Fredric, go to gravatar.com, tap on ‘create your own gravatar’, type in your email address, handle, password then follow the prompts to import a picture from your hard drive.

    Roger has one too…

  77. Anne

    Oh, I meant to add…

    Don’t waste energy wagging a finger at this sort of nonsense.

    Wait till the glass starts breaking then throw the full force of the law and public opinion at them.

  78. incoherent rambler

    Anne, What did the QC say?

  79. Anne

    Barrister, not a QC.

    He didn’t make it to lunch with us but I’ve just rattled off an email to ask what he thinks about it.

  80. Alfonso

    “Stackja describes perfectly the paper that published Mike Carlton’s anti-Israel rant and a cartoon of a hook-nosed Jew with his Star of David blowing up a city:’….. Bolt

    Bolta must come here to view a blog uncensored by News Ltd apparatchiks with bigger “commercial consideration.”

    Read and weep Bolta.

  81. Infidel Tiger

    Sinc, I think you need to think carefully about where you are headed.
    Jewish people have a really good understanding of how vilification works and what it does to you.

    No, the Jewish community have to stop being the dumbest smart guys in the room.

    It is tiresome sticking up for people who offer you no support in kind. We’ve got their back. About time they had ours too.

  82. C.L.

    CL, is it too late to tell you once more that I love you?

    Mmmph. You’ll need to do something nice for me after flirting with Rabz.

  83. candy

    The cartoon seeks to demonise Jews, there’s no two ways of looking at it.
    Perhaps there should be legislation for religious vilification too? I don’t think you can trust in people to be respectful and tolerant nowadays, judging by the Guardian and Fairfax. A little legislation is a good thing.

  84. Andrew

    You totally miss the point EB.
    When everyone is getting fried by it, everyone will want it gone.

    The point is the lulz I will get while the leftoid filth (everyone from the Semite Mocking Herald down to the Green on the street) and the Muslim extremists they have pandered to for 20 years are the ones frying.

    If good law emerges from this lulzathon, even better.

  85. Bern1

    No, the Jewish community have to stop being the dumbest smart guys in the room.

    It is tiresome sticking up for people who offer you no support in kind. We’ve got their back. About time they had ours too.”"
    And that is the truth,Brother

  86. Boambee John

    “Why is my gravatar a swastika? How do I change it?”

    On that subject, why does numbers use the Eureka flag as his gravatar?

    The Eureka rebels were small businessmen complaining about what they saw as excessive regulation and taxation by the state. They mined gold (dug holes in mother gaia, cut down trees for pit props, and used pristine creeks to wash the gold from the mullock.

    These are all things that numbers seems to oppose, yet he uses their flag. Why?

    Back on topic, I agree that 18C should go, but the left has defended it vigorously. However, once a few of their own have been burned by 18C (Carlton is a good start, but we need a few more), they will suddenly discover how unreasonable it has been all along, and demand its repeal, without the faintest hint of a blush.

  87. The chance of winning is small: Carlton criticised Israel as a nation, and criticised their government political policy.

    If that’s all he’d done he’d still have a job.

  88. Boambee John

    “Ridicule is the antidote to political correctness.”

    Much of political correctness is actually political cowardice.

  89. But Carlton himself referred only to Israel, Israeli’s etc (correct me if that’s wrong).

    That’s wrong.
    The real furore started after the article went to print, in email and twitter exchanges with readers.

  90. John

    Jews have every right to request such laws. Free speech has hardly worked out well for them in the past.

    Well, the funny thing is that Germany had laws similar to 18c in the beginning of the 20th century. There even were around 200 people persecuted for anti-Semitism. That’s what Hitler used against them. “See? – they shut everyone else’s mouths. What do they have to hide? Why do they control everything.”
    I’m simplifying his argument, but the idea is the same.

  91. Grant B

    Yes I agree 18C should be removed. And commenters here get seriously agitated about it. But go down to the local and mention 18C and they’d reckon it’s a European bra size.

    The average punter couldn’t give a toss. And they are the ones that will make or break the government come the next election.

  92. JC

    That’s wrong.
    The real furore started after the article went to print, in email and twitter exchanges with readers.

    And the cartoon, especially the cartoon.

  93. Yohan

    I can understand Bolt’s glee, wanting to see the left subjected to the same legal circus as he was under the 18c laws. But there is as much chance of this happening as the ABC following their legislative charter.

    I don’t think it should be done at all, this is just stooping to their level (the use of the coercive apparatus of the state to enforce speech control).

  94. I can understand Bolt’s glee, wanting to see the left subjected to the same legal circus as he was under the 18c laws.

    He’s hardly gleeful, I would have said more vengeful.
    Bolt- and the rest of us – would at least like to see evidence that this law is applied to all, and in defence of all racial groups. If that were the case then repeal would be more likely. But the urban left are comfortable with the law precisely because their collective prejudices are immune from it.

  95. The rise of ISIS is an important and alarming development. This is something that must be discussed, but the extent to which its origins in religion can be discussed in Australia is unclear.

  96. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Whoo hoo – Burn1 and Mt. Isa Miner – if I 18c you both my good sortness will go down in legal history. There would be much debate about the finer points of it, the nature of the various curvatures, and interesting assessments of my degree of offense. The case would dismally fail on the offense criteria, as I could not lie under oath. Sadly, as you’ve both correctly guessed, I am not into rejecting compliments from gentlemen. So no 18C for either of you from me.

    If you really want to collect an 18c for Outrageously Outrageous Offense, try wolf-whistling a Frightbat. Makes them fall of their perch with a horrified screech.

  97. JohnA

    Yohan #1417449, posted on August 14, 2014 at 11:13 pm

    I can understand Bolt’s glee, wanting to see the left subjected to the same legal circus as he was under the 18c laws. But there is as much chance of this happening as the ABC following their legislative charter.

    I don’t think it should be done at all, this is just stooping to their level (the use of the coercive apparatus of the state to enforce speech control).

    Yohan, there are two ways to deal with a bad law (either statute or common law).

    1. ignore completely all breaches thereof, and subject it to the ridicule it deserves; something that master comedians like Gilbert and Sullivan were able to do most incisively (along with bursting the pompous bubble of the British upper crust), until it is completely expired and eventually quietly repealed
    2. enforce it thoroughly and rigorously, so that everyone can see the consequences, and it is publicly shamed so that the politicians are driven to amending it

  98. JohnA

    Grant B #1417385, posted on August 14, 2014 at 10:03 pm

    Yes I agree 18C should be removed. And commenters here get seriously agitated about it. But go down to the local and mention 18C and they’d reckon it’s a European bra size.

    Grant, that is not a bad assessment: something that looks attractive but does nothing to support the wearer!

    :-)

  99. David

    It is tiresome sticking up for people who offer you no support in kind

    B1 what makes you think that the Jewish part of Australia is one homogenous group thinking block? It has as many different opinions on what is correct or incorrect, what is good or bad legislation, what is reasonable or unreasonable behaviour as any other segment of Australian society.

    Australian Jews have been covering the backs of non Jewish Australians since the inception of this country [think Sir John Monash] and, of course, vice versa and it has had as many dickheads as any other section of the community.

  100. MT Isa Miner

    David

    #1417872, posted on August 15, 2014 at 10:54 am

    It is tiresome sticking up for people who offer you no support in kind. Too Right.

    B1 what makes you think that the Jewish Anglo part of Australia is one homogenous group thinking block? It has as many different opinions on what is correct or incorrect, what is good or bad legislation, what is reasonable or unreasonable behaviour as any other segment of Australian society.Australians Jews have been covering the backs of Jewish and non Jewish Australians since the inception of this country [think Sir John Monash one, very distinguished, among many] and, of course, vice versa and it has had as many dickheads as any other section of the community.

    Seems to me that some dickheads have had more media pull in s18c than the garden variety dickhead, but. The muslim community alone can’t wear the shit for s18c.

    No-one bloke has to wear the shit for a whole community unless they chose to stand with them in the fight. I’m making it real clear that this isn’t calling you out personally. But then after the fight a bloke has to turn to their mates and tell them to pull their heads in or next time they fight on their own.

    So why isn’t the Jewish leadership and rallies supporting the rights of free speech for ALL of us? Free speech so we can all fight back against those that attack Jews AND those that attack Bolt? Why aren’t the many Jewish organisations putting their clout behind the issue?

    Give us some ammo. Tell me why. Because I’m fucked if I can come up with reasons. And I don’t mean WW2 crap. Try telling an apprentice with an iphone 5S that he can’t say something because he might turn into a Nazi and see how far you get.

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