A paragraph everyone should read

So this is more than a story of opportunistic men taking advantage of vulnerable girls from a poor, postindustrial town. It speaks to the elevation of offense-avoidance above everything else, even the basic civilized requirement to protect the vulnerable. This is why the Rotherham story has rattled so many. They feel that the abuse is partly a consequence of the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos more concerned with appearing right-on than doing what is right.

That’s Brendan O’Neill in the Wall Street Journal.

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210 Responses to A paragraph everyone should read

  1. That story’s goin nowhere. No Catholics or Tall Poppies involved you see?

  2. Roger

    They feel that the abuse is partly a consequence of the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos more concerned with appearing right-on than doing what is right.

    You don’t say? Who’d have thought?

  3. That story’s goin nowhere.

    That story’s going everywhere. 1/2 a city idle while its youth is systematically raped. It’s enough to shake the cowardly british who have been routinely bending over for a good rogering without so much as a request. Maybe we won’t even need to invade.

  4. Taxpayer

    It is a small hope but none the less it is a hope that this story will penetrate the bullshit that is called political correctness. PC has caused so much misery over the last 4+ decades for so little value. It has caused people to not openly address issues that desperately need to be addressed in order not to be ostracised by the mindless minions of the left. It is finally time to speak up and denounce those who seek to repress through PC, time to tell the lefties to shove it in order to let your voice be heard. Time to tell those that seek to repress you in the Senate to piss off and let an adult sit in their place.

  5. Gab

    It all boiled-down to one thing: people scared of being called “racist” . You can thank your politically correct nazis for that, but it’s more. Those parents who actually tried to get their daughters away from the Pakistani filth – for Pakistanis they were – tried to get their daughters out of the houses where the girls were being abused, these parents were arrested by the police. When the law ignores decency and safety of children in deference so as to not “upset” a race of citizens, then the country is well and truly lost. Pandering to minorities who break the law is western civilization’s death knell.

    It’s all very nice to say the law has a duty; to say the bench and parliament and the police have a duty to uphold, create and enforce the laws that progress our morality and not retard it. Laws that allow us to diminish the humanity of anybody are not laws, cf. anti-discrimination laws. They are frameworks for crime. A land whose laws sanction – not control – the barbarous among its citizens, that is a country whose hope is lost. And that is precisely what is happening and what happened in Rotherham, all due to pressure from the politically correct, gender-neutral, antiheteronormative left.

    Rivers of Blood indeed.

  6. Leigh Lowe

    The word “shocking” is over-used.
    But I find it incomprehensibly shocking the people, most of whom would be close to vulnerable children in their own lives, could smother accusations of child abuse to protect some multi-culti ethos.
    And it wasn’t just one isolated incident .. it was scores, then hundreds.
    What were they thinking?
    That timid 13 year old girls had somehow formed a complex conspiracy to stitch up innocent Pakis?

  7. JohnA

    Once again, Christians sadly can only say: we warned you! as we pick up the pieces…

    And don’t anybody dare start preaching at me “Where was your God in all this?” I have had it up to here with that kind of clap-trap. There was no God in all this because self-satisfied, all-knowing anti-Christians threw Him and His people out of the way, so that they could play PC multi-culturalism.

  8. Rabz

    the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos

    Incorrect – these scum are enabled by a wider network of seemingly expedient supplicants.

    “politicos” are an easy, slow moving target, Their enablers are far more slippery.

  9. Wozzup

    The following demonstrates how this type of situation becomes normal under a politically correct culture dominated by authoritarian and in fact, dictatorial leftists. In particular the following quote by the brilliant and funny Mark Steyn how it can be dangerous to sip;y speak out, in the instance he cites, by crossing the PC police and their minions, the real police.

    [i]“It was Valentine’s Day 1989, you’ll recall, when the Ayatollah Khomeini issued his extraterritorial summary judgment on a British subject, and shortly thereafter large numbers of British Muslims were marching through English cities openly calling for Rushdie to be killed.

    A reader in Bradford recalled asking a West Yorkshire officer on the street that day why the various “Muslim community leaders” weren’t being arrested for incitement to murder. The officer said they’d been told to “play it cool”. The calls for blood got more raucous. My correspondent asked his question again. The policeman told him to “F— off, or I’ll arrest you.”[/i]

    This type of response be it from police, or other authorities, and the threat to career and all it entails to family and life plans is why most people simply put their heads down and pretend nothing is happening. The fault lies not with them but with the PC bullies who demand that they “play the game” according to their rules.

    When, as citizens of a supposedly democratic country, we are unable to speak out to denounce a patent wrong, we are no longer free. We are slaves.

  10. Joe

    It appears that the Americans were right all along.
    The 2nd Amendment – the right to bear arms, is THE most important right.
    Without it all the rest is mere blathering.

  11. Badjack

    Sound like the Rotherham Police chief at the time was related to a former police chief in Victoria

  12. Blogstrop

    It could happen here, and the ABC would soft-pedal it. We are going down the same path until we ditch PC and multi-culty claptrap and reassert our own nationality and sense of decency. Might need the odd bit of mongrel in the mix too, of course.

  13. John Comnenus

    Theodore Dalrymple pointed out that the purpose of propaganda is to get people to knowingly lie in public. This lying made people lose part of their dignity and made people easier to control. The propaganda is that Islam isn’t a threat because it is a religion of peace. Everyone agrees to the lie and then takes the next step which is refuse to act.

    We are doing the same thing here. The head of ASIO thinks the solution to Islamic terrorism is more Muslims. Abbott thinks that fighting Islamic terrorism doesn’t involve targeting some Muslims. When you can’t publicly admit the truth you end up with collateral damage. The Rotherham girls are the collateral damage of PC.

  14. A Lurker

    Two observations – the Leftists of my acquaintance seem to be suffering cognitive dissonance over this. I’ve been putting links and comments about Rotherham up on my FB page and there just doesn’t seem to be any sort of reaction from friends who I know to be Labor/Greens voters. It’s almost as if they refuse to accept that it’s happening. One chap I know on FB was going on and on about the Roman Catholic Church and how evil it was, so I asked, what about Rotherham, and he just ignored me and kept on about the Catholics. They just don’t want to know. I hope a little of what has been going on is seeping in – God knows I’m trying to wake them up, get them to see reality, see reason, but I feel as if I’m bashing my head against a brick wall.

    The other observation is that with 18C remaining unchanged, increases the potential for Rotherham to happen here in Australia – not so much the abuse, because we know already that it is happening, especially in remote Indigenous communities, but 18C means that people who might have felt empowered to speak out about atrocities and to name names, remain constrained for fear of litigation. 18C means that the paedophiles, rapists and other monsters present in Indigenous communities and Muslim ethnic enclaves in our outer suburbs have been effectively given the green light to continue their activities, secure in the knowledge that fear of being called racist will hold the tongue of most who want to speak out and decry what is going on.

  15. Bribiejohn

    Blogstrap,

    The thin edge of the wedge has already ensconced itself in our land, and those we elect look the other way. After all, their career is more important than the ones they are supposed to represent.

  16. A Lurker

    (Repost without the offending ‘P’ word that has put my original post into moderation. Mods – feel free to dump the original post so there isn’t a duplicate.)

    Two observations – the Leftists of my acquaintance seem to be suffering cognitive dissonance over this. I’ve been putting links and comments about Rotherham up on my FB page and there just doesn’t seem to be any sort of reaction from friends who I know to be Labor/Greens voters. It’s almost as if they refuse to accept that it’s happening. One chap I know on FB was going on and on about the Roman Catholic Church and how evil it was, so I asked, what about Rotherham, and he just ignored me and kept on about the Catholics. They just don’t want to know. I hope a little of what has been going on is seeping in – God knows I’m trying to wake them up, get them to see reality, see reason, but I feel as if I’m bashing my head against a brick wall.

    The other observation is that with 18C remaining unchanged, increases the potential for Rotherham to happen here in Australia – not so much the abuse, because we know already that it is happening, especially in remote Indigenous communities, but 18C means that people who might have felt empowered to speak out about atrocities and to name names, remain constrained for fear of lawfare. 18C means that the monsters present in many Indigenous communities and muslim/ethnic enclaves in our outer suburbs have been effectively given the green light to continue their activities, secure in the knowledge that fear of being called racist will hold the tongue of most who want to speak out and decry what is going on.

  17. Notafan

    Twatter and fakebook went viral over the misogyny speech oh nose the nasty man looking at his watch
    PC lefties turning a blind eye to muslim rape of thousands of little girls?
    Crickets.

  18. Walter Plinge

    WSJ tip: Highlight the first sentence or two then do a Google search on it. The search result gives you the full article most of the time. Did for me in this case.

    If News had a reasonable subscription that covered The Times, WSJ and The Australian I’d be in it.

  19. Notafan

    See linked article where it appears the UK muslim community expects people to be prosecuted for ‘islamophobic’ comments on social media
    At the same time muslim men raping girls is okay and no-one in the muslim community said a word
    Three years for rape of a minor against one year for putting bacon in a mosque.

    Not a new article but

  20. The Hunted Mind

    Latest Guardian headline:

    Blaming the Rotherham abuse on a fear of being branded a racist is ludicrous.

  21. outsider

    Bolta yesterday had an article reporting that 16% of a small sample are favourably disposed towards ISIS. All this is moving fast now, the western Europeans have ceded their futures to Islam. We are one step behind. And it is never their fault, and all of them are as outraged as we. OK.

  22. outsider

    The 16% figure was for France, with its five million Muslims.

  23. Paul

    “They feel that the abuse is partly a consequence of the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos more concerned with appearing right-on than doing what is right.”

    That’s called a “Limited hangout” where you put forward an excuse that is actually less offensive than the real truths, which are to be kept hidden. Then you’re talking actual complicity of others outside of the immediate ring. Too conspiratorial? Tell it to Jimmy Saville’s victims, and consider how his actions have radiated outwards to catch others in the same or similar circles.

  24. crazydude

    Hmmmm. I notice the likes of numbers and yobbo haven’t yet commented on this story. Maybe they’re too afraid of being labeled ‘luvvie moron’ or something alike, because political correctness is wonderful to them. Then again, it is only morning still.

  25. Notafan

    Sonia Sharp focused on her mickey mouse school bullying program while head of Rotherham’s child protection team and let the child rapists do whatever they wanted before landing a cushy job here doing more anti bullying crap.
    The same crap the human rights commission has as a priority that paying Tim Wilson was going to hurt boo hoo
    Not fgm or forced marriage or muslim grooming nah just the really important stuff.

  26. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I read about Rotherham and the pimping of young girls there a few years ago when I was in the UK; so it’s been known for a long time, and no-one really cares. People were unable to speak out then and they still are; the ‘racism’ word immediately sends people to ground. This latest report may crystallise the issue somewhat in the UK, but it will disappear soon enough, as has already happened with the rape of young aboriginal children by men of their own community here in Australia. Politically, no-one in Europe, the UK or Australia is prepared to let us speak out freely with names and details – witness Abbott’s refusal to repeal 18c. I would prefer to see the Muslim ant-nest here in Australia stirred now and take the results of that now rather than wait for it to be made yet more apparent that ‘we have a problem’. Muslim people who live by Jihad as self-development have nothing at all to fear from this. Those supporting in any way the promotion of Islam and Sharia by the sword need to be called out strongly, now.

  27. P Warnock

    I agree with Taxpayer and Gab – evident in this country already. PC should be outlawed.

  28. If there are 1400 British girls who were raped by a gang of Pakistani men, enabled by the state, is this not grounds for petitioning the Queen for a Royal Commission into the affair? It could be followed by civil cases against individual Social Workers, Nurses, Doctors and Police – the list is not exhaustive – then putting the guilty into prisonl. It may just put some spine into the swine. Especially when they will be helpless against the majority Islamic population in those prison.
    The major problem will be, who will represent themagainst the State and their enablers, Gab? I’ve a sneaking suspicion the the Judiciary will be over represented in HM Prisons, and they know it.

  29. Eddystone

    Gab
    #1433542, posted on August 29, 2014 at 11:02 pm
    Those parents who actually tried to get their daughters away from the Pakistani filth – for Pakistanis they were – tried to get their daughters out of the houses where the girls were being abused, these parents were arrested by the police.

    I didn’t know this. It wont end well if police are perceived as the enemy by ordinary citizens.

    This whole “hate crime” nonsense seems to have robbed people of their faculties, to the point they can’t see a real crime under their noses for fear of being accused of a “hate crime” such as racism.

  30. Dr. Sir Fred Lenin

    A Travelling Guillotine called Enoch Powell Memorial Politically Incorrecter.it could travel around the UK ,administering Justice muslim style, they are so used to beheading it qont matter.
    Soneone prominent should break 18 c on the Rotherham Issue ,and see the PC muslim crawlers take it to court, they wont ,it would really hit the fan and they wouldbe covered in it . Fight leftist Bull confront the weak dogs ,face them down ,and MOCK them. There is nothing they hate more than being laughed at !

  31. Notafan

    Sorry l misspoke, I meant muslim reaver child rapists aided and abetted by terrorist act apologists and enablers like professional muslim victims Uthman Badar and Jamal Rifi.

  32. Gab

    Eddystone, you can read about it at Dover’s link here. And the report itself details that parents were arrested.

  33. Wot’s a Reaver?
    Enquiring mind would etc…

  34. rickw

    the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos

    It is something more than cowardice.

  35. John Comnenus

    In a different time theses people would be called Collaborators. That is what they are. Collaborators in the destruction of our culture, our laws and our communities.

  36. YT

    Winston,

    Reaver refers to a group of mindless raping cannibals from the Firefly universe. Never a truer comparison can be drawn.

  37. YT

    And Gab beats me to the draw. Remind me to never engage you in a linky gunfight Gab.

  38. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Hey, unfair to real Reavers. This is the name traditionally given to the peoples living on the disputed borderlands between England and Scotland. They were independent, semi-pagan in that they maintained many of the old pre-Christian customs and traditions, especially ballads, and still used the ancient Brythonic language in sheep counting. They lived in named clans that intermarried and also inter-fought (similar to many tribal societies). They also were known for rustling cattle and sheep from the good lands, as opposed to their badlands. My maternal grandfather was a borders man from the Dixon clan.

  39. Gab

    Or even a real gunfight, YT :D

  40. YT

    Gab,

    If I ever face you, you’ll be awake, you’ll be facing me and you will be armed.

  41. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Here’s Wiki on the real Reivers.

  42. Gab

    Just joking wif you, YT. I’d rather go for a coffee and a chat.

  43. YT

    Coffee at 10 paces!
    That’s the sort of grass before breakfast I could face.

  44. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Tony Abbott, repeal 18c. Your Prime Ministership will, and should, fall on this failure.
    Recall your glory days of the carbon tax and how you came to power.
    You may live to regret how you lost it via a similar grass-roots revolt over 18c.

  45. Notafan

    Sorry Lizzie I’m going to continue calling the reavers, reavers
    Land pirates whatever
    Semi pagan intertribal raiders also seems fitting….
    18c me, at will. :)

  46. rickw

    The other burning question is how does a society which is subject to this industrial scale level of abuse not self organize and actually do something about the issue? Yes, I am talking about taking the law into their own hands, which as demonstrated is the only option, even with full disclosure The State remains inert beyond giving platitudes.

    Multiculturalism is two pronged, the elevation of the status defective cultures to that which is untouchable, and the depreciation of the native culture to a point where even those who are a part of it consider it to be worthless. That would appear to be what has also happened in Rotherham. Not a single father or brother (1400+!) appears have gone British Bulldog and sought rough justice for this horrific crime? Incredible and maybe equally as horrific.

    As an elderly left wing friend of mine said when the “Indian Beatings” were going on in Melbourne (subsequently found to be largely internal or fabricated). “These beatings are a very good thing, the behavior of Indians on public transport has improved dramatically, I can now get a seat.”

    The point is that if you are dealing with defective cultures, there is only one thing that they really respect.

  47. incoherent rambler

    And there is only one fate for a reaver.

  48. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Here’s Wiki on the real Reivers.

    George MacDonald Fraser is required reading on the subject.

  49. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    And there is only one fate for a reaver.

    Yes. Move beyond the clan and tribe, settle down under a national law and stop raiding. This happened to the Borderers in what used to be known as ‘The Debatable Lands’. Some elements of the old culture, the old independence, lived on in my grandfather though. He still had a love of horses, and horse trading language, even though he became a coal miner, marrying my maternal grandmother in South Wales. Dixon was his maternal lineage name; his paternal lineage name indicated Viking origins.

    I would not 18c you, Nilk, for ‘Reivers’. Semi-pagan clans wherever found need to be called out and brought to heel. ;) Also, no-one can stop moviemakers from dredging history for their nomenclatures and creating soulless monsters (as well as unsullied heroes) under those names.

    ISIS scum are from the badlands of the human heart, that is for sure. I watched (on ABC, imagine!) that ISIS video of young men in their modern underpants being marched to their massacre, and I thought my own heart would break for the pity of it.

    Evil is not a word I apply often, but I apply it here, to ISIS. Sheer evil, released from any constraints.

  50. incoherent rambler

    ISIS. Sheer evil, released from any constraints.

    And they would not exist without funding.

    1. A war of IS obliteration is required.
    2. Find their funding source and obliterate them.

  51. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    George MacDonald Fraser – I haven’t read his works, but apparently he was a proud Borders man. Also found this about him on Wiki:

    A traditionalist, he was an Honorary Member of the British Weights and Measures Association, which opposes compulsory conversion to the metric system.[

    Not just a member, but an Honorary Member. A true libertarian. My granddad always called himself a ‘free thinker’. It’s in the Border’s Blood.

    Anyway, the TV Borders name snatch is not all bad. It strikes me that the makers of a very amusing TV program must have hung around the Borders a bit for inspiration. There is a now-defunct Borders” clan called Blackadder, and MacDonald apparently created a swashbuckling hero called Flashman (to deliberately contrast to and revile the beta-male villain Flashman in Tom Brown’s Schooldays). It is not to0 much of a stretch to conjure up a Lord Flash-Heart from MacDonald’s character and have Gloriana enthuse directly to camera ‘Oh gosh! He is wonderful, isn’t he?’

    I expect he is.

  52. Notafan

    Self funded now, alas, imposing punitive taxes on local farmers and businesses, looting banks and private homes for booty, selling oil to the unscrupulous.
    The parasites will destroy the local economy and look to new pastures. Some will take what they amassed personally and move to Qatar or Yemen where they might find themselves facing a different band of reavers.
    That has always been the way of muslim economies since the days of mohammed.

    Though there’s always halal certification and Centrelink.

  53. Roger

    Find their funding source and obliterate them.

    That may be difficult, ir, as their largest funders are reportedly Saudis, Qataris, Kuwaitis and Turks. All U.S. allies.

  54. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    1. A war of IS obliteration is required.
    2. Find their funding source and obliterate them.

    Don’t hold your breath, but it may be that the House of Saud is onto that. Self-preservation mode.

  55. Notafan

    Lizzie read his biography ‘quartered safe out here ‘ as a young soldier in the Burma campaign in WWII, get the later edition with the postscript; he really was a libertarian.
    It was recommended on the cat and am so pleased I read it I now recommend to everyone!

  56. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    George MacDonald Fraser – I haven’t read his works, but apparently he was a proud Borders man.

    He was, indeed. It was an eyeopener to go to that part of the world, and find out that people do, indeed ,speak like the examples given in Fraser’s books.

  57. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Some will take what they amassed personally and move to ….

    … a big house in London with their four wives and fifteen children and welfare benefits.

  58. Max

    The other burning question is how does a society which is subject to this industrial scale level of abuse not self organize and actually do something about the issue? Yes, I am talking about taking the law into their own hands, which as demonstrated is the only option,

    Because its illegal to speak about it. So you can’t organise against it. Same here in Australia with 18c.

  59. nilk

    I would not 18c you, Nilk, for ‘Reivers’. Semi-pagan clans wherever found need to be called out and brought to heel. ;) Also, no-one can stop moviemakers from dredging history for their nomenclatures and creating soulless monsters (as well as unsullied heroes) under those names.

    Thanks, Lizzie, but that’s not my comment. I’ve never called anyone a reaver or a reiver. I have other names for them, not so polite and only mentioned in the dark.

  60. Aaron M

    ……yeah but they care so hard!

  61. rickw

    Because its illegal to speak about it. So you can’t organise against it. Same here in Australia with 18c.

    Rubbish, 18c doesn’t stop word of mouth, and neither does any law in the UK. The simple truth is that not a single person had enough conviction to take any action. You can’t have 1400 victims and entire town be oblivious to it. It would seem that they didn’t think they have anything worth fighting for, which has even far greater ramifications than the horrific 1400 cases of rape and sexual abuse.

  62. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The simple truth is that not a single person had enough conviction to take any action.

    English newspapers are reporting that any police who asked any questions were threatened with a complaint of racial harassment.

  63. Ellen of Tasmania

    The other burning question is how does a society which is subject to this industrial scale level of abuse not self organize and actually do something about the issue?

    Rickw, the men in my life have been asking the same question. What do you do if the police force are not protecting your women and children? And suppose some men had taken the law into their own hands. How do you think it would have been reported to the rest of us? And how would we ever know the truth?

    Many people seem to decide on the level of outrage they should feel based on the amount of MSM coverage an incident gets, or how many facebook ‘likes’.

    We’ve become so accustomed to the media leading our responses that it seems hard to imagine people evaluating things for themselves. Even when we try to it’s so difficult to know which sources to trust, who is telling the truth and how we can possibly go about finding such things out. I wonder how many of those girls’ families tried to fight the ‘system’, tried to get their story told, tried to get justice, tried to raise a groundswell of support but were unable to.

    I think the fact that, even now, after all the lives that have been ruined so little is being done by the authorities, and so few people are being held accountable, means that the temptation for people to take the law into their own hands to demand justice is done will only grow. Foolish, foolish behaviour by authorities who have lost the moral mandate to govern.

  64. Roger

    The other burning question is how does a society which is subject to this industrial scale level of abuse not self organize and actually do something about the issue?

    It’s been on all our minds. I think it was twostix, whose wife is from near Rotherham, who posted on this yesterday in the Wednesday forum. I recommend looking for it; but, to sum up, it seem sthge men of the town are so demoralised by by what has happened to them and their town over the past 40 years (largely courtesy the Labour Party) that they have been reduced to a state of bovine passivity.

  65. Roger

    The simple truth is that not a single person had enough conviction to take any action.

    And, from what I have read, a number of key people from the police and social services are refusing to resign over their moral failures, while others have been shifted sideways, at least one to a cushy job in Victoria.

  66. A Lurker

    Foolish, foolish behaviour by authorities who have lost the moral mandate to govern.

    I suspect that a vast and wide chasm exists between our version of morality, and those peoples’ version of morality.

  67. Notafan

    Isn’t the EDL partially a response to the grooming trade, no-one believes it is limited to a few northern towns do they?
    I really hope the bovine masses see a glimmer of hope in UKIP and toss the reaver pimps out.
    15 Rotherham victims are sueing, hopefully more sue the council, collectively and individually as well as the perps and send all of them broke.
    Sharp was on a salary of £140,000, not bad for watching the children of Rotherham get raped, especially when the average income was a trifle over £18,000 pa

  68. Mr Rusty

    A Lurker
    #1433707, posted on August 30, 2014 at 6:57 am
    Two observations – the Leftists of my acquaintance seem to be suffering cognitive dissonance over this. I’ve been putting links and comments about Rotherham up on my FB page and there just doesn’t seem to be any sort of reaction from friends who I know to be Labor/Greens voters.

    It’s not cog diss Lurker. It is suppression of that nagging realisation sitting very deep in their psyche that much of the blame for this lies at their doorstep, that PC and multi-culti have been a Pandora’s Box and that they, as enablers, have the blood of many an underaged raped virgin on their hands. Like all lefties they cannot admit they were wrong or that they share the blame and guilt and thus double down on the stupid or look for other immoral equivalences (Catholic priests) to smother that nagging voice in their head that is whispering “This is the result of the loathing of your culture and love of yourself, the consequence of wanting to seem good and noble, of your desire to label the other as nasty and wicked for trying to warn you of the stupidity of your…” NO! SHUT UP! CATHOLIC PRIESTS, ABBOTT MISOGYNIST, MORRISON EVIL, HATES POOR REFUGEES, LIGHT A CANDLE FOR VIOLENT THUG RAPIST LOVELY NICE REZA BERATI, TRALALALA!!! MUSLIMS ARE POOR AND OPPRESSED JUST LIKE GAYS, BUDGET IS CRUEL AND HEARTLESS, UNICORNS AND RAINBOWS, KUMBAYA, TRALALALA! IT’S ALL MURDOCH EVIL CONSPIRACY…

    If I had my way I would take the female lefties and wives and daughters of male lefties, the Sonia Sharp’s and Mrs. Blair’s and Mrs. Brown’s and throw them in a dark room with these animals (and then anything that happens to them is ignored because it might insult the Muslim prisoners) because as it stands absolutely nothing will happen to the enablers, nothing at all. They will continue to live in luxury on the taxpayers dime whilst diverting other people’s money into breeding the kind of dysfunctional, feckless families that were preyed on by the monsters in Rotherham whilst preening about their compassion for the poor and downtrodden.

    Rub it in their faces, ask them how does it feel to know that their wonderful multi-culti, PC world of tolerance and diversity has led to this – the question is not whether it will happen here, it already is, the question is will it get to the same scale as in Rotherham / Derby / Bradford / Oxford. Next time they accuse you of racism recommend that they donate their wives and daughters for gang rape in the name of tolerance and diversity because you would prefer not to. The left MUST be forced to face up to the consequences of their evil, just as the German’s were dragged out and paraded around the death camps so must it be for the Progressive pigs that are complicit in this evil via their ignorance, stupidity, narcissism and intolerance of their own culture and society.

  69. Roger

    I suspect that a vast and wide chasm exists between our version of morality, and those peoples’ version of morality.

    James Delingpole put his finger on it, A.L.:
    “The local authorities, in other words, knew exactly what was going on. Yet still they did nothing. Why? …It’s because the kind of politically correct, left-leaning and basically rather thick people that local authorities like Rotherham Council tend to have working for them are so paralysed by modish concerns about cultural sensitivity that they have made an obscene judgement call: better to allow at least 1400 kids to be hideously abused than to be thought guilty of the far greater crimes of being thought a bit racist or accidentally offending someone.”

    In other words, an inversion of values brought about by the gods of multiculturalism. Read it all here.

  70. Roger

    Isn’t the EDL partially a response to the grooming trade

    The EDL is what you get when the authorities fail to do their job. They don’t help, but their advent shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

    no-one believes it is limited to a few northern towns do they?

    Delingpole mentions a similar pattern of crimes in Oxford…Oxford!

  71. Zippy The Younger

    pakistani men who just happen to be muslims. Muslims rape gangs are just a cultural thing we should show more sensitivity to, perhaps turn over another daughter… er …cheek?

    whats the jihadist percentage in Australia up to now? did bilal skafe count as a rape gang? lets not mention they were muslim that would be islamaphobia & racist…

  72. boy on a bike

    As late as December 2010, the feminist author Julie Bindel was a
    lone voice stressing that there was an urgent need to acknowledge
    these Muslim grooming gangs exist, and that white liberals were
    still in denial.
    These gangs will be allowed to operate with impunity if
    we deny their existence in some sort of twisted attempt to
    be anti-racist and culturally sensitive. Some people,
    including many white liberals, are loath to admit what it
    is going on.2
    In 2007 Bindel was writing for The Times about the grooming gangs,
    but by 2010 writing about this phenomenon was so taboo that
    Bindel’s piece appeared not in The Times, nor The Guardian, nor The
    Independent, but in a very minor publication called Standpoint (a
    conservative magazine, prioritising freedom of speech). It is a credit
    to a radical feminist like Bindel that she stood by the story rather than
    worried about what was good for her career. That she should be
    writing this in such a minor publication at the end of 2010 shows the
    determination to ignore it by the politically-correct elite in the media.
    Andrew Norfolk’s pivotal article appeared in January 2011, and marks
    the point at which the establishment started to talk about the
    phenomenon in a more open manner.”

  73. nilk

    Isn’t the EDL partially a response to the grooming trade, no-one believes it is limited to a few northern towns do they?

    Notafan, back in 2009, British soldiers were bused by muslims. A group of local patriots got together and started pushing back.

    That was the nucleus of the group that developed into the EDL. They have consistently been the only group to speak out against the grooming and raping gangs over the years, and have been under constant media attack. If you google “english defence league beginnings” the top links are all hard left sites.

    I know people here that support the EDL, as they fled England to escape from the encroaching MC/PC crap (only to find it here too).

    To speak out is to risk livelihood and potentially life over there, and so many are disenfranchised and demoralised.

  74. nilk

    Bugger. Bused = abused.

    Apologies for not proofreeding.

  75. rickw

    Hi Ellen,

    We’ve become so accustomed to the media leading our responses that it seems hard to imagine people evaluating things for themselves.

    Not just responses, but the whole agenda. All anyone at work wants to talk about today is the kid with the 9mm uzi shooting the instructor in the head (gene pool cleansing).

    Everyone seems happy to tutt tutt and point and laugh at the “stupid Americans” over pretty much the least serious thing that happened in the world this week.

    MSM not only covers up or under reports serious issues with their left wing agenda, but they also provide a feast of distraction over contentious but largely irrelevant issues.

  76. incoherent rambler

    Find their funding source and obliterate them.

    That may be difficult, ir, as their largest funders are reportedly Saudis, Qataris, Kuwaitis and Turks. All U.S. allies.

    Not to mention their Australian donors.

  77. A C

    Why would anyone fight to save a system like this?
    This is the glorious future of western democracy

    You’re welcome to it.

  78. Notafan

    That’ll be you and me then, IR
    Taxes and halal certification thankyou very much

  79. incoherent rambler

    notafan, that’s why I said not to mention …

  80. rickw

    On a practical note, from Mark Steyn:

    Sonia Sharp, who was head of child services in Rotherham, is now in an equivalent position Down Under for the entire state of Victoria.

    Based on 5 minutes of googling, this appears to be true and in fact the Victorian Education Department seems to be actively defending her.

    I would suggest that this individual is demonstrably NOT fit for her present role based on past performance and that this should be made very clear to Dennis Napthine.

    Maybe there can be just a little bit of justice.

  81. Notafan

    I read it and I don’t agree, so what if we have a bogan class if the Uk built a welfare state and paid for that is their right.
    There are lots of other ethnic communities who might despise the welfare class but do they systemically prey on their little girls?
    Are we talking Vietnamese , Sihk or Polish grooming gangs operating across the UK ?
    No we are not.
    Nor is this problem unique to the UK we have/ had rape gangs in France, Scandinavia and in Sydney (that I am aware of) and what do they all have in common?

  82. Notafan

    Rickw, Martin Dixon I believe is Victoria’s education minister I sent him an email yesterday I’m sure he’d like to hear from others

  83. Aristogeiton

    Notafan
    #1433976, posted on August 30, 2014 at 1:30 pm
    I read it and I don’t agree, so what if we have a bogan class if the Uk built a welfare state and paid for that is their right.
    There are lots of other ethnic communities who might despise the welfare class but do they systemically prey on their little girls?

    Are we talking Vietnamese , Sihk or Polish grooming gangs operating across the UK ?
    No we are not.

    I don’t think you read it at all:

    [T]here is a tendency among Muslims to look upon such women as inferior, even as ‘sluts’. More pointedly, in this era of institutionalised multiculturalism, ethnic minorities are implicitly encouraged to distance themselves from their ‘host community’

  84. stackja

    They feel that the abuse is partly a consequence of the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos more concerned with appearing right-on than doing what is right.

    MSM have created the moral cowardice of modern-day politicos.
    ALP is the recipient of much MSM positive reporting while the non-ALP faces much negativity.

  85. Notafan

    So what then is it about muslims that makes them take that step to start grooming little girls for sexual purposes that doesn’t happen in Buddhist or Hindu or sihk Asian communities?
    What is it about muslim theology and culture that makes it okay to sexually abuse little non muslim girls?
    Why were imans condoning the behaviour?
    Why is British law and western morality completely ignored?

  86. Vicki

    The “feel-good” lefties will suffer very little moral disturbance at all. As with the public revelation a few years ago of endemic child abuse in remote Aboriginal communities, it will just be absorbed as “one” of the many social ills suffered by disadvantaged communities.

    It will not be properly analysed, and it will not be put on their political agenda. It will hardly cause a ripple in the social conscience they are so obsessed with.

  87. stackja

    Notafan
    #1434012, posted on August 30, 2014 at 2:06 pm
    So what then is it about muslims that makes them take that step to start grooming little girls for sexual purposes that doesn’t happen in Buddhist or Hindu or sihk Asian communities?

    Muhammad?

  88. stackja

    Vicki
    #1434016, posted on August 30, 2014 at 2:14 pm
    lefties

    And lefties keeping voting for lefties.

  89. Zippy The Younger

    So what then is it about muslims that makes them take that step to start grooming little girls for sexual purposes that doesn’t happen in Buddhist or Hindu or sihk Asian communities?
    What is it about muslim theology and culture that makes it okay to sexually abuse little non muslim girls?
    Why were imans condoning the behaviour?
    Why is British law and western morality completely ignorder

    Could it because the Prophet is the perfect example for all muslim men to follow, and that his example includes 9 yo brides, looting, pillaging, battles, assassinations, sex and ordinary slavery?

    Try the Abridged Koran covers the prophets deeds and actions in plain english. Every action of muslims makes perfect sense when placed in this historical 7thC context, pity about the 21stC weaponry.

  90. Vicki

    Evil is not a word I apply often, but I apply it here, to ISIS. Sheer evil, released from any constraints.

    Lizzie, I believe that the secular West, saturated as it is with moral relativism, needs to dust off the concept of “evil”, and reexamine it. And while we are about it, we should reexamine just what our lives mean to us, and why we value the freedoms we enjoy.

    I think it is a long time that many in the West have done that – if ever.

  91. DrBeauGan

    To be fair to the quiescent men of Rotherham, it is difficult to organize with high levels of media disinformation. Suppose that we in Australia found that our schools and universities had been corrupted to indoctrinate a destructive alien ideology? How might we take action? Suppose we complained bitterly through the standard channels and found that they too had been compromised? Suppose we were driven to take action and found it had been declared illegal? Suppose we discovered that our traditional freedoms were being taken from us? What might we do?

    Have a good whinge on the cat.

  92. Viva

    Here’s Wiki on the real Reivers.

    William Faulkner wrote a novel entitled The Reivers – the story of three unlikely thieves.

  93. stackja

    DrBeauGan
    #1434039, posted on August 30, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    ALP started this process in the 1950s.

  94. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    The events in the UK are the direct path to communal violence on the Balkans model. Eventually, people will take individual action (if they are smart – as one can keep a secret) and Plod is not hard to outwit if you never appear on his radar. trip to Poland or Russia, buy a firearm, bring it back in pieces. Develop the tech skills to make an IED. Make a few, then dispose of all evidence you have done so. Map the surveillance systems so they can be avoided. Attack, say, Shia muslims and leave evidence it was Sunnis. Start them killing each other locally.

    Track local Muslim males. Kill one in surprise attack.

    The IRA tied up 35,000 UK/NA security personnel for decades, and they never had mroe than 180 active shooters/bomb makers.

    This is the sort of future the left has purchased for the UK.

    I can see no way to stop it now. The rot has gone too far.

  95. Viva

    Great article in the Inquirer section of today’s Oz on how the world’s press completely misunderstands the significance (or lack of) of Israel in the middle east today and is totally uninterested in reporting on Palestinian society regarding them only as passive cyphers. A must read.

  96. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    I found this on the Breibart site, in the comments on Delingpole’s article re Rotherham. Now, from my perspective, some of those comments were a bit off – not liking ‘inter-racial marriage and children’ etc; something about American commenters, perhaps. I don’t much like that sort of talk. What I object to are ideologies that are anti-human – and genuine racism, based on skin colour alone is that to me. BUT – To me, Islam presents an anti-human ideology – unless it changes, and soon. Being opposed to Islamic ideology, especially in its many ugly manifestations, is not racist.

    The ‘I’m just not taking it any more’ piece in the link above was made in 2012; things have got worse since then. I’ve put it up because I like free speech and I don’t think that for much longer we will hear free speakers like this man. We should though.

  97. Rokdoktor

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”- Voltaire

  98. Zippy The Younger

    I can see no way to stop it now. The rot has gone too far.

    But look at all the nice cars they bring for summer

    the overlords have arrived

  99. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Dr. BeauGan, from many a whispered whinge a mighty movement may grow.

    Or at least a more political awareness and reaction. Which is why we must fight 18c.
    And teach our children well (oh those old hippie songs! right idea, wrong content).

  100. stackja

    Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC
    #1434046, posted on August 30, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Reminds me of The Day of the Jackal.

  101. DrBeauGan

    Stackja: Don’t I know it. I think Mk50 is right, but the rebels will find it hard to organize.

  102. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”- Voltaire

    Lucky that Doomlord, who is very handsome and clever, allows us to rib even him from time to time.

  103. stackja

    Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.
    #1434060, posted on August 30, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    Dr. BeauGan, from many a whispered whinge a mighty movement may grow.
    Or at least a more political awareness and reaction. Which is why we must fight 18c.
    And teach our children well (oh those old hippie songs! right idea, wrong content).

    To fight 18c means overthrowing MSM.

  104. Tel

    Suppose we discovered that our traditional freedoms were being taken from us? What might we do?

    Have a good whinge on the cat.

    Make sure all the major parties come last on your voting ballot… that would be a good start.

    Also, get the word out each and every time to as many people as possible whenever one of these events happens. Don’t let anyone live down the failure of Global Warming for example. Don’t let them live down the failure of the NBN. Don’t believe every bit of bullshit you get fed about the Middle East or what some bad nation over there is up to.

    Make sure ordinary people understand why government money printing and government debt are bad for them, and good for the people who feed that money to themselves.

  105. Ivan Denisovich

    To me, Islam presents an anti-human ideology – unless it changes, and soon.

    Islam is changing us, not the other way round, argues Steyn:

    So now, in the new multiculti Britain, the child sex trade is back, as part of the rich, vibrant tapestry of diversity – along with Jew-hate, and honor killings, and decapitation porn. The solutions to the internal contradictions of multiculturalism are (a) David Cameron’s expanded security state; (b) Afsun Qureshi’s universal prostration before Islam; or (c) an end to mass Muslim immigration. The last is too obvious for any viable western politician ever to propose it.

    That leaves Wilberforce’s “reformation of manners” – on a scale he never contemplated, and with a self-segregating community extremely resistant to outside influence. Meanwhile, leaders such as David Cameron keep hoping that somehow all these excitable young men with their surplus energies will embrace “British values”, without ever being able to say what these “British values” are, other than the stuff Yorkshire schools teach as the source of all the evils in the world – imperialism, racism, colonialism, etc. And even as we dither, in Rotherham and elsewhere, Islam is already reforming our manners. As I wrote the other day, slowly, remorselessly, we are becoming them.

    http://www.steynonline.com/6543/the-reformation-of-manners

  106. Fisky

    Those parents who actually tried to get their daughters away from the Pakistani filth – for Pakistanis they were – tried to get their daughters out of the houses where the girls were being abused, these parents were arrested by the police.

    You’re fucking kidding.

    There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that all expressions of Leftism must be criminalised and punished severely. It should be illegal to express any Left-wing ideas in any public or private context, and those who do so should have their passports, their property and their right to practice their profession confiscated.

  107. Gab

    Islam is changing us, not the other way round, argues Steyn:

    And Steyn would be correct. It’s all very well to say this and that about Islam but it’s the pc-fied lefty morons on the bench, in parliament, in law enforcement, in academia, in schools – they are the ones that are pandering to muslims to the point where sharia law will be codified in Australia. Recognise Aboriginals in the Constitution? Pfft. The Muslims will get there first thanks to their useful idiots on the Left.
    Give it five years. If you disagree with me, you are a bigot and a racist.

  108. incoherent rambler

    I can see no way to stop it now. The rot has gone too far.

    Yugoslavia (as it was) has less strife under the iron fist of Tito.
    The UK’s fate?

  109. Viva

    Timely quote from a review of Lee Harris’ “The Suicide of Reason”:

    The West has variously tried to convert, to assimilate and to seduce Muslims into modernity, but, Harris says, none of these approaches have succeeded. Meanwhile, our worship of reason is making us easy prey for a ruthless, unscrupulous and extremely aggressive predator and may be contributing to a slow cultural “suicide.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/books/review/Ali-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

  110. Makka

    “Islam is changing us, not the other way round, argues Steyn”

    Leftism has enabled the rise of Islam in the West. Had the West resisted this traitorous cult we wouldn’t have been such easy prey to this latest filth , Islam. If you are looking for what has weakened and in fact betrayed the West, discover what Leftism has done to us.

  111. Zippy The Younger

    To me, Islam presents an anti-human ideology – unless it changes, and soon.

    Islam can’t change. Its self preservation is encoded in its DNA. Any deviation from the word or example of the prophet is apostasy and subject to the death penalty. Offshots are regarded as cancers that must be vigorously exterminated.

    Islamic State is the true face of islam. There is no such thing as extremism in Islam. Its DNA is total subjugation of anything in its path. The example of the prophet is pure evil, and truly can be called the anti-christ. (Beheading several 100 jews for instance)

    Islamic State is not “extreme” it is just highly motivated to follow the lead of the prophet and his rapid military growth and conquests that overran arabia.

  112. Vicki

    Islam is changing us, not the other way round, argues Steyn:

    If you want a good illustration of this – read the article spruiking “sharia compliant” investment products in The Australian today (Wealth, page 33).

    The writer actually downplays “a small few..making a lot of noise about the isolation of Islam”, and concludes that the benefits of sharia-compliant finance “should be warmly welcomed by all”!

  113. stackja

    Notafan
    #1434122, posted on August 30, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    Is this the sort of thing getting the Australian government’s meta knickers in a meta knot?

    I see another story: ISIS Threat Against Pope ‘Nothing Serious’, Says Vatican
    Killing a Pope is not easy as JPII showed.

  114. Notafan

    I hope so, it was a muslim that tried to kill St John Paul too.

  115. stackja

    Notafan
    #1434135, posted on August 30, 2014 at 5:06 pm
    I hope so, it was a muslim that tried to kill St John Paul too.

    KGB uses many to do its work.

  116. cohenite

    Islamic State is the true face of islam.

    Exactly and a hearty fuck you to the apologists, sophists, smartarses and general bastards who seek to preen their egos by arguing that islam itself is not the problem. They are betraying the West: for instance Scott Birchill, Sue Lines and Nicholas Reece.

    These people are making the running in the media, shaping and distorting public perception. I urge everyone who has a genuine concern about islam to ring talkback and counter the appeasement and lies of these people.

  117. rickw


    I can see no way to stop it now. The rot has gone too far.

    But look at all the nice cars they bring for summer

    the overlords have arrived

    Not a problem but an opportunity, a bit of reverse Islamic Car-BQ?

  118. Roger

    I found this on the Breibart site, in the comments on Delingpole’s article re Rotherham. Now, from my perspective, some of those comments were a bit off – not liking ‘inter-racial marriage and children’ etc; something about American commenters, perhaps. I don’t much like that sort of talk.

    Racism is detestable and ignorant – bona fide anti-Islamic activists should disassociate themselves from it in no uncertain terms.

  119. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    What we are seeing today in the UK is the simultaneous collapse of civilis (in all meanings of the Latin) and of societal trust. I know of no civilisation which survived this. Rome did not survive this.

    For argument’s sake, let us take this Dad: Those parents who actually tried to get their daughters away from the Pakistani filth – for Pakistanis they were – tried to get their daughters out of the houses where the girls were being abused, these parents were arrested by the police.

    let us assume that he does (later) rescue his daughter, that she did not enjoy being pack-raped by animals, and that she does not want that to happen again.

    What options are open to this Dad?

    Appeals to authority – are you kidding me? They ORGANISED this!
    He can have no trust in them whatsoever – they are a powerful and dangerous enemy who side with the rapists.

    Appeals to the law – are you kidding me, they ENABLED this and protected the rapists. There is no law, they are a powerful (very powerful) enemy who protect all the guilty and punich all teh victims and innocent savagely.
    If there is no law, then there can be no justice.
    So everyone is now his enemy, and the threat is existential.
    Justice is the philosophy by which the state takes vengeance for wrongs out of private hands.

    So that deal is now null and void. There is only such justice as the Dad can organise for himself in the face of many powerful enemies: an existential threat environment.

    The societal trust on which his civilis depends is now dead, buried, cremated, mulched, laid down in a peat bog, burid by 500m of sedimentary rock and converted to coal. And it cannot be revived.

    Therefore, if he is smart, he will organise his own tribe and organise his own defended zone. Might start with all the other Dads whose daughters are being pack raped, maybe.

    Once the social contract, societal trust, law and justice are all gone, what’s left, but that?

    let’s face it, our Dad’s best possible option is to organise a warlord gang, with a base area and popular, if perhaps covert, support.

    What has he got to lose? Nothing much.

    What does he have to gain? A hell of a lot. Respect, the ability to protect what he must protect, and the ability to obtain justice. Rough justice, but justice. With the protection os such a warlord-gang he can also start to kill those who have wronged him. He has no other method left of possibly obtaining vengeance.

    Now ask yourself who runs many of the shanty-settlements in Brazil, provides water, electricity and law (defined as peace on the streets) there? Local warlord-gangs.

    Can anyone else see an alternative in the face of something like Rotherham?

    Then ask yourself what your response would be in the same cirumstances.

  120. Elizabeth (Lizzie) B.

    Yes. One has to be careful of bedfellows. Also, that link I created to the “I’m mad as hell” guy was imo very good on not respecting Islam and in claiming back civilized values in the UK. However, I’ve looked at a couple of other of his similar talks, and I can’t agree with his Richard Dawkins approach to religion in general. I do have respect for a number of other religions and the way in which they direct their followers to good values. Although by no means a believer, I do have respect for the historical role that Christianity has played in the development of much that is good in Western civilization (while not denying the bad things that have happened). However, as I said, speech should be free. He is free to have views that I agree with and views that I don’t.

  121. nilk

    Lizzie, I’ve been watching Pat Condell for years, and he’s mellowed a lot on his anti-christianity. As the saying goes, “there are no atheists in the foxhole.:

    In this instance, we’re all kuffar together.

  122. Notafan

    I like Pat Condell, his Israel talks are blunt and correct, didn’t know about the other. May he continue to mellow.

  123. Max

    Racism is detestable and ignorant

    over 1000′s of years our Ancestors migrated to frozen islands in the middle of the north sea, and high up in the nordic mountains……..why??………Racism??……… or self preservation??

  124. ar

    #1433542

    It all boiled-down to one thing: people scared of being called “racist” .

    They’re more scared the “racists” have been right all along. Leftists can never admit any of their lies or their entire belief system will crumble…

  125. Tintarella di Luna

    It is just amazing to see the usual suspects down-playing the racial profile of the perpetrators of whole scale child rape – the Guardian with monotonous reliability The Guardian is blaming racists and the BBC that bastion of child protection downplays the perpetrators origins and blames the racists

  126. jupes

    Suppose we were driven to take action and found it had been declared illegal? Suppose we discovered that our traditional freedoms were being taken from us? What might we do?

    Have a good whinge on the cat.

    I’m pretty sure that if the daughters of those who post here were being pack raped by Muslim gangs and the authorities protected the rapists, then a bit of vigilanty justice would be in order.

    Whinging just wouldn’t cut it.

  127. C.L.

    I’m reminded of the story I posted here about a year ago about a Texas father who literally walked in on a man molesting his little daughter. The father killed him with his bare hands. The police in the small town filed no charges.

  128. Tintarella di Luna

    In our line of work we see many clients from the Ethiopia, Somalia, and the Sudan (no we’re not immigration agents nor refugee advocates). Some years ago an African client accused me of being a racist because I told her she could not do a certain thing because it was against the law and she would be arrested and might go to gaol.

    I’d helped this client in relation to a number of issues including domestic violence, housing and way beyond any fee-paying. I was most upset and let her know that I was trying to keep her out of trouble. She then apologised saying she’d been told by some community urger that if anyone ever said no to something then she’d get what she wanted by calling that person a racist. What’s not to like about that? it’d worked for her a treat, I set her straight, she’s still a client and so are her children.

  129. jupes

    Mark Styen:

    The solutions to the internal contradictions of multiculturalism are (a) David Cameron’s expanded security state; (b) Afsun Qureshi’s universal prostration before Islam; or (c) an end to mass Muslim immigration. The last is too obvious for any viable western politician ever to propose it.

    Or Fisky.

  130. Roger

    over 1000′s of years our Ancestors migrated to frozen islands in the middle of the north sea, and high up in the nordic mountains……..why??………Racism??……… or self preservation??

    What an idiotic comment, Max.
    Everyone knows there are no frozen islands in the middle of the North Sea and no peoples ever regularly inhabited the Scandes mountains except mythical trolls. I have Norwegian Viking blood via my Scottish Highland ancestors and I know whereof I speak.
    Please go away and spare us your detestable ignorance.

  131. Roger

    I set her straight, she’s still a client and so are her children.

    Good on you, Tinta.
    You’ve educated her in right ways; no doubt she will pass this on to her children.

  132. Tintarella di Luna

    You’ve educated her in right ways; no doubt she will pass this on to her children.

    Looks like — they’ve become fine citizens and her kids kids are all doing well too. One by one, but I don’t think I’ll out run ISIS. We had a client return from Jordan, Jordanian who said everyone is terrified that ISIS will come head-chopping there, he’d already lost family in Syria – the murdering of one western journalist sets the media a flame when there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims being murdered by these fevered barbarians high on blood-lust claiming to be doing Ulluh’s bidding.

  133. Notafan

    Notice how long the processing time was and how quickly there was access to centrelink payments?
    If Australia banned first cousin marriage….

    In 2011 someone was complaining bitterly how hard getting these visas was now Morrison has closed the door

  134. Roger

    Looks like — they’ve become fine citizens and her kids kids are all doing well too.

    Very encouraging. Sterling work! Bless you.

  135. Fisky

    Actually, I have proposed means that would reduce the number of Muslim migrants considerably. Jupes hasn’t. He’s still at the Kevin Rudd stage (free laptops for everyone!) of half-baked ideas without a clue as to how it would work.

  136. Tintarella di Luna

    If Australia banned first cousin marriage….

    That used to be the case wasn’t it? When was that law quietly dropped?

  137. gary

    The answer is not in the Koran, it is in understanding the life of Mohammed that we can begin to see what is occurring is all part of Jihad.
    Seriously every single person concerned about this global issue should investigate the life of Mohammed, his actions and strategies and then the pattern will become clear.
    Tony Abbott has already lost, we need something else that can stand up and represent people that want our values to survive because Australia will follow Eurarabia, the way it’s heading and we will all be on our knees to the religion of peace!

  138. jupes

    Actually, I have proposed means that would reduce the number of Muslim migrants considerably. Jupes hasn’t. He’s still at the Kevin Rudd stage (free laptops for everyone!) of half-baked ideas without a clue as to how it would work.

    LOL.

    My proposal is simple. It is to put the national interest first and ban Muslim immigration.

    You on the other hand are so wedded to the status quo that you put the feelings of Indonesia before the national interest.

    One minute you rage against lefties, the next you sound like one.

  139. Notafan

    I don’t know that it was tinta as it was legal in the UK, while first cousin marriage only has a slightly increased likelihood of genetic illnesses where both parents carry a recessive gene, where there is a family history of cousin marriage as might be found in ME countries the husband and wife can actually be more closely related than first cousin
    Imagine if you have four or five generations of first cousin marriage how close they would be genetically.

  140. Fisky

    My proposal is simple. It is to put the national interest first and ban Muslim immigration.

    It’s so simple that you are unable to actually describe how it would work.

  141. Gab

    It’s so simple that you are unable to actually describe how it would work.

    gillard had no problems banning immigration from two countries during her reign.

  142. jupes

    It’s so simple that you are unable to actually describe how it would work.

    Well I can and have done but you think my solution will upset the Indonesians so you pay it off.

    The thing is Fisky, banning Muslims is the best policy for Australia but you won’t have a bar of it apparently because I – an anonymous blogger – can’t describe policy detail to your satisfaction. Who cares?

    If you don’t like my methods, I’m sure there are big enough brains in Sir Scott’s employ who could work it out. And even if they had the policical will to do it, you Fisky would be still be setting your hair on fire because you don’t want to upset the Indons.

    So under your preferred policy we would still be inviting Muslims to this country even though they are a clear and growing threat – because you don’t want to upset Muslims. Wow.

  143. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Imagine if you have four or five generations of first cousin marriage how close they would be genetically.

    Ummmm – any sheep farmer can tell you the consequences of inbreeding….

  144. Notafan

    I think Morrison removing those visa categories has been in part to lessen the flow from you know where
    They have a lot more control over the humanitarian category now and despite allegations to contrary if they take 4000 displaced Iraqi Christians father someone and sister someone from the parish will be able to vouch for their bona fides
    As for skilled well they have to be skilled
    The system in the UK where gradually entire villages in Pakistan get relocated should be avoidable.

  145. Notafan

    I wonder how many genetic problems crop up
    The man who allegedly murdered James Foley is supposed to be the son of first cousins for at least two generations on both sides

  146. Fisky

    gillard had no problems banning immigration from two countries during her reign.

    Fine, we can do that, but what you are describing isn’t actually Jupes’ policy. His policy is to get immigration officers to ask visa applicants the question “Are you a Muslim?” in a standard interview.

    That’s it! We’re supposed to take that “proposal” seriously.

    The thing is Fisky, banning Muslims is the best policy for Australia but you won’t have a bar of it apparently because I – an anonymous blogger – can’t describe policy detail to your satisfaction. Who cares?

    For the nth time, you don’t have a policy. “Banning Muslims” is not a policy. Changing immigration criteria in detail, and explaining precisely how you would enforce it, is a policy. You cannot argue against existing policy or even a hypothetical policy, if you haven’t considered how your alternative will actually work.

    If you don’t like my methods

    You have methods??? News to me.

    I’m sure there are big enough brains in Sir Scott’s employ who could work it out. And even if they had the policical will to do it, you Fisky would be still be setting your hair on fire because you don’t want to upset the Indons.

    I don’t know why you are citing Scott Morrison. If you ever cornered him at a public function and told him your ideas, he’d either laugh at you or tell you to get lost.

  147. Fisky

    I think Morrison removing those visa categories has been in part to lessen the flow from you know where

    Yep.

  148. Crossie

    That story’s goin nowhere.

    That’s right because there is no Cameron Diaz, Brangelina or Katy Perry doing the rounds of talk shows trumpeting it about.

  149. A Lurker

    That’s right because there is no Cameron Diaz, Brangelina or Katy Perry doing the rounds of talk shows trumpeting it about.

    Or no Michelle Obama doing selfies with signs reading ‘Save our girls’.

    The silence from the Left on this is absolutely breathtaking – the only conclusion one can take from their silence is that they must condone what happened and what is still happening. I wonder too if in some dark corner of their minds they believe that those girls deserved what they got.

  150. Notafan

    I think Mr Morrison can do subtle

  151. Zippy The Younger

    The solutions to the internal contradictions of multiculturalism are (a) David Cameron’s expanded security state; (b) Afsun Qureshi’s universal prostration before Islam; or (c) an end to mass Muslim immigration. The last is too obvious for any viable western politician ever to propose it.

    The solution is actually obvious, but our spineless pollies would never have the balls to get on with it.

    Islam is a totally fake religion. Simply slowing muslims immigration will simply delay the inevitable. Mulsims will breed themselves to a majority within very small number of generations.

    Islam has no place in the modern world.

    Ban it, Nuke it.

  152. cohenite

    It’s so simple that you are unable to actually describe how it would work.

    Its very simple; but it takes focus and guts, both absent in every political class in the West.

    Islam is the problem: full stop.

    Deregister islam as a religion internally and then you are not banning a religious immigrant. I mean how many smaller forms and variants of islam are already prescribed for fucks sake. Here is a starter list of prescribed terrorist organisations in Australia; every fucking one of them is muslim yet when any mention is made that islam itself should be subject to sanction the chicken littles come out and start clucking.

  153. DaveA

    Aussie education chief linked to Asian sex gang schoolgirl scandal: Politicians call for official who worked in Rotherham to resign

    The Victorian Government is facing scrutiny for appointing a senior state education official who has been linked to a shocking child abuse scandal in northern England for a 16-year period.

    Now, questions are being raised as to why the Victorian Government would recruit the former director of children’s services in Rotherham between 2005 and 2006, Dr Sonia Sharp, as their deputy secretary of Victoria’s Education Department.
    ‘I think it absolutely raises questions about the recruitment policies, it raises questions about ongoing arrangements at the highest levels in the education department under the Liberal Government,’ said Opposition Leader Daniel Andrews.
    ‘This is not some junior bureaucrat, this is a senior, perhaps almost the most senior person… that is charged with the welfare and protection, the nourishment, the advancement, the education of our kids, there’s answers that need to be provided to this and the Premier and the Minister are the ones to provide them.’

  154. cohenite

    Steyn’s piece on Rotherdam is excellent; and again spells out lucidly and ineluctably that there is no such thing as a fucking moderate muslim.

  155. cohenite

    Australia at war with islam: Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia hold a conference at Lidcombe.

    Another minority group within islam who do not represent the majority of fucking moderate muslims.

  156. Sgt. Ian McKay V.C. (Falklands). Rotherham is his hometown.

  157. Fisky

    The silence from the Left on this is absolutely breathtaking – the only conclusion one can take from their silence is that they must condone what happened and what is still happening. I wonder too if in some dark corner of their minds they believe that those girls deserved what they got

    I have no doubt at all they fully support child rape. The Left believe that white Britons have no rights that a Musselman is bound to respect, and feel particular glee when they are raped in the name of social equality.

  158. jupes

    His policy is to get immigration officers to ask visa applicants the question “Are you a Muslim?” in a standard interview.

    I’m pretty sure that Nazi immigration was banned after WW2. Seems that the immigration department could work out how to do it back in the day. Now that Fisky’s on the case it’s all too hard for them apparently.

    “Banning Muslims” is not a policy. Changing immigration criteria in detail, and explaining precisely how you would enforce it, is a policy. You cannot argue against existing policy or even a hypothetical policy, if you haven’t considered how your alternative will actually work.

    Stopping Islamic immigration is a potential policy. It just needs people willing to implement it. Israel seems to be able to implement a no Muslim policy. Saudi Arabia, Jordan seem to be able to implement a no Jew policy. European nations post WW2 implemented a no Germans policy.

    I don’t know why you are citing Scott Morrison. If you ever cornered him at a public function and told him your ideas, he’d either laugh at you or tell you to get lost.

    No doubt. As good as he is at his job, he’s still a member of the Liberal Party. As Steyn says “(Banning mass Muslim immigration) is too obvious for any viable western politician ever to propose it.

    Or Fisky so it seems. We don’t want to upset Muslims do we?

  159. Fisky

    I’m pretty sure that Nazi immigration was banned after WW2.

    You’re “pretty sure” are you? Here’s an idea, why don’t you actually research the issue, and find out what their procedures were?

    Israel seems to be able to implement a no Muslim policy

    No it doesn’t have a “no Muslim” policy as a matter of fact. It simply has a very heavy preference for Jews over other migrants.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-to-grant-citizenship-to-hundreds-of-darfur-refugees-1.228881

    Saudi Arabia, Jordan seem to be able to implement a no Jew policy.

    Again with the “seeming”. Why don’t you actually bother to find out what their policies are. Banning “Israelis” is not procedurally the same thing as banning Jews.

    European nations post WW2 implemented a no Germans policy.

    Yes, as I have repeated to exhaustion, banning a nationality is very easy. You just don’t issue visas to someone with that passport. But that’s not what you are actually proposing, for the millionth time.

    As Steyn says “(Banning mass Muslim immigration) is too obvious for any viable western politician ever to propose it.

    Banning “mass” Muslim immigration is not hard at all. We are already doing it.

    What you have advocated is to put the onus on Australian officials to prove that visa applicants are not Muslim (how the fuck are you going to do that???), to send spies to local mosques in order to check whether the worshippers there are legally allowed to attend depending on their arrival date, along with other lunatic ideas that would turn Australia into a laughing stock.

  160. notafan

    What you have advocated is to put the onus on Australian officials to prove that visa applicants are not Muslim (how the fuck are you going to do that???),

    I dunno, if they come from certain regions they are almost certain to be muslims, if they claim to be Yazidi or Christian or Druze then members of those communities such as priests can vouch their bona fides
    normally someone would say I lived on this street in this village and people around there would know them.
    Even the most war torn regions have records and information about docs people used to get passports etc
    It really isn’t that difficult
    When people were trying to claim last remaining relative visas to Australia DIM were pretty good at finding out if that was true and giving people three year exclusions if they lied.

  161. notafan

    I have a Lebanese Christian friend who only has to look at the name to know whether a Leb is Christian or Muslim….

  162. Fisky

    I have a Lebanese Christian friend who only has to look at the name to know whether a Leb is Christian or Muslim….

    You mean by ancestry. That doesn’t mean they are believing Muslims. They could be atheists or secret converts to another faith. Unfortunately, not many Muslim countries allow Muslims to change their official religious affiliation.

    Q: If someone claims to be an apostate who was born into the faith but then left, how do you know they are telling the truth?

    Q: Should we get around this problem by just banning anyone with a Muslim-sounding name (e.g. “Salman Rushdie”, “Ayaan Hirsi Ali”)?

  163. notafan

    That doesn’t mean they are believing Muslims.

    If they have converted someone will know if they are merely apostates well
    The discussion was about excluding muslims for the protection of nation security, if that means some secular athiest apostate muslims miss out on emigrating here so be it
    A secret apostate doesn’t face the same risks as a minority member of the Yazidi, Christian Druze or other communities.

  164. Fisky

    The discussion was about excluding muslims for the protection of nation security, if that means some secular athiest apostate muslims miss out on emigrating here so be it

    Or we could close our consulates in countries across the third world that we don’t want migrants from, and/or slash the visa categories that give them a foot in, and save ourselves the time of giving visa officers a list of “banned Muslimy-sounding names” that they need to scan for every applicant, along with the horse laughs that will follow us around the world.

  165. .

    C.L.
    #1434310, posted on August 30, 2014 at 8:26 pm
    I’m reminded of the story I posted here about a year ago about a Texas father who literally walked in on a man molesting his little daughter. The father killed him with his bare hands. The police in the small town filed no charges.

    He had a common law prerogative to kill the offender – as we all have a right to use reasonable, and at times lethal force to protect life, liberty and property.

  166. .

    Fisk

    Today your truth bombs are laser guided 4000 lb monsters. They are hitting dead centre as well.

  167. notafan

    “banned Muslimy-sounding names”

    Who said that?
    You said

    What you have advocated is to put the onus on Australian officials to prove that visa applicants are not Muslim (how the fuck are you going to do that???), to send spies to local mosques in order to check whether the worshippers there are legally allowed to attend depending on their arrival date, along with other lunatic ideas that would turn Australia into a laughing stock.

    I said that in fact that from most countries and regions within those countries that information regarding muslim heritage would be readily discernable and if people claimed to be other ethnic minorities that would be verifiable. It then became what about exmuslims and I am saying without independant verification that would be bad luck.
    To reduce that to ‘muslimy sounding names ‘ well I don’t agree that would happen that would be a very silly process. People come from somewhere; they have a home somewhere, a town a village a farm; they have histories, quite often they have records either with them or in their place of origin, a lot of them have mobile phones and laptops.
    I am not actually advocating the banning of muslims btw I am just saying it is doable just like confirming whether someone is the last surviving relative is possible,

  168. notafan

    By the way what do you think happens now with Iranians and Pakistanis posing as Afghans and Lebanese posing as Syrians when they are processed by immigration?
    Sure some slip through but there is a process to test bona fides

  169. Fisky

    Who said that?

    You did, when you said that your Lebanese friends only needed to know someone’s name in order to know their faith.

    I am not actually advocating the banning of muslims btw I am just saying it is doable just like confirming whether someone is the last surviving relative is possible,

    Proving that someone holds or doesn’t hold a particular set of beliefs is probably the most difficult standardised test you could ever try to design. Once people know what to say or not to say in an interview (just like the illegals had rehearsed their lines to perfection before setting out on a boat journey), the procedure would be exposed as a paper tiger. There would be little to no reliability across thousands of officials in over 100 countries, and the cost to our reputation as a serious country would be considerable.

    What’s easier is just to stop processing people who come from particular avenues, and you don’t need any test for that.

  170. Fisky

    Sure some slip through but there is a process to test bona fides

    You might make a judgment based on someone’s recollection of events in their country, their accent, and so on. But trying to determine what ideas someone holds in their head is another thing entirely.

  171. notafan

    But trying to determine what ideas someone holds in their head is another thing entirely.

    And we wouldn’t do that
    We would simply say unless there is independant verification that you have renounced islam eg membership of another faith verified by a representative of that faith, then bad luck
    Otherwise you would not bother with trying to exclude muslims at all, would you if all you had to do was claim you had apostized?
    It is not as if we are under any obligation to take anyone, we can pick and chose who we want to come here based on Australia’s best interests. There are millions of refugees, hundreds and thousands of Christians and minorities fleeing Syria and Iraq for starters.
    And yes it really isn’t very hard for Lebanese to know who is who, they had a bitter civil war of Sunni versus Shia versus Christian for over fifteen years with Beirut divided street by street, Christian villages, Shia villages and Sunni villages with war crimes for everyone. Not to mention on going bombings and fighting to this day.

  172. jupes

    You’re “pretty sure” are you?

    Yep. Sure are. You think we allowed Nazis to immigrate post WW2 do you?

    No it doesn’t have a “no Muslim” policy as a matter of fact. It simply has a very heavy preference for Jews over other migrants.

    LOL. Only allowing Jews and some other categories (non of which are Muslim), is a ban on Muslims.

    Again with the “seeming”. Why don’t you actually bother to find out what their policies are. Banning “Israelis” is not procedurally the same thing as banning Jews.

    Right back at ya Fisk. Saudi Arabia has totally banned Jews from its territory while Jordan has only banned Jews from living there. Nothing to do with Israelis. Both countries’ policies refer to Jews.

    Yes, as I have repeated to exhaustion, banning a nationality is very easy.

    Except that they didn’t ban a nationality. They banned ethnic Germans. Millions of them. This was because ethnic Germans had been a fifth column in their countries prior to Nazi invasion Who’d have thunk that inviting millions of people who oppose your way of life would end badly? But let’s not learn from history, let’s just keep on letting Muslims in because we don’t want to upset foriegn Muslims right Fisk?

    Banning “mass” Muslim immigration is not hard at all. We are already doing it.

    Well Sir Scott appears to have put a brake on it but they are still allowed to immigrate here.

    What you have advocated is to put the onus on Australian officials to prove that visa applicants are not Muslim (how the fuck are you going to do that???), to send spies to local mosques in order to check whether the worshippers there are legally allowed to attend depending on their arrival date, along with other lunatic ideas that would turn Australia into a laughing stock.

    No. That is just you spinning what I actually said. However as I’ve demonstrated above, it is not really that hard to stop Islamic immigration. It’s just a matter of will. Unfortunately bed wetters like you are running the show at the minute so we’ll just keep on letting them in. Too bad for Australia.

  173. jupes

    Today your truth bombs are laser guided 4000 lb monsters. They are hitting dead centre as well.

    More like cement filled practice rounds being dropped willy nilly.

    BTW those 200 terrorists are doing OK at the minute in North Iraq hey Dot?

  174. Demosthenes

    Right back at ya Fisk. Saudi Arabia has totally banned Jews from its territory while Jordan has only banned Jews from living there. Nothing to do with Israelis. Both countries’ policies refer to Jews.

    Jupes’s problem: Muslims changing Australian culture. Jupes’s solution: become like Saudi Arabia.

  175. jupes

    Jupes’s solution: become like Saudi Arabia.

    Yeah that’s exactly what I’m saying Demo.

    Your comprehension abilities are second to none.

  176. Fisky

    Saudi Arabia has totally banned Jews from its territory

    Do you actually know what the procedure is in Saudi? It’s a question on an application form. Jews can and do live in Saudi, as registered Christians. Actually they have even allowed people in as registered Jews on an ad hoc basis. So yeah, not exactly a great model of success there.

    It’s hilarious that you are positively citing Saudi immigration policy without the slightest clue what it is or how it works (not).

  177. Fisky

    Jupes’s problem: Muslims changing Australian culture. Jupes’s solution: become like Saudi Arabia.

    You just can’t make this stuff up. A rightwing parody troll who supports Saudi Arabia.

  178. Fisky

    No. That is just you spinning what I actually said. However as I’ve demonstrated above, it is not really that hard to stop Islamic immigration. It’s just a matter of will. Unfortunately bed wetters like you are running the show at the minute so we’ll just keep on letting them in. Too bad for Australia.

    It’s a matter of will!! You fucking idiot. You don’t know anything about standardised testing or the interaction of policy and applied procedure. You just think that making a loud public announcement “Noes to Muslims!11!!1″ will stop Muslims coming to Australia in the absence of an enforcement mechanism. Moronic beyond belief.

    We would still be receiving thousands of Muslim migrants every year under your absurd “proposal”, except minus tens of billions of dollars in two-way trade with a couple of our treaty allies, the loss of Australian assets in and the destruction of our security relationship with Indonesia, and global embarrassment everywhere.

  179. Fisky

    We would simply say unless there is independant verification that you have renounced islam eg membership of another faith verified by a representative of that faith, then bad luck

    And I’ll tell you this – we’ll be seeing a lot of Assyrian, Druze, Coptic, and Baha’i priests driving around in Bentleys within a few short years of that policy.

  180. Tel

    And I’ll tell you this – we’ll be seeing a lot of Assyrian, Druze, Coptic, and Baha’i priests driving around in Bentleys within a few short years of that policy.

    I’ve already explained this. Anyone who fails to knock down a six pack of VB and swim from one end of Bondi to the other while topless is un-Australian. Simple as bloody that.

    Go on, let’s see Saudi Arabia beat us at that then.

  181. Tel

    The screening test to become a Queenslander would be slightly different, you need to knock down a six pack of XXXX and sell a non-existent Gold Coast apartment to a young Japanese couple, but that’s just minor fine tuning.

  182. Notafan

    You are determined to see the worst in people who have been brutally oppressed but the very best in those that oppressed them aren’t you Fisky?
    Like I said if someone claimed to be a Afghan Hazara they have to know who their family is what village they come from, their neighbour the language, local slang the culture the customs the currency a myriad of details
    In any case I would be simply doing stuff like announcing that the humanitarian intake will be displaced Iraqi Christians and Yazidi who have no place else to go and maintain strict skilled migration criteria.

  183. Fisky

    I’ve already explained this. Anyone who fails to knock down a six pack of VB and swim from one end of Bondi to the other while topless is un-Australian. Simple as bloody that.

    That’s a very good idea! We should also post a copy of the Danish cartoons next to every visa application desk, and force all applicants to kiss a framed portrait of Salman Rushdie before they are allowed to proceed to the next stage.

  184. Fisky

    You are determined to see the worst in people who have been brutally oppressed but the very best in those that oppressed them aren’t you Fisky?

    No, I’m pointing out that incentives matter. If you create a procedure that places effective vetting authority in the hands of local Christian leaders, some (by no means most or all) of them are going to make a fortune out of it.

    In any case I would be simply doing stuff like announcing that the humanitarian intake will be displaced Iraqi Christians and Yazidi who have no place else to go and maintain strict skilled migration criteria.

    I would be doing that too.

  185. Fisky

    I should also mention – quite a few VC actually came over with the Vietnamese influx in the 1970s and 80s. Even in situations where we can isolate a group of displaced people in one go, there will be malcontents and imposters trying to elbow their way in.

    But having a standard procedure at our consulates that effectively has to prove a negative regarding individual religious affiliations is going to be impossible to enforce.

  186. Tel

    Fisky, I like the cut of your jib, boy.

    Now if realestate dot com can afford the real Arnie, the Joe Hockey can dip just a little further into my pockets and hire the real Salman Rushdie.

  187. Tel

    I would be doing that too.

    I do believe that Tony Abbott already said yes to that.

  188. Notafan

    I would only included being a known member of a particular religious and /or ethnic community as part of the criteria not the sole one.
    I know Viet Cong got through but there quite a few more tools available to immigration these days, of course some might still game the system.
    Nothing is going to be perfect.

  189. jupes

    Jews can and do live in Saudi, as registered Christians.

    But not as Jews. Saudi Arabia has a discriminatory immigration policy. We still trade with them. So does the rest of the world. My point is that a discriminatory immigration policy is not the end of the world.

    It’s a matter of will!! You fucking idiot.

    LOL. Keep your hair on.

    You don’t know anything about standardised testing or the interaction of policy and applied procedure.

    Oh dear. I’ve been outed as non-member of the public service. Obviously only public servants can comment on policy. Sorry about that.

    You just think that making a loud public announcement “Noes to Muslims!11!!1″ will stop Muslims coming to Australia in the absence of an enforcement mechanism.

    No actually. I just think that developing an enforcement mechanism isn’t as hard as public servant hand-wringers such as you make out.

    We would still be receiving thousands of Muslim migrants every year under your absurd “proposal”…

    Well yes we would if lefties such as yourself were in charge of implementing the policy. As I said, it’s just a matter of will.

    … except minus tens of billions of dollars in two-way trade with a couple of our treaty allies, the loss of Australian assets in and the destruction of our security relationship with Indonesia …

    Oh no, we don’t want to upset the Indons do we.

    … and global embarrassment everywhere.

    Yes far better to put Australian citizens in danger than be embarrassed. Where are you posting from Fisk, Rotherham?

  190. Rabz

    A rightwing parody troll who supports Saudi Arabia

    Hi, Abdullah!

  191. Fisky

    But not as Jews. Saudi Arabia has a discriminatory immigration policy. We still trade with them. So does the rest of the world. My point is that a discriminatory immigration policy is not the end of the world.

    OK, so are you advocating a ban on the practice of Islam in Australia or not? That’s the only way you will ever be able to enforce a total and explicit ban on Muslim immigration, just as Saudi Arabia bans the practice of every other religion. Ban Islam, yes or no? If not, then you’re pissing in the wind.

    Oh no, we don’t want to upset the Indons do we.

    No, properly phrased – “we don’t want to throw away a relationship that is currently working largely to our favour, on the basis of an unworkable pie-in-the-sky policy.”

    Yes far better to put Australian citizens in danger than be embarrassed.

    You haven’t even gotten to the realization yet that your policy won’t stop even Muslim immigration, but will expose Australia to far higher costs than the alternative policy.

  192. Piett

    Oh no, we don’t want to upset the Indons do we.

    No, we don’t want to upset them, nor the Malaysians. We should actually be trying for good political and trading relations with our neighbours.

    We haven’t always seen eye-to-eye with the Indons, but now that they’re democratic and East Timor is out of the way (a foreign policy triumph of the Howard government, that the left will never acknowledge) we should not do things to pointlessly offend them.

    Jupes, if you thought about it for 5 seconds, you’ll see that Fisk is on to the right solution — that would, in practice, actually give you everything you want. We declare we have a refugee intake of X per annum; we then declare that we will give priority to displaced Christians and Yazidis, given their particularly dire situation, and the number of those we will take happens to equal X.

    Problem solved, without giving offence to anyone.

  193. jupes

    We haven’t always seen eye-to-eye with the Indons, but now that they’re democratic and East Timor is out of the way (a foreign policy triumph of the Howard government, that the left will never acknowledge) we should not do things to pointlessly offend them.

    Of course not. But if there is a point to our actions, then their opinion is irrelevant.

    Jupes, if you thought about it for 5 seconds, you’ll see that Fisk is on to the right solution — that would, in practice, actually give you everything you want.

    1 … 2 … 3 … 4 … 5 … Yeah, nah. I agree that limiting the amount of Muslims by methods such as now (apparently) being implemented is a step in the right direction – less Islamic immigration is better than more Islamic immigration), but it does not give me “everything I want”.

    Islamic immigration has no redeeming features and if national security is any sort of priority then it should be stopped. The more Muslims the more attacks on Australians, the more attacks on Jews, the more attacks on Synagogues.

  194. jupes

    OK, so are you advocating a ban on the practice of Islam in Australia or not?

  195. jupes

    OK, so are you advocating a ban on the practice of Islam in Australia or not?

    Not yet.

    That’s the only way you will ever be able to enforce a total and explicit ban on Muslim immigration,

    No. It’s not.

    “we don’t want to throw away a relationship that is currently working largely to our favour, on the basis of an unworkable pie-in-the-sky policy.”

    Sounding just like the bed wetting public servant you obviously are. The relationship has previously survived armed conflict but a discriminatory immigration policy might cause offence so that’s obviously much worse.

    You haven’t even gotten to the realization yet that your policy won’t stop even Muslim immigration, but will expose Australia to far higher costs than the alternative policy.

    Far higher costs that Islamic terror attacks? What would that be … embarrassment?

  196. Fisky

    but it does not give me “everything I want”.

    Most people learn at some point after their early teens that there is no such thing as getting everything you want. There are always trade-offs and compromises but absolutely no free lunch.

    Right-wing internet trolls like their left-wing counterparts are kind of stuck in suspended emotional development however.

  197. Piett

    So the Muslim academics that are Sinc’s colleagues at RMIT, or the Muslim Malay students I’ve been taking postgrad courses with, or the Muslim accountant I met last year who was about to take up a position in Australia … should all be banned? Seriously?

    You think any of the above are likely to be street crawling in packs, hunting for 12 year old girls to abuse?

    What happened in Rotherham is a function of Islam, yes, but it’s more than that. It’s a result of the migration en masse of backward people from tribal areas. A Malaysian business lecturer isn’t going to be doing that kind of shit (or at least, no more than business lecturers in general do).

  198. Fisky

    No. It’s not.

    As a matter of fact it is necessary to ban Islam to achieve the goals you’ve set out. Because anyone can lie on an application form and then claim to have converted to any religion they want once they’re in. Even you managed to work this out yourself a few weeks ago until the unlearning device kicked in and deleted that valuable data.

    The relationship has previously survived armed conflict but a discriminatory immigration policy might cause offence so that’s obviously much worse.

    You haven’t got the faintest idea what you are talking about. Australia’s involvement with Indonesia in the Sukarno era was miniscule compared to the level of business and security cooperation we have now. Yes, if we came out and stopped issuing visas to people based a religious test, all security cooperation with Indonesia would be finished, and Australian assets and people would face a higher security risk, not a lower one.

    Far higher costs that Islamic terror attacks? What would that be … embarrassment?

    You still haven’t got it through your thick skull that thousands of Muslims will continue to enter Australia every year under your own proposal. It will have no positive effect on the risk of terror at all, but it will cause the loss of tens of billions worth of trade, and fuck knows how much capital already laid down.

  199. jupes

    So the Muslim academics that are Sinc’s colleagues at RMIT, or the Muslim Malay students I’ve been taking postgrad courses with, or the Muslim accountant I met last year who was about to take up a position in Australia … should all be banned?

    … from immigrating – yes.

    You think any of the above are likely to be street crawling in packs, hunting for 12 year old girls to abuse?

    I have no idea. Do you?

    What happened in Rotherham is a function of Islam, yes …

    This contradicts your point above. And you’re still cool with more Muslims living here? Wow.

    … It’s a result of the migration en masse of backward people from tribal areas.

    Tribal societies are mini totalitarian societies and have no place in civilized societies. Australia should not accept any tribal immigrants. The only thing worse that a tribe is an Islamic tribe.

    A Malaysian business lecturer isn’t going to be doing that kind of shit (or at least, no more than business lecturers in general do).

    You know this how? This I do know: The more Muslims the more attacks on Jews and Synagogues. So called moderate Muslims provide cover for terrorists. Every single Muslim believes that Mohammad lived the perfect life. Mohammad’s life included murder, child marriage, polygamy and the stoning of adultery.

  200. Piett

    … from immigrating – yes.

    So you’re OK with them entering on business or student or tourist or temporary work visas, as long as they don’t get citizenship? But this doesn’t make any sense. If they’re all potential terrorists and/or child molesters, then you don’t want any of them entering the country for any reason.

    A businessman from KL who wants to discuss a trade deal should be banned, under your principles, because he must be presumed to support “attacks on Jews and Synagogues”, terrorism, and “murder, child marriage, polygamy and the stoning of adultery [sic]“.

  201. Tel

    Another paragraph everyone should read:

    I’m in no doubt that Rotherham is not an isolated case, and the same kind of abuse is happening right now in towns and cities across the country. As shocking as the Rotherham report is, the fallout out from this type of abuse and the long-term social consequences are even more horrifying.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11066244/Rotherham-is-not-an-isolated-incident.html

  202. Notafan

    No doubt this a problem right across the UK, there was a not dissimilar gang rape case reported in Paris a couple of years ago with mention of other similar cases in France.
    Whats the bet more European countries with muslim minorities start admitting they have similar issues?

  203. Notafan

    School is pointless for the kids that are being groomed if they have no prospect of work, no wonder they are vulnerable.
    Instead of the money spent on council and welfare what about lowering business taxes and letting people find work?
    instead of crapping on about the post industrial north how about getting businesses in that will employ people?

  204. Aristogeiton

    Fisky
    #1435001, posted on August 31, 2014 at 8:08 pm
    but it does not give me “everything I want”.

    Most people learn at some point after their early teens that there is no such thing as getting everything you want. There are always trade-offs and compromises but absolutely no free lunch.

    Right-wing internet trolls like their left-wing counterparts are kind of stuck in suspended emotional development however.

    “For most there is what Conrad called the ‘shadow line’, which when we pass it, discloses a solid world of things, each with its fixed shape, each with its own point of balance, each with its price, a world of fact, not poetic image, in what we have spent on one thing we cannot spend on another; a world inhabited by others besides ourselves who cannot be reduced to mere reflections of our own emotions. And coming to be at home in this commonplace world qualifies us (as no knowledge of ‘political science’ can ever qualify us), if we are so inclined and have nothing better to think about, to engage in which the man of conservative disposition understands to be political activity.”
    (Michael Oakeshott, On Being a Conservative)

  205. notafan

    Open threats against Denmark
    IS seems to have a very significant number of foreign fighters 500 plus from the UK hundreds more from France, Denmark, Canada ,Germany the US, Spain Italy etc but the west should let these reavers run amok in Iraq
    Why?

    Nothing to worry about those Aussie jihadists won’t do anything at ‘home’

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